What Does Success Look Like When You Create It Yourself Ft. Liv - Ep.111 - Unattainable Podcast Show

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So when you say that anybody who's been in love you
talk to and describes it thesame way, you think that they're
supposed to say the same thing.
But what if they're saying thesame thing?

Speaker 3 (00:12):
because it is the explanation of the same thing
because you can tell by how theysay it which is what they say
it in a robot voice um, I'vebeen caught up and I just flat
out told the truth and they'rejust like people like are
shocked.
They're just like, oh, I had somany people inquiring for me to
do work for them because theywere seeing the work I was doing

(00:33):
and I was like, well, I don'tactually want to work for anyone
else after this dude like you,wasted three years of my life
like you don't even like me, youdon't even like what, um?
but I think for him, like I, wasa safe place because we were
childhood friends and because wedid have such a good friendship
, like we had that bond.
I think that you know youshouldn't trust anybody, but I

(00:55):
think that women at a young ageshould be weary of men.
I think that it's just theworld we live in.
It actually turned into likequite a bit of a situation
because he could not let go ofthe relationship, which was very
confusing to me, cause I'm likeyou don't even want to be in
the relationship.
He was so gentle about it.
He was just like, well, like,are you going to say anything?
And I'm like, yeah, so, likeyou know, he's like why'd you

(01:20):
introduce me to him?
And I'm like, well, I thoughtwe were all friends.
Like I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Like I guess I didn't realize how much either one of
them liked me.
Welcome to Unattainable.
Glad to have you with us andhope you continue to be a part
of our family for theforeseeable future, and if so,
please hit that subscribe button.
I'm Mohamed Mollah here with myincredible co-host, zach Evans,
and our newest guest, livMathis.
How are you?

Speaker 3 (01:44):
doing Hi good, introduce yourself where you're
from, what you do, how old youare, so on and so forth.
Okay, I'm Olivia.
I am from Atlanta, georgia, butI've lived in LA quite a while.
I'm 20 something years old andI own a marketing agency called
your Marketing Plug plug nice.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
When'd you start that ?

Speaker 3 (02:08):
last year awesome.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah.
How did that all come about?

Speaker 3 (02:14):
um, I was working in corporate cannabis at one of the
largest well, not one of thelargest cannabis companies in
the country.
Um, and I was creative,directing there and doing all
sorts of things at the top ofthe marketing chain there, and I
had so many people inquiringfor me to do work for them

(02:36):
because they were seeing thework I was doing and I was like,
well, I don't actually want towork for anyone else after this,
so I was thinking about leavingmy job.
Basically, it's how it startedand I was like, well, if I go to
another company, I'm also goingto hate working for someone
there, so why don't I just tryto start my own thing?

Speaker 1 (02:53):
why did you hate working for someone?

Speaker 3 (02:56):
um, I don't even.
It's not really hate, it's justkind of.
I think that it is easier tolike what you're doing and feel
like you're doing something fora reason when you're doing it
for yourself and it's what youwant to do, versus someone kind

(03:17):
of micromanaging and critiquingeverything you do, especially
when you're like in a creativelane, like creative directing or
marketing.
Um, it's kind of like your ownideas that take off, instead of
your own ideas taking off forsomeone else's company and
you're making this person richerand your salary goes up, like
once or twice a year.
It's just, why not just do itmyself?

Speaker 1 (03:37):
right.
Is that?
I'm assuming that's what youfelt like when you were working
at your last job.
Yeah, okay, and so when youstarted your business, how's
that been going so far?
And just explain to theaudience like what exactly you
do?

Speaker 3 (03:52):
okay, cool.
So, um, I started a marketingagency called your marketing
plug, ymp agency, um, here inlos angeles, california.
It is mainly a cannabis basedmarketing agency, but we do have
some other clients.
We have some streetwear clients, we actually have some real
estate clients and stagingcompanies.
We actually have a wide arrayof clients, but we focus on

(04:16):
cannabis marketing, since that'swhere mine and my partner
Dawn's experience comes from.
Dawn kind of handles like the PRcelebrities, that side of
marketing and I do all of likethe creative content, social
media side.
We're fully versed.
We do everything you can thinkof, from billboards, so full

(04:38):
advertising, social media events, even events, even um, online
advertising, um, and we startedthis last summer.
She actually left the companybefore I did and she we kind of
had some clients on the side.
I was actually still workingwhen I started the company and

(04:59):
it was funny.
I remember really vividly myboss showed me a photo that I
had done for another company andwas like I want our content to
look like this, not knowing thatit was my work that I was doing
on the side and I kind of justshyly, was like okay, yeah, I
can do that.
And then in my head I was likedude, I need to start my own

(05:20):
thing like.
I'm tired of making money forsomeone else instead of taking
the full profit for myself.
So, yeah, that's pretty muchhow it all came about.
And we've been so busy becausewe're here in march and 420 the
national weed day, you know isum in april and we have clients
from here to new york to miami,so we have events all over the

(05:43):
country for 420.
Um, and it's been a littledifficult to manage.
I'm not going to lie.
We do have, like some employees, but it's mainly just my
partner, don, and I runningthings, since it's so new.
Um, so we've had like somescheduling stuff come up here
and there, but other than that,I think you, you know we're
handling it really well.

(06:03):
We've expanded really fast.
Um, like I said, we haveclients in multiple cities, not
just Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
So it's been um, it's been a journey like it's a
little hard yeah, sure, I mean,especially if only there's two
of you and then you've got, youknow, three different cities in
three different states.
How are you going to managebeing?

Speaker 3 (06:25):
yeah, on top of all of that yeah, that is something
we're learning and we're havingwe're having some growing things
with that right now actually,literally today we had a photo
shoot in new york and I was like, oh, did like someone take the
merch?
and then they're like, we'relike no one took the merch and
it's just like something thatyou, you know, it's like these
little things, but it's coolbecause we get to learn from it

(06:47):
and we get to be more preparedand better for the next time and
I just hope we like, if we keepgoing in the direction we're
going, like, everything's goingto be peachy.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
What sounds like, because the hardest part, in my
opinion, of any business isgetting the clients, getting
people to take out their walletand give you the money.
Once you have that, themanaging side is challenging,
but it's like okay, that's likedoable, you just okay.
Like we have to like hiresomeone for this.
We have to like put the pieces,but like sounds like you guys
got the hard part down, so yeah,that's where we're at now, for

(07:16):
sure.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
And then it's also like who do we hire?
Because we've tried hiring acouple of people but it's such a
like meticulous thing becauseobviously cannabis isn't
federally legal.
So there's like a lot of thingsthat you can't say on social
media.
And then like someone's postingthe wrong caption and they say
for sale or deals or somethinglike that, and then instagram
gets reported and then like wejust need someone who like

(07:38):
understands that.
But yeah, I mean other thanthat, I think, for sure, the
hard part is getting clients,but I, I would say, after our
first five clients, I was likeokay, shit, like this is
actually going to work.
You know, I was making.
I was making two times morethan I was in at my job.
And I was like, wow, like thishappened so fast.

(07:59):
You know that happened withinsix months.
And now my partner Dawn.
I looked at her and I was likeyou're going to be able to quit
your job, and now she's quittingher job.
So it's like it's pretty umit's going that's great, you
jumped right in.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, you were.
You nervous quitting your job,or are you more excited, or both
?

Speaker 3 (08:19):
both both for sure, and I also um, it was a very
toxic environment but I loved myjob and I had a great mentor at
my job Not to say like there'sno bad blood there, but I was
very excited to move forward andwork for myself and the way we
left things was kind of awkwardbut there was no way for me to

(08:44):
like get out of it without justquitting going head first yeah
and just quitting.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
So what made it toxic ?

Speaker 3 (08:53):
um, it's a corporate company and, um, the cannabis
industry is like a lot of menand they're in high positions
that they probably shouldn't bein.
So it's like I'm doing the jobof someone who has the title,
you know, but then I'm doing itand I'm not getting paid as much

(09:14):
as they are and they get thesay, the final say in things
because they're a man and I, Imean, I know it was targeted
like that because they wouldliterally say that they would
literally say what.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Like, we only want men at the top of this company.
Or we only want men in chargeat this company.
So you didn't feel like youwere going to ever be able to go
to the next level, because theywere never going to give it to
you.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
I was already at the top.
I just wasn't getting creditfor what I was doing.
I was already at the top.
I just wasn't getting creditfor what I was doing, and a lot
of my job relied oncommunicating for the owner of
the company to certain people incertain departments, and they
had toxic communication.
So then that like reflected onme, since it was my job to
communicate for them, because Ihad to figure out what this

(10:03):
person wants and make it intowhat the owner wants as well,
and I was pretty good at thatand I enjoyed doing that.
But then it kind of like thepartner switched and things
started like there was a lot offriction and I was like this is
kind of perfect timing, becauseI've already been doing my own
thing for this long and I knowthat I can do it now.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, Nice, and then okay, so so.
So then you started yourbusiness and obviously me
knowing you, I know you kind ofwere going through some health
issues during that time.
Was that, was that before youstarted your company or after?

Speaker 3 (10:41):
During, during covid um, I came down with like
autoimmune.
I don't, I didn't.
I honestly have never like,really had help.
Thank god, I've never hadhealth issues in my life before
that, but it was after a covidinfection.
I started getting like heartpalpitations and just feeling

(11:01):
super tired all the time, umwhich I now know.
I have a condition called potsand a lot of people are getting
it after covid.
There's like a bunch of studieson it, a bunch of research.
I actually have a doctor out inpalo alto now and he's like he
was the head of infectiousdisease at stanford for 20 years
.
I I genuinely like wow, thisguy's like a rocket scientist.
Every time he talks to me he'sso smart, super intelligent guy,

(11:23):
um, and he leads the researchon like post-viral conditions
and so it's just it's reallybeing looked into and there's
not much you can do.
So I just had to learn tocontrol my nervous system and
start doing brain retraining toteach, like myself, how to get
better and how to try toovercome like a chronic

(11:48):
autoimmune condition what is itspecifically that happens?
um.
So when I stand up, my not nowI'm like pretty healthy now, um,
but when I'm in a flare-up orwhatever, um, my blood pressure
is actually really low and itwill drop upon standing up and
then my heart rate will shoot up.
So my blood pressure isactually really low and it will
drop upon standing up and thenmy heart rate will shoot up.
So my blood pressure goes downand my heart rate goes up and a

(12:10):
lot of people faint.
I've I've only fainted a fewtimes, but, um, it's a pretty
like, it's a pretty difficultcondition because you can't
exercise.
You have to eat healthy so youdon't cause inflammation which I
kind of already do those thingsanyway, except I can't exercise

(12:31):
as I would like to now.
I can only kind of do likegentle yoga or can't do anything
like high intensity, because myheart rate will go, for example
, like if I was in a flare-upnow and I was sitting down and I
stood up, my blood pressurewould drastically drop and my
heart rate would be like 150.
Oh, wow.
Which is just insane.
And so when that first startedhappening, I was like, oh my God
, am I dying?

(12:51):
Like you know why, is my heart?

