July 8, 2025 • 52 mins
S3 E23 - Pam Moore - Forgetting and Remembering - may be the whole purpose of life. Pam Moore is an OT, an intuitive eating coach, comedian and writer. This episode talks about Bells Palsy, parenting, body Image, and the Middle East just to name a few.
Reach out to Nancy Norton
Reach out to Pam Moore
Bells Palsy resource:
Pam's writing and comedy:
https://mamalode.com/story/postpartum/face-value/
https://longreads.com/2017/07/25/twelve-ways-of-looking-at-bells-palsy/
https://pammoore.substack.com/p/reflections-on-anti-jewish-terrorism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=588Mi1Thv8M
Other resources about topics mentioned;
https://breslov.org/breslov-kabbalah-the-shattering-of-the-vessels/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
You're listening to Trauma D, the podcast that helps you take
your pain and play with it. I'm Nancy Norton, I am a
comedian. I'm a trauma survivor, also a
registered nurse, haven't workedas a nurse in a while, but it's
still in me to want to help healmyself and others.
And I'm doing that with humor now, and I talk a lot about the
(00:26):
power of humor. This week.
I have a wonderful guest. She is a gosh, she does so many
things. She's a comedian, she's a
writer. She's an intuitive eating coach.
What is the term? When you when you don't see
yourself accurately like your friend.
Oh, that's dysmorphia. Body dysmorphia.
Oh, but what is it when you justdon't like how you look?
(00:47):
Body dissatisfaction. Oh, being a woman, I think
that's what you call that. That's succinct.
If you want to come see a comedyshow, you know where to find me.
nancynorton.tv. That's nancynorton.tv.
Like television and then click on upcoming shows.
(01:08):
I will tell you some of the dates right now.
I'll be in Fort Collins, Co July13th and then Kearney, NE July
14th, Hays, KS July 15th, the Denver Comedy Underground July
19th, and then Saget Casino up above, like close to Canada,
(01:29):
above Seattle, between Seattle and Canada and that's August 8th
and 9th. Yeah, you can just go to
nancynorton.tv. Look at my upcoming shows.
You know the drill. Ah, let's stop talking.
Let's get on with this episode. We talk about so many things,
body dysmorphia, Bell's palsy, parenting the Middle East.
I we cover a lot, so I know you're going to enjoy this
(01:51):
episode. I'll see you on the other side.
Welcome to Traumedy. My guest this week is a writer,
a comedian, and a gravel cyclist.
Please welcome Pam. Moore, Nancy, thank you so much
(02:11):
for having me. I'm pumped to be on.
Traumedy yay I'm glad it worked out This is so cool so this was
like a serendipity. We were at a show in South
Boulder, a comedy show, and thank you for coming out and
reminding me. We just we worked together
within the last year or so and I'm and you are I'm just Oh my
(02:32):
gosh, my memory and also out of context.
I have to it takes my Rolodex a while.
I. Relate to that.
So I so appreciated you going. It's Pam Pam Moore.
We work together all good. And I'm wearing my mom's
unhinged shirt that is a little small, but I am grateful for
mom's Unhinged. I'm glad it's brought a lot of
us together. Andrea Sodigren, who is the
(02:54):
producer, founder, comedian MomsUnhinged master guru.
She has brought a lot of us together and her vision she's
shared with me is to raise like 50 comedians, you know, female
comedians up into, you know, doing shows.
So it's still the arc is still growing and although I know she
(03:19):
had to cut back her roster a little bit in the short term,
but I I have a sense it's going to expand again.
I. Hope it will.
And I honestly, even if I never get to work with Moms Unhinged
again, which I hope I do, even if I don't like it brought me to
you. It brought it gave me.
Like, I'm still early in my comedy career.
Yeah, but it was even earlier when I worked with Moms Unhinged
and it gave me a ton of confidence, a lot of
(03:40):
opportunities I wouldn't have had.
And I feel like it kind of like turbocharged me.
But I didn't mean to bring up like, I'm wearing Mom's unhinged
in your face, you know, like I didn't.
I just thought I was just thinking we bonded there and I
was like, yay, Mom's unhinged. Mainly because my traumedy shirt
was dirty. OK, I was going to put on my
(04:00):
traumedy hat to cover my hair, but I forgot.
Oh my God. Well, anyway, you know, I was
showing you my kind of personal painting in my meditation space
and it's a path through the woods and it's just like, you
know, there's like twists and turns and it can be kind of
confusing. But I always say all roads lead
to you. And it's like trusting our path.
It's hard because there's grief work that we have to do to let
(04:22):
go. I do love those shows and I do
love bringing high frequency humor to moms who are, you know,
raising the next generation likeyou are.
You're a mom. I'm a mom and you just told me
how old are your kids? They.
Are 11 and 13 two girls? And you're doing all this create
2 girls and they're going Oh my gosh.
And going into adolescence or they're in.
Adolescence my 13 year old's been in adolescence since
(04:44):
preschool she's had. Attitude that time out didn't
work, did it, Mama? God, no, it's humbling, isn't it
The most humbling thing? And they're so smart.
And the. Word.
That's the word humbling. Well, I love that you wanted to
drink the sweet and spicy tea because it's a, it was a fond
(05:04):
memory being pregnant and that'swhat you drank.
And I mean your, your, your journey into parenting, I'm
guessing is, I mean it's something you wanted.
Oh yes, it was planned. It was planned both times, yes.
And but we never know. Sometimes you have to laugh at
ourselves. Like what did we sign up?
You know, it's funny, it was wanted, but sort of like, how do
(05:26):
I say this? Let's see, when I he was on the
radar in general, like, yeah, I'm probably gonna have a kid.
And then as I got to my late 20sand I didn't have a partner and
had never had a serious partner,I was like, shoot, I better give
up on that dream because I don'twant to have this dream that
like I may not be able to fulfill because I did not think
I wanted to be a single parent. I don't think I would be good.
I'm I have a short fuse and I was just like, there's been so
(05:49):
many. I would.
I cannot relate to that at all as I was going off on people
talking at that comedy show lastnight.
But anyway, so you know that about yourself.
But then I'm so I was sort of ambivalent about the whole
thing. Then I meet my husband and right
away like it we, it was a serious connection right off the
bat and right immediately, like he was like, do you not want to
(06:11):
see other people? I don't want to see other
people. And I was like, I don't want to
see other people, But you shouldknow that I'm not sure if I want
kids, but if we do, like, are you on board to raise them
Jewish? And he was like, I don't know
what that means, but I don't think it's a deal breaker.
And I was like, cool, because I was like, I'm 29, I'm not
getting younger. If that's a deal breaker, then
like I should know now. So now Fast forward.
He's on board for the Jewish kids.
But I'm like, Oh my God, our life is pretty good.
(06:34):
Do I really want to get up and have a baby?
So. How many years were you together
before you started your family? Not that long.
We met in 2008, we got married in 2010 and our first kid was
born in 2012, so. But that's a nice time to get.
I mean, you had a what? So four years to.
Get to him well enough. Yes, I think that sounds lovely
it. Was love, but I was really
(06:55):
ambivalent. Like he was all systems go and I
was like, OK, let's do it. And then when I found out I was
pregnant, I had a lot of ambivalence.
The first time I was like, Oh myGod, like this is what I wanted.
But holy shit, I'm terrified of messing up.
You know, I thought we had a good life and I and I think we
have a good life now. It's it's richer.
Now, but it's a definite different life and you do I
(07:17):
think that's wise to know like it's the end of an era.
I just think it's wise to like grieve and say this, you know,
and they always say that, right with every even promotion at
work, you got to grieve the old job or with the new house.
But but but but so you were wiseto like Oh boy, this is now a
new. But I also think, you know, it's
funny, like having kids has forced me to heal parts of
(07:39):
myself that I did not know he needed healing.
I don't think I would have discovered these wounds without
having the experience of being aparent.
They're such teachers, aren't they?
I mean, and the stuff that comesup or seeing like one, well,
I've overcompensated in a lot ofways for my childhood where I
see I over like empowered my sonin some ways, like you know, all
(08:05):
about your feelings. Tell me about your feelings.
How are you? And you know, he has no need.
He's he's he loves to play music, compose music, but no
need to be in front of an audience.
He's like, I don't need attention from strangers, you
know, like I do. But but you obviously, if you
have a short fuse, I'm you know,this is me projecting, but I
always think, you know, what is that trauma about?
(08:26):
You know, what is it that clicksus over, like triggers us into
kind of ragey? Is that am I?
Am I implying too? Much Nope.
That's what it is. It is a click over into quick
rage. And what is the trauma?
I'm not sure. I will say it's what I observed.
I wonder if some of it is just this like chronic feeling of
like not being seen, not being heard and so it can easily be
(08:49):
triggered. Like if one of my kids isn't
listening to me for example, I like freak out.
Yep, I definitely have. As you saw last night, I was
even saying it out loud. This is one of my triggers, not
feeling heard. This is why I have a microphone
on a speaker. And then when I even have all
this amp amplification and stillthose people that turn their
(09:10):
back and stayed that way, I mean, it was a bar, but it was
supposed to be a comedy night. And people had paid money to
come see a comedy show. And I was, you know, a lot of
stuff was going on. And I actually did some
psychedelic trauma therapy aboutthat and what I mean, I did EMDR
and brain spotting. Have you done any trauma therapy
at all? Not specifically like I have
(09:30):
been in therapy and we I really enjoyed internal families,
internal family systems or partswork.
And I have done psychedelics, not like under the supervision
of a professional just like myself, but it was very
therapeutic and I hope it will continue to be.
Yes, and I mean it's all set andsetting in tension I guess too.
When you thought of coming on Trauma D Yeah.
(09:51):
Was there something that you thought I really need to share
this story because, you know, the theme is to help heal
ourselves and others like Co healing experience. peer-to-peer
sharing. Here's how I've gotten through
some stuff. And I know you're an artist.
You have a lot of expressions, comedy, art, writing.
Yeah, when I first, I was just listening to Traumedy because
I'm like, oh, you had on Elena McMillan, who I like, and I was
(10:14):
like, I want to get to know her better.
Like until I can go for coffee with Elena, I can listen to
Traumedy and then I can't remember who else I listen to.
I Elena stuck out because I knowher.
And I thought, you know, what I think might be useful to
listeners would be my experienceof having had Bell's Palsy right
after my second child was born. You know what that is?
(10:34):
For listeners who don't know what it is, it is when half of
your face becomes spontaneously paralyzed.
It is much more likely. It's not common, but it's way
more likely to happen actually postpartum or in the third
trimester of pregnancy. And mine happened after my
second child was born. She was ten days old.
So all of a sudden half of my face is paralyzed.
(10:55):
So I'll give you the quick, yeah, quick and dirty.
And then you can come back and ask me any, like, follow up
questions. OK.
Basically, I had this terrible experience with facial
paralysis. And most people, it will heal
spontaneously within a week, a month, six months maybe.
Mine took a while. It was a good six months before
things were back to normal. But then on like the six month
(11:15):
anniversary, I had a major relapse.
Come to find out only in the last like couple of years I was
working with somebody new to tryto rehab it.
She said you didn't actually have a relapse.
What happens is the nerves as they're growing back, they can
kind of grow back wrong. And I have something called
Synchonesis. So my face was doing all these
(11:35):
weird things where like for example, I would shut my eyes
and it affected the right hand side of my face.
I'd shut my eyes and my whole face would like, pull to the
right where I would feel like a squeezy.
Imagine like a rubber band on your eyeball.
That's what it felt like, especially when I was tired.
The eye gets really squinty whenI smile.
That was the biggest thing. I hated pictures.
(11:56):
I especially hated selfies. I could not stand to like, watch
myself in a video. And so all this is happening
when I and I have the second baby.
I have like a toddler and a newborn and everything was Oh,
and it was a difficult. She was a difficult baby.
I later found out that she had some food allergies.
And once we kind of changed her diet, she seemed better.
(12:16):
But she was. I thought she was like a grouchy
baby. She is the happiest person in
the world. We just didn't know.
Yeah, she had a stomach ache herwhole life until she was like 1.
And she had eczema and she was abad sleeper and itchy, itchy.
My older child. There's nothing worse than itch,
honestly. No, we, the older one, we would
try to sleep train her and it didn't work that great, but at
(12:37):
least you could. I'd walk away and be like, OK,
you're crying, but I know you'refine.
The little one would cry and you'd walk in the room and you
know they're so little and they've huge heads and her hands
couldn't even reach her head andshe'd be trying to scratch
herself. Oh yeah, that's right it.
