June 15, 2025 • 50 mins
Jay and Elle are joined by a special guest, very near and dear to our hearts - the Tramp. Finally we get the chance to talk about what the Tramp has been up to. This will be a good one!
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Episode Transcript
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Elle (00:02):
Welcome back to Unapologetic Swingers.
I'm Elle.
Jay (00:06):
And I'm Jay.
If you're wondering why Trampisn't here, co-hosting is
because we're interviewing himtoday.
Hey, say hello Tramp.
Hey,
Tramp (00:18):
good morning everyone.
How are you guys today?
Elle (00:20):
Oh, we're doing excellent.
We're so excited to have youback.
Tramp (00:23):
Well, thank you.
Jay (00:24):
I've been away a little bit.
Yeah, and this is gonna bereally great for our listeners
out there in podcast Landbecause this has been Tramp
show.
He started it, he's continuedit, he's allowed us to join in
and now we're gonna talk abouthim and his life and what
brought him here, whatadventures he's had and what's
(00:44):
coming up shortly.
So we're all, I think, prettyexcited for this one.
Elle (00:48):
I think we've been waiting for this one for months, just
with little anticipation and oursuper excited to.
Share with everybody yourjourney and what's been going on
with you, and not too muchdetails, but until we get to the
fun stuff.
Tramp (01:03):
Yeah.
I've kept a lot under wraps justbecause of my own journey, but
now, as you say it's time toopen up and just let it all out,
Elle (01:12):
and we're excited about that.
Boy, you are in such a goodplace right now.
It's lovely to see your smile.
Jay (01:18):
He's a happy boy and no doubt some of the fun he's been
having contributes to that.
Shall we start, take it back intime.
You started the podcast withyour then wife mm-hmm.
Lady and you were enjoying it?
Tramp (01:32):
Yeah.
At that point it was all aboutjust our adventures as we ease
into the lifestyle, the good,the bad, the ugly, and that
really, that theme continuesthrough as you guys have joined
me and honestly become anintegral part of the podcast.
Elle (01:49):
Well, we have all had them.
Everybody's had the Well, sure.
The good, the bad, and the ugly.
So it's just easy to talk about.
Tramp (01:54):
But a lot of people will only talk about the good, right?
They don't, they don'tnecessarily talk about the fears
and the doubts and the uglyparts of ourselves that we just
don't reveal.
True.
I'll
Jay (02:08):
agree with that.
Good point.
Tramp (02:10):
But no, you guys have just jumped in with both feet
and I am just so appreciative.
More than you know.
Elle (02:18):
Well, I'll tell you, it was a dinner that we were having
with you back in October, andyou opened up and said, you
know, I, I really miss thepodcast and that's something
that I wanna continue doing.
It is a passion that you havehad from the beginning.
I remember the first day youtold us you were guys, we're
gonna do this, and we looked ateach other and said, we'll help
(02:39):
out.
And we jumped in and I, it, ithas been just such a pleasure
for me to work with you and tosee our growth.
A lot less nervous when we getstarted but just as goofy and
awkward sometimes, which isfine.
I'm okay with that.
I can live with that.
Tramp (02:58):
If you can't let your guards down amongst some of your
closest friends, then who canyou
Elle (03:02):
and share it with?
Like the world?
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
Yeah.
Jay (03:07):
Wait, this is going global.
Oh yeah.
Oh, that's right.
We have fans now everywhere.
Indonesia, Yugoslavia.
Elle (03:15):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Jay (03:17):
Pretty exciting.
I think there
Elle (03:18):
was a Bora Bora one.
That one.
That one really thrilled me.
I hope you're on a hammock andhave a drink in your hand while
you're listening to this.
Jay (03:28):
Okay.
So episode 10 for our listenersis when we join the podcast.
Elle (2) (03:34):
Yep.
Jay (03:34):
Rolling forwards.
So let's talk about you Sure.
Dating when you've, like one ofyour first dates.
Once we can talk about thedivorce a little if you want, or
we can just skip past and talkabout your journey as you tried
to rebuild your life.
Tramp (03:50):
Of course.
The one thing I'll touch on withthat is it was unfortunate and
what a lot of people ask willbe, well, was the lifestyle
involved with you guys goingyour separate ways?
And actually it wasn't, I alwaysthought it brought us, even
though there were lots of speedbumps along the way I truly
(04:12):
thought that it brought uscloser together and a better
understanding.
But ultimately, I.
I have to say that as Ellen andI constantly harp on, it was a
breakdown in communication.
And I think I did a, soloepisode, the podcast only solo
episode and back
Elle (04:32):
before we were on.
Yes.
Yeah,
Tramp (04:34):
yeah.
And just really trying to hammerinto people's skulls that with
your partner, with your spouse,in this world, in the lifestyle
world, communication is a must.
And you have to be able to saythe awesome things and the not
so awesome things and holdingthem into yourself.
Elle (2) (04:53):
Mm-hmm.
Tramp (04:53):
Serves no one.
Right.
Couldn't
Jay (04:55):
agree
Tramp (04:55):
more.
And that will also extend notjust lifestyle specific things,
but just overall with therelationship.
You have to be open andtransparent with your partner.
I know it's a old saying, buthonesty is the best policy.
Elle (2) (05:09):
Right.
Jay (05:10):
If I may, I feel the relationships and the open
communication you develop in thelifestyle should do and should
carry over into your vanillalife.
If you can talk the morningafter about whatever sexual
scenario you had with yoursignificant other, whether you
can talk about when you did thisor when I saw you doing that,
(05:31):
talking about things likegetting the taxes done or who's
gonna take the car in forservice are nothing, right?
There's, there's no, oh, I'm notsure how they're gonna react to
this news.
Mm-hmm.
Blah, blah, blah.
And it's gonna cause friction.
You don't have friction.
You shouldn't have friction.
You shouldn't have friction.
Yeah.
And, in my previous life in theUnited States Marine Corps,
(05:52):
thank you very much.
Thank you for your service.
We used to have a safety sayingon a mission, if there's a
doubt, there is no doubt.
Meaning if you think there's aproblem, you need to voice it
right away.
And in communication and thelifestyle, if something happened
that bothered you, maybe it wasjust they said something, but
(06:13):
you heard something else, or Ithought you said it was okay
that I do this or that with thisperson.
Some people have a firm ruleagainst kissing and then
somebody kisses and then you sitthere and hold that in and be
angry for a week.
Or do you next morning, Hey, youknow what?
I thought we had a, a rule and Ikind of feel that you broke that
(06:35):
last night.
Or I'm sorry you weren't there,but I broke it last night.
You talk through it and youclear the air and you're
stronger coming out the otherside.
Elle (06:44):
Right?
Jay (06:45):
I have to agree, Jay.
Tramp (06:46):
Looking
Elle (06:46):
back because I know it was such a shock for you, but
looking back, do you see thatthe breakdown in communication
played a part?
Tramp (06:56):
Yes.
It's funny.
Hindsight is always 2020, sowhen you're in the middle of it,
when emotions are running sohigh and you're fighting or
putting your all into somethingand it's, and it still just
doesn't seem like enough.
Once you put a little bit ofdistance and you become a little
bit more evened out andlevelheaded, you can say, yeah,
(07:18):
that wasn't acceptable, thatthat breakdown of communication
just.
Wasn't.
Okay.
Yeah.
And, I unfortunately had gottento a point where I felt like I
could not voice those validconcerns.
Elle (07:33):
Yep.
Okay.
Been there.
Yeah.
Okay.
So moving on.
Mm-hmm.
Your journey.
It was a journey.
It absolutely was a journey.
And we saw it happen.
You know, we, we all had dinnerat least like once a week it
seems like, for a while.
For a while.
Mm-hmm.
And just, you know, help talkyou through it, help let you,
voice was going on, let
Jay (07:53):
you know you, you weren't alone.
Elle (07:54):
Right.
For sure.
For sure.
And then we all went to theranch on a Sunday.
We did.
And you guys drug me out for aSunday.
Sunday, as I recall did.
Yeah.
We said.
Our treat.
You come over with us and by the
Jay (08:07):
way, just a shameless plug, Sunday fun days in the summer at
the Scarlet Ranch are off thehook.
Yeah, they are so fun.
It is the sexiest adult poolparty you'll ever go to that
doesn't have a pool.
Elle (08:22):
I call it adult summer camp.
Jay (08:25):
That works too.
But tramp, we got him out andgot him mingling, got his
spirits up.
He met some sexy people.
And segue that
Tramp (08:35):
was, you're right, it was last fall.
Mm-hmm.
And I was embroiled in this andyou guys were absolutely
correct.
I needed that outlet.
And it was healthy even thoughit took some.
Convincing from you guys alittle bit because it was, it
was an environment that I was soaccustomed to having a
(08:56):
significant other in.
Elle (2) (08:57):
Right.
Tramp (08:57):
And now all of a sudden I am the single guy.
Elle (2) (09:00):
Yeah.
Tramp (09:01):
And it's, it's very much a fish out of water mindset.
And I realize that all is allmindset, but it took me a while
to feel at ease and even seeingfamiliar faces and being greeted
and welcomed there, I stillcouldn't get outta my own head
for the longest time.
Elle (09:22):
Right.
Yeah, for sure.
It was, it was a step in theright direction.
It was, it was, it wasn't the,oh, I'm over the bridge.
It was just a step,
Tramp (09:29):
it was simply a, a step in the journey.
Elle (09:32):
Yeah.
Tramp (09:32):
And I was lucky enough during that afternoon to meet a
very sexy couple where.
It was a true hot wifesituation.
Elle (2) (09:41):
Yeah.
Tramp (09:42):
And me flying by the seat of my pants
Elle (2) (09:46):
mm-hmm.
Tramp (09:47):
Were like almost too respectful.
I, as I was told after the fact.
Yeah.
So her name, I'm gonna call herSophia.
Elle (2) (09:57):
I love it.
Tramp (09:59):
And,, she was just this really sexy gal with tons of
good energy, extremelyintelligent.
We could sit and talk and, Irecall they had a hookah and,
and we just sat there seeminglyfor hours and had great energy.
Yeah.
You ditched.
That's pretty
Elle (10:14):
quick.
I remember that.
Jay (10:16):
I wasn't, I wasn't offended at all.
Or you No, I wasn't
Elle (10:18):
either.
Elle (2) (10:19):
No.
Elle (10:20):
We smiled,
Jay (10:21):
we're happy for our boy.
Tramp (10:23):
But that, developed into it.
It was relatively short-lived,but.
It got me out of my funk.
Elle (10:36):
Yeah.
And outta your head a little bitand outta my head a little bit.
Yeah.
That was huge.
And
Tramp (10:39):
her and I had the opportunity.
We went on a couple dates.
We, had, some very erotic, sexyplay sessions.
Elle (2) (10:47):
Mm-hmm.
Tramp (10:48):
And, it's funny, her significant other would always
kind of poke me and say, Hey,it's okay.
I think he sensed my own, like Iwas holding back.
Yeah.
Like, I was Yeah, yeah.
You're right.
And, and he's like, it's okay.
I know you're gonna berespectful of us.
So while it was short-lived, itwas just truly eye-opening and
(11:14):
reaffirming to me.
Elle (11:16):
Yeah.
And you needed that, that waspositive affirmation.
It was attention.
It was someone who found yousexy.
It was getting you out of thehouse.
Getting you out of your head.
It was all the things and it,yeah.
We're so grateful.
For that short little time inyour life because it helped
nudge you a little bit moreinto, okay, it's gonna be okay,
(11:37):
I'm gonna get through this andI'm gonna get out of it.
Tramp (11:40):
Yeah.
A lot of people when they gothrough a breakup or a divorce,
that's particularly hard, theytend to ruminate.
They get stuck.
Elle (11:47):
Yeah.
And you spin
Tramp (11:48):
and you spin and you spin.
And that was definitely a timeand place that got me outta that
cycle.
'cause everything was fresh.
Everything was raw.
Oh yeah.
And, and you guys saw thatfirsthand?
Oh,
Jay (11:59):
absolutely.
And for our audience, this is aperson here who, so.
Retrospectively looks instudies, studied communication,
studied personality types, tonot only understand what went
wrong in the last relationship,but how to do better in the
future.
And that really comes acrosswhen he meets people when he's
(12:21):
with us.
This is somebody, you know, if Imay tell, tell a little story.
No, go ahead.
