September 6, 2024 • 42 mins
In this eye-opening episode of the Uncommon Freedom Show, Kevin Tinter sits down with Josiah Friedman and Matt Merrill from Voices for the Voiceless to explore innovative approaches to creating a culture that truly values life.
Drawing from their recent experiences in Southeast Asia and their work in the United States, Josiah and Matt share:
- How Western influences are shaping abortion policies in countries like the Philippines and Indonesia
- Strategies for addressing root causes of abortion, including prenatal diagnosis presentation and corporate culture
- The importance of supporting women to achieve both professional success and motherhood
- How businesses and communities can create environments that genuinely support life at all stages
We discuss the challenges of cultural shifts, the importance of long-term thinking in the pro-life movement, and practical steps individuals and organizations can take to foster a culture of life.
Whether you're involved in the pro-life movement or simply interested in how cultural values shape our society, this episode offers valuable insights on creating positive change both locally and globally.
Find more about how you can support or get involved at: https://www.voicesforthevoiceless.org/
Listen to Josiah's TEDx talk here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WNP6qp0TYE
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey friends, welcome to the Uncommon Freedom Show.
Today we are taking a breakfrom our normal setup and you're
going to have three guys,definitely not as attractive as
my wife, but today we're goingto have a conversation about
something that I am passionateabout, but my wife Becca is also
passionate about, and that islife.
And so today I'm joined by twogood friends, matt Merrill and
(00:29):
Josiah Friedman.
Guys, introduce yourselves,tell us what you do, tell us a
little bit about your familiesas well, because we all have a
wife and we all have kids.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yes, yeah, so I'm the founder of Voices for the
Voiceless, a pro-life innovationlab that's focused on
addressing the root cause ofabortion, so we launched a lot
of different things, kevin, ourwork looks a lot of different
ways, but my main job is thatI'm dad to two.
One is going to be born in twoweeks, so we are gearing up for
that.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Congrats.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
And sleeping and preparing, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Yeah, and I'm married to my wife Aaliyah.
We just celebrated 10 years inApril.
Congratulations, thank you verymuch.
We have an eight-year-old Asherand a seven-year-old Judah, and
so they are rambunctious boysthat keep me busy.
But here at Voices I'm ouradvancement director and I help
manage our relationships atchurches, our strategic planning
and looking to the future.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Excellent, excellent, and your wife tell us a little
bit about her.
Can you do that?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, Andrea is a she's a firecracker.
We've worked together for along time, so we got to know
each other when we were bothlike 15, really and fell in love
working in a lot of differentpro-life capacities, and she my
wife is a visionary.
So I think some of the mostimportant work I've ever done is
(01:47):
simply trying to create anenvironment where her vision
could really be executed andthrive.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Excellent.
What is her role with Voicesfor the Voiceless?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, so she runs one of the movements that we've
gotten behind that's reallyfocused on supporting women who
feel like abortion's their onlychoice, with resources and
support.
Most of what we do at Voicesfor the Voices is focused on
building new things.
We think the life movement hasoperated according to the same
models in most cases for aboutthe last 40 years and there's a
(02:18):
need for innovation and newthinking, and she's really one
of the leading thinkers in thecountry on how to support the
modern woman who's facingunexpected pregnancy today.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, that's awesome and I love the fact that what
you're really focused on is, youknow, supporting the women.
Cause I go back to, you know,growing up in the eighties.
The pro-life movement back then, I think, came across many ways
very hostile towards women andthat is not, I don't think
that's the way that Jesus wouldhave approached it.
You know, I believe that a babyis a new creation at conception
(02:50):
.
I think the science is prettyclear on that.
If it's not a human baby, thenwhat is it?
And I know that there's peoplewill, you know, have different
levels of comfort with.
Well, you know, we need toprotect the baby from conception
.
Six weeks, 15 weeks, you knowwhatever, Um and different, you
know, different, uniquescenarios uh, rape and incest,
(03:12):
probably the two most common and, of course, the life of the
mother, which I don't thinkthere's any mainstream person or
organization that's saying no,if a mom's life is in danger,
that she needs to just carry outthe baby.
The reality is, you can do withmodern science, we can deliver
that baby, put them in aneonatal, a NICU unit, and save
(03:35):
the life of the mother mostlikely, and also most likely
save the life of the child.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, yeah, it is.
And I think the, when it comesto this issue, people have tried
to understand what abortion isfor a long time and I think a
lot of people have madedifferent attempts.
But I think, if you look atscripture and what God would say
about the abortion issue,chiefly it's about broken
relationship.
Abortion is a failure ofcommunity and it's the
separation of the interests ofmother and child is really what
(04:03):
it is.
So you think of how abortion issold in the modern day.
It's sold by a society tellingwomen you have a choice.
You can have a future or yourchild can have a future, just
not both you pick.
It's a terrible choice.
The pro-choice position, in mymind, has become fundamentally
just a defeatist position, arecognition that well, I guess
(04:25):
we concede the best world we canimagine is a world where
mothers and children cannotthrive together.
And the pro-life positionwhether you call it pro-life or
something else, it might need anew brand, to be honest is not
only a belief that every humanlife has value and we can't take
the life of the weakest amongus.
It's important to protect them.
It's also the belief that thatvision isn't good enough.
(04:49):
The vision we need is a worldwhere motherhood can be a path
of success, no matter howsomeone's journey begins, and so
part of the work of ourorganization and our big vision
is we want to reframe whatexactly we are about as a people
that's looking to protect lifeand to help women navigate these
situations, because what we'retrying to do isn't just reduce
(05:13):
the number of abortions or endabortion.
Together, we're trying toreunify the interests of mothers
and children, and that meansmen too, which is why we're
around this, this table as wetry to lead our families, and we
were talking about this beforewe started recording that.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
You know, some people are going to look at this.
Oh, three guys sitting aroundthe table talking about abortion
.
You know, like you're trying totell women what to do, and
actually what we all discussedis that actually, no, behind
every women contemplatingabortion, there's a man who
played at least 50% of of, youknow, of the of of the women
having to make that decision.
And if, if men are the cause ofthe problem, then they're also
(05:55):
at least part of the solution.
Uh, you know, I tell people allthe time that literally we
could wipe out the need forabortion in nine months.
If, on what you know on today,if we just had a radical shift
and the values and the behaviorof men in America, then rape
(06:16):
wouldn't happen, incest wouldn'thappen and every man who slept
with a woman would decide, youknow what, if she gets pregnant,
I'm going to step up and I'mgoing to be the father and I'm
going to support her.
And so it's simplistic, becauseobviously we know that, for,
you know, 10,000 years humanshave been sinning and making
mistakes, and but the flip sideis it's actually a very simple
(06:39):
solution, right?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
You know people come from a lot of different
political backgrounds on thisissue.
Right, you know people comefrom a lot of different, uh,
political backgrounds on thisissue and we talk with people
who are very firmly entrenchedin just the feminist camp.
I think on this issue, many ofwhom resonate with our work, and
we acknowledge that.
Look, there are a lot ofreasons why people feel like
abortion is their only choice,but prevailingly the number one
reason.
When we're sitting across fromsomeone and having a
(07:01):
conversation about her futureand her goals and this child and
how they could all worktogether, the number one problem
is that she doesn't know thatshe has her support, that her
partner's support, or he wantsher to get an abortion
Prevailingly, most commonly thenumber one issue.
So, in that way, you're rightand, matt, you've spoken to this
as well in some really goodways.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah, and I think when we don't talk about men
right now, the my body, reallygood ways.
Yeah, and I think when we don'ttalk about men, um, right now,
that my body, my choice argument, it all creates a man to be
able to say is whatever youdecide, I'll support you.
And what we have found is we'vetalked with women about their,
their experiences.
What they felt is this decisionyou just placed wholly on my
shoulders and you're toocowardly.
It's not really.
You want an abortion, butyou're not not being direct with
(07:43):
it.
And so, when men aren'tinvolved, what we're not
encouraging men to do is to takeresponsibility and to be
servant leaders.
Nobody at ProChoice or ProLifeis really advocating for men to
be masculine, present voiceswith their partners.
And that doesn't just mean, hey, get the abortion, I'll support
you.
It means hey, you bringassurance to the relationship,
(08:08):
like I'm looking forward togrowing with you as we navigate
this together.
No matter what you may befeeling right now whether you're
scared, you're afraid orwhatever it may be I'm with you
right now.
So that voice of reassurance iswhat that woman likely needs.
But nobody's training men to bethere as a present voice and
(08:29):
therefore we don't know how tosupport our friends who are in
that situation.
They build a positive pressuretowards how they support that
woman.
Oftentimes I've talked to peoplewho've had abortions and that
man basically said what wealready said you have an
abortion, or sorry, my body, mychoice, and whatever you decide,
(08:51):
I'll be with you.
Like he didn't want theabortion, but he wasn't clear
with that.
And she didn't want theabortion, but she felt like he
did.
And so we don't fostercommunication.
