December 13, 2025 • 36 mins
Welcome to the return of the "True Tales By Disability Advocates" podcast! In Episode 24, hosts MsBoye, Jennifer McKinney, and Adam Griebel hear multiple stories from Tanya Winters about "Maurice," the arm of her friend Susie Angel that has its own personality. This episode was recorded in September of 2024, and it will be the last episode hosted by Ms Boye due to her unfortunate passing. In Ms Boye's final episode she, Jennifer, and Adam discuss with Tanya about remembering our friends who have passed, learning to love your own body, and how important dance can be in expressing your disability.
Links
Click here to listen with the full transcript
For more details about our programs go to Art Spark Texas, True Tales Podcast Page.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristen Gooch (00:09):
Welcome to True Tales by Disability Advocates
Podcast, authentic voices ofpeople thriving with
disabilities, where individualsuse the art of storytelling to
change the world.
John Beer (00:22):
The True Tales by Disability Advocates Podcast is
produced by Arts Park TexasSpeaking Advocates Program.
A free virtual training is opento people of all disabilities,
no matter where you live.
Kamand Alaghehband (00:35):
Keep listening to hear how life's
challenges can spark the desireto speak out and advocate for
yourself and others.
Kurt Wilkinson (01:06):
But I am sad to say that she could not finish it
because Miss Boy passed away inNovember of 2024.
We at Artspark Texas apologizefor this unplanned hiatus.
We have decided to continue thepodcast and finish season three
over a year later out ofrespect for the work Miss Boy
(01:32):
put into this podcast and thepassion she had for disability
advocacy.
This will be Miss Boy's lastepisode, but our next episode
will contain a full tribute tothe life of Miss Boy and others
that we have recently lost.
But for now, presenting thisepisode of the True Tales by
(01:55):
Disability Advocates Podcast, Igive you the late Miss Boy.
Ms. Boye (02:01):
Hello, you're listening to the True Tales by
Disability Advocates Podcast,Changing the World One Story at
a Time.
This is the show whereadvocates harness the power of
storytelling to build communitywith their peers and develop
empathy in others.
Hello everyone.
I'm Miss Boy.
I'm Jennifer McKinney.
(02:21):
I'm Adam Griebel.
And we are your hosts forseason three.
I had so much fun recordingthat session with Juan.
Big part of his life was hiswife, Suzy, Susie Angel, and I
(02:41):
really wanted to have some wayof honoring her.
And when we recorded thatepisode, it was too fresh for
Juan to talk about it much,quite understandably.
Sure, sure.
Yeah.
So one of the things that mademe think of our guests is that
I've been watching theParalympics.
And I don't know if y'all sawthe opening ceremony.
(03:04):
So much of that ceremony wasthis awesome dance routines.
I just loved them.
They were just awesome.
And the commentator was talkingabout how the choreographer
said that he didn't want to dochoreography that included
people with disabilities.
He wanted to do choreographythat couldn't have been done
without people withdisabilities.
Adam Griebel (03:24):
Yeah, that sounds great.
Ms. Boye (03:26):
Yeah, it was really cool.
And whenever I see dance likethat, I think of people like our
next guest because I think ofher and Susie as dancers,
because they are.
That's how they are it filed inmy brain.
And she is the perfect exampleof the philosophy of inclusive
dance.
(03:46):
Adam, you know this guest,right?
And you knew Susie?
Adam Griebel (03:51):
Yes.
Yes, I did.
Ms. Boye (03:53):
What did you think about it?
Adam Griebel (03:55):
Well, I always wanted, uh I would have enjoyed
performing with Susie, but I Isaw them perform, but was never
able to actually perform withher.
Mm-hmm.
Ms. Boye (04:07):
Yeah, she was really funny, right?
Adam Griebel (04:09):
Beautiful person, funny.
Ms. Boye (04:11):
Yeah, brilliant writer.
Jennifer McKinney (04:13):
The next story is one of hers, and it
really demonstrates both ofthose things.
Ms. Boye (04:19):
Absolutely.
I mean, it didn't feel right tohave a season honoring actual
live stories without thisparticular story.
And our next guest was theperfect person to read it for
us.
Before we completely introduceyou to her, I'm gonna read from
her Facebook page.
It says, I'm fun, loving, anddown to earth.
I love to laugh.
In fact, I'm a littleeccentric.
(04:40):
I enjoy giving back to mycommunity.
I love dance, art, and acting.
I'm compassionate anddetermined.
I enjoy the simple things inlife.
I enjoy helping people believein themselves.
Adam Griebel (04:53):
Perfect! This is gonna be fun.
Get ready.
Here's some words of wisdomfrom today's storyteller.
Tanya Winters.
Jennifer McKinney (05:03):
Welcome, Tanya.
Thanks for joining us today.
Oh, I'm so excited to be here.
Tanya Winters (05:09):
Thanks for having me.
Jennifer McKinney (05:11):
Also, thank you for being willing to step up
and allow us to bring Susie'sstory to life.
I know the anniversary of herdeath was a couple weeks ago,
and that's always a time ofmixed emotions.
So we really do appreciate youhaving the courage to say yes
and this chance to honor Susieand her work.
Tanya Winters (05:34):
Well, you know, I was just thinking about Susie.
You know, I've been thinkingabout her a lot, and she was a
huge part of my life.
You know, her one and myself, Ireally thought we were like the
three musketeers, and you know,we really helped each other
out.
So this is just great to beable to just honor her and be
(05:59):
the person to read her story.
She was such a great writer andsuch a fierce advocate, a
wonderful dancer, and I miss herterribly.
So this is good for me and helpmy soul.
Ms. Boye (06:11):
Wonderful.
I'm so glad about that.
And I'm so grateful that yousaid yeah to this idea uh that
we had, because I agree witheverything you said about that.
Adam Griebel (06:22):
Are you ready to read Susie's story, Maurice?
Tanya Winters (06:27):
Yes, I'm gonna do the best I can.
Ms. Boye (06:30):
It's okay if you get emotional because you know we do
real here.
So nobody has to mask anythinghere.
Tanya Winters (06:37):
Well, I've I've actually been talking to Susie
all morning.
Ms. Boye (06:41):
Yay.
Tanya Winters (06:42):
I've asked her, I'm I told her I was like, I'm
channeling you.
You better help me throughthis.
So I know she's here with meright now.
Jennifer McKinney (06:51):
That's beautiful.
Adam Griebel (06:54):
Great! Stay with us for Maurice by the late Suzy
Angel, read to us by her friendand fellow dance revolutionary
Tanya Winters.
Tanya Winters (07:07):
I'm Tanya Winters, and this is Maurice by
my dear, dear friend, SusieAngel.
The most complicated part of mybody is my right arm.
It seems as though it has amind of its own, and it's
getting more and more rebelliousas I get older.
(07:27):
I started really noticing thisabout five years ago.
One day, when my right arm haddone too many things without my
permission, my attendant Marydecided to name it Maurice.
The earliest stunt that I canrecall him pulling was when I
was six months old.
(07:49):
I was taking a nap in my crib.
All of a sudden, mom heardblood curdling cries coming from
my room and ran to see what waswrong.
Maurice had his fingersentangled in my hair and was
pulling as hard as he could.
