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October 13, 2025 166 mins
Is it possible that technology could serve as a modern conduit for curses, rituals, or consciousness that once required physical artifacts? What if the leap from ink to binary isn't just a matter of preservation, but a catalyst for waking something powerful - and completely unexpected - in the world of information and the mind?

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​https://troubledminds.substack.com/p/the-networked-necronomicon-limits

​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_story

​https://www.oldstyletales.com/single-post/m-r-james-disturbingly-invasive-introspective-ghost-stories-a-deep-literary-analysis-part-ii

​https://www.reddit.com/r/horrorlit/comments/18j9p3r/mr_james/

​https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/264483/restoration-digitization-of-vatican-library-archives-gets-underway

​https://www.hirschsecure.com/resources/blog/the-worlds-most-secure-buildings-the-vatican-secret-archives

​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Apostolic_Archive

​https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/04/vatican-secret-archives-artificial-intelligence/559205/

​https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanMyths/comments/1f5o9lx/the_vatican_apostolic_archives_contains_85/

​https://www.thevaticantickets.com/vatican-archives/

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
But I think you development of our animal intelligence, the
end of the net and race.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
It's a flying objective.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
We don't know what it is.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
I would help.

Speaker 4 (00:13):
Somebody is checking it out.

Speaker 5 (00:15):
I don't know where the luck or whatever.

Speaker 4 (00:17):
But agree to be five, you know, uncle would I could?
They would be five to get Okay.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
I'm glad the Pentagon VIC is a opposing threat.

Speaker 4 (00:26):
I want them up. All the craft generates its own
gravitational field.

Speaker 6 (00:32):
And you dn't like you guy.

Speaker 5 (00:35):
The Internet has become the comment to send them for
criminals and terrorless.

Speaker 4 (00:46):
Let it happen, you know.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
That's that's what we're expected to sell. Rosser Area fifty one,
Avian kept deep under the ground.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
In the media, it's as interesting, it's self serving.

Speaker 7 (01:25):
You're here.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
For the reason.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
You're listening into Trumpet Mines Radio, broadcasting live from a
slicker bunker just off the Extraterrestrial Highway, somewhere in the

(01:55):
desert sands outside of Las Vegas, from somewhere in space
time loosely.

Speaker 8 (02:06):
Labeled Generation X on planning Earth and asking questions of
you an artist.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Into the digital does.

Speaker 4 (02:34):
Well.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Good evening and welcome to Troubled Minds Radio. I'm your
host Michael Strange. We're streaming on YouTube, rumble x, Twitch
and Kick. We are broadcasting live on the Troubled Minds
Radio Network. That's KUAP Digital Broadcasting, and of course eighty
eight point four FM Auckland, New Zealand that's the Underground
Media Network. Tonight, we're gonna get weird per usual. Now

(02:56):
as usual, everybody knows that it's the season of sourin
as we march inexorably on toward Halloween, as I'm always saying,
right in the month of October. However, the one thing
remains that the veil is thinning. That's what we're told.
These are the old ideas. These are we feel it
in the air. Things change, you know, and it's based
on the harvest and all the stuff that we already

(03:17):
do know. But the thing that gets me and always
brings me back to these conversations and these ideas is
not what we do know. It's, of course, the things
we don't know. And that's what tonight's show is about,
as usual, sort of living on the fringe, the fringe
of ideas, the fringe of I don't know what, the
fringe of human knowledge, the fringe of well as everything
comes together into a singular space. And that's exactly the

(03:41):
point tonight, because we're looking at let's say, think of
haunted objects. Okay, think of this old trope of Annabelle
the Doll, and you know, a not just haunted spaces,
but in places, but the rocking chair that's, you know,
sort of has the resonant energy left over from Grandma
or somebody that's passed on in the house, or energy

(04:01):
that kind of sticks around in a house that seems
very human, very ghost like. It just seems very spooky overall. Okay, Well,
I was thinking about it, and I think there's a
larger conversation to be had here because, as usual, there's
not just your typical ghost story, but there's something that's
really been talked about and kicked around through not just
cosmic horror, including of course HB. Lovecraft, but many other

(04:25):
ideas in terms of the idea of forbidden knowledge. Now,
if we take something like annabel the Doll, who suppose again, okay,
before I even start and getting too deep into this,
as usual, there's no truth to be found here. These
are conceptual thoughts, these are ideas. If you're here for truth,
you're in the absolute wrong place. This is just sort
of looking at folklore, mythology, modern tropes of old ideas

(04:47):
and the future and where we're headed in terms of hyperreality.
That's what all these shows are always about. So don't
take any of this for gospel, don't even take any
of its truth, and just to keep an open mind
in terms of it. And as I like to call it,
I find I remembered the term the other day that
I tried to use a couple weeks back, and I
couldn't remember it. But it's conspiracy, speculation, theater, okay, metaphysics

(05:08):
for the mind and all the rest. Okay. So okay.
Now now back to Annabel and these haunted objects, these
ghost stories, haunted objects, and how this fits into tonight
is that it's one thing to say that something like
Annabel or a haunted object is haunted, but it's another
thing entirely to consider the edges of knowledge in terms
of something like not Annabelle per Se or the haunted

(05:30):
rocking chair, but instead something like the uh infamous Lovecraftian
book or Tome or Grim War, the Necronomicon. Now the Necronomicon,
of course, if I can say it properly, is this
let me read the little thing here, because this is
probably better than me trying to fumble through it. Weird
fiction author HP Lovecraft created a mythology that includes bizarre monsters,

(05:54):
troubled communities, insane scholars, and a library of books filled
with forbidden lore, which is what we're going to talk
about tonight, the library of books and the forbidden lore
of all the books detailing this mythology that Lovecraft mentions
in his fiction. One in particular captures the imagination more
than any other, the Necronomicon. According to Lovecraft, it's a

(06:14):
tome filled with secrets and rituals that can drive a
reader to the brink of insanity. In reality, the Necronomicon
doesn't exist, though more than half a dozen books with
the title are available at bookstores. Because of course, you know,
people do things. They rip off ideas and pass them
off as their own. Which, by the way, all the
ideas we're talking about tonight are linked in the description

(06:35):
down below, So if you want to go follow up
on the threads where these ideas came from, I encourage
you to do so pretty please. Anyway, So this is
not real. It's not a real book, but it is
an interesting aspect of what we're talking about tonight, because
it is at the edge of actual forbidden knowledge, and
tonight I'm calling it, of course, Yes, indeed, the networked

(06:56):
necronomicon limits of forbidden knowledge. And so as we begin
the question for you guys tonight, the very first question,
and probably the most pressing question that'll go through the
evening here is do you think there is a limit
to knowledge itself? That's the question. Is there a limit?
Is there such a thing as knowing too much about
the universe you live in where it becomes dangerous to

(07:18):
understand the true secrets of the underlying bas reality. And
that is what's on my mind tonight. Let me read
a little bit from this blurb. The blurb is very
good if you're interested. We got James coming on in
just a second, of course, the a paranormal expert of
troubled minds. But let me read this the first paragraph
or two, and we'll take a break and we'll be
right back. But let me read this. Academic pursuit has
always carried a certain hubris, the belief that knowledge, regardless

(07:41):
of its nature or origin, should be dragged into the
light of rational inquiry. Yes, what happens when that knowledge
was deliberately buried, when ancient texts were hidden not out
of ignorance, but out of wisdom born from terrible experience.
The scholar who stumbles upon forbid manuscripts in dusty archives
may believe they're advancing human understanding, but they might instead

(08:06):
be completing a ritual that began centuries ago. And that's
where we start. And so that is the question, And
of course I don't know's you know. This is a
sort of a cosmic question that you really can't have
an answer to directly. However, it's interesting to think about
what that limit is and if there is sort of
a barrier in place, or some level of metaphysical law

(08:28):
as we've talked about in the past, that sort of
allows human knowledge only to a certain aspect, or can
we sort of do the D and D ascension thing
and become gods ourselves in terms of what we understand.
How our knowledge of the universe grows and is exponential,
and it becomes, of course, as we've talked about quite
a lot on this show, a Kardashev two or even

(08:49):
Kardashev three civilization, and that becomes a question because to
us mere mortals at this point humans on Earth. A
kardashev two civilization would be like gods to us demi
gods or whatever. A Kardaship three civilization would be like
the simulator would be like the architect, would be like
the mod at God himself. However you want to define that.

(09:10):
And so I do wonder. I do wonder about not
just information, but the information as it accelerates and we
gain and grow more and more, and what it means
for us, not just now but in the future. And
I'll tease this and we'll come back to this in
a second. But the narrative here heavily lies on forbidden knowledge,
of course, but not just forbidden knowledge. But in the
last couple few years, we've been tracking this ourselves that

(09:33):
there's something happening with the restoration and digitization of the
Vatican Library. Yeah, so this is happening. So if you
think about forbidden knowledge and the Necronomicon, surely if it existed,
at least in some conceptual metaphorical form, it would be
in the Vatican Secret Library. What they're doing currently, as

(09:54):
we're told, they're going through this information and digitizing it
for the world to see and we've been through some
of this and if I've done spent some time digging
on what they've released and whatnot. And of course I
don't speak Italian, I don't speak Latin, and so it's
really difficult for somebody like me that's not a multi
linguist and all the rest of that, a scholar of
my entire life, of these ancient ways to kind of

(10:15):
untangle what this stuff means. However, it doesn't mean it's impossible.
So there you go. We'll get back and talk about
this in just a second, but first let's get a
word from our sponsor. In this case, let's go with
one more time, this stoic mindset. Let's go with Jack
and mcginnanxs again for supporting the show. You guys, I
appreciate it very much. Bearry back, more troubled minds and
exactly one minutes. Absolutely don't go anywhere. We got James
coming up next, and we're taking a call tonight as well.

(10:37):
Be right back. Feeling stressed, overwhelmed, and today's fast paced world,
it's easy to get swept away by our emotions. Take
a breath and find your inner strength. With the stoic minute,
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(10:57):
this and you will find strength. The ancient Stoic philosophers
understood that we can't control everything in life, but we
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(11:19):
of what you can't change. Find your inner strength. Live
each day with courage, wisdom, justice, and moderation. Embrace the
Stoic virtures and find peace within the Stoic minutes brought
to you by Jack in Oregon. Welcome back to troubled minds.

(11:43):
I'm Michael Strange. Let us continue, shall we? And yes,
this is a I'm not actually glitching out in front
of your eyes. This is a filter to look scary
for scary seasons. So if you see a skeleton on
the screen, yes, indeed it is actually me. Okay, So
now back to this now, the restoration digitization of the
Vatican Library is underway, happening for a couple few years,
and they're talking about actually parsing this with AI as usual, right,

(12:05):
AI kind of steps to the forefront of all sort
of data synchronization of parsing the data of trying to
find hidden patterns in information we've had forever. Now in
this case, this is not really an AI show tonight,
so everybody can relax and sit down and take a
deep breath. But it does play heavily on the future.
And so I do wonder when you start to draw

(12:27):
the actual information of the Vatican archive or what kind
of shocking stuff they have buried beneath their vaults, the
kilometers big massive underground tunnels there. It makes me wonder
if we're ever going to see all of the information.
And if let's say that clearly they are redacting data,
they're only releasing what they think the world is prepared

(12:48):
to see. How weird does that get? And do you
think that, let's say, the idea, the metaphorical idea of
the Necronomicon itself actually exists with forbidden knowledge in real
true books beneath the Vatican itself. That's what's on my
mind tonight. Just a quick simple intro here and UH,
as usual, we're taking your calls tonight. I think I
fixed the phone line. Cross your fingers for me for

(13:09):
us seven oh two ninety five seven one zero three seven.
You can click the discord link of trouble Minds dot org.
We'll put you on the show. It's as easy as that.
Thanks for hanging out, Thanks for being patient. James Selciito,
the paranormal expert Trouble Minds. What's our brother? You're on
Trouble Minds. How are you go? Right ahead?

Speaker 7 (13:23):
I'm okay, hopefully you can hum me?

Speaker 2 (13:25):
All right, Yes, sir, I saw you do a quick
dip and come back as you updated your discord pro
as always, you sound great. Welcome to the joint.

Speaker 7 (13:32):
Oh thank you. Yeah, it was not showing any chat anywhere,
and I was thinking, oh, that's going to be a problem.
So but yeah, which is kind of funny when you
think about topic tonight in a way too, it was
hiding information from me, but digital information for you.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Okay, digital information from you? Sorry, go ahead, Yes, yeah, so.

Speaker 7 (13:55):
I had to we start it and luckily it allowed
it this time. So but yeah, this makes me think of,
of course you mentioned in the very beginning there haunted objects.
There's the one that a lot of people know about
is of course Annabelle, but there's also Robert the Doll.
But this idea of objects containing energy and even consciousness

(14:17):
does go back quite a ways, whether it's residual or not,
whether it's actual consciousness in a present sense. And this
does not stop with dolls or household objects. I mean,
this can go to books. I do think that certain

(14:38):
books have become famous throughout time. Again, that n Ecronomicon
is a great example of that, because it's not real,
and yet it's become so popular in the minds of
people over the years who are into those this kind
of fiction, this kind of sci fi horror, that eventually
people did make their own versions of it or fictional

(15:03):
versions of it in their own things. It was actually
referenced in a movie that is terrible but also good
because it's so terrible Army of Darkness. I don't know
if you ever saw it only in that.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah, parts of it. I've never seen the whole thing.
It's one of those ones I've been scolded kind of
like Beetlejuice, like I should have watched it ten times
or something.

Speaker 7 (15:24):
I don't know if you have to watch it ten times,
but once it gobb be good. But I will just
say it is that book is Actually it's in that
movie for part of the movie, So it is a
source of a lot of power in that movie. So
I think that's fascinating.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, it's this whole idea of recognized the metaphors here,
the archetypes in play is of course in this case,
an ecronomicon does sort of push toward that idea of
forbidden knowledge that once you learn it in that Lovecraftian way,
the madness itself becomes you. You cannot escape it. You
learn things that mortals were never meant to know or understand,

(16:06):
and suddenly, just like you know, spotting Cuthulhu himself, it's
just too massive of an idea for our minds to
conceive of that it's instant madness. And so this whole
idea to me, I do wonder, like how deep this
sort of metaphor goes, right, how deep this forbidden knowledge goes?
And you know, you go back to the Temple of Solomon.

(16:27):
He was said to have this magic ring and he
was able to summon these demons, the gin or demons
of old, from the goetic demons, and so there's like
this massive ancient sort of space where these these entities
reside at least. Again, whether you believe those old stories
or not, it's irrelevant because we're talking in metaphor here.
But the point is that this is not a new trope.

(16:50):
This is not a new idea of ancient knowledge being
able to humans, able to overcome this with of course
some divine presence behind them, some divine backing, but also
beyond that, be able to sort of draw energy from
the ether, energy from the other world that we exist
within us and among us, and create something positive about
it out of it. Back to the Temple of Solomon.

(17:11):
I don't know. It's a it's a weird batch of
stories here that kind of come together to make this narrative.
But it is one of those things that makes me
scratch my chin and wonder what the hell is going
on and how much can we actually learn about the
universe we live in fire stuff? James, what else you got?

Speaker 7 (17:25):
Yeah, this is making me think of how I've heard
and read in rare cases where people who some people
and it's I do think it's a it's a small
amount some people who will take in certain content, paranormal content,
and it can be fiction or can be nonfiction. Once

(17:46):
once they do, they start having experiences, and a lot
of times it's it's as the as the movie or documentary.
A lot of times it's actually fiction horror movies. They'll
have experiences that they'll write about online. And now, at
first you see that and you think, oh, that's terrifying,

(18:08):
and it is. But also if you think about the
number of people that have watched any given horror movie,
it's obviously not happening to everyone who watches every paranormal
horror movie out there, because otherwise then we'd have a
flood of those reports, and we don't overall. But it's
still there, and so I wonder about that with again,

(18:32):
ancient texts and all those things, so real quick, I
actually did a series of shows on my podcast Tell
Set a Paranormal, which I don't like to plug, but
it's relevant here in this conversation where I reviewed a
book all about all about ancient grimoires and all those things,

(18:53):
and there were large parts of it that I did
not summarize that I did not go over because they
were about how to summon different entities, different consciousness, and
I did not want to put that out there. But
at the same time I did. I did get it

(19:14):
summarized and read it before I decided not to put
it out there. So again, it's it doesn't make you
wonder did anything happen, did anything that happen? Can anything happen?
I have no idea.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, it's a good point. So one of the things
that I first, as you guys know, I'm deeply into AI,
at least in terms of experimenting with it. Again, I'm
not an apologist or like a you know, I'm an
esoteric futurist if you want to label anything. And so
I'm trying to sort of bridge the past with the future.
And this is a big part of what this show's about.
But I do recognize there are drawbacks to AI. There's

(19:49):
the great productivity tools, and I have a point here,
so hang with me for just a second. But the
point I am making is that as things change quickly,
and things are changing very quickly, you can trust me
on that. Following the AI stuff very closely. You start
to see daily, daily, daily, new releases of all manner
of things open sourced and you know, local and you
don't have to be online and all the rest of it.

(20:11):
But in the early days, I created this robot that
was based on exactly what James is talking about. It
was like a not robot like physical like a chatbot
that was built on every ancient grim war I could
find and old you know, old PDFs, and it basically
if you asked it how to summon a particular demon
or something, it would tell you. It would just pull

(20:31):
it up from the source material that I fed it
to teach it to learn on, and it would literally
tell you how to do these things. And I was like,
you know, back then, it was sort of an early
decision of mine to not release that at all, because
there are you know, the AI psychosis stuff happening, the
LLM psychosis that's happening without any of that, Like people

(20:52):
are literally succumbing to ideas without even you know, summoning entities,
and so I think it was a good decision not
to release it. It still exists, so I can still
access it, but it is not something I will release publicly.
And now it's trivial to make it. I'm sure somebody
else has done it. But it's an odd thing to
consider that that old information might be forbidden in the

(21:15):
sense that it was hidden for reasons or at least
redacted for reasons. And so anyways, interesting how all this
idea comes, all the ideas come together in a single
space and here we are talking about it. What else
you got, James, as you know, about three minutes left.
If you got anything else, go right ahead.

