May 15, 2025 • 41 mins
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Audience engagement metrics on YouTube aren't always what they seem, and retention graphs can be misleading if viewed in isolation. We explore why "good" retention varies drastically based on content length, traffic sources, and viewer behavior across different platforms.
• TikTok has reportedly surpassed Twitch to become the second most streamed platform after YouTube
• Retention graphs look different depending on video length, with shorts typically exceeding 100% while long-form content rarely does
• High-view videos often have lower retention percentages than creators expect
• Search traffic typically has shorter view duration than browse or suggested traffic
• Breaking down retention by traffic source and subscriber status reveals more useful insights than aggregate data
• YouTube doesn't currently track "hover behavior" when viewers preview but don't click
• Platform differences significantly impact engagement behaviors (TV vs. mobile vs. desktop)
• Mr. Beast has set unrealistic retention expectations for many creators
• Viewer disclaimers and overexplaining opinions have become increasingly common in content
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a five-star review and join us next time when we'll be sharing more about ourselves as creators.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the only podcast where one of us has
great taste in candy and theother doesn't.
I'm not going to say which iswhich.
I'm Travis and I'm here withJen yet again.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hello everyone.
Hello, I have the great taste.
That's the spoiler.
It was me.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Great taste, less filling.
Welcome to the only podcast inthe world that talks about both
candy, youtube growth andeverything else.
My name is Travis.
Of course, jen is here and we'dlove to help you grow your
YouTube channels.
We're going to do a quick hithere.
Some news came out.
I don't know if this is truethis thing is.
It's hard to verify somethinglike this, but let's talk about
(00:35):
it anyway.
Allegedly, tiktok is now thesecond most streamed platform,
above Twitch in this firstquarter of 2025.
Youtube being first, apparentlyTikTok second, and then Twitch
being third.
This is very interesting.
Whether or not it's true ishard to verify.
A little hearsay, hearsay Alittle hearsay, but the fact
that there's any data at allthat would even back that up is
(00:55):
interesting.
I guess I didn't even realizeit.
I guess I knew their TikTok hadlive stream, but I didn't use
it.
I know you've ticked theoccasional talk.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, tiktok, lives are like where it's at.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
What happens on a TikTok live.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Anything Like, literally anything Like.
People go live all the timedoing all kinds of stuff.
You don't need any kind ofrelationship to that person to
like watch what they're doing.
It's so disconnected and ofcourse some are not but it's
literally like an unfilteredyoutube video in that sense
where you're discovering contentand you're just watching it
(01:34):
live do you think the way theydo their live streams in some
way is better than thehorizontal or vertical format on
youtube?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
live streaming is it?
Is it it feel entertaining ordoes it just feel like a bunch
of people just doing things thatdon't make any sense?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I've never seen a YouTube vertical live.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I've had creators that have experimented with them
, so I've seen that, but I'venever been on YouTube because I
don't watch shorts.
You're probably not the onlyone who have never seen one,
right.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
You're probably not the only one who have never seen
one.
Right, you're probably not theonly one.
So, with that being said, whatabout tiktok?
Lives are interesting to you,because I want to understand
this as a viewer of them,occasional viewer.
Uh, like, what's the what's thething?
Like, what makes it interestingor cool, or whatever?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
all right.
You're just kind of like it'sso passive.
You're just kind of likepopping in seeing what's going.
You're just kind of likepopping in seeing what's going
on and then leaving.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Oh, very disposable.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Like it's not yeah, that's what I'm saying Like
there's no community, there's noviewer connection, like it's
just an unedited video.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah, I feel like I've said this for years that
short-form content really leadsto.
I mean, it's very hard to havean actual community behind it
leads to.
I mean, it's very hard to havean actual community behind it.
You can have followers andstuff, but really they haven't
really built a connection to youin most cases.
I think there's a ton and more.
Quote large TikTokers that havea very empty audience.
(02:55):
They don't really have agenuine connection to them.
Then there are smaller YouTubersthat actually have an audience
that really cares about thembecause it's so disposable, it's
so quick.
It's like I've watched you for30 seconds.
What kind of connection can Ihave with you in 30 seconds?
I don't I connect with thecontent.
I might think it's funny.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Maybe there are the occasion people have like that
genesis yeah, I think you couldstumble upon people that you're
just like, oh, I just like vibewith you but, right, all in all,
like it's not really the point,you're really watching for
whatever they're doing or sayingand like how many times have
you thought of like a funnytiktok or real or short, and
(03:31):
then like you couldn't find thatto save your life like you
would have?
no, this has happened to me somany times right where, if you
didn't send it to someone, likethat's gone on the internet,
you're never gonna find it again.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah it's interesting because, like, as you're
talking about live stream onTikTok and just kind of anything
, I'm like it might be kind offun to just randomly do some
live streams and just whatever,but to what you just said, it's
like if you can't even find themlater not that they can't be
found, but like it's harder forthe average person to find them.
It almost feels like even thelive streams are disposable and
(04:03):
for me I always go, then what'sthe point?
That's always what I come backto.
Money, to be clear.
Well, okay, money, but like howmuch money can like a smaller
creator?
And I don't know the answer tothis.
I'm not saying this to be aleading question, but how much
money do you think a smallercreator could make?
Live stream on TikTok?
(04:26):
And I guess, when I say smaller10 000 followers, I go, I don't,
I don't know, I don't know,like the monetary rates on
tiktok, but can't the peoplelike gift things and stuff.
Yeah, have you ever giftedanything to a live streamer?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
no, on any platform oh yeah, I send like super chats
to my friend and stuff like allthe time oh, your friend, but
this is your friend uh, yeah,never a stranger interesting see
.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I've super chatted a lot of people on YouTube.
I've super chatted.
A lot of creators I've watchedfor various reasons.
Just depends on what it's no.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I've never like crowd participating, crowd funding,
anyone that I didn't know,actually.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
So you're basically money laundering.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I am money laundering to all of my creator friends,
which is wild.
Except they don't get to takehome half of it.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
That's what I'm saying.
That's the funny thing You'reactually paying YouTube to pay
your friend, which is kind ofwild.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
What happens is it starts to train.
If I send a $20 Super Chat, theSuper Chats are flowing in.
It's a strategy.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
It's not like here's $20.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
You're so poor.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Very smart.
How often does this work?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
you're so poor, right ?
No very smart.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
How often does this work?
I mean anytime, like my friendsare live on any platform, so we
all do it for each other likeit's a community tactic wait.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So then other people naturally seem to oh yeah I
believe that I mean back in theday all of us were financially
crowdfunded.
We did not make like an incomefrom like ads.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, you were basically like, it's almost like
.
Yeah, you're basically doinglike a pyramid scheme between
each other.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
It's crazy.
It's crazy Like people are likeoh, like you hear those stories
where, like smaller channelsand stuff, like they make so
much money, or like maybe youwant to go sign up for a course
or something.
It's like I've made twentythousand dollars with ten
thousand subscribers orsomething but like it's true it
happens, like it's just not,it's just looking past outside
(06:15):
adsense very smart, uh, and Iguess you could do, but that's
also like deep community, likeyeah you have to have a strong
community which is interestingbecause we just did an episode
on community, so you need towatch that.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
That was, and we didn't talk about crowdfunding
yeah, so we kind of left thatout.
That's all right, but that'swhy you watch one episode to
watch the other so every episodeis like, unofficially, a call
to action to the previous one.
Yes, usually what you do in alot of youtube videos is you do
point back to an older video.
We do it on accident.
You're supposed to do it onpurpose.
Yeah, we do a complete accidentbecause we forget to talk about
(06:51):
things.
Yeah but I feel like so crazy.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
So I mean the live stream on tiktok.
I don't know, I would.
I just I believe it.
I don't know, do people likescroll on twitch, like who's
discovering things on Twitch?
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Twitch is definitely more about communities.
And a lot of people who streamon YouTube and Twitch tend to
like the way the community isbuilt on Twitch better than
YouTube.
But ironically, I think thereason for that is one of the
strengths of YouTube, which isthere is a discovery engine for
YouTube.
Many times I have beenrecommended live streams of
people that are only like 10people streaming only 10 people
(07:27):
watching.
You almost never see that ontwitch.
Like everything that's on theside of like you might like
these are all like hundreds ofpeople, so like they're bigger
channels.
You see this on youtube all thetime.
You'll see I see smalleryoutubers live streaming all the
time.
I always get that.
but the problem with that is I'ma random person going in there
and if I'm a mean person I mightjust say mean stuff true which,
a couple episodes ago, talkingto Trisha Hershberger, she
mentioned the like algorithmicaudience and how she feels sorry
(07:51):
for those people, which is whyshe mainly streams on twitch to
her community, because when shestreams elsewhere, there's so
many quote random people, umthat, and a lot of those people
tend to be toxic, which isreally interesting.
So, um, the question is is, isTikTok really second?
But even if they aren't now,they could be later, but it
sounds like the community-basedstreaming in some ways is best
(08:11):
on Twitch.
Let us know what you think ofthat.
Certainly, send us a message,but we actually have a question
from one of you and you canalways send us a question from
the Boost by emailing us attheboostvidIQcom, and this one
is from Jace.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, so this one is going to kind of set off the
whole, well, portion of thisepisode at least, talking about
retention.
Ah and pretty much to sum thisup is is your retention good or
bad?
It's terrible, and how do youknow?
How do you even know what'sgood or bad?
(08:45):
And I saw this so much incoaching because retention
graphs are like a sacred thing.
It's not even like I love them.
They're so secret, they're justlike not talked about, though,
right, they feel like a sacredthing, like who's going around,
like starting a you know, Idon't know group chat, just
sending each other retentiongraphs.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
I would.
I, you know, I don't know groupchat, just sending each other
retention graphs I would.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I love retention graphs.
That's a tough one, so it'shard to know what is actually
the same way.
It's like what's a good CPM,what's a good RPM?
Like it's so differentdepending on the content and the
creator and there's so manyvariables that go in it it's
hard to know what's good or bad.
So what is a good or badretention graph?
(09:26):
Where do we start?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
what's?
Let's explain.
