Law Enforcement Leaders Discuss Training, Accountability, and Community Relations

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Two Cops One Donut podcast.
The views and opinionsexpressed by guests on the
podcast are their own and do notnecessarily reflect the views
of Two Cops One Donut, its hostor affiliates.
The podcast is intended forentertainment and informational
purposes only.
We do not endorse any guests'opinions or actions discussed
during the show.
Any content provided by guestsis of their own volition and

(00:20):
listeners are encouraged to formtheir own opinions.
Furthermore, some content isgraphic and has harsh language.
Viewer discretion advised andis intended for mature audiences
.
Two Cops One Donut and its hostdo not accept any liability for
statements or actions taken byguests.
Thank you for listening.
All right, welcome back to CopsOne Donut.

(00:50):
I'm your host, sergeant EricLevine.
I got with me my co-host,banning Sweatland, and I have.
Our special guest tonight isChief Scott Hughes.
How are you doing, sir?

Speaker 2 (01:01):
I'm doing great.
Just call me Scott.
Happy to be here, lookingforward to the episode.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Okay, we've already got people gifting memberships.
Looks like ConstitutionalCountry Girl threw out 10
memberships.
So, first and foremost, countryGirl, you rock.
Thank you very much.
But let's just see for funsies,who all got some memberships.
Because we have a drinking gameevery time marine bloods
doesn't get an account,everybody's got a drink.

(01:27):
So l wall got one.
Uh, tassie rar, that's a adifferent name there.
Vince 07.
Eric walls.
Victor r, kylie rose.
Oh, mama G got one.
That's good.
Mama G talks a lot on here.
Pat Mahelan got one.

(01:49):
Falk Around and Find Out one ofmy favorite names.
And Pravis Pravis gets it.
All right, I like it.
Bunch of good people got somememberships there.
But you know who didn't get amembership?
Marineblood Salud.
You know who didn't get amembership?
Marine blood.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
Salute.
I noticed we got MeganStockburger in the in the
audience.
Thank you for joining us, megan.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
We appreciate it oh hey.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
Megan, what's up?
I'm looking through thecomments.
I don't see that one.

Speaker 4 (02:19):
It's the third one down from the top.
Oh yeah, I see it now.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
Smiley face.
I love this trio I can't.
I can't with this trio.
Oh, I love it.
Uh, andy fletcher, she'scutting into your action, brock,
because brock always buysmemberships for everybody.
Uh, uh, oh.
Brock tried to go for 20memberships.
I don't know if it'll let him.
Let's's see, he's going early,holy shit.

(02:47):
Oh my God, please, no MarineBloods Out of 20.
That'd be funny as hell.
Let's see, first and foremost,if he doesn't get it, I'd say by
the next show.

Speaker 4 (02:55):
He really needs to look at his freaking settings.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, it's got to be with his settings, but let's go
through.
Fiery Soul got one.
David Thompson.
David Thompson finally got one.
Hey, scott Megan wants to knowwhere your head is.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
I just saw that.
Oh right, I got these stupidheadphones on.
I'm representing over here.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Man, that's a cool-ass name right there.
I hope they have some sort ofbusiness.
Centurion Tactical.
Bz Watchdog got one, let's see.
Stuck in.
Got one, let's see stuck in oz.
Matt holmes, blade bladeshields oh, blade shields talks
quite a bit on here.
Uh, the douglas podcast shoutout laurie mary.
Gnomes of nigh, that's a funname.

(03:34):
I like that.
Uh, speaking of grew upwatching david the gnome, if you
guys remember that cartoon.
Samuel roberts, anthony delgado, michael d oh and mag dump
acorn.
Mag dump um.
Classic.
Samuel Roberts, anthony Delgado, michael D oh and Magdump Acorn
Magdump Classic police nameafter one iconic officer got
attacked by an acorn.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Jesus.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Sucks to be a guy.
Fuck that guy, bro.
You unloaded on a suspect in acar because you got attacked by
an acorn.
I got no sympathy for that man.
Let's see here, my mama's onand Steve Ladner's on.
He had a 24-hour ban last time.

(04:17):
Let's see.
Let's see, I'm going to givehim a chance.
Let's see.
Tell us how it's okay fordomestic terrorists to pull
residents over and take cash.
All right, strike one, steveLaidner.
You're already starting out.
Buddy, what the hell was whatman?
I wish he'd just come quick,because he probably has a lot of
good questions to ask, but he'sone of our trolls.
He jumps on and just I wasgoing to say that was a.

(04:37):
He can't control himself.
Three minutes in.
Wow Lofton's.
Like how much have you drankalready?
Not much.
I'm actually drinking someCasamigos tonight.
So if you guys are tequila fans, I like it.
Beezy Watchdog in the house Hellyeah, let's see Wade Lucero.

(04:58):
What's up, brother, Trying toget through all this stuff.
But before we get started, youknow we went through and saying
hello to everybody.
Oh, Shotguns and Tattoos is inthe house too.
We got David Edmonston.
So I'm just saying what's up toall of our regulars.
Tim is in the house.
What's up, Tim?
We actually you might not knowthis, Scott, but one of the

(05:19):
things that we do for ourdedicated is we'll pull them on
the show.
We've had Tim.
We had Kingslayer was one ofthe other names.
He had a legal issue that wewere discussing and hashed out
on here.
By the end of it I still don'tthink we fully agreed, but we

(05:42):
met some mutual understandingand actually gave us some good
perspective on a legal argumentthat we had not considered.
So it was pretty cool.
Yeah, it's a dude, Eric, youcan't do that.
I'm trying to get smokehousesponsoring you on the show.
Man, hey, listen, I've beenfaithful to smoke smoke wagon

(06:03):
for uh, since, uh, since westarted.
But summertime comes, man, Iswitch over to the tequila,
Unless they want to jump onboard.
Man, I've been pretty faithful.
I still drink it.

Speaker 4 (06:16):
Just send them your blood results, show them it's in
your blood.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, yeah.
But I want to make thisbeginning part about our special
guest, scott.
Nobody knows you here.
Necessarily Some do, but themajority don't.
So tell people about yourself,what you got going on, who you
are, what you do.
All that good stuff.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Well, you know I first of all, it's an honor to
be on here.
I hate to tell people I'm achief, because as soon as people
hear chief, they start gettingthis impression of what a police
chief is and and anybody whoknows?
yeah, see, that's why I don'twant to say chief.
That's why I noticed that younotice your title says Sergeant
and mine just says Scott Hughes.

(06:55):
Right, it's true, because if itwould have said chief, you
would people would not bewatching the show tonight.
They'd be like why in the hellare you bringing on this chief
of police who probably forgotwhere he came from?
And that's my biggest pet peeve.
So, so, uh, I've been in lawenforcement since the mid-1990s.
Um, I'm out here in ohio.
So thank you, texas, forletting this, this yankee, come

(07:15):
on your program tonight.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
I appreciate that and , by the way, originally it's
close.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
It is getting close to my bedtime, just just fine,
but no, so yeah.
So I started out like a lot ofcops.
Uh, you know, back in the dayin ohio you had to get yourself
a commission held um within oneyear of graduating the police
academy.
You know you could go to thesecommunity colleges and when you
graduated you didn't care if youwere working as a special
deputy or you were working apart-time job somewhere, you

(07:42):
just wanted, wanted to find ajob.
And a lot of us started out inthis small, small towns in
nowhere, ohio.
And that's what I did.
So worked in a really small town, a couple of traffic lights,
for a couple of years, realizedvery quickly there has to be
more law enforcement than this.
So I left there, went to alarger agency, about 60-man
department, just outside ofCincinnati Ohio, spent about 17
years there, and whenever I tellreal cop stories that's where I

(08:06):
always tell the stories from.
I did a lot of the cool thingsthat a lot of us strive to be in
law enforcement.
You know, ran a street crimesteam, was a traffic officer, was
a field training officer, ranour explorer program, did a lot
of really cool cop things when Iworked there and then I
honestly I got bored and Istarted looking around and
realized that I was hitting aceiling at that agency and

(08:28):
decided, probably for my ownsanity, I needed to go find
something else to do.
Um, just because I wanted, Iwanted to be challenged and I
wanted, I wanted moreopportunity and nothing against
the agency, just theopportunities were not there.
So I left there, went to becomean assistant chief of police in
the city just outside of DaytonOhio.
I was there for a short timewhen the chief's position opened
up here in Hamilton TownshipOhio.

(08:50):
So I'm between kind ofCincinnati and Columbus in the
Dayton area.
We're your typical suburb 30some square miles, about 36,
37,000 residents, whatever.
But really what's?
What's cool is for the last 13years I've been traveling the
country teaching for CaliberPress, so a lot of folks
recognize the Street SurvivalSeminar.
I recognize the books thereover my shoulder.
For the last several years I'vebeen working as an expert

(09:12):
witness defending cops andlawsuits across the country and
opened up my own consultingbusiness not too long ago.
So staying busy.
And the reason I'm on this showis I sit on the board for the
national law enforcementofficers hall of fame with
Banning and Megan, who's on thecall, and, uh, it's like I said,

(09:34):
it's an honor to be here.
I'm looking forward to whatwe're going to talk about
tonight and happy to answer anyquestions that anybody might
have.
So we'll see what happens.

Speaker 4 (09:42):
I think you'll agree with me, scott.
Sitting on this board watchingwhat we get to watch throughout
the year and at the actualceremony itself, is the most
humbling.
Gets used so much, but it isthe most humbling experience
that I've had in law enforcementis to watch these amazing
heroes from around the countrygo above and beyond.
You know it's so hard for me toexplain to somebody who's never

(10:05):
been there what it truly is, andI wish and we're going to get
more people involved with it.
It's such an amazingopportunity to go see one of
these events at the National LawEnforcement Office, or a whole
thing.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
There are.
So there are so many cops doinggood work around this country
that they're not beingrecognized for it.
And you know, I've always said,as a leader, I have one job.
My only job is, whether it wasa sergeant, as an assistant
chief or as a chief.
Now I got one job and that'stake care of my people.
My only job is to make surethat my men and women go home at
the end of their shift and I'mgonna do everything in my power
to give them the tools, theresources, the equipment and

(10:36):
what they need to do their job,and do their job to the best of
their ability.
That's the only reason I exist.
You know, we always say wedidn't invent Sargent's to put
stripes on sleeves.
We didn't invent them.
We didn't promote you so youcould do less.
You make more money becauseyou're expected to do more Right
.
So you know, yeah, we got toget people involved.
I think the law, I think I toldMegan this I think that the

(10:58):
National Law Enforcement Hall ofFame is.
I think this, I think this yearwas the springboard for what's
coming.
I just think it's going to bephenomenal.
It's just going to continue togrow and grow and we need to get
more and more people involved,for sure.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, one of the things that we were trying to do
Scott it didn't quite work outas well as we hoped this year is
get people like this in theaudience to hear these same
stories from the Hall of Fame,because I think it's even more
important, for there's a lot ofpeople in this audience that
they want to have accountabilityon cops, and that's.

(11:40):
There's nothing wrong with that.
I think we all agree on thispanel that we bad cops.
You know, nobody hates a badcop worse than good cops and
when they get to actually hearthe stories of what real police
heroic work looks like and noteven just heroic work, there's
community outreach stuff thatgets highlighted, there's all
these different things, and mycrowd knows I'm an optimist and

(12:03):
when I tell people like no, no,there's a ton of badass stories
with cops, it's just, youralgorithms are geared towards
bad cop stuff.
So I'm like this is the stuffI'm seeing and I I try to do a
balance.
You know we'll we'll talk aboutbad cop stuff, but we'll talk
about the good cop stuff.
Well, that's a whole night ofgood cop stuff.
That isn't them puffingthemselves up, it's somebody

(12:24):
else that did it for them.
And that's what I tried tohighlight and we had pretty good
, I mean for what we could show.
We had good feedback.
Everybody seemed to like it.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, you know, I think I've always said you're
going to have people that hatethe cops, no matter what you do,
those people are never going tochange.
You're always going to havepeople on this side that hate
the cops, no matter what you do.
Those people are never going tochange.
You're always going to havepeople on this side that love
the cops, no matter what thecops do, and you're not going to
change them.
But there's more people in themiddle that are smart enough to
think for themselves and notjust believe what they read
online or what they watch on thenews.

(12:58):
So those are the groups Ialways like to educate.
I don't worry about the onesthat are never going to like us,
because I'm never going tochange them and I respect that
and that's their opinion.
I know that going in, so I'mnot going to worry about them.
I appreciate the ones that loveus all the time.
I'm not going to focus on you alot.
It's this bigger group in themiddle that I think we have to
target.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
And I think we do.
What he's saying is you existto defend we, the people, and I
think that is a retort to yousaying that your job at the end
of the day is to get your guyshome.
Guys, it's not mutuallyexclusive.
That's the chief's not sayinghis only job is just to get his
people home safe.
He also wants to defend you,the people, probably not going
to change andy fletcher?

(13:52):
no, andy, actually he he's,he'll have real conversation,
okay, but they, they like to,they like to poke our new people
um to see, to see.
So, uh, you're not going to getthem riled up, guys, but but
they will ask tough questionsand I won't shy away from the
tough questions.
If it's something that youdon't feel comfortable answering
, fine, we'll just move on tosomething new.

(14:13):
But, um, this is kind of likethe fun part about doing what we
do is just the audience gets toparticipate and uh, yeah.
And then, um, so,constitutional country girl.
She said I saw her questionsomewhere.
Where did it go?
Here it is, and I can elaborate, I think, for her.

(14:34):
She said do you send yoursubordinates to rehab for their
crack ID addictions?
And what she is referring to iscops constantly asking for ID,
even when it's unwarranted, andthey don't have a right to ID.
So one of the arguments Ialways try to tell people is
like, look, we can ask, you cansay no, but there's a lot of
times we'll see these videos ofcops demanding ID.
I got a call here, so thereforeI have a right to see your ID

(15:00):
and I know that's not right, butyou as a chief, is there
something that you push down fortraining for your people?
That's like hey guys, this iswhen we can get IDs, this is
when we don't have a right to,but we can always ask how do you
?
work it with your guys.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah, so I can only speak for here in Ohio and our
law and there is a failure toidentify statue, and I don't
have the ORC, the Ohio RevisedCode, put up in front of me.
You, but I don't have the ORC,the Ohio Revised Code, pull up
in front of me.
But essentially what it says isif you're investigating a crime
, someone suspected of a crime,whatever that exact verbiage is,
then yes, you can ask forcertain information name,
address, date of birth, basicquestions but you can't ask

(15:38):
questions if age is part of thecrime, right?
So if you're investigatingunderage drinking or something
like that, then there's aprovision there.
But it's a provision there, butit's very specific.
So that's a broad question forme to answer because I can't
speak for all 50 states, youknow.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Right, right, so yeah , for all.
I mean, it's pretty much thesame in Texas.
We have to suspect you have acrime and you have to be
Basically in Texas.
It's either on a traffic stopor you're under arrest.
That's the only time we cantake your ID or get your ID from
you.
Now, I'm not sure if it's thatway in every state, but what's

(16:13):
that?
Say Eric check?
Oh sorry, I'm getting beckonedover here.
Oh shit, mr Billfold can't chatin the.
I don't know why.
I didn't do anything with hisname.
Let me Banny.

(16:33):
I'm going to let you controlthe maestro there for a little
bit.
You bet While I try to unlockfor Mr Billfold to see what the
dealio is here.

Speaker 4 (16:41):
Just for Grin Scott, why don't you?
Because you went to a covetedacademy that when I was a
municipal law enforcement Iwanted to go to so bad and you
went to the FBI National Academy.
Can you give just a 30,000 footview on why?
What's the importance of theNational Academy in reference to

(17:02):
our law enforcement across thecountry?

Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, great question.
So there's.
There's probably two or threeelite leadership trainings that
are recommended for for folksthat want to advance in law
enforcement, and the FBINational Academy is undoubtedly
one of those top you know two orthree.
It's basically 10 weeks whereyou you live in Quantico,
virginia, at the FBI Academy andyou're taught by what I believe

(17:27):
are some of the bestinstructors in the business.
It's both physically demandingand academically demanding.
One of the big takeaways thereis you get to network with other
leaders from not just theUnited States but around the
world.
When I went last year, we hadabout I think 25 or so
international students.
When I went last year, we hadabout I think 25 or so
international students.
And what I found interestingabout the FBI National Academy

(17:49):
is no matter where you are inthe world, we're all dealing in
some regards with some of thesame issues.
So it was neat to bounce ideasoff of each other and how they
deal with how they deal withvarious situations Pretty cool.

Speaker 4 (18:02):
Yeah, I highly recommend it.
Two more questions in referenceto that is is I want you after
this first one, the secondquestion, just so you can think
about it, is I'm sure you didthe yellow brick road.
I'm sure you've got your brick.
But in regards to that, whenyou said you got to meet with
other world law enforcement andsome of those get to attend the

(18:24):
class while you were there, yourtake before you went to the
Academy and now that you've goneto it, what is another country
that you think is trying tobring up their game in reference
to law enforcement, just fromthe, the folks that you got to
meet from around, if that makessense, who is trying to really
do policing better in theircountries other than the united
states?