Speaker 2 (12:54):
rate 150?
.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
I'm literally just standing here.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
It's crazy you say that this girl that I'm seeing
has the same thing she has POTSand she said, it's she was like,
yeah, it's super rare she'd belike, I'll be like.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
It's actually not, though that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
There's like 22 million people with after covid
pots crazy in the us, I don'teven know about worldwide.
Yeah, she said she like if shelays down and she stands up, she
like can't see for a coupleseconds and then a vision kind
of comes back and the heat canalso make you pass out.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
There's all kinds of weird things that come with it.
I mean, it's still beingstudied, so but that's just like
, personally, what happened tome.
But I ended up going back tosouth carolina to stay with my
dad and my brother.
My brother actually came hereand drove me across the country
because we didn't know what wasgoing on.
And my family knows I'm like,I'm like ambitious, I'm a

(13:44):
go-getter, I'm like very.
They know my personality.
So when I was like in my bed,bedridden and just not able to
do anything, they were like theythought I was dying too.
They were so worried.
So my dad flew out to make sureI was like gonna survive.
And then he was like I have togo back to work.
What do you want to do?
And I was like well, I don'twant to, like you know, miss out

(14:07):
on work or anything, so I'mgoing to stay here and see if I
get better.
That didn't happen.
My brother flew here and droveme across the country why did
you just fly?
because we didn't know, likewith the heart, stuff you know,
we didn't know, like ifelevation would affect it or
anything like that.
And at this time I genuinelywas having like out of body
anxiety because I thought I was,I thought I had something.

(14:29):
That was like I had two days tolive, um, because it happened.
So suddenly it's just like oneday I was just well, um, but
yeah, he drove me.
I stayed with them for aboutthree months and it was at his
house that I was so bored.
I was just like cooking andcleaning for my dad and brother
and just hanging out with themand I started working on it.

(14:49):
Then, um, while I was goingthrough those health things was
like, wow, if I can't figure outwhat's going on with my health,
I'm gonna need to figuresomething else out for work,
because I can't be sitting in anoffice from nine to five every
day with these health issues.
So started off as plan b andbecame planning, I guess wow,

(15:10):
and then so.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
So during this time, were you still doing the agency
work with dawn, or was she likepicking up most of the work
while we were trying to figureout?

Speaker 3 (15:21):
no, I was still doing it.
Yeah, we were calling clients.
I was like bedridden, callingpeople like hey, yeah, like we
have this eight thousand dollarpackage and like don's like, are
you okay?
I'm like, yeah, I'm good, noworries.
But it was like something tolook forward to, because at that
time I was so bored, I was justso bored and I was so depressed

(15:41):
, and I feel like it almosthelped me get better and helped
me realize that there's likelife after and during chronic
illness.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah, so when we met, you were modeling.
Obviously, that's why you movedto LA.
Yeah, and then.
So tell us about that.
Tell us about your experiencefrom the time First of all.
Tell us about your experiencewhen you moved to LA from the
time first of all, tell us aboutyour experience when you moved
to la and then how that all hasbeen and just the overall your

(16:09):
experience with the modelingindustry industry man, okay,
yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
So I was like 15, 14 or 15 and I was having a really
bad day and my friend was like,let me pick you up and take you
to the mall.
And I was like, okay, so we goto the mall.
This guy's like following usaround the mall in south
carolina in south carolina.
Yeah, so I, my family, movedfrom atlanta, georgia, to south

(16:35):
carolina and I don't mean thisto come off in like a hateful
way, but I absolutely like, donot like south carolina.
The whole state just needs tolike yeah, not exist yeah there
is nothing and no one of valuethere besides I think both the
carolinas, north carolina andsouth carolina.
North carolina has beautifulmountains, north carolina is
pretty good like I wouldn't saypretty good, but you know I mean

(16:58):
, it's much better than southcarolina there's like three okay
things there, you know.
So I was in culture shock whenwe moved from atlanta to south
carolina.
I was like everyone here islike very uneducated and like
racist not only that.
But like everyone thinks like awoman's purpose there is to
like have children, and I'm likeI don't in my head, I'm like a

(17:21):
teenager and I'm like I don'teven the thought of children
like is disgusting.
I'm still a child.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah, I'm still a teenager and I'm like I don't
even the thought of childrenlike is disgusting.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
I'm still a child.
Like, yeah, I'm still a child.
And people are like, yeah, youshould like start having babies
at 17.
I'm like, whoa, what?
So?
Yeah, when we moved fromatlanta to south carolina, it
was just like over for me.
I knew I didn't want to stay insouth carolina.
We were walking around the mall.
This guy's following us and I'mlike we got to figure out why
this guy's following us and myfriends like you should just
turn around and say something.
So we go into a store, so thatthere's like someone there to

(17:47):
see.
I turn around.
I'm like, can I help you withsomething?
And he's like, um, have youever tried modeling before?
And we're.
And of course we're just like,oh my god, this guy's a freaking
creep like.
He's like have you ever triedmodeling before?
We're like 14.
And we're like, no, of coursenot.
And then he's like, well, Iknow like I don't mean to scare
you or anything, but I just wantto give you my card.

(18:07):
And I'm like I took it and I gohome and I tell my dad.
My dad, by the way, is like mybest friend.
He was so supportive of thewhole thing, even though I
thought it like I was gonna getkidnapped.
My dad looked into it and hewas like hey, like I think this
is a real thing and I know youlike don't want to be in south
carolina and I know you likefeel like you just want to do

(18:30):
something with your life.
I think you should call them, Ithink we should call them.
So we did, my dad called them.
They're like yeah, we're havingthis showcase in orlando,
florida, and a showcase isbasically where you walk with a
number on you and agencies fromaround the world sit there and
they give you callbacks.
So you like walk down a runwayand you have a number, um, so we

(18:52):
go to that.
My dad takes me, drives me allthe way to Orlando.
Um, I got like 12 out of 15callbacks, I think, and I
instantly signed with a manager15 callbacks, I think and I
instantly signed with a manager,signed with an agency, and I
think I started off like tryingto finish school and stay close
to home.
So we started going to likeCharlotte, charleston, atlanta,

(19:15):
for all these modeling gigs.
But then, when I was 17, my dadwas like I think you should
just fully like okay, you know,you have all these agencies in
different places.
I think you should like get outof here.
You know, and my agency here inla flew me here, put me up in an
apartment and at first I waslike wow, like I'm a celebrity,
I can't believe these people areflying me out.

(19:36):
I'm gonna live in hollywood,all this stuff.
First of all, I pull up to amodel apartment in sherman oaks.
So I'm like this is la and Istart looking around like okay,
cool, whatever.
Then I walk in.
It's like a studio with threebunk beds and one bathroom.
There's like six girls in there.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
I'm like, okay, oh, they didn't tell you that before
.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
No, they're like, yeah, we're gonna get you an
apartment, we're gonna pay foryour ticket.
And I'm like, wow, this is lit.
And then I get there and I'mlike, so, do we all share the
same bathroom?
There's like six of us,someone's sleeping on a futon.
Um, it was cool, it was um, itbuilt character for sure.
But yeah, I started going tocastings in LA and, honestly, I

(20:17):
I was very lucky.
My modeling career likeinstantly kind of took off.
I started modeling for, likeVogue, dior mark jacobs.
Um, I was short for a model.
I was 5'8 so it was challengingfor me.
At times, good clients would belike oh, you're not tall enough
, I could never do runway.
Um, which I think is funny nowbecause, like you know, these

(20:38):
influencers are like 5'2 aredoing runway right um, but yeah,
at the time they were stilltrying to like hold on to that
like supermodel era of the 90s,so, but it was really cool.
And then, you know, I got signedin new york, miami, everywhere
else as well.
So I traveled around, I livedeverywhere that you know there's

(20:58):
like a major city basically inthe us, um, and it was a great
experience.
Like I would not change it foranything.
It was pretty cool.
Also, by the way, like duringthis time I had to support
myself.
So if I wasn't modeling, Iwould have to get all these side
jobs.
So it was like cater waitering,I worked at a gym I, um, I

(21:23):
don't even know I've had so Idid dog walking, I did house
sitting, I worked as aproduction assistant, I was a
personal assistant.
I had all these odd jobs on theside, because sometimes it
would slow down or sometimes youwould owe your agency money
from staying in the modelingapartment and they would play
you'd have to pay for, like yourplane tickets and pay them back
for things, or like a driver,um, so, yeah, I think, uh, at

(21:46):
one point I was in like twentythousand dollars debt to my
agency and I was like, dude, Ibetter fucking book something
because I can't pay this.
And I did it.
Just, it happened, you know,but it was.
It was scary because you'relike a teenager and you're like,
oh my god, I'm twenty thousanddollars in debt, like I'm 17,
but yeah, um, it was a coolexperience, I think.

(22:09):
When I started to get around theage of like 22, 23, I was
seeing all these girls that werea few years older than me that
were still trying to model andit just kind of wasn't really
working out for them and theydidn't have any other experience
.
And granted, I had all theseside job, side hustle
experiences, but like that's notgonna pay your bills for life,

(22:30):
you know.
So I just started trimming weedon the side.
My friends were like, hey, likeget two hundred dollars per
pound you trim.
And I'm like, oh, how hard couldit be?
It's actually pretty hard.
And I started doing that on theside and then I started working
in the grow and like learningabout the plant Fast forward.
I like did that for two yearson the side and then I was like

(22:54):
I think I want to like fullylike pause on modeling and like
I'll take direct bookings, but Idon't want to be like going to
castings every day and stufflike that.
I want to fully pause on thatand kind of learn about cannabis
because I saw how many peoplewere making so much money in
that industry and it wassomething that you know, I had
this experience in and I didn'tmind it at all.

(23:15):
You know it was actually reallyfascinating to me.
So I kind of dove headfirst inand just was like I'll just get
a bud tender job.
So I started off as a budtender at the place same place
that I started off as a budtender, I ended up becoming the
marketing director and then Iended up becoming the head of
purchasing.
So I was purchasing for theirchain of stores doing that.

(23:38):
And then that is how the othercompany I worked for found me.
Because they were looking atthat company.
It was like find out who'sdoing that marketing and that
stuff.
And then I got an offer fromthem and I went corporate and I
kind of like climbed that ladderfor like the last five years
and that was that was the end ofmodeling.
You know, I still actually Ijust had to shoot yesterday, um,

(24:01):
for like a hair company.
So I definitely still will doit if there's like a direct
booking.
But I'm like I'm not gonna be30 years old like going to
castings.
I'm just not I've always wanted.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
So.
So, uh, the first model I datedwhen I was maybe like 25 or
something.
I remember she had a shoot inum the oc and it was kind of
like sketchy, like she's, like Idon't know, like they kind of
dm me like I don't really knowwhat this is.
So I like went with her to makesure it was like all legit and
it was an eight hour shoot.
And I remember she got thereand it was like okay, put on

(24:36):
these clothes, shot, shot, shot,shot, shot, boom, put on these
clothes.
Same five, five poses again.
And I just remember thinkinglike is this enjoyable?
Like, like to me?
I'm like, I'm literally likesitting on my phone, like this
looks like a nightmare.

