The United States of Warlords with Murray Sabrin

Today, The Two Mikes welcomed back and spoke with the renowned economist and Libertarian, Murray Sabrin. 

He also is closely connected to the splendid Mises Institute, whose “Annual Summit” will be held in Hilton Head, North Carolina, on 10-12 October 2024. 

Not surprisingly, Professor Sabrin said the U.S. government is behaving and spending as if there is no one at the wheel. He said in less than a single term the Biden administration has added $11 billion to the national debt, and shows no sign of slowing that pace during the last month of its term. 

While it is true that the November, 2024, election is yet another case of Republicans-vs-Democrats, Mr. Sabrin argued that underlying that situation is a much more important contest, one that pits liberty against the horrors of tyrannical statist authoritarianism. 

On this score, we discussed Climate Tsar John Kerry’s recent call for an end to the First Amendment, because free speech is making it “too hard to govern.” In reality, what Kerry came close to saying is that the “truth” so easily available in the alternative and social media makes it harder for governments to oppress their populations so as to pave the way for something worse than a 1984 tyranny.

We also briefly discussed the use of “Executive Orders” by the President (any president) and the Congressional delegation of its sole responsibility for declaring war to the president through the bills like “Authorization of the Use of Military Force”. The latter makes the president an uncontrollable warlord rather than the republic’s chief magistrate. 

There clearly is nothing in the Constitution that authorizes either executive orders or a delegation by the Congress of its war powers to the president. 

The last point, of course, means that none of the wars America has fought since 1945 – big or small – have been constitutional. They all have been products of the will of a Warlord, and not that of the legitimate constitutional process. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, Colonel Mike here, thank you for listening and again,
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Appreciate it by bye.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Fourth three two one, Hey, welcome back to two Mike's
Doctor Michael Schurer, New York Times bestselling author and Colonel
Mike who never wrote a book, and don't forget to
go to our website ew Mike's two Mike's dot Us.
By the way, we have the numbers where we came
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(01:39):
Thank you to everybody all around the world. Are eighty
percent in America and the twenty percent everywhere else in
the world.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
Thank you for voting for us. We got one point
imagine that and we did.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
I think the medium, we're somewhere in fifty sixty percent
somewhere the other second number, but top one point five boy,
that's pretty strong, all right, So listen without further ado,
don't forget go to our website. Also, we have three
new blogs up, and we need you to just click
on the website because there's something going on with our production.
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(02:09):
think it's Network Radio or Apple on the you know,
to get the podcast as jammed, please click on them.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
We're working on that. Thank you. We want to welcome
back Hold on a second, excuse me.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
We want to welcome back to Murray Sabran, who's with
the Misis Institute and he's an old friend of Mike's
and a good friend of Ron Paul, and we want
to welcome him back. They got a couple of events
coming up and we want to speak with Murray about
the economic situation, the election, and his events coming up.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Welcome back, Murray Sabran.

Speaker 4 (02:38):
Right away with you, Colonel Mike and Michael is great
to be with you again.

Speaker 5 (02:43):
My pleasure, sir always.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Just so everybody knows, this is three New Yorkers on
this one on this podcast, two from the city of
one up state, so it's going to be a good one.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
So Murray, how would you like to open up the
podcast today?

Speaker 4 (02:56):
Well, we're just at the cusp of another election, which
means that a lot of untruthed miss are coming fast
and furious from both sides of the aisle. I mean,
this is the worst the presidential election I can remember,
because it seems that most people are voting against the
candidate as opposed to for a candidate, except maybe the
Democrats who think that Kamala Harris walks on water when

(03:19):
she never won a primary in twenty twenty or twenty
twenty four. I mean, this is stunning. What's happening. This
has never happened in our lifetime where presidential candidate has
been slipped in after the presumptive nominee dropped out of
the race. And I got to tell you something. You
know why we have Kamala Harris as the presidential the

(03:39):
Democratic presidential nominee is not because of because of Donald Trump.
Donald Trump made a strategic error by debating Biden in
June before both of them got their respective party's nomination.
If Trump had just said, hey, our conventions are coming up,
let's wait till we both get the nominations, then will
debate in September. Instead, everyone in the world saw what

(04:04):
Joe Biden was really a frail, confused individual, and the
insiders said, we can't have Biden not only lose the
presidency but drag down the whole Democratic ticket. And Trump
is responsible for it. He has to take responsibility for
doing something that I think was so really dumb. There's

(04:25):
no other way to describe it. I mean, he should
have had Biden as the weak candidate, and he would
have won in a landslide. In fact, he should be
winning in a landslide now. He should be ahead five
ten percent in the polls, given Kamala Harris's word salads,
given her flip flop on every issue under the sun,
and I think she's exposed for what she is really

(04:47):
an empty suit. I mean, she wears suits, but there's
nothing there.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Did you notice that, Murray, did you notice that she
never dresses like you know, everything is a pants suit.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
With these people, and especially her. You know.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
What I notice also is that how bad this campaign
is being run. Like you said, nobody was thinking about
just leaving Joe there, you know, and it's just they
should be wiping the floor with her.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
They're not doing it.

