April 28, 2025 • 50 mins
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Have you ever wondered why that "random" video YouTube recommended turned out to be exactly what you wanted to watch? The answer lies in a fundamental misunderstanding most creators have about how the platform actually works.
The YouTube algorithm doesn't push your videos out to viewers—viewers pull videos that interest them based on their watch history and behavior patterns. This single insight completely transforms how smart creators should approach content strategy in 2024. As we discuss in this episode, YouTube has evolved dramatically since its early days when metadata, keywords, and tags were critical ranking factors. Today, the platform operates on a sophisticated system that predicts with uncanny accuracy what content will resonate with specific viewers.
Watch history is the most powerful factor in YouTube's recommendation system. The platform builds detailed profiles of viewer interests by analyzing not just what you watch, but how long you watch it and what you do next. This explains those seemingly random but perfectly matched recommendations that appear on your homepage. We break down real examples of how this "digital word of mouth" connects viewers to content they never searched for but end up loving.
For creators looking to grow, understanding these mechanisms is crucial. Rather than obsessing over tags (which YouTube has quietly deprioritized for years), focus on creating content that naturally follows videos your potential audience already watches. We explain practical strategies for joining ongoing conversations rather than trying to start new ones, and how to transition from purely search-based content to browse-worthy videos that capture viewer interest through emotional hooks and curiosity.
Whether you're just starting out or looking to break through a growth plateau, this episode provides actionable insights into how YouTube's recommendation system actually works—and how to make it work for you. Download vidIQ for free to analyze search trends and content opportunities in your niche, then apply these principles to create videos that viewers will naturally pull into their feeds.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
welcome to tube talk, the show dedicated to helping
you become a better videocreator so you can get more
views, subscribers and buildyour audience, brought to you by
vid iq.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
download for free at vid iqcom hey, welcome back to
the only podcast that'ssometimes international and
sometimes is local, and that'sgoing to be happening a lot over
the next couple of weeks.
Today I'm your host, travis,along with my special co-host
today, rob wilson, from the mainchannel.
How you doing, rob?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
hey travis.
Yes, you have goneinternational today and I know
this isn't related to today'sconversation, but we are
recording on a very specialbirthday for you.
Yes, 20 years since me at thezoo debuted on youtube and who
knew that would go into suchfolklore?
(00:50):
After 350 million views, 10million comments, 70 million
likes, you can tell I've beendoing the maths on this today
and who knows how many dislikes.
All thanks to will smith.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
What a lore and a history youtube has created for
us all it's funny because um 20years, I mean it's a long time
for anything.
I remember the last time that Iheard something that I saw that
said 20 years and made me feelold.
I mean, youtube is redoing itfor me.
Thanks for the flashback.
But I remember being in aTarget looking, walking past the
(01:25):
toy section and I looked on oneof the aisle caps and they had
super soakers.
Do you know what super soakersare?
Yeah, we have them over here.
By the way, this was years agoand they had the 20th
anniversary edition.
I was done.
I was so upset.
I was so upset.
I'm like wait a minute, 20years and you say it on YouTube
(01:46):
20 years, like what's going on?
Incredible stuff, and theplatform today is completely
different than it was back then,which is what we're going to
talk about today as far as howto get the YouTube algorithm
working for you today.
But if you're new here, welcome.
My name is Travis and we dothis podcast every week where we
talk a lot about how to growyour YouTube channel and
sometimes about candy and otherthings, mostly about candy.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Let's be honest.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Mostly about candy and sometimes about YouTuber-y
things.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yeah, I come here not to talk about YouTube, just so
everybody knows.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
That's great.
We can talk about video gamesand stuff too.
But let's real quick, talkabout technical difficulties,
which I've been having the lastcouple of weeks, and we'll get
right into the YouTube thingbecause it is mildly related.
So technology can be great, butI've had some technological
issues over the last couple ofweeks, which has included a
couple of last couple episodes.
So for a while there, for acouple of episodes, I've had to
(02:35):
record the audio here on myRodecaster Pro, which I love.
But I've had to do it.
I've had to do it locallybecause the audio, when I was
streaming here on our platformthat we use uh, was getting, was
scratching and having theseweird sound effects.
It was really strange.
I come to find out it was afirmware update that I had done
on my my roadcaster duo.
(02:57):
Um, that was messed up and theyended up having an update that
then fixed it.
And then so after I get throughthat, I'm like okay, finally I
fixed the issue, I don't have toworry about it anymore.
I get a new, I upgrade mycomputer, get a new video card
and videos just start killingand dropping, and this happened
in the last episode.
Literally at the end of thelast episode, my screen goes
(03:18):
black because my entire browsercrashed.
Turns out another driver driverissue technology.
There to help you and there tohurt you all at the same time.
You got to hate it.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
So is the lesson here Never upgrade any of your tech.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
In a weird way.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
It might be.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well now the scary part is I updated all my
networking stuff.
So I'm at a new router, a newmodem right now on new internet
connection, so everything'sfaster.
But if something goes wrongit's because I've changed
something else.
I need to stop doing that Ineed to.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
I look forward to the buffering icon imminently
appearing as your face just butI know I hope not I hope not,
because the thing is, this thingis super fast.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I downloaded 150 gig game in nine minutes yesterday.
Incredible, incredible game, isit?
Uh?
Nba 2k 25.
I wanted to play somebasketball.
I haven't done that in a while.
Okay, uh, all right, let'squick, let's get into the things
.
People here for the like wait aminute.
You guys saw my video.
Give them what they want.
Let me ask you a question,because I don't think I know the
(04:21):
answer to this when did you youfirst start on YouTube?
What was your first year thatyou were doing YouTube or
anything?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
So my first video was in 2008.
I started taking it seriouslyin 2012 and went full-time in
2017.
So like almost a decade'sjourney to get to a point where
you might call me a professionalquote-unquote YouTuber.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I still find it uncomfortable calling myself
that.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout that, because the way
things worked on YouTube backthen much different than they
are now.
Right, and we're going toexplain how that works
algorithmically in a minute, butonce upon a time, things like
tags and keywords and stuff werereally super high on the list
(05:09):
of things you wanted to do.
When you uploaded back intolike 2012 and stuff, would you
say that is that.
Is that fair?
Speaker 3 (05:14):
well, I would say the reason I do what I'm doing now
travis is because of tags,because I thought this is back
in 2015, but tags were werestill critical to the metadata
of content.
So I made a video about vidIQ'stools that allowed you to copy
tags from other videos and putthem on yours, and that's what
(05:36):
ended up establishing theconnection with Rob Sandy and
the rest is YouTube slash vidIQhistory at that point.
But yeah, I was very much theSEO fiend, I'd say, until about
2018, 19, even though YouTube,probably a year or two before
that, were already telling usthat metadata wasn't as
(05:57):
important.
I guess the mystery for me isalways when did it stop being
that important?
Are we talking like 2012, 2013?
Right, sooner earlier, andTodd's kind of always hinted at
this, certainly since he's beenat YouTube, which is, I think,
about a decade now.
(06:17):
But it's taken many of us,people who were inside the
industry, to wean ourselves offthis, and we're having a hell of
a hard time trying to educatenot only creators who've been at
this for years themselves, butnew creators who, for some
reason, still come into theyoutube landscape thinking that
(06:39):
metadata is far more importantthan the emotion or the intrigue
of a title and a thumbnail.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, and so part of that is YouTube educators' fault
.
Right For many years that waskind of the thing.
I will hold up my hands, but Imean, it was true, but it was
true at one time and whilecertain aspects of it are still
true today, very, very little ofit, of what was said even four
or five years ago is true today,especially when it comes to the
algorithm.
(07:06):
Now a couple of things to makenote of.
Keywords and tags are not thesame thing.
They're kind of a Venn diagramof can they be similar things?
Can they be the same thing incertain situations?
Sure, a keyword can be a tag.
However, when you're talkingabout keywords, you're talking
about words that are in titles,descriptions and even topics
that lead to a topic, basically.
(07:28):
So, in other words, a keywordcould be what's a good keyword,
like cake.
Why don't we just talk aboutcake when I'm here?
It could be cake.
That could be a keyword.
You can put that in the tagsection of a YouTube video and
if you don't have any kind ofviewership like if no
subscribers or something andYouTube starts trying to figure
(07:50):
out what this video is about, itmight use that information for
that, and I think Todd wouldpray once in a long time said we
kind of just use it formisspellings at this point,
right, like hardly even what thevideo is about.
It's more title and description.
But the keywords are importantto understand what the interest
is in a topic.
So we have that tool with vidIQand it's good to see how many
people are searching for that orhow many videos have those
keywords.
So that's different.
(08:11):
A lot of people get thoseconfused.
They think keywords and tagsare the same thing.
They're not.
They can have similarsituations.
They're not the same thing.
So we're not talking aboutkeywords.
Keywords are very important,always important.
You need to know what's working, what's not.
Tags that little section thatyou have to click down on now
and add things in.
Which is interesting, robbecause I think you pointed this
out when they first did that isthat it's not easy to find
(08:33):
anymore.
It's not above the fold, asthey say.
You actually have to clicksomething to show it.
Show them all.
Yeah, what do you think thatmeans from?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
the side of YouTube by them putting it underneath of
something that you have toclick.
So they're clearly trying tode-emphasize the importance of
tags and have been for a while.
My main criticism of youtube onthat front is that they had a
golden opportunity three, fouryears ago to completely remove
the concept of tags from thelexicon of YouTube when they
(09:07):
changed the creator studio fromthe classic version to the new
version, and I think peoplewould have complained about it
then, obviously, but becausethere was so much change going
on at that point, I think theymay have been able to get away
with it in that sense, you know,like I don't mean get away, but
like be able to.
It's kind of like burying badnews under a lot of changes.
(09:32):
Yeah, the same thing.
It's not bad news.
I think it's trying toeliminate tags or something's
important.
And then another thing is whythey left it at 500 characters
when they talk about it onlybeing used for misspellings.
Can you fill up a box ofmisspellings with 500 characters
?
I think that's impossible.
So there's a box there.
(09:54):
I'm gonna fill it if it's there, if I think there's a marginal
gain of one or two percent.
I mean, as you say now withtools from vidIQ and elsewhere,
it is so easy to just copy andpaste and drop in those words as
an afterthought After 99% ofthe other upload.
Things have been done for yourchannel, really.
(10:15):
And yeah, just to piggyback onwhat you were saying about the
difference in keywords and tags,I always see keywords as like
your dictionary or yourthesaurus for your topic.
This is you understandinglanguage of your audience so
that you communicate with themwith the same, with the same
(10:37):
language, with the same.
What's the right word?
I'm struggling to find a way todescribe this.
It's like just trying todiscuss talking to your audience
at an intellectual level whereyou're sharing these things, um,
words that we all understand.
You know, when we talk aboutyoutube, it's like average view
duration, thumbnails, what else?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
like your vocabulary pattern interrupts hooks.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Like you know, hook is such a generic term in a
dictionary, but when we use itin youtube language as a very
specific meaning, and that'swhat we mean when we talk about
a keyword now, just includinghook as a tag would be pretty
useless because it doesn't havethat same meaning.
So that's what we talk about akeyword.
Now just including hook as atag would be pretty useless
because it doesn't have thatsame meaning.
So that's what we mean about inin the context of talking about
youtube.
(11:23):
We all know what hook means,but just sticking it as a tag in
a video, it loses that context.
Yeah, I think that's.
I think that's probably thebest way to try and define the
difference in keywords and tagsand how one is important and one
isn't necessarily as importantas it may be.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Once, yeah, and the other thing is, think about
when's the last time you clickedon a video because of its tags.
You probably have never donethat, because I don't even know
that they give you the option todo that.
Like where would you see tagsother than our tool, right
without actual you?
Speaker 3 (11:52):
wouldn't see them.
It's impossible to quantifybecause the if you search
specifically for a tag onYouTube I think I did this
experiment was it five years agowhen I inserted a unique
identifier.
