Policing California's Immigration Crisis: A Law Enforcement Perspective

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:20):
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Two Cops One Donut and its hostdo not accept any liability for
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Thank you for listening.
All right, welcome back to CopsOne Donut.

(00:50):
I am your host, Eric Levine,With me today.
I have some special guests withme today.
First and foremost, one youalready know Deadleg.
How you doing, brother, the dayof paradise, I love it.
I have the one the only Fridayswith Frank Frank Sloan.
What's going on?
What's going on?
Guys, Got a dream out there,brother.
And then, special arrival,tonight is probably the man of

(01:11):
the hour, the former Sheriff,Mark Lamb, America Sheriff.
What's?
going on, brother.
Thanks for having me on.
Hey, I appreciate you Very,very last minute deciding to
jump on because we were actuallykind of hurting for uh, who we
were gonna have on tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Um, so what you're saying.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
So now in other words I was at the bottom of the
barrel yes, it was right from meyeah more of.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
He's too good for us.
I don't think he'll say yes.
So I ask him.
And you surprised me.
I was was like holy shit.
If you guys don't know, we aredefinitely all friends off the
camera and give each other a lotof shit, so be prepared for
that.
Tonight it's going to be fun.
And today's topics let me.

(02:00):
Let me just run right into whatwe plan on hitting up today.
First, we're going to talkabout what's going on over in
California, and no, we're notgoing to get into the politics
of it, we're just going to talkabout it from the policing
perspective, things you may nothave thought of and ways that us
cops kind of look at that.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Says you, I may dive into some of the political stuff
, but they're not your beliefs.
I'll just preemptive that.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Now.
That's actually in mydisclaimer.
I heard, it.
Yeah, so, um, yeah, so we'regoing to be getting that going.
Um, and to Mark and Frank,you're going to be hearing a lot
or seeing a lot of comments andquestions on the side.
Feel free at any time to uhaddress some questions or things
that they may want to ask orsay.

(02:41):
Um, I will point out some stuffas well along the way and then
later on we're going to begetting into what the show is
kind of about and that is doing,um, the body cam reviews.
So what we'll do is we'll watchbody cam video that we've never
seen before.
If one of us happens to haveseen it before, we'll we'll bow
out, but as the video progresseswe will tell you how us as cops

(03:03):
, would respond, as the callsdeveloping versus Monday morning
quarterbacking and knowing theoutcome and all that stuff.
So it kind of gives you aunique insight on how police
training is, how it differsslightly across the nation
because we're all from differentwalks of the earth when it
comes to our police training.
And then it also kind of showsyou how we're all very similar,

(03:25):
how we can take different pathsto get to the same end goal.
So it's fun, and then the wholething is for y'all to
participate, but no, first thingI want to do is let's get into
our guests, for those that mightnot know who you are, so I'm
going to go with Sheriff Lambfirst.
Sheriff, can you give a littlebit of background how you got

(03:45):
into the law enforcement andwhat you're doing in the space
today?
Yeah, sheriff.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
Mark Lamb, american Sheriff, better known as Frank's
boss that's probably how Idescribe myself.
Now I've been the sheriff ofPinal County, which is between
Phoenix and Tucson, probably thethird.
It's the third largest countyin the state of Arizona.
There's only 15 counties.
I never set out to be a cop.
I actually got into it late inlife, was 34, 33, went on a ride

(04:13):
along, came home, woke my wifeup that morning and said honey,
I'm going to be a cop.
And six months later I was inthe academy, 34 years old, and
so I started.
A little bit later.
I came from the businessbackground, which I think
actually really helped me when Igot into the leadership portion
of my career.
I think having been in businessgave me a very different

(04:36):
perspective of how we should runthe agency, how to treat your
employees, how to really marketwhat we were doing in Pinal
County, market guys like Frank,all of that stuff we did, and
that comes from the businessbackground.
So I was blessed enough to wintwo elections.
The reason I'm not the sheriff,the reason it's former sheriff
or retired sheriff, is because Iran for the US Senate, was

(04:58):
unsuccessful in the primary,lost.
I couldn't run for both.
So on December 31st I had toretire, which has been a little
bit different, but I'm out inthe private sector building some
businesses, doing someconsulting, and it's all good, I
like it, I like it.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
And what is different from a chief of police?
So I like to do a little bit ofeducation for people that
wonder, like, what's thedifference between a chief and a
sheriff?
A sheriff is an electedposition, so you actually are
representing the people thatwonder, like, what's the
difference between a chief and asheriff?
A sheriff is an electedposition, so you actually are
representing the people thatwant you there, for that county
versus a municipal chief is.
They're picked by the citymanager and the mayor, basically

(05:36):
, and they work at the pleasureof the mayor.
I believe that's how it is atmost places.
So you don't necessarily get asmuch of a say when it comes to
that.
And then, when it comes tojurisdiction, who trumps who
Sheriff?
Is it city police or is it thesheriff?

Speaker 3 (05:55):
Oh, it's the sheriff.
I know the sheriff is the kingof the county, like he's the
highest law enforcement in thecounty.
While we respect thejurisdiction, ultimately,
whatever city it falls withinour county, and the people, all
the people, regardless of whatcity you live in, if you live in
the county, you elect thesheriff to be the highest law

(06:16):
enforcement official in thecounty.
And so you know, you're tryingnot to step on toes, you want to
get along with everybody, butthe sheriff is the top guy.
Sheriff is elected by thepeople.
I do always say because I hearpeople say well, the chief can't
say what they want to saybecause they're, they're, they
work for the city council and Ialways say, yes, they can, they

(06:36):
choose the job.
If they say it, they may losetheir job, whereas the sheriff,
I can say it and you may have tovote me out in four years or
three years, however long it isto the next election.
A chief can also say what theywant to say, but they run the
risk of losing their job andmore of you know a lot of them
are more concerned about losingthe job than saying what needs

(06:56):
to be said Right, and that'spart of my issue with some, some
chiefs out there is the lack ofthe backbone and when they have
that.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
Some chiefs, some chiefs.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Like all chiefs, hey, hey.
Pick one that says his mind asmuch as any sheriff, especially
sheriffs out of Florida sheriffsout of Arizona.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
No, no, no.
No, I'm not comparing the two.
I'm saying that not all chiefslack the backbone.
What hell, okay, sheriff, youtell me this.
Here's kind of the thing thatI'm wondering.
If you have a chief that issupported by the people, I would
think the public pressure wouldlimit the ability for that
mayor or city manager to doanything to them.

Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yeah, you're right, and what it is is.
It starts in the beginning.
If you come in and say, look,this is what I believe, this is
what I stand for, we're going tosupport our guys.
We're going to be aggressive inour approach to law enforcement
.
We're not going to tolerateillegal behavior, people
breaking the law.
You set that ground rules rightfrom the beginning so that as

(08:02):
you go along, that's what theyexpect, expect.
I think what a lot of timeshappens is they get more and
more frustrated and then maybethey say something you didn't
start off that way.
You start off a little bit morecautious, so anybody does like.
It's just the nature of thebeast.
Everybody starts off a littlecautious in a new job.
But I think the bet, the moreyou do to establish right from

(08:22):
the beginning where you stand,what you believe in, what you're
going to tolerate, what you'renot going to tolerate, how
you're going to support yourguys all that starts from the
get-go and I've seen a few guysdo it well.
Sheriffs obviously were in abetter position to do it.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yeah, I agree, frank.
What has been your experiencewith Chief, with chiefs versus,
uh, sheriffs?
Have you worked for chiefs?

Speaker 2 (08:49):
Very early on in my career.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
I did.
And then I very quickly, Ithink just kind of like sheriff,
said you, you find your placeand you, you know you're, you're
cautious.
When you first started and I Istarted out working for a
municipal agency realized that Iwas not meant to be a city cop,
um, and that I was just I was.
I was meant and built to be adeputy sheriff, and that's

(09:16):
that's where I ended up, um, andthen found out how, um, how
sheriffs work.
I I started my career undersheriff Joe Arpaio, which was
was gave himself the title ofAmerica's toughest sheriff, um,
and worked for him for years.
And while working for him.
Um, it was the first time thatI saw a sheriff use media and
realized how powerful it is.
And you know, and people wouldtrash talk, sheriff Joe is

(09:37):
always being on the news andbeing, you know, media hungry.
But what I saw in that was hishow he used that to show his
constituency that he was workingfor them, that he was doing
exactly what he was elected todo.
And that was before, so wellbefore social media.
In the early 2000s, that was theplatform that was available to

(09:58):
him to show the people of, atthe time, maricopa County, to
show the citizens of MaricopaCounty hey, you elected me to do
this job, to maintain law andorder, to maintain a jail.
This is what I'm doing.
This is what I'm doing.
These are your wishes that I'mcarrying out.
And obviously he was insanelypopular in that and using that
medium to get that informationout In the new time of social

(10:21):
media.
I think that was probably takenover by my, my previous boss,
who used again social media toshow what we were doing with the
, with the sheriff's office, andhow we were serving the public
and keeping the citizens safeand and doing their will through
his policies and proceduresdown to us at the deputy level.
So I think that that's justthat's.

(10:42):
That's that's the essence ofbeing a deputy sheriff or being
a sheriff or working for apublic official is is, you know,
publicly elected official is isthat benefit?

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Gotcha Deadleg, where were you in, were you I?

Speaker 5 (10:55):
was a fed in Hawaii, and then I worked for Ohio State
University's Department ofPublic Safety.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Oh, ok, so you was a fed cop.
Ok, that'll work later, fromwhen we start talking about some
of this other stuff uh,slightly, slightly different uh,
abilities and different ruleset.
Mr billfold said the biggestchange is at a local level and a
sheriff's a pretty good placeto start holding police
accountable.
I have a great relationshipwith my sheriff after bad

(11:21):
encounters with prior sheriff.
Um, and and that's kind of oneof the things we cultivate here
Uh, sheriff, is we this?
This platform is not a echochamber for cops.
It's the last thing we want.
We want to have the toughconversations.
We want to have the.
You know, there are some copsout there that we've seen not
doing their duties as theyshould be doing.

(11:42):
There's there's bad training,things of that nature, things
that we want to do, and one ofthe things I've leaned on is the
sheriffs typically set thestandards across the nation.
The sheriffs are the ones thatif they see a city cop
overstepping, violatingconstitutional rights, you see
your sheriffs come in and callit out, call it for what it is.

(12:04):
There was a great video that Iposted the other day of a statey
going like 105.
And who pulls him over.
A deputy Deputy pulls him over,says hey, dude, like what's the
deal?
You're going 105.
You don't have your lights andsirens on.
And the statey tells him mindyour business and then pulls off
from him.
The deputy writes up a goodreport, sends it up to the

(12:27):
sheriff.
The sheriff calls the localjournalist, gets it put out
there, starts an IAinvestigation with the state
police, turns out the and theyrelease his name.
And I'm like that's a sheriff.
That's what sheriffs do.
They hold accountability whenit needs to be.
So that is one of the thingsthat me as a city cop.
I kind of look at the way goodsheriffs run their department

(12:49):
and I'm like, damn, that's thething that we're missing out
here.
So people are bitching at mebecause it's Monday.
I know, listen, guys, I can't.
I have a new position at workso I haven't figured out what
day I'm going to be doing thelive streams.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
Hey new position at work, so I haven't figured out
what day I'm going to be doingthe live streams.
Hey, congratulations on that,by the way.
Thank you very much.
I didn't hear it from you.
I had to hear it from a mutualfriend of ours because you don't
call, you don't write.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
I told all my friends .
I told all my friends, oh.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
That hurt right here, right under this flamingo.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
What do you expect from a guy who wants two cops
but only brings one donut?
Well, that's true, planned onnot sharing in the beginning.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
No, I want it to be just like Lady and the Tramp
with the noodle, with you in thehole.
We'll meet in the middle at thehole, take that, however, you
want.
I'll let your imagination runwild.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
What happened?
What happened to you?

Speaker 1 (13:48):
Oh, you know, Been hanging out with you too much,
that's a little bit of truth tothat.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
I just saw somebody mention Donnie Youngblood.
That's a great sheriff outthere in California Kern County.
There's a lot of great sheriffsacross this country that are
doing it right, protecting theConstitution.
We have to support them.
There's a lot of great sheriffsacross this country that are
doing it right protecting theconstitution.

Speaker 4 (14:06):
Um we have to support them, that's true.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
Somebody, you guys, whoever made the comment, said
it best changing everything,protecting our, our, our daily
way of life is a local thing.
They want to make you thinkthat the senators and
congressmen in was DC make ourlife go up or down.
It's really local politics andthat does start with putting in
a good sheriff and a good countyattorney or DA or whatever you

(14:34):
guys call them across thecountry.
But that's where you start offat.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Yeah, yep, agreed, all right.
So on the sheriff side ofthings, now that you're done and
you're out there speaking topeople and whatnot, we'll get
into what's going on out therein California.
So for those that don't know,they have ICE agents going

(14:58):
around and they are enforcingall of the illegal immigration
stuff.
So I'm not going to get intothe politics on it, but what I
want to get into is some of myfrustrations with the things
that I've seen, some of the goodpractices that I've seen, at
least in the state of Texas,versus what I'm hearing.
And this, again, it's just whatI'm hearing.

(15:19):
I don't know this for a fact.
That's going out in Californiaand you guys all have friends
out there.
We've all talked to people andwe have a different pulse about
what's going on.
So I'll get into what.
One of my biggest pet peeveswith what I see right now, what
is pissing me off as I see ICEagents.
Now, we've all worked aroundfeds.

(15:39):
None of them ever run aroundwith something that says police
on it.
It will say what they are U SMarshall, fbi, uh, u S border
patrol, whatever it is.
It will say their stuff.
However, we have this issueover here in California.
Every time they're showingsomething on the media, it just

(16:00):
says police.
They're all masked up, which Iget, because they're getting
docs and they they're gettingthreats to their, their safety,
their family safety, all of thatstuff.
You know I get that.
But when you put out there thatit just shows police across it,
why doesn't it say you know,immigration enforcement,
something that shows theiragency?

(16:20):
It says police.
Now, frank, have you seen that?
Have you?
Do you know anything about whyit says police?
Now, frank, have you seen that?
Have you?
Do you know anything about whyit says police?

Speaker 2 (16:27):
I.
I don't um and I think it's.
I mean I, I.
We work with a lot of agents.
Um like hsi is a big thing thatthat we deal with here in
panell county and can youexplain hsi what that stands for
uh?
homeland security investigations.
They're the, for as far as Iunderstand they are the
investigative branch of HomelandSecurity and we do stuff like

(16:53):
like ICAC or Internet CrimesAgainst Children, stuff like
that with them, in conjunctionwith them, and I always see
agent on on theirs.
So it doesn't specifically sayHomeland Security investigations
, it just says agent Right, soas kind of a cover all.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
But not police Right.
That's so like.
It's very rare, Sheriff Lamb.
What do you think?

Speaker 3 (17:08):
It doesn't bother me as much.
They're out doing the policejob for the most part.
Sometimes it's a task force, somaybe they are cops, they're
part of the task force, althoughI don't see a lot of 287 G task
force, and certainly not inCalifornia.
California has state laws andsaid't you can't work with ice,
which is a real problem rightnow with what's going on out

(17:29):
there in California, los Angeles.
You know, I believe sometimespeople are just not how do I put
this Don't always the sharpesttools in the in the toolbox, and
so they aren't always thesharpest tools in the toolbox.
And so sometimes you got tojust bring it down a level and
just make it simple police asopposed to HSI agent.

(17:52):
People are going to be likewhat is an HSI agent or what is
an ERO agent?
They don't know.
And sometimes it's just thatsimple to put police and people
cannot say later on well, well,I didn't know, it was the cops,
they had police on their vest,they had police on the back.
You knew it was law enforcementthat's a fair point.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
That's a fair point, yeah, and I I understand that.
It's just like I said.
Every time I see any of thesethree-letter agencies, that's's
exactly what you see it's theiragency, but yet for this they're
going out there with police onthere To me, like we're seeing
the police themselves LAPD.
They're kind of stuck inbetween this position of that's

(18:37):
not their job, that's a federalagency out doing federal work,
with a different boss, adifferent set of rules,
regulations and laws, andthey're getting lumped in with
something that they don't haveanything to do with.
And I think part of that issueis with their stuff saying
police dead leg.
What do you think about that?

Speaker 5 (18:58):
I'm trying to think of because most everything I've
done is all federal.
So I'm trying to think of allthe different federal agencies
that I've worked alongside ofand every time I've ever worked
with them they've always had,like what they are, a couple of
times that, like the marshalservice will say us marshals
police, but it'll say usmarshals on it.
The one thing that I couldthink of is, like there, the, if
there's a confusion whetherthey're being detained to be

(19:20):
deported or to being arrested,and that that police problem
there, the, the bigger problemin california is there's,
there's, there's no cooperationand at the end of the day, we're
all law enforcement.
So let's say there's a massshooting that goes on, that gets
dispatched at the lapd.
I guarantee every federal agentthat's got a radio that's
working, they're going to runright there to the backup.

(19:42):
So when you have ICE and HSIdoing these investigations and
they're trying to detain thesepeople and shit starts hitting
the fan, they're hitting thatpanic button and LAPD is not
there for them.
That's the weird quandary whereI'm in.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
Okay, yeah, and that's what stinks right now is
they're getting put between thetwo jobs.
Now, sheriff, let's say yourguys are out there.
We're talking, this ishappening in Pinal and ICE is
out there running doing theirthing and all of a sudden, all
these protesters come out.
How is the communication goingto be prior to that?

(20:17):
After that, in the middle ofthat, with you and the ICE
agents?

Speaker 3 (20:22):
Well, I'm going to hit on a couple of things.
First of all, that wouldn'thappen in Pinal County because
we'd stuff it out right from theget-go.
When people start showing upwith masks and all these things,
certainly if you start throwingbricks at cars, let alone law
enforcement cars, you're goingto be held accountable.
That is just simply against thelaw.
But here's where I have aproblem.

(20:43):
I have a little bit of aproblem.
My wife actually brought it up.
She's like look, how do theyknow when terrorists are about
ready to commit these terroristacts?
They're all over social media,but you're going to tell me they
don't know that thousands ofpeople are going to show up to a
street.
That is being organized online.
Like, this is what the FBIshould be dedicating their time

(21:06):
to not going after Americancitizens.
And I get that they're in atransitional period, but this is
what the FBI should be focusedon.
Like, hey, we're getting someIntel, but there's going to be
some large groups showing up totry to get in the way of ICE and
we can start to mobilize.
But it almost feels like nobodysaid anything, like nobody
tipped anybody off, and so thenit became a real problem.

(21:27):
And they didn't.
La is not going to be the guysthat are going to sorry, I got
to fly flying around LA isprobably not going to be the
best place.
Lapd is a phenomenal agency,one of the best in the country
but it's probably not going tobe the place where you're going
to have a ton of communitysupport for shutting something
down like this right away.
And so being able to, you know,get as much intel before these

(21:51):
kind of things happen is veryimportant, and I just feel like
there's got to be somebody thatknew that a big group of people
is going to show up and startthrowing stuff at ICE agents and
doing all that stuff.
And I'm not blaming anybody, I'mnot blaming LAPD.
Like I said, the state createdthis when they said the federal
law or the state law enforcementcan't work with the feds, and

(22:13):
what do you expect?
There's going to be a lack ofcommunication, and then there's
going to be this pause like hey,are we able to jump in here, or
are we violating a state law?
If we do, and so it's just areal problem.
That's why I say it wouldn'thappen here.
It's not happening in redstates, not happening in alabama
, it's not happening in otherplaces.
You know where it's happening,in blue cities.

