July 28, 2025 • 48 mins
An unfiltered view into the world of a successful single male in the lifestyle. Sy Swingleton is someone who we're proud to count as a friend.
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Episode Transcript
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Elle (00:03):
Welcome back to Unapologetic Swingers.
I'm L
Tramp (00:06):
and I'm the Tramp.
Just a quick little bit aboutus.
We are just going through thelifestyle, l and j and myself, a
single guy for now.
Mm-hmm.
Elle (00:18):
Exploring, really
Tramp (00:19):
exploring the highs and lows and everything in between.
And I will let Elle introduceour esteemed guest today.
Elle (00:29):
Well, today we are very excited to have our single
friend from the ranch, come andjoin us and talk to us about his
adventures and how he got in thelifestyle and his, Cassidy.
Profile and SDC is s Swinton.
(00:50):
So ladies, you wanna check himout?
I would go on there and take apeek because this is one
handsome, handsome dude.
Sy (00:59):
Well, thank you.
Couples can check me out too.
Elle (01:03):
Okay.
Me We do.
Tramp (01:06):
Well, Cy, thank you so much for taking time outta your
day today, to join us and we'regonna have.
Just some really good discussionthis episode, and I'm excited
about it.
Sounds good.
And thanks for the
Sy (01:18):
invitation.
I look forward to it.
Elle (01:19):
And part of what, tramp and I look for when we're
looking for topics and we'relooking for people to talk to,
and we want somebody with aninteresting story, which is, I
think most people, we wantsomebody who's had some ups and
downs in the lifestyle and hasexperiences because that's what
I feel.
People wanna hear, they wannaknow that, other people have
(01:43):
gone through similar situationsor how somebody might handle
something or how to bestnavigate a situation.
So we're really excited to haveyou on here and we appreciate
that we were able to finally getthis together.
Sounds
Sy (01:57):
good.
And I do have stories and I didenter the lifestyle.
As a married person and thenwound up being a single male.
So we can get into that whenit's time to get into it.
I,
Elle (02:06):
I think that's, as good a segue as anything.
Tell us how you got into thelifestyle.
Sy (02:10):
So at the age of what, roughly?
42.
My, my ex-wife and I went on alittle adventure for my
birthday.
At the end of that adventure, Iwound up at Mon.
I had no.
Idea what it was at
Tramp (02:23):
at that time.
So just for listeners, Mon is a,how would you describe it?
It is
Elle (02:31):
a sex hotel.
Basically.
A sex hotel.
Tramp (02:34):
Yes.
And people have differingopinions of it.
Some love it, some not so much.
Sy (02:40):
Yeah.
Yeah, it was super interestingand I guess.
To add some context to it.
My ex-wife is Mormon, notstereotyping, but as I kind of
thought about it after the fact,it was just pretty interesting.
So we end up at Manlet.
Elle (02:54):
Can I ask a quick question?
Sure.
How did the conversation go?
To get there, like you weregoing out for the evening, did
you end up there or did youstart a conversation and then
look for a place to go?
Gimme some more details.
Sy (03:08):
So the details, I really had no idea.
So my day started off, it was abirthday day, so it started off
where I'm gonna take you to thestore.
I'm a toy collector, I'm a geek.
So I went to a place in Denver,which name is gonna escape me.
It just had a old, a lot ofretro toys.
Okay.
And games.
So we started there and she knewmy favorite food.
(03:30):
We went to get a meal, and aswe're leaving the mill, she
says, you're gonna need swimtrunks and a towel for the next
place we're going to go.
And I'm like, are you gonna tellme no?
And yeah.
And that's exactly what shesaid.
She says, no, just bring swimtrunks.
Wear swim trunks.
I'll bring the towels.
And she has a bag and we pull upto.
(03:50):
What looks like a old motel witha gate.
The gate opens up, we go tocheck in, and I read this little
sign on the door that says youwere an X wristband for
something and X wristband foranother.
And ignorantly, I put awristband on and I think it
later I found out it was like ifyou wanted to be approached or
not be approached, I can'trecall.
(04:11):
And then I sat around a pool andhot tub with a bunch of naked
people.
Some of which were having sex,so,
Elle (04:17):
so at no point before this, did you two have a
conversation about possiblyopening the marriage up or
seeing other people or bringingpeople?
You're shaking your head no.
Yeah, not,
Sy (04:30):
not a one.
Oh wow.
At that time we probably weremarried two years.
Obviously I think for us, a lotof stuff happened organically.
Like we would go out together ona date, be at a club or like on
New Year's Eve and.
I'm kissing her, another girlmight jump in and we all kiss
together.
Okay.
But it was never like aconversation like, Hey, do you
want to consider bringingsomebody in?
(04:52):
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
None of that.
So I got dropped in like a bomb.
Elle (04:57):
And had she been in the lifestyle before, had this been
something or did she havefriends that were in the
lifestyle?
Did you find out later?
Sy (05:03):
I honestly have zero clue.
Like we did not have aconversation about it.
I just made an assumption that.
Being that she was a Mormon.
Again, stereotypically, Iprobably should not have done
that.
Like this was something she wasinterested in.
I'm not gonna lie as a man, I'mnot gonna say no.
I might think about it, butRight.
Yeah.
I wasn't like.
(05:23):
No.
But yeah,
Elle (05:25):
I'm, I'm here, I'm in this situation.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Tramp (05:28):
Navigate it.
Maneuver it.
But that literally makes my headspin on end.
It's, it would be almost akin tosaying, oh, we're gonna go to
Mexico or Jamaica on vacation.
We're going to desire, or heto,and you just walking in and
saying where.
What world did I just findmyself in?
Elle (05:45):
Although I've heard, a couple of stories where they
didn't quite understand whatthey were getting into, into and
show up.
But usually there is a con somesort of conversation.
Yeah, we're
Sy (05:54):
divorced now, so if you say it comes badly, so
Elle (05:57):
I'm, what I'm getting here is there wasn't a conversation,
which tends to be a recurringtheme on our podcast and there
wasn't conversation before andafter, and maybe that probably
should have been happening.
Sy (06:09):
Yeah, and I mean for me, I'm a reader, so I got books about
polyamory, ethical non-monogamyand things like that.
Mm-hmm.
Go, we exchanged those books andjust had a conversation about
it, but as you may or may notknow, like navigating the
lifestyles a couple was a lotdifferent than as a single, so
Sure.
I think true.
We found that out super fast,that it was, it was really hard.
(06:32):
I'm a firm believer no one takesone for the team and
collectively we, we are thatteam,
Tramp (06:36):
that is difficult without the proper conversation and
especially with no prep work.
But it sounds like you made itthrough that initial rough
entry, and maybe you didcommunicate a little bit, but as
I'm sure you're.
Have experienced since?
Probably not to the extent thatyou should have.
Yeah.
Elle (06:54):
Well wait, I wanna go back to the actual night and did you
have an experience that night?
Sy (07:00):
No, I did have an experience, actually my ex-wife
brought the woman to me.
It was a couple we saw.
It was interested in me, us butI could tell by my.
Ex-wife's facial expression.
She was not comfortable with theperson, the other person.
Oh, okay.
Which is weird.
I don't know if she thought justthe female was gonna come to me
'cause we're making out.
Right.
(07:21):
I, I'm assuming it was thefemale's husband, like very
little communication.
And I, I'm not, I don't want to,this is not a manlet thing, but
I would just tell peoplenormally in a lifestyle, this is
not how it works.
Right.
You're, you're not just havingcouples come up to you instantly
start making out or doingthings.
Especially as a single male, Iwould tell you.
It should never be that way.
(07:42):
Yeah.
You want to have thatconversation, you want to have
that consent.
So I just wanna make sure I'mclear.
Like the situation I'mdescribing to you is my early
time.
This is not a normal thing thathappens,
Elle (07:52):
right?
So then from there, how longwere you and she married?
How did you have men?
Any other experiences or is itsomething, and then the marriage
kind of went its way and thenyou were like, well, I kind of
like this whole thing.
Sy (08:06):
Yeah, we were married for five years and got a divorce.
We didn't really have manyexperiences.
After that.
I mean, we dabbled a little bit,but that's what I mean.
It's again, it's hard whenyou're in a couple, I don't
wanna say it's difficult next toimpossible.
It really is because you'retrying to find four people that
are attracted to each other andcan get along, and that's really
(08:27):
not easy.
Tramp (08:29):
Yeah, not as easy as you think.
A true four way connection ispretty elusive, so I don't wanna
say someone is always taking onefor the team, but there's.
Elle (2) (08:37):
Yeah, sometimes
Tramp (08:38):
I put it in my own head when I'm in a coupled situation
where, okay, it's not optimalfor me.
It's not perfect for me, but Ican have fun for, right.
Elle (08:50):
Can still enjoy myself 45,
Tramp (08:51):
60 minutes and have a good experience.
Right.
Elle (08:53):
And then, and it comes back to the com conversion
element too, where it adds toyour enjoyment of the evening
watching your partner.
Enjoying themselves.
Right.
And that, could add to it too.
Sometimes it's the whole packageof what's going on.
But yeah, no one here is anadvocate of taking one for the
team.
Right.
Yeah.
Sy (09:10):
And there's difficulty also too, in that conversion, right?
Where I'll just use ahypothetical someone may be
attracted to me and not my nowex-wife or vice versa.
And some people don't view thatas compersion, right?
Like they're getting upset,like.
What about me?
Does this person not like?
(09:31):
But yeah, it is what it is fromhere.
It is.
Yeah.
No, agreed.
Agreed.
Elle (09:37):
So then, you guys may or may not or whatever, and the
marriage is over, which doeshappen, and you find yourself a
newly single man.
And did you have thoughts duringthe process of going through the
divorce, like, huh, well maybethat's something I will.
Try to gain more informationabout.
Sy (09:58):
Yeah, I did a little bit of reading, but I also got on the
dating apps, the Bumbles, theHinge.
I didn't do Tinder.
What a shit show were those.
I'm sure still to this day, Ihaven't even touched those
Elle (10:10):
pole.
I, I was on, well, actually howI found out about the Life Stole
was dating a guy from Bumble.
So we will thank Bumble forthat.
Yeah.
Sy (10:20):
And I mean, they're good for what they're good for, but for
me, what would happen is I wouldread through women's profiles
and they would say, well, we'relooking for X, Y, and Z.
And I want a gentleman, I wantsomeone for a long-term
relationship.
Only one person I saw, I hate tobe mean, she was not attractive.
Said you need to have a seveninch long be clean shaven.
(10:43):
It was such a well-written.
Profile.
I screenshot it.
I was like, this is amazing.
But what?
And she
Elle (10:49):
knew what she wanted and she spelled it out
Sy (10:51):
and she put it out there.
Okay.
But I think what would happen isI like my first couple dates, I
was dropping a lot of money.
I was truly being a gentleman.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And then as the dates went on,we'd eat dinner, we leave out, I
was walk a woman to her car towhere we have to go and, and do
you wanna come back to my house?
And you know, do the do.
(11:11):
And I'm looking, I'm like, well.
That's not what your profilesays.
Right.
I'm keep going through it andI'm like, we're adults on a, in
a dating app.
Like can't we just be honest inwhat it is that we're looking
for?