I think it was like quidditch54321, like a tag that nobody
else would have ever used.
If you put it in a title, ifyou put it in a description,
(12:15):
then it will show up in search,but if you put it in a tags area
, it doesn't influence whetherit shows up in search, and we're
talking about something that Iexperimented with half a decade
ago, so that's going to evolveeven further at this point.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Yeah, and I actually even did a video about how
YouTube search really works acouple of months ago, and what I
thought was really interestingabout it was that even while the
title and thumbnail or sorry,the title and description can
definitely help rank in search,really what it comes down to is
what people are getting oncethey type those words into
search and then what they clickon next, like it's irrelevant.
Like, technically you couldhave something that doesn't have
.
What I shouldn't saytechnically, because it happens
all the time where you searchfor something and those words
(12:55):
aren't even anywhere near anydescription or text or anything,
but it's the subject youactually want.
So, for example, I think I evensaid in the video something
about you can type in chocolatecake into search and with no
context, you could just bewanting to watch a video of
chocolate cakes, but everythingthat comes up is how to make one
.
Well, why is that?
Because most people who aretyping in chocolate cake want to
(13:18):
know how to make one.
Well, why is that?
Because most people who aretyping in chocolate cake want to
know how to make it.
They don't necessarily want toeat or watch someone eat it,
although there are people whowant to watch that, but that's
not what you would type in forsearch.
If you try it yourself, anyonewho's listening.
Go to YouTube.
Type in chocolate cake, noother context, watch it, and
everything that comes up in thebeginning is a how-to how to
think an interesting experimentthere might be.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Travis is let's say you start an incognito tab or
you create a dummy account andyou watch nothing but mukbangs
and ASMR eating videos and thentry, and then on another account
you just only watch videosabout how to make desserts.
Yeah, and then I wonder if howdifferent the search would be
like if you're putting chocolatecake, you would assume that for
(13:57):
the mukbang ASMR fan it wouldbe all of that related content,
but for the other channel withthe interest in the tutorials,
then it would be all the how-tostuff.
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I actually do want to try that because that could be
like a part two of how theYouTube search works.
That's a really cool idea.
So for anyone who doesn't know,one of the things about when
you're trying to target thingsin YouTube algorithm to figure
out what the algo is pushing oractually we're going to talk
about in a minute pulling is tohave a quote dummy account, an
account that doesn't have yourwatch history or anything
(14:30):
because we're going to talkabout in a minute why watch
history is so important and thenjust watch videos specifically
on that account.
So you can actually sign up tomultiple accounts under your
email address and only watchcertain content on that account.
So you can see what type ofcontent YouTube is pushing, and
that's actually a great place toget ideations for videos in
your niche.
So if you were to open a startup another viewer account under
(14:52):
your email address or whatever,and only watch competitors in
your in your niche, you willstart to find channels that
you've never heard of before inyour niche that are doing really
great things and can give yousome really great ideas for your
own videos One of the littlesecret things that sometimes we
tell people to try when they'retrying to find out ideas.
So what Rob is saying here andit's really interesting is based
(15:13):
off that, because YouTubeunderstands what you're wanting
to watch next, will search, thenchange and that's you know.
To be honest, I don't know.
I don't think it will, but Iwould love to find out.
I would love to find outbecause it would not surprise me
if it did, because it wouldmake total sense Interesting.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
I just want to take you back to a little experiment
I did.
I was doing a session recentlyfor TV executives who are
getting into YouTube and Iwanted to try and show how
quickly YouTube gets an idea ofa viewer's interest.
So if you open up YouTube andyou're not logged in, you don't
(15:52):
actually see a homepage anymore,you just see a box that says
try searching to get started.
And it literally says startwatching videos to help build a
feed of videos that you'll love,right, yep, yep.
So I did a search for greatbritish bake-off.
I'm sure there's an americanversion of this.
It's like a very popular showand I watched one of those
videos.
And then I looked at thesuggested column and there was
(16:12):
another video.
That was about a show calledcome dine with me.
This is a show in the uk whereeach night a contestant hosts
the other contestants and doeslike a meal and entertainment
and whatever.
So I watched just those twovideos and then when I went back
to the home page, itrecommended me obviously more
(16:33):
food videos.
Right, what, what?
what it also realized was that Iwas probably a fan of reality
television yeah and becausethose two shows are kind of like
unscripted, are the unscriptedreality shows and so, yeah, it
was doing that as well.
And then american food versusuk food, and also as well, it
(16:53):
must have assumed that I was acertain type of person who was
interested in, um, what was itnow like cleaning, cleaning your
house?
Or um, like huge clear outvlogs and stuff like that.
And that was all from justwatching two videos yeah and so
yeah, and that must be from allof the trillions of data points
(17:15):
that they've been able to graspfrom billions of videos that are
on the platform.
Well, that's an interestingside question.
How many videos do you thinkthere are on YouTube at this
point, travis?
Do you reckon it's still in thebillions, or could we be at
trillions?
Speaker 2 (17:27):
We're at a number that I don't think we have words
for, because a couple of yearsago it used to be 500 hours
every every minute, but that wasbefore shorts, yeah, so if you
take shorts as videos as well,there is a word for it.
It's more than Google, becausea Google is one with a thousand
zeros behind it.
It's more than a Google anumber of videos, for sure, I
(17:49):
don't know.
I mean, just within therecording of this podcast,
there's probably thousands ofvideos being recorded every
minute that we're talking, whichis insane to think about.
But let's talk a little bitabout what you just said there.
So this section right herewe're going to talk about right
here.
I'm going to timestamp thisright here, right here.
Just, I want you to listen tome right here.
This is how the YouTubealgorithm works and it's
important to know how it works.
So you know how to get it towork for you, because,
conceptually, if you don'tunderstand how something works,
(18:12):
it's hard to get it to work foryou.
So what does the YouTubealgorithm do and why do we know
this?
We know this for a couple ofreasons.
Number one we do YouTube.
We know this.
We've been doing YouTube for along time.
We know this, but Todd Bouprefrom YouTube, who works on the
algorithm, actually came on avidIQ something we used to call
vidIQ Max and is on a one of, Ithink, our second most popular
video on our YouTube channel andtalked about how the YouTube
(18:35):
algorithm works.
And it's important to understandthat when you put a video up on
YouTube, it isn't so much thatit's being pushed out which is,
I think, what most creatorsthink because we think from our
side of it pushed out to viewers, it's actually being pulled in
by the viewers that are onlineat that time.
Now, once you conceptuallyunderstand that, okay, it's not
from our side, it does look likeit's being pushed out because
(18:56):
you see impressions, right, rob?
So it's easy to think, oh, myvideo's being pushed out, when
in actuality, it's the peoplethat are online that might be
interested in that video thatare being pushed too.
Is that an important difference?
Do you think, if you reallybreak it down, are we slicing
the onion too thick?
Speaker 3 (19:10):
I think it is in terms of the consistency of your
content.
I think just from an individualvideo that you make, you could
just assume that, yeah,youtube's going to push it out
to people and then, oh, thatvideo did well, I'll just make
another video, because YouTubethinks I'm a good creator and I
make good videos.
Therefore, this next video,irrespective of what it's about
(19:33):
and who it's aimed at, youtubewill again just push it out.
But that's not necessarily howit works and it's you have to
think of it from a viewer'spoint of viewing, the sense that
if I watch friends and I reallyenjoy it, but then at the same
time, the following week, whenI'm expecting another episode of
friends instead, the tv networkdecides to show a football
(19:54):
match or a musical, like, ohwell, I was expecting this at
this time on this network and Ididn't get that.
So I guess, from a YouTubeperspective, all you're doing
there is kind of removing thetime, because videos can go out
at any point on YouTube.
But I'm coming to YouTubeexpecting this type of content
(20:17):
from these creators and if thosecreators don't supply that to
quote, unquote the network thatis youtube then it won't
necessarily decide to give giveme that impression for that
viewer.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, and this all comes down to watch history.
So when you're on YouTube,there's actually a little thing
on the left-hand side.
You can click the littlehamburger and you'll see
something that says history.
It shows all the videos you'vewatched on YouTube and how long
you've watched them.
That's why you can stop a videohalfway, come back and then
it'll replay it from where youstarted.
It's very important.
It's really great from a viewerperspective, but it also gives
YouTube a lot of information,especially especially if you
(20:53):
come back to the same video andcomplete the video.
It's actually a good signal.
So how does this all work?
Watch history is the number oneway that YouTube figures out
what it it's going to predictthat you will want to watch next
, and it knows this better thanyou do.
You might think, oh, I knowexactly what I want to watch
next, but I will tell you almosta hundred percent of the time,
based on if you you know Robjust kind of described earlier.
If you go to your homepage,you're going to see videos from
(21:16):
channels you're subscribed toright Channels you're not
subscribed to but have watchedbefore and maybe are on topics
that you like and then you'regoing to see these random videos
.
They seem random that are aboutnothing you've ever looked at
by video creators you've neverheard of, on subjects you would
probably never even look at.
But I practically guarantee ifyou click one of those you're
going to love it, becauseYouTube already knows you're
(21:36):
going to love it, based on watchhistory and predictive
algorithms, knowing that peoplewho've watched the same things
that you've watched liked thisvideo as well.
So, for example, let's just takethe example of Rob and I.
Let's say Rob and I both let'ssay we both watch wrestling
videos on YouTube, which is atrue statement.
We both do watch that, right, Ialso watch video game, uh
(21:59):
videos, and and rob does as well.
But let's say I watch a wholeother type of um video like, uh,
murder mysteries and stuff.
Maybe rob doesn't like that,but maybe he watches I don't
know what's something elseyou've watched.
It's like, oh, you watch thosevideos about like the, the, the
uk, uh, streets and stuff, right, yeah the uh, the
infrastructure of the highwaysin the UK.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Right right Auto shenanigans.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Great channel.
I highly recommend it.
I definitely have never seen it.
Probably wouldn't watch it,right.
So we have these things that wedo watch that are similar, and
then we have these two thingsthat are not similar.
So what YouTube does is itlooks and says, okay, well, they
both watch these very similarthings, so we know they're kind
of similar watchers.
But these two outlying thingslet's see if anyone else who
watches those two things thewrestling and video games watch
(22:41):
one of those other two, and ifone of those people likes to
watch that.
Now you've got this thing ofokay, now we can test.
Now, obviously it's not thissmall.
It happens probably millions oftimes per second.
Probably at this point but it'sjust to give you an
understanding Say, okay, well,people who like wrestling and
video games might like this,this driving, or this, uh, this
street channel, because Rob andtwo other people who also like
(23:04):
wrestling and video games alsohave watched that.
So that's where you'll see thatrandom video pop up on the home
screen for people that maybeonly watch video games about, uh
, videos about video games andwrestling.
All of a sudden you get thisstreet video.
Like what the heck is this?
They click and watch it andthey like it.
Now there's another data point,and you can just grow upon that
knowledge to then predict thetype of things that you will
(23:25):
like, based on hundreds ofthousands or millions of data
points that you couldn'tpossibly ever figure out for
yourself.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Travis, you mentioned wrestling and I have a perfect
example I want to show you.
I'm going to risk this.
I'm going to try and share myscreen so people watching can
enjoy this.
You can see my home screen andin the top left-hand corner,
which is predominantly, I'd say,the first video people want to
(23:52):
pick up.
That's like the prime numberone real estate on the YouTube
homepage, travis.
Can you just read out the titleof the video for me please?
Speaker 2 (23:59):
raw versus nitro we living the war, episode 243.
I'm very familiar withwrestling bios, uh, youtube
channel, so I I watch thisparticular series religiously.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Every thursday night, this creator publishes a video
about the history of a mondaynight wrestling wars.
Okay, you don't need to knowthe details.
It's fascinating to me.
Now here's the crazy thing.
Right, If I click on thechannel right, and we look at
the channel itself, what can yousee?
Or what am I hovering overright now?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
So I'm glad you brought this up, because I was
literally going to talk aboutthis.
