56. Homeschool Roots, Global Vision: Patricia Lewis on Building a Life of Learning

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Rebecca, and this is Naomi.
We're 40-something moms andfirst cousins who know what it's
like to veer off the pathassigned to us.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
We've juggled motherhood, marriage, college
and career, as we questioned ourfaith traditions while
exploring new identities andways of seeing the world.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Without any maps for either of us to follow.
We've had to figure things outas we go and appreciate that
detours and dead ends areessential to the path Along the
way, we've uncovered a fewinsights we want to share with
fellow travelers.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
We want to talk about the questions we didn't know
who to ask and the options wedidn't know we had.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
So whether you're feeling stuck or already shaking
things up.
We are here to cheer you on andassure you that the best is yet
to come.
Welcome to Uncovered.
Life Beyond.
Hello everyone, Welcome back toUncovered Life Beyond.

(01:08):
This is Naomi.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
And this is Rebecca with our dear friend Trisha.
I know you guys are all excitedthat we have her back on.
It's like this bonus and we arethrilled to have you again,
trish.
Thank you so very much.
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
So this all got started when Rebecca got a
message from Trisha right.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yeah, so this is why you guys should absolutely be
messaging us your questions andyour thoughts and, honestly, it
is so fun to receive messagesfrom you all because I love
having conversations andthrowing around ideas.
And when you guys messaged it'slike just a continuation of the

(01:56):
conversation, and Triciamessaged me some really amazing
insightful ideas, questions,thoughts, and I'm screenshotting
Naomi and I'm like, yes, yes,we need to talk about this.
And Naomi says we need toinvite her to the podcast and I
said, yes, we do so, keepbringing on the questions.

(02:20):
It's so much fun because, Imean, you know, Naomi and I can
talk all day, but it's alwaysfun to have new ideas and new
insights and we so appreciateyou doing this with us.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
Oh, thank you.
Good to be here, Naomi andRebecca.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
So today we're going to be talking more about your
educational background and kindof how that all started, and I
know that in many ways we willmany of us will identify with
parts of your story and we'reexcited to hear all about that.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Thanks, Trisha.
I think your initial messagesto Rebecca were about grad
school and we want to talk aboutthat, but my first thought when
she shared the message with mewas I just have so many
questions to even begin talkingabout grad school and grad

(03:25):
school funding specifically.
And then part of our thoughttoo is that you've had the
experience of being raisedconservative Mennonite and then
finding your way to college andbeyond, and so that kind of
trailblazing experience is somuch in line with what we talk

(03:45):
about here, and so I think itwould be really, it could be
really valuable for ourlisteners to hear your story.
So why don't you tell us aboutyour educational journey?
And and then we'll get into thegrad school funding question?

Speaker 4 (04:03):
Okay, I mean, my educational journey started,
like a lot of kids, with, youknow, elementary education.
I started in public school andI went for, I think it was two
years and kind of reallyexcelled.
But my parents I mean this waslong enough ago, homeschooling
was fairly new and my parentsheard about it and so they
actually pulled me and my sisterout and then they homeschooled

(04:25):
all of the rest of us.
So I was homeschooled.
I was homeschooled using theChristian light education
materials which I think you guysreferred to on earlier podcasts
before, but they're they'relike you're supposed to be able
to read it and do all the workyourself.
And yeah, it's, it's self-paced, which basically means as fast
as you can read it and answerthe questions, which I did great

(04:51):
with that, because reading isalways something I'm good at.
I did great with that up untilI started working in my dad's
business and then it kind of wasone of those where the work was
more valued than education.
I think Not that educationwasn't at all, but that wasn't,

(05:17):
I don't know.
It was kind of that had to kindof balance the two workbooks
and all that.
But when it came to what Iactually like, learned and
helped me when I got to college.
It was.
It was all the books I read,and I read, I read voraciously
ever since first grade.
So that that's honestly kind ofwhere it went for me.
So I kind of had a and I don'twant to say traditional path,

(05:40):
because it wasn't the.
You know, I didn't graduate fromhigh school and go on to
college like a lot of people did, because I was homeschooled and
it was new.
Yeah, that was actually kind ofmy own determination and I'm
going to be honest, I don't knowwhy I decided to go to college.
I just knew.
I don't remember not wanting togo and I also knew that that

(06:03):
was usually what people didafter high school.
So that was just what I planned.
It was hard when I was, youknow, supposedly in high school.
I had these high schoolworkbooks that I wasn't getting
done very well.
The math was really hard.
I struggled with understandingmath by reading it, and then,
you know, that was just hard forme.
I never, I didn't do well withit.

(06:24):
So I ended up kind of the longstory short.
I had public school friends andthey told me about the ACT,
which was a college entranceexam.
So I said, oh well, I want togo to college, so I'm going to
take it.
So they picked up anapplication at school?

Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah question Did you do the ACT without getting your
GED?

Speaker 4 (06:43):
I did the ACT junior year, like most people do,
because I had friends who workedat the restaurant who were
taking it that year and whenthey told me about it I was like
, oh well, I should take that ohmy gosh.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Okay, so you were still okay.
That makes sense that you wouldtake that at that time in your
junior year, yeah, that at thattime in your junior year, yeah,
and, and I don't want to.
If I'm jumping ahead, then thenjust stick to it.
But, um, did you, were youstill able to finish high school
at, uh, like on schedule orbecause?

(07:16):
Because what you're talkingabout there's very familiar, and
I say that not not from my ownexperience, but, like I know, I
have family members where theywere supposedly going to do high
school and there was justalways something else that
needed to be done.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, I mean it kind of came
down to yes, I do Very much.
So I kind of came down to Iturned 18.
And I wanted to go to collegeand I'd taken the ACT and been
accepted in colleges.
So once I turned 18, I went tothe local I don't know the adult
education center and I toldthem I wanted to take my GED and

(07:51):
I in order, and I can'tremember how it worked.
I had to do like some kind ofstudy thing and if I did the
study thing I could take the GEDfor free for the one time.
Like I got one shot at it forfree and I was like, oh, okay,
that's cool Because, yeah, I'lldo this study thing and get it.
So I never did.
I'll be honest, for years incollege, maybe even after, I

(08:13):
felt a little like an imposterbecause I was I was a high
school dropout I never finishedthose workbooks.
For years I actually had themso that if I ever like, if I
ever wanted to, I could, youknow, actually go back and learn
them.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
That's the stuff of dreams like, I mean, like bad
dreams Waking up and learning.
Oh, your, your college degreehas been revoked because it
turns out you didn't finish highschool.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yes, Well, the other thing, the other thing that I
think is kind of interesting andit's kind of a sidebar, but I
also think it's kind ofimportant.
I have a lot of not positivethings to say about CLE, but for
those of us that it kind ofworked for, I think it taught us

(08:56):
how to be fiercely independentand how to figure it out, Like
almost independent, to a fault.
And for those who it didn'twork for, it was horrible and I
I I am so sorry about that.
Like it's it's.
It's a bad setup, but, but Iexcelled and it fed my

(09:18):
independence and I learned howto just figure it out, and I
kind of hear you saying that toolearned how to just figure it
out, and I kind of hear yousaying that too.

Speaker 4 (09:31):
I definitely figured stuff out and yeah, it's funny
because at the time it was justI want to go to college.
So anytime if I'm honest, itwas anytime my friends who were
working at my dad's restaurantwere telling me what they were
doing at school to get ready forcollege.
I'd be like, okay, I want to dothat too, and I kind of that's
kind of just what I did.
So I took the ACT and then,when I turned 18, I got my GED
because I was accepted atcolleges.
But of course that requiredsome kind of graduation and I

(09:53):
was like, even if I had finishedall of the workbooks I mean,
cle does give a diploma if yougo through their program but it
wasn't like I'm in Ohio and it'snot an Ohio diploma and I was
like I don't know that that'sgoing to work.
So if I'm going to have to dothe GED anyway, maybe this is it
is.
In some ways I'm like this is areally bad example for others.

(10:13):
But I was like I'm going tohave to get my GED anyway.
So why?
Why do the you know, the extrabooks when I can pass the GED, I
can get there.
I'm already accepted intocollege.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, so that's what I did.
Good for you.

Speaker 4 (10:26):
I was like I don't and I mean, yeah, so I just quit
doing schoolwork, I went andgot my GED and I went to college
.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
That's okay, that's awesome.
Did you have any concern thatthat you were ready for college
or not, that you know that youwere prepared, that you could do
the work?
And I guess the no, no, no, no,no, no, no.
Look, I'm not, I'm notquestioning what?

