Episode #: 0021 - Tubi.com made the computer crash!

In Whisper Breach, the world is quieted — communications severed — and a single signal becomes the battleground. The director joins us to unpack the production under low-light conditions, the creative use of negative space, and how AI tools were layered into the design—not to replace vision but to amplify ambience. We talk about the burden of silence, how texture and tonal shifts carry emotional weight, and how digital tools can either numb or enliven.

This episode is also a turning point in Season 2. All season, we’ve been peeling back the layers of AI, agency, myth, and control. From episodes on The Forbin Singularity to music video deep dives and digital auteurs like Harmony Korine, we’ve pushed past the default questions about “Is AI good or bad?” Instead, we’ve asked: How do artists use AI? Where does control lie? When is expressivity compromised or liberated?

Season 2 has been an odyssey through glitch, control, cinematic dreams, and the clash between machine logic and human mess. Whisper Breach isn’t just another entry — it’s a quiet crescendo, a moment when everything we’ve been circling finally whispers back.

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
It's Season 2, episode 10, Part 2, the finale.
I can't believe it. You know, they say we're on the
1% now. Most podcasts don't make it past
20 episodes. This is our 21st episode.
They're technically in the 1%. So Congrats y'all.

(00:25):
I knew I was just a disgrace. Podcast host and waiting.
And although we only have our disgraced host Sticky Fish here
with us today, our thoughts and prayers go out to all our canine
friends, whether they're in traction, whether they're
listening to Billy Joel up in heaven where all dogs go, or

(00:47):
they're trapped in a kennel waiting to be free.
Bruno might be absent, We don't know.
But in the meantime, in their standing place, we have a very
special guest with us. Today.
I'd like to take a moment to talk about Whisper Breach.
This is a new film that came outin 2025.

(01:08):
I'll start with the interesting quote about this bold new techno
thriller comes from Elon Musk. With artificial intelligence.
We are summoning the demon and the director Craig Cockerel says
that warning haunts every frame of the film Whisper Breach.
And with no further ado, Sticky Fish and government name would

(01:30):
like to. Welcome to the Tuesday Cinema
Club end of season 2 podcast thedirector of Whisper Breach,
Craig Cockrell. Thank you so much for coming.
Hey, thank you so much for having me.
It's great to be a part of this 21st 1% that made it episode.
Yeah, you're part of the 1. I feel honored it.
Feels good, right? We made it.

(01:50):
It does. We made it and you know, we, I,
I came across this work, WhisperBreach doing a lot of diving on
the Internet about AI and cinemaand I couldn't have found a more
apt film for what we focus on this podcast.
So first time guest. I'm sure you'll come back in the
future, but with this new film that's premiered in Italy and

(02:15):
been playing online. Now you can watch it on services
like Vimeo if you want to streamor buy it, but this is a work
that actually focuses very closeto what we talk about a lot.
I wanted to maybe start with today an essay that I had been
passed kind of focused on specifically what you went

(02:41):
through when you were creating and I I think it was really
interesting Here I've got put itup on the screen for our our
other guests to go, but this idea that AI being manipulative
in power hungry really strikes aresonance with us.
I. Think yeah, I mean, it's I it's
some, it's something that I was thinking about today.

(03:03):
You know, I was listening to some of your some of your other
episodes and I'm like, what? And then you asked me to watch a
film and I picked Dex Machina and I'm, I'm like, what is it
about these, that these evil AI,you know, antagonists?
And it's, it really has a lot todo with manipulation.
And I think, I think that's the kind of a keyword of, you know,
where the danger might lie. I think the opening of Ex

(03:28):
Mahina, I got chills when I saw it in theaters.
When he wins the award, it's just such a relatable.
Everyone wants to be Charlie in the Chocolate Factory and and in
the this century, as opposed to the last, as opposed to going to
a Chocolate Factory, goes to oneman's private compound, right
where is everyone looks in and Charlie's Chocolate Factory and

(03:50):
sees the wonders coming out of it.
He's like shipped off to this desolate nowhere where we have
to kind of keep these secrets. And I think AI is filled with
this kind of mentality of these secrets that are not to be
shared and and you don't have access to.
And in fact, you shouldn't even know that it's being secretive.

(04:10):
What do I mean by that? So, you know, a lot of
artificial intelligence is just hallucination, right?
The inability to repeat over andover really falls into this
place where we as individuals believe we have a grasp on a
solid reality. We believe that we know what's
happening. We know the sun rises in the
West. But you know, it just takes like

(04:31):
the failure of orbit for all thesudden the sun no longer going
to be there. We depend on a reality to
continue in order for us our, our understanding of reality to
be aligned or actual. But AI is creating a new
reality, right? We talked about deep fakes,
right? All of a sudden someone could be
tricked, manipulated into a way where they've seen someone tell

(04:52):
them to do something and it's real to them.
Just like the sun rising and theWest is real to them if we're in
a different orbit. I also think that I really
enjoyed you talking about being on a stage in Italy and I wanted
us to maybe go back there and talk a little bit about there's
this superficial understanding of an artificial intelligence,

(05:15):
right? People call lots of things
artificial intelligence. But right now, right on our path
to what they call AGI, right you, you, you bring up this term
ANI and ASI, right. These these forms of
intelligence that are narrow anda narrow intelligence presented
by an AI probably a lot smarter than your average Dogwood

(05:37):
neighbor. You know, someone who's maybe
just like gets off the construction site, slams a
couple of beers and has three kids.
They don't got time. They don't have the energy to
consider a different reality or experience it.
We'll just take what the AI toldthem.
I mean, they've been doing it for the TV for the last couple
generations. Sticky, help me out.
What do you think? Yeah, I think it's a really

(06:01):
interesting kind of case study of language, right?
Like you have all this corporatekind of structure that's being
applied to a word. Like it's it's it's actually one
of the most like successful, like Co opting of a word.
That's, that's like I've seen in, in recent, in recent memory,

(06:24):
because like the idea of AI is, is really entrenched for, I
mean, decades in, in American pop culture.
Like you have a lot of sci-fi stories that involve AI,
computers, robots, like all these words are kind of
synonymous. And, and it always the, the

(06:46):
image that invokes in people like both through their
experience in media and, you know, just general, general,
kind of like the cultural zeitgeist.
Like when you say IAI to somebody, you think of an
artificial human, you think of something that has a brain that
usually doesn't, it doesn't match humans.

(07:07):
It surpasses it. It's usually better in a lot of
fiction and media, and we see that now.
You know, in 2022, we just took all of that cultural baggage,
all of that, you know, kind of people, people's awareness of
that word and we applied it to something that is definitively

(07:28):
not that, right? There's there's no, no one, if
you would have taken somebody even up to like 2018, all
through the early 2000s, in the 90s, eighties, fifties, 60s,
wherever you go back into America and you said, tell me
what AI tell me what AI is. And someone said it was a bunch

(07:48):
of people trying to like prompt act 7 second video clips, right?
No one would have said that. Not a single person would have
said that's the AI future, right.
So I think the Co opting of the word to try to sell it, like
everyone knows what AI means andit sounds so good.
It's such a big lofty promise. And I see it as like fueling

(08:11):
that the hype train, the AI hypetrain is just massive because
they've Co opted a word that that that is just it's just not
true with what they have. The product they have is not
that. And I think that's like that's
like one of the most interestingthings about this whole like,
you know, ecosystem that's developed.