We don't believe men have aright to be able to talk about
this with their partner andtherefore women are making
abortion decisions because theyfeel that the partner wants it
(09:13):
when they actually don't want itat all.
So one of the biggest things wecan do is just encourage men to
be supportive voices and tostate their stance, that they
are for their partner, they'refor that relationship and
they're for that raising thatchild together.
That's good.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah.
So when we talk about you know,like me growing up in the 80s
I'm you know, and I'm older thanboth of you by a few years, by
a few years In the 80s the kindof the stereotype, certainly in
I would say, kind of churchcircles, was that a good mom
(09:47):
stayed at home didn't work, andI mean that, like that was just
kind of the stereotype, like ifyou were a mom dropping your kid
off at daycare, like it waslike, oh, kind of you know the
stay-at-home moms frowned upon,uh, those mothers, and it kind
of put women into a spot.
It was either or, and my wifelikes to use this phrase that
(10:09):
she got from one of her friendsit's both and, and what I love
about all of our wives is thatthey operate in the both and,
and I think this is what Voicesfor the Voiceless does, and it's
what you're passionate about ishelping women realize this
isn't an either or.
I mean you have a dynamic wifewho's, you know, having, you
(10:30):
know she's a visionary, she's anunbelievable leader, and she's
pregnant, she's getting ready tohave her second child, and so
she's operating in the both end.
You know my wife same thing.
She's built a huge business.
She's a phenomenal speaker,she's a great leader, thousands
of people look up to her, andyet she's also an unbelievable
(10:51):
mom, and she's operating in thatboth end, and so I think that's
one of the key pivots to makeis that, if you're faced with
this challenging situation, youcan get through it, and there is
a both-and option for you, notan either-or.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
I think one of the things that's so important about
that, and one of the key valuesthat we've brought to bear in
our work, is the idea thatmotherhood can look all kinds of
ways.
There are a lot of differentways to be a good mother, and
one of the reasons I think forthat is in not just conservative
circles.
It's kind of the opinion of aprevious generation was that
motherhood should look a veryspecific way.
(11:30):
That has changed, but it'schanged in ways.
It's changed in a culture thatreally uses abortion as the way
to make it change.
So when the Dobbs decision theSupreme Court decision that
overturned Roe was argued, oneof the justices asked by what
(11:53):
right are you asking?
Are you saying that there's aright to an abortion?
He was asking the pro-abortionattorney this question.
The pro-abortion attorney saidyou know, it's not autonomy and
it's not privacy the two legalrights before it's liberty.
And the pro-abortion attorneywent to make the argument that
in the world that we live in,there was simply no way that
society could be equal and justfor women if they didn't have
(12:17):
the opportunity to have anabortion.
In other words, abortion was aprerequisite for that kind of
equality.
The issue now is that the worldthat we have to create is a
world where that kind ofequality actually exists, but
without abortion.
It's a better world to createaltogether.
Everybody should be able to getbehind this vision that no one
should have to choose betweenthe future that they see for
(12:40):
themselves and their child.
Now, of course, there areconcessions, right?
Yeah, I've known this, and whenyou know I'm a man, but when I
became a parent, everything inmy life changed dramatically.
And things do changedramatically, but you can still
have you know dreams and atrajectory to your life and be a
parent.
Have you know dreams and atrajectory to your life and be a
(13:01):
parent.
And if we're able to create aworld where you can thrive being
a mother and working and havinga business and doing these
things, in some senses we haveto prove to the world that that
is possible.
Now it is possible.
So a lot of the things thatwe've done.
One of my favorite articles thatgot sort of viral run on the
internet that we worked on wasthe story of a mother who had
bought a house in California aslike a 26-year-old financial
(13:24):
analyst who had an unexpectedpregnancy very early on, and it
got a lot of run because it justchallenged so much of people's
opinion Because, again, thatpro-choice belief is a very
limiting belief, saying ifthere's only one way to be a
good mother, you certainly can'tbe that and pursue the
different things that you wantin your life, and so it's
(13:46):
nontraditional to advocate forthis kind of thing.
But I think people, especiallypeople who are pro-life, need to
understand that's the worldthat we're actually kind of
fighting for is where that storyis heard all around the world.
It becomes the norm and itinspires a lot of people who
have great dreams and vision fortheir life, who fear that this
child is the end of that road,to actually question that doubt,
(14:11):
to doubt their doubt and to goactually.
It might be something else,given the stories of these
thousands of people who have adifferent way of going about it
and living their life it's anuncommon way to live your life
right for now.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, that's good.
So, um, we, you guys justreturned from a whirlwind trip
over to southeast asia, right,the philippines and indonesia,
correct?
Okay, so talk about what youwere doing there and kind of
what the landscape of life anddeath looks like outside of the
(14:48):
United States.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
So the reason why we were there is, as an
organization, we're trying toaddress the root causes of
abortion, meaning those triggersthat cause a lot of people to
feel like abortion is their onlychoice.
And as an organization, we callit.
If you're familiar with thebook, blue Ocean Strategy, we're
constantly looking for blueocean.
So we're not trying to redo amodel that someone else has
(15:10):
already done or compete in aspace where there's someone else
doing something.
We've realized this is a reallyimportant time in the life
space to be doing that, becausethere's so much that needs to
get done and there are manyurgent problems that
pro-abortion advocates havetaken advantage of and that
pro-life advocates don't evenknow what's going on.
(15:30):
So one of the most significantdevelopments has been the effort
to colonize abortion, inessence around the world, the
United States being the greatestdefender of this, with the
Gates Foundation and othersusing US aid and different aid
funding programs to try torequire that different countries
around the world legalizeabortion in order to get access
(15:53):
to the help that they need andthe basic services.
In the two countries we went,abortion is not legal In
Indonesia.
It's legal through 14 weeks,but only in the case of rape In
the Philippines.
Philippines has a constitutionalprovision that protects life
from conception, which is veryunique, but in both countries,
(16:14):
and especially the Philippines,the organizations that are
trying to spread abortion allaround the world and therefore
create cultures and societiesthat become dependent on
abortion to thrive.
Those organizations are alreadyoperating in those places,
public opinion among their youngpeople is already shifting and
while most people in thosecountries feel like the law will
(16:35):
never change, we remind themwhat happened in Ireland just a
few years ago, which Ireland wasa Catholic country through and
through, where two-thirds of itspopulation was strongly
pro-life.
The same thing happened.
The same people came in andthey created a blueprint and
five years later Ireland, with atwo-thirds majority and 85% of
its young people, legalizedabortion, and it'll be very hard
(16:59):
to overturn the differentthings involved with that.
Now we're not a politicalorganization, but one of the
things we realize is that all ofthe cultural things we don't
like, that abortion causes, thatfeeling that women have to
choose between their job andtheir child, and so many other
things that abortion does in oursociety.
They happened after Roe, afterRoe was handed down, and so many
(17:19):
other things that abortion doesin our society.
They happened after Roe, afterRoe was handed down, and it
almost gave our societypermission to be completely
dependent on abortion as a falsesolution to any of its problems
.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Basically birth control.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Exactly, yeah, yeah, and now.
So these countries areextremely vulnerable to this
happening.
The same people are going thereand we're creating a strategy
to do what we can to supportefforts in those countries to
actually fortify their churchesso they're able to communicate
the pro-life position winsomely,and to create strategies to
(17:54):
reach the next generation that'salready being reached by
different forces that want toforce abortion beyond the West
into these countries.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
You know and there is a thought of a leadership
generation that we're a pro-lifenation.
We'll always be pro-life.
So we had one meeting with anational leader and he was
telling us we'll always bepro-life, this isn't something
we have to be concerned about,and immediately we're so always
be pro-life.
This isn't something we have tobe concerned about, and
immediately we're ushereddownstairs into the Senate
hearing where a woman wasadvocating from the Senate floor
(18:26):
hey, we need to pass nationalcomprehensive sex education.
And the language she used wasthe same language that I've been
experienced with.
I've sat on a sex educationreview board for a school
district.
It was the same language ofPlanned Parenthood in that
nation.
We realized that the ideas beingpresented weren't native to the
Filipino culture.
(18:47):
It was exported from the UnitedStates or from Western
influence, and so what we'redoing is we're helping people to
wake up to say look, there arepeople who have a plan for your
culture and your nation thatdoesn't match your cultural
values and that, while yourvalues today are one thing, that
young people are beingpersuaded into another way of
thinking, and it's yourresponsibility as parents, as
(19:09):
families, as institutions tosecure those values and to
explain why these are yourvalues.
Don't take them for granted.
When we take things for granted, we become overly familiar,
like those in Ireland.
I think it's possible thatthere is a light pro-life view
and ethic that wasn't deepenough when it was challenged.
We want to make sure that thereis a depth to the pro-life
(19:30):
position that penetrates so inthe day and it's coming when
it's challenged that theFilipinos can rise to that
challenge.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
So we are talking about the fact that America has
exported obesity to the rest ofthe world through our processed
food.
