June 11, 2025 • 29 mins
GARY OLDMAN on Mastering the Gruff, Fart-Fueled Jackson Lamb in SLOW HORSES & Some TV Topics
#SlowHorses #GaryOldman
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Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
Hey, where's the remote? It's time for ATV Topics, where
those who love television discuss the series and
performances that should be on your radar.
Welcome to TV Topics. This is your host, Stephen
Percykowski. Today's guest is an actor who
really does not need an introduction.
He's been grabbing audiences attention since day one.
(00:24):
With a career of work spanning genres in decades, it's tough to
pin down who he will portray next.
He's played everything from iconic vampires, punk rockers,
comic book characters, to his Oscar winning work as Winston
Churchill, and he keeps on delivering.
You can currently find him in his Emmy nominated role as the
unkempt, flatulent and often rude Jackson Lamb on Apple TV
(00:47):
Plus's Slow Horses. It was a pleasure to speak with
him to learn about his work and the TV he enjoys, which is a
very long list. Of course I'm talking about the
incredible Gary Oldman. Hello, this is Gary Oldman, and
today I'm hanging with Stephen Prusakowski on TV Topics.
(01:07):
Welcome to. TV Topics.
Gary, it's an honor to have you on the show to speak with you.
I'm a big fan of your career of work and of slow horses, of
course. So thank you so much.
Yeah. And we'll get going with your
work on slow horses in just a moment.
But first, I'm going to ask you a few TV Topics questions.
Remember, there's no pressure. There is no right or wrong
answers. It's all just a bit of fun.
(01:28):
So looking back over the years, what has your relationship with
television been? Are you ATV, junkie, watches,
everything? Are you very selective?
Do you have go to shows? Well, I'm a huge fan of long
form TV and I have been for years.
I've been really going back. So I've been watching TV and
(01:50):
shows for years. I've watched, I think I'm I've
pretty much watched everything that's out there and I'm
currently just finished Mobland,just finished the narrow road to
the deep N with Jacob Laudy and I'm about to dig into is it the
(02:19):
pit? Yes, that's the.
That's the next thing I'm up on the list.
It's a great series. Did this start when you were
younger? Did you always watch TV?
Yeah, I mean, like we all did, really.
Glued to the box. Yeah.
Everything from, oh, from, you know, Blue Peter, Doctor Who.
(02:47):
Yeah, yeah. Always, always been a fan And.
And, and really we are in the golden age of it now with the,
with the, the streamers often you'll see the best, best
writing and acting and storytelling, cinematography,
(03:11):
direction. You'll see that on our small on
our small screen, more, more than you will now at the at the
at the well, the cinema's becomean event, isn't it?
It's it's blockbuster big CG. It's amazing what you know,
(03:34):
they've they've streamlined it, they've figured out, you know
how many episodes to give. It used to be 23 and there was
so much filler that there like it didn't it didn't grip you as
much. Now you get into the story and
they've kind of perfected it anddecided, OK, this like Slow
Horses is what, 6 episodes usually?
6 episodes. A big fan of Columbo.
(03:55):
I was always fan, loved watching, loved watching Columbo
and but now yeah yeah. Slow Horses is 6 episodes, some
are 8. I think mob lands 10 but we we
(04:21):
feel that 6 is is is good to to take those books.
I think you nail it. Yeah, 4's too short, but 6 feels
a good length. And of course, we, we finish one
season and we take a small breakand then we shoot the next one
(04:43):
hard upon. So you're not as an audience,
you, you're investing your time and energy into characters in a
show and you're not waiting, youknow, a year, 2 years, three
years for it to, for it to return.
So we, we keep it, we keep it sort of coming.
And I mean, here we are talking about Season 4 and it's just
(05:07):
been announced that Season 5 is going to be released in
September, so. We I saw that great, great
timing to speak with you on the big Newsday.
Yeah. So what is a prime time show,
one that you remember really loving?
It doesn't matter if it was goodor bad.
It was your show. You mentioned Doctor Who, you
mentioned Colombo. Is there something that was your
show that your first show? That was prime.
(05:35):
I, I used to watch Cheers. Yeah, that, that seems to be the
one that I, I, I sort of watchedmost of that, that, I mean, back
in the day before we had TiVo and VHS and all of that, You
(06:00):
would organise your time, your week around that show on TV.
I'm sure many, many people rushed home from work to see I
Love Lucy or, or, or Jack Benny,you know, So there, I, I
(06:23):
specific, I very specifically remember watching Brideshead
Revisited and it would air, I think on a Thursday evening.
And it didn't matter what you were doing.
You knew that you had to be hometo see, to, to see the show.
And if you missed it, you couldn't record it.