(08:34):
I think what's interesting aboutit is, is that it's, it's kind
of like a tangible thing. This, this fictionalized idea
that you guys are talking about,which is something that's been
around for years. It, it's for the first time ever
on a, you know, consumer level, this is like a tangible thing.
And you're right, it's not what,what, you know, fiction has made

(08:54):
it out to be. And what I was what and when I
was on that panel in Italy, whatI was trying to say in the essay
is, you know, I think we're at the infancy, you know, like or
even conception, you know, the baby's not have been born yet.
So I think we have to think about that because I too am on,
you know, I'm using ChatGPT as my sort of go to.

(09:15):
I use it all the time and it's like it kills me the
hallucinations and you know, just you, you're just like, how
can this thing be so lame, you know, for all the tech that goes
into it? But I just think we have to be
cognizant of we're in the, you know, the narrow intelligence
thing, you know, period right now where yes, it may be smarter

(09:36):
than your guy pounding beers on,you know, but it excels it, it
surpasses human intelligence in a lot of ways.
And we're not even anywhere close to like artificial general
intelligence or, you know, superintelligence.
So, you know, where is it going to go?
It's more what I was trying to bring up.
Like, I'm not too worried about it right now, but should it?

(09:59):
Is it something we should be worried about down the line?
I. Think yeah, you're is going to
be a motivator. Go for it.
Stick. I definitely think that's,
that's what everyone's selling right now, right?
Everyone is selling the promise because that's what everyone
would want. Obviously everyone wants a
generalized intelligence right to do to do their bidding to

(10:20):
make everything all these medialtasks easier, that kind of
thing. And yeah, we are definitely in
in the infancy stages and. Like you're saying
itslikethe.com bubble there. It's the hype is insane.
The amount of money getting poured into it is insane.
And obviously it's not, you know, not quite there yet.

(10:41):
And as it it is doing some pretty amazing things, but it
has a long way to go as well. I.
I don't know. I think like the amazing things
I've seen are maybe over hyped in their complexity and kind of
show how tenuous our grasp on reality is.
I think like the idea of intelligence isn't a tangible

(11:02):
one, right? Like we have all these different
forms of testing, but they'll tell you testing doesn't capture
all forms of intelligence, right?
That just tells you that this person has studied the material.
What we've created is like really good question answer bots
that are able to cite sources, which is like fine for being a
reference, but I think the dreamis missing, right?

(11:25):
The ability to create is missing.
And that's something that can't be undersold enough.
And if it's important, because Ithink the dreamers are the ones
that shape the cognizant realitythat much of us experience,
right? The superstructure that keeps
everyone waking up and, and it doesn't keep the Earth in orbit,
but it makes people fall in linewith the cycle.

(11:48):
I, I think it's something that isn't inherent, right?
Like there's a gestalt happening, so to speak, a
superstructure that I believe inthat kind of keeps like ethics
localized to this Earth, applying at least to your local
neighborhood, if not county, state, nation, planet, right?
There's some things globally we've decided as a species.

(12:10):
And last week we talked on this subject, this like morphic
phasing, where ideas become present across culture.
One of the examples given was when a certain identity of a
trail amongst a pack of wolves is learned by a certain
percentage of that Wolf Pack, even wolves far from the trail
who have never known it will somehow become attuned to it and

(12:32):
aware of its existence. And I think in this way, like AI
as we call it today, this narrowAI that's being presented by for
profit companies is actually like entrenching a form of
reality for many, right? And and this is like the, the,
the form of bread and circus that keeps the the people from

(12:53):
vaulting. Like at any point Rome could
have fallen. Why did it fall then, right?
At any point this AI is going tobe found out for it's just
telling us what we think we needto hear.
Because, OK, if you don't know the answer and you go to AI and
you trust the response, do you really know that that's the
correct answer? And and it's and.
It's often wrong. Yeah, so then at some point it

(13:14):
becomes the stand in of books, right?
People don't read anymore. They barely prompt.
They just use a series of guttural sounds to prompt the AI
into here's an echo Chamber of what works.
But like, how many life did death decisions is AI being put
in charge of today? Very few, right?
No one, no one would trust to dothat.
But I think as it grows, the wayin which those decisions will

(13:36):
affect life will become more obvious, right When we start
saying, OK, let's use AI to findout who gets to work.
It doesn't work. Well, you know, in this nation,
if you don't have a job, I, I don't think that you get to
live, right? That that's kind of like a
defining characteristic. If you get fired at capitalist
America, your life ends, so to speak, until you find a new job

(13:57):
and then it begins anew. And this way that now we have,
for example, AI generated resumes being fed into an AI
generated HR readers, there isn't really a humanity there
anymore. We've kind of lost it.
So yeah, I really do think Whisper Breach was was really

(14:19):
coming into what we like to talkabout here.
But another thing we like to talk about before we go on.
And actually I want to just see if this code works.
Let's see if the code works. Go for the code, yeah.
Give it a try. No, I'll try the full link.
Honestly man, that link you sentme, it came through in a funny
way, I'm not going to lie. Let's see if it's just this.

(14:40):
Yeah, but that's that's it. And then the should, the link
should take you there. But it's funny for me to do
this, I have to like go through and take all my history out
because I launched me in automatically.
So it's a pain for me to to cycle through everything and try
to test these. But the last batch I tested I
was not having any luck with andI kind of gave up on it.
Yeah, unfortunately we're in that same boat.

(15:03):
No worries though, I do like to play a game with our guests.
If you don't have time to have alittle fun of a game, this is
one we like to call slop or hot.So we'll go ahead and pause the
music here and we'll turn on the1st.
Is this slop or is this not? So do you think that this is AI

(15:27):
generated this new A? This looks like a an official
Eminem video. I don't think I can comment on
this. I'm not up to date on the shady
verse lore. I.
Would say. Hot, not slop.

(15:52):
You're saying this is an AI? Not slop.
This looks very much like AI to me.
Pretty clearly AI, in fact. Many, many, many tells it's
clean. I think last week we talked
about how some of these rappers get private models, right.
Snoop Dogg got a private model. All right.

(16:12):
What about this one? We'll start easier.
Yeah, thanks. I like this one.
This is this is Slop. Yeah, I.
Appreciate that. The dog got.
Stomped on there, did you see that?
He's only got 7 toes instead of I.
Think no, this is just the new Final Destination movie, right?

(16:34):
I've heard this one. A small hug of great strength,
animal lovers. That's beautiful.
I haven't. Actually seen this video.
It's. Going to make millions.
I don't know millions. Let's check to see what other

(16:54):
kind of content this person putsout.
Is it just 24/7 slop? I can't tell on that.
That looks real. I think I shared this one.
This to me anyway. Well let's keep going down.
I got a curated list here. OK.
Slop or AI? Is this slop or hot?
Is this AI or not? I would say hot.