I was just listening to aTucker Carlson podcast yesterday
and today with some medicalprofessionals just talking about
our polluted food sources and,you know, through processed food
(20:07):
, fast food, you know we areexporting obesity everywhere in
the world and we're now kind ofthe exporter of a culture of
death, really, and kind of themaybe naivete of the leaders in
other countries to think that,you know, we'll always be
(20:28):
pro-life.
There's a saying I can'tremember who's responsible for
it, but that things happengradually, then suddenly, and
you talk about, like Ireland,right, it was gradual and then
it was very sudden.
And really, when you look atsome of the institutions that
are have pushed, you knowabortion on demand essentially
(20:49):
like this was a multi-decadeplay, it just it didn't happen
overnight.
Like the amount of strategy andpatience it took to get to where
we're at now is actually it's,it's.
It's admirable because, like,if, if, if the rest of us put
that much strategy and patienceand consistency to all the other
(21:13):
positive goals that we have inour life, we'd be wildly
successful.
How do you see impacting theseother countries, like what is in
place to potentially keep themfrom going down the road, the
slippery slope that the US is on.
Or like what are some of thethings that you, that you were
trying to accomplish while youwere overseas?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I think there are a few really significant
opportunities Now.
Some of these countries,especially the Philippines, is a
really highly Christian country.
I think it's like 85% Catholic.
In the end, one of the reallygreat voices to the culture
comes from the church.
In the United States we talkabout the importance of the
church communicating something,but it doesn't have near the
same influence that it wouldhave there, and so we're
(21:59):
contemplating and working withdifferent church leaders to go.
How can we actually bring in orwelcome in a training on the
ethic of life?
so that people can deepen andhave deep rootedness to why they
believe what they believe whenit's challenged, and so that
different things can happen thatare really critical.
(22:21):
Kevin, I'll tell you this, it'snot as if either country
doesn't have abortions today.
They do.
They just come by a differentway.
They go through secret routes.
There are witch doctors anddifferent things like that
Meaning.
In those churches, too, thereare people that need healing,
and because those are countrieswhere this topic is a little
more taboo, at least for today,that healing is often never.
(22:44):
There's no real path to get it.
So you know, that's one of themost critical.
God can have a deep rootednesswhen it's challenged, so that
they can stick with it.
So that's one of the leadingthings that we're doing.
(23:06):
We're also just building acoalition of different leaders
in the country to have aconversation on what can be done
to increase pregnancy supportand different strategic efforts
to shape the next generation,Because I think, as we look at
these cultures, these arecultures that profoundly value
family like we don't in theUnited.
States we could hardly relate toor even aspire to, and it's a
(23:30):
really beautiful thing.
So in the Philippines I sat downwith about 40 different college
students and youngprofessionals to ask them what
they thought about the issue ofabortion and to just really be
curious.
Where were the reviews comingfrom?
How were they developed?
About 70% of them were stronglypro-choice, but many of them
(23:51):
affirmed a very close connectionto their family.
They may not share the views oftheir family, but their family
is very important and I think ina culture like that you have
certain opportunities that youdon't have here, because in some
ways we've lost that here, andthe ability to have kind of a
communal reawakening or a deeprootedness on an issue is there
(24:13):
that isn't here.
We have to be superindividualistic in the way we go
about it.
So I would say those are theemphases what we can do in the
church, what we can do to shapethe minds of the next generation
and how we can create anon-ramp for healing for those
who deal with it today, as wellas more support.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Yeah, and I think creating from the beginning the
narrative of the double win,that the win for a mom and child
, and so we can look back fromsome of our mistakes in the life
movement in the US, like in the80s when you saw that it was
pro baby but not pro mom we canhave that narrative from the
beginning and training leadersnot just why abortion is wrong
but why family matters, why whymotherhood matters and casting a
(24:53):
better view and vision of humanflourishing is that's what we
think abortion erodes, is humanflourishing.
That's what we think abortionerodes, is human flourishing.
We don't believe that itanswers life's deepest questions
about significance and purpose.
We believe that churches cancast that holistic vision and
also help redefine what successis.
I think for those who areChristian, their view of success
(25:14):
can't just be Westernmaterialism.
Success can't just be Westernmaterialism.
And so they can strengthen thefamily values but also Christian
values of self-sacrifice, ofbeing a good Samaritan.
So if you do find someone who'sin this situation, your first
instinct is love and compassionand to come alongside.
We believe a lot of that is inthe culture, but when it's taboo
(25:36):
that the people who arecreating these conversations are
people we don't believe havethe best interest of mothers and
children.
So we're helping to proactivelytalk about these things for the
love of God and for the serviceof the families that are
involved in these churches.
And the churches aren't justcongregations, they touch every
sector of society.
Congregations they touch everysector of society.
(25:57):
So, when people are equippedwith the life ethic, if you're a
business leader and the womenin your business feel like they
have to choose between theirfuture or their child's future,
there might be some invisiblethings that business leaders are
doing or not doing that maysupport or inhibit that woman's
decision for life, if she has it.
And so we don't believe thatit's just an intellectual belief
(26:20):
about life.
We believe that this hasreal-world consequences in the
way that we run our lives, notjust on Sundays, but Monday
through Saturday.
We hope that cultural leaders,people of influence, leverage
their influence to help themothers in their lives, or
potential mothers.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
That's good.
How do you see us making theshift here in the United States?
I mean, obviously there'sthere's really a big divide, but
even there's just so manydifferent opinions among church
leaders, and even you knowpeople who claim to be
christians.
(26:54):
As far as abortion, um, how dowe become more um life
sustaining, like once abortionis isn't the solution, right,
it's really a symptom.
So how do we become more lifesustaining in America?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Well, you said something already, Kevin, that
we, that that people who arepro-abortion and those who are
leading the charge are thinkingdecades down the road.
So oftentimes when we thinkabout pro-life, it's always this
election cycle and it's verynear term.
The thing that doesn't happenwhen you're thinking near term
is new ideas and new solutionsthat can change the world 10 and
(27:36):
20 years from now.
So getting business minds andgetting people who aren't just
led by the urgency of the momentand looking at the future
that's a part of it is gettingsome of those leaders in the
life movement together toconsider the long-term good
we're at this head, and that'stypically not the conversation.
As far as the public narrativeof the life movement, it tends
(27:58):
to be very reactive and verythis election cycle Now, rather
than thinking four, five, sixelection cycles in the future.
What are people going to befacing?
What are they going to bethinking?
How do we reach the demand forabortion and the feeling that
abortion is my only option?
I think the only way we getthere is by thinking long term
about it.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, and you asked what can be done.
How do we actually create thisculture?
I think it starts with we haveto identify what the root causes
of abortion are, and then wehave to create strategies high
ROI business strategies toaddress those things.
So I'll give you a few examplesof the problems that need to be
addressed.
One of the leading causes ofabortion in 10 or 20 years it's
(28:45):
not a leading cause today, butit will be in 10 or 20 years is
the way prenatal diagnoses arepresented to patients.
Prenatal diagnosis is atechnology.
It will be able to detect moreand more things that are
imperfect about an individualprenatally and as that number of
things expands, what we haveright now is a huge gap in
(29:06):
physician education.
Currently, there is nophysician education on how to
present a prenatal diagnosis,and it means that so many
families including familieslistening to this have been told
at one time or another it lookslike your child is going to
have this condition.
Here's how many days you haveleft to decide by which the
physician meant to have anabortion and put a rush and a
(29:26):
timer on the situation.
That's why 67% of pregnancieswith Down syndrome are aborted
and why 84% of pregnancies withspina bifida are aborted because
of the way those diagnoses arepresented.
The only way to address that isyou have to change that
presentation.
So one of the things that weare considering doing and we've
made a lot of progress in thiswe have a strategy around the
(29:47):
country to try to shape the waythose diagnoses are presented by
training the next generation ofphysicians to present it
differently.
So that's one example.
Another example would be when itcomes to businesses.
You might have realized thatafter Roe is overturned, about
200 of the biggest corporationsin the United States said, even
if they didn't have any policyto provide for someone's
(30:09):
maternity leave, that they wouldfund their out-of-state
abortion.
And the reason they did that isit's a lot cheaper for them to
fund an out-of-state abortionthan it is to pay for someone's
maternity leave.
But that kind of corporateculture it's what we have in the
United States.
It's completely dependent onabortion and it's why so many
women feel like that double winis completely unachievable for
them, or why they're making achoice between stay at home, mom
(30:31):
or business executive that hasto have as many abortions as it
takes to move up the ladder.
That's not an acceptable thingand the only way it can change
is by raising up the nextgeneration of business leaders
who will think about itdifferently, who will provide
flexible benefits to people andwho will create a culture that
shuts down gossip when someone'spregnant.
(30:52):
It's very important for that totake place as well.
Now there's a list of otherthings.
We have a sort of a map with abunch of different strategies
and things that need to be donefor the long term, but really, I
think the only way we're goingto change public opinion in the
long term this isn't just a gamewhere we've got to get more
people to agree with us thanagree with them.