(22:35):
That's the reality of it,because they they know that
these blue politicians have beenweak and they are not leading
and they're leaving us in lawenforcement out there like
sitting ducks.
So, not a fan of what's going onin LA and I'm not a fan of the
people in charge in LA and Ithink they share a lot of the

(22:56):
blame, as do a lot of theseother politicians who have been
going around calling ICE theGestapo.
What do you think citizens?
They feel emboldened to go outand stop them, when you have
equated them to the Gestapo.
So this should have been.
You know, they should bedealing with some of these
people who are inciting theseriots and it's a failure on a

(23:18):
local level and a state levelfrom those politicians like
Mayor Bass and Gavin Newsom.
And with that frigging, I'lllet it go.
I know I got a couple amens,thank you.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
I think my mom was one of them actually.
No, I do.
I get what you're saying and Ithink this is a good litmus test
to show people what happenswhen the communication between
law enforcement agencies fail.
And this is one of those wherethey're not communicating

(23:54):
properly or they're notcommunicating the best way that
they can.
Because, just like you said,federal agencies they're
listening to the ordersbasically of the president,
federal agencies they don't.
They don't they're listening tothe orders basically the
president, and that has nothingto do with what the state and
their mission is.
And then that feud between themis causing a safety concern for

(24:15):
the PDs that are out there.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
Well, the state has said they're not going to do it,
so it is the federalgovernment's job.
The state shouldn't besurprised when the federal
government comes in to do thejob and the people that they
were removing that kind ofprecipitated.
All the riots started becausethey started arresting these
people.
They're freaking dirtbags.
They were dirtbags of the firstclass and had orders of removal

(24:40):
and deserved to be removed.
And then all these other peopleshowed up and I guarantee you
they're paid agitators, most ofthem.
They're being paid by politicalgroups that benefit by causing
all sorts of chaos.
We saw it the first time aroundunder the Trump administration
and anytime you see these thingsgoing on, you can bet they're

(25:02):
paid agitators these thingsgoing on.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
You can bet they're paid agitators, and I have
personal experience with this,so one of my specialties for
where I work is Just found areally great deep dive here.
What the hell was that?

Speaker 2 (25:16):
That was me.
I'm actually, I'm looking up.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
He's on Instagram.
He's bored already.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
That's actually.
I am on Instagram.
He's on Instagram.
He's bored.
Already talking about a deepdive into the finances behind
these riots, linked it back to aorganization pretty much the
socialist party based out herein the United States.
She put a whole post up aboutit, so I was looking that up to

(25:58):
get her name.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
And those are the groups they should take down.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yep, she's a representative out of Florida,
so again, a red state where thisisn't happening, just like it's
not happening in arizona.
Um, but she, she really broughtto light, uh, some of the
funding streams and where theseare coming from.
So that's why I was looking upyeah, um what I was getting
great about is I'm trained inmobile field force.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
it's one of the things that I do.
I've worked the rncs and thedncs, uh, several times times as
a mobile field force bikeofficer.
One of the things Seattlepolice if you guys have ever
seen, seattle police is a mobilefield force on bikes.
They're they're probably whatis considered the cream of the
crop.
They can clear city streets inseconds with their bike unit.

(26:38):
It's amazing, but anyway, oneof the things that we ran into.
We did have an incident whereI'm at where we ended up making
like 50 arrests or so and cometo find out every single person
that we were running through thejail.
None of them were locals.
They were all shipped in, andthat was the first time in my

(26:58):
life, in my entire 19-year lawenforcement career, where I'm
like, oh my God, like all theconspiracy theories that I've
heard, like this is a true thing, like they did.
They shipped them out here andnone of them were.
A lot of them weren't even fromthe state.
Texas is huge and and so thatgoes.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
I think they'd all be from Austin.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
Yeah, so I have firsthand personal experience
that I can attest to that.
Yeah, a lot of times theseantagonists and those are the
ones that you want to pluck fromthe crowds the antagonists are
not from your local area, theyare there for that.
They are there to cause thatshenanigans that you see going
on um and and who's the who'sdropping off the pallets?

(27:44):
Of bricks, bricks and stuff Isaw that.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
I saw that post today also and look I don't know man
with ai and stuff.
It's really hard to know whatthe truth is anymore.
But I will say I'm like we knowthey're paid agitators.
They were doing like all the2020 riots and during all this
other stuff and, frankly, if youshow up and you got a mask on,
you're obviously hiding yourface from something You're up to

(28:07):
no good.
Here's what the First Amendmentsays.
The First Amendment says youhave the right to peaceably
assemble and to addressgrievances, to redress
grievances with your government.
First of all, that does nothappen after hours.
That should be happening duringhours.
That's when your government isthere and it's to peaceably
assemble.
And the left seems to be verysilent right now, other than to

(28:31):
say it's President Trump's faultabout.
I know you don't want to getinto politics, but somebody said
on the comments there is no wayto talk about this without
digging into politics, becausethat's what we're seeing here.
We're seeing politicians onbehalf of their to push their
party agenda, allow this kind ofstuff to happen in DC and throw

(28:54):
gas on the fire instead ofdealing with it.
That's what Newsom should bedoing.
If you don't want NationalGuard in in your state, then
deal with your problem.
Get your guys out there andtell give them a truck full of
brown water to shoot out of awater cannon and, uh, you'll

(29:15):
just start to spell people realquick, with a little e coli to
go with it you can't be doingchemical warfare, sir.
Oh geez, but it would be funnyto make it brown water.
It could still be clean water,but make it brown so they don't
think it's clean Psychologicalwarfare, make them dust.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
So, eric, to your point.
In 2016, I arrested threeprotesters that blocked the road
to a Trump rally the very firsttime.
He ran just outside ofScottsdale in a small town
called Fountain Hills, and outof the three people that I
arrested, none of the three werefrom Arizona, and they were all
paid protesters.
So it's it is so.

(30:03):
It happened as far back as theprotests against Trump in 2016.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yeah, and we have these protests going on in Texas
, so I don't want to sit hereand pretend like there's no
protests going on, but they'repeaceful.
You can assemble 5,000 peopleand no one is going to pay it
any mind as long as you chill.
But the moment you start I meanman, I saw lapd.
They got pinned underneath anoverpass on the freeway throwing

(30:31):
rocks down on cars destroyed.
So that goes this is the otherpart who who's gonna pay for the
cars you just destroyed?
Your own cars, your own taxdollars, and that's another.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
They don they don't see it like that.
They see it as government money.
They're completely detachedfrom the idea that government
money is their tax dollarsBecause, frankly, most of those
folks don't pay taxes, so theydon't equate that to being their
tax dollars.
It's not how they see things.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
If the government gives them a check for doing
nothing throughout the month,saying, hey, we want you to stay
at home, here's a disabilitycheck, or whatever, a lot of
those people think that is magicgovernment money and not
hard-working taxpayer dollarmoney, and that's a major
disconnect in this, in thissociety and in another part of

(31:23):
this, of of the cops beingplayed as pawns and this is one
of the reasons I think they'rebeing played, and I'll say it
this way is their, theirgovernment officials show up to
these facilities where they'rebeing held, where the uh, the
people that are being arrestedare held, and they want to go
see the conditions of theprisoners and they're not

(31:44):
letting them in and people areup in arms about that and I
would really want to ask thequestion when did you ever go
look at how the prisoners arebeing treated in your own cities
?
The people you've arrested?
I guarantee they have never,ever once, went to check on the

(32:06):
conditions of the americanprisoners in their own city.
And now, all of a sudden,you're concerned about the
conditions of these people thatare being arrested.

Speaker 5 (32:11):
I think we're reacting to the same text oh, oh
, I didn't see it.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Which one were you reacting to?

Speaker 5 (32:18):
oh, alan just landed.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
He's looking for a shirt oh, okay, all right, I
gotta put this one out there.
I deleted, I think all of them,but maybe the one on twitch.
So, sheriff and frank, thiswill be a funny for you guys.
Alan nelson is my behind thescenes tech guy.
Okay, um, he's a police officerin, uh, podunk, texas I'll give

(32:42):
you that this is a small area,but, um, he is a tech guru.
He's one of our tech guys and heis building this computer and
wanted to test run a live streamon all of our platforms
simultaneously.
Well, he didn't realize thatthe camera was running or
something like that, and he wasshirtless and just staring and

(33:03):
not doing anything awkwardly fora few minutes and then realized
he's live streaming and endedit.
But that was on the internetfor a good 15, 20 minutes before
we realized.
So we got a lot of people onhere that.
Yeah, mr Bill Fodor alreadysaid it, this is a common
hashtag.
I sit with Alan.
But this is a common hashtag, Isit with Alan.

(33:25):
So good old Al was out thereburying all for everybody to see
, at least from the tits up, andwe've been given.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
A man's chest should never be described as tits.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
We've been given.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
It's just terrible.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
Let's just say, the sun has not seen that body in
quite some time.
He was a very pasty, pasty man,yeah, but uh, anyway, back to
back to topic here.
Um, okay, so go ahead.

Speaker 5 (33:57):
Yeah, like cops.
Yeah, like the cops that you'reout there on the street.
They have absolutely nothing todo with policy.
They don't make any of thosedecisions, they're not in any of
those meetings.
So the people that are yellingat them in their face and give
them the you can go, do that toa wall has the same effect,

(34:20):
because the people that you needto be doing are the people that
you elected into thosepositions in the first place.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Because the people that you need to be doing are
the people that you elected intothose positions in the first
place.
Yeah, yeah, agreed, and that'sthe hard part out here, for the
police is like how do you?
You can't.
They're not even explaining,they can't.
The cops can't defendthemselves as far as it goes to
explanation.
So you would hope the chiefsare out there explaining.
You would hope the sheriffs areout there explaining.

(34:44):
Now and that's another questionI got for you Sheriff Lamb is,
let's say, lapd and the issuesthey're having in the city.
What is your role as thesheriff?
Because it's within your county.
How do you address that?

Speaker 3 (34:59):
Well, the sheriff can go out and do something about
it.
You know he's going to workwith LAPD.
Obviously they're not trying tobe at odds with each other,
especially in the middle of ariot.
You don't want to get into apissing match with, you know,
your local police chief.
But the sheriff certainly canallocate some of the resources.
We saw that in, you know, whenVillanueva was there in LA

(35:20):
County, when they wouldn't, whenthe cities wouldn't clean up
the homelessness, he startedgoing and clean it up and,
frankly, that's one of thethings that they used against
him to try to get him unelectedwhen when the guy that's
currently there ran against him.
So you know it's, there'salways going to be political
ramifications, but the sheriff'sjob is to just do the job.

(35:42):
Like politics be damned, yougot to do it and let the
consequences follow.
And that's part of being anhonorable person is do what is
right, no matter what theconsequences are.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, I agree.
I mean, man, you would thinkthat that would be more
prominent in police work, justby the guys we talk to out there
day to day.
But for whatever reason, thehigher up up you get, they talk
a big game behind the scenes,but when it comes to actually
shitting or getting off the pot,they, they never follow through

(36:13):
.
And I don't understand, I don'tget it.
Um, because I guarantee the daythat one of them steps up and
and says what the majority oftheir people in their city or
county agree with, they're goingto defend them and they're
going to back.
I would hope that they backthem up.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
Well, self-preservation.
It plays a big part in that.
You know, people are morereally.
When it comes down to it,they're preserving themselves,
preserving the job, the moneythat comes in every month.
But there's a lot of people outthere that are willing to say
it, you know you take like agrady judd when somebody says,

(36:52):
hey, why did?
you shoot him 60 times and youanswer because we ran out of
ammo.
That's just straight up brassones, you know, like right and
and but, but he has more supportthan ever.
You can ask frank we never wenever kowtowed to anybody.
We were always focused onprotecting constitutional rights
, protecting our community,doing those things.
But we never said, oh, all wegot to do is politically

(37:13):
advantageous.
We never did that.
And what happened?
We had a ton of support, anoverwhelming amount of support.
People are looking for thatrealness, that authenticity.
Even the people that didn'tagree with me on everything,
they were still grateful that wewere willing to stand up for
what we believed in.
And it's palpable when you doit the right way.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah, and I think that's one of the draws to what
we do on here is I don't alwaysagree with everybody that either
comes on the show.
I don't always agree with whatsome of our members that follow
us say, Um, and they don'talways agree with me, vice versa
, but it's the ability to havethe real conversations.
Hey, we might not agree, but atleast we can have the talk.
And we've gotten we've gottenseveral people on here that

(37:58):
start off as trolls.
They start trolling and wedon't.
We don't kick them off.
I love that.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
Somebody.
Somebody was attacked Like.
Somebody made a comment aboutGrady Judd because they don't
have body cameras.
Well, I'm going to tell youright now we didn't have body
cameras in Pinal County either.
And, first of all, the taxpayerdoesn't doesn't pay taxes to
send a body camera to a call.
They pay to send a deputy to acall camera to a call.

(38:27):
They pay to send a deputy to acall.
So unless you have anoverwhelming amount of deputies
where you no longer need morestaff and you can afford to
spend millions of dollars on acamera, I think the camera has
slowly eroded the trust inpolice officers to a certain
extent.
Where it used to be, when apolice officer would go in and
testify, now they only want tosee the body camera and you
could show it to 12 jurors and12 jurors will have 12 different

(38:48):
opinions of what the bodycamera says.
It does help in some ways.
I'm not against them.
I'm just saying my primaryresponsibility is to ensure that
I have the resources to send apolice officer or a deputy to
your residence.
I think more people areconcerned with that and when I
get enough staffing then you canlook at doing, you know, body

(39:11):
cameras.
But I don't think that attackingsomebody because they don't
want to have body cameras I meanpolicing was done for a long
time before bodies cameras camealong and it was done very well.
So it's not a sign of whetheryou know you're trying to hide
from something or not.
It's just not.
That's just not a plausiblething and, frankly, if anybody

(39:32):
doesn't trust the police,they're more than welcome to
wear a body camera.
Nobody's going to stop them.
But I don't think the taxpayersshould pay for the distrust of
one or two people.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
So, um, I I'll push back a little as a person that
wears a body camera where is?
I've wore one since about 20,20, 2009.
I think that's when I got myfirst one, 2009.
So, um, no, yeah, somewhere inthere, somewhere when the iphone
came out, I know that.
Um, but that's when I got myfirst body camera and I can tell

(40:03):
you that the the fruits of thatlabor paid off immediately.
Um false allegation type thingpopped up body cam, squashed it
very quickly.
Um, I got to the point nowwhere, if I go out and patrol, I
and I forget my camera.
It's charging on the dock orwhatever.
I can tell you, I feel nakedand afraid without my body cam.

(40:23):
I immediately turn around andgo grab it.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
Look at what cameras have done now.
Now you're thinking about thatwhen you go out to do a job that
is very dangerous.
You got to negotiate and juggle.
Another thing Like I said, I'mnot against body cameras, but
there's a lot of people that areon here making comments, but
they've never been in aleadership role.
They've never been the guy thathas to decide do I get my guys'

(40:47):
raises and get more food fortheir families, or do I spend
those millions of dollars onbody cameras?
It's easy to sit here and go,oh, you've got to have them,
when you're not the one that hasto come up with the money, of
how you pay for them and whatthe downsides to them are Sure
it saves it.
The downsides to them are Sureit saves it.

(41:10):
I bet you, eric, I bet you myagency didn't get more than 15,
10 to 20, 20 tops cases orcomplaints a year.
That would have required us tolook at a body camera.
It just didn't.
That wasn't a part of it.
So I think that once peopleknow, then you get all these
records, requests, so like I getwhy people are for it, but at
the same time you know I canmake all the arguments against

(41:31):
it as well, and so it's not theend all be all.
It doesn't sell everything andit is very expensive and is very
laborious.
I had 8,000 public recordsrequests a year without body
cameras.
If I'd have had body cameras Iwould have had 15,000, you know,
requests just so for reportersand people that they could go

(41:52):
and see what we're doing, andbody cameras and you have to
redact all that.
It is a lot of money and whatI'm saying is, until you are
where you need to be staffingwise, I think that you should be
very cognizant of what kind ofmoney you're spending on
equipment.
It should go towards puttingbodies on the streets first and
foremost.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (42:13):
I see that I have a question Generally what are body
cameras meant for?
To catch cops being bad cops orto catch cops being good cops?
Because if it's to catch copsbeing bad cops, instead of
investing the money into that,if you invest money into the
background investigation or youinvest money into their training
, the continued training, mentalhealth, support along the lines

(42:34):
, you have great officers thatyou can have that trust in, so
you don't have to have thesebody cameras.
So if you're going to spend themoney anyways, why not spend it
there?
Then you have great officers.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
Yeah, and I see somebody saying well, we pay
your cars, we pay all this,that's right, your tax dollars
do, but you don't give us enoughtax dollars to be able to pay
for all that stuff.
That's the thing Like, if youguys want to spend more tax
dollars and pay more to get allthe things, we were 40 deputies
from where we needed to bebefore we could justify making

(43:08):
that expense.
And this is what a lot of youfolks making comments don't
understand, because you probablyhaven't been in a leadership
role or managing a large budgetor how you manage all those
things.
And so, look, I can sit andnitpick and armchair quarterback
things I don't really knowabout.
It's really easy because I'mpassionate about it.
But having all the knowledge andbeing able to be put into

(43:31):
another position, that's whereyou we pay for your lawsuits.
Well, we never got sued, wenever paid out any lawsuits.
What are some of these othergarbage?
Uh, all you guys on here, allyou're in the in the tank for
body.
That's an ACLU thing in thebeginning and now even the ACLU
is like hey, we don't love thebody cameras as much.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
You know why?
Because it was showing people,not cops, being bad it was
showing people being bad and howbad they are to us, and then,
all of a sudden, the ACLU waslike ah, wait a second.
Maybe we don't want bodycameras, that's right.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
Yeah, that on body cameras, that's right.
Yeah, yeah, that, that is true.
I do know that that came down,the aclu started saying that it
was depicting stuff in a, uh,racist way, um, and they were
pointing out that there was.
They didn't want body camsbeing shown.
So I do get that.
But I am a hundred percent probody cam.
That is me.
Um.
One, because it it just helps ineverything.
It helps in investigations,because this is when I would do

(44:29):
a report, for instance, I'd beout there, I would do the report
, as I recall, and then I wouldbe able to review my body cam
and go back and be like oh,there's a detail I missed,
there's this that I missed.
I couldn't remember where thisperson was at, things of that
nature.
So, one, it helped me in myinvestigation.
Two, it definitely helped meagainst false allegations, which
is fucking priceless in itself,at least for my peace of mind

(44:55):
as the guy that's out in thestreet.
And then, three, if you do havesome bad shit in your
department, like I would want toknow and I want there to be as
many checks and balances as Icould get, and now I get all
your points, sheriff and I it'sjust one of those things that
I've had one for so long that Idon't I literally don't even

(45:15):
think about it.
When I get a call, my camera'salready on.
I'm not even at the call yet Ihave had it.
I'm so good with my body cam.
I'll put it this way I've hadfights break out in front of me
and I didn't even know I turnedmy camera on.

