May 27, 2025 • 28 mins
Lee and Gwilym have landed in San Diego for the INTA 2025 Annual Meeting! Elisabeth Stewart Bradley, INTA President and Vice President of Innovation Law: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Brand Protection at Bristol Myers Squibb, shares her journey from English literature major to IP lawyer, and how the organisation is evolving to support its members in a rapidly changing landscape. Her Presidential Task Force is focused on helping IP professionals adapt to technological disruption and showcase their value beyond what AI can offer.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Gollum, we're in San Diego.
We're in San Diego in a box Ina box, yeah.
So it looks like a small fishtank.
Well, a large fish tankactually, doesn't it?
You could get a shark in here,probably, yeah, or probably a
small whale, a small whale, asmall whale, yeah.
It's a fish tank, though, andwhales aren't fish.
Oh, it's a mammal tank.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, so that a dolphin tank yeah.
What are we here?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
So we're here because we're podcasting from Inter
again.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
How cool is that?
It is cool, and they've givenus this box.
It's fantastic.
That's not a nice post-expresssize, but we're right in the
middle of some giant exhibitionhalls.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
So it's beautiful, and we should probably say that
it's early o'clock for us at themoment, isn't it?
We've not actually done anypodcasting yet.
We're just getting a feel forthe place.
When there's a bit of a buzzgoing on later on, it's going to
make the podcast quiteauthentic, isn't it?
Some bustling in the backgroundwell, hopefully we just started
messaging out should we putsome chairs outside for people
to come and sit and watch us?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
that's really funny.
Let's do that.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
We can steal them from that booth over there
someone's to come and charge usfor them, though, aren't?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
they.
I am really looking forward toit.
It's going to be good fun.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We've got a great line-up, solet's crack on.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Lee Davis and Gwilym Roberts are the two IPs in a pod
and you are listening to apodcast on intellectual property
Brought to you by the CharteredInstitute of Patent Attorneys.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Well, now we've got on the podcast this year's INTA
president.
Do you see what I did there aswell?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I said INTA because I now know that that's the way to
say it, and not to keep sayinginter.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
INTA is the corporate .
Speaker 2 (01:43):
The cons guys at inter get really cross when you
call them that.
I've got it.
I've got it INTA.
So.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
INTA president Elizabeth Stewart Bradley.
Yes.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Did I get your name right, Elizabeth?
Perfect, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Thank you so much, so happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I think you said while we were getting ready this
is your second one.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Second podcast in my life yeah, who did you do the
first one with PLI PracticingLaw Institute.
It was with ATN, the CEO ofINTA, and it was a chance to
talk about IP and it wasfantastic, so I was thrilled to
be invited here.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Was it as professional as this one.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
It had a different vibe, but it was on camera which
adds a certain other element.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, we don't do that, it's a shame because I was
thinking it's a shame thecamera's not here because it
can't pick up your amazingpresidential outfit, that you
have to wear the big hat.
It's gone to waste the robes.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
The scepter.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Thank you for having us in.
Oh sorry, oh, i-n-t-a, i-n-t-a.
Thank you for having us here.
Thank you for this amazingpodcasting booth, which is just
extraordinary, wonderful.
Thank you for having us here.
Thank you for this amazingpodcasting book, which is just
extraordinary, and thank you forguesting on the podcast.
So it's a conversation and it'syour conversation.
It's about you and the workthat you do, so do you want to
start off there by telling usgive us the potted career
history, whatever?
Speaker 4 (02:56):
you're happy to share .
First let me put you both atease.
You may hear me say into aswell.
So actually, please don't worry.
No, honestly, honestly.
INTA I will probably say butit's not a crime to say INTA.
So so yeah, actually I wasgoing to be an English professor
(03:16):
and I went to college inVirginia and I was an English
literature major and I was apsychology minor.
No thoughts of law, no legalmembers of my family, and then,
right before I graduated trulythe last second I took a
business law class secondsemester of senior year and I
loved it and it opened my eyesand I had no idea about that
career.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So just a little kind of segue that way.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
Just a tiny turn.
Tiny turn in the road, and Ibecame a paralegal for two years
because I thought it was alittle bit rash to just head off
to law school.
Having had, you know, twomonths of exposure to it, I
wanted to learn a little bitmore, so I worked for a law firm
in Richmond, virginia, instructured finance, which as you
imagine an English major is notparticularly well versed in
(03:59):
that, but that was superinteresting and that didn't put
you off, it didn't put me.
And in fact, a few lawyers triedto put me off and saying this
is a really stressful career,think about it.
So it was interesting to havethat perspective, but I did
decide to give it a shot and Iapplied to law school and I did
not take one intellectualproperty law class in law school
(04:19):
, which is probably notsomething that would happen
today.
I think today it's part of thecourt curriculum, but I was
going to be a litigator.
I was completely focused on mootcourt and arguments and that
sort of thing.
And I got to go to New York asa summer associate and graduated
and moved to New York City,Started as a litigator and loved
it.
They rotate you around.
(04:39):
So I did employment law,insurance law and then one of
the first cyber squatting casesin the world came through the
courts in New York City and ourclient was able to withstand it.
A lot of people settle.
They kind of get blackmailed inthe settling group but our
client refused to do that, andso we went to court and it was
fascinating.
From there I said I need to domore of this activity.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
That's exciting.
You're making law there as well.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
That's exciting.
You're making law there as well.
That's groundbreaking stuff.
It was technology.
No one really even understoodhow domain names work.
To be honest, that was quite alarge part of it, and, yes, so
from there I actually changedfirms to go to a firm that
helped me learn on the job, andone of my biggest clients was
Cadbury chocolate, and so fromthere Proper chocolate.
Proper chocolate.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Now owned by Hershey right.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
No, no, no, Cadbury is now owned.
Actually, they were acquired byKraft and then became Mondelez.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Right.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Yes, but I got to come to the UK a fair amount
when I worked for Cadbury.
Yeah, bourneville, bourneville.
There's a wonderful factory andhistory up there and it was
amazing.
So, yeah, that was thebeginning of the IP career, I
guess and tell us a little bitabout how INTI operates.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
So how long was your presidency and when did you
start it?
Speaker 4 (05:56):
perfect, so I began volunteering with INTI soon
after I joined Cadbury and youstart on committees.
I was on the famous and wellknown Mark committee soon after
I joined Cadbury and you starton committees.
I was on the famous andwell-known Mark Committee, which
made sense with Cadbury.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
And you start getting exposed to committee work and,
depending on your interests, youcan become more and more
involved, and I really loved it.
I loved the mission that INTAwas doing.
I loved the additional trainingI was getting to my private
practice, leadershipopportunities, exposure to
industries from around the world, and so I kept getting more
involved.
I served on a presidential taskforce on brands and innovation,
(06:29):
which was all very new at thetime.
You know, there was no socialmedia.