Speaker 3 (24:52):
You actually stayed for the shoot.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah, Well, I was in the OC.
I guess I could have like gone,like you know it's good.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
I think any guy that dates a model should have to
stay through at least one shoot,especially if it's e-comm,
because e-comm is the is the.
You also have like maybe fourhours to shoot, so you're
shooting like 500 outfits infour hours, it was just go go go
yeah, and it's, it's.
People don't realize how like.
Well, first of all, there'stimes when it can be like

(25:22):
demeaning, you know.
They're like, oh, the clothesdon't fit you, you know, or
something like that, or like, oh, you have a breakout today like
demeaning.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
you know, they're like oh, the clothes don't fit
you, you know, or something likethat, or like oh, you have a
breakout today.

Speaker 3 (25:28):
Like, why don't you tell us?
And it's like dude, I don'tknow, I'm like this shit was
like a military drill.
Yeah, Clothes Go, go go.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Fucking like it was crazy.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
Yeah, it can be like that.
And then they also, they andalso they don't want to pay you
overtime, so they're going torush the shoot rather than be
like, oh, take your time, andthen also, a lot of the times
you're also not allowed to eat.
That's another thing that wasunspoken.
We don't really talk about it,but there are literally shoots
that there would be a sign thatwas like models, please do not
touch the food.

(25:59):
I can't make this up.
I think I literally still havea picture of one that I took,
but you know.
So, when a company would likepay for your lunch, well, first
of all, they would usually likeorder you a salad without even
asking what you wanted.
But if a company would pay foryour lunch, you'd be like, oh my
God, like thank you, You'd justbe so grateful to be able to
eat in this eight hour day andyou're like, oh, like, what

(26:20):
about?
the food over there.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
They're like no, no, no, don't touch the food over
there.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
No, absolutely, that's for the hungry people.
Yeah, not for you.
One time I was standing in forJennifer Lawrence on a shoot for
Dior and they had like Costcocatering, and by catering I mean
granola bars and fruit and likerandom like stuff and like some
type of like off brand coffeeon our side and then on her side

(27:08):
for her and like her team, theyhad Starbucks and like all the
good stuff and she brought me astarbucks coffee.
She literally was like becauseI was like, oh, the coffee's so
gross and I guess she overheardme and she brought me a
starbucks coffee and I was likeyou're the nicest person I've
ever met in my life.
Like I was like in shock.
But that was just like a normalday of modeling, to be honest.
You kind of just normalize thosethings yeah I have two other

(27:28):
like really good friends, ollieand mingy, and mingy's still
like heavily modeling.
She's like one of the mainmodels for nike and um.
I was with them the other dayand we were talking about the
things we normalized that werejust not okay in like modeling.
I'd be like, yeah, sometimes,like even today, I don't really
care about modeling anymore, butsometimes I'll look in the

(27:49):
mirror.
I'm like, oh my God, like I'mso bloated or I'm so fat, and
like, obviously we know I'm not,you know so, but it's like
those things stay with you foralmost forever, cause I was
modeling for like eight to 10years.
So, it's like, still to this day, I see things and I'm just or,
if I have a breakout, I freakout.
I'm like, wait, this actuallydoesn't matter, because, like

(28:10):
I'm not doing anything thatrequires me to not have a
breakout, but it's just crazyhow things stay with you from
that time yeah, but that's whatI'm like curious about.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Like is it fun because so many girls want to be
model?
Is it fun?
Or is it like the status oflike being like I'm a model look
, look how hot I am.
They chose me over all the uglygirls because I'm hotter.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
It's like the stat I would say a little bit of both,
to be honest.
Like I remember, like when Ifirst came to la I might have
been when I first met you, butwe pulled up to like this place
called supper club and it was 50cents birthday and I was like
17, in the middle of like ahollywood nightclub and it was
it was 50 cents birthday partyand I was like, oh my god, I've
made it.
I had like two dollars in mybank account.

(28:55):
I'm like I've literally made it,I'm at 50 cents birthday party
and I'm 17.
I remember posting it oninstagram and all the girls from
back home were commenting on itlike this is so trashy.
Like you're in a nightclub andyou're only 17 and like all this
stuff and you're jealous yeah,I remember feeling like, oh,
haters, like you're so jealousthat I'm like a hot model now,
and it's like the reality was Iliterally had like two dollars

(29:16):
to my name and I was living inan apartment with six other
girls like, and we werebasically fighting over jobs,
like we were all going to thesame castings.
You know, I'm like, is someonegonna put an air in my shampoo?
Or like it's, it's, it'ssomething to think about.
But I would say that it's alittle bit of both.
I honestly there are times thatI did have fun and you know

(29:37):
some of my lifelong friends Imet modeling like I met during
that time of my life or I metthrough a photo shoot my hair
girl.
Actually I just saw heryesterday.
She's been doing my hair sinceI was 15 and I lived in atlanta
because I started modeling thereand she also moved to la, so
she's done my hair these whole,like every year since I was 15

(29:58):
crazyin atlanta and los angeles and
she's like you know, that'ssomeone that I've known for so
long.
I feel like there's just somany people that are a part of
my life that I can't imagine nothaving in my life, that I met
through modeling.
So that part of it is fun.
And when you get to shoot withfriends, or if it's like I think
the most fun I've had is ontest shoots, which is like you
kind of get the opportunity toactually shoot things that you

(30:21):
want to shoot, rather than e-com, which is the least fun job, um
, and then even some of thebigger campaigns are fun.
If it's not to, you know, likeif it's not december and you're
shooting swimwear, or it's notsummer and you're shooting fur,
um, but I think it's a littlebit of both.
Looking back on it, I'm notafraid to admit that like you

(30:43):
kind of get this thing in yourhead that you're like wow, I was
chosen to be the face ofwhatever you know.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
It's like it's actually not that glamorous um,
when you started going intocannabis, um what did your
family?
How did your family?

Speaker 3 (31:03):
react?
They kind of like didn't reallycare.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
Oh, it didn't.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
I'm like super close to my dad and he is like pretty
accepting of, like anything Iwant and supportive also of
anything I want to do that hethinks is going to either bring
me happiness or help him retireearly.
So he's like, oh, cannabis,like yeah, there's money in that
right cool, like go for it.

(31:29):
You know I.
I remember him like bringing itup and thinking it's weird.
I remember when I startedbecause I used to smoke it too
now I don't consume cannabis forthe most part, but I remember
him being like, oh like, pleasejust don't become a pothead or
something like that.
You know he, but he wasn't verylike, he's a pretty open-minded
guy.
Yeah, he wasn't very judgmentaland he knows that I'm

(31:52):
responsible for the most part.
So he kind of just trustswhatever.
I'm up to or doing.
I think he was shocked for sure.
He's like what do you mean?
You want to quit modeling andstart working in cannabis?

Speaker 2 (32:03):
I literally say to LA you want to start selling drugs
?
Yeah, what do you mean?
You want to quit modeling andstart working in cannabis?
I literally say you to LA, youwant to start selling drugs?
Yeah, like.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
I say you to LA to become a famous model, and now
you're selling weed.
Are you shitting me?

Speaker 1 (32:12):
How come you didn't, how come you didn't start doing
OnlyFans?

Speaker 3 (32:17):
Um, I just personally don't like see myself in that
light.
I didn't want that for myself.
It's not like I fully supportwhatever women want to do, like
I support women's rights andwrongs and I will rights and

(32:37):
wrongs yeah, no, literally.
I will defend a woman till theday I die, like I don't care
what she did I don't care but itjust wasn't for me, like I am
just not like a hyper sexualperson, so I feel like it would
make me depressed and it wouldalso I have a really hard time
like um being intimate or sexualwith someone that I'm not like

(33:01):
completely in love with to behonest, like I don't even have
like one night stands, I don'teven have.
That's just like not.
I'm just not comfortable youknow, um, but I know a lot of
people that did and they arelike rich off only fans.
I'm like good for you, but it'sjust not something I think I
could do you said you woulddefend a woman regardless of

(33:22):
what they did.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
What?
Why do you?
Why is that?

Speaker 3 (33:27):
that was kind of a joke but um, like obviously
there's, there's like some linesthere, but some lines I just I
love women like I'm a girl'sgirl.
The the greatest people I'veever known in my life are my
girlfriends.
They it's just a totallydifferent relationship than with
a man.
Like we're just different.

(33:48):
You know, like men and womenare different and I feel like
the relationships that I holdwith women are so deep and pure
that I just always, like I'mgonna always have a girl's back,
no matter what you know it'sironic, because because, like
you're, you're very close toyour dad.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
Um, obviously you have a brother and I know you
have a sister and I and I havealways known you to kind of um
be a feminist in a way.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
You know, yeah, but I I never knew, like what made
you feel that way, like whatkind of triggered it, I guess I
think the fact that I do havegreat men in my life is what
made me feel that way, because Isee how they act and how they
respond and how they've treatedme like.
Some girl was telling me theother day like her dad like

(34:44):
yelled at her and would throwthings at her and I'm like I
can't even remember in my mindlike one time that my dad ever
raised his voice no, and mybrother the same, like they both
have.
Like I think the fact that theyalso don't trust men is what
made me like kind of, you know,like there's no dad or brother
in the world that I know that'slike wants their sister or their

(35:04):
daughter, like around a roomfull of men you know, like most
men, most dads are likeprotective of their daughters
and it's like, well, who are youprotecting your daughter from?
and he's like men.
It's like you know what I mean.
Like it's like.
But I I there are some greatmen and I love men.
I think they're cool, but Ijust think that they're not

(35:26):
necessary for a woman to succeed.
They're not.
You don't need a man, and Ithink, like at the in this time
period, it's really important topush women to like have careers
and do the things they want todo, rather than like breed
children and like clean up ahouse all day long.
If that's what you want to do,great cool, good for you.
But I think that a lot of peoplefall, a lot of women fall, into

(35:49):
that lifestyle because ofsociety and like the norms and
things that are pushed on themfrom a very young age.
Because I remember moving toSouth Carolina and like even my
teachers would be like, oh, like, wait till you grow up and have
kids.
And I'm like I'm 12, like youknow, it was just like.
It's a very like, it's a veryout of the box thing to like

(36:11):
think about and realize.
But I think that my closerelationships with the men in my
life is what drive me to be,because I know it's possible.
I know it's possible for men tobe like this good of a person.
But then I I've been also.
I was a model.
I've been in these situationswhere, like I know, my drink was
probably roofied.
I know, like all these thingsthat I've seen men do throughout

(36:35):
the years that just make me youknow more um trying to think of
the right word, that make memore hesitant to like be
trusting of them and like pushfor people to be like yeah,
women should trust men it's alittle like hard to say, that

(36:58):
you know, like, if you had adaughter, do you think you would
tell her like you should fullytrust, like men?

Speaker 1 (37:04):
I think I, I think you would tell her like you
should fully trust, like men, Ithink I would tell her that she
shouldn't trust anyone.

