suburban horror: interview with author vincent e. tirado

keeping with the suburban horror, author vincent e. tirado joins the conversation to talk about their sapphic horror novel WE CAME TO WELCOME YOU: a story about a married couple's security unraveling beneath the pressure of their new HOA. we talk I Saw the TV Glow, queer horror, and the story's intersection with eldritch horror.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I hear you like horror movies. You're listening to Unbound and
Rewound. Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of The Unbound and Rewound Horror

(00:20):
podcast where we dive deeper into every horror book and movie
for a closer look at their bone chilling anatomy.
I am Avery, you're queerfully fearfully host.
Make sure you're following me onInstagram, Twitter and TikTok
and Sub Stack and wherever else at your horror podcast for the

(00:43):
latest horror content and podcast updates, such as what to
expect for every new episode. Joining us today is an author of
expertise in this month's topic,Suburban horror.
So, Vincent, would you like to go ahead and introduce yourself
to the people? Of course.
Hi everyone, I'm Vincent Theorado.
I'm a horror author that has worked in the YA space, but now

(01:06):
have started dipping my toes a little bit into adult horror.
And you know how how I'm kind ofnavigating that is definitely an
interesting process. Which I'm very interested to
hear, and we will be getting into that a little bit later,
but for now we were just talkingabout sinners.
Is there anything else that has really just hooked your

(01:27):
attention you've just been devouring, whether that is a
book or a movie or ATV show? So I OK, I'm watching this
begrudgingly. I am watching season 5 of you.
Oh, the Netflix show. I'm watching it begrudgingly
'cause I'm already Four Seasons deep.

(01:49):
Like I gotta finish it. It's the last season I gotta
I'm. I am so sick to death of this
white man I'm so. Sick.
Of it, Oh my God and it. Goes he's, he's just it's a
pattern, it's a cycle and it keeps repeating and I'm like it
just. Keeps going and like he thinks
that like oh as long as I'm selfaware it's OK.
No motherfucker, go to therapy. Too much wealth awareness is

(02:15):
wrong actually. Right.
Like, and I think for me, what what I'm actually specifically
annoyed by 'cause I'm only, I'm only the first two episodes into
season 5. I'm like, I'm kind of going into
it slowly 'cause I. I there's only so much I need to
take my time. I think what like I have started
to like kind of hate. And this is like not even just

(02:36):
exclusive to season 5, but also a little bit about what I hate
about season 4. It's simply not interesting to
me to watch rich people be awfulto each other.
Like if I wanted that experience, I would have watched
White Lotus. I don't even know what White
Lotus is about, but that's the vibe I got.
It was just like it's the. Thing is, it's better than you
at least. OK, I'll give you that cause

(02:59):
I've never seen it, but I'm justlike when when season 1 dropped,
it was at least like a little bit more compelling 'cause this
was just some guy, you know, he was truly just some.
Guy. And then season 4 and five, he
becomes just some guy who repeatedly lands these rich and
influential wives and then like kind of sucks the money out of

(03:21):
them. And like, I'm just like, I don't
wanna fucking see that. I don't want to see it, but I'm
gonna watch it anyways 'cause I need to see how this story ends.
And I think that the way that people gravitated towards movies
like The Menu, for example, somehow the message got lost and

(03:42):
just people just think that we want to see rich people suffer.
But like, no, it's not that exactly.
It's like, I want to see them. I want to see come up and like I
want to see revenge from. Someone.
Them or who who from someone whosees rich people as someone
beneath them morally and ethically to.

(04:03):
Which like. Joe is just now a white man with
money and a really killer instinct.
Like really killer and off putting and freakish.
Like it's and The thing is like he's never he's never fucking
satisfied. Like I thought season 4 when he

(04:24):
pulled that shit with that, you know, that's one student.
Like I thought like, OK, he's fully evil now.
Like this is just Darth Vader. Like I don't I don't know what
the like. He's just he's leaning into it
because he like he said, he has all this money.
He now has all this power. He like he can do whatever that
like. So I was like OK, this is.
A good stop. Like, I don't know what they're
gonna do in the next season. And lo and behold, here's the

(04:46):
next season and I have to see him twiddle his fucking thumbs
about like, wow, these rich people are awful.
I'm like, that's. You motherfucker, that's you
right now. I'm so bored now that I'm not
cheating on my wife and I have all this money.
If you like, give yourself a joblike you are.
You are jobless and at this point almost illiterate.

(05:07):
When was the last time you picked up a damn book?
Right, like it's and like, OK, so I I fully understand that
this is like intentional, but like now the the the.
The new white manic Pixie dream girl that comes in, I'm just
like, she's really leading into the manic Pixie dream girl.
Like, like from the first time that she speaks to him, I was

(05:28):
just like, this is like, they'rereally leaning into that trope
with her, like. Like, I get it, you.
Know like 2012 all over again. Like 2 on.
The Yeah. Yeah, it's just like we got to
pull it back a little bit. Like I, I, I don't know, like,
'cause, 'cause I'm, it was, it was interesting season one.
It was somewhat interesting season 1, 'cause I look at Beck

(05:49):
and I'm like, yeah, this is likeevery white girl I've ever met.
Like I it's it's, but it was fun.
Yeah, but like now it's like, OK, he's married to this rich,
influential, you know, British woman who feels guilty about
like these pipeline that's this pipeline that like introduced
cancer to children and it. Just Oh my God, I could talk

(06:12):
forever on this and we don't need to do that.
But like I'm just like it. It's so much felt like it's
bleaching the the story. It just, it feels like it's
bleaching it further. Yeah.
Truly, I think a lot of people are in the same boat where it's
just like it's the final season.I don't think if if, if it were
to not be the final season, I don't think as many people would

(06:34):
be watching it. I definitely wouldn't be.
Right, right. I think we're just a little
curious as to how they're going to wrap it up considering the
way things are going. Probably not well, probably not
a strong ending, but we signed this deal back in what, 2018 at

(06:54):
this point? Yeah, even.
Remember when that show came out?
I will say Penn Badgley like theactor is so fucking funny
because I remember when season 4dropped, he he made all these
tik toks where he was basically talking to himself like you
know, like talking to his character being like don't kill
people murder is bad and I I. Watched it, I was like oh this

(07:17):
is a really? Funniest kid.
And then later on I'm just like.Motherfucker, that was a
spoiler. Like I Penn Badgley, truly the
funniest motherfucker on this planet.
Like I 'cause I hate oh. My God, I, I am.
I am definitely someone who willwatch something simply because
of the cast. Yeah.
So like, I think that's one reason why I started watching
this, because you is not even something that I can like the

(07:41):
genre or like the type of narrative it is.
I don't even really like to consume stuff like that anymore.
Like it's just doesn't, it's notas thrilling as it is to other
people, but I want to see Pin Badgeley on my screen and until
he's in something else, well, that's all I.
Got like all we can. It's either this or going back
to watch Gossip Girl. Like those are your two options.
You know, like keep. Doing that.

(08:02):
And I can't keep saying you so. You are so right.
It's only only it can only happen once a year. 1 rewatch a
year is all I'm allowed. I think Penn Badgley is on like
the very short list of actors that I would love to write a
script for. Like I, I would kill something
like probably tortures of words,but you know what I mean, Like.

(08:24):
I would, I would kill someone towrite a script for Penn Badgley
to act out like what? Very short list of actors that I
would do this for. But like Penn Badgley, I'm just
like, I need, I need to see you act something that I've written.
No, he, you know, I say this a lot.
I am a strong hardcore lesbian to my core.

