From Felony Charge to Police Badge How Did This Happen? Matt Thornton Story

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Coming up next on Two Cops, One Donut.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
I really.
I think I was stopped forspeeding.

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
And then a search ended up happening somehow and
it was a UUW Still a conviction,really, yeah, charged with
felony, and they let you becomea cop.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Yeah, which is crazy.
Disclaimer Welcome to Two CopsOne Donut podcast.
The views and opinionsexpressed by guests on the
podcast are their own and do notnecessarily reflect the views
of Two Cops One Donut, its hostsor affiliates.
The podcast is intended forentertainment and informational
purposes only.
We do not endorse any guests'opinions or actions discussed
during the show.
Any content provided by guestsis of their own volition and

(00:35):
listeners are encouraged to formtheir own opinions.
Furthermore, some content isgraphic and has harsh language
Viewer discretion advised and isintended for mature audiences.
Two Cops One Donut and its hostdo not accept any liability for
statements or actions taken byguests.
Thank you for listening.
All right, welcome back to CopsOne Donut.

(00:58):
I am your host, sergeant EricLevine, and I am humbled to be
with the one and only Detective,matt Thornton.
How are you, sir?
How are you doing, sarge?
I'm doing good I can't complain,Living the dream brother, yeah,
living the dream Finally madethis thing happen.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Love it.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Love being here, hell yeah.
So for those listening,detective Matt Thornton is a
seasoned, seasoned officer.
He has been in the game what 20plus years?
How long you been in it?
This is my 21st year.
21st year.
Okay, he's old as shit.
He's a former boxer, right?

(01:38):
Oh yeah, knows how to throw atwo-piece, if you know what I'm
talking about.
Knows how to throw a two-piece,if you know what I'm talking
about.
And Matt has what we would calla controversial career in a
sense, when cops look at him andwe'll get into that.
So that's going to be theexciting part.
But the most important thing isMatt is a part of the Two Cops

(02:00):
One Donut team now and we'rehappy to have him for one and
two.
We're going to tell you guystoday about what got him into
law enforcement, what hespecialized in and what he has
going on in his career right nowand the relationship with what
Two Cops One Donuts got going on.
So glad you're here, brother.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
I appreciate being here, man.
I love the intro.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Hell yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
I'm nobody important.
I'm just that dude with the bigmouth that likes to cause
controversy.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Hell yeah, brother.
Yeah, but it's for good reason,it's for good cause I
appreciate you being here, man.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
I love the dynamic we have here on this channel.
Like you always say, we're notan echo chamber chamber.
Me and you might not even agreeon a lot of things with the
panel, but we sit and talk aboutthem because we I mean we
respect each other and no matter, no matter where our opinion
comes from, we.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
That's what this country needs to sit down and
talk about it yeah and and notto be, not to be married to the
ideas either.
Like no, not for me, like myheart has changed on so many
different topics in differentways so many times.
You know, one of the big onesis like qualified immunity.
I am, I used to be like no,don't, don't mess with that at
all, like if you don't have.

(03:14):
And now I am my thoughts onqualified immunities.
I still don't think we shouldget rid of it, but I think there
does need to be some tweaks Ido see some flaws in it and I'm
like like, oh shit, I didn'tknow that Because us as cops we
never really get to see thefollow through once somebody's
qualified immunity has beentaken and we're like okay got
his qualified immunity taken.
That's probably what shouldhave happened.

(03:35):
And you find out the person gotnothing from that and it ended
up getting stomped down the road.
It's such a long follow through.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
See up, getting you know stomped down the road.
It's such a long follow-through.
See, I come from the other side.
Like I say, tear it down andrestructure.
Fine, figure something else out.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah it starts to start from scratch.
Yeah, yeah and so.
But that's the thing is, hadyou and I not had these
conversations before, maybe Iwould have still been the guy
that was like no, no, no, don'ttouch it, leave it, uh-huh, and
but again, that's why we have totalk.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
We have to come to the table and guess what America
?
We can disagree and I stilllove you, sarge Right.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
We'll be friends.
Exactly, I love it.
All right, let's get into MattThornton here First and foremost
.
Sir, law enforcement in general.
There's a lot of things thatdraw us to this career field and
it's always interesting to meand this is why I ask it on
every show what brought you intolaw enforcement?
Did you have a family member?
A tragedy?
Were you sick of the system?

(04:31):
How things were?
Did you happen to have a friendthat woke up one drunken night
and was like hey, let's go takethe civil service test tomorrow.
I want to be a cop and you'relike I'll go with you, bro.
I say that example because oneof my best friends in law
enforcement is exactly how hebecame a cop.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
That's crazy.
I know there's a lot ofdifferent stories like that.
Mine is a little different.
Like I never wanted to be a cop, I never growing up probably
like a very rare story I grew upand I hated the police.
I never wanted nothing to dowith them, the people that I
actually was around and whomentored me and raised me.

(05:07):
The cop was the enemy, and itjust happens.
It was just by chance that Igot interested in taking the
test and that was after a longtime.
You want me to start from thebeginning?

Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah, yeah, I want to know.
I want to know what pissed youoff about police.
And then, what was the because?
You and I are exactly alike inthis.
So I grew up in Flint hatedcops, oh, yeah, for sure.
And my dad was a cop down inTexas, so I would have these
conversations with him from afar.
But you don't have a fatherfigure there and you're like I

(05:42):
had a stepdad, don't get wrong.
But I had a lot of emotionalissues going on as a child where
you know it's like I wouldnever tell the dude like you're
not my dad, but at the same timeI didn't want to listen to
nothing and he worked secondshift, so I was never.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
You know, this ain't about me, it's about you,
brother I got you man we'vetalked about that's that issues
before?

Speaker 1 (06:01):
too, because you and I are both alike in that.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
So yes, I was a uh when I was growing up and I was
a.
I was a good athlete in school,but I was a terrible student,
rebellious kid.
I don't want to listen, Ididn't want to take orders of
destruction from anybody.
Um, the town that I grew up in,the, the pd, was.
I had several horribleinteractions with the cops there
.
All my friends and people thatI was around not all of them,

(06:26):
but a majority of them werestreet gang members and people
that weren't necessarily thegreatest influence and it
doesn't mean I don't love themto this day.
So the cop just seemed.
They just seemed like they werethe enemy, and that's just how
it always was.
Growing up, I actually my my,let me see, when I turned 21, I

(06:47):
was, I was.
As a young man, I always carrieda gun with me, legal or illegal
, I was.
I was uh.
I wouldn't say that I was acriminal, but I did a lot of
things I shouldn't have beendoing and I got caught with that
uh, a gun.
I remember I got caught with itriding in a car.
I had the glove.
I think I had the firearm inthe glove box.

(07:07):
I had the bullets hidden uphere.
I was just not a very nice kid.
You're a little shithead.
Yeah, I was.
I was.
I got arrested there.
I felt I was dehumanized onthat one.
It just made me hate the copsworse.
On top of that, that was rightaround the Rodney king era.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
Oh, that was to me.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
That was my george floyd, like rodney damn you and
all these white cops.
They're racist.
They can get away with justbeating the, beating the guy
half to death.
Nothing happens to them.
I hated them even more.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
So what were the circumstances behind the stop?

Speaker 2 (07:41):
uh, I really I think I was stopped for speeding.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
And then a search ended up happening somehow and
it was a UUW.
It's still a conviction, really.
Yeah, charged with a felony andthey let you become a cop.
Yeah, which is crazy, chargedwith a felony.
Charged with a felony.
I ended up, obviously, becausemy dad helped me pay for a good
attorney, I got a drop downmisdemeanor.

(08:04):
With some supervision.
It was the top two, class fouror, I'm sorry, a class eight,
and, and where I'm at is, uh,that's one step below the the
felony level, so stayed under myrecord.
It's still there to this day.
Look at you.
So, yeah, probably I'm kind oflike I got a buddy.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
I got a buddy on my department.
He had gotten arrested forpublic intoxication, I think in
New Orleans as a cop.
So we think they found hismugshot and they teased the hell
out of him.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good one.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
Oh my gosh.
I think it was the last time Ihad hair.
I got arrested for that stopand I had real long hair at the
time.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
My lawyer said make sure you look presentable in
courts.
I cut off all my hair and then,oh, there you go.
Well, involved ever since now.
Looking back, I know that was along time ago, rodney king
especially, you know was thereanything that you can look back
on where you're like as a cop?
You're like all right, maybe.
Maybe I was a little wrong here, because I can see where the
cops are coming from now, but atthe same time, is there
anything that you can see whereyou're like man?
These cops did not know whatthe hell they were doing.

(09:12):
They shouldn't have done thisor that.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
I see the second side of that story.
I see, like what were theydoing?
I've been personally and that'swhy I think I run my mouth so
much and I'm really not afraidto call it out have zero
tolerance for cops that are evenrude to people, much less
trample their rights.
I had some very bad experiencesgrowing up with officers and I

(09:35):
know, because I am one now andI've been one for a long time,
that this was unconstitutional.
This was tyranny.
This was just pitifullyhorrible behavior.
There was no cameras around.
They could have done whateverthey want.
This was.
This was just pitifully,pitifully horrible behavior.
There was no cameras around.
They could have done whateverthey want.
I was.
I was stopped by some wickedevil men, and that's personal
experience.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
So when I hear, when I hear the, the, the, we're all
the good guys like, like bro, weall have different experiences.
I will never see it that way.
I don't think that should betolerated, or or there should
not even be one of those left.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah I you had said something um that you growing up
and kind of the culture, thevibe I got.
You didn't say these exactwords, but the vibe I got was
the culture was not to trust thepolice.
Growing up, oh 100, and I grewup in a similar environment
where people didn't have a trustfor the police and I don't know

(10:33):
if it was warranted orunwarranted.
So I fully admit that, like Idon't know if all my friends
that would talk shit about thepolice were saying that because
it was fun to say at the time itwas just the rebellious thing
to do, or they were actuallyhaving these negative responses
from the cops.
I was not having anyinteractions with the cops, but
the ones that I did have weren'tgood.

(10:54):
Um, I had told people at thetime that you know, my mom had
just gotten us one of thoserollout hoops.
They were new like that.
You could, you know, towedaround and put it in the street,
play a little street ball.
You fill it up with water inthe bottom and, you know, hold
it up.
Well, they, the cops, haverolled up.
They're like, throw me the rock, throw me the rock.
I was like, oh shit, like itwas a two-man unit and I was

(11:15):
like they're gonna play ballwith us, like awesome.
I lived on a dead-end street, soit wasn't like I was impeding
flow through traffic by anymeans.
And the dude stabbed the ball.
His partner knocked our rimdown and broke the hoop and said
we told y'all to quit playingball in the street.
We're tired of dealing withthese calls.
And I was like what the fuck,you know.

(11:36):
And so that was my big run-inwith the cops.
Like that's not, that doesn'tcompare to a lot of people's
experiences.
I had bad experiences but forme I remember calling my dad and
be like dad.
I know you're a good cop, but,man, I fucking hate him.
I can't stand him.
And that's when he told me youcan either be a part of the
problem or you can be part ofthe solution.
At the time I did not want tohear that.

(11:58):
You know you're a hormonepuberty changing child because
that's where I was at in my life.
I didn't want to hear that.
And then something clicked.
You know, 16 years old-ish, hadmy license, had a little bit of
freedom, and I'm starting toreally kind of think about where
I want my life to go.

(12:19):
And I've seen a few of myfriends getting in trouble.
You know, dope doing stuff andI'm like man, I could see me
easily getting caught up in that.
I don't want to go down thatroute.
So I tried to avoid them and Iwas like what if I try?
This is the cockiness of me.
What if I try to change thesystem?
What if I I'm the change inpolice?

Speaker 2 (12:40):
really, how old were you?
I, I was 16, dude.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
Oh my gosh, an idiot, an idiot, don't get me wrong.
I think we can affect a lot inour little fishbowl, but the
arrogance to have at 16, thatI'm going to change.
I'm going to be the one tochange Flint.
That's what I thought.
Oh my gosh, that's great though.
Yeah, so where you're comingfrom, I get it and I'm with you

(13:27):
on that, and I think it's funlike cops and I'm like I was
like you tell them, if they askyou that, it's because I love
policing, that I do what I do.
I see the honor and potential ofit and I don't want anybody
else to screw that up, and I'vebeen blessed to have a great
career where everybody that I'veworked around has been that way
and the ones that weren't gotin trouble and got what I would

(13:51):
consider is the right thing,whether it was a write-up or it
was getting fired or it wasgetting charged, but that hasn't
been something I have seenrampant like.
I thought I was going to see ifthat makes sense.
I thought I was going to see iteverywhere, um.
But I do also think I was justblessed on where I'm at.

(14:11):
I got lucky.
I'm in.
I literally am in what Iconsider probably one of the
best departments in the nation.
Thankfully, um and uh, I can'tsay where it's at.
You guys know that everybodylistening can't say it on the
podcast, but really I would tellyou if I was miserable there, I
would tell you if I was havinga bad experience.

(14:33):
But I haven't.
I've I've literally seen someof the best professionals, so
the best training.
I don't see.
I wish it was the model for thenation I would really wish it
was, but is what it is.
But back to you, sir, back toyou.
So you got this bad experience.
You get this um, almost felony.
Uh, you're a little shitheadcarrying around, you know what

(14:53):
were you carrying?

Speaker 2 (14:54):
I'm just curious what was your?
I believe it was like a little30.
I wonder if it fit in my pocketmy brother had 38 my brother, I
had a nine.
I always had a little 38snowballs okay, that's.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
that's old school gangster cop stuff Like mafia
style.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, Back in the day .
Oh my gosh, what an idiot.
I couldn't hit the broad sideof a barn with that thing.
Probably I was a young guy.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Nobody To me see.
That's how I understand theanger in a young man.
I remember what it felt like tobe cuffed in those handcuffs
that hurt so bad, sitting inthat squad for hours.
The cops were standing above memaking comments and then having
to go in front of a judgesitting in a cell.
I know how that feels.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
And I understand the rage of a young man.
I was just an angry young man,yeah, nothing more, nothing less
.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
And which is so funny because I'm such an optimistic
person now and when I was a kid,I remember being just pissed
off all the time, no reason, andbeing mad.
Like I got to visit I wouldvisit my dad during the summers
and I did not have a badupbringing.
Like I didn't have a roughhousehold.
Like my mom was tough becauseshe had to be.

(16:00):
She was, you know, basically asingle mom with my stepdad
working second shift.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
So she was tough as she needed to be with me, but I
was still so mad that my dadwasn't in the picture.
Yeah, there's a lot ofpsychological stuff that we
don't even realize is there.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah, and you know, looking back, my parents weren't
compatible people.
There's no way they should havebeen together and they realized
that very early.
So I'm glad they did.
Actually, reflecting now, I'mso glad that they did that
because I think they're betterpeople because of it and I'm a
better person because of it.
I am who I am because of thatwhole experience but I don't

(16:40):
know why.
I was just full of crazychemical reactions I guess at
that time and the environmentbeing around Flint and you know,
mount Morris and in Beecher andjust everywhere that we were,
is just nonstop closure.
Everything was, you know,businesses never stayed open.
The GM plants were closing allthe time.

(17:02):
There's always.
It just is a constant state ofdecay.
That's what I grew up in justdecay all the time and sounds
like.
What was it like for you as faras your environment growing up,
where you were at?

