Episode 24 - Jane Thurgood-Dove - Two Crime Besties

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:16):
Welcome back to Crime Besties. We're here for another episode,
up to episode 24 this week. Hi Emma, how you going?
I'm great Meg, we hit a bit of amilestone this week and I'm a
bit excited you shared it on oursocials.
We hit 10,000 listens across allof our episodes so far.
So in less than a week after that, we're at 10 1/2 thousand,
yeah. Yeah, we're, we're gearing up

(00:38):
for almost 11,000 now. So thank you to everybody for
listening and we love the fact that it's like gaining traction
and we, you know, we're getting more and more amazing feedback.
We had some really nice feedbackthis week from a listener who we
don't neither of us know. I think we mentioned somebody
last week who we don't know and you know, this person's been
leaving some really lovely comments and and liking a lot of

(01:02):
our posts. So thank you very much to
Sweetheart Nail Studio. That's her handle.
I could do with a good nail studio too.
Where are you? Yeah, actually, yeah.
Let us know. But anyone who wants to follow,
I had a quick look at her Instagram and it looks gorgeous.
So I hope she's local. So thanks so much for listening
and and to everybody who who is listening, we really, really

(01:24):
appreciate it. So thank you.
Yes, for sure. How has your week been
otherwise? Yeah, it's been a week.
I'm Yep, surviving this week. We'll put it that way.
Yeah. Yeah.
How about you? Because you've had a week.
We've had a bit of a week. I think I mentioned in one of
our episodes a few weeks ago that my son injured himself and

(01:45):
needed some stitches. And unfortunately, just due to
the nature of of where he, he had the cut and oh, anyway, it's
split open again and he ended upyou.
Messaged me on Monday like I just was like no like this is
crazy. It needed to be surgically
revised yesterday. So anyway, look, we're on the

(02:06):
right path now, but he's in a brace.
He's. So he's 10 years old.
He's probably one of the most active people I know.
And he's in a brace from fire tocalf because he can't bend his
knee for at least two weeks. So good luck to us.
Yeah, I was. Gonna say it's more good luck
to. You.
Yeah. Godspeed.
I know I was racking my brain and like, after I'd spoken to

(02:27):
him, this is what was kind of happening.
I'm like, what can we do? What what can we like?
Yeah, give him to like entertainhim.
I know Google searching things. Like I was like, Oh my God.
Because you're gonna go a bit crazy.
I. Think, look, we're lucky he
loves a video game and he's got a few shows that he wants to
watch in a movie or two. So oh, that'll get there.

(02:47):
Yeah, but then it's kind of likedon't ruin all of the Christmas
holidays. That's.
Right. Well, hopefully Christmas
holidays we can be more active and do this is.
It by then. The hippies will be fine you.
Won't wanna go to the movies or won't wanna go to like, yeah,
yeah, that's it, That's it. Although you do have to work on
certain days I guess and I think.
That's true. That's true.
We'll just shout out and I'll come and grab him.
Thanks. I'm not taking him to a

(03:08):
basketball court. Can we just rule that one?
Out. Yeah, Fair call.
Yeah, The last time that that actually was on the last day of
work last year. Yeah, Meg and I thought we'd
we'd get the boys together for abit of a pre Christmas catch up.
Yeah. And Ollie broke his arm really
badly so. It was more seconds of getting
to the park. Yeah, Oh my God, and that needed
surgery as well. It's just odd.

(03:30):
He's it's I mean, look, active kids, these things happen.
It's. Why his nickname is what it is?
Yep, All of a sudden. All of a sudden, yeah.
I love that. Yeah, it's so good.
Suds for short. Oh, it suits him.
To a team it certainly does. He is who he is and we love him
for it. Yeah, so that's that'll be our
weekend. He's just He's home from school

(03:52):
today and resting up but. So if you hear some noise in the
background, it's just him, I don't know, killing someone on
Fortnite? Yeah, exactly.
Well, a couple of his mates are home from school today.
I just had a message from one ofthe mums to say that they're on
online together so at least he'sbeing entertained.
Oh gosh, there's a few bugs going around.
So yeah, I'm sure there are a few kids at home.
Yeah, that's so funny. He's.
I knew, I knew he wouldn't interrupt us as long as I gave

(04:14):
him Fortnite and some snack food, Yeah, he'll be absolutely
fine. I know I went out there before.
I love it though. I said to you know how you're
feeling. He goes.
I'm all right, but I'm bit busy on my game.
Like yeah, thank you guys for asking, but please don't
interrupt any further. Oh God, he's so cute.

(04:35):
Gorgeous. Oh gosh.
So let's get into today's episode.
I guess we interesting one. It is an interesting one.
There's not a lot of informationout there, but we are talking
today about the case of Jane Thurgood Dove.
Jane was born on the 17th of March in 1963 and she met her
husband, Mark Thurgood Dove, when they were at school.

(04:56):
So they were like, you know, high school sweethearts and they
had three children at the time of at the time of this incident.
Mum speak about them as a coupleand a family.
It was just beautiful. I had, I sort of had a bit of a
tear in my eye, like, you know, yeah, the way she sort of spoke
about, you know, the fact that they were like the perfect
family, which is just lovely. They were.

(05:17):
They were meant to be together. Yeah, and a lot of love in the
home. You know, they were a really,
you know what, what you would want a suburban family to be.
Yeah. Mum, dad and three kids.
Yeah. At the time of the incident,
their eldest son Scott was 11 years old, Ashley daughter was
six years old and their youngestdaughter, Holly, was three years

(05:37):
old. Yeah, Jane's parents were very
involved in their family life and it sounds like they were
incredible, an incredibly close and tight knit sort of extended
family. Her parents were John and Helen
McGill. We'll be talking about them a
lot as the episode goes through because they are pivotal in in

(06:01):
terms of the way this case played out.
They're just amazing people. Strong people.
Really strong people to this day.
Like there's, there's stuff out there from, you know, as
recently as 2021 where they're still in the media advocating
for certain things. Again, we'll get to that as the
time goes on. On the 6th of November in 1997.

(06:24):
Two days. Ago, like we're so like, yeah.
Well, yesterday for us, as in like yesterday was Oaks Day.
We're recording the day after Oaks Day today.
So this happened on Oaks Day, which happened to be the 6th of
November in 1997. Jane had picked up the three
kids, so obviously it's still a school day.
She picked up the two eldest from school and the youngest
from daycare I believe, or preschool.

(06:47):
I think so, yeah. From what I can gather, either
that or she was at home with her.
She was doing home duties kind of stuff the day, Yeah, doing
that, all those sorts of things.Because they got to the school
pickup and I know she had a chatwith one of the school mums and
there was actually a conversation around, hey, come
over and bring the kids, have a cup of coffee after school
pickup. To which she'd responded.