(06:44):
And that was it. You know, little did we know we
would have to wait 30 years for you to catch up on.
But yeah. It's funny how much I remember
like every day. Like if it's a show that was in
the 80s, early 90s, I remember what day, what time it was on
(07:06):
because you, like you said, you had to be there.
Now we got ADCR, so that changedit a little bit, but still there
were shows that you had to watchbecause not everyone was
recording it and you wanted to be part of the conversation the
next day. I mean, before the, the VHSI
would record the audio and I hada look cassette player, you
(07:31):
remember those little cassette players where the where it would
flip up and you'd put the cassette in, you know, mono
thing. And I would put that near the TV
and record the show sometimes. And but you'd have to sit next
to it because obviously you wouldn't want to pause it
(07:53):
because of the commercial breaks.
But long before. Long before VHS, yeah.
The things we used to do. That today you try and tell them
that they it's horrifying. It's science fiction.
It's like this, this doesn't exist.
May as well be a caveman. How about a show that makes you
(08:15):
laugh most? Is there one that you put on for
a laugh or pick me up? One that really tickles the
funny bone. Well, Cheers was fun, was a very
well written show, very funny show.
(08:38):
Well, you're I think that there was also that golden age.
I mean, we're in a new era of television, but there was a
golden age that now you can appreciate on YouTube.
I mean, Lucille Ball was very funny.
(09:00):
I loved the the thing that makesme really laugh that I, that I
check in on occasionally are theDean Martin roasts.
They're very, very funny. Yeah, what what a line of of
comedians you had there. Not just comedians, but
entertainers. Yeah, and politicians.
(09:21):
And, well, and that I sort of go.
I go back to what do I find myself dipping into?
I'll watch anything with Fred Astaire dancing, the Dean
Martin, the sort of Brat Pack, the Marx Brothers.
(09:50):
Yeah, we have all of that now. You know, back in the day, you
would try to remember who, who some someone was.
You know, you're trying to remember an actor or the name of
the film and, and and and and then love would mention it at
(10:13):
dinner and you're trying to think of that actor and you're
in line of weight going what then what was that guy?
What what, what film was in whatthe what was the name of that
film? Now you just now, now you just
you, you Google or you get the name of the actor and then you
look up the films. It's a whole different.
(10:35):
But I do like dipping back in. I like, I like going back to a
different era. And Speaking of different era,
is there ATV character from any era, any genre for any reason
that you would have liked to have the chance to have played?
A character that I would have like to have.
Played ATV. Character doesn't matter.
(10:58):
If like you know, if you were too young at the time or you
know the the character is younger than you are at at this
age, is there just some character that would have been
great to have had that chance? Well, as I said, well, I always
like Colombo and I kind of my dirty Mack in Slow Horses.
(11:21):
I have two. I don't obviously have, I don't
have a huge change of clothes, but I go from my, I have my
winter coat. Lamb has the winter coat and
then he goes to the summer coat,which is which is Mac, which is
my nod. It's my nod to Peter Falk.
(11:45):
That's great. I didn't know that.
So let's get into to to lamb a little bit.
He's he's kind of like an oyster.
He's got this abrasive exterior,He's briny, he's kind of off
putting. But underneath there's this kind
of a Pearl of brilliance that often appears for your
performance. How do you balance that rough
exterior with what lies beneath?Well, a great deal of it is on
(12:07):
the page that that characteristic that that you're
talking about is very much the DNA in the book.
(12:27):
The creation of Lamb is obviously I give it movement
and, and A and A and a voice and, and, and an attitude.
But the real creation of Lamb isit's Mick Herrands.
(12:54):
How I play that I don't know. It's instinct.
It it, it's you're, you're givena a set of and then you you do
the work and then you do the work in in there's prep, but you
(13:19):
also you sort of do the work in the moment, reacting in the
scene to the other, to the otherpeople.
Yes, there's I don't know if it's softness, but there's
there's a loyalty there to to his slow horses.
(13:47):
He berates them and bullies themand humiliates them and yet and
but would take a bullet for them.
But he doesn't. He doesn't often reveal.
He he he doesn't often reveal that that side of him.
(14:10):
Is it at the end? I'm trying to think, is it at
the end of season 4 where he meets River in the pub?
Yes, and in the finale last moments.
That's his way of being nice. Well, that's the thing.
(14:32):
You you sit with him and you say, you know, do it what I want
to can can you see past that? Is there something, you know,
there's something beside, you know, buried inside of him and
there is a certain amount of softness, but at the same time,
you also know there's some kind of pain and secrets that he's
hiding. So it's like what?
How much leeway do you give thisguy when he's constantly kind of
(14:57):
like tearing you down and and can never just do something
without some sarcasm or without some barbs attached?
