April 6, 2025 • 39 mins
The Tramp is joined by Dr. John Carrozzella from the Florida Center of Hormones and Wellness for an in depth discussion about hormonal balancing and why it's so critically important in the lifestyle.
https://hormonesandwellness.com/
Visit us at UnapologeticSwingers.com
Also visit our partner Shivers.Store and use the discount US at checkout for 10% off your order
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
The Tramp (00:06):
Welcome back to the Unapologetic Swinger Podcast.
I'm the Tramp and guys, today Iam actually on location.
It's been really fun to get outof the studio and take a little
trip down to Florida, and I amso thankful to be sitting here
today with Dr.
John Carla.
And he's from the Florida Centerfor Hormone and Wellness.
(00:30):
Dr.
John, thank you so much forjoining me this morning.
Dr. John (00:35):
Thanks for having me.
It's a lot of fun to be able tohave these interactions, to be
able to get the word outbecause, hormone therapy and
care is so important these daysand people are really just not
understanding it properly totake full advantage.
So it's a real pleasure to behere to help spread the word.
The Tramp (00:50):
Of course.
The topic today is obviouslygoing to be hormonal health and
why it's important in thelifestyle, and maybe we can dig
into some details or maybe juststart with some of the very
intro, intro level stuff, thesurface level stuff that a lot
of people don't realize and thenwe can.
Dive a little deeper, if that'sall right with you, doctor.
Dr. John (01:10):
Yeah.
So, in my practice I tend tohave a very large collection of
lifestyle people.
Mm-hmm.
And so it gives me anopportunity to really see the
impact that hormones make onthese people.
And, over the years now thatI've been doing this and
accumulating that largefollowing in the office, it
really makes me come to theconclusion that if you're in the
lifestyle and you're not reallyoptimizing your hormones and
(01:32):
making sure that your hormonehealth.
As good as it could be, you'rereally missing out because
you're, you're missing anopportunity to enjoy what should
be a very pleasurableexperience.
One which you get to meet thebest people in the world and
have the best experiences interms of friendship, intimate
contact, and the the otherthings that we get to do.
And certainly on the sexual sidewhen hormones are outta balance,
(01:53):
it can really make a negativeeffect to you and your ability
to perform, do well, andcomplete the aspect of the
lifestyle interactions.
So.
Hormone health is crucial bothfor men and women.
We know that these hormonesdecline over time and it can
lead to some really seriousproblems.
And it's not just a sexualthing, it's a life vitality,
(02:16):
health metabolic issues.
And so it's crucial to have anexpert who's able to look at all
of these things.
And deal with them.
And I differentiate a lot ofwhat we do to what I call the
drive by hormone clinics whereyou get your testosterone shot
or your testosterone cream as awoman and go from there.
So it's really, reallyimportant, not just for
(02:37):
lifestylers, but everybody ingeneral, but in particular in
lifestyle, when we're looking tobe the best that we can be.
Mm-hmm.
In all areas of, of, of thatinteraction.
The Tramp (02:46):
I would also.
Submit in there that it's alsofor your mental health because
if, you feel good, you canperform, you can do all these
things, it's gonna boost you upmentally as well.
Dr. John (02:57):
Well, absolutely.
I mean, there's no question whenyou look at things I.
Specifically medically in termsof medical health.
You know, hormonal balancereduces the risk of dementia in
women by over 80%.
It reduces the risk in dementiain men.
It improves depression andanxiety.
So from a clinical standpoint,mentally it does, but from a.
(03:19):
A, a, a mental standpoint interms of the satisfaction and
enjoyment of life.
When you're engaged in thelifestyle activities, or even if
you're not just the everydayinteractions with your friends
and your, partners and all thatto be clearheaded, feeling
vital, active, and vigorous.
Of course that's just gonna makeyou feel happier less depressed
and less anxious about life.
(03:40):
Sure.
The Tramp (03:41):
Now, hormones at their core, they're naturally
produced by the body.
Especially they're prevalent inour youth or as we come into
adolescence and during, thenatural human growth cycle.
At what point typically do youstart to see a decline?
Dr. John (03:58):
Yeah, that's a good question.
And I want to emphasize a coupleof points within your question.
Hormones are naturally occurringin your body.
And so we're gonna get into, inthis discussion, I believe some
of the myths about the potentialharms of hormones.
And I wanna be clear there, arelots of myths and lots of
misunderstanding about thepotential downside.
(04:20):
And the reality is, when you'retalking about a natural
substance that however you wannalook at it, whether God put it
in your body or revolution, putit in your body, something
that's supposed to be in yourbody.
Intuitively, it doesn't makesense that that's something
would be harmful if you replaceit later in life.
But what ends up happening withyour hormone balance, both for
(04:40):
men and women, is those hormonesare optimal or best, right
around the primary reproductiveyears at the end of your
twenties, and they're balanced.
They're great.
Everything's performing on allcylinders.
Hopefully, I mean, there areobviously exceptions, but people
are really doing well in theirmid to late twenties.
Then in men, we see a gradualhormonal decline in testosterone
(05:03):
of about 1% to 2% every year.
To the point when you're over50, you're, more than 50% lower
on your testosterone level.
Mm-hmm.
And, and it has effects inphysical performance, sexual
performance, weight distributionsugar metabolism, cholesterol
metabolism, and all of thesedifferent things.
Women as well see declines intheir hormones.
(05:25):
It's a little bit moreirregular.
And if you looked at thegraphical change over time the
way that these hormones go theystill decline.
But then women go through thisdramatic change around the
average age of 51 in the UnitedStates where they're going to
menopause, and those hormonesjust fall off of the table and
crater when the ovaries stopproducing them.
The Tramp (05:43):
Mm-hmm.
And
Dr. John (05:44):
they have a much more dramatic shift from hormonal
balance to men.
Not that they're absent of anyproblems in the forties or so
leading up to that, of course.
So what'll happen is at somepoint or another, and it's very
personal, it's very individual.
Way before you're in yourfifties or your sixties, you're
gonna start to see some changes.
The way that you think, yourmental clarity, your energy,
(06:07):
your vitality.
You're gonna start to see weightgain that's completely
unexplained.
I'm sure a lot of the women outthere will either have
experienced or no friends.
They'll, go something along theway.
Oh, I know.
You know, I, I'm not doinganything differently.
I'm eating the same I'mexercising the same.
I haven't changed anything yet.
Slowly over the last few years,I'm gaining weight.
(06:29):
Well, that is a clear indicatorof hormonal decline.
And it goes to show you thathormones are not just for sexual
function.
The Tramp (06:35):
Right.
Dr. John (06:36):
They're, crucial.
And again, when we get intolifestyle issues, the sexual
aspect of it.
Maybe frequently or all toofrequently becomes a little bit
more focused, but there's somany other things that start to
occur from, a hormonalimbalance.
So it goes well beyond thesexual aspect.
And we have the ability now tounderstand these things and do
them in a very safe and veryeffective way to mm-hmm.
(06:58):
Restore that balance and getpeople back on their game both
physically, physiologically, andsexually by restoring these
hormones.
The Tramp (07:06):
Now I would also think that a lot of people, even
some people in the medicalcommunity will say, well, that's
just part of getting a littleolder.
Or people will self justify.
They're like, yeah, I've lost a,a step in my game.
And it's just, it's just part ofthe process and I'm gonna try to
be as graceful as possiblemoving onto that next phase of
(07:27):
my life.
But I'm one of those people whoare like, no, I'm not.
I'm going to.
I have a certain standard and Iwant to keep that standard.
Dr. John (07:34):
Well, I mean, that is a great question and I get that
a lot of times that I even had.
A few people who have actuallyleft the office and go, well,
you know, this is not normal.
It's not natural.
The hormones decline.
I need to learn to live with it.
One of the saddest stories Iever remember was when I first
doing this, 15 years ago, I hada lady come into the office and
(07:55):
she was experiencing all of thehorrors of hormonal decline.
And she had gone to her GYNdoctor and, and was.
Kind of telling her the storyand, and the GYN doctor looked
at her, put her hands on thetable, stood up and said, you
know what, big girl, sometimesyou have to put your grownup
panties on and get over it.
And then she stormed out of theroom.
(08:16):
And just the heartless, carelessapproach to that.
It is out there.
And, that is indeed some of theattitude now.
The Tramp (08:24):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (08:25):
by simply restoring something to levels that were
present in your youth, or maybeeven sometimes a little bit
higher, we can preserve thevitality in the health with a
natural substance.
It's one thing to say thatyou're artificially prolonging
life when you create a drug thatmight have side effects or
problems, or, cause otherunexpected.
Results in the longer, it's onething to take a synthetic,
(08:47):
something to try to restoresomething or to do something
unnatural.
It's another thing just to putback in the body what's been
declining when you know that,that something is directly
related to restoring health andvitality.
So, I want to challenge thatthinking and say that you don't
have to accept normal, a agerelated decline.
That, science technology.
Gave us the ability to deal withthese things and restore this in
(09:10):
a safe and effective way.
The Tramp (09:13):
That's, I think, safe and effective is, is the key
there, realistically, becausewe've all seen the drug
commercials and it seems likethere's this whole litany of,
whatever the, the big farm ispushing, and I think by law they
have to list off, you know?
Can cause this or that or this.
And it seems like half thecommercials are possible side
effects, where typically withhormonal balancing, yeah, you
(09:37):
may have some side effects, butnot nearly to that level.
Dr. John (09:42):
Well, I really spend a lot of time in my office
differentiating between sideeffects.
