Pal-entines: besties getting justice (the disappearance of Danny Goldman & the murder of Daisy De La O)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Hi.
Welcome to True Creeps, wherethe stories are true and the creeps
are real.
We'll cover stories fromgrotesque gore to.
The possibly plausibleparanormal to horrifying history
to tense and terrible truecrime and.
Everything else that goes bumpin the night. We're your hosts, Amanda.
And I'm Lindsay, and we wantyou to join us while we creep.
We cover mature topics.Listener discretion is advised.

(00:29):
Hey, everybody. HappyValentine's Day.
This month is going by alreadyincredibly slow. Like January. Every
day has been, like, a monthitself. So, yeah, we've got here.
We've made it.
January was 80,000 years. So,you know. So we're celebrating Valentine's

(00:50):
Day, at least in part, bybringing you what we're calling some
Palantine's Day cases.
I love it. It makes me thinkof Leslie Knope, though.
Yes. And her Galentine's Day.We're using it to include everyone,
though, so Palentine's Dayinstead of Galentine's Day. And so
we're celebrating our love ofbesties. So the cases that we're

(01:11):
gonna talk about today aretrue crime cases where friends stepped
in to help get justice for oneof their friends who had been murdered.
I love it. We've made a pact,Lindsay and I, if one of us were
to get murdered, to help theother one solve our case already.
Yeah, yeah.
And we've talked about thatfor years. We can't say it out loud.
Yeah, no, yeah. Because if ourmurderer is listening, which they

(01:33):
could be. They could be. Thenthey would know to, like, wipe it
away.
Everyone listens to this show, right?
Yeah.
Including our husbands, definitely.
It's not like, I would say,minimum, once a week, Ben and I will
be talking about something,and he'll be like, did you know?
And, like, he'll bringsomething up. And I have the same
response every time. So heknows. He knows where I'm headed.
I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah.Where did you learn about that? Because

(01:56):
I know where you could learnabout that.
I literally did that to him 10minutes ago.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because hewas talking about the Avril Lavigne
conspiracy, and I was like,isn't that funny? You know, my voice
reaching a level that does notreach because I have a naturally
deep voice. But, you know.Perfect. Perfect.
But yes, yes. So we have acode. We recommend everyone tells

(02:19):
their friends whatever codethey want to make up to make this
easier.
Yeah, yeah. We're doing whatwe gotta. Because the police are
not.
No, they're not.
Sigh.
There's nothing preventinganything anymore. It's just chaos.
The world is chaos.
We've got both too many lawsand not enough laws at the same time.
And it's. I'm exhausted. We'reall exhausted.

(02:42):
Waking up to every executiveorder has made me go crazy.
Yeah. I'm like, this is too much.
Anyways, let's talk aboutsolving cases by our BFFs, right?
Love it.
So let's just get into it andtalk about our first case today.
And who we're going to talkabout is Daniel Jesse Goldman. And
on March 28th of 1966. So it'sbeen a little while. In Surfside,

(03:06):
Florida, a husky man with alimp broke into the Goldman family's
home around 4:30 in themorning. He came in through the sliding
glass door which had been leftunlocked. The family consisted of
Aaron and Sally Goldman andthen their son Danny. Danny was 17
at the time of the attack. Theman who broke in had a hat, but he
wasn't wearing a mask. Hereferred to Aaron and Sally by their

(03:29):
first names, which isterrifying. And tied them up with
a string from the blinds.Another way to think of how scary
those strings are. A lot ofblinds don't even have them anymore.
Oh, really?
Because they're literally justdeath traps. Yeah. Hmm. Most of ours
in our house, we don't havethem anymore. They're. They're deadly
in a number of different ways,especially for children and cats,
actually. Hmm. Have you notheard it with the cats? So PSA to

(03:51):
anyone. Blinds with strings.Children can hang themselves with
it. Cats can do the samebecause they jump up all silly and
get stuff stuck in them.
Oh my God. We only have. Theonly place where we have blinds is
in our basement bathroom. Andthey're always up. Cause the cats
sit up in the window up thereand it's like a high window. So like
you can't see anything that'shappening. And it's a very long cord

(04:13):
that's like not twisted oranything. It's simply just a long
string.
Interesting. When we had ourson, we were like, oh, yeah. Oh,
this is a terrible thing. Andthen as we were looking at, you know,
everything that can killeverything, it was like, cats get
stuck. And I was like, we'reawful people. We replaced everything
for the most part.
Very fair.
But anyways, terrifyingsomeone breaking into your house

(04:34):
at 4:30 in the morning andthen tying your parents up. So then
after he tied them up, theattacker then went and woke up Danny
and told him to get dressed.He dragged Danny out of his room
and put him to where hisParents were. He had a gun and he
was demanding that Aaron andsally give him $10,000. And in today's
money, that would be like$90,000. So no one has that much

(04:57):
cash on them ever. Right. Sojust like all of us, they didn't
have it. And they told theirattacker this because that's insane.
The attacker also, whilewaiting for that, went through Aaron's
wallet, thinking, I guess he'dfind $10,000. He said that he was
going to take Danny assecurity just to make sure that they
paid the money. But now hewanted 25,000 because they didn't

(05:18):
have the 10,000 on hand. He'slike, oh, well, now I'm taking your
son and you owe me more.
And I feel like all of thiswould very reasonably, like, lead
a parent to believe that thatperson was there for money. That
was the purpose of, like, whatthey were doing. And then while they
knew them by their first name,they're like, okay, they targeted
us, but they just want money.That's what they want here. That's
the goal. Right? Right.

(05:40):
The attacker told Aaron andSally that he was going to call that
evening at 6pm he threatenedto raise the ransom to $50,000 if
they did not comply with hisdemands. He also took Danny's car,
which was a white Nash Ramblersedan. So like Lindsay said, the
parents really thought all theperson wanted was money, which, I
mean, it sounds like that'sall he would want, right? It.

(06:02):
It does.
So the attacker leaves withDanny. The parents were able to untie
themselves a little whilelater, and they called the police
immediately. And then 6pm cameand went, and they never got a phone
call. My heart for them,that's horrific in so many ways.
I can't even imagine how thatwould feel because you already feel
very helpless and you're like,okay, he's just going to call. We'll
give him the money. It'll befine. And then your phone just doesn't

(06:25):
ring.
Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately,Aaron and Sally never saw Danny again.
Now, Danny's 18th birthday wasthe day after he had been kidnapped.
Like, imagine. Looking forwardto that. Yeah, it never coming. He
had planned to register at thelocal selective service.
So Danny's friend DavidGrobert told People magazine, we

(06:46):
thought he'd be back in two orthree days somehow with a crazy story
to tell, which obviously hedidn't come back. But it's like everybody
thought, oh, he's going to beback. He's going to come back. And
then David also said thatDanny loved working on TVs and radios.
And that he was a reallyfriendly and easygoing kid. And he
also liked to spend time withhis girlfriend, Sharon Lloyd. Now,
Danny's dad, Aaron, died in2010, and his mother, Sally, died

(07:10):
in 2012. And also in 2012, thecase was officially marked as administratively
closed. So they stoppedworking on it.
So sad.
Yeah. And so Danny's friendsworked together to find out what
happened to Danny. And theywere David Gerbart, who we mentioned
a moment ago, and his brotherJoe, which is his younger brother,
Anthony Blade, Harvey Lisker,and Paul Novak. And it's this group

(07:33):
of guys. Right. They're alladults at this point, well into their
adults. Right. Cause in 1966,they were around 18ish.
Yeah.
And so they referred tothemselves as the posse. And that's.
That's what we're going tocall them, too. They need some type
of name.
Yeah, I love that.
And they always wondered whathappened to Danny. But part of what
motivated them to reallyfigure this out was, was that after

(07:53):
Sally died, Joe got thispackage from Sally and he stopped
by Paul's house with thispackage. And Paul was an attorney
and at the time, the mayor ofSurfside, Florida. And in the package
was a letter from Sally askingthe world to not forget Danny. And
I can't even imagine what itwould feel like to read that, because
when you think of, like, whatis your legacy, it's who remembers

(08:15):
you more than anything else.And Danny was just a kid in a time
pre Internet, so we don't evenknow that much about him because
he was so young when he died.And then his parents died and he
didn't have a lot of otherfamily. So the posse interviewed
dozens of people. Theysearched archives and reviewed tens
of thousands of documents,some of which were from the FBI.