Speaker 3 (37:09):
Yeah, that's true, that's true.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
I don't think gender has anything to do with trust,
because I think anybody iscapable of stabbing you in the
back, regardless of their gender.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
For sure, but not anybody is capable of like
murdering and raping you Like.
Most of the time, if you lookat statistics, it's not women
who like do that to women, youknow.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
And if it was like a girl raping a dude, the guy
would probably be okay with it.
He'd be like no, that was kindof fun.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
I mean, maybe I don't know for sure, but I don't
think that's okay either.
You know like there's a lot ofthat.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Actually that's okay either.
You know like there's a lot ofthat.
Actually that's not truethere's.
Does that happen?

Speaker 3 (37:47):
yeah, that's joking no for sure, a girl raping a guy
yeah, for sure, girls likeroofie men and and rob them and
stuff like that oh, it happensoften in new york.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, I think that's like a big like never mind no,
no, like physically, yeah, yeah,but that does happen.
A girl robbed me, she didn'tieme.
Wait what do you mean, shedidn't roofie you, she stole
$175 and my Dave Buster's giftcard or power card.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
Oh my God, how did that happen?
Like what was the situation?

Speaker 2 (38:11):
I mean I just went to sleep Like we like hooked up.
I went to sleep, woke up in themorning.
And it was gone spend that atsome point.
And then I saw my dave andbuster's power card was gone.
I was really close to enoughpoints for the remote control
car.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
So I was like really upset about it.
What is the reason that someonewould take a dave and buster's
like did you?
Is that where you guys went ona date?
Like where?
Why would she take that?

Speaker 2 (38:35):
that's such a it's probably, like I mean, I thought
you'd take like my credit cards, but probably you'd get caught
with that, but like maybe shetook the money.
What else can I steal?
Driver's license doesn't doanything for me.
Okay, well, I could use hispoints.
You know, I could get like astuffed animal or something, I
don't know.
Oh my God.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
I don't understand girl brains.
I don't understand it.
I for sure agree with Mo.
I think that you know youshouldn't trust anybody, but I
think that women at a young ageshould be weary of men.
I think that, uh, it's just theworld we live in, like it's
just reality and um, but that'snot to say that young men
shouldn't be weary of women.

(39:12):
They should like also.
You know, I think that yeah,but the.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
You mentioned something with regards to, like
you know, the murder rate, the,the.
I think I understand whatyou're saying, but that's,
that's within the heterosexualrelationships, but actually
lesbians have the highest rateof domestic violence in
comparison to other othergenders.
So it's, it's lesbians firstand then heterosexuals and then

(39:38):
gay men.
So you know it's.
I think the perception that youhave with regards to, you know,
not being able to trust menobviously stems from being a
part of an environment where,you know, the, the men sort of
have taken advantage of thestate, that, the status that

(40:03):
they have you know kind of likeyou know in your work
environment, use you in order toget the credit or whatever.
So then in that sense, you'relike I can't trust these people,
and I'm assuming a part of italso comes from the
relationships that you had inthe past that made you feel like
you know somebody cheated onyou or somebody you know
shouldn't, you shouldn't havetrusted with you know your heart

(40:23):
and your love and they just,you know, broke that trust, so
gave you, gave you that, youknow, perception.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
Yeah, I think, um sorry, when I was talking about
statistics I meant like not inrelationships, like just in
general, like men versus women,like I'm not sure of like the
relationship to statistics, butI know like, like basis, like
basis, you know, like men versuswomen like women aren't usually
like.
I wouldn't be afraid if I'mlike in a in an elevator with a

(40:52):
woman, for the most part likesure, at 3 am and I think that
fear typically comes from thefact that men are, you know,
physically stronger than women.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
So you know it.
It's naturally normal to feellike, hey, as a beautiful woman
in la, where you could be nextto a guy that you know, alone
with him somewhere in a, in avery tight space.
It's like I I need to be awareat all times and I think that's
just in a very tight space.
It's like I need to be aware atall times and I think that's

(41:24):
just.
It's unfortunate to to feelthat way.
But you know, girls get catcalls all the time and and I
think that kind of makes peoplefeel like, okay, I don't know
what this person is going to doto me and I don't know if I'm
going to be able to like defendmyself if something does happen.

Speaker 3 (41:47):
For sure, you know there's times when I've been in
the elevator with like a fivefoot five man that's like skinny
, that I it's.
It's just uncomfortable becauseyou know what men are capable
of, because not only like haveyou.
I've personally never likeexperienced that, thank God, but
it's just something that I'veseen happen to my friends.
Like you know, one of like afriend of a friend was roofied

(42:10):
at an after party and droppedoff dead at the hospital a
couple of years ago.
So these are things that Iliterally see and things that
you know I've kind of likethings that I've seen happen
around me or that have beenaround me for like a long time.
I don't really I can't say if itwould stem from any of my past
relationships.
I don't.
I've only been cheated on onceand the guy was gay.

(42:34):
He was hooking up with men,yeah, so I was in a relationship
for three years me about todrop my war.
I was in a relationship forthree years with someone that I
actually knew from my childhood.
We grew up together, um, and Ifound out that he was seeing men
behind my back.
So I never really looked at itas like, oh, he cheated on me

(42:56):
and he broke my heart.
I was like, oh wow, like I feelsorry for him that he feels
like he has to hide this and he,like you know, can't be himself
, like.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
I didn't think it was a me thing at all, I was just
like you know so it was almostbetter from your like emotional
standpoint as opposed to himlike cheating on you with a girl
I wouldn't say better.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
I was still really like I mean it's kind of more of
a mindfuck because you're justlike there's so many things you
go through, but the end emotionbecause I went through a lot and
the end emotion and he alsokept lying throughout the the
whole process.
So I this is a little bit crazy, but I made a fake account on
said dating app and I pretendedto be someone else and like even

(43:42):
got a fake phone number, textedhim from the fake phone number
like made sure 100 that he wasgay gay.
Like I mean, I didn't know whatelse to do because it would be
like I would.
Okay, here's the thing.
I would catch little things,like little strays, and he'd be
like, oh, like you know, youdon't know how hard it is for me

(44:02):
.
I had a porn addiction andduring my porn addiction I
became attracted to weird thingsbecause I was alone as a child,
or this happened to me as achild, and so I'll just keep
believing him and I'm like areally understanding person.
Like you know me.
I kind of like just acceptpeople as they are, like I'm not
someone who is gonna judge youfor almost anything besides like

(44:26):
who you are as a person.
So I was like, okay, that makessense, like I understand, sure
you know.
And then something else wouldcome up.
It was like he was hanging outwith this guy that he didn't
know, that he met on theinternet and they were both
pilots and I, and.
But the guy was like openly gayand I'm like, okay, well, you

(44:49):
know, that's not weird.
A straight man I think thatshould be more normalized
straight men hanging out withgay men, like if you're friends
with him, like cool, whatever.
Like I didn't think anything ofit.
Then he started likedisappearing in the night and
going to that guy's house andlike just weird.
And I was like okay, like atthis point, this is not.
And then he was havingbehavioral things, like he was

(45:09):
really angry all the time and hewould like snap on things.
And I'm like there's somethinggoing on inside of you that is
causing you to act like this andI think I know what it is, but
you would just lie.
So I, yeah, I ended up makingthe fake account.
I had fake photos, fake phonenumber, everything, and then
when he pulled up to meet theperson, it was me instead.
What the fuck?

(45:30):
that's, and I was like I cannotbelieve that you lied to me
about all this and the questionsI was asking on.
The text message was like Icannot believe that you lied to
me about all this and thequestions I was asking on the
text message was like there's noway you can lie about it.
Like I was like, have you donethis before?
And he's like yeah, and I'mlike have he was going to like
to like gay sex parties in LA.
Like he knew he was textingthis person, which was me, all

(45:54):
this, like spilling the teaabout everything he was doing
and everything he's done in thepast.
And so he pulls up and he's andit's me and he's like horrified
, which like now I feel bad thatI did that to him a little bit,
but I'm also like dude like youwasted three years of my life
like you don't even like me, youdon't even like like what, um?

(46:15):
but I think for him, like I wasa safe place because we were
childhood friends and because wedid have such a good friendship
, like we had that bond.
So for him, like I was kind ofthe perfect cover-up.
And now it's even more crazy.
He's dating another woman andthey've been together for like
two years and it's like it's notmy place to insert myself in
that and let her know I wish Icould, but like that journey for

(46:39):
me has ended and like his karmais his own, you know, but that
was probably like my craziest.
Okay, hold on.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
That's a lot to unpack here, my mind is
absolutely Me, trying to justmove on.
My mind is blown right now.
I didn't even know this.
I okay, okay, hold on, I needto.
I need to like frame my thoughtprocess here okay okay, so

(47:11):
three years you guys are havingsex, yeah, okay, so he's
sexually able to perform finewith you.

Speaker 3 (47:23):
So actually I did want to say that Maybe he is
bisexual.
Okay.
It's.

(47:44):
I think that there is a pointwhere there's so much
self-hatred for, like, what youare and who you are that maybe
you're not bisexual, you are gayand you're just.
You just don't want to be thatso badly, because the way he
would act and the things hewould say and the things he
would do and the things I wouldcatch him doing weren't giving
bisexual because, I'm bisexual.
I don't know if you knew that.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
I'm bisexual yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
And it just wasn't that.
It was like full blown, like hewasn't texting other women at
all.
He wasn't.
You know, if you're a cheater,probably going to cheat with men
and women if you're bisexual,but that wasn't the case.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
So Okay, bisexual, but that wasn't the case, so
okay.
So I think, I think the part ofa story is missing here in
between, from from like himgoing to the guy's house to you
making an account becausebecause, regardless of what
intuition a woman has, that's a,that's a big fucking leap to be
like this guy's hanging outwith some gay guy and then, like

(48:35):
, at no point my wife is goingto be like, oh, you went hang
out with this gay guy, like youmight be gay, like I just don't
think that.
So there's like somethingthere's a lot happening.

Speaker 3 (48:43):
Okay, I kind of blacked out, but I'm trying to
remember like it was.
Oh yeah, it was me finding thelike porn on his phone okay, and
then uh, so he had gay porn hehad he had, yes, and he had
accounts on taimi.
Taimi, which is like a widelyknown I don't, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
I've never heard of that one.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
I've heard of grinder it's like grinder, but women
also use it, I feel like grinderis kind of like for gay men but
lesbians and bisexual peopleuse Tamey, I don't know how to
say it.
So, yeah, I had found thosethings.
And then I had found in his ohmy God, I keep remembering
things.
Okay, in his email he wasresponding to Craigslist ads for

(49:30):
said things, sexual things,like that were.
It was just all these things.
And he would tell me like, oh,I'm only responding to that like
, but I'm not doing it.
It was just like a cycle of himsaying it was a porn addiction,
rather than what it actuallywas, which was, like him,

(49:52):
infidelity and his sexuality,and he would deny, like he would
deny that he's attracted to men.
He would deny that he'sattracted to trans women.
He would deny that he's, like,attracted to anyone but women so
I believed.
You know what I mean like you.
You want to give someone thebenefit of the doubt, especially
because I knew him since wewere kids, like I've literally

(50:14):
known the guy since I was like13 years old right.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
Um, you're like, why would you lie to me?
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (50:19):
I'm like and it's just not something I expected,
especially knowing him so longtoo, knowing his family, knowing
his mom, him knowing my familyhe grew up around my family as
well, so I just didn't know thatsomeone that's been in that
position with you in life wouldwant to deceive you so badly you
know it's like a betrayal.
That's, I think you saidearlier, like it was better than

(50:39):
cheating with women.
It was like more, like a morepainful betrayal because of that
, yeah but I will say that Imaybe that's why I viewed it as
like, not a me thing, because itwasn't like I was a great
partner.
I, during the pandemic he hadlost his job.
He was a pilot and he lost hisjob.
I fully supported himfinancially.

