June 1, 2024 โข 22 mins
Curiosity killed the cat? More like curiosity kept it alive! Join us on this lively episode of "Two Chaps. Many Cultures," where we passionately argue that curiosity is the lifeline for culturally aware individuals. From debunking this age-old myth with personal anecdotes to exploring its immense power in fostering cultural intelligence, we make a case for why curiosity is essential. Listen as we share how our own inquisitiveness has enriched both our personal and professional lives, and how curiosityโor the lack of itโcan make or break cross-cultural interactions. By embracing curiosity, we unlock invaluable insights and cultivate deeper connections in our interconnected world.
Tune in to "Two Chaps. Many Cultures," where we firmly believe too much culture is barely enough. Stay curious, folks!
๐๐ฌ๐ค ๐พ๐๐๐ฅ๐จ โ ๐๐๐ฃ๐ฎ ๐พ๐ช๐ก๐ฉ๐ช๐ง๐๐จ is the worldโs #1 show on the business of culture and the culture of business. Christian Hรถferle and Brett Parry ponder culture in short bursts and deep dives, featuring your questions and comments related to culture, business, and personal growth.
Be sure to check out and subscribe to our YouTube channel for even more great content: https://www.youtube.com/@TwoChapsManyCultures
Visit https://theculturemastery.com/ for more information about the skills for working in a global context.
The music on this episode is provided courtesy of Sepalot.
โDuum Diipโ - Artist: Sepalot - Label: Eskapaden - Copyright control
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
But the danger of getting a whole bunch of hate
mail about this.
What I'm about to say curiosity, didn't kill the cat.
Cats don't give a crap what youdo, they go about their life.
They don't have owners, theyhave staff.
That's kind of my attitude tocats.
I love cats, don't get me wrong.
But are they really curious?
Is curiosity going to kill them?
(00:22):
I argue not, because, again,they may have random little
attention spans, but are theytruly curious?
Are they intentional aboutunderstanding the love they
might share for their owners orother cats?
I argue not.
So let's think about how doesthat kind of tie into today's
topic?
We argue that culture, or lackof understanding of culture, may
(00:45):
be the very thing that mightkill possibility and
interactions.
So we're going to chat aboutthat.
Welcome to Two Chaps.
Many Cultures.
In an increasingly globallyconnected world, it is vital to
possess the essential skills ofcultural intelligence.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Listen along as we present the topics, tips and
strategies you can use todevelop the power of cultural
understanding in your personaland professional life.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Here are your hosts Christian Huffala and Brett
Parry.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Meow.
Welcome back, feline lovers.
Yet another episode of Two Cats, many Cultures.
Oh no, two Chaps, many Cultures.
These two cats going wild overthe culture stuff.
This is Two Chaps, manyCultures, the weekly show about
(01:41):
the business of culture and theculture of business, the number
one show globally on that topic.
Only here, and if you'recurious, ring that bell,
subscribe to the channel.
Never miss an update.
Watch all the past episodes inthe archive and there are quite
(02:02):
a few if you're curious andyou're willing to dig.
So enough with the cattynonsense.
What are we going to talk abouttoday?
We're going to talk aboutcuriosity.
No, it's not killing the cat.
Curiosity, or rather lackthereof, is what's going to ruin
your global professionalendeavors, because if you're not
(02:25):
curious, what else you got towork with?
Bloody nothing.
Yes, we're going to get somehate mail and comments.
Yes, we're being too abrasive.
Christian the German is beingsuper direct again and so brash.
Yeah, that's who I am, but I amalso curious how you will
respond to that, because we'retrying to trigger or needle you
(02:48):
a little bit about this, becauseunless you are curious about
your environment in which you'reoperating, you're not going to
learn anything new.
And isn't that what culturalcompetence.
At least part of it is aboutBrett.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Well, I've certainly discovered that I probably was
guilty when I was growing up ofnot being as curious as I
probably should have been.
But now that I'm living outsideof my culture and I'm married
to somebody that's not from myculture and I get to hang out
with not only clients butfriends and family even people
in my family came from differentcultures and they've explained
(03:26):
a lot about what they do and howthey do it and what makes them
do it.
So I probably should have beena little bit more competent back
then.