(31:12):
The truth is, there are way toomany people in our culture today
who feel like abortion's theironly choice, because they're
victims to a culture that's beendependent on abortion for a
long time, and the only way tosolve that is to uproot those
institutions and systematicreasons why people are facing
that and to make motherhood apath of success for people.
(31:33):
That's going to beuncomfortable for a lot of
policymakers, business owners,et cetera.
They're all going to have tomake sacrifices and do things a
more difficult way than they doit now, but that's kind of part
of what it means to havechildren, and abortion is a
failure of community, becausethe only way to really have a
community that values childrenis if we all do that.
(31:56):
Children require slowing down,they require sacrifice, but
they're our most preciousresource, so it's worth it.
We just don't have a societythat functions that way right
now.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
So if you're a business owner or you're an
employer of any type, you couldbe a church right, a large
church with the big staff ofwhich many are females, and you
say you're pro-life.
Yet when you find out that oneof your employees is pregnant
and your first thought is, ohcrap, we're going to lose all
(32:28):
this productivity.
Thought is oh crap, we're goingto lose all this productivity.
Yeah, like this is where youactually get to put your money
where your mouth is right.
Agree.
You say, hey, how can wesupport you?
We're here and obviously youknow everything.
There's always people that willabuse you, know every possible
policy and things like that, butthose are the exceptions, yeah,
and so the reality is as abusiness owner, as an employer,
(32:50):
how can you gather around andcreate that life affirming
community for women who arepregnant?
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yes, and we can provide you a blueprint for how
to do that.
But, honestly, it's more of agut check thing.
Yeah, it's more most people arefamiliar with.
Your family is more importantthan your job right, and that
being generally good advice tofollow, right, but do you
believe that the families of thepeople who work for you are
also more important than yourcompany or organization?
(33:17):
If you do, it's going to takesacrifice, but you can be to be
honest.
For companies that do thisright now, they are a shining
beacon.
They are a place women want towork, who want to have a long,
fruitful career for themselves,because they realize that this
company isn't asking me tosacrifice all of the dreams I
(33:37):
have for my family that are very, very real and present.
It can work in the best interestof companies that are willing
to see it that way.
But that takes sacrifice, Ithink, in the culture that we
have right now.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah, that's good.
That's good.
So how can people learn moreabout Voices for the Voiceless?
If there's someone listeningwho has either had an abortion
you know I mean obviously Ithink the statistics about one
in three people has beenaffected by abortion.
So it's either you know a manwho's you know talked or coerced
his wife or girlfriend intohaving an abortion, or it's a
(34:10):
woman who's had one.
What resources do you recommendfor people that want to find
healing from that?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yeah Well, go to VoicesForTheVoicelessorg and you
can connect with us there.
If this is your story, let mesay this I haven't been through
an abortion personally, but mywhole story was changed up by
one.
So when I was 16, I startedVoices for the Voiceless.
I had just met Jesus.
I was a sort of arabble-rousing political
(34:37):
activist and for three years ledthis sort of growing movement.
And then my mom sat me down onthe couch and said hey, I've got
to tell you something that noone knows, but I just need you
to know.
And she told me about when shewas 19,.
She was pregnant.
She was in this relationshipshe hoped would last, and she
knew only one thing, and thatwas that if her dad found out
(35:00):
about it and if the communityfound out about it, her
relationship would be over andher family's reputation would be
tarnished completely.
And so she went to PlannedParenthood and they said you can
go to this hospital and get anabortion discreetly and no one
will have to know.
And so she did, and she hoped itwas over, kevin.
And two days later she startedbleeding everywhere.
(35:21):
She had to be rushed back tothe hospital.
Her worried parents came andvisited her and she managed to
conceal it and then, a weeklater, an insurance bill came in
the mail describing hercondition, mailed to her dad.
She found it in the mail.
My 19 year old mother marchedback to the hospital and talked
to a medical review board aboutwhy no one was allowed to find
(35:42):
out about this and why theyneeded to change the bill.
so they did they sent her homewith a bill that said bleeding
from an irregular period.
Change the bill.
So they did.
They sent her home with a billthat said bleeding from an
irregular period and my mom'slife kind of fell apart after
that.
Eventually she met Jesus andthere was this redemption story
and 30 years later I waspressing against this wound that
I had no idea existed and itforever changed the way I think
(36:05):
about this issue, not from justjustice, which was my only lens
to view it, but from the lens ofseparation and a failure of
community.
There are people like my mom whofelt like abortion was their
only choice and that needed tobe addressed, but also to
realize I've been approached bya fair number of people who've
walked up to me since then andhave gone hey, I heard your
(36:28):
story.
It sounds like your mom foundquite a bit of healing by
confessing that to you, and it'strue.
And so I think part of myministry is really being able to
help people whose kids don'tknow that they're missing a
sibling or a member of theirfamily to realize that it is
(36:51):
worth it to tell them that.
It is healing to tell them thatand it's part of their
children's identity, whetherthey know it or not, and it
became a great activator in mylife, a way that shaped how I
viewed so many things and howpeople got healed.
And so, kevin, I'd say the mainthing is people are welcome to
reach out to me too, and I'veconnected people with my mom or
(37:15):
even just with me to talk aboutthe importance of sharing that
information with your kids,because I think it is important.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
I think that Josiah had a TED Talk where he shared
this and his mom was the frontrow, but there have been
thousands of people who've beenministered to because of her
story.
So I think, for people who arelistening, where they've had an
abortion or they've encouragedone, when we reconcile that
experience with God, I thinkthat we may not anticipate how
God might use that healing inother people's lives.
(37:44):
When it's something we want tostuff and then we bring shame
and guilt, mold grows in thedark.
But when we can confess thatfind healing in Jesus, which is
totally available, he doesn'tstop there.
He uses it to redeem otherpeople's stories, even if it's
just behind the scenes,one-on-one, and so people who
are listening, I think, need tofind someone.
(38:06):
Ideally, that's churchcommunity, ideally as well.
I know we're working ontraining churches on how to talk
about this with sensitivity,tact and how to create a culture
that is life-affirming andlife-affirming for those who've
had abortions to come out of thedarkness into the light as well
.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah, because the last thing we want to do is make
people feel condemned yeah thedevil already does that, enough,
um, and the guilt that mostpeople feel after having an
abortion is going to do that.
So we want to just provide ahealing, safe space for them and
their stories.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
I mean, god uses those stories because somebody
who's found healing is someonewho has had to wrestle head on
with the pain yeah, it wasn'tjust a pregnancy loss, it was a
loss of a person, and so you cango to a secular counselor and
they can address, hey, what theloss of the pregnancy might have
affected you maybe thecircumstances around but as
(38:59):
pro-life people, we have theonly solution, which is this is
a loss of a life, and some ofthe impact you're feeling is
that there's a person that's nolonger with you.
And so we can help that personnavigate that, find forgiveness
in Jesus which it is aforgiveness issue, but then also
to grieve that person and to beable to celebrate that life.
And so churches ideally are setup to point towards a path of
(39:23):
healing, which is forgivenessand it's grieving, and it then
leads to a place of transparency.
I remember asking a woman whatwas it like before and after you
found healing from abortion?
And she immediately said, matt,I was able to minister out of
my brokenness before, but nowI'm able to minister out of my
healing.
Those stories, I think, arecommon.
When people find healing, itdoesn't just affect one area of
(39:45):
life.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yeah, that's so good, awesome.
Well, hey guys, and to those ofyou watching and listening,
beck and I we support Voices forthe Voiceless.
We're grateful for the workthat you guys do.
We believe in it.
We just love the fact that youtake that blue ocean strategy
because you know pregnancyresource centers they serve a
huge value and purpose, but thelandscape is changing and the
(40:12):
reality is, especially with theabortion pill I think last year
was, I think 63% in 2023 ofabortions happened basically
through the mail is how theabortion was ordered and then
the woman delivered her baby,you know, typically under the
toilet, in her bathroom, and sothat's totally different than it
used to be, once again in the80s, 90s and even, just you know
, probably not even 10 years ago, probably five years ago.
(40:33):
So we love what you guys aredoing and you know my wife Becca
is just you know she lovesAndrea and is just passionate
really about helping womenrealize that they can live in
that both and I love theProverbs 31 woman.
I feel like I'm married to one.
I think we all probably feellike we're married to one.
(40:54):
None of our wives are at homebarefoot and pregnant, which was
kind of the stereotype of thegood Christian mother back in
the 80s when I was growing upthat's not the Proverbs 31 woman
.
She was industrious, she wastaking care of her family.
She was industrious, she was,she was taking care of her
family.
She was, you know, supportingher husband.
She was, she was making things.
(41:14):
She was, you know, involved inthe economy of the household and
she lived in the both end.
And that's really what you guysare all about.
So I will link your TED Talk inthe show notes so people can
find that.
I totally forgot about that,but I have watched that and it's
very powerful.
So thank you for sharing thatstory.
Guys, thanks for being here.
