Dr. Sunita Sah Teaches Us How To Say No

Dr. Sunita Sah is a leading expert on decision-making, compliance, and ethical influence. A tenured professor at Cornell University, she has spent decades researching why people struggle to say "no" and how they can reclaim their voice. Her groundbreaking work has been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and The LA Times, shedding light on the hidden costs of compliance and the power of strategic defiance. Before becoming an organizational psychologist, Sunita was a medical doctor, an experience that shaped her insights into authority, trust, and professional ethics. Her new book, Defy: The Power of No in a World that Demands Yes, offers a practical roadmap for standing up against social pressures while staying true to one's values. A sought-after speaker and thought leader, Sunita is passionate about empowering individuals to make better decisions and challenge the status quo with confidence.

In this episode, Dr. Sunita Sah provides expert insight into the psychological and social dynamics of defiance and compliance. She explains that people often feel a deep internal tension when confronted with situations that contradict their values but struggle to act due to societal conditioning, fear of consequences, or reluctance to challenge authority. Sunita shares personal stories about growing up in a strict Indian household, her journey from medical doctor to organizational psychologist, and how her fascination with compliance and influence led her to research this topic. She introduces key concepts from her book, including the "Defiance Compass," a framework for determining when and how to defy, and emphasizes that defiance is a skill that can be learned and practiced over time. She also reassures Ami about her difficult parenting moment, highlighting the importance of assessing safety before acting. Sunita’s research underscores the hidden costs of compliance and how individuals can reclaim their agency by standing up for their values in meaningful ways.

 

• A South Asian Perspective: The Cultural Battle with Defiance: Ami and Sunita bond over their shared South Asian backgrounds, discussing how immigrant upbringings shaped their views on obedience, compliance, and the challenge of saying no. (03:31)
• The Power of a Name: Why Sunita Kept Hers: Sunita shares the story of why she didn’t change her last name after marriage, despite social pressure, and how this small act of defiance can have larger implications. (04:53)
• The Parenting Dilemma: When Should You Defy?: Ami recounts a powerful personal story about an aggressive stranger confronting her daughter at a movie theater. Sunita walks her through the "Defiance Compass" framework to evaluate whether speaking up would have been the right choice. (18:03)
• Why We Comply—Even When We Shouldn’t: Sunita breaks down the five psychological stages of defiance, explaining why we often freeze in the moment and default to compliance (28:02)
• The Hidden Cost of Saying Yes: Ami shares her struggle with ulcerative colitis and how years of suppressing her voice may have contributed to her chronic stress and health issues. Sunita discusses how unchecked compliance can take a physical toll. (34:42)
• Why Women (Especially) Struggle to Say No: Sunita introduces the concept of “insinuation anxiety”—the fear of making someone feel bad by rejecting their request—and why women often feel this pressure more acutely than men. (40:08)
• How to Build the Skill of Defiance: Sunita explains why defiance isn’t just a personality trait but a learned skill, offering actionable advice on how to practice saying no in small, everyday moments. (49:05)
• Success, Oprah, and The Cure: In a lighthearted closing, Sunita shares her definition of success, her dream collaboration (hint: Oprah!), and her love for The Cure—tying back to the importance of being true to oneself. (55:34)

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This podcast is produced by

 Ginni Media