We Break Down How Poor Training, Not Bad Intent, Fuels Bad Policing And What To Fix First

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_05 (00:00):
Disclaimer.
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Any content provided by guestsis of their own volition, and

(00:20):
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Two Cops One Donut and its hostdo not accept any liability for
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Thank you for listening.

(00:48):
All right, welcome back to CopsOne Donut.
I'm your host, Sergeant EricLevine.
With me today, I have the one,the only big ginger beard
bastard banning Sweatland.
And with me, our special guestonce again, the Officer George
Lopez, not the comedian.
Not the comedian.
Good to be here, man.
Thanks for having me.
Appreciate it.

(01:09):
What's going on out there in theuh two cops, one donut verse?
Is that a thing?
I just made that up.
Uh so today's episode, y'all.
What we plan to kind of discussis George and I were having like
a side conversation.
Just, you know, he was a littledisheartened that um he joined
the Discord and he's like, Man,I cannot believe how many videos

(01:31):
that your people find of copskind of screwing the pooch.
Behaving badly.
Behaving badly.
Yeah.
And that kind of brought thetheme in my head.
And I've said this before onmultiple occasions.
Cops are, you know, 99.9% outthere are doing the right thing.
Doing the right thing.
It's not that I don't think 99%of them aren't doing the right

(01:52):
thing.
I think that number is overlyinflated.
I think there's less of themdoing the right thing.
And by doing the right thing,what I'm referring to is poor
training.
I still don't think that there'scops that are out there.
Um, there's there's many copsout there.
I don't think that there's thatmany cops out there doing the
wrong thing intentionally.

(02:13):
I think they've got poortraining.
Um, I think they completelymisunderstand some of the the
laws and how the constitutionworks.
I think they've got skewed waysthat people have been telling
them how it does work.
And that is just going to breedmore and more bread training.
So that is what we're going tobe talking about.
Oh, Jude Ramsey, I just want topoint this one out.

(02:33):
Uh, and we do have Alan behindthe scenes, y'all.
Alan is in the house.
Um, so he's going to be showingthe comments and helping us out
and doing all that stuff.
Uh, but yeah, and like MikeCucumber said, we can do better,
Eric.
First thing we have to do isacknowledge the problem.
And I I agree.
I think that that's kind of whatwe got going.
But before we get going downthat path, I gotta give a shout

(02:56):
out.
You guys know I talked to aboutSmoke Wagon just about every
show that we do on live stream.
I gave a shout out to SmokeWagon on their Instagram page.
And this particular bottle, it'scalled 777.
I mean, get it up here to the tothe camera.
There you go.
So I commented, I was like,that's pretty cool.

(03:18):
You guys are out thereinnovating, doing stuff.
And they sent me a bottle.
Pretty cool, not an officialsponsor or anything like that,
but uh yeah, they sent me abottle, and I was like, cool.
So I poured me a glass, I took anice fancy picture of it and
shared it.
Thanks, guys.
Really appreciate it.
This is amazing.
I tasted it, it's really good.
Well, then somebody said, Man,you got some pricey taste, and
I'm like, What do they mean?

(03:39):
So I looked it up, it's like an$1,100 bottle of freaking booze
that that I'm sharing with myfriend.
So salute.
This is his first time ever eventasting smoke wagon.
So I want to know what youthink.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (03:55):
Oh my God.
Oh, I forgot to drink mine.
Oh, I didn't, Eric didn't giveme any.

SPEAKER_06 (04:01):
Howdy, what do you think?
That's really good.
You like that?
Yeah.
Okay.
I'm not a connoisseur by anymeans, but yeah, I know I know
that that's good.

SPEAKER_05 (04:08):
Exactly.
Um what's the oh Alan?
That's it's George, GeorgeLopez.
Alan.
Alan's behind the scenes, hedoesn't know.
Uh, too funny.
Uh George with a J.
Now we're G.
Yeah.
Yep.
J-O-R-G-E.
Yep.
George.

(04:30):
Yeah, exactly.
At your service, my guy.
Um, oh, and we are alsosimultaneously on Instagram,
which is a vertical platform.
So I apologize if it looks alittle weird for my people over
on Instagram.
Uh, we will try to get your uhyour comments up there.
I see BS Narcotics.
No, that doesn't stand forbullshit narcotics, that stands
for Brandon Smith Narcotics.

(04:51):
He actually trains, he actuallytrained people up with us with
Nasty.

SPEAKER_08 (04:55):
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (04:56):
And we just did our last episode.
Uh, so make sure you guys checkout the new podcast that was
just released um with BSNarcotics and uh Chris McNasty
McNulty.
Uh great dude, knows this stuffabout gang.
Rich Kramer in the house.
What's up over there onInstagram?
Make sure you guys check outRich's channel.
Uh John Kendurcey says, keepdoing what you're doing.

(05:21):
Thanks.
Retiring after 26 years, January6th.
You made it, brother.

SPEAKER_06 (05:25):
Yep.

SPEAKER_05 (05:25):
Way to go.
You made it.
He goes, now there's twoGeorges.
Who are you?
El Chivo.
Uh, too funny.

SPEAKER_06 (05:34):
There's only one George.

SPEAKER_05 (05:35):
Um, going over.
Yep, we did get some new mods.
We got some new YouTube mods.
We got some new Facebook andInstagram mods.
We are trying to expand, y'all.
So uh appreciate everybodyhelping out, stepping up.
Um, LinkedIn users said wish youall a very Merry Christmas.
That's got to be banning'speople.
They're so sweet over there.

(05:55):
Instagram sucks for live stream.
Yeah, it does suck for livestream.
We have not been getting thelove over there.
Um, you can't even see how manypeople are on right now over
there.
But uh yeah, so that's I'mtrying to think if there's any
other news that we got.
I got my desktop running again.
That's that's a plus.
Yep.
Um, so that's going.
What's going on in your world,George?

SPEAKER_06 (06:16):
I am um currently doing research for virtual
reality as it pertains totraining specifically for
de-escalation.

SPEAKER_05 (06:26):
Okay.

SPEAKER_06 (06:27):
And I'm I'm very hopeful that the technology will
catch up.
And there's there's ins and outsto it and programming, and it's
it's being written from scratchby one of the local colleges
that's doing it.
That it's part of a Departmentof Justice grant.

SPEAKER_05 (06:42):
Okay.
So what do you mean?
How are we going to use AI forde-escalation?
Is it like scenario-basedtraining?
Right.
Okay.

SPEAKER_06 (06:50):
Right.
So you know the simulator.
Correct.
Uh, if we could make thesimulator more immersive, we
eliminate some of the umbreakdown in training, because
sometimes there's that there'sthat contract of fiction that
has to be overcome.
And I'm stealing that from uhLon Bartell of Vertra.

(07:11):
But the contract of fiction isbasically that you as the
trainee and me as the trainerhave to agree on this contract
of fiction that um you have toagree to suspend your disbelief
about the reality of what'sgoing on because it's just a
screen.
Right.
I have to suspend the disbeliefand the fiction of this is not a

(07:32):
real-world event with real worldconsequence.
So we have to come to thatagreement, and we both have to
have some buy-in trainingworthwhile.
And what we're looking to see isif having a completely
360-degree immersive environmentthat takes your eyes and your
ears and and just completelyimmerses you into a virtual

(07:52):
reality environment, uh, or anaugmented reality environment
for that matter, will that helpyou uh buy that contract of
fiction and get better training?

SPEAKER_05 (08:02):
I gotcha.
And I can tell you, as somebodythat's been messing around with
some VR stuff, I got to playwith some of the axon VR stuff.
And one of the scenes is it kindof takes you through the process
of getting to the moon.
So they show like, you know, thebuildup of the rockets, and then
all of a sudden you're gettingonto the loading dock, you're

(08:24):
getting inside the rocket, therocket takes off, then you're up
on the moon.
Everything is immersive.
You're looking down at theearth.
I can tell you right now, like,if I wasn't standing still, if I
would have been moving around,there's a very good chance I
would have fallen because I'm soimmersed and believe I'm in the
environment that I'm in.

(08:45):
So I see the practicalapplication when it comes to
police training, and I'm justcurious.
We're not that far away from itbeing like so creepy real.

SPEAKER_06 (08:56):
Yeah.
And what I'm finding with withall this stuff that they're
developing at the college isthat it's very hard to replicate
human emotion or to simulate it.
So that and that's probably thebiggest part of any kind of
de-escalation or de-escalationattempts is that you have to you
have to be able to have some youhave to have some emotional

(09:16):
intelligence and you have to beable to I don't like the word
manipulate, but navigatesomeone's emotions to get them
back into thinking.

SPEAKER_05 (09:24):
Right.

SPEAKER_06 (09:25):
Okay.
And that that's kind of hard tokind of hard to program in with
zeros and ones.

SPEAKER_05 (09:30):
Yeah.
Yep.
Banning, have you done anythingwith the virtual training?

SPEAKER_00 (12:29):
I've done a little bit.
Um gosh, a couple of years agoat a Shot Show, there were a few
companies set up out there, andand the problem is they were,
and this has probably been fixedby now, but showing those true
physical indicators that arenonverbal.
And we're sitting there tryingto de-escalate a situation, and
for that, what do you even callit?
The avatar, whatever you'retalking to, uh the person of

(12:52):
interest is um when they wouldtry to show those physical
nonverbal cues that officers aresupposed to pick up on uh before
maybe a physical act happens,uh, their motors were having
problems developing that.
And I I believe that they'vegotten uh by that several or a
lot better now.
Uh however, it was kind of I sayinfancy stage, but two years ago

(13:13):
uh in this technology, that isinfancy stage in a lot of
companies because there's somany growing.
Um, and I know they're gettingbetter and better, but I've got
to mess around with some.
Uh I didn't really get to trainwith it much when I was active.
Uh our agency definitely didn'thave the the funds to send uh
people to do that.
Uh, but when I was at myprevious agency, we got to do a
lot more of that type oftraining.

SPEAKER_05 (13:35):
Hell yeah.
I've had um I've had goodexperience with virtual reality
stuff.
Uh taser training was great,leading the the targets.
They're they've got peoplerunning across and you're
shooting, watching it tells youwhere your hits would have been,
how to adjust.
Everything about it will helpyou improve.
And and they actually show areally good video.

(13:56):
Uh, I just went to to the AxonCEO summit.
And so I got to you do thevirtual training for the Taser
10.
And what I really liked about itis you're in this immersed
environment where you reallydon't even move from one spot,
but you're getting practice,you're getting that haptic
feedback.
You can feel when you're firing,you can hear the taser load up,
and you've got unlimited shots.

(14:18):
And I mean, not virtually youhave unlimited shots, but you
still got your 10 shots, and itshows you when you get the good
connections, when you get thegood hits.
And then they show you a videoof a female officer that had
just went through the training,through the virtual training,
and then a guy attacks, chargesat them, her and her partner
with a knife, and she takes likea 40-foot shot and puts the guy

(14:43):
down as he's in running motion,like gets him, boom.
They move in, get him, theydon't have to shoot him.
And she said it felt like I wasright back in the simulator, it
shot just how I was in thesimulator.
Yeah, so that tells you how farthe training is coming to where
an officer in the field goes,that's just like the training I
just did.
Yeah, that's a good thing.
Yep, for sure.

SPEAKER_06 (15:01):
So I think uh you mentioned haptic.
Once once we once we startdeveloping good interactive AI
programming and learning AI, andit it's it's amazing how quickly
it is learning.
Um, just from watching it andbeing an outsider and not
knowing understanding really howthat works.
It's it's pretty amazing.
Yeah.

(15:21):
But once that all really catchesup, it's gonna be it's gonna be
great.
Ready player one.
Yes, yeah, it's gonna be reallygood.

SPEAKER_05 (15:29):
Yeah, absolutely.
Uh let me let me go over to thecomments.
I know some people are in theremaking some chats.
Uh I miss chocolate or buckeyechocolates.
Yeah, my mom's actually making awhole mess of them right now.
I don't know if that's aMichigan thing, calling them
buckeyes.
It's peanut butter balls withchocolate around them.

SPEAKER_06 (15:48):
It looks like a buckeye.

SPEAKER_05 (15:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (15:50):
It's like a buckeye seed.

SPEAKER_05 (15:51):
Right.
Yeah, we always we call thembuckeyes.
I don't know if that's whateverybody calls them, though.
So I saw somebody, uh, it wasJohn John Seal.
Where did he say Lopez lookslike a guy that would yell at
recruits?
Six foot 90 degree leaning leanarrest.

SPEAKER_06 (16:05):
No, he's he's saying 690, 690.

SPEAKER_05 (16:08):
Oh, 690.
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Okay, I got you.
Yeah, you're right.
No, George was never a yeller.

SPEAKER_06 (16:15):
I could raise my voice.

SPEAKER_05 (16:17):
You could, but you're you were more of a word
assassin through somebody calledme a cerebral assassin.
Cerebral assassin.
That's a good one, yeah.
Yeah, George knew how to get youwhere it hurt the most.
Um, Greg Renee Turner said, Isent my Rangers to VR training
in Colorado, but it helps someof uh oh shit, we're we're going

(16:40):
too fast here.
It helps some of the skill setfor us doing enforcement on
ranches and rural land.
They had now girls that meet ourrequirements three years before
I retired from the department.
This last year, we stoppedsending rangers to that
training, and we just wentahead, just improved our
in-house training in naturalsettings.

(17:02):
We used acting scenario actorsto reenact investigations and
other types of crime sceneinteractions on the winters and
farms.
I think that's supposed to bethe ranches and farms and rural
land.
We had more improved skilltraining in the VR just personal
opinion as a chief of adepartment at that time.
Agreed.
Anytime you can get live actors,that's that's how we roll.

(17:24):
Um, is the live actors too.
Uh want to watch someone fromTCOD, including the mods get
tased, jump over to Discord.
Yeah, make sure you guys joinour Discord.
Um, we do got some merch outthere.
If you guys want to get thatmerch, uh you can head over to
ghostpatch.com, type in two copsone donut.
You can get cool things likethis flex badge here.

(17:47):
Uh it looks like metal, but it'snot.
It's velcro on the back.
Kind of neat.
Put that up in the camera.
Look at that.
Real nice.
Somewhere over there.
I am got it.
There we go.
All right.
Enough shameless plug.

SPEAKER_06 (18:05):
I'll get I'll get tased for a bottle of this.

SPEAKER_05 (18:07):
Yeah.
I'll drink to that.
This stuff is delicious.
I just want to make sureeverybody gets to partake in the
fanciness.

SPEAKER_06 (18:16):
You can pepper spray me, tase me, and then hit me
with a baton for a bottle of it.

SPEAKER_05 (18:22):
All right.
I know how much it costs to uhbeat George's ass.

SPEAKER_06 (18:25):
And probably bolo wrap if you want to.
There we go.
Yeah, we could do that one too.

SPEAKER_05 (18:29):
Shits and giggles.
The giggles and shits.
Uh Andy Fletcher.
Arg late again.
I like a good pirate.
There we go.
Can I drink too?
Yeah, you can drink absolutely,everybody.

SPEAKER_00 (18:41):
Long as you're 21 in whatever state you're in.

SPEAKER_05 (18:44):
Fishing reading it, Eric.
I think he meant to say finishreading it.
He said, jump over to Discord,pay us a buttload of money, we
will make it happen.
Um, yeah, my mods, they all getpaid fat.
It's in imagination money, butin the planet in land of
imagination, they're rich.
They're mega rich.

(19:04):
Yeah, mega rich.
One day.
Get billionaires.
One day.
One day I'll pay Banning, thenI'll pay the mods.
Banning's kind of been around alittle bit longer than them.
Uh, I see one of Robert Brooks'killers got 25 years and 25 to
life.
Which one's Robert Brooks?

SPEAKER_06 (19:25):
I'm not familiar.

SPEAKER_00 (19:26):
I get so many stories sent to me, I can't
remember who I know.

SPEAKER_05 (19:29):
I can't keep up with them all.
Um, spray me with smoke wagon,Bradley Young.
Right?
Oh shit.
18 with parental consent.
Hey, Bill.
Uh drink whatever age you are,don't be a statist.
Hey, listen, I will tell youright now, I was drinking.

(19:51):
I'm I grew up Catholic.
I was drinking very young.

SPEAKER_06 (19:55):
You know what?
I'd have a beer with my dad, youknow, but it was in in Hispanic
culture, it was uh almost a riteof passage with your old man to
have a beer after work.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (20:06):
I mean, you guys think that you're becoming women
at 13 years old and uh crazystuff.

SPEAKER_06 (20:13):
Have you ever been to a Latino birthday party?
I mean, if the kid doesn't haveto be 16 or 15, just a
three-year-old kid.
Everybody's having somebody liketoo crazy.

SPEAKER_05 (20:23):
Yeah, too crazy.
Uh yeah, we make loads.
You should see my pool.
It's three inches longer thanEric's pool.
Too funny.
Um has anyone noticed theparallel between Erica Kirk and
Courtney Love?
No.
Why would I pay attention tothat?

(20:43):
That sounds political.
We don't do politics on here,bro.
Chacho, Chillin von Dylan.
That's a cool name, though.
Uh but all right.
You guys know what this isabout.
We are going to jump over tosome videos.
Um I want to show a quick short,and then we'll get into our

(21:05):
topic and we'll start discussingthat more, and then we'll jump
into some more videos.
So, share screen.
Let's see how this is gonna lookwith our setup here.
Hey, there we go.
That doesn't look bad, does it?
I like it.
I like it too.
Okay.
And I hope you guys can feelbetter in other countries.

