July 12, 2025 • 28 mins
In this introductory episode, Richard Turrell, one half of the Unlikely Christians duo, tells his story of trauma and addiction, and how Jesus showed up just in time.
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(00:23):
And welcome to everybody who'shaving or have had a great day,
and those of you who are hangingin there, and those of you who
are just thinking, oh Lord, Idon't know if I can continue to
do this.
I'm comedian and author, patMcCool on the shores of Lake
Deep in the Piney Woods ofSouthern Mississippi, and now.
(00:45):
My co-host from across theAtlantic in London, England.
My brother from the mothercountry esteemed psychotherapist
and addiction specialist,Richard Turrell.
Rich, what's up?
Yes, pat.
Nice to be here man.
Nice to see you.
Um, yes, I'm coming from Oxfordin the uk.
(01:07):
Uh, so about 30 miles outsideLondon.
Got a big university here, verygreen leafy rolling hills.
Yeah, that's what's up man.
Nice to be here.
Nice to see you again, pat.
That, that's so much better.
I like it when you're fromOxford, because when we met and
I ended up with a friend fromLondon, as I told you my
international sophistication,uh, level rose.
(01:29):
But when you moved to Oxford,that kicked it into another
notch.
I mean, look, honestly, like, itfelt like a supreme act of
service.
It felt like, it felt like anarea that you needed support in
part, I needed to be pulled up.
Just a little bit, you know,when I, when we combine all of
your degrees and my GEDI feltlike between the two of us we're
(01:51):
pretty well, uh, pretty wellrounded and we're both in
interesting places.
You're from, I guess how far is,Cambridge Oxford University from
you?
About three miles.
Um, this isn't, I actually grewup in a little town, uh, outside
of London, the other about 35miles to the east called South
End on Sea, which is a smallseaside town.
(02:16):
Um, so that's where I kind ofmisspent a large chunk of my
youth.
And then I, I came up here, Iwas in Oxford for five years and
misspent the last of it herereally.
Um, so I've, yeah, I've dottedabout a bit.
I'm a bit of a nomad pat.
Nomad within my own country.
Well, I'm a bit of a nomad.
I left these woods and went toNew York for six or seven years.
(02:38):
And then move back and so we'reboth near fairly interesting
locations because you, you'rethree miles, from one of, if not
the premier institution, uh,academic institution in the
world.
And I am a 3.1 miles from anuclear test site where the US
Army blew off a nuclear weapon.
(03:00):
In a tall salt dome in themiddle of these pine woods, I'm
not kidding you, you can Googlesalmon, salmon test site.
So I haven't seen any three,little three-legged frogs
crawling around the lake.
But, uh, but we are, you know,we got a little testy back in
the fifties.
We did, you know, we didn't wantthe, we didn't want the Soviet
showing up on the Jersey shore,so we started blowing up a few
(03:23):
things that maybe we couldpersuade'em otherwise, but
literally they blew up twonuclear bombs three miles down
the road.
So, so as you can see, thesimilarities between us are
spooky there.
Yeah, absolutely.
What there, you notice I calledyou Rich.
My wife asked you do you go byRich?
Do you guys like shorten namesin, yeah.
Nicknames.
Rich Is Rich is my favorite.
(03:43):
I prefer to be called Rich.
Yeah, Richard.
Oh, rich is good.
Yeah.
Richard's quite, quite formal.
So I'm not that, I'm not thatformal.
Pat.
I know that's actuallydevastating to you.
'cause I'd imagine in your mindI walk around in like a bowl of
hat twirling a cane.
Doing all that good Englishstuff, but actually, I'm,
that's, that, yeah.
Drinking tea.
Drinking tea.
Drinking tea.
(04:04):
I don't, I don't actually liketea.
You don't?
Is it, is that still the, stilla British thing?
The tea.
The tea and I noticed you'redoing it Pinky.
You know I this like, it's kindof aristocratic you lift the
pinky up.
But yeah, I mean, I can do, butI like, if it makes you happy,
you know I can do that for We'regood man.
(04:25):
You're making me, uh, you know,if I'm gonna get my
sophistication level up, I justwant, I just wanna meet you
there.
You know what I mean?
So yeah, my wife said, youcalling him Rich?
Does he go by Rich?
Because, over here, we shortenevery name, you know, like Yeah,
no, similar.
Similar, yeah.
You know, go ahead.
Are you Patrick McCallOfficially, and when I was in
(04:46):
trouble, which was quite often,as you know, as a child, it was
Patrick, but it's Pat.
And, uh, which, you know,wasn't, was kind of tough in
school because Pat can go eitherway.
And I asked my mother why I wasnamed, a girl's name and she
said, well, Patrick is anhonorable name in Ireland.
And I said, well, yeah, it's asissy name here in Mississippi
(05:09):
and it's, and it's causing me alot of fights.
But yeah, I just didn't know ifwe abbreviated, so we're, we're
cool with Rich'cause like if wehad a monarchy, we would have
king chuck.
Maybe King Chucky.
You know, we, we, we'd havePrince, prince William would be
Prince Billy.
If it was Texas it'd be likePrince Billy Wayne.
So yeah, that kinda stuff wouldprobably get you, uh, hung for
(05:34):
treason over here.
Alright, well we're not here forgetting hung for treason.
Well.
It's good to see you, rich.
And, for those of you that arejoining us for the first time,
which is virtually everybody,because this is the first time
we've done the podcast, uh,Richard and I met and we have a
passion for, Helping othersexperience the same joy and the
(05:57):
happiness, and peace that wefound through Christ.
And, we decided we wanted to tryto get together and, see if we
could help people experience thesame thing that we experienced.
So, for our first episode, wewanted to kind of give you a
background on how we both got tothis.
Part and in, true southernhospitality fashion.
We're gonna let Richard gofirst.
(06:17):
And Richard, if you'd just liketo give us your story, how, you
came through the strugglesyou've had in life and got to
this point.
Yeah.
Lovely.
Thanks Pat.
And I just wanna really echowhat you've said there.
You United Mission here is to.
Just kind of carry that messagereally about what Christ has
done in, in my life, in yourlife, in our lives, the
transformation that we'veexperienced.
(06:38):
You know, I've got a lot fromreading your book, pat.
Bonzo wasn't that big of a hillwoman's walk towards God.
Um, you know, our experienceswere very similar in that
regard.
So, yeah, my story, as I say, itbegan, in 1980 in a small
seaside town in England, calledSouth England Sea.
(06:58):
Ironically, it's not actually onthe sea, it's actually located
on the banks of a big estuary.
