This episode recaps a family reunion we recently attended, tracing five generations back to our great-great-grandfather Daniel D. Miller, discovering unexpected connections and untold stories that shape how we see ourselves today.
• Rebecca and Naomi join with Margaret (Naomi's sister) to discuss their experiences at a gathering of the descendants of Daniel D. and Mary Miller's ten sons.
• The recurring theme of strong, unsubmissive women in our family history raises more questions than answers as we wonder about their lived experiences and influence on their descendants.
• Were the frequent sawmill accidents unique to our family line or do they simply remind us of the harsh realities of farm life and child labor in the past?
• What value do extended family reunions hold for younger generations? How can we access a sense of belonging regardless of the life choices or current identity of individuals?
• What qualities (such as hospitality, pacifism, or a quirky sense of humor) do we want to consciously preserve and pass down to future generations?
If you're part of the DD Miller line, save the date for our next reunion in Sarasota in two years. Join our Facebook group for updates and connections!
Links We Mentioned (or should have)
Attendees representing Daniel D.'s Valentine's Irene: https://www.facebook.com/share/18zkW5aVts/
The cousin party: https://www.facebook.com/share/18vrrirHpj/
Daniel D. Miller Family (private Facebook group): https://www.facebook.com/groups/1791987254171830
Geauga Amish History Center (Geauga County, Ohio): https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61553567564967
Amish and Mennonite Heritage Center (Holmes County, Ohio): https://behalt.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is Rebecca and this is Naomi.
We're 40-something moms andfirst cousins who know what it's
like to veer off the pathassigned to us.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We've juggled motherhood, marriage, college
and career, as we questioned ourfaith traditions while
exploring new identities andways of seeing the world.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Without any maps for either of us to follow.
We've had to figure things outas we go and appreciate that
detours and dead ends areessential to the path Along the
way, we've uncovered a fewinsights we want to share with
fellow travelers.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
We want to talk about the questions we didn't know
who to ask and the options wedidn't know we had.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
So whether you're feeling stuck or already shaking
things up, we are here to cheeryou on and assure you that the
best is yet to come.
Welcome to Uncovered LifeBeyond.
Hello everyone, welcome back toUncovered Life Beyond.
(01:09):
This is Naomi and this isRebecca, so this week we're
doing something a littledifferent.
This weekend I'm here atRebecca's house in Ohio.
We just got back from amulti-day family reunion here in
Holmes County and yeah, it wasthe kind with name tags, folding
chairs, bad acoustics andrelatives we've never met before
(01:33):
.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
And some relatives that we had met before that we
didn't know were relatives.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Right, right, and to be honest, it was the relatives
I already knew that got me there.
That's fair.
So between the Lebanon bologna,the macaroni salad strawberry
fluff.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I think we should have a moment of silence for the
strawberry fluff.
It was pretty awesome.
It was pretty awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Descendants from the 10 sons of Daniel D Miller
shared memories from our variousfamily lines.
We learned a lot about ourhistory, but the reunion also
left us with even more questionsand answers, and today we are
joined by my sister, margaret,to talk about what we heard,
what we felt and what it meansto carry family memory,
(02:19):
especially when we're alsotrying to grow beyond it Right,
and thank you so much, margaret,for being with us today.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Margaret also helped organize the reunion, which I
know is like herding catssometimes, so thank you for that
.
But yes, sometimes familystories are more than just
sentimental.
They're maps.
They show us where we come from, they help us spot the traps we
didn't want to fall into andsometimes they give us a kind of
(02:48):
healing we didn't even know weneeded or we're looking for was
your first impression when youarrived?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
This is since this reunion was pretty far reaching
and there wasn't necessarilylots of people that we'd met
before.
What was your experience?
(03:15):
Getting involved and thenkicking it off?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yes, working with the people that I had been in
contact with and had never metbefore, it was interesting to
think about meeting them.
And when I first got there Iwalked in, I see these people
who, most of them, I did notknow, some of them I just knew
(03:41):
because my parents knew them.
But I met these relatives,distant relatives that I'd never
met before, and it was amazinghow we made those.
Those conversations juststarted.
They knew my great grandparents, they had been with my dad in
his childhood and so thosestories started coming out,
(04:02):
those connections, and it wasjust a really great feeling
because you're connecting withpeople that know some of your
history and, in some cases, knowmore than I did.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
That would be really kind of cool.
So this reunion wasfar-reaching.
And do you want to tell us alittle bit more about that,
Margaret reaching?
And do you want to tell us alittle bit more about that,
Margaret?
So it went five generationsback, but we actually have
history even further back thanthat, correct?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yes.
So to start with, the firstancestor in this family line
that lived in America came overin 1763 and was married, had
children, and then he waspressed to join in the
Revolutionary War and while hewas gone his wife became ill and
(04:54):
she asked for their fivechildren to be placed in Amish
homes.
So when this father his namewas Samuel Miller when he
returned from the war he wasdevastated to find that his wife
had died and he eventuallyremarried and disappeared and
his children never knew where hewas and they were all raised in
(05:15):
the Amish faith and becamestaunch members and raised their
families that way, and so thegenerations came on down and to
where this reunion was set up.
Our great, great grandfather,daniel D Miller, had 10 sons.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Samuel Miller would have been 11 generations back,
nine generations back from us,okay.
And then, four generationslater, came Daniel D Miller,
whom this was a gathering ofpeople below him.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
What time period did DD Miller, daniel D Miller, live
in?
And51, and he lived till 1947.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
And his wife Mary.
She was born in 1849, and shelived to 1924.
So Daniel lived quite a numberof years after his wife did so
late 1800s up to early mid-1900sup to early mid-1900s.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
So for a frame of reference, I like to think of
the little house books and, if Iremember correctly, many of
these sons were born in the1880s and if I remember
correctly, the Ingalls familywas out there on the Dakota
territories in the 1880s,surviving the long winter and
all that.
So this was the time frame ofthis family's, or this
(06:56):
particular generation's births.
So of the 10 sons, eight wererepresented at the reunion.
Sons eight were represented atthe reunion.
Our ancestor in this family wasValentine and we knew him as
Feldy Pop and he passed awaybefore I was born, before you
(07:16):
were born, rebecca.
But, margaret, you actually didget to meet him, although I'm
not sure if you remember it.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
No, I certainly don't remember it.
I was 16 months old when hedied, at age 94.
And at the time he was livingwith our grandmother, irene and
her family, and he fell andbroke his hip and passed away
three days later.
But my mother happened to bethe person who was staying with
grandma and watching over himand when he passed away, and so
I was 16 months old and the restof the family was at church
that evening right, that'scorrect.
(07:52):
The rest of the family had goneto church for revival meetings
or something.