Speaker 3 (45:29):
Muscle memory.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
It's just muscle memory.
Yeah, I start running towardsthe problem.
My camera's already rolling.
I didn't realize I did it, butI've had one that long.
That's where my muscle memory'sat.
And now just picture a rookiewho's?
That's all he knows.
That's all they know is havinga body cam and when they should
have it on and all of that stuff.
So, but I do know what you'retalking about when you're
talking about the Freedom ofInformation Act and all of the

(45:53):
money and expense that goes intogetting that information.
Imagine an agency like how many?
Okay, I'll ask you this howmany calls Frank and Mark did
you guys get through dispatchfor police?
A year Roughly?

Speaker 2 (46:10):
I couldn't even tell you.
Mark would have to say that.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
How many?

Speaker 3 (46:13):
calls.
Do we get what?

Speaker 1 (46:14):
How many calls for service do you get a year?

Speaker 3 (46:18):
300 a day, probably Three something a day on the
average.
So what Million calls a year?
Maybe two, two, 1.2 million.
Yeah, so, and look just andI'll leave it at this because I
know we were talking aboutsomething else we got out some

(46:38):
of these guys on here, we gotsidetracked because of the
camera thing yeah the bottomline is I'm not against it.
What I'm saying is there areagencies that just it's not.
It's not fiscal response,fiscally responsible right to
engage in something that costswhen you still are down, god, or
when your guys need raises, orthere's other things that need

(47:01):
to be addressed first.
Um, I guarantee you, within thenext few years, my agency that
where I was the sheriff willprobably have body cameras.
We did a good job of makingsure that we got our staffing
levels up to where they could bebetter, for somebody could do
that.
So it's not that I'm against it, I'm not against it at all.

(47:22):
I'm just saying there arethings.
There's pros and cons toeverything.
I can tell you the pros, I cantell you the cons, but in the
end it's about when you're theleader.
I'm sorry, my job is make surethat my guys get paid, that I'm
hiring enough people to show upto the calls for service, that I
give them good equipment, likegood cars, good computers, top
of the line stuff like Peregrineand all these other things.

(47:44):
Cars, good computers, top ofthe line stuff like Peregrine
and all these other things.
That's what my focus is, and ifI can afford to go and buy that
other piece of equipment, thenI will.
It's just it's not that easy,it's not as easy as you think.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Yeah, no, I, I and you're right.
I don't know.
I've never been in thatposition of leadership where
budget is a thing that I evenhave to consider.
So I don't know.
I do know that it is.
Again, my department is roughlyaround 2,000 cops, so out of
2,000 cops, all that body camfootage, you know, running all

(48:20):
day long, that's space and timeand the amount of money that
something like that costs isenormous.
And then when you get into theFreedom of Information Act stuff
now you're talking, you got tohave time for somebody to scrub
that footage, because if there'sa juvenile on there, if there's
a person's personal informationon there, there's all these

(48:42):
things that have to be redacted.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
Anything on a computer screen.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
Yeah, and AI has not gotten to the point yet where
it's good enough to do all thatediting on its own.
You need a person.
You've got to have somebodythat does that, not a person.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
We would have to have at least three redactors.
Right, we've priced it out.
I know what it is.
It's a.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
it's a big lift, right it is, it's huge so.
So there is cost.
So I would be speaking out ofmy ass if I'm like, well, no,
sheriff, fuck you.
Like that doesn't make adifference.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (49:19):
I, I really don't know the average cop who gets in
the car and gets on hiscomputer and turns on his body
camera never thinks twice aboutwhat it is for the chief or the
sheriff to put all those piecesin place.
They don't think about it.
It's not their job to thinkabout it.
I'm not saying they should,it's just not something they

(49:40):
think about.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
Right, right, exactly , but I guarantee you.

Speaker 3 (49:45):
they'll bitch to you and tell you they need to make
more money.
And I hear that Like I agreewith them.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
They gotta make more money, absolutely.
I want to give a shout out toHarrison Brock and also
Stephanie Thompson.
These guys are supporting theshow, throwing out some money,
buying some memberships forpeople.
Thank you very much, guys.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
I don't even have a membership.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
Well, I mean, you got to either buy one or support
your friends.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
I'll have to get on there.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
Yeah right, not even a follower.
Yeah, son of a bitch, I'msubscribed.
I'm subscribed.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
You're subscribed.
Okay, I mean that it's possible.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
I'm subscribed.
I'm subscribed, you'resubscribed.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
Okay, I mean that's possible.
I'm not subscribed, but I don'tget on subscribed to anything.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
I was going to say.
You don't seem like the typethat actually uses social media.
You just get on it All right.
Before I do this body cam stuff, I like to always go over
something that we post on ourpages.
That gets a littlecontroversial and brings up some

(50:48):
good discussion.
So I'm going to share thescreen here.
If you guys are not familiarwith our Instagram page, please
get familiar.
I'm going to turn the chatoverlay off for a second y'all,
so we can make this screen alittle bigger.
Now I want you guys to watchthis video.
This is one I did a reaction to.
Okay, we're going to unmute andI apologize.

(51:13):
I cannot make this any bigger,but we're going to play from
here.
So a little background on this.
You got a guy that got arrestedfor unknown reasons.
We're not sure why, but he ishandcuffed with his hands behind
his back and he is strapped toa gurney.
Um, if you can see my mouse,you can kind of see it here.

Speaker 4 (51:32):
So I'm gonna hit play don't do that shit again, all
right, so we're going to pause.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
So let me give you a little back Are you wearing a
vest.
Yeah, that's my freaking.
That's my reels vest.
Baby, that's my old carrier.

Speaker 3 (52:00):
It looked like gray.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
It's so sun faded because I wore it forever, but
it's got my two cops one donutbadge on there, oh nice.
Nice, you mean one like this yes, sir, just like that Got it.
But so, basically, whathappened was the guy in the
gurney spit and then you see thereaction of the cop.

(52:23):
So we had the discussion and wewere talking about, you know,
when that's okay, when it's notokay, if it's okay.
So I'll present to you guys,given that information I have,
and I'll lead the discussion onwhat my position was, one that
is not justified because it wasway too.
After the fact, I, I I left thecomment in saying that there's

(52:49):
almost never a reason to punchsomebody's handcuff, but there
are justifications no 100 if Isee somebody about to hawk tua
in my face, I'm gonna grab theirface or hit them or sling them
to the ground or something toprevent them from biohazard into
my eyes, my nose and my mouth.

(53:09):
Um, if I can catch it in theact.
But this was well after thefact.
He'd spit the guys like ah shit, and then he goes over and then
he delivers some post justice.
Um, that's a no go, that's a nogo to me, so I'll leave it to
you guys.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Frank, I'll go with you first.
Buddy, uh, I don't think I havea different opinion than you.
Um, I I think that there isthat, that immediate response of
when someone is one foot awayfrom you, uh, you're trying to
put them in the back of a car,you're, you know you're doing
something, and it's a naturalreaction, very different than
this.
I mean, this guy had to takemultiple steps.
He obviously wasn't.

(53:48):
I mean, he had to push pastanother officer to get there.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
Um, I just, I don't see the reaction of the cop that
was on the other side of thegurney.
I can't pause it, um, or Ican't rewind it, but uh, the guy
with the mustache.
You just see him look up likewhat the fuck are you doing that
?
Like that was the look.
So, sheriff, what do you?
Got on that?

Speaker 3 (54:09):
well, I think you look at the other officer's
reaction to what happened andthat tells you whether it was
wrong or right.
You know the other officersimmediately were the looks on
their faces, like you said, andand the other guy pulling them
back.
That tells you the hey, he went, he, he went too far or he did
something wrong.

(54:30):
Look, that's a tiny little clip.
It is really hard, but but thatwas pretty clear.
Yeah, um, you don't know whatit is.
What's going on.
There's a way to deal with aspitting subject who's already
handcuffed.
You can just put a bag over hisface or cover it something.
If you spit on somebody in inarizona, it's ag assault, right,

(54:53):
so that is ag assault.
I don't know if it is in texas.
Um, it's ag assault.
You can charge the guy with it.
Um, but he's not gonna, he'snot gonna be able to do much
beyond that.
You cover him up, put a spitmask on him, but I I think the
biggest indicator is how theother guys responded to him and
I think that tells you that whathe did was was not right.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Right now.
Um, in that.
So cause, cause you were aleader, sir.
Um, how do you handle thisdisciplinary wise?
I'll tell you what I said.
How do you handle thisdisciplinary wise?
I'll tell you what I said.
This guy can't be a cop If it'sexactly what we've seen Now,
like you said, there could bemore to it that we didn't see,
we don't know.
I highly doubt it, just likeyou said, based on the reactions

(55:35):
of everybody.
But let's just say it is whatwe saw.
You just punched the shit outof a handcuffed dude in a gurney
because of POP pissed offpolice.
How do you handle that as asheriff?

Speaker 3 (55:48):
Well, we have a disciplinary matrix and that
probably would easily meet thedisciplinary matrix of
termination.
You know he could get charged.
I see people saying, look, theydidn't charge him.
If that guy said, hey, I wantto charge him for assault, you
know, we would have to do acriminal investigation and the
guy would likely get charged andjust the simple charging of him

(56:10):
would cost him his job, letalone his behavior.
But I think, based on what Isaw there, the guy's losing his
job and he's probably going toget charged as well.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Yeah, Okay, I like that.
And charging by the the way isjust our recommendation.
That you know.
It's like, oh, that guy shouldbe charged, true, but then it
goes to a county attorney andthey have prosecutorial
discretion.
Um, they have to put a casebefore a jury.
There's, there's a lot moresteps that I don't think that
the general public doesn'tunderstand.

(56:42):
Besides, like what, just presscharges?
Like that's great, that's ourrecommendation to law
enforcement of hey, countyattorney or district attorney,
whatever you have in yourjurisdiction, hey, these are the
charges that I believe areapplicable, based on what I have
.
Then it goes to them and theydo whatever they want.
People don't understand thecounty attorney has the ultimate

(57:03):
discretion in charging,dismissing, changing, upgrading,
downgrading, whatever they wantto do.
And so, just because you know,as law enforcement, we might say
, hey, this is what we think.
Cases get pled and dropped andchange every single day
throughout this country andevery single jurisdiction
without exception.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
And that's a victim crime.
So here's what's going tohappen Either the victim's going
to say I want to press chargesand most likely, even if he
doesn't, let's say he's drunk,he's high, whatever.
You're going to have detectivesgo and say, hey look, you were
assaulted, Do you want to presscharges?
The guy may say, no, I don'twant to press charges.

(57:47):
I was acting terrible, I wasspitting on the dudes, I
deserved it.
He may say that he still mayget charged.
We still may submit charges tothe county attorney's office,
Like Frank said.
Then the county attorneydetermines whether they're going
to follow through on thosecharges.
But on a case like that, we'reprobably going to submit charges
, with or without the victimwanting to be the victim.

(58:09):
It certainly would make a lot.
It makes the case a lotstronger if the victim says,
yeah, I want to be charged or Iwant to charge him.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
Yeah, and and uh, ozark moon.
She said, uh, or he, he or she,I can't remember, ozark, you're
a female, I believe, if I, ifI'm remembering correctly.
Um, that is where, uh, thingsalways seem to fail once the DA
or PA drops it and no charges.
This is one of my.
Okay, there's been a huge pushin policing for transparency and
accountability.
That push has been happeningthe last 10 years of law

(58:42):
enforcement.
Great, that's why we got bodycameras.
That's why we've got policedepartments now throwing out
their own press conferenceswithin 24 hours of an incident
happening.
Sheriff Lamb, you were alwaysreally good at communication
with your people.
What we don't see is we don'tsee any transparency and

(59:02):
accountability with prisonsystems.
We don't see any transparencyand accountability with our
court system.
No one pushes for that.
And who takes the brunt of that?
We do Because, like you said,we'll throw charges up there and
usually we throw the heaviestones we can find.
We let the DA deal with theirdiscretion and what they want to

(59:23):
do, but when they drop andlower the charges or don't do
the charges, who gets the facevalue of that?
We do, yeah, where the fuck isthe accountability for them?

Speaker 3 (59:35):
We have that.
We had an older guy and ayounger guy guy neighbors end up
getting into a little scuffle.
The older guy pulls a gun outand just starts shooting at him
and this dude's running up youknow, running across the street
and bullets are hitting them.
Do you remember this one, frank?

Speaker 2 (59:50):
I do.

Speaker 3 (59:51):
I don't know what you're talking about the other
houses and he hits the guy likeseven times.
Oh, she's like seven.
Younger guy goes to thehospital.
We arrest the older guy, chargehim with I saw the deadly
weapon attempted murder.
We charge him with all of it.
The next morning the guy'salready home before the and the

(01:00:14):
family is just they're mad andthey just start going off on us.
For a couple days and I you knowthey were angry and I tried to
communicate with the family,like hey, you're not helping the
case they're going to if you'resaying that we didn't do a good
job.
Finally, I had to do a videoand just say, hey, my guys did a
great job, we arrested the guy,we put him in jail.

(01:00:34):
I can't help it if the judgegives him a 50 000 bond.
That's not on.
How's that on us?
And as soon as we did that, assoon as we said, look, our guys
did our job, we put the guy injail, we charged him, and then
all of a sudden the judge letshim out.
I'm frustrated too and so, um,it doesn't always work out the

(01:00:57):
way you want it to work out.
Lawyers don't always do theright thing.
Judges we're seeing on anational level are really not
doing a great job, so yeah, it'sa problem.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Yeah, deadleg, have you in your experience?
Is that what you were seeing aswell?
As far as the court system goes?
Were you seeing a lot ofdiscretion that goes unnoticed
or unchallenged?

Speaker 5 (01:01:23):
It's like all the time because no one ever follows
through with things.
I look at like law enforcementis in the government.
It's kind of like we're thefront desk of customer service.
They bring every issue to thattable and then want it to be
resolved at that table.
When you bring your issues tocustomer service, chances are

(01:01:44):
you're going to deal with amanager.
You're going to deal with allkinds of different departments,
like the people that you dealwith every day today.
They have nothing to do withthose things, but they always
get held responsible for it.
We had an issue.
I worked on a federalinstallation and I worked in
Hawaii and there was an areathat was a beach, of course, and

(01:02:05):
there was trying to pull peopleout of the beach because people
were complaining about theissue.
And we went back and forth,back and forth, back and forth.
I'm like, look guys.
I said if we start chargingthese people, it's going to go.
They're going to go and they'regoing to end up going to the DA
and the DA is going to dropthese charges because there's
nothing here.
We can't charge them for beingin an area that they're allowed
to be at.
So on the back end of things,these complaints you have to

(01:02:28):
explain to people complainingabout like this is what happens.
You make the complaint, this isthe system, this is the flow,
because a lot of the problem, alot of the issues that you're
going to have in LA or a lot ofthe issues you're going to have
anywhere, it's just people aremad because they don't know.
As soon as they find out, like,oh that's why this is going on,
that's why this thing is veryugly, but okay, now that I get

(01:02:50):
explained it, now I know, now Iunderstand.
So a lot of it is just aneducation.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Yeah, I want to kind of touch on what Andy Fletcher
is saying here.
He said you arrest us allbefore.
Before all that, why not yourfellow cops too?
Well, one like, let's use this,this encounter, for instance.
Let's say charges are going tobe brought on that cop.
They're not going anywhere.
We know who they are.
We're going to be able to taketheir firearm from them and be
able to take their badge fromthem or do whatever.

(01:03:18):
It just depends on what thecircumstances is.
But let's say this particularone, that's going to be reported
and done just like anythingelse.
The reason why a citizen wouldbe arrested is because we don't
know who you are.
We have an offense on view.
We have to make the arrest ratethen, and there, versus with an
officer, it's a littledifferent.

(01:03:39):
We don't know the whole storynecessarily and we don't know if
it's within the authority oftheir position.
He may have seen something thatthose other cops didn't see,
and that can be the difference.
It's not an excuse, but thatcan be the difference.
But you guys got anything toadd on?
That is why we don't arrest thecop immediately, versus how we

(01:04:02):
would a citizen.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
I mean arrest is such a generic term because you're
you're still, charges are goingto be filed.
So I can long form someone.
They're still under arrest.
I mean I I write people ticketsevery day.
They're still under arrest,called site and release or a
citation in lieu of detention.
You're still like, ifapplicable, and at the end of an
investigation, which is whatwe're there to do is conduct

(01:04:24):
full and thorough investigations.
If charges are filed, you havebeen arrested, you've been
arrested, charges have beenfiled.
You just like I mean it's, it'sit.
It needs to go through theproper steps and we don't walk
up to every call and arresteveryone without doing an
investigation.
Well, there's going to be aninvestigation here and there's
going to be an interview andeventually it's going to end up

(01:04:46):
in the same place, which is inthe court of law.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
And I get you know what's his name Shit, andy
Fletcher.
He's saying bullshit.
You think you're above the law?
No, it has nothing to do withthat.
One of the problems that I havewith what you're trying to say,
andy, and it's you wantsomething immediate because it
happens to other people, andthat's a childish like mentality
.
You want something to happeninstantly because it happened to

(01:05:14):
the other guy.

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
Well, that's what you did to him, but you didn't do
it to this guy.
Grow up.
I'm going to tell you right nowif you saw, take the police out
of it.
If you saw two guys fightinglike that.
First of all, arizona has amutual combat state, so somebody
has to want to be a victim.
That's first of all.
Second of all, even if they'reseparated and no longer is a

(01:05:40):
threat, the majority of time, 80plus percent of the time we do
not take people to jail.
We issue them a citation forassault.
If there was serious bodilyinjury or it's an ag assault or
somebody really gets hurt, thenyeah, we're probably going to
take that person to jail, butthe majority of them end in a
citation for assault.

(01:06:01):
And then you are at, you haveto show up to a court and defend
yourself for it.
So it's a fallacy.
And that's the thing is.
We got a lot of people chimingin on here that have never been
done the job.
You know like it's really easyto be.
I could sit and tell you aboutyour job, whatever these guys's
jobs are like.
I could go sit there and belike you didn't do that right.
You didn't do that right.

(01:06:22):
You know it's like anybody cando that.
I come do the job.
I will you know.
If you're up for it, let's doit and show us how it's done.

Speaker 5 (01:06:31):
If you, could pass the background I have andy, I
have I I have referred chargesto someone who I was working
with while they were working andI can tell you what happens.
I took everything and Iretained it as physical evidence
.
I took it to the outside agency, which is my case, was NCIS
Handed everything over to them,gave my first statement and that

(01:06:52):
was it.
Fair enough, that was it.
There was nothing more that Icould do at the end of the day.
Fair enough, that was it there.
There was nothing more that Icould do at the end of the day,
the next morning, they pulledhis gun and badge and told him
that he couldn't do anything,while they retained why they did
this investigation.
And there was much, much, muchmore to the story.
But as soon as like, like,they're explaining, like, the

(01:07:13):
reason why a lot of like forlike, tickets for like for like
a dui, a dui.
You're going to arrest someonebecause you need to bring them
in.
There's evidence and thingslike that.
I suspended driver's license.
You can process that on theside of the scene.
I know everything I need to do.
Right there.
You can have someone else witha driver's license come out,
take the car.
I give you your ticket, you're.
I don't need to take you downthe jail.