(21:26):
Part 26.
Police, fuck the police.
So I'll give you guys thebreakdown of what just happened
there.
Because the the the text, thewhat do you call it?

(21:46):
The CC was blocked.
Um, closed caption was blocked.
You couldn't see it because ofour big heads.
But basically, he's droppingsome NWA uh lyrics saying, Fuck
the police, fuck the police.
And the female cop comes overand is basically like, you
couldn't fuck this police if youwanted to.
Uh just gives them a littleroast, it's nice.

(22:07):
But then she comes over and asksfor ID.
So I I've getting I get pushbackoccasionally from those.
They're like, you know, you'reonly making these videos to make
American cops look good, and weknow American cops screw up too.
You okay.
If that's your argument, that'sa poor argument because I show
American cops screw up all thetime on here.
That's not the reason I do it.

(22:28):
I actually have had a lot ofpeople from other countries,
including Germany, that thatvideo was sent to me from a
German citizen.
They want their police held tohigher standards.
So they want us to show thesevideos.
They want just as much publicopinion brought down on what
they think is bad over there aswhat we do over here.

(22:49):
I think our country does reallywell keeping checks and balances
with our police departments.
So that's the purpose.
Behind why we did it.
And so that's kind of one of thethings I want to get into the
discussion is that cop's ego,possibly, because we don't speak
the language, we don't know whyshe was there.
Yeah.
But possibly her ego took overbecause he's dropping some
fucked police if she understandsEnglish.

SPEAKER_08 (23:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (23:10):
And now comes over and IDs them.
And over there, you don't have achoice.
The cops say, Give me your ID.
Vivant your papers.
Show me your papers.

SPEAKER_00 (23:19):
Yeah.
Exactly.
You have to agree regardless ofwhat people say.
Think of that song.
That song is globally known,even though it's in English.
Everybody knows what they'resaying in that song.

SPEAKER_05 (23:30):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
My NWA tape was labeled GarthBrooks.
Like I had a mixed tape saidGarth Brooks on there, but it
was NWA.
My mom's listening right now.
So that'll be great conversationlater.
What?
What?

(23:50):
So um Mr.
Billfold said the difference isat least we have a
constitutional right to besecure in our papers.
No other country affords thatright.
They can ID anyone they want atany time in Germany.
Yeah.
And that and that's kind of thepoint.
It's not, again, it's not tomake German police like they're
better worse than us.
It's just we have to share theperspective.

(24:12):
We have to understand and talkabout the the luxuries and
freedoms that we have over here.
Um, they're rights.
I don't mean them as luxuriesand freedoms necessarily.
They're rights, but it's reallycool what we do have.
So for people that never travel,like it gets sketchier the
farther away from the US thatyou get.

(24:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (24:33):
And I think people in other countries would call
what we have luxuries.
Yeah.
The luxury to voice youropinion, the luxury to uh
protest.
Yeah, free of the luxury to besecure in your home.
Yeah, until until we see thatviolated too.

SPEAKER_05 (24:50):
Somebody some cop sticks his foot in your doorway.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's always bad news.
But um brand R86, would you havethought German would have
changed that after right?
You would have thought theGermany would have changed that
after World War II thing.
Yeah.
Yeah, you you definitely would.
I mean, we did provide themfreedom.

(25:12):
You think they would have kindof adopted some of the American
culture there?
Absolute power corruptsabsolute.
Uh the fuck the police song cameuh before we had Rodney King
video back when no one believedin police brutality being real,
unless it happened to them.

(25:33):
Yeah, you're right.
You're right.
That's where a lot of these rapgroups came from.
They were trying to share theinjustices that they were
seeing.
Um Flavor Flav with uh PublicEnemy uh was a big one.
Um, what were some of the otherpolitical groups that were out
there?

SPEAKER_06 (25:50):
I can't really you're not a big rap guy back
then, would you?
In that time, I was I wasapparently part of the problem.
I was in the government.
I worked.
I was overseas.

SPEAKER_05 (26:00):
Were you really?
Oh, that's right.
I always forget how old you are.
Thanks, man.
Fuck.
Appreciate that.
Uh so that gets us into ourtopic.
Let's get into our topictraining.
Um, cops, not uh not constantlybeing shown more than we
expected as police officersdoing shitty things and wrong

(26:20):
things and stuff like that.
So, George, let's get into whatmade you send that message to
begin with and what you wereseeing and how you see it.

SPEAKER_06 (26:28):
Okay.
Um I finally got on the Discordand I don't know my way around
it, and I don't know how tonavigate it or anything like
that.

SPEAKER_05 (26:35):
But we got a lot of mods on here right now, so
they'll help you out.

SPEAKER_06 (26:38):
Yeah.
So I just clicking here,clicking there, and I clicked on
one.
It was a shared video, and itwas a video of uh oh what video
was it that we were talkingabout.
Uh basically, this this copdoesn't know what he's doing,
and he's he's in my perspective,going about things the wrong
way, uh almost to the pointwhere he's violating civil

(27:00):
rights.
And I thought to myself, youknow what?
I I just we're our own worstenemies out here.
We're doing a job that is reallydifficult, even under the best
of circumstances, and we'rewe're not doing it well.
So what can we do to startlooking at how to address that?
And that's when I texted you,and you know, I I on the last

(27:22):
podcast I was on, someonementioned on there that they
they appreciated my optimism,but they didn't share it.
Yeah, and that that reallyresonated with me when I watched
that second video because then Ithought, you know what, maybe
I'm just overly optimistic andI'm really missing something
here.
So I got to thinking, and that'swhen I texted you and just
kicking the idea around.
And I'm I'm really before I evensay anything else, I would like

(27:46):
to just make it very clear thatunderstanding things about human
behavior and emotion andreaction time and the science
behind why we do what we do,being able to explain behavior
is not condoning the behavior,it's not supporting the
behavior, it's not excusing thebehavior, it's simply adding a

(28:09):
biological, physiological,psychological aspect to why what
happened happened.
Right.
So it's not when I say that um Iremember part of the discussion
last time, um he's violating youknow the fourth amendment.
Well, and I responded with,well, he's an emotional, he's

(28:30):
forgetting the fourth amendment.
That's not that's not tovalidate that officer forgetting
the fourth amendment, right?
That's just to scientificallyscientifically explain why that
could have happened.
There are other possibilities.
That guy could just not careabout the Fourth Amendment.
It could be that he's a, youknow, he grew up that way and he
just has these things.

(28:50):
I I don't know that.
There's no way to know that.
Yeah.
But what I do know is that humanresponse emotions, they all stay
within a basic human spectrumthat has a finite point on one
end and a finite point on theother.
The very best that we are ableto respond or react to
something, and the very worstway we're able to.
So anytime I try to explain abehavior or a response or a

(29:14):
reaction, that that's not metrying to defend the action.
That's me giving just myperspective from what I've
learned, um, what I believecould have been the initiation
of that.

SPEAKER_05 (29:26):
Yeah.
And I think you gave a goodexample.
I'm gonna read that questionhere in a second, um, Alan.
Uh, but well, leave it up there,dummy.
Uh but I think you brought up agreat example last time when you
you said you got mad and youpunched a wall.
You knew better.
You know not to do it.
You know it's a stupid thing todo, but emotionally you that you

(29:49):
forgot all that.
You didn't care, and you stillpunched the wall.
So kind of the same premise.
You know the Fourth Amendment,but if you get emotionally
hijacked, suddenly you forget.

unknown (30:01):
Yes.

SPEAKER_05 (30:01):
And then when you get that moment of clarity back,
you're like, ah fuck, I knewbetter.

SPEAKER_06 (30:05):
So that's what's that's what really got the
wheels turning.
So what I was thinking is isit's not looking at this, we we
can't deny that there's apattern of events.
There's a pattern, there'sthey're very similar.
Okay, officers don't know theirauthority, citizens do know
their authority, officers getupset because they don't know

(30:26):
their authority, and then theyoverstep their authority and bad
things happen.
Yeah, so that's the basic formatof those those kind of problems.
So, what is causing thatproblem?
Because we can be angry and weshould be angry, but Aristotle
said it's not enough.
Anybody can be angry.
I'm I'm paraphrasing here,Aristotle.
I don't, you know, we had we hada few drinks.

SPEAKER_05 (30:47):
He's been around a while.

SPEAKER_06 (30:48):
Back in the yeah, yeah, back in the day.
We hung out.
But he said it's easy for anyoneto get angry, but you have to be
able to get angry at the righttime for the right reason, at
the right person, with the rightintent.
That not everybody can do.
So what I'm asking here is iscan I be angry about what's
going on and still be uh uheffective in trying to make it

(31:13):
better instead of just sittinghere being angry and pointing
fingers and and screaming at thewind?

SPEAKER_05 (31:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, I want to get to thisquestion here.
Uh, what do you guys think aboutcops using Punisher logos when
the Punisher clearly doesn'tlike cops?
Um I've I've spoken about thisbefore.
Uh I don't believe one that copseven understand the message that
they're putting out when they'reputting the Punisher sticker on
stuff.
Uh I don't condone it.

(31:40):
I think it's stupid.
I think um you it shouldn't berepresenting, especially in
uniform.
If you want to put it on yourcar, your personal car, fucking
go to it.
I mean, I've got Darth Vaderstuff.
My dog's name's Kylo.
I like love the dark side of theforce, but that doesn't
represent how I am in policework, and I completely

(32:01):
understand that I'm into spacewizards.
Uh I like sci-fi, man.
It is what it is.

SPEAKER_08 (32:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (32:07):
Um, so if you like comic books and you're into that
shit and you you like thePunisher style of justice, okay,
that's one thing to be a fan,but you can't mix the two in
police work.
This is a profession, and Ithink it has no business.

SPEAKER_06 (32:19):
What do you think, George?
Uh, I agree 100%.
Punishment denotes uh that Ihave rendered judgment on
whether it was I am the law.
Yeah.
And that's that's not ourbusiness.
Right.
What do you think, Benning?

SPEAKER_05 (32:32):
You've been awfully quiet over there.

SPEAKER_00 (32:35):
No, not thinking about much.
Just trying to read thesecomments too to make sure we're
not missing some of these goodones going up there.

SPEAKER_05 (32:40):
You're you're free to to walk about the cabin, sir.
Go ahead and uh I'll let you ifyou want to get down on some of
that.
This one, right?
Yeah, you're a funny guy.
You're funny.
He's a funny guy.

SPEAKER_06 (32:53):
Looks aren't everything.

SPEAKER_00 (32:54):
Right.
You know, and and my my oldthing with this is we are
starting to see a lot more, andI don't know if it's it's the
everything that we belong to andeverything that's coming in
towards us and and kind of whatit turns in our searches on our
own personal YouTubes nowbecause of all this stuff coming
in, and then it goes to YouTubeor it goes to whatever real on
Instagram or whatever, and ofcourse it's gonna generate

(33:14):
generate more.
And I know law enforcement isnot perfect.
Eric and I never came into thisthinking law enforcement was
perfect.
That's one of the reasons wewanted to build the gap between
the community and lawenforcement itself, because we
know there's a problem.
There's been a problem for it.

SPEAKER_05 (33:28):
Bridge it, not build it.

SPEAKER_00 (33:29):
You want to we want to close the gap, not build the
gap.
We're trying to bridge it.
That's the word that I waslooking for.
I apologize.
Uh yeah.
Uh build build a much smallerconnecting gap to where
everybody kind of understandsmore, is what banning the retard
is trying to say, and I'm notbecause of my voice.
Um anyway, I get sensed up allthe time.

(33:53):
I know Eric does too.
Um, and I know George is isgetting more exposed.
He's been in law enforcement uhyou know longer than Eric and I
both.
Um and he's been in training.
How long have you been intraining, George?

SPEAKER_06 (34:03):
It'll be 15 years in August.

SPEAKER_00 (34:06):
15.
And that's awesome.
And I wish I wish we had morepeople like George and training
across this country.
And I believe a lot of our folksthat are watching would would
agree uh the same.
And I know Eric has also done alot of training.
I've trained in academies aswell.
Uh, we've all seen theseproblems, and we we're not gonna
be the people that come in andand just fix it either.
Um but we can we can talk aboutit, we can identify it.

(34:29):
We also do know, even though weare we're getting all this stuff
sent to us, there are more goodlaw enforcements out there,
obviously more than than whatwe're seeing, what's coming in
in our inboxes.
And it all does come back totraining.
Um I've been to classes to whereI've had what I what I usually
call people that that I thinkthat are that are not learning
very well in training.

(34:50):
I usually call them recruitschmuccatelli.
And that's a Marine Corps thing.
Uh going back to recruitmentschmuccatelli is not doing well
in training.
And you you put in a request forthem to go through a recycle or
maybe go through training again,and that's that's pretty much
the best you can do as aninstructor.
And it's up to the the people atthe top of the academy on if
they go further or not.

(35:10):
And academies are gettingbetter, even in the 21 years
that I was in, are gettingbetter to weed out the problem.
Is it perfect?
No, it's not perfect.
But academies I've seen, just inmy short time, I've seen
academies getting better andbetter and better.
I went to a visit, a certainacademy back in November, and
when I went in, to my surprise,they were talking about the

(35:32):
Constitution.
Out of all the things that couldhave been spoken about, and it
was here in Texas, they weretalking about the Constitution.
So I just stood there in thedoorway and listened a little
bit because they didn't speakabout it much when I came in in
2002.
They just did not.
It was obviously it was in, itwas some of the material was
there, but nobody really got upthere to speak about it.

(35:53):
Um obviously the FourthAmendment, uh, First Amendment,
Second Amendment, that's whatmost cops will kind of juggle
around.
But we really got to get moreintuitive, we got to get more in
depth with it as a countrywhole, in reference to whoever
has a badge on that's out thereuh representing for the people.

SPEAKER_05 (36:08):
Yeah.
Um looking at the comments thatI think the leadership in the
academy staff is so important.
A badass sergeant that handlesthe staff and who's an
instructor is huge.
I agree.
Uh you do have to have you haveto have a good training academy,
but more importantly, I have tobe backed by the upper, the
upper shallant.
Uh the upper shallot.

(36:30):
Uh they have to be backed by theupper uh shallot to um do their
job and do the right trainingand have uh the ability to let
their trainers go to trainingthemselves and expand and
innovate and innovate, yes.
Uh when they come to the tablewith a new idea, supporting it,
figuring out not just shuttingit down, but saying, Okay, I

(36:52):
like what you're doing.
How do I help champion yourcause?
Right.
And they're there to for thefiguring it out.
Um, Rylan Ryan Lands said, I dounderstand when citizens get
upset when pulled over, but man,I wish citizens would learn to
control emotions too.
Just act professional and getthrough it.
It's easy to say when we do itevery day from the cop

(37:15):
perspective.
It's easy to get desensitized totaking somebody's freedom
because when you pull them overfor an offense, you're still
taking their freedom.
You are seizing their person.
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (37:25):
So it's technically an arrest.
It's an arrest you let them.

SPEAKER_05 (37:30):
It is, yeah, it is very easy for cops to get used
to that.
It is not easy for a person thathas never been in contact with
police, it's not easy for aperson that has very limited
contact with police.
Uh, it's just in general, that'swhy they call them your rights,
and all of a sudden your rightsare being stripped for a
temporary moment, and that couldbe longer.

(37:52):
You never know.
We've we've told stories on herebefore, people that got wrapped
up uh way longer than expected.
Um, I saw a cool comment.
Um uh Brandar86, that's the oneI was looking for.
He said, When we look atbehaviors, if we make excuses
and let behavior slide onoccasion, the new recruit seeing
it could misinterpret it asacceptable, agreed.

(38:14):
That's why FTOs are so critical.
Yeah, if you have a shitty FTOwho's negative and cynical about
everything, you're gonna have a45-year veteran rookie cop.
Am I I mean, am I off on that?
That's every time you see a FTOthat is saltier than shit,
cynical about everything, thenext thing you know, that rookie

(38:35):
that just trained with him for amonth, that rookie goes to the
next FTO, and you would thinkhe'd been on the department 40
years.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (38:43):
Yeah.
It drives me insane.
Complaining about everythingalready.
That's what these idiots.
I used to, I would have a nicelittle what I call come to Jesus
meeting with my with my FTOs.
We're getting a little saltyaround the edges.
And I started hearing things onwatching videos and stuff like
that.
We'd have to kind of pull them,pull them aside.

SPEAKER_05 (39:03):
I'm laughing at Keith Devil.
Become a firefighter, problemsolved.
Uh T Pearson92.
Eric, I have some exciting newsto share with you about
training.
Well, share it, brother.
No one's stopping you.
Go ahead.
Um, bearded Tim said, Yeah, butcitizens don't have to act
professional.
That's true.
Yeah, uh, that is what is greatabout having our freedoms.
We don't have to beprofessional.

(39:24):
We don't have to, and I will saythat it does go a long way when
everybody can just keep a civilhead.

SPEAKER_06 (39:31):
So someone mentioned on there, I think it was Mr.
Billfold, um, robot cops.
Right.
So when you get the robot cops,and that's a great idea because
cold, calculating, by the book,black and white, no emotion, uh,
all of those factors, great.
In in concept and in theory, myopinion only, it's great.

(39:51):
But there is a human elementthat would be missing in other
duties that cops do other thanjust traffic enforcement,
arrests, yeah, taking peopleinto custody, riot control, all
of the all of the violent thingsthat that officers have to deal
with.
That would be um a kid at themall who's lost and separated

(40:13):
from his parents walking up tothe robot, and the robot says,
There's no penal code violationhere, move along, citizen.
Yeah.
So you would lose something inthat.
For as much, for as appealing asit sounds with these kind of
problems.
And going back to what we'reactually talking about here, and
and training comes up a lot.

