Ep 17 - Masters Pt. 3: The Rerecordings (+ 5 Stages of Heartbreak Playlists)

We wrap up the timeline of the Masters that started in Pt. 2 and focus primarily on the events that occurred from 2021-2024 (i.e. the Rerecordings). We also discuss the surprise drop of 5 official Apple Music playlists by Taylor that represent the 5 stages of heartbreak (based on a fan theory that TTPD would mirror the 5 stages of grief). We end the episode by wrapping up our TTPD draft picks in prep for the album's release on April 19!

Follow us on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube [Our handle: @tspodnetwork] 

For more of TSPN, visit our website at www.tspodnetwork.com

Episode Transcript

(00:07):
Hey lovers, welcome to TSPN. All right, so todaywe've got a lot to cover. We are going to start
by finishing the timeline for the master's re-recordingdebacle, right? So we released a two hour long
episode which is labeled the master's part twowhere Jesse got from about the sale of the

(00:31):
masters all the way up until the end of 2020.So we can do like a. quick little recap on
some of the hot touch points there. And thenwe're gonna get right into the timeline so
that we can finish that out for you. We arealso going to talk about the Apple playlist
drop that Taylor did this past weekend withthe Tortured Poets department coming out here

(00:52):
in a little bit less than two weeks. And I dowanna say with that, that just happened a few
days ago. We are recording on Monday, April8th. So happy solar eclipse day. Um, but we
are, we've got a lot coming up this next week.So obviously the torture poet's department,
Jesse and I are going to be in South Carolina.We've got, um, to finish the lyrical analysis.

(01:16):
So there's a lot happening. So if anything dropsspecific like the Apple music playlist that
Taylor dropped over the weekend. and we do notcover it on the pod. Check out our TikToks.
Jessie Swift Talk does a lot. We'll maybe postsome to the TS Pod Network TikTok, but it's
gonna be really hard for Jessie and I to keepup with all the action that's about to unroll,

(01:38):
especially as we come up to the album release,right? Like we expect almost every day there
will probably be something. There was even somestuff today with the typewriter potential lyrics
being released. So... Just know that our episodesare not gonna be the most up to date with that
level of detail. So if you're like, oh my gosh,I'm dying to know what Anna or Jesse has to
say about X, Y, or Z, we'll do our best in thenext couple of weeks to try and be posting

(02:01):
more actively to TikTok, just so that you guyscan get that without it being a week behind
when it actually occurred. And then the finalthing that we're going to cover today after
we talk about the Apple Music playlist and someof the things with TTPD is we're going to finish
out our Tortured Poets Department draft. I'mreally excited about this. And so what we'll

(02:22):
do is we will finish it out for you. And thenthat way on Friday, April 19th, when the album
comes out, we will have all of those ready foryou to vote on the website. Once you listen
to the album and you actually have a judgmenton how good these songs are, you're gonna choose
between Jessie or I, which one of us has thebetter team. And then real quick, before we

(02:42):
get into the masters, I do wanna announce thaton April 19th, we will have a very special
guest. KJ Miller will be joining us and we areactually recording that here soon. So we are
going to do a ton of fun background with her.If you don't follow KJ yet on TikTok, she has
grown a huge following. She does a lot withBeyonce. She even did the series like Beyonce

(03:06):
for Swifties, which is like really helpful whereshe breaks it down like as if we're learning
about Beyonce in the same way that a lot ofSwiftie creators treat Taylor's work. And she's
gonna come on and this is her first really rolloutof a new album as a Swiftie. So not only will
we hear her story of becoming a Swiftie andreally blowing up on TikTok surrounding some

(03:26):
of her lyrical analysis and things she was doingearly on with Taylor's work, but this is her
first time with a Taylor album, right? So we'regonna have a little party. We're gonna celebrate
tortured poets. And so obviously that will bea little bit prerecorded. So when you're listening
on the album release day, that will be a prerecordedepisode, but we're really hoping to jam pack

(03:46):
it with fun and just celebrate the launch ofthe album with you on that Friday. And then
of course, Jessie and I leading after the albumrelease, we'll have plenty of other, you know,
reaction footage, lyrical analysis. Like we'regonna be slaving away for you guys once the
album's out. So just kind of hang tight as weget through these next few weeks, but without

(04:09):
further ado. we've got a jam-packed episodefor today. So before we get started though
with the Masters, Jesse, let's give a littleupdate on Hazel, because for those who have
been following along, we had to skip a weekhere with this Masters part one, part two.
So if you're going back, you gotta go back acouple of weeks to kind of get caught up. But
last week, Jesse was out because her dog. wassick. So do you want to give us a quick update

(04:33):
on how Hazel's doing and how you're doing overall?Oh my goodness. Yes. Well, shout out to you,
Anna, because you did a fabulous job coveringby yourself. I feel so bad. I was just not
in the right space to record. We literally hadabout 48 hours where we did not know if she
was going to make it or not. And she's onlytwo, two and a half years old. She's a golden

(04:55):
doodle and she's my baby. She's my dog. Yeah,I won't get into all the gory details, but
she just, it happened so suddenly and so fastand she was coughing up stuff she should not
be coughing up out of her lungs. No signs orsymptoms prior. We took her to the emergency

(05:16):
vet, barely made it. She wasn't even walking.And they saved her life. She made almost a
full recovery. So she is hoarse, like her voiceis like hoarse when she barks. Other than that,
she's coughing a little bit with nothing comingup. She's on lots of medications. She had what

(05:39):
they think is a bacterial pneumonia. So it wasso scary. I've never seen anything like it
in my life. It was terrifying. She was in theemergency room for two nights, I think, two
or three nights. And we got to visit her, butshe was very lethargic. And now she's probably,

(06:02):
I'd say, 95% back to herself. So thank God.Thank you for all of your love and support
too. I got so many messages and oh, it just,yeah. Yeah. Well, and honestly, the lovers
can wait on the Masters Part 3. Everyone wasvery gracious and yeah, there may be times

(06:23):
where I have something going on and it's a lastminute thing. So we appreciate all the love
Ultimately, the show must go on. So I kind ofgot tired of my own voice after doing a whole
60 minutes editing back a whole 60 minutes.I'm glad you're back so that it's, you know,
split a little bit here. All right, great. Well,let's get started with the masters part three

(06:47):
here. Okay, so If you guys watched, we've donea couple parts of this already. The first time
I started talking about it, I talked about thedifference between Scott Borschetta and Scooter
Braun. And then we just went into kind of themeat and bones of what happened to Taylor's

(07:07):
masters, why doesn't she own them and why isshe re-recording? I really just did a one-on-one
on all that. So. we kind of got to the pointof it was a lot of back and forth. So there's
a lot of back and forth going on between ScottBorsetta, Scooter Braun and Big Machine Records,

(07:28):
and then Taylor Swift and her camp and her wantingto own her own masters, them telling her no,
them trying to get her to sign an NDA that shedid not want to sign. It's a lot. So I would
suggest you guys go back and look at, watchthat before. you listen to this part because
it might be kind of confusing. So I left offon her releasing Evermore, December 11th, 2020.

(07:54):
So April 9th of 2021, Taylor releases the firstre-record. So that would be Fearless TV. I
think she released Fearless, Taylor's versionfirst to kind of say or show everyone that,
hey, I'm Fearless and I'm going to do this.That was kind of what I got from that, the

(08:14):
symbolic nature of that release. Um, yep. Fearlessleader, you know? Um, also at this point in
time, remember Scooter Braun was toting aroundher masters around town, trying to sell them
and telling people that she's bluffing. She'snot going to do it. She's not going to rerecord

(08:36):
to try to get them unloaded because he knewshe'd rerecord. Was this the same time though?
Wait, wait, you're talking about April of 2021was when Fearless or was that in 2020? He sold
them off again in October of 2020. So he didsuccessfully sell them. I should clarify that
he successfully sold them off, but as he wassaying she wasn't going to rerecord, he did

(09:01):
not think she'd do it. So she kind of calledit. So her decision to start with Fearless
and all of that was before he had the abilityto sell them to Shamrock. Yep, yep, yep. That
makes sense. Yep. And Fearless did really well.I mean, Fearless Taylor's version did really
well. What I think it did ultimately is getpeople really excited for the other ones. Because

(09:23):
if you, I don't remember as much hype aboutFearless TV coming out as I do like Red TV
and then Speak Now TV and you know, 89 TV. Likeit just got bigger and bigger and bigger. Well,
people didn't really know what to expect either.And I actually love that she started with Fearless,
which is her second album. So just kind of thinkingthrough, like, are these going to sound the

(09:45):
same? Is she going to sound the same? Is shegoing to mix it up? Is it going to be kind
of a new version? And so going that far backin her catalog and just showing like, no, I'm
going to stick to the original production andtry and mirror a lot of the same vocals, kind
of set the tone for us. And then the vault tracks,too. I don't know that we really realized.

