July 18, 2024 • 38 mins
Today, The Two Mikes again welcomed back Gordon Oliver, who is with the non-profit
organization Cambridge Credit Management, which was founded in 1996.
Mr. Oliver said that much of the economy is still in a bad way, and the indications are that the republic’s economy may well get worse. He noted, to for example, that homeowners with adjustable mortgages have seen their interest rates rise from 4.4-percent to 7.5-percent.
Americans with school-loan debts to pay are also facing a situation where they will have to face the future alone as Biden is focused on getting help government employees working in all governmental levels – states, municipalities, cities, and the civil service. The largest percentage of the individuals in those categories are, not surprisingly, reliable Democratic voters.
Mr. Oliver added that the future economic outlook is unpredictable, as is obvious in the fact food prices continue to increase even as the administration says inflation is moderating. The first step for consumers, Mr. Oliver said, is to get a handle on your monthly expenses by making a list of the expenses that you must pay every month, mortgage, rent, or other contractual debts, groceries, utilities, child- care, gasoline, insurance payments, etc. and see how much you are committed to monthly and see if one or more category can be reduced.
This is an important and sometimes complicated process but Mr. Oliver’s organization offers free – yes, free -- assistance for people who are ready to prepare a budget that will help them get through what appears to be the tough economic road that lies ahead.
Subscribe to Freedom First Network on Rumble to watch all of our shows LIVE: https://freedomfirst.tv
Elevate your meals with Freedom First Beef… even if you find yourself in the middle of the apocalypse! Use code TWOMIKES for 15% off and enjoy high-quality beef whenever you crave it – today or tomorrow! https://freedomfirstbeef.com
Be ready for anything life throws your way with The Wellness Company's Medical Emergency Kit. Order today using code TWOMIKES for a 10% discount at https://twc.health/ffn.
Protect your financial future with precious metals! Get your FREE Gold and Silver Guide from Genesis Gold today and take control of your financial destiny! https://pickaxgold.com
Unleash the spirit of liberty in every cup with Freedom First Coffee's Founders Blend. Order now using code TWOMIKES and savor the unparalleled taste of freedom in every patriotic sip. https://freedomfirstcoffee.com
organization Cambridge Credit Management, which was founded in 1996.
Mr. Oliver said that much of the economy is still in a bad way, and the indications are that the republic’s economy may well get worse. He noted, to for example, that homeowners with adjustable mortgages have seen their interest rates rise from 4.4-percent to 7.5-percent.
Americans with school-loan debts to pay are also facing a situation where they will have to face the future alone as Biden is focused on getting help government employees working in all governmental levels – states, municipalities, cities, and the civil service. The largest percentage of the individuals in those categories are, not surprisingly, reliable Democratic voters.
Mr. Oliver added that the future economic outlook is unpredictable, as is obvious in the fact food prices continue to increase even as the administration says inflation is moderating. The first step for consumers, Mr. Oliver said, is to get a handle on your monthly expenses by making a list of the expenses that you must pay every month, mortgage, rent, or other contractual debts, groceries, utilities, child- care, gasoline, insurance payments, etc. and see how much you are committed to monthly and see if one or more category can be reduced.
This is an important and sometimes complicated process but Mr. Oliver’s organization offers free – yes, free -- assistance for people who are ready to prepare a budget that will help them get through what appears to be the tough economic road that lies ahead.
Subscribe to Freedom First Network on Rumble to watch all of our shows LIVE: https://freedomfirst.tv
Elevate your meals with Freedom First Beef… even if you find yourself in the middle of the apocalypse! Use code TWOMIKES for 15% off and enjoy high-quality beef whenever you crave it – today or tomorrow! https://freedomfirstbeef.com
Be ready for anything life throws your way with The Wellness Company's Medical Emergency Kit. Order today using code TWOMIKES for a 10% discount at https://twc.health/ffn.
Protect your financial future with precious metals! Get your FREE Gold and Silver Guide from Genesis Gold today and take control of your financial destiny! https://pickaxgold.com
Unleash the spirit of liberty in every cup with Freedom First Coffee's Founders Blend. Order now using code TWOMIKES and savor the unparalleled taste of freedom in every patriotic sip. https://freedomfirstcoffee.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Hey, welcome back to two Mics. I just want to run this by
all of you in America because wecan't do this outside of the country.
But again I want to say thankyou. We're going on a four years
Thank you to everybody, guests,past, present, future listeners around the
globe. Listeners are back at home, and especially to our sponsors, So
(00:24):
thank you so much. By fourthree two one, Hey, welcome back
(00:57):
your own two mics, Doctor MichaelShouyer and Colonel Mike, doctor Michael Shower
New York Times Bestselling Health there's stillthese books are still selling. They're hotter
than ever. I guess because there'snothing going on in the Middle East,
no more things going everything's safe downin the Middle East. I think we
spent all our money in Israel andUkraine. So maybe his books will cool
(01:18):
down a while. And I haveno idea. Don't forget to go to
two Bikes tw Mike's dot us twoMikes dot Us. I guess who's on
today with us. He hasn't beenon for a long time and he's back.
I guess it was, you know, the holidays, Memorial Day weekend,
and then the graduations, and thenwe have fourth of July. Well,
now here comes the reality show withour friend Gordon Oliver, and it's
(01:42):
right after fourth of July, sothe fireworks are over, and I'm gonna
ask them an opening question, whichis what's worse the economy, the credit
or the hurricane that happened in Houstonthe other day. Yeah, hi,
guys, thank you for having me. Seems like I probably could be on
every day at this point with what'sgoing on in the world. Obviously,
(02:04):
our thoughts of prayers out to peopledealing with the hurricane, and that's never
a good situation because that typically comeswith some financial problems, financial angst.
And by the way, just aquick shot to the media, just like
it was with Hurricane Satabell. Theywere very quick to show the waves crashing
and the boats filed on top ofeach other while the hurricane was going down,
(02:24):
but didn't follow up with the Americanpublic to tell people it took eighteen
nineteen twenty months to get insurance companiesto turn things around as far as financial
help and financial aids. So Ihope it's not the same for the people
in Texas as they deal with whateverfinancial problems come. But in reality,
(02:45):
the economy doesn't go away like thehurricane does. Right, what's the hurricane's
gone when you start preparing to getyour life back in order. Where the
economy has slowly but surely just beenin a terrible position and the reality is
too we're still not being told thetruth on many things, and I'd love
to get into that with you gentlementoday. Please do, But first I
(03:08):
want you to tell us. Isee a banner on the screen which I've
never seen before. Tell us aboutthat you have a new podcast there.
So actually thank you for asking.We had The Cambridge Connection, which was
a podcast that we did about sixtyeight episodes. We were recording it in
a radio studio. We are bringingit in house. It's been on hiatus,
(03:30):
but as we're having this discussion,there's no better time to reinvigorate the
podcast because it really was twenty eightminutes of just focusing on things that inform
the American public on things that theyshould be thinking about while they're dealing with
the economy where everything costs more.So we brought it in house. I'm
re recording the sixty ninth episode andI'll share it with you guys, if
(03:54):
you don't mind sharing with the listeners. Oh no, no, not alone.
We're happy. Congratulations you guys aredoing it. Thank you. Always
do good work. Your organizations dogood work for a long time now.
And you know, we have peoplethat all the time ask us, well,
how how do you know these guys? Are you sure? And I'm
like, just turn on the TVin the morning, like this morning when
(04:15):
I turned it on Gordon. Theyhave this new thing now they think they're
doing us a favor on the localTV. So they do this little thing
and they go to the supermarket andthey say, looks, eggs are up
fifty nine cents from last week.And just to show you, the FDIs,
the FDA or somebody said one ofthe government organizations, Oh, it's
only going to go up thirty eightcents, but now it's fifty nine.
(04:35):
You know, they do these littletidbits. But if you add up every
day that they go on there andevery week they go on there, and
the eggs and the milk and thebutter and this, and then they said,
I forgot what the organization was,but they said, oh, well,
we're going to continue to go offuntil the end of the year,
you know, one to three percent. Well, when you look at fifty
(04:56):
nine cents on eggs in a week. That's a lot more than one to
three. Said, no, it'sa lot. And here this is the
kind of like the hurricane story thatgoes away that I try to always be
out there saying these things because thereality is, and I know people hear
it, they're going to connect withit. It's not like this goes away.
(05:17):
And here's the problem. So ifwe back up to when the economy
got opened up again in May oftwenty what was it twenty twenty one,
May of twenty twenty one, wherewe kind of got opened up again,
that was when you started to seethe decline in the economy because so many
things are catching up, things thatdon't want to be discussed, like the
Summer of Love. Destruction. Insurancefor everybody has just gone through the roof.
