July 10, 2025 • 32 mins
in this last month of season 10, we're talking eldritch horror: a horror sub-genre on the rise (though it's always been here). what are the elements of an eldritch horror? what are its origins? tune in to find out!
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(00:00):
You like horror movies? You're listening to Unbound and
Rebound. Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of the Unbound and Rewound Horror
podcast where we dive deeper into every horror book and movie
(00:23):
for a closer look at their bone chilling anatomy.
I am Avery, your queer fully fearfully host.
Make sure you're following me onInstagram, Twitter and TikTok
and Substack at your horror podcast for the latest horror
content and podcast updates, such as what to expect for every
(00:46):
new episode. Season 10 is organized a little
like summer school. We're talking a different horror
sub genre for the next three months, which technically this
is the last month. And so in this last month, we're
focusing on Eldridge horror, otherwise known as Lovecraftian
horror, otherwise known as cosmic horror and so on and so
(01:07):
forth. And so in preparation for this
month and the conversations we're having, I have been
watching a lot of eldritch horror.
I say a lot. It hasn't really been too much,
but I challenged myself to at least watch one new movie.
And I chose Society from 19901989, either 1989 or 1986.
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I don't, I don't remember eitherway.
So I watched that and I have been wanting to watch it because
it was in an essay book I read recently and it's just been in
the back of my mind. And so I finally got to watch
it. It was absolutely absurd.
I have to say. I like, I was fully prepared for
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its absurdism and yet it's stillout absurd itself.
So goals were definitely met andthings were achieved.
On what level I'm not entirely sure.
I also watch Cabin in the Woods to prepare for this episode.
And outside of that I watched from, which technically is like
(02:19):
Elder Tour. Like, yeah, that's very Elder
Tour. I'm trying to catch up to Season
3 because it was coming out and I didn't have MGM and so now I'm
watching it but I have not been able to fully emotionally
connect to the season yet so once I do there will be more to
discuss there. What else, What else?
(02:45):
I also finally finished the Vampire Lestat after what, 3
months? Very proud of myself, Very happy
to be over with that because I'mready to move on to new books.
Granted. Love Lestat, love Anne Rice,
can't wait for season 3 of Interview with the Vampire but
it's time to read other things. I moved on to Stephen Graham
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Jones's upcoming double saga. Currently reading Killer on the
Road which is just been on the whole like urban legend sort of
folk, not folk tale but like Fable.
I guess I'm just like the killerhitchhiker and it's good so far.
I did try to read. I was a teenage slasher when it
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came out and I couldn't really get into its narration, I think
in part because it was a male protagonist, and I don't really
like to read male protagonists, but that's something I'm working
through. So, so far, I'm liking Killer on
the Road and I'm excited to see where it goes.
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Now, if you have been reading any of the same things I've been
reading, if you've been reading something you think I would
like, or if you've been reading something that you just really,
really want to talk about, please share.
You can drop a comment if you are listening on Spotify or you
can always reach me on Instagram, TikTok, Sub stack,
(04:14):
any of those places. If you've been watching
something really exciting, reading something, streaming
something, whatever it is, please let me know.
And now we can finally get into what this episode is truly
about. Because while it is very
insightful, it there's not. We're working with only a
(04:37):
little. We're working with very small
information. So without further ado, what's
scarier than confronting the existentialism of being a human
amongst the cosmos? You may have that friend whose
favorite excuses we're all living on a floating rock,
alluding to the idea that we areinconsequential.
(04:58):
And yet there is a subgenre out there that exists to prove we
matter until nature and the unnatural decides we don't.
So what is this Elder Tore that I keep Speaking of?
It can be often described as something that is uncanny,
unearthly, and weird in a supernatural way.
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It's kind of like an amalgamation of cosmicism and
the elements of HP Lovecraft's work, which is why Lovecraftian
horror and Elder Tour are often discussed in tandem.
Where cosmicism explores the chaos of the natural and human
world, Elder Tour is more defined by its supernatural
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qualities. Lovecraftian and eldritch whore
don't always exist at once, though.
Lovecraft's work becomes eldritch when the evil defies
the conventions of time, space, and existence.
The way we understand them, at least, they remind us that we
aren't in control no matter how much we try to exert it.
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Some arguments I've seen online suggest that eldritch horror is
just cosmic horror, but cosmic horror is only one part of
eldritch horror. Alien, for example, could be
cosmic horror, but it may not necessarily be eldritch.
Through what I found online, there seem to be 4 main
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components of what can be considered to be eldritch
horror. So you have this sense of
insignificance, which is sort ofwhat I was speaking to before,
where it's like, you know, as humans we think that we are the
apex predator, so to speak, and we cause wars and we have all of
these impacts on the nature around us.
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And yet these films, these narratives, serve to remind us
that we aren't as significant aswe want to believe we are.
And within that, there's also a psychological horror element to
it. Between that and just the way
that these manifestations of some larger power, some larger,
control how they interact with the characters at hand too, you
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also have the cosmic scale of how great something is in
comparison to these human lives.And then forbidden knowledge,
which can you know. You can probably consider, like
the Evil Dead and the Necronomicon to be forbidden
knowledge, things within that sphere.
(07:36):
Looking into as many resources as I could find, I think I've
come to find that these terms are all interchangeable really.
Lovecraftian can mean both cosmic and eldritch.
Eldritch can mean something different than cosmic.
The term eldritch in relation tohorror seems to have gained
popularity in the last decade post release of the tabletop RPG
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game named Eldritch Horror, which is based on HP Lovecraft
stories. So maybe we'll see more of this
to come within the next decade. And I think that there is a
strong likelihood of this because we're already seeing a
rise in eco horror or ecologicalhorror.