And excess effects.
The Tramp (09:50):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (09:51):
To me, when I consider a side effect of something like,
you have a headache and you takea pill and your thumb falls off,
I mean, that's, that's clearlyan unwanted hazard from the
medicine that you took.
The Tramp (10:03):
Yes.
Dr. John (10:04):
Okay.
And you can say there'ssomething really wrong with
that.
Okay.
Now, if we look at a hormone, ifwe take estradiol or what people
will commonly call estrogen, ifa woman does that and she has
uterine bleeding.
Well, someone would call that aside effect.
I just call that an excesseffect.
That means you took too muchestradiol, it wasn't properly
(10:24):
balanced by progesterone.
And estradiol naturally causesuterine proliferation, and if
you have uterine proliferation,you're gonna get some bleeding.
So that's not really a sideeffect.
That's just getting more of whatthe, the hormone causes in an
unregulated, unmonitored way.
Same thing with testosterone.
If you take testosterone and youget oily skin.
(10:47):
That's not a side effect.
That's what the testosteronedoes.
Testosterone makes your skinproduce a little bit of extra
oil.
If you make a little bit ofextra oil and you get some acne,
that's not really a side effect.
That's what testosterone does,
The Tramp (11:01):
right?
Dr. John (11:02):
And it's the same thing if you get irritable or
anxious when you're ontestosterone.
It, it's not a side effect.
We know that's what it does in,and in a way it's kind of good
because if, if you get irritableand your testosterone level is
up and you're a caveman, itgives you that drive to go out
and hunt.
So these are things that are, inmy opinion, misnamed as side
(11:26):
effects when they're really justexcess effects, because there is
not one well documented studywhen you take a natural hormone.
That causes any serious medicaladverse harm.
The Tramp (11:39):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (11:39):
Now what ends up happening is a lot of the
synthetics are out there, andwhen we talk about Premarin or
the synthetic estrogen when welook at these things true, they
have a blood clot blood.
Cox can go to the lungs, theycan kill you.
I mean, those are side effects,but they're as a result of the
inflammatory nature of thesesynthetic substances which don't
(12:00):
belong in the body.
The Tramp (12:01):
Okay?
Dr. John (12:01):
So we, we have to be very, very clear, and when you
start to understand theliterature and you start to
unwind.
These studies that it's just acrime that the medical community
and the editors of the journalshave allowed the conflation of
the, the synthetics with thenatural hormones.
It, I mean, it's a, it's averitable crime.
(12:23):
You've got journal articles thatyou cannot unwind whether
they're using estradiol, whichis the natural estrogen or the
synthetic Premarin.
You've got journal articles formen that you don't know whether
they're using.
You know, Ava or withdrawalmethyl testosterone or whatever,
synthetic, they're over theregular testosterone.
You can read the article and youcannot tell whether they're, the
(12:45):
naturals or the synthetics.
Mm-hmm.
Yet when you clearly identifyarticles that have either
synthetic or natural hormones,then you can see a clear
difference in the outcomes.
Mm-hmm.
Because, if you read and studylike I do, I.
And you just can't believe thefact that the medical community
today is so against hormones.
Yet when you parse theliterature properly, when you
(13:07):
find the clear differentiationsbetween the natural and the
synthetics, it's not like, well,it's, it's, it's arguable, you
know?
No, there's a clear differencewhen you take the natural
hormones.
It's safe and effective.
The Tramp (13:18):
Mm-hmm.
With
Dr. John (13:18):
little downside, other than excess effects, which may
be bothersome by not medicallydamaging.
In that instance, you justadjust'em until you find the
right combination.
Sure.
Versus the synthetics, which areclearly dangerous and, that just
has not been enforced properlyby the editors or the journals.
And, and it's really a crimebecause it's allowed the myths
that there are potentialdownsides of the hormones.
(13:41):
And, and they're not.
The Tramp (13:43):
Do you think there's a correlation?
Something that I've run acrossand, and I've heard other people
run across where withtestosterone, for example, and,
what would be considered anappropriate level for a man of
say, 40 years old that in recentyears, the guidelines have
actually been adjusted.
(14:03):
Downward have you found that aswell?
Dr. John (14:06):
Yeah.
Well there, there's a realproblem there.
Okay.
Because o over the last 50years, so, well, lemme take a
step back.
When you look at a lab test
The Tramp (14:16):
mm-hmm.
Dr. John (14:16):
What does that range mean on a lab test?
Okay.
That range is purely astatistical number that has no
functional significancewhatsoever.
So what happens is the lab willget a thousand men who are of a
particular age.
And they will draw their blood.
And it's important that theyhave no symptoms of
(14:38):
testosterone.
So they're screened for nosymptoms of testosterone.
They get a thousand men of aparticular age, and they do
what's called a standarddeviation.
Okay?
And for the statistical nuts outthere, they'll understand this
clearly.
But basically what you get iswhat?
A bell-shaped curve, and theytake two standard deviations off
of the mean, and they call thatnormal.
It's.
(14:59):
Purely arbitrary how they comeup with that number.
And even though we know for anabsolute medical fact that his
testosterone levels decline, therate of illness goes up.
The Tramp (15:09):
Mm-hmm.
But
Dr. John (15:10):
because over the last 50 years, the herd average of
testosterone has been declining.
They have lowered that normalrange of testosterone in the
blood slip.
Well, it's completely makes nosense because we know that the
lower the testosterone levelsare the worst that men do.
I think it's important torecognize that, the herd range
(15:30):
of testosterone has beendeclining.
Well, what does that mean?
It means that we call the normalrange that, but I, I, as I said
earlier, there is no functionalsignificance to that.
I see
The Tramp (15:41):
we have,
Dr. John (15:41):
we have clear medical literature that says that men
need a testosterone level thatachieves the medical and
physical results that they need.
The Tramp (15:50):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (15:51):
And there's a great article published in this
journal called Mayo Clinics,which obviously is put out by
the Mayo Clinic.
And it took about 20international testosterone
experts that got together afterthe FDA changed some guidelines
back in the early 2010s.
And they came out and made acomment that there is no level
of testosterone at which a manwith significant testosterone
(16:14):
symptoms might not benefit fromgetting supplemental
testosterone if his symptoms aresevere enough to warrant a
trial.
The Tramp (16:22):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (16:23):
And what that means is.
You could have a normal, or evenin fact, high testosterone
level.
If for some reason you feel oryour doctor feels that you're
low in testosterone, there's noreason why you shouldn't trial
testosterone because we know.
And this is gonna blow somepeople away.
We know that I cannot hurt youno matter what level of
(16:44):
testosterone I put you at.
I can make you not feel good.
Oily skin, acne, irritability,aggression, things like that.
Mm-hmm.
But I can't medically hurt you.
I can't, you can't get heartproblems, you can't get prostate
problems.
You're not gonna get thickblood, you're not gonna get
blood clots.
You're gonna get none of that.
'cause there's no literature outthere that shows that any of
(17:05):
that happens.
So what I'm getting at is if theMayo Clinic and the leading
testosterone experts around theworld say that there's no level
at which your testosterone mightbe improved, if you feel have
symptoms.
That means to everyday people.
If you think you're low ontestosterone and you consult
with an expert who reallyunderstands hormone balance
(17:26):
mm-hmm.
There's no problem with takingyour level and raising it
higher.
So if you look at the rangetoday, the range today and the
blood slips is something around300 to roughly a thousand.
And that varies from lab to lab.
Sure.
And you'll get doctors that'llgo, okay, well you're 301, your
testosterone level is normal.
You don't need testosterone.
(17:46):
And then the next patient willcome in and his level is 299,
and they'll say, yeah, you're299, you're below the range.
You can get testosteronefunctionally.
What's the difference between299 and 301?
There's none.
So looking at that number makesno sense, and there are many,
many people that havetestosterone levels that are 4,
5, 600 that I see in my office.
(18:07):
We have to consider otherthings.
What are the hormones that areyou're eating in your food that
are interfering with your body,receiving the testosterone
that's there at that particularlevel, and if using more
testosterone to override that,to crowd out these hormones that
come up in your food, is thatokay or you know.
What is going on genetically,that the receptor, where that
(18:28):
hormone plugs into is misshapenslightly, and that the way to
come over that is just tooverwhelm it with more
testosterone.
The Tramp (18:34):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (18:34):
You've got these special circumstances that
you're just trying to overcomewhat's going on in nature and in
the environment.
The toxicities, the heavy metalsthat you might consume.
Mm-hmm.
Hormones in your food, radiationeffects on the shape of the
receptor or the genetic effects.
And for all of these things, youcan use a higher level.
(18:55):
And in many cases, in fact, inmy experience, well over 90% of
the time overcome whatever it isthat's blocking your body's
ability to receive thetestosterone or the estrogen or
the progesterone or the thyroid,or whatever it is that we're
using.
The Tramp (19:09):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (19:09):
To try to make you feel healthier, more vital and
active.
So I can assure people thathormones are safe.
They're effective.
Well done literature shows, nodownside.
And I want to talk about that alittle bit, but there is
absolutely no downside when itcomes to men or women's health.
The Tramp (19:25):
Now you brought up something very interesting
there.
I think a lot of people onlyassociate hormonal health
strictly with testosterone andestrogen which are the core,
what you would call the sexhormones or what you will, but
it, sounded like there are a lotmore facets out there than
simply those two big players, ifyou will.
Dr. John (19:43):
Yeah.
There, there, there are several.
And, and, and I'd say thatthere's.