(05:41):
So everybody's seeing increases in homeowners insurance, auto insurance. So you get
that bill. I think mine wentup from one twenty one to one fifty
five on a monthly basis. Right. So, and it's funny too.
For context, my dad calls meFrank, like, I've been with X
insurance company for fifty years and theyjust want to increase my insurance and I'm
(06:05):
like that, I calm down.It's happening to everybody across the board.
So you bring in what you're discussingfood costs and the way they're trickling how
everything's increasing, trying not to makepeople panic. You talk about insurance.
Here's another one, gentlemen, thatno one's talking about the adjustable rate mortgages
that people get sold into when therate is reasonable. Right, all these
(06:29):
people that had four percent interest rateloans are now the adjustable rate is coming
to roost, and now they're goingto be dealing with seven percent interests,
which means their mortgage payment goes up, which means their insurance goes up,
their s world goes up, andpeople already are overextended. So getting back
to the grocery issue, what we'vebeen seeing is when people call in,
(06:49):
the first thing that we do isa budget with them, because we need
to see what's the picture, what'sthe spending, you know, what's coming
in and what's going on. That'stypical. That's what we do with every
consumer since nineteen ninety six when andit doesn't cost anything. No, the
counseling is freeze let's get let's narrowdown what the options are, because number
(07:10):
one, it prevents people from gettingscammed. Right, So when people are
desperate, they look at, youknow, things that will maybe be a
quick fix, and a lot oftimes there's no such thing. So when
we do the budget, what's happeningnow is people would be using credit cards
to shoulder the extra expense that comesfrom everything. Put guests on the credit
card, put groceries on the creditcard, put whatever you can on the
(07:32):
credit card. Holiday is spending thatwe have no money for. And then
are people paying all the money thatthey put on the card month a month.
No, they're paying what they can, which means the balance is rising.
And then when you become a riskwith credit card companies, the rates
down for high risk people are twentynine thirty thirty two percent. So you're
talking about you were in trouble atone point. When the interest goes up,
(07:53):
so does your payment. So nowyou've got mortgage payments going up,
Rent's going up, the cost ofeverything is going up. And this is
why it's surprises me a bit thatthat we're still not messaging people properly about
where we're really at. But That'swhy the last time I talked to you
guys, I know I've said ita million times. If there's any time
to create a budget, bat downthe hatches, this is definitely it.
(08:16):
Michael. Yeah, it's it's reallya difficult situation to see, you know,
just the impression you get when you'rewalking through the supermarket. We have
a Kroger's here, and I thinkthey do a pretty good job with not
increasing too much. But they justcan't not increase prices because they're they're producing,
they're distributors have higher prices. Butto see older people, and I'm
(08:41):
older people, and I get Iguess I can't get used to it.
But when you see old people goingthrough the the store, you know,
and they're picking one thing and puttingit back and looking for another one,
and you know they're looking for somethingcheaper, it's a it's a terrible thing.
It's it's uh, you know,we thought we finished this in the
thirties, and now they're deliberately doingthis to us again. You know,
(09:05):
you guys do it such a greatjob. Can they possibly do? You
think? This one sticks in mymind and I always ask you about it.
Do you think that they're going totry another effort to give away people's
money to these students who borrowed it. Expect so excellent question. So just
(09:30):
for context, right, I hada post that I put on and you
guys, please just make sure you'resitting. One of the customers that we
were counseling got nine hundred and fortythousand dollars in federal student loans forgiven.
And when I posted it, Igot immediately feedback from somebody saying, well,
(09:50):
this is falling on the tax payer. And the reason that that kind
of approach comes from someone that doesn'tlike that idea, which I get.
The public's are loan forgiveness program wasdeveloped in two thousand and seven during the
Bush administration. And then the realsimple facts are from in two thousand and
seven of October. If you werea public servant, you needed to work
(10:11):
for an eligible employer, which isgovernment, city, state, municipality five
o' one c three, some tribalorganizations. You need to make it one
hundred and twenty payments on an approvedeligible repayment program to the Department of Education,
and you had to have direct loans. So in twenty seventeen, effectively
gentlemen, there were hundreds of thousandsof people that should get their loans forgiven
(10:35):
that were in public service for thoseten years, but the program was broken.
People didn't know they needed certain loantypes that they could have fixed.
They didn't know that they needed acertain repayment program, and would find out
that they didn't have one payment towardsthe one hundred and twenty they needed to
get the loans forgiven. So wait, wait, stop right their second they
found out not one payment. Yeah, because the things I laid out,
(10:56):
you have to be on an appropriaterepayment program. The consumer, the public
servant didn't know that because the Departmentof Education did a terrible job communicating Wow,
so people just thought if I'm apublic service in ten years a servant,
I'm in ten years, I'm goingto get my loans forgiven. And
when we were counseling people, we'dhave to give them this really bad news,
like you don't have one eligible paymenttowards one hundred and twenty and they've
(11:18):
been paying for ten years or so. Fast forward after COVID, they put
a retroactive program in place so thatif you paid one hundred and twenty payments,
if you were on the wronger paymentprogram, they would fix it and
give you the retroactive credit. Ifyou had the wrong loan type, you
could consolidate it into a direct loanand they would give you retroactive credit.
So a lot of these people werestill confused when we counseled them. We
(11:39):
were explaining these programs that would helpthem actually get the loans forgiven because they
were supposed to as a public servant. So when this news comes out,
when we report something like that,it immediately gets confused with what the Biden
administration is trying to do, whichis just give money away, and that's
continuously gotten blocked. So that's theextra handouts haven't been approved. What they're
(12:03):
trying to do is utilize people thatwere misled by colleges to get their loans
forgiven now and that always going throughthe court systems. Who knows when that
will come to fruition. But alsothe repayment Programs to save program, the
new one that they put out therefor undergraduate lenders undergraduate students in July this
month, they were supposed to beable to have a reduction in the calculation
(12:26):
of what their pay would be.But there's been some court activity there too,
and some of that's gotten blocked.So it really is a legal battle,
and it is the balance between whattruly was in place from Congress since
two thousand and seven. For publicservants and for the regular person, they're
supposed to take a twenty to twentyfive year path. If they have loan
balances left, they'll get forgiven becausethe forgiveness for people that work for for
(12:52):
profit companies like a home depot,for example, they don't have public service
eligibility, so they'd have to goto twenty or the twenty five years,
and then if something was available balancewise, then that we get forgiven.
But who rolls up nine hundred dollars, that's a great question, colonel.
It is that much money. Okay, I I could talk to you guys
(13:13):
for hours, and I'll try notto like, oh, just give us
the simplifying. I want my headto blow off, so let me just
take a deep breath. So thereality is that I'll give you a perfect
example. I've got a relative thathas got her degree undergrad for psychology,
(13:35):
and in order for her to getahead, she has to take a graduate
program that's going to cost one hundredand sixty thousand dollars and it doesn't really
matter where she goes. The trueproblem here, gentlemen, is, and
nobody's talking about it enough, isthe cost to go to college and the
amount of money that's being charged backedby the government, because you get these
(13:56):
direct loans, the graduate undergraduate loans, and the only real credit check that
comes with those are the graduate andor actually just the parent plus loans.
So when parents are actually funding theeducation, they actually have to have decent
credit. They could have. Itdoesn't have to be perfect because they just
have to have they have to avoidhaving like things and collections or wage garnishments
(14:18):
and whatnot. So the interest rateson those loans, guys, is like
between eight and twelve percent, notgreat. And the government is lending the
money, which is tax payer money. Right, So if nobody wants to
curb these colleges, these universities thathave ridiculous endowments and have ridiculous amounts of
money in their coffers, and ifnobody goes after what it costs to go
(14:43):
to college, that the problem willnever change. It's never gonna it's gonna
only get worse. Actually, Soit's actually also the tenured guys, my
tenured professors. You know, theydon't take a discount. It's all those
things, colonel, but it's it'sthe fact that the government ever got involved
in this in the beginning. Never, And if there wasn't the loans,
(15:03):
the price of going to school wouldn'tbe so high because the classrooms would be
empty. And getting back to yourquestion, just think about the open checkbook.
If you go, if you doyour undergrad degree and that costs eighty
grand, then you do your masters, which is one hundred and sixty thousand,
so that's two forty. Then youdecide you want to get another master's
(15:24):
in another realm, sign up atstudent a dot gov, get loans.
Then you talk at another one hundredand sixty maybe that's now four hundred thousand.