Jay.
LLL is not a fire starter.
We're, we're trying to get her at-shirt for wearing on Sunday
fun days that says, if you'reflirting with me, you have to
tell me.
And Tramp is just so polite andeverything else.
And it's like these two have thehots for each other.
(12:44):
And I'm like, oh my God.
Nothing is ever gonna happenbecause neither one of'em will
be the first to lean in andkiss.
And we got in the habit ofdinner here, drinks, then hot
tubbing, and these two areflirting.
And, and it, we, we did have, Ithink an MF M1 or two, and then
one night we're after HotTubbing, we're all feeling so
(13:05):
good.
We're on the couch, Elle'sbetween us, kind of rubbing our
thighs.
And I just kind of get up andgo, I'm kind of tired.
I'm gonna go to bed.
You two have fun.
And I'm upstairs literallytexting one of our girlfriends,
listening.
It's like they're still talking.
This is never going to happen.
And then I pause, wait,nothing's happening.
(13:27):
Oh, maybe they're kissing andthen they're laughing again, And
then finally, yeah, thingsstarted happening and they had
their own little private sessionand I think they both really,
really enjoyed themselves.
Elle (13:39):
We did have a conversation about how I am not an instigator
or, anything, and you're like, Iprobably won't be either.
Tramp (13:47):
Yeah, I'm the same way.
Elle (13:48):
And at one point I think you got up and went to the
bathroom and you came back andyou sat down next to me and you
just leaned over and gave me akiss.
And I think bets were all off.
I at that point.
Tramp (14:00):
Yeah.
It's, breaking the ice or, orjust, yeah.
The barrier or, you know, it's,
Elle (14:04):
it's, we both, you know, it'd been a, it's a friendship
and I never wanted to push youor to, step over anything or I
never, literally never wantedyou to think.
That the only reason you werehere and that we were friends
with you is because I was gonnafuck you.
I, I honestly, it was in theback of my head, and so I never
(14:27):
ever wanted you to feel thatway.
Tramp (14:28):
Well, I know, and you never did.
And by the same token, I didn'tfeel like I was, or I never
wanted to feel like I was takingadvantage for all the kindness
and care that you guys havegiven me.
Elle (14:39):
Look how s we are.
I know.
Tramp (14:41):
I'm tearing
Jay (14:41):
up over, shut up.
You shut your face.
But yes, that also part of yourjourney, part of my journey,
part of you building up yourconfidence, getting back out
there.
And these two really areincredibly sexy when they get
together.
It's pretty hot.
But that moves on to making newrelationships back when, I was
(15:04):
in the squadron, we had a lot ofsingle lieutenants and they
always, oh, how do I meetpeople?
How do I meet people?
I go join the volleyball team.
I'm like, what?
They're all married people.
I'm like, yes, but marriedpeople have single friends.
They do.
And if you're vetted, and it'ssame with single guys in the
lifestyle, single guys.
Make friends with a couple.
Don't just try to find thesingle girls.
(15:25):
They may not want you in as ahot wife situation or an MFM,
but become friends.
And then once you're vetted,they'll introduce you to other
couples who then have singlefriend, you have to grow your
circle.
And so in helping him do that,we had our friends we met on the
Bliss Cruise last November.
(15:45):
Became fantastic friends with,we had them out for a visit and
of course tramp was included andwere dinner and drinks.
Laughing, joking.
We played dice.
Oh yeah.
You know, and just had a greattime.
But unfortunately our friend, hecaught something on the plane
ride out from Florida.
He was under the weather andwith his permission, the four of
(16:07):
us went and played and had awonderful time.
And he, and, Layla, not her realname, Layla formed a really
strong connection and to thepoint of with her husband's
blessing, flew her out so thatthe two of them could just spend
a, a great weekend together.
And I guess it was great'causewe only saw them for Sunday
(16:30):
brunch when it was on her wayout, on her way out to the
airport.
Elle (16:33):
Now, I will say this too, when the four of us were
playing, I think I spent moretime watching Layla and Tramp
'cause they were so sexytogether.
Oh my God, yes.
And the chemistry wasunbelievable
Jay (16:46):
So, okay, so sorry not to try to jump too fast too far.
Oh, no, that's, that's fine,Jay.
But so we've introduced Laylabecause now if we get to almost
the present Oh, my, we're stilla few
Tramp (16:55):
weeks back.
Sure.
But we've had some amazingadventures and she's really been
pivotal I found someone that I'mattracted to, even though I have
to be respectful, ultimatelyrespectful.
It's one of those situationswhere her husband wants her to
have a great time and.
(17:16):
I'm just happy to be along forthe ride.
So there's definitely mutualattraction and we have a great
time together.
Just as Jay said, she came outfor a weekend.
I've been down there and we bothknow that this experience is in
the here and now, and, and Ithink that's very mature of us.
Mm-hmm.
(17:36):
Where there's going to be, atime period when it won't be
whether I move on or she closesit off or whatever happens.
I'm gonna be thankful for thetime we have.
Elle (17:49):
And the thing is, you two talk about that
Tramp (17:51):
We do, we do it.
It's been so that it's, it's a
Elle (17:53):
constant,, in that conversation, so that it's not
gonna be a surprise.
When it happens, because you'llhave been discussing.
Right?
It'll be sad.
Tramp (18:01):
Of course.
It'll, and I know that, but,
Jay (18:02):
and you'll come over here for dinner and drinks.
I'll make you feel better.
It's always about you, isn't it?
Oh, I'm
Elle (18:11):
sorry.
It's not,
Tramp (18:14):
but let's see, A couple weeks ago I did go down to
Florida.
Elle (18:20):
Yep.
Tramp (18:21):
And we went to South Beach.
Just her and I,
Elle (18:24):
sexy, fun,
Tramp (18:25):
and had a, a lot of fun.
I had never been to South Beach,so in a lot of ways it's, it has
a very Vegas feel to it.
I see that.
So I would say it's, it'slifestyle friendly.
And we met some characters, notpeople that were in the
lifestyle necessarily,
Jay (18:46):
but, but you wish they were.
Tramp (18:48):
Actually, yes.
I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna liethere.
It's, I think part of beingclose to your partners is being
able to say unabashedly, Hey,what do you think of that
couple?
I find her really attractive.
What do you think of him?
Right?
And having that flow ofcommunication once again.
Mm-hmm.
Where you don't have to feellike you're holding it in or
(19:09):
afraid that you'll be, ridiculedfor finding someone else
attractive.
Elle (19:14):
What's more fun is when I look at Jay and say, Hey, she's
hot, isn't she?
I think she's hot.
Jay (19:21):
Yes, I do enjoy that very much.
Unfortunately with the reverse,I have been with you now for
several years and I still don'tknow what your type is.
Elle (19:30):
I think that's so hard to believe.
Jay (19:32):
I point to guys and you're like me.
And then I point to another guy,say, oh yeah.
And I'm like,
Elle (19:37):
it's the same guy.
I like to keep you guessing.
Tramp (19:43):
So one thing that Layla and I discovered is we both love
tiki drinks.
Elle (2) (19:49):
Mm-hmm.
Tramp (19:49):
Now, don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good old fashioned and
a proper cocktail.
But if I want to cut loose agood tiki drink is the weight to
my heart.
You need an umbrella need drinkwith an umbrella and a piece
Jay (19:59):
of fruit hanging on the edge.
Oh,
Tramp (20:01):
we're, we're talking about.
Copious amounts of probably rumor, and pineapple.
You know, she doesn't likepineapple.
Jay (20:10):
I, would just because of your relative size differences,
you tramp being six three andLayla being 5, 2, 2 and a half.
She likes to say she's tiny.
Elle (20:22):
She's a little more, I can't
Jay (20:23):
imagine.
You two go drink for drinktogether.
She can hang,
Elle (20:28):
she's badass.
Jay (20:30):
She actually is.
Tramp (20:32):
But in South Beach of course we found a tiki bar and
the first time was a mediocre,was the bartender.
It was a tiny place.
So-so, okay.
And it was our last night andshe said, let's go back and try
it again.
Yeah.
This time the guy was just offthe charts and amazing.
And there were two othercouples.
They lived in Miami Younger,we're talking probably late
(20:53):
twenties, early thirties.
Mm-hmm.
Both married.
And we started just talking withthem and having a good time, and
the energy was flowing and theysaid, Hey, we're actually almost
doing like a tiki bar crawl.
We're gonna go to the next one.
Would, would you guys like tocome?
Oh yeah.
And it's like, yeah.
Well, so we tag along and go tothis location, and I distinctly
(21:16):
remember, I'm talking to the twoother guys and these are both
very intelligent guys andLayla's over there on the couch
talking to the girls, and all ofa sudden their conversation
drops low and just almost out ofhearing range, all of a sudden I
hear Layla say, well, the trampis my lover.
(21:38):
And I glance over and these twogirls eyes are both just like
massive,
Elle (2) (21:45):
blow it away.
And, and, and
Tramp (21:45):
then they're just taking, and of course that encourages
her.
Sure.
Because who, she has anaudience.
Ha.
Yes.
I've been there, seen that.
And, so these two women are justtaking it in, and then they
start to ask questions.
Elle (21:59):
Yeah.
Tramp (22:00):
And of course we're all, we're pretty well lubricated,
admittedly.
Elle (22:04):
Sure.
So loose.
Tramp (22:05):
Yes.
And, so, it gets to the point ofwhere it's time for us to go
back to the hotel.
It's, I don't know if theycontinued to bar crawl or
whatnot, but it was time for usto head home, make an exit.
Yes.
Yes.
So Layla actually said, Hey, doyou mind if I kiss your guys?
And the girls were like, go forit.
Oh.
(22:25):
And it's funny, one of the guyswas very straight laced and was
like, almost, his brain couldn'teven comprehend.
Elle (22:34):
Right.
Jay (22:35):
Okay.
Tramp (22:35):
And the other one, the, other one he played along.
He's like, the cheek is okay.
Elle (22:39):
Wow.
They didn't want
Jay (22:41):
to get in trouble.
Well, I think
Elle (22:42):
that's what it is.
I was gonna say, yeah.
It's a youth thing.
It's a trap.
It's a trap.
Tramp (22:45):
Well, of course that, that is automatically what the
human brain, I think what we'rehonestly probably programmed to
Elle (2) (22:52):
Oh yeah.
Tramp (22:52):
From a young age, whether it's society or your own moral
compass that's, or religion orwhatever.
It's
Elle (23:00):
not, it's not wrong.
Tramp (23:02):
It's funny, I've, heard people say that everyone has a
swing or gene.
It depends on if it's beenactivated or not.
Elle (23:10):
Okay.
Why did I envision all of ushaving rings?
That we touch together andactivate.
I'm a geek.
Yeah,
Jay (23:17):
a little bit.
A little bit, babe.
You knew that Very sexy.
You knew that.
Tramp (23:20):
But, but I think society is a cross section.
You're gonna have the people whoautomatically gravitate the ones
who their programming is just sohardwired that it's,
Elle (23:29):
there's a fear.
Tramp (23:30):
It yeah, it's an innate fear.
Elle (23:32):
Yeah.
Jay (23:32):
Okay.
But you had a great timetogether.
Oh
Tramp (23:35):
my.
We had a fantastic
Jay (23:36):
time howling around like boyfriend and girlfriend.
Tramp (23:39):
We were, it was so amazing just to walk down the
street hand in hand.
And
Elle (23:44):
you felt so free.
Tramp (23:45):
I felt so free.
And you were at that
Jay (23:46):
point and like
Tramp (23:47):
my old self.
Elle (23:48):
Yeah.
And,
Jay (23:49):
and for our listeners, if you could just see his face
right now.
Yeah.
It is just pure joy Uhhuh.
He is so happy and he has comeso far in such a short amount of
time.
We are.
Love it.
We love this guy and we are sohappy for him right now.
Elle (24:03):
Yay.
Okay.
That is not your only adventurethat you have had in the last
couple of weeks.
That has been very exciting andshall I say, stimulating.
Oh,
Tramp (24:14):
not by a long shot.
Elle (24:15):
Mm-hmm.
Jay (24:16):
Where'd you go?
What'd you do?
Tramp (24:18):
So.
One day Layla and I were talkingand we were talking about kind
of the sexy places we had been.
I said, well, I've been to bothdesires.
Elle (2) (24:29):
Mm-hmm.
