Domain Sales Strategies for Fortune 100 Companies - Chuck Aikens: Maximizing AI Benefits | Saw.com - Uncomfortable with Jeffrey Gabriel

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today on the uncomfortable podcast, we have
Chuck Isaac Akin, founder ofTimu and previous owner of
Volume 9 Media.
He shares his story how he useda little known strategy called
SEO to propel himself to newheights at a major bank to
becoming a digital marketerknown for his work with Fortune
100 corporations, includingVolkswagen, dish Network and
others here, about my failedattempt to sell hybridcom to

(00:22):
Volkswagen many years ago, andChuck will share his insights as
to how he would have engagedVolkswagen when proposing a
domain acquisition, includingtheir decision-making process,
and who you should be talking toshould it be the marketing team
, the agency of record or theweb agency and the typical
timeline for such transactions.

(00:43):
Additionally, we explore Chuck'sperspectives on Google search
algorithms, the role of AI andcontent creation, and the
irreplaceable value of humaninput in generating articles.
At the end of the episode, wego down the rabbit hole a little
bit, while Chuck shares somevery interesting facts about AI
in general and how he helps hisclients benefit from it.
So let's get it, dude.

(01:04):
Welcome to the show, chuck.
It's nice to have you here, youknow.
I think the best thing we cando is get started with you
telling us a little bit aboutyour background, your experience

(01:25):
and how you got into digitalmarketing.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well, I stumbled into digital marketing and thanks
for having me so, as when I wascoming out of college I went to
work for a mortgage company andthey basically threw the phone
book at me and said go, generateleads and tried whatever
newspaper mailers, phone calls,all those kind of things.
But I stumbled into theinternet and saw a little bit of

(01:52):
success from it, generatingleads, and I, you know I was
hooked.
I was spending all my time inBarnes and Noble and the IELTS,
reading the books that Icouldn't afford and teaching
myself all about internetmarketing and websites and
digital, I mean and this waseven before Google came along.
So I've been doing this quite awhile.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
So when you first got your job in mortgages, you
really didn't even start as aloan officer.
You were just kind of like thelead gen guy or one of the lead
gen people.
Is that is that right?
Well, I did.
I did start as a loan officer,you know.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
And then I turned in the lead gen guy, you know, and
I was generating even more leadsthan I could handle.
So I started selling them to myfriends, you know, because they
were like, what are you doingOver there?
That's pretty cool.
And I was like, well, I gotsome extra and they'd give me
money.
And you know, I was generatingenough leads to feed myself, and

(02:44):
you know other people in thebusiness.
I mean it even caught theattention of the president of
the company, so much that hecalled me one day and, out of
the blue, I mean, you know, hereI am a little loan officer in
Denver, colorado, and you know,somewhere in California the
president, ceo, the, calls youand says, hey, great job, you're

(03:05):
killing it.
We don't, we don't understandthe Internet, so please stop.
And that was an interesting daybecause you know it, really it
it's not what I thought wouldhappen.
When you, when you start towork for a company and you
create success, I didn't expectto get told to stop.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
You would think that they would at least call you to
their headquarters and kind ofinterrogate you and have you sit
with the marketing team andfigure out what you're really up
to and what you could do tochange it to, to make it
something they're happy with andthat everyone could benefit
from.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Right, yeah, you would think so.
I think that that was so early,you know it's.
You know, in today's world, Imean, a lot of big companies are
.
They're just, they're afraid ofAI and they're banning it.
So, I mean, that was theInternet.
At the time, they didn't knowwhat to do with it.
That's what happened whensocial media showed up.
Nobody, nobody reallyunderstood.
Well, what do we do withFacebook?
What do we do with IG?

(03:59):
You know, what are these sillylittle things that are showing
up on people's phones?
So anytime a new, new platforms, new technology shows up, it it
seems to be the response.
You know, people are fearful.
Until they write it, theyunderstand it.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
What do you think they dislike the most about what
you're doing?

Speaker 2 (04:18):
So, now that I'm a I'm a marketer of 20 plus years,
I mean they, they, I didn'tknow what I was doing from a
from a brand compliancestandpoint, what I should say
and not say, the Internet wassomewhat I mean not unregulated,
that's the wrong word, but Imean it was.
It was the Wild, Wild West.
So you know, I mean people werethrowing crap up on my space

(04:39):
and you know, I mean all kindsof things were going on.
So I it's not that I was nevermad at them, it just it just
surprised me because, yeah, Ithought that I thought it would
get me a real you know, not thata loan officer is in a real job
, but it's 100% commission.
I thought it would get me areal job, you know, or, yeah,
they would call me in and theywould want me to work with them
to understand it.
But no, I mean anymore, you know, I mean, and even today I mean,

(05:02):
that a big brand is going tojust just stop until we can
figure it out.
So, yeah, so I mean I got it.
So, and that's part of my, youknow my journey throughout the
years, you know it's reallyabout really understanding what
is going on at a macro level soyou can succeed at a micro level
with whatever your you knowyour enterprise or

(05:25):
entrepreneurial, you know spiritis leading you towards.
You know you kind of got tounderstand and that was that was
one lesson I learned is thatyou know big, big brands don't
act rationally.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
I always feel, like some of the decisions they make,
that if you're in the boardroomor there is somebody that could
probably explain from theirpoint of view why they made that
decision.
It's kind of like when someonesays, my God, another bonehead
decision by the United Statesgovernment.
I'm like well, you probablydon't know the whole story.
You know, and you probablydon't know the whole situation
they've got ourselves in, but Iprobably agree with the

(05:58):
information we got that, yeah,it's pretty bad.
Right, it's a pretty baddecision.
So, when you got that call thatyou knew it was probably time to
move on right, because onceyour leads dried up, then you're
obviously your sales would dryup and the opportunity wasn't as
good as it used to be, soyou're probably at a crossroads.
So what did?
What did you do?

Speaker 2 (06:20):
We know.
I remember exactly what I did.
I lived in a little two bedroomapartment, you know, with my
girlfriend in one bedroom was.
You know where we slept?
You know it was my office andthere's a whiteboard in there.
And you know I'm barely out ofcollege, I don't have a lot of
expenses.
And I wrote the number down andit was something like 3000 a
month and I said I've got 90days, I'm going to hang my

(06:46):
shingle and I'm going to see ifI can turn these leads that I'm
generating from my friends intoa viable business.
And I have the 90 days to do it.
I need to make $3,000 a month.
I sit there at the countertopand I came up with the idea of
mortgage 101.com, which was aneducational portal to teach
people how to, how to, how to goabout their mortgage.
And the thing that I did Ilearned cold fusion.

(07:09):
Everybody knows what that isWow, but it's a programming
language that you know wasbefore, as all kinds of things
that came along after it, and Ilearned how to program mortgage
calculators.
I built mortgage calculators,built 10 of them, and then I
went out to all the real estatewebsites on the internet and I
said link to me because I have areally cool mortgage calculator
and I private labeled to theirlooking field, built a little

(07:30):
system.
So I had this little conceptthat I had with mortgage 101
where I put mortgage calculatorson about 40,000 realtor
websites.
Wow.
Now remember, google wasn'taround yet and I remember the
day that Google, the first timeI heard about Google I was like
this is cool.
And at the time there wereInfoSeq, altavista, I mean Yahoo

(07:51):
, I mean there were so manysearch engines.
There were, there were 20search engines.
And I even remember like Ibought the InfoSeq algorithm
because you could run it at yourcompany and reverse engineered
the program, and they did so.
Google came along and changedthe game.
But I remember the first day Iwent to Google and I typed in
the word mortgage and my websitecame up number one.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
You must have been proud.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
I didn't even understand what was about to
happen, because all I had did isI had, I had built something of
value which was a principal andinterest calculator, or a
payoff calculator, or a buyverse, rent that someone would
need right to think about thebest mortgage choice, you know,
an arm verse fix, you know.
And then I got everyone to linkto it.
I had no idea that Google wasgoing to build their entire

(08:35):
algorithm off page rank andinbound links.
So, yeah, when that came alongas Google game steam, that, that
website, you know I sold it waytoo early.
You know it was the first, itwas my, it was the first thing
that I ever sold that, you know,in the business world Sold it
for about a half million dollarsand there were some other
people that were involved in it.