So in this one, jace is talkingspecifically about shorts.
So we got to be really specificabout the fact that, depending
on the length of video, goodmeans something completely
different.
So in these screenshots heshows he's showing things above
100 okay it's important to know.
You're almost never going to seethat on a long form content
video, it's very rare you'reever going to see something
above 100.
(09:47):
But in shorts you should almostalways see something above 100
if you want a good performingshort.
So to understand like what goodis is very relative.
Very relative it's relative tothe content, the length of the
content, the style of content,where the content was watched,
(10:07):
and the only thing that reallymatters in the end is did you
get more impressions?
I feel like, because you can'tcontrol views.
Views are a matter of someonechoosing someone's choosing to
click your thumbnail and titlebased off the topic you selected
.
You have control over thethumbnail, title and the content
.
Youtube then looks at all thatstuff and how people interact
(10:28):
with it and gives you moreimpressions.
You can say I want more views.
Really, you want moreimpressions.
Views is something that's out ofyour control.
Impressions are too, but youreally want more impressions for
what you're putting intoYouTube.
Once you get those and you getmore views, if you get more
impressions, you've succeeded.
Your content, your thumbnailtitle and everything matched
your retention is the thing youlook at after the fact to go.
Did people even care or wasthis like a clickbait?
(10:49):
Did people click the first 10seconds and go?
This is what I wanted to watch.
And then they watch and they'relike why am I watching Joe the
Plumber when I wanted to watch achocolate cake video?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
That's true.
So it sounds like we're kind ofdebunking a lot of retention
myths, a lot of retentionexpectations, and, starting with
getting familiar with yourretention graph, we'll even just
like back it up and explain,you know, for people that are,
you know, new to even looking atthese, what we're actually
looking at.
And this graph is, of course,your video, and the line going
through is how many people arestill watching it, and the dips
(11:32):
are people skipping ahead orabandoning, and then, of course,
the spikes are people clickingback, and all these things can
kind of be for good or badthings.
So spikes don't necessarilymean a good thing.
It can actually be like afrustrated viewer who can't
understand what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
It's just clicking back for whatever reason.
Maybe you had text on screenthat was not long enough and
someone couldn't read it, so,while it may give you a spike,
it might not be a positiveviewing experience, but
typically spikes are somethingthat people re-watched or
skipped ahead to watch.
So a lot of times retentiongraphs, depending on the type of
video, have an entirelydifferent line.
(12:13):
Like we're not looking at astandard slope if we're looking
at a video.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
If we put out a video that was like here's 10 ways to
grow your youtube channel,everyone's going to skip ahead
to every single reason and it'sgoing to look like this and we
put timestamps on all our videos, and so you'll see these little
tent-looking things at thetimestamps because people are
clicking around figuring outwhat they want to watch Yep.
So yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
So does that make it good or bad?
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I think, yeah, it really depends.
It's not necessarily a badthing.
And, by the way, people go well, won't that hurt your average
view duration?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Oh, I love this.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Well, yes, but does that mean that it hurts your
impressions, which is what youreally want?
To get more views, notnecessarily.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
No.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
As a matter of fact, if you are giving people what
they want, there are othersignals that YouTube takes a
look at when someone's watchingsomething, to indicate whether
they're gonna get you moreimpressions.
When we say something's a goodvideo, it's relative, right.
So I guess really what I'msaying is you're getting more
impressions to get moreopportunities for views.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
So if someone skips to the middle of your video but
everyone skips to the middle ofyour video and then watches a
whole long section and thenmaybe comes back to your channel
later but doesn't watch the outof that video, even though they
didn't watch the whole thing,that's okay.
Most videos that get like tonsof views the average view
(13:31):
duration retention is bad.
It's very bad because it'sbeing shown to new people, which
is a good thing, right?
Yes, the more new people thatsee your videos, the worse your
retention becomes.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
And the more people in general who just see it, the
worse it becomes.
Yes, we see this a lot, wherepeople send in like these
beautiful, beautiful retentiongraphs and you know they finish
at like 50, 60 percent andthere's barely any drop off but
it has, you know, 50 views andthose are like the 50 most loyal
, most dedicated.
You could put out any singlevideo in the world and your
retention graph is going to lookthe same.
(14:06):
That doesn't mean you've earnedthe right to more impressions.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yes, you can have excellent retention and not get
any more impressions, and peoplewill often say, well, okay, my
retention is really good, it'shigher than ever before, but I
didn't get hardly any views.
I have a video.
I wish I could remember whatthe exact number is.
It's so impressive.
The retention was so goodbecause I specifically went out
to try to make it high retentionhigh retention at the end.
I think.
It was like it's like a four orfive minute video and I think I
(14:33):
had like 70% of the people atthe last 20 seconds of the video
, which is insane, one of mylower performing videos, despite
the fact that, like it had beentargeted well and all this
other thing.
It just didn't work out thatway.
So why?
There's a lot of reasons, andsome of which goes back to the
thing that Jen and I say a lotof times is some things are just
what they are and you can'tworry about them.
(14:54):
There's nothing you can doabout it.
There's nothing you can doabout it.
Did you do a good job?
Congrats, congrats.
You get your 12 views.
It is what it.
But I think you can learnthings from it.
So I learned something early onfrom retention graphs when I
used to watch, when I used tomake videos and look at the
retention graph to see what wasI doing wrong.
Right, I found that if I wasoff the camera too long, my
(15:14):
retention dropped, but if I wason the camera too long, my
retention would drop.
So I had to find this balancebetween showing b-roll and then
showing myself in this balancethat people seem to like.
If I was away too long, I thinkmaybe they weren't connecting
with me as much.
If I was on too long, theyweren't understanding what I was
talking about because I wasn'tvisually showing it.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
So the mix seemed to work out after I figured that
out, and that's where you canuse retention graphs to help
elevate yourself.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I like that.
I like that you used it as acreator, to how to better
yourself as a creator, yeah, andkeeping your audience in mind.
But you know who I want toblame for this, mr.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Beast, beast.
I knew you were going to say it.
Mr Beast started this crap.
The Mr Beast editing yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Mr Beast started like if your video doesn't finish at
50% retention, it sucks.
Yeah, everything sucks to himthough, but that's one in
unrealistic expectation it is.
I have seen several I evenstill have screenshots of over 1
million view videos that havethe retention between 4%.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Wow, I've never seen that before.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
To 14%.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
And what's the length of the video generally?
Speaker 2 (16:21):
16, 17 minutes.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
And like I'm talking steady through, like 12 through
the whole video three percentthrough the whole video,
immediate click off and continueto be surfaced wow insane, and
I mean there's always anexception to the rule for like
that extreme, but I would say onaverage.
I've seen like million plusretention graphs in the 20s, if
(16:46):
they're lucky.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Now here's another thing a lot of people don't talk
about when they talk aboutretention graphs.
The problem with the generalretention graph you look at is
it's aggregate, and this is notnecessarily helpful.
Here's what I mean by that it'staking in all of your sources
and all of your audience andputting it into one graph when
that's not really necessarily agreat way of looking at it.
The better way is to knock itdown by traffic source and or
(17:10):
subscriber version, so, forexample, we might look at
subscribers versus unsubscribes.
I look at those average viewdurations all the time because I
wanna know what new peoplethink of the content versus the
people that come here all thetime.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, remember, the old people are gonna watch it.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
If that's for some reason lower than the new, then
something's going on,something's off, you're right.
You made them mad or you'vedone something that they're not
down with, which is interesting,but you want to kind of have
your new viewer duration asclose as possible to the people
that come and watch you all thetime, for obvious reasons.
That means that people whodon't know who you are still
connect with your content.
If you could see that within aminute.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I feel like that's a crazy goal.
It's amazing.
I feel like that's a crazy goal, like that's a like that's
really good.
And we're talking about ondesktop, when you can break down
your analytics a little bit.
You don't have this access onmobile, but these are the things
like, if you want to take it tothe next level, when you're
talking retention graphs, theseare the things that you're
looking at because I mean, wehave, we're all YouTube obsessed
(18:06):
and we're all you know.
This is fun sometimes.
Should you let it dictate allyour decisions?
No, no, don't get carried away.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Enjoy it if it's fun for you, If it's not stay out of
the Seamore component.
This is deep.
This is the deep swamp.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
We're going to go into the deep swamp.
So not only do you have tothink about the fact that it's
aggregate, whether it's uh, youknow, your subscribers
unsubscribe, there's alsotraffic sources.
So search which we've talkedabout before is very intentional
, those tend to be shorter.
So, in other words, if yourvideo is about a review of
something, uh, you'll noticethat, generally speaking, when
(18:43):
you look at the averageiteration from search, it's
going to be shorter thaneverything else, and the reason
for that is someone searched forsomething to get an answer.
Their intention was only to getthe answer and leave.
They weren't there to watch.
Whoever you are to talk about,whatever you're talking about,
browse is usually higher andsuggested is usually higher
because-.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
I was going to say I think suggested is the highest.
I'm glad that we agree it canbe.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
It can be.
Yeah, Because browse generallyis home screen, which means
YouTube algorithmically knowsthat viewer is likely to like
your content.
Suggested tends to be in abinge session, so nine times out
of ten that person's alreadywatching a bunch of videos and
is there to watch videos, right?
So, you tend to get longer viewduration.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
You get the more dedicated viewer, but I think
you get the bigger complimentwith browse.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Oh for sure, 100%, 100%.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Browse is like oh my gosh, you picked me it really
feels that way and thensuggested was like I was up next
.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
And you like me, you like this.
I got something else for you.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Those are those moments where you're watching
something and you're like I'venever found this creator before.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
That's like that binge session.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
And it's so hard?
Because I think in the lastepisode we talked about someone
said they changed their strategyTo go from search to browse,
which is not necessarily easy,because I think in the last
episode we talked about someonesaid they changed their strategy
to go from search to blog yes.
Yeah, which is not necessarilyeasy.
It's easy to understand, onceyou understand it, that
intention of a viewer and howyou either give them their
answer and let them go, or tryto hook them to have them stick
(20:07):
around.
Once you understand that, thenyou can look at these graphs and
go.
