July 16, 2024 โข 19 mins
Can the nationality of a CEO truly determine their leadership success? On this episode of "Two Chaps. Many Cultures.," we challenge you to rethink the stereotypes and misconceptions tied to leaders' national origins. We delve into how cultural traits like the confidence often linked with American leaders and the assertiveness attributed to German, Dutch, French, and Russian executives shape our biases and decisions when appointing leaders. We question whether these perceived qualities genuinely reflect leadership capabilities or simply reinforce outdated national stereotypes, potentially overlooking remarkable talent from lesser-known nations.
Through our personal experiences and a rich tapestry of global insights, we dissect how the headquarters' country of an organization can heavily influence leadership perceptions. Comparing cultural attitudes, such as Australia's preference for humility versus America's competitive spirit, we emphasize the importance of cultural intelligence in leadership selection. We invite you to reflect on your own biases and consider the immense value that diverse perspectives bring to the table in global business. Tune in and join the conversation on how to foster a more inclusive approach to international leadership.
๐๐ฌ๐ค ๐พ๐๐๐ฅ๐จ โ ๐๐๐ฃ๐ฎ ๐พ๐ช๐ก๐ฉ๐ช๐ง๐๐จ is the worldโs #1 show on the business of culture and the culture of business. Christian Hรถferle and Brett Parry ponder culture in short bursts and deep dives, featuring your questions and comments related to culture, business, and personal growth.
Be sure to check out and subscribe to our YouTube channel for even more great content: https://www.youtube.com/@TwoChapsManyCultures
Visit https://theculturemastery.com/ for more information about the skills for working in a global context.
The music on this episode is provided courtesy of Sepalot.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today we're talking about the six reasons to ignore
leaders' nationality or thenationality of leaders.
Let's throw those words arounda little bit.
Does a country of origin givesomebody an automatic pathway to
leadership?
Let's talk about that.
Welcome to 2Chaps.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Many Cultures.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
In an increasingly globally connected world, it is
vital to possess the essentialskills of cultural intelligence.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Listen along as we present the topics, tips and
strategies you can use todevelop the power of cultural
understanding in your personaland professional life.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Here are your hosts Christian Huffala and Brett
Parry.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome back to Chaps Many Cultures, the show where
too much culture is barelyenough, and the show where we
talk about how culture affectsleadership styles and how maybe
your cultural background plays arole in your ability to lead.
(01:01):
Does it, brett?
I don't know, what do you think?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Well, think about the branding of a country itself.
As we navigate the world and wehave perceptions and we're in
this global, interconnectedworld of social media and news
cycles that we perhaps have apresumption or an assumption of
country and its brand in theworld and of course those brands
come with it a certain amountof traits that we may imbue on
(01:28):
those countries and then itmight influence how we think
about the people that come outof that and whether we appoint
them as leaders or not.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So you're, in a position you're a board, maybe,
or you're a senior leadershipteam and you're looking to
appoint a leader for one of yourteams and you have candidates
from different nationalbackgrounds.
And what do you pay attentionto?
Will the nationality of thesecandidates play a role in your
(01:59):
decision making, or are you onlylooking at their track record,
at their education, at theirwhatever skill level metrics you
want to apply?
Will that be the only factorsthat you look at, or does the
country of origin factor intothat for you?
Well, we are here to tell youthat nationality may be the
(02:25):
wrong attribute to look at,because what does a nationality
tell you about somebody'sleadership style?
And yet we do recognize thatnationality, sometimes more
often than we'd like to admit,has been playing a role in how
people get assigned forleadership roles has been
(02:45):
playing a role in how people getassigned for leadership roles,
so let's think about some.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
we've identified six, maybe brands of certain
countries in the world that wethink people might be driven
towards drawing theirassumptions from.
First one is confidence.
So let's think about that.
What countries might we see asvery confident in the world?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Well, those who speak the loudest, right, those who
like to put themselves centerstage, into the spotlight,
national trades.
If there are any of those, well, let's keep in mind these are
largely overgeneralizedattributes that we ascribe to
certain nationalities,generalized attributes that we
(03:28):
ascribe to certain nationalities.