One night, I accidentallyrolled over onto my back, and
(08:14):
Maurice decided to quabble Juanright across the face at 5
o'clock in the morning.
I didn't even feel him do it.
All I knew was that for somereason Juan was asking me what
he did wrong.
I was getting clothes out ofone of my drawers one morning
(08:34):
and Maurice decided to reach upand hit my alarm clock.
Other times I'll be organizingthings or folding the piece of
paper with my other hand andorfeet, and I'll have Maurice
tucked behind my back so wecan't do anything.
If I'm sitting on the floordoing things, Maurice will reach
(08:58):
out and knock over whatever ison the floor or grab something.
I used to get frustrated whenmy right arm would do things
like this because it made mefeel so out of control of my own
body.
Now that I have a name for it,things are different.
It's almost as though I alwayshave a little kid with me, and
(09:22):
he's always testing me to seehow far I'll let him go.
Adam Griebel (09:28):
That was a good story.
Ms. Boye (09:30):
It is.
I love that story.
Having known Susie, I can justimagine that happening, and I I
love the idea of having a pieceof yourself that doesn't behave
the way you want and naming it.
And I actually just saw a thingon the Paralympics where they
interviewed a whole load ofpeople who have short arms.
One arm is short, and um theywere asking all these different
(09:52):
people, like from kids toadults, do you have a name for
your arm?
And some of them were likeNubby or My Baby Hand.
You know, it was reallyinteresting that uh so many
people do that, you know, sure.
And it makes total sense to me.
Tanya Winters (10:04):
Yeah, I mean, it's so awesome to be able to
read that story because I I Ijust I have a picture of Maurice
in my mind now, and I can justremember all the things that he
would do.
And me myself, I tend to thinkof my body almost as another
(10:28):
part of my personality, and I'mconstantly talking to myself,
you know, trying to likeencourage that brain-body
connection or helping my brainout.
And it's so important to nameit, yeah, to talk to it, because
it really does help, yeah, helpyou get through the way.
Ms. Boye (10:50):
I think that's part of like I'm in recovery, and you
know, like naming my addict as apart of me, not separate from
me, but a separate part of methat doesn't have to be in
control that you can control wasa big part of you know, coming
to terms with who I am.
Jennifer McKinney (11:04):
I think on some level I can relate to this
story really well because I havelike no hand-eye coordination,
being visually impaired, yeah,exactly.
And as a result, there are daysthat I'll knock into
everything, drop something, orboth, and it's just ridiculous.
It just happens.
(11:25):
So this story touches me thatway, yeah.
Ms. Boye (11:29):
And I would guess that part of your growing upness is
like rather than get annoyed atyourself, is going, all right,
here we go again, you know, andbeing at peace with it.
Tanya Winters (11:40):
Yes, definitely.
Well, you know, Susie and I hadthe same disability.
We we both have cerebral palsy,and you know, we were both very
spastic, you know, our muscleswere very tight.
And you know, her and I bothknew that spasticity can be your
best friend and your worstenemy all kind of rolled up into
(12:03):
one.
Right.
And the worst thing you can dois get frustrated with yourself.
You you have to find ways todistract yourself, make jokes
about it.
Sure, sure, you know, um inorder to to you know just to
deal with it, you know.
Ms. Boye (12:21):
Yeah, yeah.
I I feel like that too about myADHD or my autism, like not be
ashamed of it or angry atmyself, whether it's your
situation or my situation orJennifer's situation, you can
walk around with so much shameif you can't make friends with
it.
Tanya Winters (12:37):
Gotta accept who you are.
Well, let's face it, you know,having a disability, quite
frankly, is a pain in the asssometimes.
And it's it's really hard, youknow, and it's okay to say that.
And God knows we've allscreamed it more than once in
our lives, but you know, wecan't stay there.
Ms. Boye (12:57):
Yeah.
Tanya Winters (12:58):
You know, because it's just a time suck.
Adam Griebel (13:00):
Yeah.
Tanya Winters (13:01):
And it doesn't really help you.
Adam Griebel (13:03):
Material life is a pain in the butt.
I have I I I have a tremor andI have physical things like
that, not nearly as profound aspeople with more physical
disabilities than mine.
But me and Laura live together,so I'm I'm very up close and
(13:25):
personal with that.
Ms. Boye (13:26):
Right.
And I'm sure that I can imaginethat because you were in a coma
for so long and you had toteach your brain how to do
things again, that you wentthrough all stages of having a
different relationship with yourbody than you did before the
accident.
Adam Griebel (13:42):
Sure.
Sure, exactly.
Ms. Boye (13:45):
And when you and I were chatting earlier this week,
and I asked you to do thisstory, you started to you you
told me about how this piece wasuh a great piece in its own
right, but also it was a uh aseed to starting much bigger
things for both the actual livesgroup, but also you and your
(14:08):
life and dance and the role ofdance in your life and all that.
And I I'd like for us to talkabout that in a minute, but
first, would you be willing toread your story that came from
your experience of meetingMaurice?
Tanya Winters (14:21):
Sure.
This is my story, meetingMaurice.
I met Suzy's friend Maurice ata dance class.
At first glance, he seemedparticularly attached to her.
I wonder if one knows abouthim, I thought.
I reached out to shake hishand.
(14:44):
It was cold and clammy.
His fingers were stiff, yetsmooth and knobby, like the
trunk of a tree.
I wondered if he was aRepublican.
Susie said, grab him by thewrist.
It takes him a while to warmup.
So I gave Maurice's wrist agood squeeze.
(15:05):
It was awkward at first, but Iknew if I could just keep the
faith, Maurice and I would makea connection.
Any friend of Susie's is afriend of mine.
The next few seconds seemed tolurch on.
Finally, Susie and I engaged insome small talk.
(15:25):
Our words went back and forthlike a nursery rhyme.
Row, row, row your boat gentlydown the stream.
I could see how badly Susiewanted Maurice to join the
conversation.
Leaning closer, she said, he'susually not this shy.
He's the life of the party athome.
(15:47):
I followed Susie's lead andleaned in.
I kept a firm, steady grip onMaurice's wrist, as if to say,
Don't worry, you're safe here.
Just when I thought I wasgetting through, Maurice
retreated suddenly.
My whole body jerked forward.
Hold on, Susie said.
(16:09):
Maurice, wait, I thought.
It took every effort I had, butI was able to keep a hold of
Maurice's fingertips and pullhim back into our conversation.
Thanks, Susie said.
I didn't want to leave yet.
Even though I was glad thatMaurice decided to stay, I was
(16:29):
at a loss.
How can I get Maurice to openup?
I can tell he has a lot to say.
Try holding my other arm andlean this way, Susie said.
What if we crossed arms?
Do you think Maurice would bemore comfortable like that?
Let's try it, Susie said.
(16:50):
So we did.
I couldn't believe my eyes.
Maurice opened up and saidhello.
Hello, I said, by moving mythumb to the middle of Maurice's
wrist and giving it a gentlesqueeze.
I spent the next few momentstrying to keep my voice soft and
sweet, slowly but surelystroking his palm and fingers.
(17:14):
It never ceases to amaze me howmuch men respond to sticky
sweetness.
The more we talked, the more weliked each other.
