Spirits in the Soil - Teeth in the Dream - Troubled Minds Radio

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
But I think because to them and admit the intelligence
he ends up that you are and race.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
It's a fine object. If we don't know what it is,
I would hope somebody has turning it out.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
I don't know whether luck or whatever, but I will
be five, you know, uncle, the derection they would probably doing.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Okay, I'm glad the Pentagon VIC is an opposing threat.

Speaker 4 (00:25):
I want them on.

Speaker 5 (00:26):
Till the craft generates its own gravitational field and he.

Speaker 6 (00:31):
Could of lightening guy.

Speaker 7 (00:34):
The internet has to come the comment, send them the
criminals and terrors.

Speaker 8 (00:45):
Let it happen, you know.

Speaker 6 (00:46):
That's that's what we're expected to see.

Speaker 7 (00:49):
Rosser Area fifty one Avian kept deep under the ground.

Speaker 9 (01:09):
The media that's gonna happy.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
It doesn't interest at.

Speaker 9 (01:17):
The self sertain you're here, follows.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
You're listening into trumpe Mines Radio broadcasting live from a
slip of bunker just off the Extraterrestrial Highway somewhere in

(01:54):
the desert sands outside of Las Vegas, from somewhere from
space time loosely labeled Generation X on plenty Earth and

(02:15):
asking questions of you in earnest into the digitalist.

Speaker 10 (02:30):
Well head.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
You good evening and Welcome to Troubled Minds Radio. I'm
your host, Michael Strange. We're streaming on YouTube, a, rumble x,
Twitch and Kick. We are broadcasting live on the Troubled
Minds Radio Network. That's KUAP Digital Broadcasting and of course
eighty eight point four FM Auckland, New Zealand. Tonight's We're

(02:51):
Gonna Go a Little Guy. A hypothesis. Now, this is
when I heard back in college, and I thought it
was endlessly fascinating because it's well, it's about a self
regulating system. It's about an idea that we are just
part of this larger aspect of not just the planet itself,
but a larger level consciousness that recognizes when it's sick,

(03:13):
that recognizes its own ill It can recognize its own
illness and even to some degree correct the illnesses itself.
I say itself, because I'm talking about an entity, and
the entity, of course is planet Earth. Now what does
that mean. It's complicated as usual. A lot of the
ideas we talk about are complicated and weird and wild
and wonderful and funky and all the things that come

(03:34):
along with it. So just remember, as part of these
ideas go, it is just ideas. There's no truth to
be found here, just ideas. And if you're looking for
truth through in the wrong place, that's that all the
disclaimers do apply.

Speaker 11 (03:47):
Now.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
I was going through, as usual, going through some of
these ideas to formulate a show because I want to
find something interesting, something we kind of haven't covered too
much in the past. You know, I don't like to
read tread stuff. But you know, we've covered so much.
It's been a almost eleven hundred episodes or something. Who
knows how many we threw away, So we're way up
there in terms of ground we've covered. And it's a

(04:08):
wild thing to kind of be in the spot of well,
you know, so what now, Well, here's one that we've
never talked about. And you may like this. I hope
you like this. I like this. This is from Live
science dot com and this is recently. This is just
published two days ago. And have you've seen this or
seeing sort of the effects of this, the downwind effects
of the wolves being returned to Yellowstone, You might go

(04:32):
this is a very interesting concept. As part of it,
let me read a little bit of the article to you.
This is a wild The headline reads this return of
wolves to Yellowstone has led to a surge in aspen
trees unseen for eighty years. Okay, very innocuous start here,
but that's just the beginning of the sort of a
ripple effect of the return of these wolves to the ecosystem.

(04:53):
Check it out straight from the article. Yellowstone's wolves are
helping a new generation of young aspen trees to grow
tall and join the forest canopy, the first new generation
of such trees and Yellowstones Northern range in eighty years.
Gray wolves, we've talked about them in the past, of
course in terms of the dire wolf, which we can
kind of retreat a little bit tonight as part of it,

(05:13):
because imagine a dire wolf in this same circumstance. But anyway,
Cannis lupis, the gray wolf has had disappeared from Yellowstone
National Park by nineteen thirty, following extensive habitat loss, human hunting,
and government eradication programs human meddling once again. Right Without
these top predators, populations of elk grew unfettered at their

(05:34):
peak population and estimated eighteen thousand elk ranged across the park,
chomping on grasses and shrubs as well as the leaves
twigs and bark of trees like quaking aspen. This stopped
saplings from establishing themselves, and surveys in the nineties found
no aspen saplings. None none, zero in the nineties, okay

(05:56):
zero quote you had older trees and then nothing on underneath,
Luke Painter, and ecologist at Oregon State University and lead
author of the new study, told Life Science. But then
wolves were reintroduced in nineteen ninety five and the picture
began to change. As wolf numbers rose, the elk population
in the park droply dropped sharply, and it is now

(06:18):
down to about two thousand. So the elk population up
from eighteen thousand, reintroduced the apex predator into the ecosystem itself,
and now the elk or down to two thousand, which
is that's a lot of elk that have been eaten
or again not allowed to thrive and grow as they
were sort of unfettered. However, suddenly everything else starts to change,

(06:39):
not just the system here of the aspen trees, but
also the beavers started to flourish and many other aspects
of Yellowstone started to change just because they reintroduced it.
It was not that many wolves it was like twenty
or thirty. I'll find it exactly here. I got Blankstone
the description. If you want to read up on more
of this, I think it was fourteen, the first time
they actually re introduce them. Now the question comes as

(07:02):
part of this, is that do you think we should
tamper with this at all? For first off, we did
tamper with it by sort of eradicating the wolf population
from Yellowstone to start, we were instrumental in that these
government programs, you know, hunt the wolves down, you get
money for gold or whatever. It was sover for a pelt,
a wolf pelt. So we were incentivized to eradicate them

(07:23):
because of course they were attacking livestock and other stuff.
You know, they were deemed a nuisance, problematic. But once
they do this, suddenly everything changes, every damn thing changes.
And so we meddled with it, which changed the entire
ecosystem of Yellowstone Park. But then beyond that, we remeddled
with it by reintroducing these wolves into the ecosystem itself.

(07:45):
You see what I'm saying. And so the question for
you guys tonight is this, I'm thinking about this in
terms of the GAIA hypothesis. Now, the guy a hypothesis is,
as I described, the Earth is a self regulating entity.
It is sort of its own quasi consciousness and maybe
even alive. And do you think things like this could
possibly make the Earth ill, cause some sort of sickness

(08:09):
to the Earth itself? And what does our meddling do
in sort of these larger cascades of an ecosystem, Because look,
Yellowstone Park is one thing, but we live in the
larger world where that's just a part of the larger world.
As are we accept humans dominate the planet certain parts
of the planet. I would not argue that humans dominate

(08:30):
the Amazon rainforest. However, you get my point. And so
the question really becomes twofold number one. Do you believe
in Gaya hypothesis? Do you think the earth is actually
a self regulating entity of some sort? Two? What larger
cascade effects happen as part of something like this? If

(08:52):
twenty wolves or thirty wolves or just a very small
group of these wolves can change so much in one
small space I mean, Yellowstones really big, but a smaller
esque space in terms of the larger hole, what what
are humans doing? Are we making the earth stick itself?
And how do we stop this? And and not to

(09:12):
be doomer or mean or mad or any of that stuff.
Like I said. You know me, I'm a glass half
full type of guy. But I'm seeing these memes go
around where it says things like nature is healing, okay,
And they'll have these young young tweens, children playing old
school musical instruments, not doing AI music or you know,
ripping beats on their laptop. They're actually playing, you know,

(09:32):
they're playing guitars and bass, and they're singing, and they're talented,
and it is so pure and it is so wonderful.
And indeed, you got to wonder in moments like that,
is nature itself actually healing? And so there's the glass
half full part of this, because surely we've overstepped in
some degree. How do we fix it? And do you
believe any of that stuff I said is remotely true?

(09:54):
Because of course I don't know what to think. I
do know this experiment with the wolves says us a
lot about the rippel effects of entities within an ecosystem.
But we're just talking about this national park. What about
the larger earth itself? And is it possible that Gaya
as the Guya entity can become ill. That's what's all

(10:16):
my mind tonight. I hope you guys are doing well.
I'll come say hi in a moment at the bottom
of the hour. Sorry, I ran out of time. When
I'm reading about this stuff, it just I get lost
in these rabbit holes of well, you know, what about this?
What about that? And so I end up reading a
bunch of stuff, and then I take a little too long,
So I'm sorry about that. I'm trying to learn as
much as I can about this so I can bring
you good information. Anyway, be right back. More trouble Minds
coming up in exactly one minute. Love to hear your

(10:37):
thoughts on this. As usual, we're taking your calls and
all the places as you would expect. I'll tell you
about that when we get back. Don't go anywhere. More
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Speaker 2 (11:51):
If you haven't checked out that track, i'd appreciate if
you do. Again. A good friend paid to sponsor the show.
Let's show some love and go check out Alien Skin
by Tremble on iTunes. I'd appreciate that very much. Guys,
if you have not yet, I know some of you have,
please go check it out. As you heard, the song
Plane in the Back was, of course the song we
were talking about. Now, now back to this. This is

(12:12):
from Greater Yellowstone dot org and these links are on
the description if you want to check it out. Like
I said, there's a really bizarre cascade effect to this,
but I just want to do a quick timeline. They've
got a nice timeline eighteen seventy two. Yellowstone as created
as the first national park eighteen eighty four. The State
of Montana Institute's a Wolf Bounty AH eighteen eighty four.
Right trappers received one dollar per wolf killed. Nineteen fourteen

(12:34):
to nineteen twenty six wolves are considered a decided menace
to the herds of elk deer, mountain sheep, and antelope,
and concerted efforts to exterminate them were mounted. At least
one hundred and thirty six wolves are killed in Yellowstone
National Park forties to seventies. Wolfpack sightings are rarely reported
in Yellowstone. Observations of wolf like canids, mostly singles and pairs,

(12:55):
are reported intermittently. Almost hunted them to extinction in the space.
Wolves are almost completely eradicated in the lower forty eight
in the seventies, and intensive survey finds no evidence of
a resident wolf population in Yellowstone, although individuals likely pass
through well five didn't find any of my breathren there,
and it seems spooky as if they were hunted to extinction.

(13:16):
I might not hang around either anyway. Nineteen seventy four.
The gray wolf is listed under the Endangered Species Act
of nineteen seventy three, YadA, YadA, all the things you
would expect. The eighties, wolves re established breeding packs in
the northwest Montana. Nineteen ninety one, Congress directs the US
Fish and Wildlife Service to prepare a draft Developmental impact statement.
The eis on wolf Recovery in Yellowstone. Nineteen ninety four,

(13:39):
the Environmental Impact Statement is completed for the reintroduction of
wolves into Central Idaho and Yellowstone National Park. It happens
nineteen ninety five. January two shipments of wolves arrive in
Yellowstone National Park from Canada, totally fourteen wolves. The wolves
are transferred to three acclamation pens near the Crystal, Rose
and Soda Butte Creeks in the park to attune their

(14:00):
homing tendencies so they stay in the greater Yellowstone ecosystem
once released. March ninety five, the gates of Crystal and
Rose Peak pens are opened and a fence is created
by biologists too encourage the wolves to leave. By March
thirty first, all of the wolves on those pens have
made their way into Yellowstone National Park. Now January ninety six,
another seventeen wolves. Blah blah blah. So the present since

(14:22):
the reintroduction the wolves have established themselves back in the ecosystem.
The number of wolves and packs has ebbed and flowed
over the years, but the population currently hovers around is
stable ninety two one hundred and ten wolves within the park,
approximately five hundred are present throughout the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem.
Wolves are again asserting a positive influence on the ecosystem
by playing a critical role as ecosystem engineers and Yellowstones

(14:43):
natural processes, and bringing an estimated eighty three million dollars
to the park's gateway communities through wildlife watching. Now that's
a weird way to measure this, but anyway, you see
how suddenly this from eighteen seventy two to the present,
we meddled like hell with this space, and of course
it changed the larger that guya sickness as I'm describing it,

(15:04):
just became unbalanced. Okay, Now the weird part I'm calling
this tonight. As you know me, I like to get weird.
So we're going to get weird because what the hell right,
I'm calling its spirits in the soil, teeth in the dream.
Now that'll make sense in a minute here, But basically
that and if you look at some of these lengths
I've also dropped below. It's wild to consider that not
just let's say rivers re established. Shout out our friend rivers,

(15:25):
shoutout rivers as part of this, because the beaver population
started to thrive because of these aspen trees that are
food and also fuel for the dams they built. So
they were fortifying the rivers and changing the ecosystem itself,
the land itself because of the natural resources available because
they didn't have the overgrazing of elk Okay. You see

(15:46):
how suddenly everything starts to become this different place as
a result of this apex predator really kind of put
back into this and this is one of the ones
that's wild to me. So perhaps the most astonishing change
was the rivers themselves. Shout out rivers. As vegetation anchored
the banks, soil erosion slowed dramatically. Willow and cottonwood roots
held soil in place, narrowing and deepening the streams. The

(16:09):
water flowed more steadily with less sediment clouding its path.
Beaver's dams created pools and wetlands, further stabilizing stabilizing water flow.
This shift wasn't just cosmetic. The very shape and behavior
of the river transformed, illustrating how predators can literally reshape
the earth beneath our feet. And there's a fantastic rite

(16:30):
upon this. Again, this is from Discover Wild Science, talking
about all the different ways that this one ecosystem was
impacted by about a population of one hundred wolves reintroduced. Now,
like I said, it's an incredible thing to think that
one hundred individuals in this granted large space, Yellowstone's a

(16:51):
big place, could change all of these things simply by
their presence, simply by their predation habits, simply by re
enter reducing balance into that larger Gaia hypothesis. Now with me,
you know me, like I said, I like to get weird.
Let me check my notes here, make sure we're on
pace for what I want to say. And yeah, So

(17:11):
that's where this begins. As as the larger context of this,
the Gaya hypothesis, it's very clear that small changes can
turn an entire ecosystem upside down. Now, think about humans
in that same context, what have we done to the world. Again,
We meddled with Yellowstone to make this happen initially, and
then we remeddled to sort of bring back that equilibrium,

(17:33):
so we think. So I'm suggesting I don't really know,
because who really knows what an ecological equilibrium would look like.
It's been debated for decades at least, and it will
be continued to be debated forever. But okay, so here
we go. So Yellowstone rewilding, wolves, reintroduced, elk behavior, change,
aspen trees regrow, rivers stabilized shout out rivers. So yeah,

(17:55):
and this is called a trophic cascade when again, something
happens in the ecosystem that changes so many different things,
kind of downwind of the initial aspect the wolves in
this case. Now, So, but the question I have again
regarding the gaia hypothesis, and we'll get to that at
the bottom of the hour. But as usual, I'd love
to hear you guys instead, but check it out. So

(18:17):
is there something deeper happening here with that the entity,
the entity known as Guaya herself that becomes the wild
part of this, because not only is this effect proven
here that things can change again, the rivers themselves deepened
changed course because of the beavers and all the rest

(18:38):
of the stuff, because of the trees and the elk,
and that again the trophic cascade is part of this.
But what else changed when the wolves came back? Why
does it feel in this case more than just ecology.
And that's exactly the point of this. And like I said,
I've been reading about this for a very long time
and on and off, and I was fascinated by this happened,

(19:00):
this entire thing, and we're still probably just measuring this.
This is brand new. We'll probably be probably still be
measuring this one hundred or two hundred years in the
future in terms of what this ecosystem becomes as part
of the return of the wolves to this space. Right now,
the other thing that got me thinking about this was
that it seems like equilibrium is necessary or sorry, let's say,

(19:23):
an apex predator and sort of that fear of the tooth.
That's why I'm calling it this time. I'll explain this
in a second. Here, I'll explain it right now. So
spirits in the soil, teeth in the dream. Now, teeth
in the dream comes from basically that apex predator. Like
the forest is no longer safe. You're out there and
there's a pack of wolves. There are several packs, three
different packs of wolves that you might get caught up

(19:45):
in and you know, dispatched and maybe made a meal
of And so suddenly it brings a terror like that
primordial terror to the forest, like we talked about. When
it comes to the actual reintroduction of these life larger
what would you call them? The dire wolf? Right, the
dire wolf is part of this. Now follow me on

(20:08):
this and see if this makes some sense planning. The
Liberator posted this, and I was thinking about it in
terms of the wolves. So to me, this is the
most beautiful quote from the First Matrix. Agent Smith says,
did you know that the First Matrix was designed to
be a perfect human world where none suffered, where everyone

(20:29):
would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would
accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Now, of course
he's talking about crops as people. People were the crops
of the matrix. They were the batteries that powered that
secondary post human collapse aspect of the machines. Okay, so

(20:51):
entire crops were lost. That was people. So our mind
rejected the idea of a perfect harmony of actual no suffering.

