The Toxic Appeal: Why We Desire What We Shouldn't ft. Evie - Ep.105 - Unattainable Podcast Show

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My girlfriends are like my life.
That's like pretty much.
I think that's why I'm able tostay single as long as I am,
because, like my girlfriend's,literally like my life I've
never dated anyone like as aboyfriend, literally, other than
that small town I'm from.
How crazy is that?
How do you differentiate, liketrue love, and if you're anyone?

Speaker 3 (00:21):
You know, sometimes it feels like you're kissing,
like a fax machine or something.
Whereas, like Latina girls, itfeels like you're kissing, like
a fax machine or something,whereas like latina girls it's
like okay, like the kissing.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
You're like wait, she loves me tonight.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, got theriz.
No, what is riz?
Everyone keeps saying that here.
When you meet someone online,that's like pure vanity, like
you're just going, like, I likethe way you look, I like the way
you look.
Let's see if we like how welook together so you like ugly
guys with good personalitiesyeah there's a, it's a condition
, it's called geronophilia I'venever heard of
that?
Yeah, I don't think there's acure for it a lot of girls

(00:57):
really want the bare minimumthings like.
It's like when you're laying inbed and your baby's crying.
If your husband gets up to thebaby, that's a way more
important thing than coming homewith a Chanel bag that's just
going to sit in your closet.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
I mean, we dated, yeah, and then one night he
doesn't put in the effort andthat's when you liked him.
Oh no, In Fight Club, when he'spunching himself in the face.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Oh my God, that's so scary when you say that out loud
women say they want is oftenmolded by society's expectation
definitely you would say thewhen you know, you know is like
very real yeah, he'll argueagainst it.
He says that it's bullshit andlike people just like make that
up I can't date anyone because Idon't even know what I want,

(01:42):
who, who I am.
I'm saying I want this, butthen I'm not really deserving of
that yet because I'm not doingwhat that person that deserves
those things is doing.
And like there was just a lotthat I was like okay.

Speaker 5 (01:56):
I've never been a fuckwit, that is not true.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
This is definitely a lie, 100% lie.
Welcome to Unattainable.
Glad to have you with us.
I'm your host, Zach Evans,along with my co-host, Mohamed
Mollay, and first of all, thankyou to all of our listeners.
We've been getting a ton ofgrowth and engagement over the
last few weeks and we've got tothank you guys out there for
that.
Today we've got a special gueston the show.

(02:19):
This is Evie.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Hi guys, how are you?

Speaker 3 (02:21):
evie, why don't you go ahead introduce yourself to
the audience?
Uh, name what you do and yourstar sign I am evie marie.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
I'm 27, living in los angeles, but I am from
australia.
I am a tiktoker influencer,tiktoker influencer, model, the
whole lot, and I'm an aries fire, yeah yeah, I know all about
you guys yeah, we, we're wildyou guys are a fun fun.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
a bad for my mental health?

Speaker 1 (02:49):
I think is would be the best way to put it.
We're bad for our earnest world.
Don't worry about that.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah, it costs gonna cost me a lot of money in
therapy someday.
Literally, it's toxic, I thinkis the best word.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, literally, but it's okay.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
Keeps it fun.
You know, I feel like ifsomebody's not toxic at all,
it's kind of like all right,come on, give me something give
me something.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Me and my girlfriend were having this conversation
literally yesterday about how,like the graph between wanting a
nice guy but then wanting atoxic guy and trying to find
that happy medium, and it justalmost doesn't exist anymore.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
Because you want the toxic guy.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
But it's also like I find, now we're so more like
nitpicky with what attributes wewant and it seems we have so
much more access to that thatwe're like oh, I want a little
bit of toxic, but I want him tobe toxic, nice.
And then you suddenly end upwith like constantly nitpicking
everything.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
The truth is, what you want is the guy who can get
a bunch of girls because he hasthe all the attributes that get
girls.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
But then the problem with that he's gonna replace you
.
He can get all the girls, sothat's that's really so.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
Really, what girls always want is like the fuck boy
, the guy who can get all thegirls because he has those
attributes.
But you want to turn him intothe nice guy who only simps for
you I can.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
That's like every girl.
Yeah, but does that exist?

Speaker 3 (04:08):
besides me.
I don't think, I don't know ifthere's anybody?

Speaker 1 (04:12):
we'll see.
We'll see.
I find in los angeles there'sdefinitely that facade
everywhere, but does it exist?

Speaker 5 (04:18):
I mean, time will tell what are these toxic traits
that you like in a guy oh, see,my ones.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Like they are the ones that like are on the bridge
of being healthy, but then theyenter toxic.
So it's like I like a guythat's, you know, got ground and
is like controlling.
But then it's like, to whatdegree is that fine?
So it's like, oh, I don't wantyou to go there.
And I'm like, oh, okay, I won'tgo there.
But then it's like, to whatdegree is that fine?
So it's like, oh, I don't wantyou to go there.

(04:46):
And I'm like, oh, okay, I won'tgo there.
But then it's like, suddenlyyou get to a point in the
relationship you're like, wait,I'm not allowed to go anywhere.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
So it's like finding that middle ground and it's like
why can't I like my malecousin's graduation pictures?

Speaker 1 (05:02):
oh my gosh, please tell me that's not happened to
you.
I was gonna say that's a wholenew level of but, but I have
dated a lot of latina girls inthe past who can be um?

Speaker 3 (05:12):
it's kind of.
Actually it's kind of similar,because latinas are typically
great dancers, best in bed, butlike even great kisser like
white girls, you know, sometimesit feels like you're kissing,
like a fax machine or something,whereas like Latina girls it's
like, okay, like the kissing isalways good.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
You're like, wait, she loves me tonight.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's also a very
jealous culture which by the way.
I don't blame Latina girls,because the reason it's a
jealous culture is becauseLatino men typically cheat a lot
.
It's like very common.
Like one of my friends, hemoved to Mexico.
Yeah.
When I was in high school, hemoved back in college, and so

(05:56):
he's been there for like fiveyears.
Yeah.
And I was dating this girl andhe was like oh, do you cheat on
her yet?
Oh my gosh, but he said it inthe most casual way, as if it
was just normal, like of coursewe cheat on her.
It was like.
It was like very eye-opening me, like culture-wise, and I've
talked to a lot of latina girlsand they say the same thing.
They're like, oh yeah, like inmexico and south america.

(06:16):
It's just like there's a muchhigher prevalence, even I think
you're narrowing that down.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
I think that's all men.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
Really.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, unfortunately what about the simps.
No, even the simps.
The thing is I was in arelationship for five and a half
years and I was in thisrelationship bubble so I had no
real idea of the single world.
Then, when I went out for thefirst few times, you see people
that you've known for ages inrelationships or like randoms

(06:49):
and stuff like that.
You become single and you see awhole nother side to men and
like the guys you thought werelike the loyal, amazing guys are
not and like I'm still yet tojust meet someone that's like
fully down, loyal for their girlyeah

Speaker 3 (07:06):
it's so sad I think I'm the only one actually left.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
Oh, you're like, wait , I'm the road to be fair.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
To be fair, I'm a recovering fuck boy.
I used to be very toxic back inmy villain era.
But, um you know, now I've kindof changed my ways.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
So how did you turn that around?
You get to a point Please givea really good speech right now.
How you?

Speaker 3 (07:31):
turn this around.
So in high school I was theloser simp nerd guy.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Right, I love that though.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
You would have not talked to me in high school.
I promise you.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
See, no, okay, everyone says this to me and
it's such a like facade, becauseI love the quiet nerdy guy,
because that's the one that'slike they do, because they're
not looking at like achievingsomething, because they think I
can't even get this, so they'rejust like so sat back I'm gonna
tell you about something.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
Every time a girl tells me they like nerds, every
girl likes fake nerds.
Every girl oh yeah, I lovenerds.
Show me your boyfriend.
She shows me.
I'm like this is just a malemodel with glasses, this is just
like a guy with a six-pack andI want to show you my ex, but I
don't have my phone so he wasthe real nerds you will never

(08:22):
was real the real nerds you willnever meet, because if they
leave their basement for morethan three hours, their mom
might come downstairs and cleanup the game.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Those are the real nerds.
So was this you in high school?

Speaker 3 (08:33):
I mean not that bad, but kind of like I had very low
social awareness, you know.
Yeah.
So then, friend zone rejectedevery girl.
Oh, it's Zach.
You, any girl would be so luckyto have you, but not me, but
any other girl would be so lucky.
Go to the next girl.
Oh, any girl would be so luckyto have you, but not me, but any

(08:53):
other girl.
And it happened so many times Istarted to figure out.
Maybe I should look in realityinstead of what girls are
telling me yeah when someonetells you the sky is green.
So many times and every time youlook outside and the sky is
blue and you're like who is thishot girl dating fuck boy?
Who's this hot girl dating fuckboy, fuck boy, fuck boy, fuck

(09:15):
boy?
And eventually you say, hmmwait, maybe there's a pattern
here.
So then I became a huge fuckboy and just was like that was
the solution.
Well, to be fair, I was aprofessional fuck boy.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
What deems a professional fuck boy?
What attributes is that?

Speaker 3 (09:33):
So these amateur fuck boys nowadays, right With the
little dangly earring from Timu.
Yeah.
The TikTok hair.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Are they?

Speaker 3 (09:43):
pulling, are they?
What Are they pulling yeah?
Some of those guys pull.
Oh wow, okay I know girls thathave fucked a dude with a bed
that touches two walls, like apoor person who doesn't know
what the fuck a nightstand iswith no headboard.
No, they got, they've got alltheir furniture off TikTok shop.

(10:04):
They have three-in-one shampoo.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
They drink coffee out of a cereal bowl because them
and their four roommates haven'tdone dishes since 2023.
I'm guessing it kind of likerewinds back to what you were
saying where they like verycharismatic or funny.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, yeah, they're good looking.
You know they got the riz.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
What is riz?
Everyone keeps saying that here.
It's kind of like uh it's charmgame, but jay-z charm and game
okay, yeah okay, you can likepull tricks with your words okay
, so you had riz, got the rizgoing I got the riz and then I
got rich.
So I was like you're like, waitnow, I'm unstoppable.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
No, no, it's like I got all the infinity stones, you
know, yeah you're like wait,now I have everything.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
It means I like read this book actually and it was
saying to be a man, you need toknow who you are, what you are,
what you make and how other menperceive you no, that's gay what
it actually is you need looks,you need looks, you need um riz
and you need money slash status.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
Those are the three categories and you need two out
of three right, yeah like ifyou're, if you're rich and good
looking, you don't really haveto have riz.
Like yeah chicks on your boatif you're like funny and good
looking.
You don't have to be richbecause, like you're funny and
good looking yeah so, like you,just gotta have two out of three
but.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
But got to pick your poison.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
Explain your theory, yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Which one?

Speaker 3 (11:28):
The one you just said .
You need four things as a guy.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Know yourself who you are.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
What you do, what you make and how other males
perceive you.
So I guess it's likemasculinity as well in yourself
as being like secure, Becauseeven though your things you said
I feel like a lot of men thathave those qualities are in fact
actually still very insecure.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
But they still get chicks.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, but that's not like the whole point of life.

Speaker 3 (11:57):
Oh yeah, of course, I thought you were going to say
something.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, it is.

Speaker 5 (12:02):
It is for.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Zach, yeah, I was going to say.

Speaker 3 (12:05):
Technically, actually from an evolutionary
perspective perspective,everything we're doing is
designed to survive andreplicate I know I find the
layout here I am right I findlike um my theory works yeah

Speaker 1 (12:17):
but like I find out here, it is really crazy like
women just rule everything likethey want, like the girls on the
table, they want the girls atthe venues, they want the girls
at the games and all these kindof things, where like australian
culture is kind of like if theboys are going out and getting a
table, they're like please keepthe girls the fuck away from us

(12:38):
, like we're with our guys, likeit's just not like that in
australia at all la, um, so soI'm white, straight male, right?

Speaker 3 (12:47):
so my privilege and I'm, and I'm a pisces, so my
privilege is like oh sensitivethe fuck by the way I identify
as a leo, so please refer to meby my pronouns.
You're like, I changed myactually please refer to me by
my adjectives, which are smart,successful, rich, funny,
attractive, tall.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Smart, funny and attractive yeah, all right,
smart, funny and attractive,yeah, even my mom said so.
It's definitely true smart,funny and attractive.
How's your day going?

Speaker 3 (13:15):
amazing um but there's one privilege that still
beats me and that's prettyprivileged yeah, it is
unstoppable.
I mean for me to get on aprivate jet.
I gotta work for like 25 yearsof my life like ignore my wife
and kids and trash thatrelationship, like wake up at 6

(13:36):
am every day.
Maybe I can get on a privatejet yeah if you're a hot girl,
one dm, a single dm.
Game the fuck over, and you caninvite all your friends too
yeah, but it's a private jet,it's a plane.
Catch me in 33a I'll get intothe same spot.
Don't gaslight me if someoneinvited.

Speaker 5 (13:57):
If someone invited you on a private jet tomorrow,
you would definitely go dependswhere I'm going anywhere I mean,
they're not gonna take you on aprivate, you would fly to palm
springs on a private jet for noreason, just to go have lunch
and then come back well,currently, right now, I'm going
to palm springs in two days in arental car with five of my

(14:19):
girlfriends I'm going to palmand I would not trade that for
the jet.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
You know what?

Speaker 3 (14:23):
so, while you're there, there's actually this
small little festival that'sgoing on right now in LA.
Yeah, it's called Coachella.
We're going to be there, youshould definitely come.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
What's it called?

Speaker 3 (14:34):
Coachella.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
Coachella, it's actually the name of a town but
it's like a little festival.
I'm kidding I don't know ifaustralians like understand the
world no, oh my god, I don'tknow your education system that
is crazy.
I literally every time I comehere and I like make one of
those jokes, I'll be like, oh,apple, like we don't have that.
And they're like what you don'thave, apple.
I'm like what the fuck do youguys think's going on down there

(14:56):
?

Speaker 3 (14:56):
no, I know, I know you got.
You guys are a first worldcountry, so you don't use
androids like yeah, like the oh,I was in miami um the
photographer.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
We were with thought that australia was a third world
country I was like sorry.
He's like, oh, like it's socool you're out here and I was
like what sorry?