Susie's smile was as big as thesun.
I got the feeling she'd neverseen the sight of him before.
I felt so lucky and blessed tobe a part of this moment with
(17:35):
Susie.
It meant a lot to me, since Iknow how frustrating it can be
not to have full control of yourbody.
In the end, Susie Maurice and Iagreed that we have a lot in
common.
Maybe we'll meet for coffeesometime.
Adam Griebel (17:55):
Fantastic.
I supremely enjoyed hearingthat.
Susie was such an integral partof our community here in
Austin.
Ms. Boye (18:04):
You know, you're right.
And Sonia, what I love aboutthis is I as I'm not a dancer,
not only did it show your sweetinsight into Susie and Maurice
and their their experience andyour connection to the
experience, but it showed, ittook me into your inner world as
a dancer, you know.
I think that your way ofdancing is all about, you know,
(18:28):
responding to each other inhowever that shows up, and that
your choreography is about itcomes up naturally, right?
It's it's like devised in themoment.
Tanya Winters (18:38):
Yeah, for sure.
It's it's all about connectingto the sensation of your of your
own body and then makingrelationships with others.
And I think, you know, that forSusie and I, it was really
powerful to me, you know, I'vebeen living with spasticity all
my life, and you know, I I havemy own relationship with
(19:00):
spasticity, but it was reallycool to be able to feel someone
else's spasticity and develop arelationship with that, you
know, because we get so focusedon our own bodies sometimes, you
know, making relationships andmaking connections with other
(19:21):
people's bodies can teach us alot about ourselves and how we
move, but also let us know thatthat we're in good company.
I think sometimes, you know,when you have a disability, it's
so it can get soindividualized.
How am I feeling?
How's my body responding to me?
(19:42):
Um, how am I getting through myday?
But when you can makeconnections with other people,
particularly when they have asimilar disability as you do, it
can really make you feel safeand not and not alone.
Ms. Boye (19:58):
Yes, you know, we're
Tanya Winters (20:00):
You're not alone.
And that's important.
I think as an advocate, as aperson, as a human, right?
You know, we're social beings.
We need to make we need to makerelationships with other
people.
And I think for me, dancereally helped me do that and
really brought me out of myshow.
Ms. Boye (20:21):
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah.
Tell us how that impacted yourlife at Dance and impacted dance
in Austin.
You telling me the story ofthat.
Tanya Winters (20:32):
This story and Susie's story about Maurice, it
really kickstarted, I believe,body shift and art spark dance.
Because I was just a newdancer.
You know, when Susie and I didthis, I was still taking
classes.
I I hadn't even takendanceability yet.
(20:55):
And I was at ACC relativelynew.
It ended ended up being a atrue foundation to helping me
reach out and challenge myself.
Because sometimes, you know,unless we have a strong
foundation, we may be lesswilling to challenge ourselves
(21:15):
and go beyond our boundaries.
And I think that havingrelationships like this, you
know, having actual wives andSusie as my foundation really
gave me the courage to expandmyself as a dancer.
I don't know if I really wouldhave if I just decided one day
(21:38):
to join up at ACC and I didn'thave actual wives, and I and I
didn't have Susie, you know,with me, because I I really feel
like Susie started as a dancertoo because of this.
We were encouraging each other.
I I don't know if I would havestuck with dance as long as I
(22:01):
did.
If it was just like, oh, youknow, I remember having this
dream of being a dancer.
Let me start with ACC.
Ms. Boye (22:08):
Right.
It became a big thing for Juanand Susie together.
I mean, I remember the firsttime I really ever spoke to
them, Juan was like telling me Iwas trying to practice up my
social skills, I guess, and Iwas asking questions about them
because, you know, that's nevernatural for me, partly because
I'm English and partly just, youknow, because I'm an introvert
or whatever.
(22:29):
And and the first thing he toldme was that he he was a dancer.
That's how he introducedhimself.
And that he worked,particularly with men with
disabilities, to become dancersand let their inner dancer out.
But you mentioned a couple ofthings.
You mentioned um body shift,which I think a lot of people
listening might not know about,and also the kind of training
you did.
Could you just tell us a littlebit of about that before we
(22:51):
move on to something else?
I think it's important thatpeople understand what those
are.
Tanya Winters (22:55):
This this is my understanding, but body shift
was more of the performancegroup of ArtSpark Dance.
Okay.
We started with performance,where we would do these
performances out in public,making sure people saw us.
And then danceability is aninclusive dance method that was
(23:18):
created by Alito Alesi.
It's all about these fourprinciples: sensation,
relationship, time, and design.
It's not even really focused ondisability, it's focused on
(23:40):
getting all bodies of all shapesand sizes into movement.
But when you look at these fourprinciples, what I love about
it is that, you know, we cantake these four principles,
sensation, relationship, time,and design, and we can actually
put them into our real lives.
And we can actually use thesefour principles to engage each
(24:04):
other as humans.
Ms. Boye (24:05):
Oh, that's so cool.
And body shift, I know that oneof the things of body shift is
I can't remember what theperformance, the technical name
for that kind of performance is,but it's it's like street
performance.
I mean, you put yourselves inplaces you didn't like you did
do stage performances, butmostly um I remember seeing you
outside cinemas or at theCapitol or that one piece that
(24:27):
you've done for years where youall sit still and then suddenly
move, I mean, then move reallyslowly, and it's all about being
seen, right?
Not being hidden.
Tanya Winters (24:38):
Yeah, yeah.
It's definitely Body Shift, youknow, not only was it a dance
performance group, but really anadvocacy group, because
everything that we did was outin public and was all about
taking what was happening in theenvironment and bringing
movement into it, but having itbe really natural and spur the
(25:03):
moment.
And because of this, it wasabout advocacy, it was about
disability rights.
We wanted people to see us,right?
You know, we wanted people tosee different bodies moving.
Yeah, it's so important becausewhen we think about disability
and we think about howdisability is portrayed in the
(25:24):
media, where you've got, like,let's say you've got a show
going on, right?
And then you've got that oneperson with the one disability
that just you know flies by thescreen, and and there you go, we
recovered people withdisabilities.
You know, body shift was allabout breaking down those
barriers and being like, we'remore than the one person
(25:46):
shooting through the screen atone time, you know, we're people
and we're here.
Ms. Boye (25:51):
Right.
I remember Susie telling me, ormaybe it was Silver, um, who's
another member, told me aboutpeople with disabilities or
people who show up as differentin the world get really used to
being stared at.
And that idea of deliberatelyputting yourself in a place
where people have to look at youand dance with whatever shows
(26:12):
up with them emotionally.
Jennifer McKinney (26:14):
Well, I was thinking it was beautiful, but
how does this connect to AustinCommunity College, ACC?
Tanya Winters (26:20):
I also wrote a piece called Dancing Queen, and
this was a piece about how Ilove to dance and how I love to
W-sit.
For those of you that don'tknow about W-Sitting, it's
basically where you're you'resitting kind of back, you're not
sitting on your heels, butyou're sitting with your bottom
(26:41):
on the floor and your your kneesand your hips are kind of
they're kind of is it when youyou sit, your feet go back
behind you, so your legs looklike a W?
Yeah.
Ms. Boye (26:52):
Okay.