Mm-hmm.
One would hope at least.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I decided to.
Dabble back into the lifestylebecause at least within the
(11:32):
lifestyle, at least going to theranch and other places, I have a
general idea of what people arelooking for.
It doesn't mean we don't have aconversation right about it, and
it doesn't mean you may findyour person, per se, in the
lifestyle.
So, but at least for me, it wasjust one additional hurdle.
Like I didn't have to guesswhether or not a person just
(11:53):
wanted me for that time being.
For sex.
Right?
Or for a free meal or, or forwhatever.
What, I hate to say, some peoplecall it dinner and Dick.
Yeah, no, I, I,
Elle (12:06):
coming from the girl's side, we talked about when, Jay
and I went on our first date andon his profile, he said, ladies,
on the first date, I, we goDutch and I, I probably
would've.
The few people, although I'vemet other women, they're like,
yeah, I kind of appreciate that.
'cause going into it, it's thatweird, awkward, well, it's like,
should I assume?
But is that rude to assume?
(12:26):
So knowing, going into it that,pull your wallet out, it's just
part of it.
Yeah.
Just made it easier for me.
But like he said, there was alot of women who just lit him up
for it.
Yeah.
And, and that's unfortunate.
Sy (2) (12:40):
Yeah.
Elle (12:41):
Yeah.
You single guys.
Have a hard time
Tramp (12:46):
now.
Si I would consider you to be asuccessful single male.
Elle (12:52):
Do you feel you're successful?
Do you
Tramp (12:54):
feel you're successful?
Sy (12:55):
I do feel like I'm successful, but I, I think my
reason for my successes, I don'tenter any situation with a.
Preconceived notion.
I don't enter it with a, I hateto use the term body count.
I don't go to any lifestyleevent or situation thinking I'm
going to either get X amount ofwomen or I failed.
(13:17):
So I'm, I'm super laid back.
I'm ceio sexual, so I like tohave an intelligent conversation
with folks.
Mm-hmm.
If it's a couple, I want to getto know both the man and the
woman.
Although I'm, I'm straight.
Like, I just think it'simportant to get to know.
A lot about the people because Idon't want anybody to feel as if
they're disposable because ourcircle, it may seem big to
(13:41):
others.
It's really small, and I wannamake sure the people I interact
with when they see me, again,whether the sex from either of
us is good or bad, that we canstill have a good conversation
and be respectful towards oneanother.
Just again, I just don't wantsomeone to fill their
disposable.
Tramp (13:57):
So two quick points.
L has mentioned before and thiswould be applicable to your
situation, but whenever you gointo a event, it could just be
an evening at Scarlet Ranch orit could be a big lifestyle
event that you may travel to saya takeover, but not to have sex
expectations.
Sy (14:15):
Yeah.
Elle (14:16):
Is that how you go into it?
Yeah.
I have zero
Sy (14:19):
expectations and normally if it's a, like I've been to a
multi-day event in Arizona.
The first day there, I'm gonnafly on the wall.
I'm paying attention toeverybody.
I mean, just observing.
Yeah.
'cause I want to besituationally aware.
I want to like, look around.
I want to see how people moveand function.
(14:39):
It doesn't mean that I'mdisinterested in anybody there.
It's just the way I am.
Some say it's, I'm a slow play.
I guess I will agree with that.
There's times where I'll meetyou and I'm ready to get down to
the get down, but again, I justdon't want people to feel as if
they're being e objectified andthey're disposable.
'cause I hate to say it, likesometimes that happens to me.
So I, I know how it feels,
Elle (15:00):
right?
And you never want somebody tofeel that way.
So, yeah, you're definitely aslow role.
Yeah.
I will, I'll give you this hat.
Four years.
Four years, man.
It took us four years.
But, but also you are respectfuland I think that coming from a
spouse of a woman that you mightbe interested in.
(15:22):
That is kind of nice for themtoo, is you're not coming in for
a hit it and quit it and moveon.
You're not doing a body countand you're not just trying to
get off one night.
You have to have a connection.
You've got to be able to feellike there's, something and
there's respect and then, yeah.
I'm very sapiosexual too.
You gotta have it up in thehead.
(15:42):
You've got to make me laugh, youknow.
Challenge me, make me, have aconversation with you.
And it's not just, Hey, let'sjust, you're hot, let's go
downstairs.
Sy (15:54):
Yeah.
And don't be fake with iteither.
Like, it's God, no.
For me, it's not fake, like it'sgenuine.
Like I really want to get toknow the people.
Agreed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tramp (16:02):
I'm, I'm much the same way.
Absolutely.
Mm-hmm.
And the second point I wanted tomake was when you have, even if
it's a tight social circle.
But everyone thinks highly ofyou.
You are going to getintroductions, you're gonna get
opportunities, right?
Instead of just being that guywho's there to get down and not
(16:24):
follow through.
So you, send the, lady awaysmiling and you're, you're able
to fist bump the husband andhave a good conversation.
And not only will you be welcomeback, but yeah, they're gonna
introduce you.
Hey.
I know this friend.
Sy (16:40):
Yeah.
The lifestyle's no differentthan, I hate even calling it the
lifestyle sometimes.
It's no different than yourpersonal life if you know how to
network.
It's literally networking.
Oh, for sure.
Right.
It's a friend of a friend andyou may not gotten along with a
couple, but they don't thinkbadly of you.
They may say, oh, you might bebetter suited for X, or We want
to introduce you to a friend.
And that's literally how I'vemet.
(17:02):
Everyone.
I've just met some folks thispast that are like six people.
That way, like I'm gonnaintroduce you to a friend of a
friend of a friend.
And then it just goes fromthere.
And so now we're incommunication.
So that's how it works.
Tramp (17:15):
And I would I venture to say that that is how the
successful single male navigatesthis lifestyle.
Elle (17:25):
You know what?
That brings up a good point.
So there's a number of singleguys at the ranch mm-hmm.
That will talk to people that weknow, and interact.
And there's a number of singleguys.
Who literally just don't.
If you were to give some adviceto the guys that just show up,
go downstairs, I mean, you don'teven know that they're there and
then all of a sudden they'restanding right there.
(17:46):
What would be your advice togive to them?
Sy (17:48):
I would first say if you're, it's your first time to ranch,
it may be somewhat overwhelming.
Sure.
In your mind, you may have thisnotion that, oh, I'm gonna go on
here and it's gonna be.
A party.
Well, it is a party, but it'snot a party for everyone.
Very true.
So you, so you have to kind ofobserve, and I would just say if
you find someone you'reinterested in, and I'll just use
(18:10):
a couple scenario.
Remember that female or thatwife has a husband.
So you can't just solely focuson her.
You need to have a conversationwith both.
So I'll just use like a realworld example.
Like if, if I see a, a womanthat I'm interested in and she's
married, I'm just gonna approachher with something simple like,
(18:31):
Hey, that's a nice dress.
Mm-hmm.
Nice hat, nice outfit.
Because a lot of people dress upfor the occasion.
Turn and introduce myself to thehusband.
Mm-hmm.
And then the conversation justgoes from there.
I don't ask them what theirdynamic is.
I actually at this point, don'tcare.
No, this is your first timehere.
How are you enjoying it?
The food is great.
Mm-hmm.
(18:51):
It's, it's small talk and it'snot fake small talk.
It's just getting to know them.
It's a genuine
Elle (18:58):
interest in somebody else.
Right.
Sy (18:59):
And there may be a time I may have that conversation and
leave.
Yeah.
Because for me, sometimes it'sthat era of mystery.
I can tell sometimes people'sbody language, whether or not, I
hate to say it, the person orpeople are interested in me.
Right.
So I pay attention to bodylanguage and I might just walk
away'cause I know I'm gonna see'em again.
(19:20):
'cause there's so many peoplethere most of the time Sure.
That are passing, gonna crossagain.
Mm-hmm.
Elle (19:25):
What about you tramp?
Having.
Balanced around as a single guy.
Sure.
Over the last oh, almost a year.
Mm-hmm.
If you could give advice tosomebody to make things easier
for everybody, what would yousay?
Tramp (19:40):
I would say, and unfortunately this is why the
single male gets such a bad rap,is learn how to talk, learn how
to conversate.
And quite frankly, if you thinkyour actions may be creepy,
they're creepy.
Yeah.
If every Friday, Saturday night,even some Sunday fun days, you
(20:04):
can tell certain single menright away.
Either they'll sit at the barand then they'll do the circle,
and then they'll go back and sitat the bar.
Or they will just stand therealmost like they're surveying.
Elle (20:17):
Right.
Do they think they're invisible?
Sy (20:20):
They navigate like sharks with blood in the water,
unfortunately, that's kind ofwhat they do.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
Tramp (20:24):
As a single male, I would never imagine just going
downstairs to hang out.
That's just, and for those notin the know, the downstairs is
the play area, so yeah, you cansee stuff.
But I have never seen in my timea single, single male.
(20:45):
Just get, Hey, come on in.
The water's warm.
Elle (20:48):
I've seen it twice.
Sy (20:49):
I was gonna say pause'cause I've been offered and said Yeah,
like it, I've, I've seen it.
I've had, when I dated someoneon the lifestyle, we were down
there.
We were going into a room andsomeone said, Hey, do you need a
third?
And I'm thinking to, so did Iask?
Like, I mean, but Yeah.
But yeah, I get what you'resaying.
It's, it's rare that it, ithappens.
Elle (21:08):
Yeah.
And it does.
Which, then gives fodder to thatguy thinking, oh, well this
could, you know, this couldhappen again.
Mm-hmm.
Or, I saw that happen to so andso, or whatever.
I don't even think they talk toeach other.
I, I feel like they walk aroundlike they are invisible and no
one can see them and they'rejust do observing their own
little peep show.
Yeah.
But when they stand like threefeet from you or Right
(21:31):
practically in your face, it's,yeah.
By the way, we see you.
Yes.
Yeah.
I
Sy (21:36):
had a single male one time.
He was new there.
He said his question, I knew hewas gonna have a problem that
night, so what does a guy needto do to get laid here?
Mm-hmm.
That's, I said, well, a changethat mindset.
And I said, let things, allowthings to flow organically.
Then I just told him the samething.
I told you all, there's acouple, make sure you're
speaking to both.
(21:57):
The wife and the husband, ifit's a single female, don't
approach her as if, if she's apiece of meat, have a
conversation with these folks.
Yeah, yeah.
Tramp (22:08):
These
Sy (22:08):
are people.
People
Tramp (22:09):
Everyone may be there roughly for the same reason,
right?
Or some are wallflowers or someare first timers and they just
want the immersive experience.
But I would say everyone.
Kind of has the same roughmindset and your correct side.
You don't treat'em like a pieceof meat.
You treat'em as a person andmm-hmm.
You try to engage them not only,first on the mental level and
(22:32):
then if you're getting thesignals, then you start to break
the touch barrier and start toget physical.
But not until those signs areclear.
Sy (22:44):
Right.
Yeah.
Consent is always paramount.
I, I, I tell people that it isalways like,
Tramp (22:50):
now, okay, that brings up something very just kind of
popped into my mind.
Consent is paramount.
I wholeheartedly agree, but Iwould argue that women can get
away with a lot more than men.
Yeah.
