29 Years Wrongfully Convicted: Bruce Bryan’s Journey With Cops Who Listen

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_04 (00:00):
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(00:20):
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Thank you for listening.

(01:02):
Got some disappointing news.
He tried to make it up untilabout the last hour.
And today, the last I heard fromhim was around noon, and I have

(01:22):
not heard from him since.
And I've been trying to get ahold of him.
So we got ghosted again.
So if you guys want to tune off,I completely understand.
I apologize.
Um, however, the show's gonna goon.
I've already pulled up somevideos, I got everything going,
and uh we we got stuff we cantalk about, right?

(01:44):
I mean plan.
We've always got shit we cantalk about, so um, you know,
like uh we can talk about Mattand what he's got going on now
that he's you know about toretire.
What's that like?

SPEAKER_03 (01:58):
Oh my gosh.
Stressful.
My wife's on me about thefinancial what are we gonna do?
This and that.

SPEAKER_04 (02:04):
Right?
Oh yeah, yeah, babe.
I'm a podcaster, I'm good.

SPEAKER_03 (02:08):
Yeah, that's what I said.
I said one dollar is gonna makeus millions, babe.

SPEAKER_04 (02:11):
Yeah, yeah, we got this.
Craig said he canceled again.
Yep, he canceled again.
I can tell you guys this.
I'm not asking him again.
So is what it is.
I'm not gonna judge everybody'sgot shit that happens.
Could it happen two weeks in arow?
Yes, it could.
If he wants to make that up,he's gonna have to let me know
this time because I don't chasewaterfalls.

(02:35):
You know, TLC taught me, don'tgo chase waterfalls.

SPEAKER_03 (02:38):
You put that song in my head tonight, man.
We're fighting.

SPEAKER_04 (02:43):
Uh just stick to the rivers and the lakes that you're
used to.
That's what you do, guys.
It's oh go into the comments.
I see Mr.
Uh Mr.
Billfold's on there.
Uh he said, tune off, stopsmoking crack.
I'm a billfold, my guy.
Right?
I actually have one of hisvideos queued up that he sent

(03:04):
in.
He wanted us to do a breakdownon.
So uh we will throw that outthere.
Um, Banning, you said you wantedto uh take a moment out for
today because you had some uhsome news.

SPEAKER_00 (03:16):
Yeah, it looks like I'm glitchy again.
Am I glitchy again?

SPEAKER_04 (03:19):
You're yep, you're glitchy.

SPEAKER_00 (03:21):
Okay, are you gonna I'm gonna do this and then I'm
gonna disappear and reset thisrouter for the third time and
come back in.
But really quickly, day beforeyesterday, there was a Kansas uh
highway patrolman, and I believewe'll have to you'll have to
double check me on Google andlook it up, but I believe three
deputies uh 13 to 16 miles of uhsouth of Topeka, Kansas, uh were

(03:45):
shot when responding to uh uhdomestic family violence.
Houston Gas, uh buddy that we'vehad on the show several times,
who was also shot uh on adomestic violence 10 years ago,
reached out to me and said, Hey,let's try to make some
connections up there because heobviously wants to to help one
of these officers that was shotin the face and is recovering.
Uh so if anybody's got anyconnections in the Topeka,

(04:07):
Kansas or south of there, uh canget in touch with Eric or I on
LinkedIn, however, uh would loveto be able to reach out and um
help these folks out the bestthat we can.
Uh with that in mind, thank youfor listening to that.
I'm gonna get off of thisbecause my face is frozen and
I'm gonna try to come backbetter.

SPEAKER_04 (04:23):
All right, brother.
And I just got a text from ourguest.
He's on his way.
Oh, cool.
So there we go.
Um while we're waiting, whilewe're waiting, I want to make
sure, because I already teasedabout uh Mr.
Bill Fold's video and he's myguy.
So I want to make sure we takecare of him and uh let's let's

(04:44):
watch his video that he wantedus to do a little breakdown.
Oh, it's 15 fucking minutesthough.
Okay, we'll get through as muchas we can until Benning and our
guest arrive.
So we're gonna biggie size.
You can see that, right, Matt?
Yeah.
Yep.
Okay.
All right, let's see, let's juststart with this video.

SPEAKER_01 (05:06):
I don't looks kind of like it's a First Amendment
auditor, so everyone, where wego over your rights and not to
exercise them when dealing withpublic officials, especially law
enforcement.
Now watch all these policeofficers lie to this man about
every law in order to violaterights, but got completely
destroyed without a single wordbeing said.
But first, remember to like thevideo and leave a comment with
your thoughts to help us reachmore people to make them aware

(05:28):
of their rights and help endpolice misconduct.
I want to give credit to whoeverthis guy is.

SPEAKER_03 (05:34):
I've heard his videos before.

SPEAKER_04 (05:35):
People's court audit.
People's court audit.

SPEAKER_03 (05:38):
Yep, he's uh yeah, I heard I recognize his voice I
see.

SPEAKER_04 (05:42):
Yeah, I recognize the accent.
I just um he's not one that Iregularly check, but I have seen
his stuff.
So, um brother man.
Now, y'all can say what youwant, but this position right

(06:05):
here, if you ever wear an outervest carrier, is so fucking
comfortable.
People want to talk shit thatcops sand like this to be
douchey or whatever.
Listen, I'm gonna tell you rightnow, it is I put my hands in.
I put my whole hand in there.
I just let my weight my theweight hold because it kind of

(06:26):
presses, because my hands getcold easy.
Yeah, he just pulled from thatsnow.

SPEAKER_03 (06:31):
I've never done that because my arms don't reach that
like that.

SPEAKER_04 (06:34):
Yeah, well, that makes sense.
You got them little T Rex outlike this.
That's funny.
All right, let's keep going.

SPEAKER_02 (06:44):
How are you doing today?
I'm Officer Hoffman, JeffersonCity Police Department.
You know I'm contacting you.
Oh, he's going silent silent.
I can play a silent game, man.
I'm trying to contact you.
You have every right to recordme.
I want you to record me.
My camera's recording too.
Uh so thing is, man.

SPEAKER_04 (07:04):
Oh, we're not gonna get through it at all because uh
our guest, Bruce, is on.
Let's see here.
Let's uh stop sharing this.
Let's get Bruce.
Oh, Bruce is in the car.
Look at what's up, Bruce!

SPEAKER_09 (07:19):
Sorry, I'm sorry I took a few minutes too long.

SPEAKER_04 (07:23):
You're okay.
I was talking shit.
I goes, he ghosted me, boys.

SPEAKER_09 (07:27):
No, no, no, I apologize.
I would never do that.

SPEAKER_03 (07:30):
He was crying, Bruce.
We had we had to hold his headup.
He was crying like he cried realtears.

SPEAKER_09 (07:36):
I you know, I think it's important, man.
It's really, really importantthat, you know, guys like us
come together, right?
I mean, from all walks of life,because the reality is we all
get a bad rap, whether we're onone side or the other side.
We all we oftentimes don't sitand have these real
conversations, right?

(07:57):
And and that's what allows us toconnect, to to recognize and
acknowledge the humanity in eachof us, you know, from different
walks of life, from differentperspectives.
Sometimes it's really just abouta conversation to realize that
we all really want the samethings in life.

SPEAKER_05 (08:12):
Yep.

SPEAKER_09 (08:13):
And this this was this is so important to me um to
be here with you all, man,because and this is not just a
one-time thing.
I'm hoping that after this wecan continue to communicate and
see how we can, you know, shareyour voice with the world as
well as um as well as my voiceand how we can just try to
create a better environment forboth part for both of us.

SPEAKER_04 (08:35):
Love it.
Amen.

SPEAKER_03 (08:36):
Amen.
I love that, man.

SPEAKER_04 (08:37):
Love it, brother.
So um, I'll introduce myself.
We've talked on the uh text backand forth on the phone, but uh,
I am Eric Levine.
I am a current police officer,I'm a sergeant, uh, we'll just
say in North Texas, and um beenin policing in May.
It'll be 20 years.
I'm also in the Air Force.
Uh, I'm a cop in the Air Force,hence the name of the show, Two
Cops, One Donut.

(08:58):
I am both a military cop and amunicipal cop.
So you have that.
And then Matt, I'll let youintroduce yourself, sir.

SPEAKER_03 (09:05):
I'm Matt Thornton.
I'm a cop uh right outside ofChicago, been here 21 years, and
I also run uh nonprofits, acouple of nonprofits, and that's
that's my actual job that Iconsider.
So a couple of nonprofits, yeah,a couple of them, man.
We have a blast with them forthe kids of my city.
We bring them in and just mentorthem and and and take care of

(09:28):
them and uh show them show themshow them the best way.

SPEAKER_09 (09:31):
That's beautiful, man.

SPEAKER_03 (09:32):
That's bad.

SPEAKER_04 (09:33):
And then I'll let it man.
I'll let Banning introducehimself, but he's having some
connection issues, so he's beenbouncing in and out.
But Banning, we've got Bruce on.
I'll let you introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_00 (09:44):
Hey Bruce, first of all, thank you very much for
joining us tonight.
Sorry about my slow.
I'm out in the way back woods,so I got some slow internet
here.
Uh again, thank you for comingon.
Name's Banning Sweatland, uh,21-year law enforcement officer,
four years in the Marine Corpsbefore that.
Uh, I've done everything underthe roof within law enforcement,
and that's why we're I've joinedwith Eric to try to bring uh the

(10:06):
community and law enforcementtogether to see if we can find
some common ground.
Uh, but enough about me, man.
This this this show uh is aboutyou, and I'm just all inspired
to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_09 (10:15):
So thank you, brother, and I'm honored to be
here to share with you all.

SPEAKER_04 (10:19):
Um Bruce, one of the things that um helps us connect
with the community and what wetry to do on this show is we
have it's it's live streamed fora reason.
All of these people that are onthe chat right now, um they they
are very much a part of what wedo, why we do, and they will
hold our feet to the fire likenobody else because they want

(10:41):
policing to get better as well.
So do we.
Um, and you know, so you'll seecomments popping up on the
bottom, like Mr.
Bill Fold, one of our regulars,he said, Don't drive and stream,
Bruce.
You might take another ride.

SPEAKER_08 (10:51):
Oh no, I'm not driving.
I'm not driving.
Yeah, give it to Mr.
Bill Fold.

SPEAKER_04 (10:57):
Yeah, yeah.
He said, Bruce, I watched you onJRE.
You are a better man than I forholding up against that kind of
injustice.
So, um, and not everybody hereknows your story.
So, Bruce, I know you've toldyour story a million times.
I'm not asking you to give thefull in-depth version because
what I want to get to tonight iswhere the system failed you, who

(11:20):
continued to fail you if theydid when you got in inside, and
how the fuck do we start fixingit?
That's what I want to know.
Because our job, what we can doas law enforcement, is we can
take your story and we can belike, you know what?
Here's where we started seeingsome of the screw-ups happen and
how we can prevent that fromhappening again.
I can't help what happened toyou.

(11:41):
It breaks my heart what happenedto you, and that's one of the
reasons why we wanted you onhere.
But I want those that may notknow your story, I want you to
tell that, and then once you getdone telling that, then let's
we'll start asking you somequestions along the way to start
you know getting to the root ofthe real issues that we all have
a hand in helping fix.

SPEAKER_09 (12:03):
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (12:03):
So uh the floor is yours, sir.

SPEAKER_09 (12:07):
Well, my name is Bruce DeBrian.
I grew up in New York City.
For the early part of my life, Igrew up in the Lower East Side,
Manhattan.
And then, which is where I amnow, I'm in Manhattan.
I'm in midtown actually, um, ata small event that we had a
powwow for stage plays andartists that are involved in the

(12:27):
arts, whether it's um writing oracting.
And we my family in 78 movedfrom Queens, moved from
Manhattan to Queens.
My father, who was from who, youknow, he hailed from Antigua,
West Indies, where all of mysiblings are from.
My mother's from Dominica.
Uh, my father actually wasworking in the hotel business in

(12:49):
Antigua, and someone saw him andhis work ethic and decided that
they wanted to offer him anopportunity to come to America.
So he came here in 68 and had mein um 69.
And for eight years we lived onthe Lower East Side.

(13:12):
Um after that, Low East Side wastough, but there was a lot of
love in the house, so we didn'treally understand what poverty
was because we had each other.
Two-bedroom apartment, six kids,both parents.
Um it was tough, but we had eachother, and like I said, as a

(13:33):
young person, you don't reallyunderstand poverty, you just
understand love.
You know, you understand thelove and support that you have
at home.

