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September 30, 2025 37 mins

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A decade of transforming the intellectual property landscape through inclusion, allyship, and community building, that's the remarkable journey of IP Inclusive we explore in this episode with founder Andrea Brewster.

What makes IP Inclusive unique is its ground-up development, responding to the genuine needs of professionals rather than imposing initiatives from above. This approach has fostered the creation of thriving communities including Women in IP, IP Out for LGBTQ+ professionals, IP and Me for those from minority ethnic backgrounds, IP Ability supporting disabled professionals and carers, and IP Futures for early-career individuals. Each community evolved naturally and embraces allies, a concept that's been vital for engaging those in positions of influence.

Join us on the eve of Congress 2025: IP and AI for an evening of networking. The event is hosted by the CIPA EDI Committee by the invitation of the Congress Committee. Book your place here.


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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, I mean, IP inclusive has to be the crowning
glory.
And what a nice way to finishthe career that I'm not working
in IP anymore, but I'm stillworking with the people.
Lee Davis and Gwilym Robertsare the two IPs in a pod and you
are listening to a podcast onintellectual property brought to
you by the Chartered Instituteof Patent Attorneys the

(00:22):
Chartered Institute of Patent.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Attorneys, how's things with you?
All good, all good.
Yes, I think I've told youbefore the podcast.
I was in a late-night chemistlooking for antibiotics last
night for a three-year-old, soit's good to be back there,
excellent.
Yeah, we've all been there atvarious parental phases, I know.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
We probably shouldn't go through the chemist stories
because mine's I think I've tolda podcast before.
Do you want to tell it again?
Go on when?
I think the first properholiday we took the girls away
on, and so Evie had never hadchicken box when she was younger
.
In fact she did, and the one ortwo minor little spots that she
had were chicken box, butdidn't know at the time.

(01:05):
And it meant that we were justgetting on.
In fact she did, and the one ortwo minor little spots that she
had were chickenpox, but didn'tknow at the time.
And it meant that we were justgetting on the plane to fly out
and she was complaining about anitch on her side and by the
time we'd got into.
Well, we were on a Greek island, I can't remember which one.
By the time we got to a Greekisland, it started to become
kind of a row of blisters aroundher trunk and up around her
back.
So it turned out she hadchildhood shingles, which is
quite, quite rare.
Tends to happen when you getchickenpox as a baby, but it

(01:26):
doesn't really develop intoanything.
But it meant it meant that Ihad to get the local gp, who
obviously came to the complexand uh saw evie and that and uh
prescribed that we'd need to umget zibirax to treat it and also
very kindly had a conversationwith our gp back in the uk just
to make sure that that was theright thing to do and stuff the
medical side all really, reallygood.
But you can't buy Zivirax orget it on prescription in any

(01:49):
great quantity on a Greek island.
So he had to drive me aroundvarious Greek pharmacies, take
me in.
So the first one, the woman,disappeared, a shop full of a
chemist, fullreek greek people,and came out shouting um cream
for the man with herpes.
Should we get andrea on at thatstage in the proceedings?

Speaker 2 (02:22):
I thought, if you change, we could change this a
tiny bit and then get andrea on.
No, let's just do it, you'reright hey, andrea, how are you?

Speaker 1 (02:33):
I'm all right, lee, I am beginning to wonder if I'm
doing the wrong podcast, butthat's familiar to most of our
guests.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
We have almost you almost certainly have.
We've.
We decided a long time ago, butpeople keep coming.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
So big year for you, Andrea, big year for IP
Inclusive.
I was going to say you'realmost 10 years old, but you're
not, obviously.
But IP Inclusive is 10 yearsold.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
IP Inclusive is 10 years old, although it's hard to
sort of put a starting point onIP Inclusive because it sort of
all grew a bit randomly fromvery humble beginnings.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
I'm not quite sure when it became an ip inclusive,
but we're calling it 10 years Iremember an event it was, I
think it was in old superoffices, in so in the old hall,
and there were a number of usaround the table and we were
talking about all things,diversity, and I don't know
whether that was the first orone of the first, or maybe just
me misremembering stuff, andthat is the first, and it

(03:31):
started out as just hey, let's,let's, seeper, pull lots of
people together from the ipsector to chat about important
things.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
So we did one of these roundtables on promoting
the uk ip professions abroad.
But this one was about isdiversity in IP a problem?
If so, do we want to dosomething about it, and can we
do that together?
And we pulled together lots ofinvitees from different parts of
the UK IP sector and we justhit a nerve, I think you know