Four major hormones that wespend a lot of time with at
their basic, although there'sprobably a regular usage in our
office we're probably dealingwith about 10 or 12 or somewhere
around that.
But the big ones are thetestosterone and the estradiol,
which we know a lot about.
And then the secondary hormonesare progesterone for women and
(20:05):
thyroid for both men and women.
The Tramp (20:07):
Okay.
Dr. John (20:07):
And, and thyroid in particular is one that is
really.
W dramatically misunderstood bythe medical community.
And we use a lot of thyroid and,and pretty much in my office, if
you walk in and, and, and theword fatigue or energy come
outta your mouth, you're gonnaend up with a thyroid
prescription.
The Tramp (20:26):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (20:26):
Because thyroid is a metabolic hormone.
And, and when you're not dialedup.
Metabolically, you're gonna betired and fatigued and those are
gonna be symptoms.
And I would say, well, over 90%of the time, if I are tired and
fatigued and they go on thyroid,they're gonna get better.
And it, it's dramatic.
And yet that's another hormone,which many, many everyday
doctors think that the numbertells them how to treat it.
(20:49):
That is this little black numberon this white piece of paper is
gonna tell me how to treat you.
Mm-hmm.
So that you feel better.
And I love to tell my patientsand I get the funniest little
deer in the headlights look whenI do that, I said, so you go to
your family doctor and you say,doctor, I'm tired.
I'm fatigued.
You know, I'm gaining weight.
I've got no energy.
I've got no sex drive.
(21:10):
I.
You know, my brain is all cloudyand you go on and you list 37
thyroid symptoms.
Mm-hmm.
And he goes, Nope.
This piece of paper over herewhere this black number says
it's not your thyroid.
Go lose some weight, exercisemore, get more sleep, and come
back in six months.
And then you come back in sixmonths and you do that, you're
still as miserable as you werein the beginning.
And he says, it's not yourthyroid, it's something else.
(21:30):
And you go, what is it?
He goes, I don't know yet.
90% of the time when I givethose people thyroid, they're
dramatically better.
Mm-hmm.
So, I mean.
Why don't give'em thyroid and,and then the same holds with the
thyroid.
That is, the good literatureshows that if I give you too
much thyroid that your bodyneeds, you'll have a certain set
of excess effect symptoms.
(21:51):
Mm-hmm.
But I'm not gonna hurt you.
Well.
The problem is, is that there'sillness out there called Graves
disease, and it's an autoimmunedisorder in which your immune
system starts to attack yourbody and it attacks your brain.
It attacks your heart, itattacks your bone, so many other
organs, and it attacks yourthyroid.
And when your immune systemattacks your thyroid, your
(22:14):
thyroid starts to go haywire,and the levels of your thyroid
go up.
The Tramp (22:17):
Okay?
Dr. John (22:18):
And the way that Graves' disease presents is with
the symptoms of too muchthyroid.
And so, Graves' disease is oftencalled hyperthyroidism, okay?
And so when you look at the labslip, you're gonna see very high
thyroid levels, okay?
The reality is, is the thyroidproblem in Graves' disease is a
victim, not the perpetrator.
Because what happens is if yougo and you fix the thyroid
(22:40):
issue, usually by eitherremoving the thyroid or
poisoning the thyroid
The Tramp (22:44):
mm-hmm.
Dr. John (22:44):
And you do studies 10 years later, you're gonna still
find that they get brainproblems, heart problems, bone
problems, and all other thingsthat they say that you're gonna
get from too much thyroid thatyou never get when you look at
the literature for, for giving alot of thyroid, you know,
everyday doctors conflate thisand bring this over there and,
it's really wrong to do that.
And I would say the most.
(23:04):
Violent, nasty phone calls thatI get from family doctors
regards thyroid, and yet I havenot had one single problem with
thyroid that's caused thehospitalization in the 15 years
that I've been doing it.
I'm very aggressive in my use ofthyroid.
Matter of fact, there is areally, really good book out
there called UnderstandingHypothyroidism and is written by
(23:26):
a doctor who used to be thepresident of the American
Thyroid Association and theAmerican Thyroid Association,
and the american College ofclinical Endocrinologists or A
CCE are two of the most violent,anti functional medicine
approaches to thyroid.
And these doctors are justvicious and ruthless in their
attack on the functional medicalcommunity of which I'm in and
(23:47):
the way that we use our thyroid.
So this doctor was a presidentof the A TA and he got done with
his leadership of the A TA andabout over the next two or three
years, he started to go out andactually.
Practiced medicine out of theivory tower more on an everyday
basis of seeing people in aclinic.
Sure.
And he started to come to therealization that, wait a minute
here.
(24:08):
All of this stuff we've beenkeep preaching about, about
thyroid is wrong and we need tostart listening to people about
their thyroid symptoms.
And he did a 180 degree turn.
He wrote a book about it sayingthat we completely misunderstand
the way to treat thyroid andneed to be treating it more on a
functional basis.
And we do that.
People are gonna be happier andhealthier.
And I use that book every singleday in my office and is
(24:29):
eyeopening to a lot of patientswho now.
Understand that their doctor arenot maybe necessarily giving
them the right mm-hmm.
Advice on thyroid.
So it's really important tounderstand that.
Again, just like withtestosterone, when you talk
about thyroid.
There may be a level that isabove the range that may be very
helpful and healthy for avariety of reasons that are
(24:50):
largely environmental, is whythe amount of thyroid in your
body is not enough to producethe effect on the thyroid
functions of your body that wesee otherwise.
So I see it's, it's a crucialthing.
Same thing with estradiol thing,same thing with progesterone
and, and progesterone is crucialto balance the effects of
estradiol in a woman's body.
The Tramp (25:09):
Mm-hmm.
No, this has all beenfascinating.
Now, in regards specificallywith the lifestyle, o obviously
there's the sexual component.
What other tie-ins do you see orhave seen in your experience
just in terms of the lifestyleand, and with.
Proper hormonal balancing.
Dr. John (25:29):
Sure.
Let's bring some clarity to thesexual side of the lifestyle
into hormones.
There's absolutely no questionthat men who have more optimal
testosterone levels functionbetter sexually.
They have.
Better erections, they havebetter recovery time.
They have more ability to golonger.
Their durability is longer,their satisfaction is greater,
(25:50):
their ability to have bettersensation, better climax.
The Tramp (25:53):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (25:54):
Every aspect of the spectral function is better when
those testosterone levels arehigher and more appropriate for
what their body needs.
We touched on this and I didn'tsay it specifically.
There is no specifictestosterone level.
At which a man needs to be inorder to be optimum.
What, what is some man may do at1100?
Another man may need 1800.
(26:16):
1900, or even over 2000 to getOh wow.
So it has to be tailoredindividually to each individual
person.
So by tailoring them, you mayget men that.
Have gone to another doctor andthey say, Nope, a thousand as
high as you can go.
And the guy goes home and goes,oh, that's the best.
I, I guess that's the best I cando.
And maybe tweaking it anothertwo or 300 points is gonna make
(26:36):
a world of difference.
And all of a sudden the lightgoes on.
He feels a lot better.
And because that level has beenadjusted to his specific needs
considering his physiologicalresponse mm-hmm.
To that.
So it's.
Clearly important for sexualfunction and optimizing those
things is good beyond just thesex and men, their energy, their
(26:58):
focus, their motivation, theirdrive, you know, getting the
urge to perform
The Tramp (27:02):
right, and, and just their
Dr. John (27:04):
overall enjoyment and satisfaction gets up
dramatically when you optimizetheir levels.
For the women, it, it's the samething.
How many women are on thelifestyle that.
That do because their partnerwants'em to or whatever, and
they know, they kind of thinkthat they like it, but getting
their levels optimized, theirdrive goes up, their desire to
initiate gets better, theirresponsiveness gets better.
(27:25):
Mm-hmm.
Their, their lubrication getsbetter, their sensitivity, their
ability to climax gets better.
So they may be enjoying thelifestyle to a degree, but when
you get them optimized wheretheir levels are good for their
body, they get a better responseso that the whole sexual
experience becomes a better andimproved.
And then beyond that, just likein the men, their vitality,
(27:47):
their energy.
I mean, we all, some of theselifestyle events, the average
thing is you go out to dinner,you go to the party, you do some
dancing.
It's 11, 12, 1 o'clock in themorning.
Yes.
Our ability to have thatendurance and, fortitude to, to
continue on is better when yourhormones are balanced.
So we're able to enjoy theseevents, these parties, there's
(28:08):
trips or everything that go,that go later.
So you got the sectoral side andyou got the physiological side.
Not to mention, the, the healthbenefits overall.
So we've got probably to talk alittle bit about the health
benefits, and then I really wantto talk touch on some of the,
with the perceived downsides andsome of the myths about Yeah.
Yeah.
By, by means the floor is yours.
(28:30):
There's a lot of myth out thereabout hormone therapy and, on
the women's side a, a reallypoorly done study was released
in 2002, yet it was carried outby a$1 billion grant from the
National Institutes of theHealth.
Okay.
And what it was, was called theWomen's Health Initiative.
I could spend an hour talkingabout that study.
I'm a, I'm an expert on thatstudy.
(28:50):
I'm an expert on understandingwhy that study had such negative
impact on women's hormones.
But the study is severelyflawed.
Use ste synthetic hormones, andit led to doctors concluding.
And hormones cause breastcancer, blood clots, and all
kind of medical issues, strokesin women.
And so therefore, we shouldn'tuse hormones in women.