(10:06):
what kind of vault tracks or how many treasureswould be hiding in the vault tracks. So that
was also kind of, again, once you do it once,then people get really, really excited for
the rest. But yeah, I do remember it comingout. And those were my questions was like,
how different will this sound? And is it reallythat big of a deal? You know, is it just gonna
be the album again? And obviously it was a bigdeal. And the vault tracks definitely make

(10:29):
that happen for us. I do think it's got a lit.I mean, you can tell I can tell the difference
just because it's mixed and it's produced byJack Antonoff and the originals were not. So
from Fearless going forward, she has producedall her albums with Jack. And I don't know
why she made the decision not to go back toShellback and Max Martin for that and just

(10:54):
choose Jack. I don't think Shellback and MaxMartin were on Fearless though. I think their
first one with her was Red. But to the samepoint. I don't remember who the producers were
then on Fearless. I'd have to look it up. Yeah,but to that same point, I mean, not only is
their newer production, I mean, the qualityof music gets better. I mean, that album was

(11:16):
released 28, 2008? Yeah. Yeah, 2008. So, I mean,to fast forward to 2021. 11 years, 12 years,
13 years. Yeah. And she did a really good job.Do you think she chose Fearless because it

(11:38):
was 13 years after the original? Probably, knowingTaylor. I mean, yeah, it was really good. I
don't think it did as well as some of the subsequentre-recordings did just because I just don't
think people knew what to expect. Like you said,Okay, this is what we're doing. But then she

(12:01):
had a lot of success with it. So then June 18thof 21, so about two months later, she announces
Red Taylor's version and she announced it onScooter Braun's 40th birthday. Love that. We
love our petty queen. We do. We do love ourpetty queen. Like what can I do to ruin? Scooter's

(12:27):
40th birthday. I'll announce Red, Taylor's version.And that was far in advance. I believe she
was going to release that on November 19th,but then she moved it back to November 12th
for Adele because Adele was releasing her newalbum. So she released it a week early. But

(12:51):
to go from an announcement in June to a releasein November, Like that's not really heard of
that often. That's a long time. Yeah, it reallyis. It really is. Yeah. And one the other.
Just because she wanted to announce it on hisbirthday.

(13:14):
She probably fucking did. She did. Well, andalso the rev up for the Red re-release too,
I feel like she had a lot more runway. And therewas a lot more for us to kind of get excited
about, especially the rumors of the 10 minuteversion, maybe being part of it. I remember
that time being probably because it was so longthat I remember it more than the other ones.

(13:38):
Definitely. And like doing the vault. I mean,she did the vault for Fearless. But like...
We were more excited about the vault. And Ijust remember being more hyped about that album
in general. And it's gotten better with eachone, the hype around it. And then the inclusion
of Babe, which was originally saying, it wasTaylor's song, right? She wrote it for Red,

(14:03):
didn't release it with Red, but Babe was thengiven to Sugarland and she did duet on that.
but then you've got Better Man, which was releasedby Little Big Town. So like the rumors that
those were gonna be vault tracks and we weregonna get Taylor's full version with just her
voice. Like for me, that was really excitingbecause at least we knew. Like obviously we're

(14:23):
gonna love all the vault tracks because we'reSwifties, but some of them we glue onto more
than others. And those two, like being anticipated,I remember being like, those are some of the
first that I jumped to whenever we turned iton. I... My favorite song of hers of all time
is All Too Well. So when I listened to the 10minute version, I, my jaw was on the floor.

(14:45):
Like I, I can't even listen to the regular versionanymore. I have to listen to the 10 minute
version. I don't know about anybody else, butI can't do it. I have to listen to the 10 minute.
I didn't listen to the 10 minute version rightaway because I knew it wasn't ready. Like I
like legitimately, I don't think I listenedto it for a couple of days. Like I just, yeah,
because I knew it's one of my favorite songsas well. And I just like wasn't, I don't know

(15:07):
what I was going through in my life, if I wasstressed at work or if I actually had some
shit going on, but I just remember being like,I am not in a place where I'm ready to absorb
this. I went straight to it. It's a fuckingmasterpiece. That is her magnum opus, like
right now. Like I think, I mean, I can't thinkof a, she has so many wonderful, amazing songs,

(15:29):
but I cannot think of a song for me that beatsit. Yeah, well, and it's really like even when
she sings it on the tour, like when I thinkabout the Airstorm movie, it is I mean, she
looks beautiful. I mean, she's giving Queenvibes like, like when she sings that for 10
fucking minutes, like it is iconic. And obviously,the lyrics stand on their own. But I just think

(15:55):
the fact that she had a 10 minute version, andshe released it that many years later, and,
and it's on her tour, like it's iconic. It is.And honestly, like I made sure to pay when
I was at the show, the concert, I made sureto pay like a lot of attention to what was
happening because that was around the time whenpeople were saying they were getting like amnesia

(16:18):
from the show. So I wanted to like make sureI remembered a lot. And that was one part that
really sticks out to me that I remember becausewe were up further on the stage. So when we
were watching her sing that we were behind herand we just saw behind her and then above her
was a full moon and we were at Soldier Field,so it's an open dome and it was just spiritual,

(16:44):
it was like surreal. Mm-hmm, yeah, so it waswitch allegations. It was incredible. I love
it. All right, I had this that I wanted to addin here just in case it rings a bell for anybody
or it's important, but... In September of 2021,she wore a dress called the Esther dress in

(17:07):
shamrock by reformation, which just sticks outto me because as you guys know, shamrock holdings
has her work. So anytime she has anything onthat's a shamrock or shamrock related, we need
to like clock that. So I don't know what thatmeant or what it was for. It just September

(17:28):
2021. She had on a Shamrock dress. Yeah, maybeit was like her first clue to Shamrock Holdings
owning it. Cause we didn't, did we know rightaway? We did. Yeah, yeah. But I think it's
for, I've always said that I think she's gonnaend up owning her masters at some point. So
that could be a clue to that. Oh, like she startedmaking the deals. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes

(17:53):
sense. Like obviously Shamrock owning it was.a fact and not going to change. But yeah, if
she started feeling as though that was goingto be her pathway to earning it, then maybe
she would start Easter egging those Shamrockclues. And I'm going to talk a lot more about
her owning her own masters or the fact thatI think she's going to own her own masters

(18:15):
when we get into the lyrical analysis next timeof all this, because to me, it's in the lyrics.
If I ever have a theory or I can't, you know,come up with something or I'm stuck on something,
I always, always just go back to the lyrics.And that helps. The brick, you will shit if
she says the word shamrock anywhere on TorturedPoets department. I cannot wait. Oh, I will

(18:38):
lose it. Yeah, I will lose it. We'll call 911.Yep. Yeah, so fun fact, Jesse and I will be
together if you haven't caught that for theTorture Poets release. So we'll have some footage,
some reactions, all of that. We likely won'tbe able to put it on YouTube. You have to pay
for licensing rights for YouTube and you haveto also be a paid creator on YouTube. So hello,

(19:02):
go follow us and subscribe if you don't already,because that's one of the things that it would
open up for us is the ability to do reactionvideos on YouTube. But we'll post stuff on
TikTok and... We'll do our best to like getit up on YouTube without a, you know, crossing
the lines. Will we be able to cut to like certainparts though? Nope. YouTube is so- Nope. YouTube
knows. I've tried to put like three secondsof something. Yeah. It will, it will. I've

(19:24):
done a ton of research. It'll take it down.It won't even let it go up. It will mute the
whole thing. Yuck. Yep. How do people do that?They pay for it. So big creators can do it
and you basically what you do is you get accessto a library and I don't know what the cost
is, right? Like is it $5 a song or is it $100a song? I don't know, we'll see. And it probably

(19:46):
varies, but you would basically purchase therights to the Tortured Poets Department and
then either we pay for it out of pocket, right?In theory, we would make money off the streaming
of the video. So hopefully get it back. Or Apparentlysome music is licensed like a co-op where the
person who you're licensing from gets a cutof whatever you make off the video. So I'm

(20:10):
happy to be fully transparent with y'all oncewe get to that point, as far as what that looks
like, because I've been learning a lot lately.And there are tons of big creators that do
reaction videos, and then there are ones whotry and upload them and are like, what the
hell? So that's kind of the secret sauce thereis you can do it. You just have to pay for
it. Also, I want to add to right now that ifthere is a trend or something you guys would

