June 20, 2025 • 44 mins
Join us while we delve into the unsolved murders of Lisa Gurrieri and Brandon Rumbaugh. We’ll discuss the time leading up to their murders, the bizarre photos taken on their disposable camera, and ongoing investigation.
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- Suspect in murders takes own life
- Arizona's Family- The Murders on Bumble Bee Road
- John Gurrieri
- Deaths of Scottsdale couple still not solved 19 years later | 12news.com
- Brandon Keith Rumbaugh
- Year later, murders of E.V. couple unsolved | News | eastvalleytribune.com
- Lisa Guerrieri Obituary June 15, 2023 - Alderson-Ford Funeral Homes
- Argument may have preceded couple's death | News | eastvalleytribune.com
- Cold Cases — Yavapai Silent Witness
- Slain while camping in 2003, Scottsdale couple's killing still a mystery
- Lisa Marie Gurrieri
- Mother hopes for answers nearly two decades after murder of Lisa Gurrieri, Brandon Rumbaugh
- Deaths of Scottsdale couple still not solved 19 years later | 12news.com
- Lisa Marie Gurrieri (1984-2003) - Find a Grave Memorial
- Brandon Rumbaugh,
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Hi. Welcome to True Creeps,where the stories are true and the
creeps are real.
We'll cover stories fromgrotesque gore to.
The possibly plausibleparanormal to horrifying history
to tense and terrible truecrime and.
Everything else that goes bumpin the night. We're your hosts, Amanda.
And I'm Lindsay, and we wantyou to join us while we creep.
We cover mature topics.Listener discretion is advised. Hello,
(00:30):
everyone. Today we are goingto be discussing a cold case out
of my home state, Arizona,from 2003. So it's been a while.
This one caught my attentionbecause it involves some strange
photographs. And this one wasactually sent to us by Nora. So thank
you, Nora. This wasinteresting to look at.
The photographs are unnerving.They are.
(00:51):
And I'm sure I've said it amillion times on here. I'm obsessed
with cameras.
Right.
So as soon as Nora sent methis, I was like, oh, after seeing
the photographs, I have tolook into this case for me anyway,
so I'm like, we're gonna do anepisode on it because it's wild.
Yeah.
Now the case is soheartbreaking, especially cause it's
a cold case. So the poorfamily never had this resolved. So
(01:14):
let's first talk about our twovictims. Their names were Lisa Guerreri
and Brandon Rumbaugh. The twowere dating, but some sources say
that they were recentlyengaged and that they were celebrating
their one year anniversarywhen they were murder.
I hate that.
Me too. And they were. Theywere babies. Right. So Lisa was born
on July 14th of 1984, and shewas only 19 years old at the time.
(01:37):
She was working for SRP as asecretary, and that's a power company
out here. She graduated fromMesa High School and she was a sophomore
at Mesa Community Collegestudying business management. I also
saw somewhere that sheeventually wanted to be a wedding
planner because she wasinspired by the film the Wedding
Planner, which I thought wascute. I love that she enjoyed singing
(01:58):
and she sang with a band atChrist the King Catholic Church.
And according to her friendsand family, she was loved by everyone
who knew her and she had noenemies. Her mother said that she
was beautiful inside and out.And her Uncle Mike said that she
was the type of person thatcould walk in a room when you're
ticked off or upset, and thenyou couldn't help but smile because
(02:19):
she always had a big smile onher face. So just like a warm person,
right?
Yeah.
Another memory that he hadshared is that she sang at his wedding.
That's so sweet.
So she was like, very talented too.
Yeah.
Lisa's father, unfortunately,his name was John, died about a year
and a half before she died.And he died on May 29th of 2002.
(02:40):
And so her Uncle Mike hadmentioned that the last thing that
her father heard before hedied was Lisa singing. And then after
her father's passing, she gotreally close with her uncle. And
he said in a few interviewsthat she was like one of his own.
So Brandon was born on May 7thof 1983, and he was 20 years old.
He graduated from CoronadoHigh School in 2001.
(03:03):
Now, that was our rival highschool when I was in high school.
So I likely know some of thepeople that went to high school with
him. Like, I'm still friendswith people from Coronado.
When you say rival, was itlike sports rival or.
Yeah, yeah. Like, I wasn'tinto the sports, obviously, but the
sports, that was a thing, yeah.
Brandon worked as a personaltrainer at a gym in Mesa, and he
(03:24):
attended Arizona StateUniversity. He was also in the United
States Marine Reserves. He haddreams of opening his own gym one
day. I love. They both had bigdreams. They were like, this is what
I want. Because sometimes,like when you're that age, you're
like something that just hurtsmy heart so much. So he's a jock,
right? But Brandon also lovedall kinds of art. He painted and
(03:45):
sculpted, he danced in somelarge productions, and he even played
drums in a local band. He hada great sense of humor. His friends
and family said that he wasgoofy and fun loving. Brandon's friends,
after he died, created ascholarship fund in his name.
That was very sweet.
I think that's a beautiful wayof honoring someone. So Brandon and
Lisa lived in Scottsdale,Arizona. Lisa's mom Paula said that
(04:07):
Brandon treated her daughterlike a queen. And their friends that
they were both very happytogether. So on Friday, October 17th
of 2003, the two set out to gocamping up north in Arizona. They
originally wanted to go toDisneyland, but it was a bit too
pricey. So they went toBumblebee Road off of the 17.
I've passed that area a ton oftimes. It's pretty remote and it's
(04:28):
just desert all around. Butthere's like some camping areas nearby.
And typically you go past thatarea, like to go up to the northern
cities and stuff, but it's notsomewhere that I would ever really
think to stop. But I guess alot of people, like do ATVs and stuff
like that.
Oh, that makes sense. And thenjust as a note, since 2003, there
(04:48):
has been some reconstructionin that area, so it doesn't look
quite the same as when theywere there, but it is still relatively
remote.
Mm. Yeah, there's not much outthere. Now, Lisa had never gone camping
before and her mom was alittle worried because they asked
about borrowing her truck andshe was like, I don't know, it needs
an oil change. Not sure aboutthat. But she ended up letting them.
(05:10):
Their plan was to sleep in theback of the truck and then be back
by 9am the next morning. Soit's just like a quick overnight
trip just to hang out, watchthe stars come home. The truck was
a white Ford F150. And thenagain, Lisa's mom was like, yes,
I guess you can borrow it, butbe home in the morning. Now, Lisa
told her aunt and her mom notto tell her Uncle Mike about the
(05:32):
trip as she knew that he wouldnever let her go. And remember, they
were close after her fatherpassed, so he was like her father
figure and he kept her safe.Mike did an interview a few years
back talking about how hedidn't know that she was going up
there and that he wouldn'thave ever let Lisa go there. He mentioned
that the area is dangerous asmany people go up there to party
(05:54):
and then some of them bringguns up there. And he knew that because
he had done the same. He hadgone out over there to party before.
So he's like, I don't want hernear that crowd. And for anyone not
near Sona, I don't know ifit's like that everywhere, but that's
like a typical teenager thingtoo out here is like, if you want
to have like a little party inthe desert, like far away, because
(06:17):
no one can like stop iteasily. So that's like a thing that
we do here.
I mean, I think that there'ssome version of that everywhere.
What I think of that type ofsituation, that's like teenagers,
right? It's people who arebeing young and dumb, not people
who are nefarious. So I thinkit's one thing to be like, oh, I'm
going to go camping in thisplace where people around my age
(06:37):
hang out, versus I'm going togo to a place where there is criminal
activity that is nefarious,not just reckless. There's a little
bit of a difference there.
That's true. It's just. It's alittle scary as, like, when you go
into the middle of the deserthere, a lot of people do go shooting.
And so, like, if you're kindof in a remote area and they're shooting
(06:59):
and they don't know thatyou're there. That's a little scary.
And there's a lot of recklesspeople out there. So, like, I see
where he, where he's comingfrom. Like, honestly, no one should
go out in the desert herebecause it's dangerous for a number
of reasons, including crittersand things. But I felt bad because
he mentioned that it crushedhim ever since because, like, he
didn't get to stop her. Yeah,not his fault, obviously, but it
(07:21):
just sucks.
That is very sad.
So on their way up, Lisa's momPaula called to check on them. And
she was like, are you guysthere yet? And Lisa said, no, we're
still driving. We're X amountof miles away. So typical normal
conversation. Paula ended itwith, you know, be careful, I love
you. All of that. And thenthat was the last phone call that
(07:41):
they ever had.
The idea of the last phonecall just hurts the heart.
Yeah. Yeah.
Now, the next morning, Brandondid not show up for work and Lisa
didn't go home. So her mom gotworried. Paula later said it was
mother's instinct that kickedin and she knew something was wrong.
She called Mike about 10 to 15minutes after 9am Because Lisa was
(08:02):
always punctual and when shewasn't going to be on time, she would
call. So her just not showingup, especially when she'd borrowed
her mother's truck, wasbizarre. So Paula called Lisa and
Brandon's friends to startsearching. Brandon's friends, we
believe it was three men, hadremembered that Brandon had mentioned
going camping someplace thatthey had camped with him before.
(08:23):
So they had an idea of wherethey may have stayed. Those friends
went to look for him. So whatthey did was they would get off at
an off ramp, drive around,then get back onto the interstate
and continue on until theyfelt on the truck.
Yeah, and there's not much outthere, so like you can kind of scan
the area pretty well. There'slike camping spots that are a little
off the road. But again, theywere staying in the truck.
(08:45):
So they found the truck offBumblebee Road in the remote part
of the desert. In the back ofthe truck, they found that Lisa and
Brandon had both been shot todeath. So the friends flagged down
a DPS officer, Ryan Hawkins.The way that they found Brandon and
Lisa in the truck bed was thatboth of them were in their own sleeping
bags and they each had gunwounds to the head and the torso.
(09:09):
Awful scary. Very scary. Oneof the first investigators on the
scene was Lt. Frank Barbaro ofthe Yavapai. County Sheriff's Office
years later, he described thecrime scene. He said that the truck
was in an area that was usedfor parking for people who were typically
going to go out riding theirATVs or camp. He said that the truck
was backed in and it wasfairly close to the road.
(09:31):
So you would think like, kindof a concentrated area where people
might have seen something.Right. Like a parking lot of a campsite,
you know? So investigatorsbelieve that they were sleeping,
or at least they were gettingready to sleep when they were shot.