So you know, I know they didn'thave a telephone and so when
they came home from church, youknow, they found out that.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, they didn't have atelephone you know, they found
out that, yeah, yeah, well theydidn't have a telephone.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
They didn't have a cell phone at the church.
Oh, oh, oh, because they wereat old buffalo crossroads, at
that old presbyterian church.
I think that would that theywere renting at the time.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
You're right, wow, rabbit trail so I think you
should introduce yourself theway people were introduced at
the reunion.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Oh, okay.
Well, I come from this familyline of Daniel D Miller.
Ich bin der Daniel D, derValentine, der Irene, der Leroy
der Margaret.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I think, that's amazing, it uh?
Leroy say Margaret.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
I think that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I think that's just a little bit awkward, but you get
the point.
Well, you know, the cool thingis like it is a little awkward,
but still not everyone knowsthat about their past and I
think that's kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah.
It's like our version of thebegats in the Old Testament.
So the center point of thisreunion was hearing from each,
or hearing from a representativeof each of the 10 sons, and
they shared, you know, familyhistory and memories such as
(09:25):
they had you know or that hadbeen passed down to them.
So we won't put our listenersto sleep by giving them a
rundown of each of the eightspeakers, but it might be fun to
talk about some of the storiesthat are going to stick with us,
to talk about some of thestories that are going to stick
(09:47):
with us, the stories that weheard, that, you know, made us
go oh, I, I.
That tracks.
That makes sense.
You know, the stories that madeus proud, the stories that,
well, some of them made us winceor cringe, but but certainly
memorable.
So what are some things thatstand out to either of you?
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I was so impressed by the fact that one of the first
speakers mentioned that there'snot a lot that we know about our
great grandmothers and yet,from what we do know, they were
strong women.
So that was interesting to meand I think it must have shaped
their families and I'd love toknow more about them personally
(10:29):
and why they were the way theywere.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
You know what?
I think that was an amazingpoint and I thought it was
really fascinating.
There was a younger Amish guywho spoke about it as well then,
because they kind of opened itup actually with this point.
Who spoke about it as well then, because they kind of opened it
up actually with this point,and then later on this younger
(10:52):
Amish guy I'm guessing he was40-ish and he also was talking
about his grandmother and hemade the point of saying and she
wasn't submissive and it was asa compliment.
I mean he was complimenting herleadership and her ability to
navigate the world and takepeople with her and it really
made me curious about, first ofall, the way we view submission
(11:16):
and when that became a big deal.
And he seemed so proud of thefact that that was not a way to
describe his grandmother and Ijust was really impressed by
that.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Right Well, and I think we've had similar
conversations about our owngrandmother.
I mean, she had her own wayabout her.
But I suspect that theinfluence of evangelicalism,
(11:48):
influence of evangelicalism,fundamentalism in the mid-20th
century took some of thosecultural norms and just cranked
them up a bit and added theweight of spirituality and a
moral and even deeper moralweight than what would have
already been there in theculture.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
True, and you mentioned too that our
grandmother had her own.
She had her own Exactly, andshe walked to her own beat, but
she would turn over in her graveif we would suggest she wasn't
submissive.
Yes, that's true, which isfascinating.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
One of the moments that stood out to me.
It wasn't huge in significance,this is more in conversation,
but our dad was there and he washaving a conversation with a
friend from fourth grade,someone he hadn't seen since
fourth grade, and they werechatting and it was really sweet
(12:42):
to see how they remembered eachother and it made me wonder
what else was going on.
But one of the things she saidwell, they were saying these
nice things to each other youknow about.
Oh, I remember this about you.
I remember that about you, andI said that it reminded me of
the saying that we don'tremember what others say.
(13:03):
We remember how they made usfeel something like that and
that really seemed tocharacterize their memories.
But what she was saying was thatshe felt badly.
She's felt badly ever sincefourth grade because she had
tattled on him at some point andhe had to stay in for recess or
(13:23):
something.
He got punished for it and shehas felt bad about having done
that ever since.
Do y'all remember what it wasthat he said?
Because then we were wondering,like what did he do?
What did she tattle?
Speaker 3 (13:37):
on him, for he called her by her name Hossa Filla.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
That's a pants filler for anyone who's not conversant
in Pennsylvania Dutch.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
You know what else is weird about these family
gatherings that I wasn'texpecting is, all of a sudden,
you enter the room as an adultPeople that you previously might
have experienced as a kid andwe were the younger people there
.
We were absolutely the youngerpeople in the room and people
(14:10):
who absolutely were aninfluential part of your
childhood, good or bad.
You were now yeah, yeah, therewere some people there as an
authority figure.
You were now on a level playingfield and it was fascinating.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, you could feel a shift, or there was a shift,
or maybe that was just in ourheads, but anyway, it was
different.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
It was different and I think it would be really
interesting.
Well, first of all, it made meaware of of you know, at some
point I'll probably be the oldperson in the room at a family
gathering too and how that isgoing Like.
That's kind of the circle oflife, and how does that feel?
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, so wonder if anyone had any moments that
maybe reinforced what theyalready knew about our family or
, you know, had some hunch aboutour family.
We've already talked about the,the unsubmissive women, that
trait but what about anythingelse that resonated or maybe
(15:18):
helped explain a long standingfamily dynamic?
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I thought the story of the missing fingers and how
much that seemed to be a traitof our family was kind of
fascinating.
The story was that mygreat-grandfather was bragging
to my father about how close hecould get to a table saw without
yeah, to the saw blade, withoutcutting his fingers and in the
(15:45):
process whacked off too.
And as I was hearing the story,I leaned over to my husband and
I'm like there you have it.
Did we have uncles that lost aswell, or was that?
And I have a brother who lost afinger too.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
But that was a thing that came through and I don't
know if this is reflective of atime period or reflective of a
family, but there were quite afew stories of people who had
lost limbs or digits because ofworking in the sawmill industry.
And so I mean I don't know, Idon't know if it's unique to the
(16:24):
family or if it's just commonfor the time period, but I think
also Feldy Pop, ourgreat-grandfather, he not only
lost those two fingers but helost other fingers as well.
Right, I don't remember thosedetails.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Why do I think that they said he died with two
fingers on one hand and three onthe other?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
I don't know what all the incidents that happened,
but I do know some years afterhe lost those fingers in a saw
he was trying to clean up oatsgoing into an auger and got
another digit hung up and it was.
It was pretty bad.
He wanted his wife or hisdaughter to bring the pruning
(17:03):
hook so he could cut it off andthey refused and they insisted
he goes to see the doctor buteventually it turned black and
he got his whip had to be takenoff, but not by the pruning hook
Right, who knows.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Maybe he thought that they just kind of grow back in.
