June 13, 2024 • 49 mins
ANNA SAWAI of FX's 'Shōgun' Discusses Lady Mariko and talks some TV Topics with host Steven Prusakowski. The delightful conversation covers an array of topics from The shows she watched as a kid to which of the'Friends' characters she sees herself as. Of course, we speak at length about her Emmy-nominated work as Mariko on the epic FX Series "Shōgun".
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Hey, where's the remote? It's time for TV Topics, where
those who love television discuss the series and
performances that should be on your radar.
Welcome back to TV Topics. I'm your host Steven
Persikowski. Hanging out today on the TV
Topics couch is an actress who had a hard knock life in the
Nippon TV version of Annie. She also had to deal with
(00:25):
Godzilla's Breath and other monstrosities in Monarch Legacy
of Monsters, she played Naomi inthe Apple TV Plus highly
acclaimed series Pachinko, and she inspired and captured hearts
as Lady Medico in F XS epic miniseries Shogun.
Of course, I'm talking about thegreat Anna Sawai.
(00:47):
Hello, I'm Anna Sawai and today I'm hanging out with Steven
Prasakowski on TV Topics. Thank you for joining me today,
Anna. We're going to get into your
work on Shogun in just a few, but first let's talk some TV
topics. Remember, there's no pressure,
there's no right or wrong answers.
It's just a bit of fun. So looking back over the years,
what has been your relationship with TV?
(01:08):
Were you like ATV Junkie, you watched everything?
Were you very selective? I feel like I was a little
selective, you know, If I heard there were certain shows that
were amazing, I would TuneIn. But if I watched one episode
that didn't really click, then Iwould tune out.
So I've been picky. And you have a much more worldly
(01:32):
perspective. You, you know, we're all over
the globe. So what type of shows did you
watch? Did it change with the location?
I think I was always leaning towards like Western produced
shows and films. I remember like growing up
watching. I grew up watching the Disney
Channel. Of course.
(01:53):
And and then I was watching friends and things that were a
little bit more for adults as well.
And now I'm just loving things like The Bear, The Last of Us,
you know, like just very elevated, like good stories.
Like I yeah, I'm always watchingWestern ones.
(02:14):
Excellent. We watch a lot in common.
What primetime show is is the one that you remember first
really loving? Like the first one that really
connected with you? Oh, what is a prime time show?
Like a mainstream. Friends would be or you know,
like anything like the must see TV or you know, now it's
essentially the bear or anythingthat's anything else for Emmys.
(02:36):
Well, I think that, yeah, the first one would probably be
friends, Yeah. And I still watch it to this
day. It's amazing how like Universal
that show is that it seems like everybody I speak with friends
gets dropped in. Everybody has a connection and
and and young and old. You know, my daughters, you
know, I'm I'm much older than them, obviously, and I watched
(02:58):
it and you know, my my nieces who are like kind of between US
and this like generational. It gets passed on and one to the
next. Yeah, I mean, like you can watch
it any time of the day as well, when you're happy, when you're
tired, when you're sad, you know, And I think that the
relationships that they have are, they feel quite real.
So yeah, I loved and I still love friends.
(03:21):
And besides friends, is there one show that makes you laugh
most? I don't know, hold on, because
Friends is very, very funny. What is the show that makes me
laugh a lot? I can't think of anything at the
moment. Do you have any things that any
shows that you can bring up? I mean, I like what we do in the
(03:44):
shadows. Curvy enthusiasm, those two that
stand out. What we do in the shadows is so
funny. Yeah, that is one that I love.
And also the movie. Have you seen the movie?
Oh, yes, yeah. Oh my God, I loved it.
It's amazing how like, I didn't think they would be able to take
that movie and turn into a show and and actually pull it off.
(04:06):
And they not only pulled it off,they've expanded on it so much.
It's just a, it's, I mean, I think line for line is one of
the funniest shows on TV becauseevery move of the camera, every
facial reaction, every line is comedy.
There's nothing there that's just like, not there setting up
a joke or or landing it. Yeah, I mean, I can't even
imagine how it would be to shoota comedy like I I don't see
(04:29):
myself as good in that genre, but it must be so much fun and
like, also hard because, like, you're laughing at each other
all the time. You got to try it out.
Maybe. And is there one TV character
that you connect with most? Well, well, you know what?
There's one character. So in Friends, I keep going back
to it because it's just so iconic.
(04:50):
My friends and I always talk about like who we would be.
And everyone is like, you're Monica.
So I, I always was like, OK, that's definitely something that
I would do. I would like open the cabinets.
I would organize everything. I would react the same way that
she's reacting in certain scenes.
And so, yeah, she was someone that I would I saw myself in.
(05:12):
That's funny. I, I mean, I think everyone's
done that too. I I was Ross.
Oh, you were. I love that.
So we would be siblings. Yes, siblings and neighbors.
And on the opposite end of the spectrum from laughing.
Are you a crier? Yes, I get like, I'm either
very, very happy or out of nowhere I'm like crying.
(05:35):
The other day I went into my agent's office and it was
supposed to be like a fun meeting and everyone was, you
know, happy to kind of meet me or see me after a long time.
And I just, like, started bawling my eyes out.
It's so weird. I can't control it.
What? What was it?
Was it just like the the moment with with the series and what's
going on in your life or like hopefully something here?
(05:57):
Well, they were like, how are you?
And I think I just started crying, 'cause like, you know,
with all of what's happening with Shogun and how I'm feeling,
you know, it's sometimes good and sometimes bad.
But like, it was just a lot of like, emotions in the moment.
And yeah, it was out of nowhere.And everyone was like, what the,
what is happening right now? Are you OK?
(06:18):
And I was like, no, I'm not. He's quitting the business.
Oh no. Is there one show that made you
cry most recently? Or one show that like will
consistently make you cry that you watch.
Recently, I feel like I, I really, really cried watching
The Last of Us. Yeah, it was, it was so like
towards the end, you know, when everything starts to get
(06:38):
revealed and you're you're seeing Bella Ramsey is so
amazing. Oh my gosh, yeah.
That one really hit me hard. What's another one we're talking
about? Shows specifically.
T anything TV, but I mean it canbe anything.
Yeah, no, The Last of Us. Yeah, that that one hit me
(07:01):
several times the the opening asa father, I I saw my daughter in
that character. And then even though I knew it
was coming, I played the game, it still, it crushed me.
I watched it probably I'm getting emotional now.
I've watched it several times and I just see my daughters and
I'm like, Oh my gosh. And it really that's what I'm
(07:21):
like with. That's why I love TV is like to
connect in in so many different ways.
Right. And as a game player, because
you know you have such high expectations when these things
are being made, how did you feelwatching it?
I mean, I mean, I think it was better than the game.
Really. Yeah, I mean, they, they went in
different places, they expanded some of the characters.
(07:43):
You know what? You also, right now, I don't
know what it is about you, but you're giving Pedro Pascal.
Have you ever got that? No, I've not really.
I've heard the actor from the 300.
What's his name? Oh, the 300, Gerald, Is that
Gerald Butler? Yes, yes.
(08:04):
Nice. I was actually getting a
physical and the nurse was like,all right, let's do your weight.
And she's like, you are so Gerard Butler.
And I was like, I'd never heard that before.
And then she's like, take your shirt off.
I got to see. I'm like, no, let's keep the
illusion. They're all amazing actors.
But yes, Nick Offerman and MarieBartlett from the The Last of Us
(08:26):
their their episode I thought was something that wasn't in the
in the game and just changed theway you saw the like the, the
this crazy pandemic or whatever you'd want to call it and made
it more human and not like a survival story, but just, you
know, a small romance. Yeah, I love that episode too.
(08:47):
It's some of the best TV I've seen in a while.
So one more and then we'll get into Shogun.
Is there ATV show that you watchthat would surprise people to be
a like a guilty pleasure or one that you maybe let you feel like
you're the only one watching andno one's talking about?
Oh, I feel like I whenever I watch things, I need to know
(09:08):
that it's like worth my time. So I don't know if there's
anything that I'm watching that people aren't talking about.
Let me see. I don't know.
I can't think of anything. I you know what?
People don't know that. But I haven't done this
recently. But whenever I'm doing something
(09:30):
very, very heavy, like when I'm doing Shogun, maybe I did it
like I would go home and I wouldjust want sound in the
background. I'm not like sitting down and
focusing on the TV. I'll just play a reality TV show
you. Have one to go to steady thing.
What's the the sunset? The real TV show.
(09:52):
Yes, yes, yes. What's that one?
Selling Sunset. There you go.
There you go. Yes.
I have probably played all of their seasons and most of the
time I can't remember what was happening because I'm not like
sitting down, but it's very entertaining.
Yeah, I mean, sometimes it's good just to you can tune out.
(10:13):
You don't have to commit, you don't have to follow the
emotional journey. You can just kind of like, all
right, watch it. It's like a quick meal.
Like fast. Food.
Exactly. Yeah.
And also, like, the houses are so beautiful.
Yeah. Yeah, I, I, I go to like a
survivor. I wouldn't call it a guilty
pleasure, but you know, go aheadand watch it with my daughters
and we get all we discuss and breakdown who's best, who hits
(10:35):
the best game and all that. And who we you know, who we
don't like, who we, who our favourites are and we're always
disappointed who wins. So it's.