(51:01):
I let him stay with me untilthe point where I was catching
on to things.
I was like you need to findyour own place.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
We still continued the relationship after that
until I actually found out, butI was a great partner to him, so
I knew that it wasn't me rightif had he come to you and said
hey look, I think I'm bi, or youknow whatever, like started you

(51:28):
know, start off with I'm bi,would you have continued the
relationship?
Well, no, because of theinfidelity, but what had he come
to you before that and said,hey, I'm by fidelity and said
I'm by.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
I mean yeah, like if you're good to me, you're good
to me.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
Like if you're gonna, would you have?
Would you have been okay withhim having sexual relationships
with with other men?

Speaker 3 (51:55):
while you guys were together.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
Okay, no, no so that's just not okay no, yeah,
that's the other way around.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
Yeah, I'm like well, because like dudes would be like
yeah, who cares?
You know?

Speaker 3 (52:04):
yeah, but I don't know, because I even, like you
know, there was times where Iwas like, do you want to be in
an open relationship?
And he was like no, no, no,like you better not see anyone
else, you know would you be inan open relationship?
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
So then if he said hey, you could go be with other
women and I'll go be with othermen.
Would, you be okay with thattype of open relationship?

Speaker 3 (52:26):
I think, had it started off like that, maybe,
but the fact that it didn'tstart off like that, I would
never open up to that, like inthe future.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
You know what I?

Speaker 3 (52:34):
mean Because when it starts off like that, you know
what to expect and you know thatperson's being honest with you.
You know.
And there's nothing to likelook over your shoulder, for
really.
Sure so it's like more you feel, more secure and you know this
person's not lying to you.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Right.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
Do I prefer to be in an open relationship?
I don't know, I'm not, but am I?

Speaker 1 (52:59):
open to the idea of it.

Speaker 3 (52:59):
Yeah, I would be if it works for both of us right,
of course.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
Okay, so you pull up, okay, so you find out that, or
you have your suspicions youmake your account and he pulls
up.
What is his reaction?
What does he say?
He?

Speaker 3 (53:14):
drove away, he left he just ran away okay, ran away.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Oh so you saw him.
He's in the car still yeah, hewas.
Oh, that'd be so much better,if he like, walks up.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
No, no no, because I was like me me in this parking
lot you know because he wasdoing stuff like that.
I would be at work and he wouldbe meeting people and hooking
up with them in car in thebackseat of their car while I
was like working all day andlike paying his bills, so you
know so he, so he runs away.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
And then what happens ?
I just um you know, I Ihonestly did you hit him up from
the account that you had madeand be like why did you?

Speaker 3 (53:52):
leave.
That's a really good idea, butno, I ended up blocking him on
everything and it actuallyturned into like quite a bit of
a situation because he could notlet go of the relationship,
which was very confusing to mebecause I'm like you don't even
want to be in the relationship,you don't like.
He was very attached to me or Ithink maybe the idea of me, um,

(54:13):
he would not let go.
I changed my number like fivetimes.
He would always somehow get mynew number.
He finally, obviously, he metthis new person that he's with
and he he like, thank god, movedon.
But for like two years after webroke up, he would not let me go
and I ended up seeing someonenew and he would have to deal
with it because he would messagehim, he would start met.

(54:34):
He was.
He'd be like I'm gonna like,fuck up who anybody that you're
with, and I'm like, dude, justbe you like, it's okay, it's
what.
What year was this?
It's like 2023, I'm like.
Or 2022, you know, be you like.
You're holding on to like allthis anger and resentment for me
because you can't be who youtruly want to be and it's unfair

(54:55):
to me because I'm trying tomove on with my life and forget
that this ever happened and I'mjust reminded of it constantly
by him, like texting me, callingme.
I mean there's times where hewould call from no caller id
like 200 times, I would have toturn my phone off and I changed
my number so many times it wasjust like he, I also had to like
rent a different apartment thanmy apartment because he would

(55:20):
be outside waiting for me.
I remember like posting on mystory like moving day, like
pretending to move out of myapartment because he would be
like waiting for me when I gothome at my apartment.
So yeah, then it kind of turnedinto like stalking and
harassment, because I did justlike after that and I I like
knew for sure, I blocked him oneverything.
I never said another word, Ididn't cuss him out, I didn't

(55:42):
like cold turkey just liketurkey blocked him on everything
.
I did reach out to his mom andhis best friend to let them know
that, like I didn't think hewas in a good mental space and
that I think he needs help,because I genuinely like this is
someone I grew up with.
I was actually concerned abouthim, you know, because of the
behaviors that he was showing me, but that was it.
After I reached out to his momand his best friend, I never

(56:04):
said another word and you knowthe harassment would continue
and I would just text backSometimes like I would have
enough and I would text back andbe like you need to get your
shit together.
I'm going to call the cops orwhatever.
But yeah, it's been years andnothing.
I haven't heard anything.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
I think I know why you don't trust men.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
Well, I felt that way before.
I for sure felt that way before.
I mean I do, I trust you, Itrust you.
I'm sitting in a room with youguys, it's fine.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
But I don't know why you trust him.

Speaker 4 (56:38):
You just met him, because he knows you and I know
you and I know you would neverput me in that situation.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
Yeah, he has a nice smile.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
But yeah like, but if I didn't, to defend myself?

Speaker 1 (57:02):
like that's just the world we live in.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
No one's too scared to mow your skinny little arms.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
Um, that's crazy, um, okay there's a lot yeah
happened there um.
So do you think that um weedshould be legal federally?

Speaker 3 (57:21):
for marijuana.
Yeah, oh, okay what did I?
Say I don't know.
We were on a totally differenttopic so yeah, do you mean okay?
um, yeah, I do, I do.
However, well, because cannabisis used medicinally, I think
that it can help peoplemedicinally and like I've
actually grown the plant andseen like the compounds that

(57:45):
make it up, like you havereceptors in your brain for it
to help you heal or use versusthese chemicals and these other
medicine that we're putting inour body.
That is unnatural.
If alcohol is federally legal,I really don't know how cannabis
isn't.
You know, I've never seen, I'venever seen people like drive

(58:11):
high and kill someone.
I've never seen people end uplike.
I know that people can get toohigh, for sure, but I've never
seen people die.
But my granddad actually diedof liver failure from being an
alcoholic.
So I know what alcohol can do toyou and I feel like, if people
are able to drink, why can't wefederally legalize this plant?

(58:34):
That it should be controlled,for sure.
But I think it can help a lotof people.
It helps cancer patients, ithelps people there's so many
studies on it helping joint painand arthritis and just all
kinds of things that we don'treally have a cure for.
So I think it should befederally legal.

(58:54):
I do think it, you know, shouldbe controlled.
I don.
I think it should be federallylegal.
I do think it, you know, shouldbe controlled.
I don't think you should drivehigh.
I don't think, you know.
I think it's better thanalcohol.
It's a better option for a lotof people, but I think that
because of its benefits toactually medicinally help people
, that's like my stance on it,why I think it should be

(59:19):
presumably you don't think thatother drugs should be legalized
no, I mean well which onesparticularly oh man, whatever
you say, you think you should orshouldn't, yeah I mean no, I, I
don't think like we shouldlegalize crack, right?
what about?
Coke no molly no uh ecstasymushrooms have medicinal

(59:43):
benefits.
Yeah, did you know that this isnot like magic mushrooms, but
lion's mane is being studied fordementia and alzheimer's and it
effectively prevents and helpsprevents those diseases and
helps reconnect neurons in yourbrain to reverse those diseases.
Yeah, so I think mushrooms aremedicinal.

(01:00:06):
Again, it's like things thatshould be controlled.
We don't want people out herelike doing shrooms or smoking
weed for the first time, likefreaking out and like going to
the ER.
I think it's things that shouldbe talked about and like
controlled, but yeah, as far aslike Molly cocaine, all things

(01:00:27):
that are like damaging to you,probably not.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
What is the wildest thing you've ever done Aside
from the?
I feel like that is the wildestthing you've ever done aside
from the.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
I feel like that is the wildest thing you've ever
done, because that's prettycrazy, you know, I think because
your life is fairly insane,just like moving to la.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Just it's crazy, like everything you've gotten into
is and and the interesting partof it is you've gotten out on
the better end yeah for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
Well, I mean for me.
I had like a pretty roughupbringing.
My family was like very poor,and that is something that
creates boredom yeah so me andmy siblings would do a lot of
crazy things when we wereyounger, you know.
And then it moves into lifewhere you're like becoming your

(01:01:23):
own person because I moved out.
I moved out, like, at a veryyoung age.
I moved out of my home when Iwas 16 and started raising
myself, paying my own phone bill, paying for all my own food,
everything you know.
I was like fully dependent andon my own.
So I genuinely feel like I'm 85years old, like I did
everything at such a young agethat now I'm like so boring I

(01:01:46):
you know I still like to go outwith my friends and have fun,
but it's not something that Ineed, you know.
So, as far as like the craziestthing I've ever done, it's like
how deep do we want to go intomy as deep as my backstory yeah,
go for it I can't even thinkoff the top of my head.
Um, there's a lot.

(01:02:09):
There's a lot of crazy stuffthat I've done.
I feel like I've lived ninelives.
Um, maybe give me like asubject oh, it's.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
I mean you could.
You talked about therelationship part of it, and, um
, it could be your friendships,the modeling part.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
I don't, I, I don't know if there was anything,
because I feel like there was umduring the time when you were
modeling that was crazy yeah Imean just kind of like what we
talked about, how you know, likeI definitely, um, I definitely
had like quite a few, Idefinitely had like quite a few

(01:02:56):
disorders, especially likeeating disorders and stuff like
that and I would get like reallyunwell from like shooting all
day in the hot sun and noteating anything and stuff like
that.
Like it affects your mentality.
There's nothing I did.
That's like you know super likeworth talking about.
It's just like that's like hard, but friendships know super
like worth talking about.
It's just like that's like hard, but friendships.