I appreciate you taking timeout of your busy schedules and I
(41:36):
know we'd love to have Andreaon as well at some point, just
so we can hear that woman'sperspective and Becca will join
me for that one as well.
But, guys, keep up the goodwork.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Thanks.
Thank you, Kevin.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
All right, friends.
Please subscribe to the podcastfor more insights on blending
entrepreneurship and theentrepreneurial mindset with
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You can follow us on socialmedia.
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(42:18):
And then please, if you enjoythis podcast, please leave us a
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listening to us on.
Hey friends, welcome to the Uncommon Freedom Show.
Today we are taking a breakfrom our normal setup and you're
going to have three guys,definitely not as attractive as
my wife, but today we're goingto have a conversation about
something that I am passionateabout, but my wife Becca is also
passionate about, and that islife.
And so today I'm joined by twogood friends, matt Merrill and
(00:29):
Josiah Friedman.
Guys, introduce yourselves,tell us what you do, tell us a
little bit about your familiesas well, because we all have a
wife and we all have kids.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yes, yeah, so I'm the founder of Voices for the
Voiceless, a pro-life innovationlab that's focused on
addressing the root cause ofabortion, so we launched a lot
of different things, kevin, ourwork looks a lot of different
ways, but my main job is thatI'm dad to two.
One is going to be born in twoweeks, so we are gearing up for
that.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Congrats.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
And sleeping and preparing, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Yeah, and I'm married to my wife Aaliyah.
We just celebrated 10 years inApril.
Congratulations, thank you verymuch.
We have an eight-year-old Asherand a seven-year-old Judah, and
so they are rambunctious boysthat keep me busy.
But here at Voices I'm ouradvancement director and I help
manage our relationships atchurches, our strategic planning
and looking to the future.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Excellent, excellent, and your wife tell us a little
bit about her.
Can you do that?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, Andrea is a she's a firecracker.
We've worked together for along time, so we got to know
each other when we were bothlike 15, really and fell in love
working in a lot of differentpro-life capacities, and she my
wife is a visionary.
So I think some of the mostimportant work I've ever done is
(01:47):
simply trying to create anenvironment where her vision
could really be executed andthrive.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Excellent.
What is her role with Voicesfor the Voiceless?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, so she runs one of the movements that we've
gotten behind that's reallyfocused on supporting women who
feel like abortion's their onlychoice, with resources and
support.
Most of what we do at Voicesfor the Voices is focused on
building new things.
We think the life movement hasoperated according to the same
models in most cases for aboutthe last 40 years and there's a
(02:18):
need for innovation and newthinking, and she's really one
of the leading thinkers in thecountry on how to support the
modern woman who's facingunexpected pregnancy today.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, that's awesome and I love the fact that what
you're really focused on is, youknow, supporting the women.
Cause I go back to, you know,growing up in the eighties.
The pro-life movement back then, I think, came across many ways
very hostile towards women andthat is not, I don't think
that's the way that Jesus wouldhave approached it.
You know, I believe that a babyis a new creation at conception
(02:50):
.
I think the science is prettyclear on that.
If it's not a human baby, thenwhat is it?
And I know that there's peoplewill, you know, have different
levels of comfort with.
Well, you know, we need toprotect the baby from conception
.
Six weeks, 15 weeks, you knowwhatever, Um and different, you
know, different, uniquescenarios uh, rape and incest,
(03:12):
probably the two most common and, of course, the life of the
mother, which I don't thinkthere's any mainstream person or
organization that's saying no,if a mom's life is in danger,
that she needs to just carry outthe baby.
The reality is, you can do withmodern science, we can deliver
that baby, put them in aneonatal, a NICU unit, and save
(03:35):
the life of the mother mostlikely, and also most likely
save the life of the child.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, yeah, it is.
And I think the, when it comesto this issue, people have tried
to understand what abortion isfor a long time and I think a
lot of people have madedifferent attempts.
But I think, if you look atscripture and what God would say
about the abortion issue,chiefly it's about broken
relationship.
Abortion is a failure ofcommunity and it's the
separation of the interests ofmother and child is really what
(04:03):
it is.
So you think of how abortion issold in the modern day.
It's sold by a society tellingwomen you have a choice.
You can have a future or yourchild can have a future, just
not both you pick.
It's a terrible choice.
The pro-choice position, in mymind, has become fundamentally
just a defeatist position, arecognition that well, I guess
(04:25):
we concede the best world we canimagine is a world where
mothers and children cannotthrive together.
And the pro-life positionwhether you call it pro-life or
something else, it might need anew brand, to be honest is not
only a belief that every humanlife has value and we can't take
the life of the weakest amongus.
It's important to protect them.
It's also the belief that thatvision isn't good enough.
(04:49):
The vision we need is a worldwhere motherhood can be a path
of success, no matter howsomeone's journey begins, and so
part of the work of ourorganization and our big vision
is we want to reframe whatexactly we are about as a people
that's looking to protect lifeand to help women navigate these
situations, because what we'retrying to do isn't just reduce
(05:13):
the number of abortions or endabortion.
Together, we're trying toreunify the interests of mothers
and children, and that meansmen too, which is why we're
around this, this table as wetry to lead our families, and we
were talking about this beforewe started recording that.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
You know, some people are going to look at this.
Oh, three guys sitting aroundthe table talking about abortion
.
You know, like you're trying totell women what to do, and
actually what we all discussedis that actually, no, behind
every women contemplatingabortion, there's a man who
played at least 50% of of, youknow, of the of of the women
having to make that decision.
And if, if men are the cause ofthe problem, then they're also
(05:55):
at least part of the solution.
Uh, you know, I tell people allthe time that literally we
could wipe out the need forabortion in nine months.
If, on what you know on today,if we just had a radical shift
and the values and the behaviorof men in America, then rape
(06:16):
wouldn't happen, incest wouldn'thappen and every man who slept
with a woman would decide, youknow what, if she gets pregnant,
I'm going to step up and I'mgoing to be the father and I'm
going to support her.
And so it's simplistic, becauseobviously we know that, for,
you know, 10,000 years humanshave been sinning and making
mistakes, and but the flip sideis it's actually a very simple
(06:39):
solution, right?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
You know people come from a lot of different
political backgrounds on thisissue.
Right, you know people comefrom a lot of different, uh,
political backgrounds on thisissue and we talk with people
who are very firmly entrenchedin just the feminist camp.
I think on this issue, many ofwhom resonate with our work, and
we acknowledge that.
Look, there are a lot ofreasons why people feel like
abortion is their only choice,but prevailingly the number one
reason.
When we're sitting across fromsomeone and having a
(07:01):
conversation about her futureand her goals and this child and
how they could all worktogether, the number one problem
is that she doesn't know thatshe has her support, that her
partner's support, or he wantsher to get an abortion
Prevailingly, most commonly thenumber one issue.
So, in that way, you're rightand, matt, you've spoken to this
as well in some really goodways.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah, and I think when we don't talk about men
right now, the my body, reallygood ways.
Yeah, and I think when we don'ttalk about men, um, right now,
that my body, my choice argument, it all creates a man to be
able to say is whatever youdecide, I'll support you.
And what we have found is we'vetalked with women about their,
their experiences.
What they felt is this decisionyou just placed wholly on my
shoulders and you're toocowardly.
It's not really.
You want an abortion, butyou're not not being direct with
(07:43):
it.
And so, when men aren'tinvolved, what we're not
encouraging men to do is to takeresponsibility and to be
servant leaders.
Nobody at ProChoice or ProLifeis really advocating for men to
be masculine, present voiceswith their partners.
And that doesn't just mean, hey, get the abortion, I'll support
you.
It means hey, you bringassurance to the relationship,
(08:08):
like I'm looking forward togrowing with you as we navigate
this together.
No matter what you may befeeling right now whether you're
scared, you're afraid orwhatever it may be I'm with you
right now.
So that voice of reassurance iswhat that woman likely needs.
But nobody's training men to bethere as a present voice and
(08:29):
therefore we don't know how tosupport our friends who are in
that situation.
They build a positive pressuretowards how they support that
woman.
Oftentimes I've talked to peoplewho've had abortions and that
man basically said what wealready said you have an
abortion, or sorry, my body, mychoice, and whatever you decide,
(08:51):
I'll be with you.
Like he didn't want theabortion, but he wasn't clear
with that.
And she didn't want theabortion, but she felt like he
did.
And so we don't fostercommunication.
We don't believe men have aright to be able to talk about
this with their partner andtherefore women are making
abortion decisions because theyfeel that the partner wants it
(09:13):
when they actually don't want itat all.
So one of the biggest things wecan do is just encourage men to
be supportive voices and tostate their stance, that they
are for their partner, they'refor that relationship and
they're for that raising thatchild together.
That's good.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah.
So when we talk about you know,like me growing up in the 80s
I'm you know, and I'm older thanboth of you by a few years, by
a few years In the 80s the kindof the stereotype, certainly in
I would say, kind of churchcircles, was that a good mom
(09:47):
stayed at home didn't work, andI mean that, like that was just
kind of the stereotype, like ifyou were a mom dropping your kid
off at daycare, like it waslike, oh, kind of you know the
stay-at-home moms frowned upon,uh, those mothers, and it kind
of put women into a spot.