And I 1000% agree with
Elle (23:09):
you.
Oh yeah.
Whether, and it's, and, and, andhonestly, as a woman, with a
woman coming to you, it's notalways welcome.
I mean, you need to still havethat consent, but we do push
those barriers more than weshould.
Right.
On, on men and women, I thinkthere is a, a sense of not
entitlement, but No, it'sentitlement.
I think so.
Okay.
All right.
Entitlement.
(23:29):
Yeah.
We'll go with that.
Yeah.
That, okay, well,, who's gonnasay no?
Yeah.
Whether it's, you should stillbe able to say no.
Tramp (23:35):
Sure.
But yeah.
Whether it's, it's a womanslapping a guy's ass as he walks
by.
Yeah.
And chances are the guy is justgonna brush it off.
He may give a smile or whatever,and then go about his business.
But yeah, the reverse situationhappens, and chances are
there'll be a little hell topay, but
Sy (23:53):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I get, I hate to say it likeI get touched a lot.
And I do have personal space,and I think not too long ago, I
just had to kind of correctpeople and like, I'm no
different than anybody else.
You don't get to come up andtouch me and rub me.
It doesn't work that way.
Yeah.
I mean, just So they said, well,what do we need to do to touch?
I said a ask that, that's reallysimple.
(24:14):
You can ask me.
Yeah.
And if, if I'm open to it, I'llallow you to do it, but just
don't come up and touch me.
I said, because if the role wasreversed, I'd be kicked outta
here.
So let's not do that.
Elle (24:25):
No, 100%.
Mm-hmm.
And, we have to remember that.
So I think that's a good, a goodthing to say.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But you are fun to touch.
Just gonna say that.
So okay.
So what is it that you arelooking for?
Are you just looking to exploreand have a good time?
(24:46):
Are you looking for.
Someone to share it with you.
Tell us a little bit about howwould this look for you?
Sy (24:53):
So for context, I just got out of a, probably a little bit
over a year long relationshipwith someone I met in the
lifestyle.
So, but again, we met exclusiveto each other.
That wasn't my expectation, butthat's okay.
Things happen.
Now that I'm, I'm single again.
I can't really say what it isI'm looking for.
Would I like to find someone alifestyle?
(25:15):
I think it would be great, butit is not the end all be all.
Like I don't wanna force someoneto say, you either like this or
you don't.
Mm-hmm.
But I also in that same vein,don't want a person that I meet
in the lifestyle expect me justto get out.
I like to travel, I like to goto the various events, but I
also understand that if I werelike in a relationship with
(25:35):
someone.
I'm going to need to spend timewith that person.
So they're not gonna say, Hey, ssee when you get back in three
days from a hot wife event.
Mm-hmm.
Or they might, depends what typeof communication we have in that
relationship.
To answer your question, I'mlooking for someone who's overly
communicative.
Mm-hmm.
So we can have theseconversations.
(25:56):
Maybe again, if I'm in a couple,we can do.
That situation where we may swapor just kind of explore with
other couples, I think it wouldbe good, but I just think
whoever that person may be, wejust have to learn to
communicate.
And the other thing is justtrust.
I've been in the lifestyle noweight years.
(26:17):
So I know a lot of people thereshouldn't be an expectation if I
meet you in a lifestyle andyou're relatively new, that I'm
gonna cut off all my friends.
Mm-hmm.
And people I know because thatputs me in a bad spot.
And when I say cut off notsexually, like they can no
longer be my friends becausethere's no trust.
But I say all that to say I'menjoying being single right now.
(26:38):
I won't say I'm not activelylooking to be in a relationship.
Again, being organic.
If it happens, it will.
If it doesn't, I'll be okay.
Mm-hmm.
So,
Tramp (26:47):
and the thing is, you may never know it's something could
literally fall into your lap andall of a sudden you're just
like, holy crap, there it is.
All
Elle (26:57):
cylinders are firing.
Right?
Tramp (26:58):
Yeah.
That's, that's something fun.
I more broadly in life, whetherit be professionally or
personally, sometimes it's allabout the adventure.
Sy (27:07):
Yeah.
Tramp (27:07):
Yeah.
Elle (27:08):
I agree.
So, okay.
Tell me the worst story thatever happened.
Like a precautionary tale.
We, you know, we like to hearthe horror stories sometimes.
Sy (27:22):
Hmm.
I'm trying to think if I have ahorror story.
Oh, I do.
We all have to that, I mean, youknow, fair, and I won't call it
a horror story, it was just verysuspect.
Okay.
Met what I believed at the timeto be a single female.
And I drove up to the FortCollins area really close.
A single female had me meet herat a furniture store, which
(27:44):
struck me as odd as it should.
Yeah, it struck me as odd.
Yeah.
I, from there, I then left mycar, got into her car, and went
back to her place.
So it was a couple things thatraise red flags.
A my car is a couple minutesaway from where we're going.
Inaccessible.
Yeah.
B I'm like.
Man, like why did I have to todo this?
(28:07):
So I'm super observant.
I'm looking at pictures that areleft out of family members.
So I see there's children.
I'm like, okay, if there'schildren, that means someone
help make that child.
And generally, and I'm like,okay, I'm looking around.
I go use the restroom, I lookaround, make sure nothing's in
the restroom, is sharp oranything like that.
And I'm like, okay, do I reallywanna do this?
(28:27):
'cause pretty much I'm stuckhere right now.
So it was only odd.
For that reason, I assumed shewas married.
I don't know that withcertainty, but I, I, that was
only one of my worst storiesbecause I was literally life
kind of naked, right?
No car.
I literally, like in my phonetexts, left, right, left this
(28:50):
street to get back to my car.
Like I was in a very odd spot,and I don't think a lot of
couples understand when you'reasking a single male.
Someone will actually go to ahotel.
I hate doing that.
I mean, I have a home.
If you wanna come over, you can,but like to go to your place,
that's a lot of trust put intogoing to a couple's house,
(29:10):
right?
Of course.
Sure.
Right.
So it was that thing.
So I would say that's my worst,which is not bad in comparison
to others.
So, yeah.
Elle (29:18):
Okay.
What about your best?
I was gonna say, what about thebest?
Oh, I was lining it up.
Sy (29:24):
I'll have to try to quickly tell you two.
I, I met a couple.
A great couple.
I would spend a lot of time withthem, but this is what I mean,
what made them good.
When we met we just had generalconversations about family,
what's going on in life andthings of that nature.
Unfortunately the male halfwasn't able to perform due to a
(29:46):
medical condition.
And so I, I got to spend a lotof time with a wife.
I liked it because again, wewere more so friends mm-hmm.
Than anything.
And again, it wasn't like, Hey,s come on over, we need you for,
for tonight.
It was like, are you busy?
We meet up and then sometimes wewould meet and not do anything.
(30:09):
I would say my second good storyand I went to an event hosted by
Jeannie Wishes.
I believe it, it was a hot wifeevent.
In Tucson, Arizona.
I give them a plug, but I don'tknow if plugs are allowed and I
can't remember their new date.
No, we're fine with that.
But it was a good experiencebecause I'd met them, actually,
I met, I'm gonna try to makethis story short.
I met a couple of the day prioron sa Saturday at the ranch.
(30:32):
A female came and got me and inme introduced me to this group
sitting in a cabana.
And it was so, I got a weirdvibe.
So I get everybody's name andthen.
People disappeared like roacheswith the lights on.
Tramp (30:45):
Oh, that is weird.
Sy (30:45):
It was weird.
So what I found out is I wasbeing interviewed to be able to
go to the event in Tucson.
So what they do is theyinterview the, single males.
They ask you, what do you do fora living?
Honestly, like they're seeinghow well spoken you are.
They, they watch how younavigate the ranch, like Right,
right.
They told me like, we saw youstanding there.
You were like.
(31:06):
Really kind of chill and calm.
We didn't, you seem to knowpeople and not do anything.
So they were basically scoutingyou.
Oh, they were scouting me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well that's interesting.
They were scouting me.
So I then flew to Tucson and metprobably, thus far, probably one
of the most beautiful women I'vemet ever like, and the
(31:28):
lifestyle.
And again, I'm very nonchalant,laid back, she stops up and
talks to me, she says.
Are you not vibing that I'minterested in you?
This is like day two of theevent.
I'm like, honestly, no, I'm notpaying attention.
She says, well, what is yourroom number?
I told her, she says, tonightI'm coming to get you.
Leave the door unlocked.
(31:50):
So my night ends a little bitearly'cause I'm tired.
I get a knock on my door.
I see this silhouette comes inand she came and got me.
And when she got me, she got meand she took me back to her
room.
And it was, it was great, butsuper beautiful woman.
Like wow, super, superbeautiful.
So yeah, that was a great story.
(32:11):
It's super memorable for me.
I probably will visit that eventagain.
It is a good event experience.
Yeah, it was a great experience.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So
Elle (32:19):
would you say that you appreciate it when a woman is
more assertive with you or
Sy (32:26):
I I think it depends who.
The woman is, I would just tellyou, the majority of the women
I've been with lately have allbeen assertive., She grabbed me.
I didn't know she was marrieduntil later that night.
Uhhuh, and we wind up talking.
We played that that evening.
But I think the majority of thewomen that I've been with most
recent have been superassertive.
(32:46):
They've come up, introducedyourself to me.
Sat by me.
We've just had a conversation.
So long answer to a shortquestion.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
That's
Tramp (32:55):
admittedly a problem I have, recognizing that a woman
is interested and then by thesame token, putting out that
vibe.
Where I'm interested, but Idon't necessarily make the
approach.
Elle (33:09):
Right so that they know,
Tramp (33:10):
so that they know.
Coming
Elle (33:11):
from a non-fire starter, it is helpful when you guys tell
me that you're interested, justso you know.
Yeah.
But I guess I have a question
Sy (33:18):
for you, Trent.
So like in that situationthough, are you more kind of
standoffish because you alsoknow that woman has a spouse and
you don't know their dynamic?
Tramp (33:30):
No, not necessarily.
Okay.
I.
When I'm at the ranch, forexample, or any club, I look for
my social circle and the peoplethat I integrate with, and I can
have good conversations and I'llcompliment just, just as you
said, Sy compliment the womanon, that's a really sexy dress,
or I love your earrings, orsomething to that effect.
(33:53):
But beyond that, I have a hardtime crossing over that Rubicon.
To let my actual intent beknown.
And I know there are some guyswho are not only physically
attractive, so they already havethat in.
But just have this charisma andalmost very aggressive that some
women fall for almost, and theyrespond to very well.
Elle (34:15):
Well, what makes it easier for them as long as they're
interested in that person.
Mm-hmm.
So, I mean, it's funny, we'restill, junior high.
Dance thing, where we're, you'restill trying to figure out if
somebody's interested and whereyou can go with that and what
somebody is available for.
Tramp (34:33):
Right.
You know, and it's such a fineline where I wanna say, I wish I
just gave less fucks, but thenby the token, I don't want to
alienate.
Yeah.
You know, the, the people thatare already in my social circle,
but I don't know if Inecessarily would, to be
perfectly honest.
Sy (34:48):
Yeah, I jokingly, but seriously tell people to say,
well, what was the best thingyou ever said to a woman?
And I said, sometimes there'snothing at all.