SPEAKER_05 (13:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 (13:42):
So in 78, when we moved to Queens, it was the
onsort of the crack era.
78, 79, then like by the time Ibecame 12, 13 years old, um
crack started coming into thecommunity.
You know, and then you startedseeing um, you know, you started

(14:03):
seeing corn street cornersloaded with crack dealers,
marijuana dealers, and the wholedrug scene started to really
develop.
It became more of what a of anopen market.
I guess prior to that, and maybein the in the 60s and 70s, I had
never I had never seen it in the70s when I was coming up in the
Lower East Side, not to thatdegree.

(14:24):
I mean, you saw people hangingout, you saw guys getting hot.
When I moved to Queens, you sawit was ubiquitous, it was
everywhere.
Um, and so you have theseinfluences that kind of pull you
in the wrong direction.
So during the course of thisage, um, you know, you start
seeing younger kids havingthings that you didn't have, and

(14:44):
you kind of gravitated andwanted some of that stuff.
So I took to the streets.
Um, yeah, you know, I've beenarrested as a kid, you know,
I've been I've been in juvenilesystems as a kid.
And all of this is what made iteasier for me to be arrested and
wrongfully convicted, because Ialready had um, you know, I

(15:04):
already had the streets in me atsome point at 13, 14 years old.
You were already outside andhanging out.
Um, that's no justification, butyou just understand that when
you're when you're outside umand you're involved in the
streets or you're hanging out asa young kid, you become a little
bit more susceptible to beingfalsely accused and arrested for
a crime.

(15:25):
So, fast forward to you know tothe mid-80s, um, that was the
crack boom.
And as you all know from Texas,um I'm sure Dallas and Houston,
there was, you know, I'm surethey had uh drug markets that
were heavy out there as well, aswell as in Austin, um, Texas.
And you saw it so much in NewYork City, especially in Queens.

(15:47):
Queens was kind of known for notjust having individual drug
dealers.
Queens was more known for likedrug crews, what they would say
were gangs now.
Back then they called themcrews.
So you would see, you know,20-man crews and everybody's
hustling and housing projectsand different things like that,

(16:08):
or hustling on blocks.
So it became a big, big thing,right?
It became huge in Queens.
I think TNT, the tacticalnarcotics team, was created
around 19, maybe 1988.
Around that time, maybe a littlebit before then.
After, I think after the deathof um Edward Byrne, which was a
young rookie cop that was thatwas essentially uh uh lost his

(16:32):
life during the drug epidemic inQueens.
Um so around that time itstarted getting really crazy,
and then you started seeingentire blocks being arrested and
being swept by law enforcement.
So if you were buying a bag ofmarijuana and they and and TNT
was doing a sweep during thattime, everybody went to jail,

(16:54):
including the lady in thesupermarket, if she looked like
she was holding a joint.
That's just how it was in NewYork City.
I don't know how it was in um inother states, but in New York
City, particularly in Queens,um, that's exactly how it was.
This would happen on a dailybasis.
So in 1993, it was still a lotof crack, still cocaine, a lot

(17:19):
of heroin, is when a youngperson was killed by a stray
bullet, and I was subsequentlycharged for a murder that I
didn't commit because they madeit seem like it was a drug crew.
And one of the major, major umflaws with my case was, you
know, is is is my attorney.

(17:42):
I had an attorney that had been,um, and this is gonna sound
crazy.
I had an attorney by the name ofReginald Tao, and I'll say his
name, who had been slashed byhis previous client.
He was a court-appointedattorney.
And he had been slashed in hisface by a previous um client
that he represented.

(18:03):
And as a result of that, he washe was see he was receiving
psychiatric treatment.
I was the very next client thathe had.
Oh the very next client.
And he was suffering frompost-traumatic stress.
Um, he admitted at a hearing inwhich he sued New York City.
He sued the city because he wasactually slashed while at work,

(18:27):
while in what we call thebullpins.
I don't know if you call themthat in Texas, but the bullpins
are like the court pens whereeverybody's going to court.
And so in those back cells whereyou may um be able to see your
attorney for some little bit ofprivacy before you go into the
courtroom, he went to see aclient back there.
And he was, and the clientcouldn't get rid of him through

(18:49):
the courts because he keptasking to get rid of him.
So he felt the best way to getrid of him, I assume, was to
slash him and it was attack himand slash him.
So he was flashed and attacked.
As a result of that, he sued thecity.
But he had what they call a 58 Chearing.
And at the 58 C hearing, heopenly said, I cannot relate to

(19:10):
clients in the same way.
And it's difficult for me to,I'm unable to create a defense
because I'm unable tocommunicate adequately with my
clients because of the PTSD.
I guess he felt fearful of thatincident, you know, shocked him.
No one expects to be anattorney, you go to see a client
and they attack you and slashyou.
You know what I mean?

(19:31):
Um, so I happened to be his nextguy, and that um that threw
everything for Lou because thisguy wouldn't, he I mean, he
literally wouldn't come see me,he wouldn't communicate with me.
He didn't have an in I don't I Ithink I'm the only guy in New

(19:52):
York that had a homicide thatdidn't have an investigator.
Right?
Okay, I mean everybody that'scharged with a homicide, your
lawyer has an investigator.
This guy had no investigator.
He just, it's like he was too inshock to actually build the
defense and sit and communicatewith me.
Never came to see me, never satdown and went over the case

(20:15):
thoroughly.
He would, for 13 months, I'm onRikers Island.
The first 13 months on RikersIsland, which was pure hell at
the time, it was the theonslaught, it was the beginning
of the of the gangs reallybecoming very popular.
The Latin Kings, the Bloods, theCrips becoming really popular on
Rikers Island.
And Rikers Island is the biggestpenile colony, probably in the

(20:37):
state.
It had over 20,000 people there.
And violence was at an all-timehigh.
And um for 13 months I didn'tsee a judge.
And this guy wouldn't tell meanything.

SPEAKER_04 (20:50):
So you're stuck in there for 13 months.

SPEAKER_09 (20:52):
Oh, I was stuck there for 30 months, but for the
first 13 I couldn't see alawyer.

unknown (20:58):
Wow.

SPEAKER_09 (21:01):
I literally couldn't see would come to the bullpen
and say, You're not seeing ajudge today, I'll talk to you
some other time.
I would say, Listen, I need totalk to you about my case, and
he would walk away and say,Well, we'll talk some other
time.
It didn't register in my mindthat the slash on his face was
similar to the one that Iwounded up receiving years later

(21:25):
in prison, or similar to theones that you see a lot of guys
on Rikers Island with.
It didn't register to me.
I'm the farthest thing from mymind is that my attorney was
slashed.
Right?
You think that that happens onlyto the guys in jail.
I see the long scar, because hemay be as received about 80
stitches.
So I'm I'm looking at him andI'm like, I'm paying the scar,

(21:46):
no mine.
And it's really about how you'regonna communicate with me, how
you're gonna help me get aroundthis case.
How you gonna contact mygirlfriend at the time?
How you gonna contact the cabdriver?
How you gonna contact thenecessary people?
How you gonna get the logbookfrom the cab stand?
You know, the different thingsthat would support my case.
And this guy didn't do anything,he didn't do anything for 30

(22:12):
months until I was uhsubsequently convicted of uh
murder and sentenced to 37 and ahalf to life.

SPEAKER_03 (22:21):
Damn.

SPEAKER_09 (22:22):
So one of the things I learned, you know, it was that
I couldn't change mycircumstances right away, so I
had to change myself.
And that began my journey ofpersonal development and
self-development andintrospection and in and digging
deep into trying to find out whyand how I got into this place to

(22:47):
begin with.
Yeah, um, so that was thebeginning of my journey.
Okay, that was and because thejourney for me was more internal
than um than external.

SPEAKER_04 (23:02):
Gotcha.

SPEAKER_09 (23:02):
More internal because once you realize that
you can't change yourenvironment, you you realize
that you have to changeyourself.

SPEAKER_04 (23:10):
So you get in, you get convicted, and you start
doing the self-improvement, andthen the next thing is getting
educated enough to help on yourown defense.

SPEAKER_09 (23:24):
Yeah, to help on my own defense, absolutely, because
nobody else is gonna help me.

SPEAKER_04 (23:30):
Right.
This is interesting, by the way.
I feel like we're in the bigcity.
What's going on?

SPEAKER_09 (23:37):
I mean, the law library.

SPEAKER_08 (23:40):
Don't let me go.

SPEAKER_09 (23:41):
The law library was important to me.
I need an arm.
Okay.
I'm helping my old timer get inthe car.

SPEAKER_04 (23:48):
Oh, no worries.
This is this is gold, baby.
I love it.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 (23:57):
So I'm just helping my old timer get in.
Okay.
No, don't close this yet becauseI gotta put the wheelchair in
the fine.

SPEAKER_04 (24:05):
Do you want to do you want to handle your stuff
and jump back on?

SPEAKER_09 (24:08):
No, you can stay.
You can stay.
I'm just putting them in thecar.
My girls go drop.
Come on, put you in the front.

SPEAKER_04 (24:15):
Love it.
Yeah.
Love it.
I love it too.
This is live.
No.
I love it.
I'm going to the comments.
One of the biggest issues in thesystem is the public defender's
office, the lack of budget theyhave, and the size of caseloads
the attorneys have.

SPEAKER_08 (24:34):
Can you get past that water?
I can't get in with the waterthere.
You're coming a little faster.
She's gonna bring it closerbecause she says she does we
don't want your water to touchyou.
So he said, Don't worry aboutthe water.

SPEAKER_06 (24:48):
You can help him.
He can't get it back.

SPEAKER_04 (24:51):
This is awesome.
I love it.
Who's who's holding us?
Ma'am?

SPEAKER_06 (24:58):
Yes.
Ma'am.

SPEAKER_04 (24:59):
Hi, and camera.

SPEAKER_06 (25:01):
Oh, it's Alison Fla.
Hi.
What's up, lady?
How's it going?

SPEAKER_04 (25:06):
I'm good.
How are you doing?

SPEAKER_06 (25:08):
Um, I'm good.
I don't know the context, but Ican tell it's iconic.
If Bruce Black is there, I cantell it's good.

SPEAKER_04 (25:15):
We're having a good time.
We're uh we're hearing Bruce'sstory.
And you are live to hundreds ofthousands of people right now.

SPEAKER_06 (25:24):
Oh, that is good to know.

SPEAKER_04 (25:26):
I mean, it would be hundreds of thousands of people.
It would be hundreds ofthousands if we were Joe Rogan,
but we're not Joe Rogan.
So you got like you got tens of20.

SPEAKER_06 (25:37):
Incredible.
Well, I'm sure Bruce, oh, pleasedon't close your finger in
there.
Um, I don't know if Bruce liketold you he's the best dressed
person in the entire world.
Is he no one has better fashion?

SPEAKER_04 (25:53):
So what's the first one?

SPEAKER_06 (25:54):
And he was actually his nickname in prison, it was
actually fashion.
I don't know if that's a secret.
I'm telling hundreds ofthousands of people.

SPEAKER_04 (26:00):
Oh fashion, huh?

SPEAKER_06 (26:04):
Yes, he always has a full outfit.
He's always rocking a fit.

SPEAKER_04 (26:10):
Okay.
All right.

SPEAKER_06 (26:13):
To the function.

SPEAKER_04 (26:15):
That could be a dictionary.
In Texas, anyway.

SPEAKER_06 (26:21):
But we really are live streaming.

SPEAKER_04 (26:23):
We are so live streaming.

SPEAKER_06 (26:24):
So lady should not tell me this, Bruce.

SPEAKER_04 (26:30):
So what is your what what is your function out there,
ma'am?

SPEAKER_06 (26:35):
What is my function at the function?
I'm a friend of Bruce.
Okay.
Um, I uh teach uh uh art andself-care workshops to uh with
incarcerated uh women, and soI'm very passionate about um uh
human rights for theincarcerated, and Bruce is just
as you uh probably have alreadylearned, kind of a stunning
example of um grace.

SPEAKER_04 (26:56):
Lovely for good.
She needs to be our next guest.
She needs to guess I love it.

SPEAKER_09 (27:10):
It sounds like you need to be the next guest.

