August 5, 2025 • 41 mins
The future of commercial real estate isn't where most investors are looking. While countless developers chase diminishing returns in saturated multifamily markets, visionary entrepreneurs like Alec McElhinny are creating extraordinary value in overlooked niches that most ignore.
McElhaney's approach centers on two particularly promising sectors: flex space development and office-to-data-center conversions. His flex space projects serve blue-collar businesses like plumbers, HVAC technicians, and auto shops that need combined office and warehouse facilities. Located in booming corridors like the region between San Antonio and Austin—where 1.5 million people are expected to move in the next decade—these developments are strategically positioned to capitalize on explosive growth. With 84,000 square feet under development north of New Braunfels and another 100,000 square feet of retail space planned in Hutto, McElhinny's projects offer investors preferred returns of 12% and targeted IRRs of 22% over just 24 months.
What truly distinguishes McElhinny's strategy is his focus on specialized niches within broader asset classes. Rather than competing in increasingly crowded flex space markets, he targets flex retail and flex with outdoor storage—products with tremendous demand but minimal competition. This approach stands in stark contrast to the multifamily sector, where many investors face devastating losses after purchasing properties at peak prices with unrealistic rent growth projections.
Perhaps most compelling is McElhinny's vision for data center conversions from existing office buildings. In a post-pandemic world with declining office demand, these structures often already possess critical infrastructure for data centers: substantial power access, UPS systems, and generators. Some buildings can access nearly 100 megawatts of power with available land for expansion—perfect for rapid conversion to data processing facilities as AI and computing demands explode.
Through vertical integration, international material sourcing, and laser-focused development strategies, McElhinny has built a recession-resistant business poised for exceptional growth across high-potential markets in Texas, Florida, and the Carolinas. His story reminds us that in real estate, the highest returns often come not from following crowds, but from having the vision to see value where others don't.
Ready to explore opportunities in these overlooked but highly profitable niches? Visit www.land-play.com to learn more about current and upcoming projects.
To Learn More About Alec McElhinny:
1. https://land-play.com/
2. https://www.linkedin.com/in/alecjmcelhinny2027747777/
To learn more about Jonathan's recession resilient mobile home park real estate Fund, as our next Fund raise is $50 million only for accredited investors: https://www.midwestparkcapital.com/
To learn more about Flex Space, Land, and Data Centers and invest along side UHNW along with Family Offices: https://land-play.com/
To learn more about Jonathan's highest level business growth consulting and fractional CMO services. And upcoming group zoom entrepreneur masterminds:
https://www.revenueascend.com/consulting/
Sign up to get on the list for the World's Most Exclusive Social Networking App: https://www.prestigesocialapp.com/
To those looking to potential exit or sell their business or talk about potential business roll up partnerships:
https://www.businesscashout.com/
https://linktr.ee/jonathantuttle
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
But my favorite asset class out of everything right
now is data centers and not justdata centers like a specific
niche in the data center worldthat I think everybody's kind of
skipping out on, and that'soffice reconversions.
There's a lot of officebuildings out there that have
(00:24):
access to a lot of power, thatalready have a UPS system, and
that's just like the backuppower if the power goes off.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome to the Ultra High Net Worth Podcast, which is
a global community of the mostsuccessful and their insights.
We want our families toflourish, collaborate and create
a better world for all.
This podcast is a trustedresource to learn from each
other, navigate the mostimportant global issues and find
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I'm the host, jonathan Tuttle,the founder at Midwest Park
(00:58):
Capital, a boutique mobile homepark real estate fund.
Revenue Sun, a leading digitalconsulting and fractional CMO
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Business Cashout, a boutiqueM&A firm focused on
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This episode is sponsored byPrestige, the world's most
(01:18):
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Enjoy the show, please likecomment.
Share this podcast with yourfriends.
Thanks for listening.
Welcome back to the Ultra HighNetwork Podcast and today I have
a fantastic guest, alec Mahoneyfrom Landplay.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Thanks, Jonathan.
Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Perfect man.
So like we had a conversation,because you actually are doing
pretty some pretty fascinatingthings in the commercial real
estate world and realm includingsome very interesting niches.
First, you want to just give areal quick background.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah, I, my name is Alec McElhaney.
I was a math major in collegeand got into real estate,
started out in residential,bought my first duplex with an
FHA loan and just scaled fromthere.
I bought my first commercialbuilding about three or four
years ago in Minnesota and I gotinto developing about two,
(02:19):
three years ago.
Started out with FlexSpace andthis year I have around 250,000
feet going up.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Nice, love it, yeah.
And then let's talk about flexspace, cause that's kind of like
a hot topic right now.
Uh, what is it?
Who does it serve?
And like, what's the valuebehind it If you're an investor?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, um, so flex space is a uh, it's a very
underbuilt product in a lot ofmarkets right now.
It's small bay, industrial, alot of tenants, and these are
kind of like blue-collar tenantsthat we're after, like your
(03:01):
plumber, your HVAC, your granttenant, a gym, pet care, car
detailer, auto shop, anybodythat just needs a little bit of
space in an office.
And there's also a lot ofpeople that have a.
They already have an officespace, they already have a
warehouse, but they want to haveit in one spot, and that's what
FlexSpace solves You're able toget your office and your
warehouse in the same building.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So is it kind of like correct me if I'm wrong, I
actually know the answer.
But for the audience is it kindof like self-storage, kind of
like that, but for actualbusinesses, or is it kind of
like retail or a combination ofboth?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah, it's very similar.
It's a very similar metal typeof building self-storage and you
can pivot the product.
However, during COVID, a lot ofthe flex space was used to like
store masks and whatnot andsanitize and things like that,
and you can also use flex spaceto have a retail component to it
(04:00):
.
If you're building flex spaceon a major road, you can have
tenants who'll pay about two,three bucks a foot more.
Just have that road frontageand have their sign out front.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, so it gives you like the beauty of it is like
from a developer side of it is.
It gives you flexibility, asthe name implies, and it can be
very flexible to maneuver basedon what the market, current
market needs are, and especiallybecause it doesn't have a lot
of capex behind it so you can beflexible and what type of
tenants you could take, whichgives like a really different
perspective, because mostcommercial real estate you're
(04:33):
stuck with one.
Whatever you develop, it costsa lot to capex or you know, to
build out for, on the retail,for example, be pretty expensive
.
But, like at this, you gotpretty much open space and you
can just, you know, add what youneed and what you don't don't
need.
What are, um, tell me, one ofthe projects you're working on
right now in the flex spacerealm?
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, um, so we have a?
Uh, we have an 84,000 squarefoot development coming up.
Um, I just got a 10.7 acre siteunder contract a little bit
north of new bromfels and that'sright between san antonio and
austin, one of the fastest runcorridors in all of america.
There's around a million and ahalf people moving um between
(05:15):
those two cities in the next 10years and all the land is being
bought up.
Um, you have major developmentsgoing up all around.
You have the mayfairdevelopment.
Um, you have.
You have a Costco being put upright across the street, 10,000
homes that are coming to marketpretty soon within a quarter
mile of my property.
So it's just it's a boomingarea right now and there's,
(05:38):
honestly, it's hard to keep upwith the demand right now.
People want to live there.
But yeah, it's a 10.7 acre siteas a quarter mile of road
frontage on 35.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
And we're going to build it in two phases and we're
going to build seven around12,000 square foot buildings and
a little bit of outside storagetoo for tenants who need some
outside storage.
Love it.
And the cool thing is, like yousaid, and anything with real
estate it's about, obviously,property placement.
(06:10):
I-35 is one of the fastestgrowing, actually, between San
Antonio and Austin, is thatcorrect?
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, I think it's grown like crazy and the numbers
are pointing at around amillion and a half, maybe more
in the next 10 years.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So you got major road frontage on a major highway and
you have 10,000 homes.
So obviously if you're abusiness, small business owner,
you want to have all that influxof people coming in.
What is?
The average home has two kids,2.2 kids, and so you got 40,000,
50,000 people going to be rightadded into that approximately
(06:45):
that neighborhood.
Plus you have all the majornational retailers, which makes
it really attractive toinvestors and or you developing
it, because your location,location, location, real estate
and then obviously, with caprates, this is a property asset
class that has distinctiveadvantages compared to other
real estate.
Do you want to kind of give acouple examples of that?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
yeah, my favorite, uh , one of my favorite things
about flex space is that it'sreally easy to build um and a
lot of developers don't realizethis um, it's.
It's easier to build a 10 000square foot building than a 2
000 square foot house.
Um, and that might be a littlesurprising at first, but I use a
prefabricated metal for thebuildings and that's essentially
(07:31):
like a Lego set.
So the metal company will senda big package of metal parts and
they'll have instructions righton the parts how to put the
whole thing together, and youjust hire a metal erection crew
and they all have experience, uh, putting up those metal
buildings are all pretty similar.
So, um, and there's not a lotof things that go into it, you
(07:52):
need a little bit of plumbing,um, you need a little bit of
water, um, and some, maybe,maybe some three-phase power and
maybe some hvac, and it's justa metal box with, uh, just a few
utilities.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
so kind of reminisce of like self storage, but for a
tenant.