Was so sad they. Can't reach.
Yeah, and it was just like, you couldn't let her cry it out.
She was suffering. And so I did not.
(12:58):
This kid did not sleep through the night until she was like 17
months old. So you really understand the
sleep deprivation? I did not sleep a whole night
until the kid was 17 months old.The breastfeeding was going very
poorly. But I, I don't know why I was so
committed to it. Looking back, I'm like, what the
hell. But I was very committed to the
breastfeeding. It was like a nightmare, like.
Well, you wanted to give her every advantage.
I mean, breastfeeding is like a great gift.
(13:19):
To it and I'm lazy and so I think formula.
Is a lot of work. I don't see you.
I can tell you're not lazy. You got high energy.
Formula is a lot of work. I'm not, I don't want to do all
these dishes, so I just. Anyways, it was a shitty year.
And on top of it, you know, withthis facial paralysis, I felt a
lot of. So I was ashamed of my
appearance, but I was also feeling very ashamed of feeling
(13:42):
ashamed. I was like, I'm really vain.
I'm a locust. Yeah, right.
Yeah, it's hard. Like I was just telling you.
The reason I don't video is because I've got this divergent
eye and I it really distracts. Me.
You know, when you said that, that was the first thing I
thought it was like, oh, I know what that's like.
I know in pictures when we do selfies, I can sort of think
(14:02):
about it and try to pull it in. I noticed we were talking about
John Novasad, who has an just a bookmark here real quick.
But just I definitely relate to like facial, you know, what is
it? Bilateral asymmetry.
Asymmetry. That's the word I'm looking for.
And you know, eyes the window tothe soul, like my, is my soul
(14:24):
fucked up? Is that, you know, do I have two
souls? What's going on?
Right. I felt like, yeah, I have.
I have a black soul, so to speak.
I felt like I had a dark soul. I felt like I am vain.
And my kids, you know, you know,kids are very sensing.
They don't, you know, kids know everything, right?
So I was like, fuck, they're little.
They know. They know I'm a vain asshole.
And Oh my God, I'm raising girls.
(14:46):
I'm raising them to be just as vain as I am.
Like I'm fucking everything up and I'm in these Facebook groups
for people with Bell's palsy andpeople are coming in these
groups. Like I have headaches.
I have to tape my eye shut at night because it won't shut on
its own. I have tinnitus.
I have all these and I'm like, Idon't have any of these physical
symptoms. Like I don't have pain.
I had discomfort and have no pain.
(15:07):
So then I'm also like, what am Icomplaining about?
Like I don't have real problems.But it felt.
And so I tried, you name it, I tried it.
And then I sort of gave up for awhile.
And then about two years ago, I just, I learned about this new
treatment and I called the placewhere they do it and I it's in
Maryland. And I was like, does anyone in
Denver do this? And they were like, no, we're
(15:27):
kind of creating it as we go. We're working on a training, but
we do it here in Maryland. But we do telehealth.
Do you want to try telehealth? And I was like, I'll try it.
And I can't explain how helpful it has been.
I went out there once and the physical therapist put like
needles in my fascia of my face,which was painful but helpful.
And so it's interesting too, cuzin a way it's been all this time
(15:52):
and I wanna be like, I've accepted it, but I haven't
accepted it cuz I'm seeing this PT now we're down to about once
a month cuz I'm getting a lot better.
And but she had me getting Botoxin because that helps in the
eyeball. Not exactly eyeball, but like.
Occipital muscles, Yeah, like here.
Yeah, here and here for your listeners, you can.
(16:13):
OK, Yeah, yeah, Top of the eye, side of the eye, right below the
eye. Yeah.
Where those muscles are, Yeah, But where the nerves enter those
muscles? I guess so.
I wonder. I guess so I was.
Doing you might look at an anatomy book.
I was doing that like quarterly for a while and I was like, am I
gonna have to do this for the rest of my life?
You know, because Botox is not apermanent solution to anything
you have to redo. And then but then it got better
(16:34):
on its own. The last time I got the Botox
was like January. And then I'm like, wow, things
have gotten better. I mean, I do my exercise, I
said. Your eyes look even to me.
Yeah, they're not, but they're way better.
They're like, it's good. I'm like, hey, if I never saw my
PT again, I actually have like fallen in love with her.
And I'm like, I can never get good enough to not see you
anymore because I love you. You're my best friend.
But like. Is she like your rescuer where
you have like, a little crush onyour rescuer?
(16:56):
Yeah. She's a little, you know what,
She's kind of maternal to me. She's like, she's not quite my
mom's age. Her kids are probably like 30,
but she's she's motherly. She's very sweet.
I mean, I love my own mother. No shade to my no shade like
Jodi is awesome. Shout out to Jodi Barth.
So is she a local physical? Therapy.
No, this is my telehealth personin.
Maryland, she's in Maryland, She's that's the one that.
(17:17):
She's my zoom mommy. That's a fun term.
But anyway, so back to the trauma.
So the trauma is the Bell's Palsy, but the trauma D is I
have over the years. It's funny, like my perspective
on the whole thing has changed like a year out and I'm a
writer. So like a year out from it, I
wrote a personal essay about it and it got published and I was
(17:38):
like, wow, that was like really healing to put that out there
and to see how far I've come in a year.
But then like 3 or 4 years laterI wrote another personal essay
about it and I was like, wow, this is not the essay I would
have written three years. Ago, there's been growth.
Yeah. And then and what was wild, that
was a deeply, deeply personal and I submitted it to a contest
and I won the contest. And then I got to like read part
(18:01):
of the essay at a bookstore as like part of the thing.
And I was like, shit, people aregoing to hear me read this in
person. This is like so personal.
And but it was just met with like so much support and so much
so many people came kind of cameout of the woodwork to say, oh,
this happened to me two. And then a little bit after that
essay came out, Angelina Jolie announced that she had Belle's
(18:24):
palsy. So then like, People magazine
interviewed me about it because my essay had come out like that
same week. So this this sounds like a high
profile like contest. I mean, People magazine saw it.
These were separate first it gotpublished in long Reads and then
I think six months later I won the I submitted that to the
Colorado Authors League like essay contest.
So this was like 2017, and then I started stand up comedy like
(18:47):
in the fall of 2023. And like last summer, about a
year ago, I was like, you know, what's kind of funny actually is
Bell's policy. Like half of your face doing one
thing and half of your face doing the other thing.
And you know, there's a lot of humor.
And so I wrote some jokes about it.
I have a bit about Bell's palsy,and it has been the
juxtaposition. Unbelievably healing to be able
(19:09):
to laugh about it like that feels like it's such a gift.
Oh, I love it. Is there anything like, and I
know it's like tell me a joke, but is there anything I should
have said? If you want, I don't know if you
have anything on the phone or anything you want, if you want
to plug in a bit or do you want to say anymore about it?
Or do you want to just allude tothe fact that there's humor out
there about? It you know what we can do what
after we get out done with the interview I can e-mail you.
(19:32):
I have a clip of just like 5 minutes of me doing Bell's palsy
humor if you want to throw that in the show notes if people want
to check me out on YouTube telling.
OK, that's what I'll do Bell's palsy.
So check the show notes and alsomay I have a link to your to
your essay? So that's a nice and that'll be
a nice juxtaposition because they'll be this like deep dive
of the vulnerable. Like, oh gosh, this was how it
(19:52):
really challenged me. And here's how I make fun of it.
Oh, this is perfect comedy. Yeah.
Oh, and I forgot about another thing too.
Like over the years, I've just. I've made a lot of art about it.
Like yeah, first there was the essay in it was called Mamalode.
Then there was the long reads. Then there's the Listen to Your
Mother show. So I've Co produced it different
years. There was one year that I was
selected to be in the cast that I wasn't, like on the leadership
(20:14):
team. And I submitted an essay about,
again, Bell's palsy, but a different perspective.
It was like I was recording a vlog and like, we were talking
about, like, seeing yourself on video can be difficult.
And I'm in the middle of it and I'm like, hating everything
about myself. And I paused it because my kid
walked in the room and she was 9at the time, my older kid.
And she walked in and she saw the paused image on the screen.
(20:36):
And she goes, that's such a goodpicture of you.
It really shows your Bell's Palsy, which could have been an
insult, but I could see what shemeant was it's so you.
Yeah, that's. All she and she embraced your.
Whole self and I was like, oh, this is what it's about.
This is about like accepting everything and the beauty not
(20:57):
being what we think of as perfect or striving to be
perfect. It's just like, she just loves
me as I am because she's my kid,you know?
And I'm just like, Oh my God. Isn't it interesting?
Like I mean, my friend and I, wejust went to Chatfield Reservoir
2 days ago and I've gained like 10 lbs this year and I'm really
(21:18):
struggling with, that's been my,you know, I've always had, I've
been called ugly like for, you know, a lot, you know.
So I'm like, oh, I'm ugly, but I'm fit, you know, a lot.
Well, I mean, well, like in highschool or like, you know, when
kids are just like. Oh, just kids being ditched.
Yeah, but it gets you're, you know, like, I feel like I want
to cry like this is my inner child is like got a resource.
(21:42):
But yeah, so but my fitness has been my way to like I'm fit, you
know, like, and now I'm getting like, it's interesting.
Like I put this shirt on for thefirst time.
I'm like, oh, it's a little small now and I had to just bump
up my pants. And so we went to the to the res
and I had just bought some new boy surf shorts to cover with
(22:05):
Cellulite and also just to fit. And she has gained 50 lbs And
she said, I think, and we're both in a recovery program.
Let me just say that because she's like, I think higher power
is helping me like this is for me to like body acceptance.
And she goes, I look back at pictures and I was, I felt like
(22:25):
I didn't like my stomach and I was so skinny.
And I thought, oh, I did not like my body 50 lbs ago.
And I'm looking back at that. And then at what point?
What point, you know, do we justsay I love myself right now?
I yeah. I feel a little choked up.
I have to take a drink. Yeah, to a parasympathetic
nervous system reset when because my inner child is really
(22:46):
wounded about feeling disfiguredand I will drop in and cry a
little bit here and there, but think about like so grateful
that you had this symmetrical, beautiful face.
And then one day it changed and like people have strokes.
Like, you heard Lewis last nighttalking about having a so this
is going, this is all tying backinto all of a sudden having a
(23:06):
face that isn't like, this isn'twho I am.
And then my friend who is alwayslike, she's an athlete, and all
of a sudden she gained weight. And she's like, I want to tell,
like, prospective men I want to date.
Like, oh, by the way, I'm reallya skinny person.
This is just weight gain. This isn't me.
Yeah. We are over identifying with our
bodies. Exactly.
(23:27):
I forgot to mention before you were like, who are you?
What do I do? How do I introduce you?
I'm also an intuitive eating coach, which is a lot about
body. It's about eating, but it's also
about body image and accepting ourselves.
And it's like, I don't think thegoal is to, especially when it
comes to eating and food and body image and all that.
It's hard. It's a lot of unlearning.
The goal I tell my clients is like, you don't need to love
(23:50):
your body every minute. That's impossible in this
culture. It's not going to happen.
I mean, if you do great, great. But like, that's too lofty of a
goal. Instead, what I tell people, and
this is what's been true for me,is if you have a negative
thought about your body, you don't have to spiral like the
gap in between feeling bad and going down the shame spiral and
(24:15):
deciding, OK, I'm only eating salads and I'm only this and I'm
I'm going to, I'm going to fit into these jeans, all of that.
You kind of shorten the gap. It's like the chasm between I
felt good and then I weighed myself and now I feel shitty.
Does it ruin the next minute or does it ruin the next day or
week? We we hopefully get it down to
like maybe it only ruins 25 minutes or you know what I mean?
(24:36):
It's like, yeah, you just, you can let it go a little bit
easier. Like where I used to be like, oh
shit, I went on vacation, I gained weight.
Now I'm going to eat salads. And then five days later I was
great with the salads and I'm binging because all I ate was
salads for five days. I don't do that anymore.
I don't look at myself and go, Igained 5 lbs on vacation and I
feel like a supermodel. No, but what I'll do instead is
(24:57):
go, OK, you know what? I'm going to put on different
pants and move on. And that's the end of it.
Just going to. Wear looser pants.
I'm. Going to wear looser pants.
I love that. I mean, that's a gift.
There's so many things I want togo back to Bells Palsy before we
move on to food. I love this.
I want to talk more about this body image stuff because I think
this is what this episode is really going to be about.