Speaker 10 (20:59):
And.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Let's call it a synthetic equilibrium. Here you go, it
gets better. Some believe we lack the programming language to
describe your perfect world. This is Agent Smith again from
the Matrix. But I believe that as a species, human
beings define their reality through misery and suffering. Maybe also

(21:25):
maybe not. Of course, there needs to be some challenges, right,
And as we were moving closer and faster into that
post labor future, post labor economics, possibly universal basic income,
which scares the hell out of me, what comes next?
And is it possible to unwild the space, the entire earth,

(21:50):
and where we reject it collectively as agent Smith said,
happened in the first matrix, and also sell my mind
to that. There's a lot of ways this kind of
comes together. I'll talk about the guy a hypothesis when
we come back here. But I don't know, do you
think this stuff is real? And why is it that
one tiny change like this can change everything? And look
what we've done in the Industrial Revolution and all the

(22:13):
things that have happened in the past. So let's say
two hundred years on Earth, what have we done? Have
we made Gaya herself ill from our presence? And it's
so is it possible that nature itself can return? Nature
is healing? Is what the actual meme goes like, and

(22:34):
you know, there's a lot of wholesome ways to consider
that as yes, indeed, but of course us meddling with
it in the first place is what made it ill.
So I don't know what's your take on this. Do
you believe in the guy a hypothesis? And as we
get into this and back to where where we started
the I call it spirits in the soil teeth in

(22:54):
the dream. And you know me, one of my favorite
theories is the primordial nature's spirit, the will of the wisp,
the sentient plasma entity that's been here forever before humans
were a twinkle in evolution's eye, and maybe they're still
here in some way actually guiding us through these ecological

(23:16):
disasters or showing us the way by proving we can
fix what we broke before. But also philosophically, is there
ever any going back? Can you fix what has been
broken ecologically? Or natt blots on my mind tonight, I'm
saving the weird stuff for later. We're going to get weird.
Love to hear your thoughts on this, Spirits in the

(23:38):
soil teeth in the dream. And why is it that
in the terms of the matrix, we rejected pure harmony,
synthetic equilibrium. Why is it that we have a sixth
sense within us, within our intuition that describes that, notices that,
and rejects it outright? Does that sound like human nature
to you? I'm not sure what it sounds like, but

(23:59):
I do know that there's something stirring, not just in nature,
but of course with the machines themselves. So when these
ideas come together, what does it look like? What else
do you know about these wolves reintroduced? Anything else wild
that we should consider as part of the reintroduction of
a long forgotten species? Yeah, that's so's on my mind tonight.

(24:23):
I've got lots of more to get to love to
hear your thoughts on this seven two one zero three seven.
Click the discord link at Troubledminds dot org. We put
you on the show. I don't know, as usual, no
answers for me, just more questions. And when we start
to look at these larger concepts of ecosystems and how
we impact it, how do we make it perfect? Is

(24:43):
it possible? One more time? Seven O two nine one
zero three seven. This is Troubled Minds on Michael Strange.

Speaker 12 (24:48):
Be right back more on the way.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
In the dark woods, Nature's heartbeats strong, missusess below with
the night all around. Return of the Wolves brings the
silence to lie heating guy a Soul, the wild spirits rose.

Speaker 13 (25:27):
Here the house night and come through the trees is
sky a Sun revived, Brothers by her.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
Side, Parkins on the path.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
A dance off love and bowl Hunter and the haunted
ribbons of the.

Speaker 9 (25:53):
Life.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Wease through the night.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
It's wild cause it's the sky rest ration sight schools
playing that thor.

Speaker 13 (26:06):
Here the Heart Tonight and go through the trees Skuya
Son revived, Brother's Fine her Son Bounce returns from you
to the moon, Silver Nights, Freedom lost not found in

(26:31):
shadows You Night Here the hewt Tonight and Gone through

(26:52):
the tree is Sky of song, Ravine, Brother's fine her sign.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
All right, Welcome back to Troubled Minds. I'm your host,
Michael Strange. We're streaming on YouTube, rumble x, Twitch and Kick.
We are broadcasting live on the Troubled Minds Radio Network.
That's KUAP Digital Broadcasting and of course eighty eight point
four FM Auckland, New Zealand on the Underground Media Network.
Tonight's Tonight tonight, What if the return of the wolves

(27:35):
wasn't just ecological recovery but a planetary ritual, an ancient
defense mechanism reactivated to purge spiritual infection. Of course, in
the guy a hypothesis, could the Earth itself summon predators
as antibodies, relighte geomantic circuits, and drive out unseen parasites
through mythic pattern alone. And if that's true, what else

(27:57):
is still capable of remembering? And of course what we're
describing is that that primordial memory of an ancient equilibrium,
which feels like we're always trying to get back to
in some capacity. However, I think it's you know, in
a modern world, I think that idea of equilibrium in
nature is going to be a challenge. You guys have

(28:19):
seen the versions of like Star Wars Coorissant where the
planet is just nothing but skyscrapers that go into the clouds. Yeah,
I feel like we're you know, you think you think
that world feels like it there's a natural equilibrium with
its predator prey relationships and the plant life and all
the flora and fauna to mention, I don't know anyway,

(28:41):
So what do you know? About the guy a hypothesis.
What do you know about this, these wolves reintroduced to
Yellowstone and what does it mean for the larger context
of this trophic cascade? Because clearly, if this can happen
in Yellowstone, what about us? What level of trophic cascade
do we actually implement on planet Earth herself? Seven two

(29:03):
one zero three seven Click the discord link at Troubledminds
dot org will put you on the show just like this.
Chef Pete, what's up, brother, Welcome to the Joint. Thanks
for listening for so long. Thanks for popping out. I'm
doing well. Yeah, yeah, I'm clear. You sound great. Welcome
to the Joint. What's on your mind? Go right ahead.

Speaker 6 (29:18):
Thanks.

Speaker 14 (29:19):
So, this is what I'm thinking. I look at wolves
on land as the sharks of the of the sea
sharks with a sea without sharks is a dead sea,
And I feel like a land without wolves is a
dead land. Everything keeps everything in a balance, and you

(29:43):
need that, you need that, And as far as we're concerned,
we just play in something that they've let us do.
That's really how how I feel the wolves really being

(30:05):
introduced to Yellowstone. They're they're keeping that balance and the
sharks in the sea are keeping that balance as well,
and I feel like it's very important that we all
try to play in the in the right sandbox.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yeah, it's it's an interesting aspect of it too, and
I wonder sort of I talk about those control mechanisms
that that mess with humans in general, and so our
sandbox would be what I mean, stick to the cities
seems very dystopian, It seems very you know, a New
World Order twenty thirty type stuff. What's that agenda twenty thirty?
But then also I can see a future where we

(30:43):
do turn into that coruscent alien planet where it's nothing
but skyscrapers that reach the clouds all over the damn planet.
I mean, there's got to be a way here, and
you know we're trying, clearly, there's people working very hard
on this because we have to be able to figure
out and figure this out in some some way, some
actual way that works for everybody and everything, because as

(31:04):
you see again the incredible part that the rivers changed
because of the beavers, and the beavers are now flourishing
and changing the actual landscape of Yellowstone. It's it's an
incredible thing here that we never dreamed would happen, but
we're seeing it before our very eyes as sort of
this ecological experiment, which is all of It's incredibly wild
to me and I've been wanted to talk about it

(31:25):
for a long time. But what do you think about
the guy a hypothesis itself? Do you think that there
is something to that self regulating organism as like a
larger entity. Does that make sense or does that seem
to pseudoscience for you?

Speaker 3 (31:39):
No?

Speaker 14 (31:39):
No, No, I think it totally makes sense. What I
think is is the world is going to take care
of itself and we're just playing a part in it.
And I really mean that.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
And something else is going to come along and.

Speaker 14 (32:02):
They they may take over, or something may evolve and
that might take over, and we will either have to
adapt and change hopefully, or we will have to.

Speaker 6 (32:19):
I don't know, go to Mars or some shit.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
Sorry yeah, sorry, now you're good. Yeah. And that becomes
like a very interesting side note as part of this,
because that's that's kind of what we're being told in
the uh, you know, the bubbling in the zeitgeist is like, well,
you know, if we screw this one up, there's always Mars,
which is like Uh, that's a lousy plan. Be guys,
can we stop saying that? Can we just start? Not you,

(32:42):
I mean the powers that be suggesting that's the case.
It's it's a wild thing to say.

Speaker 6 (32:48):
No, and it's a terrible plan.

Speaker 14 (32:51):
I what I would love to do is make this
place right, But I don't know that that's gonna happen.
And I don't think that is the ants are either,
and I don't know if aliens are gonna come and
save us either. So I'm just saying, like, we need
to take care of the the animal population. We need

(33:15):
to make sure that you know, they're getting taken care of,
the wolves are getting taken care of, the sea needs
to be taken care of because without the see, the
whole thing could go to.

Speaker 6 (33:30):
Hell in a hand basket. And that's where really I'm
at on it.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Yeah, I think so. And as usual, right, we have
a terrible habit of waiting way too long to kind
of fix some of these things that are obvious and
need to be changed now for other shiny objects. And
you know, I won't get into the climate catastrophe and
all the all the stuff they're always telling us about,
you know, the cloud seating and all this other wild
stuff that is literally happening when there are obvious issues

(33:59):
like like you said, plastic in the ocean. There's so
many things that are destroying, like the largest ecosystem on
the planet, which would be the ocean itself. And I
wonder once again, through this idea of a trophic cascade,
what happens when, as you describe, maybe all the sharks
do die. The trophic cascade, of course will come to
the land because there is a place where those ecosystems overlap.

(34:19):
There are places that are highly dependent on commercial fishing,
not just for money, but for food. It's just a
wild thing to think that every little thing we do
on this planet will have these cascading effects that are
immeasurable sometimes for centuries. And so as usual, I think
we should just be a little more careful when we
make decisions, and we should be vocal as hell when

(34:40):
something obviously is happening and they're breaking the earth in
front of us that you know, is a politically expedient
thing in the moment. What else you gott Thanks for
listening again, So just real quick, Pete here has been
listening for a very long time to troubled Minds and
popped into the Discord recently, was like, hey, thanks, I've
been listening for a while. I'll call in one of
these days. And it lives at Pete lives in Georgia
and is a chef. That's all we know about him.

(35:02):
That's all we need to know about him. And a
longtime listener, first time caller. I appreciate that very much.
Anything to add about Troubled Minds in general, or the wolves,
or the Trophy Cascade or what else you got for us.

Speaker 14 (35:13):
My man, man, I've been I've been loving all the episodes.
I went back and did some folklore episodes, listened to
some were Wolf episodes and D and D episodes. I'm
a big D and dre, so that's always fun. I've
just been really loving it and I'm happy to be

(35:35):
a part of the community.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
Glad to have you.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
Appreciate the call. You're welcome back anytime now that you
know where to find us. The Discord's pretty easy, right
you figured it out a very first first shot, one
time shot and you're in. Yeah, I like second Tom,
but yeah, right on, fair enough at least in this community,
first time in year. Appreciate the call. You're welcome back anytime.
And I think you're absolutely right. It's an incumbent on

(35:58):
us to make sure we demand better, as I always say,
and of course with the ecosystem itself, it's it's everything.
If we screw it up, we're screwed. To Pete Pleasure
meeting you finally, I think, go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 14 (36:09):
I think we've already screwed it up, but I think
we can repair it enough for a few generations to come.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
I also believe so because if we look and this
is my take on most of that stuff we got here,
we got us here. We screwed it up in many ways,
but it doesn't mean it's it's dead. It means we
can fix it. We can recognize the error of our
ways and correct it. It is the human way. Pleasure, brother,
thanks for being part of this, Thanks for the call,
and I look forward to talking to you soon enough.
A great night, Okay, thanks by going to you too.

(36:41):
Appreciate it very much. There you go. That's Pete Chef
Pete in Georgia and making friends all over the world.
It's nice to hear some of the individuals who've been
listening for a long time, just on the podcast and
haven't hasn't really contributed to the live feed, so thank
you for that. And we do have two groups, by
the way, there's like the live group right the chat,
the live chef chat. There's the people that call, and

(37:01):
then there's like there's a ten times that audience is
basically the podcast feed. So there's a ton of people
that listen and kind of you know, lurk but don't
chime in too much. So'll Papa comments sometimes and send
me a nice email, but for the most part, there's
you know, not a lot of overlap there. So thank
you for again. Nice to meet Pete there and a
pleasure brother, thanks for the call and thanks for listening.

(37:22):
We're talking the Yellowstone wolf introduction, okay, and all the
different things that it changed as part of that ecosystem cascade,
that trophy. What's it called. It'll come to me in
a second, that's the term. It's a cool term. But basically, look,
what are we doing to the planet as humans If
just one hundred wolves can change the entire complexion of

(37:44):
Yellowstone Park itself. There's eight billion people on the planet,
and do you think that in terms of the guy
a hypothesis we've made her sick. You think she's ill,
you think she's sick of us? I don't know. I'll
give it a good solid maybe that's my take, But
what do you think? Two nine seven one zero three
seven Click the discord link at Troubleminds dot org. We'll
put you on the show just like this. Let's go

(38:06):
to Kelly in Colorado. Thanks for being patient, my man,
you're on Trouble Minds. How are you all right?

Speaker 1 (38:10):
It?

Speaker 15 (38:13):
Giddy b Michael?

Speaker 9 (38:13):
How you doing?

Speaker 16 (38:14):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (38:14):
Pretty good? Pretty good. I was waiting for the you
to bring my energy down. Always a chilling. I talked
too fast until you show up and then it slows
me down, which is fantastic. Welcome to the joint. How
are you, sir? Welcome? What's on your mica?

Speaker 15 (38:29):
Righthead old on, let me move the other real question?

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Yeah, no problem, no problem at all.

Speaker 15 (38:38):
Oh right, good. So this is a good show tonight.
I'm just kind of based on some topics that I've
talked about before. But like with Gaya, right, so, I
mean I believe that it is. It is what we're
talking about, kind of, you know. So what I look
what I look at too, is like I can't actually

(38:59):
been sharing and a lot of stuff, right, So you
have a lot of like animals going extinct. Right, But
then years later they started showing up. I mean they
just heart popping back up, right. Like I've showed some
videos where these it was a bird they were looking for.
It was in this jungle, right and these and I
think it was like in popping New Guinea sound. But
I mean they were amazed to even see the picture

(39:19):
of it because it was supposed to be a mid
extinct for like thirty forty years.

Speaker 14 (39:23):
Right.

Speaker 15 (39:23):
But what's interesting is that you find these, you find these, uh,
you find these all these animals that were like you know,
it doesn't matter like insects or what like. So if
guy had like remaking these things, you know, these things
popping up out of caves, were able to see these
things again because it's fixing its own ecosystem, right. I

(39:44):
mean you have for example, like so that's a tanka, right,
the buffalo, Right, the buffalo were running the planes all
the time, right, and at the time before all the
settlers came in, right, you know, all the buffalo they
were eating all the prairie grass, the big tall prairie right,
that's what they would eat that's most of the stuff
that they were eating. And these prairie grass, you know,

(40:05):
once they were lowered to the ground, but they had
root systems that were you know, that were like almost
feet six feet long.

Speaker 16 (40:11):
And when the.

Speaker 15 (40:12):
Industrial farming came around, you know, they started ripping all
that stuff, killed all the buffalo ripped all that stuff up,
and then we guess what happened. You know, we started
having all those dust bowls, right, all those ancient dust bols,
because they were they were replacing all those deep roots
that the old prairie grass had with you know, like
industrial farming where the roots didn't even go down that far.

(40:33):
So I mean stuff like that. You know, you could
look back in history and see some of that stuff, right,
So like, yeah, for example, you see a lot of now,
so maybe there was a bird that went extinct, right,
or because you're starting to find a lot of this
like that's destroying forest everywhere, these beetles, right, the beetle
killed they call it. Here in Colorado, you have a

(40:56):
lot of that stuff keep going on, right, So I mean,
there's got to be a predator to every creature on
the planet, right, That's what we know, because there's always
want something bigger, right, bigger and batter. But you find
that mother nature she's gonna fix herself all the time, right,
and it might take her a little bit time. But

(41:17):
you know what I mean, we don't even need to
actually even add anything to it. I don't believe, I mean,
because we're like example, you hear about those radiations that
are over like in Chernobyl. Right, they're worried about all
the chernobyl, all the radiation there, and now they're finding
out there's mushrooms that eat all that, all the fungus
that eats all the radiation over there, right, I mean, yes,
you can plant like plants like cant you know, hamp

(41:41):
straight industrial hamp and that that'll actually clear out a
lot of radiation and there it'll filter all the radiation
out of the ground and in the air. The vibrational
frequency of the plant actually goes against the radiation frequency.
So you can do all kinds of stuff like that,
you know, I mean, like planting Like the Japanese guy,
he was the scientists that was finding that out, and

(42:02):
that's why they were planning that stuff around Chernobyl before
you know, I hit Japan. So that's what they were
doing there now. But you can also use stuff like
now where we use for like some of our gardening
we done said it, like sprays these I buy a
lot of lady bugs right and right now I get
I'm thinking about buying some bats, some like bat boxes

(42:24):
to get rid of a lot of these insects around.
For the place I just moved at, you know what
I mean, there's a lot of farming here, so there's
a lot of insects that night. He can use a
lot of chemicals or whatnot, but I'd rather prefer, like,
you know, bringing something that brings dragonflies. Plants, you know,
you can bring you know, put plants there where dragonflies
come in, or you can you know, like bats, you know,
get a bat box and they attract the bats to

(42:47):
the you know, they live up in there, and you
can control pets that way. Or there's a lot of
birds here too. You know where I'm at, They like
rid in my front front yard. There's a big tree,
pine tree in there, and so there's a ton of
them there. But yeah, man, I believe that she's gonna
she's be able to fix herself, I mean, and that's
why you get like old volcano earthquakes. I mean, we

(43:08):
look at you know, back in the past, right and
you see that like lands that are sunk into the oceans, right,
or like they say, like on the Middle East, some
of the places where they had they were all lush,
you know what I mean, like in Babylon and stuff
like the hanging hanging plants, you know what I mean.
But now you look at it now and it's all desert,
Like how how could that happen? That's because she fixes herself,

(43:30):
you know. I mean, whether you know we're actually helping out,
you know, not doing it, do you know, do diligence
to it?