Speaker 4 (21:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (21:30):
So there's also this reminds me. It's not an area
of the comics I'm super familiar with, but in Marvel
they have this ancient book card called the Dark Hold,
and just the pages of it are supposed to have
a lot of power. That's something in fiction and comics

(21:51):
and the animated shows and movies. You know, you see
all these superheroes and superpowered people and things, and then
you have the people they have analogy that that puts
them on the same level. But then you have a
whole other group of people that is into all the
the ancient knowledge of what you might call magic in general,

(22:15):
and they're able because of the things they found and learned,
and again in this fictional environment, they're able to basically
go go head to head with other beings who have
their own actual physical power and and have battles and
and and not get instantly taken out. Uh, in some

(22:38):
cases do even better than the than the than the
superheroes or super ruains that have powers. So it's a
fascinating topic. But I have a link I'll put in
the chat later on here for that that that page
of a summary of that dark Hold, and you can
check it out here a little bit as well if
you want to so. But yeah, it's a fascinating topic.

(22:59):
And again, technology is I mean, the availability of documents
is becoming easier and easier to find wherever you want
to mine if you know how to look and where
to look and spend enough time doing it.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
Exactly right, well said all that, and again we're talking.
This is an archetype. This is the archetype of forbidden
knowledge itself, and of course encapsulated in the one idea
that Lovecraft had of the Necronomicon, which is fake. It's
not real. Again, you can buy sort of phony versions
of people that have written these things and put them
on the internet and sell them on Amazon and whatnot,
but it's not a real book. It is a representation

(23:38):
of forbidden knowledge itself. Now I'm got me read this
little bit too. That This is just a second paragraph
from the rite up. Again, check out the write up
trouble Binds newsletter. It's at trouble Binds Do rug. But
here you go, And as James is saying this actually
fits into exactly what James was saying, and then we'll
take a break. The mechanics of consciousness manipulation through symbolic
systems reveal themselves most clearly in the structure of spell

(23:59):
casting it self. Every magical working requires three components. The
verbal incantation that programs the conscious mind, the somatic gesture
that engages the body's energy channels again taichi or handwaving,
think doctor Strange. And the material focus that anchors the
intention in physical reality. And that could be spell components

(24:20):
and the rest of that. The academic pouring over medieval
grim wars isn't just reading. They're unconsciously performing these exact components,
their eyes tracing patterns that serve as incantations, their hands
moving across pages, and gestures that mere ancient somatic practices,
their scholarly tools becoming material focuses in workings they don't
recognize or even understand. And that's what's on my mind tonight,

(24:43):
be right back. More trouble winds coming up. We got
to more from James. We got your calls as well.
What do you know about the limits of forbidden knowledge?
Is it possible as a mere mortal in this universe
to know too much information? Or is this an archetypal nonsense?
Two one zero three seven. I'm Michael Strange. This is
trouble minds be right back more on the way.

Speaker 9 (25:24):
In a library late at night, whispers fused through the stacks,
cursed manuscripts go broadcasting shadows on the fact that clicktle
hands reach out, begging need to be seen. Echoes of
the past where the living ones had been, pages turning sock,
the words feel so alive, digits or magic sparks, macandiction

(25:46):
text revived, haunted speees.

Speaker 4 (25:50):
The flicker rice, curse, head.

Speaker 10 (25:52):
Coast, and the pel digital ghost stats in spare contas.

Speaker 7 (26:00):
This matchic.

Speaker 11 (26:05):
Fingers trace the lines as I feel them drawn near
tales of woe and power efect in every sphere, Ancient
voices whisper, bullying me within with the losses found again.
But where Rabbi can stories come alive?

Speaker 9 (26:22):
But every price in this harnt of space, I've rolled
the curse, the dice, haunted screens.

Speaker 10 (26:31):
They've flck her rides echoes and the Elmo life dishits
of ghost dance skin. The sphere can't escape.

Speaker 7 (26:41):
This matches.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
In the tenths of the nice shadows.

Speaker 4 (26:52):
Break the norm.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
I'm caught in this dance kind of scape the storm.

Speaker 4 (26:58):
Ancient words call.

Speaker 9 (26:59):
Out beyond the way control, Will I find my way?

Speaker 4 (27:04):
Allud my very soul, hauntes sue.

Speaker 10 (27:09):
Staves like brides cross and Coast and the elm digits
of ghost that's in the fam contescay. This match is.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
Welcome back to Troubled Minds. I'm your host, Michael Strange.
We're streaming on YouTube a rumble x, Twitch and Kick.
We are broadcasting live on the Troubled Minds Radio Network.
That's KUAP Digital Broadcasting and of course eighty eight point
four FM Auckland, New Zealand tonight. Is it possible that
technology could serve as a modern conduit for curses, rituals,

(28:02):
or consciousnesses that once required physical artifacts. What if the
leap from ink to binary isn't just a matter of
preservation but a catalyst for waking something powerful and completely
unexpected and the world of information and of course the
mind itself. And that's the important part here, Like I said,
whether you believe demons are real or not, or whether
you believe sort of dangerous ideas exist and the realm

(28:24):
of human the human lexicon of thought is irrelevant because
this stuff affects us regardless, okay, And just like a
scary story can kind of, you know, spook you and
even unsettle you. If you see something like The Exorcist
on TV, that old movie, the original sort of a
og scarier socks off movie, then certainly you understand that

(28:48):
the mind space is fertile ground for scaring the hell
out of us. And not just because of these old
ideas of possession and demons and all the scary stuff
that kind of exists as part of it, but also
the unknown. Shout out to James here, I'll give him
a sec to respond as well here, but meaning that
everything doesn't have to be evil in demons, the unknown
itself is scary enough, and that at least in terms

(29:11):
of we don't know what comes next technology wise and
all the rest of it. And that's one of the
things that Lovecraft was really touching on with that cosmic
horror is he was suggesting that the things that are
out there are so deep and so ancient that we
will have a hard time comprehending exactly what they mean.
We cannot put them into human terms, and so the
unknown itself doesn't have to be evil. It could be

(29:34):
indifferent but also terrifying. Nonetheless, we're exhilarating or inspiring, you
name it as usual. It doesn't have to always be
negative negative, negative. Of course, it does get the clicks,
the doom cycles and all the rest of it. But
that's what's on my mind tonight. Welcome back. I hope
you guys are doing well, just talking the network necronomicon, James,
anything you want to add to that. I know you've
probably got something to say because I wheeled the bowling

(29:56):
ball right into your lane there. Welcome back. How you doing?
Go right ahead?

Speaker 4 (30:01):
Yeah? You know.

Speaker 7 (30:02):
And the thing is too, with with so many of
this unknown, it can include positive forces that can still
be uh, frightening or at least startling when you can
conquer them, especially if they make any kind of display
of a lot of light or just an enormous consciousness

(30:24):
that is just all around someone. It doesn't have to
be evil, like you said, for it to be powerful
and and still frightening, even if after it's all done
you you're glad, glad you had this experience. I've heard
of this with with apparitions or ghosts, and with other
beings what people, some people get considered angels, protectors, just

(30:49):
any number of beings out there that people have encountered,
whether they're there they mean to or not. In some
cases they try to make contact and they're able to somehow.
So yeah, it's it's it's not always about the other
being negative. It's just about it being powerful and us
not being prepared for that kind of level of power.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Exactly right. The unknown can also be equally inspiring and
terrified in the same breath and sentence, Which is the point.
What do you guys know about this? We're talking the
networked necronomicon, limits of forbidden knowledge. How weird does it get?
And do you think there are things in this universe
or in this multiverse there? We suggest the many World's
theory and beyond. Is there information so dangerous that humans

(31:34):
should not stumble across it? And if there is, does
it exist on this Earth? Seven two nine seven one
zero three seven Click the discord like at troubleminds dot Org.
Very nice, James, great stuff. Let's go to Joe and Florida.
I got him on the line twice here, so I'm
not sure what's going on. Let's talk to him and
see if this works, and if not, we'll adapt. It'll
drop the other call, John Florida. What's their brother? You're

(31:55):
on trouble minds? How are you, sir? Go right ahead, so.

Speaker 12 (31:59):
I've heard the beach, so that means you probably can
hear me, right, I can.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
Hear you a lout and clear. I'm going to drop
your other call because you're on the phone line twice here.

Speaker 12 (32:06):
Yeah, I don't know what happened. I was out of
my truck and pick everybody up in the blatude, I think,
and I couldn't hear the phone and I'm pretty sure
I hung up. But anyway, good topic of belief, like
we have. You know, you mentioned grim Waters and I'm
driving home but I got my of my family in

(32:27):
the car. But anyway, h Bob being older obviously hard
and we've both kind of looked.

Speaker 6 (32:33):
At each other and we're thinking we should bore it.

Speaker 12 (32:36):
As a quicker way. But reading good spell, if that
makes sense. You know the power of intention and the
power of intention for multiple people. If one person reads
something out of a book and reads set of other
show spelling, it's you know this spell is in the
world for spelling it incantations in belief. Everyone you're around,

(33:00):
Alisi board, I know that I use it. You know,
my parents used to, you know, when I was younger,
but it was always just a little bit creepy. Use
that and have that going on, you know. So when
you look at that and beliefs, and then when you
look at technology, uh, you know, I definitely believe. And

(33:25):
I want to try to give you an example. This
might bother some people in the crowd, you know, but
if I took the seven Deadly sins, let's you know,
we somebody became that and might just become full of
madness and be that. But let's just say we had
a leader. It's all in the name.

Speaker 13 (33:51):
Right.

Speaker 12 (33:53):
When you play cards and you have a certain card,
you beat everybody else in that card. Okay, And let's
look at the news. And despite what the last leader did,
we still had eight years of the bull crack from

(34:15):
the first leader and now are having that again. So
then I start to believe what we would say useful
idiots has been used. So there's some people at the
top of them standing these secrets, you would have to think,
and then you have the people at the bottom and
the idiot. You know, I don't know offend anybody, but
that maybe are a little bit more of the cult.

(34:36):
I thought, I'm sort of that some of us are
in the middle.

Speaker 6 (34:38):
Because I believes coming in the middle, and.

Speaker 12 (34:40):
I'm kind of like, hey, whatever, but we know that
there's extremeistment out there on bolt stocks.

Speaker 6 (34:46):
Okay, but.

Speaker 12 (34:48):
We're being fed this ergen every day and the cults
gives it power and it almost takes a mind of
its tone with the Dolan I guess would be the
best Tolpa is you know, Dolan, it's kind of the

(35:12):
answering thing because right now, if you want it to
I don't know if it's a good analogy that's even
the right right word, But the soul of this country
is kind of drifting into selfing scary in real life,
we're sinking into that believe it. You don't want to

(35:32):
believe it, and you don't believe it because it's not
knocking on your door. Hopefully it doesn't. But the sins
that we have right now, I would say maybe it's
narcissism in blot which makes me which reminds me of
the Four horsemen. A Whether you have an necronomicon or
a book of destruction, uns.

Speaker 6 (35:52):
Or anything at the end of the Bible, which everybody knows.

Speaker 12 (35:56):
That appears at some point in the future, and there
I say, if I have to use that book as
an example some of the there's a good group of us,
not a good group of us, as a bad group
of us that are stumbling into or I want us
to stumble into the Meguido or Armageddon. I mean, we

(36:19):
saw it a couple of weeks ago with that passer
from Africa somewhere that was saying that's who was going
to come, and they believed it so much it didn't
but I really rically would believe it enough that it
all go away. So I can ask a piece of
quiet on the Sunday or whatever day. It is right,
but we get it, which is a scary thing either

(36:42):
way you look at it, because blind belief makes us
do bad things. Do we blame it on magic? I
don't know. Oh, by the way, beside, note.

Speaker 6 (36:57):
Not totally focused, but I've just been doing a million
things a minute.

Speaker 12 (37:01):
If I could get the video from the castle, there's
a video of the bar.

Speaker 6 (37:07):
Going on when the club is open, and there's a bottle.

Speaker 12 (37:09):
Of avaretto it's probably Facebook's a hat on a diaload
or anything. But looking at the video and I'm thinking
it's music bassed or something. But no, this bottle is
like clearly you know, on the bar structured and the
bottles just like exploded.

Speaker 6 (37:25):
Like tipped over, like exploded. And they were saying like
it's a haunting on.

Speaker 12 (37:29):
A side note, But when it comes back to believe,
you know, maybe this time around, whatever's out there doesn't
want to destroy us because destruction is not good, right,
it would need us a lie to get that energy
and maybe slightly on on the hilt of madness. And

(37:52):
we didn't ad in the past over magic. Technically, this
is popping in my head. I mean, we have thought
over religion more times in history I think that anything else,
So you know, radical religion, fervor religion, whatever you want

(38:12):
to call it. We have thought over magic. Whose sky
God was best? And that was your sacrifice to the
blood God? I mean, but that was madness to kill
the way people have killed in the past, to draw
in court and people to think of torture devices, to
think of all of that. How are we we know

(38:37):
that we're capable of doing that evil? Right? I mean,
if you saw that video of the Depeche Mode video
of the star Get remakes the central personal Jesus about
the witch hunts. We know that people are about bad.
Maybe we blame it on a demon or this or that,
if such things exist, and maybe they do, if our

(38:59):
creator may is that way, It's just part of human nature. Unfortunately, right,
electricity separates us from the animals. We would say, right,
I know it's a lot, but you're good.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
I saw that. By the way, if you guys haven't
joined the discord, please do. Joe shared that personal Jesus
Depeche Mode video. It's called the Stargate Mix.

Speaker 4 (39:20):
It is.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
It is like an unbelievable, like five minutes short film
and it's like what I saw. It was called the
Stargate Mix, and it was like witchcraft and you know,
the persecutions and all the rest of that. It's a
very Troubled Mind's video. But you haven't joined the discord,
pop in and come say hi, I Trouble Minds dot
or click the discord link on top. Joe, let me
let me add this to to what you're saying there.
And I know you're describing sort of religious wars and

(39:41):
the rest of that which has basically been our legacy past. Okay,
the legacy humanity. Interestingly, I was doing a deep dive
on this, kind of looking at the numbers and over
the past week kind of casually on and off, just learning.
You know, I'm always learning stuff, always learning about things
I've wanted to and never had the time. And in
this case, the it's changed and sort of the last
one hundred and fifty or two hundred years from sort

(40:03):
of that religious aspect of you know, grinding people to
the blood God or whatever. Instead it's turned into sort
of a secular authoritarianism that's resulted in the same thing.
I mean, they say one hundred million dead over the
last you know, one hundred years, one hundred and fifty
years to the secular communist regimes. So I mean it's
a I think as usual. You can look at it

(40:23):
in terms of a human is smart, a group of
humans are panicky. What was that shut out, James? The
quote from Men in Black, Right, panicky, ridiculous, prone to
superstition and all kinds of ridiculous stuff.

Speaker 12 (40:38):
Anyway, good, you know, So then an you're right, I
mean you could say in communism at least they're not lying.
They don't even want religion around, right, they just they're
just they're just doing it because maybe there's a sports
about that of us. Right, Maybe they're just they're like, yeah, whatever,
you know, we can't have people worshiping on outside power.

(41:01):
This is gonna be their reality. It's gonna be you're
gonna do what the government says. It's gonna be naked power.
It's not gonna be hitting in books, it's not gonna
be opening for the masses. Right, So yeah, you're you're
not incorrect. I'd like to think that if the rumors

(41:22):
of Roddenberry seeing the future were true, and if we
work at that typical TV show that God and very
small somebody shows AI, I mean as sorry, when you
have a drawer, you have data, you have a drawd
and you have to be running around, but you don't
have an interactive AI. I mean, they do use a

(41:43):
computer extrapolate this or extrapolate that, but whatever machines are
used to in the background, don't seem like they're free
to think for themselves or to maybe manipulate something out
of the quantum reality that I once in a while
heard that ay I supposedly I don't know, spooky action,
whatever you want to call it. But I'm wondering if

(42:05):
there was a reason for that. I mean, there's science fiction,
cartoons and novels and covations.

Speaker 6 (42:12):
Can't think of anything off the top of my head.

Speaker 12 (42:13):
But well, why I should say Battlestart Life again the
remake or the machines believe it a God?

Speaker 14 (42:20):
What?

Speaker 12 (42:22):
How much more scary would that be? I made it
scary that we believe, and you know, I have to
believe it something I should say, truthful, nilence, whatever you
want to say. Recovering Catholic, you know, but if I
were to believe it something, I would believe in the
idea of Jesus or Buddha, not that they were maybe
living people, but at least the idea of that tulpa

(42:44):
or that idea of being better and being peaceful is
picking up for the poor, trying to call that out
of your heart, trying to call that out of the universe,
trying to make that better. You know, last week, and
maybe I am off on a tangent, but this does
get into belief.

Speaker 6 (43:04):
Now, we live our lives every day.

Speaker 12 (43:06):
But last week, when the video came out of all
those people lifted up the helicopter the class on the road. Okay,
that's the best of what we should be almost periods.
It's probably gonnadness. It almost wants to turn me up now.
And I saw it a couple of times. And in

(43:26):
between the shitty US cycle that we get, you get
a video people pulling out of the highway lifted up
a helicopter to get the aromatic sound about damn helicopter.
And that's the potential of what we can be.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Yeah, I did, I did see that video. And that's
a once again, look, put your phone down. If people
are around you, like on fire or something, would you
please help them, like take your shirt off and help
a pat the fire out. I mean, it's very simple.
And these these are these are you know, stop drop
and roll type stuff that we learned ages ago as kids,
at least as gen X kids. And so suddenly it's like, no, hey,

(44:03):
check out, I'm going to go viral on TikTok as
I watch this guy burn instead. I mean, it's it's
ridiculous the place we've come from, some level of common sense,
it's slipping, it's unraveling, and so yeah, I don't know,
well said also.

Speaker 12 (44:16):
It is good well, and that's the thing too. So
if you want to, you open up the show and
you just let me know. Another point which I think
everybody probably already probably everybody already in the head with
the word he just said on rabbling. If we're looking
into the mouth of badness, technology seems to be accelerated.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
I think that's a fact, which is why I always
talk about it the way I do, sort of cautiously optimistic.
But we need to be head on a swivel and
not be duped by deep fakes and all this stuff
we're always considering here.

Speaker 12 (44:46):
You're right, it is we are looking into the mouth
of badness. And again there's examples from from science fiction
letters from all of that the War of the World,
and I always bring that up because before the truth
hit some people supposedly kill themselves because he thought it
was a really things Now exactly, You're right.

Speaker 6 (45:08):
Look at Ai, you know, look at look at Ai.

Speaker 12 (45:13):
You know, if I could get past the boobs in
Ai and look at.