Lieutenant Tom Boltz with theYavapai County Sheriff's Office has
done a few interviews in thelast couple of years about this case,
(09:52):
and he mentioned that there'sevidence that Lisa may have woken
up during the attack, but hedidn't elaborate, like, why he thought
that. Yeah, there weremultiple gunshot wounds to both of
them. So it definitely wasn'tan accident. So I know I said, like,
people go up there to shoot,but if it was a stray bullet, I feel
like it would have been oneand it wouldn't have been obviously
both of them.
(10:13):
Yes.
And. And twice, obviously. Somurder suicide was ruled out fairly
quickly as there's no gun insight. So obviously the person left
with it. To this day, the gunhas never been found. And all we
know about it is that it wasa.25 caliber handgun, which investigators
didn't release thisinformation until about. I want to
(10:33):
say it was 2020. In aninterview where they were on camera
debating whether or not theyshould even include that detail,
which I thought wasinteresting, that they're like. They
didn't really know whatdetails they were going to release,
and it was just kind of. Iguess we'll say it now.
Yeah.
But according to authorities,it's a very small gun with only like
a 10 or 11 capacity. So itisn't very popular.
(10:54):
I'm not a gun person. I don'tknow what guns look like most of
the time. When you Googlepictures of this gun, I want you
to think like you are watchingan action movie in the 80s and a
woman pulls a gun out of herclutch, like her little clutch bag.
That's what this looks like.It's so tiny. It looks like it barely
(11:16):
would fit in an adult's hand.
Yeah. So it's not a populargun. Like, no one's really gonna
use that for anything real.Right. Like, especially going out
and shooting.
Yeah. It's. It's teeny. Yeah.
There is no evidence of sexualassault, no drugs, no alcohol. Nothing
like that was involved thatthey could see. And investigators
(11:36):
ended up collecting adisposable camera from the scene.
And it was about a hundredfeet away. Lieutenant Barbaro said
that it appeared to have beenthrown from the truck. Now, it was
broken, but they were able torecover the film in the camera and
some of the pictures,obviously. So the last three photos
are the ones that areespecially notable, and we'll post
(11:59):
them, too, but two of whichare separate photos of Brandon and
Lisa in the back of the truck.Lisa's photo is her in the back of
the pickup. And she's, like,sitting in one of the corners. And
she's. The best way I candescribe it is, like, she's leaning
back and she has, like, jeans,maybe pants on. Her legs are kind
(12:20):
of spread out. She looks likeshe's smiling, no shoes or socks
on. And it just seems like anuncomfortable position. Like, I wouldn't
take a photo like that. Itjust seemed kind of weird.
Yeah. And I would say, like,when we say that her legs are kind
of spread, like she's got,like. Think like, butt down, but
like you're sitting on yourtailbone, not on your butt. Butt.
(12:41):
Like, she's like, sorry, I'm,like, leaning back as I do it. Like,
she's leaned back in a waythat you wouldn't normally sit in.
And her legs are spread, buther knees are bent. So it's like,
in the central part of thephoto is, like, the fact that her
knees are bent and, like, theway that she's leaning. Again, it's
not a. It's not a way that youwould pose for a photo. It is very
(13:05):
bizarre.
It is. So, like I said, she'swearing pants. She's wearing a tank
top, barefoot. For somereason, now she's smiling and looking
at possibly whoever's takingthe photo. So not the camera, but
whoever's taking the photo. Itlooks like. Now, her mother, Paula,
said in an interview, itwasn't her smile. It was like she
was scared and she wassmiling. Maybe someone told her to
(13:28):
smile. To an unassuming personthat doesn't know her, it does look
like a smile.
It does. Yeah.
Mom, she knows, right? Like, Ican fake smile and I can real smile,
and the people around me would know.
And the smile doesn't reachher eyes. It's almost a grimace.
When you really zoom in andlook at it, you can tell that in
her eyes, she's not okay. Andher whole body is tense in the photo,
(13:52):
too. Like, she's posed to lookrelaxed, but she looks tense because
you can tell by her arms areengaged. Like, her muscles.
That's true. That's a goodfind there. Yeah. But it's just like.
Yeah, it's a bizarre way ofsitting and posing. Like, it's just
not a typical one. Even, like,early 2000s, you know, how, like,
poses kind of change with thetimes. That is not one then either.
(14:14):
I also just want to note that.That when I looked at that photo
of Lisa for the first time, Igot chills. I was just like.
I just sent her it blindly. Iwas like, this is the case we're
going to talk about. Thesephotos are connected to the case.
I didn't tell her anythingelse until she started researching.
So that was, like, all she knew.
Yeah. So this is just anotherbizarre facet of these photos is,
(14:37):
okay, you and your significantother are camping under the stars
in the truck bed. It's verycute. You're taking pictures of each
other. You're gonna, what,snap a shot and then you toss the
camera to your partner to takea photo. Right. Like that. That's
what makes sense. Also,presumably, it is nighttime. It is
dark. It's not as though yourposition in the truck is going to
(14:58):
necessarily matter forlighting. I don't know. I'm just
thinking of, like, when youtake a photo of somebody, like, unless
there's a gorgeous view behinda certain area, you're gonna stay
where you are. Unless it'slike a selfie.
Yeah. Agreed. Agreed.
Yeah.
Where Brandon took his photois the exact same spot as where Lisa
took hers. So instead of,like, tossing the camera like Lindsay
said, they seem to have gottenup and changed positions. And it's
(15:21):
hard to tell exactly where it is.
Originally, we weren't so surewhether it was the front or the back.
I think that it is the back.And the reason that I think that
is because one. Like the tailgate.
Right.
Look, the tailgate is becauseone. Lisa's arm moves back over the
lip of which you can see. Butalso, if you look right below her
(15:44):
elbow, you can see where thekey would. Where, like, you would
unlock the.
Oh, you're right.
But also, the other part of itis one of the things that they have
in the truck bed. It's calleda duraliner. It's like a liner that
goes into a truck bed. And ifyou look at where the logo is, the
way that it's oriented, I justpulled up pictures of it. Cause I
was like, hmm. I'm verycurious about that. We for certain
know that he's in the sameexact spot. Because one you can see
(16:09):
like the blankets and stuff,but also that Duraliner logo is in
the same space. So it's not asthough they just move the blankets
to like the other side of thetruck. And it looks the same otherwise.
All that to say it looks likethey're leaning against the back
of the truck bed.
Right.
So in his photo, Brandon iswearing a long sleeve shirt and jeans
and he's wearing shoes. Hisarms are crossed and he has more
(16:30):
of this kind of like blankexpression. To me it looks like he's
trying to school his fuckingface. If someone looked at me like
that, I wouldn't think thatthey were neutral in the situation.
I would think that they werelike something is up.
Yeah.
The background of both photosare completely dark. And again, the
way that he is also positionedis he's leaned back on his tailbone
(16:51):
and his arms are crossed. Hislegs are spread with his knees up.
And the, the angle of thephoto is straight up the middle of
his legs. So like, if you'rethinking of these photos with one
of the focal points, I feellike is the seam of their jeans in
the center, like between theirlegs. Would you agree? It's strange
and it's such a weird way.It's just like, it's a weird photo
(17:13):
composition. If Ben was like,let me take a photo of you like this,
I'd be like, hey, what if youdidn't. I feel like men, like, they
kind of like spread their legsin photos all the time. Whatever.
It's not that big of a deal.But like, women typically do not
take photos with their legsspread in that way.
No.
But anyway, even the way thathis feet are angled doesn't quite
make sense. Like they're kindof pointed outward a little bit,
(17:33):
not a ton. It's neither a posenor comfortable sitting position.
No, just very bizarre. Sothere's the photo of Lisa, there's
the photo of Brandon, andthere was also one more. And it is
overexposed, which might bebecause the camera was thrown. But
when you're looking at thephoto, you can tell that it's taken
of the inside of somewhere.Because you can see an indoor light
(17:56):
fixture. You can also seevines. And when you're looking at
it, it looks like you can seea window or a picture and what that
would look like from theinside. Looking out directly behind
the light, there's somethingon the wall. So you wouldn't see
that on the outside in thatsame way. And you can also, you can
kind of see the ceiling. Soanother reason to think that it was
(18:18):
inside, but it's certainly ata very bizarre angle yet again. And
some people think that thephoto was taken from a building in
Bumblebee that was arestaurant and Bar in 2003. Many
people theorize that when thisphoto was taken, Brandon and Lisa
were already dead. However,from an interview with a local news
(18:40):
station, it seems like it mayhave been taken before, as they said,
something of the last twophotos being of the couple. But just
to pull this back around, ifthis was the last photo, that means
that the murderer would havehad to take the camera somewhere
else and return it to thatarea. Because, as we mentioned earlier,
the camera was found near thetruck. Almost like it had been thrown
(19:02):
from the truck. So it wouldhave had to get back there somehow.
Exactly. Exactly. So I don'tknow about that, but perhaps they
visited this area. My thoughtis, like, if they went here before
they went camping or stoppedthere for whatever reason, maybe
they talked to someone. Maybethey told someone where they were
going. Maybe they said, oh,we're going up here to camp. And
they're like, are you now? Butit's. It's overexposed, so you can't
(19:26):
see the full photo. You'reonly seeing, I would guess, like,
the left side of the photo andeverything else is gone. Because
when you're looking at thephoto underneath the light, to me
it looks like that whitesmudge is maybe a shoulder and an
arm coming up. Like, perhapsit would have been someone.
Oh, I could see that in theolden times when you had a disposable
camera one. Don't we all missthe. The cranking sound? It's such
(19:51):
an iconic moment. But you hada fixed amount of photos. I think
it was like 25 or 30. So youare mildly judicious with the photos.
I'm not saying that youweren't taking pictures of random
shit, but it's certainly notlike nowadays where I'm like, I don't
want to forget that I needmilk. I take a photo of my fridge
or that's a pretty sign. Takea picture of a sign. I'm taking pictures
(20:12):
left and right. I'm pickingpictures like, they're going to stop
letting me take photostomorrow. We're taking photos all
the fucking time. That is nothow it used to be. It used to be
like, it's a moment that youwant to capture or a place you want
a photo of. You would have toactively think, I want a photo of
this moment so much that I'mgoing to take this camera that only
has 30 photos. I'm going totake a photo of it and just trust
(20:35):
it turned out well. Then I'mgoing to take that camera. I'm going
to drop it off somewhere, thenI'm going to leave. Then I'm going
to come back and pick thosephotos back up like it was a whole
fucking process. All that tosay is that I find that it's strange
that I just find it barely.Very unsettling. I find all overexposed
photos very unsettling,though. It just. They always look
(20:56):
spooky.