What you're seeing.
If you're watching the YouTubechannel, you can see this.
He's actually not subscribed tothis channel, yet the number
one video on his homepage wasfrom Wrestling Bios.
One of the things I did want totalk about we'll get there in a
minute, but let's talk a littlebit about this right now is are
subscribes that important?
And in the case of this, I callthis phenomenon subscribe but
(24:51):
not subscribed, because you aregetting all of his videos,
You're just not subscribed.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Because you are getting all of his videos,
absolutely, you're just notsubscribed.
Now, the other bonkers thing isTravis.
If I scroll down, I don'treally watch any of Wrestling
Bio's other videos.
Yeah, like Bob Holly HatesEveryone, wcw 1996.
I'm just following the series,right, and YouTube will
recommend those videos, butmaybe like on the second row
Right or like further down thehomepage.
But Reliving the, the war, theseries the series it knows I'm
(25:20):
locked in it knows to that right.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
It knows specifically the videos I was.
This exact thing has happenedto me the exact video series
from that creator.
I'll I'll do you one better.
I'll do you one better.
This when I saw this phenomenonhappen, I was so shocked at how
good the algorithm was in realtime that I already kind of
thought I knew what was going on.
Then, when I saw this, I waslike oh my God, I can't believe
(25:42):
this.
So many a year ago I think itwas before I was even with vidIQ
I'm not sure, I think it wasKSI or something had a boxing
match.
One of the one of theinfluencers had a boxing match
and, you know, people weretrying to stream it on YouTube,
but they were getting taken downlike quickly, right, like very
(26:03):
quickly, cause you weren'tsupposed to stream it on YouTube
.
I was watching on YouTube and Isaw these channels pop up and
these videos pop up and thengetting taken down within like
15 seconds Well, some of themfaster than others and then I
would see these videos berecommended to me on my homepage
.
That had nothing to do withanything.
They were like SpongeBobSquarePants, episode six, and
I'm like that's weird.
So I clicked on it and it wasthe live stream from the fight.
(26:23):
So the creators were trying tocompletely fool the system by
not putting anything in thethumbnail or title about it.
But YouTube's recommendationengine still knew, despite the
fact that the title andthumbnail had nothing to do with
it, that that live stream waswhat I had been trying to watch
before.
I have never seen anything likethat since, or.
But it just goes to show thatit knows what's going on in the
(26:45):
video and it knew.
Just, I didn't watch anyspongebob content, it wasn't
anything about that.
But I even knew and, looking atthe thumbnail and title and
just some of the ways they werewording things, that that's what
it was, and so did thealgorithm.
It was the most mind-blowingmoment about the algorithm,
crazy.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
So the automated system is checking.
I guess the titles andthumbnails was being
circumvented, yes, but thealgorithm itself wasn't doing a
check on whether the contentshould be on YouTube Right, in
other words, like whether it wascopyright material or not.
(27:20):
It was only interested infinding the right viewer, yes,
or the view was pulling ittowards.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Absolutely, absolutely.
It's incredible, and this goesto other things.
So some people go well, myself,a shadow band or whatever, and
while you can have, like, viewssuppressed based on different
things depending on what it isyou're doing nine times I think
that's not the case.
We've talked about this with um, uh, with moist critical, who
you know has a bunch of his, hisuh videos that are, um, that
(27:48):
are not suppressed, but whatwould be the right word here
restricted, restricted mode,yeah, yeah, um, you can stop
sharing here.
So I think what's important toknow is, even though they were
all in quote, restricted mode,he's still getting millions of
views every video, becauseYouTube's the algorithm itself,
weirdly, um, we'll still try itsbest to find the viewer for
(28:09):
that content.
So how do you use that to youradvantage?
Knowing that watching people'swatch history is really
important and people's intentionto watch things is very
important, how do you do that?
Well, hey, you got to know whatpeople are wanting to watch,
right, and if you can find apassion within that we talk a
lot about passion here on thispodcast and if you know the
passion for what you want totalk about now, you got to look
at like, okay, what is gettingviews.
(28:30):
What is getting views?
What are people watching?
If someone watches this video,for example, the Monday Night
Wars you just brought up, if youand I started a wrestling
podcast and on day one we haveno videos, we're like, well,
look, this guy is getting a lotof views every Thursday.
He does this.
A good follow-up would besomething about that same exact
(28:50):
subject slash topic that looksfamiliar enough to the person
watching that content that theywould be interested in watching
ours.
So it might be the reaction tothat, or a secondary opinion
about what was said in thatparticular video piece,
something that funnels from theinterest that exists to what
would that person want to watchnext?
So like it, for example, inthis thing um, you like to watch
(29:11):
the money that works, which Ilove too.
That's actually.
It's a great series.
There's a great job.
I don't know how he gets themout on a weekly basis, cause
they seem to be reallyincredible.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
It's basically producing a television show
every week and each one's 35minutes, and he's got other
episodes of other things thatcome out too.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
It's insane, but how?
What would be something thatyou would be interested in
watching, like right afterwatching one of those ones, if
you thought in your head, oh bam, that looks interesting.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
I would watch that next.
What would be a thing it mightbe like a shooting interview,
like what I started noticingafter watching some of these um
episodes a few months back was,for some reason it was insistent
on me seeing some shootinterviews.
When we talk about shoot inwrestling terms, it's where
people are kind of revealing thebusiness a little bit.
Yeah, and it was funily enough,the honky-tonk man shooting on
(29:59):
the Ultimate Warrior, aSummerSlam 88, saying he didn't
want to get a gorilla pressed.
So that's why the match was soshort.
It was like 30 seconds long.
I'm sorry everyone if you hadno idea what I was saying then,
but yeah, it was.
Realizer had an interesting, Iguess 80s slash, 90s wrestling
nostalgia and I just wanted toconsume everything.
(30:21):
It's kind of like similar withbooks.
Like at Amazon I getrecommended nothing but
autobiographies from wrestlersof that age.
Okay, yeah, it is.
Yeah, the internet knows mylife and everybody else's
basically.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
But it's so true, like, if you think about it, a
lot of those videos and anyonewho's listening.
If you look at your Up Next feed, you'll see the same thing
happen.
If you watch a video aboutsomething, inevitably you will
find a video by someone elseabout a similar subject.
Maybe even that was spokenabout in that video and it's not
just because the metadata toldthem hey, this was mentioned,
(30:55):
this was mentioned in the videois that people who watch that
video went to look for thatother content.
Maybe, for example, like in awrestling one I know that, like
Jim Cornette will talk about aparticular match and then you'll
want to go watch the match, sopeople will go look for that
match.
And if people do that enough,after watching that video,
youtube makes that dataconnection and makes it an up
next video which gets yousuggested views, which is what
(31:17):
we're talking about when we sayhow to use it to your advantage.
And when you find a reallypopular video that's talking
about something, think to yourmind what would a viewer want to
watch next?
After that, make that video.
That video can be thensuggested against a larger
channels video and get a wholebunch of views.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
We say this often, travis, but it is essentially
again.
We say this often, travis, butit is essentially again.
If we just remove the YouTubejargon out of this, it's joining
in on the conversation.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
And adding your own insight, opinion point of view.
Yeah, and it's difficult whenyou're first starting out and
you don't have any subscribersor any views and you're like,
well, you know, I can try tomake a video that's connected to
you.
Know, mr Beast, is it going towork?
Maybe, maybe not.
Like not.
All of this stuff is somethingwhen you have no viewers or no.
It's harder for YouTube tounderstand what that video is
about.
They do look at metadata atthat point.
I mean, todd has said that theylooked at the title and
(32:09):
description, trying to figureout what this video is about.
And then he suggests usingsearch to get your your your
first couple of uh views outthere, and that would be
something like um, so, forexample, what would someone
search for?
Uh, I know we're in wrestle,let's do something, I think yeah
we're starting to talk aboutintent here aren't we so?
Speaker 3 (32:28):
they're either the viewers coming onto youtube for
a specific reason to find outabout a news story, an event
that's happened.
They're in a purchasing mode.
They want to buy a piece oftech or something.
They're trying to solvesomething in a video game.
They're looking for somethingspecific and if you can really
hone in on what the viewer isneeding right at this very
(32:51):
moment and give them thevaluable answer, then, as you
say, travis, that kind ofnegates some of the social
proofing.
You know where you just seestuff on a home page and you
look at a tiny channel that'sonly got 50 views and it's like
well, I wasn't.
That topic's kind ofinteresting, but I don't you
know.
Quote and quote trust thatviewer, right, but if you're
(33:14):
searching for something and thesame video is like third in the
list, it still has 50 views, butlike the title seems like it's
going to tell me exactly what Ineed to know and like that
thumbnail is pretty compellingand it's only three minutes
right I'm going to dive in andwatch it.
I think that the key thing isalways like once you've been
discovered in search for mostcreators, the last thing you
(33:38):
want to find yourself in isbeing discovered in search over
and over and over and over again.
Because how often is thatviewer going to be in the same
intent mode?
You're churning throughaudience very quickly there.
You want that next video thatthey see to be something that's
just naturally compelling tothem in a kind of entertainment
(34:03):
slash, insightful way whenthey're just browsing around
YouTube.
And that's kind of what we hadto try and figure out.
Uh, vid IQ, when we wereostensibly a search based
channel and we pivoted to moreof a browse based channel like a
after the pandemic, where youknow, a lot of people were in
(34:23):
lockdown looking for somethingto do.
Start a new youtube channel,find vid iq but then they they
went away and we were reallystruggling to figure out how we
still get discovered, and it wasthrough changing our titles on
our packaging to be just morechanging our titles and our
packaging to be just morecompelling from an emotional,
yeah, curiosity point of viewfor the youtube audience in a
(34:43):
lot, the creator, the creator, Iguess, community, rather than
just, um, how do I get athousand subscribers?
which is kind of where we werefor a very long time, for a long
time.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
I think it's also important to think about.
Like I'll even talk about likean artistic channel.
Like what does that mean?
That means so, for example, youcould do the best 10 paints
from Amazon.
Now that leverages a couple ofthings.
Number one listicles workpretty well on YouTube period
end of story.
You're leveraging the Amazonname.
(35:14):
A lot of people might belooking to purchase particular
types of paints and stuff andthey want to know what's the
best ones.
They're looking at Amazonanyway.
So these things, you got allthese.
You're stacking all these decksin your favor for that video,
right, of course the video hasto be good and the thumbnail
needs to be good, but let's justassume those are good.
Then, from there, after you havethat video, after you brought
them in with search again, theintent is to come in and find
out which one so I can buy itand probably leave.
(35:35):
You might want to get them tocome back.
And how do you do that?
You can say you know how I wasable to paint this painting with
only two colors.
Like now, that's a moreintrigued.
That's not a search-based videoat all.
Like you're not, no one'ssearching for that, but it is
interesting, it's intriguing,it's like this the thing looks.
I mean, I'm assuming that thepicture looks amazing.
It looks like more than twocolors, but what do I know?
(35:56):
I'm not a painter.
But that's the intriguing part.
That's what we're talking aboutgoing from search what are the
10 best paints on Amazon tosomething intriguing like how I
made this painting with only twocolors.
That's where you go from searchto browse and get people to be
more a part of your communityand like you for your content
and come uniquely to you becauseyou are uniquely doing
something.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Yeah, I mean, I guess a classic example of where
we've done that is with acertain character who is like
the anti-YouTube educationexpert and trashes channels.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Yeah wild, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (36:31):
For some reason, the audience loves this guy.
I don't understand that either.
I don't get it, Travis.
I really don't.
You can explain that to me.
I don't get it, Travis.
I really don't.
You can explain that to me?
Speaker 2 (36:38):
I've seen that dude around and he scares me to death
.
I feel like one day I'm going towake up with no job because of
him, I don't know.
39.95.
39.95 every five minutes?
Yeah, so I think it's, andtaking a risk every once in a
while is a good thing, you know.
I mean I feel like the peoplewho've taken the most risks have
the most uh, have succeeded themost, versus some people that
(37:01):
are just taking it really safe.
