February 5, 2025 • 56 mins
What if overcoming personal hardships could not only heal you but empower you to help others? Join me for an inspiring episode of the Turning Pain into Strength podcast, where I sit down with Jenna Talleda, a registered dietitian who transformed her struggles with ARFID, orthorexia and a heartbreaking divorce into a journey of resilience and empowerment. Discover how Jenna's painful experiences with an excessive focus on food spiraled into a quest for control and self-worth, only to find freedom and strength through intuitive eating.
Our candid conversation with Jenna unravels the complex relationship between eating disorders and the desire for control amidst life's chaos. From financial struggles to emotional upheavals, Jenna shares how she navigated these external pressures and found her way back to self-compassion and body acceptance. This episode challenges societal norms and highlights the importance of fostering a healthier relationship with food, self-worth, and body image. Jenna’s story is a testament to the transformative power of self-compassion and the journey toward healing.
Explore the impact of chronic dieting and the cycle of restriction and binge eating, as Jenna delves into her own experiences growing up in a dieting-focused household. Learn about the role of adequate nourishment and how listening to your body's needs can lead to a balanced, healthier lifestyle. As Jenna shares her valuable insights on breaking free from dieting, she offers listeners a path toward empowerment and recovery through intuitive eating. Don't miss out on this enlightening conversation that promises to inspire and equip you with the tools to embrace a more compassionate relationship with yourself and food.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michelle (00:01):
Welcome to Turning Pain into Strength podcast.
I am your host, MichelleEberwein.
Today I have a truly inspiringguest joining us.
She is a registered dietitianwho has overcome her own
struggle with eating disordersand now she has dedicated her
life to helping others on theirjourney to recovery.
(00:22):
Welcome, Jenna Talleda.
Thank you so much for coming onmy podcast and you can start
wherever you wanted to.
You said that you had an eatingdisorder.
Is that still current, or isthat something you dealt with in
your childhood?
Where did it begin?
Jenna (00:48):
y relationship with food was kind of wonky throughout my
entire lifetime uh, lots ofchronic dieting and things like
that.
But this more like vibrantmoment, I suppose it it was.
Actually, it wasn't too longago it was back in 2016 time
(01:14):
frame and I was going through areally rough divorce and,
unfortunately, my husband wastelling me that it was okay for
him to cheat on me because I wasfat and so it just totally sent
(01:47):
me down this path here and Iat the time I was already not in
a very good headspace as it was, but that just just hearing him
say that to me and why it wasokay for him to make his choices
, that really just hit me hardand so I blame.
I'm sorry that hurt so badly.
It did did Very much so, verymuch so, and it just seemed to
kind of come out of left field.
And now, looking back on it, Iam in recovery from it, but I
(02:14):
can see now that it wasobviously just him trying to not
take responsibility for hisactions and just try to distract
me with where he knew wouldhurt and um, but at that time,
uh, I just took it on as well.
It's my fault that therelationship ended and um, and
(02:36):
so I.
I ended up, uh, like putting allof these restrictions on myself
and and to to a another person.
It would have just looked likea health kick.
It would have looked like, youknow, regular dieting or
(02:57):
something.
But what happened was andthat's usually how these was,
and that's usually how these, alot of these things, start to,
but it's everything had to bemade in a certain type of way.
I couldn't go out to eat atrestaurants because I didn't
have control over how they weremaking it and it.
(03:20):
I was like obsessed with foodall the time and it was what I
realized.
It was an eating disorder thatwas called orthorexia, which is
healthy eating to the millionthdegree.
So very, very restrictive, veryperfectionistic.
(03:41):
And yeah, and when I would go tothe gym, I will first of all
hated the gym, but I was like,well, this is how you're
supposed to do it.
So that's what I did.
And I went to the gym.
The exercise that was that Ihated the least was the
(04:02):
elliptical, and I got soobsessed with it because when I
was sitting there on theelliptical or doing the exercise
, the TV in front of me was likesomething I did not want to
watch.
It was some sort of yucky newsthat I did not care for and I
couldn't read because I wasbouncing up and down on the
(04:23):
elevator.
You were moving, yes, and soall I could do was stare at the
(04:50):
screen that was in front of mewith all of my time was if I put
my heart in the danger area ofthe heart rate zone, because if
I put myself in what wasconsidered normal, it didn't
feel like I was doing anything.
So, um, uh, and I ended up likecoming off of those the machine,
always feeling exhausted andthings of that sort.
(05:12):
Um, it even got to a pointwhere I got so burnt out on it
that I would drive to the gymand just stare at the building
and pretend like staring at itwas actually going to bring me
inside of it.
And it just between like likebeing so rigid with my eating
and and the burning myself outat the gym and stuff like that,
(05:36):
it just it created this wholedynamic and I thought it was
going to take care of so manythings.
I thought it was going to likemake me happy, help me feel more
successful at my work, put mein a healthy relationship and
things like that, but actuallywhat it ended up doing was
(05:59):
causing more self-worth issues,more body image issues.
The only time I ever felt goodabout myself was if I looked at
myself briefly in the mirror orsomebody had commented and that
lasted like three seconds andthen my inner critic was right
back in my head saying that itwasn't good enough or that you
(06:20):
don't want to put it back andall of that.
So I was constantly obsessedwith it.
It interfered with myconnections with other people
because I didn't let myself goout to eat, you know.
Or if I did, go on that rareoccasion out to eat, I was that
person that told the waiter howto make everything and it was so
(06:43):
awkward for me.
I didn't really like being thatperson.
And then the people that Iended up dating they ended up
treating me like garbage.
They just kind of used me andleft, and it wasn't healthy in
any sense of the word.
So all of this because I thoughtthat that was going to help and
(07:07):
it ended up just bringing me alaundry list of other issues.
It got to a point where it wasThanksgiving and it was also my
birthday and I made all of therecipes according to my
restriction and some of themcame out good.
(07:28):
Some of them did not, um mybirthday cake being one of them.
Um, because I ended up using umalmond flour for it and almond
flour does not behave the sameway that wheat flour behaves,
and so it came out like thisreally weird goo, and as much as
(07:52):
I baked it, it just was notcoming together at all.
It wasn't working and so.
But the thing was is that I waslike, well, I want to have
birthday cake.
I guess I got to eat this, youknow, and I forced myself to eat
it, and at that point I wasjust like I'm going to give
(08:15):
myself the holidays off and so,and then come January I'll get
right back onto the wagon and doall the things.
Well, january came and went andI could not get myself to go
back to that.
It was just, it was so intense,it was really a nightmare, you
(08:37):
know, the whole time, and I kindof loosey-gooseyed it for a
while there, and I kind ofloosey gooseyed it for a while
there.
I ended up coming upon this book, like months later that was
called (08:57):
and, interestingly enough, I really didn't pick up
the book for me.
I picked up the book becauseI'm a dietitian by trade and I
was working with clients thatwere showing signs of eating
(09:18):
disorders and, honestly, Ididn't really have much
experience at the time.
So I went and I did someresearch and intuitive eating is
a very well established,evidence based approach to help
people with eating disorders.
So I'm reading this book withthem in mind and, as I'm reading
(09:40):
this book, like it felt likethey wrote the book about me and
I'm like I'm crying the uglytears as I'm reading this book
and, um, but it finally madesense.
It finally made sense why wefeel guilty about our food, why
we um, why we restrict ourselves, why we sit there and fight
(10:06):
with the scale so much.
It finally made everything makesense.
It was a completely differentway of thinking about food and
body, but it just madeeverything click for once.
Michelle (10:17):
Okay, um, and the main thing that connected you to
this book, thing that connectedyou to this book Was it a
control thing.
Did they teach you that thiswas the way to have control?
Because I've heard that witheating disorders, you know,
people restrict and monitoreverything to have control over
(10:41):
themselves and I'm wondering,was that your situation as well?
And, you know, was that part ofthe book?
Jenna (10:49):
Yes, so that's a really great question.
Really, to answer your question, there are two parts here.
Yes, control was a really bigfactor here.
There were other things thatwere at play as well, that also
were underlying reasons for this, but control was definitely a
(11:11):
factor.
Everything felt out of controlin my life, you know, moving out
into my own place, having allof these bills and not being
able to, you know, always coverthem as well as I wanted to, my
marriage falling apart and allof these different things.
It just felt so out of control.
(11:31):
Out of control and this was theway that I could.
And in in the book itself, it,it just it talked about
reconnecting with my body.
Instead of trying to follow allof these rules about how we're
supposed to eat and what ourbodies are supposed to look like
(11:53):
, it was more about learning howto listen and honor what my
body was trying to say and takeout that, all the fears that we
have about food, and and insteadcome at this from a neutral
perspective.
Um, it also talked about, likeuh, building up that
(12:18):
self-compassion piece andlearning how to appreciate my
body, no matter what it lookedlike, and just come at this from
just a way of giving myselfsome food and body freedom.
And so it just it, really just.
That was what was the connectorpiece, and also because a lot
(12:42):
of it countered what I hadlearned through my schooling of
becoming a dietitian, it wasalso really helpful to have
those studies there to actuallyvalidate what it's talking about
.
Because, honestly, if somerandom schmo came and told me
all of this stuff, I would havethought they pulled it from the
air and just you know, and Iwould have looked at them like
(13:05):
they were nuts and sometimespeople do look at me like I'm
nuts, but I promise a lot of thestuff that's in there is
actually very true and veryhelpful.
