Episode 23 - Breaking Down Barriers: The Key to Transformational Leadership - True CEO

Episode Transcript
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Sonya Songer (00:07):
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Welcome back to the Truceeopodcast, where we're shaking up

(00:33):
traditional leadership like amartini on a hot summer's day.
Today we're talking about thetransition from trained leaders
to transforming leaders and howit's changing the game for
businesses everywhere.
Gone are the days of stuffy oldschool leadership styles.
Today's successfulorganizations are looking for
leaders who can think on theirfeet, innovate on the fly and

(00:55):
inspire their teams to greatness.
So grab a cold drink, kick backand get ready to be inspired as
we explore what it takes tobecome a transforming leader.
In today's ever-evolvingbusiness landscape.
It's time to stir things up andshake off the old ways of
leadership.
And stirring things up today isour regular panel of four.
We have LaVonne Shields, ouraccounting strategist.

(01:20):
We have LaKeysha Cobbs- Hayes,our CEO expert.
Myself, Sonya, I am the HRexpert here on the panel.
And then, as always, AcaciaSmith, who is our marketing
expert.
So kick us off, Keysha.
What, how, what Did?

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (01:40):
you say it how.

What Leadership?

LaVonne Shields (01:42):
How?
What Transforming?

Transforming leaders, just training them.

So we have trained leaders to
transformational leaders, andthat's going to be our topic for
today.
So I guess I'll start off witha question.
So would you say you are aperson who trains leaders or do
you transform?

leaders.
I would say it depends on thesituation because, absolutely,
if it is um as an easier routejust to get people trained,
absolutely.
I am someone who trains leaders.
I, especially in the HR realm.
I am about.
This is what it is and I needto instill that into your brain.

(02:27):
Now, if I am training somebodywho is actually working on my HR
team, very different.
I am transforming.
I am transformative in mytraining because I want this
person to understand everythingbehind it.
I want that person to be ableto grow in their role and move

(02:51):
beyond that particular role.
So, yes it.
So I would say it really justdepends.
If I'm just training new hires,I'm not going to lie.
These are the policies.

Don't force them to marry and follow
them.
How about you occasion?
Would you say that you are aperson who trains leaders or
transforms leaders?

Acacia Smith (03:12):
Um, I have the capability of both.

You got a capability of both.
Oh, my goodness, that is such agreat answer, people.

It comes down to people.
To me it seems like a peopleproblem, though Some people that
I've been People promise you.

She's about to EOS this.

It's definitely a people problem Issue People
issue, because there are certainpeople who listen there are
certain people who listen I'msorry, I'm a producer.
Certain people who listen andcertain people don't.
Certain people actually want togrow, some people don't and
some people aren't that levelyet.

So you can adjust like hey.
If you just want to be trainedon what to do, then okay here.

A, B and C.
This is what we're doing.

If you want to be transformed into a better
version of you in thisenvironment.
Hey, this is what you can do todo that.

Yeah, I've been engaged in capacity, based off
their capacity of what they'retelling me.

Their energy.
I have to.

I honestly feel like a leader.
You go up to their level.
No, I bring them, they bring.
I bring them to the level orinspire them to be at that level
.
Can I drag you?
No, I cannot carry you and I'mnot going to throw you.
As far as you know, I can'tthrow you that far, so I won't
believe nothing you say ifyou're not actually showing
action to what you're doing.
You know what I mean.

So what she's saying is you don't trust people
any further than you couldthrow them.

No, I was a leader .
She already said I can't throwyou that far.
I can't throw you that far.
No one, I can't pick up, nobodyother than my baby.

And I don't trust many.

I think you have those things.
What I've learned, or my mom'staught me, is trust is earned,
not given.
So you have to earn trust withme, whether I'm very kind, I'm a
friendly person, if you want tocall me that but do I trust you
?
I'm not that naive any longer.

I heard that one.
Look she's listening.
I like to hope that I'm atransformational leader.
I think almost like what youwere saying it really is how
they're going to receive them.
It was also based on how theperson is going to receive it.
Because when you're talkingabout helping them to build to
be the better version of whothey are.

(05:33):
Not everybody wants to gothrough that transformational
process, like with the work thatI've done with the Women's
Business Center and the programsthat I've facilitated.
It was you got to get out ofthis thing that you're in.
You got to look at this from adifferent perspective.
Now for some of them they tookthat as OK.
So this is on a training level.
She's telling me to do X, y andZ when other ones.

(05:53):
They looked at it and go oh,I'm not just a technician who's
building generates income, I'msomeone who's leading an
organization, which means nowthey're coming outside of
themselves and wanting to dothat.
But my hope is that I'm alwaysin a position of helping people
in some sort of transformation,in some way, shape or form.
And not just being a box checkerin that aspect of it, because

(06:17):
every experience that you gothrough is either going to
trigger you in some way torevert you back to whatever your
trauma response is to it, or isgoing to motivate you to go to
that next level.
And if you're not going to thatnext level, then you're stuck
where you are.

I love working with women and building
confidence and empowerment withwomen through workshops, and so
we do that with modest women forthe Inland Empire, and
something that I've seen as atheme is the lack of
understanding that we all haveto level up, because they ask me

(06:59):
well, what's the point?
What is this modest woman?
What's this thing?
I have to explain.
At a certain point, each one ofus go hit a wall.
We have to make a decisionabout our life if we're going to
level up or we're going to stayin that space, and they're oh
well, what about?
I've gotten a lot of feedback.
Well, what?
If you want to stay in thatspace, I want to support you, I

(07:20):
support you, but I'm going tosay in that space, you need to
be a value, you need to be theasset, you need to be the leader
in that space.
Then, if you're going to staythere, yeah.

Get on being that space on it.

Because there's something else most likely
calling you.

Yeah.

There's always something calling you, I'm a
good or bad yeah.

You will get that phone call yeah.

Well, I love the way you guys are
looking at it and I think thatyou're looking at it from the
other person's perspective.
What I want you to do isdefinitely change how you're
examining whether you are atransformational and or a
trainer.
Right, the difference is thatif you are, if you train leaders

(08:07):
, then you know how to leadyourself, you are liked, you
influence, for today, you askpeople to follow, you love to
lead, you are trained, you helppeople, you have a career and
you impact a few.
However, if you are atransformational leader, then
you know why they lead.