(08:21):
It's the same in the way that itcan be considered cosmic or
eldritch depending on its elements.
This is a sub genre on the rise and I think we all probably know
the reason why. You can consider these movies to
be nature's revenge on humanity and it values its themes more
than other technical elements. So what does this mean, given
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that we don't have a lot of information, given that it seems
to be so new that very few people are talking about it?
I think that this is one of those times when subjectivity is
key because there is no definitive right or wrong
perception of this growing sub genre.
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But just like with any other subgenre, it's intended to help you
understand the flexibility of the genre.
Horror has never been just one thing, so understanding it's
many faces is so helpful for discovering what you like and
don't like as a viewer, watcher,and a reader.
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As I have been doing for the past two months, I have gathered
3 pieces of media that I think best exemplify this sub genre
we're exploring for the month. The very last one will be the
piece of media we'll be talking about in the next episode
featuring the director. So before we get to that one,
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our first media, which is one that I, I forget, it's kind of
like a hidden gem for me becauseI forget it exists.
And yet I don't like people willsay like, oh, what's one of the
best movies you've ever seen? What's 1 of the scariest movies
you've ever seen? Like whatever.
And it's just not within that collection in my mind.
(10:16):
But it is truly one of the best horror movies I've ever seen.
And that's crazy to say. I think maybe because I know
some people feel otherwise, but that's OK.
Anyways, enough blubbering. The Ruins 2008 directed by
Carter Smith. So we have Amy, who's played by
Jenna Malone, you know, Hunger Games Diva Stacy played by Laura
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Ramsey, Jeff played by Jonathan Tucker, and Eric played by Sean
Ashmore, who are looking for funduring a sunny holiday in
Mexico. But they get much more than
that. After visiting an archaeological
dig in the jungle, carnivorous vines try to ensnare the friends
in their tendrils, forcing the group to fight for survival.
(11:02):
It's based on the 2006 Scott Smith novel of the same name,
and quite frankly, I'm unsure ifCarter Smith and Scott Smith
have any relation to each other or if that is just pure
coincidence. It is kind of like if Cabin
Fever tried to be woke in like aclimate conscious kind of way.
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And because of this movie, I made a whole new letterbox to
tag titled Movies that I would show Greta Gerwig because not
Greta Gerwig, Greta Thunberg. Movies that I would show Greta
Thunberg. And I think that she would kind
of probably love The Ruins. My overall general thoughts for
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The Ruins. I have to say that I find no
greater sense of anxiety than when watching a sci-fi horror
film. The unknown elements of these
narratives make them exhilarating watches.
So in a sense perhaps Elder Tor is some of the scariest in my
opinion. As someone who famously has
(12:07):
anxiety, that checks out. The themes of this specific film
are American tourism AKA like white tourism as well
colonialism, privilege and racism.
Comments are made specifically in the beginning with
misconceptions that usually we'll hear like in Western
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colonial, like perceptions of quote, UN quote, third world
countries and whatever. But these comments are made
about Mayan history and the racist perspectives of Mexico.
And so, like, some of the thingsthat they were saying were like
talking about how the local natives of this specific place
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that they're visiting might be preparing for a sacrifice when
they're not sure exactly what they're doing.
But they're like, they're kind of acting sporadic.
They're setting stuff up. What are they doing?
Must be preparing for a sacrifice because they are brown
on their indigenous island. Sure.
They also talk about the poor water quality.
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They're like making margaritas. And one of the characters is
like, oh, yeah, those margaritasare made with ice.
You know what The shit water. OK, how about you wait a second
because you didn't have to visithere.
Like, you did not have to take awhole vacation to Mexico if
you're just going to talk horribly about it the entire
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time. And I think that like between
this and other instances in which they're talking to, you
know, like local civilians and they can't communicate with them
properly or they just exhibit like a certain level of
uneducation. I think that the movie in
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general speaks to not knowing the history and culture and
customs of the place that you visit.
Because ultimately, they would not have gotten into this
situation had they A, learned the language of the places that
they were going to be exploring and B, looked up if there were
any particular places that they probably should not visit.
(14:11):
Like, and granted, they didn't have TikTok back then, but I'm
sure that on some forum, on someblog, some historian or some
geologist or whoever was talkingabout it.
Like if you just did enough research, I'm sure you could
have found it. Because me, I'm going to go on
TikTok and look up places I should not visit because I need
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to know because I'm not going toget into a situation like this.
It also the movie itself does depict the locals as
superstitious and militant despite their beliefs persuading
their actions. And so on one hand it's like
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this is written by by white people.
So like, you know, maybe it's one of those like, ally things
that they had the right intention and the right heart,
but but they just didn't get it 100% or like, 'cause it, it kind
of feels contradictory to what the movie seems to be saying,
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but I'm not sure. Then you also have like this
white woman who gets a local child killed because once again,
she doesn't know what the local people are trying to tell her.
You have this woman who this white tourist woman who gets
this child killed because she's just exhibiting this like
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exorbitant amount of of privilege.
And like also like, I feel like there's another word that better
encapsulates the situation at hand here.
She's just like, 'cause she justkeeps taking pictures of like
the local children and there's like this romanticization that
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she seems to have of this community, and yet, like, she
lacks the appreciation for it inthe same way.
I don't know. It's weird, but they even
acknowledge their own privilege at one point when they're
talking about how they're going to be rescued and how they're
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going to get out of there. And one of the characters says
four Americans don't just disappear.
And I think that that sentence in itself, really, I think that
sentence in itself summarizes what this movie aims to achieve,
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or at least in my opinion, probably the book too.
I just have never read it. But I think it is this
recognition that like as an American, there is this overall
privilege because of the nationalism and the patriotism
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that we have sort of been instilled with.
