August 6, 2023 • 34 mins
Attention, business leaders! Transitioning from hands-on to the helm? Avoid sinking your ship! In this episode, we spotlight five catastrophic HR blunders even seasoned CEOs make. Discover how these missteps can cost you more than money, and unlock transformative strategies to elevate from "busy bee" to visionary leader. Elevate your game, safeguard your culture, and champion your business like never before. This isn’t just advice, it’s your roadmap.
Tune in. Step up. Transform.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sonya Songer (00:23):
monthly(.
Welcome to the True CEO Podcast, where we boldly uncover the
secrets of leadership and guideCEOs to triumph in the realm of
human resources.
I'm your host, Sonya Songer,and it's an honor to have each
visionary mind tuned in today.
(00:44):
In this episode, we fearlesslyshed light on the top five HR
mistakes that CEOs must avoid,and this, of course, is in
relation to new business owners.
Brace yourself for a journey ofenlightenment as we navigate
the intricacies of HR management, empowering you to cultivate a
thriving workforce.
As always, we have our expertpanel with us to discuss these
(01:08):
topics, and that is going to beLaVonne Shields, our accounting
expert.
We also have LaKeyshaCobbs-Hayes, who is our overall
CEO expert.
We Acacia Smith.
We have Acacia Smith, who isour marketing expert.
I've already introduced myself,Sonya Songer, and I'm the human
(01:29):
resources expert, and this topictoday is actually specific to
my field.
I will just get right into thetopic then.
The first mistake that Inoticed that new business owners
make is that they have a pooror non-existent hiring process.
They tend to think especiallythe ones that come to me for
(01:50):
consultation services they tendto think that, hey, I'm just
going to hire some people andI'm like, hey, how are you going
to do that?
And they have them.
LaVonne Sheilds (02:00):
I'm just going to tell them to show up and get
a login Right, right, and ifit's I got employees.
Sonya Songer (02:05):
I'm just going to post an opening in the newspaper
.
People still read those Indeed,yeah, no they don't even.
The newspaper.
That's scary.
They do still exist, FYI.
They are online.
I believe they are still inprint as well, but as in
physical print, but definitelythere's not a lot of thought put
(02:30):
into the process.
They just think they're goingto hire a workforce on and keep
chugging along.
Acacia Smith (02:38):
So things have changed?
Sonya Songer (02:39):
Thank you for that .
Yes, and point of fact, theyhave, and so I just want to
point out that, not just knowingwhere to place your ads,
knowing strategically where toplace your ads and how to go
about that process, whatpositions do you even need to
hire for Everybody?
LaVonne Sheilds (03:01):
Everybody just needs somebody to come in Right
Exactly A warm body.
Sonya Songer (03:05):
Oh, you know what you have a pulse.
I like that.
Yeah, I like that.
I do my HR and do my accountantthings.
LaVonne Sheilds (03:10):
They handle my point.
They do my company, they do thewhole deal.
That's something I want to know.
Acacia Smith (03:15):
Those outlining those roles right In what you're
saying.
The hiring process how, from a,let's say, starting point, do
we hire an employee?
If we need everybody, when dowe start?
Sonya Songer (03:29):
Well, I mean, that's exactly where you start.
Who do you need and what do youneed them to do immediately?
Because the first thing youshould be doing is talking to
your company's accountant.
LaVonne Sheilds (03:41):
You can't afford that, you're fine.
Sonya Songer (03:44):
Talk to whoever is helping you with your finances
Got you, because what can youafford?
If nobody is helping you withyour finances, then I'm assuming
you look at your bank statementevery day.
You look at your bank accountevery day.
What can you afford?
And how do you know what youcan afford?
Start looking at other jobboards and looking to see what
(04:05):
positions are posted and whatyou feel that you need and what
those other positions are paying, because you are not bringing
anybody into your organizationif you are not being competitive
, so you might have to do manythings on your own for a period
of time.
It really depends.
Do you need somebody full-timeor can you deal with somebody
(04:27):
just?
LaVonne Sheilds (04:27):
being part-time .
I just by that I ask thatquestion.
This is also when you'redetermined in like what's the
actual workload?
Because the last thing you wantto do is say, I got a full-time
position and they just sittingthere on TikTok all day.
Sonya Songer (04:38):
Right, exactly.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (04:42):
Don't be mad, I will be mad.
So what type?
Acacia Smith (04:45):
of assessments, would you say, to have for
yourself as a business or youremployees, to know what level
you need?
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (04:54):
the work right.
Acacia Smith (04:55):
Or they are capable to do that.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (04:56):
So one of the things I actually coach on
is because this kind of fallswithin the realm of HR, but also
kind of CEO coaching, right?
So what do I need to do first?
First of all, I need to get allof the things off my plate that
I don't like doing or I'm notreally great at, and so that's
(05:17):
where you start.
You started saying, okay, I am,I'm the talent.
So therefore, if I can'treplace me being a talent, then
I need somebody that needs tocome in.
Right, I need to have somebodycome in that's going to be able
to take over the things that Iabsolutely do not know.
I do not know HR, I do not knowaccounting, I do not know, you
(05:40):
know the intricacies of casemanagement.
So who can I hire to come inand take over the things that I
don't know?
That it take it off my plate tothen move and be in this, you
know, in the realm of okay, well, where can I operate in my best
talent?
So that that that's the firststep is identifying.
(06:02):
So there's not really anassessment.
I mean, you can do the.
You know the Roosevelt matrixto figure out.
You know, what am I good at?
What's urgent, you know what'snot urgent, what's important
versus not important, and thenthose things that are not
important, not urgent, thenthose are the things that you
absolutely need to delegateimmediately off your plate so
(06:23):
that you can handle the otherstuff.
LaVonne Sheilds (06:25):
That's also found in your business plan.
When you truly do a businessplan, you go to your operation
section.
You're identifying what are the, the SOPS, operating procedures
for each area of your business,your marketing, your sales,
your operations, your this andthen that, let that's also going
to let you know, okay, so yourKPIs and then who's supposed to
be doing that role and stuff.
(06:46):
Who's supposed to be doing thatrole.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (06:47):
So if you know that, you should be
thinking about all that stuff.
LaVonne Sheilds (06:49):
That's your job If you know you got a brick and
mortar and it's someplace wherepeople walk in that we know we
need a receptionist.
We need someone who's there togreet them, not as that person
also doing all these other tasksor and what is, the things that
we want them to have when theycome in.
Like you know, you don't wantthem sitting there popping gum
on their phone, like hey, so youhere to see this person.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (07:11):
This person needs to be so
fundamental and have so manydifferent skills that you're
able to offload at least threeto four jobs to this one person.
So you may have to pay a littleextra to get that person, but
that person needs to operate.
And all of the skills that youdo not have right, all of the
office management stuff, all ofthe HR stuff, how who can I get
(07:34):
to bring you in?
So you know, I would always saythat the first person to bring
in your business, to be honest,is the HR, and it needs to be
said you need to have somebodyHR slash you know or office
manager or office manager butthey absolutely need to have HR
experience.
Acacia Smith (07:51):
I guess how.
How do we address, you know,the, the, let's say we do the
hiring right and to this spacewhere this person, they might
not be able to do all three jobsor I didn't make it.