SPEAKER_04 (27:14):
Yes, I got a lot to say.
I'm down.
I'm down.
Um so we had a pretty goodquestion here um from one of our
guys.
It said, uh, but are we supposedto just go into cuffs willingly
and take a ride and hope that weget justice?
Would Bruce have been right tofight the cops who wrongfully

(27:35):
arrested him?

SPEAKER_09 (27:37):
Uh absolutely not, because they shoot uh up here in
New York City.
So, so you you know, unless youwant to lose your life.
Wherever there's life, there'shope.
So, especially when you knowdeep inside that you're actually
innocent, you in your mind, yourprocessing is saying that I'll

(27:57):
be out of here shortly.
Yeah, you know it's gonna take20 to 20, 29 calendars later,
but you all in your mind it'slike I'll be out of here.
So why would I fight physicallyfight the cops when I know that
there's always a potential tolose my life in that in that
fight?

SPEAKER_04 (28:16):
Yeah, yeah.
Uh Jeff Parrish said, Bruce,love you, loving on your fam and
helping them.
So you're getting some love.
Yeah.
If there's what what was it?
If there's life, there's hope.

SPEAKER_09 (28:30):
Wherever there's life, there's hope.

SPEAKER_03 (28:31):
I like that.
Yeah, Bruce has a quote foreveryone.

SPEAKER_04 (28:41):
I was gonna say, I think we're gonna use that one.
I like that.
Where there's life, there'shope.

SPEAKER_06 (28:46):
What were you saying to me on the phone this morning?
You just kept saying umpunctuality is presumed this
morning.
Punctuality is presumed.
Yes, yes.
That was an Alan original.

SPEAKER_04 (29:01):
I like it.
Yep.
Um, yeah, and Andy Fletcher saidthe question isn't whether it's
right or whether it's smart, butis it right?

SPEAKER_09 (29:11):
It's I think I think there's no perfect system,

(32:10):
right?
Um, of course we can do better,but when you learn, like when
you get a little moreperspective is when you begin to
travel to different systems,right?
Yeah.
So I go to Kenya and Uganda andI see 175 people in the cell
that that oftentimes don't seelawyers for sometimes a decade.

(32:32):
So, you know, you say, well, uhwell, our system is bad, but my
God, um you know, what kind ofsystem is this?

SPEAKER_05 (32:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 (32:42):
Right?
Which is um a throwback to uhyou know British colonialism in
Kenya.
You still see prisons likecommittee, where the uh the mile
miles were.
were hung and you see peoplethere that are sentenced to
death for stealing a cell phoneor for stealing a mango off of a
tree and because they use theknife to cut the vine is

(33:06):
considered to be an armedrobbery.
And so you see young womensentenced to death for for
things like that.
You begin to gain perspectiveand say, well, you know, I was
in the cell by myself for 29years.
Not 170 people, not 150 people.
You know, it's a hugedifference.

(33:26):
So things, I still like to saythings can be a lot worse.

SPEAKER_04 (33:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 (33:30):
Right?
They could be a lot worse.

SPEAKER_04 (33:33):
Would you consider yourself an optimistic person?

SPEAKER_09 (33:36):
Absolutely.
More than that.

SPEAKER_04 (33:40):
It sounds like you and I are you and I are going to
get along famously because I amuh I am optimistic to my own
detriment.
So um I get I get a lot of shitfrom our followers because they
think I've got the rose coloredglasses about fixing police
work.
Where I'm just like looksomebody's got to try.

(34:00):
If I'm not doing it who's goingto do it so exactly that's where
this little coalition of uh copsthat you see on here that's this
is our goal.

SPEAKER_09 (34:11):
I think if you have to be able to reimagine what it
can be.
Yeah right um and and againthere's no perfect system but it
can always be better.
We can always do more to make itbetter because as I say if you
want more you got to be more butwe become more to the system and
to the people um there's alwaysthe potential to change and make

(34:33):
things better.
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (34:35):
Alan you wanted to say something no I just want to
write down all your quotes loveit.

SPEAKER_04 (34:43):
And Ruth I had a question.

SPEAKER_03 (34:45):
Yes how how long till you were you said 30 months
and then you got sentenced howlong Raggers Island keep you on
there forever man how how longtill you were finally able to
like be heard like tell somebodylike a courtroom or somebody
like about the tragic thetragedy I didn't see a judge
till after about 14 months.

SPEAKER_09 (35:06):
So I would wake up at least once maybe sometimes
twice a month 430 in the morningget ready for court because
that's what time the bus comesget you on Rikers Island for
court.
435 in the morning you sit inthe bullpen's and they give you
what they call bullpen therapyfor the next 10 hours you're
eating a bologna cheese sandwichif you you know if you decide if

(35:28):
you can actually consume thatright or you are eating a peanut
butter and jelly with somereally hard thick peanut butter
in there too and you're waitingto see a judge and then the
judge nine times out of ten saysyou gotta you gotta uh you know
you got adjourned.
But you don't you don't gobefore the judge your lawyer

(35:49):
just says in the back boyfriendyou got adjourned I'll see you
next week that's the mostconversation I would receive
from my attorney.

SPEAKER_04 (35:57):
You had kind of touched on it earlier that you
had gone to Uganda and youlooking at the um the inmates
and stuff like that over thereum and that's a program right
Justice Defenders JusticeDefenders is a nonprofit
organization that brings higherlegal education and training to

(36:17):
incarcerated men and women in 22prisons in Kenya and Uganda.

SPEAKER_09 (36:22):
I've got their because they actually they don't
have access to public defenderslike that unless you have a a
death penalty case as we do herein the United States.

SPEAKER_04 (36:33):
Okay I've got their website pulled up right now just
so people can check them outit's justice dash defenders dot
org um yes and I'm sharing theweb page right now and and you
know what's fascinating is thatwhat's fascinating is that they
um become very good legaladvocates paralegals and earning

(36:56):
their law degrees through theUniversity of London.

SPEAKER_09 (37:00):
Not only are they good but they're helping the
officers learn with them side byside.
Oh really and that's the modelthat we yes so the officers and
the incarcerated people areprovided with free legal
education and they have onerequirement to help free someone
else inside the prison.
Yeah so you got correctionofficers in these prisons that

(37:25):
file motions and represent someof the very same people that
they supervise.
Oh man and there's noorganization on the planet
that's doing that other thanthat no there's not I never
heard anything like that.
But it's a great way for you tobe game one for to see the
humanity and those that areincarcerated and to work side by

(37:46):
side with them right yeah sothat allows you to have some
level of solidarity with theofficers and the incarcerated
people.
So now you're building acommunity because you see
violence dissipate literally ifI got an officer that's helping
me earn my freedom that'shelping me understand the law I
don't have an issue with him Ithat's that's that becomes my

(38:08):
that becomes my conversationyeah yeah let another inmate try
to fuck with him exactly yeahand when you go when you go
inside these prisons over thereit's completely different it's
not an adversarial relationshipbetween the officers and the
incarcerated people for severalreasons one is because of the

(38:30):
legal training but also you yougotta imagine that many of them
are probably from the sametribes so they all look the same
right um when you I saw one um Isaw one Asian lady one Chinese
lady in the entire prison calledLangata which is the women's

(38:50):
prison that has about 700 women650 to 700 women in there um but
they're all uh African women andthey're learning the law they're
studying the law a group of themabout 25-30 of them and they
take cases from their peersinside and they're winning
appeals and getting them back incourt getting time cuts getting

(39:13):
them home bringing up mitigatingcircumstances many of them were
subject to domestic violence andyou know uh decided to respond
after crying out for years andthey wind up killing their
husbands or killing their theirspouse yeah and they're
sentenced to death when theselawyers when these uh officers
who are lawyers now become beganrepresenting them they actually

(39:36):
get them time cuts some of themget home um it's just it's
unbelievable the work that yousee being done and I imagine
it's because they're not goingto school just to be a lawyer
they're going to school to fightfor their life.
Yeah it's a big difference.
So I'm not just gonna study thelaw I'm gonna eat sleep and
breathe the law if that's whatit takes for me to get out of

(39:59):
here.

SPEAKER_04 (39:59):
Now I I want to get to some of the I want to know
how the injustices happened butwhat I really want to know is
what was the battle like for anyou know for an incarcerated
person to try to get up in frontof people and say I've studied
the law now you need to listento me how did you get them to

(40:22):
listen because that's the waythat I equate that is when
somebody gets on the internetand they're like well I you know
I know the law because I Googledsomething.
You know like when you hear iton the internet you never really
quite take it that seriousbecause you're like well where'd
you study law oh I studied onthe internet.

SPEAKER_09 (40:40):
You mean like Kim Kardashian failing the ball for
about the sixth time?

SPEAKER_04 (40:45):
Right.

SPEAKER_09 (40:46):
Yeah exactly you know she she probably studies
the law but she doesn't reallyhave have to because you're a
billionaire so I study thisleisurely this is like you know
I do this in pastime but whenyou take a guy like me um I'm
fighting for my life and for myfreedom and to prove my

(41:07):
innocence.
So my take on it is a littledifferent.
But not only that for me it wasabout writing everybody and
their mother so I will in NewYork State you get five free
legal letters every week you'reallowed you're allowed to mail
five letters home five lettersthat not home but to a law firm

(41:27):
or to a legal entity for freeevery week.
No so every week I use my fivefree letters um to write law
firms to write lawyers I woundup writing well over 1000
letters holy shit I would seelawyers on TV and reach out to

(41:49):
them for assistance I would seeum you know read about lawyers
in the New York Times or the NewYork Post or the Daily News or
sometimes I just get thelawyer's diary and I pick 10
names and these would be the 10lawyers that I write for the
next two weeks.

SPEAKER_04 (42:05):
So when you're writing them are you giving them
legal arguments that you'vedeveloped or are you just
telling them your story?

SPEAKER_09 (42:11):
I'm g I'm telling my story with a little with some
legal knowledge that I developwith where I feel my case or my
injustice happened.
And I'm explaining to them inlegal jargon that they
understand.

SPEAKER_05 (42:26):
Okay.

SPEAKER_09 (42:27):
Right?
That they can say well all rightlet me give this guy a shot and
the reality is a lot of theselawyers are so overwhelmed with
cases particularly um publicdefenders that they don't give
adequate time to a case becausethey're not you know um they're
human and they it's the realityis when you got 50 cases and

(42:50):
you're one person that's a lotand you got each one of those
each person's case is importantto them yeah yeah right so
everybody's cases isn't moreimportant to them than it is to
anyone else you have to reallyreally pound the pavement you

(43:10):
got to really pound the pavementyou can't you gotta be
persistent persistence overcomesresistance right those water
drops those water drops are whatare what carve out uh things
inside of stones inside ofbricks that persistent and
consistent drops of water youcan begin to see a crack you can
begin to make a dent sopersistence overcomes resistance

(43:34):
and you just don't stop yeah yougotta be relentless in your own
advocacy and the hardest partthe hardest part for a person
that's incarcerated is learninghow to become their own advocate
because most 99% of the peopledon't know how to do that and
you have to you got to figure itout you got to figure out how to

(43:56):
advocate for yourself becauseyour voice matters right it's
just you gotta know that firstyou have to be the first person
to notice that my voice isimportant.

SPEAKER_04 (44:07):
Yeah and you have to stand on that one of the
questions from one of our uhaudience members said um Bruce
which organization advocated foryour release I know the system
as we know it did not listen toyou regardless of what you had
to say not everyone getsinnocence project help you're
right because I think theinnocence project might take

(44:29):
seven years to write you backsometimes um literally that's
not even an exaggeration becauseyou know they represent clients
across the country I got a guyby the name of law professor
Steve Zeitman who works at uhCooney School of Law I sent them

(44:50):
some work that I had done inprison and a couple of years
later he wrote me back and askedme have I ever considered
pursuing clemency?

SPEAKER_09 (45:03):
Now at this time no one has gotten clemency in New
York State so that's not even athing like I didn't even respond
to his letter because it made nosense to me like I, you know no
one's getting clemency.
You know he saw my work that Isent him years before about work
release and he responded to thatand said I saw your work I liked

(45:25):
it.
I held it for uh for years I'vehad it sitting in my jury I'm
getting ready to start um aclemency project and start on
executive clemency through thegovernor um and I like your work
and I just you know I look I seesome of the work you've been
doing in prison and I want toknow if you ever considered
pursuing clemency.