(08:38):
And when they were talkingabout their investigation, they were
like, we were so insistent anddemanding about things that we had
no right to be. He's like, weweren't family, but we were just
dead set on solving his case.
Good.
And so their tenacity paidoff. And some of the people who they
interviewed were people whowere interviewed by police the first
time around. And Paul said,basically our decision was that it

(08:59):
would be completely wrong forDanny to be forgotten. And he went
on to say Danny didn't havebrothers or sisters and his parents
were gone. We decided itwasn't going down like that.
These are good friends.
Yeah. So they spent nearly 10years working on Danny's case and
they eventually solved it. Andso we're going to talk about what
they found and how they did ita little bit. So the posse, along

(09:23):
with the miami dade policedepartment, Announced that Danny
was kidnapped by Georgedevice, a mobster, with the help
of a man named Joe chicken. Cachatory.
What a name.
And they believe that the pairtook Danny on a boat and then dumped
him in the atlantic ocean. Andso we're starting at our conclusion,
but we're going to get back towhere we're going. So Paul was the
one to be able to connectdevice to the crime, and he did so

(09:45):
by finding a piece of a rubberglove that had been left at the goldman
home by the kidnapper. So itwas, like, from what I understand,
it was the tail of the rubberglove. And so what they did was they
tracked the tip of it tofigure out who the manufacturer was.
And that was a manufacturer incanada. And the only place that was
selling that type of glovefrom that manufacturer Was a clinic

(10:07):
in Brooklyn, and that was aplace where device had been a patient.
They also worked to haveimages of fingerprints analyzed and
matched to see if it was amatch for defice. And so would this
match today's standards toconvict him? Probably not. But does
it certainly feel like it'senough to say, okay, he. This is
how it happened, and we'regoing to talk more about other circumstantial

(10:29):
evidence that really paints apicture of what happened and other
things that people say. So Ifeel like, is it a. A case that you
would try in court and itwould be completely foolproof? No.
But do I think that they cameto the correct conclusion? Yes.
Yes. And it's interesting thata group of friends Was able to put
this much time and effort intoit and actually solve it, Whereas

(10:52):
the case sat there for yearsand years. Mm. And nothing happened.
Yeah.
Isn't that interesting? Ittook the group of friends.
Yeah.
But anyways, we're gonna getto that, Right? So Danny's car was
found less than three blocksfrom cacciatore's apartment. They
also found that defice took ataxi to the Goldman family's home.
Stupid criminal.
Well, like you say, stupid. Isay, how sure are you that you aren't

(11:14):
gonna get caught?
Yeah.
That you're like, I'll take ataxi. I don't even need, like, a
getaway driver. I'll just hopa ride with a record, you know, like,
let someone see me get droppedoff there.
Yeah.
Wild.
It's a chad daball moment. Ora pizza box moment.
Yep.
Interviews with knownassociates of defice and cacciatores

(11:36):
said that Dani's body wastaken to Mall Lake Marina, which
is in North Miami Beach. Theythen took Danny's body onto a boat
that was owned by WallyJefferson, the Ponderosa. They then
dropped Danny, Dani'sdismembered body into the Haulover
Inlet to the Gulf Stream.Based on information in interviews,
they believe that Dani onlysurvived a day or two after he was

(11:59):
kidnapped.
Poor boy. Yeah.
Both Cacciatore and Deficehave since died.
Great.
Pissed that they got to live alife, though.
Yeah.
Another weird wrinkle in thisstory. Dani's girlfriend, we mentioned
Sharon Lloyd earlier. Right.She delivered bagels daily to the
investigators at the crimescene. She has refused to take a
polygraph. Reasonable withwhat we know today, but also interesting.

(12:23):
Right.
At the time, people were like,oh, a polygraph. Like, they thought
of a polygraph with.
That's gold.
A lot more differently. It wasgold. It was. It was truth. It was
something. So the idea thatshe's 17, 18, presumably around this
age, and she's like, no, Idon't need to take a polygraph. I
don't want to talk to youabout this.
Yeah.
Even though it's her boyfriendthat went missing.

(12:45):
Right. Right. Now, she latermarried Wally Jefferson, you know,
the person whose boat was usedto dump Dani's body. But sure. No
connection there.
Yeah, no connection at all.
She was even offered fullimmunity, but she declined a comment.
Wild.
Yeah. That tells me she waspart of it.
Oh, for sure. For sure.

(13:05):
That's the only way that I canthink of that a person might not
want to comment, even if givenfull immunity, is that they are a
villain in the story and theydo not want people to know what they
did. Right. Like, it's morethan getting arrested. It's the stigma
of being part of a murder.
Yeah. Yeah. So in 1986, whichwould have been 20 years after a
woman was talking aboutDanny's kidnapping at a bar. We keep

(13:27):
seeing that, too, where peopleare just like, let me tell you everything
at the bar. And then someoneoverhears. But anyways.
Yeah. I'm like, what anexhausting part of being a bartender
is like, having people confessto you. You're like, can you not?
I'm at work. I don't want tohold this.
Yeah, I don't want this.
Please take your baggage tosomeone else.
Right. Right. Now, the womansaid that she had been Danny's girlfriend

(13:49):
at the time. She explainedthat Danny was taken to another location
after being kidnapped, and herecognized one of the people who
had kidnapped him. They thenpanicked, and the kidnappers killed
Danny. So after hearing this,the bartender at the bar was like,
what the fuck is happening?Stepped away, called police, but
by the time they came, theperson was gone. Now, Sharon says

(14:12):
that this was not herSuspicious. Suspicious, but how would
anyone know? You know, like,yeah, so weird. And Also, in the
80s, there wasn't as manysecurity cameras as there are today.
So it's a different world.
It's also so suspicious that,like, other people end up telling
a similar story.
Right, right.
And why would somebody saythey were their girlfriend, you know,

(14:33):
why would you.
Be fudgeing talking about it,you idiot?
Yeah, I mean, I'm assumingthey were inebriated and feeling
guilty, but who am I?
Yeah, but still. Still. So inthe weeks leading up to the break
in, Aaron had talked tofederal authorities about some shady
loans and possible illegalactivities at the local bank. And
remember, Aaron is Danny'sfather. Aaron was a board member

(14:55):
there. Aaron likely didn'tknow that Jimmy Hoffa and Santo Trafficante,
both mobsters, were using thebank to launder money. The federal
grand jury was presentedevidence just four days before Danny's
abduction. Suspicious.
Mm.
In their efforts to solveDani's disappearance, the posse also
reviewed other cold cases frombefore and after Danny was taken.