(29:12):
It led to an immediate, almost90% decline in the use of
hormone therapy in women.
And it's set off now on ageneration of women being
deprived of the ability to behormonally balanced and enjoy
their life.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
When, when women, women arehormonally imbalanced.
They got dementia, heartdisease, and all of these
things.
When you look at the properliterature with using the
(29:34):
biologically identical hormonesof estradiol, progesterone,
testosterone, and thyroid, whatyou actually see is a reduction
in the risk of breast cancer.
Testosterone alone actuallylowers the risk of breast cancer
in women by over 75%, and it'slinear, meaning that the higher
that you bring theirtestosterone levels.
The lower that their breastcancer rate is, that is
(29:55):
testosterone is directly toxicto breast cancer cells.
There's a a famous surgeon inDayton, Ohio named Rebecca
Glazer, and she publishesextensively on this topic and is
actually when she does a breastcancer surgery, she will leave a
testosterone pellet in thecavity where the, breast cancer
tumor was removed and herrecurrence rates are
(30:16):
dramatically low.
You also find.
For example, women with stageone in stage two breast cancers.
And I'm very aggressive aboutmanaging these women.
The conventional wisdom is youdon't give women with breast
cancer testosterone'cause it'sgonna make her come back.
Well, the reality is in theliterature says, particularly
with stage one and stage two,which is the overwhelming
majority
The Tramp (30:36):
mm-hmm.
Dr. John (30:37):
You get that cancer removed and the day after that
cancer surgery is done, you cango ahead and put them on hormone
therapy.
Number one, the recurrence ratesgo down.
That is testosterone is abetter.
Preventer of recurrence thantamoxifen and the poisons that
they use in chemotherapy.
Okay.
That hormones, wow.
Improve the quality of life.
That is the trade off.
(30:57):
And the potential for recurrenceis that the recurrence rate, if
there even is one, is welloffset by the improvement of all
cause mortality by the bebeneficial effects of, the
hormones.
That is, if you said, okay, evenif.
There is a very slight increasein the risk of recurrence of
breast cancer, which is nottrue.
The Tramp (31:18):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (31:19):
Then the reduction of all cause mortality from
dementia heart disease strokes,and all these things outweighs
whatever adversity is.
And the oncologist response tothat, well, that's not my
problem.
I don't want their breast cancerto come back.
They need to go to acardiologist or their family
doctor.
Right.
Well, it is their problem.
Okay.
Because just by doing theirtheir hormones, they're gonna
(31:40):
get a better result in terms ofall cause mortality.
So women clearly have a reducedrisk of all kind of medical
problems when their hormones arebalanced, even in the face of
breast cancer.
So there is absolutely no welldone study that shows that
hormones cause.
Blood clots, strokes, or heartdisease in women infect the
opposite is true.
(32:00):
Let those things are reduced onthe men's side.
Mm-hmm.
We've got a lot of myths aswell.
Testosterone has been claimed toincrease heart attacks.
It has been claimed to increaseprostate cancer.
A lot of people will, worryabout what they call thick blood
or blood clots.
None of that is true.
It is absolutely 100%.
The opposite.
(32:21):
In fact in June of 2024, therewas a big study that was finally
brought out.
It was published in the NewEngland Journal of Medicine.
It was called the TraverseStudy.
And what they did is they gotabout.
10 leading testosteroneauthorities.
Five of'em were verysubstantially anti testosterone.
The Tramp (32:37):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (32:38):
And five of'em were pro testosterone and they got
them together.
They got a grant from theNational Institute of Health and
they started on this studycalled the Traverse Study, which
will evolve over the next.
Few years, but the firstpublication in June of 2024
absolutely specifically lookedat the question.
They took men who were at highrisk for heart disease, they
(32:58):
gave them testosterone therapy.
They broke them up into twoseparate groups, and they
followed them out over time.
And the conclusion was thattestosterone did not increase
the risk of heart disease or, orsignificant heart issues.
Okay.
I, I have a little bit of aproblem with that study.
It didn't bring them to the goodlevels because I know it
actually will reduce it, butI'll take what I can get out of
(33:20):
it.
I can now pretty muchunequivocally state that a study
designed to look at the effectof testosterone and heart
disease now has clearly saidthat testosterone does not
contribute to the increased riskof heart disease.
Similar studies have done inprostate cancer test,
testosterone does not.
Contribute to prostate cancer.
In fact, the current state ofthe art of practices, the day
(33:42):
after your PSA is less than one,you can go back on testosterone
therapy.
And even here in Orlando, wehave a prostate cancer surgeon
who does not require their mendto go off of testosterone
throughout the course of theirprostate cancer.
I see.
Treatment that is.
You can have your testosterone,you can stay on your
testosterone.
You have your prostatectomy.
(34:02):
You do not even need to wait foryour PSA to go down.
So there is no link betweentestosterone.
And prostate cancer.
There, there's some subtlenuances that you need to know as
an expert in there.
And, I talk about them with myprostate cancer patients that I
see in follow up.
And, and the other big one isthick blood and blood clots.
Mm-hmm.
That is becoming my biggestheadache right now.
(34:23):
And I have lots and lots ofissues with it.
I just had a, patient called theother day, almost dropped this
program'cause he said, my doctorsays I'm gonna get thick blood
and I'm gonna get a, stroke.
I need to stop right away.
And, I had to produce the,receipts to prove to him that
that's not the case.
And I did, I've, I've written avery nice three page letter
that's got about a 2020references in it that
(34:45):
specifically itemizes whytestosterone does not cause.
Thick blood or increase the riskof, of blood cuts and strokes.
So it's very safe, it's veryeffective and we know when you
look at the very relevantliterature that, I have no major
negative downside.
I think I've discussed over thecourse of this, this
conversation, I.
(35:06):
That it's safe and effective,and the only issues are, the
excess effects, which may beunpleasant and uncomfortable.
Mm-hmm.
You just need to adjust.
There's, there's no majormedical downside in the major
areas, and I think I've touchedon the literature that clearly
says
The Tramp (35:19):
that.
Right.
No, this has been a, aneye-opening conversation and I
think it just goes to provethat, particularly in the
lifestyle that.
To truly enjoy it.
We need to be the best versionof ourselves.
And if that means hormonalbalancing as you get a little
older and there's no downside toit.
Dr. John (35:42):
Yeah, I agree.
I think you, put the point veryclearly, you want to be the best
that you can be.
You wanna be vital, you wanna beactive, you want to enjoy your
life.
And, and when you bring thesexual aspect into it in the
lifestyle, you wanna be able toenjoy that.
And being hormonally optimizedand metabolically ma managed
properly by an expert whounderstands hormones in their
(36:03):
metabolic impact and does thethings to help you do that, all
of a sudden you're living yourbest life, you're doing the best
you, you can, and the hormonesdirectly contribute to that with
very little downside andcertainly downside that can be
managed.
Right.
The Tramp (36:17):
Absolutely.
Well, Dr.
John, if people wanna reach outto you would you mind sharing
the best way to?
Sure.
Dr. John (36:23):
My office is in Orlando, Florida.
We're called the Florida Centerfor Hormones and Wellness.
Our website is very easy tounderstand.
It's hormones and wellness.com,obviously altogether no spaces,
hormones and wellness.com andwe, have a very active office.
(36:43):
I see people from all over theworld.
I have patients from all overthe country.
The one I I, it even shocks methat I have a number of people
that come in three or four timesa year for pellet therapy.
Mm-hmm.
But a lot of people will go totheir family doctors and find
out that too many doctors arestill practicing on a numerical
based thing that is, your levelsare, or this, that and the
(37:04):
other.
I can't do it.
And yet they feel they can't getto where they need to be.
And so I do a lot of people fromaround the country that will
come in and we.
We manage them from a distance.
So I, I have a lot of successwith that and it's really been
quite rewarding to travel theway that I do within lifestyle,
meet people then end going backhome and find out that they,
can't get the kind of care thatthey need.
Right.
And then they end up doingdistance medicine back to
(37:27):
Orlando with me.
Oh, oh, that's so, it's, it's alot of fun and I've changed a
lot of lives doing this.
It's, it's really, it is thebest kind of medicine ever.
The Tramp (37:35):
That's amazing.
And I'll also put a link if it'sall right on the website,
directly to you guys.
Yep.
And thank you, Dr.
John.
Thank you so much just fortaking the time out of your
weekend and.
Sitting down and talking withus.
Dr. John (37:51):
It's my pleasure.
I love to spread the word andlove to grow.
The understanding of thebenefits and the health of
hormones.
The, the ship is turning around.
More and more.
People are recognizing that it'simportant to be healthy and
vital, to have their hormonesbalanced than I think it's the
horrors done by the Women'sHealth Initiative and other
gender driven articles to keeppeople off of hormones.
People are starting to recognizeit.
(38:12):
That's not the truth.
And they're coming in andgetting treated and we're seeing
some great mm-hmm.
Reverses in that.
Thank you so much for allowingme to participate and I'm, I'm
happy to come back anytime totalk about other specific
issues.
Oh, we certainly will.
Or, expand on some of the thingswe've talked about today.
I'll,
The Tramp (38:27):
I'll take you up on that.
Alright.
Well everyone, thank you forlistening and we're just so
thankful El and I, that you'vejust come on this journey with
us.
And feel free to reach out tous.
I don't have a a MA questionthis week, so feel free to reach
out to us at unapologeticswingers@gmail.com.