Tanya Winters (26:53):
Yeah, it's it's kind of like kindergartners
might sit.
But doctors don't like howdon't like how that is.
Okay.
Right?
They don't want you to sit likethat because they don't want
you to dislocate your hips.
So doctors made it so I couldno longer sit like that.
Oh um, they they cut my musclesso that I couldn't sit back
(27:14):
like that.
So I stopped dancing.
Oh no.
And Alison Orr saw this.
Alison Orr is is with a dancecompany called Fork Lip Dance
Works.
And she saw me read this piece,and she's the one who said,
This is a dance piece.
Okay.
And I said, Are you insane?
(27:35):
I I I can't get on the flooranymore.
I can't, Debbie said, How am Igonna do this?
So she encouraged me to startdancing, and because body shift
and art spark dance hadn'tstarted yet, I had to go
somewhere.
So she encouraged me to go toACC.
(27:56):
That is so cool, that's abeautiful story.
Do you still dance?
I do, I love movement.
I'll tell you, I miss elementsand I I miss body shift, and I'm
I'm hoping that we start again.
Jennifer McKinney (28:13):
And that's through Art Spark, Texas.
Tanya Winters (28:16):
Yes, it is through Art Spark.
If Celia is listening rightnow, please bring elements back.
Bring body shift back.
Let's perform again.
Jennifer McKinney (28:27):
Well, that sounds like a very important cry
for help and cry for everyoneto act upon, or at least Celia
and whoever else is involved inbody shift.
Tanya Winters (28:40):
Well, I think it's important.
Body shift and art spark danceis important because you know, a
lot of us with disabilities, wegrew up in physical therapy.
You know, we're so used tophysical therapy, and you know,
that's part of our lives.
But as we age and get older,physical therapy, we don't get
(29:00):
as much of it, right?
Our insurance doesn't pay forit.
Right.
Insurance doesn't cover it asmuch.
Right, right.
So dance is a form of movement,and it it really helps you and
gives you that physical movementthat you may not have
otherwise.
Ms. Boye (29:19):
Yeah, and that that form of dance that you do is so
accessible and will be so goodfor seniors to do, you know, or
anybody to do.
Yeah, because it doesn'trequire taking 15 types of
different classes or learningvery specific moves.
It's about moving with how youmove naturally, right?
Tanya Winters (29:37):
And making that connection, tapping into this
that sensation of how your bodymoves can be so empowering.
Ms. Boye (29:46):
Yeah.
Tanya Winters (29:47):
When you feel that power and you feel your
body making those movements, alot of people with disabilities
or or older people or anybody,you may not know that otherwise.
Jennifer McKinney (30:01):
Yeah.
Well, this has been a veryenlightening conversation.
Yep.
I have one other quick questionfor you that's a little off the
topic, but it's on the topicstill.
First of all, thank you forreading your stories, and of
course, Susie Angel story aswell, and being here today.
(30:23):
Secondly, how would youdescribe yourself in three
words?
Oh man, three words.
Tanya Winters (30:33):
Compassionate, renegade, and advocate.
Jennifer McKinney (30:39):
I like it.
I think just from talking toyou today, that really sums you
up.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Ms. Boye (30:46):
Brilliant.
I like I agree with Jennifer onthat.
Adam Griebel (30:49):
Tanya, I love your presence.
I I I I I'd love to work withyou again and be great.
Tanya Winters (30:56):
Well, we we all know how important actual lives
have been.
I mean, after all these years,I was, you know, only a member
for the last few years, youknow.
Um, but actual lives went onfor so many years and were so
powerful to everybody involved.
Adam Griebel (31:16):
Sure.
Tanya Winters (31:17):
And I mean, still to this day, I think of actual
lives.
I would love to get togetherwith you again, Adam, and and
have a reunion, man.
It would be awesome.
Adam Griebel (31:28):
Sure.
Tanya Winters (31:29):
Yeah.
To just be with everybodyagain, and because we've we've
all changed, but but it's thingslike actual lives and art spark
dance and body shift and allthe programming that ArtSpark
Texas does.
It really helps people andmoves people out of their
shelves and helps them do morein their lives than they ever
(31:53):
thought they could.
Ms. Boye (31:54):
Yeah.
Jennifer McKinney (31:55):
I second that.
ArtSpark Texas is a greatorganization.
And if anyone wants to getinvolved, they can find us at
Artsparktx.org.
Ms. Boye (32:09):
Or find us on Facebook or Instagram.
I want to ask you one lastthing, Tonya.
If you could say something toyour younger self about the role
of dance in your life, or isthere anything you'd like to say
to folks out there who umeither might have their own
Maurice or they have a secretinner dance inside waiting to
come out and they've neverreally had the courage to do it?
Tanya Winters (32:29):
I would tell them now's the time.
Now's the time.
I know that it seems like, youknow, we've got able-bodied
people and then we've gotdisabled people, you know, and
and there's there's this hardline between us, right?
We like to think that waybecause as humans, we like to
(32:50):
put things in boxes and we liketo compartmentalize, right?
Ms. Boye (32:55):
Right.
Tanya Winters (32:55):
But everybody does things a little bit
differently.
Nobody puts their pants on theexact same way, right?
We're all a little bitdifferent.
So don't be afraid to get outthere to try things.
The first time I went to myfirst ACC class, nobody expected
(33:16):
anybody with a disability to bein that class.
I had to just show up.
And the dance teachers werelike, How do we how do we do
this?
Ms. Boye (33:28):
Right.
Tanya Winters (33:28):
How are we supposed to treat you?
I said, honestly, truly, Idon't really know, but we're
gonna figure it out together.
And we did.
So all I can say is show up,show up and do it now.
I mean, don't wait.
Right.
Way to go.
If you're afraid, we all have acircle of support.
(33:50):
We all have those people thatwe go to, you know.
Go to those people, ask themfor support.
But the the first thing youhave to do is push yourself out
of your comfort zone.
Okay, cool.
Jennifer McKinney (34:04):
Well, thank you for coming today and talking
to us and sharing stories.
It it was amazing.
Tanya Winters (34:11):
Yeah, I'm so I'm so happy.
Thank you for inviting me.
It's been wonderful to rememberSusie and to be here with Adam
and just you know rememberactual lives and remember body
shift.
And these are very importanttimes in my life and helped me
(34:32):
be the person I am now.
Adam Griebel (34:34):
Yes, indeed.
Tanya Winters (34:36):
Bye, thank you.
Jennifer McKinney (34:38):
Bye, thank you.
Ms. Boye (34:40):
Ciao.
Jennifer McKinney (34:41):
Bye, thank you.
Ms. Boye (34:43):
You're welcome.
Thank you for listening to thethird season of True Tales by
Disability Advocates Podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,oh, please share it with your
friends and talk about us onsocial media.
If you're feeling particularlyadventurous, consider leaving us
a review on Facebook or even onyour favorite podcast platform.
And of course, don't forget tofollow us on Facebook,
(35:06):
Instagram, and LinkedIn.
Goodbye, everybody, and have awonderful day.
Kurt Wilkinson (35:12):
Thank you, Miss Boy.
I'm very glad that I can helprevive this podcast that meant
so much to you.
I bet you would be proud.
