Surviving War, One Woman's Journey of Resilience, Trauma, Trust, Transformation ft. Dajana - Ep.100 - Unattainable Podcast Show

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I love Cleveland just because of the people, but as
far as the town goes, I meanthere's not much to love.
I learned English.
I think it took maybe like sixmonths to have a conversation.
She walks me outside and she'slike Sky, repeat.
I'm like what she's like repeat.
I'm like, okay, sky, she's likeBush and she would just like

(00:20):
point at things.
And that was how I startedlearning English.
I got bullied.
I got, you know, like thrownfries at in the cafeteria.
We always have two roads totake, two options, and it's up
to you.
And I just decided that it wasgonna make me stronger.
I survived a freaking war.
I need to go out there and getit.

(00:41):
I need to go after my dreams.
I need to go live my life.
Giving up and you know, justbeing depressed is not an option
.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Therapy and all these things that are becoming
popularized are just a band-aidfor not fixing the problem.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
The most desirable men in this world are men who
can talk about how they feel.
We're not meant to go throughlife alone.
We're meant to go through ittogether.
A lot of men who are, like,obsessed with porn.
They're watching porn everysingle day, this, and that
they're not happy.
Knowledge is power, okay, andif you know why something is
happening, you're going to knowwhy you're making the same
mistake multiple times.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
Welcome to Unattainable.
Glad to have you with us.
I'm your host, zach evans,along here with my co-host,
muhammad mullay, and first ofall, thank you to all of our
listeners.
We've been getting a ton ofgrowth and engagement over the
last few months and we got tothank you guys out there for
that.
Today we got a special guest onthe show.
Why don't you go aheadintroduce yourself to the
audience?
Uh, your name, what you do andyour star sign.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Hi guys, my name is dianaiana.
I am a producer and an actressin los angeles and I'm an
aquarius aquarius, you guys areeither my best friends or mortal
enemies.
One of the two, so we'll see I'dlike to think best friends
because, we get along witheverybody and we're actually the
most unique sign in the zodiacthat's what everybody says

(02:01):
there's no, there's actually,you can google it.
There's the least amount of umaquarius is in the world oh,
like you're the most rare, rare,interesting yeah, there's,
because I mean there's 28 daysin february, so oh, I see, I see
, yeah, makes sense, makes senseum, do you say where you're
from?
Yes, so I was born in bosnia.
I'm half Croatian, half Serbian.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
When did you move to the US?

Speaker 1 (02:24):
I moved to the US in 2004, so I was a teenager 2004?
.
Yes, and how old are you now?
35.

Speaker 4 (02:34):
35, okay.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (02:36):
So tell us a little bit about your upbringing, why
you moved to the US and what youstarted doing, and how did you
get into producing an actor?

Speaker 1 (02:48):
yeah, so I was born in yugoslavia.
Have you guys heard ofyugoslavia?

Speaker 3 (02:51):
yes, okay I'm like five percent.
I'm gonna quiz you I'm justkidding.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
So, uh, two years later, a war started, and I
lived in that war with my family.
It was it tragic.
It's not like when America isin war, you know and you kind of
don't know and don't seeanything.
It was the kind of war whereyou still stay at home for six
months at a time.
You can't go outside, you're indanger at all times, and so

(03:17):
those were my first memories.
So, when I was five and a half,the war ended, and then I found
myself now in Bosnia, becauseyugoslavia broke apart into a
few other different countries,which now is like bosnia,
croatia, macedonia, slovenia.
You get the point.
Um, and then my parentsdivorced shortly after that.

(03:38):
My dad's croatian, mom isserbian.
Those were the two that werefighting in the war.
Um, I don't think that hasanything to do with their
divorce, but just, you know, thewar and everything else, it
just took a toll on theirmarriage did, were they both on
the same opinion of the war ordid they kind of each take their
home countryside well, yeah,they each took their home

(03:58):
countryside and then it was veryinteresting, you know, because
we were living in what's nowBosnia.
So my cousin, for example, who'sCroatian, he had to go and
fight for against Croatian.
So he was basically like killinghis own people.
So it's like a very complicatedhistory in that part of the
world, which is why I totallyunderstand people that don't

(04:20):
know much about it, because itjust gets very complex.
And then my, my family, myparents they just decided, once
I'm done with middle school,that I would move to america.
Nobody asked me.
They divorced, my dad, moved toamerica and they were like all
right, when you hit um 13 yearsold, you're gonna move to
america.
And I didn't want to.
I never wanted to.
I'm like one of those peoplethat never wanted to move to

(04:42):
America.
I was at this time.
At that time I already had mysister, my half-sister that my
mom had.
She was my best friend.
I loved her so much.
We had this incredible bond,which we still have today, and I
didn't want to leave them.
But I had no choice and so Iturned 13 and they started

(05:04):
working on my papers.
My dad already became a refugeeand got his green card through
that.
And then, at 14 years old, Ifound myself in Cleveland, of
all places, and you know, likebefore, that when you see
America on TV, you see New York,you see LA and you think it's
beautiful and then I come tothis like industrial town.

(05:26):
It's so gray, it's it's kind ofdepressing.
I love cleveland just because ofthe people, but as far as the
town goes, I mean there's notmuch to to love, and so, yeah, I
mean I remember waiting on thatyellow bus and not speaking a
word of english and not knowinglike where I'm going.

(05:46):
You know what the school isgoing to look like, what these
people are going to be like, howam I going to even get through
the day without speaking English.
So that was really challengingfor me and I learned English.
I think it took maybe like sixmonths to have a conversation,
but it took me longer than thatto actually speak it fluently
and understand it.

(06:06):
And I remember the first day ofschool, the tutor didn't know
what to do with me because shelooked at me and she's like you
literally know nothing, and I'mjust looking at her.
I have no idea what she'ssaying.
And so she walks me outside andshe's like sky, repeat.
I'm like what.
She's like, repeat.
I'm like okay, sky, she.
She's like, repeat, I'm likeokay, sky, she's like bush.
And she would just like pointat things.
And that was how I startedlearning English.

(06:28):
Crazy.
Yeah, and so it took me like sixmonths, like I said, to learn
conversational English and itwas just.
It was really hard, a hard timein my life, you know.
I didn't really feel like I wasfitting in.
And then in america there's alot of bullying for some reason,
more than in other countriesthat surprises me.

(06:49):
I thought it would be less inamerica, where it's kind of
stigmatized more and it's kindof everybody be nice yeah, well,
I went to menner high schooland that school at that time was
the biggest in ohio and we hadfour kids in one semester commit
suicide because of bullying soit was very tough.
Yeah, even one of my reallyclose friends did you get

(07:12):
bullied?
yeah, I got bullied.
I got, you know, like thrownfries at in the cafeteria.
People were just like haha, Idon't speak english.
One day, one day, I rememberbeing in this kitchen class and
this boy, I was talking to himand then the teacher asked me
something to say out loud, which, like I hated that.
Like if I had to say anythingout loud for people to hear, I

(07:34):
was like here it comes, they'regonna make fun of me and instead
of saying yep, you know, whenyou say like yep, I didn't know
that's how you say it, so I saidyep and then you can laugh.
All the kids are like yep.
And then they started callingme up and then this one freaking
boy, this blonde boy.
Like every time he would see me,see me in the hallway, he'd be

(07:55):
like hey, yep, what's up?
And so it was just a lot, youknow.
And it's funny because, fastforward, after I was in LA for
like two years and I was postingyou know my crazy life and all
these things I was getting to do, he actually messaged me on
Facebook and he's like I am soproud of you.
I just want to tell you howamazing it is to see someone

(08:18):
from our high school make it inlife.
And I'm like first of all, Idon't think I made it, but do
you remember bullying me likeevery day for two years?
And he's like no, he's like didI really?
I'm so sorry.
He's like that was a part of mylike daily life.
I bullied everyone.
So he's like I'm sorry and I'mlike well, I mean thanks for

(08:38):
saying sorry, but now that youhave a son, I hope you'll teach
him better.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
Crazy.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
So you?
It's interesting because I feellike a lot of people that I
meet that go through challengingtimes and your time seems much
more challenging than thechallenging times a lot of
people face right.
A lot of people come outnegative or jaded or almost like

(09:05):
there's no hope, right, and Ifeel like I don't read that
energy on you at all and, andbased on the success you've had,
it seems like you kind of tookthe other road, which was this
is very hard, great, it makes mestronger and you learn from it
exactly.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
I think we always have two roads to take, two, two
options, and it's up to you.
And I just decided that it wasgoing to make me stronger.
I survived a freaking war.
Like I need to go out there andget it.
I need to go after my dreams.
I need to go live my life.
I can't settle.
I have to wake up and begrateful.
I have to be happy.
I want to be an example toother people that are dealing

(09:42):
with things.
You know, for me, giving up and, you know, just being depressed
is not an option.
That's kind of just.
I mean, I know it sounds bad,but that's the easy way it's.
It's easy you lay in bed andyou're depressed, you don't do
anything and you're just likethat's.
That's not what I'm gonna dowith this precious life that.
I that I get to have because alot of people don't get to live

(10:06):
this life.
A lot of people my age died inthe war that I lived in.
So I get to live.
I get to do something with thisgift.

Speaker 3 (10:13):
I agree 100% and I get a lot of flack on this show
when I talk about this.
But I think you know,especially for men, that therapy
and all these things that arebecoming popularized are just a
band-aid for not fixing theproblem.
Right, and it becomes almost aconduit for emotional avoidance

(10:38):
disguised as healing Right,because it's a lot easier to
avoid the problem.
And, you know, sit in thecorner of your room with your
eyes closed, humming to theuniverse like a moron right, or
scribbling in your 400 gratitudejournal on how you're gonna
feel better than it is to likego look in the mirror, tell your
inner child shut the fuck up,bitch, I run shit now.
And like wipe up those tearsand like go fix the problem.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
You know yeah, exactly, and decide to not be
numb because, you know how manypeople are walking around this
world just feeling nothing,especially men, like you said,
because men they have this thing.
You know it's not cool to feel,it's not cool to be vulnerable
or show my emotions or, you know, say how I feel.

(11:22):
To me, the most desirable men inthis world are men who can talk
about how they feel I don'tknow if I agree with you on that
, really yeah but I'm not sayingin a way where like cry and say
, oh my god, I I'm, you know,I'm so in love with you, I'll
die for you, I'm obsessed withyou, I'm, but more of like you
know I'm, I'm dealing with somuch stress at work.