(38:47):
Our website is also unapologeticswingers.com and wherever you
happen to be listening to us,just leave us a quick review,
maybe some kind words.
And until next time, I'm thetramp.
You have to be sexy.
You have to be confident and youhave to be unapologetic.
Welcome back to the Unapologetic Swinger Podcast.
I'm the Tramp and guys, today Iam actually on location.
It's been really fun to get outof the studio and take a little
trip down to Florida, and I amso thankful to be sitting here
today with Dr.
John Carla.
And he's from the Florida Centerfor Hormone and Wellness.
(00:30):
Dr.
John, thank you so much forjoining me this morning.
Dr. John (00:35):
Thanks for having me.
It's a lot of fun to be able tohave these interactions, to be
able to get the word outbecause, hormone therapy and
care is so important these daysand people are really just not
understanding it properly totake full advantage.
So it's a real pleasure to behere to help spread the word.
The Tramp (00:50):
Of course.
The topic today is obviouslygoing to be hormonal health and
why it's important in thelifestyle, and maybe we can dig
into some details or maybe juststart with some of the very
intro, intro level stuff, thesurface level stuff that a lot
of people don't realize and thenwe can.
Dive a little deeper, if that'sall right with you, doctor.
Dr. John (01:10):
Yeah.
So, in my practice I tend tohave a very large collection of
lifestyle people.
Mm-hmm.
And so it gives me anopportunity to really see the
impact that hormones make onthese people.
And, over the years now thatI've been doing this and
accumulating that largefollowing in the office, it
really makes me come to theconclusion that if you're in the
lifestyle and you're not reallyoptimizing your hormones and
(01:32):
making sure that your hormonehealth.
As good as it could be, you'rereally missing out because
you're, you're missing anopportunity to enjoy what should
be a very pleasurableexperience.
One which you get to meet thebest people in the world and
have the best experiences interms of friendship, intimate
contact, and the the otherthings that we get to do.
And certainly on the sexual sidewhen hormones are outta balance,
(01:53):
it can really make a negativeeffect to you and your ability
to perform, do well, andcomplete the aspect of the
lifestyle interactions.
So.
Hormone health is crucial bothfor men and women.
We know that these hormonesdecline over time and it can
lead to some really seriousproblems.
And it's not just a sexualthing, it's a life vitality,
(02:16):
health metabolic issues.
And so it's crucial to have anexpert who's able to look at all
of these things.
And deal with them.
And I differentiate a lot ofwhat we do to what I call the
drive by hormone clinics whereyou get your testosterone shot
or your testosterone cream as awoman and go from there.
So it's really, reallyimportant, not just for
(02:37):
lifestylers, but everybody ingeneral, but in particular in
lifestyle, when we're looking tobe the best that we can be.
Mm-hmm.
In all areas of, of, of thatinteraction.
The Tramp (02:46):
I would also.
Submit in there that it's alsofor your mental health because
if, you feel good, you canperform, you can do all these
things, it's gonna boost you upmentally as well.
Dr. John (02:57):
Well, absolutely.
I mean, there's no question whenyou look at things I.
Specifically medically in termsof medical health.
You know, hormonal balancereduces the risk of dementia in
women by over 80%.
It reduces the risk in dementiain men.
It improves depression andanxiety.
So from a clinical standpoint,mentally it does, but from a.
(03:19):
A, a, a mental standpoint interms of the satisfaction and
enjoyment of life.
When you're engaged in thelifestyle activities, or even if
you're not just the everydayinteractions with your friends
and your, partners and all thatto be clearheaded, feeling
vital, active, and vigorous.
Of course that's just gonna makeyou feel happier less depressed
and less anxious about life.
(03:40):
Sure.
The Tramp (03:41):
Now, hormones at their core, they're naturally
produced by the body.
Especially they're prevalent inour youth or as we come into
adolescence and during, thenatural human growth cycle.
At what point typically do youstart to see a decline?
Dr. John (03:58):
Yeah, that's a good question.
And I want to emphasize a coupleof points within your question.
Hormones are naturally occurringin your body.
And so we're gonna get into, inthis discussion, I believe some
of the myths about the potentialharms of hormones.
And I wanna be clear there, arelots of myths and lots of
misunderstanding about thepotential downside.
(04:20):
And the reality is, when you'retalking about a natural
substance that however you wannalook at it, whether God put it
in your body or revolution, putit in your body, something
that's supposed to be in yourbody.
Intuitively, it doesn't makesense that that's something
would be harmful if you replaceit later in life.
But what ends up happening withyour hormone balance, both for
(04:40):
men and women, is those hormonesare optimal or best, right
around the primary reproductiveyears at the end of your
twenties, and they're balanced.
They're great.
Everything's performing on allcylinders.
Hopefully, I mean, there areobviously exceptions, but people
are really doing well in theirmid to late twenties.
Then in men, we see a gradualhormonal decline in testosterone
(05:03):
of about 1% to 2% every year.
To the point when you're over50, you're, more than 50% lower
on your testosterone level.
Mm-hmm.
And, and it has effects inphysical performance, sexual
performance, weight distributionsugar metabolism, cholesterol
metabolism, and all of thesedifferent things.
Women as well see declines intheir hormones.
(05:25):
It's a little bit moreirregular.
And if you looked at thegraphical change over time the
way that these hormones go theystill decline.
But then women go through thisdramatic change around the
average age of 51 in the UnitedStates where they're going to
menopause, and those hormonesjust fall off of the table and
crater when the ovaries stopproducing them.
The Tramp (05:43):
Mm-hmm.
And
Dr. John (05:44):
they have a much more dramatic shift from hormonal
balance to men.
Not that they're absent of anyproblems in the forties or so
leading up to that, of course.
So what'll happen is at somepoint or another, and it's very
personal, it's very individual.
Way before you're in yourfifties or your sixties, you're
gonna start to see some changes.
The way that you think, yourmental clarity, your energy,
(06:07):
your vitality.
You're gonna start to see weightgain that's completely
unexplained.
I'm sure a lot of the women outthere will either have
experienced or no friends.
They'll, go something along theway.
Oh, I know.
You know, I, I'm not doinganything differently.
I'm eating the same I'mexercising the same.
I haven't changed anything yet.
Slowly over the last few years,I'm gaining weight.
(06:29):
Well, that is a clear indicatorof hormonal decline.
And it goes to show you thathormones are not just for sexual
function.
The Tramp (06:35):
Right.
Dr. John (06:36):
They're, crucial.
And again, when we get intolifestyle issues, the sexual
aspect of it.
Maybe frequently or all toofrequently becomes a little bit
more focused, but there's somany other things that start to
occur from, a hormonalimbalance.
So it goes well beyond thesexual aspect.
And we have the ability now tounderstand these things and do
them in a very safe and veryeffective way to mm-hmm.
(06:58):
Restore that balance and getpeople back on their game both
physically, physiologically, andsexually by restoring these
hormones.
The Tramp (07:06):
Now I would also think that a lot of people, even
some people in the medicalcommunity will say, well, that's
just part of getting a littleolder.
Or people will self justify.
They're like, yeah, I've lost a,a step in my game.
And it's just, it's just part ofthe process and I'm gonna try to
be as graceful as possiblemoving onto that next phase of
(07:27):
my life.
But I'm one of those people whoare like, no, I'm not.
I'm going to.
I have a certain standard and Iwant to keep that standard.
Dr. John (07:34):
Well, I mean, that is a great question and I get that
a lot of times that I even had.
A few people who have actuallyleft the office and go, well,
you know, this is not normal.
It's not natural.
The hormones decline.
I need to learn to live with it.
One of the saddest stories Iever remember was when I first
doing this, 15 years ago, I hada lady come into the office and
(07:55):
she was experiencing all of thehorrors of hormonal decline.
And she had gone to her GYNdoctor and, and was.
Kind of telling her the storyand, and the GYN doctor looked
at her, put her hands on thetable, stood up and said, you
know what, big girl, sometimesyou have to put your grownup
panties on and get over it.
And then she stormed out of theroom.
(08:16):
And just the heartless, carelessapproach to that.
It is out there.
And, that is indeed some of theattitude now.
The Tramp (08:24):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (08:25):
by simply restoring something to levels that were
present in your youth, or maybeeven sometimes a little bit
higher, we can preserve thevitality in the health with a
natural substance.
It's one thing to say thatyou're artificially prolonging
life when you create a drug thatmight have side effects or
problems, or, cause otherunexpected.
Results in the longer, it's onething to take a synthetic,
(08:47):
something to try to restoresomething or to do something
unnatural.
It's another thing just to putback in the body what's been
declining when you know that,that something is directly
related to restoring health andvitality.
So, I want to challenge thatthinking and say that you don't
have to accept normal, a agerelated decline.
That, science technology.
Gave us the ability to deal withthese things and restore this in
(09:10):
a safe and effective way.
The Tramp (09:13):
That's, I think, safe and effective is, is the key
there, realistically, becausewe've all seen the drug
commercials and it seems likethere's this whole litany of,
whatever the, the big farm ispushing, and I think by law they
have to list off, you know?
Can cause this or that or this.
And it seems like half thecommercials are possible side
effects, where typically withhormonal balancing, yeah, you
(09:37):
may have some side effects, butnot nearly to that level.
Dr. John (09:42):
Well, I really spend a lot of time in my office
differentiating between sideeffects.
And excess effects.
The Tramp (09:50):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (09:51):
To me, when I consider a side effect of something like,
you have a headache and you takea pill and your thumb falls off,
I mean, that's, that's clearlyan unwanted hazard from the
medicine that you took.
