July 8, 2024 • 43 mins
We're coming at your this week with another old list/new list! We've done murdered on vacation stories before, but it's such a good topic, we figured we should do it again (also, 'tis the season!)
These cases are frustrating and weird, and of course very, veyr sad. But they are also a warning to be careful while vacationing, especially if doing so alone! Be sure to have the time of your life, emphasis on the life!
Cases Covered:
1. Alice Gruppioni
2. Chynna Deese and Lucas Fowler (Bryer Schmegelsky and Kam McLeod)
Check out our website! www.twistedlisterspod.com
Join us on Patreon: www.patreon.com/twistedlisters
Follow us on Instagram: @twistedlisterspcast
Tiktok: @twistedlisters
Outro Music by Lady X/Y
Sources
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Northern_British_Columbia_murders
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/schmegelsky-mcleod-homicides-manhunt-rcmp-1.5299115
https://abc7.com/venice-beach-boardwalk-hit-and-run-crash-nathan-campell-alice-gruppioni/1002513/
These cases are frustrating and weird, and of course very, veyr sad. But they are also a warning to be careful while vacationing, especially if doing so alone! Be sure to have the time of your life, emphasis on the life!
Cases Covered:
1. Alice Gruppioni
2. Chynna Deese and Lucas Fowler (Bryer Schmegelsky and Kam McLeod)
Check out our website! www.twistedlisterspod.com
Join us on Patreon: www.patreon.com/twistedlisters
Follow us on Instagram: @twistedlisterspcast
Tiktok: @twistedlisters
Outro Music by Lady X/Y
Sources
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Northern_British_Columbia_murders
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/schmegelsky-mcleod-homicides-manhunt-rcmp-1.5299115
https://abc7.com/venice-beach-boardwalk-hit-and-run-crash-nathan-campell-alice-gruppioni/1002513/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey, Twisted Listeners. I'm Cindyand I'm DVD and this is Twisted Listeners,
a podcast about murder and listen,and we're back. And I don't
(00:36):
know what's going to happen. Shit'srough. Okay, We're doing the best
we can. We love you guys. Yeah, we don't mean to take
such a long break, but thenlike thing after thing just kept getting in
the way of recording. Yeah,it's kind of wild. How fucking difficult
it's been lately. Yeah, butwe're gonna do what we can. We
love you, guys. We haven'tforgot about you. We're not quitting the
(00:57):
podcast. We just have to.There have been a lot of big life
changes and we just have to navigatethem and find time, which we will
anyway. Let's just get past thathouse already. Bad. I hope everyone's
good. You good, Diva?I am. Yeah, I'm still tired,
and it's just tired in the summer, you know, new season yep,
(01:18):
now to like one hundred degrees andI'm tired. So that's cool.
Yeah, uh yeah, same.We quit our travel baseball team because our
coach was a dick. I justwanted to use my platform to say that
I don't think you'll ever hear it, but he was just in case.
Yeah, he was the worst.So we're trying out for other teams and
forming our own team and just havinga good time not having to worry about
(01:38):
being on that team anymore. Butthat was a big part of what was
taking up a lot of time,was like forming this new team and figuring
out when to quit the old team. Yeah, so pretty pretty, pretty
cool. That's it, guys.I don't know nothing else exciting. We're
moms. That's how we roll momlife. Yeah. Yeah, if anybody
(02:00):
doesn't remember, which is totally fair, we are doing people murdered on vacation
or murdered at like world heritage sites. A lot of these stories that I
looked up are like so sparse withthe information that I actually like changed what
I was doing like three times soI could tell you a lot of the
story. You have time, Iknow, I did. I did,
(02:22):
and I can tell you a lotof the stories on this list, But
unfortunately the telling of the stories wouldtake me about four minutes. So it's
been interesting trying to figure it out. Yeah, some are some are like,
but then there's some that are beefy. I picked one that was beef
and one that was like smaller.The one that I picked is mid I've
the one that I have highlighted,I'm actually probably not gonna do because there's
(02:43):
just no information. It's a murderat the Grand Canyon. It's unsolved,
and I just told you the storyright there, like there it is.
Yeah, so I'm probably going topick a different one. But uh,
okay, one that I'm doing todayis not highlighted. So but it's not
when you did, so I knowwe're not gonna gonna fuck up and double
down anyway. Okay, should wejust do it? Yeah, let's fucking
do it. Okay, I amdoing the murder death, manslaughter. I
(03:12):
don't know of Alice GRUPPIONI. NowI'm gonna say her last name that way,
because you can't say that Italian ofa name without putting a little Italian
on it, and having a longline of Italian people in my family,
I feel not like an asshole actuallysaying her name correctly. So her name
is spelled Alice, but it's Alice. Alice is her name, and she
(03:36):
was this This takes place at theVenice Boardwalk in twenty fifteen. Now if
people don't know. The Venice BeachBoardwalk is a world famous tourist trap tourist
location located in Los Angeles, California, where we live. When I first
moved to LA I was like,we're gonna go to the Sunset Strip and
(03:58):
the Beat and the Venice Boardwalk.And I was like, oh, oh,
you're Like now looking back, I'mlike, oh, you're such a
tourist, Like you have no ideawhat you were doing, Like you're just
being Stupidness is a weird place.Venice is such a trip. So I
went there thinking it was going tobe this like beautiful, fun right like
touristy, fucking scary like I endedup carrying a knife in like trying to
(04:20):
not get like fucked up on thebeach, you know, like because honestly,
like it's gnarly there and there's likemurders, there's robberies, like you
know, anybody seeing like wards ofDogtown or whatever, Like it was a
fucking gnarly ass area. It stillkind of is, although it's weirdly also
become like really gentrified and wealthy,and like I know that there's been a
(04:42):
lot of fights in Venice recently aboutlike basically the rich people who live there
trying to kick homeless people off thestreets, and like that's what I think
of when I think of Venice.Yeah, it's been so it's one of
those things where there's like ivory towers. So there's people who live in like
multimillion dollar homes just surrounded by likegnarliness, homeless people, beach toys.
It's like people who live at thebeach are kind of gnarly. People who
(05:05):
are like spend a lot of timeat the beach are kind of narly.
There's a lot of van light yearsand like I'm with those people, like
fuck the rich people. But allthat to say is it's a very weird
amalgamation. I guess, I don'tknow if that's the word of like different
cultures and people all kind of shovedinto one space. So in any case,
(05:26):
it's a tourist trap. It's abig touristy area, but it's also
just got a lot of like interestingcharacters and there's a lot of like people
who have been down there for fortyyears. You know, Harry Carey rolling
around on his roller blades playing guitarout of like a really crazy soundbox and
like singing at you. You know, it's a trip, like you'll never
(05:47):
see another place like it. Hopefullythe rich people don't completely destroy it.
But on the other hand, thingslike this happened and it's pretty fucked up.
So anyway, Venice Beach Boardwalk,which also like there is a boardwalk,
but there's also just a long stripof like it's like a street that
everybody walks on and it's like there'sa row of vendors with like you know,
(06:08):
tents, and then there's also onthe other side there's a row of
buildings, so it's like you park, you walk through the buildings onto this
strip. On one side it's thebuilding is on the other side it's the
beach. So it's like this longkind of like big sidewalk and cars can
drive on that and sometimes they do, but mostly it's people walking. So
anyway. Alice Grupioni is a froma well to do Italian family. Her
(06:33):
grandfather, her grandfather, her grandfather, her grandfather owned like an Italian soccer
team. At one point, theywere just a very wealthy, rich family.
She was just married I think likethree days prior to when this happened,
which was in September of twenty fifteen, so oh no, no,
(06:56):
sorry, August of Sorry August twentythirteen. Sorry, the conviction and all
this happened in fifteen, so thisis August thirteen. Okay, twenty thirteen
is when it takes place. Soshe was married, I think like the
last week of July in Italy.Now, she got married in her small
hometown, and from what I read, a lot of what I read was
(07:17):
like translated from Italians, so itwas difficult to get exact, you know,
information. But her wedding was huge, like hundreds and hundreds of people,
which I think is fairly normal forItalians. But also oh yeah,
yeah, I mean, big weddingsare a thing. But also she was
like beloved in her town. Everybodyknew her. Again, her family was
(07:38):
very well to do. I thinkthey were very involved in the local town,
and everybody said she was just youknow, wonderful and warm and caring
and beautiful. So she gets married, she's thirty two years old. She
took her time, which like hell, yeah, live your life, do
your thing, and she and herhusband decide to go to America for their
(08:01):
honeymoon, which like I think that'sbecoming less and less of a thing since
this is like a burning shit pile, trash can, horrible place. But
back in twenty thirteen, it wasstill like, you know, fun and
exciting to come to America. Nowwhat Europeans still glamorize California, especially like
California like a vacation. They don'tknow all the issues with it per se.