(07:08):
I've literally got a load of washing on at home, so I'm gonna
go. I need to go home and put that
out, you know? So we'll give it a miss today.
Yeah, yeah. So she's picked the kids up from
school and headed straight home instead.
I just wonder whether had that friend gone, whether things
would have ended differently. I don't know.
Because given, given the nature of what happened next, yes, I

(07:29):
would imagine they were gonna dowhat they were gonna do
regardless of who was there. Yeah.
Exactly. So Jane has pulled into the
driveway of her home in Muriel St.
Nidri IN Melbourne. So it's in a northern suburb of
Melbourne near Essendon, is probably the most prominent,
yeah. Suburb out of out of the city, I
think, yeah. It's not far.
Yeah, as she's pulled into the driveway, a blue, a metallic

(07:54):
blue Holden Commodore, late model Holden Commodore has
pulled up behind her and basically blocked her into her
driveway. Yeah, and a pot bellied man gets
out of the car with a gun. He chases her around the car
twice. So at this stage, the three kids
are still strapped into the back.
She's literally just pulled intothe driveway.
Elders. Was in the front seat and her

(08:14):
two younger ones in the back, but they remained in the car.
Yeah. And strapped into that, the at
least the two in the back were still in car seats.
So they were still, you know, still strapped in.
Yeah, this man shot her twice. So she he's chased her around
the car twice. She's then tripped and fallen as
she's trying to get away and he shot her at point blank range

(08:36):
twice. Yep, right in the back of the
head. Yep.
He run down the driveway to the car that was parked at the
bottom and jumped straight into the passenger seat where there
was a scrawny looking guy with sort of longish hair, graying
dark hair. And he has floored it.
And they've driven off down Mural Street, by the way, end of

(08:58):
Mural Street. Do you know what the name of the
road is? What?
Hoffman Rd. Spelt incorrectly.
Of course it is. I didn't see that.
And then I was looking at him. I was like, oh, that's funny.
Oh. That is funny.
That's interesting. That's my surname for those
people. Yeah, they've jumped straight in
the car. So he's, there's obviously a
driver and this guy who's committed the the actual act
lips straight in the car, drivenoff quite speedily down the road

(09:20):
and taken off. Yeah.
So there's a couple of witnessesto this whole event, except
neighbours, obviously they've heard gunshots.
Whatever have seen been out in the neighbourhood has seen, have
seen the incident as well as obviously, unfortunately her
three children who were in the car and have witnessed this as
well. Yeah.
So in terms of those witnesses, what did you find out about
them? Not a lot, did you?
Find anything I couldn't the. Only so I only found something

(09:42):
about one of the witnesses. I know he was a male.
He was walking, just walking in the street at the time.
He was standing on the other side of the road.
But he saw enough that he was actually able to eventually
successfully identify the purse.The gunman, yes.
So the gunman was not like disguised in any way, I think

(10:04):
did did he have anything covering his face?
I don't think he. Did no no.
So Bella Club, that comes up into things later.
Yeah, I don't believe he he was wearing it at the time, but.
The the best description that came from the witness of of
those people on the street, but also then also her oldest son.
Mm hmm. Is this potbelly was the most
definitive, like sort of that hewas short and pot bellied.

(10:27):
Yeah. Like, sort of beer belly?
Kind of, yeah. So he's, you know, obviously the
witnesses, they've gone to try and assist in any way.
But I mean, she was shot at point blank range.
There was no assisting her. She she had had died in that, in
that, in that instance, yeah. The police obviously attend the
scene and the homicide squad is called in.

(10:49):
Yes, they pretty was heading up the homicide squad.
Well, I don't think he was on that first day.
He was. Was he on the first day?
He got the phone call just after4:00 PM to head out to the to
the scene. Yep.
So we're talking about none other than Ron Idols.
We've mentioned before on this show and in Melbourne.
He is like well known to Melbourne around his head up the

(11:11):
homicide squad for 20 years or something.
Yeah, yeah. So he's amazing.
He's just an incredibly beautiful man.
We've seen him speak live and he's just great.
But he's got his own podcasts and he's got his own TV series
called The Good Cop, where he talks about cases.
So he's got like a 99% success rate from all the homicides that

(11:32):
he's looked into over his years of experience.
So this was his. So yeah, he got the phone call
come in just after 4:00 PM to head out to Muriel Street.
And from all the information he got at that point was that it
was a drive by shooting and thatto go and check this woman has
been shot. So when he's arrived on the
scene, he's basically said that he as he walked in, he saw that,

(11:54):
you know, this beautiful woman in a, you know, youngish 34 year
old woman with three children's been brutally murdered.
And the three kids at that stage, the police had already
removed them from the scene and taken them down to a milk bar
down the road. So he after assessing the scene
and directing people as to wherehe wanted them to because he was
obviously the head of the of this scene at that point, he's

(12:16):
then wandered down to the milk bar to go and have a chat with
the kids. So, and I'm sorry, but if any
detective was going to interviewmy children at a point of that,
I would have Ron Iddles any day of the week.
He would or Noel Fraser. Utterly beautiful.
Yes, Absolutely. Yeah.
So I'm certain that the only reason he got as much
information as he did at that time is because he is so
incredibly beautiful. So he spoke to young Scott, who

(12:39):
was like 10 1/2, eleven. At the time, 11, yeah.
Yeah, so he spoke to him about things that I can only imagine
that poor kid at that in that point.
And he was able to describe the man.
But he's actually Ron's first question to him, what was going
through his head was, as we all do, a mum, a woman killed.
Who do you first immediately think Dad.

(13:00):
Dad, the husband? Yeah.
What's the issue here? Where's Dad?
What's the idea? So he was expecting to find out
that they were separated, if not, you know, for a long time
recently, something, something tumultuous.
So his first question to Scott is where's Dad, mate?
Expecting to hear. Oh, you know, you know, that he,
dad had been the one who was there or, you know, or something

(13:21):
along the lines. And he said Dad, dad went for
work to work this morning, you know, so he's like immediately,
OK, not separated, this is different.
So it immediately sparked for him that this was something very
unusual. I think I've heard Ron mentioned
the fact that you know this is where you start, of course,
because 8 out of 10 murders in your home are committed by your

(13:44):
significant other. We've.
Spoken about the statistics. Yeah.
So we've spoken about this in, we've spoken about this in
previous episodes as well. And if it's not your intimate
partner, then I think it's like 9 times out of 10, the person is
known to you in some way, same way.
So the police have actually goneto Marks place of work.

(14:04):
He worked at a factory in Broadmeadows.
And they wanted to see what his reaction was like when they told
him, yeah, that his wife had been murdered.
And apparently, according to Ron, the reaction was absolutely
that, yeah of a distressed and distraught human being who had
no idea. So obviously they needed to

(14:25):
corroborate his alibi and all ofthat sort of stuff.
Some people are very good at, you know, acting so you can't
rule it out, but it's not at all.
But from everyone's point of view at that point was like,
well, this isn't a a clean cut. Yeah, that's for damn sure.
That's it, yeah. At the same time, they've sent
another detective, a different detective around to John and
Helen Mcgill's house. And their retelling of this

(14:49):
breaks my heart. So the detective knocks on their
door. It's about 5:50 PM on on the day
of the murder. So on Oaks Day.
And it sounds like they were sort of fairly interested in
horse racing because they'd actually been watching the races
on the TV and decided to have a bit of an early dinner.
The they described the evening as a lovely warm evening.