And but also Bells Palsy. So Miriam Moreno, I don't know
(25:19):
if you've met her. I know her okay, She probably.
Doesn't know me, but yeah, I think she's very funny.
I know she is. She's and they and they have a
talk show, she and her husband, Jacob Rupp, and they were guests
a few weeks ago, but they have atalk show I did recently called
Goodnight Denver. So they're, they're like, we all
wanted to get on the late night talk show.
So she's like, like, I'm just doing, I'm making my own.
I love that. So it's really cool.
And she has Bells Palsy right now.
(25:42):
Yeah, she just, and she got it from a dental episode where they
numbed her and I guess she read that it can be a side effect of
a trauma to a nerve during dental and it can set off this
whole inflammatory thing. And and so she was, and she went
ahead and taped that show with half her face blinking.
(26:03):
I mean, her talking like she's under anesthesia, you know,
she's doing, she was talking a little like that.
I mean, but she she and she was self, she was like, do I, Nancy,
I she sent me a message. I don't, I'm not sure.
It was getting better. Now it's getting worse and like,
I'll show you this reel that sheposted that's so funny because
one eye is doing the one thing and blinking.
(26:24):
And I mean, it's funny because the way she did her traumedy
around it, she goes, my my face is messed up, I guess.
And then she does this thing, like, where you could never do
that consciously. Yeah, like you cannot the way,
you know, keeping the way. Like if you blink, you don't.
It's a different. That's the thing about Bell's
palsy, Bell's palsy rehab and everything.
It's like, it's not like your face is not like other muscles,
(26:44):
you know, It's not like, oh, I have a bad wrist I have to do.
These. Yeah, the cranial nerves.
Yeah. And you know, gosh, I had a
well, I got. That's a HIPAA violation.
Probably can't talk about that. All right.
I was just thinking about a pagethat I had that had had a stroke
as an infant and lost a lot of his brain.
And so his cranial nerves rewired differently so that
different things to different things.
(27:05):
I mean, the cranial nerve, it isfascinating, isn't it?
And what we're learning and I did go to vision therapy.
So there is a part of me that inin my 50s, I read a book called
Fixing My Gaze. So there's all this stuff about
neuroplasticity now and regrowing and do we accept it or
do we, you know, like it takes 20 minutes a day for me to do
(27:27):
eye exercises to draw my eye in.And at one point I got too busy
and I stopped doing it. And then I never went back to
it. And then with doom scrolling or
whatever with phones, my eye just it just pushed way out
again. Sigh.
Anyway, so Bell's palsy what that we're going to put links in
the show notes about it, just what it is.
(27:49):
And maybe the Should I put a link to the Maryland people?
Yeah, I'll, I'll share that withyou.
And and because anyone you know,when you hashtag stuff, people
are looking. And they might find, I think it
would be awesome if people find it's, I think it's called the
facial nerve recovery center or facial.
I'll send you a link. These people are the, my PT is
(28:10):
like a magician. The fact that like she's helped
me after like 10 years, it's like 10 years post when I
finally found her. And I, it's wild because I am 46
now and I'm like, I am the only 46 year old woman who is not
getting like Botox, fillers, etcetera.
That probably feels better abouther face than she did 10 years
ago. This is the best thing that can
(28:30):
happen to me. That's a really fun perspective.
Yeah. You know, And my friend Christy
Buckley, who has cerebral palsy,which is a permanent condition.
I shouldn't say permanent. I'll put it in quotes because I
believe in miracles. But so far, so far, we haven't
seen that being recovered from. But she she's always, she does
(28:51):
like a kind of jokes about aging.
Like people like you live long enough, you're going to get
where I've, you know, like you're going to need a Walker
here and there. You're going to, you know,
you're going to have a disability.
So she's like, I'm ahead of the curve.
You know, I'm already funny. Yeah, I'm already, you know, I
know how to do this. And I thought, you know, and
aging is just another another thing like I'm 64 now and thank
(29:12):
you. Please let there be Medicare and
Social Security. All right, So I'm 64 and it is
just like, hey, Nance, this is the downhill side.
I mean, we are aging and it is interesting body pop.
So let's get back to this body. What is it?
Dysmorphia? What is it?
Called body dysmorphia. But what is?
What is the term? When you when you don't see
(29:34):
yourself accurately like your friend.
That's. Body dysmorphia.
But what is it when you just don't like how you look?
Body dissatisfaction. Being a woman, I think that's
what you call that. That's succinct 60.
Percent of people suffer from that, Nancy. 50% roughly XX
(29:58):
chromosomes. But my friend and I were saying
yesterday, it's like, OK or the other, you know what you and I
are going to say too is like, OK, wait, how do we really like
I have not made peace with it. I clearly have not made peace
with my eye and I have not made peace with my jowls and creepy
neck at this point. But it's only going to get, I'm
(30:20):
only, you know, going to age more.
I don't know. The only thing I can say is I do
share with people that I did psychedelic therapy.
I had to go, I had to go choose the restroom.
And I saw my soul in the mirror that transcended everything.
And I didn't know I had such a beautiful light.
I was thinking about your soul that's inside all this.
(30:41):
And I think that's where it's at.
Like I how do we make peace? I'm not sure totally.
I think it's different for everyperson.
And that's part of what I try tohelp people with in my coaching
practice. But like that's where it's at is
understanding that your soul, like our bodies are temporary
and they're like a vessel for this energy and the soul.
(31:01):
And they're like a they're really just a vehicle that where
we store our gifts temporarily. And I think it's just a matter
of like, we forget because we look in the mirror and we have
all these messages that we've been told since we were born
about how we're supposed to be in the world and what our value
is. And we and we forget that.
Like it's not about that. It's about like what you did
(31:23):
last night on the stage and you created the like the beautiful
energy and you gave people the gift of laughter.
That's where it's at. Nobody gives a shit what you
look like when you're raising the frequency of the room.
And so I think it's just coming back to that.
It's like a forgetting and a remembering and trying to just
keep remembering. It's like it's OK to forget.
We all do. Can I be with that for a minute?
I love that. I love what you just did.
(31:44):
And you gestured towards me and back and they're like the
forgetting and the remembering. I got to say that's
exhilarating. And maybe this is the whole
point of our earth experience. Is this duality and this over
identifying with the body. And then like, is this the joy
of returning to spirit? Like is this the joy of life?
My ex and I was showing you one of her paintings and she's very
(32:06):
spiritual and she said, Nancy, Ialways I just want to live in
the light all the time. And I said, oh, you know what?
I love the change of seasons. I love the night and the light.
And I go, I like looking at lifethrough a comb, you know, like
the light, the dark, you know, that exhilaration.
And so when you did this motion,I felt that exhilaration.
And maybe that's what it's all about.
(32:26):
And you know. Is the forgetting and the Marine
I? Forget it.
And here's something interestingabout that.
I've been like reading a lot more and getting really
interested in Kabbalah, which isJewish mysticism.
And there's a lot of wisdom in there.
And I might be butchering this. I'm not like an expert, but what
I have learned is that at the beginning of like this sacred
(32:46):
text, like there were these vessels and God filled them with
the brightest light and they broke because they could not
contain the light. It was too bright and they were
not strong enough. Now we figure God, God's God,
right? So God must have known.
God wasn't like, oh shit, right.God knew, God must have known,
right? You know, So but that.
(33:07):
But there's this Jewish tradition called tikkun olam,
which is repairing the world. It's basically, you know, social
justice, being kind, whatever. That's how we repair what is
broken by doing the best you canto be of service and help.
And so, and when you think so that's sort of, if you think of
that as the foundation of everything of OK, there was this
beautiful light. It was too much.
(33:27):
It broke the vessels. Now they need to repair.
But that was sort of God's plan all along, right?
That gives me when I think aboutthat and I think about all the
like social ills between, you know, all of the unrest and the
sadness and the pain and the everything that's going on right
now and, you know, always has been and maybe always will be.
And then also like our personal issues of like I look fat, like
(33:50):
all of these things kind of comeback to and even like fighting
with my partner, fighting with my children.
It's always OK, But that's what life is about.
Something breaks and you fix it like a breaks and you've.
Yeah, like in my, you know, likea, my therapist will say, you
know, because I, well, I do a lot of confessing about like
(34:10):
here's a bad parenting moment and I made amends and I, I mean,
I'm trying to do a living amends, which is to not do those
too often. But then she's like, but you
know, the fact that you make repairs and you know the whole
wabi sabi. Japanese and my therapist always
says that. She says yeah, the the rupture
sucks, but the repair is the most important thing.
And it's almost better. She's like, it's almost better
(34:30):
to have the repair than had you never ruptured.
In a way. There's more intimacy in that.
Definitely. And I will say my son, I mean,
what a gift to me. And he, I mean, I do think I had
to adopt the Buddha light into my family.
I had to combat my generational trauma cause shame does not.
And never, he's had Teflon to shame the whole time.
I was telling you that story about in the, it started in that
(34:51):
bathroom, you know, he, he just ran.
And I was like, peace was, you know, screaming.
And he's just smiling. He used to jump in the pool at
the Boulder Rec Center and lie on the bottom smiling up at me
like. Yeah, like.
You said I want him to be afraid.
And I'm like, I tried to put fear in this kid.
I was like, you should be afraidbecause, you know, for survival.
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. It's so much, You know, that's
what I have forgiveness for my parents is because it's like,
(35:13):
OK, it's a survival thing, You know, survival instincts gone
kind of sideways, but OK. That's beautiful what you shared
in this sacred text. I also try to find a link.
And, you know, I am eclectic. I am not religious, but
spiritual and I do, I struggle with religion because I don't, I
(35:37):
don't like this, this or that. I'm just not a fan of the other
or, and then all the stuff rightnow that's going on.
And I don't know if we want to touch on this.
What time is it 46 minutes into our recording, but I don't know.
And we can edit this out. I just want to know, like, how
are you? How are you dealing with Israel?
(36:00):
And I mean this, we just droppedbombs on Iran.
I feel like we entered a holy war and I don't want any part of
it. I'm glad I haven't paid my taxes
yet because I paid part of them.But I owe a bunch of money.
And I'm like, I'm glad my tax dollar hopefully didn't go to
that bomb, but you know what I mean?
Like, I don't know. How are you dealing?
Is there anything you can share about and this is the big?
(36:23):
Ass, big ass. I'm going to think carefully
about what I want to say, but I'm probably going to cry.
I'll say that. I have tissues.
It's, I will say it's been very,very hard for me on a lot of
levels. I think.
How do I say this? I think I will say, oh God, I
(36:49):
don't know. First of all, I want peace.
We're going to start with that. I want peace.
I think we all do. When it makes me feel really
sad, angry, isolated, when I seepeople who say they are
(37:10):
progressive, who I have historically and many Jews have
aligned themselves with, you know, the LGBTQ community, the
Black community, many marginalized communities.
I feel like we've kind of been allies.
And then I feel like October 7thhappened.
There was a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas or Gaza or
whatever, and they did horrific things to Israelis.
(37:36):
This was the most deaths the Jewish global community has seen
on one day since the Holocaust. And I thought, oh, OK, well, the
whole world will see that like this jihadist terror
organization sucks. Isn't that the natural
conclusion? But what I saw instead was these
(37:56):
people who I had seen as allies going, well, Israel basically
asked for this. And I thought, well, this is
interesting. This feels, you know, when
people are saying, oh, well, everybody says everything's
anti-Semitic, but I'm like, but if this had been any other
group, I think the world would have had a lot more compassion
(38:18):
or just compassion period. Instead it was like, oh, well,
obviously there's this, you know, Jews brought this upon
them. I'm like, I'm like, because it
was Jews. That's how I feel.
And it's just been, it's been really hard.
It's been really hard. Like actually, I wrote about
this in my newsletter a few weeks ago after the Boulder
terror attack that the walk there were these Jewish people
(38:40):
were participating just to raiseawareness of the Israeli
hostages, you know, was characterized by some media as
pro Israel. It was not pro anything.
It was let's just walk in honor of these hostages.
It was very peaceful. It was like, this means a lot to
their families. This was like, we're not
forgetting about them and they got brutally attacked, lit on
(39:02):
fire. Yeah.
And there's a Boulder city Councilwoman who would not sign
a statement like a group City Council statement stating that
we denounced this. And her reason was because it
was described as an anti-Semiticattack.
And she felt this is my understanding of the situation.
She felt it needs to be noted that it was an anti Zionist
(39:23):
attack cuz the attacker yelled like free Palestine or something
while he was doing his attackingand.