And yet, if you look at thestereotypical US Americans, they
tend to be not shy to seek thespotlight, to seek the attention
, to put themselves front andcenter and say, hey, I take
charge, I will lead, I findmyself capable, I can do this.
You find that in othernationalities as well.
My origin country of Germanyisn't shy of that.
(03:50):
You will find people in theGerman speaking world who will
speak up to take charge, quitedifferently from those in the US
.
And yet it's combined with thesecond trait, or the second
characteristic that we came upfor our list, which is Brett
Assertiveness.
Assertiveness, right, germanscan be quite assertive, as can
(04:14):
be people from the Netherlandsor from France or from Russia,
right, cultures that have abehavioral tendency to to assert
themselves, to seek for whatthey think is right, and if that
means to take charge of theleadership role, they will step
(04:34):
up to do that.
But back to confidence.
Which country cultures wouldyou see or do you think would be
perceived as being confident,brett?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, I think the US is one.
They certainly take a lot of thecycle of the news up in the
world and if people are workingwith Americans they do see that
there is a lot of confidence inthe information that they're
projecting, that they'redelivering, is done with a
certain degree of power, itassumes a sense of authority, so
(05:07):
it becomes almost like overwashing over, just taking over
the conversation in many ways.
You know so.
And then there's theassertiveness.
One is perhaps maybe even moreso, like you say, with those
cultures like yours ChristianGermany and those kinds of
things.
It's more a seriousness.
I mean, americans might do itin more of a friendly way.
The directness and theassertiveness that comes in
(05:30):
cultures that are a little bitmore to lower on the emotional
expression scale probably havethis perception that they are
good, decisive leaders and Ithink you've talked about also
Christian, you know and there'sthis misperception that perhaps
in a hierarchical culture likeyours that just the boss makes
all the decisions right, and Ithink that's a kind of a
(05:51):
misconception that you've taughtme about.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Talk a little bit about that too, I think if you
let me rewind that tape on thisthought, I think it really
depends on one of our sixfactors that we identify is the
country in which the company orthe organization is
headquartered in, or what do youcall it domicile country of an
(06:14):
organization.
So if we're looking at a forthe sake of this argument a
german organization looking forfilling a leadership position,
do they look for someone whorespects hierarchy?
Maybe, maybe not, depends onthe organization.
Germans are not as hierarchicalas one might think, especially
(06:35):
when it comes to decision making.
They're very consensual, andthat trips people up, because
there are noticeable hierarchiesin german organizations and yet
decision making sometimes takesforever because the group has
to be involved in the consensusbuilding, unlike, for example,
in the United States, where it'sa lot less hierarchical, and
yet decisions are made top down,because people are in a nominal
(06:59):
position of leadership andtherefore are given the
authority to decide, and do thatfairly quickly.
That's what they're paid for.
And yet to decide who gets theleadership job may very well
depend on the nationality of thecompany.
So do we pick one of ours?
So does it have to be someonewith the same passport as the
(07:22):
company's headquarters?
Will that make them a betterleader?
Because that candidate gets theorganizational culture better,
because they have a betterunderstanding of how the company
works, and thereforenationality is seen as a
qualifier, or perhaps as adisqualifier, for a strong,
(07:42):
otherwise strong candidate thatdoesn't come with the passport
that the organization would liketo see.
Is that a factor that shouldplay a role, or shouldn't it?
We argue it shouldn't, butwe'll put this up for discussion
.
We'll see what you say to this.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Absolutely.
So we touch on confidence,countries that might be seen as
being confident, countries thatmight be seen as assertive in
the world.
These can be kind ofintersectionality related to, of
course, some countries can havevarious, and then we've also,
as we just touched on, itdoesn't just naturally kind of
(08:21):
follow that a person from thecompany's country of where they
are headquartered in, wherethey've grown, where they've
kind of developed their DNA, isnaturally qualified for the job.
So that's not something that wejust automatically use to
influence our decisions.
So another one we get into.
The next one might be empathy.
(08:41):
We might see that certaincountries, certain cultures in
the world might express, wemight think about, empathy as
something that is, uh, that thatis inherent to those people in
that country.
One thing might be I'm justkind of just randomly might
think about japan.
I mean, we might think thatjapanese people are the whole
idea of the japanese mindset,especially when it comes to
(09:05):
things like you might thinkabout a community.