(15:10):
And you know, they're getting getting dinner already and
they're sitting down and having their dinner and there's a knock
on the door. They go and answer the door and
the detective who presents says to them, are you, is Jane your
daughter? They say yes.
And let me just get, I'm sorry. Let me just get the exact quote

(15:35):
because it it's absolutely horrible.
Oh, sorry. The the detective says you have
a daughter, Jane. They say yes.
And this detective says she's been shot and she is now dead.
Who was that that sent? Which I don't know.
They've never named that detective.
Well, it wasn't Ron, I'll put. Give it it wasn't Ron.
It absolutely they know they've said it wasn't Ron because

(15:58):
they've then since had a lot of dealings with Ron.
Yes, but when I like I've heard the mum actually interviewed and
she said this quote, I'm like what the fuck?
Who says who says that? And this was at their door,
apparently. Oh, yeah.
How would you even react to that?

(16:18):
No, you'd. Be like what are you talking?
About Yeah, and. And these detectives also said
something along the lines of, well, we're gonna need to
eliminate you because you're a suspect, which they say.
Now, of course we had to be eliminated.
We totally understand that. But it's like there was.
Like Blunt about, I mean, yeah, that conversation happens while
she come in and have a cup of tea, like and like.

(16:40):
Or I mean, look, I understand. I understand having to be
direct, because you can't. There's no, there's no skirting
around the truth. Your daughter has been murdered.
That needs to be stated. Absolutely don't go.
She's been shot and now she's dead.
No, but like you say, can we talk?
Unfortunately, we've got some bad news.
Yeah, like you. You OK.

(17:06):
And look, yeah, I do understand the whole idea, you know, and I
think from what I, because what I read about it, like I read it
obviously not to that detail. And when I read that she was
talking about the fact that they'd been told you'll need to
be eliminated as as as suspects,the way I sort of read it was
like, you know, yeah. And she was very accepting of
that. They were.
Yeah. But I thought I didn't realize
it was that blunt of a conversation though of the way

(17:28):
that came out. Like, yeah, I understood it with
the point of like, I'm glad they've been open with them and
saying like, obviously in this situation to make sure that we
are covering all bases to find the right person, you
immediately as family, et cetera, have to be included in
that of people that we look at. Like absolutely.
Yep. Good.
Do your job. You know, please clear me and do
'cause I know I can be, you know, like, that's, that's it.

(17:49):
Please do your job. Yeah, 'cause this I want the
person founders. Yeah.
Yeah, for sure. But wow, that's so blunt.
Anyway, in the end, her parents and her husband Mark, were
eliminated as suspects. Like, they were absolutely,
categorically they had no involvement in her murder.
Yeah. So now the police are sort of at
a point where they're like, OK, next sort of circle out.

(18:11):
Let's figure out what we can. Define they still had mark on
their radar as potential. Nothing was glaringly obviously
that could be, could be. Him, but he could have organized
something. You just don't know.
Yeah. Well, that's sort of looking at
it like that. So basically Mark was still not
ruled out, but definitely her parents and that sort of yeah.
So they started looking at to see who else could be there.
Yeah. And I've, I've read a few

(18:32):
different scenarios as to how they move to their next suspect
on their list. So I'd be I'm intrigued to hear
what you have you only heard oneor have you heard multiple ways
in which? This is 1.
So what I found was that they actually found they were going
through James a handbag. Yes.
And at the bottom of her handbag, there was a phone
number scribbled on a piece of paper.
OK, so yeah, Ron tells slightly different.

(18:54):
OK, He says that it was a in herhandbag, but it was a card, like
a business card. Like so a business card for the.
Police, Yeah, yeah, OK. But I've also heard that it was
an anonymous tip. Oh, yeah.
Oh, I haven't heard that one. Yeah.
Do we know anything? More about that.

(19:14):
The other one I've heard is thather dad was a butcher.
Yep. And he worked at like the Mooney
Ponds market and had his butchery there and that
obviously then Jane would be around that a fair bit, spent
time down there around the markets.
And this particular person also spent time at the markets and

(19:34):
went to that butcher's and they met each other there.
Yes. So I I think that's how they
met, right? Yeah.
So I'm pretty sure the way this police officer and Jane met is
because the police officer wouldorganise the fortnightly BBQ at
the police station on a Friday night, right?
And would buy their sausages andmeat from Jane's dad.

(19:54):
Because I've I've jumped ahead of myself.
Sorry. My yeah, you have a bit, but
that's. OK, I've heard another way of
how they met too. Oh, right, yeah.
Anyway, well, this is this is what I've heard yeah, that that
they met and as a as a consequence of being such a good
customer of John Jane's dad, yes.

(20:14):
And being around so frequently, they've met they've developed a
bit of a friendship outside of the butchery slash police and
we're known acquaintances, probably not friends.
And then they've introduced at some point, Jane's been
introduced to this police officer in that, in that sort of
social circle. Right, because what Ron tells it

(20:36):
as is that she was his. House cleaner.
He she was. That's how they met those.
That is true too. So they they met in this way,
and Jane was just looking for a little bit of extra money.
Yeah, she wasn't working in any official capacity at the time.
She had young kids, and we all know what the juggle is like.
You need flexibility in whateverrole you've got when you've got

(20:58):
young children. So she was doing little odd jobs
like that and he was looking fora cleaner.
He was a single man working probably pretty crazy hours and
stuff, and decided that he wanted to clean up.
And so it was through John's. So John, Jane's dad, yes, that
they sort of made this connection and that's how that
came. About OK, so both are true like

(21:20):
because I was reading. Both are true, yeah.
How does that all feel? Love it.
OK great. I was hoping that would be the
case to be honest, because then it all comes together.
It really does. So, Jane.
So whether it's on a scrap pieceof paper or there's this police
card, they've called him. They've called this police
officer. Yeah, we can't name this guy
because nobody knows his name. It's never been released into

(21:43):
the media at all. So we will call him the police
officer. There's no other way in which we
can describe him. But they've contacted him and
when they've gone to his house to sort of figure out what the
go was, they've found some really interesting things.
They firstly looked at him and he fit the description of the

(22:08):
shorter. Belly man?
Yeah. That was first, uh oh, yeah.
But yeah. And then they walked in.
They walked in and what do they see?
They see a shrine to Jane. He was obsessed by her.
He. Obsessed.
Oddly obsessed, They've confiscated his or had a look at
his. I don't know that they took his

(22:28):
laptop away, but they've tried. To access, Ron tried to access
his computer and he went, I can't get on it like can you?
Can we have a look on your computer?
And he goes, oh, it's the password's Jane's birthday.
Yeah. 170363. So that was another red flag.
Massive red flag. Yep.

(22:50):
And then subsequently, yeah, he also purchased or tried to I.
Know he actually did, but he definitely changed his will.
He changed his will. Yeah, he did.
He also tried to later on. So as this investigation
progressed, yeah, he tried to buy a burial plot next to where
Jane was buried. Yeah.

(23:12):
Wow. Yep.
So wow. Wow, this is looking really bad.
For him it is especially becausehe also wasn't cooperating with
police. No.
Well, that that's kind of I can.And there's one sort of
description I've heard of that that I kind of go, all right, I
can understand now a little bit of why he was so uncooperative.
Did you listen to Andrew Rules podcast?

