Modern Dating: When Boss Energy Meets Traditional Values Ft. Haley - Ep.110

Special thanks to Haley for being a part of this episode of Unattainable Podcast Show 

A spirited exploration of modern dating dynamics featuring guest Haley Reiner delves into relationship expectations, power dynamics, and the evolving nature of attraction.

• Haley describes her ideal partner as ambitious and action-oriented, valuing communication and emotional maturity
• Discussion of "micro-cheating" and what constitutes relationship boundaries in the digital age
• Exploration of the "hot guy phase" and how women's preferences evolve to value intelligence and stability over physical appearance
• Debate about women's value in relationships and the problematic question of "what do you bring to the table"
• Conversation about dating timelines, particularly how long to wait before physical intimacy (from 3 dates to 3 months)
• Analysis of modern relationship power dynamics between masculine and feminine energies
• Examination of how financial dynamics influence relationship expectations and behaviors

Follow Haley on Instagram @haleygreiner.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I like a man that's action-oriented and ambitious.
If you're going to act single,then you should not be with a
person.
You should just be by yourselfand figure things out by
yourself.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
I have a lot of female friends.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
And I'm not just gonna dump my female friends and
like block them all onInstagram because I'm dating a
new girl.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Someone receiving nudes from someone I have met.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Intelligences have become increasingly important to
me over the last few years.
Girls go through hot guy phaseand eventually they kind of get
bored.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
If she knows how to play the game and she's
receiving something and benefitsoff of it and he's also
benefiting from it.
I mean, then what's wrong withthat?
I don't deal with immaturitylike that from other people.
I'm at a place now where I justdon't want that around me.
I recognize, like, how valuablemy attention and my
concentration and my focus is inmy life and anyone who is not

(00:52):
walking along those lines likeit's not that I don't value you,
it's just like you don't have aplace around me right now.
If a man ever asked me what Ibrought to the table, I would be
bringing another man to thetable who would never ask me
that question.
The time and attention that weput into the way that we look is
a currency and a value for menin themselves.
You guys use us as currencywith other men.

(01:14):
Men use women all the time toget to that next level in life.
You guys think like I don'tunderstand why you're keeping
score, like only a man whodoesn't't understand why you're
keeping score.
Like only a man who doesn'tknow his own value is keeping
score.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Welcome to Unattainable.
Glad to have you with us.
I'm your host, zach Evans, andfirst of all, thank you to all
of our listeners.
We've been getting a ton ofengagement over the last few
weeks and we got to thank all ofyou guys for that.
Today we got a special guest onthe show.
This is Haley Haley.
Why don't you go ahead andintroduce yourself to the
audience Name, where you're fromand your star sign?

Speaker 1 (01:52):
My name is Haley Reiner.
I am originally from Indianaand I am a Virgo.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Virgo I've had a few intimate experience with virgos
and they never end well oh, butI'm sure they were next level
they were.
They were fun, but uh, bad formy mental health, I think that's
the best way to put it Ibelieve virgos have high
standards, so maybe you justdidn't live up to them.
Maybe do you have you foundyourself in toxic relationships

(02:21):
moving to la at all?

Speaker 1 (02:25):
I could say a relation, maybe a few, just a
few, maybe a few by the way, Idon't judge.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
I used to be a who hasn't?

Speaker 1 (02:34):
who hasn't that hasn't lived here?
I'd like to know, I'd like topersonally meet them I was very
toxic back in my villain era.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Um I'm a recovering fuckboy now.
I'm very shy and romantic, butwhat was your villain?
Arc my well, I started off asthe nice little sweet.
My parents were religious, verynice and just friend zoned.
And no, we love nice guys, butjust not you.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
But actually I want to date your fuckboy friends got
so sick of it, became acomplete asshole, sociopath,
narcissist, but, but like aprofessional fuck boy not like
the, the amateurs you seenowadays with their you know
tiktok hair and their littlebird scooters and so it's the
same story of a boy who later on, like, is 27, 28 years old and

(03:18):
still holding on from aheartbreak from 12 years old
well, yeah, I mean 20 years old,but yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
But now I've matured from that.
Now I'm very shy and romantic.
Yeah, but back in my village Ichanged.
Yeah, of course, it's my wholevillain arc what a
transformation.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
I'm proud of you thank you, thank you.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Um.
Yeah, I don't understand howyou guys fall for dudes nowadays
that have like you guys fallfor dudes that have like a bed
that touches like two walls uh,that's not me.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Please, I do not claim me as a part of that
lifestyle.
I am not a dusty I'm not adusty lover.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
What's your type?
Let's do.
Let's do looks first, let's dophysical okay, well, physical
looks.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
I can't tell you that .
I'll let you know when I see it, but I will tell you I like a
man that's action oriented andambitious.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Sounded like it was like a job interview.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
No Action oriented, no, just like if you need to
mean what you say.
So, there has to be actionbehind what you say for me to
give you respect.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Do you because you come across like you might be
the alpha in relationships oryou like to take control?

Speaker 1 (04:30):
That's actually not true.
That's really that's not true.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
Do people tell you that or no?

Speaker 1 (04:35):
I think I come across as intimidating, but I think
that weeds a lot of people awaythat shouldn't be in that arena
to begin with.
So I think it helps me morethan anything.
But no, when it comes torelationships, I know what it
takes to be in a successfulrelationship, and I've been in
one before.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
So and what does it take to be in a successful
relationship?

Speaker 1 (04:57):
um comprehension, communication um and a certain
level of love and trust, ofcourse.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
So then, do you typically go for a guy who's
like very masculine, because hekind of makes you feel in your
feminine energy, or becauseyou're kind of intimidating?
Do you go for more the prettyboy and you kind of run the show
?

Speaker 1 (05:18):
I think it's a mistake to go for the pretty boy
Interesting.
It's a mistake to go for thepretty boy.
Usually the pretty boys are toocaught up in the Peter Pan role
, so but who's to say?
Because I mean I've also givenless attractive men a chance as
well, and then they turn out toact the same way.
So I don't know.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Interesting.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
But no, I wouldn't say I claim a particular role or
I expect a man to act aparticular way.
I just know what I like andwhat I see.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
So you kind of, once you see it, you know it
Interesting.
So let me ask you this when yousaid you've given the guys a
chance, maybe they're kind ofugly and then they turn out to
be toxic or a fuckboy orwhatever fucking around anyway.
When you date a guy like that,do you know kind of from the
beginning, like, oh I can, Iknow this guy's bad news, but

(06:12):
just something about him I'mjust attracted to viscerally and
I like the excitement and thedanger and the just the, the
roller coaster of it.
Or you just like I had no ideaI got blindsided out of nowhere,
I don't know what happened.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
I think that when you have this, when you have a
certain experience or a rush ofemotions, it can definitely
override your intelligence, andso you see certain things from
the beginning, but you're likeyou you want to mentally hope.
That's not true that thosethings aren't true.
So sometimes you will give themthe benefit of the doubt, which
I don don't suggest.
Don't do.
It Always works against you.