(11:43):
Just share that with someone,because if you don't share and
you just keep everything in,eventually you're either gonna
get anxiety, depression, somekind of mental thing, something
is gonna break, because we'renot meant to go through life
alone, we're meant to go throughit together.
So why don't you think that menshould show emotions?

Speaker 3 (12:02):
it's not that I think they shouldn't, I just don't
think.
I think girls oftentimes saythey want an emotional guy, but
what they really want is a verystrong guy who's not that
emotional but who shows that hecares in one way or another yeah
, I think that has to do withpreference and also where people

(12:24):
are in their growth and intheir evolution, because if
you've done the work, I mean Idon't believe it.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
You know, when people say, like I'm whole, I've
healed, I don't believe in that.
I think that healing andgrowing and evolving is a
lifelong process.
But I do believe that peoplethat work on themselves
constantly, they, they cravethose deep conversations, they
crave those deep connections.
It's not just about, yeah,let's hook up those.

(12:52):
Those kinds of people actually,after they just have casual sex
, feel like shit after becauseit meant nothing.
Um, a lot of men who are like,obsessed with porn.
They're watching porn everysingle day, this, and that
they're not happy.
People crave are like obsessedwith porn, they're watching porn
every single day, this, andthat they're not happy.
People crave, uh, emotional andtrue connection with someone.
And you know, in this day andage it doesn't even have to be a
relationship if you don't wantit to be, but you do need to

(13:13):
have those connections, not justwith a partner, with someone
that you know you're having sexwith, but also with your friends
, with your family.
I mean, when's the last timelike you sit with, you know,
your father or your mother, andyou actually have a deep
conversation, more than just hey, how are you Like, how was your
day?
I don't want to talk about myday.
You know I'm sick and tired ofsurface.
I want to go beyond that.

(13:34):
And.
I want to know you like the realyou.
I want to know about yourchildhood.
I want to know about whatscares you, what you love the
most.
I want to know you know justeverything about you, like what
got you to this point in lifeand that's my biggest problem
with la is that I'm outgrowingthe people that I know in la.
Um, I know there are goodpeople out here too, but I'm

(13:58):
sick of the surface level, likeI don't care what car you drive
at this point, you know I havemy own apartment, I have my own
car.
Like what else do you offer?

Speaker 3 (14:06):
so it depends, like I agree with you, but it also
depends on where you are in your, in your process yeah, yeah for
sure, and I I do agree that thelevel of kind of fakeness in la
and superficial um quality toit is driven by this need to be

(14:28):
the top dog or the mostsuccessful, especially for a lot
of people who came from a smalltown, were in that small town,
they were top shelf right andthey were the best singer or the
hottest girl or the best,whatever you know.
And then they come to la andthen you're in the middle of the
pack.
It's like yo, you're justaverage now and I think a lot of
people can't handle that andthey've never developed the work

(14:49):
ethic and the drive because intheir hometown they never needed
it, because everybody just gavethem shit because they were
cool.
For no reason yeah exactly.
It's like yeah, now you got toput in the work.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Welcome to reality, you know yeah, you're no longer
at 10, now you're like a three.

Speaker 4 (15:03):
Yeah, yeah, now you're like a three better
better start doing some push-upsyeah yeah, so then you moved to
LA, and what was the purposethat you moved to LA for?

Speaker 1 (15:12):
so, um, to go back, I lived in Cleveland.
I finished college there.
My dad's very strict he told meI can't move anywhere till I'm
done with college.
So I did.
I finished journalism andpromotional communications in
three and a half years and justgot out of there.
And you know why?
It mainly because I just wantedbigger and better for myself.
I just kind of before I evenever been to la, I knew it was

(15:35):
la for me because I like niceweather and then also I knew
that the opportunities in theentertainment world would be
here.
So at first I was uh, I wasreally struggling the the first,
I would say, about one year inLA.
I was really struggling.
Um, I came here.
I think it was just likefifteen hundred or two thousand
dollars.
It was 12 years ago.

(15:56):
Um, I lived with a roommate whowas doing questionable things
and was trying to get me to doquestionable things with her.
And that's where my morals andmy values and my strict dad came
in.
Because imagine, like my rentis coming up and I have no money
.
And she's like so if we just gohang out with my friend, he'll

(16:19):
pay our rent for three months.
And I'm like well, what do youmean?
Hang?
out so it was more of that kindof hanging out, you know, and
I'm like, no, no, I'm cool,worst case scenario, I'll just
go back to cleveland.
I don't want to but I will.
So there's a lot of temptationthat comes, the kind of
temptation that makes you loseyour soul in la, and I've seen

(16:39):
it over and over and over againwith so many girls, like when I
worked at one oak.
I see these beautiful younggirls coming in with like you
know this, like beautiful, happyinnocence, and then they get
into drugs and alcohol and sexand selling you know their
bodies and then and listen, I'mnot judging.

(17:01):
Also, like I'm a veryunderstanding person, I had a
friend who did that, but she wascool, she was able to do it,
but most people are not.
Most people look themselves inthe mirror and they don't like
what they see, and that's whenyou have a problem.
And so I've seen so many girlsI mean countless, countless
girls from all around the world.
They just lose themselves, theylose their innocence, and then

(17:27):
some end tragically, some, not Imean multiple suicides that I'm
know of.
So really sad stuff, you know.
So, um, yeah, the the roommateto go back to that, she was
she's, she's the one thatactually ended up committing
suicide oh sure yeah, and I wasjust so glad that I was able to
say no, um, because I thoughtabout it.
Let's be real, you know, I'mstruggling and someone's

(17:49):
offering like five thousand, tenthousand to hang out and
they're like young and not badlooking.
You gotta really think long andhard about that.
Like it wasn't.
It wasn't just like no.
Right away I thought about itwas like, oh my god, it would
help so much.
But then I'm like, but thenwhat's the price of that?
So, long story short, Iliterally ate rice and kfc every
day for like a month and a half, no money.

(18:12):
So broke, started going tochurch, started praying and I'm
just like, please, god, don'tlet me go back to cleveland.
Started, you know, bottleservice.
And then my life changedovernight.
Bottle service was it for me atthat time.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
Interesting, yeah, yeah, it's crazy because, like
now, I've been in LA what, like10 years or something.
So I've seen girls who are justgetting into modeling or the
scene or the entertainmentindustry and I've seen girls
kind of like on their way out,right, girls kind of like on

(18:47):
their way out, right.
And one big problem thathappens is when you're young, as
a girl, when you're 20, 21, 22,right, it's like your lifestyle
is so insane because of theopportunities you get and your
potential to earn income basedon just your beauty is insane,
because you could do somethinglike what you were talking about
with your roommate you could doonly fans.
You could do something likewhat you were talking about with
your roommate you could doOnlyFans.
You could do sugar daddy things, anything like that.

(19:09):
The problem is, if you don'tbuild a skill set and a work
ethic during those 10 years ofyour 20s, eventually you're
going to hit the point wherethose opportunities are starting
to dry up.
But you haven't spent 10 yearsbuilding a skill set and, on top
of that, most of these girlsare accustomed to this crazy,

(19:31):
insane lifestyle.
So for them to start out andstart eating KFC when they're 30
years old and start as anintern somewhere.
There's no way.
They don't have the disciplinebuilt up and they don't have the
skill set and career path.
So then it's just like, well, Igot to marry a rich guy, but
now a lot of the rich guys aregoing for the younger girls.

(19:51):
So now it's like this very sadlike character arc where they're
kind of at the end and it wasgreat in their 20s and now it
kind of sucks, where you kind ofchose the path of like it sucks
early on, but now you're likecrushing it.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yeah, I think it's important and I always tell
girls this, younger girlsespecially you have to have some
kind of skills and you have towork on yourself, because
eventually, you know those kindsof offers will disappear.
And even if you marry rich Imean, depends on what you want
in life, Right, but he's nevergoing to respect you if you have
nothing going on.

(20:26):
Maybe there's like one in amillion that will, but most men
want you to have some kind ofskill set and that doesn't mean
that he wants you to be workingfull time when you're married to
him, but something prior to him, not just like, hey, I waited
for you to save me.
You know nobody respects that.
So I would recommend toeveryone, to always keep

(20:47):
learning, even men.
I've always like my entire life,I'm always learning new things,
like during covid I was bored.
I learned spanish like now wecan do this in spanish.
I'm like 90, they're prettyfluent.
Every time I travel anywherewhere they speak spanish, they
get like shocked, and so alwaysbe learning something new,
improving yourself, and that'salso how you keep your mind
stimulated and you don't getdepressed, you don't get anxious

(21:10):
.
You know, like people that areand and I've been dealing with
that myself you know, with allthe trauma that I've been
through, I've had anxiety,really bad and panic attacks,
and I noticed it gets really badwhen I'm bored like if I'm not
doing anything, it gets bad.
So I'm constantly learning newthings and improving myself in
some way and what triggers you?

(21:30):
Triggers the anxiety or thethat kind of stuff so lack of
control is a big one for me.
So like, if I'm on an airplaneand I know it's like you're shit
out of luck, I mean, ifsomething goes wrong there's
nothing you can do.
So I don't like the fact that,like, oh my gosh, I'm in a plane
and I can't do anything aboutit, but then you know it's not

(21:52):
rational, but I still can't helpit.
So, the second it starts beingbumpy.
My hands are tingling, like myfingers, you know I'm getting
hot, I'm getting sweaty, I'mseeing like double and my body
starts going through this.
But then I have to remindmyself it's just anxiety, I'm
not going to die, this is normal.
This happens to everyone, andespecially from someone that
comes from the Balkan culture,like me.

(22:14):
People from where I come fromhave been through a lot.
You know wars, and they don'tbelieve in that.
Most people so like if I go andtell my family member I have
anxiety, they were like shut up,you're bored go find something
to do, I see you know there's noptsd, there's no anxiety,
there's no depression, there'snone of that.
We're just like shut up, suck itup.
There are bigger problems outthere, yeah, so you know, like,

(22:39):
I just think it's, it'simportant to kind of just to get
yourself through that, and I'manti-pills, so I don't want to
take anything.
I'm the same way.
Yeah, I know my brain.
Just the way I caused it, I canhelp myself get through it.
So, you have anxiety too.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
I mean, I wouldn't say I have anxiety, but I get
anxiety, I guess.
I have definitely some level ofsocial anxiety.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
Oh really.
Which stems?