(04:00):
people came along to chat aboutdiversity and suddenly everyone
was interested in it.
Everyone wanted to do somethingwe had I don't know if you
remember this, baroness NevilleRolfe.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
Do you remember?
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Actually invited herself along.
She was the IP minister at thetime and she was so keen on the
idea.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
With a blue flash in her hair.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, she came like really clashed with the Red
Wolves at Seapert Do youremember those awful bright Red
Wolves?
So she came along with her bluestreak and the red walls and
did us a lovely little keynotespeech, following which we all
felt, yes, we need to dosomething about diversity.
And all of a sudden, thingswere happening.
It was brilliant.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
Sometimes it's just about the time being right, but
it's a compilation of factorsthat you need the time to be
right and you need people.
People are prepared to makethings happen, and that was you.
You wasn't it.
I mean, without your sort offoresight on this, without your
drive, it's difficult to seethat it really got the traction
that it that it ended up havingyou need all the components.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
You need that bulldozer.
Yeah, so I was that.
I don't know lots of people did,but you also need a room full
of really enthusiastic peoplewho are prepared to volunteer to
do stuff, and we also I meanyour role in it was important,
lee, because SIPA supported itevery step of the way and SIPA
was sending out these vibes that, yes, this is the right thing

(05:19):
to do, yes, we want to back thisand we will give it a home
until it's ready to float free.
So without the home at seaport,ip inclusive arguably wouldn't
have been the success it is.
So all these components- haveto go together.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
It's personally important to me, and I know it
is to to quilliam too, and Imight even let him speak in a
moment, but it's um.
You know, I was, I was thinkingabout this this morning,
thinking about the podcast, andto me.
So, edi, however you want toframe it, can be incredibly
complex, kind of when you startto think about all of the
various ways in which differentimpacts on people's lives and

(05:55):
how that impacts on theirrelationships, their working
lives, their friendships and allthese kinds of things.
And it could also be, and forme, incredibly simple, and for
me, for me, incredibly simple,and for me it's incredibly
simple because I just want to bethe kind of person who helps
people lead the best minds theycan.
That's it.
That that to me, that to me, ismy take on this, and I don't

(06:16):
understand why the whole worldcan't be the same.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
Don't get it yeah, I know what you mean it's now when
I speak yeah please go on Imean I, I think I got involved a
little bit later, um, and Ithink, andrew, you actually
basically grabbed hold of me andsaid we do more, which is
brilliant.
I thank you.
That was exactly the rightthing.

(06:40):
Um, with your bulldozer pincers, if you wish, wish.
I think you're not a bull Zee,you're a snake charmer, or a
lion tamer, I don't know, I'mnot sure I'd prefer that
actually With pincers, yeah,with an effective scorpion.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
Can you stop?
This it's going in the wrongdirection.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
I'm trying really hard but failing.
But no, you do this brilliantjob of bringing people along.
I think what you're really goodat is identifying the right
people who've got the energy.
So getting Lee in.
You know, once you've got hisinterest, you can't get rid of
him.
So you know, I think you didthe right thing there.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, I worked out early on that the best way to
get Lee to do something for youwas to sort of put it in terms
of a challenge.
It was to say I bet we can't dothis, can we?
I bet this would be toodifficult and like two days
later, he'd have spent hisentire night working on it and
it would be done.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Hey, should you and me do another podcast without
Lee about how to work?
Lee, this would be great.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
No, we shouldn't give the secrets away.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
But more recently.
I mean, it's just the momentumhas been amazing and you've got
so many different threads nowand so many things going on.
It's quite fantastic because Iwas going to maybe just ask you
to give us a little kind ofpotted history of the 10 years
and how you've seen it developand you know what you've learned
.
Really, I suppose it's.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
It's a really hard one, macmillan, because it has
grown sort of politely you couldcall it organ, but what that
actually means is randomly, butimportantly, it's sort of grown
from the ground up.
So nobody has actually sat atthe top even me as the bulldozer
, and said we are going to dothis, that and the other.
It's more been a case of peoplesaying we think we should do

(08:18):
this, we'd like to do this, wecan help with that, and you sort
of pull all these threadstogether and that's the
direction you go in, becausethat's where people want to go,
and I think that's helped itsucceed, because it has been
driven from the ground up by thevery people that are putting
all the hard work into it andultimately, hopefully, going to
benefit from it.
I mean, we've had a funny old10 years.