Speaker 4 (05:13):
I think Trump has a problem of messaging. He's talking
about twenty twenty. No one wants to hear by twenty twenty.
They want to hear about the next five years, ten years.
And his tariff plan is one of the worst I've
ever seen from a presidential candidate. And we know tariffs
were the cause, well one of the causes, if not
the primary cause, of the misnamed Civil War, because people

(05:35):
have written about it, like Tom de Lorenzo and Mark
Thornton and other Austrian School economists that the economic exploitation
of the North by the North of the South led
to the South saying we want to succeed. In addition,
the tariffs during the nineteen thirties was one of the
primary causes of World War two. Secretary of State Cordell
Hall under FDR and his memoirs wrote that the tariffs

(05:58):
and the trade wars were responsible for the political tensions
leading up to World War Two. So again, his history
is on the side of getting rid of tariff's as
much as possible, and if you're going to have a tariff,
it should be a minimal amount. And yet Trump is
going all in because he makes the egregious assumption that

(06:19):
workers own their jobs. Workers don't own their jobs, and
it's not up to the government to protect quote jobs
of American workers up. It's the free market will sort
this all out. And Trumps, even though he's a quote
a businessman, he doesn't believe in free markets, he doesn't
believe in the free enterprise system. He believes in cronyism.
And that's one of my biggest complaints about Trump.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
Marie, let me ask you a question. Who is his
economic advisor right now in this campaign?

Speaker 4 (06:46):
Well, I think Stephen Moore is there, and some other
people that were with him, Larry Cudler may be speaking
to him from Fox News. He's very bright people, supposedly
strong free enterprise, free market, non interventionous people. And yet
for Trump to go out there and sound like William
Jennings Bryan or FDR or George McGovern is just pitiful.

(07:09):
I mean, he's transforming the Republican Party into a protectionist,
big government party.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Wow, this is a great Mike. Do you are you
listening to this?

Speaker 5 (07:18):
Mike, Well, he's just returning to us. You're turning the
party to where it always has been.

Speaker 4 (07:23):
Absolutely. I mean, Lincoln was a high tariff guy. The
morale Tarifa that was in place in eighteen sixty one
was the final straw for the South and they said
we're out of here because we didn't join the Union
to be exploited by the North. So again everything comes
around and the Republican Party, as Michael points out, is

(07:44):
going back to its roots of a high tariff party,
which is one of the great issues of the nineteenth century.
You had the Democrats with the free trade party the Whigs,
and the Republicans were the pro protectionist party. So this
is an old age issue in the United States. And
I wish the Trump's advisors with whisper in his ear

(08:04):
talk about free enterprise as the engine of prosperity, as
the engine of high paying jobs, doesn't have to get
into specifics, but just talk, but just have a message
that is the free enterprise system that built America, not
not protectionism.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Oh my god, you know, Marie, this is such a
fabulous podcast. I'm so happy you came back on, and
I want to discuss also your your efens as you're doing.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
I would like to invite you.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
We have another show, Michael and I in National Security Hour,
and I'm doing another show called Unleashed on the Political
It's a political news hour.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
Unleashed.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
I'd like to invite That's another network we're on, and
I'd like to invite you on there too, and get
this out there, both of these as fast as we can,
because I just I see the people around him, his
campaign advisors.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
This is like, you know, defeat.

Speaker 6 (08:52):
What is it called, Mike, what does you say, Jews
of victory get defeat from the Jews of victory. It's
it's he's just fallen all over himself. And you're right,
who made the move? They should have let Joe go
all the way.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
You know.

Speaker 4 (09:04):
It's just I was stunned. I was stunned when Trump
accepted the debate. I was said, why is he doing this?

Speaker 7 (09:11):
And he's doing it again, Murray, He's going to go
on CBS fake news, fake Why are you going on
fake news?

Speaker 2 (09:17):
You got so many podcasts, you got all the networks.
Why are you doing this?

Speaker 4 (09:21):
I think Trump is his ego is getting in the way.
I think he wants to show her when he's the
smartest guy in the room, which he's not. I mean,
here's someone who has a business interest all over the
world and he's calling for protectionism. I mean, it's just
mind boggling that he should look in the mirror and say,
why do I have golf courses all over the world,
business interests all over the world, But I don't want

(09:43):
the American people to enjoy the benefits of low prices
of overseas goods and the way. And here's the thing
that if Trump were really a free market, pro free
enterprise individual, he would call not only for a fifteen
percent corporate tax rate, he would call for his zero
percent tax right and say, the United States is going
to be the magnific capital around the world. Come to America,