Yeah, that's a prettyfascinating fact because you
alluded to the fact, because mydad was a custom home builder
and he built like 75 customhomes small homes but uh, around
that size you mentioned that'sa lot of jobsites.
There always is a lot more goingon the foundation, the concrete
guy, then you have like, andit's just there always is a lot
(08:24):
more going on the foundation,the concrete guy, then you have
like, and it's just very thebuilding house it could take.
It's a long process because ofhow much you know, like all the
different processes and teampeople coming in.
So if you simplify the buildingprocess and this is a
commercial real estate assetclass, which is, uh, obviously
better because you actuallycontrol the value of the
property based on the rents,unlike single family house where
(08:46):
it's like make up number basedon comps in the area and you
can't control it based on, youknow, supply and demand.
But in a commercial state youactually can control a lot more
of the narrative, which makes alot more obviously attractive
and obviously a lot of familyoffices, private activists they
understand that dynamic, buttell me about um.
(09:07):
So you have that.
And then is there any otherprojects you can have a pipeline
that are kind of like prettyfascinating or interesting as
well we're fully funded for uh,um, our other site.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
So that's uh in huddle and that's a retail
development that'll be around100 000 feet and that project
will be about twice the size ofthe new broncos black space
project.
Um, and I'm really excitedabout that one um.
I this is my first timebuilding retail um, and we're
going to be doing uh, it'scalled concrete, pour in place
um, so you'll pour the wallslike on on your pad and then
(09:38):
you'll you'll tilt them right upum, and that's something I've
never done before.
But but one of my partners thatI'm partnering with, he's he's
built a lot of retail and hasdone a lot of that.
So I'm kind of leaning on himmore for the, the porn place and
the TI, so really excited tojust learn about retail and just
(09:59):
make a great product.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
So yeah, that sounds cool.
What about?
Is there any kind of um, likesome of these success stories
you've had based on or yourpartners have had based on, like
some past deals?
You can list a couple examplesyeah, um.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
So my first, um, my first warehouse.
I bought I think I bought itfor like 1.7 uh somewhere around
there and it's probably worthabout three million today um,
and just put the demising wallup, uh, fix up some bathrooms,
um, and then lease it out totenants and that's basically the
, the play with real estate.
Um, you, if you want to do valueadd, it's, it's all based off
(10:38):
the triple net lease and thecalvary.
Um, if you find a buildingthat's vacant, the bank can't
value that, can't give any valueto that and can't lend money on
it, so it's has a verydepressed value.
If you're able to buy one ofthose and fill it with tenants,
you're able to really change thevalue of that building.
And then I got into Flex spaceabout two, three years ago.
(11:01):
My first project was a an acresite and it was a 10,000 square
foot development and this was myuh, this is my first
development I've ever uh, tried.
Uh.
It was out in virginia, a littlebit south of dc, about 45
minutes south of dc, um, and Iwas looking for land for
(11:22):
probably about three monthsbefore that and I found this
piece of land.
It was one acre.
A lot of developers wereoverlooking it and I noticed a
few things about it.
There was a stormwatermanagement pond for the entire
park, which means that you don'tneed to build a stormwater
management pond.
Stormwater management ponds areexpensive to build and they
(11:46):
take up a lot of room.
So that was almost like $100K$150K saved right there.
The site had all the utilitiesI needed.
It had water and sewer, so Ididn't have to pay any extra or
deal with any risk of bringingutilities over.
The most important thing aboutthe site is that it had site
plans.
It had site plans for a flexbuilding for 10,000 square feet,
(12:11):
and, for those of you who arenot into developing, one of the
biggest risks with developmentis buying raw land and then
fighting the city or the countyto get it approved.
Some cities or counties cantake two, three years to get
approved.
Sometimes you'll never getapproved and you're just stuck
with land that's worth nothing.
But it was already approved andwe could start permits within a
(12:35):
month.
So I raised for a site that was30,000 feet right down the
street from that one, and thisis how I discovered what was
called retail flex space.
If you're able to find a sitethat should be a retail site but
(12:57):
might have something wrong withit, like there's not enough
sewer on the site for a retailproject or there aren't, they're
quite.
There, quite isn't enough.
Uh, cars going by every day um,I think a lot of retail sites
you know around like 30, 40 000cars going by a day and this one
only had like called seven,twelve thousand cars, something
like that.
(13:18):
Um, it's not.
It's not good enough for retail, but it it's perfect for flex
retail.
And that's a flex building andyou put a tenant in there who
just needs that road frontage,and that could be a granite
tenant or a plumber orelectrician who just wants
better visibility beyond abigger road.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Very cool.
Yeah, I mean that's.
I just like the beauty of likethe industry, because you are
that niche, because you canliterally maneuver based on what
industry comes in there.
What are?
What kind of makes you standout your projects, comparatively
say, or actually just say theniche in general?
What are kind of the moreadvantages if somebody is
looking to invest or looking toget into flex space?
(14:00):
How does different?
What are some of the pros andcons compared to other ethnic
classes?
Speaker 1 (14:05):
yeah, um, so I'll.
I'll compare against themulti-family, uh, the
multi-family guys, because thoseare probably the most popular
razors.
Um, and a lot of you listeningto this probably know that
multi-family guys are in a lotof trouble.
Um, they all went to thesemindset conferences and didn't
(14:26):
really do their homework andjust raise a bunch of money and
bought something that theyprobably should have shouldn't
have bought.
I was just talking to a guy amonth ago, a pretty, pretty
famous guy.
If I said his name, everybodywould recognize who he is.
He, he bought a multifamilybuilding out in Austin for $70
(14:47):
million and today it's for $35million and he's going to have
to default on it and lose allthe investor capital, and that's
a risk with investing in thesemultifamily guys.
A lot of them don't really knowwhat they're doing and they're
just following the herd.
And if you're in development,you want to do the opposite.
You want to find what everybodyelse is attaching, and that's
(15:11):
that's what FlexSpace is.
A lot of people aren't touchingFlexSpace and I'm I'm I'm
finding deals that are moreniche than FlexSpace.
So I'm focusing on Flex retailor Flex Flex and outdoor storage
, and I don't.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I don't see any developers touching those and I
see demand for that super, superhigh so, yeah, like that,
because, uh, multifamily is agreat example because there's a
lot of people invest in it.
I think 70 offices do a lot ofpeople place.
I could consider the safe betthe time that comes down to the
operators.
And, like I said, like I thinka lot of people bought in 2021,
(15:47):
2020, when the cap rates werelow and the whole plan was keep
raising around, keep raisingrents, and when the cap rates or
that cap rates, but theinterest rates were low sorry,
yeah, the cap rates were low too, but, um, but the interest
rates were obviously spiked andthen they can't write.
And then, with the economychanging, and then they, they
can't raise the rents and so alot of people, the properties I
thought they keep raising rentsand that was a play.
(16:10):
Just buy a deal and like, oh,just double the rents.
You know it's cheaper to dothat and add some amenities and
say it's class b, go from classc to b or b to a, just by
throwing in, you know, a gym anda pool, or upgrading some of
the stuff in the amenities floorand throwing in some stainless
steel appliances, but thenpeople just got priced out and
(16:31):
downsized a lot.
So, uh, it's pretty fascinating.
I remember there was a story toyour point.
There was a, an operator Ithink I was out of texas too.
He was just buying deals and hewasn't like really a real
estate guy but he had like areally big network.
I don't know like, oh, this, wejust raised this and people
handed money because it was kindof like, and he was buying
(16:53):
deals and I think every dealthis is about a year ago and all
the deals were and they werebig deals or like 75 million,
100 million dollar property, itwas like three or four in a row
and he just let him go.
He didn't know how to run them,he didn't know how to operate
them, and so, to your point,yeah, like it's comes down to
the team having experienced team, people didn't actually know
the real estate game.
Uh, yeah, that's.
And to your point, there'sanother thing.
(17:14):
There's a lot of people thatjust started like all of a
sudden.
I think they were inspired by,like grand cardones and stuff
like that.
Like, oh, like, just buy amultiamily, it doesn't care if
you have any background in realestate.
Like, we both have a littleextensive background in real
estate.
It's like we had to go throughthe whole process to learn real
estate.
These people like listened to acouple you know social media
(17:35):
posts and they think they knowthe industry based on, you know
some influencer on social mediatalking about just buy this
class, and then they get raisedmoney and buy bad deals because
they don't actually know how tounderwrite the property, how to
run it, how to manage it and allthe nuances of actually real
estate, what it entails inday-to-day operations.
So yeah, it's prettyfascinating what happened, it's
(17:55):
transpired last couple years inthat regard.
Um, and then also, what do youthink where do you see flex
space over the next five years,like, where do you kind of see
it?
Do you think it's becoming moremainstream?
Do you think where do you seeFlexBase over the next five
years?
Like, where do you kind of seeit?
Do you think it's becoming moremainstream?