(08:41):
We've had some difficultperiods where we didn't know
quite what type of structure wewere going to adopt.
To start with it was all very,very loose and sort of parent
teachers association, and thenit got to the point where we
perhaps had to be a bit moregrown up and have our own bank
account.
And then people startmentioning governance and it all
gets a bit tricky.
So we went through thoseteething problems gets a bit

(09:05):
tricky, so we went through thoseteething problems.
But I think what we've got nowis a really, really strong setup
where we're working inpartnership with lots of IP
sector bodies, like our foundingmembers, like CIPA and SIPMA,
but we've also got thatindependence.
So, for instance, as thepolitical landscape is getting
more tricky now, ip inclusivecan still be there, sitting
apart from everything else, andit can still provide support

(09:26):
because of what it is, and Ithink the kind of maturity that
IP Inclusive has gained over the10 years has put it in a really
good position to serve thewhole sector from here on.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
And the network as well.
So you know, as you say, it'sgrown that you've got those
enthusiasts in.
But quite often thoseenthusiastic people tend to be
also in positions of reasonableinfluence, because it's
enthusiasm that possibly gotthem where they are in other
parts of their life as well.
So I think that's been quiteuseful too.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yeah, and we've worked hard to make sure that
everybody feels able to getinvolved and to make sure that
all the big IP sectororganisations, the membership
bodies, the regulator, theintellectual property office, to
make sure that all of those arepart of what's going on.
So you can't have somethinghappen with diversity and
inclusion in our space nowwithout IP inclusive being

(10:18):
involved, and that's a reallygood position for us to be in.
It means we can speak out forlots of people who need us.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
And that's the litmus test isn't it.
Whenever we have conversationsnow about diversity in the IP
space, it's always where's IPinclusive on this.
That's a testament to howembedded it is now in the IP
space.
It's always where's IPinclusive on this.
That's a testament to howembedded it is now in the IP
ecosystem?

Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, I think so, which is a huge responsibility,
but it means that we can reallyenjoy what we're doing, knowing,
a, that there's a lot ofsupport and, b that it stands a
better chance of being effective.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
So you mentioned the political context and we do, on
the podcast, try and steer awayfrom any sort of big P political
stuff.
So perhaps talk more aboutwhere society is currently
around this.
It's quite a challenging timeat the moment, isn't it?
For EDI.
We look around the world andperspectives are changing.

(11:10):
We look in the UK and we seestuff that's happening in the UK
that's perhaps making us thinkdifferently, changing.
We look in the uk and we seestuff that's happening in the uk
that's perhaps making us thinkdifferently.
But deep down there is thissense for me certainly that
we've still got a huge amount ofwork to do to make people feel
included in the ip professionsociety in general, and that
doesn't go away I think that'sright.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
I think a year ago I might have been in a slightly
different position, thinking, oh, you perhaps were nearly there
is there still going to be workfor us to do in the next two to
five years?
But you're right now.
It's become clear in the last12 months that there still is a
lot of work to do and that workis actually increasing as we go.
And it's a shame, in a way,that people are thinking of it

(11:47):
as political, because what'shappening is not really
political.
It's not about who's in powerand what economic policies
they're adopting.
This is about human beings andhow we treat them.
It's about our society's ethics, general fairness, how we treat
our fellow human beings andwhether we include them, whether

(12:10):
we respect them, and that'sreally not a political thing and
it's a shame it's beenweaponized by some in that
context, but it is somethingit's definitely happening.
Things are going downhill andwe all need to respond to that.
We all need to step up to theplate if we still care about
building that nice, maturesociety where everybody matters

(12:31):
and you'd like to think thatthis is just another challenge
along the way, wouldn wouldn'tyou?