I mean, there was truly barelyyou know, barely people were
comfortable on the internet.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
What a strange world it was back then.
I know it's tremendous, Atleast I understood it.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I didn't get this one at all.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Yeah, and so from there, I eventually was asked to
serve on the board of directors, which is just a tremendous
opportunity to see amicus briefsthat are coming through and
have the chance to.
How big is the board?
The board is about 35 members.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
Global.
It's in-house external counselyeah, yes, in-house external
counsel, yes.
And then I was asked toco-chair the annual meeting that
would have been in Singapore in2020, but, of course, it went
virtual yes.
And so I had a bit of a breakin between the board of
directors and after that theyasked me to become an officer
and the officer track at thetime and that's some of the news
I wanted to share with you.
(07:17):
At the time it was a six-yearladder, so you start as
secretary and you learn atremendous amount about the
organization that way and thenyou become treasurer and you
learn about the finances and howimportant the annual meeting is
to INTA's operations.
And then you become a vicepresident, and so it's a
six-year ladder.
So yeah so when people ask howlong is the presidency, it
itself is a year, but it takesquite a bit to get to that year.
(07:41):
And it's nice because it's verycohesive.
That's quite a commitment whenyou're working.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
It is.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
it is, but it has tremendous benefits.
So I think the two kind ofdovetail really nicely.
I think it helped me excel inmy career because I had such
opportunities.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
You said there was some news there.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Yes.
So INTA, you will hear in thestrategic plan which is being
unveiled today at the openingceremonies.
We have a new strategic plan.
It's going from 2026 to 2029.
And as part of that strategicplan, one of the goals is to
help build the INTA of thefuture.
The world is changingtremendously.
How do we make sure that ourmembers and INTA itself keeps up
(08:18):
with this pace?
So the officer track used toonly be open to corporate
members, such as myself.
Six years, quite a commitment,as you've mentioned.
But we have now changed that sothat two of the positions are
actually now open to law firmassociate members, which has
many benefits, one of whichshortens the corporate ladder,
(08:38):
the officer ladder forcorporates.
So we think that will make it alittle bit easier to get people
to get the commitment fromtheir company and to but also
gets more diverse voices, getsmore diverse voices and we have
some tremendously talentedassociate members that it used
to be serving on the board orperhaps the one council spot.
Those were your opportunitiesfor leadership and now we have
(08:59):
this chance to say, hey, you canactually join the officer track
, which I think is superexciting.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
We've had a lot of positive feedback that's quite a
couple of interesting pointsthere.
One is cipa cipa, as we're nowcalling it.
Yeah, we're cipa cipa, we haveit's all voluntary.
Um, all the offices, majorityof the office is voluntary, and
so finding a president, Isuspect probably less onerous
than what you may have to do.
I'm guessing, even then, though, to finding a president, I
suspect, is probably lessonerous than what you may have
(09:23):
to do.
I'm guessing, even then, though, to find a president whose
business is comfortable withthat.
You know, giving them thatspace is a big ask, and we get
great support from everyone whodoes do it.
But yeah, it's tricky, isn't it?
And on that point, how onerousis your year?
Is it nonstop?
Do you get to do any day job?
How does it work?
How earnest is your year?
Is it non-stop?
Do you get?
Speaker 4 (09:41):
to do any day job.
How does it work?
It's actually quite cyclicaland because I've been able to
observe this, you know, whilebeing other positions.
I was prepared for it, and soaround.
Of course, the annual meeting.
I would say this is peak, peaktime commitment, which rightly
so.
But there are four boardmeetings a year and including
government affairs programs.
(10:02):
Four board meetings a year andincluding government affairs
programs.
And then on top of thatthrilling part of the presidency
is getting to do delegations toip offices around the world
sure so we kicked off january inottawa with the canadian ip
office, which was just such atremendous way to start, and
then in april we were inbrussels meeting with the eu
parliament and lots of othermembers of the government.
So so, around those events, thecommitment spikes.
(10:24):
But then, for example, I thinkI had half of March, half of
April all to myself.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I envision.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
June will be fairly non-INTA related.
I actually I was prepared forit, so I think it's manageable
and I'm lucky that my company isreally supportive and my
immediate manager is incrediblysupportive and I have the best
team ever who are here.
We're all trying to keep thework going while we're all at
IMTA, so it's truly a collectiveeffort.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I think a lot of the organizations do see that with
these organizations like IMTAand SEPA, because somebody's got
to do it but it is for thebenefit of the greater good.
So I think people want to takeit in turns to kind of delegate.
So it's good to hear whenbusinesses give you that space.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Yes, absolutely, because INTA is so involved in
policy and advocacy and thatserves the industry, serves my
company.
So it truly is a virtuous cyclewhich I think helps show the
value of the role.
And, not to mention, it's suchan amazing community, the people
here.
You meet them 20 years ago.
They become lifelong friendsfrom around the world.
(11:28):
We truly know people in almostevery country.
It's special.
It really is special.
So I get a tremendous amount ofenergy from it and I leave from
these meetings just reallymotivated and so impressed by
our community.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Can I ask a question about the presidency?
So at SIPA we have a so it's athree-year gig, so not six years
.
So you're coming as the vicepresident, you'll serve a year
as president, and then you'llserve a year as the immediate
past president, and then you'refree and to a large extent the
agenda is set for the president,because there are always things
that SIPA is working on in theIP space.
That's perfectly on our radar.
(12:01):
But equally, we ask ourpresident to also bring with her
or him some kind of theme orpersonal ambitions.
Do you get the chance to shakethe presidency in that way?
Do you bring stuff into INTAthat otherwise wouldn't be there
?
Speaker 4 (12:15):
It's a super question .
One of the most excitingopportunities of being president
is you have a presidential taskforce and you get to set that
agenda, that theme, of course,making sure it aligns with
priorities of INTA.
But that is the chance I had tolook at INTA and what it has
done for me and where we want itto be in the future, and it's
(12:37):
amazing how it corresponds withthe strategic plan and wanting
to ensure INTA itself isevolving.
I want to ensure that ourmembers are thriving in this
incredibly dynamic, complexenvironment, and so what my task
force is looking at issupporting members as their
practice changes around them, astechnologies are changing
around them.
There's hardly anyone who doesjust trademark law anymore.
(12:59):
It's now become incrediblybroad and, depending on your
company, you may be doingpatents and treatments,
copyrights, design, datacompliance.
So I got to say I would like tofind ways for INTA to support
its members as this happensReally innovative, hopefully
actionable ways to take back totheir practice and say this is
how I can help us, this is howI'm adding value.
So that was really important tome and, uh, I guess if I have a
(13:23):
north star, there's probably two.
Two parts to it is service.
I want to serve our members.
We're here to serve the members, so I'm listening to everyone
as we walk around.
What do you need?
What can we do more of?
Yeah, and show our appreciationfor them, but given today's
world budgetary pressures,getting the money to attend
these events, you want to makesure IT is adding value.
