The Cross-Realm Code of Conduct - Exit Velocity and Form Integrity - Troubled Minds Radio

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I did.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Visual intelligence.

Speaker 3 (00:04):
He ends up that you and race.

Speaker 4 (00:07):
It's a flying object.

Speaker 3 (00:08):
If we don't know what it is, I would hope
somebody is checking it out.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
I don't know whether luck or whatever, but were to
be five, you know, uncle to deactib okay, I'm glad the.

Speaker 4 (00:21):
Pentagon vict is an opposing threat. I want them on
till the craft generates its own gravitational field, and you
could it might be a gut.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
The Internet has become the moment. Send them the criminals
and terrors. Let that happen. You know, that's that's what
we're expected to see.

Speaker 5 (00:47):
Rosser Area fifty one, Avian kept deep under the ground.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
In the media.

Speaker 6 (01:10):
That's GONAP doesn't interest.

Speaker 4 (01:15):
The self.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Certain you're here for the reason.

Speaker 6 (01:30):
You're listening into Trump of Mines Radio, broadcasting live from
the Sleeper Bunker, just off the Extraterrestrial Highway, somewhere in

(01:52):
the desert sands outside of Las Vegas.

Speaker 4 (02:00):
From somewhere in space time loosely.

Speaker 7 (02:04):
Labeled Generation X on planning Earth and asking questions of
you in earnest.

Speaker 4 (02:19):
Into the digitals. Welcome evening, and welcome to Troubled Minds Radio.
I'm your host, Michael strange. We're streaming on YouTube, rumbo x,

(02:41):
Twitch and kick. We are broadcasting live on the Troubled
Minds Radio Network. That's KUAP Digital Broadcasting, and of course
eighty eight point four FM Auckland, New Zealand. Tonight got
another doozy for you. Look, as you know me, I'm
a weird guy of many interest and in this particular case,

(03:02):
there's always this theme that's stuck in my head. And
we talk about folklore and mythology and all manner of things.
Of course, artificial intelligence and the paranormal, and you know
the aspect of aliens and the cosmos and all the rest. Right,
there's so many things that are fascinating as hell in
the modern day, okay, And I do recognize some of
that's been compromised. There are ops in play, people you know,

(03:25):
tell tall tales, all kinds of things. Right, There's all
this sort of mix of interesting things afoot in terms
of these ideas. But to me, when you look at
mythology and folklore and go all the way back, it
seems like there's way too many parallel themes to suggest
that something here is well, not more than we give
it credit for. You know what, I mean meaning that

(03:47):
it's like this that if so many things go back
to what I like to term deep magic from the
dawn of time shout out C. S. Lewis from the
line of the Witch and the Wardrobe, of course, one
of those amazing chapters he wrote as part of that.
And then of course there's that deeper layer that I
always talk about in that same sense, deeper magic from
before the dawn of time now in that particular aspect,

(04:09):
and what we're going to talk about tonight is that
concept yet again, except of course in a different way,
because if you look at a lot of different mythology
and folklore throughout the years, it seems to have parallels.
It seems to have interesting ideas that not only echo
each other across time and space, different places on Earth,

(04:29):
of course, different cultures, but different times in history. We're
talking a thousand years ago, we're talking five thousand years ago,
we're talking all the way back to the original civilization
of or you are fifteen thousand years ago, something to
that regard. And when you look at all of these
the folklores, the mythologies, the pantheons, even these rules, maybe

(04:51):
these rules of that deep magic from the dawn to time,
there's some striking things that come to mind. And I
found this pretty cool little article. I'm trying to do
something a little more, you know, folklories tonight, to kind
of get us away from, you know, the big news
of the day. I won't even tell you what that is.
If you don't know what that is, then well, you know,
well we'll get that then to another get to that
another time. But I found a cool little article, and

(05:14):
this is from Legendsofamerica dot com. And wouldn't you know,
it's kind of touches on a lot of things, and
specifically it's the headline, is this the Hidden city of
Death Valley? Okay, don't worry. We'll get to the mythology
and the folklore in a second here. And I was
cruising through this and it's got all the stuff you'd expect,

(05:35):
right underground caverns, it's got mummies, it's got giants. This
link is in the description if you want to read
up and check this out. Trace of Giants found in
the Desert nineteen forty seven, Howard E. Hill of Los Angeles.
You know, we've seen some of these pictures before they
say they've been faked. And all the rest of this,
and look whatever, I'm not even talking about that tonight.
It is cool because it's part of this. But this
article has, you know, several different aspects of the underworld,

(05:59):
and these maybe in caverns, and in this case it's
southern Nevada. It's the Death Valley's right over here, like
it's about an hour hour and a half drive from
where I'm at, that spot that hits one hundred and
thirty five degrees or whatever the hell it is. But anyway,
I found this as part of this article, and it's
called the Kingdom of the shin ah av probably saying

(06:21):
that poorly. It's an old Piute legend. Piutes, of course,
are native to southern Nevada and Arizona, and yes, it's
the native tradition here. Check this out though for centuries,
legends of an underground city and our ancient race in
Death Valley have told. In the Piute legend of the
Kingdom of shin aw av au Av, this place, meaning

(06:46):
God's land or ghost land, is sacred to the Piute.
According to the legend, thousands of years ago, an important
Piute chief lost his wife. Devastated, the leader was so
Overcome with grief and sorrow, he began to think that
life without her was not worth living. He soon decided
to take his earthly body into the land of the dead,

(07:06):
following the trail of brave Indian spirits through endless underground passages.
The journey was long and difficult. As he traveled, he
was besieged by evil spirits, fierce beasts, and supernatural demons. Finally,
though on his brave journey, was rewarded by glorious sunlight
at the end of the trail. But he had yet

(07:26):
one more ordeal, crossing an extremely narrow rock bridge that
arched over a bottomless canyon. But he could see the
beautiful green meadows of the spirit land across the way,
and determinedly made his way safely across, and so in
this case, entering the Greek kingdom ruled by shin Aov.
He was welcomed by a beautiful maiden who was the

(07:46):
daughter of shin aw A of of course the land itself.
The princess took the hand of the brave chieftain and
led him to a large natural natural amphitheater. There the
chief looked upon thousands of dead and happy piute dancing
in a huge so instead of other sort of underworld
gloom and doom, this seemed to be a massive party.
Everybody was happy to be there, though he was no

(08:08):
doubt pleased to see the dead were happy. He bemoaned, quote,
I will never find my wife in the crowd end quote.
The princess promised him that he would he would, and
instructed him to sit at the edge of the circle,
watching until his wife would pass. She then left him, momentarily,
returning with food and drink to make him comfortable. Okay,
this is where the plot dickens. When she returned, she
left him with one more directive, quote, when you see

(08:30):
your beloved wife, carry her off quickly without either of
you making a backward glance, then travel back the way
you came. Okay, the backward glance. The chief agreed and
sat patiently waiting to see his wife dance by. After
several days, he saw several people he had known in
the past, including friends and enemies, but had not yet

(08:51):
seen his beloved wife. Just as he was beginning to despair,
he saw her approaching late on the third night. He
ran to her with his arms spread wide, grabbed her,
and the two then fled the valley hand in hand,
moving towards the ribbon bridge that crossed the great chasm.
But for all his bravery and determination, the chief risked
a quick look back at the beautiful valley, and that

(09:12):
brief moment he was suddenly standing alone. In the end,
he made his way back to his people, where he
spent the rest of his life telling the story of
the wonders of the beauty of the Kingdom of shin Awov.
And thus the legend was born, passed down from one
generation to the next for years to come. A great
article again it talks about giants and some other stuff,

(09:32):
but that's the one that caught my attention specifically for
the reason and the idea of that folkloric aspect of
don't look back comes into what.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
Is it?

Speaker 4 (09:46):
I had a huge list here. Lot's wife is one
the epillar of salt. There's uricity. I can't remember anyway.
I'll tell you about that one week when we get
back out. Let me check my notes. But the question
here tonight is back to C. S. Lewis deep magic
from the dawna time? How come we have so many
of these tales that are folklore, that are mythology from

(10:06):
all over the world that seem to echo these exact
style of rules. Think the Fay Realm, Think Alice in Wonderland,
eat me, drink me, Think the food and beverage of
this other place that you're not supposed to touch, apparently,
and you're not supposed to look back on your way
out of the underworld. So I'm calling this tonight the
cross Realm code of conduct, exit, velocity, and form integrity.

(10:30):
We'll talk about what that stuff means when we get back.
But the question for you guys tonight is how come
it seems there is this idea from all over old
and new, all over the world, of this exact, single
folkloric idea. It's almost as if this is embedded deeply,

(10:51):
so deeply within our universal psyche that maybe in some
degree this is true. What do you know about it? Love,
We're taking your cast tonight. If you want to be
part of the conversation seven oh two nine, one zero
three seven, click the discord like a trouble minds that rug.
But in the meantime we're gonna be right back and
get a word from our sponsor, in this case, that
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(11:12):
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(12:19):
haunting beauty of Alien Skin by Tremble and Support Human Inspiration,
available now on iTunes. Welcome back to Troubled Minds on
Michael Strange. Let us continue show we okay, do check
this out so the cross Realm code of conduct. Do
you think there is one? And how come they echo
so closely across time and space here on Earth, of course?

(12:44):
Well let me read this to you now. I was
doing some brainstorming and kind of wondering why this kind
of was, and you know, looking into just real cool
trouble minds level stuff. But check this out. I'll tell
you what this is later, but I'm gonna read this
to you right now. It's the top blurb, right on
the right up. I suggest you do. You read the
right of tonight. It's very good, as they usually are.

Speaker 8 (13:03):
But check this out.

Speaker 4 (13:05):
They say there is a road beneath all roads, a
path that runs under the roots of the mountains, in
the veins of the sea. It is not for the living,
but sometimes the living find it in grief, in trance,
in dream, or when the world above tears open. If

(13:26):
you walk it, the air will feel wrong, as if
the wind moves in both directions at once. You will
meet faces you knew and faces you never wished to know.
Some will call your name, Some will try to give
you gifts. Some will offer food that smells like the
memory of your happiest day. Do not take it. If

(13:52):
you eat, you will belong to this place, and it
will keep you. Your blood will carry its rivers, your bones,
its stone. You will forget the sky above. Do not
look back. The way is made of your will alone.
If you turn to see the place you came from,
the bridge will vanish behind you, and you will stand

(14:13):
here forever, neither here nor there. Walk forward when you
see the gate, do not stop. Do not speak until
the sun is warm on your face. Do not answer
voices calling from behind, no matter how dear they sound.
If you do these things, you may return, But you

(14:37):
will not return unchanged. The dust of that place will
cling to you, and in dreams you will still hear
the music of its halls. Someday, when the road beneath
roads find you again, it will know you, and you
will know it. And then this gets into the the
piute story that we just tackled there. But and so

(14:58):
this is kind of looking at looking at maybe the
very first version of this of where this idea possibly
came from, and the brief version you would tell somebody
just before they set off on something like a shamanic journey, okay,
or something similar. So I don't know, that's I thought
that was really striking and really well put. And that's

(15:21):
exactly the point of this. Why do we have all
of these connections across time and across space here on Earth,
different cultures and everything else to talk about these same ideas.
Don't look back, do not eat anything of the other realm.
There are tricksters that might offer you gifts, and the

(15:44):
path is your will alone. And if that doesn't harken
back to deep magic from the dawna time, I don't
know what does anyway? What do you think about that?
How come there's such a striking similarity in so many
different stories. I've got a big list of these stories
that I'll read you in a second. Here we'll kind
of give you the person Tephany and you're ready. See,
there's so there's so many different ones. This the piute legend,

(16:05):
and well, what do you know about it? As usual?
This is a conversation amongst friends and just a dreamers
and thinkers, And why do you think this is? What
is it with the don't eat or drink anything from
the other realm and don't look back once you are
on your way out, love to hear what you think?
Seven oh two nine five seven one zero three seven.
Click the discord link at Troubleminds dot org will put

(16:26):
you on the show just like this. James Salcedo, what's
going on, brothers? Thanks for being a patient. You're on
Troubled Minds. How are you, sir? And go right ahead. Nope,
we've got static, We've got static. I don't know what
the hell is going on. James has an issue there
with yeah, yeah, whatever you did do the other thing,

(16:50):
whatever that is, maybe plug into the laptop or something.
His headset is dying, basically, and so we narrowed it down.
We did some troubleshooting and figured out some of the things,
but it looks like we haven't figured out exactly all
the things. Or maybe he tried to. He said, never mind,
it must be my entire PC. Try the try plug
it into the the Uh. I don't think it's a PC.
I think it's probably the the jack you're plugging the

(17:11):
headphone into the headset into. Uh, try the uh plug
it into the laptop anyway, Sorry about that. I know
that it is immensely frustrating when you think that we
get we get things fixed and then they're not fixed.
So uh anyway, Okay, So so as I was going
through this, let me find the list here of all
these different different old legends that really kind of fit
into this this idea, And do you think there is

(17:33):
really the question tonight becomes this this idea, the cross
realm code of conduct. Do you think there is something
like this that would actually allow us to not just
descend into other realms, but also rules that need to
be followed for us to return, And that, like I said,
seems very very specific, kind of very proto magic, kind

(17:57):
of very well almost as if this type of thing
is deep magic from the dawn of time. Here we go. Okay,
so there's Persephone and the pomegranate abducted by Hades. Persephone
has offered food in the underworld. She eats six pomegranate seeds,
binding her to return for six months of every year,

(18:18):
which this one we know, well, it isn't mere nourishment.
The seeds are an anchor ensuring she cycles between the worlds. Okay, there,
and that was the one thing so they tried to
get if you remember that tale, they tried to appeal
to Zeus Jupiter depending on Greek or Roman, and they
were not able to free Persephone because she had eaten

(18:39):
of the realm. And so then even that the ancient
gods here are bound to these rules and had to
sort of succumb to this ancient magic from the dawn
of time. You get what I mean, this proto magic.
And so what they did in that particular case was
Persephone and Hades and the pomegranate. In that whole bit

(18:59):
is that, okay, she ate six pomegranate seeds. So the
trade off they made was that she had to spend
six months in the underworld in six months with her
mother in on Earth. And so again even the ancient
gods couldn't kind of corrack these. Here's another one, so Celtic.
In Irish and Scottish lore, eating fairy food in the

(19:20):
other world makes you forget the mortal realm and traps
you there. Sometimes the food appears glorious but is actually
rotting leaves or ash glamour concealing the trap. The danger
is not just in trapment entrapment, but transformation, as the
food shifts your nature to match theirs. Japanese yo kai

(19:40):
e I think as how you say y okai and
yomi feasts in Japanese tales, those who eat food in
Yomi or the Land of the Dead were from yo
Kai hosts, spirits, I would presume, are unable to return home.
The food binds the eater's soul residence to that realm,
making re entry into the human world impossible without ritual purification.

(20:04):
And so, like I said, it goes on, it goes on.
There's there's hope, there's the Norse. There's al Alice in Wonderland,
which is one of the ones we know very well
with that eat me, Drink me, and that whole bit.
It's and this is I don't know. It's a strange
thing to consider that maybe there are metaphysical rules in
this capacity that actually control the conduct this cross realm

(20:25):
code of conduct as part of it. Now I've gone
through and made up kind of a list of these
what these rules might look like. Specifically, we'll start with
the exit velocity and foreign integrity, which means clearly the
two laws we just described in some capacity, once you're
on your way out, you do not look back. If
you look back, you doom everything you went there for. Two.