You know, the River Thames whereit starts to come out towards
the North Sea.
So it should, it would moreaccurately be called South End
on mud.
Um, and you know this is thenortheastern part of England,
Southeastern.
Southeast Southeastern.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So if I was Northeastern, itwould be the Northeastern and
(07:21):
the Southeast are very differentplaces.
Yeah.
I've done research, sorry, Ivery different cultures, but,
um.
Yeah, so I grew up there.
I mean, look, I came into quitea middle class background.
Um, you know, my dad was alawyer, and he went on to become
a judge.
My mom was a doctor, you know,like, uh, what would you guys
call it?
Um, family doctor.
(07:42):
Like family medicine, you know.
So general would be a generalpractitioner.
Yes, that's exactly what she wascalled over here.
Yeah.
A gp.
So, you know, on the face of it,like a nice kind of middle class
house.
Yeah.
Five bedroom house, two kids,mom, dad together, you know, two
nice cars on the drive, acleaner, a nanny,'cause mom and
(08:03):
dad were both busy with theircareers, you know, sort of like
private schools, you know,initially.
Right.
So all very, not all looked verynice and whilst.
I have a huge amount of, um,like admiration and respect for,
for my parents.
You know, like they've both beenfor a lot, you know, they both
(08:24):
come from difficult backgrounds,from like emotionally, um,
absent, at the very least, um,backgrounds and they didn't know
too much about how to bring kidsup.
And on top of that, my mom was,my mom was an alcoholic.
Yeah.
So she.
She had a, you know, a veryserious, um, ongoing problem
(08:46):
with alcohol and laterprescription drugs.
You know, obviously I knowthat's, you know, a huge problem
that you guys have over there aswell.
It's like a, definitely a, agrowing, getting worse and
worse.
Yeah.
And same over here, actually.
Same over here, getting worseand worse.
And particularly the sort ofyounger generation, that's
increasingly something that theyturn to.
Um, so yeah, I mean, it, it was.
(09:10):
There was violence in the housegrowing up.
Dad was scary.
Mum was kind of checked out alot of the time.
Mm.
Um, and my brother and I.
Was this towards you or betweenthe parents?
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No violence towards, you know,towards myself.
I think my brother got a littleless it.
My dad was a bit softer with himfrom, from a little bit what I
(09:31):
can remember, but also what I'veheard, you know, from, from
relatives and stuff.
My dad was a bit softer towardsmy brother.
Um.
By no means, like Easy Mum waspretty volatile, you know?
God bless her, you know, andthey both passed away, so, and
you know, and I know that my mumcame to Christ maybe about 20
years before she passed, and mydad fantastic.
(09:54):
Yeah, my dad did as well towardsthe end.
Although he never told, he nevertold us, right.
We never knew.
We never knew until he was inthe hospital in his days.
He was in the hospital in thelast week of his life, which was
pretty brutal.
Um, you know, the way he diedwas very tragic and very brutal.
Um, and, uh, and a priest turnedup and, uh, and it was, it was
(10:15):
the priest from the local churchand had come to, had come to see
him.
And, and you know, we found outthat he had, you know, had
become quite a big part of thatlike community and had had come
to faith.
Right.
So.
So that was, so they've bothpassed on in about the last five
years, but setting, if youmight, so he didn't share that
with you?
No, and that's a funny, go onPat.
(10:36):
Sorry.
You go ahead.
No, you go ahead.
Well, that's the funny thingabout the story is that my mom
came to faith and, um, therewere Christians in and around
our house a lot.
Um, and no one ever spoke to mybrother or I, and we were like,
well off the rails.
By this point you have thatexpression, like gone off the
rails.
Yeah, I lived off the rails, youknow.
We'll, we'll get you in the nextI was the one that bent the
(10:59):
rails.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The rails.
The rails were well in the rear.
The, were you, uh, had you andyour brother left home by the
time they came to Jesus, or, I'mtrying to remember the dates.
I might have got it a little bitwrong, but, but I, I mean, well,
you're still, you weren't kids.
We, we were in our teens, somaybe it's about 30.
(11:20):
Yeah.
Let's, so you're out doing yourthings.
So they're not really expressingthis with you.
They're not sharing it withyour, you find this out later?
Oh, much later.
Much, much later.
So much.
Wow.
I mean, so our upbringing wasone, you know, there was a lot
of dysfunction.
Basically it turned out Dad hadbeen having like this long
running affair.
We found out after he died, youknow, there was another house,
(11:42):
another woman, another child,you know, all this, you know,
big secret.
So we grew up in this soup ofdysfunction, pat, this so of
kind of lies violence andaddiction.
Right?
A lot of anger, a lot ofunspoken feelings floating
around the house.
Like until I was well into mythirties, I wouldn't have known
an emotion if it walked up to meand punched me in the face.
(12:03):
You know, very much learned,like moved like to live
upstairs, you know, live in myhead,'cause that was the sort of
safe, safest place to be awayfrom it.
And um, and then by the time Iwas 12, very, very uncomfortable
in my own skin.
You know, by the time you were12.
Yeah.
Very, very uncomfortable.
Uncomfortable in my own skin.
(12:23):
Anxious kid.
Didn't really fit in differentfrom the other kids at school.
Quite a bit of bullying.
Very overweight.
A bit odd.
And you know, it was like theeighties going into the very
early nineties.
Like kids were, kids wereparticularly cruel.
Right.
You know, they still are.
Definitely can be.
It shifted a bit over here.
(12:44):
Um, but yeah, like it wasn'tgreat basically.
And then I was 13, I found, Ifound hashish, you know, I found
cannabis, right?
And um, I remember smoking myfirst joint and just thinking,
this is how I want to feel, youknow?
I don't wanna feel that otherway, you know, I don't wanna
feel like this is how I wannafeel, you know?
(13:04):
I felt like.
I felt happy.
I felt free.
You know, I felt that, like thatease and that sense of ease and
comfort.
Right?
And so that was my, you know, inthe 12 step fellowships, we talk
about powerlessness, right?
So my first experience ofpowerlessness was, it wasn't
the, you know, I smoked a jointon day one.
And then on day two I startedstealing for it.
(13:24):
But what it was, it was likewhen day two came, I realized I
had an option.
I had an option.
I can either feel anxious,uncomfortable, full of
self-loathing and fear.
I can feel happy, free, relaxed,you know, like in the moment.
And so like my mission afterthat point, pat, was to feel
like that as much as possible.
And that was a, you know, thatwas a mission that I, I ran with
(13:47):
man.