(01:07:33):
I have identified you.
I don't need to go through allthat process.
Same thing with the policeofficers.
You're going right through thething.
But even at the end of the day,to save a long story from the
middle of it, nothing happened.
I caught this guy on dutycommit forgery, not once, but
twice, on two of my cases andnothing happened.
You not think that I was salty.

(01:07:55):
I was a police officer in aplace with other police officers
and a police officer committedforgery.
I caught him red-handed andnothing happened.
So, as a police officer, youdon't think that I get
frustrated or I would getfrustrated.
I would understand as acivilian.
If you get mad at the policebecause you try to do something,
you're not looking for thereaction that you're getting.

(01:08:15):
You're going to get frustrated.
A lot of it's this education isthat's what we're trying to do,
is it's in between.
It's not as cut and dry as it'sgoing to be.
I get the police officersdriving drunk.
I will pull up how many videosI can pull up.
Right now, police officers getin the accident at work in their
patrol car and get arrested intheir uniform.
It happens all the time.
You just don't see it.

(01:08:35):
All the time, you just don'tsee it all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
Yeah, why don't you see it?
Because the media doesn't coverit.
Why doesn't the media cover it?
Because you're doing whatyou're supposed to do.
They only want the shit.
That is juicy, which is part ofthe problem, and I've told
people, just at my departmentalone, every single year there's
been at least one and there'sbeen multiple on multiple years.
But in the last 14 years thatI've been at the department, I'm

(01:08:58):
at somebody who's been arrestedand charged every year that
I've been there.
You never see it on the news.
Why?
Because we're holding ourpeople accountable like we're
supposed to be doing.
You, just when you make thatargument, andy, you know I'm not
trying to call you outspecifically, but when you make
that argument, really what Ihear is well, I want them to do
it right then and there.
And instead of looking at thebig picture, the big picture is

(01:09:22):
at the end of the day guess what?
They get charged and they go tocourt for it.
Whether it happens the day thatit occurred or it happens five
days later, who gives a flyingfuck?
I don't.
I just want to see justiceserved, and when they're on duty
, I will give you that argument.
Yeah, it typically doesn'thappen while they're on duty,
unless it's something like whatDeadleg was referring to it's a

(01:09:44):
DWI, it's something like that.
We have the body cam video, wehave the investigation.
We're going to run through thegambit.
And then the other thing thatyou guys don't even consider and
, sheriff, maybe you could saysomething to this is jail space.
You know how frustrated I'vegotten, where I make a
legitimate arrest and I'm toldthis guy's got to kick rocks.
We just have to put it on paperbecause the jail doesn't have

(01:10:06):
space.
They're only taking the mostviolent of felons.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
Nah, man, we didn't have that problem you didn't
have arrested, you went to jail.
You know if, if you gotarrested, handcuffs on um and
you didn't get a citation andthey booked you in.
We never kicked anybody awaybecause we didn't have enough
space.
That's not, you know.
You went and you saw your judgeand you went through the whole
process.

(01:10:30):
Nah, we've had Brother I got totake off, though I got to jump
off, I didn't realize the time.

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
No worries, brother, it gets fun right.
Thank you guys everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:10:39):
Thanks for everybody chiming in.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
No worries, brother, I appreciate you.
Thank you very much, sir.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
Take it easy.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
Quit calling him boss .
He's not your boss.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
I know, of course I have it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
Right, but yeah, what big picture.
I just explained the bigpicture.
The big picture is at the endof the day, they're still
getting charged and they'restill going through the process,
just like they would if theygot arrested the day of, or five
days later, or two days lateror whatever.
So I love y'all, don't get mewrong, we're not always going to
agree.
I'm just glad you guys arecoming to the table to have the

(01:11:13):
discussions, but this is the onewhere you know if it's
something that is so egregiousthat we we can like driving
drunk on duty, yeah, ok, I getit.
But not every single thing isas clear cut as it appears, and
that's where the investigationscome in.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
And we long form people every single day.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
Can you explain what you mean by long form?

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
The long form is simply just not booking someone
in the jail.
But maybe you need more partsof the investigation.
You need toxicology back,whatever it may need to do
interviews, need to find victimsor witnesses or whatever.
So instead of booking thatperson in the jail on that night
, you file what's called acharging review.
You send that information, allthe charges and paperwork report

(01:11:57):
to the county attorney,district attorney, whoever it
may be, and then they make thedecision if they're going to
charge that person, what they'regoing to charge them with, and
then they're issued a court date.
If they don't appear for thecourt date, a warrant's issued
and it goes like that.
It's just a.
It's a different way thatcriminal charges flow through
the system, different than likewhat would be if you were booked
.
It would be different.

(01:12:17):
If you're issued a citation inlieu of detention, it's
different.
There's just kind of threedifferent ways.
All roads lead to the mountain.
It's just a different avenue,one that's typically longer.
I mean you spending time indetectives.
You know you would, I'm sureyou long form people.
We do it in DUI cases andfelony DUI cases in any

(01:12:38):
vehicular crimes investigation.
Very typically we're filinglong form charges on that once
we end up doing downloads andsearch warrants and all sorts of
stuff.
So it is a broaderinvestigations.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
Yeah, I'm going to go to the comments section here.
I the knight, who's a regularwith us.
He said two cops, one donut.
I think one of the biggestthings for me personally is I
hold cops to a higher standard.
I think cops should holdthemselves to a higher standard.
I think you personally do, eric, and I agree and I'm with you
on that.
And there's no way for me tosit here and argue that police

(01:13:11):
do hold themselves to a higherstandard when we know that I
have shared a ton of thingswhere cops are not holding
themselves to a higher standard.
So is there work to be done?
Absolutely Do.
I think the majority of copshold themselves to a higher
standard?
I do, but there are some thatdon't and I think it's a
systemic and cultural issue withwhere their departments are,

(01:13:32):
and I've pointed those ones out.
But he continues to.
But I don't think that mostfolks see how cops handle each
other in public as holding themto that high standard, fair and
just like Andy was trying to getto.
They didn't arrest himimmediately and they would have
arrested a civilian immediately.
I agree, I do think you'reright.
I think they would have.

(01:13:52):
I think they would havearrested a civilian immediately.
But the reason I think that isis because we don't know the
civilian.
We got to get all thatinformation.
We have the assault on viewversus if it is a cop, there
again there has to be aninvestigation, there's a process
and he may have seen something.
Again we won't know.
So until we figure that out, hecould be arrested an hour later

(01:14:16):
.
He just wasn't arrested rightthen and there, and and I get it
, I understand what you'resaying and he's saying it's not
the same.
Not the same.

Speaker 5 (01:14:25):
I'm didn't say we don't know what the whole rest
of that case was, but let's justsay that the guy in handcuffs,
uh, is handcuffed there becausehe just drowned a baby and after
he drowned a baby he sat therewith a baby's dead body and
talked shit to dispatch theentire time and then when police
got there, he talked shit andantagonized the cops about just

(01:14:46):
killing a baby.
Do you not think, as a humanbeing, that there's an emotional
response that a human will have?
That's the problem that we haveto understand.
The person behind the badge isstill human.
They're going to have anemotional reaction.
Do I give them agree with it?
No.
Do they think they should becharged with that?
Yes, but do you throw them downright there on the scene?

(01:15:10):
No, that's where you pull themaside.
Hey, steve, you're going toanswer for this one tomorrow.
Go home.

Speaker 1 (01:15:18):
Self-proclaimed hero Steve Sorry for that other and
Andy's saying that's not justice.
Justice is at the end, justiceis not instant ever.

Speaker 5 (01:15:31):
And then what is justice?
Justice becomes subjective.
Justice for you is one thing.
Justice for the person on theother side of the case is
completely different.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
Yep, yep and Nevia says investigation seriously,
when did those happen withcivilians?
Copsplain it Easy.
Warrants that's how you explainwhen an investigation is done
on the civilian side.
Warrants you get arrested onwarrants.
There was an investigation donebecause you weren't arrested on
the spot and then they find outthat they have probable cause

(01:16:04):
for an arrest, so they write awarrant.
So the investigation wasalready complete.
And that's what ends uphappening.
There's your cop splination.
Um, let's see, go into thecomments.
Uh, you put completely soberpeople in jail for dui because
they wouldn't roll their windowdown.

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
I think not rolling their window down is a failure
to identify.
I think there's a there's,there are failure to obey lawful
order, there's all sorts ofother stuff.
It's not DUI related.
It's the fact that thatperson's probably being a jerk
and not obeying specificportions of motor vehicle laws
required.
So there's, it's not a DUIthing.

(01:16:43):
I mean it could, that could.
The cause of that could beimpairment, which obviously
affects judgment.
But, like Arizona, you have toprovide ID.
It's 28, 15, 95 B driver has toprovide evidence of identity on
your traffic stop.
You fail to do that.
It's a criminal offense, it's amisdemeanor.
That means I can, yes, pull youout of your car and arrest you,
Not because you're DUI, butbecause you failed to provide

(01:17:06):
evidence of identity.
We've beat this to death allover the place a whole bunch of
times.
It's just no matter what peoplethat have graduated from
YouTube Law College believe.
At least in the state ofArizona, which is the only place
that I can speak to, you haveto present evidence of identity

(01:17:27):
if you're stopped in a civiltraffic violation.
No, matter what your thoughtsare or your beliefs are.
If you're driving a vehicle,you're on the roadway, you're
stopped for a civil trafficoffense.
You have to provide evidence ofidentity.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
Yeah, stop for a civil traffic offense, you have
to provide evidence of identity.
Yeah, now, it is differentstate to state, though, cause
what I learned is in Arizonay'all have to provide it
physically so you can physicallyexamine and it's set um.

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
there are specific requirements that an
identification has to have.
So, like you can't give someonea credit card and be like,
here's my identification.
It has my name on it.
That doesn't fly because itdoesn't have a height, a weight,
an address, date of birth.
There has my name on it.
That doesn't fly because itdoesn't have a height, a weight,
an address, date of birth.

Speaker 1 (01:18:04):
There's certain things that are all delineated
within Arizona state law aboutwhat's accepted as a form of
identification, right yeah.
And in Texas, like for us andI've told my officers this
before they're like they're justputting their ID on the window.
I'm like, as long as you canget the information you need,
that's all they need to do.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
I'll even take that.
Someone said what's thecitation In Arizona Revised
Statute or ARS?
It's 28, which is Title 28,1595, subsection B, as in Bravo.

Speaker 1 (01:18:28):
Jesus Christ, I don't know all that shit.
I haven't written a ticket inso long.
From my understanding, theticket book isn't even the same
as what it was when I got issued.
Everything's electronic now.
We don't even, we don't evenwrite.
Oh no, we still have a physical.
We have the electronic option.
I have that in my well.
When I had a patrol car, I hadthat in my patrol car, but I I

(01:18:50):
couldn't have told you even howto use it.
I have no clue.
Hey, I'm good.

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
someone just wrote in there that, uh, you roll your
window down two inches and passme the paperwork.
I am a thousand percent goodwith that.
I would, all day long I wouldtake that.
I'm.
I am great with it.
It lets me write my ticket.
I slide it right back throughthat little sling.
You have your ticket.
You can go to court, deal withit.
I don't have to talk to you.
Awesome, I have no problem withthat.

Speaker 1 (01:19:15):
It depends, okay.
Where I do have a problem withit is if I cannot hear you, if
I'm trying to get information orsomething that I have a lawful
reason to get.
Now, again, I don't, I don'tright, you know yeah, you're not
.
You're not doing traffic stopyeah, I like to do real police
work so behind your desk at thereal-time crime center like let
me look at this guy, he missedthe slam enhance yeah I like to.

(01:19:38):
Like I said, I like to do realpolice work.
So if I am pulling somebodyover, it's usually for some sort
of violent offense.
Um, but uh that if I need to beable to hear you in certain
circumstances, so if you justcrack your window and I'm next
to a busy freeway and I can'thear shit, well then that
becomes a problem.
But yes, for the most part I'mwith you on that too.

(01:19:58):
Same thing, but I know some ofmy people that follow us on here
they don't like that excuse,but I have shit hearing as it is
.

Speaker 2 (01:20:07):
So if I really if I can't go out on the side of the
road.
Yes, and that I tell people allthe time I'm like.
Yell at me so I can hear you,I'm standing.

Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
But yes, 85% of cops have ego brain worms, I don't
know.
Oh okay, there are a lot ofcops with egos.

Speaker 2 (01:20:32):
I absolutely can't disagree with that.
As a practicing and a studentof stoicism and a practicing
stoic, I try to not let my egoinvolved and really very, very
heavily rely on just logic andfacts.
Um, I do it in my, in mypersonal life also, so it's it's
not just something I turn onand off, it is how I live my

(01:20:53):
life.
Um, I have very, very fewemotional responses, Um, and
they are absolutely absent.
Um, people who are in my innercircle and people who I love and
trust and respect, Um, but likesomeone, some random person on
the road, says something like Idon't really care what they say
because they, they don't meananything to me.

(01:21:14):
Now, Sheriff lamb, who who's inmy inner circle?
My, my best friend, my, um, youknow, my dad, my, my sister,
someone who's really in my innercircle, my girlfriend?
Um, someone says something andI value their opinion.
Now, that's very different,Right?
But just like some randomperson on the road says
something to me like yeah.
Yeah, I don't know you, so alittle different.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
And to Nevia's point.
Here she said you can take yourpolicy and put it where the sun
don't shine.
I don't answer questions.
Take my paperwork and do yourdang job Fair.

Speaker 2 (01:21:46):
I'm with that.
You know what my job is goingto be Writing you tickets and we
can go to court and you cantalk to the judge.
And if you don't want to talkto the judge, then you deal with
them Like that's not, that'snone of that's my problem, Like
here's your ticket.
I observed like vaya con Dios,I know that Be with God.

Speaker 1 (01:22:09):
I know a little Spanish, Steve.
He said something other thanself-proclaimed hero, so I'm
going to give him a little shothere.
He said if you pull someoneover on a busy highway and can't
hear, that's your problem.
Okay, that's a fair argument.

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
I'm good with that.
I'm totally good with it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:22):
Yeah, you know what I I'm totally good with it.
Yeah, you know what?
I never really thought of itthat way, that's fair.

Speaker 2 (01:22:27):
Yeah, no, I can't, that's absolutely, that is a me
problem.
And then I decide how I'm goingto react to you saying, hey,
I'm not going to talk louder.
I'm like, okay, well, I don'tneed that information, then it's
not a big deal.

Speaker 1 (01:22:40):
You know what, steve, you just made me self-reflect.
I never really thought of itthat way.
It is my problem, okay?
So yeah, I'm good with that atthe next exit so I can hear you.
So that that would be, uh, thecompromise to that.
I didn't think of it as a meproblem.
So, yeah, you're actually righton that, steve, I'll take it.
You see what happens when youdon't just troll, buddy you
don't take it you make it.

(01:23:00):
I like it don't reflect.
I like that steve steve's onthe board.
Steve is finally on the board.
I like it.
Um, beards and meat.
I like a beard and meat.
That's a fucking awesome namebeard and meat.
Hey guys, found the stream afew weeks ago, commented that I
was going to go through theprocess of my local pd.
Passed the polygraph last week,waiting to get pulled from the
eligibility list.

(01:23:21):
Now legit congratulations allright, bro, good luck, don't
fuck it up don't mess it up uh,that's very cool.
Um, somebody asked earlier if wewere going to get to the videos
.
Yes, we're going to get to thevideos.
Sorry, we this is what happens.
We talk a lot, listen.
Okay, guys, I want to give youmy priority list.

(01:23:42):
My priority list is one get tothe guest that at least took the
time to come out and talk.
So we did that.
And then my second priority isgetting to your guys' questions
and your comments.
The videos are the third thingI want to get to.
So if we're having discussionand you guys are answering
questions or not giving theanswers you want to hear, or

(01:24:04):
whatever, I'm going to put thatto the forefront.
So that's what we did tonight.
I like it.
We definitely handled y'all'squestions.

Speaker 5 (01:24:13):
Anybody that's got a very, very strong opinion about
law enforcement, I would inviteyou to go to your local law
enforcement and just do aride-along.

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
Do a ride-along.

Speaker 5 (01:24:21):
Just do a ride-along.
If you think that you have suchan idea of what it is, just do
a ride along one night.
Within two to three hours youare going to completely look at
this like completely different.
I've never, not once, seensomeone go through the shoot,
don't shoot scenarios and comeout completely changed.
Or someone that had an opinionon law enforcement and ride

(01:24:41):
along didn't change it by theend of it, completely changed it
.
And I'm not saying that changeit Like we're all on the same
side.
We're all bootlickers.
Things like cause the end ofthe day, we all just want to get
to the end of the day, that'sit.
So when we're stopping you onthe side of the road nine times
out of the 10, we're juststopping you for, like what
Frank will say.
I'm just stopping this guy forspeeding.
Yeah, he might have a DUI oryeah, he might have a suspended

(01:25:04):
license.
Yeah, he might have a warrant.
But the reason why I'minitially talking to him is just
for speeding.
It doesn't have to be anythingmore than that.
It doesn't have to be.
Oh, we're going to play thedon't answer questions game.
It can just be.
Hey, you were speeding.
There's a lot of people thatare going to be out here a lot
of pedestrians.
Just hey, slow down.

Speaker 1 (01:25:30):
Yeah, hey, slow down, yeah, super easy.

Speaker 2 (01:25:31):
That's all it has to be I don't have an answer for
this.

Speaker 1 (01:25:33):
Does anybody else?
Kingslayer said what case lawexhibit means Exhibit means
grant physical assets.

Speaker 2 (01:25:36):
I would imagine that you're in the US stuff and that
is probably specified in eachindividual state law.

Speaker 1 (01:25:44):
Yeah, I was going to say, like I said, in Texas they
don't have to provide physical,but I remember somebody sharing,
actually, one of your videos,frank, and I think you had
demanded physical access totheir, their license, and you, I
think you even stated what itwas, and that's how I knew.
In Arizona the state law isthat, um, physical inspection of

(01:26:06):
a valid license or something tothat effect.
It is.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
And you know what I'd have to?
I'd have to look up what theactual subsection where that is
in there, because it's it's likeI need to get my hands on a
book and look through it.
But what you can't just say is,hey, this is my name.
That does not work.
That does not work.
Um, so you, you can't just say,hey, my name is bob smith,

(01:26:31):
that's great, but that is not.
That doesn't identify yourself,because there could be 200 bob
smiths and five of them can havewarrants, um, so that's, that
doesn't.
That doesn't meet therequirement.

Speaker 1 (01:26:39):
So all right for all you scroll through.

Speaker 2 (01:26:41):
Flock all day.

