August 20, 2024 โข 22 mins
When you are in the market for services or products, price will only be a concern in the absence of value. The same is true for cultural training, coaching, and consulting services. In this episode, we'll dive into the sometimes overlooked truth that opting for lower rates in cultural training can result in subpar outcomes. We'll explore why quality cultural training is an investment that pays off, especially in global business environments where understanding cultural nuances is crucial. Cheap services might seem like a good deal at first, but they often lack the depth, expertise, and tailored approach necessary to create meaningful and lasting change. Tune in as we discuss how to evaluate the true value of cultural training services and why the adage "you get what you pay for" rings especially true in this field.
๐๐ฌ๐ค ๐พ๐๐๐ฅ๐จ โ ๐๐๐ฃ๐ฎ ๐พ๐ช๐ก๐ฉ๐ช๐ง๐๐จ is the worldโs #1 show on the business of culture and the culture of business. Christian Hรถferle and Brett Parry ponder culture in short bursts and deep dives, featuring your questions and comments related to culture, business, and personal growth.
Be sure to check out and subscribe to our YouTube channel for even more great content: https://www.youtube.com/@TwoChapsManyCultures
Visit https://theculturemastery.com/ for more information about the skills for working in a global context.
The music on this episode is provided courtesy of Sepalot.
โDuum Diipโ - Artist: Sepalot - Label: Eskapaden - Copyright control
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So you're in the market for cultural training and
you look at all those differentvendors and you think you're
getting a really good dealbecause, darn it, they gave you
some rock-bottom price.
Careful, what you wish for,let's talk about how too cheap
might be not what you're lookingfor.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome to 2Chap.
Many Cultures.
In an increasingly globallyconnected world, it is vital to
possess the essential skills ofcultural intelligence.
Listen along as we present thetopics, tips and strategies you
can use to develop the power ofcultural understanding in your
personal and professional life.
(00:42):
Here are your hosts ChristianHuffala and.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Brett Parry.
Welcome back to Two Chaps ManyCultures where too much culture
is barely enough, and we aretalking about the business of
culture and the culture ofbusiness.
And as all businesses go, somebusinesses, actually all
businesses come through a periodof time where they become price
sensitive, and we're notsensitive enough to leave this
(01:11):
topic alone.
We're going to tackle it andbefore we do that, we're going
to ask you to subscribe.
Hit that bell and follow along,be part of the conversation, as
always.
Give us your thoughts on whatwe're talking about today.
And what we're talking abouttoday is cheap and nasty deals
and duds, those kind of things.
(01:32):
You know where it applies toall the parts of our life where
we always want to get a goodprice, a good deal.
But what you get for thosedeals and the price you pay for
it may influence the results youget.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
As one of my father's friends who drove a very flashy
, expensive car once said and Ioverheard this as a kid and he
said you know what?
I cannot afford to drive acheap vehicle.
And I didn't understand at thetime until my dad then took me
aside and said what he meant wascheap vehicles fall apart
(02:07):
easily and they need a lot ofrepair and they're not very
reliable.
So this guy was ratherinvesting in a more pricey form
of transportation and he had thepeace of mind that the car
would always work and take himwherever he needed to go.
So, car metaphors aside, youget what you pay for right.
(02:29):
And if you are budget consciousbecause of current market
situations, market developments,we understand it that you will
search for the best deal you canget.
After all, most of us operatein a somewhat capitalist free
market environment and priceonly becomes an issue in the
(02:53):
absence of value and we look forwhat is best for us.
And if you are a companyshopping for cultural training
and price is important to you,then we still applaud you,
because that means you didn'trule out cultural training from
the service lines you'reoffering to your team members,
(03:14):
so you still see the value in it.
You just may be in a pinch fora little bit, and we respect
that.
I don't know, brett, how muchflexibility you give your
clients in the pricing.
In our company we do our bestto work with our client
situations and we don't alwayscharge the same prices for the
(03:35):
same companies, depending onwhat the content construct is,
what the market scenario is.
So we can be flexible, butthere are limits.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Of course, and I think the approach is I've
always found the approach is amenu approach, so that you
obviously have a certain set ofvalue items that are included in
your offering, and so peoplecan kind of have the full a la
carte experience.