Speaker 2 (18:44):
I can't think of one specific country that were so
many of them that wererepresented, what I can tell you
.
And man, where was he from?
He put me on the spot, banny.
No, that's okay, that's okay,but he lost several members of
his department while he wasthere.
It's very.

(19:08):
What country was he from?
I can't remember.
From a very, very, very violentcountry where they're, uh, they
like bombed, they like, youknow, uh, firebombed the police
precinct and just killedmultiple of you know of his
co-workers.
While we're there and and youknow, you think there's times
where you think man, it's, it'sso bad here, and then you hear
this guy, you know this guy'sstory and he and it happened
like week two, right, so hestuck around for week seven,

(19:30):
week eight, week nine, like hestayed like uh, which was pretty
impressive, yeah good.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Um, I need to do some clarification.
Mr billfold got hidden and Ithink he got hidden when I tried
to hide Steve Ladner from thechat last week and he had
messaged me and I was like, well, we'll try it again next time.
He said I'm no longer beingoppressed by my favorite popos.
Oh shit, I am so sorry, mrBillfold.

(19:58):
I I I must've done it onaccident trying to trying to get
rid of numb nuts and uh, Erichas actually done that to
another person.
Yeah, he did.

Speaker 4 (20:08):
Changing the course of this podcast, of the settings
or whatever, and he did thatinadvertently to somebody else.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
That's why I need a moderator.
Hashtag you guys sit with Alan,but where is he at now?
Son of a bitch.
This is Alan's fault.
Mr Bill Gold wouldn't have gothidden, wouldn't have got, uh,
hidden if, if Alan had beendoing his damn job, so he's like
Mr Bill.
I was typing up a storm alllast week.

(20:35):
I gotta look going through.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
I gotta look at these profile pictures.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
Oh my God, it's so funny Hilarious.
Mr Billfold is a devil doghimself.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Nice, nice.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Nice.
Oh, by the way, mr Billfoldwent ham and got three retro
rifle shirts, oh, hell yes, oneof which I am envious of.
I'd never seen it before.
It's badass, it's all black,it's got these skulls on it.
It's pretty sweet.
So, um, we got him drinking theKool-Aid, so happy, happy to
see that.

Speaker 4 (21:07):
Well, he's just a good dude, and what I like is is
, even though we've he's met ushalfway in a lot of things, it
doesn't stop him askingquestions.
It doesn't stop him bringinghis heart to the game on what
he's seen, what he's seen, whathe's heard, this and that, and
he doesn't just drink the milkand go forth.
And that's what we love aboutthis.
We're not your typical echochamber.

(21:29):
We say that all the time.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, country girl.
See, she's giving me shitalready.
She's like you grouped him withthat douche nozzle talking
about hey, you guys be careful,steve's going to be back here in
like four minutes.
I only banned him for 10 minutessee if he'll see if he'll
straighten up.
I wonder who he's harassing onthis.
I just here's my thing, scottand banny.
I just I want everybody havethe opportunity to ask and talk

(21:52):
about the hard stuff on here.
Yeah, he obviously ispassionate because he is
steadfast at trolling us abouthating on police, which is fine.
You Just do it respectfully.
That's all I ask.
And he just refuses to do it.
So until he does, he's justgoing to keep getting partial
bans.

(22:12):
I'm not going to ban him forlife or anything like that,
because I am a First Amendmenttype guy, but we're just not
going to entertain it.
And when you get everybody inthe crowd against you, you've
got to get rid of you for alittle bit.
So I follow the three-strikeyou like I gotta get rid of you
for a little bit.
So I I followed three strikerules on every live.
I'll let him keep trying tocome back, so we'll see how it
goes.
Harrison brock said two cops,one donut.
How did you get into the unitedstates air force?

(22:35):
They are mostly tech.
People believe it or not.
I'm not.
I'm okay with the tech, but noyou fixed.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
You fixed my light right, you got my light working.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
Uh, yeah, see, okay, in certain things, andy fletcher
, I'd swallow a bullet before Idid that.
Do what, sir?
Don't swallow any bullets,please don't do that, don't do
that tim said oh, he will beback and I will put him in his
place.
Country girl, look, I got thetroops all rallied.
Country girl, I'll slap himdown again.
He's like a broken record.
Uh-oh, I heard somebody elsepop in.

(23:15):
Did you hear that?
Oh, there it is.
Uh-oh, it's Alan Boo, uh-oh.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
He looks glitchy, alan.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Boo, and he looks glitchy.
Alan Alan's on that broke-assinternet.
At least he was able to showoff his retro rifle shirt real
quick.
I think he's on an airplane Idon't know what he's on, doesn't
it sound like an?

Speaker 2 (23:40):
airplane?
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
All right, alan, when you get your shit smoothed out,
we'll come back to you.
Now hold on.
Who's who was that.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Uh, so alan is a um police, texas police officer.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
Uh now he's in the reserves, oh yeah, and but um,
he is one of our moderators.
Uh, does the background stuff Igot you, but he is out on the
road working right now, so yeah,Mr.
Bill Fultz.
He's already amped up.
He's like when he says you'veall day self-proclaimed heroes,
or you've all day we drink.
He's trying to make a drinkinggame out of that troll.

(24:16):
Oh, that's funny.
That is funny.
I'm trying to figure out.
Oh yeah, in the UK they jailedcitizens for Facebook posts.
He's not wrong.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
I heard about that.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, crazy, just looking through the comments.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
By the way, I'm from Ohio and I'm drinking up a
Phillies cup.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
Well, I mean it's cool.
I know you saw my Go Blue stuffthat I put up there.
I ignored it.
I knew you did.
I it's cool.
I know you saw my go blue stuffthat I put up there.
I ignored it.
I knew you did, I ignored it.
I see it all.

Speaker 4 (24:47):
I just keep going.
I think your mom even saidsomething there, yeah, well
where do you think I became afan from?

Speaker 1 (24:51):
It was from mom, Right right Back in the day,
like when Desmond Howard and allthose guys were on the team.
Oh, desmond Howard, oh wow,yeah, don't drink the water,
don't drink the water.

Speaker 4 (25:13):
I don't know if I told you, scott, but I went to
high school in a little tinytown on the east side of Ohio
called Toronto.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Ohio, it's just north of Steubenville, south of
Youngstown.
Yeah, I think a couple yearsago at one of our board meetings
you told me that when I firstmet you.

Speaker 4 (25:22):
Yeah, I was recruited out of the Marine Corps there
so I got to get to the realtraining out of Parris Island,
east of the Mississippi.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
So I'm glad I was recruited out of Ohio.
Yeah, yeah, Well you were.
I mean back in the day, thatwas a nice part of Ohio.

Speaker 4 (25:38):
I mean, it was a, it was back in the yeah, back in
the day, Back in the day.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
Scott, can I ask you from a chief's perspective on
disciplinary stuff okay, Now youget an officer that clearly
screws up, violates somebody.
You know somebody's rights Oneof the most common ones that we

(26:07):
get on here in question so Iwant to pose this to you.
You get First Amendmentauditors right and you'll get
officers that the auditor isclearly on a public sidewalk.
They force ID.
They end up arresting them ordetaining them for disorderly
because they don't agree withwhatever.
Basically it becomes pissed offpolice.
You know, as we refer to intraining and stuff, that's a

(26:30):
common case of POP Yep.
So you get that.
How do you handle that from thechief level?

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Well, I think you start with the officer, right.
What is the officer's level ofexperience right?
Is this a reoccurring issue?
That you're having An officeron day one?
Are they going to be morelikely to make a mistake like
that as opposed to a 30-yearofficer?
And I think we all can agreeyeah, when you're brand new, you

(27:00):
know, you don't know where thebathroom is in the police
department yet, let alone how todeal with some guy on the
sidewalk who's challenging youand trying to push you to do
exactly what he wants you to do.
So I think the biggest thing forme when looking at discipline,
first of all, I'll just say thisI think in most law enforcement
organizations around thiscountry, we are so quick to

(27:23):
discipline cops that it beatsthe morale into the toilet and
it just impacts the culture andit impacts retention.
I've always felt like we got toremind people that we use
discipline to change behavior,to make our people better.
It's not to necessarily punishthem.
Now, are there going to bethose cases where, hey, this
person did something that at theend of the day, it is what it

(27:45):
is?
Of course there are.
Contrary to what some mightthink, I feel like most police
officers can appreciateaccountability when it's done
fairly, when it's done uniformly, but you also have to keep in
mind the individual that you'redealing with, I think.
When I teach leadership classesaround the country, I always say
that it's easy to lead blackand white, excuse me.

(28:06):
It's easy to manage black andwhite.
It's hard to lead in the gray,right.
I don't have to tell either oneof you, gentlemen, or any of
these folks that are on herelistening, that we all have
worked for supervisors or areaware of supervisors who rely on
that policy manual to to.
Uh, that that's how they that'show they quote unquote lead,

(28:27):
right.
They just well, you violated306.2, dash seven of this, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah and youget this right.
And there's no attempt to tryto change the officer's behavior
to make him or her better, it'sjust boom, we smack them down
with discipline and they walkout the door.
Uh, I've heard stories aroundthis country of cops who have
been written up through email,suspended via a text message.

(28:49):
Just insane.
Like what are we doing, right?
No wonder we can't keep cops.
But that's a different, that'sprobably a different episode.
That's not the question youasked me.
I deal with them on acase-by-case example, or I would
, in this case, deal with it asa case-by-case example and look
at the person.
Have we provided them with thetraining that they need?
Because, again, I'm not tellingyou something that you two

(29:12):
don't know and your folks onhere don't know is, a lot of the
times, it's our own faultbecause we haven't given them
what they need to be successfulin this job.
I just told you a little bitago, for 13 years been traveling
the country training cops,coast to coast, and we talk
about training and we still areputting police officers in front

(29:34):
of computers just like this andsaying, hey, watch this webinar
, and that's going to be yourtraining.
We're going to watch a webinaron use of force.
We're going to watch a webinaron decision-making.
We're going to watch a webinaron decision-making.
We're going to watch a webinaron de-escalation everybody's
favorite buzzword and that'sgoing to be training.
That's not training.
That's information or learningcrap.
That's check the box.

(29:55):
That's exactly what it is is.
Check the box, exactly what itis.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
I'm going to go to some of the comments.
Comments here Andy Fletchersaying we see 30-year guys do it
too.
I think what he was saying isit makes a difference if it's a
rookie versus a 30-year officerdoing it.
A 30-year officer should knowbetter.
So, the disciplinary action willbe higher.
And Mr Belford said it's not atraining problem, it's a culture
problem, Disagree and nonsense.

(30:21):
Cops are protected from within.
There are thousands of videosshowing this and I think that
you guys I agree there are a lotof videos out there that we
find out that the cop neverfaced discipline or nothing
significant when they could havebeen fired or even charged.

(30:42):
In some cases that does happen.
Significant when, when theycould have been fired or even
charged in some cases that doeshappen.
But what you don't see is in,just like I've told you guys on
the show, even just at my owndepartment alone, every year
there has been officers fired,charged or convicted.
Every single year that I'vebeen here, Um, and that's.
It's not just one a year, it'sbeen multiple.

(31:03):
Some years it's been three orfour one year.
It's like it varies, but everyyear that's.
It's not just one a year, it'sbeen multiple.
Some years it's been three orfour one year.
It's like it varies, but everyyear that's just that one
department.
So it happens all the time.
You just never hear about it.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
So I I think it just depends on your view you know, I
tell you too, I and you and Iapologize if you brought this up
before, but and I'll just usemy state as an example I'm going
to give, just give you somewhole numbers 1800 hours to be a
barber.
1500 hours to be acosmetologist about 740 hours be

(31:34):
a police officer Right now youlook at that number across the
country and you're going to seesimilar numbers, similar results
.
Yet Look at the and again, thisis nothing against any one of
those professions, right?
But when you look at, when youlook at the, the, the number of
hours that it takes to do thisjob, right, the only people that
can legally take a life rightOf a of another citizen, that's

(31:59):
a lot of power that comes withthat.
And we're giving them 740 ishhours of training.
And then, if we do anymandatory training, we're going
to put you in front of acomputer screen for 16 or 24
hours a year and that's it.
Yeah, we have officers who arejust they're out on the street
and they're not prepared to dealwith the realities that that

(32:20):
they face.
And, um, you know, there arefolks who think that we just,
you know, flip a switch andwe're going to make the right
decision every single time.
And that's just, that's not.
That's not how human, humannature works.
It's just, it's not that easy.
But again and don't.
And you know, one of thequestions should be well then,
how many hours did you have?
And the answer is I can't giveyou that.

(32:40):
I can't give you that answer.
I can tell you that $740,000 or$800,000 or $1,000 is still
significantly lower than a lotof other jobs again across the
country.
When you look at that.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah, mr Belfort said violations of rights are the
same over and over, coast tocoast, all levels understanding
what trespass laws are, what theFourth Amendment is, and basics
.
Ego policing is cultural and Iagree with him on the ego,
especially to the point where Iwork, which we don't mention

(33:18):
where I work.
But we have created an ego classto describe the scientific
reasons behind it the part ofyour brain that you're thinking
with, when you're thinkinglogically and you're trying to
work through something whereyou'll tend to de-escalate
things and process things whereyou'd want to, versus where

(33:39):
you're thinking with the wrongpart of your brain, the amygdala
and stuff like that and you'rethinking emotionally the wrong
part of your brain, the amygdalaand stuff like that and you're
thinking emotionally andtypically.
And, scott, you tell me ifyou've seen the same.
But every time we see thesecops that get themselves into
trouble, there's that switch.
They were thinking clearlylogically, then all of a sudden
they start thinking emotionallyand when that emotional hijack
takes over, it's like they don'trecognize it and there's nobody

(34:04):
training our officers on thatswitch.
So we're noticing a deficiency.
There's obviously a deficiencythere, so we need to fix it, you
know the sudden onset of acutestress really affects
decision-making, right.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
And again, when you look at the kind of training
that we're giving policeofficers, again, when you look
at the kind of training thatwe're giving police officers,
we're not giving them enoughtraining where you're increasing
heart rate, blood pressure,pulse, breathing, all that and
then making them make decisionsin those moments.
Right, we use Andy Griffith andBarney Fife.

(34:42):
Now, some of your listeners aregoing to be have to Google Andy
Griffith show, okay, and Irespect that.
But right, if you, if you lookup, if you, if you've seen the
Andy Griffith show, and whileit's, while it's a fictional TV
show, andy brain and Barneybrain, right, andy was always
able to just handle everythingwith precision and he never had

(35:03):
to raise his voice, he wasalways smooth and you know no
big deal.
And then Barney was all right,all scatterbrained, everything,
everything amped him up and gothim excited and got him fired up
and he didn't know how tocontrol that.
Right now I'm not making excusesfor some, because there are
some out there who you know, nomatter what you do, they just,

(35:25):
they just can't turn it off.
But you look at the experiencebetween Andy and Barney, right,
you look at the experiencelevels in your agencies.
Right?
If I take a brand new policeofficer for six months on the
job and I put him in a highstress critical incident, he or
she is most likely going toperform differently at six
months on the job than asix-year veteran.
Right, going to performdifferently at six months on the

(35:46):
job than a six-year veteran.
Right, if I take a six-monthofficer who's worked in a let's
call it low crime area and allof a sudden now I put him or her
in a high-stress criticalincident moment, they're going
to perform different thansomeone who deals with the
critical incidents all the time.
Right, the further you'reremoved from violence, the more
likely you're to think it's notgoing to happen to me, and the

(36:07):
further and further and furtherand further and further it gets.
Then, when these situationshappen, boom.
Now you sometimes see theseoverreactions, or what some
might call an overreaction, tothese stressful situations.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
Right Because they haven't practiced it, you lose
it, and so I'm going to addressPatrick True Love's comment.
I don't like the excuse aboutmoney and training.
Some stuff needs to be set instone as the same training, no
matter where you workindefinitely need longer
training, this is our point.
I agree 100%.
This is our point.
But when you work in a smallcity and the last time you

(36:41):
touched anything about the FirstAmendment and your right to
video record on a publicsidewalk was the Academy and you
finally face your first timeFirst Amendment auditor four
years later because it's a smalltown and that shit goes on
there, yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Well, you know, most agencies in America are less
than 20 people.
Right, you know, I, in fact Iwas teaching a class I'll never
forget.
I was teaching a class in texasand there was probably 250
people in in the room and I wasteaching a class that typically
doesn't attract chiefs, and Iwas going around the room how

(37:17):
many of you here patrol, howmany of your supervisors?
Any chiefs in the room?
And I was ready to move on andone hand went in the air and I
said, oh, chief, thanks forbeing here.
I don't get many chiefs in thisclass.
I said, um, how big is yourdepartment?
Where are you from?
And he went yep.
And I went, what's that?
And he goes, you're looking atit Like he was it.
He was a one man show.
He was the only officer in thattown.