So we'll get back to the TV topics in just a few, but let's
start talking about your brilliant series that has
everyone talking Shogun. But actually, I'm sorry, we can
step back just a little bit, butwhat drew you to act in like,
(10:56):
I'm curious what took you from II know that you you were Annie
on TV and the Fast and the Furious franchise, Monarch
pachinko and even a whole lot ofsinging.
Well, in Annie, I had so much fun, but I still wanted to
become a singer. So I joined a music agency slash
label in Japan and they basically kind of trained me in
(11:19):
singing, dancing. They gave me a couple acting
lessons. You know, it's, it's very
different from what you guys have in the US, but acting
lessons, tap lessons, walking lessons, everything that you can
think about. I probably like tried.
And then they were, we had a notice where they were looking
for a Japanese girl around maybelike 15 years old who could
(11:43):
speak English. And there weren't a lot of
people that could speak English fluently and wanted to act.
And so I went into the audition and I got very lucky.
And they flew me to Berlin to shoot a movie called Ninja
Assassin with James Mateague, who also did FIFA Vendetta.
And the producers, the Wachowskibrothers, now sisters, also
(12:04):
produced it. So I got there and I was like,
Oh my gosh, this is so much fun.Like it's a, it was completely
different from, you know, being part of Annie, which was more
like a kids musical. And I was like, this might be
the thing that I really, really want to do.
Like I can see myself enjoying it and doing it.
And people were like, you're doing great.
(12:26):
So I, you know, as a 15 year old, I think I was like, OK,
this is my new passion. I got back to Japan and told my
team that this was what I reallywanted to focus on.
And they were like, OK, but we are more geared towards music.
So let's just have you kind of stay for the music and and then
(12:48):
so I couldn't pursue acting for a very long time.
And, you know, I was in a contract.
I couldn't really get out of it.So at the end of 2018, that was
like the earliest time that I could leave the group.
That's when I was like, OK, I'm going to start from zero.
I'm going to quit everything. I don't know how I'm going to
(13:08):
make it, but something within mewas like telling me you got to
do this. So I left and then maybe like
two months afterwards my now manager contacted me.
Wow, and thank God you did you know with with, you know, not
just this series with Monarch and and other work you've done.
(13:28):
It's it's amazing. You know, it's like to have the
guts to take something that you can do and you, you know, you
already know it's working and say, Hey, I'm going to follow
that dream. Is is really inspiring.
Thank you. I think when I was going through
that, I realized how much courage you need to like quit
something and I didn't notice that I, I felt like prior to
(13:51):
that experience, starting something was like a big
challenge, but leaving somethingthat you've done for so long is
like another thing. Very, very true.
It's kind of reminds me of your character a little bit.
So the the story told in Shogun is really, it's captivating.
It's everything that everyone's been saying It's I was hoping to
(14:14):
like it by the first end of the first episode.
I was like, give more. I need to see more.
I'm wondering what was your reaction like when you first
read that script, when you first, you know, got to like
really dive into it? I, I don't know when I first
read the script that I had Mariko's whole arc, like her
(14:34):
journey and how her story ends. So I remember like watch reading
the first couple of episodes andjust being like, this is this
seems very big. And I wasn't really sure how
people were going to be able to make it outside of Japan because
it's so specific and you really need to kind of rely on the
(14:54):
Japanese specialists and supervisors that that have done
this for years. So I remember having a little
bit of hesitation, but knowing that Hero was going to be
producing it and he had a very like good team in Japan that I
knew were flying over to Vancouver.
I was like, OK, it's going to work.
(15:15):
But it feels like this could either be very, very huge and
amazing or we can do a terrible attempt.
So I'm so happy that it it endedup being the the better.
Amazing epic. Yeah, the former one.
Yes, for sure that and what elselike drew you to it?
(15:37):
Why did you say I have to do this role?
I, I had a very good meeting with Justin Marks or showrunner,
and he basically kind of explained why he wanted to adopt
it in his version. And, you know, learning that he
like, it just felt like he had so much respect for the Japanese
culture and he wanted to do it right.
(15:59):
And, you know, even just feelingthat way, I felt was like a big
step forward because a lot of times, like people just kind of
want to do it their way. And they're not like that
focused on the details, but it'sthe details that really matter.
And I also love that he wanted to share the Japanese role,
characters, perspectives with the audience and have it be a
(16:21):
little bit more like immersive so that we're not like
distancing the viewers from the Japanese people.
And also with Rachel involved, she's half Japanese.
And she, I knew when I talked toher that she carried Madiko like
(16:42):
she was her own mother. And Madiko's journey is just so
it's so special because she's also based on Hosokawa Karasha
Song, who lived in 1600. And I wanted to do it right.
Like, I wanted to give her the respect that I could.
(17:02):
And I knew that within medical, we would see so much of like,
the suffocation that Japanese women have been through and the
the struggles that I still see within our women today.
So yeah, I was like, this is something that needs to be told
to the world. That's wonderful.
I one of my favorite parts of the series, or one, you know,
(17:25):
qualities of the series is how the small moments are so
immersive, so like, you know, you just get so wrapped up in
them that you know, you know, between America and and and
Blackthorne, I literally forgot that there's like this impending
threat and of war and doom surrounding them.
And then when you dive in even further, you see that your
(17:47):
character is inflicted, you know, on the outside, there's
this version of her that you people see, but there's much
more. And the concept of the eightfold
fence, which helps viewers and understand that to some amount.
But you know how she internalizes that pain before
you know what's going on, you see it in your eyes.
How challenging has it been to to create this layered and in
(18:08):
complex character? I think that just doing my
research on the character really, you know, built her
before we began, but also as we shot, like living in her shoes
for for 10 months, like it was starting, her story was starting
to affect me personally. And maybe the things that I was
(18:29):
feeling as an actor. In certain scenes, I would feel
stuck because I felt like I needed to express more.
I needed my emotions to be more visible to the camera.
But then she's in front of her husband, so she has to keep it
within herself. And like, the entrapment that I
was feeling maybe felt so real that I didn't really have to try
(18:53):
too much. Rachel Kondo played such a huge
part in bringing her to life. And she shared this beautiful
story about her grandmother to me.
And that was a time that I was trying to figure out, like, how
is she able to be Catholic and also a samurai?
Because there is like very on opposite sides and learning
(19:18):
about her grandmother really helped me kind of make make that
part of medical real. And I wasn't really confused
about it anymore. It was like, OK, so when she she
was about to give up on life, some someone, someone held their
hand out and that happened to bea Catholic priest.
(19:38):
So it could have been anything. But that's what saved her and
that's why she hangs on to it. And so, you know, little things
like that really helped me just bring her to life.
And I don't know, does that answer the question?
I was just curious how your relationship with the character
(20:01):
changed as you receive more material.
Like as you got more scripts andread deeper into who she was,
did that evolve? And did you read the book
beforehand or was your first exposure?
With this series. Before we started shooting, I
did read the book and it, it took a long time to get to
(20:22):
Micah's story, but it really informed me of like what we were
basing her on. But also I wanted to focus on
the scripts that we had just because like, we're not taking
everything from the book. And there were things that we
were tweaking and, you know, it was written by James Clavell.
But this time I was going to, I wanted to approach it from like
(20:44):
a Japanese woman's point of viewbecause that could be very
different. And like, it kind of goes back
to what we were talking about prior to this.
But like this, the suffering that she has, I think it was
easy to channel because I still feel like Japan is way behind
when it comes to like equal equality for women.
(21:07):
It's something that I've seen inso many people in Japan, you
know, and so it just, it's unfortunate that I can like,
really relate to her in that way.
But but yeah, I wanted to focus on that.
So I, I talked to Rachel and Callan and Erico and, you know,
(21:27):
the women around me that I felt knew what it feels like to be in
that position. During the later parts of the
series, Medico's past take some unexpected turns, and soon she's
begging to end her life, which was really powerful and
unsettling. And I, you know, did not see I,
(21:49):
I guess I could see, you know, the pain, but I thought, no,
she's gonna push through. And then to see that was was
just just very, very emotional moment.
What drives her to those extremes?
Rice, idiot. Rice, right?
Yes. Well, in episode 9, we're
talking about episode 9 or priorto 8080.
(22:14):
OK, Yeah, yeah. So then, OK, I believe that
medical is just so lost in that moment.
Like, she sees that she's not being able to fulfil her duties
and she is being questioned as well.
And it seems that she's not useful.
And I think that, you know, the whole thing that she's looking
(22:36):
for is like serving her Lord. But if she's unable to do that,
even when she's, you know, trying to like be an interpreter
and like do all her roles, like she feels that maybe maybe she's
better off like just committing suicide.
(22:57):
And so I think it's just that moment of like, I, I'm so sorry,
like, I'm unable to do this for you.
You should just release me from this role.
But then, you know, she realizesthat, no, like the the Lord is
asking for, for her to kind of the Lord does see that she can
do so much more and he needs her.
(23:19):
So she continues on. But I think for a moment there,
like she gets lost. But you know, it's, it's all
like the, the familial and the cultural and the religious stuff
all kind of combined and conflicting one another and not
being able to balance all three elements in the way that she
(23:40):
wishes she could. Really enjoyed.
It is at the end of eight, I believe, where her husband
decides he wants to kind of change the setup.
And she's like, no, not today, not ever.