(08:55):
And I am not independentlywealthy by any means.
I'm not here like probablyeveryone listed.
I'm, you know I'm, I'm scrappyand getting by today.
Well, it's all you know.
It's sold later for six million.
But I was on the right path, soregistered domain name, built
out the content, built a bunchof links and Google rewarded it.
I got paid, you know, buteventually I turned into

(09:17):
something of even more valuedown the road.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Where did that fall in with lending tree?
Lending tree was always a goodplace for me to get leads when I
sold loans.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, you know we were a competitor with learning
tree way back when and thecompany I sold it with did make
it to NASDAQ during the dot comrun and you know it was a big
player.
So lending tree, you know, wasthe you know, was the gorilla in
the room with a with a burnrate that we hoped Would be
shorter than ours.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
But the leads weren't cheap.
And then there was bank rate aswell, though you see a lot of
leads from, and then with thesame thing.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
we had the rates tables and the mortgage
calculators, but what we hadthat they didn't for a long
period well, for about 10 yearswas the number one ranking on
Google.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
So let me write that down.
So is that when you ended uplaunching volume nine?

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, after I sold mortgage 101 and got out of the
mortgage industry, I wanted tonot be so vertically integrated.
There were a lot of differentthings we did in the mortgage
space.
We started in the SEO space,built websites, eventually
brought in social media, but atthe heart of it was always as
never a media company or an adcompany.
I always built branded contentto bring the audience in

(10:27):
organically.
Now it's not free traffic.
You still have to have astrategy and you buy assets and
you build assets.
But the non-paid channel iswhat I've always focused on.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Got it?
And why do you feel that thenon-paid channel is better than
the paid channel?

Speaker 2 (10:46):
I don't know if it's.
I don't think that it's betteror worse.
When I talk to somebody, thefirst thing I try to figure out
is are you thinking more like anadvertiser, where you're going
to buy the traffic there'snothing wrong with that, it's
just a different game or are yougoing to be a publisher?
Are you going to create contentthat your audience wants and
they're going to come consumethat, and then your compensation
is going to be leads or sales,and that's how you're going to

(11:11):
get return on investment for thecontent that you make.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Okay, and then as a small business owner, I mean
that doesn't have a super largebudget.
What is someone like mesupposed to do when we're
worried about meta tags andtitles and keywords and linking
to other articles on your ownsite and optimizing, putting the
right keywords in the article,when you're trying to do the
right thing and paying otherwriters to write for you, trying

(11:38):
to think of the right titles?
What would be your advice tosomeone like me who's only been
in business for four years anddoesn't have a huge budget spent
on SEO?

Speaker 2 (11:49):
Well, the first thing I'll do is I'd say let's keep
this simple, and when I'mworking with somebody, the way
you get simplicity is you saywho is my target audience, what
do they care about, what is mybrand and what do I do?
The VIN diagram, where itoverlays between what your
audience cares about and whatyou do, is actually very small,

(12:12):
and in that little bit ofoverlay there's usually a topic
that you can lean into or sometype of content.
It's usually singular,sometimes it can be a couple,
and that's how you succeed in.
What I'm talking about is thatyou figure out your voice and

(12:32):
what you want to cover and youbecome an authority in something
very, very specific.
So when I had my agency for 15years, one of the things that we
saw success with is we alwaystalked about the algorithm
updates.
Now, I talked about a lot ofstuff, but the algorithm updates
was something that I caredabout because I'm kind of a
technologist, I'm a geek, so Iwould write about it and it

(12:55):
would be long and informativeand people would like it and
Google kind of caught on to that.
So we always ranked really highevery time there was an
algorithm update and I talkedabout it, everything else we
talked about.
It never worked.
It didn't engage people, itwasn't best content, it wasn't
additive, it already beencovered by somebody else.
There was search volume, but itwasn't my true voice.

(13:15):
But in that space of justalgorithm and algorithm updates,
in that space, that's what Iwould kind of tell somebody.
Even if you were doing Googleads I mean, let's say you're
spending a thousand or even$5,000 a month, how many
keywords can you bid on?
How many campaigns can you run?
How many different landingpages and offers are you going
to test?
You got to keep that simple.
If you're running a one, five,even $10,000 a month campaign,

(13:39):
same thing on the organic side.
Keep it simple.
Figure out your voice, figureout your content theme and even
if you take it into LinkedIn orIG, those algorithms also reward
you for being an expert, havingexperience.
I'm using the EAT model fromGoogle authority and trust on a
particular topic.
You can stand out from all thenoise out there.

(14:00):
That's online.
But what most people do is theystart chasing you know this
keyword and that keyword andthis idea and that idea, instead
of saying, no, I'm going tobecome an expert or I care about
this one thing, and that'susually you can.
Once you have one thingestablished, you can
tangentially move to otherkeyword clusters and topics and

(14:22):
thematical things.
But all these machines out hererunning around between all the
algorithms and the AI, and youknow how does Google rank this?
I mean they want to find thebest content by the most
experience and authoritativepeople and you don't just
stumble into that with a blogpost or two.
You've really got to own aspace and get out there and make

(14:44):
yourself not only an expert butto be seen as an expert.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
So when you're talking about that, I find that
in my own experience with Googlelately I'm finding myself using
chat GVT more than Google, andthat's because, I'd say, in the
last few years, when I searchfor not just, I mean if I search
for domain broker, I see, youknow, different companies come
up that offer domain brokerageor the ads, and then at the top

(15:10):
I'll see someone like Neil Patelwho does like top five brokers,
and then below that is anotherbrokerage and maybe a different
kind of service provider orsomething like that, and I feel
like the results aren't as goodas they used to be in and out as
trustworthy as they were before, whereas if I go to chat GVT
and I just say, hey, I'm lookingfor domain broker, he might
suggest like three in a verybasic you know setting and I can

(15:34):
say, oh well, I want one thatspecializes in this or does that
or whatever, and then it'llhelp me narrow it down.
So why do you think you know acompany like Google that really
hurt?
You know, when eHow was big,where I actually got the answer,
I worked for it.
What do you think changed inthe algorithm over the years
that has made search come tothis and the way it is, and I'm

(15:58):
not the only one who feels thisway.
I actually was talking tosomeone about this, or a couple
of people about this, at aconference a couple of days ago.
They believe the same thing.
So what do you?
What do you think theirthinking is in the change of
search results these days?

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Yeah, I have a thought for you on chat, gvt and
in how you were using it there.
But to directly answer yourquestion, google's first guiding
principle is to focus on theuser and all else will follow
what?
And they have 10 guidingprinciples that they publish on
the website and that's numberone.
The reason I say that is that,as Google fixed itself over the

(16:33):
years and made a better searchengine, even though they're
already dominant through alltheir algorithm updates and
machines, teaching machines andAI, writing AI I mean like we
can't even wrap our mind aroundthe what Google does, right,
like they don't even know whatthey do sometimes, that they get
they, just it, just it justmagically happens.