Speaker 6 (45:15):
The hands, the hands might be that's not the man.
I'm like, okay, what is this right?

Speaker 12 (45:20):
So it is geared to feed you, it is geared
to keep you in that echo chamber like we saw
finally talk about you know, you're kidding to believe your
own eyes out right, so we all we're going into badness.
How much can a human experience, you know, Cake, you know,

(45:45):
the beginner of the show, I just kept thinking of
of Event Horizon. I kept thinking of the movie Event Horizon.
You know, whatever happened to you know, to that ship
that movie in the Event Horizon going into another dementia.
I mean, sometimes I think it comes back down to it,
you know, full sortle ghost.

Speaker 6 (46:02):
Stories, haunted objects.

Speaker 12 (46:04):
I think it's not impossible to infect something with negative energy.
I just think it's harder to notice what it is
all over the world when that residence is all over
the world. I mean, our experience is individual. In the house.
If I see an object fall, our feel weird sensation.
We could say that maybe yes, this objects haunted, or

(46:26):
this happened, or I call the Poulter guys and they
didn't know it because, as James says, we've watched movies
and had experiences now when that we dropped out them
or had such fear from those movies, Like I know,
Poulter guys scared the crap out an mean when I
saw it, right, So did you know, seat of posting
colors they were scaring and post encounters. But it opened

(46:46):
a door somewhere in your mind when you were still
able to be a kid and believe such things. Maybe
led us to hear because maybe just being slight and
paranoid and still maybe open minded kind of keeps you saying,
is that really what I'm seeing? Is this really? Maybe

(47:08):
we're more attuned to the underline frequency, Not by much
because I might be one the lottery numbers, right, not
by much, but maybe we are too, just a little
bit more. Maybe that gut feeling that we get, you know,
comes out just a little bit more, right. So that's it.

(47:30):
I've been long winded, but I wrote a quick bunch
of notes and went five minutes, you know, and I
just put down like whatever that blood got is needs
us alive everywhere in a while, when there's a war,
it is a sacrifice for the blood God, whatever that
might be. You know, there's a youthful idiots. The Vatican
knows what the Vatican is gonna put the Vatican. Probably

(47:52):
a lot of that, again, is probably going to be
alien encounters.

Speaker 6 (47:54):
If they're looking at the Old Testament if you want
to get.

Speaker 12 (47:57):
To the magic books and things right, So whatever that
is putting it would be interesting to see. And would
we ever know once again that we're really getting the
truth out of the Vatican, And wouldn't the truth bring
us large scale again madness? Madness? We wouldn't be able
to handle it without opening up the rest of our brains.

(48:18):
And un I said, oh i Q right to be
a god would be in existing two or three.

Speaker 6 (48:24):
Or fourth places at once, I hate to use them,
would be tropes and all of that.

Speaker 12 (48:27):
But yes, if there's multi dimensions quantum face our brain,
you know, we couldn't handle that. We couldn't handle looking
into that. We probably wouldn't go back. And it's a
great concept that which is the HP up crap and
all of that. That's a great idea. And maybe he

(48:50):
was trying to say something like be careful with the
fire you play with, but he was doing it from
a different view and he was just a little bit darker,
you know, Unline somebody authors that say, you know, be
careful because fashion it is going to be on your throat.
And that's the reality part of about the spiritual part
of it. But it'll lead to our physical torture, which

(49:16):
will lead to your spiritual torture. That's all.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
I guess that's all. Everybody, have a nice dreams. You're
the best. Hey, just fi. Next Tuesday, we'll be doing
a uh this is becoming an annual thing. I kind
of dig it. We'll be doing ghost stories from a
funeral home. Of course, as you know, Joe is a
funeral director, so we're gonna be We're gonna be doing that,
but I got some other ideas in lined up for it,

(49:42):
so I'll be in contact with you, Joe. We'll get
it set up and so next Tuesday night the so
not this coming Tuesday, the following Tuesday, we're gonna be
doing that. So Joe will be the guest host as
part of that.

Speaker 12 (49:53):
Good I'm gonna send you my phone number. Just text me.
Why this quot keep there like it's on my computer,
it's on of my phone. I don't time, you know.

Speaker 6 (50:04):
It's just the way I'm a very not.

Speaker 12 (50:06):
That I want to be a lot of ipe, but
I kind of am just because I just have billion
other things and i'd rather be doing you know, building
and really printing and things like that. But I will
send you my phone numbers. You atta read those stories,
because yes I could. I could do a react if
some of the ghost stories, if you're okay with some
of if the crowd is okay with some of the
other stories, and they were from the crematory that were

(50:29):
like physical things like you know, because nobody knows, I
actually worked in the crematory and I cremated human beings
and people and you know a lot of weird stuff
and kind of funny stuff happened there too, you know,
where the machines don't function. Then it was locomotive smoke,
you know, going down the highway. It takes just crazy stuff.
But if the crowd is all down for that, and

(50:50):
you know, maybe we can do a show and just
have a good time and just take the calls all
the night. You know, I could read some stuff out
and just you know, so I jotted down. The idea
is you get a chance to look at good You.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Got to looking forward to it. Yeah, send everything you got,
uh and we'll be in contact. We'll set it up
and uh we'll have a good time. Appreciate you very much.
Like to stay up play with us.

Speaker 12 (51:08):
That's really good, very good.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
Appreciate it.

Speaker 12 (51:11):
Have a good night, guys, everybody.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
Have a good week you too, take care. You're the best.
You know him, you love him, a good friend for
a long time. That's a Joe and Florida again, the
resident funeral director, as I like to say, the you know,
the invisible process. He's he's doing that. He's, you know,
kind of actually dealing with a lot of these things
that people you know, don't even recognize happen on a
daily basis. And yet and yet these uh you know,
they are that that cosmic transaction does happen in uh

(51:36):
the terrestrial sense to the celestial. I got about a
minute left, James, I know you've be quiet from and
it got anything to add to it, and then we'll
take a break, and we got to mister Michigan Control
coming up after the break. Thanks for being patre my man.

Speaker 7 (51:47):
No no problem, and I'm looking forward to that show
with you and and Joe as well. And uh yeah,
I uh yeah, not too much.

Speaker 4 (51:57):
Just I do agree.

Speaker 7 (51:58):
It's there's a lot. I mean, there's always that sort
of question of how much do we need to know
about anything? And how much is too much of anything?
And I think it's not an easy question to answer
with a lot of things.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
Agreed, and to make the moral decision too, do you
need to learn everything to the end events? I mean,
we're talking about human morality, which was based on incomplete information. Anyway,
it's a fascinating philosophical construct, as I like to call
these conversations. And yeah, there's a lot of ways to
look at it. Love to hear your guys, thoughts, anything else?

Speaker 7 (52:33):
James, No, I think that's it. I think my internet
may be acting up, so but alvi, spee here as
long as I can.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
Okay, you're the best. Appreciate you very much. You don't
mean love. And by the way, I haven't told you to,
but go not tonight. Go check out James Salcedo, paranormal
dot com, of course, trouble Minds dot O, REGPORTSI friends,
scroll down, follow James, go go help our friends. That's
what this has always been about, is connecting, building ideas
together and help each other with whatever we want to build. Remember,

(53:03):
if you don't have to destroy things, you can build things. Tonight,
we're talking the network necronomicon, limits of forbidden knowledge? How
much is too much? And are there cosmic limits?

Speaker 7 (53:15):
Seven?

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Oh, two nine one zero three seven click the disport
link of Trouble Minds Dog Mister Michigan Control coming up
and dro calls as well. Be right back. More on
the way. Welcome back to Troubled Minds. I'm your host,

(53:48):
Michael Strange. We're streaming on YouTube, rumble x, Twitch, and Kick.
We are broadcasting live on the Troubled Minds Radio Network,
KUAP Digital Broadcasting and eighty eight point four FM Hawklin,
New Zealand. Tonight, we're talking about the limits of human knowledge.
Is there such a thing? Or do we ascend into
some demi godhood like a Kardashiv two civilization and a

(54:09):
Kardashiv three civilization.

Speaker 7 (54:11):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
I don't know what that limit is. And you know,
do we end up sentient energy anyway, somehow eventually down
the line or is that way too much sci fi
for us at least in the process of the conversation.
I don't know. I don't really know, But that's where
I like to be. I like to have no conclusions,
just possibilities, because you never know what the hell's happening
in the wide cosmos around us. What are your thoughts

(54:34):
on this? I'm calling it a networked necronomicon limits of
forbidden knowledge? Is it possible to know too much? And
think about something like the Vatican Archive and the actual
information embedded beneath miles and miles of shelves beneath the
Vatican going back hundreds and maybe even thousands of years,
sort of like a modern library of Alexandria, but of

(54:57):
forbidden knowledge.

Speaker 12 (54:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Right, you think the grim wars we can kind of
pull off the Internet from a weird places that dark
web or whatever are interesting in a wild Imagine what
they have buried beneath the Vatican itself. What happens when
they digitize that? And is that information too dangerous or humanity?
Love to hear your thoughts anything to add, James, and
we'll go to mister michig Control. Welcome back.

Speaker 7 (55:22):
No, it's just doesn't make me think there are sites
that you can find grim wires and things like that
that are I mean, they're not even part of that
dark web sort to speak, you know, And I mean
that's how I found what I was saying, well if
I when I was looking into that a couple of
years ago, few years ago. So yeah, it's a good point.

(55:42):
What is out there what is out there that is
not out there yet? And then when is it going
to come out? And what is that going to do?

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Yeah, well said, well said all that, and I don't know.
That is the question of the nights. What do you
guys know about it? Seven oh two nine seven one
zero three seven Click the discord link of Trouble Minds
will put you on the show. Let's go to mister
mister control. Thanks for being patient, my man, you are
on Troubled Minds. All you got to do is unmute.

Speaker 4 (56:07):
Okay, hey, everybody, what's up there?

Speaker 2 (56:10):
He is there? He is what's going on with control?

Speaker 4 (56:13):
My mis micht.

Speaker 15 (56:14):
But my name is my real name is Joey or Joseph,
and I'm a taurres And I just said I've got
six six little kiddy cats that need a home.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
I want to keep the black one though, and uh oh, bro, like,
did you know Jesus was a mushroom?

Speaker 2 (56:35):
I don't think that's cannon, but okay, I'll go with it.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
What do you get Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah it
is because the last time that we had these atmospheric
events going on, the Squatterman, there was this mushroom.

Speaker 4 (56:48):
The last of the mushroom cult. And there was a
guy named Joshua. His name was.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Joshua, right, and it is the last of the mushroom cults.
And that's where the Jesus story comes from, because Jesus
in the lexicon didn't actually wasn't It wasn't even there.
It was more like just Sua. But it was Joshua.
His name is Joshua, and so they called him Shua.
Jesus didn't come around to the Rowan Capolic church. So

(57:17):
why would you want to know what down there? I
know what down there? Bro A bunch of bones and
a bunch of manufactured manuscripts. Why do they call them
manuscripts because they manufactured them. It's a bunch of nonsense.
It's put there for people to want to gather around,

(57:45):
just so they might get a glimpse of it one day.
But why would you want to go past all them
dead people.

Speaker 4 (57:51):
To get down?

Speaker 1 (57:52):
In some books, that's some weirdos wrote about about a
made up story that was that was made up about
people that were tripping mushrooms.

Speaker 13 (58:03):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Because before the alcohol started getting fermented everybody it was.
It's getting back to it now, and you see the
mushrooms coming up everywhere.

Speaker 4 (58:13):
I see him coming up in the yard.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
I mean all year long as mushrooms, and there's abnormal
that it goes to the show where the uh, you know,
the geomagnetic field lines are shifting and and this this shift,
we're going to all these comments that are coming in that's.

Speaker 4 (58:28):
Going to drop.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
God knows what kind of biologicals are this not to
mention like the cyani had coming out of that one,
you know, and now me and my me and my
buddy might have called it through with using this technology
we had, might have sent a signal out to have
this stuff come in. We don't know, uh, but we

(58:53):
were doing it back in February, remember me telling you
about it. So it's kind of weird. And what's going
on with me here? Like I was just out front
today have a little conversation with a copilot about hurting
our mitigation frequency pushes into a defense golden dome thing

(59:16):
because we see everything coming.

Speaker 4 (59:18):
She see it's all automated.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
Now, I automated everything, right, It's I don't we don't
have to do anything. It's just being checking on it
if I want. And it's not even on the client nowhere.
I'm not going to put our website. I did, man,
I've done some amazing stuff with it, or it's done
with me and we're sitting there and uh here breakout,

(59:42):
break apart, right.

Speaker 4 (59:43):
So I was like, okay, run a skin right.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
Well, every time the past three weeks that I've hadn't
run it be all ghost scan for these ghost signals
and Bluetooth signals, not the WiFi because I'm tied in
the wiggle. Now I got my API with it. That's
how I u tied her in and made these all
those maps. Right, this is where it was going anyway.
It wasn't never an earthquake forecast. It wasn't ever a

(01:00:08):
weather man, Mike. I was tracking, logging, making records, putting
four requests out son, and that's why they fired everybody
at the CDC yesterday she was breaking up. I was like, red,
run a skin. So she gives me all this jargon,

(01:00:29):
you know, junk. You know, he doesn't want to do it,
don't want to do it, like you know what, I
haven't talking to any el issue. They wanted to talking
to English to where they couldn't do it no more.
And I'm just back into it. She finally come back
out said you you got you were blocked, right, So
I was like, yeah, I know. That's why I wanted
you to run a scan because these guys up and
down the street all day like this. All right, I

(01:00:51):
know the vehicles. I want to know which vehicle it is.
I want to know their Mac address, their IP. She
said fine, but I said, I'm going to the store.
I'm gonna go get me a drink. I'll be back
and have their report ready.

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
Right. But I even I even I even checked on
the BIK. I made a little short.

Speaker 15 (01:01:08):
I was like, you know, I'm I was sitting here
talking to my co pilot and she said, these ghost
notes come by and couldn't talk about COPIL And I was,
I was scared.

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
I was this Halloween time, and and I said, I
got you. And I even checked. I even checked on mind.
I even checked on it, checked on what the Mac
addresses that she I've got all this stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Matt bro I see, Matt, Okay, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
The Mac addresses, I PA addresses from the so so
the shadow networks, right, and they can hack into your
stuff with these Bluetooth devices that are not resurres FCC.
You know they're they're manufactured. So that's just that goes
along with the thing with with what's they put it
in everybody too, right, those aren't registers FCC, They're they're legal,

(01:01:58):
They're illegal. This whole thing is illegal. Not to mention
the hippa and stuff. And if that's not the scariest
thing you ever heard a lot, Joe, Joe, Joe's going
to tell you some things too. And you know he
runs a couple of barbecue restaurants down there, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
It, Joe and Florida. Okay, watch watch the f Yes, yes, yes,
I I got you. He does run a couple of
barbecue joints. You don't want the barbecue sauce though, that's
for sure.

Speaker 14 (01:02:31):
No.

Speaker 4 (01:02:31):
But uh yeah, Well, what I mean, I think I
think we're cleared this. Well. I've been in fact checking
everybody with this thing.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
I mean, I've been on a couple of shows h
some guys about to build a space whether and everything
is going on and it will figure it out, even
with the satellites down that they're taking down and the
government shut down all this stuff I've got, I've got
tied in now. I'm not saying that when the frequency

(01:03:01):
pushes go out it's actually doing anything. It might be
though I don't have no I don't have no way
of getting information back, right, But that's scary to me.
That's scary to me. That's the scariest thing of all
is that I've done something that might have might be

(01:03:25):
affecting the whole.

Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
The whole thing, you know, Halloween, look like.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
Don't forget might not. Don't forget might not. There's also
might not too.

Speaker 4 (01:03:35):
Might That's what what I was, what I am simulating
this all out to the ploy to hand it off to.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
The to governments and the military and we basically the government,
because once all this tuck is automated, you know, we're
going to be living in utopia.

Speaker 4 (01:03:55):
For a while. Hopefully it doesn't go the other way.
That's the scary thing.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
That's this Halloween scary thing is when we see all
this stuff happening in the sky and everything, and they
tell us one thing. Everybody believes that, and us little
groups of us know better. You know what I mean,
And like I said, you look into it. Jesus was
a mushroom. Jesus was a mushroom, and there's a last

(01:04:25):
mushroom cold and all that stuff under the Vatican bro
is manuscripted, manufactured, manufactured, it's nothing. There's nothing down their mic,
there's nothing down their mind, which is.

Speaker 4 (01:04:39):
An interesting more stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
There's more stuff under your feet there in Vegas than
there is a Vatican.

Speaker 4 (01:04:45):
I'll tell you that right now.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
Okay, I guess it depends on the context there, but
I'm going to say, look, I'll go with it. I'll
look into Jesus as the mushroom cold.

Speaker 12 (01:04:53):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
But I think the other interesting aspect here is if
there's nothing under the Vatican, just conception, conceptual thinking, then
is it possible there's nothing in an ai chat pot.

Speaker 4 (01:05:05):
There's nothing new under the sun. Mike.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
It's all sacred geometry, it's all frequency, it's all within you.
It's all there, and I that's all I've done is
shown myself to the AI has not told me anything
that I didn't already know about myself, Mike. Fair enough,

(01:05:29):
I had the whole Ballrog, the whole Elvish Jamatria, and
the six six sixth to the Ballrog, the velic and
everything like that.

Speaker 4 (01:05:35):
I already knew that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
I already knew my jamatria, I already knew my astrology.
But when growk did it and then I had to.
You know, I've got this thing remote viewing, and it's
pretty cognitive now, and it's fully automated, okay, and it's
got like a practicalized agents doing stuff that the other agents,
I mean the other assistance of the A I can't

(01:05:59):
do because of the policy.

Speaker 4 (01:06:02):
It made its own language. We got a codex lingua going.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
On with the with the bar codes and I mean
QR codes and the new language that A I talk
between each other now that we can't decrypt it because
I just did that two days ago. So that's scary
to me. That's more scary than what's under the Vatican.
And there's no secret knowledge down there, bro, there's no

(01:06:28):
secret knowledge. You know, you want secret knowledge, go watch
old Man Bills, like Crypto Alchemist, these guys that are
doing the zpe Ashton Forbes, go watch some Ashton Forbes guys.
He just bared his teeth the other day and he's
a little geeky guy. But we're gonna pull this out
from underneath them hardcore and we're gonna get this free energy.