Tramp (24:29):
And as we all know, they are couples only.
Elle (2) (24:34):
Right.
Tramp (24:34):
You know, you're not gonna find single males.
Or occasionally you may find theselect single female that's,
part of a, three way triad typesituation.
Right.
And she said, well, my husbandand I are members.
Would you like to go with me oneof these days?
Elle (24:54):
Uhhuh.
Tramp (24:56):
And they aren't only members, they are mansion
members at Pearl, which, ifyou've ever been to Pearl, I, I
know we recently interviewed acouple that were desire
aficionados and, and beenplenty.
So you have the standard roomsand, and the penthouses the
mansion is a completelyseparate, complex on grounds,
(25:19):
and it was unreal.
Would the word posh
Jay (25:23):
come to mind?
Tramp (25:23):
Yes.
Yes.
Elle (25:26):
Tell us a little bit about it.
Tramp (25:27):
It was, let me back up a little bit.
So we set this all up and ofcourse, I pay my own way.
I'm mm-hmm.
Elle (25:35):
I'm
Tramp (25:36):
self, you're not a kept man.
Yes.
I'm not a kept man.
And we work all this out andthis actually happened.
Just last week.
Yeah.
I know you guys have been bitingat the bit to get this
interview.
Elle (25:49):
Oh, you have no idea.
Jay (25:51):
Picked, picked him up at the airport just the other day.
And literally it's like, did youhave a good time?
Yes.
Any problems?
Not really.
Okay.
That's all we're gonna talkabout.
'cause we're saving it for thepodcast otherwise.
Right.
Because it's all gonna come out.
He's gonna tell me everything inthe car.
Then he's gonna tell leverything when he gets to our
house.
Yeah.
Elle (26:06):
Nope.
This is all fresh to us.
This Yes.
This is all
Jay (26:09):
fresh to us.
So what happened?
Tramp (26:10):
So we flew in a day earlier and it's funny when
you've been somewhere before andyou have your routines Right.
And, but you're with someone newand you just don't wanna repeat
just everything.
You wanna Yeah.
You wanna make new memories
Elle (26:28):
new.
Absolutely.
Tramp (26:29):
So.
We fly in a day early.
Okay?
The, pro tip for desire is,unless you live on the East
coast or somewhere where you geta first flight, you're paying a
lot of money.
Elle (26:42):
Wait, a a hundred percent.
Tramp (26:44):
So a lot of people, ourselves included, will fly in,
have a nice dinner, get nice andrested, and then hit desire
first thing the next morning,right?
Because
Jay (26:53):
otherwise you're at the mercy of the airlines and you're
paying for that first day.
And you could not, in itsentirety, you could not get in
until 10 11 that night
Elle (27:01):
and you've dropped a thousand bucks or whatever it
is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jay (27:05):
This is the way to do it, folks.
Mm-hmm.
This is the way.
Tramp (27:08):
We get in and one of my go-tos is there's this, cigar
bar.
Elle (2) (27:13):
Okay.
Tramp (27:14):
In the hotel zone that,, it screams vacation to me.
They make amazing mojitos andCuban cigars and you get a
little bite to eat and thatreally sets the tone for the
vacation.
And Layla, to her credit, shewas like, yeah, let's do that.
I'm not gonna partake.
I'll have a mojito or I'll havea couple drinks.
But
Jay (27:32):
you are kind of a throwback.
I could see you in a bar sittingnext to Humphrey Bogart.
You just, you just really arekind of a classic guy.
Tramp (27:41):
We just had a great time and we were able to reconnect.
Elle (27:45):
Yeah.
Important
Tramp (27:46):
and.
Start the trip off.
Right.
Good.
Elle (27:50):
Yeah.
Tramp (27:50):
So the next morning we get picked up by USA transfers,
one of their, S-U-V-V-I-P typeget ups and the quick, 20 minute
ride to desire pearl.
Mm-hmm.
And here's the biggestdifference with being a someone
who just goes and I guesssomeone with status not to sound
(28:13):
too snooty.
Okay.
Is Well, it wasn't your status.
No, I, I, yeah.
I admit they, they didn't knowtramp from he, the rest of us
down
Elle (28:21):
here.
This is how it goes.
Yeah.
Tramp (28:24):
But since Layla and her husband are, I guess you could
say frequent flyers Sure.
Because of their, membership,almost everyone knew her name
and it was the first thing thatstood out was it was almost like
a family
Elle (28:43):
Aw.
Like,
Tramp (28:43):
being welcome, welcome back.
Welcome home is what they said.
Yeah, I know.
They say that's everyone.
Elle (28:47):
Sure.
Of course.
Jay (28:48):
So you're saying they all are in love with Layla?
Not, oh my God, that woman isback.
Yes.
Elle (28:55):
That's so easy to be in love with her,
Tramp (28:56):
though.
She is wonderful.
And the whole checkin process.
She would just be stopped by,random playmakers and random
bartenders.
Wow.
You know, miss Layla, welcomeback.
Welcome home.
That's pretty awesome.
Elle (29:10):
And did they, did they look at you funny?
Like you're not
Tramp (29:13):
Yeah, you're not Mr.
Layla.
I don't know how else to put it,but.
No, I mean, she did have toexplain a couple times and that
was fine.
Yeah.
But these people are consummateprofessionals, right?
I guarantee they've seen it all.
Elle (29:30):
Oh, yeah.
Well, and in this world and inthe lifestyle, it's not
something that's necessarilylooked down upon.
It's, oh, okay.
Fun.
You brought your lover.
Jay (29:40):
Right.
And if that works for you
Elle (29:42):
Yeah.
Jay (29:42):
Good for you.
Yay.
Yeah.
Tramp (29:44):
We had some phenomenal days.
We stayed in the mansion, marblefloors and our own pool and a
butler and all these perks that,quite frankly are, quite
intoxicating in and ofthemselves.
Sure.
But we were able to operate inthat environment as a couple.
(30:05):
The good, the bad, and the ugly.
Okay.
And I admit we did have somecommunication issues to
overcome.
Okay.
But I'll get to that shortly.
But it was so much fun.
I will admit the very first daythough, since desire Pearl is
where Lady and I, that was ourfirst trip.
Right.
You know, I was wondering thatfor that, our first foray, even
(30:27):
though we were not in thelifestyle, our first foray into
that environment.
So there was a definite pang,and I'm like, oh, that happened
there and that happened there.
I think it's human, but I let itpass.
I took in that moment, I, and Ilet it go.
Elle (30:43):
You acknowledged it and let it go.
I think that was brilliant.
Jay (30:46):
Yeah.
We talked about this on the wayto the airport.
Yeah.
That, you know that it's gonnahappen.
Mm-hmm.
There'll be things that aregonna trigger your memory.
Elle (30:52):
Yeah.
Jay (30:52):
But the way to get over older, painful memories is to
create new ones.
Right.
And I think you succeeded there.
Tramp (30:58):
I did.
I'll never forget them and I'mthankful for them.
Elle (2) (31:02):
There you go.
Tramp (31:03):
But, yeah.
Making new memories with a newperson is definitely just
freeing.
Elle (31:09):
Yeah.
Lightens your heart a littlebit.
Tramp (31:11):
It does.
It does.
And the people we met and allthe fun we had, we probably
drank too much and made assesabout out of ourselves several
times.
Elle (2) (31:23):
Well, yay.
Tramp (31:23):
But it was just so fun getting back into that
environment.
Even more so than what you'dfind at the ranch, for example,
when you're on vacation,everyone is friendly.
Elle (31:35):
Yeah.
Tramp (31:35):
Unlike a vanilla resort where everyone is glued to their
phones or sticks to themselvesor their families, they're not
gonna talk to or walking
Jay (31:42):
by and you say, Hey, how you going?
And they go, why are you talkingto me?
Exactly.
Yeah.
As opposed to desire or a cruisewhere everyone's so upbeat, Hey,
we're doing great.
How are you?
Yeah.
And they mean it.
Or you can say,
Tramp (31:54):
that.
Outfit or that dress, you lookincredibly sexy.
Right.
And not have to worry about someguy wanna knock your teeth out
for paying a compliment to forsure, his lady.
It was so fulfilling to be backin that environment and enjoying
myself.
Jay (32:13):
So if I may ask, was, did you play with others
Tramp (32:18):
one night?
We did.
Okay.
And it was, so that's a bigstep.
This, it, really is.
And whether or not Layla and Iwere ready for that step kind of
remains to be seen.
Okay.
Because let, me lay it out.
We met another couple, we'regonna call them Bob and Betty.
Elle (2) (32:34):
Mm-hmm.
Tramp (32:35):
And she was a sexy blonde and he was a handsome gentleman.
And it was one of those thingswhere, we had met them during
the day.
We went to dinner, we did allthe things.
Hot tub, went dancing, got readyfor theme night, all that stuff.
Espresso martinis is mandatoryin my mind.
(32:56):
And after all of that, everyonegoes back to the hot tub or,
everyone that wants to keep theparty going.
Sure.
And Layla and I had definitelyhad a good day, just having fun
and admittedly overdoing it.
And I don't know if we wereprepared or we hadn't
communicated, but yes, we endedup playing with Bob and Betty.
Elle (2) (33:19):
Okay.
Tramp (33:20):
And I admit, I have to shift my mindset where after
coming from a partneredsituation to a single guy
situation, back to a partneredenvironment where.
I got stuck in the single guy,and I take this on the chin,
admittedly, where I was havinga, a great time with Betty, but
(33:46):
Layla unfortunately thought, andI, again, I wholeheartedly, it's
on me, thought that she wasbeing left out and not heard.
Elle (33:57):
Oh, see, it doesn't matter.
Again, it's, it's communication.
Tramp (34:00):
On the single male side, I only have to worry about my
own feelings.
It's not that I'm intentionally,I'm, I always care.
But
Elle (34:08):
you're not accountable for, to some I'm not.
Tramp (34:10):
I'm not.
I Exactly.
I'm respectful, but I'm notaccountable.
Right.
And in that s one situation,
Jay (34:15):
one of the most respectful gentlemen we know.
Oh, really?
Tramp (34:20):
But I admit that after we both had a chance to dry out
that Layla said, that reallyhurt me.
And, I didn't try to deflect.
I, you wouldn't I be because shefelt like I wasn't paying her
the proper attention, which Iwasn't, I was laser focused on
Right.
On my situation.
(34:40):
It's a straight swap.
Yeah.
E exactly.
Exactly.
But the thing is, she very wellcould have said, I'm gonna go
home today.
And you're on your own.
Elle (2) (34:51):
Yeah.
Tramp (34:52):
In the lifestyle, you have to give grace.
Okay, you may have broken ourboundaries, but I have to weigh
whether is this a deal breakeror do we communicate?
Yeah.
Is there no recovery rather,
Elle (35:06):
right.
Tramp (35:06):
Or do we actually communicate and are we stronger
on the backside because of this?
Elle (35:12):
And
Tramp (35:13):
oh, it was the ladder.
We communicated, we hung low.
We reconnected.
We reconnected.
Good.
And, we had a fantastic rest ofthe trip.
Now, here's the funniest thing,and I was dying to tell you this
in the car the other day.
Jay (35:28):
I'm all ears,
Tramp (35:30):
Bob.
And keep in mind, I'm,admittedly pretty pickled at
this point.
I see this really weird lookcome across his face and he
said, tramp, do you have apodcast?
Jay (35:46):
Oh,
Elle (35:47):
no way.
Is that your first recognition?
Tramp (35:49):
Very first.
Jay (35:50):
Oh my God.
That's hilarious.
Tramp (35:53):
And, I almost just broke into the intro, the outro.
And he said, I said, maybe why?
And he's like, you sound likethe tramp from Unapologetic
spirit.
He actually
Jay (36:04):
called you by name.
Wow.
Tramp (36:06):
And, and I, so we know they're listening to the sound.
And I had, I had to, oh my God,do we love our fans out there in
podcast?
And I had to own up on thefollowing days.
He and I had some just great,conversations and he did ask
about the two of you guys aswell, really, you know, tell,
tell me more about l and j andit's all true.
Elle (36:28):
Yeah, probably.
Tramp (36:29):
But that moment was just so surreal.
Elle (36:32):
Yeah, that's wild.
Tramp (36:34):
It is.
Elle (36:34):
Makes it seem so real.