(08:27):
Right, you are contagious, youinfluence today and tomorrow,
you ask people to make adifference.
You love the people they lead.
You are trained and transformed,you help people to change, you
have a calling and you impactmany.
And so that's a littledifferent than you know the

(08:49):
explanations that you guys gave,just in general, because I mean
, if I'm going to say that whichtrainer, which one I am, I
would say that I'm absolutely atransformational leader.
Right, I would say that I knowwhy I lead.
I know that I have a calling.
Now, whether or not I'mcontagious or not, I mean that's

(09:10):
for y'all to decide.

But I think I'm pretty contagious here.
I'm just here.

From her brainchild.
Right.
I help people to make thosedifferent changes on a
day-to-day basis, whether it'sprofessionally, personally or
financially.
I feel like I absolutely have acalling and I impact many,
especially throughout the year.
So being a transformationalleader, as opposed to a trained

(09:40):
leader, is not so much aboutwhat the other person does on
the other side.
It's about who you are when youare making this transfer, when
you're training.

I feel like I answered it directly then.

I was like capable .
Sometimes the room doesn't callfor me.

Like I said, if I'm just training, to train, to
get it done, to get theinformation out there to like,
for example, new hires,onboarding, what happened.
That's what I'm just trying todo.

But it's not so much about your job title
.

So then you are a trained leader, not necessarily
a transformational Right, butwhen you're talking about when I
am doing my consulting or if Iam working with individuals that
are actually on the HR team,that's vastly different.
It's under the transformationalside of all those things that
you live in.

So I don't think you can separate the two.
You're either atransformational or you're a
trained leader.
I don't think that you have.
Why can you not?
I?
can't say that I don't have theability to, because then there's
a higher purpose than for whatyou're doing.
So if you're training thepeople that are coming on board,
then my guess, or what I wouldthink, if you are a

(10:52):
transformational leader, isyou're training them for the
culture, for the business.
You're training them to makesure that they're making that
transformation into a leader.
To me, there's no separation ofI'm going to only give you the
facts and not make you better.

(11:14):
But in this sense, because I'mtalking to you in a different
way, I'm talking to everyone inthe same way, I'm giving you
what you need at this time, forthe purpose that you need, but
it's also a higher calling.
So that's why I said you knowyou can't separate the two.
In my opinion, there's noseparation.
My calling is my calling.

Right.

So when I train, you know our leadership
staff versus our behavior texts.
I'm talking to them about thesame thing.
I'm talking to them alwaysabout leveling up.
I'm talking to them about beingbetter.
I'm talking to them about theculture and how to build.
But I'm not just talking abouthow to build at key, essential.
I'm talking to them about howto build as a person, how to

(11:56):
maintain and go up instead ofjust be at the position that
they are.

I agree with everything that you said, but I
still think there can be adelineation, because that's how
I feel.
Is it still a calling for me?
Do I still feel the same way?
I absolutely do.
But when I am looking at thisgroup of people and the type of
things that I'm training them on, yes, it is information that

(12:26):
will help them transition andgrow within the organization,
but is it a different type ofthing than when I am training
business owners on how to runand manage human resources
within their organization?
I absolutely think it's.
I think it's a different thingand I think I'm talking about
different things and it is moretransformational as opposed to

(12:49):
the what's happening when I'mjust training individuals about
the culture, about those things?

Do you feel like those things?
What you're saying, then, isthat like so I see, you know,
you hear like your purpose work,and then I hear your work, work
.
Does that make sense?
Like your career work is likeI'm training, and then the
purpose work, like your businessis I'm inspiring.

Right, I'm building the other.

Well, there's also the other part of a word.
If you look at, if you look attraining as the task, right,
there are people who will go inlike, hey, I'm going to teach
you A, B and C, and that's whatmy role is.
I'm in front of you to teachyou this.
However, if you're going in andsay I'm going to use this, then
I'm teaching you as a way foryou to get better and that's

(13:36):
what your mindset is.
Then that makes you, that putsyou, you, you internally, as the
transformational leader but,not every everyone.
It's like.
You know leadership.
People assume that it's a jobtitle, when it's not, and so you
can be trained to lead people,which, in all honesty, I don't
think.
You really can't be trained tolead people.
You're given, hey, this is yourjob, and you're either going to

(14:00):
take the job and say, okay, Ihave people underneath me, or
you're going to say, wow, it'smy responsibility to make sure
these people are the bestversions that they are.
For me.
I, I once I realized that I wasin a position of training, I
knew that it was more than justteaching people how to use
QuickBooks.
No, no, no, no.
What we're trying to figure outis how do we take this tool and

(14:21):
we use it for everything elseyou're doing in your business.
This is not just about youunderstanding how to write a
check in the system, how to do abank reconciliation.
What does all this informationmean?
So for you to get better, and Ithink when we're talking about
leadership, people get so hungup on the.
This is my title, as opposed tothis is my purpose.

(14:41):
This is my calling.
So for me, I'm hoping that I amalways transform, transforming
someone in some way, shape orform when I am in a leadership
position.

However, I know sometimes people only see
the hey check in the boxes thewater.

Some people are only going to see that I'm
checking the box.
I had somebody who did atestimony of when I they did a
review of one of my trainings,and their response was well, she
used too many stories.
Well, that's cause you werehere to check a box, you wanted
to learn this and you wanted meto go through.
Hey, this is what was supposedto happen.
However, the 90% of the rest ofthe people were like thank you

(15:20):
for letting me under, usingstories to help me understand
how this fits into the biggerpicture.
That's why I was saying it'sreally, you know, based off of
who's receiving it, because,though I'm coming from a place
of transformation, they mightthat might not be what they
signed up for.
Like, hey, I'm just here to dothis.

So I'm here for it.
I think that it doesn't matterwhat they came for.
If you're a transformationalleader, then you're there to
give the information in whichyou've been led to lead on, like
you see things that others donot see.
That's kind of like what yousaid a few minutes ago is you
probably weren't getting itbecause you weren't either

(15:57):
relating to the stories or you.
I didn't check a box for you.
Well, I'm here to check a boxor give you the information in a
way that you know.
One, I can explain it and two,that you can receive it.
And the next question is whatwould, what would you have
wanted to see different?
And then I think that takes youover to another level, right.