(45:46):
If so contact me I didn't writehim back for months a guy said
to me hey man um Steve Zeitmanis starting to uh starting to
really take take clemency casesand he's talking about coming in

(46:06):
there and I said yeah that guywrote me to go and they said you
wrote him back I said no ain'tnobody getting clemency man they
don't give out clemency in NewYork when you ever heard of
somebody getting a time cutthat's convicted for murder
whether you're innocent orguilty they don't it just
doesn't happen like that.
So I brushed it off.
Then he scheduled an appointmentto come inside the prison and

(46:28):
guys were saying this lawprofessor's coming in and he's
coming in to talk aboutclemency.
And he came in and I sat in theback and I still didn't pay him
much of mine.
But he came in with a bunch ofstudents about before and before
he left I walked over to him andI introduced myself and I said
you wrote me I'm Bush Brown andhe said yeah well you know when

(46:50):
you're gonna write me back youneed to write me back and I
started talking to him and Iintroduced him to two guys one
guy had um a hundred a hundredyears another guy had life
without parole and I decidedthat I would um write him back
in that moment you know and so Iwrote him back and he took on my

(47:14):
case and he began doing what youknow this extensive this deep
dive into not just my case butwho I was you know my family
where did I come from how did Iend up where I end up how what
was life like for me growing uplike every single thing he like

(47:37):
he dotted his I's and he crossedhis T's on Bruce Bryan right and
he really wanted to know who Iwas and this you know the what
he was developing you know itcovered every aspect of a person
he wanted to represent and hebegan to see look this guy's

(48:02):
doing serious work in here and Ibelieve in his innocence so his
his reason for going so deep oneis because you have to but he
admired the work that I wasdoing inside of prison.
Yeah and he admired me and heliked me as a person.
And so we begin to bond and hebegan to continuously go see my

(48:24):
mother sit with my family um gothrough every program every
certificate that I ever had inprison every organization that I
was a part of or started while Iwas in prison every single thing
um community members that knewme people that I was working
with from prison that I metwhile I was in prison or like a

(48:46):
friend of mine she has anorganization that caters to
children of incarcerated parentsand I began working with her
from the inception of herorganization.
So he would go to her and saywell you know what do you think
of him?
Tell us about him my brothersand sisters tell us about him.
The community the store ownerstell us about this guy um and he

(49:08):
developed this elaborate 499page packet not just talking
about who I was today incomparison to the young guy that
may have been involved in thestreet as a young person but he
began to you know he hedocumented my journey for the

(49:28):
past at the time I I had about25 years in because it took me
four years to actually four orfive years to actually get
executive clemency.
So he documented everything Ihad done in the prison um even
as going as far as contactingthe superintendent what some
people in some states callwardens what is this guy doing

(49:51):
in here?
He told that I had graduatedfrom college twice I graduated
from um uh different programsthat were you know master's
master's level even though Ididn't get a master's degree I
got my bachelor's I got myassociates so he began looking
at all of this and andeverything that I was doing and
he decided that he how importantit was to humanize right and to

(50:14):
to let the world see that thisyou know these people that are
inside are better than the worstthing they've ever done.
And I think that is what reallyum made eventually made my
executive emission packagesuccessful because I had been

(50:36):
overlooked since 2018 2019 toget about it he did he also did
a mitigating video on me.
So they would interview me onthe video for hours inside the
prison interview my mother myfamily the community all on
video and they would edit itdown to less than 10 minutes.
So people it's it's one thing toto hear about hear about a

(51:00):
person it's another to see himon camera on film speaking and
sharing his story.
And every year from 2018 untilthe ending Christmas 2022 I was
overlooked.
I wasn't denied but I wasoverlooked right so that what I

(51:21):
mean by that is they wouldsubmit 10 guys for executive
clemency and eight of them wouldget it and I wouldn't be one of
them right at the time governorCuomo was the governor of New
York State and he had donebefore he left out was pushed
out of office he had released afew dozen people and each time I

(51:45):
was in the race but I wasoverlooked gotcha yeah it wasn't
until Christmas 2022 thatGovernor Kathy Hokel decided to
grant me executive clemency.
And I was actually in the gymworking out and I I remember the

(52:07):
day like it was yesterday I wasin the gym lifting weights and
they called the officers calledme and said you got to go see
your counselor I said I'mworking out I'm not gonna see no
counselor now I don't have youknow what am I gonna see a
counselor for and he said allright so I continued to work out
and he got another call and saidit's a mandatory he has to come

(52:29):
up now.
So the officer came to me andsaid you gotta go uh I'll let
you back in the gym when youfinish but uh Brian you gotta go
uh you know you gotta gostraight you ain't you don't
even gotta go to your cell andchange your clothes just go
straight and see the counselorwe're gonna have an escort
waiting there for you up frontso I said all right I was a

(52:51):
little frustrated because Iwanted to use the phone so I go
to my counselor's office and I'mstanding up her name was Miss
Mimes and she says have a seatMr.
Bryan I said what what do youcall me for?
I said I was working out and Iwanted to use the phone you know
I didn't call my family all dayand you know we don't have
access we don't have gym tonightso I won't be able to call and

(53:13):
she said Mr.
Brian have a seat and I saidwon't you just talk tell me what
you want me she said Mr.
Brian have a seat and I sat downand she turned on her computer I
couldn't see the screen and shewent to her computer and she
said she began reading the orderand she got to the end that said

(53:34):
for Governor Kathy Hoke Governorof New York State um I have been
uh uh um requested to call youdown here and to inform you that
you just received executiveclemency um I damn near fell out
the chair I almost fell out thechair you know um tears came out

(53:58):
of nowhere and I had to reallyhold my balance and didn't want
to leave and she said you canleave now Mr.
Prime and I said no no no youain't just gonna tell me that
tell me to walk out walk out ofhere now you got to explain to
me like are you sure is this areyou sick I'm I is it me you know
you want to be sure that it'syou and I'm like oh my god I'm

(54:24):
thinking in my mind okay if thisis really me I'm not gonna tell
nobody when I get back to theblock everybody gonna ask me yo
why they call you out the gymwhat's that about because you
know they call you out the gymand you gotta go somewhere guys
might think you're snitching whois he snitching for who is he
going to talk to he's snitchingwho he what they what they call
him for you know so I'm like inmy mind I'm saying what the hell

(54:49):
am I gonna I'm not tellingnobody that shit I'm giving me I
got executive clemency and I'mgiving me a walk out the door in
a couple months after having alife sentence and everybody else
around me got life sentences umyou know I'm gonna keep that
close to my chest you know maybedown the line I might tell a
person you know back to the Igot and I said officer I need to

(55:13):
use the phone in the gym so hesaid go go go ahead and I went
back down and got on the phoneand called my sister and told
her whatever you do don't tellmommy and why did I do that?
That's like impossible rightthat's that's impossible not to
tell my mother that yeah so manI went back to the cell man and

(55:36):
I um I just sat there and guyslike yo what happened man I said
nah it was like a legal call mylawyer called up they needed me
you know I had a legal call Iforgot I had a legal call
scheduled and I had to go upthere and talk to my lawyer on
the phone man and I sat in thatcell didn't go out for the rest
of the day and it was almostlike the cell was spinning and I

(56:03):
sat there and I cried then Iprayed cried some more prayed
some more thank God some morebut I'm nervous because I'm
saying are they gonna come backto the cell and say that was a
mistake Mr.
Bryan we didn't mean to tell youthat.
Right that night I got legalmail that had a seal on it had

(56:23):
the governor's seal on ittelling me that I was granted
executive clemency and I wouldbe going to the earliest parole
board um that was like thegreatest feeling in the world
the second greatest feeling nextto actually walking out the door

(56:45):
four months when it was realthat was like man when it was
real how long was that fourmonths for you that was when it
was real man you know uh shitthat was the longest the longest
four months of my life man thatwas the longest four months of
my life real long really theyeah the longest time was the

(57:10):
last seven days oh man I couldnot imagine the last seven days
because you're not sleepingyou're not sleeping and you're
thinking about what am I gonnado what's gonna be my first meal
I already know you know whatI've been yearning for um does
anybody in the jail know myfamily they don't find out till

(57:35):
when I walk to that parole boardmonths later and they're like
they called you for the board Isaid that's what they called me
for.
And you know it's when you go tothe parole board in New York
State I don't know if it's youhave to in order to even be
considered to be released youhave to admit guilt and admit

(57:59):
remorse.
So you know my lawyer was alittle nervous because he was
like you know you always saidthat you would never admit guilt
for something that you didn'tdo.
And I said and that still standsand he said well what you gonna
say when you go in there I saidI'm gonna tell them I'm gonna
speak my truth um and let themknow that I'm prepared to die
before I lie on myself and saythat I murdered someone I'm

(58:23):
prepared to die in prison.
And verbatim is what I told thepro boy they peppered me with
question after question afterquestion.
The final question was from afemale Miss Commissioner Samuels
I'll never forget it she saidwell I went through your file
and you've actually been sayingthis since you've been arrested

(58:47):
the earliest time of your caseshe said well now after all
these years that you're finallygetting an opportunity to be
released how does that make youfeel all this time you've been
crying out and finally now theywant to give you a chance to go
home and I got the senseinstantly and I told my girl

(59:10):
this a while ago instantly I gotthe sense that she wanted to see
if I was bitter did I tell youthat she wanted to see if I was
bitter you hear me and so I saidwell um you know it's been a
long journey it's been a hardjourney I lost my father in 2017

(59:30):
I had to go to his go see hisbody with chains around my waist
chains around my ankles chainsaround my wrist um I said I
still got my mother I said butyou know um I I managed to not
serve time but to have timeserve me and so therefore I'm
not bitter I'm better I'm betterthan I was and that was the

(59:53):
final answer and she looked atme and she said thank you good
luck Mr.
Bryan Damn and that was it dayslater I got the paper in the
mail saying you will be you havebeen granted release you're
going home man all whilemaintaining your innocence all

(01:00:15):
while maintaining innocenceanybody anybody in um that's
been incarcerated in New Yorkand probably in any state will
tell you if you don't go inthere and say I'm sorry for what
I've done I admit guilt I admitremorse in fact we just watched
a documentary called Beyond theBars documentary we just did the

(01:00:38):
screening on it on Saturday andguys in that documentary I know
them all from Sing Sing which isone of the uh notorious maximum
security prisons in New YorkState one of the oldest it's
about 200 years old and the guysin there were going to the
parole board expressing remorsesaying they're sorry and they

(01:01:01):
were hit with two years they goback again they hit with another
two years over and over againand they're admitting remorse
they're doing what's required ofthem I didn't admit remorse or
admit any guilt and I made it soI think that for me it was a

(01:01:24):
blessing from God but also thatI think the governor got a sense
that you know my prosecutorwounded up going to prison you
know I I had I had I had aformer and you can look him up
former Queen's prosecutor JohnScarper S-C-A-R-P-A.
John Skopper is known formisconduct so he was pushed out

(01:01:47):
the DA's office and became adefense attorney but he
continued in his misconduct andhe was arrested and sentenced to
30 months by the feds for tryingto bribe witnesses to say what
he wanted them to say.
And this is the guy that got me37 and a half to life damn so
that's the part of the systemthat's broken in that

(01:02:10):
prosecutors see how easy youpull it up in that prosecutors
actually have immunity so aprosecutor can lock up you know
uh uh uh two cops one donut andBruce Bryan and lock us up and
say we were conspiring on a livestream to commit crime and lock

(01:02:35):
us up charge us and convict usand two years from now they say
man that that prosecutor lied heset them guys up guess what we
get released but nothing happensto him nothing happens to him
and you know it happens on thein the prosecutorial level and
it happens with bad Cops.
Yeah.

(01:02:56):
Right?
When you look at, I don't knowif you're familiar, but there's
one cop.
Just one example I like to giveyou.
And there are many.
But the one example I like togive you is Lewis Scarcella.
Are you familiar with that name?
You are?

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:14):
Yeah, I'm trying to remember.

SPEAKER_09 (01:03:16):
Lewis Scarsella is one of the top homicide
detectives in Brooklyn.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:21):
Yeah, didn't he have like 27 convictions that they
think were?

SPEAKER_09 (01:03:26):
He already 27 convictions were already
overturned.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:30):
Yeah, that's what it was.
27 were overturned, but he's gota slew more.

SPEAKER_09 (01:03:34):
About 350 he was responsible for.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:37):
Was Derek Hamilton one of his cases?