(20:47):
If you eat of that realm when you're in that realm,
it anchors you. You are stuck. And even back to
Persephone and Hades. The gods, even the gods of old
Zeus and Jupiter, could not break that deep magic from
the dawn of time and had to compromise somehow. You
see what's going on here. It seems to me like

(21:09):
like this is so ancient, this goes back so far
that maybe, just maybe there are actual metaphysical rules of
another realm itself. Does that make sense? It seems ridiculous
to say those words out loud, but you get what
I mean. In terms of mythology and folklore, all of
this stuff is so tight in terms of very specific things,

(21:31):
specific things you can do or you can not do,
very specific things of how you should when you shouldn't,
those types of ideas, and so, like I said, our
goal here tonight, as one of many, of course, is
to look at this and wonder why these things are
so incredibly specific, because it seems, you know, whether it

(21:51):
be a ton of willy nilly has kind of locked
into this kind of baked into these old mythological or
folklore ideas. However, in this particular case, it's very very
direct and very very very specific. There's more. Let's see
my mom Okay, the hopeie the Norris Hill's table. Yeah,
tons of stuff, so I can read you more of these.
But look, I don't know. Biblical Lot's wife when flee

(22:13):
in Sodom, Lot's wife is told not to look back
to the city's destruction. Many of you know this one.
She does and instantly turns into a pillar of salt.
This version frames a backwhard glance as an attachment to
a doomed past, punished with total immobilization once again, right,
don't look. It's a strange thing. This entire thing is
really odd to me. And like I said, the more

(22:35):
I'm thinking about this, the more it kind of feels
as if there is some sort of maybe unwritten rule
book that has been passed on through the oral tradition
forever where these things are actually real. And interestingly enough,
I've kind of got a loose framework for what that
might look like. And we'll start with exit velocity, don't
look back, and form integrity, meaning do not eat or

(22:58):
drink of another realm while you're there, because of course
that will corrupt your form. So we'll talk about that
as we go. And I don't know, what do you
know about this? And why is it that some of
this stuff, like I said, is very very very direct
and very very very specific, even though it's again from
all over the world, from hundreds of years ago to

(23:18):
thousands of years ago, back to the very first civilization
of er you are, why why does it?

Speaker 2 (23:27):
Why?

Speaker 4 (23:27):
Just why? I don't know. That's what's on my mind
tonight to hope you guys are well. Sorry about that, James,
if you try, yeah, try swap in the laptop. I
think it's probably a jack on your computer. We've narrowed
it down to its hardware in some capacity. We don't
know exactly what the plug part is, but anyway, we'll
hope you get James back here momentarily. Love to hear
your guys thoughts. We got Joe on the line and
we'll take your calls as we go. Seven oh two

(23:48):
nine five seven one zero three seven. Click the discord
link at Troubledminds dot org will put you on the show.
But what do you know about this and why is
it that this seems to be, as I said, very
very direct and very very specific, because that in particular
the rubb here. If you think this is nonsensical fairy tales,
then shouldn't these ideas be fractured. Shouldn't they be different,

(24:10):
shouldn't they be across time and space and culture, all
manner of wild ideas. Instead, it seems very much the
same as if the proto magic or that deep magic
from the dawna Time has a say and exactly what
we're dealing with tonight seven oh two nine one zero

(24:31):
three seven this is trouble minds him Michael Strange. Don't
go here and be right back. We got to hopefully
morphrom James here, we're getting started. We got Joe and Florida,
and Joe calls as well. Be right back.

Speaker 9 (24:57):
For shadows deep by horizon. You no change to find
a broken through echos fade. I'm upp in come. The
underworld feels so wrong with every stamp bunch shedding weight,
no looking back. It's undtree gates, every stamp bunch shedding waves,

(25:25):
no looking back.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
It's time to create. Feel the rhythm pulses.

Speaker 9 (25:34):
Side I like the fire ladders ride. We're chasing dreams,
not holding back. The under worlds lost in the trash,
the aca of the past. Followay in this broad lader.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
Choose to stay.

Speaker 9 (25:57):
That's electric, consoling high, no regressious reach.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
For the sky.

Speaker 9 (26:07):
Feel the rhythm pulsing side, Ignite the fire. Let it rise,
which I say, dreams not holding back the undo worlds lost.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
In the traction.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Let the night unfold with grace. In this moment, I
find my place. No fear of shadows haunting the the
future calls on finely, breath, feel the.

Speaker 9 (26:40):
Rhythm, pulsing side, Ignite the fire, letice rise, which I say,
dreams not holding back the undou world's lost in the track.

Speaker 4 (27:09):
Welcome back to Troubled Minds. I'm your host, Michael Strange.
We're streaming on YouTube, rumble x, Twitch, and Kick. We
are broadcasting live on the Troubled Minds Radio Network. That's
KUAP Digital Broadcasting in eighty eight point four FM Aucklands,
New Zealand tonight. Could there be a set of ancient
laws born from the first crossings between worlds still hidden

(27:31):
in our myths? Rules of sight, breath, silence, and offering that,
if followed, might allow someone to step into another realm
and return unchanged. Yeah, that puts us pretty much where
we need to be. And I love the fact that
you can be succinct about this and you can be
verbose about this, and it really, there's so much here that,

(27:54):
like I said, I've got a loose framework of what
these ancient laws might look like. We'll talk about that
as we go, but we'll start with exitlocity and the
form integrity, which are clearly just fancy ways of saying
eat me, drink me bad, and don't on your way out.
I have no idea what is going on with that,
So we basically tried everything. Then that's your laptop, right,

(28:14):
because so we've tried that's the headset on the PC.
That's the headset on the laptop.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (28:19):
I'll need to get the details, but yeah, that's that's horrific.
I'm sorry about that, James. I thought we had it
narrowed down. I was a ninety five percent confidence level
that we had narrowed it down to exactly what the
problem was. But now we have two different versions of
the same problem on two different machines. Anyway, if feel
up to James g ping me on what that is,
and we'll see if we can get that fixed. Like apologies,
I know how frustrating that is when it's go time
and you want to talk about this stuff, and he

(28:40):
spent time reading this stuff and you know, collaborating with
me a little bit when we started this show tonight,
so before the show, I mean, so anyway, I'd love
to hear your thoughts. James, shoot me over a message
and I'll see if we can get this fixed on
the fly. Here seven oh two nine one zero three
seven click the Discord link at Troubledminds dot org. Do
you want to Florida? What's up?

Speaker 2 (28:57):
My man?

Speaker 4 (28:58):
You're on Trouble Minds. How are you, sir?

Speaker 1 (29:00):
Hey? What's going on?

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Guys?

Speaker 4 (29:02):
Chilling man doing doing Trouble mind stuff. This is again
kind of a parallel with some of the things we've
talked about in the past. But what's your take? Go
right ahead.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
I've been call on the phone just to tell James
I've been having the same issue. I can hear you
in Discord, but something get updated where I click the
sound setting and I be get ecstatic. Ever since then,
I try to test it and I watch some videos
on and so I just have him bothered. Uh, desilos
Discord for this my opportunity to the show. But anyway,

(29:31):
like you mentioned, Joseph Campbell and Jennifer, Jenn's listening, I
might hear say the hero's journey. But looking back, you
know immediately what you know, without really doing any research,
just coming coming to mind. You know, looking back or
modern topics of glass is always greener. We want to

(29:52):
do something, go back to that. But at the same time,
I think looking back is for temptation. You know, less
do you look back to be tempted? If we stare
into the abyss the abyss, there's back for us. We
become the monsters.

Speaker 10 (30:08):
You know that when you look at.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
And history is fraught with wars and killing. I mean,
we're pretty violent, I would think, you know, but I
guess who knows, not comparable to what we don't know
what anything else, but you know there's always killing, always,

(30:33):
and you know, on the joke side of it, I
was kind of just.

Speaker 10 (30:38):
Thinking about it.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
I'm like in motent tins, you know, the temptation of
working back is like, you know, you go to the
two for one lap dance, like you're done and you're
getting ready to walk out, and you know when you
look back and there's the private room, you know, and
you don't want to do the private rooms. You just
got to keep walking out. But it's temptation, and that's

(31:01):
that's what I take it as. But what kind of
twisted me? Thinking about this very quickly in.

Speaker 10 (31:07):
The last few minutes from when we started the show.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
We should look back at the history, right, so in
that sense technically or have anyone splain it or word it,
we should look back into the history so we don't
repeat it. I was just telling myself that for the
last few minutes. But that's because probably were all the
good guys. We look back in the history so we
don't repeat it. We read these stories so we don't

(31:35):
repeat it. But what if it just kind of twisted me.
May's maybe everybody gets it.

Speaker 10 (31:40):
I just didn't.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
It's a perspective, and we have to put ourselves in
people's perspectives. When I work at the theateral hole, I
sink we could try to put myself in somebody's shoes,
try and get a little bit empathy and move along.
But in a large scale of things, what if our
readers some of the movies for art times or narcissists,

(32:06):
and they also look back in the history and they're
fine with all of that negativity, killing, and you're fine
with all of that there where we're looking back at
it cannot repeat it. They're looking back at it for
the purpose of repeating it, if that makes sense.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
Yeah, and it does draw you back, right, So, I
think in that liminal space we're talking about sort of
moving into the underworld, the shamanic journey, some of these
other mythological aspects of these tales, these tales as old
as time. Basically that looking back in a temporal space,
in that liminal space that as you're describing, is one

(32:44):
way to really, I don't know, condemn yourself because as
usual in the human temporal space, we only know have
the meat suit experience only you know, eighty one hundred
year stops type of thing. Like if we look but
you spend too much time sort of dwelling on the past,
you do doom yourself. You damn yourself to the eternity
of what was instead of the potentiality of what could be.

(33:06):
As part of it. I think that's that's as poignant
as anything we're probably going to touch on tonight, because
this is once again a very human aspect. And dare
we suggest even in modern times something like that could
be considered you know, the toes in the ocean of
that proto magic. I don't know, wild stuff. I love
that take ahead.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
Well, and when you say who is a breakaway? Whenever
you were saying.

Speaker 10 (33:28):
You're only a breakaway speed or breakaway.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Two things immediately come to mind. Most of all listeners
would probably agree with it. We're at the precipice of
the Star Trek future or the Distopian future, you know.
And if we were a look at Star Trek and
I we all end up using TV shows and things.

Speaker 10 (33:48):
Like that because it's been written in all of that.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
Right, Sometimes I feel like it's not original thought, But
I just put that out there. Don't even said anybody,
because I'm using a show right now.

Speaker 11 (33:57):
But do we want to use the.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Technology that we have now to create a better future
and not look back? Don't look back? Right, we tell it,
don't look back. If we were able to get into
that future, we would not have a reason to look back,
you know, we would hopefully have our basic needs. But
even in that Star Trek future, the Earth went through

(34:23):
through a devastating war, you know, and that was part
of that folklore for Broad and Berry's you know sci fi.
And then we see plenty of I mean, we always
go back to orwell and.

Speaker 10 (34:34):
Things like that, and.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
That's coming, you know, all of that is quietly as
we speak, coming to pass, things being rewritten and things
in the news that are being taken off at the
Library of Congress, right. So, I don't know if you
call it the echo chamber, I forget what.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
You call it.

Speaker 10 (34:54):
It's been so long side right or a while, but.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
Or listen to the for the interview of the boot
on our throat, you know, putting the boot on the
throat of do that and a chance to escape that
we oh, and maybe.

Speaker 10 (35:09):
You were not looking back.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
Maybe a lot of us want to get into that
positive future, but the people that lead us are so
drunk with power or created like that.

Speaker 10 (35:20):
That's an excuse, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
But it's cyclical. It's cyclical. So we have these stories.
And that's the other thing with these stories. I think
these stories, you know, the Bible, all of these books,
times change, people stay the same. It's in the matrix, it's.

Speaker 10 (35:37):
In the code.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
You know.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
I don't want to get too much away because somebody
was asked them to get anything you want. In the Sandman,
but basically the same man. You have these anthropomorphics, the
deities wanting around like humans, but they can't escape their
jobs like and even me, I didn't intend to be
a fueled that I had no intent to be in
you old director. And a few times that I tried

(36:02):
to leave or get out something, nothing that stabs me
back in it for money or something, but it's it's
never money.

Speaker 10 (36:12):
It has been money once or twice actually for somebody
like give you a nice tip at the cemetery.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
But most of the time, in all honesty, it's a letter,
it's a hug, it's something positive. It makes you say,
you know, I'm not leaving this anytime soon. I am
not changing anytime soon. Coulda should have ordered. I look
back by a lot of things that could have done,
you know, offers to work for three letter agencies, things

(36:38):
like that that I've aged out of.

Speaker 10 (36:40):
But I regret.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
It, maybe for a split second, because if I did
those things, if I went down that path, down that story,
I wouldn't have maybe the life that I have now,
for better or for us, who can judge. I have
a roof over my head, you know. For the time being,
I'm kind of healthy. I'm on a top show with
you guys, kind of chilling out before the weekend. I

(37:02):
got to DJ tomorrow night. I enjoy that right, So who.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
Knows the road?

Speaker 1 (37:07):
You know the other path let's travel. Why would I
look back? Yeah?

Speaker 10 (37:11):
Well, I think we all have a tendency.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
We all have a tendency to look back. But if
looking back is the abyss, you don't or just be careful,
you don't get consumed. I guess you know.

Speaker 10 (37:23):
I don't know how to end that any really good
for that.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
But you know, again, if I look back at the
strip club, I have a lot of credit card debt.
So you don't even want to look back there because
you don't want to get suckered in. You know, have
a couple of drinks. All you always miss much money
for ten dances. It's like, witch, please, I didn't need
that money dancers.

Speaker 10 (37:42):
I know I'm drunk, but I.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Gotta get out of here, so don't even go back
to the beginning. That's the whole thing. So I don't
need it. I don't need somebody take it all. I
don't need tell me why I.

Speaker 10 (37:51):
Don't need a girl taking all my money.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
My water will kill me?

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Amen?

Speaker 4 (37:56):
Amen? Yeah? Yeah. A new A new angle there that
I didn't considered as part of this is that it's
still it's still the same magic within the human space
where even now sort of you could dwell in the
past forever and damn your future forever. And so yeah,
even outside of that liminal space of you know that
the underworld we're talking about tonight and some of the

(38:16):
mythology and folklore, it certainly does play just in the
human lifespan. As part of this conversation, Well, sa, I
don't know that that's a fantastic What else I got
if anything else can?

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Well, you know when it comes to that all of
a sudden, I you know, I alluded today.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
So I.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
Had as had a couple of major events with my
health and stuff. But I think reading before I got
to the help things, I had an asure event and
I'm not proud of it. But the thing that you
have to learn to do is you're getting forgiven to
some others.

Speaker 10 (38:47):
You have to forgive yourself. You have to forgive yourself.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
So anybody out there it's feeling down or shitty, cooler
reason or something big did or something like that, you
gotta learn how to forgive yourself. It's a positive affirmation
something like that, and take a step back. Because I've
been having to do that and it's with my job
and my life, my family life. You have to step

(39:11):
back and appreciate what you have and sometimes when you
all decided.

Speaker 10 (39:14):
That, I know I did for a little bit. I'm
trying to.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
Try to put that big perspective. A lot of that
For me, it was my age having a couple of
things pop up. But you know, you call it the
mid life thing at my age or not. But for me,
it's feeling out of touch with things. Yeah, and even
though I am pretty well still in touch with things,
maybe it's I'm trying to, you know, grow up whatever

(39:39):
that is, you know. But I don't want to do that.
I mean, I want to talk on this show. I
want to talk about weird things. I want to talk
about things that I can't talk about with dormies, if
that makes sense. So I guess I guess I'll forgive myself.
I'm just keep being a little bit weird, right.

