March 24, 2025 • 40 mins
The Tramp and Elle are joined by a very special guest who is involved in three different ENM worlds that rarely collide.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Elle (00:06):
Welcome back to unapologetic swingers.
I'm l
Tramp (00:09):
and I'm the tramp I just want to thank you guys for
coming along on this journeywith us.
And really, a quick littletidbit about us is we're just
combining our Experiences to thelifestyle and talking about it.
Realistically, the highs, thelows and everything in between.
Elle (00:29):
As we have been looking for new topics to talk about and
people to interview the The bestpart that we've had is, looking
to friends that we have and thatwe've met through our
experiences in the lifestyle andat the ranch or at a party and
(00:49):
ones that we find justfascinating and, we think would
offer a lot.
stories to people who might benew to the lifestyle or in it
for a while, but maybe hit alull or just hearing somebody's
story and having more of anunderstanding of what someone
(01:10):
else has gone through.
So I would like to introduce ourgood friend cat and we got to
know cat.
She's been doing fairly well inthis last year.
Just one of those, again, seeingpeople over and over again,
talking, getting to know eachother more, and really enjoying
(01:30):
their company and things thatthey have to say.
And she has just been a reallygreat friend to get to know over
this last year.
Cat (01:40):
Thank you.
Elle (01:41):
Welcome.
Welcome, Kat.
It's been
Cat (01:42):
nice getting to know you too.
And for having me.
for having me.
Elle (01:48):
Well, so what we were thinking is maybe we could just
spend a few minutes talkingabout how you got into the
lifestyle and what made youdecide that this was something
you wanted to do at this pointin your life?
Cat (2) (02:04):
So I was in a completely monogamous marriage
and prior to that relationshipfor 27 years.
And when that relationshipdissolved, this was at the end
of 2019, I went on a journey toexplore a lot of different
(02:28):
things.
But I was coming from arelationship where the last
multiple years had had nophysical contact whatsoever.
Tramp (2) (02:36):
Yeah.
Cat (2) (02:37):
And I truly believed that.
I just did not have thosedesires.
I did not have any interest orlibido or anything like that.
And so, when I did separate andultimately divorced, I was
(02:58):
exploring.
I was in full exploration mode.
And I went through a period oftime that I think is fairly
typical where I was a bit of akid in a candy store.
Yes, yes, yes.
I tried that flavor and maybeseveral flavors at the same
time.
You know, all the things.
(03:19):
And went a little bit, I'm notgoing to say crazy, but I was
definitely realizing that Iabsolutely absolutely.
I just needed to be in adifferent context, so this
matches up with some otherthings that I've heard in terms
of timing with people who havespoken on your podcast, this is
all going down, right?
(03:39):
As COVID is hitting, so, yeah,so I was, dating a little bit
and meeting different people,clicked in with a person that I
met in the Springs and wasactually meeting.
dating, dating this person andthen COVID hits and we're
basically locked down at thatpoint.
And I'm not getting to see thisperson at all.
(04:01):
We're just talking online forthe most part, barely have met
even.
But once we did meet, it becamethe first significant
relationship that I had outsideof where I had come from.
He was previously in thelifestyle with his ex wife.
I kind of knew some things justbased on, actually based on
(04:27):
another person who you alsoknow.
Funny how that works.
Small world.
But I hadn't done anyexploration in terms of the
lifestyle.
He suggested to me, if you everwant to explore, we can go to
these places together if youwant to, we can, see if we can
connect with other people.
This is the first person whointroduced me to the fact that
(04:49):
places like the Scarlet Ranchand Montchelet existed, and, I
was listening very attentivelyto all of this, thinking, well,
that sounds Interesting.
You know, I
Tramp (04:58):
was going to say, what was your knee jerk reaction?
Because oftentimes coming from aplace of monogamy, the knee jerk
without even thinking about itis going to say no, no, but you,
you weren't a much difference.
Cat (2) (05:14):
I want something more.
Yeah.
And that's, I mean, that was oneof the first indications for me,
for myself was that.
When he's telling me about thesethings very tentatively, to see
how I react to them, I'm notsaying absolutely not.
I'm saying tell me more.
It's curiosity.
It's openness.
Openness, for sure.
So, he and I ended up, longstory short, we ended up meeting
(05:37):
a couple at a play apartmentthat they had exclusively for
that purpose.
So, This was my firstexperience.
This man and I had been datingfor a few months at that point,
met this couple at theirapartment, and they had actually
invited another single maleover.
And it turned into the mostdelightful afternoon, where I
(05:59):
got to be the center ofattention, and it was just
completely fluid and easy andfun, and I came out of it
saying, okay, well, I found mypeople, right?
What do we do next?
Yeah.
What's next?
And the couple that we had metthere were like, well, you guys
must have been doing this for areally long time.
You're so comfortable and easytogether.
(06:19):
And he, he said to them, this isthe first time she's been out
the gate and they're going tointerject
Tramp (06:26):
just for a second.
It's funny.
How so many of us, when we havethat great experience, and it
doesn't have to be, an actualplay session, but whether it's
just going to Sunday Funday orsomething like that, and all of
a sudden it dawns on you, it'slike, I found my people.
Right.
Elle (06:43):
Yes.
Right.
How
Tramp (06:44):
most lifestyle folks, they're some of the most caring,
friendly.
Yes.
You know, people I've ever metand quite frankly, that's why I
prefer them over my vanillafriends.
Elle (06:53):
Cause you can talk to them about anything.
You have an understanding forwhat the other is going through.
And I have found that those arethe people that are truly there
for you without judgment becausewe don't judge.
Cat (2) (07:05):
Absolutely.
So we didn't actually ever dothat again.
I was with that person for aboutsix months, but I decided after
that first experience, In myinfinite wisdom, that the ideal
situation for me would be tohave a girlfriend, and a
boyfriend, and a couple.
And I could have all three ofthose things, and then my life
(07:26):
would be perfect.
Well, that's a lot harder thanit sounds.
So, I've almost gotten to thatpoint a couple times, but it's
too much.
But what became very clear tome, As I started exploring,
okay, what does this mean?
And I'm not a big fan of labels,but they're useful.
They serve a purpose.
(07:47):
I am absolutely Polly.
Elle (07:50):
You can love multiple people at any one time.
Cat (2) (07:52):
Yeah, but I'm also, sometimes I'm entirely by
myself.
I do classify myself.
If you have to look at it thatway as solo Polly in that, if it
comes down to it, I'm going to.
Probably choose the relationshipwith myself over all these other
things, partly because it justgets too chaotic, but it became
(08:13):
very clear to me that Polly waswhere I was.
So I would say kind of like adouble major in Polly and kink
with a minor in swing.
Okay.
So that's actually, I love that.
It's like, that's actually the,lower part of the the diagram
for me, I guess.
Open to it.
It's fun when it happens.
(08:33):
Yeah.
So it's not your driving force.
It's not.
Elle (08:37):
So the driving force is the poly relationships that
having multiple closerelationships with one or more
people.
that are all involved to eachother.
And then you had mentioned thatyou are into kink.
And I think what we're findingover the years, you are either
kink or swing and they canoverlap, but it isn't
(09:01):
necessarily an overlap.
So tell us how that fits intoyour world.
Cat (2) (09:06):
I think that, well, as we've talked about, it's
different for everybody, but Thekink piece is something else
that I figured out very earlyon.
And it is something that ishardwired, almost, for me.
So, that piece of it, I don'tthink that there's not an
overlap with the swing piece.
(09:27):
But at the same time, the natureof the relationships within
kink, If that's genuinely whereyou are, don't necessarily lend
themselves to the same kind ofrelationships you get in typical
swinger lifestyle relationshipsjust because of the power
dynamics and the different kindof trust and different kind of
(09:47):
communication that's involved.
I was going to say
Tramp (09:50):
I feel that in the lifestyle it does tend to be a
lot more fluid.
Sometimes up to chance, whereasin the kink community, Correct
me if I'm wrong, but you have ascene and it's very, it's almost
like it's scripted we're goingto be doing this today.
Cat (2) (10:07):
So for us, it's, it's definitely not scripted.
It's open the bag and see wherethings go.