The Tramp (10:03):
Yes.
Dr. John (10:04):
Okay.
And you can say there'ssomething really wrong with
that.
Okay.
Now, if we look at a hormone, ifwe take estradiol or what people
will commonly call estrogen, ifa woman does that and she has
uterine bleeding.
Well, someone would call that aside effect.
I just call that an excesseffect.
That means you took too muchestradiol, it wasn't properly
(10:24):
balanced by progesterone.
And estradiol naturally causesuterine proliferation, and if
you have uterine proliferation,you're gonna get some bleeding.
So that's not really a sideeffect.
That's just getting more of whatthe, the hormone causes in an
unregulated, unmonitored way.
Same thing with testosterone.
If you take testosterone and youget oily skin.
(10:47):
That's not a side effect.
That's what the testosteronedoes.
Testosterone makes your skinproduce a little bit of extra
oil.
If you make a little bit ofextra oil and you get some acne,
that's not really a side effect.
That's what testosterone does,
The Tramp (11:01):
right?
Dr. John (11:02):
And it's the same thing if you get irritable or
anxious when you're ontestosterone.
It, it's not a side effect.
We know that's what it does in,and in a way it's kind of good
because if, if you get irritableand your testosterone level is
up and you're a caveman, itgives you that drive to go out
and hunt.
So these are things that are, inmy opinion, misnamed as side
(11:26):
effects when they're really justexcess effects, because there is
not one well documented studywhen you take a natural hormone.
That causes any serious medicaladverse harm.
The Tramp (11:39):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (11:39):
Now what ends up happening is a lot of the
synthetics are out there, andwhen we talk about Premarin or
the synthetic estrogen when welook at these things true, they
have a blood clot blood.
Cox can go to the lungs, theycan kill you.
I mean, those are side effects,but they're as a result of the
inflammatory nature of thesesynthetic substances which don't
(12:00):
belong in the body.
The Tramp (12:01):
Okay?
Dr. John (12:01):
So we, we have to be very, very clear, and when you
start to understand theliterature and you start to
unwind.
These studies that it's just acrime that the medical community
and the editors of the journalshave allowed the conflation of
the, the synthetics with thenatural hormones.
It, I mean, it's a, it's averitable crime.
(12:23):
You've got journal articles thatyou cannot unwind whether
they're using estradiol, whichis the natural estrogen or the
synthetic Premarin.
You've got journal articles formen that you don't know whether
they're using.
You know, Ava or withdrawalmethyl testosterone or whatever,
synthetic, they're over theregular testosterone.
You can read the article and youcannot tell whether they're, the
(12:45):
naturals or the synthetics.
Mm-hmm.
Yet when you clearly identifyarticles that have either
synthetic or natural hormones,then you can see a clear
difference in the outcomes.
Mm-hmm.
Because, if you read and studylike I do, I.
And you just can't believe thefact that the medical community
today is so against hormones.
Yet when you parse theliterature properly, when you
(13:07):
find the clear differentiationsbetween the natural and the
synthetics, it's not like, well,it's, it's, it's arguable, you
know?
No, there's a clear differencewhen you take the natural
hormones.
It's safe and effective.
The Tramp (13:18):
Mm-hmm.
With
Dr. John (13:18):
little downside, other than excess effects, which may
be bothersome by not medicallydamaging.
In that instance, you justadjust'em until you find the
right combination.
Sure.
Versus the synthetics, which areclearly dangerous and, that just
has not been enforced properlyby the editors or the journals.
And, and it's really a crimebecause it's allowed the myths
that there are potentialdownsides of the hormones.
(13:41):
And, and they're not.
The Tramp (13:43):
Do you think there's a correlation?
Something that I've run acrossand, and I've heard other people
run across where withtestosterone, for example, and,
what would be considered anappropriate level for a man of
say, 40 years old that in recentyears, the guidelines have
actually been adjusted.
(14:03):
Downward have you found that aswell?
Dr. John (14:06):
Yeah.
Well there, there's a realproblem there.
Okay.
Because o over the last 50years, so, well, lemme take a
step back.
When you look at a lab test
The Tramp (14:16):
mm-hmm.
Dr. John (14:16):
What does that range mean on a lab test?
Okay.
That range is purely astatistical number that has no
functional significancewhatsoever.
So what happens is the lab willget a thousand men who are of a
particular age.
And they will draw their blood.
And it's important that theyhave no symptoms of
(14:38):
testosterone.
So they're screened for nosymptoms of testosterone.
They get a thousand men of aparticular age, and they do
what's called a standarddeviation.
Okay?
And for the statistical nuts outthere, they'll understand this
clearly.
But basically what you get iswhat?
A bell-shaped curve, and theytake two standard deviations off
of the mean, and they call thatnormal.
It's.
(14:59):
Purely arbitrary how they comeup with that number.
And even though we know for anabsolute medical fact that his
testosterone levels decline, therate of illness goes up.
The Tramp (15:09):
Mm-hmm.
But
Dr. John (15:10):
because over the last 50 years, the herd average of
testosterone has been declining.
They have lowered that normalrange of testosterone in the
blood slip.
Well, it's completely makes nosense because we know that the
lower the testosterone levelsare the worst that men do.
I think it's important torecognize that, the herd range
(15:30):
of testosterone has beendeclining.
Well, what does that mean?
It means that we call the normalrange that, but I, I, as I said
earlier, there is no functionalsignificance to that.
I see
The Tramp (15:41):
we have,
Dr. John (15:41):
we have clear medical literature that says that men
need a testosterone level thatachieves the medical and
physical results that they need.
The Tramp (15:50):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (15:51):
And there's a great article published in this
journal called Mayo Clinics,which obviously is put out by
the Mayo Clinic.
And it took about 20international testosterone
experts that got together afterthe FDA changed some guidelines
back in the early 2010s.
And they came out and made acomment that there is no level
of testosterone at which a manwith significant testosterone
(16:14):
symptoms might not benefit fromgetting supplemental
testosterone if his symptoms aresevere enough to warrant a
trial.
The Tramp (16:22):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (16:23):
And what that means is.
You could have a normal, or evenin fact, high testosterone
level.
If for some reason you feel oryour doctor feels that you're
low in testosterone, there's noreason why you shouldn't trial
testosterone because we know.
And this is gonna blow somepeople away.
We know that I cannot hurt youno matter what level of
(16:44):
testosterone I put you at.
I can make you not feel good.
Oily skin, acne, irritability,aggression, things like that.
Mm-hmm.
But I can't medically hurt you.
I can't, you can't get heartproblems, you can't get prostate
problems.
You're not gonna get thickblood, you're not gonna get
blood clots.
You're gonna get none of that.
'cause there's no literature outthere that shows that any of
(17:05):
that happens.
So what I'm getting at is if theMayo Clinic and the leading
testosterone experts around theworld say that there's no level
at which your testosterone mightbe improved, if you feel have
symptoms.
That means to everyday people.
If you think you're low ontestosterone and you consult
with an expert who reallyunderstands hormone balance
(17:26):
mm-hmm.
There's no problem with takingyour level and raising it
higher.
So if you look at the rangetoday, the range today and the
blood slips is something around300 to roughly a thousand.
And that varies from lab to lab.
Sure.
And you'll get doctors that'llgo, okay, well you're 301, your
testosterone level is normal.
You don't need testosterone.
(17:46):
And then the next patient willcome in and his level is 299,
and they'll say, yeah, you're299, you're below the range.
You can get testosteronefunctionally.
What's the difference between299 and 301?
There's none.
So looking at that number makesno sense, and there are many,
many people that havetestosterone levels that are 4,
5, 600 that I see in my office.
(18:07):
We have to consider otherthings.
What are the hormones that areyou're eating in your food that
are interfering with your body,receiving the testosterone
that's there at that particularlevel, and if using more
testosterone to override that,to crowd out these hormones that
come up in your food, is thatokay or you know.
What is going on genetically,that the receptor, where that
(18:28):
hormone plugs into is misshapenslightly, and that the way to
come over that is just tooverwhelm it with more
testosterone.
The Tramp (18:34):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (18:34):
You've got these special circumstances that
you're just trying to overcomewhat's going on in nature and in
the environment.
The toxicities, the heavy metalsthat you might consume.
Mm-hmm.
Hormones in your food, radiationeffects on the shape of the
receptor or the genetic effects.
And for all of these things, youcan use a higher level.
(18:55):
And in many cases, in fact, inmy experience, well over 90% of
the time overcome whatever it isthat's blocking your body's
ability to receive thetestosterone or the estrogen or
the progesterone or the thyroid,or whatever it is that we're
using.
The Tramp (19:09):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (19:09):
To try to make you feel healthier, more vital and
active.
So I can assure people thathormones are safe.
They're effective.
Well done literature shows, nodownside.
And I want to talk about that alittle bit, but there is
absolutely no downside when itcomes to men or women's health.
The Tramp (19:25):
Now you brought up something very interesting
there.
I think a lot of people onlyassociate hormonal health
strictly with testosterone andestrogen which are the core,
what you would call the sexhormones or what you will, but
it, sounded like there are a lotmore facets out there than
simply those two big players, ifyou will.
Dr. John (19:43):
Yeah.
There, there, there are several.
And, and, and I'd say thatthere's.
Four major hormones that wespend a lot of time with at
their basic, although there'sprobably a regular usage in our
office we're probably dealingwith about 10 or 12 or somewhere
around that.