(10:06):
enjoy what we have, a great labor force, freedom, free enterprise,
and your taxes will be zero and you will have
to be able to invest and reinvest and pay workers
good salaries in order to produce the goods and services
that you want to do, not only for Americans, but
for all over the world.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Marie, I have a question about China. A lot of
Trumps people are like, we got to bring the jobs back.
How do you bring the jobs back when people who
used to pay in this for a phone or that
for a garden hose and dollar store, dollar general and
there's a lot of people in this country that can't
do beyond the dollar hos.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Let's say, garden host, how do you bring these jobs
back and expect to do it well.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
One of the greatest impediments to jobs in America is
all the regulations that have been put in place for
the last thirty forty years. And if you reduce remember
regulation is basically a tax on doing business, So you
get rid of unnecessary regulation, which is most of them.
And the Competitive Enterprise Institute has done great work in
this area showing how counterproductive all these regulations are. Cut

(11:11):
taxes and get rid of all these special carvas for
businesses and let the free market work. The free market,
as I've been pointing out for decades, is the best
engine for growth and high paying jobs. And if Trump
would come out of the message saying the way to
quote protect jobs, and of course the government is not

(11:31):
should not be in the business of protecting jobs. Is
we want to attract capital. We want to attract capital
to America in order to make businesses more productive. And
when business is more productive, they can pay higher wages.
It's as simple as that. There's no magic formula here,
there's no magic bullet except enjoining the benefits of economic freedom.
And Trump is all over the place with this. I mean,

(11:54):
he has this animus to a China and other foreign producers.
And the reason companies went over US companies when overseas
is because they were able to have lower regulations, load taxes,
and send those goods back to the United States at
lower prices. So again, if we want to have a vibrant,
dynamic US economy, get rid of most of these regulations

(12:16):
and cut taxes. And here's the other point, cut government spending,
because we are on a fiscal death spiral, because the
debt is at thirty five trillion, going up to fifty
trillion in a few years, and the interest is going
to crowd out all the spending in Washington, and it's
going to create more poverty because so many people are

(12:38):
depend upon government spending for their necessities of life.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
We had a guy on that said, we're somewhere like
one hundred and twenty trillion in debt if you put
it all together.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Murray, is that true?

Speaker 4 (12:50):
Well, yeah, if you look at the unfunded liabilities of
Social Security and Medicare, the trust funds are going to
be empty by the early twenty thirties. And people have
been warning about this for decades. But the first Jimmy
Carter and then Reagan bailed out Social Security with higher
taxes in the late seventies and early eighties. And now
the chickens are coming home to roost as the baby

(13:11):
boomers are aging and living longer. They're drawing down the
trust fund and we need more workers in the country
to pay into it. But as I've written over the years,
we can phase out Social Security over the next ten
twenty years, if not sooner. Think about it. Warren Buffett
and Michael Bloomberg and all these multi billionaires are drawing

(13:32):
Social Security checks. Who's paying for them? Low income workers?
I mean that money that they paid in is long gone,
and they're getting paid by people who are making fifteen
twenty dollars an hour, so they can get up Social Security.
Bill Clinton is worth a hundred million dollars, he can
get off Social Security. And so I would propose anyone
with a high network should get up of Social Security

(13:53):
and do something for America, for the American people. If
you're really a patriot, do something that will help low
and middle income families improve their living standards.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
I also believe people like Clinton and Bush and the others,
the retired presidents, they can pay for their own planes,
they can pay for their own security.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
I mean, we waste a lot of money on these people.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
We give them four hundred thousand dollars of retirement checks.
It's bs, you know, it's totally These people they don't care,
you know, they just drift.

Speaker 4 (14:24):
The big expenditures, as we all know, is the welfare
warfare state, which is sucking up seven trillion dollars a
year in expenditures. And what we need to do is
really downsize the federal government. And we have the blueprint.
It's called Article one, section eight of the US Constitution,
which outlines the authorized spending of the federal government. And

(14:45):
as Judge of Polatano and others have pointed, out most
government spending is not authorized. So we are in a
perpetual and constitutional crisis because no one in Washington takes
their oath seriously to uphold the Constitution. I became a
US citizen and I fifty nine raised my right hand
in the courthouse in Lower Monattan to defend the Constitution.
And when I ran for you, I said it in

(15:06):
New Jersey many years ago. I said, listen, we've got
this problem unauthorized spending. Let's begin the process of getting
the Constitution back into the federal budget. And if we
did that, the problem would go away.

Speaker 5 (15:20):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Great conversation, Go ahead, Mike.

Speaker 5 (15:23):
You know, I agree with both of you and most
of the things you've said strongly. But I think that
the key issue here is that no one knows what
the future is going to bring at this time. And Trump,

(15:44):
whatever Trump talks about, he's got a world of trouble
inside this country. And if he talked about that all
the time, it'd be more charges of racism, discrimination on
a phobia. And he's facing armed people from China inside

(16:07):
our country. He's facing what did they say yesterday, nearly
a million criminals that were dumped out of the jails
and South America and Latin and Central America, and you know,
you have to keep reminding people that they're here, but
you can't really say what you have to do. What
I wish he would shut up about is, obviously, if

(16:30):
he gets elected, a lot of people have to go
to prison or get hung and just be quiet about that.
The law can take care of itself once there's a
president who's interested in obeying the laws. So you know,
there's a lot of things he says that aggravate me
to the kind of to the tenth to the tenth marker.