Speaker 2 (17:14):
uh, it was just who I was around really, the people
that mentored me.
One person that mentored me alot growing up was a dude.
He was the chief in a prettyI'm not gonna say the name, but
a rather large street gang andhe kind of took me under his
wing and just showed me hedidn't, he didn't encourage me
to be in the gang or anythinglike that, but he, he showed me

(17:34):
the rules of the life and thisis where the morals and
standards and he was really goodto me, yeah and um just
protected me.
I always felt safe.
He's older, um, I I was, I was,I was just kind of almost felt
super protective and in awe ofhim.
So he's kind of what.
And that's where I saw one of myworst encounters was was when

(17:55):
the police stopped when I waswith him one time.
No probable cause Hands wereput on us and then and then the
stuff that they said was thereally scary thing yeah, evil,
evil, stuff that they weresaying like bragging about.
He would tell me that, yeah,these are the two cops that beat
, beat me up and left me on theside of the road last week.
And sure enough, that's who itwas they were talking about.

(18:16):
I heard them with my own ears.
Wow, I beat none because, justbecause of who he is, we didn't
have no honesty.
We were going to get some foodand, um, yeah, stuff like that,
like so I saw it firsthand and Iheard about it constantly, yeah
.
So that was kind of who whomolded me and and I still use
some of them principles to thisday, not in a negative way.
I'm not trying to glorify thatstreet light, but there is a,

(18:38):
there is a certain code that Irespect hey y'all, eric levine,
two cops, one donut.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
I'm out here currently on my military time
and I thought I'd take a secondto kind of give a shout out to
my sponsor, peregrine.
I've roughly got about 18 yearsof law enforcement under my
belt and I've seen a lot ofreally cool advancements in law
enforcement.
The biggest advancements in lawenforcement, I think, are like
fingerprints, dna testing andthen, more recently I would say,
license plate readers.

(19:04):
Those things have all changedthe game in law enforcement and
now I think Peregrine is on thatlevel that's going to change it
up.
But I've had people ask me whatis Peregrine?
And I want to talk about that.
Now there's a caveat to it.
Peregrine is so in-depth I'monly going to talk about one
small feature that it's able todo, because I can't fit

(19:25):
everything that they do in onelittle ad.
All right, I'm going to takeyou on a little mental journey.
So if you're law enforcement,you work for an agency.
This is for you guys, so followalong with me.
Imagine you're an investigatorand you're working on a property
crime.
We'll say a property crimespecifically like air
conditioning thefts.
That's a big one.
In Texas You've had two casesthis week alone and, typically

(19:48):
speaking, unless you go talk tothe other detectives that you
work with, you're not going toknow for at least a week or
maybe a month or two that theyalso have AC thefts that are
related to your thefts Ininvestigations.
There's like this internal gapof sharing information.
Here's where Peregrine startsto flip things on its head, so
to speak.

(20:08):
Peregrine can sift through yourreports and start to identify
the detectives and the casesthat match the similar MO to
your cases that you're working,and it can bridge that
information and present it toyou in an easy to read package.
Hold on, it gets better, Ipromise.

(20:31):
Peregrine can scan your CADcalls for related incidents and
can even comb through suspecthistory in your report writing
system.
Like RMS, it's able to matchpossible suspects based on the
MO and the geographicallocations.
Oh wait, the rabbit hole goesdeeper.
If you've got a suspect name,Peregrine has the ability to
analyze your stored body camvideos and search for that
suspect's name and find videosof them to give you the most

(20:55):
up-to-date context with thatsuspect.
And what's great about that?
As an investigator you knowyour body cam has the ability to
geolocate so you can see thelatest locations, specifically
where your suspect was last seen.
This is just the tip of theiceberg and all I wanted to do
with it is tease you guys enough, just to seek out more
information.

(21:16):
So please reach out to mepersonally, dm me, or reach out
to peregrineio and just tellthem that eric levine from two
cops when donut sent you.
I don't endorse things I don'tbelieve in and I would stake my
reputation on their product.
Please check them out because Iknow it's going to change law
enforcement and here's one ofthe biggest um injustices that

(21:38):
we do in policing is we take afresh boy scout and where do we?
put them In the roughest,hoodest neighborhood when they
hit the streets, and I thinkthat's the most messed up system
thing that we do.
I get it Trial by fire, that'swhat they say.
Trial by fire.
But who does that benefit?
It benefits the officer, maybebecause he becomes cultured and

(22:04):
learns and understands thestreets, but it doesn't benefit
the citizens at all and it sureas hell is a growing pain that
they have to deal with.
When guys like the person thatmentored you has to come deal
with this new rookie cop andteach him the ropes in a way and
how to talk to people and allof that stuff, because that's

(22:26):
what ends up happening.
We don't consider that.
I would say that when we startputting people out in the
streets, we have to considertheir backgrounds.
You've got to put them undersomebody that can help teach
them that without getting themhurt and without inflaming that
neighborhood.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yeah, yeah, there's a certain respect that comes with
with the whole thing on thestreet is that's the code of the
streets Respect.
Give respect, you'll getrespect.
Yes, and I think that's where alot of these young and the PDs
get it so wrong.
Like man you're not.
You are not giving respect justbecause you wear that uniform.
I understood that from day oneRight.
So many don't.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yep, yeah, absolutely I.
And it's funny too, cause I Iattribute the way that I talk to
people from from how I grew upum, understanding you know who,
even just who, to approach first.
Like you know, talking to thewrong person at the wrong time
can cause a lot of problems, andyou know, if you're, if I am

(23:26):
going up to a couple of gangmembers and I recognize who's a
shot caller and who's the, whatyou know, the young, young and
who's you know more of the OGsand stuff like that.
But like, hey, can I, can Italk to you?
Is it okay, is it cool if Italk to him?
Like, just, even though I knowI'm going to talk to that guy?
Eventually, I just asked the OGif it was cool if I talked to

(23:46):
that dude and it just showed hima little piece of street
respect and that's all it reallytook.
It is hard to teach that to aBoy Scout and I'm not saying
that as a derogatory thing.
It's not your fault if you grewup in a great home, in a great
neighborhood and you didn't haveany crime that you ever faced.

(24:06):
That's not your fault and Iadmire people that grew up that
way and want to become a cop.
But I will say I think the bestcops are the ones that grew up
on the line.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
It's the world you see.
I mean like my family.
I'm not gonna name them by name, I love them dearly, but I mean
they're, they were entrenchedand they were, they were into
some stuff.
Um, I got a.
Uh, I remember who was in thewar gosh, he's in a wheelchair
to this day from from doingstuff on the street.
Um, they're I've.

(24:43):
I know what it's like to havethose people that most I'm gonna
say it, most cops will considertheir enemy like those are the
shitheads of the the world.
No, I know what it feels liketo get genuine love from them
and respect, and that's actuallywho protected and raised me.
So, yeah, I, I really resentwhen I hear that cone and and

(25:04):
and.
There's cops, cops that havethat attitude.
My, my, my motto is like every,everyone under the sun deserves
respect.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yep, and there's again.
I go back to the Boy Scout idea.
If you never seen somebody thatwas raised by a single mom,
whose mom was raised by a singlemom, whose mom was raised by a
single mom, you, you've got nofucking clue of the difference
there culturally.
Yeah, they, they, they have noidea that this person has never

(25:35):
even considered anything otherthan a life of crime.
And they have a plan for whenthey get locked up.
That concept, concept likeyou've got a college concept,
you've got I'm going to graduatehigh school, I'm going to go to
college, I'm going to do thiscareer and then I'm going to
have a family.
This person is I'm going to gosling, I'm, when I get locked up

(25:56):
, I'm going to go meet my boysover there, I'm going to do my
time, I'm going to learn somestuff and I'm gonna go back out
and I'm gonna take care of myfamily the same way and I'm not
gonna get caught this time.
And to other people, that'scrazy.
And I'm sitting there.
I'm like dude, you, you gottaunderstand.
They didn't have so.
Just being aware that that's apossibility to some of these

(26:17):
cops that come out is ismind-blowing to them, like I
used literally see the lightbulbs go off in their head.
They're like no one's ever toldme it that way yeah, it's the,
it's a mixture.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
That's why I think the most like, like you said,
the most uh, effective cops arethe ones that have know a
mixture of both worlds right,and understand and respect both
worlds.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Um, yeah, and that's so with you and you.
You're growing up.
You're not liking police,you're in a sketchy hood.
Sounds like it doesn't soundlike you were growing up.
You're not liking police,you're in a sketchy hood.
Sounds like it doesn't soundlike you were growing up in the
middle America.
So, as you're going throughthat, what was the catalyst?

Speaker 2 (26:59):
The catalyst for me was my daughter, my mom, I got
her mom pregnant when I was 2121 right after I got out of out
of jail, okay, and I wasn't injail for long, it was a day and
it was like overnight but rightafter I met her mom not enough
to give you real street cred.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
But no, no, no, I've been in the joint.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
I said long enough to put that orange.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, but not long enough, let me let me ask you
this did your woman put somemoney down on your books?
No, he's like.
I don't even have a book yet.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
No, I didn't even get a chance to get a book and I
told her.
I ain't never coming back here.
Oh shit, yeah, I ended uphaving my daughter.
I love my daughter.
She just got married.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
Okay, so you had your kid Yep, and I mean you could
have gone straight and done alot of things.
Why police work?
Well, what happened?

Speaker 2 (27:51):
was my hatred towards police never really stopped.
I got a job First it was awarehouse, then it was a
chemical plant, and I just had asteady resume.
I had followed the law from thetime I was 21 until I was time
I was 28.
Didn't get in any more trouble,didn't?
I?
Was just a solid citizen.
I was poor, really poor,struggled, lived, check to check

(28:14):
.
So what happened was a coupleof my friends became cops.
They went the college route,the army route, and I had known
them growing up Same route Iwent.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
And so I thought it was.
I mean, I was a little older, Ihad two kids by that time and I
thought it was pretty cool.
Like man, what do you think?
I'm looking at these ads in thepaper and it says all you need
is a high school diploma.
I never went to college, Inever took an ACT, I didn't go
to college.
So I was like, well, what's itgoing to hurt, just to try?
I remember talking about itwith my wife at the time and she

(28:46):
was like it's $20.
I remember that being the issue.
It was $20 to take the test andwe didn't have money back then.
We were pretty poor, two kidsand trying to pay for a house.
So I ended up taking the testand the city.
I did really well on the testand I was shocked.
I'm like, wow, an idiot like methey're really going to
consider.
Because it's not that I heldpolice in high esteem.

(29:08):
My motivation was this was acareer, this was way more money
for me.
My kids can look up and thinkthat, ok, my dad just not just a
warehouse guy.
And so I was like, ok, well,let's see, I didn't look at it
as helping anybody.
I still was very, very weary ofthe police and I did really

(29:28):
well on that test and I remembergetting so close and you want
to hear a funny story about that.
I was in my house when I youknow, they do the background
checks and they doinvestigations and they will pop
up at your house when you're acandidate yeah, I didn't know
about this stuff.
So they pop in at my house andthey didn't realize.

(29:49):
I had no idea that was going tohappen.
I had my brother in law livingwith me who just got out of
prison for a shooting, and hewas standing in the living room
next to me when this backgroundinvestigator All of a sudden, he
runs to the bathroom, startsflushing toilets.
We snuck up.
I'm like bro, get downstairs,man.
I thought I knew what they weredoing, so we smuggled him

(30:11):
downstairs.
That's a true story.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
That is epic.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
We smuggled him in the basement.
I had to wake my wife up at thetime and I was like, hey, your
brother's downstairs, go aheadand tell these cops what a good
dude I am.
so they sat at the table and Iknow my brother was with his ear
against the door.
The base was listening, yeah.
But we got through that.
The cop left, or theinvestigator left, and he said,

(30:36):
uh, if you pass the psych test,we're gonna hire you.
And then about a week later Igot a letter in the mail.
It turns out they did extrabackground checks and they found
out who my family was and theysaid no, because of your
background and because of whoyour family is, we're not taking
you.
And that stung.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
That really stung.
Okay, so in that you finally,obviously you do get hired.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah, so I went in, maybe about a year later.
Okay, so I go for the city thatI'm in now and that's the city,
the actual city I grew up inand I was a ball player there.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Okay, so you became a cop in the city you grew up in.
Yep, I have made it.
I have made some boldstatements about when I was
wanting to be a cop, some boldstatements about when I was
wanting to be a cop.
I wanted to be a cop where Igrew up.
After having been a cop.
I am so glad I didn't.
It's got its perks and it's gothis negative.
Yes, and one of the things thatI never really considered was

(31:38):
one you end up finding out dirton people that you had no clue
about and had these opinions wayup here of, and then those
opinions come way down here andthat that hurts, um, so I, I'm,
I'm glad I didn't have to dealwith that.
And then the other part for meis the ability to be corrupted

(32:05):
is much higher when you're in acity that you and I don't mean
corrupted in a.
I guess it's always a bad way,but you know people are wanting
to hey, yeah, come to ourrestaurant, you know, we, we
remember you come, you know,have a free dinner on us, or
come over here, and you know, uh, and then you have to pull that
person over and you get caughtin these weird positions and

(32:28):
bennett knows a million timesyeah and then then you're
sitting down at a restaurantthat you grew up around and your
family's with you and yourealize you arrested one of the
cooks yeah, that.
So for me I'm like man, I'm soglad I didn't have to deal with
that um, but when I was comingup I would have told you for

(32:50):
sure I want to be a cop in flint.
You know, to this day I stilllove, um, some of what flint
history has.
You know, they, they, they'vegot a lot of cool history, but
they have some bad history andI've always respected and loved
their uniforms Stupid thingsthat you look back at as a kid

(33:12):
Like me.
I love Michigan State Police,love them.
I absolutely adore MichiganState Police because of their
uniform and their car.
I don't understand what is it?
Cool color, okay.
So they have what's called theblue goose, okay, I don't know
if you've ever seen that.
Actually, while we're sittinghere chit-chatting, I can
probably pull that up and, uh,let me so.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
I'm gonna let this idiot out real quick.
Okay, you do that.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
I'll.
I will talk while we're doingthat.
It's kind of a first for thepodcast, so if you're listening,
most of you are not going tosee this.
You are actually only going tohear it, because I do not post
the whole video episode, I onlypost the clips, and so I am

(33:59):
pulling this car up specificallyjust for Matt to look at.
Let's see here.
Share screen.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
Okay, oh, I've seen those before yeah, yeah, yeah,
they're pretty.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
This is.
That's a pretty good shot rightthere.
So, um, little history on thatcar in itself is the the you
know, of course, the bubblegumlight on top.
Um, and back in the day theyused to put a red light on that
stop sign that goes across thehood, and that way you knew that
it was the state police thatwere there and were there.

(34:37):
So if they were out in front ofyour house on a domestic or
whatever other people would knowthat that's where they're at.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Ah yeah, I remember just seeing some training videos
with those cars in it.
I think we did stop trainingwith them as the example.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah, and they're, they're, it's not, they're a
veryrenowned, like you know,georgia State Police, if you're
going to watch a Chase video.
It's probably going to be aGeorgia State Police video.
So same with Michigan StatePolice.
They're just very well-roundedstate troopers and they also
like they handle calls.
They're not just highway, theydon't just sit on interstates

(35:15):
and stuff like that.
They go, they go handle calls,help out local law enforcement
and stuff like that.
So wow.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
That's unheard of here.
You won't see a trooper in, uhno.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I was actually a littledisappointed when I went to
where I went.
Um, you know a million pluspeople in here we are on the
fricking freeway handlingaccidents and stuff.
I was like where's the statepolice Exactly?
Why are they?