Tramp (36:36):
Yeah, I would say that the desire trip with Layla was
nothing short of amazing,outstanding answers and memories
that, we made and that I stillhave are nothing short of
incredible and I'll value themforever.
Jay (36:54):
Outstanding.
That is, that is just perfect.
That's what you want to hear foryour friends.
Elle (36:58):
It's exactly what we wanted to see happen.
That was what we wished for you.
My heart is full right now.
Jay (37:06):
Aw.
Yes.
You're so cute.
Elle (37:10):
Well I have a little story which leads into something that
I'm going to be doing in thefuture, and Jay and I just got
back we went to a wedding inVegas and we'll probably talk
about that on another podcastour whole trip.
But on the last night that wewere there.
We had finished playing with alovely single man and had such a
(37:33):
great time with him, and I'mgetting ready for bed and I
flipped a Facebook and I'mlooking and there's a message on
Messenger.
So I opened it up and it is amessage from no follow along, my
sister-in-law, so my brother'swife, her brother, okay.
(37:54):
There is no relationship.
That is, I looked it up
Jay (37:59):
because we all know where this is going.
Elle (38:02):
And the message was very simple and it said, so do, do
dot.
Are you guys down?
And then the pineapple emoji.
And my eyes widened.
Jay (38:15):
I believe she elbowed me in the ribs'cause I was about shit
to fall asleep shit
Elle (38:21):
and read it and whereas previously, when I've gotten
that message from my sororitysister and I freaked out, I'm
like, okay, well there's onlyone reason he is asking.
He is familiar.
And so I responded withsomething like, hmm, why would
you ask a question like that?
And he made some reference tosome photos that we had posted
(38:41):
on Facebook and videos and said,I know what those kind of
parties look like.
Now the funny thing is, thewedding we were at, there was
only one other lifestyle coupleexcept for the bride and groom.
Everybody else was thereridiculously sexy friends.
And so it wasn't a lifestyleevent per se, but apparently it
gave off the vibe.
(39:01):
And so we started texting backand forth.
And he had had a girlfriend.
He's divorced and he had had agirlfriend who was in the
lifestyle, introduced him to it.
And he loves to go meet a coupleand fuck the wife and husbands
like to watch.
Which I can only imagine'causehe's very handsome.
Jay (39:19):
He is extremely handsome, extremely well built ex army,
takes really good care ofhimself and he's.
Experienced the lifestyle.
Elle (39:30):
Right.
So we started a little bit offlirting texting back and forth,
and he confessed that back whenmy brother and his sister got
married, gosh, I think it'sabout 20 years ago.
He thought I was really sexy.
Mm.
I told him I thought he wasreally sexy.
I
Jay (39:48):
mean, he's not wrong.
Luckily they were both marriedto other people at the time.
Right.
So nothing could happen.
Well, he
Elle (39:53):
wasn't married.
He was single back then.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
He was in the middle of being inthe army.
But I was married to somebodyelse, not Jay.
And we just sort of, I don'tknow, maybe admired each other
from afar.
And so this moved into, Hey, doyou have any pictures of videos?
And so I sent him some picturesand videos and then he sent me
(40:15):
some live shots of.
Fun he was having.
And that sort of developed into,Hey, would you mind if I took a
trip out to Florida and I couldvisit my friends that live there
and maybe, we can spend sometime together?
He jumped right on it.
I got a hold of Layla and herhusband and they were going to
(40:37):
secrets that weekend, and westarted making some plans for me
to go out alone for the weekend.
Jay (40:46):
Now, just going to visit Layla and her husband would be a
big deal.
Elle (40:52):
Sure.
Jay (40:53):
Because LL.
Has not embraced the whole hotwife thing.
She doesn't go on dates
Elle (40:59):
other than tramp a little,
Jay (41:00):
right?
She played, she plays with trampwithout me but this is really
big and really new.
Elle (2) (41:05):
Yeah.
Jay (41:06):
And then to take it a step further where, she's going to
hook up, spend a weekend with anold interest, shall we say?
Sure.
And play till her heart'scontent.
Elle (41:19):
Yeah.
Jay (41:20):
So, and I fully support this
Elle (41:22):
and I love it and that makes it that much more sexy
too, is that you're fullysupportive of this and, you
know, I share all the textmessages, he knows exactly
what's going on and it'ssomething new and it's something
different.
So I'm really excited to givethis a shot and hopefully I'll
have.
A few fun stories to share.
Jay (41:39):
Well, and what's really fun for me is to watching her just
blossom this little flirt she'sbecoming, because that's not her
style.
You know, there are women outthere, they miss their husband,
they pop a boob out, take aselfie thinking of you and,
that's just not Elle's style.
And here we are driving throughthe desert outside of Vegas on
the way home.
(42:00):
And he had just texted her andI'm like, take your shorts off.
She's like, what?
I go take your shorts off.
She does.
I go, get your camera, spreadyour legs, play with yourself.
Film a 22nd video.
She does it, she and she sendsit to him and she's like, my
God, I'm so wet.
And I go, yeah, that's thepoint.
(42:21):
Of course, we were drivingthrough a spotty location, so it
was, a while before heconfirmed, we had no cell
reception for like an hour.
And she's like, did you get thevideo?
Did you like it?
And he goes, oh my God, I'vealready masturbated twice to it.
And she just like, lights up,like, oh my God, look at me,
look at me.
I'm so sexy.
And I'm like, I don't think Isound like that.
(42:44):
I'm telling the story.
But the point is all parties aremutually in agreement.
He's very respectful.
He and I have talked, she isfree to play as Tramp alluded to
with his story.
If you're constantly thinkingabout your partner and looking
over there and is my partner,okay, what are they doing then?
(43:08):
Or the reverse.
You're focusing too much on theperson you're playing with.
That's not in the equation rightnow.
She's gonna go out there, she'sbeing with somebody she wants,
who wants her.
She's got a comfort level, he'sgot a comfort level.
She doesn't have to look overher shoulder, she doesn't have
to worry about me and what I'mdoing or what I'm thinking.
(43:29):
I want her to come back withthis smiling like Tramp has been
smiling this entire podcast.
Elle (43:36):
I cannot tell you what it does to the ego for someone who
I have found attractive to sendme a text saying, I have wanted
to fuck you for 20 years.
That was pretty powerful to getthose juices flowing.
Jay (43:52):
I bet.
Good for you.
And I guess we'll have tointerview her on a future
podcast.
I think we should when she getsback,
Tramp (44:00):
but I just wanna highlight with both l and j
that.
That is really a testament tothe security and the trust that
you guys have in each other.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Elle (2) (44:12):
Thanks.
Tramp (44:13):
That, Jay can say to L Hey, I want this for you.
And l being able to embrace,okay, our relationship is
paramount, but I'm so thankfulthat you allow me to express
myself.
Elle (44:29):
Well, and this kind of goes back to the night that Jay
said, I'm tired, I'm going tobed and left us to our devices.
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
That was a huge growth for me.
For you.
I mean, I think you and Laylahave helped each other in some
things, and you and I havehelped each other in some
things.
(44:49):
Oh, absolutely.
And, and that feeling okay.
That this isn't a cheatingsituation.
This is my husband.
Allowing me the freedom toexplore another man who I find
very attractive.
Elle (2) (45:03):
Mm-hmm.
Elle (45:03):
And what you've given me over the last few months has
been very special as well.
And I wanna acknowledge that.
Jay (45:11):
Thank you.
You're
Elle (45:12):
welcome.
Jay (45:12):
They're both grinning, like they're high school crushes
right now.
It's really disgusting.
So to finish up, we've got ashout out from our number one
fan in Canada.
Liz how you doing, sweetie?
And we do hope you come down sowe can show you the ranch.
She asked the question, havethere been any health or safety
(45:33):
concerns related to thelifestyle and how did you deal
with it?
Elle (45:38):
Well, the only health concern that I've ever had, Jay
and I get tested quarterly.
I, we just started with newdoctors a year ago.
Mm-hmm.
It was that awkward conversationwith this somewhat short, older,
although he's probably my ageItalian guy.
And to explain that I'm in thelifestyle and, I swear the man
(46:00):
was blushing.
I'm like, you're a doctor.
But anyway but telling him, no,this is important.
Safe sex.
Get tested regularly, try to bewith people who get tested
regularly.
And there have been severaltimes, and it's not my fault,
it's the fault of the testingwhere I would get a false
(46:22):
positive on an HIV.
Now, the first time thathappened, it freaked me out.
I was in Maui.
Jay had sent me to Maui to visitsome friends, and we were on a
hike.
I'm at the top of this mountainand I look up to see my test
results and I.
Couldn't breathe the entire timeI walked down not knowing that
(46:43):
what they normally do, if itcomes across as positive, is
that they'll do a second test,they'll run a second test.
Maybe there wasn't enough sothey run it again.
And my doctor called, and he'slike, I'm really concerned.
I just wanna make sure we'regonna run it again.
And then this happened a secondtime, and then it happened I
think a third time now.
And so I'm less stressed when ithappens.
(47:06):
I'm still a little anxietybecause that's a concern.
Jay (47:09):
But we have a friend who had the same thing happen.
Elle (47:13):
Yes.
Jay (47:13):
And immediately reached out and started activating her
lifestyle phone tree to leteveryone know.
Please don't do that.
If it's this thing which hassuch a high rate of false
positives, please at least giveit 24 hours.
Yeah.
Or till, you know for surethey'll run it again right away.
Otherwise you just freak outeverybody.
Elle (2) (47:34):
Yeah.
And
Jay (47:35):
we're all on pins and needles for an entire weekend
waiting to find out that it,everything's okay.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
Elle (47:41):
And that's the same for chlamydia or syphilis or any of
those.
If something comes across, takea breath, wait for them to run
another test or take anothertest.
So sometimes you gotta go backdown and give another sample.
But, is just to be on top of itand be aware
Jay (47:56):
and please abstain from sex until you Well, of
Tramp (47:59):
course.
Yeah.
Okay.
I would say my take is, we'veall had those situations where,
the stars align and everythingis right.
And you may play with a couplewithout protection.
Elle (2) (48:15):
Mm-hmm.
Tramp (48:16):
It could be under the influence or whatever reason,
regardless if that's within yourrules or not.
Mm-hmm.
You need to do the right thing.
Number one, having thatconversation.
So if you listen to one of theold episodes with the
Brazilians, that was one ofthose situations where after the
(48:37):
fact we had the adultconversation and we're like,
okay, that got away from us.
It was fun, but we need to nowtake the proper precautions
until everything comes backnegative.
Elle (48:50):
Correct.
Jay (48:51):
Sounds good.
Tramp (48:52):
Yeah.
So it's, taking responsibilityfor your own actions.
Elle (48:55):
Yes.
And that means not having sexwith other people.
That's true.
Until you know you're in theclear.
Correct.
'cause no one wants to.
Do that to somebody else, andyou don't wanna feel responsible
for that.
Mm-hmm.
I would feel horrid.
I would too.
Absolutely.
You know, I would feel bad.
It happened to me too.
But if it does, then happen, youabsolutely need to tell them,
(49:16):
and you have to abstain from sexuntil then.
Tramp (49:21):
Well, guys, this has been a fantastic hi, fantastic
episode.
Elle (49:26):
It's the episode we've been waiting for,
Tramp (49:29):
so you guys can definitely look forward to more
sexy stories from the Tramp.
I know I've been fairly dry.
We,
Elle (49:36):
Wanted to keep it just outta respect for what he was
going through.
Just kind of keep it, let'sinterview other people.
Let's talk about things that aresomewhat generic and it had to
happen and that's okay.
Tramp (49:48):
No, very true, very true.
But guys, we're just so thankfulthat you have chosen to come on
this journey with us.
If you'd like to reach out to uswith an a MA or just, an email
to say hi, we can be reached atunapologetic swingers@gmail.com.
Our website is also unapologeticswingers.com, and the biggest
(50:09):
ask that we have is wherever youhappen to be listening to us,
just leave us a rating orreview.
That would mean the world to us.
Elle (50:18):
Yeah.
That bumps us up a little bit.
We wanna be heard by morepeople.
We wanna be recognized in themiddle of nowhere.
I, well, maybe not in Walmart,but I don't know that
Jay (50:26):
I do, but okay.
Thank you for speaking for bothof us.
Elle (50:30):
Oh, I think that'd be so cool.
Until next time, I'm Al
Tramp (50:35):
and I'm the tramp.