(15:19):
The posse found that therewere links between device and the
people who were in control ofthe kidnapping case. The chief of
detectives and acting head ofintelligence at the sheriff's office.
So some big names.
Uh huh. Connecting very big,important people who are connected
to a mobster.
They were then arrested andcharged, but ultimately went free

(15:41):
because the indictmentsagainst them were shoddy, which of
course they fucking went free.
Right.
Now it's believed that theindictments were purposefully, poorly
written to sabotage the casesagainst them because of all the corruption.
Right. Like, everyone is ineveryone's pockets.
Yeah.
Both Defice and Cacciatorewere also involved with the Trafficante

(16:02):
organization. Cacciatore wasTrafficante's cousin, and Defice
had been part of numerouscriminal activities with the organization.
For example, selling cocaine,counterfeiting money, burglaries,
and a murder of a retiredpolice official.
This feels like a wide arrayof criminal activities. Right. We've

(16:23):
got drug dealing, we've gotcounterfeit money. We've got breaking
and entering into people'shomes and stealing things. We've
got murder. This is a lot ofdifferent stuff.
Yeah, it's a lot. It's sadthat it just went years and years
with nothing until friendswere like. Like, hey, this is wrong.
Yeah.
So defice was also aninformant, so he was able to avoid

(16:44):
prison time.
So like you match him being aninformant. So that means that the
people who aren't corrupt arelike, okay, we want him to be able
to like spill secrets, butthen the rest of the system's corrupt
and they're like, we want himto continue to do illegal activities
for us so he's not going tojail. So even if there had been the

(17:04):
world's easiest evidence totie him to it, I don't think he ever
would have been arrested,which is just so disgusting.
It is, it is. So as a note, wetalked about that press conference
earlier. The case was closedin December of 2021. So just a couple
years ago.
Yeah.
That would have made it a 55year old case.
Wild. Wild. But I doappreciate their dedication.

(17:28):
Yes, yes. Just that they allwork together to figure it out when
no one else could or would. Iguess not even could. Just wouldn't.
Yeah, yeah. Well. And I, Ilove that they got together and did
this, but it sucks that theyhad to be like a boots on the ground.
We'll do it. And from ourunderstanding, when they were reviewing
again, they did receiveassistance from law enforcement.

(17:50):
And law enforcement was like,oh, yeah, maybe we could look at
this again. Right. Especiallyonce they were seeing the scope of
it. But I can't help butwonder that a part of that had to
be them, like, trying to saveface a bit.
Oh, for sure.
Because it looks bad if you'relike, hey, not only were we corrupt,
but like, we were. We alsothen continued to be incompetent

(18:10):
once that corruption waspresumably weeded out.
Yeah. And I know that theycould blame technology too.
Yeah.
The 80s and the 60s are wildly different.
Yeah.
Especially even from today,but still, they could have done more,
but they chose not to.
Someone took a taxi there.
Yeah.
Come on now. So I'm glad themurderers are dead.

(18:30):
Yeah.
And I'm glad that there's ananswer to what happened to Danny.
Right, right. It's sad thathis parents never got to know what
happened though.
I know, I know.
But I mean, for how horrificand gruesome it was. I don't know
if. I don't know, like, notknowing and knowing the details are
both torture in a different way.
I'm sure. I'm sure, like, Idon't have children, but I would
imagine that, like, if youlose a kid, you are simply not the

(18:53):
same. Especially if you lose achild in a way that is a question
mark. It's like, I need to bePushing. I need to be trying. I need
to be looking versus beinglike I lost them. I think both are
horrific. I just think that,like, they require different things
from the person who has thatloss, and that's just fucking hard.
Yeah. And I'm sure, too, thatthe kidnappers called them by name,

(19:15):
so. So that probably was goingthrough their brain for years and
years and years. Like, how didthis person know by our name? How
are we connected? Which way?But horrific all around.
Yeah. And, I mean, I also. Iwould imagine it would be a little
bit of a. Like, a blessing forthem to not know that it was likely
Aaron's testimony that gottheir son killed. It's not his fault.

(19:38):
He did not do anything wrong.He was trying to do the right thing.
Right.
But that. That was theconsequence of it. I think that would
be such an incredibly heavyweight to bear.
That's true.
So we're going to move on toour next case, and this is the murder
of Daisy dlo. And we're goingto get into all the details, but
both Daisy's best friend andDaisy's mom, Susannah, her cousin,

(19:58):
worked to help get Daisy'smurderer brought to justice. And
I also, like. So when we thinkof, like, best friends, have you
seen the little memes thatare, like, cousins are your first
best friends? It just made methink of that because I feel like
cousin bonds can be justlovely. Gorgeous.
Yeah. You're not around themas much as a sibling, so you like
them a little bit more.They're not as annoying.
Yeah. I mean, like, you know,you know. So Rebecca Fuentes met

(20:21):
her best friend, Daisy De Laoh, in school when they were both
high school freshmen inCalifornia. Sadly, Daisy was murdered
just a few years later in thelate evening slash early morning
of February 22nd or 23rd of2021. She was just 19. So Daisy was
found rolled up in a rug thathad been placed next to a dumpster.
And this was at the apartmentcomplex where she lived with her

(20:42):
family in Compton. Theproperty manager for the complex,
Jose Tellez, he found her whenhe was coming to prep the dumpsters
for pickup. So he was movingthings, and that's when he saw Daisy.
When she was found, she waspositioned face down. I don't know
if the rug was upright andthen it moved or if it was kind of
like laying on the ground.
Right.
So but I'm assuming that it,like, was laying on the ground and

(21:03):
it kind of unrolled a bit, butshe was face down and she had her
hood pulled up over her Head,but her. The front of her hoodie
and the back of her hoodiewere also pulled up. So, like both
her chest and her back wereshowing. And then her pants had been
pulled down past her thighs,so her buttocks was out as well.
There was a large blood stainunder her head and there was a steak

(21:25):
knife next to her.
Horrific.
Horrific. The medical examinerconcluded that Daisy's fatal wound
was a 5 inch slice across herneck that went from left to right
that cut her carotid artery.And they said that it was about an
inch deep, which I feel likethat's a lot of force.
That is a lot of force.Especially if it was that fucking

(21:45):
steak knife too.
Yeah. I feel like you seepeople slitting throats in movies,
but, like, the idea of that Ithink is just very horrific and,
like, very terrifying and awful.
Yeah.
There was sharp force injuriesto the side of her head and her neck.
There were bruises all overher arms. And then there were 58,
like five. Eight shallow stabwounds that were about an inch deep

(22:09):
and they were all over her head.
This person was a monster.
Yeah. Like fucking awful. Soseveral months went by with sparse
media coverage and no updatesto Daisy's family or friends about
the police's investigation. Sothere was a couple of articles that
came out, and one was from theLA Times, and it identified her as

(22:30):
a Latina Jane Doe. And then inthat same article, they said that
they talked to the propertymanager and that he's. He talked
about how her body was foundand that there was a steak knife
next to her with no blood. Andit went on to say that that tell
us had lived at the apartmentcomplex for 20 years and he knew
everybody there. And he didnot think that the person who he
saw was somebody who had livedin the apartment building because

(22:52):
he was like, even though Icouldn't see their face, I could
see like, their clothing andlike their general body shape and
structure. He's like, I wouldhave recognized them, which is very
strange because he did know Daisy.
Yeah.
Like, he had seen her numeroustimes. So it's very bizarre that
he was like, no, I. I didn'trecognize her. I find that strange.
That is strange. But also, Ithink we've said it before, like,

(23:15):
sometimes when you seesomething so gruesome, you're like,
that's not real. Like, that'sa mannequin. Like, that's not real.
That can't be someone thatI've known well also.
Right. Like she had lived.They've lived there for a few years
from my Understanding. And ifhe lived there, too, that means he
watched her grow up.
Right.
So, like, in my head, like, Iwould never in a million years see
a dead body and be able to,like, immediately recognize that

(23:36):
that's a child I know from myneighborhood. I think my brain would
just be like, absolutely not.But I think that this kind of changed
the trajectory of theinvestigation at first, and we'll
get more into that in asecond. But there was also a short
news report from KTLA Newsthat said police did not have a suspect
and had not yet viewedsecurity footage. So just like, that's
what you fucking do immediately.