How do I play it? You mean no?
No, I'm just saying in general it's the I find it as it's a so
such an interesting character because when you watch that you
don't know how to read him because he does conceal so much.
Yeah, as each season goes on as well as the books, as Mick
(15:20):
continues to write these books and the seasons go on, there's
more layers of the Onion revealed.
There's things I know about Jax and Lamb now that I didn't know
going in, but it's, yeah, he's developed, obviously.
(15:43):
He despises the sort of bureaucratic, the whole
bureaucracy of of, of the main hub.
And I mean, so that's that that the sarcasm and and the distaste
(16:12):
for it is very much is very muchthere on the surface, but it's
spy craft. I think it's it's like a almost
like a defence mechanism. It's using it in a way to put
(16:33):
you on the back foot like you'llnever ever quite get the measure
of it. I mean, at the very beginning of
season 4 flight, since she's, you know, got his number and
even says, even says to Tavana, Oh, I've, I know men like that.
(16:58):
I've worked with them like that.And Tavana says, no, no, you
haven't. So he's always keeping people
sort of second guessing. So I think he uses it as as as
much as there are places that hepersonally necessarily doesn't
want to go to and has buried them.
(17:25):
He uses it to his advance. He uses that that sarcasm and
that sort of abrasive cantankerousness as a sort of as
craft. It's amazing.
It's amazing to watch. He's a complex character who,
(17:46):
you know, you look at his exterior and you think one
thing, but then with every line and with every episode, like you
said, a little bit more of that onions peeled back and we're
finding out, you know, who he is, even though it's very
reluctant or almost, you know, very secretive.
I want to get into his, his flatulence because it's kind of
a character of his own. And you really seem to lean into
(18:07):
the crude humor. Do you share the joy of the fans
as you squeeze out this aspect of your performance, or does it
kind of stink for you? I enjoy it.
It's again it, it's to it's to put people off the scent.
(18:37):
He uses it sort of as another it's another device.
It's another sort of trick that he has.
He happens to be very flatulent anyway.
I mean, his diet and he's drinking and and smoking isn't
you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend the sort of Jackson
(18:59):
lamb way of life, but it it is fun.
It's it's fun to play. I yeah.
And people do. I mean, you never see, there's a
scene, you never see a scene of like James Bond where you hit
the toilet flush and then he comes out of the bathroom.
(19:23):
It's, you know, and we wouldn't accept it.
We wouldn't. We wouldn't accept it.
But. But here in this world, we, we
will accept people on the toilet.
Yeah, I think that's part of theappeal.
Even though they're sponsors, they have the same stresses, the
(19:48):
problems in the marriage and therelationship.
And they've got to pick up the kids from school and they've got
a mortgage to pay, and they've got to go, you know, and those
on a lower salary who are not the taverners of this world, you
know, have to go to the launderette.
I I think that's part also part of its appeal that these are, is
(20:10):
sort of it people that we can, the audience can relate to
rather than that world of, you know, tuxedos and casinos and
all of that, you know, which is fun.
Yeah, it's a lot of fun that thefirst episode I watched, I
didn't know the character, I just knew you were in it.
And I'm like, OK, I'll give it ashot.
So I watch it and then there's afart gag and I'm like, wait a
(20:33):
second, I didn't expect that. And it completely, I'm like,
whatever everything I expected out the window and suddenly
you're watching it with a different, I don't know, like a
different sort of anticipation of what what you're in for in
each episode. Yeah, it sort of begins kind of
like a bit like The Bourne Identity with this sort of bomb
threat at the airport. Very high tech.
(20:59):
And then it cuts to Slough Houseand I wake myself up with a
fart. Really.
Yeah. It it knocks you off a bit.
You think, oh, what am I watching?
And it it was it's the best entrance, character entrance.
(21:26):
An introduction to a character Ithink I've ever had.
I mean, opening the opening the door to Harker as Dracula is
probably it's up there, but it'sa great introduction to.
If Jackson Lamb invited you to apub for a pint, would you go?
(21:49):
Oh, yeah, you'd have to take a sort of a joy in just being
insulted when you, I mean, you could probably hand, I could
probably handle that for a couple of hours with Jackson
(22:10):
Lamb. You've got to get him a little
tipsy and maybe get him talking about.
I'd want to hear a story from Cold War.
Yeah, as. Long as you know that what you
have to tolerate, you can tolerate it.
(22:32):
It's like if it if you just met him in the in the in the wild,
maybe a much different experience, but going in and
knowing who you're you're up against.
Like going to the OR something, you know, you know what you're
in for, you know what you're up against.
Yeah, so we'll close up a couplemore TV topics and and get you
on your way. If there's one TV death that you
would stop anyone for any reason, which one would it be
(22:56):
and why? ATV Death?