(01:03:16):
Friendships is an easy one forme because I am like very close
to all my friends, like if I'mjust not your friend anymore,
I'm just not your friend.
There's just no drama, I'm justlike, like I said it like when I
cut off my relationship.
I'm like a very cold turkeyperson like once you've like

(01:03:37):
once I've had it up to here withyour shit, like you will not
hear from me again yeah it'snever like a knockdown, drag out
argument, it's just like cool.
Wish you the best bye.
You know we actually we have.
We know people that you know areare um common denominators in
our life that I used to befriends with and it was never
like a knockdown, drag out thing.
It was like hey, move out of myapartment and don't ever talk

(01:03:59):
to me again.
That was it.
Yeah, I still have no idea whathappened, but yeah, I mean, I
don't really want to speak onthat.
It was just kind of like a lotof like narcissism and like
inconsideration.
Uh, my dog was locked in thebathroom at one point and that
was like my final straw um, yeah, I know you love your dog, or

(01:04:22):
loved you know?

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
no, she's alive, is she yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
she's seven um is she seven?

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
yeah, that's crazy.
I feel like it's been so muchlonger she's only seven.

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
I wish I wish she was like two again, but um, yeah,
I'm not really a type of personthat likes to go back and forth.
You know what?
I mean like it's.
I feel like if you just knowsomeone's not meant to be in
your life, it's like, why am Igonna argue about?

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
that, yeah, I love going back and forth.

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
Wait what's your sign feisies I don't know too many
feisies we're the best, yeah,okay, what are you virgo?

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
okay, cool yeah okay, I know some virgo of course you
do, uh, the one you uh and thatyour friendship with is also a
virgo.
I think, actually, ourbirthdays are a day apart.
No, no interesting.
Um, actually one thing that Ithat I thought of is you never

(01:05:22):
got into I mean, I know you gethit on.
Obviously you used to get hiton a lot too um, and how come
you never, like, got into thewhole like gold digger sort of
lifestyle, because I feel likeyou could have?
defined gold digger life, youknow getting getting, uh,
getting hit on by rich men whothen you know would be willing

(01:05:43):
to pay and like, take care ofyou and all that stuff, and I
feel like you never really um, Ithink that there's definitely
been times when I've dated oldermen with money, but it was kind
of more of like a relationshipthan

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
like an agreement, right?
Um, I've also had to providefor myself since a young age, so
I think I'm just evenuncomfortable with like
depending on someone else,especially like someone that you
know what I mean.
There's like no boundaries withto provide for me.
And I also like love working.

(01:06:20):
I genuinely love my job.
I've always had like ambitionand ideas and things that I
wanted to do, so it's I'm justnot a person that's like, oh, I
don't want to work and I justwant to like which is fine for
the women that do like love thatfor you, go queen.
But I just like, personally, Ilove working and I love having

(01:06:40):
this like sense of being andsomething to do and a purpose.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
You know what I mean yeah, do you, uh, do you?
What's the oldest person you'vedated?

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
age difference so I was like 19 or 20 dating someone
in their like late 30s.
That's probably the oldest, forsure um.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
Why did that end?

Speaker 3 (01:07:11):
I was immature he was actually great, like he would
fly my.
I was living in miami at thetime.
He would fly my friends out.
He would take me and at thetime he I didn't realize like
how nice it was, but he wouldtake me shopping at designer
places and I'd be like I like,honestly, could care less.
I would go to forever 21 likewhy is this guy taking me?
here, like I didn't really careum, and he would buy my friend's

(01:07:33):
stuff too.
He would give them a budget.
He would give me a budget andmy friends a budget and we'd
like go on shopping days.
He had us all like living inour own house.
We had like a personal trainer,like all kinds of stuff.
It was like the life, but atthe time, like, like you said, I
didn't have like that mentalityso I was just like wow I'm
having fun and like my friendsare here.
But then I ended up moving backto la for my he was like hey,

(01:07:55):
I'm, and he, he, he, like helpedme get my apartment.
And he was like, hey, I'm goingto be in LA on these days and
these days, like, do you think Ican stay at the apartment?
And I was like no, crazy.
I was like my friends are here,I'm going to have friends in
town and like, and like I waskind of shocked when he like

(01:08:16):
ended it because I had, I had acredit card.
I had a credit card in his nameand it was like for emergencies
and so I went to go use thecredit card and got declined and
it was reported as stolen.
And that was like kind of how Ifound out that he like broke up
with me.
He never said like he was justlike cool, yeah, like no worries
, I'll just get a hotel.

(01:08:36):
He never said like we're done,we're over nothing.
He was just like he was kind oflike me.
He was very nonchalant, likecool, yeah, whatever.
And then the credit card's, theclient's reported as stolen and
I'm like, hey, like my creditcard's not where he's like oh
yeah, can you return that?
And I'm like huh, but yeah,that was like kind of um, that
was like one of my experiences,like that so he asked your

(01:08:58):
permission to stay in hisapartment.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
What was mine?
This isn't my name and I waspaying the rent.
But oh, you were paying there,I was so young, I needed help to
get it like I didn't have likeit wasn't a.
I think you meant he wasliterally no, no, paying for it,
and then you said no, he didpay for it, like like initially,
yeah, the deposit yeah, and thecrazy part is he.

Speaker 3 (01:09:22):
So actually, you're right, the first six months,
because I was living with two ofmy best friends, hayley and
benji, and the first six monthshe was like I'll take care of
the first six months of rent.
And so none of us I like myfriends were like, damn, like
this is the life, like you got.
Like you know, my friends wereliving with me for free too.
So, like none of us like myfriends were like damn, like
this is the life, like you know,my friends were living with me
for free too, so none of us werepaying rent for the first six
months.
And you know, obviously then Ifumbled there.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
Yeah, okay.
So, based on what you just said, if we put Liv's 28 brain in
Liv's 19 year old brain, wouldyou have, like, married this guy
?
No, you wouldn't have marriedthis guy, would you just
continue the relationship.

Speaker 3 (01:10:04):
Yeah, I mean, I'm just like someone that's never
like.
I've never looked forward tolike having children or getting
married.
It's just not something that Iwant.
Want not to say that it's nevergonna happen, you know but,
it's not something I'm likeplanning on or really want.
You know, I'm just kind of likeI'm my own person and it's kind

(01:10:26):
of hard to find someone thatlike really accepts that too.
You know, a lot of men andwomen want to have like control
over their partner or, um, youknow like common ground, and I'm
just like very much my ownperson that it's really hard to
find someone that appreciatesthat and like respects it.
So no for sure.

(01:10:49):
No, but I would have continuedthe relationship at this age.
I'm like he was so nice, like Iwas a total bitch.
That was just I fumbled.
Were you also into him, or wasit just like, oh, it's kind of
nice and like it's greatlifestyle, this is cool I was
into him, but I think I wasmaybe into him in like a
friendship type of way you werelike attracted, like that gut

(01:11:11):
level attraction yeah, no, Iwasn't, like you know,
fangirling over him or whatever,and you think that was because
he was like older and not asattractive, or just he was like
too nice he wasn't too nice, hewas like, he was very like
nonchalant too, you know, butit's like what do they say?
Like it's not, it ain'ttricking.

(01:11:34):
If you got it, he just likedidn't give a fuck like he
wasn't like, oh, I'm doing allthis for this girl because I
love her so much.
He was just like, that's justlike in his culture you know so
kind of andy style andy, that isvery andy style.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
Who's?

Speaker 3 (01:11:50):
andy, just kidding um no, yeah, he was cool, but uh,
wait, what was your question?

Speaker 1 (01:11:56):
that, if, if, if there were, oh, if you love okay
.

Speaker 3 (01:11:59):
So yeah, like I was definitely attracted to him, um,
and I don't think like he wastoo nice or anything like that.
I think it was just at the timeI was like finally living it up
with my friends after we allkind of like struggled with
modeling for however long, and,like you know, I think I was
just so focused on my friends atthe time that I didn't realize

(01:12:20):
what was happening.
And it's funny because heactually said to me he was like
you, like don't know what youhave.
If you were just a little bitolder, you would know what you
have.
Now that I'm older, I'm likedamn, he was right, he made me
eat those words for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I like think back and Iremember you like you just you
were just kind of like just kindof not not fucking around in a
like sexual way, but you werejust like kind of like living
life no yeah no fucks given nofucks given I would be.

Speaker 3 (01:12:49):
I'm like I would like wake up in argentina and I'm
like living there you know, andthen I was like living in New
York.
I tried to live in New Yorktwice actually, which just shows
the kind of person I am.
I was like, oh, I didn't likeit the first time, so let me go
try it a second time.
But yeah, it was just a time inmy life that was just very

(01:13:09):
chaotic and I think also likehaving the upbringing that I did
and like growing up kind ofhaving nothing, and I started to
like inquire these things andthese opportunities.
I just like you just want to goin yeah, so I was kind of, I was
very much all over the placehave you ever been in love?
I want to say yes, but it'slike I don't even like.

(01:13:33):
Like, how do you define love?
I don't really know, you know,because every time I think I've
been in love, I like meetsomeone else, and then I think
that's love, and I'm like I'munsure of what love is, but I
want to say yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
Okay, Finally someone who agrees with me.

Speaker 3 (01:13:52):
Is that your stance, yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
Every time I'm like like my first girlfriend, I'm
like I'm in love, and then likethe next girl is like wait, this
is the same feeling.
And then the next girl is likewait is this love or is?
This just like, like some kindof like trauma bond, like
chemical reaction yeah, I readabout that a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:14:11):
I remember I had one really bad heartbreak in my life
and that felt like love butobviously now I know that wasn't
.
But it was like my first andonly heartbreak and I cheated on
him and I think that's why itwas so bad, because he was such
a nice, good guy and I felt sobad.
I was 18.
And I just felt so bad.

(01:14:32):
But he was like the first guy Idated when I moved to LA and
like I don't know he like Ilived with him out here.
It was the only person I've alsoI've never lived with a male
besides that.
So well, male partner, um.
And so, yeah, I was like reallyhard.
I was like gut-wrenchingheartbroken.
My friend actually was recentlygoing through a heartbreak.

(01:14:53):
She's like have you ever feltlike this before?
And I was like, yeah, when Iwas 18, but I've never felt like
that since.
Like, I just kind of move on.
But I think that you know,there is like someone that I
think that being in love issomeone that you date, that
changes your perception oneither you know what love is or

(01:15:18):
how you want to be treated, andsomeone that makes you feel well
for women, for me personally,soft and comfortable, and I've
only ever, you know, felt thatwith one person.
So to me I'm like, oh, this islove, or I'm in love.
But then you know you datesomeone else and you're like,
well, now I'm in love with thisperson, and then you date

(01:15:38):
someone else and it's like, whoknows?

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
you know, I don't this is how I know.
Love is not real.
Anytime you ask somebody likewho, like, got married right,
like oh, how did you know?
Like this was the right person,how'd you know you're in love?
Blah, blah, blah they alwaysgive this like fake ass chat gbt
answer that's like yeah, youknow.
The first time I looked intoher eyes I just knew, or the

(01:16:05):
when, you know, you know, andI'm just like it sounds like
you're lying, like it soundslike you know you're supposed to
say this.
Because it's like what peoplesay haha, like this is the
program we are supposed to run,I'm an npc, you know.
And then, and then it's likewhat people say haha, like this
is the program we are supposedto run, I'm an NPC, you know.
And then it's like, oh well,that's love, I guess.
But I think it's just likingsomebody.
And then there's like aspectrum and if you just like

(01:16:25):
someone more, I guess you coulddefine love as like once it
crosses your level.

