June 11, 2024 โข 24 mins
Can a football tournament reshape a nation's identity? Join us as we explore the cultural impact of the UEFA Euro 2024, hosted by Germany. This episode takes you on a journey through the power of major sports events to redefine national narratives and challenge stereotypes. Reflecting on Germany's transformation during the 2006 World Cup, we discuss how countries use such platforms to showcase their diversity and tell new stories through their athletes and teams. We also look at the broader European context, focusing on the connections and conflicts that shape the region, and the critical role of cultural understanding in fostering unity and spirited competition.
Football and cricket aren't just games; they are reflections of societal attitudes and cultural nuances. Our conversation dives into the contrasting communication styles among fans, particularly between the British and German supporters, from their chants to their cultural expressions during tournaments. We also highlight the importance of hosting international events in promoting European unity and hospitality amidst today's geopolitical challenges. Concluding with an examination of the multicultural composition of national teams, we underscore how these teams mirror the diverse and interconnected nature of modern European societies. Tune in for an enlightening discussion on the cultural richness that underpins the world of international sports.
๐๐ฌ๐ค ๐พ๐๐๐ฅ๐จ โ ๐๐๐ฃ๐ฎ ๐พ๐ช๐ก๐ฉ๐ช๐ง๐๐จ is the worldโs #1 show on the business of culture and the culture of business. Christian Hรถferle and Brett Parry ponder culture in short bursts and deep dives, featuring your questions and comments related to culture, business, and personal growth.
Be sure to check out and subscribe to our YouTube channel for even more great content: https://www.youtube.com/@TwoChapsManyCultures
Visit https://theculturemastery.com/ for more information about the skills for working in a global context.
The music on this episode is provided courtesy of Sepalot.
โDuum Diipโ - Artist: Sepalot - Label: Eskapaden - Copyright control
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
One might say competition is in the soul of
all humans.
We do battle in friendly terms,we do battle in enemy terms,
whether it be war, whether it besport.
And today we don't want to talkabout war, we want to talk
about sport.
However, sport oftentimesembeds a little bit of politics.
A little bit of regionalunderstanding is important to
(00:23):
know what's happening in certainbig events.
We're going to talk about onecertain big event today.
What things can we learn aboutthe cultural aspect of the hosts
, of the participants, and howthat makes the competition
worthwhile to watch?
Let's stick around and talkabout that.
Welcome to 2 Chaps.
Many Cultures.
In an increasingly globallyconnected world, it is vital to
(00:47):
possess the essential skills ofcultural intelligence.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Listen along as we present the topics, tips and
strategies you can use todevelop the power of cultural
understanding in your personaland professional life.
(01:15):
Here are your hosts, christianHuffala and Brett Parry.
Professional life here are yourhosts, christian.
Uefa Euro Cup the soccertournament.
Did I say soccer?
I meant football tournament.
Let's take the terminologyright.
Let's be real here for a second.
(01:36):
We call it football.
That tournament is upon us andit is a competition.
Just like Brett said, it is alsoa festival of nations and
cultures, culminating in thisevent in the stretch of four
weeks of high pressuretournament excitement players
(01:58):
traveling around meeting instadiums, fans following them,
cheering them on and chantingweird stuff in stadiums, fans
following them, cheering them onand chanting weird stuff in
stadiums.
So that's what we're talkingabout here today the two chaps,
many cultures, the show aboutthe business of culture and the
culture of business, and Brett,the show where too much culture
(02:19):
is barely enough.
That's it.
So you need to ring that bell,push that button to subscribe,
because we got other stuffoutside of football that we talk
about and, of course, you wantto watch all of that and you
don't want to miss any of thatso make sure to subscribe, will
you Thank you?
So now that the ref blew thewhistle, let's dig right into
(02:39):
this.
Euro 2024, the EuropeanChampionship of Football,
football hosted by my homecountry, germany, and I actually
will be am spending as this isairing.
I am spending time in germanyas the tournament unfolds trying
(03:00):
to scalp maybe a ticket toenter one.
Did I say scalp?
No, legitimately purchase aticket.
That's sorry I misspoke.
Now, yes, competition and alsoa friendly coming together of
people, and if previoustournaments of that nature,
(03:20):
especially in, have proven thatEuropeans do get along and they
can celebrate together withoutgetting into each other's hair,
then I certainly have highexpectations for this tournament
, because last time Germanyhosted a football tournament was
in 2006.
They hosted the World Cup.
(03:41):
That turned out to be the summerfairy tale, the Sommermรคrchen,
that completely changed theimage of the country around the
world.
All of a sudden, peoplerealized wait a minute.
The stereotypes we thought wehad about Germany and the
Germans, yeah, sure, some ofthem might still be true, but
look at this, we didn't expectthis.
(04:03):
Is that what the German teamlooks like?
I mean, we don't watch footballall the time, but look at this.
We didn't expect this.
Is that what the German teamlooks like?