Speaker 3 (15:13):
wait, wait, wait, but are you from sydney or
melbourne?

Speaker 1 (15:16):
oh my god, I'm not from either.
I'm from gold coast.
So gold coast australia is likethe mimic of Miami.
So basically, australia doesn'treally have anything.
That's kind of laid out itself.
It's kind of all mimics ofthings, and Gold Coast is like
Miami.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
I see.
Like the layout Because what Iheard is we have some friends
from Australia.
Yeah.
And the Sydney people say thatMelbourne's ghetto.
And then the Melbourne peoplesay Sydney, melbourne's ghetto.
And then the melbourne peoplesay sydney's like uptight and no
fun is that pretty accuratemelbourne, yeah, is new york, la
is sydney, gold coast miami I

Speaker 1 (15:57):
see I see yeah, so those are like the timu versions
of what we have here, yeah,okay, perfect, and it's like so
chill, like everything, and likeour lockout laws are like 2 am,
like in gold coast.
Our venues close at like 10 pm,like it's all very, very chill.
So you come out here and it'slike such a shock really la

(16:20):
closes 2 am.
Well, there's always afterparties yeah, you guys love like
your little house shindigs Iknow yeah yeah, like we're all
like I'm like sitting in a house, I'm like what are we doing
here?
Well, what?

Speaker 3 (16:31):
happened is over covid, um, oh, so before covid.
Like the clubs, you saw theclubs right, but the club no, I
had never.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
Oh, you haven't been.
Yeah, you should definitelycome out sometime um no, no,
I've been now, but I hadn't beenpre-COVID.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
I see, I see what basically happened is the clubs
kept fucking everybody over.
Like if you buy a bottle at theclub, like the experience is
horrible, like you, basicallyyou buy a bottle, they take
forever to bring it out.
Then they have little bullshitfees entertainment fee, tax,
service fee.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
And then the waitresses try to get you to tip
more on top of the tip that'sincluded, and it's a shitty
experience.
So actually this is a perfectopportunity for me to ask this
because I've never been in asetting where I can just sit and
ask this yeah, how much is itto buy one bottle with all the
services, all the tips, all thatone bottle?

Speaker 3 (17:20):
cheapest one is typically five hundred dollars
with tax.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Okay, that's actually no, no, but tax tip,
entertainment fee, bullshittaxes.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
It's like 800 something usd yeah oh okay,
that's actually not too bad butthat's not for the table, that's
for one bottle how much is atable?
I mean it could be anywherefrom 2k to like 40k, depending
like how 40 000 better than mewhat's the most expensive table?

Speaker 5 (17:48):
well, the most expensive table I've ever seen
is like 15 grand.
Well, it depends where you'regoing like.
If you're if you're atcoachella, obviously it's like
different, but if you're justgoing to the club in la, it's
like 4k 40 000 on a table isactually diabolical.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
That gives me anxiety .

Speaker 5 (18:11):
I've seen people spend like $250,000, $300,000,
just not even blink, which isjust like crazy.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
You know People got money here, no, but I would look
at that person and be like whatare you doing?
Like that is a house deposit,that is a car.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
I wonder if he impressed the girl he was trying
to impress, though that wouldnot impress, car I wonder if he
impressed the girl he was tryingto impress, though that's the
really that would not impress me.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
I'd be like what are you doing?

Speaker 3 (18:28):
I mean so like this guy's irresponsible.

Speaker 5 (18:29):
Yeah, I would literally, like you can make
better life decisions right nowthere are kids right now that
are, that have parents that arebillionaires and they'll just
like go out and spend thatcredit card.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Like there's no tomorrow.
That is wild to me.

Speaker 5 (18:48):
So you have kids don't you me didn't you say, you
had kids?

Speaker 1 (18:49):
no hell, no kids not that he knows of you were saying
before that you get the latinas.
Someone's gonna come to yousoon.
Be like hey, oh, wait, rewind,yeah.
What was your um advice you hadfor men to turn into men?

Speaker 3 (19:09):
you said you started as a nerd oh, yeah, so I turned
into a fuck boy.
Yeah, um, there's two routesyou can take.
Yeah, some people just stay inthat phase their whole life,
even when it gets played outright.
Yeah, um, and some people likeme eventually just fuck enough
girls that you're kind of likeall right, what am I gonna do?
Go fuck another girl which islike fun.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
That's a really beautiful awakening.
Not what age does that happen?

Speaker 3 (19:36):
I realized it actually one night.
Actually I was in vegas andthere's this girl I was talking
to and in Vegas the clubs closeat like 4 or 5 am, right, so we
leave at like 4 am.
And then she's like oh, I'mhungry, right in Vegas, the the
we're at Wynn Encore, so there'sno fast food so we go to this
little like sit down place,waiter's taking forever, the

(19:56):
check's taking forever.
We get out like it's like 5, 5,30 am I'm.
I don't do coke.
So I'm like dead tired at thispoint and I remember getting
back to my place and justthinking I would honestly rather
sleep than fuck this girl.
But it's like I put in so muchtime, it's like, well, I kind of
have to do it now oh my god, Ican't even imagine like but you

(20:19):
put in that much effort, it'slike what am I gonna do now?
just go to sleep and like yesbut respect your buddy's wishes.
No, but after that day then Iwas like, let me respect my
body's wishes.
At like 1 30 am, yeah insteadof like dragging on getting no
sleep, getting no work, then thenext day, and it just got.
It got less exciting when it'slike you wake up, this yo, I

(20:43):
just fucked this hot girl.
Yeah, you realize, nobodyreally gives a fuck no, no, your
friends don't really care yeah,bro, good job like.
Yeah, here's your instagram dude, she's so hot.
Who cares what actually gotdone at the end of the day?
Exactly, but I also my biggestthing that I get so concerned
with people that do that yeah ismy perception of it would be

(21:04):
how do you differentiate liketrue love and fucking if you're
fucking anyone, well, you don'twant to know the real answer to
this question, because I don'twant to ruin love for you.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
But, like I, my mom says this all the time.
She was like you still havefaith in like the fairy, like
tail, and it's not happeningit's not that love doesn't exist
, it's just.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
Love is a purely biological, physiological
process by which repeatedexposure to the feelings of
validation from somebody else inyour peer group anchors those
emotions so strongly to thatperson that the mere thought of
that person elicits heightenedlevels of dopamine and serotonin
and in the neural pathways ofyour prefrontal cortex.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
That's what love is I feel, though, that, like, the
main reason love is not how itis anymore is like, back in the
day, a man would only see like ahot chick once a month, or
maybe once every two months, atlike an actual venue where now
it's just so accessible, andit's like you have a fight with
someone and within 20 minutes,you can go and message a heap of

(22:16):
people like 20 people.
You get three replies oh, theseare three girls that want me,
and then that makes them thinklike, oh, okay, I don't need
this situation, instead of likeworking it out.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
Here's how I know that what you said is true
actually.
Yeah.
So I'm from Wisconsin, right?
Yeah, there's not a lot of hotpeople in Wisconsin.
Yeah.
We're actually the number onedairy state in the world.
Yeah.
So there's a lot of cows inWisconsin, if you know what I'm

(22:54):
saying so because of that it'slike guys will find some girl
who's like you know a six and ahalf or whatever, and it's the
best they've ever seen.
You've never seen another girlexcept on the t the television
that's hotter than the six and ahalf.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
They're like well shit might as well get married.
I might as well.
That's unachievable, yeah.
Sex forever, yeah with like 6.5.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
Otherwise I'm gonna have to, like you like, like, go
to the bar and hope to getlucky with like a three.
Yeah, you know, just to like,because I have needs to be met
and I think and people neverframe it like that, but I really
think that's what goes on in alot of people's minds 100, 100.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
That's what happened then.
Now it's like there's all thisaccess and you can actually the
girl he saw on tv.
You can message her now dm heryeah, you can literally be like
wait, maybe I have a chance withsomeone like this, or maybe I
can have a chance with the timuversion of that one.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
Like there's so much access, you just steal my timu
joke yeah, literally we've donea full circle you're like
plankton, trying to steal myformula but it's even like I've
um seen these things.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Like I don't know if you saw, I forget who did it.
It was a skit and it wassomeone talking about um, when
tiger woods had like cheated onhis wife, and they were saying
like it's so.
Like someone was talking aboutsaying like that's horrible,
like how could he do that?
Blah, blah, blah.
And it was like this randomperson from this random place

(24:11):
and he was like it's easy foryou to not cheat.
No one's trying to fuck you,you've got no.
Yeah, literally, where it'slike tiger woods, he's got so
many options.
It's like, oh, you only cheatedthat many times, but it's just
access.
But I still believe in truelove.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
How's that working out for?

Speaker 5 (24:29):
you, have you ever been in love?

Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yes, I definitely have.
But again, it was when I wasreally young so I haven't really
been in love as an adult orwhen I kind of liked the person
I was like now I'm like verycomfortable with who I am and
like I know what I want, I knowwhat I want to give.

(24:52):
So even like when I see I wasin love, there was like a side
of me that I'm like was Ibecause I didn't even know who I
was where?
It was like that was just kindof working at the time.
But I haven't had a boyfriendin like even know who I was
where.
It was like that was just kindof working at the time.
But I haven't had a boyfriendin like two and a half years now
how old are you?

Speaker 5 (25:08):
27 and why haven't you had a boyfriend?

Speaker 1 (25:12):
I don't know, I don't date, I don't do that are you
on the haps no, I'm not youdon't date.

Speaker 5 (25:20):
No, why don't you date?

Speaker 1 (25:21):
because the idea of like going and sitting somewhere
and potentially not like vibingor ending up in the same like
vicious cycle I just go, oh, orI could just like stay in, or I
can go hang with my girlfriends,but then I want a husband.
But then the guys that areasking to go on the dates, I'm

(25:42):
like you're not a husband goingto the clubs, yeah literally.
But like I've met really reallygood guys you're like well,
where are they then?

Speaker 3 (25:55):
um show me the receipts um.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
How's that?
Going receipts I've met reallygood guys out on like whims and
the thing is like when I meetsomeone, I need it to be organic
so that I can tell it's likechemistry.
Because when you meet someoneonline that's like pure vanity,
Like you're just going like Ilike the way you look, I like
the way you look.
Let's see if we like how welook together.

Speaker 5 (26:21):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (26:23):
Sure, and then.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
And then, well, that's why I don't date.

Speaker 5 (26:27):
But I don't understand you.
You said you meet peopleorganic.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
You've never met somebody organically no, I have,
but not dated them because, itjust never really goes anywhere.
I find like it's justespecially out here the way that
kind of people operate is.
It's so just like move, move,move move and I find like I've

(26:52):
just never really met someonesince I was in a relationship
that I was like, okay, this isworth putting in like the energy
and the effort for.

Speaker 5 (27:00):
It just sounds like you're not a very sexual person.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, I'm not really okay, because like I feel, when
you're like a woman, it's veryscary that that can be something
that people are purely comingto you for.
So then it's kind of like tofeel safe.
You need that emotional andthen to feel that connection.
Yeah, you need to really likethe person, know that's like

(27:25):
they're there for the rightreason, they're not just trying
to stick it in I see so.

Speaker 3 (27:30):
So you more, so don't go for looks, you more, so, go
for personality 100, 190 if like.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
After this, because I know you're clocking me right
now, I'm going to show you myexes.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
I actually don't go so you like ugly guys with good
personalities?
Yeah, there's a, it's acondition, it's called
geronophilia I've never heard ofthat yeah, I don't think
there's a cure for it.
I mean, you'll be fine, yourancestors are going to be, or
your, your bloodline is going tobe you're like you're ruining
that and I do.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
I want to get married .
I want to have kids.

Speaker 5 (28:00):
Yeah so it seems like the problem is most of the not
so attractive guys are avoidingyou because you're way out of
their league.
And the guys who are very goodlooking are actually coming up
to you, but you don't like them.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, they're good looking 100% and it's funny I
like was having this, I havethis conversation actually so
much.
Someone will be like to you, oh, I'm not gonna get your drink
because everyone's probablybuying your drink, so I don't
want to tell you a good looking,because you get that every day,
but everyone thinking that noone then does anything except
for the ones with like massiveegos and then you miss out on

(28:39):
like this big gap here doesheight matter?
yes, I, I have dated a guy thatwas shorter than me and I think
that comes with like energy.
Like you know, he still hadvery masculine energy and like
when we stood together you couldstill tell like that was a
manly man.
But conventionally I'm verytall, like I'm 5, 11.

(29:02):
So like ideally, height wouldbe amazing, so that I feel
feminine, because I also love mystilettos.
But it's not the be all, endall did it feel weird kissing
down no no no, it actuallydidn't like.
I genuinely like, didn't thinkof it.
All my friends like what thefuck is going on right now I

(29:22):
have a.

Speaker 4 (29:23):
I have a friend who's six one yeah, a girl girl yeah
and she always comes to me forlike relationship advice zach
what is?

Speaker 3 (29:31):
this guy's thinking blah, blah, blah she's gonna
have nba babies she would alwaysdate basketball players, nba
players like not the famous ones, but like the ones in the nba.
Yeah, they're still there.
Yeah, they're still there likethey're still like g league
maybe, yeah, um, and finally oneday she was like zach, I'm sick
of getting fucked over.
I don't care about height,looks, money, none of that stuff
.
I just want a guy, greatpersonality who loves me and a

(29:54):
connection, right, yeah.
So she starts dating this shortdude like five, seven maybe
yeah so she's six, one withheels, I mean, she's towering
over him like Shrek, you knowwhat?
I mean.
Yeah, but good looking guy,successful, charismatic,
everything else right.
Three weeks later I was like yo, is Dave coming out tonight?

(30:15):
I actually like the guy.
He was like kind of cool.
Yeah.
And she was like, yeah, whathappened to that?
I was like what happened?
So apparently she had a coupleglasses of wine yeah and he
comes over to her place and sheopens the door, she gives him a
hug and she said zach, I pickedhim up I manhandled him and then

(30:36):
she said I spun him around andI watched his little legs go
like this and she was like howtall was he?