Even in business, when Iemployed people from different
backgrounds, I probably tookadvantage or took it for granted
just what they bought with themand didn't value it as much as
I did so in a serious tone.
(03:47):
Yes, uh, we'll take all the hatemail about the hate for cats,
but we will.
We will certainly stand on ourown on the courage of our
convictions.
Anyway, christian and I shareof the deep curiosity about
people.
We were talking in the greenroom.
We've got to call it the greenroom now.
It's kind of our color it isgreen.
It is green.
(04:07):
We were talking about this interms of what we share.
When we are traveling around,we observe the world, we observe
people.
I was saying, sitting in a,nothing better for me than to
sit in an airport lounge andwatch the human condition pass
by and I'm constantly makingstories up in my brain about, uh
, what they're, where people aregoing, where they come from,
(04:30):
what languages they speak, and,of course, all of these things
are through the eyes of justwatching the physical exterior
of people.
But I don't.
I've had the most wonderfulconversations with people when
I've struck up a chat here andthere and realize that this
person speaks five languages youknow, or they've lived in five
(04:50):
different countries, and then webuild an affinity right.
And that curiosity, I argue,would be the key component as to
where it's got me today and howI get to do this work, or Chris
and I get to do this work.
Is that curiosity is driven bya real, unquenchable thirst for
(05:12):
new knowledge?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, and I'm willing to die on that hill, that I'm
saying, yeah, without curiosity,I ain't got nothing going for
you, got nothing going for you,and I will throw you that ball
of wool down that hill so youcan play with it.
My, my, my little cat dying ofhere now.
Here.
Here's what triggered this,when when you said, um, you, you
(05:35):
enjoy observing and watchingthe human condition and I know
this may be super subjective,because both of us, you and I,
would probably lean more on theextrovert end of the spectrum
and it is rather easy for youand I to approach complete
(05:56):
strangers because we feel that'san okay behavior.
And I have family members, Ihave friends who would rather,
would rather, hide under underthree blankets before they
started doing that.
My children will tell you thatit is cringe worthy how I
(06:17):
approach complete strangers inpublic and ask questions and my,
my youngest daughter goes likedad's doing it again.
We're not going to get out ofhere for another hour because he
just struck up a conversationwith a complete stranger.
We could have long been outsideof this store already.
No, but he has to talk to them.
So I get that Not everybody isis that way and maybe I'm just
(06:51):
weird in that in that sense, butnothing new ever happened in
humanity or human history.
Without questioning the statusquo, I want to say it is an
einstein quote that you, if youwant progress, you need to keep
questioning everything.
Now again, I understand thatsome people have a hard time
doing that and I would arguethat we are to a certain degree,
(07:13):
a product of our own system andwe are a product of our Western
industrialized educationalsystem, where we learn to comply
and to obey.
Obedience very often comes frommoral, religious structures.
(07:33):
Very often, whether it's in theChristian, muslim, jewish,
buddhist, whatever worldreligion world, there is always
a degree of obedience to thehigher power.
And in industrialized nationsthe school system wants to
produce graduates and we want toshape them in a certain form.
(07:54):
It's usually a standardized wayof educating us to compliance
and to follow the rules and notdraw with the crayons outside of
the lines.
I know this might be acontentious deduction here, but
this is the opposite of beingcurious, right?
That curiosity is that we arebeing taught not to be too
(08:16):
curious, because if we ask toomany questions, somebody who is
in a position of authority, whois our elder, may not have the
answer and that would make themrather uncomfortable.
So curiosity we try to press itdown a little bit and yet
nothing.
We will learn nothing, we willnot be able to absorb new
information if we don't havethat curiosity.
That's why I'm saying, withoutcuriosity, we don't have
(08:39):
anything to work with.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
And we've talked to guests we've discussed this
before in previous episodesabout this is where art comes in
and creativity, the practice ofmaking something.
That is, whether it be music,whether it be art, whether it be
any kind of creative pursuit.
Seth Godin talked about this inhis talk about education that
(09:01):
nobody asks people to make a newcanvas, nobody asks people to
make a new music.
People just do it becausethey're intentionally curious
about what will be the outcome.
But again, you know, we mightthink about.
I've talked about the conceptof watching other people and
watching the human condition.