Now, to be clear and to be veryhonest, sometimes being just
safe and one note can be allright.
If you're a search based channel, that's really about bringing
in views just for the sake ofthings like affiliate sales.
Fine, go for it, do that thing.
You can make good money onYouTube just through affiliate
sale videos.
Like I just said, these are thebest 10 paints.
(37:21):
These are the things you wantto buy when you're starting up a
studio.
You can do that and haveaffiliate linked videos that
people will search for for many,many years and you'll make lots
of money on.
There's nothing wrong with that.
I think that's amazing and it'sactually not a bad idea because
it takes your ego out ofeverything, which I think is
super important.
The algorithm doesn't careabout your ego.
It cares about what people areviewing for what they want and
(37:42):
what's going to keep them therethe longest.
So what we've talked about sofar is watch.
History is important.
So understanding what people arewatching before the video you
make, and making your video thatyou're making interesting to
people who've watched a previouspopular video, whether it be on
your channel or someone else Imean to be honest, to people
who've watched a previouspopular video, whether it be on
your channel, someone else,that's I mean to be honest if
you didn't listen to anythingelse.
That right there can help youget more views.
Period end of story.
But also, um, that things arepulled to viewers, not
(38:05):
necessarily pushed from you.
So if people are not onlinethat YouTube thinks are going to
be interested in your video,you might not get as many
impressions.
It might not have anything todo with your video and and we're
talking about right up frontPeople will eventually come back
to YouTube and if your video isgood over time, usually you'll
get views.
That's typically the case andsometimes surprisingly so, as
has happened on the vidIQchannel.
Many times we think a video isdead and then all of a sudden it
(38:26):
blows up.
Outdoor boys happen.
What was that all about?
Speaker 3 (38:32):
We're still trying to figure it out.
You can't see, rob, but ifyou're, listening.
Rob For the podcast audience.
I'm doing a shrug emoji.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
He's doing shrug emoji in real life, yeah, yeah,
and the tags aren't really thatimportant, but keywords are to
understand the interest inpeople.
Of course, you can use thevidIQ tool.
There's a link in thedescription and in the show
notes there's a free versionwhere you can go down there and
check out what people aresearching for and what the
intent is.
So I think the point of all ofthis is that, while we can't
fully, ever understand thealgorithm, we just need to
(38:59):
understand its intent.
Its intent is to keep viewerson the platform, and what do
viewers want?
They want to be entertained,educated, inspired, whatever it
is they're doing on YouTube, andto figure out what that is.
It's less about you, at leastinitially, as a smaller YouTuber
.
It's less about what you wantand a lot more about what the
viewer wants.
So you have to put aside someof your interests and stuff,
(39:21):
maybe in the moment if you wantto grow, which I think most
people listening to this want togrow.
Put that aside, think aboutwhat the viewer wants and give
them more.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
You give them more, you always get back more in the
long run.
I want to add one more piece tothis as well, travis, and it's
something again that Todd'smentioned, and I've been trying
to figure out how to demonstratethis visually.
He calls it digital word ofmouth, in how content is shared
between, I guess, youtubefriends who don't know their
(39:56):
YouTube friends.
I'm going to use you as theexample right and again I'm
going to share my screen becauseI think it's worth trying to
explain this.
Hopefully we can make somesense of it so we're going back
to the homepage.
We already know that the firstvideo suggested was the
wrestling one, right?
The second video that'srecommended is what you briefly
(40:18):
mentioned before.
With my interest in roadinfrastructure in the UK.
This channel called AutoShenanigans.
Now I would guess, travis, youhave no interest in that topic
whatsoever, right?
So we have no connection there.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
No, and by the way.
I practically guarantee a videofrom this channel will be
suggested to me later today ortomorrow, because it always
happens when we have theseconversations, that's a whole
other conversation we're goingto have about.
Is YouTube listening?
But I guarantee it will and I'mgoing to screenshot it and I'm
going to send it to you, rob,but no, normally I would not.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Please do.
If it does, then this justruins the entire example.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Let's find out.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
Next recommendation, marques Brownlee.
I would say there is a hell ofa lot of crossover between
myself and Travis.
Sure, we're both interested intech.
Yes, we see this creatorprobably as like an inspiration,
a pioneer in the tech industry.
Sure, okay.
Then on the next row we havesome highlights from the English
Premier League Again, biginterest for me, but I would
(41:12):
suspect, travis, you have nointerest in that, so that
wouldn't be something thatconnects with you.
Next one is a guide on aSamsung Galaxy S 25 Ultra or
something Again, something thatTravis and I have a very strong
interest in tech.
I think his is the curveballwhere I think this digital word
(41:33):
of mouth probably comes intoplay.
It's from a channel calledLegal Eagle.
Yes, and it's about like urgentmessages for members about some
lawyer stuff going on in the US.
Now, my guess correct me if I'mwrong, travis is that we
probably have like a small ormild interest in this creator
and their topic Because, firstof all, they're very well known
(41:56):
in the lawyer slash law space,but also I think just our
probably youtube, through all ofits data points, can work out
that if we have an interest intech and if we have a shared
interest in tech and a sharedinterest in us wrestling, then
you might be interested in in inlegal eagle.
Now, I know it's like a stretch, but I just think that, given
(42:20):
that this is the lastrecommendation in the second row
I think that's where thedigital word of mouth is it
might be like hey, travis, Iknow you like wrestling and tech
and this Devin guy from Leagueof League just has a really
interesting look on things thatI think you might be interested
in, just like in a casualconversation.
It might be something that weshare.
So if I'm wrong, let me know.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
no, because here's the thing uh, full transparency.
First, I've been using legalgoogle as an example of how to,
how to do pivots on youtube formany years.
Also, one of his uh showrunners, um, I used to work with
on another channel, wasrecently reaching out to me
about working with Devin on somestuff.
So, that aside, I did want toat least put that out there as,
(43:03):
like, hey, I kind of know what'sgoing on with Devin.
But I do want to point outsomething.
I'm actually not surprised it'scoming up for a number of
reasons.
Now, for me personally, like Isaid, there's a lot of reasons
because I've always selected him.
But if you go to his video page, I think you're going to find
this very funny.
Go to his video page and scrolldown to one, two, three, four,
five, six, seven, eight, nine,10.
(43:27):
So you'll see the one abouthoney If you scroll down far
enough, and then two below that,two rows below that one.
Yeah, do you see who's in thatthumbnail?
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Let me look.
So is this what I'm seeing?
So this is from five months ago.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
It's from five months ago.
Oh, five months ago.
So, if you keep scrolling down,you'll see the like we're suing
Honey.
But scroll down below that,like three rows below that, and
you'll see a face in thethumbnail with him which will
answer why.
Maybe tech is somewhat involvedwith this.
I mean, I can explain in otherways too, but you see it.
If not, let me share my screen.
(44:05):
Oh, marcus brownlee yeah, inthat ironic considering marcus
brownlee was on one of was yourtop level, so that means viewers
of mkbhd likely watched thatvideo, gotcha so there's that
thing we've been talking about,where viewers who watch
different thing are beingsuggested.
So legal legal is going to besuggested because some of his
videos I mean he's he he's notjust been there, he's also been
(44:26):
on a lot of other channels, techchannels as well, and his
viewerships are crosspollinating with tech.
So YouTube is testing yousaying, hey, I know other people
who've watched Legal Legal arereally interested in this and
they put it on your homepage.
So this is a literal example ofwhat we've been talking about.
You have something from MKBHDon your main page and he's
worked with MKBHD.
He's talked about MKBHD in oneof his previous videos and
(44:49):
YouTube is now testing to sayyou should check this out, you
might be interested.
Exact example.
I love that example.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Probably didn't even know it was an example at the
time, but no, no, I did.
There's all these unknownconnections and links now.
Travis haven't been talking toeach other about our watching
habits prior to this no this,was this just came up just in
the moment.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yeah, yeah so, but?
Speaker 3 (45:12):
but the thing is like this this is unknown knowledge
until we talk to each other wewouldn't have known this
otherwise.
Yeah, YouTube is listening toall of this by the actions each
viewer takes, and it's able toreally tie, put these strands
together and link potentialinterests for viewers all across
(45:33):
the globe.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
The view is all across the globe.
So what I'm going to challengethe listenership to send an
email to theboostatvidiqcom andtell me how you are going to use
this strategy in an upcomingvideo.
Like who are you looking at,what topics are trending in your
niche and how you want to takeadvantage of knowing how the
algorithm works in this way andhow it's being suggested based
on other things, and how you'regoing to use that in your
(45:55):
upcoming video.
We'll talk about it on some ofthe upcoming episodes Jen and I
are going to do as we're goingback to the studio, which is
kind of fun Nice.
Yeah, we'll answer some of thoseand see what you guys and gals
think over there.
So we greatly appreciate that.
If you're new here, feel freeto hit that subscribe button.
Of course, if you're listeningon the audio podcast, we'd love
for you to leave.
Leave us five star review onapple podcasts or spotify or
(46:15):
wherever you do that sort ofthing anymore.
And, uh, you know, come and, ofcourse, listen to us again, as
we got a lot of hot contentcoming up, ladies and gentlemen.
A lot of that hot content, rob.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Man, is there anything thatyou're working on that you're
kind of excited about for peopleto see?
Speaker 3 (46:35):
so I have a lot of videos that I've filmed waiting
for them to be edited.
I can't think of anythingspecifically right now.
It's been a lot of youtubeupdates that I've had to focus
on recently, yeah, uh, so I'vebeen tied up with them.
But yeah, just usual thingsfrom me.
This might be kind ofinteresting.
Just, this is a little sidething, we're only going to talk
about this for a couple minutes.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
So we do have an editing team.
Yeah, just usual things from me.
This might be kind ofinteresting.
This is a little side thing.
We're only going to talk aboutthis for a couple minutes.
So we do have an editing teampeople who edit some of the
videos for the main channel, butnot every single video you're
in is edited by someone else.
Sometimes you edit your ownstuff.
What is the process that youtake to do that?
Why do you decide sometimes toedit versus having one of our
(47:15):
editors do it?
Speaker 3 (47:17):
All right, this is a good question and it really
delves into the psychology ofmyself as a creator.
I call these Maverick videos orRob's gone rogue.
I think we have a bit of.
We have.
We have this is a bit of aphrase now whereby you know
we're part of a team and a lotof stuff goes through a process.
(47:38):
Yeah, however, when it comes toyoutube update videos, which
are very timely, they need to bereleased, sometimes within 24
hours of the news coming out.
I must admit that I stillsidestep everybody else in the
process, in the team, in thecompany.
(48:02):
Now, not to massage my own ego,but I do think, after being on
vidIQ for a decade and buildingup a channel to where it is, I
have permission and license tosometimes do that.
Permission and license tosometimes do that, but also I do
(48:24):
it because it creativelyfulfills and sustains me.
I call these my happy videosbecause I'm in my best place as
a creator when I can start avideo at like nine, eight, nine
o'clock in the morning and haveit published by 4 pm in the
afternoon.
Yeah, like I hate, I detesttaking videos over to another
day because I just lose my trainof thought, my creativity, the
(48:46):
direction that it's going in.
I don't know if anybodyresonates with that or thinks
I'm absolutely bonkers, that I Ilike to do stuff in a single
day.
So, yeah, just to have that, Iguess, that freedom to make
those videos in a single day,and it allows me to like,
practice my scripting skills andmy editing skills, cause I
(49:07):
don't want to lose that skillbeing in a team and just being,
like you know, a talent, readingan auto cue.
I don't want to fall into thattrap.