I mean, we don't watch footballall the time, but when we think
of Germans they're like 10 feettall and blonde and have blue
eyes.
And look at these guys, theyare all the colors of the
melanin spectrum.
Melanin spectrum Got to knowyour words, christian.
So Germany had the chance topresent itself in a new way, and
(04:24):
it will have yet another chanceduring quite challenging times
for Europe, wouldn't you say,brett?
I mean, you spent significanttime there as well.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, and I will be there, as you will be.
We'll be traveling throughEurope and with my connection
through my Polish wife, in thatregion of the world Certainly
not a country immune fromconflict, but also a country
that loves its football and itsplayers are well respected on
the world stage within Europeand other parts of the globe.
And of course I grew up arounda lot of this culture in my
(04:56):
country of Australia too.
So that connection with thatspirited competition is really
heartfelt for me.
Spirited competition is reallyheartfelt for me.
But of course, as an observerfrom a distance, I really never
understood until you know you,christian, told me about that
what it meant for Germany interms of the World Cup.
(05:17):
Back in that stage.
I mean, I remember watching thetournament and I was fascinated
with it.
But since I've gotten to knowyou and how you framed it and
helped me understand how otherGermans framed it, I thought it
was very impactful for me tolearn that and I'm going to
probably look at this tournamentthrough those eyes, drawing on
the conversation that you and Ihad with a group back in Munich
(05:40):
in last December around howGermany is seen right and how
it's probably as much as myresponsibility too, as not only
as your friend and a colleague,but also to tell a different
story about Germany.
You know, through the knowledgethat you've given me, that's
everybody's responsibility.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I think every nation partaking in these tournaments,
whether it be a footballtournament, olympics or whatever
.
Global competition allows acountry to tell a story about
itself, and the teams or theathletes representing a nation
are the proxies for doing that.
Is that an accuraterepresentation of an entire
(06:25):
nation?
Probably most likely not right.
It is simply a sports tournamentand yet it takes on a
metaphoric meaning.
At least it did so for post-warGermany.
Every country has a nationalnarrative.
There is a story we tell eachother, other people, about who
(06:46):
we are right.
Every country has that story.
It's usually based in some kindof mythology about some heroes
and some villains, some halopeople and some people with
horns, and what we like and whatwe don't like and what makes us
who we are.
And that story for Germany hadto change.
After World War II and the Nazidictatorship and the Holocaust.
(07:09):
The old stories literally fellout of favor because they served
nobody.
So a country blown to pieces,imploding with the weight of its
own crime against humanity, hadto come up with a new narrative
.
And I think football justhappened to Germany as a
narrative.
It was not by design, it wasokay, let's be good football
(07:32):
players and let's make that ournew country story.
That wasn't a plan, it happenedand it continued since the
1950s.
And if you travel the world andif you go into different
countries you will no matterwhere you go you will likely see
the flags of that particularnation being made in public.
(07:56):
That's kind of the regaliathat's the iconography of a
country is its flag and othernational symbols, but you'll see
flags flying, especially herein North America and the United
States.
You can barely go anywherewithout seeing stars and stripes
, and if you've ever visitedGermany, you will notice the
(08:17):
absence of the German flag inpublic.
It is rarely seen anywhereexcept for those tournaments.
So if you happen to be inGermany during well between June
14 and July 14 of 2024, youwill most likely see a lot of
black, red and gold stripes.
You will see the colors,because that's the only time
(08:41):
Germans allow themselves to showsome kind of national pride or
to to display some kind of Iwouldn't even call it patriotism
.
It's this okay, now, it's atournament.
Now, it's okay to do this.
Now we're we're not beingoverly nationalistic or
patriotic, we're just supportingour team right, and we use a
(09:01):
flag to do that.
It's.
It's really striking how acountry that usually doesn't
think about patriotism at allbecomes very much that during
such a tournament.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, and I love watching that.
But we see that, yes, we'reboth in the US, of course, and
we see these flags flying prettymuch every day and it becomes I
guess this is a personal, youknow, I'm not making a comment
about it, it's just for me apersonal lack of kind of
variation, because it's alwaysthere.
So, you know, every day is apatriotic expression and it's
(09:40):
expected to be so in thiscountry, and that's not what I
grew up with in my countryeither.
You know, and it's actually notwhat so in this country and
that's not what I grew up within my country either, you know,
and it's actually not what a lotof countries have.
And because it does, you know,there's been countries that have
experienced nationalism andsome of that kind of.
I guess that fervor, that kindof takes a country and makes it
fall in on itself.
I think that's a great metaphoryou used before a country
(10:03):
falling in on the weight of itsown kind of nationalism without
being open and withoutunderstanding the wonderful
diversity that other people canbring to it.
So other countries are morereticent to do that.
But you know this is.
You know, we were in the greenroom.
We mentioned this last weekabout the green room we were
talking about.
Why do we run around on greenpastures and chase, you know,
(10:27):
balls and uh, and kick themaround?
And what does that come from?