SPEAKER_09 (01:03:40):
Derek Hamilton absolutely was one of his cases.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:43):
Yes, that's why I know who he is.
I I interviewed Derek.

SPEAKER_09 (01:03:46):
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:47):
Yep.

SPEAKER_09 (01:03:49):
Yes.
And it's amazing because oneofficer single-handedly sent us
back into slavery.
He was responsible for over 400years of wrongful incarceration.
One cop.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:03):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 (01:04:04):
Not two, one.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:06):
So in your case, was it was it corrupt police?
Was it corrupt prosecution?
Was it what was it that wheredid we start fucking up so we
can start fixing it?

SPEAKER_09 (01:04:19):
I had I had the you know, I had the whole trifecta.
Right?
Steven Farinello from the 103rdprecinct.
Shell cases disappeared from thecrime scene, number one.
But then I had an attorney who,you know, who absolutely did

(01:04:42):
nothing to defend me.
I had a I had a uh a publicdefender, Reginald Town, who did
absolutely nothing.
And it's why I make it mybusiness to say his name, right,
when I'm interviewed, because ofthe horrific job that he did in
representing me, and knowingthat he was seeing psychiatrists

(01:05:04):
while he was representing me,right?
He was seeing uh uh apsychiatrist here in Manhattan,
Dr.
Henry McCurtis, while he wasrepresenting me.
And then I had John Scarpa asthe DA.

SPEAKER_07 (01:05:18):
Wow.

SPEAKER_09 (01:05:19):
And John Scarpa, he was he's responsible for people
versus Nathan May, thatconviction was overturned.
People versus Gary Steadman,that conviction was overturned,
for prosecutorial misconduct andfor withholding Brady material,
which is exculpatory evidence,right?
Or in some cases, he gives asecret deal to someone who may

(01:05:44):
be a substance abuse user inexchange for their testimony
against me, which is verycommon.
It's common practice for JohnScott.
So I mean, when you talk aboutqualified immunity for a
prosecutor and then the abilityto have so much power, right?
Think of it like this a publicdefender may get$50,$75 an hour.

(01:06:11):
A prosecutor essentially hasmore power than the judge.
They have the they represent thepeople.

SPEAKER_05 (01:06:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 (01:06:21):
Right?
They have support from thepeople and can almost do and say
almost anything.
So if prosecutors were heldaccountable for deliberate
misconduct, I think it wouldmake it.

SPEAKER_07 (01:06:34):
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_09 (01:06:35):
Right?
Do you think John Scarper everthought that he would get
caught?
Right?
You think that was the firsttime he did it when he when he
got 30 months?
Absolutely not.
Do you know how many lawsuits hehas against him right now?
At least 10.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:51):
And I bet I bet the justification in his own head
was they're criminals.
So it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_09 (01:06:59):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And that's the same way LouisCostello felt.
Oh, they're criminals, they'rein the streets anyway.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:05):
Which is fucked up.
Because when the streets raiseyou, it is.
That I mean, I I've I've talkedto I I know a million people
like that where they didn't havethe best guy.
Okay, so let me ask you this,Brian, uh, Bruce.
Um, looking back in your 12, 13,14 years old, what would have

(01:07:26):
helped you stay out of streetlife?

SPEAKER_09 (01:07:32):
I think for me, uh understanding, beginning to
understand poverty and alsoseeing the influences that were
around us at the time in Queensfrom the streets had a huge
impact, right?
Um, and again, I I you know Ireally believe that, you know,

(01:07:53):
if you get caught for sellingmarijuana, then guess what?
Like they say, marijuana's agateway drug.
That's like a gateway for thesystem to say, okay, we can we
can snatch him up and throw himaway because he's involved.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:09):
That's a that's a smart perspective.
Yeah, it's not a gateway drugfree, it's a gateway to get put
in the system.

SPEAKER_09 (01:08:17):
It's a gateway to get put in.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:19):
Marijuana's been a the catalyst that ruined so many
lives, an uncountable amount oflives.
Yeah.
Just because it's a symbol ofrest and it's a way to go after
people.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:28):
Yeah.
When when we all know that whatI'm drinking right here is
probably the uh single-handedlythe most biggest reason for
people to do some demonic shit.
Not weed.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:40):
Yeah.
And the the marijuana rest is sodisproportionate in certain
communities, and it's it's yourpoint exactly.
I agree wholeheartedly.

SPEAKER_05 (01:08:50):
Yep.
Yep.

SPEAKER_09 (01:08:51):
Um, but I also think that as a as a young person, um
you know, I got I got sixsiblings.
At the time I had five siblings.
I think for me, I knew I knewbetter than the streets because
I had my mother and my fatherthere.
Right?

(01:09:11):
So I watched my mother andfather go to work.
I never watched them drink, Inever watched them smoke, they
never did any of that.
Um so there's a level ofresponsibility that I take, even
as a teenager, for making badchoices as well.
And and being in and allowingmyself to be influenced by the
streets.
When I knew, but I when I saw,but I had a better example in

(01:09:33):
front of me.
So I don't absolve myself of theresponsibility that I take in
the poor choices that I made.
Um But I I don't think that thatmakes it okay to be arrested and
wrongfully charged.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:47):
Never, never.
Not not at all.
Whatever, whatever things youdid, you paid for, and then some
a lot.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:56):
Yeah.
Bruce, but when you were, I wasI was gonna ask you a question.
When you were young coming up,what was your perception of the
police in your neighborhood?

SPEAKER_09 (01:10:08):
Well, first, when I was in the Low East Side, I
didn't really have a badrelationship with cops.
I remember seeing cops six,seven, eight years old, um, you
know, going, my mother taking meto the bank, because my our
neighborhood was drug infested.
We lived on the east side, lowereast side Manhattan, East 10th
Street, um, in the 70s.

(01:10:31):
But you saw the same cops inthose neighborhoods that you saw
them every day.
You saw them every day, so theykind of under, they kind of knew
who you were.
You know, they knew my father,what he my father bought um a
white Lincoln Continental in the70s, and and and some new cops
thought he was a pimp, right?

(01:10:51):
And cops from the neighborhoodthat knew he wasn't out, but
that he was a hard-working manwould kind of be like, oh no,
that's that's such and such.
Right?
So I think having thatrelationship, or having that
understanding and knowing whoeach other's uh families were.
Now you live in the innercities, they bring officers from

(01:11:13):
way out in Long Island to policethe inner cities.
So there's no sense of communitythere.
Like we they don't know eachother, right?
They don't they've never seeneach other before.
Right?
It's it's like you take a um youtake a uh uh a rookie cop that

(01:11:34):
comes from the suburbs and youput him in some of the worst
housing projects in New YorkCity to police.
That's a recipe for disaster.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:43):
Oh my gosh, heck yeah, I've been screaming at for
a lot for years.

SPEAKER_09 (01:11:47):
Yeah, it's a recipe for disaster.
One or two things is gonnahappen.
One is he's gonna have, he'sgonna create a bad situation
where he responds impulsivelyout of fear, right?
Because he's not used to thisenvironment.
Or the community may look at himand just, you know, just

(01:12:08):
completely shun him because he'sno no one knows him.
The one thing that builds trustis some level of consistency.
So if you see the same personconsistency consistently and you
develop some type ofrelationship, even if it's a
head nod, you know, if therehave been offices where you see
in the community all the time,it's at least a head nod, and
you begin to speak because Ialways see you here.

(01:12:30):
Right?
But if you bring a guy from LongIsland to police uh 40 projects,
the uh Queensbridge HousingProjects, one of the biggest
housing projects in New YorkCity, um, you know, there's
something bad that's bound tohappen, right?

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:47):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 (01:12:49):
Because you can't expect him to just understand
and know his environment, anenvironment that he's that he's
never been in.
And you can't expect the peoplein that environment to have a
relationship with him, or toeven want to confide in him and
say, yo, look, man, you know,this is going on, man.
We're trying to clean up thecommunity.
You know, we let's worktogether.

(01:13:10):
They don't know him, they'venever seen him before.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:14):
Yeah.
What was your experience likewith the corrections officers
during your entire, was it 29years?

SPEAKER_09 (01:13:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:21):
So in 29 years, was it would you say that 10%
corruption, no corruption, theytreated you fair the whole time?
Like, what was your impressionof the correction system?

SPEAKER_09 (01:13:35):
Well, the correction offices here in New York State,
you know, um both black andwhite.
Um I mean, corrupt all the way.
Corrupt on so many levels.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:50):
I mean, from speak your truth, brother.
This is where we need to hearit.

SPEAKER_09 (01:13:54):
From the abuse, from the abuse.
I mean, they just killed RobertBrooks in a medium, right?
You saw the video on RobertBrooks.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:03):
That was horrible.

SPEAKER_09 (01:14:05):
Yeah, right.
And that's that's every day,man.
I was in Clinton, Dana Mora,where guys get their ass whipped
like that two, three times aday.
So I've been jumped on by theCEOs, but it before I even got
upstate, I was jumped on by theCEOs on Rikers Island.
Right?
So they're really um, they'rereally hands-on.

(01:14:28):
They're really hands-on.
It's a it's a deep adversarialrelationship, um, and corruption
on on so many levels.
It's like, it's like, you know,they they have the biggest gang.
And it's always us against them,right?
And that's the mentality thatthe officers come to work with.

(01:14:49):
I know some officers that simplycome to work, put on black
gloves, and they're there tokick somebody's ass every single
day.
They're consistent, they'reconsistent assholes, a lot of
them.
Then you have one or two thatsay, look, man, I'm just here to
do my job, man.
Don't stab nobody, don't let mesee you doing nothing you ain't

(01:15:12):
supposed to do, and we're gonnahave an easy day.
I tell you what, everybody thatcontacts me from prison, since
the National Guards have beenall across New York State as a
result of Robert Book's death,all say the same thing.
Man, the National Guards treatus way better than the
correction officers.

(01:15:33):
These are 19, 20-year-old kids.
They don't treat us like theofficers do.
Everybody that called me fromprison has said that over and
over and over again.
There's a campaign right nowthat's spearheaded by Derek
Hamilton, um, called the EPVcampaign, in prison violence

(01:15:56):
campaign, as a result, which wasdeveloped as a result of Robert
Brooks and Mohammed Natwe, whowas also killed in the prison
across the street from Marcy.
Now, I don't know if you knowthis, but the Muslim chaplain
was alleged to have killedhimself in that same prison last
week.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:15):
I didn't.

SPEAKER_09 (01:16:16):
In the same prison Marcy, where Robert Brooks was
killed, you it's been in everynewspaper, the Imam, the Muslim
chaplain, they they they claimedcame into the prison last Friday
with a gun on him and pulled outhis gun while he was in the
superintendent's office and blewhis own head off.

(01:16:40):
Imam Abdullah Um Habian.
Just they said just killedhimself.
He had five kids.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:48):
Wow.

SPEAKER_09 (01:16:49):
So right now in some prisons, you may have 20
correction officers that work anight shift when it should be
180.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:59):
Holy shit.

SPEAKER_09 (01:17:00):
Because no, yeah, they had they had the wildcat
strike.
The governor fired 2,000 of themfor uh for striking illegally.
Some in a prison called Collins,they lied.
You can look that up too.
They fabricated and said, well,the prisoners took the prisoners
took over the prison.
The commissioner found that thethe correction officers staged

(01:17:23):
that whole hostage situation.
And this was on the news.
They staged the entire thing.
They walked off the job.
When Albany and the commissionerand them went in there, they
said, We ain't had a correctionofficer in here all day, man.
They just left us in here.
We don't know how we're gonnaeat.
We don't know how we're gonna goto the mess hall to eat and go
to program, get our medication,which has been one of the

(01:17:47):
biggest consequences of uh ofthe shutdown, was the national
didn't know how to operate themedical system.
So guys that needed medication,whether it was diabetic
medication or something else.
Um and you know, guys, some someguys had diabetic attacks, some
guys died, some guys committedsuicide because the National

(01:18:10):
Guards didn't do their rounds.
So they were nicer to the menand women inside, but they don't
know how to operate a prisonbecause they've never been
there.
And the National Guards are 18,19, 20-year-old kids.
And they're inside of Sing Singin different prisons right now
as we speak.

(01:18:31):
No one is taking the correctionofficer test.
No one wants to be correctionofficers as a result of Robert
Brooks exposing what's beengoing on for decades.
Prison violence has been goingon for decades.