So, yeah, that that is a verylong story of why sometimes I
make videos completely by myself, because I still kneel, I still
feel that need of independenceand the agency agency to say you
(49:29):
know what, I'm just going to dosomething like this today and
go and do it, and the audiencereacts to it well, so I think I
have the audience's permissionto do it well, they always
perform well, yeah, so I think Ihave the audience's permission
to do it Well, they alwaysperform well, yeah, yeah, I
think it sounds fun, a fun ideaon the live stream to have a Rob
Goes Rogue moment or cornerLike every five minutes.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
You just every five minutes at the end of one
episode, rob Goes Rogue, and youput on like a heavy metal hat
or something I don't know whatthat would look like and you
just do something weird and justI don't know.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
I could 3D print something.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
yeah, yeah that would be cool.
That would be great.
I think it'd be fun, and if youwant to see more of Rob Kors,
you can check it out on the mainvidIQ channel.
Otherwise, we would love to seeyou back here next week on the
next episode.
See you in the next one.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Tube Talk
brought to you by vidIQ.
Head over to vidIQcom slashTubeTalk for today's show notes
and previous episodes.
Enjoy the rest of your videomaking day.
welcome to tube talk, the show dedicated to helping
you become a better videocreator so you can get more
views, subscribers and buildyour audience, brought to you by
vid iq.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
download for free at vid iqcom hey, welcome back to
the only podcast that'ssometimes international and
sometimes is local, and that'sgoing to be happening a lot over
the next couple of weeks.
Today I'm your host, travis,along with my special co-host
today, rob wilson, from the mainchannel.
How you doing, rob?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
hey travis.
Yes, you have goneinternational today and I know
this isn't related to today'sconversation, but we are
recording on a very specialbirthday for you.
Yes, 20 years since me at thezoo debuted on youtube and who
knew that would go into suchfolklore?
(00:50):
After 350 million views, 10million comments, 70 million
likes, you can tell I've beendoing the maths on this today
and who knows how many dislikes.
All thanks to will smith.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
What a lore and a history youtube has created for
us all it's funny because um 20years, I mean it's a long time
for anything.
I remember the last time that Iheard something that I saw that
said 20 years and made me feelold.
I mean, youtube is redoing itfor me.
Thanks for the flashback.
But I remember being in aTarget looking, walking past the
(01:25):
toy section and I looked on oneof the aisle caps and they had
super soakers.
Do you know what super soakersare?
Yeah, we have them over here.
By the way, this was years agoand they had the 20th
anniversary edition.
I was done.
I was so upset.
I was so upset.
I'm like wait a minute, 20years and you say it on YouTube
(01:46):
20 years, like what's going on?
Incredible stuff, and theplatform today is completely
different than it was back then,which is what we're going to
talk about today as far as howto get the YouTube algorithm
working for you today.
But if you're new here, welcome.
My name is Travis and we dothis podcast every week where we
talk a lot about how to growyour YouTube channel and
sometimes about candy and otherthings, mostly about candy.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Let's be honest.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Mostly about candy and sometimes about YouTuber-y
things.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yeah, I come here not to talk about YouTube, just so
everybody knows.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
That's great.
We can talk about video gamesand stuff too.
But let's real quick, talkabout technical difficulties,
which I've been having the lastcouple of weeks, and we'll get
right into the YouTube thingbecause it is mildly related.
So technology can be great, butI've had some technological
issues over the last couple ofweeks, which has included a
couple of last couple episodes.
So for a while there, for acouple of episodes, I've had to
(02:35):
record the audio here on myRodecaster Pro, which I love.
But I've had to do it.
I've had to do it locallybecause the audio, when I was
streaming here on our platformthat we use uh, was getting, was
scratching and having theseweird sound effects.
It was really strange.
I come to find out it was afirmware update that I had done
on my my roadcaster duo.
(02:57):
Um, that was messed up and theyended up having an update that
then fixed it.
And then so after I get throughthat, I'm like okay, finally I
fixed the issue, I don't have toworry about it anymore.
I get a new, I upgrade mycomputer, get a new video card
and videos just start killingand dropping, and this happened
in the last episode.
Literally at the end of thelast episode, my screen goes
(03:18):
black because my entire browsercrashed.
Turns out another driver driverissue technology.
There to help you and there tohurt you all at the same time.
You got to hate it.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
So is the lesson here Never upgrade any of your tech.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
In a weird way.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
It might be.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well now the scary part is I updated all my
networking stuff.
So I'm at a new router, a newmodem right now on new internet
connection, so everything'sfaster.
But if something goes wrongit's because I've changed
something else.
I need to stop doing that Ineed to.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
I look forward to the buffering icon imminently
appearing as your face just butI know I hope not I hope not,
because the thing is, this thingis super fast.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I downloaded 150 gig game in nine minutes yesterday.
Incredible, incredible game, isit?
Uh?
Nba 2k 25.
I wanted to play somebasketball.
I haven't done that in a while.
Okay, uh, all right, let'squick, let's get into the things
.
People here for the like wait aminute.
You guys saw my video.
Give them what they want.
Let me ask you a question,because I don't think I know the
(04:21):
answer to this when did you youfirst start on YouTube?
What was your first year thatyou were doing YouTube or
anything?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
So my first video was in 2008.
I started taking it seriouslyin 2012 and went full-time in
2017.
So like almost a decade'sjourney to get to a point where
you might call me a professionalquote-unquote YouTuber.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I still find it uncomfortable calling myself
that.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout that, because the way
things worked on YouTube backthen much different than they
are now.
Right, and we're going toexplain how that works
algorithmically in a minute, butonce upon a time, things like
tags and keywords and stuff werereally super high on the list
(05:09):
of things you wanted to do.
When you uploaded back intolike 2012 and stuff, would you
say that is that.
Is that fair?
Speaker 3 (05:14):
well, I would say the reason I do what I'm doing now
travis is because of tags,because I thought this is back
in 2015, but tags were werestill critical to the metadata
of content.
So I made a video about vidIQ'stools that allowed you to copy
tags from other videos and putthem on yours, and that's what
(05:36):
ended up establishing theconnection with Rob Sandy and
the rest is YouTube slash vidIQhistory at that point.
But yeah, I was very much theSEO fiend, I'd say, until about
2018, 19, even though YouTube,probably a year or two before
that, were already telling usthat metadata wasn't as
(05:57):
important.
I guess the mystery for me isalways when did it stop being
that important?
Are we talking like 2012, 2013?
Right, sooner earlier, andTodd's kind of always hinted at
this, certainly since he's beenat YouTube, which is, I think,
about a decade now.
(06:17):
But it's taken many of us,people who were inside the
industry, to wean ourselves offthis, and we're having a hell of
a hard time trying to educatenot only creators who've been at
this for years themselves, butnew creators who, for some
reason, still come into theyoutube landscape thinking that
(06:39):
metadata is far more importantthan the emotion or the intrigue
of a title and a thumbnail.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, and so part of that is YouTube educators' fault
.
Right For many years that waskind of the thing.
I will hold up my hands, but Imean, it was true, but it was
true at one time and whilecertain aspects of it are still
true today, very, very little ofit, of what was said even four
or five years ago is true today,especially when it comes to the
algorithm.
(07:06):
Now a couple of things to makenote of.
Keywords and tags are not thesame thing.
They're kind of a Venn diagramof can they be similar things?
Can they be the same thing incertain situations?
Sure, a keyword can be a tag.
However, when you're talkingabout keywords, you're talking
about words that are in titles,descriptions and even topics
that lead to a topic, basically.
(07:28):
So, in other words, a keywordcould be what's a good keyword,
like cake.
Why don't we just talk aboutcake when I'm here?
It could be cake.
That could be a keyword.
You can put that in the tagsection of a YouTube video and
if you don't have any kind ofviewership like if no
subscribers or something andYouTube starts trying to figure
(07:50):
out what this video is about, itmight use that information for
that, and I think Todd wouldpray once in a long time said we
kind of just use it formisspellings at this point,
right, like hardly even what thevideo is about.
It's more title and description.
But the keywords are importantto understand what the interest
is in a topic.
So we have that tool with vidIQand it's good to see how many
people are searching for that orhow many videos have those
keywords.
So that's different.
(08:11):
A lot of people get thoseconfused.
They think keywords and tagsare the same thing.
They're not.
They can have similarsituations.
They're not the same thing.
So we're not talking aboutkeywords.
Keywords are very important,always important.
You need to know what's working, what's not.
Tags that little section thatyou have to click down on now
and add things in.
Which is interesting, robbecause I think you pointed this
out when they first did that isthat it's not easy to find
(08:33):
anymore.
It's not above the fold, asthey say.
You actually have to clicksomething to show it.
Show them all.
Yeah, what do you think thatmeans from?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
the side of YouTube by them putting it underneath of
something that you have toclick.
So they're clearly trying tode-emphasize the importance of
tags and have been for a while.
My main criticism of youtube onthat front is that they had a
golden opportunity three, fouryears ago to completely remove
the concept of tags from thelexicon of YouTube when they
(09:07):
changed the creator studio fromthe classic version to the new
version, and I think peoplewould have complained about it
then, obviously, but becausethere was so much change going
on at that point, I think theymay have been able to get away
with it in that sense, you know,like I don't mean get away, but
like be able to.
It's kind of like burying badnews under a lot of changes.
(09:32):
Yeah, the same thing.
It's not bad news.
I think it's trying toeliminate tags or something's
important.
And then another thing is whythey left it at 500 characters
when they talk about it onlybeing used for misspellings.
Can you fill up a box ofmisspellings with 500 characters
?
I think that's impossible.
So there's a box there.
(09:54):
I'm gonna fill it if it's there, if I think there's a marginal
gain of one or two percent.
I mean, as you say now withtools from vidIQ and elsewhere,
it is so easy to just copy andpaste and drop in those words as
an afterthought After 99% ofthe other upload.
Things have been done for yourchannel, really.
(10:15):
And yeah, just to piggyback onwhat you were saying about the
difference in keywords and tags,I always see keywords as like
your dictionary or yourthesaurus for your topic.
This is you understandinglanguage of your audience so
that you communicate with themwith the same, with the same
(10:37):
language, with the same.
What's the right word?
I'm struggling to find a way todescribe this.
It's like just trying todiscuss talking to your audience
at an intellectual level whereyou're sharing these things, um,
words that we all understand.
You know, when we talk aboutyoutube, it's like average view
duration, thumbnails, what else?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
like your vocabulary pattern interrupts hooks.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Like you know, hook is such a generic term in a
dictionary, but when we use itin youtube language as a very
specific meaning, and that'swhat we mean when we talk about
a keyword now, just includinghook as a tag would be pretty
useless because it doesn't havethat same meaning.
So that's what we talk about akeyword.
Now just including hook as atag would be pretty useless
because it doesn't have thatsame meaning.
So that's what we mean about inin the context of talking about
youtube.
(11:23):
We all know what hook means,but just sticking it as a tag in
a video, it loses that context.
Yeah, I think that's.
I think that's probably thebest way to try and define the
difference in keywords and tagsand how one is important and one
isn't necessarily as importantas it may be.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Once, yeah, and the other thing is, think about
when's the last time you clickedon a video because of its tags.
You probably have never donethat, because I don't even know
that they give you the option todo that.
Like where would you see tagsother than our tool, right
without actual you?
Speaker 3 (11:52):
wouldn't see them.
It's impossible to quantifybecause the if you search
specifically for a tag onYouTube I think I did this
experiment was it five years agowhen I inserted a unique
identifier.
I think it was like quidditch54321, like a tag that nobody
else would have ever used.
If you put it in a title, ifyou put it in a description,
(12:15):
then it will show up in search,but if you put it in a tags area
, it doesn't influence whetherit shows up in search, and we're
talking about something that Iexperimented with half a decade
ago, so that's going to evolveeven further at this point.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Yeah, and I actually even did a video about how
YouTube search really works acouple of months ago, and what I
thought was really interestingabout it was that even while the
title and thumbnail or sorry,the title and description can
definitely help rank in search,really what it comes down to is
what people are getting oncethey type those words into
search and then what they clickon next, like it's irrelevant.
Like, technically you couldhave something that doesn't have
.
What I shouldn't saytechnically, because it happens
all the time where you searchfor something and those words
(12:55):
aren't even anywhere near anydescription or text or anything,
but it's the subject youactually want.