(16:21):
So then, being able to say,yeah, you weren't here, or you
maybe weren't hearing it the waythat I'm looking at it, but how
, then, do I make this betterfor everyone?
So what do I need to do?
Or what do I need to add?
That would be more of a.
You know that you would get theinformation.

(16:43):
And then the other thing, likeeven when you said, okay, I'm
teaching you about QuickBooks,the way that I view I guess the
way that I view behavior just ingeneral is I am here to relate
all of everything that I'mteaching.
So how can I relate this toyour personal life?
How can I relate this tobusiness?
How can I relate this to, like,everything that has to do about

(17:06):
you?
Because if you understandfinances in your personal life,
then you'll understand financesand business, which then can
lead you to some kind of nextlevel of financial, because some
people don't understand theconcept of how you do one thing
tends to be how you doeverything.

So that transformation comes into being
able to make that aha moment,especially for using finances as
the example, even if we usemarketing as in.
You can tell me well, you cando this.
I'm looking at you.
No occasion, I cannot, I cannot.
You know why I can't?
Because you're going to be likebut it's the same thing as this
.
My brain is on the new, can'tdo it.

Those are those spaces too, or it's like a gray
area, because you could be,let's say, like you're saying, a
transformational leader, butyou yourself training these
individuals, like you're saying.
I'm having to now, like yousaid, dilute it for you and sit
with you and figure out how tocommunicate with you and other

(18:06):
people's like you, you know whatI mean, and yes, that's the
part of becoming a better leader.
But that's not necessarilydiluting it.

You're just touching on aspects of it
that's going to reach each andevery other person.
So the question that is here iswhen have you asked yourself
why, when you have an a problem,versus why not?
And I think that's the shiftthat needs to change right.
We're talking about when haveyou as there's a problem?

(18:37):
And your first question is why?
Why is there a problem, insteadof looking for a solution and
saying why not?
Why can't we do this?
What is that next step?
So just question to the panelyou know, when have you taken
that step?

(18:57):
If there's a problem, are youlooking at it as a problem or
are you looking at a solution?
And when's the last time youasked yourself why or why not?

I mean, I think it probably depends on the
particular problem or hurdle,but I find myself asking that
quite often, especially whenworking with my clients, because
if there's an area that is ofconfusion to them when I'm
explaining something or they arejust having an issue in general

(19:33):
, they're telling me of someissue that they need my
assistance with, they need mysupport with.
Quite often it will be why okay,this employee did this and I,
you know what am I supposed todo?
Okay, let's why.
Why did that employee feel thatit was okay to do that?

(19:54):
How did this situation comeabout?
Because we need to look at howit started for you to understand
that this is not an isolatedincident.
This is something that canoccur in the future if we don't
see where it came, where itstemmed from, to make sure that
all of your employees understandand to make sure you understand

(20:16):
.
And how does that, you know,relate to how you're
communicating information toyour employees, how does that
relate to what they have anunderstanding of when you're
onboarding that?
So I ask that question oftenbecause I want to make sure that
my clients are looking at thebig picture and not just looking
at isolated incidents.

Yeah, I mean, that's the same thing with me
when I'm dealing with my clientsor I'm facilitating a program
is never the why.
That's never the question.
It's always okay.
So that's the fact of where weare.
But we wanna get here.
So where are we going?
Because there's usually alimited amount of time.
We can't just sit here all dayand just talk about the why.

(20:58):
This is Okay, that's fine,because that's what got us here.
The question that we're askingyou is what is gonna get us to
this next stage, whereas if youare doing this from an internal
part of this is my passion, Iwanna see people get better then
that's gonna be your naturalresponse.
If you're just someone who'strained on the subject matter

(21:18):
and you know how to talk topeople about the subject matter,
you're not gonna do the why notquestion.
You're just gonna go well, thisis just how it is.
You know the tax law is justwhat the tax law is, and so
that's just how it's going, asopposed to going well, no.
Well, yeah, that's the tax law.
The question that I have foryou is what are you looking to
accomplish so we can figure outhow we can make it fit into the
tax law.
So it's really about the leaderand where they're coming into

(21:42):
the situation.
Because even if you're dealingwith someone who wants to just
fight on the why okay, that'swhere you wanna hang, that's
where you wanna hang, I don'twanna hang there so we can
either end this conversation orwe can focus on the solution.
However, if you are someone whojust doesn't know how to
facilitate that kind oftransformation in someone's
thinking Like I had one personthat was in a facilitated

(22:05):
meeting and she was justdistraught, no matter how many
times it was.
So what does that have to dowith you right now?
So what does that have to dowith what your plans are?
So what does it have to do?
But she was in that spiral andthat was just where she was
stuck.
Now, me, if I was just ageneral trained leader on this,
I just would have let her stayin that stuck spot.
But I was like, okay, guys, wegot in this.

(22:27):
I need to give her my attentionright now and then walk her
through why, why not?
So why can't you take thisinformation and then create your
own thing?
Why can't you take thisexperience and turn it into
something different, whereasmost leaders would just be like
okay, well, thank you forsharing that.
Let's go to the next person andfigure out you know what?

can you give me You're up to it, you're
up to it, you're up to it.
And I think that's the biggestthing is when we're talking
about her being atransformational leader.
You and I just said this a fewminutes ago, but you see things
that others do not see.
You say things that others donot say, so we're constantly
looking for a solution.
And then you also believethings that others do not

(23:05):
believe.
So, like when did the you knowwhen was the last time you
initiated change and was willingthat no one was willing to hear
?
Okay, can you think of a timewhere you tried to initiate
change and no one was reallywilling to hear that?