Speaker 4 (39:56):
It's a There's a guy named Robert Green is a
great writer and I follow on Twitter. Actually should too,
everybody out there. Very good. But one of the things
he says is that, you know, being weird, what makes
you different and unique is your superpower. And just because
you're sort of ostracized from society as part of it.
You shouldn't give it up because it is what makes
you unique, not just that, it's what sort of empowers

(40:17):
you against the space that is so vanilla, you know,
the concrete jungle of today. We're building amazing buildings a
thousand years ago. I mean, like, what the hell is
going on with that? And so again I agree with you.
I'm a weirdo too, and this gives me an outlet
to be that weirdo without just bottling this stuff up
and wondering what the hell the underworld is and how

(40:38):
come there are these specific rules all the way around
the world forever talking about it directly, it seems it
seems pretty silly to me that there's not a larger
connection made in some of these cases. And so here
we are, man, here we are having fun together.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
They don't they don't.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Want that one.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
I mean, like I think I said earlier about perspective shift,
the people that come the it's because they're not scared
of who they're gonna hurt on the way up. And
when they get there, and that's the story as all
this time. When they get there, that have to maintained

(41:14):
power and then they and look at the technology. I mean,
look at the look at the look at colcists. I
mean it's if we write it out of a history book,
or we had it on two or form tablets, if
it was on the walls, if it was on the paintings. Hey,
look this is bad. It's just very bad. The people

(41:37):
in power would still not giving that up there not
I'll just use the oil industry.

Speaker 4 (41:40):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
Like I said, the better we can have a better life, right,
we know that there's probably different forms of energy out there.
We can literally have a better life, and it's just
denied because and the thing is is it's because there's
not enough of us. And I dare use the word woke. Okay,

(42:02):
a lot of us are confused. A lot of us
are too busy paying bills. A lot of us are
just too busy.

Speaker 10 (42:06):
To look up God Dad. And I don't want to
get mad.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Because I enjoy talking on this show. I get a
little bit that gets me a little emotional. There's not
enough of us to look up to do one thing,
that one thing, because like you say, if it bleeds,
it leads in every day a groundman shifting beneath us.
We cannot get our footing to stand up and say
can we just change one thing and go from there.

(42:34):
It leaves you feeling powerless. It leaves me, at least
in these last.

Speaker 10 (42:40):
Few years, in those last few months.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
It leaves me looking at other people and saying, I
don't want to talk.

Speaker 10 (42:46):
To these people because I'm not going to agree with
goddamn thing.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
So in that sense, it's hard to get out of that.
I think it's harder now. I think it's harder now
with me mass spread of information. It's hard enough with
all those stories. Those stories were clearly warnings to everything,
and people read those stories around the campfire, around them,

(43:12):
whatever it was they read those stories. I think those
stories were picked up and told other people, and told
other people hopefully of the same good nature. On the
other end of it, there will probably people telling the
opposite story. I mean, look at Jesus. Jesus was telling
a good story his old people killed. I guess I

(43:35):
should probably end with.

Speaker 4 (43:36):
That, You're gonna get me in trouble.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
You're the best.

Speaker 4 (43:41):
You appreciate you very much. Thank you for standing uplight with us. Hey,
keep playing hockey man, keep dreaming, keep thinking weird and wild.
What makes the.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
Figures are broken too? Figures broken too spots. Yeah, my
figure's broken two spots. And uh, my crust has been
a little bit up. And usually just riding a bike
in Florida doesn't ride a bike five to ten miles
is not parting for it. So my blood pruss has
been a little up. I got to get back on
the ice, school me off for six weeks. I looked
at the the doctor, I'm like, can I just splinter

(44:11):
it and put it in a glove? And he looked
at me like I had nine heads, and he's like,
you guys, you know. Sorry, But yeah, when I get
back on the ice as soon as I can, i'll
be DJ tomorrow. So I get to cover for my
buddies like two or three nights, so you know.

Speaker 10 (44:28):
A month. So that's kind of a good release.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
It's fun, but it's just so hot to do anything here,
it's not fun. So I'm not anyway, thank you for that.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
Yeah yeah, and I'm not a doctor, but in the meantime,
oats every morning. We'll lower your blood blood pressure a
little bit naturally, so maybe try that out then, And.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
I appreciate it. A little bit of fiber at night
to keep you regular.

Speaker 10 (44:51):
You get the basthroom.

Speaker 4 (44:52):
So you were the best. Appreciate the call. Heal quick
and kinds of pleasure. We'll talk to you soon. You're
the best.

Speaker 10 (44:59):
I have good Rea, Judge Pilot.

Speaker 4 (45:00):
Thanks you too. Tickare you know we love Joe and
Florida again shout out. Kelly was the first guy to
call us and call back. Joe was the second guy
to call us and call back. He's been a friend
literally for seven plus years now and always a great take.
And again part of that invisible process I always talk about.
He's a funeral director. He's got a very unique view
of the world because he is sort of handling that
transaction we're talking about tonight, the transaction of the underworld. Yeah,

(45:24):
it's a I can't imagine doing something like that. It
certainly takes a certain individual to be able to handle
those things. I can't imagine the stress level as part
of it. Yeah, tonight we're talking about. To appreciate the call, Joe,
always a pleasure. We're talking about this again. I'm calling
it the Crossroom Code of Conduct, Exit Velocity and form Integrity.
I'll tell you what that means. As part of these
laws because I was able to kind of break down

(45:44):
what these laws might mean and how come? As usual,
the question is why are there so many similarities throughout
time and geography and culture that literally directly say, do
not look back on your way out from the other realm,
the other world, the underworld, whatever you want to call it.
Do not eat anything or drink anything when you're of
that space, because you will get lost and be anchored

(46:06):
in as part of it. Those are just two things.
There's more as part of this. But what do you think,
Why is it so specific and so direct? And how come?
Let's say, is there more to this than we think
there might be? Seven O two nine seven one zero
three seven click the discord like a troublelies dot org.
Let's cross our fingers and pray everybody a little little
bit of good mojo. James Salcido. I don't hear the

(46:27):
big fuzz, which was crazy. Somebody Jenmia over there on
X shout Out said that that was happening to her
discord as well. So I think we might have some
some other things happening here that are not maybe what
we think they are, If this might be discord related,
I don't hear you add all, James, are you there,
tes twenty two? I don't know if you can hear me,

(46:47):
because nothing nothing, nothing coming through. It might be just
a setting, tweak thing. James, are you there? It's not good.
It is the bad the bad noise. It is the
bad noise. Again, I have no idea what the hell
is happening? Like we've swapped all the things, done all
the things, okay, so I have no idea. We did
t James and I did some troubleshooting a little ways back,

(47:10):
and we thought we had this fixed. And I have
no idea what the hell is happening. So once again,
a massive apologies to James there because, like I said,
he's been looking forward to this tonight and not just
testing it with the new microphone and stuff, but also
he prepped, he prepped up for this and was ready
to go. And then we can't even James call back
on the phone line. Yeah, you're welcome to sit there
on the phone line if if you're into that. I

(47:32):
know that's a little different experience and kind of a
painting the butt for you, but if, if, if you,
I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. If you
want to jump in here, call us back on the
phone line, and yeah, you can sit in that way
or however you want to do this. Man, Like I said,
I feel really bad because he did. He put in
some work. He helped me sort of brainstorm the ideas tonight.
He yeah, it's a it's rough. It's rough, so sorry

(47:53):
about that. Thanks, thanks again to everybody for being patient
as part of it. I see there, mister Matthew in
Colorado and why you left. But okay, pop back in
here and we'll talk momentarily. Okay, but I want to
read this too. This is I think this is in
the rite up. It was part of the brain storming process.
Now when we're talking about this idea of the cross
realm code of conduct, right exit, velocity and form integrity,
this is where this came from. Listening to this. So

(48:15):
the first law, don't look back. Looking back as a
reorientation of focus toward the realm you are leaving, and
mythic logic movement between worlds is intention driven, a kind
of spiritual momentum. A backward glance re establishes the tether
to where you've been, collapsing the liminal bridge and stabbing

(48:37):
you back into the old state. This could be symbolic
of quantum observation. By measuring the departure point, you collapse
the possibility of full transition into something irreversible. In a
practical shamanic sense, it's about not splitting your will between realms.

(48:58):
And that's the first one's don't look back. The second
the second law. And I've got a list of these,
like seven or eight of these, which are incredible because
it draws from folklore, it draws from mythology and these
ideas that have been with us forever. Second law, don't
eat or drink. Eating or drinking is the deeper commitment,

(49:20):
while looking back reorients your consciousness. Consuming the other world's
food reprograms your essence. It's an internalization, literally taking the
realm into yourself. In myth this is the point of
no return because the realm now exists within your body.
You've altered your resonance, making you incompatible with your origin world.

(49:43):
This mirror's ideas from sympathetic magic. We're consuming something as
akin to binding yourself to it.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
Now.

Speaker 4 (49:49):
This is where these laws work together, and where these
actual terms came from. Exit velocity and form integrity. Listening
to this, how these two things work together in this
ancient magic sense proto magic. The first law protects this
exit velocity. Don't look back or you lose the momentum
to leave. Second, the second law protects form integrity. Told

(50:14):
you I'd explain what these meant. Don't consume or you
won't be the same being that's set out, and so
you won't be able to return to your original reality.
Does that make sense? Okay? I got a big list
of these, and so really the question of tonight is
why are there so many rules, these mythological folkloric rules

(50:34):
that are again all over every couple culture, all over
the damn world, all manner of hundreds of years ago
to thousands of years ago, all the way back to
the very beginning of the human proto civilization. We're telling
these same tales about these same things as if there
was some deep magic before the Toma dawn of time
rule book or cookbook or something. And I'm calling that

(50:58):
the cross Realm code of conduct. And not only is
it possible, at least in my mind, that we knew
all of this so long ago, but now we're still
telling these same damn stories. As Joe said very smartly,
that maybe these are all warnings, These are all things
that have been abused, or these are things that have
been well trapped people, and now we just joke about

(51:24):
them as if they are you know, a good old story.
I don't know, what do you think? Is there a
such thing as a proto magic as I'd like to
talk about that deep magic from the dawna time or
even deeper from before the dawna time? And how weird
does it get? And what do you know about this?
What about eat me, drink me? What about eating in
other realms? Looking back on your way out, seems like
there's a lot here, but maybe I'm dreaming and if

(51:47):
I am cool seven oh two nine five seven one
zero three seven click the discord link at troublebinds dot org.
Love to hear your thoughts on this. We got Matthew
and Colorado coming up and your calls as well.

Speaker 8 (52:00):
Be right back more on the way.

Speaker 4 (52:25):
Welcome back to Troubled Minds. I'm your host, Michael Strange.
We're streaming on YouTube orromo x, Twitch and kick. We
are broadcasting live on the Troubled Minds Radio Network. That's
k UAP Digital Broadcasting and eighty eight point four fm Auckland,
New Zealand. Shout out to our friend Jason over there
on YouTube. Iy cee, I missed your buddy. Welcome to
the thing tonight. We're talking look a Deep Magic from

(52:45):
the dawna time. You know, I love this because not
only does it sort of touch up on C. S.
Lewis and that idea that there are these sort of
mystical metaphysical laws that go back way before humanity and
we're just kind of living a world trying to, you know,
kind of eke them out from dreams and mystic symbolism
and you know, the shamanic journey and people talking about

(53:07):
these ideas. But the thing that gets me when you
talk about, as I'm calling its night, the cross Realm
code of conduct, which you know, don't look back on
your way out from this realm to the next, don't
eat or drink anything of that realm or it binds
you in some capacity and exit velocity in this form integrity.
Are these rules as remembered and passed on by the

(53:29):
ancients culture to culture thousands, hundreds of years, you name it.
It's all over the place, and it does make me
wonder if there's something to that larger context of what
ritual magic is, or even beyond ritual magic itself, back
to the idea of that proto magic, like some level
of actual metaphysical laws that we've been trying to catch

(53:53):
up to ever since humans were a thing. I don't know,
seem weird too weird, not weird enough. You tell me
lots of ways to look at this, and that's why
we do this. Seven oh two nine five seven one
zero three seven Click to the discord link at Trouble
Minds dot her. We'll put you on the show just
like this. Thank for me a Patie, my Man, Matthew
and Colorado. You are on Trouble Minds. How are you, sir?
Oh yours?

Speaker 2 (54:11):
Go right ahead, Well, hopefully my discord works. Can you America?

Speaker 4 (54:15):
Sound okay? No problem there? No slain dragons tonight. James
has got a slew of them he's handling.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
I'm going to go with Actually it's a shortness chord
to his mic or something.

Speaker 4 (54:28):
Well anyways, well, well real quick on that, because because
now we're brainstorming this, because we we we've been through this.
It was his headset and he threw that out and
he's using a completely new thing. With it, which is
a USB instead of the pink and the green. So
we're I thought, like I said, I thought we had
it licked. And now he's got a whole new device
that's not only happening on his desktop but on his
laptop also, So now it almost seems like it's a

(54:50):
software discord thing anyway, Yes, but that's definitely what it
sounds like. Welcome, welcome to the thing. I'll shut my
mouth about tech issues, go ahead, which you got.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
Well, I yes, you know. Starting out with generally speaking,
the entering a different realm, it does strike me how
similar the stories don't really You could use the term myth,
but that makes it sound like it's false and made up.
And I think a lot of times things are referred

(55:22):
to as myth when they're just not comprehended or accepted
by Western minds. Right, Oh, it's this myth, This like
like it's a made up story or fantasy or fiction. Well,
and some of them may have you know, it's kind
of like a fishing story. Perhaps, you know, the fish
gets bigger and bigger every time you tell the story.

(55:45):
But a lot of times they have, you know, their
roots in truth, or are truth they're just kind of
fantastical tales. And I was thinking about other similar ones
with like Shambala and people talking about going inside Mount Shasta, right,

(56:07):
And there's just a lot of these stories of people
crossing into other realms through various means, right, But they have,
like you're saying, they have these similar themes. They have

(56:28):
these similar sort of rules, similar experiences. In another one
that came up when you were describing the what is
it the Payute Indians of Arizona. Correct, Yes, Yeah, so
that really reminded me that is probably where they It

(56:50):
seems so identical that that's probably where they stole the
idea for the movie with Robin Williams, who I think
was feeling Field of Dreams? Did you see that one?

Speaker 4 (57:03):
No, what Dreams May Come?

Speaker 2 (57:04):
You mean, right, what dreams? What dreams? You right?

Speaker 12 (57:07):
Right? Right?

Speaker 2 (57:08):
The Field of Dreams is the baseball thing? But yeah,
what Dreams May Come? Right? Did you see that one?

Speaker 4 (57:12):
I did. It's been a long time, but I remember
when I saw it. I was very impressed and thought
it was a good movie.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
Yeah, it was excellent. And the basic you know, theme
and plot of the movie was he was going back
to retrieve his wife and you know, had to cross
over the realms and and wasn't it that movie where
there's that horrific scene where he has to walk across

(57:40):
all the skulls and some of them are alive? Or
am I confusing two differently?

Speaker 4 (57:47):
I have no idea. It has been so long since
I've seen it. I couldn't even tell you. But it
sounds horrific either way.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
Yeah, right, But he's basically, you know, crosses over and
and and gets into the other realm, and at first
it's all magical in heavenly and everything like that, but
then he has to go find her and I'm not sure,
but I think she had committed suicide, so she was
kind of in a hellish type place, you know, and
goes down there to retrieve her, and was very similar.

(58:17):
But so, why is it that we have so many
of these motifs, so many of these themes from so
many cultures, from you know, all around the world, and
like you said, for hundreds or thousands of years. Is
that just coincidence? Is it, you know, some type of
archetype or is there something you know, legitimate objective that

(58:42):
that happens that's the basis for these and in terms
of the first two things that you mentioned about don't
look back and sort of collapsing the quarantum field, that
one immediately made sense to me. I was like, you know, yeah, okay, now,
now all of a sudden, the silly little rule don't

(59:03):
look back sources started makes sense that where you're focusing
your attention, if your attention is going forward, back out
to your own reality, and you turn and look back,
that puts your attention and kind of that observer effect

(59:28):
back into the other realm. And that reminded me. I
don't know how this fits in, but I've had experiences
for a long time where you know, you have the
different tote of animals, right, different power animals, and the

(59:49):
owl became one of mine. And I've had visions and
experiences with the owl. And one of the things that
the owl can do is darn air, turn its head
all the way around. It could definitely look behind itself
just by turning its head without turning its body. And

(01:00:10):
so for me, the experiences that I've had and the
importance of the owl is imagine it sitting on the
branch of a tree facing the light, its breast facing
the light, but it can turn its head and look

(01:00:30):
back into the darkness and see into the darkness, but
it doesn't get affected by it because it hasn't turned
its body. It has it turned its heart, it hasn't
turned its breast. It hasn't. So the owl gives this
unique ability to see and not be affected. And so

(01:00:56):
somehow that occurred about the don't look back that that
perhaps that's almost like a hack, like if if you
had an owl magic, you know, maybe maybe you could
turn and look back without being affected.