Speaker 3 (23:04):
from when I was back in like middle high school,
right, my family was very poor.
My dad was a gym teacher, mymom was a stay-at-home mom.
They had six kids.
So I'd always get made fun ofbecause I would always wear like
my cousin's hand-me-downs, soit'd be way too big for me.
And all the other kids in theschool would have these little
little polos with a littlealligator.

(23:24):
They were like clones of eachother.
They all had the same shirt,just different colors, and
they'd step out of their mom'sRange Rover and they'd all make
fun of us for our clothes.
So I didn't have any friendsreally.
In middle school, high school,my freshman year, there was a
new kid to the school, so hedidn't have any friends.
I didn't have any friends.
So we like really bonded andkind of did everything together.

(23:46):
We'd eat lunch together, we'dplay video games together, have
like sleepovers, stuff like that.
And it was the first time in mylife that I remember really
feeling happy, like I reallyjust wake up and like look
forward to going to schoolbecause Nate was going to be
there, you know.
But then one day, around likewinter, one of the football

(24:11):
players started this rumor thatwe're gay together and for me
I'm like you know, who careswhat these people think?
Like I know, like we're not gay, whatever.
And back then gay wasn't cool,like it kind of is now.
It was like very like, not cool, you know.
So I was like like not cool,you know.
So I was like who cares, right.
But I could feel nate slowlystarting to kind of distance
himself.
And it really hit me the umright after we came back from

(24:37):
like winter break.
It was the first day of lunchand you know, I sit in our usual
spot back right corner of thelunchroom and I see Nate from
across the room with his littletray and he makes eye contact
with me and then he looks awayreally quickly and then I see
him go sit down at like adifferent table and that moment

(25:01):
it was like not only did I feelobviously like obviously like
devastated, that like my bestfriend at the time pretty much
like ditched me, you know, butthere was this overwhelming,
just like feeling of anxietythat everybody was gonna see me
eating lunch alone that you'realone and this is my freshman
year.
So now there's like seniors inthe lunchroom.
You know you're like, you wantto be cool, everything like that

(25:23):
and that's so intimidating yeah.
So I like stood up and I waslike walking around the
lunchroom and I like my handswere like shaking with my tray,
cause I was like, fuck, who do Isit by?
Kind of like looking liketrying to find a spot, and I
literally snake the entirelunchroom Cause I'm
procrastinating the like hardconversation.
Hey, like, can I sit down?

(25:44):
Because I'm procrastinating thelike hard conversation.
Hey, like, can I sit down?
It's awkward, right.
So I got all the way to the endand at this point I have to sit
down.
There's nowhere else to go.
So I'm like, hey guys, isanybody sitting here?
And they all like stoppedtalking and like looked at me
and they're like no, you're good.
And it was like they didn't sayanything mean or rude, but it

(26:06):
was just that feeling of likewhat the fuck are you doing, bro
?
Why are you sitting here?
We don't even know you and Isat there for three or four days
and it was just the mostawkward lunches ever, because it
was just that energy of likewhy are?
Are you here with us, right?

Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
So then I started, I just went back to my spot and
just started sitting alone again.
But the craziest thing is, liketo this day, if I like go to a
party where, like I don't knowanybody there, it's just like me
and like one of my friends, Istill like get that feeling it
like brings me back to like whenI like don't know who to talk

(26:48):
to with my little lunch tray andI still feel like some level of
that same kind of anxiety andI've kind of developed like a
almost like a character that'sentertaining and funny and
engaging, to kind of like okay,well, people will like me if I'm
funny and engaging and I cantalk in a certain way.
But I still feel it it's likeso it's like I've never been

(27:10):
able to shake it and I don'tknow if there's a way to shake
it.
I think it just me might be.
This is just who I am.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
I just have to like deal with what it is yeah, I
don't think it's who you are,but I think it's just one of
those moments.
You know, like there's likethere's only a few moments in
life that you remember forever,and some are really good and
some are really bad, and I thinkthat's just one of the bad ones
for you.
But I mean, look at you now.
I mean you're on a podcast andyou can't stop talking, so

(27:37):
you're doing good.

Speaker 3 (27:38):
Yeah, I'm doing good now, you know.
But that's even why I say likeI don't believe in therapy for
guys, cause it's kind of like,okay, I could have like gone to
therapy and the therapist islike, oh, little boo boo, let's
make you feel better, and liketalk about your feelings, but
instead the only thing thatworked was like, okay, I have to
like learn how to be funny andentertaining and engaging and

(28:00):
learn like charisma to someextent, and that actually solved
the the problem.
So now, when I feel like that,okay, like I still feel it, but
now I have this like ability totalk to people and like join a
group and everything else that Ididn't have back then yeah, so
it's like I feel like thetherapy would have almost like
fucked me up, because then Inever would develop that skill
set yeah, I can see what you'resaying.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
I think some sometimes when you do therapy,
they keep wanting to dig throughyour past and you have to keep
reliving it, and I felt like Iwas in therapy for way too long
and then I felt like at the endI'm like I I don't want to keep
going back to the moment, orlike when I heard the grenade,
or like when I've already doneit a million times, like I'm
ready to move on.
So I think it's it's okay tokind of know where certain

(28:44):
things stem from.
Like if you're saying socialanxiety, you you already know
that's where it comes from.
So that's already.
Awareness is already like stepone.
And so I agree with you in away, like I think that people do
need therapy for, but not forfor too long, and not, uh, to
dig through their past a milliontimes over.
I think once you address it,it's time to move on.

Speaker 3 (29:06):
Yeah, and I think sometimes it's like, okay, who
cares if you know the root ofthe cause, if it's like, oh,
your problem is like yousabotage relationships when they
get too serious.
It's like you could like figureout it's because when you're
five, your mom hugged you tootight and now you have trauma.
Or you could just stopsabotaging relationships, just
like wake up one morning, spinaround three times like click

(29:28):
your heels together and juststop sabotaging relationships,
you know my subconscious action.
Well, first of all, um time toargue, baby, let's go okay.

Speaker 4 (29:40):
Just because you found the path to, to to get
over your trauma and figure outhow to cope with it doesn't mean
that everybody does.
Some people can't find the pathbecause they can't see what's
in front of them, they can't seethe door, so they have to go to
therapy because the person thatthey're talking to.
Then it's going to shed lighton what the problem is to begin

(30:03):
with to then it's going to shedlight on what the problem is to
begin with.
When the person is not equippedwith self-awareness enough to
be able to see themselves fullyand figure out where their
trauma stems from and where itcomes from, then they're going
to be incapable of fixing it tobegin with, because they just
don't know what the problem is.
If you don't know what theproblem is, if you don't

(30:23):
understand the equation, youwill never be able to solve it.
I think you have to understandthe problem.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
I don't think you have to understand where the
problem stems from.

Speaker 4 (30:31):
It's natural curiosity to want to know where
it stems from.

Speaker 3 (30:35):
Sure like maybe it makes you feel better.

Speaker 4 (30:37):
Of course I don't think it helps solve the problem
though it would in some cases,because if you know where the
problem is, then you couldfigure out that like oh OK, this
would be how I could actuallyfix it In your case.
If you didn't know why you arethe way you are, perhaps you
would still find a way.

(30:57):
But when you get the anxiety.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
There is a deep part of you that still would want to
ask the question of why am Ilike this?

Speaker 3 (31:05):
yeah, I mean it might be interesting, it has nothing
to do with being interesting.
I thought I wanted to wire thisway because I want to know,
like, where my ancestors arefrom.

Speaker 4 (31:13):
It doesn't matter, it doesn't affect my life as human
beings were wired to be curious, and so having the question is
just a normal human beingbehavior.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
But it's like saying like, okay, if my iPhone's not
working, okay, I like figure out.
Oh, my iPhone's not working, oh, I have to like do these steps.
I have to like reset it andthen hold the button for eight
seconds and now my iPhone works.
Right, I can fix my iPhonewithout knowing that the reason
that happened is somewhere inthe lines of JavaScript inside
the code of my iPhone.
This thing was off and that'sthe reason that my is somewhere

(31:46):
in the lines of javascriptinside the code of my iphone.
This thing was off and that'sthe reason that my iphone's not
working.
I can just hold the button foreight seconds.

Speaker 4 (31:50):
Boom, problem solved that's assuming your iphone
stops working one time and thenthat happens and you fix it and
problem is solved.
But if the iphone keeps doingthe same thing over and over
again, are you not going to askyourself the question of why the
why is this happening?

Speaker 3 (32:06):
I need to fix the root cause of the problem, as
opposed to just keep doing thesame thing and then the problem
keys keeps popping up yeah, butthe root cause of the problem
isn't your past, like it's like,okay, you have this trauma from
your past, but the cause of theproblem is the action that you
repeatedly take it's not.

Speaker 4 (32:26):
The root cause of the problem is your subconscious.
If you can't figure out whatwhere the subconscious turned on
you, you're not going to beable to fix it.
Why?
Because because it's yoursubconscious.
It keeps repeating itself, justlike the iphone.
It keeps going through the samesteps over and over again.
Yeah, root cause must be fixed.

(32:52):
No, I don't think so.
I mean, this is not, this isnot an argument of like.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
It's not a subjective issue.
If I go to the gym and I don'tunderstand the reason that my
muscles get bigger is becauseprogressive overload and
adaptation to stress.
If I do this 20 times at thegym, it doesn't matter.
If I understand anything, mymuscles.

Speaker 4 (33:07):
Your example makes no sense.
This is not a subconscious,because you're not
subconsciously going doing thisevery single time like what?

Speaker 3 (33:13):
are you consciously changing your behavior,
regardless of what you thinkabout it?

Speaker 1 (33:18):
okay, knowledge is power, okay, and if you know why
something is happening, you'regonna know why you're making the
same mistake multiple times.
Like it's like the same example.
When, for example, girls arealways in a relationship with
the same man, right, he's all.
They always pick the one that'sgonna be emotionally
unavailable and it's like,literally almost like being in a

(33:39):
relationship with the same man.
They just have a different name, but it's the same exact person
.
Until you learn, until untilyou learn, you're gonna keep
making the same mistake.
So, to side with mo here, youhave to have knowledge of like
where this comes from.
Like, why am I choosing thistype of man always?
Why, oh, it comes from that youknow, from that time in my life
where I was dealing with acertain issue.

(34:01):
So now that I know about thisissue, I can work on it.
I can fix it by changing theway I feel about it, by making
it into a positive, by making itinto a lesson.
So that's where I thinkknowledge comes into play.