Goodbye.
Kamand Alaghehband (35:24):
All episodes of the True Tales by Disability
Advocate Podcast are free onApple Podcasts, Spotify, and
anywhere you get your podcasts.
Kristen Gooch (35:45):
To learn more about the Speaking Advocates
program, sign up for ournewsletter at artspartex.org.
That's A R T S P A R K T S dotO R T
Welcome to True Tales by Disability Advocates
Podcast, authentic voices ofpeople thriving with
disabilities, where individualsuse the art of storytelling to
change the world.
John Beer (00:22):
The True Tales by Disability Advocates Podcast is
produced by Arts Park TexasSpeaking Advocates Program.
A free virtual training is opento people of all disabilities,
no matter where you live.
Kamand Alaghehband (00:35):
Keep listening to hear how life's
challenges can spark the desireto speak out and advocate for
yourself and others.
Kurt Wilkinson (01:06):
But I am sad to say that she could not finish it
because Miss Boy passed away inNovember of 2024.
We at Artspark Texas apologizefor this unplanned hiatus.
We have decided to continue thepodcast and finish season three
over a year later out ofrespect for the work Miss Boy
(01:32):
put into this podcast and thepassion she had for disability
advocacy.
This will be Miss Boy's lastepisode, but our next episode
will contain a full tribute tothe life of Miss Boy and others
that we have recently lost.
But for now, presenting thisepisode of the True Tales by
(01:55):
Disability Advocates Podcast, Igive you the late Miss Boy.
Ms. Boye (02:01):
Hello, you're listening to the True Tales by
Disability Advocates Podcast,Changing the World One Story at
a Time.
This is the show whereadvocates harness the power of
storytelling to build communitywith their peers and develop
empathy in others.
Hello everyone.
I'm Miss Boy.
I'm Jennifer McKinney.
(02:21):
I'm Adam Griebel.
And we are your hosts forseason three.
I had so much fun recordingthat session with Juan.
Big part of his life was hiswife, Suzy, Susie Angel, and I
(02:41):
really wanted to have some wayof honoring her.
And when we recorded thatepisode, it was too fresh for
Juan to talk about it much,quite understandably.
Sure, sure.
Yeah.
So one of the things that mademe think of our guests is that
I've been watching theParalympics.
And I don't know if y'all sawthe opening ceremony.
(03:04):
So much of that ceremony wasthis awesome dance routines.
I just loved them.
They were just awesome.
And the commentator was talkingabout how the choreographer
said that he didn't want to dochoreography that included
people with disabilities.
He wanted to do choreographythat couldn't have been done
without people withdisabilities.
Adam Griebel (03:24):
Yeah, that sounds great.
Ms. Boye (03:26):
Yeah, it was really cool.
And whenever I see dance likethat, I think of people like our
next guest because I think ofher and Susie as dancers,
because they are.
That's how they are it filed inmy brain.
And she is the perfect exampleof the philosophy of inclusive
dance.
(03:46):
Adam, you know this guest,right?
And you knew Susie?
Adam Griebel (03:51):
Yes.
Yes, I did.
Ms. Boye (03:53):
What did you think about it?
Adam Griebel (03:55):
Well, I always wanted, uh I would have enjoyed
performing with Susie, but I Isaw them perform, but was never
able to actually perform withher.
Mm-hmm.
Ms. Boye (04:07):
Yeah, she was really funny, right?
Adam Griebel (04:09):
Beautiful person, funny.
Ms. Boye (04:11):
Yeah, brilliant writer.
Jennifer McKinney (04:13):
The next story is one of hers, and it
really demonstrates both ofthose things.
Ms. Boye (04:19):
Absolutely.
I mean, it didn't feel right tohave a season honoring actual
live stories without thisparticular story.
And our next guest was theperfect person to read it for
us.
Before we completely introduceyou to her, I'm gonna read from
her Facebook page.
It says, I'm fun, loving, anddown to earth.
I love to laugh.
In fact, I'm a littleeccentric.
(04:40):
I enjoy giving back to mycommunity.
I love dance, art, and acting.
I'm compassionate anddetermined.
I enjoy the simple things inlife.
I enjoy helping people believein themselves.
Adam Griebel (04:53):
Perfect! This is gonna be fun.
Get ready.
Here's some words of wisdomfrom today's storyteller.
Tanya Winters.
Jennifer McKinney (05:03):
Welcome, Tanya.
Thanks for joining us today.
Oh, I'm so excited to be here.
Tanya Winters (05:09):
Thanks for having me.
Jennifer McKinney (05:11):
Also, thank you for being willing to step up
and allow us to bring Susie'sstory to life.
I know the anniversary of herdeath was a couple weeks ago,
and that's always a time ofmixed emotions.
So we really do appreciate youhaving the courage to say yes
and this chance to honor Susieand her work.
Tanya Winters (05:34):
Well, you know, I was just thinking about Susie.
You know, I've been thinkingabout her a lot, and she was a
huge part of my life.
You know, her one and myself, Ireally thought we were like the
three musketeers, and you know,we really helped each other
out.
So this is just great to beable to just honor her and be
(05:59):
the person to read her story.
She was such a great writer andsuch a fierce advocate, a
wonderful dancer, and I miss herterribly.
So this is good for me and helpmy soul.
Ms. Boye (06:11):
Wonderful.
I'm so glad about that.
And I'm so grateful that yousaid yeah to this idea uh that
we had, because I agree witheverything you said about that.
Adam Griebel (06:22):
Are you ready to read Susie's story, Maurice?
Tanya Winters (06:27):
Yes, I'm gonna do the best I can.
Ms. Boye (06:30):
It's okay if you get emotional because you know we do
real here.
So nobody has to mask anythinghere.
Tanya Winters (06:37):
Well, I've I've actually been talking to Susie
all morning.
Ms. Boye (06:41):
Yay.
Tanya Winters (06:42):
I've asked her, I'm I told her I was like, I'm
channeling you.
You better help me throughthis.
So I know she's here with meright now.
Jennifer McKinney (06:51):
That's beautiful.
Adam Griebel (06:54):
Great! Stay with us for Maurice by the late Suzy
Angel, read to us by her friendand fellow dance revolutionary
Tanya Winters.
Tanya Winters (07:07):
I'm Tanya Winters, and this is Maurice by
my dear, dear friend, SusieAngel.
The most complicated part of mybody is my right arm.
It seems as though it has amind of its own, and it's
getting more and more rebelliousas I get older.
(07:27):
I started really noticing thisabout five years ago.
One day, when my right arm haddone too many things without my
permission, my attendant Marydecided to name it Maurice.
The earliest stunt that I canrecall him pulling was when I
was six months old.
(07:49):
I was taking a nap in my crib.
All of a sudden, mom heardblood curdling cries coming from
my room and ran to see what waswrong.
Maurice had his fingersentangled in my hair and was
pulling as hard as he could.
One night, I accidentallyrolled over onto my back, and
(08:14):
Maurice decided to quabble Juanright across the face at 5
o'clock in the morning.
I didn't even feel him do it.
All I knew was that for somereason Juan was asking me what
he did wrong.
I was getting clothes out ofone of my drawers one morning
(08:34):
and Maurice decided to reach upand hit my alarm clock.