Oh, I'd forgotten. Yeah.
ATV death would be the characterMin, who was a slow horse and I
(23:17):
think in season 2 he gets killedby the Russians and we were
desperately sad to see him go, not just as a character but also
Justin as as an actor. We really loved having him on
(23:39):
the set and loved being around. I thought that was very sad to
see Min go. Of course, it gives Louisa
something to play in the next season and he's and he's not
shy, is he, of killing people off McCarron?
(23:59):
But we've really got to like men.
So that would be that's that would be ATV death.
That's that's a good one. There's a lot of great deaths on
the show, not terrible deaths onthe show that really hit you
hard. I only have a little more time
left, so I want to hop around toa couple more questions, and I
got a couple big ones. So the greatest moment in TV
(24:22):
history according to Gary Oldman.
Objectively and not, I'm sorry, not objectively, subjectively.
It's the moment, the moment thatthat that resonates with you.
It's a tough one on the spot. Yeah.
I'm thinking and not to eat up your time.
It's that's a hard one. Can I circle back to that one?
(24:49):
Sure, there's another one, maybenot as hard, but again, four TV
shows that make up your Mount Rushmore.
Oh, what? Yeah, sorry.
I'm getting prompted here by my wife.
I her memory is better than mine.
Yeah. Steven Soderbergh's The Knick.
I loved The Knick, so desperately wanted it to to come
(25:10):
back. Yeah, great show.
Say again, yes, I'd forgotten Studio 60.
Oh wait, that sounds familiar. It was.
It was the air, air, air and Sorkin.
Oh, Sorkin, yes. And it had the 1 and it had, I
(25:30):
think it was just the one seasonand I don't know why they took
it off the air. The West Wing would be another.
Did you say 5 or 4? 4 Is Colombo up there?
Well, Colombo, yeah. What was that one you were with
spring there? Yeah.
(25:52):
Are you familiar with a a Canadian TV show called Slings
and Arrows? No, I don't know it.
That was that's about 20 years back now.
And it was about, it was a show about a series about theatre
company. Very, very funny and very, very
well done. But your list, I could then go
(26:19):
on. The Naked Civil Servant,
Brideshead Revisited. You know, the list could go on
and on, but that's my fall all. Right.
Well, when the when the sculptorcomes, you have to make a
decision. So you have some.
Time. All right.
I'll close out with this last one.
(26:39):
If you have a magic door, one that allowed you to access any
TV show and live in it so you get to pop in whenever you want
as if it's real life, you get togo in, enjoy that world, and
leave whenever you want. Which show would it be?
Can't. Hear yeah, TV would be would be
Mad Men to walk into the world of Mad Men and maybe have a
(27:04):
martini with Don Draper. These are good questions, but
they get you thinking and my memories.
It's not thinking. It's not one of my strong points
right now. You've had some great answers.
I, I, I'll, I'll accept them all.
I don't like to give them an advance because then you get
people, you know, coming with prepared answers.
(27:25):
So it's best, you know, Yeah, That moment of inspiration.
People come up with things from 30 years ago, like, oh, wait a
minute, I and it starts stirringthe brain instead of, you know,
because we, we grew up without VCRS, we grew up without
YouTube. And that we, we have that stuff
stored. You just have to access it.
Yeah, that's great, Great, greatshows.
Oh, yeah. Peter Cook, Dudley Moore.
(27:48):
Then you start, then you start getting into the world of, you
know, Monty Python. That was the other thing that
you always came to watch, no matter what you were doing.
If I was out playing soccer in the street or the Monty Python,
anything Peter Sellers did, anything Peter Sellers did, I
(28:13):
think he was an absolute marvel,a phenom.
Sellers better than Olivier? Big statement there, but I might
just have to agree. I do have to wrap.
Thank you so much for your time.Thank you for all your work over
over the years. I mean, everyone loves your
stuff. Everyone.
Sorry I have to throw that in there.
(28:34):
One of my favorite line deliveries of all time.
But really, I've always appreciated your work to the
utmost degree. But I watched this series and I
was like, my God, I like this guy even more.
You're you. What you do is just incredible.
So thank you so much and and have a great day.
And you have a good day. Thank you to Gary Oldman for
being such an incredible guest on TV Topics.
(28:54):
Be sure to watch Gary's work on Slow Horses streaming on Apple
TV. Plus, keep tuning into TV Topics
and be sure to subscribe on Spotify or Apple Podcast or
wherever you find your podcast. And if you really enjoy the
show, please give it a five starrating.
It really helps. You can also follow TV topics on
Instagram at TV under score Topics.