Speaker 3 (10:51):
which?

Speaker 2 (10:51):
you did Because, like I, I remember, I remember the
stories, but I guess what I'msaying is I know that there's so
many of us who experienced somelevel of self doubt, even if we
want to go to college, and I'mgonna- guess that whatever the
results of your GED were, thatmust have given you some
confidence.
The results I'm guessing yougot must have given you some

(11:12):
confidence.
But I guess I'm also curious,kind of in that same vein on
what basis were you accepted tothose colleges?

Speaker 3 (11:22):
Well, and I don't think it's been, I don't think
it's been said, and maybe anassumption is made at this point
, but you were a first genstudent right, yeah, my parents
hadn't been to college.

Speaker 4 (11:33):
They both had high school diplomas.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
Okay, because I don't think that was stated at this
point yet.
So I just wanted to clarifythat.

Speaker 4 (11:39):
Right, yeah, yeah, I didn't have my parents who'd
been there before helping mefigure it out, but and that
makes a difference it does.
So the reason.
I'm going to be honest I wasn'textremely.
I wasn't extremely concernedwith my readiness, but it was
partly because when I took thatACT test, I did better than any
of my friends did.

(12:01):
I had a friend who was in thehonors course at a local
university.
Yeah, I think his score was acouple points lower than mine,
and so I was like cool, so okay,so I can handle this If he can
be in the honors courses.
And he told me he's like if youdid that, you need to be in the
honors courses.
And then we had discussionsabout books and stuff.

(12:22):
And he's like, yeah, you'regood.
So I had that stuff.
And he's like, yeah, this isyou're good.
So I had that feedback.
And then I mean the GED I didwell enough, I got a scholarship
.
It wasn't huge, but I got ascholarship for college through
that too, so awesome.
I mean, looking back on it, Idon't regret it at all Because,
yeah, that helped, that helpedwith the scholarships and paying
for it.
So I had.
I also got some academicscholarships because of that

(12:45):
that score.
But the reason I said that itwas a really good question was
because I did have feedback.
My mom, who was in charge of myhomeschooling and knew that I
had basically just not beendoing the work.
She said I'm, I'm concernedthat, not that you're not smart
enough, but I'm concerned youdon't have like that, you don't

(13:05):
have the discipline and youdon't have the.
You know I don't have, I don'tknow if you have what it takes
and I'm worried aboutessentially you going and
spending all this money and youknow what are you going to do if
it, if it doesn't go well, I'mjust stubborn enough that my mom
saying that to me made me bound, like I was bound and
determined that I was going toprove her 100% wrong.

(13:26):
And I mean I did.
But I think that characteristicof myself was probably one of
the reasons that I did do welland, as silly as it might sound,
her pushback a little bit of,and I mean she had reasons for
it.
I did struggle keeping up withall of the bookwork at home.
I did struggle keeping up withall of the book work at home,
doing it in that method.
School's different, college wastotally different.

(13:49):
And I did not struggle.
But I also understand where shewas coming from.
She didn't know anything else.
She hadn't been to college toknow how different it was.
So I kind of I want to give hera little grace in that that I
think her question and concernwere I think they were at least
reasonable for what she knew.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
I think we should pause, though, and just point
out and this I'm reallyconcerned about this, as, as we
keep getting rid of immigrants,I'm seeing more and more
attempts to pass laws that kidscan be hired younger and for

(14:29):
working, to work longer hours,and I cringe and I actually want
to cry a little bit about it.
Mm, hmm, let's be honest abouthow hard it is to go through
high school and be working andsupporting your family.
Like, let's be real, and Idon't believe in shaming anybody

(14:54):
, but I will shame someone whovotes to pass those laws.
I mean, talk about perpetuatingthe system of poverty.
Like, let's be real.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
And let's be real that the people making those
policies are darn sure makingsure their kids don't have to
work through high school andthey're making sure their kids,
their own kids, are going tocollege and getting those
liberal arts degrees that theydenigrate.

Speaker 4 (15:22):
Yeah, no, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
They want, they want other people's kids working Well
and they're benefiting.
They're benefiting off ofhaving the poor kid work for
them.

Speaker 4 (15:30):
Yeah, yes, that's true.
And, to be fair, I was workingpretty close to full-time, if
not full-time, for most of myhigh school years.
Yeah, I look at that and I'mlike a teenager working
full-time, being expected to dobook work too, when I look at
what I did in college, because Ikind of did that in college too

(15:51):
, because I paid most of it as Iwent and I went to a private
university, so I wasn't justgoing the cheapest route, but I
had the advantage of our familywasn't extremely rich and I was
the oldest of eight kids.
So I got some of the grants andI had academic scholarships.
It's huge, it's a really bigdeal to get those and that

(16:11):
covered that covered somewherebetween half and two thirds,
depending on the year and howmany credits I took.
So then I didn't have as muchof it to cover, but I did.
I also worked during college.
So, like it's a really mixedbag for me, because that work,
that work ethic that I, yeah, Ideveloped and I have still have
a good work ethic it helped me,but it also led to me not doing

(16:37):
great in high school.
It did.
That is why I didn't finish upmy high school work Right.
So yeah, it's, it isn't good.
I would not want.
In fact, I've told my kids theydon't need to work during
college or during school.
College might be differentduring school.
If they are, you know, if theywant to, that's one thing, but

(16:57):
it's not.
They don't have to to help afamily, the family out, because
I know how hard that was on me.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
And I wasn't able to do.
Well, and I think that'ssomething that a lot of well,
first generation immigrants, butalso I think that's the Amish,
conservative, mennoniteexperience is that the
expectation is that kids aregoing to help out the parents
and they're going to give moneyhome, send money home, and
they're going to give money homeor send money home, and high
school is an option if there areno obstacles, but it's the

(17:32):
bottom of the list and I know Imean that's why you weren't
getting your work done, notbecause you didn't have the
drive.
It's such a familiar scenario,I think.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
And it's such a familiar scenario, but it's also
such a unfair isn't even theright word.
It's a double bind Like how areyou going to win at that?

Speaker 2 (17:56):
Right, because it's the older generations
expectations that are settingthat they're preparing you for a
different world than the worldthey lived in, and so it's like
we're being set up withexpectations, we're being set up
with the education for aprevious generation, but then
we're going to have to find ourway in the world we actually

(18:18):
live in and then, if you make it, you're applauded for pulling
yourself up by the bootstraps,which is bullshit applauded for
pulling yourself up by thebootstraps, which is bullshit.
So, tricia, I'd love to hearabout how you chose, the college
you chose, and just kind of thenitty gritty of kind of how you
got there.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
What was that?

Speaker 2 (18:37):
process like.
What was the process like?
Because I think for folks whohave always known they're going
to college or you know thefamily expected them to, we know
we have more or less an idea ofwhat that process looks like.
But for those of us who areinterested but have no idea how
to get there, you know it's justkind of.
You know we don't have thatguidance counselor at school

(19:00):
that's telling us what to donext, right, so?
Or parents bugging us to fillout applications or whatever it
is.
So I know for myself it was amatter of just doing.
Well, I guess next thing Okay,now, what do I do next?
Now, what do I do next?
You know at every step of theprocess.
But I would love to hear howdid you choose the school you

(19:21):
ended up at and what was thatprocess like?

Speaker 4 (19:24):
Okay, so I really didn't know a lot about schools
at that point, but once you takethe ACT you tend to get a lot
of mailers, especially fromprivate universities.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
Especially if your grades, especially if your score
is like Trisha's was.

Speaker 4 (19:41):
Yeah, maybe that might make a difference.
I mean my, my son, just well,he took his and he's gotten like
so much mail.
I'm like I don't remember itbeing quite so overwhelming then
, but it may have been.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Oh, this is well, and I can tell you from the college
perspective many institutionsright now are petrified of
enrollment dipping.
So, yeah, yeah.
So they want your son, theywant your son.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Actually can we just can.
I ask this question yet, naomi?
What is the ACT?
Because I bet there's peoplelistening who have no idea what
the ACT is.
So let's talk about what theACT is and what are.
Like this question I don't knowwhat is the the rate?
Of course well, what's thewhat's the score that makes

(20:34):
colleges start being like, oh,like when?
When do colleges start payingattention?

Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah, so well, okay, yeah, the ACT.
The ACT and the SAT are twocollege entrance exams and it's
just, it's a.
These are two standardizedtests.
Some parts of the country useone more than the other, but you
can take either or both, andit's intended to be this kind of

(21:00):
objective measure ofpreparedness for college.
Now, whether or not it actuallyreflects that is a different
issue, but it's it's.
That's very difficult toquantify, and so those scores
are kind of the best that isavailable to figure out where a
student is in terms of readiness, of readiness.

(21:22):
So when many high schools haveit set up for their students to
take the ACT or SAT, like intheir junior year.

Speaker 4 (21:50):
You can even take a pre SAT or ACT, but if you're
not attached to a high school,you can just Google it.
I mean, that's what I did.
I was pre Google and found outwhere in my area it was being
administered and I just went andtook it and can get a better
score.
And I was like I got into allthe colleges without doing
better.
Why should I spend my money?
And that was like I look backon it and I'm just like that was
so stupid, but I didn't know.
Um, but I was like I got intocollege without taking it again.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
I'm not going to spend the 70 to take it again,
yeah, but and I think in moststates, and I shouldn't maybe
say most in Ohio, how it worksis in your junior year everyone
takes the ACT which, if you'rein a school if you're in a
school system, right, trisha,you referenced to that.
In our district, the smart kidstake the SAT Like it's kind of

(22:42):
more an invitation only, becauseI think those scores reflect
something within the schoolsystem maybe.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
I mean, I have a sense that I know at one time
the SAT included a written essay, I think now the SAT has that
option.

Speaker 4 (23:00):
okay, it does now it didn't use to Okay.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yes, but it was what was available or it was the, I
guess, the school that I wasplanning to go to and I took
mine like nine years after I'dfinished high school, and I
finished high school early, so Iwas in my mid twenties, so I
and I had not really had muchtime to study either.
And just kind of like what youwere saying earlier, tricia,

(23:24):
that like all the reading youcredit, all the reading you did
for your academic success, andthat's that's me too.
And I got a pretty good score.
Now I was taking it so close toenrolling I I didn't get those
invitations I got.
I got a better score than Iexpected, but I wasn't those

(23:46):
invitations.
I got a.
I got a better score than Iexpected, but I wasn't.
I realized now like I I onlyapplied to one school because it
was affordable and and I I seenow in retrospect that I really
limited myself.
I mean I had a good experienceand glad I went.
Don't regret that.
But at the same time I realizenow I had way more opportunities
than I thought I did so.

Speaker 4 (24:06):
And then to the question that Marilyn asked as
far as the range.
She mentioned the range andwhen do colleges start like
wanting you to attend.
I think that varies some bycollege.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
Well, so the high score on an ACT is a 36.
Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
I think, when I mean I'm not involved, really, in
admission, well, I'm notinvolved in admission decisions
at my institution.
My sense is, though, like ifit's below a 25, getting down

(24:48):
into the low 20s, you might wantto take it again, but you could
still get accepted.
My sense is like, even at a 21you can get accepted.
Um, it's, but the thing is thatit's just part of the picture,
it's not the whole picture.
So, like if you, for example,say you have a score that's
fairly low or lower, or justaverage, but if you have other
things that you're talking aboutin your application, in your

(25:09):
application essay, and talkabout you know your background,
your unconventional background,that can make a difference.
Well, at least in the contextof affirmative action, those
things are taken intoconsideration.
Now.
Now I'm not sure how it worksTechnically.

Speaker 4 (25:29):
There's there's still going to be some level of if
you're involved in yourcommunity, if you're involved in
your school.
Unique experiences are stillgoing to be desirable maybe not
in the same ways, I think, but Isuspect those that's what
colleges are still looking for.
They're looking for the kind ofperson who's going to be a
learner.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
Exactly, exactly, yeah, so was the school you went
to, one of the ones that sentyou a flyer, a brochure, after
you took the ACT.

Speaker 4 (25:57):
I think so.
I actually knew about thecollege because when I was a
young teen, I think, my Sundayschool teacher's I think
daughter was attending at thatcollege.
So when you sign up to take theACT you can send your scores to
different colleges and Ibasically put down the colleges
I knew which at that point.

(26:19):
That was one of them.
There was one that's kind oflocal and that was the one that
my friend was attending, the onethat the friend that I told you
was in the honors course.
So I sent my my scores to thatcollege.
And then there's a college thatwas close to my grandma on my
dad's side that I think it wasmy dad mentioned might be a good
option because I could possiblylive in the area with my

(26:40):
relatives and might be a littlebit cheaper if I could do
something like that.
So I I remember sending it tothose three schools and then I
ended up visiting those schoolsand um I think I may have and
I'm sort of trying to remember,you know, 25 years ago, um more,
but I think some of them kindof sent me sort of conditional

(27:01):
acceptance letters and stufflike that um encouraged me to
make you know, to plan collegevisits.
So I went and visited all thecolleges which my parents drove
me there.
I arranged the visits but theytook me, I think.
So the one of them I ruled outbecause it was too close and I
could live at home and Istrongly suspected if I stayed

(27:23):
at home I was going to beexpected to prioritize, you know
, the family business over myeducation.
I don't, I don't know how truethat would have been, but I have
a feeling, even if my parentshadn't necessarily expected it,
I would have felt that conflictbecause of the, you know, the
family loyalties and my desirefor college would have

(27:43):
conflicted the cultural defaultyes, yeah, yeah.
And and I, I think I knewenough to recognize that that
wasn't necessarily going to beif I wanted to prioritize
college, that wasn't going to bethe best way for me to go.
I ended up going to the one thatmy Sunday school teacher's
daughter had been had attendedand it was partly well so.

(28:08):
So the one the other, furtherone was more expensive and they
didn't and they offered similarlike.
I would have paid a similaramounts maybe, after all of the
like, scholarships and stuff,but um, it was one of those
where the one was a little bitcheaper.
They also had computerscomputers in every like every
dorm room and the other one.
You had to bring your owncomputer and I was like I don't
have one and, practicallyspeaking, this is going to be a

(28:31):
big, a big tool for me.
So, yeah, so that was a factorfor me to, just as a matter of
fact, that I didn't have theresource to take my own computer
as small or silly as that waswas, it was a factor.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
Yeah, understandable, and I think that's usually how
those decisions end up workingout.
It's like a constellation offactors, yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
And let me just point out, for young Tricia that
wasn't small and that wasn'tsilly, that was very real,
practical it was yeah, I mean,we couldn't all afford computers
then.
I mean that was now.
We just hope for refrigeratorsin a dorm room, but back then,

(29:16):
back then having a computer wasa real thing.

Speaker 4 (29:17):
We didn't have laptops then.
Right, yep, the actual collegeexperience.
I ended up only staying oncampus for about not quite two
years it was a year and a halfand then, just financially
speaking, I recognized that Ihad, I had the option to save a
lot of money if I lived offcampus and rented.
I had some interestingexperiences with that, but it

(29:40):
did end up saving me quite,quite a lot when it came to you
know, expenses, and it alsomeant that it meant that my
off-campus jobs also were alittle bit easier to to manage.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
So, yeah, can you say more about that?
Um, you mean that, were theymore flexible than the on-campus
jobs, or did pay better, or no?

Speaker 4 (30:01):
I, I had both.
Okay, I had on-campus jobs, Ihad multiple on-campus jobs, but
because they very bluntly,because they are intended to
work with students and aroundstudent schedules, the hours
tend to be pretty limited.
So, even though I was doing acouple of jobs, like, one of
them was like I don't know, twohours a week and the other one

(30:22):
was maybe five hours a week.
Oh, I get it, yeah, okay.
So it was one of those like Idon't know two hours a week and
the other one was maybe fivehours a week, oh yeah, Okay, so
it was one of those like thatwasn't going to cut it to cover,
you know, the rest of myexpenses.
So I, I had, I had at least one.
I worked weekends, so I would,you know, I drive to my off
campus job and work on theweekend and that's just what I

(30:46):
did.
It was how I paid for, you know, food Anyway, but it worked out
fairly well for me.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
But how did you find living on or off campus to
affect like your social life orlike that experience?
Because I know for me, since Istarted in my mid 20s, so there
was already kind of an agefactor between me and most of
the students age difference, butprobably even more than that
since I'd already had workexperience and everything you

(31:12):
know.
I was just in a different lifestage and so I never even
considered living in the dorms,but then I also feel like I
missed out on a lot offriendships and networking that
I would have got with the moreconventional experience.
How did that work?