You know the way they look atcommunity, the way they support
each other.
Children are driven towardslooking after their parents into
old age and those kind ofthings.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, confucian principles throughout East Asia
play a part in that empathydevelopment right.
It's baked into the behavior ofa whole society Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
And yet some people might be surprised when they go
there that when it comes toleadership, that perhaps is not
expressed, you know, there mightbe some very kind of top-down
directed authority-drivendecision-making that perhaps
does not express that what wesee on the surface of a country.
So empathy doesn't the brandingof an empathetic culture, as
(09:55):
you say to the Confucian as anexample, is one that we don't
assume.
That necessarily washes overinto the corporate world as well
.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
And whether it's empathy or we would call it a
separate characteristic, butthat is intersectional as the
other ones that we had earlierperceived warmth behavior that
can be classified as quoteunquote warm, that means being
friendly, being a relationshipfocused personality or
(10:23):
individual, and we find culturesthat build trust much more
based on interpersonalrelationships and we find
cultures that build andestablish trust more based on
the successful completion oftasks.
Now, in some parts of the world,in some organizations, the task
(10:43):
focus, the task ability of acandidate may very well be the
deciding factor for whether ornot they're leadership material.
In other cultures, the abilityto be a trusting leader who, by
building these relationships, isable to evoke the highest
(11:04):
potential from every member ofthe team, may be considered a
fantastic leadership quality.
So whether or not someone isperceived as warm or cold, or
perceived as empathetic or moreI don't know elbows out in my
way or the highway, these arefactors that are often
(11:25):
attributed to certainnationalities, and whether or
not someone from a specificcountry displays these
stereotypical behaviors is not agiven.
So nationality does not alwaystell us about an individual's
behaviors and an individual'scharacteristics.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Absolutely, and status another one, another one
we're bringing into theconversation.
Do we basically assume that acertain country's status in the
world, their influence globally,is a natural predicator for the
leaders that come out of thatcountry to be qualified for
those jobs?
We would argue again no,probably not, because you can
(12:08):
find.
Certainly other countriesnecessarily don't have the same
kind of a sense of limelight inthe world, we don't hear about
them as much, and yet we workwith many leaders from these
countries that have highlyeducated, highly qualified and
have spent their time craftingtheir skills as leaders within
their own country country andare just as qualified and are
(12:30):
just full of the ability to beable to lead.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
And I wonder who decides or what makes that
status in people's minds ofcertain countries?
There are lists brandingagencies have been publishing
these lists the national brandor country branding how
countries are perceived aroundthe world in terms of status, in
(12:54):
terms of brand recognition.
And I often wonder how do weshape these opinions related to
a country status?
What shapes that?
Do we all have the same opinionof different nationalities?
I would like to doubt thatbecause I'm from Germany.
(13:15):
That's, I think, a really goodexample.
If I travel to anywhere inSouthern Europe, Mediterranean
Europe, in the last 15 years, Iwould be confronted with certain
opinions about my country basedon the foreign policy that is
formed in Germany and throughoutthe European Union.
(13:35):
That is based on the successrate of our national athletic
teams.
It is based on our economicstrength or weakness.
It's based on the perceivedlikability of people from the
country.
And then I go to North Americaand people would say about
(13:57):
Germany in North America andcompare that to what you hear
about Germany, let's say, inGreece or in Turkey, and these
two brand images do not reallyalign.
They're simply differentperceptions of a nationality.
So how safe can you be inascribing status to a specific
(14:18):
nationality, we say not verymuch.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yeah, well, I'll vouch for you, mate.
I think you're a pretty goodguy, so you know, I'm still
still working on that.
As are you.
Thank you very much.
Yes, well, I mean, I do thinkabout status in terms of my
country as well.
You know, you might not seeAustralian leaders being, you
know, putting themselves abovethe pack.
(14:43):
The value of leaders inAustralia is their ability to be
humble, their ability to kindof defray some of the attention
away from themselves and put aspotlight on the group itself.
And this is something in starkcontrast to America, of course,
where it's kind of it'sdifferent, where people are
calling themselves out and youknow it's a different kind of
level of competition.
I guess you know that, thatperception of competition.
(15:05):
You know that perception ofcompetition Maybe we could talk
about in terms of who tellsthese stories.