(08:45):
But I there are those, there arethose white men actors.
That. I just I will ride or die for.
Exactly. It's, it's, you know, and it's,
it's totally valid because. There's so many lesbians I know
who, like, feel the same way towards, like, Mads Mickelson,
like, like, other. And I'm just like, you know
what? Fair.

(09:06):
But for me, it's gonna be Penn Badgley.
It's gonna be like, yeah. Oh absolutely.
Have you ever seen the horror movie he was in with Leighton
Meester? No.
What's it called? Called drive through.
I have to write this down so I don't forget.
Write it down. I think it's still on Tubi.

(09:27):
It's quite a little bit of a trigger warning for a lot of
things. You have white men acting like
black men from Compton right offthe bat.
Right off the bat, we're talkingcornrows.
We're talking N word we're talking.
Yeah. But then they they very quickly,

(09:48):
they they come in and then they're out.
They're real out. But the the icon of the movie is
named Horny the Clown and he is like this punk rock like fast
food, fast food logo character from this place called
Hornberger. And it is possibly like the best

(10:14):
movie to come out of the early 2000s.
I watched this way too young, but I still like pin Badgeley is
like this donor with long hair and a lip piercing.
It's it's an experience that youdeserve.
Thank you, I I will definitely like look into that because

(10:36):
that's Oh my God, I, I have to see that now, no.
Absolutely. Other than so other than like
you, I have been. So every Sunday my friends and I
have been doing something calledSpike Lee Sunday where we watch
a different film that Spike Lee has both written and directed.
So it can't be something he's only directed but not written

(10:58):
and has to be both written and directed.
So like that that that shortens the list considerably.
And we just watched Black Klansmen yesterday.
Which was definitely an experience like I, I.
Had a lot of feelings about thatone because I.
Like, I know it's like a biopic,right?

(11:18):
Like sort of a biopic drama. I think like whatever, but I was
just kind of like, oh, this character, I want to be
sympathetic to him, but like he's so fucking stupid about so
many like, and I know, like, I know this was a real man.
I know this was a real man. This was a real thing that
happened, but I'm just like, Oh my God, if we could just get it
together as people. If we could just get it

(11:40):
together. No, it is.
It's one of those movies that I love behind closed doors because
I do think that from what I've heard from other people, it
doesn't sit well with many. And I don't, I don't know.

(12:00):
If it's because it's like. It's like the, I don't know,
like white woke of like the, Oh my God, I can't believe, like I
can't believe they're saying this on screen when it's like,
well, well, there's there's a point.
There's a point being made here.I mean, I watched Bamboozles a
few weeks ago and that shit was what?

(12:22):
Is that? It's another Spike Lee film,
came out like early 2000s and I believe it was like the last one
he had written and directed before, yeah.
Did you just look at. Oh, my God.
Yeah. And here's the thing.
Here's the thing. OK, So like, poster aside, like
movie poster aside, which, OK, the poster shows you a lot of

(12:46):
what's gonna be happening in thefilm.
But the story is so good. The story is so, so good because
it's like, bro, you were like 20years ahead of your time.
Yeah. You were so ahead.
Of your time with this and like he was punished for it like it I
think it like flopped like commercially or whatever like
people hated it. But then a couple of years ago,

(13:06):
it it was entered into the Library of Congress because of
how like it, it was an impactfulthing like.
He was again ahead of his time, bamboozled.
Like, truly. But yeah, so.
I find that with a lot of black comedies not like, not like
black, but like black comedies where it's just like the the

(13:27):
satire of it all is too like tooadvanced for people to
comprehend at the time. It's because we often have to
slowly walk ourselves to a pointwhere something like that is now
plausible. Yeah, 'cause at the time, it's
just like, oh, this would never happen.
It's too like, no, no, no, like this, this could never happen.
And then, like now we have Donald Trump as president for

(13:50):
the second time. And it's like, damn, we really?
That shit would happen now like.No, I like it, yeah.
I hate it. Talk about, Talk about a horror
movie. Talk about living out.
Talk about living out the Purge in real life, because I
remember. For sure.
Him being elected as president the first time around, that was
my fear. And I didn't even know.

(14:12):
I didn't even know what I was talking about.
And yet here we are. I remember like I remember going
to me and my friend went to likego drink at Chili's.
We were just like knocking back whatever alcoholic drinks like
on the night of the election. And then we went to bed and I
was just like, I don't want, like I I will look up who won in
the morning. It's not my problem right now.

(14:33):
Let me just go to bed drunk. And then I woke up and I had the
sinking feeling in my stomach that I knew it wasn't me being
hungover. And I was just like, I don't
want, let me not find out the bullshit.
But then I looked it up and I was just like.
Son of a bitch and then I went back to sleep.
I was and it happened again thisyear.
I have over last year like it, like I I woke up with that

(14:53):
sinking feeling and I was just like, I swear to God, I can, we
cannot. Of experience, like a lot of
people have have mentioned, experiencing that scary things
socially, politically and in themedia.
Some of our favorite media also,and one reason why we're here to

(15:14):
talk today. So what I like to do with all of
my guests when they come on my podcast, we have to establish
your history with horror. Of course.
We have to really understand where your roots come from.
No pun intended. That'll make sense to you all
listeners in a moment. So what is it about horror that

(15:35):
stuck out to you when you first discovered it?
So when I was in college, I was pre Med at the time, right?
And like I front loaded all of like the hard sciences into like
my first three years of just being in college.
So during my last year, I had nothing to do.
Like it was just a bunch of likecute little classes to give me

(15:56):
like the credits I needed to graduate.
And because I had so much free time on my hands, I was like,
you know what I want to do? I want to to watch a lot of
horror movies and I couldn't do it without being very drunk.
So I started watching horror movies drinking, and I knew that
if I got blackout drunk that meant the movie was too scary
for me and I needed to try againlater.

(16:18):
Oh my God. And then I slowly got to a point
where I could handle horror movies sober and I even started
to dissect horror movies and like, understand, like, what
about it like really stuck out to me.
What made it so good what the director or writer was trying to
say, how, like, you know, different twists or jump scares
really highlighted like the themes in the story.

(16:39):
I started getting really into horror as a craft even, you
know, just after once I was ableto sober sober handle it, I
guess. And I think for me, it's horror
has been a way to kind of safelyhandle everyday horrors.
You know, like it it it's a it'sa Safeway of of re engaging with

(17:02):
the trauma that you've already been dealt in some sort of way
or trauma that you haven't dealtwith.
Like I've never, you know, I've never been through a A.
Saw game and and now that I've seen the movies I know that he's
gonna have to kill me on site 'cause I'm not playing his
games. Absolutely a zombie apocalypse.
I'm simply not like I will actually put myself out of the

(17:25):
misery. Absolutely.
I honestly with zombie apocalypse, what I feel I'm
gonna do is I would genuinely get myself bitten on purpose,
not because I want to die. I want to know what it's like to
slowly turn like what are the symptoms like?
Because in in at least in zombieme.
This is me dissecting horror movies again in zombie media.

(17:46):
Like there's always that one person, there's usually like a
scientist or whatever who like has access to an MRI machine or
has access to whatever. And they're just like, we need
to understand like how this is working like in the at the core.
And so like they got themselves bitten or like they, you know,
have footage of someone being bitten and like getting like
slowly turned. And that's always been like
fascinating to me. So I know in a zombie

(18:07):
apocalypse. I would definitely like be the
one be like, you know what, I kind of want to see what the
fuck that's like, hold on, let me go out there for a second.
Like I, that would be me. I know I would die, but at least
I would die knowing, you know? Die knowing and dying with
dignity, because to be able to say that you're willingly going
and with a purpose. Yeah.
That's dignified. Yeah, that's also probably why I

(18:27):
would have like gone out in sinners.
Like if I was, I probably wouldn't just because of that
reason. Just like damn, I kind of want
to like I could be immortal. Let me fuck up the clan.
Like, hold on, let me go. Let me walk up out there.
Here's here's my thing, because this is the first time I've ever
empathized with someone trying to kill vampires.