I understand why this workedand why this didn't work.
Another thing about retentiongraphs is and here's a little
known thing once upon a time,youtube was testing showing you
when you were getting subscribesand likes and all this other
stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
They were testing it to see if they were that's a fun
little thing.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
It was amazing.
I wish that they would havereleased this.
They did not.
I did get to test it for awhile.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
It's an interesting thing, I wonder.
I mean, maybe it just wasn'tworth pursuing, so they try to
give me Like, what do you reallydo with the information it?
Speaker 1 (20:38):
was really good information, but I will say this
it rarely changed, so let megive you some information.
Was that I got away from it?
Number one number one thing Ifound out about using this is
when you ask for subscribes,most people subscribe.
That kind of surprised mesomewhat In that, previous to
that, previous to the actualdata being able to see it, there
(21:01):
was this thing that says if youask for people to subscribe,
they might subscribe, and thenthere was a lot of people saying
no, that's not, that's not,that doesn't really work,
whatever.
Well, I've seen the data.
100% it works.
Yes, it does.
It is definitive that moretimes than not, if you ask for
subscribes, you will getsubscribed.
Now, does that mean you shouldalways do it?
Well, that's a differentquestion.
I'm not answering that question.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
I'm answering.
If you ask, will they, if youbuild it, will they come?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yes, secondarily the vast majority of likes on a
video happened in like the first10 seconds.
Ooh, I have something.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
I definitely want to talk about when it comes to
likes.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I have a friend visiting for the weekend you
have friends a couple someday Iwant one, so they're visiting.
Technically I should say it'smy husband's friend oh, I was
gonna say friend, friend byassociation yeah right
contractual friendship by legalyeah and we were talking about
(22:03):
youtube, and he is.
You know, a youtube watcher cando a lot of youtube, never
likes a video I rarely do eitherhis viewing behavior which
obviously I dug into okay was heonly likes the video, doesn't
matter.
if you tell him doesn't matter,like it has to exceed his
(22:24):
expectations, okay in why heclicked on that video, that's
fair for a thumbs up.
You know what that's.
That's fair For a thumbs up,you know what I think that's
insane to me because, like as acultural thing, we like videos
before they even start.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
So I don't you what.
First of all, I didn't knowthis was a thing until I saw
this, this metric.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Oh my gosh, I'm so curious how our audience has
like split on this.
This is wild.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah, leave us a comment or an email and let us
know do you like a video?
At the very beginning.
So all that to say.
When I had access to this tooland I was like, why are people
liking things?
At the very beginning, Irealized that it doesn't even
matter if you ask for likes,because the people who are going
to like it are already going tolike it.
This is different from asubscribe.
(23:06):
The subscribes always fellwithin 15 seconds of asking for
a subscribe.
I was able to see that on theretention graph, but likes were
always bunched around thebeginning.
So people were doing it as yousay, just like at the beginning.
Yeah, and I was like it's acultural thing.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Like I like a video before I start watching it, it's
like a YouTube like culture.
That's how I would describe it.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
That's wild, is that?
Speaker 2 (23:28):
even to today?
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Now, is this only for people you're subscribed to, or
just any video?
Well see.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I think what happens is now that my viewing has
changed to like only TV.
I'm not doing that behaviorbecause I'm not liking on TV.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Sure right, you can.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
But yeah, that's just yeah, I'm just going to say
like I don't have, like, theremote in my hand and I'm not
clicking up to the side.
It's just a little much.
It's a little much.
So it's not doing anything foryou.
You're fine without it, butother than that, if I'm watching
on desktop or on my phone, 100%still to this day.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Even channels you're not necessarily familiar with.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Unless I search something.
If I search something, thenit's a test.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Then you're waiting.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Then it's genuinely a test.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
You got to earn this.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Because I feel like search videos are like, just
they're sketchy.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
They can be Like you don't?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
they're so click-beating like you don't
know if you're actually going toget your answer.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
So here's what I I think Rob Wilson brought this up
.
This is really interesting thatyou say this.
I, wilson, brought this up.
This is really interesting thatyou say this.
I wonder if and YouTube couldbe doing this.
We don't know if they're doingthis next thing or not when they
see Jen watching on TV, whichthey can tell.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
They know that you're watching on.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
TV, of course they can tell, they say welcome back.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah, welcome back on TV, and you do take the time to
like.
Yeah, do you think that's?
Weighted hyper like right, isthat?
Like well she actually shealmost never likes on tv.
That's actually weightedheavier than her overly liking
on phone, which she does all thetime.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
She's just, she's a strumpet for likes yeah, right,
yeah, she just gives it away.
Oh, my god, she doesn't dislikeor not like anything, she just
loves all content so they don'teven pay attention to that.
And then on TV.
But oh my God, she likessomething.
Oh my God, this is new superchat.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
It really is.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
I'm just going to start commenting, just want to
let you know I liked this on myTV, but I feel like, but doesn't
that?
Don't you think that's actuallyeven?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
a good way to wait If someone said that to me.
I would be like what youactually hit up on your remote
and then over and then.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I would be honored, like nobody's doing that.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
No one's doing that.
No one's doing that.
But I wonder if YouTube's doingthat.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
They're like that would be really interesting,
though, and I feel like it'sprobably something.
I feel like TV platformintegration, everything the user
experience is something thatwe're going to see a huge, huge
change with now that it's doingso well the world is different
when it comes to this year aloneit's doing so well.
And I think that we're going tosee.
I don't know what those changeswould be, but I think that's
(26:00):
going to be a really, really bigthing, because the things we're
talking even leave me a comment.
I don't leave a comment If I'mwatching on TV.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
I, if I'm watching on TV, yeah, I don't, if I really
have to.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
I will go back on my phone at some point and leave a
comment, but like it's got to beso funny, or like some, so do
you?
Speaker 1 (26:18):
How often are you leaving comments?
Speaker 2 (26:20):
in general, I leave a comment on like I feel like See
, it's hard to say If it's not.
If it's on TV, then Well,forget about TV.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
for me, no, if it's not on TV.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
I'll leave a comment on every single video.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
I watch you just give away everything, all your
engagement.
Your engagement is almostmeaningless.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
You just give it away ?
No, because it's not like ageneric comment.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
You get into what you watched.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yeah, like I would.
The nicest viewer no it'salways like a very specific part
, like if there's no part of thevideo that like gets me in any
way, then I'm like okay, thiswasn't a good video for me,
number one, but I won't leavelike just a made-up comment do
you like it if it wasn'tconnecting with you?
Speaker 1 (26:57):
is it too late?
Do you take it off?
Do I do, I retract do you everretract the light?
Have you retracted your like?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
um, I would do that on the search base, but I've
done that on search base content, just if I've noticed, and it
was like a bad video, like Iwouldn't thumbs down it, but I
would be like so do you not?
Speaker 1 (27:13):
I unliked but do you not thumbs down I?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
don't thumbs down anything because I think content
is like subjective, like justbecause I didn't think it was
good, like that thumbs down.
It's not going to alter my homepage.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I'm going to say I'm not interested if that services,
again I'm going to say I'm notinterested, so that YouTube is
like got it Okay, so we'll trynot to, but I'm not going to
hurt the creator for like whatthey think is good content.
And certainly I don't.
We talked about not all contentis for everyone, it's for
anyone.
I never leave like a hatefulcomment, Like I don't even
understand the point of that.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Oh my gosh, that's crazy to me.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
It's crazy to me, it's just wild to me, because I
mean, we don't get a lot of that.
Every so often someone will saysomething, but it's like you
literally spent the time to saysomething Like if you didn't
like it, why did you just stopwatching it?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't really understand thementality of like leaving like a
I mean definitely hatefulcontent.
I get constructive feedback.
Yeah, that's fine.
I gotta be able to handle stuff, if you want to put yourself on
the internet, absolutely.
And people are welcome to theiropinions, especially if you
open the door for that.
If you tell people let me knowwhat you think, well, you better
(28:20):
be ready for when they tell youwhat they think.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Be careful, what you're asking for, you might get
it, goodness gracious.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
But I don't get that.
But you don't leave comments.
You got to start leavingcomments.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Every once in a while .
It's pretty rare for me to likeor leave a comment, so if you
do get one from me, that's apretty big deal.
There must be a reason.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
It's so funny, I do talk in live streams.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Though I will chat in live streams from time to time
Actually more frequently thanI'll leave comments.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
I mean that's good, but like comments.
Are you shaming me.
I am comment shaming youactually.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Are you viewer?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
shaming my habits, unless you're watching content
that is like.
I mean you're just watchinglike million plus video after
video after video when like atthat point, and depending on how
old the video is like, is itreally even going to be noticed
or acknowledged?
So what's?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
interesting is it depends on what content I'm
watching that there was a timewhen I was hot and heavy in my
content that I stopped leavingcomments on other creators in my
niches content, not because Ididn't want to, but because it
became a distraction in thecomment section because viewers
knew who I was in that niche.
(29:30):
So then they would comment tome and stuff Not always nice,
sometimes nice, but sometimesnot and I'm like that's just a
distraction.
Now I feel like I'm beingdistracting and I don't want
that for that creator.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Like I was leaving a quote like this was great.
Whatever See, it was a genericcomment.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
No, no, I mean I was being specific, I'm being
generic now.
Back then I was being authentic, I was being gen-yuen, right,
but so I stopped.
Outside of my niche I wouldleave comments pretty freely,
but within my niche I wasn't.
And it was something that wasreally interesting because I had
never, in all the things thatwere in the non-existent YouTube
handbook of like things toexpect as a YouTuber, that was
(30:07):
not one of them.
It was not in there To like.
You know, people are, forbetter or worse, going to
recognize you in your niche andif you, no matter what you do,
someone's going to be mean toyou.
So, for example, in these we'retalking about retention graphs
a little bit here.
We're almost done that.
We're talking about otherthings now, but you might see
drop-offs in certain things.
You say something particularlyhot take-ish, which I actually
(30:30):
like people taking a definitive.
I feel like in content creation, if you want good performing
stuff, you take a hard line onsomething, you pick a lane.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I think that's true.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
And you will find that you'll get more success
there.