(16:53):
But I cut him a little slack just because we've
never faced this kind of a problem before in terms
of threat, and uh, there's you know, there may be
enough patriots to elect him, but he needs I do
think he needs help from other constituencies, other ethnic groups

(17:15):
to rip some of those people off of the of
the off the Democratic plantation and and get elected. That's
kind of the first job to me. And so I
don't I don't disagree, and I don't refute anything you've said,
but I do cut them a little slack because of
the nature of the situation. This election is being held.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
In Yeah, yeah, but that's that's a national security issue. Mike,
I think we're talking in the economic terms.

Speaker 5 (17:41):
Well, yeah, we're talking.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
About what he should do.

Speaker 5 (17:43):
Yeah, both of you have have expressed an idea that
your ideas about the economy, which are correct, should be
at the forefront. Well, people want to hear that their
jobs are going to be secure, whether they or not.
They want to hear that we're not. We're not going
to accept the mammoth introduction of cars from Mexico that

(18:07):
are being built by Chinese plants. There's never been a
more important time in this country to get a president
who at least is concerned with the survival of the
United States.

Speaker 4 (18:23):
Oh, there's no question about it. The thing is, he's
not talking about neither of the Democrats at both conventions.
I'm waiting for somebody to criticize the Federal Reserve for
creating trillions of dollars which flow through the economy, giving
us the highest inflation rate in forty years. And Trump
thinks that we shoul have even lower interest rates, which

(18:43):
would exacerbate the problem. That's what got us into the
mess in the first place. The Fed keeping indust rates
close to zero for many, many years, and If Trump
doesn't know this, he's not worthy of being president. And
same thing with Kamala Harris. So we don't have a
good choice here in this election because the real problem
is the Federal reserve. When you print money, as the
Austrian Struld economists have pointed out, and you can read

(19:05):
this in Murray Rothbods, what has government done to our
money that the Mesias Institute is giving away for free?

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Everyone should go to I got it. I got the book.
It's very good. Thank you.

Speaker 4 (19:15):
I mean everyone should go read mess go to Mesis
dot org and get what has government done to our money?
And it outlines the problem of central banking, and central
banking is really central planning, because they tell they tried,
they try to give us an interest rate that they
think is optimal for the economy. They can't do that.
It didn't work in the Soviet Union, it didn't work

(19:37):
in Cuba or North Korea. Central planning doesn't work, So therefore,
don't give us central banking, which is another form of
central planning. So by Trump bashing the Federal Reserve for
not being inflationary enough shows that he either doesn't know
the problem or he's part of the problem. And from
my perspective, because both parties are not bashing the Federal

(19:58):
Reserve for causing the the mayhem in the economy, that
means Wall Street and the bankers are controlling both political
parties and no one wants to talk about this. And
so I've been talking about this on my substack Colin
murraysabran dot substack dot com, and I send out these
videos showing that the Federal Reserve is the problem and

(20:22):
the fact that both parties are really ignoring it tells
me that Wall Street is in charge of both political parties,
and of course the bankers. Warren Buffett loves the FED.
All the mega people love the FED because it inflates
asset values. And who owns most of the assets in
the United States, wealthy people. And so this is the

(20:44):
problem we have. We have a crony capitalism because of
the Federal Reserve. And this has been known for decades
and people have been writing about it for decades, and
yet the politicians are basically in the back pocket of
the super elites in in the country.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
I couldn't agree with you more, Murray.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
Let me ask you a question, how much damage did
quantitative vising due to this country under Obama. Remember when
when Obama was president, it was always quantitative easing.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
We're going to be coming down soft landing. What did
that mean? What did that do to this country?

Speaker 4 (21:15):
It distorted the housing market. It helped send businesses overseas,
because if your costs are going up in America, what
do businesses do? They want to go to low cost locations.
And that was overseas, whether it's Vietnam or Indonesia, or
India or Pakistan or you name it, South America. I mean,
I look at my clothes closet and most of the

(21:36):
clothes I made overseas, which is I mean, they're with
quality stuff. But the point is the businesses have a choice.
Do I produce in America with high way relidly high
wages to the rest of the world higher costs and
try to pass on that cost to consumers. Well, if
you do, if you try to do that, we know
consumers don't have unlimited resources, and so they're going to

(21:59):
balk at these higher prices. So they go overseas and
try to produce it at lower prices to have decent
profit margins, so they can sell the prices in the
United States at levels that people can afford. So once
you do quantitative easing, it sets into motion the inflation cycle,
the boom bus cycle, which I outlined in my book,
Navigating the boom Bus Cycle. And we're seeing now the

(22:22):
call for rent control. Now. Kamala Harra says it's price gouging,
that's the problem. Anyone who says price gouging is the
problem is an economic ignoramus, because it's the FED that's
causing prices to go up, not the greed of corporations.
Why a corporation's greedy now and they weren't greedy in
the nineteen in the two thousands, when prices we're running

(22:43):
at one percent a year or two percent a year,
I know that.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
Was that was my mother's fake. Oh bless hers, that
was a favorite wording. Damis.