(18:50):
I have always been a vampire Stan ever since I was out the
womb. So it's like for the first time
ever, I'm like, no, vampires arekind of bad.
But I also know like if one was coming towards me, would I
necessarily run away? Probably not.
It's, it's interesting, you know, like if an, if a vampire

(19:14):
gave me a choice, like if this was like, I don't know, Edward
Cullen or some shit, probably not that exact scenario, 'cause
I'm not fucking with vampires inthat way.
But if they gave me a choice, like, hey, do you want to like
live forever? I'd be like, absolutely not.
This world fucking sucks. I'm, I'm not living to see how
much worse it can get. You can have this shit like
that's if they gave me a choice,that's exactly how.

(19:34):
But if I didn't really have a choice, I'd be like, all right,
you know, at the very least I'llknow what, what it's like.
See, and that's the thing about vampires too, is like I
Interview with the Vampire has really brought so much
understanding to what it is liketo be a vampire because like
Vampire Diaries, I feel it's notas dreadful, like it's not as

(19:57):
depressing, but. Louie Louie will sit sit here
explaining to you in all the ways he wanted to kill himself.
And my thing is, I thought beinga vampire was cool.
I thought it was hot. I thought it was sexy.
But apparently it's also absolutely depressing and and
makes you suicidal. It's so like.

(20:19):
Every time I've ever, even before I saw an Interview with a
Vampire cause I've never read the books, I've never watched
the movie. So I came, I went straight into
that show blind as fuck, and I'mgrateful for it, that.
That's the truth. Way to experience it in my
opinion. But like, even before then, I
always thought like living forever.
Kind of has to suck. Like on some level it's not just
the oh, everyone you love dies around.

(20:41):
Like it's not on that. It's more like you continuously,
like there is no end to atrocities.
There is no end, and not is there.
Not only is there no end to the atrocities.
But if you try to stop it, people are going to look at you
like crazy because they're like,this is not your problem.
But you're like, I don't, it's my problem if I have to fucking
witness this shit. You know, like.

(21:02):
Like I, I understand Louis, like, you know, Louis, the black
version of of himself much better because he's already
grappling with being considered inhuman as a black man of being
considered a monster as a black man.
Like, and you know, the fact that he's like he was running
all these brothels. Like, obviously his family was

(21:22):
not fucking with that, but they were like, you know, you got to
make money. But he was still like, you know,
grappling with that turmoil, that turmoil of I got to do what
I got to do to survive. This is the only way we get
money to eat. Like I got to deal with all of
these racist ass motherfuckers, like looking down on me.
Like he's already dealing with that.
And then he becomes a vampire. And yeah, now he has all this

(21:44):
power to. Really make them fucking regret
it. But at that point, it's just
kind of like, is this your business anymore?
Because now you are truly like you are above humans in in some
sort of sense. Like this is not your problem.
But it still is 'cause he's still black.
Yeah, no, I started watching Interview with or reading

(22:05):
Interview with the Vampire afterthe after the second season of
the show ended 'cause I, it's like a drug addiction at this
point and I truly just need moreand more and more and more.
And I will say that the Vampire Lestat, which is the second
book, which is going to be what season 3 is based off of, is a

(22:27):
complete switch up of Louie's perspective.
And it's crazy the way that it'sjust like a full 180 in terms of
their attitudes regarding vampirism.
Like Lestat, if Lestat falls more in love with humankind as a
vampire because he sees them as a source of life, like, yes, he

(22:49):
is like taking, he's draining their blood.
But like, without them, he wouldn't be alive.
Like, it's, it's just this it's very it's much more complex than
I think I've ever really understood vampire lore.
Yeah, I love I've, I've fallen in love with Lestat.
Like I love Louis because I loveJacob Anderson.

(23:11):
I say this to everyone, but I love Lestat because Lestat is a
true diva. I love diva.
I love diva. Gotta love a messy bitch like Oh
my. God, like he's so unapologetic
with it. How can I hate?
I the ending of season 2 still fucking gets to me because I'm

(23:31):
just like, what do you mean? You knew this shit this whole
time? You knew what a snake Armand was
this whole time and you weren't cool.
Just like living it up in this fucking shack playing on a
wooden piano. Like what?
What the fuck? I Oh my God, it's, it's truly
he's, he's such a character thatI feel like the more I watch

(23:52):
him. I'm discovering something new
each time, you know? Like there's always something
more. No, yeah.
And that's what I love about notjust turning into an Interview
with the Vampire. Yeah, definitely I'm I'm
obsessed. But.
I noticed you had a poster behind you where you were
sitting before. Well, yes, no, that's what I
love about this series 2 is because with Lestat, you're

(24:17):
introduced to him through other people's perspectives in a way
that like, up until you finally get to meet him, he is just this
enigma. He is just this, this like mound
of words and like just of, of other people's observations.
And then you finally meet him and it's just like, whoa, I, I

(24:40):
didn't know. I didn't know.
This is how you really were. Wait, hold on, sit down.
Let's talk a little bit. I And that's something that like
as a horror author it's. I, I feel like I have my work
cut out for me in terms of like how far I want to grow, how far
I can grow, you know, like, 'cause I, I, I learn how to

(25:01):
write better through consuming more horror, through dissecting
other people's like horror stories and movies and like, you
know, whatever. So like when I see like how, you
know, Louis's entire journey through vampirism was handled
and then like now I'm going to get to see like Lestat's journey
like it's. Always like.
I-1, I'm looking as a viewer, like, I'm definitely enjoying it

(25:23):
as like, as we're all like experiencing it, but I'm also
looking at it as someone who wants to craft that well, you
know, like I, I, I also want to invoke those same feelings like
in, in the audience, like how doI do that so well?
How do I make sure that this connects, that this resonates,
that this like really like makespeople sit on the edge of their

(25:44):
seats? Like I, I look at the, you know,
this new interview with the vampire and I'm just like, I
want to do that. Like not exactly that, not like
exactly vampire, but like, I want to invoke those emotions.
I want to make the audience feelsomething that will last for a
while. No, I definitely agree.

(26:05):
And I definitely nowhere near the writer that you are.
But even in in my own attempts of writing, like I find that the
more books I read, particularly,the more that I see even just
like technique, like writing techniques where it's like, oh,
I didn't know that you could do it this way.

(26:28):
I didn't know that this was an option.
And I feel like the more that you consume, whether that is
movies or books or television oreven music, I feel you're just
becoming a stronger, stronger artist, especially if you're
interacting with it through sucha critical lens.