(20:34):
like to see us do while we're in south carolinatogether and we're going to be with other creators
too like Liz, Nikki, Courtney um Yeah, we'reI mean Kenzie Hannah Um kyle we're going to
be with a lot of different creators you guys.Um wonderful creators. So If there's a trend

(20:57):
or something you want us to do or you want tosee, let us know in the comments and we'll
do it. Definitely, definitely. All right, soback to the shamrocks. I didn't mean to take
us fully off track there. Okay, so shamrockdress, just clock that. It's on Taylor Swift
Styled on Instagram. If you don't follow Sarah,please follow her. She is always up to date

(21:19):
with Taylor's latest fashion. She's amazing.Yes. All right, so she releases Red November
12th and then on August 28th of 22. So we'vegone almost a full year of Red, Taylor's version
era, right? We're going to go through that eramore when we go through Swiftie 101. But like

(21:42):
that's what we went through. We went throughalmost a long time, wasn't it? I didn't realize
it was almost a fucking year. Almost a year.Because now she's been like feeding us nonstop.
So maybe rep won't come out till 2025 and weneed to chill out because she's done this to
us before. Well, and that was that time periodwas it felt long too. And we had a lot of theories

(22:04):
because we didn't know when she was going todrop something again, you know, when she's
silent like that, it's just almost easier tomake up theories. And I remember doing a TikTok
about how she was going to come out with TS10before another rerecord. And I got so much

(22:24):
shit and hate from people because they're like,there's no way she'd release a new album in
the middle of her rerecords and this and that.And I remember the couple reasons I thought
it was coming was Aaron Dessner, he posted aboutCarolina. So that's the only thing we got new
was Carolina. We got that in spring. springor summer of 2021.

(22:52):
Or spring or summer of 2022. Because she releasedat the end of 2021, November. So then it would
have been spring or summer of 2022 that Carolinawould have come out. Yes, that's right, 22.
Okay. So Aaron Dessner put 10 exclamation marksafter Carolina. And Aaron has always been one
to really watch because he gives clues justlike Jack. And I'm like, oh, that's TS10. Like

(23:18):
I think TS10 is coming. Then if you guys rememberaround July, I think they were celebrating
Selena's birthday at a restaurant. And Taylorwas doing this like 30, but she had her arms
crossed in an X, like a Roma numeral 10. Andreally that's all I was kind of going off of

(23:40):
with my theory. And I just kind of had a gutfeeling. Everyone shit on me for it, everyone.
And then, 828, 28. Don't you love when you getshit on? It's just like, I'm telling you, I've
done political TikToks and there's nothing likegetting shit on Swiftie Talk. I mean, I couldn't
believe how many people actually thought thatthere's no absolute way that this queen could

(24:00):
release a new album in between the re-records.Why would you ever underestimate Taylor Swift?
Well, here's the thing. Now we've had the Eristour and she has just proven she is unstoppable
and invincible. So. Yeah, I mean, at the timeonly some of us knew. And yeah, I think there's
a little bit different dynamics to online withSwifties. We've always been a good, calm, you

(24:21):
know, supportive group. And there's always goingto be ones that are going to shit on you no
matter what. It's just it's part of just beingon the Internet. But I say all that to say,
I do think at that time you were one of probablyvery few creators who were making tons of theory
videos regularly. And it just like it wasn'tthe nature of. what everyone was going through.

(24:43):
So I'm sure you got a lot of, a lot of hate.Yeah. And so on August 28th was the VMA Music
Awards and she did this TikTok to Pink Venomby Blackpink. And she starts out in like the
ever more kind of era dress and then it switchesto her in like the diamond chain. Oh gosh,

(25:09):
draped in jewels. It was giving the bathtubin, look what you made me do. Like everyone
I'm sure, I'm gonna speak for everybody rightnow, was thinking rap. Yeah, I immediately
thought we were heading into a new era though.I was like, oh God, we're getting a new era.
Cause I thought, remember in my mind, I thoughtTS10 was coming before rap or anything else.

(25:31):
Yeah, so you were looking for it. Mm-hmm. And...I know that she's ushered in new eras at the
VMA Music Awards. Those are usually very bigfor her. She's ushered in new eras there before.
Once she got on stage and she won Video MusicAward of the Year for All Too Well 10-Minute

(25:52):
Version, she announces Midnight's. She said,my brand new album, my 10th studio album will
be out more information coming at midnight.the name. So I got on TikTok and I said it's
gonna be called Midnight. Yeah, well, becauseshe did say the name. She didn't tell us it

(26:15):
was the name. So yeah, she said, meet me atmidnight or something, right? Yeah. Yeah, she
said there'll be more information at midnight.And I'm like, Oh, my gosh, that's the name
of the album. It's midnight. So I left off theS but I was so close. You don't know how happy
I was when she announced TS10 girl. I was like,Oh, you haters, like whatever, you know? Yep.

(26:39):
However, I will say TS11 surprised the shitout of me. I will say that. Well, I mean, yeah.
I think it shocked everybody, but. Mm-hmm. Yeah,I would say so. For me, my biggest thing that
I always said was she doesn't release albumsin the spring like that. Like, what the fuck?
It is April and we're getting a brand new release.She's always been a fall into holiday girly.

(27:00):
And so. That's part of why I wasn't expectingit was less because like, oh, would she do
it before the rest of the re-records? Wouldshe do it while she's on tour? Like, sure,
you could debate that all day. But the factthat she announced a brand new album in February,
I think that's why the VMAs are such a big thingfor her because of the timing of them. They're
in September, October era, those months. Well,and I think Fearless was about the only album

(27:26):
that was a spring album that she's released.Yeah, well, that was a rerecord. So that like
doesn't count in my mind as far as when I'mthinking like the fall and then lover was started.
She did that with more summer like late summer.Yeah, that was more summer. I need to talk,
we need to talk about this shift because thisspring now we have had Ariana Grande with Eternal

(27:47):
Sunshine. We've had cowboy Carter with Beyonce.We've got Tortured Poets with Taylor. Now Billie
Eilish is coming out with a spring album. Wehad Bleachers, a new album. So what's going
on? There's a shift. There's some kind of shiftright now. Yeah. Right? Because this is on
her, when Billie announced today that she hada new album coming out in May, I was like,

(28:11):
what's going on with all the spring albums rightnow, but by big artists? Is that normal though?
I don't follow the trends of when releases happenby other artists. You know what I mean? No,
this is not normal. I've never seen anythinglike this. That is interesting. Well, and to
me, I would think that if you're going to havelike a summer bop, you would release it like

(28:34):
around this time, you know, but maybe not, becauseyou could always release it in the fall and
then drop the single for the summer. Interesting.I just thought I'd bring it up. If any, if
you guys want to make comments and let me knowif that's weird to you or not, I just feel
like it's a weird time of year for so many bigartists to be dropping such big albums. I mean,

(28:56):
Ariana hasn't released an album in years, likea couple years, you know? And it's just, it's
bizarre to me that between like, from Marchto the end of May, there's all these albums
coming out. It's just wild. Well, the womenare going to rule the charts. Yeah, hopefully.
Girl power. All right, so we had the whole VMAsthing. Then at midnight, we found out it was

(29:21):
called Midnights. We got the forward, we gota couple of pictures and everyone collectively
lost their minds. My husband recorded me, it'son my TikTok. It's unhinged, as most of my
stuff is. It was a different flavor of unhingedthough. Like it was like, you know, you screaming
versus just telling us some crazy theory. Itwas in raw real time. No, actually, I'm sorry.

(29:47):
I think I did a reenactment of that. The raw,real unhinged was when she announced 1989 Taylor's
version. Ah, you're right. You're right. Yep.But I, I remember leaping, like from one couch
to another couch in my living room. I don'tknow why. When she announced it, I was, I left

(30:09):
over furniture. Like Tom Cruise, Tom Cruiseon Oprah back in the day. Do you remember when
he jumped on the couch, loving Katie or whatever?I think I was just in shock, but I just got
up and I like jumped from the couch to likethe lazy boy chair and I don't know why. And
then I threw stuff. I just started throwingstuff and I'm like, see, I told you, I was

(30:31):
losing it. Eric should have recorded that. Yeah,yeah. He probably had his phone dialing 911
and stuff. Yeah, who was he? Just in case, justin case, yeah. It's so funny, my reactions
are the opposite. Like I, whenever I go intoshock, it's like frozen and you're like literally
unhinged. I know, I was unhinged. Partly though,cause I think cause I was right and I was just

(30:53):
like, but I will say when TS11 was announcedI couldn't move. I was just like, wait, what?
Like I was fully expecting reputation. And I'mlike a new album. You went dark on me for like
a day. I was like, Jessie's not going to reply.And you know what? We'll be fine. She'll be
fine. She'll recover. That's what I do. I wentinto hiding. I didn't answer any calls, texts,

(31:14):
nothing. Even the episode we did right after,I was out of it. If you watch that episode,
I'm just kind of bloop, still processing. Yeah.Crazy. Yeah, so that will be a glimpse of us
here in a couple weeks once we hear it, I'msure. I know. .. a TV on what the mood's gonna be.