Speaker 4 (31:28):
for you.
So even when I was off campus,I had a lot of the friendships
already established.
So I had those, you know, thosefriend groups and relationships
and stuff.
So that actually it actuallyworked out really well for me in
that regard.
But when it comes to, like my,my son, I actually am
encouraging him to spend a yearon campus for sure, because, yes

(31:51):
, it makes a big difference ingetting to know people and I
mean, those were my peers, eventhough, yes, I had very
different experiences, lifeexperiences and stuff from them.
I remember and this would havebeen my senior year went on it.
It was like a fun trip.
I think we went to Cedar Pointor something and I remember
hearing a couple of the girlstalking in the bathroom about

(32:11):
and I don't remember what it wasbut something to do with like
the money for the, for this tripor whatever.
And I was.
I'm, I'm like there as someonewho is, you know, spending money
that I earned at a job that Iworked, and chuckling at their
like comments about what, whatthey had, and their limitations

(32:31):
with their budget, when their,their parents are, you know,
giving them spending money andit just made like it was just
like you know, I feel like I'min.
I'm in a totally differentworld.
So there were, like there werebenefits and I did get to know
friends, but there were alsosome really big like differences
and and sometimes I felt themmore than others.

(32:52):
Sometimes I didn't, sometimes Ijust kind of ignored them.
You know, I had friends whodidn't have to work a job and
were fully funded, and I hadfriends who were working just as
much as I was and I think Idon't know, it might be me and
my personality or it might justbe that flexibility and it was.
It was kind of cool though wehad yeah, I have a lot of

(33:15):
variety, but that's good.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
I mean, and isn't that what college is supposed to
be about, you know, gettingexposure to people who are
different, who've grown updifferently, who have different
life experiences.
all that, yeah, that's great,yeah that's great, that's good
and I guess the reason I askabout that is because that's
something I have found myselfemphasizing to some of my

(33:39):
students who maybe the person,the family, go to college and
often, but there's just a realtension between, on one hand,
there's very good reason forthem to be giving their job the
time and attention, the energyright that they are and at the
same time, I want to say look,education is not just about a
grade Like college, is not justabout going to class and doing
the work, but it's also aboutdeveloping your professional

(34:02):
network too, Right, right, andsocial social network too.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
Yes, yes, social skills, social network and maybe
, especially as a coming fromhomeschooling, which I mean, yes
, I had the social socializationat work, but there's, you know,
there's different socializationskills when you're at work
versus, you know, in college andin a professional and a
professional setting too.
So, yeah, for sure it wasdifferent, it was valuable.

(34:28):
I would say yeah.
So I do feel, even though, yes,I did move off campus and that
was helpful financially for me,having already developed a lot
of those friendships wasactually really helpful to make
that work well and still get thebenefits.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
So that's kind of smart way to do it.
I don't yeah yeah, well, youknow, even if it does cost more,
it's worth it to have that.
And then if you, if you just dothat for part of the time, you
know, then you don't um, you canstill get the benefit of it,
even if you live, yeah, offcampus later.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
Yeah, but I also hear you talking about um doing what
you know, but paying attentionand changing as it made sense.
Yeah like and I think that's soimportant Just just the art of
paying attention and kind offollowing your own path when it

(35:22):
makes sense to do so.
Mm hmm, yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
So I'm curious about what you majored in.
I'm curious about you know anysurprises that?
Or you know like maybe thingsthat you expected about college
that didn't pan out the way youdid, or or like the things that
you thought were going to bechallenges and then weren't, and
vice versa.
So any surprises.
But then also like how did youdecide what you're going to do
then after college?

Speaker 3 (35:47):
And how did you even go about choosing your major?

Speaker 4 (35:51):
So I went into college because I always wanted
to write and I thought it wouldbe really cool if I could make a
living, as you know, writing.
So I went in.
That was actually anotherfactor to choosing a college.
They had a professional writingmajor.
I did not graduate with aprofessional writing major,
however, because I had alwayswanted to write books.

(36:12):
It was, I think it was mysecond year, and I would pour
over the course offerings andfigure out what I wanted to take
and what I needed to take, andI think I made my job the job of
my counselor, like what I'msupposed to be taking really
easy, because I always knewexactly what I wanted to do, had
a pretty good idea of what wasoffered, that kind of thing.
But there was a course it wasfor education majors and it was

(36:35):
about children's literature andI wanted to write children's.
I was thinking, maybe you knowyoung adult, whatever, like
early readers to young adultnovels somewhere in there, and I
was like this would be a greatclass for me to take, to know
what teachers are looking for,because then if I go to write a
book, I can write somethingthat's you know that they're

(36:56):
going to be able to use.
That was my thought.
It was in the educationdepartment and you had
prerequisites.
And of course I'm not studyingeducation and I have none of the
prerequisites.
But I really want to take thatclass.
So I asked my counselor youknow, can I do this?
And they said, well, you haveto get permission from the
teacher.
I was like, okay, I'll try that.
So I think I emailed and I gotpermission to take it.

(37:17):
That was fine.
I don't think the class wassuper full, yeah, so I took the
class, we went in and she wentover like the syllabus and
here's what we're doing and youhave your first assignment do.
The next class and it was to itwas to look at some children's
books and come up with teachingideas.
And I was like, oh, this iswhere those prerequisites are
really helpful, because I don'tknow what she's looking for.

(37:37):
So I just went after class andI said, hey, I'm the one who got
permission to join the class.
I don't have the prerequisitesand I'm not sure what you're
looking for.
Can you give me some directionor some help so that I you know,
so that I can go ahead and dothis assignment and do well on
it?
And she had a great suggestion.
She said why don't you just goahead and read the books and
come up with whatever you comeup with, and then I can.

(38:02):
Then I can see what you like,what you have, what you put out
there and we can you know.
Then I can help you, direct youwhatever way you know to help
you with what you're trying todo with this course.
I was like, oh, that's a greatidea.
I mean, she's a teacher, right,it's a good idea.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
So I know where you are, where your starting point
is yeah right.

Speaker 4 (38:17):
So I went, I got the books, I read the books, I wrote
down teaching ideas, turned inthe assignment and she pulled me
aside after class and said canI use these as examples for my
students?
And I'm like I thought you weregoing to give me direction and
do this, but sure.
And then she asked me have youever considered being a teacher?
And I was like nope, never have.

(38:39):
And that was at that point shesaid you really should.
I don't remember what all itwas.
By the time I was done with theclass I was like yeah, I'm
going to go ahead and switch mymajor this because it was
children's literature, which iswhat I love and I was like this
is awesome and I would love todo it.
It was not without bumps in theroad, because one of my methods

(39:02):
classes for whatever reason.
I mean I didn't have classroommanagement skills because I'd
never observed it and that's notone of the things they really
teach you.
So when I got put in a publicschool that had I think it was
second graders and the teacherwas a guy who had his classroom
managed by raising his voice.
And I don't have that kind ofvoice, especially as a young.

(39:25):
You know what?
would I have been like 19, 20?
.
I didn't have, I didn't have, Ididn't have a teacher voice at
all.
He told me so my, my professorwas the one who came in to
observe me in the class and hetold me I was going to fail.
And I reacted to that about thesame as I did to my mom and
said no, I will not.
And I remember actually goingwith with one of my friends to

(39:49):
his room for office hours and Isaid essentially I'm not willing
to fail, I do not want to fail,but I need your help.
I need you to help, help meknow what I need to do.
And I was careful to doeverything he said and I passed,
but not with.
Like it was passed withoutrecommendation or something.
I don't remember what it was.
That was the only class I hadany issues with, but yeah, so

(40:11):
yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
What happened to this and then and then that that one
class was like the end of allyour dreams?
I mean it's a silly question,because I don't know the answer
because but I think it'simportant to know, like you know
like that can happen and youcan still be totally fine like
that can happen, and you canstill be totally fine.

Speaker 4 (40:29):
Yeah, yeah, it was.
I learned a little bit.
First of all, I learned littlelike.
Younger kids aren't reallywhere I am most able to do well,
not in a classroom setting Ican do fine with them one-on-one
or small groups, but in a likea larger classroom.
That's where I struggled.
So, even though my licensuretechnically is first through
eighth, that I got.