Now you want to get educated insomething else. That's how that kind
of thing can happen. Oh mygosh. Yeah, Well, where is
the where is the common sense inall of this? Well, that's a
great question for sometimes when we're counselingpeople and they have ideas like well,
(15:48):
I think I'm going to go backto school, then we have to try
to very kindly say, Okay,what's that going to cost and what is
that going to do for your incomeonce you add that degree to actually pay
that hundred sixty thousand dollars back.Yeah, Like that's the kind of conversation
we have to have because it sometimespeople are lost, Like now we're in
this after COVID, everybody's like rethinkingtheir life. Right, It's like land
(16:11):
is so people want to now,Oh, I'm gonna go I don't want
to do this anymore because that's notby truth. I want to, you
know, go do this, andnow I have to go to school for
that. That's another one hundred andsixty thousand. It just you know,
at some point that has to becurtailed. And you know it just you're
in trouble. Man. I'm nota doomsday guy, and I'm all about
(16:33):
let's take what we got today anddeal with it. No reality is reality,
and you know, be a realist. Hey, let me ask you
a question about Sally May. Isthat part of our government or is that
just one of these like Fanny Maykind of names. Sally May usually now
is private loans. They're not they'renot direct loans with Sally May. They're
typically private funding. They have abeautiful, big, big, big,
(16:57):
huge building near adult Sandport in Virginia, So I figured they must be making
as the money. Yeah, they'vebeen around for a while, attached to
the government. So what the oldloans used to be before two thousand,
Actually they back up real quick.Nineteen ninety two Congress passed the direct loan
program, but it didn't really takesteam until the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program
(17:22):
came to be developed. And thenbecause you had to have direct loans,
the older loans were called family FederalEducation loans, which was private banks lending
the money to students, and thisis from the fifties all the way to
twenty ten. The program got endedin twenty ten, but it was private
banks that would lend the money insteadof the government, but the government would
(17:44):
guarantee the funds if the consumer didn'tpay. So Sally May has been part
of that for a real long time. They've been around since the seventies,
engaged in the student loan space withthe government. Do they still have those
loans for students with the names?Remember they used to have loans Gordon Mike
years ago. You could get aloan and it had somebody's name attached to
(18:06):
it. I guess it was acongress. Well, William d Ford.
This is why it's so convoluted whenyou look at what we do our webinars,
we explained like we talked to allof these things like the William d
Ford program, but really you justneed to know is it a direct loan
or is it not a direct loan? And then they get confused with what
subsidized is which first subsidized. Sothe difference between those two is while you're
(18:32):
in school. Unsubsidized loans interest tocruise, So people are in debt borrowing
and interest is piling on while they'renot making payments. And subsidized is typically
for lower income people where the governmentcovers the interests while they're in school on
their loans. You know what,you know, it would be a nice
curriculum, Mike and Gordon somebody tohave, like a financial curriculum telling them
(18:56):
just a whole business curriculum about howto stay away from certain loans while you
going to school, because you're goingto have credit problems no matter, because
they're going to spend money anyway oncredit cards between the gas, the car,
the food, the apartment. Right, So they're going to be.
I mean, they're in debt bigtime before they even see daylight. Let
me give you a great example,just as a perfect accompaniment to that comment,
(19:21):
when we go to college universities anddo a student loan webinar, seminar,
etc. And we do a brushoverof debt management. Because you have
people that are just coming out ofhigh school going to school, and you've
got people in their twenties and thirtiesand graduate programs. We are standing room
only, and at the end ofthe webinar, we've got to line out
the door of people that want totalk about what do I do with my
(19:41):
loans? Is interest accruing? I'musing my credit cards to get by?
What do I do about that?So all of that is so true while
people are in college. Either theyignore it or they're heads in the sand,
or they're a young high school studentand no one's taught them anything.
They don't even know what it feelslike, what they're going to pay when
they get out of school, orthat interest is accruing if it's a unsubsidized
(20:03):
So you know, twenty years agothey worked on a program with the new
recruits going into the military right.So as soon as they you know,
one, two, three months ata boot camp, they're looking for a
brand new car, right, Sowhat do they do. They go to
the dealership and these are like,it's this is like shark beat, you
know. I mean they just seethese kids, they know they got a
(20:23):
check and they know they can't bein the car, and they put them
in a payment that's almost the completecheck for the month, you know,
and then they had a question like, go ahead. My first question to
you is did you use the sharkbait because it's shark week or that that
was a great tie. But butyou're right. So so the lender,
(20:45):
right, the bank, Yeah,at the auto place, they know they're
in the military, so they knowthat people can't go bad on the loan,
so they don't pretty much approve anythingwithin their standards. But you know,
they came out with a program likeyears later where all these recruits had
to go through something like what you'redoing and say, hey, you just
can't. They wouldn't even let themgo to a car dealership without two other
(21:07):
people to some you know, somebodyhigher up and rank and make sure that
they could afford the car and notbe buried. Because these guys were buried
for like three four years. Youknow, they couldn't have popcorn and beer
after that, and they had nomoney. If I had a drone,
I would have it fly by yournotebook right now to see if it says
I'm going to find a way tomake Gordon's head blow off on this podcast,
(21:30):
because because now you have you everdriven by a used car dealer and
it says, hey, come on, congratulations, everyone gets approved, What
does that mean? In reality?That means you're going to probably pay the
car loan right thirty percent on thecar loan, which if people have that
kind of credit, they shouldn't beborrowing to get themselves in further trouble.
(21:51):
And it's the same thing with paydayloans. People once they get to that
status, they're in big trouble andthey're never going to turn it around.
This They pretty much typically fall downnext thing, you know, they can't
make the payments, cars getting reboiled, they still owe the balance. It's
just a path to nowhere. Butthis is our this is our world,
right, This is the corporate sideof things that is a dark side that
just doesn't really care about the wellbeing of people. They'll just make money,
(22:15):
sell things and who cares, rightAnd the other thing about the car
loans with thirty percent, a lotof those cars are not even in good
shape. Let's face it, they'regoing to pay you one thousand dollars in
the next three months doing minor repairs, you know now they have no money.
Yes, they probably have a clockin the in the car dealers where
they're counting down the thirty days thatthe client can turn the car back in
(22:38):
because it's piece of garbage. Soyes, it's a dirty business for sure,
there's no question about it. Terriblegosh, it must be the morning
for heads exploding. When you wentdown your list about these this city,
municipalities, state, federal, yousaid, five oh one C three's right,
yep. You know, we've learnedover the past three and a half
(23:02):
four years now that five O oneC threes are a key element of flooding.
This country's with illegals and violent illegalsand criminal legals. Why in the
world are they being treated as civilservants. I don't have any idea and
full disclosure, Cambridge Better Counseling isa five O one C three nonprofit who's
(23:25):
not engaged in that we are actuallyhelping people with that problems. But no,
I wasn't accusing you of anything.No, I no, I think
Mike's speaking about Mike speaking about thefive oh one seed. Mike, you
got to be specific in this fiveoh one C threes that are doing humanitarian
work NGO work on the Yes.And I really I was just kind of
(23:47):
being I didn't know. I hadno idea five O one C three's were
capable to get these loans either.Yeah, And it's the employee e right,
So it's the it's the employees.So if you are an employee of
that organization with the work you do, and you work a minimum of thirty
hours, then it would be tenyears, one hundred and twenty payments.
And I'm not sure why the fiveoh one C three falls into the category.
(24:11):
This is again the government's way ofthe creation of this program of who's
eligible. End there are some CEsixes and other nonprofits that are ineligible depending
on the corporate status that they have. So that's one of the things.
Big book. You guys have abig book to go through just to deal
with one person, you know,depending on where they're coming from. Yeah,
(24:36):
we figured out how to narrow itdown. But the way the process
works, which kind of takes ourhands out of it a little bit,
is the employer. So let's sayyou work for Cambridge Credit Counsel MIGHT and
you've been there for ten years,you have direct loans, you've been on
the right repayment program. You fillout the top section which is demographic information,
social Security number, and the secondpage to get the loans forgiven or
(24:59):
to f fgure out how many eligiblepayments you have is filled out by the
HR director or the superintendent of schools. For educators, they have to qualify
that they're an eligible employer with theirthe I, D, E, I
N. And then they have toqualify the amount of time the employees worked
how many hours per week. Soit's a form that actually has to be
(25:22):
filled out by the employer, andif they're not an eligible entity based on
the parameters, then they just don'tThey can't fill the format because they're not
eligible. Well, Gordon, it'sclear that that you know people will work
for you ought to get some kindof a reward for helping people who are
really sinking. The point I wasthere was kind of forming slowly in my
(25:44):
mind was, does anybody ever patrolor examine in the government. Is there
is there a like a I don'tknow what, what do you call them?