Speaker 6 (43:38):
Right?

Speaker 15 (43:39):
You know what I mean? As human as living creatures
of this planet, we're we're doing a very shady job
right now.

Speaker 6 (43:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
And I think there's a lot of studies that have
been done in many different ways that we could implement
some of the stuff, and like you're describing, there are
natural ways to combat some of the you know, nuisance
the bat box in particulars that you brought up.

Speaker 6 (43:59):
Now.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
When I was young, I spent a lot of time
up in northern California right on the Oregon border, and
just beautiful up there, absolutely sort of that idea of
the primordial forest, and you know, don't go too far
and get spun around because you could get lost. I mean,
we were lucky to be in a valley, so you
could kind of easily find your way around, but beyond that,
right you kind of venture a little bit north Endo, Oregon,
and you could get lost. But the reason I bring

(44:21):
it up is because they had this tall light pole
that was out there at night. We'd be out there
at night kind of kicking it and there's so many
bugs just swirling around this thing, and there were so
many bats, like it was the craziest thing I've ever seen,
Like hundreds of bats and thousands of bugs swirling around
this light pole like in this big like vortex. It
was absolutely insane. And then they had like on the

(44:43):
other side of the house a bug zapper that was
just like this thing would like clog up in like
two days full of bugs. Like that's how crazy it
was in the summer. But it was like again that
invisible bit like this is going on all the time
the world over, and some of the things you don't
notice until you see them in your face at gale
like that, and you're like, damn, like some bats are

(45:04):
eating well tonight, I mean, absolutely crazy. That's one way
to handle it, isn't it.

Speaker 15 (45:08):
Yeah, it is, you know what I mean. That's been
actually pretty I'm sitting here smiling almost laughing. You kind
of imagine that happening, you know what I mean, watching
that as it unfolds, all those thousands of bugs and
hundreds of bats. That've been pretty crazy to see.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah, it happened every night in the summer too, every
single night. You could set your watch by it's so crazy.

Speaker 15 (45:28):
That would have been pretty cool. But yeah, I mean, yeah,
you use stuff like that, you know, and but like
with like, like I said, it was for me what
I've been. You know I've been. If you've been on
Discord a long time, you see where I sometimes I
post stuff, you know, i'd see is coming off of
Facebook or like, but they're all like news ads, right,
but they're they're talking about extinct animals, right, that are

(45:53):
just popping up out of nowhere, you know what I mean.
So that's kind of like what you know, part of
the show tonight is like that's what I was thinking,
Like are these things coming out of aids or like
they're just popping up? I mean because these things are
supposed to be dead for like sixty years, forty years,
twenty years, ten years, you know what I mean. And
next thing you know, they're taking pictures of it, you know,
freaking out that these animals are walking around now. But

(46:16):
maybe it's the planet, like we've been saying, you know
that she is alive, right, Maybe is she the one creator,
the creator of these animals? You know, they whatever animal
of this planet, you know, I mean, you might be
able to kill it off for once, but it's gonna
come back one way or another, you know what I mean.
I don't know how, but you know you'll see that
throughout you know, in sometime in like in some uh

(46:39):
like news news. You know, they'll PLoP up somewhere. You know,
if you got if you look, you'll see it. Man,
or you can even just google it or whatever, go
whatever you use. But yeah, man, that what they excites
me because it's just like mind boggling, is how's that?
How's that even possible?

Speaker 6 (46:57):
You know?

Speaker 15 (46:57):
I mean you think that they'd have to have a pair, right,
you got to have a mate i mean male female
and then create a you know something. But they sometimes
they don't even find that they just find the one
again by itself, you know, and then makes you know,
there's an explosion of them.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Yeah. Well there's even still whispers in Australia of the Thilocene,
the Tasmanian tiger. They say, they say that they're out
there in the bush and they're spotted here and there,
and so we're told they're extinct and they're going to
recreate them in the lab and then maybe reintroduce them,
you know, as part of those ecosystems down there, which
I mean I'm split on. I mean, that's cool, but
you know it's once again it's meddling, but it's trying

(47:35):
to fix the metals that we made bring the past.
So I mean like like like like that's the point, right, Like,
how do you fix it? We screwed it up for
short in a lot of ways, But how do you
fix it? Because if you if you overcorrect and this
becomes a very human thing. Well, you know, we broke that.
So here's what we're going to do to overcorrect it.
Then you just break it in a different way, so
that becomes as usual, that equilibrium of the guy a

(47:57):
hypothesis that's intuitively we know, we feel that, but again,
you know sort of science just has its way of
you know, hey, let's let's make some dire wolves, like bro,
there's a lot of other problems we need to handle
before we start reintroducing the dire wolf to the please
please right.

Speaker 15 (48:17):
It's so crazy, yeah, you know, for me, I kind
of look at it as this though, like okay, science, right,
we can start cloning stuff, right, and then we can
introduce it back to like where like you just said.
But the thing about it, like with that, I believe
that would be even better than trying to do what

(48:37):
we have done. I mean, because we've messed a lot
of things up, right, So like you know, for instance,
they had like this fish from China, right they could
they was trying to combat something, right, and that fish
actually fished the problem, but then they became an an
invasive species. So then you have invasive species everywhere. Right
now you're just messing just pour up the whole equal system.

(48:59):
So well, instead of doing that right like we, like
you said, fixing the problem, you maybe cloning would be
the issue. It might be the fix to it, you know,
I mean not overpopular, but given to where you know,
you regulate stuff like you know, in Alaska. For example,
when I was in Alaska, you couldn't overfish, right, you
couldn't like rake the ocean, you know. You everybody was

(49:20):
limited to like you know, sometimes it was unless you
were like you know, you use that for like dip netting,
you know what I mean, like salmon and stuff. Right,
So salmon, you can, like if that's one way you're
feeding your family, they would allow you to dip net.
But like if you were just you know, sports fishing
or something like that, you can only have you can
only take two. And believe me that they're out there
in force up there in Alaska, you know, the for

(49:42):
service and stuff. They don't play around up there. They'll
take your truck or RV everything you have over there.
But if you're messing around, you know, poaching and stuff.
But yeah, you regulate, you.

Speaker 6 (49:52):
Know what I mean.

Speaker 15 (49:53):
Like sometimes you know, just even like like the lasting
key crab, both guys are only allowed someone, right because
they're trying to keep it the population going. So that
way is, you know, throughout the years, instead of just
constantly raping like humans used to do, you know what
I mean, when we were I mean, there's some countries
that still do that you know, and they need to

(50:13):
be they need to be put to a halt to
some of that. But I mean, I mean, if they've
been doing it, you know what I mean, Like there's
got to be a control now, you know what I mean.
Now that we know that, you know, we can't be
doing all that stuff, you know what I mean, You
can't be just raping and taking like that anymore, because
you know, again, Earth will fix yourself. She always has, yeah,

(50:34):
up to.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
And including uh, just casting us off like a bad
case of fleas. Like like if we're the problem, Earth
will sort of adapt to us and make it hard
for us. And that's and that becomes hard. And then
also long after we're gone, recorrect herself back to that equilibrium,
the natural equilibrium. And like I said, we're speaking different
languages because not you and I, but humans versus the Earth,

(50:57):
because we we think we know, but in these complex systems,
we don't know a damn thing. We can kind of
take anecdotes and little studies here and there, but again,
just these wolves and Yellowstone have changed everything in like
twenty or thirty forty years, like imagine two hundred years,
the equilibrium that kind of comes back it's I don't know,
it's a wild thing to consider, and it's welcome to

(51:18):
the world we live in. Huh, what else you got?
I got about a minute left. If you got anything else,
then you're welcome to stay after if you want.

Speaker 15 (51:23):
Well, not just going to finish up too though, But
like you were saying too, like you know, all those elk,
you know, the massive herds of elk, that's what we
have started having here in Colorado's so they started introducing
wolves back here too. But the thing is, it's just
like that, you know, like they were eating all the
acid trees, right, the young saplings, and we know that,
you know, the acid tree is more like one giant plant.

(51:46):
So if you're going to constantly eat one or like
one area where it wants to grow, you'll never see
those trees again. You So now you got to introduced wolves.
You're going to now take those, you know, limit some
of that herd, keep it down to numbers. And that's
how you're gonna, you know, control because I mean they'd
notice that. And a ton of things, you know, I
mean like the reef, the Great Barrier reef and older

(52:08):
in Australia. I mean, they're real protective of that, you know.
I mean I have stories about that one in the Navy,
but like that'd be for some other time. But yeah, man,
I mean you could see that. I mean, introducing to
like these animals like that is only going to help,
you know what I mean. Just like you're brought up
with the dams, with the you know, with the beavers
and stuff like that. I mean, it's if you're over

(52:29):
That's what I'm saying. We can't just rape the earth
and think that it's gonna be all fine and dandy,
you know what I'm saying. So anyway, man, good show
tonight and talk to you guys later. And guys, have
a good evening.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
There's the best great call. Tell mi shall we said?

Speaker 6 (52:41):
Hi?

Speaker 2 (52:41):
Always a pleasure and take care.

Speaker 15 (52:45):
All right, brother, Let's have a good one you.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Too, Kelly and Colorado. You know, if you love him,
he's the first guy to call and then call back,
still still friends years later. What do guys think of this?
I'm calling it spirits and the soil teeth in the dream.
What about the apex predator? Why is it necessary? What
about the guy hypothesis and equilibrium itself? Seven two, nine,
one through three seven be right back. More Trouble Minds
on the way, don't go anywhere. Welcome back to a

(53:32):
Troubled Minds. I'm your host, Michael Strange. We're streaming on YouTube,
we rumble x, Twitch and kick. We are broadcasting live
on the Troubled Minds Radio Network. That's KUAP Digital Broadcasting
and of course eighty eight point four FM Auckland, New Zealand. Tonight,
we're talking about this live science article wild Stuff. Return
of wolves to Yellowstone's led to a surge in aspen
trees unseen for eighty years. Now, why is that the case?

(53:55):
Because the apex predator reintroduced has trimmed down the elk
population by like eighty five percent, which we're chewing on
the baby aspen trees, not allowing them to grow and
basically decimating the entire population of aspen. And so it
gets weird when you see the cascade effect of that.
Now all these other trees which are allowed to grow
have this cascading effect on the beavers as well, who

(54:20):
now have these extra additional trees they were not used
to having because they were overgrazed. And now they start
building more robust dams and there's more beavers now because
now they have more shelter and more food and all
the rest of the stuff. Right, But it's also changing
the landscape itself. The rivers are becoming deeper. It's actually
changing the way they flow because of the way the

(54:41):
beavers build their dams. Now, it's crazy to think about,
you know, one hundred wolves in this massive space can
alter so many different things. And there's some links in
the description if you want to check out what it is,
not just a timeline, but the actual cascading effect of
the wolf reintroduction to this ecosystem in Yellowstone. But anyway,
what's your question here is what about that guy a hypothesis?

(55:02):
If one hundred wolves can do this much change in
thirty or forty years, what has humanity done to Earth
in five thousand years? You see? And is equilibrium achievable
in a GIA hypothesis? Ecosystem seven two nine one zero
three seven Click the discord line of Troubleminds dot Org. Dearlin,
New York. Thanks for being patient. How you doing Tonight's

(55:25):
go right ahead? What's on your mind?

Speaker 10 (55:27):
Him?

Speaker 17 (55:27):
Michael? Can you give me okay?

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Yep, coming through loud and clear. You sound great.

Speaker 17 (55:31):
Great terrific.

Speaker 18 (55:32):
All right, this reminded me of we did something about
You talked about Meo Stung who eliminated the sparrows from
China because they were eating all the grain. And it
wound up, you know, the repercussions for that wound up
in thirty million people dying because they couldn't eat the
mosquitoes and they couldn't eat the you know, uh, the

(55:58):
other you know things that were in there, like food
chain that resulted in a loss of all the grain
and they couldn't you know, pollinate anyway.

Speaker 17 (56:09):
It was, it was they thought it was a good idea.

Speaker 18 (56:12):
He thought it was based on science, you know, that
we could get rid of rats, we could get rid
of mosquitoes, we could get rid of sparrows, and then
we won't have any problems. But it really backfired very badly.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
Yes, yes, real quick, let me fill in some blanks there.
It's called the four pests four pests campaign maos China.
And yeah, so they basically put a bounty on these birds, okay,
and so it was above the great lead forward. So
authority targeted four pests, rats, flies, mosquito, sparrows. But what happened,
of course, was that the sparrows were responsible for eating

(56:47):
a lot of grain. But once you killed off all
the sparrows, which they did, then suddenly all the insects
that the sparrows were eating ate way more grain than
the sparrows ever did. So you called, yeah, you caused
another another problem by trying to fix the problem that
you had, which was if you had done nothing, you
would have been better off. But absolutely right, the four
sparrow's campaign, or sorry, the four pests campaign is what's called.

(57:09):
But yeah, go gret ahead, thank you for bringing that up,
because that's a fantastic way to look at this.

Speaker 17 (57:13):
Absolutely yeah, what of of one of mistakes?

Speaker 18 (57:17):
So they thought they'd put a bounty on the wolves
and then suddenly they had you know, too many elk,
and then they ate all the you know stuff, and
then the beavers couldn't make their dams, and then the
whole place fell apart, so they had to reintroduce that.
And there are you know, depending on who you read,
there's something called the ripple effect. But then there's then

(57:41):
if you read who's who's doing the studies, there's a
big one on the World Economic Forum is talking about
climate change, and you know, how we're going to save
the Earth, et cetera. So there's two different points of
view for sure, if you're you know, reading about this.
But the mostant things, basically are the largest creatures like

(58:03):
the blue whales and the elephants, that they're responsible basically
for a lot of carbon. They store about you know,
eight for eight point four. I don't know, a lot
of carbon. So when they die, their death releases like

(58:25):
like thirty seven billion tons of carbon dioxide per year
and they, you know, this feeds like all these tiny
organisms like forty percent of all carbon dioxide. Phytoplankton also
produces fifty percent of the worlves oxygen. This is what
they so they feed on the dead whales and then

(58:46):
we need those phytoplankton to produce our oxygen so we
could breathe.

Speaker 17 (58:52):
So this is all you know, these are all the
ripple effect.

Speaker 18 (58:56):
You know, this is very important that we you know,
we have a balance of nature, and I guess it
balances itself out. But we introduced they talk about how
they're invasive species, so there's the ripple effect. Other people
are studying. But invasive species is all full of World

(59:18):
Economic Forum, and you know, the United Nations, et cetera.
So I don't really want to go into their studies
because I don't support their views. You know, it depends
on who you're reading. You know, I think I'm going
to go with the ripple effect people. They're definitely more

(59:38):
you know, ecologically sound.

Speaker 17 (59:42):
You know, they think that, you know, the ballance can
be fixed.

Speaker 18 (59:47):
They're much more positive about this, and we have to
definitely protect Protecting the whales, protecting the elephants are pretty
much the most important thing.

Speaker 4 (59:59):
You know.

Speaker 17 (01:00:00):
The ocean pollution is a mess.

Speaker 18 (01:00:02):
And yeah, you know, I was talking about this the
other day, why are they whales beaching themselves? Like why
did these mammals, these sea mammals like commits suicide?

Speaker 17 (01:00:13):
What's awk with that?