(23:32):
I think about it, or it wasn't. Yeah, because.
Oh. Well, they, they're almost one
and a saying, one and a saying. They're both awesome.
Yeah. Great journalist, great and
great podcasters. Yeah.
Yeah. So because he was a police
officer, he obviously contacted his union.
So and the police union have very good lawyers attached to
them. So I mean, as we would say to

(23:53):
anyone who's being looked out for a lot, for anything, whether
you're innocent or guilty, lawyer up.
Like you don't want to be caughtin a trap of anything like with
police. So you lawyer up.
So that's what the union have basically done with this guy and
they have instructed him to not comment.
Yep, but in in not commenting though he's obstructed yes
things and and he's taken favour, it certainly hasn't.

(24:16):
And Ron had a little bit of a chat with him about that later
on. Yeah, yeah.
So we'll get to there. We will get to that, actually,
yeah, we'll talk about that a little.
Bit later, but basically at thispoint he's looking like someone
who is potentially could he haveput, could there be a rejection
here from Jane and that's basically triggered him to
murder her? Yep.

(24:37):
So it's looking pretty dodgy forhim.
Things are not looking great. I mean, he's, as you said,
physically meets the description.
He's got a shrine to her in his house.
Her birth date is his computer password.
A lot of things are adding up here.
Did you find anything out about whether they actually had a

(24:59):
relationship or not? This no and I you can't confirm
it. He says yes, but is that very
once it's very one sided, you'reonly getting his side of that.
If he had this like weird obsessive thing, maybe like
things were conjured up in his head.
Although there was a one hour phone call, one hour 15 minute
phone call, which, and this was like a less than a week before
the murder. Yeah.

(25:20):
So they've checked obviously when they raided his house sort
of thing, they've found he's gone in through his phone.
Records. Yeah.
And so he said at the time that he had a 15 minute phone call
with her or one minute phone call, sorry, on that particular
date. And then when they've gone and
checked his phone records, it turns out the phone call was not
a minute, it was an hour and 15 minutes, which to me, someone
who, if you're like, I'm not interested in this guy, you're

(25:42):
having an hour and 15 minute phone.
Call, no, you're not. But she, from everything
everyone has said about her, shewas a really caring,
compassionate, really kind and lovely woman.
If she thought, I mean, she obviously would have known he
had this obsession with her and maybe she was just trying to be
really nice and talk him down and, you know, I don't know.

(26:05):
And. Maybe that phone call was that
look I'm not interested phone call.
Yeah, and I'm gonna let you downgently and.
We'll talk this through. She was really maybe.
I mean, as females we are taughtto be nice and we probably
shouldn't sometimes. We shouldn't, absolutely.
So yeah, I I can when you put itinto that sort of context, yeah,
maybe. And that's maybe why he didn't
want people to know how long thephone call was.

(26:26):
Like, you know, maybe it was like, you know, yeah, we've had
a brief chat like cuz we're cool.
Yeah, we have these quick one minute chats because we talk all
the time, Yeah. So basically at this point,
we've got Mark's kind of on the radar still.
He's not ruled out, but he's not.
But there's nothing glaring obvious with him.
The police, the police. Officer as well.
Just really. Quickly, sorry, you know, go.
I mean, he also had no alibi forthe day.

(26:48):
There was nobody. He was not working that day.
And he lived on his own. There was nobody to corroborate
his whereabouts at all. So another red flag.
Lining up for him of like going this is bad.
So this this point Ron is actually having a chat with as
he does his underworld connections, which we need to
get into like some Melbourne underworld stories down the

(27:10):
track. That'll be a series that will
not be a single no no. There's a lot in that that we
can get into. But yeah, there's a man within
that underworld met by the name of Des Moran, otherwise known as
Tuppence. Tuppence loving.
OK, Sorry. Anyway, Ron as he does, he has
connections with these people. He is, he's beautiful with

(27:31):
everyone he speaks to. He's not just caring and lovely
to the people who are victims. He builds these relationships
with the people he needs to to get information.
Yep. So he's and he's very
respectful, very respectful. The way he speaks about people
is just generally very amazing. So anyway, he's caught up for a
chat with Tuppence and Tuppence says to him I've got a bit of

(27:52):
info for you and what he says isthat there was a pot bellied man
who came into the cafe where he would regularly mate hang.
Yep, I could probably name it. We won't.
What do we mean in Carlton? Are there so.
You don't say. Yeah, so there was this man came

(28:12):
in and he paid someone else $2000 to loan a gun.
Now, so this guy does that leaves.
With this gun, no questions, no questions asked.
As you know, comes back though, days later and to return the gun
and the guy responds to this potbellied man.

(28:32):
Oh, no, no, no, no. I don't want to touch that gun.
That's dirty. You killed Jane Thurgood Dove.
And the pot bellied man turns back and goes, yeah, I did
because her husband Mark told me, paid me to do it.
Did he though? So yeah, so anyway, this is the

(28:53):
information he's got from a Philly.
Well, what's the word for it? Not a reputable.
Source, reputable source, but atthe same time certainly in the
know. So he's had to take this
information as it is and go, well, this isn't helping Mark's
case. Let's we can't we can't rule him
out Still. He's there's now another bigger

(29:16):
question Mark over him than there was, but not enough to be
going and arresting anybody, obviously.
So this has caused a fair bit ofconfusion for Ron.
So at this point, being who he is, he has decided he wants to
use some very different technology to kind of help him
rule someone out. And he's gone into what at this
point in time in 1997, it wasn'twidely used and it certainly

(29:36):
he's even as he said he goes, was never going to use this in a
court, but he decided to use a polygraph machine.
So he brought in Mark and he brought in the police officer to
sit down and do a polygraph. And from the polygraphs they
found that Mark passed the shining colours.
He completely passed. He was very truthful in what he

(29:57):
said he, but he had no involvement in Jane's death.
So he that really settled it forRon that he could eliminate him
from it. But the police officer did not
pass the polygraph. But again, can't be used in
court and doesn't go to the point of saying you can't you
killed her. So we can't charge him still.

(30:18):
But it's definitely still a massive question mark over the
police officer. The question that they posed to
him during this polygraph was, are you responsible for the
death of Jane Thurgood Dove? And he said no, but all of the
physical indications showed thathe was being deceitful.
Yeah. So OK, this adds more weight to

(30:42):
the fact that this police officer has had something to do
with Jane's death in some way. So let's leave that there for
now. Yeah, I was going to say, do you
want to come back to it? Or I think we come back to.
That, yeah. So basically right at this point
in time, we're looking at mark has been eliminated, but the
police officer is still questionmarks.

(31:03):
This goes on and on and on. And they're not finding any more
information. There's no more.
Three years down the track, theyorganize an undercover operation
of which we have no knowledge of.
We it's, and that's rightfully so.
Those kind of operations are very, they don't like to release
what their tactics are and thosesorts of things because
obviously then under undercover operations won't work.

(31:25):
Yeah. They can't become public
knowledge how they operate with those things.
Although I do have a friend who's an undercover cop, but I
can't name it. Anyway, I heard a few things,
but interesting, very interesting work.
So, yeah, anyway, undercover operation happens.