Well, maybe it comes from thefact that at certain times
people are just sick of conflictand you know, competition, even
though it's still competition,there's winners and losers and
trophies and all of those kindof things.
At the end of the day, you know, it's kind of what I like about
my favorite sport of cricket,the.
The competition is fierce, it'scombative, it's acerbic, and
(10:52):
Australians are the worst atthis, sometimes abusive towards
the other team.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
That can be the case in football too.
You don't want to understandall of the chants coming from
the stands.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Some of those are quite impolite to say the least,
that's a nice way to put it.
And are they?
Are they high contextcommunicators?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
this is what we're calling these people, these
folks probably not right and andeven though it is hard for me
to admit that, the british fansand I'm deliberately saying
british or the fans, the UK andwe talked about flags.
You might be confused, becauseyou won't see the Union Jack at
(11:34):
the Euro Cup.
You will see the English flagand you will see the Scottish
flag.
Somehow the UK has managed tohave four national teams England
, wales, scotland and NorthernIreland and that is arguably the
reasons why none of theseBritish teams have won a
(11:55):
tournament since 1966.
Combined, they would probablybe much, much stronger.
Just keep coming as separateentities and get your butt
kicked.
Here I'm being assertive.
It's a tournament in Germanyand we want to make sure that
the English don't win it.
That's all.
We'll do our best.
(12:16):
The English will probablyrespect that because they want
to kick our butts.
But the English fans and Ithink the Scottish fans too, but
more so the English fans theycan be quite low context
communicators in the stands andyet very elaborate in their
insults against their opponents.
Right when this English sarcasmcomes through, the chants in
(12:42):
the bleachers.
Whereas Germans, who are notvery how do I say this without
insulting my own people?
German fans are just very.
How do I say this withoutinsulting my own people?
German fans are just veryliteral.
They will say F you andwhatever it means to the
opposing team, right.
There is no nuance and stabbingbehind the back kind of chant.
(13:02):
It will be more a punch on thenose.
So that will be all there is,ideally, in form of
confrontation and belligerence.
The rest of it is singing,dancing, sure, drinking a little
bit and parading through thetowns and flying the flags and
the colors of one's footballsquad.
(13:25):
And the fact that Germany canhost all these guests during the
course of four weeks.
This is an important thing forGerman society, to be able to
display to our neighbors that weare hospitable, that we want to
be really good hosts.
We want our guests to have avery pleasant experience and
(13:45):
leave the tournament defeatedand be wanting to come back to a
country that was good to themduring the time that they
visited.
And it is also a symbol of, Ithink, of European unity in a
time when the continent isundergoing some challenges to
(14:06):
its economy, political andsocietal integrity, with the
Russian aggression againstUkraine.
That is something that istroubling a lot of European
nations, many of themparticipating in the Euro Cup
Poland is, hungary is, serbia is, so a lot of the countries
bordering or near Ukraine areconcerned about this, and
(14:29):
theraine itself qualified forthe euro cup despite all odds
right.
So there, there will be somelevel of celebration around that
that this team in in blue andyellow will play on the
international stage, and theywill be.
I will.
I predict this.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
They will be warmly welcomed in every stadium they
enter yeah, I bet, I bet, andrightly so, right, yeah, well, I
mean, this is an importanttopic.
I mean, I guess it's a littledeeper than when we watch these
type of sporting events.
I think, christian, you're thesame as me.
I like to kind of watch it.
Yes, I love the sport, I lovethe game.
(15:07):
I'm not as knowledgeable as youin the terms of the background,
the players and things likethat.
I've kind of been disconnectedfrom that.
But I love the tournament, Ilove the games, I love the
competition, but I also lovewatching the cultural interplay
and the messaging that comesthrough different, whether it be
media outlets, whether it bekind of commentary shows that
(15:28):
talk about this, and whether itbe the players themselves and
how they describe theirexperience in this.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
you know, I mean, the world really looks and puts
their eyes on a location and how, and of course then how the
hosts, uh, you know um show upfor, uh, their, their, their
tournament as well and even ifyou're not interested in
football whatsoever, I wouldinvite you just tune into some
of those matches, just for thebeginning, as they play the
national anthems and as thecamera moves along the team that
(15:57):
is lined up, and look at thenames of the players in those
nations, and you will probablybe surprised by some of the
names of the players that playfor a certain nation.
You will find a Swiss nationalplayer by the name of Granit
Xhaka, and his name last namespells, I believe, with X age.
(16:18):
Those are the first two letters.
That is neither German norFrench, nor is it Italian, the
three dominant language inSwitzerland.
No, I think it's an Albanianname.
So his family immigrated toSwitzerland before he was born,
and this is just one example.
You'll find a player on theGerman squad who has a Turkish
(16:40):
name.
He's actually the GermanGermany squad's team captain has
a Turkish name, his name isGรผndoฤan, and you'll find that
in many of the teams thatparticipate in this tournament,
showing that we are mixes, weare mutts, we are not homogenous
(17:01):
entities in these countries,and we talk a lot about cultural
competence, cultural awarenessand cultural identities, and
they are multi-leveled,multi-layered and nuanced.