Speaker 2 (35:39):
not dealing with this crap.
The only time I the only timein my life that I've ever seen a
state trooper this is a crazystory.
The only time I've ever seenone was when I was arrested.
We happened to, I remember,because the stop, the stop,
happened to be like right downthe street from where he lived,
or something.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
He wasn't on the call .

Speaker 2 (35:59):
This is the only time I've ever seen a state trooper
car lit up on a scene.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
I love that we keep coming back to you being
arrested and we're talking to acop guys.
This is the best part.
I love this.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
He talked really bad to me too, punk, whoever you are
, that's why you know, buddy,they love right, people don't
forget yeah, let me catch you onthe street.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
You're probably long gone now, you old as shit oh,
that was old 30 years ago allright, so you get hired and you
go through police training.
Yeah, now you, as a person thatis very outspoken about
policing in general, what wasyour impression through the
training?
What was the pros and cons thatyou saw for your impression of

(36:44):
a person that didn't really carefor police?

Speaker 2 (36:47):
It was shocking it was.
I didn't have a good experienceat all.
They tried to make an exampleof me.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Because you asked questions?

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Not really no.
And even back then.
Oh, the second day I'm downthere, the leader.
I got trained at one of themilitaristic academies.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
The guy running the whole thing pulls me in front of
the class with my criminalhistory in his hand.
He's trying to humiliate me infront of everybody.
No shit, yeah.
Yeah, I look back on it.
I just I want to fight thatdude.
To this day, I'm a grown manwith two kids.
The pd just hired me, did allthese like they're fine with me,
right?
So you want to bring me outhere and humiliate me?
Plus, I was only when therewere tattoos.

(37:30):
Um, so you were inked up rightthen.
Yeah, I was inked up back thennot as bad as I am now, but I
still had.
I still had a lot of ink, yeah,um.
So I thought it was unfair and,being a 28, 28 year old father
or two like I, I found it sodisrespectful so that that was
like that was the worst pill toswallow, right off the bat yeah,

(37:52):
so you weren't even like afresh snot nose rookie.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
You were no, 28 years old.
You're growing.
This one's there, yeah, okay soI mean, I I'm not.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
I'm not that outspoken that I'm gonna try to
uh push back against someonewho's literally could call home
and have me, can this second?

Speaker 1 (38:08):
so I had to swallow it and uh now as being I was an
academy instructor for threeyears I will tell you we would
pull people.
If we could embarrass you insome sort of way or put you on
the spot or anything, we woulddo that.

(38:28):
But I could always tell you whywe're doing that.
I would do that because we needto test you and make sure, like
, if you can't handle pressurein front of a safe, captive
audience, then how are you goingto handle it in the streets?
That would be and I'm notsaying that that's what happened
to you.
I am saying like anytime Iwould do something.

(38:51):
Like if my leadership pulled meand were like, why are you, you
know, doing X?
Are you trying to specifically,like you said, trying to
humiliate somebody?
No, I would never try tohumiliate somebody.
I will try to make a teachingmoment and try to observe the
person's reaction to make surethat if they can't handle it
right here, they're not going tohandle it on the street when

(39:12):
there's a crowd around them,stuff like that.
So I can see that angle.
Was that your impression?
You've been a cop 20 plus years.
You know if that was what theywere trying to do or if they
weren't, were they doing it justto be jackasses, or were they
doing?

Speaker 2 (39:25):
it.
I thought they were doing itbecause they didn't like the
fact that a dude with a criminalrecord was disgracing their
academy.
And back then like that wasprobably very rare.
That's the.
That's the impression I got.
Yeah, just because I didn't seethem, I seen them test one of
the guy kind of like that, buthe was that dude was, he was a

(39:47):
mess, like he was.
He he wasn't going to make it,so but I, I really it was just
the personal things that theywould say to me.
I didn't appreciate.
I think it was at, it was atthat moment.
Actually.
I'm actually thankful for itnow because it built up.
It's like look, dude, I'm goingto be, I'm going to leave my

(40:07):
mark, people are going to knowmy name in this profession and
I'm going to prove all you guyswrong.
So I take it as motivation.
Yeah, that's my man that's.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
That's why.
How are you?
That's where you and I are verylike I I look at things as a
challenge all the time, like,all right, you're telling me
that I can't change thingsuh-huh all right, let me find
out.
That's exactly what mymotivation was yeah let me find
out.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
I just knew I would be like who is this guy?
I don't even remember your name.
But how long was your academy?
Oh, let's see three months.
Four months, 480 hours, what isthat?

Speaker 1 (40:43):
I'm not a math, you and I are dumb yeah, I'm I don't
know, it's a while I was gonnasay normally when I have people
on here, I'm like I'm dumb so Ican't math.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
But I know you and I were both dumb, so that I I got
through it.
It was uh, I I didn't.
Obviously I didn't have thegreatest time down there.
You learn and they do.
You learn discipline and anddifferent things like that.
I I didn't get the, the amountof learning that the or the type
of learning that we got.
I I didn't apply.

(41:13):
I don't believe in themilitaristic academy, I just
don't.
We made our beds for like halfthe time we're down there and
learned about the Constitutionfor 10 minutes.
It was kind of just bizarre tome, yeah that is a very good
point.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
That's a very good point.
I will say I am not a fan ofblock training and that,
especially when you were comingup back in the day, that was a
big thing.
Block training Are you familiarwith that term?
No, what is that?
Okay?
So block training is like allright.
Week one we're going to go overthe constitution.
Week two, we're going to goover arrest, search and seizure.

(41:52):
Week three, we're going to goover combatives.
Week four we're going to goover combatives.
Week four we're going to go overarrest, search and seizure, so
you never come back to it.
You get, you get through it,you test on it and then you go
to the next.
Right, that is terrible.
That is a terrible form oftraining and that was very
popular, you know, especially80s and 90s, like that's huge,
um, and I think there'sdepartments to still do it today

(42:13):
.
Um, where I'm at, everything isprogressive, it's so, and you're
a fighter, so I I will kind ofput it in terms that you
understand best, if I'm gonnalearn how to fight, I gotta
start with my stance.
I gotta start learning.
You know, related stance, Igotta learn how.
What's a fist?
Okay, we're gonna break it down.
Basic, my thumb can't be tucked, that's a bad fist.

(42:35):
Chin, we're going to break itdown.
Basic, my thumb can't be tucked, that's a bad fist.
Keep your chin down.
Yeah, keep your chin down,stuff like that.
Okay, now that you got thestance, now we're going to learn
a jab.
Here's a jab, here's a cross.
All right, we're going to keepgoing.
Now guys, all right, it's weekthree.
Let me see your fist.

(42:58):
All right, let me see that jabcross.
All right, we're gonna throw ina hook, all right, cool, cool.
Now we're gonna.
You know, we're gonna bob andweave, we're gonna get up and
under that like cool.
But we keep going back to thefeet, we keep going back to your
stance, we keep going back tothe fist.
We don't just touch onsomething and then get past it.
We we progress the whole way.
The entire academy should belearning the entire sequence of
a fight does that make sense oh,absolutely.

(43:19):
That's how we teach our controltactics.
Where I'm at is the.
It's the full sequence of afight.
You start on your feet, you gettaken to the ground, you get
back up, you separate, you go toyour batman belt, you do all
that stuff.
But everything that we do isbased on the concept of trying
to start things with your hands,knowing when to abandon the
hands and go to your batman belt, or earning your paycheck.

(43:43):
So what you'll find where I'mat and I'm very proud of this
fact is that our guys don'tdepend on their batman belt.
The stats don't back that up.
Our guys try to go hands-onalmost every time.
They don't depend on theirBatman belt.
The stats don't back that up.
Our guys try to go hands-onalmost every time.
They don't immediately go to agun, they don't immediately go
to their taser, they don'timmediately go to pepper spray.
They try to go hands-on first.

(44:03):
I love that.
I think that's how it should beand that's how I like to look
at academies.
We're not just going over theConstitution.
We're not just going over theconstitution.
We're going to say, hey, here'sthe constitution, these are
what you guys need to know.
Here's all the ones that affectyou the most in policing.
Like you as a cop, you don'tneed to know the third amendment
, you don't even know how toquarter.

(44:24):
You know military people.
Like, that's not somethingthat's going to affect you, but
let's talk about the ones thatreally are going to affect you
the most.
We're going to talk about themall, but we're going to go over
the ones that affect you themost on the job.
Cool, now you got that concept.
Here's some scenarios.
Now we're going to go throughscenario training, but guess
what we're going to sprinkle inthe constitution again.
How does it apply to thescenario you just did?

(44:46):
It needs to have that backdrop,yes, and so we're going to do a
loud music party.
This is one of our very popularscenarios that we do.
We have a loud music party atan apartment and we have a whole
mock village, an indoor mockvillage.
It's amazing, right?
So what we are trying to getthese cops to do, these recruits

(45:07):
to do, is put their foot in thedoorway.
That's what we're trying to do.
We bait them and're so good atit.
It's, we've dealt with it amillion times.
So we got the music going.
We're like and we're juststanding inside, we're dancing,
we're doing stupid shit, right,and we got fake beers and we're
drinking like, wow, yeah, fuckyou, pig, you know.

(45:28):
And we're like, all right,we're gonna shut the door.
Now you can go fuck yourself.
And we're going to shut thedoor.
And what do they do?
Bloop, bloop, bloop.
They put their hand up, theyput their foot in the doorway,
yeah, and then it's like boomend scenario.
Let's go back.
Let's debrief.
You fucked up.
Here's what you did.
You just violated the guy'srights.
Guess what.
You're fired and you're goingto get charged, like we.

(45:49):
I think that that's good.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
I mean that's, it's got to have the.
To me, the, the, the, thatblock training was it did me no
good.
I didn't remember.
I couldn't even tell you any ofit to this day.
I didn't.
I didn't care for the trainingdown there.
But to me, the two mostimportant things in that
training with when we're talkingabout backdrop, which which I
didn't receive any of, is thebackdrop that the public is

(46:13):
cherished.
The public comes first.
The public, no matter who theyare.
They're up here, they'recherished.
That and the Constitutionshould be the backdrop for
everything that we do.
I found the exact opposite atmy academy.
It just seemed like, okay, thepublic is just violators,
they're just shitheads.
They're the violators, they'realmost like the enemy.
You come out of there and youget these young guys with this

(46:34):
us versus them.
It's almost ingrained in theirhead yeah that okay.
Well, I guess everyone out thereis going to be against me.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Try to hurt me, yeah, but none of none of that was
trained to me and I really Ikind of sniffed that out pretty
pretty quickly, yeah, and that'sthe weird, that's the hard
balance to do, because you doneed to train your guys up here
for the worst case scenario.
So when they do because wealways when we train, when we

(47:01):
get out we're as fresh and sharpas we're probably ever going to
be in our career and then wedrop down Like we digress
because we're not doing thosetraining scenarios and all that
stuff all the time anymore.
So I like the concept oftraining way up here.
It's worked for the militaryfor generations and in policing

(47:21):
you do need to be ready and youdo need to understand and know
when it's time to be a warrioror a guardian or whatever term
you want to use, because I'veseen too many cops get hurt
because they're trying tode-escalate, de-escalate, get
hurt because they're trying todeescalate, deescalate,
deescalate, deescalate, and theydidn't realize that moment was
gone.
That was way gone.
You needed to be way up here andyou weren't ready for it.

(47:43):
So I understand the need to beup here, but that needs to be
also right there withencouraging exactly what you're
talking about.
Who did you swear your oath to?
What did you swear your oathfor?
You didn't get to pick andchoose who you swore that to.
Right, it's to everybody.
That's out there and that's whyyou know I get family members
that are like well, I can'tbelieve that you were so nice to

(48:06):
that guy.
After he did what he did.
He's in cuffs, it's over with.
We did what you think of it,just like you would think of a
doctor.
A doctor is going to save anyand everybody.
They don't give a shit if it'shitler on the bed.
If it's santa claus on the bed,they're going to save them.
That's what they swore an oathto do.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
That's their hit and there's too much fast and loose
with that, and that's one of mybiggest problems with police
work these days.
Um, I, I remember a perfectexample.
This was years ago and you knowhow you're in those, those,
those private facebook pagesthat are cop only pages.
Yeah, I remember being so.
I don't participate in thoseanymore.
I, I really I remember.

(48:45):
Here's a perfect example it's anecho chamber oh my gosh, yeah,
I, I, I remember there was ascenario.
Someone posted an article orsomething about a chief of
police that there was a childkiller in his city and the chief
of police was there when theyapprehended him and he beat the
heck out of the offender andeverybody on this page is like,

(49:07):
oh way to go, chief,congratulate them.
And I'm like reading all thisand it's just disgusting.
Like dude, he, he should becharged and in the cell right
next to this guy.
Now, what makes him anydifferent if he, if he can't do,
and as hard as you want, to dosomething to someone who hurt a
child?
We swore an oath not to do thatwe don't punish people and to

(49:28):
see it encouraged and act like,okay, well, in this situation,
it would be okay.
It's not a job to ever punish.
Yeah, and that oath you sworeit was to be a professional and
to to uh honor the constitutionand uh, cruel and unusual
punishment is is an antithesisto what you swore to uphold.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
So that makes you a disgrace like yep, and and
that's where I I push back onpeople all the time where I'm
like we are held to a higherstandard.
Yes, just because you're notholding yourself to a higher
standard doesn't mean I'm notgoing to.
And so when, when we talk aboutthis crap and people, you know
people will send me videos ofcops doing bad stuff and like,

(50:05):
well, they're really holdingthemselves to a higher standard,
and you know they're they'rebeing a little trollish.
I understand where they'recoming from.
They're frustrated, like, oh,where's your higher standard
here, where's your higherstandard there?
I'm like listen, I can'tcontrol what everybody else does
, but I can control what I do.
I can control what's going onin my little fishbowl.
I can tell you as a streetSergeant, on midnights, my guys

(50:25):
don't do that.
My guys are encouraged.
Every day, every roll call, wetalk about making a traffic stop
.
What if they don't want to givetheir ID?
We're going over these thingsand I tell them I'm like what if
you got to get in a fight withthem?
Okay, the cuffs are on.
Now what?
We dust them off, sarge, we getthem help.
That's it.
That's all I need.
That's what I want from you.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
It's nothing personal , it's just business and that's
exactly how you.
What makes the.
That should be every singletime.
There's no exceptions to that.
You are a professional, don'tmatter what the situation is,
you handle it right.
Yeah, no emotion, Yep, and berespectful.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
I mean.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
I've arrested.
I've been busted down doors formurders more times than I can
count.
Arrested them like puffed themup.
Are you good brother?
All right, let's go.
We're them like puffed them up.
Are you good brother?
All right, let's go.
We're gonna go for a ride andit's off you.
They didn't.
If they, even if they did,resist and there's a fight, it's
okay.
You're good brother.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
Their safety and their, their health comes way,
it's, it's utmost, no matter whoyou are well, and if that's a
concept that you can't getbehind, you're not ready for
this yet.
I'm not saying you can't learnthat.
You can learn it.
I absolutely think you canlearn it, but you're not ready
for this yet.
I'm not saying you can't learnthat.
You can learn it.
I absolutely think you canlearn it, but you're not ready
for it yet.
And that's why I look back atme.
When I'm 18, 21, I would havetold you I'm ready to be a cop.