Do you think it's going tostill be kind of low key where
people don't know about it, ordo you think it's starting to
get into traction?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I so about two, three years ago I wouldn't be
building FlexBase out inIndustrial Park, far away from
like, not on a major road orwithout outside storage, and I
would be completely fine.
I just wouldn't be doing thatright now because I see other
developers like starting to perka lot of the multifamily guys
too who like to follow crowds.
Those guys are perking up theirheads and moving into this.
(18:36):
So I'm already shifting to amore niched flex build out and
that's the flex retail and alsoflex outdoor storage, and that
just means you put up a metalbuilding and maybe have an acre,
two acres of outside storage,and that's a very high demand
product and you can't findenough of it.
If you talk to any broker intown, they're just turning
(18:59):
people away.
They're like I'm sorry, I can't, we can't find any buildings
available like that, and that'sthe type of product you want to
build.
You want to build somethingthat everybody wants, that
people pay premium for, andthat's that's what I, that's
what I'm focusing on and I seethat being a great play in the
next three years and I think alot of developers are going to
(19:19):
be missing that one.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, and what I also like to see is developing has
always been the highest returnin real estate.
And so you know like, yeah,from real estate development
background, it's always a loteasier because you're like, if
you have your, you know you gotyour costs down, you have the
team, you know how to execute it.
It's a lot better than tryingto find, you know, turnaround
property and then there's alwaysa variable that don't pop up.
(19:42):
Then the capex sheet they justassume to there's always hidden
projects and things and turnaround property, especially like
in certain asset classes whereyou don't see it and you have to
assume that there's gonna behidden cost and then those end
up being the curveballs thatkill a lot of the returns.
And so development gives youthat flexibility to get those
returns and the cash and cash isworks and really high, for
(20:09):
example, out of some of thereturns you are seeing or some
of the projects returns you kindof speculate to see.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
So for my investors, we are, uh, giving them a 12
prof and then we're targeting a22 irr and I think that's going
to be a pretty easy number tohit honestly.
Um, because we we're focusingon a product that nobody else is
building and we're able tobuild a lot cheaper than most
people.
We GC a lot of our projectsourselves and we're vertically
(20:35):
integrated and we're hungry andwe're focused.
That's all I do, like I only dodevelopment.
If you talk to other developers, they got an Amazon business,
they got you know a few otherbusinesses and they're chasing
after a bunch of different assetclasses and you start talking
to them about just one assetclass and they don't really know
(20:57):
all that much.
So it's the competition outhere in Texas.
It's not very hard to beat thecompetition honestly if you're
focused and you're hungry andyou're vertically integrated and
what's think.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
For some people that's a 12 prep like an average
fund.
What do you, what do youtypically see?
An average fund like seven,eight, ten percent Max usually
yeah, I would.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
I would probably say, um, I would get somewhere
around seven.
Eight percent is prior topeople, and then probably 12-15%
for your targeted IRR.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
So this is almost almost double yeah, that's
insane and you're in like one ofthe fastest growing markets,
which also makes it reallyappealing to the asset.
What's kind of the point forthe long term like are you going
to exit, keep it, cash, cashout, refi.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Yeah, so we were targeting to have the project.
We're targeting thatconstruction will be done within
12 to 14 months and then youhave to.
You have to lease it out for alittle bit.
After that, it should be prettyeasy to sell the project within
24 months and that's ourtargeted exit date.
So 22% IRR over two years, andthen we'll either yeah, we'll
(22:12):
either sell it or we'llrefinance it and buy investors
out of that market rate.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And some of the other things you mentioned before, as
you're looking to be creativeand going to where a lot of
people aren't going.
What are some other assetclasses that you're looking to
be creative and going to where alot of people aren't going?
Uh, what are some other assetclasses that are that you're
looking to explore in the nearfuture?
Speaker 1 (22:30):
yeah, um, I, I like land.
Land is pretty cool.
Um, you can entitle it or youcan land bank, like, wait for
utilities to come over it.
Um, and entitling just means,uh, just get it ready for the
developer.
Um, like it's, it's a turnkeypiece of land that you can sell
to a developer and they can juststart building and that that
developer will pay quite thepremium for that, because it
(22:52):
takes away a lot of the risk andit's really easy to raise for.
Um, but my favorite asset classout of everything right now is
data centers, and not just datacenters like a, a specific niche
in the data center world that Ithink everybody's kind of
skipping out on, and that'soffice reconversions.
There's a lot of officebuildings out there that have
(23:21):
access to a lot of power, thatalready have a UPS system and
that's just like the backuppower if the power goes off, and
generators.
They already have that, theyalready have access to a lot of
power and they're already veryconnected and pretty close to a
carrier hotel.
You can find a lot of them andthat's a great candidate for a
(23:46):
data center and some of theseoffice buildings we're seeing
can get access to almost like100 megawatts of power and have
yeah, just have like a lot ofextra land available to build
out a campus.
So that's kind of what I'mtargeting right now.
We're looking for officebuildings like between 20 to
(24:10):
call 50 million that can getaccess to 20, 30 megawatts plus
of power in the next two yearsand just like a quick turnaround
data center.
And I really like those,because these hyperscale sites,
they're really interesting andthey're really big numbers.
You're sometimes hearing aboutgigawatt sized hyperscale sites
(24:32):
which are in the billions ofdollars, which is that's awesome
, but it's going to take areally long time to get power to
that site because, um, um,there's a delay with
transformers right now and alsofor those uh, bigger, uh, those
bigger generators here.
It just takes a little bit toget those.
Um, and then, depending on whatcounty or city you're in,
(24:55):
you're going to be fighting this.
You're going to be fightinguphill battle to get your data
center approved, um, where theseoffice buildings, um, they
might already be in a zoneapproved for data centers.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
so yeah, that's a lot of good points there and I'll
recap that it reminds megigawatts back to the future.
Yeah, the um.
A couple good points becauseright now they have office
buildings are going for realsteep discounts you're seeing in
some of these major cities andeverywhere because people start
working online or workingremotely after the COVID and
(25:29):
more office builds over bills.
You're getting the assetpre-built with the powers, like
all of the infrastructure, andit can handle it for a fraction.
Penny isn't a dollar and citieswant to work with you too
because it's an eyesore.
They want to collect revenue.
They were used to collectingrevenue tax in real estate,
exactly taxes, now moreincentivized to pay.
(25:54):
We're going to recover this andit's going to help, you know,
bring revenue.
So the city is going to like it.
So you have that.
You have you're eliminating alot of that development phase
three you're also not goingafter the ultra, ultra big
projects.
I just saw an article yesterdayor today.
Was that?
Uh, even if you really chase areally large money, if you go to
(26:16):
the family office conference,you study what's going on with
the ultra wealthy, uh, they'lltry, not worth, uh, even.
Uh, zuckerberg's gonna developa data center because he wants
to stay ahead of it becauseobviously he's got his
infrastructure and his aicomponents and you know, based
like met, on all the other sapps and assets he owns.
But it's gonna be bigger.
(26:37):
His data center's supposed tobe bigger than the size of
Manhattan, to your point.
Uh, I don't know what thatmeans if it's like, like in
terms of square footage orbuilding size or whatever.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Obviously, it's crazy , I never heard that that is
awesome.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I'll send you the article after I just saw it
today.
Or is it gonna be like, I don'tknow, he's gonna buy a small
island with his money who knowsand then build out the
infrastructure, but it's gonnabe a long project.
So you want to be to move, getfirst moment's advantage, quick
turnaround, investors get paid.
The deal is not supercomplicated, uh, but you're also
(27:11):
serving a huge need with,obviously, you know everything
with ai and data usage andquantum computing and all that
stuff coming on.
You know as it's evolving intothat space and how much data is
just going forward.
Um, and streaming.
Everything uses so much shadow.
So it's gonna be prettyfascinating to be and find that
little niche that most peoplewill look.
It kind of goes back to yourmentioned how you're being
(27:33):
creative with the, the flexspace and find those niches that
people kind of overlook givesyou like a competitive and
distinct advantage.
Uh, it's pretty, it's prettysmart.
I like it.
It's pretty cool.
Like I kind of navigate that andum, yeah, the other side is
pretty fascinating and I, youknow I've been traveling here
for the last few months and datacenters always like kind of the
highlight of the city.
(27:53):
City is like they might notlike develop it, but when they
do approve it, they do like kindof there, like hey, we have a
data center, because it kind ofshows that they're a tech board
city or you know, they'relooking to the future.
So, um, what kind of feedbackare you hearing from investors
in regards to data centers?
Are they who's the type ofdemographic words and what's
kind of returns on a deal likethat?
(28:14):
Because it's you know you talkabout these huge deals but, like
I know, do you guys have somenumbers in mind or what's?
Speaker 1 (28:25):
kind of like some data about that.
Yeah, the data center deals thenumbers of them are pretty
crazy.
Um, the the multiples on yourmoney is going to be really high
.
Um, I don't know what type ofirR that investors could get
from them, and I haven't put adata center deal together quite
(28:46):
yet.
We're getting pretty close toclosing on or getting a couple
sites under contract.
We have a couple SMEs workingfor us.
That's a great question I like.
Will it be?
Like?