Elle (50:36):
Be sexy,
Tramp (50:37):
be confident.
Elle (50:38):
Be unapologetic.
Welcome back to Unapologetic Swingers.
I'm Elle.
Jay (00:06):
And I'm Jay.
If you're wondering why Trampisn't here, co-hosting is
because we're interviewing himtoday.
Hey, say hello Tramp.
Hey,
Tramp (00:18):
good morning everyone.
How are you guys today?
Elle (00:20):
Oh, we're doing excellent.
We're so excited to have youback.
Tramp (00:23):
Well, thank you.
Jay (00:24):
I've been away a little bit.
Yeah, and this is gonna bereally great for our listeners
out there in podcast Landbecause this has been Tramp
show.
He started it, he's continuedit, he's allowed us to join in
and now we're gonna talk abouthim and his life and what
brought him here, whatadventures he's had and what's
(00:44):
coming up shortly.
So we're all, I think, prettyexcited for this one.
Elle (00:48):
I think we've been waiting for this one for months, just
with little anticipation and oursuper excited to.
Share with everybody yourjourney and what's been going on
with you, and not too muchdetails, but until we get to the
fun stuff.
Tramp (01:03):
Yeah.
I've kept a lot under wraps justbecause of my own journey, but
now, as you say it's time toopen up and just let it all out,
Elle (01:12):
and we're excited about that.
Boy, you are in such a goodplace right now.
It's lovely to see your smile.
Jay (01:18):
He's a happy boy and no doubt some of the fun he's been
having contributes to that.
Shall we start, take it back intime.
You started the podcast withyour then wife mm-hmm.
Lady and you were enjoying it?
Tramp (01:32):
Yeah.
At that point it was all aboutjust our adventures as we ease
into the lifestyle, the good,the bad, the ugly, and that
really, that theme continuesthrough as you guys have joined
me and honestly become anintegral part of the podcast.
Elle (01:49):
Well, we have all had them.
Everybody's had the Well, sure.
The good, the bad, and the ugly.
So it's just easy to talk about.
Tramp (01:54):
But a lot of people will only talk about the good, right?
They don't, they don'tnecessarily talk about the fears
and the doubts and the uglyparts of ourselves that we just
don't reveal.
True.
I'll
Jay (02:08):
agree with that.
Good point.
Tramp (02:10):
But no, you guys have just jumped in with both feet
and I am just so appreciative.
More than you know.
Elle (02:18):
Well, I'll tell you, it was a dinner that we were having
with you back in October, andyou opened up and said, you
know, I, I really miss thepodcast and that's something
that I wanna continue doing.
It is a passion that you havehad from the beginning.
I remember the first day youtold us you were guys, we're
gonna do this, and we looked ateach other and said, we'll help
(02:39):
out.
And we jumped in and I, it, ithas been just such a pleasure
for me to work with you and tosee our growth.
A lot less nervous when we getstarted but just as goofy and
awkward sometimes, which isfine.
I'm okay with that.
I can live with that.
Tramp (02:58):
If you can't let your guards down amongst some of your
closest friends, then who canyou
Elle (03:02):
and share it with?
Like the world?
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
Yeah.
Jay (03:07):
Wait, this is going global.
Oh yeah.
Oh, that's right.
We have fans now everywhere.
Indonesia, Yugoslavia.
Elle (03:15):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Jay (03:17):
Pretty exciting.
I think there
Elle (03:18):
was a Bora Bora one.
That one.
That one really thrilled me.
I hope you're on a hammock andhave a drink in your hand while
you're listening to this.
Jay (03:28):
Okay.
So episode 10 for our listenersis when we join the podcast.
Elle (2) (03:34):
Yep.
Jay (03:34):
Rolling forwards.
So let's talk about you Sure.
Dating when you've, like one ofyour first dates.
Once we can talk about thedivorce a little if you want, or
we can just skip past and talkabout your journey as you tried
to rebuild your life.
Tramp (03:50):
Of course.
The one thing I'll touch on withthat is it was unfortunate and
what a lot of people ask willbe, well, was the lifestyle
involved with you guys goingyour separate ways?
And actually it wasn't, I alwaysthought it brought us, even
though there were lots of speedbumps along the way I truly
(04:12):
thought that it brought uscloser together and a better
understanding.
But ultimately, I.
I have to say that as Ellen andI constantly harp on, it was a
breakdown in communication.
And I think I did a, soloepisode, the podcast only solo
episode and back
Elle (04:32):
before we were on.
Yes.
Yeah,
Tramp (04:34):
yeah.
And just really trying to hammerinto people's skulls that with
your partner, with your spouse,in this world, in the lifestyle
world, communication is a must.
And you have to be able to saythe awesome things and the not
so awesome things and holdingthem into yourself.
Elle (2) (04:53):
Mm-hmm.
Tramp (04:53):
Serves no one.
Right.
Couldn't
Jay (04:55):
agree
Tramp (04:55):
more.
And that will also extend notjust lifestyle specific things,
but just overall with therelationship.
You have to be open andtransparent with your partner.
I know it's a old saying, buthonesty is the best policy.
Elle (2) (05:09):
Right.
Jay (05:10):
If I may, I feel the relationships and the open
communication you develop in thelifestyle should do and should
carry over into your vanillalife.
If you can talk the morningafter about whatever sexual
scenario you had with yoursignificant other, whether you
can talk about when you did thisor when I saw you doing that,
(05:31):
talking about things likegetting the taxes done or who's
gonna take the car in forservice are nothing, right?
There's, there's no, oh, I'm notsure how they're gonna react to
this news.
Mm-hmm.
Blah, blah, blah.
And it's gonna cause friction.
You don't have friction.
You shouldn't have friction.
You shouldn't have friction.
Yeah.
And, in my previous life in theUnited States Marine Corps,
(05:52):
thank you very much.
Thank you for your service.
We used to have a safety sayingon a mission, if there's a
doubt, there is no doubt.
Meaning if you think there's aproblem, you need to voice it
right away.
And in communication and thelifestyle, if something happened
that bothered you, maybe it wasjust they said something, but
(06:13):
you heard something else, or Ithought you said it was okay
that I do this or that with thisperson.
Some people have a firm ruleagainst kissing and then
somebody kisses and then you sitthere and hold that in and be
angry for a week.
Or do you next morning, Hey, youknow what?
I thought we had a, a rule and Ikind of feel that you broke that
(06:35):
last night.
Or I'm sorry you weren't there,but I broke it last night.
You talk through it and youclear the air and you're
stronger coming out the otherside.
Elle (06:44):
Right?
Jay (06:45):
I have to agree, Jay.
Tramp (06:46):
Looking
Elle (06:46):
back because I know it was such a shock for you, but
looking back, do you see thatthe breakdown in communication
played a part?
Tramp (06:56):
Yes.
It's funny.
Hindsight is always 2020, sowhen you're in the middle of it,
when emotions are running sohigh and you're fighting or
putting your all into somethingand it's, and it still just
doesn't seem like enough.
Once you put a little bit ofdistance and you become a little
bit more evened out andlevelheaded, you can say, yeah,
(07:18):
that wasn't acceptable, thatthat breakdown of communication
just.
Wasn't.
Okay.
Yeah.
And, I unfortunately had gottento a point where I felt like I
could not voice those validconcerns.
Elle (07:33):
Yep.
Okay.
Been there.
Yeah.
Okay.
So moving on.
Mm-hmm.
Your journey.
It was a journey.
It absolutely was a journey.
And we saw it happen.
You know, we, we all had dinnerat least like once a week it
seems like, for a while.
For a while.
Mm-hmm.
And just, you know, help talkyou through it, help let you,
voice was going on, let
Jay (07:53):
you know you, you weren't alone.
Elle (07:54):
Right.
For sure.
For sure.
And then we all went to theranch on a Sunday.
We did.
And you guys drug me out for aSunday.
Sunday, as I recall did.
Yeah.
We said.
Our treat.
You come over with us and by the
Jay (08:07):
way, just a shameless plug, Sunday fun days in the summer at
the Scarlet Ranch are off thehook.
Yeah, they are so fun.
It is the sexiest adult poolparty you'll ever go to that
doesn't have a pool.
Elle (08:22):
I call it adult summer camp.
Jay (08:25):
That works too.
But tramp, we got him out andgot him mingling, got his
spirits up.
He met some sexy people.
And segue that
Tramp (08:35):
was, you're right, it was last fall.
Mm-hmm.
And I was embroiled in this andyou guys were absolutely
correct.
I needed that outlet.
And it was healthy even thoughit took some.
Convincing from you guys alittle bit because it was, it
was an environment that I was soaccustomed to having a
(08:56):
significant other in.
Elle (2) (08:57):
Right.
Tramp (08:57):
And now all of a sudden I am the single guy.
Elle (2) (09:00):
Yeah.
Tramp (09:01):
And it's, it's very much a fish out of water mindset.
And I realize that all is allmindset, but it took me a while
to feel at ease and even seeingfamiliar faces and being greeted
and welcomed there, I stillcouldn't get outta my own head
for the longest time.
Elle (09:22):
Right.
Yeah, for sure.
It was, it was a step in theright direction.
It was, it was, it wasn't the,oh, I'm over the bridge.
It was just a step,
Tramp (09:29):
it was simply a, a step in the journey.
Elle (09:32):
Yeah.
Tramp (09:32):
And I was lucky enough during that afternoon to meet a
very sexy couple where.
It was a true hot wifesituation.
Elle (2) (09:41):
Yeah.
Tramp (09:42):
And me flying by the seat of my pants
Elle (2) (09:46):
mm-hmm.
Tramp (09:47):
Were like almost too respectful.
I, as I was told after the fact.
Yeah.
So her name, I'm gonna call herSophia.
Elle (2) (09:57):
I love it.
Tramp (09:59):
And,, she was just this really sexy gal with tons of
good energy, extremelyintelligent.
We could sit and talk and, Irecall they had a hookah and,
and we just sat there seeminglyfor hours and had great energy.
Yeah.
You ditched.
That's pretty
Elle (10:14):
quick.
I remember that.
Jay (10:16):
I wasn't, I wasn't offended at all.
Or you No, I wasn't
Elle (10:18):
either.
Elle (2) (10:19):
No.
Elle (10:20):
We smiled,
Jay (10:21):
we're happy for our boy.
Tramp (10:23):
But that, developed into it.
It was relatively short-lived,but.
It got me out of my funk.
Elle (10:36):
Yeah.
And outta your head a little bitand outta my head a little bit.
Yeah.
That was huge.
And
Tramp (10:39):
her and I had the opportunity.
We went on a couple dates.
We, had, some very erotic, sexyplay sessions.
Elle (2) (10:47):
Mm-hmm.
Tramp (10:48):
And, it's funny, her significant other would always
kind of poke me and say, Hey,it's okay.
I think he sensed my own, like Iwas holding back.
Yeah.
Like, I was Yeah, yeah.
You're right.
And, and he's like, it's okay.
I know you're gonna berespectful of us.
So while it was short-lived, itwas just truly eye-opening and
(11:14):
reaffirming to me.
Elle (11:16):
Yeah.
And you needed that, that waspositive affirmation.
It was attention.
It was someone who found yousexy.
It was getting you out of thehouse.
Getting you out of your head.
It was all the things and it,yeah.
We're so grateful.
For that short little time inyour life because it helped
nudge you a little bit moreinto, okay, it's gonna be okay,
(11:37):
I'm gonna get through this andI'm gonna get out of it.
Tramp (11:40):
Yeah.
A lot of people when they gothrough a breakup or a divorce,
that's particularly hard, theytend to ruminate.
They get stuck.
Elle (11:47):
Yeah.
And you spin
Tramp (11:48):
and you spin and you spin.
And that was definitely a timeand place that got me outta that
cycle.
'cause everything was fresh.
Everything was raw.
Oh yeah.
And, and you guys saw thatfirsthand?
Oh,
Jay (11:59):
absolutely.
And for our audience, this is aperson here who, so.
Retrospectively looks instudies, studied communication,
studied personality types, tonot only understand what went
wrong in the last relationship,but how to do better in the
future.
And that really comes acrosswhen he meets people when he's
(12:21):
with us.
This is somebody, you know, if Imay tell, tell a little story.
No, go ahead.
Jay.
LLL is not a fire starter.
We're, we're trying to get her at-shirt for wearing on Sunday
fun days that says, if you'reflirting with me, you have to
tell me.