They do. And, like, for thisone, again, like, I think there is
a light, possibly a window orsomething framed in the background.
It looks like ivy from a planthanging down into. I don't know,
some sort of iron orsomething, fixture maybe. But to
me, it looks like there's aperson. Like, there's hair. The black
(21:17):
part is the hair. The white ismaybe a shirt, then an elbow, and
then down, maybe the shirt andthe pants. Like, I think that that
might have been a personstanding there, and somehow that
person's no longer there inthis photo. And that is strange that
that's the one that got, youknow, overexposed and messed up when
the camera fell. But also,like, I want. I wish we could know
(21:40):
who is that? Is that Lisa? Isit someone else? Who did they talk
to that day?
Yes. Now, the camera itselfwas purchased while they were on
their way to the camping areathat day, and they bought it at a
grocery store in Scottsdale.Investigators were able to see the
surveillance footage of thempurchasing it. So they definitely
know that it was from that day?
(22:00):
Yes, yes. Now, when theylooked over the crime scene, there
were a few missing items aswell. So the couple had brought a
camcorder that Lisa's mom hadalso loaned them. Now, the camcorder
was never found at the scene,but the case for it was. Detectives
have described it as a VHScamera, and they know everything
(22:21):
about it, including the serialnumber, but it has never been found.
And it's weird because thenyou're like, what was on that camcorder?
Why did they take that? Butleft, comfortably left the camera
in the area, but theypurposefully took the camcorder.
Hmm. But, yeah, they took thewhole thing. I don't know if maybe
they were gonna sell it orsomething. Yeah, a camcorder would
(22:42):
have been worth more than.Obviously, like a disposable camera
is nothing to them.
Yeah.
But we don't know. We don'tknow why they took it. Another thing
that was missing was Lisa'skeys. So that's like, why? Why did
you take the keys? Policebelieve that there were more than
a thousand people staying inthe area near the couple's campsite.
And that seems like a wholelot of people for that area. So I
(23:03):
don't know how close they meanor if they're like in the neighboring
towns or. I don't know. That.That seemed like a strange number
to me. They investigated a lotof the people that were in the area
that night when the murdershappened, but all of them were there
for like legitimate reasons.They were camping.
They were, you know, gonnaride their.
ATVs the next morning. Variousthings. Now, strangely, in a different
interview, a lieutenantmentioned that it was mainly a day
(23:26):
use area and there wasn't manypeople around. There were people
camping, but they would havebeen kind of away from the road.
Like again, that's like aplace that you park and then you
go off somewhere else to camp.So. Interesting. I don't know how
many people were there or.Yeah. What they encompassed when
they said a thousand people orif they were just saying like the
whole area in that desertmaybe just weird. But in my opinion,
(23:50):
there probably wasn't a lotbecause it is just kind of the middle
of nowhere.
Yeah, yeah.
Now, various updates have beengiven over the years. Lieutenant
Tom Boltz mentioned that therewere some new advances in what is
being used to test evidence,so they're looking into retesting.
There's also a new detectiveon the case that has been looking
(24:10):
at it for several years now,and they're hoping new eyes might
be able to find something thatwas missed back then. As of late
2023, they were working ongenealogy, trying to get some information
from the DNA that was at thescene to hopefully generate some
leads. And they're workingwith four different labs currently.
I hope that they're able tosolve it, though.
(24:31):
Me too, Me too. Boltz didmention that there were some persons
of interest and that they haveinterviewed and investigated in the
past. And it kind of soundslike they're still looking into some
people though. But he wasn'tvery specific purposefully, I'm sure.
So Deborah West, a volunteercold case investigator, has devoted
(24:51):
many hours to this case since2017. And she's working with a detective
to re interview everyoneconnected to the case. She's hoping
that maybe someone rememberssomething or feels like they can
talk about something now thatthey couldn't years ago. She's also
hoping to test Brandon's pantsas the person responsible may have
searched them.
(25:11):
Right.
Thinking of, oh, I'm gonnasteal something from him. I'll take
his wallet or what have you.
And Lisa's keys were gone. Idon't know where she got the keys,
so.
Exactly.
Interesting.
One of the things that wethought was really strange was that,
so her keys are gone. I wouldassume if you were taking someone's
keys there would be a reason.And I would be very curious as to
whether they search theirapartment afterwards for clues of
(25:34):
someone going there to stealthings or to take something. Because
that's where my head goes is.Right. It's like if you're going
to take something, it's eithera trophy or there's some type of
evidence on it or there's apurpose. But I would just be very
curious as to whether theysearched Brandon and Lisa's home
and what they found if they did.
Oh, interesting. I consideredthe keys maybe like she put her mom's
(25:56):
car key on with her keys andfor some reason they took that, but
not the truck. It just, Yeah,I, I don't know. I don't know why.
Yeah, yeah. I just immediatelygo to, well, why would you want their
keys? It's also one of thethings that people like when, when
you are robbed, for example,or if someone steals your car keys,
the concern is not just thatthey have your car keys, it's also
(26:19):
that they now presumably havethe key to your home. And that just
makes me very scared, veryuncomfortable. But getting back to
what was going on, as far asDNA goes, they have had several matches
in the area with people, buthowever, law enforcement wasn't open
with what was tested. But asof a few years ago, because that's
(26:41):
the one, the most recentinformation was released. All of
the DNA that was found near oraround the crime scene there was
a legitimate reason for itbeing out there. So they're revisiting
these interviews. They'restill doing testing from what we
know, but it's a little bitunclear as to what's ongoing with
the case because theinterviews with law enforcement were
a year or more older.
(27:01):
Yeah.
Now, Lieutenant Barbaro, whowe mentioned earlier, has said that
usually when someone iskilled, it's by someone they know.
But he says that this seems alittle bit more random and he theorizes
that it may have been aburglary and that the person didn't
know two people were sleepingin the back of the truck. We'll talk
more about that in a moment.Yavapai style witness is offering
(27:21):
up to $10,000 as a cash rewardfor information that leads to an
arrest in this case.
And that's been going on for awhile, and unfortunately, nothing's
come of it. Now, a littlewhile after her daughter's murder,
Paula asked an investigator ifshe could have some of her daughter's
personal effects. That's fair.She's like, I want whatever my daughter
had with her. Right. She wastold that they couldn't Release them
(27:44):
until 25 years have passed orwhen the case was solved. She did
not believe it was going totake that long. Which, like, why
would you. Right. You're like,yeah, they're working on it. They're
going to get them.
As much as it sucks, it doesmake sense.
Yeah.
Because you want justice foryour child. If it's something that
could be related to the case,I feel like waiting is. Is the best
(28:04):
way. But I would also be verycurious if they showed her the items
to be like, are these all Lisa's?
Oh, yeah.
Because I always curiousabout, like, what someone has on
them. What does it match?Maybe they have keys that are not
theirs. Maybe they have, Idon't know, gum. Right. Like, if
I died and I had a pack of gumin my pocket that had aspartame in
(28:26):
it, you can guarantee thatwasn't mine.
Yeah.
That kind of stuff where it'slike, you wouldn't know it was bizarre
unless you knew that person.And you can be a great investigator
all you want, but you don'tknow them like the family does. But
anyway, I just. I would becurious as to whether they did that,
if you're thinking 2003. So Ifeel like in the 90s, law and order,
we watched it, we loved it, itwas great. It's still got going,
(28:49):
But I feel like in the early2000s, there was like this influx
of police procedural dramas.There's like CSI and all those. Maybe
it was a little bit later, butI'm pretty sure it was right around
then. So we're watching all ofthese crime shows where it's like,
criminals can't hide. We'resolving every crime, we're solving
every murder. And I think thatpublic opinion really was, you can't
get away with murder.
Yeah.
(29:09):
I think Even today, people arelike, you can't get away with murder.
And I hate that. That doesn'tseem very true.
No, no. There's still coldcases. Yeah.
There's still so many unsolvedmurder cases. Just too much unaccounted
for murder. I don't like it.
And a lot of places having towork together, which doesn't always
work and then labs also arebacked up a.
(29:30):
Lot of the time.
So even though they asked forsomething, doesn't mean that they're
going to get it anytime soon. Yeah.
And as we have more and moretechnological advances, they're then
retesting data from old cases.So it's not even though these labs
are just filled with thecurrent queue of, like, what's happened
this week or last week or lastmonth. It's what happened in the
past decade where they couldtest it.
(29:52):
Exactly. Which sucks. I feelbad. But. So back to Paula. She didn't
think it was gonna take thatlong, which no one should think that
it's gonna take that long.
No.
Fourteen years later, she didan interview and cried, saying, I
just hope that this is solvedbefore I go, before I die, I want
to know who did it. But itcould be that it's not going to happen,
(30:13):
because Lisa doesn't want meto know who did it. Sadly, as we
were researching, I cameacross Paula's obituary, and she
passed on November 29, 2024.So last year.
I just find it so devastatingthat she didn't. She wasn't able
to get that. This particulardetail made me think of Winnie Johnson,
who was Keith Bennet's mother.We talked about her in the Moore's
(30:35):
murders, where she talkedabout how her son was the country's
son. Like everybody cared.Everybody wanted to find who hurt
her baby. She held onto thatas her purpose. From that point on,
it was like, I just need thisso I can have peace.
Yeah. Paula deserved to knowwhat happened. And she's no longer
with us, so it just sucks. Shewas devoted, and she did so many
(30:59):
interviews over the yearstrying to keep the case out there.
And she loved both of them somuch, she, in the interviews, would
even call them my kids, whichI thought was very sweet, you know,
like, yeah, she was devoted toboth of them. So, yeah, it just breaks
our hearts that she didn't getthe justice that she deserves for
her babies before she went.Some of the family is still alive,
(31:19):
and they're still pushing forit, too, but it's been so long, and
there's nothing.
Agreed.
So let's talk about some ofthe theories that has been presented
over the years. Mike believesthat one or more of the guys that
found the bodies, the friends,might be involved or know something.
So he's very skeptical aboutthem. Hmm. He says that one in particular
stands out to him, but henever really gave a name. I'm. I'm
(31:41):
sure that's purposeful, or,you know the investigation doesn't
want him to. But Mike saidthat the person was questioned and
was even given a polygraph,but then was let go. He believes
that the motive is that thatperson, that individual, wanted to
be with Lisa.
Interesting. We talked aboutit in previous episodes, but just
generally polygraphs areunreliable. They're not a good metric
(32:02):
for trying to suss out information.