Speaker 4 (22:52):
I mean, it's just stunning how ignorant these people are.
And it reminds me of my high school physics teachers
to tell the occasionally it's better to appear dumped and
open your mouth and remove all doubt. And this is
what we're seeing in both political parties on taxes, on spending,
on regulation, on tariffs and trade. And this is frustrating

(23:14):
for me because I've been I've been at this for
a long long time, and as time goes on, we
get dumber and dumber, people getting on CNBC and Fox
News and talking about how the government's going to solve
the problem. The government's not going to solve the problem's
going to make things. The only thing government can do
is get out of the way of the men and
women entrepreneurs of America who have been doing yeoman work

(23:35):
in spite of all the taxes and regulation they have
to face.

Speaker 5 (23:38):
Yes, I do agree with that, and what again, we
have to stop being a war nation. Oh yeah, we
have a president who's no longer a president no matter
who's in power, he's a war lord. And you want

(23:59):
to talk about raping the constitution. The idea that an
American president and his advisors can take us to wars
that cost two hundred million dollars for reasons that are
not even plausible is ridiculous, And in my mind, that's

(24:21):
a vote. That's my vote. The Democrats and the Republicans
in the Congress will constantly get us into more wars.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Strongly.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
We had tr and then we had FDR, and now
we have cr right Continuing Resolution.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
That's the president just kick the can down the road.

Speaker 5 (24:42):
Well, that's that's exactly right. But the pressure on the
president from everybody in the Congress that's on the take
from someone to go to war and do things, and
the lack of pride in America by people who want
to revel in the title of leader of the free world,

(25:03):
which there's not much left of, is criminally taking us
into wars that are a powerful engine of bankruptcy and
besides being death to enormous numbers of people.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
So let's ask Mariy this question, Mike, isn't that what
Reagan did to the communist nation of the USSR. Wasn't
that the whole purpose of Reagan trying to bankrupt them,
just spending money into the starting Well, the thing.

Speaker 4 (25:31):
About the Soviet Union is, remember they invaded Afghanistan in
nineteen seventy nine, and they were mired in Afghanistan and
they were printing money, so they caused massive inflation in
the Soviet Union. The young boys were coming home in
body bags and the whole system was imploding before our eyes.
And they were Russia. Soviet Union was a very weak

(25:55):
country economically in the nineteen eighties. They still are relevantly speaking.
And so that's so it was war and inflation that
caused the demise of the Soviet Union. I don't know
how much of Regan's build up was instrumental in that,
but certainly the internal problems of the Soviet Union led
to their implosion and then the liberation of Eastern Europe.

(26:16):
And of course what we did, as Michael knows, is
that NATO expanded east. Why when the Bush administration, the
first Bush administration, promised Gorbachev that NATO would not expand
after the collapse of the Sivit Union and the spending
of the Warsaw Pact. And so now NATO is on
the doorstep of Russia. Russia has national security interests just

(26:37):
as we do. And Russia said you shouldn't do this
and then and want Ukraine in NATO. And that's what
really triggered this Russian invasion of Ukraine. Besides, you have
ethnic Russians in eastern part of Ukraine, so you should
have a plebiscite, and that could have been resolved peacefully.
In fact, there was a peace agreement ready to be
signed by Zelenski and Putin, but the United States next it,

(27:01):
and that's what led to the invasion. So again the
United States has become one of the biggest warmongers in
the history of the world. And the military industrial complex
really runs foreign policy with the neo kons who want
to have a war in every part of the world
in order to make the world safe for democracy. Sounds familiar,
So it's the Wilsonian policy of making the world safe

(27:23):
for democracy. And the amazing thing during the Democratic Convention,
no one caught this. Obama said, we are not the
policeman of the world. No one mentioned this. I heard it,
and I said, thank goodness, someone's got some common sense.
But yet you, Kamala Harris are saying we're going to
defend Ukraine to the last Ukrainian And so if she
gets in, ah will will the draft be reinstated where

(27:48):
American boys and now girls will be drafted into the
into the military. So we have an unfolding disvest that
could lead to World War.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah, we're very close.

Speaker 5 (28:04):
I think Murray we lost Murray.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
No, it's just a it's probably just a quick thing.

Speaker 5 (28:09):
Mike, Okay, Murry, you with us.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
Maybe his WiFi.

Speaker 5 (28:12):
Went out, Yeah, let's see.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Murray. You there, Mello, We're gonna have to mend this
this show here. Ain't going to say.

Speaker 5 (28:37):
You're gonna call home.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah, let me do that, Michael. H he's trying to

(29:08):
connect again, Mike. Okay, buddy, this is the part that
you have to work if you want the next guest time.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
I see two. He's not back yet.