However, I think that really,my curiosity was then even more
(09:25):
peaked when I learned theimportance of understanding
myself, like being deeplycurious about where I came from,
how that makes me turn up as abusiness leader, how it makes me
turn up as a husband, as afriend, as a business partner.
So that's an important part,right too?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
as a business partner .
So that's an important part,right too?
Yeah, I agree, and I think weare.
And I go back to conditioning.
I think we are often conditionedto perform right, to know
something or be competent insomething, especially if we work
in a kind of a corporatesetting or a professional
setting, and arguably most ofthe people who watch us rant
(10:04):
about stuff like this do work insome sort of global context.
So if you're watching this, youprobably work in a global
environment.
Your job is to perform, to knowsomething, to have subject
matter expertise in what you doand do not what you do best.
Fantastic.
So we're conditioned to know.
We're conditioned to giveinformation to be interesting to
(10:32):
others.
We're not necessarilyconditioned to be interested in
other things and other people innew information.
So asking questions could giveus the feeling that we sound
stupid.
By asking a question, oh, wedon't know something.
Well, aren't we supposed toknow everything Because we've
(10:54):
reached that level of hierarchyor competency or responsibility
in our organization and now I'masking questions.
Does that make me look stupid?
I argue it doesn't.
I think the humble inquiry ishow you actually get people to
perform at the highest level,and I'm sure I'm putting my
(11:17):
coaching hat on when I say thisTelling people to do something
will always create some sort ofresistance.
Asking them how they would liketo complete the task will
inspire, ideally, or invite, newways of completing the task
(11:38):
that I would have probably notthought of had I not asked that
question.
So without that curiosity, Iwill always be stuck in my mode
of operating.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
I start out all again with the coaching hat or the
training hat or the mentoringhat, whatever it is.
I start out with telling peoplelike listen, this is not a
lecture.
First of all, I'm not smartenough to be a lecturer and
certainly not I bring humility.
That's kind of a of a culturalthing.
Of course we have to thinkabout culture as a reflection of
the people that show up.
(12:08):
I think me.
I just prefer to ask and tellpeople, make it clear.
You know it's a conversation.
This is a two-way intentionalconversation of me having to
understand me, first, where Icome from, then you inviting you
, and then, when you tell methat I listen, like Christian's
(12:29):
saying, I am listening with theintent to understand and not to
respond.
You know it's difficult for allof us to do that.
Our brain, if we're operatingin a very fast-paced environment
, is taught to kind of react andmaybe argue.
You know, especially becauseChristian and I are in the US
environment here.
This is even the legal systemhere is an adversarial system by
(12:55):
its very name.
It's called that and it's meantto be, and this culture
promotes that because that isseen as a necessary part of an
interaction.
However, other cultures aremore kind of softly developed in
terms of relationships andthings like that.
So I think this is theimportant part always
(13:17):
understanding the culturalaspect.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
And very often leaders in certain cultures are
more hierarchical.
Cultures are expected to havethe answers right and, as a
leader in such a culture, to bethe inquisitive part and
admitting that she or he doesn'tknow everything might make them
look weak and that therefore itmight be discouraged to be or
(13:48):
to display that level ofcuriosity.
But there's other ways to becurious to let uh to, to invite
new information.
Um, you mentioned seth godinearlier.
Who who talks about in I thinkit was a TED Talk or in one of
his speeches about this how ourWestern society has put
(14:12):
limitations on our creativityand that we focus more on
numbers and data andspreadsheets and compliance
rather than the arts and freethought, rather than the arts
and free thought.
There's another veryfascinating, probably 10, 12
year old talk by what's his name?
I should have remembered thatname now that I'm talking about
(14:35):
it.
Sir Ken Robinson is his name,an English educator who says
curiosity is the engine ofachievement, right?
So without being curious, wewon't achieve anything, because
we will always be stuck in thestatus quo.
And how we can ask or how wecan show curiosity without
(15:00):
violating some of these culturalnorms in certain contexts is
maybe showing curiosity outsideof work, right?
You could ask, or you couldshow curiosity in, what would
happen if I did this outside ofthe workspace.
How would this show up in asocial setting, right?
(15:22):
Or you could ask someone that,or begin a conversation with,
letting them know that you areaware that they're more than the
job function that they'reserving in this organization.
I see you're a human beingoutside of this, so tell me more
about that, right?