I don't say anything.
I'm looking at body language.
I look at your eyes, I can hearreally well.
So when I walk by, if you saysomething to me I've heard it, I
may not acknowledge it untillater.
Because again, some are.
(35:10):
Uncomfortable with approachingyou and, and I try to break the
ice.
There's people sometimes who Iknow are afraid to approach me,
and I've had males tell me I'mintimidating.
I
Elle (35:21):
Well, I was just gonna say that even as a female, like, oh,
this, you know, both of youhandsome men, like, oh, will
they even be interested in me?
I can see how some women mightbe holding back.
Because they just think, well, Idon't know if I have a chance.
Sy (35:37):
And for me, I would say they don't need to.
I'm never gonna shut down aconversation.
Yeah, I know ever.
Like I just think I'm open totalk to anyone to get to learn
about you.
Who knows?
Like I may be the person whogives you a tour.
I may be the person who is I,I'd met someone unfortunately
one time who was, was dealingwith the death of a spouse.
(35:58):
I just sat with that person.
I didn't need to.
Play and they had not been outin months.
Yeah, I'm open to doing that.
Like for me, at the end of theday, it's not always about sex.
And, and just being a, a goodlistener.
Elle (36:11):
I agree.
Most of the time when we go, Ihave no plans on playing.
Yeah.
I just wanna be around peopleand, and having an exciting
night and maybe feel good aboutmyself or help somebody feel
good about themselves.
It's, it's rarely with a planthat I've gotta play that night.
Tramp (36:28):
Yeah.
Right.
I would almost say in closingthat the folks in the lifestyle,
broadly speaking, are some ofthe best people you'll ever
meet.
A hundred agree.
Yep.
And in the past, that's whatkept me going back to Desire and
the ranch and all these placeswhere you may never know who
you're gonna meet, butguaranteed you're, going to come
(36:48):
home smiling.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just such a good experience.
Yeah.
Someone's
Elle (36:51):
gonna make you happy that you went.
Tramp (36:53):
Agree.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
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(37:16):
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So Cy, what I want to do next iswe do have an a MA this week so
(38:23):
this a MA is from the mountainfoxes and their question is, in
the lifestyle, you're going tosee something happen with your
partner that may be unexpected,whether it could be a new
position for them or a, areaction from them that you
don't get.
So you may have some personalfeelings on that, or maybe they
(38:45):
are all of a sudden super vocalduring an orgasm or they're with
a gentleman who is quite sizableand you may not be as.
Rather this could be positive ornegative.
But not only how did you react,but how did you recover after
the fact?
Elle (39:03):
For me unfortunately I can only think of a not so positive
situation.
And it wasn't that I saw it andwas there, I was outta town and.
Jay had gone to the ranch and wehad talked about that there
would be an opportunity to playwhile I was gone and, and we had
talked about it.
But we really hadn't talkedspecifics and of what would be
(39:25):
okay and what would not.
And so sometimes you don't knowuntil it actually happens.
And I had come back from thetrip and he's telling me about
his adventures and he had playedwith a, a couple that we knew
and there was a single gal thatwas there.
Playing with all of them.
And then the couple left and hewent back downstairs and played
with a single gal.
And it kind of hit me hard thatwait.
(39:47):
Hmm.
I'm sorry.
You played with a single galI've never met before and so I,
I've, I, if something goes awry,I'm never gonna blow up at the
ranch.
I'm never gonna, in thatsituation I will think about it
for a while and try to figureout what is it about it that I'm
not okay with.
Because sometimes you don'tknow.
(40:08):
Mm-hmm.
And so we talked about it or Ithought about it for a little
bit and then we talked about itand it's like, okay.
I think that we need to justhave some guidelines.
If one of us is traveling andthe other is at the ranch, if
it's situations that we have notpreviously discussed, that
somebody that I don't know, I'venever met is.
(40:30):
Maybe off limits until a laterdate.
Doesn't mean that it's notsomething that will happen down
the line, but it would besomething that you might need to
say, Hey, listen.
Ellen and I have an agreementthat if she's outta town and I'm
at the ranch, that anopportunity comes up and it's
not somebody that she knows thatit's something that we need to
(40:51):
put on hold until a later date.
And maybe you start aconversation, then maybe the
three of us get to dinner andget to know each other and go
from there.
It's that not knowing thatperson that just didn't sit
right with me.
Yeah.
Sy (41:04):
And.
I'm a single guy, so the onlything I can really think that is
close is normally I'll takesingle females with me to events
and I make sure, and this is,could be someone I'm interested
in maybe dating or getting toknow.
And so prior to, we'll just havea conversation like, what are
you open to both individuallyand is it together?
If I see somebody, I knowthey're, they're interested in
(41:27):
playing, is that okay?
And so it just comes back tothat communication piece.
And again, I'm protective by, bynature.
So I've been in situations wherelike a female friend of mine
will be playing maybe withanother female in a group and
someone will come and touch themthat they don't know or try to
insert themself in a group.
(41:47):
And I'm just gonna be honest,like I kind of check that person
to make sure that theyunderstand that this is not how
it functions, but I do it moreso for the reason.
As single guys, we get a badrap, so.
We're already fighting againstthe stereotype.
You know, the, the bad appleshave ruined the bunch.
Sure.
And so what I want, if anything,is to teach these single males
(42:10):
like a lesson to say like,listen, this is not how you act.
You don't put your hands among,you get consent.
You don't act pushy.
I mean, there may be some timeswhere people say they want a
bull or something like that, butyou still can do all these
things and remain respectful.
And for me, you have to stayrespectful throughout that.
Tramp (42:28):
So, no, I think that's incredible insight there.
I would say, and this is just myown personal view and specific
to me is I am naturallycoersive, which means I take
great pleasure in my partner'spleasure.
It doesn't mean I want to beleft out, but I can sit back for
a minute and just kind ofobserve and if she's having a
(42:49):
good time, that's a lot of fun.
And then I like to get involved.
If there's a situation that youhave not discussed, and again,
as l and I seem to hammer onevery single episode is every
one is is the communicationaspect.
If it's a new situation, unlessit's completely just beyond the
pale, a lot of people would bejust to end the interaction.
(43:12):
Pull your partner out.
I'll let it play out.
And then because I'm so partnerpleasure driven, I'm still going
to enjoy to a certain extent.
And then we'll have thatconversation after, everything
has settled, all the hormoneshave left the brain and you're
kind of back to earth, per se.
(43:34):
But yeah, I think in all of ourcases.
It still just boils down to thatcore concept of communication.
Yeah.
And
Sy (43:41):
I've been in those, pull your partner out situations
where I'm with mm-hmm.
The wife and something clicksand the next thing I know
everything is shut down and likeI'm standing there like, I don't
know what's going on.
Right.
Was that part of that dynamic?
Yeah.
I feel bad.
Yeah.
And yeah.
Yeah.
I've been, I've been in thosesituations and it's weird.
Elle (44:01):
I think unless it's a a true disregard for the partner's
feelings in a situation,sometimes things happen and it's
kind of key to not throw thedrama gauntlet down and, and
take a moment and take a breath,figure out maybe what it is.
(44:21):
Ease that person out and havethat conversation of something
that's upsetting, then, havethat conversation maybe in
another area as opposed to infront of everybody.
So many people, will do areaction and it kind of ruins it
for everybody and they don'tnecessarily know what that
problem was or why thathappened.
Tramp (44:41):
We've all met those couples usually, very briefly,
the lifestyle where they just,quite frankly, bring a lot of
drama.
Yeah.
And they, us hopefully, theyusually show themselves out.
Yeah.
And those are the
Sy (44:54):
people I never interact with, ever get, I'll say hi to
'em, but that's pretty much it.
The buck stops there.
No.
Right.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Elle (45:01):
We, we had a situation where Jay and I we met a, a
young couple that were new tothe lifestyle.
We had had some dinner with.
With the gentleman brought hisgirlfriend, she was trying to
figure out if this was somethingshe wanted to do.
And at the end of dinner withthe four of us, I guess she
really wanted to try and playwith me.
And I'm trying to think if I'veeven said this story.
I feel like I might've told it.
But anyway, we, we said, okay,'cause she wanted to play with a
(45:24):
girl.
It's like, okay, well thenthat'll be, you know, so I'll
play with Jay, she'll play withhim, but she wanted to kiss and
maybe do some touching and allthat.
So we were open to that.
And so we had at that.
We had played.
It was a, a very nice, sweetsituation and she got to explore
a little bit and we're allgetting dressed and getting
ready to go upstairs, and all Idid was lean over and give him a
(45:47):
kiss.
It wasn't like I made out withhim.
I didn't stick my tongue downhis throat.
It was like, thank you for anenjoyable evening.
And I guess she just lost hershit.
Yeah.
And the next day he was textingJay saying she doesn't want
anything to do with me anymore,blah, blah.
And it's like, oh, you guysmight wanna have that, more of
that conversation.
I, I didn't do anything wrong.
(46:09):
I didn't do anything outside ofa boundary I don't feel, but
that.
Is an awkward situation to bein.
Sy (46:18):
I hate to use the term leash, but sometimes a leash is
longer.
Yeah.
Depending on the person, right?
Between the people.
I would agree.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tramp (46:27):
Well, interesting.
Fantastic.
So Cy, thank you so much for
Elle (46:31):
Yeah.
Tramp (46:31):
Joining us.
Thanks for, and if you're soinclined, would you go ahead and
share your socials if you, ifyou feel like getting some
additional traffic in your ownbox?
Sy (46:40):
Highly on Cassidy and s SDC I'm s Swinton.
It's all one word.
It starts with a SY Swinton,just like it sounds.
Yep.
I have questions.
Fantastic.
Tramp (46:51):
We'll talk later.
And we're, I'm actually kind ofcurious to see how much.
Extra bandwidth you get there, Ihope.
Sy (46:57):
We'll see.
I'm open to communication.
As I tell folks, I'm super laidback.
I'm open to talk about anything,even if you're a single male.
I like women, but I will justtell you, like if I can give you
pointers to kind of navigate it,I'm a hundred percent open to to
doing it.
I use successful in a adifferent way.
I want you to be successful.
And successful doesn't alwaysmean sexually successful.
It just means to be able tonavigate.
(47:19):
Yeah.
This space.
Mm-hmm.
And just respect.
And so you can meet friends, youmeet the best people in your
life.
And I
Elle (47:26):
think that's, so important.
The ability to give somebodyelse some knowledge and some
information to help theirjourney a little bit better, I
think is very gracious.
And that helps all of us.
Yeah.
Tramp (47:40):
Yeah.
Well, excellent.
So guys, thank you just so muchfor continuing to come on this
journey with us.
If you guys need to contact us,we can be reached at
unapologetic swingers@gmail.com.
Our website is also unapologeticswingers.com, and the biggest
ask that we have is wherever youhappen to be listening to us,
(48:02):
just leave us a quick reviewthat does more for us than quite
frankly, anything.
Elle (48:08):
For sure.
Maybe just our egos, but we'lltake it.
Until next time, I'm l and I'm
Tramp (48:15):
the tramp.
Elle (48:15):
Be sexy, be
Tramp (48:16):
confident,
Elle (48:17):
be unapologetic.