Who knows can, who knows?
The other thing that I thinkabout is kids really did work
hard at a younger age.
I mean, that was the case withmy brother.
(17:38):
He was working with equipmentthat was way too big for him,
from my memory.
That's what, and I think whenwe I think it's easy for us to
forget that farm accidents are areal thing and they can really
be dangerous and child laborlaws are important.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
And also in that time period when those pieces of
equipment were being made, theyprobably did not have much in
the way of guard blade guards.
Safety procedures were not abig deal, and I find it
fascinating that the word isthat all 10 of those sons were
pretty easygoing guys.
(18:15):
So I don't know how that playsin necessarily with losing
fingers, but they seemed prettychill.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And adventurous.
Well, and also adventurous, Imean, maybe they they weren't
risk averse.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
I mean, or it seems they were willing to take risks,
but they also yeah, they, theyalso had a um seem to have a
reputation for being well-liked,for getting along well with
people, for having a sense ofhumor, having the ability to
communicate well, and I thinkthat's an interesting trait,
(18:52):
because that's not alwayspresent in these kinds of
situations that you're talkingabout.
Also, speaking of children,while 10 of the children did
survive to adulthood, we alsolearned about a set of twins
that were born at some point whodid not survive, and it was
(19:15):
because of the cold that thecabin they were in, from what we
understand, was built out ofgreen wood, and so the wood
shrank and that left all thesecracks in the wall.
And then there was winter, andwe're not sure was that.
Some were saying that cabin waslocated in Somerset,
pennsylvania, but then also thefamily was in Ohio, and so I
(19:37):
know people moved, we knowpeople moved around, but
wherever it was, the twinsdidn't survive, which is really
unfortunate.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
And some books would suggest that it actually
happened in Farmerstown, Ohio,and I drive past or through
Farmerstown on my way to work,so it's kind of strange to think
that five generations ago theywere here.
Like it's weird, Like yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Your ancestors were here struggling for survival.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Your ancestors were here struggling for survival.
I like that, or I think it'sreally cool that you live in an
area where you have ancestorsfor generations back.
Sometimes we think we have togo to Europe where they came
from, and while I love thatfeeling of walking down a street
over there and thinking ourancestors were here, we have
that here too Nine generations.
(20:24):
That's kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
So what were some of the questions that came up as we
were listening to the stories,and what were the things that we
wanted to that we wish we couldknow more about?
Speaker 3 (20:39):
When they were talking about Mary, our great
great-grandmother yes,great-great.
The question I have is what didshe do to raise those 10 sons,
to appreciate her leadership andit seems to have been passed
down through the generationsbecause we hear about other
strong women who were greatleaders and were admired.
(21:03):
Those 10 sons obviously had todo things that if they'd have
had a bunch of sisters, theywould not have been doing, and I
like to think that that shapedthe way that they perceived
women and their daughters.
But that's a question I wouldlove to ask, mary what did you
tell your sons?
How did you communicate withthem?
(21:24):
What was your experience?
Because those are the kinds ofthings that I like to ask
grandmothers.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Right, and there were also stories of her sons having
a sense of humor and a sense ofawareness which in the early
1900s would be like.
I mean, we think of us beingprogressive today and aware and
learning all these things andit's like, well, maybe they knew
what was going on back then too.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
They were self-reflective and seemed to
have the ability to attune andcommunicate and be emotionally
intelligent.
Yeah, were there any storiesthat felt sanitized or overly
nostalgic?
Yeah, I'll be honest, I didn'thear as many as I thought I
might.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
The one I thought about, and this wasn't directly
in our line, but in the familyof eight sons there was one who
ended up leaving the Amishchurch, and he had a descendant
that was there, and she wasamazing, she was sweet, she was
adorable, and it was interesting, though, because she kept
(22:29):
talking about how he left thecommunity and I I was reminded,
and she talked about how much ofit was a honor and a privilege
to be able to connect withfamily that she didn't know
about, and in that story shesaid she had known, before
becoming kind of connected withthe reunion, the folks
(22:50):
organizing the reunion in thelast few years.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
she knew she had Amish relatives and she would
joke about it as she drovearound Ohio like, oh there's my
Amish cousins, and not reallyexpecting to ever actually meet
some of her Amish cousins, whichnow she has.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
In that I was just curious, like what's the story
that's not being told?
And when is it appropriate tostart talking about maybe the
damaging effects that happen inshunning or in disowning and
what that does to futuregenerations?
And did that happen?
Right right, was that the case?
(23:29):
You would, I would assume, ifthey kind of lost touch as a
family perhaps, but but maybenot necessarily.
So yeah, I don't know.
I was just really curious aboutthat, like I was like what part
of the store is not being toldthere?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
No, I agree.
And then this afternoon afterthe reunion, our mom and dad
came over here.
Rebecca invited our mom and dadover and we were hanging out
and going through a bin of oldletters from grandma, which was
really cool.
But it was an opportunity toask my dad about our aunt Lydia
(24:04):
who left, and I think we'vementioned her before on the
podcast.
And I think we've mentioned herbefore on the podcast, but I
was curious about that becauseshe had left the Amish tradition
and we knew her as HolinessPentecostal, how she managed,
how she seemed so accepted bythe family even though she had
(24:25):
left the tradition.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
So dad explained that she had left the tradition with
her husband and he said it wasjust never a thing right.
Well, actually, from what Iunderstand, it wasn't unusual.
At that point.
There were a number of peoplewho left the Amish Mennonite
tradition and joined some kindof a Pentecostal church.
It was a season when a lot ofthat was happening, so it wasn't
like they were the only onesdoing that some kind of a
(25:09):
Pentecostal church.
It was a season when a lot ofthat was happening, so it wasn't
like they were the only onesdoing that.
So I don't know if you wouldcall it a time of spiritual
renewal I don't know if that'sthe correct term for it, but
there was.
I think it was the time maybewhen people were just making a
lot of changes, and so it wasn'tunusual for her to be doing
(25:30):
that.
She wasn't the only one.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Okay, okay, that makes sense.
That makes sense, although Ijust can't help but notice the
difference between the way thatdad described the reaction to
her leaving and the way I thinkthat kind of thing would go down
today.
Anyway, that's just kind of.
It was just interesting to getthat clarification from him,
(25:54):
since I was just working from myperception of things as a child
.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
So this great aunt that we're talking about.
Her name was Lydia and she AuntLydia.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Not Lydia.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I mean, maybe that's what it said on her birth
certificate, but she was AuntLydia, Not Lydia I mean, maybe
that's what it said on her birthcertificate, but she was Aunt
Lydia and so she would have beenBeldy Pop's daughter and wrote
many letters back and forth toour grandma Irene, and I have
some of those letters and wewere reading through them today.