(51:43):
Then I wasn't.
I was not.
I was not ready to be a cop atthat age.
And even now, you know, I feellike like to this day, I feel
like, oh man, I'm really in astride in my policing, like I
feel like I'm, I'm reallygetting it now.
Fuck, I've been in it 18 years.
I should have really felt thatway earlier in my career, but I

(52:06):
didn't.
And and I have I have gone inthis rollercoaster ride through
my career.
You know where, at thebeginning, I was caught up in
that that echo chamber crap,because all my friends were
there.
I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah,okay, cool, yeah, yeah, you got
that guy.
All right, cool, you know.
And I'm like all right, yeah,what are we doing?
We're getting Oakley sunglasses.
Let's go get Punisher tattooswith a thin blue line through
their face.
I didn't really do that, guys.

(52:26):
Oh my gosh, I'm joking.
I got a removal guy that I'vesent you, but you know what I
mean.
Like that's like, and you'rehanging out with with these new
cops, you're a new cop andyou're all hanging out and
you're all talking cop stuff allthe time.
And then something hit me andI'm just like, oh my god, like

(52:46):
it's the same story over andover and over.
Like I gotta get out of this, Igotta, I gotta balance myself.
And I would balance myself withpeople back home.
And so you got to.
Yeah, so I was constantly youknow I'm in a different state
but I would reach out and I'mlike, oh, this is kind of what
we did.
And they'd be like that'sfucked up, man.
And I'm like what do you mean?
It's fucked up.
Like well, think like you wouldhave never done that.

(53:08):
Like here, like think about it.
And I'm like, oh shit, yeah,you're kind of right.
Like, yeah, okay, and that'swhen.
That's when it started to hitme.
You know, it's probably threeyears into my career where I was
like I need something to bringme back level where I was at,
because I'm I'm getting toocaught up in in in this policing

(53:29):
stuff and and I'm losing my Idon't want to say my humanity,
but I'm losing my sense of whyand where I came from, because
it was so good.
I wasn't used to that.
It was so like the cops weregreat.
You know where I was at now,like everybody was, and I'm like
, oh man, yeah, and we'recatching real bad guys.
And I'm like, oh yeah, yeah,but then you're forgetting all

(53:51):
that stuff that made you who youwere and what you're doing.
I'm like I got to remember thisstuff.
And so I got to bring that voiceback out.
So that's so funny man justdoing this career as long as
we've done.
And for you, like, once you andI got connected, I started
looking at some of your olderstuff and seeing where you're at

(54:11):
now.
I'm like he's growing too.
It isn't just me, we're bothgrowing like we continue to grow
in what we're doing, so it'spretty cool, um fortunately, I I
never had to deal with um beingapart like I've.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
My family's always kept me ground.
My family and people that Igrew up with, they, they kept me
grounded.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
I never really, but you didn't leave it.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
Yeah, I, I did, I did yeah that had been tough.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
Yeah, so that that it disconnected me.
I started to lose touch and andI'll get people now to this day
they're like why do you have,why do you have all these people
from flint or whatever?
They hate cops and they're allover your stuff.
I'm like because they keep megrounded.
Yeah, I don't, don't rememberyou.
Yeah, I'm like these are thepeople that I grew up around.

(54:56):
Like, don't look up theircriminal history, you know, and
so that type of thing.
I got away from it.
I think that's where you and Iare different.
You went right back to it whereI didn't, and so that's a crazy
story like how that actuallyworked out.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
When I get back from the academy, I remember that I,
uh I wasn't welcomed at all bythe PD they by your department.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
No, they hired you right.
Yeah, yeah, did you go to anacademy where people from all
different PDs okay?
So can you?
Okay, so can you kind ofexplain that?
Because there's some peoplethat they don't know that
concept.
They think, like me, theacademy I went to where I'm at
now, it's just for thatdepartment.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
Oh yeah, no, mine was a state academy, it was for
people.
There was troopers, they callthem cadets.
They have their own class, butall the mixed cops, the counties
and the city cops, all were inthe same group together.
So there was cops fromeverywhere in my academy, in my
class and you just bunk withthem military style.
Okay cool In the same bed right.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
The same bedroom that smelled smelling there.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
It was horrible.
I know some of your people aregoing to be listening to this.
They'll be like oh yeah,they'll be like Martin.
You was in the same bed withanother dude.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Yeah, oh yeah, I was in a lot of beds with a lot of
other dudes.
Man, Don't remind me.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
Okay, so doing that, you get to your department and
they didn't know who they hired.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
A lot of the guys knew of me and who I was around
all the time and who my familywas, and and uh, Cause you went
to the city that you grew up in,yeah yeah.
And so I was one of the fewfrom my city policing my city.
I'm looking at these guys, I'mlike you guys are like you ain't
from here, You're not, you'renot my city.
But at the same time, theyjudged me and I was not welcome

(56:55):
at all and that was a rough timefor me, Damn yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
How did they make you not feel welcome?

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Rumors.
When I started, I got cursedout my first day.
What am I going to do?
What am I going to say tosomebody, to a senior officer
who wants to get in my face yeah, because of something that he
heard that I did, but I neverdid and what?
I'm going to knock this dudeout and just lose everything
right now.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Right.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
So that was a hard pill to swallow and that was 21
years ago.
I still feel some sort of wayabout it, but I had some people
tell me but shout out to whohe's.
He's the deputy chief Now, theguy who was my first FTO.
We had a talk and he went tobat for me.
He squashed it all.
He's like dude.
Nobody ever said anything aboutThornton.
He set the record straight andI thank him to this day.

(57:43):
That was tough for me toswallow.
The very first day I walked, orone of the first days I walk in
one of those older guys he's notthere anymore, obviously he
comes up to me and say hey, youknow, I heard you hung out with
so-and-so and he's referring toa guy that raised me, he
protected me, he helped mepretty much my whole childhood.

(58:06):
He goes oh yeah, he's a pieceof shit and I'm like dude, if he
breaks the law, handle it.
But like, really, where's allthat anger come from?
Right, you don't know this dude.
This dude is a hundred timesmore cooler than you are.
I'll tell you that right now.
Yeah, and I that really they.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
It really alienated me at first yeah, it's hard to
separate again, if you're boyscott especially, it's hard to
separate that just becausesomebody commits a crime doesn't
mean they're a bad person.
That's a hard concept for somepeople to swallow.
And I'm like listen, I knowsome dudes that have done some
dumb stuff.
They'll tell you did some dumbstuff.

(58:46):
Either they were high when theydid it, desperate when they did
it.
They're not bad people, theyjust got caught up and did some
dumb stuff.
And they they own it.
And guess what?
Every bad thing I've ever done,any stupid thing I've ever done
, has made me a better person.
And I think that's the same wayto look at some people that you

(59:06):
would call a piece of shit.
Um, now do I think there aresome heinous people, some evil
people out there, for sure, forsure.
One of my buddies on thedepartment, matt pierce.
He had a absolute piece of shitguy that shot him up like seven
times and tried to do anexecution shot.

(59:27):
Now, luckily god had his back.
I mean literally stood over himwhile he was down and out.
After he'd been shot up by thesame guy, tried to do an
execution shot to the face.
You tell me how he didn't diefrom that that bullet traveled
around his face and then out hisback instead of going through
like you would think.
And so there is some evilpeople out there, for sure, but

(59:52):
a lot of.
I would say.
The majority of the things wedeal with is just people a
victim of circumstance.
You think that's?

Speaker 2 (59:59):
right, my wife taught me and uh no, she didn't teach
me, but she always reiteratesthis.
She says no matter what peopleare doing, or their attitude, or
their hatred, it's coming fromsomewhere.
She said, let's just point outmatt you are, you are angry,
young man, because it came fromsomewhere and if you can see
that and understand that you I'mnot saying you're going to have

(01:00:19):
to hug every dangerous personout there, but you look at it a
little bit differently.
Okay, they're not mad at me,they're mad at this uniform.
They're not hating mepersonally, but it's coming from
somewhere and you got it at theend of the day.
So it helps.
You look at people a little bitsomewhere and image you got at
the end of the day, so it helpsyou look at people a little time
.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
Yep, let me get this idiot real quick.
Uh, oh, yeah, you're goodbrother.
Yeah, for the for those outthere listening um, we were
talking with, uh, detective mattthornton and, um, we are
discussing what makes policegood or bad and and and the
things that factor in behindthat.
But, matt, besides, you knowone of the things I want to

(01:00:59):
point out for those that canonly hear this they don't
actually see the, the clips andstuff like that is one.
We really appreciate youwearing a detroit tiger shirt
again no, no, no, no, no, I'msorry.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
There you go da.
That's one of my guy's clothinglines.
He's A.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
He had good influence .

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
I'll tell you that he had the best influence, he
straight stole that D right offthe bat.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
That's the best Detroit Tigers D I've seen in a
long time.
I like it.
I'm glad that you'rerepresenting.
It's nice of you Honored and Iwas surprised you did not wear
your wife's shirt today.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Not today.
No, I think that was at the atthe laundromat right now.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
So if you guys are wondering what the hell we're
talking about, about his wife'sshirt um, matt actually had a
shirt made by his wife that hasher image all over it with her
name and, uh, one day he wore iton one of the live streams we
were doing.
I'm like, I thought it was aband shirt, like a band member.
I'm like to neil, uh, who'sthat?
That's a band, right, and weget to talking about it turns

(01:02:06):
out, no, it's his wife his wifemade a shirt just for her yeah,
she made me wear it that night.
That's hilarious oh shit, allright, sir, so you get into
being a cop, you will, will fastforward, you.
You you're doing the policingthing, you're learning, doing
your stuff, and every cop goesthrough this.
I kind of wanted, I want todeal in, you know, dealing with

(01:02:28):
gangs.
Oh no, I want to do dope, Iwant to do canine, I want to do
all these different things.
What was your?
What was?

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
your draw, my biggest draw was in at the time it was
crack.
Cocaine was huge in my.
I mean, it was everywhere, yeah, in my city, and I was when
you're, when you're young, inyour career.
I was throwing on the nightshift.
So, um, that was it.
My draw was, my target was okay, you, you, you find out who's
selling where you go, and mostlythe customers are the ones that

(01:02:57):
you can go and you make a stopor you do something.
But I didn't want to.
I wanted to get them help, butat the same time, okay, we can
get info and we can go after thebigger picture here and that
was my main goal, because thatwas destroying my city.
I could tell you Crack was ahuge epidemic until heroin hit
and then it just turned heroin,yeah, but that was, that was
huge.
My, my city was a, it was anopen-air drug market.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
It was really, really , really, really bad okay so
were you doing that from patrolor did you get into?

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
an actual narc unit no, I was doing it from patrol
and the narc guys just loved mebecause I would, just, I would
give them so many, so many good.
Uh, good good leads to go afterhell, yeah I hated charging
people for that.
But I mean, I got, I got familymembers and and who struggle
with addiction to crack andheroin and and I love them.
They're no, I'm no better thanany of them and I know what,

(01:03:47):
what, uh, how that poison is.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
It's terrible, yeah, it's terrible absolutely yes, oh
my gosh, I'm a big fan of theidea of instead and this is hard
for me to really put into wordswithout being an idiot I don't
think we should just legalizeall drugs.
That's not what I'm saying.

(01:04:10):
What I'm saying is it's reallyhard for me to make drugs in
itself a crime.
I want them committing a crimeand then, if they're on drugs or
using drugs, okay, use that asan enhancement, just like you
would with you know anythingelse, you know aggravated
whatever, versus just assault,like you're using a weapon in an

(01:04:34):
assault, now it's aggravatedassault.
Well, if you're committing acrime while you've got dope on
you and you're high on drugs,okay, let's, let's enhance it.
But, um, maybe that'll work,but I don't getting people just
because they're addicted tosomething like that's yeah, it's
that's.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
That's rough, because I I'm a huge believer.
Just give them some help.
What is?
What is?
What is jail going to do forthem?

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
Right, I agree.
What is it going to do?
Um and again, if we're, ifwe're, encountering you because
you're committing a crime andyou're high, like okay, that
makes like I get it.
But I know a lot of people thatI've come across.
They're just homeless and highand they're not doing anything,
but they got crack on them orthey got meth.

(01:05:19):
Meth was the really big onewhile I was going out, that's
big up here now.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
It took a while to get up here, but it's here now.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
Yeah, so that's one of the conversations that we
need to start having in thecriminal justice system too.
Is is like why, why do we keepjust locking people up for, um,
medical issues, addiction issuesand things like that?
Yeah, that that's a.
That's a conversation worthhaving.

(01:05:45):
I'm not dismissing, um the thecriminal side of that, because I
do think there's a lot ofviolence that comes because of
dope.
So I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
And you can sift through.
You can see who's the actualone, who's just one of the
things that I always do when Iarrest an addict.
Back in the day, I would always, without a doubt, while we're
in the booking room, I would askI know you hate this life what
made you start this?
And nine times out of ten, theywere prescribed an opioid.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
Oh, really, yeah, oh, I've never done that.
I mean, I've asked a few peoplelike, hey man, how'd you go
down this road?
But I never really got into thesource of what triggered it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
Yeah, because we were such an open-air market in my
city that that people would comefrom three or four cities away
to come to school over there.
Yeah, because we were justknown for our dope damn um yeah,
it was bad um, we were like amini, uh, a mini drug store.

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
It was, yeah, supplier yeah, he was the, he
was the supply out there, yeahyou're out there looking for the
supplier.
It's your whole city bro.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, it was bad.
For a while.
There's been a lot of agenciescome in and help, but yeah, we
were.
When I first started we werevery short staffed in in our
city it was.
It was, uh, it's not madebearish.
That's one thing they gettwisted with with.
Small city, smaller city, uhcops that we somehow we don't do
what big city cops do, likethat, that, that uh, it could be

(01:07:17):
farther from the truth,depending on what city you're in
my city is tied to two othersmaller cities and they all
interlink.
Like, like.
We share criminals and thehomicides and the shootings and
the drugs.
Like it's, it's, it's rampantyeah, and so we do, and it's
only what's what I always say tobig city cops.
They like to get on there andtroll me a lot, the big city
cops, and like bro, you've got200 soldiers around the corner,

(01:07:40):
it's four of us trying to handlethis madness here.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
You kidding me yeah, and you have to do a lot more
than what we have to do in a bigcity.
Oh, yeah, you guys have you dothe investigation.
You go, you find the evidence,you go to the gas station, pull
the video, you go, you do allthese things in a big city.
I go there, I show up, I takethe information from the
immediate people and then I passit on to the detective.
Oh, we're so jealous of you andthat's that's it so we gotta

(01:08:06):
work.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
I mean, we've worked patrol level.
We work, except for homicideswhich we call people in for,
like shootings and all that.
So we work those.
I work triple shootings all bymyself yeah and it's.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
It's hard for people to like where I'm at.
You know, I I was lucky I camefrom another department before I
went where I'm at now andlearning all these different
things that people have to do,um gave me good perspective.
So, um, but but in that thateducation-wise for officers out
there that are following thesame type of path that you took,

(01:08:41):
that want to get into the dopegame, and what do you recommend
and what type of path would youtrain a new rookie officer I
shouldn't say a rookie officer,but an officer that's got a
little time under his belt,that's looking to do something
more specialized, like that?
How would you?

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
guide them.
I would guide them First.
Number one would be theconstitutionality of what you're
going to come across, because alot of this is dependent on
good searches or good stops.
So that's first right there.
But street smarts is right afterthat, and that's not always
easily taught.