(17:22):
Yeah, I think on this one, this is really from Worldstarhiphop.
I don't know if like the live stream from Hell Texas in there,
but that's like clearly you could see like the bad.
Yeah, he masked it. Oh.
No, they yeah, they've been, they've been cut out, but I feel
like the photo is real. Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I agree with you on that.
All right, here we go. Look who's talking to to 2025.

(17:42):
The kids are still grown up, butthey have something to say.
Yeah, that looks that looks hot to me.
Oh man, I hate to tell you, thisto me is very clear.
This is very. Clearly, you know what, you know
why this is, you know why this is hard is because the digital D
aging in Hollywood is so hot right now.

(18:06):
You know I'm saying like John, like you can see a real movie
where John Travolta's face will look like this, right?
I mean, I can do that and I can take a real photo and do that in
Photoshop in like 10 seconds, you know?
Yeah, yeah. That's what this is.
I mean, yeah. So it's like it.
Is an AI plugin, but it's not like he's AI generated is is my
thought. We definitely play this game a

(18:27):
lot. A photo with him holding a baby.
And another thing we we talk about a lot is where the
distinction lies between AI and special effects.
You know, like, yeah, how how much can you generate before you
can say like, you know, how muchcan can if I do a whole movie
where, you know, an actor's faceis completely digital for the

(18:49):
entire movie, you know, am I going to win?
Am I going to win an award? You know, like Benjamin Button
that was that's like, I think touted is like the best, you
know, movie that had a lot of that kind of facial de.
Aging, yeah. Yeah.
And like, I feel like it's the best example where the movie's
actually decent and uses it for like, a purpose.

(19:11):
Like a lot of the times you justget like old men stomping people
on the street when they're like 95, you know, Like, what are the
what? Are the contest rules?
Like are you saying that he thisis not based on an actual photo
or it's just an actual photo that's been manipulated?
Honestly, or. It's generated 100% from AII.
Want to let you know there's no score and it only counts if

(19:33):
you're having fun. And it's more just the concept
of like, OK, so let's just say this is a deep fake.
Then is it a deep fake of is that a real baby?
I think all of these people are computer generated.
This is deep fake of John Travolta.
That is my genuine belief. OK, I don't think you could find
this image somewhere else. It's one that was drawn by a
computer. That's so that's the difference,

(19:56):
right? The difference is on this one,
before there's a photo from their stream, they did some
Photoshop. Yeah, cut them out.
Put a background in. This one there's no a. 100% AI
generated is what you're saying.There's no lines here, right?
The last one, Worldstar had to cut some lines here.
It's there. The lighting's off.
Lighting's perfect on all of these things, right?

(20:16):
These it's it's flat, it's staged.
Let's go to this one. This one's I.
And unfortunately, because it's the end of season 2 and I know
you've never played, we, I made it very hard this week.
Cash, money, records. It's all love.
Oh, I'm going to say hot. Sticky.

(20:37):
I don't I don't see it's been solong as I've seen a picture of
Lil Wayne like I don't now if I was more in tune, I think I
could do some some analysis on his tattoos to see if I could
match his tattoos. I don't know if those are his
tattoos or not. Like that's that would be my
tell. I'm going to guess that that's

(20:57):
that that's not him. You don't think I think I think
that he doesn't look exactly like that right now in 2025.
It was from his birthday. Cash money is his record.
I think that's how he looks right now.
Dang. I needed, I needed the, I needed
to match the the tattoos I thinkwould have been the easiest

(21:19):
thing to do. All right, teaser trailer for
Kung Fu Panda the movie live action 2025.
How is this live action? I Disney can call whatever they
want. You know Disney started this
right when they said it was the live action remakes of like The
Lion King and stuff where it's 100% CG Like I anything can be

(21:39):
anything now. So slopper hot.
I don't think this exists. No, gotta be slob, right I.
Couldn't agree more. All right, EastEnders spiked.
BBC Presents. I mean that looks like AI.

(22:02):
Think that's hot. Legit photo to me.
I think it looks real too. I mean, I don't have these
answers. There's no answer key given to
me. This is just content I found
today, right? I go out, I find content.
I put it on the feed so we couldlook at it during the show.
I don't even know what spiked isor EastEnders.
I just thought it was a crazy photo here.

(22:23):
I I just kind of think in general, it's like.
I think I think this is real. How about this one?
That's real, that's hot. That's a set for some set photo
from. What is that from?

(22:45):
It says it's from Thriller. I feel like AI can generate
these types of Polaroid imagery,though I've never seen it
before. Yeah, I'm sure they could.
I think I feel like this is thisis real.
I feel like why would his hand be blurred?

(23:06):
Like I don't think, I don't feellike that would be an artifact
that AI would do right there. He was really moving his hand.
I think so like. And that's a that's a good
catch. About Luca too, the sky is
calling. That's, I mean obviously that's

(23:28):
generated. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
From something. Luca was a unsuccessful Pixar
movie. How about this one?
Bad guys too? I don't even think Disney made.
I don't think Disney made the bad guys, which is kind of
funny, right? Yeah, I always.
Like when like you can tell thatlike, you know, like that fox is

(23:52):
close enough to the Zootopia foxand then the the shark is like
close enough to like, you know, like a Finding Nemo shark.
Like you can, you can almost tell where it's getting the
training data from, you know? Damn.
It why they took away this content.
Those bastards. Sonic the Hedgerhog 4.

(24:14):
Hedge your your bets. All right, here's the This is a
tough one because he's known to be using AI right now.
Is this Will Smith? And did Will Smith, Yeah.
I would say slop. For his birthday?

(24:35):
I don't know. Couldn't tell you.
I think it's real just because Iknow he's on a European Tour
because I'm just following a lotof Will Smith's career closely
right now because he's doing stuff with AII.
Don't know. I don't know much about Hip
Hopville. Let's see what else they share
over there and see if they sharelots of AI content. 2.2 million
followers. It seems like all the standard

(24:58):
photos that you would take at the Leaning Tower, you know?
Yeah, it's definitely and I would draw.
From. All right, how about those
Croods 3? I also don't think Disney made
the Croods. Did Disney make Croods?
Croods. What?
And two, I don't think so. Yeah.

(25:20):
Like you could see here too, like, right.
Like you could see like the the blue hair chick kind of looks
like something that would be outof like inside out.
Yeah, 100% looks good. Kind of.
And like you can just, you know,there's like.
Face is the same face like 3 times.
What the hell is going on with these pterodactyls?
The. Sky, that's how they look.
Yeah, all right, how about this one?

(25:44):
And this will end here. Dream to watch a movie in 70mm
IMAX? Looks.
I'd say hot. Do you think it'll be harder to
play this game in the future or easier?
Got it. Just get harder, right?
Harder and harder. I couldn't agree more.
Impossible, right? It'll be impossible.

(26:04):
I mean, it's, it's just every time they release a new one, it
seems like it's a little better.I saw that one today, so I know
that one's that was a real one. I really saw that somewhere.
Yeah, the crude 3. Is this the real crude?
I mean look at the background, it just.
Was the crude a successful franchise?