(40:34):
One of the things that I wasthinking of, and this is this is
again just my opinion.
I think as a profession, we tendto sometimes have a knee-jerk
reaction to something that wesee that the public outcries
about.
So we'll have this public outcryabout officers not knowing this
or not knowing that, or usingtoo much force, or not being
held accountable and violatingpeople's rights, whatever it is.

(40:58):
And then what tends to happenthat I've seen in in my time is
that administration, it'ssometimes even even lawmakers
will jump in and start dictatinghow officers have to respond to
one thing or another instead ofaddressing the the the actual

(41:21):
the the actual problem and notjust nailing down the symptoms.
Because you can you can hammerdown the symptoms.
These cops clearly are notgetting enough training on
constitutional authority.
Yeah.
So what do we do every year atour department?
We qualify with our guns.
We do our CT, we do our taser,not the constitution.

(41:43):
We do legislative updates wheresomebody reads off the
PowerPoint and that's it.
Okay, incorporate my my ideaincorporate some scenario
training into authority.
Can you can you can you legallydetain this person?
Is this a civil matter, or doesthis person have every right to

(42:03):
walk away from you?
Right.
And we do that in some places,our department does, in like
patrol procedures, officersurvival, those kind of things.
But I think we could do better.
I think we could way better.
We could get that uhincorporated into even our daily
CT training.
I think instead of justmastering the technique of the
armbar takedown, set thetechnique up to a scenario.

(42:24):
Yes, and that's what we'veincorporated here recently.
That's how we're doing it.
That's how they're running CTnow.
Ah, so what they'll do, whatwhat what I did was I created
all these little flashcards witha mini red man scenario.
Yeah, and you get the recruitsin groups of four.
Yeah.
So you'll have one officer to uhbe the sheet officer, one is the

(42:46):
backup, one is playing roleplaying of the bad guy, and one
is an observer.
One is a member of the public,once they start to get a little
more advanced.
He's an auditor, he's pointinghis phone, he's interrupting,
he's doing whatever.
As they get more, um, as theyget a little bit more experience
with with all of that stuff.
And again, part of the trainingconundrum is that it's not

(43:09):
really simply learning a set ofskills.
Right.
You are taking a mindset ofwhatever that person's character
has been for the past, you know,21, 22, 23, however many years
they are alive, and shifting itto something that's totally
against um basic human survivalinstincts.

SPEAKER_08 (43:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (43:32):
We we're not programmed at birth to run
toward conflict.
And yet we want our officers tobe okay with that.
So we're not programmed at birthto engage in conflict or to
force things, and even andthat's even supported in
society, in in school.
Don't hit your fellowclassmates.

(43:53):
Raise your hand and tell theteacher.
We can't raise our hand and tellthe sergeant that this guy is
doing this, that, or the other.

SPEAKER_04 (43:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (44:00):
So we're we're doing a fundamental mind shift in
academies, and that's where itgets very difficult to focus on
things that are crucial, likethis, like knowing that
authority, because some thingsget lost in, you know, they fall
fall between the the cracks.
Yeah.
And I think we could do a betterjob of this that constitutional

(44:20):
training because I it goes backagain to just education versus
training.
I I told them about the FourthAmendment, they took a test on
the Fourth Amendment, theypassed it, they know the Fourth
Amendment.
Right.
Yeah.
Do they do they?
Yeah, exactly.
What's that thor meme?
Do they do they?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (44:38):
And it's the same.
We I use this a lot.
Um when we leave the academywhere we're at, you were
practicing just about everythingyou were trained in every month.

SPEAKER_06 (44:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (44:49):
Every month.
But you go to you know, BFEdepartment where they've got 20
cops, they're not touching even90% of what they just learned
for years.
Yeah.
Like they may get, you know, aFirst Amendment audit training
and they'll never face anauditor almost their whole
career until it happens.

(45:09):
And if you haven't, it's nodifferent than anything else.
If you don't use it, you loseit.

SPEAKER_06 (45:13):
Or if you have um a First Amendment auditor event
and it goes poorly and it looksbad.

SPEAKER_05 (45:19):
Yeah.
Right.
Um, I I don't want to uh skipover uh what what was his name?
Um T Pearson, he just graduatedthe academy, said he's been
watching us for a year.
Uh, and he said we've we've beeninspiring to him.
So I really appreciate it,brother.
Um, congrats.
Be safe out there, uh, beconstitutionally minded.

(45:43):
Remember what you swore youroath to.
Um, and my best piece of advicethat I give people out there is
that this is front row ticketsto the best show on earth.
It's just keep yourself in thatheadspace that this is this is
uh nothing personal, and you'lldo you'll do just fine.
Um but uh looking at the chats,uh oh, Mike Cucumber dropped two

(46:06):
bucks for us.
He said, I ate too muchhamburger helper elf.

unknown (46:09):
What the fuck?

SPEAKER_05 (46:10):
So weird.
Um Jude Ramsey said, but a robocop doesn't use discretion.
That's true.

SPEAKER_06 (46:17):
It won't give you a break either.

SPEAKER_05 (46:19):
All right.

SPEAKER_06 (46:19):
Um I've given more breaks to people that I could
have arrested or ticketed in inmy time than I have made than
made arrests, then made uhviolent aggressive arrests.

SPEAKER_05 (46:30):
Yes, for sure.
Yep.
Um bearded Tim asks, how manytrainees do we have in the chat?
That's that is a good question.
Um, sorry guys, uh Alan'sscreening all of the I can't
keep up with the chats finally.
You guys are getting too manyfor me, so I'm in the uh the
special tagged chats.
Uh Andy Fletcher said, we shouldnot have to fear some cop having

(46:52):
a bad day, be afraid of what sosome sociopath ego maniac might
do if we exercise our rights.
You're right.
You shouldn't, but you alsoshouldn't have to fear some
psycho dude that walks into achurch with a gun.
You shouldn't have to fear umsome homeless person putting a
needle in the toilet paper rollat a public bathroom.
Like all of these things ofstuff you shouldn't fear, but

(47:15):
this ain't a perfect world.

SPEAKER_06 (47:17):
It's because it's full of humans.

SPEAKER_05 (47:19):
Yeah.
If you get rid of the humans,they're fine.

SPEAKER_06 (47:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (47:22):
Um, you're right.
You shouldn't have to fear that,but you should also have a
realistic expectation thathumans are gonna fail.

SPEAKER_06 (47:31):
And it it goes the other way as well.
A cop shouldn't have to beafraid for his life on a traffic
stop.
Hey, I'm pulling you over to letyou know you're you you forgot a
turn signal, right?
But you're willing to shoot mebefore you even find out, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (47:44):
Yeah, I had to do that.

SPEAKER_06 (47:45):
I shouldn't, I shouldn't have to be, I
shouldn't have to be soculturally ingrained to that
possibility, yeah.
And I have to guide my trainingtowards that possibility.

SPEAKER_05 (47:55):
Right.
I I I agree.
Um that's a good one, Mr.
Bill Fold.
So Mr.
Billfold said you can hirehumans to get out of here and
help little old ladies cross thestreet, but human police have
proven that they cannot policetheir own or police
constitutionally.

SPEAKER_06 (48:10):
So I'd like to say something about that.
Okay, so that one there.
Um I you have never interactedwith me other than this, Mr.
Billfold.
So you can't say that humanpolice have proven.
That's a very broad statement.
That's that's all inclusive,that's every cop, everywhere,
all the time, every time.

(48:31):
And that is simply not true.
And that that lends to theproblems of having the good open
communication on actuallysolving the problem because it
becomes an emotional uh Yeah,it's a polarizing comment.
It's a polarizing comment, butit's also it's valid.
It's valid to be angry.
So again, like Aristotle, it'svalid.

(48:51):
You have a point.
You are right.
You are right.
We have to do better, it has toget better, and and some of it
has to do with training, some ofit has to do with other things,
but being mad about it and justbeing mad about it and
blanketing everybody with itdoesn't move anyone towards any
kind of solution.
Yeah.
So what I was really wanting toaddress was uh with that

(49:12):
comment, is we are taking stepsand seeing for as much as the
profession doesn't like officersbeing held accountable, which is
true, we don't we don't likethat we're getting in trouble
for for these things when 20years ago it was common practice

(49:35):
or whatever.
Um that's what has to be done.
Somebody I read one of thecomments in passing and I didn't
get a chance to address it, butit was um how do I feel about
addressing it in front of therecruits?
So correction and criticism aretwo different things.
So I can, as a trainer, I cancriticize and belittle a recruit

(49:59):
or a trainee and make them feellike crap.
Or I can correct the behaviorand encourage that person to
work better.
I think that's the balance weneed to find with correcting bad
behavior and cops that are outthere.
And I think we need to get tothe source of what it is.
It seems like the pattern thatI've seen is that they just
don't know the constitution aswell as they need to.

(50:21):
Yeah, and and then when they'refronted with that, they get
emotional.
And then once they're emotional,all bets are off.
Ego takes over.

SPEAKER_05 (50:28):
Right.

SPEAKER_06 (50:28):
Yep.
So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (50:30):
Constitution, it it's crazy to me just how and
it's not that I don't think thatthey don't know the
constitution.
I think they know it, theyunderstand it.
But when one, when they getpushed, they they can't they
can't recite it.
And then I think the part thatthey really don't know is the
practical application of whatthey're reading to practicing it

(50:52):
in the field.
That's the difference betweeneducation and training, yes.
And I it's something that I'vebeen trying to help the the
audience understand is theseguys are passing constitutional
tests, I promise you, on that.
They they're passing someconstitutional tests.
They have to, but that doesn'tmean you know it.

(51:14):
And that's where we're reallyscrewing the pooch, I think, in
training.
Um, Mike Cucumber said, Doesofficer discretion violate equal
protections?
Um I I think I think discretionand equal being equal are

(51:34):
different things.
Like, I don't know another wayto say, like, are you saying if
I let you off for going 55 over,but this person I give a ticket
for going 55 over?
There's there's there'sdifferent factors that every cop
uses.
That's why it's calleddiscretion.
We can't account for everything,and there's no way to to balance

(51:55):
any two scenarios the same way.
Benny, what do you got on that?

SPEAKER_00 (52:02):
We we have to be able to have that discretion.
Uh, you know, even on everytraffic stop that we do.
Um, you know, I was taught inthe very beginning, and y'all
correct me if if y'all were oror not in training, but my FTOs
used to tell me before you hiton the once you have the
violation that you have in frontof you in the state of Texas,
you know you're gonna stop thisperson.

(52:24):
You need to have decided in yourmind if you're gonna write them
a ticket or not.
And I solely, I I disagree withthat 100% because I like I treat
everything as a case-by-casebasis.
I don't know how many times I'vestopped somebody for 10 to 15
over, and you get up there, andthat person today has gone
through life.

(52:45):
They've just left the hospital,maybe a loved one just passed
away, and that's where thatdiscretion really uh comes into
play.
There's only some shallow thingson what's called Class C
violations in the state of Texasthat you don't have discretion
on.
And and that having thatdiscretion, I believe, leaves
the humanistic portion of lawenforcement.

(53:07):
Um, just like George, just likeEric, I know Eric's not a big
citation writer either.
I loved having that discretionand giving somebody a warning.
You're not giving them a pass onlife, but sometimes life beats
somebody, and you can detectthat when you come up to the
window.
And being able to have thatdiscretion is paramount in my in

(53:28):
my opinion.

SPEAKER_05 (53:29):
I think equality and fairness are two different
things, too.
I I've used to tell my troops inpatrol, like, if you want me to
do if you want fairness, like,you're not gonna like fair.
Right.
You're not gonna like fair.
Yeah, if you want me to dowhat's fair for the unit, you're

(53:50):
not gonna fucking like that.
So figure out your guys' dramatogether, or I will do what's
fair, and everybody's gonna bemiserable.
Because fairness is gonna meanrotation of calls, fairness is
gonna be, and what I mean likeby that in patrol is you'll get
some guys that are just callshagging fools.
They'll take call after callafter call.
Um, but then you get towards theend of the night, and there's a

(54:11):
call right before you'resupposed to get off.
And those guys that have beenshagging calls all night,
they're looking, they're like,I'm not fucking doing it.
I've been taking calls allnight.
Yeah, and you'll look atsomebody that took one call and
they're like, Well, I'm notdoing it, I just took the last
call.
Like, really?
Yeah, is that how we're gonnaplay this game?
Yeah, okay.
You want fair?
Yeah, we'll do fair because I'mgonna uh start dictating who

(54:34):
does what when.
Like, you don't want that typeof life.
But um, looking at the superchat, Brandar, appreciate you,
brother.
You dropped five bucks.
Said um, when an offers officeris found to violate policy, are
they required to providetraining of the policy they
failed in their shift to theirshift?
Um a lot of times, yes.

(54:57):
More I would say almost everytime, yes, unless it's something
like sensitive in nature, youknow, um, like a sexual
harassment thing.
Um, so um, let me see.
Okay, I was speeding.
Uh I had an officer crying forhelp.
I sped to the scene, I wasrunning code, I went too fast

(55:18):
for conditions, um, and I wentover a curb and I bent my rim.
I was out of it.
This was real early in mycareer.
And so I had to not only gothrough remedial training for
driving, um, I had to give rollcall brief for the next month on

(55:39):
every general order that you canthink of for driving, driving in
a pursuit, and do justeverything, what you have to do
to check your vehicle out.
And I had to do that in front ofeverybody.
That's what the sergeant made medo.

SPEAKER_06 (55:51):
Yeah.
I didn't have to do anythinglike that, but I had a I had a
car accident early on as well.
And I was running code, lightsand siren, clear, quiet street,
everything's dry, it's well lit.
It's like two in the morning.
But there's an officer on the onthe radio screaming she's being
chased around the house on adomestic by a kid with a knife.
So I'm blowing doors.
Right.

(56:12):
And cross traffic is supposed tostop at a stop sign, and I can
see them, lights and siren.
Again, we're I'm blowing doors.
I'm going pretty fast.
And they start creeping into theintersection.
Uh so I I change lanes, and I'mthinking, as long as that guy
keeps moving, I'm good.
I'm gonna miss him.

(56:33):
But he stops.
So when he stops, I yank thewheel to try and out drive the
car and not hit him because allI see is these big pie plate
eyes.
Because it was the choice wasT-bone him or try to get around
him.

SPEAKER_05 (56:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (56:46):
And uh that that car, I never hit the brakes, it
just yawed 200 feet into ahouse.
Damn.
And I parked in in somebody's uhbedroom.
You drove in the house?

SPEAKER_05 (56:58):
Yeah, oh shit.

SPEAKER_06 (57:00):
I I cracked my eye socket and um I got I got pretty
banged up.
No airbag, none of that stuffhappened, none of it.
I mean, just I got I got beat upby that car.
Damn.

SPEAKER_00 (57:09):
And I got a Were you in a were you in a bubble back
Cabrice?

SPEAKER_06 (57:12):
Oh, it was the Crown Vic.
Oh yeah, Crown Vic.
But OG.
Um at any rate, they looked atthat and they said, You were
over the speed.
Yeah, so you get to three dayssuspension.
Nope, you know, yeah.
And I was like, okay, I'm happywith that.

SPEAKER_05 (57:27):
A three-day suspension for crashing into
somebody's house.
Yeah, that was back in the 70s.
1870s.
1870s, yeah.
Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 (57:38):
Uh it sounds like nobody was hurt, and that's
that's the big thing there, butthere's still so much to learn
from that.
How fast can we safely how fastcan we safely go somewhere
without hurting somebody else?
And we're all guilty of it.
And if there's any cop that toldyou that they haven't done that,
they're fucking lying throughthe teeth.

SPEAKER_05 (57:56):
Uh, let's address this comment because this is
ridiculous.
We are more likely to have a badinteraction with a cop than a
victim of to a violent crime.
No, you're not.

SPEAKER_06 (58:05):
How many interactions with cops are you
having?

SPEAKER_05 (58:07):
I know.
I was gonna say uh most peoplethey're lucky to have one or two
interactions with a cop theirwhole life.
Yeah.
Um of an enforcement matter,even.
Right.
You know, um, we're not eventalking about just passing by at
a sporting event or in theairport, but yeah, I I don't buy
that at all.
Uh 350 million calls for servicea year.

(58:28):
That would be it would be justrampantly outrageous, uh, and I
know it's not.
So I don't agree with you onthat one, sir.
Um but the majority of people,wait, but majority of people
don't shoot cops, but cops arestill fearful of it.

SPEAKER_06 (58:45):
Um cops don't shoot people.

SPEAKER_05 (58:47):
Yeah, the majority of cops don't shoot people.
Um, but yeah, of course we'refearful of it.
We have training that puts us inthat mindset of always expecting
the worst so we can be ahead ofthe curve when shit happens
because we're always behind thecurve when when bad stuff
happens.

SPEAKER_06 (59:05):
I'll I'll say this um more cops are shot than
firefighters, right?
So there's a reason we have tobe mindful of that possibility.

SPEAKER_05 (59:16):
Yeah, yeah, that's uh that's very true.
And then when you consider lookat military posturing, how many
countries are invading theUnited States?
Yeah, how many countries areinvading the United States?
I don't see you getting intoyour military for spending the
you know world's budget by 10times about posturing for world

(59:39):
defense when we haven't beenattacked since Japan.