Of course, you know,historically, when you've got
powerful nations and colonialismand you've got, you know, we go
down the whole rabbit hole ofphilosophical, historical
references to winners alwaystell the stories right, they
write the book, they write thehistory books.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
And also, I think, whoever is in charge politically
in different countries shapesthe opinion of these countries
around the world.
I mean, there's been plenty ofsurveys and data collection done
about how do people view therelationship of their country
with three other countriesaround the world with three
other countries around the world, and the answers to these
surveys change depending on whois forming the government, who
is in charge of the country'spolitical leadership.
(15:54):
So the perception ofnationality could easily be
swayed one way or the otherdepending on what flavor of
politics or what flavor of theglobal economical macro trends
we're experiencing.
Right, there could be timeswhen we see in the Western world
, china as something togravitate towards.
(16:16):
We saw the Beijing Olympics andwas it 2008?
I'm guessing, I might be wrong.
So all of a sudden there was afavorable sentiment connected to
China, and then there was lessfavorable sentiment when trade
relations began to get a littlechoppy and there was friction.
And all of a sudden theperception of certain countries
(16:38):
changes and this is just oneexample from a very Western my
perspective.
And you ask anyone in CentralAfrica about how they view the
United States or Russia orBrazil, you'll hear different
stories.
So nationality as a marker forleadership capability is a
(16:59):
concept that is wrought with alot of built in error.
I would say Absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
That's our argument.
We would love to hear yours.
Tell us what you think aboutthe use of nationality as a
marker, as a predicator ofqualification for authority or
leadership in any organizationor any field of work.
That we do, of course, and wewould we'd dearly love to hear
from you.
And the way you do that is.
You can certainly just randomlychat with us on email and other
(17:29):
contact social media, but wewould like you to subscribe,
we'd like you to ring that belland we'd like you to follow
along and be a part of theconversation, because we're here
talking about culture, wheretoo much culture is barely
enough when it comes to globalbusiness, even more so today and
increasingly more into thefuture.
So we argue anything and ouropinions are just our opinions.
(17:53):
They don't represent otherorganizations that we may work
with, but we're just hereoffering what we've learned, I
guess, from working with many,many different people from
around the world andorganizations in a
cross-cultural setting.
So think about that.
Any other any other reasons toignore nationality when it comes
to leadership?
We'd be happy to hear from you.
(18:15):
All right, mate?
That's uh.
Two chaps, many cultures,another one in the can.
Thank you very much.
It's good to see you again,mate.
Um, we're both fresh back fromtraveling europe and other
places.
And elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
And elsewhere, it will not be disclosed.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
It won't be disclosed .
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Nationalities do not matter.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
No, nationalities don't matter, although I can
talk about a few experiencesI've had in different countries.
Yes, that's a whole differentepisode.
Two Chaps, many Cultures.
Thank you again for joining us.
Make sure you subscribe and wewill see you in the next episode
.
For now,
Today we're talking about the six reasons to ignore
leaders' nationality or thenationality of leaders.
Let's throw those words arounda little bit.
Does a country of origin givesomebody an automatic pathway to
leadership?
Let's talk about that.
Welcome to 2Chaps.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Many Cultures.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
In an increasingly globally connected world, it is
vital to possess the essentialskills of cultural intelligence.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Listen along as we present the topics, tips and
strategies you can use todevelop the power of cultural
understanding in your personaland professional life.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Here are your hosts Christian Huffala and Brett
Parry.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome back to Chaps Many Cultures, the show where
too much culture is barelyenough, and the show where we
talk about how culture affectsleadership styles and how maybe
your cultural background plays arole in your ability to lead.
(01:01):
Does it, brett?
I don't know, what do you think?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Well, think about the branding of a country itself.
As we navigate the world and wehave perceptions and we're in
this global, interconnectedworld of social media and news
cycles that we perhaps have apresumption or an assumption of
country and its brand in theworld and of course those brands
come with it a certain amountof traits that we may imbue on
(01:28):
those countries and then itmight influence how we think
about the people that come outof that and whether we appoint
them as leaders or not.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So you're, in a position you're a board, maybe,
or you're a senior leadershipteam and you're looking to
appoint a leader for one of yourteams and you have candidates
from different nationalbackgrounds.