But the big ones are thetestosterone and the estradiol,
which we know a lot about.
And then the secondary hormonesare progesterone for women and
(20:05):
thyroid for both men and women.
The Tramp (20:07):
Okay.
Dr. John (20:07):
And, and thyroid in particular is one that is
really.
W dramatically misunderstood bythe medical community.
And we use a lot of thyroid and,and pretty much in my office, if
you walk in and, and, and theword fatigue or energy come
outta your mouth, you're gonnaend up with a thyroid
prescription.
The Tramp (20:26):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (20:26):
Because thyroid is a metabolic hormone.
And, and when you're not dialedup.
Metabolically, you're gonna betired and fatigued and those are
gonna be symptoms.
And I would say, well, over 90%of the time, if I are tired and
fatigued and they go on thyroid,they're gonna get better.
And it, it's dramatic.
And yet that's another hormone,which many, many everyday
doctors think that the numbertells them how to treat it.
(20:49):
That is this little black numberon this white piece of paper is
gonna tell me how to treat you.
Mm-hmm.
So that you feel better.
And I love to tell my patientsand I get the funniest little
deer in the headlights look whenI do that, I said, so you go to
your family doctor and you say,doctor, I'm tired.
I'm fatigued.
You know, I'm gaining weight.
I've got no energy.
I've got no sex drive.
(21:10):
I.
You know, my brain is all cloudyand you go on and you list 37
thyroid symptoms.
Mm-hmm.
And he goes, Nope.
This piece of paper over herewhere this black number says
it's not your thyroid.
Go lose some weight, exercisemore, get more sleep, and come
back in six months.
And then you come back in sixmonths and you do that, you're
still as miserable as you werein the beginning.
And he says, it's not yourthyroid, it's something else.
(21:30):
And you go, what is it?
He goes, I don't know yet.
90% of the time when I givethose people thyroid, they're
dramatically better.
Mm-hmm.
So, I mean.
Why don't give'em thyroid and,and then the same holds with the
thyroid.
That is, the good literatureshows that if I give you too
much thyroid that your bodyneeds, you'll have a certain set
of excess effect symptoms.
(21:51):
Mm-hmm.
But I'm not gonna hurt you.
Well.
The problem is, is that there'sillness out there called Graves
disease, and it's an autoimmunedisorder in which your immune
system starts to attack yourbody and it attacks your brain.
It attacks your heart, itattacks your bone, so many other
organs, and it attacks yourthyroid.
And when your immune systemattacks your thyroid, your
(22:14):
thyroid starts to go haywire,and the levels of your thyroid
go up.
The Tramp (22:17):
Okay?
Dr. John (22:18):
And the way that Graves' disease presents is with
the symptoms of too muchthyroid.
And so, Graves' disease is oftencalled hyperthyroidism, okay?
And so when you look at the labslip, you're gonna see very high
thyroid levels, okay?
The reality is, is the thyroidproblem in Graves' disease is a
victim, not the perpetrator.
Because what happens is if yougo and you fix the thyroid
(22:40):
issue, usually by eitherremoving the thyroid or
poisoning the thyroid
The Tramp (22:44):
mm-hmm.
Dr. John (22:44):
And you do studies 10 years later, you're gonna still
find that they get brainproblems, heart problems, bone
problems, and all other thingsthat they say that you're gonna
get from too much thyroid thatyou never get when you look at
the literature for, for giving alot of thyroid, you know,
everyday doctors conflate thisand bring this over there and,
it's really wrong to do that.
And I would say the most.
(23:04):
Violent, nasty phone calls thatI get from family doctors
regards thyroid, and yet I havenot had one single problem with
thyroid that's caused thehospitalization in the 15 years
that I've been doing it.
I'm very aggressive in my use ofthyroid.
Matter of fact, there is areally, really good book out
there called UnderstandingHypothyroidism and is written by
(23:26):
a doctor who used to be thepresident of the American
Thyroid Association and theAmerican Thyroid Association,
and the american College ofclinical Endocrinologists or A
CCE are two of the most violent,anti functional medicine
approaches to thyroid.
And these doctors are justvicious and ruthless in their
attack on the functional medicalcommunity of which I'm in and
(23:47):
the way that we use our thyroid.
So this doctor was a presidentof the A TA and he got done with
his leadership of the A TA andabout over the next two or three
years, he started to go out andactually.
Practiced medicine out of theivory tower more on an everyday
basis of seeing people in aclinic.
Sure.
And he started to come to therealization that, wait a minute
here.
(24:08):
All of this stuff we've beenkeep preaching about, about
thyroid is wrong and we need tostart listening to people about
their thyroid symptoms.
And he did a 180 degree turn.
He wrote a book about it sayingthat we completely misunderstand
the way to treat thyroid andneed to be treating it more on a
functional basis.
And we do that.
People are gonna be happier andhealthier.
And I use that book every singleday in my office and is
(24:29):
eyeopening to a lot of patientswho now.
Understand that their doctor arenot maybe necessarily giving
them the right mm-hmm.
Advice on thyroid.
So it's really important tounderstand that.
Again, just like withtestosterone, when you talk
about thyroid.
There may be a level that isabove the range that may be very
helpful and healthy for avariety of reasons that are
(24:50):
largely environmental, is whythe amount of thyroid in your
body is not enough to producethe effect on the thyroid
functions of your body that wesee otherwise.
So I see it's, it's a crucialthing.
Same thing with estradiol thing,same thing with progesterone
and, and progesterone is crucialto balance the effects of
estradiol in a woman's body.
The Tramp (25:09):
Mm-hmm.
No, this has all beenfascinating.
Now, in regards specificallywith the lifestyle, o obviously
there's the sexual component.
What other tie-ins do you see orhave seen in your experience
just in terms of the lifestyleand, and with.
Proper hormonal balancing.
Dr. John (25:29):
Sure.
Let's bring some clarity to thesexual side of the lifestyle
into hormones.
There's absolutely no questionthat men who have more optimal
testosterone levels functionbetter sexually.
They have.
Better erections, they havebetter recovery time.
They have more ability to golonger.
Their durability is longer,their satisfaction is greater,
(25:50):
their ability to have bettersensation, better climax.
The Tramp (25:53):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (25:54):
Every aspect of the spectral function is better when
those testosterone levels arehigher and more appropriate for
what their body needs.
We touched on this and I didn'tsay it specifically.
There is no specifictestosterone level.
At which a man needs to be inorder to be optimum.
What, what is some man may do at1100?
Another man may need 1800.
(26:16):
1900, or even over 2000 to getOh wow.
So it has to be tailoredindividually to each individual
person.
So by tailoring them, you mayget men that.
Have gone to another doctor andthey say, Nope, a thousand as
high as you can go.
And the guy goes home and goes,oh, that's the best.
I, I guess that's the best I cando.
And maybe tweaking it anothertwo or 300 points is gonna make
(26:36):
a world of difference.
And all of a sudden the lightgoes on.
He feels a lot better.
And because that level has beenadjusted to his specific needs
considering his physiologicalresponse mm-hmm.
To that.
So it's.
Clearly important for sexualfunction and optimizing those
things is good beyond just thesex and men, their energy, their
(26:58):
focus, their motivation, theirdrive, you know, getting the
urge to perform
The Tramp (27:02):
right, and, and just their
Dr. John (27:04):
overall enjoyment and satisfaction gets up
dramatically when you optimizetheir levels.
For the women, it, it's the samething.
How many women are on thelifestyle that.
That do because their partnerwants'em to or whatever, and
they know, they kind of thinkthat they like it, but getting
their levels optimized, theirdrive goes up, their desire to
initiate gets better, theirresponsiveness gets better.
(27:25):
Mm-hmm.
Their, their lubrication getsbetter, their sensitivity, their
ability to climax gets better.
So they may be enjoying thelifestyle to a degree, but when
you get them optimized wheretheir levels are good for their
body, they get a better responseso that the whole sexual
experience becomes a better andimproved.
And then beyond that, just likein the men, their vitality,
(27:47):
their energy.
I mean, we all, some of theselifestyle events, the average
thing is you go out to dinner,you go to the party, you do some
dancing.
It's 11, 12, 1 o'clock in themorning.
Yes.
Our ability to have thatendurance and, fortitude to, to
continue on is better when yourhormones are balanced.
So we're able to enjoy theseevents, these parties, there's
(28:08):
trips or everything that go,that go later.
So you got the sectoral side andyou got the physiological side.
Not to mention, the, the healthbenefits overall.
So we've got probably to talk alittle bit about the health
benefits, and then I really wantto talk touch on some of the,
with the perceived downsides andsome of the myths about Yeah.
Yeah.
By, by means the floor is yours.
(28:30):
There's a lot of myth out thereabout hormone therapy and, on
the women's side a, a reallypoorly done study was released
in 2002, yet it was carried outby a$1 billion grant from the
National Institutes of theHealth.
Okay.
And what it was, was called theWomen's Health Initiative.
I could spend an hour talkingabout that study.
I'm a, I'm an expert on thatstudy.
(28:50):
I'm an expert on understandingwhy that study had such negative
impact on women's hormones.
But the study is severelyflawed.
Use ste synthetic hormones, andit led to doctors concluding.
And hormones cause breastcancer, blood clots, and all
kind of medical issues, strokesin women.
And so therefore, we shouldn'tuse hormones in women.
(29:12):
It led to an immediate, almost90% decline in the use of
hormone therapy in women.
And it's set off now on ageneration of women being
deprived of the ability to behormonally balanced and enjoy
their life.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
When, when women, women arehormonally imbalanced.