And, um, lydia was talking aboutbeing at an amish funeral and
(26:33):
she was talking about how herand lizzie is that another
sister, a friend, were there andthey were the only ones who
were in amish, except for oneother person, I guess, because
she was criticizing the lengthof that skirt that she had on,
but yet she was.
Was also kind of pointing outhow some of the other people
there look like nuns, and I justkind of had to chuckle because
(26:57):
we just don't stop doing that,do we?
I mean, like we've all heardthat, we've all done that, we've
all been part of that game, andI just had to laugh at how
human nature is just humannature.
It doesn't matter if it's inthe early 1900s, it doesn't
matter if it is in the 60s or2025.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Here we are, yeah, evaluating or critiquing or
making observations about peoplebased on appearances.
So we're talking about ourdifferent impressions and the
way that stories, that parts ofstories, are lost or can be
forgotten, and I think thosegaps are.
(27:41):
I think we go, we participatein reunions and this kind of
thing in a search for the puzzlepieces to fill in those gaps,
to fill in those questions.
Were there any other gaps thateither of you noticed, of things
that weren't said, or silences,things that were missed?
Speaker 3 (28:02):
One of the things that I noticed.
I've seen it in accounts offamily history and we alluded to
the fact that it was mentionedat the reunion too.
We have great ancestors, butthe women, the women's stories
are really quiet and I find thatsad and I also have found
(28:26):
myself really passionate aboutseeking out those stories.
I want to know what, even ifit's tiny little pieces of the
puzzle.
I want to know what partspeople do know and put them
together, because those mothers,they shaped the future every
bit as much as those fathers did, the future every bit as much
(28:47):
as those fathers did.
And it's one thing to mentionit and say, yeah, the women
weren't very well.
You know, we don't talk verymuch about what they did, and
then even in the family historybooks when it's mentioned, then
there's another it's mentioned.
(29:10):
Oh, you know, we don't give themothers enough credit and then
it's all about the dad.
So that's one of my passions isto find those pieces.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
So what are you going to do to fix it?
You have a passion.
What are you going to do to fixit?
Speaker 3 (29:18):
I would love to do all the interviews I can and I
would love to put it in bookform.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
I think you should do it.
I think that would be great.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
So a heads up to our listeners.
We're teasing a project that wehope to tell you more about
after a while.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
And I think it's so important because so I have
three kids.
None of my kids have the samemother and by getting these
stories, it represents so manydifferent pieces of who even
just one person is and howdifferent people experience
different people.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
And even among ourselves.
You know we've talked about ourimpressions of our grandmother.
We all have as many differentexperiences as there are, you
know, different individuals ofus.
So putting all those piecestogether just gives us a very
well-rounded picture of a personand who they are.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Right, and I think it's also fascinating to kind of
dive into perhaps why differentpeople have different
experiences and the events andthe situations that maybe shape
some of those types of things.
My grandma, irene would havebought me my first pair of
(30:38):
little black Mary Jane shoes.
I was so proud of those shoes.
I spent most of my lifebarefoot and then when I did
actually have shoes, I had likeone pair of tennis shoes for I
was probably seven or eight andshe bought me this pair of black
Mary Janes.
It wasn't until you guyspointed out years later and
you're absolutely right she hada bunch of used shoes that were
(31:02):
given to her that she would havetypically just turned around
and gave to someone and madethem wear it, whether it was a
size too big or too small, butyet she bought me a new pair,
like what the heck?
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Hang on.
You got a new pair of shoesfrom grandma.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
She took me into the Lewisburg Kmart and I maybe
stood in front of the shoe racktoo long just gazing at them
Like I might have done somethinglike that.
It was Murphy.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Mart.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Oh, it was Murphy Mart.
You're right, it was MurphyMart.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Murphy Mart was down in Sealands Grove.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
You're right, You're right.
It was Murphy Mart.
I just remember standing thereand just gazing at those shoes
and she's like why don't we getyou a pair?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Are we talking about the same grandmother?
Because I also remember wearinga dress with a zipper in it and
at the time zippers were kindof the innovative thing in our
little bubble and I guesstraditionally it would have been
buttons.
And which is such a complicatedhistory with buttons?
(32:05):
Buttons on the back of littlegirls' dresses were okay On the
front of adult dresses, bad Onthe front of men's shirts.
Totally fine.
There's just no logic to it.
Anyway, that's beside the point.
The point is I have a veryclear memory of wearing a dress
with a zipper down the back.
It was one of the first times.
(32:27):
And walking in the walk and therocks were, it was kind of the
rough times.
And walking in the walk and therocks were, it was kind of the
rough walk.
There was some broken concreteand falling and skinning my knee
and hearing grandma say it wasbecause of the zipper in the
dress that you fell down.
And you know and I say thatwith absolutely no resentment or
(32:47):
knowing her in the context ofwho she was it makes sense to me
she had many sides.
She's a complicated characterand was very loving and many,
many warm memories of her.
But it's just to say that herbuying a child a pair of shoes
just because the kid wanted themwas not something she was doing
(33:10):
every day of the week, and Ithink you had a special status
that, yeah, the rest of usdidn't know about.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, I have been really curious about that
Because for many years I thoughtabout it.
I love the memory and all that,but I never thought about how
unusual it was.
But you're very right, For manyyears there, the devil was in
the zipper.
The devil's not the detail, thedevil is in the zipper.
(33:39):
That was a real thing and Ialso think it's funny.
I mean I knew it, but afterreading these letters from her
sister, her sister really sawthe devil behind every bush and
she was all into the end timesand I mean this was, this was,
and so I wonder how much thatinfluenced her too.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Right, right, yeah, her sister would send her a
bunch of tracts and they were inthis box and I scanned some of
the ones with provocative titlesand one of my favorites was the
most dangerous dope of our time, or something like that.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
And guys, there's tracks in there from Ken Ham.
How old is Ken Ham?
Like Ken Ham, I cannot believeI have his literature in my
house.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
That must have been early 90s.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
I think so I think the most.
There were maybe a fewpostcards from 96.
I think that was, but therewere also letters dating back to
the 70s, so yeah, and even atiny little notebook dating back
to the 30s.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
That's right, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah, I started scanning a bunch of those things
and it's the ephemera of dailylife that at the time most
probably didn't thinksignificant.
Most of us wouldn't.
We don't keep our to do listsusually and yet it's.
It's so interesting to go back.
For example, there was ascratch pad and I was looking
(35:07):
through the scratch pad and camealong a list of names with the
numbers next to them and figuredout that it was her Sunday
dinner plans and it was herguest list for a Sunday dinner,
probably in about 1975.