So, so, kind of coming at itfrom that perspective and and
everything, it just it reallyopened my eyes that I didn't
(13:26):
have to sit there and live likethis anymore and that my body
was good just as it is.
It doesn't have to be changedor fit within a certain BMI box
in order to be worthy or happyor healthy or anything like that
.
I can, I can just live my lifeand and it's okay to do so, and
(13:48):
um, and so it just it, it it waswhat I needed to hear.
Um, and so I ended up.
I ended up like that was likethe beginning of my recovery
journey, and after that I justdove head first into learning
all about this and and that'sactually on that second part of
(14:12):
your question of like thecontrol factor I realized that
when we try to restrict our food, that it's, or we try to change
our body in some way, it'susually not about our food or
body at all.
It's usually about somethingunderlying that we're trying to
(14:33):
achieve, that we've just beentaught to use food and body as a
way of getting, and that's whyit never feels like it's good
enough or whatever, or thatwe're always afraid of like, you
know, going back to what wewere before, because it's not
actually addressing the trueissue that we have at hand.
(14:55):
So control is one of thosereasons.
Feeling worthy or acceptable isanother one A sense of
destruction, so like ifeverything is super crazy or
even if it's super boring.
(15:15):
The you know we can use foodand body as a way of like.
Taking our attention away fromthat kind of stuff is a way of
like.
Taking our attention away fromthat kind of stuff and that's
what I was also doing in therewas.
I didn't want to focus on allof the negative things that were
happening, so it was easier toput my attention into
restricting and over exercising,Because the opposite of people
(15:40):
who are stress eaters, and they,you know, stuff a chocolate
cake in their mouth becausethey're stressed.
Um, yes, and also I did strugglewith emotional eating as well.
So, um, um, so it was kind ofthis weird, weird stuff, yeah,
(16:00):
and so, um, but they can alsouse that as a version of
distraction as well.
So, and then the other one is asense of punishment, so like if
I'm like holding on to somesort of shame about something,
whether it's food or bodyrelated or even something else,
(16:20):
I can use food and body as a wayof trying to punish myself,
like saying, oh, you can't enjoythat cupcake because you didn't
do something.
Or oh, I can't believe theconversation went that way, so
you can't have this food.
And what I found is that myunderlying reasons were actually
(16:46):
all four of them at the sametime oh, wow, and yeah, so, and
it was very intense.
Sometimes for folks it can justbe one or two, but yeah, at that
time it was all of them.
So it was a lot of stuff to dealthrough and and process and
(17:07):
come to terms with, and I'm in amuch better place than I was
back then.
That was like seven years, alittle over seven years ago, and
and I am in a much.
I'm in a much, much differentplace now, but but now I use
(17:29):
what I've learned to help otherother people with their own
relationships with food and body, because I don't want anybody
else to have to fight with whatI dealt with, because we don't
have to live that way.
We don't have to tie our worthto our body or tie it to our
(17:50):
food.
We can live our lives and, yes,we live in a world that is very
focused on taking up less spacein this world and all of these
different diets that are outthere in the world.
But that doesn't mean that's aproblem with us, that's a
problem with the society that welive in and when we can take it
(18:16):
from that perspective, we canseparate ourselves and realize
that we're not the issue there.
Michelle (18:22):
You know, yeah, that takes a lot to realize because
we're so good at selfdestruction, self sabotaging
yeah, very much so, and it'shard to undo those years of that
voice in your head saying youshould be skinnier.
(18:42):
Skinnier equals success andyou're overweight, so you're not
worth anything.
Society puts a huge you knowthing in our heads about it and
it's awful.
Jenna (18:57):
It really is, and what's even crazier about how much
value we take from that.
There's actually like a crazyhistory of how they determined
all of those things, because ourbodies are not meant to fit
(19:23):
into that BMI box.
We come from all differentplaces, all different genetics,
all different shapes, sizes,shades.
We're not all meant to lookalike, and when BMI was created
(19:45):
initially, it was never intendedto be an individual marker of
health.
It was just a tool to separatepeople into different groups,
and that's all that it was.
It was created by a man thatwas a mathematician.
He wasn't even in the healthfield and the only people that
(20:07):
he measured were other whiteEuropean males like himself.
He never measured any women.
He never measured othercultures or races or people from
other countries.
He just measured the people,the men, that were right within
his his space.
And yes, yes, exactly.
(20:29):
And so so the fact is andthat's where we get that
terminology about overweight andobese, which I find are very
oppressive types of terms but,but the yeah, but the fact is is
that it really was neverintended to be used the way that
(20:50):
it's being used now.
So and and it just the.
The history from that continuesbeing filled with misogyny and
with racism, and it's, it's alljust to take advantage of our
insecurities and continue us tokeep coming back to them and
(21:15):
keep paying more money andthings like that, because
they're a business, it's.
It's a $90 billion industryannually to try to take
advantage of.
You know, trying to saystatistic correctly, it's like
one in five will develop aneating disorder.
(21:51):
Three out of those people willdevelop disordered eating, which
is not necessarily like theyfit into the DSM-5, but they
still have a lot of issuesaround that stuff.
And so, with all of that beingsaid, it leads to all of these
things and this obsession withfood and body all the time.
And it didn't have to be thatway.
(22:12):
Yeah, so so, yeah so, butluckily, luckily, I, I'm out,
I'm, I see for what the world iswithin that sense, and now I'm,
I I'm working to help bringpeople out of that as well, so
(22:34):
they don't have to live in thatthat world.
Michelle (22:39):
Yeah, yeah, oh.
That is really.
That is really great thatyou're doing that, because you
know the struggles, so that isgreat.
So this started seven years agowhen things went really bad in
your marriage.
Jenna (22:57):
Yeah Well, the seven years ago, that was when I
started my recovery, so it waslike eight or nine years ago
that I was in the midst of theeating disorder when I was a
teenager.
Michelle (23:11):
Did you battle any eating disorders at that time?
Jenna (23:17):
Uh, yes, I did.
Um, it actually even startedearlier than that.
Um, I had something when I waselementary school age.
I had something that was calledARFID, which is avoidant food
restrictive intake disorder, andit's a sensory based thing, so
(23:40):
like a fear of eating because oflike fear of choking or
vomiting or you know differentthings like that, and so I only
let myself eat a certain amountof food during the day because I
was afraid of it.
I was able to work my waythrough that, thankfully, and it
(24:03):
didn't even have a name backthen.
Michelle (24:05):
I bet yeah um, but uh.
Jenna (24:10):
But you know, through therapy and through um, uh, all
of that, I was able to kind ofwork through that and and kind
of work towards eating a littlemore consistently.
There was a lot of chronicdieting in my house.
Um, my mom and my sister wereforever on Weight Watchers.
My dad was constantly pushingthat narrative all the time.
(24:31):
I remember they used to havethis sign up in the kitchen that
said nothing tastes as good asbeing thin feels.
And you know it wasn'tnecessarily pointed at me, I was
actually in a smaller body atthat time.
Michelle (24:47):
But that was the message for the women in your
house.
Jenna (24:52):
Exactly so every time we came in there, that was the
first thing you saw and yeah, sofood was always kind of wonky
and then then I'm pretty surethat I became a dietitian
because of that.
So luckily, I finally found myspace within that that I now
(25:16):
focus on intuitive eating, butbut yeah, it was always a wonky
thing.
I was in college.
I dealt with, um, uh, likecompulsive eating and emotional
eating and things of that sort.
So there was that piece of itand and just a lot of trying to
(25:40):
fight with the scale throughoutmy adult life you know, all
scales should be just thrown inthe garbage.
Michelle (25:47):
Yes, yes exactly.
Jenna (25:49):
That's really all they're good for.
Michelle (25:51):
Yes, I mean they don't tell us anything except how
we're gonna feel that dayexactly it does not tell you
health at all.
So did you wake up one day andjust decide I'm going to learn
about my eating disorder or I'mgonna try to do better, like was
(26:12):
it just one day that you wokeup and said I'm not going to
live like this anymore?
Jenna (26:19):
Um, I think it was well, especially with this last
episode.
The eating disorder that I had,it was that cake.
That was the final straw for me.
I forced myself to eat thatgarbage and it wasn't even
(26:40):
satisfying or hit the spot oranything.
And I was just like this, orhit the spot or anything, and I
was just like this I just can'tdo this, you know.
And also putting myself throughlike that feeling of like when
(27:02):
you, when you, take carbs out ofyour, your diet and then you
end up having that week of justfeeling like lethargy and anger
and all of that.
I couldn't put myself throughthat anymore.
It just it was just it was toomuch, and and and I eventually
realized it's because my bodyneeds carbohydrates.
(27:23):
I'm not supposed to take themout.
I'm supposed to, you know,nourish my body and feed it, and
my brain only usescarbohydrates, so of course it's
gonna feel crappy if I don't.
So so yeah.
So I would say it was thosethings that kind of said this
isn't working.
I at that time I didn't knowthat it was an eating disorder,
(27:47):
I just thought this was normaldieting, okay, and.
Michelle (27:52):
But it was once I read that intuitive eating book that
I was like, oh my gosh, I havea normal day for you with food,
because I don't know whatintuitive eating is.
So, what is your normal daylike for food?
Jenna (28:17):
Well, um and I'm gonna say this with a caveat that just
because I do something acertain way doesn't mean that's
going to work for other people.