And what do you pay attentionto?
Will the nationality of thesecandidates play a role in your
(01:59):
decision making, or are you onlylooking at their track record,
at their education, at theirwhatever skill level metrics you
want to apply?
Will that be the only factorsthat you look at, or does the
country of origin factor intothat for you?
Well, we are here to tell youthat nationality may be the
(02:25):
wrong attribute to look at,because what does a nationality
tell you about somebody'sleadership style?
And yet we do recognize thatnationality, sometimes more
often than we'd like to admit,has been playing a role in how
people get assigned forleadership roles has been
(02:45):
playing a role in how people getassigned for leadership roles,
so let's think about some.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
we've identified six, maybe brands of certain
countries in the world that wethink people might be driven
towards drawing theirassumptions from.
First one is confidence.
So let's think about that.
What countries might we see asvery confident in the world?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Well, those who speak the loudest, right, those who
like to put themselves centerstage, into the spotlight,
national trades.
If there are any of those, well, let's keep in mind these are
largely overgeneralizedattributes that we ascribe to
certain nationalities,generalized attributes that we
(03:28):
ascribe to certain nationalities.
And yet, if you look at thestereotypical US Americans, they
tend to be not shy to seek thespotlight, to seek the attention
, to put themselves front andcenter and say, hey, I take
charge, I will lead, I findmyself capable, I can do this.
You find that in othernationalities as well.
My origin country of Germanyisn't shy of that.
(03:50):
You will find people in theGerman speaking world who will
speak up to take charge, quitedifferently from those in the US
.
And yet it's combined with thesecond trait, or the second
characteristic that we came upfor our list, which is Brett
Assertiveness.
Assertiveness, right, germanscan be quite assertive, as can
(04:14):
be people from the Netherlandsor from France or from Russia,
right, cultures that have abehavioral tendency to to assert
themselves, to seek for whatthey think is right, and if that
means to take charge of theleadership role, they will step
(04:34):
up to do that.
But back to confidence.
Which country cultures wouldyou see or do you think would be
perceived as being confident,brett?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, I think the US is one.
They certainly take a lot of thecycle of the news up in the
world and if people are workingwith Americans they do see that
there is a lot of confidence inthe information that they're
projecting, that they'redelivering, is done with a
certain degree of power, itassumes a sense of authority, so
(05:07):
it becomes almost like overwashing over, just taking over
the conversation in many ways.
You know so.
And then there's theassertiveness.
One is perhaps maybe even moreso, like you say, with those
cultures like yours ChristianGermany and those kinds of
things.
It's more a seriousness.
I mean, americans might do itin more of a friendly way.
The directness and theassertiveness that comes in
(05:30):
cultures that are a little bitmore to lower on the emotional
expression scale probably havethis perception that they are
good, decisive leaders and Ithink you've talked about also
Christian, you know and there'sthis misperception that perhaps
in a hierarchical culture likeyours that just the boss makes
all the decisions right, and Ithink that's a kind of a
(05:51):
misconception that you've taughtme about.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Talk a little bit about that too, I think if you
let me rewind that tape on thisthought, I think it really
depends on one of our sixfactors that we identify is the
country in which the company orthe organization is
headquartered in, or what do youcall it domicile country of an
(06:14):
organization.
So if we're looking at a forthe sake of this argument a
german organization looking forfilling a leadership position,
do they look for someone whorespects hierarchy?
Maybe, maybe not, depends onthe organization.
Germans are not as hierarchicalas one might think, especially
(06:35):
when it comes to decision making.
They're very consensual, andthat trips people up, because
there are noticeable hierarchiesin german organizations and yet
decision making sometimes takesforever because the group has
to be involved in the consensusbuilding, unlike, for example,
in the United States, where it'sa lot less hierarchical, and
yet decisions are made top down,because people are in a nominal
(06:59):
position of leadership andtherefore are given the
authority to decide, and do thatfairly quickly.
That's what they're paid for.
And yet to decide who gets theleadership job may very well
depend on the nationality of thecompany.
So do we pick one of ours?
So does it have to be someonewith the same passport as the
(07:22):
company's headquarters?
Will that make them a betterleader?