But when you do that, just knowpeople out there are coming for
your neck.
So when you say something, yourattention graph might go
everything's great, everything'sgreat.
Candy corn's good, oh, it'sdown.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Everyone left.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
And you know we take those because as soon as we say
cat breaks are great, it goesright back up.
And then we brought everyoneback.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
My favorite now are the YouTube disclaimers
everyone's making before theysay an opinion or after it.
It's like, oh, just say whatyou want to say.
Everyone's like oh, my gosh,that's like me being like well,
I love candy corn, but it's okayif you don't like candy corn
and if you kind of like it ohyeah, that's also okay, but if
you've never, had it.
(31:25):
I don't want you to feel badbecause you've never had it, so
I didn't want to offend you ifyou don't have the opportunity
to try it because you liveoverseas, so I think candy
corn's good though yeah, it'stoo much.
It's too much, just say you likeit and everyone else okay, like
I get that there are thingsthat can absolutely offend
someone, but I think a lot ofthe times just kind of it's okay
to just be like candy corn isthe best right and if you hate
(31:47):
it, you hate it, but like at theend of the day, it's still just
candy.
Yeah, it's fine but, like I, Ijust think that we have such a
culture now where like that isbecoming so popular.
I see it all the time incontent where people are just
kind of hedging their bets oh mygosh, so much really oh my gosh
really just like I would say.
I feel like I just saw onerecently, like in a fashion
(32:09):
video, where it was like a trendand it was like, well, I don't
like the trend, but it's okay ifyou do, and I can see why you
would like it, because it couldlook good and blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
But and then they just did thiswhole run around to being like
okay, um moving on, I've youknow what I actually think.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
I know why they're doing this because in certain
situations I have donesimilar-ish things in older
content and I almost guaranteeyou this is why they're doing it
, because they say the thingyeah and then in their mind
they're going this is thecomment someone's going to leave
, so they answer that commentyeah and then this is the
comment that person can leave.
let me answer that comment.
Oh, and this is the comment,and let me answer that comment.
So they're trying to answer thecomments before they're left.
Yeah, by saying well, it's okayif you don't, but if you do,
(32:54):
but if you don't, but if you do,but if you don't.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
And then nobody cares and nobody comments, and nobody
comments.
It's almost worse, which isalmost worse.
I think it's a thousand timesworse and I, you know I get not
wanting to hurt someone'sfeelings, but if you do, it's
totally fine.
Just be a human and be like hey, sorry, I didn't mean.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
I didn't mean something by it.
If your feelings are hurt aboutliking candy corn, then you
probably need to be watchingsomething else, that's what I'm
saying.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I'm not apologizing for it.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Why?
That's where we were talkingabout dips, the retention graph,
but let's talk about the introsretention graph okay, that's
great, because are important.
I feel like this is a real hyperfixation for so many creators,
where it's like even people whowould come into coaching and be
like I just gotta work on myretention, I gotta work on my
first 30 seconds, I gotta workon my hook.
I work on my intro because itfeels like there's so much
(33:44):
pressure on that that like therest of the video like solely
revolves around that moment andwhat that percent looks like and
what that drop off looks like.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
So let's talk about a couple of things that are real
and then you can you can uh, asa viewer can consider these
things into what you think isimportant.
Here's a real thing If peopleare watching on um desktop and I
do this if you mouse over, yourvideo starts playing and a
subtitle shows over top of it.
So I believe this comes fromback in the day when you used to
(34:15):
hover over and people wouldhard code in the subtitles.
But now YouTube kind of does itfor you.
So what people are doing andwhat I'm doing same thing is
I've seen the title andthumbnail.
I'm now hovering over it.
I'm not even fully committed.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Whoa whoa, whoa, whoa , you have a hover step.
I hover and I wait to see whatit said.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Video like what's going on, bro.
I've seen so many, so many fromback in the day before I was a
creator and I was just a viewer.
I hated seeing a thumbnailwhere I didn't see anything that
was in the thumbnail in thevideo that that upset me okay,
go back to this hover, thoughI'm, I'm I hover all the time
about this, so when I'm ondesktop, what are?
Speaker 2 (34:48):
you looking for the hover?
Speaker 1 (34:49):
I'm just trying to see what's going on.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
So, like if I see a video that's like I don't know
12 ways to be the best personyou can be, I'm like all right,
let me put my mouse over top ofit.
Let me see what he says and shesays in the very beginning of
the video and what kind ofvisuals are going on.
Interesting.
I only hover for like maybe 10,15 seconds because I can read
what they're saying because,it's all there.
Youtube's putting the subtitlesup, and if it's good enough
(35:15):
then I'll click.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Do you rewind?
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Sometimes, but I mean for the most part when you
click it it's already to whereyou were watching.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
No, that's what I'm saying, like, if I hover and
then I click, I go back.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
I sometimes do yeah, yeah.
So I think that I'm not theonly one doing this.
The reason I think that isbecause the subtitling wasn't
always there, but now, it is soI believe, and Tom Bupre from
YouTube has said that, like thishover thing is a new kind of.
It's not a click through rate.
There's not.
They don't even have a metricthat shows to us which they
should get around to doing, andmaybe they will.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, who's who's hovering, hovering Um, but
that's important.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
But that's important because if I see the title I'm
like I'm almost committed, but Ineed to see what's going on.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
That would be way better than our retention graphs
, to be honest.
It would be Because it's justlike it's that final step where
it's like you had youropportunities.
This was the final straw andthey still didn't click.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Wow, you just broke my brain.
That's a great idea.
That's a great idea.
They hovered and didn't click.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
The hover did not click.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
The hover did not click.
Yeah, so we're talking titlethumbnail and that opening hug.
They were all not strong enough.
I'm going to clip this part outand I'm going to send it to
Rene Ritchie to have him watchthis part.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Okay, Rene so.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
I think that's.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Get at me.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Hit me up while I have his number, but I think
that would be a reallyinteresting thing because it
would tell us if our hooks areworking, so you get to see the
click.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
It'll tell us if our hooks are hooking, if it's
complimenting, if you'reprofessional hooking no.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah, I think less than I think, because you can
kind of see that in theretention graph Someone actually
clicks through right.
Yeah, this is a differentperson, this is a person that's
almost committed.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
But they're just trying to decide whether or it's
did you can?
Yeah, it is.
It is like it's your hook.
Really good to convince, butdid it push them over the edge?
Because the person that'sclicked, was convinced by your
thumbnail title.
For me, that's a differentperson than someone who's
hovering A hover hasn't decided,a clicker has decided whether
or not they, whether they clickoff or not, is a different story
(37:14):
.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
They were like OK, they were committed.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
I want to know the people that are on the fence.
Did I convince them or not?
That would be a cool metric.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
You're welcome, renee .
Yeah, all right, it's aninteresting one.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
So now we just see when people click in and they
click off, which you're going tosee, no matter what.
I've yet to see a retentiongraph with zero dip.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Oh, yeah, yeah, Impossible.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Like we're not looking for an actual straight
line like that.
I I have never seen that.
I would love if there is someyoutube like world breaking
retention graph where it's justlike straight across it was the
best video ever.
Like no one's ever clickednobody's ever clicked off,
nobody's accidentally clickedout, nothing nothing, yeah,
impossible, impossible, allright.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
So, um, that was a lot.
Let's, uh, let's get into ourlittle fun little bit here.
Uh, I believe the last time wetried some candy that I liked.
What do you have, uh, for metoday?
Yeah, let's see because, uh,we're, because we are an
unofficial candy, podcast.
We hope that you enjoy.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I actually have a candy.
What time are we at, actually?
Speaker 1 (38:30):
We're good, yeah, we're good.
We're what we're at 39.
Yeah, we're good, we are good.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
And retention graph.
I thought was going to be themost difficult.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
No, no, no, I told you See you worry about things,
I going to be the most difficult?
No, no, I don't know.
I told you, see, you worryabout things.
I'm like, I'm not worried atall, like we just talk.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
I've never had these but these are what is that?
Warhead taffies.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Okay, I'm aware of warheads, tropical fusion.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Yeah, I saw regular warheads.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
But you know I sister not only in all these podcasts
but like outside of it.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
She sounds fascinating.
My sister's awesome sounds.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
That's why, yeah, okay, do you want are they
different?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
I guess I want paradise punch that sounds like
me, or citrus surf those bothsound great.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Give me one or the other I feel like these are
gonna be.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
I'll give you blue because obviously blue is always
.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
No wait, I love blue.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
You said you like green, don't you?
Speaker 1 (39:23):
I like blue and green .
Blue and green are my favoritecolors.
Oh well, you can get.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
I have more than in the bag All right.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
So what was the remind?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
me, I'll try the same one as you.
What was the thing of WarheadsParadise acid?
They're literally.
That sounds terrible.
It doesn't sound so much worse,really bad okay, but these are
taffy.
So I was like it's so funny too.
I almost got the warheads, butI was like, oh, everybody's had
(39:49):
a warhead.
Little do I know these lookgood, though, actually I'll
bring warheads for the next one,and I was also like these might
be a little less sour than likea regular warhead very
plasticky, but your flavor isgood, but it's like plastic oh,
it's very plasticky and verypossible.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Can you look up the percentage of plastic in this?
Speaker 2 (40:12):
well, I can almost promise there's definitely red
40 anyway, oh yeah, we go forthe healthy stuff Around here.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
What does it say?
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Red 40.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Is that one of the things that's going to be banned
At the end of the year?
Speaker 2 (40:28):
I think it is.
Why is this so hard to eat?
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Oh it's very hard to eat.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
It's like Kind of making me drool A little bit, it
doesn't go away Right.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Well, if you like the podcast, of course you can
always Leave us.
All right.
Well, if you like the podcast,of course you can always leave
us.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Wow, I can't do the outro, oh my gosh, did you put
the whole thing?
Did you just commit to thewhole thing?
Speaker 1 (40:45):
I didn't know.
You weren't supposed to, areyou not?
Speaker 2 (40:48):
supposed to?
I don't know, I've never hadthem before, but I just took a
bite.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
This is very difficult.