And if you give them all ofthat up front, then it's up to
(04:08):
them.
Rather than discount what we'redoing, we say we can certainly
make it more inexpensive, it'sjust what you're getting will be
less and that's okay too.
You're still going to get thevalue.
That's's the important thing.
We're talking about value andprice as two separate things.
I always use the analogy of mytime doing music.
(04:29):
Of course you have to make thecase from an approach where
you've had an experience oflearning your craft, learning
music, learning how to sing,train your voice, play your
instruments, all of those kindof things.
When somebody approaches youwith an offer to go and play in
their bar or something like that, they sometimes just think
(04:50):
they're paying you for the twoor three hours that you're
playing.
But there is a.
You know, both Christian and Ihave gone through intentional
approaches to our education, ourbackground, just as everybody
in our industry has Reallyreally caring people.
This is an industry that bringswith it a duty of care.
So to do that and deliver theright amount, the good amount of
(05:16):
value, we take it uponourselves to do courses.
You can see I've got somecertificates behind me.
It doesn't mean I want to makemyself look smart, it makes me
just kind of show people thatI've gone and I've actually
educated myself to come withthat duty of care.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Now, why are we talking about this?
Why is this important all of asudden?
Well, it's been important inour industry for a while and
I've had, and Brett and Iindependently had conversations
with potential customers withsome competitors in the field as
well, on where the value is,where is the sweet spot in the
market.
And turns out there is a lot ofbusiness done in our field at
(06:02):
prices that I will not be ableto offer to clients and I have
told clients no.
Because of that, politely andwith all the love I can muster
for them, asking for that levelof pricing, I said I cannot
afford to send somebody to youdoing the work who is willing to
(06:25):
accept this little money,because you will inevitably end
up being underserved.
We will not do your people good, we will not serve you well
enough.
And is price always anindicator of the level of
quality you receive?
No it's not.
(06:45):
And yet I've seen companies outin the field.
I'm not bad-mouthingcompetitors, that's not what
we're doing, but we've seenprices in the field that are not
sustainable and they somecompanies do this because they
are catching huge volumecontracts with clients and they
(07:09):
make it up in the volume.
It usually ends up culturalfacilitators, trainers, coaches
being underpaid and that is, Ithink, a shame, and that in my
business.
I don't want that.
I've been underpaid in theearly days of my career.
I don't want the trainers,facilitators, coaches that work
(07:31):
with us, with the CultureMastery or with your, your
company, brett.
I don't want them to have a badtaste in their mouth after they
work with us.
I want them to be fairlycompensated of course this comes
.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
what comes into play here is when you are actually
sourcing out vendors.
You're having discussions withvendors.
I mean, what are some of theways you could some set off some
red flags?
Uh, this may sound a littlestrange, but I think the most
confident people that are justthrowing stuff at you and say we
can do anything right, we candeliver everything and we can do
(08:04):
it at such a cheap price, Imean I'm a little wary of those
people If people are not comingto you from this field with a
sense of humility, with sayingthat we believe in our knowledge
but we know that we don't knowit all, and with a price that is
reflective of the value thatthey're going to bring,
(08:25):
understanding that they may haveto search out.
I say to my clients all the timeyou can ask me any question you
want to.
I think by now I'm pretty goodand Christian's the same at
answering most of thosequestions in real time.
But if we don't know it, we'vegot to be humble enough to say
we don't know it, and that'svalue too.
That's where I see that as avalue.
(08:47):
If somebody is just saying justdon't worry about it, just give
us your couple of bucks andwe'll do everything you want.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
it's usually a red flag I would agree, and it's
interesting because in my in allthese years I've been working
in this field, I talk to othercorporate trainers, to
facilitators, who do small,large groups, whatever it is,
and who are not in the culturaltraining field per se.
(09:15):
Maybe they're in leadershipdevelopment, maybe they are, I
don't know, any type of, I wouldsay, corporate learning and
development professional.
The day rates or hourly ratesthat they ask in fields outside
of the cultural intelligenceworld sometimes surprise me
(09:36):
because they're substantiallyhigher than the average market
rates in the cultural trainingfield.
Which made me wonder is onelearning and development field
more valuable than another?