Like I ran with, been there anddone that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I know, I know, you know,you have your, you, you know,
very similar kind of set ofexperiences and like, look, you
know, lots of people that, youknow, hopefully Will, will be
listening to this or come tolisten to this, will identify
with that experience.
Right.
And, um, you know, and it wenton like, you know, when I
became, uh, my education fizzledout, um, I, I mean, there was a
(14:14):
lot of stuff that happened, man,but by the time I was, like, by
the time I was 20 years old, Iwas addicted to crack cocaine.
By the time I was 21, I wasaddicted to Heroining.
Um.
That was like on and off, youknow, like by the time I was 25,
that was much more on than itever was off.
Right?
Um, but there was alwayssomething, whether it was booze,
(14:36):
cocaine, powder, cocaine,cannabis, ecstasy, amphetamine,
whatever.
There was always something.
Right.
There was always something.
And, um.
I sold drugs, um, you know,sometimes relatively
successfully, sometimesspectacularly, unsuccessfully.
You know, I ran, I ran aroundover a lot of money to people.
(14:57):
I got into a lot of trouble.
I was stabbed.
I got stabbed.
And, you know, I nearly died inan argument to do with drugs and
money when I was 25.
And then when I was 27, I, Ileft South end.
I left my hometown, um, under.
Something of a cloud, let's say.
Right?
Like there was a lot of peoplethat were like very unhappy with
(15:17):
me.
Um, I owed a lot of money my tocriminals, you know, my
behavior.
Uh, apart from the money, mybehavior was pretty off the
wall.
I'd upset a lot of people withmy antics.
Yeah.
Blackout drinking, causingtrouble, you know, all that sort
of stuff.
And, um.
I, I came actually up to Oxford'cause I had some family here
(15:38):
and, you know, for the freshstart, you know, and I got
clean, I did what would say overhere.
I did my rip, did my rattle.
So, I dunno what you call thatover there, but I, I withdrew, I
withdrew from everything, youknow, so I, yeah, I got clean.
And, um, how did you go fromSouth end?
What, what took you from Southend to Oxford?
(15:59):
I, I had family there, so I knewI, I would have somewhere to
stay.
And, um, I was homeless.
Um, I was like living like in acrack house.
Um, uh, you know, life.
I was at rock bottom, you know,like I was at rock bottom.
I was at this point a verysubsistence level kind of drug
user.
Right, right.
And um, so I came up to Oxford.
(16:19):
I got clean.
I had no idea what I sufferedwith.
I had no idea I had this bigspiritual, like emotional void
within me.
Um, you know, a good shapedhole.
I had no idea about any of that.
And, and then the truth is, pat,I was in so much pain that I,
you know, I used heroin againvery quickly within about five
days.
Right.
Because I just didn't know howto deal with myself, and I
(16:42):
certainly didn't know how todeal with the world.
Yeah.
Was it, was it the emotional orthe physical that got you right
back in five minutes?
Emotional, the physical.
I could deal with the physical.
It wasn't fun, but I could dealwith a physical, you know, but
it was the emotional, yeah.
You know, it was get.
Getting, getting clean and likejust this sap, I think I'm happy
here.
Over here.
I'm not, but it, it's all a lie,but keep going.
(17:05):
Yeah.
Well, it's that thing.
It's like I'm not com I'm justnot comfortable.
I'm not comfortable wherever Igo, you know?
And it, and I just couldn't,yeah.
I just couldn't deal withmyself.
Right.
So I realized very quickly thepart of Oxford I was in had a
lot of drugs in, and a lot ofdrug dealers.
Right.
And, and I, you know, I went,you know, I bought, I found a
dealer, I bought some heroin.
It was very easy.
(17:25):
And, um, called it smack overhere or brown.
These are different slang namesto, to what you guys have, I
think.
But, um, uh, and I, and I used,right, so I used the heroining
and I remember, like, I rememberthinking, you know, I knew, I
knew it wasn't a one off.
Yeah.
I knew I understood enough aboutmy experience of addiction at
this point to know that itwasn't a one off.
(17:48):
It wasn't like I was just gonnahave a night off these difficult
feelings and then got on withBuild, rebuilding my life.
I was back in.
I was back in it, you know, andthat this was, it was all gonna
happen again.
And that's what happened.
It all happened again.
Anyway, I found after aboutthree years and, you know, a
suicide attempt, some verylonely and kind of existence in
(18:11):
Oxford, some work, you know,like I wasn't, couldn't sell
drugs.
I didn't, you know, I justcouldn't, new Town, didn't know
anyone.
So I did some work.
I stole a lot from differentjobs and, and all that kind of
thing.
But you know, I did what Ineeded to do to feed my habit.
Um, and I ended up at a realemotional bomb, um, in that I
(18:33):
had somewhere to live.
I had a little bit of money, butI was just so kind of empty and
lonely, and I'm happy that I.
I sought help and I foundNarcotics Anonymous.
So I went on the, and I, I'vetried to track the date back.
I believe it was March the 16th,2010.
It was March, 2010.
I went to my first NarcoticsAnonymous meeting and, um, in,
(18:57):
you know, I didn't get itstraight away, but in July,
2012, I got clean, right.
And I, and I'm still clean now.
So next, uh.
In July this year, basically ina couple of months I'll be, I'll
be 13 years clean.
Right.
By the grace of God, right?
Yeah.
So, you know, not one drop ofalcohol, not one, you know,
total abstinence clean for, forthe best part of 13 years.
(19:19):
So, phenomenal.
Right?
Life changing.
And then I did all the things,you know, I did lots of 12 step
meetings and I explored theideas of spirituality, but I, I,
I was a bit of a like.
Spiritual tourist.
I've bounced around differentthings.
I've been to some odd places,done some odd things.
I've been, you know, kind ofBuddhist type stuff.
(19:39):
I've done a Native Americansweat lodge, right?
Like that was different.
Um, but it wasn't for me.
You know, obviously it's somepeople's belief system, but, um,
but what happened as well wasthat my addiction began to
manifest in other areas.
Um, work money.
Food and sex were like the mainculprits.
(20:03):
And I built a life, you know,externally, I had this life, you
know, I became quite successful.
You know, I had my own business.
I had a, you know, career, I hada reputation, you know, a good
reputation within the recoverycommunity.
You know, I was looked to assomeone that kind of had his,
you know, had his SHIT together,right?
And like knew what he was aboutand actually had this kinda
(20:25):
secret life where.
To manage the stuff that wasgoing on inside of me.
I was still, Floyd was stillthere.
The emptiness was still there.