Speaker 4 (29:28):
Hmm.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
He said Obama. That's probably an algorithm. They cut you off.

Speaker 5 (29:37):
Yeah, you never helped her.

Speaker 4 (29:42):
M Hi, I'm back.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
Oh, thank you, Marian. That's okay. We'll get all produced
to just edit that. Don't worry about it. Okay.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
So you said the magic word, and I think that's
the algorithm. If you say Obama being it gets cut off.

Speaker 4 (30:09):
Maybe the NSA is listening in.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, oh, our calls are they're always they love our shows.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
In fact, I think they're the guys that comment on
them sometimes, you know.

Speaker 5 (30:20):
But a question, it should be a simple one for
someone who knows as much as you do about about
all of this stuff. But I can never find any
reason that there is a sanction for anything called the
presidential directive. Yeah, an executive order. There's nothing in the
Constitution about that, is there.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
I have.

Speaker 4 (30:40):
I've read the Constitution so many times. I mean, every
action by the federal government should be determined by Congress
voting on it and the president's signing it. I mean,
these extraordinary huh executive orders are just stunning. I don't
know when the first one was done. Maybe it was
done on the link and that's that the president. Certainly

(31:02):
Wilson did a lot of executive orders and started FDR
and Truman and others have done it. I mean, this
is where the Congress has really dropped the ball. They
should say and the court should say, listen, you can't
do this. This is not a statute that has been
has been debated in Congress, especially when.

Speaker 5 (31:21):
I've searched for that, where I've searched on the Internet
and searched in the books I have, and I can't
find a court case that has said it's okay to
do this or to or what the Congress does now
is delegate it's worth power to that to whoever whatever
is in who's ever in the White House. Yeah, those
are two enormous parts of the Constitution.

Speaker 4 (31:44):
This is the most troubling aspect of American government that
we talk about democracy. Whether the people's representatives vote on
these things, and so that is probably one of the
most troubling aspects of the United States today. Whether the
president can sign something one day and the law changes
overnight and.

Speaker 5 (32:03):
This is to be shut down the energy industry, I know, retarded.

Speaker 4 (32:08):
Pen Yeah, well, look look what Nixon did with the
gold standard in nineteen seventy one. He basically declared the
United States bankrupt when he said foreigners can no longer
cash in their dollars for gold. Yes, and so that
unleashed the inflation of the seventies. And then Voker came
in and raised interest rates to make the break the
back of inflation. And that's exactly what happened for two decades.

(32:31):
And now here we are with the FED, with the
Fed just putting the pedal to the metal, and we're
going to see a lot more inflation in the future,
even though the Fed is lowered interest rates, which is
going to unleash more inflation down the road.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
Absolutely, Mike, I want to tell him about the lady
we had on Murray. We had this very smart lady
on who's involved in health freedom, and she said this
what you were saying before about most of the boomers
didn't pay enough in and they're cashing out a lot.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
More now and that this thing is going to go
bust out pretty soon.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
And she's probably right because when you think about what
the guys in the sixties and seventies put in, you know,
we collected already if you started at sixty two. You know,
on the social security, especially the Medicare portion of it,
which is really that's another a whole thing besides social security. Also,
I made a point to Mike the other day, I

(33:24):
want to hear your opinion on this. Can't we just
say that we could back our money with oil in
the ground.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Can we do that?

Speaker 4 (33:32):
I guess you could, But it's oil has never been money.
I mean, gold and silver were chosen by the people
to be money, not the Government's just said our paper
money will not be the money. It will be the
referring to some ounce of gold. So example, the dollar
in nineteen seventy two is the fined is one twentieth

(33:53):
of an ounce of gold. That's why we had twenty
dollar gold pieces and now they're worth twenty six hundred
dollars because so many dollars have been created over the
past two hundred years. So technically it would be kind
of difficult to do it, I think, But let's try
something that's been used by people all over the world.

(34:13):
Gold has been the quintessential people's money. That's the whole point,
and that's why rothbuds. What is the government down to money?
Shows the evolution from barter to direct exchange to paper
money or money substitutes. That's what paper is. It's a
money substitute. It's not the money in and of itself.
It's not the real thing. The real thing is gold

(34:33):
and silver with which the people have used and the
governments have debased it because they love to what spend
more than they bring in. That's why they inflate, That's
why they issue debt, and the central banks then buy
up the debt and then we're off to the races.
And so this process has been continuing for hundreds and
hundreds of years, and we're reaching the crisis point here

(34:56):
in the United States because the debt is going hyperbolic, parabolic.
It's just going eleven trillion dollars of new debt in
the last five years, the same amount as the first
two hundred years in America.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
It just shows you, what do you think of crypto?
What do you think of crypto?

Speaker 4 (35:14):
I'm not an expert in crypto. But again it's not
real money. It's basically an asset that someone has created
and people are bidding on it. And the late Charliemonger,
the co chairman of berkra Hathaway, says it's really a bird,
dog crap, a dog turd or somebody called it a turd.