(40:49):
Then I knew leaving, leavingcollege, I wasn't going to be
looking for like a first, second, third grade classroom.
I liked having the licensure sothat if I got into a situation
where I absolutely needed to, Icould do something with it.
But yeah, it was.
I knew that wasn't where, thatwasn't where I was going to be
focusing, that wasn't where mygifts were, but that's.
I took it as a learningexperience, not a you're done.

(41:12):
You're no good as a teacherBecause that's great.
At that point I did.
I did have enough people whowere telling me you know, you've
got what it takes as a teacher.
I just learned that classroommanagement, especially with
littles, is not my strength.
So I had to learn from it,which was, yeah, that's kind of
the idea.
So yeah, so yeah, I ended upgraduating with an elementary

(41:33):
education degree and then I justapplied.
Well, they had a.
It was a Christian school, sothey had Christian schools that
came and like interviewed,teaching like students
interviewed at a couple of theschools.
I ended up.
I ended up moving to Texasbecause why not?
I was single and I was.
I had a graduate, like Igraduated, and so I could do fun

(41:54):
stuff.
One of my dreams was to teachin China, which I ended up not
ever doing, but I did go toJapan for a couple of years too.
So I did leave college withsome debt, but it wasn't too
much.
So I paid that off in aboutfive-ish years, even on a
Christian school salary.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
So anyway, yeah, Wow, so you were teaching at a
Christian school then, andChristian school in Texas brings
all kinds of images to mind,but also just because that can
mean so many different things,right, was this urban?
Was this West Texas?
Was this?

(42:31):
What kind of a.

Speaker 4 (42:33):
It was in the Panhandle.
Yeah, it was in the Panhandle.
It was right in downtownAmarillo.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
Amarillo oh, I've driven through.
Amarillo so many times.

Speaker 4 (42:42):
Okay, yeah, so I lived.
I lived just a little off Route66.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
So Okay, yeah, how many years were you there?

Speaker 4 (42:49):
Two I was there for two years.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (42:52):
And I taught middle school English yeah, english and
reading.
It was fun.
I ended up doing a computerclass too, which was kind of fun
.
So I was there yeah, I wasthere the two years.
It was kind of a downtownschool.
There were lots of church kidsand then there were some local.
One of the big things they didwas they kind of offered it to

(43:13):
kids in the neighborhood to theyhave like scholarships and
stuff.
So there was.
It was an interesting mix of,you know, students and different
people in places.
So it was really good.
It was really cool because theonly people I knew when I went
there were the people whointerviewed me.
So I started like I startedcompletely from scratch and
getting to know people andmaking friends.

(43:34):
It was.
It was truly a really.
It was really good.
It was probably really good forme too because, you know, I
expanded my horizons a lot,learned a lot yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:46):
So it was really good .
Learned a lot.
Yeah, so it was really good.
You know, I don't think we talkenough about how the art of
doing that type of thing is sovaluable, and I think maybe
especially for women.
It kind of it teaches youconfidence, it teaches you life
skills, but you also learn thatyou can figure it out Like and

(44:06):
even if you make mistakes, whichyou will it's okay like, like
you learn how to pivot, youlearn how to um consider your
next moves and um I, I'm, I justthink the, the ability to do
that is something oftentimesfemales especially don't get,

(44:28):
and I think it's so valuable.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
But the encouragement , yeah.
The encouragement, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
That's great.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
So go ahead.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
I was just going to say so from Texas.
Yes, from Texas.
So I wanted to.
As I mentioned, I wanted toteach in China and I actually
interviewed with an organizationthat had English schools in
China.
But in order to go, it was alimited salary, which meant my
college loans were kind of abarrier and I had to.

(44:57):
They paid for the return tripbut I had to pay for the
original trip.
So I was like, ok, this waskind of my goal and I was like,
if, if that's where I'm headed,then I'm going to have to find
something like I'm going to haveto find a better financial
situation to get there.
So I ended up moving back to myparents hometown and I got it.

(45:18):
I applied for jobs in publicschools, but none.
I didn't get any of thosepositions at that point which I
was on my provisional licenseand I had only two years of
teaching experience in anotherstate, so I'm not terribly
surprised.
I didn't have anything superlike great for as far as a
teaching licensure and I alsodidn't know how to do all of the

(45:40):
application for public schools.
I did great with privateschools because I went to a
private school, private college,and they helped with that
schools because I went to aprivate school private college
and they helped with that whenyou know that language better
too, probably Like there's alanguage there that you knew-
Right.
So but I did get a job inanother private school where I

(46:01):
was making a little bit morethan I did in Texas and because
I could live with with family, Ihad lower like living expenses.
So I got kind of close togetting to where I wanted to be.
But then, so someone who'sstill friend today was dating my
.
It was actually she was myroommate for a while, so he's
dating my roommate.
And he asked me, he found out Iwas interested in China.

(46:22):
He said, well, have you everconsidered Japan?
And I was like, well, I hadn'treally why.
And he said, well, I have afriend who's recruiting.
And I was like, okay, hadn'treally why.
And he said, well, I have afriend who's recruiting.
And I was like, okay, but youknow, I know that I don't have
money saved up to go.
And he's like, no, they pay for, they pay for it, they pay for
the round trip, they pay for thelike.
You get paid when you're there.
And I was like, oh, so tell memore about it.
So he told me more about it andI interviewed for it and I got

(46:45):
a position there.
So I ended up in Japan and then, you know, it was there while I
was over in Japan that myhusband and I met and all that
happened.
So Wow, but that, thatexperience, that experience of
moving to Texas and likestarting in a whole new place,
hmm, I think it's part of why Iwas comfortable and confident
enough to go ahead and say, yeah, yeah, sure, let's do Japan.

(47:06):
Okay, well, and we say, yeah,sure, let's do Japan.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
Okay, well, and when you?
Yeah, I don't know.
I feel like I'm just repeatingthings we've said, but they're
so important, like you know,taking those small steps really
gave you courage to take thenext step.
You know, yeah, and yeah, yeahand I say small steps in
retrospect they were smallerthan the next steps you were

(47:29):
going to take.
But I guess I think that andmaybe I'm just particularly
anxious, but you know thestories we were told growing up
about.
You know the dangers here andthe dangers there.
You know well, one of my dreamswas to live in New York City.
It was always like in themoment, like I was so cautious,

(47:57):
you know, and so I just thinkthat's really admirable and I
think it's such a great exampleof how you know to step out, do
the next, take a small risk out,do the next take a small risk
and then, if that works out,you'll be more confident to do
the next risky thing.
And warnings about beingcautious are valid, but at the

(48:19):
same time, it doesn't mean youcan't, doesn't mean you can't do
it and have a good experience.
I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
Oh, go ahead, I was going to just even.
If something does go wrong, itdoesn't mean that you weren't
cautious enough or you steppedoutside of God's will or
whatever.
That's just life.

Speaker 4 (48:41):
And it could be a learning experience.
What do I learn from this?
How do I do better?

Speaker 3 (48:44):
Yeah, so from Texas you got a hot ticket to Japan.

Speaker 4 (48:51):
I mean with a couple years here in Ohio.

Speaker 3 (48:53):
Yeah, and you were there for how many years?
Three years.

Speaker 4 (48:59):
Yeah, pretty close to it.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
Yeah, yep, tell us just a little bit about that.
I mean, it wasn't a missiontrip.
We don't know what to do withthis.

Speaker 4 (49:12):
I was teaching English in public schools in
Japan.
It was kind of a I don't know.
There was some missional-ishaspects to it, because the
organization I was with washeaded by a guy who had come
over to the United States andgone to college and he had been
saved and then he went back.

(49:33):
He actually started the churchin the town where we all were
kind of centrally located and healso did a.
It's a Juku, which is like atutor, an afterschool tutoring,
where he he hired someone fromuh, from here in the united
states, to come over and andtutor the kids in english, which
some of the local schools wereso impressed with how well they

(49:55):
did with that.
They said, well, could you get,because all of the public
schools have a native englishspeaker to help with english, um
language teaching?
And so they said you know,could you find people like that
to you know, to be the Englishteachers in our schools?
So that's what was going on washe was looking for people to do
the teaching English in thelocal public schools and that's

(50:15):
what I did.
So I did that.
It wasn't quite three full years, because I got married in the
like the summer break between mysecond and third year and then
when I, then when I got pregnant, um, after since we were
married and got pregnant, theyactually cut short the the year
for us a little bit so that wecould come back, so that we

(50:36):
would have medical like themedical treatment here in the U
S.
So that was, that was my Japanexperience in very, very briefly
.
It was a lot of fun, I'm sureit was and challenge and a
challenge, both.
It was really good.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
So you know I always forget.
Did you speak PennsylvaniaDutch growing up?