SPEAKER_06 (59:42):
Yeah.
So again, that that kind of goesto what I was talking about at
the very beginning is that whatwe're we're we're starting to
feel, at least I am, like we'rehaving to defend our profession.
And it it shouldn't be that.
Okay, I'm trying to catch myselfhere, I'm trying to practice
what I preach and recognize thatI'm having an emotional response
here.

SPEAKER_05 (01:00:02):
Right.

SPEAKER_06 (01:00:03):
Um, I love being a cop.
I love being a servant.

SPEAKER_05 (01:00:08):
I've always wanted to be fair though, you haven't
been a cop in 15 years.

SPEAKER_06 (01:00:13):
I work a part-time.
Vanny choked on his drink there.
I work a part-time every Fridaynight in a district you're very
familiar with.
You do.
So you know I'm you know I'mkeeping the skills sharp.
Yeah.
At any rate, um, I don't thinkit's helpful for us to feel like
we have to defend.
I'm okay with you saying, hey,look, you're screwing this up.

(01:00:36):
How do you how do you unscrewthis?
Right.
And that's what that's what I'mtrying to get to.
If the answer is training,that's probably the easiest
solution because we incorporatenew training.
We develop new training, weimplement it, and we start
testing it and evaluating it andsee what works and what doesn't,
and yeah, we move forward.
But if it's something cultural,that's something that's gonna be

(01:00:57):
harder to address because that'sthat's yeah, intangible.
Yeah.
And then another thing that, youknow, my wheel started turning
when I saw some of these videos.
I started thinking, whatgenerations of people do we have
out there in policing thesedays?
So I did a little research, andright now, Gen X, my generation,
and um on their way out, and theboomers, yeah, we're we're close

(01:01:19):
to retirement.
We're on our way out.
Yeah, so that's a lot ofexperience that's going away.
So millennials and then Gen Zersare are filling the ranks pretty
quickly.
And just being at the trainingacademy, I see those recruits,
they look like babies coming in.
I know.
They look like little kids.

SPEAKER_05 (01:01:35):
I know.

SPEAKER_06 (01:01:36):
And and a lot of them are coming in with very
little real-world experience.
And then I started thinking of,well, generationally, what is
Gen X known for?
What are the boomers known for?
What are the what is themillennials and the drinking
from the hose?
All of those things, and thatmight be part of it.
I mean, there was a very bigfocus for the millennial

(01:01:56):
generation to be emotionallyhealthy, a solid, good
self-esteem.
You need to know that you'reloved, and I'm gonna be that
kind, and I'm you know, mygirls, they have no doubt at all
that daddy loves them, and youknow, whatever whatever that
needs to whatever that needs tobe done to to prove that to

(01:02:19):
them.
Yeah, they I have no problemwith that.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:21):
I was constantly chasing your approval, even on
the treadmill, and you hated me.
You're not my daughter, though.

SPEAKER_06 (01:02:27):
So and you know, we still I still haven't gotten to
that approval for you.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:31):
I don't know what to say.
Yeah, uh, give you guys a littleum insight on my shenanigans
when I was an instructor withGeorge.
Um I liked to make George feeluncomfortable all the time
because George is a gin.

SPEAKER_08 (01:02:45):
Very good.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:47):
And George doesn't like he doesn't like hugs.
George doesn't like to be toldthat he's doing a really good
job.
George doesn't like anythingpositive towards him, George.
Don't like to run tandem on atreadmill that's built for one
person.

SPEAKER_06 (01:02:58):
So and Eric is very lucky.
Eric is very fortunate that he'sfast that George is getting
older and his reactions areslower.
But all that to say that thatmight be a component of what we
need to look at as well.
I mean, do we need to look atsome emotional intelligence
training for younger officers?
Does it need to become part ofthe backgrounds process?

(01:03:21):
Do we need to move away fromjust your standard issue uh
psychological exam where okay,this guy's a sociopath and this
guy's not, to this guy's showsome narcissistic tendencies, or
this person has never dealt withconflict, or this person has
trauma in their life, or all ofthose things that they're gonna
factor into potential emotionalresponses that could lead to

(01:03:42):
these kind of problems.

SPEAKER_05 (01:03:42):
Brandon, I'm gonna get to your question in a
second.
I want to add a little bit moreto George's thought here.
And one of the things that Ithink we're not considering,
too, that I've seen, I havetalked to officers, young
officers, and they're telling methat yeah, I'm gonna do this for
like five, seven years, and thenI'm gonna move on.
I'm gonna be a lawyer, or I'mgonna go do this, I'm gonna go

(01:04:03):
do that.
I'm like, what in the fu what?
Yeah.
People are not doing this job todo it as a career, they're doing
it as a stepping stone to whatthe fuck ever.
Yeah, I've never even had thatmindset in my life.
I'm looking for a career.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:20):
Yes, and and we've spoken about this at length on
our show.
It's it's me personally, evenworking in small agencies.
I've seen just in the past fiveyears, I've seen over 10 people
complete training, get out oftraining, go through ghosts, and
be there for about six monthsand get one good stern talking
to by uh by an NCO or a friggin'supervisor, and they're done.

(01:04:42):
They're willing to throw thebadge down.
They're like, you're not gonnatalk to me like that.
And they they can just throw allthat training that the police
department that put into them,that they put in individually,
um, on everything that they'vedone to go towards another
career.
And I just boggles my mind to toevery day to see that type of
stuff.
How how can you just do that?

(01:05:03):
How about you fight for what youpushed so much for?
How about you stick it out andtry to make the profession
better uh and your and yoursmall power of what you have as
an officer instead of justthrowing in the flag?
I mean, what's the big blame?
Is it is it is it this?
Is it because we've learned howwe've lost how to to have
communication uh face to face?

(01:05:25):
Uh these kids now are used tojust a text.
Yeah, yeah uh what what where'sthe problem?
I think the phone is a bigproblem.
I think the the smart devicesare a huge problem for our kids
growing up.
They're the whole answer isright there in front of their
face, and they've lost thecommunication and the heart on a
lot of things.
And you try to reintroduce thatin the academy and you start

(01:05:45):
seeing some hurdles.
You start seeing with theseyoung guys and young gals coming
through, it's major hurdlesbecause of upbringing, school,
whatever.
I mean, you can lay a thousanddifferent things in there, but I
think the phone is, you know,I'm not gonna blame anything,
but I think that's part of theproblem, is that we've referred
to that phone for almosteverything.

SPEAKER_05 (01:06:02):
I want to give a shout out over on Instagram to
DickBeaterMemes2.
It's me, it's my handle.
Uh that's what he said onInstagram.
Uh, I just had to call out hisname because it's hilarious.
Um, but okay, I'll get toBrandar's comment.
He said, uh, there is adifference between being
prepared for a threat versustreating everyone like a threat.
Agreed.

(01:06:23):
You don't have to treat peoplelike they're a threat, but you
as a citizen can't get upsetwhen you overstep a line that we
have been trained to keep.
So in that, when you want tocome put your phone directly in
my face, you've encroached intoa bubble that I've been trained

(01:06:44):
to keep.
So it's not that we're treatingyou like a threat.
You have violated a parameterthat we have been trained.
So again, if it's something thatthe majority of the public
doesn't care for, then maybe wehave to start looking at
training.

SPEAKER_06 (01:07:01):
Well, it may also be that you are starting to look
like a threat.
And that's why we're looking atyou like a threat.

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:07:08):
And I know that I know personally that we do some
very specific training in patrolprocedures and officer survival
that's geared towardsconditioning and teaching and
actual putting into practiceofficers and recruits being able
to focus on their task at handthat they were dispatched on and
not engaging with like a crowdof people or someone with a

(01:07:30):
phone who's recording becausethey they they are a potential,
but they are not an actual.
That's not what you're here for.
You're not here for the guywho's recording you, you're here
for the guy who's using a stolencredit card.
Okay.
And and we do that kind ofspecific training.
So the the point of that is thatif I have, let's play it out
this way.
If I have that scenario, and thescenario is very strict on the

(01:07:51):
role player's guidelines.
Role player, you're gonna be thefirst amendment auditor, you're
gonna be the bad guy, you've gota knife in your pocket and
you've used a stolen creditcard, and there's a crowd of
people just making noise,yelling and screaming.
That's basically that scenario.
So if you as the officer go intothat and you start dealing with
that and you recognize that theFirst Amendment auditor is
nothing, auditor is nothing morethan an auditor, and he's

(01:08:12):
keeping things fine, and youaddress it and you say, stay
back there and record, doeverything that you want to do,
just do it from back there forme, please.
And they do it, a good roleplayer does that.
That officer no longer needs toengage with that.
But if my role player, even in ascenario training environment,
breaches that and startscontinuing going past that line,
that officer's been trained tohave to shift focus and address

(01:08:35):
that because now that's gonefrom just being something that
could be a threat to somethingthat is becoming a threat.
Right.
And we we have to walk that lineand we have to be able to make
those decisions in hundreds ofseconds because we live or die
in hundredths of a second.
Yeah, once I I have to gauge onyou whether or not you're the
potential threat with the gun ornot in hundredths of a second.

SPEAKER_05 (01:08:55):
Yeah.
Yep.
Um, Ryan uh Land said, Are youworried that AI videos like Rage
Bait are going to make thingsworse?
Yeah, yeah.
We've already seen videos wherealmost got me.
I'm watching, I'm like, holyshit, why did that cop do that?
And I'm then I really start topay attention.
I'm like, oh, this is fuckingAI.

(01:09:16):
AI almost got me.
So yeah, I do think they'regonna.

SPEAKER_06 (01:09:18):
Well, there was an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie
before the turn of the centurycalled The Running Man, and that
was how they convicted him.
They did some some selectiveediting to some some footage,
and there was an outcry, andthey took him in.

SPEAKER_05 (01:09:30):
Yeah.
Uh Mike said, Eric, can I do aride along with you?
I will crank some NWA in thehood.
Hell yeah, brother.
I'm down.
Um I don't have a patrol car, soI'd have to acquire one.
But yeah, for sure.
If you, I mean, if youlegitimately rode along with me,
you'd be in an office all day,uh, which is boring.

(01:09:52):
But no.
Uh yeah, going through that.
Brandar said, Um, oh, we alreadyread that one.
Yeah.
And again, Brandar, thanks forthe for the super chat, brother.
Appreciate you.
Um Lane Storm said, would youguys consider a fireman running
into a burning building the sameas a cop tackling a man with a
gun, not shooting him?

(01:10:13):
Um, I would consider a personrunning into a burning building
a psycho.

SPEAKER_06 (01:10:18):
Uh well, I can't I can't say that because there
have time there have beenseveral times out on patroller
I've run into burning buildings.
Happy yes, because there werepeople inside and FD's not on
scene yet.

SPEAKER_05 (01:10:29):
I never got that opportunity.
Yeah, they were still I Iseveral I tried to help several
times on car fires that were tooengulfed.
I just I mean, you I don't know,I have heard stories of people
that have forced their way intointense fires.
I've never felt anything asintense as a car fire.

(01:10:50):
I've been around house fires,yeah.
But the intensity of a car fireis that's it's weird.

SPEAKER_06 (01:10:56):
Yeah.
And you know, it's it's a wholedifferent way to get into that
car than you could getting intoa house.
But all of that notwithstanding,I don't think that's a fair
comparison because the fire thatthe fireman is facing doesn't
have intent.
The fire is just doing what firedoes.
Yeah.
And fire is going to obey thelaws of physics and it's going
to go in one direction oranother, or it's contained, or

(01:11:17):
it's not contained, or there'swater on it, or there's not.
There's several differentfactors.
Tackling a man with a gun, thatthere's there's too many
variables with the directionthat that muzzle can go and the
bullet that can come out andwhere it can go.
And let's say I tackle him andhe doesn't shoot me, but in the
process of the tackle, the gunfires and he goes into some

(01:11:38):
little kid's bedroom.
Was it worth it for me to savethat guy's life by tackling him
instead of shooting him?
Is it okay for me to sacrificethat kid's life with that bullet
variable?

SPEAKER_05 (01:11:49):
Because the next thing the public's gonna say is
why didn't you shoot him?
Why didn't you stop him?
Yeah.
Because you didn't ask, now thiskid's dead.

SPEAKER_06 (01:11:56):
Yeah, yeah.
So that that's the best way Icould I could address that
comparison.

SPEAKER_05 (01:11:59):
Yeah.
No, that's a fun question,though.
I like that question.
That was fun.
Um Craig Holcomb.
That's because Eric knows it'shard to write a ticket with an
Air Force crayon.
Um, sir.
Sir, we have the finest of inks.
We don't uh we have ink sticks.
We get the crayon.
And we don't write tickets,they're printed off.
We get crayons in our MREs.
Yes, you do.

(01:12:20):
Um, which your MREs are what?
Rocks?

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:23):
You know, we sand.
We went into this this phonething pretty hard, and I hope
it's not when I held mine upwhen I said this is a problem.
It's not talking about peoplerecording, it's the problem of
people using their phone, thedata, Google searching, etc.
etc.
is what I was referring to uhthat has come back to
communications.
So I don't want people I'mreading some of these comments,

(01:12:45):
and I'm uh I I think people mayhave misunderstood what I had
said.

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:49):
Oh, they they didn't get it.
You meant like just having yourface buried in the phone all the
time and not interacting withpeople.
That's not what I picked up whatyou were putting down, but I
could see the confusion.
Um super chat.
Uh officer walks up to phone,says it's in his face.
Yeah, that's true.
That's that's yeah, again, youget magnetized to to stuff, and

(01:13:13):
that's a fair statement.

SPEAKER_06 (01:13:15):
It is, and that's something that we've
incorporated in our departmentto try and counter as far as
training goes.
And uh, I address it when wouldwhen we get into the knife, when
to the edged weapon.
Yeah, fade the blade.
I remember that from George.
Right.
So, what do we what do we dowhen we we recognize the lethal
threat of an edged weapon?
We draw our gun and we get rightinto it, and we go right into

(01:13:36):
them yelling, drop the knife,drop the knife, drop the knife.
Yeah, so you get magnetized tothe danger.
And I think that's what it is,is that a uh threat perception.
And again, this isn't this isn'tcondoning that behavior, it is
incorrect behavior.
An officer should not walk up tosomeone who's recording because
they're recording that and thensay, You have that phone in my
face.
They're the ones that close thedistance.
And I get that.

(01:13:57):
And and just um if it makes youfeel any better, that is being
addressed in our our department.
It has been for several years.
Um since I've been up there intraining.
So for the last 15 now, yeah.
I say, what's more importantsometimes?
Don't get shot or stop thatthreat.
Sometimes the more importantthing is to not get shot.
Don't put yourself in thesituation where you have to

(01:14:17):
address it as a threat if ithasn't become a threat yet.
Yep.

SPEAKER_05 (01:14:22):
Fair enough.
Um, just did striking in theacademy.
A lot of people got his in themouth for the first time in
their life today.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's the whole point.
That's one of the points of itis learning how to take a hit,
learning that you can get hit.
Um, George Lopez made fun of mybig head in the academy.

(01:14:44):
Absolutely love the man.
Thank you, Lopez, for kicking myass and making me chase the
gator like a damn uh berserker,Lopez, for president.
Yeah.
Um, to be fair, I know Mace, anduh you do have a big ass head,
brother.
Sorry.
He wears like a size nine cowboyhat.

(01:15:06):
So uh let me see, get rid ofsome of these comments we've
already read.
Uh Perry Lemmley said most ofthe kids going to the academy
don't know what it is to take apunch, let alone get their ass
chewed out.
Yeah, that's true.
You can't really chew their assanymore, can you, George?

SPEAKER_06 (01:15:29):
I'm you're not really an ass chewer.
You know what?
I can if it's egregious enough.
Yeah.
And and if I really care aboutthat person.
I mean, I I'm I'm not gonnaemotionally invest to the point
where I'm ass chewing.
Right.
If I if I don't legitimatelycare about that person.

SPEAKER_05 (01:15:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:15:47):
Um, so when I when I do chew an ass, it's because I
care about you and you didsomething really wrong.

SPEAKER_05 (01:15:53):
Yeah, it's that father disappointment thing.
That's probably it.
Yeah, yeah.
Mr.
Bill Fold said, I've never seenan auditor shove a camera in a
cop's face, and I have seenthousands and thousands of
videos, and I've seen copsapproach a cameraman and then
claim it was shoved in the face.
Yeah, you're you're preaching tothe choir because that's one of
the things that we get pissedoff about.

(01:16:13):
On this, it is single-handedlyprobably the most common thing
that has dropped my opinion thatcops 99.9% of cops are always
out there doing the right thing.
So I have a theory on that.

SPEAKER_06 (01:16:25):
And it's a training theory.
Why why do we do what we do?
Okay, it's clear, you'reabsolutely right.
You're we we do close distancewith people who could
potentially become a threat whenthey're not initially a threat.
Why do we do that?
That's all we need to get to.
I think, my opinion, just fromwhat I've seen, I think that
when we do this foundationalmindset switch between civilian

(01:16:48):
to law enforcement officer, weingrain in people to meet
conflict where it is.
You go and solve that problem.
You're the problem solver,you're the guy, you're the gal,
you're the person with theauthority.
It's your job to make fast,decisive, correct decisions in
the interest of the public, thecommunity that you're serving.

(01:17:08):
Yeah.
So you you have to do something.
So the minute you detect thatsomething is outside of your
control, you've been trained, Iwould dare say indoctrinated in
a mind in a mindset way that'sdeeper than just any conscious
thought to go and address it.
Right.
And I think we do that in frontin with cars.