And so my mom and I were goingthrough and trying to work out
who those individuals, who thosefamilies, would have been.
(35:29):
Even though I wouldn't havebeen born at that time yet, it
brought back memories of thatbig dining room and the big
farmhouse.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
And 30 guests around her Sunday dinner table.
No problem, Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah, yeah.
So were there any particularparts of family story or
patterns that we want to honorand preserve, or patterns that
we want to honor and preserve,even if our daily lives look
very different from theancestors of the stories we were
hearing about?
What are some of the themesthat struck either of you as
(36:04):
traits worth preserving?
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Well, this is just going back to Grandma Irene
worth preserving.
Well, this is just going backto Grandma Irene.
Hospitality was just completelynormal for her.
You know she had people overfor meals.
She welcomed people into herhome.
I have so many memories of oldneighbor ladies sitting in the
hickory rocker beside her bigwood stove in the big kitchen.
(36:27):
They just came and sat there.
She might go on working, shemight be in and out of the house
doing her things and thoselittle old ladies were just
sitting there rocking.
And there's something abouthaving that kind of a welcoming
presence.
There must have been somethingabout her, something about her
energy that just attracted theselittle old ladies who just
(36:52):
needed to be in a safe space.
And she had this big bustlingfarmhouse.
It was a farm, there werepeople in and out, she had
grandchildren in and out and itwas a welcoming space.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
You know, that's kind of where my mind was going to,
and I think it was particularlyunusual because it seemed like
during that time the churches Iwas a part of, and even that she
was a part of, tend to kind ofclose themselves off from the
(37:23):
outside world, like prettyisolated, and yet somehow she
managed to have a hugeconnection to the outside world
and was some of that from herworking.
Like didn't she go to theLewisburg Farm Market every week
and didn't she have a standthere for a lot of yes,
(37:44):
everyone's nodding their heads,and this was like a thing she
did religiously.
I remember her buying mefireballs.
Wow, you didn't get fireballs,we maybe did.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Yeah, yes, I do remember fireballs.
They were like five cents.
Yes, yes, yes, I do rememberthose.
Yeah, yes, well, you know, whenshe was growing up in Virginia
Beach, from the time she was 13to 21, she went to market for
her parents.
She missed two weeks in thattime period, and so I think it
was perfectly normal that whenshe moved to Lewisburg she went
(38:18):
to farmer's market too.
And think of all theconnections she made.
She got to know a lot of peoplethat way.
She was just a friendly person.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
She was friendly and spicy.
She was person.
She was friendly and spicy shewas.
And for the record, if anyonecares, when she was the young
teen at the farmer's market andthis would have been in the
early 30s, right she sold adozen of eggs for 35 cents.
Just so you know.
I thought that was kind ofimportant.
That's what I learned from mylittle box of letters and
(38:47):
receipts.
But yeah, I agree, and I thinkthe thing that's also
fascinating is Feldy Pop wasfairly well to do and Irene was
a little Southern belle whoactually married down.
So our grandpa would have beenfrom a more poor family.
So she, her, my, our grandpawould have been from a poor,
(39:08):
more poor family, and I've oftenthought about that dynamic.
She wasn't necessarily spoiledin the sense of she didn't like
go buy stuff.
She was a cheapskate and shesaved everything, but yet she
was very brand conscious.
Like you had nothing butBechtel's ice cream.
Like you would never buy cheapice cream or cheap grape juice,
(39:43):
or even like, wasn't she reallypicky about her tinfoil and
saran wrap?
Like the very brand consciousabout that?
But she washed was like she wasvery committed and insistent on
particular brands, but yet shesaved everything.
It wasn't like she was just outhaving a party and spending
money.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Extravagance was not her thing at all.
She was very thoughtful andintentional.
The expensive things she boughtwere for completely practical
purposes.
She could can and bake, Herhome had all the essentials and
those things were going to last.
But she was not buying thingsthat were just frivolous.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Except apparently every now and then she would buy
a brand new shiny black pair ofMary Janes for a grandchild who
knew oh, there was that storyabout Peg Latin that we heard.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Margaret, do you want to tell that story?
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Oh yes, so our aunt said that when she was a little
girl they lived in a doublehouse, so our great grandparents
lived on one side, Ourgrandparents' family lived on
the other side.
So it was very lived on oneside, our grandparents' family
lived on the other side.
So it was very common for thechildren to go back and forth.
So the grandparents had secrets.
They of course needed someprivacy and they would speak Pig
(41:01):
Latin.
So the grandchildren didn'tknow everything that was going
on.
Well, as most childreneventually figure out, my aunt
figured out what they weresaying.
She could understand them andshe told them that she
understands.
Did she like repeat their wholesaying?
(41:25):
And so, as she says, the PigLatin pretty much stopped when
they figured out that thechildren are onto this.
This is not the way to haveprivacy anymore.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
And what did you say about your own memories of Pig
Latin oh this is true.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
So my grandma also spoke Pig Latin and as a child I
was so tickled the day Ifigured out what she was saying,
I could understand what she'ssaying.
And then I told her what shewas saying and I remember her
just looking at me and that wasthe end of the Pig Latin.
And for years and years I wasjust like why didn't I just be
(42:03):
quiet?
Why did I have to sayeverything?
And then I heard my aunt haddone the same thing to her
grandma and I realized, hey, I'ma normal child.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
So I realized I don't think my kids know what Pig
Latin is.
Do your kids know what PigLatin is?
Yeah, I think they have a joke,I think our audience wants you
to speak to us in Pig Latin.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
I love I Lila Fike washing, wash-aha Fashing.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
I don't know, I love Fie.
I think La Fink that La Fat youLa Foo, like, like, like La
Fike, two La Foo, one La Wash.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Two La Fishes.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
And I don't know that .
I even know I love Fie.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
It's adding something to every syllable.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yes, yes, yes.
And how?
And how do you know what we'readding?
Speaker 3 (42:50):
I think you just kind of go with what.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Oh I think lefi between syllables.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
Every syllable.
Yeah, see the At the end ofevery syllable the vowels change
.
Oh, I lefi do lefu li lefikralofakers.
Any linguists out there thatwant to explain Pig Latin to us?
I La.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Fie Do La Foo.
Lila Fike Krala Fackers.
Any linguists out there thatwant to explain pig Latin to us
Help?
Speaker 3 (43:15):
us out.
We are truly getting bored.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Trying to figure out our grandma's secrets.
That's what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
And so, as we reflect on this, what are some
takeaways?
In terms of the value ofattending a family reunion, we
know that well.
Speaking for myself, I wouldn'thave attended if it hadn't been
for the unique set ofcircumstances around the reunion
.