Speaker 4 (50:55):
No, my mom knew it and she would talk a little bit,
but I didn't learn it too much.
Okay, actually, that's a funnystory.
It kind of goes back to thatcollege experience and
homeschooling.
Yeah, since I homeschooled, Ididn't get a language in
homeschooling.
There wasn't really a great wayto learn it.
So when I got to college, oneof the things was because I
hadn't had two years of languagein high school, then I needed a

(51:16):
year of language in college.
So I started out with Spanishbecause I'd actually learned a
little bit of Spanish beforesort of attempted it in
homeschooling.
But as you know we talked aboutearlier, I didn't do all of the
you know the books.
So I started Spanish but itended up the last.
It was actually two thirds ofthe class.
I had a teaching class that Ihad to take and it was at the

(51:40):
same time as the Spanish class.
It was a conflict that Icouldn't.
I couldn't skip the teachingclass because it was required
for my major.
So I couldn't do Spanishanymore.
So I was like, ok, first Ithought it was going to be the
one quarter and I was like I'lltry to do some independent
studying and then come back andtake the third quarter to get
the full year credit and realizethat wasn't going to work
because I had one.
Then I had a class that time,the third quarter too.

(52:02):
I don't think I can do bothquarters and get credit for it.
Do both quarters and, you know,get credit for it.
But there was a.
The other option, the otherlanguage option, was German and
I was like I don't know, this isa little bit of a stretch.
I don't know much German, butmy grandma and my mom both spoke
Pennsylvania Dutch and mygrandma knew German.
I was like I mean, if nothingelse it could be, you know, it
could be interesting.
So I jumped into that thirdquarter.

(52:24):
I didn't take the first twoquarters of German, I jumped in
third quarter.
Yes, I did, it was fun.
It was a little crazy.
I passed it.
I was.
I was actually kind ofimpressed that I managed to pass
it.
I don't think I got an A, butstill I needed the credit for,
you know, to get my collegedegree and I got it.

(52:45):
But that one was a challenge,but that was that was the only
time I studied German.
But that one was a challenge,but that was that was the only
time I studied German.
I didn't really know it toomuch growing up.
I knew a few phrases here andthere which I later found out
are like a Black Forest dialect,but that was on my trip to
Germany later.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
So I'm always kind of curious how, like I think,
those of us that grew upconservative Anabaptist probably
, whether or not you, we knowPennsylvania Dutch we understand
different cultures and you dokind of how to adapt to
different cultures.

Speaker 4 (53:18):
And.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
I am always kind of curious how that, how much that
affects getting on a plane andgoing to Japan or going to Texas
, yeah so what I found was thatI actually had more.

Speaker 4 (53:32):
This is this is kind of I don't know, maybe sad.
I had more trouble adapting tosome of the the culture of some
of the other English speakingteammates in the group.
That went over, cause therewere a dozen of us total who
were English teachers there andwe kind of had like a little
tight knit community, but mostof them were from like more

(53:55):
Baptist or non.
There were even a few morecharismatic backgrounds, and
then there's little me with myAnabaptist background.
I think the thing that shockedme was how, like, how much
difference I found that to be.
Even after attending, you know,a university that was Baptist
and teaching in Baptist andnon-denominational Christian

(54:17):
schools.
I was like, man, this isintense when you get to living
with people, yeah.
So, yeah, I found it even moreintense I think it's a good term
than than the adaptation.
I knew I was going to beadapting in Japan.
I did not expect to be adapting, you know, to my English

(54:39):
speaking teammates so what havethey then?

Speaker 3 (54:41):
had a more difficult time adapting to Japan too and
I'm saying Japan, as if I wasDutch.
I hear it, my kids are mockingme as we speak oh.

Speaker 4 (54:56):
I'm not sure on that one.
I mean part of it is because Iknow there were difficulties
adapting.
It was very different fordifferent people.
I think is a better way to putit.

Speaker 3 (55:05):
Which is fair?

Speaker 4 (55:06):
Some people yeah, some people loved it and fit in
pretty well, and others othershad more struggle with it.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
Yeah.
So one of the other questionswhen you contacted me, Tricia,
one of the other questions youbrought up which I think is so
fascinating you talked aboutthis idea about what is up with
some of us who just always wantto learn.
And that brings me to a wholeother.
You know, little soapbox,because I think it's such a

(55:34):
great question, a great question, and my response to that was,
yeah, what is up with thisnotion that you know, we get
married and live happily everafter we graduate and then we
are done learning, wedeconstruct and then we build.
No more questions Like what isup with this whole idea that

(55:57):
it's all a destination?
And, yeah, what is up withthose of us who always want to
keep learning?
Is it a fear of missing out?
Like I think I have some ofthat, but yeah, what else is
going on?
Like I'm always feeling likeI'm catching up with what I
assume the rest of the worldknows and I missed out on, but
I'm sure there's more to it.

Speaker 4 (56:17):
There probably is missed out on, but I'm sure
there's more to it.
There probably is.
I don't know.
I think, yeah, I've always feltlike there's.
You know, if there's more tolearn, I want to learn it.
Yeah, and I, yeah, it's gonedifferent directions over the
years.
Earlier on, I did some writing,intensive workshops and did some

(56:38):
courses.
They were graduate level but toyou know, to renew my license
or to change my licensure fromprovisional to a regular license
, so that was kind of where itstarted.
And then we talked before abouthow I always wanted to keep my
license up.
So I just kind of kept taking,you know, a couple of classes
here, wherever it was convenient, whatever.
But I also discovered that,like, as I got older and kept

(56:59):
taking, it wasn't just classes,it was also like I'd read a book
.
Or I honestly hadn't been intopodcasts until super recently
because I tended not to have alot of time.
What was the like with children?
Right, it was kind of hard todo that for a while, but it was
all like there was alwayssomething.
I was always trying to learnabout something.
I would get all the books Icould find about, you know, the

(57:22):
role of women in church, when myhusband took an assistant
pastor position because I wantedto know what you know, what
should I be doing?
My opinion about that ended upchanging.

Speaker 3 (57:32):
That path didn't lead to where you thought it might.

Speaker 4 (57:35):
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's pretty accurate.
It didn't quite lead me where Ifigured it was going, but
that's okay and maybe that's thefun of it and maybe that's why
I keep doing it, becausesometimes I discover I don't
actually know already.
There's a lot more there,there's a lot more to learn and
it's I don't know.
It feels more like an adventure.
It feels like you know it'sfresh, opening a treasure box

(57:56):
and finding out that there's,you know more, there's another
clue, I don't know, but that'skind of.
It just kind of keeps going andI feel like that's what I've
done.
I told my son the other day Iwas like, yeah, I think I've
applied at more schools thanyou've gotten requests to visit.
He's like looking at me, likereally, and I was like, well,
think about it.
I've renewed my license.

(58:16):
How many times you know aboutthese?
You know these schools since,since you've been born?
Yeah, it's like, oh, wow, butthat's fascinating, you know, I
don't know.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
I do think and we've talked about this before because
I think a lot of people or Iworry that a lot of people think
or are afraid that I thinkeveryone has to go to college,
and I don't necessarily, but Ido argue that, especially if
you're a stay-at-home parent,every year you should be

(58:49):
learning about something.
I don't care if it's cakedecorating, I don't care if it's
how to grow freaking succulentsthat hate me and my house.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
I don't care.

Speaker 3 (59:01):
I don't care if it's how to learning how to operate a
pressure canner.
Find an interest and learn howto do it for many reasons, but
first of all you're learningskills, but also you're keeping
your identity, like I think itis so easy to get so lost in the
world of responsibility andraising kids and and and trying

(59:26):
to save money and make a doc,making your doctor appointments
and whatever it is that you kindof forget what kind of pizza it
is you like.
You forget, you forget who youare in the process, and even if
you want to take college classeswithout ever finishing your
degree, that's perfectlyacceptable too.

(59:47):
Take writing classes, find outwhat kind of classes the library
is offering.

Speaker 4 (59:53):
Or the local community college.
Yeah, that's an invaluableresource.

