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August 27, 2025 175 mins
Is it possible that experienced hikers who report supernatural encounters in deep wilderness are actually accessing real phenomena that exist beyond our current scientific understanding? Could human consciousness retain dormant abilities to commune with ecosystems through electromagnetic resonance, quantum field effects, and forms of distributed awareness that span entire landscapes?

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​https://troubledminds.substack.com/p/the-haunted-forest-hiker-folklore

​https://x.com/WillManidis/status/1960316234324389959

​https://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2009/04/phantom_hiker_of_grandfather_m.html

​https://blog.hiiker.app/2024/10/10/the-most-haunted-hiking-trails-in-america/

​https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/vanishing-hitchhiker-urban-legend

​https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9744507/

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
But I think the development of artificial intelligence developed the
end up the m and race.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
It's a prime objective. We don't know what it is.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
I would somebody is checking it out.

Speaker 4 (00:16):
Where the luck or whatever? But to be five, you know,
alto to do like could they would be probably do.

Speaker 5 (00:23):
I'm glad the Pentagon is a opposed threat.

Speaker 6 (00:26):
I love them up all the craft generates its own
gravitational field.

Speaker 4 (00:32):
And he didn't like him.

Speaker 7 (00:33):
Guy, the Internet has become the comet.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Send them the criminals and terrors. Let it happen. That's
that's what we're expected to side.

Speaker 8 (00:49):
Rosser Area fifty one, Avian kept deep under the ground.

Speaker 9 (00:59):
Understand the media, Now, that's interesting, the self serving.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
You're here for the reason.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
You're listening into Trump of Mines Radio, broadcasting live from
the Simple Bunker just off the Extra Terrestrial Highway, somewhere

(01:54):
in the Desert Sands outside of Las Vegas, from somewhere
in space time loosely.

Speaker 10 (02:06):
Labeled Generation X on plannings and asking questions of you,
an artist.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
Into the digital dist Welcome evening, and welcome to Troubled

(02:47):
Minds Radio. I'm your host, Michael Strange. We're streaming on
YouTube a rumble x, Twitch and kick. We are broadcasting
live on the Troubled Minds Radio Network. That's KUAP Digital
Broadcasting and of course eighty eight point for fm Auckland,
New Zealand. Tonight's Tonight's other than technical issues. To kick
off the show tonight, I got a wild one for you.

(03:08):
As usual, sometimes we go a little too deep, a
little too weird, a little too wild and off the
beaten path. And with Troubled Minds, I get a little
too you know, a navel gazy with not just philosophy,
but with you know, sort of metaphysics and some of
the other wild things we talk about. However, I thought
tonight we'd go back to the beginning, of course, not

(03:29):
just let's say, of the paranormal or hauntings and things
of that nature, but particular spaces, liminal spaces as we
like to call them, and in particular, of course, the
Haunted Forest is one of the oldest tropes there is.
That's sort of when it comes to the paranormal. Okay,
because of course, the deeper you go and the longer

(03:50):
you spend sort of in that hiker state. Okay, shout
out hiker if you're out there and the hiker state,
or you know, kind of out there just exploring and
doing all the things that are happening out there in
the wilderness. You tend to become a different critter. You
become sort of faral mode, right, You start to become
that more of that and less of your domesticated self.

(04:11):
And it's because you have to. You absolutely have to,
because as we've talked about in the past, the world
is trying to kill you. I mean, it just what
it is. It's just you know, there are predators and
all kinds of stuff out there. And I don't have
to tell you. Guys, you know more than me a
hide here behind the keyboard, but you get what I'm saying. Suddenly,

(04:33):
when you start to go out and venture too far
into the wilderness, it becomes an unforgiving place. And in
that particular sense, and what we're talking about tonight, it
really feels like it is a haunted experience. Now, whether
you believe in the paranormal or not is irrelevant to
the conversation because, as I always say, there's you know,
one hundred ways to look at this, and if you

(04:55):
ask the right question to a thousand different people, you're
likely to get a thousand different answers, so you take
a the paranormal is kind of irrelevant in the sense
of we're talking about the the trope of the haunted
forest now in particular, I started, I found this and
this is what inspired it. As usual, right, you Sometimes
you just find inspiration in the most bizarre places, And
this time it was on X and I don't even

(05:16):
know who this guy is, but this, this, this actual
tweet has or post as they call them these days,
has garnered two point eight million views. And he posted
this on the twenty six What's today is today? And
I almost read it to you because this is wild, okay,
And you'll see why, the why the inspiration, but it's
it goes like this. If you talk to any serious hiker,

(05:40):
they're like, yes, demons are real. Make sure you don't
walk along a stream for too long. Sometimes a witch
trails me for miles. Avoid wearing bright colors and pray
while entering the forest or being it's a typo pray
being entering the forest, but while entering the forest, the

(06:02):
ancient is still very much alive along the edges. And
I thought, well, that's a weird thing, and I clicked
on this guy's profile and he seems like not a
weirdo like us, And I mean that the nicest way,
of course, but I was kind of cruising through and
it seems like it's just you know, shallow markets and
deep cultures, and you know, he's not too far off
the rails when I'm kind of reading some of this stuff,

(06:22):
and you know, he's kind of a weirdo, but I
don't know, not the type of weirdo that you would
expect a post like this from. But anyway, it's going
super viral and I saw it and was like, well,
that's kind of cool. So we'll start with those questions
as as usual, you know me, I like to talk
about these ideas, nonlinear, open ended and kind of look
a look at the granular aspects of the Haunted Forest,

(06:43):
not just the trope itself. But you know, are demons real?
Have you spent any time out there actually hiking? And well,
if you have, have you encountered people that say this
as serious hiker, that's like demons are real because maybe
they've seen them on the trail. And that becomes the
funny because I was reading, you know, some of the
comments here and there's some people that are like, I'm

(07:04):
a serious hiker and I've been all over the place
and I've never heard anybody say anything of the sort, right,
which is funny. And then those other people that, of
course are going to say the opposite as usual, and
that's fine by me. Let the internet fight with each other.
But it still makes for a fascinating conversation in terms
of what the trope of the Haunted Forest looks like. Now,
as usual, all the disclaimers do apply. There's no truth

(07:25):
to be found here. This is just ideas. This is
just looking at the world in a slightly different way
and wondering what we're missing. Because clearly that idea of
a feral state that kind of brings out the most
let's say, intuitive aspect of ourselves as we blend with
nature or mild with nature, seems to make a lot
of sense. And that we're not focused on off course

(07:47):
devices or what the radio or whatever the hell's going on,
like the latent sort of traffic driving by, you know,
the siren and the background, this type of stuff like
that's completely tuned out from our brain, and our brain
is tuned into a completely other space. Now I went
through this and I was looking into some of these
other things, including, of course hiker folklore, and so we

(08:09):
get into some of this stuff. There's North Carolina stuff,
the Phantom Hiker of Grandfather Mountain, most taunted hiking trails
in America. I mean, it's on and on, it's on
and on, and not just let's say, the the the
Vanishing Hitchhiker. We've talked about that in the past as well.
So there's a ton of stuff kind of that layers
into this. But we'll start with the simple question of
what about demons? Are they real? Are you likely to

(08:32):
find them in some backwood trail tailing you along a river?
You shout out rivers that you stayed too close to. Now,
like I said, it's it's a weird, weird comment to make,
just kind of randomly out of the blue, but I
think it's super cool and I kind of want to
make posts like this anyway. So we as usual, we're

(08:52):
taking your call tonight. If you want to be part
of the conversation. The way to do that is to
just buy all the phone seven oh two nine five
seven to one zero three seven. You click the discord
link at Troubledminds dot org and do it. That way
as well. And yeah, so that's what some of my
mind tonight. As we start, we're going to get into
some other weird stuff, because if you check out the
write up tonight, it is it is very good, per usual. However,
there's a bunch of wild ideas in this why these

(09:15):
things start to happen to us in that feral state,
in that sort of haunting mode where we're you know,
every twig that breaks, we're on high alert and kind
of looking over our shoulder because there's nobody there to
save you. As they say, in space, there's no nobody
will hear you scream or whatever, right, but deep in
the forest, if you're out there by yourself, the same

(09:36):
thing go as if something bad happens, you're not likely
to have somebody pass by and as an accident, happy
accident save you. So it is a well the haunted
Forest trope. That's what's on my mind tonight. We'll get
into some of this other stuff, but and I'll read
you a little bit from the right up because it's
very good, love to hear your thoughts. As usual. We
got James in here. I thought the Haunted Forest would

(09:56):
attract him. James, we'll talk to him in just a
second here but as usual, love to hear your thoughts
on this. I can ramble on. Hey, I'll be here
all night, but let's take a quick break and get
a word from our sponsor, which of course, in this
case will be the Stoic mindset, and we'll be right back.
More Trouble Minds and exactly one minutes, don't go anywhere.
We got James Salcido coming up, the paranormal expert of

(10:18):
Trouble Minds, and your calls as well and more on
the Haunted Forest. It's a hiker folklore and reciprocal perception,
which is super cool when we get to it, be
right back, don't go anywhere. Feeling stressed, overwhelmed and today's
fast paced world, it's easy to get swept away by
our emotions, take a breath and find your inner strength.

(10:41):
With the Stoic minute. You have power over your mind,
not outside events. Realize this and you will find strength.
The ancient Stoic philosophers understood that we can't control everything
in life, but we can control how we react. The
happiness of your life depends upon the quality of your thoughts.

(11:03):
Focus on what you can influence cultivate a positive mindset
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Embrace the stoic virtures and find peace within the stoic minutes.

(11:27):
Brought to you by Jack in Oregon. Oops, brong buttonw
Welcome back to troubled minds. Not Michael Strange technical difficulties.
I hope everybody's well tonight. There we go. That's the
right button. Okay, so welcome back talking the haunted for us.
Let's continue, shall we? Hiker folklore and reciprocal perception. Now,
this is straight from the write up. Like I said,
it is very good. Do check it out links in

(11:48):
the description down below. The transformation happens gradually. City dwellers
who venture into backcountry for weekend trips might dismiss these
accounts as campfire theatrics. But something shifts after your tenth
night alone under stars so dense they seem to press
down on your tent, after you've walked forty miles without

(12:10):
seeing another human footprint, after you've sat in complete silence
for hours, watching mist rise from valleys that haven't changed
in millennia. Veterans of long distance trails develop an entirely
different sensory vocabulary, though casually mention how certain ridge lines
feel wrong, or describe the way deer behavior changes before

(12:31):
weather systems that won't hit for another day. They notice
when a bird calls, when bird calls fall silent in
specific patterns, when the quality of light shifts in ways
that have nothing to do with cloud cover. These observations
blur the line between environmental awareness and something approaching divination.
Consider the hiker who swears by never camping near water

(12:52):
after dark, not because of flooding risk, but because too
much happens near water, near moving water at night. Where
have we heard that before, shout out rivers, Or the
through hiker who changes roots based on dreams, consistently avoiding
areas where rock slides or aggressive wildlife encounters occur days later.

(13:13):
Skeptics might invoke confirmation bias, but when your life depends
on reading subtle environmental cues, the margin between intuition and
survival instinct becomes razor thin. We'll leave it there, but
like I said, the the write it is very good,
lots of wild ideas in it. As you get deeper in,
and I will touch on those as we go, But
as usual, this is a call in show. Hey, and

(13:34):
I'd love to hear your ideas here. What do you
know about the haunted forest? Again, we'll start with the
tweet here and the question you know our demon's real? Right?
If you talk to any serious hiker, they're like, yes,
demons are real. Make sure you don't walk along a
stream for too long. Sometimes the witch trails me for miles.
Avoid wearing bright colors. Is any of this wisdom? Or
does this seem like just another viral tweet in the

(13:56):
digital age? Seven two nine five seven one zero three
seven click discord like a Troubleminds dot org will put
you on the show just like this. Let's go to
mister Celcido James. How you don't brother your own trouble Minds?
How are you sir? Go right ahead, I'm.

Speaker 11 (14:09):
Okay, hopefully you can hear me through the heater I
have going on the background. Other than that, Okay, great topic.
I can't tell you how many accounts I've found they're
doing my research for that's always pugged my show, but
my podcast where I find posts some people that had
paranormal unusual experiences, and one of the common areas where

(14:32):
they have experiences is and nature is out in woods
and forests, even just in parks. So they're not huge,
they're not national parks, not national forests, but they're still
big enough for someone to go into and not be
able to hear anything from civilization around that particular section

(14:55):
of land. So this whole concept of me is really
fa Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
And there's a lot to it. The more I was
digging into this, and again, it's funny how much information
can just come out of one little comment like that
that starts this entire thing, Because look, the haunted Forest
is one of the basics. It's very dungeons and Dragons.
It's very you know, your campaign is on the edge
of a haunted forest where you have this little village
that's being terrorized by you know, entities, were wolves or

(15:23):
even a pack of wolves or whatever that as you
investigate the plot thickens and they're kind of maybe were wolves, right,
this type of stuff, and I mean not just does
it fit sort of the Dungeons and Dragons archetype of
the haunted space or Mirkwood forest from the Lord of
the Rings, this type of thing, but it is embedded
deep in our psyche as that wilderness space of if
something happens out there, something terrible, there's no help, no

(15:47):
one to hear you scream. And that's sort of that
ancient horror of ourselves and the abyss, and you know,
kind of a little Cuthulhu that comes into these conversations
as part of that. We're temporary and you never know
when your time comes, and not to be too too
dire and grim about it, but it's certainly one of
those places that makes you respect nature a little bit more.
You know, if you're too far out to kind of

(16:08):
hike back in a day and you twist your ankle
or something, you're in big, big trouble and that becomes
something as simple as that becomes literally something something that
could could cause your cause your early demise. But yeah,
regarding haunted force, what else you got there's a I know,
there's a ton to this. I mean, Hansel and Gretel
and you know, the witch in the forest and the like.

(16:29):
The like I said, the more you chase these stories
down and the ideas down, they're just so much here.
But what comes to your mind in terms of this,
not just let's say, with the paranormal stuff, but otherwise maybe, uh,
what you've heard from sort of uh, the maybe missing
four one one comes to mind as part of it,
as you know, take it anywhere you like, my friend,
what else you got?

Speaker 11 (16:48):
Yeah, And I'm happy to sit in tonight because I
think more of that will come up in my mind
naturally as we discuss other things. But I was just
thinking about how, how how little like I would not
consider myself a hiker in any way. I enjoyed being
out in nature more when I was a kid, and

(17:08):
over time I kind of got out of that. But
even just being in an organized camp like a SMAR
camp that was out in a forest, and even though
we would go and have meals in this you know,
very advanced or modern dining hall, you know, that's where

(17:30):
we hit our meals because it was a camp for
people with low vision or no vision, it was still
just the sounds when you're out there are just so
different from and it seems obvious, but it's just the
depth of the sounds, the amount of different sounds. I've
heard people say that when you get out into nature

(17:52):
away from civilization, it gets really quiet, and I think comparatively, yes,
but also it's not silence. Usually there's all kinds of animals,
there's all kinds of just wind making trees move. There's
there's all kinds of things that you can you know,
you'll hear when you're out there, and maybe I don't

(18:15):
know whatever, it takes a while to being out there
to hear those things are not because I was only
ever out there for like two weeks at a time.

Speaker 12 (18:24):
Uh.

Speaker 11 (18:24):
And then, like I said, that was when I was
a kid. But I had a couple of weird, weird
experiences in and around that those summer camps, So it
does seem to be something that's out there, and it's
it's all kinds of reports of all kinds of beings
from you know, cryptids, creatures like like chess quatch, your bigfoot,

(18:46):
to fay or fairies or little folk, to ghosts, to
all these things. And I just real quick I found
an account of the day for my show I haven't
even put out, ah, because I just found it where
these two people were going into this forest and they

(19:07):
they one of them saw a mosquito on the other
and and brushed it off and killed it, and all
of a sudden, in the woods that they were in,
they started to smell something, and it smelled like blood
all around them, and something flew towards them and passed them,
and it was a humanoid figure like two or three

(19:29):
inches tall with wings, and it flew by them between them,
and then as soon as it passed and that that
smell of blood fainted away. But they still felt like
they were being watched until they got out of there.
So there's wild things happening throughout time up to.

Speaker 12 (19:51):
The present day.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah, ball lightning, Willow of the Wisp. We've talked about
all this stuff, and as you guys know, if you've
been listening for any amount of time, it is one
of my favorite theories that prime ordial nature spirit and
so sort of the deeper you get into that wilderness
and sort of the fog starts to, you know, come
and play in the early mornings and the as dusk
kind of rolls in in certain certain climates and whatnot.

(20:12):
It's it's just a it's a really regal and beautiful
and also spooky place all at the same time. And
you know, we were talking about the Redwoods a little bit
on the chat, what a couple of weeks ago, I
think maybe last week, but uh, it's just a sort
of an otherworldly effect of ancient life. You know, these trees,
how old are they? And sort of the myceolium networks
we're always talking about. It's just incredible to think that

(20:34):
there's maybe memories there that are sort of seeping out
and maybe our feral perceptions kind of pick up on.
But just just a couple ideas. But what Scott, I
love that tale that you got there of the experience.
That seems another synchronicity. You didn't add it to the show.
I haven't heard it yet, but here we are.

Speaker 11 (20:54):
Yeah, I because I'm always I'm finding accounts to put
on my future shows every day, but they don't get
onto the show until days or well weeks later sometimes,
So yeah, this was not planned in any way, which
is really amazing. I did have an experience while being
out in It was in the cabin, but it was

(21:16):
an old passioned no electricity, just a cabin, and it
was at night and everyone else had fallen asleep, and
of course I had not, because even as a kid,
I started to become a night owl as it was,
and I started hearing this shouting, chanting, kind of a

(21:36):
bunch of voices. I did not recognize off in the
distance in the direction of the campfire, the fire pit.
And what was odd about them is they were all
there was no they were all perfectly in sync, all
perfectly saying or shouting or whatever.

Speaker 12 (21:55):
They were doing everything at the same time.

Speaker 11 (21:59):
And it went on for a few minutes and I
could not understand what they were saying, and then it
just increased in volume, and then it just faded away,
and I could not believe. I was waiting for someone
else in the cabin to say something like did you
hear that? But no one else did, so I feel
like they were all asleep and I was the only
one to hear it. And I still don't know what

(22:21):
that was, because it doesn't make sense for all the
camp counselors to just go and and do this massive
whatever the ritual or whatever they're going to do in
a campfire, waking up all the kids, possibly in the
process bacchanalia.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
James.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
Maybe they were overcome by something and had to do
the ritual to escape. Who really knows, right, but yeah,
that's what's yeah, yeah, yeah, there you go. Even better,
even better, Maybe as I described, maybe some of those
memories kind of seeping back. I do wonder m.

Speaker 11 (22:52):
Yeah, it was just so surreal and it never happened again,
and no one else said it in the next day.

Speaker 12 (22:58):
So that's why I'm also pretty sure that.