All right, if you're new here,I don't know that you're here
anymore.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Today I'm on our channel.
Now I'm eating taffy.
We understand if you don't comeback.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
I can totally understand if you never come
back.
We'll see you next time, jen,tell them goodbye.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Alright, we'll see you in the next episode, but
don't forget to leave us a fivestar review only.
And actually I think the nextepisode we're going to kind of
be going over some things aboutourselves as creators.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Exposed.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Exposed.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
See you in that one.
Welcome back to the only podcast where one of us has
great taste in candy and theother doesn't.
I'm not going to say which iswhich.
I'm Travis and I'm here withJen yet again.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hello everyone.
Hello, I have the great taste.
That's the spoiler.
It was me.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Great taste, less filling.
Welcome to the only podcast inthe world that talks about both
candy, youtube growth andeverything else.
My name is Travis.
Of course, jen is here and we'dlove to help you grow your
YouTube channels.
We're going to do a quick hithere.
Some news came out.
I don't know if this is truethis thing is.
It's hard to verify somethinglike this, but let's talk about
(00:35):
it anyway.
Allegedly, tiktok is now thesecond most streamed platform,
above Twitch in this firstquarter of 2025.
Youtube being first, apparentlyTikTok second, and then Twitch
being third.
This is very interesting.
Whether or not it's true ishard to verify.
A little hearsay, hearsay Alittle hearsay, but the fact
that there's any data at allthat would even back that up is
(00:55):
interesting.
I guess I didn't even realizeit.
I guess I knew their TikTok hadlive stream, but I didn't use
it.
I know you've ticked theoccasional talk.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, tiktok, lives are like where it's at.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
What happens on a TikTok live.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Anything Like, literally anything Like.
People go live all the timedoing all kinds of stuff.
You don't need any kind ofrelationship to that person to
like watch what they're doing.
It's so disconnected and ofcourse some are not but it's
literally like an unfilteredyoutube video in that sense
where you're discovering contentand you're just watching it
(01:34):
live do you think the way theydo their live streams in some
way is better than thehorizontal or vertical format on
youtube?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
live streaming is it?
Is it it feel entertaining ordoes it just feel like a bunch
of people just doing things thatdon't make any sense?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I've never seen a YouTube vertical live.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I've had creators that have experimented with them
, so I've seen that, but I'venever been on YouTube because I
don't watch shorts.
You're probably not the onlyone who have never seen one,
right.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
You're probably not the only one who have never seen
one.
Right, you're probably not theonly one.
So, with that being said, whatabout tiktok?
Lives are interesting to you,because I want to understand
this as a viewer of them,occasional viewer.
Uh, like, what's the what's thething?
Like, what makes it interestingor cool, or whatever?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
all right.
You're just kind of like it'sso passive.
You're just kind of likepopping in seeing what's going.
You're just kind of likepopping in seeing what's going
on and then leaving.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Oh, very disposable.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Like it's not yeah, that's what I'm saying Like
there's no community, there's noviewer connection, like it's
just an unedited video.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah, I feel like I've said this for years that
short-form content really leadsto.
I mean, it's very hard to havean actual community behind it
leads to.
I mean, it's very hard to havean actual community behind it.
You can have followers andstuff, but really they haven't
really built a connection to youin most cases.
I think there's a ton and more.
Quote large TikTokers that havea very empty audience.
(02:55):
They don't really have agenuine connection to them.
Then there are smaller YouTubersthat actually have an audience
that really cares about thembecause it's so disposable, it's
so quick.
It's like I've watched you for30 seconds.
What kind of connection can Ihave with you in 30 seconds?
I don't I connect with thecontent.
I might think it's funny.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Maybe there are the occasion people have like that
genesis yeah, I think you couldstumble upon people that you're
just like, oh, I just like vibewith you but, right, all in all,
like it's not really the point,you're really watching for
whatever they're doing or sayingand like how many times have
you thought of like a funnytiktok or real or short, and
(03:31):
then like you couldn't find thatto save your life like you
would have?
no, this has happened to me somany times right where, if you
didn't send it to someone, likethat's gone on the internet,
you're never gonna find it again.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah it's interesting because, like, as you're
talking about live stream onTikTok and just kind of anything
, I'm like it might be kind offun to just randomly do some
live streams and just whatever,but to what you just said, it's
like if you can't even find themlater not that they can't be
found, but like it's harder forthe average person to find them.
It almost feels like even thelive streams are disposable and
(04:03):
for me I always go, then what'sthe point?
That's always what I come backto.
Money, to be clear.
Well, okay, money, but like howmuch money can like a smaller
creator?
And I don't know the answer tothis.
I'm not saying this to be aleading question, but how much
money do you think a smallercreator could make?
Live stream on TikTok?
(04:26):
And I guess, when I say smaller10 000 followers, I go, I don't,
I don't know, I don't know,like the monetary rates on
tiktok, but can't the peoplelike gift things and stuff.
Yeah, have you ever giftedanything to a live streamer?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
no, on any platform oh yeah, I send like super chats
to my friend and stuff like allthe time oh, your friend, but
this is your friend uh, yeah,never a stranger interesting see
.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I've super chatted a lot of people on YouTube.
I've super chatted.
A lot of creators I've watchedfor various reasons.
Just depends on what it's no.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I've never like crowd participating, crowd funding,
anyone that I didn't know,actually.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
So you're basically money laundering.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I am money laundering to all of my creator friends,
which is wild.
Except they don't get to takehome half of it.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
That's what I'm saying.
That's the funny thing You'reactually paying YouTube to pay
your friend, which is kind ofwild.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
What happens is it starts to train.
If I send a $20 Super Chat, theSuper Chats are flowing in.
It's a strategy.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
It's not like here's $20.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
You're so poor.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Very smart.
How often does this work?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
you're so poor, right ?
No very smart.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
How often does this work?
I mean anytime, like my friendsare live on any platform, so we
all do it for each other likeit's a community tactic wait.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So then other people naturally seem to oh yeah I
believe that I mean back in theday all of us were financially
crowdfunded.
We did not make like an incomefrom like ads.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, you were basically like, it's almost like
.
Yeah, you're basically doinglike a pyramid scheme between
each other.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
It's crazy.
It's crazy Like people are likeoh, like you hear those stories
where, like smaller channelsand stuff, like they make so
much money, or like maybe youwant to go sign up for a course
or something.
It's like I've made twentythousand dollars with ten
thousand subscribers orsomething but like it's true it
happens, like it's just not,it's just looking past outside
(06:15):
adsense very smart, uh, and Iguess you could do, but that's
also like deep community, likeyeah you have to have a strong
community which is interestingbecause we just did an episode
on community, so you need towatch that.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
That was, and we didn't talk about crowdfunding
yeah, so we kind of left thatout.
That's all right, but that'swhy you watch one episode to
watch the other so every episodeis like, unofficially, a call
to action to the previous one.
Yes, usually what you do in alot of youtube videos is you do
point back to an older video.
We do it on accident.
You're supposed to do it onpurpose.
Yeah, we do a complete accidentbecause we forget to talk about
(06:51):
things.
Yeah but I feel like so crazy.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
So I mean the live stream on tiktok.
I don't know, I would.
I just I believe it.
I don't know, do people likescroll on twitch, like who's
discovering things on Twitch?
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Twitch is definitely more about communities.
And a lot of people who streamon YouTube and Twitch tend to
like the way the community isbuilt on Twitch better than
YouTube.
But ironically, I think thereason for that is one of the
strengths of YouTube, which isthere is a discovery engine for
YouTube.
Many times I have beenrecommended live streams of
people that are only like 10people streaming only 10 people
(07:27):
watching.
You almost never see that ontwitch.
Like everything that's on theside of like you might like
these are all like hundreds ofpeople, so like they're bigger
channels.
You see this on youtube all thetime.
You'll see I see smalleryoutubers live streaming all the
time.
I always get that.
but the problem with that is I'ma random person going in there
and if I'm a mean person I mightjust say mean stuff true which,
a couple episodes ago, talkingto Trisha Hershberger, she
mentioned the like algorithmicaudience and how she feels sorry
(07:51):
for those people, which is whyshe mainly streams on twitch to
her community, because when shestreams elsewhere, there's so
many quote random people, umthat, and a lot of those people
tend to be toxic, which isreally interesting.
So, um, the question is is, isTikTok really second?
But even if they aren't now,they could be later, but it
sounds like the community-basedstreaming in some ways is best
(08:11):
on Twitch.
Let us know what you think ofthat.
Certainly, send us a message,but we actually have a question
from one of you and you canalways send us a question from
the Boost by emailing us attheboostvidIQcom, and this one
is from Jace.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, so this one is going to kind of set off the
whole, well, portion of thisepisode at least, talking about
retention.
Ah and pretty much to sum thisup is is your retention good or
bad?
It's terrible, and how do youknow?
How do you even know what'sgood or bad?
(08:45):
And I saw this so much incoaching because retention
graphs are like a sacred thing.
It's not even like I love them.
They're so secret, they're justlike not talked about, though,
right, they feel like a sacredthing, like who's going around,
like starting a you know, Idon't know group chat, just
sending each other retentiongraphs.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
I would.
I, you know, I don't know groupchat, just sending each other
retention graphs I would.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I love retention graphs.
That's a tough one, so it'shard to know what is actually
the same way.
It's like what's a good CPM,what's a good RPM?
Like it's so differentdepending on the content and the
creator and there's so manyvariables that go in it it's
hard to know what's good or bad.
So what is a good or badretention graph?
(09:26):
Where do we start?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
what's?
Let's explain.
So in this one, jace is talkingspecifically about shorts.
So we got to be really specificabout the fact that, depending
on the length of video, goodmeans something completely
different.
So in these screenshots heshows he's showing things above
100 okay it's important to know.
You're almost never going to seethat on a long form content
video, it's very rare you'reever going to see something
above 100.
(09:47):
But in shorts you should almostalways see something above 100
if you want a good performingshort.
So to understand like what goodis is very relative.