(06:46):
I don't do that anymore forthat reason, but yes.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
I see, I see.
And so last toxic relationshipyou were in.
What about it.
How did you?
Guys meet.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
Oh, at an outing I was with a group of friends and
this person just happened to bethere and we looked at each
other, started speaking to eachother and it kind of just led on
from there.
No, Tinder Good for you no itwas not on a dating app.
Nope, no dating app.
Good for you.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
And then.
So what happened with thatrelationship?
When did you kind of noseturning bad?

Speaker 1 (07:31):
I would not.
As a person that regardsthemselves with a lot of
character, I don't want todestroy this person's character,
but I will say if you're goingto act single, then you should
not be with a person.
You should just be by yourselfand figure things out by
yourself until you feel like youare at a place where you no

(07:54):
longer need validation or needto act out Like as a man.
When you're ready to be withsomeone, you're no longer
interested in those things suchas getting validation from other
women seeking that out onpurpose or being in a
relationship with someone.
You're truly not interested inknowing that they're a
placeholder I see you don'tengage in behavior like that so,

(08:14):
or like any sort of infidelityor any kind of micro cheating or
anything like that microcheating.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, there's like.
Micro cheating sounds like amade-up word, that girls are
trick to trick guys.
No, no, no, no, no.
Micro cheating.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
There's such thing as that, like, let's say, you're
engaging in a behavior thattechnically is cheating, but you
just haven't done that physicalact yet.
Like sexting you're sayingCorrect In a way.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, there's a.
That's a very gray area thingbecause, like I've been accused
of well, I think they called itemotional cheating, they didn't
call it micro cheating but maybeso many.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
I think it's just.
It's so many words for the sameconcept but.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
But where's the line between?
Okay, I have a lot of femalefriends okay and I'm not just
gonna dump my female friends andlike block them all on
instagram because I'm dating anew girl no, I don't.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
I believe you should not do that either.
I don't, I don.
I think you should be with aperson who's understanding of
that and comes from a place ofmental maturity and emotional
maturity and can handle that.
If they can't and that's,that's a value of yours, that in
a boundary of yours that youneed to stand strong on you
shouldn't be with a woman whocan't accept that, because you
already know it's going to donothing but cause problems for
you.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
But then you also said you don't like, when do
guys do micro cheating?

Speaker 1 (09:23):
yeah, I don't like when they, when you're with
someone, you're in a committedrelationship, like, let's say,
there's a difference with whatI'm talking about.
Is someone receiving nudes fromsomeone I have met?
From another woman I have metyeah, yeah, yeah and this person
was just with us a couple hoursprior I so, yes, that's what
I'm.
That's what I'm talking aboutokay that that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, Interesting.
So in terms of your typepersonality-wise.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Oh, sense of humor is a must.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
Okay, yes, Someone makes you laugh.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
Well, I'm kind of a sapiosexual and I don't know if
you've ever heard of that termbefore I get confused pansexual,
sapiosexual and nobody bettercome for me, because some people
might think that that's made up, but I don't.
It means you're more attractedto intelligence per se than
someone's physical looks.
I mean, of course, the lookshave to be there.
They just have to be, because Ijust wouldn't enjoy having to

(10:22):
turn the lights off every singletime.
Yeah, that's a big deal to me.
A person needs to beknowledgeable and well-rounded
and emotionally mature, have ahigh EQ.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
It's interesting Intelligence has become
increasingly important to meover the last few years, whereas
in my 20s I was just who cares?
If they're hot, okay, whatever,and now it's like I just get
bored if they're not.
And, by the way way, I don'tmean intelligence like you went
to college, like you read a lotof books, I mean like
intelligence like you enjoytalking about social issues and

(10:54):
and psychology, the way waypeople are, stuff like that.
I just I just don't rememberwhat I talked about back in my
like fuck boy days, when I wasjust like what I told for four
hours on this fucking date andI'm just Like want to blow my
brain out just so I can like tryto get sex at the end.
You know, I Can't imaginesuffering through that very
difficult in doing it withmultiple women and rotating

(11:15):
between them, my life was veryhard yeah there's a lot of
keeping up with who'sgaslighting, and for this you
know all the lies.
It's very difficult being agood fuck boy.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Think that it's easy it's a lot of hard work, it's a
lot of juggling, it's a lot, alot of lies to keep up with and
memorize I mean my mom.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
When I was little.
I remember she told me, zach,you know, I don't care what you
want to be in life, I just wantyou to give it your all.
It's like when I was a fuck boy.
I wanted to be the best fuckboy I could be.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
I didn't want to be like a you know, low tier fuck
boy I feel like there should bea silent tear rolling down my
face right now I know it's verysad.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
My life is very difficult.
How old are you?

Speaker 1 (11:55):
you're very confusing oh, I knew that this question
was coming um.
First of all, you should neverask that question to a woman.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
But well you, you seem like you're like mid-30s,
but then you look like you'relike 22.
I don't know whether to talkabout investing I am not mid-30s
doing molly at disneyland likeit could go either way.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
I am not mid-30s, I can tell you that right now okay
, please are you 22?
No, I'm not I'm older.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Okay, keep it vague.
What's the oldest and youngestyou've dated in relation to your
age?

Speaker 1 (12:28):
oh, why is this information important?
Because it's fun.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
It's a.
It's a fun podcast.
What do you?

Speaker 1 (12:37):
mean okay, okay, okay , okay, you don't have to answer
if it's.
If it's okay embarrassing um Iplead the fifth on.
I'll tell you the youngest one,I'm not telling you the oldest
one.
I plead the fifth, um, but theyoungest I would say is what
can't be that much younger thanme?

(12:58):
20, like as my age right now.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, like in relation to your age.
What like have you like?
How many years younger than me?

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Probably four.
Okay, like I haven't datedanyone that's significantly
younger than me, that would besuspicious.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
No, interesting, it's interesting.
So I'm surprised that you seemto be embarrassed about having
dated an older guy.
Which surprises me because whenI had my company in the
modeling industry, right, we hadthis thing called hot guy phase
, where the new models in theagencies 18, 19, 20, they'd
always be dating some young hotguy and TikTok, hair dangly,

(13:38):
earring, like we call them theclones, because literally
they're just clones, like wecouldn't tell oh, is this your
girlfriend or boyfriend or his?