Of course not, but pretty much,I guess, if I could kind of
come at this from a generalperspective, it's really more
(28:38):
about tuning into my body,giving myself food consistently
throughout the day, because mybody needs that energy, just
like our cars need gasoline.
Um, if, if the car doesn't havegas, it's not gonna go um and
uh, um, and so I, I give myselffood throughout the day, um, and
(29:02):
you know it's food that that isgoing to be satisfying for me,
that it's going to hit the spotnot like salads and vegetables
and I have to eat this becauseit's healthy.
Michelle (29:17):
So you just get up in the morning and listen to what
your body is feeling that day.
Jenna (29:22):
Exactly Okay, and that could simply.
That could simply be like Iwant a bagel or I want a muffin,
or I want to have some waterwith this or some uh uh, some
coffee or something like that.
Um, I usually like to havesomething that has a little
protein in there along with it,because that gives me a lot more
(29:45):
staying power than if I justhad something by itself.
Michelle (29:50):
And people have to learn that.
My sister is very brilliantwith food and she says you have
to have protein with yourcarbohydrates in the morning,
not cut the carbohydrates Right.
And I'm like I'm not eatingprotein in the morning, that's
for dinner.
And she's like, no, your bodyneeds that protein in the
(30:14):
morning, to you know, hold youover and burn and feed you.
And I said wow you know the.
Jenna (30:21):
Thing that you learn as you get older, that's so true,
and there's so many differentways of doing that.
Like it could be like eggs inthe morning, if you enjoy eggs,
it could be a yogurt, or or apeanut butter, or slice of
cheese, or, or it could beleftovers from the night before,
(30:43):
or even like if I'm nottypically a fan of this.
I don't like the texture of itor the flavor.
But protein drinks sometimespeople enjoy those as well, and
they can be an easy grab and go,but not necessarily at the
(31:03):
expense of carbohydrates, though.
But yeah, our body needs thatthroughout the day.
If we just limit it to dinnertime, then we are going to find
ourselves having those.
Michelle (31:17):
Give me that chocolate cake now, because if.
I'm starving.
I will eat bad things becauseI've let myself go for like five
, six hours.
I am just going to eat anythingin front of me, I don't care.
So it really is important to beeating these little snacks and
meals like every couple of hours.
(31:38):
For your body, you have to eatmore to feel better.
Jenna (31:42):
Yeah, and, and that's not necessarily a lack of willpower
either, that's actuallysomething that we have, this
hormone inside of us that'scalled neuropeptide Y, and its
job is to tell us to go eatsomething.
And if in its lower levels,it's very, quite easy to kind of
(32:07):
push off and say, nah, I gotother things I got to take care
of.
But all it does is it justkeeps increasing, which, if it
were sound, it would get louderand louder.
And then it gets to that placewhere you're just like I can't
take it anymore.
And that's when you're kind ofjust reaching for whatever is
available to be able to get thatenergy into your body as soon
(32:31):
as it can, to be able to getthat energy into your body as
soon as they can.
And so, but yeah, diet culturemakes that seem like it's a lack
of willpower, but it's reallynot.
It's just our body survivalmechanism.
But I will say there's no suchthing as a good or bad food.
Food does not have any sort ofmorality to it.
(32:53):
It's really just what societyplaces onto that food that makes
it seem like it does that, butit really doesn't.
It's a collection of moleculesthat helps our body in one way
or another, but it doesn't havethe ability to be morally good
or bad or transfer to us whetheror not we have it, because it
(33:16):
just doesn't have thatcapability.
Michelle (33:18):
That's kind of common sense when you think about it.
Jenna (33:22):
Understandably so.
But we can get so consumed withall of the fear mongering
that's out there about food,with all of the fear mongering
that's out there about food, andso it's it's easy to get caught
up in that and then not reallythink of it in that type of way,
right?
Because?
Michelle (33:39):
if you do eat that chocolate cake, you're worthless
, you're a failure.
You have no discipline.
What is wrong with you?
And yeah, so that is whatpeople think.
As soon as they do eatsomething bad, they're a bad
person.
Jenna (33:54):
Exactly.
I have a little trick that Ilike to give my clients.
If you ever find yourselfputting food into good or bad
categories, I want you to thinkabout a doorknob.
Okay, a doorknob is a veryboring piece of metal, true?
(34:15):
Okay, the only thing a doorknobis going to do is let you in
from one space to another.
That's it.
There's nothing else.
It's not going to go dovolunteer work.
It's not going to go rob a bank, it's just a boring doorknob,
right?
right.
And if you can conceptualizethat, I want you to bring that
(34:36):
over to your food, because foodhas as much morality as that
doorknob does, absolutely zero,okay.
And it's not going to go dovolunteer work.
It's not going to go rob a bank, it's not going to transfer to
you because it doesn't have thatcapability.
(34:56):
And, and the reason why isbecause if we sit there and we
put those foods into good or badcategories, then it gives them
a lot more power than theydeserve.
It gives them a lot more powerthan they deserve.
And then we start making rulesaround the food what kind of
(35:25):
food it could be, how much wecan have of it, how often we can
have it, and then we fall intothis cycle and the deprivation
starts building up until wecan't get, we can't take it
anymore and that could be quickor over time, but it gets to
that place.
And that's when we find that weeat quickly or we hide while we
eat or we (sorry, my cat'sthrowing things)
Michelle (35:50):
Mine was clawing at the door and I'm like lay down
oh goodness, um, so, uh.
Jenna (35:59):
So it's either uh, eat quickly, eat to a place of
uncomfortable fullness, hidewhile we eat.
Those things tend to happen,and then we get the guilt and
the shame because we didn'tfollow whatever those rules were
Right, and then the whole cyclestarts all over again.
(Mars, quit it).
(36:20):
And so where most people feelthat the issue is the eating
quickly or to a place ofuncomfortable fullness or
whatever, and that's the placethat needs to be addressed.
Actually, what needs to beaddressed is the rules and the
morality that we attach to thatfood, because chances are, if
those two things weren't there,the rest of the cycle wouldn't
(36:43):
have happened.
Yeah and so.
And it doesn't mean that byneutralizing it, you know that
I'm trying to say oh, you know,that's all that your body needs
and you know, eat that everysingle day.
No, your body does like variety, it loves different textures
(37:05):
and flavors and nutrients andstuff like that.
But it just means that the foodis just not up on that pedestal
anymore and that it's stillgoing to be delicious, it's
still going to be food thatcould help your body in one way
or another.
It's just not, it's not lettingit have that power anymore.
(37:29):
And then all of a sudden, thefood just becomes a food, and
and it, yeah, and it justchanges.
That way we think about it.
Michelle (37:46):
Okay.
So someone comes to you andthey overeat, like they just,
you know, eat a box of donutsand you know, 18 hot dogs at
lunch.
Very dramatic, they overeat.
What do you do for that?
Jenna (37:56):
So to begin with that, yeah, that's a that's a really
great question, and the personis super focused in on all of
that, and they're thinking theworst of themselves and that
inner critic chatter that youwere talking about.
The fact of the matter is,though, is that it's not a moral
(38:19):
failing.
It is not a moral failing thatthat happened.
And, coming back to that cyclethat we were just talking about,
even though it feels likethey're out of control and they
can't stop themselves, chancesare that wasn't really where it
started.
It started because they weren'tgetting enough to eat before
(38:41):
that.
So, whether it was the fact thatyou know they were restricting
from the last time that they hada moment like that, or it was
just that, oh, I just didn't eattoday because my to-do list was
crazy, and so the only time Icould actually stop and sit down
to eat was maybe around dinnertime, and then I just couldn't
(39:04):
get satisfied.
We work on the restrictionpiece of it, and we work on
giving them more food, which cansound scary because of you know
, all of the stuff aboutcalories and this and that and
the other thing that dietculture drills into our head,
but when we can nourish you andand and help you get more food
(39:27):
in regularly, then it's going totake that intensity out of
those episodes.
Michelle (39:34):
Okay, so you won't eat the box of donuts if you just
start eating throughout the day.
Jenna (39:40):
Exactly exactly, and there's other things that could
be in the mix here as well.
It could be that there's stressthat's happening and that that
is their, their coping mechanism.
We work on emotional eating aswell, but not from a place of
restriction, but more of a placeof curiosity and compassion.
Michelle (40:02):
They must cry in front of you.
They must sit down and hearthat because you give them grace
, Finally, that they weren'table to give themselves, and
it's almost a relief you givethem that freedom to just be
like, okay, this is a problemand you're gonna help me and I'm
(40:23):
not a loser for this.
And they must cry every timethey're in front of you.
You just have this energy andaura about you that really
connects you know I don't havean eating disorder, but I did,
and I lived on dexatrin dietpills and tab diet soda for
(40:44):
probably two years, and I neveronce had somebody come in front
of me and say.
I never once had somebody comein front of me and say this is
wrong, it's okay.
Let me help you.
You know, and you're that lightfor people.
I can feel it and see it, andyou are so awesome.
(41:05):
I appreciate that so much.
You went through so much,though, to get to where you are
today.
You went through so much,though, to get to where you are
today, and I'm sorry for that,but you know you are just
helping so many people.