You know, to have that moment that that powerful moment to
stand up and and be herself. Yeah, I think people kind of
(24:00):
forget 'cause, you know, like the words that she does speak is
very harsh, but he is very abusive.
Like it's not the the scene thatwe see.
And is it episode 5? That's not the first time that
he's hit her. And he's also abusive to the
Sun. And, and so I think she's just
(24:22):
like, wow, like you really don'tunderstand.
And like for someone who doesn'tunderstand, she has to like,
tell them, tell them clearly that that's not the way that
things are going to go. Also, the death that he's asking
for serves no purpose. And she is willing to make sure
that if she is dying like she wants to do it for a greater
(24:44):
cause. There's so much of this series
that creeps up on you that you're like, OK, there's twists,
there's betrayals, there's all these moments and like most TV
shows play it safe and or seriesand this does not.
It's like endlessly taking risks, which is makes the
experience all that much. Better I know.
And also, I find it so funny that like every episode that
(25:04):
comes out, like people are like,oh, we hate this character now.
Actually, no, we hate this one because like, things are like
changing all the time. It's so funny how people are
reacting to it. Yeah, there's certain characters
too that you like. I want to like this character,
but every time I think we're he's, you know, kind of turned
the corner. He shows he's a jerk again.
(25:25):
It's like I'm wondering where we're going to stay, where I'll
stand on on all of them after, you know, once this all
concludes. 2 episodes to find out.
Beyond the emotional demand, there were physical demands.
Can you talk about, you know, your spear work and, and other
things that went into, you know,bring this role to screen?
Yeah, I mean, I had to learn a lot.
(25:45):
Not just like the spear stuff. It was like just how to walk and
how to sit and how to hold a teacup and how to bring it to
your mouth. Like everything was new to me.
So that kind of physicality wentin the the sphere work was a
little bit more familiar to me because I had done a little bit
(26:05):
of training prior to this show. And then we had so much training
at like the boot camp as well. And that that stuff was very,
very fun for me. But I think the more subtle
stuff like staying in a kimono for hours and hours a day and
doing that for 10 months in the rain in Vancouver, like it was a
(26:29):
lot. And I was pretty happy when I
got to take it off. Like, it's such a beautiful
garment, but like, it's quite heavy too.
How? Much do you think it weighs?
I have no idea actually. That's a good question.
I don't know how much it weighs,but I can tell you that I had
like probably 7 layers of clothing, but also it wasn't
(26:49):
just seven because like you would wrap a very long sloth
around you. So that would end up being like
2 layers for one piece. So yeah, it was a lot.
But then there's also like the hakama that we wear, which is
very comfortable compared to thekimonos.
And when you see me riding a horse, I was wearing a hakama.
(27:12):
So I loved every scene that you see me wearing one of those pant
looks. That must affect your posture
and everything too. So is it?
Was it made where you can relax or was it made, you know, was it
truly traditional? I think they yeah, they tried to
make it a little less restrictive, like they would put
(27:32):
just like a collar for one layer.
But still I was wearing, you know, seven and yeah, it was not
comfortable. Like I can't I can't sugarcoat
it. I remember like for emotional
scenes or like certain days of the week, I would be like, can
you just wrap it around a littlelooser so that I have a little
(27:53):
bit more space so that I can tryto slouch a little bit and.
People are like, oh, that must be Friday.
She's kind of looking sloppy today.
She's just let me loose. Dress down, dress down Fridays.
What does it mean to you knowingthat through your work it's not
only entertained so many people,but you're probably inspiring a
(28:15):
lot of people as well, you know,has your family reacted or
friends you know and to what they've seen?
Yeah, I feel like a lot of my, well, my mom's always just, you
know, like, take care of yourself, I hope.
Like, you know, you're just having fun, all that stuff.
But my friends have been like, you didn't tell me it was going
to be this big. And I'm like, we didn't know.
(28:36):
Like we, we really had no idea that people were going to be
talking about it in the way theyare right now.
So it's been so lovely, Yeah. And all my family members are
very, very happy for me. So I'm just happy that, you know
what? We loved doing something that
meant so much to us is being received in this way.
(29:02):
And do you think it's starting conversations that you'd like it
to start? I think so.
I mean, I don't know what every single person is saying about
the show. I'm sure that some people are
like, it's, you know, it's not my cup of tea, but.
Some people are broken no matterwhat you give them that they're
going to. Yeah, you can't please everyone,
but I think that for the most part, people are very invested
(29:24):
in it and like they're showing alot of interest in in our
culture. Like they're looking up after
the tea ceremony scene. I saw comments being like, I had
to look it up. They they're doing this type
called and like just, you know, the details that people are like
paying attention to. It's so lovely.
And I feel like once something like this happens, like it'll
(29:47):
really open doors for more Japanese storytelling.
So that's like the biggest thing.
That's great, and when you have put so much into a role like
this, will it forever be a part of you?
Do you think it's changed I. Think so, Yes.
I feel like I have let Marie go go, especially yesterday.
(30:12):
Is this coming out soon? No, no, let me not say
yesterday, but especially with the release of episode nine, I
was like, OK, this is like my final let go moment.
And it's so funny because I was talking to some of the people
who created the show and we weretalking about how the sakura
(30:32):
petals are now starting to fall.And it's so miracle of her to,
you know, to be released at thistime.
Sorry, I'm I'm getting lost. What was your question?
Just being part of you and and the the continuing like.
Yes, so I have let her go, but Ithink that I'll always carry it,
(30:56):
carry this whole show within myself just because it meant so
much and it really taught me a lot about myself, about what I
want to do and the people that Iwant to work with.
Like this truly was like a dreamteam and the story was amazing
and the character is just so heartbreaking and so important
(31:16):
to me and so she'll always be a part of me.
That's awesome. I, I mean, I think it's great
that to experience something like this so young, so the bar
is set so high that you are going to pursue bigger and, and
things that, that match your standards and create higher
standards for other people goingforward through the projects you
(31:37):
take on. And, and it's, it's, it's great
when something, when good wins, you know, and like you OK, we
did something that's better thannot just like a simple
entertainment and not at the expense of our like any kind of
moral or, you know, no compromise.
It's just go out there and make the best thing and feel pride in
in what you've done. Yeah, I feel so lucky that I I
was able to to be part of such an epic, amazing, loved show, to
(32:03):
work with these amazing people and to give my version of my
equal to the world. Well, thank you.
Thank you for it. Thank you.
Hello again. Hi, it's so nice to see you
again. Time for our weekly meeting.
(32:24):
All right, when we finished, youknow, I had only watched up the
episode 8. So later that I think it was
that evening, I watched 9. And you should have warned me
about that. I, I wasn't ready.
It was completely devastating. And I'm like, this is an
incomplete conversation. I, I need to speak to you again.
So thank you for taking the time, right?
(32:46):
Of course so. My question what was it like for
you watching that episode? Because I know by the reaction,
you know my reaction and the reactions online it, it hit a
lot of people hard. What was it like for you to
watch I. Feel like watching it, even
though when we were shooting it,it was very liberating to
finally be able to just say certain things and actually
(33:10):
physically do things. You know, I, I felt very good
shooting that episode, but watching it made me feel very
emotional because of every like knowing her journey and
sometimes remembering how I feltin certain scenes and knowing
(33:30):
where Marico was going. Like it's just like such a
powerful arc. And it was just a lot of mixed
emotions from feeling good aboutthe character and feeling sad
for the character, feeling frustrated because of playing
(33:52):
the character. And like, I can't, I can't put
it into like one sentence that Iwas feeling.
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a lot. It's a lot to process.
And and then you get the whole next episode, which I'll get
into shortly, but which makes those feelings even more complex
because I don't think it's, you know, it's very much Shades of
Grey. But also you brought up a story
(34:14):
that Rachel Condo had had sharedwith you and you you never
really got into it. We're running short on time, but
I was wondering if you could share a little why it helped you
understand your character better.
Well, I don't know how much I can get into it just because it
is about her family. I mean, the whole thing for me
going approaching her was that Mariko is Catholic and she is
(34:36):
Japanese. She's very loyal to her Lord.
And those felt like inflicting ideas.
But when, you know, it wasn't even like, help me understand.
It was like, so madiqua, you know, we were just talking about
madiqua in general. And Rachel shared the story of
her grandmother who had been, who had a very difficult life
(34:59):
and turned to Catholicism or Christianity.
I, I don't know if she specifiedit as Catholicism, but to
Christianity. And it really allowed me to kind
of wrap my head around the fact that you can be very Japanese
but still believe in in and something else and be both
(35:22):
entities. And as as we start the series,
it seems like this is, you know,Blackthorn or or Kornaga's
story. But as we go through get closer
to the end, it's a very much Mary goes story.
And even after her death, her actions are like a stone that
(35:44):
creates a tidal wave. And as you were talking about
empowering people, you know, it must be an honor for you to play
such an empowering character. I was wondering if you could
talk about how you feel about that now that there's it's all
out there. Yeah, for sure.