SPEAKER_05 (01:18:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 (01:18:47):
I got my ass kicked, I got my ass kicked several
times in prison.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:52):
For nothing.

SPEAKER_09 (01:18:53):
That is very, very common.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:54):
Is it like how does it how does it even start?

SPEAKER_09 (01:18:57):
It starts when they pull you out the line and throw
you on the wall, then they don'tsee you, then everybody, no one
sees you in the prison again,and the officers write a
complaint and say, well, he tookhis hands off the wall, and we
thought we was, you know, we hadto use force.
Use of force had to beimplemented because he came off
the wall.
That's that's that's everymisbehavior report that where a

(01:19:18):
guy has a black eye or a brokenrib or an eye socket or he loses
the eye.
I know guys that have lost anentire eye.
Um look at, I tell you what,when you get a chance, you may
have heard of it, view theAlabama project, Alabama
Solution.
Have you heard about that?

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:35):
I have not.

SPEAKER_09 (01:19:43):
I went to a screening, um, and I had no idea
that Alabama may be the worstsystem in the country.
Um thousands of incarceratedpeople have been killed in there
by officers.
And one of the things that manypeople don't know is a lot of
them have had their organsmissing.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:04):
Oh shit.

unknown (01:20:06):
Man.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:06):
Yeah.
Holy fuck.
Okay.

SPEAKER_09 (01:20:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:11):
So you're you're confirming what so Alabama, if
you look up the Alabamasolution.

SPEAKER_09 (01:20:17):
Which is very, very deep.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:20):
So okay.
So I want to.

SPEAKER_09 (01:20:26):
What made the Alabama solution so deep, and
it's out now, so we can just wecan talk about it is it was
filmed on cell phone by peopleinside.
So they got all the in-depthstuff that was happening inside
of Alabama prisons.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:41):
Okay.

SPEAKER_09 (01:20:42):
So you get a chance, please do that.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:44):
Okay.

SPEAKER_09 (01:20:45):
And you'll see probably the worst system in the
country.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:48):
For sure.
Okay.
Yeah, we'll we'll get into that.
Um, one of the things I I one,you're definitely confirming
some suspicions that I've hadfor a while.
Because I find it very ironicthat as big of a push for body
cams that they had for police,and and now it most cops that I
know they feel naked withouttheir body cam.

(01:21:10):
Um you never see correctionsofficers raising their hands for
that, wanting that.
Never hear of any of them havingthat.
Um, there's very few camerasthat ever seem to be um
available when you need it forinside the prison system.
And to me, I'm not saying thatyou're being shady, but it just
shows that there's you should bewanting to put that out there.

(01:21:34):
And they're not doing that.
And I want to give a shout outto Harrison for 20 memberships.

SPEAKER_09 (01:21:41):
I think they forgot their body cameras on when they
uh killed and beat Robert Brooksto death.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:49):
Yeah, that's what got them up.
They're not used to having them.

SPEAKER_09 (01:21:52):
They're not used to having them.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:54):
Yep.
And the office I agree, and Ithink the only time they use
them is when they have somethingspecial like that.
When they have to go to thehospital and there's other
people around.

SPEAKER_07 (01:22:03):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:22:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:05):
Yeah, Bruce, being that this is it's just such a
mess, and what you're describingis so heartbreaking.
I'm I'm I want to cry hearinghearing that uh what you had to
go through.
What what if you had one, if youwere able to be God for a
minute, what would be your topsolution?
Where will we start?

SPEAKER_09 (01:22:24):
That's that's a very good question, right?
That's a very, very goodquestion.
How do we reimagine a societywhere prisons are communities
where people actually, you know,where we where rehabilitation

(01:22:45):
means something, right?
Um and even I'll even go as faras reimagining a society where
we don't have prisons, but wealso have a adequate mental
health system and a system thatholds people accountable in more
humane ways.
Because the reality is thisclose to 50% of the people

(01:23:08):
incarcerated in the UnitedStates are living with dyslexia.
So many of them have learningdisabilities, which is a crime
generative factor, right?
Um, the vast majority of peoplethat commit crimes come from
impoverished neighborhoods.
Poverty is a crime-generativefactor.
Poverty is a level of violence,right?
When you don't know where yournext meal is coming from, when

(01:23:30):
you don't have full shelter orclothing.
That's violent.
That's psychologically,psychological violence, right?
Um right now across the country,maybe 40 to 50 percent of the of
the prison population are livingwith mental health issues,
right?
So do people with mental healthissues need prison or do they

(01:23:51):
need treatment?
I think that they needtreatment.
I think they need seriousmedical attention, right?
Yeah, to deal with their mentalhealth.
But also, I think therapy forincarcerated people is just as
important.
It's one thing that helped me uhwhen I walked out is um being

(01:24:11):
open and being receptive tohaving therapy, understanding
that 29 years in prison in anabnormal environment um can have
uh, you know, a traumatictraumatic experience.
And how do we get through thatwith some level of assistance is
to get a good therapist andsomebody to talk to.

SPEAKER_04 (01:24:35):
Yeah, yeah, I can only imagine.
It's it's uh you know, I I don'twant to compare it to law
enforcement, but law enforcementofficers they see a lot of
traumas throughout theircareers.
Absolutely.
Now go into an environment whereuh apparently, especially with
your experience, you don't justhave to watch your ass from some
of the inmates that are inthere, you gotta watch your ass
from the people who are supposedto be in there protecting you.

SPEAKER_09 (01:24:56):
Yeah, I mean, it's not by accident that probably
law enforcement, whether it'sthe police officers and the
corrections, rates of suicide.

SPEAKER_04 (01:25:05):
Yeah.
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_09 (01:25:08):
Because of the level of stress.

SPEAKER_04 (01:25:12):
Yeah, and in you know, in prison, they take they
take just about everything awayfrom you that can even let you
commit suicide.
So the the rates would probablybe higher from the traumas that
they have to deal with inprison.
Yeah, so man.
Um so now with your with yourdistrict attorney or your

(01:25:35):
prosecutor being corrupt, yourum the corrections officers that
you had to deal with beingcorrupt, I I am curious how you
can still have such anoptimistic mindset with giving
your plight.
And I'm not gonna say thatyou're you're putting us out on

(01:25:55):
a pedestal pedestal by any way,but you still even you are still
willing to admit, despite what'shappened to you, that there's
good cops.
There seems to be some goodcorrections officers out there.
Like you're able to distinguishthat.
And I know people that havenever even really had an
encounter with police in theirlife, and they fucking hate

(01:26:17):
cops.
So uh it's insane.

SPEAKER_09 (01:26:22):
I think that some people have had bad experiences
with uh correction officers.
My friend just told the guy,look, man, um, you know, a
correction officer is not a badjob.
You just had a bad experiencewith corrections, right?
Yeah, and for those who haven'thad an experience with them, I

(01:26:44):
think it's important for peopleto get involved because you can
only make change by being on theinside.
Like you got you can't sit back,you know, it's easy to be an
armchair revolutionary, right?
You sit behind, sit behind achair, you can't do Monday
morning quarterback everything.
But when you're in it, that'ssomething totally different,

(01:27:05):
right?
A lot of these guys have neverbeen in it.
It ain't easy to do any of thatstuff.
It's not easy to wake up everymorning and have to carry a
pistol, not knowing whether yourlife is gonna go up to the
stairs, not knowing whether yourlife is gonna be just kind of
looking at the off button.

SPEAKER_04 (01:27:22):
This has been the best podcast we've ever had
because of the all the changesin scenery.
Is that mom?
No, this is pop.

SPEAKER_08 (01:27:34):
This is this is the old camera.

SPEAKER_04 (01:27:36):
Yes, the light, the lights blocking.
I couldn't tell if it was a guyor a girl.
Sorry about that.

SPEAKER_08 (01:27:40):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm not gonna let you go.

SPEAKER_04 (01:27:47):
I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy.
How wonderful is this?
This is such great stuff.
I love the love, brother.
Yes, this is uh we try we try todespite all the negativity
around this career field, we tryto show the good stuff.

(01:28:10):
And Pops can take his time.
You're being awfully quiet,Bany.

SPEAKER_00 (01:28:15):
I'm taking this all in.
I'm I'm uh I'm taking this allin, man.
That's uh this is absolutely oneof the most amazing, horrific
stories at the same time I'veever heard.

SPEAKER_04 (01:28:26):
I know.
I and you guys know me.
I I tend to hone in onoptimistic optimism things and
his attitude towards everythingso far is just like I love it.
I love I love where his heart isso far in all of this.
You guys wonder where my myunrealistic optimism comes from.

(01:28:50):
He's worse than me.
Would you agree, Matt?
He's worse than me.

SPEAKER_03 (01:28:54):
Oh my gosh, this guy for Bruce, Bruce can uh he can
inspire the masses, man, withthis story is just so amazing.

SPEAKER_00 (01:29:02):
You know, I'm I know this is pie in the sky, but I
would love for Bruce to be ableto sit in front of the Supreme
Court, and the Supreme Courtgives him 20 minutes on what
needs to be changed, not just inthe New York justice system, but
across the entire country.
And for the Supreme Court toactually listen to it, look into
it, and make said changes, thatwould be that would be a stark.

SPEAKER_04 (01:29:25):
I think with his justice defense idea, that's one
way to get started.
Inmates and in prison guardsworking together to help fight
their cases and educate.
Like, I never heard of such athing.
But it it when you hear it,you're like, oh duh.
That makes sense.
Why have we not done that?

(01:29:48):
I hope nobody trips and fallsbecause it looks dark.
I can't see anything.

unknown (01:29:56):
Three, four times, right?

SPEAKER_04 (01:29:58):
Oh man, this is crazy.
Crazy stuff.

SPEAKER_00 (01:30:01):
I would have found I would have found every crack and
crevice and curb and been dab toget.

SPEAKER_04 (01:30:08):
Freeman Keyes said, um, this is gold.
I appreciate Bruce showing uptonight.
Even though he was obviouslybusy, and thank you guys for
covering this.
Bruce is one of many.
Yeah.
Yep.
Yep, Mr.
Billfold said.

SPEAKER_09 (01:30:22):
I'm taking them up the stairs.
I'm coming right now.

SPEAKER_04 (01:30:23):
No worries, brother.
You take your time.
We're going to the commentsection now.
They're loving this.

SPEAKER_09 (01:30:28):
Thank you, man.

SPEAKER_04 (01:30:30):
Yeah.
Bro, this is what it's allabout.
Family.
Love.
I love it.
Um, Mr.
Billfold said, Bruce's attitudeis because his freedom being
stolen, not in spite of it.
Um, if I had corrupt cops andprosecution steal over half my
life, I would treat any sunshineas a win.
It's a self-preservation.

(01:30:52):
Fair assessment.
Yeah, and I but I'm curious.
I mean, he seems like he'salways kind of been an
optimistic guy.
You know, and and Matt, I I knowyou you're around a lot of kids
that are probably close to theposition that he's been in when
he first started.

(01:31:13):
So, you know, doing doing yournonprofit um shit, Bruce might
be good to get involved.

SPEAKER_03 (01:31:21):
Oh he would he would uh he definitely keep your
attention.

SPEAKER_04 (01:31:25):
Yeah.
Because he he went through it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:31:29):
Yep.

SPEAKER_04 (01:31:29):
Don't be the statistic like he had to end up
being.
You know, try to get through tosome of these kids before it's
too late.
It only only takes one it onlytakes one corrupt prosecutor to
really screw you over.

SPEAKER_03 (01:31:44):
Yeah, gee, that's such a that's that that pisses
me off.

SPEAKER_04 (01:31:47):
Yeah.
Excuse me.
Yeah, I feel bad.
I want to know how many.
Uh oh shit, I my computer isgoing crazy.
There it goes.
Freeman goes, yes, but how is heoptimistic?
It amazes me.

(01:32:09):
Yeah, that's fair.
Yeah.
Who are you winking at?
I see you winking over there.
You gotta tell mama to go tobed.

SPEAKER_03 (01:32:21):
I got caught, babe.

SPEAKER_04 (01:32:24):
Hi, Daniel.
They said hi.
Hi.
Come off camera.
She can come on camera.

SPEAKER_02 (01:32:31):
No, I'm ready for bed.

SPEAKER_04 (01:32:33):
Oh, that's okay.
I've seen Matt before bed.
Yeah, yes.
Oh, we lost him.
Oh, I think he uh what happened?