The expectation of what I'masking are they didn't write, so
(08:11):
where do you go with that?
And the misclassification?
Sonya Songer (08:15):
It's always going to be a learning career or is?
It also it's ongoing.
It's ongoing.
There's always going to be alearning career you can hire
because you also need toremember this just like you are
able to sell yourself, otherpeople can do the same thing, so
you always put their best footforward in an interview process.
(08:40):
People are not always going tobe honest on their resumes, so
you are going to go through this.
Even the largest, bestcompanies to work for go through
this.
That is why you have largercompanies that have the money
have a more involved and moreextensive selection process,
(09:04):
because you're always, always,always going to get to a point
where you're there's just goingto be bad people that you hire.
You're going to make a bad hire.
Acacia Smith (09:14):
It's going to happen.
Sonya Songer (09:16):
It absolutely is going to happen and you move on
and that's actually going to beone of the topics that we
discuss as far as documentationbut we'll get to that later but
you, absolutely you get rid ofthat bad hire and you move on to
the next hire and hopefullythat's a better one.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (09:33):
Pretty, cliche, but you know that old
saying that you hire slow andfire fast, fire fast.
If you fire quick, I mean firehigher fast, fire fast too, just
doing both Fire fast, firefaster fire faster.
(09:54):
If you've seen it this personis not a good fit within their
90 days and make sure that youhave everything but make sure
that you have a process.
Sonya Songer (10:03):
I think that's the main point here is don't just
go into this cold.
You need to sit down and,whether it be with somebody or
on your own, you need to puttogether an actual process once
you determine those positionsthat you absolutely cannot live
without, so that we'll free upyour time to actually perform
the strategic planning of theorganization and move forward in
(10:26):
, in and getting your companyoff the ground.
Once you do that, then now youneed to start looking at
developing the job descriptionfor those roles, because you
need to know how you're going toadvertise for the person that
you're looking for.
So you need to develop that jobdescription.
You need to develop thoseinterview questions.
You need to.
(10:47):
There needs to be an actualprocess in place and if you
don't know how to do thosethings.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (10:51):
what you do is you just hire an HR
consultant, somebody that workswith you on a very hard time
level that can come in and giveyou what you need.
This person doesn't have towork more than five to 10 hours
a week.
They're usually anywherebetween 85 to 175 to 250.
(11:12):
It just depends on what youneed done.
So just know that if you can'thire and you don't have these
skills, then you need tooutsource these things.
But you must have some kind ofeither consultant or you must
have somebody on staff thatknows how to do these things,
because as a new CEO and newentrepreneur, you're not going
(11:35):
to have the skill set, unlessthis was your background.
As far as compliance and laws,oh, absolutely, because you
don't know what to put on there.
I mean, I can go, you know, takesomebody's Indeed ad, but I
mean, what does that do for meif I don't know exactly what I
need in my business?
Acacia Smith (11:49):
Right, I guess that goes into the next one,
which is Miss classifyingemployees.
Sonya Songer (11:58):
That is a big one, and so many companies get sued
for, and or shut down withintheir first year of business for
this faux pas.
Yeah, see how I worked on it,yeah.
Acacia Smith (12:11):
Yeah.
Sonya Songer (12:13):
So but yeah, and when I say Miss classifying
employees, I specifically meanwhen you are small, you just
want to bring people on.
That can help youUnderstandable.
That does not mean that you canjust make everybody a
contractor so that you don'thave to worry about payroll
taxes and workers compensation.
(12:34):
Oh, they're going to get thatright.
So you are putting yourself insuch a worse position by Miss
classifying somebody becausethey can come back at any point
in time and say, hey, theymisclassified me and if they can
prove that, which likely theycan, you are now on the hook for
(12:55):
back pay, back overtime, backtaxes, back this, back that
penalties my back hurt, yourback hurt and potentially
shutting down your organizationbefore you even get it off the
ground.
So it is so very important torealize that not everybody can
(13:16):
be a contractor and noteverybody is supposed to be a
contractor.
There are certain rules thatyou have to adhere to when
you're looking at that, such asare you controlling their time?
Are they utilizing yourequipment to get their job done?
You trained them specificallyfor the roles at the end Did you
?
Exactly.
So how much of their time isdedicated to you?
(13:40):
Do they have their own businesswhere they are doing the same
task for other individuals?
So there's a lot that goes intothat test, and the government
is not playing, because theywant their money too.
So, the solution is to assumethat the person is a W2 actual
(14:01):
employee.
Unless you actually get out thetest rules and making sure that
you can adhere to that and thisperson that you want to bring
on can adhere to that, don'teven try, just hire them on as a
W2 employee.
Acacia Smith (14:20):
This sounds like number one, but truly before you
even do that you have to knowwhat you're going to do, right.
LaVonne Sheilds (14:28):
What your?
Sonya Songer (14:28):
process is, but I mean these don't necessarily
have to be in any particularorder, so they're not like.
This one is the highest.
Acacia Smith (14:35):
I'm like the consequence and what you just
said, though, is so detrimentalto even the mentality of a
business owner.
I can speak as a creativegetting into business.
That can be a littleintimidating.
It should be, it should be, itshould be, it should be.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (14:51):
It's very important.
Acacia Smith (14:52):
So what else is a solution here?
A mistake that we can learnfrom in this process To correct
that.
Sonya Songer (15:02):
To correct the misclassification of employees.
I mean, really, there's nothing.
I don't know what else to tell.
You Don't do it.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (15:11):
There's nothing else to say Talk to a
professional, right, talk to aprofessional, but ultimately,
We've had it where at least afew different people come back
and ask for their entireemployee file and by law you
have to give it to them.
So I mean, if you're saying ordon't disclose that that person
(15:33):
was a 1099, you're not givingout the tax forms, You're not
recording anywhere, you don'thave hey Chex stubs.
Oh my God.
Sonya Songer (15:42):
Hours Worked, all of those things I mean it's it
becomes so much cumbersome afterthe fact as opposed to if you
had just done it right in thebeginning.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (15:53):
Did it write the first time, yeah, but
and these lawyers?
They don't care about yourpockets.
Sonya Songer (15:58):
They don't Just approve yourself, right, it
ain't even worth it.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (16:01):
It ain't worth it.
Sonya Songer (16:04):
I mean so yeah, there's really no fix to that
other than to say err on theside of caution and just bring
the person on as an actualemployee if you are unsure,
until you get an HR person inplace, or until you get a
consultant in place that cantell you okay, this is the test,
this is who you want to bringon.
(16:24):
This person meets this and thiscriteria.
However, they're still notmeeting this final criteria, and
the law says all of thecriteria.
So that means no, this is a W-2employee.
Or they can say, okay, boom,boom, boom, this person checks
all the boxes.
Great, here's a template for aW-9 contract.
(16:46):
Make sure that you have themcomplete an actual W-9 form,
sign the contract.
Boom, boom, boom and here yougo.
But it is very important thatif you don't understand the
intricacies of that yourself,just bring the person on as a
W-2 employee.
Acacia Smith (17:02):
That was good.
I like that.
Sonya Songer (17:03):
Definitely safer.
LaVonne Sheilds (17:06):
Just trying to go back into it.