No, no. Now, at one point,there was even a fight about this
individual possibly wanting tobe with Lisa. I couldn't find specific
details, but I did find onearticle that mentioned that there
was some sort of fight and itcould be what Mike is referencing,
but we're not 100% sure. Butanyways, according to the article,
(32:26):
Brandon was arguing with anunknown individual in a doorway of
his apartment at about 10pm aday or more before the trip. The
description of the personthat. The spokeswoman for Yavapai
County Sheriff's Office, SusanQuayle, said investigators were looking
for a person that was tall,husky, white, possibly 40 years old,
(32:47):
and was wearing a white Tshirt and blue jeans. The spokeswoman
said, quote, they're lookingfor information either from this
person or about this person.But it was very unclear as to what
the fight was. What kind offight it was. Was it just yelling?
Was there more? I know theysaid that they were kind of shouting,
but there's not specifics asto why or if that's the person that
(33:08):
Mike's referencing.
Yeah, Mike wanted to goquestion this person himself, but
he was told the guy's home hadbeen cleared out and he left town.
Bizarre.
Yeah, I mean, suspicious. Sofucking suspicious. Lt. Barber was
asked about this. He says thatthe individual moved to Washington,
he thinks, and that they wentand did a polygraph and cleared him.
But, quote, I wouldn't clearsomebody just based on a polygraph.
(33:31):
Same.
When asked if the person ofMike's interest was cleared based
on the polygraph, LieutenantBarber's response was, well, he was
cleared by them. Nobody'scleared by us right now. When the
interviewer asked them, bywho? By Washington, Lieutenant Barbara
said, no, by the detectivesthat were working the case with the
YCSO. Lt. Barbara was asked ifthis person should be reevaluated
(33:54):
and requestioned, but heanswered vaguely and said, everything's
on the table right now. Itdoes seem, however, that off camera,
Lt. Barbaro agrees that thisperson should not have been cleared.
Now, Mike believes that theYCSO botched the investigation. And
in an interview that was donein 2020, it does seem that the family
believed that Had Maricopacounty been brought in, the case
(34:17):
would have been solved by now.
And there's more resources, Ithink, here because I'm in Maricopa
county, but further north,it's a lot of small towns, too. Like,
small areas, like there'sFlagstaff in bigger areas too. But
where this was especially,it's very small and tight knit. Now,
interestingly, there have beenseveral murders with a lot of similarities
(34:37):
to Lisa and Brandon's. A fewthat we looked at have been solved,
luckily. I'm happy for those,you know, cases. But there was one
that kind of stood out to meat least, and it was one that happened
six months after Lisa andBrandon's. And there were two men
camping from Yuma up by CrownKing, and their names were William
Middaugh and Omer Casey. Themen were shot and their pickup truck
(35:02):
was stolen.
Hmm.
The suspect was tracked toColorado Springs and when he was
contacted by police, hebarricaded himself in a Super 8 hotel
and then shot himself. Lt.Barbaro believes that this could
be connected as there aresimilarities. And the suspect in
William and Omer's case was aman named Rusty Rankin, and He was
(35:25):
only 21 years old. He is beingreviewed to see if he may be responsible
for Lisa and Brandon's too.They have his DNA in his fingerprints,
but none were found at thescene as of, you know, a few years
ago when they updated thecase. That doesn't necessarily rule
him out though, and they'restill interviewing and trying to
see if there are any otherconnections between the two. When
(35:47):
they recovered Rankin's body,they also found four handguns in
his room, but they didn'tspecify as to what handguns.
Hmm, suspicious.
My guess is let's say he wasinvolved or even a similar situation.
Perhaps he saw the truck,opened the door, saw the keys were
in there or something, thensaw, oh, shit, there's people in
(36:08):
the back. They saw me, yeah,and then left. And perhaps I didn't
see specifics on William andOmer's, like, camping situation,
but perhaps they weren't intheir truck.
Ah, yeah, but for the photos Imight agree. I think the photos add
a, a different and moresinister level to this. There's crimes
(36:29):
of opportunity where thenyou're like, there's a witness. I'm
not saying it's okay. I'm justsaying that the photos wouldn't have
been taken. Couple things.Couple things just to think about.
In the photos, both Brandonand Lisa are blocking their abdomens.
You cannot, like, you can seepart of Lisa's. But the way that
she's positioned, you cannotfully see her abdomen. And the same
(36:50):
for Brandon. Secondly, tinyguns, right? We don't know a lot
about guns. Again, we're notgun girls. But like you, you can't
shoot them very far. Those areclose range weapons, so you'd have
to be close. And it's a lotmore of a personal murder to be very
close to someone and shootthem. I feel like.
(37:10):
Yeah, it is. Yeah. And it'strue. There is no motive that was
ever released for this case.It could be someone that knew them
both. It could be a randomperson and crime of opportunity because
it was in the middle ofnowhere. It could be a theft gone
wrong. It could be so manythings and it just. We're missing
like that one more piece ofevidence to like carve the path better.
(37:32):
I disagree.
Yeah.
I think that the staging ofthem in their sleeping bags like
that, that's bizarre. Leavingthem in the truck was a choice. The
photos of them was a choice.Leaving the camera in a place that
was in the perimeter of thetruck was a choice. There is so much
deliberate action in this thatit does not feel like a random burglary
(37:58):
to me. It sounds like the workof someone who has. This is not their
first, second or third timekilling someone.
Interesting.
This is 2003, when DNA is athing and people are watching crime
shows and they're like, lookat all this shit that police can
do.
Right.
And they still can't catchthem. That just feels.
Well, I just feel like there'ssomething missing as to.
Yeah.
Which person we should belooking at more, I guess. Yes. It
(38:21):
does seem deliberate,obviously. And like them in their
sleeping bags. It could havebeen that they were ready for bed.
It definitely could have beenthat. And perhaps we're just misreading
these photos. They are stillbizarre to me.
Still bizarre.
But if we are just misreadingthe photos and they were asleep and
someone just walked up, thatcould be. Or like I said earlier,
(38:41):
maybe they met someone. Andlike, especially when you're camping,
like, I hate camping. I justfeel like you're exposed and it's
like too much. But if they metsomeone, wherever that other photo
was taken and they said, oh,we're planning on watching the stars.
How easy is that? No one'sgonna know you're in the middle of
the fucking desert. Or maybe,maybe that person, whoever it was,
if it, if they met them. Whatif they're there, they're not in
(39:03):
these photos. But what if theyhung out with them. I mean, yeah,
we've had kickbacks and stuff.Like in the middle of the desert
in the back of a truck before.
Yeah.
I don't know. And it's. It'sstrange that. I mean, it's very pitch
black. Right. Like there'snothing out there. So another thing
that I think is kind of odd isthat the photos that were released
are black and white. And whenyou bought a disposable camera in
2003.
(39:24):
Yes.
You could choose like, oh, Iwant a color camera or a black and
white one. Like, I've boughtboth before. I typically went with
colored ones, but it's strangethat they released them in black
and white. I don't know ifthey are in color or if it, you know,
because it was broken, theyonly could develop it this way. I
don't know that. But I wonderif they could do more with the film
(39:45):
now, like today with all thestuff that we have to see, if any
else showcases. Another thingthat caught my attention is for these
photos, it doesn't look likeit's just the flash doing the light
to me.
I want you to go back in timewith me looking at the pictures you've
just picked up after they'vegotten. How often are pictures taken
in the dark clear? Not often.They're not often. To me, this is
(40:09):
like there's definitely.
A flashlight or a light oflantern or something because it's
a lot of light reflecting offthe sleeping bag.
Even I went camping. Like,you'd have to have. Lantern is going
to glow right around the lantern.
Like one of the. Oh, I guessthey don't have the big LED ones
that we have today either.
Yeah, I know.
A work light even.
And in 2003, you wouldn't have had.
(40:30):
That in a truck.
So they would have had to havebrought that with them. And if it
was a work light, it would be.It wouldn't be dead on.
Yeah, there's something whenyou look at.
Them, it's like almost likethey have a. Like a photography light
on them because the lightingis so specifically angled at them.
It's not from the side, it'snot off kilter. It's dead center.
And it's weird. I feel likeher lighting is better than his.
(40:53):
Like, he's more in the dark.
Yeah.
Like his face is more dark.And like for him, you could see a
little bit of the side of thetruck, but again, nothing behind
it at all. And this actuallyinteresting. I just noticed something
else. Her picture is taken bysomeone that was also either in the
back of the truck or leaninginto the truck. The person taking
his picture, they took it fromoutside the truck.
(41:14):
Yes. You can see more of thisside, huh?
But we'll post these. If yousee anything or anything stands out
to you, we want to knowbecause they're. They are strange.
Go back to 2003, yourdisposable camera game in C. Like,
I have a ton of pictures fromthat time.
Yeah.
I have boxes of them.
Mine are in Photo Bucket. Whokeeps threatening to delete them?
(41:36):
Oh, yeah. They're emptythreats. Okay. They've been threatening
me for years.
I know. Don't delete them,please. I'm also not gonna pay. I'm
so sorry. They're just notquite right, these photos. Like,
even the way that her hand ispositioned, like, her pinky is straight
against the side of the truck,and the rest of her fingers are,
like, dangling in a way thatseems very bizarre.
(42:00):
Yeah. Like, they're the samephoto but completely different. You
know, like, they're in thesame area, kind of a similar stance,
but they just have, like, adifferent story to each.
Yeah, the stance is so similarthat it's bizarre.
And I wonder, is that taken atthe height of where Lisa would take
a photo? Is it taller? Is itshorter the way that it's taken?
(42:20):
Cause, like, for me, if I'mstanding by a truck, I'm gonna have
to hold it up more to get it.I'm short. I wonder if they've thought
about that as well.
For this case in particular,it would make sense to have a forensic
photographer, if you will.
Interesting.
Also strange. So much weird,weird stuff about this. Again, we
will post the photos on oursocial media, and we just so thoroughly
(42:42):
hope that there are moreupdates on this case and that law
enforcement is able to do moreDNA testing and that the person or
people who are responsible forLisa and Brandon's death are caught
because their families deserve closure.
Yes.
And they deserve justice.
Yeah.
As always, if there are anyupdates in the case, we'll share
them in the next True Crimedigest that we do. If you have any
(43:02):
cases you'd like us to cover,please feel free to reach out to
us. We really appreciate yousending this one in, Nora. And then
just as a little. Littleendnote. Little housekeeping, if
you will. We got some newreviews lately. Thank you so much
for doing them. And if youleave a review and you haven't already
reached out, send us an emailwith a screenshot of your review,
because we'll send you asticker. Also, be sure to send us
your shipping address becausewe aren't going to investigate you.