Speaker 11 (23:00):
I mean, unless someone was awake and just said, oh, no,
one's going to believe this, which is also possible. But yeah,
it was really and this was like I was, I
don't know, eleven or twelve, thirteen maybe at the time,
so this was years ago. But again, I do think
there's something when it comes to energy and sound and

(23:22):
all these things are just so different when you're out there.
And that's just from compared to some people. That's just
from a very limited amount of time I spent out
in the woods. Even I'm aware of that, even though
I don't go out there much anymore.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
Yeah, it makes a ton of sense. And like I said,
all of us have probably had some level of that spookiness.
You know, you hear something in the woods, and you
know you're always in the back of your mind there's
a bigfoot, right, Could it be bigfoot? Could it be
one of those forest cryptids in the different parts of
the world. Who knows? And that's why we talk about
these ideas, because what do you believe we started with
this again. We're here with James delcdo. Thanks again, he's

(23:57):
going to be sitting in Appreciate that very much. Go
give him a fallow on all the places Troubledminds dot
org Ford's life friends, or of course, just straight to
the website Salcedo Paranormal dot com as a L. S
I d O paranormal and we started with this weird,
uh weird tweet from this guy. If you and I'll
just read it and it We'll take a break and
come right back. If you talk to any serious hiker,
they're like, yes, demons are real. Make sure you don't

(24:20):
walk along a stream for too long. Sometimes the witch
trails me for miles. Avoid wearing bright colors and prey
while entering the forest. The ancient is still very much
alive along the edges. Yeah, I kind of agree. Do
you agree? Stefano two nine one zero three seven. You
can click the discord link at Troubledminds dot org. Love
to hear your thoughts on this. That shall sell my life.

(24:43):
More haunts of forest coming up. This is Troubled Minds
on Michael Strange. We're here with James Salcedo, taking your
calls be right back, more on the way.

Speaker 13 (25:09):
In the heart of food, for the shadows, screen.

Speaker 14 (25:18):
For the whispersively.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
For the memories, read for star Taco, the ancient.

Speaker 13 (25:35):
Treess oney voices called.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
In the cool gentle breeze.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Each stead feels like that t The stories.

Speaker 14 (26:14):
Unfold in the mist and the side.

Speaker 13 (26:22):
This secrets ree told, bracing the mystery.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
I wander along.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Where the spirits stilling.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
In the wildest great.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
In the ahient.

Speaker 13 (26:50):
Forest, where the echoes hunting foodstistical say.

Speaker 3 (27:23):
Welcome back to Troubled Minds. I'm your host, Michael Strange.
We're streaming on YouTube a rumble x and Twitch and
kick Whoa. We are broadcasting live on the Troubled Minds
Radio Network. That's KUAP Digital Broadcasting and eighty eight point
four FM Auckland, New Zealand. Tonight, we're talking the Haunted Forest,
going all the way back to not just hiker folklore.

(27:44):
It's something called reciprocal perception, but also how about this,
I'll just read the blurb. Is it possible that experienced
hikers who report supernatural encounters in deep wilderness are actually
accessing a real phenomena that exists beyond our current scientific
understanding and there's more there, but I rambled, so I
should have just read the blurb. Anyway, let me hear

(28:04):
your thoughts on this as usual. It's a look as
an old trope. It's just like the Haunted House. It's
just like liminal spaces like we always talk about. The
cryptids fit into this certainly so that feeling of things
in the forest as yet catalog by mankind, that whole
bit right, there's a there's definitely a spooky element to
the deep woods. And do you think there is I

(28:24):
don't know. Dare we say suggests haunting or that the
demons are real or you know, things to that degree, which, again,
like I said, the thing that sparked this entire conversation
was this fantastic tweet from this guy. I don't even
know who he is, but it went viral. It's still
going viral. Will menitis menitis? I don't know. If you
talk to any serious hiker, they're like, yes, Stevens are real.

(28:45):
Make sure you don't walk along a stream for too long.
Sometimes the witch trails me for miles. Avoid wearing bright
colors and prey being entering the forest. That's a typo
the ancient is still very much alive along the edges,
and I think very much true this is there's a
lot of truth here. But how much is true? And
what do you know about demons being real and all
the rest of this stuff? And why is it that

(29:07):
the deep forest and that sort of that that hiker
phenomenon really can draw out the feral perceptions within us
and make us see what's happening. Well, that's not so
obvious to our modern lives. And yeah, so anyway, I'd
love to hear your thoughts on this, Nobody on the
phone line. If you guys want to jump in here,
put up your hand a discord seven oh two nine

(29:29):
one zero three seven click the discord link at troubleminds
dot org. James, anything to add to that, going to
go back to the right up here, because there's a
ton of good stuff in it. Welcome back to the thing.

Speaker 12 (29:38):
Yeah, A couple of things that I find fascinating about the.

Speaker 11 (29:43):
Water and then the the witch that is said to
be seen as a figure. First of all, the water
aspect is always amazing because we everyone has probably heard
that water running water creates energy, and there's all kind
of folklore and mythology about either other beings not being

(30:06):
able to cross the water waterways or using waterways, or
people even using waterways and those being some kind of
a portal as well, So there's it can go both
ways and so and it's it's really I've been just
thinking now of all the accounts I've ever found of

(30:27):
people having experiences out in nature, I've never heard them
say we were camped out by the water. They were
always a ways away from it. And so again I'm
no expert in outdoors by any means, but just based
on things I've read over time. So that's fascinating. Is

(30:49):
that something that people some people just kind of know
in their minds and they've just figured it out without
even realizing it. I'm just curious about that. So the
water aspect is always amazing. Also, there are plenty of
accounts I've read of people either seeing a woman in
white in the woods. It's not just on the sides

(31:12):
of roads, and it's not just advancing vanaghing hitchhiker thing
or just hearing a woman singing or humming, and or
both seeing a woman in the woods trying to almost
like lure them into further into the woods. Or toward
them and getting weird feelings from whatever they're seeing and

(31:33):
then backing away from it because it's freaking them out.
So too common things that if you don't look into
these things, I might think they're more associated just with
cities or towns, but they're in the woods too.

Speaker 12 (31:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
Absolutely, And that woman in white business is very again
prevalent these tropes, these sort of wilderness tropes. I'm gonna
read this to you, so we'll kind of weave in
some of these things that I discovered as I was
digging through that pretty cool tweet when we started. But
the Phantom Hiker of Grandfather Mountain one of the most
enduring tales and hiking folklore is the phantom hiker of

(32:09):
Grandfather Mountain in North Carolina. Shout out our friends in
North Carolina. According to local legend, hikers on various trails
around this Cherokee sacred site encounter a tall, gruff man
with a beard, wearing old fashioned clothing and carrying a
rough pack. What makes his figure supernatural is his behavior.
He never acknowledges greetings from other hikers and mysteriously vanishes

(32:31):
into thin air. Cherokee mythology adds another layer as a grandfather.
Mountain was called Tanawa t a na w h a
Tanawa sounds right or translates to fabulous eagle, and believed
to house entrances to the underworld, guarded by little people
and a black panther. As James was saying earlier, we

(32:52):
got the little people in play here as well. And
like per usual, if you ever spent any time in
these rural areas out way out there, I mean I
I my grandparents lived up near this tiny town and
up near Shasta, and I spent a lot of time
in the forest up there as kids during the summers.
You know, we're wandering way too far. This is this

(33:14):
is a It was the eighties. I'm an eighties kid,
and so you know we were you know, well, we'll
see at dark, you know, sundown, and you get turned
around in the forest and you can find yourself lost.
And thankfully we never got lost. It was kind of
on the bottom of a hillside, so even if you
got turned around a little bit, you knew to go

(33:35):
to the bottom of the hill and find the road
or whatever, right, so it wasn't that bad. However, in
a flatter place there could have been problems and there
were all kinds of Shenanigans out there. Snakes we found
like big, big ass, like a like a bull snake.
One time it was just massive. My my brother came
zooming through the through the woods and literally like had
one of those O MG moments because it was like

(33:55):
right in front of him, and he leaped over it,
probably the longest jump of his entire life. But when
you see a big ass snake like that in the
woods and you're about to step on it, certainly it
wakes you up. But anyway, so there you go. We'll
leave that with the Phantom Hiker of Grandfather Mountain and
get back to some of this other stuff. But love
hear your thoughts on this if you want to be
part of the conversation. Again, this is a calling show
love to hear what you think. What's with the haunted forest,

(34:17):
this hiker folklore? And I'll get to reciprocal perception a
little bit later. But it is a fantastic way to
look at sort of that feral aspect of ourselves when
we detach from modern life and kind of go look
into the space out there in the wilderness. So which
I'm going to read right now, this is straight from
the right up again. Like I said, if you're interested
in these ideas, the rite up is fantastic. If you

(34:38):
want some ideas to talk about, go check it out
and maybe read ahead. But I'm going to read straight
from it because this is really good. The wilderness strips
away the insulation of modern life, as I was just saying,
the constant background hum of electricity, the reassuring geometry of
human construction, the social contract that danger will announce itself
through recognized channels. In that absence, other forms of pattern

(35:01):
recognition emerge. The forest becomes a text written in a
language older than words and often, and after enough time
learning to read it, the supernatural explanations start feeling less
like folklore and more like the most honest way to
describe experiences that defy conventional categories. What emerges isn't superstition,

(35:22):
but a different kind of empiricism, one that trusts instinct
honed by sustained exposure to forces larger and older than
human civilization. The neurological shifts begin around day seven of isolation.
They say. Brain scans of a long term solo hikers
reveal measurable changes in areas responsible for temporal processing and

(35:43):
other boundaries. The prefrontal cortex, usually busy parsing social hierarchies
and digital stimuli, reallocates resources toward processing micro variations and
wind patterns, soil scent, and the acoustic signatures of different
tree speces under stress. And that becomes the thing. Right,
you become this wizard. You become the shalman of the forest.

(36:06):
You become an actual druid of the D and D
sense because you're not necessarily directly and easily communing with nature. However,
it happens by accident, it happens by pure instinct. You're
sort of the modern senses fall away with you know,
you're not no longer listening for a car crossing the street.

(36:26):
You're listening for things that you couldn't explain, and that becomes, well,
that's sixth sense. The sixth sense kind of takes off
and it becomes a whole bunch of other things. So,
for instance, one more paragraph and we'll get to James.
If you've got more rangers working. Fire towers report similar phenomenon.
After months of watching empty horizons, they develop an almost

(36:48):
preternatural kind of state ability to spot smoke plumes hours
before satellites detect them. Their brains literally rewire to detect
anomalies and landscapes that appear static to untrained eyes. What
they describe sounds mystical. Quote the mountain tells me when
something's wrong. End quote. Neurologically, it's hypervigilance evolved into art form.

(37:14):
And yeah, so it's a weird thing right as usual.
So not just the human aspect of being deep in
the wilderness like this, but then also all the scary,
spooky stuff the wilderness brings. And back to the original question,
are demons real? Which I loved as part of that
original tweet. Alady again, if you talk to any serious hiker, though,
they're like, yes, demons are real. Make sure you don't

(37:35):
walk along a stream for too long. Sometimes a witch
trails me for miles, and he says more, but there's
a lot there, James. Anything on any of that that
I read or anything else you got, I got tons
more of course.

Speaker 12 (37:48):
Yeah, it's amazing.

Speaker 11 (37:49):
The thing along the stream aspect of that too, is
it's funny because I believe and others can correct me
if they'm wrong. But one of the ways people have
said they've found their way back to civilization there two
people is by following waterways. So I really wonder about that.

(38:10):
And again it goes back to sort of the the
different ways that water that we can interact with water,
and it has water itself. I mean it can, it
can be amazing, It can give you life, but if
you get under enough of it, then you're done. You
could possibly, So I really think that's amazing that people
have sort of this idea about using the waterways but

(38:32):
not too much.

Speaker 12 (38:34):
That's that's really fascinating.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
Yeah, it's very a legend of a sleepy hollow, which
where we're kind of coming into that spooky season anyway,
So this is this might be a good way to
kick that off. Because I don't know about you, James,
and what's happening up there in Michigan. You said the
heaters on, which is fantastic, meaning we're definitely getting to
that season. But here in Vegas, I counted several of
what is it, the Spirit Halloween stores. They're already open.

(38:58):
It's like not even September yet, and so these these
Spirit Halloween stores are open because everybody loves the spooky season, right,
and here we go, I don't know, it's a there's
a lot there. There's a lot of ways to look
at it. And that again back to what you said
with the rivers, shout out rivers, our friend rivers. Is
also that you know, the liminal spaces, the crossing of

(39:19):
those evil spirits and the rivers themselves, which is a
very specific thing when it comes to tracking and dogs
as well. It's an interesting aspect where if you go
down into the river, you know, being tracked by dogs,
it throws the scent off and you can kind of
backtrack in the river and kind of come out in
different places and then they're confused as hell, almost as
if that liminal space of the river sort of that

(39:40):
sleepy hollow effect will throw off even sort of a
sixth sense of a you know, a pack of bloodhounds,
which is all all of It's just an incredible thing
to think about, because it's a it's an incredible world
we live in, that's for sure. Anything on that, but yeah,
you're right on the river stuff. It is fascinating as hell.
And also go ahead, go ahead, And I got something
to say about their rivers as well.

Speaker 11 (40:02):
Oh, I'm just thinking that, you know, when it comes
down to it, the energy is everywhere, moving to everything
in different ways, and it's sort of these are tropes.
And when it comes to haunted houses, where it's there,
they may be haunted because of the energy that is
imprinted in or comes from the materials, the stone and

(40:26):
or the running water moving through the place. How many
weird experiences happen in and around bathrooms and kitchens of course,
that's those are two common places that.

Speaker 12 (40:36):
You're going to be in a home at any point.

Speaker 11 (40:38):
But also if you think about that, there's what's out
there in nature. There's rocks, there's stones, there's crystals, there's water.
There's already energy out there as well. It's just in
different forms and it's not been processed or shaped at
all by people, and so it's going to I imagine
it would feel different. And the sounds also to me,

(41:00):
I think that's another form of energy, and it does.
It really does sound different out there when you get
used to it. It's not usually silence, but when silence
does come, then you know there's something going on.

Speaker 3 (41:12):
Yeah. Absolutely, And regarding what you what you mentioned previously,
I didn't touch on was camping near the river. Anybody
heard this where you shouldn't do that? For not just
for flooding reasons obviously, but which we saw something tragic,
very tragic happened in what was it near Austin, Texas recently.
A lot of lives, hundreds of hundreds of people passed

(41:33):
away from that, that nasty flood there. But regarding camping
near the river or staying too long near the river,
it's because you could be tracked, right, meaning that you
hear the trickle, but somebody off the river doesn't hear that,
and they're hearing you instead, they're hearing the sounds you're
making sort of off the river itself. So I don't know,
I'm not an expert tracker, just kind of using my

(41:54):
common sense here, but it's an interesting aspect of the
wilderness and kind of that that space in it. I know,
we got some some lumberjacks out there that spend some
time in the woods, what do you guys know about it?
Or spend some time hiking out there, maybe deep in
particular places where people don't necessarily travel. And we're just
talking the haunted forest trope and again hiker folklore and
reciprocal perception, which I'll get to is a fascinating as hell.

(42:15):
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this seven oh
two nine five seven one zero three seven click the
discord link at Troubledminds dot org. Thanks for your patient friends.
Let's go to Joey L. Demente over there on discord.
Welcome back to the joint man, how you doing tonight?
And just unmute and it's all yours. Good evening and
welcome to Troubled Minds Radio. A a a ah, I'm

(42:37):
just kiddy doing my best scary scary villain, scary forest villain. Joey,
you're on Troubled Minds. Just to accept the invite and
then unmute and what is going on?

Speaker 2 (42:47):
My man?

Speaker 3 (42:48):
How you doing? Good evening? Hello? Hello, Yeah, I'm not
sure about the river stuff too. Like I said, I'm
not a as you can tell, I'm not a survivalist.
I'm sure that shocks everybody, right. I'm more of a
I feel like a digital native of you, and though

(43:09):
i'm not, but clearly you know my technology. I can
do these things and I'm good with that type of stuff.
But I'm not a certainly not a survivalist, so I'm
not I'm the wrong guy to get hiking tips from.
But the Joey al demente, just hit the hit the
green button or whatever it is a little land up
and then on mute and you're on trouble minds. Are

(43:29):
you there? My friend testing one two? I saw him.
He put his hand up earlier and then dipped, and
I thought he was going to reboot the discord to
make sure everything was working properly. What's up, Joey el demente.
I'll just keep going and then when you just pop in,
just pop on in and just interrupt me. Okay, So

(43:50):
so back to this now, I got a whole list
of stuff, Like I said, not just the haunt the haunting,
uh haunted hiking trails, but also the vanishing hitchhiker trope.
We got the weirdness of not just the the weird
folklore in different places. Let me read you some of that.
So that's there's the phantom hiker of Grandfather Mountain. I
read you that one already. What else do I got here?

(44:13):
Let's see, here's another one. So the Appalachian Trail. You
guys probably know this, you've heard of this, America's most
famous long distance hiking path, has become a hotbed for
ghost stories and mysterious encounters. One of the most well
documented legends is the Greenbriar Ghost in West Virginia, where
a woman is said to haunt sections of the trail
following her mysterious death. Hikers report eerie sensations, unexplainable noises,

(44:37):
and shadowy figures while traversing isolated stretches of the trail. Yeah, yeah,
and there's more that as usual, there's more and more.
The more you look into this stuff, the more this
stuff kind of stacks and you're like, okay, well, I
wonder if there is something to this and sort of
that the feral state of our super hyper attention that

(44:58):
that kind of draws out the power of the forest
or whatever. Gotcha? I could a discord? Yeah, cool, go
ahead and update that. Let's up, we'll get we'll get
back to your momentarily. Here, let's go to u Zeo
in Philly instead. What's up, my man? You're on trouble minds?
How are you?

Speaker 2 (45:10):
Sir?

Speaker 3 (45:10):
Welcome to the joint and go right head.

Speaker 4 (45:14):
Oh what's up?

Speaker 15 (45:15):
How are you doing? Ah?

Speaker 3 (45:16):
Pretty good, no complaints out of me, talking talking ghost
stories with my friends by dark of night, having a
good time. What's on?

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Your mind.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
Mamn, go right ahead.

Speaker 4 (45:25):
Yeah, it's ane of the best just talking ghost stories
by the dark of night with your friends. Indeed, yeah,
I'm slightly unprepared, but you did just mention the Appalachian Trail,
which I do have some experience with, uh myself and
like my ex girlfriend, we used to be like big
into doing sections of the Appalachian Trail, mostly like around

(45:45):
like a Pa, the Delaware Water Gap, a few other
sections kind of like in like Virginia and West Virginia,
and it's like, you know, a really nice trail for
the most part. It gets kind of creepy at parts,
but as does any place where you're not going to

(46:05):
immediately see humans nearby. One of the places, you know,
we were like doing like you know, kind of just
backpacking for a few days. Like we never actually had
the time or the means to do it all the way,
but we would go for like four or five days backpacking,
which I love. You know, backpacking is the best when

(46:28):
you're just actually away and it kind of like does
take you slightly away from humanity in the sense that
it kind of like teaches you that like back in
the day, you weren't able to rely on the conveniences
of just having water with you, Just carrying your water

(46:49):
with you by itself, it's kind of insane. Have you
ever had to do that?