I'm just looking at him like wecan't, you just as my tax
person.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (17:12):
You don't want to go back.
You can't let me help me out.
You can't go back in and changesome stuff around.
LaVonne Sheilds (17:20):
You can't have the orange is not in my color
wheel, and so I may not go back.
What is this?
Don't break the law when you'rebreaking the law.
Acacia Smith (17:29):
Don't break the law.
Don't break the law when you'rebreaking the law.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (17:33):
You're never spoken.
I love it, don't break the lawwhen you're breaking the law.
LaVonne Sheilds (17:39):
You don't want to do this.
An employee.
That's such a tricky subjectbecause people think one thing
and they're using a differentterminology.
But then, when it's time toactually get the benefits or
really work something, I waslike oh no, you weren't an
employee, but I needunemployment.
Well, unemployment means thatthere was employment at some
(17:59):
point Right right right?
Therefore no.
And then now you mad.
And now this is the whole.
Sonya Songer (18:04):
Thing.
LaVonne Sheilds (18:06):
So, even as you as an employee coming into the
situation, you should be clearhey, what are you controlling?
What are my freedoms?
What am I able to do?
Because I want to make sure,hey, if I'm doing for you what I
actually do for other peoplethat I charge for, then, yes,
let's have a conversation to seeif I do qualify to be a
contractor for you, but if not,if you're telling me the time
I'm supposed to be there, you'regiving me the resources.
(18:27):
I'm supposed to be doing soundslike I'm an employee and we
should move accordingly.
So both sides of that needs tobe educated on what's happening.
Acacia Smith (18:35):
So that goes into that transition of after the
third mistake, right?
Sonya Songer (18:40):
So it does, which is why don't you have a handbook
?
Oh, because this, this shouldclearly spell out all of these
things.
Absolutely, you should have anemployee handbook because you
really want to make sure thatyou are putting out there what
(19:00):
the values are of yourorganization, what the mission
is of your organization, whatthe policies and procedures and
expectations are of somebodythat is employed with your
organization, so that there areno misunderstandings, there are
no mistakes, what and itshouldn't be just things about
what your organization expectsof your employees, right, but
(19:21):
what can they expect of you?
What are you providing to them?
What type of training do youoffer?
What type of benefits do youoffer?
What holidays?
You wanna have all of thisspelled out from the beginning,
so that there is no confusiononce you do start bringing those
employees in.
LaVonne Sheilds (19:38):
I like holidays one.
This is a big one too, yeah,the holiday one that can create
a whole conversation.
Acacia Smith (19:43):
Aren't we close?
LaVonne Sheilds (19:45):
No, why.
Sonya Songer (19:47):
Did you read your textbooks?
Tell us Page 37, paragraph two.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (19:54):
So it's like we get that question all
the time and we're just like,hey, you know, even I asked the
question when I first started.
I was just like okay, well.
She was like okay, keisha, well, how many do you wanna offer?
What are the holidays?
And I'm like what do you mean?
Like you know, because I wascoming from an employee mindset,
and she was just like well,your holidays are what you want
(20:17):
them to be.
If you don't wanna have anyholidays, often there's no
holidays.
Often I was just like okay,well, I don't want that.
LaVonne Sheilds (20:23):
Right.
So all of them and none of them.
Right, all of them and none ofthem.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (20:28):
So we don't wanna go to a train, let's
have a happy media.
Let's figure out something,because otherwise we're gonna
have some unhappy employees.
I'm muting the employeesDiscrimination, but it's always
been a question of what goes inthe handbook and how much are we
paying for this and how muchare we paying for that.
And you know, do you want tohave this?
(20:48):
And we had this big old thingabout.
Sonya Songer (20:50):
you know, that's the grievance process.
Acacia Smith (20:52):
My biggest thing is what's the training in this
Like?
Is there anything youabsolutely have to train people
on?
Sonya Songer (20:59):
You absolutely should train.
It's just a handbook If wewanna be real.
There's nothing you have to doas an employee.
Acacia Smith (21:07):
An employee put it in the handbook.
Sonya Songer (21:08):
Other than no, I mean in general, you don't have
to have a handbook, it is not alegal requirement.
Acacia Smith (21:13):
What?
Sonya Songer (21:13):
happens.
LaVonne Sheilds (21:14):
Roll the dice and see what happens.
Acacia Smith (21:17):
That is why it is one of the top five mistakes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah Right.
Sonya Songer (21:21):
That's why it's a top five mistake, because you
don't wanna roll the dice andsee what happens.
Because if you don't have anyof these policies or any of
these issues written down toback yourself, well then now
anybody that you employ can sueyou.
And well, they didn't tell methat I was expected to be at
(21:45):
work on time every day.
They didn't tell me that I hadto do this in order to get paid.
They didn't tell me this andthat.
So not only should you have anemployee handbook, but it should
be a part of your onboardingprocess to go over, if not the
entire handbook, at least someof the more important aspects
inside the handbook.
LaVonne Sheilds (22:03):
You didn't tell me you want me to be on time
and sober every day.
Where is that in the handbook?
Sonya Songer (22:08):
Where does it say that you should drug test me
just because I showed uptripping over?
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (22:12):
everything .
Sonya Songer (22:13):
Right here?
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (22:14):
Where does it say that Right here?
Where does it say that you cango through my things?
Sonya Songer (22:19):
before I leave just because I came in and my
backpack looks empty, but nowit's full of stuff it looks real
bulky.
You didn't say that I had tolet you look through my stuff.
We did.
LaVonne Sheilds (22:33):
Yeah, no we did Page 47.
Sonya Songer (22:35):
Paragraph 3.
Paragraph 3, line 8.
It most definitely is in there.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (22:43):
I need you to adhere to that.
Sonya Songer (22:45):
Right.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (22:46):
But it also saves you as a CEO, because
these are not things thatyou're typically thinking about.
You're thinking about okay, Ineed to get this business
started, especially as a new CEO.
I need to get this businessstarted and I'm thinking about
bringing in the money, and I'mthinking about also bringing in
the people, but then also you'renot thinking about all of the
other stuff that come along withbringing in the people In
(23:09):
addition to your clients.
You have client expectations,you have employee expectations.
You should have expectationsfor everything that you do.
I think, as a new businessowner, it's hard to say, okay,
well, what was I supposed toexpect there?
And oh, I have a family, that'stripping and they're asking us
(23:31):
to do X, y and Z.
Well, what does your parentagreement say?
What does this say?
What kind of you know thatlittle sign that says we have
the right to refuse service toanyone that is necessary?
Sonya Songer (23:43):
You don't know what you don't know, and that's
why it's so very important and Ithink this is a running theme
throughout most of our podcastepisodes is that this is not
just a selling point for us.
You truly need coaching andconsultation.
When you are a new businessowner Period, you just do
(24:06):
because you're not going to knoweverything.
Unless you are a new businessowner because you got rid of an
old business, you already knowthe whole process.
You know everything and you'rejust starting up another new
business.
That's different.
If you have never done thisbefore, you could have a
doctorate in business managementor what have you.
(24:28):
But when you have not actuallygone through the process
yourself, there's always goingto be things that you do not
know, and you need to get thatcoaching and that consultation
to make sure that you arecrossing your T's and dotting
your eyes and that you're notmissing anything.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (24:45):
No, get you a network.