Speaker 1 (30:42):
five, seven oh my gosh and she was like zach.

Speaker 3 (30:46):
I lost all respect for him as a man in that moment
that's.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
That's so much shorter than me, wow and I was
like, I get it and she's six oneyou could have d1 athletes yeah
, you're gonna have some littleoompa loompa, leprechauns
running around oh, but she mighthave loved him.
I feel like we keep doing thislittle cycle of maybe like wait,
wait but, maybe maybe disneymovies are true.
Yeah, literally yeah but wait,so they.

(31:13):
That was the end of it that wasit game over oh my god, that's
crazy so it sounds like youmostly like more dominant men
yes, with very um strongpersonalities well, I think for
me, like when I'm not with a guy, I naturally am like quite

(31:33):
masculine and dominant, like Ihave like my way, I like to do
things and like I love structure, I love routine and like, even
with my girlfriends, like I'llhave like very masculine energy
with them, like I loveorganizing everything, taking
them out, doing that for them.
So when I have like a man in mylife, I like to like really let

(31:54):
my walls down, like I like tolike you lead the way, kind of
thing, because it's like finallymy time to like be feminine
interesting.

Speaker 3 (32:03):
You seem like the, the to like be feminine
interesting.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
You seem like the the leader of your girlfriends are
you the sinker, the singlesinker?
What's that?

Speaker 3 (32:11):
so I don't know if you know this, but when a bunch
of girls hang out together, yeah, a lot their periods sync up to
whoever the oh my god.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
No, this is real, this is science.
I know it's real.
Yeah, you might be the sinker,the master sinker.
Oh my God, hello everyone.
Sorry, no, I, my girlfriends,are like my life.
That's like pretty much.
I think that's why I'm able tostay single as long as I am
Cause like my girlfriend'sliterally like my life.

Speaker 3 (32:39):
I'm assuming they're not.
You didn't meet them in LA?

Speaker 1 (32:41):
No, so you didn't meet them in la.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
no, so the girls I'm with at the moment there's five
of us, we're all australian okay, most of my girlfriends out
here are australian good luck inla with that why it's very
difficult for girls to meetfriends why, um, girls are very
competitive here becauseeverybody's moving here to be a
model, an actress, a singer yeahso it breeds this competitive

(33:04):
environment.
And on top of that, all right,have you heard of group chat
theory?
No, all right, that's because Imade it up but this is crazy.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
You're like wait, like is it trending yet?

Speaker 3 (33:16):
this um girl I used to date.
We had a really bad like ohduring the relationship.
Um we, she would tell me she'dbe like zach, just so you know.
Every group of girls has agroup chat.
But what people don't know isthere's always a second secret
group chat that has the coremembers of the first group chat
and they all talk shit about thefirst group chat.

(33:38):
Do you have a second group chat?

Speaker 1 (33:41):
no, all right.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
She also said if you don't have a fucking horrible
she also said if you don't havea second group chat oh my god,
maybe I'm the, maybe I'm not inthe second group but it gets
crazier.
So we had a really bad breakup,like a really bad falling out,
and she had at the same time, afallout with like three of her
close girlfriends.
So I'm talking to one of hergirlfriends about it, oh god,

(34:04):
and we're venting.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Why?
Why were you talking to one ofthe girlfriends about this?

Speaker 3 (34:07):
is back in my toxic era.
Yeah, yeah, not anymore, andI'm very shy and romantic.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Oh, I just need to like consolidate with someone.
Yeah, you knew her yeah, it was.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
I was trying to help her out.
Oh yeah, I actually considermyself somewhat of a
philanthropist in this situationyeah, yeah, I'm getting that
vibe so um not all heroes wearcapes check this out.
It gets crazier.
So I asked the girl.
I was like yo.
Just you know, they have thissecond secret group chat that
they're talking shit about youfucking shit stirrer but guess

(34:37):
what happened?
she starts laughing, but notlike a normal like person laugh.
It was like a evil, like anevil genius, like maniacal laugh
.
I was like what happened?
She's like what they don't knowis there's a secret, secret
third group chat that talks shitabout the second group chat,
that talks shit about the thirdgroup chat.

(34:58):
And I'm like girls have like aflow chart of like who's toxic
to who, who's talking shitbehind their back like it's an
entire operation but how do youkeep up with that?

Speaker 1 (35:10):
I don't know like that's what I'm saying.
It's going to be difficult foryou to find friends here
honestly, I feel like, though,at the age I am now, I'm not
really looking to like make manynew friends, I'm like really
happy with my girl group there'sonly so much time to go around
when you have what?
What do you mean?

Speaker 5 (35:28):
I'm just saying there's if.
If you're a career girl and yougot shit going on in your life,
yeah, there's only so much timefor so many people oh my god, I
thought you mean like thetimeline of like me expiring,
like we were talking aboutearlier and I was like stop
bringing it up.
It sounds like you think you'reexpiring yeah, well, 30 is
coming soon.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Uh-huh, which is scary is it?
It's funny I was well, I stillam.
I feel like I'm very scared toturn 30.
But then a lot of mygirlfriends that are 30, like I
see them and they're still soyoung, so beautiful, thriving,
still following their dreams andstuff.
So I feel that's calming mynerves.

(36:09):
And they said, once you hit 30,you're like, oh, I've hit it
and it's all just like normalagain from there.

Speaker 5 (36:18):
So I feel like that's going to happen.
What happens if you're stillsingle and 40?

Speaker 1 (36:22):
I really hope that's not the case, Mo.
But what happens if?
It is I would get a cat.
No, I wouldn't get an animal.
I would get ivf and have a babyalone in my little apartment in
australia very, veryindependent of you yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
Or just find a guy who's into that.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
Into what?
Just giving me a kid.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
No, a lot of guys like dinosaurs.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
But I feel like that's what I just, I truly
think by like 40, it would beeven harder to date, Actually.

Speaker 5 (37:02):
no, maybe it gets easier because no one's in the
scene, but wait are you guysboth single

Speaker 1 (37:09):
uh, I mean, we're all single, oh oh, there's someone
watching this right now, goingfuck that guy I got blasted in
this facebook group so I'll know.
I'll ask you the question againare you single?

Speaker 3 (37:21):
I mean technically yes oh, you are now when someone
watches that live stream.

Speaker 5 (37:30):
Yeah, literally someone's gonna watch that and
be like fuck you I mean chancesare, by the time this comes out,
he is so.
You never know wait.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
What's your longest relationship?
Three and a half years.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
Right, here's my first one have you heard of, uh,
the three loves theory?
No, so everybody has threeloves in their life?
Yeah, um, you have your firstlove that you think is going to
last forever, because you don'tknow any better yeah, I have
that one, your second will.
Love is like the, the toxic lovethat just breaks you and forces
you to learn the tough lifelessons.

(38:00):
And then your third love isyour soulmate, after you've
learned all your lessons fromthe first two.
Now you really understand whatyou want in a relationship and
in a partner, and that's whenyou really find your soulmate.
But the second love has toprepare you for the third love
right so people think they canjust skip to the third one.
But they forgot to do thesecond one right I, I don't know

(38:22):
.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
I don't know about that theory because I've had
five toxic relationships.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
You're stuck in the middle.
You have to get to the thirdone.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
I've had five long-term relationships, so my
first one was three years, mysecond one was a year, my third
one was two and a half years.
Fourth one was two years.
Last one was five and a halfyears so you're a relationship
slut yeah, like wait what?

Speaker 5 (38:48):
how does that math even work?

Speaker 1 (38:49):
I know, since I was 14 that doesn't count no, she.

Speaker 3 (38:53):
I think she does it at multiple relationships at the
same time, without them knowing.
Oh my gosh, boost her stats upno, I always just like.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
so my grandparents have been together since I was
14, and then my parents weretogether, so I I had this
perception Because I grew up ina small town in Australia.

Speaker 5 (39:11):
Sure, but regardless of your upbringing and where you
were raised, a 14-year-oldrelationship is not a
relationship.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
Oh my God, it felt it .

Speaker 5 (39:22):
For who?

Speaker 1 (39:23):
Me.
I was so in love okay, allright.

Speaker 5 (39:27):
So so that that first one was how long you said so
that was three years three years, okay, so you're 17 now.
Then you're dating somebodyelse immediately.
Yeah, until what?
Yeah, a year, okay, thatdoesn't count either.
And then, and then 18, okay, sothe first two are bullshit.
And then what?
And then what do you got after?
18 two years so you startimmediately after that you

(39:48):
started dating somebody else.
Okay, that is exactly why yourrelationships are bullshit.
So so, 18, you start datingsomebody for two years until 20
no, we've got to go back.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
So 13 through to 16, 16 through to 18, 18 through to
20, 20 to 22, and then the lastone, I finished, was at 25 so 22
.

Speaker 5 (40:12):
Then you start dating somebody else until five years
for 25, yeah so.
So every single one of theserelationships are back to back
pretty much how are you breakingup and then going to another
relationship immediately?

Speaker 1 (40:24):
where I lived.
It was like small town so itwas like everyone knew everyone.
It was like in the scene kindof stuff, so you just would meet
people extremely fast and itwas like everyone was coupled up
.
It was very normal.
And then I feel, once I leftthat relationship and kind of
started traveling, I saw thatlike that obviously was not how

(40:49):
it was.
So even like, for example, mylast boyfriend that I was with
the longest until I was like anadult, we were in a city but we
were both from that small town.
So I've never dated anyone,like as a boyfriend literally,
other than that small town I'mfrom.
How crazy is that?

Speaker 5 (41:10):
that is great I know, okay, so so then the, the, the
five.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Are you single?

Speaker 5 (41:17):
I'm married okay so the the five-year relationship
that you're, you were in yes the.
Would you consider that the,the one you would say, is your
biggest love, or not?

Speaker 1 (41:32):
yes and no.
So I met him.
He healed kind of all the partsI needed healing at that time,
like I came from a badrelationship that like I needed
someone to kind of just show methat like kindness and like soft

(41:54):
love existed.
But in hindsight, after likeleaving it, it was kind of very
like, just very normal.
There was nothing that wasactually super incredible.
Also, we were dating.
I feel like a lot of people canrelate to this.

Speaker 5 (42:10):
We were dating during covid I mean covid wasn't five
years no, I know, but it wasthree years.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
So it was like everyone was just, I feel like
everyone like got cuffed up orlike stayed in their
relationship because it was likewhat was the point in leaving?

Speaker 3 (42:27):
yeah, well, a lot.
Because, covid, I don't know ifyou know this, but it actually
um influences you.

Speaker 4 (42:32):
You actually lose your taste and I know a lot of
girls who just lost their tastein men as well.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
Some of these dudes they were dating, I was like
this motherfucker.

Speaker 5 (42:41):
He still gets the hiccups like what the fuck oh so
was that guy, uh, your lastboyfriend, the one who was
controlling?

Speaker 1 (42:49):
no, the one before that yeah, okay, no, my last one
.
He was very beautiful, verychill.
We had a very like nocontrolling at all not really at
all so do you think that?

Speaker 5 (42:58):
so why is it that you prefer a man who has toxic
traits, one of them being acontrolling trait?

Speaker 1 (43:07):
because I find that's like you gotta have a very
healthy level of it.
But it's like it's masculinityand that was almost where me and
him had issues was we were sopeaceful, like so peaceful.
Everything was very just fine,constantly fine.

(43:29):
Yeah, it was like not evenboring, it was just constantly
fine.
It was like never amazing,never bad, never argued, but
just like existing.
And then we're like are weroommates, are we dating, are we
getting married?
Like what are we doing?
And then we both kind of justwent oh and left it.
It was so weird most peoplepeaceful breakup I've ever had

(43:52):
right, both of you knew that, itjust wasn't.

Speaker 5 (43:55):
Yeah, well, when you date, someone for five years.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
You like you know that person.
You know them like the back ofyour hand.
And then it's like after thatwe were like we know we've given
it everything we could have.
We know each other, all we'regonna know each other for now.

Speaker 5 (44:11):
So we'll like just end it you said something about
how you think a lot of guys areinsecure.
What makes you say that?

Speaker 1 (44:19):
I find a lot of men can sometimes think that certain
things are more important thanwhat they are.
So it's like say, for example,like wealth is a massive thing,
that I feel like guys thinkwomen care a lot about it, and
it's like they do.
Like it's the security and it'sthe attributes that come with

(44:40):
it, so it's like the worst ethicand stuff like that.
But then it's like, say, agirl's like a man will get
insecure of a girl.
Oh, what if she's gonna go forsomeone richer?
What if she's gonna go forsomething like that?
And it's like, if you actuallylike stop and focus on what your
girl wants, like you know a lotof girls really want the bare
minimum things.
Like it's like when you'relaying in bed and your baby's

(45:04):
crying, if your husband gets upto the baby, like that's like a
way more important thing thanlike coming home with like a
chanel bag.
Like that's just like gonna sitin your closet.
And it's like I feel a lot ofthings like that get lost I
think you might be right.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
Once somebody is like deep in a relationship or
married and has kids.
I agree, but it's actually verymuch the opposite.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
But the attributes have to exist from the get go.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
But you say that, but most girls at more the
beginning of the relationshipit's actually no, If a guy's
like putting in too much effort,they'll push away, like as a
guy, you you're walking thislike tightrope at the beginning
of the relationship where you'relike if I'm going to put in too
much effort, which sounds good.
But the reality is a lot ofgirls once they see oh, this is

(45:57):
too easy, there's no more chase,goes downhill.
They stop texting you back,blah, blah, blah.
You have to kind of know whatyou're doing, and you have to.
You can't just be, oh yeah, I'mgonna be the guy who does
everything for her, and blah,blah, blah.
You have to kind of know how tolike play the game a little bit
yeah, but you know what's sofunny.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
So the ex the one I was with for five years he
messaged me like three yearsbefore we dated and then I ran
into him at the shops like twoyears before we dated.
Then he messaged me againasking to hang out.
I didn't reply to it.
At this point I was on a datingapp, matched me I didn't match

(46:38):
him back, messaged me onInstagram and was like, so
consistently following up andlike I saw him out one night,
didn't speak to him, and then hewas like, oh okay, whatever,
like it doesn't matter.
The next time I saw him out, hekind of like didn't even really
bother saying hi because I hadblown him off so many times.
And then I was like, oh hi,like you didn't say hello, and

(47:02):
he was like, oh yeah, I didn'tthink so and I ended up dating
him.
So all those years of likeputting in the effort and, like
you know, copying the no repliesand stuff, he actually got
there in the end.