Can you help me understand the difference between Jews?
A Jewish when you say anti-Semitic, anti-Semitic and
then so just know I'm an Ozark. You're fine.
You're fine. No, I.
Think what a Zion? What is a Zionist?
(39:45):
I'm so glad you're asking. I let see this is what I love.
I want to have these conversations with people but
usually I see people saying shitI hate like online and I'm like
online is not the place or the time but like when somebody's
asking me a question with genuine curiosity, I.
And I know I heard it and then Ibut it's OK.
So a Zionist? So is that so OK So
anti-Semitism? I prefer actually the term like
(40:06):
anti Jewish hate because I thinkit's more directed to the point
cuz semite means like from the Middle Eastern region so.
There's a lot of people generic,yeah, so.
But it but I mean those two are interchanged.
But they've made it in our in whatever it's been reclaimed as
being anti Jewish. I see what you're saying but
anti Jewish is more is more accurate.
Is more. I think it is more accurate and
then and the reason it's not just like a religious
(40:28):
intolerance, which I'm putting in air quotes is because like
Jews, I don't know if a lot of people know this.
It's common knowledge Jews are not like other religions and
that we are an ethno religion like we are of a place.
There was no such that I don't know if the word like Jew or
whatever the translation would have been in in Hebrew or
America or whatever in ancient times.
(40:48):
I don't know if that was a word.We were Israelites before we
were Jews. There was when Jesus Christ was,
you know, he was Jewish and thenwhen he was like, no, actually
I'm the Messiah. That was when everybody who went
with him became a Christian and everybody who didn't became
known as a Jew. But before that, we were the
people of this land who were, you know, the descendants of the
12 tribes. And so, so like we are a people
(41:12):
as much as we are a religion, which is why like when I met my
husband, who's not Jewish, he was like, how can you be Jewish
and agnostic, which I'm more andmore leaning toward, I think
there's a God, but I, but when Imet him, I was agnostic.
He was like, how can you be Jewed?
Like the first commandment is I'm the Lord your God.
Like he's very much a rule father blower.
And I was like, no, no, no, no, no.
Like part of yeah. If you're like an Orthodox Jew,
like a fundamentalist, sure. You've, I think you've got to
(41:33):
believe in God. I don't want to speak for them.
I'm not Orthodox. But like, it's OK.
You can believe what you believe.
You can be like a cultural Jew where I'm not sure that you can
be like a cultural Methodist forfor example, can you be like a
cultural Baptist? I'm not sure.
Yeah, that's a good question. But like there's a like there
is, if you do 23andMe, you can see like I'm X percent Ashkenazi
(41:55):
Jew. And that's not a belief system
that you're seeing in your blood.
That's a genetic thing. So, you know, and when the Nazis
wanted to kill you for being Jewish, it wasn't because you
kept kosher or you didn't, or you went to synagogue every
Sunday or Saturday rather, or you never did.
They didn't care. It was your, if you like, you
know, if your great grandparent was Jewish, like you were
Jewish. They didn't.
Care. It was just a genetic.
(42:15):
Yeah, it was Jewish blood and so, OK, so and OK, OK, I got off
the topic, but basically the anti-Semitism was anti Jew.
OK, anti Zion or Zionists are. And this is another thing that
irks me. I feel like there are a lot of
people right now who have defined what Zionism is, but
they are not Zionists. They are people who have just
(42:36):
decided what it is and their Zionism is Jewish people's right
to self determination. That's all it really is.
And and Israel is considered like a Zionist nation because it
is a homeland for Jews where Jews can go and be citizens.
You can live anywhere in the world.
But if you are Jewish and you want to claim citizenship in
Israel, you can do that. And it's a haven.
(42:59):
It's not just a haven for Jews. It's also like the only place in
the Middle East where you can begay.
Like it's a it's it's a special place and you know, whether so
people, but OK, I'm getting off I'm.
There's a lot of no, I know it's.
Basically, there's a lot of, I feel like there's a lot of this
narrative of there's an oppressed and there's an
oppressor and the Israelis have and the Jews have fallen into
(43:23):
the category of oppressor. And there's this narrative that
the oppressor is a white colonizer.
And it's really, some might say it's debatable.
I don't think it's debatable. Like, I don't think historians
say it is debatable whether Jewsare indigenous to the land of
Israel. But that's kind of, I guess what
some they say is up for debate is that this isn't the Jewish
(43:44):
land. The Jews kicked the Arabs out in
1948 when Israel became a state.But my understanding is there's
always been an option for A2 state solution and the Arabs
have never wanted it. They have always said all or
nothing. Like there was like Clinton
tried to facilitate peace talks in the 90s and they were like on
the verge of creating a 2 state solution where everybody could
(44:04):
coexist. And the Arabs said no thank you.
And so I think my understanding is the compromise was the Arabs
got Gaza and they had elections.I believe their last election
was in 2006. They elected Hamas.
They've never had a real election since.
Hamas has taken all their resources and created this like,
jihadist terrorist group. And for people who don't know,
jihadism basically says that like, you are better off being
(44:28):
in heaven, dead, dead in heaven than living in this terrible
world where like gay people should die, like Jews should die
every. So these people, like we are not
operating on the same paradigm, fighting a war with Hamas.
Like they don't see things the way we see things.
And so it's very disturbing to me that everybody is saying by
everybody, I mean, like a lot ofliberal progressives are saying
(44:50):
that the Israel, you know, Israel is committing genocide
when when they're attacking these Gazan civilians.
What's really happening is Hamasis hiding in hospitals.
They're hiding in tunnels underneath schools, hospitals,
wherever. They're hiding among civilians.
And Israel wants to take them out.
They do not want to kill Gazan babies.
That's the narrative that's being pushed.
(45:11):
Yeah, no, I and I know and you know, I get just from the
outside in my exposure, which is, I mean, obviously it's
limited. It's all coming through whatever
the news and TikTok and Instagram.
But and all our algorithms are different.
Oh, I know. It's like what you see is
probably not what I see. Oh, right, right, right, right.
Absolutely. I'm sure that's true.
And we know this. I mean, we know this tactic, we
(45:31):
know this tactic of hiding inside hospitals and it's just,
it's just a nightmare. Like I didn't know Hamas like
till you just told me this. I didn't know Hamas was the
elected governing force. I thought they were sort of
like, well, but look at our country right now.
If people looked at our country and they think we're a bunch of
Trumpers, we're not. We, we do not.
I don't agree with that leadership and yet he's in
(45:54):
quotes. I'm going to say elected even
though now. Who knows?
Who knows but the point, yeah. Well, in all of us to say like
this is what frustrates me the most is that whatever the
politics are happening in Israel, like I I don't know
anybody that agrees with what Netanyahu is doing.
Like no matter what he's doing, I think many people would agree
and has gone too far. It is not OK.
(46:15):
He is a megalomaniac. But also it's not OK that Jews
are being targeted worldwide or anywhere.
Like why are we responsible for the Israeli military?
Why is that? Why are elderly Jews getting lit
on fire on Pearl Street and the Boulder City Council
presentation? Adams can't say that's not OK.
Why? Why is that even in question?
(46:36):
Like, why have anti-Semitic attacks gone up like anti Jewish
attacks like gone up with like over 400% in the last like year
and a half? That to me is completely,
there's no reason for that there.
I mean, there is. The reason is Jew hate.
I feel like people are looking for somebody to blame and it's
easy enough and and Jews are this weird category of like,
well, Jews aren't really oppressed because the stereotype
is we are rich and powerful. And that's like, it's really, I
(47:00):
feel like the over the millennia, like there's a joke
that every Jewish holiday is they tried to kill us.
They didn't let's eat. And it's a it's a joke, but I
love that. That's traumedy right there, you
know, and because you have to because it's true the.
Reason they've always tried to kill us is anti Jewish hate is
sort of has shape shifted over the millennia to be whatever
(47:20):
people hate in that moment is what they envision the Jews to
be. So right now it's like the white
colonialist, the white oppressorand they're like that's what the
Jews, that's what Israelis are. But if you go to Israel, most of
them are not white presenting anyway.
And is it really colonialist if you do have some claim to the
land? Like it's just, it's very
complicated and it is. Very complicated.
I mean for sure, for sure, for sure.
(47:41):
Let's say that, I mean, let's say that and I have listened my
son and I have listened to podcasts and YouTube and tried
to understand the, I mean, the history there is so, but then
all of a sudden 1948, I mean, that's still really recent
history and just, well, you can't answer this, but I, I
mean, you just, I don't, I can'timagine, but I, I have to wonder
(48:03):
if it's for the highest good. Was it for the highest good to
try to have this? I don't know.
I'm not a fan of religious countries.
I say it, I just think it gets weird when a religion gets into
the constitution, which is what they're trying to do here.
We're trying to become these Christian nationalists.
I'm not a fan. I'm.
Not a fan either. I, I, I have mixed feelings.
I don't know. I will say I don't, I, I
(48:26):
understand. Like my husband is like, I don't
want to be part of any religion and I'm like, I respect it.
I get it. I get it, I get it, I get all of
it. And my own religion has, I feel
like a lot of richness and I don't want to give that up.
And I will just say this, like when European refugees, they
like, came on ships to the United States in the 1930s and
(48:47):
40s trying to seek asylum from the Nazis and the United States
turn them right around and to their deaths.
So like, that's I think the impetus for Israel being
established as a Jewish state right after the Holocaust.
Like, OK, like this is a place where these people can just.
Trying to find a safe haven but in the in the middle of.
I know surrounded by their. And then, yeah, we don't know
(49:08):
the answers, but we thank you for the dialogue.
Sure. I hope it was helpful.
I hope I wasn't too all over theplace.
No, no. It.
Wasn't I do think we all want the same things I think we all
want. Peace.
That's the. Thing yeah, and I think we want
to understand and I think this whole thing, this conflict used
to sound bites that people can glom onto and that's where.
It's tricky. No, it does get tricky.
I mean, look at this country. I mean, that's why I bring it
(49:28):
right back here. Here we are sitting on stolen
land in Boulder, Co with a street, Arapahoe Ave. and, you
know, the Chief Niwat, you know,I know up.
I mean, it's just we're all on stolen land.
That's what's really complicatedand how, I don't know, I got to
say the evolution of man, I'm not a big fan.
Like living in cities and I'm having countries.
(49:51):
I mean, the whole thing is kind of insane.
If you if you agree. I mean, there's a there's a
sociopathy and like we have evolved to this point of
othering. And I'm not like, I don't even
like patriotism. I don't like religion.
I wish we could. Can we all just eat mushrooms
and be part of the one that's? What I want, I think yes, that's
what I really. Think the I think this.
(50:12):
I think we. Found the solution.
Mushrooms are. I think of everybody, everybody
and especially the leaders of our country.
If you would please eat the you know, the wisdom, you've seen
fantastic fungi, the intelligence of the fungi.
We don't even understand I. Haven't seen the documentary, I
just experienced it. So you have experienced the.
(50:32):
One this and I I but I think it comes back to this idea of we
forget and remember again, we break and we come back again.
So I'm like hopeful that even though everything feels so
broken that this is just part ofthe bigger picture that like we
can't see because we're in it yeah, but we're just little
specks. I know we're.
Small I love that Lily Tomlin search for signs of intelligent
(50:54):
life. Did you ever see her?
But that's what she had a character in there talk about
parts work. You would love it Does a lot of
parts work. Her inner, the inner teenager in
that one is like, you're a speck, you know, like we're all
a speck. And it was like a funny line.
But we are. And I'd be disempowering, but
empowering at the same time. Yeah, you know, back to the
original 1. It's like, you know, coming back
by the fire. Hey, here's what happened over
(51:15):
here and. Well, I mean, to your point of
like, can't we all just be 1? I don't know.
I hope so. But I feel like what we do, like
on a stage with a microphone andmaking everybody laugh, that's
like a microcosm of the one. Yeah, we're all together having
this shared experience and we'relaughing.
And it's not exactly a campfire.It's like our modern campfire.
It's like, yeah, it is to me, that storytelling.
(51:36):
It's about like, that's healing.That's like medicine for our
communities. And you hope that that'll be
like a ripple to outside of yourcommunity.
Yeah, that's to me like. Like this?
I hope that, yeah. That's where it's at.
I love it. I love that we're ending on
that. I love this conversation.
Thank you for dropping in, beingreal and taking us some tough
(51:56):
stuff. It's fun.
Pam Moore, thank you so much, and we'll see you next time.
Thanks Dancing. I want to thank my guest, Pam
Moore. Please go to the show notes.