I think that for me, just playing, taking part in this in
(36:05):
this show meant I was doing something for the women in my
community. I didn't want to perpetuate the,
the, the, what is it? The image of women, Japanese
women being submissive and just cute, you know, not saying too
much or being just the sexy figure or just the one that does
(36:30):
a lot of fighting somehow. Nor has had to wield a sword,
even though that's not really part of her background, you
know, things like that. And so like, so to be able to
play a character who didn't relyon any of those elements, who
wasn't just the the romantic, like romantic other to the male
(36:51):
character, like she's not defined by any more about what
she is, what her story like whather history is, the relationship
that she has with her father, why she's able to stay strong in
in a community oppressive. And then she finally gets to,
(37:13):
she gets the permission to really take action and she's
fulfilling, you know, her needs,her Lord's needs and avenging
her family. And so all of that just felt
like it was the most, like it was the most, what is it like?
(37:35):
There was so much depth to her that I hadn't seen in other
portrayals of our women. And it just feels so lovely
because then I'm getting, you know, people come to me.
Being like, this has really opened up my eyes.
I was in, I was doing press, andI was able to talk to Japanese
(37:58):
girls who were in the States, and they were like, I'm so happy
to see this portrayal. I feel like it's a reflection of
myself and even older women who were like, oh, I didn't even
know that I was internalizing all these stereotypes and kind
of answering to that image. And this is giving me courage to
(38:20):
not think about all that stuff. And so it's, I don't know.
It's just, I'm so grateful that Justin and Rachel came up with
this, this version of her. It's amazing just to see how
much it touches people. So without her courage and
wisdom, so many things would have ended differently.
(38:42):
Do you feel she leaves at peace in the end?
I think she leaves in peace because I don't, I think that
she knows the, the impact that what she's doing will have is
immense and that her Lord has this vision for his country.
(39:03):
And she knows that he, he's going to do he's, he's trying to
do something that's very, very big and impactful.
And that includes the people that she loves, the people like
her son and the people that she really cares for, like
Lockthorne. And you know, before she does
decide to go fulfill her, her whole plan, she goes to Alvito
(39:31):
and asks for him to, you know, spare his Blackthorn's life.
And so like she, she's thinking about, you know, what's going to
happen afterwards as well. But even though she will have to
be, she will be gone. She believes that there all of
this is for a greater cause. Could you ever, could you ever
make the decisions she makes? I mean, the, the world that we
(39:56):
live in is so different. You know, people are not taking
their lives to to. To serve anyone else.
And so I don't know if in this circumstance I'd be able to do
it, but I hope that I'm able to.I don't know what it is, but I
(40:16):
hope that I'm able to have somewhat of an impact on other
people and not just myself and just my family, but like do
something for a bigger group throughout my life.
I don't know what it is but and it's it's so small compared to
that equal, but she's definitelymade me think about like what
(40:37):
what am I trying to do with the time that I have?
Maybe you're going to change a mind or a heart that is going to
change the world. Right, could happen.
So I'm curious if you had a favorite scene besides your
scenes, you know, when when you watch this, were there scenes
that that really? Obviously episode 8 with
(40:59):
Hiromatsu, I think that that wasthat's probably the most
powerful scene because we're allwe all really don't know what's
going on in the moment. It's only later on that we find
out that this was all, you know,part of the plan and just the
loyalty and that that friendship, the connection that
(41:22):
they of the bond. It's, it's so strong and I, I
can't watch that scene. I've watched it many times, but
I can't watch it without shedding a tear.
That's my ultimate favorite. Yeah, that's amazing.
It's the what do you think the path would be or what do you
think the the end result would be if she never had met
(41:42):
Blackthorne? Oh, that's such an interesting
question. I've, I haven't even thought
about it. What would it have been if she
hadn't met Blackburn? I think that she would have
always looked for ways to serve her Lord.
But without Blackburn, that means she wouldn't have been a
(42:05):
translator, which means she wouldn't have really been in the
room with Torah nagasama as often.
It would have been totally different.
I, I can't even answer it because I truly believe that you
meet certain people in your lifethat at the right time and
you're meant to meet those people, you're meant to walk the
(42:27):
path in the way that you are walking it.
You know, it's, it's like it's fate, right?
And so I don't even know if there's a version of her not
meeting it. Like that's her commit, which is
fate in Japanese. Well, I'm going to wrap up with
(42:48):
a few quick questions. The last TV topics you you pick
up your remote control, a genie comes out, grants you one wish.
He says you can have one more season of a show you love.
It can be an added extra season like you know, an 11th season
after the 10 that were already made.
It can be something in the middle to tell, like expand on a
series season you like. Or it can be even like a
(43:10):
prequel. Same cast.
It doesn't matter who you know how much time has passed.
If it's I Love Lucy, it's still the same cast.
This is not like AI. So what?
What series would you choose andwhy?
Shogun. Oh, really?
I would say Shogun because I don't know if I'm allowed to
spoil it, but like, obviously, you know, let Equal's story has
(43:32):
come to an end, but Oh my God, like it would be a dream if we
could, you know, kind of dive deeper.
So are you thinking you'd like to go like dig deeper into the
story that's already there in between the episodes and add
more detail? Is that what you'd like to do?
Or go back before and like make a prequel where you explored her
life even more. I, I'm not a writer, so I don't
(43:56):
have a great idea yet, but maybeit'll be a prequel.
Maybe. I know like this is so
unrealistic, like it's never going to happen and that's why I
say it. But it's just like if, you know,
like we miss, I miss medical so much that, like, how wonderful
would it be if we could see a little bit more, you know?
It's just like that, Yeah. Whatever it is, I'm all for it.
(44:18):
I've seen people online saying Idon't want this to end, so you
made the right choice. If the genie does show up, make
that wish and you know, ask for a big number.
Let's get like another 20 episodes at least, OK?
Excellent. And then of course you've worked
with a big tall growling beast that seems to smash for
everything in its way. So which on screen partner is
(44:42):
tougher to work with, Godzilla or or Blackthorn and Cosmo?
I love Cosmo. He, he is just so invested in
the character. You can tell that he's all about
the story and the characters. And so he was, he was easy to
(45:02):
work with in that way. Like I received so much from
him, you know, and I would neverask for it to have been any
different. And so Godzilla was more
difficult because I didn't know how he was going to look
exactly. We were, you know, looking at an
imaginary version, and so he wasmuch tougher.
Yeah, and and Congrats on season2, the the renewal.
(45:25):
Thank you. I watched it with my daughter
when I was watching Shogun. She's like that's she's from
from Monarch. I go, yeah, no way.
Yeah, I said now get out of the room because there's beheadings
and community and a lot of otherthings you shouldn't be
watching. Maybe in a few years.
OK, I do have to rap, but how about a current favorite TV
(45:45):
show? Current favorite TV show The
Bear. The Bear season 2 was amazing.
What's playing right now? I loved, I loved True Detective
season four. I think Jodie Foster is so
amazing. And yeah, it's a heavy one, but
I really like those heavy dramatic ones.
(46:08):
So, yeah, yeah. I think Jodie Foster is is worth
watching and she really nailed it on that series.
Absolutely. All right, last one, if you
could live in one TV show, popping in and out whenever you
want so you can open a door and walk into this world and come
back to your life uninterrupted,what show would you be able to
go and visit whenever you want? Wait, I don't know.
(46:32):
It would not be any of my favorite TV shows because they
are too dark. And I want to keep living and I
want to have a happy, happy life.
Maybe it would just be like Friends.
Like, how fun? How fun would that be to just
have friends like Rachel and Monica and Phoebe and like, get
together, drink coffee together.Yeah, definitely, Friends.
(46:55):
Just hanging out on the couch with like having these pointless
conversations and experience growing up or you know, kind of
like the all the chapters of life, but through, you know,
through 6 great friends. Yeah, that would be amazing.
And lots of coffee. Excellent.
Well, thank you so much for yourtime.
(47:16):
Thank you for your work. I mean, I've been really I over
the last three years. I'm like, OK, she's excellent in
this and this and this and like,what's next?
I cannot wait to see with Shogunthat it's really, really
reaching the masses. The the amount of people that
come to me who I I talk TV all the time and I'll say, are you
watching this? Are you watching this?
And then everyone always, like Isaid, Shogun, no, no, I'm not
(47:38):
sure what that is. And then about a month later,
people come to me, the same people I asked and said, are you
watching it? I go, yeah, watch it.
I told you about it, you know, on day one.
But it just keeps seems to be snowballing and I think it's
going to have a very long life to it that it's going to live
long after it's aired. I think people are going to talk
about this for years to come. So Congrats on that.
I mean, if that really does happen, I couldn't be happier.
(48:00):
But yeah. And also, I know exactly what
you mean. Like I'll be telling my friends
about certain things and then they'll they'll come up to me.
I'm like, I was the one who toldyou about it.
Give me credit. Oh, I've got a list, a laundry
list of shows, Breaking Bad, MadMen, this, I mean, and then
people come like it's, it's insulting you don't remember our
(48:22):
conversation. I know.
OK. Well, thank you so much for your
time. It was great seeing you again.
Thank you. Steven, talk to you.
Soon, I hope I'm the the the better, Steve, of your two
Steves in the last 24 hours, theone you'll talk about for years
to come. All right, Thank you.
Thank. You so much.
Thank you to Anna for being my guest on TV Topics.
(48:45):
Be sure to watch her work on Ethics's Shogun and on Apple TV
Pluses Monarch, Legacy of Monsters, both of which now have
season twos in the works. It looks like a big shout out to
Emily AU for our funky theme song and also to our announcer
Kari Loya. You can find him at
kariloyavo.com. It's in our profile.