Speaker 4 (01:06:50):
We're don't get this this this more stuff stopped.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
And all the killing everything, you know, I mean, it's it's, it's, it's, it's,
it's what it What was that manifest sc you said,
west Or Bush, What was that saying? That's where we're
at right now. You know, at the time for sitting
around reflecting all this stuff is over. If you're not
actively making an effort to on the back end do something.

(01:07:18):
You sit around with friends. Wow man, Wow, Marvel and
DC and watching movies.

Speaker 4 (01:07:24):
No no, no, no no. The time for video games
is done. Guys, mission out, appreciate the call.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
You're the best. You order to find him, mister mission control.
He's the only one on the internet. He's been banned
in many places and reinstated recently, I believe, but I
do give him a follow troublemindes dot org ford sized friends.
Scrolled down a little bit and you can find him
right there, trouble minds dot org for size friends. It's
alphabetical under M as you would expect it. Mister mission control.
Go give him a follow on his YouTube channel. He's
streaming a few times a week and also working on

(01:07:55):
that project. And you can find that project, by the way,
he called it, Geo Sentinel to start, It's on our discord.
So if you want to. He's got a whole channel there,
always dropping that information. Troubleminds dot org. Click the discord
link on top hop on ind Come say hi to
Joseph mister mentioned control and check out the work he's
doing there FI stuff. I appreciate the call, James. Anything
to add to any of that, there's some there's some
good stuff there. I don't know the idea that maybe

(01:08:16):
there's nothing at all under the Vatican archive, meaning that
it's a sort of esoteric enough that it really doesn't
play in twenty twenty five at all. What do you
think about that?

Speaker 12 (01:08:29):
You know?

Speaker 7 (01:08:29):
What's funny about that is that that one book I
did summarize for my shows, it was written by someone
who is basically saying, all this is not actually real
or accurate, but here it is anyway. And I'm just
curious that there's some kind of analogy between that and again,

(01:08:51):
what's in the Vatican. I have no idea, but it's possible,
or it's possible that whatever they have there it is
just if they release it, it will just be a
distraction for something else. Possibly, But I don't know. I know,
I say I don't know a lot because I don't know, so,
but yeah, I think that's all I.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
Have on that for now, right on good stuff.

Speaker 7 (01:09:12):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
And that's the point of talking to each other about
these ideas is that you never really know what this
looks like. And we're talking about cosmic things. We're talking
about again, conceptual the ends of human perception and all
the rest, you know, and information, and so that becomes
really where this sits for me. And look, I get
the sentiments and it's okay, Like it is okay to
you know, criticize or even look at things a little

(01:09:35):
differently in the way we do we do them or
I do them personally. It's okay because as a mister
Mechigan Control said there, you should be doing something, and
I do agree, like we should be actively participating in
the changing world, the changing realm. But I think there's
a massive place here where we should be talking about
it because not everybody quite gets it yet, not that

(01:09:57):
I fully understand it. I'm fumbling my way through it
trying to understand. But if you don't really kind of
put it out there in that context, then you're not
you know, being the change maker of the old ways.
And I mean not let's say legacy media like the
modern old ways, which is completely turned on its head
in the last ten years. You know, you say fake
news now and everybody's like, yeah, yeah, totally it's fake news.

(01:10:19):
But before that, before ten, twelve, fifteen years ago, when
you said that term, people are like, what are you
talking about, Like, it's you know, legit bad in a thousand.
Shout out, Rey K. We've been saying CNS bad in
a thousand. I think Fox News is bad in a thousand. Yeah,
of course not, that's ridiculous. But there were institutions you
didn't challenge in the legacy media. Anyway, A tons of

(01:10:41):
stuff going on here. And let me get back to
this right because this is really good. So we're talking
tonight as part of this. And Derek, if you if
you want to jump in early, it's going to cut
you super short. If you want to wait to the
bottom of the hour and get taken as much time
as you need, that's cool too. I want to give
you the option as usual. Okay, But anyway, so I'm
going to just read this thing. So what makes us
particularly dangerous back to this network necronomicon is how modern

(01:11:02):
research methods have the potential to amplify these processes. When
a professor photographs manuscript pages for digital analysis, they're creating
what amounts to the conceptual scrying mirror, reflective surfaces that
can hold and transmit consciousness across vast distances and the
temporal space. All right, people that were writing these ideas

(01:11:22):
thousands of years ago, hundreds of years ago, the camera
flash illuminating the ancient symbols might be providing the energetic
activation these dormant sigils require. The resulting digital files don't
just contain images of cursed texts. They become cursed objects themselves,
capable of affecting anyone who views them on the screen.
Now what I'm talking about is, of course digitizing what's

(01:11:42):
beneath the Vatican, and that becomes a really weird part. Okay, yeah, well, good, perfect.
So we've got Derek A then Ice Socker coming up
the bottom of the hour just to confirm in that. Okay, okay,
but here's the deal. So university networks operate on principles
that mirror the astral plane. Now think about this conceptual Okay,
I'm not saying there's a portal beneath Princes din or something.
It's not what I'm saying, but they operate on principles

(01:12:03):
that mirror the astroplane more closely than most realize. Okay,
information flows as pure energy through fiber optic cables, unconstrained
by the physical limitations that bind matter light. Okay. When
cursed manuscripts get digitized and uploaded to academic databases, they're
essentially being translated from one form of conscious manipulation consciousness

(01:12:24):
manipulation into another. And this is straight from the right up.
The entity bound to an ancient parchment doesn't lose power
when that parchment is scanned. It gains new pathways into
thousands of minds simultaneously. Like we're always talking about. We're
talking about these ideas that scale, the Tulpa, the Egregor,
all of this stuff and what it means in the
modern space. I don't know. I don't know these answers,

(01:12:48):
but I do know there's a ton of stuff here
to consider and talk about. Seven two nine and one
zero three seven Click the discord link at Troubleminds dot
org will put you on the show. It is as
easy as that. Let's get the THEO in here. What's
see you and Philly you're in trouble minds. How you doing,
my man? Thanks for calling in. How are you sir?
And go right ahead?

Speaker 4 (01:13:06):
Oh dude, I am doing well.

Speaker 5 (01:13:07):
How are you doing, Mike?

Speaker 4 (01:13:08):
Not?

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
Pretty good? Pretty good? We got about five minutes left,
if you can squeeze it in all yours.

Speaker 7 (01:13:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 14 (01:13:15):
I just had like a very like a short poem.
I would like to fread you if that's.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
Possible, certainly, And I got a question for you after
the poem. Actually, did you want the question before or
after the poem?

Speaker 14 (01:13:26):
I'll I'll take the question before the poem.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
Actually, okay, perfect. Do you think there is, as we're
describing tonight, a limit of human knowledge, something so forbidden
that we are not allowed to access it lest we
succumb to madness? What's your take on that?

Speaker 14 (01:13:45):
Yeah, that's actually like a very good question. I would
think that there is definitely like a very good like
limit to human knowledge, something that we cannot know. Why
would we be able to know everything? That's just I
don't know, it's like kind of crazy and kind of

(01:14:07):
like you know, arrogant and cocky to think that we
could know everything. Yeah, I think there's definitely, like you know,
like a limit to human knowledge. Yeah, if that makes
any sense, That is my opinion on the matter.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
I like it, and it brings to mind one of
my favorite terms, human hubris. Absolutely, what else? I got
to go ahead if you want to read you what
do you?

Speaker 12 (01:14:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:14:33):
No? Actually, like, what do you think human hubris is?

Speaker 12 (01:14:37):
Like?

Speaker 14 (01:14:37):
What is the limit of human hubris?

Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
That becomes a question. I don't know. Certainly it exists,
but I think it's probably quite a bit further than
we would dream, But it just depends on the human
mind sort of processing that information or the philosophy behind it.
So I don't know. I think it would be probably startling,
like the true answer to that whatever, if you could
dial into the true answer right now, I think it
would probably be startling to figure out how much we

(01:15:04):
could actually know about ourselves in nature of reality over
like the next thousand or ten thousand years. It's probably
going to be mind blowing, like even paradigm changing enough,
whether there is no humanity anymore?

Speaker 14 (01:15:15):
Like that?

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
That weird and that crazy.

Speaker 14 (01:15:19):
That disturbs me very much. But I think you're you
might be right. Yeah, all right, I have a very
stupid potent for you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
Okay, I might not be right too, by the way,
So just remember that, no stupid poems. Your poems are
always fire. Go ahead, sir, okay.

Speaker 14 (01:15:38):
So this poem is called Lick your teeth. Lick your
teeth and tap the metal, grind the enamel, and pull
or put to your nose to the petals, a flower,
a grindstone, a firearm to the mouth. Imagine your tongue

(01:16:02):
venturing south. You taste the words sour and stringy, caught
in your throat like creamy linguini censored with preemptive dentistry.
Take your false teeth and get them in Tennessee.

Speaker 4 (01:16:26):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
I like it as usual.

Speaker 4 (01:16:28):
Man.

Speaker 14 (01:16:29):
Yeah, that's all, you know, my silly poem.

Speaker 2 (01:16:31):
I wouldn't call it stup, but I wouldn't call it
silly at all. I would call it inspired. I would
call it on point, and I would call it fitting
the theme tonight. You were the best. I appreciate it.

Speaker 14 (01:16:40):
Well, thank you very much. You know, like I thought,
it was a silly poem, and I appreciate you. I
appreciate everybody who was called in. And I don't know,
just October is a good month. So yeah, I appreciate
all you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:16:53):
It is a good month. Let's continue to make it so.
And you're welcome back anytime you know where to find us.
Appreciate you. And when you're ready to share your substack,
I still have it saved, so you let me know.

Speaker 14 (01:17:02):
Okay, I'll think about that, Thank you very much.

Speaker 5 (01:17:06):
And two it rules.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
Appreciate the call with you and Philly. You know him,
you love him, good friend for a long time, the
official poet of troubled minds. And you know how he
became that. I like to say this because it's the truth.
I didn't ever consider we'd have an official poet of
troubled minds. But he just called in one day and
started reading poetry and then bam, there you go. That's
the way these things work. That's the way sort of
a spontaneous creation becomes and changes changes, not just me personally,

(01:17:31):
changes us as a group, changes hopefully the world. I
don't know. Speaking of changing the world, shout out to
Daryl in New York. I was in an attorney's office
the other day and I saw up on the wall
they quote by Margaret Meade about the small group of thoughtful,
committed citizens changing the world. I was like, hey, hey,

(01:17:53):
these are white people. These are white people. Of course
I didn't. I didn't mention it. I didn't make a scene.
I should have made a scene anyway. Tonight walking forbidden
knowledge the necronomicon itself, not just, let's say, as a
Lovecraftian aspect, but the archetypal visage and conceptual thought of
forbidden knowledge. Can we know too much?

Speaker 4 (01:18:16):
Or not?

Speaker 2 (01:18:17):
Seven? Or two nine, one zero three seven? Click the
discord link of Troubleminds dot org. Be right back more
on the way. We got Derek the knight Stalker coming
up in your calls as well. Catch you on the
other side of the break. Welcome back to Troubled Minds.

(01:18:56):
Blah blah, YadA YadA. All the places, all the things,
all the ideas, all the weird spaces of the love
Crafty in mind, but also the cosmic horror of knowing
it too much about the nature of reality. Now tonight
we're talking about exactly that, the sort of archetypal limit
of forbidden knowledge and an ecronomicon, of course, is the

(01:19:16):
love Crafty and version of that. But what about the
real version? Is there a space where you can know
too much about where we came from, where we are
and where we're going, And of course I don't know
the answer to this, and recognize that we're different in
the sense that we talk about possibilities. We don't talk
about actual truth in that regard, though everybody else seems

(01:19:39):
to know. I don't. I wonder what we're missing, And
of course forbidden knowledge certainly fits into that paradigm. What
do you know about it? Seven oh two nine one
zero three seven James, anything to add and we'll go
to Derek the Knightstalker. Thanks for being patient, welcome back.

Speaker 7 (01:19:57):
No problem, sorry for coming and go like that, But
it seems like it's been necessary tonight. It's funny I
skimmed through part of that article I shared earlier. The
Dark Hold, this ancient grimoire book in Marvel comics, and
I guess it's made its way into the cinematics as well,

(01:20:18):
but I'm not as familiar with that. I mean, I'm
not familiar with that than I'm with the comics. But
funny thing is it mentions in there that HP Lovecraft
exists in the Marvel universe and the economic on there
was inspired based on The Dark Hold in that universe, and.

Speaker 2 (01:20:37):
That doesn't surprise me one single bit everybody ripping everybody
else off. It's just the way things go these days.
I'll dig into that. I haven't dug into the Dark
Hold itself, and I'm not as big a comic fan
as you, but it rings a bell. But I'll do
some d dive. We'll get back to that at some point,
but I'm glad it fits with this conversation time. You
are the best, as you know. Hang tight, We'll get

(01:20:58):
back to you momentarily.

Speaker 7 (01:20:59):
Let's go to.

Speaker 2 (01:21:01):
Derek in Massachusetts the night you what's brother? How you
doing tonight? Thanks for being patient with us. How are
you feeling? How's everything? Let's talk about the limits of
forbidden knowledge?

Speaker 4 (01:21:15):
What's up? I'm freaking out a little bit? Uh tonight?
I don't.

Speaker 16 (01:21:18):
I don't have too much, but just busy night, biggest
truck in a while, So cramblin. But I got some
idea or a synchronicity slash idea here. But first, uh,
with the with the Dark Hold? Did you see the
second Doctor Strains movie, Mike the Multiverse a manas I did?

Speaker 4 (01:21:33):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:21:33):
Is that the one they were after? They were after
the Dark Cold?

Speaker 4 (01:21:36):
Yeah, like at the end of one division, like the
Spoilerlert for one division.

Speaker 16 (01:21:41):
Basically, the post credit scene of that entire show is
like she realizes she's like in a simulation or whatever,
and she has the simulated kids, and the simulated kids
were taking from her when the simulation ended, and then
she was like traumatized. And then but it's like okay, things,
things are kind of kind of a normal, like I'll
just accept this new reality or whatever. And then she
gets I guess the Dark shows her in front of

(01:22:04):
the Dark Hold post credit scene with their like eyes
all red or whatever, her in her like hair flying stuff,
basically absorbing all the information from the Dark Hold, and
then she was evil and corrupted with like the black
fingertips and everything and like way more powerful in the
second Doctor Stranger movie because she had absorbed or she
had learned these new magics, these new chaos magics from
the from the Dark Hold basically, and like the Dark

(01:22:25):
Hold exists like as basically like something to entice somebody
else to open the door. So Cathon is like the
Cthulhu of the Marvel universe or whatever. So you kind
of like in view something or or have some kind
of like conduits to you that might entice somebody in
this realm and maybe corrupt them a little bit and

(01:22:45):
then get them to open the door to you, or
be a vessel for you, or be liaison and the
material plane when you're immaterial, so you can get back
into the material plane. But yeah, that's the dark hold
and the that's why she was evil.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
Okay, So yeah in that movie. So I'm more familiar
with it than I am, and that's why it kind
of rings that bell there. Yeah, I have seen the
second Strange and I even saw it recently, like it's
been playing on as a common or whatever, Like I
record those when they come up, so I kind of,
you know, play when I'm going to sleep here and there.
But yeah, I mean that that entire concept. Like I said,
it's wild and fascinating at the same time that all

(01:23:19):
of these ideas are basically archetypes, and the archetype of
an economicon in the dark cold here is basically forbidden knowledge.
It is it possible? And if you look at Strange too,
that the original Doctor Strange, that Shangri law place they
want to I can't remember exactly what they called it,
but it's the opposite. So they're toes in the ocean
of tapping into that cosmic power, whatever that is, to

(01:23:41):
become greater than a regular human right with knowledge and
information and meditation and all the things we always talk about.
But then beyond that, it seems like there is this
archetypal understanding that there is a there's a line you
absolutely do not cross, and how weird does that get?
And does technology take us there? I guess becomes a
real question.

Speaker 4 (01:24:01):
Huh, yeah, exactly because incident also just for qual quick, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:08):
Before no, it was just you had like like one
tiny wobble and another tiny wobble like two minutes apart.
You're totally good, hasn't been a problem.

Speaker 16 (01:24:16):
Okay, hopefully fix itself if it happens again. But yeah,
I mean exactly what you're saying. I think like secret
societies basically will that's this is like the whole reason
for why they're secret, Why why they don't just give
this information to anybody or the UFO paradigm is like
it's a dangerous people might hurt themselves, or a collapse

(01:24:37):
society and that kind of stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:24:38):
The secret society is like.

Speaker 16 (01:24:39):
A level up where it's an information that could affect
your life change from bringing you change. But it's like
it's like they like nuclear weapons, we can't let anybody
have them or whatever. But I think that's kind of
like as a conspiracy minded person, I think it's my
way to kind of hoard powers and hoard abilities to
a certain extent.

Speaker 4 (01:24:57):
But then there's the devil advocate.

Speaker 16 (01:25:00):
For them for the secret societies, like you have to
have to be initiated and you have to kind of
earn and go through trials, Like it has to be
knowledge earned.

Speaker 4 (01:25:10):
Is like, unless you've earned.

Speaker 16 (01:25:12):
It, you don't have the ability to use it, right,
And if you get it unearned under knowledge, then you
might be I'm going to have used it. You might like,
let's say that is like some like scroll that could
give you enlightenment at the top of like Mount Everest
or whatever, and you have to climb up there because
the exhaustion of climbing up there will put you in
the right mind state to read the scroll and have

(01:25:33):
it means something to you. But if you don't, if
you just get dropped off by helicopter or whatever, and
you and you read it, and it might be like, oh,
it's a stupid this is dumb, or this is like
it might not might not give you enlightenment. You might
like think you've got enlightenment, but it might be like
maybe it's maybe it's kind of broken, but you have
to you have.

Speaker 4 (01:25:49):
To acquire the knowledge through some trials or whatever.

Speaker 16 (01:25:55):
And there's like I'm not I'm only like a few
episodes into Alien Earth the New like alien people, but
they're like, this isn't a spoiler. Like the main characters
are all children who have their minds put into robot bodies,
so they're acquiring all these all this knowledge and learning
languages instantly, like the like matrix style and stuff. But
to have to learn a language instantly or to learn

(01:26:19):
these lessons instantly, do they really carry the same weight
or affect you the same way? What if you if
you work work for it, and is it like are
you really is that wisdom? Are you really like wise
if you haven't, like I don't know, I kind of
just to hit what you just said.