Maybe, perhaps, perhaps those are the right words I'm looking
for. Yeah, I think that, like, I
mean, every time a white American I can, I can probably
remember at least two times in the past where a white American
(17:29):
man has done something in North Korea or Russia or Vietnam where
the he clearly disobeyed a law that is pretty standard and
that's known amongst everyone. And that has that is previously
told to him before he breaks thelaw and he gets imprisoned.
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And then America makes this big deal about it where it's like,
oh, please bring him home. Bring him home.
And it's like, OK, well, maybe he shouldn't have broken the
law. Like maybe he should have just,
I don't know, follow the rules and respected the place in which
he was visiting. But that's just me, that's just
(18:13):
me. The thing with this movie that I
love so much though is when shithits the fan, it is a never
ending bag of tricks and gags and not in the fun way.
The vacation thriller becomes this eco horror survivalist
narrative once you learn the reason why the local natives are
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so superstitious of the formidable ruins.
These vines can mimic sound, move as a unit and they spread
like a cancer. You never fully understand what
the plants or ruins are, but youdo have an idea based on the
deductive reasoning of the characters.
One of them says it has to be old talking about the ruins
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because the birds and insects have learned not to land here.
There is this one part after they've removed the vines from
Stacy that all three of them seea small little vine squirm
across her forehead and it's like underneath her skin and
then fall silent and she starts to become suspicious.
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And it's just in that moment, the timing is so good.
And that's how the entire movie is like.
I just think that the I just think that it's very well
written and executed. The gore is so well done and the
tension just continues to build.So big fan of that movie.
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Very, very great example of eco horror and eldritch horror.
And yeah, I think, hey, I support the vines.
I do the second media that I have previously spoken about, as
(19:59):
in in this episode and like lightly on other occasions, but
I've never dedicated a lot of time to it.
Cabin in the Woods, 2011, directed by Drew Goddard.
Surely you know what this movie is like.
And if you don't like, first of all, you need to figure
something out about that. You need to find that movie and
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watch it immediately. Because it is so good, it
follows 5 college friends, played by Kristen Connolly,
Chris Hemsworth, Anna Hutchison,Fran Kranz and Jesse Williams,
who arrive at a remote forest cabin for a little vacation.
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But little do they expect the horrors that await them. 1 by 1,
the youths fall victim to backwood zombies.
But there's another factor at play.
The two scientists, Richard Jenkins and Bradley Whitford,
are manipulating the ghoulish goings on.
That's crazy. I y'all.
I copied this from Rotten Tomatoes and I didn't read it
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beforehand, but now I am, obviously, and I'm like, whoa,
the ghoulish goings on, OK, but even as the body count rises,
there is yet more at work than meets the eye.
This is such a plot twist of a movie and I wish that I could
experience this for the first time because I was I was too
(21:25):
young to understand what I was truly watching at the time.
I didn't understand though I still appreciate it and that's
key. That is key.
I always appreciated this movie from day one.
Big fan of it and I still talk so highly about it.
And so I have like talked about it here and there as movies that
I enjoy or like, movies that I watch in the fall or whatever
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the case is 'cause it makes for a really good fall movie, but it
also makes for a really good summer movie.
I think it has to do with the cabin, the lake vibes.
But then like the forest stationis all brown.
I don't know. Anyways, Goddard who is the
director and the writer don't know how to pronounce his last
name, Whedon. Whedon.
(22:09):
ANYWAYS they Co wrote this together and they previously
worked together on Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel and
they wrote this in three days. They just kind of like shut
themselves in a hotel room and knocked it out in three days.
And they describe it as an attempt to revitalize the
slasher genre, but also it's a stands as a critical satire on
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torture porn. Both of them describe this movie
to be a loving hate letter to the genre.
It pokes fun at tired tropes while also paying homage.
And so there are so many references to previous horror
movies. I kind of wrote down the ones
that I could catch, but there are also still some more.
Every time I watch this movie, Iprobably noticed something new.
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But you have The Evil Dead, which is a very big inspiration
on this movie altogether. Like that is probably the
current running through this whole movie.
You also have Alien, you see theface Huggers, eventually
Hellraiser. There's a few things within
there and that one is obvious isalso a very obvious little
Easter egg. The Creature from the Black
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Lagoon, Another sort of obvious Easter egg re Animator, The
Strangers, The House on Haunted Hill, The Shining.
You also have some Easter eggs from video games and the most
significant one is Left 4 Dead, which was supposed to have a tie
in with Cabin in the Woods, but that fell through after MGM went
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bankrupt. Yet they still kept the Easter
eggs in the film. Something that I heard when I
was watching the director's commentary because yes, I do own
it on DVD. They were talking about the
importance of Kristen Connolly'scharacter, who, I don't remember
her character's name, but she's the blonde headed girl.
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And she's supposed to be that, like, you know, stereotypical
blonde bimbo of a horror movie, her kill.
And like the time that she dies,the director and the writer were
talking about it and how they really wanted to avoid mixing
violence and nudity and how, youknow, like, the only time she
really has her shirt off is in that initial moment when her and
(24:28):
Chris Hemsworth begin to hook up.
But as soon as she receives violence, her shirt never comes
open again. And I thought that that was a
really interesting note to hear them talk about, you know,
especially because obviously infamously, horror is very male
centric in terms of the male gaze.
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And so when it comes to nudity and violence, there doesn't seem
to be as much intention with demonstrating and depicting it.
So yeah, if that's listen, take that as a sign.
Y'all need to. Y'all need to get your physical
media. The director's commentaries are
so good. I love them.