(31:37):
Yeah. For sure. Okay. So September 27th of 2022, Scooter opens up to NPR.So I'm gonna read that for you. On this week's episode of NPR's The Limits with Jay Williams, music mogul Scooter Braun

(31:57):
joined the former NBA star and his longtime friend to discuss his life and career.During the interview, Williams brought up about
Braun's recent conflict with Taylor Swift, whosecatalog he acquired in 2019 from her former
label Big Machine. Swift referred to the acquisitionas her worst case scenario at the time. And

(32:19):
she said that she was sad and grossed out bythe way it had been handled in an impassioned
Tumblr post. And we did read all of that inthe last episode. Yeah, in part two. Shortly
thereafter, she decided to re-record her earlyalbums in order to reclaim ownership over them.
So, this is in quotes. When you bought the rightsto Taylor Swift's masters, it turned into a

(32:44):
really big thing, Williams said in the new interview.Somewhat understating a scenario that Braun
has said led to multiple death threats beingaimed at him and his family after Swift directed
her fans to contact Braun and former Big Machineowner Scott Borsetta about the deal. If you

(33:05):
could go back in time, would you have handledit differently? Scooter says, yes, I would
have. I learned an important lesson from that,Braun responded. I think a lot of things got
lost in translation. If you're listening, Ijust rolled my eyes. I think... I think that

(33:29):
when you have a conflict with someone, it'svery hard to resolve it if you're not willing
to have a conversation. I'm going to stop rightthere because in order to have that conversation,
he required her to sign an ironclad NDA.
Yeah, a non-disclosure agreement. And she didnot want to do that rightfully so. So she couldn't

(33:55):
have a conversation with him. So the regretI have there is that I made the assumption
that everyone, once the deal was done, was goingto have a conversation with me, see my intent,
see my character and say, great, let's be inbusiness together. I made that assumption with
people that I didn't know and I learned thatI can never make that assumption again. He's

(34:20):
almost apologizing without apologizing likehe's a narcissist. I feel like that's... Gaslighting.
Allegedly, he's a narcissist. We're not doctors.Right. It's narcissistic tendencies. It's gaslighting.
Okay, he says, in any conflict, you can say,I didn't do anything. It's their fault. He

(34:42):
went on and you could be right. You could bejustified. You could say this is unfair. I'm
being treated unfairly. Or you can say, okay,I'm being treated unfairly. is feeling I can't
fix this. So how am I going to look at it andlearn from it? I didn't appreciate how that

(35:02):
all went down. I thought it was unfair. Unfairreally. But I also understand from the other
side, they probably felt it was unfair too.So I choose to look at it as a learning lesson,
a growing lesson, and I wish everyone involvedwell. and I'm rooting for everyone to win because
I don't believe in rooting for people to lose.I think she took always rooting for the antihero

(35:28):
right from that quote. I just love that sheis like the poet laureate of our time, right?
And he says things like a learning lesson, likebro. And I'm not good at English. All right,
I know English is my first language and I saythe most dumb shit sometimes, but like what
you just read was a lot of... fluffy words likea learning lesson. And she says in the song,

(35:54):
she says, I think it's time to learn some lessons.Like she totally takes bits and pieces from
these interviews. Yeah, no, it's a good callout too. Well, he, this is before he lost all
of his talent, right? We're still in 2022. Yep.Swift's claims that Braun subjected her to

(36:20):
incessant manipulative bullying for years, andthat he and Borsetta were holding her music
hostage to stop her from re-recording it, werenot addressed in this interview. His statement
of regret wasn't exactly the apology Swift andher fandom may have been hoping for, but it's
probably the closest they'll get to one. Nowwith that last statement, I'm almost wondering

(36:42):
if he is under some kind of NDA.
If you can't talk about some of that. What doyou mean? Like he's under an NDA for what?
I think he might be under some kind of NDA becauseit says, Swift's claims that Braun subjected
her to incessant manipulative bullying for yearsand that he and Borsetta were holding her music

(37:04):
hostage to stop her from rerecording it werenot addressed in this interview. Meaning they
couldn't address that part. Yeah. Or maybe hejust told him it was all he maybe he just said
these things are off the record. Like you'renot allowed to ask them whether or not because
I was wondering who he would sign an NDA to.Well, here's where I think it happened. I so

(37:27):
Taylor did not want to work with Shamrock. Wealready talked about this because whatever
she did with Shamrock, some of the royaltieswere still going to scooter. So she had told
Shamrock that if you ever get scooter out ofthe picture completely, she would talk. Right.
So I wonder if sometime between 2020 and 2022,two years, they had some kind of deal go down

(37:54):
where Scooter exited Shamrock fully. Yeah, becauseto clarify, if you're not remembering from
the last, even though he sold to Shamrock, madehis whole 300 million back, he also was still
tied to long-term royalties for those. And sothe idea being Taylor wasn't going to even

(38:15):
entertain any conversations with Shamrock. Theyhad sent her a letter or had tried to get in
contact and she said, I'm not going to be intouch with the Shamrock side of things while
Scooter is still in the picture, while Scooteris still profiting off of her work that he
had bought and then sold and was still gettingroyalties from. So that's what you mean by

(38:38):
potentially him getting out with Shamrock. Right,exactly. And I think that the timing of this
article, September 27th, 2022, was after sheannounced Midnight's was coming out, but before
Midnight's was coming out. So he knew, he hadto have known that there was some shit on Midnight's
that had to do with him. And there was. Maybe.Yeah, the white collar crimes. Yeah, vigilante

(39:06):
shit is about him, 100%. I mean, karma is abouthim. Well, that's stuff I'm going to get into
with the lyrical analysis. And I'm going toget into more with the lyrical analysis because
she's kind of guiding. If you really listento her lyrics, she guides you on what's happening
with the business end of it sometimes. So thereare some things that she says that is leading

(39:29):
me to believe that she is still working to getback her master recordings. I know she's re-recording
and she's owning them that way. But do you reallythink Taylor is going to let it go 100% and
just never try to get her real masters back?I don't know. So that's not in her personality.
I feel like she, uh, she's a seal the deal,put a rubber stamp on it, call it a day until

(39:53):
it's done type deal. Yep. And if she had togo about it this route, then great. We have
two recordings of, you know, the same album.Who cares? Yep. But Okay. So then we have October
21st, 2022, Midnights is released. Um, her 10thstudio album, uh, November of 2022, Taylor

(40:21):
is legally allowed to rerecord reputation. Okay.So another Shamrock reference, 3-17-23 St.
Patrick's Day, Taylor Swift starts her heiresstour. Why would she started on that day? lucky
and she likes the shamrocks. I mean, there'smy mind. Yeah, there's no other reason other

(40:45):
than to point us to shamrock holdings. Likewhen I saw that was the start of her tour,
I yeah, I lost it. Like I'm like, Oh my goodness,this is such a big thing. On 5-5-23, she announced
Speak Now, Taylor's version at the Nashvilleshow. I believe you were there the night before,

(41:07):
right? Or the night after? The night after.That was the night one that she announced it,
and I was at Nashville night two. And we werecrazy enough to think she would announce another
one because why the fuck not? Right? She could.Like just, because of the whole Midnight's
Mayhem with me, which was the rollout of theMidnight's track names, people started to realize

(41:28):
that the word May underlined. So then like therewas a lot of discourse and theory land about
is Meg going to be Mayhem? Like is she goingto try and earn back all of her masters really
quickly? You know, re-record everything, getit all out so that during the Eris tour she
could own the work that she's singing. So thatI think was a little bit of that. But now we

(41:51):
understand. I don't think that really matters.She's like, I'm not going to, I'm not going
to rush this. This is going to go out the wayit needs to. I don't care that I don't own
reputation. I don't have a reputation. Taylor'sversion. I'm still going to have a full reputation
set regardless. Right. And I really struggledwith how is she going to do this tour without
owning all her work? I really thought she wasjust going to drop everything now because it