(08:24):
Yeah, I guess we're one ofthe final, the like last places
that's like, you know, considerednot horrible. You guys are wrong,
don't come here anyway. So sheand her husband are enjoying their time in
America and they go down to theboardwalk. It's like one of the very
(08:45):
first days that they are in La. They decide to do the tourist strap
that is the boardwalk. So theyare are walking around it's like straight up
the middle of the fucking day,and they're walking on this area that I
said, like cars can drive onbut typically don't, and they're surrounded by
(09:05):
people, they're surrounded by vendors,and out of nowhere, this car comes
racing up. So it comes there'slike I said, there's like driveways to
get onto here, but you're notreally allowed to drive there. So this
car goes around one of the bullards. Those are the big things in the
streets to keep cars out, youknow, like the big poles. Yeah,
(09:26):
he goes around those, probably drivingsomeone into the sand, and drives
onto this boardwalk and he just startslike ramming people and ramming the tents and
the vendors, and like smashes anATM machine that goes flying ATM machine.
I said it, Oh my god, it's on ATM machine. It's an
(09:46):
ATM or it's an at machine.God damn it. So he hits this
ATM and it goes fucking flying.It hits this woman in the back of
the head, knocking her unconscious.And then he continues he's like pushing forward
and and he ends up, youknow, ramming quite a few people,
including Aliche. Now Alich and herhusband Christian see this car coming and he
(10:07):
tries to pull her out of theway. Now he ends up getting hit
and like I don't know if heblacks out, but he said at one
point like he just didn't know whatwas happening. When he gets up off
the ground, he sees her,you know, three hundred feet away on
the ground. This car hit alichashe came onto the hood of the car,
and then he drove three hundred feetwith her on the car and then
(10:30):
stopped abruptly launching her off of it. Horrible. Yes, Now, Christian,
her very new husband, runs overto her and holds her hand as
she breathes her last breath. He'slike cradling her head. So we're screaming,
yeah, fucking crazy now. Ithe man in the car flees the
(10:52):
scene. I believe he flees thescene with the car, parks the car
around the corner and leaves on foot. Police are called to this. Seventeen
people are injured, some of themvery seriously injured, and Alice is taking
the hospital where she is pronounced dead. Now luckily she was the only person
to die, but there are peoplewho to this day are still walking with
(11:13):
like canes, who still have seriousinjuries. Yeah, and like like chronic
pain now because of things. Yeah, though it's a very serious. We're
all very like close one stupid thingaway from being disabled. Like it's truly,
you know, it's really close,very scary and hopefully, you know,
wake up call to people to notbe prejudiced against people who are you
(11:37):
know, have mobility issues or painissues because it could be any one of
us at any point. Oh yeah, yeah. So yeah. So police
are looking for the man obviously,and they have CCTV around there. They
do, so they see the Dodge, they find the car, and eventually
they're going to trace it back tothe owner. But before they do,
(11:58):
thirty nine year old Nathan ca Amblewalks into the Santa Monica police station and
turns himself in. He says,I'm the man who was in the car.
I did it, YadA YadA.So they arrest him and from here
basically they just go to trial andthey go to trial for murder and Nathan.
(12:20):
So let's talk about Nathan for aminute here. So, like I
said, he's thirty nine years oldat the time that this happens, and
he is originally from Colorado. Nowfrom Colorado, he spent some time in
Florida, then he moved back toColorado, and then he came down to
California, where he'd only been fora week or two. And somehow this
man, who has a laundry listof petty crimes under his belt, knew
(12:43):
exactly where to go to get intosome trouble in Los Angeles. So this
man, he you know was arrested. I think for like theft, he
had issues with drugs. He wasone of those guys who was like in
and out of trying to get hislife together. So at one point he
had become like a patient at arecovery center, and he then started running
(13:05):
the recovery center, which is actuallya thing that these recovery centers do.
When they have somebody who like,oh, hello kitty, who becomes you
know, he becomes they become sober, they start to get their shit together,
they will give them a job workingin that recovery center because it's a
great way for these people to likeconnect with people who haven't quite got there
yet. Right, So there willbe ex addicts working in these recovery centers
(13:28):
helping other people recover, right ifthat makes sense, and I know they
don't. They always say, likefor life, like I'm an addict,
but like recovered people who are nolonger using. So he was he was
in this position working in a placein like a recovery center, but he
was fired for using drugs and alcohol. So he had relapsed, which there's
also definitely a thing that happens,and at this point was living as far
(13:54):
as we know in his car,and he had bought that car in Colorado.
He'd scraped together enough need to buythis like used Dodge you know,
coop. It was like a sedan. I mean, it didn't even have
like a decent place to sleep.But he comes down to California and he's
sleeping in his car. Now,as to why he did what he did,
(14:15):
the prosecution states that they spoke toa homeless man who said, we
were trying to buy some meth froma drug dealer in Venice Beach. We
give him thirty five dollars and hedidn't come back with any meth. So
Nathan told me point him out,I'll run him over with my car.
And this man pointed out the drugdealer, and Nathan drove his car onto
(14:37):
the boardwalk to run him over.Now, Nathan's defense attorneys say, oh
no, no, no, that'snot what happened. He accidentally drove onto
the boardwalk and then when he wason there, he tried to reverse out
but accidentally accelerated. Now, theproblem with that is that there's closed circuit
TV showing him like aiming for stuff, like hitting vendors, hitting this atm
(15:01):
hitting people like it's more than justthe drug dealer. He's going for anyone
and everything. Yeah, And thething is he's not just driving in a
straight line, you know, likeyou've definitely seen like sometimes when elderly people
accident and it happens and it's horribleand they shouldn't be driving in the first
place. Off, this is thetype of thing that happens, but you
know, where they accidentally step onthe gas and like run somebody over.
This was not that. This wasclearly not that, And it was like
(15:24):
very clearly not that, Like there'snot even like a question. So his
lawyers are arguing it was a mistake, and that's kind of the stance that
he takes, like if I couldtake it back, I didn't mean to.
You watch the video, it's veryfucking clear that this guy is just
a piece of shit who doesn't carewho he hurts because he's trying to run
this drug dealer over. And it'slike, dude, if the drug dealer
(15:46):
took your money, go fight him. You don't have to, you know.
So it's just a complete disregard forlike anybody around there. It's a
complete overreaction. It's just something thatlike somebody on drugs with who's a piece
of shit? Would do you know? You can be on drugs and not
be a piece of shit. There'slike a combination here. No, they
go to trial and he is convictedof second degree murder. He also got
(16:14):
twenty six counts of assault with adeadly weapon, and all told, he
ends up getting forty two years tolife in prison. Now he was already
you know, thirty nine at thispoint, So if he doesn't die in
prison, he's going to be very, very old by the time he gets
out. My assumption is he's notgoing to make it out, and that's
fine with me. Yeah, that'sthat's the story of E's family. You
(16:34):
know, her husband. I lookedhim up because I always do that,
and he seems to be, youknow, doing okay. I think he's
an architect, photographer, He travels. I can't find any mention of her
anywhere, but I think that's fair. It's been over ten years, and
it's probably not something that he's tryingto like remember, you know. Yeah,
Yeah, it's really horrible and tragicand like fucked up for someone to
(16:57):
die in such a random horror boy. Yeah, her funeral was attended I
think by more people than her wedding, which is fucked up. But yeah,
her body was flown back to herhometown and yeah, pretty fucked up.
Like where were they from in Italy? I can't, I can't remember.
I read it, and then it'snot the problem with these articles being
(17:21):
super old is that the ones youcan still find are basically like the same
fucking article. I found one inItalian that said, let me try to
find it. I found one thatI translated from Italian that said where it
was a small town? Do theysay Bologne or do they say Bologna?
(17:45):
They say Bologna, Bologna. Yeah, I'm like, it's not Bologny.
So a small town south of Bologna. Okay, yeah, yeah, so
uh that's the thing is it waslike a very small town, which is
also why she was so well known. Right, so it was definitely like
a loss for the town because everybodythere is like family and they know each
(18:07):
other. So pretty fucked up.Yeah, okay, tell me about yours,
all right? All right, Well, mine is very well known,
and uh, it is going totake place in some National heritage or World
(18:27):
Heritage site, national parks an adjacentto and in them. This is the
case of Briarsh mcgelski and Cam McLeod. Do you remember this, McLeod,
McLeod, McLeod mc McLeod. Inever know how to say that name.
Yeah, I mean I must justcalled Bologna Bologny, but that was more
(18:47):
of a joke. But McLeod.Yeah, yeah, So it's going to
begin with the murders of China Deeseand Lucas Fowler. You remember this,
This is like a second ago.You'll have to just talk about it and
I'll be like that, I don'tknow. Yeah, okay, you will.