Speaker 3 (47:14):
Wait, but what you just told me is all those years
of putting in the effort didn'twork.
And then one night I mean wedated, yeah, and then one night
he doesn't put in the effort,and that's when you liked him.
You just, you just destroyedyour own argument with your own
argument.

(47:34):
It's like.
It's like it's like in fightclub when he's punching himself
in the face.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Oh my God, that's so scary when you say that out loud
.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
Because it's true.
No, but most girls are veryunaware of it.
Girls say all the time on thepodcast yeah, I want like.
I like simps, I like guys whodo everything and they're super
nice to me oh my god you don'tactually but oh, that's so
because, yeah, I literally wentup to him.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
I was like hi you're like wait.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
Why is he not giving me attention now?

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Oh my God, that's so funny.

Speaker 5 (48:09):
It's because what women say they want is often
molded by society's expectation.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
Definitely.

Speaker 5 (48:17):
And more often than not, what they truly want is
beneath the surface and it'svery subconscious, and so they
respond to it once they meet theperson.
But they don't want to admitthat that is the thing that they
want, because it would be anegative point of view from

(48:39):
other people's perspective Iguess sorry, but I also find
it's just.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
It's constantly changing and it's constantly
evolving.
I feel like that's like theproblem with like today's
society is no one's really everhappy.
It's like what's next, what'snext, what's next?

Speaker 5 (49:01):
Well, yeah, because of the access that you have and
social media creates this desireto want to be like others.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
How long have you been married?

Speaker 5 (49:14):
almost a year okay.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
So yeah, how long did you guys date?
Almost two years and where didyou meet?

Speaker 5 (49:22):
here downstairs, oh cute so what was?

Speaker 1 (49:25):
what did you find?
Was the difference between,like you know, meeting her and
wanting to marry her, opposedlike people you've dated in the
past?

Speaker 5 (49:35):
so I uh, I was just done with my previous.
Well, not just, it had beenlike a few months that I had
broken up with my ex oh so youjumped from relationship to
relationship no, I just said itwas a few months she keeps using
her own shit against us.

Speaker 3 (49:55):
Yeah, she's like, she's like.
No, it had been it had been.

Speaker 5 (49:58):
It had been like six months or so yeah, it had been
six months when two to six.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Someone's gonna watch this timeline, be like, oh
interesting.

Speaker 5 (50:05):
No, no, it had been it had been six months since we
had broken up and, um,officially we had broken up, but
it had been much longer thanthat, probably, maybe like a
year or something, since therelationship was over.
So there was this like this gapthat we were just like I would
say I was.
I mean, she'll argue against it, but, um, I was like still

(50:29):
fighting for the relationshipand trying to make it work.
We live together.
And so, um, I was on and off inthat relationship for about six
years and after thatrelationship I I was, I told
myself, like this is it.
I'm never gonna be with anybodyagain.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
Like, fuck this yeah, you know it's.

Speaker 5 (50:49):
Yeah, and I truly believe that too, and I think
the irony in it is you always do.
But the thing is like, I still,to this day, believe that.
Yeah.
Except, I met this one personand aside from her, I have not
met a single person that I wouldhave ever changed my opinion on

(51:13):
when it comes to what Ibelieved in.
And so when I met her as muchas he thinks that this is all
bullshit there was this veryimmediate sort of change in my
perspective and I was like, ohshit, like this is like I, I

(51:38):
can't, I can't, I couldn't evenbelieve that, like that could
have happened at that momentbecause of, like, the level of
chemistry and how I felt abouther at that moment so, like you
would say, the when you know,you know is like very real.
Yeah, he'll argue against it.
He says that it's bullshit andlike people just like make that
up.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
It is bullshit, of course.
I mean he's married to her now.

Speaker 5 (51:58):
But that's also another thing, right, like you,
I think, when you meet theperson that you're supposed to
be with, yeah, it takes a lotmore than just, like you know,
attraction, yeah, to make therelationship work long term.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
So what was that pinnacle difference, like what
was so different between likerelationships in the past and
like her?

Speaker 5 (52:25):
I truly believe in you have to really know yourself
well.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Yeah, that's what I was saying.
Know yourself well.
Yeah, that's what.

Speaker 5 (52:30):
I was saying Before, you are capable and able to be
in a relationship, that is goingto be that one relationship for
you and it'll go on forever.
Yeah, because the reality of itis most people get into
relationships and most of thoserelationships end, and majority
of the time the reason isbecause people lack

(52:52):
self-awareness.
Yeah.
And, as a result, they don'tunderstand what their values are
and therefore they end up beingin relationships with people
who they're not compatible with.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
A hundred percent.

Speaker 5 (53:08):
So after a while the attraction starts to fade off,
and then what's left is itsincompatibility and friction.
And you can't get rid offriction unless you become
compatible with a person, andmost people are too selfish to
become compatible with anotherperson.
So you're left with fights andthen after a while, you just

(53:33):
have to end it, because nobodywants to be in an unhappy
relationship.
Yeah.
And I think a lot of peoplereally miss the part of
understanding themselves beforegetting into a relationship and
it takes a while for some people.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
more you know, longer for for some, I think it's one
of the biggest things.

Speaker 5 (53:55):
Yeah, of course, and you don't know that until you
know that which is which sucksyeah, and and for me it was very
true that the previousrelationship that I had really
shifted my mentality and reallymade me grow and really changed
how I looked at a relationshipand how I was able to make sure

(54:19):
that it's not just about thesimple things.
You really have to work hard onyourself in order to make a
relationship succeed.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
Yeah, it's not like who do you want to date?
It's also like why wouldsomeone want to date me Exactly?
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (54:34):
And so a big parts of those mistakes that I was
making at the time in my pastrelationships became very
evident to me once myrelationships, you know, were
ending and I was like, oh, whyis this relationship ending?
And one of the things that Ihad to do was look inwards and

(54:56):
look at the things that I wasdoing wrong, as opposed to
trying to blame the other personyeah and a lot of times people
end relationships andcontinuously blame their partner
for the relationship that ended.
And I think in my pastrelationship, the first time
around we broke up I was veryangry.
I was just like I was goingthrough this like motion of,

(55:19):
just like really hating herbecause I was blindsided.
Yeah.
And then COVID happened.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
Wait, blindsided, did she cheat?

Speaker 5 (55:27):
No, no, no.
She just like she ended therelationship very abruptly oh
right, right, right yeah no, no,she just like she ended the
relationship like very abruptly,yeah and, and I was.
I was very angry about itbecause, like I was like how is
this possible?
A month ago, you wrote me thisletter on my birthday saying you
wanted to spend the rest ofyour life with me.
How is it that, all of a sudden, you want to end this
relationship that like how arethese words like coming out of

(55:48):
your mouth?

Speaker 1 (55:48):
like it makes no sense I totally like it's so
funny because I hear that and itmakes so much sense because men
are so like what you say.
That's what I'm gonna takeright so if I say to you I like
you, you're gonna take.
Well, she said she likes me.
She likes me where women?
Because we change our emotionsa lot in that moment she wrote

(56:11):
that letter.
She could have fullywholehearted meaning, like meant
it sure, so you read it andyou're like well, you said that,
so you mean it.

Speaker 5 (56:18):
But then within 24 hours she was like wait, like
that guy right, and and that wassort of the biggest lesson that
I learned was that therelationship had ended in her
head.
Yeah, and, and I wasn't in herhead yeah, because the words
that were being told yeah thewords that were being told to me
were completely different thanyou know what was going on in

(56:40):
her mind and and and, and.
When I realized that I was likehuh, like I don't, like, I don't
think it's even her own faultbecause she, she didn't know
herself.
Yeah and so, and so that's when, so I said, my anger started to
sort of drift a lot and then Istarted to really look at the

(57:01):
things that I was, that that Ihad done that resulted in in
that relationship ending andfinally I came to this place
where I started to realize thatall I could have done was just
sort of look at what I did wrongand try to change those things
about myself so I could becomebetter the next time around.

(57:23):
Yeah.
And in my next relationship,once I met my wife, a lot of the
things that she would say to meand compliment me on and say
that, like hey, like I love thisabout you.
Those were the exact samethings that I had fixed.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
Oh, can you imagine your ex watching you guys?
She'd be like that's all Iwanted you to do.
And then you're like no, I getit now Married.

Speaker 5 (57:55):
Well, I think the irony in that is that she that
that, that relationship was notgoing to work regardless.
Yeah, because I think there wasso much more like we just
weren't compatible in in in alot of ways, and that's that's
also another thing that I hadlearned after afterwards was
that realizing thatcompatibility matters so much,
but also having the same valuesystem matters yeah, definitely
a lot and most people don'treally think of those things you

(58:17):
know, even even in simpleissues, just knowing that the
person that you're sharing yourlife with shares the same value
system is extremely importantbecause then, then, then it
takes away doubt and insecurity,and it takes away not wanting

(58:38):
to trust the other person incertain situations exactly
because then, when you know thatyour partner has the same value
system as you, then then you'reyou're so much more comfortable
being able to believe in them,being able to trust them, being
able to just allow yourself toopen up in situations that you

(59:00):
might feel insecure.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's definitely like a huge shift and
I feel like every person kindof has that person that made
them kind of like glockthemselves.
Like there's always like thatone person where you go, wait,
wait, wait, what have I beendoing?
And then you kind of look backon all the other relationships,

(59:22):
like I was seeing this guy andit was a similar situation.
Nothing bad happened, like itwas super, super peaceful, like
amazing, and I liked him so much.
And then it was like the firsttime I've ever been broken up
with, so I wasn't handling itwell.
But he basically said to me hewas like you know, you say these

(59:46):
things you want, but you're notbeing the person that's going
to get those things.
And I was like but what do youmean?
And he's like you know you'redoing this or you're doing that,
or you know, like you can'tregulate your emotions when
you're upset or like you can'tcommunicate in a way.
That's just like simple blah,blah, blah.

(01:00:08):
And I didn't get it at the time.
I was like what do you mean?
Like if you were my boyfriend,of course I would do that and he
goes, but why is someone goingto want to be your boyfriend
when they can't see thoseattributes like already formed,
like it's not someone's job tolike bring them out of you.
And I like didn't really getwhat he meant at the time.

(01:00:32):
And then after that I likethought about it a lot and I was
like that's actually so true.
Like you think of these thingsyou want to do how you want to
be, and like until you reallysit back and look at yourself
because you're so busy blamingother people and like the
feelings and the hurt you gowait, okay, I actually need to

(01:00:52):
fix this.
And that's when I like did allthat work stuff.
That's why I stopped dating,because I was like wait, I can't
date anyone because I don'teven know what I want, who I am.
I'm saying I want this, butthen I'm not really deserving of
that yet because I'm not doingwhat that person that deserves
those things is doing.

(01:01:13):
And like there was just a lotthat I was like okay, and I feel
like now I'm at a point,finally, where I could let
someone in and potentially belike able to be 100%.
So that's exciting, at least.

Speaker 5 (01:01:31):
Time, it's all about time, and obviously I think that
kind of brings up a very goodlesson with regards to
communication, because I thinkcommunication is like a massive
underrated issue, that that mostpeople sort of forget about.
If, if you're not communicatingproperly in a relationship, it

(01:01:52):
doesn't matter what you do it ityou will have conflicts, yeah,
and I think most people thinkthat they could just like get
away with oh, like he knows me,or like she knows me, or um, oh,
I you know, I've done this somany times like yeah he should
know, and people and I think Ihear women do this a lot Also

(01:02:16):
it's like oh, he should alreadyknow, or I expect this, or you
know I'm I've said this before,but you know, before being like
two years ago yeah.
And then you know, a man shouldlike, just like, remember it and
I think, understanding that,like there's nothing wrong with
communicating, there's nothingwrong with just being open, with

(01:02:38):
the fact that if you just spokeyour mind, that you will be in
a much safer space than if youdidn't.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
I just I feel now vulnerability is not considered
cool, like I can definitely seea lot of people nowadays Like I
even see it with like a lot ofmy friends, like they'll be like
oh, he said this, so like I'mnot going to reply for this many
hours, or like what should.
Like over.
Analyzing such little things islike breaking people, just

(01:03:08):
going like hey problem, heysolution.
Breaking people just going likehey problem, hey solution.
Yeah.
It's like so many differentthings are in the way for no
reason and so many like crypticmessages like oh, he hasn't
messaged me in three days andit's, it's so true because, like
, if someone really does likeyou, they shouldn't not message
you for three days.
Like that is weird.

(01:03:30):
But then you know, then theyfinally message and they go well
, they didn't message for threedays, so I'm not gonna see them
or I'm gonna be super dry andyou're like this is not how it's
meant to be yeah and that's whyI feel like as well again
dating done yeah, it is toughbecause, like from a guy's
perspective, like there aregirls where you wait a couple

(01:03:53):
days and they get more into youbecause of that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
Like I remember one time.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
No, I I do agree with you on that one.
But and unlike my situation, Igot clocked with.
If a guy doesn't message me forthree days, I will not give it
energy, because it's like that'swhere that energy lies, like
it's like I can only give andtake, like it's like
reciprocation right and it'slike, if you can go three days,
we're all on our phones 24 7, soit's like it's really not that

(01:04:23):
hard yeah it is okay.

Speaker 5 (01:04:27):
I have a very interesting story with regards
to this.
So the me and my wife's seconddate yeah, we were going on one
of our friends yacht and he wasthere actually, and a few days
before, so on our first date, wehad talked and I was like, oh,

(01:04:48):
hey, by the way, like thisweekend we're going on a yacht,
and like, do you want to do, youwant to come?
And she was like, yeah, hey, bythe way, like this weekend
we're going on a yacht, and like, do you want to do, you want to
come?
And she was like, yeah, I wouldlove to, that'd be great.
Can I bring my friend?
And I was like, yeah, of course, sure, no problem.
And two days before, or a daybefore a couple of days before
we were talking, and she waslike, hey, like this weekend, on

(01:05:11):
Saturday, I'm going to a ravewith my friends.
I was like, yeah, cool, noproblem.
And so that day, during the daywe were talking, and then she
goes to this rave and I'm liketexting her information yeah,
you know about the.
She probably had no receptionAbout the yacht and so she's not

(01:05:33):
replying to me.
Yeah, and I was like, oh okay,you know she must be like at the
rave and like she's probablybusy, no problem.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
And then she's bodying, she's having a dance.