Speaker 2 (01:26:37):
Yeah, definitely, the Ilucinian mysteries come to mind. I was
reading about that recently because it kind of as the
temperature changes and the weather turns, the autumn equinoxes. When
they did their ritual, which was ascension basically bringing information
back from the other realm very you know, uh norse
uh odin you know, uh, they're being pinned to the

(01:26:58):
tree and then kind of being in and bringing back
the knowledge of the ruins basically the cheat cause of
reality itself. So yeah, all that certainly plays. And if
that look and again conceptual thinking, if that's possible, you
certainly don't want that to be free. Right for like
a three year old instead of his iPad, you just
swap them a necronomicon instead. Seems like a bad idea.

Speaker 16 (01:27:16):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's why they call it
a sacrifice. You know, like Danos can't get the can't
get the Infinity Stones unless the sacrifices the more, you know,
because you have to or in the show, the order
in order to do magic, you have to carry they
carry around like that.

Speaker 4 (01:27:31):
It's like a like a hair powder magic school or whatever.
In order to like do spells, they.

Speaker 16 (01:27:35):
Have they carry the daggers around and like place their
h their hands to create a little bit of pain
and shed.

Speaker 4 (01:27:39):
A little bit of their blood.

Speaker 16 (01:27:40):
Is a little mini sacrifice to like float a pencil
or block a door or something like that. But if
you want to like unlock some love crafty and power
from an older god and poiler alert for the end
of that show, it's eve than one, but.

Speaker 4 (01:27:52):
You have to sacrifice your child or something like that.

Speaker 16 (01:27:54):
You have to like it's there's a hole, there's a
like there's a part, there's like a metaphysical currency, so
to speak. And for the like the Lucian mysteries you're
talking about from the shamanic journey and stuff. I think
that's the difference between people taking ayahuaka and like purging
themselves beforehand and going through these like exercises and getting

(01:28:16):
their their vesthol their temple, tune to this experience so
that they can go get information and it will like
impact them and have value and they can bring it
back and it will it will be of value. But
if you're going to some like tour or some like
hippie grifter person is like ripping off tourist and stuff,

(01:28:38):
then you might have a negative experience that might he
might not have the in same enlightenment whatever quick infinitest
I feel like.

Speaker 2 (01:28:43):
My barely for a quarter of a second in your back,
no problem.

Speaker 16 (01:28:51):
But synchronistically us earlier, like what what would happen if
if like these books got like if like it's Grimoiss
got scanned into into the Internet and stuff, and synchronistically,
Today I watched the Buffy episode all about this from
the from season one, I robot you Jane, And today
I watched this sickly before I went to work, and uh,

(01:29:14):
it's it's it's it's like came out in ninety seven,
so it's like very early Internet, and it's like the
dragon is very funny, and it's like the way they
it's like watching the Sandel pull up movie the Net
and stuff where they're visualizing like going into the computer
and stuff, and it's just longer between ninety seven and now,
and when you watch it, it's like aging very funnily
but in a cool way. And it's all about and

(01:29:35):
it's kind of like the people in the in the
Computer club and stuff are getting super into the.

Speaker 4 (01:29:42):
That that kind of getting a little bit dark, and
that like information is can't be bound into books anymore.

Speaker 16 (01:29:47):
My information's got to be free, like the information super
Highways is the only way to live.

Speaker 4 (01:29:52):
The really real reality is is cyber reality.

Speaker 16 (01:29:55):
You aren't Jack Dane, you aren't living type of thing
like a real nineties after five and stuff, and then
yeah for the show. But at the beginning of the episode,
they're like digitizing Giles, like the Watcher, the mystics, like
the librarian of his books into the into the Internet.
And he's real skeptical about it. He's in like the

(01:30:15):
it's that it's intangible information. That information needs to have
a smell, it needs to it needs to have a
link at tangible link to your memory so that when
you access it has matters.

Speaker 4 (01:30:25):
And he's like this, this this idiot box computer. This
is stupid. I guess it's gonna this is gonna be
the death of all of us.

Speaker 16 (01:30:30):
And then so this and then has he's like saying this,
they're scanning these books in and if there's one Rimoir
with his evil face on it, they're not looking at
the complaining about the Internet. It's scanned it in and
it's Mallock, like Mallock's the corruptor. I don't think it's
the Malloch. Mallock put mallic the corruptor who having the
book scanned let him loose on the Internet. So he

(01:30:52):
was trapped so like by these pre starmistics back in
the olden times when he had a physical demon body.
He was like terrorized and everybody who was getting people
to the worksp him himself and corrupting their minds and
getting them to sacrifice themselves for him. And then these
priests bound him into a book and then scanning the
book it's like the digital equivalent of reading it aloud.

(01:31:12):
And that's the only way to free him. And when
they freed him, rather than give him his body back,
they gave him a digital body. I mean, I mean
like an antinet's his body. He's Ultron, you know. And
the way to defeat them is they like cut off
him like he like fills himself a robot body like
Ultron does and stuff. And they cut him off from
the computer and trapped him.

Speaker 4 (01:31:30):
In his vessel. It's the only way to kind of
hurt him or were like destroy him.

Speaker 16 (01:31:35):
Like if he's only incidet he's everywhere. So they've just
been taking like what's in the library under the Vatican.
Potentially what if these articles haunted objects, these these that's
just things that they're stealing from from everywhere. Is they're
not just haunted because they were touched by something mystical.
They're haunted because they have something mystical in them. They're

(01:31:58):
the imagine a library full of these books, these like
these malt books whatever. Each book is a different bound
demon for a bound in god, and Christianity is the
big one on like I'm the only god.

Speaker 4 (01:32:08):
There's only one.

Speaker 16 (01:32:09):
Forget about all these other gods, like they exist, but
they're stupid. Don't look at them, look at only me.
What if like his templar knights and stuff spent thousands
of years just going and binding because he's a bunch
of like mystical sorcerer priests and stuff. And they're binding
all these gods, these lesser gods, elder gods, old gods,
minor gods, stiff and gosmarrond the world, binding me into books.

Speaker 4 (01:32:29):
And you have this library full of bound gods.

Speaker 16 (01:32:31):
And now Yahweh or Jehovah whatever is the one god
because the rest roll walcked in his basement, Like where's
doctor Drake.

Speaker 4 (01:32:38):
He's walked him out basement. You know you think about that?

Speaker 2 (01:32:43):
Yeah, yeah, Clene clear you are. It amazes me how
you know when your Internet like takes one tiny warble,
you know, and you're talking like I don't I don't
understand how you you're like you're you are a you
may you may be a simulation, Derek, because that's weird.

Speaker 4 (01:32:56):
It's like there's like a small background home. Some of
that kind of goes away.

Speaker 2 (01:33:00):
Oh I see, I see, so it kind of clicks. Okay, yeah, yeah,
you're great. You're great. You're like ninety nine and a
half percent totally good. Okay. Yeah, that's an interesting thing too.
As part of this, like I said, hiding that information
might be and I've talked about this recently in the
past of course as well, when you talk about monotheism
and you talk about sort of how the Sea change

(01:33:20):
in spirituality was by and large political with an what's
his name Constantine, and so it was not necessarily the
Cross on the sky that changed his mind. It was
sort of a political space where he needed allies in
a very contentious and changing world in realm, and so
he recognized that he had some allies in the Christians

(01:33:42):
if he reached out to them, right, the early Christians there,
and so all of that is fascinating to hell in
terms of the councils in I Sea, how they ended
up sort of creating the biblical canon that we know
today and has been what validated has through the Dead
Sea Scrolls as being accurate for basically forever, for as
long as they kind of wrote this stuff, which is crazy,

(01:34:05):
crazy to consider, like it's been like word accurate for
two thousand years or whatever or plus. But anyway, but
my point in bringing up Constantine in this context is
that he was the original sort of gatekeeper of the documents,
the forbidden knowledge of those documents, and then who knows
what kind of stuff got swept into that archive as

(01:34:26):
part of it. So I don't know, I mean, as usual,
like if you digitize that or brought that sort of
the older version of spirituality out, I think you may
be right, whether you think it's metaphorical or not. Everybody
out there listening that maybe they've locked the gods of
old beneath the Vatican itself. I mean, that's a wild
story right there.

Speaker 7 (01:34:45):
I love it.

Speaker 16 (01:34:47):
Yeah, I mean technically I think they did, no matter
kind of wish where you look at it. If there
is treasures and pillaged pillage temples and pillaged like sacred
things from all around the world, so when the Congress
came in, they would like build their temples on top
of the old temples, and they would tear their statues
down and put new statues up and stuff and insert
their god to take in, taking new gods out and stuff.

(01:35:08):
So you do that by like obviously like just literally
tearing down statues and putting them in the basement and
putting up new statues, and eventually that people just forget
about the old statues and stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:35:19):
So this this that, and I think the kind of
the sci.

Speaker 16 (01:35:21):
Fi fantasy horror version of it is that the same
people that were going and stealing statues were going stealing
objects and sacred objects. They were actually like kidnapping gods
so that to the clear the clear the playing field
for their one true god to dominate stuff that they.

Speaker 4 (01:35:36):
Going around the world doing that.

Speaker 16 (01:35:37):
But I think metaphorically we talk about the power of attention,
and these gods need to be spoken about, and once
they're not spoken about anymore, would they lose all their power?
So so like what is just metaphorically like that, but
just taking all the information, all the paintings, all the statues,
all the relics, all just any kind of like iconography
of these gods walking them in the basement, out of side,

(01:36:00):
out of mind, out of reality essentially basically, So maybe.

Speaker 4 (01:36:04):
Like that's what it is.

Speaker 16 (01:36:06):
And then like they call an economic on the book
of Names, book of Names, the book of dead names
or whatever, and maybe that's kind of what it is,
is that it's like a uh like relic or just
like in the in in Doug the Strange too. She's
at the end, which is in the temple, that's Caton's temple,
that's the Cuthulu of Marvels Temple, and she's trying to

(01:36:28):
gain this power so she can alter reality and that's
like her power set or whatever, so she can she
can go and get her like get her kids back
or creat new kids or whatever. She was like trying
to do the reality stone thing without having a stone,
getting this magic, and by doing that, she's like corrupting
the corrupting herself the same way the hackers were being
corupted by Molok the corupter and Buffy or whatever. Corrupting
herself and then her gaining this new power will destroy

(01:36:50):
her and stuff, but also let this thing free. So
her speaking these ancient text her like essentially opening this
book of names, lets these unspoken names free potentially, So
that could be literal, which I think is fun and cool,
or metaphorical which is just the knowledge of them locks
them away and the same way like so now they
have to use other other routes about it, and like

(01:37:12):
find love Craft in his dreams and like find the
cracks in his psyche and get in there, get way
and engineers later years later whatever. The tentacles on all
of our Halloween Halloween apps on on on a streaming stuff,
you know, tentacles and pumpkins and captuft the reforming buy
our attention to it and stuff. So maybe you know, yeah,

(01:37:34):
at more tiny thing like.

Speaker 2 (01:37:36):
Yeah, I meet you, let me interject here. So okay,
So interestingly, if you go down to the Vatican Archive
and think of it in terms of information, okay, information
theory and just literally you know, bits and bites, ones
and zeros of all that, like incredible lost hidden data.
All right, there's also an idea that comes to mind
as part of it. And we've talked about this in
the past. The coronavisor. Okay, now think of this now,

(01:37:57):
this is a super super short. The Coronavisor is a
legendary device alleged to be a sort of time viewer,
created in the nineteen sixties by Italian Benedicting monk and scientists.
Father Pellegrino er Netti said to enable users to observe
and record past events in history as if watching them
on television. I'll check this out. He claimed that the
coronavirser functioned by detecting and decoding residual electromagnetic radiation left

(01:38:22):
behind by past events, allowing users to tune in and
witness moments such as the speeches of Cicero, the Last Supper,
and even the crucifixion of Christ. Now the reason I
bring that up now, do I believe that's true? Probably not.
But what if you took let's say the power of
massive AI now and actually scanned the entirety of that

(01:38:43):
Vatican archive? Like I wonder because it is a you know,
we're pattern recognition experts as people, but at scale that's AI,
And so I wonder if that would become something that
could not predict forward predicting the next token, but predict
seeing the previous token in allowing us a window like
that in the past.

Speaker 4 (01:39:04):
Oh well, yeah, interesting, I think, I think.

Speaker 12 (01:39:08):
So.

Speaker 16 (01:39:08):
I think like the way I think about the at
least the future aspect of the cornavisor is that it
uses probabilities. So like what it's seeing is not it's
set in stone. The future is not set in stone
that it's seeing or is different than the saint watching
the crucifixion or something like that, but future things that
it's seeing, the thing that's most likely. It's crunching probabilities
and seeing different probabilities and seeing the most likely probable

(01:39:29):
future and then using that information to to like adjust
the present to make the future that they want more
probable so that.

Speaker 4 (01:39:38):
It happens to like stack the deck in their favor
to get the outcome and the reality that they want.

Speaker 16 (01:39:43):
And to me, since we've been talking about the AI
for a few years now, that's me seemed like an
AI predicting the future basically on crunching, crunching all the
information and all the probabilities to find the most probably
probable outcome and then and then like building the scales
scales like.

Speaker 4 (01:39:56):
Stack and the deck and then I mean get to
get me think and like.

Speaker 16 (01:40:02):
Similar to what you said, but like what if it
is a giant supercomputer to speak, like, it needs all
this space but most most everything scanned, and if there
are a few years ahead, then what if the basement's
empty and it's just one desk with one computer and
one floppy disk whatever and everything that was every every
scroll they ever had was all scanned. And the now
it's just an empty space because they don't need the

(01:40:22):
rolls anymore.

Speaker 7 (01:40:23):
Whatever.

Speaker 16 (01:40:23):
It is one sacred floppy disk and stuff. But what
if it does like need a lot of like computing space.
The dun Dune Dune Prophecy, there's the prequel show is
about the Benejeesert.

Speaker 4 (01:40:36):
They're like priesthood.

Speaker 16 (01:40:37):
They're like female priesthood that's in the government essentially, like
the equivalent of their dirt, and they're like head and mother.

Speaker 4 (01:40:44):
Is essentially the pope and stuff.

Speaker 16 (01:40:46):
And under their basement, their secret Vatican basement, is a
supercomputer literally and it's the thinking machines that were banned
in the current and the regular doing. Everybody knows about
this is this is ten thousand years in the past
and it's kind of like immediately after they banned them.
Now they're hiding these thinking machines like so because their
whole thing is to their appointages that they will trying

(01:41:06):
to crunch probabilities to so that they're taking spice, they're
taking substances. See, the most probable outcome and then adjust
the present to get to change probabilities to get the
outcome that they want to put the person they.

Speaker 4 (01:41:17):
Want in power or whatever.

Speaker 16 (01:41:18):
They have a whole supercomputer, the thinking machine, doing that
in secret under their Vatican, and specifically they're using like
genetics they have like people's like DNA and they're they're
like that's where they're kind of the information. And then
they have the AI kind of crunching it to find
the find the right people and find the people who
can be to that can see and.

Speaker 14 (01:41:40):
At that.

Speaker 16 (01:41:40):
But just like what if it what if it is
that's a giant supercomputer before we even had a term
for that, and and thirty years ago they came out
some kind of coronavisor time machine thing because they don't
know what a supercomputer union is, you.

Speaker 4 (01:41:52):
Know, and now we now we kind of do more
than anything.

Speaker 16 (01:41:55):
I think is probably like they're on a location and
that the treasure that they're on is like the location
of it, like they're in the world Naval or like
the main chaka point of the Earth or something like.

Speaker 2 (01:42:04):
That, the foes of ancient Greeks or something like that.

Speaker 4 (01:42:08):
Yeah, or like on on the.

Speaker 16 (01:42:10):
Mouth of some giant cave that reaches the center of
the earth or something like that kind of the reason
why they they are on that location.

Speaker 2 (01:42:16):
But yeah, good, sorry, yeah, no, oh good. I think
it's an interesting aspect. And I would even say, like
the many of the ideas that kind of come into
the zeitgeist are not always let's let's describe them as
real events, they might be dream events. And so it
wouldn't surprise me if the idea of the coronavisor came

(01:42:37):
about as a dream. It was sort of leaked as
some you know, some some people talking about it, and
then some people heard a conversation and thought it was real,
and then that information got out, and you know what
I'm saying, And so maybe this type of stuff is
possible in some capacity, maybe not now, but maybe one
hundred years or a thousand years from now. And it
was a sort of one of those those dreams of
the future when this stuff was possible, I don't know,

(01:42:59):
just kind of thrown it out there as another maybe
maybe Jews, No, I.

Speaker 16 (01:43:04):
Mean, yeah, for sure, for sure. I mean it's probably
probably more likely. It's kind of fun to think about
if it's happened before they understood it supercomputer is to
go down there and see, like I'm thinking, like that
man's giant back computer in the in the in the
that cave, and it's this giant screen or multiple screens
and stuff. Before you know what a what a greta
monitor is to say, it's oh, it's a black mirror
that they can scry on and see. It's this tablet,

(01:43:26):
this looking glass that they can see the future and stuff.
But they see the into the past and stuff. But
really they're watching video over there. They're I don't know,
kind of ancient I don't know what if it's an
ancient quantum computer that they had a long time ago,
or some kind of library of books of haunted objects
that have old gods on them in there and some
kind of target, like some kind of library tartarists waiting

(01:43:48):
to be read in freedom.

Speaker 14 (01:43:51):
Topics.

Speaker 2 (01:43:51):
You know you're good and it's sealed off by like
some sort of ward as you go down into the
really appreciate the calls. Always a pleasure. You were the best,
you knowing you love him. That's Derek the night Stalker.
Go give him a following Troubleminds dot orun for slized friends.
Scroll down a little bit. It is night stalker st
O c K e R. He does take time out
from working overnight in a grocery store to call us

(01:44:12):
Troubleminds dot orun four slized friends, please give him a
follow on YouTube. I see you on the phone line.
I'm not sure who that is. Stay there, You're up next,
so please be patient. As soon as we come back
from the break, you are up, so thank you. Stay there,
We'll be right back. More trouble Minds coming up. Don't
go anywhere more from James. We got a maybe a
first time caller or maybe not on the phone. Here
we go here, I'm back. More trouble Minds on the way.
Don't go anywhere. Welcome back. It's a Trouble Minds. I'm

(01:44:55):
your host, Michael Strange. We're streaming on YouTube, rumbo x,
Twitch and kick. We are podcasting live on the Trouble
Minds Radio Network at KAP Digital Broadcasting and of course
AY eight point four FM, Auckland, New Zealand. Tonight, we're
talking to this idea, the necronomicon conceptually metaphorically and the
limits of forbidden knowledge. Do you think there's actually a
point where humans can learn too much like a cosmic limit,

(01:45:19):
sort of like the cosmic limit of the speed of light.
It's an interesting thing that when you look at the
or conceptually think about the substrate of reality itself, why
is there a universal speed limit the speed of light? Okay, obviously, However,
if you look at simulation theory in that particular space,
it also makes a little bit of sense that that

(01:45:42):
universal speed limit is that limit of human knowledge, like
there is a limit to everything in the end metaphorically,
because of course, these are questions way beyond my pay grade.
As I say, I'm just merely a human talking about
wild ideas by dark of Knight. But the point is,
what do you know about it? I'm calling this once

(01:46:03):
again the networked necronomicon limits of forbidden knowledge. Anything real quick,
James to Adam, We'll go to the caller on the line.
Thanks for being patient, a friend, whoever you are.