(16:53):
But their outcome is the bestsearch results possible.
And to have the best searchresults and with the 10 links,
what Google's first going to do?
Something where they havediversity.
So they want to have a coupledomain name brokers, they want
to have a couple of review sites, they might want some
instructional videos or articles.
They might want somethingtotally like so tangential.

(17:17):
You're like, why is this guyeven in the top 10?
But that only leads to a threespots for training on a domain
name brokers.
But Google's trying to.
You're trying to return thebest 10 results for the user
experience so that they clickthem, come back and click others
.
So, as they're trying to dothat, and people are interacting
with the search results, ifthey like something let's say,

(17:38):
users like a review site wherethey kind of did the shopping
for them, and if that's legit ornot doesn't matter but it
appears to the searcher thatsomebody pre research this and
they listed the top three domainname brokers.
Well, users like that, and ifusers like it, then Google's
going to like it.
It's not because it's notbecause it's a better solution

(18:00):
Well, the data says it is ifmore people click on it and
dwell on it and engage with it.
So you just got to realizeGoogle's ultimate goal is to
have as many searches aspossible, to have as many ads.
So people click the ads.
So, and they got to keep theusers happy and they got to keep
them coming back.
So when you, when you thinkabout Google that way, or if you
jump over to Amazon and thinkabout what is Amazon truly

(18:21):
trying to do when I optimize mycontent there, or what's the use
case for you to what's Reddit,you know, why do people go to
these different places and whatare, what is happening on these?
You know, even if somebodyfires up a Slack channel,
there's so many different placesyou could search.
But what is the technologytrying to accomplish?
What does the business careabout?
And when you go into thatecosystem, including Google, you

(18:42):
got to understand the rules bywhich the community and the
platform is built.
And when you know that if youraudience is there, you can
figure out how to connect withthem with content.
I know I mean I brought up likea bazillion concepts there, but
but you just kind of got toremove yourself like from like.
As soon as you start sayingmeta tags and title tags and

(19:03):
tech SEO, you kind of lose me alittle bit, because it's like,
yeah, that that's optimizationyou do after the fact.
That's like, that's like duediligence, you do after you're
buying.
You know as you, after you havea potential buyer and a letter
of intent, right, like you don'tdo that, like you don't, you
don't have a fast website andimperfect, optimized content.
That's not the secret to SEO.

(19:24):
The secret is making additive,high value content that people
care about and will interactwith when they see it in the top
10 of Google.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
If you do that, traffic will follow Google
reward you and you think it candefinitely tell the difference
these days.
Can it tell it between AIwriting and human writing, or do
you think that's kind of a ohabsolutely.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
And there's been a lot of blind tests between you
know some of the AI detectiontools and how well they work.
But you know Google has alsocome out and they don't often do
this, but they have statedpublicly that they they're old.
You can read this in theirpolicies and guidelines.
They're okay with AI.
They just don't want you to useAI to do things that are

(20:08):
manipulative, like build largecontent farms or you know, just
let's call it article spin.
What I believe and what I coachand work with people on is that
AI should sit behind you.
It should much act like you'rea research assistant, your
intern, make you kind ofde-stress, the whole constant
you know the whole like writer'sblock that you get when you get

(20:31):
started, like it should be whenbehind your sales, so that then
you can sit down and I call itenriching you do brand
enrichment of whatever contentcomes out for quotes and visuals
and your take, and like youneed to make the connection as
the brand manager, marketer,owner, founder, entrepreneur,
between your content and theaudience.

(20:51):
Ai will never do that, man.
It sure gets you to the 20-yardline.
You know we've got to punch itin.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
You know, I mean that's and a lot of times that
when people go to you know theysee these use cases of you know
the AI gurus and like I put inthese prompts and it wrote this
magical article and I publishedit and I got this much traffic
and I did it 200 times and now Ihave this asset.
It's like, okay, I get it, butlike that's not how this works.

(21:21):
Most small businesses need toput out a blog post or two a
month, whether you're B2B or youknow direct to consumer
Instagram or you know LinkedIn.
You need to put out your postand it's got to connect with
people and it's got to engage.
You know we're not, we're nottrying to build content firms
here.
We're just trying to.
We're just trying to connectwith audience and bring them
over to your website.
You know, get them familiarwith your brand, maybe start a

(21:43):
conversation, maybe they followyou so they'll watch.
I mean, the goal you know thegoals that we're trying to
accomplish with people is muchlower and it needs to have that
human touch interaction.
But I'm a big user of AI.
It's changed my productivity.
I've helped other peopletransform how they use AI on a
daily basis.
I use it for email, articlegeneration, meeting notes.

(22:06):
I mean, I use it for all kindsof things.
I even have it now doingthrough PROMS.
I have it helping me write myreports for people that I, you
know, I coach and consult withon a monthly basis and I'm just
now putting together a coursethat tries to that helps people
understand.
Like, how do you use AI todaythe right way?

(22:27):
And I know you're from now I'llhave to redo all the material,
but it's still, you know, today,how do you, how do you leverage
AI to create your contentstrategy, to actually produce it
?
You know there's a right way todo it, the wrong way, but
that's been true of everything.
There's a right and wrong wayto grow followers on social
media, build links.
You know, no matter what showsup, there's always been a white

(22:49):
hat, black hat, ethical, yeah,you can do it, but is it really
the right?
You know, is it a good businesspractice or not?
You know, we can all debatethose.
I just know where I sit, whichis a little bit more on the.
It is gray, but it leanstowards the white hat.
Or let's do this the right wayand leverage technology and AI
to get there.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
So before we, before our call today, we were talking
or before we started recording,we were talking about how you've
worked with a lot of Fortune500 or Fortune 100 companies in
your career and I was curious toknow and I think a lot of our
listeners are curious to knowwhat.
What is it like to be on kindof the marketing and strategy

(23:29):
side of things when it comes toad spending and rolling out?
You know opportunities and,most specifically, you know
purchasing like a domain name.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah, you know, being a being, a being a non paid or
organic guy.
Non paid comes from GoogleAnalytics is what they call it.
Paid, so it's non paid.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
Oh, it's very much Pinary right.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Like so yeah, I mean I would always pay attention to
the, to the ad buys in the mediaspend because I could, I could
get strategy signals from it.
But a domain name purchase,they always consulted the SEO
organic guy to try to throw outvalue.
And I mean I watched big brandsprimarily buy, not as much sell

(24:13):
, right, because they're goingto, they're going to keep the
domains that they own becausethey they saw, you know, they,
they see some intrinsic value inthem.
But you know, I saw how toevaluate maybe something they
had in their portfolio again,something that they would buy,
and a lot of times it was evenfunny with some of them they
wouldn't tell me what they werethinking of paying and they
would ask me for my independentassessment both on, you know,

(24:35):
but we know the metrics, domainage, maybe some content, was
there Common words, right?
Oh my God, it has a dash.
You know, like you know,whatever it might be, you know
my opinions and it was kind ofalways a fun exercise, it was
like a highlight of my month,like, oh, I get to, I get to
play domain valueator and youknow, and I would give them.