It was either or, and my wifelikes to use this phrase that
(10:09):
she got from one of her friendsit's both and, and what I love
about all of our wives is thatthey operate in the both and,
and I think this is what Voicesfor the Voiceless does, and it's
what you're passionate about ishelping women realize this
isn't an either or.
I mean you have a dynamic wifewho's, you know, having, you
(10:30):
know she's a visionary, she's anunbelievable leader, and she's
pregnant, she's getting ready tohave her second child, and so
she's operating in the both end.
You know my wife same thing.
She's built a huge business.
She's a phenomenal speaker,she's a great leader, thousands
of people look up to her, andyet she's also an unbelievable
(10:51):
mom, and she's operating in thatboth end, and so I think that's
one of the key pivots to makeis that, if you're faced with
this challenging situation, youcan get through it, and there is
a both-and option for you, notan either-or.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
I think one of the things that's so important about
that, and one of the key valuesthat we've brought to bear in
our work, is the idea thatmotherhood can look all kinds of
ways.
There are a lot of differentways to be a good mother, and
one of the reasons I think forthat is in not just conservative
circles.
It's kind of the opinion of aprevious generation was that
motherhood should look a veryspecific way.
(11:30):
That has changed, but it'schanged in ways.
It's changed in a culture thatreally uses abortion as the way
to make it change.
So when the Dobbs decision theSupreme Court decision that
overturned Roe was argued, oneof the justices asked by what
(11:53):
right are you asking?
Are you saying that there's aright to an abortion?
He was asking the pro-abortionattorney this question.
The pro-abortion attorney saidyou know, it's not autonomy and
it's not privacy the two legalrights before it's liberty.
And the pro-abortion attorneywent to make the argument that
in the world that we live in,there was simply no way that
society could be equal and justfor women if they didn't have
(12:17):
the opportunity to have anabortion.
In other words, abortion was aprerequisite for that kind of
equality.
The issue now is that the worldthat we have to create is a
world where that kind ofequality actually exists, but
without abortion.
It's a better world to createaltogether.
Everybody should be able to getbehind this vision that no one
should have to choose betweenthe future that they see for
(12:40):
themselves and their child.
Now, of course, there areconcessions, right?
Yeah, I've known this, and whenyou know I'm a man, but when I
became a parent, everything inmy life changed dramatically.
And things do changedramatically, but you can still
have you know dreams and atrajectory to your life and be a
parent.
Have you know dreams and atrajectory to your life and be a
(13:01):
parent.
And if we're able to create aworld where you can thrive being
a mother and working and havinga business and doing these
things, in some senses we haveto prove to the world that that
is possible.
Now it is possible.
So a lot of the things thatwe've done.
One of my favorite articles thatgot sort of viral run on the
internet that we worked on wasthe story of a mother who had
bought a house in California aslike a 26-year-old financial
(13:24):
analyst who had an unexpectedpregnancy very early on, and it
got a lot of run because it justchallenged so much of people's
opinion Because, again, thatpro-choice belief is a very
limiting belief, saying ifthere's only one way to be a
good mother, you certainly can'tbe that and pursue the
different things that you wantin your life, and so it's
(13:46):
nontraditional to advocate forthis kind of thing.
But I think people, especiallypeople who are pro-life, need to
understand that's the worldthat we're actually kind of
fighting for is where that storyis heard all around the world.
It becomes the norm and itinspires a lot of people who
have great dreams and vision fortheir life, who fear that this
child is the end of that road,to actually question that doubt,
(14:11):
to doubt their doubt and to goactually.
It might be something else,given the stories of these
thousands of people who have adifferent way of going about it
and living their life it's anuncommon way to live your life
right for now.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, that's good.
So, um, we, you guys justreturned from a whirlwind trip
over to southeast asia, right,the philippines and indonesia,
correct?
Okay, so talk about what youwere doing there and kind of
what the landscape of life anddeath looks like outside of the
(14:48):
United States.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
So the reason why we were there is, as an
organization, we're trying toaddress the root causes of
abortion, meaning those triggersthat cause a lot of people to
feel like abortion is their onlychoice.
And as an organization, we callit.
If you're familiar with thebook, blue Ocean Strategy, we're
constantly looking for blueocean.
So we're not trying to redo amodel that someone else has
(15:10):
already done or compete in aspace where there's someone else
doing something.
We've realized this is a reallyimportant time in the life
space to be doing that, becausethere's so much that needs to
get done and there are manyurgent problems that
pro-abortion advocates havetaken advantage of and that
pro-life advocates don't evenknow what's going on.
(15:30):
So one of the most significantdevelopments has been the effort
to colonize abortion, inessence around the world, the
United States being the greatestdefender of this, with the
Gates Foundation and othersusing US aid and different aid
funding programs to try torequire that different countries
around the world legalizeabortion in order to get access
(15:53):
to the help that they need andthe basic services.
In the two countries we went,abortion is not legal In
Indonesia.
It's legal through 14 weeks,but only in the case of rape In
the Philippines.
Philippines has a constitutionalprovision that protects life
from conception, which is veryunique, but in both countries,
(16:14):
and especially the Philippines,the organizations that are
trying to spread abortion allaround the world and therefore
create cultures and societiesthat become dependent on
abortion to thrive.
Those organizations are alreadyoperating in those places,
public opinion among their youngpeople is already shifting and
while most people in thosecountries feel like the law will
(16:35):
never change, we remind themwhat happened in Ireland just a
few years ago, which Ireland wasa Catholic country through and
through, where two-thirds of itspopulation was strongly
pro-life.
The same thing happened.
The same people came in andthey created a blueprint and
five years later Ireland, with atwo-thirds majority and 85% of
its young people, legalizedabortion, and it'll be very hard
(16:59):
to overturn the differentthings involved with that.
Now we're not a politicalorganization, but one of the
things we realize is that all ofthe cultural things we don't
like, that abortion causes, thatfeeling that women have to
choose between their job andtheir child, and so many other
things that abortion does in oursociety.
They happened after Roe, afterRoe was handed down, and so many
(17:19):
other things that abortion doesin our society.
They happened after Roe, afterRoe was handed down, and it
almost gave our societypermission to be completely
dependent on abortion as a falsesolution to any of its problems
.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Basically birth control.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Exactly, yeah, yeah, and now.
So these countries areextremely vulnerable to this
happening.
The same people are going thereand we're creating a strategy
to do what we can to supportefforts in those countries to
actually fortify their churchesso they're able to communicate
the pro-life position winsomely,and to create strategies to
(17:54):
reach the next generation that'salready being reached by
different forces that want toforce abortion beyond the West
into these countries.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
You know and there is a thought of a leadership
generation that we're a pro-lifenation.
We'll always be pro-life.
So we had one meeting with anational leader and he was
telling us we'll always bepro-life, this isn't something
we have to be concerned about,and immediately we're so always
be pro-life.
This isn't something we have tobe concerned about, and
immediately we're ushereddownstairs into the Senate
hearing where a woman wasadvocating from the Senate floor
(18:26):
hey, we need to pass nationalcomprehensive sex education.
And the language she used wasthe same language that I've been
experienced with.
I've sat on a sex educationreview board for a school
district.
It was the same language ofPlanned Parenthood in that
nation.
We realized that the ideas beingpresented weren't native to the
Filipino culture.
(18:47):
It was exported from the UnitedStates or from Western
influence, and so what we'redoing is we're helping people to
wake up to say look, there arepeople who have a plan for your
culture and your nation thatdoesn't match your cultural
values and that, while yourvalues today are one thing, that
young people are beingpersuaded into another way of
thinking, and it's yourresponsibility as parents, as
(19:09):
families, as institutions tosecure those values and to
explain why these are yourvalues.
Don't take them for granted.
When we take things for granted, we become overly familiar,
like those in Ireland.
I think it's possible thatthere is a light pro-life view
and ethic that wasn't deepenough when it was challenged.
We want to make sure that thereis a depth to the pro-life
(19:30):
position that penetrates so inthe day and it's coming when
it's challenged that theFilipinos can rise to that
challenge.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
So we are talking about the fact that America has
exported obesity to the rest ofthe world through our processed
food.
I was just listening to aTucker Carlson podcast yesterday
and today with some medicalprofessionals just talking about
our polluted food sources and,you know, through processed food
(20:07):
, fast food, you know we areexporting obesity everywhere in
the world and we're now kind ofthe exporter of a culture of
death, really, and kind of themaybe naivete of the leaders in
other countries to think that,you know, we'll always be
(20:28):
pro-life.
There's a saying I can'tremember who's responsible for
it, but that things happengradually, then suddenly, and
you talk about, like Ireland,right, it was gradual and then
it was very sudden.
And really, when you look atsome of the institutions that
are have pushed, you knowabortion on demand essentially
(20:49):
like this was a multi-decadeplay, it just it didn't happen
overnight.