Yeah, still there, man.
And acting out sexuallyovereating, you know, kind of
getting on for like an eatingdisorder.
Definitely workaholic.
Right.
And, um, I was married, um, Ilived in London.
(20:46):
I lived in a nice part ofLondon.
I had a nice car.
You know, I had some nicewatches, I had nice clothes.
You know, I had all these, youknow, all these things.
Right.
All the stuff, all the stuff ofthe world, um, you know, all
the, all the glitters, was, uh,you know, I had, I had a lot of
that stuff.
And then my, my wife discoveredthat I was a sex addict and that
(21:08):
I had been cheating on herregularly for the entire
duration of our relationship.
And at that point, and thatgives me chills, even just
saying it right, like.
I remember that day, I rememberhow devastated she was, and I
remember how, for me, the, therewas guilt, of course, for what
(21:28):
I'd done for her, which I stillcarry.
There was also just this senseof absolute shame that this part
of me that I'd kept hidden, youknow, I'd really done everything
to, to keep hidden, had beenripped out into the world, um,
into the light and was shown,and I.
(21:50):
To, to cut a long story short, Iwas admitted to a treatment
center in the US in Arizona for,for treatment, for sex
addiction.
And it was there in the desertthat, um, that I had a really
personal encounter with Christ.
You know, there was a friend ofmine there who was a pastor.
(22:12):
There was a chaplain there whowas a remarkable man.
I'd already, I'd begun to attendchurch, um, looking for answers
and had found some respite fromwhat aided me, but was still,
you know, still very much, uh,wrapped up in, in addiction, um,
(22:33):
in different forms.
And I ended up in, in the desertof Arizona and I.
I started to understand whatgrace was, and I started to
understand who Christ was, and Istarted to understand what
forgiveness meant, and, andeverything changed for me and I
(22:55):
had a very powerful experienceof feeling like I was forgiven.
And I don't, by that I don'tmean forgiven for the things
that I've done.
By my wife or, or, you know, byother people that had got hurt
by what I did.
My wife's family were very, verybadly hurt by what I did.
(23:16):
But I mean, like, on a deeperspiritual level, like I was
forgiven.
And, uh, and I remember that wasvery profound and that, that
told me, what I learned fromthat, from that experience was
how I'd, I'd, I'd never beenable to forgive myself, like
just for being alive, you know?
I carried such a deep level ofshame.
Like, even for just existing.
(23:36):
And so that was very profound.
And then, you know, I know thisis of course stuff we'll, we'll
talk about in more detail as, asthis develops, but you know, and
then I began to have anexperience where I realized how
loved I was.
You know, I just felt this lovewash over me.
Like just this, it was liketaking a shower in, in this
room.
Yeah.
That, yeah.
(23:57):
It was all that emptiness.
All that emptiness.
Yeah.
I was just.
Just filled with this sense oflove.
And I, I, I remember I was inchurch and I, I sobbed, you
know, I was sobbed, uh, youknow, and, um, I, I just
realized like I'd never, I'venever felt love like that.
I'd never known how to be lovedlike that, you know?
And, um, it's the Holy Spirit,so, yeah.
(24:19):
Yeah.
The Holy Spirit man, like, ittouched me, like it touched me
and I just felt, you know, andthere've been many other
experiences along the way that,too much to get into now, but
they, you know, that told methat I was.
I was in the right place.
You know, I was in the rightplace and I was, I was where I
needed to be.
Like, I've come home, you know,I know that's a cliche, but it's
like I've come home and, uh, andso my faith journey's continued
(24:40):
since then, you know, and, um, Ihave found such peace and grace
and direction and purpose, and.
So much through it.
And, and, and that's why, youknow, that's why I, I, you know,
like we spoke about Pat, I, Iwant other people to have the,
you know, the opportunity toexperience the same thing, you
(25:03):
know, and, um.
I'm not like you and me, pat,we're not theologians.
You know, and we're, we'recertainly not classic
churchgoers.
Right?
We are not.
That's why we are the twounlikely Christians.
Two unlikely Christians man.
But yeah, that in a nutshell,that's, that's my story, man.
Well, that's a beautiful story.
And, it is home.
It's our heavenly father thatyou came to.
(25:24):
And while I had an entirelydifferent upbringing, we ran the
parallel paths.
And when you finally realizethat Jesus has been there all
along, you find out that youhave a purpose in life.
And what's amazing, and we're,we're kind of running out of
time, but.
The, the way God works, he'sfilled you now with that peace,
(25:45):
that joy and I have, I have theexact same.
We'll get into it in our nextepisode, how I got to, uh, how I
reached this path.
But without getting into it,that trip to Arizona led to you
and I meeting and led to whatwe're doing now.
And hopefully we're gonna beable to help some people out
along the way.
'cause there are a lot of peoplethat are struggling.
(26:06):
But you and I have found theanswer and, we're gonna try to
help share that, along the way.
Yeah.
Lovely.
Well, rich, it was fantastic,catching up with you.
We'll catch up again.
Uh, we'll catch up again next,next week.
Sounds great.
And um, we will, if we got justa minute, let me, there is a
scripture that I wanted to, toend our meeting with that it
(26:33):
just keeps popping up.
And if you can just bear with mejust one moment.
(26:53):
I wanna end with Philippians 4,6, 7.
'cause I think somebody outthere might need to hear this.
'cause I keep getting it poppingup.
And you and I have talked in thepast that things just keep
showing up in our heads thatneed to be, And people think of
the scripture, uh, in ourconversations.
Rich, uh, one thing I havelearned, uh, that kind of
brought was.
The Bible is not just, uh, wordsin a book.
(27:17):
They're actually God talking tous.
And you didn't really have timeto get into it, but you had an
experience where you looked atscripture and it reinforced you,
and uh, it filled you with thepeace.
But, uh, I really think peopleare out there struggling, need
to realize that, Bible versesare actually God talking to us.
And this is Philippians four,six through seven.
(27:38):
Do not be anxious aboutanything.
In every situation by prayer andpetition with Thanksgiving,
present your request to God andthe peace of God, which
transcends all understanding,will guard your hearts and your
mind in Christ Jesus.
Hallelujah man.
Great talking to you, rich.
(27:58):
Talk to you next week and hopethe rest of you will join us.
Take care.
Thanks Pat.
Stay off that moonshine man.
See you next week.
We're just filling the cattle upoutside and it's time for me to
go out, uh, and start huntingfor my meals.
Rich.
Nice.
We, we've made a little progresssince we got electricity down
here,, but I'm still out in thewoods, brother.