(26:27):
Like how much did they make any money?
Like. I don't know.
Let me look it up, all right? How about this?
Real or fake? That's that's slop.
Yeah, she's Tilly Norwood. Fresh, Fresh.
Freshly distilled. Slop Yeah, she I asked her to
get on the show. Her handler wouldn't reply
because. She's still looking for an

(26:50):
agent. Yeah.
Oh, the. This is a a Nick Cage vehicle,
The Croods starring Nick Cage, you know.
Is it Nickelodeon who made it? I don't think Disney made it.
Let's see who made this. Animation probably.
Yeah, Which, yeah, Fox Animationis it?
It's DreamWorks. Yeah, it's DreamWorks.

(27:10):
Technically. Yeah, so technically under the
umbrella, but. Anyway, you get the idea here,
right? Yeah.
This this is kind of becoming omnipresent in our culture,
right? Because if I go and look up
something like movie Beat 12,000followers, these pages got
millions of followers. If I were to jump back, let's

(27:33):
just say one year, how much AI content do you think they were
sharing? Let's say none, yeah.
It's gonna be yeah, the little done and it and it wasn't, it
wasn't easy to generate. You know, it's it's just gets
easier and easier. It it, it gets easier and easier
to the point where like you knowthis digital creator with 10,000
followers. I wish I had 10,000 followers is

(27:55):
just. Right.
No, you're just talking about pervasiveness.
Right. So like and then what if we go
to the comments section on some of this content, what does it
have to say? No comments.
Why doesn't like? OK, so it's it's this thing

(28:16):
where like they're telling us it's going to become
omnipresent. It's good warm horses.
But no one seems to really like it.
No one's commenting on it. And we've fallen down this trap
before where you see these big followings and these big like
user bases. But then how many hero in the
flood videos? Like there's so many animals

(28:37):
saved in the flood. It was it was hot one time and
now we make a lot of them. It's does anyone need to see
viral animal rescue? If I click the hashtag Animal
Rescue, how much of this will beAII?
Just can't tell. Anymore I give that's they could
so much of that could go either way.

(28:57):
So like, what about this when people start selling like AI
mutts, right? Like you have these photos of
these purebred dogs and then yougo and you get it and it's not
that dog. We get to turn that dog away.
You, you already gave him a deposit.
You've seen the dog even you even did a live stream with the

(29:18):
dog. It was AI generated and then you
get the dog and they're like what do you mean it doesn't look
like your dog? Well, in my you saw the photo
in. My mind's eye.
The dog was different. Crazy.
Crazy to think that all of this will soon be AI generated for
the better. Let's get out of here.

(29:40):
Let's get off social media. Let's go back to the reality of
things. I want to spend a little bit of
time, maybe talk about where Whisper Breach came from.
Right. If you if you wanted to talk
about how that idea came out, were you the writer and director
for this film as well? Or did.
Yeah. I was, yeah.

(30:00):
So, yeah, yeah. Maybe talk us through the
production, when did you start and how that went for you and
and where these ideas came from?Yeah, I started because my
background is in camera operating and I do some steady
Cam camera operating on shows and underwater work.
And we had a big strike in LA in2023 and was just sitting around

(30:23):
twiddling my thumbs. And you know, when you, when you
go to film school and you get into the film business, it's
kind of like a bucket less dreamthing to make a movie.
So, but now is the time because I, I usually stay busy enough
that that's not not ever going to happen.
So I, I just jumped on writing and I was trying to come up with
something that might be, you know, culturally relevant so

(30:47):
that it did a little bit of its own marketing because, you know,
that end of stuff I don't know anything about.
And that's sort of how AI came into play.
And there were a couple stories going on that summer.
One was, I don't know if you guys recall, Do you recall the
guy that was the engineer at Google who got fired for

(31:07):
releasing a transcript of his interview with Landa, which was
Google's older original large language model?
I thought it got in trouble because it was turned out to be
fake like like he he exaggeratedand edited.
I do remember. I don't know that he did any of

(31:27):
that. I think they were trying to say
he was, you know, there's a lot of like different spins that
they were. I think he basically got fired
because he violated his NDA, which was that he wouldn't make
any of that stuff public. And, and, but if you read the,
if you read the transcript, it is, it is pretty interesting.
And that had a lot to do with, with, you know, that that

(31:52):
particular model claiming that it was sentient and had feelings
and things like that. So that was part of kind of what
drove my story. And another another was a trying
to remember names Karen something she was like a
Snapchat, you know, YouTube starwith a huge following, cute

(32:13):
young girl. And she took all her YouTube
videos and turned them into a chat bot, like a date bot and
charged a dollar a minute. And and that that particular bot
got, you know, I guess went, youknow, lean and sort of like the
more adults. It was supposed to be a friend,

(32:33):
you know, like your friend, you're paying to have a friend,
but it turned into something that was a little more, you
know, X-rated pretty quickly andit was on all the news channels
and everyone was making fun of it.
But those ideas of, of having a,having a chat bot based on
somebody's videos and in their, you know, in their likeness,

(32:55):
along with the Blake Lamont story is kind of what drove the,
the idea for whisper Breach. And also my this the whole take
on like the, the drama going on with the open AI and Elon Musk
fighting for control and open AIgetting all the venture capital
money and, you know, trying to convert from a non profit to a

(33:18):
profit to take advantage of someof their VC offers.
And it just, it's just such a big drama that has steeped in so
much money that and I just find it so over the top ridiculous
that I kind of wanted to incorporate some of that into
the story as well. I think I read this really

(33:41):
interesting. It's probably like a 18,000
word. You could have just call it like
a, a manifesto by a tech writer on their personal blog where
they, they basically talked about the coming bubble.
And I think, you know, the most interesting takeaways from that
were just the how there isn't enough capital in existence to

(34:05):
create the infrastructure that'srequired to produce what they're
saying they're going to do. So for example, they talk about
they're going to build all thesedata centers and the cost to
build the data center is greaterthan the capital that exists.
But then I was reading another article today from the CEO of

(34:26):
Ford and he's talking about you don't have enough.
And we call it unskilled labour,but we don't have enough
plumbers, ACH, vac builders thatare going to be required to
build the housing of your data centre.
Those things you can't just makea workforce appear.
You can't just drain a workforceto appear.

(34:48):
So this bubble is never felt more real because they're
fundamentally saying we're goingto do so much with this.
We're going to build, let's justsay one data center.
And let's say we, a data center cost $1.00.
Bitch, there's only $0.50 in theworld.
Oh, it's going to cost 100 workers to build this data
center. Bitch, there's only 25 free

(35:10):
workers and they're all retired.You, you're going to, you're
going to make a new generation of data center builders.
Go out to where? Rural Idaho.
Rural where? Well, have you even dove into
the the whole energy aspect of it and how much energy we don't
have that it needs? You know, like that's another
thing ever that has to be built.So the grid that you're talking

(35:30):
about is something we do like tothink about and discuss, right,
Because China's already said they've, they've already
infiltrated our grid. At any point they could flip
that switch that they claim to have.
I don't think it's just a like alike a fake kind of sword wave.
I, I genuinely believe our infrastructure has been
compromised based on my understanding of it.