(25:10):
I remember watching this for thefirst time and being so scared
at the one part where Kristen Connolly's character makes out
with the werewolf head because Ithought it was going to come to
life. And every time I watch it, like
I rewatch it, I still for a split second like have that
thought. And I think moments like that
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where movies can still sort of like bring you back to that
first time that you watched it are so special.
But I think that this movie really revived what we
considered to be satirical horror like Scary Movie at this
time had run its course, and others tried to fill that gap.
But Cabin in the Woods really just like swung out of left
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field with something so unforgettable.
The last media on this list is one that I've actually already
dedicated an episode 2, and you can go ahead and listen to that
if you would love to. And maybe, maybe you should
before you listen to the next episode of the month because it
(26:17):
is featuring the director and wewill be talking about
perpetrator, which came out in 2023.
It's directed by Jennifer Reader.
And it follows Johnny Baptiste, played by Kya Mckernan, who is a
reckless teen sent to live with her estranged Aunt Hildy, played
by Alicia Silverstone. On her 18th birthday, she
experiences A radical metamorphosis, a family spell
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that redefines her called Forever Inc.
When several teen girls go missing at her new school, a
mythically feral Johnny goes after the perpetrator.
My general thoughts. This is a black and queer film.
When I saw it at Tribeca, I did not know that.
Like I went in just knowing thatit was like a feminist horror
(27:02):
film and the cover for it and like, not the cover at the time,
but the still that I saw was oneof those like, I don't know,
like like dissected frames whereit's like it's like splitting
the frame into like fragments oflike 8 or whatever.
Hopefully you see that picture. If not, I don't know.
(27:23):
I don't know what to tell you. But I was very intrigued.
I was also intrigued by the factthat Alicia Silverstone was in
it because, well, clueless queen, she is the she is the pop
Princess of teen dramas of the 90s.
So I was very excited for that. And yeah, you know, Black horror
film 2 did not know it was queer, though.
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And I thought that that added such an extra level to the
narrative at hand because this film, I mean, often times when
we talk about feminist horror, when we talk about feminist
narratives in general, it sometimes misses that
intersectionality of being black, of being a woman, of
(28:07):
being queer. And that's what really has stuck
with me all this time, ever since I've watched Perpetrator
for the first time. The further I got into the film,
I knew that this wasn't going tobe a crowd pleaser, like not
even by a long shot. But I it did not stop me.
Like, the more that this movie just ran, I loved it and loved
(28:29):
it and it just kept me hooked because also, yeah, it was, you
know, talking about Elder Troyerand the unknowable being the
scariest thing, the lack of control, the insignificance,
Those are all scary. But this was like, almost a
revenge type of thing where it was like, you know, this
(28:54):
metamorphosis that you go through as a teen girl, it is
unknowable and it's scary and it's strange.
And yet Johnny sort of takes it and morphs it into something
that she can use to give her power and to reclaim her power.
And it was just, yeah, great movie, great vibes.
And I got out of the movie, as Isuspected.
(29:17):
I went on letterbox to men who had never had their first period
before. Like I, I was like, I knew that
y'all were not going to get it. Men who did not understand the
experience of growing into a woman.
And that's OK. But like Mark that you watched
it and leave it at that. You don't have to rate it.
You don't have to share your opinion.
(29:38):
But if it speaks to anything, there's an 80% critic rating on
Rotten Tomatoes and a 30% audience score.
I do not necessarily tote aroundRotten Tomatoes propaganda, like
I don't really like Rotten Tomatoes that much, but it just
(29:59):
goes to show that if the criticswere pleased, then perhaps on an
objective level it's a good movie.
It also just has really excitingand intriguing imagery.
Like you, you could probably watch it on silent and still be
entertained, but don't do that. So while this sub genre may not
(30:22):
be as definitive as the others we've discussed thus far, may it
still guide you all the same. These are probably mainly used
by horror fans amongst other horror fans, but it can still
help with writing, filmmaking and just understanding the world
of fiction. So I hope that I, through this
episode, gave you something new to look into, give you something
(30:44):
to keep in the back of your mindthe next time you watch a movie
and you're like, is this horror?Well, maybe could be eldritch
horror could be. Before we go, don't forget to
make sure you're following me onsocial media.
Follow me on Twitter at Averys Crypt, follow me on on Instagram
(31:06):
at your horror podcast. Follow me on TikTok at Averys
crypt. Follow me on sub stack at your
horror podcast. I don't know where else I don't
know, but if you find me one place, you're guaranteed to find
me everywhere else. That's for fact.
The other thing. This is a product of what
happened in Pride month. I collaborated with Meson sent
(31:29):
on a candle that would still contribute to mix NYC the same
way that our candle workshop did.
And so it's called Scream Queen.There's nice little blood
splatters on it. It's supposed to smell like,
what was it? Blood soaked steps on a creaky
floor and neon signs and 80s camp and all of the things that
(31:53):
you would ever think of when you're watching.
I don't know, maybe Maxine. So it smells so good.
I literally like have made everyone, I've made everyone
smell it. Everyone says it smells so good.
So if you're interested in checking that out, it's $38.50
percent of it goes to Mix NYC. So the link is in the show notes
below. If you want to take a look at
(32:14):
it, maybe add it to your cart. But in the meantime, make sure
to check out our next episode inwhat, 2 weeks with Jennifer
Reader. It's a very exciting, great
episode. And yeah, thank you so much for
tuning in, and I'll catch you next episode.
Bye. Listen, I read my Entertainment
(32:38):
Weekly, OK? I know my shit.
You like horror movies? You're listening to Unbound and
Rebound. Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of the Unbound and Rewound Horror
podcast where we dive deeper into every horror book and movie
(00:23):
for a closer look at their bone chilling anatomy.