So that's what I'm trying to dothrough my presidential task
(13:44):
force.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Service and value.
That's a great message.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Yeah, and it feels good.
And as I speak with members, itseems to resonate with them
that we're all feeling pressureto do more with less.
And how can you support yourrole given AI?
How do you show that you'rebetter than AI?
You know all of these things.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I was going to ask about that because you said your
task force is going to look atsome of the changes and things
that are happening and, ofcourse, that ties in with your
26 to 29 strategic plan, whichis about a changing environment.
What are the threats, then, thethreats or challenges that
you're seeing?
I think you mentioned AI, forexample.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Yes, AI, emerging technologies, I think, budgetary
pressures, also complexgeopolitics, you know, trying to
navigate both kind of globalism.
And then now we're seeingnationalism.
And how do we as global membersnavigate that world?
And I think we are expected tokind of go beyond the average
(14:38):
run of the day, run of the milltask.
We're asked to add strategicvalue, and so I think our
members, now it's not enough tocome and give good legal advice.
You need to be aware of theentire landscape that you're
operating in, the competitivepressures.
What are your businesspriorities and how are you going
to help your business achievethat?
So I think you have to come inmuch more strategically thinking
(15:01):
than perhaps we were even twodecades ago.
We came out with a veryspecific purpose Trademark law.
We're going to be the besttrademark lawyers we can be.
But now, unfortunately, I don'tthink that's enough To be
considered a successful in-housemember.
You're going to have to bring alot more to the table.
So that's a lot of pressure onpeople.
(15:22):
And you know when you're readingthe headlines about the, the
job cuts and you know thecutting back everywhere, so that
that just we're operating underpressure.
So I I think inta is reallyuniquely positioned to help
support our members through thatand to be that resource that
you know.
Once you have the membershipfee, you have access to an
incredible amount of trainingand webinars and materials that
you don't have to pay for.
So that's really nice.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
So one of the things that we always find quite
fascinating or I find quitefascinating.
So as a Chief Executive of CIPA, obviously I see the
relationship between my membersas volunteers, whether that be
on a committee or so.
We don't have a board.
We have a council.
Mine meets 12 times a year, sofour times a year would be
lovely I never do, but there wego.
But so four times a year wouldbe lovely.
I never do, but there we go,but also my staff, and I'm
(16:04):
imagining there's the samedynamic at INTA, so that could
be quite vibrant kind of thatrelationship.
Have you found that in yourtime as an officer?
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Yes, I am so impressed with the staff of INTA
and I imagine you've just, if Imay say, finished speaking with
Heather Steinmeier who wasincredibly impressive our chief
policy officer and our CEO, I'msure seeing him in action.
You'll see him in the openingceremony.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Etienne was on the podcast last year Fantastic.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
And you know this is not my day job, so I have people
helping me get through andunderstand.
And when we go to Brussels, youknow I'm there to represent the
brand perspective and to saythese are how we're seeing
counterfeits.
They're there talking about thenuances of policy and impact.
You know the counterfeitinglegislation and you know the
patent packages and they go intoexquisite detail about a
(16:53):
diverse range of issues.
The ITA staff is some of themost prepared members of any
organization that I feel sofortunate to work with them and
I don't think I could do thisjob without them.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I was going to say that's quite a scary environment
, isn't it, when you'reparachuted into meetings with
policymakers.
It's not my day job at all.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
Yeah, exactly, and you know I'm not used to it.
This role is almost likerunning a company, because
you're not just talking about IP, you're talking about you know.
How does the latest you know USadministration comments about
DEI?
How does that affect ourstrategic plan?
How does that affect ourmembers?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Can we talk a little bit about that?
Sure, is that okay?
Sure, happy to.
I opened the door to it, being,as we are here in the States,
we were quite scared to trampleour large feet but mine aren't
that big.
But, elizabeth, you've openedthe door, so let's go.
How does it feel to be workingat the moment in a political
(17:50):
kind of ideology or regime wherethe AI is being challenged in
this way?
Speaker 4 (17:53):
So you know, I think we are.
It's very typical in the US.
You switch administrationsoften every four years, so we
are accustomed to seeing swings.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, yeah, of course , typical in the.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
US, you switch administrations often every four
years, so we are accustomed toseeing swings, and so we have
noted that you're not going tohave the same approach to DEI
forever, and so I think, giventhe progress that was made a few
years ago, at some point youmight reach a tipping point
where it then has to startcoming back, and so I do think
what we're trying to do now isto ensure that we're supporting
our members, making them feelvalued and included.
(18:25):
This is such a diverseassociation.
We can do that in ways that arenot considered perhaps going
too far, so I think we'restriking the right balance.
Well, it's not even that.
We want to do things that havevalue for our members.
We don't want to do things justto do them right and so.
I think coming here, one of thebest things about INTA is every
(18:45):
voice is welcome.
Truly, you can bring anyviewpoint you have and you will
feel welcome here, and so Ithink we're still able to do
that, despite the changes thatwe have recently seen.
That's good.
Yeah and we feel good about thatand in fact, we still continue
that aspect, as a huge part ofour strategic plan is ensuring
that all members feel welcomeand being a good citizen in the
world.
(19:05):
You know how can we supportsmall SMEs and do pro bono work
and make sure that everyonefeels empowered.
So I feel comfortable actuallythat we found a path forward
that still respects the lawthat's now in the United States.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Ip has legislative boundaries.
I always struggle with that.
That is a beautiful thing,Legislative boundaries but it
doesn't have social boundaries,does it?
It is a global event in thatsense.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Yeah, that's very true, and often parts of IP are
not particularly controversial.
We are here IP supportsinnovation, ip supports
businesses, ip supports theeconomy.
Those are all positive thingsthat almost anybody can agree on
.
So there is a large amount ofthis space that doesn't have to
be political and it's really forthe good of the world, and so I
(19:51):
think INTA is able to kind offocus on where we can have a
positive impact.
Some of the other things letthat be out on the edges.
Let's focus on where we can makea positive difference, and I
actually feel really good aboutthat.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I might be inferring it.
I noticed walking around here,looking at some of the paperwork
and the banners and things, theletter CSR starting to reappear
.
I feel like I hadn't seen thatfor a few years, but that, in
the end, is perfectly acceptable.
I think corporate socialresponsibility was always a
really good way of putting itactually.
Um, so it's good, good to seethat yeah, absolutely I was
gonna ask actually.
So, as you said, this is one ofthe kind of pinnacle moments in
(20:26):
your, in your presidency.
How many times you're on stage,how much talking are you doing?
Are you just on show non-stopnow, or what?
Speaker 4 (20:33):
uh, so so the meeting officially kicked off.
Friday morning we had awonderful signing of a
memorandum of understanding withthe danish patent and Trademark
Office, so that was a great way, and that's.
You have some informalconversations, but you still
need to be prepared.