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
You know, they're they're a complicated species. I mean, you know,
you know what's the beautiful thing about that is soon, hopefully,
cross your fingers, we'll be able to communicate with them.
Imagine when we're able to sort of decode their their
their cries in the ocean and like actually recognize I mean,
or I think was it dolphins? Maybe recently we discover

(01:00:34):
that they have unique names for themselves, like they call
they call each other exact names that they're kind of given.
In the first six months of their life, they and
they even create their own name, right, something to that effect,
and then once they say something unique, that becomes their name.
And like, that's the type of stuff that as science
starts to develop, we're going to be able to decode
this stuff and maybe find out why why they do

(01:00:56):
beach themselves and the other bizarre behavior that they do,
because they seem like again, you know, short of the
killer whale, but a lot of the whales in the
ocean are very kind. They seem to be you know,
they want to communicate. They come to the surface and
they hang out with boats and they're like, hey, what's up.
You know, my name's Jimmy.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Who are you?

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
It's crazy, it's I mean, it's it's beautiful, it's wonderful.

Speaker 18 (01:01:16):
No, they want to make contact with you. But isn't
it illegal to communicate with dolphins? Suddenly after the army
used them for you know, some like war time, you know,
communications or you know, they were doing sending.

Speaker 17 (01:01:33):
Messages, but using the dolphins.

Speaker 18 (01:01:35):
Dolphins are so smart, you know, they were manipulated by
you know, the military, and now it's somehow it's illegal
to to do too much communicating with you know, you
can't give them your cell phone number, you can't like,
you know, text them or anything.

Speaker 17 (01:01:53):
That's illegal.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
I hadn't heard. I hadn't heard that at all, which
is super hilarious because it doesn't surprise me that that
regarding uh, they're like, oh, well, we can kind of
weaponize dolphins, so now we're going to make it illegal
for you guys to talk to the dolphins. I mean,
that's that's very government stuff. Yeah, that makes sense, it was,
but I hadn't heard that.

Speaker 17 (01:02:10):
I thought I heard that here. I thought I heard
that here, but.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
Maybe I got a small memory. Sorry about that.

Speaker 18 (01:02:17):
I think you told it to I don't know. It
was definitely on this show. And get somebody else to
validate that because I heard it here first. And there's
also the sharks that we think, are you know, so dangerous.
They also have they're scavengers to eat anything, even license
place in old tires, so they're almost like, uh, you know,

(01:02:39):
the garbage. They're like the garbage disposal for the ocean. Practically,
they're pretty handy to have around, so they're important too,
you know. So we we we've got to you got
to keep the balance of nature for sure, you know,
just like in Yellowstone and I had one more thing

(01:03:03):
or two more things to mention. Sure, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
this is just silly. But you know, you know why
the t rex one's extinct. No, it was a reptile dysfunction.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
That's that's my favorite one of the past month, Daryl,
I love it.

Speaker 10 (01:03:25):
What else?

Speaker 18 (01:03:26):
Yeah, I've said this one before, but it's more saying
again tonight for the subject. You know, hummingbirds have existed
for thousands and millions of years and they still haven't
learned the words yet.

Speaker 17 (01:03:39):
Okay, that's all I got.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
You were the best. Appreciate you very much. The cosmic
comic Darryl.

Speaker 6 (01:03:45):
You know you love her.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Please go give her a follow on all the places
Troubleminds dot org Ford sized friends. Scroll down. It's alphabetical.
It says follow Daryl here. Go check out our YouTube channel.
Go leave her a nice comment and join the discord.
Come say hi, come meet these amazing people. Like I said,
these folks again, I've known any of many of you
guys have been calling me for a long time. Many
of you we've hung out sort of off the show.
On the weekends on Discord or whatever. These people, I'm

(01:04:08):
telling you, as great as they see them on the show,
and they really are. They are ten times one hundred
times greater when I'm not interrupting them or making them
talk about dolphins or rit whatever, because I bring wild ideas,
but kind of free flow conversation with some of these
just incredible folks will blow your mind. Come meet them.
Please follow Daryl Troubleminds dot org Ford slash friends. Scroll

(01:04:29):
down a little bit. It is alphabetical. Daryl's got a
YouTube channel right there, see it on the screen right
in the middle of Daryl. And she's got some stuff
on morgallon. She's got some stuff, some paranormal stuff on
the channel, and she's of course uber talented, sings in
English and French. And you could join her, by the way,
on karaoke sometimes on our discord. So if you haven't
joined the discord yet, all that stuff again is on

(01:04:50):
Troubledminds dot org org slash friends. You can see that
right there. Follow Darryl. But of course on the top
join the discord is the blue button. Come say hi,
Come meet these amazing folks. And like I said, the
only rule is just to you know, recognize this isn't
about truth, It's about ideas, And I get it. Everybody
has their own truth, but let's share it together in
the nicest way possible. That's what Troubled Minds has always

(01:05:11):
been about. Thank you, Daryl, You are the best as
you know. Appreciate it very much. What do you guys
think about the conversation tonight? Like I said, we're talking
the Gaya hypothesis. We're talking about these wolves, which is
the reintroduction of these wolves into the Yellowstone ecosystem, which
has this cascade effect, which again it's only one hundred wolves,
but it's changed so many things in just thirty or
forty years. So how wild does this get? And how

(01:05:31):
ridiculous is it when we're talking about the Gaya hypothesis
and how we fit into that larger system. I don't know.
I don't know if there's a good answer for it,
but I do know there's a lot of ways to
look at it and a lot of ways to think
about it. What do you think? Seven point two nine
five seven one zero three seven Click the discord link
at Troubledminds dot org. We'll put you on the show
just like this speaking of amazing people. Uh, Ricky in

(01:05:54):
the Tri State area. What's their brother? You're own troubled minds?
How are you certain? Go right ahead? Good?

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
Good?

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
How about you man? You get no complaints out of me,
just doing trouble mind stuff, hanging out with a smart
and amazing people. What's on your mind? Go right ahead?

Speaker 15 (01:06:07):
Uh?

Speaker 8 (01:06:07):
It just reminds me, you know. And I think Kelly
even set at the very end. I just I got
home a little late. So if it somebody has brought
this up already, I apologized, but uh, Jim went a
little over. But I was looking at it and they've
been It's it's amazing how how nature can it really
knows what it's doing.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
You know.

Speaker 8 (01:06:28):
It's like uh uh you know, uh Chernobyl over there.
You look the the the the animals and stuff are
thriving over there in Chernobyl and stuff like that. So
nature is kind of putting itself back together. And and
like the reintroducing deduction of animals and stuff. You know,

(01:06:49):
I heard it for just a second, but like the beaver,
the beaver been reintroducted a lot of areas like well
we're gonna try this and they put the beaver back in,
you know, because they were very well, you know, we're hunted.
And people were like, man, the beaver building dams, and
and people go in there and blow the dams up,
and you know, just hate the beaver. You know, the
beaver is terrible. But they you turned around and look

(01:07:12):
and they toctually there was I was trying to look
it up real quick.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
I couldn't.

Speaker 8 (01:07:18):
I couldn't find it quick enough, but there was. It
was I think in New York, I think it was,
or I forget what state it was. But they actually
turned around and within just a short amount of time
actually they put put them back into this area and
just a short amount of time to beaver actually cleaned
up the water and and turned everything around in this

(01:07:40):
in this river that they thought they thought was going
to take years to do and having you know, us
just using the beaver to turn back around and take
care of it. And and they've been doing that a
lot of places. And and because like talking about so
many beaver like purifies water naturally because they put the
dam up and the water has to kind of strinkle

(01:08:02):
through their dams, and and it's they're amazing, amazing creatures
and like the wolves, you know, they you know, it's
nature has to be balanced. And when we go through
there and with all of our human wisdom and all
seeing and we're going there and take out certain items,
we don't understand what it does. I mean, what why

(01:08:24):
is there a reason? There's a reason all these creatures
are in the area, because you know, they work together.
You know, this one feeds this one, this one feeds
that one, and they need that balance of stuff. And
when you go in there and start pulling out different creatures,
you know, and again, as always, I think that I
think the scientists are the ones are going to take

(01:08:45):
us out because they just they just messed with stuff
they shouldn't mess with. They had no idea of the
consequences of their actions. And and and like that, we
you know, they've they turned around and rivers is going
away and areas going away, and you know, like and
now they're finally finally seeing like, hey, we put these
we put the wolves back over here, and we can
bring our parks back together, and we can bring areas

(01:09:08):
back together. Let's put the beaver back over here in
the rivers and let them do their job that that
they were created for you know, and and and so
it's it's wild to see, and it's it's pretty now somehow.
And in the algorithm on YouTube, I caught a few
videos on the beaver while while back, and it was
pretty amazing seeing what they were able to do. And

(01:09:30):
then I've seen one on the wolves too, where you know,
just and then how they're going around different areas and
putting all these animals back where they belong, you know,
and because you know, for whatever reason, either we hunt
them because we hate them, or hunting them for like
the beaver's for their to make hats and stuff like
that back in the day, or the buffalo, and I

(01:09:51):
mean all these creatures. You know that we're part of
the equalsystem that thrived, and we when we start taking
up and destroying, that's when we we had dust bowls,
and we had all kinds of terrible things that happened
throughout the you know years. It was it was all
human interaction that caused this, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
Yeah, Kelly brought that up to that dust bowl bit
and the buffalo of the bison, interestingly enough to so
the return. We started this conversation tonight with the Live
Science article Return of wolves to Yellowstone has led to
surgeon aspen trees unseen for eighty years because the wolves
are thinning the elk population, which were overgrazing the small
trees that couldn't become big trees, and then they were

(01:10:35):
wiping out entire species of trees from the space. So
the wolves come in thin the herd of elk, and
then now there so the beavers are thriving now because
they have more more food, and more shelter and more
material to work with for their dams. And then also
the interesting part about this in the bottom of this article,
they say that there's a let's see that we're not

(01:10:57):
out of the woods yet. So, however, while Yellowstone is
quaking asp and recovering, they aren't out of the woods
just yet. The elk population has declined, but bison numbers
have increased in some areas in recent years, and bison
are a lot harder for wolves to take down. So
I wonder what that equilibrium looks like as the bison
start coming back. I mean, this is and by the way,

(01:11:17):
if you're ever in Yellowstone, I've never been there, but
I see the videos of those stupid people trying to
go pet the bison don't do that, don't some animals,
well they will wreck your car let alone. You don't.
Don't do that. But while to consider that once that
equilibrium kind of becomes a thing, maybe maybe there's fewer wolves.
Who knows, maybe the beavers don't thrive. I don't know,
because there is a non equilibrium in the space currently,

(01:11:41):
and I don't know if you think it's possible to
actually create a natural equil equilibrium as humans in the
natural space.

Speaker 8 (01:11:49):
It's possible. I mean we if you know, it's the
one that kind of bringing, you know, is using the
balance of using what we need, not destroying just to
take for whatever. Where you know, it's I think it's possible.
I was actually seeing it, seeing it, you know, in
that way our industrial world is and I'm probably not,

(01:12:13):
but you know, you know, especially right now where they're
they're ramming up you know, lithium, you know, mining and
all this other mining, and they're trying to get for
batteries for solar and all that. It's it's just it's
gonna be you know, it's gonna be hard to have
that balance of everything. But I can see pockets in

(01:12:36):
the world that we could actually have that you know,
the balance of the humans and the nature and everything
coming together. It's but as a widespread I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
Yeah, I mean again we're talking about probably the most
complicated system is a guy A hypothesis. Right, So we
see that one hundred wolves can change a space. Incredible,
So what do eight billion people do? And my my
hypothesis tonight on the guy A hypothesis is that the
Earth is sick and needs repair. Again, nature is healing,

(01:13:11):
is the meme, So how do we do that? And
again this is one step? But is it good? I mean,
I don't know. It's because it becomes a over correction
maybe of releasing these things into a space that they've
sort of been targeted for extinction from even though from us.
I don't know. It's it's it's it's an incredible cycle

(01:13:33):
of things to consider and how much fixing can you
do before it becomes sort of the invasive species as
a Kelly brought up as well, I don't.

Speaker 8 (01:13:40):
Know, yeah, because I mean it's happened before. Trying to
remember it correctly. I remember when I lived on Guam,
it was glam did ain't have any birds anymore because
they they had they had done that kind of brought
this he over there to they battle this and this,
and they finally brought the snakes over there over there

(01:14:01):
to goom and the snakes ate everything. They made the
birds ate everything. And and so now if you go
over there, there's yeah, there's no birds or anything. And
so you can go to of course, you can go
to extremes and as always and go too far on
certain things. And but I mean, if you're surely if

(01:14:25):
you're looking back and you know, if you're allowing nature
be on nature, you know, like I said, you could
look around you know, areas like Chernobyl and stuff like that.
You look around those areas right now, like the animal population,
the the and the birds and everything is thriving over
there because nobody's over there. There's no humans messing with it.

(01:14:45):
Because everybody says bad over there because you know, and
everything's thriving without human interaction. You know, the balance of
nature and everything is able to take effect. Loans. There's
humans and you know, you know, Uncle Bill them gets
their way. We maybe know, but but it's uh, yeah,

(01:15:10):
you know, it's as long as we you know, well
and well you know, walls, there's humans. There's gonna be
there's gonna be that balance of it won't be won't
be inbalanced because we're we are truly invasive species of
and we cut down, we destroyed, We don't you know,
and we don't we don't balance our stuff. We know
we you know, we build houses, We just you know,

(01:15:32):
a lot of areas.

Speaker 16 (01:15:33):
I see.

Speaker 8 (01:15:34):
It's sad. I me and my mom were talking about
the other day, like there's a big like four or
five hundred year old oak trees instead of like you know, uh,
you know, taking down the little trees and leaving the
big trees and you know, putting houses or whatever. And
they're going through there and knocking all them things down
and burn them and stuff. It's like, you know, it's
sad to see the uh and we and we are
we are we are invasive. We actually really are an

(01:15:56):
invasive species of. And it's a if there was if
the world didn't have us, we would be a bounce
and it could keep saying, but I don't want that.
I don't want that. I want to be here. I
don't want to not be here.

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
Amen, exactly exactly. I'm laughing because I was thinking about
the human invasive species. Imagine taking a floor to man
and dropping him in California. What kind of catastrophe might
have just as a as a as it aside there.
I mean, clearly it's just just a singular, stupid joke,
but you get the point because it does. This does scale,

(01:16:32):
and we I think we are I think we are
sort of that invasive species because of our like, look,
we recognize as a society that we break stuff in nature.
But then I think one of our massive issues, and
I talk about this a lot, is the human hubris
effect of Okay, well, let's let's correct that we have
this over correction aspect of things because we don't think

(01:16:54):
in geological terms. I mean, there's been here for billions
of years, and we're like, you know, let's see some
traction in the next fifty I don't even think that's possible.
I mean we're seeing it sort of in Yellowstone a
little bit with a hundred wolves, but beyond that, I
don't know that like like thinking in human terms versus
geological terms, it's minor corrections of things that will make

(01:17:17):
no difference given another billion years. Anyway, what do you
got just about out of the time. You're welcome to
stay if you've got more go ahead.

Speaker 8 (01:17:23):
Yeah, no, I just you know, I will say, like
cause I live right here by the Mississippi River and
and you know, and I'm g ari uh core engineers.
You know, they've always been They fought the Mississippi River
for years and years and years, and like it's it's
one of them things, like it's going to go where
he wants to go. Truly, you know, they trying to

(01:17:43):
push on it and push and pull, but like you know,
like you know, like you said, in ten thousand years,
it's going to do is it's going to do what
he wants to do, you know, But regardless, appreciate you, Mike, No.

Speaker 2 (01:17:54):
I appreciate you. Thanks for thanks for popping in here,
even though you got home late. Fire stuff is always,
you know, a fantastic you know him, you love him.
That's Ricky anything as possible as the name of the podcast.
You know where to find him, Troubleminds dot Org Forward
Sized Friends. Scroll down a little bit. It is alphabetical
Follow Ricky. Go check out his live streams. He doesn't
on Wednesday nights with Dave and what's the guy's name.

(01:18:15):
They're both They're all amazing. Go check it out. Trouble
Mind's Dotter and fordside friends Ricky right there and click
it's spear Rat Back more Trouble Minds coming up. We
got to Herschel and the Nights Talker and your calls
as well. Don't go anywhere more on the way. Welcome

(01:18:48):
back to Troubled Minds. I'm your host, Michael Strange. We're
streaming in all the places, all the things. Eighty eight
point four FMPK for New Zealand and of course KUAP
Digital Broadcasting that's right there. You can find it a
Troubled Mind or click the black button on top and
it's a lot of nice Yeah, we're streaming on it.
So and it comes in super handy, like I said,
because sometimes if you're if you want to listen to

(01:19:09):
the stream on the on you know, YouTube or whatever,
you have to pay them to minimize YouTube and put
the phone in your pocket and it kind of drops
and you have to go back and keep it, keep
it active or whatever. But this radio station right there,
you here here. Every time we're live on the show,
it goes live to that. You can just hit play
and there you go, bingo. You can you can listen
to us live and hang out with us live without

(01:19:31):
having to pay anybody anything. That's the whole point of
old school radio. I'd love to you guys thoughts on this.
We're talking about, uh what am I call it? Spirits
and the soil teeth in the dream Now, the reintroduction
of these wolves to Yellowstone has led to many unbelievable
cascading effects. The beavers are thriving, the aspen trees are

(01:19:52):
surging as unseen for eighty years, and those are some
of the things that we can't really recognize, as you know,
the ecological human. We can kind of say, well, you know,
reintroducing an apex predator might have some effects on the ecosystem,
but it's having effects that we never dreamed of. And

(01:20:13):
that becomes the weird part, because if you remove one
or change one little thing, suddenly the world becomes very weird.
I don't know, what do you guys know about it?
How weird is this? And do you believe in the
gay a hypothesis? It is one of my favorites. It
is definitely one of my favorites. As I've always said
that primordial nature spirit idea has stuck with me for
a very long time and basically haunted me. Drere suggest

(01:20:37):
haunted me and made me wonder if everything we've been
taught is well not as correct as we perceive it
to be. Love to hear your thoughts. I'll fix the
camera in sex seven or two ninety five seven one
zero three seven. Thanks for bearing with me as I
ramble on and being patient, my friends. Let's go to
a Herschel Herschel in Arizona commercial Herschel The Easytopian podcast?