(28:18):
Alright, love you man.
Talk to you later.
Yeah, big luck Pat.
Alright, bye.
And welcome to everybody who'shaving or have had a great day,
and those of you who are hangingin there, and those of you who
are just thinking, oh Lord, Idon't know if I can continue to
do this.
I'm comedian and author, patMcCool on the shores of Lake
Deep in the Piney Woods ofSouthern Mississippi, and now.
(00:45):
My co-host from across theAtlantic in London, England.
My brother from the mothercountry esteemed psychotherapist
and addiction specialist,Richard Turrell.
Rich, what's up?
Yes, pat.
Nice to be here man.
Nice to see you.
Um, yes, I'm coming from Oxfordin the uk.
(01:07):
Uh, so about 30 miles outsideLondon.
Got a big university here, verygreen leafy rolling hills.
Yeah, that's what's up man.
Nice to be here.
Nice to see you again, pat.
That, that's so much better.
I like it when you're fromOxford, because when we met and
I ended up with a friend fromLondon, as I told you my
international sophistication,uh, level rose.
(01:29):
But when you moved to Oxford,that kicked it into another
notch.
I mean, look, honestly, like, itfelt like a supreme act of
service.
It felt like, it felt like anarea that you needed support in
part, I needed to be pulled up.
Just a little bit, you know,when I, when we combine all of
your degrees and my GEDI feltlike between the two of us we're
(01:51):
pretty well, uh, pretty wellrounded and we're both in
interesting places.
You're from, I guess how far is,Cambridge Oxford University from
you?
About three miles.
Um, this isn't, I actually grewup in a little town, uh, outside
of London, the other about 35miles to the east called South
End on Sea, which is a smallseaside town.
(02:16):
Um, so that's where I kind ofmisspent a large chunk of my
youth.
And then I, I came up here, Iwas in Oxford for five years and
misspent the last of it herereally.
Um, so I've, yeah, I've dottedabout a bit.
I'm a bit of a nomad pat.
Nomad within my own country.
Well, I'm a bit of a nomad.
I left these woods and went toNew York for six or seven years.
(02:38):
And then move back and so we'reboth near fairly interesting
locations because you, you'rethree miles, from one of, if not
the premier institution, uh,academic institution in the
world.
And I am a 3.1 miles from anuclear test site where the US
Army blew off a nuclear weapon.
(03:00):
In a tall salt dome in themiddle of these pine woods, I'm
not kidding you, you can Googlesalmon, salmon test site.
So I haven't seen any three,little three-legged frogs
crawling around the lake.
But, uh, but we are, you know,we got a little testy back in
the fifties.
We did, you know, we didn't wantthe, we didn't want the Soviet
showing up on the Jersey shore,so we started blowing up a few
(03:23):
things that maybe we couldpersuade'em otherwise, but
literally they blew up twonuclear bombs three miles down
the road.
So, so as you can see, thesimilarities between us are
spooky there.
Yeah, absolutely.
What there, you notice I calledyou Rich.
My wife asked you do you go byRich?
Do you guys like shorten namesin, yeah.
Nicknames.
Rich Is Rich is my favorite.
(03:43):
I prefer to be called Rich.
Yeah, Richard.
Oh, rich is good.
Yeah.
Richard's quite, quite formal.
So I'm not that, I'm not thatformal.
Pat.
I know that's actuallydevastating to you.
'cause I'd imagine in your mindI walk around in like a bowl of
hat twirling a cane.
Doing all that good Englishstuff, but actually, I'm,
that's, that, yeah.
Drinking tea.
Drinking tea.
Drinking tea.
(04:04):
I don't, I don't actually liketea.
You don't?
Is it, is that still the, stilla British thing?
The tea.
The tea and I noticed you'redoing it Pinky.
You know I this like, it's kindof aristocratic you lift the
pinky up.
But yeah, I mean, I can do, butI like, if it makes you happy,
you know I can do that for We'regood man.
(04:25):
You're making me, uh, you know,if I'm gonna get my
sophistication level up, I justwant, I just wanna meet you
there.
You know what I mean?
So yeah, my wife said, youcalling him Rich?
Does he go by Rich?
Because, over here, we shortenevery name, you know, like Yeah,
no, similar.
Similar, yeah.
You know, go ahead.
Are you Patrick McCallOfficially, and when I was in
(04:46):
trouble, which was quite often,as you know, as a child, it was
Patrick, but it's Pat.
And, uh, which, you know,wasn't, was kind of tough in
school because Pat can go eitherway.
And I asked my mother why I wasnamed, a girl's name and she
said, well, Patrick is anhonorable name in Ireland.
And I said, well, yeah, it's asissy name here in Mississippi
(05:09):
and it's, and it's causing me alot of fights.
But yeah, I just didn't know ifwe abbreviated, so we're, we're
cool with Rich'cause like if wehad a monarchy, we would have
king chuck.
Maybe King Chucky.
You know, we, we, we'd havePrince, prince William would be
Prince Billy.
If it was Texas it'd be likePrince Billy Wayne.
So yeah, that kinda stuff wouldprobably get you, uh, hung for
(05:34):
treason over here.
Alright, well we're not here forgetting hung for treason.
Well.
It's good to see you, rich.
And, for those of you that arejoining us for the first time,
which is virtually everybody,because this is the first time
we've done the podcast, uh,Richard and I met and we have a
passion for, Helping othersexperience the same joy and the
(05:57):
happiness, and peace that wefound through Christ.
And, we decided we wanted to tryto get together and, see if we
could help people experience thesame thing that we experienced.
So, for our first episode, wewanted to kind of give you a
background on how we both got tothis.
Part and in, true southernhospitality fashion.
We're gonna let Richard gofirst.
(06:17):
And Richard, if you'd just liketo give us your story, how, you
came through the strugglesyou've had in life and got to
this point.
Yeah.
Lovely.
Thanks Pat.
And I just wanna really echowhat you've said there.
You United Mission here is to.
Just kind of carry that messagereally about what Christ has
done in, in my life, in yourlife, in our lives, the
transformation that we'veexperienced.
(06:38):
You know, I've got a lot fromreading your book, pat.
Bonzo wasn't that big of a hillwoman's walk towards God.
Um, you know, our experienceswere very similar in that
regard.
So, yeah, my story, as I say, itbegan, in 1980 in a small
seaside town in England, calledSouth England Sea.
(06:58):
Ironically, it's not actually onthe sea, it's actually located
on the banks of a big estuary.
You know, the River Thames whereit starts to come out towards
the North Sea.