I'm surprised you don't know on namesalone. This is a huge case.
Okay, so you'll have a momentof recognition here in a secondat So,
(19:12):
China Deese was from New York City. Her boyfriend Lucas Feller was Australian,
and he was in California or sorry, Canada. I wrote, ca
A, it's been so long sinceI wrote this, I forgot what that
means. He Okay, he wasin Canada on a work visa and they
were kind of traveling and I thinkhe was probably working like here and there,
(19:33):
but they were pretty much just likebeing our itinerant van life type people
literally van life, cause had avan and just traveling and just camping,
being out doorsy, doing things Iwould hate. And they had been in
Canada. He had been there sinceApril and China had gotten there later in
July. So they're kind of living. They've been long distance and they're kind
(19:55):
of living there like you know,travel, van life, love, affair
of fantasy. They're having a greattime. So this is going to be
an abrupt transition, as I alwaysdo. But on July fifteenth, twenty
nineteen, China and Lucas's bodies werediscovered just off the highway near Leard Hot
Springs in BC. And this isright on top of the Nahani and Northern
(20:19):
Rocky Mountains Preserves, which are bothWorld Heritage Sites. There you go,
so we're in beautiful BC nature.China and Lucas's bodies were both lying face
down in a ditch, but theyhad been shot multiple times, including like
while they were lying face down.Yeah, yeah, it gives you a
(20:41):
little sense here. When they hadbeen found, they had been only dead
for hours, so pretty quickly gunshotwounds. Yeah I already said that.
But they were found to have enteredthem from the back, as well is
fucked up footage from a gas stationtwo days prior that was quickly found,
and it is actually really heartbreaking footage. It shows the two hugging, like
(21:07):
acting like when they don't know they'renot thinking about cameras, right, but
you know, or or you knowanything. It just happens to capture these
super loving moments where like she stepsup on the gas station like kind of
platform and then like jumps into hisarms and they're just like genuinely like loving
each other. Really sad. Witnessesreported the last sightings of China and Lucas,
(21:30):
which was seeing them standing on theside of the road with their van
which had broken down, so presumablytheir killers, you know, see them
like this, and instead of beinga helper, they them yeah. Yeah.
This van which they were traveling withwas found nearby, so it was
kind of like poorly hidden. Sothis happens first technically, but I don't
(21:56):
think it's huge news, but then, uh, it becomes even huger news
when it's sort of here my babywaking up there is it's all good when
it's combined with uh, the newsof two missing teens from Vancouver Island,
eighteen year old Briar schmcgelski and nineteenyear old Cam McLeod McLeod. McLeod looks
(22:23):
like McLeod y Cam McLeod. Okay, anyway, nineteen year old McLoud,
we're gonna say that. I reallydidn't say it that way. Cloud,
Okay, all right, all right, all right, someone's gonna comment and
be like he was right, itwas. Okay, Well let them let
them tell me I'm dumb. I'mfine with that. Okay, he was
(22:48):
could be liked, was dumb Cloud? Okay. Anyway, So these two
teens go missing. Their truck wasfound burnt nearby the scene of China and
Lucas's murders, and so it's assumedfirst at first that these are also victims
of like some terrifying Canadian serial killer. And these two let me tell you
(23:14):
a little bit about Briar and Camhere, and I'm gonna roast them a
little bit. Spoiler alert, they'renot the victims. I cannot believe you're
not like clicking with this. Idon't remember huge the hugest news Okay,
all right, okay, okay,So Cam and Briar or lifelong besties.
(23:40):
They worked at Walmart together in asmallish town called port Alberni in BC,
which is kind of in the Vancouverarea. Cindy sent me a file to
tell me how it's pronouncement clapp.Okay, a whole history behind why it's
McLoud. Okay, all right,camera cloud, thank you? All right?
(24:07):
Uh stupid Gaelic. All right.So some initial reports when these guys
are missing teens say, oh,these are just two normal kids, you
know. Their parents say they're reallygood, upstanding gentlemen, all this stuff.
So you'll still see some new storieslike that from that like era.
But here's some more about them andhow they're super cool. They loved Nazi
(24:29):
stuff, really Nazis. They're reallyinto Trump and putin generally, they're into
far right, far far far farright ideology, like Nazi level far and
they also are into survivalists bullshit.This is all like the same person it's
and they like to go into thewoods and quote unquote play war, which
(24:53):
is very embarrassing to me, especiallythat picture them all like on their stomachs
going like pew peep, you know, yeah, oh my god, I'm
looking at them. These guys arefucking weeds. They're embarrassing, right,
they're also both into video games.Shocker, there's photos of Briar in military
(25:15):
gear with guns as someone who methim on Steam, which is an online
video game platform, said that Briarsent him photos of himself in Nazi regalia,
which like, my eyes are rollingso far into the back of my
skull. And there's not a hugeamount to indicate, like any issues that
these two had had. Briar hadstruggled with his parents being divorced, but
(25:37):
like, okay, like so wewould do like sixty percent of you know,
people his age, it's not thatunusual. Like not, they didn't
have any major childhood trauma that Icould see. They were pretty much just
like privileged white kids and cell babybitches as we talk about. So on
July nineteenth, a Dodge pickup identifiedas belonging to cam McLoud is found burning
(26:03):
next to some camping gear. Ohso this is the same burned car.
I wrote this a lot of order. Anyway, we're here at the burning
car now, July nineteenth, thetechnically found after the bodies of China and
Lucas by a few days four daysafter. Okay, so here we're at
July nineteenth. As the police constablewas heading out from the scene of the
(26:25):
burning car. Someone literally came byand just was like, oh, happening
upon this cop and was like,hey, I found a body burning in
a gravel pit like two and ahalf kilometers away from here, And the
cop was like, oh, Ishould also check that out. So this
is happening like boom boo, booboom right after the car. So they
go there and the authorities find abody of an older man with a beard.
(26:49):
He's later identified as Leonard Dyke.He was a beloved professor at the
University of British Columbia or UBC,where he botany. He was a botanist,
and he was ideed after his wifesaw a sketch that was released of
the unknown body and a description ofthe car, and she knew her husband
(27:11):
went out on road trips and sleptin the car often, and he had
just recently gone out on a tripto this area to watch the grizzly bears,
which is really cute. Yep,he's Leonard's body was burnt and also
covered in blood. It was discoveredthat he had been shot as well and
(27:32):
stabbed or like in some way aroundthe body. The officers found McDonald McDonald's
fries with and the container so kindof in a way that they felt was
sort of stage. This was likeoften noted in a lot of reports for
some reason. I don't know whatto make of that or what becomes of
(27:53):
that, but there you go.His shoes were muddy, so he had
been walking on that area. Hewasn't like dumped. He had been at
some point. They're alive. HisID was missing, And in addition to
the fries, they found random trasharound the body, like a beer can.
I think there's like a Monster energydrinker or Red Bull or something.
(28:15):
Six cigarette butts and plastic flex ties. So there's trash strewn about. And
shortly after this discovery, please getword that a nearby outhouse is covered in
blood and they're like, okay,clearly there's a killer trying to clean up
in here poorly. Then they findeven more suspicious things along the highway Highway
(28:36):
thirty seven, including a burning trashcan and a different scene than they find
a random knife. Then they findCan McCloud's Walmart work ID and they're like,
hmm, okay, yeah, verysloppy trail of gage killer garbage Meanwhile,
(28:57):
they keep researching more about Cam andBryer. They go to their families
back in Poor Alberni, who saythat they left together back in July twelfth,
and they told their families they weregoing to a white Horse in the
Yukon to find work, which likeokay, yeah, and BC, You're
fine. Unclear what that was about, but they said they heard from them
(29:18):
last on the seventeenth, so thatwould have been like two days after the
murders. Okay, the first murders. Cam's parents said that the boys are
quote unquote introverted, loaners and gamers, which like red flags, yeah yeah,
and Smgelski's grandma actually said that hewas very upset about Cam's little sister
(29:41):
rejecting him romantically. Oh god,which the insult vibes are strong strong.
Cam, by the way, hada full on girlfriend who he just ghosted
and like left on this road tripand she was like, what you're like
dating this guy? You're probably Imean yeah, but also like that's still
(30:04):
pretty the cold. He just likebailed and she was like what yeah.
So as police investigate this pair,a clear picture of what's happening and the
movements of these two comes into play. So they find out that shortly after
leaving on July twelfth, they boughta semi automatic rifle and ammo in the
(30:26):
Nanaimo which is just north of kindof Vancouver and Victoria. Then they made
their way up to the Leard HotSprings area about three days later, putting
them right in that area for ChinaLucas's murder and just after the murders.