(37:39):
Holy shit, right, yeah, and,and you, you know, and you get
around this country, you, youfind out real quick when you get
outside of these, these, these,these, these urban areas, it
gets rural real fast in america,real fast that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Um sorry, my internet like popped out for a second
and then popped right back in,dropped my youtube channel over
here.
Um so uh, andy fletcher saidwhen told the law by citizens
with statute number and theyrefuse to even look as a culture
problem and I I would agreelike that's bullshit.
If somebody specifically callsout a direct law number to me,

(38:16):
I'm like, oh like, even in myown head as a cop, I'm like, oh
fuck, maybe they know something,I don't, so let me go check
this out.
Like that's an ego issue.
Go ahead Banning.

Speaker 4 (38:25):
I want to address one of these.
Tim put up a good question onthere Speaking about an elderly
lady that got stopped andthere's four or five police cars
with them, a WTF or WTH,whatever he said.
I can speak on that on on somethings that happened that I've
seen in my career and this isgoing to sound lazy, but this it
is what it is.

(38:45):
Depending on the time of daycops eat, they got to pick an
hour in there within their 12hour shift.
It could be that they're a bigenough shift to where three to
four can go, because there'seight or nine on patrol and they
can get everybody knocked out.
And one of their motivatorsthat's going to lunch with them
decides to either pop traffic onthe way and they're all on

(39:07):
their way to lunch and they'relike crap, we can't go till
Officer Schmuckatelli is donewith the stop and they all pull
over and put on their backflashing lights and they're
sitting in their cars waitingfor Schmuckatelli to finish up
his freaking traffic stop.
Then they clear and they pullinto IHOP McDonald's, pick your
flavor and then they're done.
However, there's another twistto that.
Dispatch will receiveinformation about a larger crime

(39:30):
, something that occurred to avictim putting out a vehicle
description enough for anofficer to believe that he has
probable cause enough to stop areasonable suspicion, enough to
stop this vehicle andinvestigate.
And if it's a horrible crime towhere you may need some more
officers to pull over, they getup there, identify same exact
car However it's not them andthen they all clear if it's

(39:53):
somebody with a weapon orsomething like that and backup
may come.
And I can understand that 100%,being a supervisor running the
agency on the side of patrol.
Hearing that man, you had Xamount of officers on a traffic
stop.
I'm going to look into why didwe have that?
It usually pans out in the end,but if it doesn't, it's a
training issue and we get thattrained out and, scott, I would
love your opinion on that.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
Well, thanks, how many times have we been
dispatched to a call for serviceor we've been alerted to a
situation that's unfolding, andwe get there and it's absolutely
nothing anywhere close to howthat call came out, right?
Uh, that person in the blue, inthe blue Buick, just threatened

(40:37):
me with a gun, and that's theinformation you have.
So guess what?
Four or five cops get there andthen you get the car pulled
over and you find out it'snothing more than a uh, uh, you,
more than some dispute over aparking space or something, and
that, unfortunately, in myexperience that's happened more
times than I care to admit wherewe thought we were being
dispatched for one thing andthen it ends up being something

(40:57):
completely, completely different, and sometimes even unfounded.
Right, and you got this.
You think about these, these,um, these swatting issues right
now that are going on around thecountry, right where people are
legit calling in, these, thesebogus calls, deploying all these
resources.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
So, yeah, that's it, but you're spot on you gotta
gotta highlight this, mrbillfold calling out some marine
jargon going on there oh, Icould used the terminology
shitbird, but I decided not tosay that, even though I just
said it.
Trey was on for a second.
I think he's just showing us.
Hey, I would be on, but I'mbabysitting my own child again.

(41:36):
I was going to say.
Somebody popped up and theywent away.
He got his dad's life.
Trey Mosley, he's a Californiacop.
He's our rookie.
He's been, he's got three yearson the job.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
So oh, very good, yeah, so he's, uh, thank you.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
Another service another perspective that we have
california yep, uh-oh countrygirl's going off.
Let me see, I am sick to deathof seeing what seems like cops
forgetting that they pull overor call.
Pull over or call is for abreak, like violation turns into
a citizen being tased,brutalized, etc.

Speaker 4 (42:11):
For asking what stop they were asking why they were
stopped oh, oh, oh, yeah wellokay.
Yes, I don't know that for afact, but right.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
So, okay, I understand that frustration, and
this again goes into socialskills with me Most.
There are some cops that usethe technique like I'm not
saying anything until I get yourID, in case this person runs or
they're wanted for something,or whatever it is that we're not

(42:42):
aware of.
They want to at least be ableto see a name, put it with.
Whoever that is, and accordingto the law, at least except for
California.
California is the only onethat's different.
According to the law, they'renot required to tell you.
Now I think the policy atalmost every department I've
ever heard of is the seven oreight step violator Stop, I'm

(43:08):
officer such and such.
I work with such and suchdepartment.
The reason I pulled you over isthis or any reason you were
doing that.
You got your license,registration, proof of insurance
.
Bah, that's it technique of I'mgonna get their id first
because they've had people runon them.
So that's the technique theyuse on everybody.

(43:28):
So then it gets into a socialskills issue.
If I'm dealing with somebodythat I see is going to be like
no, I'm not telling you shituntil you tell me why you pulled
me over, I'm like, okay, fairenough, pulled you over for this
.
Can I get your id now?
Now, if they don't give me theid now, we have problems.
I, I met I.
I met you halfway.
Let's use a little bit ofsocial skills, emotional
intelligence and realize thatthis person isn't like 99% of

(43:52):
the stops, and that isn'tbecause you have an unmet.
Expectation is not a reason toget pissed off, and that's why
cops start to get mad becausethey get that emotional hijack.

Speaker 4 (44:05):
In my career of 21 plus being over officers, I've
only had two that I can think ofthat I've received traffic
complaints over, of rudeness etc.
Of course we do random, wewatch body camera footage, we
watch dash camera footage.
We want to make sureeverything's good out there.
But when you get that you knowofficial, even if it's a call-in
complaint.

(44:26):
In the state of texas you gotto come in and make a complaint,
a written complaint etc.
But if I even get that call andcomplaint from dispatch I do my
due diligence because that'sone of my guys or girls out
there and I go pull that bodycamera footage, what's going on?
And 99.9 of the time it nothing.
But I have had two that I evenconsidered I was like you know

(44:47):
what, maybe they're having a badday, let's figure this out Now.
There was no tasering, therewas no Fourth Amendment
violation.
It was a rude complaint.
But when you're in charge ofwhatever division you're doing,
even if you're just a first-linesupervisor, you take that
seriously.
Well, good cops, take itseriously.
Supervisor, you take thatserious.
Well, good cops take itseriously.
And so I was able to pull thosethose two subjects aside one

(45:07):
police officer, one deputy fromfrom two different agencies that
I was at and it was literally atalking to and never saw the
problem again.
However, I was gifted somepretty darn good personnel
throughout my career that wentthrough some decent training
before I had the ability to, to,to lead with them, not over
them with them, um, and and itwas able to fix that.

(45:29):
But I hear the horror storiestoo.
I see the, I see the videos.
I know there's a problem outthere and and and areas of the
country.
We've got to get that fixed andthat's that's why we're here,
um, trying to highlight some ofthat and and show the goodness
of the majority of the lawenforcement out there.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Yeah, badge 502, checking in.
Shout out to him Anthony,christian, what's up, buddy?
Patrick True Love said butthat's a problem.
The first thing on your mindshouldn't be is this person
wanted for something?
No, that absolutely is one ofthe first things on our mind.
I'm sorry, I disagree with you.
We're not in a normalprofession.

(46:05):
This isn't I work at thedoctor's office.
This isn't I work here or there.
We deal with bad people all thetime.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Last week was the 30th anniversary of the Oklahoma
City bombing and, as some ofyou may remember, yeah, Timothy
McVeigh got stopped and wasactually.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
Wasn't he arrested, or something?

Speaker 2 (46:24):
Yeah, trooper Charlie Hanger from Oklahoma Highway
Patrol stopped him for novisible license plate driving on
the interstate, you know, anhour or so after the bombing,
and he had an illegal gun on him.
And had Trooper Hanger notstopped him for that license
plate violation?

Speaker 4 (46:41):
Agent Danny Colson from the FBI is one of the
agents that interviewed himafter he was brought back, and
Danny Colson is also the onewho's the third in command for
31 years of the FBI.
They created the hostage rescueteam HRT.
It didn't exist before DannyDanny's a good friend of mine,
he lives here in Texas and afreaking great guy, but to hear

(47:03):
the stories that went on duringthe oklahoma city bombing is is
freaking amazing yeah you know,we always said, we always say uh
, uh, expect compliance orexpect compliance, anticipate.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Excuse me, expect compliance but anticipate
resistance.
That's not the right saying.
I screwed that up.
We, we, we say basically mostpeople comply with law
enforcement.
Is what I'm trying to say.
Right, expect the compliance,but don't be naive to the
possibility of resistance.
Right, because most of thepeople that we interact with
comply with us.
It's to your point a second ago, eric, and that is don't get

(47:40):
emotionally attached, right?
I remember when I was a brandnew police officer, a female
officer from neighboringjurisdiction, remember, I told
you I started out in that onesquare mile town where nothing
ever happened, the town next tome, a lot busier than we were,
and we would back them up ontraffic stops and stuff.
And I watched her make trafficstops and she would always walk
up and I'm going to call her,I'm going to call her Jane.

(48:01):
She would walk up and she wouldsay, hey, I'm Jane, the reason
why I pulled you over is X, yand Z.
It was not I'm officer Smith,I'm blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
, blah, it was just hey.
And she was able to establishearly on that emotional
connection with, with the personthat that, that uh was pulled
over, which I always alwaysthought that was pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Yeah, Eye of the night said you are not owed
compliance.
Well, depends.
Is it a traffic stop when youagreed to take that license from
the state?
You agreed to comply with lawenforcement.
And again, if you feel likesomething is unlawful, that is
for court.
You don't get to fight andargue the laws with the cop.

(48:43):
That's what the courts are for.
So in some circumstances Idisagree with you.
Now there are times where Ihave seen cops way overextend
and they didn't have a lawfulreason to be there and they
weren't called there and itwasn't a traffic stop.
There are certain things thatyou are supposed to comply with,

(49:03):
but there are some things, justlike you said.
But compliance in itself, likethat, just depends on the
circumstance and the situationand what we're talking about.
Everything is a case-by-casebasis.
Ids I've been reading a lotabout stopping IDs lately so I'm
glad he brought this up.
Even in a stop and ID state,even when a traffic stop, they

(49:31):
must be lawful, correct.
Rights can be refunded.
Rights can't be refunded afterthey've been violated.
It should be mandatory to statethe reason for the stop.
Should be and are are twodifferent things.
So that's the discussion.
If it's not, you can't get madbecause the laws aren't how you
want them to be.
California has that law, trey.

(49:51):
I don't know if you can speakright now, but I'm pretty sure
Trey looks busy.
Trey looks busy right now.
Trey's got some spotty internettoo.
Everything's frozen.
No, it's cute internet too.
Everything's frozen.
Um, so this is.
This is part, this is part ofthe problem that we need to help
bridge a gap with guys is whatare you saying?

Speaker 6 (50:11):
my internet is dripping bro yeah, I see that,
bro.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
Maybe you should pay it once in a while, if I can got
that rookie money over there heis, he is all choppy running
around country girl said trey,you got that handsome boy on
there, I like it.
Uh, that is a little cutie, yougot there, like it, um yeah, he

(50:39):
looks like his dad yeah, listento this.
He look nothing like his dad.
Wade lucero, you're wrong.
Court is not for that.
No, that's exactly what thecourts are for.
The courts are there to debatethe legality of things.
You think you're right, theofficer thinks he's right.
You go to court and that'swhere you fight.

(51:01):
That's why this is a civilizedcountry.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Trey's on that dial-up.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
He's got you.
He's like I'm going to try toreset and get back on.

Speaker 4 (51:16):
Hey, just a quick question that we missed.
It probably just says paired.
It's one of my guys on LinkedIn.
He's a good guy, His name isDavid Cardoso.
He said what are your thoughtson the use of technology in law
enforcement and how do theyensure it is used ethically?

Speaker 1 (51:33):
And, Eric, if you don't mind answering this first
and then I'll follow up on this,because Eric is all about the
tech, yeah, so I'm on theNational Real-Time Crime Center
Association Board, so I knowthat's a mouthful, but really
that is all the current techthat's being used in law
enforcement.
So when we're talking aboutdrones, license plate readers,
facial recognition, rapid ID forfingerprints on the scene, I

(51:59):
mean just everything that youcan talk about.
That is one of my majorconcerns.
Every time cops get a cool tool, somebody abuses it and screws
it up.
Well, luckily, technology isnow to the point where you can't
fart without it registering.
Oh, banning just farted.
He's over here.
This is his GPS location.
This is where he was at when hedid it.
He had, you know, green eggsand ham for breakfast, like that

(52:23):
is where we're at.
So in that um, technology checksand balances is one is ensuring
that these privatized companiesum keep all.
If you buy them, theinformation belongs to the

(52:43):
department.
That stuff is not beinguploaded to that company by any
means.
So keeping that separate.
Another thing that you need tomake sure is going on is, if you
decide to not go with themanymore, you're not going to
lose the information you alreadyhave.
They can't touch it.
It's got to be CJIS compliant.

(53:04):
That's another thing.
So anything that you're usingout there and make sure it's
CJIS compliant.
I know DJI had an issue withthat, so you got to be careful
with that.
Slack had a problem with that,which I think they fixed.
So I'm not putting shade onSlack.
I just think when they firststarted they didn't have a CJIS
compliancy and officers were outthere using it, so you got to

(53:24):
be careful with this stuff.
You can't just jump into techand not know what the hell
you're talking about.
When you've got license platereaders and things like that, we
got to make sure we're notoverstepping and violating
people's rights.
So a lot of the license platereader stuff, that stuff sticks
around for 30 days and thatinformation gets dumped.
They're not looking into yourcar, they're only looking at

(53:46):
your plates.
So that's other things.
It's not a ticket generator, arevenue generator.
That's another thing that LPRsdon't do, because I think every
state just about is determinedthat the red light cameras were
unconstitutional, because youhave the right to face your
accuser and you have to provethe person that was behind the

(54:08):
wheel.
So those were two things thatwere there.
Trey keeps trying to join.
He's not having good luck overhere.
So as far as the technology goes, that's some of the things that
you need to make sure there'schecks and balances on.
There are other things to makesure that you're staying in
compliance.
That are some of the thingsthat you need to make sure
there's checks and balances on.
There are other things to makesure that you're staying in

(54:28):
compliance that are outside ofthe law enforcement realm, that
they actually check yourcompliancy.
So it's not just you checkingyour own compliancy.
So we've done a lot of goodthings here in the last four
years to ensure, with all thisnew tech that's just hitting us
left and right, that we're notviolating anybody's rights.

(54:50):
Now, the beauty of it is, likeI said, all this new tech logs
every single thing.
You cannot use it withoutlogging in.
If you log in, every keystrokeis matched.
If you look up your ex's newboyfriend, it's going to be
checked.
If you try to facial wreck somedude, that stuff's going to be
checked.

(55:10):
There's going to be a log andyou cannot get rid of it.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
And if you do that for all the young officers that
are watching right now, do notuse that frigging MDT to run
somebody for personal shitYou're going to go to the
federal pen.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
Brock's over here talking about backdooring people
, so I'm trying to.
I'm throwing a little shade atbrock.
I bet I can find a back doorwith any of that tech.
I create complex software for aliving, okay.
Well, sir, you have to getinside the secure building first
to do that, because our networkis internal so you do not have

(55:45):
access from the outside.
Um, I don't know what I'mtalking about.
On that, you may I don't knowif you have huge computer skills
, maybe you can.
Sir, I don't know, I'm talkingshit check your bank account,
eric, it might be empty.
Yeah, I know oh, marine blood'son Blood.
You better start drinking, bro,because you still don't have a
membership.

(56:06):
I just took a drink justbecause we said his name.

Speaker 4 (56:11):
And Scott, if you don't mind, just adding a little
bit to that being a chief,doing it intermittently, never
having the title but helping.
I know you as a chief, evensmall town or big town, you're
getting slammed by email, byphone calls from vendors, from
tech companies across thecountry, I'm assuming, uh, like

(56:32):
most chiefs do.
But what technology trends areyou seeing change that actually
work in the past couple years?
And I think that'll reallyanswer a lot of those folks
questions.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
Well, real quick, back to Eric's.
Eric's point.
Everything we do is is recordedright.
Um, I mean, I'm sure back inthe eighties when they put MDTs
and police cruisers, they werehaving issues with officers who
were using that for him forimproper reasons.
And I again, I can't speak toevery state, but I can tell you
here in my state, accessingthose databases without lawful

(57:06):
purpose is a felony and it's thequickest way to get your
certification yanked and becomea convicted felon.
So we obviously take that, youknow, very serious.
He mentioned the LPRs.
I don't know if he mentioneddrones, but drones is another
just really interesting areathat is literally sweeping this

(57:29):
country.
And here's the issue and again,I'm not a lawyer, but case law
and precedence that's set bycase law is often years and
years and years behind thesecases.
So we won't have drone.
Case law is often years andyears and years behind these
cases, so we won't have likedrone case law for years.
So it's going to be interestingon where can you fly a drone?