(01:17:31):
We have this idea in front ofvehicles.
We get in front of cars becauseif you were on foot and I needed
to stop you from leaving, whatwould I do?
I'd step in front of you.
If you were if you get in yourcar and you start to leave, how
am I gonna stop that car?
I'm gonna believe in theauthority of my badge and my
uniform and think that you'regonna be a reasonable person and
stop when I put myself in frontof your car.
Which is dumb.
That's why we do that.

(01:17:51):
Don't do that.
Why do I read why do we reachinto cars when the person is
passed out in the McDonald'sdrive-thru to try and put her
in?
We we know what's gonna happen.
He's gonna wake up right whenyou're in his face and he's
gonna punch it, and you're gonnabe getting dragged along and
you're gonna have to dosomething.

SPEAKER_05 (01:18:06):
That's why you do the front to back, maybe block a
mirror.
Yeah, yeah.
So positive pressure.

SPEAKER_06 (01:18:12):
So I'm I'm with you, Mr.
Billfold.
Yeah, but the the real questionis what can we do to keep that
from happening?

SPEAKER_05 (01:18:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:18:19):
Well, how do we train to prevent those kinds of
things?

SPEAKER_05 (01:18:22):
Yeah, and I think it's one of those things that
experience is probably thebetter trainer it is, but do we
have time to provide all thatexperience?

SPEAKER_06 (01:18:30):
Yeah, especially when all your Gen Xers and
boomers are retired.

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:34):
Yep.
I think the first thing thatshould be issued, uh, that every
cop in America should do is haveto watch our show every week.
I think that's gonna make them,I think that's gonna make them
better in a whole well.

SPEAKER_05 (01:18:47):
We'll find out.
We got some uh we got somepeople that apparently have been
watching us for a while nowjoining academies and whatnot.
Um, I like this one here.
Uh Lane Stormont said, untiljudges, prosecutors, and lawyers
in general change their behaviorand start treating everybody the
same and being consistent in theway things are dealt with,
nothing will change.

(01:19:08):
Um I again, the hard part whenit comes to making a judgment,
when it comes to prosecuting acase, when it comes to accepting
a case, no two things are everthe same.
You could have two robbery caseswhere one guy robbed a 7-Eleven
on the corner first in Maine onfive days ago, and then you get

(01:19:32):
two days later, another guyrobbed the same 7-Eleven on the
corner first in Maine, and thosecases are gonna be completely
different, and the factors aregonna be completely different.
There's you know, the guy thatum did it the first day, you're
gonna find out it's the firsttime he's ever robbed anything,
it's the first crime he's evercommitted, and he's gonna get a
judgment.

(01:19:53):
Might be really light.
Who knows?
Maybe he tried to rob it with abit uh a banana, and then the
next guy, he's a hardenedcriminal, and he's robbed a
million places a bunch of times,and this is the final straw, and
he gets life, and you're like,What the fuck?
They both did the same thing.
Well, you can't judge them boththe same, so it just depends.
But I'm with you.

(01:20:13):
I I really wish the way to startfixing the judges and and stuff
like that is uh body cameras.
I think that they should have toshow what they're doing as well.

SPEAKER_06 (01:20:23):
I I think also we can take a step further and go
back to the lawmakers.
I mean, if it's not a law, wecan't enforce it.
So the minute you make somethinga law that's on the books, you
give people like us authority toenforce it.
So if you think a law is unjust,go to the source and you know
who right?

(01:20:45):
Who makes who makes the lawsthat we are tasked with
enforcing?
Who makes the laws that judgesare you know tasked with
determining?
So you're so your your problemis inherently, the more we dig
into it, the problem isinherently bigger than just
yeah, asshole cops.

SPEAKER_05 (01:21:02):
For sure.
Yeah, but we're the face of it,so we get the brunt of it.

SPEAKER_06 (01:21:06):
That's okay.
Uh I'm I'm used to gettingpunched in the face.

SPEAKER_05 (01:21:09):
May said he still caught that goddamn gear, by the
way.
Um, somebody dropped Dan droppeduh super chat for us.
Appreciate you, brother.
Thank you very much.
All that those proceeds godirectly into the show, guys.
They promise you.
Uh they don't go to my Bentleyout in the driveway.

SPEAKER_06 (01:21:28):
That was your Bentley?

SPEAKER_05 (01:21:29):
That was my Bentley, yeah.
Yeah, I get that from theFacebook money.
Just kidding, guys.

SPEAKER_06 (01:21:34):
A lot more chrome than I can appreciate, though.
If that's your thing.

SPEAKER_05 (01:21:38):
Can we please institute crayons?

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:41):
Hey, what's that last comment on there from my
cucumber?
I'm just trying to.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 (01:21:45):
I'm I'm not watching general chat, I'm only watching
the ones that Alan sends over tothe starred comments.
Um that one there.
Uh allow recordings in thecourtroom, banning it is
unconstitutional.
I I'm with you.
That's what I said.
They should be recording thisstuff.
Um, and and just like in policevideos, redact the information

(01:22:05):
that doesn't need to be shared.
Yeah.
I mean, we've gotten into um wehave gotten into this topic
before on body cameras.
I don't think body camerasshould be allowed to be muted at
all.
I I think that record everythingand then you have a redaction
team.
This is the this is thepainstake of having a body cam.

(01:22:29):
You guys wanted us to have abody cam.
I'm with you.
I feel naked without one.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 (01:22:33):
We need it.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 (01:22:35):
Glad we have body cameras.
Correct.
However, if we are going to pushfor something that we think is
very good for law enforcement,we have to accept the shit side
of it.
Shit side of it is you're gonnahave to hire more people or
something to do the redactionparts because there's stuff that
you just can't have people'sprivate information.
Things like that.

(01:22:55):
Um, sensitive things, you know.
There's times you go into ahouse and there's you know
little kids running around andjust in nothing, and having
they've been in their own filthfor the last you know four
weeks, and like there's shitthat you see that you can't have
on camera.
So a redaction team, AI is rightaround the corner, by the way,
where redaction is gonna besuper simple.
It's gonna it's gonna redact iton the fly.

(01:23:18):
So um it's right there.
So cops just hold your horses.
Things are things things arecoming.

SPEAKER_06 (01:23:25):
Um sorry.
So uh you you mentioned AI, andjust real quick, I noticed one
of the questions several minutesback was about um if only cops
had access to finding out theconstitutionality or the penal
code laws or whatever, andthat's that's in the works.
That's we're making it asdummy-proof as possible.
Axon already has thosealgorithms put into some of

(01:23:48):
their cameras.
The body cameras, yeah.
So for translation purposes, andI didn't know about the
redaction stuff, but yeah, thatthe technology is gonna really
go a long way towards yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:23:59):
So I just got back from the summit, guys.
Um and one of the things thebody camera is going to be able
to do is you will be able toindoctrinate your department's
policies, general orders, um,state law, and you're gonna be
able to ask it clarifyingquestions.
Like, hey, this is what I'vegot.
Give it what you got, and it'sgoing to tell you, all right,

(01:24:20):
well, this is what your generalorder state, this is what the
law states.
Yeah.
So, and that's all gonna berecorded.
So now you're going to gettrained more often because the
AI is instructing you.
Meanwhile, it's not you doingthe research where you're
getting tied up doing all thatstuff.
You can just hands free, youknow, tell the camera what it is

(01:24:40):
you're looking for.
And now you got a record ofwhere your mind was at, yeah,
what you were thinking of andtracking through, and it's gonna
help you improve.
Yeah, so policing is gettingbetter.
There's a lot of cool ass shitcoming down the pipe.
Um, Axon, I'm very, veryimpressed with how much they
understand the need to improvethe profession, not just for the

(01:25:01):
cops, but for everybody.
Yeah, like it was reallyimpressive.
It was really eye-opening howmuch they're looking out for
everybody.
That's what I was reallyimpressed with.
And they're not a sponsor, guys,by any means.
They're not a sponsor.
So um don't think I'm justkissing ass.
Uh, I I was very impressed.
I was very, very impressed.
Uh it was cool.

SPEAKER_06 (01:25:21):
I got to go to ExxonWink this year, too.

SPEAKER_05 (01:25:23):
Oh, did you?
Yeah.
Oh, nice.
Hell yeah.

unknown (01:25:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:25:26):
And somebody's mentioning drones.
Um drones are the wave of thefuture as well.
Yeah, drones are my drones, AI,and virtual reality.

SPEAKER_05 (01:25:33):
I'm in I'm in the drone mode right now, guys.
I'm doing uh helping out withcreating a DFR program, drone
first responder program.
Drones are going to change thegame even more.
Um see that one from just abearded Tim.

SPEAKER_06 (01:25:45):
Where is it at?
Uh right there.

SPEAKER_05 (01:25:47):
There we go.
Uh okay.
Uh, this is from Tim.
He said the big questioneveryone has asked and commented
at one time.
Another top cop guest, how manycops has George arrested?
Oh, yeah, that is.

SPEAKER_06 (01:25:58):
I have I have never had to arrest a cop, but I have
cited some.

unknown (01:26:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:26:05):
I've worked, you know, my only patrol experience
was um rural Illinois, and thetickets I wrote there for were
for driving the harvester intown on city, on on village, on
village roadways.

SPEAKER_05 (01:26:20):
That's that's that's banning style policing right
there.

SPEAKER_06 (01:26:23):
And um, but I've I've cited several, yeah.
But my only other patrolexperience is east side
midnights.
So rocking and rolling andshagging calls and shootings,
fights, stabbings, all of thosethings.
I didn't really have a whole lotof time to um go hunting for
DWIs.

SPEAKER_05 (01:26:40):
Yeah, I didn't run into cops over there or anything
like that.
Yeah.
I I've arrested four.
Um and uh I'm in the processright now of hunting one.

SPEAKER_06 (01:26:49):
So now I have been asked to I have been approached
about testimony as far as use offorce stuff, and I've I've been
asked by both defense andprosecution side.
So it it hasn't happened yet,but with use of force, um there
have been times I've had to givethe no, he's screwed up.
Yeah, that's testified againstthe cop, yeah.

(01:27:10):
Yeah, but if if you put me onthe stand, this is what's gonna
happen.

SPEAKER_05 (01:27:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Is what it is.
Uh, I don't know if Dan droppedmore super chats or if this is
the original one.
Dan, uh, I'm just gonna saythank you again.
Um, we appreciate that, brother.
Um, and then uh I want to get toRyan's question here.
I didn't I was looking for thedrone.
Are your departments usingdrones and in what capacity?
Any future uses you seehappening?

(01:27:34):
So, okay, now you guys are gonnaget dog off leash because this
is my bag, baby.
Um, so I actually got to talk tothe owner of Sky Dio.
His name's Adam.
I just cannot remember his lastname.
Uh, micro drones are coming.
So basically, drones that can belaunched from the body of the
officer.
So imagine you get out to thecar, you make contact on a
traffic stop, the car decides torun.

(01:27:56):
Drone can be launched, go off.
Uh, it can follow the carbecause the micro drones are
super fast.
I don't know if you've seen themgo like they can keep up with uh
F1 cars.

SPEAKER_06 (01:28:05):
Wow.

SPEAKER_05 (01:28:06):
Um, so they can do that.
I suggested the idea of havingthem magnetized to a vehicle so
they could just land on the car.
So hopefully, if that happens,remember your boy just said it
out loud.
So that's my idea.
I want I want to cut back Skyo.
Um, and then uh so the microdrones thing, um, fixed-wing

(01:28:27):
drones that can stay up in theair for hours versus 20, 40
minutes, like what theycurrently are.
Drones that can haul um loads ofwhatever um medical supplies or
uh one that I saw was a uh riverrescue where they dropped uh
flotation device down to them.
Um they've got drones that areputting out fires, brush fires

(01:28:50):
before they can start awildfire.
Uh drones that go out and spotfires.
Um that's another thing thatthey're doing with them.
Uh drones that protect schools,drones that can shoot tasers,
drones um that can shoot uh theBola wrap system.

SPEAKER_06 (01:29:04):
Well, they're gonna have to modify the tasers.

SPEAKER_05 (01:29:06):
What do you mean?

SPEAKER_06 (01:29:07):
The tasers.

SPEAKER_00 (01:29:08):
And we're just we're just talking about some of the
law enforcement applications onthat.
I mean, you wouldn't believewhat the power companies are
using these drones for, checkinglines, X-ray and lines.
What you know, back in 2002,there was a lot of jobs here in
North Texas for people withcommercial pilots that had
what's called a Cessna 172 orcommercial pilots license, and
they could attach a X-ray to theleft wing and ride on these high

(01:29:29):
power lines for miles and milesand get that data back to Encore
or whatever power country or uhcompany that's employed you to
do it.
Now you take that cost away whenyou get drones to do it.
Is it eliminating jobs?
Yes, but is it creating more?
Absolutely.
I mean, what the technology onthese drones is blows your mind
on what they can do now.

SPEAKER_05 (01:29:47):
What were you saying about tasers and drones?

SPEAKER_06 (01:29:49):
The tasers still considered a firearm.
And you can't attach a firearmto the drone.
So in the stage, so what I wasthat that was that was one of
the things they were talkingabout at Axon Week this year.
Yes.
Was they're trying to get aworkaround for that.

SPEAKER_05 (01:30:03):
I think they found it.

SPEAKER_06 (01:30:04):
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (01:30:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:30:05):
Very good.

SPEAKER_03 (01:30:06):
So yeah, I think they found it.
Um what Alan?
It is still in court.
Um, it is coming.
Uh, there's a big fight withAxon, but the thing I was gonna
mention, there's some commentsbeing made.
Um, I've been pretty close toAxon this year, and everybody
needs to understand that theowner of Axon, his whole intent

(01:30:27):
was to bring tasers to theenvironment of law enforcement
to do away with guns.
Yeah, everything in hismentality and mindset is
de-escalation and to eliminategun deaths.
Yep.

SPEAKER_05 (01:30:41):
He wanted to end gun deaths.
Yep, that's his move.

SPEAKER_03 (01:30:43):
Everything he's putting in motion is to keep law
enforcement accountable and tosupport what we do.
So I I'm very pleased with hisdirection.
So that's all, and then as faras the firearm part of the new
taser, it is supposed to be seenin legislation in the next
quarter.
So we will uh stay tuned to thatmessage.

(01:31:06):
Yeah, but they are actuallyshooting the taser currently in
other countries off of drones.

SPEAKER_05 (01:31:14):
Yeah, yep, I know.

SPEAKER_06 (01:31:16):
Well, they're dropping grenades off of drones,
and yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:31:20):
Um, to make to make sure you're good.
So I think society relies toomuch on police.
Honestly, what a cop can do, Ican do myself.
Only problem is I would getarrested for doing things cops
do every day.
I will say that there are thereare too many things that cops
are responsible for going to.

unknown (01:31:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:31:39):
I think we one, we've got too many laws, and
two, we've got too many thingsthat cops are responsible for
going to.
And that is oftentimes it's thecall that you're like, why was a
cop even out here?
That's the ones we get introuble on because we had no
business being out there.
So I'm with you.
I think that's a good that's agood statement.

(01:31:59):
Um, let me keep going here.
Uh, let me get that out of here.
No crayons.
Da da da da da da.
We already did the dronesquestion.
Uh, allowing recording in theyeah, we already covered that
one.
Um Brandar said, a member for 11months, Baker's Dungeon message.
What are your thoughts on25-foot law in Florida now?

(01:32:22):
Stupid.
Why would you put a definednumber on there for one?
Wait, you cannot put a hardenednumber on a situation because
everything's different.

SPEAKER_06 (01:32:34):
What is this referring to?

SPEAKER_05 (01:32:36):
It's the um the uh the Halo law.
So if you're filming me and Itell you to get back, you have
to get 25 feet back.
That's the that that's the law.
Now, how we have it in Texas,it's uh where we like it has to
be reasonable, right?

(01:32:56):
But it's uh whatever marker, wehave to we have to be specific
with a static item.
Hey, I need you to get back tothe curb line.
Right.
And point to it and tell themand show them, hey, I need you
to get back to the curb line.
Please don't go past curb lineum until my investigation is
done.

SPEAKER_06 (01:33:11):
And by the way, that's how we train the recruits
too.
We we specifically use that typeof scenario to train that
specific authority, right?
Yeah, yeah.
So I don't like it.

SPEAKER_05 (01:33:22):
In Texas, we we don't go by a specific number
because the the scene may be.
This is another thing that is avery bad misconception, is that
we have to have crime tape onfor it to be a crime scene or or
an investigative scene orwhatever it is.
That's not true, guys.
It's it's whatever we figure outthat it is at the time.

(01:33:43):
Now that can always be shrunk,but we always tell cops to
overestimate what your crimescene is because inevitably
you're gonna get it wrong.

SPEAKER_00 (01:33:52):
So evidence collection is one of the main
things on there from shells toDNA.
There's so much that peopledon't understand on that.
It's not being a jerk, being anass saying you have to get back
here.
Is there cops out there likethat?
Yes.
But when you're trying to doevidence saving and you want to
freaking cast that line out,it's so the bad person on

(01:34:13):
whatever occurred here cantruly, you know, when when they
when they go to print, there's areason why we do everything that
we do.
We want to we want to preserveeverything so when that goes to
trial.
Period.

SPEAKER_05 (01:34:23):
And I think one of the good arguments, or one of
the arguments that people willmake, is like, you know, when
you're filming a traffic stop,like that's fine.
I obviously I don't want youright behind me.
You can't be right up on mewhile, well, I'm on a public
sidewalk.
Well, no, because now I gottahave divided attention and all
that stuff.
It is an officer safety issue.
How do we know it's an officersafety issue?