Speaker 4 (34:17):
To give you credit.
I understand why you have thisperspective and I understand
that, just like any otheroccupation, psychologists are
human beings.
There are good ones, there arebad ones, they're shitty ones,
they're great ones.
And so you could go to apsychologist, you go to therapy
and you could sit there and theperson in front of you could do

(34:39):
such a shitty job that you you'dhave the perspective of why am
I here?
They're not fixing me, they'renot doing anything for me.
But that doesn't apply acrossthe board to every single
psychologist that's out there.
There are people who havetechniques, who have the ability
and the knowledge to be able toreally help others that are

(34:59):
going through trauma and haveproblems subconsciously that
they're unaware of, and be ableto really pull out how deep they
are and to come up with asolution to help them to fix it.
And so you know, if you talk tosomebody and they're like I had
a therapist and you know theywere shitty and so I just

(35:20):
stopped going to therapy, right?
I would use the same example ofif you, if your car breaks down
and you went to a mechanic andthe mechanic couldn't fix the
car, would you say that all themechanics suck and they don't
know how to fix cars no youwould go find a mechanic that
knows how to fix the car.

(35:41):
Potentially not potentially 100.
Two things to that, two thingsthat one.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
I feel like most people I meet in therapy are
still going to therapy forever.
It's like five years ago.
They're going to therapy andthey're still like imagine you
went to a car mechanic and it'slike five years later, your car
is still broken, like at somepoint when you'd be like all
right, I don't think this isworking.

Speaker 4 (36:03):
Let me try something else instead of this mechanic
first of all, it doesn'tparticularly, you know, I think
I think you have thatperspective because you don't
really know why they're going totherapy.
But there is also anotheraspect of again, you could be
going to a therapist who is kindof dragging along your problems

(36:24):
.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that could be one scenario.
That's what I feel like.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
I see with most people.
But another scenario could bethat the person who is going to
therapy is finding a home, asecond home, where the
relationship that they havebuilt with this person has
become more of an attachmentwith this person has become more

(36:48):
of a more of an attachment, andand so they start to really
feel calm every time they have asession or after they have a
session where then, once theycome out of it, they feel
relieved and they feel very goodbecause of how good this person
is at their job right.
Yeah, it's like a safe space,yeah so when you find that, and
especially depending on theperson's upbringing if they, you
know, if they have a theperson's upbringing, if they,
you know, if they have acomplicated relationship with
their family, if they don'treally have close friends or

(37:10):
whatever the case is, you couldkind of understand why they feel
this way and why they keepgoing to therapies for five, six
years, 10 years and they havebuilt this sort of relationship
with this person that knows themso well, especially because
everybody's different.
If I have a person, just likehow you have the tendency not to
want to get rid of any of yourfriends, regardless of what they

(37:32):
do to you, right, there aresome people who don't want to
get rid of their therapistbecause they've become so close
to them and because they feellike, oh, wow, like there's this
one person who knows everythingabout me, understands me If I
make a mistake, I know where togo, and it's not that they're
constantly making mistakes, butit's the feeling of it's
inevitable and at some point Iam going to make a mistake and

(37:54):
so, therefore, I don't want tolose my relationship with this
one person who's so close to me.
So there's just like differentton of different perspectives of
why people do the things theydo.
But I also again understand theperspective of you're going to
somebody who's so shitty thatkeeps dragging you along because
they find you as bait andthey're like, oh shit, this is

(38:16):
how I'm going to pay my bills.
And obviously, the more I couldsqueeze this person and keep
this person around, the longerI'd be able to make sure that I
have business coming in.
So I get it, but it doesn'tapply to every single person.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
I would just worry that what if the therapist took
away too much of my trauma andI'm just happy all the time,
like I'm just like awell-adjusted adult?
Like that would suck, likeimagine.
Like you're just like walkoutside every day Like oh, the
sky is so blue.
Look at the birds.

(38:53):
They're chirping Like that.
I don't want that life.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
Well, let me tell you that would be you after one
session of ayahuasca.
I tell you, that oh Jesus.
You'd be like this world is sucha beautiful place and I know
how to play a piano, like whathave you done?
Ayahuasca?
Yeah, and also people say thatayahuasca is like 10 years of
therapy and for some people itworks better than therapy.

(39:16):
So it's really, you know,depends on what works for
certain individual and you getto see, I mean, ayahuasca really
exposes everything to you, likewhat you have to work on and um
.
So you know, I agree with youthat therapy is not for everyone
.
Some people might just want togo do some mushrooms or do

(39:37):
ayahuasca, or some might want tosit down and do nothing and be
sober and sit in solitude for amonth.
I don't know.
But I mean, I think everyonewill eventually find, like, what
works for them if they trulywant to.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
And like if you have real anxiety, then I could
understand therapy.
You know what I mean.
Like if someone went to war andtheir best friend got blown up
right next to him and now thewar is over, there's no problem
left to fix, and they're stillwaking up with nightmares.
I'm like, okay, at this pointthere's no problem to fix.
You can't win by solving theproblem.

(40:12):
So okay, like maybe you need totalk, talk it out and like, fix
how you're thinking aboutthings.
I just think in most situationsand I say for guys because I
don't know what it's like to bea girl, I don't know what it's
like to have like 10x thehormones that we have and
everything else I just think fora lot of guys it's just a
coping mechanism to feel betterabout the problems that are
going to still exist when youleave the therapist's office and

(40:35):
, if anything, you want thattrauma and that anxiety to push
you to fix the problem you knowwhat?
I mean, and to remind you of themistakes you make, like it's.
It's kind of like if you wakeup at 3 am and you're like going
to the bathroom and you slamyour shin against like the side
of your bed and you're like, ohfuck, right, and it's like the

(40:55):
next time you wake up at 3 am,you have this small level of
anxiety of like, hey, don't slamyour shin against the bed again
, because that hurt last time.
Let's keep that anxiety here soI don't keep slamming my shin
against the bed.
So every day when I wake up Ihug my anxiety and I'm like I'm
glad you're here for me anxiety.
I'm like I won't let the bigbad therapist take you away from

(41:17):
me, don't worry I'm gonna useyou to help me get through it
exactly, and help me like.
Destroy my enemies in one fellswoop, you know.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
Yeah Well, the only problem with that is people that
have anxiety, like anxietydisorders.
They go into fight or flightand they don't.
Sometimes they don't know why.
You know, and your body reactslike these things are actually
happening, even though they'renot, like you said, someone
getting blown up next to you.
You know, like you get realphysical symptoms, it's not just

(41:45):
in your head.
Like the very first time I hadmy first panic attack, I was on
a plane and I told the flightattendant.
I said I'm having a heartattack and I actually really
felt that.
You know, I remember standingup and trying to go to the
bathroom and my legs I just feltlike they were just going right
through the plane and Icouldn't see anything.
It was so blurry and I was likemy heart was beating so fast

(42:06):
and like my left arm was liketingling and I was like a
hundred percent I'm dying and Ididn't know why.
So that's, that's a huge issuefor me.
It was a huge issue because Ididn't know what was causing it,
what was triggering it, andthen I, once I started learning
okay, might be lack of control,and like just knowing, made me
feel better and made me kind oflike be able to work with it.

(42:29):
But I know exactly what you'resaying.
Sometimes you can, you know,just use it.
Use those negative things asmotivation to push you to do
better to I don't knowaccomplish your goals.
To be like anxiety not today.
I get what you're saying yeah,yeah, yeah, yeah.
I get what?

Speaker 3 (42:42):
you're saying yeah.

Speaker 4 (42:44):
I also think you assume that going to therapy
will take away your trauma, in asense that you all of a sudden
would like forget the memoriesof the things that actually
happened to you.
But those things will never goaway.
They will always be therebecause they're part of your
subconscious and your consciousmind but it might take away the
feelings associated with thosememories it will allow you to

(43:08):
cope with those feelings,because the feelings will in in
a way like if you have anxiety,right you, you become upset, you
become sad and some, somepeople become depressed.
But if you no longer get theanxiety, you're no longer sad

(43:28):
and depressed and you're nolonger upset.
So I I can't imagine everysingle time you going to a
social event that, like, theimmediate response that you have
is like sadness and emotion oflike feeling upset and like I

(43:52):
can't.
I can't imagine that becauseI've never seen you have that
sort of a response but it's alot lower now than it used to be
from just repeated exposure.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
Right, but that's about.
That's not about sitting in aroom and screaming into your
Himalayan singing bowl, you know.
That's about like going and dothe hard thing until eventually
the levels that you feel go down.
It's like if you're like scaredof spiders, like okay, we'll go
hang with a bunch of spiders.
It's going to be really fuckingscary, but eventually you're
not going to be scared andthey're going to be crawling all

(44:23):
over you.

Speaker 4 (44:28):
I think it's kind of like that, of course, but but
it's, it's a much simpler way oflooking at it, because for you
the solution was much simpler.
You know, if the, if theproblem is much more complex,
then the solution would be muchmore complex I don't think there
are that many complex problems.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
I think they're just like.
I think we all know what wehave to do.
We just don't like.
People aren't fat because theydon't know that they're supposed
to work out.
People are fat because theyknow they're supposed to work
out and they don't do it.

Speaker 4 (44:49):
Do you think that the trauma response of a person
whose friend abandoned them whenthey were, how old were you at
that point?
Uh, freshman year, freshman,whatever is the same as a girl
who whose mother tried to killthem when they were like nine

(45:10):
years.

Speaker 3 (45:10):
That's what I'm saying.
That's like real trauma.
Okay, that's like actual trauma, you know but, but.
But that's my point, that likewe just don't know what the
person's trauma is like, whatthe response is, sure I just
most people like you actuallyhad a pretty traumatic like you
had like a war going on, likeyour house could be blown up at
any moment, like like that'slike real trauma.

(45:30):
Most people that I hear thathave trauma are like you know,
when I was five, my mom put mysister's spelling test in the
fridge and she didn't put mineon, and now I have trauma from
that and that's the reason thatI don't have loving
relationships and I'm like no,you don't have loving
relationships because you're anasshole.