Speaker 3 (59:57):
Right, Take photography classes.
There are so many options outthere and I think it's so
important that we allowourselves to be curious about
things we don't know anythingabout.

Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
Yeah, I think learning helps us be better yeah
.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
And to follow our interests.
You interests you know, like asyou're saying, that it's.
I don't think you're saying itas, uh, adding another item to
somebody's to-do list, but moreabout like, giving permission,
yeah, or or validating someonein, in, in seeking what's
meaningful to them, and it's notjust selfish.

(01:00:37):
I mean that's right, it's, it's, it's part of being a grown up,
I mean it's a part of being awhole human.
There you go, that's it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
And you know what you might take a cake decorating
class and find out youabsolutely hate every part of it
.
That's okay.
Or you're really bad at it.
Or you're really bad at it,that's okay, or you're really
bad at it, or you're really badat it, that's okay.
That's perfectly fine.
Now you know.
But you might also take a cakedecorating class and figure out
you're really good at it andcreate a little side gig on it

(01:01:11):
doing that.
Whatever it is you're doingLike, allow yourself to be a
human being outside of the humanbeing.
Yeah, yeah, outside ofresponsibility, outside of yeah,
absolutely.

Speaker 4 (01:01:31):
That was something that came up when my husband and
I flipped the primary wageearner, because one of the
things he said is I don't evenknow.
I said you should pursuesomething you're interested in.
You've got more time.
Do something you're interestedin.
He's like.
He looked at me.
He said I don't even know whatI'm interested in.
I said then find out, because,yeah, it helps us do better.

(01:01:52):
We physically, mentally,spiritually, emotionally we're
better when we are, you know,learning and developing.
So yeah, I thought that wasinteresting when you guys said
that that, yeah, that if youdon't know, figure it out.
Like, take the time to trysomething new, do something,
figure out what you'reinterested in.

Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
Well, and I think we all really desire this sense of
community, the sense of beingknown, the sense of being loved,
but I think sometimes we wantto be known without knowing
ourselves and I think you kindof have to make sure you do that
work of knowing who you are too.
And, of course, feedback fromother people is huge.

(01:02:33):
Your professor, that wasfabulous the way she saw you,
recognized your skills andaffirmed it.
I mean that's huge.
I don't ever want to underplayor undermine the importance of
that, but we also have to do thedifficult work of knowing
ourselves and loving ourselvesand respecting ourselves, and I

(01:02:54):
think that is something that'seasy for us to kind of sidestep.
And then the other importantquestion this is tangential.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
But, tricia, it's so interesting to me how many
little details you've mentionedthat I can identify with, all
the way down to seeing a classlike that.
So I was an English major but Iremember seeing a children's
lit class in the educationdepartment and going, oh, I want

(01:03:26):
to take that.
And then when I looked into itI was like, well, like you know
it was, I think it was thebarrier of like well, you know,
I'm not in education and so Ididn't pursue it, but I, I can
guarantee you I would not havegot the same reaction, but but
but it's interesting.

(01:03:47):
That's just one of those, thosedetails, and it's I don't know,
it's it's fun to hear whenpeople follow paths that I've
considered, you know, but didn'tfollow, and it's like, oh, okay
so like kind of a alternatereality and you get to see what
that path could be like.
So that's kind of cool.

Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
So throughout the years you had kids, you were a
pastor's wife, you were doingall the things, but you still
were taking classes and you gotyour master's correct were
taking classes and you got yourmaster's correct Eventually, yes
, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:04:21):
So originally I was just taking classes here and
there.
To renew my license, I needed acertain number of credits, so I
would just, you know, go andtake those classes which you
always have to enroll with somekind of you know.
What are you, what is yourpurpose, what's your degree,
degree or goal?
But at that point I was notnecessarily super focused on
that end.
You know degree as much as Iwas.

(01:04:45):
I want to keep this licensecurrent, but eventually I had
enough credits that I thought,yeah, I might as well, finish
this up.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
So tell me years.
How many years were you doingthis?

Speaker 4 (01:04:54):
So I graduated with my four year degree in 2001.
And I started officially, likemy official start for my
master's degree, where I satdown and said, yes, I'm going to
do it.
Here are the classes I've taken.
Here are the classes I haveleft in 2019.
You know, putting somethingtogether to renew my license,

(01:05:16):
which, because I wasn't in aschool, the way that I had to
renew my license was, you know,a graduate class here or there,
or some kind of you know courseclass, whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
So, yeah, I do think it's important to point out,
though, again, it's easy for usto think we have to have a
destination in mind, andsometimes part of the process,
part of the important part ofthe journey, is just doing what
you know to do.
It doesn't have to have somekind of huge goal in the end.

(01:05:50):
It can take you years and allof a sudden you're like, oh,
this gets me here.
Yeah, and the other part.
Well, well, I can be all forlike doggone it.
Wake up in the morning, have afew goals and get something done
with your day, like that's me,that's me, I'm, that's me.
Annoyingly so sometimes I also.

(01:06:10):
I think it's so easy tooverlook how important just
doing small things consistently,how important and the
difference that can make.
Sorry, I keep interrupting you.

Speaker 4 (01:06:23):
No, you're fine, and I don't think I would have known
earlier on or I wouldn't havepicked the same trajectory for
that master's degree.
Either it took me years andexperiences before I was, before
I knew where you know what Iwanted to do, or before I
decided on this one anyway.
But I think the thing that wasthe most, the reason that I
actually messaged the all, wasbecause when it came to that

(01:06:47):
graduate degree, I could getaccepted.
I got in no problem.
But when it came to financialaid for my undergraduate, it was
super helpful.
I filled out the FAFSA and thecollege had lots of.
You know, there were these,these grants and these
scholarships and these thingsyou could apply for and these
you could get a job and cover.

(01:07:07):
But when it came to the graduatework it was.
I filled out the FAFSA and thenit said, here's what you owe.
And I was like, okay, and Ilooked into it and I couldn't
find any grants.
All the grants and stuff werefor four-year degrees and I was
like, oh, so I'm kind of highand dry.
I guess the assumption is, onceyou have a four-year degree,
then you have the earning powerto afford your further education

(01:07:29):
.
And I was like that is not me,but I mean, obviously we made it
work.
I did get my master's degree,but I was wondering is there
something else I should know?
Or did I miss something thatcould maybe help somebody else?
And I don't know the answer tothat because I did miss it, if
there is.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
So anyway, so my thought is right off, just off
the top of my head, is that Iwould imagine that some of the
barriers that you wereencountering there to financial
aid at the graduate level is ifyou were taking classes like on
a part-time basis and not, youknow, not as a full-time, full

(01:08:11):
enrolled student.

Speaker 4 (01:08:13):
Is that right?
I think I was.
I think I was.
I don't know what the standardwas for full-time enrolled for a
graduate, though, but I was ina.
I was.
I don't know what the standardwas for full-time enrolled for a
graduate though, okay, but Iwas in a.
I was in a two-year program.
Usually.
Two years.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
Oh, okay.
And what kind of school, orlike what?
Was it like a regional stateschool, or was it?
What kind of institution was it?

Speaker 4 (01:08:32):
I think that one would have been a private.
It was another privateuniversity.
Oh okay, so maybe I should havegone with the state school.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
Well, you know, I get so many variables and I don't
want anyone to hear this and say, oh, that means I shouldn't go
to private schools, becauseprivate schools, you know, do
scholarships and grants too.
However, my sense is that oftenprivate schools and this is
such a broad, this sweepingpainting was such a broad
brushstroke that I'm hesitate tosay it.

(01:09:00):
But I think it is true thatthere are a lot of private
schools out there that havetheir graduate programs to help
them stay solvent.
Students are going to bemotivated, they need this for
their job, and so they're goingto go ahead and they're going to

(01:09:23):
be willing to pay for it, andso there are some institutions
where that's you were the cashcow, unfortunately, and that I
know it hurts to hear that.
Okay, let's describe a differentpath, just for a contrast.
Let's describe a different path, just for a contrast.
I know like if you had beenteaching at a public school

(01:09:43):
during that time, my sense isthere was a greater chance there
might have been some kind ofreimbursement for that.
I think if you is that yoursense of you know the education
feel better than I do, but isn'tthat the case If you is?