SPEAKER_00 (01:32:44):
He he may have just hit his camera button.
Maybe he may have just hit thecamera button slightly.

SPEAKER_04 (01:32:49):
Maybe.

SPEAKER_00 (01:32:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:32:51):
There it goes.
Oh, now we got him back.
Get Matt's ugly.
Mug off of there.
Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:32:56):
My sweaty mug.
Are you a Fox fan?

SPEAKER_04 (01:32:59):
Bruce probably saw you and he's like, Oh, is this
another inmate?

SPEAKER_03 (01:33:03):
Don't start.
Don't start.
We got company.

SPEAKER_04 (01:33:08):
Oh.
Yeah, I think I think Brucewould dig you, Matt.
I think he would uh love to comeout and I bet he, I'm not gonna
put words in his mouth, but Ithink he would let me put it
this way.
I think it'd be very beneficialif we could get Bruce to uh link
up with your people for yournonprofit.

SPEAKER_03 (01:33:25):
Oh, they would they would they would love it.
Yeah, we would love it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:33:28):
Yeah, we'll when when he gets uh done going up a
million steps or whatever he'sdoing, we'll we'll discuss it
with him.
Oh shit, the police coming downthe street.
Run Bruce, not again.

(01:33:55):
The knight said that is a signof a strong mind.
It would be far easier to circleinto hate.
Whatever he uses as hismotivation is likely what guides
him, whether that be familyfaith or desire things to
improve.
Yeah, I think that's uhabsolutely spot on.
I think it's awesome.
I love it because I I have dayswhere I get down and I'm not

(01:34:17):
nearly as optimistic as Inormally am.
And uh somehow I'm yeah, I'musually able to pull myself out
of a funk either with a nap,some food, or just just forcing
myself to realize I'm not in agood place and start thinking
optimistically.

SPEAKER_00 (01:34:36):
You know, Eric, I wish I could take half of
Bruce's motivation for some ofthese law enforcement officers
out there that may be at sevenor ten years and they hit this
brick wall of everything'swrong, everything's this,
everything is that, and you lookat this man that has overcome
that many years and the way helooks at life.

(01:34:57):
I mean, not just lawenforcement, but just people in
general, of how he is absolutelylooking at life now on what's
been done to him and how he isserving others in life.
And that's that's that's the bigmoral of this story is how how
look at what Bruce is doing nowwith his life after what he's
gone through.
Why can't others do the same?

(01:35:18):
You know, he's gone.
I mean, I can't imagine.
And I know the only one, andit's I can't imagine this.

SPEAKER_04 (01:35:24):
I'm curious how many people he helped along the way
while he was still in.
Look at the people he's helpingwhile he's out.
Look at the he was alreadyinvolved in some other
nonprofits of people helping outother prisoners and stuff going
on.
Um, you know, in the the Uganda,the the justice defender thing,
um, all of these things.
The dude's been dedicated.

(01:35:45):
It's a life of service, youknow.
What what we hope other cops andthe rest of us in the criminal
justice system, reason why wegot into it.
We want to help people, yeah.
Um you know, and he was therehelping people when he needed
help.

SPEAKER_00 (01:36:01):
I just hope for the rest of his life he doesn't have
to pay for a damn thing.

SPEAKER_04 (01:36:05):
Yeah.
Mr.
Belfold, I'm petty andvindictive.
I believe that.
I believe that, sir.
Uh somebody said, Oh, MarinesBlood said, want to encourage
Eric and banning more?
Donate here.
Thanks, guys.
Yeah, if you guys decide to umdo a little more than the likes,

(01:36:27):
follows, and subscribes or shareus, like, yeah, the buy me a
coffee thing.
It's a it's a good way to helpkeep doing what we're doing.
Um, my wife just got on me todayfor all of the money coming out
for what we have going on.
Uh, she's like, You gotta she'slike, you gotta turn off some of
these subscriptions.

(01:36:47):
She goes, Why are you paying forYouTube premium?
She doesn't know why we'repaying for premium.
It's not for me.
It's not for me, guys.

SPEAKER_00 (01:37:00):
Oh, I think uh I think Bruce put his camera to a
side so he could take care ofbusiness, and I appreciate and
applaud that.

SPEAKER_04 (01:37:08):
Yeah, whatever he's gotta do.
Yeah, just making sure that he'sactually still connected and
we're just not watchingdarkness.
But I think that would go awayif he was uh not on there.
But um he said tax write-off.
Love it.

SPEAKER_09 (01:37:27):
I'm back, brothers.

SPEAKER_04 (01:37:28):
Well, Bruce is back, baby.
Here we go.

SPEAKER_09 (01:37:31):
I had to get the old time upstairs, man.

SPEAKER_04 (01:37:34):
Hey, man, you do your thing, brother.
We're bro, this has been one ofthe everybody in the comments
said the same shit.
One of the funnest, bestpodcasts we've done.
It's been all over the place.

SPEAKER_00 (01:37:46):
And and I'm I'm gonna say something, Bruce.
I look at life every day aspositive as I can, and I wish I
had half the heart you do.
So kudos to you, man.
I mean, this small time amountof time that we've had with you
makes me look at life so muchbetter and all the good things
that we have.
And and thank you, thank you forbeing a part of what we're

(01:38:08):
doing.
I love that our viewers aregetting to hear your story.
So thank you for taking the timefor us.

SPEAKER_09 (01:38:12):
Thank you so much, man.
That means so much to me justbeing able to be here and share
with you guys, man.
And and I think that we we, youknow, we're an example.
You said you had Derek goingthere as well, Derek Hamilton.
But it's an example of how wecan we can come together, man.
We can sit down and have realconversations.
And we may not agree oneverything, but we know that

(01:38:34):
there's, you know, we canrecognize that our humanity is
attached, and there's nothing wecan do about that.
We're connected, right?
And we can be an example of whatit means to be better and to do
better and to do and to getalong and have real
conversations, man.

SPEAKER_04 (01:38:50):
Yeah, and the thing that I love is you are so much
ammunition and credibilitybecause you're not bitter and
angry, because you're sooptimistic, you're so
level-headed about owning up,like, no, there's still some
good, but there's problems, andthe I faced them personally, and

(01:39:11):
then you got us three on herewho are we're the opposite side
where we're saying, Look, theother cops aren't gonna say
this, but we are.
There's problems, and we need towe need to own it for one.
That's the first step.
Fucking own it, and we're owningit.
We know there's problems.
That's why we wanted you on.

(01:39:31):
It does me no good.
I don't sit in a gym.
And I commend you guys.

SPEAKER_09 (01:39:35):
I I don't sit I commend you guys, man.
I appreciate it for wanting tomake a difference.
I really commend you, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:39:42):
Yeah, and and I can't sit in a prison, I can't
go to prisons, you know, and notas a cop.
It's one of those things.
I need somebody's perspectivethat's not going to be biased.
And it's gonna be harder for meto get somebody that was in that
was convicted of an actual crimeversus a guy that was innocent
and then had to do who got aswrong as wrong can be to come

(01:40:07):
out with that optimism, thatself-improvement, and then the
ability to say that look,there's there's some good in
here, guys, but no, there's alot of bad too, and you need to
do something about it.
So having all those factorstogether, brother, like that is
how we start getting some changeout there.
So we're we're trying to do likewhat you're doing, we're trying

(01:40:28):
to put the fight up, but fromthe other side.
So our forces combined, ourvoices, I think, will be heard.
That's the optimistic side.
I'm the rose-colored glasses guyon the cop side.

SPEAKER_09 (01:40:39):
So thank you, Matt.

SPEAKER_04 (01:40:41):
Yeah, thank you.
Not a problem.
Um, I do have a question, andI'm gonna ask it on behalf of
Matt.
Matt runs a nonprofit fortroubled youth at that age that
you were in in the in the youknow, just in the Chicago area.
Um, I think if they heard youand your experience and all of

(01:41:01):
that, Matt, you go.
I I'm ti I think you shouldspeak to his people.
I'm putting I'll put it thatway.
But Matt, you tell them you tellthem what it's all about.

SPEAKER_03 (01:41:08):
Oh, I mean, I I I run a couple nonprofits.
We just invite all the theyoung, fatherless gang members,
uh, disenchanted kids from mystreets.
I many of them I uh I make anarrest on us.
Hey, what do you do?
I'm gonna I'm gonna release you,but what do you do on Fridays?
Come and join my crew.
Um, so we we we take them, Itake them, we don't turn anyone

(01:41:29):
down.
Um, to come as you are, andwe're gonna form a brotherhood
and try to love love you.
It's centered around basketball,but we we mentor, we we feed
everybody, we we teach themabout uh the gospel, we teach
them about life, uh, we try toget them jobs.
So it's it's a really kind of doa lot for for the youth in our
city.
And um, your your voice wouldcarry some weight.

(01:41:50):
Oh my gosh, I can I can onlypicture you talking to some of
my kids because some of them areuh they're going they're going
down the wrong path.
And and uh we we have a lot ofvictories, but there's we we
have a lot of defeats too.
I'm always looking for anyanything to give motivation.
So I was just thinking, like,man, you you they would be in
awe of you.

SPEAKER_04 (01:42:07):
Yeah, so you can't tell.

SPEAKER_09 (01:42:09):
Let's figure it out.
I would love to talk to them.

SPEAKER_04 (01:42:12):
You you can't tell it, um, Bruce, but uh despite
Matt's appearance there, he hehas actually been convicted of a
crime and still been able to bea cop.
So yes, I have.
I have one on my record.
Yep.
So um Bruce, I before you know,you've been so kind to to be on

(01:42:34):
here as long as you have, and wereally appreciate that.
Um, we want to help fix thesystem.
I you're we want to help getyour story out there.
I I'm I've been sharing yourwebsite and all that stuff.
I actually have your websitehere.
Let me share that too.
So you can uh if anybody wantsto book you, I see that they can

(01:42:54):
uh jump on your website here.

SPEAKER_07 (01:42:57):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 (01:42:58):
Um so if you guys want to talk to Bruce, look at
that.
That's a gorgeous man rightthere.

SPEAKER_09 (01:43:03):
Thank you, brother.

SPEAKER_04 (01:43:07):
Um, but uh and and see more about his story.
I like that.
You got hoodies too?
Humanize my hoodie?
Yes, fight for justice.
I like that.
Um oh shit, look, he got theopen, the open shirt.
Got a little sex appeal going,ladies and gentlemen.

(01:43:29):
Um but uh Bruce, before I we letyou go, like I wanna how do we
close this to make the systembetter?
How do we how do we look at thiswith an open heart and an open
mind to to make to make itbetter for the police side and
for those that may be goingthrough the system?

SPEAKER_09 (01:43:50):
I think one of the things that people should do is
ask themselves what it is thatthey would want to see um if
they were on either side.
How would they want to betreated and how would they treat
others?
You know, let's start with that.
Let's take a good look atourselves, right?
Because each of us have talents,we have gifts, and we can

(01:44:11):
contribute in a meaningful way.
And we all want a safecommunity, we all want to thrive
in life, we want to be happy, wewant health, right?
And we want to live a decentlife, right?
We all really want the samethings.
We want to come, we want to livein a neighborhood where there's
no shootings, no killings.
We want our children to go toschool and be safe.

(01:44:31):
Right?
And I think it starts withconversations like the ones that
we're having now.

SPEAKER_05 (01:44:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 (01:44:35):
Right?
It don't hurt for you to go andsay, man, I want to have a real
conversation.
Um, yeah, I don't care if theguy's an officer or uh a
lieutenant or a correctionofficer.
Let's have some conversation.
Let's talk.
Let's talk about what it is thatwe have in common as opposed to
the things that we have that wethink are different.
Because we're really all one,man.

(01:44:56):
And humanity starts with each ofus recognizing that we're all a
part of this this this biguniverse, man.
This this this big family, youknow?

SPEAKER_04 (01:45:05):
Yeah.

unknown (01:45:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:45:07):
Amen to that.
100%, brother.
Beautiful.
I love it.
All right, Bruce.
Um, I'm gonna talk with theseknuckleheads here as we wrap up.
I'm gonna let you go do yourthing.
Um, thank you so much.
If you're in Texas or you'recoming to Texas, let me know.
Um I I would love to connectwith you.

SPEAKER_09 (01:45:26):
Um you can.
Uh, I don't know if you put upmy social media, Bruce.brian24.

SPEAKER_04 (01:45:33):
I did not, but I can, sir.
Bruce.brian.24.
Is that on Instagram?