(01:09:22):
It's kind of something thatsome of them are just born with
or just from their lifeexperience they can get.
But you got to know when to tosense, not just when to act, but
when not to act.
Um, you get.
If you get a guy with no streetsmarts and he goes out there
and he's asking consent searchesfrom everyone, every single
person, that he sounds like bronumber you, you you're coming
across like you're, you're,you're terrorizing the people of

(01:09:44):
my city.
Um, when you do that, you gotta, you gotta be selective and
know when to see a cue, knowwhen to see a key, know who
you're dealing with.
So I would say that's top twoconstitutionality and street
smarts.
You've got to be good at thoseand you got to be quick on your
feet yeah, I think you broughtup a good point as far as
consent searches.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
So for those listening, you like what the
fuck's a consent search?
I can pull you over.
Hey, your taillights out, doyou mind?
If I search your car Likethat's a consent search, I can.
I can just ask you and you cansay yes, that consent and

(01:10:23):
officers are not required totell you that.
So that is a lesson one-on-one.
If you have given consent, youcan withdraw that consent at any
time.
Now some departments havepolicy that they have to inform
you of that.
Hey, do I have permission tolook to your car?
Just so you know, you canwithdraw that consent at any

(01:10:43):
time.
I like that policy.
That's a good policy.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
I like educating citizens and that's kind of like
a trick, that's kind of cheap.
Yeah, you get someone thatdoesn't know them rules and they
think we're obligated.
So, yeah, that's actually agood policy.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
Yeah, and I'll tell you a tactic that cops will use
to get around that they willtell you hey, if you don't mind,
you don't mind.
You know you don't have nothingto hide, right?
So we, we got a lot of drugs inthe area.
We just want to make sure thatyou don't have any drugs or
anything in your car.
That's illegal.
Um, do you mind if we search?
And then you're going to sayyes, because you're.
You're trying to say you knowyou don't have nothing to hide
or whatever.
But what they're going to do isa secondary officer is going to

(01:11:21):
come over and they're going tostrike up a conversation with
you and they're going todistract you and they're going
to get you talking while you'retalking to them, that's, while
they're over there searching andlooking through your car and
doing all that stuff.
Know your rights.
You don't have to let peoplesearch your car if you don't
have anything in there?

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
no, don't let me ask your car, tell them no, the
other rights to know is youdon't have to answer any of them
.
Questions in the first place,right?

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
because you can plead the uh one, two, three, four,
five.
Yeah, exactly, there are somany amendments in the
constitution and that's why Ilove you, brother.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
You know how many cops would want to punch us in
the face for saying this outloud.
But no, do not talk to thepolice listen.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
Yeah, don't talk to the cops I tell my own family
that if I'm telling that, I'mgoing to tell all the rest of
you.
If a cop wants to ask youquestions, you tell them no, I
don't answer questions.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
My 16-year-old daughter is standing right there
.
Jamie girl, don't ever answer acop's question, ever.
Provide your ID.
I don't answer questions.
There you go.

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
Now what I do tell people.
I'm like, listen, like listen,if you're trying to help out on
a case, so you're like, yeah, Ijust watched the guy get
murdered.
I don't, it's not right.
Yeah, well, that's a differentthing.
But if you're driving down theroad and you get pulled over
speeding and this guy wants toask you you know a million
questions.
No, I don't answer questionslike you're either going to
write me a ticket or you're notnow, if you're a people if
you're a people person, ifyou're like me and you feel like
you can talk to people and justlower their guard or whatever,
because a lot of times that'swhat you're trying to do with
the cops anyway Okay, press yourluck, do what you feel you can

(01:12:57):
do, but for everybody else, no,don't waste your time, don't
waste your breath.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
And you got to pick and choose how you do that too.
Like I didn't just go up andany time of day or any general
person and just start poppingquestions.
I just saved it If it wasbusiness if I stopped before an
infraction, it was business.
But if it's 3.30 in the morningand you're from three cities
away on this block at this timeby this house, I'm going to ask

(01:13:24):
you some questions.
I wouldn't be doing my job if Ididn't, and uh but so.
So that's how you got it.
That's how you got to treat it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:30):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And, and and this goes to thepeople that are like, well, cops
shouldn't be, uh, asking thesequestions or whatever.
If they pulled me over for this, that's all they should be
worried about.
No, I don't agree with thateither.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
It's circumstantial every case is different.
Yeah, and I think you'd changeyour mind if you stood over as
many dead bodies from fentanylas as as I have?
Yeah, yeah it's, it's you, you,really you.
You have to do something tocombat it yep.

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
Um, where I'm at, the area that I work right now, is
very high profile and what Imean by that is there's
thousands of people on thestreet at one time bar closes,
there's a ton of bars, there's alot of people, there's a huge
risk for serious casualties andwe have shootings, we have
stabbings.
That happens every year.

(01:14:16):
So for me and my team and mymission is to prevent these
shootings from happening, theseshootings from happening.
Now, that's very weird to dowhen you are a 2A person.
I am a very pro-SecondAmendment guy but at the same
time I have to criminallyprofile and look for things and

(01:14:38):
try to prevent these shootingsfrom happening.
So we're out on foot, we'relooking in public areas and
things that may have people alittle up in arms sometimes.
It's a fine line to walk, butit is a necessary evil.
And I don't mean evil as in thepolice are being evil.
I mean that there's people outthere that want to do harm.

(01:15:00):
There's gangbangers.
You can attest that their wholegoal is to go down there.
It's a territorial thing fordrug deals and they will
absolutely get violent.
We have to prevent thatviolence for the greater good.
So we are looking for guns,we're looking for gang members
and we're looking for all thesethings.
So we ask those questions hey,you know, hey, we pulled you

(01:15:22):
over cause you're, you, you'vegot tint that's so illegal, and
you know, and you're down hereand uh, so we'll pull over for
your tent, we're checking yourtent, and then we're gonna start
asking hey, you got any weaponsin the car, anything like that.
You know, we're checking yourid.
Oh, look, it's a documentedgang member thing, you know.
And then you go down that path.
Those people could easily shutus down.

(01:15:42):
We don't.

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
We hope they don't yeah, and like you said, it's,
it's got to be strategic.
It's got to be strategic, itdoes and and number one, it's
got to be done respectfully.

Speaker 1 (01:15:54):
Yes, and and you know , you know and this is a hard
part for people to get behind islike you.
You pull someone over andthey've got, you know, 13s, ms13
, crip tattoos and all thisstuff all over them and you're
like, all right, well, there'ssign number one.
I'm not the best detective inthe world, but that's a sign.

(01:16:14):
And so now you got to go fromthere and it's hard for people
that are so constitutionallydriven.
Like you pulled him over for atent, that's what you should be
dealing with.
I'm like I can't.
I don't agree with that.
I got to do police work.
I got to try to be proactivebecause we've found AKs and
fully auto, you know Glock,switched up guns and stuff like

(01:16:36):
that on these stops and I'm likeman, we just prevented a
shooting.

Speaker 2 (01:16:40):
I feel a lot of different ways about the
pretextual stops when you divedeeper, a lot of different ways
about the pretextual stops whenyou dive deeper.
I just strongly urge to do itcorrectly, do it strategically
and don't just do it blanketly,because that's what makes us
look terrible.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
It seems like terrorism on the citizens, and
that goes into your articulationas a cop.
What drew you to this car?
Why are you?
Okay, the tint was really dark.
Okay, that's a that's a goodstop.
When I walked up to the car,the guy had tattoos that I
recognized with a local gang,the Crips and I'm being generic
guys.
So now we got the Crips.

(01:17:22):
Okay, I asked the guy you knowif he's still affiliated, and
then I checked his informationin the system.
His license had been suspendedfor two years.
He had two local warrants.
Okay, like, I'm like that's agood stop, yeah, now, we're
really getting into it.
Versus, I pulled over a youngblack male who's I'm just

(01:17:45):
throwing this out dressed likeUrkel, and I'm like hey, what
are you doing?

Speaker 2 (01:17:48):
who's?

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
I'm just throwing this out, dressed like Urkel,
and I'm like, hey, what are youdoing down here?
I was like I'm trying to findsome ladies down here, man.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
Like know the difference.
I need more.
Yeah, exactly, you need to havea little bit of common sense
and articulation on why you'redoing what you're doing.
The reason I'm so big on thatis because I run those
organizations in my city andit's 95% young black males and I
get some of them are thegreatest kids ever and I hear
these stories about so-and-so.
Kept me on the stop, he keptasking to search my car and I

(01:18:20):
know this kid is a great kid andyou just have to do it right
and do it tactfully.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
Yep, can you?

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
mention, like the latest organization that you
went and hung out with Home AwayFrom Home, home Away From Home
there you go.

Speaker 1 (01:18:36):
I didn't want to say it.
I wanted to make sure you werecool with it, of course.
Can you explain what?

Speaker 2 (01:18:41):
that nonprofit is.
Home Away From Home is me andmy partner, oscar.
Oscar's a great dude.
He was in my last video the onethat you produced so perfectly,
oh my gosh with the Chappelleskit in it.
That was the greatest ever.
You sent me that and I was justhead over heels.
So Home Away From Home.
Oscar Parham he's a greatfriend of mine.
We got to get him on here oneof these days.
Hell yeah, brother.

(01:19:09):
He's from my city, grew upthere, he did a 30 year stint
for a double murder that he didnot do, and that's he got
clemency.
He's, he got released.
The most wonderful dude reallyever.

Speaker 1 (01:19:15):
Yeah, are the innocence project or anything.

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
Oh, he's part of a couple different projects, but I
believe it was a state senatorthat helped him get get finally
get clemency wrote, wrote ithimself.
Okay, from 89 to 2019, heserved 30 years and this guy and
you would never know it seeinghis attitude he is like the most
wonderful.
We're going to Cubs gameSaturday.
Matter of fact, me and Oscar,I'm sorry, hey, we're going to

(01:19:39):
win.
Lucky we're not playing Texas.

Speaker 1 (01:19:42):
I beat Texas.
I don't give a shit, I likeDetroit baby.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
Okay, my bad, my bad.
I always see where that Texas.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
Yeah, they're my second.
They're my backup team.
I got you yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:52):
Yeah.
So we, oscar, we started anorganization he did, and then I
joined his team.
We mentor youth in the streetand we just we invite them in,
we take care of them, we he'sgot a story to tell them.
We give them life lessons, wegive them jobs, we get them
funding where they need and weform a brotherhood.

(01:20:12):
And that's why I've been sobusy.
I've been able to get on a lotof the lives lately, because it
goes like three to four days aweek and it goes till late.
So we have these kids come inand we've sat them down street
beefs over $40.
Okay, we'll sit down, I'll giveyou the $40.
We're going to sit down andtalk about and how we're not
going to shoot each other forthis and just things like that
that we we've just started in mycity.

(01:20:34):
It's a lot of the kids.
My other organization, myfather's business, is kind of
that's more of a, that's more ofa biblical based organization.
Home away from home is it'sstill based on because Oscar's a
believer still based onbiblical principles, but we're
more of a like practical, getthese guys some, some help, that

(01:20:54):
they need practical help.
So it's, it is a wonderfulthing and that's where we
started.
I'm going to start doing theinterviews like we did for that
video, because there are so manyfascinating kids in there.
Yeah, it's just really, reallycool.
So we got a lot of big thingscoming from that organization.

Speaker 1 (01:21:06):
Now in that organization, are you getting
what's the age range?

Speaker 2 (01:21:12):
We basically from anywhere from 10 to 24.

Speaker 1 (01:21:16):
10 to 24.
Okay, you got adults and allthat stuff too.

Speaker 2 (01:21:21):
Yep, we got some our adult mentors.
Some guys are getting out ofjail that that are helping
mentor the kids right with us,cause they got a story to tell
it and kids from kids from theneighborhood will only listen to
certain voices.
For the most part, they'lllisten to me to a point, um,
because I mean I do have a goodreputation in my city, but I'm
still the police at the end ofthe day, so there's different
voices that that we can givethem and they, them and they

(01:21:48):
just, they all approach me.
They love me to death anyway,um, so it's just a great dynamic
.
They wait that we have.
We have a culinary class thatthat oscar does three days a
week for kids from 16 to 24.
That's cooking for the layculinary.
They had to google that onestupid what they do.
They'll make the food for us atnight and then when I get there
after work, then we eat goodtoo.
We eat good things, we hoop, wedo rounds, we circle it up, and

(01:22:11):
it's really cool stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:22:12):
Our dream is to get our own building.
I just got into hooping again,like I grew up balling Like I
love it, me too and then Ijoined the military in 06.
And then at our base we hadlike a league and, believe it or
not, I was balling with mychaplain.
My chaplain was a hooper fromOhio.
So we beefed because I'm fromMichigan and Michigan and Ohio

(01:22:38):
notoriously hate each other butChaplain Wells, so shout out to
Jeremy Wells.
But, bro, he was so good, Imean, and he had thick Coke
bottle glasses.
I mean, he was so good, I mean,and he had thick coke bottle
glasses.
I mean he was the biggest nerdshort.
But man, like he had my number,most of the time had my number
and, uh, I stopped.
I I basically quit playing ballafter 2010.

(01:23:01):
I hadn't played and it just itwasn't convenient.
I didn't have a local spot togo to.
That was easy.
And then I just did this latesttour for my military time and
where my, my lodging was withwhere the gym was, was literally
right across the street, justwalked to it and then I they had

(01:23:23):
a hoop and they had abasketball like court in there
and I was like, let me grab aball.
I'll just I'll warm up withthat, and then I'll go lift.
And then, bro, I came back.
So quick.

Speaker 2 (01:23:34):
I was like oh my god, I was like I missed this.

Speaker 1 (01:23:38):
I missed playing.
It was rough at like the first10 minutes of just like a bunch
of air balls.
I couldn't lay the ball upwhere the shit?
But like, yeah, dude, I missplaying ball.
So, um, I'm starting to getback into it.
I gotta find where I can comeplay here in in my area, because
I just never really cared.
Um, but yeah, I want to, I wantto get back into balling, so

(01:24:01):
I'm that's cool.

Speaker 2 (01:24:02):
You want to hear a secret?
Oh, I was a.
I was a.
I was a good ball playergrowing up.
I was a starting point guard atmy high school my senior year
and I'm officially retired Itried to play about a month ago.
I got a tear in my meniscus.
I'm done.

Speaker 1 (01:24:17):
I'm done, oh no.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
I had to go get an MRI, like two weeks ago.
It's hard.

Speaker 1 (01:24:22):
I had to purposely like try to slow my roll, like
and I was only shooting alone, Ididn't even, I wasn't even
playing a game with people.
I was like I had to slow myroll because I was, like, you
know, trying to like do all thisstuff that my muscles just kind
of take over.
Yeah, I was like, if I keepdoing this, like I'm going to be
hurting and or tear something.
So I was pretty careful in whatI did, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:53):
I get.
So I was pretty careful in whatI did.
But yeah, I get what you'resaying.
Dude, like you gotta be at ourage, well, especially your age.
Yeah, I'm old man.
Yeah, you old as shit boxing is.
Boxing is the safest sport Iever did, because all I do is
glide my heart.
My head is hard.
I don't have to do much, much,much movement in a 15-foot ring
yeah, especially when you getgood, the movement is minimal,
like I.

Speaker 1 (01:25:09):
I learned that like you, just just I don't have to
move my head very much that'swhy you see some of these
unathletic big fat guys that arethe greatest boxers, right,
yeah, because they know how tomove.
No, you're right.
You're right, um, okay, so I Idid want to make sure we gave a
shout out to your nonprofit.
We talked about your specialty,um, you was an art guy, so

(01:25:31):
that's cool.

Speaker 2 (01:25:31):
How long?

Speaker 1 (01:25:31):
how long did you?
Would you say you really wentafter that?

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
Oh, that was my whole patrol career.
I was on the street for 11years, but then that's when I
maneuvered into the detectivebureau.

Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
Okay, a lot of mostly violent crimes in there okay,
so going into that, um, youended up your career.
Now you're not.