Speaker 1 (01:16:28):
Have you ever been hungry?

Speaker 3 (01:16:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:31):
Have you ever been hungry?

Speaker 3 (01:16:32):
All the time, of course.

Speaker 1 (01:16:34):
How do you describe hunger?

Speaker 2 (01:16:38):
When you're really hungry.
Like what do you mean?

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
no, describe hunger how would you describe hungry to
somebody who's never beenhungry like when?
You feel super hungry when yourstomach's you're just using the
word to describe the word youreally want food you can't
describe how the hunger feelslike that's how it feels when
you really want food how do you,how do you define my?

Speaker 3 (01:16:56):
stomach's growling I'm a little shaky um.
Can't stop thinking about whatI want to eat, feeling like I
need to get food okay, do youagree with that definition?

Speaker 1 (01:17:08):
sure, okay, cool, so you both agree on the definition
.
So when you say that anybodywho's been in love you talk to
and describes it the same way,you think that they're supposed
to say the same thing.
But what if they're saying thesame thing?
Because it is the explanationof the same thing because you
can tell by how they say itwhich is what.

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
they say it in a robot voice.
They say it in like a fake,like like it's like their eyes
go dead, their eyes go blank,like it's like their eyes go
dead, their eyes go blank, andit's like this is the program
I'm supposed to run now.
And then they just like say thewords.

Speaker 1 (01:17:42):
Or is it possible that, because you're a robot,
you're hearing it in a robotvoice as a result of the fact
that you have robot ears?

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
Like.
I think love exists in thisLike.
Okay, if you said what ishungry and then you said what is
starving, oh, starving is likewhen you're more hungry.
Okay, I guess starving exists,like on the same.
But people act like love islike a completely separate thing
from like when I think it'sjust like like a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:18:07):
It is.
It is a separate thing fromlike, because you could love
someone and dislike them at thesame time.
There are things that I coulddislike about a person, but I
love that person at the sametime.

Speaker 2 (01:18:19):
There are things that I could dislike about a person,
but I love that person at thesame time.
But if they did enough thingsthat you didn't like, you would
stop loving them.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
That's assuming that your love is conditional if the
love is conditional.
That is not true, and we'vetalked about this before and I
don't know why you can'tunderstand it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
Well, I know why you can't understand it because
you've never experienced it thebrain of a small child.
What do you mean?
No, the problem is, you watchtoo many disney movies you don't
?

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
no, it has nothing to do with watching disney movies,
because I've experienced it.
Therefore I understand it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
I understand that it's hard to understand it if
you've never experienced you'veexperienced unconditional love
absolutely so there is people inthis world that you would love
if they murdered your mom, youwould still love them.
If they fucking, like, like,destroyed everything else you
love in life, you would still belike, yeah, oh, my god, I'm in
love with you I don't think.

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
I don't think you would be capable of not loving
them, but you could dislike themas a result of what they did no
way, I guess we'll never findout, because they're never gonna
kill my mom love, but I thinkthere's a different perception
of it these days.

Speaker 3 (01:19:21):
You know they're like a lot of my friends are in
relationships that they don'treally love the guy but he takes
care of them or whatever.
But then I do have friends thatare like.
This guy completely changed myperception of love and I felt
that too I've had someone thatyou know.
After my whole gay exexperience, I had someone come

(01:19:43):
into my life that completelyhealed me and, like, changed me
as a person and it's not to saylike.
You know, I think yourperception does always change,
it just does know and I thinkthat love exists, but I think
that it's very rare.
It's very rare, it's very hardto find and I think it's

(01:20:05):
something that is individualized.
You know, I don't think like wewould all have the same concept
of love.
You know, I don't think like wewould all have the same concept
of love, like maybe he, he willlike two, three, four, five
years from now, be like oh, thisis that one person that like
can change my perception Icompare being in love and

(01:20:28):
finding somebody who you, whoyou're truly in love with, to
winning the lottery, and I thinkthat the rarity of it is the
same.

Speaker 1 (01:20:37):
And not only the rarity of it is the same, but
but also the fact that noteverybody tries to buy the
lottery ticket to begin with,and I think that itself is a big
factor of why a lot of peopledon't experience love and don't
actually fall in love, becausewhen you find something that's
safe, majority of people tend tosettle, which is, which is

(01:21:00):
absolutely fine, becauserelationship is not just about
love.
You know, that's not the onlyfactor that makes a relationship
last.
You know, relationship is a lotof work, and so in order to be
in a successful relationshipdoesn't mean that you have to be
in love with the person inorder to make the relationship
work.

Speaker 3 (01:21:17):
It just means that you have to really make sure
that you and your partner arewilling to do the work in order
to make the relationship work Itotally agree and I think that a
lot of people aren't willing toput the work into themselves
that it takes to find someonelike that, because I think that
you can only find someone orsomething like that when you've

(01:21:40):
actively worked on yourself andwhen you continue to and when
you continue to grow, becausewhen you become stagnant as a
person, you're going to becomestagnant in your relationship
and it's going to be very hardto progress from that point.
That's why a lot of people likegain weight in relationships or,
you know, stay at the sameshitty job for 10 years, while

(01:22:00):
in a relationship it's likepeople want stability but they
don't realize that stabilityholds you back in life.
Comfort and stability are yourbiggest enemies and when you can
put that work into yourself, Ithink the universe kind of gives
back and gives you someone thatmakes you realize that working

(01:22:24):
on yourself is worth it you saidsomething about the fact that
you, when you were 18, youcheated on someone, on your ex
at the time.

Speaker 1 (01:22:35):
Do you think that once a cheater, always a cheater
?

Speaker 3 (01:22:38):
no, I never did that shit again I thought I it was so
bad.
It was so bad, it was so bad, Ifelt so bad and I also, like,
at the time when he caught me, Ilied about it and I it was just
something that I never reallygot over, how I made that person
feel and he cut me off coldturkey.

(01:22:58):
He was like he forgave me atfirst and then we got into like
another disagreement and he justlike blocked me on everything
and at the time I was, I wasliving with him but I was
modeling in new york and he soldall my stuff to buffalo
exchange with another girl andposted it on instagram like took
a picture on instagram withanother girl that I didn't like

(01:23:18):
in the picture and was likebuffalo exchange, is really
gonna love my ex's shit and Iand and so I don't know, I I
think he forgave me and then helike realized how much it was
gonna take for him to actuallytrust me again.
So he just kind of like I don'tblame him or did he fake
forgive you?
wait for you to leave, then Iwas already gone, I was already
in new york and he like loggedinto my facebook and read my

(01:23:40):
messages with my like highschool ex and what had happened
was I had a relationship fromlike fifth grade to like the
time I moved away.
I dated, like you know, one oneguy there in my where I was
from and I kind of left stilldating him.

(01:24:02):
And then when I got to la and Isaw how great things were here,
I was like, yeah, this is likenot working for me.
Um, you know, because he waslike a hometown guy, he's like
never gonna leave or do anythingwith his life, you know.
So, anyway, I'm then like Ibroke up with him as soon as I
met this other guy that Icheated on.

(01:24:24):
I broke up with him when I metthat guy because I did have that
like childlike love feelingwith this guy, you know, and he
was like the first guy I met inLA and he was like whatever.
So I ended up visiting backhome like a year into the
relationship and my ex from highschool was around because he's

(01:24:44):
like very close to my family,etc.
And the guy I was dating was atlike a guest fashion show.
He's walking for guests and Iremember seeing he like told me
he was like going home and hedidn't go home and he like lied
about like one of the girls Idon't know, it was something.
It was like pretty, like smalland like me.

(01:25:05):
Now that I wouldn't even like.
You know, I just brush it, butat the time when you're like so
in love and you're young, I'mjust like, oh my god, like he's
gonna meet another model andhe's gonna like her better and
whatever.
So I ended up hooking up with my, my high school ex to like get
revenge or whatever, and I Ihonestly felt really bad about

(01:25:26):
it, like I really did um to thepoint where I almost told him
and then, when I was going totell him, I was saying like, oh,
we need to have a talk orwhatever.
And I guess he thought I wasgoing to break up with him.
So he flew to my hometown andsurprised me because he knew I
had been feeling weird aboutwhat happened at the fashion
show.
Flew to my hometown andsurprised me and we like go on
this like elaborate trip withhis mom and this whole, this

(01:25:48):
whole time I'm thinking like, ohmy god, fuck, I like cheated on
him, I feel so fucking bad,like because I'm a person that
like I genuinely like feel badlike, if I do something wrong,
to someone.
Yeah, I feel remorseful, like Ican't stop thinking about it.
So, yeah, we're like on thistrip and I I feel awful, and
then we I end up going to newyork.
He goes back to la.

(01:26:09):
I'm in new york and it's likesuper busy in new york.
I'm like my modeling career islike completely taking off, and
I think he felt like a littlelike jealous of that too,
because he was a model too andhis career like wasn't going as
good as mine or whatever.
So we would like argue aboutthat a little bit, about like me
having to travel so much, and Ithink that's why he felt the

(01:26:31):
need to break into my facebook.
I don't even know how he knewmy password.
I I genuinely don't know how hegot into this day, but he got
into my facebook and he startedmessaging the guy pretending to
be me my high school ex and I'mlike so that's probably where I
learned it from, actually.
But he's like messaging him.
And he's like because I hadsent a message that was like hey
, stop messaging me, I'm with myboyfriend.

(01:26:52):
And he's like hey, what wereyou gonna tell me?
Like when I was with myboyfriend.
And then he starts like pouringout his heart, like, oh, when
you came back here and we hookedup and blah, blah, blah, and
then like that, you know, he, heknew, and he confronted me with
it and I lied and lied, andlied and lied and I was like
he's just saying that.
And to make it worse, thehometown guy was like giving him
all the details.

(01:27:12):
He called him.
He called him and he was like,yeah, we were, we were at her
mom's house and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Like giving him all the details, the time frames, the
screenshots of text messages.
He was like totally likeratting me out because he wanted
me back.
And I'm like, fuck, I have the.
I have two guys that like bothreally want to be with me and
they're, I'm like, probablygoing to end up with neither one

(01:27:33):
of them right and so, yeah,he's like we fight over it, we
argue, he ends up coming to newyork, like during all this, and
he's like I forgive you andwe're like in love again and
blah, blah, blah, blah, and thenhe leaves New York and then I
think he just realized like howhard it actually was going to be
for him to trust me againbecause I'm a model, I'm
traveling everywhere and, likehe knows, I've already had this

(01:27:55):
behavior before, so why wouldn'tI have it again?
And I don't blame him.
And so, yeah, he just we gotinto like one little argument
and he completely ghosted me andI was so depressed I like I was
like taking sleeping pills justto go to sleep at night because
I felt so bad and so depressed,and then also all my stuff got
given away.
So, yeah, I just ended up likestopping modeling for like I

(01:28:19):
think like three or four monthsand like went home.
I had like a huge mental healthepisode where I was just like
unwell and super depressed andthat wasn't really like fully
because of him.
It was also like stuff from mychildhood that I was trying to
process and get over because Ihad all I had this new life, you
know so.
But it was a big stepping stonefor me, like that relationship

(01:28:39):
and learning like why deceivingsomeone is wrong and how it
affects the other person.
And I've since then I've I'vedefinitely been caught up.
I I have actually another storythat's really crazy, remind me
but, um, I've been caught up andI just flat out told the truth
and they're just like peoplelike are shocked.

