The Lines We Draw: Exploring Trust and Betrayal

We explore the complex boundaries of forgiveness and trust in relationships while examining whether people can truly change after betrayal or deception.

• Can someone truly change their behavior after cheating or is it just better control?
• Distinguishing between accidental infidelity and deliberate, premeditated cheating
• Why we might forgive physical betrayal more easily than financial betrayal
• The psychology behind stealing luxury items versus necessities
• Gender differences in handling pressure and leadership roles
• Parenting approaches that balance discipline with incentives
• The distinction between spirituality and religion - can they exist separately?
• How our upbringing influences our capacity for forgiveness and boundary-setting

We'll be back next week with another episode. Follow us on social media @TwoForTheCulture and leave us your thoughts on today's discussion.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
And we are back with another episode of Two for the
Culture.
I'm Justin Devante.
I'm Steven.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Ray.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Yes sir, and we are back how?

Speaker 2 (00:09):
you doing?
Doing well, doing well.
I feel like we've been settingup for the past hour.
We didn't say a word to eachother.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
I just had to work on a couple of things real quick,
really.
Just for Fantasy League I hadto set up the payments and stuff
because I'm the commissioner,uh, so yeah, so I just have to
set up payments and just makesure everybody got it, so it can
be off my back you know, Istill don't even know what a
parlay is okay, so that's justuh, it's, I can explain to you
very easily yeah so you justhave one bet and you combine it

(00:40):
with another bet, okay, and sothat's a parlay.
So for, for example, say forbasketball terms, you can bet
LeBron James scores over 30points, and so that's one bet.
And then you would say LeBronJames scores or not scores, gets
11 rebounds, and so that'sanother bet and you combine it

(01:04):
and those two bets into one andthat if they.
If he does both of those things,that increases a higher payment
because those odds are moremore riskier on one bet than if
you do it separately, but theodds of you winning it are less
likely because you have to winboth bets to win at the same
time?

Speaker 2 (01:23):
yeah, exactly, so what if you just win?

Speaker 1 (01:24):
one, then you, you then you lose your money.
Damn yeah, but if you win both,you make more money than if you
were to do them separately gotyou all right, so football just
started exactly, yep, okay, yeah, I did see tate post something
about the broncos yeah, yeah,yeah.
So they, they won.
They didn't look very gooddoing it.
Who?

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Russell Wilson play for.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
He plays for the New York Giants.
That's what made you ask aboutRussell.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
I just thought he still played for them.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
For the Broncos.
Yeah, that's not too far off,even though he played for
another team last year.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Two years ago.
Yeah, exactly, I ain't too faroff, even though he played for
another team last year.
Okay, so it was like two yearsago.
Yeah, exactly, all right, yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
I ain't too far off.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, you ain't, but I think we do have a good
discussion on today.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
I hate to skip past our weekends, but I feel like it
wasn't much going on, I ain'tdoing shit, Same work and
driving Same house same house.
Worked yeah, worked regular dayjob and then drove afterwards
yeah, so I have.
I think it was things that webrushed up on lightly that I
want to go a little bit in depthon.
Yeah, so I think it will be areally, really fun discussion

(02:33):
for us All.
Right, so do you feel likesomebody can truly change?
By the way, these are questions.
That's going to lead me intowhere I really want to go
Something else, okay.
Do you feel like somebody cantruly change?
Yes?

Speaker 2 (02:56):
I feel like somebody can have more control.
Okay, if that makes sense.
Understood, you know what I'msaying.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
It's a very vague answer.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, Excuse me question.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Uh-huh, and I feel like that one is a yes for me.
Just because we're going togrow and mature, we're going to
be different people.
We can change, for the betteror worse.
Yeah, you're not going to bethe same person.
You are at 18.
You're just going to be moretraumatized, okay.
So do you agree?

Speaker 2 (03:26):
yes, yes, yeah, when you put time into the equation
okay.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
So my next point is do you, can you forgive somebody
who cheats?
Ultimately, this, is it reallya more discussion, uh, on change
and forgiveness andunderstanding?
What are our limits in betweenthat?
Okay, so I just wanted to kindof set the foundation.

(03:53):
All right, can you forgivesomebody who cheats?
Uh, yes okay uh-huh, okay, so Ithink we both agree that
there's boundaries on that,right yeah?

Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
So if multiple partners like if you cheat on me
twice, that's clearly different.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, yeah, it's not a one and done.
Yeah, there is just apossibility of me forgiving that
.
I think, I think I believe.
So yeah, I've done it before,okay.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
So if she was to cheat again, what if it happened
two years later?
I can't do that.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Because then what it was going to happen two or four
years later after that, okay.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
That's a big boundary it's not like you.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
You know, stepped on my foot or some shit.
Like you, you, another man wasinside you.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah okay, twice.
I understand.
I'm glad you brought up thatpoint, even though that's an
obvious one yeah yeah, so italso.
So it depends on how many timesit happens, and so, but you, we
both agree.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
I think there's a yeah, there's there.
There's some type of, I believe.
So I don't know, I've neverbeen with a woman for a long
time after someone cheated on me.
So I don't have the experienceof a woman cheated on me and
then I was with her for likefour years after.
So I don't have the experienceof a woman cheated on me and
then I was with her for likefour years after that.
I don't have that experience.

(05:28):
So I'm just going off of ahypothetical.
I think there is a world wherethat could possibly be true.
I mean, I'm giving, I'm givingthe situation grace, because
I've never been in it and Idon't know what I would do if I
was in it, but I think it's apossibility, okay.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
So I can set up some hypotheticals for you.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
The first one was a deliberate act Like I am going
to have sexual expression.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
I can't do that Okay.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah, I couldn't do that.
So what are some of the limitsto where you can?

Speaker 2 (06:08):
forget.
Then If it's like a situationof Again, I haven't been in
these situations so I could seeme.
That's too blatant, that's waytoo blatant.
That's way too blatant.
That's like, if I read themessages, daddy, I'm on the way,
dog, like I got to move on fromthat.

(06:32):
That's way too like you'reinvested, you know, in the
cheating.
I don't think I can that, Idon't think I could just like
forgive, like that.
But, if there's a situation ofthe common shit.
You hear you at a party, boom,everybody drinking.
Now you're drunk, now some onething that you woke up you don't

(06:56):
even remember the night, andthen now you cheated on me.
You know that sucks, but like Ican deal with that way, more
than how you going to hit thispussy when I get there.
You know what I'm saying.
Like I don't, I don't, I can't,I can't get over that one.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Uh, yeah, yeah, I hear you that's.
That's definitely a lot.
It's very tough to yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah and yeah, and I'm I'm kind of with you, yeah.
So do you think that person whodeliberately act about what you
said, like giving the hey daddytext while in a relationship,
can that person change from that?
I believe so if they're 30years old so when did they do?
It oh, um.

(07:41):
No, I'm saying they're 30 yearold and they cheated oh, oh,
you're saying yeah.
Like I'm not even saying likeage, why, well, I did put an age
on it, but in terms of like 10years, now they're 40.
I'm saying, in the next coupleof years, do you?
See that person changing yeahFrom that?
I think it's possible.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Ok, I think it's possible.
It just depends on it dependson them.
You know, that's that's blatant, though.
So like that makes me feel likeyou're far too gone into that
reality, versus like you justlike slipped up.
So that would take a lot.
I I don't know if it would be acouple years, but I mean at the

(08:21):
same time, I'm not sure.
I I think I think things alsodepend on karma and consequences
.
So if, let's say, if me and herwere married or some shit, and
I'm paying for your business andthis and that and you do that
and I just pull everything out,now you're you're, your life is
fucked, you might learn fromthat a little bit more, you know

(08:43):
.
But if nothing happened to youand you just you know, we just
broke up and you get to dowhatever, I don't see people
changing like that.
So I, I think that's acase-by-case basis of that I
understand.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, I, I can see where you're coming from yeah,
would you.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
What do you think?