(24:56):
I mean I was never.
I always came up a little on thelower side.
So I think, like the largestone I ever did was I had I had
estimated about 250,000.
And they were.
They were negotiating at400,000.
But and they went and bought it, even with the description.
See, they were just curious tosee where I would land without
having the information and eventhe bias of you know with it,

(25:20):
you know, to try to justify apurchase.
So I, you know I would thoughtit was a stretch at 400, but it
had strategic value to them andand they did it.
So, but but was interestingthrough all of it is and I know
we were talking about a specificexample that you experienced
with this that it was alwaysinteresting to watch them get
solicited or maybe they werepoking around and you know the

(25:41):
premium domain names come up andthey start thinking about well,
maybe I should pay money forthat.
It was always interesting towatch the marketing teams not
dilemma, but like strugglethrough trying to figure out
whether they could get a returnon buying the domain or if
they're better off usingsomething in portfolio or newly

(26:03):
registered, like it reallycaused them a lot of angst and I
I always watched the problem inthe, in the confusion, but I
never saw an external personthat was pitching a domain
really sell it into that likestrategy and ROI.
It was like this just domain hasvalue.

(26:23):
But it never was like you know,like like if you're selling a
house, you want someone toenvision living there.
So I always was like wonder whythey don't like show them what
they could do with it or float acouple of ideas by them,
because they got to sell thisupstream and this isn't a cheap
buy.
You know, someone's got towrite a pretty big purchase
order here and they're going towant to understand what's the
strategy behind buying thedomain and then they need to put

(26:46):
a team on it and then they getan advertiser to roll it out in
some way.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
So we were talking about since you worked with VW
we were talking about a domainthat I was trying to sell back
in 2009, 2010.
And it was hybridcom, and so myidea was, back in that period of
time, hybrid technology wasrelatively new to the market I
think it came out a few yearsbefore and when I went to all

(27:10):
the major and even the smallerauto manufacturers, my idea or
my position in that was why notuse hybrid to showcase the
hybrid cars that you have forsale and your offering to kind
of separate it?
Because I think we're seeing itnow with electric cars People
are hesitant to purchase anelectric car for a number of

(27:32):
reasons.
Number one is the range in asfar as you think, or if you want
to go see Matilda, 600 milesaway, I don't want to wait, I
don't want to stop for two hoursto recharge, or I can't find a
place to recharge, and then withhybrid, people were saying
they're probably very costly tofix or catch on fire or whatever
it is, and so I was thinking ofpitching a VW or someone like

(27:55):
that you know hybridcom and theywould think that they would
showcase their products on itand by owning the domain, they
would be the perceived marketleader in hybrid technology.
And you brought up a reallycool point of view of something
that you would have pitched, sowhy don't you tell us what your
pitch would be?
I wish I was recording when wewere talking about this.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
Oh no, it's great, I'll love so.
With VW you have to think firstabout what are they trying to
do?
And they're trying to sell carsand they've built this perfect
website, vwcom, that they havespent millions and millions I
don't want to say billions toobig of a number of dollars to

(28:37):
either drive people to thedealership or they, you know,
they, they they're going toconfigure and get as far as they
can before, you know, go intothe dealership.
And that's the purpose of thewebsite.
It's making model, it's carsearch.
There might be some service oraftermarket parts, but I mean it
is, it is car search, that'sthe purpose of the website.
So anytime that I would evertalk to someone like VW about

(29:01):
content marketing, they, they,they didn't want to introduce
any potential friction ordistraction to that and and and.
So they didn't want to putcontent unless it was somehow
enriching, to make modelinformation, which we did on the
equivalent of product detailpages.
But you know auto detail pages,you know content marketing

(29:21):
couldn't fit in.
So what I would have done withhybrid, I would have.
I would have pitched them withhybridcom.
I would have pitched them shelfspace because, number one, what
VW wanted me to do, and theyhad the domain authority to do
it.
They wanted to rank VWcomforward slash hybrid cars number
one in Google.
They may even have owned it, Idon't know.

(29:41):
I'd have to go back and look.
However, not everybody mostpeople want some type of third
party validation, some type oftrusted source, so I would have
pitched them hybridcom as whatif we could put hybridcom number
two for hybrid cars, so thatwhen someone wants a second
opinion, you know they want somethird party commentary.
They bump over to hybridcom,they read all about hybrid cars

(30:02):
and then, sure enough, it justshoots them back to VW, you know
to, to price out the newesthybrid model.
So brands can get behind thingslike that, because now you've
you're solving two problems.
You give them a contentmarketing play where they can
introduce people to VW who arecurious about hybrid cars in a
non-threatening research way,without hurting the conversion

(30:23):
rate on their main e-commercesite, and this was something
that I've seen big brands do.
A lot is that you know what asmall brand thinks about.
They think about a microsite,right, like, oh, I have a pain
product problem, or I have this,this new thing I'm doing, and
so they build a five or 10website page, website or you
know whatever 50 pages.
What a big brand does is, ifthey want to own hybridcom and

(30:45):
hybrid cars and want to do itthrough content, they're going
to produce 100, 200, 300 pagesand be the comprehensive
resource and and lean into thatand then drive all the traffic
back to the e-com or the carsearch site.
Now, vw didn't do that and thereason that I can speak so
confidently to the strategy isthat I did do it with another
large brand in Dish.

(31:07):
They had the same problem.
We tried to put content ontheir website and Dish Network.
As it became Dishcom, wefigured out analytically that
putting the content on thewebsite distracted people
because they wanted to readabout.
You know, when were the princeand princess getting married, or
what time is this football gameon, or when's my next episode
dropped?
They would get distracted bythese entertainment questions

(31:29):
and they would forget to finishthe checkout.
So what we did is we built, weacquired and built Dish TV and
this was, this was this wasalmost before WordPress, like no
one had heard of WordPress.
This is back in the bloggercom.
Yeah, we started producingthree times a day entertainment
post Well before.
Like I said before, blogging isthe.
You know the machine it is nowand sure enough, we started

(31:51):
building traffic and Dishcomsponsored Dish TV, I mean it was
, it was branded and I meaneverybody was going on and we
just fed people into the, intothe satellite package e-commerce
engine and after about twoyears of investment, so we're
talking I don't know we'retalking more than a half, but
not a million bucks worth ofinvestment into this.

(32:13):
They had an asset that hadpositive ROI so you could pitch
hybridcom not only, let's sayyou're selling up for half
million dollars, but yeah, thetwo million dollar investment.
If it sells carsinternationally, I mean, how
many cars does it have to sell?
You wouldn't take it, wouldn'ttake a lot of work to have a
quick business model.

(32:33):
So the marketing person canpush it upstream and look like a
rock star because he came upwith a big idea.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
Yeah, I think it's funny.
You said 400,000 because Ithink that was the list price,
so maybe that was the deal thatwent across your desk he says
only were 250.
So let's pretend that you'reworking with VW right now and a
guy like myself calls in andpitches in that idea and it's a
good idea, and they're bitingand they like it.
And they're like you know whatwe're going to buy hybridcom.

(33:01):
You say you know what, theprice is fair, I think it's high
, but you know whatever.
And they say, okay, let's do it.
How long would it take fromthem if they bought the domain
that day?
How long would it take them tomake that decision?
You know, to really build thatsite, get it started, roll out
that strategy like how longwould it take, do you think a

(33:21):
car company or a big company todo that?
To make the decision or toexecute the project well, like,
how long do they are taking tomake the decision?
Do you think wow?

Speaker 2 (33:31):
We are talking about fortune 100 and 500 companies,
so should we talk in years ordecades?
Yeah, okay, you know you'redefinitely looking at quarters
and something, something.
This will be what I be lookingfor.
I was talking to somebodyBecause in my world, when I,
when I talk to an entrepreneuror a big brand does not matter.