Speaker 1 (01:28:58):
They're just like, oh , just like that, like that's
like you know, and I'm like,yeah, like I fucked up, you know
, or yeah, like I did that sothen that kind of gives you the
feeling that once a cheater isnot a cheater, because you don't

(01:29:18):
think you would ever make thatmistake, because that mistake
only pertained to the you atthat age yeah, I mean, obviously
it depends on the person youknow, like some people are once
a cheater, always going to be acheater, because they're not
willing to put the work intothemselves to not

Speaker 3 (01:29:37):
you know, not do that again.
But I knew like I don't everwant to make someone feel like
that again.
You know, I, especially someonewho's done nothing to me.
Now, if it's like the guy'scheating on you and you're
cheating back or whatever, likeI think there's like a fine line
, you know.
But I think that if you're justlike deceiving someone who's
like completely in love with youwhich is like what I was doing,

(01:29:59):
like it's like he did one smallthing, that what he was like
micro cheating, and then Icheated you know, as revenge and
it's like to this day Iprobably still even if someone's
like micro cheating, I wouldn'tdo that back because it does
nothing for me.
You know like, if I'm gonna dothat, why don't I just pick up

(01:30:19):
and move on?

Speaker 1 (01:30:20):
right.
So to that, what is?
What would?
What do you consider cheating?

Speaker 3 (01:30:29):
um, I guess it depends on the boundaries of the
relationship, but you know,obviously being intimate with
someone else, right the opposite.

Speaker 1 (01:30:36):
So is that?
Where the line is is likebecause you said micro cheating,
so what?
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:30:40):
so micro cheating would be like texting someone
private, like having emotionalconversations you know.

Speaker 1 (01:30:47):
So is flirting micro cheating?

Speaker 3 (01:30:49):
Yeah, I would say it is because I know, when men
flirt with me what they want,you know.
So it's like if you're myboyfriend and you're flirting
with someone else, other men aredoing that to me.
It's a cycle, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:31:05):
Okay, so your line essentially is no interest, like
if you have interest insomebody, you're allowed to
think about it, but you can'tact on it.
Yeah, okay have self-control.
It's pretty simple you said youhad a crazy story that you
remembered oh, okay, this one'spretty bad.

Speaker 3 (01:31:25):
So, after the whole gay x thing, um, I had, I was, I
was single, first and foremost,but I was talking to a bunch of
different people and there was,you had a roster.
Yeah, I had a roster sure, yeah, I had a roster.
Sure, I wasn't Also, by the way, I wasn't hooking up with any

(01:31:48):
of these people, but I was likeactively dating all of them.
And when I say dating, I meanlike multiple, multiple dates.
So I'm on a first date withthis guy and he lives in New
York and he's like, oh, I'mcoming to LA and I was like NFTs
were a thing.
And he's like, oh, I'm comingto la and I had, it was when
like nfts were a thing.
And he's like, oh, I'm going tothis nft event, like will you

(01:32:08):
be my date?
And I'm like sure, that soundslike fun.
We go to the event.
One of the guys I'm talking tothat lives here in la pulls up
and I see him and I'm like, oh,my god, I'm on a date with this
other guy.
Like fuck I take off to thebathroom, the guy I'm on a date
with is like, are you okay, like, and I won't come out of the
bathroom.
I'm like, yeah, like by chance,like who's in line for the
bathroom, or like who's aroundthe bathroom door, and he's like

(01:32:29):
, what?
Like, why are you being soweird?
And then, finally, I come outof the bathroom.
I'm like, honestly, uh, weshould get out of here and he's
like okay, so we left and we goto dinner at bossa nova because
it's late at night.
After this event, we go todinner at bossa nova and the bad
part is okay, hold on.

(01:32:49):
I'm trying to think of how totell this story in the best way
okay, so we go to dinner atbossa nova.
We're standing outside, he hashis arm around me, it's cold,
like we're like cuddled up, youknow, and I had introduced him
to the guy that I want to datewith.
I had introduced him previouslyto another guy I was talking to
, because the other guy I wastalking to was in New York and
he was looking to do businesswith someone and that guy

(01:33:11):
happened to be a perfect fit, soI introduced him to do business
together, so they know eachother.
I'm cuddled up with this guy onthe first date, next to the
heater, and the other guy callsme and I answer it because I'm
like I't know, like I don'treally have anything to hide and
also it could have like been anemergency.
He called me a few times, so Ipick up.

(01:33:31):
I'm like hey, what's up?
He's like turn around.
Oh, my God, mind you, we alreadysaw the other guy I'm talking
to at the party.
He didn't say anything to us,but we already saw him and like
to come clean.
He was like why did you want toget out of there?
Blah, blah.
I'm like, I'm talking, I wastalking to one of those guys
that was at the party and he waslike the one with the face tats

(01:33:52):
.
I was like, yeah, unfortunately, and so he already knows that.
He already knows that and that'slike a huge red flag.
He should have never taken meto dinner.
To be honest, we're therecuddled up at dinner and this
guy's like turn around.
And I'm like, haha, like whatdo you mean?
And he's like turn around.
I turn around, I push, I pushhis arm off me.
I turn around, I see the otherguy and I'm like what are you

(01:34:15):
doing here?
Like I hang up the phone, I'mlike, oh, you remember so and so
.
And he's like he's like besidehimself.
By the way, this guy that pulledup and he was in the car and he
just happened to be passing by.
Dude, this is like my karma'sthe fucking worst.
He just happened to be drivingby and his friend had to pee, so
they pulled over.
They weren't even going tobossa nova.
They pulled over at bossa novafor his friend to use the

(01:34:36):
bathroom and I was outside withanother guy.
I had just cut things off withthis guy two days before and I
was like we can still be friendsand like date, but I'm just
don't want a relationship withyou.
So he was already like feelingthat.
And then he sees me with thisother guy that he knows that I
introduced him to cuddled uplike outside.
And then he he like completelybreaks down.

(01:35:00):
He's like asking the guy, he'slike, are you hooking up with
her?
Or like he keeps asking me.
And he's like yelling it outthe car and like the security at
boss nova's like trying to makehim leave.
And he's like answer myquestion like, and then he's
like are you guys on a date?
And the other guy was likeshocked.
He was like no, and he was likelooks like you're on a date.
He's like I guess.
And then he's like we're bothjust like so caught off guard.

(01:35:20):
Now I tried to play it off.
I was like, oh yeah, you guysremember each other, right, but
it's like too late.
He already saw us like cuddledup next to the heater.
So, yeah, he's like crying inthe passenger seat of his
friend's car while his otherfriend is using the bathroom
inside and security is trying tomake him leave.
And he's just like I had toblock him.
He starts like messaging usboth and like just talking shit

(01:35:49):
and I was like dude, I honestlybroke things off with you
already.
I told you I wasn't interestedin a relationship with you, the
guy I was on the first date withit was like we just sat down.
It's the most awkward meal ever.
Like I'm like eating bean soupbecause I couldn't even order a
full meal, because I was so like.
I was just like, oh my gosh,this is so embarrassing.
And he like ignored all thosered flags, so I don't know, and
he didn't talk.

Speaker 2 (01:36:07):
You guys didn't talk about it, didn't like you,
didn't sit down like he was,like what the fuck was that he
was?
So explain yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:36:13):
He was so gentle about it.
He was just like, well, likeare you gonna say anything?
And I'm like, yeah, so, likeyou know, he's like why'd you
introduce me to him?
And I'm like, well, I thoughtwe were all friends, like I
don't know, like I guess Ididn't realize how much either
one of them liked me, and so Iwas just like I didn't really
think it mattered.
But now, obviously, if someonedid that to me I'd be fucking

(01:36:34):
pissed, you know so this isanother one of those things
where it's like I don't want tomake someone feel like that
again it's like a learninglesson of like how you want to
treat other people but, yeah, atthe dinner we just kind of both
sat there.
He was pretty silent too.
He was like sweating.
He was literally like dude.
He was probably like this girl.
Yeah, I remember, even when thebill came I tried to pay the
bill because I felt so bad andit was our first date and he

(01:36:57):
didn't let me pay the bill but Iwas like no, like honestly, I'm
so sorry, like I know youprobably don't want to date me
after this, I'm just going topay the bill.
And he's like no, you're fine,and it's just like.
That was pretty bad.
I got caught up with threedifferent guys on the same night
on a first date.

Speaker 1 (01:37:14):
That's hilarious.
You said that you don't do alot of one night stands.

Speaker 3 (01:37:20):
I don't really do that at all, yeah.
So you know, I'm going gonnaassume the answer to this
question, but, uh, the sizematter.
Um, I mean, for me, likepersonally, like if I like
someone, I like them, like Ireally don't give a fuck.
But I think, yeah, you know, Ithink I think if that's like

(01:37:45):
your standard, yeah, but for mepersonally, if I like someone, I
like everything about them andI can make anything work.
So yes and no, I don't know, Iknow some.
I have some girlfriends thatare like I would never date a
dude with a small blah blah youknow, and I'm like I don't
really care if I like, reallylike the person, like that's not

(01:38:07):
really gonna stop me that'sgood.

Speaker 1 (01:38:09):
Good for you.
What were you gonna?

Speaker 3 (01:38:11):
assume um what you just said okay yeah, I would
have assumed that, like it's,you know you, just you know you
care more so about the emotionalconnection with the person than
you do yeah, exactly becauseyou're not, like you mentioned
earlier, not a very like, overlysexual person yeah and like,
maybe I am in my own way, butI'm like like, if I have I feel

(01:38:34):
like you're a lot more sexualwith the women in your life oh
my gosh, yeah, probably.
I mean like publicly, publiclyfor sure, but I just think that
relationships are such a deepthing and it's like for me to
like get into a relationship andlike be so deep in a

(01:38:55):
relationship.
I need to, I need to feelsomething for that person you
know, whether it's sexual or notsexual, like I would say, like
yeah, I'm a pretty sexual personwith the right person if that
makes sense, sure, yeah,absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:39:09):
Thank you for coming on the show.
You were great.
This was.
This was very um, honest andand enlightening of course.

Speaker 3 (01:39:19):
Thank you for having me, yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 (01:39:20):
Thanks for watching.
See you later.

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What Does Success Look Like When You Create It Yourself Ft. Liv - Ep.111

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}What Does Success Look Like When You Create It Yourself Ft. Liv - Ep.111