Okay.
Well, and that's part of therelationship.
What happens during the scene?
depends on the signals that mypartner is getting from me.
And he may change entirely whathe was planning on doing based
(10:31):
on the way I'm reacting.
Or, and this is an interestingthing in terms of being at the
ranch or somewhere else whereyou're in an open play
situation.
If.
He's getting energy from the waythat people are reacting to
what's going on in the scene.
He may change things based onthat.
(10:52):
As his sub, as the bottom, mostof the time I am completely
oblivious to what's going on inthe room.
I don't know that there arepeople around me until
afterwards or if they're beingreally loud.
I'm just working with whateverhe's Giving me and it does
change every time.
Okay,
Elle (11:10):
so Jay and I happen to Be watching the other night when
the two of you were doing ascene With actually a new couple
that had only been to the ranchonce before so we did find
ourselves Kind of explainingsome of the things because I
think the initial Thought is,oh, that's impact on her.
Is that hurting her?
(11:30):
And so explaining actually, no,it's not.
But would you mind just taking amoment and walking us through
just a basic scene that youmight find yourself in?
Cat (2) (11:43):
So a pretty typical scene.
I am restrained to usuallyacross sometimes something
else's banking bench, whateverhappens to be available.
A cabana, you know, whatever hasa hard point in it.
A hard point being somewherewhere it is safe for me to be
(12:04):
attached to it in some waywithout injuring myself and
without the whole thingcollapsing and people getting
hurt.
Yes.
And we will have multipledifferent implements that are
set out that may or may not beused and Usually there will be a
short period of warm up whereI'm actually being touched in a
(12:28):
way with bamboo or with somekind of a cane or something like
that to actually warm up theblood vessels in my skin.
Elle (12:37):
And that's when you see your skin start pinking up a
little bit.
You can tell it doesn't hurtyou, it's more of just a thwack
thwack.
For lack of a better term forit, that's what I hear.
I think that's a technical term.
Yeah, sure.
And, and you can see your, skinstarting to pink up and get
sensitive.
And then, so you've got allthose little endorphins out on
(12:59):
the outside of your skin so thatyou can start receiving.
Cat (2) (13:02):
And it's 100 percent sensory for me.
I am completely touch motivated.
That's one of the things that.
Made it clear that this was agood thing for me.
It's therapeutic, that's a wordthat you used the other night,
actually.
When I am in that space, it'slike getting the best massage on
the planet with a person thatyou care deeply about.
(13:23):
So, it's, kind of magical.
You go from that point whereyour skin is getting warmed up,
basically and then my partnerwill go through a series of
different implements could beLeather floggers could be metal
floggers.
I have a thing about metal.
So, there's always metalinvolved.
But he usually alternates theimpact implements that he's
(13:47):
using with other sensory devicesthat may be temperature that may
cool down my skin after he'sbeen flogging me.
Or that may hypersensitize myskin after he's been flogging
me.
And it is, because we've beendoing this for as long as we've
been doing it, he can tellexactly what he's gonna get from
(14:14):
certain implements.
So, yeah, he'll alternate theactual impact with different
sensory toys.
It's kind of an arc, so he willstart with things that are a bit
less impactful and get harderand harder and harder and then
come back down.
And then when we're finished, hewill take me down and get me to
(14:35):
a space where he knows that Ican get some aftercare if I need
it, can curl up and even get ablanket or whatever I need and
kind of decompress.
So it's, very much sort of acycle of healing almost for me.
Like what you saw this pastweek, I'd had a crap week and he
(14:55):
knew it and he took care of it.
And then it was better.
Elle (15:00):
Well, I like when I see he will use.
an instrument on you and you seeyour skin is pink and then he
will very gently take his handand brush that along you like to
just kind of calm that sensationdown for just a moment or just
make you feel different andready to transition into the
(15:22):
next one.
And I will agree.
You came down off the cross andsat down and I know Jay was
asking you questions and you'relike, eh, no, I got nothing,
don't.
You know, like, you were just inthis moment of complete serene
and just so relaxed.
(15:44):
Yeah, it takes a minute to getout of it.
Like getting a good hour and ahalf massage where your whole
body is just in another plane.
And you see that that's how youfinish off.
Cat (2) (15:55):
Yeah.
Elle (15:56):
Yeah.
Cat (2) (15:57):
So it's very much a Kind of a symbiotic relationship
because he definitely getspleasure from providing the
pleasure.
And yeah, it's just a reallygood space to be in.
He is very gentle.
I know it doesn't probably comeacross that way.
I,
Elle (16:13):
I think it does, but I've, I've watched it a number of
times.
Probably the first couple oftimes people are like, Ooh,
whoa, what are they, what arethey doing?
Tramp (16:20):
In the past I've come across similar situations where
It was obviously a scene andagain, from someone who is not
in the kink arena, to hear likea flail, like whistle and then
impact.
Tramp (2) (16:35):
Yeah.
Tramp (16:36):
I mean, I almost recoil because it's because I don't
know admittedly and thinking, Ohmy goodness.
That was really hard.
Elle (16:47):
Well, and sometimes, what you two have, you've got your
rhythm down and he is a verygentle person.
I did at your party have him doa short scene on me and it was
oddly very relaxing, but thereare people who do it wrong and
who can injure people.
So if you don't have the rightknowledge and the experience and
(17:09):
the practice with somebody.
You can hurt someone, and sothat's where you have to be
careful there too.
Tramp (17:16):
I would guess in parallel to the lifestyle, it is about
trust and communication.
If you really think about it.
Oh, for sure.
And even more so in a situationlike you described, Kat.
You have to have ultimate trust.
And you have to be able tocommunicate if it does become
too much.
Cat (2) (17:32):
Yep.
Tramp (17:33):
Right.
Cat (2) (17:33):
The first DOM that I connected with, on this journey
was a sadistic Dom.
Oh.
And that was okay, but it'sdefinitely not my preference.
And I maintain a relationshipwith that person, but it wasn't
(17:53):
going to be kink focused.
There was no way it was going tocontinue to be kink focused,
because that's not what I'mlooking for.
I'm not a masochist.
I'm not interested in justhaving pain for the sake of
pain.
That's not what I'm looking for.
But there are definitely, whenyou're talking about scenes that
you've seen that look scripted,there definitely are.
Like, if you go to a kink nightat the big club downtown and
(18:18):
they're running scenes there.
Those are scripted, for sure.
Therefore, our entertainment,what we do, and if my partner
pulls somebody in who wants tohave a little bit of a tasting
or a scene, it's more fluid thanthat.
It's not trying to get a certainreaction from an audience or
anything like that.
(18:38):
But I do know what you'retalking about.
We were I'm saying we with adifferent partner now, we were
at Voodoo.
in the springs and there wassomebody doing a very,
uncomfortable and painfullooking scene, a female Dom and
a male sub.
And the male partner that I waswith was along with several
(18:59):
other males in particular in theroom audibly gasping every every
time.
Certain things were happening.
I'm uncomfortable with just youtalking about it.
I can only imagine.
And it was his first time thereand I had to kind of pull him
aside and say, okay.
Elle (19:13):
This isn't normal.
Cat (2) (19:14):
He's okay.
He's enjoying this.
So take a breath.
Or step outside because you'regasping is really distracting.
So yeah, it can be reallyuncomfortable to watch but
Elle (19:28):
But everybody everybody is different.
Cat (19:31):
Yeah,
Elle (19:31):
so everybody's got a different level Yep, never yuck
somebody else's yum for sure.
And so, it's just finding thatLevel that you're okay with with
the partner that is listeningand hearing you for sure.
Cat (2) (19:44):
Yeah So yeah, the the kink side of it is it's big for
me and I can't imagine being ina relationship where there was
none of that.
Or not having one of myrelationships where there was
none of that.
And that's part of the, I guess,the joy of poly is if you're not
getting that with one person youcan find a complimentary person
(20:05):
that you can, sure.
Yeah.
Tramp (20:06):
Well, I'd like to think of it as boundaries and
standards and bravo to you forfinding what works for you and
what clearly doesn't.
Cat (2) (20:14):
Yep.