And Tramp is just so polite andeverything else.
And it's like these two have thehots for each other.
(12:44):
And I'm like, oh my God.
Nothing is ever gonna happenbecause neither one of'em will
be the first to lean in andkiss.
And we got in the habit ofdinner here, drinks, then hot
tubbing, and these two areflirting.
And, and it, we, we did have, Ithink an MF M1 or two, and then
one night we're after HotTubbing, we're all feeling so
(13:05):
good.
We're on the couch, Elle'sbetween us, kind of rubbing our
thighs.
And I just kind of get up andgo, I'm kind of tired.
I'm gonna go to bed.
You two have fun.
And I'm upstairs literallytexting one of our girlfriends,
listening.
It's like they're still talking.
This is never going to happen.
And then I pause, wait,nothing's happening.
(13:27):
Oh, maybe they're kissing andthen they're laughing again, And
then finally, yeah, thingsstarted happening and they had
their own little private sessionand I think they both really,
really enjoyed themselves.
Elle (13:39):
We did have a conversation about how I am not an instigator
or, anything, and you're like, Iprobably won't be either.
Tramp (13:47):
Yeah, I'm the same way.
Elle (13:48):
And at one point I think you got up and went to the
bathroom and you came back andyou sat down next to me and you
just leaned over and gave me akiss.
And I think bets were all off.
I at that point.
Tramp (14:00):
Yeah.
It's, breaking the ice or, orjust, yeah.
The barrier or, you know, it's,
Elle (14:04):
it's, we both, you know, it'd been a, it's a friendship
and I never wanted to push youor to, step over anything or I
never, literally never wantedyou to think.
That the only reason you werehere and that we were friends
with you is because I was gonnafuck you.
I, I honestly, it was in theback of my head, and so I never
(14:27):
ever wanted you to feel thatway.
Tramp (14:28):
Well, I know, and you never did.
And by the same token, I didn'tfeel like I was, or I never
wanted to feel like I was takingadvantage for all the kindness
and care that you guys havegiven me.
Elle (14:39):
Look how s we are.
I know.
Tramp (14:41):
I'm tearing
Jay (14:41):
up over, shut up.
You shut your face.
But yes, that also part of yourjourney, part of my journey,
part of you building up yourconfidence, getting back out
there.
And these two really areincredibly sexy when they get
together.
It's pretty hot.
But that moves on to making newrelationships back when, I was
(15:04):
in the squadron, we had a lot ofsingle lieutenants and they
always, oh, how do I meetpeople?
How do I meet people?
I go join the volleyball team.
I'm like, what?
They're all married people.
I'm like, yes, but marriedpeople have single friends.
They do.
And if you're vetted, and it'ssame with single guys in the
lifestyle, single guys.
Make friends with a couple.
Don't just try to find thesingle girls.
(15:25):
They may not want you in as ahot wife situation or an MFM,
but become friends.
And then once you're vetted,they'll introduce you to other
couples who then have singlefriend, you have to grow your
circle.
And so in helping him do that,we had our friends we met on the
Bliss Cruise last November.
(15:45):
Became fantastic friends with,we had them out for a visit and
of course tramp was included andwere dinner and drinks.
Laughing, joking.
We played dice.
Oh yeah.
You know, and just had a greattime.
But unfortunately our friend, hecaught something on the plane
ride out from Florida.
He was under the weather andwith his permission, the four of
(16:07):
us went and played and had awonderful time.
And he, and, Layla, not her realname, Layla formed a really
strong connection and to thepoint of with her husband's
blessing, flew her out so thatthe two of them could just spend
a, a great weekend together.
And I guess it was great'causewe only saw them for Sunday
(16:30):
brunch when it was on her wayout, on her way out to the
airport.
Elle (16:33):
Now, I will say this too, when the four of us were
playing, I think I spent moretime watching Layla and Tramp
'cause they were so sexytogether.
Oh my God, yes.
And the chemistry wasunbelievable
Jay (16:46):
So, okay, so sorry not to try to jump too fast too far.
Oh, no, that's, that's fine,Jay.
But so we've introduced Laylabecause now if we get to almost
the present Oh, my, we're stilla few
Tramp (16:55):
weeks back.
Sure.
But we've had some amazingadventures and she's really been
pivotal I found someone that I'mattracted to, even though I have
to be respectful, ultimatelyrespectful.
It's one of those situationswhere her husband wants her to
have a great time and.
(17:16):
I'm just happy to be along forthe ride.
So there's definitely mutualattraction and we have a great
time together.
Just as Jay said, she came outfor a weekend.
I've been down there and we bothknow that this experience is in
the here and now, and, and Ithink that's very mature of us.
Mm-hmm.
(17:36):
Where there's going to be, atime period when it won't be
whether I move on or she closesit off or whatever happens.
I'm gonna be thankful for thetime we have.
Elle (17:49):
And the thing is, you two talk about that
Tramp (17:51):
We do, we do it.
It's been so that it's, it's a
Elle (17:53):
constant,, in that conversation, so that it's not
gonna be a surprise.
When it happens, because you'llhave been discussing.
Right?
It'll be sad.
Tramp (18:01):
Of course.
It'll, and I know that, but,
Jay (18:02):
and you'll come over here for dinner and drinks.
I'll make you feel better.
It's always about you, isn't it?
Oh, I'm
Elle (18:11):
sorry.
It's not,
Tramp (18:14):
but let's see, A couple weeks ago I did go down to
Florida.
Elle (18:20):
Yep.
Tramp (18:21):
And we went to South Beach.
Just her and I,
Elle (18:24):
sexy, fun,
Tramp (18:25):
and had a, a lot of fun.
I had never been to South Beach,so in a lot of ways it's, it has
a very Vegas feel to it.
I see that.
So I would say it's, it'slifestyle friendly.
And we met some characters, notpeople that were in the
lifestyle necessarily,
Jay (18:46):
but, but you wish they were.
Tramp (18:48):
Actually, yes.
I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna liethere.
It's, I think part of beingclose to your partners is being
able to say unabashedly, Hey,what do you think of that
couple?
I find her really attractive.
What do you think of him?
Right?
And having that flow ofcommunication once again.
Mm-hmm.
Where you don't have to feellike you're holding it in or
(19:09):
afraid that you'll be, ridiculedfor finding someone else
attractive.
Elle (19:14):
What's more fun is when I look at Jay and say, Hey, she's
hot, isn't she?
I think she's hot.
Jay (19:21):
Yes, I do enjoy that very much.
Unfortunately with the reverse,I have been with you now for
several years and I still don'tknow what your type is.
Elle (19:30):
I think that's so hard to believe.
Jay (19:32):
I point to guys and you're like me.
And then I point to another guy,say, oh yeah.
And I'm like,
Elle (19:37):
it's the same guy.
I like to keep you guessing.
Tramp (19:43):
So one thing that Layla and I discovered is we both love
tiki drinks.
Elle (2) (19:49):
Mm-hmm.
Tramp (19:49):
Now, don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good old fashioned and
a proper cocktail.
But if I want to cut loose agood tiki drink is the weight to
my heart.
You need an umbrella need drinkwith an umbrella and a piece
Jay (19:59):
of fruit hanging on the edge.
Oh,
Tramp (20:01):
we're, we're talking about.
Copious amounts of probably rumor, and pineapple.
You know, she doesn't likepineapple.
Jay (20:10):
I, would just because of your relative size differences,
you tramp being six three andLayla being 5, 2, 2 and a half.
She likes to say she's tiny.
Elle (20:22):
She's a little more, I can't
Jay (20:23):
imagine.
You two go drink for drinktogether.
She can hang,
Elle (20:28):
she's badass.
Jay (20:30):
She actually is.
Tramp (20:32):
But in South Beach of course we found a tiki bar and
the first time was a mediocre,was the bartender.
It was a tiny place.
So-so, okay.
And it was our last night andshe said, let's go back and try
it again.
Yeah.
This time the guy was just offthe charts and amazing.
And there were two othercouples.
They lived in Miami Younger,we're talking probably late
(20:53):
twenties, early thirties.
Mm-hmm.
Both married.
And we started just talking withthem and having a good time, and
the energy was flowing and theysaid, Hey, we're actually almost
doing like a tiki bar crawl.
We're gonna go to the next one.
Would, would you guys like tocome?
Oh yeah.
And it's like, yeah.
Well, so we tag along and go tothis location, and I distinctly
(21:16):
remember, I'm talking to the twoother guys and these are both
very intelligent guys andLayla's over there on the couch
talking to the girls, and all ofa sudden their conversation
drops low and just almost out ofhearing range, all of a sudden I
hear Layla say, well, the trampis my lover.
(21:38):
And I glance over and these twogirls eyes are both just like
massive,
Elle (2) (21:45):
blow it away.
And, and, and
Tramp (21:45):
then they're just taking, and of course that encourages
her.
Sure.
Because who, she has anaudience.
Ha.
Yes.
I've been there, seen that.
And, so these two women are justtaking it in, and then they
start to ask questions.
Elle (21:59):
Yeah.
Tramp (22:00):
And of course we're all, we're pretty well lubricated,
admittedly.
Elle (22:04):
Sure.
So loose.
Tramp (22:05):
Yes.
And, so, it gets to the point ofwhere it's time for us to go
back to the hotel.
It's, I don't know if theycontinued to bar crawl or
whatnot, but it was time for usto head home, make an exit.
Yes.
Yes.
So Layla actually said, Hey, doyou mind if I kiss your guys?
And the girls were like, go forit.
Oh.
(22:25):
And it's funny, one of the guyswas very straight laced and was
like, almost, his brain couldn'teven comprehend.
Elle (22:34):
Right.
Jay (22:35):
Okay.
Tramp (22:35):
And the other one, the, other one he played along.
He's like, the cheek is okay.
Elle (22:39):
Wow.
They didn't want
Jay (22:41):
to get in trouble.
Well, I think
Elle (22:42):
that's what it is.
I was gonna say, yeah.
It's a youth thing.
It's a trap.
It's a trap.
Tramp (22:45):
Well, of course that, that is automatically what the
human brain, I think what we'rehonestly probably programmed to
Elle (2) (22:52):
Oh yeah.
Tramp (22:52):
From a young age, whether it's society or your own moral
compass that's, or religion orwhatever.
It's
Elle (23:00):
not, it's not wrong.
Tramp (23:02):
It's funny, I've, heard people say that everyone has a
swing or gene.
It depends on if it's beenactivated or not.
Elle (23:10):
Okay.
Why did I envision all of ushaving rings?
That we touch together andactivate.
I'm a geek.
Yeah,
Jay (23:17):
a little bit.
A little bit, babe.
You knew that Very sexy.
You knew that.
Tramp (23:20):
But, but I think society is a cross section.
You're gonna have the people whoautomatically gravitate the ones
who their programming is just sohardwired that it's,
Elle (23:29):
there's a fear.
Tramp (23:30):
It yeah, it's an innate fear.
Elle (23:32):
Yeah.
Jay (23:32):
Okay.
But you had a great timetogether.
Oh
Tramp (23:35):
my.
We had a fantastic
Jay (23:36):
time howling around like boyfriend and girlfriend.
Tramp (23:39):
We were, it was so amazing just to walk down the
street hand in hand.
And
Elle (23:44):
you felt so free.
Tramp (23:45):
I felt so free.
And you were at that
Jay (23:46):
point and like
Tramp (23:47):
my old self.
Elle (23:48):
Yeah.
And,
Jay (23:49):
and for our listeners, if you could just see his face
right now.
Yeah.
It is just pure joy Uhhuh.
He is so happy and he has comeso far in such a short amount of
time.
We are.
Love it.
We love this guy and we are sohappy for him right now.
Elle (24:03):
Yay.
Okay.
That is not your only adventurethat you have had in the last
couple of weeks.
That has been very exciting andshall I say, stimulating.
Oh,
Tramp (24:14):
not by a long shot.
Elle (24:15):
Mm-hmm.
Jay (24:16):
Where'd you go?
What'd you do?
Tramp (24:18):
So.
One day Layla and I were talkingand we were talking about kind
of the sexy places we had been.
I said, well, I've been to bothdesires.
Elle (2) (24:29):
Mm-hmm.
Tramp (24:29):
And as we all know, they are couples only.
Elle (2) (24:34):
Right.
Tramp (24:34):
You know, you're not gonna find single males.