(29:15):
Thanks for listening and stay tuned for more TV topics.
TV Topics is produced by StephenBrzekowski.
ZAP.
Hey, where's the remote? It's time for ATV Topics, where
those who love television discuss the series and
performances that should be on your radar.
Welcome to TV Topics. This is your host, Stephen
Percykowski. Today's guest is an actor who
really does not need an introduction.
He's been grabbing audiences attention since day one.
(00:24):
With a career of work spanning genres in decades, it's tough to
pin down who he will portray next.
He's played everything from iconic vampires, punk rockers,
comic book characters, to his Oscar winning work as Winston
Churchill, and he keeps on delivering.
You can currently find him in his Emmy nominated role as the
unkempt, flatulent and often rude Jackson Lamb on Apple TV
(00:47):
Plus's Slow Horses. It was a pleasure to speak with
him to learn about his work and the TV he enjoys, which is a
very long list. Of course I'm talking about the
incredible Gary Oldman. Hello, this is Gary Oldman, and
today I'm hanging with Stephen Prusakowski on TV Topics.
(01:07):
Welcome to. TV Topics.
Gary, it's an honor to have you on the show to speak with you.
I'm a big fan of your career of work and of slow horses, of
course. So thank you so much.
Yeah. And we'll get going with your
work on slow horses in just a moment.
But first, I'm going to ask you a few TV Topics questions.
Remember, there's no pressure. There is no right or wrong
answers. It's all just a bit of fun.
(01:28):
So looking back over the years, what has your relationship with
television been? Are you ATV, junkie, watches,
everything? Are you very selective?
Do you have go to shows? Well, I'm a huge fan of long
form TV and I have been for years.
I've been really going back. So I've been watching TV and
(01:50):
shows for years. I've watched, I think I'm I've
pretty much watched everything that's out there and I'm
currently just finished Mobland,just finished the narrow road to
the deep N with Jacob Laudy and I'm about to dig into is it the
(02:19):
pit? Yes, that's the.
That's the next thing I'm up on the list.
It's a great series. Did this start when you were
younger? Did you always watch TV?
Yeah, I mean, like we all did, really.
Glued to the box. Yeah.
Everything from, oh, from, you know, Blue Peter, Doctor Who.
(02:47):
Yeah, yeah. Always, always been a fan And.
And, and really we are in the golden age of it now with the,
with the, the streamers often you'll see the best, best
writing and acting and storytelling, cinematography,
(03:11):
direction. You'll see that on our small on
our small screen, more, more than you will now at the at the
at the well, the cinema's becomean event, isn't it?
It's it's blockbuster big CG. It's amazing what you know,
(03:34):
they've they've streamlined it, they've figured out, you know
how many episodes to give. It used to be 23 and there was
so much filler that there like it didn't it didn't grip you as
much. Now you get into the story and
they've kind of perfected it anddecided, OK, this like Slow
Horses is what, 6 episodes usually?
6 episodes. A big fan of Columbo.
(03:55):
I was always fan, loved watching, loved watching Columbo
and but now yeah yeah. Slow Horses is 6 episodes, some
are 8. I think mob lands 10 but we we
(04:21):
feel that 6 is is is good to to take those books.
I think you nail it. Yeah, 4's too short, but 6 feels
a good length. And of course, we, we finish one
season and we take a small breakand then we shoot the next one
(04:43):
hard upon. So you're not as an audience,
you, you're investing your time and energy into characters in a
show and you're not waiting, youknow, a year, 2 years, three
years for it to, for it to return.
So we, we keep it, we keep it sort of coming.
And I mean, here we are talking about Season 4 and it's just
(05:07):
been announced that Season 5 is going to be released in
September, so. We I saw that great, great
timing to speak with you on the big Newsday.
Yeah. So what is a prime time show,
one that you remember really loving?
It doesn't matter if it was goodor bad.
It was your show. You mentioned Doctor Who, you
mentioned Colombo. Is there something that was your
show that your first show? That was prime.
(05:35):
I, I used to watch Cheers. Yeah, that, that seems to be the
one that I, I, I sort of watchedmost of that, that, I mean, back
in the day before we had TiVo and VHS and all of that, You
(06:00):
would organise your time, your week around that show on TV.
I'm sure many, many people rushed home from work to see I
Love Lucy or, or, or Jack Benny,you know, So there, I, I
(06:23):
specific, I very specifically remember watching Brideshead
Revisited and it would air, I think on a Thursday evening.
And it didn't matter what you were doing.
You knew that you had to be hometo see, to, to see the show.
And if you missed it, you couldn't record it.
(06:44):
And that was it. You know, little did we know we
would have to wait 30 years for you to catch up on.