They're able to track their location basicallyall through cameras. Canada has a lot
(30:48):
of cameras, Like if you're drivingsomewhere in Canada, your car is getting
filt sure, So that's that's themain way that they are following their locations.
But they're able to find that theyfled north to the Yukon within hours
of that of the first murders.They bought a gas can and also also
footage from a lot of different likegas stations where they stopped. There's footage
(31:11):
to them in a gas station.They're only hours later in the Yukons.
They moved fast, so's far away. Yeah, buy a gas can which
they then used to burn the trucka couple days later, right on July
seventeenth. This is really scary aman taking a nap in his truck pulled
off the side of the road andthis man was towing a boat by the
(31:34):
way. He had a terrifying closeencounter with Camon Bryer because they pulled over
and one of them, I forgetwhich one one of the boys got out.
I'm calling them boys majorita ly too, because they're the little boy.
One of the little boys here gotout of the truck with a long gun
like assault rifle and began to stockthis man from the woods, which he's
(31:57):
like, I see you, actuallyright, and thankfully he woke up and
drove away and saw them though,but he was like, they were clearly
trying to kill me to my truck, my boat. Yeah, so yeah,
barely got away there. On Julytwenty first, this is two days
after Leonard Dyke's body and then thetruck are found. Surveillance cameras catch stills
(32:22):
with the boys in a hardware storein Saskatchewan, so they're like moving all
over the fucking place they are,and their faces leaving the store is Those
are the most like publicized screenshots andthat's what as later used in the wanted
posters. After they bought yet anothergas can at this store, but like
(32:43):
the cameras of the store literally getslike a perfect like HD shot of each
of them leaving. So on Julytwenty first, the police finally well actually
the July twenty first day police releasedinfo about Canon Bryer, but at first
they just say that they're missing andthey're being stopped. They don't say anything
about them being suspects. That takestwo more days, so cameras show it
(33:09):
took a while to get the timelineright of this because it's so complicated,
Like the maps of this are likevery dramatic and complicated. They're going far,
they're going like a round and I'mskipping a lot, Like there's a
lot of like this date and thistime they're at this gas station, Like
I can't go through all of it, but they're they're tracked. So cameras
show that they're driving a Toyota Raftfour that they stole from Leonard Dyke,
(33:31):
so they kill him for his killedhim for his car. It has license
places on it that they stole froma different vehicle, and cameras show that
they came back down to BC afterthat first visit to the Yukon, where
they've bought things like crowbars an electricaltake, presumably to do more murders.
Right. July twenty second, theraft four that they stole from Lender Dyke
(33:53):
is found burned in Manitoba. Sopresumably when these things come out in the
press the next day, they're like, they're burning it. Right. July
twenty third, finally, the RCNPannounces that Brian and Cam are actually suspects
in the murders of China Lucas andalso Leonard Dyke. They announced that the
AMMO the boys were known to havematches all the murders, and they announced
(34:16):
all their evidence basically of the camerasand the surveillance stuff. And this is
crazy. The day prior to thepolice going public with the fact that their
suspects, the two were actually stoppedin Manitoba for like a traffic thing,
like the speeding, and so theythey just didn't know that they were these
(34:36):
other suspects. But if that newshad been made public to Canada Canadian law
enforcement like a second earlier, theycould have been caught. Right. So
a very publicized manhunt that begins forthese two little Inceel baby boys. The
police are hot on their tails asthey trapes around BC. The police advise
(34:58):
the public to not approach them,you know, because they have tons of
guns. They're dangerous. Obviously.The manhunt covers five provinces, nineteen warrants
are issued, and the whole searchcosts the RCMP one point nine million dollars.
Holy shit, Yeah, this ishuge news. I'm like, it's
crazy. Yeah, people in allthe various areas that they're known to frequent
(35:22):
here are all scared. I guessall of Canada pretty much is scared.
What are they going to go next? What are they going to do?
These guys have like mass shooter likestamped all over them, right, and
they've got a bunch of guns andshit, so it's like, what the
fuh tons of them? Yeah,they try to track them down by credit
cards, but they didn't use themafter that initial purchase of guns. They
(35:45):
apparently just used only cash and theyturned off their phones after the fifteenth this
well, after that last time Ithink talking to their family. Yeah.
Briar's dad gives a really weird andtearful statement around this time, on July
twenty fifth, saying he knew thathis son would die and like a cop
shoot out either to or tomorrow.He says. Basically, he's on a
(36:06):
mission to die and suicide by cop. He says, quote, He's on
a suicide mission. He wants hispain to end. He's breaking down in
tears, and I'm like, ispain, mister Schmigelski, Mister, first
of all, what pain? Secondof all? Like, okay, yeah,
lots of teenagers are depressed, butI guess this this your son has
(36:29):
to die in suicide by cop.Like, Okay, that's a weird ass,
Like I think we're starting to see, like it's very where. Yeah,
that's this. There's some there's somestuff in this family for sure.
At some point Cam's dad releases astatement saying how Cam is like a caring,
kind young man. He's just amazing. And we're like, oh,
(36:52):
come to the end here, Andthis is abbreviated. This case is like
vast, like I said, butmostly with the following of their movements.
On July twenty eighth, the copsalmost catch up with them after they were
seen forging for supplies in York,landing in Manitoba and another province. In
July twenty ninth, in Alberta inSunday Town called sun Dance, the police
(37:15):
find an array of the boys belongings, including the AMMO, the famous ammal
that matches everything. And over thecoming days in around that area there's more
sightings and more items are found,like Cam's backpack and more of his personal
beloggings. Finally, and this islike day to day, the news was
coming out and like I was followingthis of like they're here. We almost
(37:37):
got them, Like the police waslike a second, they were like a
second behind them. It's wild.Finally, August seventh, police find Cam
and Bryer's bodies about eight kilometers fromwhere the stolen RAV four was actually found
burning a few weeks earlier, onJuly twenty second. Wow, they found
then their guns nearby, along witha camera stolen from Leonard Dyke that contained
(38:00):
photos taken by the couple and videosthat were taken a week or so prior.
And there's videos and the videos andthe photos as well have never been
released, which is great. Andpolice say that the there's essentially video confessions
made pretty shortly before they took theirown lives in some way, and as
(38:27):
well, it's basically they described asa last will and testament, which I
kind of I roll it's very dramatic, so I think that property to will
or anything, right, But it'sessentially a confession, and there's been kind
of I'm really glad actually they didn'tput out like even a transcript of these
because it's great to not let themget the press. They literally thought that
(38:49):
these videos were going to get Yeah, exactly. They're doing this very performatively,
so it's great that nothing was released. But apparently they don't go sensibly
into a motive, which I'm notshocked by. They expressed no remorse and
they but they did admit guilt toall of the murders, and they expressed
(39:10):
an attention that they were going tokeep killing if they had not been like
so expectively. Yeah, they weren'treally stopped. They killed themselves. I
mean, I think they were essentiallybacked into a corner where they knew they
were gonna get caught like any second, any day now, and so they
chose to do this instead. Butlike they kind of were like basically disappointed,
(39:32):
like, oh man, we couldhave done more random murder, right,
maybe they should have been I don'tknow, less obvious. Yeah,
it was just a wild story.And I remember them coming out and saying
these are the victims, these guys, and are you know missing, and
(39:52):
then that that flip around was likecrazy and you're like, oh yeah,
they are like in cell video gamebasement. Yeah yeah, yeah, I
think of like the Sandy Hook shooter, you know what I mean, like
that guy. Yeah, yeah,and you're you're like, oh shit,
it's it's uh yeah, it's reallywild. And I remember on last podcast
(40:16):
they were following this week to weekand they would like do this really amazing
embarrassing thing of like, oh,there's a little romantic vacation, and I
kind of love that they would likethey would kind of make it sound like
these two boys went on like alove affair road trip. Yeah, because
I I hope they heard that,and I hope they were annoyed just being
(40:38):
fun of basically shamed. Yeah.I mean they probably made fun of a
lot beforehand, like in their regularlife, so you know, yeah what
it's just horrible. Yeah, andespecially with China and lucas well on Leonard
Dyke too, like they're just reallysweet, beloved, innocent people that were
just killed by in cell bass holes. Yeah, just like cosplaying, you
(41:05):
know, being a mass shooter orsomething. The Littlessault rifles and their cameo
and it's like, okay, yeah, that's fucking shitty, dude, I
really don't know this story. Idon't know what the fuck that's crazy?
Yeah, how I missed this,but I fucking did. It was so
huge news, I guess in twentynineteen, it was huge, huge,
(41:25):
huge true chime news. Yeah,well there you go. I'm honored that
I could tell you. Yeah,fucking wild. It really is, like
I had the road trip aspect ofit made it wild too. Yeah.