(42:15):
just didn't make sense to me on how she woulddo it. But then you go back to the lyrics and
she says, I'm taking my time. because you tookeverything from me. So she's saying, I'm taking
my time with the re-records. And that made moresense. Like I said, when you go back to the
lyrics, it'll just make more sense. She lovesa slow kill too. Like, I feel like this is

(42:36):
not, like it would be in Scooter's best interestfor us to have gotten all the re-records already
and be over and done with like two years ago.Mm-hmm, he's dragging, she's dragging it out.
Yeah, and we have double. Anyone she should.Like we fucking love it. It's been bringing
the fandom together. It's been bringing out,you know, more excitement. So why not? Well,

(42:58):
and people that weren't around for those erasor didn't, weren't big Swifties or weren't
even fans, they're getting to experience thoseeras now. Mm-hmm. Which is incredible. When
I think about like, like the idea that likeshe'll wear something and it will be like,
is that rep coded or is that, you know, speaknow coded? And it like we... didn't like this

(43:18):
is Easter egg layers, right? Like we used tothink she was entering a new era because she
would change her look. But now we get to likesee things and think, oh, is she referencing
an old era? So it's this kind of like nuanced,like theory land that it's created. And obviously
once the reports are done, we won't have thatanymore. We won't be able to like, nitpick

(43:39):
like, is this pointing to, you know, is it goingto be debut next? Is it going to be rep? And
so it's fun. She should keep it alive as longas she can. I will say it's weird though that
we've gotten a lot of bookends. So like for,you know, for the Midnight's album, it was
TS hashtag TS Midnight TS, right? And now wehave bookends again because it's debut and

(44:02):
reputation. So the first album and then thelast album that she didn't own, there's something
to that. And then there's something to the factthat she announced week now on five and then
released it on seven seven. The double is amazing.I agree. Well, and then TS11, that's, you know,

(44:22):
there's something with like the double numbers.I don't know. We've got to find that out soon
because it's looking boring. And we still aren'tsure, like the 3-3 that on her 33rd birthday,
her Instagram post, she was holding up the twofingers or the two hands, each holding three
fingers up. And you know what? Maybe she justwas saying, I'm turning 33, guys. Maybe that
maybe there's nothing to it. Yeah, no, that'sTaylor. That's that's Taylor Swift. Something

(44:48):
she meant something else by that. I don't knowwhat, but yeah. So, okay. So on July 7th, she
speak now was released in Kansas city of allplaces because that's where, you know, Travis
Kelsey is. Um, it was shortly after that heput her on blast on new heights podcasts and
they started dating. And then August 9th of23, we have 1989 announced in LA. LA never

(45:17):
got a thank you post, which is still very weird.Um, and she walks off stage with a glass of
white wine, which has always kind of represented1989. So 10, 27, 23, 1989 was released, 1989
Taylor's version. And it's exactly, what wasit? 10 years since the original it's on the.

(45:41):
It's on the anniversary of the original. It'son the anniversary. I think it would be nine.
It came out in 2014 and then 2023. So it wouldhave been nine years later. Nine years, okay.
But you're right, it was the exact same day.Mm-hmm, yeah. Now, I don't know about you.
I loved, okay, so I love Speak Now, Taylor'sversion. I missed the little giggle that she

(46:03):
had in it. Do you remember that? No, what areyou talking about? What am I thinking of? Okay.
Don't you worry, you're a pretty little mine.People throw rocks at things that shine and
I... I think that's it. She giggled in it, theoriginal one, and she didn't in the next one.
What song is that? Ours? Live, yeah, ours. Yeah,she left out. Girl, I'm gonna have to go down

(46:29):
the rabbit hole then. I don't know what you'retalking about. But I loved it, and I like,
and I love 1989 Taylor's version, I just wish.I wish we would have gotten more vaults because
those vaults were fucking fire. I don't thinkit's over now. Why would you end the whole?
No, fuck no. Is it over now? Is the last track?No, it's not over, Taylor. And I think the

(46:54):
glitch is gonna be the double 1989. And I know,I mean, you guys can shit on me. I believe
you. I've done tons of videos on it. I'm theretoo. Where is it though? I'm not over it. I
don't know. And just the fact that the imagerywas all beachy and very different than the

(47:16):
original 1989. And then do you remember howlike, it kind of got like storm imagery, like
each of the merch drops, the background of themerch started out like a normal day at the
beach, and then they got like darker as if astorm was coming in. And what is, there's a
line about that, storms. I mean, first off,1989 had lightning everywhere. It was the theme

(47:39):
was lightning, right? You've got like the wildestdreams had lightning in the music video, style
had lightning in the music video. You also hadthe Coachella jacket that she wore in the summer
of 2016 with the lightning strike on the backrepresenting the Calvin Harris Rihanna. This
is what you came for. Like there was lightningtheme happening and I just felt like that was

(48:01):
the storm of the 1989 Taylor's version. likethe illustrations kind of getting stormy. I
was like, the dark version is coming. We'regetting the second version. I could see it
being like a rock version with like collabs.Yeah. But like, where is it? You know, she

(48:23):
had to pit stop into heartbreak town for us.We're gonna get our little emotional hearts
just torn apart for a little bit here for thespring. And maybe we'll get it in the fall.
Maybe that will be the big... I'm on board withit. I thought there were way too many clues
that there was a double 1989. Way too many.And obviously Torture Poets was a surprise.

(48:50):
So it's really, you know, to me, I don't thinkwe've gotten the glitch yet. If the glitch
is something, I don't think we've gotten ityet. Me either. We're going to know. It's something
you're going to know when we get the glitch.Yeah, like a double 1989. Yes, like a year
later. I'm all for it. Maybe on the anniversary.Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So then that brings

(49:13):
us to two four of 24 at the Grammys when shewon her 13th Grammy, she got up there and announced
TS 11, the tortured poets department and shockedthe whole world. Announcing a brand new album
in the middle of a tour. I am on the fence onwhether she's adding Tortured Poets as a set.

(49:34):
I don't think she's going to. A lot of peoplethink she is. I don't know. I think it'd be
too weird to change up the set now, especiallybecause there's a movie. What do you mean there's
a movie? Oh, the Ares Tor movie. Yeah. I'm like,Tortured Poets is getting a movie. What? Yeah,
I think. You're right. I would be surprisedif she does. It will be a short one, maybe

(49:58):
two or three songs. We could be completely off.It's not like we know anything. But I just,
I don't know. We'll see. I do think what weare missing here with the timeline too. So
if you guys are listening and you're not goingin order right, we actually did talk a little

(50:19):
bit about the scooter and the this past coupleweeks made with UMG, which is the umbrella
company that owns Taylor's current record companyand her label and all the production and stuff
is done under the UMG umbrella. And so therewas news that Scooter, who is now the CEO of

(50:41):
Hive Corp for the North American division, hesigned a deal with UMG. He's seen with Lucian
Grange, who is the CEO of UMG. whatever, he'stop dog at UMG, who Taylor has been photographed
with and has personally thanked. And so it isa little interesting. So I don't know, there
might be more that comes out. If you wanna goback to the last episode, I did label it, it's

(51:05):
like Scooter Hive UMG. It's really easy to findif you wanna kind of catch that. But that was
an interesting thing to roll out during thistime when we're doing the masters. And then
of course we still owe you guys a lyrical analysis.So. The three parts were who are Scott and
who is Scooter Braun, kind of some foundationalstuff. We did the timeline in two parts here.

(51:27):
So we did part two and then part three. We talkedabout Hybe and UMG on last week's episode and
now we owe you some lyrical analysis. I knowwe've been kind of tinkering with that as we
talk through. Jessie and I will fully recordthat and release that. Hopefully in the next
week, we'll just do a surprise drop on you.Maybe Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday of next week.
I'd like to get it out before Tortured Poetsbecause I'd like you guys to be able to listen

(51:50):
to Tortured Poets and only focus on that. We'renot gonna come back to the Masters. But what's
interesting is there will probably be lyricsand ties to this Masters saga on Tortured Poets.
So it'll be nice to have that episode out soyou guys can listen for some of it as well.
And out of this whole debacle, the lyrical analysisand what songs are about who, about the work

(52:13):
or Scooter Braun or Scott Borsetta, this ismy favorite part. So you guys are going to
want to watch that. It's going to be super interesting.Yeah. Thank you for it. Yeah. We're surprised
dropping it. We're going to throw it out, butplease do not think that we are half ass in
it or that it's someone that is skip worthybecause. you are correct in that. And that's
actually why we didn't want to do it duringthis episode because we wanted to give it a

(52:36):
full episode. Like there's a lot that we'regoing to discuss. So yeah, you'll be it would
be overwhelming if we did it right now. Yep.So All right, well, let's get into some topics
from this week. So like I mentioned, we arefilming on Monday. So if there's something
that has come out and you wanna hear about it,just catch us on TikTok. We've got Jessie Swift