Jenna (41:21):
Thank you, and you know what it's a big role it is, yes,
and even though that was a verychallenging point in my life
and I was beside myself thewhole time, especially during
that whole divorce andeverything like that because it
(41:49):
was that experience thatactually brought me to where I
am today and how I learned whatmy purpose is, you know, and how
I learned about my strength andmy resilience and things like
that and be able to help peoplenavigate this kind of scenario
(42:13):
as a result and if I hadn't gonethrough that, I would still be
naive.
I'd still be giving clientsweight loss diets and telling
them, oh, you're not supposed tohave the chocolate cake or
whatever, and all of that, andit wouldn't have been helpful.
So I needed to go through allof that in order to get where I
(42:36):
am today.
It gives you such anunderstanding of what people are
going through.
Michelle (42:41):
You can speak honestly when you've walked those same
steps.
Yes, and it's interesting thatyou say that, that you, because
of what you have gone through,you say that that you, because
of what you have gone through,you appreciate it because you
were.
You are where you are today andI just interviewed somebody
yesterday and they said I wouldnever want what I have.
(43:04):
I don't care that it's led meup to today.
I would never want what youknow, the chronic illness and
pain that I've gone through.
And it made me think for asecond, because I've always said
I'm grateful for what my youknow breaking my.
I'm not grateful for breakingmy back, I take that back.
(43:25):
But the compassion I've learnedfor people and what they've
gone through with theirdiagnoses and health issues, it
just brings you so much closerwhen you have people that make
you feel not alone.
Yeah, and they're not a failure,like when people come to you
with these eating disorders.
(43:46):
For years they've heard thatthey're worthless and're
overweight and they know theyeat bad, but they've given up on
themselves.
And then here you are, likeyou're not bad, you're doing
okay, we can help this, you know, and it's just relief.
Jenna (44:06):
Yeah, thank you, Thank you, I I I appreciate that.
Thank you.
Michelle (44:13):
Thank you I I appreciate that I've been so
tired, though going through it Ican.
Yes, You've gone through areally rough time to get to
where you are today.
Jenna (44:30):
Yes, and and I I can see what that person is saying about
their experience, it it.
You know, these really roughmoments are very rough.
That's why they are the waythey are.
But it's not about the moment,it's the stuff that we learn
along the way, the journey, andyeah, and that's what this, my
whole relationship with food andbody, is, is a journey.
(44:55):
It's not a destination.
It's because I have gained somuch stuff along the way and so
I mean diet culture kind of putsit into our head that we're you
know, oh, in such amount oftime, you're gonna have all the
things that you wanted in yourlife, unfortunately, but that's
(45:19):
that's not actually the case andit doesn't that I could so dive
into that subject area no, butthat's what society shows us,
and on tv and the magazines, andeven the clothing in you, you
know, on Amazon and stuff,everybody is super thin.
It's so true I was even justlike playing around with the AI
(45:43):
tools on Facebook that it'llmake an image for you.
It's natural image that willmake is in a smaller body.
I'm in a bigger body.
It has pictures of me.
It only shows me images ofmyself in a smaller body, and
that's probably because mostpeople are like, oh, I want to
see myself in a smaller body,but actually it feels kind of
(46:07):
inauthentic to me because that'snot who I am and but that's the
message that we get, that wehave to be in this type of way
in order to be healthy, happyand successful.
But that's not the case at all.
People are happy, healthy andsuccessful in any type of body,
um and um, and it just uh, thatthat's that's not really wiring
(46:34):
in the brain.
Michelle (46:35):
It does.
It does.
Now do people.
Can they be cured, or is this alifelong journey?
Um, not cured, cured, but youknow eventually.
Do they feel strong enoughwhere they can move forward?
Do they feel strong enoughwhere they can move forward, or
(46:59):
is?
Jenna (47:00):
this a lifelong thing, that they need advice and they
need the tools like every day.
So recovery is not a straightline.
Recovery is like this reallyintense looking roller coaster
and um and so, yes, people canget to a place where they um,
they can feel better about theirbodies.
(47:22):
They might not necessarily bebest friends I'm not looking for
people to be best friends withtheir bodies, cause that's a
very far off type of goal butyou can get to a place where you
can feel better in your bodyand you can take that inner
critic and put it in its placeand things like that.
(47:47):
But we also have differenttriggers that come up that are
unexpected, and our bodies andour brains might be used to
using restriction oroverexercise or any other types
of eating disorder behavior as away of coping with those kinds
of things.
So I can't necessarily promiseacross the board that somebody
(48:11):
is going to be 100% healed forthe rest of their life, but
they're definitely going to havethe tools to be able to deal
with it as it comes.
And you know, and sometimespeople need extra support during
those times, and that's okaytoo.
It's not a moral family either,but I know that I'm in a much
(48:33):
different place than I was sevenyears ago, and I still have
moments that are a little bitharder than others, but I
haven't fallen back into mybehaviors.
But I know now that, like, if Istart having body thoughts for
one reason or another, that Iknow that it's not actually
(48:55):
about my body, that it'sactually about something else
and I need to kind of dig alittle deeper to see what's
coming up for me.
Michelle (49:02):
Your body is craving, like that dopamine, so that you
feel better during yourstressful situation.
Is that what happens with yourbody?
Jenna (49:10):
It might be, but in that particular example it's really
more that I'm like.
I'll give you an example.
A couple of years ago I wasgoing out on a blind date and as
I was getting ready, all of asudden I had all of these body
thoughts come up and like oh,this doesn't look good on you,
(49:34):
or you're too fat or whatever.
And so I was able to kind ofstop for a second and give
myself a moment to breathe andrealize that the reason why
those body thoughts popped upwas because I wanted that guy to
like me, and I thought that mybody would be the reason why he
(49:55):
wouldn't.
And yes, there are some jerksout there that will just be
superficial that way, but that'swhat I want them anyway.
You don't want them anyways.
But that's why I was coming up,because my body was thinking
well, my, my brain was thinkingthat I had to be a certain way
in order to be likable.
(50:17):
But the thing is that I'm me,no matter what size body I'm in,
and I don't need to take upless space in order to be worthy
.
To take up less space in orderto be worthy.
(50:37):
So, and it it turned out later,the guy actually was a jerk.
He wasn't even worth my time atall.
But but that's what I'm sayingis that those body thoughts
weren't reflective of my body.
They were reflective of thefact of how I was feeling about
myself.
And yeah, and if I get the flipside, usually it's more of a
(50:57):
restrictive perspective.
I just recently went andvisited some family.
They're very deeply entrenchedin diet culture.
They think that weight loss isthe end, all be all for them and
they comment on people's bodiesand food and things like that.
(51:19):
It's very challenging, to saythe least, and I noticed while I
was down there I started havingsome restrictive thoughts and
things like that.
But I noticed that the reasonwhy is because I was in that
environment.
It wasn't actually about myfood or body.
It was because I was constantlybeing brought to think about it
(51:40):
with all the conversation andand actions in there.
Do you know what I mean?
Michelle (51:46):
So because I would have thought that you were
restricting because of thestress of your family and the
what was going on.
So or I I'm sorry you wouldovereat because of the stress,
and I mean I've never thoughtabout the restrictive side of
(52:07):
stress and and and so that isreally interesting to me.
Jenna (52:18):
Yeah, and the overeating part can happen as well, because
I do.
I do have a history ofemotional eating as well, um and
um, and there are points whereI will want to eat something,
you know, and and usually itcould be because I'm trying to,
you know, I feel like I can'tspeak, so I put the food in
(52:39):
there because it kind of pushesthe words down, so to speak, or
it helps to like distract ornumb me from whatever is in
front of me.
At the time I didn't feelnecessarily safe enough to
overeat in that house because ofthe environment.
But in other situations I couldhave found myself running to
(53:04):
the kitchen and not realizing it, cause I tend to go on
autopilot when that happens.
But yeah, coming at it againfrom that place of curiosity and
compassion, it's actually kindof helped me that I haven't
really been emotionally eatingfor for a while now, but
(53:27):
sometimes it does pop up, youknow, because that's just okay,
it does pop up, you know,because that's okay.
Michelle (53:31):
That is just the roller coaster, as you said.
Jenna (53:35):
Exactly, and it's just a message that my body's giving me
that something's going on.
Michelle (53:47):
And then I need some sort of love or support in that
moment to kind of help me getthrough it.
Okay, gosh, I have learned somuch and I have taken so many
notes.
Gosh, I have learned so muchand I have taken so many notes.
I mean, this is a lot of goodinformation that'll help people,
so I'm really excited aboutthis.
Again, though, I'm sorry you'vegone through it, but you've
turned it into helping others,which is just absolutely awesome
(54:08):
.
Thank you so much.
Do you have a website orsomething that I can put after
the end of the podcast so peopleknow how to contact you?
Jenna (54:18):
Yes.
Michelle (54:21):
You can send it to me if that's easier.
Jenna (54:24):
Okay, yeah, let me do that Just offhand.
My website isyour-nutrition-allycom.
Okay, and yeah, that's a greatway to reach out to me on there.
And yeah, I'd love to work withfolks.
I have a group right now calledPermission to Exist and that's
(54:49):
we meet twice a month and we a achat in between that we work
through these different thingsthat come up and and help to to
navigate the uh food critic andthey, um, all of that kind of
stuff.
Michelle (55:06):
So is that a facebook group permission to exist or is
that a local group for you?
Jenna (55:15):
it's a virtual group, so we meet on zoom um or google
meet actually, but um, yeah, Ihouse it in a in a Facebook
group, okay.