SPEAKER_09 (01:45:38):
Yeah, it's Bruce.brian24.

SPEAKER_04 (01:45:41):
Oh, Bruce.brian24 on Instagram.
I am putting that up right now,sir.

SPEAKER_09 (01:45:47):
So people, I mean, I know some people like to reach
out that way.
Um, and if I can share a wordwith your with your young people
and your nonprofit brother, wecan figure it out.
And um, I would love to becausethat's what it is about pouring
into each other and sharing witheach other, man.

SPEAKER_04 (01:46:03):
Hell yeah.
Awesome.
Um, Bruce, I will uh I'll getoffline with you um later uh and
connect Matt with you, and we'lljust do like a group text and
all that stuff.

SPEAKER_09 (01:46:13):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 (01:46:13):
Get that.

SPEAKER_09 (01:46:14):
Thank you all so much, man.
Thank you for having me.
It was an honor, it was apleasure.
Thank you for your patience,too.
I appreciate you so much.
Oh, bro, I love it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:46:21):
That made the whole episode.
I loved it.
Phenomenal.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 (01:46:25):
The honor is all ours, man.
Thank you so much for coming onwith us.

SPEAKER_04 (01:46:29):
God bless you, brother.
Take it easy, all thank you somuch.
Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_09 (01:46:32):
Have a good night.
You too.

SPEAKER_04 (01:46:40):
Fellas.

SPEAKER_03 (01:46:41):
Fellas.

SPEAKER_04 (01:46:42):
That was worth the wait.
Yes, it was.
Yeah, he was uh he was awesome.
That was uh that was great.
Uh you know, I was like, I'm notgonna ask him back on, but he
had some shit going on,obviously.
So taking care of Pops, dude,that was great, absolutely

(01:47:03):
great.
Um audience, everybody in thecrowd, thank you for being
respectful to his time.
Um, it was very cool, very cool.
Um, had a good time.
I think in you're welcome, Matt,because I know you wouldn't have
asked.
Thank you, thank you.
I was like, bro, you get him onthe non.
We gotta help out.

SPEAKER_03 (01:47:21):
I'd like to do the talking, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:47:24):
Fucker.
No, that's awesome.
I'm glad we were able to do thattoo.
Um shit.
My my computer is glitching upon me.
Fucking mosquitoes, really.

SPEAKER_03 (01:47:38):
Oh my gosh, I wish it was warm enough for that.

SPEAKER_04 (01:47:41):
I know it's like uh what is it right now?
It is um 76.
Oh, I hate your guts.
You don't have to live up there,brother.

SPEAKER_00 (01:47:51):
I don't want to.
I think you reached what, 90today?

SPEAKER_04 (01:47:54):
Close to, yeah, at least.
Yeah, it was pretty damn close.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, people, people in theuh audience, somebody said it
was worth it.
You know, please come back.
Oh, yeah.
Please come back with updates,Bruce.
Um, definitely do that.
Freeman Keys, I thoroughlyenjoyed the discussion.
And and I'm sorry, guys, I knowsome of you guys were donating.
Um, I I believe the last onewas, I think it was Harrison.

(01:48:18):
Let me go back if I can.

SPEAKER_00 (01:48:20):
Umated 20.

SPEAKER_04 (01:48:22):
Yeah, Harrison.
Yeah, I I wanted to give properum due to the people that were
donating.
I just you know how it goes,guys.
I don't want to interrupt uh aguest while they're talking.
I'll stop what I'm saying tothank you guys, but um, I did
try to get Harrisons in therereal quick, but it we were rock
and rolling.

SPEAKER_00 (01:48:40):
So we appreciate that so much, but when you have
a guest like this on that's gonethrough, and I know everybody's
got their own personal story,but man, what you guys just
heard, and we just heard a teen.
You know, we a little bit ofthis.
I mean, we could probably havethis guy on every week for two
years, and we'd be more stories.

SPEAKER_04 (01:48:58):
Yeah, yeah.
I I I wanted to give anabbreviated story so we could
get to where it was corrupt at,where where the problems were
at, and all that stuff.
And so um that that's that'swhat the the correction stuff
really didn't surprise me.
Um, but that's from the horse'smouth.
I wanted to hear it from thehorse's mouth.

SPEAKER_03 (01:49:18):
Like to hear how dejected he was talking about
that.
That that was heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_04 (01:49:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, well, you're at yourmost vulnerable, and there's
nobody to turn to, nobody'sgonna listen to you.
That's the problem with with theonce you're once you're
convicted of something, you'refucked.
No one's listening, you're outof sight, out of mind.
No one gives a shit.

(01:49:44):
And that's why I think it'simportant.
That's why for my show, for thebalance of this show, I gotta
have those voices on here.
I gotta get, especially the onesthat would have been wronged
improperly.
You know, it's one thing if youyou know, like you'll you talk
to Aaron Dyson, one of the guysthat I had on the show.
Um, he did wrong, he admits it.
He's like, Yeah, I shot a dudewith a shotgun that killed my

(01:50:07):
cousin.
He goes, he's like, but the dudethat I shot and injured, he got
less time in prison than I gotfor kid, and he killed his
cousin, which is insane.
How do you get how does that guyget 10 years and you get 54
years?
And then the guy that you shotends up advocating for your

(01:50:29):
release.
Like that's crazy.
He did 24 years, Bruce did 29years, Derek Hamilton did 26
years.
So I will continue to have theseguys on here because it's one
thing to have Joe Rogan advocatefor you, which is great.
I love Joe.
That's the reason I started apodcast because of Joe Rogan.

(01:50:50):
But it's another thing to havesome dudes that do the job that
are on the side of handing out,getting that ball rolling for
you to go to prison.
They need to hear from us too.
I think that's the importantpart.
They gotta hear from us.
We gotta, we've gotta stand up,we've got to talk, we've got to
see this stuff, we've got tohelp prevent people from getting
sucked into the systemimproperly.

(01:51:12):
So, um now.

SPEAKER_03 (01:51:14):
How many bruises are out there?

SPEAKER_04 (01:51:15):
Yeah, how many bruises are out there?
If there's one, there's more.
Yep.
So, you know, and and and I thethe latest that I've heard about
improperly incarcerated peopleis somewhere in the window of
six to fifteen percent.
I don't know how accurate thatis.
I can't tell you where I sawthat study.

(01:51:37):
It was a while probably a coupleyears back.
I remember hearing about itthough, and I was like, man, is
that number right?
Six to fifteen percent.
I say if I say if you're I sayif you're one percent or more,
you're that's too high.
Yeah, 80%.
Yeah.
Now if you're if you're stayingunder a percent, okay, there's
there are probably some crazyshit that happens at all the

(01:52:00):
stars aligned, and you just werein the wrong place, wrong time,
holding the wrong gun.
I don't know, but yeah, mycousin Vinny's.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Yeah, so yeah, there's a lot ofpeople in the audience that
don't know what you're talkingabout.

SPEAKER_00 (01:52:15):
I've seen that movie ten times, man.

SPEAKER_04 (01:52:19):
For Marissa, yeah, yeah.
Um, looking at the comments.
Um something the LEOs to thinkabout.
Are you just feeding the meatgrinder?
Yeah.
Yep.
Um, Marine Blood said fromtonight, thank you, Brand R86,
for the five gifted subs andHarrison Brock for the 20.

(01:52:40):
Yep, I agree.
Thank you very much.
Um, Mr.
Bill Fold said there are tens ofthousands of Bruces out there.
Maybe I mean it's possible.

SPEAKER_03 (01:52:52):
I don't want any Bruces out there.

SPEAKER_04 (01:52:54):
Yeah, I don't want any.
One's too many.
One is too many, but what arethe odds out of all of them?
Let's say you line up a hundredof them that went through
Bruce's situation that haveBruce's attitude.

SPEAKER_03 (01:53:06):
Yeah, that's a rare thing.

SPEAKER_04 (01:53:08):
Yeah.
Not only did he hit the that's aquestion I should have asked
him.
When did he hit the groundrunning to self-improve?
How quickly?
Did it take a year?
Did it take three years beforethat mindset triggered?

SPEAKER_03 (01:53:22):
I bet it's just in him.
I bet he started really quick.

SPEAKER_04 (01:53:25):
Yeah, I I get that same impression that he would
have just hit the groundrunning, but I'm curious.
I want to know, was therebecause like I said, like I'm a
very optimistic guy, but youknow, damn.
I you know, I kind of confidedinto some of the guys the other
day.
I'm like, I'm having a rough goat work.
I'm sucking at my job, notintentionally, it's just it's a

(01:53:47):
whole new thing for me what I'mdoing at work.
A whole new thing.
It's a specialized unit.
I've I've never been in asupervisory position in a
specialized unit that isexpanding and doing things that
have never been done in lawenforcement.
And I'm surrounded by a team ofrock stars, a bunch of guys that
have they're seasoned and knowwhat they're doing.

(01:54:09):
And here's this new babysergeant that's never done any
of this stuff coming in and justscrewing the pooch left and
right.
I just keep screwing up, youknow, don't know what to do,
need my handheld for this.
Don't do something I probablyshould have been doing.
Uh just left and right.
I've been I've been having a badgo at work and I'm trying to get

(01:54:30):
out of that funk.

SPEAKER_00 (01:54:31):
Uh but hey, at least you're you're recognizing that
and you're willing to learn,willing to change.
There's a lot of people thatwill stay in that funk, and I
know you, you're gonna go forperfection.
And it looks like I'm freezingagain, and I apologize, guys.

SPEAKER_04 (01:54:43):
There you go.
Yeah, you kind of unfroze therefor a second.
Jesus, can we get fiber out inthe country, please?
Starlink something.
There you go, you unfroze,Benny.
Yeah, so for me, like even me,like I went through a little
funk where I was just like,damn, I keep screwing up left
and right.
And you know, the last few days,I ate small little wins, and you

(01:55:06):
guys know me.
I hold on to the slot.
Well, break them, baby.
I'm like, oh, I did somethinggood, I got a compliment, or I
did this, and they were like,Thank you.
And I was like, that's what Ineed to be doing.
I need to keep doing that shit.
So um, yeah, Wade Lucero.
Eric is suffering from ID fix,not being on the streets.

(01:55:27):
I gotta get it.
I need some of the IDs, JoeRogan.

SPEAKER_00 (01:55:34):
Oh shit, Wade.
Wade with the save.

SPEAKER_04 (01:55:40):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Ghost Patch, make sure you go toGhost Patch Customs, guys.
That is our um I what are thosecalled?
Flex flex shields.
Yes, those are the flex shields.
Make sure you check them out.
Make sure if you guys are tryingto improve your police and you
want them to do better and youwant their systems to work
better, and you can't afford topay more cops, go to
peregrine.io.

(01:56:01):
I guarantee at peregrine.io,they will help your police
department save money, and ifthey can't put police, uh more
new police in the system, theycan at least use technology to
help supplement.
So check them out.
Uh, also make sure you check outuh a missing one.
Who am I missing?
Ghost Patch?

SPEAKER_00 (01:56:20):
Peregrine shirts retro rifle.

SPEAKER_04 (01:56:25):
Yeah, I'm wearing it.
Yeah, my shirt.
I knew I was missing one.
Um retro-rifle.
Make sure you check them outbecause it's all Hawaiian shirts
and pop culture with guns hiddenin them.
So we are pro 2A, we're pro 1Ashit.

SPEAKER_00 (01:56:40):
Pro E P A.
Sound like I'm from Canada.

SPEAKER_04 (01:56:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shut up, Benny.
Um, I got the two-minutewarning, fellas.
Got the two-minute warning.
Okay, so we're we're gonna endit.
Yeah, we're we're right thereanyway.
So um, everybody, thank you forjoining us tonight.
Uh, Matt, make sure everybodychecks out uh your nonprofit, my
father's business.

SPEAKER_03 (01:57:04):
Yep, mfbuth.org.

SPEAKER_04 (01:57:06):
At mfbuse.org.
Correct.
And then um uh for banning, youguys just just look at banning
and say hello.
Um check him out on LinkedIn.
And for us, LinkedIn can you canfind us on two cops, one donut,
just about anywhere um that youcan think of.

(01:57:27):
So check us out.
Everybody tonight, thank youvery much, Wade Lucera.
I see you.
Peace, brother.
Uh Mr.
Bill Fold, Eyes of the State,everybody, take it easy.
Freeman Keys, take it easy andlater.

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