(43:25):
Yeah, I've sent a few out toolately. So again thank you. Thank
you.
Yeah, we really, really reallyappreciate all the things, all the
reviews, all the love and withthat have a great weekend.
Thanks for creeping with us.
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(43:45):
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(44:06):
your fellow creeps and or ghosts.
I beg of you.
Hi. Welcome to True Creeps,where the stories are true and the
creeps are real.
We'll cover stories fromgrotesque gore to.
The possibly plausibleparanormal to horrifying history
to tense and terrible truecrime and.
Everything else that goes bumpin the night. We're your hosts, Amanda.
And I'm Lindsay, and we wantyou to join us while we creep.
We cover mature topics.Listener discretion is advised. Hello,
(00:30):
everyone. Today we are goingto be discussing a cold case out
of my home state, Arizona,from 2003. So it's been a while.
This one caught my attentionbecause it involves some strange
photographs. And this one wasactually sent to us by Nora. So thank
you, Nora. This wasinteresting to look at.
The photographs are unnerving.They are.
(00:51):
And I'm sure I've said it amillion times on here. I'm obsessed
with cameras.
Right.
So as soon as Nora sent methis, I was like, oh, after seeing
the photographs, I have tolook into this case for me anyway,
so I'm like, we're gonna do anepisode on it because it's wild.
Yeah.
Now the case is soheartbreaking, especially cause it's
a cold case. So the poorfamily never had this resolved. So
(01:14):
let's first talk about our twovictims. Their names were Lisa Guerreri
and Brandon Rumbaugh. The twowere dating, but some sources say
that they were recentlyengaged and that they were celebrating
their one year anniversarywhen they were murder.
I hate that.
Me too. And they were. Theywere babies. Right. So Lisa was born
on July 14th of 1984, and shewas only 19 years old at the time.
(01:37):
She was working for SRP as asecretary, and that's a power company
out here. She graduated fromMesa High School and she was a sophomore
at Mesa Community Collegestudying business management. I also
saw somewhere that sheeventually wanted to be a wedding
planner because she wasinspired by the film the Wedding
Planner, which I thought wascute. I love that she enjoyed singing
(01:58):
and she sang with a band atChrist the King Catholic Church.
And according to her friendsand family, she was loved by everyone
who knew her and she had noenemies. Her mother said that she
was beautiful inside and out.And her Uncle Mike said that she
was the type of person thatcould walk in a room when you're
ticked off or upset, and thenyou couldn't help but smile because
(02:19):
she always had a big smile onher face. So just like a warm person,
right?
Yeah.
Another memory that he hadshared is that she sang at his wedding.
That's so sweet.
So she was like, very talented too.
Yeah.
Lisa's father, unfortunately,his name was John, died about a year
and a half before she died.And he died on May 29th of 2002.
(02:40):
And so her Uncle Mike hadmentioned that the last thing that
her father heard before hedied was Lisa singing. And then after
her father's passing, she gotreally close with her uncle. And
he said in a few interviewsthat she was like one of his own.
So Brandon was born on May 7thof 1983, and he was 20 years old.
He graduated from CoronadoHigh School in 2001.
(03:03):
Now, that was our rival highschool when I was in high school.
So I likely know some of thepeople that went to high school with
him. Like, I'm still friendswith people from Coronado.
When you say rival, was itlike sports rival or.
Yeah, yeah. Like, I wasn'tinto the sports, obviously, but the
sports, that was a thing, yeah.
Brandon worked as a personaltrainer at a gym in Mesa, and he
(03:24):
attended Arizona StateUniversity. He was also in the United
States Marine Reserves. He haddreams of opening his own gym one
day. I love. They both had bigdreams. They were like, this is what
I want. Because sometimes,like when you're that age, you're
like something that just hurtsmy heart so much. So he's a jock,
right? But Brandon also lovedall kinds of art. He painted and
(03:45):
sculpted, he danced in somelarge productions, and he even played
drums in a local band. He hada great sense of humor. His friends
and family said that he wasgoofy and fun loving. Brandon's friends,
after he died, created ascholarship fund in his name.
That was very sweet.
I think that's a beautiful wayof honoring someone. So Brandon and
Lisa lived in Scottsdale,Arizona. Lisa's mom Paula said that
(04:07):
Brandon treated her daughterlike a queen. And their friends that
they were both very happytogether. So on Friday, October 17th
of 2003, the two set out to gocamping up north in Arizona. They
originally wanted to go toDisneyland, but it was a bit too
pricey. So they went toBumblebee Road off of the 17.
I've passed that area a ton oftimes. It's pretty remote and it's
(04:28):
just desert all around. Butthere's like some camping areas nearby.
And typically you go past thatarea, like to go up to the northern
cities and stuff, but it's notsomewhere that I would ever really
think to stop. But I guess alot of people, like do ATVs and stuff
like that.
Oh, that makes sense. And thenjust as a note, since 2003, there
(04:48):
has been some reconstructionin that area, so it doesn't look
quite the same as when theywere there, but it is still relatively
remote.
Mm. Yeah, there's not much outthere. Now, Lisa had never gone camping
before and her mom was alittle worried because they asked
about borrowing her truck andshe was like, I don't know, it needs
an oil change. Not sure aboutthat. But she ended up letting them.
(05:10):
Their plan was to sleep in theback of the truck and then be back
by 9am the next morning. Soit's just like a quick overnight
trip just to hang out, watchthe stars come home. The truck was
a white Ford F150. And thenagain, Lisa's mom was like, yes,
I guess you can borrow it, butbe home in the morning. Now, Lisa
told her aunt and her mom notto tell her Uncle Mike about the
(05:32):
trip as she knew that he wouldnever let her go. And remember, they
were close after her fatherpassed, so he was like her father
figure and he kept her safe.Mike did an interview a few years
back talking about how hedidn't know that she was going up
there and that he wouldn'thave ever let Lisa go there. He mentioned
that the area is dangerous asmany people go up there to party
(05:54):
and then some of them bringguns up there. And he knew that because
he had done the same. He hadgone out over there to party before.
So he's like, I don't want hernear that crowd. And for anyone not
near Sona, I don't know ifit's like that everywhere, but that's
like a typical teenager thingtoo out here is like, if you want
to have like a little party inthe desert, like far away, because
(06:17):
no one can like stop iteasily. So that's like a thing that
we do here.
I mean, I think that there'ssome version of that everywhere.
What I think of that type ofsituation, that's like teenagers,
right? It's people who arebeing young and dumb, not people
who are nefarious. So I thinkit's one thing to be like, oh, I'm
going to go camping in thisplace where people around my age
(06:37):
hang out, versus I'm going togo to a place where there is criminal
activity that is nefarious,not just reckless. There's a little
bit of a difference there.
That's true. It's just. It's alittle scary as, like, when you go
into the middle of the deserthere, a lot of people do go shooting.
And so, like, if you're kindof in a remote area and they're shooting
(06:59):
and they don't know thatyou're there. That's a little scary.
And there's a lot of recklesspeople out there. So, like, I see
where he, where he's comingfrom. Like, honestly, no one should
go out in the desert herebecause it's dangerous for a number
of reasons, including crittersand things. But I felt bad because
he mentioned that it crushedhim ever since because, like, he
didn't get to stop her. Yeah,not his fault, obviously, but it
(07:21):
just sucks.
That is very sad.
So on their way up, Lisa's momPaula called to check on them. And
she was like, are you guysthere yet? And Lisa said, no, we're
still driving. We're X amountof miles away. So typical normal
conversation. Paula ended itwith, you know, be careful, I love
you. All of that. And thenthat was the last phone call that
(07:41):
they ever had.
The idea of the last phonecall just hurts the heart.
Yeah. Yeah.
Now, the next morning, Brandondid not show up for work and Lisa
didn't go home. So her mom gotworried. Paula later said it was
mother's instinct that kickedin and she knew something was wrong.
She called Mike about 10 to 15minutes after 9am Because Lisa was
(08:02):
always punctual and when shewasn't going to be on time, she would
call. So her just not showingup, especially when she'd borrowed
her mother's truck, wasbizarre. So Paula called Lisa and
Brandon's friends to startsearching. Brandon's friends, we
believe it was three men, hadremembered that Brandon had mentioned
going camping someplace thatthey had camped with him before.
(08:23):
So they had an idea of wherethey may have stayed. Those friends
went to look for him. So whatthey did was they would get off at
an off ramp, drive around,then get back onto the interstate
and continue on until theyfelt on the truck.
Yeah, and there's not much outthere, so like you can kind of scan
the area pretty well. There'slike camping spots that are a little
off the road. But again, theywere staying in the truck.
(08:45):
So they found the truck offBumblebee Road in the remote part
of the desert. In the back ofthe truck, they found that Lisa and
Brandon had both been shot todeath. So the friends flagged down
a DPS officer, Ryan Hawkins.The way that they found Brandon and
Lisa in the truck bed was thatboth of them were in their own sleeping
bags and they each had gunwounds to the head and the torso.
(09:09):
Awful scary. Very scary. Oneof the first investigators on the
scene was Lt. Frank Barbaro ofthe Yavapai. County Sheriff's Office
years later, he described thecrime scene. He said that the truck
was in an area that was usedfor parking for people who were typically
going to go out riding theirATVs or camp. He said that the truck
was backed in and it wasfairly close to the road.
(09:31):
So you would think like, kindof a concentrated area where people
might have seen something.Right. Like a parking lot of a campsite,
you know? So investigatorsbelieve that they were sleeping,
or at least they were gettingready to sleep when they were shot.
Lieutenant Tom Boltz with theYavapai County Sheriff's Office has
done a few interviews in thelast couple of years about this case,
(09:52):
and he mentioned that there'sevidence that Lisa may have woken
up during the attack, but hedidn't elaborate, like, why he thought
that. Yeah, there weremultiple gunshot wounds to both of
them. So it definitely wasn'tan accident. So I know I said, like,
people go up there to shoot,but if it was a stray bullet, I feel
like it would have been oneand it wouldn't have been obviously
both of them.
(10:13):
Yes.
And. And twice, obviously. Somurder suicide was ruled out fairly
quickly as there's no gun insight. So obviously the person left
with it. To this day, the gunhas never been found. And all we
know about it is that it wasa.25 caliber handgun, which investigators
didn't release thisinformation until about. I want to
(10:33):
say it was 2020. In aninterview where they were on camera
debating whether or not theyshould even include that detail,
which I thought wasinteresting, that they're like. They
didn't really know whatdetails they were going to release,
and it was just kind of. Iguess we'll say it now.