So, for example, I think I evensaid in the video something
about you can type in chocolatecake into search and with no
context, you could just bewanting to watch a video of
chocolate cakes, but everythingthat comes up is how to make one
.
Well, why is that?
Because most people who aretyping in chocolate cake want to
(13:18):
know how to make one.
Well, why is that?
Because most people who aretyping in chocolate cake want to
know how to make it.
They don't necessarily want toeat or watch someone eat it,
although there are people whowant to watch that, but that's
not what you would type in forsearch.
If you try it yourself, anyonewho's listening.
Go to YouTube.
Type in chocolate cake, noother context, watch it, and
everything that comes up in thebeginning is a how-to how to
think an interesting experimentthere might be.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Travis is let's say you start an incognito tab or
you create a dummy account andyou watch nothing but mukbangs
and ASMR eating videos and thentry, and then on another account
you just only watch videosabout how to make desserts.
Yeah, and then I wonder if howdifferent the search would be
like if you're putting chocolatecake, you would assume that for
(13:57):
the mukbang ASMR fan it wouldbe all of that related content,
but for the other channel withthe interest in the tutorials,
then it would be all the how-tostuff.
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I actually do want to try that because that could be
like a part two of how theYouTube search works.
That's a really cool idea.
So for anyone who doesn't know,one of the things about when
you're trying to target thingsin YouTube algorithm to figure
out what the algo is pushing oractually we're going to talk
about in a minute pulling is tohave a quote dummy account, an
account that doesn't have yourwatch history or anything
(14:30):
because we're going to talkabout in a minute why watch
history is so important and thenjust watch videos specifically
on that account.
So you can actually sign up tomultiple accounts under your
email address and only watchcertain content on that account.
So you can see what type ofcontent YouTube is pushing, and
that's actually a great place toget ideations for videos in
your niche.
So if you were to open a startup another viewer account under
(14:52):
your email address or whatever,and only watch competitors in
your in your niche, you willstart to find channels that
you've never heard of before inyour niche that are doing really
great things and can give yousome really great ideas for your
own videos One of the littlesecret things that sometimes we
tell people to try when they'retrying to find out ideas.
So what Rob is saying here andit's really interesting is based
(15:13):
off that, because YouTubeunderstands what you're wanting
to watch next, will search, thenchange and that's you know.
To be honest, I don't know.
I don't think it will, but Iwould love to find out.
I would love to find outbecause it would not surprise me
if it did, because it wouldmake total sense Interesting.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
I just want to take you back to a little experiment
I did.
I was doing a session recentlyfor TV executives who are
getting into YouTube and Iwanted to try and show how
quickly YouTube gets an idea ofa viewer's interest.
So if you open up YouTube andyou're not logged in, you don't
(15:52):
actually see a homepage anymore,you just see a box that says
try searching to get started.
And it literally says startwatching videos to help build a
feed of videos that you'll love,right, yep, yep.
So I did a search for greatbritish bake-off.
I'm sure there's an americanversion of this.
It's like a very popular showand I watched one of those
videos.
And then I looked at thesuggested column and there was
(16:12):
another video.
That was about a show calledcome dine with me.
This is a show in the uk whereeach night a contestant hosts
the other contestants and doeslike a meal and entertainment
and whatever.
So I watched just those twovideos and then when I went back
to the home page, itrecommended me obviously more
(16:33):
food videos.
Right, what, what?
what it also realized was that Iwas probably a fan of reality
television yeah and becausethose two shows are kind of like
unscripted, are the unscriptedreality shows and so, yeah, it
was doing that as well.
And then american food versusuk food, and also as well, it
(16:53):
must have assumed that I was acertain type of person who was
interested in, um, what was itnow like cleaning, cleaning your
house?
Or um, like huge clear outvlogs and stuff like that.
And that was all from justwatching two videos yeah and so
yeah, and that must be from allof the trillions of data points
(17:15):
that they've been able to graspfrom billions of videos that are
on the platform.
Well, that's an interestingside question.
How many videos do you thinkthere are on YouTube at this
point, travis?
Do you reckon it's still in thebillions, or could we be at
trillions?
Speaker 2 (17:27):
We're at a number that I don't think we have words
for, because a couple of yearsago it used to be 500 hours
every every minute, but that wasbefore shorts, yeah, so if you
take shorts as videos as well,there is a word for it.
It's more than Google, becausea Google is one with a thousand
zeros behind it.
It's more than a Google anumber of videos, for sure, I
(17:49):
don't know.
I mean, just within therecording of this podcast,
there's probably thousands ofvideos being recorded every
minute that we're talking, whichis insane to think about.
But let's talk a little bitabout what you just said there.
So this section right herewe're going to talk about right
here.
I'm going to timestamp thisright here, right here.
Just, I want you to listen tome right here.
This is how the YouTubealgorithm works and it's
important to know how it works.
So you know how to get it towork for you, because,
conceptually, if you don'tunderstand how something works,
(18:12):
it's hard to get it to work foryou.
So what does the YouTubealgorithm do and why do we know
this?
We know this for a couple ofreasons.
Number one we do YouTube.
We know this.
We've been doing YouTube for along time.
We know this, but Todd Bouprefrom YouTube, who works on the
algorithm, actually came on avidIQ something we used to call
vidIQ Max and is on a one of, Ithink, our second most popular
video on our YouTube channel andtalked about how the YouTube
(18:35):
algorithm works.
And it's important to understandthat when you put a video up on
YouTube, it isn't so much thatit's being pushed out which is,
I think, what most creatorsthink because we think from our
side of it pushed out to viewers, it's actually being pulled in
by the viewers that are onlineat that time.
Now, once you conceptuallyunderstand that, okay, it's not
from our side, it does look likeit's being pushed out because
(18:56):
you see impressions, right, rob?
So it's easy to think, oh, myvideo's being pushed out, when
in actuality, it's the peoplethat are online that might be
interested in that video thatare being pushed too.
Is that an important difference?
Do you think, if you reallybreak it down, are we slicing
the onion too thick?
Speaker 3 (19:10):
I think it is in terms of the consistency of your
content.
I think just from an individualvideo that you make, you could
just assume that, yeah,youtube's going to push it out
to people and then, oh, thatvideo did well, I'll just make
another video, because YouTubethinks I'm a good creator and I
make good videos.
Therefore, this next video,irrespective of what it's about
(19:33):
and who it's aimed at, youtubewill again just push it out.
But that's not necessarily howit works and it's you have to
think of it from a viewer'spoint of viewing, the sense that
if I watch friends and I reallyenjoy it, but then at the same
time, the following week, whenI'm expecting another episode of
friends instead, the tv networkdecides to show a football
(19:54):
match or a musical, like, ohwell, I was expecting this at
this time on this network and Ididn't get that.
So I guess, from a YouTubeperspective, all you're doing
there is kind of removing thetime, because videos can go out
at any point on YouTube.
But I'm coming to YouTubeexpecting this type of content
(20:17):
from these creators and if thosecreators don't supply that to
quote, unquote the network thatis youtube then it won't
necessarily decide to give giveme that impression for that
viewer.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, and this all comes down to watch history.
So when you're on YouTube,there's actually a little thing
on the left-hand side.
You can click the littlehamburger and you'll see
something that says history.
It shows all the videos you'vewatched on YouTube and how long
you've watched them.
That's why you can stop a videohalfway, come back and then
it'll replay it from where youstarted.
It's very important.
It's really great from a viewerperspective, but it also gives
YouTube a lot of information,especially especially if you
(20:53):
come back to the same video andcomplete the video.
It's actually a good signal.
So how does this all work?
Watch history is the number oneway that YouTube figures out
what it it's going to predictthat you will want to watch next
, and it knows this better thanyou do.
You might think, oh, I knowexactly what I want to watch
next, but I will tell you almosta hundred percent of the time,
based on if you you know Robjust kind of described earlier.
If you go to your homepage,you're going to see videos from
(21:16):
channels you're subscribed toright Channels you're not
subscribed to but have watchedbefore and maybe are on topics
that you like and then you'regoing to see these random videos
.
They seem random that are aboutnothing you've ever looked at
by video creators you've neverheard of, on subjects you would
probably never even look at.
But I practically guarantee ifyou click one of those you're
going to love it, becauseYouTube already knows you're
(21:36):
going to love it, based on watchhistory and predictive
algorithms, knowing that peoplewho've watched the same things
that you've watched liked thisvideo as well.
So, for example, let's just takethe example of Rob and I.
Let's say Rob and I both let'ssay we both watch wrestling
videos on YouTube, which is atrue statement.
We both do watch that, right, Ialso watch video game, uh
(21:59):
videos, and and rob does as well.
But let's say I watch a wholeother type of um video like, uh,
murder mysteries and stuff.
Maybe rob doesn't like that,but maybe he watches I don't
know what's something elseyou've watched.
It's like, oh, you watch thosevideos about like the, the, the
uk, uh, streets and stuff, right, yeah the uh, the
infrastructure of the highwaysin the UK.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Right right Auto shenanigans.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Great channel.
I highly recommend it.
I definitely have never seen it.
Probably wouldn't watch it,right.
So we have these things that wedo watch that are similar, and
then we have these two thingsthat are not similar.
So what YouTube does is itlooks and says, okay, well, they
both watch these very similarthings, so we know they're kind
of similar watchers.
But these two outlying thingslet's see if anyone else who
watches those two things thewrestling and video games watch
(22:41):
one of those other two, and ifone of those people likes to
watch that.
Now you've got this thing ofokay, now we can test.
Now, obviously it's not thissmall.
It happens probably millions oftimes per second.
Probably at this point but it'sjust to give you an
understanding Say, okay, well,people who like wrestling and
video games might like this,this driving, or this, uh, this
street channel, because Rob andtwo other people who also like
(23:04):
wrestling and video games alsohave watched that.
So that's where you'll see thatrandom video pop up on the home
screen for people that maybeonly watch video games about, uh
, videos about video games andwrestling.
All of a sudden you get thisstreet video.
Like what the heck is this?
They click and watch it andthey like it.
Now there's another data point,and you can just grow upon that
knowledge to then predict thetype of things that you will
(23:25):
like, based on hundreds ofthousands or millions of data
points that you couldn'tpossibly ever figure out for
yourself.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Travis, you mentioned wrestling and I have a perfect
example I want to show you.
I'm going to risk this.
I'm going to try and share myscreen so people watching can
enjoy this.
You can see my home screen andin the top left-hand corner,
which is predominantly, I'd say,the first video people want to
(23:52):
pick up.
That's like the prime numberone real estate on the YouTube
homepage, travis.
Can you just read out the titleof the video for me please?
Speaker 2 (23:59):
raw versus nitro we living the war, episode 243.
I'm very familiar withwrestling bios, uh, youtube
channel, so I I watch thisparticular series religiously.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Every thursday night, this creator publishes a video
about the history of a mondaynight wrestling wars.
Okay, you don't need to knowthe details.
It's fascinating to me.
Now here's the crazy thing.
Right, If I click on thechannel right, and we look at
the channel itself, what can yousee?
Or what am I hovering overright now?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
So I'm glad you brought this up, because I was
literally going to talk aboutthis.
What you're seeing.
If you're watching the YouTubechannel, you can see this.
He's actually not subscribed tothis channel, yet the number
one video on his homepage wasfrom Wrestling Bios.
One of the things I did want totalk about we'll get there in a
minute, but let's talk a littlebit about this right now is are
subscribes that important?
And in the case of this, I callthis phenomenon subscribe but
(24:51):
not subscribed, because you aregetting all of his videos,
You're just not subscribed.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Because you are getting all of his videos,
absolutely, you're just notsubscribed.
Now, the other bonkers thing isTravis.
If I scroll down, I don'treally watch any of Wrestling
Bio's other videos.
Yeah, like Bob Holly HatesEveryone, wcw 1996.
I'm just following the series,right, and YouTube will
recommend those videos, butmaybe like on the second row
Right or like further down thehomepage.