Speaker 3 (12:35):
It couldn't always be good.
There were always going to betimes when, perhaps,
circumstances were a bit tougherand we ride it out.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
I think that's right.
Yeah, I think there's enough ofus who care enough about the
fundamentals that we will rideit out.
I think we may have to perhapsuse different terminology at
certain times, we might have todo things in a slightly
different way.
But you know, I think inclusiveis in a unique position because
this is what we do diversityand inclusion, in particular

(13:02):
inclusion.
So we just carry on doing itand we are there as a safe space
when everything else is fallingaround us.
You know, if your individualemployer is not able to do as
much on the EDI front as it usedto, well, ip Inclusive is still
here, showing that the sectoras a whole cares.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
I was having an interesting conversation last
night with some colleagues Iwon't say who, that's not fair
on the podcast and it was abouthow perhaps perspective that
firms take now might bedifferent.
For the last decade or so firmshave been used, particularly if
they're looking for business inthe States.
Their pitches have had to bevery inclusive.
They've had to give out verystrong messages about how
inclusive they were as anorganization, as a business, and

(13:45):
they feel from those that Ispoke to yesterday, that that's
changed for them.
They've not changed asbusinesses.
They still want to be inclusive, but they're conscious that in
some circumstances theirlanguage needs to change because
it's not well received, andthat's that's.
That's quite.
That's quite tough for a spacelike ip, where it is a business
to business relationship, andthat's and it's global?

Speaker 1 (14:08):
yeah, it is.
It's a really difficult one foremployers because there's
there's messaging these are bigclients.
There's there's messagingvis-a-vis clients.
There's messaging in the sortof compliance context you know
where is your risk going to comefrom if you say the wrong
things to the wrong people.
But there's also messagingvis-a-vis your staff, who want
to hear that you still careabout diversity, because
otherwise you've just beenpaying lip service to it all

(14:31):
these years and that's not goingto impress them and you need to
keep your staff.
You need to keep them well Aemployed with you, not moving on
elsewhere, but you also need tokeep them motivated and
productive and generallycomfortable.
So it's really difficultbalancing all those different
decisions and ways of messaging,and IP Inclusive is hoping to
pull together an event soonwhere the senior people in the

(14:53):
profession can perhaps gettogether a very informal chat
and house round table and justhave a chat about what are the
issues for IP sector employersat the moment.
In this context, how are wegoing to message things and how
are we going to protectourselves whilst also sticking
to our principles?

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Can I plug that time a bit more, actually, because
that's quite exciting.
We've been talking about howthat might go, and I think we're
looking at two real questions,which is, to the extent I can
influence it, what does myorganisation do?
And then, from a personalperspective, what might I do or
might I avoid as well.
So I think it should be areally interesting one actually.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
That's probably going to be November time, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (15:47):
So you've got plenty of time to it and how we can
help For me because IP Inclusivesits I don't know how to
explain this sits outside of thekind of core IP world but also
spans it, so it's always sort oflike it encompasses it.
In that sense, it's always forus been the forum where we could
have these difficultconversations and I think that's

(16:07):
been one of its greatestachievements, I think, is
providing the place where we cantalk like we're talking now and
be challenged and be stretchedand all of those kinds of things
where we can talk like we'retalking now and be challenged
and be stretched and all ofthose kinds of things.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
We're really proud of the fact that we've been
looking at what are the biggestimpacts we've had over the last
10 years, because it's a nicething to look back on as you
reach this anniversary and we'regoing to put out an impact
report which sort of pullstogether all the ideas about
where our stakeholders thinkwe've been successful.
But starting difficultconversations and, more
importantly, providing safespaces for them to continue has

(16:39):
been a key part of what we'vedone.
And another thing I think hascontributed to our success over
the 10 years is we're kind of aunique blend of the
pan-professional but thesector-specific, if you know
what I mean.
So it's for anyone who works inthe IP professions, no matter
what their role or theirbackground.
So that's the pan-professionalbit.
But because we'resector-specific, everything we

(17:00):
talk to one another about,everything we learn from one
another, can be focused andrelevant, and so we're sort of
bringing people together from awide space but in a very
structured way, and I thinkthat's helped us reach the
position we're in now.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
We talked a bit about and Lee mentioned this as well
there's always going to beadjustments and shifts and
everything else, and you couldlook at this whole DEI or
whatever movement as a kind of apendulum.
It's obviously swung back a bit.
Do you feel it's swung backbeyond where you all started,
andrea, or in a better placeholistically than we were 10
years ago?