But yeah. It's funny how much I remember
like every day. Like if it's a show that was in
the 80s, early 90s, I remember what day, what time it was on
(07:06):
because you, like you said, you had to be there.
Now we got ADCR, so that changedit a little bit, but still there
were shows that you had to watchbecause not everyone was
recording it and you wanted to be part of the conversation the
next day. I mean, before the, the VHSI
would record the audio and I hada look cassette player, you
(07:31):
remember those little cassette players where the where it would
flip up and you'd put the cassette in, you know, mono
thing. And I would put that near the TV
and record the show sometimes. And but you'd have to sit next
to it because obviously you wouldn't want to pause it
(07:53):
because of the commercial breaks.
But long before. Long before VHS, yeah.
The things we used to do. That today you try and tell them
that they it's horrifying. It's science fiction.
It's like this, this doesn't exist.
May as well be a caveman. How about a show that makes you
(08:15):
laugh most? Is there one that you put on for
a laugh or pick me up? One that really tickles the
funny bone. Well, Cheers was fun, was a very
well written show, very funny show.
(08:38):
Well, you're I think that there was also that golden age.
I mean, we're in a new era of television, but there was a
golden age that now you can appreciate on YouTube.
I mean, Lucille Ball was very funny.
(09:00):
I loved the the thing that makesme really laugh that I, that I
check in on occasionally are theDean Martin roasts.
They're very, very funny. Yeah, what what a line of of
comedians you had there. Not just comedians, but
entertainers. Yeah, and politicians.
(09:21):
And, well, and that I sort of go.
I go back to what do I find myself dipping into?
I'll watch anything with Fred Astaire dancing, the Dean
Martin, the sort of Brat Pack, the Marx Brothers.
(09:50):
Yeah, we have all of that now. You know, back in the day, you
would try to remember who, who some someone was.
You know, you're trying to remember an actor or the name of
the film and, and and and and then love would mention it at
(10:13):
dinner and you're trying to think of that actor and you're
in line of weight going what then what was that guy?
What what, what film was in whatthe what was the name of that
film? Now you just now, now you just
you, you Google or you get the name of the actor and then you
look up the films. It's a whole different.
(10:35):
But I do like dipping back in. I like, I like going back to a
different era. And Speaking of different era,
is there ATV character from any era, any genre for any reason
that you would have liked to have the chance to have played?
A character that I would have like to have.
Played ATV. Character doesn't matter.
(10:58):
If like you know, if you were too young at the time or you
know the the character is younger than you are at at this
age, is there just some character that would have been
great to have had that chance? Well, as I said, well, I always
like Colombo and I kind of my dirty Mack in Slow Horses.
(11:21):
I have two. I don't obviously have, I don't
have a huge change of clothes, but I go from my, I have my
winter coat. Lamb has the winter coat and
then he goes to the summer coat,which is which is Mac, which is
my nod. It's my nod to Peter Falk.
(11:45):
That's great. I didn't know that.
So let's get into to to lamb a little bit.
He's he's kind of like an oyster.
He's got this abrasive exterior,He's briny, he's kind of off
putting. But underneath there's this kind
of a Pearl of brilliance that often appears for your
performance. How do you balance that rough
exterior with what lies beneath?Well, a great deal of it is on
(12:07):
the page that that characteristic that that you're
talking about is very much the DNA in the book.
(12:27):
The creation of Lamb is obviously I give it movement
and, and A and A and a voice and, and, and an attitude.
But the real creation of Lamb isit's Mick Herrands.
(12:54):
How I play that I don't know. It's instinct.
It it, it's you're, you're givena a set of and then you you do
the work and then you do the work in in there's prep, but you
(13:19):
also you sort of do the work in the moment, reacting in the
scene to the other, to the otherpeople.
Yes, there's I don't know if it's softness, but there's
there's a loyalty there to to his slow horses.
(13:47):
He berates them and bullies themand humiliates them and yet and
but would take a bullet for them.
But he doesn't. He doesn't often reveal.
He he he doesn't often reveal that that side of him.
(14:10):
Is it at the end? I'm trying to think, is it at
the end of season 4 where he meets River in the pub?
Yes, and in the finale last moments.
That's his way of being nice. Well, that's the thing.
(14:32):
You you sit with him and you say, you know, do it what I want
to can can you see past that? Is there something, you know,
there's something beside, you know, buried inside of him and
there is a certain amount of softness, but at the same time,
you also know there's some kind of pain and secrets that he's
hiding. So it's like what?
How much leeway do you give thisguy when he's constantly kind of
(14:57):
like tearing you down and and can never just do something
without some sarcasm or without some barbs attached?
How do I play it? You mean no?