So that would be curiosity thatdoes not diminish your subject
(15:47):
matter competency within, withinyour professional framework,
right?
However you approach this, you,I think it's, it's a continued
self-aware practice to show thatcuriosity.
And, and I don't know about you,but I've been told by mentors
(16:09):
or by people that I consider tobe teachers when I started out
in this field, that certainquestions are better not asked
in certain cultural contexts,that there is what we refer to
as quote-unquote taboos, topicsthat may or may not be
off-limits, and, sure, there arethese conversation pieces or
(16:34):
there are these life scenarioswhere we want to stay away from
certain things.
And I keep coming back toadvice from a gentleman that we
had on this program many, manymoons ago, pellegrino Riccardi,
who I attribute that phrase tohim that no question is ever off
(16:59):
limits, no level of curiosityis ever taboo If it comes from a
place of genuine, humblecuriosity.
So I think the, the, theturning point, or the, the, the
tipping point in in curiosity,could easily be there, across
(17:23):
cultures, where we violate thecalling in of information
mindset and instead presentourselves in a hey, what are you
doing and why the hell are youdoing it this way and already
inflicting some degree ofjudgment in the questioning,
some degree of judgment in thequestioning right?
(17:43):
So walking that line is maybenot intuitive to all of us, so
that's a continued practice andthat's what we work through with
our clients as they embark onthis adventure of working in a
new cultural context or new tothem.
That being curious doesn'tnecessarily mean that you are
(18:05):
judgmental or that you'redrawing other people's behavior
into question.
No, you are questioning yourown, quote-unquote normal.
How does my preset behavior,how does that align with yours?
And is one right or one wrong?
No, probably not.
(18:25):
But how can we createcommonality in this scenario?
How do we find a way that'sgood for both of us?
And without curiosity, that'shard to figure out.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, and may I suggest that just what you've
described there means it's avery nuanced approach.
It takes some deft skill tounderstand the situation you're
in and what's appropriate andhow to question and how to be
curious.
May I suggest that brings usback to there are many ways to
(18:56):
skin a cat.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
We shouldn't be skinning cats, man, that's so
uncouth.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
But I don't even know where the saying comes from.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Sorry, it just came to mind I wonder where all these
phrases about cats come from.
Weren't cats, the first animalthat humans domesticated.
I think the ancient Egyptiansdid right.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah, I mean, they're all hieroglyphics.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
So why would we want the cat to be killed by its
curiosity?
Why would we skin it?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Leave the cats alone that's right, leave them alone.
They were just going abouttheir business before we came
along.
You know, they were here beforeus saber-toothed tiger and all
of that stuff, and they have amind of their own and I they.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
They may be curious in a way that we don't recognize
I, I think in that green roombrett mentioned um earlier.
You, you made that comment thatcats don't give a rat's ass.
There we have another one.
They don't give a rat's ass.
There we have another one.
They don't give a rat's assabout them.
Rats, they're not reallycurious, they're just being cats
.
Well, maybe the way we showcuriosity is nuanced, right.
(20:08):
That is also maybe a functionof culture.
How do I express my curiosity?
I come from a culture that isvery literal and what you see is
what you get in form of ourcommunication, and you will
notice my curiosity simply bythe choice of words and the
inflection of my tone.
But other cultures might not beas overt in their curiosity.
(20:30):
How do we entertain that?
How we engage with that Again,a function of culture, and your
curiosity, your willingness tolearn about this, will lead you
to success.
That's what we started out with.
You ain't got nothing withoutthat curiosity?
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Absolutely not.
We are curious, by the way,about what you think about this
and we will definitely listen tounderstand and we want to learn
from you.
Tell us what your thoughts areabout curiosity, how it shows up
in your culture, how you havelearned to practice this deft
skill of questioning in places.
(21:07):
If you are a cultural coach,mentor or trainer, in whatever
capacity, if you're in abusiness and you've got people
around you, how do you, uh, staycurious about the differences
that you see?
We're very curious to know,very curious to know, and the
way you do that is you subscribe, you hit the bell, as christian
said earlier, and and listen tous on the podcast, um, on every
(21:31):
, all the best.
Listen to us on the podcast onevery all the best platforms out
there, all the best.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
They're the only ones that would let us in, you know,
would be the best Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
And let me close this with one more quote that
includes curiosity and cats.