Other times I'll be organizingthings or folding the piece of
paper with my other hand andorfeet, and I'll have Maurice
tucked behind my back so wecan't do anything.
If I'm sitting on the floordoing things, Maurice will reach
(08:58):
out and knock over whatever ison the floor or grab something.
I used to get frustrated whenmy right arm would do things
like this because it made mefeel so out of control of my own
body.
Now that I have a name for it,things are different.
It's almost as though I alwayshave a little kid with me, and
(09:22):
he's always testing me to seehow far I'll let him go.
Adam Griebel (09:28):
That was a good story.
Ms. Boye (09:30):
It is.
I love that story.
Having known Susie, I can justimagine that happening, and I I
love the idea of having a pieceof yourself that doesn't behave
the way you want and naming it.
And I actually just saw a thingon the Paralympics where they
interviewed a whole load ofpeople who have short arms.
One arm is short, and um theywere asking all these different
(09:52):
people, like from kids toadults, do you have a name for
your arm?
And some of them were likeNubby or My Baby Hand.
You know, it was reallyinteresting that uh so many
people do that, you know, sure.
And it makes total sense to me.
Tanya Winters (10:04):
Yeah, I mean, it's so awesome to be able to
read that story because I I Ijust I have a picture of Maurice
in my mind now, and I can justremember all the things that he
would do.
And me myself, I tend to thinkof my body almost as another
(10:28):
part of my personality, and I'mconstantly talking to myself,
you know, trying to likeencourage that brain-body
connection or helping my brainout.
And it's so important to nameit, yeah, to talk to it, because
it really does help, yeah, helpyou get through the way.
Ms. Boye (10:50):
I think that's part of like I'm in recovery, and you
know, like naming my addict as apart of me, not separate from
me, but a separate part of methat doesn't have to be in
control that you can control wasa big part of you know, coming
to terms with who I am.
Jennifer McKinney (11:04):
I think on some level I can relate to this
story really well because I havelike no hand-eye coordination,
being visually impaired, yeah,exactly.
And as a result, there are daysthat I'll knock into
everything, drop something, orboth, and it's just ridiculous.
It just happens.
(11:25):
So this story touches me thatway, yeah.
Ms. Boye (11:29):
And I would guess that part of your growing upness is
like rather than get annoyed atyourself, is going, all right,
here we go again, you know, andbeing at peace with it.
Tanya Winters (11:40):
Yes, definitely.
Well, you know, Susie and I hadthe same disability.
We we both have cerebral palsy,and you know, we were both very
spastic, you know, our muscleswere very tight.
And you know, her and I bothknew that spasticity can be your
best friend and your worstenemy all kind of rolled up into
(12:03):
one.
Right.
And the worst thing you can dois get frustrated with yourself.
You you have to find ways todistract yourself, make jokes
about it.
Sure, sure, you know, um inorder to to you know just to
deal with it, you know.
Ms. Boye (12:21):
Yeah, yeah.
I I feel like that too about myADHD or my autism, like not be
ashamed of it or angry atmyself, whether it's your
situation or my situation orJennifer's situation, you can
walk around with so much shameif you can't make friends with
it.
Tanya Winters (12:37):
Gotta accept who you are.
Well, let's face it, you know,having a disability, quite
frankly, is a pain in the asssometimes.
And it's it's really hard, youknow, and it's okay to say that.
And God knows we've allscreamed it more than once in
our lives, but you know, wecan't stay there.
Ms. Boye (12:57):
Yeah.
Tanya Winters (12:58):
You know, because it's just a time suck.
Adam Griebel (13:00):
Yeah.
Tanya Winters (13:01):
And it doesn't really help you.
Adam Griebel (13:03):
Material life is a pain in the butt.
I have I I I have a tremor andI have physical things like
that, not nearly as profound aspeople with more physical
disabilities than mine.
But me and Laura live together,so I'm I'm very up close and
(13:25):
personal with that.
Ms. Boye (13:26):
Right.
And I'm sure that I can imaginethat because you were in a coma
for so long and you had toteach your brain how to do
things again, that you wentthrough all stages of having a
different relationship with yourbody than you did before the
accident.
Adam Griebel (13:42):
Sure.
Sure, exactly.
Ms. Boye (13:45):
And when you and I were chatting earlier this week,
and I asked you to do thisstory, you started to you you
told me about how this piece wasuh a great piece in its own
right, but also it was a uh aseed to starting much bigger
things for both the actual livesgroup, but also you and your
(14:08):
life and dance and the role ofdance in your life and all that.
And I I'd like for us to talkabout that in a minute, but
first, would you be willing toread your story that came from
your experience of meetingMaurice?
Tanya Winters (14:21):
Sure.
This is my story, meetingMaurice.
I met Suzy's friend Maurice ata dance class.
At first glance, he seemedparticularly attached to her.
I wonder if one knows abouthim, I thought.
I reached out to shake hishand.
(14:44):
It was cold and clammy.
His fingers were stiff, yetsmooth and knobby, like the
trunk of a tree.
I wondered if he was aRepublican.
Susie said, grab him by thewrist.
It takes him a while to warmup.
So I gave Maurice's wrist agood squeeze.
(15:05):
It was awkward at first, but Iknew if I could just keep the
faith, Maurice and I would makea connection.
Any friend of Susie's is afriend of mine.
The next few seconds seemed tolurch on.
Finally, Susie and I engaged insome small talk.
(15:25):
Our words went back and forthlike a nursery rhyme.
Row, row, row your boat gentlydown the stream.
I could see how badly Susiewanted Maurice to join the
conversation.
Leaning closer, she said, he'susually not this shy.
He's the life of the party athome.
(15:47):
I followed Susie's lead andleaned in.
I kept a firm, steady grip onMaurice's wrist, as if to say,
Don't worry, you're safe here.
Just when I thought I wasgetting through, Maurice
retreated suddenly.
My whole body jerked forward.
Hold on, Susie said.
(16:09):
Maurice, wait, I thought.
It took every effort I had, butI was able to keep a hold of
Maurice's fingertips and pullhim back into our conversation.
Thanks, Susie said.
I didn't want to leave yet.
Even though I was glad thatMaurice decided to stay, I was
(16:29):
at a loss.
How can I get Maurice to openup?
I can tell he has a lot to say.
Try holding my other arm andlean this way, Susie said.
What if we crossed arms?
Do you think Maurice would bemore comfortable like that?
Let's try it, Susie said.
(16:50):
So we did.
I couldn't believe my eyes.
Maurice opened up and saidhello.
Hello, I said, by moving mythumb to the middle of Maurice's
wrist and giving it a gentlesqueeze.
I spent the next few momentstrying to keep my voice soft and
sweet, slowly but surelystroking his palm and fingers.
(17:14):
It never ceases to amaze me howmuch men respond to sticky
sweetness.
The more we talked, the more weliked each other.
Susie's smile was as big as thesun.
I got the feeling she'd neverseen the sight of him before.
I felt so lucky and blessed tobe a part of this moment with
(17:35):
Susie.
It meant a lot to me, since Iknow how frustrating it can be
not to have full control of yourbody.
In the end, Susie Maurice and Iagreed that we have a lot in
common.
Maybe we'll meet for coffeesometime.