Michelle (55:25):
I just didn't know if I could promote that if you were
looking for more people to jointhat group.
Jenna (55:32):
Yes, I would love that.
Thank you so much Okay.
Michelle (55:36):
Well, Jenna, it was an honor to speak with you today
and I am just really excited andblessed that you found me.
Jenna (55:44):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate you andyour time too.
Michelle (55:50):
So what did you think of Jenna's story?
I thought it was a greatcomeback story and she really
taught us how to stop dieting,listen to your body and develop
a healthier relationship withfood, and that's what she
teaches.
So on my website you will findall of Jenna's contact
(56:10):
information so she can connectwith you and teach you all the
things she has.
So I will see everyone nextweek on the next Turning Pain
into Strength podcast.
Welcome to Turning Pain into Strength podcast.
I am your host, MichelleEberwein.
Today I have a truly inspiringguest joining us.
She is a registered dietitianwho has overcome her own
struggle with eating disordersand now she has dedicated her
life to helping others on theirjourney to recovery.
(00:22):
Welcome, Jenna Talleda.
Thank you so much for coming onmy podcast and you can start
wherever you wanted to.
You said that you had an eatingdisorder.
Is that still current, or isthat something you dealt with in
your childhood?
Where did it begin?
Jenna (00:48):
y relationship with food was kind of wonky throughout my
entire lifetime uh, lots ofchronic dieting and things like
that.
But this more like vibrantmoment, I suppose it it was.
Actually, it wasn't too longago it was back in 2016 time
(01:14):
frame and I was going through areally rough divorce and,
unfortunately, my husband wastelling me that it was okay for
him to cheat on me because I wasfat and so it just totally sent
(01:47):
me down this path here and Iat the time I was already not in
a very good headspace as it was, but that just just hearing him
say that to me and why it wasokay for him to make his choices
, that really just hit me hardand so I blame.
I'm sorry that hurt so badly.
It did did Very much so, verymuch so, and it just seemed to
kind of come out of left field.
And now, looking back on it, Iam in recovery from it, but I
(02:14):
can see now that it wasobviously just him trying to not
take responsibility for hisactions and just try to distract
me with where he knew wouldhurt and um, but at that time,
uh, I just took it on as well.
It's my fault that therelationship ended and um, and
(02:36):
so I.
I ended up, uh, like putting allof these restrictions on myself
and and to to a another person.
It would have just looked likea health kick.
It would have looked like, youknow, regular dieting or
(02:57):
something.
But what happened was andthat's usually how these was,
and that's usually how these, alot of these things, start to,
but it's everything had to bemade in a certain type of way.
I couldn't go out to eat atrestaurants because I didn't
have control over how they weremaking it and it.
(03:20):
I was like obsessed with foodall the time and it was what I
realized.
It was an eating disorder thatwas called orthorexia, which is
healthy eating to the millionthdegree.
So very, very restrictive, veryperfectionistic.
(03:41):
And yeah, and when I would go tothe gym, I will first of all
hated the gym, but I was like,well, this is how you're
supposed to do it.
So that's what I did.
And I went to the gym.
The exercise that was that Ihated the least was the
(04:02):
elliptical, and I got soobsessed with it because when I
was sitting there on theelliptical or doing the exercise
, the TV in front of me was likesomething I did not want to
watch.
It was some sort of yucky newsthat I did not care for and I
couldn't read because I wasbouncing up and down on the
(04:23):
elevator.
You were moving, yes, and soall I could do was stare at the
(04:50):
screen that was in front of mewith all of my time was if I put
my heart in the danger area ofthe heart rate zone, because if
I put myself in what wasconsidered normal, it didn't
feel like I was doing anything.
So, um, uh, and I ended up likecoming off of those the machine,
always feeling exhausted andthings of that sort.
(05:12):
Um, it even got to a pointwhere I got so burnt out on it
that I would drive to the gymand just stare at the building
and pretend like staring at itwas actually going to bring me
inside of it.
And it just between like likebeing so rigid with my eating
and and the burning myself outat the gym and stuff like that,
(05:36):
it just it created this wholedynamic and I thought it was
going to take care of so manythings.
I thought it was going to likemake me happy, help me feel more
successful at my work, put mein a healthy relationship and
things like that, but actuallywhat it ended up doing was
(05:59):
causing more self-worth issues,more body image issues.
The only time I ever felt goodabout myself was if I looked at
myself briefly in the mirror orsomebody had commented and that
lasted like three seconds andthen my inner critic was right
back in my head saying that itwasn't good enough or that you
(06:20):
don't want to put it back andall of that.
So I was constantly obsessedwith it.
It interfered with myconnections with other people
because I didn't let myself goout to eat, you know.
Or if I did, go on that rareoccasion out to eat, I was that
person that told the waiter howto make everything and it was so
(06:43):
awkward for me.
I didn't really like being thatperson.
And then the people that Iended up dating they ended up
treating me like garbage.
They just kind of used me andleft, and it wasn't healthy in
any sense of the word.
So all of this because I thoughtthat that was going to help and
(07:07):
it ended up just bringing me alaundry list of other issues.
It got to a point where it wasThanksgiving and it was also my
birthday and I made all of therecipes according to my
restriction and some of themcame out good.
(07:28):
Some of them did not, um mybirthday cake being one of them.
Um, because I ended up using umalmond flour for it and almond
flour does not behave the sameway that wheat flour behaves,
and so it came out like thisreally weird goo, and as much as
(07:52):
I baked it, it just was notcoming together at all.
It wasn't working and so.
But the thing was is that I waslike, well, I want to have
birthday cake.
I guess I got to eat this, youknow, and I forced myself to eat
it, and at that point I wasjust like I'm going to give
(08:15):
myself the holidays off and so,and then come January I'll get
right back onto the wagon and doall the things.
Well, january came and went andI could not get myself to go
back to that.
It was just, it was so intense,it was really a nightmare, you
(08:37):
know, the whole time, and I kindof loosey-gooseyed it for a
while there, and I kind ofloosey gooseyed it for a while
there.
I ended up coming upon this book, like months later that was
called (08:57):
and, interestingly enough, I really didn't pick up
the book for me.
I picked up the book becauseI'm a dietitian by trade and I
was working with clients thatwere showing signs of eating
(09:18):
disorders and, honestly, Ididn't really have much
experience at the time.
So I went and I did someresearch and intuitive eating is
a very well established,evidence based approach to help
people with eating disorders.
So I'm reading this book withthem in mind and, as I'm reading
(09:40):
this book, like it felt likethey wrote the book about me and
I'm like I'm crying the uglytears as I'm reading this book
and, um, but it finally madesense.
It finally made sense why wefeel guilty about our food, why
we um, why we restrict ourselves, why we sit there and fight
(10:06):
with the scale so much.
It finally made everything makesense.
It was a completely differentway of thinking about food and
body, but it just madeeverything click for once.
Michelle (10:17):
Okay, um, and the main thing that connected you to
this book, thing that connectedyou to this book Was it a
control thing.
Did they teach you that thiswas the way to have control?
Because I've heard that witheating disorders, you know,
people restrict and monitoreverything to have control over
(10:41):
themselves and I'm wondering,was that your situation as well?
And, you know, was that part ofthe book?
Jenna (10:49):
Yes, so that's a really great question.
Really, to answer your question, there are two parts here.
Yes, control was a really bigfactor here.
There were other things thatwere at play as well, that also
were underlying reasons for this, but control was definitely a
(11:11):
factor.
Everything felt out of controlin my life, you know, moving out
into my own place, having allof these bills and not being
able to, you know, always coverthem as well as I wanted to, my
marriage falling apart and allof these different things.
It just felt so out of control.
(11:31):
Out of control and this was theway that I could.
And in in the book itself, it,it just it talked about
reconnecting with my body.
Instead of trying to follow allof these rules about how we're
supposed to eat and what ourbodies are supposed to look like
(11:53):
, it was more about learning howto listen and honor what my
body was trying to say and takeout that, all the fears that we
have about food, and and insteadcome at this from a neutral
perspective.
Um, it also talked about, likeuh, building up that
(12:18):
self-compassion piece andlearning how to appreciate my
body, no matter what it lookedlike, and just come at this from
just a way of giving myselfsome food and body freedom.
And so it just it, really just.
That was what was the connectorpiece, and also because a lot
(12:42):
of it countered what I hadlearned through my schooling of
becoming a dietitian, it wasalso really helpful to have
those studies there to actuallyvalidate what it's talking about
.
Because, honestly, if somerandom schmo came and told me
all of this stuff, I would havethought they pulled it from the
air and just you know, and Iwould have looked at them like
(13:05):
they were nuts and sometimespeople do look at me like I'm
nuts, but I promise a lot of thestuff that's in there is
actually very true and veryhelpful.
So, so, kind of coming at itfrom that perspective and and
everything, it just it reallyopened my eyes that I didn't
(13:26):
have to sit there and live likethis anymore and that my body
was good just as it is.
It doesn't have to be changedor fit within a certain BMI box
in order to be worthy or happyor healthy or anything like that
.
I can, I can just live my lifeand and it's okay to do so, and
(13:48):
um, and so it just it, it it waswhat I needed to hear.
Um, and so I ended up.
I ended up like that was likethe beginning of my recovery
journey, and after that I justdove head first into learning
all about this and and that'sactually on that second part of
(14:12):
your question of like thecontrol factor I realized that
when we try to restrict our food, that it's, or we try to change
our body in some way, it'susually not about our food or
body at all.