They got dementia, heartdisease, and all of these
things.
When you look at the properliterature with using the
(29:34):
biologically identical hormonesof estradiol, progesterone,
testosterone, and thyroid, whatyou actually see is a reduction
in the risk of breast cancer.
Testosterone alone actuallylowers the risk of breast cancer
in women by over 75%, and it'slinear, meaning that the higher
that you bring theirtestosterone levels.
The lower that their breastcancer rate is, that is
(29:55):
testosterone is directly toxicto breast cancer cells.
There's a a famous surgeon inDayton, Ohio named Rebecca
Glazer, and she publishesextensively on this topic and is
actually when she does a breastcancer surgery, she will leave a
testosterone pellet in thecavity where the, breast cancer
tumor was removed and herrecurrence rates are
(30:16):
dramatically low.
You also find.
For example, women with stageone in stage two breast cancers.
And I'm very aggressive aboutmanaging these women.
The conventional wisdom is youdon't give women with breast
cancer testosterone'cause it'sgonna make her come back.
Well, the reality is in theliterature says, particularly
with stage one and stage two,which is the overwhelming
majority
The Tramp (30:36):
mm-hmm.
Dr. John (30:37):
You get that cancer removed and the day after that
cancer surgery is done, you cango ahead and put them on hormone
therapy.
Number one, the recurrence ratesgo down.
That is testosterone is abetter.
Preventer of recurrence thantamoxifen and the poisons that
they use in chemotherapy.
Okay.
That hormones, wow.
Improve the quality of life.
That is the trade off.
(30:57):
And the potential for recurrenceis that the recurrence rate, if
there even is one, is welloffset by the improvement of all
cause mortality by the bebeneficial effects of, the
hormones.
That is, if you said, okay, evenif.
There is a very slight increasein the risk of recurrence of
breast cancer, which is nottrue.
The Tramp (31:18):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (31:19):
Then the reduction of all cause mortality from
dementia heart disease strokes,and all these things outweighs
whatever adversity is.
And the oncologist response tothat, well, that's not my
problem.
I don't want their breast cancerto come back.
They need to go to acardiologist or their family
doctor.
Right.
Well, it is their problem.
Okay.
Because just by doing theirtheir hormones, they're gonna
(31:40):
get a better result in terms ofall cause mortality.
So women clearly have a reducedrisk of all kind of medical
problems when their hormones arebalanced, even in the face of
breast cancer.
So there is absolutely no welldone study that shows that
hormones cause.
Blood clots, strokes, or heartdisease in women infect the
opposite is true.
(32:00):
Let those things are reduced onthe men's side.
Mm-hmm.
We've got a lot of myths aswell.
Testosterone has been claimed toincrease heart attacks.
It has been claimed to increaseprostate cancer.
A lot of people will, worryabout what they call thick blood
or blood clots.
None of that is true.
It is absolutely 100%.
The opposite.
(32:21):
In fact in June of 2024, therewas a big study that was finally
brought out.
It was published in the NewEngland Journal of Medicine.
It was called the TraverseStudy.
And what they did is they gotabout.
10 leading testosteroneauthorities.
Five of'em were verysubstantially anti testosterone.
The Tramp (32:37):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. John (32:38):
And five of'em were pro testosterone and they got
them together.
They got a grant from theNational Institute of Health and
they started on this studycalled the Traverse Study, which
will evolve over the next.
Few years, but the firstpublication in June of 2024
absolutely specifically lookedat the question.
They took men who were at highrisk for heart disease, they
(32:58):
gave them testosterone therapy.
They broke them up into twoseparate groups, and they
followed them out over time.
And the conclusion was thattestosterone did not increase
the risk of heart disease or, orsignificant heart issues.
Okay.
I, I have a little bit of aproblem with that study.
It didn't bring them to the goodlevels because I know it
actually will reduce it, butI'll take what I can get out of
(33:20):
it.
I can now pretty muchunequivocally state that a study
designed to look at the effectof testosterone and heart
disease now has clearly saidthat testosterone does not
contribute to the increased riskof heart disease.
Similar studies have done inprostate cancer test,
testosterone does not.
Contribute to prostate cancer.
In fact, the current state ofthe art of practices, the day
(33:42):
after your PSA is less than one,you can go back on testosterone
therapy.
And even here in Orlando, wehave a prostate cancer surgeon
who does not require their mendto go off of testosterone
throughout the course of theirprostate cancer.
I see.
Treatment that is.
You can have your testosterone,you can stay on your
testosterone.
You have your prostatectomy.
(34:02):
You do not even need to wait foryour PSA to go down.
So there is no link betweentestosterone.
And prostate cancer.
There, there's some subtlenuances that you need to know as
an expert in there.
And, I talk about them with myprostate cancer patients that I
see in follow up.
And, and the other big one isthick blood and blood clots.
Mm-hmm.
That is becoming my biggestheadache right now.
(34:23):
And I have lots and lots ofissues with it.
I just had a, patient called theother day, almost dropped this
program'cause he said, my doctorsays I'm gonna get thick blood
and I'm gonna get a, stroke.
I need to stop right away.
And, I had to produce the,receipts to prove to him that
that's not the case.
And I did, I've, I've written avery nice three page letter
that's got about a 2020references in it that
(34:45):
specifically itemizes whytestosterone does not cause.
Thick blood or increase the riskof, of blood cuts and strokes.
So it's very safe, it's veryeffective and we know when you
look at the very relevantliterature that, I have no major
negative downside.
I think I've discussed over thecourse of this, this
conversation, I.
(35:06):
That it's safe and effective,and the only issues are, the
excess effects, which may beunpleasant and uncomfortable.
Mm-hmm.
You just need to adjust.
There's, there's no majormedical downside in the major
areas, and I think I've touchedon the literature that clearly
says
The Tramp (35:19):
that.
Right.
No, this has been a, aneye-opening conversation and I
think it just goes to provethat, particularly in the
lifestyle that.
To truly enjoy it.
We need to be the best versionof ourselves.
And if that means hormonalbalancing as you get a little
older and there's no downside toit.
Dr. John (35:42):
Yeah, I agree.
I think you, put the point veryclearly, you want to be the best
that you can be.
You wanna be vital, you wanna beactive, you want to enjoy your
life.
And, and when you bring thesexual aspect into it in the
lifestyle, you wanna be able toenjoy that.
And being hormonally optimizedand metabolically ma managed
properly by an expert whounderstands hormones in their
(36:03):
metabolic impact and does thethings to help you do that, all
of a sudden you're living yourbest life, you're doing the best
you, you can, and the hormonesdirectly contribute to that with
very little downside andcertainly downside that can be
managed.
Right.
The Tramp (36:17):
Absolutely.
Well, Dr.
John, if people wanna reach outto you would you mind sharing
the best way to?
Sure.
Dr. John (36:23):
My office is in Orlando, Florida.
We're called the Florida Centerfor Hormones and Wellness.
Our website is very easy tounderstand.
It's hormones and wellness.com,obviously altogether no spaces,
hormones and wellness.com andwe, have a very active office.
(36:43):
I see people from all over theworld.
I have patients from all overthe country.
The one I I, it even shocks methat I have a number of people
that come in three or four timesa year for pellet therapy.
Mm-hmm.
But a lot of people will go totheir family doctors and find
out that too many doctors arestill practicing on a numerical
based thing that is, your levelsare, or this, that and the
(37:04):
other.
I can't do it.
And yet they feel they can't getto where they need to be.
And so I do a lot of people fromaround the country that will
come in and we.
We manage them from a distance.
So I, I have a lot of successwith that and it's really been
quite rewarding to travel theway that I do within lifestyle,
meet people then end going backhome and find out that they,
can't get the kind of care thatthey need.
Right.
And then they end up doingdistance medicine back to
(37:27):
Orlando with me.
Oh, oh, that's so, it's, it's alot of fun and I've changed a
lot of lives doing this.
It's, it's really, it is thebest kind of medicine ever.
The Tramp (37:35):
That's amazing.
And I'll also put a link if it'sall right on the website,
directly to you guys.
Yep.
And thank you, Dr.
John.
Thank you so much just fortaking the time out of your
weekend and.
Sitting down and talking withus.
Dr. John (37:51):
It's my pleasure.
I love to spread the word andlove to grow.
The understanding of thebenefits and the health of
hormones.
The, the ship is turning around.
More and more.
People are recognizing that it'simportant to be healthy and
vital, to have their hormonesbalanced than I think it's the
horrors done by the Women'sHealth Initiative and other
gender driven articles to keeppeople off of hormones.
People are starting to recognizeit.
(38:12):
That's not the truth.
And they're coming in andgetting treated and we're seeing
some great mm-hmm.
Reverses in that.
Thank you so much for allowingme to participate and I'm, I'm
happy to come back anytime totalk about other specific
issues.
Oh, we certainly will.
Or, expand on some of the thingswe've talked about today.
I'll,
The Tramp (38:27):
I'll take you up on that.
Alright.
Well everyone, thank you forlistening and we're just so
thankful El and I, that you'vejust come on this journey with
us.
And feel free to reach out tous.
I don't have a a MA questionthis week, so feel free to reach
out to us at unapologeticswingers@gmail.com.
(38:47):
Our website is also unapologeticswingers.com and wherever you
happen to be listening to us,just leave us a quick review,
maybe some kind words.
And until next time, I'm thetramp.
You have to be sexy.
You have to be confident and youhave to be unapologetic.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.