Speaker 1 (13:44):
So they all look the same, they're just clones like
we couldn't tell oh, is thisyour girlfriend or boyfriend or
his.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
So they all look the same, they're all just like
clones of each other.
But the most beautiful girls inthe agency by the time they're
even like 21, 22, 23 you'dalways be dating some normal
looking dude like like maybe dadbod, you know, if you put on
like a brown shirt and likedropped off your ups package
like, you wouldn't be surprised.
But it would always be a guywho's extremely successful or

(14:08):
ambitious, established andalmost always 10, 15 years older
, just because that's usuallywhat it takes to become
established as a guy.
And my friends from wisconsinwould always be surprised, like
why are these like this girl'sdating this guy like so
surprised?
And I'm like, yeah, you don'tunderstand.
Girls go through hot guy phaseand eventually they kind of get

(14:28):
bored.
It's like, oh, it's another hotguy yep and then they want
someone with intelligence andsomeone who is interesting and
engaging and everything elseyeah, that's absolutely correct.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
You just get tired of the same thing.
It's it's the same routine andit's funny because sometimes
when you go on dates with men,they will use the same.
You know that they talk to eachother about things because
they'll use the same tactics orsame techniques, and it's like
do you not think that we talk toeach other like, as women, we
talk about you and the thingsthat you say and you do?
And, yes, we do come to a pointwhere it's just like we're over

(15:02):
this.
We're ready for someone who'sactually ready for us and ready
to receive us and treat us theway we deserve to be treated and
is also ready to be treated asa man.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
I disagree with the first part of that statement.
What.
That.
Oh, we all girls know what theguys do.
We know your strategies.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
A lot of us do.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
But even if you know like okay, I have a friend right
.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
And every time he talks to a girl it's like very
like braggy and very like namedroppy in a way.
That's like I like cringe at itand remember when I first met
him, I'm like cringing.
I would see the girls half thetime.
The girls are cringing.
Sometimes the girls will evensay to me later like oh man,
your friends cringe.
And then a week later I willsee this girl hanging out with

(15:48):
him on some yacht or somewherever mansion party or
whatever.
And I'm like sometimes I thinkgirls know what's happening and
it still works.
It's like it's they know whatyou're doing, but they don't
care.
It's still.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
It's like the psychology of it, for whatever
reason, like still works yeah, Imean, if there's benefits that
come to that, that come with him, it's going to be a lot harder
to walk away.
If she knows how to play thegame and she's receiving
something and benefits off of itand he's also benefiting from
it.
I mean, then what's wrong withthat, you know?

Speaker 2 (16:21):
oh, I don't think there's anything wrong with it,
I'm just saying it works youknow, yeah, I mean, obviously it
works like girls always tell methey're like zach girls don't
like when guys play games.
I'm like.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
I tell you 100 girls love when guys play games,
because when I was a nice guyand didn't play games.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
I got no pussy.
And then I started playinggames and girls magically like
me, for no reason.
Okay, I'm the same person.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
I'm so glad that you brought that up because, um, a
friend of mine, we werediscussing this the other day
how boring it is.
At a certain age you realize,like a lot of people don't want
to have to work for it.
You know, like a relationshipand it takes that, takes all the
fun out of it.
Like love is a dance and a song, you know what I mean.
Mean Like it should be a game.

(17:04):
That way You're taking all thefun out of it and if you want to
be boring, like go somewhereelse.
You know what I mean.
Like there's plenty otherpeople that are available for
that.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
But I'm just telling you that are boring too.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yes, that are boring, just like that, but to me
you're taking all the fun out ofit.
You're taking all of the catand mouse game out of it, and
what's left?
Do you play games when you date?
I would say I like subtle tests, you know, like, for instance?

(17:36):
I shouldn't say it, though,because what if there's women
out?

Speaker 2 (17:38):
there that use it, and then the men will know.
I'll tell you one of my secrets, okay.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
Okay, okay, you go first.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
So I only get girls flowers.
for one reason though Okay, andit's a subtle life hack to
figure out if they're hooking upwith other guys.
I use it as a proxy.
So what I'll do?
Let's say I'm seeing a girlfive, six dates.
We're not exclusive, whatever.
I'm just trying to see where Istand.
Is she hooking up with otherpeople?

(18:06):
I'll go to a flower deliverysite, I'll send her some flowers
, but instead of my name on thetag I'll just put a smiley face.
And so the next day, if shecalls me thank you so much for
the flowers.
Okay, she's only seeing me, butif she doesn't call me, it
means she doesn't know which oneof her guys gave her the
flowers.
Wow, and now I know okay, she'shooking up with other dudes fair
game.
But I'm gonna hook up withother chicks.
Now it is what?

Speaker 1 (18:24):
okay, she's hooking up with other dudes Fair game
but I'm going to hook up withother chicks now.
It is what it is.
That's pretty clever, that'spretty clever, very smart.
Yeah, even my mom said I wouldsay a different tactic, for this
is irrelevant to like figuringout if a person is talking to
multiple or is juggling multiple.
But I will test a man in a waylike, let's say, if I like have

(18:47):
suspicions that you might bepossibly violent or aggressive,
like I will stand you up, likeon a date at a certain point
because I want to see how sorry,I want to see how well you are
able to manage conflict and howyou treat a person like that
after something doesn't go, yourway.
You know what I mean.
It's not to be cruel, it's justlike.
If I sense that from you.

(19:07):
I really want to know if youare that way.
And usually I would say eighttimes out of ten that person
becomes aggressive after beingstood up and it's just like.
And it's not like I said, it'snot to be cruel, it's for my own
self-preservation,self-protection.
Because if I, it's for my ownself-preservation,
self-protection, um, because ifI sense it from the beginning

(19:28):
then I definitely.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
I want to know so, and I am not the only woman that
does that, by the way.
Super toxic that is, I am notthe only so you intentionally,
I'm not the only leave him atthe restaurant by himself to
have this experience.
He drove all the way there.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
He made the reservation just to, just to
sorry, but I mean, if I didn'thave suspicions that he wasn't
aggressive from the beginningand I, you can't tell them that
either, because then you'll justmorph into a different
character but you don't feellike that sets up the
relationship on some basis oflike a lie and some basis of
like no, because there have beentimes where there's just been

(20:01):
multiple times where it'shappened and the man has been so
kind and understanding about itand has not really been angry,
but you told him oh, I was doingthis to test you no okay, so
they they didn't make it thatfar and then what would you say?
then you'd say, oh, I wouldeventually tell them.
I would eventually tell themyes I would be fucking livid if
a girl why would you be mad if Iwas letting you know that I had

(20:25):
concerns, or I was worried formy own safety that you would
potentially harm me at somepoint If you were showing me
some sort of aggressive behaviorahead of time?
You?