Speaker 3 (46:53):
Yeah, not like that, kind of in short distances like
day trips, but not like that where you literally have
to you're with you on multiple day hikes. Never done that, because,
to be honest, if that freaks me out just a
little bit.

Speaker 4 (47:07):
Yeah, No, it's like a very weird feeling. You know,
like if you're going like on a day hike or
anything like that, you know, you can carry as much
water with you as you want, but like you know,
at the end of the day, you're going to get
back to your car or you're going to like get
back to a source of water. But you know, we
were like just like using like regular elevation maps, so

(47:29):
it's like kind of like you have to plan out
like how much water you're going to consume for the day,
and it's still like relatively civilized because you have a
map of where like the next like well is going
to be and you know when you're going to get water.
It's still like when you're going some of these sections,
like you know, like they're not high in terms of

(47:49):
actual elevation compared to the west, but the ups and
downs of the trail, like you're going up and down
constantly with some of these old glacial formations where you're
just walking up over a rocky terrain and then walking
down over rocky terrain, and you keep on doing that,
and you know that you're not gonna get like fresh

(48:10):
water until you get to like the next well. And
it's just like crazy thing that people like, you know,
like before humans actually built civilization, like regularly lived like this,
like not knowing exactly where the next water source was.
So sorry, that's like too much into the non spooky
part of it.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
That's okay, running out just run out of water in
the deep forest is spooky enough, but yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 4 (48:39):
Yeah. And there are also like sections that we hiked
where it gets creepy because there are these trees, Like
some of the sections are pretty poor soil for some reason.
I'm not sure exactly why, but like they have a
lot of trees that have dead branches on them, and
the dead branches fall during the night. So it's like

(49:00):
one of the creepiest things that you're ever going to
hear is just like you can hear like all these
dead branches when you're camped out, like when you're inside
your tent, just falling all around you, and it just
always sounds like something is sneaking up on you, but
like from right behind your tent. And I don't know,
that's just kind of the creepiest stuff. Yeah, yeah, And

(49:26):
I don't know. I'm probably like a victim of this.
Like I saw like a Blair Witch Project, which I
still think was at the time the best horror movie
ever made, back when it had like the viral marketing
and you could not tell if it was true or not.
I saw that when I was like a little kid.
But I also saw that when I was about to
go to like a summer camp, like a Sleepway camp

(49:46):
in Maryland, which is close to like the proposed like
location of the Blair which and I was just like,
oh my god.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
Like the part and that that freaks me out the
most is the end when it all goes to hell
and they find their friends standing in the corner, like
literally in the corner of that abandoned cabin, like just
staring at the corner like oh god, oh dude.

Speaker 4 (50:11):
That was like the best filmmaking ever. Like that was
so creepy, like showing kind of everything, like letting your
imagination run with it, not showing anything, but just the
group psychology of just everyone going crazy in the woods,
because the thing is like on the East Coast, it's
kind of hard to get like lost in the woods.
If you get lost, you can just always just like

(50:32):
walk downhill, and on the East Coast it's so heavily
populated that you're probably not going to like die of
thirst if you just walk downhill and walk in the
straight line, you're probably going to get to some sort
of person eventually. But yeah, like since I saw that
movie and probably before that, like, witches are one of
my biggest fears. And I actually like have like a

(50:55):
lot of like really weird dreams about witches in the woods.
And I'm not sure why. It sounds kind of like, uh,
I don't know, like almost like misogynistic, but it's not,
if you know what I'm saying. It's just one of
those weird things where I have a lot of nightmares
about witches.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
Yeah, I feel you. It's a it's it is an
unfair stereotype because if there's a witch, certainly there's a warlock.
And uh, I guess I don't know. I guess that's
that's a that's a conversation for another time. We're just
about that time, got about a minute left. After you
got anything else, You're welcome to stay after if you
got a little bit more.

Speaker 4 (51:30):
Oh no, I had like one little poem and like yeah,
I'm good, Like.

Speaker 3 (51:36):
Yeah, okay, cool, what you got? Go ahead, right?

Speaker 4 (51:43):
The path in the woods twist and wind like a
single stem from from branch to strangling vine, and from
the branch you get the urge to leave, never to
be salt, never to be seen, owns across the path.
I didn't twine with the riddles. While the gentle breeze

(52:06):
blows the notes of a quiet fiddle north or south,
ride or dismount. Dusk comes and darkness follows. And when
the darkness humes, you enter the Witch's hollows.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
Nice kicking us off for spooky season. I love it, brother,
welcome back, Glad to hear your voice. Thank you for
being the official poet of Trouble Minds, and thanks for
being our friend. Always a pleasure, goodness. Heyday one? Do
you what I feel like?

Speaker 2 (52:37):
You know what?

Speaker 3 (52:37):
You love him? We'll share a substack one day, we're
talking the haunted forest. Tonight, hiker folklore and reciprocal perception,
which you'll talk about momentarily. What do you know about it?
This gets super weird the more you get deeper into
the woods or deeper into the weeds of your mind.
Seven O two nine one zero three seven click to
discord lik at Troubleminds dot Org. We got Derek the
Nice Talker coming up. Michael W. Moore from James Joey.

(53:00):
Put your hand up and work you back in here.
Don't go anywhere more. Trouble Minds on the way b
right back. Welcome back to Troubled Minds. I'm your host,

(53:31):
Michael Strange. We're streaming on YouTube, rumble x, Twitch, and Kick.
We are broadcasting live on the Trouble Minds Radio Network.
That's KUAP Digital Broadcasting, which you can find right there
on the top at troubleminds dot org. It is a
black button. Listen live k u A p dB Las
Vegas broadcasting out of Las Vegas and also eighty eight
point four FM Auckland, New Zealand. Now tonight, we're talking

(53:54):
that spooky forest trope. Now we're going to get into
this thing called what is it? What did I call it?
And receive perception? And it's actually a thing, by the way,
it's actually a thing. There's a paper from the National
Library of Medicine talking about this exact phenomenon, so we'll
get to that a little bit later, but it is
there's a lot happening when you sort of detach from

(54:14):
the modern world and as they say, touch grass, you know,
kind of grounding that whole effect, but also when you
look at this in the larger context of the haunted
forest and those tropes we always talk about those primordial
nature spirits or the witch in the wilderness, Hansel and
Gretel and that whole stuff. Right, it's it is, It
is archetypal. It does almost as if it's buried in

(54:37):
our DNA somehow. Anyway, love to hear you guys, thoughts
on this. A lot of ways to look at it,
And what do you know about being deep in the
woods and sort of that's a sensory deprivation effect that
kind of sets in, and how our perception, the reciprocal
perception of nature itself starts to speak to us, and
how we start to understand its language once again. Seven
oh two nine one zero three seven click the discord

(54:59):
link it troubleminds dot Org anything James, and then we'll
go to Derek, Thence Loker.

Speaker 11 (55:05):
Just I'm wondering if if this is something I've experienced,
and I wonder if if anyone else has noticed this
with So for those that don't know, I'm legally blind,
so I I rely a lot. I'm hearing, I'm listening,
and when it comes to water, when it comes to
running water, it is the best way to disrupt my hearing.

(55:26):
If I have the sink or anything with running water
going in my apartment and there's someone else at the
other end of the apartment and they talk, nine times
out of ten, I will not be able to understand
what they're saying. And I'm just curious. Is that a
natural feature with water? Is it just the way my
ears work or what? But I could imagine that if
it happens to anyone else, that could be very disorienting

(55:49):
when you're near that water. So maybe that's also part
of why I you're not supposed to stay too close
to it all the time.

Speaker 3 (55:55):
Yeah, right, it starts to become that sense of background
noise that you don't recognize. It anything off the water. Yeah,
I mean that makes perfect sense to me. Like I said,
I'm not a I'm not Aragorn or anything. I can't
do do any kind of that level of tracking. But
that makes a ton of sense in terms of, you know,
the survival aspect. I don't you guys tell me as usual.
I'm a digital guy, so I'm not gonna You're not
gonna see me in the forest anytime soon because I

(56:17):
live in the desert by But yeah, exactly. But anyway,
seven two nine five seven ones your three seven click
to discord like a trouble mindes dot Org. We'll put
you on the show just like this. Let's go to Derrick, Massachusetts,
the night Stocker. What's up man, Welcome to the joint.
How you doing to night chilling? Not doing the thing?
Kicking out Spookie season. I guess we're we're doing it.
It's it's time. Is that it's cooling down a little bit.

(56:37):
James has got his heater on, so let's roll. What's
up in your mind? My man?

Speaker 6 (56:42):
It's a time of the year in Boston where it's
like a thirty degree swing from uh from like daytime
to the to the morning time or like to the
the middle of the night. So as a night worker
experience like four different seasons over here, you know, So
I love it.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
I love hello. Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 5 (56:56):
I love the August nights.

Speaker 6 (56:57):
But as far as like Beard to Halloween type stuff
we've had, we have a seasonal lot, like if anyone
has seen me sucking or whatever. Sometimes the discord the
other half of the water asle is the seasonal aisle.
So they got rid of the summer stuff like August first.
So I've been at least like an hour of my night.
I've been living in Halloween town every night. Basically it
seems crazy earlier though, but wat show it's in it

(57:19):
well stuff.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
Thank you? Our demon's real? And would you find them
along the river shutout rivers?

Speaker 6 (57:25):
Yeah, shutout rivers? Yeah. So I've talked a ton about that.
I mean the river portals idea, like that they set there.
They're kind of the jacqulade John Key window weary idea,
like these hot spots and stuff are centered around rivers.
Is kind of like these or source waters in particular,
so like springs and wells have this kind of like

(57:46):
cosmic Internet type of capacity where energy moves along like
on our two D on our three plane water add
energy does move around via rivers and stuff, and I
think on other planes, other water does have the same
similar effect. And this is a long, long thing, so
I won't get into all that, but I think the
fact that like streams and rivers and shutvers are like

(58:07):
peppering all these forest areas suff like contribute steward and.

Speaker 5 (58:09):
Stuff and all these waterways.

Speaker 6 (58:10):
And now they find it especially interesting that it actually
got a shout out there, you know, into that like
quote to the to the seat idea quote like he
says that that it's very much alive around the edges
and pray when entering the forest.

Speaker 5 (58:24):
So you already mentioned it. Those are two like liminal.

Speaker 6 (58:26):
Area suggestions that the same way you guys did the
show about liminal areas, like closets or how kind of
dogs will stop at doorways that don't even have doors
on it that they can kind of sense to the
liminal area, or even like people with like like autism
and stuff, when they go from one environment to the next,
there's kind of a sensory change. Contec can be overwhelming
for certain people. And the same thing when people are

(58:48):
on psychedelics. If you go from one room to the
next with like a whole different experience and stuff. So
we kind of kind of have to use your way
into whatever so that passing through one threshold to the
next does something to our consciousness or whatever. And then
so entering the forest, we'll do something automatically, and then
how many direst holds to cross when we're in the forest,
you know or probably know what threshold could be considered

(59:09):
like a different change of scenery or just two trees
that are in some kind of threshold shape or all
we know, And just I got a ton of ideas,
but what do you think what that just to begin?

Speaker 15 (59:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (59:17):
Absolutely, And the threshold stuff is is so bizarre to
me that I want to test this, like I wanted,
Like I was thinking about it. I'm like, okay, if
if I had, if I could set up the studio anyway,
I wanted to right if I Again, I'm not rich,
but if I was, I was thinking I would kind
of want to have like multiple archways set up that
I had to walk through to get in here to

(59:37):
do this, and then also when I walk out of here,
as maybe the church, yeah yeah, like a cathedral or
like or like Karnak, like ancient Karnak in Egypt. I mean,
there's there's a lot of those, those like sort of
multiple threshold you know, one after the other after the
other after the other. And I do wonder if you
sort of scientifically test that, especially when we do stuff

(59:59):
like that, because you know, I wouldn't call it necessarily
we're you know, working magic here or anything, but I
would say that we are sort of trying to expand
our mind space and at least that just sort of
as a mental exercise. Again once again, you know, you
believe what you want. I don't care. I'm not here
to make that case of what's real and what isn't.
But as long as we're sort of expanding that mental space,

(01:00:23):
I do wonder if you know, you could test something
like that where I don't know, maybe it messes me up,
maybe I can't be me, you know what I mean?
If I have to walk through five thresholds to get
in here to do this, wouldn't that be wild? Who knows?
But just an idea coming through as you brought that up.

Speaker 6 (01:00:40):
Or if you like, do you figure out some patterns
you can tweak it and stuff, and maybe that's what
these cathedrals and things are doing. They figured it out
all the tweaks, so they can put different symbols and
different like things on the arctu ways that kind of
act as like code. So walk to this one activates this,
walk to the next thing activates this, and by the
time you get to where you want to go, you're
ready to conduct to the mass of trouble minds, you know, thinfully,
maybe that's maybe that's.

Speaker 4 (01:00:59):
A whole like.

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
That sounds that way.

Speaker 6 (01:01:04):
In the best way possible, you know, but like the sorry,
I just my headphones you can hear hear sorry, okay,
sorry sorry yeah. So and then these dresholds are like
in multiple capacities too, so we have the like the archways,
like the visual kind of threshold, and they also have these,
uh look at these liminal areas, like we talk about

(01:01:27):
marshal land and swamp lands and wetlands are considered to
be these liminal areas because on our plane, that's where
water and land are like meeting and mingling together and
merging together, so that on other planes of reality, those
are also where other realms of meetings and stuff so
play in marshal lands wetlands are considered to be places
where there's a lot of activity.

Speaker 5 (01:01:45):
So New Orleans is on a swamp. It's very mystical
part of the country.

Speaker 6 (01:01:48):
DC they call it the swamp, but it's literally on
a swamp and obviously very mystical and stuff. So those
liminal areas that way, same way with kind of like steam.
It's talking about the kind of air and air and
water mixing in this in the same way. So passing
all these different types of limital of areas could be
doing something doing something to us. And then just the

(01:02:10):
way it's kind of I've been talking about it, and
it makes me almost seem like it's the ocean a
little bit, like the similar feeling to when you're swimming
in the ocean.

Speaker 5 (01:02:17):
Or like a big lake that you don't know what's
underneath your feet.

Speaker 6 (01:02:20):
Kind of has this kind of weird thing where you know,
you're almost like entering like some other food chain kind
of like you you know, you're like you're entering a game.
You're entering you're entering the playing field that normally you
wouldn't be on if you're walking on the street, or
like I guess if you're walking down the street of
a danger street or in the middle of the night
where you gotta be on guard. But you're sitting any
couch or whatever. You know, you're not in the playing field.

(01:02:41):
You're not in the game. You're not you're essentially outside
of the food chain, so to speak. But when you
are swimming in the ocean, you're painfully aware of that
you're not you're you're playing in that game.

Speaker 5 (01:02:50):
Now you're now, you're in now a link on that
food chain.

Speaker 6 (01:02:52):
And think the same thing kind of happens when you're
when you're in the court, Like you can't see what's
around you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
You can't.

Speaker 6 (01:02:57):
There's all kind of different conscious of things that are happening.
Just it's all the we're trying to Like you're a
if you're in like a big open area, you can
see everything that's around you, but it is an obstacles
that are in your way, and this forest is infinite opposite.
You can't see like in the Pacific Northwest, you can't
even see like thirty feet ahead of so many opposites
and stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:03:13):
So that it's doing all kinds of tricks of the mind.
And then the ultimate trick of.

Speaker 6 (01:03:16):
The mind is realizing that now you have to be
on guard because you are prey now to something, and
then you're talking about how like how quiet it is,
how quiet the woods are, which is true, but it's
like a certain type of quiet.

Speaker 5 (01:03:29):
It's like people quiet or people noise.

Speaker 4 (01:03:31):
Quiet, like the cars cars aren't going on are.

Speaker 6 (01:03:33):
Different, like manmade noises that we've been used to this
like human white noise is quiet, so that's something we
think get used to whatever, but it's there's an animal noise,
and like if plants are scenting in and having thoughts,
there's plant noise and stuff, and that's probably the most apparent.
And like Lord of the Rings where they give these
things personality and mouths and stuff, and they're talking to you.

(01:03:55):
So you're very much aware that when you're walking into
there's other domain, your guest and somebody.

Speaker 5 (01:04:00):
Else's house basically whatever.

Speaker 6 (01:04:02):
But it could be kind of the same thing where
you're like walking through a crowded mall of people of
not people above Indians that are like thinking about you
and stuff, you know, So it's like things that are
watching you. It's a feeling of being watched because you
are literally being watched.

Speaker 5 (01:04:18):
I mean, we.

Speaker 6 (01:04:18):
Science has kind of figured out that when you're walking
into an environment of the plants. The plants all kind
of warn each other, so there's like a natural like
biology mechanism where they're telling each other that you're around,
so they are reacting to you in some capacity and
then more woo woo. If they're just sentient and having
thoughts and stuff, then they're just like, oh, what's the
walking walking through? You know, they're like like this somebody

(01:04:39):
who's walking through. If somebody just rarely walked through your
living room, you would you would at least be like,
huh yeah, really.

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):
Yeah, absolutely, I'm going to read this to you because
this is a pertinence exactly what you just said. And
this is in the title of the show that reciprocal perception.
Check this out. This is wild. So that community we're
talking about isn't with spirits, but with ecosystems so complex
that conscious analysis falters. The which following you through the
forest might be your subconscious tracking the subtle behavior changes

(01:05:09):
of unseen predators. As Derek was saying, the demons are
real because danger genuinely inhabits these spaces informs. Your city
trained mind lacks frameworks to process directly. And here's the
part The anthropologist David Abram documented how indigenous hunters could
track animals across seemingly barren ground by entering what he

(01:05:29):
called reciprocal perception, a state where the boundary between observer
and landscape dissolves. Contemporary long distance hikers stumble into similar
states accidentally, usually during their darkest moments of exhaustion or disorientation,
when their analytical minds finally surrender control. But that's the
term again, an anthropologist David Abram, reciprocal perception, and it

(01:05:54):
also brings to mind. I don't know if you've seen
that Lord of the Rings are you're a big fan there,
Remember when Aragorn's tracking the orcs across this barren plane
and Gimley's like, oh yeah, he's like what do you say?
I can't remember that the exact quote, but he's but
you know, nothing but what rocks can tell or something
like that, Like he doesn't see any tracks at all,
and Aragorn's like, he's he's locked into this and being

(01:06:15):
able to track them anyway, even though they're not really
leaving tracks per se. But that that's exactly the term
is receparacle perception with the landscape anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 6 (01:06:25):
Like almost kind of like like cracking. How the landscape
reacts to what you're cracking basically kind of like it's
not leaving footprints.

Speaker 5 (01:06:31):
But you can kind of see the you can kind
of like listen, like listen to.