So it should, it would moreaccurately be called South End
on mud.
Um, and you know this is thenortheastern part of England,
Southeastern.
Southeast Southeastern.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So if I was Northeastern, itwould be the Northeastern and
(07:21):
the Southeast are very differentplaces.
Yeah.
I've done research, sorry, Ivery different cultures, but,
um.
Yeah, so I grew up there.
I mean, look, I came into quitea middle class background.
Um, you know, my dad was alawyer, and he went on to become
a judge.
My mom was a doctor, you know,like, uh, what would you guys
call it?
Um, family doctor.
(07:42):
Like family medicine, you know.
So general would be a generalpractitioner.
Yes, that's exactly what she wascalled over here.
Yeah.
A gp.
So, you know, on the face of it,like a nice kind of middle class
house.
Yeah.
Five bedroom house, two kids,mom, dad together, you know, two
nice cars on the drive, acleaner, a nanny,'cause mom and
(08:03):
dad were both busy with theircareers, you know, sort of like
private schools, you know,initially.
Right.
So all very, not all looked verynice and whilst.
I have a huge amount of, um,like admiration and respect for,
for my parents.
You know, like they've both beenfor a lot, you know, they both
(08:24):
come from difficult backgrounds,from like emotionally, um,
absent, at the very least, um,backgrounds and they didn't know
too much about how to bring kidsup.
And on top of that, my mom was,my mom was an alcoholic.
Yeah.
So she.
She had a, you know, a veryserious, um, ongoing problem
(08:46):
with alcohol and laterprescription drugs.
You know, obviously I knowthat's, you know, a huge problem
that you guys have over there aswell.
It's like a, definitely a, agrowing, getting worse and
worse.
Yeah.
And same over here, actually.
Same over here, getting worseand worse.
And particularly the sort ofyounger generation, that's
increasingly something that theyturn to.
Um, so yeah, I mean, it, it was.
(09:10):
There was violence in the housegrowing up.
Dad was scary.
Mum was kind of checked out alot of the time.
Mm.
Um, and my brother and I.
Was this towards you or betweenthe parents?
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No violence towards, you know,towards myself.
I think my brother got a littleless it.
My dad was a bit softer with himfrom, from a little bit what I
(09:31):
can remember, but also what I'veheard, you know, from, from
relatives and stuff.
My dad was a bit softer towardsmy brother.
Um.
By no means, like Easy Mum waspretty volatile, you know?
God bless her, you know, andthey both passed away, so, and
you know, and I know that my mumcame to Christ maybe about 20
years before she passed, and mydad fantastic.
(09:54):
Yeah, my dad did as well towardsthe end.
Although he never told, he nevertold us, right.
We never knew.
We never knew until he was inthe hospital in his days.
He was in the hospital in thelast week of his life, which was
pretty brutal.
Um, you know, the way he diedwas very tragic and very brutal.
Um, and, uh, and a priest turnedup and, uh, and it was, it was
(10:15):
the priest from the local churchand had come to, had come to see
him.
And, and you know, we found outthat he had, you know, had
become quite a big part of thatlike community and had had come
to faith.
Right.
So.
So that was, so they've bothpassed on in about the last five
years, but setting, if youmight, so he didn't share that
with you?
No, and that's a funny, go onPat.
(10:36):
Sorry.
You go ahead.
No, you go ahead.
Well, that's the funny thingabout the story is that my mom
came to faith and, um, therewere Christians in and around
our house a lot.
Um, and no one ever spoke to mybrother or I, and we were like,
well off the rails.
By this point you have thatexpression, like gone off the
rails.
Yeah, I lived off the rails, youknow.
We'll, we'll get you in the nextI was the one that bent the
(10:59):
rails.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The rails.
The rails were well in the rear.
The, were you, uh, had you andyour brother left home by the
time they came to Jesus, or, I'mtrying to remember the dates.
I might have got it a little bitwrong, but, but I, I mean, well,
you're still, you weren't kids.
We, we were in our teens, somaybe it's about 30.
(11:20):
Yeah.
Let's, so you're out doing yourthings.
So they're not really expressingthis with you.
They're not sharing it withyour, you find this out later?
Oh, much later.
Much, much later.
So much.
Wow.
I mean, so our upbringing wasone, you know, there was a lot
of dysfunction.
Basically it turned out Dad hadbeen having like this long
running affair.
We found out after he died, youknow, there was another house,
(11:42):
another woman, another child,you know, all this, you know,
big secret.
So we grew up in this soup ofdysfunction, pat, this so of
kind of lies violence andaddiction.
Right?
A lot of anger, a lot ofunspoken feelings floating
around the house.
Like until I was well into mythirties, I wouldn't have known
an emotion if it walked up to meand punched me in the face.
(12:03):
You know, very much learned,like moved like to live
upstairs, you know, live in myhead,'cause that was the sort of
safe, safest place to be awayfrom it.
And um, and then by the time Iwas 12, very, very uncomfortable
in my own skin.
You know, by the time you were12.
Yeah.
Very, very uncomfortable.
Uncomfortable in my own skin.
(12:23):
Anxious kid.
Didn't really fit in differentfrom the other kids at school.
Quite a bit of bullying.
Very overweight.
A bit odd.
And you know, it was like theeighties going into the very
early nineties.
Like kids were, kids wereparticularly cruel.
Right.
You know, they still are.
Definitely can be.
It shifted a bit over here.
(12:44):
Um, but yeah, like it wasn'tgreat basically.
And then I was 13, I found, Ifound hashish, you know, I found
cannabis, right?
And um, I remember smoking myfirst joint and just thinking,
this is how I want to feel, youknow?
I don't wanna feel that otherway, you know, I don't wanna
feel like this is how I wannafeel, you know?
(13:04):
I felt like.
I felt happy.
I felt free.
You know, I felt that, like thatease and that sense of ease and
comfort.
Right?
And so that was my, you know, inthe 12 step fellowships, we talk
about powerlessness, right?
So my first experience ofpowerlessness was, it wasn't
the, you know, I smoked a jointon day one.
And then on day two I startedstealing for it.
(13:24):
But what it was, it was likewhen day two came, I realized I
had an option.
I had an option.
I can either feel anxious,uncomfortable, full of
self-loathing and fear.
I can feel happy, free, relaxed,you know, like in the moment.
And so like my mission afterthat point, pat, was to feel
like that as much as possible.
And that was a, you know, thatwas a mission that I, I ran with
(13:47):
man.