Will the target be at a valueadd um IRR, or will it be at a
development IRR?
Um, I, I think the numbers arethere to do higher than both.
(29:09):
Honestly, and that's probablywhat we're we'll settle on.
So, um, cause, we were, we're,we're thinking long-term growth
Um, um, we want to get a few ofthese uh going this year, next
year, um, and if we can find afew family offices to partner
with, um, we don't mind sharingthe, sharing the wealth at all.
We, we think that there's somuch opportunity that everybody
(29:30):
could win.
So, and there's a huge needit's a, there's a huge need um
for data centers in any way thatwe can help that out.
Um, I just want to be part ofthat.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, I mean, obviously we know AI has taken
over the world the last coupleof years and it takes so much
computing power to you know it'spretty fascinating.
But it's so fascinating likewhen you type in something in AI
, like how fast and how many,like how it searches the
internet and find so manyanswers.
It's pretty fascinating.
Um, what kind of investors are?
(30:01):
You said family offices,private equity, institutional
cyber wealth funds?
Is that kind of like some ofthe demographics you're looking
at tap into?
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, it's probably gonna be bigger, bigger
investors.
I'm not sure what the minimumwill be, but probably at least a
million for those.
Um, maybe closer to 5 million.
I would love to find just a fewfamily offices to work with for
the data centers, and a greatway to build a relationship up
with us is to invest in one ofour deals right now.
(30:33):
That's a great way to start therelationship with us.
But yeah, I see a lot of growthwith the data center.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, that's, that's cool and what are some of the?
What are the things you're kindof looking forward to do
besides real estate?
What's kind of some things youshould have as years right now.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
I recently just got comfortable saying this to
people I don't.
I don't have any hobbies.
I like working.
Um, uh, I love talking toreally smart, uh, brilliant
people.
Um, whenever I uh, I'm talkingto Jonathan on the phone, um, uh
, yeah, jonathan's just full oflike a million amazing ideas and
my, my mind just spins and thatfor talking to him.
I'm like man, we can do so manythings, but, but, yeah, I just
(31:19):
love working with the best ofthe best people and building a
company.
That's going to really changehow development's done and
that's something that excites me.
I want to build reallybeautiful buildings with great
architecture, and I want this tobe.
I want to build nationally, soI think that's going to be
(31:41):
happening pretty soon.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yeah, start with Texas.
And what about some othermarkets?
You kind of foresee yourselfgoing forward.
Is there any other markets?
You kind of just wherever theopportunity is.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, I well.
So I really like the Virginiamarket and that's kind of where
I started developing, but Idon't think the growth is there
to do the bigger projects.
You can find those one to threeacre sites and do really well
on them, but in Texas you canfind a 10, 20 acre site and do
better.
So I'm going to probably targetthese high growth markets and
(32:15):
target these assets.
A lot of developers are missingboth markets and target these
assets.
A lot of developers are missingand I'm thinking markets like
South Carolina.
I think Greenville's growingquite a bit.
I think North Carolina, likeparts around Charlotte are
growing very quick.
I really like a few differentcities in texas and a surprising
(32:43):
thing about texas is houston'suh, actually the fastest growing
city in texas.
Yeah, it's not um yeah, just bypopulation by percentage growth
it's probably going to be austin, because austin's a smaller
city, um but, and second afterthat is probably Dallas or Fort
worth.
They're growing really quick.
And then San Antonio and thenAustin's probably the slowest
(33:05):
growing city by population butfastest by percentage.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
So yeah, it's.
I just saw an article and itwas actually the last year.
I haven't seen the current onebut I don't know when they
publish or they calculate datafor the year, but I think of
eight or nine on the top 10fastest growing counties in the
entire United States of Americais in Texas and a lot of it's
within that, that whole littlecorridor between you, know.
You know, if you do that like alittle circle major cities it's
(33:32):
like, not like cause you're notlike West Texas in the middle of
nowhere, but like mainly aroundthe major cities, cause a lot
of people are coming.
It's you, you know people.
I know that Texas is one of themost advantageous, the best
pro-business states.
No state, is it?
No state?
Income tax too, as well that'swhat they're telling me.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
I, I, uh, I haven't had to pay state taxes yet, but
um, yeah, that's that's whatthey're telling me.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
So just yeah and yeah , good weather.
Uh just pro, just a lot ofpositives.
And you know, don't mess withTexas, it's just the slogan
school, school state, what is,uh, what are some kind of like,
uh, entrepreneurs or businessleaders that kind of gave you
inspiration.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Yeah, um, I, I met a lot of guys who were uh flipping
warehouses, um, when I was uh,probably about four or five
years ago, and that's whatreally inspired me, um, like
some really younger guys, likeRafiq Moore um, he's a really
good example and they were outof Minnesota and they, they
would just do these massivedeals.
They'd find like these five $10million buildings and they'd add
(34:35):
value to them and then they'dsell it and they'd make a huge
profit, um, kind of like what ahouse flipper would do.
Um, and I was just so surprisedthat people so young could be
doing something so big withtheir life.
Um, I, I'm not, uh, I I wantedto do something with a little
bit more purpose, so, and withsomething with a little bit of
art, and that's why I got indevelopment.
(34:58):
I want to do something big withdevelopment and have a uh, yeah
, just kind of have a permanentimpact on what buildings look
like, and that's something thatreally excites me, yeah that's
one of my favorite things when Igo to different cities and see
the architecture and the historyand the character that gives.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
You know, just like, uh, I like skyscrapers and
certain skylines are amazing,but it was just like everything
looks the exact same.
It needs some character andbrings a lot of curates and
emotion behind it, or it createsa feeling behind it when you
see it, puts your vibe behind,energy behind it.
So what, uh?
Where do you see yourself inthe next five years where you
(35:37):
kind of see the company going,where your goals are going?
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah, we're going to be probably building our niche
fleet and flex product.
We're targeting also marketswhere there's a lack of medical
office in retail and findingthose secondary markets that
have really great cap rates thatare growing very quick to build
those, and data centers that'sthat's the spot that excites me
(36:05):
the most and I might be pivotingall my energy towards data
centers pretty soon.
That's how much I like it.
Yeah, I see a tremendous amountof growth happening in Texas
and that's somewhere I wouldlike to be, but also Florida,
north Carolina, um in SouthCarolina.
Those are some other um spotsI'd like to see myself too.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
So yeah, and I agree with that.
It's and with entrepreneurship,it's always got to be stay
ahead of the current and trendsand everything is.
You know, the Flex space got anice run.
Then about data centers.
Looks like it's going to have agood 7, 10 year run.
It's kind of like getting intoif anybody gets into commercial
real estate it's always good.
(36:47):
Like 15 years ago it would havebeen great for, like, mobile
home parts and soft storage, andnow there's a center
consolidate and so you got tofind the next you know,
commercial real estate assetclass that actually has less
competition, more upside.
That's where the highestreturns and that's where it's
going to be.
You got to get those trendsearly.
You got to be ahead of thetrends, early adopters, before
(37:10):
the masses come in, because thenit becomes a lot more saturated
and you're buying down thedeals and paying more for the
property and then it can happenwhat would happen with a
multifamily everyone came intothe asset class and bid up the
prices and made the property asnot even valuable on the exit
because they bought too high.
And so what you're doing is theright ways, identifying the
(37:32):
opportunities that most overlook, creating a custom, creative
solution.
Back it up based on like, goodunderwriting, good fundamentals,
leaving leeway for anything.
If there's creating a customcreative solution, back it up
based on like, good underwriting, good fundamentals, leaving
leeway for anything.
If there's capex improvementsbecause you're finding these
deals, underwriting them andlike taking months see if that's
you need to find to make surethe deal makes sense, eliminate
those hassles and curves andthen you have an asset class
(37:54):
that makes really appealing toinvestors.
And the cool thing on top of itis your deals aren't these long
drawn-out projects.
You got a two-year timeline.
The one with the data centers.
You're not looking to developfrom the ground up.
You're looking forinfrastructure already developed
.
They can already handle it andthe city is going to make sure
the city can handle it.
The zoning transition and justlike these are the ways you win
(38:19):
in commercial real estate isbeing creative, not just in
raising rents and doing somecosmetic stuff.
It's being creative and findingthose deals and doing all these
little things in the back endto make the property a lot more
valuable on that other end.
So pretty fascinating stuff.
Uh, what else?
Is anything else you want tomention?
Like anything that's cool.
Yeah, coming up, you knowanything I know you want to
(38:39):
mention, like anything that'scool coming up.
I know you alluded to the factthat you know, or any other
things you want to like mention.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Yeah, I'm just really excited to start the New
Braunfels and Hutto project andI'm just really proud of my team
.
We've developed a verticallyintegrated team that's recession
proof and interest rate proofif interest rates go to the roof
because we can build reallycheap and we build a great
product.
We're going to be importingbeautiful windows, doors, side
(39:15):
paneling, all that stuff fromRomania, Poland, Ukraine, and
we're talking to factories inVietnam right now.