Otherwise, I had no intentionof coming and, as we said, we
(43:46):
were the young, we were thespring chickens there, and we
can understand how difficult itcan be when you're raising kids.
Your family has their owntravel schedule.
There's so many differentdemands on our time and energy.
Going to a family reunion tosee third cousins that we've
(44:07):
never met before can seem likesomething that goes at the
bottom of the to-do list of ourpriorities.
And so what are some thoughtsabout the value of these kinds
of events?
I know for myself I ended upenjoying it a lot more than I
thought I would, but what doy'all think?
Speaker 2 (44:25):
So I would kind of be with you.
I don't necessarily like groups, so that would be a good excuse
right there to stay away.
And I think for those of us whohave in any way been shunned or
disowned, it's easy to beunsure of where we belong or if
(44:48):
we belong, and I think it mightbe wise to at least consider
letting go of some of that andto attend these events with
curiosity, to ask questions andto kind of just let things be,
not attempting to worship ourancestors or to create history
(45:14):
that wasn't, but to simplyappreciate and hold what was.
It's a part of our past, it's apart of who we are good or bad
and to understand that that'skind of what we're living.
That's what we're living forthose who come after us too, and
I think it's just really kindof a neat way of not just
(45:38):
honoring the past but also thefuture and the present.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Before I came east for this reunion, I was having a
conversation with my son and Iwas talking to him about some of
the things I had found outabout my great-grandfather and
he said you know, I want toleave a legacy like that too.
So, coming to a reunion likethis, where you don't
necessarily know very manypeople, but there's a sense of
(46:02):
belonging, because none of uschose to be part of this family,
but we belong, and there's ahuman need for belonging and
it's not am I good enough or not.
It's.
I am a descendant.
That's not changing.
But, like you were talkingabout, you know the future.
(46:22):
I think it's great to look atthese people and go, wow, I want
to be like that or I don't wantto be like that.
And when we admire those people, I'm saying the same thing,
really, that you did in my ownwords I just like the idea of
being reminded about.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
What do I want my children, my great-grandchildren
, to say about me?
No, I agree, and I think somereunions or, you know, heritage
celebrations, right, can turninto a form of hero worship or
ancestor worship, or at leastkind of the sense of almost
exclusivity, and I think it'swonderful to be able to admire
those in our past withoutdemonizing anyone else, right.
(47:05):
Or saying, you know, to valueour past doesn't have to mean
devaluing anybody else right.
And so I think that another oneof the benefits of learning
about these parts of our pastyou mentioned, margaret, the
hospitality.
I think that's really valuable.
(47:39):
There was a mention of thepacifism that's in our tradition
.
Where we live, or because ofour working lives and being
pulled in many differentdirections and maybe not having
time for social relationshipslike we'd like, it's important
to be reconnected and to bereminded of those who
demonstrated hospitality, whoexcelled at hospitality, those
(48:04):
who had strong relationships andconnections within their
communities, and I think it canremind us of how that has been
done and how we can do thatagain, and it can inspire us to
bring something to ourcommunities as they are today,
something that's really neededand really valuable, and it can
(48:26):
bring greater connection to ourdaily lives and then pass that
on down.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
So anything else before we wrap up I think one
more thing that I think is kindof important is you know, we
have situations where where racewas not always dealt with well
in our history, there were timeswhere well-intentioned
(48:55):
spiritual abuse happened, and Ithink that it's important to
acknowledge and be honest aboutthose situations and also give
our kids space to be honestabout the ways we drop the ball
Because I were simply human andcorrect the patterns that were
(49:15):
started and somehow find ways toboth heal and maybe ways to
(49:47):
redeem that, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
I agree, I agree, and I think that's a way that we
can dare to look at the darkersides.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
We can dare to look at the parts that would be
easier to gloss over if we seethem as an opportunity to grow
and repair and and repair, andbe brave enough to speak up
about it and and to find ways togently ask those older than
what you are those questions to,to gently, um, to gently dig a
(50:21):
little bit deeper and and Ithink in some ways you want to
like you've had those questions,you've had those observations,
but it's easy to doubt yourselfand think that you're just kind
of making things up.
And if you can find ways togently ask those questions, I
think sometimes it bringsclarity but it also gives space
for change Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
So at the reunion there were some artifacts from
the family different familymembers brought and I'll drop
links to some of those pics inthe show notes.
Also a pic of our branch of thefamily that was there.
We had initially thought wewere going to be seeing a lot of
our aunts and uncles, so thenit didn't work out for as many
(51:06):
to come as we'd expected, but itwas those of us who were there.
We represented the Feldy Pupline and we'll put that picture
in the show notes.
So as we tell and retell thesestories, we're not just
preserving history, we'reshaping how we understand
ourselves and to our listeners.
Whether you come from atight-knit family or one that
(51:27):
barely speaks, there's power inknowing what came before you and
in asking those questions thatRebecca was just talking about.
And sometimes there's even morepower in deciding which parts
you're ready to leave behind andwhich parts you want to take
forward and how you want to dothat.
(51:47):
So thank you so much forspending time with us today.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
If you are in the Dee Dee Miller line or if you're in
the Felty Pop line, save thedate.
I guess we're going to be inSarasota in two years.
We have a group on Facebookthat we can add you to and make
plans to join us, because wethink you should be there too.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
And I couldn't help but think what are the things
that or how could a reunion likethat be structured or shaped or
designed to make it moreinviting, more compelling for
those of us, the youngergeneration, those of us who have
not yet retired?
And if anybody has ideas forthat, send them in.
(52:35):
I mean, I'm not on the planningcommittee, but I can pass it on
to somebody who is so.
Thanks so much for joining ustoday, and now we're going to go
have seconds of strawberryfluff.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
Thank you for spending time with us today.
The resources and materialswe've mentioned are linked in
the show notes and on Facebookat Uncovered Life Beyond.
What are?
Speaker 1 (53:03):
your thoughts about college and recovery from high
demand religion.
We know you have your ownquestions and experiences and we
want to talk about the topicsthat matter to you.
Share them with us atuncoveredlifebeyond at gmailcom.
That's uncoveredlifebeyond atgmailcom.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
If you enjoyed today's show and found value in
it, please rate and review it onyour favorite podcast app.
This helps others find the showWhile you're there.
Subscribe to our podcast so younever miss an episode Until
next time.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
stay brave, stay bold , stay awkward.
Thank you,
This is Rebecca and this is Naomi.
We're 40-something moms andfirst cousins who know what it's
like to veer off the pathassigned to us.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We've juggled motherhood, marriage, college
and career, as we questioned ourfaith traditions while
exploring new identities andways of seeing the world.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Without any maps for either of us to follow.