Speaker 4 (45:49):
Yeah, but everybody's pain threshold is different.
And that's the same as sayinglike, if I punch you very hard,
you should feel the same as mepunching her very hard.
It wouldn't be the same.
She's going to probably feel alot more pain than you, would

(46:09):
you know.
And equally, one of our youknow guy friends would probably
feel a lot more pain versus,like, one of our other guy
friends who would, you know,feel a lot less pain.
It's just everybody hasdifferent way of responding to
pain.
So if it's not equal, then youcan't treat them as equal.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Yes, but the way you develop your tolerance for pain
is by feeling more pain.
It's like the reason mentalhealth is the worst in all of
the richest countries is becausewhen you're in Venezuela and
you have to walk 10 miles to thewell with your Android phone,

(46:48):
you have real problems.
So when your girlfriend breaksup with you, it's not that big
of a deal.
You're like at least I havewater.
But in America, whereeverything's so cushiony and you
get last place in thebasketball game and oh little
Gen gen z, here's yourparticipation trophy.
Let's go ride bird scooters andtalk about our feelings

(47:09):
together.
Like at some point it's likeyou never develop because you've
never had to deal with realpain.

Speaker 4 (47:15):
So then everything feels painful to you because
you've never had anything likedifficult in your life I
understand the logical aspect ofit and that makes sense in the
logical sense, but in realityyou can't force somebody to feel
pain all of a sudden, allowthem to feel the pain and the
hardships that they need to gothrough to become the person

(47:38):
that they want to be but thething is, everyone will feel
pain at one point, becausethat's how life is, you know,
we're all going to lose a parent, a sibling.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
We're all going to have a breakup.
Life isn't set up in a waywhere everything's always
beautiful and no one gets tofeel pain.

Speaker 4 (47:54):
Unfortunately, even the richest and most famous,
they're all going to feel themost unimaginable pain of you
know grief unimaginable pain ofyou know, like are you gonna
tell your 90 year old grandmagoing up the stairs that, like
grandma, you don't understandhow hard it is to go up hundreds
uh stairs?
You can't even go up three?
Like is that what you're gonnasay to your 90 year old grandma?

(48:16):
No, no exactly because, becauseyou're like okay, I understand
she's 90 years old, I understandher climbing stairs all day.

Speaker 3 (48:22):
It's like she's old, she's not, she's never gonna be
running up the stairs.
It's impossible.
She's 90 years old.
I understand her climbingstairs all day.
It's like she's old, she's not.
She's never going to be runningup the stairs.
It's impossible.
Right Okay, but if you took akid who's like 12 years old and
he's fat and he can't make it upthe stairs and you say, oh,
it's okay, like we'll get anelevator for you so you don't
have to climb those stairs, haveto climb those stairs, then he

(48:45):
never learns how to climb stairsand then he never develops into
the type of person that hewants to be.

Speaker 4 (48:47):
I agree with that, but I think you equally have to
have the same level of empathyand understanding towards both
people.
I understand from the logicalperspective that that hey, like
we have to put a little likebehind you to like, like you
know, figure your shit out.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
A bit of bullying.
You know what I mean.
Like I understand, that's likea little bit more bullying, yeah
people are becoming way toosoft.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
I know what you're saying and they like the coolest
people.
The most emotionallyintelligent people I've met in
my life are people who've gonethrough real shit, like real
trauma, real things they had toovercome.
And then it's like when youtalk to someone, um, that never
had any issues, or at least notyet they're.
They're not deep and andthey're very.

(49:32):
Those are the superficialpeople you know, and then, um,
like you said, now it's kind oflike in america, I mean, people
are soft so soft, and that's whychina's gonna take our lunch
right.
I mean I support therapy, butit's like stop it.
Okay, you didn't get your eggs,you know, cook the way you want

(49:52):
it.
Now you're throwing a fit likeshut the fuck up, it's gonna be
okay well, people arecomplaining oh, eggs are five
dollars for a dozen eggs.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
I'm like that's less than a dollar an egg, literally
a dollar bill that you just findon the ground.
It's less than that.
If that's your problem, youhave more problems than like
politics and inflation, like youneed to like work harder or
something yeah, and they're justlike way too divided and
everyone's just talkingnegatively about each other.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
And yeah, I think when people have real problems
like a war going on, they, theyare no longer divided, everyone
is I mean, obviously the, thesides that are fighting are.
But like the people that findthemselves in that situation,
they're like, okay, how we dothis together, like how do we
survive?
Like how no one's talking aboutyou know anxiety or panic
attacks, so I know what you'resaying, but that's also called

(50:42):
survival mode yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (50:44):
Okay, we've been talking too much.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Let's talk about your relationship status.

Speaker 4 (50:48):
because we're also short on time, so I want to kind
of go through this.
Let's talk about yourrelationship history.
So when you moved to LA and thesort of you know the reality of
LA dating hitting you and whatwas that like?

Speaker 1 (51:10):
LA dating, hitting you and what was that like?
So when I got to LA, I was verymuch in my hustle zone, you
know, mode, I mean and I wasjust like, okay, how do I make
money, blah, blah.
Then I started working at OneOak and then, yeah, I did start
dating someone that I dated fora long time and I'm actually
really glad that that happened,because being in a relationship
for so long in LA kind ofprotected me from all the crazy

(51:30):
things I could have gotten intowhen I was at One Oak.
You know, like I rememberpeople would come in and then
the next day we're on a privatejet flying to Miami, you know,
and I mean thankfully it was meand my ex and the people because
they were like our clientstogether.
But I was thinking I I was likewhat if I was single during
that time?
Like I don't know how long I'dbe able to make good decisions,

(51:52):
you know.
So I'm grateful that I had thatrelationship and I learned a
lot.
Um, it wasn't um successful andI'm actually really, really
happy that I am not in arelationship right now and I'm
just working on myself and it's.
It's interesting how, when youwork on yourself and you and you

(52:15):
see your value.
Like you can have anyone youwant.
It's actually insane.
Like I get hit on more now at35 than I did back then.
Like I'll go to a festival anda billionaire will hit on me and
like people always think, oh,like you'll be expired or like
you you know nobody will wantyou.
That's not the case for me.
Like I was just in miami andyou know a very, very successful

(52:39):
guy was like trying to wife meup and literally not just have
sex.
He was like please move in.
Um.
So I think women really need tojust work on valuing themselves
and knowing their worth,without letting the society
telling them you know you're tooold or you're too to that.
Like once you really believe inyourself, like you're

(53:00):
unstoppable.
Like right now.
Um, I have two movies out.
I'm working on my third one.
I already started writing itand I'm just like no one can
stop me, like I don't give afuck who says what.
Like those people aresuperficial, they don't know me,
what they think of me is noneof my fucking business.
So if you think I'm too old fora billionaire, I don't give a
fuck because I know my value.

(53:21):
So, to answer your question.
I'm happily single by choice mynext husband will.
I mean, my next boyfriend willbe my husband, so that's why I'm
into a rush.
Um, it will be real.
I don't care how rich he is.
For me it's more important thanhe that he is a fucking real
person that I can talk to,that's not gonna go cheat on me

(53:43):
and that's not gonna go live adouble life kind of thing.
And so you know I'm chillingright now is.

Speaker 4 (53:52):
That is that why you guys broke up, oh my god.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
So I don't I don't really want to get into it too
much, but let's just say that wedidn't have a good breakup.
Um, there was just a lot goingon there, people in the
relationship, that I wasn'taware of, and you know, it's
funny how they say, likeeveryone, everyone around you
will be.
Like, well, there's no way, shedidn't know.

(54:17):
Well, it's like there is a wayI didn't know because I wasn't
doing that.
So I guess I was naive, but Imean I was not doing that, so
like I didn't think it washappening.
So, yeah, yeah, but I don'thave, I don't hold a grudge or
anything.
You know, I love my ex and Ilove my two other exes that I

(54:39):
was in serious relationshipswith, and I will always love
them and wish them well.
They, they serve their purposein my life and I'm grateful, you
know.
So there's no bad feelings oranything like.

Speaker 4 (54:50):
I wish him the best, you know okay, um how long were
you guys together?
Eight years eight years, yeah,um, and then how did you find
out?

Speaker 1 (55:05):
So it was just a DM from someone like a mutual
friend.

Speaker 4 (55:08):
From the not, but not the person.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
No, not the person.
She was actually in on it.
So that's how I didn't find outLike if I FaceTime him, he
would answer every single time.
You know, it was one of thosethings like you couldn't really
even not trust him because hewas always available, like if I
ever called, he was it wasn'tever.
Like why is he not answering,kind of thing, to give me kind
of a hint.
So but I was also like focusingon my career.

(55:36):
I was working on my movies, Iwas, you know, so I wasn't like
I have to take responsibilityfor not being what he needed me
to be as well.

Speaker 4 (55:46):
Well, let me ask you this there's always like two
people in every relationship,right?
Because you said something veryinteresting which, like it,
gives me sort of a secondthought on the subject, which is
it seems like that you, whenyou said that you didn't have a
reason to think that there wasanything going on, is because

(56:09):
you and your relationship weresatisfied, meaning that he was
doing everything that he wassupposed to do as a partner.
When he came to you, he wasgiving you what you needed, and
there was no reason for you tofeel neglected.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
Well, not really.
He wasn't giving me what everywoman needs and that's to be
seen and heard and loved.
But once you're in arelationship for so long, you
don't really see that like that.
You kind of think, oh, it'sbeen so long, it's normal.
Oh, it's been so long, like ofcourse we don't have the same
passion or we don't have thesame passion or we don't have

(56:45):
the same, but like it was okay,like it wasn't bad but it wasn't
necessarily good either.
Um, and I was really focused onmy career the last few years
and I didn't give him theattention that he needed either
or the love.
So you know, once you gothrough a, you have to take a
look in the mirror.

(57:05):
The easiest thing is to pointthe finger and be like you did
this and you did this and youdid this.
That's why I don't even likereally talking about it too much
, about what he did, because wewere in it together and there's
a lot of things that I did LikeI wasn't what he needed me to be
, me to be, um, but I mean, Iwas really heartbroken when I

(57:29):
when I found out especiallybecause you know like it was
around the same people that hewould have me around, so I was
kind of like the dummy in theroom, which really hurt you know
being around like I felt stupidand and I I kind of knew I was
like, oh my god, all thesepeople knew, like everyone knew
about me and people thought thatI was just pretending not to
know because I like thelifestyle.
But that wasn't the case.

(57:50):
And so, like, all those peopleI thought were my friends were
not my friends because they'realso hanging out with that other
person.
And then also, like, I neverblamed the woman I was not in a
relationship with her, I was ina relationship with him.
The woman I was not in arelationship with her, I was in
a relationship with him.
However, to be you know thatcool with it, to be a side chick

(58:11):
just to get some money out ofit or whatever she was getting,
is kind of crazy.
Like I can't even imagine whatshe was feeling.
So I have compassion for bothof them.
Um it, the type of people thatthey are.
It's going to take a long timefor them to be happy with anyone
ever and I have empathy andcompassion and, like I said, I

(58:33):
really did get past it.
There was a time where I waslike really heartbroken and sad.
I mean, he tried to get backwith me this whole time.
I'm not even joking Like at anypoint, if I wanted him back, I
could have had him back.
He's gonna fucking hate thispodcast, but to me it's like it
was a learning process.