It's usually about somethingunderlying that we're trying to
(14:33):
achieve, that we've just beentaught to use food and body as a
way of getting, and that's whyit never feels like it's good
enough or whatever, or thatwe're always afraid of like, you
know, going back to what wewere before, because it's not
actually addressing the trueissue that we have at hand.
(14:55):
So control is one of thosereasons.
Feeling worthy or acceptable isanother one A sense of
destruction, so like ifeverything is super crazy or
even if it's super boring.
(15:15):
The you know we can use foodand body as a way of like.
Taking our attention away fromthat kind of stuff is a way of
like.
Taking our attention away fromthat kind of stuff and that's
what I was also doing in therewas.
I didn't want to focus on allof the negative things that were
happening, so it was easier toput my attention into
restricting and over exercising,Because the opposite of people
(15:40):
who are stress eaters, and they,you know, stuff a chocolate
cake in their mouth becausethey're stressed.
Um, yes, and also I did strugglewith emotional eating as well.
So, um, um, so it was kind ofthis weird, weird stuff, yeah,
(16:00):
and so, um, but they can alsouse that as a version of
distraction as well.
So, and then the other one is asense of punishment, so like if
I'm like holding on to somesort of shame about something,
whether it's food or bodyrelated or even something else,
(16:20):
I can use food and body as a wayof trying to punish myself,
like saying, oh, you can't enjoythat cupcake because you didn't
do something.
Or oh, I can't believe theconversation went that way, so
you can't have this food.
And what I found is that myunderlying reasons were actually
(16:46):
all four of them at the sametime oh, wow, and yeah, so, and
it was very intense.
Sometimes for folks it can justbe one or two, but yeah, at that
time it was all of them.
So it was a lot of stuff to dealthrough and and process and
(17:07):
come to terms with, and I'm in amuch better place than I was
back then.
That was like seven years, alittle over seven years ago, and
and I am in a much.
I'm in a much, much differentplace now, but but now I use
(17:29):
what I've learned to help otherother people with their own
relationships with food and body, because I don't want anybody
else to have to fight with whatI dealt with, because we don't
have to live that way.
We don't have to tie our worthto our body or tie it to our
(17:50):
food.
We can live our lives and, yes,we live in a world that is very
focused on taking up less spacein this world and all of these
different diets that are outthere in the world.
But that doesn't mean that's aproblem with us, that's a
problem with the society that welive in and when we can take it
(18:16):
from that perspective, we canseparate ourselves and realize
that we're not the issue there.
Michelle (18:22):
You know, yeah, that takes a lot to realize because
we're so good at selfdestruction, self sabotaging
yeah, very much so, and it'shard to undo those years of that
voice in your head saying youshould be skinnier.
(18:42):
Skinnier equals success andyou're overweight, so you're not
worth anything.
Society puts a huge you knowthing in our heads about it and
it's awful.
Jenna (18:57):
It really is, and what's even crazier about how much
value we take from that.
There's actually like a crazyhistory of how they determined
all of those things, because ourbodies are not meant to fit
(19:23):
into that BMI box.
We come from all differentplaces, all different genetics,
all different shapes, sizes,shades.
We're not all meant to lookalike, and when BMI was created
(19:45):
initially, it was never intendedto be an individual marker of
health.
It was just a tool to separatepeople into different groups,
and that's all that it was.
It was created by a man thatwas a mathematician.
He wasn't even in the healthfield and the only people that
(20:07):
he measured were other whiteEuropean males like himself.
He never measured any women.
He never measured othercultures or races or people from
other countries.
He just measured the people,the men, that were right within
his his space.
And yes, yes, exactly.
(20:29):
And so so the fact is andthat's where we get that
terminology about overweight andobese, which I find are very
oppressive types of terms but,but the yeah, but the fact is is
that it really was neverintended to be used the way that
(20:50):
it's being used now.
So and and it just the.
The history from that continuesbeing filled with misogyny and
with racism, and it's, it's alljust to take advantage of our
insecurities and continue us tokeep coming back to them and
(21:15):
keep paying more money andthings like that, because
they're a business, it's.
It's a $90 billion industryannually to try to take
advantage of.
You know, trying to saystatistic correctly, it's like
one in five will develop aneating disorder.
(21:51):
Three out of those people willdevelop disordered eating, which
is not necessarily like theyfit into the DSM-5, but they
still have a lot of issuesaround that stuff.
And so, with all of that beingsaid, it leads to all of these
things and this obsession withfood and body all the time.
And it didn't have to be thatway.
(22:12):
Yeah, so so, yeah so, butluckily, luckily, I, I'm out,
I'm, I see for what the world iswithin that sense, and now I'm,
I I'm working to help bringpeople out of that as well, so
(22:34):
they don't have to live in thatthat world.
Michelle (22:39):
Yeah, yeah, oh.
That is really.
That is really great thatyou're doing that, because you
know the struggles, so that isgreat.
So this started seven years agowhen things went really bad in
your marriage.
Jenna (22:57):
Yeah Well, the seven years ago, that was when I
started my recovery, so it waslike eight or nine years ago
that I was in the midst of theeating disorder when I was a
teenager.
Michelle (23:11):
Did you battle any eating disorders at that time?
Jenna (23:17):
Uh, yes, I did.
Um, it actually even startedearlier than that.
Um, I had something when I waselementary school age.
I had something that was calledARFID, which is avoidant food
restrictive intake disorder, andit's a sensory based thing, so
(23:40):
like a fear of eating because oflike fear of choking or
vomiting or you know differentthings like that, and so I only
let myself eat a certain amountof food during the day because I
was afraid of it.
I was able to work my waythrough that, thankfully, and it
(24:03):
didn't even have a name backthen.
Michelle (24:05):
I bet yeah um, but uh.
Jenna (24:10):
But you know, through therapy and through um, uh, all
of that, I was able to kind ofwork through that and and kind
of work towards eating a littlemore consistently.
There was a lot of chronicdieting in my house.
Um, my mom and my sister wereforever on Weight Watchers.
My dad was constantly pushingthat narrative all the time.
(24:31):
I remember they used to havethis sign up in the kitchen that
said nothing tastes as good asbeing thin feels.
And you know it wasn'tnecessarily pointed at me, I was
actually in a smaller body atthat time.
Michelle (24:47):
But that was the message for the women in your
house.
Jenna (24:52):
Exactly so every time we came in there, that was the
first thing you saw and yeah, sofood was always kind of wonky
and then then I'm pretty surethat I became a dietitian
because of that.
So luckily, I finally found myspace within that that I now
(25:16):
focus on intuitive eating, butbut yeah, it was always a wonky
thing.
I was in college.
I dealt with, um, uh, likecompulsive eating and emotional
eating and things of that sort.
So there was that piece of itand and just a lot of trying to
(25:40):
fight with the scale throughoutmy adult life you know, all
scales should be just thrown inthe garbage.
Michelle (25:47):
Yes, yes exactly.
Jenna (25:49):
That's really all they're good for.
Michelle (25:51):
Yes, I mean they don't tell us anything except how
we're gonna feel that dayexactly it does not tell you
health at all.
So did you wake up one day andjust decide I'm going to learn
about my eating disorder or I'mgonna try to do better, like was
(26:12):
it just one day that you wokeup and said I'm not going to
live like this anymore?
Jenna (26:19):
Um, I think it was well, especially with this last
episode.
The eating disorder that I had,it was that cake.
That was the final straw for me.
I forced myself to eat thatgarbage and it wasn't even
(26:40):
satisfying or hit the spot oranything.
And I was just like this, orhit the spot or anything, and I
was just like this I just can'tdo this, you know.
And also putting myself throughlike that feeling of like when
(27:02):
you, when you, take carbs out ofyour, your diet and then you
end up having that week of justfeeling like lethargy and anger
and all of that.
I couldn't put myself throughthat anymore.
It just it was just it was toomuch, and and and I eventually
realized it's because my bodyneeds carbohydrates.
(27:23):
I'm not supposed to take themout.
I'm supposed to, you know,nourish my body and feed it, and
my brain only usescarbohydrates, so of course it's
gonna feel crappy if I don't.
So so yeah.
So I would say it was thosethings that kind of said this
isn't working.
I at that time I didn't knowthat it was an eating disorder,
(27:47):
I just thought this was normaldieting, okay, and.
Michelle (27:52):
But it was once I read that intuitive eating book that
I was like, oh my gosh, I havea normal day for you with food,
because I don't know whatintuitive eating is.
So, what is your normal daylike for food?
Jenna (28:17):
Well, um and I'm gonna say this with a caveat that just
because I do something acertain way doesn't mean that's
going to work for other people.
Of course not, but pretty much,I guess, if I could kind of
come at this from a generalperspective, it's really more
(28:38):
about tuning into my body,giving myself food consistently
throughout the day, because mybody needs that energy, just
like our cars need gasoline.
Um, if, if the car doesn't havegas, it's not gonna go um and
uh, um, and so I, I give myselffood throughout the day, um, and
(29:02):
you know it's food that that isgoing to be satisfying for me,
that it's going to hit the spotnot like salads and vegetables
and I have to eat this becauseit's healthy.
Michelle (29:17):
So you just get up in the morning and listen to what
your body is feeling that day.
Jenna (29:22):
Exactly Okay, and that could simply.