(31:45):
From whatever came of that undercover operation, they were
able to eliminate the police officer.
Ron sat down with that guy aftereliminating him and said to him,
mate, you have wasted our time because you have dodged
questions, made yourself look guilty.
And his response to that was, well, I wanted to protect Jane's

(32:09):
name because I didn't want it out there that she'd had an
affair. He also admitted at the time
that when he was asked about about that question during the
polygraph about whether he he was responsible for the death of
Jane Thurgood Dove, and he said no.
The reason it came up as him being deceitful is because at

(32:30):
that time he thought that Mark had found out that they were
having an affair and Mark killedher.
So he's fateful and yeah, he felt responsible in some way
for. Her murder.
So that's why it came up positive, Yeah.
Because he did feel responsible,Yes, According to him.
Like According to him. But then So what I find really,
I just think it's bizarre, if you actually really cared for

(32:51):
Jane and you really wanted an outcome where they would find
the person who's bloody well murdered her, why be
obstructionist? Why not just put everything out
on the table? I understand in the initial
instance that he's had that legal advice from the police
union and from a criminal lawyerwho was employed by the police

(33:11):
union. So that's fine.
But surely at some point you would be like, OK, I'm actually,
I need an on the record interview now to actually go
through and state everything I know.
I mean, he knew he wasn't responsible for her death.
Why couldn't he just come out there and say that?
Yep, and put it on record. And say what happened.
Yeah, like. And as you said.

(33:33):
Ron I somewhat think though, that's because I don't know that
there was a relationship there and I think he was by not saying
anything and alluding to things,it made him look like more like
he was. He was able to get Jane.
I agree with that. I agree with what you're saying.
I just think he's why. Is this man a police officer and
is he still? I think he is, which really?
Yeah, Fuck. I mean, I don't know if he is

(33:54):
now like, you know, however manyyears later and.
Things of people. But I know he continued to be a
police officer for many years after this absolutely incident.
Yep. So basically, so now we're at a
point of like, who's responsiblefor this?
Nothing. What do we do three years down
the track? So time ticks on further.

(34:15):
And this is where John Miguel really comes into the forefront
because he goes into bat for hisdaughter, basically, and he
actually asks of the government to put up a $1 million reward to
find out information about Jane.Can I?
This is quite. Yeah.
Do you want to go and explain how that all?
Yeah, I can, but we just need togo back a little bit.
So this actually happened, that happened in 2001.

(34:36):
So just previous to this though,another SO Andrew Rule, who was
a journalist, and John Sylvester, they were working
together at the time and they'd heard a tip because again, a bit
like Ron, they had connections to underworld figures and to
crooks and whatever. And they decided because they

(34:59):
were looking into the story and what could have possibly
happened, they were really curious.
So they actually decided to doorknock down near Drew St. and
figure find out what was going. On Yeah, but Ron tells a
different story of how, like legally I guess it came up.
Yeah, yeah. Well, this is it.
I mean, the the journalist reporting, they obviously have
to be careful as well, but this is this is what they say
happened. Yeah.

(35:20):
They've knocked on the door of, you know, several neighbours in
in the street and it has come tolight that potentially there was
somebody else in the street who may have been a target, a
potential target for this gangland style killing.
Yes. So Muriel St.

(35:41):
Yeah. Jane.
Jane and Mark's house was three houses from the corner.
They lived in a light coloured weatherboard house.
There was a street light out thefront of their house.
Jane drove a four wheel drive, ablue Jane, a blue Toyota, a very
blue Land Cruiser. Jane had blonde hair and three

(36:03):
children, three young children. And school aged?
Yep. Yep, a woman by the name of
Carmel Kipri or Kipri You Kipriyanu.
Kipriyanu. That's it.
But they they go by Kipri. Yeah, also lived in Muriel St.
Nidri. She also had blonde hair. 3

(36:26):
houses from a corner, light postout the front.
Drove a similar 4 wheel drive. Had three children.
Who was school aged? Yep, Yep.
OK. So there's lots and lots of
similarities. Similarities.
Yep. Two women.
Yep. Carmel's husband, Peter Kipri.
He's a really interesting character.

(36:50):
So Peter Kipri was involved in drugs in the underworld.
He had a very unlikable person. Yeah.
Not the nice, not the nicest person in in the room.
No, he pulled off some kind of $200,000 insurance fraud.

(37:12):
Yeah. With a With a man.
With a man by the name of PhilipPeters.
Also known as. How could this?
Mr. Laundry because he could clean millions of underbelly
money. So this guy was an ex solicitor
by the way, and he's like somehow found himself into the

(37:33):
underworld. He's a lawyer.
He's a lawyer. At this stage, like, you know,
like while he's doing this, he'sa lawyer, OK?
Oh yeah, yeah, maybe just now he's an ex lawyer.
Now, because after all this, yeah, like he had to be knocked
off the bar. So the way that I understand it,
it's quite a complicated story, but I think Philip Peters has

(37:54):
basically commissioned the deathat some point, the death of
Peter Kipra, yes, he that did not happen well.
Yeah, so Peter Kipri, I know he got a tip off that it was
happening via the police. There was 'cause obviously the
cops onto a fair bit of all thisstuff at the time and he's,
they've actually been able to infiltrate and stop the hit

(38:16):
happening. Yeah.
So Peter has survived it. However Mr. Laundry ended up in
I think it was 1994. April 1994, he was arrested and
charged with conspiracy to murder and obviously because him
being a lawyer, pretty nifty bargaining.
He did some good play work, and he ended up being released from

(38:40):
jail in 1997, mere months beforeJane Thurgood Dove was murdered.
That's it. So the inference now is that you
know Peters has. So Peters has consulted with
another man named John who was an ex butcher.
Now this is not Jane's dad. Well, he was hired so that he

(39:07):
could butcher people and get ridof bodies that didn't.
That ended up not working, obviously.
This is then when Peters has gone to prison.
Yeah. Peters has come out of prison.
Yeah. And he's like.
Whilst in prison, Oh yes, he made some connections with some
pretty heavy criminals in jail, one being a particular Geelong

(39:31):
bikie. Just put that under your hat for
the moment. So we'll come back around to
Geelong Bikies. We will carefully.
So the basically they've decided, well, we can't go after
Peter Kipri because everyone's looking out.
Yeah, everyone's looking out forhim and whatever.
So they've decided to put a hit out on his wife, Carmel.

(39:53):
Well, that's yeah. So this is what we everyone's
making an assumption of it that yeah, at the point, like, yeah,
yeah, yeah. But there's no proof of it.
No evidence. No.
Like, so. And they still don't know.
OK, Maybe that's what Philip Peters did, Mr. Laundry.
But who are the people who actually committed the crime?