(23:57):
Yeah. They're like, weactually haven't done anything yet,
but.
Exactly, exactly.
So Daisy's family and friendsfelt like the police were investigating
this, like it was a randommurder, not necessarily a targeted
attack against Daisy. On May26th of 2021, Rebecca posted a short
video to TikTok asking peopleto help find her best friend's murderer,

(24:17):
which was a man named VictorSosa. And we're going to go into
more details why they believedit was him in a moment. Around that
same time, Daisy's mom'scousin Naomi, or Mimi Garcia, made
an Instagram page titledjustice for Daisy. And on the Instagram
page, they were also sayingthat they were looking for help to
find Sosa. So the same person,the video and the Instagram page

(24:39):
will be linked in our shownotes if you want to take a look.
And Mimi and Rebecca both gotlots of responses of where Sosa could
be. They would then send whatlooked like credible tips to the
lead detective, who wasDetective Ray Lugo. Daisy's friends
and family were very sure thatVictor murdered her. Daisy's mom,
Susanna Salas, said that shewas amazing at picking friends. But

(25:02):
just like everyone else, shedid date a loser.
I feel like everybody has tohave dated at least one loser. It's
kind of like how you learn thecriteria you learn. But I was just
like, I love that she waslike, she picked bad here, but she
had such amazing friends.Right, Right.
Susannah said that she used towork evening shifts at the CVS in
Huntington Park. She also saidthat Daisy had dreamed of becoming

(25:24):
a tattoo and makeup artistwith her own shop. I love that dream.
Yeah.
She was taking businessadministration courses at a local
college, so she was reallytrying to make that dream come true.
Yeah. Daisy met Sosa on anonline dating app when she was just
15 years old and he was 21.
I did not even know teenagerscould get on dating apps, and I find

(25:45):
that utterly Horrifying. Like,I don't know whether she said she
was the age that she was ornot, but just the premise of a teenager
on a dating app I find gross.When I was reading, I went, oh, no.
Yeah. I didn't even thinkabout, like, that extra wrinkle for
teenagers in the last, youknow, decade or so. Like, I was like,
oh, God, yeah.
Having a teenager now seemsjust terrifying. Like, I'm not looking

(26:08):
forward to it.
Yes, yes.
But I mean, think about it.Like, back in the day when, like,
chat rooms became a thing, howmany times did you ever go in one
and you're like, yep, 18.Check. Okay, let's go see what's
going on.
Oh, yeah. I was like, I'mthis. And I just love that the Internet
is like, promise. And you'relike, I promise.
I mean, if you can identifywhich pictures have a bike in it,

(26:31):
you could do anything.Unfortunately, it's very easy for
underage kids to be adults online.
Yeah. Yeah.
So Daisy wasn't honest withher mom about Sosa's age at first,
but Susanna recalled thinking,oh, shit, when she saw he had tattoos.
Fair.
Because typically that does atleast mean over 18. Yeah. Unless
you're in Arizona and theytattoo children now for whatever
fucking reason. Have you notseen that article? No, but we went

(26:55):
on a little bit of a rant.That'll be at the end of the episode.
But anyways, the person shewas dating had tattoos, which alerted
mom, as it should. So after afew months, they started dating.
Susannah noticed that Daisyhad scratches, bites and bruises
and asked Daisy about it, butDaisy said it was nothing. But it
definitely wasn't nothing.Daisy's brother Nathan said Sosa

(27:16):
started strangling Daisy andhe had to get him off of her. Horrible.
Like, horrible way to see yoursister too, right?
Yeah.
And then in another instance,Nathan and Daisy had bunk beds, right?
And so Nathan was on thebottom bunk while Daisy and Sosa
were on the top bunk, whichstill weird.
Like, I can't picture that an older.
Person going into a bunk bedwith their date.

(27:39):
Okay, yeah. Like, I'mpresuming they're just like, hanging
out up there, but I'm like, Ican't picture adult sized people
in a bunk bed on top. Like,I'm like, no, absolutely not.
No, no. But anyway, so the twoof them started arguing and then
Sosa attacked Daisy, like,knowing that Nathan's just chilling
underneath him. And then inanother instance, Nathan saw Sosa

(28:03):
hit Daisy over the head with askateboard so hard that Daisy started
Bleeding, which. Like, whatthe actual fuck are you doing? Yeah,
you're hitting someone with afucking skateboard in front of fucking
people.
This guy.
Horrible. After doing this,Sosa and Daisy both ran off. And
when Daisy came home, Susannahad to convince her to go to the
hospital to get stitches. Andwhile at the hospital, she tried

(28:25):
to file a police report. AndSusannah said that they told her
they would need Daisy toaccuse Sosa herself, which I can
attest. They. They do that, atleast in Arizona.
Well, and especially becauseshe's a minor, too. She's like, I'm
her parent. And they're like.But we have nothing to investigate
if she doesn't say that this happened.
No. Even if you're over 18.
Yeah.
Anyways, so kind of likeLindsay said, Susanna did try. She

(28:47):
tried to file a police reportat the Los Angeles County Sheriff's
Department and the HuntingtonPark Police Department, which would
have been the area that Daisywent to school. And she was told
by both that she couldn't makethat report. So representatives from
both said that there is a grayarea when it comes to reporting domestic
violence for minors. Also, perCalifornia law, whether there's a
domestic violence incidentfiled for a minor is confidential.

(29:10):
So it's unclear if they did itor not, because no one can actually
look into that. Yeah, but, Imean, telling the parent, we can't
do it seems like they didn't.
Agreed. Agreed. I also feellike if there had been a domestic
violence, something on thebooks, hopefully they would have
looked at him a little quicker.
Right. At least, like, lookedinto something.

(29:32):
Next, Susanna went to Daisy'sschool. She was like, okay, maybe
I can get him banned from thecampus. So the school administration,
they asked Nathan to explainto them what they'd seen, like, what
they'd seen him do to Daisy.And so he tells them everything that
we mentioned earlier. And thenwhen they asked Daisy, she was like,
no, nothing happened. And theywere like, well, this is what your

(29:54):
brother said. Is he lying? Andshe basically kind of, like, pauses,
and she's like, my brother isnot a liar. He's just trying to protect
me. And, like, she agrees.She's like, yeah, this did happen.
Like, this is what happened.But it takes her being. Like, she
would have to say herbrother's a liar in order to, like,
maintain that lie. And I thinkthat that's just an interesting breaking
point for her, where she'slike, no. So Susanna also banned

(30:17):
Sosa from coming to theirapartment, but that didn't stop Daisy
from seeing him. She justdidn't Bring him up to the apartment.
Daisy and Sosa were kind of onand off again, but mostly on up until
the. About a month before shedied. And so Susanna and Daisy were
in the car, and Daisy, verycasually, is like, yeah, I broke
up with what's his face. AndSusanna's, like, trying to play it

(30:38):
cool. And by the way, Daisydoesn't even say Sosa's name to her
mom because she knows her momhates him.
Yeah.
So she's like, I broke up withwhat's his face. And Susanna, like,
recalls. She's like, I wastrying to play it cool because I
didn't want to make a big,like, hell, yeah kind of thing. She's
like, you know how teenagersare, right? And then because she
was 19, they'd broken up andgotten back together a few times.
So she was like, they couldstill get back together. I don't

(30:58):
want to say something in,like, us get into an argument, you
know?
Yeah.
Susanna said that she alsothought that their breakup was one
of the reasons that hemurdered Daisy.
Probably.
So on February 22nd, Daisy gota text from Sosa while she was watching
TV with her mom and hergrandmother. Susanna had seen her
phone, and she saw who hadtexted Daisy, and she was unhappy.

(31:21):
And she kind of, like, makes a face.
Yeah.
The text said, I've gotsomething for you. And so Daisy sees
her mom make the face, andshe's like, it'll be fine. I won't
be long. I'll be right back.Walks out. The next morning, Susanna
goes into Daisy's room. She'snot in her bed. And she's like, she
must have sent the night atSosa's. Like, she just assumes she's
there.