(58:54):
I learned what I don't want.
I don't give a fuck what youhave.
I don't give a shit what kindof car you drive or what kind of
vacation you're gonna take meto and what kind of chanel bag
you're gonna buy me.
If you can't love me the rightway, I do not want you.
Period, that's it.

Speaker 4 (59:08):
But would you, would you also be naturally and
initially attracted to somebodywho doesn't have those those
attributes?
Because it seems to me that, as, as somebody who's made success
of her own, you, I mean, Idon't know, correct me if I'm
wrong, but would you, would yousay even high, to a guy that you

(59:31):
know doesn't come off assomebody who's on a richer end
of the spectrum?

Speaker 1 (59:37):
absolutely yes.
Uh, if you asked me this 10years ago, I would say no, I was
superficial too, which is whyhim and I got along really good.
You know, he gave me what Iwanted at the time, which was
which was?
You know, material things,gifts, bags, um, vacations.
But we'd go to maldives andwe'll pay three thousand dollars
a night for for a villa, andhe'd be downstairs on his phone

(59:59):
and I'm upstairs by myselfdrinking a coffee.
That was fine for me back then.
It is no longer.

Speaker 4 (01:00:05):
That's just not what satisfies me anymore you've
experienced that part of thelife and you no longer see value
.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
It just doesn't do it for me anymore.
So I'm just being completelyhonest, like if you asked me
this 10 years ago I'd be likeyou broke guys.
No, um, now I'm at a pointwhere it's like I'm pretty good
in my life, you know, and ofcourse you know nobody wants to
date someone broke and like takecare of them and like have to.
You know, I'm not going to dothat either.

(01:00:31):
But I also don't prioritize howmuch someone makes like I want
him to be able to, to reallylove me the right way.
I think that's number one andto be a kind, good person that
gives back to the world, to be akind, good person that gives
back to the world.

Speaker 4 (01:00:47):
so if you met like a musician who's, you know, up and
coming and still focusing onhis craft, just doesn't have the
money, you know, kind of couchsurfing but very good singer,
you know, but just well, couchsurfing doesn't sound very
attractive he just moved to lafrom ohio Ohio to go after his
dreams.
You know he's trying to figureit out head in first.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Yeah, those type of people.
I mean, they're way younger, Ithink, at this point, so they're
not really in my dating pool,got it?
What if he?

Speaker 4 (01:01:20):
used to work for Spectrum.
And then you know in Ohio andjust like Listen or he was an
electrician.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
Listen as long as he's ambitious and he's working
on something and he's givingback, I will consider him.
You know I've had multipleextremely rich men I already
told you guys the last two years.
I mean even my ex's friends,again, like everyone and I'm
like it's just does not.
It doesn't do it for me anymore, like I would love for it to do

(01:01:51):
it for me.
My life would be so much easierif I can just be a trophy wife.
Right, I wouldn't worry aboutanything.
But I can't.
You know that feeling when youlay in bed next to someone and
you feel empty have you everfelt that?
and unfulfilled not particularly, but carry on well, I felt that
and and there's no amount ofmoney that can make that better

(01:02:14):
um, did any of your ex's friendsever hit on you while you guys
were together?
Uh, yes, not.
Not like they would slide inthe dm and text me, but you know
, like at one oak they would,and they'd get drunk, they'd say
certain things, but it wasn'ttoo bad okay, so it wasn't

(01:02:35):
anything that you would have tolike bring up to him, or no,
there was nothing to that level.
Um, I mean, I had other peoplehit on me that that you know
what would make himuncomfortable, like justin
bieber, like one oak.
You know, we had everycelebrity in the books.
I mean gz, one time likefollowed me downstairs and try

(01:02:57):
to make out and I'm like callingmy ex my boyfriend that I was
like, oh my god, what do I do?
So of course, those kind ofthings would make him jealous,
but he wasn't a jealous personokay, what would he say you
should do?
he's like just tell him to leaveyou alone.
Like I don't know what else youwant me to say.

Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
Oh, thanks, cool, did that?
Did that come off as like, didthat make you unattracted to him
?
His response, his way of likesort of not standing up for you,
in a sense.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
Yes, I would want more of a protector, you know, I
would want more of not sayingget in, but he was on the phone,
right?

Speaker 4 (01:03:39):
Yeah, well, he was there, he was upstairs.
Yeah, he was upstairs.
Oh, he was upstairs, I see, Isee.
Yeah there.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
He was upstairs, yeah , he was.
Oh, he was upstairs, yeah, butthe thing is like I wouldn't
want him to like get insomeone's face and that kind of
aggression.
I mean, even that would be kindof cooler than you know, being
like I don't know what the fuckto do.
Um, but I do, I did need that.
Yeah, like to feel like morelike that I'm safe with someone,
that he's a protector, that youknow people respect him so much
that they wouldn't hit on meand things like that.

Speaker 4 (01:04:04):
It's interesting because I understand where he's
coming from, right.
Like I understand in his mindhe's thinking of himself, okay,
well, I don't want to createrift between, you know, my
relationship with this celebrityat this venue and also with
these venues owners, right.
But on the other hand, I'm alsothinking, okay, as you're as

(01:04:24):
person's partner, you have to beprotective and like you're just
kind of caught in this area ofnot knowing what the best thing
to do is for your personal self,you know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:04:37):
So I get it.
But that's why I asked thatquestion, because it's one of
those things that I feel likeyou would have had to gone
through, especially because ofyour job and his job.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
So yeah, we had a lot of that, and I think that's one
thing that we navigated prettywell um.

Speaker 4 (01:04:56):
Are you, are you into monogamy or are you, have you
done open relationships?
What are your thoughts on onthose two topics?

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
I'm more conservative , so I'm into monogamy and
complete transparency.
So if somebody's into openrelationships, I have no
judgment there.

Speaker 4 (01:05:17):
It's just not for me, okay, um, yeah so when it comes
to that, it's interesting to mebecause your career path.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
Sorry, I was in an open relationship, I just didn't
know it.
Oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:05:30):
One-sided open relationship, because nobody
told you that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
No, apparently I knew all along.

Speaker 4 (01:05:38):
But your career path is very tricky, being with
someone who's let's's say, hasthe same value system as you,
which would mean they are alsoconservative in that sense and
they would want to be in amonogamous relationship, and I
understand that you're going toprobably come back and say that,

(01:05:59):
um, oh well, you know, I'mproducing my own movies and,
like I, I'm going to write these.
But let's say, for the sake ofthis conversation, you get a
massive role and you're not awriter, you're not the producer
and all you are in this scenariois the actress, and you have to
have a sex scene or a makeoutsession, or whatever it is, with

(01:06:20):
this other actor.
How do you expect your partnerto respond?

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
so that already happened to me, and my partner
was the one that encouraged meto actually do it, because he
says it's art, I don't care.
I mean, he knew that there'snothing sexy about a sex scene.
It's absolutely not sexy.
It's awkward as hell andnobody's having fun.
Nobody's turned on.
You know, there's an intimacycoordinator on set.

(01:06:49):
There's like their pillowscoordinator.
Yeah, and then they're literallylike pillows, they're like skin
color between you.
So I mean it's not sexy.
If anything, I guess the kisscould be a problem, but I think
if that's your job, um, theother person understand, should
understand, you know, becauseit's not real, it's not like the

(01:07:12):
other person's nine out of tentimes married or in a
relationship, you know, and andit's like I remember when I had
to do my sex scene I told my exif he wanted to be on set.
He could.

Speaker 4 (01:07:23):
He didn't want to, but but how does that change the
fact that you are going to bephysically doing the thing, the
very thing that would makesomebody a cheater or make
somebody feel a certain wayabout that physical connection

(01:07:47):
that you're not supposed to behaving, because saying that
you're conservative in thatsense but then at the same time
also saying that it's just a job, it seems contradictory to me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
Yeah, well, it's not like I'm a porn star saying it's
just a job, right, becausethat's different.
They're actually having sex.
They're actually, you know,having sex for an hour with
multiple people a week.
When you're acting, you're notactually doing it, you're not
having sex.
And if there is a kiss, I meanthere's a director, there's a
producer.

(01:08:19):
It's not really like you'reconnecting with this person,
like you don't have, like youliterally come shoot and go home
and you have no connection withthis person.
There's no emotion, emotionsinvolved.
There's no like when womencheat, their emotions involved.
That's.
That's why most women, whenthey cheat, they fall in love
with whoever they're cheatingwith how many examples of actors
and actresses do you know ofthat were in committed

(01:08:44):
relationships?

Speaker 4 (01:08:44):
they started doing uh scenes together and then they
broke up with their partners tobe together a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
No, you have a point for sure, and I could like, if I
was with someone that had aproblem with that, I wouldn't do
the scenes.
I would just say like, listen,get a body, a body, double,
cause that's also possible.
You could do that.
My ex was actually verysupportive of my career and he
helped me with my movie.
He helped me a lot, so hedidn't mind Cause that was also

(01:09:15):
like partly his movie.
However, if I was with apartner that said, listen, I
don't want you doing this, Iwouldn't do it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:22):
I wouldn't do it that's respectable I think,
that's a, that's a less of acontradictory answer, because
then that way you're actually,you know, sticking with what
your um, what your morals andvalues are in the relationship,
because that's what comes first.
So, therefore, if you are in amonogamous relationship and your
partner says, hey, you know,based upon a relationship, I do

(01:09:44):
not want you to do this andyou're respecting that, then
yeah, I absolutely wouldn't doit.

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
I would put my relationship as number one, for
sure have you ever had a uhsituation where you were offered
or pressured or implied a youcan get this role if you hook up
with me, or something like that?

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
like that situation, yeah, of course, super common
yeah, uh, actually I met withthe manager a long time ago,
maybe like six, seven years ago,that asked me straight up, what
are you willing to do for rolesinterest?
And I, and I literally lookedat him.
I was like what do you mean?
Like everything.

Speaker 3 (01:10:22):
Because, because I didn't think, yeah, I was I was
thinking more like actingclasses 6 am yeah, like I'll be
the first one on set.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
I was like I'll do everything.
I was like this, I want thisreally bad.
He's like everything.
And then I kind of looked athim and I was I was like, not
like that.
No, he's like, would you havedinner with the producer?
And I'm like oh god.
So I said no, um, but would itbe easier?
Yes, yes, I would get there alot sooner.