(52:57):
talk, I'm at Creative Chronicles, and then we'vegot the TS pod network. But one thing that
did happen that we definitely wanna touch onis Taylor released the five Apple music playlists,
each representing It's the five stages of grief,but I think she called it this five stages
of heartbreak, which stood out to me. And thena lot of people saying like, oh my gosh, that

(53:19):
confirms the theory, that confirms the theory.It was in the, so if you go to Apple Music
and if you're not a subscriber, I signed upfor three months free, which I better fucking
remember to like cancel it, but I needed tohear it. But there is a description that was
written, it's written by Apple Music, but it'slike on behalf of Taylor. And it does mention.
the theory and that Taylor had heard the theoryand that she was leaning into it. Do you have

(53:43):
that pulled up? Do you want to, should we readit real quick? I do. Um, so it's not necessarily
that the variants are the five stages of grief.Now whoever came up with that is brilliant
though, because I do think that this album isgoing to take us to through the straight stages
of grief of her relationship. I do think thisalbum is the majority is going to be about

(54:06):
Joe Alwyn. Um, But the different, okay, so youhave five different playlists that Taylor made
for Apple and she's done, I've had Apple Musicforever and she's done this before. She left
a message for each one. One is, I love you,it's ruining my life songs. So that one was

(54:26):
kind of the denial. Like you're not, she saidsomething about like being in something and
not seeing the red flags, maybe. like beingin that lavender haze. So the songs that are
on that, number one, the first song, LavenderHaze. So then the second playlist she has is,
Am I Allowed to Cry Songs? And that is her inthe bargaining stage. Then she has, You Don't

(54:52):
Get to Tell Me About Sad Songs. This one sheexplained as her anger, her anger phase. And
I'm probably saying these out of order, Theseare just like the ones. Anger is second and
then bargaining is third. It doesn't reallymatter, but just for if you're actually talking
about the stages of grief and she does listsecond, third and first and all of them. Yeah.

(55:18):
Old habits die screaming. This one she had saidwas kind of the depression stage of it. Okay.
And then I can do it with a broken heart songs.And that one is, what am I missing? Receptance.
Acceptance. Yeah, that one's acceptance. Yeah,so one thing is on each of them. So if you

(55:41):
have Apple Music and you open up the bio, Ido want to read what was written by Apple Music,
because I think it's really important for thosewho think that this is confirming a theory
versus what I think she really is doing, whichis leaning into a theory and using it as an
opportunity to give us more context into whatwe're headed into. So it says, when Taylor
Swift announces an album, That's certainly whathappened in the days after she unveiled the

(56:06):
Tortured Poets Department. As intrepid Swiftiesbegan hunting and assembling and pinning clues
to digital cork boards, eventually landing onthe theory that the 11th studio album is sure
to explore the five stages of heartbreak. Sothat's what I'm saying. She didn't say grief.
She said five stages of heartbreak. And whenSwifties agree upon a theory, Taylor takes

(56:26):
an interest. So naturally, she's responded bycrafting a series of exclusive playlists, choosing
songs of her own that fit each stage. And thenif you read each of them, then has a second
paragraph that talks about, like this one saysthe fifth and final stage is acceptance, right?
So I think what's important there is that it'sclear that this is her leaning into the theory.

(56:48):
She heard the theory, she's gonna do this becausein my opinion, if this was planned, she would
have had five variants. And so I wouldn't expectthat the songs that go with the different variants
or whatever the poem is on the back of the vinyl,I wouldn't expect that to be the theme. Although
I do think the Black Dog will be depression.We talked about that. But I don't necessarily

(57:12):
know if that's a one-to-one. If it is, thenwe're missing acceptance. Because acceptance,
the playlist didn't get a poem. If you didn'tknow those playlist titles were pulled directly
from the back of the vinyls. Each variant hada different little, I wouldn't even call it
a poem, it's more of just like a mini phrase.And so since she didn't have five variants,

(57:33):
she didn't have five poems, that final playlist,which represents acceptance, is actually just
an album, or not an album, it's actually justa song title from the Tortured Poets department,
and that's, I Can Do It With a Broken Heart,which is a great fit, right? It makes sense.
So that's where I start to wonder if she kindof pieced this together after the fact once
we got on Theoryland. And I love it becauseit really does confirm people's- probably fears

(57:59):
that this is going to be a tragic album. ButI do think it helps maybe give us some time
to sit in the current discography and understandsome context before we get into this. Yeah,
because some of the songs in these playlistsare just heartbreaking on their own. I really

(58:21):
think this new album is going to destroy us.I can't wait. I'm down for Good Destroyed.
Okay, so let's real quick just go through eachand talk about any surprises. So starting with
the first stage of grief or heartbreak, I loveyou, it's ruining my life, which is going to
be denial. I thought this was so interestingbecause in the message she said denial or delusion.

(58:46):
She also referenced ignoring red flags. Someof that stuff was like, whoo, okay, we're saying
it. You were in a state of delusion for someof this. So. Well, and I think specifically
to Joe, she had a TikTok video up when she cameout with Midnights about Lavender Haze and
said, you know, I've been with my partner forsix years and we, you know, you do anything

(59:11):
to stay in that Lavender Haze, which could havebeen what she's referring to as a red flag
because that's track one on this playlist. Somaybe that to her being in that bubble with
him. safe and comforting, but really in reality,it might've been a red flag. Well, and just

(59:35):
the need to like go back to like how it began,because she said that she learned that from
Mad Men. Like that was one of the inspiration.And when it was used in Mad Men, the TV show,
it was talking about like those early phasesof a relationship, that lavender haze. And
it's like when you're six years in, you shouldn'treally be craving that. Um, you know, it, it
does kind of seem weird that, you know, she'strying to get back to those beginning phase

(59:59):
stages. And I even think, you know, when shesings in midnight rain and she's like, he wanted
it comfortable. I wanted that pain. Like shewas, she was aching to feel. Sometimes you
fight with your partner to feel something, tomake them feel like they care again. Um, if
you're doing that, that's probably not normal,but like, that's not something you would do
in a long-term healthy relationship. It's morelike those early stages where you're trying

(01:00:19):
to figure each other out. you're trying to understandlike, is this something that's going to work?
And so I always thought that Lavender Haze waskind of an anxious attachment song. And what's
so funny is a lot of people really blamed thefans for, for taking her out of the haze, right?
There was a lot of conversation about like,oh, why do people think they need to get married?

(01:00:43):
And like, oh, like if you're constantly tryingto like understand what's happening in their
relationship, like she wants to keep it private.When she talks about like the 1950s and stuff
like that. And so now I kind of am glad thatthis was on this playlist. Cause I think it
dispels that feeling that was the, was she tryingto stay in the lavender haze because she was
trying to protect herself from the fandom andtalk about peace, you know, like how she, she

(01:01:05):
wanted to be in a relationship where that. outsideworld didn't exist or was she trying to say
in the Lavender Haze because she felt unloved?That's a good point. I wonder if she kind of
contradicts herself a little bit though, becausein Lavender Haze, she talks about, you know,
you either want a one night or a wife and it'svery like feminist and I don't need to get

(01:01:28):
married. But then you have, you're losing mewhere she says, you know, I wouldn't marry
me either, pathological people pleaser. So Ireally do think. she wanted to get married.
I think that was on the table and she was justdelusional, justifying it maybe. Yeah, and
I never took that line as her saying that itwas wrong for people to think that. I think

(01:01:52):
she's saying like, she wants to go back to theportion of, cause when you're early in a relationship,
when the media was saying like, oh, it's onlyone night or a wife, that's normal. Six years
in. That's not like, I just always thought someof the lines, even going to the Lover album,
I just remember being like, this is a beautifulsong for early stages of a relationship. Do

(01:02:15):
you know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Some of thesong choices too, on this delusional red flag
playlist are interesting because you have Snowon the Beach, which is a lot like Lavender
Haze. Sweet Nothing that she wrote with Joe,and Glitch, which we need to note. Yep. But

(01:02:35):
she's got lover on here. I mean, well, and Iwant to pause because sweet nothing. She wrote
with Joe, you and I've had this conversationoffline a ton. I'm not convinced that William
Bowery means he sat down and wrote a song withher because of the way that she's done songwriting
in the past. Like she said that with blank space,like she got a lot of the melodies on it from

(01:02:59):
things that she had already written in her journalover the years. She like went back and like
grabbed good. And so like, darling, I'm a nightmare,dressed like a daydream was probably something
she had written down at one point. And so whenshe was writing that song, she went back and
pulled. And so I start to question if some ofthe songs, I'm not saying every song that William
Bowery wrote with her, Joe, were this way, butI could see where if he helped her write something