And just by watching somethingas harmless and, some would
argue, pointless as a footballmatch, even if you don't watch
(17:24):
the match, watch the names,watch the composition of these
teams and you'll see thatdiversity levels are
representative of the countriesthat these teams play for.
Therein, to me, lies one of thebeauties of the game.
It's not just a beautiful gamebecause, ideally, it's well
(17:46):
played and nice to watch.
It's also a beautiful gamebecause it is a reflection of
our societies, our values andhow we represent them in public.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
So there's the.
We talked about curiosity lastweek, talked a lot about cats
and stuff like that, I mean, butwe did talk about curiosity.
And there's another suggestionis if you're watching the game
and you see these names and itdoesn't seem to fit with what
your preconception is of theworld and how it fits into the
narrative of what you've beentold.
There's information everywherein this world and you can go and
(18:19):
Google that player and I thinkyou'll find some really touching
stories, some really inspiringstories, and these are great
things to read.
If you happen to not be totallyengaged in some of the passing
back and forth that happens infootball, I mean we enjoy it
because we know that there'stactics in it and there's a
whole process and reason behindthat.
(18:39):
But the average might go.
Why are they just kicking itback and forth between each
other?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
There's a reason for that there's a reason.
Trust us, just call me, I'llexplain it to you Now.
Aside from that, there arebusiness implications to this
right A.
This is a highly commercializedtournament.
Football might be a beautifulgame and it might be a lot of
tradition and there are someemotions around it.
There's no denying that it's anover-commercialized endeavor.
(19:08):
So there'll be lots and lots ofsponsorship, there'll be tons
of activities surrounding thetournament and there is business
that does happen or does nothappen because of the Euro 24.
So should you be trying to reachyour business partners in
Germany or somewhere in Europeduring the time of the
(19:29):
tournament, chances are answerswill be even more delayed than
they usually are.
And if you're trying to callsomebody's office while their
team is playing, don't expectanyone to pick up the phone.
It's a futile attempt.
I mean, I know that in mostGerman companies employers don't
(19:50):
even ask people to be at theirdesk when Germany's playing it's
, I guess the bosses accompanythe team down into the pub to
watch it together.
There's no point in forcingpeople to do the work while the
game is on.
And also, I mean, there arebusiness opportunities for you
as a tourist.
Should you be traveling orshould you be on a business
(20:11):
visit to germany, I recentlylearned that you can buy your
rail card.
The german rail company offersa discount system.
So if you buy an annual pass itwill bring your ticket price
per trip down by x amount ofpercent and usually you have to
buy the 12-month ticket.
Now for the Euro, they said,hey, here's a three-month ticket
(20:34):
for a reduced price.
And they said get this, theboring kind of stale German rail
systems.
If Germany wins the Euro Cup,your three-month pass will
automatically be good for 12months.
That will be our gift to you.
So that's the incentive youwill get for buying the rail
(20:54):
ticket.
By not taking a car or nottaking an airplane and polluting
the environment a little less,there is some positive spin
effects coming from such apointless thing as people in
short pants and cleats chasing aball on a green field for 90
minutes Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
And a good way actually to connect, if you even
if you're not going there, isit?
If you're doing business in thefrom the US with countries that
are involved in this tournament, why not again go and do a
little bit of research aroundthe team that perhaps you may
think that your counterparts inthese countries may be following
, and just break the ice alittle bit with them and show
some interest, because they'reyou know if they're followers
(21:38):
and they're orders of theirlocal country team.
This could be a good way to getto know them a little bit more
and show them that you'reinterested in something that's
culturally appropriate for themor culturally important for them
.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
So yeah, by the way, it doesn't have to be a European
colleague, because at the sametime as there's EuroCup in
Europe, there's Copa America inthe Americas.
If you're in the US or inCanada, the Copa America is
hosted in the US at the sametime, june and July.
You might not hear about it atall because it's outside of your
(22:12):
conscious awareness, but yourMexican friends, your Brazilian
colleagues, your businessconnections from Argentina or
from Jamaica, they aredefinitely interested.
What a way to connect, what away to show your curiosity.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Here's another layer.
The T20 Kick Cricket World Cupis taking place in the US.
Who'd have thought In June aswell.
It starts in June, goes throughto July.
I mean really?
I mean, yeah, we steal ourcatchphrase from a sporting show
in Australia where these twoguys used to say too much sport
(22:46):
is barely enough.
I would argue that there is aplethora of sport to be able to
be taken advantage of duringthese coming months.
You know, my cricket may not beeverybody's cup of tea, but it
is certainly mine and I'll befollowing the Cricket World Cup.
And for once I don't have toget up at midnight and watch the
games, so that's even betterfor me.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Good for you, my friend.
All right, then, no predictionshere.
Who will win the tournament?