Speaker 4 (01:01:09):
But yeah, shout out Matzel temple of the owl over there. Yeah,
I never thought of it like that, and you're right.
So again, so the resonance of our heart, that electromagnetic
fields of our physiology, and of course that goes into
the animal kingdom. And so I do wonder, I do
wonder if the ability to kind of look back behind
you and keep your heart space, your you know, the chakras.
What however, you want to describe this as still forward facing.

(01:01:32):
Maybe maybe it is some sort of hack that goes
back as not just deep magic from the dawna time,
but deeper magic from before the dawna time that maybe
is still locked into the animal kingdom. Somehow I love
that thought.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Yeah, and and then so yeah, these you know, like
the stories of Shambala and and it's a really long book,
but if anybody has time to read it, The Mists
of Avalon. So that's the story of the Arthurian legend,
but it's all told through the woman's h the women's perspective.

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
And and so you have Morgan and morgana and uh
and Merlin's in it too, And and they go to Avalon,
which is this island, you know, and they have you
have to take this like row boat out there, and
at first, you know, kind of you uh, it's almost

(01:02:32):
like there's a what are they called the wayfarer or whatever,
the boat guy, and you have to be like a
part of the the priesthood or priestesses and the people
that go to Avalon's this this sort of this magical
island that's in a realm that is accessible and sort

(01:02:57):
of superimposed with the real world. And that's where MORGANA
and Merlin and stuff. They go there, and there's like
a you know, small community that live on Avalon. But
as time goes on, what happens is magic fades from

(01:03:20):
the world and people like stop believing in magic, and
they stop believing in Avalon. And what happens is that
And this doesn't ruin the book, but generally speaking, the
island of Avalon starts fading into the mists and gets

(01:03:42):
like harder and harder to reach and go to, until
you know, eventually it's in too much of a different realm.

Speaker 4 (01:03:54):
Yeah, I dig that, And we've talked about that too,
the power of belief in prayer, you know, the monks
You've brought up several times as part of these conversations,
and so once again I think, I think there's an
interesting element here when you're talking about magic or sort
of metaphysical magic or ritual magic and things like that,
that the power of prayer or the power of belief
or the power of intention, and all these things they

(01:04:15):
play somehow even in a secular space, because as we're
still learning about ourselves, the morphic field and the morphic resonance,
the Rupert Sheldrake stuff. Again, thank you for introducing us
to that as well. There's a lot happening sort of
within the vortex of the human experience, not just as
I said, the electromagnetic field, but the intention of a
and maybe directional of this of this particular thing. And

(01:04:37):
maybe that's why, let's say, with the morphic resonance or whatever,
that that that phenomenon is where somebody is staring at
the back of your head and you know they're there.
You can't hear them, there's no way you should know,
but you know they're there. Like I wonder if we're
picking up on a larger I don't know, like a
like a like an actual the intentionality of looking and
that observer effect, right, as part of what we described

(01:04:58):
as when you first call in is that you are
the intention is in front of you, you were watching it,
and so there might be some actual perturbations with the
uh you know, the quantum consciousness as part of it.
And maybe that's why we pick up these these fields,
are these these energies. I don't know, it's a it all.
It's all incredible to me to consider it. But uh

(01:05:20):
maybe right, maybe this is that ancient magic that is
now becoming modern science all in the same space.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
Yeah, and and it is just a really interesting thing
to combine sort of uh you know, shell Drake's morphogenetic
field and morphic residence and you know which which I
always say, you know, he didn't really invent that idea
of you know, let's just call it collective consciousness or

(01:05:50):
call Young called it the collective unconscious. Uh. But what
he did was bring a more scientific take on it
because he's a biologist. Yeah, so he you know, he
did you know, studies and experiments and quite a few
of them. He developed an application where that you could

(01:06:10):
sign up and it's a phone app, and you know
where people have uh you know, when your phone rings
and as soon as it rings, you like think of
somebody and that you haven't thought, ever heard of or
heard from in six months, and you pick up your
phone and sure enough it's them. Uh. That's another phenomena.
And he developed a phone app and got you know,

(01:06:33):
thousands of people to do an experiment of when the
phone would ring. They would use the app and make
a guess of who was on the phone. And you know,
so he's he's collecting, you know, the more scientific data
for something that's you know, been a known concept in
a couple of different areas are explaining different ways. But

(01:06:58):
the interesting thing kind of like the mists of Avalon
or the concept of the old gods, and that when
people stop believing in him. They kind of faded away,
but we had a show, i know, a couple of
years ago where you know, if if the people start
believing in the gods again and getting interested in the gods,

(01:07:21):
does it does it resurrect them? You know, does does
our attention, the energy of our consciousness, the focus of
our attention, does that flow out and connect these things?
Connect to the realms, connect to the the beings, to

(01:07:41):
the arkans or the archetypes, or the old gods or
something like that. And you know this, you know Terence mckinna,
you know, who of course had the trialogues with Sheldreck.
He has a whole book called The Archaic Revival and
the concept of the book was, you know, going back

(01:08:04):
to some of the archaic shamanic practices, uh uh, you know,
ingesting hallucinogens and these sorts of things, and excuse me,
you know, maybe there's you know, his idea was, this
is uh something that might be appropriate and important with

(01:08:28):
you know, our modern world where we're getting lost in
technology and everybody's staring at their cell phones, and you know,
maybe we had some really good stuff back in the past.
You know, when people were trans dancing and and doing
hallucinogens and and doing dream work, and concerned with these
other realms you know before you know, they called the

(01:08:50):
age of Enlightenment, but basically that means, you know, the
dawn of science displacing religion and and maybe in a
way this of perfect words, but in a way, maybe
there's something we kind of lost and got left out,
that's missing, that's important that we need back again right

(01:09:11):
now because we're in a precarious time.

Speaker 4 (01:09:15):
Tell me about it, and again you're preaching to the choir,
And thanks for guiding that back to my fractured thought
of that belief. Maybe imagine if sort of that idea
of you know, the monks, you know, meditating together for
weeks and days at a time, however long that was, months,
whatever it was, it's supposedly again, I'd like to see

(01:09:36):
this replicated and continue to maybe even grown into larger nodes.
Of this happening brings down the crime rate. Okay, Now,
if the same thing happens in the sense of belief
or like like we've discussed previously, and you brought up
the old gods, if imagine if we all started believing
in them again, would their influence maybe not the entities themselves,

(01:09:57):
but the human influence of us, the energy of us
recognizing them, would that come back into the world. And
I don't know. I mean, I think it's relevant to
consider it because we still can't really quantify what a
prayer is. It just changed things, obviously, even in a
secular space, like I said, measurable or otherwise as yet.

(01:10:20):
But I would not be shocked if suddenly a lot
of these old ways that we've discovered scientifically now are
going to start changing things in ways that we never
dreamed as part of this quickening I'm always talking about.
And then what was the other thing? And then back
to where you finished? I think we are. That's exactly
the point. That's why I'm here as often and as
passionately as I am, because I think we're missing something

(01:10:43):
and if we entirely just ditch the old ways, we
are in for a hell of a ride. And so
let's not forget. I'm not saying, you know, let's go
worship Mithra or whatever. I'm not saying that. I'm saying
that maybe just maybe there's something to some of these
old entities or ideas or frequencies. Maybe, I mean, maybe,
maybe not. But I think you're right. I think that

(01:11:05):
forgetting some of this stuff might lead us down some
paths that are not the best, not the best. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
Well, you brought up an interesting you slipped in in
one sentence there a very nuanced thing about like bringing
back to gods, and then you said, or maybe not
bringing back to gods, but the idea of them or whatever.
And that's interesting, Michael, because you could consider, you know,
the placebo effect, which is best I can recall scientifically

(01:11:36):
is eighteen percent effectiveness of the placebo effects. So let's
call it the power of belief. Right, it works, It's known,
it's scientifically proven. Okay, now, just real quick, given the
idea of believing in the gods, you know, some old

(01:11:57):
god or something, even if the old god itself is
not like reborn or brought back or et cetera, you
still got that eighteen percent placebo effect. However, I think
it could potentially go beyond belief and the Pacibo effect,

(01:12:18):
because you know, like I said, maybe those gods weren't met,
maybe they were real, and the demi gods. And you know, again,
how many cultures had had these things, you know, kind
of all of them. Is that just coincidence, a function
of the human mind that you know, if God didn't exist,

(01:12:39):
it would be necessary to invent him, you know, is
it that? Or were these actual beings and entities and
we have the stories of them, and so in that sense,
then you would say they're real. And so it's not
just a function of belief, it's not just the placebo effect.

(01:13:00):
But really the bottom line is it doesn't matter because
either way it could be beneficial. And in terms of
a you know, if you want to put on my
tinfoil hat, in terms of the last part of what
we were talking about, what I mentioned about the archaic revival,
and you know, there's kind of some good things, you know,

(01:13:21):
for the past that we've gotten away with and stuff
with the tinfoil hat would say, well, that's on purpose
by you know, the powers that be in the hidden hand,
and you know, an intentional effort to separate us from
our heritage, from our spiritual heritage, from these the realms,

(01:13:44):
from dreaming from you know, when when you take something
like callucinogens that transform humanity and you make it a
Class one controlled substance, you know, twenty five years in prison,
you can kind of you know, they're trying to keep
us away from what opens our mind end and might
give enlightenment. And you know, it's sort of in a way,

(01:14:05):
it's it's a war against spirituality because spirituality does open
people's minds and free people's minds, and and for the
powers that be, that's not good because they want to
control our minds.

Speaker 1 (01:14:16):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
So, uh, the conspiracy theorist in me wants to say, yeah,
that's by design. And so the the anti authoritium anti
authoritarian in me says, well, to heck with them. You know,
let's do what they don't want us to do. We
need more of it, not less, right, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:14:34):
Yeah, don't don't push this button. And instantly everybody's pushing
the button to see what happens. Like like, I don't know,
like a humans. Humans are an interesting lot, that's for sure,
but but I do think, you know, tinfoil hat style
is part of this that it is. I did talk
about this last week sort of that that war on
religion for a very long time now, and at least
my entire life has probably been going on beyond that.

(01:14:56):
But I mean, and look, and you can make you
can make a a singular case, you know, for or
against and make it compelling. I think too, you know,
because there's there's a lot of religious things that have
been horrific over the years, and you know, things done
in the name of religion. But what I mean was
that really religion?

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
You know?

Speaker 4 (01:15:12):
What I mean, was that was that really like sort
of the will of God? When you got some some
sicko that kind of co opted the movement and did
terrible things to people. Of course, not of course not
yeah good.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
Yeah, they were just doing it in the name of
religion or using religion as an excuse, and and that's
a that's a common old ploy. So so if that's
what they were doing, should you really hold it against
the religion itself when it's not really a part of
the religion. It was just being co opted, right that

(01:15:45):
that's it seems illogical and unfair to me.

Speaker 4 (01:15:48):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's just take taking the worst of
the worst of a group of people and then saying
this is what all those people are like it's oh,
by the way, there's a term for that. It's called bigotry. Yeah,
that's what it's called. And so it's so the you know,
when twenty year old me is like you know, religious
people freak me out a little bit because I've never
been religious. Okay, not directly. But then now older me
is like, wait a minute, now, Mike, twenty year old

(01:16:11):
Mike was just a religious bigot because he didn't understand
any of that stuff. And again, you as as we
our brain forms and we recognize groups and all the
rest of this stuff, we sort of try and you know,
divide them into good and bad, and especially once you
don't understand, you want to easily look to the worst

(01:16:31):
of the worst and say, well, bad, bad group, bad group,
which obviously is dumb and not productive. And anyway, we're
just about a time. You're welcome to stay passive break.
If you got more you seem to be locked into
this as usual, you tell me, but ten seconds a
final thought, and then you're welcome to stay for the break.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
If you got more, well, I think it's a great topic.
I't my hang out a bit and dip in and
add if people and around or perfect.

Speaker 4 (01:16:56):
You were the best you know and me you love
him Matthew and Colorado, Troubleminds dot Com or Forward Slave Friends,
scroll down and go give him a follow and all
the places go check out his book, and there might
be still a coupon coach there for free books. Check
it out. There's Troubleminds dot org forard slized friends Matt's books.
There go click. That's more trouble Minds on the way.
Don't go anywhere. I love to hear your thoughts on this.
There's a lot happening. What does it mean?

Speaker 13 (01:17:18):
Be right back, Welcome back to Troubled Minds.

Speaker 4 (01:17:39):
I'm your host, Michael Strange. All the places, all the
things troubleminds dot org. Follow our friends, look up. I
can't say this enough. I say this over and over
and over and over again because I mean it. This
is not just me. This is not called a troubled mind.
This is troubled minds. And the whole point of these
conversations is to look at the world differently and can

(01:18:00):
considered narratives that are not political, to consider narratives that
are not cooked up in a lab and thrown out
into the mass media. If it bleeds, it leads type
stuff mk ultra for the masses. It's us considering ideas
together about the past, the presence, and the future. Help
our friends Troubled Minds dot or towards life friends. There's

(01:18:20):
so many people there that have made this show go
over the years, and everybody's welcome. Like I get it.
I didn't, you know, personally reach out and invite you
or whatever. It doesn't matter. You're invited and you're welcome.
And this is big ten conspiracy, as I like to
call it, because look, those reality tunnels play in all
the different ways. We all grew up a little bit different,
different places, different times, different everything, you name it, different

(01:18:44):
levels of sort of religious contact or aspects context or
aspects of our lives were not completely secular. You know,
I grew up in California, so you know, don't judge me.
I'm really sorry about that. I didn't choose where I
was born. But it's a really nice place. The weather's great.
Just don't bring up the rent. I'll get pissed. But
you get the idea. The whole point of this is

(01:19:05):
to kind of break down those narratives and then reform
our narrative. What is our narrative? How do you actually
formulate that together? We're sort of a live, live experiment,
like a project, like a science project here, a social project,
just considering well all manner of weird and wild things,

(01:19:25):
and tonight we started with this great story about shin
ah Av, the legendary city in Death Valley. Death Valley
is like here, It's an hour hour and a half drive.
They have the big thermometer there if you guys have
ever been there, And there are these just gorgeous sand
dunes that go past out there, and it looks like
the deepest desert you've ever seen in your life. And

(01:19:47):
they tell you to not go out of sight because
the heat out there in the summertime is incredible. Not
just like it gets up to like one thirty, but
you get that effect of the heat beating down on
the sand dunes and then also reflecting back up. So
if you go out there, and even if you're out
well hydrated and you know, hardy as the day is long,
you could succumb quickly and could gain And so I

(01:20:11):
didn't know until recently. I was kind of just going
through some of these old articles and some of some
of these older ideas and looking for, you know, inspiration
in all the ways. But there's a there's a tale
of this actual legendary underground city from the Pyute natives
talking about this Death Valley underground space and of course
it got me back on this a little bit of

(01:20:31):
the uh, the the folklore of this, and then the
the the tale of the Chief. They went underground to
find his wife, and on his way back, he looked back,
and they told him, they warned him the entities of
the underground city, the underworld itself. They warned him, do
not look back, and he did, and all the toil
and trial of getting into this realm to bring his

(01:20:52):
wife back from the land of the dead was spoiled
because he simply looked back. Weird, right, which reminds me
of that deep magic from the dawn of time, that
sort of metaphysical rules of well, the space we live in?
What do you know about it? Eat me, drink me,
remember all that? Yeah, Lewis Carroll, cool stuff. Why do

(01:21:15):
you think these rules exist and persist in mythology and folklore?
And how come nobody talks about this stuff? By the way,
that's what I want to know. Love to hear what
you think. There's a lot of ways to look at this,
and I've got some other laws. Maybe because you know,
you can kind of extrapolate from mythology and folkl or
how some of this fits or doesn't and maybe say, okay,
so here's a couple laws of that ancient metaphysical space.