Is teaching your team members,your employees, the people in
(09:58):
your organization that you wantto be successful in a global
context?
Are these skills comparablymore valuable or not?
I would say they're not.
I think cultural training isjust as important and relevant
as certain leadership skills,certain quote-unquote subject
(10:21):
matter hard skills.
Over the years, when it becamesuch a ubiquitous thing to do in
the boom years of the early2000s, to invest in expatriate
training and interculturalcommunication training that
(10:45):
there was enough competition tokeep those rates down.
And now, in recent years, we'veseen market contractions.
The prices haven't kept up withneither inflation nor the
market overall.
So I'm a bit weary whencompanies, just like you said,
come in and say well, we can doit all and we can do it for this
price and it's all going to befine and dandy and you will be
(11:07):
happy, I'm probably notsurprising you when I say, no,
you won't be happy.
You will kick yourself forgoing down the pricing route.
I'm not saying every cheapprogram is bad quality.
That's not what we're saying.
But price is not the mainindicator for the value you will
(11:30):
receive.
So it doesn't mean that themost pricey programs will be the
best ones either.
Just be mindful of how yourvendors are structuring their
programs, what they are pricingfor what reasons.
Let them explain in fulltransparency why it is supposed
to cost this or that much.
There's usually a reasoningbehind it, and if your vendor
(11:51):
can't give you that reasoning,walk away.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Well, the clients that we work with that are
supplying destination culturaltraining.
This is one-on-one with afamily.
That can be actually quite at apremium because you really got
one facilitator with one personand by its very nature.
But I want to suggest also, ifyou're thinking about this,
don't just think about theperson that's on the receiving
(12:17):
end of that, because what you'regiving that person, that
executive, she may be going intoan environment where what you
teach her she's able to pass onto other team members.
So think of the multiplicationof this information that you're
giving.
If that helps you rationalise apremium cost for an executive
(12:38):
who's going into a host countrythat needs that extra context.
That's going to need thatunderstand their communication
skills, their leadership skills,how they're going to get
credibility but also to be ableto pass it on to the team and,
writ large, it's going to affectthe performance of the team
that she works with.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah, but, brett, there's all these apps and they
can learn from on the go, and Idon't need a facilitator with a
warm pulse in the room if theycan learn virtually, with an
asynchronous platform, and thosecost only a fraction of what
you're charging me.
So explain those prices.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Sure, well, I can.
Actually, my experience withDuolingo might be a good thing
to bring up, because, you know,I've tried to reinforce my
Polish skills with the Duolingoand I like the gamification of
it, but I've kind of realizedI've hit a point where it.
But I've kind of realized I'vehit a point where it's really
not serving me from a personalpoint of view.
And what am I talking aboutthere?
(13:39):
Well, I operate in a differentmodality than, say, christian or
somebody else who might belearning that language, and my
modality, I know, is morerelationship focused.
So I want I probably feel now Iwant to really stop on Duolingo
and re-engage with theday-to-day conversations.
(14:00):
Obviously, I get to do thatevery day with my family, but to
me it was a realization thatthis learning style had kind of
run its course right.
It was good, fun, there wasgamification in it.
However, if you think about thatkind of online apps and that
kind of thing, that's aone-size-fits-all right and
(14:23):
that's fine.
It's good for initial.
But in our experience and weknow this because we're in the
training room with people allthe time we have to think on our
feet.
We have to observe thecommunication style, the
learning style of the peoplethat we're engaged with and we
also have to listen intently forthe things between the lines
(14:43):
that they're asking us and beable to do that.
An app can't do that.
As good as we think AI is goingto be, this is a truly human
endeavor and we sit amongstpeople where it gets very
emotional, it gets very personal.
An app can't do that.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
And it gets very granular too, and the situations
that each program participantshares with us is a nuance
different from the one that wehad in the training before, and
the the scenarios that ourprogram participants share with
us are human interactionsbetween individuals, and they
(15:23):
are all different.
So, no, no critical incidentscenario is ever the same.
And, yes, ai is getting betterand it's doing its job in
harvesting data and informationthat has already been
pre-produced.