(35:34):
It's basically whoever wants to pay a higher price for it.
I mean bitteredly. The supply is restrained. Therefore there won't
be any more supply as I understand it, and so
therefore people bid it up. But the quick essential money
is gold, and that's why people use dollars because they
think it's backed by gold. If yes, people in the street,

(35:56):
what's backing our dollar? Either they'll say nothing or gold
or they don't care.

Speaker 7 (36:00):
Whatever you can say silver certificate when we were kids,
remember certificate. Yeah, let's let's we want to I want
to get some of your events in there. Tell us
what you guys are doing, and I do want to invite.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
You on our other show at National Show. Okay, but
tell us a little bit about the events you're doing.
What's up coming?

Speaker 4 (36:17):
November ninth, the Mesas Institute is having what they call
their Circle and Fort Myers. It's a Saturday, November ninth,
Friday after the election, and the U and the speakers
UH Mark Thornton, UH senior fellow at the Mes Institute.
Tom the the Renz is the new president and one
of the new senior fellows, and I will be speaking
about the election and what the impact will be on

(36:39):
the economy. And then the MEASA instead is having their
annual summit in two weeks down in Hilton Head, South Carolina.
I'll be attending it. I won't be speaking there. It'll
be a great event with speakers from all over the country,
UH and some international speakers about what's going on in
America today. I'll all be speaking. I'll be speaking at
International Men's Club and Naples on November fourth, right before

(37:03):
the election, on the Road to Serve Them. This is
the eightieth anniversary of High Expression book The Road to
Serve Them, and I'll be talking about all we on
the road to serve them. All the evidence suggests yes,
especially the incredible attack on free speech in America. This
is the most dangerous period we are for the Bill
of Rights, especially the First Amendment.

Speaker 5 (37:26):
Saw it yet, but Carrie came out yesterday yes, directly
said that the First Amendment has to go.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
You know, he's a.

Speaker 5 (37:35):
Man's an idiot.

Speaker 4 (37:36):
And Andy Kessler in today's Wall Street Journal has a
great column about free speech. How the free speech movement
began in Berkeley in nineteen sixty four, and those were
left wingers who said we have the right to speak.
Now the left wingers are saying, no one has the
right to speak unless we approve it. So we've gone
full circle with the left wingers there for free speech,
now they're against free speech. And this is why we're

(37:59):
such a day in dangerous times because statism and that's
really the debate in this country, not left and right
or democratic republican. It's statism versus liberty. And that's the
debate we need to have in this country. What is
the role of government? What should be the role of
government in a free society? And the statists don't want
to free society. They want to be control of everything
from health care to money, the transportation, to housing, you

(38:24):
name it. They want to control the workplace, they want
to control everything. They want to give us what the
Pilgrims tried four hundred years ago. And that's why we
celebrate Thanksgiving, they tried socialism collectivism and half the colony died.
And so now the people in charge, they think this
smarter than the rest of us, and they want to

(38:45):
control everything, especially healthcare. And that's why Trump hasn't been
held accountable for his lockdowns during COVID and Operation Warp Speed,
which gave us, according to some people, a bio weapon.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
Yeah, and what he did is he evaded did everything.
When people call him out on that, he just runs
away from it. He doesn't even answer it. And he
has to answer for it. He has to answer for
what he did on lockdowns and forcing people to take
something that they didn't have to do, and they lost jobs.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
Many people lost their jobs.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
Well, this is another example of Trump's I think, inability
to think rationally and clearly. If you're the president of
United States and one of your top medical doctor in
the government says, this is what you need to do,
what I would do is I want a second and
third opinion, because there are a lot of smart people
in this country. Maybe you're wrong. What if you're wrong
about what we should do regarding lockdowns and everything like that,

(39:37):
Because once he did the lockdown and then lifted it
after two weeks, the governor started doing lockdowns and that
imploded the economy. The Fed printed five trillion dollars of
new money. Stimulus checks went out all over the country,
and that fueled the inflation for the next two three years.
And so Trump is not owning up to it because

(39:58):
he thinks he in his own mind, he did a
great job when he laid the foundation for a government
of dimension in health care and the economy in a
way that was no one would believe there would have
happened a year or two earlier.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
You know, Murray, there were states in the south west Virginia,
Virginia and other areas well, Southwest Virginia especially where hospitals,
these systems were ready to close. It was like a
bust out. And this was like, oh my gosh, fell
out of heaven. The money fell out of heaven, you know,
And all of a sudden, these health care facilities were
all healed because everybody was running in the out of

(40:32):
healthcare facilities. So he bailed out the healthcare system in
some respect by doing that. And this money was just
crazy money. All of a sudden, these states that were
in the red, they were like, oh, we got budget surplus.
How do you get a budget surplus? Because they handed
your money and then the highways got built. And if
you go through some states in the South and down Murray,
the lights are so futuristic, you know, the lamps on

(40:54):
the interstates.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
You say, like, where'd all this money come from? It
was the Cares Act. There was another act. There was
another act. You know.