(33:54):
The first thing I'm trying tofigure out is does this person
marketing, team, brand, you know, enterprise?
Do they want to be anadvertiser or a publisher?
And Usually what makes anadvertiser want to have a
content marketing play is IsGoogle keeps raising their cost
per click and the ad, the adspend, just keeps going up and

(34:16):
up and up and it became a bigenough item on the Expense sheet
that the CFO or whoever is incharge of the money Like it
hurts, yeah, and and so thenthey say, okay, we've primarily
been an advertising play, weneed to do content.
And then the next, the nextpoint is Are you gonna do it off
domain for this particularmodel?

(34:37):
And there's a lot of reasons todo it off domain.
Now they could consider subdomain, but as an estimate, kind
of explain it to them and thatit's like it's probably not
gonna work the way they want it.
Then all of a sudden you canbuild your case because you also
have all the paid Like.
For example, like if I knewthat the brand is spending a
Quarter million dollars a monthon Google ads in their cost per

(34:58):
conversion, whatever it might be.
But let's just say it's 200bucks, you know the matter.
For 20 or 200, I just startdoing the math.
I can start extrapolating whatthe value of that would be and
help them do that decision.
But the, the, I mean you cantake a $10,000 purchase order
and it can take.
It can take a quarter to get itthrough corporate America.
So what's a?

(35:18):
You know what's a half milliongonna take, unless you already
have corporate, our boardroomInitiative and then and then all
it's greased.
If you have to convince them tospend this, like, if you can't
get them, it's gonna be veryhard for someone to enter the
equation and convince them ofthe content publishing

(35:40):
Alternative path.
They kind of need to get thereon their own through self
diagnosis, and you got to havean internal champion.
So I would often play that to,you know, to help them
understand it.
But you would get signals.
You know, if you pitched it toa 50 or 100 people You'd be
looking for.
Huh, I wonder who's spending acrap load of money on Google ads
?
I wonder if I can look up theirdata cost per click data, like

(36:04):
with a spy foo, our Simrush andthen kind of start to work
through.
Hey, you know, if you, if youhad this other play, like all of
a sudden you're you're having abusiness conversation, not a
domain name conversation, andRight, whatever domain name they
pick, because there might beother ones that they're
considering, I mean that you gotto hope that your content play
kind of fits in like hybrid commhere better.

(36:26):
So I mean, because it, you know, it's just like anything you're
gonna.
If you're gonna buy a house orbuy a car, I mean it doesn't
stop on the day you purchase it.
You need to.
You need to understand whatyou're gonna do with the house.
You don't understand enjoymentYou're gonna get from the car.
They got to know what they'regonna do the domain name.
You're never gonna get themoney got it.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
So then, sticking with this subject, with hybrid
comm or any?
What are your feelings aboutexact match domains, meaning
it's exactly about the productor service they're offering?

Speaker 2 (36:51):
It's very helpful.
I mean, historically, the exactmatch domains did really really
well, you know, I think that,yeah, I think there's a little
more lenience with Google, but Imean it's absolutely gonna give
you, it's gonna help youleverage, you know, to have to
have the exact match, and andwhen you can get exact match to

(37:12):
your brand name or to your orwhatever problem you're trying
to solve, whatever educationyou're like I had mortgage 101.
So hybrid to represent hybridtechnology are even hybrid car
technology, and I would say carswould be where you start.
You can get more comprehensive.
Whatever that means is.
The next most important thing,though, is that Hybrids a big.

(37:36):
That's a big topic.
Even hybrid cars is big.
So if your exact match is thatbroad, that's a big content play
.
When you work downstream and youtry to find more of a niche
Contemplate, when you can takean exact match plus be focused
on that topic, I mean now you'rejust you're running downhill,

(37:57):
not because Google rewards theexact match, but it works for
your branding.
When people see the domain onsocial or searched, they're
gonna be more likely to clicklike it's just more of an
all-inclusive, inclusivesolution.
That's, your exact match isgeared towards your content
strategy and the brand supportsit, like if it was a triangle,
you got all three working foryou.
I mean doesn't mean you can'tdo it without an exact match.

(38:19):
And it might be, I Don't wantto say it's the least important
out of the three, but man, it isreally nice when the brand and
the exact match, you know exactmatches up to the, to the, to
the topical content.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
Well, yeah, I think you search credit cards on
Google, you're gonna see creditcards calm, but you're also
gonna see like visa and then andthen like other you know travel
, you know related credit cardsand whatnot.
So, like you said, there'sgonna be a mixture of results.
So, sticking with the bigfortune 100s are large companies
, right, and so when I wastrying to sell into Car

(38:52):
manufacturing and I've tried tosell into other massive
companies a lot of the timesthey they have in some of the
data mining Sites that I use tofind the decision makers of
these companies will also letyou know of the media company
that they're using or theadvertising agency that they use
, or you know people that helpas a third party For their

(39:13):
advertising.
Do you think it's worthcontacting those Advertising
agencies or those media buyingagencies, or so do you go first
to the Lions head first or thesnakes head first and then get
told to go there?

Speaker 2 (39:26):
Boy, I'm in.
That's a great question in myexperience.
First, the relationship betweenorganic and and paid as it
relates to agencies isinteresting because In the

(39:46):
agency world, someone's theagency of record, the lead, and
it's often the paid mediacompany, because it's the
largest budget and largest feeand and what most paid media
companies want to do is theywant to control all of the
decisions.
So, yes, if you want, I meanthey're gonna be a player in

(40:07):
this.
But their job as an agency tomake money is to keep this
simple, and Introducing a newdomain name is not simple.
It's very disruptive to mediaspending and buying.
So just know that, right, ifyou're gonna change someone's
domain and they're gonna gothrough a website project and
that's gonna take, I mean likethey're just frickin rolling

(40:30):
their eyes, so you do have totalk that that is a stakeholder
and the very importantstakeholder, unless they, yeah,
but why you seem to like if theoriginal piece was that you're,
you're gonna be more of apublisher, move your own content
.
I mean that that is anti paidsearch agency by by default and
right, like it.
It's just not how they're built.
Now they're gonna have an SEOteam maybe and like, maybe you

(40:53):
can get talking to them.
But I, I don't know I would.
I don't know if it would workor not, but I actually I would
go down the website path becausethe Somewhere in the brand
whether it's a web agency, whichwould be ideal.
But if they're managing thewebsite internally, which most
big brands do, then they havethe heavy lift technology.
You know they don't.
You know they do have webagency like those are the those

(41:17):
that's who people go to first,like they go to them and say do
you have any domains that Idon't know about?
Number one and then number twoif you don't have it, can you
get it for me?
I mean, they're gonna talk tothe IT guys, the web guys.
That that's who the marketer isgonna go talk to.
Not I don't know many CMOs thatwould go to the paid search
agency and start asking aboutBrand domains and content and

(41:39):
all those kind of things.
So that's just my experience.
But I, I, you know, I feel thata particular agency only can
hold one position.
Even if they're, they are inthe paid.
The paid media agency doesn'tusually, yeah, they'll want a
landing page or they'll wantsome creative for their ad
display, but they're notmanaging the website.
They're not running content,they're not.

(42:00):
They're not doing heavy SEO.
They're doing tech SEO andmaybe a little light
optimization, but they're not.
You know they're.
They probably Won't lead adomain thing like this unless
it's a domain name for amarketing campaign.
Got it If it is a, if it's a,if it's a tangential marketing
campaign and they need to domainfor it, they'll do it.