Well, my current partner, thiswas completely new for him, and
I actually approached him aboutit, because I had lost the top
that I had been playing with,and just straight up asked my
current partner, is thissomething that you would be
willing to explore with me?
And he said yes, so.
(20:38):
Well,
Elle (20:38):
he took it seriously.
And he's good at it.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
No, it's.
kind of magic to watch ithappen.
If you just understand that thisis good for the person who it's
being done to and just watchingthe different sensations, it's
kind of beautiful.
It isn't something that I just,you know, really in my
wheelhouse, I will willing totry or, do it again.
(21:02):
I would do it again.
But it's, neat to watch ithappen to someone else and it's
really interesting to see withsomeone who's there on the cross
and what the differentsensations are doing to them.
Seeing, a woman come hard andnot even be able to barely hold
herself up.
(21:22):
She's so
Cat (2) (21:24):
Yeah.
Elle (21:24):
Into it.
Yes.
Cat (2) (21:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and there's definitely apiece of it from the book.
perspective of being a singlefemale who has a million things
going on in her life ofcompletely relinquishing all the
control.
Right.
And being with someone that youtrust enough to relinquish all
of that control and just letthem take care of you.
(21:48):
So.
Elle (21:49):
That's a really beautiful point.
Tramp (2) (21:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Elle (21:52):
So tell me your favorite story, your best experience that
you can think of in the last sixyears.
That you go, yeah, if I lookback, that's, that's the one
that I really had such a greattime at.
Cat (2) (22:07):
So, actual specific experiences.
I was just talking to a couplethat they were the only people
that I ever connected with in mytiny little teardrop camper.
They know who, they know whothey are.
And this was at Orbis actually.
And I would say one of my topexperiences beyond that was also
(22:33):
at Orbis just last year with mypartner.
But we were, there are so manyfunny stories, but we were at
Orbis.
We were camping there.
They were set up in a tent withanother couple.
I was in my camper.
I was solo at that point.
This is right before I had metthe current partner and I was
actually with a differentpartner that I just started
(22:54):
seeing.
And I, I do what I want as asingle female.
I'm a bit more settled down now.
But anyway, I went up by myselfwith my camper.
I pulled my camper up.
The couple that they were upthere with fell asleep at 10
o'clock or something.
So They were wide awake and theycame knocking on the door of my
(23:15):
camper at one in the morning,which those are not very big
campers.
No, it's tiny.
That's about the size of two ofthese tables.
Maybe if it's a, queen mattressand that was it.
And he's, about six foot.
She's.
Not.
But they said, can we come in?
Can we come in?
We're bored.
And and there may have been somesubstances involved in this
(23:37):
whole interaction, but they werenot going to sleep.
And they said, can we come in?
And I'm like, yeah, come on in.
So anyway, the three of usplayed in that camper, in all
sorts of weird contortions,because there's not a lot of
room, and that's the only coupleI've ever, played with in there.
It actually started to rollaway.
Elle (23:55):
Oh, oh no, it did not.
It
Cat (2) (23:57):
did.
It was very light, very, verylight.
Like I could pick the thing upand move it around if I needed
to.
So at one point it started toroll and we are.
Elle (24:06):
Like, this is great movement we've got going on, but
Cat (2) (24:09):
we're also saying this doesn't seem safe.
So, so he jumps out and goes andacquires a giant rock from a
field and.
Shoves it up against the wheelof the camper and comes back and
he's like, we're good.
We're good.
And we just kept going So thatwas a super fun night, but to
(24:30):
kind of dovetail off of that thebigger story for me in terms of
favorite experiences is thecommunity that you build with
people that you would neverotherwise interact with.
So this is a couple that I neverwould have met, would have had
no reason to meet who, they'restill good friends of mine.
(24:51):
And that is the thing that isthe most enriching about this
lifestyle, is the people that Ihave met and can just reach out
to for things and have aconversation with or meet up
with them again.
And it's like you've been there.
yesterday, the community,because we are so focused on
communication and we're sofocused on trust that you,
(25:13):
connect with so many differentkinds of people.
And I really, really value allof those relationships.
So that's the, the biggerpicture in terms of that story.
That's a
Elle (25:25):
beautiful way to put it.
for sharing.
I have one more question.
You and I are both Older, we'reover 50.
When I met Jay and we startedLifestyle, I was 52.
And as an older woman, whatwould, and we're not old, just
(25:45):
let me correct that.
But, you know, we're not 30,we're not 40.
What is the benefit to being awoman over 50?
And Getting into the lifestyle,however it is.
Cat (2) (25:58):
So I think it's not just the age, but the stage at
which we got into it.
So hindsight is right.
How many years did we miss?
Dang it.
Well, hindsight.
So, but one of the biggestbenefits is that I, after I went
through the candy store phase, Iwill not settle and I tell.
(26:20):
younger women who approach methat you shouldn't be settling
either have your fun right.
But, you don't ever have tosettle.
It's made me, I think that wehave the benefit of years of
observing relationships thatwork and relationships that
crash and burn.
Tramp (2) (26:41):
Mm-hmm
Cat (2) (26:41):
Not just the ones that we're in, but watching our
girlfriends and family membersand all kinds of people, how
these relationships arerestrictive.
So, I think just all of thatexperience just gives you so
much more.
Insight into what you want whatyou don't want correct, and I
(27:05):
think that's huge and I getYounger women approaching me on
a fairly regular basis, and I'mnever sure what to do about it
You probably get the same thing,but like 20 something Oh, yeah,
whatever it at when we're outand about or we're out dancing
or we're out at the club Comingup and basically saying, I want
(27:25):
to be like you and in my head,it is a compliment, but then in
my head, I'm saying, but it tookme 30 years to figure it out.
So, so if I can provide any sortof goal, I guess, for in terms
of the way that I'm living mylife now.
Great.
That's wonderful.
I lost your question.
Elle (27:46):
I think you answered it there and I think in general,
what a lot of the lifestyle isabout is giving,
Cat (27:53):
yeah,
Elle (27:53):
so it's giving and sharing of information and when we meet
new people at the ranch and theyalways have, a dozen questions
and we're happy to answer them,and what have you done and how
did you get into this?
What did you do in thissituation?
You know?
And.
It helps them just hearing thosestories that, Oh, okay.
(28:13):
Oh, all right.
There's, this is okay.
This is normal.
This is, Oh yeah, I've had thosefeelings before too.
And this is what you should do.
Talk about it.
Always, always, always talk.
Answers always talk about it.
But I think it is a benefitbecause we aren't caught up in
the younger still trying tofigure out.
Who they are and their life andeverything we have all these
(28:36):
life experiences so that we cannow go I am enjoying my life.
Yep.
I deserve this.
I want this and I want to moveforward and Give
Cat (2) (28:48):
yeah, I know what I want.
I know what I enjoy But I alsoknow that if it all fell apart
tomorrow, I would be fine bymyself, right?
Oh, well, the other piece that,I mean, this isn't a benefit
specifically, because I don'ttake advantage of it, and you
probably don't either.
But the 20 something males whoproposition you online every
week, because, they've heardthat we know things.
(29:10):
And the truth is we, we do.
Elle (29:14):
They're not wrong.
My problem is I have a 31 yearold son and I really have an
issue.
Anything small, younger thanthat?
Nope, nope, nope.
I can't, I cannot wrap my headaround that.
Cat (2) (29:25):
Well, I was in a really, really visible
profession for 27 years where Icould at any moment run into.
someone that I dealt with inthat profession.
And that's always thrown me alittle bit.
Sure.
But people started saying to me,if you're running into them
(29:46):
here.
Yeah.
Exactly.
They're here for the same reasonthat you are.
They're there too.
What are they going to do?
Out you?
Right?
I was going to
Tramp (29:53):
say, I think that's a common fear, but it's, if you
really break it down, it'smutually assured destruction.
It's like, yeah, they're therefor the exact same thing.
Elle (30:00):
It's weirdly awkward at first when, when you come across
somebody but then all of asudden you have this connection
that you know,
Cat (2) (30:08):
you know,
Elle (30:09):
I have, sorority sister from college who has been in the
lifestyle.
And after Jay and I starteddating for a while, she reached
out basically that she knew.