No, I'm just saying in general it's the I find it as it's a so
such an interesting character because when you watch that you
don't know how to read him because he does conceal so much.
Yeah, as each season goes on as well as the books, as Mick
(15:20):
continues to write these books and the seasons go on, there's
more layers of the Onion revealed.
There's things I know about Jax and Lamb now that I didn't know
going in, but it's, yeah, he's developed, obviously.
(15:43):
He despises the sort of bureaucratic, the whole
bureaucracy of of, of the main hub.
And I mean, so that's that that the sarcasm and and the distaste
(16:12):
for it is very much is very muchthere on the surface, but it's
spy craft. I think it's it's like a almost
like a defence mechanism. It's using it in a way to put
(16:33):
you on the back foot like you'llnever ever quite get the measure
of it. I mean, at the very beginning of
season 4 flight, since she's, you know, got his number and
even says, even says to Tavana, Oh, I've, I know men like that.
(16:58):
I've worked with them like that.And Tavana says, no, no, you
haven't. So he's always keeping people
sort of second guessing. So I think he uses it as as as
much as there are places that hepersonally necessarily doesn't
want to go to and has buried them.
(17:25):
He uses it to his advance. He uses that that sarcasm and
that sort of abrasive cantankerousness as a sort of as
craft. It's amazing.
It's amazing to watch. He's a complex character who,
(17:46):
you know, you look at his exterior and you think one
thing, but then with every line and with every episode, like you
said, a little bit more of that onions peeled back and we're
finding out, you know, who he is, even though it's very
reluctant or almost, you know, very secretive.
I want to get into his, his flatulence because it's kind of
a character of his own. And you really seem to lean into
(18:07):
the crude humor. Do you share the joy of the fans
as you squeeze out this aspect of your performance, or does it
kind of stink for you? I enjoy it.
It's again it, it's to it's to put people off the scent.
(18:37):
He uses it sort of as another it's another device.
It's another sort of trick that he has.
He happens to be very flatulent anyway.
I mean, his diet and he's drinking and and smoking isn't
you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend the sort of Jackson
(18:59):
lamb way of life, but it it is fun.
It's it's fun to play. I yeah.
And people do. I mean, you never see, there's a
scene, you never see a scene of like James Bond where you hit
the toilet flush and then he comes out of the bathroom.
(19:23):
It's, you know, and we wouldn't accept it.
We wouldn't. We wouldn't accept it.
But. But here in this world, we, we
will accept people on the toilet.
Yeah, I think that's part of theappeal.
Even though they're sponsors, they have the same stresses, the
(19:48):
problems in the marriage and therelationship.
And they've got to pick up the kids from school and they've got
a mortgage to pay, and they've got to go, you know, and those
on a lower salary who are not the taverners of this world, you
know, have to go to the launderette.
I I think that's part also part of its appeal that these are, is
(20:10):
sort of it people that we can, the audience can relate to
rather than that world of, you know, tuxedos and casinos and
all of that, you know, which is fun.
Yeah, it's a lot of fun that thefirst episode I watched, I
didn't know the character, I just knew you were in it.
And I'm like, OK, I'll give it ashot.
So I watch it and then there's afart gag and I'm like, wait a
(20:33):
second, I didn't expect that. And it completely, I'm like,
whatever everything I expected out the window and suddenly
you're watching it with a different, I don't know, like a
different sort of anticipation of what what you're in for in
each episode. Yeah, it sort of begins kind of
like a bit like The Bourne Identity with this sort of bomb
threat at the airport. Very high tech.
(20:59):
And then it cuts to Slough Houseand I wake myself up with a
fart. Really.
Yeah. It it knocks you off a bit.
You think, oh, what am I watching?
And it it was it's the best entrance, character entrance.
(21:26):
An introduction to a character Ithink I've ever had.
I mean, opening the opening the door to Harker as Dracula is
probably it's up there, but it'sa great introduction to.
If Jackson Lamb invited you to apub for a pint, would you go?
(21:49):
Oh, yeah, you'd have to take a sort of a joy in just being
insulted when you, I mean, you could probably hand, I could
probably handle that for a couple of hours with Jackson
(22:10):
Lamb. You've got to get him a little
tipsy and maybe get him talking about.
I'd want to hear a story from Cold War.
Yeah, as. Long as you know that what you
have to tolerate, you can tolerate it.
(22:32):
It's like if it if you just met him in the in the in the wild,
maybe a much different experience, but going in and
knowing who you're you're up against.
Like going to the OR something, you know, you know what you're
in for, you know what you're up against.
Yeah, so we'll close up a couplemore TV topics and and get you
on your way. If there's one TV death that you
would stop anyone for any reason, which one would it be
(22:56):
and why? ATV Death?