(01:34:44):
One of my favorite videos iswhere the cops on a traffic
stop, a dude just jumps out ofhis car with a fucking hatchet.
Remember that one?

SPEAKER_04 (01:34:51):
I was like, holy shit.
Yeah, and then there's anotherone where the dude's on the
traffic stop and he just getsstabbed in the face.
That was another one.

SPEAKER_06 (01:35:01):
Yep.

SPEAKER_04 (01:35:01):
And that guy ran out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_05 (01:35:04):
So and it's not that we have to, it's not that those
outliers, because they'reoutliers, it doesn't happen that
often, but at the same time,it'd be no different than if
you're standing there and I juststart standing behind you and
you're like, why the why thefuck's this person behind me?
You're gonna keep looking, it'sgonna divide your attention.
It becomes a safety issuebecause uh of the nature of the

(01:35:27):
job of law enforcement.
It it's it's not the samebecause you're you know the ice
cream man, you know, andsomebody stands behind you.
So I I guess that's that'sthat's all.
Um Tim.
Wait, I didn't see a Bentley inthe driveway.
My sheriff's office said theywould arrest me if I recorded in

(01:35:49):
the courtroom.
I would listen to that.
Don't fuck with the courtroom.
Listen, guys, you can press yourluck with cops.
Do that all day long.
Please don't test the judge.
Please, that's my best advice Ican give you.
Don't fuck with a judge.
You may be right, but I I thatis not a fight you want.

(01:36:09):
I promise you, don't do that.
I I mean, unless you are justthe most supreme confident in
your knowledge, I won't fuckwith a judge.
I tell you that right now.
I'm not screwing with a judge.
And this is a problem.
Judges have ultimate authority,and they go more unchecked than
anybody.
Yeah.
Because a judge could not likethe way you looked.

(01:36:31):
He could not like what you'rewearing, he could not like the
way you're standing.
Get out of my courtroom.
I'm holding you in contempt.

SPEAKER_06 (01:36:37):
Yep.

SPEAKER_05 (01:36:38):
And what the fuck are you gonna do?
Nothing.

SPEAKER_06 (01:36:41):
You're gonna leave the court.

SPEAKER_05 (01:36:42):
And then is that judge ever, he's not gonna lose
his judgmanship?
I don't know what you call it.
Bench.
Yeah, he's not gonna lose hisbench.
He's gonna he's gonna haveanother judge and go be like,
what did you do?
You're an idiot.
Like, all right.
And they're gonna go right backto doing their job.
So um statistics on tasers arepretty crazy.

(01:37:03):
I'll post a short video about iton Discord.
I will say statistics are notquite there yet with the newest
taser, but all statistics on thenewest taser, the 10 shot,
single shot, are phenomenal.
It's showing in upwards of the90 percentile for effectiveness.

(01:37:23):
All right, that's amazing.
Is that because of the theprobes?
Because of the single shot andthe probes.
Um, officers are not having to,you know, just get it angled the
right way, and distance doesn'tmake a difference anymore.
And so, yeah, it's pretty cool.
Um Ben Adkins said on LinkedIn,he said, Where I live, uh where

(01:37:44):
I live, they went live with thefirst responder drones about a
week ago.
They sit on top of a PD buildingand head out when needed for
first eyes on.
Yes.
So that I I guess I never reallygot into that.
Um so what a DFR program is, adrone first responder program,
is having drones that can belaunched remotely from the
real-time crime center.

(01:38:05):
Um, SkyDio has drones out now.
I think they're called the R10s,but they officers in patrol cars
can have them in their patrolcar, and then when they stop,
they can get them out, turn themon, and then the real-time crime
center takes them over and theycan launch them from from
wherever.
Yeah, that's the cool part.
Um things to know for myofficers out there wondering

(01:38:26):
about that, your ceiling cap'sgonna be 200 feet.
If you don't have radar around,it's gonna be 200 feet.
If you do have radar, your cap'smore than likely 400 feet.
So just keep that in mind.
If you do the patrol um mount orthe patrol launched drones
versus having, like what Ben wassaying, where they launch from a

(01:38:47):
building.

SPEAKER_00 (01:38:47):
It's all gonna be dependent on Class B airspace.

SPEAKER_05 (01:38:50):
Yeah, so when they have that that launch from a
building, more than likelythere's gonna be a radar
accompanied with that, and theradar is going to allow you to
go to a 400-foot ceiling.
So things to know.

SPEAKER_06 (01:39:01):
There's a good one from Mike Cucumber there.

SPEAKER_05 (01:39:03):
Uh let me get rid of this one.
Mike said there is no lawstating you must exit your
vehicle when asked by lawenforcement.
There is case law, Pennsylvaniav.
Mims.
Uh, and there's further caselaw, Marilyn v.
Wilson, that says you do have toget out of your car on a lawful
traffic stop when asked by lawenforcement.

(01:39:25):
Now, that law was originallydesigned based on officer
safety.
However, the courts got LucyGoosey and uh the lower circuits
basically just allowed cops toask anybody out of the car.
I think it was based on officersafety.
So, my advice to any cop that'sgoing to ask somebody out of the

(01:39:47):
vehicle, you better be able toarticulate an officer safety
issue of why you wanted them outof the car.
If you don't do it, you'reabusing the spirit of what that
law was made and you're doing itwrong.
And you're gonna get it takenaway.
That's gonna be what's gonnahappen.
You you abuse the law so bad yougotta get it taken away.
I was trained to have anarticulable reason why I'm

(01:40:08):
asking them out of the vehicle.

SPEAKER_06 (01:40:09):
Yeah, and if and if you're doing that, then that's
it.

SPEAKER_05 (01:40:12):
Yeah, that's covered.
Then you're covered.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So um I I disagree with you.
There is there is a law, there'scase law.
Um super chat from MasonLawrence.
Five dollars.
Thank you, brother.
Wait a second.
I know what Mason makes, he'sout there making that big money.
He said, uh, the minimumdistance to stay away from the

(01:40:34):
circumference of Lawrence's bighead, what Lok Lopez called
Sputnik.
By the way, my head isn't on theonly large part of my body.
Ew.
Uh ew, you just x-rated my show,you grossy.

SPEAKER_00 (01:40:48):
Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna get a strike.

SPEAKER_06 (01:40:52):
We're gonna get a strike.
Um sputnik because it was largeand slightly round.

SPEAKER_05 (01:40:57):
Like a potato, right?

SPEAKER_06 (01:40:59):
Aye.

SPEAKER_05 (01:41:01):
Uh let's see here.
Mike said, there's no lawstating you must exit your
vehicle when asked.
I already read that one.
Get out of here.
Get out of here.
Oh, somebody gifted 10memberships.
Where'd that go?
Harrison.
Harrison.
Go figure.
Thank you, Harrison.
You the man.
Harrison delivering 10memberships out there.
Um, no police iron man suit.

(01:41:23):
Nope, no police iron man suit.
Not yet.
Yet.
Yet.
Yeah.
Um, AI is only as good as thestuff it's programmed to learn.
I can't argue that.
Um, I did learn from Rick Smith,the owner of Axon, um his
favorite AIs are Eve, then Grok,and then Chat GPT.

(01:41:46):
So he actually has conversationswith Grok on the way to work.
It was kind of cool to hearthat.
Um, Harrison Brock said, twocops went on AI gets more stuff
wrong than right.
Speaking as a software engineerwho works on this stuff daily.
Uh, I think that depends, sir,because you're asking really
smart questions.
There's a difference.

(01:42:06):
Us kinds, we ask really dumbquestions.

SPEAKER_06 (01:42:09):
Well, I I to that point, I think the hardest thing
to replicate or program in isgoing to be human emotion.
So when we're looking at thingslike de-escalation or a human
interaction, yeah, that's gonnabe very, very hard.
And the I um I don't think theAR is AI is there yet.
I agree.
But uh it's getting better byleaps and bounds.

SPEAKER_05 (01:42:31):
Yeah.
Um, thank you, Joanne Hutt.
Uh she said great, great podcastconversation.
Gonna get to work.
Keep safe all the way up from upnorth in Canada.

SPEAKER_06 (01:42:41):
Stay warm, eh?

SPEAKER_05 (01:42:41):
Stay warm, eh?
Enjoy some uh poutine and uh getthat maple syrup, eh?
Uh tell the moose I said sell atall.
You're hosed.
Um uh Rylan uh said, do policedrones need to deal with the FAA
when using them, or as long asthey're not within pass for

(01:43:03):
planes?
Uh so you have a you have awaiver.
Um you got to get your your part107 and then your your waiver
with the FAA to fly in basicallyanywhere uh up to 400 feet.
Um there's certain things thatyou have to avoid.
Yes, you do have to deal withthe FAA um pretty regularly on

(01:43:24):
that.
Uh I don't have my part 107 yet.
Um, I'm working on that.
It's a pain in the ass.
It's not easy.
Um, but yes, yes, you do have toget involved with the FAA for
sure.
Um we have I this bro, this isthis has been the most active
chat we've ever had, Vanny.

SPEAKER_00 (01:43:43):
I can't speaking of active chat, pull up that$264
one from Arium Ariobohm said uhAI is very bad for getting
proper case law.
So if you look up case law justbased on the biggest search
engine everybody says, and youtype in what is case law for

(01:44:04):
this, there's four or five thatthey have in there that the case
law doesn't exist.
And unfortunately, there havebeen officers across the country
and defense attorneys that arequoting case law that doesn't
exist, and it's getting all theway to court, and even the DA is
not picking it, you know,they're certainly well, it must
be there.
They're they're doing this andthis and this, and they're

(01:44:24):
finding out that AI is puttingin uh some false uh case law
that does not exist.
So it is, as a human, look upyour shit the correct way.
Uh, make sure it's good, doublecheck it, even though AI is
spitting it out to you.
Don't be don't be that guy, gal.
Look it up, make sure it'scorrect.

SPEAKER_05 (01:44:41):
Yep.
Um, this is a good topic.
Um, some police departments fromRyan uh Land said uh some police
departments charge a huge amountof money to give civilians video
that they request.
I'm sure there's uh differentreasons for that.
So this goes into how much workgoes into getting the videos.

(01:45:02):
Sometimes I agree that it's ifit's your body cam video on a
call, you're on, great.
No charge, or maybe 20 bucksprocessing fee, whatever, small
amount.
However, there's people that domassive freedom of information
dumps like police activity, oneof our favorites.

(01:45:23):
Yeah, they they're paying money.
That is not they're paying moneyfor that.
That's a massive amount ofinformation they're trying to
process.
Somebody's got to do the work,and it can't be done for free.
Like it's somebody's gotta payfor that.
Just because we paid for theequipment and we're paying for
the storage, like again, guys,like that somebody's gotta do

(01:45:46):
the work.
Are you guys gonna work forfree?
Nobody's gonna work for free.
Your tax dollars, they'rethey're covering getting the
footage, it's not covering goingand retrieving it and all that
than the physical capacitydrives that we're giving to
people to have it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:45:59):
I mean, that's got to be paid for as well.

SPEAKER_05 (01:46:01):
Yeah, yeah.
So it's uh that's a sl it'sgonna get better though.
Yeah, data's inevitably getseasier and easier to store,
smaller, faster, all that stuff.
So it's going to be easier, butright now we're still kind of in
that infancy stage where we'retrying to figure out how to move
masses, amounts of data.
Um, we got to get that datasmaller and we got to get it

(01:46:21):
more convenient.
So that will come, but right nowwe're just in a shitty time for
that.
And it I think that's whythey're charging because it just
takes a lot of time and andmanpower.

SPEAKER_06 (01:46:32):
Um drive by the airport to loot the drone.

SPEAKER_05 (01:46:35):
Uh yeah, country, country guy living said that's a
subjective question.
There is no right or wronganswer.
It's based on perspective.
I don't know what we're talkingabout.
I must have been somethingearlier.
Uh my sheriff's office said theywould arrest me if I recorded in
the courtroom.
I already read that one.
Uh sounds like drones are takingover where helicopters were
used.
Yeah, I agree.

(01:46:56):
I think I absolutely thinkdrones are going to replace
helicopters.
A hundred percent.
In in a law enforcementcapacity.
I think drones are gonna they'regonna replace them.

SPEAKER_06 (01:47:06):
Yeah, because the helicopter doesn't do anything
else other than observe.
Right.
I mean, until we're actuallyrappelling out of troop carrying
helicopters to respond tosomething.

SPEAKER_05 (01:47:16):
Yep.

SPEAKER_06 (01:47:17):
Yeah, we're just eyes on with the helicopters.

SPEAKER_05 (01:47:20):
Agreed.
Um AI has learned how to getaround finding the right answer,
it is only looking to completeits task, not find the right
answer.
Huh.
It's an interesting change.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, that makes sense.
Um, AI has a problem withaccents.
Oh, I bet it really with Gaelicpeople and stuff.

(01:47:42):
Drive by the airport to eludedrones.
Yeah.
Well, no, not necessarily.
No, we can still fly byairports.
It goes into airspace again.
Um, because you have differentlike A, for instance, uh A
airspace is like where theplanes fly way up 30,000 feet or

(01:48:03):
high or something like that.
Uh, I think the generalized onethat we deal with is like G and
G and E, and I don't I don'tknow.

SPEAKER_00 (01:48:12):
Well, if you if you just think about, you know, like
uh, I don't know, Dallas FortWorth area, they have Class B
airspace, and that's going tosurround uh right at that 250,
as you get closer to an airportlike DFW or Alliance, you get
into that Class B airspace, andthat's that transition airspace
uh for takeoff and landing.
And as you get closer, theairport, and what I want

(01:48:33):
everybody to picture the if youlook above uh where everybody
lives, above the buildings andeverything, picture like an
upside down uh wedding cake.
And as it goes higher, the theairspace gets wider.
So the Class B airspace um isthe one that we really have to
be careful with in reference tolaw enforcement on where we're
flying on on our where we'reallowed to do it.

SPEAKER_05 (01:48:54):
Yep.
Um Kate Sexton said, blessed tohave been trained by George.
He's the best.
Uh for that.
It's funny because I've I alsohave been trained by George.
I I basically started gettingtrained when you first started
with a department.
Uh because I've been there justabout that long.

SPEAKER_06 (01:49:10):
What class?

SPEAKER_05 (01:49:11):
131, 132.

SPEAKER_06 (01:49:14):
No, you weren't you were a tiny little class.
Not all of you guys made it.

SPEAKER_05 (01:49:20):
No, we had 34 that started, and only 16 graduated.

SPEAKER_06 (01:49:23):
No, I started up there with class 128.

SPEAKER_05 (01:49:25):
Okay, so real close.
That's what I mean.
Yeah, it was real close.
Yeah.
Um I appreciate that.
Thank you.
Let's see.
Uh Harrison said the FAA ismaking new rules to stop drones
made in China from entering theUSA for sale.
Well, I I would I'd love to tellyou this.
Uh, the police departments wereway ahead of that.
We said if they're from China,we're not taking them.

(01:49:47):
So that's been a big thing.
A lot of police departments havebeen turning them away in lieu
of knowing that that's what theFAA was trying to get ahead.
So um we're we're in the sameboat.
We're not trying to uh get Ithink that Scottio is all 100%
made in the USA.
And Brink also, I think, is soyeah, that is a big deal right

(01:50:07):
now.
You're right, Harrison.
Uh let me see here.
Heat shield.
Good research practices, justlike Wikipedia.
We have had enough time tounderstand.
You look at sources, Grokprovides sources.
That's true.
Um, and I've noticed Chat GPT isstarting to show sources as
well, where they're pullingtheir information from.

(01:50:29):
So that's good.
Um, again, it goes into how wellyou do your search.
If you do a general question,you're gonna get a general
answer.
But if you do a detailed searchwith detailed parameters, tend
to get a more detailed answer.
Um it's cheaper to replacedrones with helicopter jet fuel
is costly.

(01:50:50):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Um Marine blood.
I posted a picture of two cops,uh, one on a private jet in the
Discord.
Join the Discord to check itout.
Is it just a it's gonna be alittle toy?
I don't have a private jet.
Um Heat Shield said upside downwedding cake is a decent visual.

(01:51:14):
Uh yeah, upside down weddingcake.
That's how airspace looks.
That's a good yeah, yeah,absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 (01:51:21):
Learn that.

SPEAKER_05 (01:51:22):
So you can it did surprise me when I was going
through the 107 class.
How close to an airport, the waythe airspace works around it.
I'm like, oh shit.
And then you learn how theynavigate when they're gonna land
and all that stuff.
It was weird.
I learned a lot, and I'm I havezero interest in being a pilot,
but you're basically goingthrough pilot class.

(01:51:43):
Um look at the FAA drone map.
You can't fly a drone near anairport, particularly in landing
path.
Well, duh.
Of course you can't, but you canfly near an airport.

SPEAKER_00 (01:51:57):
And there are certain airports that can take
over your drone, and the largemanufacturer ones when it gets
into uh that controlledairspace.
If you're overriding whateversoftware that that that that
manufacturer of a drone alreadyhas built in for you to avoid uh
such locations, yes, they cantake over your drone, and that
is a safety perspective.

SPEAKER_05 (01:52:16):
Yep.
Um if you'd like to support thechannel, give this link a little
tap.
Love it.
Um, so yeah, guys, uh one of thethings that we do to help
support the page uh in theplatform of what we're doing is
we have this thing called Buy Mea Coffee.
The link's up there right now.
Uh, if you buy a membership anddo that on the YouTube channel,

(01:52:38):
that's great, but YouTube getsthe majority of that.
If you don't want to helpsupport a superpower like
YouTube, which they probably gottheir own country by now, uh get
around them and uh go to Buy Mea Coffee, and that's just a
different way that you can helpsupport the channel.
So um look at us.
We got through all of those.