(57:52):
What can, what can you see froma drone?
Is that going to be admissiblein court?
Is it any different than ifyou're in a helicopter or an
airplane Like?
There's just so many unansweredquestions about that kind of
technology.
Then you add the whole AIcomponent on top of all of that.
It's certainly an interestingarena.
That again it's.
You know, it's 2025.

(58:13):
We may not have, we may nothave definitive answers for four
or five years from now withsome direction on what we can
and can't do.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Yeah, I'm just.
I'm looking at the chat.
They're all hyping up Harrison,like Harrison's independent
wealthy.
He's a bad motherfucker.
He's trying to buy accounts.
Sorry, harrison, apparently,we've reached our freaking limit
again.
I still don't understand it.
But we are almost exactly anhour in.
I want to get to um somediscussion on videos.

(58:46):
So, uh, scott, I appreciate yougoing through the ringer on
that.
Uh, that's, this is oh, thatwas fun part of the way we
bridge the gap here, man um so,oh, badge 502 is over here.
Humble bragging.
I'm part of the 107 drone pilot.
I can tell you where you canand can't fly it.
Listen to this guy.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
We just ordered our first drone and we're getting
ready to put six guys throughthat 107.
I hear that test is no joke.
So I may reach out to Badge 502and have them answer some
questions for me.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
From what I'm hearing , axon and Ring have partnered
up and they're uh doing theirtransform community
collaboration and public safety.
So look forward to that, um.
As a ring doorbell owner and auh axon user for body cameras
and and shoot, what else do Ihave?
Uh, my taser and our dash camdrone.

(59:46):
And no, we don't have an axondrone yet.
No drones, no, we have.
We do have drones, but not axondrones.
We have a dji.
We have that are compliant, bythe way, um, and we have.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
I think we have another brand axon just by uh
Skydio or partner with Skydio.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
Yes, yep, country girl.
Eric, I better fix themembership thing.
You guys would be set.
Yeah, I don't know how to fixit.
Oh, harrison, harrison gotfrustrated.
He went for the super sicker.
He said, oh, it's got a pair.
Yeah, it puts the descriptionof the uh, oh and.

(01:00:30):
And what, uh, alan added in thebackground is that the video at
your house can be shared backto the agency through axon's new
thing.
So, um, you'll sign mous andstuff like that.
Uh, with your department, and Ido want to talk about the
checks and balances in thattechnology as well.
The police department can neverjust have direct access to your

(01:00:52):
ring cameras.
Right, right, they're going toreach out to you because you
subscribed and said, yeah, wewant to let you guys know we
have a ring camera.
That's the partnering with yourpolice department.
But they can't just get accessto your stuff.
They'll actually reach out toyou and say, hey, there was a
crime committed in your area.
Do you mind if we check yourcameras between this time and

(01:01:13):
that time?
And then you'll sign the littleagreement and send it over.
So that's how that works.
Alan's trying to jump on.
Let's see how Spotty McGeeworks.
Is it working?

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
Kind of you look like you're talking from space all
right, well, so they basicallysaid that their uh ring will
have it in the app and if it'sin the geographical location,
you can hit the button on yourapp and it'll automatically be
sent to the police departmentnice, yeah, um, either night.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
I don't know what's going on in your city, but Ring
cannot just give over, at leastnot in my city.
Like I said, the way that ouragreements worked out, like, say
me a citizen, the neighborhoodpatrol officer in the area will
say hey, I see you got Ringdoorbell or whatever.
We have a program here it is.
You can sign up so it lets thedepartment know this person that

(01:02:06):
lives at this address has aring camera.
If you ever need anything, justreach out to me this is how you
contact me Then they can getthe footage for you.
But it by no means can we justtake no?
no, we can't just access thatyeah, um, so yeah all right,
let's get into uh, let's getinto the videos.

(01:02:27):
So I've got to um, I've gotta, Igotta own my own fuck up.
So I I hope you guys are readyfor this.
So I'm going to share thescreen here.
Share, okay.
So here's the first one.
I screwed up on y'all.

(01:02:47):
I said that this cop fired.
No, no, no, okay.
So in this video I say that thecop does a badass takedown.
I was wrong.
I edited this video from myphone and got the cop and the
bad guy mixed up.
The bad guy actually takes thecop down.
So I screwed up there and thenI did a piss poor job of
articulating what I meant.

(01:03:10):
Okay, so I'm going to play itand then I'm going to backtrack
and explain what I meant.
So, let's go.
Let's not go go.
I didn't unmute it all.
Right, let's go again.

(01:03:38):
I don't know the wholebackground of this story, but I
do know it was for a felony andthat this guy was resisting
arrest.
That's why they were wrestlingaround on the ground.
I want to give quick props tothat officer that did the
takedown.
That was a legit takedown.
I was wrong.
I'm typically pretty happy whenofficers decide to go hands-on
versus going to their Batmanbelt if the situation dictates
that possibility.
I don't like them getting tooheavily reliant on the things

(01:04:03):
that we carry as tools.
However, what I have a majorproblem with is the female
officer that comes up and firesher gun at the suspect, which
was not warranted at the timeand was a major mistake on her
part because she thought she wasfiring her taser.
There is no excuse for that.
This officer needs to be firedand never allowed to be an
officer again, and they need tobe charged.
That's a mistake.
You don't get to bounce backfrom us, okay.
So it goes on to me just, youknow being a dummy, but, uh, I'm
gonna stop sharing.
So let me clarify, because Idid not articulate my thoughts

(01:04:25):
as well as I thought I did, andwe're all human, we all do that
shit.
So here's where I what I meantto clarify the shooting in
itself, especially afterfiguring out that it wasn't the
cop that took that guy down, theshooting in itself could
possibly be justified, ok, so Iwant to say that because I got

(01:04:46):
the cop was getting bashed inthe back of the head.
We don't know what theperception was.
We don't know what happened tohim when he got slammed on the
ground If he got his bell rung,whatever it is, regardless.
So I'm not going to get intothat, that debate whether it was
justified or it wasn't.
That wasn't my point.
My point is not that she mayhave had the right to shoot him.
My point is that she shot andshe didn't mean to, and that in

(01:05:10):
itself is not okay.
We can never fire our gun andgo whoops, taser, taser, taser,
shit.
I didn't mean to shoot that.
That's basically what happened.
So in that, that's just I'msorry.
In my opinion, that's one ofthose things you don't get to
bounce back from.
One of our biggest rules as acop is don't shoot people with

(01:05:31):
your gun if you don't mean toLike that.
That's one of our biggest rulesas a cop.

Speaker 4 (01:05:35):
That's the frigging highest use of force that a
basic peace officer has.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
Hold on.
I got one more clarificationtoo.
And the other thing when I sayneeds to be charged, that's not
me saying this person needs tobe convicted.
That's not my job.
What I'm saying when I saysomebody needs to be charged is
the courts need to decide.
This is beyond me, this isbeyond IA.
I think you need to let thecourts handle that.

(01:06:00):
That's their purview.
This is where they need to comeinto play, because it needs to
be fair and unbiased.
I don't know that we can befair and unbiased trying to
judge a fellow officer onsomething like this Because,
like you said, we've all been inthem shoes, where we've been
fighting with people and stufflike that.
Everybody's perception is alittle different.
So, um, in my opinion, this uh,when I say charge, that's what

(01:06:25):
I mean.
So take that for what it is.
I screwed up, I messed up.
Yes, I own that uh Copvillefrom uh Copville OG.
If you guys know the the name,I'll actually highlight him here
because he's the one thatcalled me out.
He's a retired cop, I believe,and he was right.
I fucked it up and we had along drawn-out conversation

(01:06:48):
afterwards because I just didn'tarticulate it the way I was
thinking.
My mouth worked faster than mybrain and I own that.
I fucked it up, guys.
I apologize.
Marine Blood said the taserbang is definitely the problem.
Should probably have just gonewith the gun anyway.
So Banning, I'll let you.
I know you had a thought toclarify there.

Speaker 4 (01:07:08):
And I didn't mean to interrupt you.
I've been bad lately, piece ofshit.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
You're fired, not getting paid.
Not getting paid this monthZero paycheck for next week too.

Speaker 4 (01:07:18):
No that's, that's just the biggest thing.
I mean, we're human beings, wego through all this training.
We go out there and we havedeadly force sitting on our hip,
deadly force sitting in the car, and you go out there and if
you make a freaking decisionlike this, I mean it's bye, you

(01:07:39):
know we're going to let thecourse decide, but a jury of
your peers to see something likethat.
Bye, I'm sorry, that's thebiggest, the biggest thing we
carry.
Um, that's what we've beenentrusted with, amongst many,
many other things.
And uh, scott, I'm sure you mayshare, may not share, but would
love to hear your opinion on aswell may share, may not share,

(01:08:00):
but would love to hear youropinion on as well.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Um, I'll tread lightly on this one, because
there's a lot of research behindthis.
Uh, the term is slip capturemistakes, slip capture error um,
it's, it's, uh, you know this.
This runs in the humanperformance arena, human factors
that come into play.
It goes back to what I saidearlier too, with training, and
that is we spend more time, uh,not training than we do training
.
And in, in that moment, what doyou?

(01:08:23):
What do most police officerspractice?
More of drawing their sidearmor drawing their taser, and in
most agencies, they practicedrawing their, drawing their
sidearm.
So when this, when this casehappened, when, when, um, when
the potter case happened out inMinneapolis, there was a lot of
conversation around this.
There was a lot of talk aboutyou know why you should only

(01:08:44):
draw a taser with yournon-weapon hand.
Most officers are trained tocross-draw, which is in that
same motion as the gun.
So I'm not going to get intothat rabbit hole, because
there's way too much that I'mnot comfortable speaking about
with this, too much that I'm notcomfortable speaking about with
this, other than, um, until westart putting officers in in

(01:09:04):
better high stress trainingenvironments.
I think we're still going tosee some of these errors occur.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
Yeah, um, actually Vaughn, vaughn.
Vaughn reached out to me onthat one and, um, he, before he
could give me shit, uh, I hadtold him I was like Alec, I
already know I fucked up.
This is what I meant, and hegoes damn, I can't even give you
shit on it now.
So I worked it out with Vaughnand he agreed after I gave him

(01:09:30):
my clarification and he actuallylives in the city that this
occurred in and he didn't knowthat.
So he actually can clarify alot more about this particular
incident.
But this officer was fired butwas exonerated in court to
exactly what Scott's talkingabout.
And that's what I mean, that'swhat I'm saying.
This person, regardless, youcan't be a cop at that

(01:09:54):
department anymore.
You may be able to go somewhereelse.
For me personally, I'm nothiring you.
I'll put that out there.
You shot somebody on accident.
You didn't mean to.
I'm not hiring you.
So that's just me.
It doesn't mean I'm right, butthat's my opinion.
And uh, or, as banning wouldsay, that's just eric levine's
opinion.
So, um, on the actual uh,science, science, behind what

(01:10:21):
Scott was getting into, vaughnwent down the rabbit hole with
him.
I know Mr Bill folds over therejust sweating right now because
he's got such a crush for Vaughnand um, yeah, so, uh, alan said
he met with Vaughn today,actually, so very cool.
Um, we're trying to get Vaughnto be a part of this crew.
Y'all I'm trying, he's the man.
He has so much fun with us andour audience loves Vaughn.

Speaker 4 (01:10:45):
With all his expertise.
His calendar fills up quitequickly.

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
Yeah, acorn, I get you.
Brother, you're good, you don'tgot to.
Yeah.
So Marine Blood said, in myopinion, she needs at least a
step back and train hard for awhile, but maybe have her take
off for a couple of months.
And here's another importantpart to remember too, and this

(01:11:10):
is something I try to remindmyself Some of the best lessons
that I've learned are fromfucking up, and it made me a so
much better officer, and I'm soglad I was at.
You know, my department wasforgiving enough to give me a
chance not that it was somethingthat was going to get me fired,
but it could have been a verysevere punishment and they

(01:11:31):
decided to go with what theywent, and you do tend to learn a
lot.
Now I'll just leave it at that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
That's what I said earlier, right?
I mean, the goal is to make youbetter.
Yes, Now this.
Well, let me, let me pause.
This is an extreme case.
I'm not talking about somethinglike this, but you know, the
goal is to make you better Ifyou do screw something up, right
?
Not saying shooting somebody iswhat, but you can take this
video right here and you can putthat in front of police

(01:12:00):
officers all across the countryat a roll call and you can talk
about right, what are we doingto prevent this from happening
here?
Are we still cross-drawn withour strong hand?
Are we doing it only with ourweak?

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
side.
Yeah, having your weaponsystems on the same side.
I actually think that that'sthe video that created that
training systems on the sameside.
I actually think that that'sthe video that created that
training.
I I I'm not.
I'm not 100 on that, but therewas a.
There was a clear policeincident that it was because the
weapon system was on the sameside and it became the catalyst
to for all the training to belike your other weapon systems

(01:12:34):
need to be on the opposite sideof your handgun yeah, and again,
it might be that the pottercase out of minneapolis, out of
minnesota I, I don't think thatthat one is okay, but I, I think
the one that you're talkingabout may be the catalyst.
You may be right.
Um, but uh, we?
Somebody showed me the case.

(01:12:55):
I just don't have it off thetop of my head.
Okay, so let's go over to myother fuck up.
So, um, let me see, is this theright one?
Yes, well, it's, it's.
It's a debatable fuck up, let'sput it that way.
Debatable, cause I'm still onthe fence about this one.
So we will share the screen,okay, share, okay, unmute and

(01:13:20):
play.
There's no biggie size on thisone, guys, because it's just the
size that it is.
It doesn't let me make it anylarger.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
A motorcycle is flees from police, leads to a pursuit
.
Which way are you going?
Okay?

Speaker 7 (01:13:38):
stand by 16-0, give me an ambulance.
I knocked him off his bike.
He's unconscious.

Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
Okay now, before I get into the debate of if that
was a pit or not, here's anotherpart that I know Badge 502 will
love.
The cop already called out thisdude's unconscious.
Don't move him.
Pat him down the best you can,but I wouldn't move him.

(01:14:09):
That's just me.
I think that's dangerous.
I'm not trying to hurt thisdude anymore and you've already
done it.
I don't know, Maybe try to cuffhim.
I don't know.
I may just pat this dude downif he's out, if I legitimately
think he's out why was herunning?
that we don't know.
I'm not sure why he's runningum.

(01:14:29):
So this is where we get intothe debate.
One the thing I hate aboutinstagram is you can't rewind,
so I'm going to reload this.
Now, what I want you guys topay attention to is you tell me
if you think he pitted this orthe bike cut back in front of

(01:14:50):
him.
So this was where the argumentsbegan.
I say the officer saw a lowspeed opportunity and turned
into the bike last second.
That's what I say.
But other people are sayingthat the bike cut in front of
him and the cop had no choice.
So you guys give me your honestopinion based on this.
Now it's going to be quick.
I can't slow it down.

(01:15:11):
This fleas from police leads toa pursuit Right when he goes in
the parking lot.
Okay, stand up, pursuit to me,because I'm watching the white

(01:15:34):
line down the middle of the road.
Yep, he was traveling on astraight path and he turned into
it, benny.
Is that what you saw, bennings?

Speaker 4 (01:15:47):
Bennings getting glitchy Can you hear me now?

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
Can you hear me now?
You're, you're a little glitchy, oh are you kidding me.
Nope, you're good now.
Oh, there you go, no.

Speaker 4 (01:16:00):
I saw the same thing on the first run.
You know, if you sit there,just look at 12 o'clock and look
at the divider line on thelanes, all the steering wheel
obviously goes to the right.
As soon as he comes up it goesto the right and it was a low
speed pit as a, you know,educated guess on everything
that we're seeing in the film infront of us.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
Trey, you're looking crispy and your internet's
looking good.
All of a sudden, what happened?

Speaker 6 (01:16:24):
I don't know what was going on.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
You got a little glitchy there, but maybe we
shouldn't let you talk.
It's taking a little morebandwidth than what you got.
Bro, can you get some fiber outthere or what?

Speaker 6 (01:16:36):
I'll be using Spectrum bro.
Are you on Wi using spectrumbro?
Are you on wi-fi?
Are you hardwired?
No, I'm on wi-fi.
I can't get the hardwired to myroom.
I have to drill through the wallokay, drill through the wall no
, no, no no, come on, bro, yougot to commit to the cause no,
once I, once I get a finallocation where I'm gonna be okay
, uh, okay, so we got somedebate.

(01:16:59):
I don't think that was a pit.
Well, I guess the difference isI ain't ever been trained on
pitting, so I can't really saywhat it's supposed to look like
it's tapping the back end.

Speaker 1 (01:17:10):
Just think of it that way.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
And you're not supposed to do it to a
motorcycle.

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
Never.
I mean of course not to amotorcycle yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
I don't think that was a pit bro, and my didn't.
What doesn't?

Speaker 6 (01:17:25):
help is what he says when he, when he uh that, no,
that, without what the wordsmakes me can like, convinces me
that it was because he's what dothey say?