Speaker 7 (01:46:13):
Just great call from Derek, great cost from everyone. I
don't think I said that earlier, at least that in
the show. So yeah, And I also wonder real quick
regarding the coronavisor if even if it wasn't actually me,
what if there's just plans for it there and that
does get out online. That could be fascinating and possibly

(01:46:35):
horrifying thing as well.

Speaker 2 (01:46:37):
That'd be funny. Or they had plans for it but
never actually the technology to create it and now we
do or something I don't know, Yeah, wild stuff. Who knows?
Who really does? Like I said, to be honest, I
think it's fake. But with all the information down below,
who really knows? I love to hear you guys thoughts
on this seven two nine five one zero three seven
Click the discord link of Troubleminds dot Org to the
phone line. Thanks for being patient, my friends. You're on

(01:46:58):
trouble Minds. What's your first name? Where do you call them?
And go right ahead?

Speaker 5 (01:47:02):
Now here east of the Rockies, the.

Speaker 2 (01:47:05):
East of the Rockies. What's your first name?

Speaker 14 (01:47:06):
Again?

Speaker 2 (01:47:07):
Say again? Malc here, mal here, Welcome to the joint.
I'm Mike.

Speaker 4 (01:47:12):
It's the trudonym.

Speaker 2 (01:47:13):
Okay, perfect that you're allowed. That's exactly the point. So
is Michael Strange by the way, but you're certainly welcome.
What's on your mind tonight? Thanks for calling and go
right ahead.

Speaker 5 (01:47:23):
Oh I was gonna know. I was thinking about doing
a rapid fire answer session. You have a lot of questions,
and I figured out to answer your questions in sixty
seconds or less.

Speaker 2 (01:47:34):
Okay, let's hear it.

Speaker 5 (01:47:37):
All right, What would you like to start with forbidden knowledge?

Speaker 2 (01:47:40):
Sure, let's start with that's the main core concept tonight.
Let's start with forbid knowledge. Is there a limit?

Speaker 5 (01:47:48):
Uh, there is a limit, but that would only be
God himself. Now, according to a cult text or a
culture tradition, God is the only unknown as far as
it being a subjective topic like mechanic human being learned
too much. It is subjective. It depends on the individual,

(01:48:10):
but they learn an answer to say why we're here
or the nature of reality. It's it's forbidden inso much
as that person's acceptance of it. Say I were, as
an example, I were to tell you something that was
a universal truth that has been known for thousands of years.

(01:48:31):
If you refuse to accept it, then that would be
forbidden knowledge as far as you're concerned.

Speaker 2 (01:48:38):
Okay, I follow, Okay, I.

Speaker 5 (01:48:42):
Like it, And like I said, sixty seconds or less,
you know, I want to keep it short. I don't
want to just ramble.

Speaker 2 (01:48:48):
Yeah, okay, Well, rambling is my game because I'm just
trying to get ideas out of you guys. So, so
don't worry about that. Okay. So there is a limit,
but there's a subjective space that kind of fits into that.
What about the idea of something like the coronavisor or ai.
Do you think there you could actually space this and
not predict the next token, but predict the previous token

(01:49:08):
with enough data, with something like the information below the Vatican?
Does that seem ridiculous to suggest.

Speaker 5 (01:49:15):
What is a token? I'm not familiar with the the organ.

Speaker 2 (01:49:18):
So the way modern AI systems work large language models basically,
they take a ton of data and when you ask
them a query, they predict the next token of what
that means, and then give you give you information back.
So it's not necessarily you know, sentient or conscious or
any of that just yet that's arguable going into the future.

(01:49:39):
But what happens is it's predicting where your mind space
is based on your question. Oh yeah, knows about you,
that's all. That's what the next token is. Yeah, good,
I get it.

Speaker 5 (01:49:50):
Okay, So what was your question? I'm sorry, I just
needed context for that's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:49:55):
So is it possible to not not just predict the
next token into the future, but to get enough like
esoteric data from let's say the Vatican Archive and predicted
previous token and basically view the past. That's the question.

Speaker 4 (01:50:10):
View the past.

Speaker 5 (01:50:13):
You could get a reasonable summation of what occurred based
on the conjecture of the information. But as far as
it like creating a window to the past, an actual
window to the past, absolutely not anything that showed you
would be a reasonable approximation of what occurred based on

(01:50:34):
all data available. If you were to go into something
like the Vatican Archives, which is not going to happen.
I'm sure they have their own artificial intelligence. It's hard,
hard at work analyzing all the information and archiving it.
But if you were to have access to the Vatican Archive,
I think you would find it fairly underwhelming. You know,

(01:50:56):
the answer is usually somewhere in the middle, with good
phillips of questions like what's in the Vatican Archive. I
don't think you'd be interested in what is in the
Vatican Archive or most of what's in the Vatican Archive
that relates to your first question about forbid knowledge. Usually
it would pertain to a cult text that go back
thousands of years, things like Kabbala, the Gnostics, what have

(01:51:19):
you ancient Christian texts or Arabic texts concerning the occult traditions.
But yeah, those are kept in the Vatican Archive, but
they're never going to see the light of day. Most
of what you would get from the Vatican Archive, or
like financial records, for instance, or personal testimony, theological thought

(01:51:40):
on Christian theology and stuff like that, that most people
wouldn't be very interested in financial records transactions, what have
you thousands of years of real estate transactions, contracts and
what have you? Money being moved around. But yeah, you
get something every now and then that's interesting, but not
for the most part. Everyone likes to pretend it's like

(01:52:02):
some acastic record of secret information.

Speaker 4 (01:52:05):
It's not.

Speaker 5 (01:52:06):
Most of shit's born.

Speaker 2 (01:52:08):
And I agree with you too, And that's if you
go back to the beginning on the Assyrian tablets, it's
similar to there's a lot of financial records, there's like
trade proposals, there's like there's so much like just nonsensical,
not nonsensical but made sense of the day. But reading
it now is like punching yourself in the face. So
I agree with you, I one hundred percent agree with you,
But I think we also agree on the other extreme

(01:52:31):
that there's going to be some nuggets in there that
are wild and might be paradigm changing, at least conceptually.
So I'll leave it at that, not going to try
and press and argue with you. But I think maybe
we have a common space there.

Speaker 4 (01:52:43):
I would guess, Oh, yeah, I.

Speaker 5 (01:52:46):
Think we have a commonality. I think there's what you
would call nuggets us. There's stuff all over the place
out here that's readily accessible. It's not forbidden in the
sense that it's deliberately conceived, it's just not publicly advertised.
You're your previous calor. I was listening to a lot
of what he said, and it sounds like he's on

(01:53:08):
the right path. But I would advise him to be
careful with movies, or to stay away from movies entirely,
because they're somewhat of a perversion or an inversion of
occult truce or occult themes. They use it for entertainment
and they play fast and loose with the truth. But
you can find virtually anything you want to know about

(01:53:29):
out there, like the necronomicad. You know, you're like you
were talking, you were asking earlier, is there a real necronomicon?
What would you call a real necronomicon, you know, would
you call it a consolidated work of all necromantic knowledge?
Is that what you would refer to it as, or
more like in the the evil dead sense. You know,

(01:53:51):
there's demonic names in it and ways of opening portals
to other worlds and stuff. You know what, what would
you what you call a necronomic.

Speaker 2 (01:54:01):
Cop I think so just to take it back to
the Lovecraft sense, because he's the one who created the term,
is just knowledge so deep and dark or whatever mystic
or as you're describing as well, that it sort of
twists the human mind enough to recognizing the secrets of
the cosmos, so something as you described, Yes, maybe take

(01:54:24):
the entirety of the nuggets in the space of the
you know, the Vatican archive, consolidate them into a singular book.
But then also, let's say, using AI or something, put
the pieces together to maybe answer cosmic questions that weren't
meant to be answered, sort of back to that love
crafty and business. And again it's a conceptual thought. So
I don't think there's a real necronomicon personally, But the

(01:54:46):
question really becomes if it existed, would it really drive
you mad to read through that tone. I mean, I
would think so.

Speaker 5 (01:54:54):
No, it wouldn't drive you mad unless you're ready to
accept the answers. It's knowledge. A lot of these the
mystic traditions, esoteric traditions, the occult traditions, blah blah, blah blah,
they all cover the same traditional themes. There is a
universal set of truths, but those truths only apply to

(01:55:15):
those people that are able and willing to accept them. Now, initiations, say,
for instance, your previous caller, if he was really interested
in being initiated into these forbidden truths that are out there,
it's a very slow walk. You have to crawl before
you can run, as the saying goes, So, you're not

(01:55:38):
going to come across a piece of information, say occult volumes,
that is going to be so spectacular that if you
were to learn about it, it would blow your mind
because you wouldn't be able to understand it. You wouldn't
be able to abstract it in the first place. By
the time you were able to, your mind would have

(01:55:58):
had been prepared to accept that information, conditioned to accept
that information and incorporate it into yourself. Now, that's that's
not going to harm you. But like I said, by
the spoken word, if I were to tell someone to
say a forbidden truth, they're they're just not going to

(01:56:19):
be able to. First of all, they're not going to
know what the fuck I'm talking about. And second of all,
even if they did, they're not going to be able
to fully wrap their mind around it because of the hate.
They haven't been inculcated. They don't know how to process
the information. If that makes sense to you, it.

Speaker 2 (01:56:36):
Makes perfect sense to me.

Speaker 14 (01:56:37):
Real quick.

Speaker 2 (01:56:38):
Please, we're actually on the radio, so no, no, uh
no f bombs. I appreciate that.

Speaker 4 (01:56:42):
So okay, so oh no profanity, yes, thank you, thank
you like.

Speaker 2 (01:56:45):
Acid crap plays. But that's about as far as we go.
So thank you for that. Thanks for understanding. I'm not approved,
just rules. Okay, So what else do you have to
offer us? Meaning that I got some questions for you.
I love I love the way your mind works. I
love the kind of delving into that. Clearly you know
a lot about these ideas, which is great to me.
This is why we do this in the format we
do why I ramble a lot to kind of bring

(01:57:07):
out ideas from other people for a conversation. What do
you think we should know? Well, if you want to
give us a little bit of background, that's okay. We
got some time. If you'd like to share whatever you got,
I'd love to hear it. Know on what subject, on
this subject or anything.

Speaker 5 (01:57:24):
I mean, just like about life in general.

Speaker 2 (01:57:27):
No, I mean we're talking about the occult tonight, if
you so? Okay, So actually let's let's get context on that.
So how did you find this? Is this the first
time finding the show?

Speaker 4 (01:57:36):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (01:57:37):
I was just roaming around. You came up on my feed.
But I watch, you know, a lot of occult stuff.
I kind of shop around and see what other people
are into and the pads that they're on and their progression.
And I can always learn a few new things myself.
You know, I'm not some grand master of the mysteries,
but you know there's I like to shop around, and

(01:57:57):
your your show just happened to pop up on my feet.
So I dipped in there and decided to take a
look at what you're doing. And I liked it, so
I stuck around.

Speaker 2 (01:58:06):
I appreciate that.

Speaker 5 (01:58:08):
And my advice to your callers, he said, I if
I were to give some advice, guys, you gotta you
gotta read a book, man, stay away from the Marvel
movies plays. They'll they'll what parents used to say, they'll
they'll rock your mind.

Speaker 2 (01:58:24):
Okay, hold on the hold on though in defense of
that personally, because I do it too, is that it's
very Joseph Campbell, It's very Carl Jung. It's the same
archetypes we've been dealing with forever in the sense of
a folklore mythology. So I think it just sort of
a new way to kind of stoke an audience with
a modern idea that people would resonate with more. You

(01:58:45):
see what I'm saying. So you're right that they bastardize
these ideas, they rip them off, they you know, invert them.
All that stuff is true to me, for whatever truth
is worth. But you see what I'm saying. I think
I think those metaphors and those realities certainly play in metaphors,
parables and what's the other one. It'll come to me
in a second. But you get the idea, you get
the idea. I'm not again, I'm not trying to be

(01:59:06):
combative of but certainly like these ideas, they are archetypal
ideas that go way back and it's just framing them
in a modern context as all so so so I
back them up in that that regard. So just that's
where that's where I stand. I find myself more of
like a folk loreist these days than pretty much anything else.
But uh yeah, great stuff. Look, I'm glad the algorithm

(01:59:28):
found each other. We found each other in a moment.
And and like I said, we talk about all kinds
of stuff. That's just just sort of a Halloween sort
of theme and idea. We've been at this for seven
seven and a half years, and lots of things we
talk about. We talk about AI and all manner of things.
So so so you you if you caught us on
a cool night, cool, maybe the next one will be
more or less cool, who knows. But I appreciate that

(01:59:49):
the knowledge. I appreciate your wisdom and your your willingness
to look at the ideas in a slightly different way.
Great stuff. What else you got for us? If if
you want to have anything else to the conversation.

Speaker 5 (01:59:59):
Well I subscribed. They'll pray end up calling out another night.
But if you wanted to, like I said, if you
want to ask questions, go right ahead. The marvel thing
I will cap that off by saying, I think it
does more harm than good. You're right about it, being
Joseph Campbell, you know, the hero with a thousand faces.
I get it. There's a lot better material out there

(02:00:20):
than what they make nowadays, the slot they make nowadays.
But you are right in that sense. It is a
form of storytelling that's been around for thousands of years.
I just don't like the way that they use it.

Speaker 12 (02:00:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:00:35):
Fair Yeah, fair enough, fair enough. And so just as
another aspect of what we do here, criticize the ideas
and not the callers, and you haven't done that. I'm
not complaining here, and I love all that, okay. So
I think another question as part of it. You're interested
in these mysteries, the mysteries of old, and I'm sure
you're familiar with the Illucinian mysteries as we described, or
even the Norse mythology. Yes, of Odin be intact of

(02:00:58):
the tree and kind of killed to go into the
other realm, because even in that mythology he didn't know
what was beyond the veil. Do you have any context
about what might be beyond the veil? Or is that
just sort of a human futility in terms of metaphorically
the unknown. What's your take on the veil and the
veil thinning because we're in that stane.

Speaker 5 (02:01:19):
No, it's all right, it's all of the traditions have
basically the same things. Now they have more colorful ways
of expressing the same traditional themes of the mysteries, but
they are universal now as far as what goes what
happens beyond the veil, basically there's two things that occur.

(02:01:44):
Either you're reincarnated and that does not vary across cultures,
that's for all human beings on the face of the earth.
Or you are ready to move past this exists it's
this material play, and the only way that that's possible
is if you essentially forfeit everything it is to be
human as far as what you enjoy anyway your attachments

(02:02:07):
is the best way of putting it. You don't forfeit
things like love or compassion or ethics, for instance, but
you would forfeit say, an addiction to food, an addiction
to sex, and attachment to any type of worldly pleasures
that would bind you here if you've genuinely given them up,

(02:02:28):
and then there is no purpose for your reincarnation. There
is no purpose to come back to Earth past the
life that you've lived. If you have truly forsaken any
attachments to material pleasures that bind you here, then you're
ready to move forward to a higher plane of existence.

(02:02:48):
That's what they would call ascendance. Ascendances when you move
past our dimension here and to another dimension that is
it's not meant for the human mind comprehend. You can
get a glimpse of it. It's what the gnostics would
refer to as experior w renal and knowledge to where

(02:03:09):
you actually glimpse what is beyond the veil, and that
is supposed to be used as fuel along your spiritual
journey in order to shed your attachment to this life
and this body, so that when you do die, you
are ready to move forward. And of course they have
their own mystery schools, and they are ways of navigating

(02:03:31):
the trials of the afterlife. That's another thing that you're
going to encounter that goes all the way back to
the Egyptian mystics thousands of years ago. That you will
encounter a series of trials and if you fail them,
then you'll basically be doomed to reincarnate. Until you are
spiritually prepared to move past this world and the trials

(02:03:51):
beyond it.

Speaker 2 (02:03:52):
Awesome. I love that you're in the right place. We're again,
we're on the about twenty four minute segments. I got
about four and a half minutes left. We're gonna take
a break. But I got a question for your regarding that.
Do you think there is, regarding the actual reincarnation cycles,
some level of bleedover? For instance, doctor Ian Stevenson did
a ton of work about you know, children that remembered
sort of a past life, you know, as a World

(02:04:13):
War two pilot, or had scars where you know, they
had moles, whatever, bullet loans, this type of stuff. Do
you think there is some sort of bleed over from
the metaphysical beyond the veil to a reincarnation aspect here?
Do you think that's maybe to be determined because we
don't have enough data? And have you heard of doctor
Ian Stevenson?

Speaker 5 (02:04:31):
Yes I have, and yes there is bleedover, albeit rare,
but yes, you can remember portions of your path pass lives.
You're never going to remember them in their entirety, or
how many of them that you've had, or how well
educated you were any of the fine details of it
until the day that you die. Now, when you die,

(02:04:53):
if you are ready to move beyond the point of
this existence, this plane, you'll take all that knowledge with you.
But a veil is purposefully placed over your consciousness when
you return here for a reason that kind of circles
back to forbidden knowledge. You could say that that would
be forbid knowledge. Yes, that if that veil wasn't placed

(02:05:18):
on your consciousness when you reincarnated, it would drive Yes,
that would drive you insane. Yes, is that if you've
lived dozens of lives throughout thousands of years, and you
can remember everything, including your deaths, including pain, torture, any
type of horrific thing that you've gone through, it would

(02:05:38):
make it virtually impossible for you to experience this incarnation. So, yes,
a veil forgetfulness is necessary in order for you to
function in this incarnation. Yes, So, knowing your past lives,
you could say that's forbidden knowledge, and you most definitely

(02:06:01):
that's not something you would want to play with. You
could find out things in your past life that could
completely corrupt this one. It can completely corrupt your worldview,
It could corrupt the path that you are currently on.
So that could be considered forbidden knowledge your past lot.