The bludsmur, the head attorney thatit looks to make sure these people
are doing what they say they're doing. Have a one C three Now,
(26:06):
it seems to me Lutheran services,Catholic charities, there should be none of
that since they're head start of thecountry. Yeah, their corporations typically are
not eligible because of the of theof the C type. And to your
point, and let me just saythis, guys, I for the public
servant side, this comes back tothe core issue on how the country is
(26:29):
being divided right now. All ofthese headlines about the student loans and their
forgiveness and the Biden administration, whatthey're trying to do. A lot of
the stuff is victory laps for themthat was already kind of in place,
but they're just the government is structurallyworking on trying to fix it. At
the end of the day, ifyou're a firefighter and you went to school
and you're a public servant, itcomes back to the reality that the plans
(26:55):
that they give you to pay thatare eligible are income driven, which means
if you you're a low income individualwith a family of flour, you could
actually pay nothing per month for onehundred and twenty payments, which means that
loan's growing, which means interest isaccruing. And then after the ten years
you get the loans forgiven. Itall comes back to how much did this
firefighter have to borrow? How muchdoes a teacher have to borrow to get
(27:19):
their masters and then in ten yearsget their loans forgiven. So it wouldn't
be so bad for the taxpayer ifwe found a way to curb what the
cost is, which isn't really beingthere's no oversight on that. Now,
getting back to your actual question,the question in my mind is, I
don't know if they're rubber stamping theseapplications. I don't know people are getting
(27:41):
their loans forgiven left and right nowbecause of the fix. But that fix
is now coming to an end accordingto the Department of Education, And I
just don't know if somebody to yourquestion, if this is on the audit
side, right, are they justrubber stamping these apps or are they actually
qualified people? And the ones we'reseeing, I don't see too many that
(28:04):
I'm like, how did that happen? And I talked to our student loan
council manager all the time, andmost of the people that are getting them
forgiven that we're helping are deserve it, right, They've paid the time,
they just didn't know they needed acertain thing. But a lot of our
clients too, are you know,teachers' unions, public service agencies, so
(28:25):
a lot of them are already onestep eligible from who they work for,
who they have worked for the lastten years. Well, you know,
I just Steve and I both comefrom blue collar families, and it's a
it's really offensive to me to beforgiving money that was was borrowed deliberately,
(28:49):
knowingly. But at the same time, the people who borrowed the money are
being extorted by the universities. Agreed, It's like an in the House theft
governship. Mike is just one moreentitlement in the bag of entitlements by being
in Congress to stay in Congress toget re elected, just like Joe Biden's
(29:14):
using it as a weapon to getreelected. I can forgive loans. I
mean, yeah, you know,I understand the blue collar thing, you
know, but you know what we'reso far down the road. You know,
the bottom line is how do youhelp people with bed credit because of
what this country did to them,whether it's in student loans, auto loans.
You know, look at the lookat seven percent interest rates for mortgages.
(29:36):
You know where we had Gordon onyears ago. You know, we
didn't even talk about seven percent onmortgages that were in the rocket economy,
you know, and we were justtrying to get people back on track.
So, you know, we're sofar down the road. Let's put it
that way. Just we have totry to fix whatever we can. Yeah,
they're taking it, look it withblue collar Mike, but look what's
(29:57):
coming. You know it has notdo it. You know, having a
conversation well with Gordon at this point, but you know, reality is,
Gordon, they're letting people in overthe border day one. They get Social
Security, Medicare, housing and everything, and that's our money. But you
know it's not just the Republican orjust the Democratic Party, it's both parties.
And why are they're allowing us Ifwe had the answer, that's the
(30:19):
sixty four thousand dollars one? Okay, yeah, why would you allow it?
You know? But right now tothe listeners on the two mics.
If you got any problems, here'sour friend. He's been with us for
a long time. You can goto the website two Mikes dot Us click
the thing. It's just a matterof doing the budget with him. And
I know you're hurting. There's peoplethat listen to the show that are not,
(30:40):
you know, healed. Let's putit this way. A lot of
people that listen to this show arepretty much middle class. Would you say
so, Mike? I think so, yeah, because we piss off the
rich people. I was just gonnasay, guys, I know, I
put my opinion out there, andI have another one real quick. If
I need help finding a job,I'll reach out to you. Guys.
(31:00):
Maybe you can send my name around. But the reality is is what's going
on with the border and whatnot.I think it's just like the people forget
that going to college. That allegiatebusiness is a machine. It is just
look at the sports. It's amoney machine. Yes, you have to
look at the legal system of allof this. Who's making these things happen?
(31:25):
And again, the problem that wehave as a citizen is we're so
busy doing everything to survive that noone has the time, and that's where
they want us. That's where theywant us. Gordon. I completely agree,
Mike completely. They want us busy. And the other thing is when
you speak to these people who youcounsel and you have to say to them,
well, do you think you wantto disconnect the cable of Netflix or
(31:48):
Sports? I can imagine they're crying, no, not Sports, No,
not Netflix, please please, I'lltake away the Starbucks, but Netflix,
because we're just we're just that's Americanpeople today. You know the sort.
Yeah, you can get the socialmedia. There's been proof that it's it's
there's an addiction to your phone.There's an addiction to and that's why people.
(32:10):
Are they going to not get thenext new iPhone? No, they're
going to They're gonna do it.They're not gonna stop living. Restaurants have
increased their prices three, four orfive times because of the increase in costs,
and people aren't stopping going to therestaurant. No, they're not.
You noticed that nobody's stopped it.How about this summer have you been out
have you walked around and watched therestaurants with the tents and everything going on.
(32:31):
I haven't. Yeah, and thepends is, I can't believe the
price of burgers. I can't believethe price of food outside. It's just
when I go out to eat oncein a while with my family, Okay,
I look at them and I'm like, really, we're gonna go eatier.
You got to be kidding me.You know, you got to be
kidding me, Like, I can't. I can't pass. It doesn't.
(32:53):
It doesn't go through my mind morethan four bucks for a burger. Okay,
it just doesn't go through my mindmind you nand And I understand.
I understand the cost. I understandwhat's going on. But you know,
I just stay away from restaurants asmuch as I can. I just think
it's just it's just way too much, you know. Now with the phone,
(33:14):
with the phones, I got tobe honest with my partner here,
doctor Mike. No problem with him. Actually he looks for his phone every
day. He doesn't even want totalk to it. Okay, Look,
I appreciate you guys having me on. And these are the kind of hard
conversations that we have to have.And at the end of it all,
(33:36):
you know, you guys are conservativesand and I look at the one principle
and conservatives and being fiscally responsible.We know our government's not, but in
your household you can be. Youjust have to make the leap to start
making some changes. And the questioncan be about do we have to have
the hard conversations with people about cancelingthings? Yes, we do, and
(33:59):
we do have of them. Andyou know it's a dialogue, right what
can we give up? What canwe stop doing? Can we can we
can entertainment take ahead for six monthsto use that money elsewhere. That's the
kind of stuff well we have totalk to people about and whether they do
it or not, you know isit's hard sometimes to make changes. But
(34:19):
if you try to survive and youwant to keep the roof over your head,
sometimes you got to really really tightenthings up. And that's the kind
of that's why the counsel is freethat we just go through this exercise of
people see what the alternatives are oncewe tighten things up. Thank you,
sir, go ahead, Mike.Can I have just one more question?
I'm sorry to keep you. Doyou ever talk to young married couples about
(34:39):
how to anticipate educational things? Andyou know that they have to be active
in telling their children they can theycan tour whatever school they want, but
to where they can go and wherethey can't go. It seems to me
that people I meet much younger thanmyselves and their families, that parents are
(35:04):
more pales than parents at the moment. And yeah, but the problem is
the institutions, the people that theysee every day in the hallway at school.
You know, they're promoting the collegeway, right they Oh, sure,
but I mean that I should havean If your kid decides to sign
up for school that costs seventy twogrand a year, you got to have
(35:29):
the gumption to say, you know, no, I got other children that
are going to go to school.We want to have a better house.
At some point, you're going tohave to find another choice or I'll find
one for you. Yeah, andthat debate at that point, you're talking
to a very inexperienced individual at theage of seventeen or eighteen. Yes,
And the tangible, uh, thetangibility of knowing how to pay bills of
(35:52):
what that really costs isn't typically developed. And they have great programs for financial
literacy pay through twelve, like Junioror Chief even but until it's tangible,
until it's real world, until youunderstand if somebody doesn't tell you, okay,
you're gonna borrow one hundred and sixtythousand, what's this average salary of
the type of work that you're goingto do. And then by the way,
(36:15):
you're gonna have rent or mortgage,and you shouldn't be spending more than
twenty five to twenty eight percent ofyour pay on that. Then you're gonna
have an auto loaded auto insurance becauseyou have to get to work or transit
whatever you want to call it.Then you have to eat, Then you
have to pay for essentials. Sonow that costs this and you have to
make this much money, and you'regonna need to make this payment for ten,
(36:38):
fifteen, twenty years, which isgonna cost you this much an interest.