And I was freaked out at first,like, Oh my gosh, what do I do?
And Jay was like, well, ifshe's.
talking about it to you.
She knows.
She understands.
(30:29):
So it's fun to run into her.
We usually go and have dinnerwith two other sorority sisters,
actually having dinner with themTuesday night, and they don't
know.
So then now she and I have thisunderlying
Tramp (2) (30:42):
sort of
Elle (30:42):
story that they will never know and can't know, but a
little wink here, a littleEyebrow up or it's kind of fun.
Yeah, the secret secret world.
Cat (2) (30:52):
Well, and there's just no question that I am happier
and healthier and Just in abetter place today than I have
ever been That's in my life.
So that's and That's to do withthese relationships.
That's to do with the communityand it's to do with the growth
That I've had to force myself toembark on, like, the work on
(31:16):
myself because of being where Iam.
Right.
So, yeah.
Tramp (31:22):
Excellent.
Well, Kat, thank you so much forbeing open and just telling us
about, own unique experiences.
I think we all have them andit's really been a blessing to
have you here.
Cat (2) (31:35):
Well, thank you.
Yeah, we appreciate it.
This was great fun.
So thank you for having me.
Tramp (31:40):
But guys, I'm going to pause real quick and tell you
about one of our favoritesponsors, which is Shivers.
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Not only is my pleasureincreased, but the next day I
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At a lot of lifestyle events, Ithink this is going to replace
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It's pretty obvious we thinkthey're awesome.
Elle (32:58):
So we actually got a an AMA the other day, so I'm going
to read that out loud and thenmaybe the three of us can have
some suggestions for these, thiscouple.
Yes,
Tramp (33:11):
and thank you for whomever submitted that.
It is very welcome because wehaven't gotten one in quite some
time.
So guys, please send those tous.
Elle (33:19):
Yes.
Dear unapologetic swingers, weare married.
Mid 30s couple in the Midwest.
We don't have any clubs in ourtown per se, but we have been
invited to a house party.
What advice would you give us?
What should we know?
What should we watch out for?
This is our first lifestyleevent.
(33:40):
So not having much moreinformation about their
background and how they decidedto get into the lifestyle.
I think there's some basicthings that you and your partner
can have in your back pocket tojust, navigate this, first
situation.
Tramp (33:57):
Well, I'm gonna kind of lay the scene just like a lot of
couples that decide to dip theirtoes into the lifestyle.
There's gonna be nervesinvolved.
There's gonna be a lot ofquestions, a lot of uncertainty.
Right out of the gate.
So as we've said, even duringthis exact episode, communicate,
you have to talk, you have toset your boundaries and stick to
(34:21):
them.
Elle (34:22):
Yes.
And, I think it's a benefit tolisten to a number of different
podcasts beforehand.
So many of those.
People will tell their storiesof, success stories, but also
like we talk about the good,bad, and the ugly is everybody's
messed up somewhere or had asituation and come back out of
(34:43):
that going, Ooh, we don't wantto do that again.
It is helpful to listen to thosestories and to discuss ahead of
time, okay, if this situationcomes up.
How are we going to handle it,so that you're not afraid or
you're not, kind of caught offguard before you go into it.
Right.
Cat (2) (35:01):
Well, and while going in without any expectations that
you're going to play at all.
Elle (35:06):
Correct.
Cat (2) (35:06):
Still having set boundaries about if something
does come up, what are we okaywith, just in case.
Because you don't want to be ina situation where.
A couple does approach you or asingle does approach you and do
they want to play with both ofus?
Do they want to play with one ofus?
What do we do?
We need to go in a corner andhave a conversation.
(35:27):
Well, have that conversation asmuch as you can before you even
get there.
So you have a baseline of whatyou are comfortable with and
what you're not comfortablewith.
Elle (35:38):
And I think you bring up a good point is to go in without
expecting that you're going tohave sex with somebody else that
puts a lot of pressure on you.
That makes you more nervous.
I think if you go in and say toeach other, okay, let's meet two
new people and find out moreabout them.
(35:59):
And that helps you to feel morecomfortable about what's going
on.
But at any point, if one of youis not comfortable, if one of
you is not feeling right, if oneof you just isn't feeling the
vibe and you say it's time togo, no harm, no foul, you go.
Because, as Jay likes to say,the most important relationship
(36:20):
in that room is not you and thatorgasm you're going to have,
it's you and your partner andyou have to go home with them
and that's where your priorityneeds to be.
Absolutely.
I
Tramp (36:31):
think you've said previously, Elle, that you go
into these situations having nosex expectations.
Elle (36:37):
Yes.
That's my favorite
Tramp (36:38):
one.
And you really want to just goin with a good attitude and
you're there to have a good timewith your partner.
Correct.
Well, however that looks to you,but you're going in to have a
good time and I would also tagon that on top of a close second
to communicating beforehand.
Don't overindulge.
(36:59):
Oh,
Elle (36:59):
yes, because it's so
Tramp (37:01):
common to have that new couple and you just see there
and one or both of them is justdowning the drinks one after
another, trying to get that
Elle (37:09):
courage
Tramp (37:10):
up.
Yeah.
A little liquid,
Elle (37:11):
a little bit of liquid courage is okay, but
Tramp (37:13):
not a whole bottle.
Elle (37:15):
But too much.
And it comes down.
It's a topic for all of usconsent.
is so huge in the lifestylecommunity.
And it's about having theability to say no if you, if you
wanted to.
And if you've overindulgedbecause you were so nervous,
(37:35):
those are the people that wewill talk to nicely, but nothing
will ever happen.
Because if somehow down the linethey regret, Oh, I didn't mean
to do that.
You've stepped over a boundary.
That person needs to becognizant and willing to give
consent.
Cat (2) (37:51):
Absolutely.
I guess the one other thing thatI would say is that house
parties are amazing for peoplewatching and they're amazing for
kind of soaking in what doesthis even look like?
So So, not going in with theexpectations for sure, but if
you're going in with the hopethat you will at least get to
(38:13):
see how things work and get afeel for things, that's
absolutely fine for a firstexperience.
Yeah.
Just go and watch.
Go see what's happening.
Elle (38:22):
I've never been to a a house party where people were
expected to play.
Cat (2) (38:27):
Right.
Elle (38:28):
They understand, especially if you're new, that
you may just wanna watch andobserve.
And get a feel for it.
And that in itself can be sexyas hell.
Absolutely.
And you go home and enjoyyourselves and you're like, all
right, this'll work.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tramp (38:43):
Love it.
Well, everyone, thank you guysso much for just continuing to
come on this journey.
And it's really cool to see someof the back end stuff, some of
the analytics where it's notjust people in the United
States, but it's.
truly people from all around theworld that listen so from the
bottom of our hearts thank youso much if you would like to
(39:06):
reach out to us even just to sayhi or ask us a question we can
be reached atunapologeticswingers at gmail.
com.
Our website is also www.
unapologeticswingers.
com.
There you can listen to the mostrecent episode or find links to
our partners.
But really what we're gonna askis wherever you happen to be
(39:29):
listening to us, just leave us aquick review that helps us get
the word out more than anythingelse
Elle (39:36):
for sure.
And I have to say after lastepisode, you and I dug into the
analytics of where people were.
listening to us and we had tolook some of these countries up
like we had no idea and Ireally, really want to dig into
where it is and if we seesomebody in the obscure country
or obscure town, listeningagain, hoping it's the same, but
(39:59):
might be more than one person.
But we do really appreciate itand it's very fun.
Tramp (40:05):
Yeah.
Elle (40:05):
Yeah.
Tramp (40:06):
Makes you feel good.
Elle (40:06):
Yeah.
Well, until next time, I'm L and
Tramp (40:10):
I'm the tramp.
Elle (40:11):
Be sexy,
Tramp (40:12):
be confident,
Elle (40:13):
be unapologetic.
Welcome back to unapologetic swingers.
I'm l
Tramp (00:09):
and I'm the tramp I just want to thank you guys for
coming along on this journeywith us.
And really, a quick littletidbit about us is we're just
combining our Experiences to thelifestyle and talking about it.
Realistically, the highs, thelows and everything in between.