(01:10:50):
I would.
I would have, by this point, Ialready have a lot of movies
under my belt, versus just liketwo or three.
But that's just not my road,you know, and that's I.
I say again, I don't judgepeople that choose that path.
I mean, marilyn mon Monroe, didyou know?
It's like the oldest trick inthe books.
You know, like during her timethey were calling it castings on

(01:11:11):
the couch.
You come in, you don't evenread anything, you just get on
the couch.

Speaker 4 (01:11:16):
It's interesting In that sense.
Do you think that attractivewomen have it harder than
unattractive women in the actingindustry, in the entertainment
industry?

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
I think attractive women, uh, they have pretty
privilege in a lot of ways.
Um, in life, you know, justpeople do things for you for
free all the time, like peoplefix my car for free, like
anywhere I go, people just offerthings to me.
But they also have a lot moreproblems because there's like,

(01:11:51):
most of the time somebody willwant to hook up with you in
order to to give you what youwant I guess you could say and
in in every way shape and formwould you ever give that away
for anything?

Speaker 4 (01:12:07):
give away your pretty privilege, if, if, if it meant
that you would get the gigs thatyou wanted much easier would I
give away, being pretty no,we're being honest, come on, I'm
not gonna go that far I don'tknow this, this time around, god

(01:12:29):
gave me the cute face.

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
Now I'm gonna be ugly .
Sorry, that's funny, becauseguess what?
I'll make my own fucking moviesyeah, you know you know how
many times I heard no.
And then I said one day cool,I'm gonna make my own movie, I'm
gonna invest my own money, I'mgonna find my own investor, I'm
gonna make my own story.
And that's what you do ifnobody wants to do it, nobody

(01:12:52):
wants to believe in you, andthey just want to, like, hook up
in order to give you something.
It wouldn't even feel good,though once you get it, you know
what I mean.
Like, if you got a role cheatedto get the yeah if you get the
role because you hooked up withthe producer, the director, you
don't even feel like you deserveit.
You don't even feel like what'sthe point of that?
I want to earn it and I earnedit with my hard work and I'm

(01:13:13):
going to continue to earn it andkeep making more.

Speaker 4 (01:13:19):
Do you think women should submit to their men in
relationships?
In which way, like hey, you ownme I don't know if the word
submit particularly meansownership, but I do think that

(01:13:40):
it means that the man is incharge at that point.

Speaker 1 (01:13:44):
I think that modern feminism has ruined women.
I think that the whole, likeequality, and I want to be a man
and I want to, you know, workas much as a man does, blah,
blah, blah is a whole lot ofnonsense.
We are biologically different.
We are meant to be different.
Women are meant to be different.

(01:14:07):
We are meant women are meant tobe feminine, to be in our
feminine energy, to nurture themen to, you know, support them
spiritually, to to cook for them, to just like be there for them
and take care of them and notpretend like they're the
providers.
And then you know.
So I think that when, whenwomen are in their feminine,

(01:14:28):
that's when they're the mostpowerful and that's when they're
like in their natural state.
So for me and I wouldn't saythis five years ago, but now, um
, I want to be with a man that'smore masculine, that makes the
decisions, that tells me, hey,get ready, we're going somewhere
, like that's exciting to me.
I don't decisions that tells me, hey, get ready, we're going
somewhere, like that's excitingto me.
I don't want to have to fuckingcall the restaurant, make a

(01:14:49):
reservation, figure out wherewe're going, call the travel
agent, pick up.
You know, do all these thingsthat, in my opinion, men should
do, and people can have theirown opinions, but that's my
preference.
I want a man to be as masculine.
I want him to, you know, decidefor us to tell me what we're

(01:15:09):
doing.

Speaker 3 (01:15:09):
I, I just want the man to be the man a lot of girls
are fucking it up for you guys.
I've had so many girls tell methey're like, yeah, like I want
to gotta like pay for dinner anddo all this stuff.
And all these girls are likeare making it seem like men
shouldn't do that.
It's like, no, I don't want tolike have to do all this stuff.
And all these girls are likeare making it seem like men
shouldn't do that.
It's like no, I don't want tolike have to do all this shit.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
No, I feel bad for men nowadays, like they don't
even know what to do, like theyopen the door.
It's like I got it myself yeah,there are stories like that okay
, well then I mean I guess I'mnot gonna open it for the next
girl.
So the next girl comes around,she's like he didn't even open
doors for me.
It's like, okay, well, what doI do, you know?
So I like the family dynamic.

(01:15:47):
I like man, woman and a childdynamic, um, and I think that
that's kind of more of how itshould be.
But you know, dating world isall messed up and I think
nowadays I mean especially inbig cities, la is just terrible.
But but it's possible.
My girlfriend, she's 37.
She just met a man a year agoNow they're married.

(01:16:10):
She actually has a kid.
He accepted her kid.
They're married.
They bought a house.
He's a millionaire, he's takingcare of her fully and that's
what she wanted.
So it's possible.
And he's not cheating on her.
They're together like all thetime.
It's possible to find that it'sjust um opening up and
understanding.

Speaker 4 (01:16:29):
It's there and it still exists do you think you're
gonna have uh trust?
I mean, have you been datingsince you broke up?
Yeah how's that been going?

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
uh, definitely did not want to get too close to
anybody.
You know, I had to work on mytrust issues and I'm finally
getting to a point where I feelhealed and I said earlier, we're
always healing, but I feelhealed from that situation To
the point where there's noresentment, there's no hate.
You know, now it's just love.

(01:17:01):
Like if we talked about thissix months ago, I still had a
lot of anger, so like I wouldhave said a lot of mean things
and I would have been like fuckhim and fuck this, fuck that.
Uh, now it's, it's different.
You know, I understand, um,maybe some of his reasoning and
I really do wish him well and Ithink that for my next
relationship I will be so muchbetter, like I will be finally,

(01:17:25):
like it prepared me for what Ishould be as a woman as well so
do you think your trust issuesare going to linger?

Speaker 4 (01:17:32):
I don't your next relationship, or I think?

Speaker 1 (01:17:35):
I think if I jumped into it right away, absolutely.
But because I took two years tomyself and worked on myself and
, yes, dated, but very casually,and I would tell people
straight up, I'm like a veryhonest person I'd be like,
listen, this is never goinganywhere.
If you are looking for arelationship, let's just end it
right here.
And, interestingly, men seethat as like a challenge when

(01:17:55):
you tell them that.
So all of a sudden they're likeno, no, cool, cool, we'll just
be hanging out.
Then it's like two months laterthey like sit you down and say,
listen, like I would reallylike to take this to the next
level.
I'm like I told you this is notwhat I wanted, you know.
So, anyway, I I did casuallydate, um, and worked on myself
the entire time, and I feel likenow I'm starting to be ready

(01:18:18):
for something real and I don'tthink to answer your question.
I don't think I'll have trustissues.

Speaker 4 (01:18:24):
Fingers crossed, so I've heard some women suggest
that they should have access totheir partner's phones.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
What do you think about that?
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
I mean, listen, it's obvious.
If his phone is, you know,always facing down, and if it,
and if it, and if it likevibrates, he like runs upstairs,
you might have an issue.

Speaker 3 (01:18:51):
I always put my face down.
I literally always put my facedown.

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
You might want to like wait till he falls asleep
and check that.
You know, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 3 (01:18:59):
That happened to me.

Speaker 1 (01:19:00):
But if you feel safe in a relationship, I don't I
don't have time for that.
Like I'm not trying to gothrough your phone, I'm trying
to like, enjoy life you know,what I mean and plan our next
vacation and have sex, like Idon't.
I'm not gonna look through yourphone and I don't want you
looking through mine because Imean they're private
conversations that I have withmy girlfriends about their lives

(01:19:21):
.
You know, I don't want to seeall that anyway in his phone.

Speaker 4 (01:19:27):
Okay, cool.

Speaker 1 (01:19:34):
What do you consider cheating?
Having sex with somebody elseor making out with somebody else
or having an emotional bondwith somebody else.

Speaker 4 (01:19:39):
Okay, so let's.
The first two are mutuallyagreed upon most of the time.
The third one sometimes becomestricky.
Some people agree with it, somepeople don't.
What is emotional cheating inyour view?

Speaker 1 (01:20:01):
Well, I think emotional cheating usually
involves one or two.
I mean, people don't really getemotionally attached to someone
if there's nothing going onbetween them, right?

Speaker 3 (01:20:12):
or do they so you're saying, if there's nothing
physical going on?
Yeah yeah, I think especiallygirls to guys can get
emotionally attached even ifthere's no physical part yet
what about guys to girls?
I think it's more rare.
For sure, yeah, but I think ithappens.

Speaker 1 (01:20:28):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, that one's kind of tricky
for sure.
But yeah, I think, even whenpeople cheat, I think it's less
hurtful if it's like a one-timething and then there's no
emotions involved.
Less hurtful if it's like aone-time thing and then there's
no emotions involved, and thenit's a whole different thing if
you know they care about eachother and they're like traveling

(01:20:49):
together and they actually havea life outside of your life
with him would you be more hurtif a a guy who you're dating
comes home he's like hey, I havesomething to tell you.

Speaker 3 (01:21:05):
Like I hooked up with this girl.
Honestly, it means nothing tome.
It was a bad decision.
In the moment I don't evenremember her name, I don't have
her contact information, I don'tgive a fuck about this girl, or
to hurt more if a guy came homeand said hey, um, I just want
to be honest with you.
I went out for drinks with thisgirl and I actually really

(01:21:25):
liked her, but don't worry, Ididn't do anything physical.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
I think no.
I think drinks would be lesshurtful to me.
Interesting Most girls say thedrinks one is more hurtful than
most guys say yeah, because healready crossed the line and he
cheated, because to me itdoesn't matter that it meant

(01:21:51):
nothing.
What matters is that he knewthat we're in a committed
relationship and that that woulddeeply hurt me.
So even if it's casual or hedoesn't even have her
information, he still made thatchoice.

Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
There's a clear line that he crossed that he knew was
gonna hurt you versus the otherone is kind of like this, a
little ambiguous is it wrong, isit not wrong?
What kind of depends how close?

Speaker 1 (01:22:13):
you are with this person exactly, and the fact
that he came to me and told me Iwould be like, okay, you know,
that's fine, like what made youwant to do that?
But if he just went out thereand just like cheated, that
would be a lot harder to forgive, at least for me, because you
know like I'm very open when Isay that I want a committed
relationship you know peoplethat have open relationships.