So we're going to be gettingsome of the best materials for a
great, great price and I'm justreally excited to see these
buildings turn out the way thatI envisioned them.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
So yeah, and that's the key is just having a
distinctive product anddistinguish you in the
marketplace.
Where can people find out moreabout you know your data centers
, your flex space, some of yourprojects you're doing.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yeah, a great spot is if you go on LinkedIn and
Google, Alec McElhaney orLandplay, you'll find me on
LinkedIn and just shoot me amessage.
You can also go on land-playcomand that's land-playcom.
If you're interested ininvesting in any of our deals,
and feel free to shoot me a textor call anytime.
(40:14):
My number is 202-774-7777.
And again, that's 202-774-7777.
And again that's 202-774-7777.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Yeah, and make sure people it's land-play, so it's
like make sure to add that inthere because, like Google, who
knows where Google's on theother way?
So, alec, thank you so much forbeing on the Ultra High Network
podcast.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Thanks for having me, jonathan, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Hey, it's Jonathan.
Make sure to download andlisten weekly as I bring the top
guests in the Ultra High NetWorth niche, sharing their best
insights and providing exclusiveresources.
Finally, I get a lot of peopleasking me to help them
one-on-one.
Yes, I can, but it's verylimited.
Go to a revenue ascend forbusiness and CMO consulting.
For real estate investing go tomidwestparkcapitalcom and those
(41:08):
looking to invest inservice-based business roll-ups
go to businesscashoutcom.
All links are included below.
Please like, comment and sharethis podcast with your friends.
Thanks for listening.
But my favorite asset class out of everything right
now is data centers and not justdata centers like a specific
niche in the data center worldthat I think everybody's kind of
skipping out on, and that'soffice reconversions.
There's a lot of officebuildings out there that have
(00:24):
access to a lot of power, thatalready have a UPS system, and
that's just like the backuppower if the power goes off.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome to the Ultra High Net Worth Podcast, which is
a global community of the mostsuccessful and their insights.
We want our families toflourish, collaborate and create
a better world for all.
This podcast is a trustedresource to learn from each
other, navigate the mostimportant global issues and find
life-changing opportunities.
I'm the host, jonathan Tuttle,the founder at Midwest Park
(00:58):
Capital, a boutique mobile homepark real estate fund.
Revenue Sun, a leading digitalconsulting and fractional CMO
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Business Cashout, a boutiqueM&A firm focused on
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(01:18):
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Enjoy the show, please likecomment.
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Thanks for listening.
Welcome back to the Ultra HighNetwork Podcast and today I have
a fantastic guest, alec Mahoneyfrom Landplay.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Thanks, Jonathan.
Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Perfect man.
So like we had a conversation,because you actually are doing
pretty some pretty fascinatingthings in the commercial real
estate world and realm includingsome very interesting niches.
First, you want to just give areal quick background.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah, I, my name is Alec McElhaney.
I was a math major in collegeand got into real estate,
started out in residential,bought my first duplex with an
FHA loan and just scaled fromthere.
I bought my first commercialbuilding about three or four
years ago in Minnesota and I gotinto developing about two,
(02:19):
three years ago.
Started out with FlexSpace andthis year I have around 250,000
feet going up.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Nice, love it, yeah.
And then let's talk about flexspace, cause that's kind of like
a hot topic right now.
Uh, what is it?
Who does it serve?
And like, what's the valuebehind it If you're an investor?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, um, so flex space is a uh, it's a very
underbuilt product in a lot ofmarkets right now.
It's small bay, industrial, alot of tenants, and these are
kind of like blue-collar tenantsthat we're after, like your
(03:01):
plumber, your HVAC, your granttenant, a gym, pet care, car
detailer, auto shop, anybodythat just needs a little bit of
space in an office.
And there's also a lot ofpeople that have a.
They already have an officespace, they already have a
warehouse, but they want to haveit in one spot, and that's what
FlexSpace solves You're able toget your office and your
warehouse in the same building.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So is it kind of like correct me if I'm wrong, I
actually know the answer.
But for the audience is it kindof like self-storage, kind of
like that, but for actualbusinesses, or is it kind of
like retail or a combination ofboth?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah, it's very similar.
It's a very similar metal typeof building self-storage and you
can pivot the product.
However, during COVID, a lot ofthe flex space was used to like
store masks and whatnot andsanitize and things like that,
and you can also use flex spaceto have a retail component to it
(04:00):
.
If you're building flex spaceon a major road, you can have
tenants who'll pay about two,three bucks a foot more.
Just have that road frontageand have their sign out front.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, so it gives you like the beauty of it is like
from a developer side of it is.
It gives you flexibility, asthe name implies, and it can be
very flexible to maneuver basedon what the market, current
market needs are, and especiallybecause it doesn't have a lot
of capex behind it so you can beflexible and what type of
tenants you could take, whichgives like a really different
perspective, because mostcommercial real estate you're
(04:33):
stuck with one.
Whatever you develop, it costsa lot to capex or you know, to
build out for, on the retail,for example, be pretty expensive
.
But, like at this, you gotpretty much open space and you
can just, you know, add what youneed and what you don't don't
need.
What are, um, tell me, one ofthe projects you're working on
right now in the flex spacerealm?
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, um, so we have a?
Uh, we have an 84,000 squarefoot development coming up.
Um, I just got a 10.7 acre siteunder contract a little bit
north of new bromfels and that'sright between san antonio and
austin, one of the fastest runcorridors in all of america.
There's around a million and ahalf people moving um between
(05:15):
those two cities in the next 10years and all the land is being
bought up.
Um, you have major developmentsgoing up all around.
You have the mayfairdevelopment.
Um, you have.
You have a Costco being put upright across the street, 10,000
homes that are coming to marketpretty soon within a quarter
mile of my property.
So it's just it's a boomingarea right now and there's,
(05:38):
honestly, it's hard to keep upwith the demand right now.
People want to live there.
But yeah, it's a 10.7 acre siteas a quarter mile of road
frontage on 35.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
And we're going to build it in two phases and we're
going to build seven around12,000 square foot buildings and
a little bit of outside storagetoo for tenants who need some
outside storage.
Love it.
And the cool thing is, like yousaid, and anything with real
estate it's about, obviously,property placement.
(06:10):
I-35 is one of the fastestgrowing, actually, between San
Antonio and Austin, is thatcorrect?
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, I think it's grown like crazy and the numbers
are pointing at around amillion and a half, maybe more
in the next 10 years.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So you got major road frontage on a major highway and
you have 10,000 homes.
So obviously if you're abusiness, small business owner,
you want to have all that influxof people coming in.
What is?
The average home has two kids,2.2 kids, and so you got 40,000,
50,000 people going to be rightadded into that approximately
(06:45):
that neighborhood.
Plus you have all the majornational retailers, which makes
it really attractive toinvestors and or you developing
it, because your location,location, location, real estate
and then obviously, with caprates, this is a property asset
class that has distinctiveadvantages compared to other
real estate.
Do you want to kind of give acouple examples of that?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
yeah, my favorite, uh , one of my favorite things
about flex space is that it'sreally easy to build um and a
lot of developers don't realizethis um, it's.
It's easier to build a 10 000square foot building than a 2
000 square foot house.
Um, and that might be a littlesurprising at first, but I use a
prefabricated metal for thebuildings and that's essentially
(07:31):
like a Lego set.
So the metal company will senda big package of metal parts and
they'll have instructions righton the parts how to put the
whole thing together, and youjust hire a metal erection crew
and they all have experience, uh, putting up those metal
buildings are all pretty similar.
So, um, and there's not a lotof things that go into it, you
(07:52):
need a little bit of plumbing,um, you need a little bit of
water, um, and some, maybe,maybe some three-phase power and
maybe some hvac, and it's justa metal box with, uh, just a few
utilities.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
so kind of reminisce of like self storage, but for a
tenant.
Yeah, that's a prettyfascinating fact because you
alluded to the fact, because mydad was a custom home builder
and he built like 75 customhomes small homes but uh, around
that size you mentioned that'sa lot of jobsites.
There always is a lot more goingon the foundation, the concrete
guy, then you have like, andit's just there always is a lot
(08:24):
more going on the foundation,the concrete guy, then you have
like, and it's just very thebuilding house it could take.
It's a long process because ofhow much you know, like all the
different processes and teampeople coming in.
So if you simplify the buildingprocess and this is a
commercial real estate assetclass, which is, uh, obviously
better because you actuallycontrol the value of the
property based on the rents,unlike single family house where
(08:46):
it's like make up number basedon comps in the area and you
can't control it based on, youknow, supply and demand.
But in a commercial state youactually can control a lot more
of the narrative, which makes alot more obviously attractive
and obviously a lot of familyoffices, private activists they
understand that dynamic, buttell me about um.
(09:07):
So you have that.
And then is there any otherprojects you can have a pipeline
that are kind of like prettyfascinating or interesting as
well we're fully funded for uh,um, our other site.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
So that's uh in huddle and that's a retail
development that'll be around100 000 feet and that project
will be about twice the size ofthe new broncos black space
project.
Um, and I'm really excitedabout that one um.