Welcome back to Unapologetic Swingers.
I'm L
Tramp (00:06):
and I'm the Tramp.
Just a quick little bit aboutus.
We are just going through thelifestyle, l and j and myself, a
single guy for now.
Mm-hmm.
Elle (00:18):
Exploring, really
Tramp (00:19):
exploring the highs and lows and everything in between.
And I will let Elle introduceour esteemed guest today.
Elle (00:29):
Well, today we are very excited to have our single
friend from the ranch, come andjoin us and talk to us about his
adventures and how he got in thelifestyle and his, Cassidy.
Profile and SDC is s Swinton.
(00:50):
So ladies, you wanna check himout?
I would go on there and take apeek because this is one
handsome, handsome dude.
Sy (00:59):
Well, thank you.
Couples can check me out too.
Elle (01:03):
Okay.
Me We do.
Tramp (01:06):
Well, Cy, thank you so much for taking time outta your
day today, to join us and we'regonna have.
Just some really good discussionthis episode, and I'm excited
about it.
Sounds good.
And thanks for the
Sy (01:18):
invitation.
I look forward to it.
Elle (01:19):
And part of what, tramp and I look for when we're
looking for topics and we'relooking for people to talk to,
and we want somebody with aninteresting story, which is, I
think most people, we wantsomebody who's had some ups and
downs in the lifestyle and hasexperiences because that's what
I feel.
People wanna hear, they wannaknow that, other people have
(01:43):
gone through similar situationsor how somebody might handle
something or how to bestnavigate a situation.
So we're really excited to haveyou on here and we appreciate
that we were able to finally getthis together.
Sounds
Sy (01:57):
good.
And I do have stories and I didenter the lifestyle.
As a married person and thenwound up being a single male.
So we can get into that whenit's time to get into it.
I,
Elle (02:06):
I think that's, as good a segue as anything.
Tell us how you got into thelifestyle.
Sy (02:10):
So at the age of what, roughly?
42.
My, my ex-wife and I went on alittle adventure for my
birthday.
At the end of that adventure, Iwound up at Mon.
I had no.
Idea what it was at
Tramp (02:23):
at that time.
So just for listeners, Mon is a,how would you describe it?
It is
Elle (02:31):
a sex hotel.
Basically.
A sex hotel.
Tramp (02:34):
Yes.
And people have differingopinions of it.
Some love it, some not so much.
Sy (02:40):
Yeah.
Yeah, it was super interestingand I guess.
To add some context to it.
My ex-wife is Mormon, notstereotyping, but as I kind of
thought about it after the fact,it was just pretty interesting.
So we end up at Manlet.
Elle (02:54):
Can I ask a quick question?
Sure.
How did the conversation go?
To get there, like you weregoing out for the evening, did
you end up there or did youstart a conversation and then
look for a place to go?
Gimme some more details.
Sy (03:08):
So the details, I really had no idea.
So my day started off, it was abirthday day, so it started off
where I'm gonna take you to thestore.
I'm a toy collector, I'm a geek.
So I went to a place in Denver,which name is gonna escape me.
It just had a old, a lot ofretro toys.
Okay.
And games.
So we started there and she knewmy favorite food.
(03:30):
We went to get a meal, and aswe're leaving the mill, she
says, you're gonna need swimtrunks and a towel for the next
place we're going to go.
And I'm like, are you gonna tellme no?
And yeah.
And that's exactly what shesaid.
She says, no, just bring swimtrunks.
Wear swim trunks.
I'll bring the towels.
And she has a bag and we pull upto.
(03:50):
What looks like a old motel witha gate.
The gate opens up, we go tocheck in, and I read this little
sign on the door that says youwere an X wristband for
something and X wristband foranother.
And ignorantly, I put awristband on and I think it
later I found out it was like ifyou wanted to be approached or
not be approached, I can'trecall.
(04:11):
And then I sat around a pool andhot tub with a bunch of naked
people.
Some of which were having sex,so,
Elle (04:17):
so at no point before this, did you two have a
conversation about possiblyopening the marriage up or
seeing other people or bringingpeople?
You're shaking your head no.
Yeah, not,
Sy (04:30):
not a one.
Oh wow.
At that time we probably weremarried two years.
Obviously I think for us, a lotof stuff happened organically.
Like we would go out together ona date, be at a club or like on
New Year's Eve and.
I'm kissing her, another girlmight jump in and we all kiss
together.
Okay.
But it was never like aconversation like, Hey, do you
want to consider bringingsomebody in?
(04:52):
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
None of that.
So I got dropped in like a bomb.
Elle (04:57):
And had she been in the lifestyle before, had this been
something or did she havefriends that were in the
lifestyle?
Did you find out later?
Sy (05:03):
I honestly have zero clue.
Like we did not have aconversation about it.
I just made an assumption that.
Being that she was a Mormon.
Again, stereotypically, Iprobably should not have done
that.
Like this was something she wasinterested in.
I'm not gonna lie as a man, I'mnot gonna say no.
I might think about it, butRight.
Yeah.
I wasn't like.
(05:23):
No.
But yeah,
Elle (05:25):
I'm, I'm here, I'm in this situation.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Tramp (05:28):
Navigate it.
Maneuver it.
But that literally makes my headspin on end.
It's, it would be almost akin tosaying, oh, we're gonna go to
Mexico or Jamaica on vacation.
We're going to desire, or heto,and you just walking in and
saying where.
What world did I just findmyself in?
Elle (05:45):
Although I've heard, a couple of stories where they
didn't quite understand whatthey were getting into, into and
show up.
But usually there is a con somesort of conversation.
Yeah, we're
Sy (05:54):
divorced now, so if you say it comes badly, so
Elle (05:57):
I'm, what I'm getting here is there wasn't a conversation,
which tends to be a recurringtheme on our podcast and there
wasn't conversation before andafter, and maybe that probably
should have been happening.
Sy (06:09):
Yeah, and I mean for me, I'm a reader, so I got books about
polyamory, ethical non-monogamyand things like that.
Mm-hmm.
Go, we exchanged those books andjust had a conversation about
it, but as you may or may notknow, like navigating the
lifestyles a couple was a lotdifferent than as a single, so
Sure.
I think true.
We found that out super fast,that it was, it was really hard.
(06:32):
I'm a firm believer no one takesone for the team and
collectively we, we are thatteam,
Tramp (06:36):
that is difficult without the proper conversation and
especially with no prep work.
But it sounds like you made itthrough that initial rough
entry, and maybe you didcommunicate a little bit, but as
I'm sure you're.
Have experienced since?
Probably not to the extent thatyou should have.
Yeah.
Elle (06:54):
Well wait, I wanna go back to the actual night and did you
have an experience that night?
Sy (07:00):
No, I did have an experience, actually my ex-wife
brought the woman to me.
It was a couple we saw.
It was interested in me, us butI could tell by my.
Ex-wife's facial expression.
She was not comfortable with theperson, the other person.
Oh, okay.
Which is weird.
I don't know if she thought justthe female was gonna come to me
'cause we're making out.
Right.
(07:21):
I, I'm assuming it was thefemale's husband, like very
little communication.
And I, I'm not, I don't want to,this is not a manlet thing, but
I would just tell peoplenormally in a lifestyle, this is
not how it works.
Right.
You're, you're not just havingcouples come up to you instantly
start making out or doingthings.
Especially as a single male, Iwould tell you.
It should never be that way.
(07:42):
Yeah.
You want to have thatconversation, you want to have
that consent.
So I just wanna make sure I'mclear.
Like the situation I'mdescribing to you is my early
time.
This is not a normal thing thathappens,
Elle (07:52):
right?
So then from there, how longwere you and she married?
How did you have men?
Any other experiences or is itsomething, and then the marriage
kind of went its way and thenyou were like, well, I kind of
like this whole thing.
Sy (08:06):
Yeah, we were married for five years and got a divorce.
We didn't really have manyexperiences.
After that.
I mean, we dabbled a little bit,but that's what I mean.
It's again, it's hard whenyou're in a couple, I don't
wanna say it's difficult next toimpossible.
It really is because you'retrying to find four people that
are attracted to each other andcan get along, and that's really
(08:27):
not easy.
Tramp (08:29):
Yeah, not as easy as you think.
A true four way connection ispretty elusive, so I don't wanna
say someone is always taking onefor the team, but there's.
Elle (2) (08:37):
Yeah, sometimes
Tramp (08:38):
I put it in my own head when I'm in a coupled situation
where, okay, it's not optimalfor me.
It's not perfect for me, but Ican have fun for, right.
Elle (08:50):
Can still enjoy myself 45,
Tramp (08:51):
60 minutes and have a good experience.
Right.
Elle (08:53):
And then, and it comes back to the com conversion
element too, where it adds toyour enjoyment of the evening
watching your partner.
Enjoying themselves.
Right.
And that, could add to it too.
Sometimes it's the whole packageof what's going on.
But yeah, no one here is anadvocate of taking one for the
team.
Right.
Yeah.
Sy (09:10):
And there's difficulty also too, in that conversion, right?
Where I'll just use ahypothetical someone may be
attracted to me and not my nowex-wife or vice versa.
And some people don't view thatas compersion, right?
Like they're getting upset,like.
What about me?
Does this person not like?
(09:31):
But yeah, it is what it is fromhere.
It is.
Yeah.
No, agreed.
Agreed.
Elle (09:37):
So then, you guys may or may not or whatever, and the
marriage is over, which doeshappen, and you find yourself a
newly single man.
And did you have thoughts duringthe process of going through the
divorce, like, huh, well maybethat's something I will.
Try to gain more informationabout.
Sy (09:58):
Yeah, I did a little bit of reading, but I also got on the
dating apps, the Bumbles, theHinge.
I didn't do Tinder.
What a shit show were those.
I'm sure still to this day, Ihaven't even touched those
Elle (10:10):
pole.
I, I was on, well, actually howI found out about the Life Stole
was dating a guy from Bumble.
So we will thank Bumble forthat.
Yeah.
Sy (10:20):
And I mean, they're good for what they're good for, but for
me, what would happen is I wouldread through women's profiles
and they would say, well, we'relooking for X, Y, and Z.
And I want a gentleman, I wantsomeone for a long-term
relationship.
Only one person I saw, I hate tobe mean, she was not attractive.
Said you need to have a seveninch long be clean shaven.
(10:43):
It was such a well-written.
Profile.
I screenshot it.
I was like, this is amazing.
But what?
And she
Elle (10:49):
knew what she wanted and she spelled it out
Sy (10:51):
and she put it out there.
Okay.
But I think what would happen isI like my first couple dates, I
was dropping a lot of money.
I was truly being a gentleman.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And then as the dates went on,we'd eat dinner, we leave out, I
was walk a woman to her car towhere we have to go and, and do
you wanna come back to my house?
And you know, do the do.
(11:11):
And I'm looking, I'm like, well.
That's not what your profilesays.
Right.
I'm keep going through it andI'm like, we're adults on a, in
a dating app.
Like can't we just be honest inwhat it is that we're looking
for?
Mm-hmm.
One would hope at least.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I decided to.
Dabble back into the lifestylebecause at least within the
(11:32):
lifestyle, at least going to theranch and other places, I have a
general idea of what people arelooking for.