Elle (00:29):
As we have been looking for new topics to talk about and
people to interview the The bestpart that we've had is, looking
to friends that we have and thatwe've met through our
experiences in the lifestyle andat the ranch or at a party and
(00:49):
ones that we find justfascinating and, we think would
offer a lot.
stories to people who might benew to the lifestyle or in it
for a while, but maybe hit alull or just hearing somebody's
story and having more of anunderstanding of what someone
(01:10):
else has gone through.
So I would like to introduce ourgood friend cat and we got to
know cat.
She's been doing fairly well inthis last year.
Just one of those, again, seeingpeople over and over again,
talking, getting to know eachother more, and really enjoying
(01:30):
their company and things thatthey have to say.
And she has just been a reallygreat friend to get to know over
this last year.
Cat (01:40):
Thank you.
Elle (01:41):
Welcome.
Welcome, Kat.
It's been
Cat (01:42):
nice getting to know you too.
And for having me.
for having me.
Elle (01:48):
Well, so what we were thinking is maybe we could just
spend a few minutes talkingabout how you got into the
lifestyle and what made youdecide that this was something
you wanted to do at this pointin your life?
Cat (2) (02:04):
So I was in a completely monogamous marriage
and prior to that relationshipfor 27 years.
And when that relationshipdissolved, this was at the end
of 2019, I went on a journey toexplore a lot of different
(02:28):
things.
But I was coming from arelationship where the last
multiple years had had nophysical contact whatsoever.
Tramp (2) (02:36):
Yeah.
Cat (2) (02:37):
And I truly believed that.
I just did not have thosedesires.
I did not have any interest orlibido or anything like that.
And so, when I did separate andultimately divorced, I was
(02:58):
exploring.
I was in full exploration mode.
And I went through a period oftime that I think is fairly
typical where I was a bit of akid in a candy store.
Yes, yes, yes.
I tried that flavor and maybeseveral flavors at the same
time.
You know, all the things.
(03:19):
And went a little bit, I'm notgoing to say crazy, but I was
definitely realizing that Iabsolutely absolutely.
I just needed to be in adifferent context, so this
matches up with some otherthings that I've heard in terms
of timing with people who havespoken on your podcast, this is
all going down, right?
(03:39):
As COVID is hitting, so, yeah,so I was, dating a little bit
and meeting different people,clicked in with a person that I
met in the Springs and wasactually meeting.
dating, dating this person andthen COVID hits and we're
basically locked down at thatpoint.
And I'm not getting to see thisperson at all.
(04:01):
We're just talking online forthe most part, barely have met
even.
But once we did meet, it becamethe first significant
relationship that I had outsideof where I had come from.
He was previously in thelifestyle with his ex wife.
I kind of knew some things justbased on, actually based on
(04:27):
another person who you alsoknow.
Funny how that works.
Small world.
But I hadn't done anyexploration in terms of the
lifestyle.
He suggested to me, if you everwant to explore, we can go to
these places together if youwant to, we can, see if we can
connect with other people.
This is the first person whointroduced me to the fact that
(04:49):
places like the Scarlet Ranchand Montchelet existed, and, I
was listening very attentivelyto all of this, thinking, well,
that sounds Interesting.
You know, I
Tramp (04:58):
was going to say, what was your knee jerk reaction?
Because oftentimes coming from aplace of monogamy, the knee jerk
without even thinking about itis going to say no, no, but you,
you weren't a much difference.
Cat (2) (05:14):
I want something more.
Yeah.
And that's, I mean, that was oneof the first indications for me,
for myself was that.
When he's telling me about thesethings very tentatively, to see
how I react to them, I'm notsaying absolutely not.
I'm saying tell me more.
It's curiosity.
It's openness.
Openness, for sure.
So, he and I ended up, longstory short, we ended up meeting
(05:37):
a couple at a play apartmentthat they had exclusively for
that purpose.
So, This was my firstexperience.
This man and I had been datingfor a few months at that point,
met this couple at theirapartment, and they had actually
invited another single maleover.
And it turned into the mostdelightful afternoon, where I
(05:59):
got to be the center ofattention, and it was just
completely fluid and easy andfun, and I came out of it
saying, okay, well, I found mypeople, right?
What do we do next?
Yeah.
What's next?
And the couple that we had metthere were like, well, you guys
must have been doing this for areally long time.
You're so comfortable and easytogether.
(06:19):
And he, he said to them, this isthe first time she's been out
the gate and they're going tointerject
Tramp (06:26):
just for a second.
It's funny.
How so many of us, when we havethat great experience, and it
doesn't have to be, an actualplay session, but whether it's
just going to Sunday Funday orsomething like that, and all of
a sudden it dawns on you, it'slike, I found my people.
Right.
Elle (06:43):
Yes.
Right.
How
Tramp (06:44):
most lifestyle folks, they're some of the most caring,
friendly.
Yes.
You know, people I've ever metand quite frankly, that's why I
prefer them over my vanillafriends.
Elle (06:53):
Cause you can talk to them about anything.
You have an understanding forwhat the other is going through.
And I have found that those arethe people that are truly there
for you without judgment becausewe don't judge.
Cat (2) (07:05):
Absolutely.
So we didn't actually ever dothat again.
I was with that person for aboutsix months, but I decided after
that first experience, In myinfinite wisdom, that the ideal
situation for me would be tohave a girlfriend, and a
boyfriend, and a couple.
And I could have all three ofthose things, and then my life
(07:26):
would be perfect.
Well, that's a lot harder thanit sounds.
So, I've almost gotten to thatpoint a couple times, but it's
too much.
But what became very clear tome, As I started exploring,
okay, what does this mean?
And I'm not a big fan of labels,but they're useful.
They serve a purpose.
(07:47):
I am absolutely Polly.
Elle (07:50):
You can love multiple people at any one time.
Cat (2) (07:52):
Yeah, but I'm also, sometimes I'm entirely by
myself.
I do classify myself.
If you have to look at it thatway as solo Polly in that, if it
comes down to it, I'm going to.
Probably choose the relationshipwith myself over all these other
things, partly because it justgets too chaotic, but it became
(08:13):
very clear to me that Polly waswhere I was.
So I would say kind of like adouble major in Polly and kink
with a minor in swing.
Okay.
So that's actually, I love that.
It's like, that's actually the,lower part of the the diagram
for me, I guess.
Open to it.
It's fun when it happens.
(08:33):
Yeah.
So it's not your driving force.
It's not.
Elle (08:37):
So the driving force is the poly relationships that
having multiple closerelationships with one or more
people.
that are all involved to eachother.
And then you had mentioned thatyou are into kink.
And I think what we're findingover the years, you are either
kink or swing and they canoverlap, but it isn't
(09:01):
necessarily an overlap.
So tell us how that fits intoyour world.
Cat (2) (09:06):
I think that, well, as we've talked about, it's
different for everybody, but Thekink piece is something else
that I figured out very earlyon.
And it is something that ishardwired, almost, for me.
So, that piece of it, I don'tthink that there's not an
overlap with the swing piece.
(09:27):
But at the same time, the natureof the relationships within
kink, If that's genuinely whereyou are, don't necessarily lend
themselves to the same kind ofrelationships you get in typical
swinger lifestyle relationshipsjust because of the power
dynamics and the different kindof trust and different kind of
(09:47):
communication that's involved.
I was going to say
Tramp (09:50):
I feel that in the lifestyle it does tend to be a
lot more fluid.
Sometimes up to chance, whereasin the kink community, Correct
me if I'm wrong, but you have ascene and it's very, it's almost
like it's scripted we're goingto be doing this today.
Cat (2) (10:07):
So for us, it's, it's definitely not scripted.
It's open the bag and see wherethings go.
Okay.
Well, and that's part of therelationship.
What happens during the scene?
depends on the signals that mypartner is getting from me.
And he may change entirely whathe was planning on doing based
(10:31):
on the way I'm reacting.
Or, and this is an interestingthing in terms of being at the
ranch or somewhere else whereyou're in an open play
situation.
If.
He's getting energy from the waythat people are reacting to
what's going on in the scene.
He may change things based onthat.
(10:52):
As his sub, as the bottom, mostof the time I am completely
oblivious to what's going on inthe room.