(31:41):
Yeah.
But then later that morning,she receives a call from the LA County
Sheriff's Department, and theyask her if she knows where Daisy
is. And then when she's like,oh. Like, you know, she's like, no,
she wasn't home this morning.I think she's with Sosa. They're
like, okay, we're actuallytrying to get in touch with him.
And she's like, that's when Iknew he had done something to her.
So Susanna was at work, andshe had a friend come and get her

(32:04):
and take her home. And whenshe got to the apartment complex,
she saw that it was allcordoned off with yellow tape. And
she starts screaming, where'smy baby? Where's my baby? Over and
over again. And no one'sresponding to her. And she's screaming
and she's begging for anAnswer. And then she turns and she
sees a body bag. And she saidthat she just collapsed and started,
like, screaming, which, like,I mean, like, how do you. I would.

(32:26):
I would imagine it is justlike a visceral react. Reaction to,
like, they didn't tell her onthe phone.
Right.
They. They could have told herwhat was going on rather than making
her come to the crime scene.Nobody made her come home, to my
understanding.
But they knew she lived there.
Yeah. Like, she was going tocome home at some point. And that
is not how she should havefound out about her daughter. And

(32:46):
that just hurts my heart so much.
Absolutely not. They shouldhave asked where she was and sent
someone.
Exactly, exactly. Or at thebare minimum, when they.
Were on the phone, didsomething, anything else than this.
Because that's the worst.
Literally, like most other.Any single way of notifying her other
than making her stumble uponit, seeing the body bag. Yeah, yeah.

(33:08):
Like, that being the way youfind out is unacceptable in every
way.
Exactly.
Rebecca said that she thoughtthat Daisy didn't tell her friends
about the abuse because shethought that they would push her
to break up with him. Which,like, is accurate, I'm sure.
Yeah.
She added, quote, I personallythink that she knew that if she tried
to walk away, he wouldphysically hurt her. She just never

(33:29):
thought it would get to thispoint. That's true for a lot of them.
Yeah.
And unfortunately, like, we'vetalked about a lot of cases similar
to this with women. Right. Mm.It's horrific.
You don't want to think thatthe person who you love can do something
like this. Reasonable menshould not be killing women or other
men.
I don't think it's too much to ask.
Yeah. But bare minimum, don'tkill your romantic partners, whether

(33:52):
they are your current or former.
Exactly. Another friend ofDaisy's, Jasmine Garcia, said that
Daisy was the type of personwho wouldn't cut off ties with someone
who was struggling. And alsoshe thought that that's why Daisy
went outside after Sosa'stext. So, like, she thought he was
struggling and that she stillneeded to be like a friend to him.
Right. Yeah. She didn't hate him.

(34:13):
So the longer it went withoutthere being any news on police investigating
her case, the more angry herfriends and family became. Which,
like, fucking reasonable.You're like, this fcker killed her.
What the fuck are you doing?
It's also like, it feelspretty fucking like one plus one
equals two kind of shit, right?
Yes.
Hey, we have a person who'sviolent towards her. She broke up

(34:35):
with him. She's found murderedviolently. Who could it be there?
No, it shouldn't be a fucking question.
Well, that. And when theycalled her mom and they're like,
we're actually looking forhim, they fucking knew. And they're
just like, mm, too hard.
Mm.
So her friend Jasmine said,quote, this is where abolish the
police comes in. Everyone'stalking about, oh, you need the police.

(34:58):
They prevent crime. No, youfucking don't. They always come in
when it's too late. They don'tprotect shit. Then they always blame
the girl, the girl who wentout, the girl who cared too much.
The girl who was so naive.
I have never seen someone sumit up so fucking perfectly as that
is that they do not protect. Ihate it.

(35:20):
Me too. When discussing thedelay, police say that they weren't
positive that it was Sosa andthat they were working on over 10
other cases at the same time.That sucks. If there's 10 murders,
what are we doing to prevent10 murders?
You know, like, yeah, you areworking for 10 murders. Heard, hey,
maybe you could go ahead and,like, do this one, because it feels

(35:41):
like it's not as hard as arandom murder where you don't know
who did it. You literally havedocumentation showing that someone
has come in. You could havehad documentation to show.
Right.
What was going on. And at thevery least, it's with her school.
They documented it there so,like, they could go get a record
from somewhere if they needed to.

(36:03):
Yeah. And the fact thatthey're like, oh, well, we're not
positive. Well, then bepositive. Like, do some interviews,
figure it out.
Yeah.
Rule him out. At least dosomething. Mm. So they also stress
that solving a murder takestime, which, like, fucking obviously,
but, you know, if you know whoit is, it shouldn't really take all
that long.
Yeah.
Running DNA evidence andobtaining arrest warrants all take
time. That's warranted. Butalso do something.

(36:26):
I also just feel like whenthere's cases of, like, affluent
white women, there's hustle.There is hustle in it. And, like,
there are activists who talkabout LA county specifically and
how it seems like people ofcolor who are in lower income areas
tend to have crimes solved ata. Like, a slower pace. Right. And

(36:47):
that it's not just when it's apossible random person, it's even
when it seems pretty cut anddry as to what happened. It's just
taking less time.
In addition to all of this.Right. They have no fucking clue.
So they later said that itwasn't immediately clear that in
the video footage, that theyfound of a person dragging the carpet
with Daisy rolled up in.
It was Sosa. And we're goingto talk about it in a moment. Like

(37:09):
the different people who spokeat his trial, but they're fucking
lying. Like, they eitherdidn't talk to anyone or they're
lying. Like those are theoptions. Right. And either way, like,
being like, oh, we weren'tsure if it was him, as you said,
get sure, get positive about it.
Well, get positive, but alsoyou have breadcrumbs. Right. Like

(37:29):
he had just texted her, couldyou. It wasn't all that long ago.
Ping his phone. Was he outthere? Did she leave with him? If
she did, where did they go? Ifthey didn't leave, where did they
go?
Yeah, this isn't like a 30year old case, right? This is 2000s.
Yes, yes. There's a lot oftechnology available to track where
people were.

(37:51):
So let's talk about the DNAevidence. You know, the one that
takes just so, so long to doanything with. And something that
I should point out is becauseof how her body was found, authorities
did take one of the sexualassault DNA kits. So specifically
what they did do is swabs weretaken to see if there was DNA on
her hips, genital area andpubic area, along with pants, clothing,

(38:13):
hair, mouth and neck. She hada tampon in as well. So they used
the tampon to look for DNArather than swabbing her vagina.
Samples were also taken fromthe knife. A set of keys, a yellow
and blue beanie, and ofcourse, the blood stains. So they
took all of these DNA swaps.
Right.
Let's talk about the results.There were results from Daisy, of

(38:34):
course, Sosa, obviously. Andthen an unknown contributor. There
was DNA from the unknowncontributor at the top of the rug.
The large bloodstain had DNAfrom both Daisy and Sosa. Sosa's
DNA was on the blade of theknife. Daisy, Sosa and the unknown
person, all three DNA wasfound on the knife handle, Daisy's

(38:55):
key ring and keys. There'salso bloodstains found on walls.
One had Daisy's DNA and theother had Sosa's. An anal swab and
a swab of her genitalia hadSosa's DNA. And then the people who
had analyzed it said thatsperm could stay on the body for
several days, which was interesting.
Yeah, they were like,depending on the person's hygiene.