That's the conversations that you know aren'tbeing had, aren't being had absolutely,
And you know, unfortunately parents areunder pressure at that point where the
the you know, the heartstrings totheir kids. They think they want them
to be success. Now they'll takea they'll take the hit for it.
(36:58):
But then once that ugly bill comesaround, man, and then you see
your kids that what happens if aparent loses a job. They don't even
think about these things, you knowwhat I mean, Or guys, you
know, simply die. What areyou gonna do? It's no what's funny
about that question is what happens thereis there's an alternative. You can call
the student loan UH servicer for federalloans and say I lost my job,
(37:21):
I need to go on an incomedriven plan. But the problem is on
income driven plans, the interest tocruiz right. Unless you can get a
deferment like a hardship deferment, thenthe interested cruise. So the problems getting
worse essentially, and then when peopleknow they can do it for twelve months
and it's a relief, they're like, oh yeah, I'll do this for
twelve months, and they go outand spend money anyway exactly, and then
(37:42):
the balance is higher, and thenwe got to deal with it. All
right. Well, let's wrap itup. Thank you, Gordon Oliver.
We haven't heard from you in awhile, and keep in touch. Please,
you can come on as much asyou want. You know that I'm
happy. Let's I'll email you atthe end of the program and let's put
a little you have such a calendar. I love it. I gotta I
gotta pop around, find the hourbefore you go for what's the name of
(38:06):
the new podcast. They're on thescreen like you can't see it. The
the Cambridge Connection, the Cambridge Connection. I just want the notes I get
it's on the screen. Okay,I'll send send the next new episode to
you, guys. What'ce it's complete? Great? All right, thank you,
hey, stay cool, Bye bye, Thanks Gordon, Thanks guys.
Hey, welcome back to two Mics. I just want to run this by
all of you in America because wecan't do this outside of the country.
But again I want to say thankyou. We're going on a four years
Thank you to everybody, guests,past, present, future listeners around the
globe. Listeners are back at home, and especially to our sponsors, So
(00:24):
thank you so much. By fourthree two one, Hey, welcome back
(00:57):
your own two mics, Doctor MichaelShouyer and Colonel Mike, doctor Michael Shower
New York Times Bestselling Health there's stillthese books are still selling. They're hotter
than ever. I guess because there'snothing going on in the Middle East,
no more things going everything's safe downin the Middle East. I think we
spent all our money in Israel andUkraine. So maybe his books will cool
(01:18):
down a while. And I haveno idea. Don't forget to go to
two Bikes tw Mike's dot us twoMikes dot Us. I guess who's on
today with us. He hasn't beenon for a long time and he's back.
I guess it was, you know, the holidays, Memorial Day weekend,
and then the graduations, and thenwe have fourth of July. Well,
now here comes the reality show withour friend Gordon Oliver, and it's
(01:42):
right after fourth of July, sothe fireworks are over, and I'm gonna
ask them an opening question, whichis what's worse the economy, the credit
or the hurricane that happened in Houstonthe other day. Yeah, hi,
guys, thank you for having me. Seems like I probably could be on
every day at this point with what'sgoing on in the world. Obviously,
(02:04):
our thoughts of prayers out to peopledealing with the hurricane, and that's never
a good situation because that typically comeswith some financial problems, financial angst.
And by the way, just aquick shot to the media, just like
it was with Hurricane Satabell. Theywere very quick to show the waves crashing
and the boats filed on top ofeach other while the hurricane was going down,
(02:24):
but didn't follow up with the Americanpublic to tell people it took eighteen
nineteen twenty months to get insurance companiesto turn things around as far as financial
help and financial aids. So Ihope it's not the same for the people
in Texas as they deal with whateverfinancial problems come. But in reality,
(02:45):
the economy doesn't go away like thehurricane does. Right, what's the hurricane's
gone when you start preparing to getyour life back in order. Where the
economy has slowly but surely just beenin a terrible position and the reality is
too we're still not being told thetruth on many things, and I'd love
to get into that with you gentlementoday. Please do, But first I
(03:08):
want you to tell us. Isee a banner on the screen which I've
never seen before. Tell us aboutthat you have a new podcast there.
So actually thank you for asking.We had The Cambridge Connection, which was
a podcast that we did about sixtyeight episodes. We were recording it in
a radio studio. We are bringingit in house. It's been on hiatus,
(03:30):
but as we're having this discussion,there's no better time to reinvigorate the
podcast because it really was twenty eightminutes of just focusing on things that inform
the American public on things that theyshould be thinking about while they're dealing with
the economy where everything costs more.So we brought it in house. I'm
re recording the sixty ninth episode andI'll share it with you guys, if
(03:54):
you don't mind sharing with the listeners. Oh no, no, not alone.
We're happy. Congratulations you guys aredoing it. Thank you. Always
do good work. Your organizations dogood work for a long time now.
And you know, we have peoplethat all the time ask us, well,
how how do you know these guys? Are you sure? And I'm
like, just turn on the TVin the morning, like this morning when
(04:15):
I turned it on Gordon. Theyhave this new thing now they think they're
doing us a favor on the localTV. So they do this little thing
and they go to the supermarket andthey say, looks, eggs are up
fifty nine cents from last week.And just to show you, the FDIs,
the FDA or somebody said one ofthe government organizations, Oh, it's
only going to go up thirty eightcents, but now it's fifty nine.
(04:35):
You know, they do these littletidbits. But if you add up every
day that they go on there andevery week they go on there, and
the eggs and the milk and thebutter and this, and then they said,
I forgot what the organization was,but they said, oh, well,
we're going to continue to go offuntil the end of the year,
you know, one to three percent. Well, when you look at fifty
(04:56):
nine cents on eggs in a week. That's a lot more than one to
three. Said, no, it'sa lot. And here this is the
kind of like the hurricane story thatgoes away that I try to always be
out there saying these things because thereality is, and I know people hear
it, they're going to connect withit. It's not like this goes away.
(05:17):
And here's the problem. So ifwe back up to when the economy
got opened up again in May oftwenty what was it twenty twenty one,
May of twenty twenty one, wherewe kind of got opened up again,
that was when you started to seethe decline in the economy because so many
things are catching up, things thatdon't want to be discussed, like the
Summer of Love. Destruction. Insurancefor everybody has just gone through the roof.
(05:41):
So everybody's seeing increases in homeowners insurance, auto insurance. So you get
that bill. I think mine wentup from one twenty one to one fifty
five on a monthly basis. Right. So, and it's funny too.
For context, my dad calls meFrank, like, I've been with X
insurance company for fifty years and theyjust want to increase my insurance and I'm
(06:05):
like that, I calm down.It's happening to everybody across the board.
So you bring in what you're discussingfood costs and the way they're trickling how
everything's increasing, trying not to makepeople panic. You talk about insurance.
Here's another one, gentlemen, thatno one's talking about the adjustable rate mortgages
that people get sold into when therate is reasonable. Right, all these
(06:29):
people that had four percent interest rateloans are now the adjustable rate is coming
to roost, and now they're goingto be dealing with seven percent interests,
which means their mortgage payment goes up, which means their insurance goes up,
their s world goes up, andpeople already are overextended. So getting back
to the grocery issue, what we'vebeen seeing is when people call in,
(06:49):
the first thing that we do isa budget with them, because we need
to see what's the picture, what'sthe spending, you know, what's coming
in and what's going on. That'stypical. That's what we do with every
consumer since nineteen ninety six when andit doesn't cost anything. No, the
counseling is freeze let's get let's narrowdown what the options are, because number
(07:10):
one, it prevents people from gettingscammed. Right, So when people are
desperate, they look at, youknow, things that will maybe be a
quick fix, and a lot oftimes there's no such thing. So when
we do the budget, what's happeningnow is people would be using credit cards
to shoulder the extra expense that comesfrom everything. Put guests on the credit
card, put groceries on the creditcard, put whatever you can on the
(07:32):
credit card. Holiday is spending thatwe have no money for. And then
are people paying all the money thatthey put on the card month a month.
No, they're paying what they can, which means the balance is rising.