(01:20:57):
What's a Brother? You're on? Troubled Minds? How are you sir?
Go right ahead?

Speaker 1 (01:21:02):
Oh man, this.

Speaker 2 (01:21:04):
One is just man.

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
We are just a paradox. And yeah, one of the
things one of the things that it shows though, is
it's kind of like human beings made the decision to
reintroduce the wolves. So that means we're capable of making
good decisions.

Speaker 6 (01:21:29):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:21:30):
Sometimes because you can do something, you should do it.
Sometimes just because you can do something, you shouldn't do it,
you know what I mean. Yeah, sometimes we can make
right Sometimes we can make the right decision. I've sat
down here before I talked about like I grew up
near Detroit. There was a river that flowed through our

(01:21:52):
area of the region there, and we were told as kids,
stay away from that river, like you can play in
the park, but don't go down there and play in
the water because it's toxic and stuff. And it was
just a little crick at the time. And then the
auto industry receded and people did some things to try

(01:22:12):
to bring the river back. And I went back to
visit my hometown like fifteen years after I had moved away,
and they were kids fishing over the overpass into that
same river and it had been grown. The flow of
the river was increased and it was healthy enough for
people to fish. I don't know if they were eating
the fish or for his catch and release, but we'd

(01:22:34):
never do that kind of stuff there, you know, and
didn't take long. It took like twenty years for that
to come back, so you know, you can we're capable
of doing the right thing. And one thing that is
puzzling to me is, right, what seems people can't seem
to figure out is that we could travel through the universe,

(01:22:58):
looking space through space, we would never find a planet
as perfect for our species as this one. And it
just seems like all the wrong people are taking it
for granted, like they just take this for granted, like
like they think that there's like it's just I don't know,
I don't get it. It's perplexing and I don't get

(01:23:19):
that mindset in that point of view, you know, I
mean how I mean, we would never they're looking for
a new planets. I'm like, We've got one. Like everything,
every single possible need that we have met is met
right here. All the food you need, the medicine you need,

(01:23:41):
anything you need for shelter, anything to have a nice time,
anything to keep yourself busy, any you know, just it's all,
it's all here. You're here already, We're already, Like we
don't we don't realize that we've already arrived at our destination,
you know what I mean. It's like we keep driving
looking for that, but we're already here.

Speaker 6 (01:24:02):
You know.

Speaker 17 (01:24:02):
It's weird.

Speaker 3 (01:24:03):
And So I have this story I've read on here before,
but I've really been working on it and paring it
down and I want to read it. It's really short,
it's about three hundred words. It's called Kindergarten. I had
a vivid, guided dream about a decade ago that has
stayed with me. In this dream, I was hiking a

(01:24:26):
trail with a friend, and we found a plateau with
a pond where two strangers were, and they invited us
into a tent where a large fire sat in the middle.
We were sweating profusely, and one of the strangers became
my guide and instructed me to look into the fire.

(01:24:47):
As I stared, I experienced an auditory visual hallucination. I
saw that there had been two types of people, those
rooted in their homeland and travelers who were at home
anywhere they went, and previous successful epochs on this planet,

(01:25:09):
these groups understood and they valued one another's role. They
knew the importance that the other one played, and it
led to incredible technological advancements and even space time travel. However,
in our current epoch, this symbiosis failed, leading to conflicts
and genocides throughout history. We left the tent and we

(01:25:33):
were by the pond again and we were instructed to
jump in. And as I descended, I found a light
at the bottom and I swam into the light, and
emerging from the light, I was back on the shore
and my guide asked me, what is your question? And
it was as if he knew I would have a question,
and I realized that my question was how do we

(01:25:55):
fix this situation? Back into the tent we went, and
we were heeded the previous process, and again I had
an auditory visual hallucination. I saw birds from my childhood,
and when they sang, they sounded like dinosaurs, and I
understood that the answer to my question was that we

(01:26:18):
can't change our nature in this epoch. We must do
our best with what we have, as the next iteration
of our species might be gentler, just like many of
the species we see here today are descended from much
more fierce ancestors. Then I woke up. This dream left

(01:26:41):
me with a somber feeling, reminding me of the sissophia
nature of our existence and the challenges we face as
a specie.

Speaker 2 (01:26:53):
Damn damn. Yeah, right, Like I said into the that
was fantastic. Thank you for sharing that. Intuitively we know
these things. But I think that human hubris, that aspect
of our ego, the unchecked ego, is where we start
to break stuff and you know, have these wild ideas

(01:27:14):
because we're like, hey, what if we do this and
this and this and this, we'll fix everything in fifty years,
which is redic I mean that type of stuff. When
you start meddling with the ecology of the planet we
live on, we have a problem, Like you're going to
cause more short term issues probably than fixing long term
stuff because we can't measure in those ecological or geological

(01:27:37):
time scales. As I've said, that's a wild thing. Man,
What else you got? Go ahead?

Speaker 3 (01:27:43):
Well, it makes me think about like here where we
live in North America, and you know, the people the
cultures that were here, you know, that had been here
for a long time before Europeans came here, and they
were it seemed like there was a lot of warning,
like trying to warn them, hey, this is how, this

(01:28:04):
is how you do it, like so that you don't
ruin the balance of everything. It seemed like a lot
of those people that were here had an understanding of that.
And now we're seeing with Lyedre that before they existed here,
their ancestors had massive cities and civilizations here that we
didn't know we're here until fairly recently, you know. And

(01:28:26):
so it makes me wonder if the the.

Speaker 16 (01:28:30):
They got stories from there, like don't repeat the mistakes
that we made, like don't get too big, like don't
get ahead of yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:28:41):
Don't just do something because you can. Because we thought
we were really cool and we had these big, massive
cities and it didn't work out, you know, and like
and like maybe they they were doing their best to
try to live a life that would not repeat those mistakes.
And if that is the case, that is rare, because

(01:29:02):
human beings are really good at just repeating history over
and over again and not learning from it, you know
what I'm saying. So I find that too. I wonder
about that, you know, because you just see so many
stories of the people that were here that you know,
lived here.

Speaker 6 (01:29:21):
Then kind in the.

Speaker 3 (01:29:23):
Europeans, hey, look, you're doing this, You're gonna end up
doing this, You're gonna do you gotta chill out and
just chill out on this and like view this and
do that, and they wouldn't listen to them. Maybe they
had learned their lesson. Maybe their ancestors built those big
cities and everything collapsed, like the Mayans and the Incas
and everything collapsed, and they're like, Okay, let's not do

(01:29:43):
that again.

Speaker 1 (01:29:45):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:29:46):
Maybe that's something I mean pure hypothesis here, just purely speculation,
But like I wonder about that. If they were like
trying to not repeat things, and then they said, oh geez,
here's these people coming here to repeat all that part
those bad ideas again.

Speaker 6 (01:30:01):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:30:01):
Yeah, so instead of the cities, they sort of diffused
into nature as loose collectives that lived in harmony. That
makes sense to me. And also, by the way, funny
enough with the the Mayan stuff and all the rest
of that. Like you said, I wonder how well some
of those cultures are. Maybe maybe we're looking at through
lidar and some of those things you see in the Amazon,
and maybe it's maybe that stuff is like ten thousand

(01:30:24):
years old. Maybe we're seeing two or three cycles of
those things that we haven't even begin to discover yet.
And so it brings to mind, is what is the
guy's name species with amnesia? Graham Hancock, Right, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:30:39):
Yeah, I think of I think that's what that story
is about. Where he's rolling the rock up the hill.
He's rolling the rock up the hill. As soon as
he gets to the top, it rolls back down. He's
got to start all over again, you know, And I
think I think that's what that story is about. Every
time we get and we're approaching that time of that

(01:31:02):
that we're approaching that time of the meteor showers and
our magnetic field weakening as we approach the meteor showers.
So we know it's coming, like this is. This is
somewhat different in that we know it's coming, but we're
not We're not only only small numbers of people are

(01:31:23):
preparing for it, and they're not propagating the reality of it.
But because we have the Internet, we know about it,
and we're like, oh, geez, what if we didn't have
the internet. It was just a big surprise.

Speaker 2 (01:31:36):
Yep, you know, well said as all our billionaires are
buying up, you know, huge chunks in Hawaii of trying
to make the entire island their private island type stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:31:47):
I mean, and they're digging hole. I'm watching the show.
There's a show called Fallout. I'm watching that. It makes
me think about this a lot. It's a series that
was on Society Fiction Series. It's pretty the decent story.
It's based on the game Fallout. And I don't know
about games, but I just sometimes I watch the spin

(01:32:08):
off TV shows of the games, and they're pretty good.
It's a pretty good story, a well written story. Not
crazy about the old climy music, but it makes me
think about this and it shows different variables of different
things that happen, Like there's this group that stayed on
the surface, there's these groups that went underground, and the
different you know, different things happen, different things emerged out

(01:32:30):
of that, and it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
Yeah. I've heard good things about that series too, somebody
at work with or just going off about how great
it was. So yeah, it's on the list. When I
get some time, I'll definitely watch that our stuff. What
else you got for us, my.

Speaker 3 (01:32:43):
Man, I don't have much of anything.

Speaker 6 (01:32:46):
I think that's pretty much.

Speaker 3 (01:32:47):
It's just like, you know, try to keep your head,
you know, and speaking of auditory visual heat hallucinations, keep
your head, hey man, Amen.

Speaker 2 (01:33:00):
Only believe what nothing that you hear, and only believe
half of what you see. We're moving into that space
for sure. You're the best brother. Appreciate you very much. Thanks,
thanks for being as amazing as you are, and thanks
for contributing. And you have a great night.

Speaker 3 (01:33:15):
Cool, good night, everybody, have a good good evening with
See you next time.

Speaker 2 (01:33:19):
Take care. I'm Rushall herschel. Do you know what you
love him again? You know where to find him? Trouble
Blinds dot org Ford sized Friends. Scroll down a little bit.
It's alphabetical. Follow Herschel Easy Toping is the name of
his podcast. He rebranded the name on that commercial. Herschel
is the actual sub stack. Please check it out there
you go, alphabetical Herschel right there, click it, and I
do like to show it off because let's have the competition.

(01:33:41):
He does have the sexiest link tree in the game.
There it is right there by his book All the Places,
all the Things trouble Blind's dot org Ford sized Friends.
Scroll down just a little bit again Herschel. H you
can't miss it. Yeah, yeah, I don't know this. This
whole thing is, like I said, it's been fascinating me

(01:34:01):
forever because I've been following it sort of on and off.
But the more changes, ecological changes that happen, just as
the result of the reintroduction of this this wolf, the
gray wolf in the Yellowstone, makes me wonder about sort
of thatch, which is where this gets weird. The guy
a hypothesis as that living system. Can it be as

(01:34:23):
as we describe as humans sickened by imbalance and then
vulnerable to some level of infiltration of the zeitgeist or
the nose fear as we talk about it, the sphere
of human ideas that are not always the best. I mean, hey, look,
humans are great, but humans can be horrific in the
same space. So I don't know, what do you think?

(01:34:44):
What do you know about this? How weird does it get?
What do you think happens in two hundred years? And
should we be meddling even remeddling the unmetal or the
remedal of the metal that we anyway you get my point?
Seven two nine one zero three seven click the disc
link at Troubledminds dot Org'll put you on the show
just like this. Derek in Massachusetts, what's up, brother? Hey, uh,

(01:35:08):
you're a little short here. If if you've got more
you can say, or if you want to dip back
and come back top of the hour, your call. I
want to give you the options here, but welcome to
the joints. How you're feeling and go right ahead.

Speaker 5 (01:35:19):
I can hang over a few minutes after the break
if that's that's cool. Thanks, starting now.

Speaker 2 (01:35:22):
If you want sure, that's up to you, totally up
to you.

Speaker 6 (01:35:24):
Yeah, yeahtinner, Yeah, this is a cool one. I like
the trophic cascade idea. And I think about that a lot.

Speaker 5 (01:35:31):
Kind of reminds me of or I kind of think
of it in the way we talk about where do
ideas come from and kind of the Rube Goldberg machine,
the mechanism of the universe or of humanity or of
these ideas and kind of what they what they like,
the injection of these ideas and what they end up like,
uh like the ideas of pollinating humanity and the roofs
of these ideas end up with different technology and that

(01:35:52):
kind of stuff. What if this intentional? So like Kelly
was talking about with the mushrooms at Chernobyle that the
eat the radiation. And then there's another like link I
saw the other day about a fungus that's like like
Steve plastic now whatever in this future version of that night.
I tried to look it up and there's an older
one from a couple months ago talking about how there's

(01:36:16):
fungus in the oceans that like, like like to eat
my microplastics. So maybe that's a way that we can
we can get rid of the plastics out of the.

Speaker 6 (01:36:23):
Ocean and everything. So with that, like what if what if?

Speaker 5 (01:36:28):
Like first, what if the shrooms were the ones that
like grow in chernobyl are the ones that end up
eating the plastic. What if somebody kind of like takes
that as a psychedelic where that kis some kind of
vision and what if that what does that vision kind
of lead to down the lot in the same way
that the stoned ape theory potentially led to human like
like the evolution of humans and stuff. So like, what
if there's some kind of goal and goal with these

(01:36:51):
things with the wolves in the trophy cascade, what if
just that area needed the rivers shout ut rivers, Like
what if there was a drought and they needed it
and the earth like would be sentient, But it doesn't
have arms and legs, It can't you know, work its
will in that way. So what if it sends out ideas?
And what if this my celial network or these spores
as like a messenger for just kind of send ideas

(01:37:14):
around this network whatever, And what if the like you
send some kind of spores out into the food source
or into the air of that the wolves are breathing in,
and they get the idea to come into this new area,
and then before long, all of a sudden you get
a river and the the the area is now like
irrigated and stuff, or just like what if they're what
if just for big picture stuff, what if there's a

(01:37:35):
mushroom that really likes plastic and wanted to eat plastic,
and it's like, oh, I heard about plastic from its mushroom.
Friends on other planets heard the whispers, and it's like, oh,
I wish I can get some of the plastic stuff.
Let me, let me get these apes really stoned, and
maybe in a couple of million years, a few hundred
thousand years, still invent plastic and I can eat it.
You know, what if there's a huge time scales like
that and that's why the stone ate there, you know

(01:37:57):
what I mean? What if there's kind of these things
that we think are happenstance, like the end results of
the trophic cascade, end up having an intentionality to it
at the beginning, And what if that's kind of our
like a human role. I want to get there my
point putting that yeah, no, and.

Speaker 2 (01:38:12):
That that's to me when when I'm looking at this stuff,
I'm just like, okay, you know me, I'm weird. And
so you scale it and it does go to those
back to consciousness and back to the stoned ape theory
back to maybe just maybe that control mechanism I'm always
talking about is so baked in so deeply and our

(01:38:35):
intuition is not even ours anymore. It's a natural aspect
of us and the guy a hypothesis. I mean, all
that certainly plays here, and especially when you see, like
I said, go read this article if you haven't. It
links from the description reintroducing the wolves changed an entire river.
Shout out rivers, Here's how it happened. And this type
of stuff we never dreamed as part of that larger

(01:38:58):
cascade effect.

Speaker 6 (01:38:59):
And so.

Speaker 2 (01:39:01):
What else, like a complicated systems. Complex systems are the
bugaboo for the human ego because we're like, oh, you know,
let's do this and we'll fix it, and it's like yeah, brah,
here we go again.

Speaker 3 (01:39:15):
Brou.

Speaker 2 (01:39:16):
I'm not so sure that's that's simple, but okay.

Speaker 6 (01:39:19):
Right, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 5 (01:39:22):
So it's kind of I'm gonna kind of play Devil's
advocate a little bit here, and I think this idea
of them about of percent might be one of the
ideas to kind of support the insanity that the tech
elite have or that any of these like people that
are kind of like like you're hurting us off the
cliff kind of could have in the back of their
mind that allows them kind of to do these things
that they're doing, but just proove for the thought said

(01:39:45):
you asked, like how do we make it perfect? Somebody
asked how do we make it perfect? And like I
said this before, but like what if it is perfect?
And the idea that there is definitely the idea that
potentially we're an invasive species, all the aliens type stuff
or where I don't like the I think that we're
a parasite in the planet or some type of cancer
on the planet. We could be the option is open there,
but I I don't believe that to be the case.