Adam Griebel (17:55):
Fantastic.
I supremely enjoyed hearingthat.
Susie was such an integral partof our community here in
Austin.
Ms. Boye (18:04):
You know, you're right.
And Sonia, what I love aboutthis is I as I'm not a dancer,
not only did it show your sweetinsight into Susie and Maurice
and their their experience andyour connection to the
experience, but it showed, ittook me into your inner world as
a dancer, you know.
I think that your way ofdancing is all about, you know,
(18:28):
responding to each other inhowever that shows up, and that
your choreography is about itcomes up naturally, right?
It's it's like devised in themoment.
Tanya Winters (18:38):
Yeah, for sure.
It's it's all about connectingto the sensation of your of your
own body and then makingrelationships with others.
And I think, you know, that forSusie and I, it was really
powerful to me, you know, I'vebeen living with spasticity all
my life, and you know, I I havemy own relationship with
(19:00):
spasticity, but it was reallycool to be able to feel someone
else's spasticity and develop arelationship with that, you
know, because we get so focusedon our own bodies sometimes, you
know, making relationships andmaking connections with other
(19:21):
people's bodies can teach us alot about ourselves and how we
move, but also let us know thatthat we're in good company.
I think sometimes, you know,when you have a disability, it's
so it can get soindividualized.
How am I feeling?
How's my body responding to me?
(19:42):
Um, how am I getting through myday?
But when you can makeconnections with other people,
particularly when they have asimilar disability as you do, it
can really make you feel safeand not and not alone.
Ms. Boye (19:58):
Yes, you know, we're
Tanya Winters (20:00):
You're not alone.
And that's important.
I think as an advocate, as aperson, as a human, right?
You know, we're social beings.
We need to make we need to makerelationships with other
people.
And I think for me, dancereally helped me do that and
really brought me out of myshow.
Ms. Boye (20:21):
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah.
Tell us how that impacted yourlife at Dance and impacted dance
in Austin.
You telling me the story ofthat.
Tanya Winters (20:32):
This story and Susie's story about Maurice, it
really kickstarted, I believe,body shift and art spark dance.
Because I was just a newdancer.
You know, when Susie and I didthis, I was still taking
classes.
I I hadn't even takendanceability yet.
(20:55):
And I was at ACC relativelynew.
It ended ended up being a atrue foundation to helping me
reach out and challenge myself.
Because sometimes, you know,unless we have a strong
foundation, we may be lesswilling to challenge ourselves
(21:15):
and go beyond our boundaries.
And I think that havingrelationships like this, you
know, having actual wives andSusie as my foundation really
gave me the courage to expandmyself as a dancer.
I don't know if I really wouldhave if I just decided one day
(21:38):
to join up at ACC and I didn'thave actual wives, and I and I
didn't have Susie, you know,with me, because I I really feel
like Susie started as a dancertoo because of this.
We were encouraging each other.
I I don't know if I would havestuck with dance as long as I
(22:01):
did.
If it was just like, oh, youknow, I remember having this
dream of being a dancer.
Let me start with ACC.
Ms. Boye (22:08):
Right.
It became a big thing for Juanand Susie together.
I mean, I remember the firsttime I really ever spoke to
them, Juan was like telling me Iwas trying to practice up my
social skills, I guess, and Iwas asking questions about them
because, you know, that's nevernatural for me, partly because
I'm English and partly just, youknow, because I'm an introvert
or whatever.
(22:29):
And and the first thing he toldme was that he he was a dancer.
That's how he introducedhimself.
And that he worked,particularly with men with
disabilities, to become dancersand let their inner dancer out.
But you mentioned a couple ofthings.
You mentioned um body shift,which I think a lot of people
listening might not know about,and also the kind of training
you did.
Could you just tell us a littlebit of about that before we
(22:51):
move on to something else?
I think it's important thatpeople understand what those
are.
Tanya Winters (22:55):
This this is my understanding, but body shift
was more of the performancegroup of ArtSpark Dance.
Okay.
We started with performance,where we would do these
performances out in public,making sure people saw us.
And then danceability is aninclusive dance method that was
(23:18):
created by Alito Alesi.
It's all about these fourprinciples: sensation,
relationship, time, and design.
It's not even really focused ondisability, it's focused on
(23:40):
getting all bodies of all shapesand sizes into movement.
But when you look at these fourprinciples, what I love about
it is that, you know, we cantake these four principles,
sensation, relationship, time,and design, and we can actually
put them into our real lives.
And we can actually use thesefour principles to engage each
(24:04):
other as humans.
Ms. Boye (24:05):
Oh, that's so cool.
And body shift, I know that oneof the things of body shift is
I can't remember what theperformance, the technical name
for that kind of performance is,but it's it's like street
performance.
I mean, you put yourselves inplaces you didn't like you did
do stage performances, butmostly um I remember seeing you
outside cinemas or at theCapitol or that one piece that
(24:27):
you've done for years where youall sit still and then suddenly
move, I mean, then move reallyslowly, and it's all about being
seen, right?
Not being hidden.
Tanya Winters (24:38):
Yeah, yeah.
It's definitely Body Shift, youknow, not only was it a dance
performance group, but really anadvocacy group, because
everything that we did was outin public and was all about
taking what was happening in theenvironment and bringing
movement into it, but having itbe really natural and spur the
(25:03):
moment.
And because of this, it wasabout advocacy, it was about
disability rights.
We wanted people to see us,right?
You know, we wanted people tosee different bodies moving.
Yeah, it's so important becausewhen we think about disability
and we think about howdisability is portrayed in the
(25:24):
media, where you've got, like,let's say you've got a show
going on, right?
And then you've got that oneperson with the one disability
that just you know flies by thescreen, and and there you go, we
recovered people withdisabilities.
You know, body shift was allabout breaking down those
barriers and being like, we'remore than the one person
(25:46):
shooting through the screen atone time, you know, we're people
and we're here.
Ms. Boye (25:51):
Right.
I remember Susie telling me, ormaybe it was Silver, um, who's
another member, told me aboutpeople with disabilities or
people who show up as differentin the world get really used to
being stared at.
And that idea of deliberatelyputting yourself in a place
where people have to look at youand dance with whatever shows
(26:12):
up with them emotionally.
Jennifer McKinney (26:14):
Well, I was thinking it was beautiful, but
how does this connect to AustinCommunity College, ACC?
Tanya Winters (26:20):
I also wrote a piece called Dancing Queen, and
this was a piece about how Ilove to dance and how I love to
W-sit.
For those of you that don'tknow about W-Sitting, it's
basically where you're you'resitting kind of back, you're not
sitting on your heels, butyou're sitting with your bottom
(26:41):
on the floor and your your kneesand your hips are kind of
they're kind of is it when youyou sit, your feet go back
behind you, so your legs looklike a W?
Yeah.
Ms. Boye (26:52):
Okay.
Tanya Winters (26:53):
Yeah, it's it's kind of like kindergartners
might sit.
But doctors don't like howdon't like how that is.
Okay.
Right?
They don't want you to sit likethat because they don't want
you to dislocate your hips.
So doctors made it so I couldno longer sit like that.
Oh um, they they cut my musclesso that I couldn't sit back
(27:14):
like that.