Speaker 5 (01:05:46):
And then the next day I'm like you know, texting her
again and like she's notreplying and I was like that's
interesting, okay.
And then the day, the morningof that like sunday, we were
going, I think on the yacht thatmorning comes and she messages

(01:06:07):
me on on instagram and she'slike, hey, are we, are we still
on?
And I was like, yeah, like I'vebeen like texting you, she goes
.
Really, I was like yeah and Isent her a screenshot, and then
she sends me a screenshot howshe's been messaging me, and so
neither of us for the past twodays were getting each other's

(01:06:29):
messages I.
There was like some glitchbetween like my phone and like
her phone, yeah, so like she wastexting me and I was texting
her and neither of us weregetting the messages, and um and
and and the.
The funny thing about it isthat when she was texting me and

(01:06:49):
I wasn't replying to her,supposedly she was talking to
her friends and she was textingme and I wasn't replying to her.
Supposedly she was talking toher friends.
And she was very upset.
She was like, hey, like I'vebeen like this guy has been
talking to me the whole time,like is he ghosting me?
And they were like, yeah, he'sghosting you, fuck him, don't
even talk to him.
Remember again, and the funnything about it is that if she

(01:07:13):
hadn't messaged me on thatSunday in the morning on
Instagram instead of just liketexting me or whatever, the
situation was that we would havenever been able to talk to each
other again, probably, or shemight have just like avoided me
and then maybe I would havetexted her the next day, or
someone like that, and like Iwould have been cold because,

(01:07:35):
like she canceled without sayinganything, or like you know what
I mean.
We both have like differentperspectives on what happened?
Yeah.
And so our attitude.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
And there would have been a little bit there where
you were like wait, is this like?
Is one of us bullshitting?

Speaker 5 (01:07:52):
Like or did you straight away?
You were both like no, no, thiswas no.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
I mean, we had screenshots of like the messages
not being delivered, so likethat wasn't an issue, but I
think you know had she not, sothey were green anyway not
having an iphone almostdestroyed your marriage.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
Yeah, that has.
That is crazy, it would be blueand say delivered yeah you
would know if it's delivered.

Speaker 5 (01:08:10):
Yeah, yeah point being that the the issue of you
know sort of assumption,assuming that, like some,
somebody's doing something orsomebody's thinking something
would have killed ourrelationship just because of the
the simple issue of technologyin this particular case.

(01:08:32):
Yeah.
And sometimes people are justbusy, Sometimes people are just
like have something going on,Sometimes people just like miss
a message.
Sometimes people read a messagebut then they're in the middle
of something and then forget toreply.
There's like so many differentand sometimes people just don't
even pay attention to theirphones.
Yeah.
You know.
So there's like differentscenarios with different types
of personalities, and I thinkit's extremely important to

(01:08:56):
communicate and put aside yourego and just be like hey, I'm
just gonna talk to this personto figure out where they're at.
And one of the things that Ihad learned very early on was
like to straight up ask yeah,are you actually interested?
Yeah you know, just be like, ifyou're not, just tell me that
you're not, and that's okay alsophone calls.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
If you like someone, just call them unless they're
gen z, you scare them away whatdo I do?

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
I hate that you have experience with gen z dating
wait why, what is gen z?
How old is that you?

Speaker 5 (01:09:29):
You are 96, correct 97.
97.
So you're a Gen Z.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
Oh, okay, that's fine .
I was picturing like a19-year-old.
I was like, what are you doing?

Speaker 3 (01:09:40):
His wife's 19.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
Really, yeah, oh wow, wait, I don't want to be a
hater.
Wait, is she?

Speaker 5 (01:09:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
How old was she when you met?

Speaker 5 (01:09:49):
18.

Speaker 1 (01:09:49):
18.
You were married for a year andthen dated for two years.

Speaker 5 (01:09:55):
Well, she's turning 20 in like a couple months, a
little bit, there's a timeline.
No, no, actually she had turned19.
She had turned 18, two months.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
She had turned 18 two months before.
Damn, she doesn't forgetnothing.
Yeah, literally, she has asteel trap memory.
She'll remember that shitforget nothing.

Speaker 5 (01:10:12):
Yeah, she has a steel trap memory, she'll remember
that shit.
No, she, she turned 18 and thentwo months later we met and
then about a year later yeah, Imean over a year later we got
married a year and two years.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
Sorry, isn't she 19 now?

Speaker 5 (01:10:23):
you said she's, she's , she's turning 20 in a couple
months, but yeah so she's 19 now.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
You're together for two years, married for a year.
That's three years, babe.
No, I said almost two years, sothat's 16, okay, that's 17.

Speaker 5 (01:10:31):
You're together for two years, married for a year.
That's three years, babe no, Isaid almost two years so that's
16.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
Okay, that's 17, you're just making numbers up
did you help?

Speaker 3 (01:10:38):
her with her times tables when she was how old is
she?

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
um?
How old are you?
I'm 36 that's crazy.
No, but I mean you're married,so you're one up on both of us.

Speaker 5 (01:10:54):
What's what's funny is that I was talking to her
about this today, today actuallythis morning.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
That's crazy.
You married her, so thatactually is living proof that
like age is truly in sense ofmaturity, not really a hundred
percent.
Yeah, well here's.
Here's what I would say here'swhat I would say.

Speaker 5 (01:11:12):
I was talking to her this morning about this part,
this exact subject.
She is so far apart from herage group.
She actually did a sort ofwhat's your age test, psychology
test, and her age came back 44.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
And so it was kind of , so that makes it okay.

Speaker 5 (01:11:34):
But what I'm saying is because a lot of people would
talk about compatibility andlike we've had girls on the show
where they were like I don'teven, I can't even imagine being
compatible with somebody likethat much older than me, and
like we actually had guests hereyesterday.
Both of them were 18 years old.
Yeah.
And we had another guest whowas 21.
And it's crazy to me how farthey are in maturity levels,

(01:11:57):
because I could never be able toimagine myself even have an
hour conversation with any ofthese girls.
Yeah.
Because of how incompatible weare and how much we just do.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
Yeah, it's just like we have nothing in common.
It's like a different range.

Speaker 3 (01:12:10):
Yeah, talk.
How do we get you to talk?

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
It's like, not a reality that you're aware of.

Speaker 3 (01:12:14):
You'd like spin the back of their thing and then
like start moving.
Like I didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
I was like very confusing, yeah, well, I guess
it's like it's also like the erathat we grew up in.
There was still very much reallife, like it was like, not like
phones, instagram, social mediapresence, like you know going
out all that kind of stuff.
It was like not like phones,instagram, social media presence
, like you know.
Going out all that kind ofstuff.
It was like that didn't reallyexist, like I didn't get an
iphone until I was like in year10 I was in college when yeah

(01:12:43):
exactly where, like you know,their whole lives are wrapped
around this.

Speaker 3 (01:12:48):
Yeah, my dad would kick me out of the house.
Go play with your friends yeah,exactly, learn like basic human
interaction.
Yeah, we're playing like wiffleball in the backyard and we get
in a fight and then we likefigure out how to like resolve
the fight.
You know, yeah, and nowadaysthey're just sitting there.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
You know, yeah, you know.
What's so crazy, though is likemaybe this could be a problem
is I've never dated someone overthe age of 30, ever, ever well,
you've also never dated anybodyfor the past.
Well, you also haven't datedanybody for the past two and a

(01:13:21):
half years, yeah, but the onesthat, like I've even, like you
know, seen all under 30, 30s,are the best age I know 40s they
start to get too old.

Speaker 3 (01:13:30):
20s is like they don't got their shit together.
30s are the best age.
40s they start to get too old.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
20s is like they don't got their shit together.

Speaker 3 (01:13:34):
30s is the golden years, yeah, 34 specifically.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
Maybe that's my problem.

Speaker 3 (01:13:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:13:39):
I would say like age gaps are very relative.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
Hey, I could be 19 and getting married.

Speaker 5 (01:13:46):
I would say age gap is very relative to maturity.
It just I think when it comesto people sort of putting this
blanket statement on like ohthere, you know you should be
this much older or this muchyounger, whatever it is, I I
just don't think there is reallya formula for it, because yeah
the reality of it is like mywife does not really um.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
She can't relate to her friend yeah, right group of
people that are her age yeah,because they're in different
aspects of life.

Speaker 5 (01:14:20):
Yeah, totally so as much as she's like, still like
has friends that are, you know,19, 20, 21.
She also really appreciates thefact that, like she has me as a
husband who's like much older,that she could get along with in
a lot of different aspects oflife yeah and I think in in a
lot of sense also she, she kindof her family in general, like,

(01:14:45):
uh, her upbringing was just veryset to make her the way that
she is yeah because her sister.
Her sister is 15 years old andshe also acts very mature yeah
and so, um, it's, it's funnybecause like people would meet
her and they think that like hersister is even older than her,
right, so it's kind of it's kindof crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:15:03):
But, um, like I said, like I would meet you know
people on the podcast, whetherit is, or you know some of her
friends and they're just like Ijust can't, I can't imagine
having a conversation with thembut even like, say, for example,
if they're, like you know, also19 and you know having a
husband is a very safe space, soshe has someone that she trusts

(01:15:27):
enough to marry, and like amasculine energy as a female
guiding you, especially at thatage, you are gonna feel very
safe and you are gonna, like,grow up a lot quicker.
But when you're 19 and youdon't have anyone guiding you,
you're just like well, it'sinteresting you say that because
we have had people.

Speaker 5 (01:15:50):
People have very mixed emotions and opinions
about the guidance.
Yeah.
There are people that wouldsort of suggest that, like, if
you have to be guided by yourpartner, that like that that's
not the right relationship.
But I was actually having thisconversation with somebody the

(01:16:10):
other day where she was like Idon't want to look at my partner
as like my dad yeah, and.
I was like well, you don't, youdon't have to look at your
partner as your dad.
But the reality of it is thatwomen tend to date up.
Women tend to tend to want tobe with someone as a man who is
protective who is able to takecare of them man who is

(01:16:33):
protective yeah, who is able totake care of them and and
somebody who's able to take careof them naturally comes with a
knowledge and wisdom that that,at most of the time, tends to be
more superior yeah and so thatfeeling of you know, wanting to
be in your feminine is sort ofwanting to be submissive yeah

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
and if you want to be submissive, you can't be
submissive towards somebody thatyou see as an equal but it's
also like being submissive tothe right person and like,
honestly, if you're marryingsomeone, that is you saying like
I trust this person.
And it's like in a world where,as women, it's naturally very
scary to be around men,especially if you don't trust

(01:17:16):
them.
To like marry someone is to saylike I full, wholeheartedly
trust you, which I don't thinkthat would be a bad thing at all
to follow their guidancebecause you trust them.
Yeah, and it's like you feelsafe.
Yeah, like if I had a husbandand I couldn't literally be
blindfolded and be happy where Iended up, then I'm probably

(01:17:37):
like, not with the right person,but what made you so?
What made you propose?
What made you go?
yep, this is it getting marriedI because that's also a massive
shift to not just like date foran extensive period, to be like

(01:17:57):
for an extensive period to belike married the big part of it
for me was like I, I knew veryearly on that like I wanted to
marry her.

Speaker 5 (01:18:01):
Yeah, because because of how she was and like the
value system that she has andhow compatible we are, we were I
had.
I told her very early on.
I was like I was like I, likeyou know, I don't, I don't want
to scare you, but we're going toget married.

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
And she said oh my God, but every guy says that, so
she would be like, yeah,whatever.

Speaker 5 (01:18:19):
She didn't.
Well, she was just like I'm 18years old.
What the fuck are you talkingabout?
Yeah.
And I was like, yeah, we don'thave to get married tomorrow,
I'm just letting you know, likethat's my intention, and I also,
because I see how you are, andlike I just I think and I think
you're incredible like I don't,I would never want to lose you,

(01:18:40):
yeah, and she was like, oh, soyou're trying to like tie me
down so like I don't go withsomebody else?
I was like, no, not at all.
If you want to wait, like fiveyears, six years, however long
you want to wait, we'll wait.
But, um, but I also want tomake sure that we both have the
same intentions.
So then we're not wasting time.
And as much as she appreciatedthat, she later on told me that

(01:19:00):
she didn't understand it yeahand, and I think one of the
things that I wanted to reallyfocus on was giving her the
space to sort of grow into thedesire to want to get married,
because if she didn't have thedesire then then you know that
wouldn't make sense.
It wouldn't be right to likemarry her out of force,
obviously yeah so and not tomention like, like we're in

(01:19:20):
america, like that.
Just that wouldn't have happenedto begin with.
So um the the the.
The interesting part about itwas that the qualities that she
has are the exact qualities of aperson that I always saw myself
marrying.

Speaker 1 (01:19:39):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:19:39):
And all I had to really make sure was that she
felt the same way and it wasreciprocal.
And so when I met her family,we sat down with her mom and her
dad and her mom and dad, hermom and her dad and, like her,
her mom and dad, like had hermom had met me already, but her
dad, um, obviously like hadn't.

(01:20:00):
And so when we sat down, herdad was, like you know, asking
me all these like differentquestions and, like you know,
obviously the big part of it waslike, why are you attracted to?
You know, you have like 17 yearage gap.
Like what is you know?
Is there something wrong withyou?
And you know they were.
They had gone into it with likevery like skeptical mindset.

Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
Of course their parents yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:20:23):
And the the interesting part of it was they
came out of that conversationwith a completely different
perspective of like we like, welike, we're happy that you're
going to marry our daughter, andI think it's it's it's sort of
a obviously compliment on my endto to you know, hear that and
to sort of get that umvalidation that like they

(01:20:47):
understand you know what I seein their daughter.
But I think if you ask a manwhat they want, they truly want
someone who understands them andwho has a very solid feminine
energy and somebody who respectsthem.