Speaker 6 (01:06:35):
The rocks whispered basically, or like when I was walking,
I was, I was just pupping my head. But when
we have to like bring out all like we have
to break down the truck out back and turn it
into these all mixed up palettes into like organized U
boats by aisles. So there's like three of us walking
each one from the hot from the from the back
to the front, and we always kind of like run
into each other because on the space for us all
to grow and called do it once, and one's coming in,

(01:06:57):
one's coming out. So I looked to the person ahead
of me because I had I'm carrying them like the
machinery or whatever I got to I'll get the polo track.
I'm like, I can tell if there're somebody else is
kind of coming around the corner based on if the
person ahead of me looks up or not pretty much.
So I been able to like tell Parler that's all
the point of my environment where I couldn't actually see

(01:07:19):
if somebody was there or not.

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
I was.

Speaker 6 (01:07:21):
I was able to gauge the reaction of the person
in front of me. So how many of those little
reactions are are we doing some like subconsciously and trackers
aware of them, like kind of pick up the the
sounds of the birds or whatever, the kind of the
see how the see how like the you're not tracking
the thing you're tracking kind of the shadow, the imprint
the thing kind of leaves behind. That makes any sense,

(01:07:42):
kind of like the interactions that this thing is happening
with the environment, like that makes sense kind of.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
Yeah, like photography we were talking about on the last
year shout out Eric, Yeah, so I found the quote.
So Gimli's complaining because they're they're they're chasing him, no food,
no water, twenty four hours, just run, run, run, run,
And he says, no sign of our quarry, but what
bare rock can tell and somehow Aragorn's tracking it anyway,
which is amazing.

Speaker 5 (01:08:06):
Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker 6 (01:08:07):
Uh yeah, it's crazy, Like you can track like the
way the like tracking tracking hid me tracking the way
like the plants are bending away from them almost sort
of thing like I'm not I'm not checking the person's
coming around the corner and tracking the way the person
in front of me is bending bending away from that
person or whatever, like uh whatever, But like so you're
walking into potentially crowded environment and crowded with like life

(01:08:29):
that we know of. But then also could people walking
into crowded like like you talk about fromarial nature, spirits
and stuff elementals of our whole separate food chain. That's
things that are super like a supernatural food chain or
paranormal food chain that we don't even have necessarily paramis
for it. We have some we're trying to figure it out,
but just walking through another playing field that things could
potentially be watching us. We have like a like a

(01:08:51):
non human audience. Basically, it could be a weird feeling,
you know, at the same way like when you dip
into the when you're like coming off the boat and evocean,
and as soon as you go into the water, it
could be like nothing around.

Speaker 5 (01:09:02):
You're going to see a new fans.

Speaker 6 (01:09:03):
You look into the water, nothing really there, but you
know as soon as you go in there, everyone, everyone else,
everything in there knows you're there. You know, like you're
you're at their whoms basically, and then with like with
this non human audience, I feel like this is something
we were with that so could be some kind of
like observer effects like quantum aspect happening, where like if

(01:09:25):
the tree falls in the forest and nobody's around to hear,
it doesn't make.

Speaker 5 (01:09:28):
A noise and stuff.

Speaker 6 (01:09:29):
That's something about how we kind of like, I don't
know the way we are kind of rendering reality that
if humans are absent from an environment, it allows kind
of like chaos to kind of brew in this place
kind of this like I don't know. And then potentially
if there's another type of consciousness that can have an
observer effect on reality, that we're not walking into an

(01:09:51):
empty place where we're the only observer. We're walking into
a place where there's tons of different consciousnesses in there.
That could be like just giving you some type of
like orphic fields feeling if somebody is looking at you,
type of thing on the back of your neck. What
could also be like impacting the actual environment by making
it just weird, you know, like why are deep We're
just like we just I don't know, it's weird in

(01:10:11):
the air because no where humans, human consciousness is no
longer the primary observer having the observer effect in this environment.
We're talking into an environment now that's being controlled by
more another dominant form of consciousness, whether it's because it's
more of them, does a bunch of trees and stuff
versus like a few people or who knows what you know.
I'm just gonna kind of can keep a want of that.

(01:10:33):
I can't really explain, but.

Speaker 3 (01:10:34):
You're getting getting into the back to Tolkien, the the
ends of Fangoring Forest, the ancient Yeah, yeah, yeah, do they.

Speaker 5 (01:10:40):
Have an observer effect and stuff?

Speaker 6 (01:10:42):
And if that's the case, like like then all then
I don't know they're having any bigger impact on the environment.
So we have some kind of non human consciousness rendering
an environment. So I'm it's just gonna seem really weird
and foreign to us, and then it definitely does something
to our consciousness and it shifts us in a way
the same way like they tell you, like you said,
to touch grass, like it's to go into nature to

(01:11:03):
kind of like get off the cobwebs or whatever the
atrophy that happens to you or any like the kind
of societal gunk that's build up when you're like living
in civilization and to kind of wipe, wipe that away.
But I think maybe if you like wipe all the
gunk away and then you keep wiping a wiping, you
become like a different being. Where we talk about grasshoppers

(01:11:23):
to turn into locus or domesticated pigs will turn into
feral hogs, and human beings potentially will turn into feral
humans like very talked about it. But it might literally
transform us into like the wild man archetype of legend
and stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:11:35):
So it's like paint.

Speaker 6 (01:11:37):
So it's like in the way same way it calms us,
it might it might give us this different type of
feral anxiety, the way a squirrel has when you see,
like this squirrel is not in any immediate danger when
it's turning around my yard, but it doesn't know that
things pretty anxious and stuff and for aball, you know,
I'm a giant monster to it. It doesn't know that
I'm a human sitting there smoking watching it or whatever.
It things like what's this giant monster? Like get out

(01:11:58):
of here, Like if it moves, I'm running, you know.
And then the feral mindset could extend to like just
society in general. That like James, we do the show
on the midst and now as soon as like people
start to realize that survival is now in their immediate future,
they have to start thinking about how they're going to survive.
There's the kind of the guardrails of society break down.

(01:12:19):
Then everything turns into a monster. People start turning into monsters.
People could become like demons, like like they had literal
monsters that were storming the store, but also the people
inside became cultish and monsterish and their most base instincts
kind of like once as soon as you realize that
your survival is not guaranteed, and every shadow and footstep

(01:12:41):
becomes a monster shadow and footsteps as soon as anything
anybody does becomes the worst possible scenario, So that that
is a shift in our consciousness.

Speaker 5 (01:12:50):
I got one thing to read here, but anything.

Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
On that, Yeah, I think that's a that's brilliant because
the survival aspect, and you know, they talk about sort
of the weirdness of society, how we're we're fooling ourselves
into that sort of false sense of safety, you know,
like the cops are just around the corner. They've got
to save you. But I mean, let's not look at
the statistics on some of that. But anyway, I feel

(01:13:13):
exactly what you're saying because we we are definitely off
of our chain when it comes to that that sense
of safety because it's on us, it's literally on us.
And uh yeah. Instead, when you're out there there, no joke,
no doubt, you're not going to get a cop show
up randomly to help you against the bear or whatever.

Speaker 5 (01:13:33):
Not happening exactly is my internet? Okay, am I am?
I coming in dropping.

Speaker 3 (01:13:39):
No, you're good, no problem, not not one, You're good.

Speaker 5 (01:13:45):
I have one thing here.

Speaker 6 (01:13:47):
You're talking about Appleastria, and I found one thing from
the site what pad dot com and just the rules
of Appalastria. I was talking about the woods, some superstitions
and stuff, and there's five rules here which I've heard before.
I wanted to get a clear clear thing Appleatcha that
the cool podcasts like a love Craftian type podcast called
the It's like a like a narrative like a drama
audio drama called the Oldly Old Old Gods of Appalachia,

(01:14:09):
which is like really it's really really cool, and it's
basically like like the Appalachian Mountains are the oldest land mass,
basically like unchanged land mass like where play tectonics hasn't
really affected or whatever on the whole planet.

Speaker 5 (01:14:19):
Basically, if there is something essentially.

Speaker 6 (01:14:21):
Like it's so so so old that like the when
when when it's all about like the miners and stuff,
when they were digging down into the earth, they were
digging down into the into the into the oldest bones
of the planet. They were digging, digging into these ancient
memories and these ancient things that have been unchained for
and s love crafty in times. Basically it is kind
of shifts it in my mind, and then people who
live there. Basically obviously depends on where you are, but

(01:14:41):
I think essentially if you live in on the kind
of the outskirts of these woods, then it doesn't You
don't have to have a oh I believe in the
paranormal or I like the paranormal type mindset. It's just
these are just the rules, like don't say after dark,
like don't stuck, don't talk to strangers, check your candy
for rais of blades.

Speaker 2 (01:14:55):
Or whatever like.

Speaker 6 (01:14:56):
And if you live in that palacha, you have a
different set of rules or they are. One never be
in the woods from dust till dawn. Two never leave
the marked trail. It's marked for a reason.

Speaker 5 (01:15:06):
Three.

Speaker 6 (01:15:07):
If you hear voices close to you, they're they're far away.
But if the voices are are far far away, uh,
then they're near.

Speaker 5 (01:15:14):
Maybe.

Speaker 6 (01:15:15):
If you hear a voice of close to you, then
they're far away. If you hear a versus far away,
then they're near you. And if the voices are saying
your name and do not answer them, do not whistle
or sing in the woods. And never and if you're
like living on the outskirts of the woods, if your
house is like boarding the woods, never look too hard
into the trees.

Speaker 5 (01:15:30):
You might not like what you see.

Speaker 6 (01:15:32):
So they treat this this thing like obviously, like it's
a populated with danger and stuff, danger that has a
power that humans can't even really grasp and wrap our
mind around. And we're kind of just like avoid it.
Don't do this, don't mention skinwalker because it's gonna come.
Type of a type of five. Don't say to buld
the more because it'll bring it around, type of a
cup of five. But more so, like this is like

(01:15:53):
ancient and powerful. We don't get it, don't mess with
it to to the percent of like it's almost like
an organism solmost like a don't don't poke the bear
to the bear, a living of the woods, as like
a living abyss that humans have, like master and dislike domesticate.
We've we've mapped in catalog the playpen, the sandbox that

(01:16:14):
we live in or whatever, but we have no clue
what this vast ocean of darkness potentially, and it's a
whole nother playing field basically, it's kind of the sense
that I get from that.

Speaker 3 (01:16:22):
Like a thlu of the forest. He's everywhere. You can't
shake him, not not just in the ocean, the deep,
the deep Pacific, but also the deep woods. He's watching.

Speaker 5 (01:16:33):
That's all I got there, Christ.

Speaker 3 (01:16:35):
Appreciate you very much. James, what you got anything to
add to that? And we got about a minute left
if you got anything?

Speaker 11 (01:16:41):
Yeah, great, Coffin, Derek, there's a whole The Mist or
Fog gets a whole phenomenon of all kinds of paranormal
beings appearing or disappearing in in in the mister Fog
or around it or nearround the same time. Also, yeah,
the movie The Mist is crazy because it is it's
not just the creatures that.

Speaker 12 (01:17:02):
Are outside the building.

Speaker 11 (01:17:04):
It is the sort of this one person in this
store that has all these ideas about what the It's
almost like a dooms There, a populypse idea where this
one person in the store has is taking everything that's
happening as signs and they're trying to save everyone in
their mind, and of course they were willing to do

(01:17:25):
terrible things to do that to certain people that they
don't agree with. So it's very a well done story
and it's a great reference. So yeah, that's a great
call from Derek.

Speaker 3 (01:17:35):
Yeah, good stuff. Derek is the man. Give him a fall.
Troubleminds dot org Ford Size Friends. The night Stalker is
where you will find him. It's alphabetical school down a
little bit. Go check out his YouTube channel and go
say hi, Go tell him you enjoy his contributions and
his ideas because he is he's been doing this so
longer than I have. And these brilliance nice talker YouTube

(01:18:00):
s t O c K e R Trouble Minds dot
org Fortside Friends, go give them the follow we're talking, Uh,
well we're ringing in spooky season. I guess I didn't
realize that's what we're doing, but that's what we're doing.
We're right back. More Trouble Minds on the Way. We
got Michael W. Joey. E're up next. If you want
to jump back in, I'm not sure if you're listening
out there, get in here. Love to hear your gut,
your thoughts. More trouble Minds on the way. Thanks for
being pat you guys, be right back. Welcome back, say

(01:18:42):
Trouble Mind's. I'm your host, Michael Strange. We're streaming on YouTube,
rumble x, Twitch and Kick. We are broadcasting live on
the Trouble Minds Radio Network. That's ku AP Digital Broadcasting
and of course AY eight point four FM Auckland, New Zealand. Tonight,
we're taking your calls as we go back to the well,
back to the Paramember Well. We're so can the haunted
forest hiker. Folklore and reciprocal perception, which is a complicated term,

(01:19:07):
by the way. It means sort of this reciprocal perception
with nature itself and being able to sort of detach
from the modern space, touch grass, grounding, all the rest
of that, but sort of really become one with our
feral self. Now, I know that sounds like a really
crude way to put it, but it's really what this is,
and so what does it mean? I don't look, I

(01:19:28):
don't know. I don't know other than I'll read you
the definition one more time, which is super cool. It is,
let's see where is it. The anthropologist David Abram documented
how indigenous hunters could track animals across seemingly barren ground
by entering what he called reciprocal perception, a reciprocal perception state,
a state where the boundary between observer and landscape dissolves.

(01:19:50):
And we cited that as part of that Lord of
the Rings tracking Aragorn, tracking the pack of orcs that
had the twos with just what Baron Rock could tell.
And interestingly, these are concepts that go way back for
us and way back conceptually and way back to our

(01:20:12):
intuition space. And that's the point of this kind of
looking at this and wondering what we've missed as part
of the human aspect. Like I always say, it's important
to me to not forget the old ways, and what
we're talking about tonight is certainly the old ways, and
including of course the Haunted Force itself. Anything James, and
then we'll go to Michael w and Joey was here
for a second he put his hand up and he dipped.
Get in here, Joey, if you're still listening, get in here.

(01:20:34):
We'll put you on with Michael W. We'll get get
you both on it. And you know you've both waited
a long time. Go ahead, James, if you got anything else,
and then I'm going to bringing to Michael W on
the stage right now.

Speaker 12 (01:20:43):
Yeah, just I wanted to mention the plans.

Speaker 11 (01:20:46):
That is a whole other kind of I do agree,
it's a whole other kind of awareness. And I think
Derek is heard about that that you're just show out
numbered when you're out there, and I mean they're everywhere.
I mean you could even consider the grass whatever that
you're walking in. But I've found there's one account I
found years ago of people that they were so in

(01:21:08):
tune with energy and nature they were able to see
like waves of light of energy coming up from the
ground from a tree and going up to the top
and dispersing. And so if that's happening and we just
don't see it and they can they're aware of us,

(01:21:28):
then that really is fascinating. And no wonder people feel
watched when they're out there. So yeah, that's about it
for now, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
One hundred percent. I'm sure there's tons of stuff happening
that just because we don't see it, we can't measure
it directly. In that complicated system, the complex system I'm
always talking about, there's a lot of spooky stuff going
on that we probably won't figure out for a very
long time. Seven or two nine, five, seven, one three seven.
Thanks for being patient, my friend. Let's go to Michael W.
White like the ghost on discord. How are you looking good?

(01:21:57):
I hope you're feeling good.

Speaker 14 (01:21:58):
I'm doing good.

Speaker 12 (01:22:00):
Can you hear me?

Speaker 15 (01:22:00):
Good? Yep?

Speaker 3 (01:22:01):
Land Clerk comings were great?

Speaker 14 (01:22:02):
Okay, So I have a I don't know, I have
I feel like a nuanced and I hope not argumentative
opinion about this stuff. I feel like there's levels to
what we're talking about, you know how there's like like
when it comes to sports, there's there's PE, and there's
junior high, and there's high school, and there's college, and
there's D one and there's pro sports, you know, and

(01:22:24):
not everybody can move on to the next level. You know,
in that regard, there's levels to what we're talking about here.
And what I mean by that is like I was
born in Tacoma, Washington, a pretty pretty big city for Washington,
you know. I think there's a couple million people that's
between there in Seattle. But I lived in a suburb

(01:22:46):
of Tacoma, and it's in the Pacific Northwest, and you're
actually really close to some pretty rural areas. There's a
lot of farmland mixed in there, and there's a lot
of there's a lot of there was in the in
the eighties and early nineties. There was a lot of
undeveloped land in there and it was spattered with timber

(01:23:12):
or what we called the woods when I was a kid,
but it was acreage. It was like five acres, ten acres,
fifty acres if you were lucky, you know, to find
something like that to explore. But as around the age
of eleven, I moved to North Idaho where I live
now and I live in so I live in Moscow, Idaho,

(01:23:35):
which is kind of on the border between the police region,
which is wheat fields, but on the other side it's
timber lands. It's mostly companies that own thousands and thousands
and thousands of acres of timber where they you know,
they cut down, you know, logging companies and so when

(01:23:56):
I say there's levels to this thing. When I lived
into Kombe as a little kid, I would have a
couple of acres at a time to explore that I
called the woods. Then I moved here to Idaho, and
now I have hundreds of thousands of acres to explore
that I call the woods. Right, that's kind of a
next level. But there's still like loggers scrambling around in there.

(01:24:17):
You know, there's there's people there. Not a lot, but
there's people there. And sometimes you know, loggers will talk
about hearing weird things or seeing weird things, or you know,
in in Tacoma and those little and those little spatterings
of woods and Tacoma, we didn't see bears, we didn't
see lions, you know, But here in Idaho you see

(01:24:39):
those things. Like people are a lot of my friends
hunt those things where I live here, where I you know,
I try once a week to go on a hike
out in the woods here and in those places, that's
where people hunt bears and lions, and you know, mountain
lions is what I'm talking about. And on the other

(01:25:01):
side of that timber land where I live, all the
logging companies, you know, all those people that harvest logs
and the hundreds of thousands of acres that they it's
basically a giant crop of trees, you know. That's where
we get our timber. That's where we get our lumber,
you know, for people to build houses with. Right on

(01:25:22):
the other side of that is the next level. When
I say there's levels to this thing, the next level
is the wilderness where there's not people logging. A lot
of it is conservation, like the frank Church Wilderness or
the Low Low National Forests, the Clearwater National Forest. That's

(01:25:44):
kind of the next level. There's not loggers scrambling around
up there cutting down trees and pulling trees out and
planting new ones all the time. There's a lot less
people in those areas. And some people will argue that
that's the same as like a national park. I think
they're slightly different. I think wilderness is slightly different than

(01:26:06):
national park, slightly different because people don't so much go
to visit it as a tourist destination. It's only a
slight difference. But I'm sure we've talked about on this
show in the past, how that there's that phenomena where
you can take the map of missing people and lay
it over the top of the map of national parks

(01:26:27):
and cave systems, and it kind of is the same footprint.
That's a weird phenomena. And I think that that has
something to do with sticking to the trails in the
national parks, Like there's places like that.

Speaker 3 (01:26:45):
Like Derek read the rules about the Appalachians, right, you
have to stick to the trails or else.