Yeah.
But according to authorities,it's a very small gun with only like
a 10 or 11 capacity. So itisn't very popular.
(10:54):
I'm not a gun person. I don'tknow what guns look like most of
the time. When you Googlepictures of this gun, I want you
to think like you are watchingan action movie in the 80s and a
woman pulls a gun out of herclutch, like her little clutch bag.
That's what this looks like.It's so tiny. It looks like it barely
(11:16):
would fit in an adult's hand.
Yeah. So it's not a populargun. Like, no one's really gonna
use that for anything real.Right. Like, especially going out
and shooting.
Yeah. It's. It's teeny. Yeah.
There is no evidence of sexualassault, no drugs, no alcohol. Nothing
like that was involved thatthey could see. And investigators
(11:36):
ended up collecting adisposable camera from the scene.
And it was about a hundredfeet away. Lieutenant Barbaro said
that it appeared to have beenthrown from the truck. Now, it was
broken, but they were able torecover the film in the camera and
some of the pictures,obviously. So the last three photos
are the ones that areespecially notable, and we'll post
(11:59):
them, too, but two of whichare separate photos of Brandon and
Lisa in the back of the truck.Lisa's photo is her in the back of
the pickup. And she's, like,sitting in one of the corners. And
she's. The best way I candescribe it is, like, she's leaning
back and she has, like, jeans,maybe pants on. Her legs are kind
(12:20):
of spread out. She looks likeshe's smiling, no shoes or socks
on. And it just seems like anuncomfortable position. Like, I wouldn't
take a photo like that. Itjust seemed kind of weird.
Yeah. And I would say, like,when we say that her legs are kind
of spread, like she's got,like. Think like, butt down, but
like you're sitting on yourtailbone, not on your butt. Butt.
(12:41):
Like, she's like, sorry, I'm,like, leaning back as I do it. Like,
she's leaned back in a waythat you wouldn't normally sit in.
And her legs are spread, buther knees are bent. So it's like,
in the central part of thephoto is, like, the fact that her
knees are bent and, like, theway that she's leaning. Again, it's
not a. It's not a way that youwould pose for a photo. It is very
(13:05):
bizarre.
It is. So, like I said, she'swearing pants. She's wearing a tank
top, barefoot. For somereason, now she's smiling and looking
at possibly whoever's takingthe photo. So not the camera, but
whoever's taking the photo. Itlooks like. Now, her mother, Paula,
said in an interview, itwasn't her smile. It was like she
was scared and she wassmiling. Maybe someone told her to
(13:28):
smile. To an unassuming personthat doesn't know her, it does look
like a smile.
It does. Yeah.
Mom, she knows, right? Like, Ican fake smile and I can real smile,
and the people around me would know.
And the smile doesn't reachher eyes. It's almost a grimace.
When you really zoom in andlook at it, you can tell that in
her eyes, she's not okay. Andher whole body is tense in the photo,
(13:52):
too. Like, she's posed to lookrelaxed, but she looks tense because
you can tell by her arms areengaged. Like, her muscles.
That's true. That's a goodfind there. Yeah. But it's just like.
Yeah, it's a bizarre way ofsitting and posing. Like, it's just
not a typical one. Even, like,early 2000s, you know, how, like,
poses kind of change with thetimes. That is not one then either.
(14:14):
I also just want to note that.That when I looked at that photo
of Lisa for the first time, Igot chills. I was just like.
I just sent her it blindly. Iwas like, this is the case we're
going to talk about. Thesephotos are connected to the case.
I didn't tell her anythingelse until she started researching.
So that was, like, all she knew.
Yeah. So this is just anotherbizarre facet of these photos is,
(14:37):
okay, you and your significantother are camping under the stars
in the truck bed. It's verycute. You're taking pictures of each
other. You're gonna, what,snap a shot and then you toss the
camera to your partner to takea photo. Right. Like that. That's
what makes sense. Also,presumably, it is nighttime. It is
dark. It's not as though yourposition in the truck is going to
(14:58):
necessarily matter forlighting. I don't know. I'm just
thinking of, like, when youtake a photo of somebody, like, unless
there's a gorgeous view behinda certain area, you're gonna stay
where you are. Unless it'slike a selfie.
Yeah. Agreed. Agreed.
Yeah.
Where Brandon took his photois the exact same spot as where Lisa
took hers. So instead of,like, tossing the camera like Lindsay
said, they seem to have gottenup and changed positions. And it's
(15:21):
hard to tell exactly where it is.
Originally, we weren't so surewhether it was the front or the back.
I think that it is the back.And the reason that I think that
is because one. Like the tailgate.
Right.
Look, the tailgate is becauseone. Lisa's arm moves back over the
lip of which you can see. Butalso, if you look right below her
(15:44):
elbow, you can see where thekey would. Where, like, you would
unlock the.
Oh, you're right.
But also, the other part of itis one of the things that they have
in the truck bed. It's calleda duraliner. It's like a liner that
goes into a truck bed. And ifyou look at where the logo is, the
way that it's oriented, I justpulled up pictures of it. Cause I
was like, hmm. I'm verycurious about that. We for certain
know that he's in the sameexact spot. Because one you can see
(16:09):
like the blankets and stuff,but also that Duraliner logo is in
the same space. So it's not asthough they just move the blankets
to like the other side of thetruck. And it looks the same otherwise.
All that to say it looks likethey're leaning against the back
of the truck bed.
Right.
So in his photo, Brandon iswearing a long sleeve shirt and jeans
and he's wearing shoes. Hisarms are crossed and he has more
(16:30):
of this kind of like blankexpression. To me it looks like he's
trying to school his fuckingface. If someone looked at me like
that, I wouldn't think thatthey were neutral in the situation.
I would think that they werelike something is up.
Yeah.
The background of both photosare completely dark. And again, the
way that he is also positionedis he's leaned back on his tailbone
(16:51):
and his arms are crossed. Hislegs are spread with his knees up.
And the, the angle of thephoto is straight up the middle of
his legs. So like, if you'rethinking of these photos with one
of the focal points, I feellike is the seam of their jeans in
the center, like between theirlegs. Would you agree? It's strange
and it's such a weird way.It's just like, it's a weird photo
(17:13):
composition. If Ben was like,let me take a photo of you like this,
I'd be like, hey, what if youdidn't. I feel like men, like, they
kind of like spread their legsin photos all the time. Whatever.
It's not that big of a deal.But like, women typically do not
take photos with their legsspread in that way.
No.
But anyway, even the way thathis feet are angled doesn't quite
make sense. Like they're kindof pointed outward a little bit,
(17:33):
not a ton. It's neither a posenor comfortable sitting position.
No, just very bizarre. Sothere's the photo of Lisa, there's
the photo of Brandon, andthere was also one more. And it is
overexposed, which might bebecause the camera was thrown. But
when you're looking at thephoto, you can tell that it's taken
of the inside of somewhere.Because you can see an indoor light
(17:56):
fixture. You can also seevines. And when you're looking at
it, it looks like you can seea window or a picture and what that
would look like from theinside. Looking out directly behind
the light, there's somethingon the wall. So you wouldn't see
that on the outside in thatsame way. And you can also, you can
kind of see the ceiling. Soanother reason to think that it was
(18:18):
inside, but it's certainly ata very bizarre angle yet again. And
some people think that thephoto was taken from a building in
Bumblebee that was arestaurant and Bar in 2003. Many
people theorize that when thisphoto was taken, Brandon and Lisa
were already dead. However,from an interview with a local news
(18:40):
station, it seems like it mayhave been taken before, as they said,
something of the last twophotos being of the couple. But just
to pull this back around, ifthis was the last photo, that means
that the murderer would havehad to take the camera somewhere
else and return it to thatarea. Because, as we mentioned earlier,
the camera was found near thetruck. Almost like it had been thrown
(19:02):
from the truck. So it wouldhave had to get back there somehow.
Exactly. Exactly. So I don'tknow about that, but perhaps they
visited this area. My thoughtis, like, if they went here before
they went camping or stoppedthere for whatever reason, maybe
they talked to someone. Maybethey told someone where they were
going. Maybe they said, oh,we're going up here to camp. And
they're like, are you now? Butit's. It's overexposed, so you can't
(19:26):
see the full photo. You'reonly seeing, I would guess, like,
the left side of the photo andeverything else is gone. Because
when you're looking at thephoto underneath the light, to me
it looks like that whitesmudge is maybe a shoulder and an
arm coming up. Like, perhapsit would have been someone.
Oh, I could see that in theolden times when you had a disposable
camera one. Don't we all missthe. The cranking sound? It's such
(19:51):
an iconic moment. But you hada fixed amount of photos. I think
it was like 25 or 30. So youare mildly judicious with the photos.
I'm not saying that youweren't taking pictures of random
shit, but it's certainly notlike nowadays where I'm like, I don't
want to forget that I needmilk. I take a photo of my fridge
or that's a pretty sign. Takea picture of a sign. I'm taking pictures
(20:12):
left and right. I'm pickingpictures like, they're going to stop
letting me take photostomorrow. We're taking photos all
the fucking time. That is nothow it used to be. It used to be
like, it's a moment that youwant to capture or a place you want
a photo of. You would have toactively think, I want a photo of
this moment so much that I'mgoing to take this camera that only
has 30 photos. I'm going totake a photo of it and just trust
(20:35):
it turned out well. Then I'mgoing to take that camera. I'm going
to drop it off somewhere, thenI'm going to leave. Then I'm going
to come back and pick thosephotos back up like it was a whole
fucking process. All that tosay is that I find that it's strange
that I just find it barely.Very unsettling. I find all overexposed
photos very unsettling,though. It just. They always look
(20:56):
spooky.
They do. And, like, for thisone, again, like, I think there is
a light, possibly a window orsomething framed in the background.
It looks like ivy from a planthanging down into. I don't know,
some sort of iron orsomething, fixture maybe. But to
me, it looks like there's aperson. Like, there's hair. The black
(21:17):
part is the hair. The white ismaybe a shirt, then an elbow, and
then down, maybe the shirt andthe pants. Like, I think that that
might have been a personstanding there, and somehow that
person's no longer there inthis photo. And that is strange that
that's the one that got, youknow, overexposed and messed up when
the camera fell. But also,like, I want. I wish we could know
(21:40):
who is that? Is that Lisa? Isit someone else? Who did they talk
to that day?