I vaguely remember like, oh theywere missing. Oh now they're suspects,
like when you were talking about that, I was like, oh, okay,
I kind of remember that. Ididn't know they killed themselves. Like
(41:46):
I don't know how this one howI missed it, but damn Yeah,
little walking out of the like storephotos are pretty famous. Yeah. If
you look at the map of everywherethey drove and all the different like little
dots of like oh they were seenon buying this at this gas station here,
(42:07):
it's like it's a vast map.It's like, yeah, it's crazy.
I was. I just looked itup. Actually, I was like,
holy shit, they really like gotthere yeah we were driving. They're
going yeah, damn. Well,okay, there we are. We have
our first two. We did acordthe next too soon, and get that
(42:28):
out for everybody. Thanks guys forlistening. Sorry we've been a little bit
late. Uh you know, I'mproud of us. We did this,
we did it, we made ithappen. I'm proud of us too.
All right, guys, please like, rate, review, share with your
friends and family, and until thesecond half, stay off our light. Hi.
Hey, Twisted Listeners. I'm Cindyand I'm DVD and this is Twisted Listeners,
a podcast about murder and listen,and we're back. And I don't
(00:36):
know what's going to happen. Shit'srough. Okay, We're doing the best
we can. We love you guys. Yeah, we don't mean to take
such a long break, but thenlike thing after thing just kept getting in
the way of recording. Yeah,it's kind of wild. How fucking difficult
it's been lately. Yeah, butwe're gonna do what we can. We
love you, guys. We haven'tforgot about you. We're not quitting the
(00:57):
podcast. We just have to.There have been a lot of big life
changes and we just have to navigatethem and find time, which we will
anyway. Let's just get past thathouse already. Bad. I hope everyone's
good. You good, Diva?I am. Yeah, I'm still tired,
and it's just tired in the summer, you know, new season yep,
(01:18):
now to like one hundred degrees andI'm tired. So that's cool.
Yeah, uh yeah, same.We quit our travel baseball team because our
coach was a dick. I justwanted to use my platform to say that
I don't think you'll ever hear it, but he was just in case.
Yeah, he was the worst.So we're trying out for other teams and
forming our own team and just havinga good time not having to worry about
(01:38):
being on that team anymore. Butthat was a big part of what was
taking up a lot of time,was like forming this new team and figuring
out when to quit the old team. Yeah, so pretty pretty, pretty
cool. That's it, guys.I don't know nothing else exciting. We're
moms. That's how we roll momlife. Yeah. Yeah, if anybody
(02:00):
doesn't remember, which is totally fair, we are doing people murdered on vacation
or murdered at like world heritage sites. A lot of these stories that I
looked up are like so sparse withthe information that I actually like changed what
I was doing like three times soI could tell you a lot of the
story. You have time, Iknow, I did. I did,
(02:22):
and I can tell you a lotof the stories on this list, But
unfortunately the telling of the stories wouldtake me about four minutes. So it's
been interesting trying to figure it out. Yeah, some are some are like,
but then there's some that are beefy. I picked one that was beef
and one that was like smaller.The one that I picked is mid I've
the one that I have highlighted,I'm actually probably not gonna do because there's
(02:43):
just no information. It's a murderat the Grand Canyon. It's unsolved,
and I just told you the storyright there, like there it is.
Yeah, so I'm probably going topick a different one. But uh,
okay, one that I'm doing todayis not highlighted. So but it's not
when you did, so I knowwe're not gonna gonna fuck up and double
down anyway. Okay, should wejust do it? Yeah, let's fucking
do it. Okay, I amdoing the murder death, manslaughter. I
(03:12):
don't know of Alice GRUPPIONI. NowI'm gonna say her last name that way,
because you can't say that Italian ofa name without putting a little Italian
on it, and having a longline of Italian people in my family,
I feel not like an asshole actuallysaying her name correctly. So her name
is spelled Alice, but it's Alice. Alice is her name, and she
(03:36):
was this This takes place at theVenice Boardwalk in twenty fifteen. Now if
people don't know. The Venice BeachBoardwalk is a world famous tourist trap tourist
location located in Los Angeles, California, where we live. When I first
moved to LA I was like,we're gonna go to the Sunset Strip and
(03:58):
the Beat and the Venice Boardwalk.And I was like, oh, oh,
you're Like now looking back, I'mlike, oh, you're such a
tourist, Like you have no ideawhat you were doing, Like you're just
being Stupidness is a weird place.Venice is such a trip. So I
went there thinking it was going tobe this like beautiful, fun right like
touristy, fucking scary like I endedup carrying a knife in like trying to
(04:20):
not get like fucked up on thebeach, you know, like because honestly,
like it's gnarly there and there's likemurders, there's robberies, like you
know, anybody seeing like wards ofDogtown or whatever, Like it was a
fucking gnarly ass area. It stillkind of is, although it's weirdly also
become like really gentrified and wealthy,and like I know that there's been a
(04:42):
lot of fights in Venice recently aboutlike basically the rich people who live there
trying to kick homeless people off thestreets, and like that's what I think
of when I think of Venice.Yeah, it's been so it's one of
those things where there's like ivory towers. So there's people who live in like
multimillion dollar homes just surrounded by likegnarliness, homeless people, beach toys.
It's like people who live at thebeach are kind of gnarly. People who
(05:05):
are like spend a lot of timeat the beach are kind of narly.
There's a lot of van light yearsand like I'm with those people, like
fuck the rich people. But allthat to say is it's a very weird
amalgamation. I guess, I don'tknow if that's the word of like different
cultures and people all kind of shovedinto one space. So in any case,
(05:26):
it's a tourist trap. It's abig touristy area, but it's also
just got a lot of like interestingcharacters and there's a lot of like people
who have been down there for fortyyears. You know, Harry Carey rolling
around on his roller blades playing guitarout of like a really crazy soundbox and
like singing at you. You know, it's a trip, like you'll never
(05:47):
see another place like it. Hopefullythe rich people don't completely destroy it.
But on the other hand, thingslike this happened and it's pretty fucked up.
So anyway, Venice Beach Boardwalk,which also like there is a boardwalk,
but there's also just a long stripof like it's like a street that
everybody walks on and it's like there'sa row of vendors with like you know,
(06:08):
tents, and then there's also onthe other side there's a row of
buildings, so it's like you park, you walk through the buildings onto this
strip. On one side it's thebuilding is on the other side it's the
beach. So it's like this longkind of like big sidewalk and cars can
drive on that and sometimes they do, but mostly it's people walking. So
anyway. Alice Grupioni is a froma well to do Italian family. Her
(06:33):
grandfather, her grandfather, her grandfather, her grandfather owned like an Italian soccer
team. At one point, theywere just a very wealthy, rich family.
She was just married I think likethree days prior to when this happened,
which was in September of twenty fifteen, so oh no, no,
(06:56):
sorry, August of Sorry August twentythirteen. Sorry, the conviction and all
this happened in fifteen, so thisis August thirteen. Okay, twenty thirteen
is when it takes place. Soshe was married, I think like the
last week of July in Italy.Now, she got married in her small
hometown, and from what I read, a lot of what I read was
(07:17):
like translated from Italians, so itwas difficult to get exact, you know,
information. But her wedding was huge, like hundreds and hundreds of people,
which I think is fairly normal forItalians. But also oh yeah,
yeah, I mean, big weddingsare a thing. But also she was
like beloved in her town. Everybodyknew her. Again, her family was
(07:38):
very well to do. I thinkthey were very involved in the local town,
and everybody said she was just youknow, wonderful and warm and caring
and beautiful. So she gets married, she's thirty two years old. She
took her time, which like hell, yeah, live your life, do
your thing, and she and herhusband decide to go to America for their
(08:01):
honeymoon, which like I think that'sbecoming less and less of a thing since
this is like a burning shit pile, trash can, horrible place. But
back in twenty thirteen, it wasstill like, you know, fun and
exciting to come to America. Nowwhat Europeans still glamorize California, especially like
California like a vacation. They don'tknow all the issues with it per se.
(08:24):
Yeah, I guess we're one ofthe final, the like last places
that's like, you know, considerednot horrible. You guys are wrong,
don't come here anyway. So sheand her husband are enjoying their time in
America and they go down to theboardwalk. It's like one of the very
(08:45):
first days that they are in La. They decide to do the tourist strap
that is the boardwalk. So theyare are walking around it's like straight up
the middle of the fucking day,and they're walking on this area that I
said, like cars can drive onbut typically don't, and they're surrounded by
(09:05):
people, they're surrounded by vendors,and out of nowhere, this car comes
racing up. So it comes there'slike I said, there's like driveways to
get onto here, but you're notreally allowed to drive there. So this
car goes around one of the bullards. Those are the big things in the
streets to keep cars out, youknow, like the big poles. Yeah,
(09:26):
he goes around those, probably drivingsomeone into the sand, and drives
onto this boardwalk and he just startslike ramming people and ramming the tents and
the vendors, and like smashes anATM machine that goes flying ATM machine.