It doesn't mean we don't have aconversation right about it, and
it doesn't mean you may findyour person, per se, in the
lifestyle.
So, but at least for me, it wasjust one additional hurdle.
Like I didn't have to guesswhether or not a person just
(11:53):
wanted me for that time being.
For sex.
Right?
Or for a free meal or, or forwhatever.
What, I hate to say, some peoplecall it dinner and Dick.
Yeah, no, I, I,
Elle (12:06):
coming from the girl's side, we talked about when, Jay
and I went on our first date andon his profile, he said, ladies,
on the first date, I, we goDutch and I, I probably
would've.
The few people, although I'vemet other women, they're like,
yeah, I kind of appreciate that.
'cause going into it, it's thatweird, awkward, well, it's like,
should I assume?
But is that rude to assume?
(12:26):
So knowing, going into it that,pull your wallet out, it's just
part of it.
Yeah.
Just made it easier for me.
But like he said, there was alot of women who just lit him up
for it.
Yeah.
And, and that's unfortunate.
Sy (2) (12:40):
Yeah.
Elle (12:41):
Yeah.
You single guys.
Have a hard time
Tramp (12:46):
now.
Si I would consider you to be asuccessful single male.
Elle (12:52):
Do you feel you're successful?
Do you
Tramp (12:54):
feel you're successful?
Sy (12:55):
I do feel like I'm successful, but I, I think my
reason for my successes, I don'tenter any situation with a.
Preconceived notion.
I don't enter it with a, I hateto use the term body count.
I don't go to any lifestyleevent or situation thinking I'm
going to either get X amount ofwomen or I failed.
(13:17):
So I'm, I'm super laid back.
I'm ceio sexual, so I like tohave an intelligent conversation
with folks.
Mm-hmm.
If it's a couple, I want to getto know both the man and the
woman.
Although I'm, I'm straight.
Like, I just think it'simportant to get to know.
A lot about the people because Idon't want anybody to feel as if
they're disposable because ourcircle, it may seem big to
(13:41):
others.
It's really small, and I wannamake sure the people I interact
with when they see me, again,whether the sex from either of
us is good or bad, that we canstill have a good conversation
and be respectful towards oneanother.
Just again, I just don't wantsomeone to fill their
disposable.
Tramp (13:57):
So two quick points.
L has mentioned before and thiswould be applicable to your
situation, but whenever you gointo a event, it could just be
an evening at Scarlet Ranch orit could be a big lifestyle
event that you may travel to saya takeover, but not to have sex
expectations.
Sy (14:15):
Yeah.
Elle (14:16):
Is that how you go into it?
Yeah.
I have zero
Sy (14:19):
expectations and normally if it's a, like I've been to a
multi-day event in Arizona.
The first day there, I'm gonnafly on the wall.
I'm paying attention toeverybody.
I mean, just observing.
Yeah.
'cause I want to besituationally aware.
I want to like, look around.
I want to see how people moveand function.
(14:39):
It doesn't mean that I'mdisinterested in anybody there.
It's just the way I am.
Some say it's, I'm a slow play.
I guess I will agree with that.
There's times where I'll meetyou and I'm ready to get down to
the get down, but again, I justdon't want people to feel as if
they're being e objectified andthey're disposable.
'cause I hate to say it, likesometimes that happens to me.
So I, I know how it feels,
Elle (15:00):
right?
And you never want somebody tofeel that way.
So, yeah, you're definitely aslow role.
Yeah.
I will, I'll give you this hat.
Four years.
Four years, man.
It took us four years.
But, but also you are respectfuland I think that coming from a
spouse of a woman that you mightbe interested in.
(15:22):
That is kind of nice for themtoo, is you're not coming in for
a hit it and quit it and moveon.
You're not doing a body countand you're not just trying to
get off one night.
You have to have a connection.
You've got to be able to feellike there's, something and
there's respect and then, yeah.
I'm very sapiosexual too.
You gotta have it up in thehead.
(15:42):
You've got to make me laugh, youknow.
Challenge me, make me, have aconversation with you.
And it's not just, Hey, let'sjust, you're hot, let's go
downstairs.
Sy (15:54):
Yeah.
And don't be fake with iteither.
Like, it's God, no.
For me, it's not fake, like it'sgenuine.
Like I really want to get toknow the people.
Agreed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tramp (16:02):
I'm, I'm much the same way.
Absolutely.
Mm-hmm.
And the second point I wanted tomake was when you have, even if
it's a tight social circle.
But everyone thinks highly ofyou.
You are going to getintroductions, you're gonna get
opportunities, right?
Instead of just being that guywho's there to get down and not
(16:24):
follow through.
So you, send the, lady awaysmiling and you're, you're able
to fist bump the husband andhave a good conversation.
And not only will you be welcomeback, but yeah, they're gonna
introduce you.
Hey.
I know this friend.
Sy (16:40):
Yeah.
The lifestyle's no differentthan, I hate even calling it the
lifestyle sometimes.
It's no different than yourpersonal life if you know how to
network.
It's literally networking.
Oh, for sure.
Right.
It's a friend of a friend andyou may not gotten along with a
couple, but they don't thinkbadly of you.
They may say, oh, you might bebetter suited for X, or We want
to introduce you to a friend.
And that's literally how I'vemet.
(17:02):
Everyone.
I've just met some folks thispast that are like six people.
That way, like I'm gonnaintroduce you to a friend of a
friend of a friend.
And then it just goes fromthere.
And so now we're incommunication.
So that's how it works.
Tramp (17:15):
And I would I venture to say that that is how the
successful single male navigatesthis lifestyle.
Elle (17:25):
You know what?
That brings up a good point.
So there's a number of singleguys at the ranch mm-hmm.
That will talk to people that weknow, and interact.
And there's a number of singleguys.
Who literally just don't.
If you were to give some adviceto the guys that just show up,
go downstairs, I mean, you don'teven know that they're there and
then all of a sudden they'restanding right there.
(17:46):
What would be your advice togive to them?
Sy (17:48):
I would first say if you're, it's your first time to ranch,
it may be somewhat overwhelming.
Sure.
In your mind, you may have thisnotion that, oh, I'm gonna go on
here and it's gonna be.
A party.
Well, it is a party, but it'snot a party for everyone.
Very true.
So you, so you have to kind ofobserve, and I would just say if
you find someone you'reinterested in, and I'll just use
(18:10):
a couple scenario.
Remember that female or thatwife has a husband.
So you can't just solely focuson her.
You need to have a conversationwith both.
So I'll just use like a realworld example.
Like if, if I see a, a womanthat I'm interested in and she's
married, I'm just gonna approachher with something simple like,
(18:31):
Hey, that's a nice dress.
Mm-hmm.
Nice hat, nice outfit.
Because a lot of people dress upfor the occasion.
Turn and introduce myself to thehusband.
Mm-hmm.
And then the conversation justgoes from there.
I don't ask them what theirdynamic is.
I actually at this point, don'tcare.
No, this is your first timehere.
How are you enjoying it?
The food is great.
Mm-hmm.
(18:51):
It's, it's small talk and it'snot fake small talk.
It's just getting to know them.
It's a genuine
Elle (18:58):
interest in somebody else.
Right.
Sy (18:59):
And there may be a time I may have that conversation and
leave.
Yeah.
Because for me, sometimes it'sthat era of mystery.
I can tell sometimes people'sbody language, whether or not, I
hate to say it, the person orpeople are interested in me.
Right.
So I pay attention to bodylanguage and I might just walk
away'cause I know I'm gonna see'em again.
(19:20):
'cause there's so many peoplethere most of the time Sure.
That are passing, gonna crossagain.
Mm-hmm.
Elle (19:25):
What about you tramp?
Having.
Balanced around as a single guy.
Sure.
Over the last oh, almost a year.
Mm-hmm.
If you could give advice tosomebody to make things easier
for everybody, what would yousay?
Tramp (19:40):
I would say, and unfortunately this is why the
single male gets such a bad rap,is learn how to talk, learn how
to conversate.
And quite frankly, if you thinkyour actions may be creepy,
they're creepy.
Yeah.
If every Friday, Saturday night,even some Sunday fun days, you
(20:04):
can tell certain single menright away.
Either they'll sit at the barand then they'll do the circle,
and then they'll go back and sitat the bar.
Or they will just stand therealmost like they're surveying.
Elle (20:17):
Right.
Do they think they're invisible?
Sy (20:20):
They navigate like sharks with blood in the water,
unfortunately, that's kind ofwhat they do.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
Tramp (20:24):
As a single male, I would never imagine just going
downstairs to hang out.
That's just, and for those notin the know, the downstairs is
the play area, so yeah, you cansee stuff.
But I have never seen in my timea single, single male.
(20:45):
Just get, Hey, come on in.
The water's warm.
Elle (20:48):
I've seen it twice.
Sy (20:49):
I was gonna say pause'cause I've been offered and said Yeah,
like it, I've, I've seen it.
I've had, when I dated someoneon the lifestyle, we were down
there.
We were going into a room andsomeone said, Hey, do you need a
third?
And I'm thinking to, so did Iask?
Like, I mean, but Yeah.
But yeah, I get what you'resaying.
It's, it's rare that it, ithappens.
Elle (21:08):
Yeah.
And it does.
Which, then gives fodder to thatguy thinking, oh, well this
could, you know, this couldhappen again.
Mm-hmm.
Or, I saw that happen to so andso, or whatever.
I don't even think they talk toeach other.
I, I feel like they walk aroundlike they are invisible and no
one can see them and they'rejust do observing their own
little peep show.
Yeah.
But when they stand like threefeet from you or Right
(21:31):
practically in your face, it's,yeah.
By the way, we see you.
Yes.
Yeah.
I
Sy (21:36):
had a single male one time.
He was new there.
He said his question, I knew hewas gonna have a problem that
night, so what does a guy needto do to get laid here?
Mm-hmm.
That's, I said, well, a changethat mindset.
And I said, let things, allowthings to flow organically.
Then I just told him the samething.
I told you all, there's acouple, make sure you're
speaking to both.
(21:57):
The wife and the husband, ifit's a single female, don't
approach her as if, if she's apiece of meat, have a
conversation with these folks.
Yeah, yeah.
Tramp (22:08):
These
Sy (22:08):
are people.
People
Tramp (22:09):
Everyone may be there roughly for the same reason,
right?
Or some are wallflowers or someare first timers and they just
want the immersive experience.
But I would say everyone.
Kind of has the same roughmindset and your correct side.
You don't treat'em like a pieceof meat.
You treat'em as a person andmm-hmm.
You try to engage them not only,first on the mental level and
(22:32):
then if you're getting thesignals, then you start to break
the touch barrier and start toget physical.
But not until those signs areclear.
Sy (22:44):
Right.
Yeah.
Consent is always paramount.
I, I, I tell people that it isalways like,
Tramp (22:50):
now, okay, that brings up something very just kind of
popped into my mind.
Consent is paramount.
I wholeheartedly agree, but Iwould argue that women can get
away with a lot more than men.
Yeah.
And I 1000% agree with
Elle (23:09):
you.
Oh yeah.
Whether, and it's, and, and, andhonestly, as a woman, with a
woman coming to you, it's notalways welcome.