Speaker 1 (01:21:09):
Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 5 (01:21:10):
And I don't, and as much as like these, these, these
are very simple things, butit's very difficult for women in
this era to fulfill these,these sort of small traits yeah
and you know I I talk about this.
Sometimes some of it has to dowith the, you know feminist
movements, which I don't thinkin like theory, there's anything

(01:21:32):
wrong with it, but I think youend up with women who are kind
of lost in the spectrum, and theway that I like to describe it
is that the spectrum has twosides to it.
You got the, the, the dominant,independent women, and you got
the submissive women who want tobe taken care of and be
housewives, and then in themiddle you got the lost puppies

(01:21:54):
and what ends up happening isthe ones who are sort of hearing
all this sort of advertisementon the feminist be independent,
be your own person, you know,make sure that, um, you don't.
No man could like take awayyour power, like all these
things.
You know it.
There is, there is good it's,there are good messages in there

(01:22:16):
yeah but it comes with negativeconnotation yeah which is men
suck, you don't need to respectthem yeah just be by yourself,
and when that happens, you endup getting confused on like hey,
am I supposed to like thisperson, or am I supposed to hate
this person?
Or this, is this a personsupposed to take care of me?

Speaker 1 (01:22:38):
it's also like what you speak out is what you're
gonna see.
So it's like if you'reconstantly like I hate men, I
hate men or men are the worst,you're gonna look for the worst
things in them and like, I trulybelieve that, like we are so
lucky we're in a time now wherewomen are doing a lot of things
that they didn't used to do.
But it's also like again, whenyou meet the right person, being

(01:23:03):
able to let that softer sidestill come through.

Speaker 5 (01:23:06):
But it's, yeah, finding that happy medium yeah,
the interesting thing is like mywife is very independent yeah
like she's she's got her shitfigured out and like she knows
what she wants and she's verygoal-oriented, very motivated
and like just just perfect humanbeing.
And but we're, when we'retogether, fully in her feminine,

(01:23:27):
yeah, and very submissive andjust I feel like that's every
woman's goal yeah to to be thatperson, yeah, 100.
But but then again you know youkind of, if you don't know how
to navigate it, you just getlost in between yeah and and
it's also I think a lot ofpeople would put emphasis in
like, the trust of like oh, Ihave to be comfortable with this
person to be in my feminine.

(01:23:48):
But I think if most womenpractice being their feminine,
regardless of whether or notthey trust a man, it would make
them have the ability to switchmuch quicker, because when you
put it on the other person, youjust have more of the tendency
to make an excuse of like itwasn't me, it's them, yeah, and

(01:24:08):
when that happens, once you domeet the right person, it's
going to be much harder for youto to switch that because you're
like is the trust coming?
Is the trust coming?

Speaker 1 (01:24:19):
is it the?
Trust, but then maybe it's justnot the trust, maybe it's just
you well, that was also likewhen we were talking about
earlier me having like boyfriendafter boyfriend.
The moment I was single, I feltalone and I needed that void
filled.
Either validation yeah exactlyso then it didn't even matter if
they were the perfect candidate, they were just like.

(01:24:40):
You know we liked each otherand then you know they wanted to
be my boyfriend.
I wanted to be their girlfriend, like enough.
And then when I finally didthat self work that's why I've
been alone for so long, CauseI'm like I don't want to just be
with someone, to be withsomeone, Like I'd rather be
alone and like wait for theright person.

(01:25:00):
Then constantly, because everytime you date someone that
you're really not meant to bedating, you just pick up all the
like, trauma and problems andeverything with that, so it's
like not worth it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:13):
Yeah, but it also can be a learning experience if you
do it correctly.
I've had enough learning.

Speaker 1 (01:25:18):
No more learning.
I'm done with the learning.
So wait, what's going on withyour girlfriend?
I?

Speaker 3 (01:25:23):
don't have a girlfriend.
I'm single.

Speaker 1 (01:25:25):
Okay, well, what are you doing at the moment?

Speaker 5 (01:25:28):
I've been seeing a girl for a couple of weeks and
we're seeing how it goes momentuh, I've been seeing a girl for
a couple weeks and we're seeinghow it goes how many?
Weeks couple, actually two,yeah, probably two couple being
two.

Speaker 1 (01:25:38):
Yeah, so it's very early that is so fresh, oh my
god, that's that's kind of likestill really sweet that like
she's getting a mention at twoweeks.

Speaker 5 (01:25:47):
Well, I mean you asked a question yeah and then
now he's like cornered into ayou know.

Speaker 1 (01:25:54):
Oh, I have nothing to hide, no, I just mean in the
sense, like a lot of peoplewould like two weeks would keep
it very like hush, hush.
I think that's really cool,that you're like claiming it.

Speaker 5 (01:26:04):
Well, he's, yeah, he's very honest.

Speaker 1 (01:26:06):
Yeah, he's a very honest man.

Speaker 3 (01:26:07):
Even back when I was a fuckboy.

Speaker 1 (01:26:08):
Like a lot of guys would lie about that they would
go no.

Speaker 3 (01:26:11):
Yeah, I would always tell girls I don't want to be
exclusive.
If I didn't want to beexclusive.
Yeah.
For some reason, they alwaysthought that I was going to be
exclusive at some point.

Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
I don't know why You're like.
I'm literally telling you thetruth.

Speaker 3 (01:26:24):
Yeah, I was like I'm being honest with you, like at
least I.

Speaker 1 (01:26:34):
There been like a shift in your friendship.
Were you like him before?
Did I like him no, were youlike him, fuck boy oh I was.
I've never been a fuck boy thatis not definitely 100 lying
he's like, but like so, did youfind when you got married, did
that change your friendship atall?

Speaker 5 (01:26:55):
I feel like we've honestly got stronger over the
yeah, I mean not really becauseof the marriage, but over the
last few years definitely yeah,I think, just our timeline when
it comes to our friendship,which has gotten, yeah, closer
and closer, because I alwayswonder if that's like a thing,
because you know how it's, likeyour group, like you know what
everyone's kind of doing iseveryone gonna do that?

Speaker 3 (01:27:15):
yeah, usually that is .

Speaker 2 (01:27:16):
What happens is when somebody gets married first of
all, you never see him again,like you see him like once every
two years, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:27:23):
But then, yeah, a lot of people get married, married,
married.
But yeah I don't know about ourfriend.

Speaker 1 (01:27:28):
I think we're pretty far away, like I think, like I
think we're chilling, we'rechilling, yeah, I highly doubt.

Speaker 5 (01:27:33):
Like we're, so we're, our friend group is anywhere
from like 40-ish to like 30 now.
I would say we're like 29.
And I don't think anybody'sgetting married Right, except
for me and one of our other guyfriends who's older.
He's like 43.
Who, andy, right, except for meand one of our other guy

(01:27:53):
friends who's who's older?
He's like 43.
Um, andy, where he's 44.

Speaker 3 (01:27:58):
Well, he's married already.
It's a different kind of it.
He has like open marriages andyeah, oh wow, orgies and like oh
my god, yeah he does like thecrazy life yeah oh my god,
that's crazy wait, but he'smarried well.

Speaker 5 (01:28:10):
Yeah, but that's a completely different comment.
The point is that he, exceptfrom him and me, we're the only
two people who are married.
I don't foresee anybody elsegetting married anytime soon, do
you?
Well, actually, one of ourfriends he's yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
Do you believe like when guys are friends friends
because you would obviously seeother guys but your your own guy
group?
The mentality within the groupis a representation of how you
treat women no, we treat our guyfriends way worse.

Speaker 3 (01:28:48):
You should see our group chat.

Speaker 1 (01:28:49):
We destroy each other but like do you when you guys
speak about women?

Speaker 5 (01:28:55):
we have a very, um, broad spectrum of how everybody
is when it comes to, when itcomes to this and and, and I
think one of the things to toalso understand is that, like,
because of who we like, like,every single one of us treats
women very well as far as like,as far as the way that we

(01:29:19):
respect women yeah it'sconcerned, so you wouldn't meet
any of us.
That would be likedisrespectful.
And or meet anybody who wouldsay you know negative things
about our friend group, as youknow.
You know as as a whole.
Um, obviously there is.
There is conflicts between,like people that date someone,
or like you're in a relationshipwith someone that you break up

(01:29:39):
and then you know, there, there,there are always those issues,
but you would never have like agroup of women that would say
something negative about anybodyelse Well, except Zach.
In a Facebook group chat Umnegative about anybody else.

Speaker 3 (01:29:55):
Well, except Zach in a Facebook group chat.
Um, but that's a longer story.

Speaker 1 (01:29:57):
Zach's literally like wait, am I not in the friend
group?
What do you mean?
No, no, girls say we're bad.

Speaker 5 (01:30:03):
Yeah, but I, I think, um, I think what you said about
, about that is fairly true yeah, majority of the time.

Speaker 1 (01:30:13):
Yeah, because I find like when you find a really good
guy and you meet their friends,I like that you're pointing at
me when you're saying this yeahwhen you meet a really good guy
the plant yeah literally, whenyou meet a really good guy and,
like, you meet his friends,usually their friends are really
good people too.

(01:30:33):
And then usually, when you meeta bad guy, you meet their
friends, and they're bad too.

Speaker 3 (01:30:40):
Sure, actually it's funny because there's one guy in
our friend group thatspecifically is very much
concerned with like, alwaysgetting girls and talking to
girls.
And oh, do you want to go to?
Like you know this person'sbirthday.
He's like is there going to begirls there?
No, I'm not going like thatkind of thing and every girl
that I date every guy like that,I think, is secretly gay you

(01:31:04):
think he's gay, because we'vetalked about that before
shockingly.

Speaker 5 (01:31:08):
Actually, there has been multiple people suggesting
that either they thought he wasgay or saying oh, I thought, or
is he not gay?

Speaker 1 (01:31:17):
Because it's like the overstepping of needing to
validate, like no, look, I wantgirls, I want girls.

Speaker 5 (01:31:22):
It could be, but yeah , I don't think it's gay.
I don't think it's gay either.
I mean we joke about it.
He's watching this and he'slike.
No, I'm definitely posting thisin the group you're like, this
was about you um but yeah, Imean, I I think there's always
like a rotten apple in in everyfriend group for one reason.
No, no, no, I'm not saying thathe is.

(01:31:44):
I'm just saying, like ingeneral, that there's, there's
always that one sort of why isthis person in this friend group
, sort of thing.
And you know, we're not, we'renot an exception when it comes
to that.
But, um, I think, overall, likewhen you, you know, when you,
when you meet me, you meet zach,you meet like one of our other

(01:32:05):
friends or like maybe a coupleof our other friends, like I
think there's like three or fourpeople who are like very
similar in value systems andjust like how we treat people
and like how we sort of treat,treat each other when it comes

Speaker 1 (01:32:18):
to the, the bottom line of things um I feel like
that's like even you see it alot with like girl groups.
Like everyone in my girl groupis pretty much the same.
Like everyone dates to marry,everyone is like very much holds
people accountable.
Like if anyone in our friendgroup was to cheat, everyone
would be like like bro, why?

Speaker 3 (01:32:38):
why the?
Fuck would you do that?

Speaker 1 (01:32:40):
like everyone really holds themselves accountable,
and I think it really doescreate a standard.
And I always wonder I'm like,do men do this as well?

Speaker 5 (01:32:50):
yeah, I mean we, we, we respect each other's opinion
and I think you know there'sbeen times where, like Zach, but
would you hold each otheraccountable?

Speaker 1 (01:32:56):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:32:56):
There's been times where, like Zach would be like
hey, like this happened.
And I'd be like yo, like whatthe fuck.
Or like he would come to me andbe like hey, like this happened
.

Speaker 1 (01:33:10):
Like you know why, don't do that.
He's like leaving himself out.

Speaker 5 (01:33:13):
He's like no, no no, no, I said, I said he'll come to
me and be like yo, like whywould you do this, or why would
you say this?
Or, like, you know, this personthinks this, you know what I
mean.

Speaker 3 (01:33:23):
So, like, I think, I think, if, if you don't have a
group of friends who keep youaccountable, then you just I
don't think they're true friendsI don't think they're truly
people that you are supposed tobe close with you will clock you
like don't do that yeah we havea guy's group chat where we're
pretty honest in there, like ifsomeone's fucking up, like

(01:33:45):
people are gonna, you're gonnafind out I love that yeah, yeah.
Or even if you're just fuckingup in terms of, like, you know,
not taking care of yourself, orsomething like that like you're
gonna be called like.
One of our friends is fat and hegets demolished, demolished and
because fat is like the easiestthing to make fun of, you know
what I mean.
So it's like and we just pileon him.
You know he's actually beenlosing weight, he has been, you

(01:34:07):
know why?
Because we've been destroyinghim in the group.

Speaker 5 (01:34:08):
Yeah, that's probably motivation.
Yeah, but it's actuallyinteresting because one of our
friends um we had this, we hadwe had dinner and we had like
sat down and he was kind ofgoing over his um relationship
history.
His relationship had just endedand they broke up and like we
were like oh like what happened.

Speaker 1 (01:34:26):
He was like telling the story and so, yeah, I never
even thought, guys, oh, whathappened?
I thought he just went, do youbreak up?
Yeah, oh, that sucks.

Speaker 5 (01:34:32):
So yeah, the 40 today , don't know no, we were talking
about like him cheating andlike he was basically and he had
like emotionally cheated rightand worse, honestly okay, okay.
What is cheating to?

Speaker 1 (01:34:46):
you I.
Infidelity is like, basically,if you are speaking to someone,
or even conversing in a way, andyour intention is in a lustful
manner, you're cheating okay, so.

Speaker 5 (01:35:01):
So if in their mind they're interested in the other
person, they're yeah, like theyhaven't physically done anything
.

Speaker 1 (01:35:11):
But and again like say, if I was dating you and you
liked someone else, you havenot cheated, right, but that
would be within you to know likeI'm doing the wrong thing okay,
but but that becomes veryproblematic because, like, men
are first of all visualcreatures and men tend to be

(01:35:32):
more sexual than women 100 I'mI'm very sexual, so if I'm
looking at you and I'm thinkingto myself I really want to fuck
you.