Like I ran with, been there anddone that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I know, I know, you know,you have your, you, you know,
very similar kind of set ofexperiences and like, look, you
know, lots of people that, youknow, hopefully Will, will be
listening to this or come tolisten to this, will identify
with that experience.
Right.
And, um, you know, and it wenton like, you know, when I
became, uh, my education fizzledout, um, I, I mean, there was a
(14:14):
lot of stuff that happened, man,but by the time I was, like, by
the time I was 20 years old, Iwas addicted to crack cocaine.
By the time I was 21, I wasaddicted to Heroining.
Um.
That was like on and off, youknow, like by the time I was 25,
that was much more on than itever was off.
Right?
Um, but there was alwayssomething, whether it was booze,
(14:36):
cocaine, powder, cocaine,cannabis, ecstasy, amphetamine,
whatever.
There was always something.
Right.
There was always something.
And, um.
I sold drugs, um, you know,sometimes relatively
successfully, sometimesspectacularly, unsuccessfully.
You know, I ran, I ran aroundover a lot of money to people.
(14:57):
I got into a lot of trouble.
I was stabbed.
I got stabbed.
And, you know, I nearly died inan argument to do with drugs and
money when I was 25.
And then when I was 27, I, Ileft South end.
I left my hometown, um, under.
Something of a cloud, let's say.
Right?
Like there was a lot of peoplethat were like very unhappy with
(15:17):
me.
Um, I owed a lot of money my tocriminals, you know, my
behavior.
Uh, apart from the money, mybehavior was pretty off the
wall.
I'd upset a lot of people withmy antics.
Yeah.
Blackout drinking, causingtrouble, you know, all that sort
of stuff.
And, um.
I, I came actually up to Oxford'cause I had some family here
(15:38):
and, you know, for the freshstart, you know, and I got
clean, I did what would say overhere.
I did my rip, did my rattle.
So, I dunno what you call thatover there, but I, I withdrew, I
withdrew from everything, youknow, so I, yeah, I got clean.
And, um, how did you go fromSouth end?
What, what took you from Southend to Oxford?
(15:59):
I, I had family there, so I knewI, I would have somewhere to
stay.
And, um, I was homeless.
Um, I was like living like in acrack house.
Um, uh, you know, life.
I was at rock bottom, you know,like I was at rock bottom.
I was at this point a verysubsistence level kind of drug
user.
Right, right.
And um, so I came up to Oxford.
(16:19):
I got clean.
I had no idea what I sufferedwith.
I had no idea I had this bigspiritual, like emotional void
within me.
Um, you know, a good shapedhole.
I had no idea about any of that.
And, and then the truth is, pat,I was in so much pain that I,
you know, I used heroin againvery quickly within about five
days.
Right.
Because I just didn't know howto deal with myself, and I
(16:42):
certainly didn't know how todeal with the world.
Yeah.
Was it, was it the emotional orthe physical that got you right
back in five minutes?
Emotional, the physical.
I could deal with the physical.
It wasn't fun, but I could dealwith a physical, you know, but
it was the emotional, yeah.
You know, it was get.
Getting, getting clean and likejust this sap, I think I'm happy
here.
Over here.
I'm not, but it, it's all a lie,but keep going.
(17:05):
Yeah.
Well, it's that thing.
It's like I'm not com I'm justnot comfortable.
I'm not comfortable wherever Igo, you know?
And it, and I just couldn't,yeah.
I just couldn't deal withmyself.
Right.
So I realized very quickly thepart of Oxford I was in had a
lot of drugs in, and a lot ofdrug dealers.
Right.
And, and I, you know, I went,you know, I bought, I found a
dealer, I bought some heroin.
It was very easy.
(17:25):
And, um, called it smack overhere or brown.
These are different slang namesto, to what you guys have, I
think.
But, um, uh, and I, and I used,right, so I used the heroining
and I remember, like, I rememberthinking, you know, I knew, I
knew it wasn't a one off.
Yeah.
I knew I understood enough aboutmy experience of addiction at
this point to know that itwasn't a one off.
(17:48):
It wasn't like I was just gonnahave a night off these difficult
feelings and then got on withBuild, rebuilding my life.
I was back in.
I was back in it, you know, andthat this was, it was all gonna
happen again.
And that's what happened.
It all happened again.
Anyway, I found after aboutthree years and, you know, a
suicide attempt, some verylonely and kind of existence in
(18:11):
Oxford, some work, you know,like I wasn't, couldn't sell
drugs.
I didn't, you know, I justcouldn't, new Town, didn't know
anyone.
So I did some work.
I stole a lot from differentjobs and, and all that kind of
thing.
But you know, I did what Ineeded to do to feed my habit.
Um, and I ended up at a realemotional bomb, um, in that I
(18:33):
had somewhere to live.
I had a little bit of money, butI was just so kind of empty and
lonely, and I'm happy that I.
I sought help and I foundNarcotics Anonymous.
So I went on the, and I, I'vetried to track the date back.
I believe it was March the 16th,2010.
It was March, 2010.
I went to my first NarcoticsAnonymous meeting and, um, in,
(18:57):
you know, I didn't get itstraight away, but in July,
2012, I got clean, right.
And I, and I'm still clean now.
So next, uh.
In July this year, basically ina couple of months I'll be, I'll
be 13 years clean.
Right.
By the grace of God, right?
Yeah.
So, you know, not one drop ofalcohol, not one, you know,
total abstinence clean for, forthe best part of 13 years.
(19:19):
So, phenomenal.
Right?
Life changing.
And then I did all the things,you know, I did lots of 12 step
meetings and I explored theideas of spirituality, but I, I,
I was a bit of a like.
Spiritual tourist.
I've bounced around differentthings.
I've been to some odd places,done some odd things.
I've been, you know, kind ofBuddhist type stuff.
(19:39):
I've done a Native Americansweat lodge, right?
Like that was different.
Um, but it wasn't for me.
You know, obviously it's somepeople's belief system, but, um,
but what happened as well wasthat my addiction began to
manifest in other areas.
Um, work money.
Food and sex were like the mainculprits.
(20:03):
And I built a life, you know,externally, I had this life, you
know, I became quite successful.
You know, I had my own business.
I had a, you know, career, I hada reputation, you know, a good
reputation within the recoverycommunity.
You know, I was looked to assomeone that kind of had his,
you know, had his SHIT together,right?
And like knew what he was aboutand actually had this kinda
(20:25):
secret life where.
To manage the stuff that wasgoing on inside of me.
I was still, Floyd was stillthere.
The emptiness was still there.
Yeah, still there, man.
And acting out sexuallyovereating, you know, kind of
getting on for like an eatingdisorder.