Oh, I'd forgotten. Yeah.
ATV death would be the characterMin, who was a slow horse and I
(23:17):
think in season 2 he gets killedby the Russians and we were
desperately sad to see him go, not just as a character but also
Justin as as an actor. We really loved having him on
(23:39):
the set and loved being around. I thought that was very sad to
see Min go. Of course, it gives Louisa
something to play in the next season and he's and he's not
shy, is he, of killing people off McCarron?
(23:59):
But we've really got to like men.
So that would be that's that would be ATV death.
That's that's a good one. There's a lot of great deaths on
the show, not terrible deaths onthe show that really hit you
hard. I only have a little more time
left, so I want to hop around toa couple more questions, and I
got a couple big ones. So the greatest moment in TV
(24:22):
history according to Gary Oldman.
Objectively and not, I'm sorry, not objectively, subjectively.
It's the moment, the moment thatthat that resonates with you.
It's a tough one on the spot. Yeah.
I'm thinking and not to eat up your time.
It's that's a hard one. Can I circle back to that one?
(24:49):
Sure, there's another one, maybenot as hard, but again, four TV
shows that make up your Mount Rushmore.
Oh, what? Yeah, sorry.
I'm getting prompted here by my wife.
I her memory is better than mine.
Yeah. Steven Soderbergh's The Knick.
I loved The Knick, so desperately wanted it to to come
(25:10):
back. Yeah, great show.
Say again, yes, I'd forgotten Studio 60.
Oh wait, that sounds familiar. It was.
It was the air, air, air and Sorkin.
Oh, Sorkin, yes. And it had the 1 and it had, I
(25:30):
think it was just the one seasonand I don't know why they took
it off the air. The West Wing would be another.
Did you say 5 or 4? 4 Is Colombo up there?
Well, Colombo, yeah. What was that one you were with
spring there? Yeah.
(25:52):
Are you familiar with a a Canadian TV show called Slings
and Arrows? No, I don't know it.
That was that's about 20 years back now.
And it was about, it was a show about a series about theatre
company. Very, very funny and very, very
well done. But your list, I could then go
(26:19):
on. The Naked Civil Servant,
Brideshead Revisited. You know, the list could go on
and on, but that's my fall all. Right.
Well, when the when the sculptorcomes, you have to make a
decision. So you have some.
Time. All right.
I'll close out with this last one.
(26:39):
If you have a magic door, one that allowed you to access any
TV show and live in it so you get to pop in whenever you want
as if it's real life, you get togo in, enjoy that world, and
leave whenever you want. Which show would it be?
Can't. Hear yeah, TV would be would be
Mad Men to walk into the world of Mad Men and maybe have a
(27:04):
martini with Don Draper. These are good questions, but
they get you thinking and my memories.
It's not thinking. It's not one of my strong points
right now. You've had some great answers.
I, I, I'll, I'll accept them all.
I don't like to give them an advance because then you get
people, you know, coming with prepared answers.
(27:25):
So it's best, you know, Yeah, That moment of inspiration.
People come up with things from 30 years ago, like, oh, wait a
minute, I and it starts stirringthe brain instead of, you know,
because we, we grew up without VCRS, we grew up without
YouTube. And that we, we have that stuff
stored. You just have to access it.
Yeah, that's great, Great, greatshows.
Oh, yeah. Peter Cook, Dudley Moore.
(27:48):
Then you start, then you start getting into the world of, you
know, Monty Python. That was the other thing that
you always came to watch, no matter what you were doing.
If I was out playing soccer in the street or the Monty Python,
anything Peter Sellers did, anything Peter Sellers did, I
(28:13):
think he was an absolute marvel,a phenom.
Sellers better than Olivier? Big statement there, but I might
just have to agree. I do have to wrap.
Thank you so much for your time.Thank you for all your work over
over the years. I mean, everyone loves your
stuff. Everyone.
Sorry I have to throw that in there.
(28:34):
One of my favorite line deliveries of all time.
But really, I've always appreciated your work to the
utmost degree. But I watched this series and I
was like, my God, I like this guy even more.
You're you. What you do is just incredible.
So thank you so much and and have a great day.
And you have a good day. Thank you to Gary Oldman for
being such an incredible guest on TV Topics.
(28:54):
Be sure to watch Gary's work on Slow Horses streaming on Apple
TV. Plus, keep tuning into TV Topics
and be sure to subscribe on Spotify or Apple Podcast or
wherever you find your podcast. And if you really enjoy the
show, please give it a five starrating.
It really helps. You can also follow TV topics on
Instagram at TV under score Topics.
(29:15):
Thanks for listening and stay tuned for more TV topics.
TV Topics is produced by StephenBrzekowski.
ZAP.
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