But Reliving the, the war, theseries the series it knows I'm
(25:20):
locked in it knows to that right.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
It knows specifically the videos I was.
This exact thing has happenedto me the exact video series
from that creator.
I'll I'll do you one better.
I'll do you one better.
This when I saw this phenomenonhappen, I was so shocked at how
good the algorithm was in realtime that I already kind of
thought I knew what was going on.
Then, when I saw this, I waslike oh my God, I can't believe
(25:42):
this.
So many a year ago I think itwas before I was even with vidIQ
I'm not sure, I think it wasKSI or something had a boxing
match.
One of the one of theinfluencers had a boxing match
and, you know, people weretrying to stream it on YouTube,
but they were getting taken downlike quickly, right, like very
(26:03):
quickly, cause you weren'tsupposed to stream it on YouTube
.
I was watching on YouTube and Isaw these channels pop up and
these videos pop up and thengetting taken down within like
15 seconds Well, some of themfaster than others and then I
would see these videos berecommended to me on my homepage
.
That had nothing to do withanything.
They were like SpongeBobSquarePants, episode six, and
I'm like that's weird.
So I clicked on it and it wasthe live stream from the fight.
(26:23):
So the creators were trying tocompletely fool the system by
not putting anything in thethumbnail or title about it.
But YouTube's recommendationengine still knew, despite the
fact that the title andthumbnail had nothing to do with
it, that that live stream waswhat I had been trying to watch
before.
I have never seen anything likethat since, or.
But it just goes to show thatit knows what's going on in the
(26:45):
video and it knew.
Just, I didn't watch anyspongebob content, it wasn't
anything about that.
But I even knew and, looking atthe thumbnail and title and
just some of the ways they werewording things, that that's what
it was, and so did thealgorithm.
It was the most mind-blowingmoment about the algorithm,
crazy.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
So the automated system is checking.
I guess the titles andthumbnails was being
circumvented, yes, but thealgorithm itself wasn't doing a
check on whether the contentshould be on YouTube Right, in
other words, like whether it wascopyright material or not.
(27:20):
It was only interested infinding the right viewer, yes,
or the view was pulling ittowards.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Absolutely, absolutely.
It's incredible, and this goesto other things.
So some people go well, myself,a shadow band or whatever, and
while you can have, like, viewssuppressed based on different
things depending on what it isyou're doing nine times I think
that's not the case.
We've talked about this with um, uh, with moist critical, who
you know has a bunch of his, hisuh videos that are, um, that
(27:48):
are not suppressed, but whatwould be the right word here
restricted, restricted mode,yeah, yeah, um, you can stop
sharing here.
So I think what's important toknow is, even though they were
all in quote, restricted mode,he's still getting millions of
views every video, becauseYouTube's the algorithm itself,
weirdly, um, we'll still try itsbest to find the viewer for
(28:09):
that content.
So how do you use that to youradvantage?
Knowing that watching people'swatch history is really
important and people's intentionto watch things is very
important, how do you do that?
Well, hey, you got to know whatpeople are wanting to watch,
right, and if you can find apassion within that we talk a
lot about passion here on thispodcast and if you know the
passion for what you want totalk about now, you got to look
at like, okay, what is gettingviews.
(28:30):
What is getting views?
What are people watching?
If someone watches this video,for example, the Monday Night
Wars you just brought up, if youand I started a wrestling
podcast and on day one we haveno videos, we're like, well,
look, this guy is getting a lotof views every Thursday.
He does this.
A good follow-up would besomething about that same exact
(28:50):
subject slash topic that looksfamiliar enough to the person
watching that content that theywould be interested in watching
ours.
So it might be the reaction tothat, or a secondary opinion
about what was said in thatparticular video piece,
something that funnels from theinterest that exists to what
would that person want to watchnext?
So like it, for example, inthis thing um, you like to watch
(29:11):
the money that works, which Ilove too.
That's actually.
It's a great series.
There's a great job.
I don't know how he gets themout on a weekly basis, cause
they seem to be reallyincredible.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
It's basically producing a television show
every week and each one's 35minutes, and he's got other
episodes of other things thatcome out too.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
It's insane, but how?
What would be something thatyou would be interested in
watching, like right afterwatching one of those ones, if
you thought in your head, oh bam, that looks interesting.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
I would watch that next.
What would be a thing it mightbe like a shooting interview,
like what I started noticingafter watching some of these um
episodes a few months back was,for some reason it was insistent
on me seeing some shootinterviews.
When we talk about shoot inwrestling terms, it's where
people are kind of revealing thebusiness a little bit.
Yeah, and it was funily enough,the honky-tonk man shooting on
(29:59):
the Ultimate Warrior, aSummerSlam 88, saying he didn't
want to get a gorilla pressed.
So that's why the match was soshort.
It was like 30 seconds long.
I'm sorry everyone if you hadno idea what I was saying then,
but yeah, it was.
Realizer had an interesting, Iguess 80s slash, 90s wrestling
nostalgia and I just wanted toconsume everything.
(30:21):
It's kind of like similar withbooks.
Like at Amazon I getrecommended nothing but
autobiographies from wrestlersof that age.
Okay, yeah, it is.
Yeah, the internet knows mylife and everybody else's
basically.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
But it's so true, like, if you think about it, a
lot of those videos and anyonewho's listening.
If you look at your Up Next feed, you'll see the same thing
happen.
If you watch a video aboutsomething, inevitably you will
find a video by someone elseabout a similar subject.
Maybe even that was spokenabout in that video and it's not
just because the metadata toldthem hey, this was mentioned,
(30:55):
this was mentioned in the videois that people who watch that
video went to look for thatother content.
Maybe, for example, like in awrestling one I know that, like
Jim Cornette will talk about aparticular match and then you'll
want to go watch the match, sopeople will go look for that
match.
And if people do that enough,after watching that video,
youtube makes that dataconnection and makes it an up
next video which gets yousuggested views, which is what
(31:17):
we're talking about when we sayhow to use it to your advantage.
And when you find a reallypopular video that's talking
about something, think to yourmind what would a viewer want to
watch next?
After that, make that video.
That video can be thensuggested against a larger
channels video and get a wholebunch of views.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
We say this often, travis, but it is essentially
again.
We say this often, travis, butit is essentially again.
If we just remove the YouTubejargon out of this, it's joining
in on the conversation.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
And adding your own insight, opinion point of view.
Yeah, and it's difficult whenyou're first starting out and
you don't have any subscribersor any views and you're like,
well, you know, I can try tomake a video that's connected to
you.
Know, mr Beast, is it going towork?
Maybe, maybe not.
Like not.
All of this stuff is somethingwhen you have no viewers or no.
It's harder for YouTube tounderstand what that video is
about.
They do look at metadata atthat point.
I mean, todd has said that theylooked at the title and
(32:09):
description, trying to figureout what this video is about.
And then he suggests usingsearch to get your your your
first couple of uh views outthere, and that would be
something like um, so, forexample, what would someone
search for?
Uh, I know we're in wrestle,let's do something, I think yeah
we're starting to talk aboutintent here aren't we so?
Speaker 3 (32:28):
they're either the viewers coming onto youtube for
a specific reason to find outabout a news story, an event
that's happened.
They're in a purchasing mode.
They want to buy a piece oftech or something.
They're trying to solvesomething in a video game.
They're looking for somethingspecific and if you can really
hone in on what the viewer isneeding right at this very
(32:51):
moment and give them thevaluable answer, then, as you
say, travis, that kind ofnegates some of the social
proofing.
You know where you just seestuff on a home page and you
look at a tiny channel that'sonly got 50 views and it's like
well, I wasn't.
That topic's kind ofinteresting, but I don't you
know.
Quote and quote trust thatviewer, right, but if you're
(33:14):
searching for something and thesame video is like third in the
list, it still has 50 views, butlike the title seems like it's
going to tell me exactly what Ineed to know and like that
thumbnail is pretty compellingand it's only three minutes
right I'm going to dive in andwatch it.
I think that the key thing isalways like once you've been
discovered in search for mostcreators, the last thing you
(33:38):
want to find yourself in isbeing discovered in search over
and over and over and over again.
Because how often is thatviewer going to be in the same
intent mode?
You're churning throughaudience very quickly there.
You want that next video thatthey see to be something that's
just naturally compelling tothem in a kind of entertainment
(34:03):
slash, insightful way whenthey're just browsing around
YouTube.
And that's kind of what we hadto try and figure out.
Uh, vid IQ, when we wereostensibly a search based
channel and we pivoted to moreof a browse based channel like a
after the pandemic, where youknow, a lot of people were in
(34:23):
lockdown looking for somethingto do.
Start a new youtube channel,find vid iq but then they they
went away and we were reallystruggling to figure out how we
still get discovered, and it wasthrough changing our titles on
our packaging to be just morechanging our titles and our
packaging to be just morecompelling from an emotional,
yeah, curiosity point of viewfor the youtube audience in a
(34:43):
lot, the creator, the creator, Iguess, community, rather than
just, um, how do I get athousand subscribers?
which is kind of where we werefor a very long time, for a long
time.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
I think it's also important to think about.
Like I'll even talk about likean artistic channel.
Like what does that mean?
That means so, for example, youcould do the best 10 paints
from Amazon.
Now that leverages a couple ofthings.
Number one listicles workpretty well on YouTube period
end of story.
You're leveraging the Amazonname.
(35:14):
A lot of people might belooking to purchase particular
types of paints and stuff andthey want to know what's the
best ones.
They're looking at Amazonanyway.
So these things, you got allthese.
You're stacking all these decksin your favor for that video,
right, of course the video hasto be good and the thumbnail
needs to be good, but let's justassume those are good.
Then, from there, after you havethat video, after you brought
them in with search again, theintent is to come in and find
out which one so I can buy itand probably leave.
(35:35):
You might want to get them tocome back.
And how do you do that?
You can say you know how I wasable to paint this painting with
only two colors.
Like now, that's a moreintrigued.
That's not a search-based videoat all.
Like you're not, no one'ssearching for that, but it is
interesting, it's intriguing,it's like this the thing looks.
I mean, I'm assuming that thepicture looks amazing.
It looks like more than twocolors, but what do I know?
(35:56):
I'm not a painter.
But that's the intriguing part.
That's what we're talking aboutgoing from search what are the
10 best paints on Amazon tosomething intriguing like how I
made this painting with only twocolors.
That's where you go from searchto browse and get people to be
more a part of your communityand like you for your content
and come uniquely to you becauseyou are uniquely doing
something.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Yeah, I mean, I guess a classic example of where
we've done that is with acertain character who is like
the anti-YouTube educationexpert and trashes channels.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Yeah wild, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (36:31):
For some reason, the audience loves this guy.
I don't understand that either.
I don't get it, Travis.
I really don't.
You can explain that to me.
I don't get it, Travis.
I really don't.
You can explain that to me?
Speaker 2 (36:38):
I've seen that dude around and he scares me to death
.
I feel like one day I'm going towake up with no job because of
him, I don't know.
39.95.
39.95 every five minutes?
Yeah, so I think it's, andtaking a risk every once in a
while is a good thing, you know.
I mean I feel like the peoplewho've taken the most risks have
the most uh, have succeeded themost, versus some people that
(37:01):
are just taking it really safe.
Now, to be clear and to be veryhonest, sometimes being just
safe and one note can be allright.
If you're a search based channel, that's really about bringing
in views just for the sake ofthings like affiliate sales.
Fine, go for it, do that thing.
You can make good money onYouTube just through affiliate
sale videos.
Like I just said, these are thebest 10 paints.
(37:21):
These are the things you wantto buy when you're starting up a
studio.
You can do that and haveaffiliate linked videos that
people will search for for many,many years and you'll make lots
of money on.
There's nothing wrong with that.
I think that's amazing and it'sactually not a bad idea because
it takes your ego out ofeverything, which I think is
super important.
The algorithm doesn't careabout your ego.
It cares about what people areviewing for what they want and
(37:42):
what's going to keep them therethe longest.