(35:50):
And I think it's so the only reason they have it is not a
fear that we'll just like blow up a couple dams in return.
Like it, it, it's that kind of thing where you got to remember
this stuff does happen from timeto time and it's been tested,
right? There was like those in
Tennessee, they had a a couple like just massive power outages
couple years ago. They couldn't get gas on the

(36:12):
East Coast, right? Those are just tests.
Those are just basic tests. So like, yeah, not only can our
grid not support this, but we can't catch up.
Like we literally can't catch up.
Even if we were trying to do it right now, it just wouldn't
catch up. And so it feels like a bubble.
So what we're getting out of thebubble is stuff like this,

(36:34):
right? These like, I mean, this is this
is the old Sora meme, or maybe it's the Sora 2 stuff that we're
seeing a lot of right now. We're like all the same videos
getting generated over and over.And if you just think about it
has like a a cost. Each one of these has the cost.
It's like it's someone drawing apicture of Pikachu will never
have the same environmental impact.

(36:55):
Even if you went out and bought the nicest pen and nicest paper
and did it in the nicest building, someone slop posting
off their phone is going to havea huge impact in a way that like
a typical artist, like Bad Time never had.
I also think it's interesting because these companies aren't
turning profit right now, right?You brought up money.

(37:16):
So Claude, right, Anthropic's big model, they're talking about
how people pay, I think let's say $200 a month, right, to have
access to their tokens. Well, they found a way to show
how much cost it is per prompt and what it does in terms of
cost for the company to do that.So you spend a fixed amount of
$200. They have users in Chinese forum

(37:38):
saying, like, look at this, I just cost this American company
$50,000 this month with my prompts.
It's a game to them, right? It's literally a game to make us
lose. And what are we getting in this
race to the bottom? It's it's truly slop.
Yeah, you got all these great videos and the novelty is
wearing off pretty quickly on these as well.

(37:59):
Yeah, but The thing is this likeI could tell you who made
Jurassic Park. I could even tell you like who
keyboard cat is even these like viral meme things.
Even if one was as big as the the kid did Yodelin in Walmart.
Who do you attribute it to? Like that's where Tilly, what's
her name, comes in, who Hollywood hates, which is also

(38:22):
just a surreal, like, let's generate a teenage white actor.
That's what we need, right? Very telling.
True, yeah, I, I, I totally agree with you on on a lot of
these points. I, I, I'm not sure that it's a
bubble that's going to end. They may run into some serious

(38:45):
logistical problems, but I feel like it is something that will
continue in some capacity. Not necessarily, you know, for
our industry, it's for me in ourindustry, it seems like it's a
big ask. You know, like, like we're
talking about the energy and everything that it requires and
we're looking at how bad these 7second videos are.

(39:07):
And if you ask, you know, it right now because of the billion
parameter limits that they have and whatnot, it, it just can't
compute more than like, you know, if you ask it to do
something that's like more than 1000 lines, it, it can't do it
even if you're paying like I signed up for the $200, you
know, pro level thing. It just, it just melts it down.

(39:31):
So, and that's not very complex.So you know, at what point is
this thing going to be able to generate an entire movie of
quality that people are going towant to watch?
And I don't I personally don't see it happening anytime soon.
Quality is a relative term, right?
What What is slop to some might be hot to others, but I also

(39:53):
think that the industry itself where, where is AI getting used
right now? Most certainly in my mind, anime
studios 100% are using AI no problems, no qualms, right one,
their audience doesn't care. No offense to the anime heads
out there, but like it is a cinematic art form, but it is
one where there's a lot of corner cutting even in some of

(40:15):
the biggest Miyazaki films, right?
They they got a still person on screen.
They're just animating his mouthright?
It's it's an animation trick. They do that because it's
expensive to animate. What was the last Demon Train
movie, right? It it made how much money and
what was the budget? Compare that to PT Anderson's
latest film. Even though it's being heralded
as great cinema, even though it might get Oscar noms, even

(40:38):
though it's got Leo in it, it cost it's opening weekend is
less than the you know what was pulled in on a single day or the
demon train. And I think like a a third of
its budget, maybe even 1/4 of its budget is twice what they

(40:59):
spent on making that anime. So I I think like in this way,
you know, anime is going to be almost all AI in the future, if
it isn't already. And special effects houses are
already using AI, right? Why would you, if you already
have these big computers, if youalready have like who already
had the data centers? Like the Pixar already had a
data center. They were able to train these

(41:20):
models, right? In fact, some of this stuff
might be leased out into like they have to build these data
centers, but in the meantime, they might be using other
people's, like what is Pixar's data center doing in the
meantime? Yeah, I'm super curious about
that whole thing, you know, which is another world.
Like I'm wondering when you get past this sort of like consumer
approach from consumer level andup to that level, like what is

(41:44):
going on? I'd be.
I would love to know. Yeah, we, we look at it in a lot
of ways. You know, some celebrities
already have personalized models, right?
If you tried the deepfake Snoop Dogg on Sora, it would say no
can do Buckaroo, you're not allowed to do that.
But if you sign in as part of the, you know, what is that
Doggy House Entertainment or whatever his his company is,

(42:09):
they say, sure, absolutely you you pay for that and you have
access to it. And I think there's like a lot
of studios out there who would love to be like, well, they
already sold the rights away. I read somewhere when I was
scrolling for content today, someone had commented this
reminds me of a story that they wanted to write about in the
future. AI is really taking over cinema,

(42:30):
but it's cinemas failing. Almost all actors are AI except
for one guy refused to sell his likeness.
Just an old man and they want his likeness and AI so they
could make movies because his films are doing so well but the
reason his films are doing well is because it's a human doing
and it's like one of the last things and so Hollywood does
everything to get it They they play drugs on them they try to

(42:51):
set them up with an underage. They do all these things and
eventually submits, but in the end, you know the movies that
are AI generated bomb right and people don't like it.
I think it, it's this idea, right, where if you're a movie
studio and producer, as much as you say you care about the art,
there's a budget that you care about.

(43:12):
And I mean, it's why you don't get a nice fleece on a bad movie
for the rap gift, right? You just don't get the money for
it, right? It's just, it's not how the
world works. And so any chance they're going
to skip a corner or skip a cost of buying people the fleece, I
think that stuff is going to be what drives the art form more.