Speaker 2 (01:26:50):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:26:50):
This is the type of thing, the disorientation effect of
you know, you get turned around in the woods and
don't have any direct actual landmarks that the eye can see.
You can be screwed if you don't know what the
hell you're doing. If you if you don't know how
to find the sun and you know the direction you
came from. Even if you don't know the director north south, east, west,
that type of stuff, and you came from the east,

(01:27:11):
even finding the sun is no help to you because
you don't know which direction you came from. Like that's
the type of like survival mechanisms we have built into
us as modern humans, which is ridiculous because because again
going back into several hundred years, everybody knew otherwise you
would get lost and get eaten by mountain lion or whatever, right,
I mean, that's just the way it was.

Speaker 14 (01:27:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a and there's a I mean,
I guess there's a few things I want to talk
about that, you know, those are I wanted to point
out that there's those levels to things, and like I like,
like I said, I came from Tacoma when I was
a little kid, and in those woods in Tacoma, the

(01:27:51):
only thing that that you had to be afraid of,
which I was all the time, was people like who
you keep asking are demons real? Do the demons exist
in the woods in Tacoma. The demons are people that
there's bad people that want to do bad things to

(01:28:16):
other innocent people, you know. And I guess if you
can think of that as the demon, Yes, demons exist,
But in the woods in Tacoma, it was people here
where I live, Yeah, there's bears and lions, but I've
lived here for over twenty years, and I, like I said,
I go for a hike in these woods. I try

(01:28:36):
to do it once a week where those bears and
lions exist. And I've seen a handful of bears. I've
never hunted them. I've never hunted lions either. And I've
actually never seen any lions here. Even though, like I
have a lot of friends who do hunt them here
and they kill them on a regular basis, I've never

(01:28:56):
seen one here. And even though I on a regular
basis go and go for walks in the places where
they live, I find the kills that they leave behind,
and I've seen their tracks and things like that. I'm
sure they see me, but I guess they're not interested
in eating me so far. But here, I guess here

(01:29:24):
it's different than when I was a little kid in
Tacoma and my mom told me don't talk to strangers
in the woods. You know, I don't feel like people
are the demons here. I don't feel like there are
demons here. I think if demons are something, and I'm
talking about on a supernatural level, if there are, I
don't know if you want to call them interdimensional or

(01:29:46):
supernatural or you know, whatever we're thinking of as these
monsters that we're going to call demons. I've never met
one in the woods that, at least on the level
I mean. I've I've seen things via psychedelics that I
can't explain, but I've never just been walking in the

(01:30:06):
woods in all my years and had a problem with
a demon. I don't think they're here. I think if
there is something that we would articulate as a demon
that is interested in hurting people, it's going to go
where all the people are, like the bars.

Speaker 3 (01:30:26):
Yeah, I was about to say, so, you're more likely
to find a demon in like the back alley behind
a bar in a big city than you are to
find one sort of out there in nature. I was
thinking it exactly as you said it. I was like, yeah, okay,
I'm with you, with you, I'm with you, and I agree, like, yes,
can people be demonic and evil to the core? Absolutely

(01:30:47):
one percent? So I'm with you there, like if there's
a nuance to that conversation, And again, it depends on
what you believe, as always, and that's why this stuff
is important to kind of point out is this real?
Is this not real? And where do we to sit
with it? Not just in the conversation, but you personally,
not just you, you, but everybody out there that listens
to this. You personally, where do you sit with it?

(01:31:08):
And yeah, yeah, wild stuff and great points, go ahead,
what else you got.

Speaker 14 (01:31:16):
I don't want to sound like I'm perfectly comfortable in
the woods. I spend a lot of time in the woods,
but I also get freaked out a lot in the woods. Again,
I don't I can't put my finger on it exactly
why we I can't remember who. Maybe it was Derek
that was talking about the threshold phenomenon there is, And

(01:31:38):
I've talked to a lot of other people that that
that I would spend time with together fellowship in the
woods where there's there is this threshold phenomena, And for me,
the way it would occur is invisible. I would be
walking down a trail and it was a feeling that
would have hit me like that, where all of a sudden,

(01:32:00):
I know, for god dang certain that I just crossed
over something and it feels dangerous in a way that
I'm in danger of not being able to go back
the way I came. Obviously, I'm still here, you know.
I don't know why I got those feelings, But I've

(01:32:23):
talked to a lot of other people that experienced the
same things, and I've been with people where we experience
it together and it's and it's a very real feeling.
I don't. I don't know how to describe it. But
it's like when you talk about that threshold phenomena, that's
what it is. And like I said, for me, it's invisible.

(01:32:43):
Now there's this place that I like to go to,
Like the place that I like to go to that
I try to go to once a week is in
the woods, about half an hour from where I live,
and it's a place where a ton of U trees grow.
I don't know if you're familiar with you trees, but

(01:33:04):
they're one of the they're one of the trees that
lives a very very long time. There's some in Europe
there a thousands, like five thousand years old, and they're
associated with druid magic. You know that goes back a
long ways in Europe, of.

Speaker 3 (01:33:18):
Course, I know. I learned about them in Ultima Online,
by the way, just kidding there you go, only kind
of just kidding, but yeah, absolutely no ancient ancient truth magic.
But yeah, go ahead, that's already interrupt.

Speaker 14 (01:33:29):
Yeah, well we have them here too in the Pacific Northwest.
We have a Pacific yew tree and it's the same
it lives thousands and thousands of years. And there's actually
one that I visit on a regular basis that the
diameter of the trunk is over two feet. And if
you're if you've ever read about U trees, the if
everybody knows how the rings inside the tree indicate how

(01:33:49):
many years old it is. Well, the rings inside of
a U tree can be sixty to eighty rings per inch.
So if a if a U tree is two inches
in Diana, that tree can be eighty years old. So
there's this one that I visit that is two feet
in diameter, So do the math. I don't know how
old this tree is, but this is the one tree

(01:34:12):
in the world that I actually hug. I visit it
on a regular basis. Around this yew tree, tons and
tons of other U trees grow. I guess you would
call it a U grove. It's a grove of yew
trees interspersed with hemlock and pines and other things like that.
But when I go to this place and explore this place,

(01:34:32):
it's not enormous. It's in this Clearwater National Forest that's
also mixed with logging country. But this place messes with
my head. And this is something I've heard. I don't
know if I read it somewhere, if I've heard other
people talk about it, but like a magic associated with
groves of U trees. When I go to this place,

(01:34:57):
it messes with my head. It's like I'm It's like
I'm a plane flying into the Bermuda Triangle. And you
know how planes get lost in the Bermuda Triangle. You know,
they just can't seem to keep their bearings. That's what
it's like when I explore this place and I'm not
going far. I'm going one hundred yards, one hundred and

(01:35:18):
fifty yards, two hundred yards, and then I'm lost. And
every time I focus on actually using the U trees
as markers to find my way back, when I do
is this is a place that I've been exploring for
ten years, closer to twenty years, and I go back
every year, and I keep exploring it, and I use

(01:35:40):
these U trees as markers. But it's a weird thing
that I experience when I go in there that doesn't
make any sense. How it's somebody might as well have
put a bag over my head and spun me in
a circle and whacked me a couple of times or something.
How I lose my bearings when I'm in this place.
I don't know if that's kind of related to the

(01:36:01):
threshold phenomena. But I remember also James talking about the
fog effect. And this is the place that I go
to hunt big game every year, and every year, inevitably
that time of year it gets socked in with fog,
and that is terrifying. I go in there at two

(01:36:24):
in the morning and I wait for the sun to
come up, but it doesn't because the fog rolls in,
and so many times it's it's like somebody put a
like I'm in a place that I've been hundreds of
times before, but I'm lost because of the fog. And
all I can do is sit and wait, and the

(01:36:46):
shivering cold water just running down me, shivering like a jackhammer.
And all I can do is just endure the cold
and sit and wait and for the fog to lift,
because if I try to find my way out in
the fog, I'm going to be lost.

Speaker 3 (01:37:05):
Totally. Anyway, I've been peppering in J. R. R. Tolkien
sings all night. Here's another one, Gandalf going into the
minds of Maria and he puts the uh, the little
crystal on the top of his staff and lights it up,
and he's he's looking around and he says, I have
no memory of this place, like even though he's been
there a long time ago, it's changed so much and

(01:37:25):
the energy is so different. Even the the archetypal wizard
is like, I don't know where I'm at brose Wild
Wild and that decly fits with the mists. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:37:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 14 (01:37:38):
Well, I think I think I talked about everything I
had to say those I guess I just wanted to
share my experiences. That's sorry. It was kind of disjointed
and scattered, but those are my experiences with all this stuff.
And and and oh, I guess I did want to
say about the about the sleeping by a stream. I
love doing that. I'm extremely comfort spending the night on

(01:38:01):
the edge of running water. But maybe that's because I'm
a Pisces.

Speaker 15 (01:38:05):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:38:07):
As a shout out fellow pisces, Yeah, yeah, it could be.
And I think so. When we were young too, we
go up to Yosemite and camp, you know, kind of
in the in those hills up there, and we would
always camp buy the water. But again, there's a road there,
there's campgrounds, you know what I mean. So it's it's
way different, like you said, sort of that hierarchy of
wilderness that if you're way out there, I would think

(01:38:30):
that that stream is going to be comforting because at
least you know direction wise where you're at because you
can follow it right. But then also, like we were saying,
if there's some sort of a you know, kind of
maybe a predator hunting you, like like a mountain lion
or something, then it hears you. I mean it's going
to anyway, but you can't hear it. So there's there's

(01:38:51):
that aspect of being too close to the stream for
too long. And I don't know, like I said, I
don't know if we got any trackers out there that
could maybe make make that make sense. But against and
the references from this original post that inspired the show tonight,
if you talk to any serious hiker, they're like, yes,
demons are real. Make sure you don't walk along a
stream for too long. Sometimes the witch trails me for
miles et centa or someone. But that's where that reference

(01:39:12):
comes from. If you're just joining us. But yeah, fire stuff, man,
I don't know, you know me, I like to look
at the world in a bunch of different ways because
I see those reality tunnels in people, and I like
to hear those experiences. And it's interesting to me that
a different, let's say region that you live in has
kind of cleansed the idea of, you know, demons in

(01:39:33):
the wilderness. Like I said, not entirely comfortable, but you
don't feel like you're going to run into the old
man that's gonna, you know, try and put you in
the oven in each air or something, right, which clearly
would be a demon. I mean, yeah, but yeah, I mean,
I mean right. Other than that just defining it biblically,
how else would you define a demon? But you know

(01:39:53):
what I mean, And that's a grotesque example. I'm sorry
about that, but yeah, good.

Speaker 14 (01:39:59):
For me, as stream is more like salvation. For me,
the danger of being lost in the wilderness is not
having water. And obviously they are dangerous with just drinking
water out of a stream. But for me, a trickle
leads to a creek, leads to a stream, leads to
a river, and a river always leads to civilization. It

(01:40:21):
always does. And that's one of the methods that people
end up surviving the wilderness with is just following water,
you know, And that's how I think of streams. Follow
them forever, follow them, until you find people. And hey,
maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe

(01:40:43):
I don't have as much experience as the people who
say it's dangerous to follow a stream for too long,
But that's how I look at it.

Speaker 3 (01:40:52):
But I think that's I agree. It just sounds very
folk folklore esque when they're talking about it that way.
That's why I kind of want to throw it out
to the out and talk about it. But yeah, fire stuff, brother.
I appreciate you again. I know you waited a long
time to get in here. But this is why we
do this to talk, like I said, talk to regular
people about extraordinary ideas, as you know, and welcome to
the thing. Always a pleasure. Thank you very much for that, James,

(01:41:14):
anything for Michael W? Before we trim this out. We
got about three minutes left. You got anything for Michael W?

Speaker 12 (01:41:22):
Yeah? Great call.

Speaker 11 (01:41:23):
I do think that you know, and this is this
keeps coming up because I think it's important the use
of words and labels on things, and also the idea
that there are different versions or ideas about what demons
or demons or any number of other beings are out there,
and so it may just be you know that person's

(01:41:48):
the person that made that post.

Speaker 12 (01:41:49):
That's the idea.

Speaker 11 (01:41:50):
That's they have this idea that they've found to their
own research or whatever, that these these demons are all bad.
But again it we can only each of us do
our own research so much, and we're not going to
get all the perspectives from everyone else all at once.
It's impossible one lifetime.

Speaker 14 (01:42:09):
So but maybe that person's demon is my cryptid or
something like that.

Speaker 12 (01:42:13):
Right exactly labels.

Speaker 11 (01:42:16):
And I think that you know there are people out
there in the woods that are good and bad, just
like you said, and I think there are also other
beings out there that are good and bad or neutral,
and you never know what you're going to encounter. So yeah, amazing,
amazing calls always final thoughts all yours Michael, Thank.

Speaker 14 (01:42:35):
You guys, I love you, have a good night.

Speaker 3 (01:42:37):
You are the best. Appreciate you. I love back at you,
and thanks for being part of this. Do you know
where to find him? Join the discord if you guys
have not joined the discord. Like I said, I'm a
little borish because I'm the timekeeper and trying to keep
us on track and stuff. So I interrupt and I
do some stuff and you know these people that you
see here, I've interacted with many of them, most of
them offline, not on the show. These people are incredible people.

(01:43:01):
Come meet Michael W. White like the ghost has handled there.
Please please come follow the discord troubleminds dot Org. Click
the discord link. Come say hi to Michael, meet him
and say hey, look, I really enjoyed your input, not
just this time, He's called in several times in the past.
This is why we do it to meet people. Like
I said, this is in that AI acceleration space that

(01:43:22):
I'm always talking about. Don't forget that what we're building
and creating as part of that, as separate from that,
even is a very human space. And that's well, that's
how probably why you find yourself here and why certainly
why it brings me back, and you know, night after
night after night. But I appreciate the call always always good, good,
good stuff, and the different perspectives from the different places

(01:43:45):
or what this is all about. What do you know
about the halted forest? And we're ushering in the spooky
season itself. I didn't realize it, but James turned on
his heater tonight or maybe maybe a couple of nights ago.
I don't know, but he's we have the heater on,
which means we're moving into the season where things go
bumping the nights. What do you know about a haunted vortus?

(01:44:07):
What about the archetype? What about demons? Are they real?

Speaker 12 (01:44:11):
Seven?

Speaker 3 (01:44:11):
O two nine one zero three seven? This is Trouble
Minds on Michael Strange, be right back. More from James
and your calls as well, nobody on the line if
you want to jump in here, all on the way,

(01:44:41):
Welcome back to Troubled Minds. YadA, YadA, all the things,
all the places tonight we're talking yet yeah, wouldn't you
know it? Back to the well? Right, Like I said
when we started tonight, I tend to get a little
navel gaizy and you know go, you know, the narratives
get a little twisted, and there's a lot of things happening,
and it's like, I don't know, my I'm not sure
if this is the way. Well, we're going back to

(01:45:03):
the well and we're talking the haunted forest, the archetype
of such, and I'm calling it a hiker folklore and
reciprocal perception, which is an interesting anthropological aspect which I'll
read to you in just a second, but we are
taking your calls. What do you know about this? And
again a great call from Michael w you appreciate that
white like the ghost and look, I don't know. As usual,

(01:45:24):
those reality tunnels make us look at the world in
different ways, and if we don't talk to each other
outside of that space looking in the same direction, we're
doing it wrong. And so welcome to trouble Minds. That's
what it's all about. James, get you momentarily a Joey,
thanks for being patient, my man. You are on trouble minds.
How you doing, sir? Welcome to the thing and go
right ahead. What's on your mind?

Speaker 2 (01:45:43):
Hey, good evening, Mike, good even James, Hello everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:45:47):
Hello, top of the evening.

Speaker 2 (01:45:49):
To you. Demons exist? Isn't that what you asked initially?

Speaker 3 (01:45:55):
Yeah, the initial question was part of that initial tweet
that the guy posted. So it's kind of a more
of like a you know, if you talk to any
serious hiker, they're like, yes, demons are real. Make sure
you don't walk along the stream for too long. Sometimes
the witch trails me for miles, et cetera. So kind
of the thing. But as you know me, non moneyar
open ended, take it anywhere you like. You could talk
demons or rivers, shout out rivers or the haunted forest

(01:46:18):
or whatever whatever's on your mind. My man.

Speaker 2 (01:46:24):
Yeah, man, I was.

Speaker 16 (01:46:25):
I was listening to some of the calls and you
reading the write up, and I was. It made me
think about this sermon that I heard in a church
like too, maybe two years ago now, And I don't
remember the exact sermon, but I remember the nature of

(01:46:47):
it was about the about man like today's man's preparedness
for you know, the events of the being more gladity
word being encountering the wilderness that like our detachment from

(01:47:09):
from our nature and some of the stuff like I've
heard talked about de nihilis.

Speaker 2 (01:47:14):
You don't spend a lot of time in.

Speaker 16 (01:47:15):
The woods, You probably don't feel super comfortable right away.
You know, maybe certain things you just don't understand. You
might let your mind wander if you're you know, inclined,
and you could speculate that it's all kinds of things
or you know, so much so that maybe maybe you
could kind of even manifested into some kind of reality
mind you know, hallucinations, but under under several uh induced

(01:47:45):
to hallucinations. I've you know, I've traversed all kinds of
different wildernesses. This is not just to say that the
wilds of the woods is the only wilderness or somebody
that's very comfortable with the water would traverse the depths
just because they know those kind of dangers or are there.

Speaker 2 (01:48:03):
They feel more comfortable with it.

Speaker 16 (01:48:05):
They're not so easy to you know, get an uh,
get an edge in on. So like I feel personally
that maybe it's a lot of demons, but influencers for
one one degree or the other, you know, like uh

(01:48:26):
kind of like uh like like in the Bible, when
God told Satan that you go mess with Joe is
like his best follower. But it's like, yeah, go go
ahead and you know, throw throw the book at it,
just don't kill the guy.

Speaker 2 (01:48:39):
And then he did.

Speaker 16 (01:48:40):
So it was like he's he's not able to actually
do anything. It's just little amounts of influence to see
if they'll push things one way or the other. Or
perhaps if there's just some some kind of entity that
likes to watch or toy around or or what have you,
maybe that it's all possible.

Speaker 2 (01:49:00):
But I feel like.

Speaker 16 (01:49:01):
When you when you have a uh a fear or
non understanding. You know, if I give you enough information
and I prepare you enough with with the means of man,
you could go out into any holderness and be like,
we're the top animal.

Speaker 2 (01:49:16):
What are you talking about? Real? Like care about that
whale right now? I'm in the water, My.

Speaker 16 (01:49:21):
Water set us sonars is as Sorry, but I'm just
saying like, that's that's the emphasis. That's when when man
is fully prepared, he can he can go avatar of
that stuff, you know what I mean, just mine whatever
and do his do his thing. And there's the other
half of us that feel kind of cross about that.
So you know, there's there's not a not a real

(01:49:44):
explanation on my part, but I just feel like if
you go out into a wilderness that you don't fully understand,
you have not prepared yourself for you know, that kind
of journey. Just imagine doing that in the dress of
like hallucinogenic drugs or something, you know, like willingly. So
you know, if you have that kind of willpower and
and you come out of it okay, then I think

(01:50:04):
you know you'll be all right to go try some
new wildernesses. But if you walk down into the woods
and you you you get eerie quickly.