It's Germany, of course.
No, no, no predictions at all.
Um, we'll see how this playsout.
Good luck to all theparticipants.
Be safe as you travel, enjoythe beautiful games, whatever
they are, whether it's footballor cricket or whatever it is,
(23:26):
and enjoy the friendlycompetition, enjoy the banter
and enjoy the cross-culturalconnection as you do absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Two chaps, many cultures.
Another episode in the can, a,quite you know, a time sensitive
episode, and if you're watchingthis in 2040 and you're
wondering what we're talkingabout, then you know, look up
whatever the equivalent isgoogle for you right there at
this time and uh and and see whowon.
Um, you'll be too late for thefree German train ticket.
Unfortunately, that's just partof life.
(23:55):
So two chaps, many cultures,and we will see you next week.
Thank you for joining and leaveus a comment, like us,
subscribe and we'll see you nexttime.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Ta-ta for now.
One might say competition is in the soul of
all humans.
We do battle in friendly terms,we do battle in enemy terms,
whether it be war, whether it besport.
And today we don't want to talkabout war, we want to talk
about sport.
However, sport oftentimesembeds a little bit of politics.
A little bit of regionalunderstanding is important to
(00:23):
know what's happening in certainbig events.
We're going to talk about onecertain big event today.
What things can we learn aboutthe cultural aspect of the hosts
, of the participants, and howthat makes the competition
worthwhile to watch?
Let's stick around and talkabout that.
Welcome to 2 Chaps.
Many Cultures.
In an increasingly globallyconnected world, it is vital to
(00:47):
possess the essential skills ofcultural intelligence.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Listen along as we present the topics, tips and
strategies you can use todevelop the power of cultural
understanding in your personaland professional life.
(01:15):
Here are your hosts, christianHuffala and Brett Parry.
Professional life here are yourhosts, christian.
Uefa Euro Cup the soccertournament.
Did I say soccer?
I meant football tournament.
Let's take the terminologyright.
Let's be real here for a second.
(01:36):
We call it football.
That tournament is upon us andit is a competition.
Just like Brett said, it is alsoa festival of nations and
cultures, culminating in thisevent in the stretch of four
weeks of high pressuretournament excitement players
(01:58):
traveling around meeting instadiums, fans following them,
cheering them on and chantingweird stuff in stadiums, fans
following them, cheering them onand chanting weird stuff in
stadiums.
So that's what we're talkingabout here today the two chaps,
many cultures, the show aboutthe business of culture and the
culture of business, and Brett,the show where too much culture
(02:19):
is barely enough.
That's it.
So you need to ring that bell,push that button to subscribe,
because we got other stuffoutside of football that we talk
about and, of course, you wantto watch all of that and you
don't want to miss any of thatso make sure to subscribe, will
you Thank you?
So now that the ref blew thewhistle, let's dig right into
(02:39):
this.
Euro 2024, the EuropeanChampionship of Football,
football hosted by my homecountry, germany, and I actually
will be am spending as this isairing.
I am spending time in germanyas the tournament unfolds trying
(03:00):
to scalp maybe a ticket toenter one.
Did I say scalp?
No, legitimately purchase aticket.
That's sorry I misspoke.
Now, yes, competition and alsoa friendly coming together of
people, and if previoustournaments of that nature,
(03:20):
especially in, have proven thatEuropeans do get along and they
can celebrate together withoutgetting into each other's hair,
then I certainly have highexpectations for this tournament
, because last time Germanyhosted a football tournament was
in 2006.
They hosted the World Cup.
(03:41):
That turned out to be the summerfairy tale, the Sommermรคrchen,
that completely changed theimage of the country around the
world.
All of a sudden, peoplerealized wait a minute.
The stereotypes we thought wehad about Germany and the
Germans, yeah, sure, some ofthem might still be true, but
look at this, we didn't expectthis.
(04:03):
Is that what the German teamlooks like?
I mean, we don't watch footballall the time, but look at this.
We didn't expect this.
Is that what the German teamlooks like?
I mean, we don't watch footballall the time, but when we think
of Germans they're like 10 feettall and blonde and have blue
eyes.
And look at these guys, theyare all the colors of the
melanin spectrum.
Melanin spectrum Got to knowyour words, christian.
So Germany had the chance topresent itself in a new way, and
(04:24):
it will have yet another chanceduring quite challenging times
for Europe, wouldn't you say,brett?
I mean, you spent significanttime there as well.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, and I will be there, as you will be.
We'll be traveling throughEurope and with my connection
through my Polish wife, in thatregion of the world Certainly
not a country immune fromconflict, but also a country
that loves its football and itsplayers are well respected on
the world stage within Europeand other parts of the globe.
And of course I grew up arounda lot of this culture in my
(04:56):
country of Australia too.
So that connection with thatspirited competition is really
heartfelt for me.
Spirited competition is reallyheartfelt for me.
But of course, as an observerfrom a distance, I really never
understood until you know you,christian, told me about that
what it meant for Germany interms of the World Cup.