(42:21):
But I don't know that they'regonna pay a premium for that
because it doesn't like I just Ijust need a domain name to land
traffic on.
I can put anything in the worldin the Google ads, unless you
can show you it's been improvedconversion.
So I don't know.
That just gives people myopinion, you know on the matter,
but you know I would.
I would lean towards web agencyand IT guys over media spend.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
I've.
I've found myself approachingthose third-party agencies and
and I really haven't had muchluck.
And I've asked some other folksand and I think they are a
little Disenchanted by theirexperience and they say, well,
they can't mark it up like youcan on Google ad spend, so they
don't want you to take up theirbudget.
And I mean that's like kind ofa crappy thing to say.

(43:03):
But you know, either way itdoesn't matter, it's not leading
to a sale, I guess.
So that's kind of two, two deadends there.
So one of the other things thatwe've been talking considerably
about to change the subjectslightly here is talking more
about AI.
I and you said it can help youget to the 20 yard line and it
has kind of revolutionized yourbusiness.
And I'm getting, as a businessowner, a lot of people in the

(43:27):
SEO or the media world coming tome and saying, hey, we can
write articles, we can optimizethe articles, we can handle all
your customer service with AIand you don't have to pay these
people anymore.
And for me I kind of cringebecause some of the answers I
get from chat, you BT.
And then there's anothersolution I really like to use

(43:48):
called computercom, which is amore unfiltered version of AI or
less controlled by the filtersof some sort of sensors that can
give you some answers, and yousaid it brings you to the 20.
So someone at your team stillneeds to put human eyes on it
before it's fit for humanconsumption, right?

(44:09):
Is that your opinion right now?

Speaker 2 (44:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
The first thing I think aboutis I use a word called co-create
and the co-create is the brandusually.
Sometimes it's a marketingperson, sometimes it's the
founder, entrepreneur.
There's AI, and then I'mplaying a role as a coach, seo,

(44:35):
content guy.
The three of us together canpull this off, meaning that I
can get ahead of the audience, Ican run all the tools in the
analytics, I can come up withcontent strategy, I can help you
find your voice, I can pushthat through AI and give it to
you, and that's a 20-yard line.
But it cannot.
And I've tried it, I've done it.
I've jen stuff up and published.

(44:55):
I've ran it through theoptimizers and published.
I've hooked up chat bots.
I'm even working with somebodywho's trying to put an avatar at
their barbershop in a kiosk togreet people as they come in.
So I mean, ai is doing salescalls.
I've looked at every use casepossible and I understand where

(45:16):
it's at and it can do somethings.
But you need to figure out whatit can do for you and not do
for you.
And I agree with you To jen upan article and just throw it out
there one it's not additive.
I mean if it came from a largelanguage model processed by AI
prompts and then you publishedit.
You kind of just added anotherpage to the billion that are out

(45:38):
there.
I doubt it's going to succeedbecause it was already known
information.
Why would that be the otherproblem?

Speaker 1 (45:44):
You're not adding any value to the world.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
You're just reprinting with what's there,
and there's some things thatneed reprint, particularly if
they're brand new topics, butreally, what you need to do is
that you would use it like youhave this idea.
Maybe you really want to builda guide, a guide to shopping for
hybrid cars, and it's going tobe a compilation of 25 to 30

(46:08):
pages, from beginning to end,and really it's that you're
assembling your thought processand how you would shop.
Ai can help you write every oneof these articles.
I'm putting together a courseright now that teaches people
how to do this, and I used AI toproduce it.
But AI didn't get in front ofthe camera and talk for me.
It just helped me understand mycurriculum, my coursework, my

(46:30):
quizzes.
How would I build the bestcourse possible to create a
transformational experience forsomeone who takes it?
But I'm still the one in frontof the camera.
I'm still the one answering theone-on-one questions.
I'm still having the monthlycall with you for you to learn.
These are examples of like AIshould be behind you and you can
, my God, you can leverage anddo some really cool things, but

(46:53):
it's not that last mile.
That's still you, that's stillthe brand.
That's what people are going topay for If you do it the other
way, then yeah, you are.
You're creating something whereAI has replaced, brings no value
and someone else can do it.
If you're building a product ora service, you're not going to
look at everyone else and copyexactly what they do and think

(47:13):
that's going to sell in themarketplace.
Why would you think that wouldhappen?
With content, you have to havea take.
You have to enrich your content.
You can use AI to get therereally, really fast.
A year ago, let's say a year anda half pre-date December and
January of last year, when OpenAI took the market by storm I

(47:34):
probably produced 10,000, 50,000articles over the last couple
of years.
The average cost reduced about$5, $600.
And a lot of that was a good.
Part of that was copywritingand research and all those
different type of things.
What I did is I justre-engineered.
You're still going to spend $3,$4, $500, but in the old days
you would get kind of a vanilla.

(47:54):
Look in written, even if it wasby a good writer 800 words, 700
words.
Now I can cover multiple topics, put out 3,000 to 5,000 words,
add visuals, enrich it withquotes, publish it and boost it
on social media.
For the same $5, $600.
So it's not that I cut cost.
I'm putting out better contentthat the audience cares about,

(48:14):
because I can get AI involved inthe process.
So me, ai and the brand personwe can make hey together, and
that's a great way to thinkabout it, because I understand
how it works and can teach youbut only you know the brand and
then we can use AI together sothat there's less stress, right,
no, writer's block kind of getsyou started, but we can

(48:37):
leverage it together to put outthe type of things that the
audience is looking for.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
I'm kind of picturing that a carpenter comes in and
redos your kitchen but then itreally comes down to the
finished work carpenter whocomes in and wood that really
makes it pop right.
And that's you now, rather thanbeing the carpenter and the
finished carpenter five yearsago.
I think that I do see ithelping me in my own life, but

(49:03):
yeah, I'm unwilling to trust itall the way.
I find it interesting thatthere are people advertising
that right now and I'm surethere's going to be companies
that trust that it's going to begood all the time, not only of
it having a hallucinations, butagain you're saying it's
regurgitating things the worldalready knows, so it could be
quite boring.
I find it to be long-winded attimes as well.

(49:24):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
A couple of quick things there.
First and I share this when Italk to people on AI, even as
someone who plays with AI everyday, I have about a 25, so one
out of four or 33, one out ofthree chance of something
actually doing what it says itwill do, and I feel like I know

(49:49):
what buttons to push With thehit rate that you get with these
AI tools and even the chatbots.
You just need to know it's low.
Even if it works one day, itmay not work the next day.
It's evolving fast, but whenyou try stuff, it's not that you
can't trust it, right?
Sales and marketers alwaysoverstep their bounds and tell
you how cool it is before it'stime.