Speaker 1 (09:02):
um, that it'll be hard for me to it.
So ultimately, agree aboutconsequences it.
When you have consequences, Imean like yeah, you go into
prison yeah yeah, there's gonnabe people who's like, bro, I
ain't never coming back.
And there's gonna be somepeople like once I get back out
of there, I'm going 10 timesharder.

(09:22):
Yeah yeah, so I understandexactly what you mean.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
I saw a post.
I saw a post, but this shit waslike last month.
It's this one influencer andhe's in jail and he's one of
them niggas with phones in jail.
And then that man tweeted.
I mean, he posted on his storywith a caption on it saying I'm
going to just apologize nowbefore I get out.
Story with a caption on itsaying I'm gonna just apologize

(09:47):
now before I get out, and I'mjust like dog, what are you
doing, bro?
You know, yeah, and it wasfunny because, like, uh, weeks
before then his posts were youknow, I'm reading the book, I'm
reading the bible, I'm doingthis that you know, we just got
to be better people.
And then one day I read thatshit.
I'm gonna just apologize nowfor when I get out, because it's
up yeah, yeah, yeah, and thatthat's.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
That's wild to say yeah on a, you know, a public
format saying, hey, I am not ona public port yeah, it's like
saying I'm not even, I'm not,don't regret anything, anything
yeah of what I did yeah, so hesounded like he should stay in
there, but I don't know what.
What he?

Speaker 2 (10:25):
did to get in there.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
It could have been like you know, and then he could
be referring to somebody.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
You know, like I'm going hard on these hoes, you
know yeah, it could have been,yeah, but it doesn't sound like
that, don't sound like it yeah,he's going back.
Yeah, he's definitely goingback, yeah, um but yeah, I just
said that you, I agree with you.
There are different type ofpeople the ones who are like I
can't wait to get out of hereand just change my life.
And then there's the other onesthat's like I'm going to get
that nigga, yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, yeah.
So it's just hard for me toreally, if you're that blatant,
seeing you change in general,because I think consequences do
matter, but I feel like breakingmy heart is shit.
Make you feel away like you,just like, hey, I don't care,
you know that shit don't bedoing that for them yeah, that's

(11:12):
a character trait oh god, youdon't feel bad on god, and so
I'm with you to a certain degreeit's like how?
How do you reflect when youdon't care?
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
And nothing happens to you.
A part of me feels like that'snarcissism.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
And that's deliberate work you got to do on yourself.
It's not just a time thing towhere hey, I'm rock bottom.
Yeah, Rock bottom doesn't feellike it heals a narcissist.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
You got to want that in you yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, so, and that's kind of where I'm at with this.
So there's degrees of changingones.
If you're not self-reflecting,then I'm not.
I'm not gonna be with you onthat journey regardless yeah and
definitely deliberate.
It's like I've even I said lastpodcast, I'm so easy going when

(12:00):
it comes to like situations ofboundaries, like I feel like my
boundary limit is fairly hot,consider to the average man.
So I'm just wondering like whycouldn't this be a conversation?

Speaker 3 (12:13):
yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
So if you're yeah, so that's kind of where I'm living
in that world, like myboundaries are way too high and
you went over that.
How you do that right like likeyou.
You're not good at this inrelationships how you do that.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah, yeah so okay.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
So now I feel like where we may agree is we talked
about forgiveness and cheatingand at one time, if you so
happen to be drunk, so what ifshe so happened to be drunk with
one of your best friends?

Speaker 2 (12:52):
I ain't forgiving that shit.
Fuck both of them.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, but it was just they were drunk and they didn't
remember and something happened.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
Nah, nah, nah, hell, no, what I remember I remember
Damn remember, damn no, it wasthis one time one of my homies.
He called one of the girls Iwas talking to fine and I was

(13:18):
even.
If she is fine or pretty orwhatever, it's just like why you
do that shit.
You know like you.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
You know the side eyes there um, what if he hit
you with the?

Speaker 2 (13:37):
with all due respect, with that manner, like without
due respect.
Your girlfriend is fine forsome reason.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
That just did a lot okay I'm just saying like if he
was the framework, like thatyeah, or if he came to me or
something I'm saying I heardfrom her.
Oh, I didn't hear nothing fromhim.
Okay, I thought you saying inconversation.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yeah, no, no, like she came back to me, she was
like you know well, I Can't saylike the full thing, but like
she just basically said that.
Because it's gonna be veryobvious of like, who I'm talking
about, but um, or the timeframe and stuff.
But that did happen one timewhere I'm just like, okay, but

(14:11):
people are different.
You know, I'm saying people aredifferent.
I got friends who um like, if Ibreak up with a girl, they'll
keep like liking their posts,and I just like nigga, what are
you doing?
yeah yeah, but like at the sametime, people aren't me right you
know what I'm saying.
So and I I know like I surroundmyself with people with like
pure hearts and like that, soright.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
What if the post is not like her feeding the
homeless?
Like?
What if it's like one of?
Those is it like any posts, oris it like?

Speaker 2 (14:39):
any any okay, yeah, no, it ain't like it ain't like
that.
But, um, yeah, just like, somepeople just move a little
differently.
But yeah, if I found out thatmy girl and my homie got drunk
and all that, that's gonnathat'll, that'll, that'll mess
me up a little bit, like ingeneral, even after I'm done

(15:00):
with them, like that's that,that'll probably scar me for
real in different situations.
Do you think that if thathappened to you, like how would
you, can you see yourself movingon from that situation?
In terms of every time you havea girl now and who you bring
her around, do you think youcould ever just let that go?

Speaker 1 (15:22):
I try to treat everybody as their own
individual, and so, yeah, Ithink so I wouldn't be like Brad
.
She can't come around.
None of my homies, no more,ever.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
I'm saying so, you a keeper.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
I'm talking about any girl I bring around.
I'm saying that too, oh, if shedid that and it got to depend
on the homie, you know what Imean.
Like is it somebody that I knowis?
You know how close am I?
You know like maybe this is abad example, but my mom didn't

(16:00):
treat us all the same.
Maybe this is a bad example,but my mom didn't treat us all
the same.
So if my brother was strugglingin a class that I'm in two
years later, I'm in that class.
She's not going to hold me tothat same standard she held my
brother to.
So that's kind of how I live alittle bit.

(16:22):
It's like I'm not going to holdevery friend to that same
standard.
It's going to be slightlydifferent.
So the the lady I'm probablygoing to break up with because,
like, come on now but the yeah,it's like what's your own, what
I don't know like friendship isharder.
It's weird because friendshipsare, for me, harder to break

(16:44):
that bond.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
If they both got drunk together, that's a
decision on both of them.
Yeah, I mean how you worded it.
It seems like it's a decisionon both of them to sit down and
after a little bit of drinks youstart to feel it.
There's got to be somewhere ina guy's mind like, oh, this is