I don't know that there arepeople around me until
afterwards or if they're beingreally loud.
I'm just working with whateverhe's Giving me and it does
change every time.
Okay,
Elle (11:10):
so Jay and I happen to Be watching the other night when
the two of you were doing ascene With actually a new couple
that had only been to the ranchonce before so we did find
ourselves Kind of explainingsome of the things because I
think the initial Thought is,oh, that's impact on her.
Is that hurting her?
(11:30):
And so explaining actually, no,it's not.
But would you mind just taking amoment and walking us through
just a basic scene that youmight find yourself in?
Cat (2) (11:43):
So a pretty typical scene.
I am restrained to usuallyacross sometimes something
else's banking bench, whateverhappens to be available.
A cabana, you know, whatever hasa hard point in it.
A hard point being somewherewhere it is safe for me to be
(12:04):
attached to it in some waywithout injuring myself and
without the whole thingcollapsing and people getting
hurt.
Yes.
And we will have multipledifferent implements that are
set out that may or may not beused and Usually there will be a
short period of warm up whereI'm actually being touched in a
(12:28):
way with bamboo or with somekind of a cane or something like
that to actually warm up theblood vessels in my skin.
Elle (12:37):
And that's when you see your skin start pinking up a
little bit.
You can tell it doesn't hurtyou, it's more of just a thwack
thwack.
For lack of a better term forit, that's what I hear.
I think that's a technical term.
Yeah, sure.
And, and you can see your, skinstarting to pink up and get
sensitive.
And then, so you've got allthose little endorphins out on
(12:59):
the outside of your skin so thatyou can start receiving.
Cat (2) (13:02):
And it's 100 percent sensory for me.
I am completely touch motivated.
That's one of the things that.
Made it clear that this was agood thing for me.
It's therapeutic, that's a wordthat you used the other night,
actually.
When I am in that space, it'slike getting the best massage on
the planet with a person thatyou care deeply about.
(13:23):
So, it's, kind of magical.
You go from that point whereyour skin is getting warmed up,
basically and then my partnerwill go through a series of
different implements could beLeather floggers could be metal
floggers.
I have a thing about metal.
So, there's always metalinvolved.
But he usually alternates theimpact implements that he's
(13:47):
using with other sensory devicesthat may be temperature that may
cool down my skin after he'sbeen flogging me.
Or that may hypersensitize myskin after he's been flogging
me.
And it is, because we've beendoing this for as long as we've
been doing it, he can tellexactly what he's gonna get from
(14:14):
certain implements.
So, yeah, he'll alternate theactual impact with different
sensory toys.
It's kind of an arc, so he willstart with things that are a bit
less impactful and get harderand harder and harder and then
come back down.
And then when we're finished, hewill take me down and get me to
(14:35):
a space where he knows that Ican get some aftercare if I need
it, can curl up and even get ablanket or whatever I need and
kind of decompress.
So it's, very much sort of acycle of healing almost for me.
Like what you saw this pastweek, I'd had a crap week and he
(14:55):
knew it and he took care of it.
And then it was better.
Elle (15:00):
Well, I like when I see he will use.
an instrument on you and you seeyour skin is pink and then he
will very gently take his handand brush that along you like to
just kind of calm that sensationdown for just a moment or just
make you feel different andready to transition into the
(15:22):
next one.
And I will agree.
You came down off the cross andsat down and I know Jay was
asking you questions and you'relike, eh, no, I got nothing,
don't.
You know, like, you were just inthis moment of complete serene
and just so relaxed.
(15:44):
Yeah, it takes a minute to getout of it.
Like getting a good hour and ahalf massage where your whole
body is just in another plane.
And you see that that's how youfinish off.
Cat (2) (15:55):
Yeah.
Elle (15:56):
Yeah.
Cat (2) (15:57):
So it's very much a Kind of a symbiotic relationship
because he definitely getspleasure from providing the
pleasure.
And yeah, it's just a reallygood space to be in.
He is very gentle.
I know it doesn't probably comeacross that way.
I,
Elle (16:13):
I think it does, but I've, I've watched it a number of
times.
Probably the first couple oftimes people are like, Ooh,
whoa, what are they, what arethey doing?
Tramp (16:20):
In the past I've come across similar situations where
It was obviously a scene andagain, from someone who is not
in the kink arena, to hear likea flail, like whistle and then
impact.
Tramp (2) (16:35):
Yeah.
Tramp (16:36):
I mean, I almost recoil because it's because I don't
know admittedly and thinking, Ohmy goodness.
That was really hard.
Elle (16:47):
Well, and sometimes, what you two have, you've got your
rhythm down and he is a verygentle person.
I did at your party have him doa short scene on me and it was
oddly very relaxing, but thereare people who do it wrong and
who can injure people.
So if you don't have the rightknowledge and the experience and
(17:09):
the practice with somebody.
You can hurt someone, and sothat's where you have to be
careful there too.
Tramp (17:16):
I would guess in parallel to the lifestyle, it is about
trust and communication.
If you really think about it.
Oh, for sure.
And even more so in a situationlike you described, Kat.
You have to have ultimate trust.
And you have to be able tocommunicate if it does become
too much.
Cat (2) (17:32):
Yep.
Tramp (17:33):
Right.
Cat (2) (17:33):
The first DOM that I connected with, on this journey
was a sadistic Dom.
Oh.
And that was okay, but it'sdefinitely not my preference.
And I maintain a relationshipwith that person, but it wasn't
(17:53):
going to be kink focused.
There was no way it was going tocontinue to be kink focused,
because that's not what I'mlooking for.
I'm not a masochist.
I'm not interested in justhaving pain for the sake of
pain.
That's not what I'm looking for.
But there are definitely, whenyou're talking about scenes that
you've seen that look scripted,there definitely are.
Like, if you go to a kink nightat the big club downtown and
(18:18):
they're running scenes there.
Those are scripted, for sure.
Therefore, our entertainment,what we do, and if my partner
pulls somebody in who wants tohave a little bit of a tasting
or a scene, it's more fluid thanthat.
It's not trying to get a certainreaction from an audience or
anything like that.
(18:38):
But I do know what you'retalking about.
We were I'm saying we with adifferent partner now, we were
at Voodoo.
in the springs and there wassomebody doing a very,
uncomfortable and painfullooking scene, a female Dom and
a male sub.
And the male partner that I waswith was along with several
(18:59):
other males in particular in theroom audibly gasping every every
time.
Certain things were happening.
I'm uncomfortable with just youtalking about it.
I can only imagine.
And it was his first time thereand I had to kind of pull him
aside and say, okay.
Elle (19:13):
This isn't normal.
Cat (2) (19:14):
He's okay.
He's enjoying this.
So take a breath.
Or step outside because you'regasping is really distracting.
So yeah, it can be reallyuncomfortable to watch but
Elle (19:28):
But everybody everybody is different.
Cat (19:31):
Yeah,
Elle (19:31):
so everybody's got a different level Yep, never yuck
somebody else's yum for sure.
And so, it's just finding thatLevel that you're okay with with
the partner that is listeningand hearing you for sure.
Cat (2) (19:44):
Yeah So yeah, the the kink side of it is it's big for
me and I can't imagine being ina relationship where there was
none of that.
Or not having one of myrelationships where there was
none of that.
And that's part of the, I guess,the joy of poly is if you're not
getting that with one person youcan find a complimentary person
(20:05):
that you can, sure.
Yeah.
Tramp (20:06):
Well, I'd like to think of it as boundaries and
standards and bravo to you forfinding what works for you and
what clearly doesn't.
Cat (2) (20:14):
Yep.
Well, my current partner, thiswas completely new for him, and
I actually approached him aboutit, because I had lost the top
that I had been playing with,and just straight up asked my
current partner, is thissomething that you would be
willing to explore with me?
And he said yes, so.
(20:38):
Well,
Elle (20:38):
he took it seriously.
And he's good at it.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
No, it's.
kind of magic to watch ithappen.
If you just understand that thisis good for the person who it's
being done to and just watchingthe different sensations, it's
kind of beautiful.
It isn't something that I just,you know, really in my
wheelhouse, I will willing totry or, do it again.