Speaker 1 (17:33):
It's definitely not swung back to where we started.
So we can we can take comfortfrom that.
I mean, I don't know if youremember, lee, but back in 2015,
when we held that first roundtable, there were a lot of
people who said why are youholding a meeting about
diversity?
What's the problem?
yeah, remember there were thosewho suspected there might be a
problem but didn't have a cluehow to tackle it and were

(17:54):
worried about doing so.
We have come on in leaps andbounds as a sector and also as a
wider community.
I think our society does lookat diversity and inclusion
differently now and, importantly, the next generation does, and
they're going to be our flagbearers, I think, and that's why
it still has to be relevant toIP sector employers, because

(18:16):
your future talent is going tocome from a generation that does
notice these things, that doescare about these things.
So, yeah, we're in a muchbetter place even now, even
through this somewhat turbulenttime, we're better off than we
were in 2015.
I mean in 2015, I suppose a lotof this nasty stuff that's

(18:36):
happening people might not havebatted an eyelid about in 2015
that's actually.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
Thank you for that.
I didn't know what your answerwas going to be and I was quite
nervous when I asked thequestion, so I was really
heartened by that answer.
Thank you, it's good.
It's your point, lee, isn't it?
Things are always going tocorrect and adjust and things
like that, but the direction oftravel is good, which is really
important.
I was going to ask if I mightactually about.
You mentioned the organic growthof ip inclusive and uh, that's
what that's part of its charm.
I think that means it's naturaland it's responding to needs

(19:03):
rather than, you know, beingorchestrated, which can push
things in in weird directions.
But one thing I love about umip inclusive is whenever I go to
the website, I always remindmyself of the various um, the
various communities that you'veyou've built up.
Well, no, like I say not that Ithink that's built up within ip

(19:23):
inclusion is probably the thebest way to put that, and some
of them certainly 10 years ago Idon't I can completely see
would have not such raised aneyebrow, just have people
scratching, thinking, never eventhought about that one.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
So it's quite exciting to see that grow yeah,
I think the communities are, insome ways, one of the best parts
of what we've achieved and thatthey have grown from the ground
up as well.
So we we have not decided we'llhave a community on something.
We've waited for people to saywe'd like to have a community on
this and we're prepared to putit together.
Okay, ip inclusive will support.

(19:55):
For a while we had a communityfor non-traditional family
members and that was there whenit was needed and then, when it
was no longer needed to the sameextent, it ceased to become an
IP inclusive community.
So that's a nice sort of that'sa natural way of developing.
Nothing's enforced.
In the same way, we started outvery tentatively with a working

(20:18):
group looking at perimenopausesupport a couple of years ago
and that gained so much momentumthat it became a formal
community and is now IPORS.
So, again, responding to whatpeople were saying on the ground
Back in 2015, you just thought,okay, diversity, you're
probably going to have a womenin IP group, fair enough.
And we did and we have done andit's very, very strong.

(20:39):
They might have thought you'dhave something for people from
what they called BAMEbackgrounds back then.
Yeah, we have IP and me forpeople from minority ethnic
backgrounds, but the others,yeah, it was less clear they
were going to emerge.
I think IP Out has been a hugesuccess story because I think in
2015, there were LGBTQ plusprofessionals in IP, almost

(21:02):
certainly, but they didn't talkabout it.
And suddenly there's a group ofpeople who say, okay, we are
prepared to step up to theplatform and talk about this and
support other people in thesame boat.
Suddenly, there was IP Out.
They had this most fantasticlaunch event I mean, they know
how to party and there werefeather boas and Darren Smith
wore his multicolouredtechnicolour waistcoat and we

(21:26):
had that fabulous event.
But it was a point at whichpeople in IP realised, oh, there
is a place for me here and Ican talk about it and I can find
other people in similar,similar positions.
So you know, real success storythere the ip ability one as
well.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
I think again, neurodiversity.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
I'm not sure I'd heard that phrase 10 years ago
no, no, we didn't talk aboutneurodiversity 10 years ago, um.
So disability support heapsbetter now, thanks to the hard
work that ip ability are doing,and a big part of that is
supporting people who areneurodivergent in some way, and
also carers, you know, often theforgotten people who weren't
given particular support.

(22:05):
They're being championed aswell by ip ability, and then
we've got ip futures who aresort of looking after people in
the early stages of theircareers.
So there's a real, really nicesuite of support networks here,
and the great thing is A thatthey're all open to allies and
always have been.
So women in IP is for people ofall genders, so long as they

(22:26):
care about the issues thataffect those that identify as
women.
Ip and Me is there for whiteallies as well as people from
minority ethnic backgrounds.
So they're all open to alliesand that gives you this
wonderful intersectional kind ofapproach to diversity, which
means everyone can be involvedsomewhere in some way.
We can all be allies to someonesomehow, and they also work