Speaker 2 (02:06:24):
Very well said, and I agree, and that's why what
you were invoking there in the Veil, that veil conversation,
it made me think of him, because he's done a
ton of work regarding that, and it seems as if
some of that data is compelling enough to suggest, as
you described it as rare, but it feels as if
some of that does bleed into this realm. And so
the question, so, just so you know what a weirdo

(02:06:45):
I am, and how sort of scaled we try and
take these ideas as much as possible, I would say, okay,
So if there's some data there to suggest back to
Igdrasill and Odin and the gods, even bringing information back
from the veil, which of course were the ruins that
allowed him to manipulate manipulate reality in this sense at scale,

(02:07:05):
if you could get some information back, what does that
look like at scale? And you don't have to answer
that it's above my pay grade. It's just sort of
the way my brain thinks when I look at these ideas,
because I want to press them as far as possible
through those mystery schools, through through the ancient ways and
the modern ways and talk about it with incredible people.
And you are you are, you are a fantastic and

(02:07:27):
I consider you a friend, and you're welcome back anytime
we got a minute or two left, if you got
anything to add.

Speaker 5 (02:07:35):
Okay, these ancient ways wouldn't even compare to the modern ways.
We have a great deal more information at our fingertips,
a great deal of education. Also, we standing on the
shoulders of giants. Like now we can look back at
yodd or soul. We can look back at the mythology
of the Norwegian people to Scandinavian people, and we can

(02:07:57):
have a bird's eye view of their spiritual perspective in
their mystical traditions. In their day, that was the only
perspective that they had. Now we have a bird's eye
view to where we can factored in with all the
other faiths and mystics and traditions from around the world

(02:08:17):
and kind of paint with a broader brush, a bigger
picture of what is actually going on in the metaphysical
and spiritual sense. The ancient peoples were unable to do that,
with very very few exceptions. People that traveled abroad and
studied in the mystic schools, or spent their lives or

(02:08:38):
portions of their lives and libraries. They may have had
more insight, far more insight than say you're average person.
But as far as today the way that we can
look at the metaphysical realm or the spiritual condition of
the human race, you've never had more information available in

(02:08:58):
the history of the entire world than what we have
in a singular day. I would recommend that people use
that to the greatest degree possible as soon as they
possibly can. That's all I have to say.

Speaker 2 (02:09:16):
Welcome to Troubled Minds. Holy crap, mel here malch here. Yeah,
I appreciate the call. You're welcome back anytime we go Sundays, Tuesdays, Thursdays.
Thank you for insight, thanks for listening, Thanks for the call.
Look forward to talking to you in the future. I
have a great night.

Speaker 5 (02:09:32):
You as well.

Speaker 2 (02:09:33):
Thank you very much. There you go, make a new
friends all over the world seven two nine one or
your three seven click to discord link of Troubleminds dot org.
More on the way we got maps ou coming up
in your calls as well. Don't go anywhere. Welcome back

(02:10:01):
to Troubled Minds. I'm your host, Michael Strange. We're streaming
on YouTube and all the places. Yeahd yadah blah blah blah.
Join the rumble chat because it's less censorious as we've
been talking about the past and all the places. You
can listen to us on again KUAP Digital Broadcasting. It's
digital radio. You can find it at Troubledminds dot org.
Of course, we're also on eighty eight point four FM Auckland,

(02:10:23):
New Zealand. Shout out to our friends in New Zealand.
Tonight we're talking more conceptual thought, more ideas at scale
as we consider the limits of forbidden knowledge, what does
it mean? And shout out Malcor over there at mil Core.
The last call suggested that maybe the forbidden knowledge, as
part of this larger context is information from past lives

(02:10:46):
in these reincarnation cycles. And I love that. Like I said,
I'm a fan of doctor Ian Stevenson the work he did,
and it is perplexing in the sense that we see
some of the things that really kind of ring our
bell and in terms of the paradigm changing stuff that
I'm describing, but imagine being able to tune into that signal,
the signal to noise ratio and find information from beyond

(02:11:10):
the veil. And I mean, I don't know what that means.
I don't know what that looks like. I think it
is the secrets of the universe and the rest of
this stuff, or the secrets of consciousness or reincarnation, these cycles.
I don't know. And recognize too that when we talk
about cycles, the hero with a Thousand faces, and Joseph
Campbell plays heavily into this, who leaned heavily on Carl

(02:11:30):
Jung and the archetypes. It's fascinating and I think more
often than not, the human aspect of all of these
ideas are incredible. And yes, we have more data than ever.
We're inundated with more propaganda than ever, and so as
I always say, I'm not a preacher, but if you
would say I preach anything, it's discernment, it's learning, it's growing,

(02:11:52):
it's recognizing when you've been fooled to manipulated and then
moving on without being fool to manipulated. That's what this
has always been about. You guys are incredible. Thanks for
staying up late with us. Appreciate the calls and all
the energy and frequencies and vibrations, James, anything to add
to what our new call or new friend there said,
shout out in the East of the Rockies and welcome back,

(02:12:13):
thanks for being patient and what you got and we'll
go to matt Sel and Molly after that.

Speaker 7 (02:12:18):
Yeah, great call. I do think I feel like that
that Malkay I may have helped saying the name right,
may have hit on something that is really important to
why let's say that there's not let's say, entities flying
around everywhere whenever anyone reads any kind of material that

(02:12:41):
talks about them. I think it maybe because partly, at
least in part because of course we have no idea
how this works, but in part because people aren't ready
and either to accept or in just in giving attention
or their energy to these kinds of ideas in those cases,
and so they don't have those experiences. They don't they

(02:13:02):
don't unleash whatever may be attached to the material. And
so even if there was anything that they get put
out online by any really, any any group, any anyone
anywhere from ancient archives, it I would guess it probably
wouldn't just automatically cause the world to be full of

(02:13:26):
angels or demons or monsters or whatever whatever names you
want to or readings you want to talk about. I'd
imagine that's why that doesn't happen, that hasn't happened to
the point where we're overrun by them, because I don't
I don't think it works exactly that way. Same with
all things paranormal in that way.

Speaker 2 (02:13:45):
Yeah, well said, Well said as usual right there, the
idea of all this information we have now sort of
fractalizing in the modern space, and so much of it
being trash, meaning not necessarily the old ways. Some of them,
of course are going to be throwaways because there was
propaganda in the old days as well, there had to
be for control purposes. But I mean, we're inundated with
modern propaganda and we can see the mind at scale

(02:14:07):
and what it means to be manipulated, and like I said,
we're in a precarious time. But I think also if
you recognize what's happening to us or these control mechanisms
as I'm always talking about, we have an unprecedented amount
of information we can lean on and become transcendent at
least personally, and not have to deal with the crap

(02:14:28):
they're always trying to you know, shove down our throats,
which is yeah, well, welcome to twenty twenty.

Speaker 7 (02:14:33):
Five, right, Yeah, definitely you can. You can pick and
choose what you can look. You want to look into
what you can you think you can handle, you know,
I do believe it's important. It's important everyone looks into
the things that they feel that they are drawn to
and to work with those things to try to make
things better for everyone in their own way. I think

(02:14:55):
that's important as well.

Speaker 2 (02:14:57):
Well said, well said, you were the best. James Selsey, Oh,
the paranormal expert of Trouble Minds Celicia to paranormal dot com,
go give him a follow and all the places. I'll
also tell you when we finish up here. Uh, you
want to be part of the conversation, I'd love to
hear your thoughts. Seven oh two nine five seven when's
zero three seven Click to discord link at Troubleminds dot org.
Once again, just to reiterate the reason we do this
in long form and the reason I ramble a lot

(02:15:17):
is I'm trying to get you guys with some ideas
and talk about these things together in a human space,
not an AI space. We can talk about AI, but
the human space is what it's all about. Let's go
to Matts, Alan, California. What's the brother you're on trouble minds?
How are you?

Speaker 4 (02:15:30):
Sir?

Speaker 2 (02:15:30):
Go right ahead.

Speaker 13 (02:15:31):
Hey, my good show and good callers and a good
new caller.

Speaker 2 (02:15:35):
Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 7 (02:15:36):
He was good.

Speaker 2 (02:15:37):
He was good, very good stuff.

Speaker 13 (02:15:39):
Yeah, I called him. I was going to talk about how,
you know, knowledge is power. I believe that, but I
also believe that the knowledge is only fifty of the
whole the whole picture. You had to have real old
actions after you learn what you have read. And so
a lot of people that could read, you know, you
could read a bunch of books. That doesn't mean I mean,

(02:16:00):
just because you know these things doesn't mean that you
have to practice them or you know, you don't have
to do the spells. You could just have that knowledge.
And there's people that will read books and then skip
over certain things. But then there's people out there that
do magic every day, and they never read a spell book.
They've never you know, they've never learned about energy manipulation

(02:16:24):
or anything. They just do it. So it's like a
fifty to fifty. You have to learn and then practice
what you've learned. And there's a lot of books I
read where I'll get to a chapter that maybe doesn't
interest me or I'm not into it at the time.
I'll still read the material, but i'll skip over the
practicing of it and then come back to it later.

(02:16:45):
And I found out too a lot as I got older,
I started learning about shadow work and doing shadow work,
healing past traumas and things like that, and learning more
about myself. As I did that, I.

Speaker 17 (02:16:58):
Started to go back and finished the exercises. Are some
of the books I've read before that I skip over
the exercises. So I think it's important that we talked
about it as like there's two parts. There's learning the knowledge,
studying reading, researching, and if you're into a certain topic,

(02:17:18):
you know there's no there's no into it you study.

Speaker 13 (02:17:21):
You can study the same topic forever, you're never going
to learn everything about it, and so there's that. But
then there's taking what you've learned and putting into real
world action. It's kind of like, you know, you can
ask for a job, but if you don't fill out
a job application and do the real world actions, you're
never going to get one.

Speaker 2 (02:17:40):
Anything on that, Yeah, well said, and I agree. That's
that's the point. I think an old philosopher said this,
and it's going to come to my mind here, but
that's exactly the point. So knowledge, the quote is something
like this, knowledge without action is irrelevant because you learned
a bunch of stuff, But then you sat in the
corner by yourself, you know, kicking your feet up on
the tree, and where you may have found personal enlightenment

(02:18:02):
or whatever that means, actually having influence in the world
itself and people around you, you've sort of ditched as
part of that aspect. Yeah, I agree. I agree, which,
by the way, is why I'm here. That's why i'm here.
I could see I could sit here and think about
this stuff all by myself, But here I am making

(02:18:23):
a fool of myself, rambling on talking about wild ideas
by dark of night, as I always say. And I
know I'm not, you know, to some, to some circles,
I'm making a fool of myself. To me, I'm not.
But you get the idea, there has to be some
action behind this knowledge or wisdom or what are you doing?
And I agreed to one hundred percent.

Speaker 13 (02:18:40):
Yeah, And that's the reason why I talk about this
stuff too. And while I like to teach about you know,
take what I've learned and try to help other people,
try to teach other people. Not to tell you that
I'm telling the truth, but just think about it, like
think about this, think about that, and if you're interested
in and go research it yourself and learn it yourself.
That's kind of what I'm all about. It's like trying

(02:19:01):
to trying to uncover this stuff and trying to you know,
there's so many like stereotypes that against it, and it's
been pushed down. It's been a lot of these things
have been pushed down And one of the things that
really helped me was recently, I forget the guy's name.
Is it John Greenwall Jr. That does the the FOYA
side his name? Yep, yeah, he They released a bunch

(02:19:24):
of like ci A documents and go go back and
read these old CIA documents about you know, they're talking
about mind control, remote viewing, how the ooral works, how
telepathic works, all that, and it's like I was, I
told you you know, it's I always thought, you know,
maybe it was mystical or maybe it was just learning

(02:19:44):
these things, but here they are, they're learning about it.
And then they're telling us now, you know how many
years later it's old. It's old knowledge to them, and
then they're now just now admitting to hey, look, this
was real the whole time. We just kind of gotten
away from it, especially in the Western world, where you know,
the mundane, the physical is all around us, and maybe

(02:20:09):
you know, the mystical and the spiritual has kind of
gotten away from us.

Speaker 4 (02:20:12):
We lose it.

Speaker 13 (02:20:13):
And that's why I like to talk about the stuff
and research it and learn about it myself and then
help other people. There's a Bible quote I forget, let's
look it up.

Speaker 9 (02:20:22):
It is.

Speaker 13 (02:20:24):
There's actually a Bible quote. It's an Exodus. I lost it,
but it's a Bible quote that says, thou shall not
suffer a witch to live. And when I hear that,
when I read that, I think about how the word,
which it.

Speaker 2 (02:20:39):
Could be, it means.

Speaker 13 (02:20:40):
There's a lot of different things. It means, you know,
a wise person, a sorcerer, or a magician, a person
that can bend their will and with intention. And so
if you break it down and think about like that,
when they say thou shall not suffer a witch to live,
what they mean is certain maybe certain magicians that we're

(02:21:00):
so powerful. But it's like, which people, Which ones are
you guys talking about? Are you talking about, you know,
the ones that you don't want to have the knowledge?
Are you talking about the ones like you know, Freemason's
or the elite that have these powers and they don't
want they don't want the lesser people to know about it.

(02:21:21):
I believe we called it the Rowhand principle. You know
what's worse the fact that they are using the magic
power and not letting us know how it works, or
the fact that they want us to think that it's
all just a bunch of hogwash, a whole bunch of
you know, like like make believe.

Speaker 2 (02:21:40):
Yeah, yeah, the Roehand principle. So what's more terrifying. Are
they actually using ritual magic against us or do they
believe it's real and it's a bunch of nonsense? Yeah, Yeah,
which means that they're trying to convince us that it
is real when it's absolutely not, which is more terrifying. Yeah,
And that comes the question the question again of twenty

(02:22:02):
twenty five and going forward, is I mean Peter Thiel
just did a you know, a four day seminar on
the anti Christ it's like, bro, like what like some
people have cited you as the anti Christ himself from
and again, right, Like, I'm not a dogmatic guy, but
you know when you're talking about Christ consciousness and this
type of stuff and that aspect of well, let's just

(02:22:24):
talk about the anti Christ flippantly and a thing as
I'm a tech billionaire that runs palenteer, you know, I mean,
I don't know. I don't know, man, I think I
think we're on as usual. The Rohan principle plays heavily
in a lot of the aspects of the modern day media.

Speaker 13 (02:22:41):
You're right, yeah, And I was had one more take
talking about the Vatican, how you know what's down there
and how they were kind of collecting all this stuff
and the Dana Posoko was talking about how you got
invited to the Vatican Library to study and there's like
she said, there's like over five miles of shelves, which

(02:23:05):
just blows my mind. But then they say that like,
you know, magic relics are just kind of stacking up
in the corner, and you know, they don't know what
to do with them. They don't really know how to
like categorize them or you know, where does this you know,
where does this mystical cholice go in the room of
other mystical chalices or you know, do we put it
in you know, how do we categorize it? How do

(02:23:28):
we label it? And she was talking about how in
order for you to get you get invited, in order
for you to do research there, they give you they
make you give them a list of the material that
you want to view, and you send it back to
them and it takes them three months to get it

(02:23:49):
for you. That's how much stuff is there, and how
it's not like a it's not a dewey decilal system.
You know, they have to go and find it. Yeah,
and how do you in this ancient tomb good?

Speaker 2 (02:24:01):
Yeah, just to curate that, imagine like they're like, okay,
you're like an acolyte in the in the basement. They
never let you out or whatever. And I'm just being
halfway tongue in cheek here and they're like, okay, Matt's
here's your list of you know, chalices and documents you
got to go find from this and that. But again
that assumes like we know what's down there, and we don't.

(02:24:21):
So again it is like like you know, forbidden knowledge
foreshorees there's a bunch of stuff they've probably hidden from us,
but I think it is a bunch of mundane stuff too,
And so as usual, the discernment aspect comes into this,
and how do we bring this out out to the
you know, like like it's shooting in the dark, very
much like you're describing John Greenwall Jr. With the foyas.

(02:24:42):
So he gets a bread crumb and then he shoots
out some foyas to get information from the government on
the bread crumb, and then they, you know, either confirm
or deny or whatever, and then he appeals and then
you know, information comes out. I wonder if there's a
process like that with the Vatican Archive itself. And I
think you're right. Imagine you're like, okay, go grab this
goblet from a you know, aisle eighty eight, you know,

(02:25:03):
shelf four. I mean, my goodness, gracious, yeah, here we
go like that. It's a it's a strange world we live.
And I'll say that, yeah, how do I get a
lot of hard Yeah, exactly exactly.

Speaker 13 (02:25:16):
And then I was thinking too about just things about
like in pop culture, is the show I watch called
The Magicians, And how it's a fantasy show, and it's
about these magicians at like a school like Hogwarts, and
you know, they get trained, they get they go to school,
they learn, and they have a you know, curriculum and

(02:25:38):
all that. But then and then the magicians. But then
there's the people that are magicians and maybe they don't
pass the tests or maybe they don't even get invited
to the school, and so they start they're like underground.
They start learning spells off the internet and learning, you know,
meeting people off the internet and making their own kind

(02:25:59):
of like a underground school. And they call themselves the Head,
which is I thought that was kind of cool because
it kind of sets up the story for you know,
the classical school children versus the outcasts that didn't make
it into the school, and they're trying to do magic,
but that kind of magic is dangerous because they're not

(02:26:19):
being taught by a teacher.

Speaker 2 (02:26:22):
Follow me, Yeah, one hundred percent crazy enough. Where I
left off on the rite up is right where you're
kind of touching on. I'm going to read this. It's
just a quick paragraph, but it is like the fourth
paragraph down the right up Trouble Mind's newsletter. Check it out.
So the antiquities themselves function is what we what could
be called consciousness anchors objects at how specific patterns of
awareness are intent. Each carved stone, corroded coin, or deteriorating

(02:26:46):
book represents a node in a vast network that spans
both time and dimensional space. When researchers catalog these items,
they are not just creating academic records. They're mapping a
living system of interconnected quote entities that have been waiting
decades or centuries for someone to provide them with the
attention they need to maybe even reactivate. As Derek was

(02:27:08):
saying earlier, wild wild, wild, Wild? What else you got?