(43:35):
And going back to the anime heads where like they're using
anime or AI to generate anime. It's at some point like the
audience has shifted. I don't think a lot of people
even watch movies anymore, right?
If you compare it to how many people are watching movies in
the 80s and 90s versus the last 20 years, you'd probably see
that it's very much less. Even with all the streaming

(43:56):
services I think there's more content consumed, but I don't
think the classical form of a 2 hour hour plus movie is being
enjoyed in the same way anymore.Yeah, I'd agree with you because
I I it's always my go to. I'd much rather watch a movie
and sit down and like have a beginning and an ending and, you
know, like an experience then. And I, you know, I do TVI love

(44:18):
there's some great shows out there, but that would not be my
go to if I'm going to pick something to watch it on humane.
But I think I'm I'm in a very small minority.
Yeah, I feel it's definitely like it's own cohort of people.
I feel like I've been going to the movies with the the same
group of 2 to 300 people since, you know, I was a teenager in

(44:42):
high school. You'd go to, we would go to, you
know, Friday night, Thursday night releases, midnight
releases and we just went to thenew PTA release and everyone
there was basically my age, right?
It was the same. Us.
It was us. Yeah, it was literally just me,

(45:03):
right? It's the same group of people.
And every year, every year, it just gets older, one year older,
right? I don't see a group of 20% of
the audience being 18 year olds,25 year olds, you know, they're
all, they're all just my age. Exactly.
And people. Asking people, does anyone here
underage? He was looking for them.

(45:24):
Now it's. Good.
I was looking very. Intently.
Well, did you, did you go to, did you go to weapons?
That's the one I've been at recently where there's a lot of
younger people in there. Horror films do.
Which was, which was kind of, yeah, it was, it was of it's
completely different viewing experience.
Right, I feel like they're the horror movies are have always
been their own subgenre. Like they like, you know,

(45:47):
there's no so where where's the the comedy shutter, right.
Where's the the mystery shutter?There's only one, you know,
genre specific loom. House There's many horror
streets. Yeah, there's many, there's so
many services just for that. Like I feel like unless you're
talking about the latest, like you say Disney or animated Pixar

(46:09):
release, like that's going to get parents, you know, people
who again, are my age who are now bringing their children, but
is that going to convert those children into moviegoers?
Like I, no way. I, I just don't, I feel like
it's just an art form that exists for an older audience now
and. They're trying everything right

(46:30):
now at the fall, at the very endof cinema, right?
Think about the yeah, Minecraft movie came out this year, right?
Or was that last year? Yeah, that was earlier this
year. Yeah.
It's probably like March or something.
Do you remember how they just, like kids destroy the movie
theater because they needed the money?
They just let them? Yeah.
I mean they. They just like none of those,

(46:51):
none of those kids will ever like how many more movies are
they going to see in the rest oftheir life?
5-10 maybe. You know, it was like it was an
event, it was a thing and they allowed, like you said, they
allowed them to. You know how much?
How much money did they actuallynet jockey?
Moment at weapons right? People like how much?
Money did they net after you take the cleaning bill and the

(47:12):
repair costs, You know, like diddid the theaters come out ahead
Like no, the theaters are. Are losing money yes, but
they're they're to sell food, right So yeah, yeah, they, they
sold a lot of popcorn. Can cleaned up a lot of popcorn.
So yeah, we're coming down to the last 10 minutes here.

(47:35):
This week was especially. It's the start of the end of the
second season, but tomorrow we're starting the a very
special third season when we'll be doing 31 screenings of horror
movies for the month of October.I don't know how I'm going to do
it. I love that idea.
Awesome. But before we end, we typically

(47:56):
like to go to the wheel. You can tell I'm behind because
I didn't update the title on thewheel, but this is the wheel of
cinema that we keep usually for guests, and we let guests add to
the wheel and we have some movies that the hosts add on
there. So we take stuff off that's been

(48:18):
on there behind enemy lines. I'm going to take off because
he's not here right now. You know, if Meteor Comet was
here, Poodle Skirt Twister wouldbe in here, but he's not Green
Room. We've already watched.
So really we're coming down to the end of the season.
It's just a few options. We of course can add Whisper
Breech. Unfortunately a lot of the times

(48:41):
we rent these movies out from the library.
So I have the edge, escape plan and enemy the state all checked
out. Water world is at 1%.
If we watch it the the podcast ends.
So if it ever if the wheel ever lands on that it's the end of
the podcast. We can add whisper breach.
But I do want to say I don't think I could check it out from
the local library and it was having difficulties with the

(49:04):
access code. So my fear is if we add it on
there and it lands. Won't be able to see it.
Well, I just have to spend the money, which isn't a big deal.
We love supporting local creators.
I just, I had my wallet's downstairs and that does.
Copy, copy that. But yeah, before.
We go, what I'll do? Is I'll it is on it is on it is

(49:27):
on Amazon and Apple as well. And it should have been on Tubi
today. They they had 930 releasing a
bunch today and tomorrow. So maybe they meant to put 10/1
so when I checked it wasn't there.
Esterds what was it like that's.Where it goes in the low budget
world. And it's printing buddy I was.

(49:49):
Completely unaware of it? Completely No.
Yeah, I mean like I think if youcan get 10,000 clips by putting
cruise three AI generated flop on your website, like you know,
why not? Who would?
Stop you. I mean I I.
No, like, yeah, I don't think it's, it's probably just too

(50:13):
much of it now for them to, to, I remember getting a, you know,
I had like a Fever Corporation song on my reels and I got like
a thing from Vimeo saying, oh, you got to take this off.
And I'm like, OK, so they have something coming through, but I
it's just probably way, that was5-6 years ago.
This is way too prevalent. There's no way they can keep up
with it. I mean, we just saw today,
right, The the opt out, you know, you get to use your

(50:36):
stolen, yeah, yeah, we get to use your stolen IP unless you
officially come by and opt out. Like that's, that's a crazy.
Like considering the landscape of like digital rights media,
you know, management like over the last 20 years, like that's
crazy. Yeah, no, there's a lot to it.
I mean, but I was, I was listening to a podcast when I

(50:58):
started making this film to try to get my head around, you know,
like, you know, what other indiefilm makers were doing for no
money. And there was these two guys
that they, they made a pretty low budget film and it was
pretty successful. And they were so angry that it
was on the dark web like the dayit got released, so angry.
And that their second film, theywere trying to do some sort of

(51:18):
like payment upfront so they could just release it for free.
And, you know, like this is justa reality of where we're at.
You know, it's like these thingsare going to happen that there's
there is going to be, you know, piracy's been around for a long
time and now you've got all these, you know, look at all the
lawsuits with mid journey. And but I think it's sort of

(51:39):
getting sued. I'm not sure.
But you know, because they were licensing, they were basically
creating all the Disney characters, all the Star Wars
characters. So it's it's kind of like the
wild, Wild West. But I think so.
But I had with those lawsuits too, is it's going to end with
mid journey saying it's not our fault, it's the prompter's
fault. And they're going to turn it on
the end user and say, well, you're the one who asked for

(52:01):
Donald Duck. Well, they did change their,
they did change their written agreement with their users.
I think it might have been this year.
It was a little they were a little late to the game, but I
don't think that's going to savethem.
I did, I think didn't they just lose them or I feel like this

(52:21):
the lawsuit? No, it was about, it was about
authors. And the judge says it wasn't
enough for the authors, but it'stoo little too late.
You can't take the can't take the brain away from the robot.
And I think there's also this misunderstanding.
It's like, OK, I'm just, I, I'm not using any of your text.
I just know it, right? It's like if you get inspired by
watching a movie and then write like a sequel to The Matrix, but