Speaker 1 (01:26:43):
Well, freaking nevia already said said how long do
you think it'll be before Ericgets two inches on his waistline
?
Listen, I'm still in themilitary.
I have to maintain physicalstandards.
The beauty of where I work nowis I don't even have to wear a
uniform.
I can show up in gym shorts.
I can go work out and then godo my job.
That is the benefit that I haveof my new spot.

(01:27:06):
Yes, I will still keep workingout, y'all.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
Okay, and Navea, you, you are absolutely correct.
Some States say present, not um, not relinquish, Uh, some say
exhibit.
It is like I said this it's,that is not a federal level.
You're talking about statestuff, so it depends on what
state you're at.
Everything's, that's why I?
Always preface it with hey,this is arizona.
This is the stuff I know.
New mexico is on one side,california is on the other, utah

(01:27:33):
is on the other.

Speaker 1 (01:27:34):
Could be different in all three of those places also
yeah so I'm just gonna, I'mgonna step off, I'll be right
back, don't go, no worries, Ithink kingslayer may have got us
, though he said uh, at leastwhat he looked up says after
stopping as required bysubsection A of this section,
the operator or motor vehiclewho fails or refuses to exhibit
the operator's license.
I don't know, but, like I said,I, and then some of these names

(01:28:00):
Sebulus Maximus such a coolname Said People v Williams 2013
.
Maybe that's the case thatwe're talking about Illinois
case law.
So, all right, let me.
Let's get to a video.
I don't again, we're going togive credit to all of our body
cam videos that we're going towatch tonight, to Police

(01:28:22):
Activity YouTube channel.
Let me share their screen here,Share screen Boom, we will
biggie size this one.
Boom, there we go.
So I'm actually going to turnthe chat overlay off real quick
so we can make the screen alittle bigger.
And remember, we have notwatched this.

(01:28:43):
If we have watched it, we willlet you guys know.
And here we go.

Speaker 5 (01:28:51):
Hopefully we can hear it Deadleg let me know if you
can hear this Yep, we're goodOkay 580.

Speaker 4 (01:29:01):
580.

Speaker 5 (01:29:05):
Yeah, on your 54 subject, I got him down down
here.
How many javany middle, ifyou'll start me a central male
white, white hat I like whathe's doing already.

Speaker 1 (01:29:18):
This is I.
I would, uh, do a similarapproach, except I would stop
driving.
I would stop completely, justpull over the road, turn my
lights on.
And the reason that I would doit that way is because, if I do
need backup, because I don'tknow what a 54 is for, whatever
this department is, I can tellyou right now it doesn't match
what my department is.

(01:29:39):
But whatever it is, he'swanting to wait for somebody
else to get with him before heapproaches him, which I think is
a smart play.
That's the safe play.
That's what I would do.

Speaker 5 (01:29:51):
So person with a weapon person.

Speaker 1 (01:29:55):
Google's good tonight .
Yeah, it's definitely not whatit is for us.

Speaker 5 (01:29:58):
Well, I might go to where he's at, cause he was at a
cross, at a T intersection.
I might go a little bit furtherto where he's at, but then I'd
stop right there, especially ifhe's potentially has a weapon
and I'm getting into a crimescene.
This is my vehicle.
Is going to stop other vehiclesfrom coming down this way too.

Speaker 1 (01:30:12):
True, so let's keep going here.

Speaker 5 (01:30:18):
So now I'm looking at hands.
That's all I really care about.

Speaker 1 (01:30:25):
Sounds like he's seen it, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:30:33):
I would have stopped Just because all those cars are
going to pass.
Those are now in your backdrop.

Speaker 1 (01:30:38):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:30:39):
That's another car in your backdrop.

Speaker 1 (01:30:44):
Maybe even loud, hail them.
This just happened this morning.
Did it really?
Oh shit, it did, goddamn Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:30:57):
Fast with this one.

Speaker 1 (01:30:58):
Accountability and transparency.
They got this shit out therequick For me.
I'm not even opposed to loudhailing over the PA and being
like hey bro, can you do me afavor?
Just get out of the road andjust make it seem chill.
Maybe try to keep that, youknow, chill, playful, uh tone.
So maybe we get, um, somecompliance, some deescalation,

(01:31:21):
before it gets crazy.
If I know the you know policeactivities page, everything's
always crazy, so he's definitelykeeping that left hand.
Oh yeah, that's a gun.

Speaker 5 (01:31:37):
Oh, there it is.
Yeah, that's.
Definitely a gun.
I'm getting my rifle ready.

Speaker 2 (01:31:42):
Okay, yeah, this chain I am too.
I was just thinking that I'mlike I'm all about a rifle right
now.

Speaker 1 (01:31:46):
Yep.
And the reason behind the riflefor anybody listening that
doesn't use firearms or anythingis it's more accurate at longer
distance for sure.
So in something like this,every shot matters.
You can't and your backdrop'sterrible that's yeah, and you
have a terrible backdrop, so youwant to make sure you get
accurate rounds on target withthis.

Speaker 5 (01:32:10):
At this point.
I'm stopping, though, becauseI'm not letting cars keep him
alive.

Speaker 2 (01:32:15):
Yeah, I think it's a hard.
You got to put up a hardbarrier or not, Because he could
turn and fire a round throughany one of those cars and we own
it.

Speaker 1 (01:32:24):
Yeah, this is not normal behavior.
So we can already say like onedo we have an offense.
So for anybody wondering, if wehave an offense, you may be a
really pro to a person.
You have an offense.
You've got a guy walking in acity area with a gun,
unholstered, so that in itselfis usually I don't know what
city or state you live in, butusually that's a problem um, and

(01:32:46):
then he's in a public roadway,which is also frank.
You're, you're a traffic guy,that's definitely.
It's definitely travelingoffense.

Speaker 2 (01:32:54):
Uh yeah, you can't, you can't be walking in the road
and and yeah, yeah, just, youknow all all of this is and I'm
I mean we've watched videos ofme with guns.
I love people with guns.
I think everyone should shouldcarry a gun all the time.
However, this is not good forthe public.

Speaker 1 (01:33:12):
Yep, yep Eye of the Knight.
Said rifle is much easier tokeep stable and I absolutely
agree, absolutely agree withthat also.
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:33:25):
Sorry, I'm not getting that close to this dude
that's a big ass handgun.

Speaker 1 (01:33:41):
All right, I'm automatically getting suicide by
cop vibes.
Uh, right away.
Um, I believe this was to drawattention, but dead leg.
What's your vibe on this so far?

Speaker 5 (01:33:55):
yeah now I would have definitely made sure the car's
position at a blade, because ifI'm getting to the point where
I'm going to take rounds, I wantto make sure that I'm stopping
my I don't know.
I just keep going back to theevery car that passes.
That's potentially anotherperson that he's going to shoot
at, or another potential personin the backdrop so okay.

Speaker 1 (01:34:13):
So I'll ask the question could we run him over
right now?

Speaker 2 (01:34:17):
I don't think we're there.
Nope, I don't think so eitherno.

Speaker 1 (01:34:20):
So it's a hard position to be in and, knowing
the difference between cover andconcealment, uh, your car is is
great concealment but it'sterrible for cover, meaning
stopping bullets.
The only thing in that carthat's going to stop bullets is
hopefully the engine block, uh,maybe the axles.

Speaker 2 (01:34:40):
Brake pads.

Speaker 1 (01:34:41):
And.

Speaker 2 (01:34:41):
Those will stop one.
Really Now if that guy, if thatguy raised that gun up um like
towards one of those cars, Ithink you run him over
immediately.

Speaker 5 (01:34:49):
Oh, for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:34:50):
Because I think you are absolutely defensive of
third party.
He fires one round into any oneof those cars and instantly
kills someone.
Yes, and the longer that he'sthere, the more liability as a
department we take, becausethere is this steadily
increasing liability of himbeing out there.
Obviously you look back, yousee a car.

(01:35:11):
I'm sure this cop's got hislights on, um, you know it's.
So now you know the cops arethere.
They're giving you a lawfulorder.
There's all of these compound.
Now you're being able to builda case that you know, yeah,
you're really.
You're getting real close tobeing able to to shoot this guy,
to save every single vehiclethat's driving by, the driver,
occupants, kids, other citizenson the sidewalk, I mean there's

(01:35:36):
yeah, yeah, and unfortunatelyit's.

Speaker 1 (01:35:38):
It's a growing um tactic for people to use police
for suicide.
Okay he's disobeying yourorders, which okay.
Now you've got something to goon.
Hey, I'm going to get on theradio right now.
Hey, I've commanded this guy acouple times.
He's looked at me and thenignored me.

Speaker 5 (01:36:01):
Wayne has gone from kind of swinging the weapon in
his left hand to now he's got itin front of him.

Speaker 1 (01:36:06):
Yeah, he's kind of sealing it in a way yeah, Okay
All right he's on the sidewalk,we're good.

Speaker 5 (01:36:18):
Those vibes were the.
I'm on a path quick and turn.

Speaker 2 (01:36:22):
I got that too.

Speaker 1 (01:36:27):
Yeah, his lights are going, I can see him.
Yeah, you see him flashing offthat too.
Yeah, his lights are going, Ican see him.

Speaker 2 (01:36:29):
Yeah, I see him flashing off that sign Yep, yep,
right now.

Speaker 1 (01:36:37):
Yeah, I'm going to be every single time.
Here it comes, yep, so I'mgoing to pause it.
I'm going to let you know thatright now, if that gun even
remotely starts to raise, I'mlaying lead downrange.

Speaker 2 (01:36:51):
That's a good backdrop.
There too, you have brickbuilding.
You've got that traffic controlbox right there.

Speaker 1 (01:36:57):
Yep, I would be a little concerned about the
windows and door over here.
This looks to be about 25yards-ish if you consider the
length of a vehicle.
Yeah, roughly, that's my guess.

Speaker 4 (01:37:14):
Down, put the gun down.

Speaker 1 (01:37:19):
If I'm the guy in the Bronco, my windows are going to
be down.
I would have been listening,but I'm very hypervigilant, I
think right now, if there'ssomeone else walking up that
sidewalk, windows are going tobe down.

Speaker 2 (01:37:26):
I would have been listening, but I'm very hyper
vigilant.
I mean, I think I think rightnow, if there's someone else
walking up that sidewalk, Ithink you're.
You're starting to really beable to articulate the defense
of a third party because of allof the, the totality of him
obviously recognizing you're alaw enforcement officer, you're
a failure to obey lawfulcommands, um, the fact that
you're walking down the streetin a city with a gun, that's bad

(01:37:51):
, like all of this is bad.

Speaker 1 (01:37:54):
Steve Ladner said why does he need to put the firearm
down if he hasn't done anythingwrong?

Speaker 2 (01:37:57):
Because he's done something wrong by displaying it
.

Speaker 1 (01:38:00):
Yeah, you can't.
You cannot walk around with afirearm in that manner.
There's laws on that, and youalso.
He was a firearm in that manner, there's laws on that, and you
also.
He was in the roadway walking.
So you already got an offense,so you've got a reason to make
contact.
And then, steve, I want to kindof give you the whole the
reasonable imprudence of aperson.
That's kind of the standardwhen it comes to making an

(01:38:26):
argument in court.
A reasonable and prudent personisn't going to continue walking
away from a police officer witha gun in hand and this fully
marked police cruiser withlights on.
All of these factors are areason why this is unlawful.
A reasonable, prudent person isnot going to do this.
So it goes into mindset and iswhat his intent is and all of

(01:38:48):
that.
These are all part of that.
Um, so will cray saidbrandishing.
That that could be just dependson what the uh brandishing
every state has a different lawyeah, they have slightly
different elements of that.
Like in texas, if you're goingto um transport a uh pistol,
it's got to be in your holster.
It's got to be a holsteredweapon.

(01:39:08):
Now it can be completelyvisible, but you cannot have
your weapon out in hand in acity area unless there's
defenses to prosecution for it.
So if you're defending yourself, if I'm a cop and I come around
the corner and your gun's outand you're pointing it at
something and you already justshot somebody and you're about

(01:39:29):
to shoot somebody or a coyote,whatever it is, that is a
defense to be in charge.
But what we see right now hehas no defense.
He's not.
He's not obeying any orders orany of that.

Speaker 2 (01:39:45):
I can't believe there's no other cops there.

Speaker 1 (01:39:49):
I don't know what city it is.

Speaker 2 (01:39:50):
I wonder what city it is.
It's in Nashville, nashville,oh.
Nashville yeah, yeah, what's itgoing to shift change at 9
o'clock man.

Speaker 1 (01:40:00):
Yeah, david Edmondson .
Spoiler alert he ain't makingit to court, just saying I have
not seen this video, so Code oneinjuries.

Speaker 5 (01:40:14):
It kills me just the amount of cars that keep driving
around in the cop car with thelights on.

Speaker 2 (01:40:17):
It's unbelievable.
I was thinking the same thing.
David's going to piss somepeople off.

Speaker 1 (01:40:20):
They're going to get mad.
It's going to piss some peopleoff.
They're going to get mad.
It's going to ruin it.
I mean with all due respect.

Speaker 5 (01:40:36):
He said spoiler alert .
We don't have the duck quackslike Donut does.

Speaker 4 (01:40:42):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:40:43):
Oh, fyi, the reason why we didn't do a live, we got
a community strike.
So for those that werewondering why we hadn't done a
live on time, somebodycomplained made a report about
one of the videos we posted.

Speaker 3 (01:41:00):
Jesus, yeah, there are cars going around.

Speaker 2 (01:41:01):
I'm sorry, sir you have a lot of background.

Speaker 1 (01:41:04):
But yeah, we got a community strike strike and so
you can't post anything forseven days and I had blurred out
everything.
I blurred out the violence.
It was the hostage rescue.
I don't know if you've seenthat video, frank, but a guy or
I think actually it was a ladywhatever pulls a knife on a dude
gets him as like a hostage.
You hear the?

Speaker 2 (01:41:24):
guy.
Oh, is that where the cop justwalks up and just goes?
Yeah, drop the knife, drop theknife, love it love that so um
that's exactly how every hostagesituation should be yeah, it
was a great hostage rescue.

Speaker 1 (01:41:34):
But I blurred everything out and I even did,
uh, a duck, sound a squeaky duck, not not um, donuts, um.
For the gunfire.
I was like, all right, thatshould be good, because good.
Because you can't see anything,can't see any of the violence,
can't see the blood, can't seeanything.
But somebody reported it.
I appealed it on YouTube and Istill got a community strike.
They didn't take my appeal.

(01:41:57):
So we couldn't do anything forseven days.

Speaker 2 (01:42:00):
Can you imagine being so fragile that seeing all of
that blurred out still made yougo?
God, I got to go to YouTube andthis can't be allowed out there
.

Speaker 1 (01:42:09):
I just can't believe YouTube didn't didn't uphold my
side of it.
I was like you can't seeanything.

Speaker 5 (01:42:16):
I'll bet you 10 bucks that I can find the video on
YouTube tonight of the samething of the same thing.

Speaker 1 (01:42:22):
It's on there, I know it is still alive.
Yep, I'm like Of the same thing.
It's on there, I know it is,it's still live.
Yep, I'm like what the fuck?
It's just the way it goes.
So now I got to be good for 90days.

Speaker 5 (01:42:31):
We lost Frank Nope.
I'm right here, he's there.

Speaker 1 (01:42:34):
He probably had a sneeze or something.

Speaker 5 (01:42:37):
I thought YouTube was yelling at us.
Already you see a cop car slowrolling behind a pedestrian.
They're not making sure theyget home safe.

Speaker 1 (01:42:55):
There's a reason they're following them, Steve
that's not true, because they'refucking with this guy right now
.
He's the only one walkingaround like that.

Speaker 5 (01:43:04):
Oh, there's your pedestrian.

Speaker 2 (01:43:07):
Look at this guy what has absolutely no clue what's
going on.
Oh now you get it the fuck.
Well, now he's got a catalyst.
Yeah, Look at this guy.
Now you got the emergency.
Probably a good idea huh.
Get my Starbucks and get out ofhere.

(01:43:34):
Now I'm shooting.

Speaker 5 (01:43:35):
What, what is going on?
How long do you have to wait agun being pointed at you before
you shoot?

Speaker 2 (01:43:41):
yeah, I don't even understand what I just saw I, I
don't get that.
I never want to see that again.

Speaker 1 (01:43:48):
Ozark.
What the hell do you thinkthey're going to see?
Flowers and hugs, kingslayer.
There are cops that stillarrest people for the middle
finger.
Fragility knows all people.

Speaker 2 (01:43:59):
Yeah, that's true.
I can't disagree with you, man.

Speaker 1 (01:44:03):
I'll argue with you on that one.
Jesus, lord knows, I post everysingle one of those videos.
I see I'm like get the fuck outof here.
So yeah, great point.
Who said that one Kingslayer?
Of course Kingslayer isdropping some good wisdom, no
rifle.

Speaker 5 (01:44:22):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:44:23):
No level of physical fitness, no button to hold his
duty belt.

Speaker 4 (01:44:26):
I was going to say no ask?

Speaker 1 (01:44:29):
no ask at all.
He's on that prescription nowwhat are you doing now?

Speaker 2 (01:44:34):
you're out of your car.
Now we're just do, do, do, andthis guy's going to die god damn
, that was patient, I would havealready shot him.
I was pretty close.

Speaker 5 (01:44:48):
How close did he have to be though.

Speaker 2 (01:44:51):
In order for that guy to hit him.

Speaker 4 (01:44:53):
He raised his gun to throw it at me.
Stop, stop, don't back.

Speaker 1 (01:44:57):
Go.
Like I said, this wasdefinitely suicide by cop.

Speaker 4 (01:45:04):
Drop the gun.
Drop the gun.
Drop the gun.
No red dot.
Drop the gun.

Speaker 3 (01:45:07):
Drop the gun Drop the gun Drop the gun.

Speaker 1 (01:45:11):
Metro Police drop the gun.
Metro Police drop the gun.
Drop the gun.
Drop the gun, drop the gun.
Metro Police, drop the gun.
And here's the other thingSomebody's pointing a gun at you
and you get from behind cover.

Speaker 2 (01:45:31):
Yeah, so guys, I, I for people that the only thing I
could think of is that guy isrunning away and his backdrop is
a whole bunch of windows rightand he may not have the cop, I'm
gonna play devil's advocate andjust say that's a.
That's a pretty far shot for ahandgun.

(01:45:51):
Uh, on a moving target, yeah,and your backdrop is terrible,
and someone holding two caramelmacchiatos just ran right that
way yeah, whatever you will yeah, yeah, whatever.
Yeah, maybe tote milk, I don'tknow, maybe he's lactose
intolerant.
Yeah, um, but uh, you know, I'mgonna give that cop that he had

(01:46:12):
just so much situationalawareness to know that those
rounds weren't going to hittarget and we are responsible
for every round, very differentthan than other places um, that
he didn't shoot until he was100% sure that he could hit his
target.

Speaker 1 (01:46:28):
Yeah, devil's advocate, I'm with you on that.
And then the other part is youknow, maybe he knows his skill
set, maybe he was like I'm justnot confident in my ability to
shoot him from here During adynamic and, you know, stressful
situation.
He may be really amped up andjust doesn't trust his own
abilities, which respect that's,that's fine so not having a

(01:46:50):
rifle without having a red dot.