I am Avery, your queer fully fearfully host.
Make sure you're following me onInstagram, Twitter and TikTok
and Substack at your horror podcast for the latest horror
content and podcast updates, such as what to expect for every
(00:46):
new episode. Season 10 is organized a little
like summer school. We're talking a different horror
sub genre for the next three months, which technically this
is the last month. And so in this last month, we're
focusing on Eldridge horror, otherwise known as Lovecraftian
horror, otherwise known as cosmic horror and so on and so
(01:07):
forth. And so in preparation for this
month and the conversations we're having, I have been
watching a lot of eldritch horror.
I say a lot. It hasn't really been too much,
but I challenged myself to at least watch one new movie.
And I chose Society from 19901989, either 1989 or 1986.
(01:34):
I don't, I don't remember eitherway.
So I watched that and I have been wanting to watch it because
it was in an essay book I read recently and it's just been in
the back of my mind. And so I finally got to watch
it. It was absolutely absurd.
I have to say. I like, I was fully prepared for
(01:56):
its absurdism and yet it's stillout absurd itself.
So goals were definitely met andthings were achieved.
On what level I'm not entirely sure.
I also watch Cabin in the Woods to prepare for this episode.
And outside of that I watched from, which technically is like
(02:19):
Elder Tour. Like, yeah, that's very Elder
Tour. I'm trying to catch up to Season
3 because it was coming out and I didn't have MGM and so now I'm
watching it but I have not been able to fully emotionally
connect to the season yet so once I do there will be more to
discuss there. What else, What else?
(02:45):
I also finally finished the Vampire Lestat after what, 3
months? Very proud of myself, Very happy
to be over with that because I'mready to move on to new books.
Granted. Love Lestat, love Anne Rice,
can't wait for season 3 of Interview with the Vampire but
it's time to read other things. I moved on to Stephen Graham
(03:07):
Jones's upcoming double saga. Currently reading Killer on the
Road which is just been on the whole like urban legend sort of
folk, not folk tale but like Fable.
I guess I'm just like the killerhitchhiker and it's good so far.
I did try to read. I was a teenage slasher when it
(03:29):
came out and I couldn't really get into its narration, I think
in part because it was a male protagonist, and I don't really
like to read male protagonists, but that's something I'm working
through. So, so far, I'm liking Killer on
the Road and I'm excited to see where it goes.
(03:51):
Now, if you have been reading any of the same things I've been
reading, if you've been reading something you think I would
like, or if you've been reading something that you just really,
really want to talk about, please share.
You can drop a comment if you are listening on Spotify or you
can always reach me on Instagram, TikTok, Sub stack,
(04:14):
any of those places. If you've been watching
something really exciting, reading something, streaming
something, whatever it is, please let me know.
And now we can finally get into what this episode is truly
about. Because while it is very
insightful, it there's not. We're working with only a
(04:37):
little. We're working with very small
information. So without further ado, what's
scarier than confronting the existentialism of being a human
amongst the cosmos? You may have that friend whose
favorite excuses we're all living on a floating rock,
alluding to the idea that we areinconsequential.
(04:58):
And yet there is a subgenre out there that exists to prove we
matter until nature and the unnatural decides we don't.
So what is this Elder Tore that I keep Speaking of?
It can be often described as something that is uncanny,
unearthly, and weird in a supernatural way.
(05:22):
It's kind of like an amalgamation of cosmicism and
the elements of HP Lovecraft's work, which is why Lovecraftian
horror and Elder Tour are often discussed in tandem.
Where cosmicism explores the chaos of the natural and human
world, Elder Tour is more defined by its supernatural
(05:44):
qualities. Lovecraftian and eldritch whore
don't always exist at once, though.
Lovecraft's work becomes eldritch when the evil defies
the conventions of time, space, and existence.
The way we understand them, at least, they remind us that we
aren't in control no matter how much we try to exert it.
(06:06):
Some arguments I've seen online suggest that eldritch horror is
just cosmic horror, but cosmic horror is only one part of
eldritch horror. Alien, for example, could be
cosmic horror, but it may not necessarily be eldritch.
Through what I found online, there seem to be 4 main
(06:27):
components of what can be considered to be eldritch
horror. So you have this sense of
insignificance, which is sort ofwhat I was speaking to before,
where it's like, you know, as humans we think that we are the
apex predator, so to speak, and we cause wars and we have all of
these impacts on the nature around us.
(06:50):
And yet these films, these narratives, serve to remind us
that we aren't as significant aswe want to believe we are.
And within that, there's also a psychological horror element to
it. Between that and just the way
that these manifestations of some larger power, some larger,
control how they interact with the characters at hand too, you
(07:15):
also have the cosmic scale of how great something is in
comparison to these human lives.And then forbidden knowledge,
which can you know. You can probably consider, like
the Evil Dead and the Necronomicon to be forbidden
knowledge, things within that sphere.
(07:36):
Looking into as many resources as I could find, I think I've
come to find that these terms are all interchangeable really.
Lovecraftian can mean both cosmic and eldritch.
Eldritch can mean something different than cosmic.
The term eldritch in relation tohorror seems to have gained
popularity in the last decade post release of the tabletop RPG
(08:01):
game named Eldritch Horror, which is based on HP Lovecraft
stories. So maybe we'll see more of this
to come within the next decade. And I think that there is a
strong likelihood of this because we're already seeing a
rise in eco horror or ecologicalhorror.
(08:21):
It's the same in the way that itcan be considered cosmic or
eldritch depending on its elements.
This is a sub genre on the rise and I think we all probably know
the reason why. You can consider these movies to
be nature's revenge on humanity and it values its themes more
than other technical elements. So what does this mean, given
(08:45):
that we don't have a lot of information, given that it seems
to be so new that very few people are talking about it?