(05:17):
Back in that stage.
I mean, I remember watching thetournament and I was fascinated
with it.
But since I've gotten to knowyou and how you framed it and
helped me understand how otherGermans framed it, I thought it
was very impactful for me tolearn that and I'm going to
probably look at this tournamentthrough those eyes, drawing on
the conversation that you and Ihad with a group back in Munich
(05:40):
in last December around howGermany is seen right and how
it's probably as much as myresponsibility too, as not only
as your friend and a colleague,but also to tell a different
story about Germany.
You know, through the knowledgethat you've given me, that's
everybody's responsibility.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I think every nation partaking in these tournaments,
whether it be a footballtournament, olympics or whatever
.
Global competition allows acountry to tell a story about
itself, and the teams or theathletes representing a nation
are the proxies for doing that.
Is that an accuraterepresentation of an entire
(06:25):
nation?
Probably most likely not right.
It is simply a sports tournamentand yet it takes on a
metaphoric meaning.
At least it did so for post-warGermany.
Every country has a nationalnarrative.
There is a story we tell eachother, other people, about who
(06:46):
we are right.
Every country has that story.
It's usually based in some kindof mythology about some heroes
and some villains, some halopeople and some people with
horns, and what we like and whatwe don't like and what makes us
who we are.
And that story for Germany hadto change.
After World War II and the Nazidictatorship and the Holocaust.
(07:09):
The old stories literally fellout of favor because they served
nobody.
So a country blown to pieces,imploding with the weight of its
own crime against humanity, hadto come up with a new narrative
.
And I think football justhappened to Germany as a
narrative.
It was not by design, it wasokay, let's be good football
(07:32):
players and let's make that ournew country story.
That wasn't a plan, it happenedand it continued since the
1950s.
And if you travel the world andif you go into different
countries you will no matterwhere you go you will likely see
the flags of that particularnation being made in public.
(07:56):
That's kind of the regaliathat's the iconography of a
country is its flag and othernational symbols, but you'll see
flags flying, especially herein North America and the United
States.
You can barely go anywherewithout seeing stars and stripes
, and if you've ever visitedGermany, you will notice the
(08:17):
absence of the German flag inpublic.
It is rarely seen anywhereexcept for those tournaments.
So if you happen to be inGermany during well between June
14 and July 14 of 2024, youwill most likely see a lot of
black, red and gold stripes.
You will see the colors,because that's the only time
(08:41):
Germans allow themselves to showsome kind of national pride or
to to display some kind of Iwouldn't even call it patriotism
.
It's this okay, now, it's atournament.
Now, it's okay to do this.
Now we're we're not beingoverly nationalistic or
patriotic, we're just supportingour team right, and we use a
(09:01):
flag to do that.
It's.
It's really striking how acountry that usually doesn't
think about patriotism at allbecomes very much that during
such a tournament.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, and I love watching that.
But we see that, yes, we'reboth in the US, of course, and
we see these flags flying prettymuch every day and it becomes I
guess this is a personal, youknow, I'm not making a comment
about it, it's just for me apersonal lack of kind of
variation, because it's alwaysthere.
So, you know, every day is apatriotic expression and it's
(09:40):
expected to be so in thiscountry, and that's not what I
grew up with in my countryeither.
You know, and it's actually notwhat so in this country and
that's not what I grew up within my country either, you know,
and it's actually not what a lotof countries have.
And because it does, you know,there's been countries that have
experienced nationalism andsome of that kind of.
I guess that fervor, that kindof takes a country and makes it
fall in on itself.
I think that's a great metaphoryou used before a country
(10:03):
falling in on the weight of itsown kind of nationalism without
being open and withoutunderstanding the wonderful
diversity that other people canbring to it.
So other countries are morereticent to do that.
But you know this is.
You know, we were in the greenroom.
We mentioned this last weekabout the green room we were
talking about.
Why do we run around on greenpastures and chase, you know,
(10:27):
balls and uh, and kick themaround?
And what does that come from?
Well, maybe it comes from thefact that at certain times
people are just sick of conflictand you know, competition, even
though it's still competition,there's winners and losers and
trophies and all of those kindof things.
At the end of the day, you know, it's kind of what I like about
my favorite sport of cricket,the.
The competition is fierce, it'scombative, it's acerbic, and
(10:52):
Australians are the worst atthis, sometimes abusive towards
the other team.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
That can be the case in football too.
You don't want to understandall of the chants coming from
the stands.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Some of those are quite impolite to say the least,
that's a nice way to put it.
And are they?
Are they high contextcommunicators?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
this is what we're calling these people, these
folks probably not right and andeven though it is hard for me
to admit that, the british fansand I'm deliberately saying
british or the fans, the UK andwe talked about flags.
You might be confused, becauseyou won't see the Union Jack at
(11:34):
the Euro Cup.
You will see the English flagand you will see the Scottish
flag.