Speaker 2 (01:46:52):
He is, he's already right.

Speaker 1 (01:46:57):
So, uh, oh, the point that I was uh about to get to
too is you see, this guy.
One of the things that happenswith cops and you see it a lot
in training is we get magnetizedto the problem.
You'll see us suck into placesthat we know we need to keep
distance, and it's this magneteffect and you can kind of see

(01:47:17):
it here at the beginning.
Now, I don't blame him, he'sgot to follow this guy.
Now does he go run back andjump in his car or does he go on
foot?
Well, that's for him to decide.
I can't say that for him.
I I think he did the right movehere.
Are we using things for cover?
Metro police, drop the gun.

(01:47:38):
I, I would have sucked up tothis.
Uh, yeah, here he uses it.
He uses it.
Okay, good, metro police, dropthe gun, drop the gun, don't
worry about you just from heresecure the gun, secure the

(01:48:05):
person, person, go intolife-saving measures, that's the
answer.
I would handle that.
So, yeah, crazy I would have.
I personally would have beenokay with him firing earlier,
but, like we said, probably asuicide by cop and lo and behold
, that's exactly what we hadthere.

Speaker 2 (01:48:27):
I'd like to know what that guy yelled as he ran at
him.

Speaker 1 (01:48:30):
I don't know.
Freedom, yeah, freedom.
All right, let's go to the nextvideo here.
Share screen.

Speaker 5 (01:48:41):
Yeah, it was Nashville Metro.

Speaker 2 (01:48:43):
Yeah, it's set it up on the upper left-hand corner.
Sacramento police officer, allright.

Speaker 1 (01:48:46):
Okay, biggie size this guy?
Yeah, all right.
Somebody asked Frank, doesArizona still file charges on
descendants?
What the fuck does that mean?

Speaker 2 (01:49:00):
I don't know, brian, I am sorry, I don't.
Decedents, decedents, decedents.
So in other words, we kill himand then we file charges on him?
I don't, I don't believe so.

Speaker 1 (01:49:15):
Oh, I said, I am not a homicide.

Speaker 2 (01:49:16):
Yeah, I was like you threw me with that.
I was like I read that, I waslike that's not the word that
you said, um, so yeah and andnot uh, not being homicide in in
the homicide world, um, but Idon't believe so, I do not
believe that we, uh, we filecharges on them but, I.
I could be wrong.
I I'm not.
There's some things that I'mreally good on and that is not

(01:49:37):
in my purview all right, weirdbed check yeah, harrison,
talking shit on glocks.

Speaker 1 (01:49:44):
Shut your mouth, sir.

Speaker 2 (01:49:45):
I carry a Glock and I got a Glock around here
somewhere.

Speaker 1 (01:49:48):
I've got like three or four of them that I carry A
couple of them All.
Right, let's, because I can'tafford a staccato.

Speaker 2 (01:49:54):
Let's put it, I have one of those two.
Fuck you.

Speaker 1 (01:49:57):
Show off.

Speaker 2 (01:49:58):
Now you know 32.

Speaker 1 (01:50:05):
Hey bud take your hand out of your pocket.
Please Hand out of your pocketnow.
Take your hand out of yourpocket.

Speaker 2 (01:50:11):
Good, I like seeing a gun out.

Speaker 1 (01:50:13):
Okay, curious what we got called here for.
From what I'm reading, officershoots a man brandishing a fake
gun.
So if I were a betting man, thecall details were somebody was
out brandishing a gun.

Speaker 2 (01:50:28):
So I'm with this cop get your gun out.

Speaker 1 (01:50:30):
Yeah, absolutely can't take any risk.
When it's a person with aweapon 32, he's not compliant.
Take your hand out of yourpocket right now that's a long
shot yeah, over a street, yeah,that's I'm gonna have one at gun
.

Speaker 4 (01:50:44):
Maybe 45 yards.

Speaker 2 (01:50:55):
Again You've got uniformed law enforcement
officer vehicle, red and bluelights, lawful commands.

Speaker 1 (01:51:04):
And pointing a gun at you.

Speaker 2 (01:51:05):
Yeah, a reasonable a gun at you, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:51:08):
A reasonable and prudent person.

Speaker 2 (01:51:12):
Marked police car.

Speaker 1 (01:51:14):
I like that.
He's trying to go back and usethe car for cover.
That's a good way to use cover,because you got the whole
engine block, you got a coupleaxles, so assuming he gets
behind it, I don't want to dothat, please.
All right, we got anothersuicide by cop.
He's already young.
Just kill me Now in this.

(01:51:34):
I'm not getting on the radio,nope, no, I'm not touching my
everything.

Speaker 2 (01:51:39):
You've said everything you need to say.
Yeah, I have one in gunpoint.
He's not compliant.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:51:43):
Trust me, everyone within 20 miles is coming to you
right now.
Right, even people that knowthey're not going to get there
on time but want to be a part ofthe call are going to be there.
So uh I'm trying.
I'm trying yeah, so on this, uh, you know again, stay off.
This is one of the biggestmistakes we point out on here.
Not to monday morningquarterback, but it's.

(01:52:04):
It's an officer safety.
We got a lot of officers thatwatch what we do.
Please stay off the radio.

Speaker 2 (01:52:11):
Handle business, handle everyone's coming to help
you yes please do not, do notstop.
Oh, we got multiple off that'snot good okay come back I can't
see anything now you havesomeone with lethal lethal, so
you could go less lethal if youwanted to yep, I, both hands

(01:52:32):
looked empty to me.

Speaker 1 (01:52:33):
yep, um, in this case , now it's know your skill level
, I'm gonna holster up and spearhim.
I've already made up my mindlike, if I'm at this spot and I
can see both hands, I I'm takingyour ass to the ground, but I
know what I'm doing.
I've had a lot of grapplingtraining so I'm comfortable with
my own skill set on this.
But everybody's got theirgo-tos.

(01:52:56):
So, like Frank was saying, ataser would be fine.

Speaker 2 (01:53:00):
Yeah, less lethal shotgun 40.
There's all sorts of.
I'm not a giant taser, taserfan, but I mean it's out there
as an option.

Speaker 4 (01:53:07):
Do not, he's got.
That's a gun.

Speaker 1 (01:53:10):
Do not.
So he sees a gun, do not reachfor that.
I can see.
Yeah you can see it there yeah,poking out of his back pocket.
So now what you got to worryabout is angles getting his
budget.
Look at all the people that arebehind him right now yeah, or
crossfire with your partnerbecause he's split in the middle
.
So that's another problem.
But now they've identified aweapon.

(01:53:34):
I can't.
It looks like a gun, I can'ttell from here.

Speaker 2 (01:53:37):
He says it's a gun.
But he said, yeah, he sees agun Yep.

Speaker 4 (01:53:42):
That gun.
Come back over this way Leaveback door.
Do not reach for that gun.
Come back over this way leavebackdrop, do not reach for that
gun.

Speaker 1 (01:53:47):
He's saying he says it.
That's great communication.
Get here back behind me so wehave the same backdrop.
That was fucking beautiful.
So he's and that's a greatbackdrop right there yeah, he's
consciously thinking about thebackdrop, so that's good.
Wherewithal what he's got goingon, do not put your hands in
the air tells me he's not tooamped up.
He's thinking throughUnnecessary radio communication

(01:54:14):
right there.
No need to put that out there.
There's no need Deal with whatyou have in front of you.
Great trigger discipline by thefemale officer.

Speaker 5 (01:54:26):
If you want to narrate things to yourself or
say it out loud because you wantto like, if you're going to
listen to your body camera back,when I would do DUI stuff, I'd
recite stuff out loud to myselfso I can come back and I can
review everything that I do,maybe that.
But you don't have to get onthe radio.
Everything you need to say hasalready been said.
You already got back up there.
Everybody knows that they'recoming.

(01:54:46):
Because you don't have to geton the radio.
Everything you need to say hasalready been said.
You already got back up there.
Yep, everybody knows thatthey're coming.
Because you haven't saidanything's code for you.
You don't have suspect acostayet.
So I like we just great andthen not so great, right, yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:54:57):
yeah, and, and I like the fact that, um, he is
thinking about that stuff.
But, like you said, say it forthe body.
I tell my rook rookies be theMorgan Freeman of your body
camera, narrate your life.
There's no need to jump on theradio.

Speaker 2 (01:55:14):
I have a question right now Is that guy's car
locked?
Ooh, yeah, because if you'regoing to let this guy walk you
around your car which.
I adamantly disagree with.
I'm telling you right now I,just like you said, there's no
way that I'm giving up groundthere.

Speaker 1 (01:55:33):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:55:33):
We're going to talk and either it's going to be hard
empty hands and we're going togo, or but I'm not going to let
this guy chase me around my car.
He's done more than a 360around this car right now my car
.

Speaker 1 (01:55:48):
He's done more than a 360 around this car right now.
Yeah, and again it goes intoknowing my skill level and what
I'm confident in doing in thisparticular case.
You know I can see the gun so Ican let you get as close to me
as you want.
I'm going to holster up andtake your ass to the ground even
with that gun right there.
Maybe it just depends, we'llsee.

Speaker 5 (01:56:16):
One person talk.

Speaker 2 (01:56:17):
Here we go, Deescalation.

Speaker 5 (01:56:21):
Cool man Just talk to him Turn and face away, stay
off the radio.

Speaker 1 (01:56:27):
We, we can help you Stay operating.

Speaker 4 (01:56:29):
We would like to help you.

Speaker 2 (01:56:33):
She's out of the fight.
Do not Get your hand off her.

Speaker 1 (01:56:39):
Oh shit.

Speaker 2 (01:56:41):

Speaker 1 (01:56:44):
We can help you.

Speaker 2 (01:56:45):
He's got his hand on the gun.

Speaker 1 (01:56:47):
That's a gun.
In help you.
Take your hand off the gun,take your hand off the gun.

Speaker 2 (01:56:49):
What kind of shooting platforms?

Speaker 5 (01:56:50):
do you have right now ?
Come on here.
Behind that, no one's in thehard-free zone.

Speaker 4 (01:56:56):
Let us help you Come on, let us help you Keep going,
keep going, all the way to thetree.

Speaker 1 (01:57:01):
All the way to the tree.
Do not, do not, do not reachfor the gun, don't reach for it.

Speaker 4 (01:57:07):
Get your hand off the gun.

Speaker 2 (01:57:09):
Get your hand off the gun.

Speaker 4 (01:57:11):
No, I cannot see, I cannot see, I cannot see.
He's got, he's got the gun.
Get back, get back.

Speaker 2 (01:57:17):
What are you doing?
Get your hands off him.

Speaker 1 (01:57:19):
Oh Jesus, Leave her the fuck alone.
Look, his gun's stove piped.
He ain't out.
Let's go.
I got it.
I got it.
There's a motor there.
That is insane.

Speaker 2 (01:57:35):
There we go.
We just got a motor there.
Take care of business.

Speaker 1 (01:57:39):
So I put out, I did a podcast with Reasons we Serve
podcast with reasons we servepodcast, and I had a, a video
that kind of went viral, where Iwas talking about how we rely
too heavily sometimes onde-escalation to the point where
it is unsafe yep 100, and thisis exactly what the fuck I was

(01:57:59):
talking about.
I've never seen this video, buthere's a prime example of
exactly what I was talking about.
No, police are always tooheavy-handed they're.
They're more about escalationthan de-escalation.
I told you guys.
No, there are instances indepartments, not all departments
.
There are some departments thatare too heavy-handed, but there
are some that are notheavy-handed enough.

(01:58:21):
And this is the example.
These guys put themselves insuch a position because they're
so heavily focused onde-escalation that they let a
person pull a weapon and pointit at them before they finally
pulled the damn trigger, whenthey could have tased him a lot

(01:58:41):
earlier.
They could have handledbusiness a lot sooner if they
had just seen the signs andsymptoms and tried to handle it
that way.
But because we pussyfootedaround and then did this 360
around the vehicle, look what weended up going to Deadly force.
It ends up being worse in theend run.
So let's keep going.

Speaker 4 (01:59:02):
Two every second, two , every second Sergeant, put
your hands up, put your hands upNow.

Speaker 1 (01:59:10):
We got multiple people, put your hands up.
This is another frustratingpart for me the motor's cops
talking.
These two are talking.

Speaker 2 (01:59:18):
The best thing for that motor cop to have done
would be grab a rifle off of hismotorcycle and never say a word
.

Speaker 1 (01:59:25):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:59:27):
Just stand there, be in a stable shooting platform,
be able to address the threat ifit presents itself and just be
there.
You got a great l.
You love l's.

Speaker 1 (01:59:35):
L's is what we have right now, while they're trying
to figure out where they'regoing to run, but they're all
converging.
He's dictating the space.

Speaker 4 (01:59:42):
Look how close they are, sir.

Speaker 1 (01:59:50):
Get your hand off the gun, just get your hand off it.

Speaker 4 (01:59:52):
No, no, no, I cannot see, I cannot see, I cannot see.

Speaker 2 (01:59:57):
He's got the gun, he loses it.
No, there it is.
Shots fired Shots fired Down,you go.

Speaker 1 (02:00:15):
Insane, insane to me.
Stop sharing.
So, um, yeah, when I talk aboutde-escalation, actually I could
probably find that video, letme, uh, I like that one, we will
.
We will watch that quick clip,um, because I don't remember
exactly what I said on it, but Iknow I'm close.
Where is it at there?
It is Okay, nope, that ain't iteither, over here talking shit

(02:00:41):
One second.
I'm looking for this video.

Speaker 5 (02:00:42):
Guys, once I find it, Well, I'll help fill the time.
Every bit of that scene is likea big pie and everybody there
has got a little bit of thatshit sandwich that you're going
to eat.
So the first person there, justbe one voice as you start to
get extra people there.
Like Frank was saying thatmotor guy, just don't say
nothing, just provide stable forsure, lethal backup.

(02:01:04):
Let the one voice that shouldbe one voice in it do the one
voice thing.
At what point?
They did have his hands on hishead.
He was complying with him atone point when he was in front
of the car.
So like every bit of that scenehas got a little bit of
something that everybody thereis going to have to do.
So not everybody needs to beyelling at suspect.

(02:01:25):
Not everybody needs to be to doso not everybody needs to be
yelling at suspect.
Not everybody needs to be goingto everybody.
Everybody does their every kindof kind of takes little bits of
the role and kind of letseverybody else do their thing.

Speaker 1 (02:01:33):
Yeah.
So here's the here's the clipthat I was talking about, so
heavily pushing de-escalation, Ithink it's.
We've pushed it to an unsafepoint where it's time to handle
business and our officers arenot seeing the signs and they're
trying to de-escalate and theyare causing a hesitation in
themselves.

(02:01:53):
When you cause hesitation, youincrease injury and the
potential for injury.
So all of this hesitation thatI'm seeing is we end up using a
higher use of force than if wewould have handled business when
we could have up front.
So that is one of the biggestthings I'm seeing with the
social skills stuff is, yes,they're trying to use their

(02:02:14):
words, but really, how does a 21, 25-year-old try to relate to a
40-year problem between acouple?
And they have no way to relate?
And here they are trying tode-escalate.
When the guy's got his fistballed up, he's starting to
reach towards a pocket orsomething like that.
Yeah, and me, old school, I'dalready tackle them.

(02:02:35):
They'd already been on theground.
I just slapped them across theface, done something, and you,
sir, sir, sir, you keep gettingthis sir sandwich stuff, sir, no
, and I'm handle it Like nowwe've gone to a taser or pepper
spray or baton when you couldhave just taken them down to the
ground and put a little jointmanipulation, put them in cuffs
and dust them off.
Good to go so little shout outto reasons we serve.

(02:02:58):
But I wasn't talking about thatexact scenario that we just
watched.
But God damn, tell me, itdidn't fit.
Sure is applicable, jesus.
So, yeah, that that's part ofmy problem.
Um, with the de-escalationstuff.
I think that was a primeexample of too much
de-escalation training.
Uh, but let's, uh, let's go tothe next video here is it dalton

(02:03:22):
roadhouse, was he say?

Speaker 5 (02:03:24):
is every this, you got to be nice until it's time
to not be nice, right?

Speaker 1 (02:03:28):
no, yeah, how will we know?
You won't?
I will let you know.
I quote that old movie allright, here we go.
Both of them were good actuallyyeah, I liked it.
I did like the second one, uh,with jake jelen hall, I think oh
uh.

Speaker 2 (02:03:46):
So this occurred roughly 16 blocks from where I'm
sitting right now.
No shit, it's right down,literally right down the road
okay, um, all right, let's not,not the doctor self are you
right?
You don't know what directionit's's.
In Phoenix, in the middle ofPhoenix.

Speaker 1 (02:04:10):
It's literally right in the middle of Phoenix.

Speaker 2 (02:04:11):
Okay, it is Phoenix Petey.

Speaker 1 (02:04:13):
What is your problem?

Speaker 4 (02:04:14):
You're following me, You're the one that's going out
yelling at me doing whatever.

Speaker 1 (02:04:17):
I wasn't yelling at you.
I wasn't yelling at you.
There's a speed limit down,Cactus.
Do you know what the speedlimit?

Speaker 4 (02:04:21):
is.

Speaker 2 (02:04:22):
I wasn't going past it when I what the speed limit
is you?

Speaker 4 (02:04:24):
know what the speed limit is 35, 40, it is 40.
You were traveling 30.
You need to be at 40.
That lady right there was justgoing so slow.

Speaker 1 (02:04:31):
Hold on.
All right, I got a problem withthat.
It's a speed limit, it's not aspeed.
That's the speed you have to do.

Speaker 2 (02:04:38):
Impeding the flow of traffic.
It depends yeah, it dependswhat all the rest of the
vehicles are doing and if you'recreating a hazard by your speed
being so slow, also traveling10 miles an hour or more under
the speed limits, and it's aclue of impairment okay, fair
enough.

Speaker 1 (02:04:53):
Now this cop immediately came up and was
bitching at this guy for yellingat him.
So it makes me wonder like isan ego?
Stop.
Was this a pissed off police?
Stop.
That's the vibes I'm getting,yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:05:10):
You had to go around her to get to me.
Dude, you ain't going to fuckshit.
Yeah, and you go around her andthen you stop again.
What is your problem with it?

Speaker 2 (02:05:16):
No, I did not stop again.
I did not stop again.
What do you mean?
I did not stop, what do youmean?
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (02:05:22):
you fucking are.
Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you.
Give me your driver's license.
Do you have any weapons?

Speaker 2 (02:05:28):
What did you pull me over for?
For driving under the speedlimit?

Speaker 1 (02:05:30):
No, you fucking did yes.
I did no, you fucking did yes.

Speaker 4 (02:05:33):
I did no, you fucking did All right.

Speaker 1 (02:05:35):
I can tell you right now, the minute this started to
get the way it was, I'm walkingaway.
I I'm hoping I this stop initself is not based on law,
although he's got the law toback him up.

(02:05:56):
This is a ego pissed off policeissue and it went.
I think he expected complianceand he didn't get it and now
he's doubling down.
I could see that that that'swhere I'm getting Doubling down.
I don't like this.
This is an ego.
Stop.
If I'm your sergeant and I seethis, we're going to have a talk
on this.
Stop, because what are youhoping to get on this?