(39:16):
And I'm like, fascinating.
Yeah. In late June, the LACounty Sheriff's Office released
a bulletin with Sosa's name onit. Surprise Surprise. And it said
that he was wanted for murder.This is also when news coverage started
having Daisy's name in it.
Too wild.
Which is really Sad.
Yeah.
On July 1st, Mimi calledSusannah, who was driving at the
time. Susanna pulled over, andMimi sent her photos to see if it

(39:39):
was Sosa. In the photo, Sosahad bleached hair and was out drinking
at a bar called Papas and Beerin Rosarito, Mexico. So how they
found this? Mimi received avideo from someone who said that
they worked with a man wholooked like Sosa. And so this was
on Instagram. And onInstagram, you can send a photo or
video so it stays in a chat,or you can make it where it disappears

(40:02):
after you watch it. And thevideo was set to disappear. So luckily,
Mimi was smart and she tookscreenshots as she watched this video.
Yeah.
Mimi then sent thisinformation to Detective Lugo. And
interestingly, Detective Lugorefuses ever having seen these screenshots.
Ew.
I would be furious.

(40:23):
Yes. Yes.
He said that the informationhe learned about Sosa's location
was from Mexican lawenforcement and that he informed
Susanna about where Sosa was.But then how the fuck would she have
these screenshots?
Yeah, well, and it's like,when he was talking, he's like, it
was actually the other wayaround. And I'm like, why are you
being shitty?
Who the cares? Yeah, just. Wefound the dude, you know?

(40:44):
Yeah. It's like his ego, itfelt like.
Yeah, yeah. Well, he's. He'sso Busy working on 10 other cases.
So Lugo told the LA Times thatthe person who tipped off law enforcement
had recognized Sosa's photofrom social media. So as much as,
like, everyone deems socialmedia to be evil, or TikTok, as her
friend used to be evil. Like,there are good uses.

(41:07):
Yeah.
When the algorithms aren'tbeing manipulated.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Whenit's also like he's like, oh, social
media didn't solve this. Idid. But you couldn't have without
it if social media wasn'tthere. So even if you're saying that
the tip didn't come to. ToMimi, then to Susanna, you are still
saying that the reason that hewas found was because people on social

(41:28):
media were pushing for him tobe found.
Yeah. And so when you do seesomething come across your feed,
even if it doesn't meananything to you, where you're like,
I wasn't there, or I don'tknow that person, someone you know
may know someone who knows. Soit is worth sharing or commenting
or whatever. To, like, boostit up because the right person might
see it.
And one of the otherinteresting things that we saw when

(41:49):
we were researching was thatthere were activists that talked
about how in murder cases,specifically in areas that are closer
to Mexico, if they think thatthe suspect has fled to Mexico, they
will not necessarily, like, goas fast in their investigation or
push as hard because they'relike, oh, they left. And so, like,
if it's somebody who left thecountry paired with a family who

(42:13):
doesn't have the resources to,like, keep something in the media,
then they kind of pause. Andbecause of social media, you can
now keep something in themedia for free. Right. Like, you
don't have to have, like, afamily representative because, like,
some families hire an attorneywho can give press conferences and
be, like, really vocal, butyou don't have to even do that anymore.
You can do that yourself onsocial media. So it's interesting

(42:36):
how, like, that's now a waythat families can push for relatively
free. Right?
Yeah. Yeah.
So, gorgeously, Sosa wasarrested at that same bar that we
mentioned earlier. Papas andbeer. On July 2, Rebecca posted a
video giving an update thatSosa had been arrested, and she asked
her people to come out to thecourthouse and hold signs with her
and her friends so that theycould help try to get a harsher sentence

(42:59):
for Sosa. So let's talk alittle bit about the trial itself.
So, first off, he was chargedwith first degree murder. He pled
not guilty. Get. During thetrial, there were several witnesses
who either placed Sosa at thescene or described suspicious behavior
from him afterwards. Daisy'sgrandfather Juan, testified that
10 minutes before Daisy leftthe apartment to meet Sosa, he saw

(43:21):
a person who was wearing amask and a beanie that were both
red, black, and white peeringthrough their apartment window. Later,
he was in his room with thewindow open, and he could hear Daisy
talking to a man. But hecouldn't really make out what they
were saying. It was just kindof like he could hear the, like,
the muffled voices.
He recognized the voice. Yeah.
He's, like, trying to go tobed. So he closes the window. And
my heart hurts because, like,that has to be said to be like, oh,

(43:42):
I heard her. It's obviouslynot his fault.
But, like, well, that wasprobably a common thing, right?
Oh, yeah.
Daisy talking to someoneoutside. Or if he visited before,
he was like, this happened athousand times. Why would this one
be any different?
And he could also be trying togive her her privacy.
Yeah.
But, like, my heart just hurtsbecause I feel Like, I would be like,
oh, no. Even though obviouslyno fault in him. But the property

(44:03):
manager that we mentionedearlier to Les also testified, he
said that the rug that Daisyhad been rolled up in was previously
leaning against one of theother apartment buildings. He said
that he had previously seenSosa and Daisy hugging and kissing
before around the complex, butalso that he had specifically seen
the two of them hanging out inthe alley where her body was found.
Where.

(44:24):
Damning. And then there wasJeffrey Tinoco, who was just 14 when
he testified, and he lived inthe complex, and he had seen Sosa
with Daisy many times because,again, they weren't allowed in the
apartment. So they're kind ofjust hanging out outside, Right?
Yeah.
And he said that on the nightof the murder, he walked by Daisy
and Sosa. And so what hedescribes is he's walking. He's five

(44:44):
feet away from them. Daisy islaying on the ground. He said it
looked like she was sleeping.Sosa is pacing back and forth with
his head down, doesn't evennotice Jeffrey. So he went up to
his apartment, and then alittle while later, he heard dragging
sounds for about 10 seconds.And so he didn't have to come forward.
Right. Like, he very bravelytestified when he did not have to.

(45:06):
And so, sadly, Jeffrey died inDecember of 2023. Completely unrelated.
His aunt's GoFundMe page forhim said that he died from, quote,
street violence. And there'svery, very little we could find on
his death, which is just sosad because he was, you know, a young
guy, like, when he passed. Andso we hope his family gets justice
for him as well, becausethat's heartbreaking.
Well, and being 14, beingbrave enough to go up to a courtroom

(45:30):
and say what you saw.
Yeah. Like that.
A lot of adults can't even dothat. So, 14, that's commendable.
Again, I would also imagine itwould be hard to, like, replay what
you had saw in your head,because 14, you're a kid, you might
be like an adult. You'regenerally a kid. He saw her laying
there. He probably thoughtthat she, you know, he didn't know
what was going on. Right. ButI can imagine being like, oh, God,

(45:51):
what did I see? Yeah.
Later on.
Yeah.
That poor boy.
So the last witness we'regoing to talk about is Claudia Gutierrez,
which is Sosa's mother, andshe testified against him. So she
said that at the time ofDaisy's death, Sosa didn't come home
that night or the next day. Soshe's like, that's weird. She calls

(46:12):
him. She doesn't hear from, soshe files a missing persons report.
Two weeks later, Sosa callsClaudia to meet. And they met on
the street, which isinteresting. So that he didn't come
to her house. He can't. He,like, met her out somewhere.
Yeah.
And she said she asked him ifhe killed Daisy, and he just kind
of, like, bowed his head. Andwhat Claudia said to him was, do

(46:33):
the right thing and turnyourself in. And so he asked her
for money and for some stuffthat was his, that was in their home.
And so she gives him $500, buthe never comes home again. And again,
like, I'm just so glad thatshe testified against him because,
like, that would be hard.
Yeah.
I would also imagine if youare the parent of someone who could
do something like that, you'relike, I made this thing a certain

(46:54):
amount of, like,responsibility. You might feel, obviously,
you're. No one's responsiblefor the murder of another person
that somebody else does is,like, a whole ass person. But, like,
I could imagine the guilt thatmight be associated with that.
Yeah.
And she said she'd only evenmet Daisy just a few times. Like,
she hadn't seen her, like, aton, didn't know her very well.
No, she definitely did theright thing. Because we've seen in
the news in the last coupleyears where parents did not do the