(26:48):
Now, is there a film that you wish you could have watched in
movie theaters the first time? This is a new question.
Like, I've never asked anyone this question before, but I was
recently thinking about it. And I'm like, hmm, I wonder what
people's answers would be. Oh my gosh.
That's yeah. OK, I got to think about this
one because like, because now that, yeah, now that I think

(27:15):
about it, I only when I started watching horror for the first
time, it was always like in my college dorm room with me with
like some bourbon in my hand or whatever alcohol of choice.
So like it was always, it was always like, you know, on a
screen, on a personal screen. But if there's like one that I'm
like, damn, I wish I could have experienced this in a theater.
I feel like, Oh my. OK, I'm gonna, I know we, we've

(27:43):
already talked about this before, but like definitely
would have to be, I saw the TV glow.
Like I would definitely want to experience that.
I feel like it would hit differently, like surrounded
with people, you know, like, 'cause I remember when that
movie came out. And again, I go into every
horror movie knowing nothing about it.
I don't watch the trailers. I don't look up anything about

(28:04):
it. I remember like just scrolling
on Tiktok and I would see peoplemaking those like.
Hey guys, this is me before I watch.
I saw the TV glow. And then afterwards they are
demolished. They, they have tears down like
no words. They're like, they're like
standing there with their, theirhands on their knees and they're
just like, I don't know if I know how to breathe anymore.
Like I and that was like very intriguing to me because I was

(28:28):
just like, they, they were always doing that, like
literally. Right after they got out of the
theater. So this wasn't staged.
This wasn't like, oh, like I'm at home and I'm going to like
fake tears or whatever. Like this was just like, I need
to fucking show you how powerfulthis was.
And I feel like being surroundedlike because it hit me very
fucking hard. It hit me so fucking hard.

(28:49):
I was like bawling. I was sobbing.
I like right after I watched it,I immediately put on Rick and
Morty because I was like, I needsomething really dumb to watch
to like kind of dull the sting. And so so I could like, you
know, process this in like a calm way.
Two days later, broke down sobbing with my wife on the
phone. She was just like, what's wrong?

(29:10):
I was just like, I'm just thinking about I saw the team
like I could not get words out. So I feel like if I had seen
that shit. Oh, I'm.
Tearing up or just thinking about it Had I?
Seen that shit in theater surrounded with people.
I would have been like like clawing at the walls like like
Oh my. It would have been such a

(29:30):
visceral experience. I I.
Saw it in theaters. And I still.
Didn't fully know what I was getting myself.
Into and I but I think like because of that I was, it was so

(29:51):
much more dreadful of an experience.
Like there it was just leaving the theater.
It was still sitting so heavy onmy shoulders that like, and I
continue to think about it for days and days and days after and
like now when I watch it, I think I get more sad than I did
watching it in the theater 'cause I also like.

(30:13):
To cry about. Except, except if you saw me
during sinners. I know you did it.
Oh my God. I just, I feel like had I seen
it in in theaters, I would have like been bawling, clawing at
the walls. I would have been like.
Someone get me a surgeon, I needto have top surgery right now.

(30:34):
Like someone hit like it would have been insane.
I did get top surgery eventually, but like, yeah.
That would have been that would have been an insane main
marketing tactic. It's like go watch I saw the TV
glow and then you have a top surgeon waiting outside for a
console. That wouldn't yo.
That would have been. So fucking sick.
Like, I don't know, a 24. Oh.

(30:57):
My God, I genuinely would have been sick.
I would have been like, hey, do you take my insurance?
Like, like honestly. I yeah, I'm obsessed with that.
Technically I guess I saw the TVGlow is very suburban horror and
I didn't even I had. Never The one line that still

(31:21):
gets to me from from I saw the TV glow was just like this isn't
the midnight realm it's just thesuburbs.
Like imagine someone telling youyo bro you're not in hell it's
just the suburbs like. Just the suburbs, but you're
like. No, that's worse.
That's worse. Please.
No worse than the suburbs. Oh my God.

(31:46):
Makes me makes me sick to my stomach.
Now I have one more question before we like truly truly get
into the depths of this book. What is one of your favorite
Lovecraftian or Eldritch horrors?
That can be a book or a movie orATV show.

(32:09):
OK. Favorite Lovecraftian eldritch
horrors? That's, that's definitely a
tough one 'cause I if I don't even, I don't know if I can even
think of one that I've ever seenoff the top.
Can you? Can you?
Name a movie like just name any.Yeah.
So you have Wicker man, you haveAnnihilation, you have.

(32:33):
I wanna say technically the faculty would be Lovecraftian
thinking of others. I was just looking at a list
today, which is why I. Was looking that's so.
Fast hold on. It's very like, it's like sci-fi

(32:57):
but more grounded, like it's notalways in space.
I think from that list, the onlyone I've actually seen but like
I I definitely already vibe withis annihilation because I come
from a biology background like Iwas pre Med and everything.
And I'm I'm still very much intoscience in general.

(33:19):
I've always thought about like, oh even what's what's it called?
What's that one animation? Scavengers Ryan.
Because that's still that. Feels very much in line with
annihilation because annihilation is like all of your
biology is being like mashed up with like other biology like
that. That's always been such a

(33:40):
fascinating case for me because every time I think about
evolution and, like, how not just human beings, but like,
this entire Earth has been formed over time, I'm like, this
is an incredible stroke of luck because of even one thing
shifted slightly to the left, somany things would have been
wildly different. So many things could have been

(34:01):
wildly different. So when I think of, like,
Lacrafshan or Eldridge horrors, I think of it as potential.
Like, it is the potential for something deeply strange,
deeply, you know, unsettling, just something that you had
never considered because you've always just taken granted for
what already is. So I try.

(34:24):
Yeah. And.
It's also it's also a lot of just like of like the
unexplainable too, like I have no idea how that could happen,
but I see it happening in front of me and I don't care to think
about how it's happening either.Another one.

(34:44):
Another example would be the thing.
I'm just seeing it now the Thingby John Carpenter.
That's very love crafty and I have challenged myself to
consume Lovecraftian slash eldritch horror this summer.
It's something that I'm coveringthe last month of this season

(35:05):
because I'm not a big sci-fi horror person like.
I'm not a big sci-fi. Person, and the only time I am
is when it crosses over with horror.
But I haven't seen Annihilation,haven't seen Event Horizon, I
have seen Alien, haven't seen the Thing.
So these. Yeah, no, we're not.

(35:28):
We're working on it. I just realize I, I guess I'm
technically writing a Lovecraftian horror right now.
Sort of. That'll be a conversation for
later. I.
Mean. Yeah, yeah.
No, I'm so interested. Yeah.
Because, I mean, even we came towelcome you.
Is is a suburban Lovecraftian horror novel and cue the

(35:53):
summary. It's about a married lesbian
lesbian invisible. They move into a gated community
that slowly creeps into a pervasive dread akin to the
social horror of Jordan Peele and Lovecraft Country.
This immediately stuck out to mewhen I saw it because I have

(36:16):
lived in gated communities sinceI, I mean, not now, but like my
family still very much resides in a gated community in Florida
of all places. And so I was so ready to get
into the depths of this because I wanted to see, I wanted this
to be a story of revenge. And even if it wasn't anyone in

(36:37):
the story getting revenge, I wanted to see bad things
happening to the HOA because they deserve it.
And as you were saying prior to this in our little sidebar
conversation, this is your adulttransition from YA.
Up until now you had been Aya author, but could you speak to

(37:00):
that market transition and some of the, I mean what motivated
you to transition, but also if there were any major differences
that you notice or any sort of roadblocks?
So when I decided to transition,it wasn't for any other reason
than I had an idea for a story about married lesbians like
that. That was truly it.

(37:21):
Like it was just, I don't usually write stories thinking
about the market and where it could fit into.
I always think of it as like, what's my starting point?
Like what, what is, what would Icall this?
And if it's like, OK, this is like, you know, a couple of 20
year olds, then I guess it's an adult horror.
I like, I, I guess that's where it's gonna go, 'cause I, I don't
like, I don't like writing to the market, if I'm being honest.