(49:07):
You can also follow me on Twitter, Letterbox and
Instagram, all at Film Store. Thanks for listening and stay
tuned for more TV topics. TV Topics is produced by Stephen
Krzekowski. ZAP.
Hey, where's the remote? It's time for TV Topics, where
those who love television discuss the series and
performances that should be on your radar.
Welcome back to TV Topics. I'm your host Steven
Persikowski. Hanging out today on the TV
Topics couch is an actress who had a hard knock life in the
Nippon TV version of Annie. She also had to deal with
(00:25):
Godzilla's Breath and other monstrosities in Monarch Legacy
of Monsters, she played Naomi inthe Apple TV Plus highly
acclaimed series Pachinko, and she inspired and captured hearts
as Lady Medico in F XS epic miniseries Shogun.
Of course, I'm talking about thegreat Anna Sawai.
(00:47):
Hello, I'm Anna Sawai and today I'm hanging out with Steven
Prasakowski on TV Topics. Thank you for joining me today,
Anna. We're going to get into your
work on Shogun in just a few, but first let's talk some TV
topics. Remember, there's no pressure,
there's no right or wrong answers.
It's just a bit of fun. So looking back over the years,
what has been your relationship with TV?
(01:08):
Were you like ATV Junkie, you watched everything?
Were you very selective? I feel like I was a little
selective, you know, If I heard there were certain shows that
were amazing, I would TuneIn. But if I watched one episode
that didn't really click, then Iwould tune out.
So I've been picky. And you have a much more worldly
(01:32):
perspective. You, you know, we're all over
the globe. So what type of shows did you
watch? Did it change with the location?
I think I was always leaning towards like Western produced
shows and films. I remember like growing up
watching. I grew up watching the Disney
Channel. Of course.
(01:53):
And and then I was watching friends and things that were a
little bit more for adults as well.
And now I'm just loving things like The Bear, The Last of Us,
you know, like just very elevated, like good stories.
Like I yeah, I'm always watchingWestern ones.
(02:14):
Excellent. We watch a lot in common.
What primetime show is is the one that you remember first
really loving? Like the first one that really
connected with you? Oh, what is a prime time show?
Like a mainstream. Friends would be or you know,
like anything like the must see TV or you know, now it's
essentially the bear or anythingthat's anything else for Emmys.
(02:36):
Well, I think that, yeah, the first one would probably be
friends, Yeah. And I still watch it to this
day. It's amazing how like Universal
that show is that it seems like everybody I speak with friends
gets dropped in. Everybody has a connection and
and and young and old. You know, my daughters, you
know, I'm I'm much older than them, obviously, and I watched
(02:58):
it and you know, my my nieces who are like kind of between US
and this like generational. It gets passed on and one to the
next. Yeah, I mean, like you can watch
it any time of the day as well, when you're happy, when you're
tired, when you're sad, you know, And I think that the
relationships that they have are, they feel quite real.
So yeah, I loved and I still love friends.
(03:21):
And besides friends, is there one show that makes you laugh
most? I don't know, hold on, because
Friends is very, very funny. What is the show that makes me
laugh a lot? I can't think of anything at the
moment. Do you have any things that any
shows that you can bring up? I mean, I like what we do in the
(03:44):
shadows. Curvy enthusiasm, those two that
stand out. What we do in the shadows is so
funny. Yeah, that is one that I love.
And also the movie. Have you seen the movie?
Oh, yes, yeah. Oh my God, I loved it.
It's amazing how like, I didn't think they would be able to take
that movie and turn into a show and and actually pull it off.
(04:06):
And they not only pulled it off,they've expanded on it so much.
It's just a, it's, I mean, I think line for line is one of
the funniest shows on TV becauseevery move of the camera, every
facial reaction, every line is comedy.
There's nothing there that's just like, not there setting up
a joke or or landing it. Yeah, I mean, I can't even
imagine how it would be to shoota comedy like I I don't see
(04:29):
myself as good in that genre, but it must be so much fun and
like, also hard because, like, you're laughing at each other
all the time. You got to try it out.
Maybe. And is there one TV character
that you connect with most? Well, well, you know what?
There's one character. So in Friends, I keep going back
to it because it's just so iconic.
(04:50):
My friends and I always talk about like who we would be.
And everyone is like, you're Monica.
So I, I always was like, OK, that's definitely something that
I would do. I would like open the cabinets.
I would organize everything. I would react the same way that
she's reacting in certain scenes.
And so, yeah, she was someone that I would I saw myself in.
(05:12):
That's funny. I, I mean, I think everyone's
done that too. I I was Ross.
Oh, you were. I love that.
So we would be siblings. Yes, siblings and neighbors.
And on the opposite end of the spectrum from laughing.
Are you a crier? Yes, I get like, I'm either
very, very happy or out of nowhere I'm like crying.
(05:35):
The other day I went into my agent's office and it was
supposed to be like a fun meeting and everyone was, you
know, happy to kind of meet me or see me after a long time.
And I just, like, started bawling my eyes out.
It's so weird. I can't control it.
What? What was it?
Was it just like the the moment with with the series and what's
going on in your life or like hopefully something here?
(05:57):
Well, they were like, how are you?
And I think I just started crying, 'cause like, you know,
with all of what's happening with Shogun and how I'm feeling,
you know, it's sometimes good and sometimes bad.
But like, it was just a lot of like, emotions in the moment.
And yeah, it was out of nowhere.And everyone was like, what the,
what is happening right now? Are you OK?
(06:18):
And I was like, no, I'm not. He's quitting the business.
Oh no. Is there one show that made you
cry most recently? Or one show that like will
consistently make you cry that you watch.
Recently, I feel like I, I really, really cried watching
The Last of Us. Yeah, it was, it was so like
towards the end, you know, when everything starts to get
(06:38):
revealed and you're you're seeing Bella Ramsey is so
amazing. Oh my gosh, yeah.
That one really hit me hard. What's another one we're talking
about? Shows specifically.
T anything TV, but I mean it canbe anything.
Yeah, no, The Last of Us. Yeah, that that one hit me
(07:01):
several times the the opening asa father, I I saw my daughter in
that character. And then even though I knew it
was coming, I played the game, it still, it crushed me.
I watched it probably I'm getting emotional now.
I've watched it several times and I just see my daughters and
I'm like, Oh my gosh. And it really that's what I'm
(07:21):
like with. That's why I love TV is like to
connect in in so many different ways.
Right. And as a game player, because
you know you have such high expectations when these things
are being made, how did you feelwatching it?
I mean, I mean, I think it was better than the game.
Really. Yeah, I mean, they, they went in
different places, they expanded some of the characters.
(07:43):
You know what? You also, right now, I don't
know what it is about you, but you're giving Pedro Pascal.
Have you ever got that? No, I've not really.
I've heard the actor from the 300.
What's his name? Oh, the 300, Gerald, Is that
Gerald Butler? Yes, yes.
(08:04):
Nice. I was actually getting a
physical and the nurse was like,all right, let's do your weight.
And she's like, you are so Gerard Butler.
And I was like, I'd never heard that before.
And then she's like, take your shirt off.
I got to see. I'm like, no, let's keep the
illusion. They're all amazing actors.
But yes, Nick Offerman and MarieBartlett from the The Last of Us
(08:26):
their their episode I thought was something that wasn't in the
in the game and just changed theway you saw the like the, the
this crazy pandemic or whatever you'd want to call it and made
it more human and not like a survival story, but just, you
know, a small romance. Yeah, I love that episode too.
(08:47):
It's some of the best TV I've seen in a while.
So one more and then we'll get into Shogun.
Is there ATV show that you watchthat would surprise people to be
a like a guilty pleasure or one that you maybe let you feel like
you're the only one watching andno one's talking about?
Oh, I feel like I whenever I watch things, I need to know
(09:08):
that it's like worth my time. So I don't know if there's
anything that I'm watching that people aren't talking about.
Let me see. I don't know.
I can't think of anything. I you know what?
People don't know that. But I haven't done this
recently. But whenever I'm doing something
(09:30):
very, very heavy, like when I'm doing Shogun, maybe I did it
like I would go home and I wouldjust want sound in the
background. I'm not like sitting down and
focusing on the TV. I'll just play a reality TV show
you. Have one to go to steady thing.
What's the the sunset? The real TV show.
(09:52):
Yes, yes, yes. What's that one?
Selling Sunset. There you go.
There you go. Yes.
I have probably played all of their seasons and most of the
time I can't remember what was happening because I'm not like
sitting down, but it's very entertaining.
Yeah, I mean, sometimes it's good just to you can tune out.
(10:13):
You don't have to commit, you don't have to follow the
emotional journey. You can just kind of like, all
right, watch it. It's like a quick meal.
Like fast. Food.
Exactly. Yeah.
And also, like, the houses are so beautiful.
Yeah. Yeah, I, I, I go to like a
survivor. I wouldn't call it a guilty
pleasure, but you know, go aheadand watch it with my daughters
and we get all we discuss and breakdown who's best, who hits
(10:35):
the best game and all that. And who we you know, who we
don't like, who we, who our favourites are and we're always
disappointed who wins. So it's.
So we'll get back to the TV topics in just a few, but let's
start talking about your brilliant series that has
everyone talking Shogun. But actually, I'm sorry, we can
step back just a little bit, butwhat drew you to act in like,
(10:56):
I'm curious what took you from II know that you you were Annie
on TV and the Fast and the Furious franchise, Monarch
pachinko and even a whole lot ofsinging.