Speaker 2 (01:25:52):
You mean, you're still technically a detective
yeah, why I uh, I never in my,my pd I fall under, still fall
under the detective.
I don't know how they theybranch things out as an sro.
Okay, I still fall under the.
The detective lieutenant is mydirect boss and I still work.
And then in the summertime Iwork with the bureau when I do
cases.
So, yeah, they still considerme a detective and all these

(01:26:16):
haters that I was.
I don't do real police work.
Oh my gosh, I still get thatevery single day.

Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
I mean, they're not wrong, but anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:26:24):
I love it.
I've never been happier thanschool.
It is so awesome to be in there.

Speaker 1 (01:26:29):
I love it.
So here, I don't know if youand I have discussed this before
, but as an SRO, I would love tosee a registry movement from
parents to the SRO.
Here's where I think an SRO'sduty should move to, and this is
a generalization, guys.
So anybody listening likethere's a lot of departments

(01:26:52):
that already do this ProbablyI'm just this is me speaking out
loud.
We need to know our kids'social media accounts, so when a
parent enrolls their child,they should.
That is a fact.

Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
Hold on one second.
Let me grab this real quick.
Let me shut this door realquick.
Sorry, I think he got in thekid's room.

Speaker 1 (01:27:12):
Okay, you're good brother.
So if you guys don't know this,matt's dog is a little
terrorist and is constantlygetting into stuff, so he has to
get up and deal with this dogconstantly.
It's funny.
I love it.
He's a patient man, verypatient.
I don't even know what he has,I don't know.
There's one of them.

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
Hi buddy, I have a 16-month-old.

Speaker 1 (01:27:39):
Rottweiler oh, you got a Rottie.

Speaker 2 (01:27:40):
Yeah, oh, yeah, he's a fabulous dog, but he is a pain
in the butt I grew up with.

Speaker 1 (01:27:45):
Rotties, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:46):
That's my third one.

Speaker 1 (01:27:47):
My dad had them.
They're the biggest protectorsever.

Speaker 2 (01:27:51):
Oh yeah, Good for my girls.
You're saying the registry for.

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
Yes, okay.
So here was my idea.
Parents, when they registertheir kid, part of the little
documents that they fill out isall of the social media accounts
that they know of for theirkids and that goes to the SRO.
And it's not that the SRO isgoing to be sitting there
checking on every single kid.
The SRO, if they're doing theirjob, they already know who

(01:28:17):
their red flag kids are, whotheir kids that are high risk
for problems, and that's whatthey should be looking out for.
Or if another student comes upand is like, hey, this dude was
talking about like possiblybringing a gun to school or
bringing a knife to school orwhatever it is, um, then they
can go and look at their, theirlittle packet and be like oh,

(01:28:38):
little johnny smith, let me seewhat his social media accounts.
And they look at the socialmedia accounts.
School's got a big thing comingtomorrow and they're like, oh
shit, like, because that is partof the problem and we can look
up so much as a cop, some socialmedia accounts and try to link
ourselves.
That takes a while, but if ittruly is going to be a
partnership between thecommunity and the cops and we're

(01:28:59):
trying to keep our schools safe.
We don't want a uvalde thinghappening.
Obviously that was an outsideperson coming in, so that's a
little different, but, um,anything that involves a school
shooter, if it's going to beanother student, that's going to
give us the best chance,because I think, more times than
not, the social media isprobably the biggest indicator
of any problems that's going tohappen, especially with a red

(01:29:22):
flag student, so that is.

Speaker 2 (01:29:24):
That's a brilliant idea, that that needs.
I'm gonna actually I mean, Imean to actually run it, because
you talked about that, youmentioned that to me before like
I'm gonna run that by thedistrict asap because, um, I
actually teach a internet safetyclass for rich wistocki's
retired detective from fromaround here.
Okay, he runs a consulting firmnow and that's one of his
classes, but I believe that he'sgot all the numbers 75.

(01:29:46):
Yeah, kids that do those say itsomehow on social media before
they do it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:51):
Yeah, that's been my experience and I'm not.

Speaker 2 (01:29:55):
He wants to meet you.
I'll text you his info.

Speaker 1 (01:29:57):
Hell, yeah, yeah, yeah I I'm not an uh, like I
said, I'm not an sro, I I just.
For me, every case that I'veseemed to come across, there's
been some indicator on socialmedia and I was like shit,
that's their life, because atthat age, at a younger age,
their life is in their phone.
Yeah, and if parents and that'sanother thing that us as SROs or
as cops that we can really dois like listen, it's really

(01:30:19):
going to be hard for you at acertain point to be in your
child's life.
That's just the way that itgoes.
As a parent Like you can be asinvolved as you as you can try
to be, but they're all.
They don't have to let you in,they're only going to let you
into so many things.
But one thing you do havecontrol over is that internet
access and and what they can see.
So find out their social mediaaccounts and then maybe that can

(01:30:42):
be another part of his class islike figuring out if your
children are hiding accountsfrom you.

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
Yeah, oh, that is part of the class.

Speaker 1 (01:30:49):
Yeah, as I say, I don't know how to do that my
kids can be hiding accounts fromme.
I don't know how to find it out.

Speaker 2 (01:30:55):
Rich is that he's the genius at that.
He's like he does the trainingfor all the detectives around
the state, but he's reallyreally good at that His
presentation.
That it's easy for me.
He gives me the chicago publicschools okay and I just I go in
there and uh present to the tothe parents.
It's so easy for me because I'mjust telling his doing his
presentation, but in my own way,right and uh it's really,

(01:31:15):
really fun.

Speaker 1 (01:31:15):
so you know what's crazy is I know we've got, we've
, we've probably got about ahalf hour left and you gotta,
you gotta cut off time.
But you and I, when we talk, wecould keep going and go for
days and cause, as we're sittinghere talking, I'm like man, I
got to get back on point and I'mlike but there's all these
other things I want to talk toyou about.

(01:31:36):
Ah, I love it.
Okay.
So SROs, um, doing that, whathas been?
What have you?
What have you learned as an SROthat you would like to pass on
to police and parents?

Speaker 2 (01:31:53):
Let's see.
You have to be a cop last as anSRO.
This is to pass on to police.
You have to be a mentor, firsta uncle, a silly uncle first,
and then you, you, you got theteachers back and then you're a
cop at last resort.
That's what I would tell thecops.

Speaker 1 (01:32:13):
And stop dancing on video man, stop it pouring balls
I'll give tillman I thinkthat's his name that black
officer out of um california, Ithink he's out of cal.
It's either Till or Tillman orsomething like that, your boy
could dance.

Speaker 2 (01:32:30):
He probably can.

Speaker 1 (01:32:31):
He's the only one.
They did a whole choreographedthing with all the students and
it was amazing.
He took time to learn withthose students and they all
loved him and trusted him.
I'm about that life.

Speaker 2 (01:32:43):
They try to get me to do that all the time.
No, I don't dance.

Speaker 1 (01:32:46):
You should have thrown like a boxing tournament,
yeah there you go All right.
Who can take out the cop?
Here's your chance.

Speaker 2 (01:32:54):
So that's what I say Be a cop at last resort, because
these kids will trust you somuch more, especially in the
times with social media.
They want to see if they seeyou as human first.
I don't think I've ever evenraised my voice in three years
as sro.

Speaker 1 (01:33:09):
I can't picture you being a a loud person no, I'm
just.

Speaker 2 (01:33:13):
The kids love me.
My, my day is spent giving highfives and and knuckle and fist
bumps all day and then takingthe ones that fight and we go
sit down and settle it and youwouldn't know how to take a call
anymore, would you?
No, no, not at all.
All I'm useless on the streetnow.
Give me some kids and they'llhave to fill up my organization.

Speaker 1 (01:33:34):
I tell my guys all the time I'm like I can catch
bad guys all day long and I do,I'll be out there with them and
I'll have that car right thereand then we'll go pull it over
and for sure shit, we find, youknow, an illegal gun, a bunch of
dope, you know, gang member,all this shit.
And they're like, damn, sarge,that was good.
I'm like, yeah, but I'm donelike I don't know.
I couldn't take him out of thejail, I couldn't book him in, I

(01:33:58):
don't know.
I don't know the process to anyof that stuff anymore, so
complicated these days.
I know I'm like I, you got toprint out all this stuff.
I don't know how to do all thatyeah, I would have no clue yeah
, yeah.
So all right, sir.
Well, I want to save this lasthalf hour because I know we're
gonna burn.
We're gonna burn through thisso quick.
But guys, matt and I, we we gotconnected through our mutual

(01:34:25):
tactics.
I I have been trying, throughthe Two Cops, one Donut stuff,
to highlight cops doing goodstuff.
And that's kind of how Istarted out.
I was like I want to highlightall we see is bad.
I don't want to see just thebad, I want to see the good.
I'm an optimistic person.
That's just how I am.
I'm wired.
I want to see positive things.

(01:34:47):
I don't want to be dragged downby negative and then through
that.
We talked about growing.
You know, I'm constantlygrowing.
I see myself like always I Istarted to see people were
sending me videos and I'm seeingthese things.
I'm like, okay, there's lessonsto be learned.
This cop screwed up.
Let me talk about that so I caneducate and get on this

(01:35:09):
wavelength of okay, he screwedup.
Here's where he screwed up.
How do we fix that?
How do we make it better?
I don't want to bitch aboutsomething just to bitch about it
.
I want to give you a fix.
You know, just like you'd tellyou know, in the military, let's
say, don't bring a problem tome unless you got a solution.
Okay, well, here's a problem, Isee, here's a solution.
And so I started going downthat path and I think that's

(01:35:29):
what linked up Matt and ISomebody somewhere pointed out
like oh my God, you're like thisother guy over here, and they
were telling me about Matt andI'm like, well, let me look into
it.
And then I look up Matt and I'mlike he's right, that's a good
point.
Oh, point.
So I reached.
I think I reached out to youdid I reach out to you.

Speaker 2 (01:35:47):
Somebody had told me yeah about your face, so I
checked out what you do.
Oh my gosh, somebody else issaying a lot of the same stuff
that I say yeah, so we, welinked up that way.

Speaker 1 (01:35:57):
And now, matt and I again well, I think we kind of
touched on this earlier we don'tsee eye to eye on everything,
but I think our hearts see eyeto eye on everything, but I
think our hearts see eye to eyeexactly the same and what we're
trying to accomplish.
So that's where we have teamedup and that is where we're at
now.
So, matt, I want to ask you umwhat?

(01:36:20):
What drew you to what I'mtrying to do here and and and?
Where do you see the futuregoing with us?

Speaker 2 (01:36:29):
I think what brought me and you, what me and you see
common ground is we may notagree on everything, but we do
agree that there are certainthings and behaviors in this
profession that need to beeradicated, done with and just
gone.
And that's where I was like, oh, I was really, really drawn to
some of your videos and what youwere saying and I was honored
and I reached out to a couple ofguys and they vouched for you

(01:36:50):
too.
I don't know if I ever told youthat, but they're like no,
that's because you just neverknow, like the stories behind
people.
So I got really good reviews onyou and what drew me to start
doing this?
That is what a lot of peopleask me.
I love it and you, I'm one ofthe guys that I just don't have

(01:37:12):
patience for cop nonsense.
I don't have patience formaking excuses for bad behavior,
for not honoring your oath, fortreating anyone from the public
disrespectfully and beingunprofessional.
I have no patience and I thinkthat I think my body of work
kind of stands for itselfbecause, as much as a big mouth
that I have, you would thinkthat somebody in 20 years would

(01:37:34):
come out of woodworks and sayThornton is a hypocrite, but
it's never happened because Iwalk the walk.
I don't say these things and ifyou went to my city and asked
the people, they would.
I actually can't even talkabout things locally very much
anymore.
I got to do it on a broaderYouTube scale or a broader
TikTok scale.
I've tried to do things locallyand there was actually some

(01:37:55):
people that came at me that thestreets were defending me so
hard on there I was afraid I wasgoing to have something maybe
happen to someone that wastalking about me.
That's why I don't do muchlocal and I don't know how to
feel about that.
I'm like man, I got someloyalty from these streets but I
don't want nothing Like I don'tneed this.
So if you look at my localstuff, it's really my family

(01:38:17):
stuff and I don't put too muchof calling out cops.
What started this?
Really?
I, from day one, I never reallyfelt that connection.
I never like like we weretalking about earlier, when you
felt, uh, kind of this draw andyou kind of lost because you
were far away from your rootsand where you came from.
Yeah, um, I never really gotthat and so, from from the

(01:38:38):
get-go I I stayed grounded and Ireally didn't appreciate, um, a
lot of the the us versus themstuff that I had to come and
deal with, and I really handledit bad, like I didn't feel I
felt like a stranger in astrange land having this uniform
on, but at the same time mykids were proud of me.
I had a career, I don't have tolive check to check anymore.

(01:39:02):
I have like a.
So I was like kind of stuck andpart of me wanted to quit.
I had to be stopped and talkedback into from some street cats
Like no man, we need you inthere.
So I stayed and and and whoeveris hearing this, don't get a
twist.
I've never done anythingunethical with my friends or
regarding this when I mentionedstreet people.
I've never done anythingunethical in my career.

Speaker 1 (01:39:23):
Cause, get the people , get like to get you think
you're a spy, spy street gangsStop it, stop it.

Speaker 2 (01:39:30):
So it really I never spoke on it and I took it up in
the wrong way.
I became an alcoholic or not.
I don't know if I wasfunctioning alcohol, but I Hell
yeah brother Booze was a hugeissue for me as I was sipping
some whiskey booze was a hugeissue for me, as I'm sipping

(01:39:52):
some whiskey only a few sips soI, I, I fed that in a bad way.
I, I did a lot ofself-destructive things because
I couldn't deal with this, thisdouble world that I was in.
Yeah, and so the main catalystwas when, one night and I wrote
about this in my book when, whenmy mental health came to a
climax and god stopped, you gota book.
Yeah, I wrote a book.
What, yeah, what's it called?
It's called cop in crisis tocop in christ.

(01:40:15):
Oh, I didn't know that I'll sendyou one hell yeah.
So what?
What happened was I wascontemplating and you know, you
know, the suicide issue in ourprofession is rampant.
I was on basically the laststage and I was about to do it.
And one night in the parkinglot on shift is when it all

(01:40:35):
changed and that's what I wroteabout it and the craziest thing
happened to me.
And then, when that happened, Irealized that I can take this
badge that I had resentmenttowards because of a lot of the
stuff I've seen and to go alongwith that policing in the city
that you grew up in, having towrestle with my friends I'd

(01:40:56):
known for 30 years yeah, seeingsome of them I'd known for that
many years die right in front ofme, dealing with people turning
their back on me, stuff likethat.
It was all just bad Dude.
That's why I couldn't do stufflike that.

Speaker 1 (01:41:07):
It was all just bad Dude that's why I couldn't do it
, man.
It was tough, man.
I don't know how you did it.

Speaker 2 (01:41:12):
So all of that stuff that was negative, I think the
Lord showed me how to use thatto glorify him.
So that was when I started myorganization and that was when
and I'm saying all that to cometo this one point Okay, I was on
duty but not in uniform, and Iwent, and I went to this place

(01:41:35):
that I had to go meet with othercops and I was driving my POV
because I was running late forwork and I was in plain clothes
and I pull up and there was twopatrolmen out there and they
talked to me so ridiculously bad, worst than any cop experience
I've ever had in my life.
They were so degrading anddisgusting, cursing at me

(01:41:58):
because I had pulled over to aska question.
And these dudes, like what thehell for you to?
Like?
Just start snapping on me, damn.
And they come up to me andthere was another cop that was
there.
They oh, that's, do you realizewho you're talking to?
So I, I get out.
I'm like this how you talk tothe people?
Yeah, man, it bothered me to mycore and so I got on the phone.