Teenagers.
That's always the situation.
Sure sure you know, being amother of teenagers, they don't
ever want to hear it, Unless,again, you've established that
safe space where they can takethat step back and go all right.
So my mom, big pictures oncewas best for me.
There's a chance for me to moveforward with that one, but it's

(23:47):
again.
It's that.
Am I coming into this situationfrom the idea of no one?
This is bigger than me andbigger than this one situation,
like you were saying, are wetalking about this?
Are we talking about this oneisolated situation, or are we
acknowledging that thissituation is an example of the
bigger?
situation that we got going onto have that other conversation

(24:08):
Cause, yeah, most people want toget stuck in the and I can't.
I mean, look at it, from yourfriends to coworkers, to people
that you lead, it's like I can'tbelieve that this is what they
did.
Okay, we gonna spend as muchtime talking about that, or we
gonna talk about what's gonnahappen next, and you'll have
those people who are comfortablewith it yeah, girl, you should

(24:28):
quit.
Or that's not this.
we're gonna do this, and so it'sreally about how strong one of
the people are from the.
If you're the one being led,how strong are you in realizing,
hey, you're leading me down thewrong path.
This is not where I want to go.
And, from the leadershipstandpoint, do you know how to
grab the group and say, yep,we're not going there?
I mean, some of you guys can,if you choose, but for me, being

(24:51):
the facilitator of this, theleader of this, we're not going
that route.
This is where we're looking togo.
And not every leader, not aleader.
A leader who is just trained onthe subject matter won't
understand that dynamic that wegotta change what's going on in
here and lead the conversationinto.
And so then, what next?

Right.
So transformational leadersalso feel things that others do
not feel.
So who have you believed in andwhy did you follow them?
So I know for me I Can'tnecessarily say that I believed
in them.
I don't know if I trusted allthe way to believe in them in

(25:34):
the beginning, and that wasmainly when I was in high school
.
Like I had a teacher and she,like she is the main person that
I was, just like dude, I mean,you seem to show up, so I should
probably believe in you.
So I think for me it was for meduring that time.
I followed them because she wasconsistent and she didn't.

(25:58):
She validated who I was and orwho I, who I wanted to be,
because I definitely wasn't whoI was at that time, but she
validated where I was and who I,who I was at that time, and
that that's what made me followthem.
I know another one is I listen alot to John Maxwell and I was

(26:25):
just listening to Jim Rohn thismorning.
Listen to Jim Rohn and he.
He said something that was likecrazy.
So he was saying somethingabout jobs and he was saying
that you don't stay at a job,you don't provide service to a

(26:46):
job and that be the only thingthat you do forever.
Like at some point you can'tjust put all your faith in a job
and think that they're supposedto have loyalty to you, like
the loyalty is with theorganization.
That was like however, if youput service and work into your
family, then you can expect thatthose things are going to come

(27:09):
back.
So what things are you puttingyour loyalty and time and
investment into and how is thatworking out for you?
And I was just like dang, thatis crazy.
And I was just I was like Isaid I was listening to Jim Rohn
this morning and that was I waslike oh, okay, that was, that's
a thought.

(27:30):
Well what even makes it?

even more interesting is depending on the
time frame of when that was puttogether, because that the work
environment has shifted so muchin the last 40, 50 years.
So then went from yeah, you gota job and you stayed there.
You know you were there.
So then the question of okay,so are you putting the loyalty
in the job or you putting thatthat was a different thing?
And then then the whole well, Iwill, I'll move for a dollar

(27:53):
more an hour.

There I move for no loyalty.
Ask Chris Brown and wait.

Not me, and you're right, cause when I was,
I left the women's businesscenter with no problems.
When I was like I'm not just newdirector, she's not, she, she's
out, working outside of myvalue system, the expectations
that she has does not fit thepurpose of why I'm here and why
would I stay is not, doesn'tmake any sense for me.
So, yeah, my loyalty was to thepeople I was serving, not as

(28:29):
far as our client base, hadnothing to do with the
leadership or the organizationitself, because I can, I can
move somewhere else and findanother women's business center
If I wanted to, if that was.
My purpose was to serve thewomen's business center.
My purpose was to serve womenin business who came to the
center for us to port.
So, yeah, the loyalunderstanding where your loyalty

(28:52):
lies and the why you're in aparticular situation is very
important.
And then for me it was.
It was just poor leadership.
She was leading as a trainedleader and not a transformation
leader, as her predecessor was.
A transformational leader fromnot only internally but also how
we we interact it with ourclient base.

Oh, wow, wow Well, transformational
leaders also do the things thatothers do not do.
So that's what light has beenturned on in your life to do
things that others are notwilling to do you say.

I mean, I feel like I definitely do that on a
consistent basis with my clients.
They we've mentioned this inother episodes where I make sure
that I am available to them andI probably shouldn't, but I do

(29:53):
make sure that I'm available tothem as often or whenever there
is a need.
So I'm not just OK, I'm yourconsultant, these are our
scheduled times.
It's like no, if there's asituation going on, then email
me or text me.
I'm going to respond, I'm goingto see how you need support and

(30:16):
then, if I need to alter thingsto make sure that you get that
support in a timely manner,because there's a specific
situation going on immediatelyor what have you.
But I, I'm definitely doingthat and I'm doing it in a way
to where I want to model forthem what they should be doing
for their employees.

(30:37):
I'm not saying, you know, openup the boundaries of your
employees in the morning ExactlyI'm not saying that, but I am
saying look, if you expect thisof me and I am somebody that
works with you and you areconstantly complaining to me
about your employees' behaviorand certain aspects of their

(31:00):
behavior then then learn fromthis, notice what I'm doing for
you to show my loyalty, notnecessarily to you specifically,
but to what it is that I do,and you have to have that.
I mean, I'm so very passionateabout human resources and I'm
constantly touting that to myclients, to you have to have

(31:25):
that passion for your employees,no matter what industry it is.
They.
They feel that, they feel thatand that will make them want to
be around you and it will helpyou in being a transformational
leader for them.
But I'm, I'm, I'm modeling whatI want them to pick up.
I'm I definitely am alwaysgoing above and beyond for my

(31:47):
clients because I truly want tohelp them.
They truly feel distressed whenthey're contacting me at the
time and I don't.
I want to take that stress awayfrom them.
But I also want them to seethat dynamic of what, of what
that looks like.