(01:22:33):
First of all, I don't know asingle open relationship that
that ended up successful in theend, I think right there's
always, you know, someone fallsin love or something happens and
like even those likepolyamorous relationships.
You know, like you're laying inbed and you're crying because
you know that somebody's likesleeping with your man at that
same time and you're supposed tobe cool with it and you can't

(01:22:54):
even say anything about it.
I think most people aren'twired that way and it just
doesn't work.
So what works usually it'seither like just being single
forever or monogamy.

Speaker 3 (01:23:04):
For me, I just think open relationships are kind of
like non-existent, like youmight as well just be yeah, yeah
, single and we're hooking up.

Speaker 1 (01:23:12):
Yeah, it's the and we're hooking up yeah, it's the
same thing Like what's the pointof being in an open
relationship?

Speaker 3 (01:23:16):
It's just like oh, it's just, you have a fuck buddy
who you also enjoy hanging outwith outside the sex.

Speaker 1 (01:23:22):
Yeah, who you take like to Christmas dinner.
It's still a fuck, buddy.

Speaker 3 (01:23:24):
Like it's kind of the same yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:23:38):
I don't really see the difference.
Why?

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
you disagree?
Oh 100, oh really, yeah.
Open relationships are the thehealthiest type of relationships
.
So why have a relationship then?

Speaker 4 (01:23:42):
why just not be single.
What is a relationship?
No, I'm asking you no, no, I'masking you what a relationship
is what a relationship with asignificant other what?
What do you define as arelationship?

Speaker 1 (01:23:54):
um a relationship is uh, what are?

Speaker 4 (01:23:59):
the criterias that would make you feel like you're
in a relationship versus youdating someone.
What's the difference?

Speaker 1 (01:24:06):
loving someone, being loved, being loyal to them and
then being loyal to me, havingcomplete um transparency and
honesty, supporting each other,you know, pushing each other to
be the best versions ofourselves okay.

Speaker 4 (01:24:22):
So an open relationship is a person you're
having all of those things with,except you're having sexual
relationship with other people,but you do not have those things
with those other people yeah,but naturally that usually
doesn't work for women becausewomen get emotionally attached
to people they're having sexwith.

Speaker 1 (01:24:43):
It's actually proven scientifically sure, um.

Speaker 4 (01:24:47):
However, not every woman is like that, so there are
women that could have casualsex and not become attached to
the person.
It doesn't mean that everysingle, but majority of the time
, you are correct.

Speaker 1 (01:24:59):
Yeah, and if you find that there's no judgment here,
go for it.
I just don't know a single onethat worked out, especially if
people want to end up, you know,with a family and have children
and then what are you going tohave, like your children be?
Oh, this is mom A, and this ismom b and c and d, oh, and
that's the fuck buddy.

Speaker 4 (01:25:17):
And then this is her fuck buddy like the problem with
monogamy and the way that it'spresented in society is that the
reason why we feel the way thatwe do towards our partner,
which is possession, jealousy,not wanting them to be with
anybody else.
Right, this is majority of thetime, out of the sense of

(01:25:43):
selfishness and also having ego.
Nobody wants to feel like,nobody wants to be hurt.
You know, nobody wants to gethurt and majority of the time,
the way that we get hurt bysomebody else is feeling like
they're gonna either leave us,or that there's somebody else
better than us, or that they'regonna share the same sort of

(01:26:05):
feelings with somebody else.
But here's the reality of lifesomebody else is better than you
, somebody else is, I mean,that's just true.
Yeah, you're not.

Speaker 1 (01:26:16):
You're not the prettiest person on the planet
yeah, but if someone loves youdeeply, you are the prettiest
person to them and what you'resaying is actually not reality.
That is your perception, that'swhat you believe.
But just because you believethat doesn't mean that's reality
what is my, my belief well, yousaid you know, for that person,
a relationship, there's alwayssomeone prettier.

(01:26:36):
That's because you look at itfrom a superficial level, from
how do you look?

Speaker 4 (01:26:41):
it's just the truth of the matter no, it is.

Speaker 1 (01:26:44):
But like if you love someone deeply and they satisfy
your needs, all of your needsand I've had this before like I
was in a committed, happyrelationship before.
The problem is we were just waytoo young.
I did not want to look atanyone else and he did not want
to look at anyone else either.
Like he didn't, his needs werefulfilled and it wasn't like he

(01:27:06):
felt like I was possessive and Iowned him.
He did not want to do thathimself.
That's the difference.
You don't own anyone in thislifetime, you know.
And then, if you get to thatpoint and you're in a monogamous
relationship, all you have todo is talk about it and if
people are decide okay, that'scool, let's open it.
I know a couple that openedtheir marriage recently.

(01:27:26):
Um, that's cool too, if that'swhat they both agree on.
You know, if that's the pointthat they get to like it, just,
it's just.
I think, more of a preference.
But to say monogamousrelationships don't work is I
don't, I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:27:41):
I mean, when you look at the divorce rate now versus
before, the reality is thatsociety has become this big pile
of comparison.
Right yeah, we have so muchaccess to the things that we
didn't have before.
Our grandparents did not haveaccess to look at.
You know what their neighborswere doing, what their friends

(01:28:02):
were doing, you know it.
Just they didn't.
They didn't have the sense offeeling less at all times.
Now we do.
You look at somebody'sInstagram page and it's
constantly like I'm comparingthis person whose photos are
uploaded to this platform towhat I'm seeing in the mirror.

Speaker 1 (01:28:22):
Yeah, but that's a….

Speaker 4 (01:28:23):
Not understanding that this person on Instagram
has the same exact face as youdo when you're looking at
yourself in the mirror.

Speaker 1 (01:28:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:28:29):
Because nobody looks like this.

Speaker 1 (01:28:31):
No, I completely agree with that.

Speaker 4 (01:28:33):
So when you feel like that, on the guy's perspective
also is the same.
They're looking at these girls.
They're like, oh damn, like she, she's so hot, right, and they
have this feeling of urges, allthese different urges.
You know, women are comparingthemselves, women are looking at
their partners and they're like, oh, you don't, you don't have,
uh, money to take me on a jet,you don't have money to take me

(01:28:56):
on a jet, you don't have moneyto take me on these trips.
All these things so the fancythings, the blings and all these
great stuff that everybodytalks about all of a sudden
becomes a part of a sense ofneed for you.

Speaker 1 (01:29:10):
For a certain type of people.

Speaker 4 (01:29:12):
Of course.

Speaker 1 (01:29:13):
Not for everybody.
Sure, I don't want any of that.
I've had a billionaire hittingon me, like three weeks ago,
asking me if I want to go on aprivate jet and pick a place in
the world.
I said no, so that's not foreverybody.
You're talking aboutsuperficial people.
You're talking about people whoget the quick fix, who get the
quick dopamine by having sex byhaving you know doing drugs.

(01:29:35):
Fix, who get the quick dopamineby having sex by having you
know doing drugs.
But but how do you feel thenext day?
Like, if you feel good, cool,go do it.
But most people don't.
Most people feel like, justlike after they do malny or they
get wasted.
The next day they feel drained,they feel why the fuck did I do
that?
They don't feel good about it.
And and sex is sacred, like whatpeople understand, and I didn't
understand this just two yearsago either You're always like

(01:29:55):
when you have sex, you areconnecting on a spiritual level
with this person, whether youknow it or not, you know and
every person you have sex withwill affect you in one way or
another.
And if people don't give a shitabout you and they're having
sex with you and they're havingsex with a million other people.
That's not a good feeling.
You're very disposable to them.
You're a toy.

(01:30:16):
I want that.
I can go home and play with mytoy.
I don't need you at all.
I want, like, a more meaningfulrelationship and I want real
love.
And guess what?
I know what you're saying istrue, because most people are
like that nowadays.
But I don't want it.
Then do you know what I'msaying?
Like, if it's, then I'm cool bymyself of my toy.
Like what am I?
What do I gain from you?
Then?
Like, what do you add to mylife if I know you're gonna go

(01:30:40):
and cheat and be with othergirls and and knowingly like,
hurt me because I don't wantthat.
I don't want open?

Speaker 4 (01:30:47):
well, yeah, if you're , if you're talking about that
you don't want it, then yeah,sure, of course it's
understandable, but then thenyour partner would be cheating
on you.

Speaker 1 (01:30:56):
But in reality, if you are in an open relationship,
there is no reason for you tofeel like of course you're being
cheated on because you knowthat your partner is going to
come back to you regardless yeah, and I agree with that, as long
as that's what you disclose inthe beginning and both agree
that you want an openrelationship.
I, I'm just saying I.
Still to this day I don't knowa single one, unless the girl is

(01:31:19):
bi where that worked out in thelong run.
I'm not monogamous.
I know like every day it's likefew and few less, but at least
I know some right, like in theMidwest.
That's funny.
Final question the size matterno, if they know how to use it,

(01:31:40):
it doesn't matter have you everencountered a microbenus?
um, yes, I have, and yeah it.
Just we didn't even proceed, um, because it just wasn't really
functioning.
So it wasn't like I was meanabout it and I said, oh my God,

(01:32:01):
what is that?
I'm not doing it.
It just didn't work.
And now when I think about it,I'm like, was that a man or was
that some kind of a surgerysituation?
Because it was weird.
But I don't think size mattersFor me.
I had the best sex of my lifewith someone who who was

(01:32:21):
probably average or belowaverage, because we have like a.
We had a really, really, reallystrong um connection, like soul
connection and love, and I wasjust like, literally I could
like have sex with them all day,every day, all the time, and
have the best sex ever VersusI've had sex with someone who
had a huge size and it justwasn't it.

(01:32:43):
So I don't think it matters.
No, unless it's abnormallysmall and nobody wants that.

Speaker 4 (01:32:49):
Well, thanks so much for coming on the show, really
appreciate it.
Thanks for having me.
You were fantastic.
There's so much more we couldtalk about.
We are short on time.

Speaker 1 (01:32:57):
This actually went on pretty long, but thanks for
having me love you guys withpodcast thank you so much.

Speaker 4 (01:33:03):
Thanks for watching.
We'll see you.

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Surviving War, One Woman's Journey of Resilience, Trauma, Trust, Transformation ft. Dajana - Ep.100

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Surviving War, One Woman's Journey of Resilience, Trauma, Trust, Transformation ft. Dajana - Ep.100