So I stopped dancing.
Oh no.
And Alison Orr saw this.
Alison Orr is is with a dancecompany called Fork Lip Dance
Works.
And she saw me read this piece,and she's the one who said,
This is a dance piece.
Okay.
And I said, Are you insane?
(27:35):
I I I can't get on the flooranymore.
I can't, Debbie said, How am Igonna do this?
So she encouraged me to startdancing, and because body shift
and art spark dance hadn'tstarted yet, I had to go
somewhere.
So she encouraged me to go toACC.
(27:56):
That is so cool, that's abeautiful story.
Do you still dance?
I do, I love movement.
I'll tell you, I miss elementsand I I miss body shift, and I'm
I'm hoping that we start again.
Jennifer McKinney (28:13):
And that's through Art Spark, Texas.
Tanya Winters (28:16):
Yes, it is through Art Spark.
If Celia is listening rightnow, please bring elements back.
Bring body shift back.
Let's perform again.
Jennifer McKinney (28:27):
Well, that sounds like a very important cry
for help and cry for everyoneto act upon, or at least Celia
and whoever else is involved inbody shift.
Tanya Winters (28:40):
Well, I think it's important.
Body shift and art spark danceis important because you know, a
lot of us with disabilities, wegrew up in physical therapy.
You know, we're so used tophysical therapy, and you know,
that's part of our lives.
But as we age and get older,physical therapy, we don't get
(29:00):
as much of it, right?
Our insurance doesn't pay forit.
Right.
Insurance doesn't cover it asmuch.
Right, right.
So dance is a form of movement,and it it really helps you and
gives you that physical movementthat you may not have
otherwise.
Ms. Boye (29:19):
Yeah, and that that form of dance that you do is so
accessible and will be so goodfor seniors to do, you know, or
anybody to do.
Yeah, because it doesn'trequire taking 15 types of
different classes or learningvery specific moves.
It's about moving with how youmove naturally, right?
Tanya Winters (29:37):
And making that connection, tapping into this
that sensation of how your bodymoves can be so empowering.
Ms. Boye (29:46):
Yeah.
Tanya Winters (29:47):
When you feel that power and you feel your
body making those movements, alot of people with disabilities
or or older people or anybody,you may not know that otherwise.
Jennifer McKinney (30:01):
Yeah.
Well, this has been a veryenlightening conversation.
Yep.
I have one other quick questionfor you that's a little off the
topic, but it's on the topicstill.
First of all, thank you forreading your stories, and of
course, Susie Angel story aswell, and being here today.
(30:23):
Secondly, how would youdescribe yourself in three
words?
Oh man, three words.
Tanya Winters (30:33):
Compassionate, renegade, and advocate.
Jennifer McKinney (30:39):
I like it.
I think just from talking toyou today, that really sums you
up.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Ms. Boye (30:46):
Brilliant.
I like I agree with Jennifer onthat.
Adam Griebel (30:49):
Tanya, I love your presence.
I I I I I'd love to work withyou again and be great.
Tanya Winters (30:56):
Well, we we all know how important actual lives
have been.
I mean, after all these years,I was, you know, only a member
for the last few years, youknow.
Um, but actual lives went onfor so many years and were so
powerful to everybody involved.
Adam Griebel (31:16):
Sure.
Tanya Winters (31:17):
And I mean, still to this day, I think of actual
lives.
I would love to get togetherwith you again, Adam, and and
have a reunion, man.
It would be awesome.
Adam Griebel (31:28):
Sure.
Tanya Winters (31:29):
Yeah.
To just be with everybodyagain, and because we've we've
all changed, but but it's thingslike actual lives and art spark
dance and body shift and allthe programming that ArtSpark
Texas does.
It really helps people andmoves people out of their
shelves and helps them do morein their lives than they ever
(31:53):
thought they could.
Ms. Boye (31:54):
Yeah.
Jennifer McKinney (31:55):
I second that.
ArtSpark Texas is a greatorganization.
And if anyone wants to getinvolved, they can find us at
Artsparktx.org.
Ms. Boye (32:09):
Or find us on Facebook or Instagram.
I want to ask you one lastthing, Tonya.
If you could say something toyour younger self about the role
of dance in your life, or isthere anything you'd like to say
to folks out there who umeither might have their own
Maurice or they have a secretinner dance inside waiting to
come out and they've neverreally had the courage to do it?
Tanya Winters (32:29):
I would tell them now's the time.
Now's the time.
I know that it seems like, youknow, we've got able-bodied
people and then we've gotdisabled people, you know, and
and there's there's this hardline between us, right?
We like to think that waybecause as humans, we like to
(32:50):
put things in boxes and we liketo compartmentalize, right?
Ms. Boye (32:55):
Right.
Tanya Winters (32:55):
But everybody does things a little bit
differently.
Nobody puts their pants on theexact same way, right?
We're all a little bitdifferent.
So don't be afraid to get outthere to try things.
The first time I went to myfirst ACC class, nobody expected
(33:16):
anybody with a disability to bein that class.
I had to just show up.
And the dance teachers werelike, How do we how do we do
this?
Ms. Boye (33:28):
Right.
Tanya Winters (33:28):
How are we supposed to treat you?
I said, honestly, truly, Idon't really know, but we're
gonna figure it out together.
And we did.
So all I can say is show up,show up and do it now.
I mean, don't wait.
Right.
Way to go.
If you're afraid, we all have acircle of support.
(33:50):
We all have those people thatwe go to, you know.
Go to those people, ask themfor support.
But the the first thing youhave to do is push yourself out
of your comfort zone.
Okay, cool.
Jennifer McKinney (34:04):
Well, thank you for coming today and talking
to us and sharing stories.
It it was amazing.
Tanya Winters (34:11):
Yeah, I'm so I'm so happy.
Thank you for inviting me.
It's been wonderful to rememberSusie and to be here with Adam
and just you know rememberactual lives and remember body
shift.
And these are very importanttimes in my life and helped me
(34:32):
be the person I am now.
Adam Griebel (34:34):
Yes, indeed.
Tanya Winters (34:36):
Bye, thank you.
Jennifer McKinney (34:38):
Bye, thank you.
Ms. Boye (34:40):
Ciao.
Jennifer McKinney (34:41):
Bye, thank you.
Ms. Boye (34:43):
You're welcome.
Thank you for listening to thethird season of True Tales by
Disability Advocates Podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,oh, please share it with your
friends and talk about us onsocial media.
If you're feeling particularlyadventurous, consider leaving us
a review on Facebook or even onyour favorite podcast platform.
And of course, don't forget tofollow us on Facebook,
(35:06):
Instagram, and LinkedIn.
Goodbye, everybody, and have awonderful day.
Kurt Wilkinson (35:12):
Thank you, Miss Boy.
I'm very glad that I can helprevive this podcast that meant
so much to you.
I bet you would be proud.
Goodbye.
Kamand Alaghehband (35:24):
All episodes of the True Tales by Disability
Advocate Podcast are free onApple Podcasts, Spotify, and
anywhere you get your podcasts.
Kristen Gooch (35:45):
To learn more about the Speaking Advocates
program, sign up for ournewsletter at artspartex.org.
That's A R T S P A R K T S dotO R T
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.