(37:43):
Like it's just, it's not as interesting to me.
It's not as fun to me. Sometimes I just want to write
what I'm inspired by. And at the present moment, it
was just I want to write about an HOA and, you know, like, I
want this to be about like a married lesbian couple and like,
they're, they're different, I guess, like the different issues

(38:03):
that come up for each of them and like how they navigate it.
Like that was something that I, I wanted to like, just get it
dig into. Yeah.
I think that I hope that answersthe question of the IT was.
It was just me having the idea and deciding to write it.
No, absolutely. And what did you, I don't know,

(38:24):
going into it, were you anticipating it being completely
different from YA from like working with a different with
like an adult imprint? Or were there like did you have
a feeling that there was more range in your writing 'cause I
mean with writing yai think there is like a few things where
you have to be mindful of for age reasons and maturity.

(38:47):
And such, I think one of the biggest difference that I had
like from YA to to adult was definitely like point of view.
I guess like I've when I write YA, it's always like first
person. It's always first person.
I'm trying to get you into the head of a teenager when it's

(39:07):
adults. I don't need you to get into the
head of an adult because every adult is going to be so
remarkably different from each other because they've already
like they've, they've already gone through their, you know,
their formative years. They are, they are now fully
formed. They are now fully formed
people. And like, you don't have to
really understand them to know that this is exactly what a
human being would move like in this world.

(39:31):
So when I wrote this book, it was definitely going to be with
the understanding like, yeah, this is going to be third
person. This is going to be third person
because I'm going to want peopleto sort of like watch this
happen from outside while still trying to kind of dissect how
the characters are feeling through their actions or like,
through like the the little bit of thoughts that I give you.

(39:51):
Oh, that's so interesting because I, I've never, I don't
think the perspective point thatyou made has never really been
presented that way. But it also is such a great
point. Because I do think I've recently
had issues with the way that teenagers are written in modern
horror movies because I just don't think like they're

(40:15):
becoming such archetypes or caricatures of a generation that
seems to not be understood 100%.And I've watched Until Dawn and
this is that's like. The perfect I don't need to
watch it. Oh, really?
Listen, you don't have to you can wait for it to come on

(40:37):
streaming if you really wanted to.
The the effects were fantastic, so many practical effects.
But when it came to the teenagers of the story, there's
there is very much that misconnection.
And I really do, I think, preferconsuming consuming stories

(40:58):
revolving a younger protagonist when it is through books because
you it's much easier to empathize with them and they
feel even more accurately represented.
Also, even when most of the times the people who are writing
the books are not teenagers themselves.
Like they're just very attuned to current teenagers and attuned

(41:21):
to their teenage self. And like, The thing is,
teenagers aren't and they're, they're not that hard to
understand if you remember what it's like to be a teenager.
Like, I remember being incredibly anxious all the time.
Like, not, not in a like, oh, peer pressure sort of way.
I need to fit in. But it was just like this vague,

(41:42):
like disturbance within me that I was just like, something's
wrong, but something's always wrong.
So I'm just gonna like, try to ignore it aggressively.
And then, you know, it inevitably becomes a mental
disorder that you now have to grapple with in your adulthood.
But like it's it's. That's just life.
That's just life. No.

(42:02):
Yeah. And having a a why a story
including that anxiety, but alsohaving like a sapphic
perspective on to it. I think it, it makes the story,
it gives it more layers because I mean, yeah, a white man could
write a story about a teenage boy having a normal anxiety of a
teenager, but he's not anxious because he's because he's a

(42:26):
lesbian. No, I'm anxious because I'm a
lesbian and I'm a teenager. Double homicide.
Double. Homicide.
So, so this is a, like we were saying, a love, crafty and
eldritch horror, but it's also suburban horror, which is our
main focus this month. So in your words, how would you

(42:48):
define suburban horror and also what made it appealing to you as
a writer? So for me.
Suburban horror is almost synonymous with daylight horror
in that the, the, the horror is kind of like right up front.
It's right in front of you. It's like it's not really hiding
all that much. However, you are already used to

(43:11):
it. You've already, you know, you've
already grown up with the horror, you've already like,
known what it's like to have it as a neighbor.
You're just like, OK, that's just kind of how it always is.
And so the suburban horror is supposed to sort of like tease
out exactly why it is the horrorthat you should be fearing this
entire time. So when I, when I first like

(43:33):
started like writing this, the reason I even like came to do
the idea of a suburban horror ina gated community was because of
like the one experience I had like going with my to my
friend's Thanksgiving dinner when I was a grad student
because I was just living in like, you know, an OK apartment

(43:55):
in like Cleveland, OH at the time.
So I assumed that's what all allof us grad students were doing
that I thought we were all just kind of like in an OK ish
apartment somewhere in Cleveland, OH.
Like that's what. I thought was happening, but
when my friend drove me very faroff, like far from Cleveland
that I was comfortable with and then we're.
Scared. Yeah, it was just like, oh, I'm

(44:17):
getting kidnapped. That's cool.
I guess this is what's happening.
And then like we get to a gate and we stop at the gate and I'm
just like, what are we? Are we crossing the border?
What is happening? Like what?
Why is there a gate all of a sudden?
And she's like, oh, no, this is just like where I live.
And so she like, hands her her ID to the security guard and
like he looks it over, he hands it back.

(44:38):
And then we like drive through and I'm like, are you?
Like a Princess. Like why do you have a?
Why? Do you You need a gate?
And she's like, no, it's a gatedcommunity.
Like a lot of us like just live here.
And then like we're, we're driving through the area and I'm
like, all of these houses look exactly the same.
How do you even know where you're going?
Like what is how, how do you know?

(44:59):
And she's. Like, yeah, I just, you know,
I've. I've always lived here.
This is just, you know, that's new for me.
And from that moment on in my head, I was just like, this is
an insane place to live, but you're just used to this.
Like, this is just a Tuesday to you.
And then like, later on, becauseI'm, I'm such a huge nerd for
like, just really fun web series.

(45:19):
There's this one web series called Gayle that is filmed by
Chris Fleming. Like, he's a very good.
Yeah, he's a very good comedian.He made this entire web series
where he's just pretending to belike this suburban housewife.
Like he's sort of like the whiteTyler Perry if.
I'm gonna be hot. It's like.

(45:40):
Dragon's OK, it is. OK, no, but it's he, he does it
so. Fun and in one episode like
they're the characters are like walking through this new
development of like their littlecommunity and they're talking
about how all the houses look the same and they're like, how
do you know? Which one is yours?
Do you just go knocking door to door until your husband opens?
So it's like it was played as a joke in that instance.

(46:02):
But I was like, I was feeling the horror in that situation of
being like, in order to know where you're going, you have to
like confront the thing in frontof you first.
You have to like knock door to door until your husband.
But like, that's scary. That's fucking scary.
And then like, you know, thinking back to that moment of
like driving through these gates, I'm just like, I'm

(46:22):
getting kidnapped for sure. I don't know what's happening.
I don't know. How do people live like this?
So suburban horror always feels like something that.
People are just used to, they'rejust used to, they don't sense
the danger they because it's, it's normal to them.
And I wanted to get into like, the idea of like, why exactly do
people always feel safe here? Because I think the one, the one

(46:44):
time, the worst things only happen when you feel 100% safe.
Oh, yeah. Like, that's so it feels like a
trap. It feels like a Venus flytrap to
be like, Oh yeah, I'm safe now. Let me lower my guard and not
lock my door. Serial killer.
Now what? Like, I it's insane to me.
Nope, Nope, Nope. And see, the thing about living

(47:05):
in a gated community is they're not even 100% say if you got all
these white people sitting in this gated community thinking
they're safe, and yet somebody could just walk through that
side door because you got 2 gates, but then you have a side
door for pedestrians that's not locked.
So, and it's, it's the, it's kind of like what you were

(47:28):
saying where it's like that there's a slow creeping where
the danger is right in front of you.
But also it's not even the most dangerous thing there is either
because that's actually lurking so much deeper.
And that is the HOA, the HOA andof course the, the racist white

(47:48):
people and, and whatnot. But that's the thing about
suburban horror is I feel like there is this slow confrontation
of the issues at home base essentially where it's like this
is in your your own backyard. We're not going to space.
We're not going across the seas to somewhere where you would

(48:09):
perceive it as a third world country just because they don't
have Starbucks and Target like this.
This is right in front of you athome.
And while that can mean literally your take on in like a
metaphorical sense by introducing this
intersectionality amongst the LGBTQIA plus community, there's

(48:33):
a lot of community in this conversation.
I'm like, yeah, times. Am I saying it?
Oh, my God. ANYWAYS, yeah.
When you introduce intersectionality of like being
of color and of being queer, andthen you come into this gated
community and you think that youfound a sense of comfort and
safety because Oh my God, hey, hey, I see you.