(02:06:19):
What are you going to get?

Speaker 2 (02:06:21):
Drive faster.

Speaker 1 (02:06:22):
Yeah, drive faster, sir.
Like hey, dude, I pulled youover because you're driving so
slow on a speed limit.
You're impeding traffic.
I just need to drive faster.
Have a nice day, that's it.

Speaker 5 (02:06:33):
That's it, super easy .
Yeah, I'm not going to give himlike an olive branch or
anything, but if he's in thearea, he is observing other
vehicles and observing a coupleof them that are driving slow.

Speaker 1 (02:06:46):
Maybe because I'm observing a couple of them that
are driving slow.
Maybe they've been havingbreak-ins in that area Fair, but
you've got to be creeping, not10, under You're still driving.

Speaker 5 (02:06:52):
But if you're that obvious that the guy that you
stopped thinks that you'refollowing him, there's that
issue too.

Speaker 1 (02:06:58):
Yeah, and obviously this guy knew that the cop was
following him.
Like I said, there was somebuildup before this happened.
This is why this interaction ishappening, and I think that
this cop knew that he's likehe's going to do one of those.
Oh, you're going to fuck around.
Well, now you're going to findout.
This is a flex of the badge.
I don't like this.

Speaker 4 (02:07:20):
You didn't you didn't pull this guy over for a legit
reason.

Speaker 1 (02:07:33):
You pulled him over to flex the badge.
This is bullshit.
This is what pisses people off.
This is I don't.
I don't like this motherfucker.
This is illegal?
No, it is not.
Yes, it is fuck you now.
And this is the problem I have.
Is it technically?

Speaker 2 (02:07:38):
probably isn't illegal, it's not.
It's not illegal.
But just because it's notillegal doesn't mean it's not.
You know, going on your side ofthings doesn't mean it's not
right.
Obviously, it is really hard tomake any discernible decision
on this because we're seeing asmall snippet.
We have no idea what hisvehicle movement was on the
roadway.
We have no idea how long thecop was following him.

(02:08:00):
We have no idea what the copdid, what he did Like.
You can't make a decision basedon this.
This is a law enforcementofficer walking up in a traffic
stop and this guy being pissed.
It automatically paints thisguy in a bad, a bad spot, but we
have no idea.
Like it's videos like this thatI hate because you have no idea

(02:08:20):
the context and people make allthese these snap and I I
haven't.
I've known that this videoexisted.
I've never watched it, I justknew that it existed.
It's the first time I've everwatched one second of it, but I
know it did happen roughly inthe vicinity where I live.

Speaker 1 (02:08:39):
I'm not going to say that I'm old.
I am speculating, 100%.
I am speculating.
I'm just going off of my one mytraining experience, which is a
default, but I'm going off myability to read people and the
answers that this cop is givingtells me that this is an ego.
Stop, that's just.
I'm just giving you my opinion.
It doesn't mean it's right andI can pull that.

(02:08:59):
I can retract that informationIf I see something from the dash
cam footage or something elsethat comes out later on.
But to bridge that gap with thecommunity where they get so
tired of seeing cops use theirego on shit, this is one of
those examples I'm seeing rightnow.
That is my opinion on this sofar.
Now, perry Lemley said exactlywhat I was thinking too.

(02:09:21):
My boy is probably on a littlebit of roids.

Speaker 2 (02:09:25):
Well, there's that.

Speaker 1 (02:09:27):
Yeah, he's definitely way more angry than he needs to
be on this one, so I'm gonnaget your fucking superior here
right now.

Speaker 4 (02:09:35):
For what get your fucking superior here?

Speaker 1 (02:09:37):
you fucking fuck give me, your, I mean like, that's
like, what does it mean?

Speaker 2 (02:09:41):
they're coming out like the the cops hasn't raised
his voice at all.
He's just talking to this guyand this guy's like in this
crazy rage yeah, um, definitelymad.

Speaker 1 (02:09:51):
He's almost like a wwf star right now, or w sorry
wwe, I'm sure wwe yes, the worldwildlife federation yeah, they
would not like that.
Yeah, so, uh, yeah, but I meanif, if the stop is an ego stop,
his anger is justified.

Speaker 2 (02:10:11):
So yeah, an emotional response like that, yeah, never

(02:10:32):
justified.

Speaker 1 (02:10:33):
Now, one of the problems, guys, even though I'm
so far, I'm on the side thatthis cop's doing some bullshit.
Just because he can doesn'tmean he should.
That's the way I see this one.
Yes, he can technically pullyou over.
I don't think he should.
That's the way I see this one.
Yes, he can technically pullyou over.
I don't think he should havebased on what we see in this
video.
Again, there could have beensome other factors that he just

(02:10:54):
didn't articulate.
I don't know, but I'm stillleaning towards this as an ego
thing.
He knows it's being recordedand he knows that he's got this
guy emotionally compromised.
So he gets to play the coolcard and look even better.
So, um, but what he absolutelycannot do the driver he's got a

(02:11:14):
legal justification.
You cannot hinder theinvestigation.
He asked for the license.
You can say no, I don't want todo that, but I'm going to give
it to you because you're tellingme to.
It's a lawful order, but I'mdoing this under protest.
Say that, yeah, but and in thisofficer, he may have a policy
requirement to let hissupervisor know hey, this guy

(02:11:36):
wants to see you, but there's nolaw, at least in arizona or in
texas, that that supervisor hasto make the scene.
So there's that.

Speaker 5 (02:11:46):
He did, he did call for a supervisor in another unit
.
So I would tell him all right,can I see your driver's license?

Speaker 2 (02:11:52):
Yeah, I have a supervisor.
Come on, there's a way to useyour words.
Exactly Like you said hey man,boss is coming, he's on his way.
Obviously, phoenix is a bigcity so he's coming.
Grab your driver's license so Ican take care of what I gotta
take care of.
When you get here, you talk tothe boss.
By the time that's done, we'llbe done.
We can all go super easy way.

Speaker 1 (02:12:12):
Use your words yep, yeah, marine blood.
I always drive 50 miles perhour under the speed limit for
safety.
I try to avoid roads at 25.
I like it.

Speaker 2 (02:12:23):
I like it.
I like your numbers.

Speaker 1 (02:12:25):
That's what?
Yeah, yeah, shut up.

Speaker 4 (02:12:30):
Did you not just sit back there?
Did you not just fucking sitback there?

Speaker 5 (02:12:35):
I don't give a fuck what, ashley, has you doing,
fuck?

Speaker 4 (02:12:37):
your mother, fuck your mother, I like it.
Fuck, you Get yourmotherfucking superior.

Speaker 2 (02:12:46):
He's on his way.
You want him to magically popup.
He is on his way.
I like it.
Fuck you, fuck you.
Get your motherfucking superior.
I know the fucking law.

Speaker 4 (02:12:47):
You want him to magically pop up.
He is on his way.

Speaker 2 (02:12:50):
I call for him.
He is on his way.
I need your driver's license.

Speaker 4 (02:12:53):
Fuck you.
You have any weapons in the carI'm going to fucking knock you
out.

Speaker 1 (02:12:58):
Ooh, now we're getting.

Speaker 2 (02:13:00):
That's a little pre-fight indicator there.

Speaker 1 (02:13:06):
Yeah, that's a perfect indicator.

Speaker 5 (02:13:07):
I don't like that Because he's about to say I'm
going to fucking knock you out.
And if we're getting to thispoint where your finger's almost
to the point where it comesinto the screen, I'm not liking
that either.

Speaker 2 (02:13:14):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (02:13:23):
Yeah, Okay.
So this is going to go into one, this new Supreme Court ruling
that I've been talking aboutwith use of force on police or
use of force with police.
There was a case where a guyjumps on a fleeing vehicle and
ends up firing rounds at anotherdriver, killing him, and they
end up calling that the momentof moment of something.

Speaker 2 (02:13:40):
Oh, you know what I read that?

Speaker 1 (02:13:42):
Yeah, I put a video out about it.
I just can't remember the nameof that moment of me wasn't the
moment of decision.
Um moment of shit supreme courtruling on use of force um
moment of threat.
Moment of threat, thank you.
So, on the moment of threat,they ruled that that no longer

(02:14:06):
bears.
They no longer honor the momentof threat argument and in this
one that we're watching rightnow, if they shit sorry, the
other video started playing.
So, on the moment of threat, bythem taking that away, one of
the things that they said isthat they're going to look at

(02:14:27):
the totality of everything forwhen you use force.
So if we end up having to useforce on this guy here, let's
say we can count, we can countthis yeah, but we can also count
the fact that we pulled himover for going under 30 or going
10 miles under the speed limit,and now that's going to be a
factor against that cop if hegoes to deadly force here.

Speaker 2 (02:14:48):
Absolutely.
But Arizona state law and theNational Highway Traffic Safety
Administration have both saidthat's a reasonable reason for
stop.
So you're not against the lawand the way that Eric looks at
things.
Why wouldn't make that stop?
The fact of the matter is it'son the law.
If the legislature didn't wantit to be on the law, they could
repeal it.
However, if it's on the law,it's the law and this guy's

(02:15:13):
response to being pulled over isabsolutely unacceptable.

Speaker 1 (02:15:16):
Fair, but, like I said, with this ruling, the stop
that that officer had made wasa legitimate stop, but when the
car took off, he jumped on thecar and started firing.
So let's say, this guy goes no,I'm not giving you my id he
grabs, he goes to get in his carand now we get to use the force
.
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (02:15:36):
This supreme court ruling could end up fucking this
cop and it all comes down tothis guy's failure to obey
lawful orders right that's it,it's this, it is everything goes
back to I fight it in court.
Yes, the answer is fight it incourt.
Fight.
Go to the police departmentwhen you're calm, not your veins
busting out of your shoulder,and say, look, I think this is

(02:15:58):
bullshit.
I want you to, yeah, I want totalk to this guy's boss.
I want you to pull the body oncamera video.
I want to pull this guy's stats.
I want to see why he's pullingpeople over.
This is bullshit and I want itaddressed.
I totally I, that's the way.
And then go to court and tellthe judge hey, this guy's
bullshit, this, this and this.
Let's look at the body oncamera video.
That's where you fight it.

(02:16:18):
You don't.
And if this officer violatedthis guy's rights, the Phoenix
police department is going topull out their checkbook.
They're going to write a checkto this guy and say, hey, we're
really sorry that our officerviolated your rights.
We're going to take him off theroad.
We're going to give himadditional training.
You know, if this is the thirdtime he's done it, maybe he gets
fired.
You know, whatever, whatevertheir continuum is for for

(02:16:39):
discipline, but that's where youfight this.
You don't fight it on the sideof the road with this cop.
It's not the right place.
It's not the right time.

Speaker 1 (02:16:47):
Right.

Speaker 2 (02:16:47):
So this guy, no matter what, no matter how you
you look at it, no matter howyou cut this pie, this guy is in
the valley of wrong right now.
It's not and whether he doesn't, he's not on the right.
But no matter what he does, man, settle down, deal with it and
then work it up the chain, takeit to the police department,

(02:17:08):
take it to the attorneygeneral's office, take it to
court, fight it everywhere else.
But you're having a one-on-oneargument where you're getting
yourself all riled up becauseyou have app, you have zero for
emotional intelligence and youhave no ability to dictate your
own emotions.
Um, like this doesn't doanything to anyone, but you
could really screw this cop ifhe's doing stuff wrong by

(02:17:30):
bringing it up to superiors andworking it that way.
This does nothing.

Speaker 1 (02:17:34):
Totally unconstructive.
I don't agree with this, butlet's see how it plays out.

Speaker 4 (02:17:39):
You're a fucking fuck right now, kid, and you know
you are.

Speaker 2 (02:17:40):
How is this illegal?

Speaker 4 (02:17:41):
Cracking me down, stalking me, you little fucking
turd.
Stalking me.
Oh shit.
He's unhappy, he's unhappyidentify yourself with a

(02:18:03):
driver's license.
My name is fucking Sam, fuckingPerrone.
What is your birthday?
What's your birthday?
What is your birthday?

Speaker 2 (02:18:13):
See Not providing evidence of identity.

Speaker 1 (02:18:17):
I'm not going to lie.
The driver's winning me over.

Speaker 5 (02:18:21):
He's a good shit talker.

Speaker 1 (02:18:22):
I like a good shit talker, I like a good shit
talker.
What's your fuckinger?
What's your fucking?

Speaker 3 (02:18:27):
name?
What's your birthday?

Speaker 1 (02:18:29):
Yeah, what's your birthday?
I like this guy.

Speaker 4 (02:18:32):
Pull me over, Thor.
Why did you stop?
Why did you stop, you littlepunk-ass bitch?
Why did you stop?

Speaker 2 (02:18:38):
Park, there Park there?

Speaker 4 (02:18:41):
Why did you stop there?
Why did you fucking stop there?
You're fucking scared, youlittle bitch.
Why didn't you stop there?
Why didn't you fucking stopthere?

Speaker 1 (02:18:47):
You're fucking scared , you little bitch, I'm scared.

Speaker 2 (02:18:53):
Shit, I was bigger than this guy.
I bet you some of those tatsare from prison.

Speaker 1 (02:18:58):
Fucking brick shithouse over here.
That's a stout dude I don'tknow a whole lot of people that
have shoulder veins.

Speaker 2 (02:19:03):
so I'll tell you right now this guy beat this
officer's ass.
I don't even know what theofficer looks like.
I don't either.

Speaker 4 (02:19:11):
Fuck your mother.
Go get your goddamn superior.
Fuck your mother, bitch, getout of my face.

Speaker 2 (02:19:17):
Fuck your mother, bitch, get out of my face.

Speaker 4 (02:19:20):
Fuck you Shut up there it is.
There's my fucking.

Speaker 2 (02:19:23):
No, fuck you, I ain't handing you shit, fuck you.

Speaker 3 (02:19:25):
I ain't handing you shit, sir do you have insurance
I ain't handing you shit.

Speaker 4 (02:19:29):
Do you have insurance ?
Back the fuck up, I'm notbacking up.
Back the fuck up off me.
Do you have insurance?
Yeah See, I don't like that.

Speaker 5 (02:19:39):
Not until you fuck this shit up.
He said it.
What are we going to do here?

Speaker 2 (02:19:43):
He's definitely not being safe.
This officer is so lucky thisguy didn't beat his ass.

Speaker 5 (02:19:47):
Yeah, he's not being safe this right here.
He's closing the.
You're going to the ground.

Speaker 1 (02:19:54):
But again, this is not the behavior of an officer
that knows he's in the right.
If I know I'm in the right, I'mback to taser.
Boom, you're going.
I can argue.

Speaker 2 (02:20:07):
I'm not going hands-on with this fucking.
I'd rather just talk to himuntil two or three other guys
get there and then we can workwith it.

Speaker 1 (02:20:11):
I'm not taking it by myself yeah, fair, I'm with you
on that, but, like I said, Ijust like I'm still on that.

Speaker 2 (02:20:18):
This is an ego stop and now he's just a big back for
a Taser.

Speaker 4 (02:20:24):
You're failing to fucking follow the law.
Sir, this is illegal.
This is fucking illegal whatyou're fucking doing.
You back the fuck up.
You back the fuck up.
I ain't backing the fuck up.
I ain't backing the fuck up.
You just have to fucking grabthat shit, motherfucker.

Speaker 5 (02:20:39):
His vein has a vein.

Speaker 4 (02:20:41):
I know Little fucking punk, little fucking punk, fuck
you.

Speaker 1 (02:20:46):
Back the fuck you Now we have problems, and that guy
I mean.

Speaker 2 (02:20:50):
he.

Speaker 4 (02:20:51):
Now you're not going to fucking arrest me, sir, back
up.
You back, the fuck up you backthe fuck up.

Speaker 2 (02:20:57):
He's such a bitch.
What is that, what is this?
What are you?

Speaker 1 (02:21:00):
doing with this?
We're in a pushing match.
I don't understand.

Speaker 2 (02:21:04):
Oh, how terrible.

Speaker 5 (02:21:08):
I don't think someone can be that hard and drive a
chrysler 200 though it's notexactly.
Yeah, it's not a 300, it's nota srt, it's not even got a hemi
in it, it's not even rear wheeldrive.
Yeah, the windows aren't tinted.

Speaker 4 (02:21:21):
How hard are you going to be?
You should not touch me.
You should not fucking touch me.
I told you to back up.
He's backing up.
Dude, please, again, pleasestop Again.
Please stop walking up on me.
I'm on my goddamn car.

Speaker 2 (02:21:37):
I'm on my car, here we go All right, come on, bitch,
step it up, we're fighting.
Come on, step it up, we'refighting.
You're not fighting.

Speaker 1 (02:21:45):
Okay, did you guys see the video that I just said
before this about howdeescalating too much can lead
into a larger use of force?
Now I don't know what's goingto happen here, but if he had
handled business immediatelylike he should have, maybe we
wouldn't have been here.
Come on Winnie, Come on, WinnieCome on Winnie, come on Winnie,

(02:22:09):
come on Winnie, come on WinnieBro we're in a little boxing
match.

Speaker 2 (02:22:14):
Oh shit he's doing pretty good he is.

Speaker 1 (02:22:19):
Oh, here we go.

Speaker 2 (02:22:24):
Oh, here comes John Q Citizen.

Speaker 4 (02:22:28):
John Q Citizen.

Speaker 1 (02:22:38):
You shoot him.

Speaker 5 (02:22:44):
I think so.
If you go back, that lookedlike it ejected his mag.
So it looked like they werefighting over the gun and the
mag ejects.
Look, watch his right arm.
He keeps going back for it theofficer's arm.

Speaker 1 (02:23:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:23:02):
There's, the mag goes out.

Speaker 2 (02:23:04):
Oh yeah, it was Good, and again that guy took the
first swing.

Speaker 5 (02:23:14):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (02:23:16):
Let's see what happens here let's see, on a
traffic stop for a license,escalated verbal, aggressive
demeanor posturing towards okay,I don't care about all this.

Speaker 2 (02:23:28):
It's in the second person uh, doesn't really say.

Speaker 1 (02:23:35):
I wonder what's something uh man local hospital.
Non-life threatening injuriesinvolved officers sustained
multiple injuries as a result ofthe attack he grabbed the
officer's holstered weapon,resulting in the officer
involved shooting, and witnessfilm the interaction from across
the street, which you can seeokay.
So yeah, he did grab his gun.
That's what it looked like, um Iwatched way too much body

(02:23:57):
camera, yeah yeah, it did looklike he was trying to go after
his gun, but, um, again, this isthat de-escalation shit.
Had he just created space, gotlet's say he got his taser out.
Maybe that would have solvedthe problem.
Or again, like this was astupid fucking stop sorry.

Speaker 2 (02:24:21):
Uh, we make stupid.
We make stops for seeminglyinnocuous violations all the
time.
Right, we may, I mean it's.
I write almost no tickets formudflaps or tickets for a
windshield, for a tent on yourwindow, right, seemingly
innocuous stops.
However, those stops, it isgood police work to do them, to

(02:24:41):
make contact, not write a ticket.
Have a great day Away, you go.
That's good police work.
You'll never convince me thatit's not.
However, as a citizen, you don'tget to say I like this law, I
don't like this law.
That's something for thelegislature to do.
For you to talk to your localcongressman.
That is not your decision.