(40:14):
Like itself, as much as I probably hold him more
accountable than anyone, but there's in there.
But there's actually people who committed it.
Well, they know he didn't pull the tree.
No he doesn't. The physical description.
He had another aim. Someone.
Yep, which comes back to good old Tuppence and his info being
pretty accurate. Other than the fact that it
wasn't Mark, it wasn't the husband that was putting the hit

(40:35):
out, which I mean, God, who knows Hitman.
Not exactly the most intelligentpeople.
Well. Clearly we had no idea who this
guy was that was actually askinghim to do this job.
And I don't know where he even got the name Mark.
I mean, we've probably got Mark at that point out in the media
because the fact was it was the wrong woman.
And if they he and all the information they were given
apparently from this Peter Mr. Laundry was three houses down

(41:01):
from the corner. The blonde haired woman who
drives 3/4 wheel drive. So I saw something that they
were actually following Jane forfour days before they murdered
her. So that was the thing like that,
that in their investigation theyfound out that because obviously
there we should go back a littlebit, that that that car that was
parked at the bottom of her driveway that the shooter got in

(41:22):
and drove off in was later foundburnt out, unfortunately, which
meant there was no evidence in it.
So these guys knew what they were doing in that sense.
So that was that made it a little bit more like this is a
bit of a professional hit in some ways, as much as a hit can
be professional because they aren't the sharpest tools in the
shed usually. So.
But the neighbors had were able to say, we've seen that car like

(41:44):
that blue Holden Commodore that you've shown us on the news now,
all those sorts of things that was here a few days ago.
I saw it parked down that end ofthe road on that day and I've
seen it parked there on that day.
So it was kind of coming together a bit of like this was
she was being surveilled. Yeah, you know, in some way.
So the. Police also, you know, this
added to the fact that it was a professional hit in terms of the

(42:05):
car, that car, because it had actually been stolen like six
months prior. Yeah.
And hidden somewhere, Yeah. So that there wasn't people
weren't actively out looking forit.
And so that also goes to potentially gangland type people
who knew what they were doing, at least 12° sort of knew what
they were doing. Yeah.

(42:26):
But if we circle back around to 2001 when the $1,000,000 reward
was being so John McGill, who was he was very determined that
he wanted to, he wanted to find out who did this.
And I think with the overhangingof this of like, was this a
mistaken identity situation? Was is there something that was
wrong here? And he wanted to know what
happened to his daughter. So him and a few people got

(42:47):
together. So they that wanted answers on
their own children's missing andmurdered cases.
So there was George and Christina Helvigas, whose
daughter Messina was killed at Faulkner, who was called at the
Faulkner Cemetery in October 1997.
Roger and Joy Memory, whose daughter Elizabeth disappeared

(43:07):
from Ringwood, which is not far from us, her unit in Ringwood in
1994. So the six parents who'd all
lost daughters in terrible situations decided to come
together and approach the government and ask for these,
this $1,000,000 reward to get some answers on these cases.
So at the time we had Premier Steve Brax.

(43:28):
We can. Yeah.
Anyways, so he, to his credit, many people didn't want to do
this. But to his credit, he decided to
put the money up so. So this was specifically a
reward, Yes. For information relating to an
arrest or progression of a case.Yeah.
Where it was a seemingly random attack on a victim.

(43:51):
Yeah. We will do a an episode about
Messina Hel Vargas because that's a really interesting
case. And the.
The perpetrator. Oh, my God.
I mean, there's so much out there about it.
Yeah. The $1 million reward, once it
was posted, basically within 48 hours, the names of the two

(44:12):
people were in the, you know, Crime Stoppers had been
contacted in the names of the two people who were involved in
Jane's death. Yeah.
Were told to the police, Yeah. So criminals are obviously, you
know, they're, they're tight until you offer a $1 million
reward. Yeah.
Just really quickly. Yeah.

(44:34):
Previous to this, there was a reward for Jane's.
Sorry, you know, in, in relationto Jane's case of $100,000.
Yeah. Messina Helvargus, her parents,
so they're of Greek descent. And there was a $50,000 reward
out for her, you know, for information relating to her
case. And her dad came out and said

(44:55):
when Jane's $100,000 reward was announced, he came out and said,
what, So a blonde Australian woman is worth twice the amount
of my Greek daughter. And that is actually how John
McGill and I can't remember Messina's dad's name, but how
that's how they sort of connected and George, George,

(45:17):
and that's how they sort of got together and started lobbying
the government for this $1 million reward.
So. Put on them, yeah, I mean, yeah,
he really though they did a lot to get that over the line and
but rightly so. And as you say, the tips came in
very quickly for all three of those cases.
Both the other two cases were solved.

(45:38):
Yep. Very, very quickly now for Jane
Thurgood, Dove tips came in realquick.
Within 30 minutes, they got a tip that they would they carried
on that they followed up that was gave them brilliant
information. However, to this day it still
remains unsolved. So that great tip came from a
crook who rang in and what Ron did was because basically this

(46:01):
moon dollar reward was there. He was like, I don't want to get
false information. And this guy was pretty high up
in things. So he offered him 10 grand First
off to meet up and then to straight up give him 10 grand
when they arrived when he arrived.
So Can you imagine this cop likerocking up with his water cash
like to hand over to him and he said, if the information you
give me checks out, I'll follow up with a Fort with 40 grand.

(46:24):
So he heads down to meet this crook down in Eastern Beach,
right. And so he's in his car and he
does love this quote from from from Ron Idols.
He goes, I was shitting myself. That's a technical term for
being very nervous. And I love the fact that he's so

(46:45):
honest about the fact that he's full on crooks and he's not he's
not in their world like as much as he is, but he isn't he's not
one of them, but he he carries himself with them.
So he. He you look at Ronnie, you think
he's this big gruff, you know, brave man.
Yeah, of course you'd be shooting yourself.
He's a teddy bear, let's be honest.
He's such a lovely man. Yeah, So I love that.

(47:06):
So this is where it was confirmed by.
Well, not confirmed by this guy yet.
So he told him the story of thatit's mistaken identity and
everything and things that he'd already heard.
So again, Ron wanted to really check this information,
obviously again. And because he got a fair bit
more information about who thesecharacters were that were
involved, he then went down to Barwon Prison and spoke to yet
yet another really badass person.

(47:28):
But at least he's behind bars and not in the same car as him
handing cash over. Good point.
Yeah, I feel that would be a lotmore safe.
And this guy in Barwon Prison confirmed everything this guy
said, but he wasn't just able todescribe these people.
He also, well, sorry, he did thesame.
They gave the exact same names as well involved.
So the Potbelly killer, he was nominated as a former Rebels

(47:53):
Motorcycle Club bikie by the name of Stephen John Morty.
So he was also in photos and things like they showed
witnesses, people were able to identify.
That's the guy. Yeah.
So that that that witness that Iwas talking about, the neighbour
who was standing across the road.
Yeah. He picked Morty out of a lineup.

(48:14):
Yeah. A.
Photograph, photograph out because I was fortunately at
this point in time. So this is 2003?
Yes, in 2001 Morty died so he drug.
Overdose. And well, yeah, OK, sorry, I'll
get a little bit more into him. So I was looking up some biky
websites. God, your browser history, Our

(48:35):
browser history said like, not crash.
Yeah, totally. Don't go looking at mine.
Sorry. This is I'm sorry, but because I
have no sympathy for this man, so I'm just going to go into it.
All right, so. Yeah, go.
So Morty complained that he was not feeling very well, but he
ate a cherry ripe and some ice cream before vomiting and still
managed after that to finish off2 bottles of coke.