(48:55):
We see each other because we arethe same.
And yet, no, Considering how suburban horror operates, how
did you approach the dynamics between other queer people in
Mainland's Grove, which is the gated community, and Soul, our
main character? I think it was.
Partly like my own experience inthat when I went to so there's a

(49:19):
there's an entire subplot or at least like an explanation of why
soul is like so ancients and stuff.
And it's essentially she was like sort of hate crimes.
Not sort of she definitely was hate crimes by her own mother
because she was found out to be going to this LGBTQ club at our
college, which is the same name as the one I went to at my
college. It was called Refuge.

(49:40):
And I remember being at Refuge and like I was one of like very
few queer people of color in there, right?
Everyone else was like white, like the majority of these guys
were white. And it felt strange because the
college I went to was definitelylike not entirely friendly to
queer people. Like it was, it was a Christian

(50:00):
college. So we were already like this,
like, you know, little enclave of like rebels or whatever the
fuck, Like we were just trying to live our lives and go to
class or whatever. But then within that little
enclave, it was me, the one black person with like the other
two black people or like queer people of color.
Like it was it was like within its own like like dangers on I

(50:20):
guess. And I remember there was this
one time in refuge when I was just kind of minding my own
business. I was just like talking to
someone. Everyone was like eating snacks
and like talking. And all I hear is Oh my God, I'm
so sorry. I just have to and.
Suddenly there's a hand in my hair and I'm like, whoa now I
thought this was a safe space. No, because when you said I'm

(50:44):
sorry, I just have to, either something's about to come out of
your mouth or you're about to put your hand somewhere they
should not be like. Every time.
It's every fucking time. And like, that's what happened.
And I was just like, in my mind I was just like, this is
supposed to be a safe space for queer people, but I'm not even
safe as a black person. Like, like, what are you doing?
What are you? What is happening here?
So I, when I was writing this, Iwas just like, yeah, there's

(51:07):
definitely like when it comes tolike queer people versus
straight people, queer people always think like, Oh yeah,
we're, we'll always have each other's back 'cause we're queer.
However, I'm still black and youare still white, my friend.
Like we, you, you have some shitto work out, to work through.
So it was always like with that in mind of being like, yeah, we

(51:27):
may have some things in common, keywords.
Some, like you, don't get to pretend like that just negates
all history between us. And then on another level, it
was I this, this is actually kind of funny to me.
I went to my roommate and my roommate is this, she's a
lesbian trans woman, right? I went up to her and she's also

(51:47):
white. So I went up to her.
I was like, hey, I don't leave the house enough to experience.
This how do people. Micro aggress you for being
lesbian like that was. How I came up to her, I was
like, where's the micro aggressions you face as a as a
white lesbian, I don't get that far.
I get the black microaggressions.
Right, right. That I would pick up on the
lesbian, actually. Yeah, so like she gave me like a

(52:08):
lot of like, you know, good examples to pick out from.
Like I, I think I did write thisone in the book, like when
straight people don't understandlike why you don't change your
last name after getting married.Like it's, it's you know, that
that's definitely like much moreof a straight people thing than
like anything else. And so like I, I did use that
for my book or like she, she gave, there's this one example I

(52:29):
wish I had put in the book, but it's basically like usually
older. White women were like, Oh yeah,
I had a girlfriend in college and you're like girlfriend, like
girl. And then it's never, it's always
just a straight friend. Like stop saying girlfriend.
I'm tired of this shit. No, yeah, actually, please stop
because I know some of y'all were actually in the closet and

(52:50):
fucking around with you actually.
Though and those. Like, Oh yeah, we had a phase.
No, it wasn't girly. You were in the closet.
You need to see that TV go one more time.
Like it, it was, it was definitely an interesting mix of
like my experience of being likemicro aggressed versus like,
what is it like that the white gays are experiencing?

(53:12):
Like what is what is the homophobia they expect?
Because I don't get that far. I don't get, I don't get far
enough. To get the.
Homophobia. I get the racism first and
foremost like this. It's crazy.
No, yeah, the intersectionality that I, I won't even say queer
people because I've recently adopted the ideology that
everyone can be gay, but not everyone can be queer because

(53:35):
also being queer is such a choice.
And I think in that choice, it is recognizing your own racism
as like a white person or your own prejudices and bigotry.
Because just because you are in the LGBTQ community does not
mean you're free of of being a bigot.
Like, there are so many other ways now.

(53:59):
Yeah. This idea of community talking
about it again with sinners out right now, it's hard to ignore a
major theme in the book and of that movie, too fresh on my
mind. But there's the assimilation of
it all. And while it tells the tale of
racism and identity, people of our own community can, for the

(54:20):
lack of a better term, join the dark side.
So why do you think it's important to represent this in
narratives such as yours and thegreat Ryan Coogler?
I think it's. It's definitely meant to kind of
shine a light on an experience that does not frequently get
talked about that like among people like me, like we peep it

(54:41):
all the time. We we know it, we feel it like
it's something that we always see, but it's never on the
screen. Like it's never something that
is talked about and it always feels like it's sort of like to
brush it under the carpet, you know, like, oh, like if, if we
don't talk about it, then it doesn't exist.
You know, like we as long as is,if we, if we keep it within the
family, if we say nothing about it, it's fine.

(55:03):
And it's like, no, actually, I want to air out all our dirty
laundry. Like if I had to deal with the
trauma, we're all gonna be dealing with the trauma.
Like I. Will be the biggest problem in
this bitch right now so it's just it's just a way of like
like one actually like putting something out in conversation
but. In doing so, being acknowledged,

(55:26):
like having it be acknowledged is sort of healing because then
it's just like, so, so you see the bullshit, like now that I'm
talking about it, you can see how this was fucked up.
And like that's, that's really what we need more of.
Absolutely. And I think too like it's it's
healing, but also justifying in the sense that you can point to

(55:50):
something and it be a clear depiction of your own
experience. And I think because so many
people struggle with self reflection, sometimes it's
easier to self reflect after you've seen something
perpetuated outside of yourself.And I think that that's
something that both this book and Ryan Coogler are like the

(56:14):
characters within and those inter community issues, they're
really exposed. And I think such great
conversations can be had around them.
And like, I think, I mean, everybody wants to spell the
word community. Community.
Remic was talking about fellowship and love, fellowship
and love. But you can't have fellowship

(56:36):
and love if if you're doing everything against your own
community. First of all, the fact that he
would have tried to have me in fellowship and love with that
clan. The clan absolutely not get that
shit up out of here. I don't like, I don't care that
we're all part of the same hive mind and they're suddenly sorry.
No, they need to be dead in the ground.