Sonya Songer (24:48):
Network.
That was one of our episodesalso, so I think a lot of what
we've been discussing alreadykind of goes hand in hand with
this.
After not training youremployees.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (25:01):
What?
Why gotta train them?
They don't?
I paid them to come in and do ajob, they said they knew how to
do it.
Sonya Songer (25:07):
That's it, yeah.
They said you gotta do ahigh-drift training.
They said you gotta do ahigh-drift training and they
should know how to do that.
They said they knew how to doit.
They said you gotta do it.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (25:13):
They said they knew how to do it when they
walked in the door.
Sonya Songer (25:15):
So being a receptionist at a healthcare
organization as opposed to beinga receptionist at a record
store or at a law firm vastlydifferent things, somebody.
What experience did the personthat you hire have?
So they're going to go based onthat experience and that's how
(25:37):
they're going to work for yourbusiness.
If their experience was verystrong reception experience, but
at a law firm but you need themto now be a receptionist at
your healthcare organization.
Yes, some of those skills areabsolutely transferable, hence
you hired this person.
How do you want it done at yourorganization, versus how they
(26:00):
did it previously, or what theyhave in their mind how it should
go?
They're just going to come inand so now they're the CEO.
They run your business how theywant to, not how you want to
run.
Oh okay, so then that would bewhy training is so very
important.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (26:14):
Coming in and telling me how I'm going to
do what I'm going to do Checkthis out.
Sonya Songer (26:18):
He's going to tell me what.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (26:21):
I'm going to do with my business.
The answer is no, right?
Sonya Songer (26:25):
And I'm sure the answer is no for the rest of you
, business owners too, and thatis exactly why you should have a
training process for each andevery position that you bring in
Again, whether you're trainingyourself, because you all, right
now, all you're bringing in isthat other person to offload
some things to.
(26:45):
Well, you were doing thosethings first, so how were you
doing them and how do you wantthem done?
Acacia Smith (26:52):
It goes back to or goes into the next one of the
documentation right Ofperformance management so you
can give somebody the plans andthen measure or, you know, set
some metrics for those things.
Sonya Songer (27:04):
There should be metrics, there should be
measurements, there should bedocumentation and human
resources.
If you did not document it, itdid not happen, because any
judge is going to say show methe proof.
And if you don't have it andthey don't have it well at least
California.
I can tell you in Californiayeah, if neither party has it,
(27:29):
they're going to side with theemployee, most likely.
Acacia Smith (27:32):
So you're not doing your business.
Sonya Songer (27:35):
Hey she, this person brought this charge
against you.
They can't prove their point,but you also can't prove your
point either.
Well then, I'm going to go withthe person that brought the
charge.
Acacia Smith (27:48):
So so is there anything needed in that, like
feedback is or we can just firepeople?
There should be.
Sonya Songer (27:54):
You can.
Most states in the UnitedStates are at employment states
which means absolutely.
You can fire anybody at anytime, for any reason or for no
reason, as long as it is notdiscriminatory.
It's not discriminatory as longas that person is not in some
(28:15):
sort of protective.
LaVonne Sheilds (28:16):
And I just don't like you.
I'm doing that right, I just Idon't like you, so you don't I
just don't like you.
That is not illegal.
Acacia Smith (28:23):
Oh, okay.
Sonya Songer (28:25):
That is not illegal.
Do you really want to test that?
I Wouldn't, because they canfind a reason to say that
because she didn't like becauseI'm a woman.
She didn't like me because Iwas over 40.
She didn't like me because I'mblack.
She didn't like me because I'mHispanic.
She didn't.
She didn't like me, or whatever.
LaVonne Sheilds (28:45):
Yeah, for any other protected.
He was in retrograde.
Acacia Smith (28:54):
Virgo right, Although those are not protected
classes.
Sonya Songer (28:57):
So I don't like you because your Pisces is an
actual legal reason to firesomebody.
Oh, but don't do that.
Acacia Smith (29:12):
Sometimes things make sense.
That's all I'm gonna say.
Sonya Songer (29:19):
So I mean because any good attorney worth their
salt can spin that around toshow that Exactly.
So don't do anything right.
But, at the end of the day,absolutely document every.
You document the training thatyou gave that person when you
onboarded them.
You document that they signedoff, that they got their
employee handbook and theyunderstand it.
(29:39):
You document any feedback thatyou've given to that person,
even if it is not Feedback thatis necessary, of a disciplinary
nature to start.
All of it is is disciplinarywhen it comes to if that person
ends up being terminated orseparated from your Company at
some point in time.
So, hey, I had a coachingsession with this person on this
(30:01):
day.
Well, document that coachingsession send the email.
Send the follow-up email you hada verbal warning with this in
person, person on this day.
Again Follow-up email to followup on the phone on the
conversation that we had aboutyour performance, in which you
were late to work multiple times.
We had this discussion and thiswas the outcome of that
(30:21):
conversation and, going forward,the expectation is this, this
and this.
So Now you have that baselineof documentation to where now,
if things escalate, this personstill continues to be like you
know, f Yo start time and comein whenever they feel like it.
Now we have a written warning,but there's still also
(30:43):
documentation.
A before I even took you to awritten warning, so it doesn't
look like I'm being just a mean,horrible employer.
Yeah, we had a coaching sessionto where there was additional
training provided, where weasked you hey, do we need to
maybe adjust your start timebecause this doesn't seem to be
working for you?
Then we had anotherconversation after that because
you Ignored your coaching andnow we had a verbal warning and
(31:06):
then now we moved into a writtenwarning.
So really, that written warning, if you want it to be your
fight, I mean that writtenwarning can be your final
warning also.
Yeah, even though it's yourfirst written.
Hey, we've had thisconversation twice now.
I think I'm done here.
So you come, try me if you wantto and come in late one more
(31:27):
time.
Acacia Smith (31:29):
Cuz getting to the end point.
It kind of wraps around to thewhole thing.
Like you can say all this ifyou have all your Stuff together
, if you have it all togetherMakes sense, don't?
Sonya Songer (31:41):
um come at somebody like that and you don't
got a handbook where they weresupposed to know.
Right, exactly, you didn'tprovide any training when they
first started.
You didn't have a fullonboarding like Don't, don't
come at somebody sideways, andand you don't have these other
things, because you'll beopening up, opening yourself up
(32:05):
to a world of trouble, but oh.
Yeah those are the the fivemajor things that tend to lead
to more trouble More often thannot, for new business owners, so
I definitely hope that thisinformation was helpful to you
and that you took away Someinformation about the things
(32:27):
that you need to do in order toget prepared to move your
business to the next level.
As always, I am Sonia.
I'm your HR strategist withbossy HR.
You can find me on allplatforms by just looking up
bossy HR.
However, except Instagram, atwhich point I'm only bossy HR on
(32:49):
Instagram and Acacia where canthey find you?
Acacia Smith (32:52):
at BLC K MGMT.
On Instagram you can find me atLaKeisha.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (32:57):
Cops hay strategic underscore behavior,
and you Know I might be at thesnow.
LaVonne Sheilds (33:11):
Children can find me at the accounting
strategies across all platformsand, of course, to CEO podcast.