Yes. Now, the camera itselfwas purchased while they were on
their way to the camping areathat day, and they bought it at a
grocery store in Scottsdale.Investigators were able to see the
surveillance footage of thempurchasing it. So they definitely
know that it was from that day?
(22:00):
Yes, yes. Now, when theylooked over the crime scene, there
were a few missing items aswell. So the couple had brought a
camcorder that Lisa's mom hadalso loaned them. Now, the camcorder
was never found at the scene,but the case for it was. Detectives
have described it as a VHScamera, and they know everything
(22:21):
about it, including the serialnumber, but it has never been found.
And it's weird because thenyou're like, what was on that camcorder?
Why did they take that? Butleft, comfortably left the camera
in the area, but theypurposefully took the camcorder.
Hmm. But, yeah, they took thewhole thing. I don't know if maybe
they were gonna sell it orsomething. Yeah, a camcorder would
(22:42):
have been worth more than.Obviously, like a disposable camera
is nothing to them.
Yeah.
But we don't know. We don'tknow why they took it. Another thing
that was missing was Lisa'skeys. So that's like, why? Why did
you take the keys? Policebelieve that there were more than
a thousand people staying inthe area near the couple's campsite.
And that seems like a wholelot of people for that area. So I
(23:03):
don't know how close they meanor if they're like in the neighboring
towns or. I don't know. That.That seemed like a strange number
to me. They investigated a lotof the people that were in the area
that night when the murdershappened, but all of them were there
for like legitimate reasons.They were camping.
They were, you know, gonnaride their.
ATVs the next morning. Variousthings. Now, strangely, in a different
interview, a lieutenantmentioned that it was mainly a day
(23:26):
use area and there wasn't manypeople around. There were people
camping, but they would havebeen kind of away from the road.
Like again, that's like aplace that you park and then you
go off somewhere else to camp.So. Interesting. I don't know how
many people were there or.Yeah. What they encompassed when
they said a thousand people orif they were just saying like the
whole area in that desertmaybe just weird. But in my opinion,
(23:50):
there probably wasn't a lotbecause it is just kind of the middle
of nowhere.
Yeah, yeah.
Now, various updates have beengiven over the years. Lieutenant
Tom Boltz mentioned that therewere some new advances in what is
being used to test evidence,so they're looking into retesting.
There's also a new detectiveon the case that has been looking
(24:10):
at it for several years now,and they're hoping new eyes might
be able to find something thatwas missed back then. As of late
2023, they were working ongenealogy, trying to get some information
from the DNA that was at thescene to hopefully generate some
leads. And they're workingwith four different labs currently.
I hope that they're able tosolve it, though.
(24:31):
Me too, Me too. Boltz didmention that there were some persons
of interest and that they haveinterviewed and investigated in the
past. And it kind of soundslike they're still looking into some
people though. But he wasn'tvery specific purposefully, I'm sure.
So Deborah West, a volunteercold case investigator, has devoted
(24:51):
many hours to this case since2017. And she's working with a detective
to re interview everyoneconnected to the case. She's hoping
that maybe someone rememberssomething or feels like they can
talk about something now thatthey couldn't years ago. She's also
hoping to test Brandon's pantsas the person responsible may have
searched them.
(25:11):
Right.
Thinking of, oh, I'm gonnasteal something from him. I'll take
his wallet or what have you.
And Lisa's keys were gone. Idon't know where she got the keys,
so.
Exactly.
Interesting.
One of the things that wethought was really strange was that,
so her keys are gone. I wouldassume if you were taking someone's
keys there would be a reason.And I would be very curious as to
whether they search theirapartment afterwards for clues of
(25:34):
someone going there to stealthings or to take something. Because
that's where my head goes is.Right. It's like if you're going
to take something, it's eithera trophy or there's some type of
evidence on it or there's apurpose. But I would just be very
curious as to whether theysearched Brandon and Lisa's home
and what they found if they did.
Oh, interesting. I consideredthe keys maybe like she put her mom's
(25:56):
car key on with her keys andfor some reason they took that, but
not the truck. It just, Yeah,I, I don't know. I don't know why.
Yeah, yeah. I just immediatelygo to, well, why would you want their
keys? It's also one of thethings that people like when, when
you are robbed, for example,or if someone steals your car keys,
the concern is not just thatthey have your car keys, it's also
(26:19):
that they now presumably havethe key to your home. And that just
makes me very scared, veryuncomfortable. But getting back to
what was going on, as far asDNA goes, they have had several matches
in the area with people, buthowever, law enforcement wasn't open
with what was tested. But asof a few years ago, because that's
(26:41):
the one, the most recentinformation was released. All of
the DNA that was found near oraround the crime scene there was
a legitimate reason for itbeing out there. So they're revisiting
these interviews. They'restill doing testing from what we
know, but it's a little bitunclear as to what's ongoing with
the case because theinterviews with law enforcement were
a year or more older.
(27:01):
Yeah.
Now, Lieutenant Barbaro, whowe mentioned earlier, has said that
usually when someone iskilled, it's by someone they know.
But he says that this seems alittle bit more random and he theorizes
that it may have been aburglary and that the person didn't
know two people were sleepingin the back of the truck. We'll talk
more about that in a moment.Yavapai style witness is offering
(27:21):
up to $10,000 as a cash rewardfor information that leads to an
arrest in this case.
And that's been going on for awhile, and unfortunately, nothing's
come of it. Now, a littlewhile after her daughter's murder,
Paula asked an investigator ifshe could have some of her daughter's
personal effects. That's fair.She's like, I want whatever my daughter
had with her. Right. She wastold that they couldn't Release them
(27:44):
until 25 years have passed orwhen the case was solved. She did
not believe it was going totake that long. Which, like, why
would you. Right. You're like,yeah, they're working on it. They're
going to get them.
As much as it sucks, it doesmake sense.
Yeah.
Because you want justice foryour child. If it's something that
could be related to the case,I feel like waiting is. Is the best
(28:04):
way. But I would also be verycurious if they showed her the items
to be like, are these all Lisa's?
Oh, yeah.
Because I always curiousabout, like, what someone has on
them. What does it match?Maybe they have keys that are not
theirs. Maybe they have, Idon't know, gum. Right. Like, if
I died and I had a pack of gumin my pocket that had aspartame in
(28:26):
it, you can guarantee thatwasn't mine.
Yeah.
That kind of stuff where it'slike, you wouldn't know it was bizarre
unless you knew that person.And you can be a great investigator
all you want, but you don'tknow them like the family does. But
anyway, I just. I would becurious as to whether they did that,
if you're thinking 2003. So Ifeel like in the 90s, law and order,
we watched it, we loved it, itwas great. It's still got going,
(28:49):
But I feel like in the early2000s, there was like this influx
of police procedural dramas.There's like CSI and all those. Maybe
it was a little bit later, butI'm pretty sure it was right around
then. So we're watching all ofthese crime shows where it's like,
criminals can't hide. We'resolving every crime, we're solving
every murder. And I think thatpublic opinion really was, you can't
get away with murder.
Yeah.
(29:09):
I think Even today, people arelike, you can't get away with murder.
And I hate that. That doesn'tseem very true.
No, no. There's still coldcases. Yeah.
There's still so many unsolvedmurder cases. Just too much unaccounted
for murder. I don't like it.
And a lot of places having towork together, which doesn't always
work and then labs also arebacked up a.
(29:30):
Lot of the time.
So even though they asked forsomething, doesn't mean that they're
going to get it anytime soon. Yeah.
And as we have more and moretechnological advances, they're then
retesting data from old cases.So it's not even though these labs
are just filled with thecurrent queue of, like, what's happened
this week or last week or lastmonth. It's what happened in the
past decade where they couldtest it.
(29:52):
Exactly. Which sucks. I feelbad. But. So back to Paula. She didn't
think it was gonna take thatlong, which no one should think that
it's gonna take that long.
No.
Fourteen years later, she didan interview and cried, saying, I
just hope that this is solvedbefore I go, before I die, I want
to know who did it. But itcould be that it's not going to happen,
(30:13):
because Lisa doesn't want meto know who did it. Sadly, as we
were researching, I cameacross Paula's obituary, and she
passed on November 29, 2024.So last year.
I just find it so devastatingthat she didn't. She wasn't able
to get that. This particulardetail made me think of Winnie Johnson,
who was Keith Bennet's mother.We talked about her in the Moore's
(30:35):
murders, where she talkedabout how her son was the country's
son. Like everybody cared.Everybody wanted to find who hurt
her baby. She held onto thatas her purpose. From that point on,
it was like, I just need thisso I can have peace.
Yeah. Paula deserved to knowwhat happened. And she's no longer
with us, so it just sucks. Shewas devoted, and she did so many
(30:59):
interviews over the yearstrying to keep the case out there.
And she loved both of them somuch, she, in the interviews, would
even call them my kids, whichI thought was very sweet, you know,
like, yeah, she was devoted toboth of them. So, yeah, it just breaks
our hearts that she didn't getthe justice that she deserves for
her babies before she went.Some of the family is still alive,
(31:19):
and they're still pushing forit, too, but it's been so long, and
there's nothing.
Agreed.
So let's talk about some ofthe theories that has been presented
over the years. Mike believesthat one or more of the guys that
found the bodies, the friends,might be involved or know something.
So he's very skeptical aboutthem. Hmm. He says that one in particular
stands out to him, but henever really gave a name. I'm. I'm
(31:41):
sure that's purposeful, or,you know the investigation doesn't
want him to. But Mike saidthat the person was questioned and
was even given a polygraph,but then was let go. He believes
that the motive is that thatperson, that individual, wanted to
be with Lisa.
Interesting. We talked aboutit in previous episodes, but just
generally polygraphs areunreliable. They're not a good metric
(32:02):
for trying to suss out information.
No, no. Now, at one point,there was even a fight about this
individual possibly wanting tobe with Lisa. I couldn't find specific
details, but I did find onearticle that mentioned that there
was some sort of fight and itcould be what Mike is referencing,
but we're not 100% sure. Butanyways, according to the article,
(32:26):
Brandon was arguing with anunknown individual in a doorway of
his apartment at about 10pm aday or more before the trip. The
description of the personthat. The spokeswoman for Yavapai
County Sheriff's Office, SusanQuayle, said investigators were looking
for a person that was tall,husky, white, possibly 40 years old,
(32:47):
and was wearing a white Tshirt and blue jeans. The spokeswoman
said, quote, they're lookingfor information either from this
person or about this person.But it was very unclear as to what
the fight was. What kind offight it was. Was it just yelling?