Well, in Annie, I had so much fun, but I still wanted to
become a singer. So I joined a music agency slash
label in Japan and they basically kind of trained me in
(11:19):
singing, dancing. They gave me a couple acting
lessons. You know, it's, it's very
different from what you guys have in the US, but acting
lessons, tap lessons, walking lessons, everything that you can
think about. I probably like tried.
And then they were, we had a notice where they were looking
for a Japanese girl around maybelike 15 years old who could
(11:43):
speak English. And there weren't a lot of
people that could speak English fluently and wanted to act.
And so I went into the audition and I got very lucky.
And they flew me to Berlin to shoot a movie called Ninja
Assassin with James Mateague, who also did FIFA Vendetta.
And the producers, the Wachowskibrothers, now sisters, also
(12:04):
produced it. So I got there and I was like,
Oh my gosh, this is so much fun.Like it's a, it was completely
different from, you know, being part of Annie, which was more
like a kids musical. And I was like, this might be
the thing that I really, really want to do.
Like I can see myself enjoying it and doing it.
And people were like, you're doing great.
(12:26):
So I, you know, as a 15 year old, I think I was like, OK,
this is my new passion. I got back to Japan and told my
team that this was what I reallywanted to focus on.
And they were like, OK, but we are more geared towards music.
So let's just have you kind of stay for the music and and then
(12:48):
so I couldn't pursue acting for a very long time.
And, you know, I was in a contract.
I couldn't really get out of it.So at the end of 2018, that was
like the earliest time that I could leave the group.
That's when I was like, OK, I'm going to start from zero.
I'm going to quit everything. I don't know how I'm going to
(13:08):
make it, but something within mewas like telling me you got to
do this. So I left and then maybe like
two months afterwards my now manager contacted me.
Wow, and thank God you did you know with with, you know, not
just this series with Monarch and and other work you've done.
(13:28):
It's it's amazing. You know, it's like to have the
guts to take something that you can do and you, you know, you
already know it's working and say, Hey, I'm going to follow
that dream. Is is really inspiring.
Thank you. I think when I was going through
that, I realized how much courage you need to like quit
something and I didn't notice that I, I felt like prior to
(13:51):
that experience, starting something was like a big
challenge, but leaving somethingthat you've done for so long is
like another thing. Very, very true.
It's kind of reminds me of your character a little bit.
So the the story told in Shogun is really, it's captivating.
It's everything that everyone's been saying It's I was hoping to
(14:14):
like it by the first end of the first episode.
I was like, give more. I need to see more.
I'm wondering what was your reaction like when you first
read that script, when you first, you know, got to like
really dive into it? I, I don't know when I first
read the script that I had Mariko's whole arc, like her
(14:34):
journey and how her story ends. So I remember like watch reading
the first couple of episodes andjust being like, this is this
seems very big. And I wasn't really sure how
people were going to be able to make it outside of Japan because
it's so specific and you really need to kind of rely on the
(14:54):
Japanese specialists and supervisors that that have done
this for years. So I remember having a little
bit of hesitation, but knowing that Hero was going to be
producing it and he had a very like good team in Japan that I
knew were flying over to Vancouver.
I was like, OK, it's going to work.
(15:15):
But it feels like this could either be very, very huge and
amazing or we can do a terrible attempt.
So I'm so happy that it it endedup being the the better.
Amazing epic. Yeah, the former one.
Yes, for sure that and what elselike drew you to it?
(15:37):
Why did you say I have to do this role?
I, I had a very good meeting with Justin Marks or showrunner,
and he basically kind of explained why he wanted to adopt
it in his version. And, you know, learning that he
like, it just felt like he had so much respect for the Japanese
culture and he wanted to do it right.
(15:59):
And, you know, even just feelingthat way, I felt was like a big
step forward because a lot of times, like people just kind of
want to do it their way. And they're not like that
focused on the details, but it'sthe details that really matter.
And I also love that he wanted to share the Japanese role,
characters, perspectives with the audience and have it be a
(16:21):
little bit more like immersive so that we're not like
distancing the viewers from the Japanese people.
And also with Rachel involved, she's half Japanese.
And she, I knew when I talked toher that she carried Madiko like
(16:42):
she was her own mother. And Madiko's journey is just so
it's so special because she's also based on Hosokawa Karasha
Song, who lived in 1600. And I wanted to do it right.
Like, I wanted to give her the respect that I could.
(17:02):
And I knew that within medical, we would see so much of like,
the suffocation that Japanese women have been through and the
the struggles that I still see within our women today.
So yeah, I was like, this is something that needs to be told
to the world. That's wonderful.
I one of my favorite parts of the series, or one, you know,
(17:25):
qualities of the series is how the small moments are so
immersive, so like, you know, you just get so wrapped up in
them that you know, you know, between America and and and
Blackthorne, I literally forgot that there's like this impending
threat and of war and doom surrounding them.
And then when you dive in even further, you see that your
(17:47):
character is inflicted, you know, on the outside, there's
this version of her that you people see, but there's much
more. And the concept of the eightfold
fence, which helps viewers and understand that to some amount.
But you know how she internalizes that pain before
you know what's going on, you see it in your eyes.
How challenging has it been to to create this layered and in
(18:08):
complex character? I think that just doing my
research on the character really, you know, built her
before we began, but also as we shot, like living in her shoes
for for 10 months, like it was starting, her story was starting
to affect me personally. And maybe the things that I was
(18:29):
feeling as an actor. In certain scenes, I would feel
stuck because I felt like I needed to express more.
I needed my emotions to be more visible to the camera.
But then she's in front of her husband, so she has to keep it
within herself. And like, the entrapment that I
was feeling maybe felt so real that I didn't really have to try
(18:53):
too much. Rachel Kondo played such a huge
part in bringing her to life. And she shared this beautiful
story about her grandmother to me.
And that was a time that I was trying to figure out, like, how
is she able to be Catholic and also a samurai?
Because there is like very on opposite sides and learning
(19:18):
about her grandmother really helped me kind of make make that
part of medical real. And I wasn't really confused
about it anymore. It was like, OK, so when she she
was about to give up on life, some someone, someone held their
hand out and that happened to bea Catholic priest.
(19:38):
So it could have been anything. But that's what saved her and
that's why she hangs on to it. And so, you know, little things
like that really helped me just bring her to life.
And I don't know, does that answer the question?
I was just curious how your relationship with the character
(20:01):
changed as you receive more material.
Like as you got more scripts andread deeper into who she was,
did that evolve? And did you read the book
beforehand or was your first exposure?
With this series. Before we started shooting, I
did read the book and it, it took a long time to get to
(20:22):
Micah's story, but it really informed me of like what we were
basing her on. But also I wanted to focus on
the scripts that we had just because like, we're not taking
everything from the book. And there were things that we
were tweaking and, you know, it was written by James Clavell.
But this time I was going to, I wanted to approach it from like
(20:44):
a Japanese woman's point of viewbecause that could be very
different. And like, it kind of goes back
to what we were talking about prior to this.
But like this, the suffering that she has, I think it was
easy to channel because I still feel like Japan is way behind
when it comes to like equal equality for women.
(21:07):
It's something that I've seen inso many people in Japan, you
know, and so it just, it's unfortunate that I can like,
really relate to her in that way.
But but yeah, I wanted to focus on that.
So I, I talked to Rachel and Callan and Erico and, you know,
(21:27):
the women around me that I felt knew what it feels like to be in
that position. During the later parts of the
series, Medico's past take some unexpected turns, and soon she's
begging to end her life, which was really powerful and
unsettling. And I, you know, did not see I,
(21:49):
I guess I could see, you know, the pain, but I thought, no,
she's gonna push through. And then to see that was was
just just very, very emotional moment.
What drives her to those extremes?
Rice, idiot. Rice, right?
Yes. Well, in episode 9, we're
talking about episode 9 or priorto 8080.
(22:14):
OK, Yeah, yeah. So then, OK, I believe that
medical is just so lost in that moment.
Like, she sees that she's not being able to fulfil her duties
and she is being questioned as well.
And it seems that she's not useful.
And I think that, you know, the whole thing that she's looking
(22:36):
for is like serving her Lord. But if she's unable to do that,
even when she's, you know, trying to like be an interpreter
and like do all her roles, like she feels that maybe maybe she's
better off like just committing suicide.
(22:57):
And so I think it's just that moment of like, I, I'm so sorry,
like, I'm unable to do this for you.
You should just release me from this role.
But then, you know, she realizesthat, no, like the the Lord is
asking for, for her to kind of the Lord does see that she can
do so much more and he needs her.
(23:19):
So she continues on. But I think for a moment there,
like she gets lost. But you know, it's, it's all
like the, the familial and the cultural and the religious stuff
all kind of combined and conflicting one another and not
being able to balance all three elements in the way that she
(23:40):
wishes she could. Really enjoyed.
It is at the end of eight, I believe, where her husband
decides he wants to kind of change the setup.
And she's like, no, not today, not ever.
You know, to have that moment that that powerful moment to
stand up and and be herself. Yeah, I think people kind of
(24:00):
forget 'cause, you know, like the words that she does speak is
very harsh, but he is very abusive.
Like it's not the the scene thatwe see.