Because that candidate gets theorganizational culture better,
because they have a betterunderstanding of how the company
works, and thereforenationality is seen as a
qualifier, or perhaps as adisqualifier, for a strong,
(07:42):
otherwise strong candidate thatdoesn't come with the passport
that the organization would liketo see.
Is that a factor that shouldplay a role, or shouldn't it?
We argue it shouldn't, butwe'll put this up for discussion
.
We'll see what you say to this.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Absolutely.
So we touch on confidence,countries that might be seen as
being confident, countries thatmight be seen as assertive in
the world.
These can be kind ofintersectionality related to, of
course, some countries can havevarious, and then we've also,
as we just touched on, itdoesn't just naturally kind of
(08:21):
follow that a person from thecompany's country of where they
are headquartered in, wherethey've grown, where they've
kind of developed their DNA, isnaturally qualified for the job.
So that's not something that wejust automatically use to
influence our decisions.
So another one we get into.
The next one might be empathy.
(08:41):
We might see that certaincountries, certain cultures in
the world might express, wemight think about, empathy as
something that is, uh, that thatis inherent to those people in
that country.
One thing might be I'm justkind of just randomly might
think about japan.
I mean, we might think thatjapanese people are the whole
idea of the japanese mindset,especially when it comes to
(09:05):
things like you might thinkabout a community.
You know the way they look atcommunity, the way they support
each other.
Children are driven towardslooking after their parents into
old age and those kind ofthings.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, confucian principles throughout East Asia
play a part in that empathydevelopment right.
It's baked into the behavior ofa whole society Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
And yet some people might be surprised when they go
there that when it comes toleadership, that perhaps is not
expressed, you know, there mightbe some very kind of top-down
directed authority-drivendecision-making that perhaps
does not express that what wesee on the surface of a country.
So empathy doesn't the brandingof an empathetic culture, as
(09:55):
you say to the Confucian as anexample, is one that we don't
assume.
That necessarily washes overinto the corporate world as well
.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
And whether it's empathy or we would call it a
separate characteristic, butthat is intersectional as the
other ones that we had earlierperceived warmth behavior that
can be classified as quoteunquote warm, that means being
friendly, being a relationshipfocused personality or
(10:23):
individual, and we find culturesthat build trust much more
based on interpersonalrelationships and we find
cultures that build andestablish trust more based on
the successful completion oftasks.
Now, in some parts of the world,in some organizations, the task
(10:43):
focus, the task ability of acandidate may very well be the
deciding factor for whether ornot they're leadership material.
In other cultures, the abilityto be a trusting leader who, by
building these relationships, isable to evoke the highest
(11:04):
potential from every member ofthe team, may be considered a
fantastic leadership quality.
So whether or not someone isperceived as warm or cold, or
perceived as empathetic or moreI don't know elbows out in my
way or the highway, these arefactors that are often
(11:25):
attributed to certainnationalities, and whether or
not someone from a specificcountry displays these
stereotypical behaviors is not agiven.
So nationality does not alwaystell us about an individual's
behaviors and an individual'scharacteristics.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Absolutely, and status another one, another one
we're bringing into theconversation.
Do we basically assume that acertain country's status in the
world, their influence globally,is a natural predicator for the
leaders that come out of thatcountry to be qualified for
those jobs?
We would argue again no,probably not, because you can
(12:08):
find.
Certainly other countriesnecessarily don't have the same
kind of a sense of limelight inthe world, we don't hear about
them as much, and yet we workwith many leaders from these
countries that have highlyeducated, highly qualified and
have spent their time craftingtheir skills as leaders within
their own country country andare just as qualified and are
(12:30):
just full of the ability to beable to lead.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
And I wonder who decides or what makes that
status in people's minds ofcertain countries?
There are lists brandingagencies have been publishing
these lists the national brandor country branding how
countries are perceived aroundthe world in terms of status, in
(12:54):
terms of brand recognition.
And I often wonder how do weshape these opinions related to
a country status?
What shapes that?
Do we all have the same opinionof different nationalities?
I would like to doubt thatbecause I'm from Germany.
(13:15):
That's, I think, a really goodexample.
If I travel to anywhere inSouthern Europe, Mediterranean
Europe, in the last 15 years, Iwould be confronted with certain
opinions about my country basedon the foreign policy that is
formed in Germany and throughoutthe European Union.