Sonya Songer (33:18):
We are on all podcasting platforms.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (33:20):
Absolutely .
Acacia Smith (33:22):
Thanks guys, thank you.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (33:52):
You.
monthly(.
Welcome to the True CEO Podcast, where we boldly uncover the
secrets of leadership and guideCEOs to triumph in the realm of
human resources.
I'm your host, Sonya Songer,and it's an honor to have each
visionary mind tuned in today.
(00:44):
In this episode, we fearlesslyshed light on the top five HR
mistakes that CEOs must avoid,and this, of course, is in
relation to new business owners.
Brace yourself for a journey ofenlightenment as we navigate
the intricacies of HR management, empowering you to cultivate a
thriving workforce.
As always, we have our expertpanel with us to discuss these
(01:08):
topics, and that is going to beLaVonne Shields, our accounting
expert.
We also have LaKeyshaCobbs-Hayes, who is our overall
CEO expert.
We Acacia Smith.
We have Acacia Smith, who isour marketing expert.
I've already introduced myself,Sonya Songer, and I'm the human
(01:29):
resources expert, and this topictoday is actually specific to
my field.
I will just get right into thetopic then.
The first mistake that Inoticed that new business owners
make is that they have a pooror non-existent hiring process.
They tend to think especiallythe ones that come to me for
(01:50):
consultation services they tendto think that, hey, I'm just
going to hire some people andI'm like, hey, how are you going
to do that?
And they have them.
LaVonne Sheilds (02:00):
I'm just going to tell them to show up and get
a login Right, right, and ifit's I got employees.
Sonya Songer (02:05):
I'm just going to post an opening in the newspaper
.
People still read those Indeed,yeah, no they don't even.
The newspaper.
That's scary.
They do still exist, FYI.
They are online.
I believe they are still inprint as well, but as in
physical print, but definitelythere's not a lot of thought put
(02:30):
into the process.
They just think they're goingto hire a workforce on and keep
chugging along.
Acacia Smith (02:38):
So things have changed?
Sonya Songer (02:39):
Thank you for that .
Yes, and point of fact, theyhave, and so I just want to
point out that, not just knowingwhere to place your ads,
knowing strategically where toplace your ads and how to go
about that process, whatpositions do you even need to
hire for Everybody?
LaVonne Sheilds (03:01):
Everybody just needs somebody to come in Right
Exactly A warm body.
Sonya Songer (03:05):
Oh, you know what you have a pulse.
I like that.
Yeah, I like that.
I do my HR and do my accountantthings.
LaVonne Sheilds (03:10):
They handle my point.
They do my company, they do thewhole deal.
That's something I want to know.
Acacia Smith (03:15):
Those outlining those roles right In what you're
saying.
The hiring process how, from a,let's say, starting point, do
we hire an employee?
If we need everybody, when dowe start?
Sonya Songer (03:29):
Well, I mean, that's exactly where you start.
Who do you need and what do youneed them to do immediately?
Because the first thing youshould be doing is talking to
your company's accountant.
LaVonne Sheilds (03:41):
You can't afford that, you're fine.
Sonya Songer (03:44):
Talk to whoever is helping you with your finances
Got you, because what can youafford?
If nobody is helping you withyour finances, then I'm assuming
you look at your bank statementevery day.
You look at your bank accountevery day.
What can you afford?
And how do you know what youcan afford?
Start looking at other jobboards and looking to see what
(04:05):
positions are posted and whatyou feel that you need and what
those other positions are paying, because you are not bringing
anybody into your organizationif you are not being competitive
, so you might have to do manythings on your own for a period
of time.
It really depends.
Do you need somebody full-timeor can you deal with somebody
(04:27):
just?
LaVonne Sheilds (04:27):
being part-time .
I just by that I ask thatquestion.
This is also when you'redetermined in like what's the
actual workload?
Because the last thing you wantto do is say, I got a full-time
position and they just sittingthere on TikTok all day.
Sonya Songer (04:38):
Right, exactly.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (04:42):
Don't be mad, I will be mad.
So what type?
Acacia Smith (04:45):
of assessments, would you say, to have for
yourself as a business or youremployees, to know what level
you need?
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (04:54):
the work right.
Acacia Smith (04:55):
Or they are capable to do that.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (04:56):
So one of the things I actually coach on
is because this kind of fallswithin the realm of HR, but also
kind of CEO coaching, right?
So what do I need to do first?
First of all, I need to get allof the things off my plate that
I don't like doing or I'm notreally great at, and so that's
(05:17):
where you start.
You started saying, okay, I am,I'm the talent.
So therefore, if I can'treplace me being a talent, then
I need somebody that needs tocome in.
Right, I need to have somebodycome in that's going to be able
to take over the things that Iabsolutely do not know.
I do not know HR, I do not knowaccounting, I do not know, you
(05:40):
know the intricacies of casemanagement.
So who can I hire to come inand take over the things that I
don't know?
That it take it off my plate tothen move and be in this, you
know, in the realm of okay, well, where can I operate in my best
talent?
So that that that's the firststep is identifying.
(06:02):
So there's not really anassessment.
I mean, you can do the.
You know the Roosevelt matrixto figure out.
You know, what am I good at?
What's urgent, you know what'snot urgent, what's important
versus not important, and thenthose things that are not
important, not urgent, thenthose are the things that you
absolutely need to delegateimmediately off your plate so
(06:23):
that you can handle the otherstuff.
LaVonne Sheilds (06:25):
That's also found in your business plan.
When you truly do a businessplan, you go to your operation
section.
You're identifying what are the, the SOPS, operating procedures
for each area of your business,your marketing, your sales,
your operations, your this andthen that, let that's also going
to let you know, okay, so yourKPIs and then who's supposed to
be doing that role and stuff.
(06:46):
Who's supposed to be doing thatrole.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (06:47):
So if you know that, you should be
thinking about all that stuff.
LaVonne Sheilds (06:49):
That's your job If you know you got a brick and
mortar and it's someplace wherepeople walk in that we know we
need a receptionist.
We need someone who's there togreet them, not as that person
also doing all these other tasksor and what is, the things that
we want them to have when theycome in.
Like you know, you don't wantthem sitting there popping gum
on their phone, like hey, so youhere to see this person.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (07:11):
This person needs to be so
fundamental and have so manydifferent skills that you're
able to offload at least threeto four jobs to this one person.
So you may have to pay a littleextra to get that person, but
that person needs to operate.
And all of the skills that youdo not have right, all of the
office management stuff, all ofthe HR stuff, how who can I get
(07:34):
to bring you in?
So you know, I would always saythat the first person to bring
in your business, to be honest,is the HR, and it needs to be
said you need to have somebodyHR slash you know or office
manager or office manager butthey absolutely need to have HR
experience.
Acacia Smith (07:51):
I guess how.
How do we address, you know,the, the, let's say we do the
hiring right and to this spacewhere this person, they might
not be able to do all three jobsor I didn't make it.
The expectation of what I'masking are they didn't write, so
(08:11):
where do you go with that?
And the misclassification?
Sonya Songer (08:15):
It's always going to be a learning career or is?
It also it's ongoing.
It's ongoing.