(01:52:59):
I haven't seen Mr.
Billful on, he must have jumpedoff.

SPEAKER_00 (01:53:03):
No, he's still there, he was just there coming
through.

SPEAKER_05 (01:53:05):
Well, I'm in the pinned comment, so I didn't see
it.
It is what it is.
Um okay.
Let's get shit.
We're almost two hours in.
We haven't even gotten to thevideos.
We'll get to a couple videos,and we're gonna we're gonna call
it at two hours though.
Because it's damn near 10o'clock.
I gotta work in the morning.
George gotta work in themorning.
Are you off?

SPEAKER_00 (01:53:23):
I'm only getting paid for two hours tonight.

SPEAKER_05 (01:53:27):
I do have some videos uh tuned up over here.
Let me uh we already did thatguy.
Let's get this guy off of here.
Alright.

SPEAKER_06 (01:53:40):
That's the creeper that follows me around on the
treadmill.

SPEAKER_05 (01:53:44):
That was the creeper.
All right, here.
How long is this one?
Let me look at the length ofthese videos.
Oh, this will be a good one.
All right.
Share screen.
Boom.
All right, shout out to policeactivity.
That's where we're getting allour videos tonight.
Um we're gonna biggie size thisguy.

SPEAKER_00 (01:54:06):
I will uh I'll be quiet on this one this way.

SPEAKER_05 (01:54:08):
Yes, I I actually already covered this one, but
George wasn't here for that.
So I'm gonna let George coverthis guy.

SPEAKER_04 (01:55:18):
What do you think, George?

SPEAKER_06 (01:55:20):
I think we need to hire that kid in the white
shirt.

SPEAKER_05 (01:55:23):
No shit.
He's a Marine.
Lost French and he's a formerMarine.

SPEAKER_06 (01:55:27):
Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_05 (01:55:28):
Um so uh I'm sorry, what branch did you say that was
Eric?
I didn't hear it.
Rhymes with Sardine.

SPEAKER_06 (01:55:38):
We had to travel that way.
The Navy didn't have very muchroom for us in their ships.
Right.
Um so what's your impression,George?
As far as what?
What are what are we what are welooking at here?
Just on face value, the onlyreason that cop made it out of
that is is dumb luck.

SPEAKER_05 (01:55:58):
Yeah, we had a malfunction of the firearm.

SPEAKER_06 (01:56:00):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (01:56:00):
And um because he pulled the trigger, you could
hear it.

SPEAKER_06 (01:56:03):
Right, click, right.
And there's all kinds of thingswe can get into about
pre-assault indicators andsafety of the people that are
being detained and what they'rebeing detained for and whatnot.
And if you were to look at ifyou were to look at this event
and without having the gun intoplay, but we take that person
and we put them in handcuffs andsit them on that bench while

(01:56:24):
we're continuing thisinvestigation, is that
unreasonable because we're we'reputting them in handcuffs when
they're still just beinginvestigated, whether or not
probable cause have beendetermined or not.
I don't know if he's underarrest yet.
I'm assuming that that's aprisoner pickup.
Pretty much.
Okay.
Pretty much so he's underarrest.

(01:56:45):
Why isn't why isn't he inhandcuffs?
But that's that fine line thatwe look at because he's a kid,
it's a it's a non-violentmisdemeanor offense.
Why do we have to be soheavy-handed and put him in
handcuffs and sit him on thatbench there?
That's exactly why we do thosethings, right?

SPEAKER_05 (01:57:03):
And I'm what I've learned since watching, because
I've watched this video severaltimes.
Um, there's a longer video thatwe don't have access to, but he
does a hasty pat down.
It's a shit pat down, and hemissed it.
Yeah, and that was the problem.
He did a shit pat down.
So when we start talking abouttraining and you know, yeah, he

(01:57:27):
had indicators that he was gonnado some dumb shit, but it could
have all been prevented if wejust done a proper pat down,
sure, which we have absolutereason to do one because we're
there for an offense that wasbrought in by loss prevention at
Walmart.
So um, banning tell SergeantLevine that there is no former
before Marine.

(01:57:48):
I know that's why I like fuckingwith you guys.
It's it's purely to get underyour skin.
Uh, so from camp pen devil pup.
Oh too funny.
I love I love messing with you,Marines.
Uh, too funny.
Um let me see here.
Going through the comments.

(01:58:09):
Yeah, Mr.
Billfold, the cop did not pathim down when he got there,
obviously.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, Perry Lemmley said emptychamber.
I don't know.
It could have been emptychamber, it could have been uh
bad mag load, it could have beenlike it was the the rounds
weren't seated properly.
That's what I think.
Because he racks the gun againand tries to fire it again.

SPEAKER_06 (01:58:34):
It's gonna be that it was out of battery too,
because it looked like was hetrying to hide it in his sleeve?

SPEAKER_05 (01:58:40):
That's what I'm not sure.
Hold on, there's a way to makethis go slow-mo again.
I just gotta remember how.
Um playback speed.
Yeah, I want to make this onebetter.
Playback speed.
We'll go half speed.

(01:59:06):
Oh, we gotta actually share thescreen.
I forgot to share the screen.
There we go.

(01:59:46):
He pulled the trigger twice andhe racked that thing.
Girlfriend absolutely had noidea he was about to do that.
Girlfriend didn't know.

(02:00:07):
That's not the reaction ofsomebody that knows this is
about to go down.

SPEAKER_06 (02:00:10):
That's not part of the plan, bro.

SPEAKER_05 (02:00:11):
Yeah.
So you hear the I think that'sso you hear the click.
There he is, racking the gun.
Yeah.
Does he ride the slide?
Is that what maybe happens here?
Nope.
And he pulls it again.
You can hear it click.
You can hear that gun does notgo off.

(02:00:36):
And then he decided he didn'twant that smoke.
Yeah.
I am gonna give this officer,and I said this before,
incredible restraint to not pullthat trigger.
Yeah, incredible restraint.
Um, and now you guys got toremember too, this officer, he
is in such a weird loop rightnow, trying to figure out do I

(02:00:59):
pull the trigger, do I not pullthe trigger?
Is this guy fighting to get thatgun back?
Yeah, because he does recognizethat the guy drops it.
Yeah, because he comes in withthe knee and he holsters.

SPEAKER_00 (02:01:10):
Yep.
And you can tell that Marine'strying to bring that thing to
his body, doing a great, greatjob of control.

SPEAKER_05 (02:01:16):
So he's trying to separate the guy from the
weapon.
Meanwhile, the Marine is goingfor the gun to get that
separated.
Girlfriend's trying to get thefuck out.
Yeah, she's out.
Um, so the knee strike, I'm goodwith that all day.

SPEAKER_06 (02:01:31):
Yeah, I I think someone addressed that as a
called that a kick to the groin.
I think it's a knee strike tothe to the midsection of her
chest.

SPEAKER_05 (02:01:37):
Yeah, yeah, or the head, one of the two.
I can't I can't remember.

SPEAKER_06 (02:01:40):
All day, all day.
There's lethal threat on thetable.

SPEAKER_05 (02:01:43):
Yeah, I'm completely fine with this.
There's zero.
And he's trying to holster.
Meanwhile, you got to keep himaway from the weapon that the
officer still believes is righton the floor next to him.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (02:01:55):
And the officer's got his hand on the weapon too.
So that's right.
That in an in an up closeencounter where we're going
hands-on, that's gonna be aproblem.

SPEAKER_05 (02:02:04):
Yes.

SPEAKER_06 (02:02:05):
So he has to address that too.
And he addressed it perfectly byholstering.

SPEAKER_05 (02:02:08):
Yep.
Look, he's he's just he's in aweird spot.
The officer's trying to get hisgun put away, but realizes if
this guy leans forward, theweapon's right there.
So let me keep going.
Officer does a good jobholstering up.

(02:02:29):
Notice that he looks away fromthe suspect to put his holster
to holster his weapon.
So he's taking his eyes awayfrom the bad guy, turns forwards
and boom, delivers a couplestrikes.
So he did all of that in like ahalf a second.

(02:02:49):
Yeah.
I know we got it in slow mo, buthe did all that in half a
second.
So delivers the knee strike,turns His head puts his weapon
away, comes back.
He was throwing those punchesbefore he even knew where to
throw them.

SPEAKER_06 (02:03:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (02:03:02):
And so him turning, throwing those, they they were
blind punches when he firststarted.
He realized, oh, the guy'shuddled up.
Let me get him to the ground andI'm gonna finish the arrest.
So I'm good with that use offorce all day long.
Uh people on the can you fuckaround and find out.
What did oh, people are teasingMike?
What did he say?

(02:03:22):
What did he say?
He was lucky.
Yeah, I know that.
Um, that metal TCOD badge issick.
Well, you can get that metalbadge.
We got it for sale on uhghostpatch.com.
Um, them 3D printed guns he hadin a fanny pack.
Why wasn't he searched?
Yeah, that's what we're saying.

(02:03:43):
Uh oh, Mike was saying excessiveforce.
He's being dumb.
Um, Steve Perry said, fuckaround and find out.

SPEAKER_06 (02:03:52):
Oh, good eye.
He said uh forgot guns needbullets, nothing ejected when he
racked it.
I didn't catch that.

SPEAKER_05 (02:03:58):
Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
His hand was over the slide.
Yeah, so I was looking for around to come out, and um yeah,
it was great restraint by thatguy.
Um I mean, honestly, consideringwhat just happened to him,
that's probably one of the mostprofessional responses I've
seen.

SPEAKER_06 (02:04:16):
Yep.

SPEAKER_05 (02:04:18):
That was that was a very professional response.
Um, and that was out of Canton,Ohio.
So um looking at the commentshere.
Uh could have been high point.
That was a legit gun.
He had a red dot and a and alight on there.
Um it could have been a cheapass gun, true, but um it it

(02:04:42):
didn't seem like one.
So uh let's see here.
Let's go to let's go to a shortvideo.
That's five minutes.
I don't want to do five minutes.
Seven minutes, I don't want todo seven.
What's this one?
239.
There we go.
Why did this go so large?

(02:05:05):
What are we laughing aboutbeing?

SPEAKER_00 (02:05:07):
Oh, you're just discussing time on performance
time.
I'm just gonna think about it.

SPEAKER_05 (02:05:13):
Okay, let me share this tab.
All right, why is that so biggiesize?
There we go.
And again, police activity.
We're on ten eighty.
Okay, we're good.

(02:05:34):
And play.

SPEAKER_06 (02:05:45):
George, translate.
Sounds like she's gonna say myson's got a knife in George.

SPEAKER_10 (02:05:59):
He has a knife and he says he wants to kill
himself.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (02:06:32):
You okay?
Do you have anything in yourhand?

SPEAKER_05 (02:06:36):
Okay.
I'm just gonna say this.
Based on mom speaking on 911, myhope would be that you got
somebody that was Spanishspeaking with you.

SPEAKER_04 (02:06:46):
Because this isn't gonna turn out well.

SPEAKER_05 (02:06:48):
Yeah.
My assumption's gonna be thatyou speak Spanish or the very
broken English because of thecaller.
So I'm hoping that got put out.
Um you gotta get mom back.
She's gotta get like Iunderstand they're trying to
address what's going on in here,but they are not doing a good
job of getting her out of theway.

(02:07:09):
She's but she's a distractionnow.
And so is you know, Fido there.
That's gonna be another problem.

SPEAKER_07 (02:07:19):
Hey bud, let me see your hands.
Yeah, come on over here, okay?

SPEAKER_05 (02:07:26):
Okay.
I'm already game planning.
If I can see his hands, cool,I'm gonna use that door.
If he starts running towards me,I'm just gonna shut it.

SPEAKER_08 (02:07:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (02:07:37):
I'm gonna shut that door and just wait for him to
thud and and probably just keepit shut.
Yeah.
So you got anything on that,Banning?

SPEAKER_00 (02:07:49):
No, I don't not more than what you said.
I mean, I unfortunately we'veall of us have to go had to go
into situations like this.
And, you know, if I can see bothhands and they're in the
hallway, I've been a type of guythat will just uh go grab up and
depending on why we're calledthere to begin with, uh, but
just to make everybody safe andjust kind of wrap them up and
detain, depending on, again, whywe're there to begin with.

SPEAKER_05 (02:08:09):
Um, Brander, I'm gonna push back on this.
She's only a distraction if youlet her be one.
Um, that's not true.
You've never dealt with adomestic with a statement like
that.
Because the moment you turn yourback on somebody when I go to
put hands on her son, she'sgonna fucking flip and she's
gonna be on your back like adamn spider monkey.

SPEAKER_00 (02:08:30):
So I've been hitting the back of the head with a
plate from approaching the top.

SPEAKER_05 (02:08:34):
I had one break a wooden spoon over the back of my
head.

SPEAKER_06 (02:08:36):
Well, I mean, don't look at her as just a
distraction.
She's an another variable oranother potential that he could
harm.
You are tasked with protectingher life as much as his.
So he could lunge for her.
So you have to take that intoaccount.
You would be you would benegligent if you didn't.

SPEAKER_05 (02:08:53):
As soon as the cops show up, he may take that as a
betrayal and turn his focus frombeing on himself to being uh to
her.
I've seen that happen unseen.
You're dealing with a barricadedperson, and you get there, and
then they find out that momcalled the cops on them.

SPEAKER_06 (02:09:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (02:09:09):
And now they're trying to get at mom.

SPEAKER_06 (02:09:12):
So Elmer Thud.
Thuds against the door.

SPEAKER_05 (02:09:16):
Right.
Oh shit, I lost the mouse.
There it is.
All right, let's keep going.
Um play.

unknown (02:09:23):
We got one mail coming out.

SPEAKER_07 (02:09:24):
Do me a favor, stop right there.
Stop right there.

SPEAKER_05 (02:09:27):
Nice demeanor.

SPEAKER_07 (02:09:28):
Just turn around.
Keep on coming back.
No, no, no, turn back around.
Turn back around.
Come back.
No, no, no, turn back around.
Turn back around.
Turn back around.

SPEAKER_05 (02:09:39):
Okay.
Not in a good situation here.
For somebody that's own mothercalled on him as being armed
with a knife.

SPEAKER_06 (02:09:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (02:09:47):
So okay, now it's uh fade the blade.
Get the fuck out of Dodge.
Um, I have literally ran twoblocks.
I was fast.
So I ran two blocks.
I turned around and looked, thedude's like a block and a half
away.
Like I smoked him.

SPEAKER_06 (02:10:03):
Yep.

SPEAKER_05 (02:10:03):
But he had um, it wasn't a knife, it was a uh like
a a barbecue barbecue tool, likethe little two-poker guy.
Yep, he had one of those.
And um mess you up, right?
But he was wasted drunk, and Iwas like, I can outrun this guy.
So I ran, turned around, I waslike, all right, I got distance,

(02:10:24):
let me get my taser out.
Uh and he ended up focusing on aneighbor that was yelling at
him, like, quit fucking with thecops.
And he charged like fucking, Ican eat that tased him, so he
was done.
Uh yeah.
Anyway, let's keep going.

SPEAKER_09 (02:10:45):
Get another glum.

SPEAKER_05 (02:10:48):
Can hear it.

SPEAKER_09 (02:10:50):
Get another glam! Get another glam!

SPEAKER_05 (02:10:58):
This goes to the getting magnetized.
They started they starteddrawing in and closing distance
on a guy with a knife.
Um when we got the whole 21-footrule, you know.
It's not a real rule, guys, butit's uh it's a guideline, it's
more like the uh 35-45-footrule.
Yeah.
Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (02:11:23):
Come over here, phone.

SPEAKER_09 (02:11:30):
Hey, jump it, jump it.

SPEAKER_05 (02:11:33):
We tried to chase and one of the kill!

SPEAKER_09 (02:11:37):
Get him on the ground, the ground!

SPEAKER_05 (02:11:52):
That is what we call suicide by cop.
Unfortunate.
So going to the what is that?
Oh shit.
What'd you do?
I don't know.
You hit a button.
I don't know what I did.
Um, just going to the comments.

(02:12:12):
That's all the videos I'm gonnaplay for tonight.
Um get rid of this.
Let's expand this guy out for meand George.
We can get it.
God dang it.
There we go.
Big George.
I biggie side just George foryeah.

SPEAKER_06 (02:12:34):
I need all the help I can get.

SPEAKER_05 (02:12:36):
Um Country Guy Living said, I watched a video
not too long ago where a ladywas sitting in the middle of the
road having a mental issue.
About 15 cops showed up andunloaded on her within minutes,
even though she wasn't a threatto them.
Yeah.
I've seen VAD videos like thattoo.
Um Brandar said, didn't the callnotes say that he was going to

(02:12:58):
off himself?
Uh he yeah, suicidal peoplebecome homicidal people really
quick.

SPEAKER_06 (02:13:05):
With speed of thought.

SPEAKER_05 (02:13:06):
Yeah.
So just because you say you'regonna kill yourself doesn't
that's not a person that'sthinking clearly.

SPEAKER_06 (02:13:13):
Well, I mean, you you're you're already in the
mindset where you're okay withsomebody dying.

SPEAKER_05 (02:13:18):
Right.

SPEAKER_06 (02:13:18):
Are you okay with yeah, making somebody else die
with you that's trying toprevent you from dying?