(56:57):
They need to be in hell expeditiously.
Like don't. Absolutely.
Oh my gosh, no. And that's, I mean, that's,
that's the same thing of like within any sort of community
having, I think not being able to understand someone's anger
with, with the actions of someone else with that like you

(57:18):
call community and like having, holding that accountability for
each other too, being like you, you're wrong and you should be
OK with being wrong actually. Yeah, like, like now that I
think about it in a, in a sort of way, Remic was definitely
kind of like brushing over like the racism that was inherent and

(57:41):
like just he's just like, oh, I'll just add everyone to the
hive mind and no one will ever be racist.
I'm like, that's not how this works, Super Chief.
Like, and it's not we can't, we can't just brush over the shit.
No, but also that's how they operated in mainland's growth
and I'll never forget, forgive them for.
That, yeah, the way they operated.
Sometimes I look back on the book and I'm just like, damn, I

(58:03):
really wrote it like this. That's crazy.
That's. Oh.
You wrote it like that and you. Ate it, thank you.
Waited up one question that I didn't write down on here but I
did want to ask, mainly because I could not remember her name.
I know it starts with. AC Corin.
But yes, yeah, the there's very obvious significance of having

(58:30):
such a narrative with a racial sort of established on like a
racial background of like this is our character.
This is someone who's on our side, on the good side.
They are not white, versus here is this entire landscape of
white people with 1/2. 3 black people.

(58:53):
And her also being an older black woman too.
And she plays such a significantrole in the story as not even
she. May not even be there, but she's
there. And why was she initially as big
of a character as she came to be, or did you end up extending

(59:17):
her presence in the story? I think she was always as big as
she was like meant she was always there.
There were like some a few things that I've added
throughout, you know, the revisions primarily.
Well, OK, I can't say that because that's a spoiler.
There's there's a, there's a scene that happens after a
significant moment with that character and the main character

(59:41):
Soul goes and notes who is directly in the room and she's
immediately like, I need to havemore black friends.
That one was something that I wrote in after, like after
reading it a few times. And also I, I remember this is
because of one of my like, This is why it's important to have

(01:00:01):
black friends because they won'tlike actually point this shit
out to you. I would, I would be talking to
one of my friends, Ari, and like, we'll talk about like
whatever, like novel we're reading or whatever.
And she was just like, I'm just really annoyed that, like, every
time I like, read a novel with like, a black character, they
never have any black friends. And I was just like, fuck, I did
that too. I need, I need to fix that

(01:00:22):
'cause like, I didn't realize it.
I super didn't. And I was just like, shit, OK,
at least let me make it funny. Like at least let me put a nod
to it. Like I will.
I will get better at this, I swear.
But like, yeah. So then that was where like, the
character's like, damn, I need more black friends.
I was like, yeah, you do. You do need more black friends.
I should have given you more black friends.
Sorry. Soul now.

(01:00:47):
OK, well you started talking about how you're currently
working on something involving eldritch horror, Lovecraftian
horror. So has this particular story
been itching your brain? Is this?
Will we be seeing this anytime soon?
It's still currently being written, so I don't think we'll
see it anytime soon. I, I told my agent I'd have I'd,

(01:01:11):
you know, give her a draft of itlike probably by like June,
probably mid June. The way that I'm, I'm kind of
slowly working through it, but it is something that I've been
like. Kind of I've.
Been reworking it over and over again because when I had when I
had the idea the first time, it was supposed to be an adult
horror that was something akin to interview with the vampire.

(01:01:36):
But like make it Faye related. Like like in in and in the sense
that there is there's a lot of toxic romance, like very toxic
romance happening or whatever. So it was originally gonna be
that and then, like after talking, you know, with my agent
and stuff about some elements, she like kind of like brought
the idea of like how do like whydon't you make this into like

(01:01:58):
young adult? And I'm just like, I can't I'm
not writing a toxic romance for teens like they already they.
Already are doing some weird shit over there.
I can't. Like I'm not exposing them to
that. They're too young.
Like they can get into this shitwhen they're older.
And then I like kind of rethought about like, OK, how do
the themes work better if it wasfor teens versus like, you know,
like what? Why did it need to?

(01:02:19):
Be a dolt horror in the 1st place.
And the only reason was because of you know, I wanted a toxic
romance. But if it's going to be yai need
to remove the toxic romance and I need to build something better
than a toxic like something likebetter narratively, something
better like theme wise. And I did eventually find it and
so now I'm like really, really into it.

(01:02:41):
It's eldritch horror, sort of, in that I've made the fate very
unsettling 'cause I. Know, I, I know in my heart of
hearts there those of us who areupset or not upset, maybe
annoyed with, you know, like the, the treatment the vampires
get in that like, oh, they're sosexy, they're so hot and like,
you know, whatever. Like it's, it's kind of like

(01:03:02):
kind of 1 dimensional flat Faye,the Faye kind of get a similar
treatment and they're like, oh, they're so sexy.
They're so hot. Like they have a British accent
for some reason. Like it's always some shit.
It's always some shit, right? And I've decided actually, I'm
gonna make them terrifying. And not only am I gonna make
them terrifying, but I I think people are gonna be too afraid

(01:03:23):
to ride the elevator once I'm done with this book.
So, yeah. So it's it's it's gonna be I I
say that only sort of as a joke because someone came up to me
and said that after they finished reading my first book,
burned down Rise up. They were too afraid to ride the
subway train and in my. Head I was just like, I was just

(01:03:44):
having fun. I was, I was just goofing.
I was just being a silly Billy like.
But if we if we run it back to February and what you said, you
said I like to write stories andI asked myself what's the most
fucked up thing I could write? I'm still.
OK. I feel like you can't just say

(01:04:04):
I'm just being. I'm just on.
Purpose. You can be silly and want to
cause trauma, that's fine. Oh.
Yeah, no, that's so. I just like, it's, it's just
funny to me. And so, like, now that I'm like
writing the story, I'm like, Oh,no, I'm gonna do to the
elevators what I did to subway trains in New York.

(01:04:27):
And I think if you really need an not an energy boost, but if
you really need a morality boost, an ego boost, you could
think about how the same people probably would have said the
same thing to Jeffrey Riddick after they watch Final
Destination. So not you being not you being

(01:04:49):
of the same mind of such an icon.
I just like honestly, I have a lot of feelings about final
destination as well. Like I just I every year I do
like a movie marathon. Like I just kind of like sit
through all of it and I'm just like, damn, this is truly the
most like because it's the way death works is so unnecessary.

(01:05:09):
Like death is so like, bro, why are you such a diva?
Just kill me a normal way like. Like enough with the theatrics.
OK, I get it. We.
Get it. Like, like, we get it.
We get it. You were a theater kid.
You're a theater kid. Like this is all just reality.
You can't. You've heard of Your First Death
is a theater? Like I cannot wait to see the

(01:05:31):
new one that's coming out though.
Like that one. I'm I, I cannot wait.
I'm. So excited I am.
I'm doing a marathon as of rightnow.
We just finished the third one, so we're moving on to the 4th.
But I do, I absolutely love thatfranchise.
And Jeffrey Riddick being a gay man from Kentucky, a gay black
man from Kentucky. I'm like, wait, because you're

(01:05:53):
kind of the other half of my. I I, I feel that so hard.
I'm just like, you know, what's the most what's the most fucked
up thing that can make happen? Let's make it happen.
It'll be fun. I promise Don't don't think
about it. That's.
What makes horror like that is genuinely what makes horror.
And I think having so many creative minds in the space, the

(01:06:18):
possibilities are, I mean, as we've seen and continue to see,
the possibilities are in. Line for sure.
Absolutely. And with that in mind, is there
a subgenre unfamiliar to you that you would like to branch
out to? Oh.
OK, a subgenre that I would liketo branch out to.