Speaker 2 (01:50:14):
You can't can't last it, You're gonna in the day.

Speaker 16 (01:50:17):
That's that's a question each one of us should ask ourselves,
just like the past rights, like are we.

Speaker 2 (01:50:22):
Able to be the same suitable being to encounter this wilderness?

Speaker 16 (01:50:32):
And and and then that that same same night when
he gave that sermon, I I saw something like what
you were trying to explain earlier.

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
I saw I had to i't lie to you. I
I had.

Speaker 16 (01:50:45):
Several tablets of a fellucinogenic and I was standing on
my back porch and it was all dark, and I noticed,
like because I lived out in the out in the woods,
and there's swamps here, and there's beach, and there's c
and there's day. So I'm I've got a lot of different,
you know, wildernesses to face and feel comfortable. And plus

(01:51:05):
there's little little pockets of people, So it's a whole
different willness by itself, But it's just the same. You
walk through a city street and you see all the
faces just like going by, but each one of those
people has all the same knees and stuff going side
of them.

Speaker 2 (01:51:21):
It's just it's just a sea of them so or
a forest of them.

Speaker 16 (01:51:26):
It's it's hard to decipher one from the next unless
you know, some kind of energy reaches out and touches
the rest of them. Just like walking through the woods
by yourself, some kind of energy might just see you
see a chance to to touch you, you know, promote
one signe versusil, and you might get scared, or you

(01:51:46):
might just you know, diminish, diminish that thing's energy. I
know from a lot of experiences out that, out in
the wilderness of different kinds. I feel things. I know
what's happened somewhere. Some I feel you know something there.
I feel you know something thinking it wishes it could
you know, do something, But like I just don't give

(01:52:12):
that much ground for it to stand on, you know,
like put it up a wall. I think Jameson I
was talking about another show several episodes back, made a
good point about putting up walls in your mind to
not to you know, negate that thing as a being,
but to make sure that doesn't just have an influence
upon you one way or the other. You know what's there,

(01:52:32):
and that's the thing is acknowledging it, just like fiercely.
I know very well that jumping out of planes is
a very stupid thing for a human being to do.
You can emulate a bird all you want.

Speaker 2 (01:52:44):
You can. You can say that you identified it. I don't.

Speaker 16 (01:52:46):
It doesn't matter. You're not gonna fly. But you know what,
I got your back dog this parachute.

Speaker 2 (01:52:53):
Did you how to use this?

Speaker 16 (01:52:54):
Once you feel comfortable in the sky and you're like, yeah, man,
like we tested this thing. It's definitely going to work.
And if it don't work, I got to back it. Mean, whoop,
you're out the door. But somebody else it's still going
to freak out your new ends. Well, you paid for
this ridet. Either way, it's going to go to the
plane's going to go around and land.

Speaker 12 (01:53:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:53:13):
I've also said all that with the multiple wilderness aspect,
I think it's important to recognize that sort of the
wilderness in our mind. And like you said that James
brought up previously on another show, those walls are important
because again, the influence is around us all the time.
I talk about these as those control mechanisms and recognizing
when it's sort of kind of creeping in and you know,

(01:53:34):
the too much politics will turn you into a political monster,
and there's a ton of those out there too, And
so just recognizing and I call it, you said, the
walls in your mind. I call it that armor of God,
as I'm always describing, not just with AI but with
everything literally everything, Like, recognize that the influence is deep,
and it's always coming and it's always changing, and if

(01:53:55):
we don't recognize it, we can't do anything about it,
which is really the basis of these conversation. So talk
about this stuff outside of that, you know, mainstream paradigm.
But yeah, fire stuff. I appreciate that that angle on
that in different wildernesses in terms of the wilderness of
the mind, because it certainly exists. You have fire stuff.
What else you got? Go ahead?

Speaker 16 (01:54:15):
Yeah, man, I believe that you just say is true
armor of God, right, Like it's a gift from God
to know that you're truly free of will. And then
when something wants to influence you one way or the other,
if they want to raise your blood pressure, it will
get you angry, make you say something, make you step
out of the character that you have said to yourself
as the true you that you will also project out.

Speaker 2 (01:54:36):
Into the world. If you're true to form right.

Speaker 16 (01:54:38):
Like, I don't know anything more than the next person,
and I would never claim to, but I find it
very hard to traverse this life with the cacopoy of information.
My algorithm is entitled to this day and age to
not solidify myself like something that I will go on

(01:54:58):
as a truth until otherwise. You know that true has
proven different now that I'll say it's verbatim truth, But
I have to have some kind of direction on traffic.

Speaker 2 (01:55:08):
If you believe in nothing, you know, you you could
fall for anything.

Speaker 16 (01:55:11):
I'm pretty resolute in my faith in things as far
as what I feel about my place and this life.

Speaker 3 (01:55:20):
But sure I can see that I can see that
you gotta have You gotta have an anchor somewhere. You
can't be, you know, sort of free floating out into
the astral or a armor.

Speaker 2 (01:55:29):
A guy like you say, exactly right, exactly walk through
the valley of the Shadow of Death, and you fear
no evil. God are with them. And I walked through
the woods.

Speaker 16 (01:55:38):
I'm in the woods right now, just to like place
emphasis because I've been listen to the on off. My
phone was acting funny, so I gotta charge up now.
I'm just kind of walking around. You go out here,
you guys said before to end this, I'll get off.
But to end this, uh, not to disagree, but you say,
like when you get down the woods and all of
a sudden, stuff gets silent, and you realize, like all

(01:56:00):
these noises you know of nature of you once you
once you've detached from that echo of you know, human
that you took out, humanity that you took out into
the woods with you. Now you're solitarying out there in
the world again.

Speaker 2 (01:56:14):
But like.

Speaker 16 (01:56:16):
Nothing ever stops moving ever. So everything's always making some
kind of noise. And sometimes I've heard people say like
they can't do without that background noise, and when they
get out into like the world, it freaks them out.

Speaker 2 (01:56:31):
So sometimes, no matter.

Speaker 16 (01:56:32):
What your situation is, wherever you're at in the world,
if you just close your eyes and listen to the
amount of sound that the world makes without trying to
identify it all, and just let it become this one sound.

Speaker 2 (01:56:48):
Eventually, if you listen long.

Speaker 16 (01:56:49):
Enough, it becomes like a warm, warm war because all
this stuff is just making some kind of vibration at
one time, and it sounds kind of like the ocean.
And they go to the ocean and it's all. It's all,
it's all kind of an interconnected thing. To me, I
don't really freak out about about those sounds. I'll listen
to them often enough. I try not to say it
was so damn much.

Speaker 3 (01:57:10):
Yeah, kind of the shoe and resonance effect, like we're
it's it's we've evolved with this and so hearing it
it shouldn't spook us. It should sort of ground us.
And I think that's.

Speaker 16 (01:57:23):
Exactly Mike, when you're in the when you're in the
woods and all of a sudden, if things get silent,
that's when there is trouble because the woods is making
noise all the time. Like you said, somebody was saying
before about the birds making certain calls as you go buy.

Speaker 2 (01:57:36):
And things like that.

Speaker 16 (01:57:37):
Yeah, you can hear how everything talks to each other
or or gets this information spread around and everything knows
whatever's going in the plants. I'm saying, Oh, how they
bend for certain reasons, some of them you can tell
just by that the way the way the I think
it was a nice soccer was saying's a like the
after the feeling that he was reading in the stones

(01:58:01):
like that in the ground there's no print there, but
you can see how everything else was affected by whatever past.
It's just an even an energy reading just to you know,
make it pretty basic.

Speaker 3 (01:58:15):
Yeah, well said, well said all that. What's gorgeous about
your call right now? Welcome back, Glad to have you
back me talking about meeting incredible people. Please join the discord,
come say hi to Joey fire Stuff as always, but
also I can I can hear the forest in the
background as you're talking, like there's like a you know, chirping,
and I love it. I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:58:34):
Uh, yeah, that's all I was hoping for. Yeah, I
didn't know if it'll be loud enough.

Speaker 3 (01:58:37):
But it's loud enough. I hear. I got headphones on.
I'm not sure if you guys hear in the chat.
Let me know. But fire Stuff appreciate the call and
look forward to talking with you soon. Thanks for fixing
the phone issue whatever that was, and jumping in here
and fire Stuff and we got to hear the sound
of the call of the wild together. I appreciate you. Joey,
thanks for the call. Thanks Marny, I have a great

(01:58:58):
Come join the discord. Like I said, talking aboutazing people.

Speaker 2 (01:59:00):
We have a.

Speaker 3 (01:59:02):
Really really amazing. Aspect of Troubled Minds is we just
attract amazing people. I don't know, like call it luck.
But come meet Joey, Come meet Michael, Why like the
ghost James, all the people that are active on the
discord if you haven't done it yet Troubled Minds dot
org click the discord link. Come say hi, Joey. El
demente is what we call them there, And Yeah, a

(01:59:25):
lot of things in play here, and that's why we
talk to each other, because we're gonna spot things as
somebody else doesn't. And if we don't talk to each other,
then we're missing the forest for the trees. See what
I did there? Seven two ninety five seven one zero
three seven Click the discord link at troubleminds dot org.
Thanks for impacing my man, Joe and Florida. You're on
Troubled Minds. How youster ga redhead?

Speaker 2 (01:59:43):
Hey?

Speaker 15 (01:59:43):
The only sound I have is being my urban dockyard
trying to see if them rats mats what else? Because
were neighbors cut through the trees. But it wrenally nice
to be out on the warts right now. It's some
cooler weather basically started before the forest in his back,
kind of like the Abyss. When you first started the show,

(02:00:06):
I thought about grounding as the simplest level when they
say that people could take their shoes off and walk
their foot and then you can round themselves, which we
have positive health benefits and things, you know, just from
being literally grounded too the earth. I don't thought. I was,

(02:00:28):
you know, boy scouts many many moons ago ogle camping,
but it was with other people, so you always told
stories about the campfire and stuff, but me particularly never
really excooked. The only time I did was we went
camping in the winter time at molt Talk Point in
Old Island. And while it really it was wooded, but

(02:00:49):
it wasn't in the woods because it was near the water,
literally near the ocean the Atlantic. It was cold and
desolate and it was just our true and it was
probably only eight people from our troop. And while it
was fun, it was still desolate. And you can see

(02:01:11):
yourself if you were there for a couple of days,
maybe starting to get into your own head. So you know,
a lot of that, in my opinion is for an
amateur person that's a woodsman, the first layer might be
the first couple of days. If you buy yourself at night.

(02:01:31):
You might get into your own head like, hey, did
you hear that? Did you hear that rubbery out there?
Did you hear this? Did you hear that? Now? Who else?
If that's not the beginning of opening up your mind
and your mind to something that might be out there
or given a ghost spirit or just your own imagination.

(02:01:53):
If you're opening yourself up to these things. And maybe
some of us get spooked and we make it up
like some people using a wiki board, well that's group think.
I'll it just move and maybe it really didn't move,
And maybe it really didn't move because it was something else,
or maybe it just moved because in the back of

(02:02:14):
everybody's subconscious they're just doing it, which kind of gets
me to think about the water and the rivers and
the streams and things like that. Maybe it is magnifying
our own mind to manifest and kind of poultrudized effect
in your general area. Yep, So just kind of maybe

(02:02:42):
juice type stuff. But I do remember when you talk
spoke about quite a few years ago the ghost Walkers
of Hawaii and did a show on that, and I
had never heard about that, and then you had video,
we had video of it, was it Gettysburger. Battle of

(02:03:05):
Gettysburger is actually like a spirit or something that crawls
across the field, which basically a wonder in a lot
of these forests, maybe they legitimately are haunted by the
scars armies being decimated, you know, whether there is American
trots or in Japan, samurai in Europe, all of those things.

(02:03:30):
Maybe there was a lot of death there in that
shadow pays around and if you're there long enough, you
feel that you get a glimpse of that. Do you
see that?

Speaker 17 (02:03:47):
You know this? You know?

Speaker 15 (02:03:49):
Uh? The Bigfoot has been mentioned, and it was kind
of curious that a couple of weeks ago in Florida
there was a really good shatsquatch sighting, uh that I
had sent to a buddy of mine. And I kind
of remember a few years ago that there was a
shatsquatch bigfoot sighting in North Florida and a couple of

(02:04:09):
weeks later in a forest in Georgia, and I was
just wondering. I'm like, I wonder if it's the same
creature that was seen in North Florida farming into Georgia, which.

Speaker 3 (02:04:18):
Would be the sky game, right, regionally. I think they
called the.

Speaker 15 (02:04:21):
Same morning more than is the skug Game in the
last report by the big Foot R. I think it's
a big Foot Reporting Foundation, which at br SO they
called the big Foot I know south of me. When
I went camping in my Aca and I told that
story before. It was literally America River at a koa,

(02:04:41):
not knowing anything about Riaka, I had seen the V
shaped chevron craft fly overhead sign and I was like, WHOA,
that was pretty cool. It was kind of weird. I
didn't losing sleep over it, you know. But in the
next day I asked a guy that was working at
the koa, anything weird going down here in my hacking.

(02:05:03):
The guy looked at me like he was weird to
begin with, and come to find out that the skunk
Gape was sided in my hacker. And it's kind of
funny because there's a Facebook group now called the Skuntcape Liberation,
which the kind of like I want to say, like
this group I don't want to see, you know, like
the anarchists, but they use the skuncake pan. There's supposing

(02:05:26):
a signing of it. You can't talk it's trure or not.
But the skunk Cap is symbolically, I would say, like
South Florida, but it could be anywhere in Florida technically,
you know. But again, if I'm underneath my truck and
I sit under eighth my truck long enough, I might
get claustrophobic, get a little bit patty. Right, So if

(02:05:47):
I'm on the woods long enough, I might start thinking it,
you know, nothing is actually something so and then I
might see a large aisle and say to myself, well,
I was probably abducted. Right. We all know the stories
that the owls are not what they see, so it's
an interesting conversation. But everybody else, you know, everybody has

(02:06:09):
a different experience in the woods. We didn't mention missing
four one. One that seems to be in my mind
the ulpenate curse of the woods because people go missing
and we still don't have proper explanations for that. And
when they do go missing a lot of times there's

(02:06:30):
storms and the things that happen after, you know, not missing,
the person comes out, so it's kind of weird. And
then I also, I'll probably leave you with this one,
But then I thought about Tolten's and belief. So you
go into the woods and it's focused to belief and
if everybody goes into those woods, going to the haunted,
they'll probably come out so the find experience. It's like

(02:06:53):
going to Ebore City and taking a ghost tour. So
I don't know, and you know, and demons, we are demons, negative, positive,
you know, I don't think we always hear the positive.
You know, people say they die and they see Jesus,
or they see this and they see that. But more

(02:07:15):
than anything, I think a lot of us have had
something happened to us while we're awake. It seems to
be typically negative, but maybe that's just me.

Speaker 3 (02:07:24):
Hey, we're allowed to just be me, and that's totally cool.
Shout out Joe. Been literally listening for years and years
and years, not kidding you that Night Marcher's show of
a Wahoo and Gettysburg the Ghosts. I'm not kidding. That
show had to be five and a half or maybe
six years ago long.

Speaker 15 (02:07:41):
You know why. You know why I remember that story
because synchrosity my sister in law well sync And it
was weird because my sister in walked passed away and
I had to go to the house. It was during COVID.
That's that show. And I looked at my wife the
next day and I said, did you ever hear the
ghost Walkers? Because Hawaii just it was total synchronicity because

(02:08:03):
she had rippen Hawaii and she want Hawaii and here
she is dead at fifty And originally the next day
I mentioned looked at my life and she was like,
She's like, yeah, she want Hawai. And then we you know,
we could do this in a Hawk show if you
want to review it again. But that was the first
was I put on your show that night to get
some calmness after having a tragic day, and we ended

(02:08:25):
up going to Hawaii. Because that shows the beginning of
the rest of the synchronicities that happened during the memorial service,
all kinds of weird stuff. I had a body that
came in from Hawaii and there was a ship in
had usually never happened. Just some weird stuff that we
ended up going to Hawaii. This spread her assis, which
my wife and I going to Hawaii again. It may

(02:08:47):
TOMORROWI to see a buddy of mine. But anyway, so.

Speaker 3 (02:08:50):
Maybe maybe that synchronicity is time to revisit. Let me
know if you have some time, we'll put that together. Okay, yeah,
no problem.

Speaker 15 (02:08:57):
Probably back down. I'm gonna get us, but I'm gonna
be on the ice in the morning.

Speaker 3 (02:09:00):
So you guys, lad appreciate the call. You know you
love him. Joe and Florida good friend for a long time.
Not kidding you five and a half years ago. Probably
that show we're stalking about time. We're talking the haunted
forest hiker, folklore and reciprocal perception. What the hell does
all that mean? What does it mean to you?

Speaker 12 (02:09:17):
Seven?

Speaker 3 (02:09:18):
Two three seven? This is Troubled Minds on Michael Strange.
We're right back more on the way. We got Ricky
and Jen coming up. More from James and your calls
as well, and see y'a on the other side of
the break. Welcome back to Troubled Minds. I'm your host

(02:09:52):
of Michael Strange. All the places, all the things Troubleminds
dot org. You can find uh the rumble chat that
chick the to pump in rumble chat. Is it rumble
You know where to find a Troubleminds dot org on
the right side, Watch on rumble, watch on YouTube where
in all the places you would expect, and of course
we're on digital radio KUAP Digital Broadcasting broadcasting out of
Las Vegas for Real and also eighty eight point four

(02:10:16):
FM Auckland, New Zealand. Tonight we're talking the Haunted Forest
ringing in Spooky Season, as I've been saying, and oddly enough,
well a lot of synchronicities as part of it. Which
how do you explain these things? I'm not so sure
you can, but shout out to Joe. That was a
long time ago, bro, that was like literally years ago

(02:10:37):
that show you brought up. But again, there was a
massive synchronicity storm that came as part of that show.
It's wild how you kind of throw ideas out and
these things kind of stack and happen, wild, Wild, Wild.
We'll get back to that at some point as well.
The night Marchers and you know, sort of that residual energy.
Maybe as we're coming into spooky season, maybe we'll get

(02:10:57):
to that anything, James, and then we'll go to Gin.

Speaker 11 (02:11:01):
Yeah, great calls from everyone. I do vaguely remember that now.
It's I think it might have been like right when
I started listening. They're close to that, So it's amazing,
And yeah, the synchronicity thing is also always amazing when
that happens. And I do want to point out I
do like that Joe mentioned you don't always hear the
positive experiences, and again that's, you know, because of popular culture,

(02:11:26):
it has to be negative and scary. Everything has to
be negative and scary. So I'll paranormal other other worldly
beings have to be scary as well, which if you
look into it enough, you'll find that's not always the case.