And is it episode 5? That's not the first time that
he's hit her. And he's also abusive to the
Sun. And, and so I think she's just
(24:22):
like, wow, like you really don'tunderstand.
And like for someone who doesn'tunderstand, she has to like,
tell them, tell them clearly that that's not the way that
things are going to go. Also, the death that he's asking
for serves no purpose. And she is willing to make sure
that if she is dying like she wants to do it for a greater
(24:44):
cause. There's so much of this series
that creeps up on you that you're like, OK, there's twists,
there's betrayals, there's all these moments and like most TV
shows play it safe and or seriesand this does not.
It's like endlessly taking risks, which is makes the
experience all that much. Better I know.
And also, I find it so funny that like every episode that
(25:04):
comes out, like people are like,oh, we hate this character now.
Actually, no, we hate this one because like, things are like
changing all the time. It's so funny how people are
reacting to it. Yeah, there's certain characters
too that you like. I want to like this character,
but every time I think we're he's, you know, kind of turned
the corner. He shows he's a jerk again.
(25:25):
It's like I'm wondering where we're going to stay, where I'll
stand on on all of them after, you know, once this all
concludes. 2 episodes to find out.
Beyond the emotional demand, there were physical demands.
Can you talk about, you know, your spear work and, and other
things that went into, you know,bring this role to screen?
Yeah, I mean, I had to learn a lot.
(25:45):
Not just like the spear stuff. It was like just how to walk and
how to sit and how to hold a teacup and how to bring it to
your mouth. Like everything was new to me.
So that kind of physicality wentin the the sphere work was a
little bit more familiar to me because I had done a little bit
(26:05):
of training prior to this show. And then we had so much training
at like the boot camp as well. And that that stuff was very,
very fun for me. But I think the more subtle
stuff like staying in a kimono for hours and hours a day and
doing that for 10 months in the rain in Vancouver, like it was a
(26:29):
lot. And I was pretty happy when I
got to take it off. Like, it's such a beautiful
garment, but like, it's quite heavy too.
How? Much do you think it weighs?
I have no idea actually. That's a good question.
I don't know how much it weighs,but I can tell you that I had
like probably 7 layers of clothing, but also it wasn't
(26:49):
just seven because like you would wrap a very long sloth
around you. So that would end up being like
2 layers for one piece. So yeah, it was a lot.
But then there's also like the hakama that we wear, which is
very comfortable compared to thekimonos.
And when you see me riding a horse, I was wearing a hakama.
(27:12):
So I loved every scene that you see me wearing one of those pant
looks. That must affect your posture
and everything too. So is it?
Was it made where you can relax or was it made, you know, was it
truly traditional? I think they yeah, they tried to
make it a little less restrictive, like they would put
(27:32):
just like a collar for one layer.
But still I was wearing, you know, seven and yeah, it was not
comfortable. Like I can't I can't sugarcoat
it. I remember like for emotional
scenes or like certain days of the week, I would be like, can
you just wrap it around a littlelooser so that I have a little
(27:53):
bit more space so that I can tryto slouch a little bit and.
People are like, oh, that must be Friday.
She's kind of looking sloppy today.
She's just let me loose. Dress down, dress down Fridays.
What does it mean to you knowingthat through your work it's not
only entertained so many people,but you're probably inspiring a
(28:15):
lot of people as well, you know,has your family reacted or
friends you know and to what they've seen?
Yeah, I feel like a lot of my, well, my mom's always just, you
know, like, take care of yourself, I hope.
Like, you know, you're just having fun, all that stuff.
But my friends have been like, you didn't tell me it was going
to be this big. And I'm like, we didn't know.
(28:36):
Like we, we really had no idea that people were going to be
talking about it in the way theyare right now.
So it's been so lovely, Yeah. And all my family members are
very, very happy for me. So I'm just happy that, you know
what? We loved doing something that
meant so much to us is being received in this way.
(29:02):
And do you think it's starting conversations that you'd like it
to start? I think so.
I mean, I don't know what every single person is saying about
the show. I'm sure that some people are
like, it's, you know, it's not my cup of tea, but.
Some people are broken no matterwhat you give them that they're
going to. Yeah, you can't please everyone,
but I think that for the most part, people are very invested
(29:24):
in it and like they're showing alot of interest in in our
culture. Like they're looking up after
the tea ceremony scene. I saw comments being like, I had
to look it up. They they're doing this type
called and like just, you know, the details that people are like
paying attention to. It's so lovely.
And I feel like once something like this happens, like it'll
(29:47):
really open doors for more Japanese storytelling.
So that's like the biggest thing.
That's great, and when you have put so much into a role like
this, will it forever be a part of you?
Do you think it's changed I. Think so, Yes.
I feel like I have let Marie go go, especially yesterday.
(30:12):
Is this coming out soon? No, no, let me not say
yesterday, but especially with the release of episode nine, I
was like, OK, this is like my final let go moment.
And it's so funny because I was talking to some of the people
who created the show and we weretalking about how the sakura
(30:32):
petals are now starting to fall.And it's so miracle of her to,
you know, to be released at thistime.
Sorry, I'm I'm getting lost. What was your question?
Just being part of you and and the the continuing like.
Yes, so I have let her go, but Ithink that I'll always carry it,
(30:56):
carry this whole show within myself just because it meant so
much and it really taught me a lot about myself, about what I
want to do and the people that Iwant to work with.
Like this truly was like a dreamteam and the story was amazing
and the character is just so heartbreaking and so important
(31:16):
to me and so she'll always be a part of me.
That's awesome. I, I mean, I think it's great
that to experience something like this so young, so the bar
is set so high that you are going to pursue bigger and, and
things that, that match your standards and create higher
standards for other people goingforward through the projects you
(31:37):
take on. And, and it's, it's, it's great
when something, when good wins, you know, and like you OK, we
did something that's better thannot just like a simple
entertainment and not at the expense of our like any kind of
moral or, you know, no compromise.
It's just go out there and make the best thing and feel pride in
in what you've done. Yeah, I feel so lucky that I I
was able to to be part of such an epic, amazing, loved show, to
(32:03):
work with these amazing people and to give my version of my
equal to the world. Well, thank you.
Thank you for it. Thank you.
Hello again. Hi, it's so nice to see you
again. Time for our weekly meeting.
(32:24):
All right, when we finished, youknow, I had only watched up the
episode 8. So later that I think it was
that evening, I watched 9. And you should have warned me
about that. I, I wasn't ready.
It was completely devastating. And I'm like, this is an
incomplete conversation. I, I need to speak to you again.
So thank you for taking the time, right?
(32:46):
Of course so. My question what was it like for
you watching that episode? Because I know by the reaction,
you know my reaction and the reactions online it, it hit a
lot of people hard. What was it like for you to
watch I. Feel like watching it, even
though when we were shooting it,it was very liberating to
finally be able to just say certain things and actually
(33:10):
physically do things. You know, I, I felt very good
shooting that episode, but watching it made me feel very
emotional because of every like knowing her journey and
sometimes remembering how I feltin certain scenes and knowing
(33:30):
where Marico was going. Like it's just like such a
powerful arc. And it was just a lot of mixed
emotions from feeling good aboutthe character and feeling sad
for the character, feeling frustrated because of playing
(33:52):
the character. And like, I can't, I can't put
it into like one sentence that Iwas feeling.
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a lot. It's a lot to process.
And and then you get the whole next episode, which I'll get
into shortly, but which makes those feelings even more complex
because I don't think it's, you know, it's very much Shades of
Grey. But also you brought up a story
(34:14):
that Rachel Condo had had sharedwith you and you you never
really got into it. We're running short on time, but
I was wondering if you could share a little why it helped you
understand your character better.
Well, I don't know how much I can get into it just because it
is about her family. I mean, the whole thing for me
going approaching her was that Mariko is Catholic and she is
(34:36):
Japanese. She's very loyal to her Lord.
And those felt like inflicting ideas.
But when, you know, it wasn't even like, help me understand.
It was like, so madiqua, you know, we were just talking about
madiqua in general. And Rachel shared the story of
her grandmother who had been, who had a very difficult life
(34:59):
and turned to Catholicism or Christianity.
I, I don't know if she specifiedit as Catholicism, but to
Christianity. And it really allowed me to kind
of wrap my head around the fact that you can be very Japanese
but still believe in in and something else and be both
(35:22):
entities. And as as we start the series,
it seems like this is, you know,Blackthorn or or Kornaga's
story. But as we go through get closer
to the end, it's a very much Mary goes story.
And even after her death, her actions are like a stone that
(35:44):
creates a tidal wave. And as you were talking about
empowering people, you know, it must be an honor for you to play
such an empowering character. I was wondering if you could
talk about how you feel about that now that there's it's all
out there. Yeah, for sure.
I think that for me, just playing, taking part in this in
(36:05):
this show meant I was doing something for the women in my
community. I didn't want to perpetuate the,
the, the, what is it? The image of women, Japanese
women being submissive and just cute, you know, not saying too
much or being just the sexy figure or just the one that does
(36:30):
a lot of fighting somehow. Nor has had to wield a sword,
even though that's not really part of her background, you
know, things like that. And so like, so to be able to
play a character who didn't relyon any of those elements, who
wasn't just the the romantic, like romantic other to the male
(36:51):
character, like she's not defined by any more about what
she is, what her story like whather history is, the relationship
that she has with her father, why she's able to stay strong in
in a community oppressive. And then she finally gets to,
(37:13):
she gets the permission to really take action and she's
fulfilling, you know, her needs,her Lord's needs and avenging
her family. And so all of that just felt
like it was the most, like it was the most, what is it like?