Now, what the humanintelligence does, what a live
(15:43):
trainer does with your employees, with you, with you, if you,
the participant is beingsituationally aware of what's
going on in your world and howto help you work through your
intercultural challenges on thefly and I'm sorry, I haven't
seen an eye do that yet- yeah,that's right.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
And so I think, if you're in the market for
cultural training and you areassessing vendors and you're
having conversations with people, you're obviously not your
first time around the block intalking to those people.
But listen a little bit moreintently.
And, yes, the pricing is goingto be a consideration, of course
.
Consideration of course, butthe way that you have
(16:37):
conversations, by the way, we'veactually been called in.
Where the cheap approach hasnot worked, we've had to come
and fix and it's not that we'repoo-pooing what's been come
before us.
They've, probably with all thebest intentions in the world,
tried to deliver something thatis of quality, um, and it's got
nothing to do with the peoplethat are doing it.
It could be just the style, itcould be just the approach, it
(16:57):
could be miscommunication.
In terms of that, what we'retalking about the initial
conversations, the, the factfinding part of the mission
right to find out what is reallyneeded.
Uh, again, those conversationsthat christian and I have have
with customers.
I guess it becomes a minitraining in and of itself,
wouldn't you agree?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
mate.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
You have to kind of like take them through some of
this process.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yes, we do, and I happily do so, and sometimes,
when there is a bit of aresistance, I am not shy to make
bold comparisons right.
So if you, as the organizationscouring the market for the best
provider for your culturalintelligence training in your
organization, obviously you'regoing to kick the tires on
(17:41):
multiple offerings and that'syou do.
Diligence that I would expectof you and I also would expect
that you see your ownorganization whatever it is you
do or produce, or the widget orservice or product that you
provide that you have ideally ahigh opinion of the quality of
(18:03):
product service that you provideto your clients.
So if you're driving a premiumvehicle and you're kicking tires
on vendors, you're not going toput discount tires on your
premium vehicle, would you?
But sometimes people do, theyget cheap on the wrong end and
(18:24):
the outcome is not necessarilywhat they expected or what they
were hoping for.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
They're doing their own people a disservice yeah,
you could end up sliding off theroad, just to follow that
metaphor.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Not having enough traction moving forward, that's
right.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Absolutely so.
Think about your interactions,think about how you've
approached your sourcing of thecultural training in the past or
any, I guess, any type ofcoaching, any type of leadership
development, talent developmentthat you've done in the past.
You know, just a reminder, agentle reminder, from us who are
in the room with these peopleand we see the outcomes and
(19:05):
effects that it has.
And I guess the gratitude, theappreciation when we work with
people we get a lot of peoplethat share appreciation with us
that they themselves didn't knowreally what to expect when it
came to cultural training orcultural intelligence,
leadership development, talentdevelopment.
And when the magic happens inthe room, and you know, I'm very
(19:28):
grateful that people sharethose positive, that positive
feedback with us.
Obviously the people thatsource it are not always in the
room to hear that we try andkind of send that feedback to
those people.
But just think about that.
You know, put yourself in theshoes.
You know, put yourself in theshoes of the international
assignee or the person who'sjust landed in a multicultural
(19:50):
environment and kind of feels alittle bit discombobulated in
terms of their ownself-awareness and what they're
observing.
And you know, think again aboutthe people.
It is a people business and youknow the premium comes in
taking care of them.
And the question is you knowwhat is an appropriate amount of
money you're willing to spendon supporting the very best of
(20:14):
your people and theirdevelopment?
Speaker 1 (20:17):
And allow me to rephrase that You're not
spending on your people.
You're investing in theirdevelopment and you're investing
in their abilities to performat the level that serves your
company and improves yourprofitability.
So in a free market, what goesaround comes around, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
That's a good song.
What Goes Around Comes Around.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Are you going to sing it for us?
No, no, not this time.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
It's a Friday afternoon and, by the way, you'd
have to pay for that, becauseI've spent years and years
training my voice and I'm notgoing to give it away for free.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
I'm being facetious, yearstraining my voice and I'm not
going to give it away for free.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
I'm being facetious, of course,um, but please again, uh,
follow along, uh, subscribe tothe channel youtube channel, the
two chaps youtube channel orthe podcast on the many
(21:06):
platforms now available oniheart radio I keep saying that
because we're on radio whichwhich we've got good heads for
and subscribe, follow along andjoin the conversation.