(01:42:18):
After that I called one of their, one of the people that were
work.
That was a co-worker and hestarts cops playing and how oh
well, they're probably tiredfrom their shit Like starts
giving excuses and I'm like andit made me so disgusted.
Yeah, I got on Facebook thatnight and I told the story and I
said this is, this is somethingthat that, no, you won't, you

(01:42:40):
won't hear.
This was years ago.
Cops won't talk about thispublicly, but the way there's so
many cops talk to people isdisgraceful.
It's disgusting.
This was before body cams.
This was a long time ago, yeah,and that video kind of blew up
and I got a lot of people I gotto support from within the
police community and from theoutside.

Speaker 1 (01:42:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:42:59):
And that was when, like you know what, I had the
courage enough to call it outonce and that's when I just
started, like man, there's somany other things I need to
address, so that's what kind ofhow the ball got rolling and
that.
And then I think TikTok comesalong and my cousins I didn't
even know what it was and one ofmy biggest, one of my biggest

(01:43:20):
influences I got my name a SpiceAdams.
I don't know if you know he'shuge.
He's huge on, I know the nameAnthony Adams used to be a Bears
player, but the funniest skitsin history.
So if you look at all my oldTikTok skits, when it first came
out I was just being silly, I'mbrave, I'm on a job, but I
would scatter in there thingsthat we don't want bad cops in

(01:43:42):
this profession, we don't wantracist people in this profession
.
We don't want racist people inthis profession.
We, we don't.
We want people that follow theconstitution in this profession.
And if you don't get out of here, yeah, so those videos got
really, really good feedback onand I'm like it kind of
transitioned from me doing youknow, these silly videos are fun
, but there's a bigger problemthat that needs to be addressed

(01:44:02):
yeah, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna,and and I I became friends with
so many people that you wouldn'tthink I'd be friends with over
that, because we have a commonthing I don't care if you're if
you're the biggest cop hater inthe world or the biggest cop
supporter.
If you're true and you'reauthentic, you want bad policing
out.
Bad policing makes our jobharder, puts us in danger.

(01:44:23):
Bad policing is more dangerousthan any gang member to me
because it makes the entire, theentire public um, not, they
resent us, they don't help us,they don't talk to us, they
don't help us solve crimes andthey hate us and want to do
something to us.
Um, with bad policing.
So I started calling it out andit just became a thing I would

(01:44:44):
do.
I don't have time to make along video, so I started doing
shorts and, yeah, I ended upgetting on who I got a call this
week for.
You do, brother.
I promise I ended up getting aspot on.
uh, sean paul reyes show oh,long island, yeah, this was a
few years back and, um, I didn'teven know who he was.
To be honest with you, I I knewwhat auditors were, but I was.
It was uh, it wasn't asprevalent, it was today and I

(01:45:06):
and I was just like, okay, I'llgo on the show.
And it turns out I go on theshow on like the next day
because I was on the show.
Yeah, and I did really well.
I mean, I told him no nonsense,me and him he's a good dude and
my YouTube blew up and then itstarted really getting some
traction.

Speaker 1 (01:45:23):
It's kind of like a movement.

Speaker 2 (01:45:24):
I call it the line stepper challenge because I
don't believe in lines, red line, blue line, any line.
We're all Americans, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:45:36):
We've actually had that discussion if you guys are
listening to this with Matt onour thoughts on the thin blue
line, and it's funny becausethis is another thing that some
people have it.
It's the us versus them.
Some people have it it's the.
It's a that, it's a this.
I my view on it.
I don't know if it's unique,but I've told Matt this in the

(01:45:59):
past.
To me, the thin blue line is, ifI were to die on duty tomorrow,
I know that the people that Iwork around will make sure that
my daughters go to prom.
They will make sure that mydaughters will be walked across
the aisle.
They will make sure that mydaughters you know, if they have
a leak in their apartment, ifthey have whatever they're going

(01:46:20):
to take care of my family whileI'm gone.
And that's a thin blue line tome.
It had nothing to do with thepublic.
That's just how I always viewedwhat the thin blue line was.
It was never ingrained in me asit's us, that line between us
and evil.
I learned that through my career.
That that's how some peopleview it and you know.

(01:46:40):
Okay, fair, I don't have aproblem with that If you're
viewing it purely as you'retrying to protect innocent
people, okay, cool.
But then there's that's not howeverybody views it.
There's some people that viewit as the machine, the big
brother.
You have to take in how otherpeople view it because their

(01:47:02):
upbringing is different.
So that's when we talk aboutthat and having those
discussions, and it's importantto have those discussions with
citizens.
When they talk about it, well,you're just part of the thin
blue line club, that's it's usversus them and I'm like, well,
hold on, like that's not how Iview that.
Yeah, and it's important tohave these discussions, so I

(01:47:22):
love talking about it because,in my opinion, what it what it
off as things evolve with time?

Speaker 2 (01:47:29):
There's things that started off a decade ago.
That doesn't mean the samething now.
In my opinion.
If it started as something thatwas true and honest and good,
I'll go in my city right now andpoll.
Nine people out of 10 will sayno.
That that means y'all don'tlike us.
That's the thin wall that wecan't break, and so.

(01:47:51):
I.
It's a hard question to answerfor me.
Personally, I don't like anylines.

Speaker 1 (01:47:57):
Yeah, and it's and that's and this is what I love
it's like nothing has to bemutually exclusive.
There's a lot of people thatare like, no, it's one way or
the other.
No, it's really not.
And that's where we need you tocome to the table Everybody,
not just cops, not just thecitizens Like, if you can get
past the point that noteverything is mutually exclusive

(01:48:17):
, we have a lot we can discuss.
But if you're of the opinionthat everything has to be one
way or the other.

Speaker 2 (01:48:23):
Like man, it's really hard to have any talk you can't
dig your heels and dig yourheels in and just say I'm right,
you're wrong and we're gonna be.
We don't like each other.
Now.
We actually had a guy on hereone time.
I remember one of my firstshows.
He, he thin blue, my thin blueline, the, the flag meant a lot
to him because of a partner thathad passed.
And, like man, I love you,brother, I'm happy that that
represents that for you.

(01:48:44):
Right?
I will lovingly tell you why Ithink, why I think, and God
bless you and why you think, youthink.
But I'm not saying I'm right,you're wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:48:53):
Right, his right was perfectly valid, and to the same
thing, when you explain yours,it's also valid.
So you know it's when people Ithink anything that's based
around some sort of hate oranimosity, like that's where
things start to really twist.
I'm like man, like I don't knowhow to get you away from that.
But that's part of my problem,and everybody listening, like

(01:49:16):
you, already know my fatal flaw.
I am an optimistic person and Itruly take a lot of things to
heart.
When I'm my heart's in it, likefor good reasons, take a lot of
things to heart.
When I'm my heart's in it, likefor good reasons, like when I
get ah I Matt knows he'slaughing already because I show
him stuff I'm like, bro, lookwhat.

Speaker 2 (01:49:34):
I'm trying so hard.
Oh, you're good man, just don't, don't worry about all that.
Stay out of the comments, likeI was telling you that I've read
the messages I got like um, andI don't even know how to feel.
Like this, they'll message me.
Um, I really.
I really care about you and Idon't even know how to feel.
Like this, they'll message me.
I really care about you, man,and I love what you say, man,
but you're still a pig, so Ican't like you and I'm like you

(01:49:56):
know what.
I take that as a compliment.
I was like brother.
That means a lot to me.
I understand your feelings arevalid and it's all good.

Speaker 1 (01:50:03):
Yeah, I always say all right, fair, yeah, fair
enough, like I get it I?

Speaker 2 (01:50:08):
think the world would be a better place if we all had
that.
The boat, his attitude numberone, and then my attitude did
not get offended back.

Speaker 1 (01:50:14):
That's how this world should be.
Yeah, I get cops all the timeand they're like you need to
kick this person off.
Oh my gosh, there is nothingshort of racism and violence.
Those are the only.
That's my two lines in the sand.
Like listen, I, I, I'm, you cansay whatever you want, but
don't call for the harming orhurting of somebody.

(01:50:35):
And and don't be racist.
I won't tolerate those twothings, and neither will social
media.
Yeah, you'll get tossed offanyway.
Yeah, they'll, they'll take youoff by themselves.
But, um, everything else, I'mjust like listen, if they say
something so ignorant, it's onlythem calling themselves out and
in showing that they don't havethe credibility behind what

(01:50:56):
they're saying.
Um, versus somebody that sayssomething that you have to sit
back and think, all right, whythe fuck am I so mad at this
comment?

Speaker 2 (01:51:06):
yeah, that's why I stopped reading them some days
you just started to move.

Speaker 1 (01:51:09):
Yeah, not today well, what it can cause is a little
bit of self-reflection, like I Ihad.
I was telling you, but when wewere off camera that there was a
guy that was, he was a littleperturbed because he started to
follow us because of you andhe's like you and matt are two
totally different people.
Matt only calls out bad copsand you try to highlight cops

(01:51:30):
doing good stuff and he, andbasically the way he was saying,
was like I was trying to copsplane when I do that and I was
trying to shadow the bad that'sout there and I'm I am.
That's not where my mind is at.
My mind is that we need to seethe good so we can stay focused
on where we want to see ourpolicing at.

(01:51:50):
Like, if I see a good exampleand I can share that with a
rookie and I'm like that's gonnastick with that cop, that's
gonna stick with any good copthat sees a good thing that's
going on, and that's kind of oneof the things that I'm trying
to do, and they get mad becauseI'm not doing exactly the
formula that Matt Thornton doesand I'm like we're two different
people.

Speaker 2 (01:52:14):
And I've also seen you get like people will come at
you for even associating withme or acting like me.
I've seen that too, yeah.
So I just say like we're notthe same we, but we agree on the
main big thing, yeah, and thatis that we want bad policing
gone.
My style is a little bitdifferent from you.

(01:52:34):
I tend to run my mouth a littlemore blatantly and arrogantly
and and some people like I, I,my wife, has to slow me down a
little bit because I do and Iand I and I will be transparent.
I do have some harsh feelingsabout a lot of cops that have
judged me and said and not beinggood to me over the years, and
part of me likes to say you knowwhat Y'all are, a bunch of

(01:52:55):
punks, and I enjoy putting you,putting my face in front of your
screen with my mouth.
So part of me and that's maybemy selfish, prideful side, but I
mean we have two differentstyles.

Speaker 1 (01:53:08):
Yeah, and I love your style.
Yeah, and you guys also have tounderstand I'm still very much
employed.
I have a lot of career left, um, and Matt does not.

Speaker 2 (01:53:21):
So our chief, I still want to make it to the school
year.

Speaker 1 (01:53:24):
Yeah, so he can afford to be a little more
reckless than what I can say.
There's a lot of things that Iwould love to Chief.
I still want to make it to theschool year.
Yeah, so he can afford to be alittle more reckless than what I
can say.
There's a lot of things that Iwould love to say.
I just can't, and I think I'vemade that pretty clear over the
years.
But you know, tomorrow marksour fourth year with Two Cops,
one Donut, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:53:42):
I've only known you for about what a year?

Speaker 1 (01:53:44):
Yeah, about a year.
Yep, I've only known you forabout a year.
Yeah, about a year.
April 2021 was when I first gotthis thing going and then
eventually grew it into whatwe're growing into now.

Speaker 2 (01:53:57):
I was going to ask you, brother, do you ever get
threatened in the inboxes?

Speaker 1 (01:54:01):
Oh man, oh man do I.
Isn't that crazy.
I get threatened I've.
So the funny part is I will getpeople that are anti-cop and I
will post something or make acomment on something else, and I
understand where they're comingfrom.
They think it's cop-splainingand, and you know me, I'm never

(01:54:23):
trying to cop-splain.
Most of the time I'm justtrying to educate.
Hey, hey, here's this, take itor leave it.

Speaker 2 (01:54:28):
I'm not taking America.
Listen, I've had so manyprivate conversations with this
man right here.
He does not like.
He hates cop BS, just like I do.
That's it Stop.
Stop Stop categorizing him ascops playing he.
I ride with this man.

Speaker 1 (01:54:47):
Thank you.
So I will get these people theythey don't do any homework on
what I've put out and they thinkthat I'm just trying to cover
for cops and do all this stuff.
I'm like, listen, I willjustify when a cop is doing a
good thing or is is doingsomething, that's normal, but
I'll call out a bad cop stuff aswell.
But they they'll jump all overme and I have one right now that
is trying to dox me.

(01:55:08):
Really.
Yeah, yep, yep, he's like I'mdoxing, I'm gonna find I'm gonna
get you fired from yourdepartment.
I'm like you probably shouldhave done a little homework.
Yeah, like, literally, justlook at the last reel I posted,
because you're probably notgonna get too far in that.

Speaker 2 (01:55:24):
So I honestly think my chief doesn't even respond to
emails that he gets these daysabout you.

Speaker 1 (01:55:29):
Oh, yeah, yeah luckily for me, um, I, I have
strictly followed our generalorders as far as, um, you know,
posting on social media andstuff like that.
And then I, I have reached outto my chief multiple times, I've
talked to assistant chiefs andstuff like that.
And then I have reached out tomy chief multiple times, I've
talked to the assistant chiefsand stuff like that.
Nobody's had a problem withanything I've been doing and

(01:55:52):
I've always told them like, hey,like, if something I put out
there is wrong, tell me, I'lltake it down, like that's not a
problem.
I just right now, everythingthat I'm posting, I'm kind of
following a formula and I thinkit falls in line with where you
guys are at, and so it's, it'sbeen working and, like I said,
that should tell you kind ofwhere I come from as a

(01:56:12):
department that I've never, fouryears, I've never even been
talked to once, really Not onetime.

Speaker 2 (01:56:19):
I think I've had, I've had several conversations.
Take this down, take that.

Speaker 1 (01:56:26):
So I think I'm following my formula that I've
created has worked very well andI I I really truly believe that
where I align my, I feel likethat's where my department
aligns, so that speaks volumesfrom where I come from yep, me
too, and and I, I totally, I'min the same agreeance.

Speaker 2 (01:56:46):
I mean, they've, they've given me latitude and
I've only and I understand theones they told me to take down,
yeah, yeah because every once ina while tiger gets out of the
cage.

Speaker 1 (01:56:53):
Oh yeah, yeah, my publisher and my wife have told
me, take some things down yeahlike um, the one thing that I
thought maybe might get me inmuddy water was the sonia massey
shooting the boiling water.
But I was so.
I was so mad after watchingthat, oh, that one made me sick.

(01:57:15):
I I didn't give a shit.
I was like you know what, if,if, you want to make a big deal
about the way I responded tothis one, I don't want to work
for you.
Yeah, but that never.
But that never happened.
That never happened.

Speaker 2 (01:57:30):
Man, I've been in some of these inboxes from
what's crazy.
People are claiming to be othercops.
They're like man, people reallywant me dead.
They're saying well, I can'twait until you come to my state.
You're going to have a half akilo in your trunk suddenly and
it's like bro, is that you know?

Speaker 1 (01:57:46):
I could turn that around for my, uh, my.