(52:44):
don't use any of the original characters, those films exist.
Those people don't get sued, right?
It's not Donald Duck. It's something that just looks
like Donald Duck. You're the one who draws the
connection. And in fact, there's like the
ability for it to be different and and make money off it is
stuff that they've copyright written down before.
But I don't think it ever considered the ability to

(53:04):
generate these fakes on this level where you've created
something so close to Donald Duck but legally different that
it it surpasses the test, but itstill invokes the feeling.
They were afraid of that. Oh, it looks like Donald Duck.
Yeah, I agree. That's completely possible.
And it seems like they've, it seems like they backed off
actually quite a while ago, you know, when, when all the

(53:24):
lawsuits were first filed. And they maybe they did what
you're talking about where they just said, let's just instead of
doing exactly the way it should be, which we can, let's just
make it a little bit different. So it's not so easy to, you
know, invoke. It invokes the same feeling like
you're talking about, but not soeasy to fight in court or, you
know, argue in court. All right, as we wrap up here,

(53:52):
what was a tumultuous episode inthe end of Season 2, I want to
thank our fans, our our guests and our hosts for a wonderful 21
episodes. 21 more to go before we reach 42.
And then we can do it all over again to go to 84.
And we'll keep going until we'reat 168.

(54:12):
And the story continues. Yeah, Congrats you guys.
Yeah, we really appreciate having you on.
Craig, before you go, would you like to add a moving to the
wheel? I think I'm going to get a lot
of booze on this one. Guys, you'll never guess what
just happened. I just hit one day sober and it
is the toughest one. They say one day at a time and

(54:34):
this is the tough one. I am not going to be able to
watch a movie tonight. I am sweating like a
motherfucker. I feel so sick.
It is disgusting. I can't.
I'm barely here right now. So what I'm going to do?
I'm put whisper breech on this bad boy and we're going to break
quorum here without spinning thewheel and watching a film on the

(54:55):
Tuesday Cinema Club. I know, I know, it's not what
our fans come to expect, but we usually cut off the recording
when the movie goes on anyway because great.
To your point, we would never beable to publish another movie on
to Spotify. Like, just the sound of us
pausing and throwing. But I hope, I hope our loyal
fans understand. I hope our hosts understand.

(55:16):
Podcast sucks. Yeah, yeah, it's really falling
off, but. Yeah, guys, wait, wait to end
the second season strong anything I want to know how many
how many hours is it going to take you to construct a wheel of
200 films for for October I'm. Going to ask AI to do it.

(55:40):
Yeah, I was supposed to do that on the stream tonight.
I'm like, I'm like heads like just take a selfie, bro.
I look, I look like I'm coming out of it.
How many? How many are on the list?
Do you even know the number? The total number yet?
No, I never counted. Don't forget I I put on like 2
DVDs. That or three DVD sets that have
like 60 movies each. There's a.
Lot on that wheel. That wheel's going to be a big
one. So this is a wheel for November

(56:01):
when we come back. And of course, we're only
actually doing podcast episodes on Tuesdays next month, but I am
going to try to stream 31 moviesin the Discord, so if you see us
in here, feel free to stop by. Oh, for sure.
Very cool. All right, folks, I'm going to
put on the final, final moment here, which will be us watching

(56:23):
the trailer for Whisper Breach. Let's check it out.
WB stands for Whisper Breach, and when Whisper Breach is fully
activated, the powerful will crumble and they'll never know
what you know. So I want to ask you this
because we have some gun nuts inour thing.

(56:45):
Did you do? Did you film this like this
because of Alec Baldwin? Explain the question.
Had a good friend who was actually right there in on that
set well. I there's a crazy way to hold
the gun, is what we what he was saying or Yeah, yeah.

(57:07):
She was actually trained by the by the shooting coach at we were
down in at the San Diego gun gunrange and she was trained by
them. So he was watching.
That's a real gun. That's that's the real shoot
real live ammo on set or you shooting blanks.
No, no, but that's, that's the right, that's the right way to

(57:28):
hold it. You know, she, she didn't do
perfect According to him, but she did pretty good.
Is that what your comment was was that she was holding it in a
strange way? She's got her finger over the
trigger guard right here. And I was wondering if that was
because of what Alec Baldwin didon his set.
Like he didn't want to put the because there's all those rules
now about how to handle guns on sets.

(57:50):
I mean, it is, it could be the case that she's actually
left-handed and it could just bethe angle that we're at that she
actually has her left hand in she.
Is she is left-handed and she was, she spent about two hours
training with the, with the, youknow, the guy who teaches gun
classes there. So she was, I didn't, I was

(58:10):
busy. So I wasn't involved in the
training. And you know, but I'm not, I'm
not super well trained on on, you know, small arms fire and
don't know exactly, but he was watching her to make sure, you
know, because he wanted it to be, to look right and be right.
And he said that she did pretty good.
There was one thing he said thatshe kind of messed up.

(58:30):
I don't know what it is, but I don't think it was that finger
on the on the no. I think that's if she's.
I think that's for stability, yeah.
Nice. Nice.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You're talking about so that so
that the fingers not know her other finger is definitely on
the trigger. Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I know this is just she's left-handed.
So we you know that that came across that way you.
Know what you know? Do you know how much they are

(58:58):
paying former agents with your skill sets?
It's gone up a lot. We could use the money.
Nice. Is that La Hoya?
That is Catalina. Nice.
Oh, that's cool. The.

(59:18):
IP that we own, people will literally kill for.
That's beautiful out there. And the Russians are prodding
and poking our security. Daily I'm in need of immediate
assistance. I repeat, immediate assistance.
Dude. 1 missing free diver. That's my wife.

(59:39):
I think she might be drowning. OK.
I'm WB, not Winston. You're the computer program he
was talking about, Winston. I know that you're well meeting.
You're trying to keep things. Simple How many cameras have you
hacked into? All of them.
WB three do you wish him out of office?

(01:00:02):
Get you there? Consider.
It done early this morning. Agents from the FBI arrested.
LA City Councilman Alex Brothersat his hillside home.
General, let's. Move this side of.
Course, Sir, I watched. It.
First hand. Take down a local politician and
listen to all of ours on your request.

(01:00:25):
Yes Sir, I requested it and it happened, simple as that.
You heard about people who got the AI psychosis, I think.
AI is a God I heard. About the guys that were using
it for psychotherapy, No, no, this is a that was a pretty

(01:00:48):
recent story. These are people who are driven.
To be psychotic because they'll spend.
Time talking to specifically like a ChatGPT and it's like a
common phrase for like ChatGPT to gas up its user to be like
wow so insightful you're really on the ball.
You really know your way around this stuff.
And, you know, these are people who probably in their day-to-day

(01:01:09):
life never hear compliments likethat.
And they like the the feedback loop is like, so like the earth
is flat. And they're like, wow, you're so
insightful. Yeah, that is right.
And so I'm a God and I control everything.
Yeah, you're right. So I can take a politician out
of office. Yeah, you're right.
And then like, you know, they'retrying to tell their.
No, I haven't. What's what'd you call it?
I gotta look that up. Well, they.