She sent me a lot of links. Get some resources for Bell's
Palsy. I want to thank my son who just
(52:17):
walked by the door. I thank my son who created the
music loop for traumedy and I want to absolutely thank you.
I want to thank you the listenerfor being on this Co healing
journey and let me know if you have a subject that you'd like
to have covered. Remember, no matter what, keep
laughing.
You're listening to Trauma D, the podcast that helps you take
your pain and play with it. I'm Nancy Norton, I am a
comedian. I'm a trauma survivor, also a
registered nurse, haven't workedas a nurse in a while, but it's
still in me to want to help healmyself and others.
And I'm doing that with humor now, and I talk a lot about the
(00:26):
power of humor. This week.
I have a wonderful guest. She is a gosh, she does so many
things. She's a comedian, she's a
writer. She's an intuitive eating coach.
What is the term? When you when you don't see
yourself accurately like your friend.
Oh, that's dysmorphia. Body dysmorphia.
Oh, but what is it when you justdon't like how you look?
(00:47):
Body dissatisfaction. Oh, being a woman, I think
that's what you call that. That's succinct.
If you want to come see a comedyshow, you know where to find me.
nancynorton.tv. That's nancynorton.tv.
Like television and then click on upcoming shows.
(01:08):
I will tell you some of the dates right now.
I'll be in Fort Collins, Co July13th and then Kearney, NE July
14th, Hays, KS July 15th, the Denver Comedy Underground July
19th, and then Saget Casino up above, like close to Canada,
(01:29):
above Seattle, between Seattle and Canada and that's August 8th
and 9th. Yeah, you can just go to
nancynorton.tv. Look at my upcoming shows.
You know the drill. Ah, let's stop talking.
Let's get on with this episode. We talk about so many things,
body dysmorphia, Bell's palsy, parenting the Middle East.
I we cover a lot, so I know you're going to enjoy this
(01:51):
episode. I'll see you on the other side.
Welcome to Traumedy. My guest this week is a writer,
a comedian, and a gravel cyclist.
Please welcome Pam. Moore, Nancy, thank you so much
(02:11):
for having me. I'm pumped to be on.
Traumedy yay I'm glad it worked out This is so cool so this was
like a serendipity. We were at a show in South
Boulder, a comedy show, and thank you for coming out and
reminding me. We just we worked together
within the last year or so and I'm and you are I'm just Oh my
(02:32):
gosh, my memory and also out of context.
I have to it takes my Rolodex a while.
I. Relate to that.
So I so appreciated you going. It's Pam Pam Moore.
We work together all good. And I'm wearing my mom's
unhinged shirt that is a little small, but I am grateful for
mom's Unhinged. I'm glad it's brought a lot of
us together. Andrea Sodigren, who is the
(02:54):
producer, founder, comedian MomsUnhinged master guru.
She has brought a lot of us together and her vision she's
shared with me is to raise like 50 comedians, you know, female
comedians up into, you know, doing shows.
So it's still the arc is still growing and although I know she
(03:19):
had to cut back her roster a little bit in the short term,
but I I have a sense it's going to expand again.
I. Hope it will.
And I honestly, even if I never get to work with Moms Unhinged
again, which I hope I do, even if I don't like it brought me to
you. It brought it gave me.
Like, I'm still early in my comedy career.
Yeah, but it was even earlier when I worked with Moms Unhinged
and it gave me a ton of confidence, a lot of
(03:40):
opportunities I wouldn't have had.
And I feel like it kind of like turbocharged me.
But I didn't mean to bring up like, I'm wearing Mom's unhinged
in your face, you know, like I didn't.
I just thought I was just thinking we bonded there and I
was like, yay, Mom's unhinged. Mainly because my traumedy shirt
was dirty. OK, I was going to put on my
(04:00):
traumedy hat to cover my hair, but I forgot.
Oh my God. Well, anyway, you know, I was
showing you my kind of personal painting in my meditation space
and it's a path through the woods and it's just like, you
know, there's like twists and turns and it can be kind of
confusing. But I always say all roads lead
to you. And it's like trusting our path.
It's hard because there's grief work that we have to do to let
(04:22):
go. I do love those shows and I do
love bringing high frequency humor to moms who are, you know,
raising the next generation likeyou are.
You're a mom. I'm a mom and you just told me
how old are your kids? They.
Are 11 and 13 two girls? And you're doing all this create
2 girls and they're going Oh my gosh.
And going into adolescence or they're in.
Adolescence my 13 year old's been in adolescence since
(04:44):
preschool she's had. Attitude that time out didn't
work, did it, Mama? God, no, it's humbling, isn't it
The most humbling thing? And they're so smart.
And the. Word.
That's the word humbling. Well, I love that you wanted to
drink the sweet and spicy tea because it's a, it was a fond
(05:04):
memory being pregnant and that'swhat you drank.
And I mean your, your, your journey into parenting, I'm
guessing is, I mean it's something you wanted.
Oh yes, it was planned. It was planned both times, yes.
And but we never know. Sometimes you have to laugh at
ourselves. Like what did we sign up?
You know, it's funny, it was wanted, but sort of like, how do
(05:26):
I say this? Let's see, when I he was on the
radar in general, like, yeah, I'm probably gonna have a kid.
And then as I got to my late 20sand I didn't have a partner and
had never had a serious partner,I was like, shoot, I better give
up on that dream because I don'twant to have this dream that
like I may not be able to fulfill because I did not think
I wanted to be a single parent. I don't think I would be good.
I'm I have a short fuse and I was just like, there's been so
(05:49):
many. I would.
I cannot relate to that at all as I was going off on people
talking at that comedy show lastnight.
But anyway, so you know that about yourself.
But then I'm so I was sort of ambivalent about the whole
thing. Then I meet my husband and right
away like it we, it was a serious connection right off the
bat and right immediately, like he was like, do you not want to
(06:11):
see other people? I don't want to see other
people. And I was like, I don't want to
see other people, But you shouldknow that I'm not sure if I want
kids, but if we do, like, are you on board to raise them
Jewish? And he was like, I don't know
what that means, but I don't think it's a deal breaker.
And I was like, cool, because I was like, I'm 29, I'm not
getting younger. If that's a deal breaker, then
like I should know now. So now Fast forward.
He's on board for the Jewish kids.
But I'm like, Oh my God, our life is pretty good.
(06:34):
Do I really want to get up and have a baby?
So. How many years were you together
before you started your family? Not that long.
We met in 2008, we got married in 2010 and our first kid was
born in 2012, so. But that's a nice time to get.
I mean, you had a what? So four years to.
Get to him well enough. Yes, I think that sounds lovely
it. Was love, but I was really
(06:55):
ambivalent. Like he was all systems go and I
was like, OK, let's do it. And then when I found out I was
pregnant, I had a lot of ambivalence.
The first time I was like, Oh myGod, like this is what I wanted.
But holy shit, I'm terrified of messing up.
You know, I thought we had a good life and I and I think we
have a good life now. It's it's richer.
Now, but it's a definite different life and you do I
(07:17):
think that's wise to know like it's the end of an era.
I just think it's wise to like grieve and say this, you know,
and they always say that, right with every even promotion at
work, you got to grieve the old job or with the new house.
But but but but so you were wiseto like Oh boy, this is now a
new. But I also think, you know, it's
funny, like having kids has forced me to heal parts of
(07:39):
myself that I did not know he needed healing.
I don't think I would have discovered these wounds without
having the experience of being aparent.
They're such teachers, aren't they?
I mean, and the stuff that comesup or seeing like one, well,
I've overcompensated in a lot ofways for my childhood where I
see I over like empowered my sonin some ways, like you know, all
(08:05):
about your feelings. Tell me about your feelings.
How are you? And you know, he has no need.
He's he's he loves to play music, compose music, but no
need to be in front of an audience.
He's like, I don't need attention from strangers, you
know, like I do. But but you obviously, if you
have a short fuse, I'm you know,this is me projecting, but I
always think, you know, what is that trauma about?
(08:26):
You know, what is it that clicksus over, like triggers us into
kind of ragey? Is that am I?
Am I implying too? Much Nope.
That's what it is. It is a click over into quick
rage. And what is the trauma?
I'm not sure. I will say it's what I observed.
I wonder if some of it is just this like chronic feeling of
like not being seen, not being heard and so it can easily be
(08:49):
triggered. Like if one of my kids isn't
listening to me for example, I like freak out.
Yep, I definitely have. As you saw last night, I was
even saying it out loud. This is one of my triggers, not
feeling heard. This is why I have a microphone
on a speaker. And then when I even have all
this amp amplification and stillthose people that turn their
(09:10):
back and stayed that way, I mean, it was a bar, but it was
supposed to be a comedy night. And people had paid money to
come see a comedy show. And I was, you know, a lot of
stuff was going on. And I actually did some
psychedelic trauma therapy aboutthat and what I mean, I did EMDR
and brain spotting. Have you done any trauma therapy
at all? Not specifically like I have
(09:30):
been in therapy and we I really enjoyed internal families,
internal family systems or partswork.
And I have done psychedelics, not like under the supervision
of a professional just like myself, but it was very
therapeutic and I hope it will continue to be.
Yes, and I mean it's all set andsetting in tension I guess too.
When you thought of coming on Trauma D Yeah.
(09:51):
Was there something that you thought I really need to share
this story because, you know, the theme is to help heal
ourselves and others like Co healing experience. peer-to-peer
sharing. Here's how I've gotten through
some stuff. And I know you're an artist.
You have a lot of expressions, comedy, art, writing.
Yeah, when I first, I was just listening to Traumedy because
I'm like, oh, you had on Elena McMillan, who I like, and I was
(10:14):
like, I want to get to know her better.
Like until I can go for coffee with Elena, I can listen to
Traumedy and then I can't remember who else I listen to.
I Elena stuck out because I knowher.
And I thought, you know, what I think might be useful to
listeners would be my experienceof having had Bell's Palsy right
after my second child was born. You know what that is?
(10:34):
For listeners who don't know what it is, it is when half of
your face becomes spontaneously paralyzed.
It is much more likely. It's not common, but it's way
more likely to happen actually postpartum or in the third
trimester of pregnancy. And mine happened after my
second child was born. She was ten days old.
So all of a sudden half of my face is paralyzed.
(10:55):
So I'll give you the quick, yeah, quick and dirty.
And then you can come back and ask me any, like, follow up
questions. OK.
Basically, I had this terrible experience with facial
paralysis. And most people, it will heal
spontaneously within a week, a month, six months maybe.
Mine took a while. It was a good six months before
things were back to normal. But then on like the six month
(11:15):
anniversary, I had a major relapse.
Come to find out only in the last like couple of years I was
working with somebody new to tryto rehab it.
She said you didn't actually have a relapse.
What happens is the nerves as they're growing back, they can
kind of grow back wrong. And I have something called
Synchonesis. So my face was doing all these
(11:35):
weird things where like for example, I would shut my eyes
and it affected the right hand side of my face.
I'd shut my eyes and my whole face would like, pull to the
right where I would feel like a squeezy.
Imagine like a rubber band on your eyeball.
That's what it felt like, especially when I was tired.
The eye gets really squinty whenI smile.
That was the biggest thing. I hated pictures.
(11:56):
I especially hated selfies. I could not stand to like, watch
myself in a video. And so all this is happening
when I and I have the second baby.
I have like a toddler and a newborn and everything was Oh,
and it was a difficult. She was a difficult baby.
I later found out that she had some food allergies.
And once we kind of changed her diet, she seemed better.
(12:16):
But she was. I thought she was like a grouchy
baby. She is the happiest person in
the world. We just didn't know.
Yeah, she had a stomach ache herwhole life until she was like 1.
And she had eczema and she was abad sleeper and itchy, itchy.
My older child. There's nothing worse than itch,
honestly. No, we, the older one, we would
try to sleep train her and it didn't work that great, but at
(12:37):
least you could. I'd walk away and be like, OK,
you're crying, but I know you'refine.
The little one would cry and you'd walk in the room and you
know they're so little and they've huge heads and her hands
couldn't even reach her head andshe'd be trying to scratch
herself. Oh yeah, that's right it.
Was so sad they. Can't reach.
Yeah, and it was just like, you couldn't let her cry it out.
She was suffering. And so I did not.
(12:58):
This kid did not sleep through the night until she was like 17
months old. So you really understand the
sleep deprivation? I did not sleep a whole night
until the kid was 17 months old.The breastfeeding was going very
poorly. But I, I don't know why I was so
committed to it. Looking back, I'm like, what the
hell. But I was very committed to the
breastfeeding. It was like a nightmare, like.