(02:25:02):
To say I don't like that, youpulled me over for this.
Well, guess what?
Talk to your congressman, havehim repeal that portion of
Arizona motor vehicle law.
That's not your decision, noris it my decision.
So absolutely not Again.
Now could this officer and justlike I mean, I say it about my
own contacts.
Not one single contact I thinkI've ever had has been perfect.
I get there's always is betterwords to use as better facial

(02:25:26):
expressions, better inflectionin your voice.
Um, you can approach thesituation more tactically.
There's always something better, and it is absolutely 100% true
for 100% of my stops, I don'tthink a single one is perfect.

Speaker 1 (02:25:39):
My I guess my big picture view of this.
If I really pulled you over fordoing 10 under that, I I'm not
joking frank on this I wouldhave been like, hey, dude, I
just need you to go a littlefaster because you're slowing up
traffic.
I don't need to see yourlicense, anything like that.
Just do that favor for me.
Have a nice night absolutelynothing wrong and I'm walking
back to my car yeah, absolutelynothing wrong with that's where

(02:26:01):
I got into.
This one was a pissing match.
It was an ego match at thebeginning because it just again
and I I'm not monday morningquarterbacking him I'm just
telling you, me personally, howI view that um, and it doesn't
mean that I'm right yeah, Idon't.

Speaker 2 (02:26:16):
I don't know if you're wrong, right um, but this
roid rage dude.
He doesn't get the opportunityto say.
It's not his ability to say.
I don't think you should have,because his first three words
are the most important in thatstatement yeah, it doesn't
matter what it is, it's the law.
It is that officer's job to belike hey, I'm sorry Now, that

(02:26:39):
cop was not writing that guy aticket.
He wasn't going to write him aticket for it.
Yeah, stop stopping Someone.
Slow is a great investigatory.
Stop, nhtsa says it.
Arizona law says it.
Is the guy high?
No, is he drunk?
No, is he distracted?
No, he's just driving slow.
Sir, appreciate you beingcautious.
You drive a little bit fasterwith the flow of traffic.
I'd appreciate it.
You have a great day done.

(02:26:59):
I don't like that.
You stopped me for that.
That doesn't work.

Speaker 1 (02:27:05):
To Eye of the Night.
He said I don't think a taserwould have worked on that meat.

Speaker 2 (02:27:09):
I don't know.
It actually works better.

Speaker 1 (02:27:11):
It actually works better on the big buff dudes.
It travels through water andmuscle.
Actually, the very obese peopleare the ones that it doesn't
work the best on.

Speaker 2 (02:27:25):
That guy's bitching back with that shirt that was
flush against the skin.

Speaker 1 (02:27:28):
Yeah, ah, definitely worked out, yeah, but uh, all
right, let's, uh, let's go toour, our last video here.

Speaker 2 (02:27:38):
Oh cause we've been on for two and a half hours.

Speaker 1 (02:27:40):
I know it's been a good episode though.

Speaker 2 (02:27:41):
I started this and it was light out here.

Speaker 5 (02:27:46):
It's dark, I'm going to put a window down, let's see.

Speaker 2 (02:27:50):
Oh, I saw this.

Speaker 1 (02:27:52):
Okay, so you've seen this one.

Speaker 2 (02:27:54):
Just a little bit of it.
I only know the first.

Speaker 1 (02:27:56):
You know what?
I've seen clips of it.
I think I know this one too.
I don't know what happens withit.

Speaker 2 (02:28:01):
I just know what happens right here.

Speaker 1 (02:28:03):
I have seen this one Light gray know what happens
right here.

Speaker 4 (02:28:06):
I have seen this one.
I've seen this.

Speaker 1 (02:28:07):
Yeah, just down there .

Speaker 4 (02:28:09):
Perfect, not an admission of guilt, just stating
that you show up on or beforethe court date.

Speaker 2 (02:28:12):
okay, he sees this guy Like his hands are down.
That guy needs to get his assbeat all day long.

Speaker 1 (02:28:36):
Yeah, he actually stabbed the cop.

Speaker 2 (02:28:39):
Oh, he stabbed him.

Speaker 1 (02:28:40):
Yeah, in the head.

Speaker 2 (02:28:42):
Oh, I didn't know that.
Edmund police Edmund.

Speaker 5 (02:28:51):
This was pretty recent too, wasn't it May?

Speaker 1 (02:28:54):
1st May, 1st I think he I don't know if he sprays
them first and then stabs themor stabs them and then sprays
them.

Speaker 5 (02:29:05):
I think it's spray.
Then stab yeah, because he's,he sprays them first.

Speaker 1 (02:29:07):
Right, right Now hes him and then sprays him.
I think it's spray then stabyeah, because he's spray right
now he's got the pepper sprayface.
Yeah, those eyes.

Speaker 4 (02:29:13):
Yes, I only ask.
We need to take the knife awayfrom him, sir.
I only ask Drop it, drop it,drop it, sir, drop it, sir, drop
it, drop it, sir, sir, drop it.
You do me this right dude inthe face.

Speaker 1 (02:29:29):
Sir, sir, drop it, drop it.
Sir, sir, drop it, please dropit.
It's another benefit ofgrappling.
I can roll you, I can grappleyou with my eyes shut.
I don't need to see you.
I know where your arms are, Iknow where your, your legs are.
That's one of my favorite.
I will slow roll with peopleand keep my eyes shut the entire
match.
That is how grappling will helpyou, especially in what we do.

(02:29:49):
Because, frank, every timepepper spray gets used, not by a
citizen, but by another officerwho gets sprayed.

Speaker 2 (02:29:57):
Every single person within 20 feet.
Yes, I hate pepper spray.
I hate it.

Speaker 1 (02:30:02):
So I can fight through it.
Because I can fight with myeyes shut, I can deal with
people.
This is one of those instanceswhere if you've got some decent
grappling skills, it directlyapplies to your job.
You should be doing it.
Cops, you should be blue beltsin jiu-jitsu.

Speaker 4 (02:30:19):
Please don't hurt anybody, Please.

Speaker 1 (02:30:22):
Get off my radio, please don't drop anything.

Speaker 4 (02:30:26):
Don't drop it, sir.
Drop it, sir, drop it.

Speaker 1 (02:30:35):
I would be dropping ever-loving bombs on this dude.

Speaker 2 (02:30:38):
I was going to say, man, that's.

Speaker 1 (02:30:39):
There's no fucking way he would be eating so many
elbows that his teeth would havebeen my elbows.
That's what it would have been.

Speaker 5 (02:30:47):
There's no way If his head hit the back of the floor
and early ground that it lostconsciousness and then there was
no more fight in him.

Speaker 2 (02:30:55):
Yeah, then you could handcuff him and be done with it
.

Speaker 1 (02:30:58):
Yeah, I would have been laying down the bows.
Ludicrous would have been inthe background.

Speaker 4 (02:31:04):
Shoot me man.
Oh them bones 22.
Yes, you do, buddy.
You have everything to live for.

Speaker 1 (02:31:12):
No, I think this is just Joe Blow's citizen helping
out.
It is.

Speaker 2 (02:31:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:31:17):
But I ain't doing that.
There we go, there, we go,there, we go, there we go.

Speaker 1 (02:31:20):
Damn, that was a big knife.

Speaker 4 (02:31:36):
That's like a butcher knife.
Yeah, I didn't see that.
That was not smart.
Alright, and now there's help.
I got nothing left.
Hurry up, hurry up, hurry up,shoot, yep, yep, yep, got him.

Speaker 5 (02:31:49):
Come on.
Come on, I'm okay with that.
You're telling your backup.
I got nothing left in me, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:31:55):
I'm okay with that.
I'm okay with that man Becauseit lets him know don't defend on
me.

Speaker 5 (02:31:59):
Yeah, if you're at this point, he's getting that on
for me.
I'm a big fan of civilian too,because he steps in and then he
kind of steps back a little bitwhen backup gets there and they
kind of it's like hold on armyou.

Speaker 4 (02:32:18):
Okay, buddy, hold what you got, yeah, what you got
.
I got him Six, nine, four,three, four units.
Tase it, nope, nope, nope, tasehim, tase him, tase him, dude,
tase the shit out of him.
That's a civilian.

Speaker 1 (02:32:33):
I love it.
He's like no, no, no, tase him,tase the shit out of him.
I didn't see all this.

Speaker 2 (02:32:42):
I didn't either.
I always saw the first fiveseconds.

Speaker 1 (02:32:43):
I saw the part where the cop gets attacked.
That's the only part.
I saw Ride it, that's a favor.

Speaker 2 (02:32:54):
Ten that's a new one eh yeah, that's what we have.

Speaker 4 (02:32:59):
Yeah, get him Okay, okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (02:33:01):
Get him Okay.

Speaker 4 (02:33:05):
Get him.

Speaker 1 (02:33:07):
Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.
This is the best thing, mostexciting thing that's ever
happened in this guy's life.
We guarantee it, this guy'sgoing to be talking about this
story the rest of his life.

Speaker 4 (02:33:17):
He's bad.
He's bad, get him help.

Speaker 1 (02:33:21):
He's bad.
He's bad.
Get him help.
He is bad.

Speaker 5 (02:33:23):
Did you hear what happened to Charlie on his lunch
break?

Speaker 1 (02:33:27):
Right.
Nobody would believe him ifthey didn't see the body cam
video.

Speaker 5 (02:33:32):
Oh, he had outstanding warrants for
distributing child stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:33:38):
Oh, so it was a child predator.

Speaker 5 (02:33:40):
Oh, that's a good way to turn yourself in.
I mean not so good, but that'sone way to do it.

Speaker 1 (02:33:47):
So let me read this out loud provocation hudson
unleashed a cloud of pepperspray, followed with a knife
attack on the officer, uh,temporarily blinding him.
The officer, through thebleeding and struggling, fought
back altercation, rage.
Passing, good samaritan jumpedin, wrestling the knife from
hudson, facing outstandingwarrants for distributing uh,

(02:34:11):
disturbing child exploitationcharges, reportedly told the
officer they had nothing left tolive for and begged to be shot.
Despite the attack, officerhudson hodom called for backup.
I want to know what his injurywas.
Officer Horton was taken to thehospital for surgery, so he
must have been stabbed likelegit stabbed if he needed

(02:34:33):
surgery, because to me it justlooked like he had a cut on his
head, but if he's gettingsurgery, yeah, he was legit
stabbed.
We'll stop sharing that.
Yeah, that was crazy.

Speaker 5 (02:34:48):
It's a stud for staying in a fight, though.
Yeah, yeah and not shooting.

Speaker 2 (02:34:51):
I mean, he had every justification to shoot on that
one probably couldn't, even justI couldn't see that he had a
knife yeah, well, I mean just, II'll shoot you if you pepper
spray me I, I agree I think, Ithink you're 100% at that.
I think he's good with holdingon to that guy and pumping him
full.
He is absolutely out of thefight, has no ability to defend

(02:35:14):
himself.

Speaker 1 (02:35:14):
Yep, I would have for sure.
I was thinking that, yeah, butwith that that's insane.
So that's all the videos I have.
I do have one thing that Iwanted to uh let people know of,
uh, so I want to give you guysa quick update on our
partnership with uh DTV, thedonut network.

(02:35:35):
So I've told you guys aboutthis.
In the background, I've alreadykind of teased you with one of
the show ideas that I want to dowith Frank and uh Sheriff lamb.
So we've got that in the works.
But everything is moving fullsteam ahead, as you guys know.
So DTV is going to be a newYouTube network that we're going
to have.
That's created by cops, firstresponders.

(02:35:58):
We're going to have felons,people that have served time.
We're going to have shows withthem, everything that goes with
the criminal justice system andwhat view we can give you from
behind the badge, which I thinkis something you guys have come
to appreciate.
With what we're doing to all befair and balanced, we're trying
to give you the most fair andbalanced look that we can give.

(02:36:19):
The project is still indevelopment.
We're working to get that stuffto you guys with the exclusive
content ideas that we have, fromtalk shows to docutainments, to
documentaries, reality series.
I'll give you a teaser.
One of the things that we'retrying to work on is we're
trying to get with Guy Fieri thecook.
He runs a nonprofit and we'retrying to have a firefighter

(02:36:44):
cook-off show where we competeto firefighter precincts I don't
know what they call itFirehouses.

Speaker 2 (02:36:51):
Houses.

Speaker 1 (02:36:51):
Yeah, against each other.
But again, for the educationalside, it's all going to go to
charity Tunnels, to Towers.
That's where we're going to putthe money towards and with that
you guys will learn a littlehistory of the houses, the
reasons they do some of thestuff they do.
That you guys will learn alittle history of the houses,
the reasons they do some of thestuff they do, the traditions of
their fire department houses.
So that's one of the ideas thatwe're going to bring to you
guys.

(02:37:12):
So these are the things thatwe're working for.
Guy Fieri has not signed withanything, but we're working to
get them.
We have some people connectedto them.
So stay tuned for that type ofstuff.
Two Cops, one Donut is underthat umbrella with DTV and we're
going to teach you guys andshow you guys how you can become

(02:37:32):
a part of what we're doing.
And you know, through thetransparency and the educational
side of entertainment is whatwe're trying to bring you all.
So I want you guys to lookforward to that.
I am Everything's still movingforward.
We're going to have more stuffcoming.
You guys know Daniel, we'regoing to get Daniel out there.
One of the things I want him topush is talking about case law

(02:37:53):
and keeping officers andcitizens updated on case law and
why and what the arguments arefor the citizen side, for the
police side, all of that stuff,and giving you guys the voice to
talk about it.

Speaker 2 (02:38:06):
And how important that is, because case law
governs everything.

Speaker 1 (02:38:09):
Yep, yep, absolutely, and we fully plan to
incorporate you, the viewers,into those shows, like we've
done already.
We've had Mr Billfold on theshow, we've had Tim on the show,
we've had Kingslayer on theshow.
I want you guys to always havea voice in those types of shows
that we have.

(02:38:30):
So I think that's one of theunique draws that we have is,
we're not talking at you, we'retalking with you.
So I think that that's one ofthe differences that we do here,
and we don't shy away from itjust because you're not saying
what we like to hear.

Speaker 2 (02:38:44):
Sometimes there's valid points.
I mean sometimes there's validpoints.
I mean sometimes there'sabsolutely no validity
whatsoever, but sometimesthere's really overwhelmingly
super valid points and coming upsomething, coming from a
different point of view, tobroaden your, you know, broaden
your.
Your paradigm where you getyour information from is awesome
, yeah I know, talk faster, it'sbedtime it's also bedtime for
me.

Speaker 1 (02:39:06):
Ozark Moon said I love not having a bedtime.

Speaker 2 (02:39:08):
See, that must be nice One day.

Speaker 1 (02:39:12):
All right, guys, that's all I got for tonight.
We definitely went a littleover what our normal time is,
but we did miss last week.
Thank you guys.
Thank you Please.
If you don't have the monetary,financial freedom to donate
towards the show, know, if youdon't have the monetary, uh,
financial freedom to donatetowards the show.
Um, you guys know, I don't pushfor that shit ever.
I wait till the very end, Uh,so if you're with me and you

(02:39:33):
want to support what we're doing, please jump on there.
Do the super gifts, do all thatstuff.
Um, thank you to those that diddonate tonight.
All that money goes directlyback into the show.
It doesn't go to mynon-existent Lamborghini, Um, so
thank you for that, Frank.
Let them know where they canfind you, sir.

Speaker 2 (02:39:48):
So, uh, first of all, thank you, Thanks for the
invite tonight.
Um, I appreciate always being,uh, being being part of the
future donut network, um, so, onuh, facebook, I'm Frank slope,
uh.
On YouTube, I am also Frankslope, uh.
And then on Tik TOK andInstagram, I am also Frank Slope
, and then on TikTok andInstagram, I am
frankslopeofficial and I see alittle picture of me.

(02:40:10):
I think I'm wearing this hat.
We post stuff, we do somereaction videos very similar to
what Eric does, about threetimes a week, and we go live
every once in a while formembers and we just kick stuff
out.
I do a lot of personal stuff onthere, so that's it.

Speaker 1 (02:40:25):
All right, deadleg, kick stuff out.
I do a lot of personal stuff onthere, so that's it.
Yeah, all right, dead leg.
You, sir, what do you got going?

Speaker 5 (02:40:30):
on.
How can people find you?
Besides all the wonderful workwe're doing here and then the
stuff that you and I have talkedabout, that we're working with
behind the scenes, we got somethings that we're working on.
I also do a thing with erictansy.
Every wednesday it's called foxnews f-a-w-k-e-s talk about
everything in the news.
It's pretty much it's a once aweek show and then we might have
one or two things throughoutthe week that sprinkle in, but

(02:40:52):
usually there's enough news tocover.
And then on Fridays I do casebreakdowns with Eric for failure
to stop.
So every Friday he and I willdo a very longer format of just
one case We'll go look into,we'll pull in maybe the
officer's background, we'll pullthe suspect's background try to
give that more context otherthan he was just doing 10 under.

(02:41:12):
Well, maybe he's doing 10 underbecause they were over there
and they were working a trafficstop or they were working at you
know an accident, or they were,you know they worked at
something over there a coupleweeks ago.
There's there's usually a reasonwhy you make contact with a car
, cause I always looked atpolice work.
As you know, I had 10 to 12hours a day.
I might as well make the bestof it.

(02:41:34):
So let's make it valuable.
So every hour I wanted to havesomething valuable.
I want to have something.
So if I was going to dosomething, there was a reason
behind it.
So even if I was just gettingout to talk to you, it's like,
hey, you're flashing these othercars Cause I'm running speed.
What's the deal?
Even if it's just a stop totalk like that, we'll talk and
it'll just go on.
It'd be the end of the day.

Speaker 2 (02:41:51):
Also illegal for Arizona case law.

Speaker 5 (02:41:53):
Yeah, yeah, that's why you wait.

Speaker 1 (02:41:58):
Wait for them to go by and then find the
registration is expired, thenfucking news.
Uh, buddy, fucking news.

Speaker 2 (02:42:04):
I like it, like it we all know a blue falcon oh, geez
, hey, guess what frank.

Speaker 1 (02:42:10):
Apparently you need to be under the jail for no less
than 20 years.
Oh, I don't know what you didto earn 20 years in jail, but no
, under under the jail.

Speaker 2 (02:42:20):
Under the jail, that means that I gotta be buried.
And then you put a jail on topof me.

Speaker 1 (02:42:24):
She's going to be very heavy that's going to be a
lot of taxpayer money just tosend a message.
Yeah, that you won't even getbecause you'll be dead yeah,
totally, totally useless I guess.
so, all right, guys, everybody.
Uh, thank you for uh joining inand having fun.
My mom is chastising steve forsaying that it's totally on com
4.
Mom put you in the corner.

(02:42:45):
Thanks, mom, damn Everybody.
Thanks for joining on tonight.
Go check out DTV.
We've already got an Instagramup.
We don't have a YouTube yet, Idon't think, but we have
Instagram and LinkedIn.
At least Go follow those.
We're going to eventually startposting some content on there,
can't wait.
All right, guys, it's been fun.

(02:43:07):
Everybody boo.

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