Very relative it's relative tothe content, the length of the
content, the style of content,where the content was watched,
(10:07):
and the only thing that reallymatters in the end is did you
get more impressions?
I feel like, because you can'tcontrol views.
Views are a matter of someonechoosing someone's choosing to
click your thumbnail and titlebased off the topic you selected
.
You have control over thethumbnail, title and the content
.
Youtube then looks at all thatstuff and how people interact
(10:28):
with it and gives you moreimpressions.
You can say I want more views.
Really, you want moreimpressions.
Views is something that's out ofyour control.
Impressions are too, but youreally want more impressions for
what you're putting intoYouTube.
Once you get those and you getmore views, if you get more
impressions, you've succeeded.
Your content, your thumbnailtitle and everything matched
your retention is the thing youlook at after the fact to go.
Did people even care or wasthis like a clickbait?
(10:49):
Did people click the first 10seconds and go?
This is what I wanted to watch.
And then they watch and they'relike why am I watching Joe the
Plumber when I wanted to watch achocolate cake video?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
That's true.
So it sounds like we're kind ofdebunking a lot of retention
myths, a lot of retentionexpectations, and, starting with
getting familiar with yourretention graph, we'll even just
like back it up and explain,you know, for people that are,
you know, new to even looking atthese, what we're actually
looking at.
And this graph is, of course,your video, and the line going
through is how many people arestill watching it, and the dips
(11:32):
are people skipping ahead orabandoning, and then, of course,
the spikes are people clickingback, and all these things can
kind of be for good or badthings.
So spikes don't necessarilymean a good thing.
It can actually be like afrustrated viewer who can't
understand what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
It's just clicking back for whatever reason.
Maybe you had text on screenthat was not long enough and
someone couldn't read it, so,while it may give you a spike,
it might not be a positiveviewing experience, but
typically spikes are somethingthat people re-watched or
skipped ahead to watch.
So a lot of times retentiongraphs, depending on the type of
video, have an entirelydifferent line.
(12:13):
Like we're not looking at astandard slope if we're looking
at a video.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
If we put out a video that was like here's 10 ways to
grow your youtube channel,everyone's going to skip ahead
to every single reason and it'sgoing to look like this and we
put timestamps on all our videos, and so you'll see these little
tent-looking things at thetimestamps because people are
clicking around figuring outwhat they want to watch Yep.
So yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
So does that make it good or bad?
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I think, yeah, it really depends.
It's not necessarily a badthing.
And, by the way, people go well, won't that hurt your average
view duration?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Oh, I love this.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Well, yes, but does that mean that it hurts your
impressions, which is what youreally want?
To get more views, notnecessarily.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
No.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
As a matter of fact, if you are giving people what
they want, there are othersignals that YouTube takes a
look at when someone's watchingsomething, to indicate whether
they're gonna get you moreimpressions.
When we say something's a goodvideo, it's relative, right.
So I guess really what I'msaying is you're getting more
impressions to get moreopportunities for views.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
So if someone skips to the middle of your video but
everyone skips to the middle ofyour video and then watches a
whole long section and thenmaybe comes back to your channel
later but doesn't watch the outof that video, even though they
didn't watch the whole thing,that's okay.
Most videos that get like tonsof views the average view
(13:31):
duration retention is bad.
It's very bad because it'sbeing shown to new people, which
is a good thing, right?
Yes, the more new people thatsee your videos, the worse your
retention becomes.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
And the more people in general who just see it, the
worse it becomes.
Yes, we see this a lot, wherepeople send in like these
beautiful, beautiful retentiongraphs and you know they finish
at like 50, 60 percent andthere's barely any drop off but
it has, you know, 50 views andthose are like the 50 most loyal
, most dedicated.
You could put out any singlevideo in the world and your
retention graph is going to lookthe same.
(14:06):
That doesn't mean you've earnedthe right to more impressions.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yes, you can have excellent retention and not get
any more impressions, and peoplewill often say, well, okay, my
retention is really good, it'shigher than ever before, but I
didn't get hardly any views.
I have a video.
I wish I could remember whatthe exact number is.
It's so impressive.
The retention was so goodbecause I specifically went out
to try to make it high retentionhigh retention at the end.
I think.
It was like it's like a four orfive minute video and I think I
(14:33):
had like 70% of the people atthe last 20 seconds of the video
, which is insane, one of mylower performing videos, despite
the fact that, like it had beentargeted well and all this
other thing.
It just didn't work out thatway.
So why?
There's a lot of reasons, andsome of which goes back to the
thing that Jen and I say a lotof times is some things are just
what they are and you can'tworry about them.
(14:54):
There's nothing you can doabout it.
There's nothing you can doabout it.
Did you do a good job?
Congrats, congrats.
You get your 12 views.
It is what it.
But I think you can learnthings from it.
So I learned something early onfrom retention graphs when I
used to watch, when I used tomake videos and look at the
retention graph to see what wasI doing wrong.
Right, I found that if I wasoff the camera too long, my
(15:14):
retention dropped, but if I wason the camera too long, my
retention would drop.
So I had to find this balancebetween showing b-roll and then
showing myself in this balancethat people seem to like.
If I was away too long, I thinkmaybe they weren't connecting
with me as much.
If I was on too long, theyweren't understanding what I was
talking about because I wasn'tvisually showing it.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
So the mix seemed to work out after I figured that
out, and that's where you canuse retention graphs to help
elevate yourself.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I like that.
I like that you used it as acreator, to how to better
yourself as a creator, yeah, andkeeping your audience in mind.
But you know who I want toblame for this, mr.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Beast, beast.
I knew you were going to say it.
Mr Beast started this crap.
The Mr Beast editing yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Mr Beast started like if your video doesn't finish at
50% retention, it sucks.
Yeah, everything sucks to himthough, but that's one in
unrealistic expectation it is.
I have seen several I evenstill have screenshots of over 1
million view videos that havethe retention between 4%.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Wow, I've never seen that before.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
To 14%.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
And what's the length of the video generally?
Speaker 2 (16:21):
16, 17 minutes.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
And like I'm talking steady through, like 12 through
the whole video three percentthrough the whole video,
immediate click off and continueto be surfaced wow insane, and
I mean there's always anexception to the rule for like
that extreme, but I would say onaverage.
I've seen like million plusretention graphs in the 20s, if
(16:46):
they're lucky.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Now here's another thing a lot of people don't talk
about when they talk aboutretention graphs.
The problem with the generalretention graph you look at is
it's aggregate, and this is notnecessarily helpful.
Here's what I mean by that it'staking in all of your sources
and all of your audience andputting it into one graph when
that's not really necessarily agreat way of looking at it.
The better way is to knock itdown by traffic source and or
(17:10):
subscriber version, so, forexample, we might look at
subscribers versus unsubscribes.
I look at those average viewdurations all the time because I
wanna know what new peoplethink of the content versus the
people that come here all thetime.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, remember, the old people are gonna watch it.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
If that's for some reason lower than the new, then
something's going on,something's off, you're right.
You made them mad or you'vedone something that they're not
down with, which is interesting,but you want to kind of have
your new viewer duration asclose as possible to the people
that come and watch you all thetime, for obvious reasons.
That means that people whodon't know who you are still
connect with your content.
If you could see that within aminute.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I feel like that's a crazy goal.
It's amazing.
I feel like that's a crazy goal, like that's a like that's
really good.
And we're talking about ondesktop, when you can break down
your analytics a little bit.
You don't have this access onmobile, but these are the things
like, if you want to take it tothe next level, when you're
talking retention graphs, theseare the things that you're
looking at because I mean, wehave, we're all YouTube obsessed
(18:06):
and we're all you know.
This is fun sometimes.
Should you let it dictate allyour decisions?
No, no, don't get carried away.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Enjoy it if it's fun for you, If it's not stay out of
the Seamore component.
This is deep.
This is the deep swamp.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
We're going to go into the deep swamp.
So not only do you have tothink about the fact that it's
aggregate, whether it's uh, youknow, your subscribers
unsubscribe, there's alsotraffic sources.
So search which we've talkedabout before is very intentional
, those tend to be shorter.
So, in other words, if yourvideo is about a review of
something, uh, you'll noticethat, generally speaking, when
(18:43):
you look at the averageiteration from search, it's
going to be shorter thaneverything else, and the reason
for that is someone searched forsomething to get an answer.
Their intention was only to getthe answer and leave.
They weren't there to watch.
Whoever you are to talk about,whatever you're talking about,
browse is usually higher andsuggested is usually higher
because-.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
I was going to say I think suggested is the highest.
I'm glad that we agree it canbe.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
It can be.
Yeah, Because browse generallyis home screen, which means
YouTube algorithmically knowsthat viewer is likely to like
your content.
Suggested tends to be in abinge session, so nine times out
of ten that person's alreadywatching a bunch of videos and
is there to watch videos, right?
So, you tend to get longer viewduration.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
You get the more dedicated viewer, but I think
you get the bigger complimentwith browse.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Oh for sure, 100%, 100%.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Browse is like oh my gosh, you picked me it really
feels that way and thensuggested was like I was up next
.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
And you like me, you like this.
I got something else for you.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Those are those moments where you're watching
something and you're like I'venever found this creator before.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
That's like that binge session.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
And it's so hard?
Because I think in the lastepisode we talked about someone
said they changed their strategyTo go from search to browse,
which is not necessarily easy,because I think in the last
episode we talked about someonesaid they changed their strategy
to go from search to blog yes.
Yeah, which is not necessarilyeasy.
It's easy to understand, onceyou understand it, that
intention of a viewer and howyou either give them their
answer and let them go, or tryto hook them to have them stick
(20:07):
around.
Once you understand that, thenyou can look at these graphs and
go.
I understand why this workedand why this didn't work.
Another thing about retentiongraphs is and here's a little
known thing once upon a time,youtube was testing showing you
when you were getting subscribesand likes and all this other
stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
They were testing it to see if they were that's a fun
little thing.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
It was amazing.
I wish that they would havereleased this.
They did not.
I did get to test it for awhile.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
It's an interesting thing, I wonder.
I mean, maybe it just wasn'tworth pursuing, so they try to
give me Like, what do you reallydo with the information it?