I think that this is one of those times when subjectivity is
key because there is no definitive right or wrong
perception of this growing sub genre.
(09:06):
But just like with any other subgenre, it's intended to help you
understand the flexibility of the genre.
Horror has never been just one thing, so understanding it's
many faces is so helpful for discovering what you like and
don't like as a viewer, watcher,and a reader.
(09:26):
As I have been doing for the past two months, I have gathered
3 pieces of media that I think best exemplify this sub genre
we're exploring for the month. The very last one will be the
piece of media we'll be talking about in the next episode
featuring the director. So before we get to that one,
(09:51):
our first media, which is one that I, I forget, it's kind of
like a hidden gem for me becauseI forget it exists.
And yet I don't like people willsay like, oh, what's one of the
best movies you've ever seen? What's 1 of the scariest movies
you've ever seen? Like whatever.
And it's just not within that collection in my mind.
(10:16):
But it is truly one of the best horror movies I've ever seen.
And that's crazy to say. I think maybe because I know
some people feel otherwise, but that's OK.
Anyways, enough blubbering. The Ruins 2008 directed by
Carter Smith. So we have Amy, who's played by
Jenna Malone, you know, Hunger Games Diva Stacy played by Laura
(10:40):
Ramsey, Jeff played by Jonathan Tucker, and Eric played by Sean
Ashmore, who are looking for funduring a sunny holiday in
Mexico. But they get much more than
that. After visiting an archaeological
dig in the jungle, carnivorous vines try to ensnare the friends
in their tendrils, forcing the group to fight for survival.
(11:02):
It's based on the 2006 Scott Smith novel of the same name,
and quite frankly, I'm unsure ifCarter Smith and Scott Smith
have any relation to each other or if that is just pure
coincidence. It is kind of like if Cabin
Fever tried to be woke in like aclimate conscious kind of way.
(11:22):
And because of this movie, I made a whole new letterbox to
tag titled Movies that I would show Greta Gerwig because not
Greta Gerwig, Greta Thunberg. Movies that I would show Greta
Thunberg. And I think that she would kind
of probably love The Ruins. My overall general thoughts for
(11:46):
The Ruins. I have to say that I find no
greater sense of anxiety than when watching a sci-fi horror
film. The unknown elements of these
narratives make them exhilarating watches.
So in a sense perhaps Elder Tor is some of the scariest in my
opinion. As someone who famously has
(12:07):
anxiety, that checks out. The themes of this specific film
are American tourism AKA like white tourism as well
colonialism, privilege and racism.
Comments are made specifically in the beginning with
misconceptions that usually we'll hear like in Western
(12:27):
colonial, like perceptions of quote, UN quote, third world
countries and whatever. But these comments are made
about Mayan history and the racist perspectives of Mexico.
And so, like, some of the thingsthat they were saying were like
talking about how the local natives of this specific place
(12:48):
that they're visiting might be preparing for a sacrifice when
they're not sure exactly what they're doing.
But they're like, they're kind of acting sporadic.
They're setting stuff up. What are they doing?
Must be preparing for a sacrifice because they are brown
on their indigenous island. Sure.
They also talk about the poor water quality.
(13:09):
They're like making margaritas. And one of the characters is
like, oh, yeah, those margaritasare made with ice.
You know what The shit water. OK, how about you wait a second
because you didn't have to visithere.
Like, you did not have to take awhole vacation to Mexico if
you're just going to talk horribly about it the entire
(13:29):
time. And I think that like between
this and other instances in which they're talking to, you
know, like local civilians and they can't communicate with them
properly or they just exhibit like a certain level of
uneducation. I think that the movie in
(13:49):
general speaks to not knowing the history and culture and
customs of the place that you visit.
Because ultimately, they would not have gotten into this
situation had they A, learned the language of the places that
they were going to be exploring and B, looked up if there were
any particular places that they probably should not visit.
(14:11):
Like, and granted, they didn't have TikTok back then, but I'm
sure that on some forum, on someblog, some historian or some
geologist or whoever was talkingabout it.
Like if you just did enough research, I'm sure you could
have found it. Because me, I'm going to go on
TikTok and look up places I should not visit because I need
(14:34):
to know because I'm not going toget into a situation like this.
It also the movie itself does depict the locals as
superstitious and militant despite their beliefs persuading
their actions. And so on one hand it's like
(14:54):
this is written by by white people.
So like, you know, maybe it's one of those like, ally things
that they had the right intention and the right heart,
but but they just didn't get it 100% or like, 'cause it, it kind
of feels contradictory to what the movie seems to be saying,
(15:16):
but I'm not sure. Then you also have like this
white woman who gets a local child killed because once again,
she doesn't know what the local people are trying to tell her.
You have this woman who this white tourist woman who gets
this child killed because she's just exhibiting this like
(15:41):
exorbitant amount of of privilege.
And like also like, I feel like there's another word that better
encapsulates the situation at hand here.
She's just like, 'cause she justkeeps taking pictures of like
the local children and there's like this romanticization that
(16:04):
she seems to have of this community, and yet, like, she
lacks the appreciation for it inthe same way.
I don't know. It's weird, but they even
acknowledge their own privilege at one point when they're
talking about how they're going to be rescued and how they're
(16:26):
going to get out of there. And one of the characters says
four Americans don't just disappear.
And I think that that sentence in itself, really, I think that
sentence in itself summarizes what this movie aims to achieve,
(16:47):
or at least in my opinion, probably the book too.
I just have never read it. But I think it is this
recognition that like as an American, there is this overall
privilege because of the nationalism and the patriotism
(17:07):
that we have sort of been instilled with.