Tell us what's your experience,what's been your experience?
Have you found a solutionthat's been really cheap, that's
(21:28):
worked great and over yourexpectations?
We would love to hear thoseexamples, if there are out there
.
Sometimes there are, but maybenot.
We see the opposite many times.
So, good to see you again, myfriend, for another week.
Another episode in the can,where too much culture is barely
(21:49):
enough, and, yeah, any bigplans for the weekend, my friend
.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I'm going to be a big spender.
Of course I'm not going to becheap this weekend.
I'm investing in myself.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Oh good, that's an important thing.
Excellent, all right, that's it.
Take care, my friend.
All right, see you, mate.
Bye for now.
Bye.
So you're in the market for cultural training and
you look at all those differentvendors and you think you're
getting a really good dealbecause, darn it, they gave you
some rock-bottom price.
Careful, what you wish for,let's talk about how too cheap
might be not what you're lookingfor.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome to 2Chap.
Many Cultures.
In an increasingly globallyconnected world, it is vital to
possess the essential skills ofcultural intelligence.
Listen along as we present thetopics, tips and strategies you
can use to develop the power ofcultural understanding in your
personal and professional life.
(00:42):
Here are your hosts ChristianHuffala and.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Brett Parry.
Welcome back to Two Chaps ManyCultures where too much culture
is barely enough, and we aretalking about the business of
culture and the culture ofbusiness.
And as all businesses go, somebusinesses, actually all
businesses come through a periodof time where they become price
sensitive, and we're notsensitive enough to leave this
(01:11):
topic alone.
We're going to tackle it andbefore we do that, we're going
to ask you to subscribe.
Hit that bell and follow along,be part of the conversation, as
always.
Give us your thoughts on whatwe're talking about today.
And what we're talking abouttoday is cheap and nasty deals
and duds, those kind of things.
(01:32):
You know where it applies toall the parts of our life where
we always want to get a goodprice, a good deal.
But what you get for thosedeals and the price you pay for
it may influence the results youget.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
As one of my father's friends who drove a very flashy
, expensive car once said and Ioverheard this as a kid and he
said you know what?
I cannot afford to drive acheap vehicle.
And I didn't understand at thetime until my dad then took me
aside and said what he meant wascheap vehicles fall apart
(02:07):
easily and they need a lot ofrepair and they're not very
reliable.
So this guy was ratherinvesting in a more pricey form
of transportation and he had thepeace of mind that the car
would always work and take himwherever he needed to go.
So, car metaphors aside, youget what you pay for right.
(02:29):
And if you are budget consciousbecause of current market
situations, market developments,we understand it that you will
search for the best deal you canget.
After all, most of us operatein a somewhat capitalist free
market environment and priceonly becomes an issue in the
(02:53):
absence of value and we look forwhat is best for us.
And if you are a companyshopping for cultural training
and price is important to you,then we still applaud you,
because that means you didn'trule out cultural training from
the service lines you'reoffering to your team members,
(03:14):
so you still see the value in it.
You just may be in a pinch fora little bit, and we respect
that.
I don't know, brett, how muchflexibility you give your
clients in the pricing.
In our company we do our bestto work with our client
situations and we don't alwayscharge the same prices for the
(03:35):
same companies, depending onwhat the content construct is,
what the market scenario is.
So we can be flexible, butthere are limits.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Of course, and I think the approach is I've
always found the approach is amenu approach, so that you
obviously have a certain set ofvalue items that are included in
your offering, and so peoplecan kind of have the full a la
carte experience.
And if you give them all ofthat up front, then it's up to
(04:08):
them.
Rather than discount what we'redoing, we say we can certainly
make it more inexpensive, it'sjust what you're getting will be
less and that's okay too.
You're still going to get thevalue.
That's's the important thing.
We're talking about value andprice as two separate things.
I always use the analogy of mytime doing music.
(04:29):
Of course you have to make thecase from an approach where
you've had an experience oflearning your craft, learning
music, learning how to sing,train your voice, play your
instruments, all of those kindof things.
When somebody approaches youwith an offer to go and play in
their bar or something like that, they sometimes just think
(04:50):
they're paying you for the twoor three hours that you're
playing.
But there is a.