(47:16):
right thing.
Yeah. People are like, well,this is my kid. And it's like, your.
If your kid did that, youshould not want them out and about.
Right. And the fact that theother family suffers from your lies,
too.
So Sosa was convicted andsentenced to 25 years to life in
prison.
I don't think that's enough.
I don't think it's enougheither. So we see in a lot of cases

(47:37):
that once convicted, there isan appeal. And I. I don't think I've
ever been so enraged by anappeal as I was with this one. And
so basically, his appealargument was that the term sexual
assault kit, when used attrial, was prejudicial and that they
should have used the termphysical assault kit because the

(47:58):
evidence from it did not showthat she was sexually assaulted.
Right. It showed that hissperm was on her.
Yeah.
But it wasn't conclusive as towhether, like, whether there was
a sexual assault or thatwhether she willingly had sex with
him sometime recently,because, again, they were on and
off. Again. He also was notcharged with sexual assault. That
wasn't part of the case. Itwas more of like, this is just a

(48:19):
standard thing that we do whenwe find a person that's disrobed
in some way.
Right. But you killed her. So,like, you're. You're not great.
Yeah. But. So his argument isthat the term sexual assault kit
was prejudicial and theyshould have used the term physical
assault kit, which. What thefuck is that? Nobody ever calls it
that. It's called a sexualassault kit because it's what it
is.
Yeah.

(48:39):
And the court of appeals. Imean, I was reading it and I was
like, damn, this is a littlebit of a talking to. The appellate
decision was basically a get.Because they said if we called it
something else, there wouldn'thave been a different result.
Exactly.
You would have still beenconvicted if we called it a physical
assault kit.
Yeah.
And they also know that theway what Daisy was found was far
more suggestive of her havingbeen sexually assaulted than the

(49:02):
term sexually assault kit.
Exactly.
Yeah. Think about what you'resaying here. And I think that what's
interesting is, like, whenyou're thinking about an appeal based
on, like, oh, hey, youshouldn't have shown this piece of
evidence because it wasprejudicial, or you should have referred
to something in a differentway. They are going to look at like,
okay, if that part waschanged, say that per. Say it shouldn't
have been done that way, Wouldthere be a different result? Would

(49:23):
it be a massive change?
Exactly.
And like, no, you're a fuckingdick. It's very clear that you murdered
her so he just can truly,truly get fucked.
Right.
Right.
Well, I hope he never sees thelight of day again. He's fucking
awful.
Yeah.
Poor Daisy.
Yeah. The justice for Daisypage is still up. And you can see
they posted a lot aboutJeffrey, which. Heartbreaking. But

(49:45):
you can also see statementsfrom Daisy's mom where she talks
about, like, how hard this is.And my heart just hurts so much for
her and her family and herfriends. And, like, I really do think
that both Mimi and Rebecca,they stepped in and helped in such
a. A way that doesn't. Itdoesn't seem like, oh, my gosh, it's
this massive lift, but it's amassive thing when it has this type

(50:06):
of result. Because I don'tthink they would have found Sosa,
but for their efforts.
I agree. It really did take agroup of people holding others accountable.
Right.
They're like, nope, keepgoing, keep going. Keep doing this.
Here he is. This is him.
Yeah.
Without it. Yeah, I agree.They probably would have sat on it
for too long. And if theydidn't make, like, the Internet presence

(50:27):
known. Perhaps someone inMexico wouldn't have spotted him.
Yeah, well. And what'sinteresting, too, is the person who
had that tip was like, I thinkthis is a person who I work with.
So I would absolutely be like,hey, come get this fucking violent
asshole if this is him.
Right. Exactly. I will say, ifyou do check it out. The videos of
her are cute, right? Like, herfriends making videos of her. Just

(50:48):
so sad. She was loved.
Yeah, she was incrediblyloved. And still is.
Yeah.
Oh, also, I'm gonna read youthis part because it got me. I'm
a cry gal, but am I always,like, an immediate. Just tears? So
on the justice for Daisy page,Mimi posts messages from Susie, and
she signs off on that fromthem, like a little hashtag that

(51:09):
says, daisy's mom forever.Which, like, hits me. Just. I don't
know why. Like, daisy's momforever. She's like, she's not still
here, but I'm still her mom.
Yeah.
Like, right? Oh, that hits me.No, I'm crying.
Yeah, that one. So sad. It'shorrific. And just. I can't imagine
the anger that all of herloved ones felt. Just, like, knowing,

(51:31):
like, they're like, I know inmy bones, he did it. And they're
just like, well, maybe, maybenot. Like, I understand innocent
until proven guilty. Like,obviously get that.
Yeah.
But if they're like, this isthe person. You take that and you
go, okay, we need to really,truly investigate this person before
we even look for another one.Because if they're saying they have
evidence that he did it, whynot at least look at it?

(51:51):
It almost feels like herfamily and friends were like, here
is information. We think thisis who it is. It's Victor Sosa. And
the police are going, whocould it be? We could tell. And they're
like, oh, no, no, it's thisperson. Here's the information. Here's
records of what we've toldpeople. And they're like, nope, couldn't
figure it out. Who could itpossibly be? Which is just maddening.

(52:14):
Well, and the one thing wedidn't bring up is the third person,
the unknown person that stillhasn't been.
Yeah. And it's unclear ofwhether. Is it that somebody touched
the crime scene. Some of thethings were Daisy's belongings, like,
her keys and stuff. But forthem to find their DNA on the knife,
too, is a bit strange.
That's weird.
I guess where I get a littlebit like, is that it's on both the

(52:35):
rug and Daisy's belongings.So, like, I could see it Being someone
in her life who she justinteracts with. If the steak knife
was maybe from her house, wedon't know where the steak comes
from. Or, like, it was just onher keys. Right. Like, it was on,
like, her items that shecarries around, but it was on that
steak knife. It was on herkeys, and it was on the top of the
rug.
I feel like someone helped himand carried the rug with him. And

(52:59):
for some reason, when they'retalking about the video evidence,
I don't know why the otherperson's not seen or talked about.
From my understanding, therewasn't really like, a lot you could
see in the. The video. It waslike, more like shadows and stuff,
because they had a record ofit in the appellate documents, and
it's. It kind of. They'relike, this doesn't really have enough,
and, like, there's a burden ofproof on the state to prove that
it's him, and they kind ofcouldn't. So they were like, this

(53:21):
just wasn't the best evidence.But, like, we've got plenty of other
things to go on.
Right. But still weird.
Yeah, still weird.
I feel like someone had tohave been there to help or at least
be like, okay, here's whatwe're gonna do. I'll help you move
everything or something. Maybethey didn't play a part in killing
her, but they played the partin moving the rug and putting her
in it.
Yeah, but why would they havetouched her keys?

(53:42):
Because I'm assuming the wayshe was, her keys probably fell out
of, like, her pocket or something.
That's true. That's true.
And that they were justgrabbing everything. I. I imagine
that they're grabbingeverything. Throwing it in a rug,
rolling her up, and thentrying to get her out of there quickly.
Because it's a apartmentcomplex, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
So horrific. Hopefully one daythey figure that other person out
too, because I think theyshould be sitting next to him.