Speaker 2 (20:33):
know what I mean?
I just don't, because then itfeels like you're, like I'm an
idiot and you're just likeplaying with your little puppet
master over here.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
No, I'm setting myself up to look so bad.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
No, I would have boundaries hard on that there's
no way I would let a girl dothat shit to me.
That would be an instant dealbreaker.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
Well, there are people out here that are doing
that.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
I believe it I believe it.
Yeah, I mean that's the thingis, la girls are so flaky anyway
that you just deal with thatanyway.
But usually I would just Iwon't get really mad, I just
kind of okay well but.
But here's the thing, too, likehere's where you could be
setting yourself up for failure.
So I've like buckets that Iwould put girls in right like

(21:16):
categories yeah.
So like, for example, um, onegirl one time on her first date
we're supposed to hang out,reconfirm the morning of yeah,
I'm good to go.
Then like an hour before, oh,you're gonna kill me, I'm sorry,
xyz happened, I can't make itright.
And then my friend sees her outat like some club or whatever.
So anyway, now in my mind, likeI'm very like smart with what I

(21:41):
do, right so I so.
I'm not going to say, oh, fuckyou, what the fuck you fucked me
over.
I'm going to say, okay, now I'mputting you in the category of
we're using each other.
You're trying to use me forsomething.
Okay, now I don't fuck with youon a human level because you're
the type of person who's tryingto manipulate me.
So, okay, like, I'm going totry to bang you and I'm never
going to have a relationship,but I'm just gonna like, do

(22:01):
every game in the book, cause Idon't give a fuck because you're
playing games with me.
I'm playing games with you,whereas if somebody is just
genuine from the beginning, thenI'm like, okay, well, let's, I
fuck with you now.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
So is that where your narcissist villain arc comes
out, right there?

Speaker 2 (22:16):
I suppose, although in that circumstance I would
still do that, even though I'mnot in that phase of my life
right now, I've kind of maturedpast like the fuckboy stage.
But if a girl did do that to me, yeah, then in my opinion she
brought it on herself.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
But why not just like get rid of her?
Yeah, I mean I could, Because Imean don't you think on some
level you already you're mad andyou don't like her now.
Now it's like kind of like youhate her in a way, but you won't
admit it.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
It's not that I hate her, though.
I'm just because, like, look,I'm from Wisconsin, right Okay.
When I first moved to LA, I wasso fucking pissed Because
people in Wisconsin they don'tflake Like your word means
something.
You commit, you fucking do it.
That's how it is right youfucking do it.
That's how it is right.
And I would get so pissed whengirls would oh, I'm down, the

(23:08):
day before I'm down, I'm down,and then flake even, just like
coming to a party or whatever,not even a date, right so now.
But then after a couple yearsof that I'm like, okay, I don't
really get mad anymore.
I'm just like this is the game.
I'm just gonna beat you at thegame because I'm better at the
game than you know what I mean.
It's like okay, like it is whatit is like.
And so I always, because Idon't want to become jaded, I
always give people the benefitof the doubt.

(23:28):
But the second I feel, allright, you're playing the la
game with me, cool chess, movepawn to e4.
I'm going to destroy youbecause I'm better at chess than
you.
Let's fucking go.
You know what I mean.
Like let's fucking go is whatit is.
I don't make the rules, youknow.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
And how many times do you win?

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Every time.
What do you mean?
I always win.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
You win every time, of course, I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
Most of the time, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
No, I mean, it's ruthless out here.
It's ruthless out here nowadays.
I can't say that I'm much of aflaker.
I, if anything, I would say I'mvery brutal, like if I see even
one thing that's gone.
No, and I understand that,because I I do think like and

(24:17):
when men do it to me, respectlike I probably deserved it in
some way, shape or form, and I,you know I don't take it out on
myself, I'm just like, if thathappened, can't do anything
about it, move forward.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
It is, it's just every.
I think la is like playing thevideo game on hard mode for data
.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
It doesn't have to be that way and that's like.
What's so sad is that itdoesn't have to be shallow like.
There's so many times whereI've either been approached on
the street or approached whenI'm out and I'm being asked for
my number or my social media andI'll say no, and then this
multiple times this has happenedto me where the man is appalled
that they're being told no.
I've never had someone tell meno like that before.

(24:56):
Well, why can't I just haveyour social media?
No, why do I need to give it toyou?
I don't even know you and I'mnot even interested in you.
Do?

Speaker 2 (25:04):
I need to give it to you.
I don't even know you and I'mnot even interested in you.
Yeah, I never understood thisconcept until the first actual
like beautiful girl that I didin LA, and before that, you know
, I'm from Wisconsin, I'm likehot girl in LA.
Oh, your life is so easy Freetrips, free dinners, tulum, all
these things Right.
And then when I started datingthis girl, I realized like okay,
yes, you have some advantages,but also every opportunity comes

(25:28):
with some kind of invisiblestrings attached.
Every girl that you know, youdon't know if she's really your
friend or if she's secretlyjealous behind your back.
Every guy you know, you don'tknow if he secretly just wants
to fuck you.
If you reject him, he's goingto get butthurt and angry and
talk shit behind your back andit's very difficult to navigate
that, I think is it for you,it's not for me well, I'm not a

(25:51):
girl, so I don't deal withpeople that act that way or are
along those like I don't dealwith.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
I don't want to even say drama like that.
I don't deal with immaturitylike that from other people.
Like I'm at a place now where Ijust don't want that around me.
I recognize, like how valuablemy attention and my
concentration and my focuses andmy life and anyone who is not
walking along those lines likeit's not that I don't value you,
it's just like you don't have aplace around me right now.

(26:22):
Like I know what I'm focused onand I don't have a place around
me right now like I know whatI'm focused on and I don't.
I don't have a place for thatright now.
What are you focused on rightnow?
Um myself and you know, likejust that next level, success,
the next level you got theblazer and everything.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
What that means for me.
Yes, my friends told me, likeyou can't trust white girls and
blazers, white girls and blazers.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Why not?
What in blazers?
Why not?
What's the?

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Because they will me too, yo ass faster than they can
post you on LinkedIn.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
That is such a lie.
That is not true.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
I don't know who told you that.
That's what he told me, thatperson sounds paranoid.
You do look like you'd have alot of LinkedIn followers and a
great credit score.
It's not a bad thing it's nothey, those are wonderful things
actually, so when you're datinga guy you seem like you have

(27:12):
like pretty high standards,you're like yes, yeah, so what
do you bring to the table?

Speaker 1 (27:31):
to match would be bringing another man to the
table who would never ask methat question.
Okay, I would get rid of youand bring another man to the
table who's never going to askme that question.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
I'm confused.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
I'm confused you don't ask a woman what she
brings to the table.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
table who's never gonna ask me that question.
So you don't ask a woman whatshe brings to the table, but you
don't think, okay, you're havethese expectations.
This guy has to be this, this,this.
He can't be talking, can't dothis, can't do this.
Why?

Speaker 1 (27:50):
would you already be assuming that a woman doesn't
inherently know her own valueand doesn't know like what?

Speaker 2 (27:57):
her where do you think your value comes from?
What do you mean like, okay,like if you cause.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
I hear girls say all the time like I know my worth, I
know my value, something likethat, and I'm like yes, our time
, energy and men, even the waythat women are very aware that,
just by our energy, our presenceand the way that we look, we
carry ourselves and the time andattention that we put into the
way that we look, is a currencyand a value for men and

(28:24):
themselves.
You guys use us as currencywith other men and we are well
aware of that.
It gains you more status.
And men use women all the timeto um get to that next level in
life by using a woman for herlooks, for her achievements.
You know what I'm saying.