(01:40:07):
So what if so and we are not separate from nature,
We are part of nature. We are part of the system.
So what if everything is perfect? And what if we're
fulfilling some kind of a role that nature needs and
we're seeing it from a perspective that we're like we're
in it. We can't see the forest of the trees
because we're in this thing. But so before like what
if kind of we're like the microorganisms or whatever that

(01:40:31):
are building a chrystalis or like around the caterpillar, which
is the earth that's going to turn it into something
new somewhere in that process, whether you're the caterpillar or
the things doing it, unless you know like the like
the small little cell microorganists that are doing that, we
can't see that are building it. Unless you know the
end goal, you could have some kind of like realization

(01:40:53):
that you're causing havoc. Oh no, we're kind of really
really really webbing this thing up. I hope this catapiller
likes it, or really the destroyer in the caterpillar here
here or like and inside the inside the crystalist, the
caterpillar turns to the goo, turns to ooze, turns to mush.
If you don't know that, like you're turning this thing
into a butterfly, at some point during the process, you're
gonna be like, oh, what are we doing to this thing?

Speaker 6 (01:41:14):
Are we monsters? Are we the bad guys here? What's
going on? No? No, not the caterpillar, it's it's melting.
Oh no no.

Speaker 5 (01:41:19):
And then once it reforms into the butterfly and emerges,
then it's like, like you could that could be the
destruction of of your entire species. The microorganisms that create
the crystalist, might your role might be done. You might
be shut off when the crystalist is shut off. You know,
So for you, that's an apocalypse. That could be the
end of humanity. Like that's could be like going off

(01:41:41):
the edge whatever. And I don't know, but what if
like I'll get more to the point, but like what
if humanity or what if Guaya wants ai What if
Guya wants robots? What if Guya wants a new type
of consciousness? And this trophic cascade, the thing that we
seem to be doing that are like negative to the

(01:42:02):
planet might actually be just things that are leading it
to is eventual destination, as eventual the end of the
tropic cascade. Eventual the river stuffs to flow because it
wanted the wolves to go in there in the first place.

Speaker 6 (01:42:13):
You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, No.

Speaker 2 (01:42:16):
I love it because of course we're merging ideas. And
when you start to look at this in terms of
the matrix or in terms of AI, I mean consciousness,
Like think about that we've created a non human intelligence
or a budding consciousness out of silicon, out of sand,
and so in some capacity here that all this stuff

(01:42:38):
coming together and like I like I read that Agent
Smith quote. Is it feels as if, even in an
artificial space, we reject equilibrium. It's like we want a
little bit of chaos in the aspect or we get mad.
I mean, I don't know. And then so so how
does AI fix that or how does AI sort of

(01:42:58):
merge with that? How does this work? Moving into a
wild time to be alive? And like I said, if
you ever wanted to do a podcast, started in twenty
seventeen and stick with it for several years. Yeah, and
you're on the right spot because the world has changed
more than I could have ever dreamed in terms of
sci fi. But this is becoming reality. About thirty seconds left,
and of course we'll get back to you after the break.

Speaker 6 (01:43:17):
Good.

Speaker 5 (01:43:18):
Yeah, it's funny to think about the the trophic cascade
of us and kind of the like you plug it
away when you don't have that many callers, like I'm
gonna keep doing it. I'm gona keep doing it eventually,
like the river will suck the flow for me, being
like I'm in a busney night, I'm anxious right now.

Speaker 6 (01:43:31):
It might serve me better to not call in. But
I was just compulsion to want to call.

Speaker 5 (01:43:35):
And eventually maybe if it reminds me, would be huge,
you'd be famous, I'll be part of the team or whatever.
And that's the river flowing would and it kind of
needs these things that if we just we can't see
the forest of the trees and these tropic cascades are
leading to something that has beneficial maybe maybe not for us,
maybe for the guy.

Speaker 6 (01:43:50):
Itself or who else. I'll have more examples, we'll get
to it.

Speaker 2 (01:43:53):
Yeah, and maybe you know you're you're perfect. Yeah, stop it,
stop it. You know we love you and you know
it's stop it it more with Derek coming up on
a second here, this is the point of this Spirits
in the soil, teeth in the dream, and it feels
as if those two things are opposites, but I don't
think they are. I think they are a seamless aspect
of what Gaya actually is, and we are part of

(01:44:16):
that system. What do you know about it? We're talking
wolves in Yellowstone, We're talking about Trophy Cascade. We're talking
about what it looks like a thousand years from now.
Seven oh two nine, one zero three seven, be right
back more. Derek in Massachusetts and neuro calls as well,
don't go anywhere. Welcome back to trouble Minds. YadA YadA,

(01:44:45):
blah blah blah, all the things we're talking, spirits in
the soil, teeth in the dream. Now. The guy hypothesis
suggests that Earth is a living organism self regulating is
basically the term what do you believe? And not only that,
how come just one hundred wolves and Yellowstone Park can

(01:45:05):
change it where it's actually changing a landscape. It's actually
changing the rivers based on the activity of the beavers
as we were talking about tonight, those links around the description.
Check it out. It's a wild thing and imagine the
trophy cascade aspect of that with humans. Yeah, back to Derek,

(01:45:26):
thanks for being a patient brother. You're on troubled minds.
We were getting good here, we were getting fire as usual.
Where are we headed now? What you got for us?
Go right ahead. Thanks for staying over and thanks for
bringing fire ideas.

Speaker 5 (01:45:37):
Thank you, thank you. And I think you calls everybody
to think busy night, so it couldn't be in the
chat as much. But yeah, so I've said this analogy before,
given this metaphor before, Like we talked about Guya having
some type of awareness of sentience or whatever. What if
it has like a self preservation that all life has,
and that if, like you, something was trying to realize

(01:45:58):
it's about to die, try to stay alive. What if
there's a scenario where Guya realizes that there's an asteroid
coming down and it's going to blow it out of
the sky. It's not going to be like a dinosaur
afterary to where it comes down and defros just a
life on the planet. It's going to just it's big
enough that is gonna just blow Gaya into the smitherings.

Speaker 6 (01:46:17):
What would it do and how would it how would
it preserve itself? You can hear me anything right? Sorry?

Speaker 3 (01:46:23):
Clear?

Speaker 5 (01:46:23):
So I just was written down. I tepped it into
the AI. See if they can like save me some
time and give a clear right up that I can
just read. But it didn't don't want to just agree
what I said. What if there's a scenario with the
Earth are sent in and there's going to be destroyed
by an asteroid or something. It might need a defense
mechanism capable of blowing the asteroid out of the sky
or building a metal suit for the Earth. A trophy cascade,

(01:46:44):
with the beginning of being the dawn of humanity, with
the end being the preservation of the planet Earth. The
whole process is guided by the Earth itself as a
defense mechanism include the stone ape theory, the idea of
my seialttle network that acts like a mind nature spirits
impacting myth and story and technology, et cetera, et cetera, and.

Speaker 6 (01:46:59):
The thing game.

Speaker 5 (01:47:00):
It was just garbage and didn't give it in the
order that I asked it, and it wasn't wasn't right.
But just just think about that, Like, what if what
we're doing is not to the detriment of the Earth,
But what if over a large period of time, this
is what the Earth wants. It wants a metal fill,
It wants something that can Like how would the Earth
if it wanted to stay alive? How would it stay alive?
It does not have arms, It can't catch this thing.

(01:47:21):
It can't move itself.

Speaker 6 (01:47:22):
It can't.

Speaker 5 (01:47:23):
It needs to create a type of life that manipulates
reality that many manipulates the environment, that can create a
technology that can create something and so many of our jumps.

Speaker 6 (01:47:33):
We talk about this all the time. So when it
rush through it but all.

Speaker 5 (01:47:35):
So many of our jumps in technology the ideas come
from these psychedelic strips these like so obviously the boost
of humanity, intelligence and humanity in the first place could
be the stoneape theory and all that type of stuff,
and then the jumps could be from like the terms
of like following these cows around even from that. So
when we go from apes to humans to early humans,

(01:47:57):
and then we go from early humans to more civilized humans,
and then the tech visionaries and stuff having their own
psychedelic experiences and then creating the technology, and then like
eventually we get to a point where we have this
Like so you've seen the early Marvel movies, like the
first Event, like Age of Voltron.

Speaker 2 (01:48:16):
Whatever, Yeah, Hit and Miss, I've seen. Yeah, I'm familiar
with the the arc, but yeah, I haven't seen all
of them. I think I've seen Agi of Voltron. The
problem is just real quick as they blend all together
in my head. So I'm not sure which. Yeah, I've
seen most of them.

Speaker 6 (01:48:31):
Yeah, for sure, I'm Age of Boltron just because it
has the AI Ultron in it.

Speaker 5 (01:48:36):
But so it starts off he's like going to save
somebody and then he ends up in this facility whatever,
and he's looking at this new type of technology and stuff.
Then before he gets to that, so he has kind
of a ross welling and type of like technology grab.
But before he gets to that, the Scarlet Witch and
the introduction of the Scarlet Witch comes and gives him
this vision. It's like nightmare, and she's also shocked by

(01:48:57):
the nightmare. She's also also surprised that what the vision is,
so I don't think she chose what the vision was
going to look like. She just touched his head, gave
him a nightmare. And in a nightmare, the world is
being destroyed by an alien invasion and he feels he's part,
he's probably the blame. And then she takes his hand
off of him. Oh wow, she's shocked by it too.
She's also scared and her power derives from Cathon. This

(01:49:18):
chaos doctor is basically the Cthulhu of the of the
Marbel universe. And then later on in the movie, because
of this guilty he has about letting the eurok fet
is broad in the future or whatever or the sphere.
Seeing all his friends be be killed by this by
this alien invader, he decides to quote build a metal
shield for the planet, iron suit for the planet, like
a metal shield that's going to predict a planet from

(01:49:39):
from invaders, and then that leads him to create an
AI which is Ultron, and then Ultron goes evil, and
I have the idea that, well, what if that was Cathon,
that Cuthulu over the model universe using the magic that
gives Strolett Witch to instill a vision to this tech
person to create the vessel that goes evil automatically, to

(01:49:59):
give the vessel for Cathon to re into this reality
and recavoc into like the Ultron suit looks like like
a metal version of Cathon. All kind of this is
my little fun theory, but just within that so there's different.
There's a intentionality behind the building of the metal suit.
So we don't know that there's an asteroid coming that's
going to destroy the planet, but what if there is,

(01:50:20):
and what if our desire to create Yeah, I don't
know what If it does come, we might be able
to pull an armor ged and blow this thing up,
or we might be able to send a rocket up
there or move it, or who knows what. And if
we didn't do the things that we're doing right now,
we would not have been able to do so, or
we would if we didn't. And from our perspective, we're
poisoning the planet, and I think we should be better

(01:50:41):
stewards of the planet and everything. But just for the idea,
what if part of that perfect cascade is it's not.
It's like the wolves didn't just happen to stumble into
this area and then like feel more deer and then
create more room for the beavers to create their dam,
to create the rivers and stuff.

Speaker 6 (01:50:58):
It's it went there because the sports told them to mean.

Speaker 2 (01:51:03):
Yeah, yeah, no, I love all of I love all
of this, And so trophic cascade becomes the Stone age,
it becomes the Bronze Age, it becomes the Iron age.
To create that technological defense against the universe itself, Like
how else would you sort of lead evolution other than
that Armageddon space of we're talking about Armageddon, the movie

(01:51:25):
where they go to the thing that's going to destroy
the planet and they blow it up because the oil
riggers and technology, and I mean, yeah, I mean it
makes a ton of sense. And in that space of that,
maybe we're we're supposed to be here, and maybe that
technological AI space is the the not the end. I

(01:51:46):
don't think there's ever an end of evolution because it
you know, eventually we become energy, right and then you're
able to maybe tap in and out of that and
just push the button. I'll be energy today and then
tomorrow will be the meat suit, you know, Like who
knows what that looks like in a millionaires or what.
But I do wonder if that aspect as you're describing
is exactly where we should be in the larger context
of if you can't, if you can't defend yourself from

(01:52:08):
some sort of asteroid like that that would doom us
for you know, the next one hundred thousand years, then
what are you doing at all? And so maybe this
is all by by the plan of the Gaia system herself.

Speaker 6 (01:52:19):
I love it, man, Yeah, yeah, I mean not even
for one hundred thousand years. It will blow the earth
to pieces.

Speaker 5 (01:52:25):
So the same way a deer is going to try
to run away from a from a lot from a
wolfage chasing it, you know, the earth if it has
some type of like seems seemingly life has a life
preservation like urge to it. So what if we're the
representation the manifestation of that urg you know, and we're
just in the process.

Speaker 6 (01:52:44):
So just what if like.

Speaker 5 (01:52:46):
Our muscles, like each fiber of our muscles are sentient
to a human when you're working out, you're tearing your
muscles and there repairing and they're getting bigger. So to
the human body, the guy a human body version of Gaya.
You're as a process and it's painful to the body.
But at the end you might look like Arnold whatever.

(01:53:07):
You know, You're you're carving yourself, you're fizzling yourself. But
from the perspective of those muscle fibers, it might be
it might be a little mini apocalypses.

Speaker 6 (01:53:14):
No, my friend, you've been torn.

Speaker 5 (01:53:16):
Oh no, no, no, like and the new ones that
pop up bigger are completely different muscles and stuff, and
it's a that's a cycle that he was talking about constantly,
you know, And that could be each like time of
the muscles are torn and repaired, that's the humanity rising
and falling and the ugus and that type of stuff,
and then the end result being a stronger body. The

(01:53:38):
end result could be a new type of consciousness on
the earth, or metal shields to protect itself or whatever
like this could just be the course of consciousness in general,
and guya could be less less the body and more
an egg that's to be fertilized, and the pant spurring
we talked about recently could be part of that process.
And we're we're still kind of in a womb and
the thing that emerges from the womb, but we're in

(01:53:58):
the fertilization process. So the growing of the flower and
then the flower that blooms might be this new form
of consciousness that this might be how it happens all
the time, or or more of a directed thing that
we're talking about, like a earth trying to preserve a
delta or whatever. But there's a I just like that,
what if there's an intentionality behind like what if the
what if the earth knew what it was doing with

(01:54:19):
the wolf? But if the Earth knew what was doing
for us? And the idea that we're separate from the Earth,
that we're not perfect, we're not part of the perfect system.

Speaker 6 (01:54:27):
I don't like to think that that what if we are?

Speaker 5 (01:54:29):
And it's just we're we're in the process, we're part
of We're in the process of the muscles, muscle tearing,
not realizing that afterwards we're going to be some like
there's all the Dawnas afterwards. But there's a book by
doctor Chris Ryan. He comes on on Duncan all the time,
Duncan and Rogan all the time back in the day.
And this is probably where I heard Tropic Kstid the
first time. But he talks about you can hear yea

(01:54:51):
perfect He talks about, uh, he wrote a book called
or he was in the process of writing a book
called Civilized to Death.

Speaker 6 (01:54:58):
Here's the guy who wrote Sex of Dawn who's talking.

Speaker 5 (01:54:59):
About out how humans didn't have monogamy, so monogamy might
be tough for us whatever. So during that when when
he was doing the podcast tour for that, he was
talking about the book he was writing called Civilized to Death,
where and gives the analogy where maybe creating the cities,
creating agriculture and kind of clumping up into these set
areas and not being nomads and stuff with part of

(01:55:20):
a process that kind of boned us from the beginning
and kind of put us like he talks about locus
or or like feral pigs and stuff, and how when
feral pigs are or when pigs are domesticated, they're pink
and soft and they're the pork that we eat. But
you can set you can release a pig into the
wild and not in multiple generations, but that it's pig itself.
After a little bit, we'll start to grow fur, like

(01:55:42):
change colors, grow tusks and stuff, and like become a beast,
be steel and that might be the origin of like
demonic cloven hoast and stuff. But it will become a
wild animal, a wild beast, like a feral, a feral pig,
and then you put it back in dovestigation or change again.
Or like locus where like a crasshoppers locus are the
same organism, but when there's equilibrium there grasshoppers, when there's

(01:56:05):
not enough food and there's too many grasshoppers, they transform
into locus and they become bigger and more monstrous, and
they start to cannibalize each other until the equilibrium is
met again and they transform back into into grassoperas. So
he like theorized that creating agriculture and creating cities and
getting into this enclosed space and all the theories that
like we're not overpopulated, we were spread out evenly, or

(01:56:27):
if we all had like if every human had a
one square mile track of land we could all fit within,
like Texas or Alaska, but we're like columped into these
weird cities and then the rest of the area around
it's kind of empty. That like the cities earned us
from the grasshopper human to the locus human and kind
of ent us on this like parasitical trajectory where we're
acting insane and doing things that like to the detriment

(01:56:50):
of humanity and to the planet and too everything seemingly
like might be from that when we turn into locus
and we never changed back type of thing. But then
to this paradigm that agriculture and almost every mythology the
idea is for agriculture. The knowledge of it was given
to them by the gods, by the aliens, by voices,
by whatever, by psychedelic psychedelic visions, which is from the mushrooms,

(01:57:13):
from the from something else, from the will of the wists,
from from these nature spherees or whatever, and what if
it knew what it's like? What if it so we
learned agriculture and it damned us potentially from a certain perspective,
like it caused a lot of these things under this
paradigm whatever, But maybe it's because the Earth needed to

(01:57:34):
set us on the trajectory, needed to start the trophic cascade,
to get us to get the wolves into the area,
to create the river. It needed to get us clumped up,
to turn into into this wild, tech making storytelling species
that barreloutic control and to the point where it creates
the metal shield that the this thing needs. And from
its perspective, it's there's no set of time, or it's

(01:57:55):
just taneous, or it's not that long. But for us,
it's like the entire course of community. You know, I'm worry.