And yeah, it's not a linear conversation.
Right, ok, so we're going to dothis and we're going to do this
, we're going to do this.
You're saying, no, there'sgoing to be some blowback in
this situation.
It's going to be some thingsthat we need to adjust.
It's not just a straightthrough which is trained versus.
To me, it's going back to thetrain versus the transformation
of the train.
Person's going to go well, no,we're going to use this form and

(32:24):
we're just going to do that,whereas the transformations
person go OK.
So, one is this the rightperson in the right position?
Did we did?
We?
Did we make that mistake fromour leadership?
Oh right.
Two, did we give them the toolsthat were necessary for them to
do the job?
Are they saying the problem isis external or is it internal,
whereas a trained person will gowell, no, we got to write them

(32:44):
up three times and then we'regoing to let them go, because
that's the policy, that's theprocess, that's what we do, and
where I loved how you put thatextra note on there saying but
this is my passion, so I'm goingto talk to you about.
Hey, this is how this works, asopposed with that, because it's
the same thing in my industry,which is known for being

(33:05):
transactional.
And I'm going to see you on taxtime or I'm going to see you
doing this, Whereas I'm like I'ma person yeah, call me If
you're in the T-Mobile Storetime.
Figure out if you're going tobuy that phone and can you put
it on your business.
I want you to feel comfortablecalling me on that.
I'm going to tell you, like,why are you asking me about a
$400 phone?
I don't care, Buy it, I canfigure out where to put that in

(33:26):
it's.
When you're telling me aboutthe $3,000 trip that you put on
the company, I can't figure outwhere does that go?
Like that's new.
You should have called me whenyou're planning that trip?

I can tell you what to do.

But that's the comfort level that I want.
When you don't know what youdon't know and I'm the person
who has that information feelcomfortable reaching out to me.
And we can figure out how thisworks in your scenario as
opposed to the.
Well, you know, the tax codesays it has to be da, da, da, da
, da, da da.
Not that I don't want to talkto me, because she's just going
to get so dry and technical andI don't know what the hell she's
talking about.
So that's how it goes, but tome, that's a very interesting

(34:02):
part about it, from theleadership aspect of it.
As a service provider, you'recoming into it with the passion
for what you do and not what Iwas just trained to do.
This is what I was trained todo, so this is what I do.

Right.
So transformational leadersalso focus on their own
transformation before leadingothers to it.
So there's this thing calledthe equipping cycle, and with
the equipping cycle, you have tobe very conscious of what
you're doing.
You have to show up.
That means that I'm going tomodel it, I'm going to do it,

(34:36):
and then you're with me, I do itand you're with me, so I know
what to do, and then I do itwhile you're there, and then you
do it and I'm with you.
We get to the now it's yourturn.
You go do it and then, once youdo it, then you teach the next
person to do it.

(34:57):
This equipping cycle, thesimulation model, is something
that you need to be aware of asyou're making these transitions,
as you're focused.
How do I, am I doing the thingsthat I would ask other people
to do?
If you can't show up and dothose things that you're asking
other people to do, then you'reprobably a trained leader.

(35:19):
A trained leader and not atransformational leader, and I
think that's going to be thebiggest thing.
As a leader, you have to bechanged to bring change.
You have to teach people whatyou know but be able to
reproduce who you are.
And if you can't reproduce whoyou are, then how much
transformation are you actuallymaking?

What I love about this cycle is the part of
the do with people, whereas mosttrained leaders do it, and I'm
going to grade you on yourcapability.
I think there was a meme orsomething that went out.
It was like you can't judge afish on its ability to climb a
tree.
Is that what a trained leaderwould see?

(36:05):
That hey, we're all in this jobso you can't do this?
What did you take intoconsideration?
And I'm not used to working inthis type of open space, so I
feel a little bit of anxietyhere, and that's what's slowing
down my productivity, or my teamdoesn't move as fast as I do,
so therefore, that's giving me aparticular attitude that I have
, which is again messing upproductivity.

(36:26):
A trained person is only goingto see that well, you're just
not doing this, whereas atransformational person is going
to go in and look at it and say, ok, so what do I see?
If I'm in your position, whatdo I see?
Can I make this adjustment?
If I can make this adjustment,then now I can help you figure
out how to make this adjustment,and we're going to do that
together, and then in thatprocess is where you're going to
find out.
Oh, you don't want to be here.

(36:47):
That's what it is.
Let's figure out where to putyou, where you'll be happy, so
we can make this work.
Or oh, these were the resourcesyou didn't have.
Let's see if we can find thoseto allow you to shine the best,
and not everyone has thatcapability.

So, Gaysia , where have you taken people
Right?
Because transformation requiresthat you're walking uphill and
I know marketing for some of usin here is uphill battle.

That does Steepest freaking uphill battle.
You could have voted.

So what are the questions I have is how
do you take someone from knowingto doing Right?
I know this is something thatneeds to be done, but how do you
get to the point of doing it?

I think it starts with a strategy, but you have to
attack the mindset.
That's what I was saying aboutthe gray area with the dilution,
because I cannot give you,let's say, a Kool-Aid, and
you're a baby, you know.

I mean not if you expect him to.
You know one half good tea.

Yeah, I can't.

I'm not crazy.

Not B-diabetic, not B-diabetic, just there's so
many extremes when it comes togiving something to someone too
early, too quickly, and theycan't digest it.
They can't even.
It's not for their system.
So I think it's starting thereand cleaning out the system.

(38:20):
Everything like you guys.

And training them of what they know Cleaning
out the system.
I like that.

Yeah, because, as we were talking, that's the
truth.
I was saying the gray areas,like as a leader.
There's moments where I'velearned how to lead while
leading and I have to say I'monly in that space as a trained
leader.
So do I understand that?

(38:46):
Yes, because at this space nowI need better leadership skills,
I need to produce betterleadership skills in that.
Oh no.

I'm not going to get an acknowledgement of
that.
Watch out, watch out.
It's almost like it's anacknowledgement of knowing.
Ok, I know, right now I'm in atrained space.
I am leading based off of whatit is.
I was just learn what I wasjust talk.
However, I also want to makesure that I'm taking, I'm
looking five, 10 steps ahead onhow do I improve, on how I'm

(39:18):
taking this information that Iwas talked.

Yeah, because you help people get better.
So, in relation to marketing, Ihave to take you from whatever
level you're at, so that beingthe foundation or baseline of OK
.
Well, you're here, so now Ineed to adjust how much sugar I
put in your tank, how much fuelI give to you, so that way
you're not burnt out or justoverflow.

Need to know where they are.
Yes, ok, as a trained leader,you would go.
Nope, everyone's got to passthis test at this level.
You have to know these things,and that's what I'm saying.

Like, at a certain point, I do need you to do that
.
You know, as a leader ingeneral, I need you to hit these
markers.
I need you to come tounderstanding that this is your
plan, not my plan for you, Right?
And so that part of like itgoes back to just how do you
start from not knowing?