(13:35):
That is based on the successrate of our national athletic
teams.
It is based on our economicstrength or weakness.
It's based on the perceivedlikability of people from the
country.
And then I go to North Americaand people would say about
(13:57):
Germany in North America andcompare that to what you hear
about Germany, let's say, inGreece or in Turkey, and these
two brand images do not reallyalign.
They're simply differentperceptions of a nationality.
So how safe can you be inascribing status to a specific
(14:18):
nationality, we say not verymuch.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yeah, well, I'll vouch for you, mate.
I think you're a pretty goodguy, so you know, I'm still
still working on that.
As are you.
Thank you very much.
Yes, well, I mean, I do thinkabout status in terms of my
country as well.
You know, you might not seeAustralian leaders being, you
know, putting themselves abovethe pack.
(14:43):
The value of leaders inAustralia is their ability to be
humble, their ability to kindof defray some of the attention
away from themselves and put aspotlight on the group itself.
And this is something in starkcontrast to America, of course,
where it's kind of it'sdifferent, where people are
calling themselves out and youknow it's a different kind of
level of competition.
I guess you know that, thatperception of competition.
(15:05):
You know that perception ofcompetition Maybe we could talk
about in terms of who tellsthese stories.
Of course, you know,historically, when you've got
powerful nations and colonialismand you've got, you know, we go
down the whole rabbit hole ofphilosophical, historical
references to winners alwaystell the stories right, they
write the book, they write thehistory books.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
And also, I think, whoever is in charge politically
in different countries shapesthe opinion of these countries
around the world.
I mean, there's been plenty ofsurveys and data collection done
about how do people view therelationship of their country
with three other countriesaround the world with three
other countries around the world, and the answers to these
surveys change depending on whois forming the government, who
is in charge of the country'spolitical leadership.
(15:54):
So the perception ofnationality could easily be
swayed one way or the otherdepending on what flavor of
politics or what flavor of theglobal economical macro trends
we're experiencing.
Right, there could be timeswhen we see in the Western world
, china as something togravitate towards.
(16:16):
We saw the Beijing Olympics andwas it 2008?
I'm guessing, I might be wrong.
So all of a sudden there was afavorable sentiment connected to
China, and then there was lessfavorable sentiment when trade
relations began to get a littlechoppy and there was friction.
And all of a sudden theperception of certain countries
(16:38):
changes and this is just oneexample from a very Western my
perspective.
And you ask anyone in CentralAfrica about how they view the
United States or Russia orBrazil, you'll hear different
stories.
So nationality as a marker forleadership capability is a
(16:59):
concept that is wrought with alot of built in error.
I would say Absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
That's our argument.
We would love to hear yours.
Tell us what you think aboutthe use of nationality as a
marker, as a predicator ofqualification for authority or
leadership in any organizationor any field of work.
That we do, of course, and wewould we'd dearly love to hear
from you.
And the way you do that is.
You can certainly just randomlychat with us on email and other
(17:29):
contact social media, but wewould like you to subscribe,
we'd like you to ring that belland we'd like you to follow
along and be a part of theconversation, because we're here
talking about culture, wheretoo much culture is barely
enough when it comes to globalbusiness, even more so today and
increasingly more into thefuture.
So we argue anything and ouropinions are just our opinions.
(17:53):
They don't represent otherorganizations that we may work
with, but we're just hereoffering what we've learned, I
guess, from working with many,many different people from
around the world andorganizations in a
cross-cultural setting.
So think about that.
Any other any other reasons toignore nationality when it comes
to leadership?
We'd be happy to hear from you.
(18:15):
All right, mate?
That's uh.
Two chaps, many cultures,another one in the can.
Thank you very much.
It's good to see you again,mate.
Um, we're both fresh back fromtraveling europe and other
places.
And elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
And elsewhere, it will not be disclosed.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
It won't be disclosed .
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Nationalities do not matter.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
No, nationalities don't matter, although I can
talk about a few experiencesI've had in different countries.
Yes, that's a whole differentepisode.
Two Chaps, many Cultures.
Thank you again for joining us.
Make sure you subscribe and wewill see you in the next episode
.
For now,
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