We've had to figure things outas we go and appreciate that
detours and dead ends areessential to the path Along the
way, we've uncovered a fewinsights we want to share with
fellow travelers.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
We want to talk about the questions we didn't know
who to ask and the options wedidn't know we had.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
So whether you're feeling stuck or already shaking
things up, we are here to cheeryou on and assure you that the
best is yet to come.
Welcome to Uncovered LifeBeyond.
Hello everyone, welcome back toUncovered Life Beyond.
(01:09):
This is Naomi and this isRebecca, so this week we're
doing something a littledifferent.
This weekend I'm here atRebecca's house in Ohio.
We just got back from amulti-day family reunion here in
Holmes County and yeah, it wasthe kind with name tags, folding
chairs, bad acoustics andrelatives we've never met before
(01:33):
.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
And some relatives that we had met before that we
didn't know were relatives.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Right, right, and to be honest, it was the relatives
I already knew that got me there.
That's fair.
So between the Lebanon bologna,the macaroni salad strawberry
fluff.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I think we should have a moment of silence for the
strawberry fluff.
It was pretty awesome.
It was pretty awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Descendants from the 10 sons of Daniel D Miller
shared memories from our variousfamily lines.
We learned a lot about ourhistory, but the reunion also
left us with even more questionsand answers, and today we are
joined by my sister, margaret,to talk about what we heard,
what we felt and what it meansto carry family memory,
(02:19):
especially when we're alsotrying to grow beyond it Right,
and thank you so much, margaret,for being with us today.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Margaret also helped organize the reunion, which I
know is like herding catssometimes, so thank you for that
.
But yes, sometimes familystories are more than just
sentimental.
They're maps.
They show us where we come from, they help us spot the traps we
didn't want to fall into andsometimes they give us a kind of
(02:48):
healing we didn't even know weneeded or we're looking for was
your first impression when youarrived?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
This is since this reunion was pretty far reaching
and there wasn't necessarilylots of people that we'd met
before.
What was your experience?
(03:15):
Getting involved and thenkicking it off?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yes, working with the people that I had been in
contact with and had never metbefore, it was interesting to
think about meeting them.
And when I first got there Iwalked in, I see these people
who, most of them, I did notknow, some of them I just knew
(03:41):
because my parents knew them.
But I met these relatives,distant relatives that I'd never
met before, and it was amazinghow we made those.
Those conversations juststarted.
They knew my great grandparents, they had been with my dad in
his childhood and so thosestories started coming out,
(04:02):
those connections, and it wasjust a really great feeling
because you're connecting withpeople that know some of your
history and, in some cases, knowmore than I did.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
That would be really kind of cool.
So this reunion wasfar-reaching.
And do you want to tell us alittle bit more about that,
Margaret reaching?
And do you want to tell us alittle bit more about that,
Margaret?
So it went five generationsback, but we actually have
history even further back thanthat, correct?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yes.
So to start with, the firstancestor in this family line
that lived in America came overin 1763 and was married, had
children, and then he waspressed to join in the
Revolutionary War and while hewas gone his wife became ill and
(04:54):
she asked for their fivechildren to be placed in Amish
homes.
So when this father his namewas Samuel Miller when he
returned from the war he wasdevastated to find that his wife
had died and he eventuallyremarried and disappeared and
his children never knew where hewas and they were all raised in
(05:15):
the Amish faith and becamestaunch members and raised their
families that way, and so thegenerations came on down and to
where this reunion was set up.
Our great, great grandfather,daniel D Miller, had 10 sons.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Samuel Miller would have been 11 generations back,
nine generations back from us,okay.
And then, four generationslater, came Daniel D Miller,
whom this was a gathering ofpeople below him.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
What time period did DD Miller, daniel D Miller, live
in?
And51, and he lived till 1947.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
And his wife Mary.
She was born in 1849, and shelived to 1924.
So Daniel lived quite a numberof years after his wife did so
late 1800s up to early mid-1900sup to early mid-1900s.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
So for a frame of reference, I like to think of
the little house books and, if Iremember correctly, many of
these sons were born in the1880s and if I remember
correctly, the Ingalls familywas out there on the Dakota
territories in the 1880s,surviving the long winter and
all that.
So this was the time frame ofthis family's, or this
(06:56):
particular generation's births.
So of the 10 sons, eight wererepresented at the reunion.
Sons eight were represented atthe reunion.
Our ancestor in this family wasValentine and we knew him as
Feldy Pop and he passed awaybefore I was born, before you
(07:16):
were born, rebecca.
But, margaret, you actually didget to meet him, although I'm
not sure if you remember it.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
No, I certainly don't remember it.
I was 16 months old when hedied, at age 94.
And at the time he was livingwith our grandmother, irene and
her family, and he fell andbroke his hip and passed away
three days later.
But my mother happened to bethe person who was staying with
grandma and watching over himand when he passed away, and so
I was 16 months old and the restof the family was at church
that evening right, that'scorrect.
(07:52):
The rest of the family had goneto church for revival meetings
or something.
So you know, I know they didn'thave a telephone and so when
they came home from church, youknow, they found out that.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, they didn't have atelephone you know, they found
out that, yeah, yeah, well theydidn't have a telephone.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
They didn't have a cell phone at the church.
Oh, oh, oh, because they wereat old buffalo crossroads, at
that old presbyterian church.
I think that would that theywere renting at the time.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
You're right, wow, rabbit trail so I think you
should introduce yourself theway people were introduced at
the reunion.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Oh, okay.
Well, I come from this familyline of Daniel D Miller.
Ich bin der Daniel D, derValentine, der Irene, der Leroy
der Margaret.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I think, that's amazing, it uh?
Leroy say Margaret.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
I think that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I think that's just a little bit awkward, but you get
the point.
Well, you know, the cool thingis like it is a little awkward,
but still not everyone knowsthat about their past and I
think that's kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah.
It's like our version of thebegats in the Old Testament.
So the center point of thisreunion was hearing from each,
or hearing from a representativeof each of the 10 sons, and
they shared, you know, familyhistory and memories such as
(09:25):
they had you know or that hadbeen passed down to them.
So we won't put our listenersto sleep by giving them a
rundown of each of the eightspeakers, but it might be fun to
talk about some of the storiesthat are going to stick with us,
to talk about some of thestories that are going to stick
(09:47):
with us, the stories that weheard, that, you know, made us
go oh, I, I.
That tracks.
That makes sense.
You know, the stories that madeus proud, the stories that,
well, some of them made us winceor cringe, but but certainly
memorable.
So what are some things thatstand out to either of you?
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I was so impressed by the fact that one of the first
speakers mentioned that there'snot a lot that we know about our
great grandmothers and yet,from what we do know, they were
strong women.