(50:10):
That's all that's happening,nothing else.
Don't be afraid to come back insix months and see what that
tool that you checked out aboutnow, that you checked out six
months ago maybe now it's moreon it does a better job.
Now it's living more up to itsbrand promise.
That's number one.
Number two you're exactly right.
In a large language model, withthe billions and billions of

(50:30):
inputs and outputs, we're allplaying with the same
information.
What I try to get a brand to dowhen you develop is, I start
building the additional contentyour brand story, your products
and services, your FAQs, yourtone and voice, your specific
persona, your topics.
You build a secondary set ofknowledge that every time I run

(50:52):
a prompt, I'm loading anywherebetween three or four or five or
six documents at the same timeso that as it pulls the
information out of the largelanguage model, it then writes
specifically to my brand thatI'm working on to create content
that is closer.
Maybe I got it to the 10 yardline Right out of the gate and

(51:13):
I'll repeat it, but when I workwith folks, get your tone and
voice, your audience, yourpersonality, your content topics
, your keyword work.
You got to do all this work,but then you feed this into the
AI as you're working with it andthe output completely changes.
This will all get built inlater.
Later you'll have your ownpersonal libraries and chat and

(51:35):
it'll reference them.
Right now it's kind of a manualprocess, but the concept I hope
you're hearing is large, largelanguage model, but then you
make it hyper specific with yourinformation all in PDF and text
files, and that could bemassive in volume.
It could be volumes of contentas well.
To reduce the ultimate outcome,the last thing I want to leave

(51:57):
you with.
You can control the.
You know how its temperature andhow verbose it is, but this
thing I always want to make surethat people understand is that
in the current version of AI,there is no logic.
Now there's language logic, butthe way that it works is it's
always trying to figure out thenext token in the vector.
So, for example, 2 plus 2, weknow, when we punch into a

(52:22):
calculator is 4, punching intoGoogle, it's 4, put it in a
spreadsheet, it's 4, there'scomputations happening.
The way that a large languagemodel that knows that 2 plus 2
is 4 is that it has read it amillion times.
Therefore, it must be true, butit didn't actually compute it.
And so when we say we'redealing with a large language

(52:45):
model, a chat bot, we sometimesthink it can do things that are
logical.
So, but it can't, and that'swhere you have to feed it with
these additional inputs to helpit arrive at where you want it
to go, because it is justfiguring out the next word that
most makes sense to be.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
Next not the logical word.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
Right, don't ask it about politics, right, and
that's why I mean, but I thinkwhen you kind of get some of
these core concepts down, like,ooh, I got to add my own docs to
this thing, oh, I have to.
It can be analytical, but it'snot doing math the way I think
it is.
You know, now it's going to andit will sooner than later.

(53:32):
That's what the open AI ahamoment was back in October and
November is that it's not publicinformation but speculation, is
?
It added 2 plus 2.
And it was such a breakthroughthat you know and Sam Altman
wanted to release it but theboard wanted to keep it we had
the big, you know brouhaha, ifyou follow AI at all.

(53:53):
They fired him for a week,brought him back, but you know
it was all because they werehaving internal arguments,
because AI added 2 plus 2.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
That's what it was about.
I didn't know that.
I thought it was some sort ofcompany politics going on, but
that's what it was.
That was the root of theargument.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
That was my take.
I mean it did then turn intocompany politics, because open
AI is a, it is a, it is a Idon't know the right word for it
.
I don't know if it's a B Corpor a.
You know a philamprical, butit's not a.
It's not a for-profit business,the way that Google and Amazon
started right where they'retrying to monetize.
Now Sam is trying to monetize,like right now he's trying to

(54:32):
take down the video, like hewants to make the chip, so they
have to pay the video, all themoney.
But you know, that's theinternal thing with open AI and
they have a unique, they havethe market leadership right now.
But that's a unique challengethey're going to face because
they have this internal.
Well, what are they trying toserve?
Are they serving mankindthrough the foundation or they
want to make a you know a crapload of money for all the people
that are tied up with with withstock?

(54:54):
And now you got Microsoftinvolved in their co-pilot
product and you know they're nowon the board.
So those things are a mess.
I love that kind of stuffbecause it right.
Understanding the ecosystemhelps you understand how to play
the game.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
Yeah, I mean it's.
I mean, and then also kind oflike the incestuous relationship
of the people that have workedat each organization and knowing
each other, and theninvestments and right you know.
And then the other, the otherinvestors and the other business
partners that are working withthem and you know the hosting
providers and all the differentservice people are, all you know

(55:28):
, they intermingled with eachother, providing different
services.
So it's whether they'recompetitors or co-working, you
know people or whatever I meanit's.
It's going to be interesting.
What they all come up with andit was what's always amazing to
me is when open AI came out withchat, gtt, but then, like only
a month later, a few weeks later, microsoft launch theirs, and

(55:50):
then Google launch theirs, orwhatever order, and it's like,
were they all not sharinginformation?
And they were all that close.
You know, it's almost kind oflike you look at World War two
with the, the atom bomb and jetengine, where you had multiple
countries working on it and theywere all so close and you know
the Germans seemed to have thebest jet fighter and then the US
got the, the atom bomb, youknow, and when they were spies,

(56:13):
stealing the information andsharing it to get like different
countries to different spots ordifferent companies.
It just seems way toocoincidental that they all
launched, around a similar time,something so unbelievable,
right.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
You know you can do your own research.
I'm speaking somewhat out of myknowledge base, but in my when
I've read the different computerscience books and the the, the
true leaders of AI, back fromthe 70s and 80s and 90s, when
this was first these firstconcepts came along, they
predicted with some accuracythat this would happen around
this time.
Wow, and they forward projectthis all the way out to about

(56:49):
2075, and there's differentversions of AI that will happen
At different times, based on thecomputing power and how
technology should follow, youknow, like Moore's law and stuff
.
So, honestly, the way thatyou're describing it, we're,
we're right on track for whatthey, how they thought this
would evolve over time From afrom a pure, like the way that

(57:10):
physics have to think aboutblack holes.
The true computer science isthe forefathers of AI.
They have predicted and theywrote books about it.
You can read about it and it'sit's eerily, you know, accurate.
And you know just because I hada friend last night at dinner
asked me, you know, because heasked me what I was doing.
I told him about the AI projectI'm working on, where I'm

(57:31):
teaching brands how to leverageit at the Tidal wave content and
he said well, you know, what doyou think of AI?
And I said, well, before, we,before I tell you what I think
about it, the computer scientistsays there's only two outcomes
we either, you know it's gonnabe our friend and we're gonna
live to be 250 and it's gonnaimprove our quality of life, or
it's gonna kill us.
Those are the only two outcomes.
It's very binary and you knownow we won't see it in our

(57:52):
lifetime.
You know this is gonna be a 2075, you know 2100 type.
You know, before we get there,to where it can, it can have
that kind of presence.
But you know, that's why peopleare afraid of it, because of
that outcome.
Not, I don't need to fearmonger, I don't need to like, I
don't need, I don't need to knowwhich outcomes gonna take place
.
Yeah, this is what's happeningtoday.
But you can learn a little bitabout this evolution and how

(58:15):
things might progress by.
But by just poking around alittle bit and reading some of
the you know, reading some ofthe you know the conspiracy
theories are reading about, youknow some of the things that the
original computer scientiststhought about.
So I find it fascinating.
But it's just like the.
It's like the SEO algorithmsthat Google built and the
machine learning, and thensocial media came around and the
dopamine releases that thealgorithms were built to do.

(58:37):
Now we're just in AI.
So in my professional career,this is just another technology
showing up that people aresomewhat afraid of.
They don't know how to use, andI love it.
I like deciphering it, decodingit and then helping the scrappy
emerging brands hey, I love bigbrands too.
They got money, but my, mypassion is helping, you know
entrepreneurs and smaller brands.

(58:59):
Uh, you know Leverage thatinformation and you know Create
success.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
All right, so I know you got to go shortly, like in a
minute or two.
One last question how do yousee, when you look at Google or
even Yahoo, when they'reimplementing AI at the very top
of the page?
Now, do you foresee SEOcompletely changing and are you
going to find yourself cateringto the language models or to AI

(59:26):
and really the results arepossibly going to vanish Because
, like Google's AI product isprobably going to get to know
each of their customers in acustom way?
So do you think that the daysof like listing results might be
different?
Do you think that like listingresults might vanish or do you
think that you know SEO willtotally change with AI?