Definitely workaholic.
Right.
And, um, I was married, um, Ilived in London.
(20:46):
I lived in a nice part ofLondon.
I had a nice car.
You know, I had some nicewatches, I had nice clothes.
You know, I had all these, youknow, all these things.
Right.
All the stuff, all the stuff ofthe world, um, you know, all
the, all the glitters, was, uh,you know, I had, I had a lot of
that stuff.
And then my, my wife discoveredthat I was a sex addict and that
(21:08):
I had been cheating on herregularly for the entire
duration of our relationship.
And at that point, and thatgives me chills, even just
saying it right, like.
I remember that day, I rememberhow devastated she was, and I
remember how, for me, the, therewas guilt, of course, for what
(21:28):
I'd done for her, which I stillcarry.
There was also just this senseof absolute shame that this part
of me that I'd kept hidden, youknow, I'd really done everything
to, to keep hidden, had beenripped out into the world, um,
into the light and was shown,and I.
(21:50):
To, to cut a long story short, Iwas admitted to a treatment
center in the US in Arizona for,for treatment, for sex
addiction.
And it was there in the desertthat, um, that I had a really
personal encounter with Christ.
You know, there was a friend ofmine there who was a pastor.
(22:12):
There was a chaplain there whowas a remarkable man.
I'd already, I'd begun to attendchurch, um, looking for answers
and had found some respite fromwhat aided me, but was still,
you know, still very much, uh,wrapped up in, in addiction, um,
(22:33):
in different forms.
And I ended up in, in the desertof Arizona and I.
I started to understand whatgrace was, and I started to
understand who Christ was, and Istarted to understand what
forgiveness meant, and, andeverything changed for me and I
(22:55):
had a very powerful experienceof feeling like I was forgiven.
And I don't, by that I don'tmean forgiven for the things
that I've done.
By my wife or, or, you know, byother people that had got hurt
by what I did.
My wife's family were very, verybadly hurt by what I did.
(23:16):
But I mean, like, on a deeperspiritual level, like I was
forgiven.
And, uh, and I remember that wasvery profound and that, that
told me, what I learned fromthat, from that experience was
how I'd, I'd, I'd never beenable to forgive myself, like
just for being alive, you know?
I carried such a deep level ofshame.
Like, even for just existing.
(23:36):
And so that was very profound.
And then, you know, I know thisis of course stuff we'll, we'll
talk about in more detail as, asthis develops, but you know, and
then I began to have anexperience where I realized how
loved I was.
You know, I just felt this lovewash over me.
Like just this, it was liketaking a shower in, in this
room.
Yeah.
That, yeah.
(23:57):
It was all that emptiness.
All that emptiness.
Yeah.
I was just.
Just filled with this sense oflove.
And I, I, I remember I was inchurch and I, I sobbed, you
know, I was sobbed, uh, youknow, and, um, I, I just
realized like I'd never, I'venever felt love like that.
I'd never known how to be lovedlike that, you know?
And, um, it's the Holy Spirit,so, yeah.
(24:19):
Yeah.
The Holy Spirit man, like, ittouched me, like it touched me
and I just felt, you know, andthere've been many other
experiences along the way that,too much to get into now, but
they, you know, that told methat I was.
I was in the right place.
You know, I was in the rightplace and I was, I was where I
needed to be.
Like, I've come home, you know,I know that's a cliche, but it's
like I've come home and, uh, andso my faith journey's continued
(24:40):
since then, you know, and, um, Ihave found such peace and grace
and direction and purpose, and.
So much through it.
And, and, and that's why, youknow, that's why I, I, you know,
like we spoke about Pat, I, Iwant other people to have the,
you know, the opportunity toexperience the same thing, you
(25:03):
know, and, um.
I'm not like you and me, pat,we're not theologians.
You know, and we're, we'recertainly not classic
churchgoers.
Right?
We are not.
That's why we are the twounlikely Christians.
Two unlikely Christians man.
But yeah, that in a nutshell,that's, that's my story, man.
Well, that's a beautiful story.
And, it is home.
It's our heavenly father thatyou came to.
(25:24):
And while I had an entirelydifferent upbringing, we ran the
parallel paths.
And when you finally realizethat Jesus has been there all
along, you find out that youhave a purpose in life.
And what's amazing, and we're,we're kind of running out of
time, but.
The, the way God works, he'sfilled you now with that peace,
(25:45):
that joy and I have, I have theexact same.
We'll get into it in our nextepisode, how I got to, uh, how I
reached this path.
But without getting into it,that trip to Arizona led to you
and I meeting and led to whatwe're doing now.
And hopefully we're gonna beable to help some people out
along the way.
'cause there are a lot of peoplethat are struggling.
(26:06):
But you and I have found theanswer and, we're gonna try to
help share that, along the way.
Yeah.
Lovely.
Well, rich, it was fantastic,catching up with you.
We'll catch up again.
Uh, we'll catch up again next,next week.
Sounds great.
And um, we will, if we got justa minute, let me, there is a
scripture that I wanted to, toend our meeting with that it
(26:33):
just keeps popping up.
And if you can just bear with mejust one moment.
(26:53):
I wanna end with Philippians 4,6, 7.
'cause I think somebody outthere might need to hear this.
'cause I keep getting it poppingup.
And you and I have talked in thepast that things just keep
showing up in our heads thatneed to be, And people think of
the scripture, uh, in ourconversations.
Rich, uh, one thing I havelearned, uh, that kind of
brought was.
The Bible is not just, uh, wordsin a book.
(27:17):
They're actually God talking tous.
And you didn't really have timeto get into it, but you had an
experience where you looked atscripture and it reinforced you,
and uh, it filled you with thepeace.
But, uh, I really think peopleare out there struggling, need
to realize that, Bible versesare actually God talking to us.
And this is Philippians four,six through seven.
(27:38):
Do not be anxious aboutanything.
In every situation by prayer andpetition with Thanksgiving,
present your request to God andthe peace of God, which
transcends all understanding,will guard your hearts and your
mind in Christ Jesus.
Hallelujah man.
Great talking to you, rich.
(27:58):
Talk to you next week and hopethe rest of you will join us.
Take care.
Thanks Pat.
Stay off that moonshine man.
See you next week.
We're just filling the cattle upoutside and it's time for me to
go out, uh, and start huntingfor my meals.
Rich.
Nice.
We, we've made a little progresssince we got electricity down
here,, but I'm still out in thewoods, brother.
(28:18):
Alright, love you man.
Talk to you later.
Yeah, big luck Pat.
Alright, bye.
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