(22:48):
together and they do a lot ofthings together our communities
and that's made them stronger inaggregate lot of things
together our communities andthat's made them stronger in
aggregate.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
I've always thought that concept ally which again 10
years ago I wouldn't have knownabout has allowed the movement
to be adopted by everybody in away that was difficult before,
when you could identify aminority that you basically
belong to, which is like me andI won't speak for you, lee, but
certainly me I've always beenbang in the middle of the bell
curve in terms of, you know, allthe normal flags apply to me,

(23:19):
as they were, so it's brilliantto have this allyship concept.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
It's really important that those people feel they've
got a role here and help us out,because historically those are
the people that did tend tooccupy the positions of power.
So unless we've got them onboard as well, we're just, you
know, we're beating against abrick wall.
So it's so important to havethe allies helping out, because

(23:46):
the people in the positions ofrelative privilege are best
placed to to make positivechanges unconscious privilege.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
That's what we were talking about, wasn't it?

Speaker 1 (23:54):
I remember yeah, I think people are becoming more
conscious now of privilege andprivilege is not to make
positive changes.
Unconscious privilege that'swhat we were talking about,
wasn't it?
I remember?
Yeah, I think people arebecoming more conscious now of
privilege, and privilege is notsuch an it needn't be such an
emotive thing.
Yes, I have privileges that Irecognise relative to people who
are disabled, people in allsorts of other positions, but
equally, there are people whohave privileges relative to me,
and that's how intersectionalityworks.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
We all help one another to the the other thing,
as I mentioned quickly, lee andI actually was chatting to
Andrea about 45 minutes ago, soI'm kind of teed up a little bit
is that you were saying, andrea, that kind of allyship has been
a big theme for you guys overthe last couple of years, like
you said, but you're shiftingnow.
You're shifting the focus alittle bit.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
You were saying Towards the end of our two-year
business plan, which get morechallenging out in the wider
world.
What's really going to beimportant about IP Inclusive is

(25:09):
it provides that safe andsupportive community for
individual IP professionals.
So there will be a change offocus.
Watch this space.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
So that was going to be my question.
Let's roll it back a wee bit.
It may be about 10 minutes ago.
You talked about thecelebratory things that ip
inclusive are doing.
So how are you mark in the 10years, what are the activities
that ip inclusive will beinvolved in this year that are
about celebration?
Because it feels like westarted to send a little bit of
a downer in terms of thinkingabout the current climate and
stuff.

(25:34):
So let's, yeah, let's, let'smove it up.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
B so we've got a working group that's um been
putting together ideas for wayswe can celebrate on the limited
budget that we have.
You know what can we do?
That's going to have a bigimpact to make everyone feel
really celebratory.
And our annual meeting on 2ndof April was the start of that
really and it was a wonderfuloccasion.
It was a little bit longer thanour usual annual meetings and a

(25:59):
bit more special and we had aproper panel discussion and lots
and lots of deliberation of thethings that the communities
have been up to and how strongip inclusive felt, even in the
wake of what's going on around.
So that was a nice startingpoint.
Caris bello and fellows andassociates have kindly designed
us a new anniversary logo, whichyou may have seen, and then

(26:20):
super kindly paid for that to beput on a banner that we can
take along proudly to our eventsand things.
We had cupcakes with the logoon at the annual event.
These sound like little thingsbut they, they all sort of make
us feel a little bit morecelebratory.
And then over the course of theyear we've we did an impact uh
survey not long ago of ourcharter signatories and

(26:43):
individual supporters and we'regoing to put together an impact
report based on that, and Ithink the theme will loosely be
10 years, 10 impacts, 10 reallygood things that IP Inclusive
has managed to achieve in those10 years, and then, hopefully
towards the end of the year, wecan start some discussions about
OK, so 10 things we're going todo going forward, 10 things we

(27:04):
can commit to to keep themomentum.
So there will be, hopefully,things like this podcast.
There will be other podcasts ifwe can organise them.
There will be some events.
We have a coffee roulette inthe offing for later in the year
.
We're writing about theanniversary wherever we can.
You know if anyone who'sprepared to publish us will

(27:24):
write or speak about it, butit's.
It's generally about sort ofreflecting on the impact that
we've had and how we can buildon that.
What's going to be importantabout our priorities, which I
think have become particularlyimportant because of what's
happening on happening outside.
That's a bit of a waffly answer, isn't it?
We're trying to stay positiveand this is a good hook to have