(28:45):
Like look at just what happenedwith Simone Biles and her
husband.
That was so embarrassing, youknow.
And like I have nothing else tocomment on.
I'm not a part of theirmarriage, I have no business
like saying anything about it,but it's just like you know that
was just embarrassing.
It was embarrassing.
It was so hard to swallow andwatch a woman accept that type

(29:06):
of behavior from her husband.
You know, I just wouldn't.
I wouldn't want to be with aman who wouldn't honor me
publicly, you know.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
But it sounds like you're saying, okay, the guy,
for him to be valuable, he hasto have all these things, this
big checklist, blah, blah, blah,which is cool, you have high
standards, okay.
But then it sounds like you'resaying, oh, oh, but what I bring
to the table is being hot andshowing up no, no, no, no my
presence, my presence.
Like what do you mean?
Your presence?
I don't understand why.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
It's always a running checklist, though, with men of
like you guys think like I don'tunderstand why you're keeping
score like only a man whodoesn't know his own value is
keeping score of what a womancould do for him.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
But don't you think a relationship should be balanced
?

Speaker 1 (29:45):
Because I know what I do Like, I know what my
day-to-day looks like, I knowhow much I invest in myself.
So why would we even sit on adate if you're not even aware of
that already to begin with?

Speaker 3 (29:59):
You know what I mean, because a date is to figure it
out.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
I shouldn't have to prove that to you.
If I have to prove that to you,then maybe you want a man
because you're acting like awoman.
I shouldn't have to prove whatI am to you as a man.
You should be wanting to provethose things to me as to why you
want to be a part of my world,like my world is already
fulfilled, my world is alreadygood, my world is already happy.
I know how I can add on toanother person's life.

(30:22):
You know how I can add on toanother person's life.
You know what I mean.
I know the enjoyment and thefulfillment I can bring to
another person's life.
You know I know the creation Ican bring to another person's
life.
You know I'm well aware ofthose things.
I've done that work, you know.
So it's not missing.
I'm not missing those things.

(30:46):
I'm not missed on them, but I'msaying, saying yes, um, social
currency is a thing, yourphysical currency is a thing
like it's huge respect, like ifyou were to walk into a bar and
you were to see a woman who isfit, you would prefer a fit
woman over someone who, or youwould respect someone who had,
um, a higher body image.
Let's say like they worked outon their body a lot more,
because that shows strength,that shows dedication, correct
yes, yeah yes, that's what I'msaying.
So it's just like it is a socialcurrency, like the looks and

(31:08):
everything like that, like women.
If I asked you to do my makeupright now, could you do my
makeup?

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Of course not.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Exactly so.
Don't you think that takesskill?
There's so many things that areoverlooked in a woman's world
where I think, men, I would loveto see them be more curious
about it and, like do look moreinto it and actually understand
not only how much we have to payfor our lifestyle alone, on our
own, but how much time we putinto it as well to take care of

(31:37):
ourselves.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
It just it seems to be, there's this attitude that
has been spreading that has justbeen like you think it's
entitlement.
I do think it's entitlement, tobe honest with you.
Yes, it does sound likeentitlement, which, like to me,
it's like okay, I call it, youcan be the princess or the queen
, right, it's like okay, you caneither say I'm the queen, I'm

(32:04):
the bad bitch, like I run shit,I've like this strong
personality, okay.
But then are you also going towant him to pay for things and
him to fulfill the man role anddo all these things for you, but
also you get to be the boss andthe alpha and like all these
cool things, which I'm like okay, if a girl wants to split
everything and then we can bothbe the alpha, okay, cool.

(32:24):
Or if a girl can be veryfeminine and have that energy
and be like okay, like I'mfulfilling the female role,
you're fulfilling the male role.
That's balanced too to me, butit bothers me when I shouldn't
say it bothers me, but it's.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
I don't like to date.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Girls, for example, where it's like they want to
have the boss bitch attitude,but then they're like.
Girls, for example, where it'slike they want to have the boss
bitch attitude, but then they'relike oh yeah, but like also pay
for everything and do all thesethings, but also I'm the
fucking boss.
You know what I mean, so thatmakes sense yes, so it sounds to
me like you do.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
You prefer a, a more submissive woman like you?
For sure you are not in favorof dominant women 100 and that
is totally in your favor.
Like you are allowed to havethat opinion.
You know you just don't likedominant women.
The only thing I have to say isI want to.
There's, there are.
You have to be realisticsometimes about certain
expectations.

(33:14):
For instance, like as a woman,you can't be expecting a man who
is very wealthy, verysuccessful, and like you dress
like a bum, um, all the time.
You come across like you'revery meek and like you dress
like a bum, um, all the time youcome across like you're very
meek and like you don't know howto interact with other people,
you're not warm, you're notcharming.
Like you can't expect adifferent level of reciprocity
than what you're not even atright now.

(33:35):
That it doesn't mix, you know,like water and oil don't mix, so
it's just not going to happen.
You're not at the same level.
If that makes sense, so it'sjust like it to happen.
You're not at the same level, ifthat makes sense, so it's just
like it's about meeting at theright expectations.
Like I don't withhold, likewhat would I say?
I know what I can do for myself.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
What do you mean for yourself?
What can you do for the guy?

Speaker 1 (33:58):
Like so that's what I mean.
Like we just had Valentine'sDay, right?
Okay, and think about how manytimes a year the average man
spends time thinking aboutgetting his wife or girlfriend a
card or flowers the wholeentire year besides Valentine's
Day.
How often do you see thathappen?

Speaker 2 (34:14):
Yeah, not very often.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
Not very often, but yet how much are they?
They cost like $4 to $10 atTrader Joe's.
Okay, Most single women that Iknow are buying themselves
flowers on a regular basisalready and are taking
themselves out on dates already.
So it's not like they don'tknow how to do those things and
it's not like they're using menmost of the time to go on dinner

(34:37):
dates.
Yes, I know that there are somewomen out there that are
probably doing that.
Of course yes, there are, butfor the most part, no, they're
not, and it sucks like to hearthat that people would think
that that's really they'retotally missing the point when I
hear that.
It's missing the point of likewhat women are asking for, like,
and I don't think that anythingwomen want or asking for is a
whole lot like, just be curious,like about a woman's experience

(35:01):
and like what is so bad about awoman wanting the best
treatment for herself.
Why, why is that such a problem?
I don't understand it.
Even if, like, she wants to bethe boss and stuff, like I said,
that's just not the woman foryou and that that now you,
that's the type of woman thatyou, you want to avoid.
She's just going to have tofigure out the hard way until
she finds a person that worksfor her or that works for her

(35:24):
but it's not for you.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
Yeah, I just like I don't.
I feel relationships should bebalanced and I feel like a lot
of girls have this mentality andprobably guys too.
But I date girls where it'slike they want their side.
Oh, this guy do all thesethings for me, do all these
things for me.
But then what does the guy want?
And like, like.
Then you're kind of like, oh,he shouldn't even ask me, like,

(35:47):
what I bring to the table, Ijust show up, but you have to do
all these things for me.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
You know what I mean.
Like that's what and I get abeauty is a currency, I get that
.
But it does sound a little bitlike you're like yeah, I show up
and I'm hot, like that's,that's what I bring to the table
.
I'm wondering where this notionof entitlement is coming from.
It sounds like you have apersonal experience.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
It's still affecting you right now uh, I have a lot
of experiences with girls whohave this boss bitch attitude.
I'm kind of like here we go,because it's kind of like what's
behind that?