It's by Mark Twain a man whocarries a cat by the tail learn
something he can learn in noother way.
There we go, okay.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Well, let that sit in the soul and ruminate just for
a little bit and see what thatmeans.
And by the way, I'm interestedif anybody knows why do we have
all these things about catsanyway skinning?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
cats and killing cats , and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I'd be very interested to know Google's
boring.
I'd be very interested to knowGoogle's boring.
I'd rather hear from folks outthere.
So thank you again.
Good to see you again, mate,for another week, and we will
see you in the next episode ofTwo Chaps.
Many Cultures, where too muchculture is barely enough.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Ciao for now.
Meow, meow, meow Meow.
Ciao for now.
But the danger of getting a whole bunch of hate
mail about this.
What I'm about to say curiosity, didn't kill the cat.
Cats don't give a crap what youdo, they go about their life.
They don't have owners, theyhave staff.
That's kind of my attitude tocats.
I love cats, don't get me wrong.
But are they really curious?
Is curiosity going to kill them?
(00:22):
I argue not, because, again,they may have random little
attention spans, but are theytruly curious?
Are they intentional aboutunderstanding the love they
might share for their owners orother cats?
I argue not.
So let's think about how doesthat kind of tie into today's
topic?
We argue that culture, or lackof understanding of culture, may
(00:45):
be the very thing that mightkill possibility and
interactions.
So we're going to chat aboutthat.
Welcome to Two Chaps.
Many Cultures.
In an increasingly globallyconnected world, it is vital to
possess the essential skills ofcultural intelligence.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Listen along as we present the topics, tips and
strategies you can use todevelop the power of cultural
understanding in your personaland professional life.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Here are your hosts Christian Huffala and Brett
Parry.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Meow.
Welcome back, feline lovers.
Yet another episode of Two Cats, many Cultures.
Oh no, two Chaps, many Cultures.
These two cats going wild overthe culture stuff.
This is Two Chaps, manyCultures, the weekly show about
(01:41):
the business of culture and theculture of business, the number
one show globally on that topic.
Only here, and if you'recurious, ring that bell,
subscribe to the channel.
Never miss an update.
Watch all the past episodes inthe archive and there are quite
(02:02):
a few if you're curious andyou're willing to dig.
So enough with the cattynonsense.
What are we going to talk abouttoday?
We're going to talk aboutcuriosity.
No, it's not killing the cat.
Curiosity, or rather lackthereof, is what's going to ruin
your global professionalendeavors, because if you're not
(02:25):
curious, what else you got towork with?
Bloody nothing.
Yes, we're going to get somehate mail and comments.
Yes, we're being too abrasive.
Christian the German is beingsuper direct again and so brash.
Yeah, that's who I am, but I amalso curious how you will
respond to that, because we'retrying to trigger or needle you
(02:48):
a little bit about this, becauseunless you are curious about
your environment in which you'reoperating, you're not going to
learn anything new.
And isn't that what culturalcompetence.
At least part of it is aboutBrett.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Well, I've certainly discovered that I probably was
guilty when I was growing up ofnot being as curious as I
probably should have been.
But now that I'm living outsideof my culture and I'm married
to somebody that's not from myculture and I get to hang out
with not only clients butfriends and family even people
in my family came from differentcultures and they've explained
(03:26):
a lot about what they do and howthey do it and what makes them
do it.
So I probably should have beena little bit more competent back
then.
Even in business, when Iemployed people from different
backgrounds, I probably tookadvantage or took it for granted
just what they bought with themand didn't value it as much as
I did so in a serious tone.
(03:47):
Yes, uh, we'll take all the hatemail about the hate for cats,
but we will.
We will certainly stand on ourown on the courage of our
convictions.
Anyway, christian and I shareof the deep curiosity about
people.
We were talking in the greenroom.
We've got to call it the greenroom now.
It's kind of our color it isgreen.
It is green.
(04:07):
We were talking about this interms of what we share.
When we are traveling around,we observe the world, we observe
people.
I was saying, sitting in a,nothing better for me than to
sit in an airport lounge andwatch the human condition pass
by and I'm constantly makingstories up in my brain about, uh
, what they're, where people aregoing, where they come from,
(04:30):
what languages they speak, and,of course, all of these things
are through the eyes of justwatching the physical exterior
of people.