Speaker 1 (20:38):
was really good information, but I will say this
it rarely changed, so let megive you some information.
Was that I got away from it?
Number one number one thing Ifound out about using this is
when you ask for subscribes,most people subscribe.
That kind of surprised mesomewhat In that, previous to
that, previous to the actualdata being able to see it, there
(21:01):
was this thing that says if youask for people to subscribe,
they might subscribe, and thenthere was a lot of people saying
no, that's not, that's not,that doesn't really work,
whatever.
Well, I've seen the data.
100% it works.
Yes, it does.
It is definitive that moretimes than not, if you ask for
subscribes, you will getsubscribed.
Now, does that mean you shouldalways do it?
Well, that's a differentquestion.
I'm not answering that question.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
I'm answering.
If you ask, will they, if youbuild it, will they come?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yes, secondarily the vast majority of likes on a
video happened in like the first10 seconds.
Ooh, I have something.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
I definitely want to talk about when it comes to
likes.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I have a friend visiting for the weekend you
have friends a couple someday Iwant one, so they're visiting.
Technically I should say it'smy husband's friend oh, I was
gonna say friend, friend byassociation yeah right
contractual friendship by legalyeah and we were talking about
(22:03):
youtube, and he is.
You know, a youtube watcher cando a lot of youtube, never
likes a video I rarely do eitherhis viewing behavior which
obviously I dug into okay was heonly likes the video, doesn't
matter.
if you tell him doesn't matter,like it has to exceed his
(22:24):
expectations, okay in why heclicked on that video, that's
fair for a thumbs up.
You know what that's.
That's fair For a thumbs up,you know what I think that's
insane to me because, like as acultural thing, we like videos
before they even start.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
So I don't you what.
First of all, I didn't knowthis was a thing until I saw
this, this metric.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Oh my gosh, I'm so curious how our audience has
like split on this.
This is wild.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah, leave us a comment or an email and let us
know do you like a video?
At the very beginning.
So all that to say.
When I had access to this tooland I was like, why are people
liking things?
At the very beginning, Irealized that it doesn't even
matter if you ask for likes,because the people who are going
to like it are already going tolike it.
This is different from asubscribe.
(23:06):
The subscribes always fellwithin 15 seconds of asking for
a subscribe.
I was able to see that on theretention graph, but likes were
always bunched around thebeginning.
So people were doing it as yousay, just like at the beginning.
Yeah, and I was like it's acultural thing.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Like I like a video before I start watching it, it's
like a YouTube like culture.
That's how I would describe it.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
That's wild, is that?
Speaker 2 (23:28):
even to today?
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Now, is this only for people you're subscribed to, or
just any video?
Well see.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I think what happens is now that my viewing has
changed to like only TV.
I'm not doing that behaviorbecause I'm not liking on TV.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Sure right, you can.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
But yeah, that's just yeah, I'm just going to say
like I don't have, like, theremote in my hand and I'm not
clicking up to the side.
It's just a little much.
It's a little much.
So it's not doing anything foryou.
You're fine without it, butother than that, if I'm watching
on desktop or on my phone, 100%still to this day.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Even channels you're not necessarily familiar with.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Unless I search something.
If I search something, thenit's a test.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Then you're waiting.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Then it's genuinely a test.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
You got to earn this.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Because I feel like search videos are like, just
they're sketchy.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
They can be Like you don't?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
they're so click-beating like you don't
know if you're actually going toget your answer.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
So here's what I I think Rob Wilson brought this up
.
This is really interesting thatyou say this.
I, wilson, brought this up.
This is really interesting thatyou say this.
I wonder if and YouTube couldbe doing this.
We don't know if they're doingthis next thing or not when they
see Jen watching on TV, whichthey can tell.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
They know that you're watching on.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
TV, of course they can tell, they say welcome back.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah, welcome back on TV, and you do take the time to
like.
Yeah, do you think that's?
Weighted hyper like right, isthat?
Like well she actually shealmost never likes on tv.
That's actually weightedheavier than her overly liking
on phone, which she does all thetime.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
She's just, she's a strumpet for likes yeah, right,
yeah, she just gives it away.
Oh, my god, she doesn't dislikeor not like anything, she just
loves all content so they don'teven pay attention to that.
And then on TV.
But oh my God, she likessomething.
Oh my God, this is new superchat.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
It really is.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
I'm just going to start commenting, just want to
let you know I liked this on myTV, but I feel like, but doesn't
that?
Don't you think that's actuallyeven?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
a good way to wait If someone said that to me.
I would be like what youactually hit up on your remote
and then over and then.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I would be honored, like nobody's doing that.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
No one's doing that.
No one's doing that.
But I wonder if YouTube's doingthat.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
They're like that would be really interesting,
though, and I feel like it'sprobably something.
I feel like TV platformintegration, everything the user
experience is something thatwe're going to see a huge, huge
change with now that it's doingso well the world is different
when it comes to this year aloneit's doing so well.
And I think that we're going tosee.
I don't know what those changeswould be, but I think that's
(26:00):
going to be a really, really bigthing, because the things we're
talking even leave me a comment.
I don't leave a comment If I'mwatching on TV.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
I, if I'm watching on TV, yeah, I don't, if I really
have to.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
I will go back on my phone at some point and leave a
comment, but like it's got to beso funny, or like some, so do
you?
Speaker 1 (26:18):
How often are you leaving comments?
Speaker 2 (26:20):
in general, I leave a comment on like I feel like See
, it's hard to say If it's not.
If it's on TV, then Well,forget about TV.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
for me, no, if it's not on TV.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
I'll leave a comment on every single video.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
I watch you just give away everything, all your
engagement.
Your engagement is almostmeaningless.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
You just give it away ?
No, because it's not like ageneric comment.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
You get into what you watched.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yeah, like I would.
The nicest viewer no it'salways like a very specific part
, like if there's no part of thevideo that like gets me in any
way, then I'm like okay, thiswasn't a good video for me,
number one, but I won't leavelike just a made-up comment do
you like it if it wasn'tconnecting with you?
Speaker 1 (26:57):
is it too late?
Do you take it off?
Do I do, I retract do you everretract the light?
Have you retracted your like?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
um, I would do that on the search base, but I've
done that on search base content, just if I've noticed, and it
was like a bad video, like Iwouldn't thumbs down it, but I
would be like so do you not?
Speaker 1 (27:13):
I unliked but do you not thumbs down I?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
don't thumbs down anything because I think content
is like subjective, like justbecause I didn't think it was
good, like that thumbs down.
It's not going to alter my homepage.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I'm going to say I'm not interested if that services,
again I'm going to say I'm notinterested, so that YouTube is
like got it Okay, so we'll trynot to, but I'm not going to
hurt the creator for like whatthey think is good content.
And certainly I don't.
We talked about not all contentis for everyone, it's for
anyone.
I never leave like a hatefulcomment, Like I don't even
understand the point of that.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Oh my gosh, that's crazy to me.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
It's crazy to me, it's just wild to me, because I
mean, we don't get a lot of that.
Every so often someone will saysomething, but it's like you
literally spent the time to saysomething Like if you didn't
like it, why did you just stopwatching it?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't really understand thementality of like leaving like a
I mean definitely hatefulcontent.
I get constructive feedback.
Yeah, that's fine.
I gotta be able to handle stuff, if you want to put yourself on
the internet, absolutely.
And people are welcome to theiropinions, especially if you
open the door for that.
If you tell people let me knowwhat you think, well, you better
(28:20):
be ready for when they tell youwhat they think.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Be careful, what you're asking for, you might get
it, goodness gracious.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
But I don't get that.
But you don't leave comments.
You got to start leavingcomments.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Every once in a while .
It's pretty rare for me to likeor leave a comment, so if you
do get one from me, that's apretty big deal.
There must be a reason.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
It's so funny, I do talk in live streams.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Though I will chat in live streams from time to time
Actually more frequently thanI'll leave comments.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
I mean that's good, but like comments.
Are you shaming me.
I am comment shaming youactually.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Are you viewer?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
shaming my habits, unless you're watching content
that is like.
I mean you're just watchinglike million plus video after
video after video when like atthat point, and depending on how
old the video is like, is itreally even going to be noticed
or acknowledged?
So what's?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
interesting is it depends on what content I'm
watching that there was a timewhen I was hot and heavy in my
content that I stopped leavingcomments on other creators in my
niches content, not because Ididn't want to, but because it
became a distraction in thecomment section because viewers
knew who I was in that niche.
(29:30):
So then they would comment tome and stuff Not always nice,
sometimes nice, but sometimesnot and I'm like that's just a
distraction.
Now I feel like I'm beingdistracting and I don't want
that for that creator.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Like I was leaving a quote like this was great.
Whatever See, it was a genericcomment.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
No, no, I mean I was being specific, I'm being
generic now.
Back then I was being authentic, I was being gen-yuen, right,
but so I stopped.
Outside of my niche I wouldleave comments pretty freely,
but within my niche I wasn't.
And it was something that wasreally interesting because I had
never, in all the things thatwere in the non-existent YouTube
handbook of like things toexpect as a YouTuber, that was
(30:07):
not one of them.
It was not in there To like.
You know, people are, forbetter or worse, going to
recognize you in your niche andif you, no matter what you do,
someone's going to be mean toyou.
So, for example, in these we'retalking about retention graphs
a little bit here.
We're almost done that.
We're talking about otherthings now, but you might see
drop-offs in certain things.
You say something particularlyhot take-ish, which I actually
(30:30):
like people taking a definitive.
I feel like in content creation, if you want good performing
stuff, you take a hard line onsomething, you pick a lane.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I think that's true.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
And you will find that you'll get more success
there.
But when you do that, just knowpeople out there are coming for
your neck.
So when you say something, yourattention graph might go
everything's great, everything'sgreat.
Candy corn's good, oh, it'sdown.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Everyone left.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
And you know we take those because as soon as we say
cat breaks are great, it goesright back up.
And then we brought everyoneback.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
My favorite now are the YouTube disclaimers
everyone's making before theysay an opinion or after it.
It's like, oh, just say whatyou want to say.