Maybe, perhaps, perhaps those are the right words I'm looking
for. Yeah, I think that, like, I
mean, every time a white American I can, I can probably
remember at least two times in the past where a white American
(17:29):
man has done something in North Korea or Russia or Vietnam where
the he clearly disobeyed a law that is pretty standard and
that's known amongst everyone. And that has that is previously
told to him before he breaks thelaw and he gets imprisoned.
(17:51):
And then America makes this big deal about it where it's like,
oh, please bring him home. Bring him home.
And it's like, OK, well, maybe he shouldn't have broken the
law. Like maybe he should have just,
I don't know, follow the rules and respected the place in which
he was visiting. But that's just me, that's just
(18:13):
me. The thing with this movie that I
love so much though is when shithits the fan, it is a never
ending bag of tricks and gags and not in the fun way.
The vacation thriller becomes this eco horror survivalist
narrative once you learn the reason why the local natives are
(18:33):
so superstitious of the formidable ruins.
These vines can mimic sound, move as a unit and they spread
like a cancer. You never fully understand what
the plants or ruins are, but youdo have an idea based on the
deductive reasoning of the characters.
One of them says it has to be old talking about the ruins
(18:55):
because the birds and insects have learned not to land here.
There is this one part after they've removed the vines from
Stacy that all three of them seea small little vine squirm
across her forehead and it's like underneath her skin and
then fall silent and she starts to become suspicious.
(19:15):
And it's just in that moment, the timing is so good.
And that's how the entire movie is like.
I just think that the I just think that it's very well
written and executed. The gore is so well done and the
tension just continues to build.So big fan of that movie.
(19:39):
Very, very great example of eco horror and eldritch horror.
And yeah, I think, hey, I support the vines.
I do the second media that I have previously spoken about, as
(19:59):
in in this episode and like lightly on other occasions, but
I've never dedicated a lot of time to it.
Cabin in the Woods, 2011, directed by Drew Goddard.
Surely you know what this movie is like.
And if you don't like, first of all, you need to figure
something out about that. You need to find that movie and
(20:20):
watch it immediately. Because it is so good, it
follows 5 college friends, played by Kristen Connolly,
Chris Hemsworth, Anna Hutchison,Fran Kranz and Jesse Williams,
who arrive at a remote forest cabin for a little vacation.
(20:41):
But little do they expect the horrors that await them. 1 by 1,
the youths fall victim to backwood zombies.
But there's another factor at play.
The two scientists, Richard Jenkins and Bradley Whitford,
are manipulating the ghoulish goings on.
That's crazy. I y'all.
I copied this from Rotten Tomatoes and I didn't read it
(21:04):
beforehand, but now I am, obviously, and I'm like, whoa,
the ghoulish goings on, OK, but even as the body count rises,
there is yet more at work than meets the eye.
This is such a plot twist of a movie and I wish that I could
experience this for the first time because I was I was too
(21:25):
young to understand what I was truly watching at the time.
I didn't understand though I still appreciate it and that's
key. That is key.
I always appreciated this movie from day one.
Big fan of it and I still talk so highly about it.
And so I have like talked about it here and there as movies that
I enjoy or like, movies that I watch in the fall or whatever
(21:47):
the case is 'cause it makes for a really good fall movie, but it
also makes for a really good summer movie.
I think it has to do with the cabin, the lake vibes.
But then like the forest stationis all brown.
I don't know. Anyways, Goddard who is the
director and the writer don't know how to pronounce his last
name, Whedon. Whedon.
(22:09):
ANYWAYS they Co wrote this together and they previously
worked together on Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel and
they wrote this in three days. They just kind of like shut
themselves in a hotel room and knocked it out in three days.
And they describe it as an attempt to revitalize the
slasher genre, but also it's a stands as a critical satire on
(22:33):
torture porn. Both of them describe this movie
to be a loving hate letter to the genre.
It pokes fun at tired tropes while also paying homage.
And so there are so many references to previous horror
movies. I kind of wrote down the ones
that I could catch, but there are also still some more.
Every time I watch this movie, Iprobably noticed something new.
(22:57):
But you have The Evil Dead, which is a very big inspiration
on this movie altogether. Like that is probably the
current running through this whole movie.
You also have Alien, you see theface Huggers, eventually
Hellraiser. There's a few things within
there and that one is obvious isalso a very obvious little
Easter egg. The Creature from the Black
(23:19):
Lagoon, Another sort of obvious Easter egg re Animator, The
Strangers, The House on Haunted Hill, The Shining.
You also have some Easter eggs from video games and the most
significant one is Left 4 Dead, which was supposed to have a tie
in with Cabin in the Woods, but that fell through after MGM went
(23:41):
bankrupt. Yet they still kept the Easter
eggs in the film. Something that I heard when I
was watching the director's commentary because yes, I do own
it on DVD. They were talking about the
importance of Kristen Connolly'scharacter, who, I don't remember
her character's name, but she's the blonde headed girl.
(24:04):
And she's supposed to be that, like, you know, stereotypical
blonde bimbo of a horror movie, her kill.
And like the time that she dies,the director and the writer were
talking about it and how they really wanted to avoid mixing
violence and nudity and how, youknow, like, the only time she
really has her shirt off is in that initial moment when her and
(24:28):
Chris Hemsworth begin to hook up.
But as soon as she receives violence, her shirt never comes
open again. And I thought that that was a
really interesting note to hear them talk about, you know,
especially because obviously infamously, horror is very male
centric in terms of the male gaze.
(24:49):
And so when it comes to nudity and violence, there doesn't seem
to be as much intention with demonstrating and depicting it.
So yeah, if that's listen, take that as a sign.