There's always going to be alearning career you can hire
because you also need toremember this just like you are
able to sell yourself, otherpeople can do the same thing, so
you always put their best footforward in an interview process.
(08:40):
People are not always going tobe honest on their resumes, so
you are going to go through this.
Even the largest, bestcompanies to work for go through
this.
That is why you have largercompanies that have the money
have a more involved and moreextensive selection process,
(09:04):
because you're always, always,always going to get to a point
where you're there's just goingto be bad people that you hire.
You're going to make a bad hire.
Acacia Smith (09:14):
It's going to happen.
Sonya Songer (09:16):
It absolutely is going to happen and you move on
and that's actually going to beone of the topics that we
discuss as far as documentationbut we'll get to that later but
you, absolutely you get rid ofthat bad hire and you move on to
the next hire and hopefullythat's a better one.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (09:33):
Pretty, cliche, but you know that old
saying that you hire slow andfire fast, fire fast.
If you fire quick, I mean firehigher fast, fire fast too, just
doing both Fire fast, firefaster fire faster.
(09:54):
If you've seen it this personis not a good fit within their
90 days and make sure that youhave everything but make sure
that you have a process.
Sonya Songer (10:03):
I think that's the main point here is don't just
go into this cold.
You need to sit down and,whether it be with somebody or
on your own, you need to puttogether an actual process once
you determine those positionsthat you absolutely cannot live
without, so that we'll free upyour time to actually perform
the strategic planning of theorganization and move forward in
(10:26):
, in and getting your companyoff the ground.
Once you do that, then now youneed to start looking at
developing the job descriptionfor those roles, because you
need to know how you're going toadvertise for the person that
you're looking for.
So you need to develop that jobdescription.
You need to develop thoseinterview questions.
You need to.
(10:47):
There needs to be an actualprocess in place and if you
don't know how to do thosethings.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (10:51):
what you do is you just hire an HR
consultant, somebody that workswith you on a very hard time
level that can come in and giveyou what you need.
This person doesn't have towork more than five to 10 hours
a week.
They're usually anywherebetween 85 to 175 to 250.
(11:12):
It just depends on what youneed done.
So just know that if you can'thire and you don't have these
skills, then you need tooutsource these things.
But you must have some kind ofeither consultant or you must
have somebody on staff thatknows how to do these things,
because as a new CEO and newentrepreneur, you're not going
(11:35):
to have the skill set, unlessthis was your background.
As far as compliance and laws,oh, absolutely, because you
don't know what to put on there.
I mean, I can go, you know, takesomebody's Indeed ad, but I
mean, what does that do for meif I don't know exactly what I
need in my business?
Acacia Smith (11:49):
Right, I guess that goes into the next one,
which is Miss classifyingemployees.
Sonya Songer (11:58):
That is a big one, and so many companies get sued
for, and or shut down withintheir first year of business for
this faux pas.
Yeah, see how I worked on it,yeah.
Acacia Smith (12:11):
Yeah.
Sonya Songer (12:13):
So but yeah, and when I say Miss classifying
employees, I specifically meanwhen you are small, you just
want to bring people on.
That can help youUnderstandable.
That does not mean that you canjust make everybody a
contractor so that you don'thave to worry about payroll
taxes and workers compensation.
(12:34):
Oh, they're going to get thatright.
So you are putting yourself insuch a worse position by Miss
classifying somebody becausethey can come back at any point
in time and say, hey, theymisclassified me and if they can
prove that, which likely theycan, you are now on the hook for
(12:55):
back pay, back overtime, backtaxes, back this, back that
penalties my back hurt, yourback hurt and potentially
shutting down your organizationbefore you even get it off the
ground.
So it is so very important torealize that not everybody can
(13:16):
be a contractor and noteverybody is supposed to be a
contractor.
There are certain rules thatyou have to adhere to when
you're looking at that, such asare you controlling their time?
Are they utilizing yourequipment to get their job done?
You trained them specificallyfor the roles at the end Did you
?
Exactly.
So how much of their time isdedicated to you?
(13:40):
Do they have their own businesswhere they are doing the same
task for other individuals?
So there's a lot that goes intothat test, and the government
is not playing, because theywant their money too.
So, the solution is to assumethat the person is a W2 actual
(14:01):
employee.
Unless you actually get out thetest rules and making sure that
you can adhere to that and thisperson that you want to bring
on can adhere to that, don'teven try, just hire them on as a
W2 employee.
Acacia Smith (14:20):
This sounds like number one, but truly before you
even do that you have to knowwhat you're going to do, right.
LaVonne Sheilds (14:28):
What your?
Sonya Songer (14:28):
process is, but I mean these don't necessarily
have to be in any particularorder, so they're not like.
This one is the highest.
Acacia Smith (14:35):
I'm like the consequence and what you just
said, though, is so detrimentalto even the mentality of a
business owner.
I can speak as a creativegetting into business.
That can be a littleintimidating.
It should be, it should be, itshould be, it should be.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (14:51):
It's very important.
Acacia Smith (14:52):
So what else is a solution here?
A mistake that we can learnfrom in this process To correct
that.
Sonya Songer (15:02):
To correct the misclassification of employees.
I mean, really, there's nothing.
I don't know what else to tell.
You Don't do it.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (15:11):
There's nothing else to say Talk to a
professional, right, talk to aprofessional, but ultimately,
We've had it where at least afew different people come back
and ask for their entireemployee file and by law you
have to give it to them.
So I mean, if you're saying ordon't disclose that that person
(15:33):
was a 1099, you're not givingout the tax forms, You're not
recording anywhere, you don'thave hey Chex stubs.
Oh my God.
Sonya Songer (15:42):
Hours Worked, all of those things I mean it's it
becomes so much cumbersome afterthe fact as opposed to if you
had just done it right in thebeginning.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (15:53):
Did it write the first time, yeah, but
and these lawyers?
They don't care about yourpockets.
Sonya Songer (15:58):
They don't Just approve yourself, right, it
ain't even worth it.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (16:01):
It ain't worth it.
Sonya Songer (16:04):
I mean so yeah, there's really no fix to that
other than to say err on theside of caution and just bring
the person on as an actualemployee if you are unsure,
until you get an HR person inplace, or until you get a
consultant in place that cantell you okay, this is the test,
this is who you want to bringon.
(16:24):
This person meets this and thiscriteria.
However, they're still notmeeting this final criteria, and
the law says all of thecriteria.
So that means no, this is a W-2employee.
Or they can say, okay, boom,boom, boom, this person checks
all the boxes.
Great, here's a template for aW-9 contract.
(16:46):
Make sure that you have themcomplete an actual W-9 form,
sign the contract.
Boom, boom, boom and here yougo.
But it is very important thatif you don't understand the
intricacies of that yourself,just bring the person on as a
W-2 employee.
Acacia Smith (17:02):
That was good.
I like that.
Sonya Songer (17:03):
Definitely safer.
LaVonne Sheilds (17:06):
Just trying to go back into it.
I'm just looking at him like wecan't, you just as my tax
person.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (17:12):
You don't want to go back.
You can't let me help me out.
You can't go back in and changesome stuff around.
LaVonne Sheilds (17:20):
You can't have the orange is not in my color
wheel, and so I may not go back.