Speaker 3 (02:11:38):
Indeed, which is as you talk about. And I think
it's important to recognize those definitions. And I've said this
in the past too. If you look at an alien
and you look at a bigfoot, right, how do you
compare the two, because they're both, let's say, constructs of
the human mind. How do we define it without actually
having them in captivity or you know, sort of meeting
with them or you know what I mean, first contact

(02:11:59):
that type of stuff. So to me, like if you
say bigfoot, I think aliens, right, because I think it's
it's a definition aspect, it's it's how we describe these
things and it is all living in our mind in
our reality tunnels anyway. So like I said, I'm not
saying any of it's fake. I'm not saying any of
it's real. I'm saying, let's take it, you know, a

(02:12:19):
step at a time and consider the evidence and make
up your own mind. That's it. That's why I'm here.
I'd love to hear you guys thoughts. If you want
to be part of the conversation. Seven oh two nine
one zero three seven, click to the discord link at
Troubledminds dot org. Let's get Jen in here. Thanks for
being patient, Jen in Missouri, I remember where you're from.
Sorry about that. We're talking the haunted forest hiker, folklore
and reciprocal perception. How are you, Jen? All yours gret head.

Speaker 18 (02:12:44):
Are you guys doing?

Speaker 2 (02:12:46):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (02:12:46):
Pretty good? Thanks for asking. I hope you're well as well.

Speaker 16 (02:12:49):
Good.

Speaker 3 (02:12:49):
Yeah, what do you got?

Speaker 15 (02:12:50):
Go ahead?

Speaker 18 (02:12:50):
Yep, doing good.

Speaker 17 (02:12:53):
You know, definitively there are two, well two you could say,
two different worlds work. You have the world of humanity,
you know, it's set itself up with cities and civilization
and everything working how it should to build societies. Ideally,

(02:13:15):
it has its own problems, but people live in it
pretty comfortably, and they do it until their death, and
they continue on that way and it works out. It's
got a world to itself that has its pros and cons.
And there's another world as well, and that world is

(02:13:37):
just a world of the wild, basically, just the realm
of the world that you could choose or not choose
by living away from that one. And so many times over,
I mean, people do think that they could be living

(02:13:58):
in that realm by isolation alone, and they try to,
you know, and they may be self imposed or they
may do it unintentionally, but they have that choice. But
the world I'm talking about with this is that you
have the world of the wild essentially, the completely uncivilized,

(02:14:18):
separate world from that, and then how the human interacts
with that realm, how they interact with it or how
they survive in it and how they react to it
is similar but different to the way they interact in
the world of civilization.

Speaker 18 (02:14:39):
So you have those two separate.

Speaker 17 (02:14:41):
Worlds in the realm of the wild. You know, it
is a separate city, entity, energy, separate everything. If if
you take everything away of the conveniences that you might

(02:15:04):
have if you lived in civilization, living in the woods
can be beautiful and enjoyable if you have the convenience
of civilization mixed in, so you could still have all
the creature comforts, but your environment.

Speaker 18 (02:15:24):
Is the wild, so you can kind of see all of.

Speaker 17 (02:15:27):
That almost like a zoo, and a lot of people
do enjoy that perspective. There's another perspective to that. It's
separate from that. It's not quite the same as camping
in it or visiting it momentarily. If you had to
actually exist in it without the hand of civilization, it

(02:15:52):
looks a lot different. So I mean it is unique
experience in is two separate worlds. I lived able to live,
only able to live for three years when I did

(02:16:12):
it on my own, and I had intermittent electricity.

Speaker 18 (02:16:18):
I moved out onto.

Speaker 17 (02:16:22):
Due to a death of a friend, all these circumstances
that happened and collided. Moved out onto three hundred and
sixty four acres. At three hundred and sixty four acres
was a but additionally expanded out into nothing but more
people who had about three hundred and sixty four acres,

(02:16:42):
So people were spaced out exponentially, and the nearest store
on foot or by car, by.

Speaker 18 (02:16:49):
Whatever it means.

Speaker 17 (02:16:51):
I did not even go out there with a car,
so I had no vehicle, and the nearest location of
civilization was eight miles walk and beyond that to a Walmart,
which in this region the United.

Speaker 3 (02:17:09):
States, that sounds so wrong. Walk at eight miles to
a Walmart sounds so wrong.

Speaker 18 (02:17:14):
No, Walmart was fourteen miles.

Speaker 3 (02:17:16):
Oh I see, I say, okay.

Speaker 18 (02:17:18):
Walmart would have been fourteen miles.

Speaker 17 (02:17:21):
But you spent half a day hypothetically, if you walk
to a gas station there and then half a day back,
and your nearest neighbor was about a quarter mile away
or something near that, quite a ways away, and out
there was no vehicle. So you load in so much

(02:17:44):
for a couple of weeks. And I did that for
three years. And the house that I had was wood,
heat and electricity was it was an old farmhouse that
had me occupied for a while.

Speaker 18 (02:18:01):
The view was incredible.

Speaker 17 (02:18:04):
I had a view of a valley in the in
the Ozark Mountains and there was absolutely nothing except the woods,
and it was incredible in the right season. But the
elements themselves, and how prolific the storms, you know, there

(02:18:29):
would be these storms would come in on the hillsides
that would spark inside on the like on the over
the facet of the sink. There was no hot water.
It was very rule in every way. There was a well,

(02:18:49):
but it was pretty rough and.

Speaker 3 (02:18:54):
You were calling us from there. I remember the stories
from the well, right.

Speaker 17 (02:18:57):
I was, I was calling you from the attic because
I had the only internet I could get was extremely
expensive for me. It was like, you know, to have
internet was through AT and T. It's the only thing
I could reach out there. I tried several different services,
and AT and T was able to intermittently connect out there.

(02:19:21):
And I call from the I have to go up
into the attic or outside and to even maintain a
good connection. But that's where I was living at the
time when I started listening to Troubled Minds, and I
just did it for about three years because the last
winter that I was there, it was just gathering the

(02:19:41):
wood or trying to.

Speaker 8 (02:19:45):
You know.

Speaker 17 (02:19:45):
I mean I could have but I literally did it up,
you know alone.

Speaker 18 (02:19:49):
Was it was really rough on the pro.

Speaker 17 (02:19:56):
I well, yeah, I mean when I was I'm not
going to go into like the history of it, but
the only thing I had was like the weapons that
I needed and the tools that I you know, can make,
and your wits and your awareness, and that was literally it. It
was like you were just alone out there. But when

(02:20:19):
I was out there, it wasn't immediate. I mean, you
could immediately tell that the woods had an intelligence to
them because you're alone with it, and there was a
feeling of a sense that there was a presence to it.

Speaker 18 (02:20:34):
There was no doubt that it.

Speaker 17 (02:20:36):
Was alive, and it was either aware or it did
not care that you were in it, and so you were.
And I could see from the things I saw around
me how mercilessly it was just the way that the
nature acted, and the nature itself is the spirit that

(02:21:00):
people are talking to. The nature was, it was the
embodiment the elements all the time, whether it was the
season or it was a storm unexpected.

Speaker 18 (02:21:16):
If you were out in it.

Speaker 7 (02:21:18):
It was.

Speaker 17 (02:21:21):
It meant a lot about your existence one hundred percent,
and so you would have these cautionary ways.

Speaker 18 (02:21:29):
And I was so isolated, and.

Speaker 12 (02:21:34):
I mean.

Speaker 17 (02:21:36):
When people talk about demons or angels, I began to
believe and understand that.

Speaker 18 (02:21:44):
It was that, that it.

Speaker 17 (02:21:47):
Was that truth, that was the truth, and that our
society is mingled into that truth and perhaps they've been
trying to shield themselves from it for a long time.
And I did a lot of work and study and
research about it, and it seems so it seems like
people have been in society and society, well in civilization,

(02:22:13):
trying to separate themselves from it, to secure themselves as
comfortably as possible on the earth, even though you know
the trueness of it, especially if caught off away from society,
is significantly different. And we're not talking about camping or
hiking for a couple of weeks, or camping for a

(02:22:34):
couple of weeks at a hunting cabin, or going out
to a house that has all the modern conveniences and
you're just out there because it's pretty to look at.
There was it was. It's different when you were at
the mercy of it. It's significantly different feeling. And you

(02:22:55):
know that you could choose. Sometimes there were times where
you could not choose, like a.

Speaker 3 (02:23:03):
Like a bad weather spell that could change it could
change the entire season. Yeah, and then and screw you.
And I mean you know you're you're eating out, you know,
beans out of a can because it's the only thing
you can get or whether it's the only thing you
have left. I mean, that's that's the type of stuff
that like, as you're describing, right, there's no there's no glamping.
There's there's none of that, and so much of the

(02:23:24):
world is still that. It's still that that deep, dark,
really scary wilderness that we've talked about this before, you
and I on the show, is that it's scary. It's
trying to kill you, whether it knows it or not,
maybe like a different but yeah.

Speaker 18 (02:23:39):
It's nearly trying to.

Speaker 17 (02:23:41):
But it's the it's beautiful, and it has its process,
and you know, it's kind of up to yourself if
you can survive it or not and if you know,
and you don't know that until until you do. And
it's an awkward feeling, but it is alive and is

(02:24:06):
doing and it is the demons, and we have our
inner demons and angels as well that try to guide
us through all those things. But the nature itself is
this whole, separate entity that has so much to it.
I always thought, you know, about, how how did they

(02:24:29):
learn marring our predecessors, how did they learn that you
could how to survive this the point that they did
with the mapping of the stars and the mapping of everything,
and it was all for survival.

Speaker 18 (02:24:45):
And they were taught by.

Speaker 17 (02:24:49):
These angels and demons that are in the world and
the world that they live in is the one I'm describing.
It's the one that's uncivilized, and they learned it from that.
And I always laugh when people say, well I got
it planned out, because you spend enough time, you know,
for real in it and you see what you're planning

(02:25:10):
means to it, and it means absolutely nothing.

Speaker 3 (02:25:16):
There's a saying that goes a man plans God laughs. Yes, exactly,
Like I said, one bad, bad weather spell can change
everything and be the difference between life and death. Yeah, yeah,
that's wild funny going down memory lane that like I
remember you calling from the attic and like spiders and stuff,
and yeah, yeah, that's funny.

Speaker 18 (02:25:40):
Yeah, and I would, I would literally, like.

Speaker 17 (02:25:45):
You know, it was just it was also dependent upon
the work too, Like what's just different. It was just
very different back there. I did it for two winters
and the third winter was kind of rough, and I
just kind of it made me so anxious and I
couldn't and I just moved back into town.

Speaker 18 (02:26:03):
But because I just.

Speaker 17 (02:26:06):
Well, I'm just being honest, you know, like it was
I mean, I guess that was it was enough for
me as far as seeing how it would go. But
it was beautiful but the point I'm trying to get
at is that there was intelligence to it, that it
knew exactly what was doing obviously, and then the stars
out there and everything you could see so clearly that

(02:26:29):
if you had no choice, I had a choice eventually,
and I did leave, But just because even in the
summer sometimes you'd be looking at at that heat and
just be feeling it as well, and there's no relief
from it, and because you're extracting all of the modern

(02:26:50):
conveniences and it was literally just a farmhouse with none
of that. There wasn't hot water, there was electricity, only
worked in one part of the house or the other.
You could only do this or that. It was like that,
and there was no heat. And in the winter the

(02:27:11):
snow would come in and you'd just be hoping that
it wouldn't and it would sometimes take down the lines
and you'd have to wait a little while till they
came and did something with it on that strip out there.
And so it was like that, and it was just
really incredible the force of it. And I think that
we do have separate worlds happening, and that mankind has

(02:27:35):
created it's own world to try to live with that one,
and they've sacrificed this and they've sacrificed that, and there's
a lot, a lot of trade off about what comes
out of that. And you know there are some that
wish they could just go to another planet.

Speaker 18 (02:27:55):
But you know this.

Speaker 3 (02:27:56):
One is his name is Elon Musk.

Speaker 17 (02:27:59):
Yes, yes, indeed, yeah, because I don't know what because
but why he would want to do it so much.
But there is the intelligence of it is the demons
and the gods and the angels. The intelligence level when
you're out there and you can literally begin to hear

(02:28:19):
like I remember one time I was out in the
cedar grove and I was getting wood and I never
went off into that cedar grove because it was so
weird on the side of the hill and there were
all these boulders, and I've been told that boulder fields
are kind of dangerous. It's where there are these huge
boulders and there were these cedar trees. But boulder fields

(02:28:43):
are considered kind of sacred, and then you match that
with cedar, and it's like this sacred sort of space.

Speaker 18 (02:28:50):
Well, it's desperate. And so I was going up there
and getting wood.

Speaker 17 (02:28:55):
And I heard these crows cawing and crows cawing means that,
you know, the crows and the coyotes kind of go
together many times, these animals have a collaborative interaction, a partnership.
And I was out there, and I was just so
uncomfortable that I was out there with them carrying on

(02:29:18):
like that, because they're telling each other that I am there,
and so I thought it was really interesting.

Speaker 3 (02:29:26):
And because they'll get some scraps. If the coyotes get you,
they'll get some scraps. The corvids, those birds are so smarts,
are so smart. That's crazy.

Speaker 18 (02:29:35):
Wow, it's really weird.

Speaker 3 (02:29:38):
Yeah, wild stuff, wild stuff. I love it. It's uh,
I'm glad you're out of there, because it's one of
those things that, like I said, you can't really define
what that's like until you've been there. And then my
grandparents lived up in the woods, like I said, and
a brutal winner could like ruin them for the year
type of stuff, So so I recognize that, but I
was still like a kid. I didn't really understand what

(02:30:02):
that stuff meant. But as you're describing it, right, like
when it's in your face and you have to you
have to plan and then you know, like I said,
you know, man plans God laughs, that this is this
is reality. This is the reality that we've peeled away from,
as you're describing, and we've created this sort of faux
reality that has nothing to do with nature. And we've

(02:30:22):
even issued nature as part of this new reality that
the digital reality we're talking about. And then eventually, right,
go look at the how the Amazon Jungle takes it
all back eventually. Anyway, that's the way it words, right, I.

Speaker 18 (02:30:36):
Bet it goes both ways. I bet eventually people will
be trying to go the other way.

Speaker 17 (02:30:41):
Yeah, I mean it wasn't you know, it was quite
It was you know, sort of you know, just I
don't know.

Speaker 18 (02:30:52):
We want to know when you get a chance, you
kind of want to know.

Speaker 17 (02:30:57):
But when you do find out, like in my cases, yeah,
I would never I really don't.

Speaker 18 (02:31:04):
I wouldn't choose it unless I had maybe.

Speaker 12 (02:31:09):
You know.

Speaker 18 (02:31:11):
Others. Yeah, like you don't want to choose it.

Speaker 3 (02:31:14):
Yeah, you certainly need to support system there. Yeah, it's not. Yeah,
like we've always said, Nature's Nature's coming for you, whether
you know it or not. Be it. Keep your head
on a swivel, because things can things can change quickly. Yeah.

Speaker 17 (02:31:26):
Absolutely, have a great night, Mike and James. Good to
see you. See you on Saturday.

Speaker 3 (02:31:32):
They should go give her a follow, you know where
to find her. Trouble mindstor Forts my friends says, follow
Jennifer here, and uh scrolled down a little bit. It's
alphabetical and of course follow Salceito Paranormal dot com. James here,
Jen co host was James on the weekends on sal
Cito Paranormal. Yeah, good stuff. Yeah, I remember she literally
was calling from the attic, like describing it as like

(02:31:55):
the only way she could get a connection for a
little while. And this is I don't know what it
had to be right where I'm think about all the
all the years we've been doing this, like I said, Joe,
going all the way back to that that one show
like six years ago or five and a half. I
can actually go time stamp that because we can. We
can not be like, oh back in the days of
your we can time stamp that because it's actually uh,

(02:32:15):
it's it's YouTube. Keeps track anything on what anything Jen
said there, James, you get the final word too, by
the way, anything to add to that, We'll go to
Ricky and then you get to find it where we'll
wrap this up.

Speaker 11 (02:32:26):
Oh, no problem. Yeah, I'm just just great call from
Jen as always. And uh yeah I am. I remember
that too.

Speaker 12 (02:32:34):
I was.

Speaker 11 (02:32:34):
I'm with you. I'm glad that with her. I'm glad
that she's she's in town now in a way too,
because I can't imagine that just being out there in
my situation where I'm in now. It's just you know,
I know I'm as of now, I'm better off in
the apartment, like I'm just at that point. So but yeah,

(02:32:55):
great call. I'm looking forward to Ricky, and and thank
you for having me on.

Speaker 3 (02:32:59):
Glad to have you. You were the best. The Gluve
of the show. The Glove of the show followed James
Celcy to paranormal dot com. Just like it sounds s
A L s I d oh, paranormal dot com. It's
got to Ricky. Ricky in the Tri State area. What's
a brother? You're in trouble minds? How are you?

Speaker 17 (02:33:11):
Sir?

Speaker 3 (02:33:12):
Go right ahead?

Speaker 19 (02:33:13):
Good, good, Glad to be here, Glad to be here.
There's been some great calls tonight. Yeah, great topic.

Speaker 2 (02:33:19):
For sure.

Speaker 3 (02:33:20):
We have a knack, don't we. Thanks thanks for staying
up late. And being patient. What's on your mind? Go
right ahead.

Speaker 19 (02:33:26):
I just want to uh call in, tell them, tell
him a couple of stories. I was scrolling on Facebook
while you were talking, and I posted a picture earlier
in the chat.

Speaker 15 (02:33:36):
Uh.

Speaker 19 (02:33:38):
It was kind of funny because it was it's a
bottle bio degradabur urn, turn your ashes into a tree,
and had a little girl in there said, do.

Speaker 7 (02:33:46):
You want haunted forest? That's how you get haunted forest.

Speaker 19 (02:33:49):
You know, that's exactly for crazy how it sync together
with you know everything that what you were talking about.
And I'm just crowling through and all of a sudden, poop,
I'm like, holy hell, that's that's while.

Speaker 3 (02:34:00):
But it's my way records. I just channel sync. That's
what I do these days.

Speaker 19 (02:34:06):
Absolutely. I just said a little bit a couple of things,
and when it was just everybody talking about kind of
throw throw pieces here and there, but I went, I've
been trying to go camping more lately, just because it's
just getting back into.

Speaker 7 (02:34:25):
Get back in nature and just get away.

Speaker 19 (02:34:27):
And use it, you know, because you like, if you're
able to do it, like it's you know a lot
of places on like twenty bucks, thirty bucks, or something
like that to night you can stay and you know,
and it's you know, compared to two hundred dollars a
night you know at a hotel, so you can actually
get you know, get away and stay a week at
a at a campsite and and be actually.

Speaker 2 (02:34:50):
Kind of affordble, you know.

Speaker 19 (02:34:51):
But I did on the uh last year, I traveled
to Natural Nationals Trace and went all the way up here,
and there's a lots of lots of crazy places up
and down it. It's like for the ones that don't know,
it's like four hundred and forty miles of just highway.