And then when you become a riskwith credit card companies, the rates
down for high risk people are twentynine thirty thirty two percent. So you're
talking about you were in trouble atone point. When the interest goes up,
(07:53):
so does your payment. So nowyou've got mortgage payments going up,
Rent's going up, the cost ofeverything is going up. And this is
why it's surprises me a bit thatthat we're still not messaging people properly about
where we're really at. But That'swhy the last time I talked to you
guys, I know I've said ita million times. If there's any time
to create a budget, bat downthe hatches, this is definitely it.
(08:16):
Michael. Yeah, it's it's reallya difficult situation to see, you know,
just the impression you get when you'rewalking through the supermarket. We have
a Kroger's here, and I thinkthey do a pretty good job with not
increasing too much. But they justcan't not increase prices because they're they're producing,
they're distributors have higher prices. Butto see older people, and I'm
(08:41):
older people, and I get Iguess I can't get used to it.
But when you see old people goingthrough the the store, you know,
and they're picking one thing and puttingit back and looking for another one,
and you know they're looking for somethingcheaper, it's a it's a terrible thing.
It's it's uh, you know,we thought we finished this in the
thirties, and now they're deliberately doingthis to us again. You know,
(09:05):
you guys do it such a greatjob. Can they possibly do? You
think? This one sticks in mymind and I always ask you about it.
Do you think that they're going totry another effort to give away people's
money to these students who borrowed it. Expect so excellent question. So just
(09:30):
for context, right, I hada post that I put on and you
guys, please just make sure you'resitting. One of the customers that we
were counseling got nine hundred and fortythousand dollars in federal student loans forgiven.
And when I posted it, Igot immediately feedback from somebody saying, well,
(09:50):
this is falling on the tax payer. And the reason that that kind
of approach comes from someone that doesn'tlike that idea, which I get.
The public's are loan forgiveness program wasdeveloped in two thousand and seven during the
Bush administration. And then the realsimple facts are from in two thousand and
seven of October. If you werea public servant, you needed to work
(10:11):
for an eligible employer, which isgovernment, city, state, municipality five
o' one c three, some tribalorganizations. You need to make it one
hundred and twenty payments on an approvedeligible repayment program to the Department of Education,
and you had to have direct loans. So in twenty seventeen, effectively
gentlemen, there were hundreds of thousandsof people that should get their loans forgiven
(10:35):
that were in public service for thoseten years, but the program was broken.
People didn't know they needed certain loantypes that they could have fixed.
They didn't know that they needed acertain repayment program, and would find out
that they didn't have one payment towardsthe one hundred and twenty they needed to
get the loans forgiven. So wait, wait, stop right their second they
found out not one payment. Yeah, because the things I laid out,
(10:56):
you have to be on an appropriaterepayment program. The consumer, the public
servant didn't know that because the Departmentof Education did a terrible job communicating Wow,
so people just thought if I'm apublic service in ten years a servant,
I'm in ten years, I'm goingto get my loans forgiven. And
when we were counseling people, we'dhave to give them this really bad news,
like you don't have one eligible paymenttowards one hundred and twenty and they've
(11:18):
been paying for ten years or so. Fast forward after COVID, they put
a retroactive program in place so thatif you paid one hundred and twenty payments,
if you were on the wronger paymentprogram, they would fix it and
give you the retroactive credit. Ifyou had the wrong loan type, you
could consolidate it into a direct loanand they would give you retroactive credit.
So a lot of these people werestill confused when we counseled them. We
(11:39):
were explaining these programs that would helpthem actually get the loans forgiven because they
were supposed to as a public servant. So when this news comes out,
when we report something like that,it immediately gets confused with what the Biden
administration is trying to do, whichis just give money away, and that's
continuously gotten blocked. So that's theextra handouts haven't been approved. What they're
(12:03):
trying to do is utilize people thatwere misled by colleges to get their loans
forgiven now and that always going throughthe court systems. Who knows when that
will come to fruition. But alsothe repayment Programs to save program, the
new one that they put out therefor undergraduate lenders undergraduate students in July this
month, they were supposed to beable to have a reduction in the calculation
(12:26):
of what their pay would be.But there's been some court activity there too,
and some of that's gotten blocked.So it really is a legal battle,
and it is the balance between whattruly was in place from Congress since
two thousand and seven. For publicservants and for the regular person, they're
supposed to take a twenty to twentyfive year path. If they have loan
balances left, they'll get forgiven becausethe forgiveness for people that work for for
(12:52):
profit companies like a home depot,for example, they don't have public service
eligibility, so they'd have to goto twenty or the twenty five years,
and then if something was available balancewise, then that we get forgiven.
But who rolls up nine hundred dollars, that's a great question, colonel.
It is that much money. Okay, I I could talk to you guys
(13:13):
for hours, and I'll try notto like, oh, just give us
the simplifying. I want my headto blow off, so let me just
take a deep breath. So thereality is that I'll give you a perfect
example. I've got a relative thathas got her degree undergrad for psychology,
(13:35):
and in order for her to getahead, she has to take a graduate
program that's going to cost one hundredand sixty thousand dollars and it doesn't really
matter where she goes. The trueproblem here, gentlemen, is, and
nobody's talking about it enough, isthe cost to go to college and the
amount of money that's being charged backedby the government, because you get these
(13:56):
direct loans, the graduate undergraduate loans, and the only real credit check that
comes with those are the graduate andor actually just the parent plus loans.
So when parents are actually funding theeducation, they actually have to have decent
credit. They could have. Itdoesn't have to be perfect because they just
have to have they have to avoidhaving like things and collections or wage garnishments
(14:18):
and whatnot. So the interest rateson those loans, guys, is like
between eight and twelve percent, notgreat. And the government is lending the
money, which is tax payer money. Right, So if nobody wants to
curb these colleges, these universities thathave ridiculous endowments and have ridiculous amounts of
money in their coffers, and ifnobody goes after what it costs to go
(14:43):
to college, that the problem willnever change. It's never gonna it's gonna
only get worse. Actually, Soit's actually also the tenured guys, my
tenured professors. You know, theydon't take a discount. It's all those
things, colonel, but it's it'sthe fact that the government ever got involved
in this in the beginning. Never, And if there wasn't the loans,
(15:03):
the price of going to school wouldn'tbe so high because the classrooms would be
empty. And getting back to yourquestion, just think about the open checkbook.
If you go, if you doyour undergrad degree and that costs eighty
grand, then you do your masters, which is one hundred and sixty thousand,
so that's two forty. Then youdecide you want to get another master's
(15:24):
in another realm, sign up atstudent a dot gov, get loans.
Then you talk at another one hundredand sixty maybe that's now four hundred thousand.
Now you want to get educated insomething else. That's how that kind
of thing can happen. Oh mygosh. Yeah, Well, where is
the where is the common sense inall of this? Well, that's a
great question for sometimes when we're counselingpeople and they have ideas like well,
(15:48):
I think I'm going to go backto school, then we have to try
to very kindly say, Okay,what's that going to cost and what is
that going to do for your incomeonce you add that degree to actually pay
that hundred sixty thousand dollars back.Yeah, Like that's the kind of conversation
we have to have because it sometimespeople are lost, Like now we're in
this after COVID, everybody's like rethinkingtheir life. Right, It's like land
(16:11):
is so people want to now,Oh, I'm gonna go I don't want
to do this anymore because that's notby truth. I want to, you
know, go do this, andnow I have to go to school for
that. That's another one hundred andsixty thousand. It just you know,
at some point that has to becurtailed. And you know it just you're
in trouble. Man. I'm nota doomsday guy, and I'm all about
(16:33):
let's take what we got today anddeal with it. No reality is reality,
and you know, be a realist. Hey, let me ask you
a question about Sally May. Isthat part of our government or is that
just one of these like Fanny Maykind of names. Sally May usually now
is private loans. They're not they'renot direct loans with Sally May. They're
typically private funding. They have abeautiful, big, big, big,
(16:57):
huge building near adult Sandport in Virginia, So I figured they must be making
as the money. Yeah, they'vebeen around for a while, attached to
the government. So what the oldloans used to be before two thousand,
Actually they back up real quick.Nineteen ninety two Congress passed the direct loan
program, but it didn't really takesteam until the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program
(17:22):
came to be developed. And thenbecause you had to have direct loans,
the older loans were called family FederalEducation loans, which was private banks lending
the money to students, and thisis from the fifties all the way to
twenty ten. The program got endedin twenty ten, but it was private
banks that would lend the money insteadof the government, but the government would
(17:44):
guarantee the funds if the consumer didn'tpay. So Sally May has been part
of that for a real long time. They've been around since the seventies,
engaged in the student loan space withthe government. Do they still have those
loans for students with the names?Remember they used to have loans Gordon Mike
years ago. You could get aloan and it had somebody's name attached to
(18:06):
it. I guess it was acongress. Well, William d Ford.