What is this?
Don't break the law when you'rebreaking the law.
Acacia Smith (17:29):
Don't break the law.
Don't break the law when you'rebreaking the law.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (17:33):
You're never spoken.
I love it, don't break the lawwhen you're breaking the law.
LaVonne Sheilds (17:39):
You don't want to do this.
An employee.
That's such a tricky subjectbecause people think one thing
and they're using a differentterminology.
But then, when it's time toactually get the benefits or
really work something, I waslike oh no, you weren't an
employee, but I needunemployment.
Well, unemployment means thatthere was employment at some
(17:59):
point Right right right?
Therefore no.
And then now you mad.
And now this is the whole.
Sonya Songer (18:04):
Thing.
LaVonne Sheilds (18:06):
So, even as you as an employee coming into the
situation, you should be clearhey, what are you controlling?
What are my freedoms?
What am I able to do?
Because I want to make sure,hey, if I'm doing for you what I
actually do for other peoplethat I charge for, then, yes,
let's have a conversation to seeif I do qualify to be a
contractor for you, but if not,if you're telling me the time
I'm supposed to be there, you'regiving me the resources.
(18:27):
I'm supposed to be doing soundslike I'm an employee and we
should move accordingly.
So both sides of that needs tobe educated on what's happening.
Acacia Smith (18:35):
So that goes into that transition of after the
third mistake, right?
Sonya Songer (18:40):
So it does, which is why don't you have a handbook
?
Oh, because this, this shouldclearly spell out all of these
things.
Absolutely, you should have anemployee handbook because you
really want to make sure thatyou are putting out there what
(19:00):
the values are of yourorganization, what the mission
is of your organization, whatthe policies and procedures and
expectations are of somebodythat is employed with your
organization, so that there areno misunderstandings, there are
no mistakes, what and itshouldn't be just things about
what your organization expectsof your employees, right, but
(19:21):
what can they expect of you?
What are you providing to them?
What type of training do youoffer?
What type of benefits do youoffer?
What holidays?
You wanna have all of thisspelled out from the beginning,
so that there is no confusiononce you do start bringing those
employees in.
LaVonne Sheilds (19:38):
I like holidays one.
This is a big one too, yeah,the holiday one that can create
a whole conversation.
Acacia Smith (19:43):
Aren't we close?
LaVonne Sheilds (19:45):
No, why.
Sonya Songer (19:47):
Did you read your textbooks?
Tell us Page 37, paragraph two.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (19:54):
So it's like we get that question all
the time and we're just like,hey, you know, even I asked the
question when I first started.
I was just like okay, well.
She was like okay, keisha, well, how many do you wanna offer?
What are the holidays?
And I'm like what do you mean?
Like you know, because I wascoming from an employee mindset,
and she was just like well,your holidays are what you want
(20:17):
them to be.
If you don't wanna have anyholidays, often there's no
holidays.
Often I was just like okay,well, I don't want that.
LaVonne Sheilds (20:23):
Right.
So all of them and none of them.
Right, all of them and none ofthem.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (20:28):
So we don't wanna go to a train, let's
have a happy media.
Let's figure out something,because otherwise we're gonna
have some unhappy employees.
I'm muting the employeesDiscrimination, but it's always
been a question of what goes inthe handbook and how much are we
paying for this and how muchare we paying for that.
And you know, do you want tohave this?
(20:48):
And we had this big old thingabout.
Sonya Songer (20:50):
you know, that's the grievance process.
Acacia Smith (20:52):
My biggest thing is what's the training in this
Like?
Is there anything youabsolutely have to train people
on?
Sonya Songer (20:59):
You absolutely should train.
It's just a handbook If wewanna be real.
There's nothing you have to doas an employee.
Acacia Smith (21:07):
An employee put it in the handbook.
Sonya Songer (21:08):
Other than no, I mean in general, you don't have
to have a handbook, it is not alegal requirement.
Acacia Smith (21:13):
What?
Sonya Songer (21:13):
happens.
LaVonne Sheilds (21:14):
Roll the dice and see what happens.
Acacia Smith (21:17):
That is why it is one of the top five mistakes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah Right.
Sonya Songer (21:21):
That's why it's a top five mistake, because you
don't wanna roll the dice andsee what happens.
Because if you don't have anyof these policies or any of
these issues written down toback yourself, well then now
anybody that you employ can sueyou.
And well, they didn't tell methat I was expected to be at
(21:45):
work on time every day.
They didn't tell me that I hadto do this in order to get paid.
They didn't tell me this andthat.
So not only should you have anemployee handbook, but it should
be a part of your onboardingprocess to go over, if not the
entire handbook, at least someof the more important aspects
inside the handbook.
LaVonne Sheilds (22:03):
You didn't tell me you want me to be on time
and sober every day.
Where is that in the handbook?
Sonya Songer (22:08):
Where does it say that you should drug test me
just because I showed uptripping over?
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (22:12):
everything .
Sonya Songer (22:13):
Right here?
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (22:14):
Where does it say that Right here?
Where does it say that you cango through my things?
Sonya Songer (22:19):
before I leave just because I came in and my
backpack looks empty, but nowit's full of stuff it looks real
bulky.
You didn't say that I had tolet you look through my stuff.
We did.
LaVonne Sheilds (22:33):
Yeah, no we did Page 47.
Sonya Songer (22:35):
Paragraph 3.
Paragraph 3, line 8.
It most definitely is in there.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (22:43):
I need you to adhere to that.
Sonya Songer (22:45):
Right.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (22:46):
But it also saves you as a CEO, because
these are not things thatyou're typically thinking about.
You're thinking about okay, Ineed to get this business
started, especially as a new CEO.
I need to get this businessstarted and I'm thinking about
bringing in the money, and I'mthinking about also bringing in
the people, but then also you'renot thinking about all of the
other stuff that come along withbringing in the people In
(23:09):
addition to your clients.
You have client expectations,you have employee expectations.
You should have expectationsfor everything that you do.
I think, as a new businessowner, it's hard to say, okay,
well, what was I supposed toexpect there?
And oh, I have a family, that'stripping and they're asking us
(23:31):
to do X, y and Z.
Well, what does your parentagreement say?
What does this say?
What kind of you know thatlittle sign that says we have
the right to refuse service toanyone that is necessary?
Sonya Songer (23:43):
You don't know what you don't know, and that's
why it's so very important and Ithink this is a running theme
throughout most of our podcastepisodes is that this is not
just a selling point for us.
You truly need coaching andconsultation.
When you are a new businessowner Period, you just do
(24:06):
because you're not going to knoweverything.
Unless you are a new businessowner because you got rid of an
old business, you already knowthe whole process.
You know everything and you'rejust starting up another new
business.
That's different.
If you have never done thisbefore, you could have a
doctorate in business managementor what have you.
(24:28):
But when you have not actuallygone through the process
yourself, there's always goingto be things that you do not
know, and you need to get thatcoaching and that consultation
to make sure that you arecrossing your T's and dotting
your eyes and that you're notmissing anything.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (24:45):
No, get you a network.
Sonya Songer (24:48):
Network.
That was one of our episodesalso, so I think a lot of what
we've been discussing alreadykind of goes hand in hand with
this.