Speaker 4 (41:00):
Yeah, they've been spending money like there's no tomorrow. And
maybe there is no tomorrow. Maybe you know something we don't.
But the point is be with being on the verge
of World War three in two places, the Mid East
and Ukraine, where are the peacemakers? I mean President Kennedy said,
the foremost responsibility of government is to keep the peace.

(41:22):
And the neo Khans got us involved in Ukraine. They
got Ukraine to not have a piece agreement with Russia
and that's what caused the war there and they scuttled
Victoria Newland just said it. The crazy neo Khan who
worked in Republican and democratic administrations. She's the top warmonger

(41:42):
in government, and of course with Dick Cheney and supporting
Kamala Harris, I tells you something that tells you something
about Republicans who are supporting Kamala Harris. They want the
welfare warfare state to continue.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
You know who, you don't see anymore, either them or
remember back in the sixties with the hippies.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
None of these music groups, none of these music groups
who were all back in the Woodstock era, you know,
in Vietnam War, none of them are writing songs about
stopping war.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
And there's only one guy you hear.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
He's like, he's like a foghorn. What's his name up
in Kingston, New York, Gerald Celenti. He held a peace
rally the other day up in Kingston. He had Napolitano
there at the whole bunch of people. I mean, there's
no more, there's no more hippies, there's no more you know,
anti war songs. All of these guys are pro war.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
It's amazing.

Speaker 4 (42:28):
It's stunning what the Democratic Party has become, and they
become the big government party on steroids and including war.
There used to be four civil liberties against war, having
a mild welfare state. Now they're all in on on
U mandated vaccines, mandated, this mandated that. It's it's just

(42:48):
amazing that in my lifetime, just in the last decade,
how America has been transformed from a middle of the
row sort of status war economy to this full blown
status of the economy. And fortunately we have enough economic
freedom that the goods and service are still being produced.

(43:09):
We don't have gas lines, the shelves are stocked with goods.
Occasionally you'll see a shortage of something on the shelf,
but that's temporary. But that shows you the power of
entrepreneurship and markets that people are still willing to continue
producing under these onerous circumstances. And so the question is

(43:31):
when will the crisis unfold? And I think it's unfolding
right now because the brick nations, Brazil, Russia, India, China,
South Africa and other countries, they are concerned about being
under the US dollar, the hedge me of the US government.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Yes, so they.

Speaker 4 (43:47):
Want to move away from the dollar. They can't do
it quickly, They're going to do it slowly. They're accumulating gold,
that's why golds are an all time high. And they
realize that the US government is inflating like crazy. The
federal reserve is in flat like crazy. The US government's
spending money like crazy. Today is the last day of
this fiscal year, we're probably gonna have another two trillion
dollar deficit in supposedly good economic times. We've never had

(44:10):
two trillion dollar deficits in good economic times, or even
a trillion dollar deficit of good economic times. So everything
is out of whack in Washington, DC, and no one's
talking about the debt. The Wall Street Journal ten days
ago had two articles on the front page and in
the inside both Trump and Harris are not addressing the

(44:32):
national debt that we're facing. And this shows you that
they don't want to touch an issue that is so
important that they don't have a solution for because the
solution is cutting spending, and they don't want to go
there because obviously people who depend upon government spending will
be upset about it. So we're just going to muddle

(44:53):
along until the crisis occurs. And the crisis occurs, here's
the key point. The crisis will occur when the US
dollars starts sliding in overseas markets because foreigners are dumping dollars,
dumping treasuries, and they're getting into real assets. That's when
it's checkmate for the US government.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
Today will be the best day for the US employee
in Washington, DC and other offices around the country. This
is the only day that we get them to work overtime, Murray.
And you know why that is because they have to
They have to spend everything and say we need more
next fiscal year. You know how that works, right, Mury's
Taberin is so good to have you back. Hey, I'm

(45:33):
going to give you an email. We're going to get
you on another national show with us this week. We
need to get this stuff out there. Mike, go ahead,
Thank you, Mariy. It's always I always learn a lot
when you're out with us or when I listen to
you and other revenues, so many many things.

Speaker 4 (45:47):
Thanks so much for having me, guys. It's great. We
got to get the message out. The future of the
country depends upon returning to sound money, fiscal discipline, a
non interventions foreign policy that Washington and Jefferson warned us about,
the Ron Paul warned us about, Robert Taft warned us
about all the intellectual ammunition we have at our disposal.

(46:09):
We just got to get out to tens of millions
of Americans. And the problem is not Democrat Republican They're
the problem. The solution is not democratic, republican. The solution
is is liberty.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
Yeah, thank you sir, and saying we sent all regards
to de Lorenzo.

Speaker 4 (46:23):
Please, I will thank you so much.

Speaker 5 (46:24):
Guys, Bye bye, b'lle bye