(02:35:13):
And if you ever do go down, make sure you
get some gas because you know, make sure you pay
attention cascades because there's no there's no stores, nothing on.
You got to get off the trays to get to
anything any stores. And but there's uh there's ancient Indian
barrel mounds and uh ruins and all kinds of stuff

(02:35:33):
all the way up and down at all kinds of
amazing places. And I went camping by myself and the
first night was it was hot. It was terrible, It
was terribly hot. But I remember I remember seeing remember
seeing an orb come up I was sitting there. I
heard something outside and I looked and I opened up

(02:35:54):
the door and it was like there was only a
couple other campers there that night, because I went around
and looked afterwards next day and I was like I
was pretty much by myself except for like, you know,
opposite direction over somebody. But it was a big old bike,
like come up and then it disappeared. I'm like, it's
time to go to bed. But and it was it

(02:36:15):
was just wild. It was like what I was like, man,
where you know, where's my phone? Of course, it just
like as soon as it's seen it and it's got
real bright, and then it's gone. I was like I
couldn't get a chance to take a picture or even
try to take a picture of video.

Speaker 4 (02:36:27):
It was wild.

Speaker 7 (02:36:28):
But but there you can.

Speaker 19 (02:36:30):
You can get out there in the woods and then
get in there and get You can't get in your
own mind though, but you can.

Speaker 7 (02:36:36):
Kind of you can kind of feel.

Speaker 19 (02:36:38):
You can feel the energy and stuff, and I know,
you can feel like you know, the temperture changing and
stuff like that, and you can see.

Speaker 7 (02:36:48):
How you're how you react, you know.

Speaker 19 (02:36:52):
I remember I told her on James's channel, I told
a story where I was actually like I decided to
ride my bike to work one day and I forgot
about the cemetery and I was riding on. It was
like during the summer and it's hot, and as soon
as I got to where that cemetery was, the temperature dropped,
and uh then I looked over and remembered it was there,
and of course then I started pelling eving really hard,

(02:37:12):
but uh and then it warmed back up.

Speaker 7 (02:37:15):
It was, you know, one of the eerie things.

Speaker 19 (02:37:16):
So if you know the energy out there in the
woods and the forest, it's, uh, it's amazing, and it's
they can kind of ground you, get you back into
nature and uh you know they say, uh, you know,
actually like swimming, like natural water and pure water can
actually kind of help, you know, uh you know, bring

(02:37:39):
some of that, you know, negativity and stuff like that
out of you. So I mean, it's it's too good
to get out and everything, and but you can't get
in your mind because I like with the land.

Speaker 7 (02:37:50):
I'm right now.

Speaker 19 (02:37:51):
I camped here a couple of times before I actually
started moving buildings and stuff here and start I'd have
some bombfires. So I didn't want to leave the bomb
fire you know, Alan so, but I remember the first
night I did, and I was sitting there and everything
kind of cool, and the wind turned and we did
there's like a house, there's some houses way down like

(02:38:12):
partly quarter mile down the road or so, but they
have big will wind chimes, and all of a sudden
they started hearing these weird sounds coming through.

Speaker 7 (02:38:20):
The woods, like what and the hell is that?

Speaker 2 (02:38:22):
And did I realize what it was?

Speaker 19 (02:38:24):
You know, it was wind chimes, But you know, I
could have could have got my mind and all kinds of.

Speaker 7 (02:38:29):
Different states of scared and running and you know, but.

Speaker 3 (02:38:34):
The woods makes makes some weird sounds. And those wind
chimes were obviously from the Bloody Witch cabin. So I'm
sure you were totally safe.

Speaker 19 (02:38:42):
Absolutely absolutely, And uh it was you know, talking about
I think Joey was talking about, you know, having you know,
where people you know, talks on it. I forget how
it was, but it popped in my head and made

(02:39:03):
me think about I'm thinking, made me think.

Speaker 7 (02:39:06):
About my grandfather.

Speaker 19 (02:39:07):
I called him Baba, but he I remember he he
had a stroke right there at the very end, and uh,
he was all kinds of like silly, you know, they
had to put a bunch of extra like the little
pads for your you know, the meters and stuff you
put on. They put a bunch of extra ones on

(02:39:27):
there because he was pulling them off. So he was
playing with the ones that you know, so they were
trying to keep him from playing with the ones actually
had did anything, and he he kind of like it
was like he went back to the child mind and
it was like he was sitting there and he was
singing gospel songs and I you know, right before it
was time for him to go, it was it was
a while you know, kind of started talking to uh,

(02:39:52):
I'll be talking to his mama. I don't know, but
he was. It was a wild, wild moment of time,
you know, when right there. But he was short up,
he was he was I guess he was ready to
go home.

Speaker 3 (02:40:04):
You know, it does happen and rest in peace.

Speaker 19 (02:40:12):
Yeah, my both my grandparents. It was wild, like my
my dad's dad. Hell, he he knew. He called everybody
was like he knew it was it was almost his time.
So he was bringing everybody in. He's like, I know,
I got much time time left, and which his his
passion always kind of urks me because the reason he

(02:40:32):
was sick was because of Vietnam and and all the
agent orange he inhaled and stuff like that. But and then,
but on the weird thing, I was sitting there and
my A D D brain going along. I was scrolling
through stuff. I'm multitasking because I can't help it. Just

(02:40:52):
my brain don't work right. But did you I know
you're out there, Mike, did you see if I thought
him pile as the cremated remains out there and outside
of Vegas.

Speaker 3 (02:41:04):
I didn't hear the story. I didn't. I said that
to me, if you can, when you get a moment
anytime tomorrow, the next day, whatever as you as you
see fit. I don't know anything about it. I haven't
heard of it till you just brought it up right now.

Speaker 19 (02:41:15):
Uh, somebody out in the desert they found seventy piles
of cremated remains. So so I was it ran in
my head. I was like, well, I'm I'm gonna play.
I played with rock real quick and uh and made
a I said, told it, made it. I told it,
give me a dictation like for like a core story

(02:41:35):
of you know, but make it because I asked about it,
because I put it in there. I was like, is
that real because I've seen it. I've seen it on
Facebook and I said, it's real not and it's like, yeah,
it's real. Somebody did find them and I so we'll
make me a story, and uhhugh was twisted. But uh
with vampires, you know, maybe it was a bunch of
vampires and they got caught in the sunlight and got
burned up, and so it's they made me a little

(02:41:57):
quick story.

Speaker 7 (02:41:57):
But uh, but yeah, I don't know yet.

Speaker 19 (02:42:01):
It's like seventy piles of creamated remains out there, so yeah,
you know, possibly they say the possibility that you know,
maybe you know, somebody retired, you know, somebody don't you know,
reclaimed the remains a storm in a room and maybe
somebody went cleaned up the storeroom and it was poured
them out, you know.

Speaker 7 (02:42:17):
But I don't know. Maybe it could be vampires, you know,
or or.

Speaker 3 (02:42:23):
The Las Vegas was built by the mob. You know
that that probably plays in that story as well. Not
to be morbid, but there's they still find by the way,
as Lake Mead is a shrinking and shrinking the water
level that they find like barrels that are literally like
those like those what fifty gallon barrels that that are

(02:42:44):
filled with cement and they find human remains in them. Still, so,
I mean, you know, the mob was here. I'm laughing,
laughing morbidly. It's not funny, but I mean it's definitely
plays in this part of this neck of the woods
as we say, oh yeah.

Speaker 19 (02:42:58):
Yeah, I think I asked her something. But they they
find another one just the other day.

Speaker 2 (02:43:01):
It was.

Speaker 7 (02:43:03):
It's it's wild. Yeah, there's the of them for short.

Speaker 19 (02:43:08):
The mob they built Vegas and uh and up around
close to me, it's a couple hours away from it.
Hot Springs, Arkansas they did up there too. They did
a lot of a lot of the mob and stuff,
did a lot of stuff up there, a lot of gangsters.
They had them hot springs and hot hot bass and stuff.
So they come up there and enjoy them. But the

(02:43:31):
mobsters built a Hot Springs Arkansas too, So pretty pretty
wild stuff.

Speaker 3 (02:43:37):
Doesn't surprise me a bit. The mobsters are busy doing
mobster things, and it's it's where we came from the
old right, but pre surveillance state, you could mobster away
and get away with that. What they put an al
capone away for that's right, tax eVision. Not for all
the murders and stuff. Nope, nope, not not being a

(02:43:57):
mob boss, no, Taxivision. Yeah. Yeah, it's nice to see
that our FBI is still as pathetic as it's always been. Anyway,
not to derail us onto that. But yeah, what else
you got? Good?

Speaker 19 (02:44:11):
All I said, just uh just you know, has just
thought about it. I'm a little I'm about to like
the natural straits. There's there's a lot of energy out
in the woods, and uh, you know, you can freak
yourself out, but once you get out there and get
get kind of you know, acclimated and stuff like that,
it's it kind of goes away.

Speaker 7 (02:44:30):
And it's like, I'm good and.

Speaker 19 (02:44:32):
Probably truly safer out there than you are in any
city right now for for damn sure. So so it's
it's it's, you know, it's good to get back out
the nature and and uh and.

Speaker 7 (02:44:45):
See what kind of things.

Speaker 19 (02:44:46):
But uh, you know, but you know, I believe I
think a lot of the people you know, maybe run
over here is you know, we can kind of have
a sense of energy, and if we do, if you
do have films of energy, it might be good to
move on and find any little spot another put it.

Speaker 2 (02:45:05):
There's lots of.

Speaker 3 (02:45:05):
Wood, So yeah, don't go to here right there, definitely
don't right there.

Speaker 7 (02:45:10):
You're trust trust her intuition. Absolutely. I've I learned at
the hard way many times.

Speaker 19 (02:45:16):
It's on lots of things in life and and and
now it's if if my guts tell me something, I'm
running with it. And uh, we used to do that
to work all the time. And the guys at work.
I was like, you know, we were I used to
run an asphalt plan. I'm like, huh, that's we're cutting off.
He's like, what are you getting off? I was like, yeah,
it's trust me. I just you know, my guts tell

(02:45:37):
me cut off. He's like, okay, they cut the planet off.
And ten minutes later somebody called, I had a plan.
Uh the paper broke down, so we we need you
to shut off. I was like, hey, I'll shut off
ten minutes ago.

Speaker 2 (02:45:47):
You're good.

Speaker 19 (02:45:48):
And then how do you know that? I was like,
I don't know, Just I just that my gut told
me he had something. Something's up, and I shut her down.
And I've been a saved me a bunch of troubles
a bunch of times.

Speaker 7 (02:46:01):
So thankfully trust your intuition.

Speaker 3 (02:46:06):
Before you go. One quick story for me. My grandfather
was a was a police officer in southern California, and
sometime in the sixties, he did a routine traffic stop
and he told his story like ten times because it
spooked him forever that he just it was like a
routine traffic stop. He pulls over like a teenage girl.
She's like fifteen or sixteen or something, maybe not even

(02:46:29):
old enough to drive, who knows, but she was definitely
like kind of driving a little crazy and stuff. So
he like pulls her over to see what's up. And
then he's like there was something something that was just screaming.
His intuition just screaming at him, and he didn't know
what because there was nobody else in the car, didn't
seem dangerous, and it just seemed you know, maybe you know,

(02:46:50):
like somebody stole mom's car and went for a joy ride,
you know, like completely innocuous. Okay, let's get you back
home and you know, get this car back to where
it belongs. He he crept up along the side of
the car because his intuition wouldn't stop screaming, and he
leaned over to open the door because she wouldn't roll
down the window. And he opened the door and a

(02:47:13):
three point fifty seven magnum revolver rolled out of her
lap onto the ground. And there's there's absolutely no way
he could have known that because it's right and it
doesn't fit the profile, you know, a teenage girl with
a gun and the whole. But somehow he knew crazy.
And if he had again done like the normal traffic stop,

(02:47:36):
walked up to the window, knocked on the window, rolled
down the window, boom right, So that type of stuff,
Like I said, when your actual intuition screams at you
recognize what's happening, don't ignore it. Don't ignore it. Ricky,
you were the best brother.

Speaker 19 (02:47:52):
Absolutely appreciate you, and appreciate you having me, and appreciate
everybody out the calls and everything who just.

Speaker 7 (02:48:00):
Great time.

Speaker 3 (02:48:00):
For sure, you were the best. As you know, Ricky,
you know you love him. The Anything is Possible podcast
go check it out links from the description down below
Trouble Minds dot Org forts I Friends. It says, follow Ricky,
It's it's it's alphabetical right again, alphabetical. Do the thing
very easy. Check it out. He does live streams on
Wednesday with UH and other times too with Jamie and Dave.

(02:48:23):
Sorry I forget the name sometimes, but fantastic stuff going
over there, and do check it out again, trouble minds,
rug forts my friends. Scroll down a little bit and
follow Ricky. It's right there. You can't you can't miss it,
alphabetical follow Ricky. Please go follow Ricky and all the
places and yeah, great call. Uh answers a few questions,
many but what is that intuition effect? And like I

(02:48:45):
always say, there's there's a lot of things happening in
play in the human space that we ignore, and I
think we should ignore them less James, what do you got?
Take us home?

Speaker 17 (02:48:57):
Oh?

Speaker 11 (02:48:57):
So many things? Great college from everyone, Ricky and then Jen.
Always glad to have Jen on my show with me.
Funny enough, we're actually taking this weekend off because of
other plans, but the show is still going to come
out as usual, and she's the co host on my
show on Saturdays.

Speaker 12 (02:49:17):
But yeah, I.

Speaker 11 (02:49:19):
Find it really amazing how if you look into all
these things, whether it's the woods, whether it's the desert.
Even I've heard of weird accounts out there there.

Speaker 12 (02:49:29):
I do agree with Jen there's two worlds. There's the civilization,
there's places where people are all packed in, and there's
this just the rest of the world and you know,
nature and everything and there is I do think it's
important to trust your intuition out there wherever you're at,
whatever environment you're.

Speaker 11 (02:49:45):
In, because a you never know what predators might be
out there, as far as animals or people that might
not be have the best intentions. But also there's all
kinds of reports everywhere all around the world, all kinds
of experiences people have with other beings that they can't explain.
So and the threshold thing also, I think it's an

(02:50:08):
amazing parallel because you think about it, there's all kinds
of thresholds in the forest and the nature that out
there isn't that similar Also to the way in cities
there's all kinds of thresholds. There's doorways everywhere just all
over the place, in buildings and going into inti buildings

(02:50:29):
now and just within buildings. It's funny how they're so different.
But yeah, also in different ways so similar.

Speaker 3 (02:50:37):
Yeah, always in motion. The future is also always in motion.
The present is that if we don't recognize it when
it comes again, like I said, pressure gut it makes
It makes a ton of sense after the fact. But
when your intuition screaming, give it this space it needs
because it's picking up on things that you would never
dream you can actually pick up on. Back to the

(02:50:58):
Rupert Schildrake. And that's of just a couple quick shout
outs at tree Land T what's up? Sorry I missed you?
Uh dtm Steven England was here. I oxy you guys
are the best. Thanks for hanging out, Thanks for staying
up play with us, and yeah, answers a few questions
many that's really the mantra of this. And you decide

(02:51:19):
as always you decide. That's that's the entire point of
these ideas and conversations. James are the best. Thanks for
staying up late. So you are going to be around
this week or no, when are you taking off to
go stay elsewhere.

Speaker 12 (02:51:33):
This weekend. I'll still be online.

Speaker 11 (02:51:35):
I just won't be doing shows, okay, but yeah, I'll
be you know, not doing shows this right, well really
the rest of this week.

Speaker 12 (02:51:43):
But I have shows that will still come.

Speaker 11 (02:51:45):
Out the rest of this week, gotcha, okay, and to
regular schedule next week?

Speaker 3 (02:51:49):
Okay, just double checking, all right? So James will be online,
we'll be able to contact him, be safe, all the things.
Carney season has a hit at which also rings in
Spooky season. So very there you go, the countdown, the
inex verble march to Halloween begins. All Hallow's Eve will
become I don't know what would become. I don't know.

(02:52:15):
Hell yeah, that's right, Hell yeah, that's right. Five years
of James's podcast. There you go. See, look at all
the years, all the things. Time and pressure is how
water cut the Grand Canyon, as they say, sometimes all
you have to do is show up, because guess what
a lot of people don't show up, right right right?
Shut out sweets all the new mods over there on Rumbo.

(02:52:38):
Thanks for being cool and chill. Thanks for rolling through
all the ideas and being nice to each other, like
I said, like I've always said, this is a human space,
and if we can't be nice to each other, what
the hell are we doing? We may as well be
Republicans and Democrats and threatening to stab each other as
they are and the actual literal direct modern zeitgeist. We

(02:53:00):
don't have to do that stuff anyway. If you want
to help trouble minds, you know, what to do help
our friends Troubleminds dot Org Forward slash Friends. Scroll down,
there's a wall of people there. Shout out Dragon Rose,
I know I missed you too. We'll get you added
to the list. Look, if you should be on this list,
you should be like, there's no no, All you have
to do is help the show. That's it. One iota

(02:53:20):
repost us, tweet us, or spread the word, do whatever right,
call in once in a while, contribute in the chat.
That's it. It's very simple. Just help, just help a
little bit, and you are entitled to be added to
this list to a lot of amazing people. Over the years,
we've met that. You know, some come and go and
they're back and they're not back, and then some some

(02:53:41):
are here every single night. So shout out to each
and every one of you, and thank you for being
part of these conversations and caring about like I always say,
an unstructured weirdo space or whatever. I don't know whatever,
Trouble Minds Forward slash Friends, if you want to help
us directly spread the word. Let people know a call
conversations happening where we're not going to tell you who

(02:54:01):
to vote for. We're not going to chase down their
paradigms of ideas at the binary political space because everybody
else does it. So how about we do something else.
Let's think about the human experience and consciousness itself and
talk about how weird and wild. It gets very simple.
Bring people in and just remind them we don't do

(02:54:24):
shenanigans here. Like if you're going to come in here
and act like an act a fool, act a political
fool and try and go after people and tell people
they're wrong, that's not our game. We just don't do that.
You will get on my nerves instantly, So please don't
do that anyway. Bahe bah. Help our friends read the word.
If you want to help directly, you can sum up

(02:54:45):
on Rumble Shout Out rumblefam over there. Link's going to
be at Troubleminds dot org. If you want to help
directly in other ways, you can buy the AI music.
The rogue topas is now a thing and you can
check that out at troublefans dot com, or get the
the hottest Troubled Minds merch, the pats and shirts and
all the cool stuff. It's a Troubled Fans dot com. Yes,

(02:55:06):
it is a playo OnlyFans. No, you will not find
Michael Strange at a hot Tubb, but you will find
the hottest troubled minds march around. That's how the original
commercial went. That's it. It's as simple as that's. I
appreciate you guys, Thanks for stay up late, Thanks for
bearing with all my imperfections and wondering freely about the
world we live in as we finish. This one goes

(02:55:27):
out to all the new mods on Rumble. Thanks for
bearing with me. Be sure, be strong, be true. Thank
you for listening from our troubled minds to yours. Have
a great night. Nice job, Ben, appreciate it very much.
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