Speaker 2 (01:57:50):
I've always had to tell myself this that I want
change in the make the worldbetter.
I don't and this is scripture.
I don't want revenge.
God will get revenge.
I don't, otherwise I'd betagging these people, I'd be
putting it out.
That's not.
I don't want revenge, I simplydon't.
I just want to make ourprofession better.
And I read I read scriptureconstantly In Proverbs 16, 7,

(01:58:13):
when a man's ways please theLord, even his enemies will be
at peace with him.
And that's what I try tomaintain.
I know that me and you, whenwe're saying calling out bad
cops, we're speaking truth, andGod is the creator of truth.
He is truth.
So I think we are doing theright thing and pleasing to him
by doing what we do.

Speaker 1 (01:58:31):
Yeah, and I want people to understand this too.
I've been wrong.
I have been wrong in some ofthe reactions that I've created
on videos that didn't haveenough information, where I'm
like okay based on what I seeright now.
This is how I reacted and Ialways will say that, like I'm
going to react on a video that Ican't, this is okay, Matt,

(01:58:54):
we'll have this discussion.
People get mad that I will makea comment about a video that we
don't have all the informationon, and that is fair.
Most of the time, if I watch avideo and I'm like, no, we need
more, I will say that no, Iwon't make a reaction on this
because I need more.
But if I made a reaction on thevideo, I will feel like I had

(01:59:16):
enough.
But sometimes I've been wrong.
Sometimes I will find out moreinformation later I'm like, oh,
okay.
That changes things.
I was wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:59:23):
That changes things.
I was wrong.
I think I've made a retractionvideo or two over the time.
Yes, over the years.

Speaker 1 (01:59:29):
Yes, so for those listening like, I've got no
problem with owning up to beingwrong.
We were talking about thatvideo.
I cannot remember that guy'sname or that account.

Speaker 2 (01:59:39):
Do you remember that one?
No, I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:59:41):
So, anyway, I put a reaction out based on a
technique, not anything to dowith the video, because I
couldn't speak on this video andit was on a very prominent.
I'm actually pulling up myInstagram right now.
I will even give that guy ashout-out Again.
Love that enemy, right?
I don't care, I didn't doanything wrong, in my opinion.

(02:00:05):
I gave a comment on what Ithought was proper and I got
tore up for what I said.
Give me one second.
I almost have his account upJolly Good Ginger.
That's his name, jolly GoodGinger.
So he had posted a video aboutthis young, semi semi-deaf kid

(02:00:29):
that's up for debate, I don'tknow.
Um, he gets taken down by thecops, cops holding him down on
the ground.
Um, it's going to probably be acontroversial topic, but anyway
, I went into the technique thatwas used by the cop.
They were claiming it was achoke.
It was not a choke.
Um, I've done grappling for alot of years.
If he was choking him, I wouldtell you yeah, that's a joke, he
wasn't choking.

Speaker 2 (02:00:49):
Uh, I got tore up so I think I read that.
I think that people were, theysaw you, they didn't know the
substance or who you were.
Right, they, they, they weresaying, well, you're just being
biased to be biased, I think,because a lot of because of your
name and uh and you just jumpedin, uh yeah, I told you like it
was like jumping in the sharkand fester water.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:01:10):
I went into the lions then and they tore me apart.

Speaker 2 (02:01:13):
I've had the same experience, though, brother.
I've been, I've been, I've beendismantled thoroughly on plenty
of comments in in in the past.
I just I stopped, stoppedreading.
I don't even have time anyway,with all my business, I don't
even have time anyway with allmy business.

Speaker 1 (02:01:27):
I get it, but yeah, man.
So right now, our path thatwe've got going on, I think that
having you join up with whatwe're doing is great, you know,
and I've been talking to youguys but for everybody listening
, we've got some really bigthings that are close on the
horizon, where matt is going toget his own podcast and his own

(02:01:50):
show.
That's the goal I want matt tobe able to do, because he has
connections and the ability totalk to people in such a
different way, one you don'tneed my ugly mug clouding that
up too.
I want matt and all that he'sdone in his career to to shine
for for who matt is and not betangled up with me.

(02:02:12):
He'll still be a part of thetwo cops, one donut stuff and I
didn't hear you.

Speaker 2 (02:02:15):
I'm staring at them brown, big brown, sexy eyes
right.

Speaker 1 (02:02:20):
So what I want to do is kind of give some hope for
those that listen to matt.
Only he's going to.
We're trying to get him his to.
We're trying to get him his ownshow.
We're trying to get him his ownpodcast.
There's two different things.
Matt's going to be doingpodcast interviews, but he's
also going to be doing a actualshow, like a television show but

(02:02:42):
for the internet, for streaming, and the idea behind it I want
to get you guys hyped about thisis he's going to be talking to
people that have been reformed,people that have been through
the system, people that arestill on the streets and have to
deal with cops and all of thosedifferent things.
That's kind of the idea andMatt has those connections and I

(02:03:04):
can only see that being anamazing show that helps fix
policing.
I don't want to say fiximproves, it, keeps making it
better.

Speaker 2 (02:03:13):
I want to show the world those are humans too, and
they're made in image of God.
And I got a.
I got a list of people lined upthat want to go, so hell.

Speaker 1 (02:03:20):
yeah, brother, I'm excited.
Yeah, in the meantime, we'regoing to have those people jump
on our live streams.
Hopefully, matt, you can getthem set up so they can jump on
our live streams, because, again, two Cops, one Donut is not an
echo chamber.
That's not what we're trying tobe.
Joe rogan's podcast uh, did 20,yeah, did 26 years, I think.

(02:03:50):
Wrongly convicted a murder.
Turns out that the detective umwas corrupt, had falsely got 27
other people convicted ofhomicide all his cases are being
reviewed, I think several, Idon't know, I forgot where he
was out.
Nypd, I believe, yeah, okay yeah, that's crazy yeah, so, um.
So Derek was a great guest.
I have his number.
We've tried to connect a coupleof times.
I wanted to do follow-ups withhim since he's been released.

(02:04:12):
It's just he's, he's doing histhing, man, he's.
He's got his whole top notchlaw I think it's called, or
something like that and he'strying to help other convicts
that are, you know, goingthrough the same thing he went
through to try to get theirstuff overturned.

Speaker 2 (02:04:29):
And I'm going to keep doing more of those interviews
that you chopped up wonderfully.
I got plenty of ideas.
I think this week me and Oscar,he's got this prison pudding
that he makes that the kids love.

Speaker 1 (02:04:39):
Is it Boston?
Oh yeah, have you seen that guy?
I love that dude.
He makes up prison recipes andhe's like, oh yeah, blossom oh,
he brought it out last week.

Speaker 2 (02:04:49):
I'm like I'm on a keto so I can't eat it, but I
was watching all the kids.
They loved it oh my god, okay,so I'm gonna try to get him to
make it this week.
I want to.
I want to send you that footage.

Speaker 1 (02:04:59):
But he loved it.
He's like man.
What was the feedback from yourguys, um, at the uh, home away
from home, from the kids?
What's their feedback?
At the end of it?
The video, no, no, no.
Well, from when you guys go outon remote or wherever it is
that you went, because you're ata location when you did that,
yeah, yeah, okay.
So when they go to that placeand they're hanging out with you

(02:05:20):
all, what's the feedbackthey're giving?

Speaker 2 (02:05:24):
Most of them are fatherless, so they just love
the love, the love.
They they're there to justconnect with us and we help them
out with whatever they need.
Okay, they, they absolutelylove it.
You get, you, gotta you.
The hardest part about our cityis like a lot of them don't
have a ride to get there, so I'mmy phone is blowing up.
That's why it's hard for me toget the messages.
I get hundreds because kidsjust want to get there, they
just want to be a part of it.

(02:05:44):
They love it, they absolutelylove it okay, I'm, I'm actually
pulling up.

Speaker 1 (02:05:50):
I had a guy on my podcast named robert walsh.
He's with next metropolitan.
Okay, this is anothernon-profit.
It sounds like it's similar towhat y'all do, um, and one of
the things that he does is theygive suits and Nikes, jordans,

(02:06:10):
suits and Jordans at the end oftheir little program that they
do for these.
You know, young male, I thinkit's like 12 to 18 is their
window, but teach them like Idon't know another way to say it
, so don't kill me.
Out there.
Woke people, man etiquette.
They teach them how I don'tknow another way to say it, so
don't kill me.
Out there.
Woke people, man etiquette.
They teach them how to be men.

Speaker 2 (02:06:32):
Yeah, there's we got.
We work with one in our area.
I believe it's called thegentlemen's club.
My wife actually asked if thatwas a strip club or something
that was.
It's on our, it's on oursponsorship post.
Right now I teach young boys.
I love that concept.

Speaker 1 (02:06:47):
Yeah, so he.
Yeah, so he's a Sarge atArlington PD, but he runs this
non-profit Nex Metropolitan andit's nexmetropolitanorg and I
had him on the podcast.
He's a great dude, but that'swhat they do like.
That's part of the program.
If you get through it all, youget a pair of Jordans and you

(02:07:08):
get a suit.
Oh my gosh, right, like it'samazing.
Don't get better than that,yeah.
So I was like this is reallycool and I've been meaning to do
a follow-up to have him on, butmaybe putting you two together
and getting home, away from homeand next back to Metropolitan
together together you guys havethe same mission, it seems like,
so that'd be very cool it'sactually what I want.

Speaker 2 (02:07:26):
My wedding suit me some with some jordan I want
them.

Speaker 1 (02:07:30):
Flint 13s.
Listen, if anybody's listening.
That is my favorite pair ofjordans.
I can't find them for less thanlike 400.
I ain't spending that type ofmoney.
If you got some connection tosome flint 13s, I want to text.

Speaker 2 (02:07:42):
Text me your size and text me a picture.
I got a hookup, do you?
Do you?
I don't care if they're fake.

Speaker 1 (02:07:48):
Text it to me, I got you, brother, my man Very cool,
all right.
Well, we are at your cutofftime, sir, and I know, that
people are going to want to hearmore from you, but is there
anything that we didn't touch onthat you want to get out there
before we end this?

Speaker 2 (02:08:10):
Just that.
We need support like the like,the, the, the mission.
We need your pages to be a lotlike, like, blow up and everyone
needs.
You need to be household nameand what we do, um, needs to be,
uh, more common, because I gettired of people being shocked
that we're the ones doing it.
I want it to be, I want it tobe common, I want that's a good
point.

Speaker 1 (02:08:28):
Yeah, it is weird to me when I hear people they're
like, man, there's nobody outthere doing what you guys do and
I'm like, yeah, I get that allthe time I'm like man it's.

Speaker 2 (02:08:36):
It should be yeah, I don't want people to follow us.
I want more people to do whatwe do.
Like dominic iso is anotherdude.
I'll give a shout out, you ashout out.

Speaker 1 (02:08:46):
I don't agree with his approach.
All the time he's a little,he's way more.
Even if I wasn't a cop like I'm, like bro, I can't I could
never say what you just said,like he goes hard.

Speaker 2 (02:08:58):
I have belly laughs so many times watching his stuff
.
I watch him almost every day.

Speaker 1 (02:09:02):
I love Izzo.

Speaker 2 (02:09:03):
He comes right by where I'm at yes, he knows my
city well he shouted me out alot in his videos too, and I
appreciate the man, does he?

Speaker 1 (02:09:09):
yeah, oh yeah yeah, I talked to iso.
We, we chat on the phone and,um, he's even.
He's even busted my balls forsome of the stuff I've put out
saying you know like but he, he,and this is what I love about
iso.
He called me up.
He's like hey, I I took one ofyour videos.
He's like I'm kind of going atyou a little bit, but this is
what I love about iso.
He called me up.
He's like hey, I I took one ofyour videos.
He's like I'm kind of going atyou a little bit, but this is

(02:09:31):
where I'm coming from and I'mlike I actually heard that one
I'm like dude, I am totally fine, yeah, yeah he was right I
think I was listening to thelive when he was actually doing
that yeah, he was, he didn't doit.

Speaker 2 (02:09:42):
He did it like in uh, like a brother.
Yes, he didn't smear you, noexactly.
He made it clear that he lovedyou.
Yep, yeah, and I told him.

Speaker 1 (02:09:52):
I called him up.
I was like man, he's like yougot me good, bro, and he's like
you're not mad.
I was like, no, I want to bemad.
I was like you're not wrong.
I was like like you know how itis.
I'm limited.
I can only do so much and Isaid so I love that dude yeah
really is a good dude, and uh,don't be a dancing tiktok cop oh

(02:10:12):
no, I'm with him on that.

Speaker 2 (02:10:14):
I'm with him on that he will destroy you.

Speaker 1 (02:10:17):
So, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So well, all right, brother, Iknow you got the wifey.
Thank you so much for finallyhaving the time to do this, and
I'm not saying that in acondescending way.
I'm saying that because I knowyou're out there doing good
things yeah, I'm a.

Speaker 2 (02:10:32):
I love this.
I will do this more often.
I just got, I need a lot ofheads up with my schedule and
it's a I love the show.

Speaker 1 (02:10:39):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (02:10:45):
I love it.
The same name, Detective MattThornton.
Okay, my website is mfbyouthorgfor our organizations and Home
Away From Home.
I should know that by heart.
I believe it's Home Away FromHome.
I'd love to get that.
Maybe we could put the link inthe description or something.

Speaker 1 (02:11:03):
Okay, that's pretty new, or I can look it up right
now, since we are home away fromhome youth development correct?
Yep, okay, so it is home awayfrom home.
Wait, wait, no, no, no, hold ona second.
I don't want to give out falseinformation because that doesn't
look like the right.
Is it home away from home,drcom?

(02:11:26):
Does that make sense to you?
Let's see, yes, that is theright one, because that's the
symbol.
I'm seeing the symbol.

Speaker 2 (02:11:34):
Okay, there you go, I knew, some letters afterward.

Speaker 1 (02:11:36):
Yeah, home away from home drcom.
So like home away from homedrive yep that's what it reminds
me of yeah, so make sure youguys go check that out.
Um, matt and I collaboratedtogether and posted a picture of
his last time out there withhim.
Um, we were kind of jokingabout that earlier, so check
that out.
It's on our instagram and Iwill, I will.

(02:11:56):
I will get more footagetomorrow.
Hell yeah, brother, um, but no,uh guys, for for all of matt's
fans, because I know matt's fansare going to be listening to
this as well.
Two Cops, one Donut sees heart,and we saw Matt's heart and that
is why we reached out to him,and it wasn't something that we
just decided overnight.

(02:12:17):
But I will say when Matt and Italked on the phone, matt and I
are able to read people, I think, better than most people, and
I'm not good at a lot of things,but reading people's one of
them, and I think we were ableto read each other.
Um, we took the time to do thehomework on each other and here
we are and I think that speaksvolume.

(02:12:38):
If you trust his character orif you're a two cops, one donut
fan and you trust my character,just know that, um, I
wholeheartedly put my trust andfaith behind what Matt's been
doing and what he's got going onand I think it's the same thing
.
So hear us and trust that we areon the same mission, the same

(02:12:59):
path.
We may not always agree withthe same exact things, but it is
going to be for the better.

Speaker 2 (02:13:08):
Amen, and I wouldn't be here if I didn't believe that
wholeheartedly.
Brother, you know I got you.

Speaker 1 (02:13:13):
I appreciate that.
All right, everybody else outthere.
Thank you for listening.
Make sure you check out MattThornton and thank you for
tuning in.
To Two Cops, One Donut.

Speaker 2 (02:13:22):
All right, brother, I'll hit you up.

Speaker 1 (02:13:23):
Sounds good, Take it easy everybody.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

Intentionally Disturbing

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}From Felony Charge to Police Badge How Did This Happen? Matt Thornton Story

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

Intentionally Disturbing

All Episodes

From Felony Charge to Police Badge How Did This Happen? Matt Thornton Story

Dateline NBC