That could simply be like Iwant a bagel or I want a muffin,
or I want to have some waterwith this or some uh uh, some
coffee or something like that.
Um, I usually like to havesomething that has a little
protein in there along with it,because that gives me a lot more
(29:45):
staying power than if I justhad something by itself.
Michelle (29:50):
And people have to learn that.
My sister is very brilliantwith food and she says you have
to have protein with yourcarbohydrates in the morning,
not cut the carbohydrates Right.
And I'm like I'm not eatingprotein in the morning, that's
for dinner.
And she's like, no, your bodyneeds that protein in the
(30:14):
morning, to you know, hold youover and burn and feed you.
And I said wow you know the.
Jenna (30:21):
Thing that you learn as you get older, that's so true,
and there's so many differentways of doing that.
Like it could be like eggs inthe morning, if you enjoy eggs,
it could be a yogurt, or or apeanut butter, or slice of
cheese, or, or it could beleftovers from the night before,
(30:43):
or even like if I'm nottypically a fan of this.
I don't like the texture of itor the flavor.
But protein drinks sometimespeople enjoy those as well, and
they can be an easy grab and go,but not necessarily at the
(31:03):
expense of carbohydrates, though.
But yeah, our body needs thatthroughout the day.
If we just limit it to dinnertime, then we are going to find
ourselves having those.
Michelle (31:17):
Give me that chocolate cake now, because if.
I'm starving.
I will eat bad things becauseI've let myself go for like five
, six hours.
I am just going to eat anythingin front of me, I don't care.
So it really is important to beeating these little snacks and
meals like every couple of hours.
(31:38):
For your body, you have to eatmore to feel better.
Jenna (31:42):
Yeah, and, and that's not necessarily a lack of willpower
either, that's actuallysomething that we have, this
hormone inside of us that'scalled neuropeptide Y, and its
job is to tell us to go eatsomething.
And if in its lower levels,it's very, quite easy to kind of
(32:07):
push off and say, nah, I gotother things I got to take care
of.
But all it does is it justkeeps increasing, which, if it
were sound, it would get louderand louder.
And then it gets to that placewhere you're just like I can't
take it anymore.
And that's when you're kind ofjust reaching for whatever is
available to be able to get thatenergy into your body as soon
(32:31):
as it can, to be able to getthat energy into your body as
soon as they can.
And so, but yeah, diet culturemakes that seem like it's a lack
of willpower, but it's reallynot.
It's just our body survivalmechanism.
But I will say there's no suchthing as a good or bad food.
Food does not have any sort ofmorality to it.
(32:53):
It's really just what societyplaces onto that food that makes
it seem like it does that, butit really doesn't.
It's a collection of moleculesthat helps our body in one way
or another, but it doesn't havethe ability to be morally good
or bad or transfer to us whetheror not we have it, because it
(33:16):
just doesn't have thatcapability.
Michelle (33:18):
That's kind of common sense when you think about it.
Jenna (33:22):
Understandably so.
But we can get so consumed withall of the fear mongering
that's out there about food,with all of the fear mongering
that's out there about food, andso it's it's easy to get caught
up in that and then not reallythink of it in that type of way,
right?
Because?
Michelle (33:39):
if you do eat that chocolate cake, you're worthless
, you're a failure.
You have no discipline.
What is wrong with you?
And yeah, so that is whatpeople think.
As soon as they do eatsomething bad, they're a bad
person.
Jenna (33:54):
Exactly.
I have a little trick that Ilike to give my clients.
If you ever find yourselfputting food into good or bad
categories, I want you to thinkabout a doorknob.
Okay, a doorknob is a veryboring piece of metal, true?
(34:15):
Okay, the only thing a doorknobis going to do is let you in
from one space to another.
That's it.
There's nothing else.
It's not going to go dovolunteer work.
It's not going to go rob a bank, it's just a boring doorknob,
right?
right.
And if you can conceptualizethat, I want you to bring that
(34:36):
over to your food, because foodhas as much morality as that
doorknob does, absolutely zero,okay.
And it's not going to go dovolunteer work.
It's not going to go rob a bank, it's not going to transfer to
you because it doesn't have thatcapability.
(34:56):
And, and the reason why isbecause if we sit there and we
put those foods into good or badcategories, then it gives them
a lot more power than theydeserve.
It gives them a lot more powerthan they deserve.
And then we start making rulesaround the food what kind of
(35:25):
food it could be, how much wecan have of it, how often we can
have it, and then we fall intothis cycle and the deprivation
starts building up until wecan't get, we can't take it
anymore and that could be quickor over time, but it gets to
that place.
And that's when we find that weeat quickly or we hide while we
eat or we (sorry, my cat'sthrowing things)
Michelle (35:50):
Mine was clawing at the door and I'm like lay down
oh goodness, um, so, uh.
Jenna (35:59):
So it's either uh, eat quickly, eat to a place of
uncomfortable fullness, hidewhile we eat.
Those things tend to happen,and then we get the guilt and
the shame because we didn'tfollow whatever those rules were
Right, and then the whole cyclestarts all over again.
(Mars, quit it).
(36:20):
And so where most people feelthat the issue is the eating
quickly or to a place ofuncomfortable fullness or
whatever, and that's the placethat needs to be addressed.
Actually, what needs to beaddressed is the rules and the
morality that we attach to thatfood, because chances are, if
those two things weren't there,the rest of the cycle wouldn't
(36:43):
have happened.
Yeah and so.
And it doesn't mean that byneutralizing it, you know that
I'm trying to say oh, you know,that's all that your body needs
and you know, eat that everysingle day.
No, your body does like variety, it loves different textures
(37:05):
and flavors and nutrients andstuff like that.
But it just means that the foodis just not up on that pedestal
anymore and that it's stillgoing to be delicious, it's
still going to be food thatcould help your body in one way
or another.
It's just not, it's not lettingit have that power anymore.
(37:29):
And then all of a sudden, thefood just becomes a food, and
and it, yeah, and it justchanges.
That way we think about it.
Michelle (37:46):
Okay.
So someone comes to you andthey overeat, like they just,
you know, eat a box of donutsand you know, 18 hot dogs at
lunch.
Very dramatic, they overeat.
What do you do for that?
Jenna (37:56):
So to begin with that, yeah, that's a that's a really
great question, and the personis super focused in on all of
that, and they're thinking theworst of themselves and that
inner critic chatter that youwere talking about.
The fact of the matter is,though, is that it's not a moral
(38:19):
failing.
It is not a moral failing thatthat happened.
And, coming back to that cyclethat we were just talking about,
even though it feels likethey're out of control and they
can't stop themselves, chancesare that wasn't really where it
started.
It started because they weren'tgetting enough to eat before
(38:41):
that.
So, whether it was the fact thatyou know they were restricting
from the last time that they hada moment like that, or it was
just that, oh, I just didn't eattoday because my to-do list was
crazy, and so the only time Icould actually stop and sit down
to eat was maybe around dinnertime, and then I just couldn't
(39:04):
get satisfied.
We work on the restrictionpiece of it, and we work on
giving them more food, which cansound scary because of you know
, all of the stuff aboutcalories and this and that and
the other thing that dietculture drills into our head,
but when we can nourish you andand and help you get more food
(39:27):
in regularly, then it's going totake that intensity out of
those episodes.
Michelle (39:34):
Okay, so you won't eat the box of donuts if you just
start eating throughout the day.
Jenna (39:40):
Exactly exactly, and there's other things that could
be in the mix here as well.
It could be that there's stressthat's happening and that that
is their, their coping mechanism.
We work on emotional eating aswell, but not from a place of
restriction, but more of a placeof curiosity and compassion.
Michelle (40:02):
They must cry in front of you.
They must sit down and hearthat because you give them grace
, Finally, that they weren'table to give themselves, and
it's almost a relief you givethem that freedom to just be
like, okay, this is a problemand you're gonna help me and I'm
(40:23):
not a loser for this.
And they must cry every timethey're in front of you.
You just have this energy andaura about you that really
connects you know I don't havean eating disorder, but I did,
and I lived on dexatrin dietpills and tab diet soda for
(40:44):
probably two years, and I neveronce had somebody come in front
of me and say.
I never once had somebody comein front of me and say this is
wrong, it's okay.
Let me help you.
You know, and you're that lightfor people.
I can feel it and see it, andyou are so awesome.
(41:05):
I appreciate that so much.
You went through so much,though, to get to where you are
today.
You went through so much,though, to get to where you are
today, and I'm sorry for that,but you know you are just
helping so many people.
Jenna (41:21):
Thank you, and you know what it's a big role it is, yes,
and even though that was a verychallenging point in my life
and I was beside myself thewhole time, especially during
that whole divorce andeverything like that because it
(41:49):
was that experience thatactually brought me to where I
am today and how I learned whatmy purpose is, you know, and how
I learned about my strength andmy resilience and things like
that and be able to help peoplenavigate this kind of scenario
(42:13):
as a result and if I hadn't gonethrough that, I would still be
naive.
I'd still be giving clientsweight loss diets and telling
them, oh, you're not supposed tohave the chocolate cake or
whatever, and all of that, andit wouldn't have been helpful.
So I needed to go through allof that in order to get where I
(42:36):
am today.
It gives you such anunderstanding of what people are
going through.
Michelle (42:41):
You can speak honestly when you've walked those same
steps.
Yes, and it's interesting thatyou say that, that you, because
of what you have gone through,you say that that you, because
of what you have gone through,you appreciate it because you
were.