Somehow the UK has managed tohave four national teams England
, wales, scotland and NorthernIreland and that is arguably the
reasons why none of theseBritish teams have won a
(11:55):
tournament since 1966.
Combined, they would probablybe much, much stronger.
Just keep coming as separateentities and get your butt
kicked.
Here I'm being assertive.
It's a tournament in Germanyand we want to make sure that
the English don't win it.
That's all.
We'll do our best.
(12:16):
The English will probablyrespect that because they want
to kick our butts.
But the English fans and Ithink the Scottish fans too, but
more so the English fans theycan be quite low context
communicators in the stands andyet very elaborate in their
insults against their opponents.
Right when this English sarcasmcomes through, the chants in
(12:42):
the bleachers.
Whereas Germans, who are notvery how do I say this without
insulting my own people?
German fans are just very.
How do I say this withoutinsulting my own people?
German fans are just veryliteral.
They will say F you andwhatever it means to the
opposing team, right.
There is no nuance and stabbingbehind the back kind of chant.
(13:02):
It will be more a punch on thenose.
So that will be all there is,ideally, in form of
confrontation and belligerence.
The rest of it is singing,dancing, sure, drinking a little
bit and parading through thetowns and flying the flags and
the colors of one's footballsquad.
(13:25):
And the fact that Germany canhost all these guests during the
course of four weeks.
This is an important thing forGerman society, to be able to
display to our neighbors that weare hospitable, that we want to
be really good hosts.
We want our guests to have avery pleasant experience and
(13:45):
leave the tournament defeatedand be wanting to come back to a
country that was good to themduring the time that they
visited.
And it is also a symbol of, Ithink, of European unity in a
time when the continent isundergoing some challenges to
(14:06):
its economy, political andsocietal integrity, with the
Russian aggression againstUkraine.
That is something that istroubling a lot of European
nations, many of themparticipating in the Euro Cup
Poland is, hungary is, serbia is, so a lot of the countries
bordering or near Ukraine areconcerned about this, and
(14:29):
theraine itself qualified forthe euro cup despite all odds
right.
So there, there will be somelevel of celebration around that
that this team in in blue andyellow will play on the
international stage, and theywill be.
I will.
I predict this.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
They will be warmly welcomed in every stadium they
enter yeah, I bet, I bet, andrightly so, right, yeah, well, I
mean, this is an importanttopic.
I mean, I guess it's a littledeeper than when we watch these
type of sporting events.
I think, christian, you're thesame as me.
I like to kind of watch it.
Yes, I love the sport, I lovethe game.
(15:07):
I'm not as knowledgeable as youin the terms of the background,
the players and things likethat.
I've kind of been disconnectedfrom that.
But I love the tournament, Ilove the games, I love the
competition, but I also lovewatching the cultural interplay
and the messaging that comesthrough different, whether it be
media outlets, whether it bekind of commentary shows that
(15:28):
talk about this, and whether itbe the players themselves and
how they describe theirexperience in this.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
you know, I mean, the world really looks and puts
their eyes on a location and how, and of course then how the
hosts, uh, you know um show upfor, uh, their, their, their
tournament as well and even ifyou're not interested in
football whatsoever, I wouldinvite you just tune into some
of those matches, just for thebeginning, as they play the
national anthems and as thecamera moves along the team that
(15:57):
is lined up, and look at thenames of the players in those
nations, and you will probablybe surprised by some of the
names of the players that playfor a certain nation.
You will find a Swiss nationalplayer by the name of Granit
Xhaka, and his name last namespells, I believe, with X age.
(16:18):
Those are the first two letters.
That is neither German norFrench, nor is it Italian, the
three dominant language inSwitzerland.
No, I think it's an Albanianname.
So his family immigrated toSwitzerland before he was born,
and this is just one example.
You'll find a player on theGerman squad who has a Turkish
(16:40):
name.
He's actually the GermanGermany squad's team captain has
a Turkish name, his name isGรผndoฤan, and you'll find that
in many of the teams thatparticipate in this tournament,
showing that we are mixes, weare mutts, we are not homogenous
(17:01):
entities in these countries,and we talk a lot about cultural
competence, cultural awarenessand cultural identities, and
they are multi-leveled,multi-layered and nuanced.
And just by watching somethingas harmless and, some would
argue, pointless as a footballmatch, even if you don't watch
(17:24):
the match, watch the names,watch the composition of these
teams and you'll see thatdiversity levels are
representative of the countriesthat these teams play for.
Therein, to me, lies one of thebeauties of the game.
It's not just a beautiful gamebecause, ideally, it's well
(17:46):
played and nice to watch.
It's also a beautiful gamebecause it is a reflection of
our societies, our values andhow we represent them in public.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
So there's the.
We talked about curiosity lastweek, talked a lot about cats
and stuff like that, I mean, butwe did talk about curiosity.
And there's another suggestionis if you're watching the game
and you see these names and itdoesn't seem to fit with what
your preconception is of theworld and how it fits into the
narrative of what you've beentold.