I said it, Oh my god, it's on ATM machine. It's an
(09:46):
ATM or it's an at machine.God damn it. So he hits this
ATM and it goes fucking flying.It hits this woman in the back of
the head, knocking her unconscious.And then he continues he's like pushing forward
and and he ends up, youknow, ramming quite a few people,
including Aliche. Now Alich and herhusband Christian see this car coming and he
(10:07):
tries to pull her out of theway. Now he ends up getting hit
and like I don't know if heblacks out, but he said at one
point like he just didn't know whatwas happening. When he gets up off
the ground, he sees her,you know, three hundred feet away on
the ground. This car hit alichashe came onto the hood of the car,
and then he drove three hundred feetwith her on the car and then
(10:30):
stopped abruptly launching her off of it. Horrible. Yes, Now, Christian,
her very new husband, runs overto her and holds her hand as
she breathes her last breath. He'slike cradling her head. So we're screaming,
yeah, fucking crazy now. Ithe man in the car flees the
(10:52):
scene. I believe he flees thescene with the car, parks the car
around the corner and leaves on foot. Police are called to this. Seventeen
people are injured, some of themvery seriously injured, and Alice is taking
the hospital where she is pronounced dead. Now luckily she was the only person
to die, but there are peoplewho to this day are still walking with
(11:13):
like canes, who still have seriousinjuries. Yeah, and like like chronic
pain now because of things. Yeah, though it's a very serious. We're
all very like close one stupid thingaway from being disabled. Like it's truly,
you know, it's really close,very scary and hopefully, you know,
wake up call to people to notbe prejudiced against people who are you
(11:37):
know, have mobility issues or painissues because it could be any one of
us at any point. Oh yeah, yeah. So yeah. So police
are looking for the man obviously,and they have CCTV around there. They
do, so they see the Dodge, they find the car, and eventually
they're going to trace it back tothe owner. But before they do,
(11:58):
thirty nine year old Nathan ca Amblewalks into the Santa Monica police station and
turns himself in. He says,I'm the man who was in the car.
I did it, YadA YadA.So they arrest him and from here
basically they just go to trial andthey go to trial for murder and Nathan.
(12:20):
So let's talk about Nathan for aminute here. So, like I
said, he's thirty nine years oldat the time that this happens, and
he is originally from Colorado. Nowfrom Colorado, he spent some time in
Florida, then he moved back toColorado, and then he came down to
California, where he'd only been fora week or two. And somehow this
man, who has a laundry listof petty crimes under his belt, knew
(12:43):
exactly where to go to get intosome trouble in Los Angeles. So this
man, he you know was arrested. I think for like theft, he
had issues with drugs. He wasone of those guys who was like in
and out of trying to get hislife together. So at one point he
had become like a patient at arecovery center, and he then started running
(13:05):
the recovery center, which is actuallya thing that these recovery centers do.
When they have somebody who like,oh, hello kitty, who becomes you
know, he becomes they become sober, they start to get their shit together,
they will give them a job workingin that recovery center because it's a
great way for these people to likeconnect with people who haven't quite got there
yet. Right, So there willbe ex addicts working in these recovery centers
(13:28):
helping other people recover, right ifthat makes sense, and I know they
don't. They always say, likefor life, like I'm an addict,
but like recovered people who are nolonger using. So he was he was
in this position working in a placein like a recovery center, but he
was fired for using drugs and alcohol. So he had relapsed, which there's
also definitely a thing that happens,and at this point was living as far
(13:54):
as we know in his car,and he had bought that car in Colorado.
He'd scraped together enough need to buythis like used Dodge you know,
coop. It was like a sedan. I mean, it didn't even have
like a decent place to sleep.But he comes down to California and he's
sleeping in his car. Now,as to why he did what he did,
(14:15):
the prosecution states that they spoke toa homeless man who said, we
were trying to buy some meth froma drug dealer in Venice Beach. We
give him thirty five dollars and hedidn't come back with any meth. So
Nathan told me point him out,I'll run him over with my car.
And this man pointed out the drugdealer, and Nathan drove his car onto
(14:37):
the boardwalk to run him over.Now, Nathan's defense attorneys say, oh
no, no, no, that'snot what happened. He accidentally drove onto
the boardwalk and then when he wason there, he tried to reverse out
but accidentally accelerated. Now, theproblem with that is that there's closed circuit
TV showing him like aiming for stuff, like hitting vendors, hitting this atm
(15:01):
hitting people like it's more than justthe drug dealer. He's going for anyone
and everything. Yeah, And thething is he's not just driving in a
straight line, you know, likeyou've definitely seen like sometimes when elderly people
accident and it happens and it's horribleand they shouldn't be driving in the first
place. Off, this is thetype of thing that happens, but you
know, where they accidentally step onthe gas and like run somebody over.
This was not that. This wasclearly not that, And it was like
(15:24):
very clearly not that, Like there'snot even like a question. So his
lawyers are arguing it was a mistake, and that's kind of the stance that
he takes, like if I couldtake it back, I didn't mean to.
You watch the video, it's veryfucking clear that this guy is just
a piece of shit who doesn't carewho he hurts because he's trying to run
this drug dealer over. And it'slike, dude, if the drug dealer
(15:46):
took your money, go fight him. You don't have to, you know.
So it's just a complete disregard forlike anybody around there. It's a
complete overreaction. It's just something thatlike somebody on drugs with who's a piece
of shit? Would do you know? You can be on drugs and not
be a piece of shit. There'slike a combination here. No, they
go to trial and he is convictedof second degree murder. He also got
(16:14):
twenty six counts of assault with adeadly weapon, and all told, he
ends up getting forty two years tolife in prison. Now he was already
you know, thirty nine at thispoint, So if he doesn't die in
prison, he's going to be very, very old by the time he gets
out. My assumption is he's notgoing to make it out, and that's
fine with me. Yeah, that'sthat's the story of E's family. You
(16:34):
know, her husband. I lookedhim up because I always do that,
and he seems to be, youknow, doing okay. I think he's
an architect, photographer, He travels. I can't find any mention of her
anywhere, but I think that's fair. It's been over ten years, and
it's probably not something that he's tryingto like remember, you know. Yeah,
Yeah, it's really horrible and tragicand like fucked up for someone to
(16:57):
die in such a random horror boy. Yeah, her funeral was attended I
think by more people than her wedding, which is fucked up. But yeah,
her body was flown back to herhometown and yeah, pretty fucked up.
Like where were they from in Italy? I can't, I can't remember.
I read it, and then it'snot the problem with these articles being
(17:21):
super old is that the ones youcan still find are basically like the same
fucking article. I found one inItalian that said, let me try to
find it. I found one thatI translated from Italian that said where it
was a small town? Do theysay Bologne or do they say Bologna?
(17:45):
They say Bologna, Bologna. Yeah, I'm like, it's not Bologny.
So a small town south of Bologna. Okay, yeah, yeah, so
uh that's the thing is it waslike a very small town, which is
also why she was so well known. Right, so it was definitely like
a loss for the town because everybodythere is like family and they know each
(18:07):
other. So pretty fucked up.Yeah, okay, tell me about yours,
all right? All right, Well, mine is very well known,
and uh, it is going totake place in some National heritage or World
(18:27):
Heritage site, national parks an adjacentto and in them. This is the
case of Briarsh mcgelski and Cam McLeod. Do you remember this, McLeod,
McLeod, McLeod mc McLeod. Inever know how to say that name.
Yeah, I mean I must justcalled Bologna Bologny, but that was more
(18:47):
of a joke. But McLeod.Yeah, yeah, So it's going to
begin with the murders of China Deeseand Lucas Fowler. You remember this,
This is like a second ago.You'll have to just talk about it and
I'll be like that, I don'tknow. Yeah, okay, you will.
I'm surprised you don't know on namesalone. This is a huge case.
Okay, so you'll have a momentof recognition here in a secondat So,
(19:12):
China Deese was from New York City. Her boyfriend Lucas Feller was Australian,
and he was in California or sorry, Canada. I wrote, ca
A, it's been so long sinceI wrote this, I forgot what that
means. He Okay, he wasin Canada on a work visa and they
were kind of traveling and I thinkhe was probably working like here and there,
(19:33):
but they were pretty much just likebeing our itinerant van life type people
literally van life, cause had avan and just traveling and just camping,
being out doorsy, doing things Iwould hate. And they had been in
Canada. He had been there sinceApril and China had gotten there later in
July. So they're kind of living. They've been long distance and they're kind
(19:55):
of living there like you know,travel, van life, love, affair
of fantasy. They're having a greattime. So this is going to be
an abrupt transition, as I alwaysdo. But on July fifteenth, twenty
nineteen, China and Lucas's bodies werediscovered just off the highway near Leard Hot
Springs in BC. And this isright on top of the Nahani and Northern
(20:19):
Rocky Mountains Preserves, which are bothWorld Heritage Sites. There you go,
so we're in beautiful BC nature.China and Lucas's bodies were both lying face
down in a ditch, but theyhad been shot multiple times, including like
while they were lying face down.Yeah, yeah, it gives you a
(20:41):
little sense here. When they hadbeen found, they had been only dead
for hours, so pretty quickly gunshotwounds. Yeah I already said that.