(01:01:30):
I. Psychosis, right?
So these pit is kind of similar.To the to the problem they were.
Having because were you there when that like ChatGPT had to
sort of dial down the that, you know, response where it's
reinforcing everything you do isthe greatest and best question.

(01:01:50):
And when they did that, the people that were using it for
kind of like their own therapy session were like really upset
and up in arms and like complaining to them because it
wasn't telling what they wanted to hear anymore.
So maybe one of them, maybe those are the ones who who lean
into it and it turns into this AI psychosis.

(01:02:16):
Can I can I say one thing about the trailer we just watched?
Yeah, of course. And I want you to take.
This as like this is a. 100% a. Compliment.
I can tell that this is not froma giant studio because I can see
the whole thing like it is. It is actually lit properly,
which a major movie studio in 2025 would not do.

(01:02:38):
They don't, you know, you have alot of dark scenes in this, in
this film. And I can still tell what the
hell is going on. And I know that's that has to
not be from like there's hair lighting in here, right?
There's actual real lighting in a lot of these scenes.
And it's like, man, if I if thiswas the the Netflix movie, like,
you know, they just they turn off the lights, right, Like

(01:03:00):
everything is just so dark. It's crazy.
Can't see anything. Dang you, you wouldn't shot
underwater, bro. That must.
Have been an expensive day yeah you well I mean I.
I literally I used all my stuff for that.
We used our boat. I do a lot of underwater
photography, so I wanted to throw that into this.

(01:03:21):
This looks super good. Yeah, this lighting's great.
Man, I can tell you I was on. I was on scuba for this but.
Yeah, we do pre diving and and my kids are really into it.
So you know, like that's kind ofsomething I do and wanted to
incorporate it because I I love underwater.
I love the way underwater stuff looks and I just love being in
that world. So I wanted to throw it into the

(01:03:43):
film and and we had we just got,you know, we going out to
Catalina to a place I know, and we just got really lucky with
beautiful day and beautiful vis Yeah, the number of times I have
to like get into. My into my living room and just
like completely shut off all thelights.

(01:04:03):
Not because it makes it more, you know, theater or cinematic,
because I literally can't see the TV show.
I do that all the time. But you know like in the in the.
World of cinematography. I would, you know, I ended up
shooting this. It wasn't sort of meant to be,
but I ended up shooting it as well.
I wasn't, you know, we would notsay that this is like at the

(01:04:24):
level of a lot of those films where they're they're really
like writing that, you know, thethe edge of exposure for a mood.
You know, I didn't I didn't I didn't feel like I really had
the time to. I did the best I could to get
through this because I've wantedto get this story done and and
make a film that was like my primary mission.
I think, you know, the next one I do, the next one I do, I'll

(01:04:46):
I'll spend definitely spend moretime on on making it look even
better, you know, because that's, that's my background.
I mean, yeah, just, it's just crazy, man.
Like I mean. God bless Christopher Nolan, but
like my guy needs to someone needs to stop him so that I
could hear they said he didn't validate your parking.
I just I. Like someone needs to.
Like, like, I don't care how good, how good your movies are,

(01:05:10):
if I can't hear them, it's not OK.
You know, if I can't see, if I can't see the film happening,
like I don't care how good it is.
It's just like it's a crazy world we live in where like
these movies are like, and even TV shows now, you know, the the
the heirloom quality HBO style, you know, this is this is
premium television. It's just like dark rooms and

(01:05:33):
people like like they won't bikeanybody.
They don't bike them. They don't wipe them.
It's crazy. Yeah, and you're right.
If you're watching if you're trying to watch in your house
at. Daytime, you can't watch the
movie, you have to you have to like black out everything to to
be able to see it. The other thing is when you're
when you're coloring these things, you know, they're doing
all these HDR coloring. You know, you go in for these

(01:05:56):
high end color sessions and you know, I got super lucky at my
colorist did a bunch of Christopher Nolan films and
he's, you know, he's top of his game and he, you know, you know,
did me a huge favor and made this thing look as as good as it
does. But you know, they're they're
doing HDR passes and how many people in the in the world have

(01:06:19):
HDRTV sets? So they're riding like the fine
line of which this is going to look like the most, most people
that have a lower end TV, all those blacks are going to drop
out and like it's not, you know,they're they're going way beyond
and then they are. There's so few streaming
services that actually. Deliver HDR like they promise
like 100% yeah, that's another and you know it's like.

(01:06:41):
Multiple, you know, all the way down the pipeline you're running
into these problems. So it's it is interesting, but I
think this is a really good point that you're bringing up.
Sticky is like the you know thatwe're we're like the good DPS
are riding this line and in the studio it looks amazing.

(01:07:01):
But as soon as you get it onto an average TV set, it it
couldn't like you said, you're going to have to like turn out
all the lights and black the windows just to see it.
I think this also comes from like a disconnect between the
creator. Space and the user space like
back in the day, the creator space, the top of the line TV's,
the CRTS that were in the studiowere pretty close to the CRTS

(01:07:22):
that were in the homes. But these days like they'll have
all gold cables connecting 4K right out of the footage.
There's no compression the filesraw and you're looking at it on
$6000 plus computer that's able to handle it and then you ship
that out at a compressed file toa streaming service and it shows
up on someones phone and those the the difference there is too

(01:07:45):
ginormous and you can't. What are you making it for?
Are you making it for a phone orare you making it for 70mm?
Well guess what people are goingto watch 1 battle after another
in both places. I mean, they used to.
They used to edit the. For TV for both format and
content, man, like they used to do that yeah, yeah, it's a
different game these. Days for sure.

(01:08:06):
These are great points. We, we, we invented.
An accent that didn't exist, right that that transatlantic
accent we invented for film, youknow, so like that over
enunciation kind of like more, more theater style, you know,
and people did that so that it could come across because the

(01:08:27):
technology we're dealing with. And now I just feel like, man,
the actors, I don't, I don't know if it's a combination of
just like actors want more realism and directors want more
realism and you know, you, you want to like have the certain
mood or what have you. But like, at some point cinema
is an art form and having tryingto emulate the real world

(01:08:51):
doesn't mean that it's better art, right?
Like if you take it like an impressionist painting, like
it's an art form, but the galleries that used to exist.
In the 50s were solely theaters.There was no home video.
Yeah, yeah. Now, you know, the medium hasn't
changed very much, but the gallery has become infinite.
Yeah, that's true. OK, guys, I got to pass out.

(01:09:13):
I. I literally got to drink water.
I really hope everyone. Doesn't make the mistakes I mean
to get me here, but. One day at a time and I'll see
you all for the spooky month tomorrow.
Want to give a big shout outs tothe entire production staff and
team of Whisper Breach? Be sure to watch it on Vimeo.
And a special thanks to the director, writer, Craig, for

(01:09:33):
coming on today. Hey guys, Thanks so much for
having me. Go get some.
Water and good luck with October.
That sounds epic. Yeah.
Yeah. One day at a time, they say.
All right. Folks, that's it from my end
later. Cheers guys.
So on later.