Speaker 1 (36:17):
can we explore that?

Speaker 2 (36:19):
because I think that there's this huge push for girls
.
Okay, beyonce, all the tiktokvideos, be strong, independent
woman, all this stuff, fine,cool, I'm all on board with that
.
Then, like, if you want to bethat girl, like, if you want to
be the boss, it comes with theside of the boss responsibility.

(36:39):
So it's like okay, you want tobe the boss?
Cool, are you willing to work10 hours a day to start your
business?
Are you willing to?
It's 3am and something goeswrong and somebody has to fix
the problem.
And it's annoying to fix theproblem, but somebody has to do
it all right, well, you're theboss, fulfill the boss
responsibility.
But people, I feel like peoplewant the boss attitude, I'm a
boss bitch, all this stuff.

(37:00):
And then they're like yeah, butcan you pay for this?
And then like, can you do?

Speaker 1 (37:04):
this for me and like pay my parking ticket.
Is that like, maybe you resent?
Is it because the woman isbeing masculine and it's
challenging you as a man andyour masculinity?
It's making you feel less of aman because she is doing more
than just your part?

Speaker 2 (37:21):
No, but that's the thing.
She doesn't do the man part.
She doesn't pay for things, shedoesn't, uh, plan things, she
doesn't do the work, but shewants to have the benefit of the
, the, the ego boost of I'm theboss, but like, okay, like I
feel fulfilled in the masculinerole, right, so when I'm doing
things for girls, I'm happy topay for things, I'm happy to do
all the work planning things.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
So what's the expectations?
Like on them, you have certainexpectations.
Yes, yes, I feel like.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
My expectations are pretty low.
I think it's humble, befeminine, be emotionally
supportive, dress up if we goout, that kind of thing.
It's not.
I don't expect you to pay forthings.
I don't expect you to plan allthese things, get a job, all
these things.
All I expect is like a humble,nice, sweet girl.
That's it.
So would you take care of her,like financially.

(38:09):
Not like rent and shit likethat.
Why not?

Speaker 1 (38:14):
Because I'm not a sugar daddy.
Why is that something that youview being a sugar daddy's
mentality?
Well, the reality is Instead ofjust really wanting the person
that you love to be secure andyou don't have to worry about
that.
Well, it depends on whatexpectations you have, on what
kind of lifestyle you're tryingto live once you get to a more
secure place and being in acommitted relationship.

(38:36):
That's more or less what I'mtalking about at some level I
mean if I was married to a girlthat's what I'm saying like.
So if you were with someone youknew without a shadow of a doubt
it was leading towards marriage, like you were going to marry
this person, you would take careof them financially.
Correct, because you havecertain expectations of what
they should be doing at thehouse, right?

Speaker 2 (38:53):
I mean?
I mean, if we're at that pointin the relationship, maybe we're
like fiance something, okay,yeah, for sure.
But then we'd probably beliving together, so I'd probably
be paying the rent anyway.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Okay.
So see a man will provide whenit is the right woman for him.
Yeah, but then it can't be likeif, if I'm doing you don't want
her barking out the orders andthis yes, yes, yeah, yeah so I
mean yes, like, even yes, I, I,you, you, that's just you and
your personal preference.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
You know, there are certain men that I have
personally met in my own lifewho do like that type of woman,
who like a more aggressive womanlike that like the simp guys I
don't know about simp that,because that's how it would make
me feel, like the guys who arelike oh sure, babe, anything,
here's the thing, and they'relike yeah, bitch, like blah,
blah, blah, like you like pegthem from behind or some shit.

(39:46):
You know what I mean yeah, likeshe owns them.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
Yeah, that would like .
I would not want to be in thatkind of relationship.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
But I I mean, hey, if you find people like that, go
for it.
But then do you also feel likesome kind of loss of attraction
from the standpoint of likethey're just pushovers and
you're walking all over them andthey're not kind of standing up
for themselves?

Speaker 1 (40:04):
I mean I could not respect a man that wasn't
masculine.
I'm sorry, because I justdidn't grow up that way.
I wasn't raised that way.
I was raised by a verymasculine man, and so it's like
I can't.
That's just not for me.
I see um, it's like I went on.

(40:24):
That just reminded me.
I went on a date one time, ofcourse, in LA, and we went
hiking up Runyon and it was atdusk and all of a sudden you
hear something rustling aroundin the bushes it was probably
like birds or something, or acoyote and he like grabbed my
arm and was like acting allscared, was like should we head
back to the car?
And I was like am I gonna haveto save us, like if something

(40:45):
happens?
Like I was just like yeah,let's go back because this is
over.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
Like I can't, you can't unick the ick I mean I
agree with you, but then itseems like you're like wanting
to be barking orders and takingcontrol and all these things,
but then you don't like when theguy has you take control.
You see what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
No, no, no.
What do you mean?
In those circumstances, I wouldwant the man to step up and be
like, oh my God, like, be likewhat is going on down there.
Not be like, oh is going ondown there.
Not be like, oh my God, I'mscared, like I want to run away.
That's the attitude of it and Iwas like no, it was like a
little girl almost.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
But isn't it hard to find a guy who's like okay, he's
the masculine guy, he's goingto take care of you, all these
things, but then he's okay withyou barking orders at him and
kind of like being the boss inthe relationship?
Isn't that like very difficultto find?
Because to me, like most guyswho are masking, they're like no
, I have my boundaries, like I'mthe man, like I want to be the
master you think?

Speaker 1 (41:41):
there's boundaries in every relationship.
You know, it's not.
I think it's so people areturning it into something that
is so black and white andrelationships are not black and
white at all.
It's not.
It's not my way or the highway.
You know, when two people cometogether, it should never be
about that and it should neverbe that way.
And if it is, and you'reprobably in the wrong
relationship, because, at leastin my opinion, like when I'm

(42:04):
with the right person, it'sabout honoring like that person,
and it's not.
It's not about any of thoselike minute things like that are
just very shallow.
You know what I mean.
It doesn't become about those.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Okay, so what do you mean by like?
How do you honor a guy, forexample?

Speaker 1 (42:26):
Um, like with my choices, with my actions, my
words, like the way that I amaround other people, whether
it's publicly or privately, inthe way I conduct myself, you
know, gotcha.
Like and I show up for thatperson.
You know in the ways that I saythat I will and I expect the
same from my partner.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Gotcha gotcha.
So in your relationships arethey typically taking care of
you?