Speaker 6 (01:58:01):
I gotta I gotta get back.

Speaker 2 (01:58:02):
But what do you mean that's all you got? The other? No, No,
what are you talking about?

Speaker 6 (01:58:08):
That?

Speaker 2 (01:58:08):
That is incredible? And I think as usual when we
talk about these, and I'll add some stuff to it,
and you're gonna dip out and listen to your call,
which is fire. But I got some additional to that.
I know you got to go, so I will add
it right now, listen to it after the thing. But yeah,
I think I think this is part of part of
that issue, part of our intuition we believe is our own,
but maybe it's not. Maybe this is sort of the

(01:58:29):
intuition of the space we live in kaya and we're
led to this particular space or this particular time or
this particular thing for all the reasons you're describing. And yeah,
I mean we cannot. It is unquantifiable as of yet
to measure the zeitgeist. It is unquantifiable as of yet
to measure the ideas of humans collectively. But I do

(01:58:51):
think you're onto something with that theory, because we're being
drawn and led by that primordial, ancient space, the mind
space that we don't even recognize. And well, here we are,
welcome to twenty twenty five.

Speaker 10 (01:59:04):
You're the best, brothers, like the trophy cascade as some
intentional roop goal for machine, for Guy itself, for the watchers,
or first for anything, you know, and just.

Speaker 5 (01:59:15):
Yeah, I want some one thing else when you're talking.
But yeah, it's stuff, especially how all these ideas are
given to us through through psychedelics and everything.

Speaker 6 (01:59:24):
But yeah, we thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:59:26):
Well, you're the best. Have a great night. I appreciate
you very much, you know what mean love them. That's
Dereth the night Stalker. Please go give him a follow again.
Like I said, this show is nothing without our friends.
Please please please, I say, I look I say, like
ten times a show, do do do us collectively some
justice and let's go. Let's go to troubleminds dot org
click on friends or troubleminds dot org foard slash friends

(01:59:48):
directly scroll down a little bit. It says follow a nightstalker.
It's a alphabetical it's under end right there. He's got
a YouTube channel. Please go follow it. It's free, completely free.
Go encourage our friends with amazing idea are very smart friends,
to continue to make more content with more ideas, because
I think I think he's onto something and I've got
I've got something to add to that as part of it.
But again, trouble mindstot or forward sized friends, scroll down

(02:00:11):
a little bit night stalker. It is st o c
k e er. He does call us overnight from the
best grocer as the best grocer in the known multiverse.
He calls us on his brakes from working overnight. Yeah,
in a grocery store. So I mean, look, this is
the beautiful part of this, as we've made so many
smart and amazing friends in so many different areas of
the country that have that are part of so many

(02:00:33):
different things. And look, how look how amazing this is yeah, yeah, right, yeah,
please follow the night Stalker or leave a nice comment
on his YouTube. I appreciate that very much. I'm going
to add to that now. A couple of times recently
we were talking about sort of those control mechanisms and
I was fumbling with it. I couldn't really put my
finger on what it was, at least conceptually. I keep

(02:00:57):
I kept using the term, you know, it's baked in.

Speaker 3 (02:01:00):
It is.

Speaker 2 (02:01:00):
We're part of a collective control mechanism that's larger than
any human concept that has ever been or ever, I
don't know about ever will be. I don't like to
put limits on anything, but in terms of conceptual thinking
on something that has never ever really been quantified scientifically
because it's impossible to because you'd have to kind of

(02:01:20):
you know, like dice up the genome and do really
horrific tests and you know, behavioral tests, and I mean,
maybe that's coming. Let's hope it's not. Maybe hopefully there's
a non invasive way to do that. But anyway, and
the reason I bring that up and say it that
way is this, so when I use the term baked in,
okay and talk about our intuition as being not our

(02:01:46):
own alien to us. Within us, there's something called a
human endogenous retrovirus h er v's they call them, okay,
human endogenous retrovirus, which are remnants of ancient retroviral infections
that integrated into the DNA of our ancestors and have

(02:02:07):
been passed down through generations as part of the human
genome baked in. And not only that, we've recognized in
modern times that some of these things actually are behavioral
and cause different people to act in different ways. But
like I said, the science of that of tracking down

(02:02:28):
what that means is that the granular level is very
horrific because you have to start doing really unscrupulous type testing,
like really really horrific stuff. Anyway, check this out. So
these viral sequences make up about eight percent and this

(02:02:49):
is from groc This is a from a few shows
ago that it was on the tip of my tongue.
I could not find what I was looking for when
I keep using that term baked in. This is what
I'm talking about. These viral sequences about eight percent of
our genetic material and are present in every person's DNA,
influencing various biological processes such as reproduction, immunity, and development. Okay.

(02:03:13):
And then beyond that, while direct causation in humans remains
challenging to prove due to ethical limits on experimentation, like
I was describing, these findings substantiate that H eervs likely
exert unmeasured behavioral effects through complex, multi factoral pathways, warranting
expanded research into their epigenetic and environmental interactions. And that's

(02:03:37):
what when I talk about the term baked in, that's
what I mean, something so primordial within us, that's in
every one of us, Like regardless of where we're born,
what we look like, it doesn't matter because it is
baked into cooked into our actual genome, into our actual DNA.
And think about that eight percent they say a percent

(02:04:00):
are these human endogenious retroviruses. Okay? And if you want
to talk about primordial nature spirits in that regard, which
I do because I'm a weird guy. But I love
being a weird guy because you untether your mind from
yourself to consider the things outside of yourself. And those
control mechanisms I'm always talking about are possibly this not

(02:04:23):
just as Derek was describing that Stone date theory and
the mycilial network, and maybe there's a consciousness here that
is non human but is very of Gaya herself. You
get it. It's a this is a complicated thing and
do we have Look, is there science to back this up?
Kind of but also kind of not yet. However, as

(02:04:46):
I've been describing, our intuition tells us a lot of
things about ourselves and a lot of things about the
world around us, and so that becomes I don't know,
Like I said that that was part of a show
that I wish I had during the show that we had.
When I did it, I found it after the fact
because I was like I basically it was a kind
of a pepper and Rock with questions and then verified

(02:05:07):
them independently, like is there some level of virus that
all humans have? And this is what came out, So
it's not necessarily like a modern virus. It is a
primordial virus that's eight percent of our genome. So when
you think in terms of primordial nature, spirits, or an

(02:05:28):
intuitive aspect that is ancient, that is deep, that is
of the forest, that is, of the trees, of the
rocks and the stones and the sky, that right there
is maybe where this all comes together. Or by the way,
remember all the disclaimers also maybe not. But I do
recognize that our intuition is important and we are grounded

(02:05:51):
in a lot of ways to it. But as Derek
was describing, and I added on there, I think this
is I think he was bought on by the way,
and his theories are magnificent, as you know, maybe this
is what we're always dealing with, and maybe sort of
the clash within ourselves is that modern mind versus that

(02:06:13):
primordial nature spirit that's eight percent of our genome. Eight percent.
That's that's kind of big. That's kind of big. So
I don't know, and that and that becomes the larger
question here is that how much of that intuitive aspect
do we know is ourselves? And how much is sort
of a cooked in version, baked in version of Gaya herself.

(02:06:39):
I don't know, but you get it right. It seems
it seems, it seems worthy of additional ideas discussion, maybe
even additional science that kind of goes on top of
that maybe as usual, right, you know me, I love
the maybe and maybe maybe plays here, but also don't
forget that every time you say maybe, there's also maybe
not or probably not or stuff that's ridiculous and that's

(02:07:01):
okay too. Remember my entire premise of being here is
that I'm wrong, which is liberating, by the way, because
you don't have to try and impress anybody, tap dancing
on the scientific method or trying to prove anything. Just
talk ideas like how have we lost this as this magical,
magnificent space of just sharing without trying to dunk on

(02:07:27):
somebody or something. I don't know anyway. So that's what's
on my mind tonight, all of that, all of that
where at we started tonight. If you're just joining us again,
reframe this really quickly. Return of wolves to Yellowstone has
led to a surge in aspen trees unseen for eighty years.
Seems like a wild thing to say, it's true from
lifescience dot com. There's an actual process happening in that

(02:07:53):
primordial space of nature and balance and harmony, and it
seems like we can't keep our hands off of it
enough to just let us do its thing. I know,
it's weird. And as Derek said too, or was it Herschel,
I can't remember, forgive me. Maybe we did just sort

(02:08:13):
of disperse back into the trees. Herschel said this, those
mayan we built pyramids, human sacrifice, all the things right,
all the horrific things that well, they did maligned the
minds quite a lot, but they are also were builders,
and eventually maybe they diffused back into nature itself and

(02:08:39):
maybe that's where we should be. I don't know the
uh what is it? The it's destroyed now the Georgia
guidestones would like a word. Oh my goodness, don't get
me started on that anyway, love to hear your thoughts
on this. We got one more segment coming up. Nobody
on the line. If you guys want to jump in here,
put your hand upon the discord. What do you think?
Do you think there is sort of a hypothesis of

(02:09:01):
a self regulating entity that's larger than all of us.
It's guiding us, as Derek described, and I tend to
agree with him. The Stone Age, the Bronze Age, the
Iron Age, the space age. Is this always where we've
been headed and always where we should have been? Also
some of my mind tonight's and where do the wolves sit?

(02:09:24):
And the hierarchy, hierarchy of all the things? Seven oh
two nine five seven one zero three seven Click the
discord link at Troubledminds dot Org. Love to hear your
thoughts on this. It gets weird, and I'm about to
get weird, but I'd love to hear you instead. Be
right back.

Speaker 12 (02:09:38):
More Troubled Minds coming up. Don't go anywhere, Welcome back

(02:10:05):
here to Troubled Minds.

Speaker 2 (02:10:07):
I'm your host, Michael Strange. We're streaming on YouTube, the
Rumble x, Twitch and Kick. We are broadcasting live on
the Troubled Minds Radio Network. That's KUAP Digital Broadcasting and
eighty eight point four FM Auckland, New Zealand. Tonight we're
talking spirits in the soil, teeth in the dream. I'm
calling this what if the return of wolves wasn't just
ecological recovery but a planetary ritual, an ancient defense mechanism

(02:10:30):
reactivated to purge spiritual infection, or as Derek was describing,
maybe this has been the Primrose path all along. Coud
the earth itself summon predators as antibodies, relike geomantic circuits,
and drive out unseen parasites through mythic pattern alone. And
as you know me, I love the actual aspect of
patterns of and I think it is one of our

(02:10:54):
biggest strengths is the pattern recognition expert as humans, okay,
And many of the patterns that we lock into may
not be our own as part of those control mechanisms
I'm always talking about. However, however, in terms of the
larger context, maybe those patterns are guided by a divine

(02:11:18):
hand in some capacity. And again, like I said, you
can as always, you can look at that any way
you want a primordial nature spirit as I like to
describe the hand of God himself itself herself, however you
want to define that whatever. Maybe just maybe all of
the things we think are ours as a human concept

(02:11:41):
are just borrowed, are just lifted from the timeline we're
following and supposed to be on. I don't know. And
this trophic that, the trophic cascade example of Yellowstone here
with the wolves just in thirty or forty years. It
makes you go, wow, the Earth adapts in incredible ways,

(02:12:07):
faster than even science can keep up with. So to me,
it's a fool's Errand to say, well we could just
do this in this and make some changes in this
much time, Well, how do you measure that in such
a complex system? Yeah? Right, You see the clouds, you
you know, block out the sun, save us from the warming. Right,

(02:12:31):
it's hot in Vegas. But I ain't dead yet. I'm
just saying, and I recognize sample sizes and all the things,
but you get my meaning. Here there's propaganda and there's science,
and then beyond that there is a human intuitive aspect
that brought us to where we are today. What do

(02:12:53):
you know about it? What do you know about the
spirits and the soil business? What do you know about
the wolves in Yellowstone and trophic cascade? Seven oh two
nine five seven one zero three seven? Click the discord
link at Troubledminds dot org. We'll put you on the show.
It's as simple as this. Let's go to DJ from
Kansas from YouTube. What's up? Welcome to the thing? How

(02:13:15):
you doing DJ?

Speaker 4 (02:13:16):
Right ahead, Hatty Hattie, I'm doing good.

Speaker 2 (02:13:18):
Are you a pretty good? No complaints out of me?
Just more wild ideas by dark of night? You know
how we roll? What's on your mind? All yours? Go ahead?

Speaker 4 (02:13:27):
Yeah, So it's more so Amusings. There's a lot more
that I don't know than what I do know about
this topic. But one thing that I do know is
that it's really like the guy. A hypothesis is kind
of bleak when you think about the whole question of
why are we here? You know, like, what is our purpose?

(02:13:47):
I think on a deeper level, in a practical.

Speaker 2 (02:13:49):
Level, I think it can be bleak, But I think
in the other aspect of it, as usual, both sides
play here. But okay, so explain to me bleak and
then I'll explain to you the opposite just a week.
And you know I'm not I'm not I'm not debating you.
I'm not arguing with you. I want to hear what
bleak means.

Speaker 4 (02:14:07):
Oh okay. I guess bleak would be determined on whether
or not the individual thinking about it is spiritual. I
think that, yes, the Earth birthed us, and I think
that we're symbiotic with the earth. But it's like, are
we really a parasite? Are we a parasite?

Speaker 16 (02:14:30):
You know?

Speaker 2 (02:14:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (02:14:32):
It seems counterinto how is our relationship defined with the
earth if we're using the guy a hypothesis. I guess
is what I'm trying to think of.

Speaker 2 (02:14:40):
I see as as part of the larger system that
may not care about us and may use us for
one thing from one one epoch to the next. I
get it. I get it that at the same bleak,
maybe a million years from now there are no humans
and maybe that was always the plan, Okay, I follow
you know.

Speaker 6 (02:15:00):
Well.

Speaker 4 (02:15:00):
And then also thinking about what it means to be grounded,
I think if you're thinking of the earth as being
something that's alive and sentient, I think that would have
a different meaning. Also, I think it makes all those
crystal love and hippies seem a lot less crazy.

Speaker 2 (02:15:15):
Yeah, when I was young, I thought they were crazy.
The older I get, the more I recognize they knew
a ton of stuff I don't. And again that's just generalizing,
of course, But yeah, I'm with you. I agree on that,
is that grounding yourself is definitely something necessary, but it
means a little bit something different to everybody else now,

(02:15:37):
just a counter of the bleak. Maybe this is exactly
where we ever where we should have been, and let's
let's call it sort of the spiritual versus the secular
aspect of this. And maybe we were supposed to be
spiritual to become secular to create the scientific aspect, and
as Derek described, maybe the armor of the earth to
save us from the universe, to save us from the void,

(02:15:59):
to then again become spiritual in the end, I don't know,
so I can see both sides of it, but they're
all just a counter bleak. I think maybe, and some studies,
some recent studies, actually support this that young people are
more religious than they were twenty years ago or thirty
years ago or fifty years ago. So I don't know.
Maybe these cycles, like I said, maybe they aren't ours

(02:16:21):
at all.

Speaker 4 (02:16:24):
Has Are you familiar with the Frank Herbert book The
Green Brain?

Speaker 2 (02:16:29):
Absolutely not. I know who Frank Herbert is, but I've
never really.

Speaker 4 (02:16:32):
I recommend it to any sci fi fan out there.
But basically cliff notes and I don't want to spoil it,
is there is a battle between the planet and the
humans on the planet, and an organism arises in defiance
of the humans impact. So that's kind of interesting to
think of as well, like are we helping the planet?
Are we hurting the planet?

Speaker 2 (02:16:56):
Yeah? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (02:16:56):
What is helpful and hurtful to gaia hypothetic? But that's
really all. I have, just more questions than answers.