(21:02):
I would do it again.
But it's, neat to watch ithappen to someone else and it's
really interesting to see withsomeone who's there on the cross
and what the differentsensations are doing to them.
Seeing, a woman come hard andnot even be able to barely hold
herself up.
(21:22):
She's so
Cat (2) (21:24):
Yeah.
Elle (21:24):
Into it.
Yes.
Cat (2) (21:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and there's definitely apiece of it from the book.
perspective of being a singlefemale who has a million things
going on in her life ofcompletely relinquishing all the
control.
Right.
And being with someone that youtrust enough to relinquish all
of that control and just letthem take care of you.
(21:48):
So.
Elle (21:49):
That's a really beautiful point.
Tramp (2) (21:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Elle (21:52):
So tell me your favorite story, your best experience that
you can think of in the last sixyears.
That you go, yeah, if I lookback, that's, that's the one
that I really had such a greattime at.
Cat (2) (22:07):
So, actual specific experiences.
I was just talking to a couplethat they were the only people
that I ever connected with in mytiny little teardrop camper.
They know who, they know whothey are.
And this was at Orbis actually.
And I would say one of my topexperiences beyond that was also
(22:33):
at Orbis just last year with mypartner.
But we were, there are so manyfunny stories, but we were at
Orbis.
We were camping there.
They were set up in a tent withanother couple.
I was in my camper.
I was solo at that point.
This is right before I had metthe current partner and I was
actually with a differentpartner that I just started
(22:54):
seeing.
And I, I do what I want as asingle female.
I'm a bit more settled down now.
But anyway, I went up by myselfwith my camper.
I pulled my camper up.
The couple that they were upthere with fell asleep at 10
o'clock or something.
So They were wide awake and theycame knocking on the door of my
(23:15):
camper at one in the morning,which those are not very big
campers.
No, it's tiny.
That's about the size of two ofthese tables.
Maybe if it's a, queen mattressand that was it.
And he's, about six foot.
She's.
Not.
But they said, can we come in?
Can we come in?
We're bored.
And and there may have been somesubstances involved in this
(23:37):
whole interaction, but they werenot going to sleep.
And they said, can we come in?
And I'm like, yeah, come on in.
So anyway, the three of usplayed in that camper, in all
sorts of weird contortions,because there's not a lot of
room, and that's the only coupleI've ever, played with in there.
It actually started to rollaway.
Elle (23:55):
Oh, oh no, it did not.
It
Cat (2) (23:57):
did.
It was very light, very, verylight.
Like I could pick the thing upand move it around if I needed
to.
So at one point it started toroll and we are.
Elle (24:06):
Like, this is great movement we've got going on, but
Cat (2) (24:09):
we're also saying this doesn't seem safe.
So, so he jumps out and goes andacquires a giant rock from a
field and.
Shoves it up against the wheelof the camper and comes back and
he's like, we're good.
We're good.
And we just kept going So thatwas a super fun night, but to
(24:30):
kind of dovetail off of that thebigger story for me in terms of
favorite experiences is thecommunity that you build with
people that you would neverotherwise interact with.
So this is a couple that I neverwould have met, would have had
no reason to meet who, they'restill good friends of mine.
(24:51):
And that is the thing that isthe most enriching about this
lifestyle, is the people that Ihave met and can just reach out
to for things and have aconversation with or meet up
with them again.
And it's like you've been there.
yesterday, the community,because we are so focused on
communication and we're sofocused on trust that you,
(25:13):
connect with so many differentkinds of people.
And I really, really value allof those relationships.
So that's the, the biggerpicture in terms of that story.
That's a
Elle (25:25):
beautiful way to put it.
for sharing.
I have one more question.
You and I are both Older, we'reover 50.
When I met Jay and we startedLifestyle, I was 52.
And as an older woman, whatwould, and we're not old, just
(25:45):
let me correct that.
But, you know, we're not 30,we're not 40.
What is the benefit to being awoman over 50?
And Getting into the lifestyle,however it is.
Cat (2) (25:58):
So I think it's not just the age, but the stage at
which we got into it.
So hindsight is right.
How many years did we miss?
Dang it.
Well, hindsight.
So, but one of the biggestbenefits is that I, after I went
through the candy store phase, Iwill not settle and I tell.
(26:20):
younger women who approach methat you shouldn't be settling
either have your fun right.
But, you don't ever have tosettle.
It's made me, I think that wehave the benefit of years of
observing relationships thatwork and relationships that
crash and burn.
Tramp (2) (26:41):
Mm-hmm
Cat (2) (26:41):
Not just the ones that we're in, but watching our
girlfriends and family membersand all kinds of people, how
these relationships arerestrictive.
So, I think just all of thatexperience just gives you so
much more.
Insight into what you want whatyou don't want correct, and I
(27:05):
think that's huge and I getYounger women approaching me on
a fairly regular basis, and I'mnever sure what to do about it
You probably get the same thing,but like 20 something Oh, yeah,
whatever it at when we're outand about or we're out dancing
or we're out at the club Comingup and basically saying, I want
(27:25):
to be like you and in my head,it is a compliment, but then in
my head, I'm saying, but it tookme 30 years to figure it out.
So, so if I can provide any sortof goal, I guess, for in terms
of the way that I'm living mylife now.
Great.
That's wonderful.
I lost your question.
Elle (27:46):
I think you answered it there and I think in general,
what a lot of the lifestyle isabout is giving,
Cat (27:53):
yeah,
Elle (27:53):
so it's giving and sharing of information and when we meet
new people at the ranch and theyalways have, a dozen questions
and we're happy to answer them,and what have you done and how
did you get into this?
What did you do in thissituation?
You know?
And.
It helps them just hearing thosestories that, Oh, okay.
(28:13):
Oh, all right.
There's, this is okay.
This is normal.
This is, Oh yeah, I've had thosefeelings before too.
And this is what you should do.
Talk about it.
Always, always, always talk.
Answers always talk about it.
But I think it is a benefitbecause we aren't caught up in
the younger still trying tofigure out.
Who they are and their life andeverything we have all these
(28:36):
life experiences so that we cannow go I am enjoying my life.
Yep.
I deserve this.
I want this and I want to moveforward and Give
Cat (2) (28:48):
yeah, I know what I want.
I know what I enjoy But I alsoknow that if it all fell apart
tomorrow, I would be fine bymyself, right?
Oh, well, the other piece that,I mean, this isn't a benefit
specifically, because I don'ttake advantage of it, and you
probably don't either.
But the 20 something males whoproposition you online every
week, because, they've heardthat we know things.
(29:10):
And the truth is we, we do.
Elle (29:14):
They're not wrong.
My problem is I have a 31 yearold son and I really have an
issue.
Anything small, younger thanthat?
Nope, nope, nope.
I can't, I cannot wrap my headaround that.
Cat (2) (29:25):
Well, I was in a really, really visible
profession for 27 years where Icould at any moment run into.
someone that I dealt with inthat profession.
And that's always thrown me alittle bit.
Sure.
But people started saying to me,if you're running into them
(29:46):
here.
Yeah.
Exactly.
They're here for the same reasonthat you are.
They're there too.
What are they going to do?
Out you?
Right?
I was going to
Tramp (29:53):
say, I think that's a common fear, but it's, if you
really break it down, it'smutually assured destruction.
It's like, yeah, they're therefor the exact same thing.
Elle (30:00):
It's weirdly awkward at first when, when you come across
somebody but then all of asudden you have this connection
that you know,
Cat (2) (30:08):
you know,
Elle (30:09):
I have, sorority sister from college who has been in the
lifestyle.
And after Jay and I starteddating for a while, she reached
out basically that she knew.
And I was freaked out at first,like, Oh my gosh, what do I do?
And Jay was like, well, ifshe's.
talking about it to you.
She knows.
She understands.
(30:29):
So it's fun to run into her.
We usually go and have dinnerwith two other sorority sisters,
actually having dinner with themTuesday night, and they don't
know.
So then now she and I have thisunderlying
Tramp (2) (30:42):
sort of
Elle (30:42):
story that they will never know and can't know, but a
little wink here, a littleEyebrow up or it's kind of fun.