(17:09):
like my homie's girl, likebefore it gets to the point of I
don't know what I'm doinganymore, I I would feel like
it's somewhere in there that itwould.
It would hit them.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, yeah, how did this person move?
Because we all you know and I'mspeaking on a different friend
that may you're coming to yourmind- but we may have a friend
that have maybe talked to yourex, or like like I'm.
You know I'm speaking on adifferent friend that may come
to your mind, but you may have afriend that have maybe talked
to your ex.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
And.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
I'm speaking on a different person than who you
have in mind.
Yeah, because I've had friendsdo that in general, so I know
that hearing it from them on myside, so you feel like a little
weird in a way, but it's likeall right, I know him as a
womanizer.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Oh, uh-huh.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, so I can see that happening from him and yeah
, we won't be like blood anymore.
Yeah, but I could beassociative with you, yeah.
But for her it's a no-no.
Yeah, you gave up the ultimate.
You know that's the ultimateloyalty test.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
I feel like it's more for the homie.
They damn near on the samelevel.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, I'm with you.
That's why I'm saying itdepends on the friend.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
So that's just for me personally, yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
If you get drunk with my girless and it's over.
Yeah, I mean yeah, yeah,anybody.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, what the hell no I think I uh,
yeah, I take my pride on that,you know like that's something I
thought that was like normal.
Yeah, I mean yeah yeah, and andI like, and I'm sure I'm gonna
be mad, but I'm just how I'mthinking it out in my in my mind
that there's a way to come back, because I we've had similar.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
Oh, a way to come back.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
Because I've had similar situations like that,
yeah, like to where one of myfriends tried to holler at my
girlfriend.
And they were actually in arelationship and I ultimately
forgave him for it, oh yeah.
So, yeah, yeah, and our bondisn't as strong as it used to be
.
But I Our bond isn't as strongas it used to be, but I wish him

(19:06):
well.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
I'll text him happy birthday.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
You know, check him up and really want him to do
well.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
So, I agree with you, sir, yeah, but I think that,
just like decency as a woman,you giving yourself up like that
to my friend is like come onnow, and this is supposed to be
marriage, Like I'm not marriedto my friends.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
I'm not saying to God , you know, oh, for a lifetime,
right, yeah, and I'm obligatedto do, you know, for sick and
poor.
I don't have that with myfriends, yeah, yeah.
So that means that my degree isa lot higher of trust.
Yeah, it goes a lot further ifI'm making sense.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, especially when you bring marriage into it.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah, so at this point, why am I in a
relationship if my goal isn't tobe married with you?
Oh, okay, wasn't why there'sjust too many willing people to,
or there's too many singlewomen out here to just start
like clinging on somebody who'sdisloyal it just doesn't really
make sense for me.
Yeah, but friendships are.

(20:15):
I feel like friendships areharder to find nowadays I think
so when I look at other people.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
When I look at other people and they talk about how
many friends they have and stuff, uh, um, and I compare it to
myself, not necessarily why I'mspeaking to them, but I do see
that even what I have is prettyrare to like talk to somebody

(20:46):
for like 20 plus years and havea group of them.

Speaker 3 (20:51):
Yeah, I don't really hear that too much it's also a
little red flag to me too.
What if you?

Speaker 2 (20:57):
if you can't do that, okay yeah you don't have like a
, at least like one or two.
That's to me that's like a redflag.
Like you can't hold on to,everything at your friends fault
you know, so, or yourdiscernment of picking friends.
Something's wrong there yeah, Iagree.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Okay.
So this one is kind of it'sstill in a relationship, but I
feel like we you're gonna have adifferent answer than than what
you just had, how we waswilling to forgive that one time
.
What about if your girlfriendsteals from you and she doesn't?
It's not like even the cheating.
She didn't tell you, but youjust found out that she stole

(21:43):
from you like she took a hundreddollars out of your.
She didn't tell you, but youjust found out that she stole
from you Like she took $100 outof your wallet and didn't tell
you and had no intentions.
It was like ill intent.
I wanted that.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Damn.
No, I can't stay.
Okay, I can't forget it,because that's the tip of the
iceberg.
That's what it looks like to me.
There's a tip of the iceberg.
That's what it looks like to me.
There's a tip of the iceberg.
How would you feel?
Because I know you're like.
You be working, working, you beUbering this boom,
da-da-da-da-da-da, and then agirl just stole.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah, I mean that's trifling Like, because it was
really another reflection.
Now it's like more simple thanwhat it sounds, Because really
the conversation is like how arewe willing to forgive with
having sex with another partner?

Speaker 2 (22:25):
but we're willing, we're, we have a straight line
with stealing, like taking ahundred dollars.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yeah, yeah, a one-time hundred dollars, right,
right because I mean if yeah,even though that's one time like
we can have a like, a um athing to where it's like where I
watched another movie or youknow, technically you stole that
.
Uh-huh yeah so we have smalllines of thievery that we can

(22:51):
live within.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
So them taking something from you is like a
hard line.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
That's disrespect.
Okay, yeah, that's like nigga,like that's, I don't know.
That's a what's she like?
Nigga, like that that's, Idon't know.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
That's a what's she like.
I used it to pay for bills.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
If you said it like that, I'm still hating.
I use it to pay.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
Oh yeah, that's the line they're going to go with
anyway.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
What bill you know?
They don't.
Hmm, I don't know.
Even if she did do that, I meanI could see us having a
conversation or whatever, if itwas like a bill thing.
But I doubt it yeah, like if shejust if she actually just stole

(23:40):
that shit.
That's a lot, like we weresaying earlier, it's more like a
character thing, like why wouldyou do that?
Because in relationships itfeels like that best friend
factor is like the foundationreally, or like that's the shit
that keeps it together for real,or one of the main pillars for

(24:09):
real, um, or one of the mainpillars.
So you know, when you do thatit just kind of like messes up a
lot.
You know like, yeah, like I'vebeen in relationships where the
best friend thing like I, Idon't like even us like there's
certain things you you probablyknow just second nature.
I would just never do just offof the the you know, the
friendship, so certain thingswhen it comes to that, yeah, I

(24:31):
don't see me like moving pastthat, because then it's like
that's the found, literally thefoundation, like love and all
that is like smoking mirrors forreal, but like actually
trusting your person.
That's what holds thefoundation together.
So I doubt it okay.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
So what if she stole a Chanel bag from the store?
So it's not directly you, it'snot me, but she's, she stole
from the store yeah, baby girl,why you do that?

Speaker 2 (25:01):
why Because.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
I wanted it Because I wanted it.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
And nobody was looking.
I would tell her you got tostop doing that.
I would tell her you got tostop doing that or I can't be
with you.
But like, yeah, to me that thatI don't know.
If you keep doing that, thenyeah, I can't be with you,
because then I'm going to bemessed up out here.

(25:29):
I'm going to be walking out thestore with you and all of a
sudden, Say there's noconsequences ever to her
stealing, she just likes to doit.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
I can't do it Because my karma is great, yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
I can't be around people that will mess up my
karma is great, yeah.
So like I can't, I can't.
I can't be around people thatare like mess up my karma, even
though you know like if you dothat you get away with I don't
know how you doing it.
You should stop.
I had family members who usedto steal and stuff all the time
never got caught.
I'm like you're not really madefor jail.
Like you should stop, you know.
But that don't mean I'm gonnastop picking up.
They call or whatever okay, yeah, yeah yeah, but like no, I

(26:08):
can't, I can't, and I'm a womanthat I'm around all the time.
I don't want that karma on me,that's just sliding off on me.
Nah, I believe in that shit.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
Okay, I got you, so what?
So we're willing to forgive onothers.
It's just the multiple actions.
So it's like, hey, I can, youcan do it one time, and but
that's it that's a forgivableoffense the oh yeah, the chanel
bag.
Yeah, that's crazy um.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
First of all, how are you that good?
But um yeah, I'm not gonna lie.
She said she stole the chanelbag like I would in the back.
I wouldn't say it, but therewould be a little bit of respect
there, like how did you do that?
Oh, okay, you know you got tostop, but like that was some
nice shit, how did you do that?
Camera's on, but yeah, no, Idon't see myself.

(26:57):
I can't.
Yeah, bro, like, spiritually,like I cannot I worked so hard
to get to this point Like Icannot, like ask somebody else
like mess that up, yeah.
Like I feel like my karma isjust really good.
So yeah, I can't have anythingmessing that shit up.
Understood.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
What would you feel like if they just came back with
a Gucci bag and then, yeah, wejust straight up with you.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah, like, yeah, I stole it it.
I'm not gonna like it at allyeah I'm it's, it's gonna play
in the back of my mind and I'mgonna um, not I, I.
I think that breaking up like Ican't believe you that it's
over, I don't see me leaningthat heavy on it.
But my mind goes a little bitdifferent.