(01:03:23):
from a poem or start something, if she usedit, then did she credit him? But is she does
that mean though that she's going to credithim on a lot of songs on tortured poets because
I bet she's going to take a lot from you knowconversations that you've said that before
on here haven't you that you wouldn't be surprisedif he's credited yeah I could see that um well

(01:03:47):
and it depends on like where she draws the linelike did he have to say it to her or did he
write it down with her or you know to your pointmaybe they really did sit down in Um, but I
also think she, um, would be more than willingto credit somebody who had any inkling of writing
with her because she's very protective of when,you know, she wrote the song herself and when

(01:04:09):
somebody else played a part. She's got Bettyon this playlist too. Mm hmm. Yeah. My biggest
surprise was obviously lover. I think a lotof people feel that way and lover is a beautiful
love song. Again, early in a relationship. Ilove it for like. If you are just starting
to date somebody or you're thinking maybe marriageis gonna be the end game and to think like,

(01:04:34):
can I go where you go? Can we always be thisclose forever and ever? There is nothing wrong
with still thinking of that song and thinkingof it as a love song. I think that's something
that I've seen a lot online where people arecompletely recategorizing these things. And
it is interesting to note that is somethingthat you probably wouldn't say years into relationship.

(01:04:54):
Can we always be this close? Of course, dude.You know, we've already done six summers together,
like, or whatever she said, three summers now.Um, but I do think that it's just, just be
careful if you're somebody who's like kind oftorn up about changing meanings of songs, it
doesn't mean the song changed meaning, it justcategorizes where she was at in her life when

(01:05:14):
she wrote it. I saw something online that hadme literally gagged. And it was that when she
says, and at every table, I'll save you a seatlover. And I always thought that was such a
beautiful romantic line, but now what if we'relooking at it from the standpoint of he's never

(01:05:37):
there with her at events and she's going tosave him that seat anyway, just in case he
shows up. Yeah. Oh, that's like, yeah. That'slike, gut-wrenching. Well, and also like, I
don't know. I just. Again, it's just like Ialways thought Lover was so weird. My husband

(01:05:59):
and I started dating right around the time thatLover came out. And that's why I think it's
so weird because songs like Cornelia Street,I hope I never lose you. I hope it never ends.
I love that song that reminds me of our earlydays of like realizing like, no, like, please
don't let this end. This is what it's supposedto be. And luckily I got the ring and we're
fucking married and he's not going anywhere.Um, but that was a feeling that is natural

(01:06:23):
to have an early stages of relationship. Andagain, I, I at the time questioned why is Taylor
writing music that is mirroring where I'm atin my relationship, which was very early. Anxiety.
Mm hmm. Exactly. Yeah. I don't know. Okay. Let'sgo to the next one. The next one was what anger,

(01:06:43):
what comes next? Yeah. Anger is the next one.So the don't get, you don't get to tell me
about sad songs. Exile is on here. That onestuck out to me because that's one that they
wrote together. Yeah, and it's one of thosesongs that I could see like from an anger standpoint,
it makes sense, but it's also not overtly angry.Well, another thing we need to say here too

(01:07:08):
is not all these songs are about Jo. She didn'tcontextualize the Jo relationship for us. She
put songs all the way going back to Fearless.She left off all debut and reputation because
clearly Those are not songs that she owns andshe doesn't want us streaming them. So I just
think that it's, it's interesting to look atthe ones when they were together and think,

(01:07:29):
okay, you know, in the years leading up to thisalbum, we're about to get where we at. Well,
and I think she just wanted us to meet, likewanted to make a mad album for us, like our
playlist, like of her angry songs or whatever.But you know, what also sticks out to me here
with all the rumors that have gone. gone aroundis illicit affairs. Yeah, I liked that illicit

(01:07:53):
affairs was on angry because I always reallythought that was a beautiful song, but then
when she sang it on tour, angry, it's a differentsong. Like it's fucking good. I need that version.
Yeah. Like, can we, can we like, you know howwe got all too well 10 minutes for like, you
know, being annoying and Taylor finally beinglike, fine, you can have it. Illicit affairs,

(01:08:15):
the angry version we need. That song goes hard.Yeah. All right. After anger is bargaining,
am I allowed to cry? The Great War Man. That'smy favorite. I love that song. That's one I
really, that one has a lot of layers to it.A lot of layers of different things. Yeah.

(01:08:36):
I thought it was interesting that she tuckedRenegade at the end of this one too, because
Renegade is by Big Red Machine. So it's noteven really on any of her albums. And it is,
I mean, if you guys haven't listened to Renegade,It's fantastic, especially if you're like a
folklore evermore, Swiftie, go listen to it.It belongs on one of those albums. It's the
same kind of, you know, vibe. Yeah. What waswritten for, for those albums, but then they

(01:09:01):
decided it fit better on big red machines album.How long do you think it's going to last is
the name of that album. Taylor actually cameup with the name and. It's just so... She came
up with the name of how long do you think it'sgonna last? What year did that come out? Like
2021? It was right after Evermore. So it'd be2020 or 2021. Well, Evermore came out in December.

(01:09:25):
So, yeah, that's fucked up if that was an albumname she came up with. Yeah, she came up with
it and she's on two songs in it, Birch and Renegade,and she actually wrote Renegade and Renegade's
full of anxiety. And it's a lot like you'relosing me. Yeah, Renegade, that should have
been a telltale sign that shit was hitting thefan. And we didn't know, because we were all,

(01:09:48):
I think we're all in this, at least for me,I was in this puff cloud of like, she found
her person. Like, Joe's perfect for her. Ohmy God, I'm so happy for her. Like everything's
like rainbows and roses. And you look and it'snot, it really wasn't. Yeah, I never. like
cared about Joe, like I didn't hate him or likehim. Like it just like he was just a part of

(01:10:11):
who she was, but like not a defining portionof how I experienced her as a fan. So to me,
I just believed her when she said these songswere part fiction, you know, and I'm like,
maybe she is like so happy and content thatnow she needs to write story, because she can't
pull from her real life anymore because herreal life is steady and normal. Yeah. Okay,

(01:10:34):
then the next one would be Old Habits Die Screaming,which is depression. I think it's interesting
Maroon is on here. I never really saw that asa depression song, but now I guess, I guess
it is. What are your thoughts on Coney Island?That's one of your favorites. Ooh, that is
one of my favorites. Coney Island. Um, thatis got some depressive like undertones to it

(01:11:01):
and grief. I mean, like. She literally goesthrough her relationships, you know, and says
what happened, the catalyst that broke the relationship.Like when I stepped up to the podium, I think
I forgot to say her name, Calvin Harris, WereYou Standing With A Big Cake Down The Hallway,
that was, you know, Jake Gyllenhaal. I mean,it's such a fabulous song. All right, and then

(01:11:27):
the last one, I can do it with a broken heart.So this is obviously going to be the acceptance
stage. These ones didn't really surprise me.I love that she started it with you're on your
own kid because that is obviously a very importantsong to her. And it is a song of acceptance.
Yep. Clean. And then the one is on there. Andthat's the song that they changed from invisible

(01:11:50):
string to the one on tour. And invisible stringson there too. Yeah, I did hear some discourse
about invisible string being on there, becausethat's one of those love song type things.
And maybe it's coming from the place of acceptingthat Joe was meant to come into our life and
maybe leave eventually. And a lesson learned.I mean, people come into our life for a reason,

(01:12:14):
a season, or whatever the saying is. Yeah, definitely.So what were your thoughts when this came out,
though? Did you? Because for me, I was drivingand I like legitimately signed up for Apple
Music subscription, the free trial. I fuckingdon't know. I just had to listen. I had to
listen to them. And so for me, I was like, Iremember driving and being like, what is happening?