You know there's remarks forthat.
Then you know, I was just onstage right before I met with
you.
We have the in-housepractitioners committee, so I
was fortunate to be asked togive the welcoming remarks being
(20:55):
in-house.
You know that was reallyexciting to look out into the
audience of a few hundred ofyour closest friends.
I gave opening remarks at oneof the annual meeting receptions
when we were in Brussels, andthis is where I'd like to give a
little shout out to the ITAstaff.
They do help me.
You know.
These are remarks that youcould start with and then I can
make them my own.
So you know, that's actuallyreally helpful.
(21:16):
But the big event is thisafternoon, the opening
ceremonies at 4.30, where theco-chairs will go on first and
give a preview of the amazingweek ahead.
Then I'll go on and give myremarks, which you have actually
heard some of the themes righthere.
If you're able to attend, Ihope you can join us because, I
think it's very inspiring thosefirst few ceremonies.
I don't know.
The podcast will go out longafter you've done your welcoming
(21:38):
speech, so we're breaking nowalls here.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Great.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
And then I think I have at least three more opening
remarks that I'm giving.
I'm doing two more interviewsafter this throughout the week.
But honestly, you get into sortof this zone and it's really
exciting.
You want to communicate thethings that you're enthusiastic
about.
So I don't find it a chore.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
I find you know you come across as really
enthusiastic.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
I think people you know, when you see anybody in
the position of leadership, youkind of think, oh, they were
born to this and they know,they've always done this since
they were three no, because ofcourse you know you're going to.
So it sounds like you you'renot going to kind of go and curl
up, curl up in the ball at theend of the day.
No, no, I'd be doing.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Well, I guess you know I was the English major.
I love words, I love language.
You know, I find this justreally fun and enjoyable.
And I wouldn't say, you know,I've been doing this now 25
years.
When I was 23, I probably wouldhave been able to come in here
and talk to you.
I would have been a little morenervous, but a few years later
you get a little more practice,yeah so we're coming towards
(22:47):
time.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Can we close on?
I've got a really good questionI really want to ask a question
.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
You do that first thing.
Yes, okay, you should havekicked me under the table.
You know both our legs are tooshort anyway.
Well, that's giving a bit awaynow, anyway.
Um, that's why don't do a video, because it's how short my legs
are.
English literature let's talkabout that for a minute.
We know what we're doing.
My son actually did a degree inEnglish literature as well, and
I got to A levels.
I did that kind of thing and Iloved it.
(23:11):
Do you keep in touch with it?
Do you still love reading?
Do you?
Can you still read, becausesometimes people hate either.
You've got no time.
Are you still enjoying the restof the world?
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Actually, this is a super question because I did
find that for a while I had tomove away from novels and long
books and I was reading the NewYorker, for example, like
shorter bites of things that youcould process, because during
COVID things just got a bitoverwhelming.
But then I did consciously makea move back to reading.
I just finished Pillars of theEarth, which is Ken Follett,
which is all about building thecathedrals in the UK.
(23:42):
I think it was in the 1200s.
That was fascinating.
I'm reading Pachinko right now,which is a four-generation
story about Korean-Japanesefamilies, so I do love to read
and I think it's reallyimportant, even though we're
very tired.
It just opens up a wholedifferent world.
That's very creative and Ithink you know copyright is a
big, important part of ourpractices, and so I feel like
(24:04):
it's a great way to still kindof pay homage to you know, the
IP field.
But yeah, enjoy yourself too.
So I do still love reading.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
And who were you when you were doing your actual
degree?
Yeah, where were your focuses?
Speaker 4 (24:15):
So I had both American and English literature
focus.
So Wordsworth, Byron, thosewere some of my favorites.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
And then I took.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
I really loved Faulkner, Fitzgerald and
Hemingway.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Those were probably some of my wordsworth versus
Hemingway and Byron in therediverse range, though really
diverse, and that's the bestthing you know about an English
degree is it's truly diverse.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
I don't know.
Maybe, maybe I should havepursued an English literature
professor path, but I'm prettyhappy with the way things ended
up so I wanted to ask about thepatent track, if that's okay,
because obviously, gwilym and Iare here from the Chartered
Digital.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Patent Attorneys but we always stress that our
members do patents, trade works,designs, copyright, trade
secrets a lot, but we're quiteexcited about patents making a
formal sort of appearance atINTA.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Tell us a bit about that yes, and that also ties
back to the strategic plan whereover the years, we've moved the
plan.
Two cycles ago referred totrademarks, the current plan
refers to brands and now the newplan refers to intellectual
property, and that's verydeliberate.
We're looking at IP in aholistic view, but it also opens
the door to figure out how INTAcan help its members with
(25:24):
respect to patents, and there'smany different reasons for that.
For example, at my company, I'msitting around a table with
almost all other patentprofessionals and I need to be
versed and informed in at leastthe fundamentals of patents.
So I'm super excited that INTAis offering this to their
members.
We're starting with educationand information and helping arm
our brand professionals tounderstand a bit of the basics
(25:45):
of patents and then from therewe'll see where does inta go
with patents.
We're not ready yet to issuepolicy statements to be
advocating on the patent packagein brussels, you know, but, but
that is something that we knowis of great interest to our
companies, and so I agree, Ithink getting a little more
formal about it is exciting.
Are you able to attend any ofthe programming?
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I'm hoping to try and get on to some of it, but some
of it clashes with podcasting.
That's what we're here to do.
I mean, I would say, when youfeel you're ready to start
thinking about the policy stuff,reach out to us.
Fantastic, because we're alwayslooking for any organisation
that can amplify what we'resaying.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
We also like to feed into what you guys are doing
great.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
That sounds like a great opportunity.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I was quite excited.
Actually, my eyes have just litup.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
You mentioned that you continue as immediate past
president, so I will do the same.
So next year I'm immediate pastpresident and then I serve on
the board for two more years, soI'll be around.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
There's a nice kind of continuous cycle between this
and maybe I'll have a job.
I'm permanently around.
I can't get rid of him Can'tget rid of him.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Can't get rid of him, can't get rid of him, Can't get
rid of him.
So, Elizabeth, we're comingnear the end and our final
question is always the same, andthat's are you sitting there
thinking, phew, they didn't askme that, so is there any
question?
You dreaded being asked.
That hasn.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
Not dreading, actually, because having
listened to your podcast, I feltlike even if you asked me a
really hard question, you wouldat least be understanding as I
fumbled through it.
No, I guess I would say Ireally appreciate the
opportunity to get to speak toyou in this setting.
I think I personally do alittle better in these settings
versus, you know, a reallyformal interview.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
So it allows us to have a more real conversation.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
No, I guess I would love to encourage you to embrace
this week.
It's an amazing week.
It is truly the biggest IPevent of the year.
The energy here I'm not sureyou'll find elsewhere.
And I hope you also leavefeeling super excited.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Oh, I know we will.