(27:50):
So I'm going to be like a Guccibag.
I deliberately chose a highvalue bag on purpose, because
stealing groceries is one thingto eat.
So if you're doing that, oryou're like I needed socks and I
didn't have the money to payfor socks, or or something like

(28:11):
that, I can understand and graspmy head around like you would.
If you had the means, youwouldn't have did that thing
right, right right but you don'tneed a high value bag.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
So that tells me where your mind is at what if
she said, yeah, I bought it, butI was going to sell it.
I already have it on FacebookMarketplace and I just wanted to
pay our rent.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Why are you with my broke ass?
Nah, I'm just playing.
I can respect that more, butlet me do the gritty stuff yeah,
yeah, yeah yeah, and not to saythat I would.
I would you know i'ma lean onmy family yeah everybody

(28:57):
pitching 75, your boy, yeah,don't got it, you know, and I
and that not to kind of get usoff.
You know, you know a wild term,but I would hate doing that
hurts more than anything.
You know like asking people formoney.
I need your assistance.
Yeah, with a bill or somethingthat hurts.
That's a lot to do.
Yeah, on my side.
So if I'm doing that, I need it.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
And maybe less so on my mom, but in terms of like
asking everybody to pitch in tohelp me pay for something yeah
yeah, that's um, that's but sheknows, she know that, she know
you ain't gonna do it.
That's why she came back withthe Gucci bag no, I will do it
if I have to you know, yeah, soand I got, and this is also why
having family around you isimportant, like even having a

(29:42):
church family.
There's times to where I whereI had to ask on behalf of
another person for this thing,because they needed help and the
church not to say too much, butthe church assisted in that for
them.
She did casually go, but theyassisted with her paying that

(30:03):
bill.
It was significant, like $400.
Yeah, so coming together anddoing something and having a
foundation of people that canwilling to help and pitch in
means a lot, yeah, yeah.
So not to get off on a tangent,but uh, back to the high value
bag.
I, yeah, so I chose a highvalue bag because it really is a

(30:24):
mindset thing.
Is that you're really that?
It's because a bag is a class,this thing for me, it says hey,
I am more important because Icarry this thing yeah because if
it's fashionable, why don't youwear the knockoff like?
it's the exact same thing if itwas how it looks the aesthetic

(30:45):
of it.

Speaker 3 (30:46):
Yeah, yeah, but, yeah , but it's like I got a fucking
Gucci, yeah, yeah exactly Now.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
That changes everything on your mentality and
you're willing to take for that.
Then it tells me kind of whoyou are as a person a little bit
.
Maybe that's a little bitdeeper than you know the normal
person.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
I mean, that's the reality of the situation for
sure, because why well, I wasabout to say why do people be
got the term?
But when everybody goes intothe Gucci store and grabs
everything, it's a word for it.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
But um but that's, that's that's not true, they,
they getting it to sell it andstuff like that.
I don't think so I thinkthey're going to sell some of
that stuff.
But, it's really for them.
Yeah, I think that people whoare thieves will get it to sell.
Looting oh that word.

(31:40):
People who steal 100 iPhonesfrom Apple yeah, they're
probably selling it to a certaindegree, but if 100 people are
running into the Gucci store, asmall fraction of them are going
to be selling it online.
You think a small fraction?
I think a small fraction, forsure.
I think it's more.
I think it's just a high valueclassism.

(32:04):
When people be looting the Guccistores, they don't be going to
the men's section like that andyou know why I feel that way is
that there is so much value to ahardware store if people don't.
And tools are very easy to sell, very easy to pawn people don't
go into the hardware storestealing stuff and they don't

(32:24):
get 395 for this pair ofscissors, or or a wrench.
What are you talking about?
No, there's I'm saying there'sa lot of high value items at the
hardware store where you gonnasell that the same place as you
still what are you?
selling ebay.
I'm, I'm, I'm saying thosethings.
Of course it's not gonna.
You can get a ten thousanddollar bag and you can sell that

(32:45):
easily, okay, I, I agree, sowhat?

Speaker 2 (32:48):
give me an item like what, what is, what is a high
price item at the at the homedepot that they gonna get at
home depot this, this, thisdoesn't know, but I'm waiting on
the answer.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
It's a thousand dollars worth of equipment, but
I'm just saying, okay, theydon't.
They're not apples to apples,my guy, but what?
I was getting at, there's morelows.
There's different type ofhardware stores that you could
go and take from, versus the oneGucci store in your state.
So that's what I'm saying.

(33:21):
There's the frequency ofgetting those tools that you can
probably do a lot more with.
I know it's not apples toapples, but I'm just saying,
yeah, you'll see a lot morethings being stolen and resold.
If that was just simply the theissue, it's really they're
going to wear this item and showit off.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
I just don't hear about people looting stores like
that and like the men's sectionis cleared out at the gucci
store.
I don't ever hear that they'retaking.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
Whatever They'll take a scarf.
You know what?

Speaker 2 (33:51):
I mean, or maybe you know, they are gifting their
women with it.
That's probably true a littlebit.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
Yeah, I get what you're saying.
I do believe that there's somepercentage of it is being gifted
, or worn or used and I thinkthat's majority of the cases.
You know, you know, keep inmind.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
I don't know looters, right, I was just going to say
speculation yeah but for themost part, how I see people act
is most likely they're takingthe thing because it makes them
feel good, like the, the thehigh value item.
Yeah, okay, so, and but that'sto my point is if, if that's the

(34:36):
thing you're taking and youdon't need the thing, then that
tells me where your head is atand it's hard for me to respect
it.
Yeah, yeah, because now thatcarries into different ways and
now I think, if you have thattype of mindset, I can rebuild

(34:57):
for real, because you're alwaysgoing to want for the things I
don't care for or desire, orspend your money in places where
, like, you're spending money tomake feel powerful around other
people in a sense yeah, andit's like that's just not what's
important.
Yeah, so I was like, how can wegrow like I mean, unless I, you

(35:20):
know, hit a lick in the lotteryto where all these things don't
matter?
How can like realistically,right now these things don't
matter.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
How can like realistically?

Speaker 1 (35:32):
or somebody just won, damn, two people actually I
don't think I'll ever do it,maybe maybe one day.
Lottery uh, I've did it acouple times, not that I felt
excited about winning, it wasbecause my granny wanted me to
get her a lot of tickets, so Ibought me one too, right so
that's my experience.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
I used to go to Arkansas every it was damn near
like every Saturday at somepoint with my dad and I had his
nasty as McDonald's coffeebefore I started drinking coffee
myself and we would go thereand he never won.
And I'm just like I'm notplaying this dumb ass game.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
It, it is, and it kind of preys on your excitement
a little bit too.
When I do the scratch-off, I'llget the scratch-off.
The insurance company, everybirthday, will send me a
scratch-off ticket.
I do get excited.
All I have to do is one morehit 5,000.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Seven damn Smaller ones.
I know what you're talkingabout, that shit like Willy
Wonka, bro.
That's crazy, though, that thepeople who actually win that oh
it's nine times out of ten.
They blow that off of cocaineand in las vegas sounds lit
sounds lit got good memoriesvery.

(36:45):
Yeah, I think I saw a video onedude.
He was like I don't regret it,like I think I remember seeing
that that's that's the guy thatI'm talking about.
Yeah, he cocaine and whores inlas vegas.
Yeah, man, he was just like mana great time he was working at
like uh, he was either likedriving buses or a garbage truck

(37:08):
guy.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
There's a better way of saying it yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yeah, a janitorial engineer.
Yeah, sanitation worker yeah,there you go, yeah, yeah.
I mean, yeah, I'm glad hedidn't kill himself, because
that's hard to go back to.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
God, I remember losing a bunch of money one time
.
Yeah Fuck, oh my God, oh my God.
I remember that I was up up,Super up.
I feel like about anything.
And then, when that shit wasgone, dog.
I was like I see why people bekilling themselves.