Speaker 1 (42:41):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
Gotcha.
And so where do you draw theline between what's considered?
Because I do agree with you Tosome extent.
All guys pay for girls.
Maybe it's just drinks, maybeit's dinners, maybe the next
level.
They pay for trips, they payfor bags, they pay for rents,
like where do you draw the?

Speaker 1 (42:58):
line between sugar daddy and like relationship um,
to be honest, I don't think I'veever had to have that
conversation, but I'm glad thatyou brought up the paying thing,
because you typically don'tvalue things that you don't pay
for.
You know, like, let's say,usually people will pay to go to
a seminar or a masterclass, forinstance.
Why?
Because they won't really takeit seriously and they won't take

(43:20):
the principle seriously orthink it was such a great
seminar if they didn't have topay for it.
Usually, most of the time,people tend to value things that
they are forced to pay for.
That's just like statistic wise.
That's facts.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
You're saying men, or men and women?

Speaker 1 (43:33):
Men as well.
The more that they invest inyou, the more they are invested
in you.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Does that make sense?
I mean, I get it, yeah, so it'sjust like if women give things
away for free all the time, it'sjust like why you know what I
mean, and I've made that mistakebefore in the past of like
sometimes a woman can getnervous, or like really like a
person and overly exert herselfin a way, or like try to prove
this or prove that, not knowingit's working in the opposite

(44:00):
direction, you know.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
But so you don't think like, okay, let's say you
hook up with some guy and hedidn't pay for anything for you,
right.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Okay, and you just, whatever you got drunk hook
night, whatever.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Then you don't think like okay, you both had sex, you
both got enjoyment out of it.
Do you think it's?

Speaker 1 (44:19):
like the battle.
The scales are out of balance.
No, the scales are so out ofbalance.
How many?
The guy is gonna not excuse mylanguage.
The guy's gonna nut every time,no matter what.
How many times?
There's so too many men walkingthis earth that have blocked
women with the same fingers thatthey couldn't even find the

(44:39):
clitoris with.
Okay, and that's a problem.
They don't even know how toplease a woman.
They don't even know how tohave sex.
Like sex is an art.
It's not about taking a womanto pound town all of the time.
It's not, and like, I don'tthink that they know that.
And it's not and like I don'tthink that they know that, and
it's like I don't want to bewith.
I talk to women a lot andthat's probably the number one

(45:01):
thing that we talk about is thatthey don't know how to have sex
.
Um, and it's unenjoyable for usand it's like I know how to
take care of myself, so I'm notworried about it, but, um, it
would be nice, like if they theyknew how to take care of women.
So what if a guy did?

Speaker 2 (45:16):
make you come, okay, what about it?
But, um, it would be nice, likeif they they knew how to take
care of women.
So what if a guy did make youcome?
Okay, what about it?
Then would it be okay?
Well, I had a great time duringsex.
He had a great time during sex,no good.
But so you're saying, alsobecause I would never.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
I would still never.
Okay, if I had a great timeduring sex, I still would not
take that person seriously likeas a legitimate partner, because
you didn't invest in me, youdidn't show me you really cared
to invest in me.
You just obviously cared aboutsex and that was it.
Just.
The same way a man would lookat a woman who has, like a he
has a one-night stand with, whatdo you do?
You mentally discard that woman, place her in a separate

(45:49):
category.
This is not wife material.
She goes over here.
Goodbye on to the next rightnot necessarily so.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
I do that, for example, like what I was saying
before.
If a girl like is like flakeson me, right, then I'm like okay
, that that's when I put him inthat category.
One night stand if I like thegirl, I'll keep seeing her.
For sure.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
I'm not like, oh, she's one night stand, like okay
, like I don't like her becausebut I'm saying you would never
take them as um, you would nevertake them seriously, like as a
potential serious partner no, Ihave met girls that started out
as a one night maybe, yeah, well, maybe you're the exception to
that rule maybe yeah but a lotof people are do not favor that
I think more so.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
What it is is typically when you have one
night stand with a guy, you'rejust not filtering out for the
guys that you're making weight.
So if a guy like if you make a,you make a guy wait three dates
, the fuck boys by the second orthird date are like oh fuck,
how much more work is this goingto?
Be Okay fuck it, I'll go sleepwith this easy girl.
You're more so weeding out thefuck boys than you are making a
guy like you or making a guyrespect you.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
Yes, they can't maintain the mask.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
That's why usually months, because three months,
yeah, yeah, guys wait threemonths.
I've made some way longer thanthat.
These guys must have character.
Holy shit three months yes, doyou kiss them.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
At least they're like I mean yes, of course, yeah, um
, and of course I like them andthey like me and they.
We enjoy each other's company.
So there's only like threedates, maybe like a fourth three
, four dates and you expectsomeone to give you their body
like that yes that is so gross.
It's not that I expect it.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
But I'm just like, at some point do we have chemistry
or not.
Like, if you can't figure itout on a third date, if we have
chemistry, I mean, it's notabout that.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
It's about, it's not about that.
Like, if you're gonna be withthat person for a little bit of
time, then why can't you waitthree months?
Well, here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
Okay, so you feel used if a guy has sex with you
and just like dips and doesn'tpay for anything, right?

Speaker 1 (47:44):
That, or even ghost, you too.
Like ghosting is such soimmature.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
So so girls feel used from sex, Guys feel used when
I'm paying a girl for dinner,for dinner, for a trip, for this
let's go to Tulum.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
And then if I'm like if I was still not getting
anything after that, then I feelused.
Yes, because our measuringsticks on what feeling used is
are different from each other.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
Yes, yes, yes, but that's why I'm saying okay, how
many dates are going before?
I'm like, okay, I'm being usedright now, like I have to like.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
I revolve too, hey.
But my friend, maybe you need asecond job.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
What do you mean?

Speaker 1 (48:15):
If you're that worried about the bill.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
It's not about the money, though.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Okay, but don't you think that a woman can do that
for herself.
Like why do men keep resortingback to the same thing, as if a
woman couldn't take herself outon those dinner dates?

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Oh yeah, no, don't get me wrong, we are already
doing those things.
If a girl was like, let's splitthe bill every time, okay, I'll
wait longer, cool, we'resplitting the bill anyway.
But that's what I'm saying.
But you think that?