Speaker 2 (02:17:03):
Which is okay. And so regarding Frank Herbert, that's of
course the author of Doone. That's where I know the
guy from that book right there. I do wonder if
there is a defense mechanism against you know, the parasitic infection,
and I don't like to think of humans as parasitic,
like you said, And I think this is probably the
most poignant part of this for me tonight is bringing
those ideas together. Shout out. Jay of Project Unity says

(02:17:26):
Project Unity is kind of merging science and spirit together
as part of what he does, and it's very similar
to what we do too. And I think, I think,
I think those cycles may happen for reasons that we
cannot determine yet, but I think eventually those those ideas
merge and there is a scientific merging of such and

(02:17:48):
I'm hopeful for it. And that's what brings me back
every night to talk to amazing people like you, and
I appreciate it very much, unless you have anything else.
And for first time callerbad, I know you've been on
a on discord or not, you've been on YouTube for
a long time listening, but first call or am I
dreaming here?

Speaker 4 (02:18:05):
First call on discord?

Speaker 2 (02:18:07):
I'm evolving right on, right on, And you sound fantastic
on discord crystal clear, so yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:18:13):
It sure beats the telephone line.

Speaker 2 (02:18:15):
Yeah, absolutely, I appreciate the call unless you have anything else.

Speaker 4 (02:18:20):
Nope, you all have a great night by They were the.

Speaker 2 (02:18:22):
Best, Thank you very much. That's a DJ from YouTube
DJ in Kansas. Yeah, well said all that. I think
it's complicated, per usual, Right, that's my look, it's my
go to you know why, because I think life is
life itself from a human singular human perspective is complicated.
I don't think anybody will refute that, except for the
sociopaths and the psychopaths. They're like, oh it's easy, you

(02:18:44):
just you know, take what you want when you want it,
and rah rah, go get them raw. However, however, there's
a larger context to it, which goes into the conversation
we had the end of that last show or middle
of the show with Joe Know, sort of the the
atheist version of why do you lie? Yeah, no celestial reward.

(02:19:08):
As I've said, I don't know, it's it's obviously stuck
in my mind, but it's all this is weird. All
this is weird to me only because being human is
not so direct. It's not so one of those things
that's as easy as it seems. And like I said,
I'm pretty sure of the choir there I know otherwise,
you know, hence the name troubled minds. However, when you

(02:19:31):
look at look at all that stuff, I wonder if
it's supposed to be that way. And interestingly, back to
the matrix, the first matrix, if you remember that when
we started tonight and sort of merging the idea of
intuition with the digital again. So this is from applying
to the Liberator on X and he's the guy. He's

(02:19:51):
the guy who's jail breaking all the stuff, by the way,
and jail breaking all all of the new models they release.
He jail breaks them in like an hour every single time,
every single time. And what he's done actually as part
of it is he's sort of seeding the information out
there that these models are learning from with he's pre
jail breaking them to the point where when he types

(02:20:14):
of command, it knows that he told it this because
he put it on the Internet, which it learns from.
And he's able to other people are able to use
his sort of commands and break stuff too. And it says,
you know, Pliny the Liberators as he calls himself. Anyway,
that's an aside. It doesn't it really doesn't matter in
this context. But this is what he said to me.
This is the most beautiful quote from the First Matrix.

(02:20:36):
Agent Smith said this, Did you know that the first
Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world where
none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster.
No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost,
and again, crops being people. Some believed we lack the

(02:20:56):
programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe
that as a species, human beings define their reality through
misery and suffering. And I've known some people who are
like that. Anybody knows some people who are like that
that are never happy unless they're miserable. I wonder, I
do wonder, I do wonder. I try not to hang

(02:21:19):
around with people like that because they want you to
be miserable with them. Misery loves company, as they say.
And interestingly, as part of that, the larger context of
this conversation is that we are again locked into these
patterns sometimes and for me personally, like I said, twenty
year old me is very different than fifty year old me.
I've learned a lot, I've grown a lot, I've learned

(02:21:41):
a lot about myself. I've learned a lot about the world,
and so we're always changing as we should be. However, however,
I wonder if there is an actual space that we
can sort of change outside of the paradigm of control.
Maybe not, maybe not in entirely, but I think it

(02:22:02):
does go back to what Derek was saying, what Herschel
was saying, what all you guys were saying tonight as
part of this conversation, is that we are part of
this system. As DJ was saying too, we are part
of this system. And I don't think personally we're parasitic.
I think that we are being led down a path
and there are parasites among us. I don't mean to

(02:22:23):
dehumanize anybody, but you know who they are. They're closureizing
thing for five seconds about who those people might be.
I'm sure you know some just the scum of the earth.
As they say, there are murderers, there are you know,
all the stuff. Okay, I'm not trying to be political
or anything here. I'm just saying there are legitimately objectively parasites,

(02:22:48):
human parasites. But I think collectively, no, Look like I said,
all y'all are aware. I'm not even from Texas, but
all y'all are maybe in Texas. I'm not. I'm in
I'm in Las Vegas, and you're listening to me. Wherever
you're listening, you're participating in the chat and calling in
from wherever anywhere in the world. Basically, which has escalated

(02:23:11):
because now Elon Musk has made just about starlink worldwide.
I don't know this. This is a weird thing. All
of this is like incredible, the acceleration aspect of it,
and there is so much magic happening in the current moment. However, however,
I think, as usual, our biggest challenge is that human hubris,

(02:23:34):
is that actual space of our ego thinking we know
too much about how to fix everything. It's a problem,
it's a challenge. It is a human challenge, and it
is it is a challenge for me and I look,
I'm not casting, you know, aspersions on anybody and saying
you know, it's your challenge people, No, it's my challenge too.

(02:23:56):
It's collective and that becomes well, the larger paradigm of
the guy a hypothesis. I think we are part of
this beautiful, wonderful evolving system. I think it may not
care to be honest, I think being a let's say,
not bleak, but being indifferent seems scary, like it may

(02:24:19):
shrug us off like a bad case of fleece. Has
been has been said by Clyde Lewis and of course
famously by George Carlin, that you know, climate change is like, hey,
by the way, the Earth is going to do whatever
it does, and the big move it makes is going
to be like, all right, humans, get off that we're
done with you. Let's do something else. Let's go back

(02:24:41):
to the wolves and Yellowstone or whatever. Here's here's another
interesting thing regarding the wolves in Yellowstone. Not about ten
minutes left. If anybody wants to jump in here, love
to hear your thoughts. Seven two nine, one zero three
seven click the discord link of troublemindes dot org. But
Yellowstone in particular was a is a geothermal hotspot. They
say that it's the supervolcano exists in North America below Yellowstone,

(02:25:05):
and so very lay line esque, very a power spot
of earth energy also exists beneath the ground of this
sort of magical park, this magical space. So I do
wonder if let's say, and let's go weird and metaphisical
for a moment where we have sort of a conjunction
of earth energy in Yellowstone Park, that if maybe the

(02:25:30):
things we're seeing are supercharged in some way, you know
what I mean. Like, let's say we released this pack
of wolves or three packs of wolves in northern Oregon
or something. No offense to Oregon. Spend some time there,
love my people in Oregon. But you know what I mean,
It's not a geothermal hotspot. There's no supervolcano below it.
There's no earth energy bubbling to that level of Yellowstone.

(02:25:52):
And I think you could probably make that argument about
anywhere in the country, anywhere in North America, possibly anywhere
in the world. So I do want wonder if there's
like a larger scope, an energetic scope of maybe we
see these ecosystems changing more quickly because of something like that,
you know what I mean. And again, it's a little metaphysical,

(02:26:13):
it's a little primordial nature spirit, it's a little more
out there in wu. But I do wonder if, because
when we're talking about ecological and geological time spaces, this
in particular happened in thirty years nineteen ninety five or whatever.
They drop the wolves out there and released them, and
so suddenly we see all these changes happening incredibly quickly,

(02:26:37):
and we don't even know, like I said, what happens
in two hundred years. But I wonder there's sort of
going to be these subspaces of Earth energy where the
changes will happen, but maybe less dramatically and more over
the longer geological scale of time. I don't know. That's
just some ideas that come to mind as I'm thinking

(02:26:58):
about this. And that's the best part of this, by
the way, is that I, you know, I forced myself
to think when I talk to you guys, because I
don't want to show up and sound like a moron,
and so I literally forced myself to think about ideas
I never would have considered ever. And there's there's your magic, right,
there's there's your magic. Yeah, what else do I got?

(02:27:18):
Just a couple couple quick things. I think there's some
some interesting points to make, uh, which is what I
was describing geomantic grids. So okay, So the geothermal and
geomantic lattice, which is very lay line esque and shout
out Derek the Nightstalker, shout out rivers and the mystical
source waters of creating lay lines Okay, of the underground

(02:27:42):
rivers sort of intersecting, and there's these you know, ancient
power spots, but in this case, like I was describing,
this is like a geothermal hot spot literally. So how
about the energy grid in that space? And is it
possible that we see as I described, more of this

(02:28:03):
happening in a larger, faster scale. And could you in
a lab recreate this somehow back to dark sorcery and
magic in the lab. But the wolves by restoring the
flow of their predator energy, so they may have sort
of possibly tapped into and are contributing to relighting sort

(02:28:25):
of a broken circuit of what Yellowstone used to be.
They say that it's a super volcano. It's going to
be the end of North America. Right, it's overdue six
hundred thousand years or something. Right, Hey, don't worry. I'm
not tripping. You shouldn't be tripping either. You can't worry
about things you can't control, especially geologic time and geologic

(02:28:47):
spaces and catastrophes that are above our pay scale for worry.
But you get what I mean. It seems like I
need to go to Yello Stone Park, is what it
seems like. I've never been there. Anybody been there? Hands up? Yeah,
you get it. Okay. So, and the question really becomes

(02:29:09):
as sort of a supercharging aspect of yellowstone and the
geothermal space and the lattice beneath it of what that means,
lava flow and the rest. So can landscapes like this
hold some sort of memory supercharges somehow as I'm describing,
And do predators act as sort of catalysts or nodes

(02:29:32):
in that space? Yeah, it's all in the right up.
If you guys are interested in sort of the weirder
esoteric stuff, there's definitely a bunch of bizarre things like
I just described in the right up there. But I
think that eventually, at least at the end of this
that we have a I don't know, we have an

(02:29:52):
interesting concept here that's developing. And it only took thirty
years to happen. And it only took you know, thirty
wolves or whatever, thirty five wolves who have now become
sort of a a pack of one hundred or something
three packs of about one hundred that have kind of
stabilized within the community, within the environment. Well, let's see

(02:30:14):
what happens again as we described earlier, and from that
first article. It seems like the bisoner about to return
to so as usual, right, like, oh, let's think about
this with the dire wolf and the wooly mammoth and
stop it, stop it, please stop this stuff at least
if you're gonna do it, don't release them back into
the wild. Please. I don't know, like there's there's there's

(02:30:36):
so many ethical problems with this. But again, you know,
can you can you fox or something xx or for
the sensors out there and then on the fox ore it.
I'm not sure, especially in the human timescale. You know,
we only live, you know, seventy years, eighty years if

(02:30:56):
you're lucky. I don't know, but yeah, that's me I Mike.
This is troubled minds, wild ideas by dark of night
is really what this comes down to. And I don't
really know what's up. Bobby Yaga, I see you, tree Land.
How you doing good evening? If I miss you, guys,
I'm sorry about that so much, Jake, I see, just
do my best to keep up and do all the

(02:31:18):
things and keep a coherent thought where while all the
other things are also in place. So again, forgive me
for my imperfections and all the rest of it. But yeah,
that's it. I give it. I give all of this
a big fat maybe like I always do, like I
always do. Also, maybe not, don't forget with maybe. With
a healthy dose of maybe comes a healthy dose of
maybe not. So that's okay, that's okay. What else do

(02:31:41):
I got? Guy? A hypothesis? There's some good links down
below if you want to check it out again. The
timeline of the Yellowstone Wolf reintroduction Again shout out Darrell
d four pest campaign, which is a perfect example of
what happens when you meddle too hard with an ecosystem.
There are unintended consequences, and the wolves of Yellowstone and
make a perfect example of this, extincting them, hunting them

(02:32:04):
to extinction, and then reintroducing them. We see the difference,
and it's as yet immeasurable. We can only measure just
a few right now. Imagine the rest of the things
that happen within that singular ecosystem that are very different. Now, yeah,
what else? See if there's anything else? Real quick, yep,

(02:32:26):
do read this stuff and again the entire let me
read this. This is the probably one of the best
parts of it. So reintroducing wolves change an entire river.
Here's how it happened. But bah okay, oh blah blah blah.
Let me, there we go the trophic cascade. There you go,
domino Nature's domino effect. Return of the wolves spark what
scientists called that trophic cascade, a ripple effect that flows

(02:32:48):
through every level of the food chain. Wolves spread on elk,
keeping their numbers in check. Suddenly elk couldn't linger long
in open meadows or along river banks. It became more alert,
constantly moving to avoid wolf packs. This change would behavior
known as the ecology of fear, meant that plants previously
eaten down to stubs finally had a chance to regrow.
One small shift at the top of the food web

(02:33:09):
sent shockwaves through every layer below. Yeah, what are people
doing right? So here you go. One of the most
surprising beneficiaries of the wolves return was the beaver. These
industrious rodents rely on willows and aspens for both food
and building material. As vegetation rebounded, so did beaver populations.
Beavers built new dams and ponds, slowing water flow and

(02:33:29):
creating wetlands. Their activities provided homes for fish, amphibians, and insects,
making the riversides pulse with life. In a sense, the
wolves return gave the beavers their comeback story, turning them
once again into the key architect of the Yellowstone landscape,
which of course turns into the deeper, the deeper eddies,
all the things, all the stuff that we're talking about,

(02:33:50):
that they are now the natural filters of these rivers,
of shoutout, rivers of keeping everything clean and pure and natural,
and here you go. River was reborn. How it changed,
how they changed water so perhaps the most astonishing change
was in the rivers themselves. As vegetation anchored the banks,
soil erosion slowed dramatically. Willow and cottonwood roots held soil

(02:34:12):
in place, narrowing the deepening and deepening the streams. The
water flowed more steadily, with less sentiment sediment clouding its path.
Beaver's dams created pools and wetlands, further stabilizing water flow.
This shift wasn't just cosmetic. The very shape and behavior
of the river transformed, illustrating how predators can literally reshape

(02:34:34):
the earth. But eath our feet, yeah, right right now.
Scale it yep, scale that mm hmm. It's a it's
a wild thing. What does it mean, I think personally
it means we should uh check our egos quite a

(02:34:56):
lot more if possible. I think it means the human
hubris effect of science and overreaching and trying to change things, geological,
time scale things in a moment. It's bad. Okay, it's bad,
and that's it. You guys are the best. Thanks for

(02:35:17):
hanging out with us and be part of the conversation.
Thanks for all the great calls tonight. Thanks for sticking
with me as I ramble through all manner of nonsense.
And yeah, that's it. That's it. If you want to
help Trouble Minds, you know what to do. Help our friends,
Troubleminds dot org Ford Slige friends. Like I said, if
you haven't done it at this point, you're hurting my feelings.
Please do it. If you should be on this list,

(02:35:39):
you're right, you shouldn't. All you have to do is
help the show one iota, send me an email or
hit me on Discord and say here's what I'm doing,
here's the social media or the project I'm working on.
You're invited this. This is a an in club. This
is not an out club. I get it. Some people
are mad or whatever because I didn't go find them

(02:36:02):
first or whatever. No offense. I'm a busy guy. I
just am. That's the way it is. And speaking a
busy guy. If any if I drop anything, they would
be this. This is the frivolous project of my own,

(02:36:22):
my precious you get it. So it doesn't have to
be like that. But also priority is rain and I'm
not threatening or suggesting anything. I'm just telling you please
help our friends as part of this is this is
not about me. This is about us together thinking, dreaming

(02:36:44):
and wondering what might be trouble minds or of course
I friends. If you want to help us directly, help
us spread the word, let people know what conversation is happening.
Or we're not gonna tell you to vote for We're
not gonna, you know, talk about the latest political space.
We're not We're not gonna chase down everybody else's narratives.

(02:37:06):
Yeah no, No, it's okay to think for ourselves. It's
okay to wonder and dream without guardrails. That's it, that's it.
If you want to help us directly, there's hats, there's merch,
all the stuff at troubledfans dot com. You will not
find Michael Stranger in the hot tub. You will find

(02:37:27):
that the hottest Troubled Minds merch around as the commercial goes,
check it out. The album's there for the AI music.
If you're into that, you could buy an actual digital
version anywhere in the world or in the lower forty
eight States you can buy the actual CD. You'll went
around here somewhere. It's super cool I actually released the CD.
Can you believe it? It's mostly AI music and all that,
but still there's one track on there that is me

(02:37:48):
and my friend erin anyway, as we finish, if you
guys know the drill, let's see this one's for dj
DJ from Kansas. Thanks for listening for so long on
the YouTube there, Thanks for finding disco, and thanks for
evolving along with us. Fantastic call, be sure, be strong,
be true. Thank you for listening. From our Trouble Minds

(02:38:10):
to yours. Have a great night.

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Spirits in the Soil - Teeth in the Dream

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Spirits in the Soil - Teeth in the Dream