(01:21:39):
Don't look back on your way out because the will
is your Your will is the way. Don't eat or
drink of that realm while you're there because it spoils you.
And those two things again, I'm calling tonight this particular thing.
Exit velocity on your way out, and form integrity, not
eating of that realm while you're there. There's more, though,

(01:21:59):
and in that space do you think there is really
deeper magic from before the dawn of time? That's what
I want to know. Seven or two nine, five seven?
One's are a three seven? Nobody on the lines if
you want to jump in here, Matthew and Colorado. You
got anything else to add to that or anything else?
So welcome back to the joints. I love to hear it.
What's on your mind, my man? Thanks for hanging over
the break there.

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
Yeah, I wanted to pick up actually where you just
left off. So you said you had other laws. So
after the don eat and don't drink, what what's the
next one you got? You want to kick around some
of those?

Speaker 4 (01:22:33):
Yeah, I got a whole batch of these. Let's see. Okay,
So and these are again I don't want to mention
the term, but there's a there's a new thing that
came out today and it is next level good. Okay,
I'll just leave it at that. But I was kind
of probing these ideas and kind of looking for the
idea of a this cross realm code of conduct. So

(01:22:55):
the forward gaze, obviously we talked about that. So once
the orny home begins, do not look back. The purpose
is to maintain directional intention focuses the bridge and the
mythic evidence of paiutes. The chief loses his wife when
glancing back. The Greeks Orpheus loses urriticy before leaving Hades
a biblical Lot's wife turns into salt. For taking a

(01:23:16):
look back at Sodom's destruction, It's Shinto is a nagy
glimpses is a Nami's corpse, and yomi ceiling the realms apart.
Pardon my actual Japanese is terrible, but the interpretations here
are looking back collapses the liminal state into the previous reality,
an act a kind of collapsing the quantum wave function,
like we talked about. So these are the first two

(01:23:37):
and then we'll I'll get your comment on that, and
we'll go into more of these laws. This, this is wild,
This is wild. The second the banquet of binding eat
me drink meat, right, So do not eat or drink
the food of the other realm. And the purpose is
to avoid that entanglement. Consumption rewrites your essence to match
the host world. And the evidence, of course mythic folklo

(01:23:59):
or otherwise Greek persephone eats of pomegranate seeds, we talked
about that binding her to the underworld. Celtic fairy food
traps mortals in seed. Hey forever she'd a s I
d H. I'm not sure how to say that Japanese
Yomi's meals prevent return to the mortal world, like we
just said, And in my end, Zibalba's food marks the
soul as belonging to the lords of death. And the

(01:24:20):
interpretation there is, of course, food and drink act as
real realm codes something to that degree manna or energy
signatures that change your frequency and anchored you in that
particular space. I guess that does it seem ridiculous that
all these these cultures of the world over really knew
these things and they still not just sort of resurface
in the old tales, but in new fiction as well.

(01:24:43):
I don't know, I don't your take on that. And
I got some more wild laws that kind of maybe
fit into this or maybe not. You guys tell me
that's why we're talking about this.

Speaker 2 (01:24:51):
Yeah, well I already commented the first one, I don't
look back. Didn't make immediate sense to me until you
know the idea of colop seeing the quantum field, and
then it was like, oh, yeah, that totally makes sense.
I didn't comment on the you know, eating and the
last part of what you just described of like anchoring

(01:25:12):
your frequency by consuming the food of the other realm
that you know makes it make sense because you know,
I mean, we could go back to Nikola Tesla, right,
if you want to understand the nature of the universe
energy frequency and vibration, and so the food, whatever it is,

(01:25:36):
even if it's not material food, the food in the
other realm is going to have that frequency of that realm.
And if you take it into your body, even if
it's a spiritual or e theory body, not a physical body,
but maybe it is a physical body. Who knows, right
that is going to put that particular frequency into you,

(01:26:01):
which is going to anchors A good word stabilize, I
would say that frequency. Whereas maybe you're kind of just
barely able to get there. You're kind of in between
realms and you can cross back and forth. But if

(01:26:23):
you take into you, if you ingest too much of
that frequency, maybe it stabilizes fixes anchors you there. So
now that one makes sense. So what's the next one.

Speaker 4 (01:26:36):
Michael, Yeah, and that becomes the thing. Right, So if
you look at those old ways, these old sort of
anchors of reality, anchors are the things we always talk
about on the show, and maybe even merging realms or
traversing between there are these laws in place for a reason.
It seems to be again that ancient metaphysical reason, whatever
that looks like. And the old ways seem ridiculous sometimes

(01:26:56):
and the way you kind of put them, but then again,
framing them in the modern space of what we do
know about science and consciousness and all these other ideas
of realms merging, it becomes well compelling at least right
compelling enough to think about. So three, the Gate protocol
check this out. So the instruction is this pass thresholds

(01:27:19):
without hesitation and never linger in the liminal zone. The
purpose of that is because these thresholds are unstable, stay
in too long risks, trapping you between forms. The evidence
the HOPI emerging from the Sipapoo. I believe this is
how you say that. Sipapu people are warned not to
pause or be pulled back, and Slavic heroes fleeing Baba

(01:27:41):
Yaga's domain must not slow or look back back to
the looking back again. Egyptian in the duot gates must
be passed swiftly or you remain in that sector forever.
And the duot, as we've talked about, which came up
recently in the last six months or so with the
discovery of the structures beneath the pyramids, the douot is
the Egyptian underworld world, which is a toil and trial

(01:28:02):
for who knows how long, all manner of different booby
traps and entities and all kinds of things to well
purify the soul and pass over into well a peaceful space.
But so in this particular case, so these gates would
be the phase shifts. Okay, tarrying less. Let's the boundary
hardened around you and you got to move. I don't know,

(01:28:25):
and that becomes a thing, is it? Think about it?
About it in terms of modern science or even let's
go let's go ridiculous and say modern sort of comic
book level science science fiction, is that if you're in
an unstable space call it what antimatter or something right like,
hanging around is bad. That's bad news because if something

(01:28:47):
goes wrong the containment field of that good game, like
you or you were sort of blasted into oblivion. But
this makes a ton of sense because liminal spaces are
exactly that, they are fleeting. They are changing depending on
the weather, ending on the astrological alignment, depending on maybe
your shamanic space in terms of a hallucinogen or who
knows what's going on. But there you go. So the

(01:29:09):
gate protocol, what's your take there?

Speaker 2 (01:29:14):
My take is excuse me absolutely, And you know, as
a psycho not I have a cross gates and a
number of gates many times, and I can tell you
from first hand experience, Yeah, you know you want to
go through those gates quickly, as quickly as possible. And

(01:29:38):
also you know I won't go into it now, but
we've brought up the gatekeepers before, and think about it,
reminded me. Here's a kind of a good analogy. You
think about the double Switt experiment. Okay, and so it's
either going to become a particle or a wave, and

(01:30:00):
you're in this particular emphtestable Dano second where it's an
undetermined state and you're going to go one way or
the other. That's not a good place to hang out.
You know, that's not good for you to be there.
And it really comes down to choice, which is an

(01:30:25):
important thing about the gates. So you know, when you
approach a gate, or get to a gate, or know
that you're at a gate, what you have to do
is make a choice. And you're either going to go back,
either buy your choice or a gatekeeper sends you back,
or you're going to go through the gate. But that's

(01:30:48):
like I said, and like you were saying, that's not
a place to linger. And if you're gonna go through
the gate, go through the gate, do it, and and
do it boldly, with intent, with will, with volition, because

(01:31:09):
that creates that energy of attention which is almost like
related to the first concept of escape velocity where you
were talking about coming back out, but and it could
be coming back out through the gate, but it could
be going in. And what you need to focus on
is having that willpower and that volition and that attention

(01:31:35):
and to move surely and courageously through that gate. And
probably that word courageously is really important, Michael, because that's
a major thing that the gatekeepers look for, spear. And
so if you're going to attempt to cross a gate,

(01:31:59):
you need to be bold and courageous and sure of yourself,
and you need to not have reticence, you need to
not have uncertainty, you need to not have fear. And
that's just an essential ingredient.

Speaker 4 (01:32:15):
Yeah, And it reminds me of the you know, Caroline,
stay away from the light, that whole you know, near
near death experienced stuff where you know, some people say, no,
the lights are traps. Some say, no way, that's the
way out. You're supposed to go to the light. So
so I do wonder that's the thing, and maybe here
you go. Now, let's let's strap our tinfoil on and
uh meditate deeply together. What if that's the sy op?

(01:32:37):
The sye op is the uncertainty of the moment and
we're not we're supposed to the doddle at the gate
and uh, well, what happens after that? Maybe that's the
biggest signup of all time.

Speaker 2 (01:32:51):
That's Michael, Michael that that's really an interesting thought you
hit on there, that by throwing doubt into people's minds
about whether they should head to the light, go into
the light or not, that would then when they end
up in the situation, cause them to linger, caused them

(01:33:13):
to contemplate, caused them to doubt, and like I said,
caused them to have fear right not good, not good.
So yeah, that that's kind of the ultimate psyop, right
And you know is is the going into the light?
Is that the you know, I guess they call it
a soul trap thing? Can you avoid that? Now? In

(01:33:37):
the if you're not familiar with I don't think you are,
but some some listeners might be. If you're familiar with
the work of Carlos Costaneda the author and Don Juan
and those books. There's one of the books in the series,
and it's probably number four, number five. It's called The
Eagles Gift, and the eagle is what they describe as

(01:34:04):
it's not a real eagle, okay, it's a you know,
a higher dimensional energetic form of light that loosely resembles
the form of an eagle, and it has like a
head and a beak. It's their version, you might say,
of going into the light when you die. Now in

(01:34:26):
the Toll Tech tradition, okay, after you leave this world,
which they do consciously ideally, they choose when to die,
and that's the book the Fire within. Now if but regardless,

(01:34:46):
even if you just have a regular death, you would
see the eagle. Okay. So let's just imagine everything's dark
around and you see this big thing of huge thing
of light that kind of it looks like the body
of an egle, but not you know, clearly there's no
feathers or wings, but body. There's kind of a head

(01:35:07):
and a beak that's brighter white. And what happens is
you get drawn to that front, to that head of
the eagle, to kind of its beak, and it eats you. Okay,
so you go into it, so that it's a very
close parallel to you know, going into the white light

(01:35:28):
and into the tunnel. Okay, Now, for the sorcerers, you
do not want to do that. So the tolltext what
they say is if you do that, it is sort
of like the soul trap or you could say you're
going to go back through the wheel of reincarnation, but
that's not their goal. Their goal is to be free,

(01:35:51):
you know, a planet Earth and of the reincarnation cycle
and stuff like that. And so what they say is
when you pass on and you see that egle, what
you have to do is dart off to the side,
like take a ninety degree angle and use all your
power and all your energy and volition and escape the

(01:36:14):
eagle and dart past the eagle to be free, they say.
And the sorcerers, which just means a man of power.
People get the wrong idea of negative connotations. It just
means a man of knowledge, a man of power. But
the toll Tek sorcers, they would spend a whole bunch

(01:36:34):
of their life doing a number of practices to regain
and to maintain their personal power and their energy to
save up enough power to make that flight to dart
past the eagle to be free. And they're like, if
you sort of piss away and don't maintain your personal power,

(01:36:56):
you can't escape it. It's almost like falling into a
black right, like you got to have you got to
turn on the turbojets. To dart past the eagle to
be free. And so yeah, that's a trippy take on it.

Speaker 4 (01:37:11):
Yeah, definitely, And the U again, I really like the
the actual term exit velocity in this case, and it
does fit into a lot of this, the portals, the gates,
whatever that is. James has got a great comment on
reading a second, but a little Smurtcy Ivy that's standing
over there on YouTube said this, that's like a tray
you walking between the oracles and never ending story. Remember that.
So if you dawdle, and that's in that case you

(01:37:33):
didn't just go, then you get zapped if I remember
that correctly. Is that it is sort of these ideas
of hesitation in that liminal space leads to ruin And
so yeah, like I said, and so basically what we're
doing is we're sort of looking at the ancient magic
okay before humanity and humans recognizing what these things are

(01:37:57):
as they grew up, as we grew up as a
society as a species, all the things, and maybe looking
at what this kind of plays into as we turn
this into deep magic from the Donna time. Are there
sort of these laws or codes that are eternal that
are going to be here long after we're going for

(01:38:17):
the next group of aliens or whatever that show up.
Are we all sort of locked into this space of
deep magic from the dawna time?

Speaker 2 (01:38:30):
Well, you know either that, Michael, or you've got a
heck of a lot of coincidence from all bunch of
different cultures over you know, hundreds and thousands of years,
all mysteriously talking about the exact same sorts of things.
So you know, you choose.

Speaker 4 (01:38:50):
Yet the exactly which, Which is why I talk about
this stuff the way I do. Like I said, I
get how some people could listen to this for like
an hour and be like this dude's off a rocker. Forget,
I'm out, But you recognize what I'm doing. I'm just
noticing some of these patterns and trying to say, hey, okay,
so how come like again, displaced geographically temporarily the world over,

(01:39:11):
we're still telling the same tales over and over and
over again, as if out look, outside of Young and Campbell,
outside of those cycles, we're still telling these same tales
in modern comics. We're still telling the same tales in
modern modern fiction, the never Ending Story, for instance, These
are the types of things that I do wonder if
there's a code that's been written, I don't know, written

(01:39:34):
in the stars, and maybe that's what this looks like.
A couple of quick comments from James. He says, when traveling,
one is always coming and going at the same time,
just depends on perspective, and then also adds also, think
of how many doorways there are in a city versus
a single house or building. Wonder what that does to
the minder spirit. And we've talked about that quite a
lot in the past, that idea of the threshold, right,
the threshold effect where you move through it and your

(01:39:56):
brain kind of has a soft reset, and it's you know,
explains why you go to the kitchen to get your
keys or whatever, and once you get in there, you
forget why you're there. It's very obvious you got up,
took the motion to go over there, but then once
you get there, you're like, why am I here again?
Because that the brain has these soft resets through these gates,
these thresholds, these portals, these doorways, And that's true, that's scientific.

(01:40:19):
Go look that up. If you're like, this guy's off
his rocker again, go look that up. So I do wonder,
I do wonder what fits in this and I don't know,
it's wild and we're still talking about these exact same
things thousands and thousands of years later, all the way
back to the initial the very beginning of a human civilization,
just about out of time. What else you got on
that or anything else? My man?

Speaker 2 (01:40:40):
Well, just just to put a nail in that point.
You know, you have a very precise symbol that you
can find on a cave wall that's you know, six
thousand years old, you know, over in Iraq, and you
can find one that's identical that's two thousand years old

(01:41:02):
in South America, and you can find one that's identical
over in China. And so, like you said, disparate geographical locations,
temporal differences, and you have this exact same geometric symbol.
So you know the idea of whether it's the collective

(01:41:25):
consciousness or that, but where does it come from? Where
do these things come from? They must be in a
sense real or legitimate, and they're just being observed and
known by various people and various cultures in various times.

(01:41:46):
And so tonight's show topic, I think is a similar
thing that I don't think you can just explain it
all the way. It's similar to UFOs, where you have,
you know, thousands of years of reports of the stuff
all around the world, and you're just going to say, oh,
everybody's making up the same thing.

Speaker 4 (01:42:05):
Yeah, exactly, exactly, which is a game which brings me
back every night because I, like I said, I love
I love Carl Jung, I love Joseph Campbell, I love
those ideas of the cyclical storytelling based on the human experience.
But beyond that, beyond that, I think there's quite a
bit more that we have yet to discover conceptually, and
it is what brings me back every name the fire stuff. Brother.