Speaker 1 (48:38):
she would owe you sex just because you paid for
dinner.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
No, she wouldn't owe me sex, but at some point I'm
going to say we don't havechemistry here.
I feel like you're using meJust because she won't fuck you.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
I think if it was the right girl, if it was a girl
that you thought of as wifematerial, you would not act that
way and you would not look atit that way.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
I definitely wouldn't do three months.
There's no shot.
That's a long fucking time.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
I mean okay, not for some, men I know.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
But the reality is, I guess if you did that, you
would just have to accept thefact that you're probably going
to get used like 10 times by 10different girls and maybe the
11th fingers crossed.
She's not using me.
She really likes me.
It's like I'm not gonna fuckingplay that.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
I think that these, I think when you know, like when
you know that you're, you likethis person and that there's
potentiality for long-term, it'snot that way.
So these gentlemen, like I, weended up dating for like a
little bit of time.
You know, it wasn't just like Idrug them out to use their

(49:45):
money or take their money.
It was not that way.
I did not even have to ask themto do these things for me.
Okay, they were more thanwilling to do them for me.
So there's just a difference,like some, some men just prefer
it that way, some men are raisedthat way and some men are used
to it, like and I'm used to that.
so it just depends on what yourstandard is and where you're at

(50:05):
with things and it might andit's not also then, and it's not
like I come with this attitudeof, in this energy of expectancy
, or you better do this for me,or like you better do that, like
.
No, I am not that way with them.
You know, like I'm very likekind and understanding and I'm
not.
I don't, I don't have thatentitlement.
Does that make sense?
I'm not like go, go get me achanel bag right now.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
I'm never talking to you again gotcha, gotcha and, to
be fair, maybe it's becauselike I can like get girls, so
like maybe I'm like biased fromthe standpoint of like all right
, well, I have like theseoptions.
This girl's like it's a fourthdate already, nothing, okay.
Well, maybe I should like trythis girl because like it seems
like we might have moreconnection here yeah, and you're
also not looking for anythingserious.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
So I mean it makes sense like your end goal is just
to get laid.
You're not looking for somebodywho's serious no, I would date
a girl seriously.
Oh, she's the right girl, forsure well then, you wouldn't
want the side options though,right?

Speaker 2 (51:01):
the what options the side options like no, but I
think a girl like three dates,because what do you want?
Okay?

Speaker 1 (51:08):
like, for instance, let's say like someone was
serious, like future wifematerial yeah and then she found
out you had all these otherside options at the same time as
her, and then it ruined thingswith her.
How would you feel?

Speaker 2 (51:19):
Yeah, but if it was like once we actually started
dating.
Okay, now I'm going to get ridof the side options.
Now we're exclusive.
But what if?

Speaker 1 (51:24):
she found out that you lied to her and, like you,
had these side options but Idon't lie to girls, okay, I mean
I'm not gonna bring up on a.
You just said in the beginningof this interview that you did
lie.
Yeah, when I was a fuckboy?

Speaker 2 (51:39):
yeah, not anymore okay but yeah, back in the day
sometimes, yeah, I just feellike three dates to me is plenty
of time to figure out do youhave a connection with this
person or not and if you don'tokay, like we can go separate
ways, but like but you can havea connection and not have to
sleep together.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Why do you have to rush things?

Speaker 2 (51:57):
because otherwise I'm going to continue to feel used.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
It's the same way of like if we talk about everything
in one sitting.
Where's the fun in that?
Like there's no.
There's no enjoyment in gettingto know each other.
There's no fun or excitement inthat.
If I just tell you everythingnow, you know what I mean, it's
the same thing.
So it's like if I give it upnow, then it's like there's no
excitement anymore.
You already know pretty muchwhat it's like and what's going
on from there.

(52:21):
You've had a lot of otheroptions, so it's like no, what
is the harm in waiting a littlebit longer?
I guess I don't like if she'sworth it, she's worth it to you,
and if she's not, she's notgoing to be for you, and that's
just all there is to it.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
Here's what it is.
I don't like when dating a girlwho sees sex as kind of like a
power tool or like a but men dothat too, so that's not fair.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
That is definitely the popcorn on the kettle.
Black Men use that as a weaponas well.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
Sex.
In what way?

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Like by keeping a woman on the line um keeping her
around as an option just forsex no, but men don't use sex to
keep her around.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
Men keep her around for the sex.
That's different okay, I'msaying like I know what you mean
yeah, so after like it feelslike if a girl's like, oh, I
don't want to like give it tohim, like I want sex to be, like
, oh, we're both enjoying this.
This is a mutually beneficialthing for both of us.
It's an experience we're havingtogether, not, oh, she gave it
to me.
Thank you so much for giving mesex.

(53:25):
You know what I time.
Then you don't have any room toquestion.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
You know, yeah, some people talk about it.
Sometimes you don't have thetime time to talk about it and
usually a lot of times when youdon't make the space to talk
about it, then people have mixedfeelings or get confused about
the situation.
Instead of if you would havejust made your expectations

(53:51):
clear from the beginning whichsometimes people don't and then
later on they sleep with someoneand then they're like, oh, wish
I never would have did that,regret it.
Well, if you would have justmade it clear, then there would
be no confusion.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Yeah, I suppose.
But it is also difficultbecause, like I said, as a guy
you have to kind of play thegame and if you just go on a
first date, like all right, solike oh yeah, this is what I'm
looking for, like you know, it'sjust kind of like no, I wish I
lived in the world.
I could just be like all right,like I think you're hot, let's
sleep together.
Oh no, ok, I think you're like,but you can't like, it's not
going to.

(54:35):
But you don't do it in those sooverwhelmed and I haven't had
them like five years.
But it was like, oh, like Iwould like have, like these
numbers on my phone.
I'm like, did I meet this onefrom rye or a hinge?
Like I'm not like going backand like trying to find the okay
, I'm sorry, but I will not likepaying for an app.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
I'm I will never pay for a dating app.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
You're a girl, of course not.
No, you don't realize.
Like as a girl, you just wakeup to like 20 messages on the
app.
As a guy, you have to do thework of like swiping, thinking
of something interesting to say.
Like even I remember when bumblefirst came out I was like it
was like 10 years ago orwhatever, and I was pumped
because I was like I'm so sickof having like think of
something interesting to sayabout her profile.

(55:16):
That's like not to try hard butstill charismatic, and
everything.
I'm like, finally, the girl hasto do the work.
Sweet, and every girl on Bumblehey, look, I have to do the
work.
Anyway, it's the same.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
It's all the same Because why would she do the
work?
No, I mean, you want a femininewoman, right?

Speaker 2 (55:37):
work.
No, you want a feminine woman.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
Right, you want a feminine woman yeah, that's fair
.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
I agree with you on that.
One take the horns.
Yeah, for sure.
All right, we are about out oftime, uh, but this has been fun.
It's been uh very back andforth, which are some of my
favorite episodes, so Iappreciate that I should have
brought an orange.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
We could have did the orange challenge what's that I?
Could have asked you, or Icould have pretended like I
didn't know how to peel anorange and seen if you were
gonna peel the orange for me ornot is that a thing like a test?
Yeah, like all these people Iwould never do it to a man, but
all right.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Well, we'll have to do a round two sometimes where
can?
People find you, uh, in theinstagram.
You want to give shout outanything like that.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
My first and last name, hayley reiner.
You can find me on instagramawesome.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
We'll tag it in the post as well all right, all
right.
Thanks for listening you.