I this is my first timebuilding retail um, and we're
going to be doing uh, it'scalled concrete, pour in place
um, so you'll pour the wallslike on on your pad and then
(09:38):
you'll you'll tilt them right upum, and that's something I've
never done before.
But but one of my partners thatI'm partnering with, he's he's
built a lot of retail and hasdone a lot of that.
So I'm kind of leaning on himmore for the, the porn place and
the TI, so really excited tojust learn about retail and just
(09:59):
make a great product.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
So yeah, that sounds cool.
What about?
Is there any kind of um, likesome of these success stories
you've had based on or yourpartners have had based on, like
some past deals?
You can list a couple examplesyeah, um.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
So my first, um, my first warehouse.
I bought I think I bought itfor like 1.7 uh somewhere around
there and it's probably worthabout three million today um,
and just put the demising wallup, uh, fix up some bathrooms,
um, and then lease it out totenants and that's basically the
, the play with real estate.
Um, you, if you want to do valueadd, it's, it's all based off
(10:38):
the triple net lease and thecalvary.
Um, if you find a buildingthat's vacant, the bank can't
value that, can't give any valueto that and can't lend money on
it, so it's has a verydepressed value.
If you're able to buy one ofthose and fill it with tenants,
you're able to really change thevalue of that building.
And then I got into Flex spaceabout two, three years ago.
(11:01):
My first project was a an acresite and it was a 10,000 square
foot development and this was myuh, this is my first
development I've ever uh, tried.
Uh.
It was out in virginia, a littlebit south of dc, about 45
minutes south of dc, um, and Iwas looking for land for
(11:22):
probably about three monthsbefore that and I found this
piece of land.
It was one acre.
A lot of developers wereoverlooking it and I noticed a
few things about it.
There was a stormwatermanagement pond for the entire
park, which means that you don'tneed to build a stormwater
management pond.
Stormwater management ponds areexpensive to build and they
(11:46):
take up a lot of room.
So that was almost like $100K$150K saved right there.
The site had all the utilitiesI needed.
It had water and sewer, so Ididn't have to pay any extra or
deal with any risk of bringingutilities over.
The most important thing aboutthe site is that it had site
plans.
It had site plans for a flexbuilding for 10,000 square feet,
(12:11):
and, for those of you who arenot into developing, one of the
biggest risks with developmentis buying raw land and then
fighting the city or the countyto get it approved.
Some cities or counties cantake two, three years to get
approved.
Sometimes you'll never getapproved and you're just stuck
with land that's worth nothing.
But it was already approved andwe could start permits within a
(12:35):
month.
So I raised for a site that was30,000 feet right down the
street from that one, and thisis how I discovered what was
called retail flex space.
If you're able to find a sitethat should be a retail site but
(12:57):
might have something wrong withit, like there's not enough
sewer on the site for a retailproject or there aren't, they're
quite.
There, quite isn't enough.
Uh, cars going by every day um,I think a lot of retail sites
you know around like 30, 40 000cars going by a day and this one
only had like called seven,twelve thousand cars, something
like that.
(13:18):
Um, it's not.
It's not good enough for retail, but it it's perfect for flex
retail.
And that's a flex building andyou put a tenant in there who
just needs that road frontage,and that could be a granite
tenant or a plumber orelectrician who just wants
better visibility beyond abigger road.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Very cool.
Yeah, I mean that's.
I just like the beauty of likethe industry, because you are
that niche, because you canliterally maneuver based on what
industry comes in there.
What are?
What kind of makes you standout your projects, comparatively
say, or actually just say theniche in general?
What are kind of the moreadvantages if somebody is
looking to invest or looking toget into flex space?
(14:00):
How does different?
What are some of the pros andcons compared to other ethnic
classes?
Speaker 1 (14:05):
yeah, um, so I'll.
I'll compare against themulti-family, uh, the
multi-family guys, because thoseare probably the most popular
razors.
Um, and a lot of you listeningto this probably know that
multi-family guys are in a lotof trouble.
Um, they all went to thesemindset conferences and didn't
(14:26):
really do their homework andjust raise a bunch of money and
bought something that theyprobably should have shouldn't
have bought.
I was just talking to a guy amonth ago, a pretty, pretty
famous guy.
If I said his name, everybodywould recognize who he is.
He, he bought a multifamilybuilding out in Austin for $70
(14:47):
million and today it's for $35million and he's going to have
to default on it and lose allthe investor capital, and that's
a risk with investing in thesemultifamily guys.
A lot of them don't really knowwhat they're doing and they're
just following the herd.
And if you're in development,you want to do the opposite.
You want to find what everybodyelse is attaching, and that's
(15:11):
that's what FlexSpace is.
A lot of people aren't touchingFlexSpace and I'm I'm I'm
finding deals that are moreniche than FlexSpace.
So I'm focusing on Flex retailor Flex Flex and outdoor storage
, and I don't.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I don't see any developers touching those and I
see demand for that super, superhigh so, yeah, like that,
because, uh, multifamily is agreat example because there's a
lot of people invest in it.
I think 70 offices do a lot ofpeople place.
I could consider the safe betthe time that comes down to the
operators.
And, like I said, like I thinka lot of people bought in 2021,
(15:47):
2020, when the cap rates werelow and the whole plan was keep
raising around, keep raisingrents, and when the cap rates or
that cap rates, but theinterest rates were low sorry,
yeah, the cap rates were low too, but, um, but the interest
rates were obviously spiked andthen they can't write.
And then, with the economychanging, and then they, they
can't raise the rents and so alot of people, the properties I
thought they keep raising rentsand that was a play.
(16:10):
Just buy a deal and like, oh,just double the rents.
You know it's cheaper to dothat and add some amenities and
say it's class b, go from classc to b or b to a, just by
throwing in, you know, a gym anda pool, or upgrading some of
the stuff in the amenities floorand throwing in some stainless
steel appliances, but thenpeople just got priced out and
(16:31):
downsized a lot.
So, uh, it's pretty fascinating.
I remember there was a story toyour point.
There was a, an operator Ithink I was out of texas too.
He was just buying deals and hewasn't like really a real
estate guy but he had like areally big network.
I don't know like, oh, this, wejust raised this and people
handed money because it was kindof like, and he was buying
(16:53):
deals and I think every dealthis is about a year ago and all
the deals were and they werebig deals or like 75 million,
100 million dollar property, itwas like three or four in a row
and he just let him go.
He didn't know how to run them,he didn't know how to operate
them, and so, to your point,yeah, like it's comes down to
the team having experienced team, people didn't actually know
the real estate game.
Uh, yeah, that's.
And to your point, there'sanother thing.
(17:14):
There's a lot of people thatjust started like all of a
sudden.
I think they were inspired by,like grand cardones and stuff
like that.
Like, oh, like, just buy amultiamily, it doesn't care if
you have any background in realestate.
Like, we both have a littleextensive background in real
estate.
It's like we had to go throughthe whole process to learn real
estate.
These people like listened to acouple you know social media
(17:35):
posts and they think they knowthe industry based on, you know
some influencer on social mediatalking about just buy this
class, and then they get raisedmoney and buy bad deals because
they don't actually know how tounderwrite the property, how to
run it, how to manage it and allthe nuances of actually real
estate, what it entails inday-to-day operations.
So yeah, it's prettyfascinating what happened, it's
(17:55):
transpired last couple years inthat regard.
Um, and then also, what do youthink where do you see flex
space over the next five years,like, where do you kind of see
it?
Do you think it's becoming moremainstream?
Do you think where do you seeFlexBase over the next five
years?
Like, where do you kind of seeit?
Do you think it's becoming moremainstream?
Do you think it's going tostill be kind of low key where
people don't know about it, ordo you think it's starting to
get into traction?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I so about two, three years ago I wouldn't be
building FlexBase out inIndustrial Park, far away from
like, not on a major road orwithout outside storage, and I
would be completely fine.
I just wouldn't be doing thatright now because I see other
developers like starting to perka lot of the multifamily guys
too who like to follow crowds.
Those guys are perking up theirheads and moving into this.
(18:36):
So I'm already shifting to amore niched flex build out and
that's the flex retail and alsoflex outdoor storage, and that
just means you put up a metalbuilding and maybe have an acre,
two acres of outside storage,and that's a very high demand
product and you can't findenough of it.
If you talk to any broker intown, they're just turning
(18:59):
people away.
They're like I'm sorry, I can't, we can't find any buildings
available like that, and that'sthe type of product you want to
build.
You want to build somethingthat everybody wants, that
people pay premium for, andthat's that's what I, that's
what I'm focusing on and I seethat being a great play in the
next three years and I think alot of developers are going to
(19:19):
be missing that one.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, and what I also like to see is developing has
always been the highest returnin real estate.
And so you know like, yeah,from real estate development
background, it's always a loteasier because you're like, if
you have your, you know you gotyour costs down, you have the
team, you know how to execute it.
It's a lot better than tryingto find, you know, turnaround
property and then there's alwaysa variable that don't pop up.
(19:42):
Then the capex sheet they justassume to there's always hidden
projects and things and turnaround property, especially like
in certain asset classes whereyou don't see it and you have to
assume that there's gonna behidden cost and then those end
up being the curveballs thatkill a lot of the returns.