You know, both Christian and Ihave gone through intentional
approaches to our education, ourbackground, just as everybody
in our industry has Reallyreally caring people.
This is an industry that bringswith it a duty of care.
So to do that and deliver theright amount, the good amount of
(05:16):
value, we take it uponourselves to do courses.
You can see I've got somecertificates behind me.
It doesn't mean I want to makemyself look smart, it makes me
just kind of show people thatI've gone and I've actually
educated myself to come withthat duty of care.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Now, why are we talking about this?
Why is this important all of asudden?
Well, it's been important inour industry for a while and
I've had, and Brett and Iindependently had conversations
with potential customers withsome competitors in the field as
well, on where the value is,where is the sweet spot in the
market.
And turns out there is a lot ofbusiness done in our field at
(06:02):
prices that I will not be ableto offer to clients and I have
told clients no.
Because of that, politely andwith all the love I can muster
for them, asking for that levelof pricing, I said I cannot
afford to send somebody to youdoing the work who is willing to
(06:25):
accept this little money,because you will inevitably end
up being underserved.
We will not do your people good, we will not serve you well
enough.
And is price always anindicator of the level of
quality you receive?
No it's not.
(06:45):
And yet I've seen companies outin the field.
I'm not bad-mouthingcompetitors, that's not what
we're doing, but we've seenprices in the field that are not
sustainable and they somecompanies do this because they
are catching huge volumecontracts with clients and they
(07:09):
make it up in the volume.
It usually ends up culturalfacilitators, trainers, coaches
being underpaid and that is, Ithink, a shame, and that in my
business.
I don't want that.
I've been underpaid in theearly days of my career.
I don't want the trainers,facilitators, coaches that work
(07:31):
with us, with the CultureMastery or with your, your
company, brett.
I don't want them to have a badtaste in their mouth after they
work with us.
I want them to be fairlycompensated of course this comes
.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
what comes into play here is when you are actually
sourcing out vendors.
You're having discussions withvendors.
I mean, what are some of theways you could some set off some
red flags?
Uh, this may sound a littlestrange, but I think the most
confident people that are justthrowing stuff at you and say we
can do anything right, we candeliver everything and we can do
(08:04):
it at such a cheap price, Imean I'm a little wary of those
people If people are not comingto you from this field with a
sense of humility, with sayingthat we believe in our knowledge
but we know that we don't knowit all, and with a price that is
reflective of the value thatthey're going to bring,
(08:25):
understanding that they may haveto search out.
I say to my clients all the timeyou can ask me any question you
want to.
I think by now I'm pretty goodand Christian's the same at
answering most of thosequestions in real time.
But if we don't know it, we'vegot to be humble enough to say
we don't know it, and that'svalue too.
That's where I see that as avalue.
(08:47):
If somebody is just saying justdon't worry about it, just give
us your couple of bucks andwe'll do everything you want.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
it's usually a red flag I would agree, and it's
interesting because in my in allthese years I've been working
in this field, I talk to othercorporate trainers, to
facilitators, who do small,large groups, whatever it is,
and who are not in the culturaltraining field per se.
(09:15):
Maybe they're in leadershipdevelopment, maybe they are, I
don't know, any type of, I wouldsay, corporate learning and
development professional.
The day rates or hourly ratesthat they ask in fields outside
of the cultural intelligenceworld sometimes surprise me
(09:36):
because they're substantiallyhigher than the average market
rates in the cultural trainingfield.
Which made me wonder is onelearning and development field
more valuable than another?
Is teaching your team members,your employees, the people in
(09:58):
your organization that you wantto be successful in a global
context?
Are these skills comparablymore valuable or not?
I would say they're not.
I think cultural training isjust as important and relevant
as certain leadership skills,certain quote-unquote subject
(10:21):
matter hard skills.
Over the years, when it becamesuch a ubiquitous thing to do in
the boom years of the early2000s, to invest in expatriate
training and interculturalcommunication training that
(10:45):
there was enough competition tokeep those rates down.
And now, in recent years, we'veseen market contractions.
The prices haven't kept up withneither inflation nor the
market overall.
So I'm a bit weary whencompanies, just like you said,
come in and say well, we can doit all and we can do it for this
price and it's all going to befine and dandy and you will be
(11:07):
happy, I'm probably notsurprising you when I say, no,
you won't be happy.