I mean, you need to still havethat consent, but we do push
those barriers more than weshould.
Right.
On, on men and women, I thinkthere is a, a sense of not
entitlement, but No, it'sentitlement.
I think so.
Okay.
All right.
Entitlement.
(23:29):
Yeah.
We'll go with that.
Yeah.
That, okay, well,, who's gonnasay no?
Yeah.
Whether it's, you should stillbe able to say no.
Tramp (23:35):
Sure.
But yeah.
Whether it's, it's a womanslapping a guy's ass as he walks
by.
Yeah.
And chances are the guy is justgonna brush it off.
He may give a smile or whatever,and then go about his business.
But yeah, the reverse situationhappens, and chances are
there'll be a little hell topay, but
Sy (23:53):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I get, I hate to say it likeI get touched a lot.
And I do have personal space,and I think not too long ago, I
just had to kind of correctpeople and like, I'm no
different than anybody else.
You don't get to come up andtouch me and rub me.
It doesn't work that way.
Yeah.
I mean, just So they said, well,what do we need to do to touch?
I said a ask that, that's reallysimple.
(24:14):
You can ask me.
Yeah.
And if, if I'm open to it, I'llallow you to do it, but just
don't come up and touch me.
I said, because if the role wasreversed, I'd be kicked outta
here.
So let's not do that.
Elle (24:25):
No, 100%.
Mm-hmm.
And, we have to remember that.
So I think that's a good, a goodthing to say.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But you are fun to touch.
Just gonna say that.
So okay.
So what is it that you arelooking for?
Are you just looking to exploreand have a good time?
(24:46):
Are you looking for.
Someone to share it with you.
Tell us a little bit about howwould this look for you?
Sy (24:53):
So for context, I just got out of a, probably a little bit
over a year long relationshipwith someone I met in the
lifestyle.
So, but again, we met exclusiveto each other.
That wasn't my expectation, butthat's okay.
Things happen.
Now that I'm, I'm single again.
I can't really say what it isI'm looking for.
Would I like to find someone alifestyle?
(25:15):
I think it would be great, butit is not the end all be all.
Like I don't wanna force someoneto say, you either like this or
you don't.
Mm-hmm.
But I also in that same vein,don't want a person that I meet
in the lifestyle expect me justto get out.
I like to travel, I like to goto the various events, but I
also understand that if I werelike in a relationship with
(25:35):
someone.
I'm going to need to spend timewith that person.
So they're not gonna say, Hey, ssee when you get back in three
days from a hot wife event.
Mm-hmm.
Or they might, depends what typeof communication we have in that
relationship.
To answer your question, I'mlooking for someone who's overly
communicative.
Mm-hmm.
So we can have theseconversations.
(25:56):
Maybe again, if I'm in a couple,we can do.
That situation where we may swapor just kind of explore with
other couples, I think it wouldbe good, but I just think
whoever that person may be, wejust have to learn to
communicate.
And the other thing is justtrust.
I've been in the lifestyle noweight years.
(26:17):
So I know a lot of people thereshouldn't be an expectation if I
meet you in a lifestyle andyou're relatively new, that I'm
gonna cut off all my friends.
Mm-hmm.
And people I know because thatputs me in a bad spot.
And when I say cut off notsexually, like they can no
longer be my friends becausethere's no trust.
But I say all that to say I'menjoying being single right now.
(26:38):
I won't say I'm not activelylooking to be in a relationship.
Again, being organic.
If it happens, it will.
If it doesn't, I'll be okay.
Mm-hmm.
So,
Tramp (26:47):
and the thing is, you may never know it's something could
literally fall into your lap andall of a sudden you're just
like, holy crap, there it is.
All
Elle (26:57):
cylinders are firing.
Right?
Tramp (26:58):
Yeah.
That's, that's something fun.
I more broadly in life, whetherit be professionally or
personally, sometimes it's allabout the adventure.
Sy (27:07):
Yeah.
Tramp (27:07):
Yeah.
Elle (27:08):
I agree.
So, okay.
Tell me the worst story thatever happened.
Like a precautionary tale.
We, you know, we like to hearthe horror stories sometimes.
Sy (27:22):
Hmm.
I'm trying to think if I have ahorror story.
Oh, I do.
We all have to that, I mean, youknow, fair, and I won't call it
a horror story, it was just verysuspect.
Okay.
Met what I believed at the timeto be a single female.
And I drove up to the FortCollins area really close.
A single female had me meet herat a furniture store, which
(27:44):
struck me as odd as it should.
Yeah, it struck me as odd.
Yeah.
I, from there, I then left mycar, got into her car, and went
back to her place.
So it was a couple things thatraise red flags.
A my car is a couple minutesaway from where we're going.
Inaccessible.
Yeah.
B I'm like.
Man, like why did I have to todo this?
(28:07):
So I'm super observant.
I'm looking at pictures that areleft out of family members.
So I see there's children.
I'm like, okay, if there'schildren, that means someone
help make that child.
And generally, and I'm like,okay, I'm looking around.
I go use the restroom, I lookaround, make sure nothing's in
the restroom, is sharp oranything like that.
And I'm like, okay, do I reallywanna do this?
(28:27):
'cause pretty much I'm stuckhere right now.
So it was only odd.
For that reason, I assumed shewas married.
I don't know that withcertainty, but I, I, that was
only one of my worst storiesbecause I was literally life
kind of naked, right?
No car.
I literally, like in my phonetexts, left, right, left this
(28:50):
street to get back to my car.
Like I was in a very odd spot,and I don't think a lot of
couples understand when you'reasking a single male.
Someone will actually go to ahotel.
I hate doing that.
I mean, I have a home.
If you wanna come over, you can,but like to go to your place,
that's a lot of trust put intogoing to a couple's house,
(29:10):
right?
Of course.
Sure.
Right.
So it was that thing.
So I would say that's my worst,which is not bad in comparison
to others.
So, yeah.
Elle (29:18):
Okay.
What about your best?
I was gonna say, what about thebest?
Oh, I was lining it up.
Sy (29:24):
I'll have to try to quickly tell you two.
I, I met a couple.
A great couple.
I would spend a lot of time withthem, but this is what I mean,
what made them good.
When we met we just had generalconversations about family,
what's going on in life andthings of that nature.
Unfortunately the male halfwasn't able to perform due to a
(29:46):
medical condition.
And so I, I got to spend a lotof time with a wife.
I liked it because again, wewere more so friends mm-hmm.
Than anything.
And again, it wasn't like, Hey,s come on over, we need you for,
for tonight.
It was like, are you busy?
We meet up and then sometimes wewould meet and not do anything.
(30:09):
I would say my second good storyand I went to an event hosted by
Jeannie Wishes.
I believe it, it was a hot wifeevent.
In Tucson, Arizona.
I give them a plug, but I don'tknow if plugs are allowed and I
can't remember their new date.
No, we're fine with that.
But it was a good experiencebecause I'd met them, actually,
I met, I'm gonna try to makethis story short.
I met a couple of the day prioron sa Saturday at the ranch.
(30:32):
A female came and got me and inme introduced me to this group
sitting in a cabana.
And it was so, I got a weirdvibe.
So I get everybody's name andthen.
People disappeared like roacheswith the lights on.
Tramp (30:45):
Oh, that is weird.
Sy (30:45):
It was weird.
So what I found out is I wasbeing interviewed to be able to
go to the event in Tucson.
So what they do is theyinterview the, single males.
They ask you, what do you do fora living?
Honestly, like they're seeinghow well spoken you are.
They, they watch how younavigate the ranch, like Right,
right.
They told me like, we saw youstanding there.
You were like.
(31:06):
Really kind of chill and calm.
We didn't, you seem to knowpeople and not do anything.
So they were basically scoutingyou.
Oh, they were scouting me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well that's interesting.
They were scouting me.
So I then flew to Tucson and metprobably, thus far, probably one
of the most beautiful women I'vemet ever like, and the
(31:28):
lifestyle.
And again, I'm very nonchalant,laid back, she stops up and
talks to me, she says.
Are you not vibing that I'minterested in you?
This is like day two of theevent.
I'm like, honestly, no, I'm notpaying attention.
She says, well, what is yourroom number?
I told her, she says, tonightI'm coming to get you.
Leave the door unlocked.
(31:50):
So my night ends a little bitearly'cause I'm tired.
I get a knock on my door.
I see this silhouette comes inand she came and got me.
And when she got me, she got meand she took me back to her
room.
And it was, it was great, butsuper beautiful woman.
Like wow, super, superbeautiful.
So yeah, that was a great story.
(32:11):
It's super memorable for me.
I probably will visit that eventagain.
It is a good event experience.
Yeah, it was a great experience.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So
Elle (32:19):
would you say that you appreciate it when a woman is
more assertive with you or
Sy (32:26):
I I think it depends who.
The woman is, I would just tellyou, the majority of the women
I've been with lately have allbeen assertive., She grabbed me.
I didn't know she was marrieduntil later that night.
Uhhuh, and we wind up talking.
We played that that evening.
But I think the majority of thewomen that I've been with most
recent have been superassertive.
(32:46):
They've come up, introducedyourself to me.
Sat by me.
We've just had a conversation.
So long answer to a shortquestion.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
That's
Tramp (32:55):
admittedly a problem I have, recognizing that a woman
is interested and then by thesame token, putting out that
vibe.
Where I'm interested, but Idon't necessarily make the
approach.
Elle (33:09):
Right so that they know,
Tramp (33:10):
so that they know.
Coming
Elle (33:11):
from a non-fire starter, it is helpful when you guys tell
me that you're interested, justso you know.
Yeah.
But I guess I have a question
Sy (33:18):
for you, Trent.
So like in that situationthough, are you more kind of
standoffish because you alsoknow that woman has a spouse and
you don't know their dynamic?
Tramp (33:30):
No, not necessarily.
Okay.
I.
When I'm at the ranch, forexample, or any club, I look for
my social circle and the peoplethat I integrate with, and I can
have good conversations and I'llcompliment just, just as you
said, Sy compliment the womanon, that's a really sexy dress,
or I love your earrings, orsomething to that effect.
(33:53):
But beyond that, I have a hardtime crossing over that Rubicon.
To let my actual intent beknown.
And I know there are some guyswho are not only physically
attractive, so they already havethat in.
But just have this charisma andalmost very aggressive that some
women fall for almost, and theyrespond to very well.
Elle (34:15):
Well, what makes it easier for them as long as they're
interested in that person.
Mm-hmm.
So, I mean, it's funny, we'restill, junior high.
Dance thing, where we're, you'restill trying to figure out if
somebody's interested and whereyou can go with that and what
somebody is available for.
Tramp (34:33):
Right.
You know, and it's such a fineline where I wanna say, I wish I
just gave less fucks, but thenby the token, I don't want to
alienate.
Yeah.
You know, the, the people thatare already in my social circle,
but I don't know if Inecessarily would, to be
perfectly honest.
Sy (34:48):
Yeah, I jokingly, but seriously tell people to say,
well, what was the best thingyou ever said to a woman?
And I said, sometimes there'snothing at all.
I don't say anything.
I'm looking at body language.
I look at your eyes, I can hearreally well.
So when I walk by, if you saysomething to me I've heard it, I
may not acknowledge it untillater.
Because again, some are.