(48:57):
Healthy man, pot bellied. I believe the next morning his
housemate didn't go into his room because he was he liked to
sleep in and stuff, so he didn'tcheck on him at all.
But about 2:50 in the afternoon,the housemate went in to check
on him and found that he had no pulse.
So they believe that he, yeah, there was drugs in his system,

(49:22):
but it was more likely cardiac arrest, which could have been
caused by the drugs potentially,but also could have been just
generally his lifestyle in general.
I think, I think that's right. They, I know the level of drugs.
It was heroin at the level that they found in his system was not
compatible with life. So, yeah, whatever way that all

(49:44):
came about, yeah. Yeah, I love it.
Cherry ripens some ice cream. And two bottles of Coke when he
wasn't feeling good. Although last night, OK, so we
were talking before about how Ollie had had this operation
yesterday and I was so tired. I didn't sleep the the night
before. Yeah.
Last night we had dinner and then after dinner I was like, I
really feel like eating something sweet.
I was so tired. But, you know, I just needed a

(50:06):
sugar. Yeah.
So I ate ice cream, a chocolate bar, and then I raided the kids
Halloween lollies. And by the end, by the time it
was time to go to bed, I was like vibing on another level.
And I woke up. I actually woke up this morning
feeling so yuck because I think I just had so much sugar.
Hangover. Sugar Hangover.

(50:27):
It wasn't even an alcohol hangover.
How annoying do you? Cheers anyway.
So look, what I'm saying is I can understand the mode of
sometimes you just need something sweet and nothing.
Nothing. When I'm going to vomit like I'm
feeling mad. I'm like, oh, I don't roll set
on my stomach, cherry ripen someice cream and then some coke.
Wash it down with a couple of bottles of cake.
Oh, no, God, no. I just love that they've put

(50:50):
that out there. That's what the roommate I had
to say about his bikie mate, Yeah.
What else could you say? Really.
Oh God, yeah. So it.
Wasn't enough standing bloke, You know that you if you've got
nothing else nice to say this. Is it, I mean, so again, so
we've got this guy who he's beenidentified by witness, all that
sort of stuff, like potentially you could go to court and you
could arrest him for that. He's dead, unfortunately, so we

(51:11):
can't go any further with him. The next one on the list was the
man who would organize the car. So as you said that that Holden
Commodore that was in the the driveway etcetera had been
collected earlier. That was well, it was organized.
It wasn't just a pinched a car drove around the street.
It was organized by someone who knew what they were doing.

(51:33):
And this guy was named as James Ann Reynolds.
So name is also known as Jamie. I believe, yeah.
Jamie Reynolds? Yep.
So Reynolds was he. He was the one who obviously.
He was the getaway driver. He was the no, no, he wasn't the
getaway driver. No.
So he was actually the guy who, well, somewhat getaway driver.
So he actually, he organised thecars.

(51:54):
And so there was a getaway driver separate to this guy in
the car at the bottom of the driveway who drove off with
Morty. Jamie met them where they burnt
the car out. Yeah, with a with a second car.
Yeah. So that makes we've got three
people who are being named here.Well, one not being named, but
two being named and the third involved where so he's collected

(52:16):
them from the burn burnt out carto take them elsewhere again.
But so that was his role in thisapparently, allegedly.
So Ron was very keen to speak tothis Jamie.
He was still around at this point, obviously wanting to
speak to speak to him and get a bit more information.
Unfortunately, Ron went to go and get resources to be able to

(52:38):
like look into this guy more. They needed to know who he was
and what was going on with him to be and then approach, just
sort of just walk up at the guy's doorstep.
You don't need to have a bit of a team around you to go, right?
Who is he? What is he doing?
What are we gonna talk to him about?
And some information to kind of add weight to what you're to
what you're then gonna accuse. Absolutely.
So there's a bit more to it thanjust knocking on a door.
But unfortunately Ron was declined any resources because

(53:01):
the Piranha Task Force, which aswe've said, we will go into the
underbelly world of Melbourne ina series I think.
But the Piranha Task Force of what was looking at taking down
the underbelly world in Melbourne, very well known in
Melbourne in terms of that. So we unfortunately there was no
resources available to him because they were all being used
on this Piranha Task Force. Now what?
How do you feel about that? Yeah, I'm really disappointed in

(53:23):
that because I feel like that weshould, and I understand it,
like it becomes a resource issuein terms of money as well.
And like we've got enough cops. And at that time we needed lots
of cops because there was a lot going on in Melbourne in that
situation that surely some, someone could have been found to
be given to Ron to follow this up.
I think so. I think, you know, the gangland

(53:45):
war was being fought amongst gangsters.
Yeah, I know there were certain situations where there was
collateral damage of innocent civilians, but on the whole they
were just murdering each other. Yeah, which you know.
Which, fuck, whatever. Well, no, to be fair, whatever,
because you deal you. You deal in that.
That's it. That's what's gonna happen to
you potentially, but then not tothrow resources into the

(54:09):
investigation of a a brutal murder in front of her children,
innocent of an innocent woman. I think that's disgusting.
Why are we allocating resources away?
I understand we needed resourcesto curb investigate and and curb
the gangland wars that were happening in Melbourne.
And, and it was intense. You know, this is in our living

(54:30):
memory. We we remember what it was like.
Yeah. But that's not to say that
resources then shouldn't also beput into investigating murders
of innocent people. I I I the fact that that was the
reason used, I guess the take. Infuriates me this has been this
many years, what's another few months gonna what gonna change?

(54:51):
But they had it was. So wrong in that but.
That pisses me off even more because they had intelligence.
They knew what they were lookingfor.
It's not like they were investigating a completely cold
case that they had no new leads on.
They had leads, they had people,they knew names, they knew what
they wanted to find out. It wasn't like they probably
only needed a few months worth of surveillance, or maybe not

(55:13):
even that, I don't know. It's so it's so frustrating.
And then to add to that frustration, seven months later,
he finally gets the resources heneeds to go and chase this up.
And what happened? And dies.
He died so. Around in a boating accident.
Yeah, because he's a fuck wit out near Queens Cliff.
Yeah. Barlins.

(55:33):
Yeah. So apparently Ron had gone to
John and Helen McGill, Jane's parents the a few weeks before
and said, oh, finally we've got the resources.
We're able to, you know, we're able to investigate him.
I'm on leave for the next coupleof weeks.
As soon as I get back. That is my number one thing.
We're on it. I'm going to get him.
Yeah, wrong. Goes on his leave, which he's
well and truly entitled to. I'm not even saying that's

(55:55):
anything. He comes back and finds out that
within that two weeks he died. Yeah.
Oh God. Like in a boating accident.
Yeah, just complete. Just drown.
I'm just being a Dick. He went out in this tiny little
boat. In a tin he's.
Really like big seas, Yeah, I mean, that bow and heads is
pretty rough. Yeah, yeah, he'd gone out
through the heads like in a little tinny.

(56:16):
Tinny, like, I mean, no one elsewould have done what he did.
Like, literally. And yeah, drowned, yeah.
So that leaves us with the getaway driver.
So we've we have got a clear description of who he is of
like, look what he looks like. His name has not been released.
I do believe the name has actually, I know the name has
been given to police. So by this way of this

(56:39):
information that came to them. So he's the one that's still
remaining. They just can't get him.
So they believe that the suspectis a Geelong bikey.
So this was where the connectioncomes back to Tuppence.
Tuppence. No, sorry.
Not Tuppence. Sorry.
No. Comes back to the Morty.
The No. Peter Phillips.