But I don't.
I've had the most wonderfulconversations with people when
I've struck up a chat here andthere and realize that this
person speaks five languages youknow, or they've lived in five
(04:50):
different countries, and then webuild an affinity right.
And that curiosity, I argue,would be the key component as to
where it's got me today and howI get to do this work, or Chris
and I get to do this work.
Is that curiosity is driven bya real, unquenchable thirst for
(05:12):
new knowledge?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, and I'm willing to die on that hill, that I'm
saying, yeah, without curiosity,I ain't got nothing going for
you, got nothing going for you,and I will throw you that ball
of wool down that hill so youcan play with it.
My, my, my little cat dying ofhere now.
Here.
Here's what triggered this,when when you said, um, you, you
(05:35):
enjoy observing and watchingthe human condition and I know
this may be super subjective,because both of us, you and I,
would probably lean more on theextrovert end of the spectrum
and it is rather easy for youand I to approach complete
(05:56):
strangers because we feel that'san okay behavior.
And I have family members, Ihave friends who would rather,
would rather, hide under underthree blankets before they
started doing that.
My children will tell you thatit is cringe worthy how I
(06:17):
approach complete strangers inpublic and ask questions and my,
my youngest daughter goes likedad's doing it again.
We're not going to get out ofhere for another hour because he
just struck up a conversationwith a complete stranger.
We could have long been outsideof this store already.
No, but he has to talk to them.
So I get that Not everybody isis that way and maybe I'm just
(06:51):
weird in that in that sense, butnothing new ever happened in
humanity or human history.
Without questioning the statusquo, I want to say it is an
einstein quote that you, if youwant progress, you need to keep
questioning everything.
Now again, I understand thatsome people have a hard time
doing that and I would arguethat we are to a certain degree,
(07:13):
a product of our own system andwe are a product of our Western
industrialized educationalsystem, where we learn to comply
and to obey.
Obedience very often comes frommoral, religious structures.
(07:33):
Very often, whether it's in theChristian, muslim, jewish,
buddhist, whatever worldreligion world, there is always
a degree of obedience to thehigher power.
And in industrialized nationsthe school system wants to
produce graduates and we want toshape them in a certain form.
(07:54):
It's usually a standardized wayof educating us to compliance
and to follow the rules and notdraw with the crayons outside of
the lines.
I know this might be acontentious deduction here, but
this is the opposite of beingcurious, right?
That curiosity is that we arebeing taught not to be too
(08:16):
curious, because if we ask toomany questions, somebody who is
in a position of authority, whois our elder, may not have the
answer and that would make themrather uncomfortable.
So curiosity we try to press itdown a little bit and yet
nothing.
We will learn nothing, we willnot be able to absorb new
information if we don't havethat curiosity.
That's why I'm saying, withoutcuriosity, we don't have
(08:39):
anything to work with.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
And we've talked to guests we've discussed this
before in previous episodesabout this is where art comes in
and creativity, the practice ofmaking something.
That is, whether it be music,whether it be art, whether it be
any kind of creative pursuit.
Seth Godin talked about this inhis talk about education that
(09:01):
nobody asks people to make a newcanvas, nobody asks people to
make a new music.
People just do it becausethey're intentionally curious
about what will be the outcome.
But again, you know, we mightthink about.
I've talked about the conceptof watching other people and
watching the human condition.
However, I think that really,my curiosity was then even more
(09:25):
peaked when I learned theimportance of understanding
myself, like being deeplycurious about where I came from,
how that makes me turn up as abusiness leader, how it makes me
turn up as a husband, as afriend, as a business partner.
So that's an important part,right too?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
as a business partner .
So that's an important part,right too?
Yeah, I agree, and I think weare.
And I go back to conditioning.
I think we are often conditionedto perform right, to know
something or be competent insomething, especially if we work
in a kind of a corporatesetting or a professional
setting, and arguably most ofthe people who watch us rant
(10:04):
about stuff like this do work insome sort of global context.
So if you're watching this, youprobably work in a global
environment.
Your job is to perform, to knowsomething, to have subject
matter expertise in what you doand do not what you do best.
Fantastic.
So we're conditioned to know.