Speaker 2 (01:17:32):
I just knocked him off the bike.

Speaker 6 (01:17:33):
I knocked him off the bike, yeah right, so I'll play
it muted.

Speaker 1 (01:17:38):
Okay, let's play it muted.
This is how I like to watch useof force videos, for the first
time anyway, so I'm going toshare the screen I wonder why it
was running.
Let's, let's, uh, and, and,like I, go on to explain if this
guy's wanted for a violentfelony and he is a obvious
danger like okay, all bets areoff, I'm okay with that.
Um, and I would even meet in themiddle that we have no way of

(01:18:01):
really stopping motorcyclesanymore.
So maybe if you figure out away to do low impact at low
speeds but then the debate'sgoing to be well, what's
considered a low speed?
Like if you tap the dude goingless than 10, okay, cool.
But nobody.

Speaker 2 (01:18:17):
There's a company in Belgium I think is it Belgium,
Turkey, Belgium that sent me anew version of tire deflation
devices that you can use onmotorcycles.
Have you?
Seen those things.

Speaker 4 (01:18:31):
It's a much slower deflation than what we're used
to as law enforcement.

Speaker 2 (01:18:36):
Yeah, you can actually use it on motorcycles
now.

Speaker 1 (01:18:38):
Oh, kingslayer, finally got on.
I'm totally going to watchtomorrow, cool.
But all right, I'm going toplay it muted.
Now again watch the white line,watch the tip of the car, and
you tell me again okay, now I'vewatched it hundreds of times,
so I've got an advantage.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
We call it hindsight bias.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
It is yeah, he went right, yeah, yeah, he's the last
minute, yeah, last minute.

Speaker 1 (01:19:11):
Your boy.
He takes it and is like boop,that's what I'm saying.
I think he took a low-impactchance.

Speaker 6 (01:19:18):
Yeah, At the end he did turn into the bucket.
Yeah, he's like I'm saying Ithink he took a low-impact
chance.
Yeah, At the end he did turninto the bug.

Speaker 1 (01:19:20):
Yeah, he's like I'm going to go straight.
Nope, Boop, yeah, the dudepitted him.
Now argue all you want y'all.
I got four people, three peopleup here and a kid.
The kid agrees with me.
I saw him shake his head.
He's not, he's not in his head.

Speaker 2 (01:19:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:19:39):
So Eric somebody made a comment on there use the
grappler device and I love thegrappler for vehicles.
Does that work on motorcycles?
Here's the deal.
I know they did some tests withit.
My whole thing is with thatgrappler.
I think and this is justbanning looking at it from
watching all the videos whenthey came online they were
starting to get big and nowthey're getting accepted into
law enforcement et cetera.
When they came online, theywere starting to get big and now

(01:20:01):
they're getting accepted intolaw enforcement et cetera.
I believe that would have beena much more violent stop on a
grappler than it would be forwhat just happened there.

Speaker 1 (01:20:06):
Oh, you think he would have just fucking launched
?
He yanked them up right?
Oh yeah, because the bike wouldstop.
But he's not.

Speaker 4 (01:20:12):
He's a vehicle to a stop and the body's still in
motion.

Speaker 1 (01:20:23):
no-transcript yeah, yeah, see, now you guys see,
like this is you know.
You know I hate to say it thatI'm considered to use a force
expert and I fucked up on a coptackling somebody.

(01:20:46):
I missed the whole fucking boaton that one.
So is what it is, guys, I'm Inow you know that guy driving a
crown vic it looks like like anold school crown.
Yeah, it did look like oldschool crowd.
It looked like old school Vicfor sure.
Um, new drinking game when,when, when banning says it's
banning his opinion, then youguys got to take a drink as well

(01:21:07):
.
Our, our crowd's going to behammered drunk.
There's nobody that's going tobe able to be on this show.

Speaker 4 (01:21:13):
Do I say it's my opinion, a lot Dadgummit.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
You say it's Banning's opinion.
Eye of the Knight said to methe first couple times it looked
like when the bike cut in frontof the truck he went in a
driveway area, but after acouple more views it looked like
the bike was trying to useother cars to block.
I don't know, I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:21:35):
You don't want to know why it was running.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
It changes everything .
It's a motorcycle.
It's what they do, bro.
They just run.
We'll try it one more.
One more time.
I want to see what Eye of theKnight's talking about.
So he's definitely using thecars to his advantage.
He thinks that.
That was edited big time.
So as he comes through here, Idon't see any cars Boom.

(01:21:57):
But so as he comes through here, I don't see any cars Boom, but
I do see the boop.
And what's crazy is thatdoesn't look like that's very
fast Get me an ambulance.

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
I knocked him off the motorcycle.

Speaker 1 (01:22:07):
And he's still messed up.
So you know what I mean, okay.
Okay, now we can get into themain part of the show, which is
the body cam reviews.
We've got to know.
Scott Trey finally decided tograce us with his presence.
Alan is, you know, in shittyWi-Fi so he can't even partake,

(01:22:33):
so he's messaging us from behindthe scenes.

Speaker 4 (01:22:35):
I was going to say even to Freeman there uh,
banning, does not think that?

Speaker 1 (01:22:44):
um, okay.
So for those that may be new towhat we're doing and those that
already know, we're going towatch some body cam videos that
we've never seen before.
None of us on the panel haveseen it.
If we happen to have seen thevideo, we will take ourselves
out of the assessment and whatwe're going to do is, as the
video progresses, we tell, takeourselves out of the assessment.
And what we're going to do is,as the video progresses, we tell
you how we see the call and howwe would react to what we're

(01:23:05):
seeing, versus Monday morningquarterbacking and already
knowing what happened.
That way, you kind of get aneye into law enforcement
training, how we differ slightlyfrom across the nation and also
how we are very similar.
We may take different trailsdown uh uh, down different
rabbit holes and stuff, but weall end up at the same goal

(01:23:25):
usually.
And then you might see theofficer veer off wildly from
what all of us have to say andthen typically, when they do
that, they messed up.
So we'll talk about that.
So let's uh, let's get intothat.
Um eye of the night.
Wait, I was enjoying Eric's badtakes.

(01:23:46):
Do we have more of those?
I'm sure there will be moreguys.
I, I, I'm human, I screw up, so, um, so we're going to first
give a shout out to shout out topolice activity.
That's where we got all of ourvideos tonight, so we are giving
them full credit for all ofthese videos that we are about
to watch.

(01:24:06):
I have three of them lined up,so if they are really long, we
try to keep them under fiveminutes.
If they're super long, we'regoing to fast forward through
them, because typically it's alot of blah blah, blah blah.
So let's go.
Okay, we're gonna pause.
Let's go back again.
We don't know these videosshout out to police activity and

(01:24:30):
let me make sure we're in highquality.
Yep, we're in high quality.
All right, let let's go.

Speaker 5 (01:24:38):
Stop, stop.
I'm going to give you a drink,that's it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:46):
Did he just say I was going to give you a drink,
that's it.
It looked like he held a can ofpop or something out for him to
take, okay, okay.
And then he ran right throughthat stop sign and ignored this
guy.
So that was odd um, I mean,lights aren't on or nothing's
just.
No, yeah, I don't.

(01:25:07):
I don't know if he was justtrying to run like some traffic
control interference.
Um, so, high quality h2o uh,yes.
So okay, we've got a trafficviolation.
He ignored an officer on foottelling him to stop.
High quality H2O yes, okay,we've got a traffic violation.
He ignored an officer on foottelling him to stop and then he
ran through a stop sign rightthere.
So, okay, I'm going to jump inmy car and I'm going to go after

(01:25:29):
him All right.
Let's do it.
Let's keep going.
I don't think anybody's goingto say anything.
Nobody's got anything differenton that, do you?
No, I think we're all inagreement, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:25:43):
His lights are on.

Speaker 4 (01:25:43):
Like a beer or something he just drove by.
He's back towards Lakeview.

Speaker 1 (01:25:48):
Okay, so he's drinking.
Oh, that's a stop stick.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
Well, he had his lights on too, so he didn't turn
it off.
I just realized that.

Speaker 1 (01:25:55):
Yeah, they were making that guy try to stop.
Yeah, yeah, they were makingthat guy try to stop, which
makes me think maybe that was adead-end rune and he came back
and that officer realized he hadnowhere to go.
That's kind of what that lookedlike, but now we're in full
pursuit.
Apparently this was edited Ididn't edit this, obviously and
they're about to stop.
Stick this guy.
So that's what this thing is.

(01:26:17):
It's on like a fishing line.
You can reel it up once you'veused it.
So from here, things toconsider, guys, that you may not
think about if you're not a copis as soon as this guy runs it
over, the next step is to getthat thing out of the road as
fast as possible, becausethere's cop cars coming right
behind it, and who here on thepanel has seen other cops?

Speaker 2 (01:26:39):
stop, stick other cops oh yeah, I have victim.

Speaker 1 (01:26:43):
Yeah, oh, you were a victim oh yeah, I've flattened
cruiser tires and had mineflattened oh no, you oh, so you
also flattened other people mybad you learn from that.
The first time I promise Ithrew, I've thrown them at
windshields.

Speaker 2 (01:27:00):
It's been insane.

Speaker 1 (01:27:01):
Oh jeez, they must have been hauling.
They were hauling the mail.
Okay, let's keep going here.
I think we got a good.
We got a good deflation.
Okay.
Once he does come to a stop,what are we going to do?

(01:27:23):
Fellas stop, felony trafficstop.
Okay.
So for those wondering, afelony traffic stop means we're
not running up to that car,we're gonna loud hell.

Speaker 2 (01:27:30):
Well we, we don't we prefer you not run up to the car
?

Speaker 1 (01:27:34):
yes, there are some freaking cowboys out there that
will run up there, you see itmore than yeah yeah, okay, let's
, uh, let's keep going show meyour hands now.
Get on the ground now okay, I'mokay with the with the tasing.

(01:27:59):
He was ignoring all theirorders and there's no reason to
think he was going to follow anyanyway, because he had to be
hit with spike strips and thenhe obviously got in an accident
with somebody else, it lookedlike a hit.

Speaker 2 (01:28:12):
Did he hit the cruiser or the cruiser hit him?
That was a police car.

Speaker 1 (01:28:14):
It looked like a civilian car.

Speaker 6 (01:28:15):
It was an unmarked Explorer, I thought it was a
light that may be a civilian carunmarked explorer.

Speaker 2 (01:28:21):
I thought that's a light.
I mean that may be a civiliancar or I think his taillights
are flashing.

Speaker 1 (01:28:25):
There's an antenna on the roof maybe oh yeah, you're
right, which is a no-no whereI'm at.
You don't use your uc for thatshit.
Mark units only.
No, he gets to do the electricshuffle a lot of stupid right

(01:28:46):
now you didn't see that I'mgoing back.

Speaker 2 (01:28:53):
No, what he said.
I looked away.
That's, that's my bro, that'spossible.
I looked away.
You guys had fun, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:29:01):
That's my bro.
That's awesome.
That's awesome you guys had fun, right?

Speaker 2 (01:29:08):
Did it say he offered him a vodka drink or something?
Is that what it said?

Speaker 1 (01:29:12):
Yeah, yeah, he offered him a vodka spritzer or
something like that when hedrove by, he offered him an
alcoholic beverageritzer orsomething like that.

Speaker 2 (01:29:19):
Or when he drove by, he offered him a alcoholic
beverage wow, oh my god, we needto make that a short clip, and
that's gonna be our closing, butyou guys had fun though, right,
yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:29:28):
yeah, we absolutely could.
It's public information, sohell yeah.
Um, that's so funny and wemight have to do that.
Might be the ending to all ofour shows.
Uh, let me go to the the sidesover here see what everybody's
saying.
Uh, I the knight said thanksfolks.
Uh, he was 89, lived.
What are we talking about here?

(01:29:52):
um I'm not sure what that'sabout.
I must have missed somecomments while we were looking
at the video.
You guys had fun though, right,that's epic.
That guy is epic.
Oh, I'm sorry I didn't see thatyour grandfather died.
Condolences, brother.
It's never easy.
Never easy for sure.

(01:30:15):
All right, let us I understand.
Pause, okay, I'm going to sharethe screen.
Share screen, okay.
Again.
Shout out to Police Activity.
We're going to biggie size Boom.
There we go.

Speaker 3 (01:30:44):
And let's go.
We need to do our job instead.
I'll agree.
653 Kingsgate, please.
Okay, give me one moment topull that up, all right, and
tell me exactly what happened.
My two sons are fighting whileI've got a gun.
Will you please say somethingwhile I'm here?
Quick, my partners are gettinghelp on the way while we're

(01:31:05):
speaking, all right, and then ifyou could just repeat that
address for me, just forverification 6-53 Kings Street.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:31:19):
What in the world?
Okay, so we already know thatwe're heading to a potential
person with a weapon Because hesaid one of my sons has a gun.
Okay, has anybody got any inputon how they're coming into this
call?
Was there a guy in the?

Speaker 2 (01:31:37):
backseat.
Was that cop in the back seat?
Was that cop in the back seat?

Speaker 6 (01:31:40):
yeah, this that's probably not like.
It's probably not like aregular patrol team, it's
probably some sort of likespecial unit or something.

Speaker 4 (01:31:47):
Yeah, I did that, pitted the one from the other
video.

Speaker 1 (01:31:49):
Now he's got a ride I don't want to run to back, yeah
, but yeah, he definitely gotout of the back seat okay,
making sure I wasn't seeingthings.

Speaker 2 (01:31:57):
No, no, yeah, I'm not drinking either.
This is water but I'm justmaking sure.

Speaker 1 (01:32:02):
Okay, so this is probably a three to four-man
team, because they know they'regoing into somebody's armed with
a gun, so that's cool.
I'm glad they were able to dothat Smart.
It's not typical.
Recording.
Get your hand out of yourpocket now.

(01:32:35):
Yeah, you don't, there'snothing you can do.
Yeah, that's I mean yeah,that's, that's honestly.

Speaker 4 (01:32:39):
Yeah, suicide by cop, it's really what that?

Speaker 1 (01:32:40):
that, that, um, this is something we hate to hate to
like anybody would hate to seethis, I mean this is yeah, and,
and I want to point out that theofficer, even upon seeing the
gun, still gave commands beforefiring yeah, they still gave him
a chance, which I don't havebeen really.
Yeah, um, normally you pull thegun out, you're getting shot.
It's over, yeah, but he held itdown, but the moment he started

(01:33:02):
to bring it up, they fired.

Speaker 5 (01:33:12):
I'll go back, because that did happen fast.

Speaker 1 (01:33:17):
So they still haven't fired.
They see the gun.
He gave commands that like putthe gun back.
He said, put your gun down, orsomething like that.

Speaker 6 (01:33:26):
but um, so he still hasn't fired once he lifted it

(01:33:52):
up, that's when they shot him.

Speaker 1 (01:33:53):
So so from here, yeah , you got to secure him.
People have jumped up from this.
I know it sounds stupid, butpeople have jumped up after
being shot six, seven, eight,ten times.
So you got to let them get overthat initial shock.
But these guys are going tomove in, hopefully, secure the
weapon, put this guy Justdepends on how bad he is and

(01:34:18):
then start trying to render aid.
Let's go hands, here you getit's right by the right hand and
don't touch the gun.
Did he say, don't touch the gun?
And then he grabbed it attackfor this guy.

Speaker 2 (01:34:40):
Sorry to see him when his shot's fired just leave it
there.

Speaker 1 (01:34:42):
You're pretty good at this right.
Where are you shot?
Where are you shot?
Where are you shot?
Roll him over, roll him over.
It's a lung shot.
You can hear him.
Go, grab him.
Go, grab him.
Grab your trauma kit.
Trauma kit sucking chest wound.
Start covering the holes.
It looks like we got one morebody cam angle.

Speaker 5 (01:35:05):
Hey, show me, hey, take your hand, show me your
hands the holes.
It looks like we got one morebody the gun now he's stuck in
that oodle loop.

Speaker 1 (01:35:19):
He's giving out those commands but uh, clean shoot.
There's nothing you can do yeahuh, harrison, they're using
dumb glocks again.
He's, he's doing an old.
Uh, we, we've talked on herequite a bit um how much I want
to get staccatos, so but uh,don't touch the gun department,

(01:35:42):
like where I live at they, theyissue staccato.

Speaker 6 (01:35:45):
That's like they.
They uh, they issue guns.
A department, they issuestaccatos.
There's a department near meit's called uh, ontario police
department.
They're like one of the onlyones in the country that issue,
though, though I guess.

Speaker 4 (01:35:58):
So I don't want to own property there because the
property taxes Can be out ofthis world if their cops are
carrying staccatos.

Speaker 6 (01:36:04):
Yeah, that shit is crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:36:06):
Yeah, we actually.
We're allowed to use them onduty.

Speaker 6 (01:36:11):
It can be a duty.

Speaker 1 (01:36:12):
But you gotta buy your own.

Speaker 6 (01:36:14):
Yeah, you gotta buy it.
That's the same way with us.
You gotta buy your own.