(37:48):
I see it.
This is alright.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
What would you have did differently?

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Not.
Well, I didn't blow the money.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
You didn't.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, I didn't blow the money.
I just didn't Set up things tomake the money multiply right uh
, yeah, I didn't invest and Iwas literally doing things that
I always wanted to do and to beso like the.
When it came to kaya, mydaughter, like I was here all
the time.

(38:23):
We started like going to betterhotels, you know, better
experiences, the relationship Iwas in, we was going out often I
I was spending the money onlike not necessarily me, but
like the people around me andjust being like the guy that I
always wanted to be.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Yeah and that whole start going down and down and
down yeah, I'm like how we I goto other hotel do you regret
telling your significant otherat the time that you had that
money?

Speaker 2 (38:51):
uh, no, no, cuz that's what is.
What is that?

Speaker 1 (38:55):
I don't even want to be in a relationship like that
because do you feel like theyasked for things a little bit
more?
No, she didn't.
No, she didn't ask.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
I was just being the guy, like you didn't have to ask
a question on, um, uh, uh,certain things you know, like if
, uh, you're budgeting with yourwoman or are you budgeting
yourself on things that you wantto do, what she wants to do
with the family, wants to doyour family, her family, you

(39:24):
know, it just was just like,yeah, sure, cool, let's do it
done.
I just wanted to be that.
I always saw myself as thatperson, so when I had it, I was
just being that person and, yeah, the money ran out.
And then I, man, the money ranout and I lost the job that shit
was man.

(39:45):
I was like I get it.
I get it, man, if I had acouple kids at that time frame.
We had a house, a home.
Oh my god, like man, I see, Isee why these be like I'm
checking.
Yeah, you know what I'm done.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
Yeah, yeah, so yeah I got a question for you.
What's?

Speaker 2 (40:05):
that.
So All right.
So in terms of going off ofthat, I guess I'll come back to
that.
So, in terms of my question is,in terms of leadership roles
like presidency, government role, big, big, big roles that have

(40:28):
a lot of pressure in it, who doyou think can hold that pressure
more, a man or a woman, and why?
And then I'm going to talkafter that Okay.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Who can handle that pressure more?
You know, it's easy for me tosay man.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
Yeah right.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
I'm leaning towards what I've seen and what I've
known you know what I mean.
So I've seen later positionsand so I've seen that more.
So my only understanding is men, but so but I've never seen a
woman and like an executiveleadership to where it's like,

(41:15):
hey, we gotta lean on thisperson and she gonna take us
through there yeah, right, like,yeah, like the president, some
shit yeah yeah and uh.
so I necessarily haven't seen asituation like that to where I
could truly know for real, but Ithink that I almost want to say
that it's close to beingsomewhat both, just because

(41:39):
there's, you know, when you askthat question I lean to the
strongest women I know.
And how would they handle them?
So, like, my grandmother isvery, very strong and she tends
to handle things way like cantake emotions of herself out of

(42:01):
it better than some of the men Iknew.
So I look on people like thatand say I think that she could
hold her composure, but I don'tknow.
It's a different level ofstress and it's a different
level of getting it.
And then I also want to leavewhere another woman put their
body on the line and I've seenthat too to where a man's

(42:26):
getting his ass beat and thenher woman tries to step in and
help.
She's putting her body on theline.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
No, I ain't talking about that.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
No, I'm just saying I'm talking about body on the
line, like a woman's willing tosacrifice herself in order to
help in a situation.
That's why I'm so.
I'm just trying to answer thequestion.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
I guess you do have to think sort of like that In
those big, big, big.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Yeah, I'm just saying like Are you willing to go,
sacrifice yourself?

Speaker 3 (42:50):
Uh huh.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
Yeah, cause that's In those positions.
That's kind of what it is, um,and so If you got the know, how
you got the strength, then youknow it's.
I, you know there's a lot ofmen that's gonna crack.
Of course there's going to be alot of women that's going to
crack as well.
So and that's you know, that'sonly for the few.
And I want to lean towards both,but I'm gonna give it to a man

(43:13):
just because I've seen it toomany, too many more times than
that um, I think, I think it'sum trendy or like, kind of
easier to say that too, like forme.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
But I was on instagram one day and I was
scrolling and it was this guy.
He asked somebody that questionand they said a man basically
um, they're more, uh, adapt.
This is what he said.
They're more adept to deal withstress and things like that.
And then the guy, he had aresponse to it and he said that

(43:46):
you know, in a woman's body,like in their spine, there's
something there that allows themto handle stress actually more
than men because of the wholebirth factor and, um, things
that kind of like relate to thatin their body.
And then he followed it up withJust think about it, who has,

(44:14):
who has a significantly Higheramount of suicide rates?
And that's like men.
And I thought about, I was like, oh shit, that's literally,
that's literally factualinformation Of men not handling
pressure well over women andit's like a statistic of niggas

(44:36):
just checking out because theycan't handle the shit.
Yeah, there might be morepressure on a man, but yeah, I,
I don't know, but it was.
It was very interesting.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
The suicide rate is I is.
I feel what he's saying, but Ithink that's a little bit skewed
, because men check outdifferently than women like
we're less likely to swallow abunch of pills in an attempt to
kill ourselves yeah, we do weprotect the bullet to the head,

(45:06):
we do the jump off a building,we do the thing that's actually
going to kill us versus thechances of survival so we just
real niggas, I'm just sayinglike I mean, you know somebody
who tried to, you know upthemselves and things like that
most yeah yeah, so we know thatsuicide attempts.

(45:30):
Uh, we know women that attemptedsuicide.
Yeah, I don't know any manactually yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
I think it's usually more often yeah than not.
I've heard about women at somepoint trying to do that maybe
you are kind of right, becauseit's just like you know what I'm
going to do it, and that couldbe the difference but the pills

(46:00):
and the, it's very interestingand then it's.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
I think that what keeps a man typically is like
societal, like women are moresocial butterflies, if we're
talking about um, you know,offering themselves like the
people around you exactly.

Speaker 3 (46:23):
Yeah, yeah it's more.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
It's more, it's harder to uh.
A woman's going to be moreaccepted than a man and for
whatever reasons, whether menmacho humano, you perceive
yourself a person as a threatmore than a woman would you know
?
so there's a good way, but Idon't want to stay on attention
on that as more as, uh, leaningtowards adapting with stress

(46:47):
Cause, like I said, I go to mygrandmother and she's just built
different.
So I think that and I think shecan handle things far superior
than a lot of these guys.
I mean, she grew up in adifferent time.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
She was actually homeless.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Like you know, somebody trying to touch her and
she left her.
She left that house to behomeless.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Yeah, and living on the street for her.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
So you're just going to be built different different.
You're gonna go through anymeans to get what you need.
Yeah, yeah you.
She doesn't fold easily rightliterally easy thing.
I panic, she don't even concern, you know so it's just levels
to this, yeah.
So that's why I said I was likeI feel like it could be evenly
matched, but I I just seen itmore.