We're conditioned to giveinformation to be interesting to
(10:32):
others.
We're not necessarilyconditioned to be interested in
other things and other people innew information.
So asking questions could giveus the feeling that we sound
stupid.
By asking a question, oh, wedon't know something.
Well, aren't we supposed toknow everything Because we've
(10:54):
reached that level of hierarchyor competency or responsibility
in our organization and now I'masking questions.
Does that make me look stupid?
I argue it doesn't.
I think the humble inquiry ishow you actually get people to
perform at the highest level,and I'm sure I'm putting my
(11:17):
coaching hat on when I say thisTelling people to do something
will always create some sort ofresistance.
Asking them how they would liketo complete the task will
inspire, ideally, or invite, newways of completing the task
(11:38):
that I would have probably notthought of had I not asked that
question.
So without that curiosity, Iwill always be stuck in my mode
of operating.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
I start out all again with the coaching hat or the
training hat or the mentoringhat, whatever it is.
I start out with telling peoplelike listen, this is not a
lecture.
First of all, I'm not smartenough to be a lecturer and
certainly not I bring humility.
That's kind of a of a culturalthing.
Of course we have to thinkabout culture as a reflection of
the people that show up.
(12:08):
I think me.
I just prefer to ask and tellpeople, make it clear.
You know it's a conversation.
This is a two-way intentionalconversation of me having to
understand me, first, where Icome from, then you inviting you
, and then, when you tell methat I listen, like Christian's
(12:29):
saying, I am listening with theintent to understand and not to
respond.
You know it's difficult for allof us to do that.
Our brain, if we're operatingin a very fast-paced environment
, is taught to kind of react andmaybe argue.
You know, especially becauseChristian and I are in the US
environment here.
This is even the legal systemhere is an adversarial system by
(12:55):
its very name.
It's called that and it's meantto be, and this culture
promotes that because that isseen as a necessary part of an
interaction.
However, other cultures aremore kind of softly developed in
terms of relationships andthings like that.
So I think this is theimportant part always
(13:17):
understanding the culturalaspect.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
And very often leaders in certain cultures are
more hierarchical.
Cultures are expected to havethe answers right and, as a
leader in such a culture, to bethe inquisitive part and
admitting that she or he doesn'tknow everything might make them
look weak and that therefore itmight be discouraged to be or
(13:48):
to display that level ofcuriosity.
But there's other ways to becurious to let uh to, to invite
new information.
Um, you mentioned seth godinearlier.
Who who talks about in I thinkit was a TED Talk or in one of
his speeches about this how ourWestern society has put
(14:12):
limitations on our creativityand that we focus more on
numbers and data andspreadsheets and compliance
rather than the arts and freethought, rather than the arts
and free thought.
There's another veryfascinating, probably 10, 12
year old talk by what's his name?
I should have remembered thatname now that I'm talking about
(14:35):
it.
Sir Ken Robinson is his name,an English educator who says
curiosity is the engine ofachievement, right?
So without being curious, wewon't achieve anything, because
we will always be stuck in thestatus quo.
And how we can ask or how wecan show curiosity without
(15:00):
violating some of these culturalnorms in certain contexts is
maybe showing curiosity outsideof work, right?
You could ask, or you couldshow curiosity in, what would
happen if I did this outside ofthe workspace.
How would this show up in asocial setting, right?
(15:22):
Or you could ask someone that,or begin a conversation with,
letting them know that you areaware that they're more than the
job function that they'reserving in this organization.
I see you're a human beingoutside of this, so tell me more
about that, right?
So that would be curiosity thatdoes not diminish your subject
(15:47):
matter competency within, withinyour professional framework,
right?
However you approach this, you,I think it's, it's a continued
self-aware practice to show thatcuriosity.
And, and I don't know about you,but I've been told by mentors
(16:09):
or by people that I consider tobe teachers when I started out
in this field, that certainquestions are better not asked
in certain cultural contexts,that there is what we refer to
as quote-unquote taboos, topicsthat may or may not be
off-limits, and, sure, there arethese conversation pieces or
(16:34):
there are these life scenarioswhere we want to stay away from
certain things.
And I keep coming back toadvice from a gentleman that we
had on this program many, manymoons ago, pellegrino Riccardi,
who I attribute that phrase tohim that no question is ever off
(16:59):
limits, no level of curiosityis ever taboo If it comes from a
place of genuine, humblecuriosity.