You will kick yourself forgoing down the pricing route.
I'm not saying every cheapprogram is bad quality.
That's not what we're saying.
But price is not the mainindicator for the value you will
(11:30):
receive.
So it doesn't mean that themost pricey programs will be the
best ones either.
Just be mindful of how yourvendors are structuring their
programs, what they are pricingfor what reasons.
Let them explain in fulltransparency why it is supposed
to cost this or that much.
There's usually a reasoningbehind it, and if your vendor
(11:51):
can't give you that reasoning,walk away.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Well, the clients that we work with that are
supplying destination culturaltraining.
This is one-on-one with afamily.
That can be actually quite at apremium because you really got
one facilitator with one personand by its very nature.
But I want to suggest also, ifyou're thinking about this,
don't just think about theperson that's on the receiving
(12:17):
end of that, because what you'regiving that person, that
executive, she may be going intoan environment where what you
teach her she's able to pass onto other team members.
So think of the multiplicationof this information that you're
giving.
If that helps you rationalise apremium cost for an executive
(12:38):
who's going into a host countrythat needs that extra context.
That's going to need thatunderstand their communication
skills, their leadership skills,how they're going to get
credibility but also to be ableto pass it on to the team and,
writ large, it's going to affectthe performance of the team
that she works with.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah, but, brett, there's all these apps and they
can learn from on the go, and Idon't need a facilitator with a
warm pulse in the room if theycan learn virtually, with an
asynchronous platform, and thosecost only a fraction of what
you're charging me.
So explain those prices.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Sure, well, I can.
Actually, my experience withDuolingo might be a good thing
to bring up, because, you know,I've tried to reinforce my
Polish skills with the Duolingoand I like the gamification of
it, but I've kind of realizedI've hit a point where it.
But I've kind of realized I'vehit a point where it's really
not serving me from a personalpoint of view.
And what am I talking aboutthere?
(13:39):
Well, I operate in a differentmodality than, say, christian or
somebody else who might belearning that language, and my
modality, I know, is morerelationship focused.
So I want I probably feel now Iwant to really stop on Duolingo
and re-engage with theday-to-day conversations.
(14:00):
Obviously, I get to do thatevery day with my family, but to
me it was a realization thatthis learning style had kind of
run its course right.
It was good, fun, there wasgamification in it.
However, if you think about thatkind of online apps and that
kind of thing, that's aone-size-fits-all right and
(14:23):
that's fine.
It's good for initial.
But in our experience and weknow this because we're in the
training room with people allthe time we have to think on our
feet.
We have to observe thecommunication style, the
learning style of the peoplethat we're engaged with and we
also have to listen intently forthe things between the lines
(14:43):
that they're asking us and beable to do that.
An app can't do that.
As good as we think AI is goingto be, this is a truly human
endeavor and we sit amongstpeople where it gets very
emotional, it gets very personal.
An app can't do that.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
And it gets very granular too, and the situations
that each program participantshares with us is a nuance
different from the one that wehad in the training before, and
the the scenarios that ourprogram participants share with
us are human interactionsbetween individuals, and they
(15:23):
are all different.
So, no, no critical incidentscenario is ever the same.
And, yes, ai is getting betterand it's doing its job in
harvesting data and informationthat has already been
pre-produced.
Now, what the humanintelligence does, what a live
(15:43):
trainer does with your employees, with you, with you, if you,
the participant is beingsituationally aware of what's
going on in your world and howto help you work through your
intercultural challenges on thefly and I'm sorry, I haven't
seen an eye do that yet- yeah,that's right.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
And so I think, if you're in the market for
cultural training and you areassessing vendors and you're
having conversations with people, you're obviously not your
first time around the block intalking to those people.
But listen a little bit moreintently.
And, yes, the pricing is goingto be a consideration, of course
.
Consideration of course, butthe way that you have
(16:37):
conversations, by the way, we'veactually been called in.
Where the cheap approach hasnot worked, we've had to come
and fix and it's not that we'repoo-pooing what's been come
before us.
They've, probably with all thebest intentions in the world,
tried to deliver something thatis of quality, um, and it's got
nothing to do with the peoplethat are doing it.