(40:13):
How do you lead somebody whodoesn't want to drink the water?
Lead someone who doesn't wantto drink water.

Lead them out, lead them out.
This is where I live, but thoseare the I have led you to the
door.

And there's some people who, yeah, like we're
saying, they just don't drinkthe water.
But there are some people whereI can talk to them from their
mindset.
Let's get all the fears out.
What is your fears aboutmarketing?
Where is your concern?
What overwhelms you the most?
What keeps you up at night?
What are you actually?
And then, on the flip side,what are you actually inspired

(40:48):
about?
What do you create?
What do you dream about?
What do you imagine?
What are those things that youwrite down?
Let's use those, becausemarketing is just starting with
creation.
We do have to filter all thatbad boo boo ideas, all that gunk
all that stuff you don't wantto project.

(41:08):
So marketing is all about yourrepresentation.
It's all about what are youprojecting from your inside.
So I guess it's really startingwith where they are inside.

So, now that you guys have an idea or, I
guess, hopefully a betterunderstanding of the difference
between transformational and atrainer, what changes do you
feel like you would need to maketoday moving forward to be, or
is that even somewhere you wantto go?
Do you want to be atransformational leader?

(41:42):
I mean because technically youdon't have to right.

If you're checking the box, as an employee
, you have to do the job.
I mean, because there are someleaders, some managers, who, hey
, my job is to just make sureeveryone hits these particular
markers.
Then there's the other managerswho like, but I need for them
to want to hit the markers.
I need to figure out how,because if they don't want to,
then they'll do that.
Just enough, at just enoughstage.

(42:07):
And is that the culture thatwe're looking for in this
environment?
No, we want everyone to say,hey, collectively, we want to do
this.
And in that way, the one or twowho are like I'm just going to
do my job, I'm going to be thepressure, of that I'm the only
one who just wants to do this.

Oh, absolutely, which, I think, is
where we are.
That's why we cycle throughpeople all the time, because
they are just like oh, you'reactually wanting me to do more
than just.

You want me to grow and be a great person,
right.

Like.
I'm asking you to be more thanjust a job.
I'm asking you to do more.

I'm asking you to come in and actually work on you
.
There's like a grace because Idon't know about you guys, but
I've never been like, oh, I'mthe leader.
I'm usually elected to be aleader, you know what I mean.
And so that understanding of OK, well, what's my responsibility
?

I walk around in leadership.

Yeah, no, like she said, if it's mine, it's mine.
Not always will I operate inthat, because I'm not going to
take ownership for somethingthat you're doing.
I will easily probably becauseI am a people pleaser by nature
that I will easily take overwhat you have going on and help
you own it as being a, I guess,transformational leader.

(43:27):
I would assume at this point,hearing all the details in the
conversation, that by naturethat's who I am, as is a
transformational leader.
Because even with the trainedpeople, what I was going to say
is, even though they may nothear me at that time, I'm still
going to model, still going tolive in it, still going to grow
where I need to grow, and Itruly see those people who at

(43:50):
one point would not havelistened, just be inspired by
actually seeing you know, orwatching, just saying, because
it's not about the other person,it's about you.
Yeah, it goes back to you can'tteach anyone, you can only
inspire.

Absolutely .

Absolutely, and you're Carnegie.

So, knowing there's patterns to
transformational leadership,ones top down.
So leadership influence filtersdown, not up.
Small to big Mass movementsbegan with a few people, so
don't think that you're justgonna walk in there and just be
like oh yeah, I got everybody onthe line.

(44:32):
Let's go, and I love that too.

We were just talking about going through the
fog, like literally goingthrough the fog down the
mountain, and I was like youhave to take baby steps through
fog.
We know how fog can get realquick.
You can't see Thick, yeah,thick.
You can't see anything in frontof you, around you, on the side
of you, absolutely.
And when you're starting offmarketing, ceo, hr, all that,

(44:54):
that's what it feels like.
I don't know what's next when Itake this step.
I don't know.

You're not going to know until the clear
is up To either.
Learn more, do more, get aroundpeople who, right, keep moving,
you keep moving.
That's exactly what's going tohappen.
And then the other part isinside out, and I think this is
probably the most important one,which is your inner values, the
term, and your outward behavior, and so, knowing and looking at

(45:23):
what are my values, where doesthis lie?
One of the things that we didin the EOS process that I
thought was really good was andwhat?
does EOS stand for Entrepreneuroperating system with our
implementer.
One of the things that we didwas, instead of looking because
you know, I as the CEO I'm justlike, okay, I'm going to look at

(45:46):
, these are the values that Iwant the business to have.
Right, and when you're firststarting out, then that's
perfect.
You need to have that, you needto have some kind of value
system, you need to know whoyou're bringing in and why
you're bringing these people in,and you need to have a baseline
of what you want.
However, a few years later now,you want to read and say, hey,

(46:09):
are these the same values thatare being represented within the
company?
So one of the things that wedid was it was like okay, well,
look at the people around you,Look at the people in your
circle, and you can do this justin your friendship, you can do
it at your organization, but whoare the people?
If you can have 50 million ofthose people in your life, how

(46:32):
many of those people would youhave?
Like, what are?
What qualities do they possess?

What type of people would I multiply?

Yes, what type of people would you
multiply?
So if you have, you know, 15million of Sarah's, then can you
know what is Sarah?
And body that you like?
Right, what is her work ethicis stellar, you know.
She shows up and leaves late,right she?
She goes above and beyond.
She's personable.

(47:02):
Everybody likes her.
Whatever those qualities are,then that's where you start to
dive into your values.
And even the same, like I said,when you get around your
friends, if you're just like man, this person is draining my
energy every time I talk to them.
Now that's probably not theperson that you want to be
around, but if somebody'sfeeding you and making sure that

(47:24):
, you know, not just physicallyfeeding you, but when you're
around them, you're pumped up,you're ready to go and you're
doing the things.

And you feel safe about being in a row, like,
hey, I'm thinking about doingthis.
Right, you don't do that, youcan't do that Okay, Right when
somebody else goes how are wegoing to do that?

How are we going to do that?
Where are we going to go?
How is it going to work?