(27:47):
for us.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
It was a waffly answer but also tantalising
hooks that you're not going tolet us have, are you?
We're going to be talking aboutthese 10 great achievements,
but I'm not going to tell younow.
We're going to be thinkingabout the 10 great things we
know of the future, but notgoing to tell you just yet.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
Absolutely yes, you've got to keep people
interested.
But I think something else thatcomes out of this somewhat
waffly and random answer is thatIP Inclusive has very few
resources.
So everything we do we do on ashoestring.
So we're having to look atthings which give us a bit more
bang for our buck, really, andwe're involving lots of
volunteers wherever we can to dothings for free, because they

(28:23):
too want to celebrate.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
Is there more that we can do by way of fundraising,
generating income?

Speaker 1 (28:30):
I think, just to keep on asking, in particular, the
companies that work in thissector.
I know things are tight on theEDI budget front, but if you
want a really cost-effective wayof spending what little edi
budget you have left, ipinclusive is where it should go,
because you need us to keepgoing.

(28:51):
I think the ip sector needs ipinclusive to keep going to get
us through the storm, and it canonly keep going if the
businesses that care about itand whose employees use it help
to fund it.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
If people were interested in doing such a thing
, where do they look to find out?
Can we stick it in the blurb aswell?
I think, lee, I guess.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
Oh yeah, we can definitely put links in the
blurb.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Yeah, we've got a fundraising page on the website,
or people can just emailcontact at ipinclusiveorguk and
just, yeah, I'd like to make adonation, we'll do the rest.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
We also have a just giving page for individual
donations, but it's all on thefundraising page of the website
thank you, and it is a greatplace to put it, and also the
coordination um, I was alwaysworries me when charitable slash
, your well-meaningorganizations end up competing
with each other.
I think, using the great workthat IP Inclusive has done and
linking in If you've got aninitiative in this area, I think

(29:49):
my comment is always the firstthing We'll check in with IP
Inclusive and find out what'sgoing on so that we have
collaboration, not competition,kind of part of this community
idea that you're talking about.
I think.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
But equally, you know , don't take us for granted.
We can't survive without thefunding and the support and the
volunteers that are here.
So if you need the ip inclusiveto be there in the background
to turn to when things get tough, there is a bit of a cough to
it.
Um, you know, help if you canjust actually one quick sales
point.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
I think for me really is that I think ip inclusive is
actually a bit of a flagship tothe uk ip community more
broadly because it's I thinkit's quite famous worldwide and
it's kind of absolutetrailblazer.
I think that I'm not I stilldon't know if there's any other
national organization or thelone regional that has something
quite like this.
Have you come across?

Speaker 1 (30:40):
yeah, the, the australian patent attorneys
representative body, did get intouch a few years back and say
we, you know, we'd like to setup a model similar to ip
inclusive and I don't know howfar they've got with that, but
we offered a bit of support andguidance where we could.
Yeah, the impression I'mgetting is that other countries
don't have a similar model andit may be that exactly the same
structure wouldn't work else inthe same way elsewhere.

(31:02):
But to have that sort ofpan-professional but
sector-specific thing, I don'tknow.
I think the uk is leading theway there.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
We can be proud of that it has to be it almost has
to be structural, because I'vehad conversations around the
world on this kind of topic overthe last few years and
everybody's got a different takeon what's important and what's
and it's so cultural, what thekey, key elements are for
different places.
But what is important that thisorganisation brings is that it
can be done and you can dealwith that difference very easily

(31:30):
, but the structure and theenergy, and long may it stay.
A PTA, by the way, a ParentTeacher Association, is lovely.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
This is an interesting point though, gwilym
, because I'm not sure that willtranslate to every country.
You talked about the culturaldifferences.
The UK really understands thissort of volunteer thing that we
do things on a shoestring andeveryone does stuff for free.
It's the old wartime spirit,isn't it?
But I'm not sure that wouldtranslate into every other
jurisdiction, so maybe we've gotthe edge there.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
I've got a closer question and that would take
things on a little bit longer.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
No, no, no, we've got a closer.
We always have a closer.
I'm glad you've got one.
I had an idea in the end, butI'm glad you've got one.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
Oh, did you?
Do you want to say your ideawas?

Speaker 2 (32:16):
No, because I think you it was no, unless it's yours
.
I'm just going to say oh, forgoodness sake, I had that one,
but go, go, go.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
I've never tried to remember what it was because
I've just been talking.
Now it's kind of like slippedout of my pea brain, which is
quite a good brain to have on atwo eyed peas podcast yeah, you
could have written.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
You should write things down.
I should?