Speaker 5 (01:35:40):
Am I cheating on my wife now?

Speaker 1 (01:35:44):
I think that becomes a very like tricky yeah, it's a
hard thing because then it'slike yeah, it's like if you
don't action, then it's likeit's not feeding into temptation
.
Yeah, it's a hard one.
So basically, I think emotionalcheating is actually worse with
men, because for men I do havea sense of understanding that

(01:36:06):
they can cheat physically andgenuinely not mean it.

Speaker 3 (01:36:11):
There's an interesting study they did where
they asked.

Speaker 1 (01:36:14):
But emotionally you have to mean it Like that's
crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:36:18):
They did a study where they took a group of guys
and a group of girls and theyasked them the same question
Would you be more heartbroken ifyour partner hooked up with
somebody?
But they said, hey, it doesn'tmean anything to me, I don't
even remember their name, I loveyou, I don't give a fuck about
this person.
Or to be more upset if somebodysaid, hey, I just want to let

(01:36:38):
you know.
I went to out to lunch withsomebody else and like, I feel
like I'm falling in love withher, but don't worry, we didn't
do anything physical which onewould make you more upset the
second one a hundred percentyeah, so girls get more upset
from the second one and guys getmore upset from the first one

(01:36:58):
oh, wow because for a guy wait,wait, wait.

Speaker 1 (01:37:02):
Was that stat the right way?

Speaker 3 (01:37:05):
so, like the guys actually did answer more to that
, the guys answered that yeah,they didn't want a girl
physically cheating on them.

Speaker 1 (01:37:12):
Yeah, because from a guy's point of view, I agree
with that though, because for agirl you do have to really
emotionally like someone to bephysical at all, where guys I
feel like they don't as muchwhen, from a guy's perspective,
it's like okay, he bought youfood.

Speaker 3 (01:37:26):
Okay, like from evolutionary perspective, he
wasted his resources and hedidn't get anything out of it,
oh my god.
Where the other perspective islike oh, I'm spending money on
dates with you and like takingyou out and going on a trip with
you, doing all these things,but then he got laid, so it's
like he got the benefit withoutputting in any of the resources

(01:37:46):
right, yeah, oh my god, that'sterrifying.

Speaker 1 (01:37:50):
I think both are horrible.
Can I just say?

Speaker 3 (01:37:52):
I mean, yeah, they are both horrible have you ever
been cheated on?

Speaker 1 (01:37:56):
um, not that I like really know of.
Okay, there's been likeobviously open conversations
about it and it's like beinggray areas, but I, I wouldn't
say yes, but honestly, you neverknow like people you just would
never know sure, but I mean if,if it hasn't happened when you

(01:38:18):
know, you realize it orrecognize it, then chances are
it didn't happen yeah, hopefullywhat do you think?

Speaker 3 (01:38:24):
let me get your advice on something, actually.
So I run into the problem.
This is happening multipletimes, um, but similar
situations.
So we do a palm spring tripevery year, yeah, in the summer,
and I go with this girl thatI'm seeing.
To be fair, we're not exclusiveor anything like that, but you
know, we're definitely like.
You know, if I'm there with heron the trip, I'm not gonna go

(01:38:47):
with another girl.

Speaker 5 (01:38:48):
Go back to her room you know, what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:38:49):
It's like I have like morals even if we're open.
You know what I?
Mean and she, she would alwayslike you know, we get there and
I'm like talking to everybodyand she's why.
Why are you flirting with allthese other girls?
Oh, wow and, but to me it'sjust like that's just how I
communicate with people like Ilike flirt with guys yeah like I

(01:39:10):
talk to guys the same way, likewe make fun of each other and I
like give them shit yeah and Ikind of like you know what I
mean.
It's like like what am Isupposed to do?
Like hello, good to meet you.
Oh, how was your day very, veryswell.
Then you know, like what am Isupposed to do?

Speaker 1 (01:39:24):
that is dapper.
Well, I honestly feel withthose kind of things it's kind
of like what we were talkingabout earlier is like finding
your person, like you know youcan shape who you are to fit her
needs.
Or find someone that doesn'tfind that like insecure for
themselves.
Because it's like you know, alot of the time there's people

(01:39:47):
like I used to be very, very,very talkative like with people
when I would first meet them,and it was only once I got older
I kind of like started to shutup.
I'd be like I don't know thesepeople, I don't want to like
overspeak to them and stuff.
But then I would be the same.
I would associate talking asjust like, oh, you just randomly

(01:40:07):
do it.
But now I'm like, because Idon't talk as much, I do like
listen to people's words a lotmore.
So sometimes when people areover talking, I'm like what are
they overcompensating?
interesting yeah, I can'tpicture you like, not talking a
lot well, because you've got meon a podcast like normally, like
if I'm on a night you seem likea talker, though you seem like

(01:40:29):
I can talk once, I'm like in aconversation, but if you like
see me on a night out, I'm thatperson that's like when's your
birthday aries, april april what17th next week?
oh, it's coming up, yeah I hatebirthdays so so is flirting
cheating then I don't think it'scheating, but I think it's like

(01:40:51):
you would have to re-evaluatewhere you are in that position,
like if you're just like doing,like flirting, banter, whatever,
but if you're flirting with amotive and like an intention,
then it's kind of like up to youto sit back and be like wait,
why am I doing this?
Because that's probably goingto eventually lead to actual

(01:41:12):
cheating.

Speaker 5 (01:41:14):
So if your boyfriend came and said hey, last night I
flirted with this girl.
Your question.

Speaker 1 (01:41:20):
I would fucking kill him, you would kill him, I would
out of sight, out of mind.
Just don't fucking tell me.

Speaker 5 (01:41:25):
Okay, that's a good policy to have.
I think Literally Ignorancetell me okay, that's a that's a
good policy to have.

Speaker 1 (01:41:31):
Yeah, literally, because it's like ignorance is
bliss yeah exactly, and it'slike it's harmless.
So it's like I would ratherhonestly not know, literally not
know.
But it's like if you came homeand told me now it seems like
you're trying to make me jealousor trying to like get a rise
out of me for like whateverreason, but if you didn't tell
me, it's like, whatever, do whatyou want we had a we a guest

(01:41:52):
yesterday and she said thatwatching porn is cheating oh,
wow do you agree with thatopinion?
um, it's a hard one, so I don'twatch porn.
I haven't watched porn in overa year and a half, so I know

(01:42:14):
it's not cheating, but I trulythink the industry is what is
wrong with a lot of things.
And I just think it's notcheating.
But chemically, what it does toyour brain is not good.

Speaker 5 (01:42:30):
It's not good for your relationship what do you
think it does to your brain?

Speaker 1 (01:42:37):
I truly think it creates like a false idea of
like what things are meant to be.
Also, it's very like aggressive, it's very.

Speaker 3 (01:42:49):
I just I personally don't think it's good for your
brain like and people grow upwatching it and then having like
a different perception of whatthings are meant to be I think
it's mostly the physiologicaleffect it has in your brain,
because essentially what happensis there's, you know, dopamine

(01:43:10):
in your brain that gets set offand it hits these receptors and
that makes you feel happy orpleasure or whatever it is.
And with porn you can watch 20different videos of all
different kinds of sex withdifferent girls and different
things happening yeah and soyou're smacking your dopamine so
hard that then when you go backto normal sex especially if,

(01:43:32):
like a lot of kids nowadays, are, like, addicted to porn- yeah,
it's like it is.

Speaker 1 (01:43:36):
It isn't even exciting to you, yeah, and
there's a lot of problemssimulating, yeah, that's why I
just don't accept men hormones.
So what would you define femalehormones and what would you

(01:43:58):
define male hormones?

Speaker 3 (01:44:02):
Females getting mad at you for no reason.

Speaker 5 (01:44:05):
I would say emotional outbursts, yeah, I would say
outbursts.
Yeah, I would say obviouslyanger, lack of desire for sex.

Speaker 1 (01:44:25):
I literally always thought this Women need love to
want sex, men need sex to wantlove.
I know that was cool.
Yeah, and it's a really bigthing and I think it's something
that, as men and women, we'renever going to like perfectly
get it, and when you do, you do.
But it's so true and like Ifind women need that emotional

(01:44:48):
side Again.
Women need love to feel, wantsex.
Men need sex, want love.
And then people get into thiscrossroad and that's when people
probably don't respect thehormones, when it's at a bad
point, because I think when it'sgood they do.
Like a man will like hear out agirl until she's like you know,
being too much.

(01:45:08):
Then he goes, not too much.
And a girl will like respect aguy until he's like you know,
screaming and yelling and angry.
So it's only really when it'slike bad, bad, they don't but,
but.

Speaker 5 (01:45:19):
But.
The question I'm asking is likewhy?
Why is this a stigma around menhaving to accept women hormones
?

Speaker 1 (01:45:30):
I don't think there is, because, like say, for
example, like men and women areso incredible at doing like very
different things and, like youknow, there's some women that
can do what men can do, there'ssome men that can do what women
do, and then, like, there'sobviously the typical what we do
and like.

(01:45:51):
So, when I was growing, growingup, when I was like super
emotional when, like myboyfriend would have to work and
stuff, I'd be like, oh, younever have time for me, blah,
blah, blah.
Yeah, exactly, I was like thisis unfair, like you're lacking
my emotions, blah, blah, blah.
But when you get older, Ilearned, like he's working, so
he can look after me, so that Ican be happy, so that you know,
I can, like, on the weekend,spend time with him and talk.

(01:46:14):
And it's when you change yourperception.
So, in answer to what likeyou're asking, it's kind of when
you're at a point with yourselfthat you can see different
places.
Because, like, I would never if, like my man was really upset,
invalidate that, because I knowa man's life is probably a lot

(01:46:37):
harder than mine and like I canrespect that and I think with
age I just learned if I want tocomplain, if I want to be
emotional, I talk with mygirlfriends.
I just like dump it all on them.
We have like a big therapysession and I go home.
I'm like love you, babe.
What's for dinner?

Speaker 5 (01:46:55):
so in in that aspect, how much should a guy make?
Do you think like, what's theminimum you think is required
for a guy to make?

Speaker 1 (01:47:05):
it's really hard because, like one, life is so
expensive now, but truly you canmeet a man that's worth like 10
million or a man that's worth10 000.
The man with 10 000 could bemore generous, more giving, more
provider, more masculine andmore, like you know, for the
relationship than the man with10 million.

(01:47:28):
Yeah, maybe he might spend everysecond big nuggets from
mcdonald's maybe, maybe that'smy favorite meal maybe provide
middle seat on spirit no, butit's like say, for example, like
he might be, like you mighthave money, are you gonna give
it to me?
Nope exactly, so the guy with10 grand might give it to me

(01:47:50):
like but what do you mean?

Speaker 3 (01:47:51):
give it to you like?
No, I'm not asking him to giveme money, but it's like you know
what I mean.
You're saying like a sugardaddy scenario no, no, no, not
at all.

Speaker 1 (01:47:57):
What I'm saying is like you choose what you give
someone right yeah, yeah andit's not actually physically
giving money, it could just belike taking them on a trip.
Taking them out or like takingthem to dinner, or even like
getting them a flower fromfucking 7-eleven.
You could have the 10 million,not go do that the guy over
there could.
So it's like that's a reallybroad question, because you

(01:48:20):
could make all the money in theworld and still not have the
attributes to be a provider, tobe like a carer, to take like
care of a woman or even in likethat kind of avenue.
The guy with 10k.

Speaker 5 (01:48:36):
He could like literally work his ass off and
his mindset is just like I justwant to see you happy so, if I'm
hearing you correctly, whatyou're saying is you don't care
how much the guy makes, you careif he's giving with what he
makes yeah, as long as he's gotthat attribute.

Speaker 1 (01:48:52):
That's like you know.
I do have to say with a 10kthing.
I'm going to step back on thata bit because I would question
why a man only had ten thousanddollars, because it's like
where's his worker ethic?

Speaker 3 (01:49:05):
is yeah, but what if it was like this maybe he's like
manager at the mcdonald's andhe can give you as much free
McDonald's he doesn't even haveto spend his money.

Speaker 5 (01:49:16):
That's a very drastic example.

Speaker 3 (01:49:17):
Yeah, whoa.
What if he's a provider?
What if he's an?

Speaker 5 (01:49:20):
artist.
He's a musician.

Speaker 1 (01:49:22):
Yeah, or you know he plays chess.
That was so far like the otherway.

Speaker 3 (01:49:27):
You said $10,000.
Who else makes $10,000 a year?

Speaker 1 (01:49:29):
Yeah, you're literally like you want the free
food, Like is that what you'rein there for?
No, so like say.
But it's also like money is thesecond thing, Like we're going
straight to the finances.

Speaker 5 (01:49:54):
Have you met this guy and even liked him first, to
get to the point where you'rediscussing where he's working,
what he's doing?
Like, well, there's some, somewomen that only care about that,
right, okay, they care aboutwhat you drive, they care about
what you're wearing and theyjust clock you and they look at
you up and down and they look atthe car you you're driving and
they're just like yeah, justlike we look at girls and we say
she's fat, no, Not fat in a badway, but okay, you can think

(01:50:15):
that and that can last, forhowever long it can last.

Speaker 1 (01:50:19):
But when you are like sharing a house with someone,
you want to get married, youwant to have a kid, are you
really going to be like,covering your eyes, holding a
Chanel handbag, keeping to thatbit for your one life you have?

Speaker 3 (01:50:34):
So here's what happens.
So I used to have a company inthe modeling industry, right?
Yeah.
So I would see models 18, 19getting into the industry.
I would see models in themiddle and I would see models
like you know, 30s getting outRight, and what happens is,
especially in LA.
If you're a model, you haveaccess.
Thirties getting out Right, andwhat happens is, especially in
LA.
If you're a model, you haveaccess to this insane lifestyle
where, whether it's a sugardaddy, whether it's just

(01:50:56):
promoters, whether it's you'rejust getting invited to yachts,
private jets, amazing trips,right.
But most of these girls neverdeveloped like real career
skills, yeah.
So they just they model or theyact or whatever, and somebody's
paying their rents and thenthey get to 29, 30, 31.