Yeah, the secret secret world.
Cat (2) (30:52):
Well, and there's just no question that I am happier
and healthier and Just in abetter place today than I have
ever been That's in my life.
So that's and That's to do withthese relationships.
That's to do with the communityand it's to do with the growth
That I've had to force myself toembark on, like, the work on
(31:16):
myself because of being where Iam.
Right.
So, yeah.
Tramp (31:22):
Excellent.
Well, Kat, thank you so much forbeing open and just telling us
about, own unique experiences.
I think we all have them andit's really been a blessing to
have you here.
Cat (2) (31:35):
Well, thank you.
Yeah, we appreciate it.
This was great fun.
So thank you for having me.
Tramp (31:40):
But guys, I'm going to pause real quick and tell you
about one of our favoritesponsors, which is Shivers.
Shivers is an edible CBD derivedsensation enhancer.
And there are two specializedformulas, one for men and one
for women.
And let me tell you, thesethings are amazing.
For me, they usually kick inafter 30 to 60 minutes.
(32:00):
And not only do I get a niceenergy boost, but every touch is
magnified.
It truly does send thosewonderful shivers right down
your spine.
But it doesn't end there.
Not only is my pleasureincreased, but the next day I
wake up feeling great, just notall groggy or hungover like if I
had too much to drink duringthat event.
(32:21):
At a lot of lifestyle events, Ithink this is going to replace
alcohol for me.
I feel good, I'm relaxed, andeverything is just better,
especially when I get a chanceto play.
I would love for you guys to trythem out, and we've arranged a
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Just use the coupon code US forUnapologetic Swingers at
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A link can also be found on thewebsite at www.
unapologeticswingers.
com And just please be sure tolet us know what you think.
It's pretty obvious we thinkthey're awesome.
Elle (32:58):
So we actually got a an AMA the other day, so I'm going
to read that out loud and thenmaybe the three of us can have
some suggestions for these, thiscouple.
Yes,
Tramp (33:11):
and thank you for whomever submitted that.
It is very welcome because wehaven't gotten one in quite some
time.
So guys, please send those tous.
Elle (33:19):
Yes.
Dear unapologetic swingers, weare married.
Mid 30s couple in the Midwest.
We don't have any clubs in ourtown per se, but we have been
invited to a house party.
What advice would you give us?
What should we know?
What should we watch out for?
This is our first lifestyleevent.
(33:40):
So not having much moreinformation about their
background and how they decidedto get into the lifestyle.
I think there's some basicthings that you and your partner
can have in your back pocket tojust, navigate this, first
situation.
Tramp (33:57):
Well, I'm gonna kind of lay the scene just like a lot of
couples that decide to dip theirtoes into the lifestyle.
There's gonna be nervesinvolved.
There's gonna be a lot ofquestions, a lot of uncertainty.
Right out of the gate.
So as we've said, even duringthis exact episode, communicate,
you have to talk, you have toset your boundaries and stick to
(34:21):
them.
Elle (34:22):
Yes.
And, I think it's a benefit tolisten to a number of different
podcasts beforehand.
So many of those.
People will tell their storiesof, success stories, but also
like we talk about the good,bad, and the ugly is everybody's
messed up somewhere or had asituation and come back out of
(34:43):
that going, Ooh, we don't wantto do that again.
It is helpful to listen to thosestories and to discuss ahead of
time, okay, if this situationcomes up.
How are we going to handle it,so that you're not afraid or
you're not, kind of caught offguard before you go into it.
Right.
Cat (2) (35:01):
Well, and while going in without any expectations that
you're going to play at all.
Elle (35:06):
Correct.
Cat (2) (35:06):
Still having set boundaries about if something
does come up, what are we okaywith, just in case.
Because you don't want to be ina situation where.
A couple does approach you or asingle does approach you and do
they want to play with both ofus?
Do they want to play with one ofus?
What do we do?
We need to go in a corner andhave a conversation.
(35:27):
Well, have that conversation asmuch as you can before you even
get there.
So you have a baseline of whatyou are comfortable with and
what you're not comfortablewith.
Elle (35:38):
And I think you bring up a good point is to go in without
expecting that you're going tohave sex with somebody else that
puts a lot of pressure on you.
That makes you more nervous.
I think if you go in and say toeach other, okay, let's meet two
new people and find out moreabout them.
(35:59):
And that helps you to feel morecomfortable about what's going
on.
But at any point, if one of youis not comfortable, if one of
you is not feeling right, if oneof you just isn't feeling the
vibe and you say it's time togo, no harm, no foul, you go.
Because, as Jay likes to say,the most important relationship
(36:20):
in that room is not you and thatorgasm you're going to have,
it's you and your partner andyou have to go home with them
and that's where your priorityneeds to be.
Absolutely.
I
Tramp (36:31):
think you've said previously, Elle, that you go
into these situations having nosex expectations.
Elle (36:37):
Yes.
That's my favorite
Tramp (36:38):
one.
And you really want to just goin with a good attitude and
you're there to have a good timewith your partner.
Correct.
Well, however that looks to you,but you're going in to have a
good time and I would also tagon that on top of a close second
to communicating beforehand.
Don't overindulge.
(36:59):
Oh,
Elle (36:59):
yes, because it's so
Tramp (37:01):
common to have that new couple and you just see there
and one or both of them is justdowning the drinks one after
another, trying to get that
Elle (37:09):
courage
Tramp (37:10):
up.
Yeah.
A little liquid,
Elle (37:11):
a little bit of liquid courage is okay, but
Tramp (37:13):
not a whole bottle.
Elle (37:15):
But too much.
And it comes down.
It's a topic for all of usconsent.
is so huge in the lifestylecommunity.
And it's about having theability to say no if you, if you
wanted to.
And if you've overindulgedbecause you were so nervous,
(37:35):
those are the people that wewill talk to nicely, but nothing
will ever happen.
Because if somehow down the linethey regret, Oh, I didn't mean
to do that.
You've stepped over a boundary.
That person needs to becognizant and willing to give
consent.
Cat (2) (37:51):
Absolutely.
I guess the one other thing thatI would say is that house
parties are amazing for peoplewatching and they're amazing for
kind of soaking in what doesthis even look like?
So So, not going in with theexpectations for sure, but if
you're going in with the hopethat you will at least get to
(38:13):
see how things work and get afeel for things, that's
absolutely fine for a firstexperience.
Yeah.
Just go and watch.
Go see what's happening.
Elle (38:22):
I've never been to a a house party where people were
expected to play.
Cat (2) (38:27):
Right.
Elle (38:28):
They understand, especially if you're new, that
you may just wanna watch andobserve.
And get a feel for it.
And that in itself can be sexyas hell.
Absolutely.
And you go home and enjoyyourselves and you're like, all
right, this'll work.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tramp (38:43):
Love it.
Well, everyone, thank you guysso much for just continuing to
come on this journey.
And it's really cool to see someof the back end stuff, some of
the analytics where it's notjust people in the United
States, but it's.
truly people from all around theworld that listen so from the
bottom of our hearts thank youso much if you would like to
(39:06):
reach out to us even just to sayhi or ask us a question we can
be reached atunapologeticswingers at gmail.
com.
Our website is also www.
unapologeticswingers.
com.
There you can listen to the mostrecent episode or find links to
our partners.
But really what we're gonna askis wherever you happen to be
(39:29):
listening to us, just leave us aquick review that helps us get
the word out more than anythingelse
Elle (39:36):
for sure.
And I have to say after lastepisode, you and I dug into the
analytics of where people were.
listening to us and we had tolook some of these countries up
like we had no idea and Ireally, really want to dig into
where it is and if we seesomebody in the obscure country
or obscure town, listeningagain, hoping it's the same, but
(39:59):
might be more than one person.
But we do really appreciate itand it's very fun.
Tramp (40:05):
Yeah.
Elle (40:05):
Yeah.
Tramp (40:06):
Makes you feel good.
Elle (40:06):
Yeah.
Well, until next time, I'm L and
Tramp (40:10):
I'm the tramp.
Elle (40:11):
Be sexy,
Tramp (40:12):
be confident,
Elle (40:13):
be unapologetic.
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