Like the amount of strategy andpatience it took to get to where
we're at now is actually it's,it's.
It's admirable because, like,if, if, if the rest of us put
that much strategy and patienceand consistency to all the other
(21:13):
positive goals that we have inour life, we'd be wildly
successful.
How do you see impacting theseother countries, like what is in
place to potentially keep themfrom going down the road, the
slippery slope that the US is on.
Or like what are some of thethings that you, that you were
trying to accomplish while youwere overseas?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I think there are a few really significant
opportunities Now.
Some of these countries,especially the Philippines, is a
really highly Christian country.
I think it's like 85% Catholic.
In the end, one of the reallygreat voices to the culture
comes from the church.
In the United States we talkabout the importance of the
church communicating something,but it doesn't have near the
same influence that it wouldhave there, and so we're
(21:59):
contemplating and working withdifferent church leaders to go.
How can we actually bring in orwelcome in a training on the
ethic of life?
so that people can deepen andhave deep rootedness to why they
believe what they believe whenit's challenged, and so that
different things can happen thatare really critical.
(22:21):
Kevin, I'll tell you this, it'snot as if either country
doesn't have abortions today.
They do.
They just come by a differentway.
They go through secret routes.
There are witch doctors anddifferent things like that
Meaning.
In those churches, too, thereare people that need healing,
and because those are countrieswhere this topic is a little
more taboo, at least for today,that healing is often never.
(22:44):
There's no real path to get it.
So you know, that's one of themost critical.
God can have a deep rootednesswhen it's challenged, so that
they can stick with it.
So that's one of the leadingthings that we're doing.
(23:06):
We're also just building acoalition of different leaders
in the country to have aconversation on what can be done
to increase pregnancy supportand different strategic efforts
to shape the next generation,Because I think, as we look at
these cultures, these arecultures that profoundly value
family like we don't in theUnited.
States we could hardly relate toor even aspire to, and it's a
(23:30):
really beautiful thing.
So in the Philippines I sat downwith about 40 different college
students and youngprofessionals to ask them what
they thought about the issue ofabortion and to just really be
curious.
Where were the reviews comingfrom?
How were they developed?
About 70% of them were stronglypro-choice, but many of them
(23:51):
affirmed a very close connectionto their family.
They may not share the views oftheir family, but their family
is very important and I think ina culture like that you have
certain opportunities that youdon't have here, because in some
ways we've lost that here, andthe ability to have kind of a
communal reawakening or a deeprootedness on an issue is there
(24:13):
that isn't here.
We have to be superindividualistic in the way we go
about it.
So I would say those are theemphases what we can do in the
church, what we can do to shapethe minds of the next generation
and how we can create anon-ramp for healing for those
who deal with it today, as wellas more support.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Yeah, and I think creating from the beginning the
narrative of the double win,that the win for a mom and child
, and so we can look back fromsome of our mistakes in the life
movement in the US, like in the80s when you saw that it was
pro baby but not pro mom we canhave that narrative from the
beginning and training leadersnot just why abortion is wrong
but why family matters, why whymotherhood matters and casting a
(24:53):
better view and vision of humanflourishing is that's what we
think abortion erodes, is humanflourishing.
That's what we think abortionerodes, is human flourishing.
We don't believe that itanswers life's deepest questions
about significance and purpose.
We believe that churches cancast that holistic vision and
also help redefine what successis.
I think for those who areChristian, their view of success
(25:14):
can't just be Westernmaterialism.
Success can't just be Westernmaterialism.
And so they can strengthen thefamily values but also Christian
values of self-sacrifice, ofbeing a good Samaritan.
So if you do find someone who'sin this situation, your first
instinct is love and compassionand to come alongside.
We believe a lot of that is inthe culture, but when it's taboo
(25:36):
that the people who arecreating these conversations are
people we don't believe havethe best interest of mothers and
children.
So we're helping to proactivelytalk about these things for the
love of God and for the serviceof the families that are
involved in these churches.
And the churches aren't justcongregations, they touch every
sector of society.
Congregations they touch everysector of society.
(25:57):
So, when people are equippedwith the life ethic, if you're a
business leader and the womenin your business feel like they
have to choose between theirfuture or their child's future,
there might be some invisiblethings that business leaders are
doing or not doing that maysupport or inhibit that woman's
decision for life, if she has it.
And so we don't believe thatit's just an intellectual belief
(26:20):
about life.
We believe that this hasreal-world consequences in the
way that we run our lives, notjust on Sundays, but Monday
through Saturday.
We hope that cultural leaders,people of influence, leverage
their influence to help themothers in their lives, or
potential mothers.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
That's good.
How do you see us making theshift here in the United States?
I mean, obviously there'sthere's really a big divide, but
even there's just so manydifferent opinions among church
leaders, and even you knowpeople who claim to be
christians.
(26:54):
As far as abortion, um, how dowe become more um life
sustaining, like once abortionis isn't the solution, right,
it's really a symptom.
So how do we become more lifesustaining in America?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Well, you said something already, Kevin, that
we, that that people who arepro-abortion and those who are
leading the charge are thinkingdecades down the road.
So oftentimes when we thinkabout pro-life, it's always this
election cycle and it's verynear term.
The thing that doesn't happenwhen you're thinking near term
is new ideas and new solutionsthat can change the world 10 and
(27:36):
20 years from now.
So getting business minds andgetting people who aren't just
led by the urgency of the momentand looking at the future
that's a part of it is gettingsome of those leaders in the
life movement together toconsider the long-term good
we're at this head, and that'stypically not the conversation.
As far as the public narrativeof the life movement, it tends
(27:58):
to be very reactive and verythis election cycle Now, rather
than thinking four, five, sixelection cycles in the future.
What are people going to befacing?
What are they going to bethinking?
How do we reach the demand forabortion and the feeling that
abortion is my only option?
I think the only way we getthere is by thinking long term
about it.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, and you asked what can be done.
How do we actually create thisculture?
I think it starts with we haveto identify what the root causes
of abortion are, and then wehave to create strategies high
ROI business strategies toaddress those things.
So I'll give you a few examplesof the problems that need to be
addressed.
One of the leading causes ofabortion in 10 or 20 years it's
(28:45):
not a leading cause today, butit will be in 10 or 20 years is
the way prenatal diagnoses arepresented to patients.
Prenatal diagnosis is atechnology.
It will be able to detect moreand more things that are
imperfect about an individualprenatally and as that number of
things expands, what we haveright now is a huge gap in
(29:06):
physician education.
Currently, there is nophysician education on how to
present a prenatal diagnosis,and it means that so many
families including familieslistening to this have been told
at one time or another it lookslike your child is going to
have this condition.
Here's how many days you haveleft to decide by which the
physician meant to have anabortion and put a rush and a
(29:26):
timer on the situation.
That's why 67% of pregnancieswith Down syndrome are aborted
and why 84% of pregnancies withspina bifida are aborted because
of the way those diagnoses arepresented.
The only way to address that isyou have to change that
presentation.
So one of the things that weare considering doing and we've
made a lot of progress in thiswe have a strategy around the
(29:47):
country to try to shape the waythose diagnoses are presented by
training the next generation ofphysicians to present it
differently.
So that's one example.
Another example would be when itcomes to businesses.
You might have realized thatafter Roe is overturned, about
200 of the biggest corporationsin the United States said, even
if they didn't have any policyto provide for someone's
(30:09):
maternity leave, that they wouldfund their out-of-state
abortion.
And the reason they did that isit's a lot cheaper for them to
fund an out-of-state abortionthan it is to pay for someone's
maternity leave.
But that kind of corporateculture it's what we have in the
United States.
It's completely dependent onabortion and it's why so many
women feel like that double winis completely unachievable for
them, or why they're making achoice between stay at home, mom
(30:31):
or business executive that hasto have as many abortions as it
takes to move up the ladder.
That's not an acceptable thingand the only way it can change
is by raising up the nextgeneration of business leaders
who will think about itdifferently, who will provide
flexible benefits to people andwho will create a culture that
shuts down gossip when someone'spregnant.
(30:52):
It's very important for that totake place as well.
Now there's a list of otherthings.
We have a sort of a map with abunch of different strategies
and things that need to be donefor the long term, but really, I
think the only way we're goingto change public opinion in the
long term this isn't just a gamewhere we've got to get more
people to agree with us thanagree with them.
(31:12):
The truth is, there are way toomany people in our culture today
who feel like abortion's theironly choice, because they're
victims to a culture that's beendependent on abortion for a
long time, and the only way tosolve that is to uproot those
institutions and systematicreasons why people are facing
that and to make motherhood apath of success for people.
(31:33):
That's going to beuncomfortable for a lot of
policymakers, business owners,et cetera.
They're all going to have tomake sacrifices and do things a
more difficult way than they doit now, but that's kind of part
of what it means to havechildren, and abortion is a
failure of community, becausethe only way to really have a
community that values childrenis if we all do that.