Y'all need to. Y'all need to get your physical
media. The director's commentaries are
so good. I love them.
(25:10):
I remember watching this for thefirst time and being so scared
at the one part where Kristen Connolly's character makes out
with the werewolf head because Ithought it was going to come to
life. And every time I watch it, like
I rewatch it, I still for a split second like have that
thought. And I think moments like that
(25:32):
where movies can still sort of like bring you back to that
first time that you watched it are so special.
But I think that this movie really revived what we
considered to be satirical horror like Scary Movie at this
time had run its course, and others tried to fill that gap.
But Cabin in the Woods really just like swung out of left
(25:55):
field with something so unforgettable.
The last media on this list is one that I've actually already
dedicated an episode 2, and you can go ahead and listen to that
if you would love to. And maybe, maybe you should
before you listen to the next episode of the month because it
(26:17):
is featuring the director and wewill be talking about
perpetrator, which came out in 2023.
It's directed by Jennifer Reader.
And it follows Johnny Baptiste, played by Kya Mckernan, who is a
reckless teen sent to live with her estranged Aunt Hildy, played
by Alicia Silverstone. On her 18th birthday, she
experiences A radical metamorphosis, a family spell
(26:40):
that redefines her called Forever Inc.
When several teen girls go missing at her new school, a
mythically feral Johnny goes after the perpetrator.
My general thoughts. This is a black and queer film.
When I saw it at Tribeca, I did not know that.
Like I went in just knowing thatit was like a feminist horror
(27:02):
film and the cover for it and like, not the cover at the time,
but the still that I saw was oneof those like, I don't know,
like like dissected frames whereit's like it's like splitting
the frame into like fragments oflike 8 or whatever.
Hopefully you see that picture. If not, I don't know.
(27:23):
I don't know what to tell you. But I was very intrigued.
I was also intrigued by the factthat Alicia Silverstone was in
it because, well, clueless queen, she is the she is the pop
Princess of teen dramas of the 90s.
So I was very excited for that. And yeah, you know, Black horror
film 2 did not know it was queer, though.
(27:46):
And I thought that that added such an extra level to the
narrative at hand because this film, I mean, often times when
we talk about feminist horror, when we talk about feminist
narratives in general, it sometimes misses that
intersectionality of being black, of being a woman, of
(28:07):
being queer. And that's what really has stuck
with me all this time, ever since I've watched Perpetrator
for the first time. The further I got into the film,
I knew that this wasn't going tobe a crowd pleaser, like not
even by a long shot. But I it did not stop me.
Like, the more that this movie just ran, I loved it and loved
(28:29):
it and it just kept me hooked because also, yeah, it was, you
know, talking about Elder Troyerand the unknowable being the
scariest thing, the lack of control, the insignificance,
Those are all scary. But this was like, almost a
revenge type of thing where it was like, you know, this
(28:54):
metamorphosis that you go through as a teen girl, it is
unknowable and it's scary and it's strange.
And yet Johnny sort of takes it and morphs it into something
that she can use to give her power and to reclaim her power.
And it was just, yeah, great movie, great vibes.
And I got out of the movie, as Isuspected.
(29:17):
I went on letterbox to men who had never had their first period
before. Like I, I was like, I knew that
y'all were not going to get it. Men who did not understand the
experience of growing into a woman.
And that's OK. But like Mark that you watched
it and leave it at that. You don't have to rate it.
You don't have to share your opinion.
(29:38):
But if it speaks to anything, there's an 80% critic rating on
Rotten Tomatoes and a 30% audience score.
I do not necessarily tote aroundRotten Tomatoes propaganda, like
I don't really like Rotten Tomatoes that much, but it just
(29:59):
goes to show that if the criticswere pleased, then perhaps on an
objective level it's a good movie.
It also just has really excitingand intriguing imagery.
Like you, you could probably watch it on silent and still be
entertained, but don't do that. So while this sub genre may not
(30:22):
be as definitive as the others we've discussed thus far, may it
still guide you all the same. These are probably mainly used
by horror fans amongst other horror fans, but it can still
help with writing, filmmaking and just understanding the world
of fiction. So I hope that I, through this
episode, gave you something new to look into, give you something
(30:44):
to keep in the back of your mindthe next time you watch a movie
and you're like, is this horror?Well, maybe could be eldritch
horror could be. Before we go, don't forget to
make sure you're following me onsocial media.
Follow me on Twitter at Averys Crypt, follow me on on Instagram
(31:06):
at your horror podcast. Follow me on TikTok at Averys
crypt. Follow me on sub stack at your
horror podcast. I don't know where else I don't
know, but if you find me one place, you're guaranteed to find
me everywhere else. That's for fact.
The other thing. This is a product of what
happened in Pride month. I collaborated with Meson sent
(31:29):
on a candle that would still contribute to mix NYC the same
way that our candle workshop did.
And so it's called Scream Queen.There's nice little blood
splatters on it. It's supposed to smell like,
what was it? Blood soaked steps on a creaky
floor and neon signs and 80s camp and all of the things that
(31:53):
you would ever think of when you're watching.
I don't know, maybe Maxine. So it smells so good.
I literally like have made everyone, I've made everyone
smell it. Everyone says it smells so good.
So if you're interested in checking that out, it's $38.50
percent of it goes to Mix NYC. So the link is in the show notes
below. If you want to take a look at
(32:14):
it, maybe add it to your cart. But in the meantime, make sure
to check out our next episode inwhat, 2 weeks with Jennifer
Reader. It's a very exciting, great
episode. And yeah, thank you so much for
tuning in, and I'll catch you next episode.
Bye. Listen, I read my Entertainment
(32:38):
Weekly, OK? I know my shit.
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