(01:06:43):
Oh God, this is OK. I sort of want to do romanticy
at least once. I just like, which I know in
order for me to get into to write romanticy, I need to read
more of it. I definitely don't read enough

(01:07:03):
of it to know what the hell is going on.
But I just, there's something about it that I'm just like,
yeah, romance and fantasy and like, you know, it's a, it's a
nice blend. It's a gentle blend.
It feels most of the time. And you know what the romanticy
genre is missing. Queerness I.
That's actually that's where I was going, but I kind of want to

(01:07:25):
see a romanticy with 2T boys. You are not wrong.
That's what it's, yeah. I haven't seen.
It Oh my God, yeah, ABS. I mean well.
Listen, if you write. That down.
If you listen, if you were following my Tik Toks, you would
find out that I'm probably already writing that.

(01:07:47):
Oh. My.
God. OK, OK, two years time.
I'm gonna ask you about it. Again, I just I it started off
as like a fun series of TikTok skits.
I so. I, I got really into like, well,
I've already, I've been in D&D for like years now.
Like I've, I've been playing since like high school.
And so like the skits I do is always the, the D&D merchant,

(01:08:11):
you know, the, the NPC merchant who's just trying to sell shit
to like the adventurers. And it's becomes, it's kind of
like taking on a life of its ownbecause now I'm collaborating
with other like black D&D, like Tik Tokers.
And now like we're crafting an entire like storyline.
And now I'm just like, OK, what if I wrote an entire novel back

(01:08:32):
story about my character? Listen, because that could be
there have been so many things to come from just TikTok series.
Like there's been a musical. There's been actually, there's
been at least two musicals. Right now, it's Anne Frank the
Musical. I have not heard about that one.

(01:08:53):
If you want to hear about it, look it up on TikTok 'cause I
actually genuinely cannot even explain to you what it is.
It's just like the story of AnneFrank to the backdrop of like
dancehall music. I don't know.
That's insane. OK, I have to, I have to look
into that now. I it's.
Insane but things can happen from TikTok.
For sure, for sure. And my very last question for

(01:09:18):
you, what is your favorite line or one of your favorite lines
from We came to welcome you. So I think my favorite one, I
think, OK, it's it's not exactlya line.
I mean, I guess it is sort of a line, but it's like early on in
the book when soul is like now meeting with like she she goes

(01:09:43):
to the the welcoming party or whatever, right.
And they're the, they're these characters that I'm not going to
lie, we're purely inspired by the characters in season 3 of
you in that they are like very preppy, like, you know, like
white ladies. They're just very preppy.
They're, they're always in athletic, athletic wear.

(01:10:05):
Like for some reason I they're never seen exercising, but
they're always in athletic wear,right?
And they ask her because they, they look at how she, she's just
a Butch. She's just dressed Butch, but.
They're like, Oh my God, we loveof the way you look.
It's so farmer core, like, you know, what do you call it?
And she's like, I think it's just called Butch.
Like that's she's just like, I'mnot gonna fuck around with you.

(01:10:25):
I don't even like you all that much to be making jokes like
it's. It's my favorite little tidbit
because it does it. It does like.
Kind of say in words, I'm Butch.Like that's it.
There's no like that's just whatit is.
And yet that's so alien to these, you know, suburban like
white ladies that they're like, oh, we thought it was like

(01:10:46):
Farmer Corps, whatever the fuck TikTok kids are calling it.
And it's like, no, it's Butch. It's it's me being gay and
Butch. That's it.
It's just Butch. Yeah.
No, especially, I mean, after you were sort of discussing the
way that Seoul's butchness has been forgotten or erased amongst

(01:11:07):
the masses, but it being so integral to who who she is and
the story, but also butchers in horror, like don't don't erase
the butchers in horror. Jada Pinkett Smith delivered in
Tales from the Carib. Oh my God, for sure.
Like and and where would we be without her?

(01:11:28):
I like, we definitely like when I think about like Black horror
and like the Renaissance it's being given, I will like part of
me. Just kind of like yearns for
like give me some queer Black people.
Please Ryan Coogler, just give me give me one queen that is
like voguing in the backdrop. Just give me one like that is

(01:11:49):
like my 1 mild complaint. I'm like, I'm I'm at the altar
of my Ryan Coogler like shrine and be like, please give me one
queer Black person. I'm begging you.
I know I was hoping that after the blackening, Dwayne Perkins
would come out of it and give ussomething that all of us gay

(01:12:10):
black horror nerds have been. Oh my God.
And yet he's on the studio with Seth Rogen, which is actually
such a great show. Apple TV.
Check it out. But still, he has a mind and
he's not putting it to. You like where?
Where? Just use your talent.
You have the talent that God hasgiven you.

(01:12:30):
Like please. Yeah.
And then this is where someone out there would say, well maybe
y'all should write the queer stories that you're looking.
For and I fucking will. Like.
Right. I would then say yes, in maybe
30 business days I'll. Get to right right And when I do
it y'all better not let it flop because I swear to God you will

(01:12:53):
not hear the end of me if you let it flop.
No, no, I can't. I can't sit through another
conversation about the box office and the way that people
are talking about those box office numbers.
Like y'all, I and I can't believe when we have such an
original black story in theatersright now, continuously selling

(01:13:14):
out, continuously packed theaters.
They're about to replace it withanother Marvel movie.
If you know what, let me hold mytongue because I I cannot afford
to get into this conversation right now.
That's all of the questions thatI had for you in our
conversation of We came to Welcome you Listeners, the book

(01:13:36):
has been out and surely you knowwhat I'm talking about because
I've talked about it before on the podcast, but in whatever
reason you don't remember, you have short term memory loss or
you just weren't here for that conversation, make sure you get
it. We came to welcome you.
It came out last fall. Such a great fall cover, like
it's such a fall book. I love it.

(01:13:58):
Vincent, where can my listeners find you after this little
conversation? You can find me on Instagram,
TikTok evidently and blue sky. If you find my my Twitter just
know I'm not using it. So it's you're following nobody
at that point. It's a ghost.
Town, yeah. It is a ghost town.

(01:14:18):
No, Yeah, I actually would say follow their TikTok so that you
can get a sneak peek at this romanticy that we were just
talking about. And I don't know, maybe y'all
can pitch in for ideas and it can be a can be a collective
effort of AT boy romanticy. Hi, Oh my God I would love that.

(01:14:40):
No obsess. OK, well, thank you, Vincent for
joining me on this episode. This episode is coming out in
June. Also the way that I've
structured everything. So what a happy pride it is and
I hope to have you back sometimesoon.
Maybe we can talk about I saw the TV glow because I haven't

(01:15:00):
talked about that on the on the.Podcast.
I have so many feelings about it, not just like as a queer
film, but like a queer film thatcenters a black trans girl, you
know, like it's just I, I have so many feelings about it just
from that perspective. Absolutely, and also the.
Like the? Subject matter of like the the

(01:15:21):
the nostalgia of it is. So.
Gripping like I've never, I don't think nostalgia has ever
been so visceral for me before until that movie.
So yeah, maybe we can get something in the works.
And listeners, thank you so muchfor tuning into this episode.
Next month is Eldritch horror, Lovecraftian horror, so make

(01:15:46):
sure you study up and come back here if you want to, I don't
know, learn some more. But until then, thank you so
much and I hope to catch you next episode.
Bye. Black Cinema.
Sister Soldier. Listen, I read my Entertainment
Weekly, OK? I know my shit.