(01:42:27):
We got Jen on the line. We'll go to her
after the break. If you got more of you're welcome
to hang as usual and thank you again. Welcome back.
It's been a minute and you've been moving and doing
some stuff. I'm glad you're in a good space and
able to share some ideas with us because you're always
lighted on fire. I appreciate you very much. You tell
me if you got a dip. If not, we'll take
a break, come back, talk to Jen, and then if
you've got more, love to hear it.

Speaker 2 (01:42:47):
Okay, thanks for having me on buddy, I'll hang for
a bit.

Speaker 4 (01:42:49):
Stay there. You are the best. You know me a love.
That's Matthew in Colorado, Troubleminds dot Org, force sas friends.
Scroll down a little bit. It's alphabetical. It's under m
Matthew Colorado. Go check out his book and like I said,
there might be a coupon code still there. That's a
free check that out. We're talking. I'm calling this the
cross Realm Code of Conduct, exit, velocity and forem integrity.

(01:43:10):
Do you think at the most ancient metaphysical level there
is a structure to ancient magic. That's what's all my
mind tonight. You're right back. More Trouble Minds on the way.
We got Jen in Missouri and your calls as well.
Don't go anywhere. Welcome back to Trouble Minds. I your host,

(01:43:45):
Michael Strange. We're streaming on YouTube, rumbo x, Twitch and Kick.
We are broadcasting live on a Trouble Minds radio network
that's KUAP Digital Broadcasting and of course eighty eight point
four FM Awkward New Zealand on the Underground Media Network. Tonight,
I'm calling this the Cross Realm Code of condu, exit,
Velocity and forem integrity to start, eat me, drink me,
and of course don't look back as you're moving through

(01:44:06):
the threshold. What does that mean? It seems very ancient
magic from the dawna time. As I like to say
back to it is it is one of the things
that like hooked me, literally hooked me and has stuck
with me for my entire life. When I was reading
Lying the Witch and the Wardrobe and C. S. Lewis
did that perfect Asland scene. Right, not to spoil the thing,
you guys have probably seen the movie or whatever, but right,

(01:44:28):
so they so there's the there's there's the trade off.
So Aslan actually volunteers himself as a sacrifice to free Edmund,
and Edmund who is the human child in Narnia who
went a foul of some some other old law, right,
and and the Queen of Narnia took it and said, okay,
I finally got Aslin. I'll take it. You can take

(01:44:49):
take the trader back, which is Edmund, and I'll I
get the slaughter Aslan. Except Aslan knew of an older
law that if you give yourself up for somebody who's
actually in a and that you will return in Aslan return,
and there's very very you know, Christian symbolism there as well,
going back to Jesus and the resurrection and that type

(01:45:10):
of thing which was intentional. C. S. Lewis was a
devout Catholic as far as we know, and talked about
a lot of that stuff and anyway, deep er magic
from before the dawn of times. It just burned into
my brain since I was like ten, and it's never
left and here I am old and still talking about

(01:45:30):
this stuff. Love to hear your thoughts on this. Do
you think there is actually a metaphysical batch of laws
from before the dawn of time itself that will be
eternal and then we're still trying to reconcile as human people.
That's what we're talking about tonight. Seven oh two nine
five seven one zero three seven. Click the discord link
at Troubledminds dot org will put you on the show.

(01:45:51):
Hang tip, Matthew, you get back to you momentarily. Jen
been waiting a minute as well. Jen in Missouri the
Urcane Observer. What's going on? You are on Troubled Minds?
How are you Tonight's and what's on your mind?

Speaker 1 (01:46:00):
Go right in?

Speaker 12 (01:46:02):
Hey, Mike, you hear me.

Speaker 4 (01:46:04):
All right, madain clue, you sound great. Welcome to the joint.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:46:10):
What do you get.

Speaker 12 (01:46:12):
As usual? I think that first off, I mean I
love these kind of conversations obviously, but just starting offer
off the butt the way that I kind of the
way I've interpreted is, you know, the world of the dead,
the dream realm, the realm of the imagination, and this

(01:46:38):
unseen realm often referenced that some other kind of species
that seems to be as real as us is able
to access that is all the same realm. So you
have the dream escape, the death escape, where you might
encounter loved ones, and you might encounter what would have

(01:46:58):
perceived as imagine beings that that is all in the
same realm. Now, what's interesting about that is even right there,
the idea that you have this species that has access
to that realm, and we refer to them as being
the other kind, some other type of being that has
access to that realm and has mastery over that realm,

(01:47:21):
and the human species has access to that realm. I mean,
the human species works in that realm in the dream state.
A good portion of their life constantly in the dream state,
and the thinking and planning, and everything that they do.

(01:47:42):
They live equally there. All of the creatures do that.
They all, well, not all of them, but a lot
of them do exist in the thinking, sleeping state. That
that is a real place cannot be underestimated. That it
is an actual physical location of some kind that has

(01:48:05):
as much effect on your reality here in what appears
to be the wacking existing state as it does there.
What you do there affects what you do here, and
vice versa. That they are linked. So even the concept
that there are some alien species that has rulership over

(01:48:25):
that realm is just mastery of that realm. The idea
that the dead have a great deal of influence, or
that even an ancient texts of different civilizations that have
talked about understanding the realm of the dead have done
it through trance like states and near death experience. That

(01:48:49):
is how they have gained that knowledge. They have spread
to others, and it's something accessible, yes, to all. But
once you kind of take that first, there is no
going back from knowing what you didn't know. And that's
not something that's just reliant upon that realm in the

(01:49:11):
physical realm that we live in, which is it is
a mystical realm because we and it's ironic as we
are living day to day and it seems very mundane,
but there is something symbolic about all of it. You
could almost take the same symbology that you would have
when interpreting dreams and apply it to the waking life

(01:49:32):
to try to get a visual of what actually is
happening if you were interested in such a thing, that
there is a similarity between the two, that they are
not really that different, and that one will affect the
other the more you act upon it. I think that
you know, it's it's the whole. The eating or drinking

(01:49:55):
is it's a ritual. Falls as myself is an example
of that. When you talk about the you know, taking
of the Eucharist or anything of the kind. That's not
just in Christianity. That's an ancient belief system. That anything
to eat or drink or anything involving actively participation. Active

(01:50:21):
participation is an acceptance of and sometimes it is unknowing,
unknowing initiation. And as you're going through life, people are
constantly going through that in different cycles of the phases
of their life and choices they make. They may seem

(01:50:44):
like a simple choice, a business transaction, a simple change
of location, maybe you're moving or doing this or that.
There's an activity, there's an acceptance that you are going
to do something different than what you've done before. It
takes a certain amount of baldness. Fear is a natural

(01:51:04):
response to something doing anything that you have never done before.
So whether you are, you know, fifty years old and
choosing to do something you haven't done before, it is
an initiation into something entirely different. Same as if you

(01:51:29):
are five years old and realizing you're no longer a
baby and kind of moving through life that way. But
once that's realized, once that is known, there's no going
back the forbidden fruit that you are no longer what
you were that now it will become something different now

(01:51:50):
that you know the difference that this is different than
where I was. And as far as you know, the
fear of you know, do not go into light or
go into the light any choice, as it has a risk,
and ultimately you know, sometimes you do have a choice.

(01:52:14):
I mean, it seems that you would always have a choice,
but sometimes that is not the case. Sometimes, as life is,
you don't have a choice. Over time, you can't and
one of the biggest things is that individuals do attempt
to either roll back time, or especially with youth, they
want to fest forward time and they want to go

(01:52:37):
to places they've never gone before or that they have
been before. But it will not be It's hard to anticipate.
It will always be different, and that's just the nature
of it. But the actual initiation and ritual of partaking
of once you partake of this fruit or this drink,

(01:53:00):
it almost is as if it solidifies that it is real,
and the realization of that carries all of the weight
of what that actually insinuates, and it's something unknown to
the initiated. They don't know, and that is why it
is an initiation and why it is a new beginning,

(01:53:22):
and there is no going back once you do that,
and that could do it. When it is discussion about
in the realm where you think it's whether it's purely
psychological or not. That is where the whole world begins,
is psychologically. It begins in the mind and how you're
interpreting the physical reality that is already in existence. But

(01:53:45):
they are all in a sort of advance that it
is aware of you as much as you are somewhat
aware of it. And so I think that just in
existing a lot, there is an intelligence that is moving,
and there is an unconscious intelligence that we are all

(01:54:09):
existing with, and that doesn't begin or end anywhere. So
as you're going through the time of life, there is
no end or beginning necessarily in the process. It's continual
evolving of how you're going to interpret what comes at you.

(01:54:29):
So it's a constant Whenever you may spend four years
in a sort of rut and you're there because yeah,
the situation is either it's chosen that there's some kind
of sort of hanging around waiting to see what will happen,
or trying to through that rut see the world in

(01:54:53):
a different way, but or defending where you are already,
or just the concept of you know, entering into completion
and a world completes, your cycle of your life becomes complete,
and then you have to begin again, not knowing anything

(01:55:15):
that will be applicable to what you're going to do soon.
And the reason that I think that is relevant is
because when you're considering the idea of death or the
unseen realm, as far as how would you interact with
it or does it have any kind of significance. A

(01:55:37):
bystander perspective would be to say very importantly that they
are all that's the same realm. So what you could
imagine about death is what you could imagine why you
are alive and what you may encounter there. You must
boldly go forth the same way that you wouldn't lie,

(01:55:58):
regardless and trusting only in that you have the knowledge
already to go through it, or you have the seed
of curiosity enough and the foolishness enough to do it. Anyhow.
It's really it's very complicated because I do not think

(01:56:19):
that this is always about a choice. Many times it is,
but on a lot of occasions it is not. Death
is not necessarily circumstantially, it's not always a choice, but
you are thrust forward into that circumstance. In the state
of mind that a person is in when they are

(01:56:40):
going to bed at night, it's not even a choice.
In that occasion. They are respond they have control over
the car, since they have control over the horse that
they are riding, that is their life. At the same time,
you have to be brave enough to encounter what is
going to come your way, and every day, whether we

(01:57:02):
admit it or not, we do not know what is
going to be around the corner at all, and their
unforeseen circumstances and their unforeseen events that will occur. What
is the point and why is it happening? Goes back
to many different faiths and religions that talk about this

(01:57:24):
the sacrifice. The one thing that I come back to
over and over again is Zoroustrianism discusses very frequently about
the sacrifice, that the human being is almost like it's
a vessel for the intelligence of something that is immortal.
Amines have become fixated on immortality in a way and
it has blinded them to their true purpose. Their true

(01:57:46):
purpose is to throw caution to the wind, to live
life as they should, to keep the creature alive, but
to fulfill a mission. And the mission is something that
is a greater wisdom than what you have. So you
have to rely up on faith and a boldness that
the path is guiding you in the right direction, but
that ultimately you will be a sacrifice, that the process

(01:58:08):
of your life and everything that you're doing it will
be cast to the wind, but something will continue. It
won't be you, but something will continue and is an
element of what you were that carried it that was
essential or it would never have happened, or it won't happen.

(01:58:28):
And so I think it's just the and that's been
many religions, no matter what religion you look at, the Waldens's,
the Albaigins is, the Hinduism, Buddhism, it wouldn't matter where
you go with it. Even the concept is the same
that it's not always just the only thing that kind
of deviates from that with these some realms of Satanism

(01:58:50):
where they believe that is for the now, right now,
and you can see that in Egyptian religion in some
aspects of it, there were certain deities that believe that
as well well, and that gives a lot of energy
to the ghost the concept that you will not merely
be a sacrifice, but some part of you that suffered

(01:59:13):
and lived through this, that it should survive, that it
should be respected and valued, and in some cases when
a person has given a lot, or when they didn't
feel like they gave enough, that is what remains. So
it's a very interesting concept because it also links into
the idea that there are no clean cut there are

(01:59:36):
certain rules, but that is constant being it's being influenced
by how people interact with this realm and the rules
they are in place have been established by the past,
and people are not different than they were. You know,
there's nothing new, pardon me, with humanity. This is the
same cycles that of the natural flow of how things

(01:59:58):
will go. It depends on how far you are willing,
how brave or how afraid or whatever the case of
what limits or extends that. In addition to that, there
are you know, mistakes that are made.

Speaker 9 (02:00:17):
It's just.

Speaker 12 (02:00:19):
It's a personal journey, for sure, you know, that personal
journey of existing. But ultimately those realms are the same,
I think. And the partaking of food and drink is initiation.
That's why you do not But some do partake in initiation,
and they will eat and drink of that depending on

(02:00:40):
what it is or what moment of their life. But
at least they were given the choice, and some are
not given the choice in that, depending on what the
circumstances are.

Speaker 4 (02:00:48):
Yeah, well said. So I've got a question for you.
So regarding conceptually, of course, I mean, nobody really knows
all the things about all the things. But do you
think through scholarship and intuition and years and years of
the oral tradition and all of the things we're still
kind of taking into account as part of not just
this conversation, but the larger aspect of it. You think
it's possible to sort of find what those metaphysical laws are,

(02:01:12):
the deeper magic before the dawn of time? Do you
think that is a possible thing for humans or is
it supposed to be ambiguous in some capacity because it
seems like we're on to some of them, but you know,
kind of the Ten Commandments type of thing, but metaphysical
and deeper and all the way back to the very beginning.
You think it's possible to kind of sniff these out
in some capacity or is it just a fool's.

Speaker 12 (02:01:33):
Errand yes, sadly, I think that it is able to
be sniffed out. I mean, I think in a way
you can prepare for you know, what you think may
happen and not do that, or you may be told
by someone who is very wise that you know, this

(02:01:54):
is what you should do and you should adhere to that.
It depends on the circumstances, but ultimately is lept up
to the participant. That we are all participants. I mean,
the you could read as much information that's very it's
helped to stand your circumstances. The ultimate truth you never

(02:02:17):
will know unless you do know. But if you have trust,
I would not trust just books. But you look close enough,
just around your in general environment of humans existing around you,

(02:02:37):
you will see these metaphors pop up over and over again.
So the references to the text and as much information
as you may gather, it should be a reference to
the real world and being able to see in action
that being a truth or not, And that needs to

(02:02:59):
be the guidance. People do need to trust their their experience.
They need to trust and what they are seeing, but
they also need to have hope and faith that there's
a possibility of something else, because many times those tech
talk about that. So I just I think it very
much depends, you know, on hopefully trusting. It's difficult to

(02:03:24):
say that people could trust their own guidance. Some people
are very misguided, you know, and who's to say you
know which way is the right way or not. But
ultimately it's something that you will others will play they
will play witness to that. So if you were correct
or if you were wrong, and then worst of all

(02:03:45):
is being interpreted by those who were behind you, because
those who were before you are already gone, so it's
very difficult to think of like did they make the
right choice. But as an observer effect, I do not
think it's enough just to rely upon the books that

(02:04:06):
you know and the it's like it's lost the actual wisdom.
You have to actually look around you, and that's something
in our world right now that it is lacking. It's
just actually paying attention and learning from the wisdom of
those who were in front of you, literally not in

(02:04:26):
a book, not in a movie, but literally around you
will be the most effective, especially since they're experiencing similar things.
But then I think that the realm of the reaches
of your heart and your drive of what you know

(02:04:47):
that you are should carry. Sometimes there will be nothing
that will encourage you. There will be people that will
try to tear you down, that will be everything against you,
and you must defend. You believe in some extent even
at everything around you, and that that happens as well.
I mean, there will be times where everything that you

(02:05:10):
trust and everything that you know is and you're defending
against it because you have to be guided by some
type of compass within yourself, and you have to be
brave enough that you don't just fall into doing what
makes other people happy. So and that sometimes is a

(02:05:32):
very lonely path. But if you can be true to yourself,
hopefully you will have no regret, or at least not
a regret you cannot live with.