Yeah, we did.
We got energized at Atlantalast year, which is why we're
back.
Good time out of an amazinglybusy schedule to share your
thoughts on the podcast it wasreally my pleasure thank you so
(28:18):
much.
Outro Music Thank you.
Gollum, we're in San Diego.
We're in San Diego in a box Ina box, yeah.
So it looks like a small fishtank.
Well, a large fish tankactually, doesn't it?
You could get a shark in here,probably, yeah, or probably a
small whale, a small whale, asmall whale, yeah.
It's a fish tank, though, andwhales aren't fish.
Oh, it's a mammal tank.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, so that a dolphin tank yeah.
What are we here?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
So we're here because we're podcasting from Inter
again.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
How cool is that?
It is cool, and they've givenus this box.
It's fantastic.
That's not a nice post-expresssize, but we're right in the
middle of some giant exhibitionhalls.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
So it's beautiful, and we should probably say that
it's early o'clock for us at themoment, isn't it?
We've not actually done anypodcasting yet.
We're just getting a feel forthe place.
When there's a bit of a buzzgoing on later on, it's going to
make the podcast quiteauthentic, isn't it?
Some bustling in the backgroundwell, hopefully we just started
messaging out should we putsome chairs outside for people
to come and sit and watch us?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
that's really funny.
Let's do that.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
We can steal them from that booth over there
someone's to come and charge usfor them, though, aren't?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
they.
I am really looking forward toit.
It's going to be good fun.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We've got a great line-up, solet's crack on.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Lee Davis and Gwilym Roberts are the two IPs in a pod
and you are listening to apodcast on intellectual property
Brought to you by the CharteredInstitute of Patent Attorneys.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Well, now we've got on the podcast this year's INTA
president.
Do you see what I did there aswell?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I said INTA because I now know that that's the way to
say it, and not to keep sayinginter.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
INTA is the corporate .
Speaker 2 (01:43):
The cons guys at inter get really cross when you
call them that.
I've got it.
I've got it INTA.
So.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
INTA president Elizabeth Stewart Bradley.
Yes.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Did I get your name right, Elizabeth?
Perfect, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Thank you so much, so happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I think you said while we were getting ready this
is your second one.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Second podcast in my life yeah, who did you do the
first one with PLI PracticingLaw Institute.
It was with ATN, the CEO ofINTA, and it was a chance to
talk about IP and it wasfantastic, so I was thrilled to
be invited here.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Was it as professional as this one.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
It had a different vibe, but it was on camera which
adds a certain other element.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, we don't do that, it's a shame because I was
thinking it's a shame thecamera's not here because it
can't pick up your amazingpresidential outfit, that you
have to wear the big hat.
It's gone to waste the robes.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
The scepter.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Thank you for having us in.
Oh sorry, oh, i-n-t-a, i-n-t-a.
Thank you for having us here.
Thank you for this amazingpodcasting booth, which is just
extraordinary, wonderful.
Thank you for having us here.
Thank you for this amazingpodcasting book, which is just
extraordinary, and thank you forguesting on the podcast.
So it's a conversation and it'syour conversation.
It's about you and the workthat you do, so do you want to
start off there by telling usgive us the potted career
history, whatever?
Speaker 4 (02:56):
you're happy to share .
First let me put you both atease.
You may hear me say into aswell.
So actually, please don't worry.
No, honestly, honestly.
INTA I will probably say butit's not a crime to say INTA.
So so yeah, actually I wasgoing to be an English professor
(03:16):
and I went to college inVirginia and I was an English
literature major and I was apsychology minor.
No thoughts of law, no legalmembers of my family, and then,
right before I graduated trulythe last second I took a
business law class secondsemester of senior year and I
loved it and it opened my eyesand I had no idea about that
career.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So just a little kind of segue that way.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
Just a tiny turn.
Tiny turn in the road, and Ibecame a paralegal for two years
because I thought it was alittle bit rash to just head off
to law school.
Having had, you know, twomonths of exposure to it, I
wanted to learn a little bitmore, so I worked for a law firm
in Richmond, virginia, instructured finance, which as you
imagine an English major is notparticularly well versed in
(03:59):
that, but that was superinteresting and that didn't put
you off, it didn't put me.
And in fact, a few lawyers triedto put me off and saying this
is a really stressful career,think about it.
So it was interesting to havethat perspective, but I did
decide to give it a shot and Iapplied to law school and I did
not take one intellectualproperty law class in law school
(04:19):
, which is probably notsomething that would happen
today.
I think today it's part of thecourt curriculum, but I was
going to be a litigator.
I was completely focused on mootcourt and arguments and that
sort of thing.
And I got to go to New York asa summer associate and graduated
and moved to New York City,Started as a litigator and loved
it.
They rotate you around.
(04:39):
So I did employment law,insurance law and then one of
the first cyber squatting casesin the world came through the
courts in New York City and ourclient was able to withstand it.
A lot of people settle.
They kind of get blackmailed inthe settling group but our
client refused to do that, andso we went to court and it was
fascinating.
From there I said I need to domore of this activity.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
That's exciting.
You're making law there as well.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
That's exciting.
You're making law there as well.
That's groundbreaking stuff.
It was technology.
No one really even understoodhow domain names work.
To be honest, that was quite alarge part of it, and, yes, so
from there I actually changedfirms to go to a firm that
helped me learn on the job, andone of my biggest clients was
Cadbury chocolate, and so fromthere Proper chocolate.
Proper chocolate.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Now owned by Hershey right.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
No, no, no, Cadbury is now owned.
Actually, they were acquired byKraft and then became Mondelez.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Right.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Yes, but I got to come to the UK a fair amount
when I worked for Cadbury.
Yeah, bourneville, bourneville.
There's a wonderful factory andhistory up there and it was
amazing.
So, yeah, that was thebeginning of the IP career, I
guess and tell us a little bitabout how INTI operates.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
So how long was your presidency and when did you
start it?
Speaker 4 (05:56):
perfect, so I began volunteering with INTI soon
after I joined Cadbury and youstart on committees.
I was on the famous and wellknown Mark committee soon after
I joined Cadbury and you starton committees.
I was on the famous andwell-known Mark Committee, which
made sense with Cadbury.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
And you start getting exposed to committee work and,
depending on your interests, youcan become more and more
involved, and I really loved it.
I loved the mission that INTAwas doing.
I loved the additional trainingI was getting to my private
practice, leadershipopportunities, exposure to
industries from around the world, and so I kept getting more
involved.
I served on a presidential taskforce on brands and innovation,
(06:29):
which was all very new at thetime.
You know, there was no socialmedia.
I mean, there was truly barelyyou know, barely people were
comfortable on the internet.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
What a strange world it was back then.
I know it's tremendous, Atleast I understood it.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I didn't get this one at all.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Yeah, and so from there, I eventually was asked to
serve on the board of directors, which is just a tremendous
opportunity to see amicus briefsthat are coming through and
have the chance to.