Speaker 2 (59:47):
Well, it's always going to change and, yes, ai
will change it.
You know, I just kind of say,when you, when you look at SERPs
, search engine result pages,and even as Google thinks of
universal search and what they,what they, when they brought out
universal search, and they, youknow, and they've already
talked about how they're goingto have generative search and
and I can demo it and see itKind of say to everybody's like

(01:00:07):
there was a day that maps wasn'tintegrated into Google search.
There was a day when theproduct feeds didn't come in.
There was a day when therewasn't restaurants and airlines.
Like Google has added differentWindows into right, like it
wants to bring the world'sknowledge to you through search
or through their browsers.
They don't, like they have theconcept of a zero-click search,
like you just know what you wantmagically, which is not out of

(01:00:29):
the question if you carry agoogle phone now working
backwards.
Sorry, the tangent is thatintroducing AI is just another
part of the search results, um,and the reason that when Google
introduces them, what they'regoing to be looking for because,
remember, focus on the userknowledge will follow if it
enriches the search results pageand people interact with it and
they can figure out how to makemoney off of it.

(01:00:51):
Hell yeah, it's going to be allover the search results, yeah.
However, if it doesn't quitemeet that case, then they're not
going to bring it in and wejust won't know.
And it'll probably be very Like, just like sometimes you see
maps and sometimes you don't youget.
When you do a recipe search,you get different results.
When you're looking for whenthe ballgame will come on, you
might.
You know Every, every result isdifferent.
The same thing will happen here, but what I would say as a

(01:01:13):
marketer is more important Is togo up a level and say what's
happened today For the peopleyou want to reach in marketing,
and as you think about the valueof a domain name as being the
hub Of the brand, is that Usersare going everywhere in addition

(01:01:33):
to search, they'll do search inthose use cases.
We know they're all over socialmedia People that consume video
on youtube, people that are onreddit, the number of slack
communities I'm part of, thenI'm over on discord and then I'm
I'm in a.
I'm in a private communitythat's behind a login, like I'm
all over the place.
Yeah, it's wild Right.

(01:01:54):
Like to think that, like tothink that whether or not Google
introduces ai into the searchresults Is that big of a ripple
when you think about going towhere your audience is and all
different places you've got tointeract with them.
I'd kind of say it's a mootpoint, like if people start
using chat gbt more, right, butwe know that chat gbt, whenever

(01:02:17):
you do it and you do web access,kind of bring in in the top
results anyway.
But I and I even say from alinking standpoint, I mean wow,
if I can get in the largelanguage model and get a
citation and people copy thatand put it on their website as a
citation.
I've now learned a backlink, soso I just think you got to lean
into it and say, how do you not, if you're going to leverage a
large language model, absaepping lootly, you should

(01:02:38):
leverage it and then hope thatbecause you leverage that,
google does introduce it.
But getting into barred isgoing to be different than
getting into Claude, going to bedifferent than getting into
chat gbt.
Um, you know, in in chat gbt ifyou somehow published, making
this up, because I don't, Idon't know who they block, but A
lot of publishers are blockingchat gbt.
So if you're publishing onForbes or new york times or

(01:02:59):
entrepreneur or wherever it is.
It's not going to be in chat.
Gbt Might still be in barredlike this is going to get really
complicated really fast.
So I'm going to kind of go backto fundamentally For who I work
with, with small emerging brands, even though I'd Gladly take
the big, the big brand money andwhen it comes to earning

(01:03:19):
Traffic.
So earned media Is pick a topic, own it, become an expert and
then take that multi channelwherever your audience is.
That's what I teach and and ifthe technology changes, you
change with it.
I wouldn't try to get ahead ofit, I would just change.
It happens.
If you get lucky, great, andthat's what I did with the

(01:03:40):
mortgage calculators.
I got lucky.
If you're doing good content,it'll take care of itself and
and you'll be able to.
You know, if you have a videolibrary, an article library, and
something new shows up, you'llbe able to backfill into it.
You don't.
You don't need to be on thecutting edge of like I need to
be the first one or 10 percentin here.
You know, I think when facebookreleased threads in the first
two days 10 million peoplesigned up and then nobody else

(01:04:02):
signed up, they thought theywould get rewarded for being
first of the party.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
No, it doesn't.
Nothing happens fast.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
I mean, if I was an engineer, if I was a developer,
that would be the first thing Iwould develop in my algorithm.
Like, don't reward people thatcome in and try to make a splash
, make them earn it.
So if I'm on linkedin I youknow there's if I'm on google
with the new domain, I'm in thesandbox.
I just know I am for three tosix months.
If I go into linkedin, they'renot gonna.
They're not gonna.
They're not gonna distribute meuntil I prove myself, go to

(01:04:31):
youtube and I'm putting outvideos.
I mean I gotta prove myselfbefore they're gonna just pick
me up and start showing me totheir users an audience.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
And it makes sense, it makes total sense.
Why do you want to see someonewho's made one video?
I mean, yes, usually thecontent is good.
I mean, if I look at my firstpodcast, uh that I just I'm on
my 10th or 12th episode.
I mean I've learned a ton sincethen and the quality has gotten
a lot better.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
So absolutely good.
All right, well, I hope, I hope, I hope that was helpful to
every and I hope I hope peopleget some value out of it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
I got a ton of value out of this and you definitely
have me thinking about AI and alot of different things in the,
In the strategy that peopleshould take when trying to sell,
you know a large domain andTrying to speak their language
some of these larger companiesso chuck, why don't you tell
people how they can get ahold ofyou if they want to use you for
your services?

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
Yeah, so, uh, find me on linkedin and or chuck akins
you can type chuck akins or Iactually go by cia, chuck Isaac
akins, so you can.
You can look me up there.
The I've got two things.
I'll tell people about thefirst tidal wave content.
That's the AI and contentmarketing membership I'm
building.
It's got a price point rightnow in beta of about 500 a month

(01:05:39):
to screaming value.
Uh, you know, to develop yourcontent strategy and, and, you
know, just start putting outthat, that first topical piece.
I've also got my own podcast.
It's called deciphering digital.
About I'm eight or nineepisodes in.
I'm dropping this if they'resixth one next Monday and I'm
just trying to bring on otherexperts and really breaking down

(01:05:59):
if it's whether it's amazon,sco, youtube, whatever, whatever
the digital marketing channelor strategy is, we trying to
deconstruct it down to hey, this, this is what you need to do
and, what's most important,that's what I'm doing on the
podcast.
So, uh, you know, as a creator,I've got a podcast and I've got
a membership.
That's, uh, believe, bycoaching and courses.
But, uh, you know, most of mywork is, uh, you know, is as a

(01:06:20):
marketing coach, both for b2bbrands and direct to consumer,
b2c, cpg.
So, chuck Isaac akinscom iswhere to find me there.
And, uh, you know, I'm alwayslike I have a low overhead.
It's just me.
Now I used to have 20, 25employees.
I'll talk shop with anybody.
So, uh, you know, don't, don'tbe afraid to reach out.
And, uh, you know, if we end updoing some work out of it,

(01:06:41):
great.
If not, um, I'll probably learnsomething from it just by the
nature of the question.
So, uh, um, I just, I just lovewhat I do.

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
That's great Thanks for having you.
We appreciate it and I'lldefinitely put um your contact
information in the description.
Have a good day.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
All right, thanks, all right, I'll see you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
Okay, all right.

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