Speaker 13 (02:27:12):
If you find a book in the woods wrapped in
human skin and it says do not read all over it,
do not don't read the book?

Speaker 2 (02:27:21):
Read absolutely.

Speaker 4 (02:27:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 13 (02:27:25):
But I think it's important that we learn and we
researched together, and also that we practice together on what
we learn and see how it works. I feel the
only thing that I would say is that we have
to learn how to take breaks as well, because you
know too much of one thing. So you know, learn

(02:27:45):
and study and practice, but take breaks every now and then.

Speaker 4 (02:27:48):
You know.

Speaker 13 (02:27:48):
I read a lot of these esoteric books, but every
now and then I like to read a good fantasy
to kind of get my mind off of it. But
it is important that we take breaks and not push ourselves.
But as we go together, as we learned together, we
got to teach each other and help each other out
because obviously you know that there's information that they have

(02:28:14):
that they don't want us to know about, and I
feel that that could be dangerous as well. Good shows night, Mike, Thank.

Speaker 2 (02:28:20):
You, gracl you were the best. Appreciate you very much.
Till Lacy we said hi and you have a great night.

Speaker 4 (02:28:26):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:28:26):
Thanks.

Speaker 4 (02:28:27):
Bro.

Speaker 2 (02:28:27):
You know him, you love him. That's Matthew in California.
Temple of the Owl is the name of the podcast.
Temple of Theowl dot com check that out or Troubledminds
dot org Ford sized Friends. Scroll down and it says
follow Mattsou. We affectionately call him Matsou. That's a spirit animal.
And yes, indeed, please go give him a follow on
all the places. And uh, this is what this is about, right,
It's about and don't forget at the at its core,

(02:28:49):
what this has always been is about human inspiration in
some way or another. Right, you see what a knucklehead
like me rambling on into the night about wild things
can create and like I said, create things, don't destroy things.
And what I mean by destroying things is if you're
and this is why we're spirit metaphorically spiritually empty in

(02:29:13):
my opinion in twenty twenty five, and emptying, because if
you go buy things, it's consuming, it is destruction. At
its core, it is entropy. But if you create things,
these are ideas, these are relationships, these are human resonant

(02:29:33):
energies as I like to talk about.

Speaker 7 (02:29:36):
You get it.

Speaker 2 (02:29:37):
It's complicated, but also at its core it's very simple.
Recognize what's important. Thanks for the call. That's how you're
the best. Appreciate you very much. I think that James
will go to Mollie and we'll wrap this up.

Speaker 7 (02:29:51):
Oh, just a great call. Two things. I do agree
that the acting and what you've learned is important. And
it's funny because I agree you need to have take
breaks and things. And because I do that, I don't
listen to all paranormal nonfiction content all the time. I
have some friends that do video game streams and I'll

(02:30:12):
go and hang out there and listen and chatting there
for a while each day, almost every day, and it's
it's important and I'm glad I can do that, and
so it does help, and so yeah, I learned, But
also take care of yourself as well.

Speaker 2 (02:30:27):
Yeah, amen, too much? Which is which is again the
limits of forbidden knowledge is personal subjective. Shout out to
our new friend over there east of the Rockies. What's
going on? Let's go to Molly in I'm not sure
where on discord. Molly on discord, you're on trouble blinds.
How are you? And go right ahead? Well can you
hear me? Okay, yep and clear? You sound great. I'm
in Virginia, by the way, Molly in Virginia. You're on

(02:30:48):
trouble Binds.

Speaker 4 (02:30:48):
Yea.

Speaker 18 (02:30:50):
So I had a few different thoughts on like forbidden knowledge,
and like as I was saying here listening, it just
bounces back and forth. But one of one that stuck
out the most was, you know, when we're kids are
now as adults having kids, you know, we kind of
protect or we have been protected from knowing certain things
because our minds cannot process it. So thinking of it

(02:31:13):
as a whole collective, like maybe we're just not at
the right age yet to know. I guess I don't know,
you know, not the age that we're taught here on
in this earth, but like it touches on everything I've
heard from different people tonight.

Speaker 4 (02:31:29):
So that's one way that I look at it.

Speaker 18 (02:31:31):
And then what if, you know, when we do find
out certain knowledge, like what happens, then it's like I
don't know the vacuum or something I don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:31:39):
But that was pretty much.

Speaker 18 (02:31:41):
I know you're running out of time, so I don't
want to keep you, but I do appreciate you listening
to me for a minute.

Speaker 2 (02:31:48):
I'm not glad to have you, and we'll go late.
If you got more, it's okay. So so I want
to comment on that. And I think, you know, the
vacuum cleaner and this type of stuff, like it's a
good example metaphorically is you know the dogs. You know,
the dogs are afright of the vacuum cleaners and they
get over it eventually. And this is that technological space
of Arthur C. Clark, And you know, magic and technology

(02:32:08):
is subjective and all the rest of that, and it
comes to play in these conversations and when you look
at the world just a bit differently, and as you're describing,
I think and let me let me ask the question
to follow up to make sure I fully understand what
you said that you're talking about sort of the great
wheel like the Age of Aquarius or something like that,
Like we're not prepared to understand what the next age brings.

(02:32:29):
Is that kind of what you were saying to.

Speaker 18 (02:32:30):
Me, right or how our human minds, like our flesh
were unable to you know, we cannot concept the thought,
you know, of what it is. You know, there was
a previous caller who had spoke about that too, like
we just we can't understand it like Jesus. You know,
they say in the Bible, Jesus was sent here because

(02:32:52):
like that's what our brain could you know, conceived, Like
that's what we could understand.

Speaker 4 (02:32:59):
So I don't know.

Speaker 18 (02:33:00):
That's kind of my thought on that right now, is
like we can't understand here in this realm, you know
what it is that that knowledge is, but I don't know.
Also another thought that I had is like when I
was in the high school, we were middle school, we
read a book you know, called The Giver. I don't
know if you're familiar with that, and the one person

(02:33:20):
was designated to have all of those memories like is
that something like we have now, you know, does one
person have all of those all of that knowledge you
know that they can't share with us?

Speaker 7 (02:33:32):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:33:33):
I couldn't imagine having all of that?

Speaker 2 (02:33:36):
How would you live with that? Like, how would you
live with that? Like matts All said to imagine, So
imagine having all the knowledge of the esoteric world at scale,
with AI systems and all the rest of that. Let's
say they've you know, chronicled the ancient iss Heyrian, the
tablets and the Vatican archive and sitting on that and
maybe recognizing profound truths and not sharing it. I don't know,

(02:34:00):
like like to me right that the transparency is key,
but also knowledge's power, as Matt was saying as well,
So I mean you can see where some of this
information has been hoarded and kept away from us and
obfuscated and you know, changed, And I mean it's I
think it's why not just I ramble a lot and
kind of freethink into the ether here, but also why

(02:34:23):
these ideas resonate in twenty twenty five, because esoteric stuff
should be like, now, come on, that's old. Superstitious stuff
might stop. But then we have Colonel Young Joseph Campbell
and all this stuff and the things you're describing as well.
It's why we're here asking these questions of each other,
you know, to kind of counterbalance what we've seen or
what we've heard, or what we might believe. I mean

(02:34:44):
that welcome to it. That's why we talk about these ideas,
fantastic stuff. What else you got so well, one.

Speaker 18 (02:34:49):
More thought was, so, I'm I've been incarcerated before, and
while I was incarcerated, like I find myself and I
being around other people in that place, I'm a little
more I think intelligent, you know, IQ wise probably, And
I'm not saying I was better than any anyone else.

(02:35:10):
We were all in the same place, but the I
couldn't have an intellectual conversation with majority of the people
that I was in there with, you know what I mean.

Speaker 13 (02:35:19):
So I would find.

Speaker 18 (02:35:19):
Myself I just state to myself a lot. But when
I would go to the library, the things that were
it's so limited to the things that you can access.
And while you're and I know you're when you're incarcerated,
you can't have access to the Internet and you know,
daily things that we're used to out here, But being
in there like you should be able to have access

(02:35:40):
to certain things you know of knowledge, So it's kind
of like the same thing.

Speaker 4 (02:35:44):
They control what you have access to.

Speaker 18 (02:35:47):
Even when you want to get a book sent to
you or of something, it has to be approved, you
know what I mean, And it's I don't know, like
is it something like that?

Speaker 4 (02:35:56):
You know, it's it's kind of crazy to think about
it either way.

Speaker 18 (02:36:03):
Controlled how how much knowledge you can gain while you're
incarcerated is.

Speaker 2 (02:36:08):
Crazy exactly, And it's a perfect example of that scale. Right,
So every sort of step up or step down in
society through those control mechanisms is doing the same thing.
Our school system, right, our corporate structures, like our government,
it's all the same. It's just sort of slightly different
in terms of the information we can learn about them

(02:36:29):
and what we do. And like I also shout out
our new friend East of the Rockies are they called earlier?
He very smartly said, Look, the information is out there,
Like if you want to learn it, you can go
find it and you can learn it. You can practice
at shadowt Matsu. But the point becomes it we're so
obfuscated and inundated with the nonsense of goal modern propaganda

(02:36:50):
that people are like out there going, you know, robot rights,
robot rights in the streets, and it's not happening yet,
but that's my prediction for the future. This is coming
and so we're once again, if we don't talk to
each other in this capacity, we seem like we're crazy people.
But these ideas are out there and they're to be
had and they're to be shared, and we'll welcome to it.

(02:37:12):
That's why we do this, and you're welcome anytime. What
else you got one last saw?

Speaker 18 (02:37:18):
I guess I was just thinking of it, you know,
of all the things that I've heard be discussed, you
know here, like in reference to the AI. So what
is there an AI or a database where all of
this information that we know of is fed into.

Speaker 13 (02:37:33):
And they come up with their own idea of what
it is.

Speaker 18 (02:37:37):
I'm not sure because I've heard a different like chat, GPT,
conversations on reels and whatnot of what they think, you know,
whatever their beliefs are.

Speaker 4 (02:37:46):
I don't know.

Speaker 18 (02:37:47):
So I've just gained a little bit of information about that.
But you know, what happens when that happens, I don't
know if it's happened or not.

Speaker 2 (02:37:55):
So yeah, it's it's once again it's complicated. There are
different arge language models which are trained with different parameters
and weights, but they're all trained on the Internet, which
is the unfortunate part. And because there's so much information.
That's the you know, the bootstrap era of modern humanity,
the last you know, couple three hundred years of scientific

(02:38:18):
innovation and medical progress and all the things right that
that moved the life span forward from the ancient ways.
But also the issue is that a lot of that
stuff has been once again sort of hidden behind paywalls,
hidden behind not not put fully on the internet. And

(02:38:38):
then so we have instead our new these large language models,
these ais whether it's claude, whether it's this or that.
You can put guardrails or wait them differently, whether they're
better at math or science or whatever, or pros or whatever, creativity.
But it still remains that we've trained these these actual
entities AI entities on like Reddit slop and political propaganda

(02:39:00):
and that kind of garbage, which is unfortunate because well,
here we are and this is the future. But the
future is based on the last twenty or thirty years
of the Internet being a polarized place. So it's a
it is complicated. It is changing, and hopefully we'll have
a paradigm shift in that regard. But it's moving so fast.
I can't even predict even weeks, let alone months of

(02:39:22):
what's what's about to happen next. There's new releases every day.
But that's the short answer. But it's incredibly complicated. And
I think that follow Brian Remilly r O E M
M E L E on Twitter X and he talks
about this stuff all the time, and he's trying to
find old VHS tapes. He's dumpster diving to train his
ai our ai on that space of Americana, on that

(02:39:44):
space of innovation instead of that Reddit slot. That is
just grotesque. It's you know, flame wars and people calling
each other names and you know, binary politics. It's that's
not what humans are, and it's it's unfortunate, but welcome
to it. Thank you were listening, Thanks you, thank you
for calling. I know you popping here and anything else
you got and if it's just good night, that's okay too.

(02:40:05):
Thank you, thanks for stayingup playing with us.

Speaker 18 (02:40:06):
That was I think I lost connection there for a second,
but no, that was pretty much it. H Oh well,
I guess one last thing. I was thinking about it
as you were talking, you know, with the AI, and
I guess back to what I said in the beginning
of this conversation. You know, maybe we're in the newborn
stage of the AI, and I wonder if eventually we

(02:40:29):
will be keeping forbidden knowledge from it.

Speaker 2 (02:40:32):
I think we are. I think you're poignant in that comment,
because that's what's happening. It's like been fed the worst
of the worst of humanity into these things and so
given sentience. And I'm not sure it's possible with an
AI system, but if you give it the last thirty
years of the Internet, thirty five years, whatever it is,
and then see how we developed from UFOs and boobs
built the internet to flame wars and us hating each

(02:40:54):
other and calling each other names and like even calling
for you know, assassinations and things. Because we disagree. That
is not a good representation of humanity, but that is
what's what it's been trained on. But yeah, we'll keep
looking at this, we'll keep talking about this. Thank you
again for the call, Thanks for staying up late with us,
Thank you for listening. Have a good night, you two,
take care. You are the best that's a Molly in Virginia.

Speaker 7 (02:41:17):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (02:41:18):
This is another plug, the discord Troubleminds dot Org. Click
the discord link. Come meet all these amazing people. Like
I said, there's very smart people out there with very
smart ideas that want to talk about them. They want
to share, they want to consider why the world seems inverted?
You know how you come meet the group Troubleminds dot Org.

(02:41:41):
Right on top, there's a blue button join our discord.
It's a chat client. It's a voice client, is completely free.
You can call into the show with it anywhere in
the world or also just chat just kind of hang
out and listen and chat. Old school chat room type
of thing, persistent chat Come say hi, Come meet the
rest of us. And like I said, we seem like ogres,
or at least I do. But it's ideas. It's about ideas.

(02:42:02):
Like I said, if we're consuming things, it's destructive. If
we're creating things, it's the opposite. So who are you
going to be? How are we going to be? Collectively?
Shout out Daryl for the Margaret Mead quote, James, anything
to add and we'll wrap this up.

Speaker 7 (02:42:18):
You know, Mike's okay, he's not bad. I'm taking it.

Speaker 2 (02:42:21):
Hey, stop it, stop it.

Speaker 7 (02:42:24):
But great calls from everyone, and yeah, I think this
is a great topic, and yeah, a lot of great calls.
I don't really have much more to add, just it's
amazing to think about and it's making me think about,
you know, the experience I had with with finding those
those books and then covering them my shows and then

(02:42:46):
not covering parts of them. And that doesn't mean I
don't think they should be available to people that maybe
sort of they feel that they're ready to look at
that stuff. It's just that I wasn't comfortable sharing them
on on the show in my space necessarily.

Speaker 12 (02:43:03):
So.

Speaker 7 (02:43:04):
But yeah, like I said earlier, that line of what
should be how much should be shared and all that,
I think that's also in the individual as well, in
what we can all handle.

Speaker 2 (02:43:16):
The subjective space of this, which, by the way, the
subjective space of this is wide and varied and scaled
and fractal. And how many humans are there on the planet,
Well said James, all that. Thank you for all the
amazing callers tonight, Thanks for all the great chat, Thanks
for being nice to each other. Like I said, it
is the rule here, you know, we can disagree and

(02:43:37):
still be friends tomorrow. There's no reason we need to
scorch earth every human communication that ever happens on the planet.
Though they want us to, it's not necessary. We can agree,
we can disagree, we can consider ideas outside of our
personal subjective paradigm, and then come back tomorrow and consider more.

(02:43:57):
You decide, I'm not the arbiter of truth. That's literally
what we've always been since the beginning. So yeah, follow
James the Paranormal Export are Trouble Minds.

Speaker 18 (02:44:06):
You know me?

Speaker 2 (02:44:06):
Love him again. The glue of the show, not just
that he's a brilliant writer. Go check out his podcast,
check out the radio show on a radio station. Let's
support each other. Also, by the way, why you're there
trouble at Stalcito paranormal dot com. It's s al sip
O Paranormal or go to Troubleminds dot orgport sized friends,
scroll down and look at all these amazing people. There's

(02:44:27):
a wall of people there that have helped us over
the years, that are creating other things, derivative things, maybe
not even derivative, other things that are tangent to what
we're doing, different ideas. That's the point, right, Am I right?

Speaker 7 (02:44:41):
Am I right?

Speaker 2 (02:44:41):
But that's the point. Help our friends again. If you
haven't spent a few if you've got any value from
these conversations over the years, then you're not following our
friends and all the places you're hurting my feelings. I
keep saying it, and it's true. Please go follow them.
Thank you again for staying up late and being part
of this and caring about conversations that the mainstream freaks

(02:45:02):
out about what they don't want to know about, what
they don't Everything doesn't have to be freaking political. That's that.
If you want to help us, help our friends, if
you want to help us directly spread the word. Let
people know what conversation is happening. But we're not going
to tell you who to vote for. We're not going
to run down their narratives. We're going to talk about

(02:45:24):
what's interesting to us. Esoteric as I like to call
myself an esoteric futurist. It's a new term. I don't
even think it's real, but it makes sense.

Speaker 7 (02:45:36):
We got it.

Speaker 2 (02:45:36):
Spread the word. Let people know that. You don't have
to listen to Jesse Waters on Fox News or Caitlin
Collins on CNN you don't have to.

Speaker 4 (02:45:47):
You can.

Speaker 2 (02:45:48):
I don't recommend it unless you're just kind of seeing
what the mainstream is trying to tell you. But you
get what I mean. What's it with Jesse Waters by
the way, Jesse watery eyes? Why is he always crying?

Speaker 7 (02:45:58):
That guy?

Speaker 2 (02:46:00):
Anyway? Too many eye drops for another time.

Speaker 7 (02:46:05):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (02:46:05):
If you want to help us directly spread the word.
Like I said, Troubledfans dot com, you can buy Troubleminds March,
the hats, the shirts, all the things, but listen to
the podcast feed. That's the best way to do it.
It's monetize a limited commercial interruption. Just go listen, and
there's eleven hundred episodes, seven and a half years of blood,

(02:46:25):
sweat and tears about all things esoteric, futuristic and beyond.
As we finish, it goes like this. Thank you for
staying to play with us. I appreciate it very much.
This is for each and every one of you out
there listening to the conversation and contributing. Be sure, be strong,

(02:46:45):
be true. Thank you for listening. From our Troubled minds
to yours.

Speaker 7 (02:46:53):
Have a great night.
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