How big is the board?
The board is about 35 members.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
Global.
It's in-house external counselyeah, yes, in-house external
counsel, yes.
And then I was asked toco-chair the annual meeting that
would have been in Singapore in2020, but, of course, it went
virtual yes.
And so I had a bit of a breakin between the board of
directors and after that theyasked me to become an officer
and the officer track at thetime and that's some of the news
I wanted to share with you.
(07:17):
At the time it was a six-yearladder, so you start as
secretary and you learn atremendous amount about the
organization that way and thenyou become treasurer and you
learn about the finances and howimportant the annual meeting is
to INTA's operations.
And then you become a vicepresident, and so it's a
six-year ladder.
So yeah so when people ask howlong is the presidency, it
itself is a year, but it takesquite a bit to get to that year.
(07:41):
And it's nice because it's verycohesive.
That's quite a commitment whenyou're working.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
It is.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
it is, but it has tremendous benefits.
So I think the two kind ofdovetail really nicely.
I think it helped me excel inmy career because I had such
opportunities.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
You said there was some news there.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Yes.
So INTA, you will hear in thestrategic plan which is being
unveiled today at the openingceremonies.
We have a new strategic plan.
It's going from 2026 to 2029.
And as part of that strategicplan, one of the goals is to
help build the INTA of thefuture.
The world is changingtremendously.
How do we make sure that ourmembers and INTA itself keeps up
(08:18):
with this pace?
So the officer track used toonly be open to corporate
members, such as myself.
Six years, quite a commitment,as you've mentioned.
But we have now changed that sothat two of the positions are
actually now open to law firmassociate members, which has
many benefits, one of whichshortens the corporate ladder,
(08:38):
the officer ladder forcorporates.
So we think that will make it alittle bit easier to get people
to get the commitment fromtheir company and to but also
gets more diverse voices, getsmore diverse voices and we have
some tremendously talentedassociate members that it used
to be serving on the board orperhaps the one council spot.
Those were your opportunitiesfor leadership and now we have
(08:59):
this chance to say, hey, you canactually join the officer track
, which I think is superexciting.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
We've had a lot of positive feedback that's quite a
couple of interesting pointsthere.
One is cipa cipa, as we're nowcalling it.
Yeah, we're cipa cipa, we haveit's all voluntary.
Um, all the offices, majorityof the office is voluntary, and
so finding a president, Isuspect probably less onerous
than what you may have to do.
I'm guessing, even then, though, to finding a president, I
suspect, is probably lessonerous than what you may have
(09:23):
to do.
I'm guessing, even then, though, to find a president whose
business is comfortable withthat.
You know, giving them thatspace is a big ask, and we get
great support from everyone whodoes do it.
But yeah, it's tricky, isn't it?
And on that point, how onerousis your year?
Is it nonstop?
Do you get to do any day job?
How does it work?
How earnest is your year?
Is it non-stop?
Do you get?
Speaker 4 (09:41):
to do any day job.
How does it work?
It's actually quite cyclicaland because I've been able to
observe this, you know, whilebeing other positions.
I was prepared for it, and soaround.
Of course, the annual meeting.
I would say this is peak, peaktime commitment, which rightly
so.
But there are four boardmeetings a year and including
government affairs programs.
(10:02):
Four board meetings a year andincluding government affairs
programs.
And then on top of thatthrilling part of the presidency
is getting to do delegations toip offices around the world
sure so we kicked off january inottawa with the canadian ip
office, which was just such atremendous way to start, and
then in april we were inbrussels meeting with the eu
parliament and lots of othermembers of the government.
So so, around those events, thecommitment spikes.
(10:24):
But then, for example, I thinkI had half of March, half of
April all to myself.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I envision.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
June will be fairly non-INTA related.
I actually I was prepared forit, so I think it's manageable
and I'm lucky that my company isreally supportive and my
immediate manager is incrediblysupportive and I have the best
team ever who are here.
We're all trying to keep thework going while we're all at
IMTA, so it's truly a collectiveeffort.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I think a lot of the organizations do see that with
these organizations like IMTAand SEPA, because somebody's got
to do it but it is for thebenefit of the greater good.
So I think people want to takeit in turns to kind of delegate.
So it's good to hear whenbusinesses give you that space.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Yes, absolutely, because INTA is so involved in
policy and advocacy and thatserves the industry, serves my
company.
So it truly is a virtuous cyclewhich I think helps show the
value of the role.
And, not to mention, it's suchan amazing community, the people
here.
You meet them 20 years ago.
They become lifelong friendsfrom around the world.
(11:28):
We truly know people in almostevery country.
It's special.
It really is special.
So I get a tremendous amount ofenergy from it and I leave from
these meetings just reallymotivated and so impressed by
our community.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Can I ask a question about the presidency?
So at SIPA we have a so it's athree-year gig, so not six years
.
So you're coming as the vicepresident, you'll serve a year
as president, and then you'llserve a year as the immediate
past president, and then you'refree and to a large extent the
agenda is set for the president,because there are always things
that SIPA is working on in theIP space.
That's perfectly on our radar.
(12:01):
But equally, we ask ourpresident to also bring with her
or him some kind of theme orpersonal ambitions.
Do you get the chance to shakethe presidency in that way?
Do you bring stuff into INTAthat otherwise wouldn't be there
?
Speaker 4 (12:15):
It's a super question .
One of the most excitingopportunities of being president
is you have a presidential taskforce and you get to set that
agenda, that theme, of course,making sure it aligns with
priorities of INTA.
But that is the chance I had tolook at INTA and what it has
done for me and where we want itto be in the future, and it's
(12:37):
amazing how it corresponds withthe strategic plan and wanting
to ensure INTA itself isevolving.
I want to ensure that ourmembers are thriving in this
incredibly dynamic, complexenvironment, and so what my task
force is looking at issupporting members as their
practice changes around them, astechnologies are changing
around them.
There's hardly anyone who doesjust trademark law anymore.
(12:59):
It's now become incrediblybroad and, depending on your
company, you may be doingpatents and treatments,
copyrights, design, datacompliance.
So I got to say I would like tofind ways for INTA to support
its members as this happensReally innovative, hopefully
actionable ways to take back totheir practice and say this is
how I can help us, this is howI'm adding value.
So that was really important tome and, uh, I guess if I have a
(13:23):
north star, there's probably two.
Two parts to it is service.
I want to serve our members.
We're here to serve the members, so I'm listening to everyone
as we walk around.
What do you need?
What can we do more of?
Yeah, and show our appreciationfor them, but given today's
world budgetary pressures,getting the money to attend
these events, you want to makesure IT is adding value.
So that's what I'm trying to dothrough my presidential task
(13:44):
force.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Service and value.
That's a great message.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Yeah, and it feels good.
And as I speak with members, itseems to resonate with them
that we're all feeling pressureto do more with less.