This is why it's so convoluted whenyou look at what we do our webinars,
we explained like we talked to allof these things like the William d
Ford program, but really you justneed to know is it a direct loan
or is it not a direct loan? And then they get confused with what
subsidized is which first subsidized. Sothe difference between those two is while you're
(18:32):
in school. Unsubsidized loans interest tocruise, So people are in debt borrowing
and interest is piling on while they'renot making payments. And subsidized is typically
for lower income people where the governmentcovers the interests while they're in school on
their loans. You know what,you know, it would be a nice
curriculum, Mike and Gordon somebody tohave, like a financial curriculum telling them
(18:56):
just a whole business curriculum about howto stay away from certain loans while you
going to school, because you're goingto have credit problems no matter, because
they're going to spend money anyway oncredit cards between the gas, the car,
the food, the apartment. Right, So they're going to be.
I mean, they're in debt bigtime before they even see daylight. Let
me give you a great example,just as a perfect accompaniment to that comment,
(19:21):
when we go to college universities anddo a student loan webinar, seminar,
etc. And we do a brushoverof debt management. Because you have
people that are just coming out ofhigh school going to school, and you've
got people in their twenties and thirtiesand graduate programs. We are standing room
only, and at the end ofthe webinar, we've got to line out
the door of people that want totalk about what do I do with my
(19:41):
loans? Is interest accruing? I'musing my credit cards to get by?
What do I do about that?So all of that is so true while
people are in college. Either theyignore it or they're heads in the sand,
or they're a young high school studentand no one's taught them anything.
They don't even know what it feelslike, what they're going to pay when
they get out of school, orthat interest is accruing if it's a unsubsidized
(20:03):
So you know, twenty years agothey worked on a program with the new
recruits going into the military right.So as soon as they you know,
one, two, three months ata boot camp, they're looking for a
brand new car, right, Sowhat do they do. They go to
the dealership and these are like,it's this is like shark beat, you
know. I mean they just seethese kids, they know they got a
(20:23):
check and they know they can't bein the car, and they put them
in a payment that's almost the completecheck for the month, you know,
and then they had a question like, go ahead. My first question to
you is did you use the sharkbait because it's shark week or that that
was a great tie. But butyou're right. So so the lender,
(20:45):
right, the bank, Yeah,at the auto place, they know they're
in the military, so they knowthat people can't go bad on the loan,
so they don't pretty much approve anythingwithin their standards. But you know,
they came out with a program likeyears later where all these recruits had
to go through something like what you'redoing and say, hey, you just
can't. They wouldn't even let themgo to a car dealership without two other
(21:07):
people to some you know, somebodyhigher up and rank and make sure that
they could afford the car and notbe buried. Because these guys were buried
for like three four years. Youknow, they couldn't have popcorn and beer
after that, and they had nomoney. If I had a drone,
I would have it fly by yournotebook right now to see if it says
I'm going to find a way tomake Gordon's head blow off on this podcast,
(21:30):
because because now you have you everdriven by a used car dealer and
it says, hey, come on, congratulations, everyone gets approved, What
does that mean? In reality?That means you're going to probably pay the
car loan right thirty percent on thecar loan, which if people have that
kind of credit, they shouldn't beborrowing to get themselves in further trouble.
(21:51):
And it's the same thing with paydayloans. People once they get to that
status, they're in big trouble andthey're never going to turn it around.
This They pretty much typically fall downnext thing, you know, they can't
make the payments, cars getting reboiled, they still owe the balance. It's
just a path to nowhere. Butthis is our this is our world,
right, This is the corporate sideof things that is a dark side that
just doesn't really care about the wellbeing of people. They'll just make money,
(22:15):
sell things and who cares, rightAnd the other thing about the car
loans with thirty percent, a lotof those cars are not even in good
shape. Let's face it, they'regoing to pay you one thousand dollars in
the next three months doing minor repairs, you know now they have no money.
Yes, they probably have a clockin the in the car dealers where
they're counting down the thirty days thatthe client can turn the car back in
(22:38):
because it's piece of garbage. Soyes, it's a dirty business for sure,
there's no question about it. Terriblegosh, it must be the morning
for heads exploding. When you wentdown your list about these this city,
municipalities, state, federal, yousaid, five oh one C three's right,
yep. You know, we've learnedover the past three and a half
(23:02):
four years now that five O oneC threes are a key element of flooding.
This country's with illegals and violent illegalsand criminal legals. Why in the
world are they being treated as civilservants. I don't have any idea and
full disclosure, Cambridge Better Counseling isa five O one C three nonprofit who's
(23:25):
not engaged in that we are actuallyhelping people with that problems. But no,
I wasn't accusing you of anything.No, I no, I think
Mike's speaking about Mike speaking about thefive oh one seed. Mike, you
got to be specific in this fiveoh one C threes that are doing humanitarian
work NGO work on the Yes.And I really I was just kind of
(23:47):
being I didn't know. I hadno idea five O one C three's were
capable to get these loans either.Yeah, And it's the employee e right,
So it's the it's the employees.So if you are an employee of
that organization with the work you do, and you work a minimum of thirty
hours, then it would be tenyears, one hundred and twenty payments.
And I'm not sure why the fiveoh one C three falls into the category.
(24:11):
This is again the government's way ofthe creation of this program of who's
eligible. End there are some CEsixes and other nonprofits that are ineligible depending
on the corporate status that they have. So that's one of the things.
Big book. You guys have abig book to go through just to deal
with one person, you know,depending on where they're coming from. Yeah,
(24:36):
we figured out how to narrow itdown. But the way the process
works, which kind of takes ourhands out of it a little bit,
is the employer. So let's sayyou work for Cambridge Credit Counsel MIGHT and
you've been there for ten years,you have direct loans, you've been on
the right repayment program. You fillout the top section which is demographic information,
social Security number, and the secondpage to get the loans forgiven or
(24:59):
to f fgure out how many eligiblepayments you have is filled out by the
HR director or the superintendent of schools. For educators, they have to qualify
that they're an eligible employer with theirthe I, D, E, I
N. And then they have toqualify the amount of time the employees worked
how many hours per week. Soit's a form that actually has to be
(25:22):
filled out by the employer, andif they're not an eligible entity based on
the parameters, then they just don'tThey can't fill the format because they're not
eligible. Well, Gordon, it'sclear that that you know people will work
for you ought to get some kindof a reward for helping people who are
really sinking. The point I wasthere was kind of forming slowly in my
(25:44):
mind was, does anybody ever patrolor examine in the government. Is there
is there a like a I don'tknow what, what do you call them?
The bludsmur, the head attorney thatit looks to make sure these people
are doing what they say they're doing. Have a one C three Now,
(26:06):
it seems to me Lutheran services,Catholic charities, there should be none of
that since they're head start of thecountry. Yeah, their corporations typically are
not eligible because of the of theof the C type. And to your
point, and let me just saythis, guys, I for the public
servant side, this comes back tothe core issue on how the country is
(26:29):
being divided right now. All ofthese headlines about the student loans and their
forgiveness and the Biden administration, whatthey're trying to do. A lot of
the stuff is victory laps for themthat was already kind of in place,
but they're just the government is structurallyworking on trying to fix it. At
the end of the day, ifyou're a firefighter and you went to school
and you're a public servant, itcomes back to the reality that the plans
(26:55):
that they give you to pay thatare eligible are income driven, which means
if you you're a low income individualwith a family of flour, you could
actually pay nothing per month for onehundred and twenty payments, which means that
loan's growing, which means interest isaccruing. And then after the ten years
you get the loans forgiven. Itall comes back to how much did this
firefighter have to borrow? How muchdoes a teacher have to borrow to get
(27:19):
their masters and then in ten yearsget their loans forgiven. So it wouldn't
be so bad for the taxpayer ifwe found a way to curb what the
cost is, which isn't really beingthere's no oversight on that. Now,
getting back to your actual question,the question in my mind is, I
don't know if they're rubber stamping theseapplications. I don't know people are getting
(27:41):
their loans forgiven left and right nowbecause of the fix. But that fix
is now coming to an end accordingto the Department of Education, And I
just don't know if somebody to yourquestion, if this is on the audit
side, right, are they justrubber stamping these apps or are they actually
qualified people? And the ones we'reseeing, I don't see too many that
(28:04):
I'm like, how did that happen? And I talked to our student loan
council manager all the time, andmost of the people that are getting them
forgiven that we're helping are deserve it, right, They've paid the time,
they just didn't know they needed acertain thing. But a lot of our
clients too, are you know,teachers' unions, public service agencies, so
(28:25):
a lot of them are already onestep eligible from who they work for,
who they have worked for the lastten years. Well, you know,
I just Steve and I both comefrom blue collar families, and it's a
it's really offensive to me to beforgiving money that was was borrowed deliberately,
(28:49):
knowingly. But at the same time, the people who borrowed the money are
being extorted by the universities. Agreed, It's like an in the House theft
governship. Mike is just one moreentitlement in the bag of entitlements by being
in Congress to stay in Congress toget re elected, just like Joe Biden's
(29:14):
using it as a weapon to getreelected. I can forgive loans. I
mean, yeah, you know,I understand the blue collar thing, you
know, but you know what we'reso far down the road. You know,
the bottom line is how do youhelp people with bed credit because of
what this country did to them,whether it's in student loans, auto loans.