(47:40):
So if I'm putting my moneywhere my mouth is, it's going to
be on the man, but it's notgoing to surprise me like wow,
you know, like I can't believeshe held her own.
I may be shocked depending onthe person, but I've seen just
women like really stand tallFacts, yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
So yeah, that's a very interesting, um, very, very
interesting uh point thatyou're saying.
Yeah, I do get that as well.
When it comes to the communitything, that is, that is a little
different, that is a littledifferent, yeah and uh, and then
yeah, so, and also it, it'sgoing to be different.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
So I'm going to say that, more times than not, a
man's going to take thatleadership role, but I think
that women can.
Ultimately, just because how,even your daughter do you call
her princess?
You know what I mean, likemaybe not the term itself, but
you treating her in that way.
You're delicate, you're softwith her yeah, you're gonna tell

(48:45):
her she's beautiful.
You're gonna give them allthose positive affirmations my
grandmother.
From my understanding she,really, even though I, she is
beautiful, um, she didn't comewith the environment oh, yeah,
so how?
she was treated is going to bedifferently.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
And I'm not really just saying she was beautiful.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
Yeah, it's different.
She's like a quarter Indian andI see her old pictures next to
her daughters in prom.
I'm not even kidding, youcouldn't tell the difference of
who was the daughter.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was like, look at you, I waslike you was a sex symbol back

(49:26):
in the day, you know, yeah, so,um, so, uh, so it's different
how we raise our we raise ourwomen just to be soft with yeah
not to put a lot on them so itwas interesting.
Uh, you know, I was listeningto like a like the red pill, uh
side of things and for all, whatdoes?

Speaker 2 (49:38):
it mean like, uh, it's, it's a matrix.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
You take the blue pill, you like the red pill.
Uh side of things and for all.
What does it mean?
Like, uh, it's, it's a matrix.
You take the blue pill, youtake the red pill.
That means you're out, you'reawoke yeah, so they use that as
a as a term to where like youunderstand of life.
You know, you kind of have youreyes wide open.
You understand it for fully forwhat it is, I think if I, yeah,
so, but it was he did.

(49:59):
Um, I always try to lean intolike the fringes of what people
have to say, because there canbe some truth to what they're
saying.
And so when, uh, in germanythere would be these guys this
is like in the world war ii areaera they would intentionally
scar themselves because thatshows hardness.
Yeah, like yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Or some people even in the UFC.
They'll intentionally mess uptheir ears to get that
cauliflower ear.
You know that cauliflower?

Speaker 2 (50:26):
ear, yeah, yeah, do that On purpose.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
Yeah, because it's a sign of toughness.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
I mean, I would be a little bit more intimidated.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
Exactly, he's, exactly, yeah, exactly he's been
through some things.
But if a woman has the scarsthat's more trauma and she's
been through things, so she'sless value.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Where a man values himself higher if he's in battle
yeah, so yeah, yeah, so yeah,like the masculine energy, I
guess, yeah, yeah yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
So I think it's.
It's a type of like, and maybeit's more psychological than
anything it's like men are morebred for this, more than women
have.
Because you're most as a father, I know I'm going to be soft
with my daughter give her morelove than you know.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
Like bro, stop crying yeah, oh god, I was just
talking about just yesterdaywith somebody and I was just
like man, I feel like I'm goingto be different, like it's not
going to be the same, which islike natural.
But, um, I I really wondersometimes how different the
interaction would be with who Iam to my son than who I am to my

(51:35):
daughter.
They might experience twototally different me's and I
thought about that one day.
I was like damn because, likewhen I was growing up, my mom,
me and my mom, it was like thebest ever, like she was so fun
all the time and with my dad weweren't like too close for real,

(51:56):
like when I was growing up andwhen I look at, uh, I mean he
was still cool, but like when Ilook at how I am with kaya, it's
just like all I want to do ismake her like kind of what
you're saying, like make herlaugh, enjoy herself, enjoy life
.
I'm gonna be that to an extentwith my son, but like, if he's

(52:19):
crying and shit like dog, youknow what I'm saying, like I
would be, I would be way more.
I don't have all the answers toit cause I don't have a son,
but, um, I know things woulddefinitely be different and it
would not be this Barbie houseupbringing, you know, vibe.

(52:39):
So I think when I was youngeruh, this is just random, but
when I was younger, uh, I usedto play with my sister a lot
because we like we were reallyclose.
Uh, we were closer than what weare now at one point and I
would play with her uh a lotwith like her dolls and and I
and I think my dad, he wasgetting worried or some shit.
So he like I think he maybestopped playing with the dolls

(53:03):
or he like trying to likeinterchange the toys out, just
so I wouldn't go into the routeof whatever.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
Nah, give me that barber yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
Things are just different.
Things are just the waydifferent yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
Yeah, no, no, I understood that and yeah, and I
I I understood probably whereyour dad was probably coming
from, like, hey, I need toprobably do a little bit yeah
because he may think this isnormal uh-huh or whatever I
don't know, would I do that?
Maybe, yeah, I mean, if he, ifhe playing with a bunch of peak
things like was you choosing thebarbie over the race car?
I don't remember.
Okay, yeah, but I had a lot of.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
I had a lot of a lot of other toys, yeah, yeah.
So I don't think I would justbe like, I don't think I would
just be like overly like that,but I would.
If I saw that, I would try totest it out a little bit and I
would, like you know, put thedinosaur on the table just see
what you see if he you know, no,daddy, I want her.

(54:08):
Yeah, yeah, no, shout out, shoutout, shout out, shout out,
shout out.
But, um, okay, yeah, no, no, no, no it.
I've just seen people grow to apoint.
I I had this guy, he's a mentor, or was basically a mentor of
mine.
Uh, um, and you know about, Iain't gonna say it like on here,
but I came into the crib oneday with a pink hoodie.
He said take that off I waslike what like it's, it's cool.

(54:34):
I ain't seen that pink hoodiesince he had to have.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
Took that shit while I was not looking at through
that bitch away yeah like thatover you know these are older,
yeah, yeah, but uh well, hedon't you know care my other
best friends dad my other bestfriend's dad.

(55:01):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah you need to take that off.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah I was like, damn man, it's kind of
chilly in here.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
I got you yeah and I ain't never see that shit again
and I think he had, he had tohave done so well, distracting
me or something, because I itwas like a week past and I
didn't remember where I put itand I just put two or two
together like they might do that.
But you know there are somepeople that that that again,
like the older generation, themore you go back I'm sure it

(55:25):
just gets like more and morestrict with stuff like that.
So, yeah, my son, if I see himplaying with dolls, I I wouldn't
like smack his hand no but Iwould.
I would try to.
You know you want to go to thearcade.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
Right, I'm with you.
I don't like to disciplinephysically, but I know that
sometimes it's necessary.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
I feel like I'll be tough but fair.
Like if what I was telling mycousin my little cousin when he
was staying with us for a little, if what I was telling my
cousin my little cousin when hewas staying with us for a little
bit, I was like, hey, you dothe right things, you have fun.
This can be the easiest way,easiest thing for you or the
hardest thing for it.
That's literally your choicemm-hmm you know?
hey, just keep up with me, youknow, do you got?

(56:16):
You know not necessarilybedtime, but be home at a
certain time.
Let me know what's going on.
Um, make sure you're doing yourwork and you get.
You're going to get my easymoney.
Just, I'm just giving you likelittle assignments so I can give
you money, like take out thetrash like it's 20 bucks a week.
Then you get 20 bucks a weekfrom my grandmother, that's 40.

(56:38):
That's, that's a good, that'sgood weekly for uh, somebody who
was in middle school at thetime, or maybe in, I think it
was middle school, but uh, yeah,until you don't, then I was
working them to death, likeliterally working out yeah yeah,
to where he's like.
He can't even make it up thestairs.
He just kind of passed out onthe floor.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
Yeah, I told you, yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
So I and same thing for my nephews like, hey, I want
you to have fun, we're gonna.
You're gonna come home, you'regonna have be at the y swim, do
what you want to play basketball, we're gonna work out a little
bit and then, um, you got yourwork and then after that you do
what you want until it's bedtime.
Yeah and then so we, I'm willingto try to create things.
There's money if you do whatyou want until it's bedtime.