Or occasionally you may find theselect single female that's,
part of a, three way triad typesituation.
Right.
And she said, well, my husbandand I are members.
Would you like to go with me oneof these days?
Elle (24:54):
Uhhuh.
Tramp (24:56):
And they aren't only members, they are mansion
members at Pearl, which, ifyou've ever been to Pearl, I, I
know we recently interviewed acouple that were desire
aficionados and, and beenplenty.
So you have the standard roomsand, and the penthouses the
mansion is a completelyseparate, complex on grounds,
(25:19):
and it was unreal.
Would the word posh
Jay (25:23):
come to mind?
Tramp (25:23):
Yes.
Yes.
Elle (25:26):
Tell us a little bit about it.
Tramp (25:27):
It was, let me back up a little bit.
So we set this all up and ofcourse, I pay my own way.
I'm mm-hmm.
Elle (25:35):
I'm
Tramp (25:36):
self, you're not a kept man.
Yes.
I'm not a kept man.
And we work all this out andthis actually happened.
Just last week.
Yeah.
I know you guys have been bitingat the bit to get this
interview.
Elle (25:49):
Oh, you have no idea.
Jay (25:51):
Picked, picked him up at the airport just the other day.
And literally it's like, did youhave a good time?
Yes.
Any problems?
Not really.
Okay.
That's all we're gonna talkabout.
'cause we're saving it for thepodcast otherwise.
Right.
Because it's all gonna come out.
He's gonna tell me everything inthe car.
Then he's gonna tell leverything when he gets to our
house.
Yeah.
Elle (26:06):
Nope.
This is all fresh to us.
This Yes.
This is all
Jay (26:09):
fresh to us.
So what happened?
Tramp (26:10):
So we flew in a day earlier and it's funny when
you've been somewhere before andyou have your routines Right.
And, but you're with someone newand you just don't wanna repeat
just everything.
You wanna Yeah.
You wanna make new memories
Elle (26:28):
new.
Absolutely.
Tramp (26:29):
So.
We fly in a day early.
Okay?
The, pro tip for desire is,unless you live on the East
coast or somewhere where you geta first flight, you're paying a
lot of money.
Elle (26:42):
Wait, a a hundred percent.
Tramp (26:44):
So a lot of people, ourselves included, will fly in,
have a nice dinner, get nice andrested, and then hit desire
first thing the next morning,right?
Because
Jay (26:53):
otherwise you're at the mercy of the airlines and you're
paying for that first day.
And you could not, in itsentirety, you could not get in
until 10 11 that night
Elle (27:01):
and you've dropped a thousand bucks or whatever it
is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jay (27:05):
This is the way to do it, folks.
Mm-hmm.
This is the way.
Tramp (27:08):
We get in and one of my go-tos is there's this, cigar
bar.
Elle (2) (27:13):
Okay.
Tramp (27:14):
In the hotel zone that,, it screams vacation to me.
They make amazing mojitos andCuban cigars and you get a
little bite to eat and thatreally sets the tone for the
vacation.
And Layla, to her credit, shewas like, yeah, let's do that.
I'm not gonna partake.
I'll have a mojito or I'll havea couple drinks.
But
Jay (27:32):
you are kind of a throwback.
I could see you in a bar sittingnext to Humphrey Bogart.
You just, you just really arekind of a classic guy.
Tramp (27:41):
We just had a great time and we were able to reconnect.
Elle (27:45):
Yeah.
Important
Tramp (27:46):
and.
Start the trip off.
Right.
Good.
Elle (27:50):
Yeah.
Tramp (27:50):
So the next morning we get picked up by USA transfers,
one of their, S-U-V-V-I-P typeget ups and the quick, 20 minute
ride to desire pearl.
Mm-hmm.
And here's the biggestdifference with being a someone
who just goes and I guesssomeone with status not to sound
(28:13):
too snooty.
Okay.
Is Well, it wasn't your status.
No, I, I, yeah.
I admit they, they didn't knowtramp from he, the rest of us
down
Elle (28:21):
here.
This is how it goes.
Yeah.
Tramp (28:24):
But since Layla and her husband are, I guess you could
say frequent flyers Sure.
Because of their, membership,almost everyone knew her name
and it was the first thing thatstood out was it was almost like
a family
Elle (28:43):
Aw.
Like,
Tramp (28:43):
being welcome, welcome back.
Welcome home is what they said.
Yeah, I know.
They say that's everyone.
Elle (28:47):
Sure.
Of course.
Jay (28:48):
So you're saying they all are in love with Layla?
Not, oh my God, that woman isback.
Yes.
Elle (28:55):
That's so easy to be in love with her,
Tramp (28:56):
though.
She is wonderful.
And the whole checkin process.
She would just be stopped by,random playmakers and random
bartenders.
Wow.
You know, miss Layla, welcomeback.
Welcome home.
That's pretty awesome.
Elle (29:10):
And did they, did they look at you funny?
Like you're not
Tramp (29:13):
Yeah, you're not Mr.
Layla.
I don't know how else to put it,but.
No, I mean, she did have toexplain a couple times and that
was fine.
Yeah.
But these people are consummateprofessionals, right?
I guarantee they've seen it all.
Elle (29:30):
Oh, yeah.
Well, and in this world and inthe lifestyle, it's not
something that's necessarilylooked down upon.
It's, oh, okay.
Fun.
You brought your lover.
Jay (29:40):
Right.
And if that works for you
Elle (29:42):
Yeah.
Jay (29:42):
Good for you.
Yay.
Yeah.
Tramp (29:44):
We had some phenomenal days.
We stayed in the mansion, marblefloors and our own pool and a
butler and all these perks that,quite frankly are, quite
intoxicating in and ofthemselves.
Sure.
But we were able to operate inthat environment as a couple.
(30:05):
The good, the bad, and the ugly.
Okay.
And I admit we did have somecommunication issues to
overcome.
Okay.
But I'll get to that shortly.
But it was so much fun.
I will admit the very first daythough, since desire Pearl is
where Lady and I, that was ourfirst trip.
Right.
You know, I was wondering thatfor that, our first foray, even
(30:27):
though we were not in thelifestyle, our first foray into
that environment.
So there was a definite pang,and I'm like, oh, that happened
there and that happened there.
I think it's human, but I let itpass.
I took in that moment, I, and Ilet it go.
Elle (30:43):
You acknowledged it and let it go.
I think that was brilliant.
Jay (30:46):
Yeah.
We talked about this on the wayto the airport.
Yeah.
That, you know that it's gonnahappen.
Mm-hmm.
There'll be things that aregonna trigger your memory.
Elle (30:52):
Yeah.
Jay (30:52):
But the way to get over older, painful memories is to
create new ones.
Right.
And I think you succeeded there.
Tramp (30:58):
I did.
I'll never forget them and I'mthankful for them.
Elle (2) (31:02):
There you go.
Tramp (31:03):
But, yeah.
Making new memories with a newperson is definitely just
freeing.
Elle (31:09):
Yeah.
Lightens your heart a littlebit.
Tramp (31:11):
It does.
It does.
And the people we met and allthe fun we had, we probably
drank too much and made assesabout out of ourselves several
times.
Elle (2) (31:23):
Well, yay.
Tramp (31:23):
But it was just so fun getting back into that
environment.
Even more so than what you'dfind at the ranch, for example,
when you're on vacation,everyone is friendly.
Elle (31:35):
Yeah.
Tramp (31:35):
Unlike a vanilla resort where everyone is glued to their
phones or sticks to themselvesor their families, they're not
gonna talk to or walking
Jay (31:42):
by and you say, Hey, how you going?
And they go, why are you talkingto me?
Exactly.
Yeah.
As opposed to desire or a cruisewhere everyone's so upbeat, Hey,
we're doing great.
How are you?
Yeah.
And they mean it.
Or you can say,
Tramp (31:54):
that.
Outfit or that dress, you lookincredibly sexy.
Right.
And not have to worry about someguy wanna knock your teeth out
for paying a compliment to forsure, his lady.
It was so fulfilling to be backin that environment and enjoying
myself.
Jay (32:13):
So if I may ask, was, did you play with others
Tramp (32:18):
one night?
We did.
Okay.
And it was, so that's a bigstep.
This, it, really is.
And whether or not Layla and Iwere ready for that step kind of
remains to be seen.
Okay.
Because let, me lay it out.
We met another couple, we'regonna call them Bob and Betty.
Elle (2) (32:34):
Mm-hmm.
Tramp (32:35):
And she was a sexy blonde and he was a handsome gentleman.
And it was one of those thingswhere, we had met them during
the day.
We went to dinner, we did allthe things.
Hot tub, went dancing, got readyfor theme night, all that stuff.
Espresso martinis is mandatoryin my mind.
(32:56):
And after all of that, everyonegoes back to the hot tub or,
everyone that wants to keep theparty going.
Sure.
And Layla and I had definitelyhad a good day, just having fun
and admittedly overdoing it.
And I don't know if we wereprepared or we hadn't
communicated, but yes, we endedup playing with Bob and Betty.
Elle (2) (33:19):
Okay.
Tramp (33:20):
And I admit, I have to shift my mindset where after
coming from a partneredsituation to a single guy
situation, back to a partneredenvironment where.
I got stuck in the single guy,and I take this on the chin,
admittedly, where I was havinga, a great time with Betty, but
(33:46):
Layla unfortunately thought, andI, again, I wholeheartedly, it's
on me, thought that she wasbeing left out and not heard.
Elle (33:57):
Oh, see, it doesn't matter.
Again, it's, it's communication.
Tramp (34:00):
On the single male side, I only have to worry about my
own feelings.
It's not that I'm intentionally,I'm, I always care.
But
Elle (34:08):
you're not accountable for, to some I'm not.
Tramp (34:10):
I'm not.
I Exactly.
I'm respectful, but I'm notaccountable.
Right.
And in that s one situation,
Jay (34:15):
one of the most respectful gentlemen we know.
Oh, really?
Tramp (34:20):
But I admit that after we both had a chance to dry out
that Layla said, that reallyhurt me.
And, I didn't try to deflect.
I, you wouldn't I be because shefelt like I wasn't paying her
the proper attention, which Iwasn't, I was laser focused on
Right.
On my situation.
(34:40):
It's a straight swap.
Yeah.
E exactly.
Exactly.
But the thing is, she very wellcould have said, I'm gonna go
home today.
And you're on your own.
Elle (2) (34:51):
Yeah.
Tramp (34:52):
In the lifestyle, you have to give grace.
Okay, you may have broken ourboundaries, but I have to weigh
whether is this a deal breakeror do we communicate?
Yeah.
Is there no recovery rather,
Elle (35:06):
right.
Tramp (35:06):
Or do we actually communicate and are we stronger
on the backside because of this?
Elle (35:12):
And
Tramp (35:13):
oh, it was the ladder.
We communicated, we hung low.
We reconnected.
We reconnected.
Good.
And, we had a fantastic rest ofthe trip.
Now, here's the funniest thing,and I was dying to tell you this
in the car the other day.
Jay (35:28):
I'm all ears,
Tramp (35:30):
Bob.
And keep in mind, I'm,admittedly pretty pickled at
this point.
I see this really weird lookcome across his face and he
said, tramp, do you have apodcast?
Jay (35:46):
Oh,
Elle (35:47):
no way.
Is that your first recognition?
Tramp (35:49):
Very first.
Jay (35:50):
Oh my God.
That's hilarious.
Tramp (35:53):
And, I almost just broke into the intro, the outro.
And he said, I said, maybe why?
And he's like, you sound likethe tramp from Unapologetic
spirit.
He actually
Jay (36:04):
called you by name.
Wow.
Tramp (36:06):
And, and I, so we know they're listening to the sound.
And I had, I had to, oh my God,do we love our fans out there in
podcast?
And I had to own up on thefollowing days.
He and I had some just great,conversations and he did ask
about the two of you guys aswell, really, you know, tell,
tell me more about l and j andit's all true.
Elle (36:28):
Yeah, probably.
Tramp (36:29):
But that moment was just so surreal.
Elle (36:32):
Yeah, that's wild.
Tramp (36:34):
It is.
Elle (36:34):
Makes it seem so real.
Tramp (36:36):
Yeah, I would say that the desire trip with Layla was
nothing short of amazing,outstanding answers and memories
that, we made and that I stillhave are nothing short of
incredible and I'll value themforever.