And how can you support yourrole given AI?
How do you show that you'rebetter than AI?
You know all of these things.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I was going to ask about that because you said your
task force is going to look atsome of the changes and things
that are happening and, ofcourse, that ties in with your
26 to 29 strategic plan, whichis about a changing environment.
What are the threats, then, thethreats or challenges that
you're seeing?
I think you mentioned AI, forexample.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Yes, AI, emerging technologies, I think, budgetary
pressures, also complexgeopolitics, you know, trying to
navigate both kind of globalism.
And then now we're seeingnationalism.
And how do we as global membersnavigate that world?
And I think we are expected tokind of go beyond the average
(14:38):
run of the day, run of the milltask.
We're asked to add strategicvalue, and so I think our
members, now it's not enough tocome and give good legal advice.
You need to be aware of theentire landscape that you're
operating in, the competitivepressures.
What are your businesspriorities and how are you going
to help your business achievethat?
So I think you have to come inmuch more strategically thinking
(15:01):
than perhaps we were even twodecades ago.
We came out with a veryspecific purpose Trademark law.
We're going to be the besttrademark lawyers we can be.
But now, unfortunately, I don'tthink that's enough To be
considered a successful in-housemember.
You're going to have to bring alot more to the table.
So that's a lot of pressure onpeople.
(15:22):
And you know when you're readingthe headlines about the, the
job cuts and you know thecutting back everywhere, so that
that just we're operating underpressure.
So I I think inta is reallyuniquely positioned to help
support our members through thatand to be that resource that
you know.
Once you have the membershipfee, you have access to an
incredible amount of trainingand webinars and materials that
you don't have to pay for.
So that's really nice.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
So one of the things that we always find quite
fascinating or I find quitefascinating.
So as a Chief Executive of CIPA, obviously I see the
relationship between my membersas volunteers, whether that be
on a committee or so.
We don't have a board.
We have a council.
Mine meets 12 times a year, sofour times a year would be
lovely I never do, but there wego.
But so four times a year wouldbe lovely.
I never do, but there we go,but also my staff, and I'm
(16:04):
imagining there's the samedynamic at INTA, so that could
be quite vibrant kind of thatrelationship.
Have you found that in yourtime as an officer?
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Yes, I am so impressed with the staff of INTA
and I imagine you've just, if Imay say, finished speaking with
Heather Steinmeier who wasincredibly impressive our chief
policy officer and our CEO, I'msure seeing him in action.
You'll see him in the openingceremony.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Etienne was on the podcast last year Fantastic.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
And you know this is not my day job, so I have people
helping me get through andunderstand.
And when we go to Brussels, youknow I'm there to represent the
brand perspective and to saythese are how we're seeing
counterfeits.
They're there talking about thenuances of policy and impact.
You know the counterfeitinglegislation and you know the
patent packages and they go intoexquisite detail about a
(16:53):
diverse range of issues.
The ITA staff is some of themost prepared members of any
organization that I feel sofortunate to work with them and
I don't think I could do thisjob without them.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I was going to say that's quite a scary environment
, isn't it, when you'reparachuted into meetings with
policymakers.
It's not my day job at all.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
Yeah, exactly, and you know I'm not used to it.
This role is almost likerunning a company, because
you're not just talking about IP, you're talking about you know.
How does the latest you know USadministration comments about
DEI?
How does that affect ourstrategic plan?
How does that affect ourmembers?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Can we talk a little bit about that?
Sure, is that okay?
Sure, happy to.
I opened the door to it, being,as we are here in the States,
we were quite scared to trampleour large feet but mine aren't
that big.
But, elizabeth, you've openedthe door, so let's go.
How does it feel to be workingat the moment in a political
(17:50):
kind of ideology or regime wherethe AI is being challenged in
this way?
Speaker 4 (17:53):
So you know, I think we are.
It's very typical in the US.
You switch administrationsoften every four years, so we
are accustomed to seeing swings.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, yeah, of course , typical in the.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
US, you switch administrations often every four
years, so we are accustomed toseeing swings, and so we have
noted that you're not going tohave the same approach to DEI
forever, and so I think, giventhe progress that was made a few
years ago, at some point youmight reach a tipping point
where it then has to startcoming back, and so I do think
what we're trying to do now isto ensure that we're supporting
our members, making them feelvalued and included.
(18:25):
This is such a diverseassociation.
We can do that in ways that arenot considered perhaps going
too far, so I think we'restriking the right balance.
Well, it's not even that.
We want to do things that havevalue for our members.
We don't want to do things justto do them right and so.
I think coming here, one of thebest things about INTA is every
(18:45):
voice is welcome.
Truly, you can bring anyviewpoint you have and you will
feel welcome here, and so Ithink we're still able to do
that, despite the changes thatwe have recently seen.
That's good.
Yeah and we feel good about thatand in fact, we still continue
that aspect, as a huge part ofour strategic plan is ensuring
that all members feel welcomeand being a good citizen in the
world.
(19:05):
You know how can we supportsmall SMEs and do pro bono work
and make sure that everyonefeels empowered.
So I feel comfortable actuallythat we found a path forward
that still respects the lawthat's now in the United States.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Ip has legislative boundaries.
I always struggle with that.
That is a beautiful thing,Legislative boundaries but it
doesn't have social boundaries,does it?
It is a global event in thatsense.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Yeah, that's very true, and often parts of IP are
not particularly controversial.
We are here IP supportsinnovation, ip supports
businesses, ip supports theeconomy.
Those are all positive thingsthat almost anybody can agree on
.
So there is a large amount ofthis space that doesn't have to
be political and it's really forthe good of the world, and so I
(19:51):
think INTA is able to kind offocus on where we can have a
positive impact.
Some of the other things letthat be out on the edges.
Let's focus on where we can makea positive difference, and I
actually feel really good aboutthat.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I might be inferring it.
I noticed walking around here,looking at some of the paperwork
and the banners and things, theletter CSR starting to reappear
.
I feel like I hadn't seen thatfor a few years, but that, in
the end, is perfectly acceptable.
I think corporate socialresponsibility was always a
really good way of putting itactually.
Um, so it's good, good to seethat yeah, absolutely I was
gonna ask actually.
So, as you said, this is one ofthe kind of pinnacle moments in
(20:26):
your, in your presidency.
How many times you're on stage,how much talking are you doing?
Are you just on show non-stopnow, or what?
Speaker 4 (20:33):
uh, so so the meeting officially kicked off.
Friday morning we had awonderful signing of a
memorandum of understanding withthe danish patent and Trademark
Office, so that was a great way, and that's.
You have some informalconversations, but you still
need to be prepared.
You know there's remarks forthat.
Then you know, I was just onstage right before I met with
you.
We have the in-housepractitioners committee, so I
was fortunate to be asked togive the welcoming remarks being
(20:55):
in-house.