(57:01):
Phillips. Right.
Peters. Sorry.
Yeah. Mr. Laundry.
Mr. Laundry. Mr. Laundry in Prison met up
with a very highly ranked Geelong bikey, so we believe
that this is how he's organized.I.
See OK, so bring it back again alittle.
Oh, so this is I love this comment too.
So the Jalong Baki who they saidhe's now nearing probably

(57:22):
retirement age. However, with his lifestyle that
he has, he doesn't work. They named him the human slug.
Just what a great. I mean, you get a really good
mentality. Question of who?
This guy is so clearly he. Yeah, yeah.
So there's him and obviously Philip Peters is still alive and

(57:45):
and this getaway driver, Yes. And they are still on the cops
radar and still looking into them.
They just haven't got any further with it, which is really
frustrating. But that's unfortunately where
we sit in terms of where things are at gone and where we're at.
Just I do, I did write down a quote which I'll go for.

(58:05):
I love it, you know, it's just, it's could anything more Aussie
have been said? So Jamie Reynolds, so the one
who died in the boating accident, a colleague of his who
has then colleague. Sorry.
Yep. Well, what are they associate?
An associate of his has has comeforward and told the cops that

(58:26):
apparently he said we got the wrong Sheila.
Oh whoops whoops whoops. See Sheila?
Oh my God, for our non Australian listeners that means
woman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh man, God
love them so yeah, because so this mistaken identity whole

(58:48):
theory, yeah, which is just so beyond shit.
If you want to look into that further, Naked City the podcast
John Sylvester I believe goes into a fair bit and I think even
Andrew rule on his. Podcast is disgusted too.
There are. Other mistaken identity cases
yes that it's not as uncommon asyou'd like to think because as

(59:11):
we said, unfortunately hitman when you when you think of a
hitman, you think of someone who's, you know, precise and you
know sneaky and and like really highly trained highly trained
something no, that's not who they are, unfortunately yeah.
These are people who are willingto just take money to go murder
someone. I mean, they're not like, you
know, high society. That's.
For sure. So there's quite a few

(59:33):
unfortunately of mistaken identity and quite horrific ones
that they go into on their podcasts, so worth a look into.
We'll put a link to, YEAH, to those episodes specifically
because I know Andrew Rule's podcast isn't named anything
along the lines of Jane Thurgood.
I can't remember what the title of the podcast is, but we will
put a link to that this specificepisode because it's really

(59:56):
worth a listen. And I just love Andrew Rule and
I love John Sylvester. They're awesome.
Yeah. They're really good and their
journalism is really fun, their writing as well as their.
Podcast, it's great. They're really awesome.
Man, they're all over it. Another really sort of, I guess
another thing to come out of this and, and was informed by
Jane's case and by a lot of other cold cases was in 2021, a

(01:00:17):
cold case homicide hub was set up.
This is an online platform in Australia and they put the
police, it's run by the police, they put cold cases in the hopes
that anyone can access it. You can just go online and
search Cold Case Homicide Hub I.Believe they like feature like

(01:00:37):
5A. Month, I think something like
that, maybe 2 a week or something like that.
Yeah. But you can go in there and read
case notes and information. There's photos of the people who
are the victims and there are somany in there now.
But you know, if you've got any information, you know, they say
to call Crime Stoppers or you can submit anonymously through

(01:01:00):
online through the hub. Yeah.
Just worth worth. If you know something you know,
even if you think it's so pointless, it may end up being
that key bit of information thatlinks something else together.
We don't know what. We don't know what you don't
know. That's.
It, yeah. So it's worth just saying it and
putting it out there and make itand then that way, you know, you
can feel better that you have, you've said it, but also that

(01:01:20):
they can do with it what needs to happen and whether that be
that's not relevant or 100% is. So yeah, yeah, yeah, totally,
absolutely. I'm sure that wherever you're
listing would have similar services, but here in Victoria,
obviously it's Crime Stoppers that you need to contact or via
that hub. Yeah, that's it.
Yeah. Unfortunately, Jane's parents,

(01:01:41):
you know, they're still out in the media.
As I said, when when this cold case.
Now I'm well and. Sure, definitely when this cold
case homicide hub was originallyestablished, they were
interviewed by the media. They, they appeared on behalf of
the police and we're saying, youknow how important it is for

(01:02:02):
information to come to light. And then they are, they're
really elderly now I. Think he was He was 83 at the
time. So, you know, Jane's mom says in
there that she doesn't want to go to her grave not knowing what
happened to Jane and not having anyone found responsible for her
death. And I think that's, you know,
that's completely reasonable. Absolutely.
Losing a child, I can't even imagine.

(01:02:26):
And to think of his kids who arenow adults.
Yeah, I mean, they were all in there well into their 30s, I
guess now. Yeah, late 20s, early 30s.
And her husband, who's, you know, had to deal with the
fallout of all of this and losing his absolutely beautiful
wife especially. With that shadow, I guess of
like, was there a fair? Was it wasn't there?
Like maybe he knew more, I don'tknow, but.

(01:02:47):
I'm with you. I'm with you on that, though.
I really, I think it was very much one sided.
I don't, we don't know. Nobody knows what happens behind
closed doors. But I I think you're right.
I think we're we're on the same page with that.
Yeah, yeah. All right.
Well, I think that sort of leadsus to the end of brings us to
the end of another, another week, another episode next week.

(01:03:09):
We're kind of changing the tune a little bit.
We're going to be talking about the Ashley Madison scandal.
Scandal saga. Yeah, that's fascinating.
And there's a lot of facets to this one.
Yeah, so much actually. Actually, this could be a big
week of research. I think it will be myself.
Yeah. What have we done to us?

(01:03:30):
I don't. Know what have we done to?
Us now just really quickly, I wanted to also mention our last
episode of this year. We are putting it out there to
our listeners to vote on what they would like.
So if there's a if there is a anepisode you would like us or a
case that you would like us to cover DMS on Instagram, contact
us through our e-mail, which is 2 crimebesties@gmail.com.

(01:03:54):
We I've had a few suggestions. Has anyone approached you or I?
I've had a couple come through online and then I had a
colleague of mine at work suggest a case as.
Well, a couple of suggestions ofsort of, yeah, friends around
the trap of cool listing. OK, so yeah, but no, I'd, we'd
love to get some more, throw them out there, Yeah.
And the most popular one will win.
That's the case we'll cover for our last episode of 2024.

(01:04:15):
For sure. That's oh God, that'll be
interesting. What's what do we?
Oh. What's everyone into?
Yeah. All right.
Drop us a line everyone for. Sure, and don't forget to, if
you would like to, you can buy us a coffee at Buy Me a Coffee
forwardslash.com/two Crime Besties.
I'll get it right. I'll put it in the show notes
anyway. So click down there if you want
to buy a coffee. Thank you and jump on the

(01:04:35):
socials and chat. Cheers.
Thanks everybody. See you next time.
Stay curious, crime besties. Bye.

All Episodes

Episode 24 - Jane Thurgood-Dove

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

24/7 News: The Latest

Dateline NBC

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 24 - Jane Thurgood-Dove