You know, look at the lookat seven percent interest rates for mortgages.
(29:36):
You know where we had Gordon onyears ago. You know, we
didn't even talk about seven percent onmortgages that were in the rocket economy,
you know, and we were justtrying to get people back on track.
So, you know, we're sofar down the road. Let's put it
that way. Just we have totry to fix whatever we can. Yeah,
they're taking it, look it withblue collar Mike, but look what's
(29:57):
coming. You know it has notdo it. You know, having a
conversation well with Gordon at this point, but you know, reality is,
Gordon, they're letting people in overthe border day one. They get Social
Security, Medicare, housing and everything, and that's our money. But you
know it's not just the Republican orjust the Democratic Party, it's both parties.
And why are they're allowing us Ifwe had the answer, that's the
(30:19):
sixty four thousand dollars one? Okay, yeah, why would you allow it?
You know? But right now tothe listeners on the two mics.
If you got any problems, here'sour friend. He's been with us for
a long time. You can goto the website two Mikes dot Us click
the thing. It's just a matterof doing the budget with him. And
I know you're hurting. There's peoplethat listen to the show that are not,
(30:40):
you know, healed. Let's putit this way. A lot of
people that listen to this show arepretty much middle class. Would you say
so, Mike? I think so, yeah, because we piss off the
rich people. I was just gonnasay, guys, I know, I
put my opinion out there, andI have another one real quick. If
I need help finding a job,I'll reach out to you. Guys.
(31:00):
Maybe you can send my name around. But the reality is is what's going
on with the border and whatnot.I think it's just like the people forget
that going to college. That allegiatebusiness is a machine. It is just
look at the sports. It's amoney machine. Yes, you have to
look at the legal system of allof this. Who's making these things happen?
(31:25):
And again, the problem that wehave as a citizen is we're so
busy doing everything to survive that noone has the time, and that's where
they want us. That's where theywant us. Gordon. I completely agree,
Mike completely. They want us busy. And the other thing is when
you speak to these people who youcounsel and you have to say to them,
well, do you think you wantto disconnect the cable of Netflix or
(31:48):
Sports? I can imagine they're crying, no, not Sports, No,
not Netflix, please please, I'lltake away the Starbucks, but Netflix,
because we're just we're just that's Americanpeople today. You know the sort.
Yeah, you can get the socialmedia. There's been proof that it's it's
there's an addiction to your phone.There's an addiction to and that's why people.
(32:10):
Are they going to not get thenext new iPhone? No, they're
going to They're gonna do it.They're not gonna stop living. Restaurants have
increased their prices three, four orfive times because of the increase in costs,
and people aren't stopping going to therestaurant. No, they're not.
You noticed that nobody's stopped it.How about this summer have you been out
have you walked around and watched therestaurants with the tents and everything going on.
(32:31):
I haven't. Yeah, and thepends is, I can't believe the
price of burgers. I can't believethe price of food outside. It's just
when I go out to eat oncein a while with my family, Okay,
I look at them and I'm like, really, we're gonna go eatier.
You got to be kidding me.You know, you got to be
kidding me, Like, I can't. I can't pass. It doesn't.
(32:53):
It doesn't go through my mind morethan four bucks for a burger. Okay,
it just doesn't go through my mindmind you nand And I understand.
I understand the cost. I understandwhat's going on. But you know,
I just stay away from restaurants asmuch as I can. I just think
it's just it's just way too much, you know. Now with the phone,
(33:14):
with the phones, I got tobe honest with my partner here,
doctor Mike. No problem with him. Actually he looks for his phone every
day. He doesn't even want totalk to it. Okay, Look,
I appreciate you guys having me on. And these are the kind of hard
conversations that we have to have.And at the end of it all,
(33:36):
you know, you guys are conservativesand and I look at the one principle
and conservatives and being fiscally responsible.We know our government's not, but in
your household you can be. Youjust have to make the leap to start
making some changes. And the questioncan be about do we have to have
the hard conversations with people about cancelingthings? Yes, we do, and
(33:59):
we do have of them. Andyou know it's a dialogue, right what
can we give up? What canwe stop doing? Can we can we
can entertainment take ahead for six monthsto use that money elsewhere. That's the
kind of stuff well we have totalk to people about and whether they do
it or not, you know isit's hard sometimes to make changes. But
(34:19):
if you try to survive and youwant to keep the roof over your head,
sometimes you got to really really tightenthings up. And that's the kind
of that's why the counsel is freethat we just go through this exercise of
people see what the alternatives are oncewe tighten things up. Thank you,
sir, go ahead, Mike.Can I have just one more question?
I'm sorry to keep you. Doyou ever talk to young married couples about
(34:39):
how to anticipate educational things? Andyou know that they have to be active
in telling their children they can theycan tour whatever school they want, but
to where they can go and wherethey can't go. It seems to me
that people I meet much younger thanmyselves and their families, that parents are
(35:04):
more pales than parents at the moment. And yeah, but the problem is
the institutions, the people that theysee every day in the hallway at school.
You know, they're promoting the collegeway, right they Oh, sure,
but I mean that I should havean If your kid decides to sign
up for school that costs seventy twogrand a year, you got to have
(35:29):
the gumption to say, you know, no, I got other children that
are going to go to school.We want to have a better house.
At some point, you're going tohave to find another choice or I'll find
one for you. Yeah, andthat debate at that point, you're talking
to a very inexperienced individual at theage of seventeen or eighteen. Yes,
And the tangible, uh, thetangibility of knowing how to pay bills of
(35:52):
what that really costs isn't typically developed. And they have great programs for financial
literacy pay through twelve, like Junioror Chief even but until it's tangible,
until it's real world, until youunderstand if somebody doesn't tell you, okay,
you're gonna borrow one hundred and sixtythousand, what's this average salary of
the type of work that you're goingto do. And then by the way,
(36:15):
you're gonna have rent or mortgage,and you shouldn't be spending more than
twenty five to twenty eight percent ofyour pay on that. Then you're gonna
have an auto loaded auto insurance becauseyou have to get to work or transit
whatever you want to call it.Then you have to eat, Then you
have to pay for essentials. Sonow that costs this and you have to
make this much money, and you'regonna need to make this payment for ten,
(36:38):
fifteen, twenty years, which isgonna cost you this much an interest.
That's the conversations that you know aren'tbeing had, aren't being had absolutely,
And you know, unfortunately parents areunder pressure at that point where the
the you know, the heartstrings totheir kids. They think they want them
to be success. Now they'll takea they'll take the hit for it.
(36:58):
But then once that ugly bill comesaround, man, and then you see
your kids that what happens if aparent loses a job. They don't even
think about these things, you knowwhat I mean, Or guys, you
know, simply die. What areyou gonna do? It's no what's funny
about that question is what happens thereis there's an alternative. You can call
the student loan UH servicer for federalloans and say I lost my job,
(37:21):
I need to go on an incomedriven plan. But the problem is on
income driven plans, the interest tocruiz right. Unless you can get a
deferment like a hardship deferment, thenthe interested cruise. So the problems getting
worse essentially, and then when peopleknow they can do it for twelve months
and it's a relief, they're like, oh yeah, I'll do this for
twelve months, and they go outand spend money anyway exactly, and then
(37:42):
the balance is higher, and thenwe got to deal with it. All
right. Well, let's wrap itup. Thank you, Gordon Oliver.
We haven't heard from you in awhile, and keep in touch. Please,
you can come on as much asyou want. You know that I'm
happy. Let's I'll email you atthe end of the program and let's put
a little you have such a calendar. I love it. I gotta I
gotta pop around, find the hourbefore you go for what's the name of
(38:06):
the new podcast. They're on thescreen like you can't see it. The
the Cambridge Connection, the Cambridge Connection. I just want the notes I get
it's on the screen. Okay,I'll send send the next new episode to
you, guys. What'ce it's complete? Great? All right, thank you,
hey, stay cool, Bye bye, Thanks Gordon, Thanks guys.
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