(01:51:17):
They're not getting modelingjobs anymore and I think they
just have no other option, likethey have zero career path.
But what's even worse isthey're unwilling to go back to
like college kid coming out ofcollege living in somebody's
basement because that's all theycan afford, and like starting
as an intern because they'reused to being on yachts, yeah.

(01:51:39):
So now they have no choice.

Speaker 1 (01:51:40):
Yeah, they have a different scale and like.
That's why, like I was sayingbefore, like even with someone
like I would never date someonethat didn't have finances or
comfortability, purely because Iknow the arguments that come
with it.
But also, like you know, youwant someone that's got worth,
ethic and you know managementskills and discipline and stuff,
to obviously set themselves aplace where they can be

(01:52:03):
comfortable.
But even with that, like Itruly think, with everything in
the world, there is a place forfor everything.
So, like people go like oh, sheonly likes him because of, like
you know, his money, he onlylikes her because she's pretty,
yeah, here's the thing.
Like it's an exchange, Likethey're happy, I think it's so.

Speaker 3 (01:52:21):
I think people that are very like small-brained,
simple-minded individuals don'tunderstand our very like small
brain, simple minded individualsdon't understand.
They see either it's a golddigger or it's like a girl who
likes you for your morals,values and character, and they
don't understand.
99% of people is a gray area inbetween where there's like yeah
, like some, girls are attractedto guys with money because it

(01:52:44):
shows a level of ambition andsuccess.

Speaker 1 (01:52:45):
Exactly that's where I was trying to get at with it,
like it doesn't have to be crazy, well, but it's like it's a
energy that, like you know,they've got their shit together.

Speaker 3 (01:52:55):
but then you know, some of the like the most
wealthy men you know are soinsecure and I actually got in
an argument with my brother'swell, not wife, but fiance about
this um, where she was sayingshe's like you know, zach, in la
everybody's superficial, gotgirls just want guys for their
money.
You're gonna end up with a golddigger.
And I was like, all right,would you have talked to my

(01:53:17):
brother on the first date if hewas a homeless guy?
And she's like, no, okay, whatif he?
What if he worked at mcdonald's?
What if he lived in his mom'sbasement?

Speaker 1 (01:53:27):
but even like mcdonald's there's a place for
everyone, like we love our.

Speaker 3 (01:53:30):
No, but I'm saying I'm saying every girl has a
certain bar depending on herpersonal, which usually is based
on, like your peer group yeahand so for some girls the bar is
just like yeah, mcdonald's isfine.
For most girls mcdonald's isnot fine.
For most girls I would say likenice office job, 50, 60, 70k a
year is fine for some girlstheir bar.

Speaker 1 (01:53:50):
I dated a guy that worked at mcdonald's did you?

Speaker 3 (01:53:53):
yeah, no way crazy, let me hi we got to get to this
story in a second um and somegirls, it's 100k or above yeah
some girls they need to date amillionaire right so for someone
to say you shouldn't want a guyyou shouldn't have a bar of, I
need a guy who makes over thisamount.
It's like, well, you have a bartoo yeah everybody has a bar.

(01:54:15):
It's just an arbitrary bar thatyou just make up in your brain
the other thing is there'sanother bar that's sent.

Speaker 1 (01:54:22):
I mean sent.
There's another bar that's setand it's based on like know, a
guy with money wants to standnext to a girl.
That looks the type of way.
The maintenance on this girl,the maintenance.
I know is crazy.
Like my hair yesterday was$3,000, right, my nails are a

(01:54:45):
hundred USD.
My Botox and filler is like twothousand dollars.
My clothes I wear my fake tans,like you know, my laser hair
removal, my eyebrows, my lashesthat is not cheap and it's like,
yeah, if I didn't do all that,I probably would like look
different and then I couldprobably go into that budget

(01:55:07):
range.

Speaker 5 (01:55:08):
But it's like the guys that look that way, they
like that management is crazybut to suggest that you're
spending so much more than theguy does like I spend a lot on
my health I spent on what makeup.
That's the other, yeah but well, yeah, of course, but I spend a
lot on my health.

(01:55:29):
I spend a lot on the time thatI spend going to the gym.
Yeah, on the gym memberships oron the supplements or the you
know?

Speaker 1 (01:55:39):
that's why you've got the 19 year old the point
you're literally answering my,my question yeah, that's why
you've got the 19-year-old.

Speaker 4 (01:55:49):
I think the notion If you didn't do all that you
would be going like 26.

Speaker 5 (01:55:52):
It's like Fight Club, no, but I think the notion that
you're doing that for anotherperson is a flawed argument, not
for myself and for what.
I do it for myself.
Exactly I don't do it for my19-year-old wife.
Yeah, I do it because I careabout myself.
Yeah, it because I care aboutmyself.
Yeah, you do it because youcare about yourself.
So, so, so making that as ifsomebody else owes you as a

(01:56:13):
result of what you do foryourself, I think is a very
flawed argument no, I'm sayingit's.

Speaker 1 (01:56:20):
That's what they typically go for, that looking
girl to a certain, to a certainextent.

Speaker 5 (01:56:29):
But even that type of looking girl that they go for,
they don't go for her becausethey want to marry her, and I
think that's where the issuecomes in right.

Speaker 3 (01:56:38):
I don't think that's necessarily true it is true you
don't think guys go for hotgirls.
They also want to marry hotgirls.

Speaker 1 (01:56:45):
Yeah, we want to fuck hot girls too, but you go for
hot girls.
That's like such a mean thingto say.
If you're hot, guess what?
you're not getting fuckingmarried no, if you're, if you're
not hot, you just have to marrylike a guy who works at your
polo, because that actually thatactually like I will be so for
real is a big fear when you're agood looking girl, because
people want you, because, likeyou know, they look at you and

(01:57:06):
it's like I want that, you wantthe shiny toy.
But then it's like I don't wantwhat comes with the shiny toy
the maintenance, as well aseveryone wanting the shiny toy
when I can just get this toy,that I'm happy with this toy,
it's a quiet toy and it's chill,but I would love to play with
that toy for a little bit andthen I'll go to my chill toy.

Speaker 3 (01:57:30):
But if you were the shiny toy, but then you just had
a chill personality, then it'slike everybody would love the
shiny toy.
But most shiny toys don't havechill personalities because
they're shiny I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (01:57:44):
I think there's a lot of like, I know like a lot of
really good chicks that are no,absolutely there are, but I
think, percentage wise, I thinkit's maybe yeah, and I don't
even blame girls for this.
It's like, yeah, if I was anenvironment where, at age 18, I
was getting dms to fly to dubaifor a week on a private jet like
I probably would be a littlebit entitled it's also like

(01:58:06):
beautiful women see the worst ofmen Like you know, like walking
down a shopping center andsomeone's like you know talking
or harassing you.
So it's then hard to trust thegeneral public of men Like the

(01:58:26):
worst of all men.
Like men try and like, touchthem, talk to them and all that
and also talk to them with likewrong intention, so their all
men like men try and like, touchthem, talk to them and all that
and also talk to them with likewrong intention, so their
guards are like more up so thenthey can seem a lot more bitchy
because they just get a bit sickof it where, like some girls
that maybe like don't get

Speaker 3 (01:58:41):
as much male attention are like yay, like
really excited to get it I dateda girl one time and when we
first started dating, you know,one of my friends was like oh,
who's this girl?
Some, what's her instagram?
You know, they want to see whatshe looks like.
And so I sent it and he's likeoh dude, I know that I've met
this girl before.
Like she's a bitch or somethinglike that, and I was like taken

(01:59:01):
aback because like this girlwas like one of the sweetest
girls I ever met.
She was like very kind and Ididn't understand it until we
went to a party and I'm watchingevery single guy come up to her
and try to hit on her and shecomes off as very rude.
But then I'm also thinking tomyself, like what would you have
her do?

(01:59:22):
Pretend to entertain aconversation lead this guy on
and then you're stuck in, you're, you have to go to the bathroom
and then like go lose this guyin the club, like it's like that
is exactly like, exactly that.

Speaker 1 (01:59:34):
Like the amount of people that think I am such a
bitch.
I think that's just your face,yeah maybe, but you're like when
I'm like, oh, people think I'msuch a bitch, you're like think
no, but like when you thinkyou're a bitch.
Thank you I like I honestly, Ican own it.
Like I, I'm like that as well.

(01:59:55):
Like if I don't want to talk toyou, I won't talk to you.
I won't also like stroke yourego.
If, like, I don't need to havethe interaction, it's there.
But like if I like you and ifyou're speaking me to a genuine
like people that know me arelike you're so sweet, like I
don't get how people can thinkyou're a bitch, but exactly like
that.
If you see me in a publicsetting, it's like I mean you

(02:00:18):
would just have no time.

Speaker 3 (02:00:19):
You just spend the entire time talking to like
boring dudes about stuff youdon't care about.

Speaker 1 (02:00:24):
I'm just with my girls, yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:00:30):
Hang out with the chicks?
Yeah, literally.
So it's like are you suggestingthat gold diggers don't exist?
I think they definitely.
I think it's very low percent.

Speaker 3 (02:00:35):
Like girls who are literally, like you know,
laughing with their friends, haha ha, I'm look what I got from
this guy I'm stealing money.

Speaker 1 (02:00:44):
I think it's like one percent.
I think it's like I feel it's I, I do like I feel like there's
a place for everything, like youknow the people that are doing
that, they are providing aservice to them and like you
know that person gets to be withthat person and they're happy.

(02:01:04):
But I think in like the generaloverview.
I don't think it's like verycommon you'd be surprised too.

Speaker 3 (02:01:09):
I've met so many girls who have do the sugar
daddy thing yeah and whenthey're sugar daddy like and it
is a very much like he's likepaying the rent or like paying
like he gave her a car like thatkind of stuff, but when he like
breaks up with them or likestop seeing them the way they
talk about him you can tell theywere in love.
Like.

(02:01:29):
It's the same way they talkabout, like when a girl's like
upset because she got broken upwith an ex and she, like is kind
of like complaining about him.
But you can tell she just can'tstop thinking about him you
know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (02:01:39):
It's the same energy that I can feel well, it's also
like a lifestyle, but that'sthat's actually like, because,
like, where you live, likepaying your rent, that's your
comfortability, like I've neverhad someone pay my rent, so I
like I can't even imagine,though, when that ends so you
keep dating mcdonald's guys.
It's because I own a house whoawhoa.

Speaker 4 (02:02:02):
But anyway, just drop that in there really quick, I
don't pay rent, good for you inl la or in uh?
No, in australia yeah, so Ihaven't made rent a few years,
but when?

Speaker 1 (02:02:12):
I did rent.
It was with my ex, but we splitit okay, nice.

Speaker 5 (02:02:17):
Final question does size matter?
Um no, I truly don't think soso micropen penis, no problem,
you would do I've everexperienced that.

Speaker 3 (02:02:31):
To give a overview, yeah, those australian guys got
anacondas.
You know, y'all got all thewildlife down there that is
diabolical.

Speaker 1 (02:02:40):
No, it doesn't matter .
It doesn't matter.

Speaker 5 (02:02:42):
No, it sounds like you've been like experiencing
more, so average, so then it'sjust, it doesn't sound like
there's anything in between.

Speaker 1 (02:02:51):
You've experienced honestly, it's been so long I
can't even remember, but I feelhonestly I've liked him again.
We had that conversation whereit's like someone you like, so
then I truly don't think itmatters so somebody had a micro
penis?

Speaker 5 (02:03:07):
I don't, I can't answer that if I don't micro
penis.
Is this big?

Speaker 1 (02:03:10):
no, I know, but I don't know.
I would like to think Iwouldn't care because I love the
person do you like carrots?

Speaker 3 (02:03:20):
no do you like baby carrots?

Speaker 1 (02:03:23):
no, I heard a thing that baby carrots are just
normal carrots.
Cut really yeah, like they'renot actually grown into baby
carrots, like cut down crazy no,that's not true.

Speaker 5 (02:03:35):
Who told you that might?

Speaker 1 (02:03:35):
be, what's the no?

Speaker 3 (02:03:36):
because they don't have any skin on them, yeah
what's the guy's name?

Speaker 1 (02:03:39):
he was in like one direction or something.
He like was doing a thing andhe was, like I just found out,
baby carrots, look it up liam,I'm looking it up yeah, go um on
tiktok and say baby carrots arejust normal carrots cut there's
something called chat gpt.

Speaker 5 (02:03:54):
You could just ask the question do baby carrots
exist?

Speaker 3 (02:03:57):
yes, it's not, do they exist?

Speaker 1 (02:04:00):
we know they exist because somebody made them in a
lab we're trying to figure outif they're made in a lab or made
in nature.
I want to see that video.
What video?
The TikTok one Him saying it.
Maybe he was like taking thepiss.

Speaker 5 (02:04:21):
Oh, my God, oh, that is true, let's go.

Speaker 1 (02:04:24):
Fun fact of the day.
That's not true, baby?

Speaker 5 (02:04:26):
carrots you see in grocery stores are not naturally
small carrots.

Speaker 1 (02:04:37):
They're made from full-sized regular go damn
interesting.
You're right, he's wrong.
Hold on, hold on okay so no.

Speaker 5 (02:04:46):
So there is another answer to this.
The real baby carrots they getpulled early from the ground so
they do exist, but the ones thatyou see in the store, they're
cut which is what we're talkingabout, let's be so for real,
you're not going and picking nobaby carrot.

Speaker 1 (02:05:01):
Yeah, you ain't picking no okay.

Speaker 3 (02:05:03):
Well, I don't know if mo would pick a carrot, it
would probably be a younger one,maybe fresh out, fresh out,
fresh in the ground hey, yougotta do what you gotta do hey,
you're married, we're not sorry.

Speaker 5 (02:05:16):
Yeah, true true, that is the exact point.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show thank you fantastic.

Speaker 1 (02:05:21):
This is one of our longest shows now.

Speaker 5 (02:05:24):
So I think this is like the second longest.
We usually never go this long.

Speaker 1 (02:05:29):
You were great, thank you.
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The Toxic Appeal: Why We Desire What We Shouldn't ft. Evie - Ep.105

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Toxic Appeal: Why We Desire What We Shouldn't ft. Evie - Ep.105