You are where you are today andI just interviewed somebody
yesterday and they said I wouldnever want what I have.
(43:04):
I don't care that it's led meup to today.
I would never want what youknow, the chronic illness and
pain that I've gone through.
And it made me think for asecond, because I've always said
I'm grateful for what my youknow breaking my.
I'm not grateful for breakingmy back, I take that back.
(43:25):
But the compassion I've learnedfor people and what they've
gone through with theirdiagnoses and health issues, it
just brings you so much closerwhen you have people that make
you feel not alone.
Yeah, and they're not a failure,like when people come to you
with these eating disorders.
(43:46):
For years they've heard thatthey're worthless and're
overweight and they know theyeat bad, but they've given up on
themselves.
And then here you are, likeyou're not bad, you're doing
okay, we can help this, you know, and it's just relief.
Jenna (44:06):
Yeah, thank you, Thank you, I I I appreciate that.
Thank you.
Michelle (44:13):
Thank you I I appreciate that I've been so
tired, though going through it Ican.
Yes, You've gone through areally rough time to get to
where you are today.
Jenna (44:30):
Yes, and and I I can see what that person is saying about
their experience, it it.
You know, these really roughmoments are very rough.
That's why they are the waythey are.
But it's not about the moment,it's the stuff that we learn
along the way, the journey, andyeah, and that's what this, my
whole relationship with food andbody, is, is a journey.
(44:55):
It's not a destination.
It's because I have gained somuch stuff along the way and so
I mean diet culture kind of putsit into our head that we're you
know, oh, in such amount oftime, you're gonna have all the
things that you wanted in yourlife, unfortunately, but that's
(45:19):
that's not actually the case andit doesn't that I could so dive
into that subject area no, butthat's what society shows us,
and on tv and the magazines, andeven the clothing in you, you
know, on Amazon and stuff,everybody is super thin.
It's so true I was even justlike playing around with the AI
(45:43):
tools on Facebook that it'llmake an image for you.
It's natural image that willmake is in a smaller body.
I'm in a bigger body.
It has pictures of me.
It only shows me images ofmyself in a smaller body, and
that's probably because mostpeople are like, oh, I want to
see myself in a smaller body,but actually it feels kind of
(46:07):
inauthentic to me because that'snot who I am and but that's the
message that we get, that wehave to be in this type of way
in order to be healthy, happyand successful.
But that's not the case at all.
People are happy, healthy andsuccessful in any type of body,
um and um, and it just uh, thatthat's that's not really wiring
(46:34):
in the brain.
Michelle (46:35):
It does.
It does.
Now do people.
Can they be cured, or is this alifelong journey?
Um, not cured, cured, but youknow eventually.
Do they feel strong enoughwhere they can move forward?
Do they feel strong enoughwhere they can move forward, or
(46:59):
is?
Jenna (47:00):
this a lifelong thing, that they need advice and they
need the tools like every day.
So recovery is not a straightline.
Recovery is like this reallyintense looking roller coaster
and um and so, yes, people canget to a place where they um,
they can feel better about theirbodies.
(47:22):
They might not necessarily bebest friends I'm not looking for
people to be best friends withtheir bodies, cause that's a
very far off type of goal butyou can get to a place where you
can feel better in your bodyand you can take that inner
critic and put it in its placeand things like that.
(47:47):
But we also have differenttriggers that come up that are
unexpected, and our bodies andour brains might be used to
using restriction oroverexercise or any other types
of eating disorder behavior as away of coping with those kinds
of things.
So I can't necessarily promiseacross the board that somebody
(48:11):
is going to be 100% healed forthe rest of their life, but
they're definitely going to havethe tools to be able to deal
with it as it comes.
And you know, and sometimespeople need extra support during
those times, and that's okaytoo.
It's not a moral family either,but I know that I'm in a much
(48:33):
different place than I was sevenyears ago, and I still have
moments that are a little bitharder than others, but I
haven't fallen back into mybehaviors.
But I know now that, like, if Istart having body thoughts for
one reason or another, that Iknow that it's not actually
(48:55):
about my body, that it'sactually about something else
and I need to kind of dig alittle deeper to see what's
coming up for me.
Michelle (49:02):
Your body is craving, like that dopamine, so that you
feel better during yourstressful situation.
Is that what happens with yourbody?
Jenna (49:10):
It might be, but in that particular example it's really
more that I'm like.
I'll give you an example.
A couple of years ago I wasgoing out on a blind date and as
I was getting ready, all of asudden I had all of these body
thoughts come up and like oh,this doesn't look good on you,
(49:34):
or you're too fat or whatever.
And so I was able to kind ofstop for a second and give
myself a moment to breathe andrealize that the reason why
those body thoughts popped upwas because I wanted that guy to
like me, and I thought that mybody would be the reason why he
(49:55):
wouldn't.
And yes, there are some jerksout there that will just be
superficial that way, but that'swhat I want them anyway.
You don't want them anyways.
But that's why I was coming up,because my body was thinking
well, my, my brain was thinkingthat I had to be a certain way
in order to be likable.
(50:17):
But the thing is that I'm me,no matter what size body I'm in,
and I don't need to take upless space in order to be worthy
.
To take up less space in orderto be worthy.
(50:37):
So, and it it turned out later,the guy actually was a jerk.
He wasn't even worth my time atall.
But but that's what I'm sayingis that those body thoughts
weren't reflective of my body.
They were reflective of thefact of how I was feeling about
myself.
And yeah, and if I get the flipside, usually it's more of a
(50:57):
restrictive perspective.
I just recently went andvisited some family.
They're very deeply entrenchedin diet culture.
They think that weight loss isthe end, all be all for them and
they comment on people's bodiesand food and things like that.
(51:19):
It's very challenging, to saythe least, and I noticed while I
was down there I started havingsome restrictive thoughts and
things like that.
But I noticed that the reasonwhy is because I was in that
environment.
It wasn't actually about myfood or body.
It was because I was constantlybeing brought to think about it
(51:40):
with all the conversation andand actions in there.
Do you know what I mean?
Michelle (51:46):
So because I would have thought that you were
restricting because of thestress of your family and the
what was going on.
So or I I'm sorry you wouldovereat because of the stress,
and I mean I've never thoughtabout the restrictive side of
(52:07):
stress and and and so that isreally interesting to me.
Jenna (52:18):
Yeah, and the overeating part can happen as well, because
I do.
I do have a history ofemotional eating as well, um and
um, and there are points whereI will want to eat something,
you know, and and usually itcould be because I'm trying to,
you know, I feel like I can'tspeak, so I put the food in
(52:39):
there because it kind of pushesthe words down, so to speak, or
it helps to like distract ornumb me from whatever is in
front of me.
At the time I didn't feelnecessarily safe enough to
overeat in that house because ofthe environment.
But in other situations I couldhave found myself running to
(53:04):
the kitchen and not realizing it, cause I tend to go on
autopilot when that happens.
But yeah, coming at it againfrom that place of curiosity and
compassion, it's actually kindof helped me that I haven't
really been emotionally eatingfor for a while now, but
(53:27):
sometimes it does pop up, youknow, because that's just okay,
it does pop up, you know,because that's okay.
Michelle (53:31):
That is just the roller coaster, as you said.
Jenna (53:35):
Exactly, and it's just a message that my body's giving me
that something's going on.
Michelle (53:47):
And then I need some sort of love or support in that
moment to kind of help me getthrough it.
Okay, gosh, I have learned somuch and I have taken so many
notes.
Gosh, I have learned so muchand I have taken so many notes.
I mean, this is a lot of goodinformation that'll help people,
so I'm really excited aboutthis.
Again, though, I'm sorry you'vegone through it, but you've
turned it into helping others,which is just absolutely awesome
(54:08):
.
Thank you so much.
Do you have a website orsomething that I can put after
the end of the podcast so peopleknow how to contact you?
Jenna (54:18):
Yes.
Michelle (54:21):
You can send it to me if that's easier.
Jenna (54:24):
Okay, yeah, let me do that Just offhand.
My website isyour-nutrition-allycom.
Okay, and yeah, that's a greatway to reach out to me on there.
And yeah, I'd love to work withfolks.
I have a group right now calledPermission to Exist and that's
(54:49):
we meet twice a month and we a achat in between that we work
through these different thingsthat come up and and help to to
navigate the uh food critic andthey, um, all of that kind of
stuff.
Michelle (55:06):
So is that a facebook group permission to exist or is
that a local group for you?
Jenna (55:15):
it's a virtual group, so we meet on zoom um or google
meet actually, but um, yeah, Ihouse it in a in a Facebook
group, okay.
Michelle (55:25):
I just didn't know if I could promote that if you were
looking for more people to jointhat group.
Jenna (55:32):
Yes, I would love that.
Thank you so much Okay.
Michelle (55:36):
Well, Jenna, it was an honor to speak with you today
and I am just really excited andblessed that you found me.
Jenna (55:44):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate you andyour time too.
Michelle (55:50):
So what did you think of Jenna's story?
I thought it was a greatcomeback story and she really
taught us how to stop dieting,listen to your body and develop
a healthier relationship withfood, and that's what she
teaches.
So on my website you will findall of Jenna's contact
(56:10):
information so she can connectwith you and teach you all the
things she has.
So I will see everyone nextweek on the next Turning Pain
into Strength podcast.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.