And so development gives youthat flexibility to get those
returns and the cash and cash isworks and really high, for
(20:09):
example, out of some of thereturns you are seeing or some
of the projects returns you kindof speculate to see.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
So for my investors, we are, uh, giving them a 12
prof and then we're targeting a22 irr and I think that's going
to be a pretty easy number tohit honestly.
Um, because we we're focusingon a product that nobody else is
building and we're able tobuild a lot cheaper than most
people.
We GC a lot of our projectsourselves and we're vertically
(20:35):
integrated and we're hungry andwe're focused.
That's all I do, like I only dodevelopment.
If you talk to other developers, they got an Amazon business,
they got you know a few otherbusinesses and they're chasing
after a bunch of different assetclasses and you start talking
to them about just one assetclass and they don't really know
(20:57):
all that much.
So it's the competition outhere in Texas.
It's not very hard to beat thecompetition honestly if you're
focused and you're hungry andyou're vertically integrated and
what's think.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
For some people that's a 12 prep like an average
fund.
What do you, what do youtypically see?
An average fund like seven,eight, ten percent Max usually
yeah, I would.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
I would probably say, um, I would get somewhere
around seven.
Eight percent is prior topeople, and then probably 12-15%
for your targeted IRR.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
So this is almost almost double yeah, that's
insane and you're in like one ofthe fastest growing markets,
which also makes it reallyappealing to the asset.
What's kind of the point forthe long term like are you going
to exit, keep it, cash, cashout, refi.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Yeah, so we were targeting to have the project.
We're targeting thatconstruction will be done within
12 to 14 months and then youhave to.
You have to lease it out for alittle bit.
After that, it should be prettyeasy to sell the project within
24 months and that's ourtargeted exit date.
So 22% IRR over two years, andthen we'll either yeah, we'll
(22:12):
either sell it or we'llrefinance it and buy investors
out of that market rate.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And some of the other things you mentioned before, as
you're looking to be creativeand going to where a lot of
people aren't going.
What are some other assetclasses that you're looking to
be creative and going to where alot of people aren't going?
Uh, what are some other assetclasses that are that you're
looking to explore in the nearfuture?
Speaker 1 (22:30):
yeah, um, I, I like land.
Land is pretty cool.
Um, you can entitle it or youcan land bank, like, wait for
utilities to come over it.
Um, and entitling just means,uh, just get it ready for the
developer.
Um, like it's, it's a turnkeypiece of land that you can sell
to a developer and they can juststart building and that that
developer will pay quite thepremium for that, because it
(22:52):
takes away a lot of the risk andit's really easy to raise for.
Um, but my favorite asset classout of everything right now is
data centers, and not just datacenters like a, a specific niche
in the data center world that Ithink everybody's kind of
skipping out on, and that'soffice reconversions.
There's a lot of officebuildings out there that have
(23:21):
access to a lot of power, thatalready have a UPS system and
that's just like the backuppower if the power goes off, and
generators.
They already have that, theyalready have access to a lot of
power and they're already veryconnected and pretty close to a
carrier hotel.
You can find a lot of them andthat's a great candidate for a
(23:46):
data center and some of theseoffice buildings we're seeing
can get access to almost like100 megawatts of power and have
yeah, just have like a lot ofextra land available to build
out a campus.
So that's kind of what I'mtargeting right now.
We're looking for officebuildings like between 20 to
(24:10):
call 50 million that can getaccess to 20, 30 megawatts plus
of power in the next two yearsand just like a quick turnaround
data center.
And I really like those,because these hyperscale sites,
they're really interesting andthey're really big numbers.
You're sometimes hearing aboutgigawatt sized hyperscale sites
(24:32):
which are in the billions ofdollars, which is that's awesome
, but it's going to take areally long time to get power to
that site because, um, um,there's a delay with
transformers right now and alsofor those uh, bigger, uh, those
bigger generators here.
It just takes a little bit toget those.
Um, and then, depending on whatcounty or city you're in,
(24:55):
you're going to be fighting this.
You're going to be fightinguphill battle to get your data
center approved, um, where theseoffice buildings, um, they
might already be in a zoneapproved for data centers.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
so yeah, that's a lot of good points there and I'll
recap that it reminds megigawatts back to the future.
Yeah, the um.
A couple good points becauseright now they have office
buildings are going for realsteep discounts you're seeing in
some of these major cities andeverywhere because people start
working online or workingremotely after the COVID and
(25:29):
more office builds over bills.
You're getting the assetpre-built with the powers, like
all of the infrastructure, andit can handle it for a fraction.
Penny isn't a dollar and citieswant to work with you too
because it's an eyesore.
They want to collect revenue.
They were used to collectingrevenue tax in real estate,
exactly taxes, now moreincentivized to pay.
(25:54):
We're going to recover this andit's going to help, you know,
bring revenue.
So the city is going to like it.
So you have that.
You have you're eliminating alot of that development phase
three you're also not goingafter the ultra, ultra big
projects.
I just saw an article yesterdayor today.
Was that?
Uh, even if you really chase areally large money, if you go to
(26:16):
the family office conference,you study what's going on with
the ultra wealthy, uh, they'lltry, not worth, uh, even.
Uh, zuckerberg's gonna developa data center because he wants
to stay ahead of it becauseobviously he's got his
infrastructure and his aicomponents and you know, based
like met, on all the other sapps and assets he owns.
But it's gonna be bigger.
(26:37):
His data center's supposed tobe bigger than the size of
Manhattan, to your point.
Uh, I don't know what thatmeans if it's like, like in
terms of square footage orbuilding size or whatever.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Obviously, it's crazy , I never heard that that is
awesome.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I'll send you the article after I just saw it
today.
Or is it gonna be like, I don'tknow, he's gonna buy a small
island with his money who knowsand then build out the
infrastructure, but it's gonnabe a long project.
So you want to be to move, getfirst moment's advantage, quick
turnaround, investors get paid.
The deal is not supercomplicated, uh, but you're also
(27:11):
serving a huge need with,obviously, you know everything
with ai and data usage andquantum computing and all that
stuff coming on.
You know as it's evolving intothat space and how much data is
just going forward.
Um, and streaming.
Everything uses so much shadow.
So it's gonna be prettyfascinating to be and find that
little niche that most peoplewill look.
It kind of goes back to yourmentioned how you're being
(27:33):
creative with the, the flexspace and find those niches that
people kind of overlook givesyou like a competitive and
distinct advantage.
Uh, it's pretty, it's prettysmart.
I like it.
It's pretty cool.
Like I kind of navigate that andum, yeah, the other side is
pretty fascinating and I, youknow I've been traveling here
for the last few months and datacenters always like kind of the
highlight of the city.
(27:53):
City is like they might notlike develop it, but when they
do approve it, they do like kindof there, like hey, we have a
data center, because it kind ofshows that they're a tech board
city or you know, they'relooking to the future.
So, um, what kind of feedbackare you hearing from investors
in regards to data centers?
Are they who's the type ofdemographic words and what's
kind of returns on a deal likethat?
(28:14):
Because it's you know you talkabout these huge deals but, like
I know, do you guys have somenumbers in mind or what's?
Speaker 1 (28:25):
kind of like some data about that.
Yeah, the data center deals thenumbers of them are pretty
crazy.
Um, the the multiples on yourmoney is going to be really high
.
Um, I don't know what type ofirR that investors could get
from them, and I haven't put adata center deal together quite
(28:46):
yet.
We're getting pretty close toclosing on or getting a couple
sites under contract.
We have a couple SMEs workingfor us.
That's a great question I like.
Will it be?
Like?
Will the target be at a valueadd um IRR, or will it be at a
development IRR?
Um, I, I think the numbers arethere to do higher than both.
(29:09):
Honestly, and that's probablywhat we're we'll settle on.
So, um, cause, we were, we're,we're thinking long-term growth
Um, um, we want to get a few ofthese uh going this year, next
year, um, and if we can find afew family offices to partner
with, um, we don't mind sharingthe, sharing the wealth at all.
We, we think that there's somuch opportunity that everybody
(29:30):
could win.
So, and there's a huge needit's a, there's a huge need um
for data centers in any way thatwe can help that out.
Um, I just want to be part ofthat.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, I mean, obviously we know AI has taken
over the world the last coupleof years and it takes so much
computing power to you know it'spretty fascinating.
But it's so fascinating likewhen you type in something in AI
, like how fast and how many,like how it searches the
internet and find so manyanswers.
It's pretty fascinating.
Um, what kind of investors are?
(30:01):
You said family offices,private equity, institutional
cyber wealth funds?
Is that kind of like some ofthe demographics you're looking
at tap into?
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, it's probably gonna be bigger, bigger
investors.
I'm not sure what the minimumwill be, but probably at least a
million for those.
Um, maybe closer to 5 million.
I would love to find just a fewfamily offices to work with for
the data centers, and a greatway to build a relationship up
with us is to invest in one ofour deals right now.
(30:33):
That's a great way to start therelationship with us.