(57:19):
Yeah, so I'm one to try tocreate things.
There's money.
If you do well, you get goodgrades, then you get this.
If you don't, you get money totake away from you.
So there's a game that we play.
So what I told them was you gotto make this difficult for me.
Giving you grace and having funis more difficult for me,

(57:43):
because I don't really have thattime to.
But when you don't do the rightthings, oh, that's easy, just
go to your room.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
Oh, I don't have to pay you.
That's money I keep.
Right, I win, I literally winwhen you don't do well.
So you doing this, it doesn'thurt me at all because I
ultimately get to keep that time.
I don't have to spend.
I don't have to spend causeyou're in trouble or I don't
have to.
I keep my money.
I get to do what I want notwhat you want.

(58:12):
So you're supposed to make thisdifficult for me, and I'm glad I
want to see that happen.
I want you to make it difficultfor me.
I want to like dang, I gottawork some more to make sure I
gotta pay my nephew for his ageyeah yeah, so and I want to see
that for you.
But when, when you make it easy,I'm not gonna feel bad.
Yeah, I keep it off, yeah, andum, I framed it like, and they

(58:34):
understood it, not to say that.
You know, ultimately they theydid well on their own, but you
know, still I wanted to alwayshave the incentives and of
course it's going to fluctuate,sometimes like hey, I don't
gotta pay much, or somethinglike dang, I really gotta go out
of pocket, um, so yeah, yeah,that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
Some um tough, but yeah, is that tough.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
I mean yeah, I mean it's, it's well I'm just saying
tough in terms of the workingout.
That working out is tough.
Now you're having a strictenvironment of what you can do.
I'm using loose examples Not to.
I didn't necessarily need tobeat on you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, if itnever came to that, then
there's.
You know what I mean.
You shouldn't even be here,yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean like at

(59:17):
a certain age.
Why am I whooping you for?
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, Like yougot to be doing something
drastic for me to have to puthands and feet on you for yeah.
So when I say hands and feet,yeah, yeah, yeah, Because I know
what the drastic is and I knowwhat the level is.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
Like bro, why are you stealing, breaking into cars,
taking a guy?

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Yeah, that's very drastic.
That's penalized, and if you'rebringing drama to a house, you
got to go.
You can't be here.

Speaker 3 (59:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
Yeah, so that's where I'm just going to kick you out
and go back to where your momand dad is.
Yeah, so it's really going tobe that.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
I mean it's fair.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
Yeah, this has similarly happened.
It's not like I'm just speakingout of turn.
I was like, no, the next thingthat happened, if this is the
route he's going, then he isgoing to bring this back to our
house.
You're too old for this.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
I don't have the time for this.
Yeah, yeah so you gotta be gone?
No, definitely makes sense thedifference between religion and
spirituality.

(01:00:44):
Do you think that one can existwithout the other?

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
spirituality and religion they can like okay
spirituality?
I guess yes.
They can't like okaySpirituality?
I guess yes.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
And you really have to get the meaning on it, it's
not really a mean it's just like.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
So I'm trying not to, I'm trying to use the proper
words for it, but it's going tosound insulting, insulting a
little bit.
I don't really respectspirituality like that.
Uh um, because and nodisrespect, but spirituality is
saying I believe there's a Godand I know he's real, but I'm

(01:01:31):
not putting the work in tofurther what he wants for me and
that's bringing more people toGod, that's actually celebrating
him going to church and I feellike it's just.
I think it's just kind of likecop out.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
How can you not have that?

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
Or do you just think like Because if you believe in
God and you believe the Bible isreal.
They talk about celebrating andworship.
Yeah, and I don't see when youtalk about spirituality, I don't
see the worship portion.

(01:02:10):
I don't see For real.
I don't see that you deliveringmore people to him.
Yeah, so, and that's kind ofwhere I land on that.
On that, there's actually, youknow, think, rules that shoot
that needs to be followed, and Idon't think that's spirituality
, I think it's just easy.
It's easy way to say, hey, I, Ilove god, I feel like I know

(01:02:33):
that he's real, but I don't wantto.
Yeah, I lazily don't want to dodo the things that's within the
guidelines.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
I guess I don't like fully agree with what you said
just because I knew you wouldn't.
I get what you're saying, thoughI think it's more of a thing.
I think it's more of a thing.
I think it's more of a thingfor people on that, um, like

(01:03:08):
when you, when you're talkingabout that, about about religion
in general, about, like youknow, bringing people to God and
stuff like that, I agree withthat and I feel like that's
definitely something that shouldbe done.
I do feel that it can be moreof a thing for people in that
religious world if we were tojust separate the two and there

(01:03:29):
wasn't like a blend or whatever.
I do feel like there are morepeople on the religious side who
take that part more seriously,because it seems like the more
the people that are likespiritual are more like to
themselves if that makes sensebecause spiritual is.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
I mean, I think there's levels to it, but
they're just kind of like.
When I hear, like I'm spiritualbut I'm not religious, what
does that ultimately meanliterally?
What does that say?

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
well, if somebody were to say that, I would take
it more so.
Like, like religion is likethis, this, this, like cut
concrete, this is what it is.
There's.
There's no wiggle room aroundany of this.

(01:04:25):
Like everything happened inhere, which is a book it could
be the Bible, the Quran, this,the death, whatever and it seems
like when someone says it likethat, it seems more like
everything is just likecutthroat.
This is exactly what it is, butI feel like that that uh phrase

(01:04:46):
, what's the phrase again?
I'm spiritual, but I'm notreligious I feel like that
phrase comes more from theevolution of these books in
general and how like a lot of ithas to do with man.
Like there are certain books inthe Bible that's not in there
anymore.
We'll never know fully what waslike completely in there, and

(01:05:09):
we just talk about one Bible weain't talking about like other
religions.
So there's like a man-madeportion to that and I feel like
that's what they're saying more.
So it's just like I believe ingod.
I believe in they could believein everything that's in the
bible yeah, I mean, but notnecessarily, I don't know like
there's a thought of not knowingokay and I maybe can help a

(01:05:34):
little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
So god didn't put a pen to paper and write the.
Bible.
So, yeah, all of it isconstructed by man.
So, yeah, yeah.
So the Old Testament comes fromthe Torah, which is, you know,
jewish and then Jesus.
So in the Old Testament ittalks about their coming back in
the form of God coming back,and I'm going to try to

(01:06:02):
oversimplify this God's going tocome back.
The Son of God talks about allthat in the New Testament.
Jesus is supposed to fulfillthat Old Testament.
That's why you have the NewTestament, which we follow.
The Old Testament is prettymuch the Torah, which we follow.
Um, so, uh, so the oldtestament is pretty much the
torah, or what jews follow,because they don't believe jesus

(01:06:23):
was the son of god so they feellike they're still going to be
messiah that comes back.
So that's why they still followthe old testament, the new
testament, which christiansfollow um and um.
So that was put together.
I forgot the name of it andsorry for blanking out, but that

(01:06:47):
was put together by a group ofmen Getting all the historical
facts and books together by theapostles and different sources,
and there is other texts inwhich was left out because they
couldn't properly be verified.
So that was a collective ofbooks.
So, like Matthew, mark, lukeand John, if you read them

(01:07:08):
they're all accounts followingJesus.
So you have a different letterfrom Matthew, mark and it gives
it in that same history timeline.
Just so because there arewitnesses to verify, you need
several witnesses to believesomething matches up yeah
exactly.
Um, so so all of this comingfrom uh collectively in the form

(01:07:31):
of a man, um, where was I goingwith that?
Uh?
So so now let's go back to thatpoint of talking to uh about
religion, or spiritual, notreligious, it's like okay.
So how I looked at is like I'mbeing led by a different force