SPEAKER_05 (02:13:24):
Yeah.
And for somebody that wants todie, it's very easy to try to
force somebody to make them killyou.
Yeah, especially the police.
That's why these calls come in.
Um, T Pearson said, so it lookslike they were advancing towards
him when his back was facingthem, then tried repositioning
back when he ran at them.

(02:13:44):
Yeah, that's why we say a lot oftimes with a threat, we tend to
magnetize in.
You see it a lot, especially insim round training.
We get hyper focused when we getin, we're going to clear a room,
we're doing uh active shootertraining or whatever it is.
We we see, we do a peek around acorner and we see the gun.
Show me your hand, show me yourhand, show me your hand.

(02:14:04):
We start moving in on it andinstead of staying back behind
our cover like we should.
So it's it's uh incumbent on usas instructors to recognize that
and and talk it through.
Yeah, don't just talk at them,but talk it through.
Walk me through what you werethinking.
Tell me what what was goingthrough your mind.
Well, I saw this and this andthat.
And okay, let me tell you what Isaw.

(02:14:26):
Tell them what you saw.
Then you have that discussion.
So um when time allots itanyway.

unknown (02:14:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (02:14:32):
What's more important at that time?
You're gonna have to prioritizein hundreds of a second.
Is it is it more important toneutralize that threat or not
get stabbed?

unknown (02:14:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (02:14:41):
I mean, your two best friends in an edge weapon
encounter are gonna be distanceand obstacles.
Yep.
But if those officers haven'tbeen exposed to that kind of
training, which which ours have,um they they probably will close
distance.
But the the tendency with ourprofession is to close distance
and start to solve the problem.

SPEAKER_05 (02:15:00):
Yeah.
Yep, absolutely.
Yep, I agree.

SPEAKER_06 (02:15:04):
Um that's not to explain that or condone or say
that it's right or whatever.
And then that's what I'm sayingis that's that's the human
tendency and human performancefactors kind of thing.

SPEAKER_05 (02:15:15):
Yeah.
Um Brandar said, I understandthat, but the officers didn't
even try to connect.
It started with directionsinstead of connection.
Well, I'm gonna say based on thetone and where they were at, it
looked like an apartment complexhallway.
Do I keep sight of the guy andtry to get him to come towards
me?
Hey, all right, come here, turnaround.
Let me see.

(02:15:37):
Like it's easy to Monday morningquarterback on how somebody
should start connecting andtalking.
Uh, but when you're in thesituation, I mean, you wanted
the same guy that had to worryabout you didn't want him to
worry about the mom that wasstanding right behind him.
He's trying to get her to getback while he's trying to talk
to this person.
You got to deal with what yougot in front of you.

(02:15:58):
There's there's no perfectrecipe for stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 (02:16:02):
And Ryan's got a good comment on there, the 6849,
the very last one.
This is this is something thatthat a lot of TV shows and cops
or whatever you're watching outthere does not cover.
This is uh and it's different indifferent jurisdictions, but a
lot of it's the same.

SPEAKER_05 (02:16:19):
What is the next few weeks like for police that
shoot?
I'm I mean, as far as policy,recovery, and time off.
Um, it's gonna be a shitstorm.
It's gonna be a shitstorm.
It's gonna be worried aboutgoing to jail, they're gonna be
worried about you know, going toprison, they're gonna worry
about morally and ethically, didthey make the right choice?

(02:16:41):
They're gonna second guessthemselves, they're gonna be
thinking over and over, could Ihave done something different?
They're gonna say, What was thepolicies and procedures?
Did I follow my training right?
What was I trained?
Did I see what I think I saw?
I thought I saw this, but nowI'm second guessing it because
another officer told me to seethat.
And now I got to worry aboutthat.
So these are a ton of things aregonna have to go through the

(02:17:03):
head.
How's my family gonna look atme?
Oh my god, I might have lost myjob even if I did the right
thing.

SPEAKER_00 (02:17:09):
And there's I mean, just to kind of give you just a
couple of the first steps, ithappens.
This whole scene that we justwatched unfold gets completely
shut down.
No ins, no outs.
Uh, if it's here in Texas, ifit's a definitely a rural agency
out in the middle of nowhere,Texas Rangers are on the way.
If the officer has what's calledTMPA or cleat as representation,

(02:17:30):
are coming to the scene to helpthe officer mentally think about
what happened to where they cango through their body cam
footage.
Uh the the officer, that the theguns that law enforcement used
uh are gonna be taken from thoseofficers, and only some agencies
replace those guns as they sendthem home, and that's another
big problem.
Uh, another reason why thesuicide rate is really high on

(02:17:51):
the law enforcement side whenthey've done something that's uh
like this.
I believe this is uh it'sunfortunate, but it's a
justified shooting.
Um and then now they gotta gohome and sit about it or and
think about it before they dotheir their actual articulation
and their narrative.
Usually they have um uh correctme if I'm wrong on this, but
most agencies, what, uh 24 to 72hours uh to write that first

(02:18:17):
narrative uh after an OIS orofficer-involved shooting, they
got to get something down onpaper.
Um it's it's a lot of thingsthat go on mentally and
emotionally for these officers.
Yes, they signed up for it, butthere's nothing, there's nothing
that can just truly prepare youfor it.
There's a lot that these theseyoung officers uh will have to
go through.

SPEAKER_05 (02:18:35):
Um Mr.
Belfold said, George, thanks forjoining us again.
Really appreciate you, even whenI disagree with you.
Um that's one of the goodthings.
Uh Brandar said, I guess mymentality is thinking of
everyone.
Officers are trained to worryabout their safety.
Fuck yeah, you're worried aboutyour safety.
You're out there dealing withthe worst of society.

(02:18:56):
That person, I'm not saying he'sa bad person.
He is in the worst type ofmindset.
Yes, officer safety isparamount.
Your health and wellness doesnot trump my personal safety
when you're being not in yourright mind, when you're not
following the laws.

SPEAKER_06 (02:19:17):
We also have the priority of life scale, and that
helps us with making those kindsof decisions.
Right.
So in the priority of lifescale, if you don't know, it's
it's hostages, innocentbystanders, um, first
responders, law enforcement, andbad guys, and then subject
suspect.
So if I have to make a decisionin hundredths of a second to
protect one life or and andpotentially end another by using

(02:19:40):
deadly force, I I have to decideon preserving that life.
Example, guy walking with a gunpointed to his head into a
crowded building.
I I don't want to shoot thatguy, especially in the back.
He's walking away from me.
Does he present a threat to meat that time in that instant?
No.
But can I can I articulate mybelief that if I don't stop him

(02:20:03):
using deadly force, he has thepotential to go in and take
hostages or kill innocentbystanders.
I have to make that harddecision.
And then another part of theprocess when you're involved in
a critical incident like that ina shooting, it's something very
simple.
You really don't think about ituntil it happens to you.
Those officers, they are umisolated from each other, from

(02:20:23):
everyone else, from supervisors.
They're literally taken theirguns are taken away from them,
and they're put in the backseatof a police car.
And and they sit there until thedepartment don't contact them.
Nobody's nobody's talking tothem.
And back, the people are justavoiding them.
Like the think about how thatwould feel after you've just
been through an event whereyou've had to take up a life.

(02:20:44):
Right.
And now you are in thatsituation.
It's hard.

SPEAKER_00 (02:20:49):
And and and not to mention, we didn't even bring
this up, is any any officerthat's there that discharged
their weapon towards thatsubject with the knife has now
got to go before a grand jury.
You're for doing your job andwhat you're trained, you are now
going before a grand jury.
And you in your mind, you know,that officer is on scene, like,

(02:21:10):
man, that's the last thing theywant to do when they wake up is
take a life.
And then it happened.
And now they got to go home.
And then they got to wait ongrand jury, and they got to get
all the thoughts and processes.
And then the then the suspect'sfamily is going through their
grieving too.
You know, three or four hoursbefore that, that guy may have
not have been in that mentalstate of what he went through.
Um, that that apparently youknow led to this here.

(02:21:32):
He may have been a great guy ina past deal, and now that this
unfolded in maybe a short amountof time.
It's a case-by-case basis, butit's tragic in the whole loop
here.

SPEAKER_05 (02:21:43):
Um what everybody said, I still think officers
should know that their arrivaladded a new variable and that
they should be aware of in a SBCscenario.
Yeah.
We know that.

SPEAKER_06 (02:21:55):
Yeah, we're trained on that.

SPEAKER_05 (02:21:56):
We're trained on that.

SPEAKER_06 (02:21:57):
Like officer presence is low-level use force.

SPEAKER_05 (02:22:00):
Right.
I mean, and then we get we getinto that so fine finite that we
try to tell people like if youlook like a bag of ass, you're
gonna be tested more versus aguy that's sharp dressed, uh,
you know, works out, has gunslike George.
Like it it makes a difference.

SPEAKER_04 (02:22:21):
Officer presence makes a difference.
So, yes, showing up.
That's why when they showed up,they weren't saying, Hey, show
me your fucking hand.
They didn't do that.
He was talking very nice.

SPEAKER_05 (02:22:32):
He was, in a sense, de-escalating by his tone.
They weren't being dicks and inyelling at him.
They said, Hey, can you can youdo it?
Can you turn around to talk likenormal?
So, yes, they they they alreadyknow this.
Um, now do all cops do that?
No, we've seen videos where I'mlike, your attitude just got you

(02:22:53):
into that use of force, you werein.
Asshole, yeah, 100%.
Yeah, and it got you into it.
Yeah, so um, but in this case,with this video, no, I don't
agree with you at all.
Um, Ryan's got another good uhpoint down there at the very
bottom of the phone.
Oh, yeah, he said, even if itwas all legit and the right
thing to do, that officer willforever live with that, too.

(02:23:13):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
You get you want to see a videoof somebody that just absolutely
went through it all.
Watch our interview with BruceAnderson, his shooting.
Like you got a guy that was avery proactive cop, um, and and
went through everything, almostwent through a divorce, uh, you

(02:23:34):
know, hated the department forthe way it turned its back on
him.
Um just all that.
He didn't, you know, he ended upbeing justified in what he did
and all that stuff, but it's areally eye-opening thing for
what he had to go through.
Uh bag of ass, my favorite, myfavorite fashion.
Or as they'd say in the militaryin boot camp, a duffel bag.

(02:23:57):
You look like a duffel bag.

SPEAKER_00 (02:24:00):
No, we used to just call him shit birds.
There you go.

SPEAKER_05 (02:24:04):
Too many morons think that cops will stop a
bullet for them.
And they don't even, accordingto the Supreme Court, they don't
even have to.
Now that's not the mindset thatcops have for the most part.
But um, at least in the state ofTexas, I think you can be
charged for for uh failure toact or dereliction of duty or
something like that.

(02:24:24):
Yeah, we actually have a chargein Texas.

SPEAKER_00 (02:24:27):
Um for which one was that, Eric?

SPEAKER_05 (02:24:31):
Like in a shooting scenario, like uh active shooter
if you're there and you don't godo something, like the Uvaldi
shit um that they were talkingabout.
Uh I don't know all the ins andouts of Uvalde.
I'd really like to get somebodyon to talk about that, but from
my understanding, it wasn't fora lack of wanting of not wanting
to go in due to cowardice, itwas bad information and um well,

(02:24:56):
how do we know they weren'ttrying to de-escalate?

SPEAKER_06 (02:25:00):
I mean, it's kind of a damned if you do, damned if
you don't maybe they should havebeen dealing in hundredths of a
second.
Yeah.
And somebody else, the way Itell the recruits is when you
get into an event like this,knife, uh edge weapon, gun,
whatever, okay, it comes down totime.
And the time clock, thestopwatch, is in the subject
suspect's hands, and he decideswhen to start the time.

SPEAKER_05 (02:25:23):
Yep.

SPEAKER_06 (02:25:23):
And everything that you do is after that is going to
be reactionary.
So you're you the problem isalways time.

SPEAKER_02 (02:25:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (02:25:30):
And the only things that we can do, like we try to
at our agency, is to createdistance.
Time equals time.
Time, distance, distance andcover equals time.
Yes.
And then greater time is greatersurvivability.

SPEAKER_05 (02:25:43):
Yep.
Yep.
And then the other part that wedon't address a whole lot in
here, because I'm not big intoum the side of the house that I
can't control.
But one thing that we seem tolack is uh accountability for
the person that started thewhole thing.
Nobody that guy could havestopped that at any time.

(02:26:07):
Could have just not ran, not dideverything that he did.
He could have given up when hewas obviously outnumbered.
So we have to be able to turnand point the finger at the
person that caused it all tobegin with.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (02:26:23):
There's some great points coming up there.
Failure to act as in failure todo your job, basically.

SPEAKER_05 (02:26:28):
Yep.

SPEAKER_06 (02:26:29):
Um, yeah.
I I would be held accountable ifthat if that subject made it to
his mom and stabbed his mom.
Why didn't I stop him fromstabbing his mom?

unknown (02:26:37):
Yep.

SPEAKER_06 (02:26:37):
And that's why things like the priority of life
scale in in trainingenvironments helps us get to
those decisions quicker becausewe're out of time.

SPEAKER_05 (02:26:44):
Jesus Christ, Brandar.
Mother was on the far left ofthe back the knife wheel that
ran to the left.
It doesn't fucking matter, dude.
Do you know if there's anothercivilian in the parking lot?
Yeah, there's other cops outthere.

unknown (02:26:59):
Mr.

SPEAKER_06 (02:26:59):
Billfold, thank you.

SPEAKER_05 (02:27:00):
Thank you.
You're just arguing for the sakeof arguing.
Yeah, I agree.
Like I'm I'm all about havingsome constructive uh
conversation, Brandon, but notwhen it gets into the point of
just ridiculousness.
That's ridiculousness to me.
Uh that mother killed her sonout of ignorance.
She believed the BS.

(02:27:22):
I I don't I don't necessarilyagree with that.
I think she thought her son wasgoing through a true mental
health crisis.
I do think that that was athing.
Um, and I think I honestly thinkthat's what the kid wanted.
I think he was he just this wasa suicide by cop.
Um but yeah.
Well, anyway, guys, you gotanything, banning, before we get

(02:27:44):
out of here?

SPEAKER_00 (02:27:46):
I'm just glad we didn't send in the social
workers or knocked up.

SPEAKER_05 (02:27:49):
Look at look at Alan showing off his Christmas shirt.
I like it.
He's got a Christmas story shirton.
Uh, too nice.
I went with my uh Flamingo withGun Legs uh retro shirt tonight.
Um George is wearing his uh allblack tonight.

SPEAKER_03 (02:28:08):
Those are the AI guns.
Yeah, that's the name of thatshirt.
That's his fan, that's his Ponzishirt.
Hey, I like Fonzi.

SPEAKER_06 (02:28:16):
Hey, Ponzi when it was prime time and not
syndicated.
Not syndicated?
Oh, didn't know what happened toPinky Tuscadero after the
demolition derby.
If you know, you know.
You know.

SPEAKER_05 (02:28:28):
I remember when he jumped the motorcycle.
Yeah, yeah, I remember that onetoo.

SPEAKER_00 (02:28:32):
That didn't go so high.

SPEAKER_05 (02:28:34):
You what?

SPEAKER_00 (02:28:37):
So that didn't go so high.
Well, you don't remember when hedid it on uh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (02:28:42):
But uh all right.
Well, I've got nothing.
Uh Banning's got nothing.
Alan just showing off his shirt.
George, you're the guest ofhonor.
You get the parting words, sir.

SPEAKER_06 (02:28:51):
Thank you so much for letting me be a part of
this.
All right.

SPEAKER_05 (02:28:54):
Well, you seem to be a popular extension of the show.

SPEAKER_06 (02:28:56):
I appreciate that.
So I really hope that uh movingforward with these kinds of
ideas, we can we can actuallyget to the source of these
things and make it better.

SPEAKER_05 (02:29:05):
Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_06 (02:29:06):
That's the goal.

SPEAKER_05 (02:29:06):
Yeah.
Well, next time we have you on,we'll have a whole agenda and
with uh some solution offers tofigure out figure out what
people have to say about it.

unknown (02:29:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:29:17):
Hey, what do you think about in the future, Eric?
Uh, once the show startsdeveloping more and we start
bringing our audience in to douh scenarios with us.

SPEAKER_05 (02:29:25):
I'm down.
I'm down.
I'd I'd like to get Mr.
Billfold, but afraid he mightjust hulk out on me.
So uh oh man.

SPEAKER_06 (02:29:38):
I can get a hold of a simulator if we needed to.

SPEAKER_05 (02:29:41):
Yeah, we could, I think.
Yeah, that would be cool.
As long as you don't have afelony on your record.
Yeah, we could get you in there.
That would be awesome.
But uh, all right, guys.
I appreciate everybody tonight.
This was fun.
Uh, had some good conversations.
Brandar, still love you, buddy.
Um, Mr.
Bill Fold, good stuff tonight.
Marine Blood, my mods, MarineBlood, Twitchy Skitch.

(02:30:03):
Uh, thank you very much.
Um, I'm missing one.
Uh Natalie, I don't know if shewas on here tonight.
Tim, bearded Tim.
Uh, thank you for all your modstuff.
Uh, Rogue Nation audits in thehouse.
What's up, brother?
I just saw that last second.
Just want to give you a shoutout.
Um, Mr.
Billfold, my attack dog.
Appreciate you guys.

(02:30:23):
Everybody, have a good night andtake it easy.
And have a Merry Christmas.
Appreciate a Merry Christmas.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}We Break Down How Poor Training, Not Bad Intent, Fuels Bad Policing And What To Fix First

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We Break Down How Poor Training, Not Bad Intent, Fuels Bad Policing And What To Fix First

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