So what we've talked about sofar is watch.
History is important.
So understanding what people arewatching before the video you
make, and making your video thatyou're making interesting to
people who've watched a previouspopular video, whether it be on
your channel or someone else Imean to be honest, to people
who've watched a previouspopular video, whether it be on
your channel, someone else,that's I mean to be honest if
you didn't listen to anythingelse.
That right there can help youget more views.
Period end of story.
But also, um, that things arepulled to viewers, not
(38:05):
necessarily pushed from you.
So if people are not onlinethat YouTube thinks are going to
be interested in your video,you might not get as many
impressions.
It might not have anything todo with your video and and we're
talking about right up frontPeople will eventually come back
to YouTube and if your video isgood over time, usually you'll
get views.
That's typically the case andsometimes surprisingly so, as
has happened on the vidIQchannel.
Many times we think a video isdead and then all of a sudden it
(38:26):
blows up.
Outdoor boys happen.
What was that all about?
Speaker 3 (38:32):
We're still trying to figure it out.
You can't see, rob, but ifyou're, listening.
Rob For the podcast audience.
I'm doing a shrug emoji.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
He's doing shrug emoji in real life, yeah, yeah,
and the tags aren't really thatimportant, but keywords are to
understand the interest inpeople.
Of course, you can use thevidIQ tool.
There's a link in thedescription and in the show
notes there's a free versionwhere you can go down there and
check out what people aresearching for and what the
intent is.
So I think the point of all ofthis is that, while we can't
fully, ever understand thealgorithm, we just need to
(38:59):
understand its intent.
Its intent is to keep viewerson the platform, and what do
viewers want?
They want to be entertained,educated, inspired, whatever it
is they're doing on YouTube, andto figure out what that is.
It's less about you, at leastinitially, as a smaller YouTuber
.
It's less about what you wantand a lot more about what the
viewer wants.
So you have to put aside someof your interests and stuff,
(39:21):
maybe in the moment if you wantto grow, which I think most
people listening to this want togrow.
Put that aside, think aboutwhat the viewer wants and give
them more.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
You give them more, you always get back more in the
long run.
I want to add one more piece tothis as well, travis, and it's
something again that Todd'smentioned, and I've been trying
to figure out how to demonstratethis visually.
He calls it digital word ofmouth, in how content is shared
between, I guess, youtubefriends who don't know their
(39:56):
YouTube friends.
I'm going to use you as theexample right and again I'm
going to share my screen becauseI think it's worth trying to
explain this.
Hopefully we can make somesense of it so we're going back
to the homepage.
We already know that the firstvideo suggested was the
wrestling one, right?
The second video that'srecommended is what you briefly
(40:18):
mentioned before.
With my interest in roadinfrastructure in the UK.
This channel called AutoShenanigans.
Now I would guess, travis, youhave no interest in that topic
whatsoever, right?
So we have no connection there.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
No, and by the way.
I practically guarantee a videofrom this channel will be
suggested to me later today ortomorrow, because it always
happens when we have theseconversations, that's a whole
other conversation we're goingto have about.
Is YouTube listening?
But I guarantee it will and I'mgoing to screenshot it and I'm
going to send it to you, rob,but no, normally I would not.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Please do.
If it does, then this justruins the entire example.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Let's find out.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
Next recommendation, marques Brownlee.
I would say there is a hell ofa lot of crossover between
myself and Travis.
Sure, we're both interested intech.
Yes, we see this creatorprobably as like an inspiration,
a pioneer in the tech industry.
Sure, okay.
Then on the next row we havesome highlights from the English
Premier League Again, biginterest for me, but I would
(41:12):
suspect, travis, you have nointerest in that, so that
wouldn't be something thatconnects with you.
Next one is a guide on aSamsung Galaxy S 25 Ultra or
something Again, something thatTravis and I have a very strong
interest in tech.
I think his is the curveballwhere I think this digital word
(41:33):
of mouth probably comes intoplay.
It's from a channel calledLegal Eagle.
Yes, and it's about like urgentmessages for members about some
lawyer stuff going on in the US.
Now, my guess correct me if I'mwrong, travis is that we
probably have like a small ormild interest in this creator
and their topic Because, firstof all, they're very well known
(41:56):
in the lawyer slash law space,but also I think just our
probably youtube, through all ofits data points, can work out
that if we have an interest intech and if we have a shared
interest in tech and a sharedinterest in us wrestling, then
you might be interested in in inlegal eagle.
Now, I know it's like a stretch, but I just think that, given
(42:20):
that this is the lastrecommendation in the second row
I think that's where thedigital word of mouth is it
might be like hey, travis, Iknow you like wrestling and tech
and this Devin guy from Leagueof League just has a really
interesting look on things thatI think you might be interested
in, just like in a casualconversation.
It might be something that weshare.
So if I'm wrong, let me know.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
no, because here's the thing uh, full transparency.
First, I've been using legalgoogle as an example of how to,
how to do pivots on youtube formany years.
Also, one of his uh showrunners, um, I used to work with
on another channel, wasrecently reaching out to me
about working with Devin on somestuff.
So, that aside, I did want toat least put that out there as,
(43:03):
like, hey, I kind of know what'sgoing on with Devin.
But I do want to point outsomething.
I'm actually not surprised it'scoming up for a number of
reasons.
Now, for me personally, like Isaid, there's a lot of reasons
because I've always selected him.
But if you go to his video page, I think you're going to find
this very funny.
Go to his video page and scrolldown to one, two, three, four,
five, six, seven, eight, nine,10.
(43:27):
So you'll see the one abouthoney If you scroll down far
enough, and then two below that,two rows below that one.
Yeah, do you see who's in thatthumbnail?
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Let me look.
So is this what I'm seeing?
So this is from five months ago.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
It's from five months ago.
Oh, five months ago.
So, if you keep scrolling down,you'll see the like we're suing
Honey.
But scroll down below that,like three rows below that, and
you'll see a face in thethumbnail with him which will
answer why.
Maybe tech is somewhat involvedwith this.
I mean, I can explain in otherways too, but you see it.
If not, let me share my screen.
(44:05):
Oh, marcus brownlee yeah, inthat ironic considering marcus
brownlee was on one of was yourtop level, so that means viewers
of mkbhd likely watched thatvideo, gotcha so there's that
thing we've been talking about,where viewers who watch
different thing are beingsuggested.
So legal legal is going to besuggested because some of his
videos I mean he's he he's notjust been there, he's also been
(44:26):
on a lot of other channels, techchannels as well, and his
viewerships are crosspollinating with tech.
So YouTube is testing yousaying, hey, I know other people
who've watched Legal Legal arereally interested in this and
they put it on your homepage.
So this is a literal example ofwhat we've been talking about.
You have something from MKBHDon your main page and he's
worked with MKBHD.
He's talked about MKBHD in oneof his previous videos and
(44:49):
YouTube is now testing to sayyou should check this out, you
might be interested.
Exact example.
I love that example.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Probably didn't even know it was an example at the
time, but no, no, I did.
There's all these unknownconnections and links now.
Travis haven't been talking toeach other about our watching
habits prior to this no this,was this just came up just in
the moment.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yeah, yeah so, but?
Speaker 3 (45:12):
but the thing is like this this is unknown knowledge
until we talk to each other wewouldn't have known this
otherwise.
Yeah, YouTube is listening toall of this by the actions each
viewer takes, and it's able toreally tie, put these strands
together and link potentialinterests for viewers all across
(45:33):
the globe.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
The view is all across the globe.
So what I'm going to challengethe listenership to send an
email to theboostatvidiqcom andtell me how you are going to use
this strategy in an upcomingvideo.
Like who are you looking at,what topics are trending in your
niche and how you want to takeadvantage of knowing how the
algorithm works in this way andhow it's being suggested based
on other things, and how you'regoing to use that in your
(45:55):
upcoming video.
We'll talk about it on some ofthe upcoming episodes Jen and I
are going to do as we're goingback to the studio, which is
kind of fun Nice.
Yeah, we'll answer some of thoseand see what you guys and gals
think over there.
So we greatly appreciate that.
If you're new here, feel freeto hit that subscribe button.
Of course, if you're listeningon the audio podcast, we'd love
for you to leave.
Leave us five star review onapple podcasts or spotify or
(46:15):
wherever you do that sort ofthing anymore.
And, uh, you know, come and, ofcourse, listen to us again, as
we got a lot of hot contentcoming up, ladies and gentlemen.
A lot of that hot content, rob.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Man, is there anything thatyou're working on that you're
kind of excited about for peopleto see?
Speaker 3 (46:35):
so I have a lot of videos that I've filmed waiting
for them to be edited.
I can't think of anythingspecifically right now.
It's been a lot of youtubeupdates that I've had to focus
on recently, yeah, uh, so I'vebeen tied up with them.
But yeah, just usual thingsfrom me.
This might be kind ofinteresting.
Just, this is a little sidething, we're only going to talk
about this for a couple minutes.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
So we do have an editing team.
Yeah, just usual things from me.
This might be kind ofinteresting.
This is a little side thing.
We're only going to talk aboutthis for a couple minutes.
So we do have an editing teampeople who edit some of the
videos for the main channel, butnot every single video you're
in is edited by someone else.
Sometimes you edit your ownstuff.
What is the process that youtake to do that?
Why do you decide sometimes toedit versus having one of our
(47:15):
editors do it?
Speaker 3 (47:17):
All right, this is a good question and it really
delves into the psychology ofmyself as a creator.
I call these Maverick videos orRob's gone rogue.
I think we have a bit of.
We have.
We have this is a bit of aphrase now whereby you know
we're part of a team and a lotof stuff goes through a process.
(47:38):
Yeah, however, when it comes toyoutube update videos, which
are very timely, they need to bereleased, sometimes within 24
hours of the news coming out.
I must admit that I stillsidestep everybody else in the
process, in the team, in thecompany.
(48:02):
Now, not to massage my own ego,but I do think, after being on
vidIQ for a decade and buildingup a channel to where it is, I
have permission and license tosometimes do that.
Permission and license tosometimes do that, but also I do
(48:24):
it because it creativelyfulfills and sustains me.
I call these my happy videosbecause I'm in my best place as
a creator when I can start avideo at like nine, eight, nine
o'clock in the morning and haveit published by 4 pm in the
afternoon.
Yeah, like I hate, I detesttaking videos over to another
day because I just lose my trainof thought, my creativity, the
(48:46):
direction that it's going in.
I don't know if anybodyresonates with that or thinks
I'm absolutely bonkers, that I Ilike to do stuff in a single
day.
So, yeah, just to have that, Iguess, that freedom to make
those videos in a single day,and it allows me to like,
practice my scripting skills andmy editing skills, cause I
(49:07):
don't want to lose that skillbeing in a team and just being,
like you know, a talent, readingan auto cue.
I don't want to fall into thattrap.
So, yeah, that that is a verylong story of why sometimes I
make videos completely by myself, because I still kneel, I still
feel that need of independenceand the agency agency to say you
(49:29):
know what, I'm just going to dosomething like this today and
go and do it, and the audiencereacts to it well, so I think I
have the audience's permissionto do it well, they always
perform well, yeah, so I think Ihave the audience's permission
to do it Well, they alwaysperform well, yeah, yeah, I
think it sounds fun, a fun ideaon the live stream to have a Rob
Goes Rogue moment or cornerLike every five minutes.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
You just every five minutes at the end of one
episode, rob Goes Rogue, and youput on like a heavy metal hat
or something I don't know whatthat would look like and you
just do something weird and justI don't know.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
I could 3D print something.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
yeah, yeah that would be cool.
That would be great.
I think it'd be fun, and if youwant to see more of Rob Kors,
you can check it out on the mainvidIQ channel.
Otherwise, we would love to seeyou back here next week on the
next episode.
See you in the next one.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Tube Talk
brought to you by vidIQ.
Head over to vidIQcom slashTubeTalk for today's show notes
and previous episodes.
Enjoy the rest of your videomaking day.
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