(01:07:53):
in who I identify as god, likespiritual like hey, I believe I
have a feeling as God, likespiritual, like hey, I believe I
have a feeling.
I know I'm a good person, yeah,and why can't they be the same?
Because you, I mean we.
Because, because there'scommands, there is a way to act,
as guidelines that we follow,and that's what considers us

(01:08:13):
Christian.
Are you a believer of Christ?
And that's like one of thefoundations of being a Christian
.
So so that's kind of where youstart, and if you feel like that
, and then there's rules thatyou follow, not to say that
we're all sinners, we're allgoing to act in sin, but to not

(01:08:36):
try to make a commit to thatguideline, it's like alright,
well, you're spiritual, but youdon't know the.
But to not try to make a committo that guideline is like all
right, well, you're spiritual,but you don't know the guiding
forces.
It may feel right and you feellike you're a good person, but
to somebody who believes inabortion versus who doesn't, you
know, I feel like this is not alife, yada, yada, the science

(01:08:59):
says this, and then that mayfeel right to you, but me, as a
christian, I'm like nah, thatain't.
Yeah, so there's guidelines ofwhat we follow.
You could be, you could be ledby the devil and you not even
know it because you feelspiritual, I feel this thing
that could be a demon.
You know, like you don't.
You don't know because you'rerationalizing your mind, because

(01:09:21):
we are human.
We may think we're being ledproperly and we may have this
ultimate spirit around us thatmay, that makes us feel good or
it feels like the right way togo, but you truly don't know
that.
Yeah, and so that's a.
There's guidelines that youneed to take, uh, to take, and
making sure, because you knowthe devil is real and you know

(01:09:42):
the devil is convincing and I amvery much smarter than you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
You're right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
So you got to make sure that, hey, I'm following
the word, because I don't wantto be led astray.
I need to be in the church and,being with others who can help
keep me on track, I can worshiphim together, we can all have
conversations together and beingin an environment where I'm
with like-minded individualsyeah so.
So this isn't.
It's not just we need to go tochurch every day, it's actually

(01:10:10):
necessity.
So let me ask you this.

Speaker 2 (01:10:12):
So if there is a person that's, um, spiritual, or
they call themselves spiritualbecause it sounds like when you
hear the word spiritual you onlythink of one thing or one type
of person, I'm what I'm sayingis that from my perspective, I
believe like a person can kindof do both in a way.

(01:10:37):
So let's say there's a person,that, that, that does both, that
does follow all that, but theysay spirituality and it's not.
I don't know.
It's like how you're explainingit is it's kind of like
explaining it as like other, butthat's not really like how I
look at it other other, as inlike you're not religious, like

(01:10:59):
you're not, you're not on thisside, but like, how I see it,
what I'm seeing in my head is,or the question is do you think
that a person can be quotespiritual, like you know,
outside meditating tree huggerdid like that person feel like
they're connected to the answer.
All that type of person butalso reads the bible, knows the

(01:11:22):
bible back and forth, onlyfollows those commands as well,
and do you feel like that can beone in the same?

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
um, so the devil knows the bible back and forth
include yeah, he knows the bibletoo but like um, but what?

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
I'm saying is is that do you feel like both of y'all
are still one in the same undergod, as both of y'all are still
sinners?
I mean yeah, yeah so why isthere such a hard line?

Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
Well, you asked for my opinion oh yeah, no, no, I'm
enjoying it, like you know.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
I mean yeah yeah, so why is there such a hard line?
Well, you asked for my opinion.
Oh, yeah, no, no, no, I'menjoying it, Like you know.
So I'm saying that I ain'tgoing to come like nigga, get
the F out of here with thatspiritual shit.
Yeah, Like I ain't that with it.
You know what?

Speaker 3 (01:12:15):
I mean, oh, right, right, right but yeah, yeah,
that with it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
You know what I mean.
Oh right, right, yeah, yeah,yeah.
So, but yeah is there a part ofme it'd be like I mean okay,
yeah, yeah, like, yeah, allright, like that, that it
doesn't carry much weight withme.
You, you might as well just sayI'd rather hear it say I
believe in god.
I, I just like doing me youknow, but that's like the same
and I respect that more becauseyou're real with yourself saying

(01:12:41):
, hey, I just love having sexwith these hoes.
You know what I mean, Like I canrespect that more.
Then you give an answer towhere it feels good with you,
Like this feels good to say youknow, yeah.
So like I want you to be realwith yourself and and just

(01:13:01):
saying, hey, I'm spiritual orhey, I like I don't care to go
to church on sunday.
It's boring like just say, saysomething, say that yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah, versus but okay, well, I get what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
It seems like well in my perception of what you're
saying.
It seems like well in myperception of what you're saying
.
It sounds like it's still onein the same.
They're just using the wordspiritual.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
You just don't like the word spiritual.
It just feels like you're kindof lying to yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
Yeah, but it's like, it's like you're.
I don't make it sound good.

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
Like like be real.
You like you just don't likegoing to church, you find it
boring, or or you like you justdon't like going to church.
You find it boring or you likeyour time to yourself, but you
believe in God.
You just don't want to take thesteps to go any further than
belief.
Yeah, you want to make it to.
Yes yes, and that's kind ofreally where it's at.

(01:13:52):
It's like hey, I want to get anunderstanding, but I want to do
it on my terms.

Speaker 3 (01:13:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:58):
Yeah, and I'm like okay, I can respect the realness
of it, but you're saying youknow, I don't.
I feel like you know, churches,they all judgy, and yada, yada.
That's every human ever like.
Yeah, you're saying somethingthat that is just a normal
person like Like, yeah, we allsin.

Speaker 3 (01:14:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
We always go like you do something, we're going to
have a response to it.
Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, yeah.
Like you can shoot a man in thechest and like every Christian
is like not supposed to feel away about that.
Like, hey, we ain't supposed tojudge, we ain't supposed to.
Yeah, we're going to have ahuman reaction.
I think we're all humanstogether.
Yeah, yeah, Gossip.

Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
Yes, people are going to gossip and talk about you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
It is what it is.
Oh well, like I'm sure peopletalk about me in my church, I
care next to little about it.
Yeah, Like literally zero,that's pretty clear.
Like it's close, it's very,it's a very thin line.

Speaker 3 (01:15:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
Yeah, I, you know, I don't, I don't wild out about my
conservatives, I kind of keepit, Cause I did one time and it
was a whole thing, yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah.
Like they got upset I was likethey're way too you know, like
they hard-lining democrats.
Yeah, and I was like all right,I'll just keep that to myself.

Speaker 2 (01:15:26):
Um, but yeah, um, so, yeah, so I think it's one and
the same, basically.
Yeah, I mean those two words.

Speaker 1 (01:15:28):
Yeah, there's there's guys we follow, I guidelines
you follow.
I think that trace isabsolutely essential and not out
, and even outside the namesthat the things that I mentioned
before of how coming togetherand assistance is very powerful
keeping you on track.
Um, needing god, needing peopleto pray for you, worship,
giving to god what, uh, whathe's given to us, it offering is

(01:15:53):
very much important and verymuch crapped on, because I was
listening to Ben Shapiro on theBreakfast Club today and he said
something that I knew but neverreally thought about.
It's just, you know, when theytalk about giving money to the
government and taxes and thingslike that to one entity and

(01:16:16):
they're not actually putting themoney to your causes.
Charlemagne and Ben Shapiroagreed on that.
That's kind of why church isimportant, because you give it
to the one entity that youactually believe in and they're
going to give it to others whocan help.
Need a cause, oh shit.

Speaker 2 (01:16:37):
I think we did it.
Yeah, my storage is full.

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
Okay, all right.
Well, this is two for theculture.
Oh shit, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
Is it okay?
Oh no, it is what it is.
I'll try it again, All right.

Speaker 3 (01:16:48):
Well, no worries this is two for the culture.
We'll be back.
Yeah, we'll be back.
Love y'all.