(37:35):
There was so much depth to her that I hadn't seen in other
portrayals of our women. And it just feels so lovely
because then I'm getting, you know, people come to me.
Being like, this has really opened up my eyes.
I was in, I was doing press, andI was able to talk to Japanese
(37:58):
girls who were in the States, and they were like, I'm so happy
to see this portrayal. I feel like it's a reflection of
myself and even older women who were like, oh, I didn't even
know that I was internalizing all these stereotypes and kind
of answering to that image. And this is giving me courage to
(38:20):
not think about all that stuff. And so it's, I don't know.
It's just, I'm so grateful that Justin and Rachel came up with
this, this version of her. It's amazing just to see how
much it touches people. So without her courage and
wisdom, so many things would have ended differently.
(38:42):
Do you feel she leaves at peace in the end?
I think she leaves in peace because I don't, I think that
she knows the, the impact that what she's doing will have is
immense and that her Lord has this vision for his country.
(39:03):
And she knows that he, he's going to do he's, he's trying to
do something that's very, very big and impactful.
And that includes the people that she loves, the people like
her son and the people that she really cares for, like
Lockthorne. And you know, before she does
decide to go fulfill her, her whole plan, she goes to Alvito
(39:31):
and asks for him to, you know, spare his Blackthorn's life.
And so like she, she's thinking about, you know, what's going to
happen afterwards as well. But even though she will have to
be, she will be gone. She believes that there all of
this is for a greater cause. Could you ever, could you ever
make the decisions she makes? I mean, the, the world that we
(39:56):
live in is so different. You know, people are not taking
their lives to to. To serve anyone else.
And so I don't know if in this circumstance I'd be able to do
it, but I hope that I'm able to.I don't know what it is, but I
(40:16):
hope that I'm able to have somewhat of an impact on other
people and not just myself and just my family, but like do
something for a bigger group throughout my life.
I don't know what it is but and it's it's so small compared to
that equal, but she's definitelymade me think about like what
(40:37):
what am I trying to do with the time that I have?
Maybe you're going to change a mind or a heart that is going to
change the world. Right, could happen.
So I'm curious if you had a favorite scene besides your
scenes, you know, when when you watch this, were there scenes
that that really? Obviously episode 8 with
(40:59):
Hiromatsu, I think that that wasthat's probably the most
powerful scene because we're allwe all really don't know what's
going on in the moment. It's only later on that we find
out that this was all, you know,part of the plan and just the
loyalty and that that friendship, the connection that
(41:22):
they of the bond. It's, it's so strong and I, I
can't watch that scene. I've watched it many times, but
I can't watch it without shedding a tear.
That's my ultimate favorite. Yeah, that's amazing.
It's the what do you think the path would be or what do you
think the the end result would be if she never had met
(41:42):
Blackthorne? Oh, that's such an interesting
question. I've, I haven't even thought
about it. What would it have been if she
hadn't met Blackburn? I think that she would have
always looked for ways to serve her Lord.
But without Blackburn, that means she wouldn't have been a
(42:05):
translator, which means she wouldn't have really been in the
room with Torah nagasama as often.
It would have been totally different.
I, I can't even answer it because I truly believe that you
meet certain people in your lifethat at the right time and
you're meant to meet those people, you're meant to walk the
(42:27):
path in the way that you are walking it.
You know, it's, it's like it's fate, right?
And so I don't even know if there's a version of her not
meeting it. Like that's her commit, which is
fate in Japanese. Well, I'm going to wrap up with
(42:48):
a few quick questions. The last TV topics you you pick
up your remote control, a genie comes out, grants you one wish.
He says you can have one more season of a show you love.
It can be an added extra season like you know, an 11th season
after the 10 that were already made.
It can be something in the middle to tell, like expand on a
series season you like. Or it can be even like a
(43:10):
prequel. Same cast.
It doesn't matter who you know how much time has passed.
If it's I Love Lucy, it's still the same cast.
This is not like AI. So what?
What series would you choose andwhy?
Shogun. Oh, really?
I would say Shogun because I don't know if I'm allowed to
spoil it, but like, obviously, you know, let Equal's story has
(43:32):
come to an end, but Oh my God, like it would be a dream if we
could, you know, kind of dive deeper.
So are you thinking you'd like to go like dig deeper into the
story that's already there in between the episodes and add
more detail? Is that what you'd like to do?
Or go back before and like make a prequel where you explored her
life even more. I, I'm not a writer, so I don't
(43:56):
have a great idea yet, but maybeit'll be a prequel.
Maybe. I know like this is so
unrealistic, like it's never going to happen and that's why I
say it. But it's just like if, you know,
like we miss, I miss medical so much that, like, how wonderful
would it be if we could see a little bit more, you know?
It's just like that, Yeah. Whatever it is, I'm all for it.
(44:18):
I've seen people online saying Idon't want this to end, so you
made the right choice. If the genie does show up, make
that wish and you know, ask for a big number.
Let's get like another 20 episodes at least, OK?
Excellent. And then of course you've worked
with a big tall growling beast that seems to smash for
everything in its way. So which on screen partner is
(44:42):
tougher to work with, Godzilla or or Blackthorn and Cosmo?
I love Cosmo. He, he is just so invested in
the character. You can tell that he's all about
the story and the characters. And so he was, he was easy to
(45:02):
work with in that way. Like I received so much from
him, you know, and I would neverask for it to have been any
different. And so Godzilla was more
difficult because I didn't know how he was going to look
exactly. We were, you know, looking at an
imaginary version, and so he wasmuch tougher.
Yeah, and and Congrats on season2, the the renewal.
(45:25):
Thank you. I watched it with my daughter
when I was watching Shogun. She's like that's she's from
from Monarch. I go, yeah, no way.
Yeah, I said now get out of the room because there's beheadings
and community and a lot of otherthings you shouldn't be
watching. Maybe in a few years.
OK, I do have to rap, but how about a current favorite TV
(45:45):
show? Current favorite TV show The
Bear. The Bear season 2 was amazing.
What's playing right now? I loved, I loved True Detective
season four. I think Jodie Foster is so
amazing. And yeah, it's a heavy one, but
I really like those heavy dramatic ones.
(46:08):
So, yeah, yeah. I think Jodie Foster is is worth
watching and she really nailed it on that series.
Absolutely. All right, last one, if you
could live in one TV show, popping in and out whenever you
want so you can open a door and walk into this world and come
back to your life uninterrupted,what show would you be able to
go and visit whenever you want? Wait, I don't know.
(46:32):
It would not be any of my favorite TV shows because they
are too dark. And I want to keep living and I
want to have a happy, happy life.
Maybe it would just be like Friends.
Like, how fun? How fun would that be to just
have friends like Rachel and Monica and Phoebe and like, get
together, drink coffee together.Yeah, definitely, Friends.
(46:55):
Just hanging out on the couch with like having these pointless
conversations and experience growing up or you know, kind of
like the all the chapters of life, but through, you know,
through 6 great friends. Yeah, that would be amazing.
And lots of coffee. Excellent.
Well, thank you so much for yourtime.
(47:16):
Thank you for your work. I mean, I've been really I over
the last three years. I'm like, OK, she's excellent in
this and this and this and like,what's next?
I cannot wait to see with Shogunthat it's really, really
reaching the masses. The the amount of people that
come to me who I I talk TV all the time and I'll say, are you
watching this? Are you watching this?
And then everyone always, like Isaid, Shogun, no, no, I'm not
(47:38):
sure what that is. And then about a month later,
people come to me, the same people I asked and said, are you
watching it? I go, yeah, watch it.
I told you about it, you know, on day one.
But it just keeps seems to be snowballing and I think it's
going to have a very long life to it that it's going to live
long after it's aired. I think people are going to talk
about this for years to come. So Congrats on that.
I mean, if that really does happen, I couldn't be happier.
(48:00):
But yeah. And also, I know exactly what
you mean. Like I'll be telling my friends
about certain things and then they'll they'll come up to me.
I'm like, I was the one who toldyou about it.
Give me credit. Oh, I've got a list, a laundry
list of shows, Breaking Bad, MadMen, this, I mean, and then
people come like it's, it's insulting you don't remember our
(48:22):
conversation. I know.
OK. Well, thank you so much for your
time. It was great seeing you again.
Thank you. Steven, talk to you.
Soon, I hope I'm the the the better, Steve, of your two
Steves in the last 24 hours, theone you'll talk about for years
to come. All right, Thank you.
Thank. You so much.
Thank you to Anna for being my guest on TV Topics.
(48:45):
Be sure to watch her work on Ethics's Shogun and on Apple TV
Pluses Monarch, Legacy of Monsters, both of which now have
season twos in the works. It looks like a big shout out to
Emily AU for our funky theme song and also to our announcer
Kari Loya. You can find him at
kariloyavo.com. It's in our profile.
(49:07):
You can also follow me on Twitter, Letterbox and
Instagram, all at Film Store. Thanks for listening and stay
tuned for more TV topics. TV Topics is produced by Stephen
Krzekowski. ZAP.
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