Speaker 1 (01:36:17):
Still waiting for staccato to check out the
podcast and be like you knowwhat those guys are.
All right, okay, well, let'sstop sharing that one.
I think that one was prettyopen and shut.
I think those officers dideverything they could I think
they went above and beyond totry to give this kid an

(01:36:38):
opportunity to put his gun backdown or put it down, but he, he
had his mind made up.
Yeah, there's not much you cando with that.

Speaker 6 (01:36:46):
But like somebody.
Somebody said that hate got somuch, which is that does suck,
dude.
But we just had a shooting onmy department and I was trying
to explain to someone like acivilian.
I'm like, bro, if you have fouror five, five cops there, we
all perceive the threat the sameway.
Even if I shoot four times,every other cop shoots four
times, four times seven, 28shots yeah six fours, that's

(01:37:10):
still a.
That's a lot of shots forsomebody to get hit.
So yeah, but it's becausethere's no way to separate how I
perceive the threat to the nextperson.
Like yo, if you point a gun inmy direction, I'm perceiving
that as being pointed at me.

Speaker 1 (01:37:24):
Yep, yep, or pointed towards your partner.

Speaker 6 (01:37:28):
Oh yeah, Same thing yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:37:29):
Yeah, I got a call.

Speaker 2 (01:37:34):
I got a call yesterday from a department out
west asking for an opinion onuse of force and I believe it
was eight officers 91 roundstotal.
Yeah, and I believe it waseight officers 91 rounds total.

Speaker 1 (01:37:40):
Yeah, and that's what the media is going to focus on
is the number of rounds versuswhen did you stop shooting?
All these guys stopped firingas soon as this guy finished his
drop.

Speaker 2 (01:37:50):
And everybody's going to perceive that quote drop
different as well.

Speaker 1 (01:37:54):
Yeah, and you may be delayed a little bit more, but
you know what did Mr Billfoldsay?
Eric, show the community howhot I look in those retro rifle
shirts.
Let me see if I can pull thatup, sir.
Yeah, let me do that.
Here we go.
I forgot that I can do thisShare screen.

(01:38:17):
So you guys are about to getsome first-time modeling by the
one and only Mr Bill Fulton.
Now, this is the shirt I wastalking about Banning.

Speaker 2 (01:38:28):
Shout out to our sponsors.

Speaker 1 (01:38:29):
Retro Rifle Wow, I have never seen this one, so I
was very upset that he had thisshirt, and I do not.

Speaker 2 (01:38:38):
So yeah, Wear that next to his yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:38:42):
Let me see if I can go to his other one.
He got the graffiti, which is avery cool shirt.
I like that one.
And then this is the one thatsurprised me.
I think he got this one for hismissus.
My man went cheetah print.
I knew there was somethingfreaky about him, didn't know he
was that freaky, oh man.

(01:39:06):
Thanks for for doing that.
Mr Billfold, appreciate themodeling sir.

Speaker 6 (01:39:10):
Hey, pin that question about are y'all trained
to shoot specific number?
That's a good question.

Speaker 1 (01:39:16):
Let me see, I don't see it oh here we goittany garza
, are y'all trained to shoot aspecific number when in a
situation, or all up on up tothe unit?
So, um, I'll lead.
We're trained to shoot till thethreat stops.
Now the difference in shootingand what you could see in that

(01:39:37):
video is that you don't know ifyour bullets are hitting that
person.
You don't see the bullets goingin, versus when you're at the
range, you can see your bulletsgo in the target, generally
speaking.
So there's a huge difference.
What do they call it?
At the range, they're alwayssaying stop, target acquisition

(01:39:58):
or, yeah, trying to make sureyou hit the target is basically
what they're trying to say,because you're not going to be
able to see that in real life.

Speaker 6 (01:40:06):
Especially when someone's wearing dark clothes.
You can't see it.

Speaker 2 (01:40:11):
Yeah, so yeah when they're moving, there's trees,
there were some signs in the way.
I think what the averageofficer fires about one round
every quarter second.
So know, four rounds a second,that's boom, boom, that's fast,
right, eight right seconds.
You can do the math fourseconds.
You've got a lot of officersdoing a magazine change.
So, uh, you know, you'repulling the trigger quicker than

(01:40:31):
those bullets are.
You know, uh, you're processingthat in your own brain yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:40:37):
So if we, if we go back, I'm going to share the
screen again, and this isn't tobe grotesque or to um,
disrespect the fallen kid.
Um, he's obviously goingthrough some mental issues, but,
um, what I want to do is justlook at the time that it takes
once this first shot goes off.
So he's just about to fire.

(01:41:02):
We're at 155.
Oh, you guys can't even see it.
I'm not sharing the screen yet.
Stop drinking, eric.
Okay, so here we are.
We got the screen up, thank you, and we're at 155.
My name is in the way.
I'm sorry you can't see it andI don't know how to.
Let me see if I can turn thatoff.

(01:41:27):
Nope, I can't, okay.
So anyway, he hasn't fired yet.
We're still at 155.

Speaker 2 (01:41:37):
And people should know right now.
They would be completelyjustified to shoot him right now
.

Speaker 1 (01:41:41):
Yes, and I think they're just about to.
So we had about three secondsthere, so it was 155 to 157,
almost to 158.
And they fired that many timesand they stopped Look as soon as
he's down on the ground.
They discontinued firing.
I don't think we get any moreshots after this.

(01:42:01):
Nope, so no more shots afterthat.
Um, so they've.
They were trained to fire untilthe threats neutralized, still
with the hoodies.
I know, um, mag, mag dump,don't stop drinking, eric.
He's trying to get me to,trying to get me to lose my job.

(01:42:24):
What about, ok?
What about four cops taking 12seconds to shoot?

Speaker 6 (01:42:28):
And that was horseshit, how that went down.

Speaker 1 (01:42:31):
Yeah, yeah, that was.
I don't know enough about thatone.
Do you know more about that one, trey?

Speaker 6 (01:42:38):
I think it was in like Wyoming or somethingrey.
I think it was in Wyoming orsomething.
I think somewhere in theMidwest area.

Speaker 1 (01:42:44):
I only saw one quick clip of it from down the street.
That's all, that's out myunderstanding is there was a
fence in between them and thenthe officers were the kid, went
towards them with the knife, soI don't know enough to speak on
that one.
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:43:03):
I don't either.
I just think the fence beingthere is enough, Because he
didn't if he would have turnedtowards the mom who was behind.

Speaker 1 (01:43:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:43:11):
Then that changes the game.
But he advanced towards theofficers with the fence being
there.
I mean I can't piece togetherany reason to shoot a gun at
that point even a take even atake like even a taser is kind
of pushing it, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:43:25):
But yeah, yep yeah I don't know.
I don't know enough about thatone, but I do know with the
fence being in between them,that's a big factor yeah, huge
factor yeah, and do I have timeto move out of the way?
can I retreat a little bit?
Um, I know we don't have a dutyto retreat, but then again, if
it helps me avoid having toshoot somebody, just depends.

(01:43:48):
I don't know enough about thatone.
I would love to see body camsee what they saw.
That would be nice.
Have they released that yet?
Do you know?

Speaker 6 (01:43:55):
I've been looking for it.
I can't find it.

Speaker 1 (01:43:57):
Okay, yeah, I haven't seen that one yet.
What did that one say, magda?
No, never.
You are like seriously one ofthe good guys with a badge.
We need more like you.
Aw, thanks, buddy.
I know I give you shit, but youare a good guy with a badge.

(01:44:19):
Thanks, man.
Don't say that too loud infront of Country Girl.
She might call you out.
She's just trying, like damn,to get us to get these damn
hoodies.
I don't know how to get them.
So, okay, we got one more video, and this one is, I understand

(01:44:41):
We'll pause.
Okay, this one's short too.
It's four minutes, so sharescreen.
There we go Biggie size.
All right, and let's can we getcheers for the youngest member
of TCOD, trey's kid Trey, what'syour kid's name?

(01:45:06):
His name is TJ, tj, I like it,tj.
All right, that guy obviouslyran that light.
Everybody was stopped exceptthat guy, and now the cop is
just sitting there.
All right, I won't say it,chief, I'm going to let you say
it first.
What was that cop thinking?

Speaker 2 (01:45:25):
Well, I was just thinking like even the laziest
cop in the department has to go.
You're like he probably getsoff work in like five minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:45:39):
Yeah, I just want to get back to the everybody's
sitting there like cops, arejust looking for reasons to pull
you over.
The fuck we are.
We're not.
We're looking for reasons notto pull anybody over so I see
that happened and I didn't prepthese guys at all, I just said
what were you thinking he's like?
All right, I gotta do somethingnow.

Speaker 2 (01:45:57):
Also how bright this car is right here in the parking
lot.
I know it's like the camera.

Speaker 1 (01:46:02):
Yeah, that dude running that light, right in
front of you with multiple carsjust sitting there watching you,
and all I'm thinking is likethey all got dash cams now.

Speaker 2 (01:46:10):
I gotta go, because if I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:46:11):
I'm gonna be the next youtube video where they're
like look at this cop, not dohis job.
I got license plate number, hiscar number, right and now the
next thing that's going tohappen is this cop's going to
have to use force and they'regoing to be like oh, you just
pulled them over for trafficoffense and you know damn well
they would have lit them up fornot going after that car.

(01:46:32):
See what I'm saying, guys if youdon't, we can't win sometimes.
My win sometimes.
My buddy, my buddy says it'sthe hardest job in america, for
sure.
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:46:44):
Okay, let's keep, by the way.
I am so out of the loop on thishoodie thing.

Speaker 1 (01:46:48):
Just a sidebar, I have no idea what they're
talking about.
So I found these like animehoodies one day.
Like I'm a big dragon ball zfan okay, I'm a nerd, I know and
these hoodies are different,I've never seen them before.
They've got like this, likeoversized hood, and somehow they
, instead of having, like youknow, like the lettering like
steamed onto it or ironed ontoit or whatever, they somehow

(01:47:11):
created the lettering in thefabric.
It's hard to explain withoutseeing it, and I was talking
about it.
I was like that'd be cool tohave a two cops, one donut
version of that.
Well, fuck, I said it at thewrong time because they have not
let me forget about it sinceDan mentioned it.

Speaker 2 (01:47:30):
I wasn't going to say anything, but every other one
of these comments over heretalks about these hoodies.
I'm like what are these peopletalking about?

Speaker 1 (01:47:38):
Oh man people talking about.
Oh man, if you guys do wantsome tcod merch, you can always
go to ghost patch, becausethat's where our metal badges,
our coins and our littlerubberized velcro patches are at
.
So they're on.
If you go to our website twocops, one donut website and go
to our sponsors, just scrolldown to ghost patch and you

(01:47:58):
click on that and it will takeyou to our products on Ghost
Patch.
Or you can go to Ghost Patchand type in Two Cops, one Donut
and you'll find us.
Alright, let's keep going, hey.
Turn off your car.

(01:48:23):
Watch your phone.
Okay, so that's not normal.
This is not how I conduct anormal traffic stop With
somebody running a red light.
So he's either opened his door,unasked the vehicle or his
windows are down and he's actingweird.
Yeah, vanny, you got anything.

Speaker 4 (01:48:39):
We just don't know all the details of the call.
Was this a call before the redlight run?
Was she looking for the vehicle.
I mean, we just don't know thedetails on it.

Speaker 1 (01:48:47):
Yeah, based on that cop's reaction, the way his car
was like stopped for just asecond, he's like fuck.
Anyway, like that's thereaction I saw, okay, I'll get
him.

Speaker 8 (01:49:02):
Officer this is my customer.
Can you turn it off?
I can't tell.
The lights are still back infront.
All right, give me one second.
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:49:22):
Tell him to roll down the window too.
Driver enter Red Toyota.

Speaker 1 (01:49:28):
Okay, so we're treating it like a felony stop,
the windows are tinted, theycan't see.
Oh, okay, I don't blame them.
I like this approach.
Better play it safe.
May I try Spanish.
Better than I can do.

Speaker 8 (01:49:54):
He was swerving in and out of lanes he almost
teased into a car.

Speaker 5 (01:50:00):
I tried to pull him over, but he stopped over here.

Speaker 2 (01:50:05):
So somebody else just pulled up right Was it a boss,
tell him what's going on, tellhim what's going on.
So that was severely edited,because she just makes that
comment that he was swerving allover the road and whatever else
he did, and then, boom, itshows him making the stop.
So anyway, I'm sorry, I didn'tmean to cut you off.

Speaker 1 (01:50:23):
Oh, you're good, I'm sorry.
Somebody's laughing at somebodyelse's comment.
Neva said, or Nevia said, I'mgoing to make my own t-shirt
that says please don't shoot mefor using a walker.
I don't get that one.
Did the cop shoot somebody witha walker?
I'm guessing that that could besomething.

(01:50:47):
Uh, get with custom screenprinter and they can print a
bunch of plain hoodies andt-shirts.
I think we should do a tcodbeard calendar.
We got some monster whiskers inthe community.
Jesus, we got some weirdfetishes going on up here.
Alright, let's keep going.
Sounds like we might have a DWI.

(01:51:07):
Hey, dude, hey, hey, oh Lord,is she a gangster shooting over
there?
Banning, you know, I'm going tosay it.
You say it first, I'm notsaying it.
No, go ahead man Fuck, stay offthe radio until business is

(01:51:34):
finished.
She was so fucking hurried toget on that radio.
I think she was firingone-handed training, training,
training.

Speaker 2 (01:51:44):
You know why?
Because agencies have beat intotheir people that they guy on
the radio and tell people what'sgoing on before anything else
and it's it's causing cops toget hurt and killed and nonsense
.
So you can't I always say youcan't multitask.
It sounds like you can, but Idon't think you can give your
brain 100 of attention on.
You can, but I don't think youcan give your brain a hundred
percent of attention on twoseparate things.
Right, it might be 95, five,but yeah, handle your business,

(01:52:05):
then get on the radio.
Yeah, sorry, that's a pet peeve.

Speaker 4 (01:52:09):
Don't say sorry about that.
We preach that every day.

Speaker 6 (01:52:11):
We preach it all the time.
I think this if I had to guessthis LAPD, because no patch on
the side.
No, no, no.
They're big on not havingearpieces and shit when they get
into shootings.
I don't know if y'all ever payattention to this, but a lot of
the time they get into shootingsthey're holding a radio in one
hand and a gun in the other.

Speaker 2 (01:52:32):
They don't have speaker mics.

Speaker 1 (01:52:34):
They don't have earpieces A lot of them they
don't have earpieces.

Speaker 6 (01:52:40):
They don't really believe in that.
A lot of LAPD guys, they don'treally wear earpieces.

Speaker 1 (01:52:43):
Listen.
If you're LAPD and you'relistening to this right now,
you're a dumbass.
Get an earpiece.
It's a safety issue, Not justfor yourself, but for everybody.

Speaker 6 (01:52:53):
I don't know why.

Speaker 4 (01:52:55):
At least a few years ago they were not allowed to
have anything coming off thatlapel going in there.

Speaker 6 (01:53:00):
Yeah, no, lapel nothing.
I don't know if they're notallowed to or it's just a
culture thing, but I know a lotof their officers don't wear
earpieces or lapels.

Speaker 1 (01:53:11):
All right, let's see.

Speaker 2 (01:53:13):
There's two officers on that side of the car.

Speaker 1 (01:53:16):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:53:17):
I'm guessing On this side.
I assume Total yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:53:19):
Yeah he was working in and out of lanes.
He almost teased him to.
We tried to pull him over, buthe stopped okay, pause that real
quick.

Speaker 2 (01:53:36):
Can I just point out on the tactical side of the
house are you?

Speaker 1 (01:53:39):
you were about to.
Yeah, go ahead, I was gonna dothe same thing.
You go for it, sir.
The flashlight, yep, flashlight.

Speaker 2 (01:53:43):
Yep, just turn it off .
That spotlight has put enoughlight inside that car.
When I teach traffic stoptactics for nighttime, that's
one of the biggest things wepreach Giving your position away
that spotlight.
The takedowns on these lightbars today are so bright.
You'd be amazed at how muchlight, excuse me, you'd be
amazed how much you don't needthat flashlight right now.
How much you don't need thatflashlight right now.
Well, it's tying up a hand.

Speaker 1 (01:54:04):
It's occupied.
That's why you should make andI've done this with my own team
you should be sitting in thedriver's seat of another vehicle
while one or two officers pullup behind your car and hit you
with the floodlights.
Let you see what they see, soyou understand from both
perspectives, so you know where,and we'll have our guys cross

(01:54:27):
in front of the lights and we'llshow how that can give your
position away, turn your light,your flashlight on, how, even
though they're being bombardedwith all this light, that that
can give your position away.
Um so, yeah yeah, uh, what is itcountry?

Speaker 6 (01:54:44):
girl, I agree, unless the the only way I would kind
of be okay with what she's doingis if she, uh, is putting the
light into the into the mirroror something into the mirror.
But even then, like you gotspotlight, so your spotlight can
do that yeah, exactly so.

Speaker 1 (01:55:02):
And and they're both using handheld.
I don't know if you can see youprobably can't see my mouse
Right there.
That's his beam.
I can see it and that's herbeam right there.
So they're both using handhelds.
So now we're on a felony stopwith only one hand on our
weapons.
And Alan's mentioned in thebackground, gun lights.