Well, you wanted to give her every advantage.
I mean, breastfeeding is like a great gift.
(13:19):
To it and I'm lazy and so I think formula.
Is a lot of work. I don't see you.
I can tell you're not lazy. You got high energy.
Formula is a lot of work. I'm not, I don't want to do all
these dishes, so I just. Anyways, it was a shitty year.
And on top of it, you know, withthis facial paralysis, I felt a
lot of. So I was ashamed of my
appearance, but I was also feeling very ashamed of feeling
(13:42):
ashamed. I was like, I'm really vain.
I'm a locust. Yeah, right.
Yeah, it's hard. Like I was just telling you.
The reason I don't video is because I've got this divergent
eye and I it really distracts. Me.
You know, when you said that, that was the first thing I
thought it was like, oh, I know what that's like.
I know in pictures when we do selfies, I can sort of think
(14:02):
about it and try to pull it in. I noticed we were talking about
John Novasad, who has an just a bookmark here real quick.
But just I definitely relate to like facial, you know, what is
it? Bilateral asymmetry.
Asymmetry. That's the word I'm looking for.
And you know, eyes the window tothe soul, like my, is my soul
(14:24):
fucked up? Is that, you know, do I have two
souls? What's going on?
Right. I felt like, yeah, I have.
I have a black soul, so to speak.
I felt like I had a dark soul. I felt like I am vain.
And my kids, you know, you know,kids are very sensing.
They don't, you know, kids know everything, right?
So I was like, fuck, they're little.
They know. They know I'm a vain asshole.
And Oh my God, I'm raising girls.
(14:46):
I'm raising them to be just as vain as I am.
Like I'm fucking everything up and I'm in these Facebook groups
for people with Bell's palsy andpeople are coming in these
groups. Like I have headaches.
I have to tape my eye shut at night because it won't shut on
its own. I have tinnitus.
I have all these and I'm like, Idon't have any of these physical
symptoms. Like I don't have pain.
I had discomfort and have no pain.
(15:07):
So then I'm also like, what am Icomplaining about?
Like I don't have real problems.But it felt.
And so I tried, you name it, I tried it.
And then I sort of gave up for awhile.
And then about two years ago, I just, I learned about this new
treatment and I called the placewhere they do it and I it's in
Maryland. And I was like, does anyone in
Denver do this? And they were like, no, we're
(15:27):
kind of creating it as we go. We're working on a training, but
we do it here in Maryland. But we do telehealth.
Do you want to try telehealth? And I was like, I'll try it.
And I can't explain how helpful it has been.
I went out there once and the physical therapist put like
needles in my fascia of my face,which was painful but helpful.
And so it's interesting too, cuzin a way it's been all this time
(15:52):
and I wanna be like, I've accepted it, but I haven't
accepted it cuz I'm seeing this PT now we're down to about once
a month cuz I'm getting a lot better.
And but she had me getting Botoxin because that helps in the
eyeball. Not exactly eyeball, but like.
Occipital muscles, Yeah, like here.
Yeah, here and here for your listeners, you can.
(16:13):
OK, Yeah, yeah, Top of the eye, side of the eye, right below the
eye. Yeah.
Where those muscles are, Yeah, But where the nerves enter those
muscles? I guess so.
I wonder. I guess so I was.
Doing you might look at an anatomy book.
I was doing that like quarterly for a while and I was like, am I
gonna have to do this for the rest of my life?
You know, because Botox is not apermanent solution to anything
you have to redo. And then but then it got better
(16:34):
on its own. The last time I got the Botox
was like January. And then I'm like, wow, things
have gotten better. I mean, I do my exercise, I
said. Your eyes look even to me.
Yeah, they're not, but they're way better.
They're like, it's good. I'm like, hey, if I never saw my
PT again, I actually have like fallen in love with her.
And I'm like, I can never get good enough to not see you
anymore because I love you. You're my best friend.
But like. Is she like your rescuer where
you have like, a little crush onyour rescuer?
(16:56):
Yeah. She's a little, you know what,
She's kind of maternal to me. She's like, she's not quite my
mom's age. Her kids are probably like 30,
but she's she's motherly. She's very sweet.
I mean, I love my own mother. No shade to my no shade like
Jodi is awesome. Shout out to Jodi Barth.
So is she a local physical? Therapy.
No, this is my telehealth personin.
Maryland, she's in Maryland, She's that's the one that.
(17:17):
She's my zoom mommy. That's a fun term.
But anyway, so back to the trauma.
So the trauma is the Bell's Palsy, but the trauma D is I
have over the years. It's funny, like my perspective
on the whole thing has changed like a year out and I'm a
writer. So like a year out from it, I
wrote a personal essay about it and it got published and I was
(17:38):
like, wow, that was like really healing to put that out there
and to see how far I've come in a year.
But then like 3 or 4 years laterI wrote another personal essay
about it and I was like, wow, this is not the essay I would
have written three years. Ago, there's been growth.
Yeah. And then and what was wild, that
was a deeply, deeply personal and I submitted it to a contest
and I won the contest. And then I got to like read part
(18:01):
of the essay at a bookstore as like part of the thing.
And I was like, shit, people aregoing to hear me read this in
person. This is like so personal.
And but it was just met with like so much support and so much
so many people came kind of cameout of the woodwork to say, oh,
this happened to me two. And then a little bit after that
essay came out, Angelina Jolie announced that she had Belle's
(18:24):
palsy. So then like, People magazine
interviewed me about it because my essay had come out like that
same week. So this this sounds like a high
profile like contest. I mean, People magazine saw it.
These were separate first it gotpublished in long Reads and then
I think six months later I won the I submitted that to the
Colorado Authors League like essay contest.
So this was like 2017, and then I started stand up comedy like
(18:47):
in the fall of 2023. And like last summer, about a
year ago, I was like, you know, what's kind of funny actually is
Bell's policy. Like half of your face doing one
thing and half of your face doing the other thing.
And you know, there's a lot of humor.
And so I wrote some jokes about it.
I have a bit about Bell's palsy,and it has been the
juxtaposition. Unbelievably healing to be able
(19:09):
to laugh about it like that feels like it's such a gift.
Oh, I love it. Is there anything like, and I
know it's like tell me a joke, but is there anything I should
have said? If you want, I don't know if you
have anything on the phone or anything you want, if you want
to plug in a bit or do you want to say anymore about it?
Or do you want to just allude tothe fact that there's humor out
there about? It you know what we can do what
after we get out done with the interview I can e-mail you.
(19:32):
I have a clip of just like 5 minutes of me doing Bell's palsy
humor if you want to throw that in the show notes if people want
to check me out on YouTube telling.
OK, that's what I'll do Bell's palsy.
So check the show notes and alsomay I have a link to your to
your essay? So that's a nice and that'll be
a nice juxtaposition because they'll be this like deep dive
of the vulnerable. Like, oh gosh, this was how it
(19:52):
really challenged me. And here's how I make fun of it.
Oh, this is perfect comedy. Yeah.
Oh, and I forgot about another thing too.
Like over the years, I've just. I've made a lot of art about it.
Like yeah, first there was the essay in it was called Mamalode.
Then there was the long reads. Then there's the Listen to Your
Mother show. So I've Co produced it different
years. There was one year that I was
selected to be in the cast that I wasn't, like on the leadership
(20:14):
team. And I submitted an essay about,
again, Bell's palsy, but a different perspective.
It was like I was recording a vlog and like, we were talking
about, like, seeing yourself on video can be difficult.
And I'm in the middle of it and I'm like, hating everything
about myself. And I paused it because my kid
walked in the room and she was 9at the time, my older kid.
And she walked in and she saw the paused image on the screen.
(20:36):
And she goes, that's such a goodpicture of you.
It really shows your Bell's Palsy, which could have been an
insult, but I could see what shemeant was it's so you.
Yeah, that's. All she and she embraced your.
Whole self and I was like, oh, this is what it's about.
This is about like accepting everything and the beauty not
(20:57):
being what we think of as perfect or striving to be
perfect. It's just like, she just loves
me as I am because she's my kid,you know?
And I'm just like, Oh my God. Isn't it interesting?
Like I mean, my friend and I, wejust went to Chatfield Reservoir
2 days ago and I've gained like 10 lbs this year and I'm really
(21:18):
struggling with, that's been my,you know, I've always had, I've
been called ugly like for, you know, a lot, you know.
So I'm like, oh, I'm ugly, but I'm fit, you know, a lot.
Well, I mean, well, like in highschool or like, you know, when
kids are just like. Oh, just kids being ditched.
Yeah, but it gets you're, you know, like, I feel like I want
to cry like this is my inner child is like got a resource.
(21:42):
But yeah, so but my fitness has been my way to like I'm fit, you
know, like, and now I'm getting like, it's interesting.
Like I put this shirt on for thefirst time.
I'm like, oh, it's a little small now and I had to just bump
up my pants. And so we went to the to the res
and I had just bought some new boy surf shorts to cover with
(22:05):
Cellulite and also just to fit. And she has gained 50 lbs And
she said, I think, and we're both in a recovery program.
Let me just say that because she's like, I think higher power
is helping me like this is for me to like body acceptance.
And she goes, I look back at pictures and I was, I felt like
(22:25):
I didn't like my stomach and I was so skinny.
And I thought, oh, I did not like my body 50 lbs ago.
And I'm looking back at that. And then at what point?
What point, you know, do we justsay I love myself right now?
I yeah. I feel a little choked up.
I have to take a drink. Yeah, to a parasympathetic
nervous system reset when because my inner child is really
(22:46):
wounded about feeling disfiguredand I will drop in and cry a
little bit here and there, but think about like so grateful
that you had this symmetrical, beautiful face.
And then one day it changed and like people have strokes.
Like, you heard Lewis last nighttalking about having a so this
is going, this is all tying backinto all of a sudden having a
(23:06):
face that isn't like, this isn'twho I am.
And then my friend who is alwayslike, she's an athlete, and all
of a sudden she gained weight. And she's like, I want to tell,
like, prospective men I want to date.
Like, oh, by the way, I'm reallya skinny person.
This is just weight gain. This isn't me.
Yeah. We are over identifying with our
bodies. Exactly.
(23:27):
I forgot to mention before you were like, who are you?
What do I do? How do I introduce you?
I'm also an intuitive eating coach, which is a lot about
body. It's about eating, but it's also
about body image and accepting ourselves.
And it's like, I don't think thegoal is to, especially when it
comes to eating and food and body image and all that.
It's hard. It's a lot of unlearning.
The goal I tell my clients is like, you don't need to love
(23:50):
your body every minute. That's impossible in this
culture. It's not going to happen.
I mean, if you do great, great. But like, that's too lofty of a
goal. Instead, what I tell people, and
this is what's been true for me,is if you have a negative
thought about your body, you don't have to spiral like the
gap in between feeling bad and going down the shame spiral and
(24:15):
deciding, OK, I'm only eating salads and I'm only this and I'm
I'm going to, I'm going to fit into these jeans, all of that.
You kind of shorten the gap. It's like the chasm between I
felt good and then I weighed myself and now I feel shitty.
Does it ruin the next minute or does it ruin the next day or
week? We we hopefully get it down to
like maybe it only ruins 25 minutes or you know what I mean?
(24:36):
It's like, yeah, you just, you can let it go a little bit
easier. Like where I used to be like, oh
shit, I went on vacation, I gained weight.
Now I'm going to eat salads. And then five days later I was
great with the salads and I'm binging because all I ate was
salads for five days. I don't do that anymore.
I don't look at myself and go, Igained 5 lbs on vacation and I
feel like a supermodel. No, but what I'll do instead is
(24:57):
go, OK, you know what? I'm going to put on different
pants and move on. And that's the end of it.
Just going to. Wear looser pants.
I'm. Going to wear looser pants.
I love that. I mean, that's a gift.
There's so many things I want togo back to Bells Palsy before we
move on to food. I love this.
I want to talk more about this body image stuff because I think
this is what this episode is really going to be about.
And but also Bells Palsy. So Miriam Moreno, I don't know
(25:19):
if you've met her. I know her okay, She probably.
Doesn't know me, but yeah, I think she's very funny.
I know she is. She's and they and they have a
talk show, she and her husband, Jacob Rupp, and they were guests
a few weeks ago, but they have atalk show I did recently called
Goodnight Denver. So they're, they're like, we all
wanted to get on the late night talk show.