I think you guys have brought that up in the
leadership call with theawareness right Of like there's
someone you need to have someoneahead of you or your peer and
someone behind you Absolutely.
And being like transformationalin that what you're talking
about friendships.
I was just talking to a friendabout that, because we all have
seasons, like with ourrelationships, but our French,

(48:07):
my friend, she was.
She's not necessarily in thebest space, right, she's like a
little lost.
We all been lost, I'm sure, butit's like when you're lost
you're really lost, you're in it.
You're talking about how lostyou are and I can't keep calling
you.
You keep lost, you're stilllost.
I gave you the map, I told youwhat road, what freeway to hop
on.
You still aren't lost in thewilderness.
So it's like some people you gotto leave them you know, in the

(48:31):
wilderness, because I keepcalling you, you find your way
back, lost.
So it's like we're in thetransformation of our friendship
.
No, I'm not going to give up onher, just like I wouldn't if
she was on my team on a regularbusiness or regular team.
But to speak to her level ofthat boundary even for myself,
well, I have to protect you.
Yeah, I have to protect me myself preservation.

You also have to have those difficult
conversations.

We have, of course , having those conversations,
but then also aiming to whereshe communicates Well, you need
positivity right now.

You don't need me to sit there talking to you
about being lost.

today you need positivity, right Of some
encouragement.
I can only give you that withmy capacity based off of
conversation being where we'reat in life right now.

Well, here's the thing.
You have those differentconversations, that you're going
to have those difficultconversations.
Hey, at the stage you are rightnow, is it more beneficial that
we are having constantconversation or is it more
beneficial that you go figure itout and come back?
And that's part of theconversation.

If I check in, I'm being positive, but that's
somebody I can visuallyunderstand from awareness that
is behind right.
I don't need to sit there andtalk to her.
There's other people that arepoor and poor and poor, and then
the influencers that actuallymean know.
I mean know who I can actuallygo talk to.

(50:00):
But it's so distinct and it'sharder too, because it can be a
long time friend and I feel likewe had this conversation with
my two of my longest friends ofhow to navigate through that
within relationships, becauseit's not like giving up on
people is a whole.
It hurts, it does hurt.

(50:20):
I can say that.

I mean from a leadership standpoint.
It's not that you're giving upon people or there's a
friendship or anything.
It's just acknowledging thatI'm moving forward and you're
not, because the only way to meespecially if it's a
relationship that has a level ofvalue you might not know
exactly where it is, dependingon where the relationship is

(50:43):
Because you're like you and thatspace I'm not there, I'm not
quite there, but creating thatsafe space of being able to say,
hey, when you get out of this,I am going to be right here for
you.
That's what's going to do withmy sons when they would go
through those things, like, okay, so you're here and I get it.
How about me when you ready forthe next thing?

(51:04):
So, when they were going totheir event mode and like, okay,
so we've been here for longenough, are we ready for
discussion?
Because I can only sit here inthis event mode with you for oh,
so long, because now you'restuck there and we can't get out
of it Now we're projecting.
When are we ready for that stage?
But, however, knowing thatthat's relationship, that's
important to me, I'm going tokeep feeding into like, okay, so

(51:27):
are we ready?
Are we ready?
Okay, call me later.
But if it's someone who andI've had these relationships,
I'm like I ain't fucking.

And those people.
Truly, I feel like they dobecome inspired and I do believe
that they are influenced byyour work ethic and I was just
saying this to my partner as faras my work ethic being the
catalyst for everything else inmy life, because that's
something I can control in a way, but it's something I can
manage in self, like I find thebest performance in as far as

(51:59):
working with people myself, andyou know my work, my passion.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, I'm just happy with the conversation
.

I feel like this is very productive.

Transformational.

Today.

All right.
So transformation requires thatyou are walking uphill instead
of climbing.
So what postures do younaturally do?
Talking, let's discuss uphillclimbing.
Thinking, let's contemplateuphill climbing planning, let's
strategize about uphill climbing.

(52:48):
Surveying, let's talk to, let'sask others what they think
about uphill climbing.
Studying, let's examine whatuphill climbing looks like.
And resting, let's conserve ourenergy before we start climbing
.
So if you are having thesedifficult conversations and
we're talking, we're not goingto stay where they are.

(53:10):
We're going to talk about howwe can move upward.
Thank you, right.
So here's some takeaways.
What are you doing to lead yourtransformation, not accept
simply training, right?
What are you avoiding doingbecause it's getting difficult?

(53:32):
What characteristics of atransformational leader do you
need to develop?
So those are three questionsthat you can take away from
today, and I just wanted to say,you know, thank y'all for
letting us do our littleexperiment on you guys.

Yeah, make sure you guys go hop on their
leadership mastermind and makesure to listen, learn and take
some notes, absolutely.

I'm a marketer.

That's what you do .
Ceo all day.

Gang gang, all right gang gang.

So when we do our true CEO leadership live
, it's not just about what ittakes to become a CEO.
It's also maintaining andlooking for opportunities to
grow personally, professionally,you know, financially.
That is that is the goal here.
It's not just, you know, it's aholistic growth process.

(54:29):
We're not just here just toshow up one day and be like all
right, I'm the CEO, now pay memy money.
You know my 50% in a companyand you probably not going to
make it.
You know, that 50% of revenuemeans that you ain't doing
something right.
A good growth trajectory as faras revenue touch the money.

(54:54):
So anywhere between 20 to 25%.
So just know that.
You know, if you got into itand you see, you know multi
million dollars coming into yourcompany and you're also not
making a difference in peopleand you think that you're
supposed to get half of thatthat you know it's probably not
going to happen.
You got some work to do.

So what the money comes the mind.
So we need the impact.

You need to become a transformational
leader, gotcha.
How do you become?
Those are the questions thatyou should be asking yourself.
How do I become atransformational leader?

The skill sets that I get to develop in me
allows me to be able to dobetter with other people.

How about, even though the deeper level of in
this conversation, I think, isaccepting that is the imposter
syndrome that comes with it,because that's?

a whole other conversation.

To me is a whole transformational lifestyle
.

You have to have a transformational lifestyle
yourself, to be atransformational leader, and
accepting that might be not aseasy for everyone.