(31:56):
Children require slowing down,they require sacrifice, but
they're our most preciousresource, so it's worth it.
We just don't have a societythat functions that way right
now.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
So if you're a business owner or you're an
employer of any type, you couldbe a church right, a large
church with the big staff ofwhich many are females, and you
say you're pro-life.
Yet when you find out that oneof your employees is pregnant
and your first thought is, ohcrap, we're going to lose all
(32:28):
this productivity.
Thought is oh crap, we're goingto lose all this productivity.
Yeah, like this is where youactually get to put your money
where your mouth is right.
Agree.
You say, hey, how can wesupport you?
We're here and obviously youknow everything.
There's always people that willabuse you, know every possible
policy and things like that, butthose are the exceptions, yeah,
and so the reality is as abusiness owner, as an employer,
(32:50):
how can you gather around andcreate that life affirming
community for women who arepregnant?
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yes, and we can provide you a blueprint for how
to do that.
But, honestly, it's more of agut check thing.
Yeah, it's more most people arefamiliar with.
Your family is more importantthan your job right, and that
being generally good advice tofollow, right, but do you
believe that the families of thepeople who work for you are
also more important than yourcompany or organization?
(33:17):
If you do, it's going to takesacrifice, but you can be to be
honest.
For companies that do thisright now, they are a shining
beacon.
They are a place women want towork, who want to have a long,
fruitful career for themselves,because they realize that this
company isn't asking me tosacrifice all of the dreams I
(33:37):
have for my family that are very, very real and present.
It can work in the best interestof companies that are willing
to see it that way.
But that takes sacrifice, Ithink, in the culture that we
have right now.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah, that's good.
That's good.
So how can people learn moreabout Voices for the Voiceless?
If there's someone listeningwho has either had an abortion
you know I mean obviously Ithink the statistics about one
in three people has beenaffected by abortion.
So it's either you know a manwho's you know talked or coerced
his wife or girlfriend intohaving an abortion, or it's a
(34:10):
woman who's had one.
What resources do you recommendfor people that want to find
healing from that?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yeah Well, go to VoicesForTheVoicelessorg and you
can connect with us there.
If this is your story, let mesay this I haven't been through
an abortion personally, but mywhole story was changed up by
one.
So when I was 16, I startedVoices for the Voiceless.
I had just met Jesus.
I was a sort of arabble-rousing political
(34:37):
activist and for three years ledthis sort of growing movement.
And then my mom sat me down onthe couch and said hey, I've got
to tell you something that noone knows, but I just need you
to know.
And she told me about when shewas 19,.
She was pregnant.
She was in this relationshipshe hoped would last, and she
knew only one thing, and thatwas that if her dad found out
(35:00):
about it and if the communityfound out about it, her
relationship would be over andher family's reputation would be
tarnished completely.
And so she went to PlannedParenthood and they said you can
go to this hospital and get anabortion discreetly and no one
will have to know.
And so she did, and she hoped itwas over, kevin.
And two days later she startedbleeding everywhere.
(35:21):
She had to be rushed back tothe hospital.
Her worried parents came andvisited her and she managed to
conceal it and then, a weeklater, an insurance bill came in
the mail describing hercondition, mailed to her dad.
She found it in the mail.
My 19 year old mother marchedback to the hospital and talked
to a medical review board aboutwhy no one was allowed to find
(35:42):
out about this and why theyneeded to change the bill.
so they did they sent her homewith a bill that said bleeding
from an irregular period.
Change the bill.
So they did.
They sent her home with a billthat said bleeding from an
irregular period and my mom'slife kind of fell apart after
that.
Eventually she met Jesus andthere was this redemption story
and 30 years later I waspressing against this wound that
I had no idea existed and itforever changed the way I think
(36:05):
about this issue, not from justjustice, which was my only lens
to view it, but from the lens ofseparation and a failure of
community.
There are people like my mom whofelt like abortion was their
only choice and that needed tobe addressed, but also to
realize I've been approached bya fair number of people who've
walked up to me since then andhave gone hey, I heard your
(36:28):
story.
It sounds like your mom foundquite a bit of healing by
confessing that to you, and it'strue.
And so I think part of myministry is really being able to
help people whose kids don'tknow that they're missing a
sibling or a member of theirfamily to realize that it is
(36:51):
worth it to tell them that.
It is healing to tell them thatand it's part of their
children's identity, whetherthey know it or not, and it
became a great activator in mylife, a way that shaped how I
viewed so many things and howpeople got healed.
And so, kevin, I'd say the mainthing is people are welcome to
reach out to me too, and I'veconnected people with my mom or
(37:15):
even just with me to talk aboutthe importance of sharing that
information with your kids,because I think it is important.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
I think that Josiah had a TED Talk where he shared
this and his mom was the frontrow, but there have been
thousands of people who've beenministered to because of her
story.
So I think, for people who arelistening, where they've had an
abortion or they've encouragedone, when we reconcile that
experience with God, I thinkthat we may not anticipate how
God might use that healing inother people's lives.
(37:44):
When it's something we want tostuff and then we bring shame
and guilt, mold grows in thedark.
But when we can confess thatfind healing in Jesus, which is
totally available, he doesn'tstop there.
He uses it to redeem otherpeople's stories, even if it's
just behind the scenes,one-on-one, and so people who
are listening, I think, need tofind someone.
(38:06):
Ideally, that's churchcommunity, ideally as well.
I know we're working ontraining churches on how to talk
about this with sensitivity,tact and how to create a culture
that is life-affirming andlife-affirming for those who've
had abortions to come out of thedarkness into the light as well
.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah, because the last thing we want to do is make
people feel condemned yeah thedevil already does that, enough,
um, and the guilt that mostpeople feel after having an
abortion is going to do that.
So we want to just provide ahealing, safe space for them and
their stories.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
I mean, god uses those stories because somebody
who's found healing is someonewho has had to wrestle head on
with the pain yeah, it wasn'tjust a pregnancy loss, it was a
loss of a person, and so you cango to a secular counselor and
they can address, hey, what theloss of the pregnancy might have
affected you maybe thecircumstances around but as
(38:59):
pro-life people, we have theonly solution, which is this is
a loss of a life, and some ofthe impact you're feeling is
that there's a person that's nolonger with you.
And so we can help that personnavigate that, find forgiveness
in Jesus which it is aforgiveness issue, but then also
to grieve that person and to beable to celebrate that life.
And so churches ideally are setup to point towards a path of
(39:23):
healing, which is forgivenessand it's grieving, and it then
leads to a place of transparency.
I remember asking a woman whatwas it like before and after you
found healing from abortion?
And she immediately said, matt,I was able to minister out of
my brokenness before, but nowI'm able to minister out of my
healing.
Those stories, I think, arecommon.
When people find healing, itdoesn't just affect one area of
(39:45):
life.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yeah, that's so good, awesome.
Well, hey guys, and to those ofyou watching and listening,
beck and I we support Voices forthe Voiceless.
We're grateful for the workthat you guys do.
We believe in it.
We just love the fact that youtake that blue ocean strategy
because you know pregnancyresource centers they serve a
huge value and purpose, but thelandscape is changing and the
(40:12):
reality is, especially with theabortion pill I think last year
was, I think 63% in 2023 ofabortions happened basically
through the mail is how theabortion was ordered and then
the woman delivered her baby,you know, typically under the
toilet, in her bathroom, and sothat's totally different than it
used to be, once again in the80s, 90s and even, just you know
, probably not even 10 years ago, probably five years ago.
(40:33):
So we love what you guys aredoing and you know my wife Becca
is just you know she lovesAndrea and is just passionate
really about helping womenrealize that they can live in
that both and I love theProverbs 31 woman.
I feel like I'm married to one.
I think we all probably feellike we're married to one.
(40:54):
None of our wives are at homebarefoot and pregnant, which was
kind of the stereotype of thegood Christian mother back in
the 80s when I was growing upthat's not the Proverbs 31 woman
.
She was industrious, she wastaking care of her family.
She was industrious, she was,she was taking care of her
family.
She was, you know, supportingher husband.
She was, she was making things.
(41:14):
She was, you know, involved inthe economy of the household and
she lived in the both end.
And that's really what you guysare all about.
So I will link your TED Talk inthe show notes so people can
find that.
I totally forgot about that,but I have watched that and it's
very powerful.
So thank you for sharing thatstory.
Guys, thanks for being here.
I appreciate you taking timeout of your busy schedules and I
(41:36):
know we'd love to have Andreaon as well at some point, just
so we can hear that woman'sperspective and Becca will join
me for that one as well.
But, guys, keep up the goodwork.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Thanks.
Thank you, Kevin.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
All right, friends.
Please subscribe to the podcastfor more insights on blending
entrepreneurship and theentrepreneurial mindset with
intentional living.
You can follow us on socialmedia.
We are on Instagram, primarily,and Facebook, and you're going
to find daily tips andinspiration from us there.
You'll also find us on YouTubelots of shorts as well as our
video podcast.
(42:18):
And then please, if you enjoythis podcast, please leave us a
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