Jay (36:54):
Outstanding.
That is, that is just perfect.
That's what you want to hear foryour friends.
Elle (36:58):
It's exactly what we wanted to see happen.
That was what we wished for you.
My heart is full right now.
Jay (37:06):
Aw.
Yes.
You're so cute.
Elle (37:10):
Well I have a little story which leads into something that
I'm going to be doing in thefuture, and Jay and I just got
back we went to a wedding inVegas and we'll probably talk
about that on another podcastour whole trip.
But on the last night that wewere there.
We had finished playing with alovely single man and had such a
(37:33):
great time with him, and I'mgetting ready for bed and I
flipped a Facebook and I'mlooking and there's a message on
Messenger.
So I opened it up and it is amessage from no follow along, my
sister-in-law, so my brother'swife, her brother, okay.
(37:54):
There is no relationship.
That is, I looked it up
Jay (37:59):
because we all know where this is going.
Elle (38:02):
And the message was very simple and it said, so do, do
dot.
Are you guys down?
And then the pineapple emoji.
And my eyes widened.
Jay (38:15):
I believe she elbowed me in the ribs'cause I was about shit
to fall asleep shit
Elle (38:21):
and read it and whereas previously, when I've gotten
that message from my sororitysister and I freaked out, I'm
like, okay, well there's onlyone reason he is asking.
He is familiar.
And so I responded withsomething like, hmm, why would
you ask a question like that?
And he made some reference tosome photos that we had posted
(38:41):
on Facebook and videos and said,I know what those kind of
parties look like.
Now the funny thing is, thewedding we were at, there was
only one other lifestyle coupleexcept for the bride and groom.
Everybody else was thereridiculously sexy friends.
And so it wasn't a lifestyleevent per se, but apparently it
gave off the vibe.
(39:01):
And so we started texting backand forth.
And he had had a girlfriend.
He's divorced and he had had agirlfriend who was in the
lifestyle, introduced him to it.
And he loves to go meet a coupleand fuck the wife and husbands
like to watch.
Which I can only imagine'causehe's very handsome.
Jay (39:19):
He is extremely handsome, extremely well built ex army,
takes really good care ofhimself and he's.
Experienced the lifestyle.
Elle (39:30):
Right.
So we started a little bit offlirting texting back and forth,
and he confessed that back whenmy brother and his sister got
married, gosh, I think it'sabout 20 years ago.
He thought I was really sexy.
Mm.
I told him I thought he wasreally sexy.
I
Jay (39:48):
mean, he's not wrong.
Luckily they were both marriedto other people at the time.
Right.
So nothing could happen.
Well, he
Elle (39:53):
wasn't married.
He was single back then.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
He was in the middle of being inthe army.
But I was married to somebodyelse, not Jay.
And we just sort of, I don'tknow, maybe admired each other
from afar.
And so this moved into, Hey, doyou have any pictures of videos?
And so I sent him some picturesand videos and then he sent me
(40:15):
some live shots of.
Fun he was having.
And that sort of developed into,Hey, would you mind if I took a
trip out to Florida and I couldvisit my friends that live there
and maybe, we can spend sometime together?
He jumped right on it.
I got a hold of Layla and herhusband and they were going to
(40:37):
secrets that weekend, and westarted making some plans for me
to go out alone for the weekend.
Jay (40:46):
Now, just going to visit Layla and her husband would be a
big deal.
Elle (40:52):
Sure.
Jay (40:53):
Because LL.
Has not embraced the whole hotwife thing.
She doesn't go on dates
Elle (40:59):
other than tramp a little,
Jay (41:00):
right?
She played, she plays with trampwithout me but this is really
big and really new.
Elle (2) (41:05):
Yeah.
Jay (41:06):
And then to take it a step further where, she's going to
hook up, spend a weekend with anold interest, shall we say?
Sure.
And play till her heart'scontent.
Elle (41:19):
Yeah.
Jay (41:20):
So, and I fully support this
Elle (41:22):
and I love it and that makes it that much more sexy
too, is that you're fullysupportive of this and, you
know, I share all the textmessages, he knows exactly
what's going on and it'ssomething new and it's something
different.
So I'm really excited to givethis a shot and hopefully I'll
have.
A few fun stories to share.
Jay (41:39):
Well, and what's really fun for me is to watching her just
blossom this little flirt she'sbecoming, because that's not her
style.
You know, there are women outthere, they miss their husband,
they pop a boob out, take aselfie thinking of you and,
that's just not Elle's style.
And here we are driving throughthe desert outside of Vegas on
the way home.
(42:00):
And he had just texted her andI'm like, take your shorts off.
She's like, what?
I go take your shorts off.
She does.
I go, get your camera, spreadyour legs, play with yourself.
Film a 22nd video.
She does it, she and she sendsit to him and she's like, my
God, I'm so wet.
And I go, yeah, that's thepoint.
(42:21):
Of course, we were drivingthrough a spotty location, so it
was, a while before heconfirmed, we had no cell
reception for like an hour.
And she's like, did you get thevideo?
Did you like it?
And he goes, oh my God, I'vealready masturbated twice to it.
And she just like, lights up,like, oh my God, look at me,
look at me.
I'm so sexy.
And I'm like, I don't think Isound like that.
(42:44):
I'm telling the story.
But the point is all parties aremutually in agreement.
He's very respectful.
He and I have talked, she isfree to play as Tramp alluded to
with his story.
If you're constantly thinkingabout your partner and looking
over there and is my partner,okay, what are they doing then?
(43:08):
Or the reverse.
You're focusing too much on theperson you're playing with.
That's not in the equation rightnow.
She's gonna go out there, she'sbeing with somebody she wants,
who wants her.
She's got a comfort level, he'sgot a comfort level.
She doesn't have to look overher shoulder, she doesn't have
to worry about me and what I'mdoing or what I'm thinking.
(43:29):
I want her to come back withthis smiling like Tramp has been
smiling this entire podcast.
Elle (43:36):
I cannot tell you what it does to the ego for someone who
I have found attractive to sendme a text saying, I have wanted
to fuck you for 20 years.
That was pretty powerful to getthose juices flowing.
Jay (43:52):
I bet.
Good for you.
And I guess we'll have tointerview her on a future
podcast.
I think we should when she getsback,
Tramp (44:00):
but I just wanna highlight with both l and j
that.
That is really a testament tothe security and the trust that
you guys have in each other.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Elle (2) (44:12):
Thanks.
Tramp (44:13):
That, Jay can say to L Hey, I want this for you.
And l being able to embrace,okay, our relationship is
paramount, but I'm so thankfulthat you allow me to express
myself.
Elle (44:29):
Well, and this kind of goes back to the night that Jay
said, I'm tired, I'm going tobed and left us to our devices.
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
That was a huge growth for me.
For you.
I mean, I think you and Laylahave helped each other in some
things, and you and I havehelped each other in some
things.
(44:49):
Oh, absolutely.
And, and that feeling okay.
That this isn't a cheatingsituation.
This is my husband.
Allowing me the freedom toexplore another man who I find
very attractive.
Elle (2) (45:03):
Mm-hmm.
Elle (45:03):
And what you've given me over the last few months has
been very special as well.
And I wanna acknowledge that.
Jay (45:11):
Thank you.
You're
Elle (45:12):
welcome.
Jay (45:12):
They're both grinning, like they're high school crushes
right now.
It's really disgusting.
So to finish up, we've got ashout out from our number one
fan in Canada.
Liz how you doing, sweetie?
And we do hope you come down sowe can show you the ranch.
She asked the question, havethere been any health or safety
(45:33):
concerns related to thelifestyle and how did you deal
with it?
Elle (45:38):
Well, the only health concern that I've ever had, Jay
and I get tested quarterly.
I, we just started with newdoctors a year ago.
Mm-hmm.
It was that awkward conversationwith this somewhat short, older,
although he's probably my ageItalian guy.
And to explain that I'm in thelifestyle and, I swear the man
(46:00):
was blushing.
I'm like, you're a doctor.
But anyway but telling him, no,this is important.
Safe sex.
Get tested regularly, try to bewith people who get tested
regularly.
And there have been severaltimes, and it's not my fault,
it's the fault of the testingwhere I would get a false
(46:22):
positive on an HIV.
Now, the first time thathappened, it freaked me out.
I was in Maui.
Jay had sent me to Maui to visitsome friends, and we were on a
hike.
I'm at the top of this mountainand I look up to see my test
results and I.
Couldn't breathe the entire timeI walked down not knowing that
(46:43):
what they normally do, if itcomes across as positive, is
that they'll do a second test,they'll run a second test.
Maybe there wasn't enough sothey run it again.
And my doctor called, and he'slike, I'm really concerned.
I just wanna make sure we'regonna run it again.
And then this happened a secondtime, and then it happened I
think a third time now.
And so I'm less stressed when ithappens.
(47:06):
I'm still a little anxietybecause that's a concern.
Jay (47:09):
But we have a friend who had the same thing happen.
Elle (47:13):
Yes.
Jay (47:13):
And immediately reached out and started activating her
lifestyle phone tree to leteveryone know.
Please don't do that.
If it's this thing which hassuch a high rate of false
positives, please at least giveit 24 hours.
Yeah.
Or till, you know for surethey'll run it again right away.
Otherwise you just freak outeverybody.
Elle (2) (47:34):
Yeah.
And
Jay (47:35):
we're all on pins and needles for an entire weekend
waiting to find out that it,everything's okay.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
Elle (47:41):
And that's the same for chlamydia or syphilis or any of
those.
If something comes across, takea breath, wait for them to run
another test or take anothertest.
So sometimes you gotta go backdown and give another sample.
But, is just to be on top of itand be aware
Jay (47:56):
and please abstain from sex until you Well, of
Tramp (47:59):
course.
Yeah.
Okay.
I would say my take is, we'veall had those situations where,
the stars align and everythingis right.
And you may play with a couplewithout protection.
Elle (2) (48:15):
Mm-hmm.
Tramp (48:16):
It could be under the influence or whatever reason,
regardless if that's within yourrules or not.
Mm-hmm.
You need to do the right thing.
Number one, having thatconversation.
So if you listen to one of theold episodes with the
Brazilians, that was one ofthose situations where after the
(48:37):
fact we had the adultconversation and we're like,
okay, that got away from us.
It was fun, but we need to nowtake the proper precautions
until everything comes backnegative.
Elle (48:50):
Correct.
Jay (48:51):
Sounds good.
Tramp (48:52):
Yeah.
So it's, taking responsibilityfor your own actions.
Elle (48:55):
Yes.
And that means not having sexwith other people.
That's true.
Until you know you're in theclear.
Correct.
'cause no one wants to.
Do that to somebody else, andyou don't wanna feel responsible
for that.
Mm-hmm.
I would feel horrid.
I would too.
Absolutely.
You know, I would feel bad.
It happened to me too.
But if it does, then happen, youabsolutely need to tell them,
(49:16):
and you have to abstain from sexuntil then.
Tramp (49:21):
Well, guys, this has been a fantastic hi, fantastic
episode.
Elle (49:26):
It's the episode we've been waiting for,
Tramp (49:29):
so you guys can definitely look forward to more
sexy stories from the Tramp.
I know I've been fairly dry.
We,
Elle (49:36):
Wanted to keep it just outta respect for what he was
going through.
Just kind of keep it, let'sinterview other people.
Let's talk about things that aresomewhat generic and it had to
happen and that's okay.
Tramp (49:48):
No, very true, very true.
But guys, we're just so thankfulthat you have chosen to come on
this journey with us.
If you'd like to reach out to uswith an a MA or just, an email
to say hi, we can be reached atunapologetic swingers@gmail.com.
Our website is also unapologeticswingers.com, and the biggest
(50:09):
ask that we have is wherever youhappen to be listening to us,
just leave us a rating orreview.
That would mean the world to us.
Elle (50:18):
Yeah.
That bumps us up a little bit.
We wanna be heard by morepeople.
We wanna be recognized in themiddle of nowhere.
I, well, maybe not in Walmart,but I don't know that
Jay (50:26):
I do, but okay.
Thank you for speaking for bothof us.
Elle (50:30):
Oh, I think that'd be so cool.
Until next time, I'm Al
Tramp (50:35):
and I'm the tramp.
Elle (50:36):
Be sexy,
Tramp (50:37):
be confident.
Elle (50:38):
Be unapologetic.
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