Speaker 4 (02:05:43):
Well said uh to book in what you what you
did there? I thought, I want to say, Marcus, really
is I'm trying to find it as you're talking. But
knowledge without action is meaningless. I don't know who said that.
There was maybe Ark, Twayne or whatever, but I mean, yeah,
yea like you can. You can read your guts out
and do nothing about it, and you're still going to

(02:06:04):
be naval gazing at the end. There has to be
action as part of anything or else. What are you
doing here? We are You're the best. I appreciate you
staying up play with us and chiming in and lighting on.
I appreciate the call. You were the best. Be's Jenny
Missouri the Arcane Observer. You know where to find our
Troubleminds Dot order Forward Side Friends. Just scroll down a
little bit to It is alphabetical and it says follow
Jennifer here. Just click that and bingo it'll take you

(02:06:27):
to our YouTube channel. Order the link tree. I'm not
sure what's there. Let's click it find out. I'll share
in the uh the actual uh the break here. But look, look,
I don't know this is the whole point of this stuff.
And very well said all of that. What does it
mean to you as usual?

Speaker 2 (02:06:44):
Right?

Speaker 4 (02:06:44):
If we can't talk about reality tunnels and different ways
to look at the world. Our different upbringings are different places,
our different cultures are different everything, what are we doing?
And then and then not respect each other as part
of it? Matthew got about a minute. If you got
a thing to add. I'm not sure if you were
a uh there or away or whatever, but what you
got on that? And then we'll got to Enoch I

(02:07:04):
see your next buddy. Go ahead, go ahead, matt Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:07:08):
I just fantastic call by by Jen. And you know,
I do think I related to what she said about
sort of the dreaming and the realm of imagination and
inner faces sort of all being one place and one thing.
And I think that you know, not to be repetitive,

(02:07:33):
but you know it's a matter of frequency, and so
you could consider them props non physical realms. And when
we adjust our frequency, we adjust between those. But also
in another way, they're just kind of human words. They're
analytical frameworks we used to describe kind of the different

(02:07:56):
frequencies and realms. But yeah, great call from Jen.

Speaker 4 (02:08:01):
Perty usual Mattsow adds it, which is the truth that
Jen sets it on fire and spins it off the
cliff in the best way. Yeah, fantastic stuff. A lot
of ways to look at this, and once again I
challenge you, each and every one of you to consider
through your daily life different perspectives. By the moment, maybe

(02:08:24):
this is the way seven two one zero three seven
clip to discord, link at Troubleminds dot or organ be
rap back more coming up, Enoch, put your hand up,
get your ass back in here. More for Matthew and
Colorado and your calls as well. Don't go anywhere, welcome back.

(02:08:57):
What's your troubled minds? All the things, all the plays,
all the ideas. I don't know, Like, like I said,
you be the judge. We'll let history be the judge.
I'm not really concerned about, you know, clout or I
don't know like that. It's it's weird how you can
kind of spin that stuff out of out of your

(02:09:18):
your ego space by you know, streaming for a year
or two with nobody listening. It's like, okay, all right,
I was gonna talk We're gonna talk about all the
things we're gonna talk about, right like and then and
then suddenly all y'all are here, and it's like, when
did this act? This is amazing? This was always the dream,
by the way, to talk about wild ideas with regular

(02:09:40):
people and consider them in these spatial ways and these
different reality tonnel aspects. And yeah, we're blessed. We're blessed
for so many smart, amazing people that are part of this,
this group and this famine. It been agains supporters of
the show for a long time. I can't reiterate this enough.
Troubledminds dot org forward slash friends, please please please look,

(02:10:03):
if you appreciate the time and the effort that goes
into this. Look, it's not just myself from all the
amazing people that sit and wait and you know, put
their hand up and wait for twenty to thirty minutes
or forty minutes and then call in and talk about
these ideas like it takes some notes. And I mean, look,

(02:10:23):
let's appreciate everybody. Let's go follow everybody, make accounts where
you don't accounts, and go follow troubleminds dot org forward
size friends. So it's always been about It's always been
about making friends and talking about wild ideas that nobody
wants to talk about, and guess what here we are.
Dream has been achieved. I appreciate the call Jen give
jennifollow troubleminds dot org forts my friends follow Jennifer, click

(02:10:45):
that link and check it out and look me as
for me, you know me, I don't profess to know anything.
I'm the Aristotle version of the twenty twenty five not
as smart as that guy, but at least enough to
recognize that the only thing I do know is that
I don't know anything. And that's the point. And so
if you can't sort of break down those reality structures

(02:11:07):
of dog miscycles I'm always talking about and consider things
that are off the beaten path, I think we're doing
ourselves at disservice in terms of this larger context, in
terms of what it means to be human in twenty
twenty five and the AI space as this accelerates. Love
to hear what you guys think about it. Seven oh
two nine one zero three seven Click the discording of
Troublelines dot Org. Matthew and Colorado. If you've got anything

(02:11:28):
on any of that's love to hear it. We got
a collar on the phone line. We'll go to in
a moment here as well, and welcome back to the joint.
How you feeling staying up late with us, mister Colorado?
What's what's going on? What you got for us?

Speaker 12 (02:11:41):
Well?

Speaker 2 (02:11:41):
I had a late name, so actually I'm unusually awake
and nice. Yeah, I slept in and I woke up
at like eight seventeen or something PM, and I'm like, oh,
it's dark outside. Is it morning? Is it night? I
don't know? Is it You have that sometimes? Where am I?

(02:12:07):
You know, you ever wake up? You'd like trava and
you go around in a motel or something like that
and you wake up in a bed and you don't
know where you are, what city you're in.

Speaker 4 (02:12:16):
No, but I've done that at work, which I which
I kind of did today. The people I work with
are so cool and chill, by the way, and I
am a sort of sometimes waiting. It's like an on
demand sort of thing, so they're like just stand by,
so I was near the house today and around lunchtime,
They're like, I just just stand by and we'll get

(02:12:38):
back to you. So I literally came into the house,
I'd already eaten, and I just took a nap on
the clock, on the clock with the phone right there.
If it went bing, then I would have woke up
and done. But nothing happened to the entire second half
of the day. I had a nice nap. I feel good,
is my point. I feel good. Okay. Anyway, lots of

(02:12:59):
things in play here, lots of wild ideas. I'm going
to ask you the same question I asked Jen. Do
you think that through scholarship and intuition will eventually be
able to sniff out the deep magic from the dawna time?
Like whatever that metaphysical framework is of C. S. Lewis,
or these ideas, these sort of structural mythologies and folklore

(02:13:20):
that we've been talking about tonight, like don't eat of
the other realm, don't look back as you're passing through
these thresholds, don't dawdle through the portal. And I do
have two more sort of new you know, quote laws
as part of it, that are built and based on
this folklore hierarchy of ideas. So I don't know. Do
you think that eventually it is possible to kind of
sniff out that metaphysical aspect of deep magic from the

(02:13:44):
dawna time?

Speaker 2 (02:13:47):
The quick bottom line answer is yes, I'm gonna minimize
scholarship a bit. I think, like Jen was saying, depending
on who you're a bitilling yourself of. If they were
wise and they did the intuition or perhaps the meditation

(02:14:10):
or the inner journeys or processes to discover those laws,
then scholarship, you know, can be valuable from that. And
whether that's you know, from writing or something like that,
or it could be from from somebody you you know, know,

(02:14:33):
have the privilege of in person somebody that's wise and
has had the experiences. And I think I'm with Jen
on this. I believe that she emphasized the point and
I've done it many times in shows and my calls
that she mentioned knowing and my mentor said, you know,

(02:14:58):
sometimes there's times that you know that you know, and
a big part of knowing, and what I emphasize is
personal experience, because if you are, let's say, listening to
a podcast or you are reading in a book, whether

(02:15:18):
it's you know, written a thousand years ago or you know,
ten years ago or last year, you're taking on somebody
else's thoughts, somebody else's perceptions, their interpretations. It's going through
their cultural programming. It's it is what it is. But

(02:15:41):
you have to understand that's what it is. And there's
you know, pros and cons to that. But on the
con side is that it's back to Terence McKennon, Entertain
any idea but believe in nothing, and he was you know,

(02:16:03):
basically quoting Aristotle. And so the thing is, I'm pretty
much a downer on belief. My book, you know, Escaped
the Matrix and Explore Reality says that belief first of all,
that's that's the thing that will get you. That's how
propaganda works, that's how mind control works. You're believing things

(02:16:26):
that you've been fed, that have been fed into your brain,
whether it's programming from your parents, or programming from schools,
or programming from religion or mass media or whatever. The
way that you're subjected to mind control is you believe it. Okay, Now,

(02:16:47):
contrary to that, contradicting that is something you've actually had
personal experience of. Now, when you've had personal experience of something.
The power of that is you no longer have to
believe it. Okay. So if I read a book and
somebody's telling some story of something that happened, maybe they're

(02:17:09):
making it up. I don't know, maybe it's true. I
don't know, right, And that's the thing that's the agnostic philosophy.
I don't know. I'm not going to make up my mind.
But when it's happened to you personally, then you know
because you experienced it. And so when you get that knowing,

(02:17:32):
that's what I call like first hand knowledge. Okay. Now,
if somebody gets that first hand knowledge and they write
it down, okay, so we're talking about this scholarly aspect
of quite then and you read it, you avail yourself
of it, you study something, Okay, you're getting secondhand knowledge.

(02:17:55):
You didn't discover it. You didn't know. Is this one
of those laws? Is is this how things work with
these different realms? It's what somebody else said. Maybe it's true,
maybe it's not true. You don't know. Now if you have,
like I'll say, you know I said earlier, I've had
experiences with different realms, and I'm a psychonaud and an

(02:18:19):
active dreamer as you know, and astro travel and etheroric
travel and out of body experiences. So on those things.
I have my own first person, firsthand experiences that I
think leads to, let me say, reliable knowledge. Now, if
I read a book about out of body experiences or

(02:18:42):
lucid dreaming or something like that, that's secondhand knowledge. And
for me, you know, I'm an old fart like you.
I think you're a year younger than me. Thanks you,
old fortunite, old first night and so and so. If
I read one of those books and it aligns with

(02:19:03):
my experience, what happens is it confirms it and I go, oh, yeah,
that's that's exactly what I've experienced. That's that's what I know. Now.
The second part of what you said, besides the scholarly
is the intuition. And you could add to that is
it is basically what I'm doing. It is the intuition, Yes,

(02:19:24):
And intuition is a very powerful capability of human beings,
and it's why we'll always beat the credit out of
artificial intelligence. I always beat them in debates. But you know,
we have other attributes besides intelligence, right, Besides cognition, we
have heart, we have intuition, we have gut uh and

(02:19:49):
instincts and intuition and and and these further capabilities, and
then we utilize techniques like meditation, techniques like dreaming, like drumming,
like dance, like trans dance, like all the different spiritual

(02:20:10):
practices that allow us to sort of go within, to
tap within, to connect to something like cosmic consciousness or
the unified consciousness of all. Well, in that unified consciousness
of all, of course, Michael lies these laws or rules

(02:20:35):
or principles, or you could call them the spiritual mathematics
of how these things operate. And so if somebody is
able to access those, to journey to those through any
of those processes, then yes, they can discover those, they
can know those. And so that's probably my answer to

(02:20:59):
the question is yes, and we can do them. We
you know, I've come full circle. I started with the
end of the the end of the answer, the short
answer yes, And that's why I think the answer is yes.

Speaker 4 (02:21:12):
And some synchronicity is do come full circle, because sometimes
you book in things unintentionally. Sometimes these ideas kind of circulate,
whether you recognize them or not. Your intuition plucks them
out of the air. Let's begin, No, let's end where
we began, and let's go to our good buddy James.
James in Michigan, Selsea to Paranormal. What's up, brother, Welcome

(02:21:35):
to the joint. Thanks for jumping through all the hoops
and being part of the whole thing. I know it's frustrating.
I know you're mad, but welcome back. And lots of
ways to take this. As you know, all your is
my friend. Thanks for bearing with the tech issues. We'll
get it worked out, I promise you. Okay, my ninety
five percent certainty is now down to like eighty five percent. Well,

(02:21:56):
we're gonna have to figure this out. Welcome to the joint, brother,
Go ahead. What you got?

Speaker 11 (02:22:00):
Oh well, just great calls from everyone. I was glad
to hear Jen. I have her as a co host
on my show for a reason. So but yeah, great
topic and the thing that I'm coming back to a
couple of different things tonight based on everyone's conversations, here
is the idea of that traveling, of that not looking back,

(02:22:25):
that is sort of that part to me is almost
even more important than maybe the the where you're going
or where you're coming from, because as I said in
the chapter, it all depends on your perspective or what
you're thinking about when you're going. Whenever you're traveling, you

(02:22:47):
are technically if you go from what point A to
point B, you are leaving one place going to another,
and both places. You can sort of put that into
the well you're coming and going. I'm having a hard
time with words tonight, coming and going at the same time,
no matter what you're doing, no matter where you're going.

(02:23:08):
So and that's with again, that's with streshold. I find
that whole aspect of this fascinating, with the gates and
everything and not stopping, because again you're you're leaving one place,
you're going into another. But then if you sit, you're
coming back out, then you're still leaving one place and

(02:23:28):
going to another. And so I really find that to
be amazing an idea because then that does make you
wonder if you're going back to the place that you
came from, but you look back, is that I don't know,
It's almost like, why shouldn't you be able to look back?

(02:23:52):
Shouldn't you be able to to still keep a record
of what that place was? But if it is some
other level of reality, something imaginary, something spiritual, something in
the dream realm, something to another, some kind of portal.
There's just so many accounts of people when they go

(02:24:15):
to places they're they're walking through. Let's say this has
been a mind all night, and it's from earlier tonight,
when I've found so many accounts, and I'm sure people
here have heard these report too, of people that are
walking through forests or nature areas or just anywhere really
and all of a sudden, the air feels different in

(02:24:37):
a place, the just the energy feels different in the place,
and sometimes they even see something that does not look normal,
as far as an entity or a building that wasn't
there before as far as they knew, and and they
have to they have to retreat. They have to go

(02:24:57):
back the way they came usually or also as they
go forward, but they just go as fast as they can.
But a lot of times they end up retreating because
they're so creaked out by this weird feeling, and so
sometimes they look back. Sometimes they don't, but when they
look back, so often there's it's they get a sense

(02:25:19):
of this feeling of fear intensifying as they're sort of
trying to get away from this area, which normally before
if it's an area they've been to before, wasn't there
a problem, But now for whatever reason it is. So Yeah,
all this is really fascinating. I'm really wondering now about
just knowing things and experiencing things. I've been thinking about

(02:25:42):
that too. With and once you know something and it's
something that you experience again, going back with what Matthew
was saying, it's very hard to to not know that
thing in a way unless you find information that really
does prove uh that maybe you experienced something different than

(02:26:09):
you thought you experienced. But uh, until that happens, you
know that thing the way that that that experience happened.
You know, you know as well as you can. And
I guess there's always going to be a sort of
a percentage of what you actually know versus what you don't.
And I think it's a maybe the intuition factors in

(02:26:29):
there as far as knowing how much of that percentage
you are aware of anyway, that's uh, that's that's the start.
I rambled for the night, and maybe if anything else
to say, then maybe I'll think of more things after that.

Speaker 4 (02:26:42):
You were the best no, I think so part of
what you touched on is is in the rite up
by the way, guys, go check the right up out.
It's it's pretty good. And I'll read the final two laws.
So if we're sniffing out these laws, these metaphysical laws,
deep magic from the dawn of time, uh, maybe maybe
we're onto something. Maybe this is sort of this that's
abstrative reality quantified into words that humans can understand. You

(02:27:04):
get what I'm saying. And like I said, I'm not
I'm not trying to start a cult or you know.
Like I said, though, James, your robes are still in
the mail, so let me know when they get there
if the color in the fitting is right, I definitely
want I'm just kidding there, but you get what I mean.
Like outside of those sort of control again, control mechanisms,
dogma cycles I'm always talking about, and that goes for everything.