You know that was reallyexciting to look out into the
audience of a few hundred ofyour closest friends.
I gave opening remarks at oneof the annual meeting receptions
when we were in Brussels, andthis is where I'd like to give a
little shout out to the ITAstaff.
They do help me.
You know.
These are remarks that youcould start with and then I can
make them my own.
So you know, that's actuallyreally helpful.
(21:16):
But the big event is thisafternoon, the opening
ceremonies at 4.30, where theco-chairs will go on first and
give a preview of the amazingweek ahead.
Then I'll go on and give myremarks, which you have actually
heard some of the themes righthere.
If you're able to attend, Ihope you can join us because, I
think it's very inspiring thosefirst few ceremonies.
I don't know.
The podcast will go out longafter you've done your welcoming
(21:38):
speech, so we're breaking nowalls here.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Great.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
And then I think I have at least three more opening
remarks that I'm giving.
I'm doing two more interviewsafter this throughout the week.
But honestly, you get into sortof this zone and it's really
exciting.
You want to communicate thethings that you're enthusiastic
about.
So I don't find it a chore.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
I find you know you come across as really
enthusiastic.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
I think people you know, when you see anybody in
the position of leadership, youkind of think, oh, they were
born to this and they know,they've always done this since
they were three no, because ofcourse you know you're going to.
So it sounds like you you'renot going to kind of go and curl
up, curl up in the ball at theend of the day.
No, no, I'd be doing.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Well, I guess you know I was the English major.
I love words, I love language.
You know, I find this justreally fun and enjoyable.
And I wouldn't say, you know,I've been doing this now 25
years.
When I was 23, I probably wouldhave been able to come in here
and talk to you.
I would have been a little morenervous, but a few years later
you get a little more practice,yeah so we're coming towards
(22:47):
time.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Can we close on?
I've got a really good questionI really want to ask a question
.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
You do that first thing.
Yes, okay, you should havekicked me under the table.
You know both our legs are tooshort anyway.
Well, that's giving a bit awaynow, anyway.
Um, that's why don't do a video, because it's how short my legs
are.
English literature let's talkabout that for a minute.
We know what we're doing.
My son actually did a degree inEnglish literature as well, and
I got to A levels.
I did that kind of thing and Iloved it.
(23:11):
Do you keep in touch with it?
Do you still love reading?
Do you?
Can you still read, becausesometimes people hate either.
You've got no time.
Are you still enjoying the restof the world?
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Actually, this is a super question because I did
find that for a while I had tomove away from novels and long
books and I was reading the NewYorker, for example, like
shorter bites of things that youcould process, because during
COVID things just got a bitoverwhelming.
But then I did consciously makea move back to reading.
I just finished Pillars of theEarth, which is Ken Follett,
which is all about building thecathedrals in the UK.
(23:42):
I think it was in the 1200s.
That was fascinating.
I'm reading Pachinko right now,which is a four-generation
story about Korean-Japanesefamilies, so I do love to read
and I think it's reallyimportant, even though we're
very tired.
It just opens up a wholedifferent world.
That's very creative and Ithink you know copyright is a
big, important part of ourpractices, and so I feel like
(24:04):
it's a great way to still kindof pay homage to you know, the
IP field.
But yeah, enjoy yourself too.
So I do still love reading.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
And who were you when you were doing your actual
degree?
Yeah, where were your focuses?
Speaker 4 (24:15):
So I had both American and English literature
focus.
So Wordsworth, Byron, thosewere some of my favorites.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
And then I took.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
I really loved Faulkner, Fitzgerald and
Hemingway.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Those were probably some of my wordsworth versus
Hemingway and Byron in therediverse range, though really
diverse, and that's the bestthing you know about an English
degree is it's truly diverse.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
I don't know.
Maybe, maybe I should havepursued an English literature
professor path, but I'm prettyhappy with the way things ended
up so I wanted to ask about thepatent track, if that's okay,
because obviously, gwilym and Iare here from the Chartered
Digital.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Patent Attorneys but we always stress that our
members do patents, trade works,designs, copyright, trade
secrets a lot, but we're quiteexcited about patents making a
formal sort of appearance atINTA.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Tell us a bit about that yes, and that also ties
back to the strategic plan whereover the years, we've moved the
plan.
Two cycles ago referred totrademarks, the current plan
refers to brands and now the newplan refers to intellectual
property, and that's verydeliberate.
We're looking at IP in aholistic view, but it also opens
the door to figure out how INTAcan help its members with
(25:24):
respect to patents, and there'smany different reasons for that.
For example, at my company, I'msitting around a table with
almost all other patentprofessionals and I need to be
versed and informed in at leastthe fundamentals of patents.
So I'm super excited that INTAis offering this to their
members.
We're starting with educationand information and helping arm
our brand professionals tounderstand a bit of the basics
(25:45):
of patents and then from therewe'll see where does inta go
with patents.
We're not ready yet to issuepolicy statements to be
advocating on the patent packagein brussels, you know, but, but
that is something that we knowis of great interest to our
companies, and so I agree, Ithink getting a little more
formal about it is exciting.
Are you able to attend any ofthe programming?
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I'm hoping to try and get on to some of it, but some
of it clashes with podcasting.
That's what we're here to do.
I mean, I would say, when youfeel you're ready to start
thinking about the policy stuff,reach out to us.
Fantastic, because we're alwayslooking for any organisation
that can amplify what we'resaying.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
We also like to feed into what you guys are doing
great.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
That sounds like a great opportunity.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I was quite excited.
Actually, my eyes have just litup.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
You mentioned that you continue as immediate past
president, so I will do the same.
So next year I'm immediate pastpresident and then I serve on
the board for two more years, soI'll be around.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
There's a nice kind of continuous cycle between this
and maybe I'll have a job.
I'm permanently around.
I can't get rid of him Can'tget rid of him.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Can't get rid of him, can't get rid of him, Can't get
rid of him.
So, Elizabeth, we're comingnear the end and our final
question is always the same, andthat's are you sitting there
thinking, phew, they didn't askme that, so is there any
question?
You dreaded being asked.
That hasn.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
Not dreading, actually, because having
listened to your podcast, I feltlike even if you asked me a
really hard question, you wouldat least be understanding as I
fumbled through it.
No, I guess I would say Ireally appreciate the
opportunity to get to speak toyou in this setting.
I think I personally do alittle better in these settings
versus, you know, a reallyformal interview.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
So it allows us to have a more real conversation.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
No, I guess I would love to encourage you to embrace
this week.
It's an amazing week.
It is truly the biggest IPevent of the year.
The energy here I'm not sureyou'll find elsewhere.
And I hope you also leavefeeling super excited.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Oh, I know we will.
Yeah, we did.
We got energized at Atlantalast year, which is why we're
back.
Good time out of an amazinglybusy schedule to share your
thoughts on the podcast it wasreally my pleasure thank you so
(28:18):
much.
Outro Music Thank you.
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