(01:55:23):
Yeah, that's another thing.
I have a gun light so, but it'snot needed.
You don't need it here.

Speaker 2 (01:55:31):
There's plenty of light.
The light bars today areobnoxiously bright, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:55:41):
All right, he's dropping F-bombs.
Ooh, a's got a shooter stance.

Speaker 2 (01:55:56):
Still got that flashlight around Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:56:01):
This guy's got probably the second best view
next to our person on the mic.

Speaker 5 (01:56:06):
He's into it.
I'm going to try to pull himover because he stopped over
here.
Put your hands out Careful, hey, dude, hey, hey.

Speaker 1 (01:56:22):
He did shoot one-handed the whole time.
He's going to need help.

Speaker 2 (01:56:28):
Did you see what just happened there?
If you back that up about fiveseconds and watch the female at
the passenger side because she'sgot that flashlight or
something in her left hand,watch how she's shooting, watch
her right hand when she'sshooting, hey, do it, hey hey.

Speaker 1 (01:56:44):
Oh, she's just winging shots out there.

Speaker 2 (01:56:47):
Yeah, now watch.

Speaker 1 (01:56:51):
Just all one-handed and probably all over here.

Speaker 2 (01:56:56):
Yeah, which is an uncommon situation.
I'm not critiquing her gunfire,I'm just the thing with the
flashlight and the gun hand andhaving things to trace.
Point about the earpiece andthe lapel mic.
Yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:57:09):
I am absolutely critiquing her gunfire.
That's fucking unacceptable.
Like I, I am very concernedwith whoever is over over here
because them shots.

Speaker 6 (01:57:23):
Now those shots are probably going going hard, left
with the weak wrist, kind oflike noodle like she's pushing
into the car.

Speaker 1 (01:57:31):
So my thought is my natural, like if I'm aimed at
the camera right now, if my bodygoes this to the left, my arm
is naturally kicking out, versusif I can't in, when I start to
go into my arm, I I go to theleft.
So to me she's shooting wheremy mouse is somewhere over here.

Speaker 2 (01:57:52):
Well, it goes back to what we said.
I mean, in my opinion it goesback.
I'm very cautious of critiquingin situations like this,
because you know we're not thereand and I think about, I think
about the training, that theofficers don't get that mimic
situations like this.

Speaker 6 (01:58:07):
Yeah, that's true.
Hell, yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:58:11):
Yeah, I get it.
But at the same time, man, it'slike if we can't learn from
being people talking a littlebit of shit about what we're
doing, like we're too sensitive,us as cops.
I think that's one of ourproblems we get too sensitive
with each other.
I'm like that's bullshit.
Shooting it is to me.

(01:58:32):
I call it like I see it.
If I was that chief, I'd belike oh hell, no, you are going
to training, you are off thestreet.
Until that's fixed, I get it,but well, let's finish.
Let me see the video first,before I even start.
Even going down that rabbithole, I talk too much.

(01:58:53):
I need help.
Officer I need help.
Mr Belfort's telling me to playit slow back.
I don't know how.

Speaker 7 (01:59:06):
Driver in the red Toyota.
Turn off your vehicle, put allyour windows down.

Speaker 1 (01:59:12):
What are we looking at?
Oh, I was looking down here atthese cars.
What are we looking at?
Conductor del vehículo rojoBaja todas tus ventanas.

Speaker 8 (01:59:29):
He was swerving in and out of lanes.
He almost teased into a car.

Speaker 7 (01:59:37):
I would try to pull him over, but he stopped over
here.
Careful, hey, dude, hey hey.

Speaker 5 (01:59:50):
Oh, yeah, yeah that angle angle he definitely took a
shooter stance.

Speaker 1 (01:59:57):
That guy that kept firing was the guy on the ground
be curious.

Speaker 2 (02:00:00):
Another backstory to this one.
Yeah, dan said earlier about isthere a reason?
Know, it looked like he ran ared light, but was there
something else that they werelike looking for that car?

Speaker 1 (02:00:10):
Yeah, help.
Oh, they had a shield, that'sgood.

Speaker 5 (02:00:22):
Slow it down, guys, slow it down Nice and slow, all
right.

Speaker 1 (02:00:32):
Roll them over.
Good, pat down.
Damn.
Okay, stop sharing.
Yeah, that's oh Mr Billfold'sprobably trying to teach me here
.
Eric, click the settings whereyou check the quality.
Oh, playback speed.
Oh, he's right.

Speaker 2 (02:00:49):
You said you were the tech guy.

Speaker 1 (02:00:51):
Certain things, certain things.
This is where everybody turnsdrunk.
Oh, you guys can't see it.
Swerving in and out of lanes.
Skill must cease until.

(02:01:13):
Hey, hey.
Yeah, read the title.
Yeah, I saw that it said cellphone afterwards.

(02:01:35):
Yeah, so he was presenting acell phone.
It's definitely not the firsttime this has ever happened.
There's plenty of cases wherepeople have brought up a cell
phone trying to present it likeit's a gun and they've gotten
shot.
So, um, you know, look, it'sdark out.
They're all trying to uselights to see.
Is what it is.
Yeah, uh, suicide by cop again.

(02:01:56):
In my opinion, um, stop sharingthat one.

Speaker 6 (02:02:01):
Eric drank too much that that's also probably
probably a situation where youreally not thinking it's gonna
turn out like that.
I had an fto who, uh, I would Idon't know why in one of my
phases I would, I would, uh, Ikept getting like building
searches back to back to back, abunch of them and then, um, I
just stopped taking them seriousand my fto was like dude, one

(02:02:22):
time it's gonna be somebody inthis building and you're fucking
around not taking it seriousand that can be the one in your
life.
So you have to treat everytraffic stop like it could turn
into that until you get a senseof who the person is.

Speaker 1 (02:02:35):
Yeah, these fuckers are not being nice to me tonight
.
I don't like it.
I don't like it at all.
I feel sensitive.
What did Eric say?
He's a tech guy.
I don't like it at all.
I feel sensitive.
What did Eric say?
He said take out.
Yep, too much milk.
Wait, shut up.
All right, all y'all can shutup.
Okay, that is all we have forvideos.
So before we go too far, scott,is there anything that you want

(02:03:04):
to talk about?
Is there anything you were likeyou know what?
We had a lot of fun tonight,but I was really hoping we
talked about this.

Speaker 2 (02:03:11):
No, I just I think what you're doing is remarkable.
I think you know I don't wantto keep saying the same thing,
but you know, trying to, tryingto.
I don't like to use the wordbridge the gap either, because
it's so overused, but bridgethat gap and help explain.

Speaker 1 (02:03:25):
It's only our mission statement, but whatever.

Speaker 2 (02:03:27):
Okay.
Well then there you go To justhelp educate folks in why
officers do what they do.
And again, like I started with,I know I'm never going to get
the haters and I'm always goingto have the lovers.
It's the people in the middleand I'm always going to have the
lovers.
It's the people in the middleand I think you're doing a good
job trying to explain whyofficers do make these decisions

(02:03:49):
and break down these videos andjust give folks a different
perspective.
So just kudos for what you'redoing and I appreciate you
having me on.
Yeah, not a problem, it's agood time 100% man.

Speaker 1 (02:04:03):
Now, yeah, I know Banning didn't really partake a
whole lot tonight.
He's he's been working his buttoff out there.
So, um, scott, now somethingyou and I started discussing
before we got going is youdecided to start up a podcast.

Speaker 2 (02:04:20):
I did, but I didn't tell you the name of it.

Speaker 1 (02:04:23):
You didn't.
That's where we were trying toget to.

Speaker 2 (02:04:28):
Banny do you know the name you told me and I forgot,
so that's on me.
Oh boy, I didn't want to breakthis on live, on live.
Oh, you're breaking it on live,sir, so okay.
So, let's, let's back up alittle bit, okay, okay.
So, let's, let's back up alittle bit, okay.
So we met you and I met lastyear, the year before, at the

(02:04:50):
induction ceremony.
It was last year it was lastyear, but it was real brief,
right, like hey, how you doing?
And you were, you're doing yourthing and yeah, and I known
Banning and Banning kind of madethe connection and and, um,
outside of that meeting you andI haven't really had any
conversation other than throughsocial media, like you know,
liking comments and sharingthings and and tagging each

(02:05:12):
other and stuff.
So I go to the FBI nationalAcademy and I meet up, uh, I
meet a guy who's a chief inMichigan and we were sitting um
around one night and said youknow we'll be fun is, why don't
we start a podcast?
You know, I'm from Ohio, you'refrom Michigan.
Like we could have some funwith that.

(02:05:33):
So we're like, yeah, whatever,what are we going to call it?
And the guy's like I don't know, what do you think about I
don't know a couple of chiefsand something.
He's going back and forth andback and forth and I'm like I
got an idea.
I said, what about two chiefs,one mic?

Speaker 1 (02:05:49):
okay, interesting, right so so now, fast forward.

Speaker 2 (02:05:55):
We're coming up on the induction ceremony and I'm
starting to like reconnect withall the people who are going to
be at the hall of fame and blah,blah, blah, and I'm like, oh
man, two chiefs, one mike, twocups, one donut, don't feel bad
don't feel bad, I I.

Speaker 1 (02:06:15):
I ripped my name from two bears one cave, and they
ripped their name from two girlsone cup.
So I mean six degrees ofseparation.
That's where we're at, but ifpeople want to find you, yeah,
hey there it is.

Speaker 2 (02:06:31):
You found me two cheese one on all your favorite
social media platforms.
Yeah, so ours is uh, we, oursis.
Well, as you will see, ours isuh like, like, uh low level,
like you know, elementary schoolstuff.
We're still trying to figureout how to start, how to edit
and do things.
But I tell you what we had on aI did have that episode three

(02:06:52):
there, that death of K-9 Fury.
I had a chief on whosedepartment lost a K-9 in the
line of duty and it was kind ofinteresting to hear Chief Colon,
who's a friend of mine, kind ofwalk through that story and
we're excited, you, interestingto hear Chief Colon, who's a
friend of mine, kind of walkthrough that story and we're
excited.
You know we're not going tobreak any records or anything,

(02:07:14):
but there are a lot of folks, Ithink, out there who are
aspiring to maybe move up anorganization.
So we want to give aspiringchiefs or really leaders in
general, just some ideas andtools and stuff they can put in
their toolbox.
So yeah, so that's that's thatnice one, mike yeah, you know
what they say.

Speaker 1 (02:07:32):
What is it?
Uh, imitation is the best formof flattery there you go.

Speaker 2 (02:07:36):
That's it, there you go.

Speaker 4 (02:07:37):
Yeah, there you go oh that is so funny and don't say
you're not going to break any,any records.
You may, and I and I hope youdo, uh, cause I know, I know
your, I know your background, Iknow where you come from, I know
your ethics.
Um, I think you're going to dovery well with it, so keep
plugging away.

Speaker 2 (02:07:54):
Hell yeah, brother, thanks, we'll get you.
We'll get you on an episode.

Speaker 1 (02:07:57):
Yeah, if you need any help with anything uh, you need
advice on editing and all thatstuff Like yeah, for sure, we've
got it down bro.

Speaker 2 (02:08:04):
You guys doing a great job and we're going to hey
, we're going to build on thisnext year at the induction
ceremony too.
I can't wait for our next boardmeeting.
Hell yeah.
I got some notes and I know youand I had a conversation
offline and yeah, trey, will youcome on my podcast?
Hell yeah, I got you OfCalifornia PD.

Speaker 6 (02:08:27):
Yeah, I got you.

Speaker 2 (02:08:28):
Hell yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:08:30):
I got a question, though, for you T.
Yes, I'm hiring.

Speaker 1 (02:08:35):
Can't afford Trey.
What are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (02:08:40):
Trey, I will pay you enough money to get you better
internet.
I'll put that in your unioncontract.
They call him Triple Trey.
I will pay you enough money toget you better internet.
I'll put that in your unioncontract.

Speaker 1 (02:08:47):
They call him Triple Trey out there.

Speaker 2 (02:08:50):
Always on that.

Speaker 1 (02:08:51):
Triple OT.
That kid hasn't moved I know,he was sick.

Speaker 6 (02:08:56):
That's what took me so long to get on.
He was having a fit because hewas sick, so I was trying to
give him medicine.
He was fighting me with themedicine.

Speaker 2 (02:09:04):
So I think it's probably the medicine kicking in
I want to get trey on or alittle tj on the show.

Speaker 6 (02:09:08):
There you go oh, trust me, he would harass your
whole uh right, just talkingshit the whole time roasting.

Speaker 2 (02:09:16):
Oh, by the way, uh is mega stock, is that?
Is that, megan?

Speaker 4 (02:09:21):
no, hers is her full name?

Speaker 2 (02:09:23):
oh okay, because it says notes dot, dot, dot dot.
Like what do you mean?
Notes like uh-oh sorry.
Sorry, trey, what was your?
Uh?
You said you had a question forme.
I'm sorry yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:09:34):
so in terms of like, especially, not necessarily like
the older cops, but like kindof like 10 years and under five
years, or like my, like my timeon you here, you hear like.
You hear cops say like oh, youknow, the chief is just in the
office, he doesn't know we'rereally going through and he's
put all these policies in placewithout even considering

(02:09:54):
officers long time at least inthe field to get to your
position.
How could you make thoseofficers understand where you
sit and how do you find thatbalance?

Speaker 2 (02:10:11):
So that's a great question and I don't know if you
were wrong when I first started, but I have a philosophy and
that is that as the higher upyou go, you always have to
remember where you came from andyou can't never lose sight of
that.
So little things.
That I always suggest toleaders is and some departments

(02:10:33):
really get by this Otherdepartments are kind of like
they struggle is like I think asa police chief, I should wear a
uniform more often than not,Right, Like are there times
where I have to wear a suit or Imay have to dress business
casual because I have a meetingor something off site?
Possibly Right, but I thinkbeing in uniform sends the right
message.
Getting out in a police carperiodically Now, when I say

(02:10:53):
that in a room full of cops,people are like, oh my God, if
the chief ever came out here,like somebody's in trouble,
what's he out here trying tocatch us doing and a lot of.
That's probably more culture andthat takes time to change.
But you know I keep a paperworkthat I've had with me for the

(02:11:18):
27 years, whatever I've beendoing this, that sometimes I'll
pull out just as a reminder,just to show my younger officers
like hey look, I used to be acop one day, Right?
Just because I do think.
Sometimes people think, oh, youjust get hired as a chief and
you were.
You never did real police workand that's just not the case.
But yeah, Good question.

(02:11:38):
Don't know if I answered it,but that was a good question.

Speaker 6 (02:11:41):
No, no, I did.

Speaker 1 (02:11:43):
Some of the problems, though, is like policing's
changed so much that the chiefsand the ACs and the DCs like
being in patrol is nothing likewhen they were in patrol.
You know even where I'm at.
I don't know that any of thepeople in leadership at the top
wore a body camera when theywere in patrol.

Speaker 6 (02:12:03):
No no.

Speaker 2 (02:12:07):
So how can you relate ?
You know, honestly, I think Ithink that's where I'm getting
some terrible feedback.

Speaker 1 (02:12:11):
I don't know if that's ghetto ass setup over
there hey, we got to fix thisbroad fucking mic.

Speaker 2 (02:12:17):
Man, his mic is trey, I'm not drinking, but you're
gonna cause me to start drinkingif I just echo in my ear but
that is the best, but I thatthat needs to be a t-shirt but I
I think to that, to that pointI think, and again I don't, I

(02:12:38):
don't know.
This is a whole another episoderight on just leadership.
I think what, what.
What has to happen is thosecaptains, those lieutenants,
those chiefs that have neverworn a body camera or are so far
removed, they have to make theeffort to try to connect with
their troops.
I've always believed that roadpatrol is the backbone of the

(02:12:59):
organization and, in particular,night shift right, those folks,
just those folks just are outthere hustling and bustling and
they are forgotten about.
And I can remember, as a policeofficer, when I was young, I
felt like I was so disconnectedfrom what was going on in their
organization because I was onnight shift.
You know, we would joke thatthe only way we knew what was
going on is if we passedsomebody on day shift in the

(02:13:21):
hallway or we ran into them incourt.
So there's things that I do nowas a chief to try to bridge
that communication gap.
But you know, the higher up yougo, the harder you have to work
.
And it's so easy, in my opinion,for leaders to find excuses as
to why they can't do something,as opposed to make it work Right
, and again that's a wholenother like arena that we could

(02:13:43):
get into sometime.
But, um, I would, I wouldsuggest and I'm sure you've had
a guest on this show before thatwould, that would say this too
that one of our biggest issueswith recruitment and retention
isn't what's going on in themedia, it's leadership inside
the organizations.
So, but again, that's adifferent, that's a different
topic, but happy to discuss itoffline.
You can find me on social mediaand stuff and happy to answer

(02:14:07):
any questions I can.

Speaker 1 (02:14:09):
Hell, yeah, I'm going to address that.
Everybody's talking about theID crack stuff, so let's talk
about that.
We got time.
I got time anyway, scott, Idon't know if you got time.