So she's like, like, I'm just doing, I'm making my own.
I love that. So it's really cool.
And she has Bells Palsy right now.
(25:42):
Yeah, she just, and she got it from a dental episode where they
numbed her and I guess she read that it can be a side effect of
a trauma to a nerve during dental and it can set off this
whole inflammatory thing. And and so she was, and she went
ahead and taped that show with half her face blinking.
(26:03):
I mean, her talking like she's under anesthesia, you know,
she's doing, she was talking a little like that.
I mean, but she she and she was self, she was like, do I, Nancy,
I she sent me a message. I don't, I'm not sure.
It was getting better. Now it's getting worse and like,
I'll show you this reel that sheposted that's so funny because
one eye is doing the one thing and blinking.
(26:24):
And I mean, it's funny because the way she did her traumedy
around it, she goes, my my face is messed up, I guess.
And then she does this thing, like, where you could never do
that consciously. Yeah, like you cannot the way,
you know, keeping the way. Like if you blink, you don't.
It's a different. That's the thing about Bell's
palsy, Bell's palsy rehab and everything.
It's like, it's not like your face is not like other muscles,
(26:44):
you know, It's not like, oh, I have a bad wrist I have to do.
These. Yeah, the cranial nerves.
Yeah. And you know, gosh, I had a
well, I got. That's a HIPAA violation.
Probably can't talk about that. All right.
I was just thinking about a pagethat I had that had had a stroke
as an infant and lost a lot of his brain.
And so his cranial nerves rewired differently so that
different things to different things.
(27:05):
I mean, the cranial nerve, it isfascinating, isn't it?
And what we're learning and I did go to vision therapy.
So there is a part of me that inin my 50s, I read a book called
Fixing My Gaze. So there's all this stuff about
neuroplasticity now and regrowing and do we accept it or
do we, you know, like it takes 20 minutes a day for me to do
(27:27):
eye exercises to draw my eye in.And at one point I got too busy
and I stopped doing it. And then I never went back to
it. And then with doom scrolling or
whatever with phones, my eye just it just pushed way out
again. Sigh.
Anyway, so Bell's palsy what that we're going to put links in
the show notes about it, just what it is.
(27:49):
And maybe the Should I put a link to the Maryland people?
Yeah, I'll, I'll share that withyou.
And and because anyone you know,when you hashtag stuff, people
are looking. And they might find, I think it
would be awesome if people find it's, I think it's called the
facial nerve recovery center or facial.
I'll send you a link. These people are the, my PT is
(28:10):
like a magician. The fact that like she's helped
me after like 10 years, it's like 10 years post when I
finally found her. And I, it's wild because I am 46
now and I'm like, I am the only 46 year old woman who is not
getting like Botox, fillers, etcetera.
That probably feels better abouther face than she did 10 years
ago. This is the best thing that can
(28:30):
happen to me. That's a really fun perspective.
Yeah. You know, And my friend Christy
Buckley, who has cerebral palsy,which is a permanent condition.
I shouldn't say permanent. I'll put it in quotes because I
believe in miracles. But so far, so far, we haven't
seen that being recovered from. But she she's always, she does
(28:51):
like a kind of jokes about aging.
Like people like you live long enough, you're going to get
where I've, you know, like you're going to need a Walker
here and there. You're going to, you know,
you're going to have a disability.
So she's like, I'm ahead of the curve.
You know, I'm already funny. Yeah, I'm already, you know, I
know how to do this. And I thought, you know, and
aging is just another another thing like I'm 64 now and thank
(29:12):
you. Please let there be Medicare and
Social Security. All right, So I'm 64 and it is
just like, hey, Nance, this is the downhill side.
I mean, we are aging and it is interesting body pop.
So let's get back to this body. What is it?
Dysmorphia? What is it?
Called body dysmorphia. But what is?
What is the term? When you when you don't see
(29:34):
yourself accurately like your friend.
That's. Body dysmorphia.
But what is it when you just don't like how you look?
Body dissatisfaction. Being a woman, I think that's
what you call that. That's succinct 60.
Percent of people suffer from that, Nancy. 50% roughly XX
(29:58):
chromosomes. But my friend and I were saying
yesterday, it's like, OK or the other, you know what you and I
are going to say too is like, OK, wait, how do we really like
I have not made peace with it. I clearly have not made peace
with my eye and I have not made peace with my jowls and creepy
neck at this point. But it's only going to get, I'm
(30:20):
only, you know, going to age more.
I don't know. The only thing I can say is I do
share with people that I did psychedelic therapy.
I had to go, I had to go choose the restroom.
And I saw my soul in the mirror that transcended everything.
And I didn't know I had such a beautiful light.
I was thinking about your soul that's inside all this.
(30:41):
And I think that's where it's at.
Like I how do we make peace? I'm not sure totally.
I think it's different for everyperson.
And that's part of what I try tohelp people with in my coaching
practice. But like that's where it's at is
understanding that your soul, like our bodies are temporary
and they're like a vessel for this energy and the soul.
(31:01):
And they're like a they're really just a vehicle that where
we store our gifts temporarily. And I think it's just a matter
of like, we forget because we look in the mirror and we have
all these messages that we've been told since we were born
about how we're supposed to be in the world and what our value
is. And we and we forget that.
Like it's not about that. It's about like what you did
(31:23):
last night on the stage and you created the like the beautiful
energy and you gave people the gift of laughter.
That's where it's at. Nobody gives a shit what you
look like when you're raising the frequency of the room.
And so I think it's just coming back to that.
It's like a forgetting and a remembering and trying to just
keep remembering. It's like it's OK to forget.
We all do. Can I be with that for a minute?
I love that. I love what you just did.
(31:44):
And you gestured towards me and back and they're like the
forgetting and the remembering. I got to say that's
exhilarating. And maybe this is the whole
point of our earth experience. Is this duality and this over
identifying with the body. And then like, is this the joy
of returning to spirit? Like is this the joy of life?
My ex and I was showing you one of her paintings and she's very
(32:06):
spiritual and she said, Nancy, Ialways I just want to live in
the light all the time. And I said, oh, you know what?
I love the change of seasons. I love the night and the light.
And I go, I like looking at lifethrough a comb, you know, like
the light, the dark, you know, that exhilaration.
And so when you did this motion,I felt that exhilaration.
And maybe that's what it's all about.
(32:26):
And you know. Is the forgetting and the Marine
I? Forget it.
And here's something interestingabout that.
I've been like reading a lot more and getting really
interested in Kabbalah, which isJewish mysticism.
And there's a lot of wisdom in there.
And I might be butchering this. I'm not like an expert, but what
I have learned is that at the beginning of like this sacred
(32:46):
text, like there were these vessels and God filled them with
the brightest light and they broke because they could not
contain the light. It was too bright and they were
not strong enough. Now we figure God, God's God,
right? So God must have known.
God wasn't like, oh shit, right.God knew, God must have known,
right? You know, So but that.
(33:07):
But there's this Jewish tradition called tikkun olam,
which is repairing the world. It's basically, you know, social
justice, being kind, whatever. That's how we repair what is
broken by doing the best you canto be of service and help.
And so, and when you think so that's sort of, if you think of
that as the foundation of everything of OK, there was this
beautiful light. It was too much.
(33:27):
It broke the vessels. Now they need to repair.
But that was sort of God's plan all along, right?
That gives me when I think aboutthat and I think about all the
like social ills between, you know, all of the unrest and the
sadness and the pain and the everything that's going on right
now and, you know, always has been and maybe always will be.
And then also like our personal issues of like I look fat, like
(33:50):
all of these things kind of comeback to and even like fighting
with my partner, fighting with my children.
It's always OK, But that's what life is about.
Something breaks and you fix it like a breaks and you've.
Yeah, like in my, you know, likea, my therapist will say, you
know, because I, well, I do a lot of confessing about like
(34:10):
here's a bad parenting moment and I made amends and I, I mean,
I'm trying to do a living amends, which is to not do those
too often. But then she's like, but you
know, the fact that you make repairs and you know the whole
wabi sabi. Japanese and my therapist always
says that. She says yeah, the the rupture
sucks, but the repair is the most important thing.
And it's almost better. She's like, it's almost better
(34:30):
to have the repair than had you never ruptured.
In a way. There's more intimacy in that.
Definitely. And I will say my son, I mean,
what a gift to me. And he, I mean, I do think I had
to adopt the Buddha light into my family.
I had to combat my generational trauma cause shame does not.
And never, he's had Teflon to shame the whole time.
I was telling you that story about in the, it started in that
(34:51):
bathroom, you know, he, he just ran.
And I was like, peace was, you know, screaming.
And he's just smiling. He used to jump in the pool at
the Boulder Rec Center and lie on the bottom smiling up at me
like. Yeah, like.
You said I want him to be afraid.
And I'm like, I tried to put fear in this kid.
I was like, you should be afraidbecause, you know, for survival.
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. It's so much, You know, that's
what I have forgiveness for my parents is because it's like,
(35:13):
OK, it's a survival thing, You know, survival instincts gone
kind of sideways, but OK. That's beautiful what you shared
in this sacred text. I also try to find a link.
And, you know, I am eclectic. I am not religious, but
spiritual and I do, I struggle with religion because I don't, I
(35:37):
don't like this, this or that. I'm just not a fan of the other
or, and then all the stuff rightnow that's going on.
And I don't know if we want to touch on this.
What time is it 46 minutes into our recording, but I don't know.
And we can edit this out. I just want to know, like, how
are you? How are you dealing with Israel?
(36:00):
And I mean this, we just droppedbombs on Iran.
I feel like we entered a holy war and I don't want any part of
it. I'm glad I haven't paid my taxes
yet because I paid part of them.But I owe a bunch of money.
And I'm like, I'm glad my tax dollar hopefully didn't go to
that bomb, but you know what I mean?
Like, I don't know. How are you dealing?
Is there anything you can share about and this is the big?
(36:23):
Ass, big ass. I'm going to think carefully
about what I want to say, but I'm probably going to cry.
I'll say that. I have tissues.
It's, I will say it's been very,very hard for me on a lot of
levels. I think.
How do I say this? I think I will say, oh God, I
(36:49):
don't know. First of all, I want peace.
We're going to start with that. I want peace.
I think we all do. When it makes me feel really
sad, angry, isolated, when I seepeople who say they are
(37:10):
progressive, who I have historically and many Jews have
aligned themselves with, you know, the LGBTQ community, the
Black community, many marginalized communities.
I feel like we've kind of been allies.
And then I feel like October 7thhappened.
There was a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas or Gaza or
whatever, and they did horrific things to Israelis.
(37:36):
This was the most deaths the Jewish global community has seen
on one day since the Holocaust. And I thought, oh, OK, well, the
whole world will see that like this jihadist terror
organization sucks. Isn't that the natural
conclusion? But what I saw instead was these
(37:56):
people who I had seen as allies going, well, Israel basically
asked for this. And I thought, well, this is
interesting. This feels, you know, when
people are saying, oh, well, everybody says everything's
anti-Semitic, but I'm like, but if this had been any other
group, I think the world would have had a lot more compassion
(38:18):
or just compassion period. Instead it was like, oh, well,
obviously there's this, you know, Jews brought this upon
them. I'm like, I'm like, because it
was Jews. That's how I feel.
And it's just been, it's been really hard.
It's been really hard. Like actually, I wrote about
this in my newsletter a few weeks ago after the Boulder
terror attack that the walk there were these Jewish people
(38:40):
were participating just to raiseawareness of the Israeli
hostages, you know, was characterized by some media as
pro Israel. It was not pro anything.
It was let's just walk in honor of these hostages.
It was very peaceful. It was like, this means a lot to
their families. This was like, we're not
forgetting about them and they got brutally attacked, lit on
(39:02):
fire. Yeah.
And there's a Boulder city Councilwoman who would not sign
a statement like a group City Council statement stating that
we denounced this. And her reason was because it
was described as an anti-Semiticattack.
And she felt this is my understanding of the situation.
She felt it needs to be noted that it was an anti Zionist
(39:23):
attack cuz the attacker yelled like free Palestine or something
while he was doing his attackingand.
Can you help me understand the difference between Jews?
A Jewish when you say anti-Semitic, anti-Semitic and
then so just know I'm an Ozark. You're fine.
You're fine. No, I.
Think what a Zion? What is a Zionist?
(39:45):
I'm so glad you're asking. I let see this is what I love.
I want to have these conversations with people but
usually I see people saying shitI hate like online and I'm like
online is not the place or the time but like when somebody's
asking me a question with genuine curiosity, I.