Speaker 3 (32:38):
I should write things down, shouldn't I?
I should, I should pop it inthe chat to you.
I forgot to do that.
I may not have a closer nowit's gone.
Do I do mine then?

Speaker 2 (32:45):
yeah, go on fine and you kind of you kind of close
off a little bit, but that'scool, that's fine, I'm good.
Which was?
Uh, andrea, as lee picked up,you mentioned that you know, you
, the 10 great things you'vedone in 10 years.
I was going to ask you what thebest one was, but it sounds
like that's going to be a secret.
That's a teaser for later, soI'm not going to do that.
But in a similar way, lee,what's the best thing you've
done the last 10 years?

Speaker 3 (33:06):
the best thing I've done in the last 10 years.
Oh wow, so so many things.
Uh, do you know what?
I'm going to be really boringwillem, and it's going to.
You're going to hate this, butit's cptpp brilliant.
That stands out for meprofessionally to have to have
been involved in that work andto deliver the right outcome for
the uk profession will alwaysbe something I'll be fiercely

(33:28):
proud of.
So, yeah, you don't get.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
You don't get a humorous one for me this time
around well, yeah, you do,because, as far as I'm concerned
, what you're most proud of isthat you can actually say the
acronym in full withouthesitating.
I think that's what you're mostproud of comprehensive and
progressive agreement fortrans-pacific partnership cptpp
that's what you're really proudof in the last 10 years.
Um, andrea, it doesn't have tobe a giveaway for ip inclusive,

(33:51):
but what have you got the last10 years?
It could be ip inclusiveactually.
I think I've got it.
I think I know what it is.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
I think it quite possibly is.
I mean, I'm proud of a lot ofthe stuff that I did when I was
super president and you and Imade that quite an interesting
time and there was lots of stuffwe changed back then.
I really loved the meet, themembers visits that we did.
They were just something elseand to everyone that gave me
biscuits and cakes, thank you.
I still remember those withfondness.

(34:17):
And, yeah, I mean IP inclusivehas to be the crowning glory and
what a nice way to finish thecareer.
I'm not working in IP anymore,but I'm still working with the
people in IP that I really value.
They're wonderful people.
They've shown that throughwhat's happened with IP
Inclusive and I think ofeverything IP Inclusive's done.
Just starting the difficultconversations and keeping them

(34:39):
going is the underlying thingthat's made a difference.
Keeping them going is theunderlying thing that's made a
difference, and organisationslike SIPA and SITMA and the IPO
they've all helped us with that,as have lots and lots of
individual professionals intheir firms.
So thank you to everyone who'sbeen involved.
Really, it's not my work.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
So come on then, gwilym, come on.
You only asked that questionbecause you've got an absolute
stonker to declare now.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
You've got to have a stonker.
Well, I think if I was to saymy whole life, I'd feel a bit
guilty for not mentioninggetting married and having a
baby, but they never listen.
So I'm not going to bank thatone.
But no, on the professionalworld, I think it was working
with some awesome people and itwas a really noticeable group of

(35:29):
people over the pandemic invarious different guises with
yourself lee, with um managingpartner richard harris somewhere
at my office, with people atthe epo, with the ipo and being
part of quite an impressivecommunity who not always just
because it was their job title,because they thought it was the
right thing and they kept a lotof things going and made things
a lot better than they mightotherwise have been within the
UK kind of IP world over thatweird year or two.
Looking back, that was a real,genuine global crisis that you

(35:51):
know.
I was part of a group of peoplethat made, I hope, a little bit
of a difference then yeah,that's a good point.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
Almost feels like it's in the dark, distant past
now, doesn't it?
We've sailed on past that.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Did it even happen?
I remember I'm sure I saidsomething about 2019, I feel
like all the big crises are overnow.
I think I was right.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
It's had a lasting impact, though, and a lot of it
for the better.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Yeah, I think so.
I think so.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, we needed a bit of a reset in some areas,
didn't we?
And it gave us that yeah,totally that's good hi, andrew.
Thank you so much for coming on.
William, thank you for pitchingup again.
It's always good to see you.
Hopefully you've enjoyed thepodcast.
If you have, then just leave usa little review somewhere, and
then people will learn where tofind us, and that's good.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
We'll see you next time.
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