There's information everywherein this world and you can go and
(18:19):
Google that player and I thinkyou'll find some really touching
stories, some really inspiringstories, and these are great
things to read.
If you happen to not be totallyengaged in some of the passing
back and forth that happens infootball, I mean we enjoy it
because we know that there'stactics in it and there's a
whole process and reason behindthat.
(18:39):
But the average might go.
Why are they just kicking itback and forth between each
other?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
There's a reason for that there's a reason.
Trust us, just call me, I'llexplain it to you Now.
Aside from that, there arebusiness implications to this
right A.
This is a highly commercializedtournament.
Football might be a beautifulgame and it might be a lot of
tradition and there are someemotions around it.
There's no denying that it's anover-commercialized endeavor.
(19:08):
So there'll be lots and lots ofsponsorship, there'll be tons
of activities surrounding thetournament and there is business
that does happen or does nothappen because of the Euro 24.
So should you be trying to reachyour business partners in
Germany or somewhere in Europeduring the time of the
(19:29):
tournament, chances are answerswill be even more delayed than
they usually are.
And if you're trying to callsomebody's office while their
team is playing, don't expectanyone to pick up the phone.
It's a futile attempt.
I mean, I know that in mostGerman companies employers don't
(19:50):
even ask people to be at theirdesk when Germany's playing it's
, I guess the bosses accompanythe team down into the pub to
watch it together.
There's no point in forcingpeople to do the work while the
game is on.
And also, I mean, there arebusiness opportunities for you
as a tourist.
Should you be traveling orshould you be on a business
(20:11):
visit to germany, I recentlylearned that you can buy your
rail card.
The german rail company offersa discount system.
So if you buy an annual pass itwill bring your ticket price
per trip down by x amount ofpercent and usually you have to
buy the 12-month ticket.
Now for the Euro, they said,hey, here's a three-month ticket
(20:34):
for a reduced price.
And they said get this, theboring kind of stale German rail
systems.
If Germany wins the Euro Cup,your three-month pass will
automatically be good for 12months.
That will be our gift to you.
So that's the incentive youwill get for buying the rail
(20:54):
ticket.
By not taking a car or nottaking an airplane and polluting
the environment a little less,there is some positive spin
effects coming from such apointless thing as people in
short pants and cleats chasing aball on a green field for 90
minutes Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
And a good way actually to connect, if you even
if you're not going there, isit?
If you're doing business in thefrom the US with countries that
are involved in this tournament, why not again go and do a
little bit of research aroundthe team that perhaps you may
think that your counterparts inthese countries may be following
, and just break the ice alittle bit with them and show
some interest, because they'reyou know if they're followers
(21:38):
and they're orders of theirlocal country team.
This could be a good way to getto know them a little bit more
and show them that you'reinterested in something that's
culturally appropriate for themor culturally important for them
.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
So yeah, by the way, it doesn't have to be a European
colleague, because at the sametime as there's EuroCup in
Europe, there's Copa America inthe Americas.
If you're in the US or inCanada, the Copa America is
hosted in the US at the sametime, june and July.
You might not hear about it atall because it's outside of your
(22:12):
conscious awareness, but yourMexican friends, your Brazilian
colleagues, your businessconnections from Argentina or
from Jamaica, they aredefinitely interested.
What a way to connect, what away to show your curiosity.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Here's another layer.
The T20 Kick Cricket World Cupis taking place in the US.
Who'd have thought In June aswell.
It starts in June, goes throughto July.
I mean really?
I mean, yeah, we steal ourcatchphrase from a sporting show
in Australia where these twoguys used to say too much sport
(22:46):
is barely enough.
I would argue that there is aplethora of sport to be able to
be taken advantage of duringthese coming months.
You know, my cricket may not beeverybody's cup of tea, but it
is certainly mine and I'll befollowing the Cricket World Cup.
And for once I don't have toget up at midnight and watch the
games, so that's even betterfor me.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Good for you, my friend.
All right, then, no predictionshere.
Who will win the tournament?
It's Germany, of course.
No, no, no predictions at all.
Um, we'll see how this playsout.
Good luck to all theparticipants.
Be safe as you travel, enjoythe beautiful games, whatever
they are, whether it's footballor cricket or whatever it is,
(23:26):
and enjoy the friendlycompetition, enjoy the banter
and enjoy the cross-culturalconnection as you do absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Two chaps, many cultures.
Another episode in the can, a,quite you know, a time sensitive
episode, and if you're watchingthis in 2040 and you're
wondering what we're talkingabout, then you know, look up
whatever the equivalent isgoogle for you right there at
this time and uh and and see whowon.
Um, you'll be too late for thefree German train ticket.
Unfortunately, that's just partof life.
(23:55):
So two chaps, many cultures,and we will see you next week.
Thank you for joining and leaveus a comment, like us,
subscribe and we'll see you nexttime.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Ta-ta for now.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you wonโt hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, youโve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.