(01:12:40):
What is happening right now? Like fucking likeshe's not really done anything like this before.
Yeah. Um, she, I wanted to listen to the messagesfirst, um, to see if there were any clues or
something in her messages. The last time shedid something like this was when she created
the playlist for the quill pen, glitter gelpen, fountain pen. So that's the last time

(01:13:03):
she did it and had a message for each one. Butyeah, so it is interesting. But that didn't
recontextualize songs for us. That's what Imean by she's never done anything like this
before and that she's very hush. about the meaningbehind stuff. She lets us figure it out. She
lets us interpret it the way that we need tointerpret it in our lives. She doesn't tell

(01:13:25):
us who the songs are about. She doesn't usuallygo back in time. And that's why when you're
losing me was finally dropped officially onstreaming. And then Jack released that story
where he said exactly the date it was written.That was weird. We don't usually get that level
of detail. And so for her to have said, like,these are songs that I wrote when I was in

(01:13:45):
a stage of denial or delusion. You're like,that to me, that's why I was in shock. Because
I'm like, she is telling us more. Like, if youthink about any great artist in history, you
don't usually get that level of detail, especiallyafter the fact of what really drew the inspiration
to the song. Mm hmm. Yeah, agreed. It's it.I think she's definitely this more than anything

(01:14:11):
else. I mean, we all knew Red was about JakeGyllenhaal pretty much, but we know this is
going to be about Jo Alwyn. And maybe ScooterBraun and Scott Braschetta. Who knows, guys?
Maybe some other announcers. Maddie Healy mighthave a song or two in there. Yeah. Very exciting.
Should we punt over to our draft then and doour final picks? Yes. I'm so excited. All right,

(01:14:37):
so we have been doing what we're calling TTPdraft and shout out to those of you who have
done your own. We've got tagged in a coupleand oh my gosh, it makes me so happy. So Jesse
and I have been going through and basicallypicking a team, right? Because there's 20 songs
on the Tortured Poets department, if you includeall the bonus tracks. and we are making our

(01:14:58):
own little teams of 10. So we're just pickingsongs blindly. Like we have the name of the
track so we can guess what we think it's gonnabe and if it's gonna be a good one, we know
what number it is, which is another clue ifit's gonna be good. They're all gonna be good,
let's be clear. But at the very end, we aregonna have it on our website. You can actually
see it now. It's tspodnetwork.com backslashdraft. But on the day that Tortured Poets is

(01:15:22):
released, we will be opening up a poll whereyou could vote on which of our teams you like
better now that you've heard the music. So we'rejust gonna finish out the draft, just knowing
that it's literally coming out next week andwe're gonna call them all out now. So I will
start with the pick because Jesse got like firstpick overall and then we'll kind of go back

(01:15:45):
and forth. And they just a question, they don'thave just the day it comes out. It'll go for
a couple of weeks, right? Oh, good point. Yes.You can, we'll leave it open probably all year,
honestly, because then people can watch thisback and go vote. If you're watching this in
July, go vote. Maybe one of us will come back.What'd you say? We'll end it on New Year's

(01:16:05):
Eve. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. All right, so asa recap, Jesse has track one, Fortnite, track
two, the Tortured Poets Department, track six,But Daddy I Love Him, and the bonus track of
The Black Dog. And then I have So Long London,which is a track five, snagged that one, track

(01:16:26):
eight, which is Florida with Florence and theMachine. I also have track 12, which is L-O-M-L,
or like I like to call it LOM. And then my lastone that I've already claimed is track 16,
Clara Bow. So I haven't thought through thisone enough. Um, I think I'm going to choose

(01:16:48):
the manuscript. Oh, good one. Good one. That'sa good one. I know. OK, I am going with track
13. I can do it with a broken heart. because13 is her favorite number. Damn it, we blew
one of them one. 13's her favorite number, andI Can Do It With a Broken Heart was one of

(01:17:11):
the names of the playlist. So it's gotta bespecial. Fuck, I just messed up. I messed up
critically, because I've always said that'stolerated part two, because break free and
leave us in ruin, take this dagger in me andremove it. Believe me, I could do it. I can
do it with a broken heart. Fuck. This is sofun. Oh my god. Damn it. I'm so mad at myself.

(01:17:38):
This is why I shouldn't be like making notesover here. I need to be thinking. Okay. We're
gonna have to do this for every album eventually.Yeah. Well, even if it's not coming out, we'll
just do it. Although it does, it stings morewhenever you don't know if it's good or not.
Right. Okay, your turn. Fresh out of the slammer.I gotta have fresh out of the slammer. That

(01:17:59):
one looks fucking good. Fresh out the slammer,good one. Oh yeah, I added an of there. It's
fresh out the slammer. Oh my goodness. Okay,I know what I'm gonna pick. Are you ready for
it? Yeah. I'm gonna scoop up the albatross.Fuck, I knew you would want that one. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. If you do the albatross, then I'vegotta take the other last bonus track that's

(01:18:25):
still available, which is the bolter. Damn,I knew you were going to. You're not going
to get three of the four bonus tracks. Okay.My turn? Yeah. I'm going to go track nine guilty
of sin because it's in Carolina.

(01:18:50):
Guilty as sin, sleep in a liar's bed. Oof, thatone's gonna cut. I think I need to take, you're
gonna be mad at me. I can fix him, no reallyI can. That'll be a good one. I feel like that's
gotta be, that's gotta be a good one. Yeah.Yeah, definitely. I am gonna go with alchemy.

(01:19:14):
Damn it, Jesse, okay. I mean, they're all good.I don't know why I'm mad at you. Like you have
to be able to choose them. No matter how manytimes people explain what alchemy is to me,
I don't understand it. But I feel like it'sgonna be important. It's related to like, like
astrology now too. Like I like read it as justlike the turning of gold or whatever. I don't

(01:19:38):
know. Yeah. Maybe maybe Taylor will teach uswhat alchemy means. Oh, I'm sure she will.
Um, I feel like I need the smallest man whoever lived. Okay. Why do I think that's going
to be about Maddie Healy?
I'm going to go with Who's Afraid of LittleOld Me because I think it's a play on Virginia

(01:20:02):
Woolf. Okay. All right. So the only two thatwe have left are My Boy Breaks His Favorite
Toys and Down Bad.
I think I need to do number three. My boy onlybreaks his favorite toys. Something about Down
Bad doesn't sit with me and I know everyone'sreally excited about it. It's just, it's not
giving me enough in the title. That was, that'sfine. Cause I would have picked Down Bad. I

(01:20:27):
figured you would have. So I was like tryingto figure out, did I want to like slight you
and take the good one or? You could. Go withmy gut. Go with my gut. Nope, we're good. So
we've got it split. All right. So guys, I'mso excited. That was so fun. Yeah, we'll do
this more often. We'll do more drafts and haveopportunities for you guys to vote on stuff.
Maybe like we talked about drafting, maybe liketrack ones or you know, whatever. We could

(01:20:52):
sit here and do it with like 1989 TV and likeeach of us pick one that we love and then have
people vote on, you know. Yeah, like who hasthe better favorites? Yeah, I love it. I love
it. All right, so those will be up on the tspodnetwork.comwebsite. You'll just do backslash draft or

(01:21:12):
we have like a link to it as well. Once youget to the homepage and then on April 19th,
go on there and vote. You're welcome to sleuththe site. In the meantime, if you want to just
see the full list of what each of us has. Um,okay. And we also have more with the masters.
So we will be recording the lyrical analysisportion here soon and dropping that the week

(01:21:33):
of tortured poets. coming out. So maybe Monday,Tuesday, Wednesday ahead of the album release.
So definitely keep an eye out for that. We'lltell you on TikTok when we're releasing it.
And then of course we have KJ joining us forthe April 19th release. Obviously we're not
super women and we can't record our reactions,edit and post it that same day. So that's more

(01:21:54):
of just a fun episode talking about being Swifties,talking about excitement around the album.
So definitely join us on the day of the albumrelease. And then Jesse and I have a lot of
going on. We will definitely have to put videosup. We will do our best to be timely with reactions
with extra content. So just hang tight afterthey release the Tortured Poets department

(01:22:17):
because we're going to have, we're going tobe like running like a freight train. I just
know it. Yeah. You guys will get our initialreactions because when we record after Tortured
Poets, it's still going to be fresh and fairlynew. Yeah. Yeah, there's like the first time
you hear the lyric reaction, which will film,but there's also like the now that I've had
time to sit with it. Reaction is our first analysisand that might be different on how we feel

(01:22:41):
like three or four weeks later too. Yep. Andso as a reminder, if we want to be able to
do reaction videos and include music on ourYouTube, we need to be at least 1000 subscribers
or more. just because that puts us at a levelwhere we get access to additional things like
copyright. So please, please go subscribe toour YouTube if you haven't already, give us

(01:23:03):
five stars on all of the different podcast networksthat you listen to us on and just know that
we appreciate you. We are gonna be so busy thisnext few couple of weeks and we are doing it
all for you guys. We are so thrilled to havestarted a podcast in the year of the Tortured
Poets Department. So just hang tight. Keep tunedin with all of our socials. We'll keep you

(01:23:24):
up to date on where we're at and what we'rereleasing. We will continue to have Friday
episodes, but there's gonna be a lot more comingout. So stick with us and we look forward to
seeing you next week. Bye.