(35:10):
Uncomfortable with approachingyou and, and I try to break the
ice.
There's people sometimes who Iknow are afraid to approach me,
and I've had males tell me I'mintimidating.
I
Elle (35:21):
Well, I was just gonna say that even as a female, like, oh,
this, you know, both of youhandsome men, like, oh, will
they even be interested in me?
I can see how some women mightbe holding back.
Because they just think, well, Idon't know if I have a chance.
Sy (35:37):
And for me, I would say they don't need to.
I'm never gonna shut down aconversation.
Yeah, I know ever.
Like I just think I'm open totalk to anyone to get to learn
about you.
Who knows?
Like I may be the person whogives you a tour.
I may be the person who is I,I'd met someone unfortunately
one time who was, was dealingwith the death of a spouse.
(35:58):
I just sat with that person.
I didn't need to.
Play and they had not been outin months.
Yeah, I'm open to doing that.
Like for me, at the end of theday, it's not always about sex.
And, and just being a, a goodlistener.
Elle (36:11):
I agree.
Most of the time when we go, Ihave no plans on playing.
Yeah.
I just wanna be around peopleand, and having an exciting
night and maybe feel good aboutmyself or help somebody feel
good about themselves.
It's, it's rarely with a planthat I've gotta play that night.
Tramp (36:28):
Yeah.
Right.
I would almost say in closingthat the folks in the lifestyle,
broadly speaking, are some ofthe best people you'll ever
meet.
A hundred agree.
Yep.
And in the past, that's whatkept me going back to Desire and
the ranch and all these placeswhere you may never know who
you're gonna meet, butguaranteed you're, going to come
(36:48):
home smiling.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just such a good experience.
Yeah.
Someone's
Elle (36:51):
gonna make you happy that you went.
Tramp (36:53):
Agree.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Well guys, I'm gonna pause usreal quick and tell you about
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(37:16):
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Not only is my pleasure enhancedwhen I get a chance to play, but
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hungover in a lot ofcircumstances.
This may actually replacealcohol for me at lifestyle
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So Cy, what I want to do next iswe do have an a MA this week so
(38:23):
this a MA is from the mountainfoxes and their question is, in
the lifestyle, you're going tosee something happen with your
partner that may be unexpected,whether it could be a new
position for them or a, areaction from them that you
don't get.
So you may have some personalfeelings on that, or maybe they
(38:45):
are all of a sudden super vocalduring an orgasm or they're with
a gentleman who is quite sizableand you may not be as.
Rather this could be positive ornegative.
But not only how did you react,but how did you recover after
the fact?
Elle (39:03):
For me unfortunately I can only think of a not so positive
situation.
And it wasn't that I saw it andwas there, I was outta town and.
Jay had gone to the ranch and wehad talked about that there
would be an opportunity to playwhile I was gone and, and we had
talked about it.
But we really hadn't talkedspecifics and of what would be
(39:25):
okay and what would not.
And so sometimes you don't knowuntil it actually happens.
And I had come back from thetrip and he's telling me about
his adventures and he had playedwith a, a couple that we knew
and there was a single gal thatwas there.
Playing with all of them.
And then the couple left and hewent back downstairs and played
with a single gal.
And it kind of hit me hard thatwait.
(39:47):
Hmm.
I'm sorry.
You played with a single galI've never met before and so I,
I've, I, if something goes awry,I'm never gonna blow up at the
ranch.
I'm never gonna, in thatsituation I will think about it
for a while and try to figureout what is it about it that I'm
not okay with.
Because sometimes you don'tknow.
(40:08):
Mm-hmm.
And so we talked about it or Ithought about it for a little
bit and then we talked about itand it's like, okay.
I think that we need to justhave some guidelines.
If one of us is traveling andthe other is at the ranch, if
it's situations that we have notpreviously discussed, that
somebody that I don't know, I'venever met is.
(40:30):
Maybe off limits until a laterdate.
Doesn't mean that it's notsomething that will happen down
the line, but it would besomething that you might need to
say, Hey, listen.
Ellen and I have an agreementthat if she's outta town and I'm
at the ranch, that anopportunity comes up and it's
not somebody that she knows thatit's something that we need to
(40:51):
put on hold until a later date.
And maybe you start aconversation, then maybe the
three of us get to dinner andget to know each other and go
from there.
It's that not knowing thatperson that just didn't sit
right with me.
Yeah.
Sy (41:04):
And.
I'm a single guy, so the onlything I can really think that is
close is normally I'll takesingle females with me to events
and I make sure, and this is,could be someone I'm interested
in maybe dating or getting toknow.
And so prior to, we'll just havea conversation like, what are
you open to both individuallyand is it together?
If I see somebody, I knowthey're, they're interested in
(41:27):
playing, is that okay?
And so it just comes back tothat communication piece.
And again, I'm protective by, bynature.
So I've been in situations wherelike a female friend of mine
will be playing maybe withanother female in a group and
someone will come and touch themthat they don't know or try to
insert themself in a group.
(41:47):
And I'm just gonna be honest,like I kind of check that person
to make sure that theyunderstand that this is not how
it functions, but I do it moreso for the reason.
As single guys, we get a badrap, so.
We're already fighting againstthe stereotype.
You know, the, the bad appleshave ruined the bunch.
Sure.
And so what I want, if anything,is to teach these single males
(42:10):
like a lesson to say like,listen, this is not how you act.
You don't put your hands among,you get consent.
You don't act pushy.
I mean, there may be some timeswhere people say they want a
bull or something like that, butyou still can do all these
things and remain respectful.
And for me, you have to stayrespectful throughout that.
Tramp (42:28):
So, no, I think that's incredible insight there.
I would say, and this is just myown personal view and specific
to me is I am naturallycoersive, which means I take
great pleasure in my partner'spleasure.
It doesn't mean I want to beleft out, but I can sit back for
a minute and just kind ofobserve and if she's having a
(42:49):
good time, that's a lot of fun.
And then I like to get involved.
If there's a situation that youhave not discussed, and again,
as l and I seem to hammer onevery single episode is every
one is is the communicationaspect.
If it's a new situation, unlessit's completely just beyond the
pale, a lot of people would bejust to end the interaction.
(43:12):
Pull your partner out.
I'll let it play out.
And then because I'm so partnerpleasure driven, I'm still going
to enjoy to a certain extent.
And then we'll have thatconversation after, everything
has settled, all the hormoneshave left the brain and you're
kind of back to earth, per se.
(43:34):
But yeah, I think in all of ourcases.
It still just boils down to thatcore concept of communication.
Yeah.
And
Sy (43:41):
I've been in those, pull your partner out situations
where I'm with mm-hmm.
The wife and something clicksand the next thing I know
everything is shut down and likeI'm standing there like, I don't
know what's going on.
Right.
Was that part of that dynamic?
Yeah.
I feel bad.
Yeah.
And yeah.
Yeah.
I've been, I've been in thosesituations and it's weird.
Elle (44:01):
I think unless it's a a true disregard for the partner's
feelings in a situation,sometimes things happen and it's
kind of key to not throw thedrama gauntlet down and, and
take a moment and take a breath,figure out maybe what it is.
(44:21):
Ease that person out and havethat conversation of something
that's upsetting, then, havethat conversation maybe in
another area as opposed to infront of everybody.
So many people, will do areaction and it kind of ruins it
for everybody and they don'tnecessarily know what that
problem was or why thathappened.
Tramp (44:41):
We've all met those couples usually, very briefly,
the lifestyle where they just,quite frankly, bring a lot of
drama.
Yeah.
And they, us hopefully, theyusually show themselves out.
Yeah.
And those are the
Sy (44:54):
people I never interact with, ever get, I'll say hi to
'em, but that's pretty much it.
The buck stops there.
No.
Right.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Elle (45:01):
We, we had a situation where Jay and I we met a, a
young couple that were new tothe lifestyle.
We had had some dinner with.
With the gentleman brought hisgirlfriend, she was trying to
figure out if this was somethingshe wanted to do.
And at the end of dinner withthe four of us, I guess she
really wanted to try and playwith me.
And I'm trying to think if I'veeven said this story.
I feel like I might've told it.
But anyway, we, we said, okay,'cause she wanted to play with a
(45:24):
girl.
It's like, okay, well thenthat'll be, you know, so I'll
play with Jay, she'll play withhim, but she wanted to kiss and
maybe do some touching and allthat.
So we were open to that.
And so we had at that.
We had played.
It was a, a very nice, sweetsituation and she got to explore
a little bit and we're allgetting dressed and getting
ready to go upstairs, and all Idid was lean over and give him a
(45:47):
kiss.
It wasn't like I made out withhim.
I didn't stick my tongue downhis throat.
It was like, thank you for anenjoyable evening.
And I guess she just lost hershit.
Yeah.
And the next day he was textingJay saying she doesn't want
anything to do with me anymore,blah, blah.
And it's like, oh, you guysmight wanna have that, more of
that conversation.
I, I didn't do anything wrong.
(46:09):
I didn't do anything outside ofa boundary I don't feel, but
that.
Is an awkward situation to bein.
Sy (46:18):
I hate to use the term leash, but sometimes a leash is
longer.
Yeah.
Depending on the person, right?
Between the people.
I would agree.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tramp (46:27):
Well, interesting.
Fantastic.
So Cy, thank you so much for
Elle (46:31):
Yeah.
Tramp (46:31):
Joining us.
Thanks for, and if you're soinclined, would you go ahead and
share your socials if you, ifyou feel like getting some
additional traffic in your ownbox?
Sy (46:40):
Highly on Cassidy and s SDC I'm s Swinton.
It's all one word.
It starts with a SY Swinton,just like it sounds.
Yep.
I have questions.
Fantastic.
Tramp (46:51):
We'll talk later.
And we're, I'm actually kind ofcurious to see how much.
Extra bandwidth you get there, Ihope.
Sy (46:57):
We'll see.
I'm open to communication.
As I tell folks, I'm super laidback.
I'm open to talk about anything,even if you're a single male.
I like women, but I will justtell you, like if I can give you
pointers to kind of navigate it,I'm a hundred percent open to to
doing it.
I use successful in a adifferent way.
I want you to be successful.
And successful doesn't alwaysmean sexually successful.
It just means to be able tonavigate.
(47:19):
Yeah.
This space.
Mm-hmm.
And just respect.
And so you can meet friends, youmeet the best people in your
life.
And I
Elle (47:26):
think that's, so important.
The ability to give somebodyelse some knowledge and some
information to help theirjourney a little bit better, I
think is very gracious.
And that helps all of us.
Yeah.
Tramp (47:40):
Yeah.
Well, excellent.
So guys, thank you just so muchfor continuing to come on this
journey with us.
If you guys need to contact us,we can be reached at
unapologetic swingers@gmail.com.
Our website is also unapologeticswingers.com, and the biggest
ask that we have is wherever youhappen to be listening to us,
(48:02):
just leave us a quick reviewthat does more for us than quite
frankly, anything.
Elle (48:08):
For sure.
Maybe just our egos, but we'lltake it.
Until next time, I'm l and I'm
Tramp (48:15):
the tramp.
Elle (48:15):
Be sexy, be
Tramp (48:16):
confident,
Elle (48:17):
be unapologetic.
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