But they were found to have enteredthem from the back, as well is
fucked up footage from a gas stationtwo days prior that was quickly found,
and it is actually really heartbreaking footage. It shows the two hugging, like
(21:07):
acting like when they don't know they'renot thinking about cameras, right, but
you know, or or you knowanything. It just happens to capture these
super loving moments where like she stepsup on the gas station like kind of
platform and then like jumps into hisarms and they're just like genuinely like loving
each other. Really sad. Witnessesreported the last sightings of China and Lucas,
(21:30):
which was seeing them standing on theside of the road with their van
which had broken down, so presumablytheir killers, you know, see them
like this, and instead of beinga helper, they them yeah. Yeah.
This van which they were traveling withwas found nearby, so it was
kind of like poorly hidden. Sothis happens first technically, but I don't
(21:56):
think it's huge news, but then, uh, it becomes even huger news
when it's sort of here my babywaking up there is it's all good when
it's combined with uh, the newsof two missing teens from Vancouver Island,
eighteen year old Briar schmcgelski and nineteenyear old Cam McLeod McLeod. McLeod looks
(22:23):
like McLeod y Cam McLeod. Okay, anyway, nineteen year old McLoud,
we're gonna say that. I reallydidn't say it that way. Cloud,
Okay, all right, all right, all right, someone's gonna comment and
be like he was right, itwas. Okay, Well let them let
them tell me I'm dumb. I'mfine with that. Okay, he was
(22:48):
could be liked, was dumb Cloud? Okay. Anyway, So these two
teens go missing. Their truck wasfound burnt nearby the scene of China and
Lucas's murders, and so it's assumedfirst at first that these are also victims
of like some terrifying Canadian serial killer. And these two let me tell you
(23:14):
a little bit about Briar and Camhere, and I'm gonna roast them a
little bit. Spoiler alert, they'renot the victims. I cannot believe you're
not like clicking with this. Idon't remember huge the hugest news Okay,
all right, okay, okay,So Cam and Briar or lifelong besties.
(23:40):
They worked at Walmart together in asmallish town called port Alberni in BC,
which is kind of in the Vancouverarea. Cindy sent me a file to
tell me how it's pronouncement clapp.Okay, a whole history behind why it's
McLoud. Okay, all right,camera cloud, thank you? All right?
(24:07):
Uh stupid Gaelic. All right.So some initial reports when these guys
are missing teens say, oh,these are just two normal kids, you
know. Their parents say they're reallygood, upstanding gentlemen, all this stuff.
So you'll still see some new storieslike that from that like era.
But here's some more about them andhow they're super cool. They loved Nazi
(24:29):
stuff, really Nazis. They're reallyinto Trump and putin generally, they're into
far right, far far far farright ideology, like Nazi level far and
they also are into survivalists bullshit.This is all like the same person it's
and they like to go into thewoods and quote unquote play war, which
(24:53):
is very embarrassing to me, especiallythat picture them all like on their stomachs
going like pew peep, you know, yeah, oh my god, I'm
looking at them. These guys arefucking weeds. They're embarrassing, right,
they're also both into video games.Shocker, there's photos of Briar in military
(25:15):
gear with guns as someone who methim on Steam, which is an online
video game platform, said that Briarsent him photos of himself in Nazi regalia,
which like, my eyes are rollingso far into the back of my
skull. And there's not a hugeamount to indicate, like any issues that
these two had had. Briar hadstruggled with his parents being divorced, but
(25:37):
like, okay, like so wewould do like sixty percent of you know,
people his age, it's not thatunusual. Like not, they didn't
have any major childhood trauma that Icould see. They were pretty much just
like privileged white kids and cell babybitches as we talk about. So on
July nineteenth, a Dodge pickup identifiedas belonging to cam McLoud is found burning
(26:03):
next to some camping gear. Ohso this is the same burned car.
I wrote this a lot of order. Anyway, we're here at the burning
car now, July nineteenth, thetechnically found after the bodies of China and
Lucas by a few days four daysafter. Okay, so here we're at
July nineteenth. As the police constablewas heading out from the scene of the
(26:25):
burning car. Someone literally came byand just was like, oh, happening
upon this cop and was like,hey, I found a body burning in
a gravel pit like two and ahalf kilometers away from here, And the
cop was like, oh, Ishould also check that out. So this
is happening like boom boo, booboom right after the car. So they
go there and the authorities find abody of an older man with a beard.
(26:49):
He's later identified as Leonard Dyke.He was a beloved professor at the
University of British Columbia or UBC,where he botany. He was a botanist,
and he was ideed after his wifesaw a sketch that was released of
the unknown body and a description ofthe car, and she knew her husband
(27:11):
went out on road trips and sleptin the car often, and he had
just recently gone out on a tripto this area to watch the grizzly bears,
which is really cute. Yep,he's Leonard's body was burnt and also
covered in blood. It was discoveredthat he had been shot as well and
(27:32):
stabbed or like in some way aroundthe body. The officers found McDonald McDonald's
fries with and the container so kindof in a way that they felt was
sort of stage. This was likeoften noted in a lot of reports for
some reason. I don't know whatto make of that or what becomes of
(27:53):
that, but there you go.His shoes were muddy, so he had
been walking on that area. Hewasn't like dumped. He had been at
some point. They're alive. HisID was missing, And in addition to
the fries, they found random trasharound the body, like a beer can.
I think there's like a Monster energydrinker or Red Bull or something.
(28:15):
Six cigarette butts and plastic flex ties. So there's trash strewn about. And
shortly after this discovery, please getword that a nearby outhouse is covered in
blood and they're like, okay,clearly there's a killer trying to clean up
in here poorly. Then they findeven more suspicious things along the highway Highway
(28:36):
thirty seven, including a burning trashcan and a different scene than they find
a random knife. Then they findCan McCloud's Walmart work ID and they're like,
hmm, okay, yeah, verysloppy trail of gage killer garbage Meanwhile,
(28:57):
they keep researching more about Cam andBryer. They go to their families
back in Poor Alberni, who saythat they left together back in July twelfth,
and they told their families they weregoing to a white Horse in the
Yukon to find work, which likeokay, yeah, and BC, You're
fine. Unclear what that was about, but they said they heard from them
(29:18):
last on the seventeenth, so thatwould have been like two days after the
murders. Okay, the first murders. Cam's parents said that the boys are
quote unquote introverted, loaners and gamers, which like red flags, yeah yeah,
and Smgelski's grandma actually said that hewas very upset about Cam's little sister
(29:41):
rejecting him romantically. Oh god,which the insult vibes are strong strong.
Cam, by the way, hada full on girlfriend who he just ghosted
and like left on this road tripand she was like, what you're like
dating this guy? You're probably Imean yeah, but also like that's still
(30:04):
pretty the cold. He just likebailed and she was like what yeah.
So as police investigate this pair,a clear picture of what's happening and the
movements of these two comes into play. So they find out that shortly after
leaving on July twelfth, they boughta semi automatic rifle and ammo in the
(30:26):
Nanaimo which is just north of kindof Vancouver and Victoria. Then they made
their way up to the Leard HotSprings area about three days later, putting
them right in that area for ChinaLucas's murder and just after the murders.
They're able to track their location basicallyall through cameras. Canada has a lot
(30:48):
of cameras, Like if you're drivingsomewhere in Canada, your car is getting
filt sure, So that's that's themain way that they are following their locations.
But they're able to find that theyfled north to the Yukon within hours
of that of the first murders.They bought a gas can and also also
footage from a lot of different likegas stations where they stopped. There's footage
(31:11):
to them in a gas station.They're only hours later in the Yukons.
They moved fast, so's far away. Yeah, buy a gas can which
they then used to burn the trucka couple days later, right on July
seventeenth. This is really scary aman taking a nap in his truck pulled
off the side of the road andthis man was towing a boat by the
(31:34):
way. He had a terrifying closeencounter with Camon Bryer because they pulled over
and one of them, I forgetwhich one one of the boys got out.
I'm calling them boys majorita ly too, because they're the little boy.