Well, I think the place you start is
becoming a leader and learninghow to grow, how to grow as a
leader.
And growing as a leader is notjust, like I said, it's not a,
it's not positional Right, it'snot.
It has nothing to do with yourcareer.
It has to do with your passion,it has to do with your purpose,

(56:26):
it has to do with you, and ifyou can't look in the mirror at
yourself and you're going tohave a hard time being on the
mirror and holding other peopleaccountable.

The picture is so huge when you're talking
about leadership.
It's not just the job title andthe check that comes with it
and the oh.
I have 50 people underneath meand me poke my chest out.
What are you doing with thosepeople?
You know it's the same thingwith in sports, with coaching.
You know you have people.

Yeah, I'm the head coach.

Okay, have you developed any of these players
into being anything more thanjust a player?
Yeah, probably not.
You train them to win.
However, now they out there inthe world acting like fools.

Yeah, that's a reflection on you it is
.
That's a reflection on you.

People like to isolate that they're like well,
no at work.
You know that's not the onlytime that I have to deal with
that.
No, everything is connectedAbsolutely.

It's connected.

I think those two is funny that you guys said that
because, like I feel like mycoach that I had in high school,
coach Hill, he was a transferof a national leader.
He was not going to just sitthere and train us on the basics
.
He's going to show us the statsyou in the paint, you outside
the paint, what that looks like,your percentage, how this
reflects to you, the team,everyone else around you,

(57:39):
absolutely.
And this is calculated by theteam.
So whoever is leading, thatthere's still leadership within
each level.
So it was like frowned upon,though Well, he was doing.
Hmm, it was frowned upon, and Ican say for myself You're a
trained leader.

You know the sport.
Teach them the win.

Why are?

you still?

talking.
What is the story about?
Like I said, why am I hearingmultiple stories?
What is this, what is that,what is that?
But these are deeper thingsthat happen in life that I'm
teaching and transforming you tobecome not just a basketball
player, as the current example.

And not only that it's your
responsibility to train up theyouth.
But that's your responsibility,is it's a round to make sure
that you are a well roundedathlete and not just someone
walking around.
And, matter of fact, a wellrounded person and I think
that's the biggest thing is whatdid you get into this?

(58:37):
And I know you know, as you'regetting into your business, as
you're getting into your life,you are very One sided.
You're looking at this oneentity.
If I can only just do what Iwant to do, right, I don't want
to have to listen to people.
But not listening to peoplealso comes with some other
responsibility.
It comes with consequences.

(58:59):
We still have to make sure thatpeople are developing right.

So I don't know when it comes back to yourself
and being confident in that,because you're going to go
against the norm a little bit,absolutely, you're not going to
be a transformational personinspiring others to be
transformational themselves.

Because, as we all said, you're going to go
through that journey.
So you're not willing to gothrough it?
And how could you actually askanybody to go?

through it.
I just want to be real aboutthat part.

Yeah, if you're not willing to go change a
diaper you're not willing to.

you know, whatever the dirtiest job that
you have in your company, ifyou're not willing to do it,
then how can you ask otherpeople to do it?
How can you ask other people todo it when you're not willing
to?
And I think that's the bigthing about becoming a
transformer Anytime somebodyleaves, I am.
That is a personal thing.

(59:57):
What did I do and how can Imake sure that it doesn't happen
again?
What responsibility do I haveon each individual leaving?
Where can we improve thisprocess?
I'm not going to get it right100% of the time, but if I can
improve at least 10% on what Idid, then I did something to get

(01:00:21):
to the next step.

Acacia Smith (01:00:22):
That's that marketing proven process.
What is your proven process andhow do you teach that to others
?
Your business yourself?
Gotcha Leadership, oh okay.

Sonya Songer (01:00:37):
I'm out of here Sonya.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us today in our
discussion abouttransformational leadership.
Hey, LeVon, how can they findyou to get some transformational
leadership on accounting?

LaVonne Shields (01:00:54):
So you can find me across all platforms at the
accounting strategist.
So if it's, if you search itand that's where I am, that's
how you go, that's.
Instagram, facebook, linkedin.
All of the you can find methere on the website is the
accounting strategistcom Come onover.

How are you transforming people?

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes (01:01:17):
How can?

they find you to be transformed oh my goodness,
how can they find me?

I'm all over the place.
Let's see.
You got LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes atInstagram and Facebook.
You can find us under strategicunderscore behavior on
Instagram and Facebook.
Actually, strategic behaviorconsultants One of the things
that LaVonne and I do.

(01:01:43):
We have a true CEO leadershipmastermind or mentorship, I
should say where we have thesedeeper discussions with smaller
groups and on being able tochange your life and change your
purpose, or get a purpose forthat matter and we do that all.

Pick one up.

Get your life is what she's saying.

We hope you to get your life.
You know that happens onTuesdays and Fridays.
Hey, I like that actually.
So you can find us at true CEOpodcast, where we are looking at
both the leadership aspect ofthe true CEO process and then

(01:02:31):
also the accelerator program,where we help you go from
working in your business toworking on your business and get
into that seven figure mark.

Okay, yeah, Are you transforming people in
marketing?
How can they?
How can they find you for thattransformation?

They can find me and coaching with true CEO.
So our strategic behaviorconsulting, yeah, calm.
So WWW dot and make sure thatyou guys hop on there, because
you get exclusive access to usas marketers, with black
management for coaching,mentorship and then as well, if
you just want to find us andfollow and get your discovery

(01:03:10):
call to find out where you are,you can follow us at BLCK, dot,
mgmt or any and anything else.
What about you?

Sonya, you can find me for transforming the
human resources departmentwithin your organization at
bossy HR.
I have a website bossy HRcom.
Facebook, linkedin bossy HR.
You can find me under mygovernment name on Twitter.

Sonia Songer.

And on LinkedIn, I am only bossy HR, so Instagram.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, you're right.
Linkedin is bossy HR, and thenInstagram.

LinkedIn too.
No, not LinkedIn too, justInstagram.
If you find bossy HR onInstagram, that's still her too.
Yeah.

LaVonne Shields (01:04:07):
It will still be me.
Just ask why I have no content.

Exactly the content is actually on only
bossy HR, all right.

All right, thanks everybody, adios.

Hello.

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Episode 23 - Breaking Down Barriers: The Key to Transformational Leadership

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 23 - Breaking Down Barriers: The Key to Transformational Leadership