(54:03):
Absolutely.
If they played a part and ifit was something innocently, like
someone touched all thethings, and then they didn't realize
that they touched it duringthe investigation or something. But
again, I don't think that happened.
Same.
But anyways, we are happy thatthese two had a group of people that
loved them enough to continuefighting for them. It's awful that
law enforcement didn't dotheir jobs until forced to do so,

(54:26):
but the love that theirfriends and family had for them did
help. And this is not a joyoustalk for Valentine's Day, but, yeah,
we're celebrating love in adifferent Strange way, but.
It might not be joyful. But Ithink that it is a way to appreciate
love in motion. Because whatis pushing on through your grief

(54:47):
to solve your loved one'smurder if not love in motion? Like,
that's a really hard fuckingthing, and you're dealing with a
lot. So to be able to continuethat, I feel like that is love. And
that's what we're celebrating,right? We're celebrating all the
ways that you can love someone today.
That is true. It takes a lotof love to especially stand up to
police and authoritativefigures that should be doing their

(55:11):
job. So.
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
And as we're talking aboutcelebrating love, be sure to celebrate
all the love in your life,including platonic love. As we mentioned
earlier, this is an I loveyou, bestie episode. So I love you,
Damien.
I love you, Madison.
And before we go, just veryquickly, Amanda, what is your best
Valentine's Day?
I think I've said this beforeon the show, but it's when Mike proposed,

(55:33):
because he chose Valentine'sDay because it was the one day that
I would never expect it to happen.
I love this.
No. Hate to anyone that'sgotten engaged on.
Valentine's Day, but that justlike, yeah, I'm very.
Not that. So that's how he wasable to surprise me. And I've already
said it before, but heconvinced me that there was a stray
dog that went to the area hewanted to propose at. So, of course,

(55:54):
me running down brilliant hillgoing, puppy, I have a new puppy
now. It was just a ring, nopuppy, but, you know.
Sigh.
Still fun.
Yeah. Yeah. No, that is avery. That's a good one. That was
a good way to surprise you, Ithink. What about yours? So mine
was. It was the. The firstValentine's Day after I had left
a very abusive relationship,and it was the first time in over

(56:16):
10 years that I was single onValentine's Day. And so I was watching
Game of Thrones on my laptopbecause this is when, like, new episodes
of that were coming out. I waseating a medium rare steak. I had
a box of wine and a box ofdark chocolates. I don't know how
I was balancing all of this inmy, like, around my tub, because
it wasn't like one of those,like, big, like, fancy ones. Like,

(56:36):
it was like normal bathtub,like a shower bathtub combo.
So, like a full balancing acton the side then?
Yes, yes. Like, I had theplate on the side of the tub. Like,
I didn't have a fancy littletray. I Have one now. I think Bennett.
Yeah.
I think Ben actually may havegot it for me for a Valentine's Day.
Like, he's great, but nothingbeats the feeling of that Valentine's
Day where I felt like, this isthe biggest way I can love myself

(56:58):
is to keep myself safe. And,like, I'm gonna be okay and things
are gonna be okay because I amsafe. And eating a steak in a bathtub
with my box wine bathtub, itjust freaks me out.
That stresses me out way toomuch, honestly.
Like it should. I am gonna behonest. I do think that the box wine
influenced the decision to eata steak in the bathtub, but you had

(57:19):
to.
Be prepared before you got inthat bathtub. You would have had
to bring that wine and thesteak. Unless you were already drinking
wine pre bathtub.
That's what I'm saying. Ithink that I had begun drinking the
wine. Then I was like, thiswould be better in the tub, obviously.
And so then that's what I did.A treasure at a light. And I was
also, again, like, fork andknife. I wasn't like, holding the.
Like, it. Like a lollipop on afork, eating it. Like, I was like,

(57:42):
a lady.
Either Freaks me out.
Yeah. Yeah, that was a lady.With my bathtub steak and wine boxed
wine. I can't if you. Look, ifyou don't have plans tonight, I cannot
stress enough eating yourfavorite savory food in the tub.
Don't eat chocolates. That'scliche. I want you eating something
you shouldn't be eating in thebathtub, frankly. Like. Like lasagna

(58:03):
or corn on the cob. Why did Igo there?
What's wrong with you?
I wonder if corn on the cob isanyone's favorite food other than
that little kid who made theTikTok audio.
I don't know. Lindsay has thisweird connection with corn porn.
I do not. I was just thinkingof things that would be weird to
eat in the tub. Steamed crabs.
You're. You've lost your mind.

(58:24):
I haven't. I haven't.
I was gonna say that theReese's hearts, because they're the
best Reese's because.
There'S no edge, which Idisagree with you because I think
the edge is the best part. Wink.
No, you're wrong.
No, I am correct. I am correct.
It's pointless, all right? Allwe want is the hearts. The pumpkins.
No.
The Christmas trees.

(58:44):
No.
They're all, like, the sameshape, too. Like, it doesn't even
make any sense.
Yeah, they're all like a blobit's like the machine broke and they
were like, like someone's job.Someone's job is to, like, sort the
blobs of the broken machineinto, like, what holiday it could
be.
Oh, the Easter egg too. Yeah.
They're like, that one's round.
That was a heart.
This one has more than one,like, jagged angle. That's a tree.

(59:08):
This one has two sides thatare kind of like symmetrical. That's
a bet.
All of them missing the worstpart of the Reese's. So it's all
great.
I honestly would love an oopsall edges option for Reese's.
No, you're wrong.
Anyway, all that to say, lovethe people around you. Have yourself
a savory dinner in the tub ifyou can, with. With no other plans.

(59:32):
So I guess if you want tofollow Lindsay's lead, eat a steak
in the bathtub or edgelessReese's. Hope you have a great weekend.
Thanks for creeping with us.Thanks for listening and as always,
a special thank you to ourpatrons who support us via Patreon.
Please see the link in ourshow notes to learn more about how
you. Yes, you can begin tohaunt the dump Gard vortexes or even

(59:56):
become a scorching Sasquatch.
Ooh. Also in our show notes,you can find the link to our website,
more information on oursources, our social media handles,
and our merch store.
We'd love for you to keepcreeping with us, so if you like
this episode, pleasesubscribe, rate, review and share
the show with your fellowcreeps and or ghosts.
I beg of you.

(01:00:21):
Cuz typically that does atleast mean over 18. Yeah. Unless
you're in Arizona and theytattoo children now for whatever
reason. Have you not seen that article?
No.
It's weird as hell.
Oh my gosh. It was nine.
Yeah. Nine years old. That'swhy I was like, kids nine. Up, up.
Yeah. Also, I mean, that's.The tattoo artist is ethically compromised,

(01:00:41):
right? Like, if a nine yearold comes to you and asks for a tattoo,
you should not want to tattoothem. Like, it's weird to want to
tattoo a child.
You're like, I have thistemporary one that we put on with
a rag.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or I wouldbe like acting like I'm doing a tattoo
and actually not.
Yeah, our world's fucked.We're fucked. But anyways. Okay.
Also though, can we just talkabout, like, just like for a moment?

(01:01:02):
Like that is some politicalindoctrination if a 9 year old wants
a Trump tattoo. I am allabout, like, teaching your children
to, like, Follow your ethicsand values and all of these things.
But there is a differencebetween teaching your child values
and what is important to youand your family.
Yeah.
And teaching them devotion toa person.
Yeah. It's weird.

(01:01:23):
And I didn't grow up veryreligious to, like, sometimes that's
even hard for me to, like,understand for people. But specifically
with this is like, this isjust a person. This isn't even a
religious icon. Like, this isjust a person.
That's sad.
That hurts my heart. Kidsshouldn't have, like, political idols
in this way. At. At nine. At nine.

(01:01:44):
No. And, like, I have a nineyear old. If I were to go, hey, if
you were to get a tattoo right.
Now, what would it be? Spider Man.
Like a video game or somethingdumb, Right? Like, he'd be like,
I want a Lego. Or, you know,a. A piece of toast would be his.
I guess that also just makesme think that they took her there
to get branded.
It's absolutely disgusting.

(01:02:04):
Like, he's like, he made surethe tattoo was not forged and that
it was something she loves.She actually wanted Donald Trump
on her neck.
Yes. Maybe it's because I'm inArizona, but I've seen that everywhere
lately, and I'm like, I have anine year old. You know, like, absolutely
not. Can you hear Ollie andSpectre barking?

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Pal-entines: besties getting justice (the disappearance of Danny Goldman & the murder of Daisy De La O)

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