(02:27:26):
It's politics, it's everything. Like I think, I think when
I say dogma cycles, I think people look, I don't.
I can't. I can't know what you're thinking. The words
I'm saying, I'm trying to convey them as much as possible,
but the as well as possible. But when When I
say dogma cycle, I don't necessarily mean religious faith. I

(02:27:49):
mean politics. I mean all the things that were sort
of locked into as being human that is false, that
is literally as false as false gets from manipulation. So
just as a reminder there on those, I'm not crapping
on anybody. Like I said, I've done this for seven
plus years, gone very hard to not intentionally crap on

(02:28:11):
people because I do understand some of this stuff. Is
you got a tiptoe when you talk about these ideas,
because people do get mad. Back to the question for you, James,
is the same question I asked a jan same question
I asked to Matthew. Do you think with that intuition aspect,
and do you think with the scholarship or even dare
we suggest artificial intelligence as this quickening begins. Do you

(02:28:34):
think that we're going to be able to at some
point actually find these laws, the the deep magic from
the dawn of time codified in words that people understand,
or do you think that's just a fool's errand and
a dream of troubled mind style dreamers.

Speaker 11 (02:28:54):
I think it depends because scholarship. To me, I wonder,
now are we talking reports from people throughout time of
their experiences, because then I would say, if you add
that all together, like Matthew was saying as well, I agree,
you add that all together with the experiences that we have,
those of us that have an almost experiences, let's say,

(02:29:16):
then that does really make you wonder what is going on?
I know it's to me now, I'm at the point
where I know there are things that are anomalous that
I can't explain. I can't tell anyone else that. You
have to believe me on that. You have to accept that.

Speaker 1 (02:29:33):
I know this.

Speaker 11 (02:29:35):
I know this for myself because I've had way too
many experiences like that. And so I think maybe depending
on what I guess, what scholarship or what we read
or taken, I don't think it can ever completely lead
us to those knowing those things. I think. I mean,

(02:29:56):
look at how often you hear about that. People say, well,
if there was really anything out there as far as ghosts,
aliens or cryptids or UFOs or whatever, if there is,
if there is any of that out there, then then
we would have solid proof, you know. And I go
back to this over and over again because that idea,
to me, in itself, is impossible because everyone will always

(02:30:20):
have different ideas of what that proof should be, and
and everyone's ideas a lot of times they're usually changing
in different ways. So I think it's an impossibility there.

Speaker 1 (02:30:32):
To get proved.

Speaker 11 (02:30:33):
And I wonder if that means it's an impossibility to
know or to to figure out all these rules of
how things work as well because of that, because there's
always change and always new information coming in.

Speaker 4 (02:30:50):
Yeah, well said and all that. By the way, you
sound pretty good on the phone. You sound pretty good
on the phone. Volume is great, to delivery is great,
to the James is great, to the James is great. Look,
I know again, apologies. I thought we had it fixed
ninety five percent, but now we have to take a
step back and realize what the hell's happening. If I'll

(02:31:12):
ask you some questions again offline and we'll figure this out.
Trust me, we're going to figure this out. It sucks
that you kind of got to again, did the work,
went through the write up, got the ideas, made some notes,
and we're ready to go, and then we just couldn't
get you on.

Speaker 1 (02:31:25):
Man.

Speaker 4 (02:31:25):
It was a thanks for tough and throat and getting
back and again calling on the phone line like I said,
you sound great, and there's well said all that stuff.
I think it's important to recognize once again what we
know and what we don't know, and also that it's
always changing, and that becomes really the part of the
important part of being human to me. And that's why, Look,

(02:31:47):
that's why I'm back here, you know, every other night
or whatever, talking about ideas that I probably have no
business talking about. Right, I'm not qualified to talk about
anything others that I'm just a human person, just like
all the rest of you guys. So does that automatically
qualify me? I think so. Right, So this is my
world too, And if I don't like stick the flag

(02:32:09):
in and say, hey, my world too, then everybody just
wants to say shut up, Mike. Nobody cares, not you guys,
but you know what I mean, Like as an individual,
that's what we're dealing with. But yeah, again, thanks for
jumping through the Who's Brother and we'll get it fixed
up and you are the best, as you know, you
got a final thought for us, and then we'll go
to Matthew and wrap this up.

Speaker 11 (02:32:29):
I just also think that we need to accept that
others may know different things. And again, this is another
thing I always commit to is this stigma against anyone
that has had an experience that other people don't think
it's possible. What if you're wrong? What if it is possible?
Not you, obviously, not anyone here, but just in general,

(02:32:50):
what if you're wrong about that? What if it is possible?
Then you're not only sort of cheating yourself out of
maybe some new information, but you're sort of putting yourself
another person down in a way for not thinking, maybe
this could happen, and there could be something to this,
even if it's not exactly what it seems like it is,

(02:33:13):
it's something that's someone experienced.

Speaker 4 (02:33:17):
Well said. Well said as usual, like again, exercise detaching,
exercise recognizing that what you thought yesterday might not be
what you think tomorrow. Recognize there are people out there
that might know a thing or two that you don't,
and that's reciprocal, of course, it means you know a

(02:33:38):
thing or two that they may not. You see very
Yin and Yang. I think this entire show has literally
been Yin and Yang, including of course James. The sort
of walking out of that space and being entangled with
it anyway and trying to map it. That's in the
rite up, by the way, kind of the moving through
the threshold quickly to get out of it and recognizing

(02:34:01):
that you are still entangled with the space you emerged from,
whether you stopped and looked or not. You're the best, James,
Appreciate you very much. So much stuff here to talk about.
We'll get back to this, as you know, because there's
a ton of ways to consider these ideas and a
ton more actual mythology and folklore that fits into this.
But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Appreciate you very much, brother,

(02:34:23):
you are the best, as you know.

Speaker 11 (02:34:26):
Thank you and everyone. I have a great night.

Speaker 4 (02:34:28):
James Salcito, the paranormal expert of Trouble Minds Salcito paranormal
dot com. Go check out all the things James is doing.
Please follow his podcast, Please listen to his podcast. By
the way, like I keep saying, and this is true,
find me a better, more comprehensive paranormal catalog of all

(02:34:50):
things paranormal on the entire Internet than Salceito Paranormal Shout
out Gen two co hosting on the weekends over there.
So many fire ideas flow through that show as part
of this, and they're cataloged for posterity. Are you listening,
You should be. You should be. Let me read these
two things real quick, Matthew, and then we'll wrap this up.

(02:35:10):
The final two laws. So if we're sniffing out these
laws as part of this, we've got three. There's, just
real quick, the cross Realm Code of Conduct, the forward
case we talked about, the banquet of binding, and the
gait protocol. I do have two more law four, the

(02:35:33):
reciprocity clause. Do not accept gifts unless you intend to
remain in the realm, which kind of goes back to
the eating again. The purpose exchange is contract, very fay
realm esque. Accepting creates a bond that demands repayment or
presence mythic evidence Celtic gifts from fairies often carry binding obligations,

(02:35:59):
Norse accepting, Hell's hospitality signals acceptance of death. Shinto gifts
from kami or yo kai. How do you say that
require service or devotion? Pardon my Japanese. And the larger
context here is physical or energetic exchanges create sympathetic links
like a magical handshake, agreement, and the final one the

(02:36:23):
silence oath. And this is based on as usual as
we delve these ideas out. Maybe we're kind of building
the metaphysical framework of what deep magic from the dawna
time actually means. But the silence oath do not speak
until you have fully crossed back words can reopen the

(02:36:43):
link or draw attention from entities in pursuit. In Finnish,
underworld travelers learned not to speak until they are home. Greek,
certain rights require silence until purification. The term is caught
a basis k A T A B A S. I
S don't know if I said that right. Indigenous Americas,

(02:37:06):
some spirit journeys require fasting and silence on return. The
larger context speech is vibration. It can retune you to
the realm you're leaving, undoing the exit. Quick shout out,
We'll go to Matthew. Give me just a just a
couple of seconds here, hiker emoji send send your your

(02:37:31):
prayers and good vibes to our good friend hiker over
there on on Rumble, who said, I hope if you
guys can repin that comment that she said about Jen
pretty please, I want to read that because it was
it was a very nice thing to say about Jen's
call that it hits hard. Jen is hotter hot fire

(02:37:51):
than a phoenix or something like that. If you guys can,
if you if you can find it, I was scrolling
trying to find it anyway. Condolences to hiker emoji and
thank you for spending your time energy with us. Send
good vibes to our friend. And some losses are harder
than others. And when it's very very close family, it is. Yeah,

(02:38:14):
it is. We're thinking about you and praying for you,
if you believe in prayers and all the things. And yeah,
thanks for thanks for peeling out a little bit of
time for us. Shout out Tamlines over there as well,
Matthew and Colorado. The final two laws there based on
intuition and scholarship, the silence oath and the reciprocity clause
got a final take for us.

Speaker 2 (02:38:35):
Yeah, those were heavy. You opened up another fifteen minutes
that we don't have time for. But I gosh, darn it,
but I've kind of had experience with that, and I
think especially the exchange like of gifts. But you also

(02:38:58):
said energy kind of reminded me of oh, what do
you call them? The uh where they come to you
in dream time. But it might be or like the
sirens or the you know, sort of sexual or what
do you The words escape me right now, but is

(02:39:20):
what you're talking about succubus. Yeah, and that that's sort
of an energetic exchange gift sort of thing that that
can like bind you across realms. And the silence one
I related to as well. And there's there's experiences I've
had and that I you know, one I could not

(02:39:42):
speak during them or after them, and I do not
speak of them and I so I definitely relate to
that one. But back to what James said, I just
had two comments there to wrap up. I think that
first of all, in going back to talking about knowing
in personal experience, and I know what he's talking about

(02:40:04):
because you know, we both, for example, had UFO experiences.
And it's really commonly reported that when when somebody is
an experiencer of any type and has that a firsthand experience,
they almost always say something along the lines of I
know what I saw, and, like James said, besides some

(02:40:31):
contradictory evidence that you were confused, or you misperceived or
you misinterpreted. When you have that type of experience or
other experiences, it's like I know what I experienced. I
know what I saw, and you know, I pretty much
don't care what anybody else says at this point. And

(02:40:54):
like you said, though, too, it's important to remain open
minded that other people. Well, everybody's had different experiences. Everybody
knows different things than other people know. But then there's
some common ground and we can exchange those. But it
has to do with being open minded. And the other

(02:41:15):
thing I would say that I related to what James
said was about proof and evidence. And I'll just close
with a quotation I always appreciated, and that is that.
And I don't know who said it, but they said
for the skeptic, no amount of evidence is sufficient and

(02:41:37):
for the believer none is required.

Speaker 4 (02:41:40):
Exactly right. And I call those reality tunnels, and it's
important for us to talk about them and cross those
barriers because I think it's complicated, and that's the whole point.
Complicated is okay. I'm not afraid of complicated, and look
at many people are not again not present company included there,

(02:42:00):
but you know what I mean, Like, we're sort of
trained to be afraid of complicated because people are going
to get upset. People are going to be mad if
you say something that they don't believe or whatever, but
also recognize that in the span of the human space,
like we are, our reality anchors are based on these beliefs,

(02:42:20):
sometimes from you know, childhood, when like five, we believe
a thing because we believe the thing, and we never
stop believing the thing despite all the evidence or whatever.
Or again, maybe you believe the thing entirely because your
intuition tells you it was true. It was a true
reality anchor. Look, it's important, guys. All this stuff is
very important. Like I said, the dehumanizing people in terms

(02:42:43):
of politics and religion and everything else is, for lack
of a better term, it is evil. It is demonic. Okay,
like define that how you like. But we should not
seek to dehumanize people. We should seek to humanize people.
Welcome to Trouble Minds. Appreciate you very much, Matthew. Thanks
for hanging out with us and staying up late and

(02:43:04):
filling in tonight and being the glue and welcome back.
I'm glad you're in a good spot too. Matthew's in
a good spot. He's moved what would you call it,
moved to it in a new space, a new place,
and glad I had good.

Speaker 2 (02:43:19):
I had to move again the other night. But interestingly,
I'm back up in the mountains where I had my
UFO sighting, right in the same spot, So back up
my own turf and yeah, moved three times in one month.

Speaker 4 (02:43:34):
Nice. Let's uh, let's hope it's not a fourth. Shout
out hiker says this found found the comment. Appreciate that.
Hiker says this shout out Jen in Missouri. The hurricane
observer says, Wow, everything about this topic is hitting hard,
and Jen is more on fire than a phoenix. Thank you, Iiker,
send you your condolences, your uh etheric wisdom, your prayers, frequencies, vibrations,

(02:44:02):
whatever you got to our friend hiker. Like I said,
some some losses hit harder, some are closer to home
than than Yeah. Yeah, so this one, hiker, what's your
what's your mom's name? Well, we'll dedicate this one to
her as we get out of here and say your name,
speak it aloud, have the vibration of the energy go

(02:44:24):
out into the ether as part of it, and sort
of time stamp it into the moment. If you're okay
with that, I don't want to do it. If you're not,
you're not comfortable with that look in terms of being human, Ay,
like I always say, I excel at being human all
the ways, right, I can. I can be dumb, I
can be smart, I can be motivated, I can be lazy.

(02:44:49):
I can do all the things right, and so can you.
So let's find the things that push us into the space,
the space we need to be in mind it from wherever.
And part of why I do this and show up
like the rube knucklehead is I hope this inspires you.

(02:45:11):
I hope that you see you don't have to be
some tenured academic at some ivy League school to talk
about philosophy, to talk about ideas, to consider that the
nature of actual reality. Because let me tell you what
those guys find. Respect them or not as you see fit,

(02:45:32):
but those people probably wish they could do more of
the stuff we do. Otherwise they get, you know, laughed
out of town. Look at Avi Lobe getting laughed out
of town for saying everything is an actual UFO or
whatever I mean. Okay, yeah, say good vibes to hiker.

(02:45:54):
Please let's see found it that the Okay watching this, Okay, Diane,
we'll get to nay, okay, Okay. So here's the deal, right,
don't forget this is not about truth. I didn't drop
the disclaimers in the beginning. I should have. Truth is
the slippery fish. As I like to say, truth is

(02:46:14):
your belief anchor. Truth is things that are always changing.
It's a perspective, Marcus Aurelius. Truth is a perspective. So
just consider that as we move through this life together,
it goes fast. I'm old and it goes fast. And yeah,

(02:46:35):
I don't know. You know me. I try and gush
about all the human things, not necessarily to remind you.
That's a nice benefit because so many people listen to
this show. Thank you for that, but to remind myself,
because if I don't do that, that's easy to lose yourself. Yeah,

(02:46:55):
if you want to help Trouble Minds, help our friends,
Troubled Minds dot Org, forward slash Friends. Very simple. Like
I said, all the time and effort they're wading to
all of this. I know you respect it. Please respect
it by spending a little time and energy of your
own to go to Trouble Mind's daughter rog Courtside Friends
and follow all of these amazing people. If you should

(02:47:17):
be on this list, you should be on this list.
Let's go support each other. Sweets has it right, always
showing up at all the different streams, all the different people,
the Trouble Minds Fam and the Extended Trouble Minds Fam,
an Algorithm stream and all the rest. I mean, there's
so many great people that have made this show go
and are still out there doing amazing stuff. Please, let's
help each other. That's what this has always been about.

(02:47:39):
Don't forget to follow Matthew and Colorado Trouble Mind's dotterg
Courtside friends while you're down there. It's right there, Matthew. Matthew.
Matt's books is what it says. Go check that out.
As we finish this one goes out the Hiker and
your mother, Diane, be sure, be strong, be true. Thank

(02:48:04):
you for listening. From our Trouble Minds to yours. Have
a great night,

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The Cross-Realm Code of Conduct - Exit Velocity and Form Integrity

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Cross-Realm Code of Conduct - Exit Velocity and Form Integrity