Was there more? I know theysaid that they were kind of shouting,
but there's not specifics asto why or if that's the person that
(33:08):
Mike's referencing.
Yeah, Mike wanted to goquestion this person himself, but
he was told the guy's home hadbeen cleared out and he left town.
Bizarre.
Yeah, I mean, suspicious. Sofucking suspicious. Lt. Barber was
asked about this. He says thatthe individual moved to Washington,
he thinks, and that they wentand did a polygraph and cleared him.
But, quote, I wouldn't clearsomebody just based on a polygraph.
(33:31):
Same.
When asked if the person ofMike's interest was cleared based
on the polygraph, LieutenantBarber's response was, well, he was
cleared by them. Nobody'scleared by us right now. When the
interviewer asked them, bywho? By Washington, Lieutenant Barbara
said, no, by the detectivesthat were working the case with the
YCSO. Lt. Barbara was asked ifthis person should be reevaluated
(33:54):
and requestioned, but heanswered vaguely and said, everything's
on the table right now. Itdoes seem, however, that off camera,
Lt. Barbaro agrees that thisperson should not have been cleared.
Now, Mike believes that theYCSO botched the investigation. And
in an interview that was donein 2020, it does seem that the family
believed that Had Maricopacounty been brought in, the case
(34:17):
would have been solved by now.
And there's more resources, Ithink, here because I'm in Maricopa
county, but further north,it's a lot of small towns, too. Like,
small areas, like there'sFlagstaff in bigger areas too. But
where this was especially,it's very small and tight knit. Now,
interestingly, there have beenseveral murders with a lot of similarities
(34:37):
to Lisa and Brandon's. A fewthat we looked at have been solved,
luckily. I'm happy for those,you know, cases. But there was one
that kind of stood out to meat least, and it was one that happened
six months after Lisa andBrandon's. And there were two men
camping from Yuma up by CrownKing, and their names were William
Middaugh and Omer Casey. Themen were shot and their pickup truck
(35:02):
was stolen.
Hmm.
The suspect was tracked toColorado Springs and when he was
contacted by police, hebarricaded himself in a Super 8 hotel
and then shot himself. Lt.Barbaro believes that this could
be connected as there aresimilarities. And the suspect in
William and Omer's case was aman named Rusty Rankin, and He was
(35:25):
only 21 years old. He is beingreviewed to see if he may be responsible
for Lisa and Brandon's too.They have his DNA in his fingerprints,
but none were found at thescene as of, you know, a few years
ago when they updated thecase. That doesn't necessarily rule
him out though, and they'restill interviewing and trying to
see if there are any otherconnections between the two. When
(35:47):
they recovered Rankin's body,they also found four handguns in
his room, but they didn'tspecify as to what handguns.
Hmm, suspicious.
My guess is let's say he wasinvolved or even a similar situation.
Perhaps he saw the truck,opened the door, saw the keys were
in there or something, thensaw, oh, shit, there's people in
(36:08):
the back. They saw me, yeah,and then left. And perhaps I didn't
see specifics on William andOmer's, like, camping situation,
but perhaps they weren't intheir truck.
Ah, yeah, but for the photos Imight agree. I think the photos add
a, a different and moresinister level to this. There's crimes
(36:29):
of opportunity where thenyou're like, there's a witness. I'm
not saying it's okay. I'm justsaying that the photos wouldn't have
been taken. Couple things.Couple things just to think about.
In the photos, both Brandonand Lisa are blocking their abdomens.
You cannot, like, you can seepart of Lisa's. But the way that
she's positioned, you cannotfully see her abdomen. And the same
(36:50):
for Brandon. Secondly, tinyguns, right? We don't know a lot
about guns. Again, we're notgun girls. But like you, you can't
shoot them very far. Those areclose range weapons, so you'd have
to be close. And it's a lotmore of a personal murder to be very
close to someone and shootthem. I feel like.
(37:10):
Yeah, it is. Yeah. And it'strue. There is no motive that was
ever released for this case.It could be someone that knew them
both. It could be a randomperson and crime of opportunity because
it was in the middle ofnowhere. It could be a theft gone
wrong. It could be so manythings and it just. We're missing
like that one more piece ofevidence to like carve the path better.
(37:32):
I disagree.
Yeah.
I think that the staging ofthem in their sleeping bags like
that, that's bizarre. Leavingthem in the truck was a choice. The
photos of them was a choice.Leaving the camera in a place that
was in the perimeter of thetruck was a choice. There is so much
deliberate action in this thatit does not feel like a random burglary
(37:58):
to me. It sounds like the workof someone who has. This is not their
first, second or third timekilling someone.
Interesting.
This is 2003, when DNA is athing and people are watching crime
shows and they're like, lookat all this shit that police can
do.
Right.
And they still can't catchthem. That just feels.
Well, I just feel like there'ssomething missing as to.
Yeah.
Which person we should belooking at more, I guess. Yes. It
(38:21):
does seem deliberate,obviously. And like them in their
sleeping bags. It could havebeen that they were ready for bed.
It definitely could have beenthat. And perhaps we're just misreading
these photos. They are stillbizarre to me.
Still bizarre.
But if we are just misreadingthe photos and they were asleep and
someone just walked up, thatcould be. Or like I said earlier,
(38:41):
maybe they met someone. Andlike, especially when you're camping,
like, I hate camping. I justfeel like you're exposed and it's
like too much. But if they metsomeone, wherever that other photo
was taken and they said, oh,we're planning on watching the stars.
How easy is that? No one'sgonna know you're in the middle of
the fucking desert. Or maybe,maybe that person, whoever it was,
if it, if they met them. Whatif they're there, they're not in
(39:03):
these photos. But what if theyhung out with them. I mean, yeah,
we've had kickbacks and stuff.Like in the middle of the desert
in the back of a truck before.
Yeah.
I don't know. And it's. It'sstrange that. I mean, it's very pitch
black. Right. Like there'snothing out there. So another thing
that I think is kind of odd isthat the photos that were released
are black and white. And whenyou bought a disposable camera in
2003.
(39:24):
Yes.
You could choose like, oh, Iwant a color camera or a black and
white one. Like, I've boughtboth before. I typically went with
colored ones, but it's strangethat they released them in black
and white. I don't know ifthey are in color or if it, you know,
because it was broken, theyonly could develop it this way. I
don't know that. But I wonderif they could do more with the film
(39:45):
now, like today with all thestuff that we have to see, if any
else showcases. Another thingthat caught my attention is for these
photos, it doesn't look likeit's just the flash doing the light
to me.
I want you to go back in timewith me looking at the pictures you've
just picked up after they'vegotten. How often are pictures taken
in the dark clear? Not often.They're not often. To me, this is
(40:09):
like there's definitely.
A flashlight or a light oflantern or something because it's
a lot of light reflecting offthe sleeping bag.
Even I went camping. Like,you'd have to have. Lantern is going
to glow right around the lantern.
Like one of the. Oh, I guessthey don't have the big LED ones
that we have today either.
Yeah, I know.
A work light even.
And in 2003, you wouldn't have had.
(40:30):
That in a truck.
So they would have had to havebrought that with them. And if it
was a work light, it would be.It wouldn't be dead on.
Yeah, there's something whenyou look at.
Them, it's like almost likethey have a. Like a photography light
on them because the lightingis so specifically angled at them.
It's not from the side, it'snot off kilter. It's dead center.
And it's weird. I feel likeher lighting is better than his.
(40:53):
Like, he's more in the dark.
Yeah.
Like his face is more dark.And like for him, you could see a
little bit of the side of thetruck, but again, nothing behind
it at all. And this actuallyinteresting. I just noticed something
else. Her picture is taken bysomeone that was also either in the
back of the truck or leaninginto the truck. The person taking
his picture, they took it fromoutside the truck.
(41:14):
Yes. You can see more of thisside, huh?
But we'll post these. If yousee anything or anything stands out
to you, we want to knowbecause they're. They are strange.
Go back to 2003, yourdisposable camera game in C. Like,
I have a ton of pictures fromthat time.
Yeah.
I have boxes of them.
Mine are in Photo Bucket. Whokeeps threatening to delete them?
(41:36):
Oh, yeah. They're emptythreats. Okay. They've been threatening
me for years.
I know. Don't delete them,please. I'm also not gonna pay. I'm
so sorry. They're just notquite right, these photos. Like,
even the way that her hand ispositioned, like, her pinky is straight
against the side of the truck,and the rest of her fingers are,
like, dangling in a way thatseems very bizarre.
(42:00):
Yeah. Like, they're the samephoto but completely different. You
know, like, they're in thesame area, kind of a similar stance,
but they just have, like, adifferent story to each.
Yeah, the stance is so similarthat it's bizarre.
And I wonder, is that taken atthe height of where Lisa would take
a photo? Is it taller? Is itshorter the way that it's taken?
(42:20):
Cause, like, for me, if I'mstanding by a truck, I'm gonna have
to hold it up more to get it.I'm short. I wonder if they've thought
about that as well.
For this case in particular,it would make sense to have a forensic
photographer, if you will.
Interesting.
Also strange. So much weird,weird stuff about this. Again, we
will post the photos on oursocial media, and we just so thoroughly
(42:42):
hope that there are moreupdates on this case and that law
enforcement is able to do moreDNA testing and that the person or
people who are responsible forLisa and Brandon's death are caught
because their families deserve closure.
Yes.
And they deserve justice.
Yeah.
As always, if there are anyupdates in the case, we'll share
them in the next True Crimedigest that we do. If you have any
(43:02):
cases you'd like us to cover,please feel free to reach out to
us. We really appreciate yousending this one in, Nora. And then
just as a little. Littleendnote. Little housekeeping, if
you will. We got some newreviews lately. Thank you so much
for doing them. And if youleave a review and you haven't already
reached out, send us an emailwith a screenshot of your review,
because we'll send you asticker. Also, be sure to send us
your shipping address becausewe aren't going to investigate you.
(43:25):
Yeah, I've sent a few out toolately. So again thank you. Thank
you.
Yeah, we really, really reallyappreciate all the things, all the
reviews, all the love and withthat have a great weekend.
Thanks for creeping with us.
Thanks for listening and asalways a special thank you to our
patrons who support us via Patreon.
Please see the link in ourshow notes to learn more about how
(43:45):
you yes, you can begin tohaunt the dump guard vortexes or
even become a scorching Sasquatch.
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(44:06):
your fellow creeps and or ghosts.
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