But yeah, I see a lot of growthwith the data center.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, that's, that's cool and what are some of the?
What are the things you're kindof looking forward to do
besides real estate?
What's kind of some things youshould have as years right now.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
I recently just got comfortable saying this to
people I don't.
I don't have any hobbies.
I like working.
Um, uh, I love talking toreally smart, uh, brilliant
people.
Um, whenever I uh, I'm talkingto Jonathan on the phone, um, uh
, yeah, jonathan's just full oflike a million amazing ideas and
my, my mind just spins and thatfor talking to him.
I'm like man, we can do so manythings, but, but, yeah, I just
(31:19):
love working with the best ofthe best people and building a
company.
That's going to really changehow development's done and
that's something that excites me.
I want to build reallybeautiful buildings with great
architecture, and I want this tobe.
I want to build nationally, soI think that's going to be
(31:41):
happening pretty soon.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yeah, start with Texas.
And what about some othermarkets?
You kind of foresee yourselfgoing forward.
Is there any other markets?
You kind of just wherever theopportunity is.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, I well.
So I really like the Virginiamarket and that's kind of where
I started developing, but Idon't think the growth is there
to do the bigger projects.
You can find those one to threeacre sites and do really well
on them, but in Texas you canfind a 10, 20 acre site and do
better.
So I'm going to probably targetthese high growth markets and
(32:15):
target these assets.
A lot of developers are missingboth markets and target these
assets.
A lot of developers are missingand I'm thinking markets like
South Carolina.
I think Greenville's growingquite a bit.
I think North Carolina, likeparts around Charlotte are
growing very quick.
I really like a few differentcities in texas and a surprising
(32:43):
thing about texas is houston'suh, actually the fastest growing
city in texas.
Yeah, it's not um yeah, just bypopulation by percentage growth
it's probably going to be austin, because austin's a smaller
city, um but, and second afterthat is probably Dallas or Fort
worth.
They're growing really quick.
And then San Antonio and thenAustin's probably the slowest
(33:05):
growing city by population butfastest by percentage.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
So yeah, it's.
I just saw an article and itwas actually the last year.
I haven't seen the current onebut I don't know when they
publish or they calculate datafor the year, but I think of
eight or nine on the top 10fastest growing counties in the
entire United States of Americais in Texas and a lot of it's
within that, that whole littlecorridor between you, know.
You know, if you do that like alittle circle major cities it's
(33:32):
like, not like cause you're notlike West Texas in the middle of
nowhere, but like mainly aroundthe major cities, cause a lot
of people are coming.
It's you, you know people.
I know that Texas is one of themost advantageous, the best
pro-business states.
No state, is it?
No state?
Income tax too, as well that'swhat they're telling me.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
I, I, uh, I haven't had to pay state taxes yet, but
um, yeah, that's that's whatthey're telling me.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
So just yeah and yeah , good weather.
Uh just pro, just a lot ofpositives.
And you know, don't mess withTexas, it's just the slogan
school, school state, what is,uh, what are some kind of like,
uh, entrepreneurs or businessleaders that kind of gave you
inspiration.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Yeah, um, I, I met a lot of guys who were uh flipping
warehouses, um, when I was uh,probably about four or five
years ago, and that's whatreally inspired me, um, like
some really younger guys, likeRafiq Moore um, he's a really
good example and they were outof Minnesota and they, they
would just do these massivedeals.
They'd find like these five $10million buildings and they'd add
(34:35):
value to them and then they'dsell it and they'd make a huge
profit, um, kind of like what ahouse flipper would do.
Um, and I was just so surprisedthat people so young could be
doing something so big withtheir life.
Um, I, I'm not, uh, I I wantedto do something with a little
bit more purpose, so, and withsomething with a little bit of
art, and that's why I got indevelopment.
(34:58):
I want to do something big withdevelopment and have a uh, yeah
, just kind of have a permanentimpact on what buildings look
like, and that's something thatreally excites me, yeah that's
one of my favorite things when Igo to different cities and see
the architecture and the historyand the character that gives.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
You know, just like, uh, I like skyscrapers and
certain skylines are amazing,but it was just like everything
looks the exact same.
It needs some character andbrings a lot of curates and
emotion behind it, or it createsa feeling behind it when you
see it, puts your vibe behind,energy behind it.
So what, uh?
Where do you see yourself inthe next five years where you
(35:37):
kind of see the company going,where your goals are going?
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah, we're going to be probably building our niche
fleet and flex product.
We're targeting also marketswhere there's a lack of medical
office in retail and findingthose secondary markets that
have really great cap rates thatare growing very quick to build
those, and data centers that'sthat's the spot that excites me
(36:05):
the most and I might be pivotingall my energy towards data
centers pretty soon.
That's how much I like it.
Yeah, I see a tremendous amountof growth happening in Texas
and that's somewhere I wouldlike to be, but also Florida,
north Carolina, um in SouthCarolina.
Those are some other um spotsI'd like to see myself too.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
So yeah, and I agree with that.
It's and with entrepreneurship,it's always got to be stay
ahead of the current and trendsand everything is.
You know, the Flex space got anice run.
Then about data centers.
Looks like it's going to have agood 7, 10 year run.
It's kind of like getting intoif anybody gets into commercial
real estate it's always good.
(36:47):
Like 15 years ago it would havebeen great for, like, mobile
home parts and soft storage, andnow there's a center
consolidate and so you got tofind the next you know,
commercial real estate assetclass that actually has less
competition, more upside.
That's where the highestreturns and that's where it's
going to be.
You got to get those trendsearly.
You got to be ahead of thetrends, early adopters, before
(37:10):
the masses come in, because thenit becomes a lot more saturated
and you're buying down thedeals and paying more for the
property and then it can happenwhat would happen with a
multifamily everyone came intothe asset class and bid up the
prices and made the property asnot even valuable on the exit
because they bought too high.
And so what you're doing is theright ways, identifying the
(37:32):
opportunities that most overlook, creating a custom, creative
solution.
Back it up based on like, goodunderwriting, good fundamentals,
leaving leeway for anything.
If there's creating a customcreative solution, back it up
based on like, good underwriting, good fundamentals, leaving
leeway for anything.
If there's capex improvementsbecause you're finding these
deals, underwriting them andlike taking months see if that's
you need to find to make surethe deal makes sense, eliminate
those hassles and curves andthen you have an asset class
(37:54):
that makes really appealing toinvestors.
And the cool thing on top of itis your deals aren't these long
drawn-out projects.
You got a two-year timeline.
The one with the data centers.
You're not looking to developfrom the ground up.
You're looking forinfrastructure already developed
.
They can already handle it andthe city is going to make sure
the city can handle it.
The zoning transition and justlike these are the ways you win
(38:19):
in commercial real estate isbeing creative, not just in
raising rents and doing somecosmetic stuff.
It's being creative and findingthose deals and doing all these
little things in the back endto make the property a lot more
valuable on that other end.
So pretty fascinating stuff.
Uh, what else?
Is anything else you want tomention?
Like anything that's cool.
Yeah, coming up, you knowanything I know you want to
(38:39):
mention, like anything that'scool coming up.
I know you alluded to the factthat you know, or any other
things you want to like mention.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Yeah, I'm just really excited to start the New
Braunfels and Hutto project andI'm just really proud of my team
.
We've developed a verticallyintegrated team that's recession
proof and interest rate proofif interest rates go to the roof
because we can build reallycheap and we build a great
product.
We're going to be importingbeautiful windows, doors, side
(39:15):
paneling, all that stuff fromRomania, Poland, Ukraine, and
we're talking to factories inVietnam right now.
So we're going to be gettingsome of the best materials for a
great, great price and I'm justreally excited to see these
buildings turn out the way thatI envisioned them.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
So yeah, and that's the key is just having a
distinctive product anddistinguish you in the
marketplace.
Where can people find out moreabout you know your data centers
, your flex space, some of yourprojects you're doing.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yeah, a great spot is if you go on LinkedIn and
Google, Alec McElhaney orLandplay, you'll find me on
LinkedIn and just shoot me amessage.
You can also go on land-playcomand that's land-playcom.
If you're interested ininvesting in any of our deals,
and feel free to shoot me a textor call anytime.
(40:14):
My number is 202-774-7777.
And again, that's 202-774-7777.
And again that's 202-774-7777.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Yeah, and make sure people it's land-play, so it's
like make sure to add that inthere because, like Google, who
knows where Google's on theother way?
So, alec, thank you so much forbeing on the Ultra High Network
podcast.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Thanks for having me, jonathan, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Hey, it's Jonathan.
Make sure to download andlisten weekly as I bring the top
guests in the Ultra High NetWorth niche, sharing their best
insights and providing exclusiveresources.
Finally, I get a lot of peopleasking me to help them
one-on-one.
Yes, I can, but it's verylimited.
Go to a revenue ascend forbusiness and CMO consulting.
For real estate investing go tomidwestparkcapitalcom and those
(41:08):
looking to invest inservice-based business roll-ups
go to businesscashoutcom.
All links are included below.
Please like, comment and sharethis podcast with your friends.
Thanks for listening.
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