After not training youremployees.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (25:01):
What?
Why gotta train them?
They don't?
I paid them to come in and do ajob, they said they knew how to
do it.
Sonya Songer (25:07):
That's it, yeah.
They said you gotta do ahigh-drift training.
They said you gotta do ahigh-drift training and they
should know how to do that.
They said they knew how to doit.
They said you gotta do it.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (25:13):
They said they knew how to do it when they
walked in the door.
Sonya Songer (25:15):
So being a receptionist at a healthcare
organization as opposed to beinga receptionist at a record
store or at a law firm vastlydifferent things, somebody.
What experience did the personthat you hire have?
So they're going to go based onthat experience and that's how
(25:37):
they're going to work for yourbusiness.
If their experience was verystrong reception experience, but
at a law firm but you need themto now be a receptionist at
your healthcare organization.
Yes, some of those skills areabsolutely transferable, hence
you hired this person.
How do you want it done at yourorganization, versus how they
(26:00):
did it previously, or what theyhave in their mind how it should
go?
They're just going to come inand so now they're the CEO.
They run your business how theywant to, not how you want to
run.
Oh okay, so then that would bewhy training is so very
important.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (26:14):
Coming in and telling me how I'm going to
do what I'm going to do Checkthis out.
Sonya Songer (26:18):
He's going to tell me what.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (26:21):
I'm going to do with my business.
The answer is no, right?
Sonya Songer (26:25):
And I'm sure the answer is no for the rest of you
, business owners too, and thatis exactly why you should have a
training process for each andevery position that you bring in
Again, whether you're trainingyourself, because you all, right
now, all you're bringing in isthat other person to offload
some things to.
(26:45):
Well, you were doing thosethings first, so how were you
doing them and how do you wantthem done?
Acacia Smith (26:52):
It goes back to or goes into the next one of the
documentation right Ofperformance management so you
can give somebody the plans andthen measure or, you know, set
some metrics for those things.
Sonya Songer (27:04):
There should be metrics, there should be
measurements, there should bedocumentation and human
resources.
If you did not document it, itdid not happen, because any
judge is going to say show methe proof.
And if you don't have it andthey don't have it well at least
California.
I can tell you in Californiayeah, if neither party has it,
(27:29):
they're going to side with theemployee, most likely.
Acacia Smith (27:32):
So you're not doing your business.
Sonya Songer (27:35):
Hey she, this person brought this charge
against you.
They can't prove their point,but you also can't prove your
point either.
Well then, I'm going to go withthe person that brought the
charge.
Acacia Smith (27:48):
So so is there anything needed in that, like
feedback is or we can just firepeople?
There should be.
Sonya Songer (27:54):
You can.
Most states in the UnitedStates are at employment states
which means absolutely.
You can fire anybody at anytime, for any reason or for no
reason, as long as it is notdiscriminatory.
It's not discriminatory as longas that person is not in some
(28:15):
sort of protective.
LaVonne Sheilds (28:16):
And I just don't like you.
I'm doing that right, I just Idon't like you, so you don't I
just don't like you.
That is not illegal.
Acacia Smith (28:23):
Oh, okay.
Sonya Songer (28:25):
That is not illegal.
Do you really want to test that?
I Wouldn't, because they canfind a reason to say that
because she didn't like becauseI'm a woman.
She didn't like me because Iwas over 40.
She didn't like me because I'mblack.
She didn't like me because I'mHispanic.
She didn't.
She didn't like me, or whatever.
LaVonne Sheilds (28:45):
Yeah, for any other protected.
He was in retrograde.
Acacia Smith (28:54):
Virgo right, Although those are not protected
classes.
Sonya Songer (28:57):
So I don't like you because your Pisces is an
actual legal reason to firesomebody.
Oh, but don't do that.
Acacia Smith (29:12):
Sometimes things make sense.
That's all I'm gonna say.
Sonya Songer (29:19):
So I mean because any good attorney worth their
salt can spin that around toshow that Exactly.
So don't do anything right.
But, at the end of the day,absolutely document every.
You document the training thatyou gave that person when you
onboarded them.
You document that they signedoff, that they got their
employee handbook and theyunderstand it.
(29:39):
You document any feedback thatyou've given to that person,
even if it is not Feedback thatis necessary, of a disciplinary
nature to start.
All of it is is disciplinarywhen it comes to if that person
ends up being terminated orseparated from your Company at
some point in time.
So, hey, I had a coachingsession with this person on this
(30:01):
day.
Well, document that coachingsession send the email.
Send the follow-up email you hada verbal warning with this in
person, person on this day.
Again Follow-up email to followup on the phone on the
conversation that we had aboutyour performance, in which you
were late to work multiple times.
We had this discussion and thiswas the outcome of that
(30:21):
conversation and, going forward,the expectation is this, this
and this.
So Now you have that baselineof documentation to where now,
if things escalate, this personstill continues to be like you
know, f Yo start time and comein whenever they feel like it.
Now we have a written warning,but there's still also
(30:43):
documentation.
A before I even took you to awritten warning, so it doesn't
look like I'm being just a mean,horrible employer.
Yeah, we had a coaching sessionto where there was additional
training provided, where weasked you hey, do we need to
maybe adjust your start timebecause this doesn't seem to be
working for you?
Then we had anotherconversation after that because
you Ignored your coaching andnow we had a verbal warning and
(31:06):
then now we moved into a writtenwarning.
So really, that written warning, if you want it to be your
fight, I mean that writtenwarning can be your final
warning also.
Yeah, even though it's yourfirst written.
Hey, we've had thisconversation twice now.
I think I'm done here.
So you come, try me if you wantto and come in late one more
(31:27):
time.
Acacia Smith (31:29):
Cuz getting to the end point.
It kind of wraps around to thewhole thing.
Like you can say all this ifyou have all your Stuff together
, if you have it all togetherMakes sense, don't?
Sonya Songer (31:41):
um come at somebody like that and you don't
got a handbook where they weresupposed to know.
Right, exactly, you didn'tprovide any training when they
first started.
You didn't have a fullonboarding like Don't, don't
come at somebody sideways, andand you don't have these other
things, because you'll beopening up, opening yourself up
(32:05):
to a world of trouble, but oh.
Yeah those are the the fivemajor things that tend to lead
to more trouble More often thannot, for new business owners, so
I definitely hope that thisinformation was helpful to you
and that you took away Someinformation about the things
(32:27):
that you need to do in order toget prepared to move your
business to the next level.
As always, I am Sonia.
I'm your HR strategist withbossy HR.
You can find me on allplatforms by just looking up
bossy HR.
However, except Instagram, atwhich point I'm only bossy HR on
(32:49):
Instagram and Acacia where canthey find you?
Acacia Smith (32:52):
at BLC K MGMT.
On Instagram you can find me atLaKeisha.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (32:57):
Cops hay strategic underscore behavior,
and you Know I might be at thesnow.
LaVonne Sheilds (33:11):
Children can find me at the accounting
strategies across all platformsand, of course, to CEO podcast.
Sonya Songer (33:18):
We are on all podcasting platforms.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (33:20):
Absolutely .
Acacia Smith (33:22):
Thanks guys, thank you.
LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (33:52):
You.
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