Speaker 4 (01:09:57):
that your sense of?
I mean, you know the educationfeel better than I do, but isn't
that the case?
Yeah, so I got a job in apublic school after I got my
master's degree.
Right, Exactly, so I did thatand they do have.
They did have it was up to acertain amount each year that
they would do tuitionreimbursement for anyone who
took classes or paid for theirclasses, and then the
requirement was you had to stayand continue teaching there for

(01:10:20):
at least two years after.
So my thought was, oh, like, myhaving my master's degree was
what helped me get the job.
So I was kind of like it waskind of a I was just not in the
you know the best place forgetting it.
But it also made me think, okay, so then if I had stayed, you
know, if I'd stayed in thatpublic school longer, then I
could potentially go ahead andget either another licensure or

(01:10:44):
certification or something andthey could have paid for it that
way.
Yeah, so that is one.

Speaker 3 (01:10:49):
So workforce is one potential way to yeah that's how
most of my friends or teachersget their masters anyway.
From what?

Speaker 4 (01:10:58):
I've been hearing.

Speaker 3 (01:10:59):
But, however, my husband is an accountant and
almost all his places ofemployment reimburse him for
continuing education.
Okay, and if not 100%, a largepart of it.

Speaker 4 (01:11:15):
It's even some yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:17):
But I think most of them reimburse them for
everything.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
Wow, and this is the thing.
Like you don't know this, youdon't know this stuff at the
outset and I'm sure, giveneconomics speak what it is right
now, our national economicsituation economics speak what
it is right now, our nationaleconomic situation there's

(01:11:44):
plenty of schools where that'snot an option, right, or at
least the strings that areattached require more and more
of you.
So it's good to know thatthat's an option, and also the
tricky part is that Look forwhat the requirements are Yep.

Speaker 4 (01:11:59):
What is it going to require of you?

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
Yeah, and that's just the tricky part, and I think
this is where we have to giveourselves a lot of grace,
because when we talk about likebootstrapping our way to success
and that kind of thing, we sayit with this assumption that we
have all the information infront of us, and then the
reality is we don't.

(01:12:21):
All we have is the informationwe have at the moment, and it's
incomplete.
Yeah, I mean.
Another option I think would beI would imagine someone like
you would get, could get reallygood funding if you applied to,
say, a doctoral program at OhioState or somewhere like that.
Miami Miami University is well,they have a great educate

(01:12:47):
rhetoric program.
That's why I'm thinking of that.
I'm sure they have a greateducation program too, but it is
, I think if you applied at aplace like that where they have
doctoral programs as well asmaster's.
But since you're, since youhave that now, if you wanted to
do that which I I'm notsuggesting that you should, if

(01:13:08):
you don't have to, but I thinkyou would get I think you'd have
a pretty good chance of beingoffered financial aid that way.
Gotcha, yeah, but again, somany variables and that's why
it's hard.
So probably if you went on auniversity's website and I say

(01:13:28):
this not just to you, but tolisteners who might have similar
questions If you go on theiruniversity's website and see, do
they talk about assistantships,because that can really help
offset.
So an assistantship would meanthat you are teaching undergrads
while you're also in graduateschool, or maybe there's some

(01:13:50):
kind of a research assistantshipor there's something, so that
you get tuition, your tuitioncovered.
You usually get insurancecovered.
It's not going to be fabulous,but it's going to be insurance
and a stipend, and so thesestipends, of course, are
designed for single people whoare not supporting families.

(01:14:11):
So it's not a gravy traintrained by any stretch, but that
kind of support can come whenyou apply to a big program like
that and if you're competitive.
Now, having said that, given thecurrent climate, I've heard
that students who had beenaccepted to chemistry programs

(01:14:33):
at University of Iowa have beengetting their acceptances
rescinded, Not because of anyfault of theirs, but simply the
department doesn't even havefunding.
The program's being cut, yeahWell, or at least defunded.
Enough Like chemistry,chemistry, that's just scary
stuff Like that's scary.
Like they're not even you know.

(01:14:55):
They're so far from the woke,from being woke, you know anyway
.
Yeah, so all that to say thatit's so uncertain, and this is
what happens when you live in asociety that doesn't value
education.
So what is your response tothat, trisha?
Is that helpful?
What would you like to do?
Is there funding that you, oris there a path that you are

(01:15:18):
looking to explore now, not somuch that Like a different
master's.

Speaker 4 (01:15:24):
Okay, no, at this point I'm yeah, I'm kind of
involved in working on somestuff with reading, but I'm more
thinking for people who arelike me, who were looking into
it and want to do a master'sdegree or a doctorate or
whatever, and and or maybe youknow seeing that price tag and
saying I can't do this, whatother options are there?

(01:15:47):
So so I think we have giventhose resources, look, maybe,
maybe even get a job your jobmay, if you have one, that might
be, you know, a way to get someof it.
And also look for largeuniversities, look for, yeah,
look for places that would havesomething like you mentioned
assistantships.

Speaker 3 (01:16:06):
I think those are the kinds of things I correct to
say, like you know, I made in myundergraduate, I made quite a
few phone calls saying, hey,this is what I need, this is

(01:16:28):
where I'm at, what can you offerme?
And those phone calls gave meinformation I wouldn't have
found online.

Speaker 2 (01:16:36):
Would the same thing be true here?
That's true too.
That's a good idea, Probably,but I mean again.

Speaker 4 (01:16:41):
It doesn't hurt to ask Connections doesn't hurt.
Yeah, yeah, because it's kindof amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:16:47):
It's amazing what happens if you find one person
who decides to like you.
Oh, yeah, yeah, it helps.
Like just one person.

Speaker 2 (01:16:54):
Yeah, and and also just to circle back, Tricia,
like at the same time that youcould look at that and say, oh,
why didn't I wait to get mymaster's?
Would you have got the job ifyou didn't have the master's?

Speaker 4 (01:17:07):
Right, I don't know that I would have.
So you know, and so I wasthinking honestly more for
somebody else who was in thesituation I had been in.
What can we give them that Ididn't have?
That's cool.
I think we have some ideas.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
Okay, good, and I wish it were a more specific
answer than Google it, but partof it's because there's so much
variation and also the situationis always changing.
But, yeah, good, good, good.
And I am clearly a huge fan ofeducation and yet, when it comes

(01:17:41):
to the advanced degrees, myphilosophy is that you only do
as much as you need to get towhere you want to go, like it's
the cost in time and opportunityand energy.
All that is just too high tojust dive into it and think,
well, any degree is going to bebetter than nothing.

(01:18:03):
And yeah, especially for anadvanced degree.
Yeah, but it's definitely worthasking and keep asking.
Well, thank you so so much,tricia, for spending this time
with us and sharing your veryinspiring story with us and our
listeners.
We'll put your socials in theshow notes If folks have

(01:18:26):
questions or want to reach outto you.
I'm sure there's lots of folkswho can identify with different
parts of your journey and I'm soglad we get to share it share
with them.

Speaker 4 (01:18:35):
Thank you, it's been a pleasure to talk to you.
I'm so glad we get to share it.
Share with them, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:18:38):
It's been a pleasure to talk to you, agreed All the
things.
I am so glad you're almost myneighbor, a few counties over,
so grateful to have met you.
The world is lucky to have youand thank you for spending this
time with us.
I know it takes a certain levelof emotional energy and
vulnerability and I so respectthat and honor that in you.

(01:18:59):
And thank you for making yeah,making our day and all the
things we've learned from you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
Yeah, go take a nap if you can, if that's restful.

Speaker 3 (01:19:09):
Naps are amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:19:23):
Thank you for spending time with us today.
The resources and materialswe've mentioned are linked in
the show notes and on Facebookat Uncovered Life Beyond.

Speaker 2 (01:19:31):
What are your thoughts about college and
recovery from high demandreligion?
We know you have your ownquestions and experiences, and
we want to talk about the topicsthat matter to you.
Share them with us atuncoveredlifebeyondatgmailcom.
That'suncoveredlifebeyondatgmailcom.

Speaker 1 (01:19:50):
If you enjoyed today's show and found value in
it, please rate and review it onyour favorite podcast app.
This helps others find the showWhile you're there.
Subscribe to our podcast so younever miss an episode Until
next time.

Speaker 2 (01:20:05):
stay brave, stay bold , stay awkward.
Thank you,

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}56. Homeschool Roots, Global Vision: Patricia Lewis on Building a Life of Learning

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

All Episodes

56. Homeschool Roots, Global Vision: Patricia Lewis on Building a Life of Learning

Stuff You Should Know