Speaker 2 (02:14:21):
It's three hours past my bedtime, but I'm committed
now.

Speaker 1 (02:14:24):
Yeah, you're in it.
You're in it to win it.
Um, so, id like, if you'rewondering why cops ask for it so
much, there's just, we areinformation gatherers.
It's what we're here for.
That's when we do anything.
It's to gather information.
One.
It's.
It's a liability thing if I goout and I don't say who I made

(02:14:45):
contact with.
You know.
Not every time can I even dothat because you don't have to
ID.
But we ask.
There's nothing wrong with usasking for information.
Guys, and I do it.
I will ask for all theinformation I can get.
If somebody tells me to go fuckmyself, I'll be like, all right
, well, I tried, appreciate it,have a good day that day, that's
it.
But yes, cops are id happy,crack happy.

(02:15:10):
It's id crack.
Yes, because we're informationgatherers.
That's what our job is.
It's not just, uh, you know,showing up and and not taking
account for anything.
We have to try to take accountfor as much as we can because it
comes in use later.
It helps cover our butts later.
It's a CYA thing.

(02:15:31):
So, especially if they're like Icalled them out to that scene
and they never showed up, theynever talked to anybody.
Yeah, I did.
I talked to Mr Smith over here.
He told me that he lives thereand that's his property and he
had a right to be on there, andhe had a right to be on there.
Okay, cool, you made contactwith Mr Smith.
Can we verify that?
Yep, it's all about stuff likethat.

(02:15:51):
So you know.
Now, I think where thedifference comes in is when
people start trying to demand it, and I think that's the problem
that citizens have is officersdemanding ID when they don't
have a right to, and that is abig misstep in police training.
Now, scott, what does yourdepartment do, if you can talk
about it?
I do know that chiefs havehigher concerns than knowing

(02:16:16):
exactly what training is beingconducted at their.
They say, hey, go train ourguys, and you trust your guys to
go train your people.
But, um, what training at yourdepartment, for instance, or
that you've seen, are you guysdoing to ensure, um, that your
officers know when and when theycannot, uh, ask for ID and

(02:16:38):
stuff of that nature?

Speaker 2 (02:16:40):
Yeah, I think it goes back to what I said early on,
and that is, if we're investingin a call for service, we have
some lawful reason to be there,then we're going to get
information to the point youjust made.
We have to fill out a report,we have to fill out, you know,
whatever the policy mightrequire for this or that.
What we train our people in isdon't do anything stupid and

(02:17:01):
don't just go up and randomlyask people for their ID.
If you don't have a reason toinvestigate, to investigate
something, I mean I hate to sayit, but it's very like common
sense Just walk.
You know, if you have a reasonto be there, then I already said
, there's a law here in ourstate where you have to give
some information.
Outside of that, I'm notfollowing, and I, you know I

(02:17:23):
apologize because I'm not onhere every week I'm not
following the the, the heartburnthere with this ID thing, just
because in my world we only askit when we have a reason to ask,
right?

Speaker 1 (02:17:36):
So I'll give you an example, like in Texas, and
we'll get to Magnum's questionhere.
Um, in Texas I can't like.
Let's say, I get called for um,a person possibly trespassing.
They want this person gone upat the 7-eleven.
I get there.
The dude's out on the sidewalk,he's not on property anymore.
There are tons and tons andtons of videos of officers

(02:18:00):
coming up and they'll go up tothat person.
They'll be like hey, let me getyour id and like to issue a
trespass warning that's whatthey want to do.
They want to issue a trespasswarning.

Speaker 2 (02:18:10):
So they have a lawful .

Speaker 1 (02:18:11):
Lawful reason?
No, because, well, I mean theyhave a lawful reason to be there
.
Somebody called because there'sa person on property that's not
allowed to be there, right, butwhen the officers arrive, that
person's not on property, sothey don't have an offense on
view.
I'll see it would be differentin our state.
So in Texas I can't ID thatperson because just because.

(02:18:32):
Okay, so maybe we can debatethis a little bit in Ohio.
So what you're telling me is inOhio is simply calling the cops
and saying that this person'sdoing something wrong gives you
the right to ID them, and sayingthat this person's doing
something wrong gives you theright to ID them.

Speaker 2 (02:18:46):
If not necessarily if they want to file.
In your example, if they, if,if the owner of the gas station
calls and says, hey, this personhas been harassing customers,
he's, he's, he's panhandling atthe front door and we don't want
him on our property any longer,then we can have you, we, we

(02:19:06):
can have them trespass, fill outa trespass form that would ban
them from that property, right?
Or advise them hey, if you comeback on this property you will
be arrested, type of thing.
So to fill that form out, we'regoing to have to get some ID
from them because we have to putin their pertinent information.

Speaker 1 (02:19:22):
So what if they're not on property when you get
there and it's just the storesaying that, hey, this guy was
here and he keeps being a painin the ass?

Speaker 2 (02:19:30):
We would probably try to verify it with surveillance
video or some otherinvestigative tactic.

Speaker 1 (02:19:35):
But if you hadn't done that, you couldn't force
this guy to ID because he wasn'ton property and you have no
on-view offense other thananother person saying that he
was on property.

Speaker 2 (02:19:46):
Perhaps.
Yes, that's a very yeah.
I mean, every situation isgoing to be different.
Right, I can't say I don't evenknow that we would if we get to
the store and a person like,yeah, they're, they're out there
on the sidewalk, Don't worryabout it anymore, where they
were probably just going to gothe other way and I didn't worry
about it, Right.
But if they're persistent aboutit, hey, we want to file
charges or we want to have thisperson trespassed.

(02:20:07):
Then we're going to followthrough with it.
But I can't speak to everystate, just talk.

Speaker 1 (02:20:11):
Right, okay, so Ohio runs much and I've never lived
in Ohio, for you know obviousreasons it's Ohio.

Speaker 2 (02:20:21):
So same reason I don't live in Michigan.

Speaker 1 (02:20:25):
Well, we wouldn't let you.

Speaker 2 (02:20:29):
So there's a difference.
Now you're not coming on mypodcast.

Speaker 1 (02:20:32):
If I come on your podcast, it's going to be blue
head to toe.

Speaker 2 (02:20:38):
You just can see big Michigan things all over.
I got to deal with it.
Now We've done four episodes.
I got to deal with it.
The very first episode, thevery first episode he signs off
and he says I said uh, chief,you got anything to take us home
.
Whatever you want to sayanything, get us out of here.
He goes, go blue.
I'm like, of course, that'swhat you say, um, okay.

Speaker 1 (02:20:58):
So another question uh, what are your thoughts on
muting body cameras?
Um, we've had this discussion.
I'll tell you my stance weshould never be muting body
cameras, ever.
And my reason behind that is,at least at my department, we
have a team that is there.
For what do they call it?
What's that word?
Banny Redaction, redaction yes,that's their job.

(02:21:20):
So there's no reason for us tobe muting anything in the field.
So there's no reason for us tobe muting anything in the field,
and I've heard the argumentsthat people will make of.
You know well, if we're doingtactical talks or doing this, we
got to do that.
We're discussing juvenileinformation or HIPAA information
, whatever it is.
That's the redaction team's job.
That's what they do, just incase there's some sort of

(02:21:48):
evidentiary value of somethingthat we muted over and now we
can't get that back.
So to me, we should never bemuting our body cameras.
That's my opinion.

Speaker 2 (02:21:54):
Yeah, I think in an organization like yours, where
you're, you have that type of ateam or that type of a group,
that that's all they do, fulltime.
That's probably a very easyargument.
I think the the average agencythat doesn't have that
capability.
They may need more flexibility.
You know, I know for me, likeinterviewing, like a child sex
victim or something like thatwe're not going to shy away from

(02:22:18):
the intermuted.
Having said that, I would sayprobably 95% of our, our
interactions, they don't turnthem off because it's a it takes
too much work to do that yeah,to mute them.

Speaker 1 (02:22:30):
Yeah, it's a pain in the butt to try to mute,
honestly I know there's a mutefunction on our, on ours.
I just don't need.

Speaker 2 (02:22:37):
I mean, I don't even I don't and I'm you know.
They say they can't get thatinformation back, but I don't
know.
I mean these, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:22:46):
Now I see these things can record well even
these new, these new uh, whichis pretty cool when it comes
down to a use of force thatcomes out of nowhere.
Give you an example officergetting off his lunch break,
walking out to his car, gets ina shootout and once it's done,
he reaches up there and taps it.
Well, for all appointedtraining reasons, it got the

(02:23:06):
last 30 seconds to a minute,depending on what that that the
department has, those axons ormotor or whatever they have.
But these new ones that are outnow are taking in and I'm
preaching to the choir, to thepanel, but it takes what's
called fragmented video andaudio throughout the whole time
that this thing is on standbyand that can become amazingly

(02:23:29):
helpful if an officer isblindsided or what have you,
where they can kind of put thepuzzle pieces together and see
that fragmented video of legit,not legit this is kind of the
pieces that happen.
Then they get the closedcircuit video from other
businesses and they kind ofbuild it.
I appreciate that technology.
Now, if I'm off going in myhouse and if I'm a retard that

(02:23:52):
didn't turn my frigging bodycamera to off walking in.
You can't say the R word.
You know what I mean.
I'm talking about anunder-trained officer.
I will call that because I'vebeen there as an under-trained
officer.
I will call him that becauseI've been there as an
under-trained officer and I callmyself that.
That has nothing to do withmental disability.
This is Banning, callingBanning that word when it comes

(02:24:13):
to training.

Speaker 1 (02:24:13):
I'm still getting sensitive.
Now I'm just messing with you.
Let me see here that bufferthat you talked about Banning.

Speaker 6 (02:24:22):
it is useful, it can hurt.
I've seen it hurt people too.
But it can help.
It's helped me for sure beforethat buffer where I got into
something.
I'm like fuck, I didn't turn mycamera on, but then I hit it
real quick and it caught justbefore, right before everything
cracked off, it caught itself.

Speaker 2 (02:24:41):
We got the feature too, which is really cool, where
you pull your taser out or youpull your gun out, and
automatically turns the cameraon, which is which is great from
a training perspective, causenow you don't have to focus on
training the officer to hit thebody camera, draw their gun.

Speaker 4 (02:24:57):
You're talking about the trigger mechanism within the
holster correct.

Speaker 2 (02:25:00):
Yeah, yeah, on both the taser and the gun, so it
clicks on automatically, whichis awesome from a training
perspective to not have to messwith teaching cops to turn it on
and all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:25:09):
Yeah, and to Patrick, true love, cops don't fall
under HIPAA and can't violateHIPAA laws as they aren't
medical personnel.
True.
However, it's still policy andprocedure at departments to not
violate HIPAA laws and I don'twant to get fired.
And too, ethically and morallyit's not right, shouldn't be

(02:25:30):
giving up people's medicalinformation.
So cool, I can't be chargedwith it, I don't want to be
fired and it's not right.
So that's like the argumentthat people try to make.
Well, the Supreme Court ruledthat cops don't have an
obligation to intervene or puttheir life on the line for other
people.

(02:25:50):
Okay, cool, just because theSupreme Court said that doesn't
mean that my oath didn't and myoath means a lot more to me than
what the Supreme Court said.
Just like if the Supreme Courtwas you know, now I won't go
down that road, I won't go downthat road.
I won't go down that road.
I was about to say somereckless stuff.
I won't go that road.
I won't get too recklesstonight.

(02:26:12):
But yeah, it doesn't matter tome that I don't fall under HIPAA
laws because I'm not medical.
It's not right, you shouldn'tdo it.
So I wouldn't want my HIPAAinformation being out there.
So when I have my body cam out.
I'm very cognizant of that.
I don't try to record or do anyof that.
I'll be like, oh, I'm recordingand I'll step out if they got

(02:26:33):
to talk or do whatever.
So let me see going down.
And then somebody had saidsomething about that.
They, they mute intent.
Oh, it was this one.
The evidentiary value is notthere for a reason cops know
when they are wrong and they tryto hide it, just saying, okay,

(02:26:54):
you're speculating, because I'veseen officers, especially young
single officers, do some dumbshit where they'll mute their
thing.
Check that girl out over there,sergeant, I'm like you're an
idiot, fix your camera and thenwe have some training issues.
So it has nothing to do withthat.
But I'm not saying that foreverybody might.

(02:27:18):
What you said could very wellbe true somewhere else.
Um, cops have an obligation toactually do a lot of things like
uphold an oath, protect ourrights under the Constitution.
They fail at that every day forofficer safety and to heck with
civilians.
Eh.
You can say that I've seenofficers do a lot of great

(02:27:38):
things.
Part of the reason we have theHall of Fame for officers
because of the amazing thingsthey're out there doing.
So agree to disagree.

Speaker 6 (02:27:53):
There are several court cases aside with officer
safety, which is I don't know.
People just fail to evenrealize that that's a thing.

Speaker 1 (02:28:02):
Yeah, I'm laughing at Eye of the Knight's comment.
It's okay.
The VA has been hacked so manytimes.
Your medical info is out there.
Yeah, now you guys know aboutmy tinnitus.
Oh shit, what happened, banding?
Are you still there?
Can you hear me?
Yeah, oh man, my computerfreaked out for a second
everything highlighted and andfucking Harrison Brock's in my

(02:28:26):
computer.

Speaker 4 (02:28:27):
If your computer's messing up, it's Alan's fault.

Speaker 1 (02:28:31):
That's true, eric.
She says that because theexceptionalism is the exception,
not the rule.
True Scott, thanks for comingtonight.
Good show you guys.
Everyone have a good week.
Thanks, ozark Moon.
Thank you Appreciate that.
Good show you guys.
Everyone have a good week.
Thanks, ozark Moon.
Thank you appreciate that.
Sometimes your head is in thesand.

(02:28:51):
Possibly I am optimistic to afault.
Y'all is what it is so, butwith that, I'm just giving
everybody their last secondchance to say stuff we have
roughly a million.
I always use this example righthere, bro.
With that, I'm just givingeverybody their last second
chance to say stuff we haveroughly a million.

Speaker 6 (02:29:06):
LAOs.
I always use this example righthere, bro.
There's about a million lawenforcement officers nationwide.
1% are probably bad and 1% isstill a huge number, yeah 350
million calls for service eachyear.

Speaker 1 (02:29:23):
I think it's like .006% of those lead to a use of
force ora complaint.
So things to consider.
I could throw stats at you guysall day.
That's it still doesn't helpwhen we have hundreds and
hundreds of videos, uh, that weget to see all the time of cops
screwing up, and that's why wehave this show.
Let's talk about the goodthings they do, but let's talk

(02:29:45):
about the bad things and try tolearn from them.
How do we fix them?
That's part of why we do whatwe
do.
All right, guys, we're at twoand a half hours.
I want to chat with these guysoffline as soon as we get off
here.
But everybody else, thank youfor being out here Harrison
Brock, country Girl and theother ones Anybody else that I

(02:30:07):
may have missed that tried tothrow some fundage our way.
If you guys like what we'redoing, please, it is free to
just hit that like and subscribebutton on any of our platforms.
Youtube one helps us out themost, but if you're an Instagram
person, run over there, followus on Instagram.
Just look up 2Cops One Donut.
If you have Apple or Spotify orany of the other little podcast

(02:30:33):
things.
Give us a follow, subscribe tous on there too, because when it
downloads, those numbers comeback to us and it helps us there
too.
Believe it or not, we reallydon't kill it in downloads.
Most of our numbers come fromour social media stuff and what
we're doing here, but we wouldlove for you guys to support,
and for anybody that has themonetary financial freedom
Harrison Brock, be sure tomember up on our YouTube channel

(02:30:58):
, because anybody that getsgrandfathered in once DTV hits
the road, you guys are going toget tracked over there for free.
So we've and we've got somesurprises coming down the road
for the DTV stuff.
Um, done and done, but I don't.
Instagram, thanks, never, nevergives me shit all the time too,
so I'm just.
The fact that you're followingme never makes me feel like

(02:31:19):
we're making some progression.
So I like that.
Uh, scott, any closing words,sir?

Speaker 2 (02:31:26):
no, sir, appreciate it.
It's late here, so, uh, youknow this has been a good, uh, a
good, a good opportunity tocome on and uh happy to come on
anytime you, uh, you need a lastminute guest who has a face for
radio.
Yeah banning.

Speaker 1 (02:31:41):
You got anything, buddy?

Speaker 4 (02:31:42):
no, uh, my dad always told me I had a great face for
radio, and I love that comment,nice, I would ask Trey, but I
see his kids still sleeping.

Speaker 1 (02:31:51):
Okay, trey, if you want to say something, you can.
I just don't want to wake yourkid up, that's all.
I'm trying to be kind.

Speaker 6 (02:31:56):
No, he's out, but no, I ain't got nothing.
No.

Speaker 1 (02:31:58):
Okay, all everybody appreciate you guys tonight.
Gina Maria would love to buy ahoodie.

Speaker 4 (02:32:05):
Thank you all for staying in all your comments.
We appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (02:32:07):
Yes, thank you guys.
Everybody, have a good night,take it easy.

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