And I know I heard it and then Ibut it's OK.
So a Zionist? So is that so OK So
anti-Semitism? I prefer actually the term like
(40:06):
anti Jewish hate because I thinkit's more directed to the point
cuz semite means like from the Middle Eastern region so.
There's a lot of people generic,yeah, so.
But it but I mean those two are interchanged.
But they've made it in our in whatever it's been reclaimed as
being anti Jewish. I see what you're saying but
anti Jewish is more is more accurate.
Is more. I think it is more accurate and
then and the reason it's not just like a religious
(40:28):
intolerance, which I'm putting in air quotes is because like
Jews, I don't know if a lot of people know this.
It's common knowledge Jews are not like other religions and
that we are an ethno religion like we are of a place.
There was no such that I don't know if the word like Jew or
whatever the translation would have been in in Hebrew or
America or whatever in ancient times.
(40:48):
I don't know if that was a word.We were Israelites before we
were Jews. There was when Jesus Christ was,
you know, he was Jewish and thenwhen he was like, no, actually
I'm the Messiah. That was when everybody who went
with him became a Christian and everybody who didn't became
known as a Jew. But before that, we were the
people of this land who were, you know, the descendants of the
12 tribes. And so, so like we are a people
(41:12):
as much as we are a religion, which is why like when I met my
husband, who's not Jewish, he was like, how can you be Jewish
and agnostic, which I'm more andmore leaning toward, I think
there's a God, but I, but when Imet him, I was agnostic.
He was like, how can you be Jewed?
Like the first commandment is I'm the Lord your God.
Like he's very much a rule father blower.
And I was like, no, no, no, no, no.
Like part of yeah. If you're like an Orthodox Jew,
like a fundamentalist, sure. You've, I think you've got to
(41:33):
believe in God. I don't want to speak for them.
I'm not Orthodox. But like, it's OK.
You can believe what you believe.
You can be like a cultural Jew where I'm not sure that you can
be like a cultural Methodist forfor example, can you be like a
cultural Baptist? I'm not sure.
Yeah, that's a good question. But like there's a like there
is, if you do 23andMe, you can see like I'm X percent Ashkenazi
(41:55):
Jew. And that's not a belief system
that you're seeing in your blood.
That's a genetic thing. So, you know, and when the Nazis
wanted to kill you for being Jewish, it wasn't because you
kept kosher or you didn't, or you went to synagogue every
Sunday or Saturday rather, or you never did.
They didn't care. It was your, if you like, you
know, if your great grandparent was Jewish, like you were
Jewish. They didn't.
Care. It was just a genetic.
(42:15):
Yeah, it was Jewish blood and so, OK, so and OK, OK, I got off
the topic, but basically the anti-Semitism was anti Jew.
OK, anti Zion or Zionists are. And this is another thing that
irks me. I feel like there are a lot of
people right now who have defined what Zionism is, but
they are not Zionists. They are people who have just
(42:36):
decided what it is and their Zionism is Jewish people's right
to self determination. That's all it really is.
And and Israel is considered like a Zionist nation because it
is a homeland for Jews where Jews can go and be citizens.
You can live anywhere in the world.
But if you are Jewish and you want to claim citizenship in
Israel, you can do that. And it's a haven.
(42:59):
It's not just a haven for Jews. It's also like the only place in
the Middle East where you can begay.
Like it's a it's it's a special place and you know, whether so
people, but OK, I'm getting off I'm.
There's a lot of no, I know it's.
Basically, there's a lot of, I feel like there's a lot of this
narrative of there's an oppressed and there's an
oppressor and the Israelis have and the Jews have fallen into
(43:23):
the category of oppressor. And there's this narrative that
the oppressor is a white colonizer.
And it's really, some might say it's debatable.
I don't think it's debatable. Like, I don't think historians
say it is debatable whether Jewsare indigenous to the land of
Israel. But that's kind of, I guess what
some they say is up for debate is that this isn't the Jewish
(43:44):
land. The Jews kicked the Arabs out in
1948 when Israel became a state.But my understanding is there's
always been an option for A2 state solution and the Arabs
have never wanted it. They have always said all or
nothing. Like there was like Clinton
tried to facilitate peace talks in the 90s and they were like on
the verge of creating a 2 state solution where everybody could
(44:04):
coexist. And the Arabs said no thank you.
And so I think my understanding is the compromise was the Arabs
got Gaza and they had elections.I believe their last election
was in 2006. They elected Hamas.
They've never had a real election since.
Hamas has taken all their resources and created this like,
jihadist terrorist group. And for people who don't know,
jihadism basically says that like, you are better off being
(44:28):
in heaven, dead, dead in heaven than living in this terrible
world where like gay people should die, like Jews should die
every. So these people, like we are not
operating on the same paradigm, fighting a war with Hamas.
Like they don't see things the way we see things.
And so it's very disturbing to me that everybody is saying by
everybody, I mean, like a lot ofliberal progressives are saying
(44:50):
that the Israel, you know, Israel is committing genocide
when when they're attacking these Gazan civilians.
What's really happening is Hamasis hiding in hospitals.
They're hiding in tunnels underneath schools, hospitals,
wherever. They're hiding among civilians.
And Israel wants to take them out.
They do not want to kill Gazan babies.
That's the narrative that's being pushed.
(45:11):
Yeah, no, I and I know and you know, I get just from the
outside in my exposure, which is, I mean, obviously it's
limited. It's all coming through whatever
the news and TikTok and Instagram.
But and all our algorithms are different.
Oh, I know. It's like what you see is
probably not what I see. Oh, right, right, right, right.
Absolutely. I'm sure that's true.
And we know this. I mean, we know this tactic, we
(45:31):
know this tactic of hiding inside hospitals and it's just,
it's just a nightmare. Like I didn't know Hamas like
till you just told me this. I didn't know Hamas was the
elected governing force. I thought they were sort of
like, well, but look at our country right now.
If people looked at our country and they think we're a bunch of
Trumpers, we're not. We, we do not.
I don't agree with that leadership and yet he's in
(45:54):
quotes. I'm going to say elected even
though now. Who knows?
Who knows but the point, yeah. Well, in all of us to say like
this is what frustrates me the most is that whatever the
politics are happening in Israel, like I I don't know
anybody that agrees with what Netanyahu is doing.
Like no matter what he's doing, I think many people would agree
and has gone too far. It is not OK.
(46:15):
He is a megalomaniac. But also it's not OK that Jews
are being targeted worldwide or anywhere.
Like why are we responsible for the Israeli military?
Why is that? Why are elderly Jews getting lit
on fire on Pearl Street and the Boulder City Council
presentation? Adams can't say that's not OK.
Why? Why is that even in question?
(46:36):
Like, why have anti-Semitic attacks gone up like anti Jewish
attacks like gone up with like over 400% in the last like year
and a half? That to me is completely,
there's no reason for that there.
I mean, there is. The reason is Jew hate.
I feel like people are looking for somebody to blame and it's
easy enough and and Jews are this weird category of like,
well, Jews aren't really oppressed because the stereotype
is we are rich and powerful. And that's like, it's really, I
(47:00):
feel like the over the millennia, like there's a joke
that every Jewish holiday is they tried to kill us.
They didn't let's eat. And it's a it's a joke, but I
love that. That's traumedy right there, you
know, and because you have to because it's true the.
Reason they've always tried to kill us is anti Jewish hate is
sort of has shape shifted over the millennia to be whatever
(47:20):
people hate in that moment is what they envision the Jews to
be. So right now it's like the white
colonialist, the white oppressorand they're like that's what the
Jews, that's what Israelis are. But if you go to Israel, most of
them are not white presenting anyway.
And is it really colonialist if you do have some claim to the
land? Like it's just, it's very
complicated and it is. Very complicated.
I mean for sure, for sure, for sure.
(47:41):
Let's say that, I mean, let's say that and I have listened my
son and I have listened to podcasts and YouTube and tried
to understand the, I mean, the history there is so, but then
all of a sudden 1948, I mean, that's still really recent
history and just, well, you can't answer this, but I, I
mean, you just, I don't, I can'timagine, but I, I have to wonder
(48:03):
if it's for the highest good. Was it for the highest good to
try to have this? I don't know.
I'm not a fan of religious countries.
I say it, I just think it gets weird when a religion gets into
the constitution, which is what they're trying to do here.
We're trying to become these Christian nationalists.
I'm not a fan. I'm.
Not a fan either. I, I, I have mixed feelings.
I don't know. I will say I don't, I, I
(48:26):
understand. Like my husband is like, I don't
want to be part of any religion and I'm like, I respect it.
I get it. I get it, I get it, I get all of
it. And my own religion has, I feel
like a lot of richness and I don't want to give that up.
And I will just say this, like when European refugees, they
like, came on ships to the United States in the 1930s and
(48:47):
40s trying to seek asylum from the Nazis and the United States
turn them right around and to their deaths.
So like, that's I think the impetus for Israel being
established as a Jewish state right after the Holocaust.
Like, OK, like this is a place where these people can just.
Trying to find a safe haven but in the in the middle of.
I know surrounded by their. And then, yeah, we don't know
(49:08):
the answers, but we thank you for the dialogue.
Sure. I hope it was helpful.
I hope I wasn't too all over theplace.
No, no. It.
Wasn't I do think we all want the same things I think we all
want. Peace.
That's the. Thing yeah, and I think we want
to understand and I think this whole thing, this conflict used
to sound bites that people can glom onto and that's where.
It's tricky. No, it does get tricky.
I mean, look at this country. I mean, that's why I bring it
(49:28):
right back here. Here we are sitting on stolen
land in Boulder, Co with a street, Arapahoe Ave. and, you
know, the Chief Niwat, you know,I know up.
I mean, it's just we're all on stolen land.
That's what's really complicatedand how, I don't know, I got to
say the evolution of man, I'm not a big fan.
Like living in cities and I'm having countries.
(49:51):
I mean, the whole thing is kind of insane.
If you if you agree. I mean, there's a there's a
sociopathy and like we have evolved to this point of
othering. And I'm not like, I don't even
like patriotism. I don't like religion.
I wish we could. Can we all just eat mushrooms
and be part of the one that's? What I want, I think yes, that's
what I really. Think the I think this.
(50:12):
I think we. Found the solution.
Mushrooms are. I think of everybody, everybody
and especially the leaders of our country.
If you would please eat the you know, the wisdom, you've seen
fantastic fungi, the intelligence of the fungi.
We don't even understand I. Haven't seen the documentary, I
just experienced it. So you have experienced the.
(50:32):
One this and I I but I think it comes back to this idea of we
forget and remember again, we break and we come back again.
So I'm like hopeful that even though everything feels so
broken that this is just part ofthe bigger picture that like we
can't see because we're in it yeah, but we're just little
specks. I know we're.
Small I love that Lily Tomlin search for signs of intelligent
(50:54):
life. Did you ever see her?
But that's what she had a character in there talk about
parts work. You would love it Does a lot of
parts work. Her inner, the inner teenager in
that one is like, you're a speck, you know, like we're all
a speck. And it was like a funny line.
But we are. And I'd be disempowering, but
empowering at the same time. Yeah, you know, back to the
original 1. It's like, you know, coming back
by the fire. Hey, here's what happened over
(51:15):
here and. Well, I mean, to your point of
like, can't we all just be 1? I don't know.
I hope so. But I feel like what we do, like
on a stage with a microphone andmaking everybody laugh, that's
like a microcosm of the one. Yeah, we're all together having
this shared experience and we'relaughing.
And it's not exactly a campfire.It's like our modern campfire.
It's like, yeah, it is to me, that storytelling.
(51:36):
It's about like, that's healing.That's like medicine for our
communities. And you hope that that'll be
like a ripple to outside of yourcommunity.
Yeah, that's to me like. Like this?
I hope that, yeah. That's where it's at.
I love it. I love that we're ending on
that. I love this conversation.
Thank you for dropping in, beingreal and taking us some tough
(51:56):
stuff. It's fun.
Pam Moore, thank you so much, and we'll see you next time.
Thanks Dancing. I want to thank my guest, Pam
Moore. Please go to the show notes.
She sent me a lot of links. Get some resources for Bell's
Palsy. I want to thank my son who just
(52:17):
walked by the door. I thank my son who created the
music loop for traumedy and I want to absolutely thank you.
I want to thank you the listenerfor being on this Co healing
journey and let me know if you have a subject that you'd like
to have covered. Remember, no matter what, keep
laughing.
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