Everyone's like oh, my gosh,that's like me being like well,
I love candy corn, but it's okayif you don't like candy corn
and if you kind of like it ohyeah, that's also okay, but if
you've never, had it.
(31:25):
I don't want you to feel badbecause you've never had it, so
I didn't want to offend you ifyou don't have the opportunity
to try it because you liveoverseas, so I think candy
corn's good though yeah, it'stoo much.
It's too much, just say you likeit and everyone else okay, like
I get that there are thingsthat can absolutely offend
someone, but I think a lot ofthe times just kind of it's okay
to just be like candy corn isthe best right and if you hate
(31:47):
it, you hate it, but like at theend of the day, it's still just
candy.
Yeah, it's fine but, like I, Ijust think that we have such a
culture now where like that isbecoming so popular.
I see it all the time incontent where people are just
kind of hedging their bets oh mygosh, so much really oh my gosh
really just like I would say.
I feel like I just saw onerecently, like in a fashion
(32:09):
video, where it was like a trendand it was like, well, I don't
like the trend, but it's okay ifyou do, and I can see why you
would like it, because it couldlook good and blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
But and then they just did thiswhole run around to being like
okay, um moving on, I've youknow what I actually think.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
I know why they're doing this because in certain
situations I have donesimilar-ish things in older
content and I almost guaranteeyou this is why they're doing it
, because they say the thingyeah and then in their mind
they're going this is thecomment someone's going to leave
, so they answer that commentyeah and then this is the
comment that person can leave.
let me answer that comment.
Oh, and this is the comment,and let me answer that comment.
So they're trying to answer thecomments before they're left.
Yeah, by saying well, it's okayif you don't, but if you do,
(32:54):
but if you don't, but if you do,but if you don't.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
And then nobody cares and nobody comments, and nobody
comments.
It's almost worse, which isalmost worse.
I think it's a thousand timesworse and I, you know I get not
wanting to hurt someone'sfeelings, but if you do, it's
totally fine.
Just be a human and be like hey, sorry, I didn't mean.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
I didn't mean something by it.
If your feelings are hurt aboutliking candy corn, then you
probably need to be watchingsomething else, that's what I'm
saying.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I'm not apologizing for it.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Why?
That's where we were talkingabout dips, the retention graph,
but let's talk about the introsretention graph okay, that's
great, because are important.
I feel like this is a real hyperfixation for so many creators,
where it's like even people whowould come into coaching and be
like I just gotta work on myretention, I gotta work on my
first 30 seconds, I gotta workon my hook.
I work on my intro because itfeels like there's so much
(33:44):
pressure on that that like therest of the video like solely
revolves around that moment andwhat that percent looks like and
what that drop off looks like.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
So let's talk about a couple of things that are real
and then you can you can uh, asa viewer can consider these
things into what you think isimportant.
Here's a real thing If peopleare watching on um desktop and I
do this if you mouse over, yourvideo starts playing and a
subtitle shows over top of it.
So I believe this comes fromback in the day when you used to
(34:15):
hover over and people wouldhard code in the subtitles.
But now YouTube kind of does itfor you.
So what people are doing andwhat I'm doing same thing is
I've seen the title andthumbnail.
I'm now hovering over it.
I'm not even fully committed.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Whoa whoa, whoa, whoa , you have a hover step.
I hover and I wait to see whatit said.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Video like what's going on, bro.
I've seen so many, so many fromback in the day before I was a
creator and I was just a viewer.
I hated seeing a thumbnailwhere I didn't see anything that
was in the thumbnail in thevideo that that upset me okay,
go back to this hover, thoughI'm, I'm I hover all the time
about this, so when I'm ondesktop, what are?
Speaker 2 (34:48):
you looking for the hover?
Speaker 1 (34:49):
I'm just trying to see what's going on.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
So, like if I see a video that's like I don't know
12 ways to be the best personyou can be, I'm like all right,
let me put my mouse over top ofit.
Let me see what he says and shesays in the very beginning of
the video and what kind ofvisuals are going on.
Interesting.
I only hover for like maybe 10,15 seconds because I can read
what they're saying because,it's all there.
Youtube's putting the subtitlesup, and if it's good enough
(35:15):
then I'll click.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Do you rewind?
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Sometimes, but I mean for the most part when you
click it it's already to whereyou were watching.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
No, that's what I'm saying, like, if I hover and
then I click, I go back.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
I sometimes do yeah, yeah.
So I think that I'm not theonly one doing this.
The reason I think that isbecause the subtitling wasn't
always there, but now, it is soI believe, and Tom Bupre from
YouTube has said that, like thishover thing is a new kind of.
It's not a click through rate.
There's not.
They don't even have a metricthat shows to us which they
should get around to doing, andmaybe they will.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, who's who's hovering, hovering Um, but
that's important.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
But that's important because if I see the title I'm
like I'm almost committed, but Ineed to see what's going on.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
That would be way better than our retention graphs
, to be honest.
It would be Because it's justlike it's that final step where
it's like you had youropportunities.
This was the final straw andthey still didn't click.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Wow, you just broke my brain.
That's a great idea.
That's a great idea.
They hovered and didn't click.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
The hover did not click.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
The hover did not click.
Yeah, so we're talking titlethumbnail and that opening hug.
They were all not strong enough.
I'm going to clip this part outand I'm going to send it to
Rene Ritchie to have him watchthis part.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Okay, Rene so.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
I think that's.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Get at me.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Hit me up while I have his number, but I think
that would be a reallyinteresting thing because it
would tell us if our hooks areworking, so you get to see the
click.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
It'll tell us if our hooks are hooking, if it's
complimenting, if you'reprofessional hooking no.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah, I think less than I think, because you can
kind of see that in theretention graph Someone actually
clicks through right.
Yeah, this is a differentperson, this is a person that's
almost committed.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
But they're just trying to decide whether or it's
did you can?
Yeah, it is.
It is like it's your hook.
Really good to convince, butdid it push them over the edge?
Because the person that'sclicked, was convinced by your
thumbnail title.
For me, that's a differentperson than someone who's
hovering A hover hasn't decided,a clicker has decided whether
or not they, whether they clickoff or not, is a different story
(37:14):
.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
They were like OK, they were committed.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
I want to know the people that are on the fence.
Did I convince them or not?
That would be a cool metric.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
You're welcome, renee .
Yeah, all right, it's aninteresting one.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
So now we just see when people click in and they
click off, which you're going tosee, no matter what.
I've yet to see a retentiongraph with zero dip.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Oh, yeah, yeah, Impossible.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Like we're not looking for an actual straight
line like that.
I I have never seen that.
I would love if there is someyoutube like world breaking
retention graph where it's justlike straight across it was the
best video ever.
Like no one's ever clickednobody's ever clicked off,
nobody's accidentally clickedout, nothing nothing, yeah,
impossible, impossible, allright.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
So, um, that was a lot.
Let's, uh, let's get into ourlittle fun little bit here.
Uh, I believe the last time wetried some candy that I liked.
What do you have, uh, for metoday?
Yeah, let's see because, uh,we're, because we are an
unofficial candy, podcast.
We hope that you enjoy.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I actually have a candy.
What time are we at, actually?
Speaker 1 (38:30):
We're good, yeah, we're good.
We're what we're at 39.
Yeah, we're good, we are good.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
And retention graph.
I thought was going to be themost difficult.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
No, no, no, I told you See you worry about things,
I going to be the most difficult?
No, no, I don't know.
I told you, see, you worryabout things.
I'm like, I'm not worried atall, like we just talk.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
I've never had these but these are what is that?
Warhead taffies.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Okay, I'm aware of warheads, tropical fusion.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Yeah, I saw regular warheads.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
But you know I sister not only in all these podcasts
but like outside of it.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
She sounds fascinating.
My sister's awesome sounds.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
That's why, yeah, okay, do you want are they
different?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
I guess I want paradise punch that sounds like
me, or citrus surf those bothsound great.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Give me one or the other I feel like these are
gonna be.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
I'll give you blue because obviously blue is always
.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
No wait, I love blue.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
You said you like green, don't you?
Speaker 1 (39:23):
I like blue and green .
Blue and green are my favoritecolors.
Oh well, you can get.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
I have more than in the bag All right.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
So what was the remind?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
me, I'll try the same one as you.
What was the thing of WarheadsParadise acid?
They're literally.
That sounds terrible.
It doesn't sound so much worse,really bad okay, but these are
taffy.
So I was like it's so funny too.
I almost got the warheads, butI was like, oh, everybody's had
(39:49):
a warhead.
Little do I know these lookgood, though, actually I'll
bring warheads for the next one,and I was also like these might
be a little less sour than likea regular warhead very
plasticky, but your flavor isgood, but it's like plastic oh,
it's very plasticky and verypossible.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Can you look up the percentage of plastic in this?
Speaker 2 (40:12):
well, I can almost promise there's definitely red
40 anyway, oh yeah, we go forthe healthy stuff Around here.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
What does it say?
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Red 40.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Is that one of the things that's going to be banned
At the end of the year?
Speaker 2 (40:28):
I think it is.
Why is this so hard to eat?
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Oh it's very hard to eat.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
It's like Kind of making me drool A little bit, it
doesn't go away Right.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Well, if you like the podcast, of course you can
always Leave us.
All right.
Well, if you like the podcast,of course you can always leave
us.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Wow, I can't do the outro, oh my gosh, did you put
the whole thing?
Did you just commit to thewhole thing?
Speaker 1 (40:45):
I didn't know.
You weren't supposed to, areyou not?
Speaker 2 (40:48):
supposed to?
I don't know, I've never hadthem before, but I just took a
bite.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
This is very difficult.
All right, if you're new here,I don't know that you're here
anymore.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Today I'm on our channel.
Now I'm eating taffy.
We understand if you don't comeback.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
I can totally understand if you never come
back.
We'll see you next time, jen,tell them goodbye.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Alright, we'll see you in the next episode, but
don't forget to leave us a fivestar review only.
And actually I think the nextepisode we're going to kind of
be going over some things aboutourselves as creators.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Exposed.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Exposed.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
See you in that one.
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