It could be just the style, itcould be just the approach, it
(16:57):
could be miscommunication.
In terms of that, what we'retalking about the initial
conversations, the, the factfinding part of the mission
right to find out what is reallyneeded.
Uh, again, those conversationsthat christian and I have have
with customers.
I guess it becomes a minitraining in and of itself,
wouldn't you agree?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
mate.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
You have to kind of like take them through some of
this process.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yes, we do, and I happily do so, and sometimes,
when there is a bit of aresistance, I am not shy to make
bold comparisons right.
So if you, as the organizationscouring the market for the best
provider for your culturalintelligence training in your
organization, obviously you'regoing to kick the tires on
(17:41):
multiple offerings and that'syou do.
Diligence that I would expectof you and I also would expect
that you see your ownorganization whatever it is you
do or produce, or the widget orservice or product that you
provide that you have ideally ahigh opinion of the quality of
(18:03):
product service that you provideto your clients.
So if you're driving a premiumvehicle and you're kicking tires
on vendors, you're not going toput discount tires on your
premium vehicle, would you?
But sometimes people do, theyget cheap on the wrong end and
(18:24):
the outcome is not necessarilywhat they expected or what they
were hoping for.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
They're doing their own people a disservice yeah,
you could end up sliding off theroad, just to follow that
metaphor.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Not having enough traction moving forward, that's
right.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Absolutely so.
Think about your interactions,think about how you've
approached your sourcing of thecultural training in the past or
any, I guess, any type ofcoaching, any type of leadership
development, talent developmentthat you've done in the past.
You know, just a reminder, agentle reminder, from us who are
in the room with these peopleand we see the outcomes and
(19:05):
effects that it has.
And I guess the gratitude, theappreciation when we work with
people we get a lot of peoplethat share appreciation with us
that they themselves didn't knowreally what to expect when it
came to cultural training orcultural intelligence,
leadership development, talentdevelopment.
And when the magic happens inthe room, and you know, I'm very
(19:28):
grateful that people sharethose positive, that positive
feedback with us.
Obviously the people thatsource it are not always in the
room to hear that we try andkind of send that feedback to
those people.
But just think about that.
You know, put yourself in theshoes.
You know, put yourself in theshoes of the international
assignee or the person who'sjust landed in a multicultural
(19:50):
environment and kind of feels alittle bit discombobulated in
terms of their ownself-awareness and what they're
observing.
And you know, think again aboutthe people.
It is a people business and youknow the premium comes in
taking care of them.
And the question is you knowwhat is an appropriate amount of
money you're willing to spendon supporting the very best of
(20:14):
your people and theirdevelopment?
Speaker 1 (20:17):
And allow me to rephrase that You're not
spending on your people.
You're investing in theirdevelopment and you're investing
in their abilities to performat the level that serves your
company and improves yourprofitability.
So in a free market, what goesaround comes around, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
That's a good song.
What Goes Around Comes Around.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Are you going to sing it for us?
No, no, not this time.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
It's a Friday afternoon and, by the way, you'd
have to pay for that, becauseI've spent years and years
training my voice and I'm notgoing to give it away for free.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
I'm being facetious, yearstraining my voice and I'm not
going to give it away for free.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
I'm being facetious, of course,um, but please again, uh,
follow along, uh, subscribe tothe channel youtube channel, the
two chaps youtube channel orthe podcast on the many
(21:06):
platforms now available oniheart radio I keep saying that
because we're on radio whichwhich we've got good heads for
and subscribe, follow along andjoin the conversation.
Tell us what's your experience,what's been your experience?
Have you found a solutionthat's been really cheap, that's
(21:28):
worked great and over yourexpectations?
We would love to hear thoseexamples, if there are out there
.
Sometimes there are, but maybenot.
We see the opposite many times.
So, good to see you again, myfriend, for another week.
Another episode in the can,where too much culture is barely
(21:49):
enough, and, yeah, any bigplans for the weekend, my friend
.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I'm going to be a big spender.
Of course I'm not going to becheap this weekend.
I'm investing in myself.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Oh good, that's an important thing.
Excellent, all right, that's it.
Take care, my friend.
All right, see you, mate.
Bye for now.
Bye.
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