One of the little boys here gotout of the truck with a long gun
like assault rifle and began to stockthis man from the woods, which he's
(31:57):
like, I see you, actuallyright, and thankfully he woke up and
drove away and saw them though,but he was like, they were clearly
trying to kill me to my truck, my boat. Yeah, so yeah,
barely got away there. On Julytwenty first, this is two days
after Leonard Dyke's body and then thetruck are found. Surveillance cameras catch stills
(32:22):
with the boys in a hardware storein Saskatchewan, so they're like moving all
over the fucking place they are,and their faces leaving the store is Those
are the most like publicized screenshots andthat's what as later used in the wanted
posters. After they bought yet anothergas can at this store, but like
(32:43):
the cameras of the store literally getslike a perfect like HD shot of each
of them leaving. So on Julytwenty first, the police finally well actually
the July twenty first day police releasedinfo about Canon Bryer, but at first
they just say that they're missing andthey're being stopped. They don't say anything
about them being suspects. That takestwo more days, so cameras show it
(33:09):
took a while to get the timelineright of this because it's so complicated,
Like the maps of this are likevery dramatic and complicated. They're going far,
they're going like a round and I'mskipping a lot, Like there's a
lot of like this date and thistime they're at this gas station, Like
I can't go through all of it, but they're they're tracked. So cameras
show that they're driving a Toyota Raftfour that they stole from Leonard Dyke,
(33:31):
so they kill him for his killedhim for his car. It has license
places on it that they stole froma different vehicle, and cameras show that
they came back down to BC afterthat first visit to the Yukon, where
they've bought things like crowbars an electricaltake, presumably to do more murders.
Right. July twenty second, theraft four that they stole from Lender Dyke
(33:53):
is found burned in Manitoba. Sopresumably when these things come out in the
press the next day, they're like, they're burning it. Right. July
twenty third, finally, the RCNPannounces that Brian and Cam are actually suspects
in the murders of China Lucas andalso Leonard Dyke. They announced that the
AMMO the boys were known to havematches all the murders, and they announced
(34:16):
all their evidence basically of the camerasand the surveillance stuff. And this is
crazy. The day prior to thepolice going public with the fact that their
suspects, the two were actually stoppedin Manitoba for like a traffic thing,
like the speeding, and so theythey just didn't know that they were these
(34:36):
other suspects. But if that newshad been made public to Canada Canadian law
enforcement like a second earlier, theycould have been caught. Right. So
a very publicized manhunt that begins forthese two little Inceel baby boys. The
police are hot on their tails asthey trapes around BC. The police advise
(34:58):
the public to not approach them,you know, because they have tons of
guns. They're dangerous. Obviously.The manhunt covers five provinces, nineteen warrants
are issued, and the whole searchcosts the RCMP one point nine million dollars.
Holy shit, Yeah, this ishuge news. I'm like, it's
crazy. Yeah, people in allthe various areas that they're known to frequent
(35:22):
here are all scared. I guessall of Canada pretty much is scared.
What are they going to go next? What are they going to do?
These guys have like mass shooter likestamped all over them, right, and
they've got a bunch of guns andshit, so it's like, what the
fuh tons of them? Yeah,they try to track them down by credit
cards, but they didn't use themafter that initial purchase of guns. They
(35:45):
apparently just used only cash and theyturned off their phones after the fifteenth this
well, after that last time Ithink talking to their family. Yeah.
Briar's dad gives a really weird andtearful statement around this time, on July
twenty fifth, saying he knew thathis son would die and like a cop
shoot out either to or tomorrow.He says. Basically, he's on a
(36:06):
mission to die and suicide by cop. He says, quote, He's on
a suicide mission. He wants hispain to end. He's breaking down in
tears, and I'm like, ispain, mister Schmigelski, Mister, first
of all, what pain? Secondof all? Like, okay, yeah,
lots of teenagers are depressed, butI guess this this your son has
(36:29):
to die in suicide by cop.Like, Okay, that's a weird ass,
Like I think we're starting to see, like it's very where. Yeah,
that's this. There's some there's somestuff in this family for sure.
At some point Cam's dad releases astatement saying how Cam is like a caring,
kind young man. He's just amazing. And we're like, oh,
(36:52):
come to the end here, Andthis is abbreviated. This case is like
vast, like I said, butmostly with the following of their movements.
On July twenty eighth, the copsalmost catch up with them after they were
seen forging for supplies in York,landing in Manitoba and another province. In
July twenty ninth, in Alberta inSunday Town called sun Dance, the police
(37:15):
find an array of the boys belongings, including the AMMO, the famous ammal
that matches everything. And over thecoming days in around that area there's more
sightings and more items are found,like Cam's backpack and more of his personal
beloggings. Finally, and this islike day to day, the news was
coming out and like I was followingthis of like they're here. We almost
(37:37):
got them, Like the police waslike a second, they were like a
second behind them. It's wild.Finally, August seventh, police find Cam
and Bryer's bodies about eight kilometers fromwhere the stolen RAV four was actually found
burning a few weeks earlier, onJuly twenty second. Wow, they found
then their guns nearby, along witha camera stolen from Leonard Dyke that contained
(38:00):
photos taken by the couple and videosthat were taken a week or so prior.
And there's videos and the videos andthe photos as well have never been
released, which is great. Andpolice say that the there's essentially video confessions
made pretty shortly before they took theirown lives in some way, and as
(38:27):
well, it's basically they described asa last will and testament, which I
kind of I roll it's very dramatic, so I think that property to will
or anything, right, But it'sessentially a confession, and there's been kind
of I'm really glad actually they didn'tput out like even a transcript of these
because it's great to not let themget the press. They literally thought that
(38:49):
these videos were going to get Yeah, exactly. They're doing this very performatively,
so it's great that nothing was released. But apparently they don't go sensibly
into a motive, which I'm notshocked by. They expressed no remorse and
they but they did admit guilt toall of the murders, and they expressed
(39:10):
an attention that they were going tokeep killing if they had not been like
so expectively. Yeah, they weren'treally stopped. They killed themselves. I
mean, I think they were essentiallybacked into a corner where they knew they
were gonna get caught like any second, any day now, and so they
chose to do this instead. Butlike they kind of were like basically disappointed,
(39:32):
like, oh man, we couldhave done more random murder, right,
maybe they should have been I don'tknow, less obvious. Yeah,
it was just a wild story.And I remember them coming out and saying
these are the victims, these guys, and are you know missing, and
(39:52):
then that that flip around was likecrazy and you're like, oh yeah,
they are like in cell video gamebasement. Yeah yeah, yeah, I
think of like the Sandy Hook shooter, you know what I mean, like
that guy. Yeah, yeah,and you're you're like, oh shit,
it's it's uh yeah, it's reallywild. And I remember on last podcast
(40:16):
they were following this week to weekand they would like do this really amazing
embarrassing thing of like, oh,there's a little romantic vacation, and I
kind of love that they would likethey would kind of make it sound like
these two boys went on like alove affair road trip. Yeah, because
I I hope they heard that,and I hope they were annoyed just being
(40:38):
fun of basically shamed. Yeah.I mean they probably made fun of a
lot beforehand, like in their regularlife, so you know, yeah what
it's just horrible. Yeah, andespecially with China and lucas well on Leonard
Dyke too, like they're just reallysweet, beloved, innocent people that were
just killed by in cell bass holes. Yeah, just like cosplaying, you
(41:05):
know, being a mass shooter orsomething. The Littlessault rifles and their cameo
and it's like, okay, yeah, that's fucking shitty, dude, I
really don't know this story. Idon't know what the fuck that's crazy?
Yeah, how I missed this,but I fucking did. It was so
huge news, I guess in twentynineteen, it was huge, huge,
(41:25):
huge true chime news. Yeah,well there you go. I'm honored that
I could tell you. Yeah,fucking wild. It really is, like
I had the road trip aspect ofit made it wild too. Yeah.
I vaguely remember like, oh theywere missing. Oh now they're suspects,
like when you were talking about that, I was like, oh, okay,
I kind of remember that. Ididn't know they killed themselves. Like
(41:46):
I don't know how this one howI missed it, but damn Yeah,
little walking out of the like storephotos are pretty famous. Yeah. If
you look at the map of everywherethey drove and all the different like little
dots of like oh they were seenon buying this at this gas station here,
(42:07):
it's like it's a vast map.It's like, yeah, it's crazy.
I was. I just looked itup. Actually, I was like,
holy shit, they really like gotthere yeah we were driving. They're
going yeah, damn. Well,okay, there we are. We have
our first two. We did acordthe next too soon, and get that
(42:28):
out for everybody. Thanks guys forlistening. Sorry we've been a little bit
late. Uh you know, I'mproud of us. We did this,
we did it, we made ithappen. I'm proud of us too.
All right, guys, please like, rate, review, share with your
friends and family, and until thesecond half, stay off our light. Hi.
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