So I think the, the, theturning point, or the, the, the
tipping point in in curiosity,could easily be there, across
(17:23):
cultures, where we violate thecalling in of information
mindset and instead presentourselves in a hey, what are you
doing and why the hell are youdoing it this way and already
inflicting some degree ofjudgment in the questioning,
some degree of judgment in thequestioning right?
(17:43):
So walking that line is maybenot intuitive to all of us, so
that's a continued practice andthat's what we work through with
our clients as they embark onthis adventure of working in a
new cultural context or new tothem.
That being curious doesn'tnecessarily mean that you are
(18:05):
judgmental or that you'redrawing other people's behavior
into question.
No, you are questioning yourown, quote-unquote normal.
How does my preset behavior,how does that align with yours?
And is one right or one wrong?
No, probably not.
(18:25):
But how can we createcommonality in this scenario?
How do we find a way that'sgood for both of us?
And without curiosity, that'shard to figure out.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, and may I suggest that just what you've
described there means it's avery nuanced approach.
It takes some deft skill tounderstand the situation you're
in and what's appropriate andhow to question and how to be
curious.
May I suggest that brings usback to there are many ways to
(18:56):
skin a cat.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
We shouldn't be skinning cats, man, that's so
uncouth.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
But I don't even know where the saying comes from.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Sorry, it just came to mind I wonder where all these
phrases about cats come from.
Weren't cats, the first animalthat humans domesticated.
I think the ancient Egyptiansdid right.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah, I mean, they're all hieroglyphics.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
So why would we want the cat to be killed by its
curiosity?
Why would we skin it?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Leave the cats alone that's right, leave them alone.
They were just going abouttheir business before we came
along.
You know, they were here beforeus saber-toothed tiger and all
of that stuff, and they have amind of their own and I they.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
They may be curious in a way that we don't recognize
I, I think in that green roombrett mentioned um earlier.
You, you made that comment thatcats don't give a rat's ass.
There we have another one.
They don't give a rat's ass.
There we have another one.
They don't give a rat's assabout them.
Rats, they're not reallycurious, they're just being cats
.
Well, maybe the way we showcuriosity is nuanced, right.
(20:08):
That is also maybe a functionof culture.
How do I express my curiosity?
I come from a culture that isvery literal and what you see is
what you get in form of ourcommunication, and you will
notice my curiosity simply bythe choice of words and the
inflection of my tone.
But other cultures might not beas overt in their curiosity.
(20:30):
How do we entertain that?
How we engage with that Again,a function of culture, and your
curiosity, your willingness tolearn about this, will lead you
to success.
That's what we started out with.
You ain't got nothing withoutthat curiosity?
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Absolutely not.
We are curious, by the way,about what you think about this
and we will definitely listen tounderstand and we want to learn
from you.
Tell us what your thoughts areabout curiosity, how it shows up
in your culture, how you havelearned to practice this deft
skill of questioning in places.
(21:07):
If you are a cultural coach,mentor or trainer, in whatever
capacity, if you're in abusiness and you've got people
around you, how do you, uh, staycurious about the differences
that you see?
We're very curious to know,very curious to know, and the
way you do that is you subscribe, you hit the bell, as christian
said earlier, and and listen tous on the podcast, um, on every
(21:31):
, all the best.
Listen to us on the podcast onevery all the best platforms out
there, all the best.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
They're the only ones that would let us in, you know,
would be the best Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
And let me close this with one more quote that
includes curiosity and cats.
It's by Mark Twain a man whocarries a cat by the tail learn
something he can learn in noother way.
There we go, okay.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Well, let that sit in the soul and ruminate just for
a little bit and see what thatmeans.
And by the way, I'm interestedif anybody knows why do we have
all these things about catsanyway skinning?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
cats and killing cats , and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I'd be very interested to know Google's
boring.
I'd be very interested to knowGoogle's boring.
I'd rather hear from folks outthere.
So thank you again.
Good to see you again, mate,for another week, and we will
see you in the next episode ofTwo Chaps.
Many Cultures, where too muchculture is barely enough.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Ciao for now.
Meow, meow, meow Meow.
Ciao for now.
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