So that was interesting to meand I think it must have shaped
their families and I'd love toknow more about them personally
(10:29):
and why they were the way theywere.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
You know what?
I think that was an amazingpoint and I thought it was
really fascinating.
There was a younger Amish guywho spoke about it as well then,
because they kind of opened itup actually with this point.
Who spoke about it as well then, because they kind of opened it
up actually with this point,and then later on this younger
(10:52):
Amish guy I'm guessing he was40-ish and he also was talking
about his grandmother and hemade the point of saying and she
wasn't submissive and it was asa compliment.
I mean he was complimenting herleadership and her ability to
navigate the world and takepeople with her and it really
made me curious about, first ofall, the way we view submission
(11:16):
and when that became a big deal.
And he seemed so proud of thefact that that was not a way to
describe his grandmother and Ijust was really impressed by
that.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Right Well, and I think we've had similar
conversations about our owngrandmother.
I mean, she had her own wayabout her.
But I suspect that theinfluence of evangelicalism,
(11:48):
influence of evangelicalism,fundamentalism in the mid-20th
century took some of thosecultural norms and just cranked
them up a bit and added theweight of spirituality and a
moral and even deeper moralweight than what would have
already been there in theculture.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
True, and you mentioned too that our
grandmother had her own.
She had her own Exactly, andshe walked to her own beat, but
she would turn over in her graveif we would suggest she wasn't
submissive.
Yes, that's true, which isfascinating.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
One of the moments that stood out to me.
It wasn't huge in significance,this is more in conversation,
but our dad was there and he washaving a conversation with a
friend from fourth grade,someone he hadn't seen since
fourth grade, and they werechatting and it was really sweet
(12:42):
to see how they remembered eachother and it made me wonder
what else was going on.
But one of the things she saidwell, they were saying these
nice things to each other youknow about.
Oh, I remember this about you.
I remember that about you, andI said that it reminded me of
the saying that we don'tremember what others say.
(13:03):
We remember how they made usfeel something like that and
that really seemed tocharacterize their memories.
But what she was saying was thatshe felt badly.
She's felt badly ever sincefourth grade because she had
tattled on him at some point andhe had to stay in for recess or
(13:23):
something.
He got punished for it and shehas felt bad about having done
that ever since.
Do y'all remember what it wasthat he said?
Because then we were wondering,like what did he do?
What did she tattle?
Speaker 3 (13:37):
on him, for he called her by her name Hossa Filla.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
That's a pants filler for anyone who's not conversant
in Pennsylvania Dutch.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
You know what else is weird about these family
gatherings that I wasn'texpecting is, all of a sudden,
you enter the room as an adultPeople that you previously might
have experienced as a kid andwe were the younger people there
.
We were absolutely the youngerpeople in the room and people
(14:10):
who absolutely were aninfluential part of your
childhood, good or bad.
You were now yeah, yeah, therewere some people there as an
authority figure.
You were now on a level playingfield and it was fascinating.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, you could feel a shift, or there was a shift,
or maybe that was just in ourheads, but anyway, it was
different.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
It was different and I think it would be really
interesting.
Well, first of all, it made meaware of of you know, at some
point I'll probably be the oldperson in the room at a family
gathering too and how that isgoing Like.
That's kind of the circle oflife, and how does that feel?
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, so wonder if anyone had any moments that
maybe reinforced what theyalready knew about our family or
, you know, had some hunch aboutour family.
We've already talked about the,the unsubmissive women, that
trait but what about anythingelse that resonated or maybe
(15:18):
helped explain a long standingfamily dynamic?
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I thought the story of the missing fingers and how
much that seemed to be a traitof our family was kind of
fascinating.
The story was that mygreat-grandfather was bragging
to my father about how close hecould get to a table saw without
yeah, to the saw blade, withoutcutting his fingers and in the
(15:45):
process whacked off too.
And as I was hearing the story,I leaned over to my husband and
I'm like there you have it.
Did we have uncles that lost aswell, or was that?
And I have a brother who lost afinger too.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
But that was a thing that came through and I don't
know if this is reflective of atime period or reflective of a
family, but there were quite afew stories of people who had
lost limbs or digits because ofworking in the sawmill industry.
And so I mean I don't know, Idon't know if it's unique to the
(16:24):
family or if it's just commonfor the time period, but I think
also Feldy Pop, ourgreat-grandfather, he not only
lost those two fingers but helost other fingers as well.
Right, I don't remember thosedetails.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Why do I think that they said he died with two
fingers on one hand and three onthe other?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
I don't know what all the incidents that happened,
but I do know some years afterhe lost those fingers in a saw
he was trying to clean up oatsgoing into an auger and got
another digit hung up and it was.
It was pretty bad.
He wanted his wife or hisdaughter to bring the pruning
(17:03):
hook so he could cut it off andthey refused and they insisted
he goes to see the doctor buteventually it turned black and
he got his whip had to be takenoff, but not by the pruning hook
Right, who knows.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Maybe he thought that they just kind of grow back in.
Who knows can, who knows?
The other thing that I thinkabout is kids really did work
hard at a younger age.
I mean, that was the case withmy brother.
(17:38):
He was working with equipmentthat was way too big for him,
from my memory.
That's what, and I think whenwe I think it's easy for us to
forget that farm accidents are areal thing and they can really
be dangerous and child laborlaws are important.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
And also in that time period when those pieces of
equipment were being made, theyprobably did not have much in
the way of guard blade guards.
Safety procedures were not abig deal, and I find it
fascinating that the word isthat all 10 of those sons were
pretty easygoing guys.
(18:15):
So I don't know how that playsin necessarily with losing
fingers, but they seemed prettychill.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And adventurous.
Well, and also adventurous, Imean, maybe they they weren't
risk averse.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
I mean, or it seems they were willing to take risks,
but they also yeah, they, theyalso had a um seem to have a
reputation for being well-liked,for getting along well with
people, for having a sense ofhumor, having the ability to
communicate well, and I thinkthat's an interesting trait,
(18:52):
because that's not alwayspresent in these kinds of
situations that you're talkingabout.
Also, speaking of children,while 10 of the children did
survive to adulthood, we alsolearned about a set of twins
that were born at some point whodid not survive, and it was
(19:15):
because of the cold that thecabin they were in, from what we
understand, was built out ofgreen wood, and so the wood
shrank and that left all thesecracks in the wall.
And then there was winter, andwe're not sure was that.
Some were saying that cabin waslocated in Somerset,
pennsylvania, but then also thefamily was in Ohio, and so I
(19:37):
know people moved, we knowpeople moved around, but
wherever it was, the twinsdidn't survive, which is really
unfortunate.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
And some books would suggest that it actually
happened in Farmerstown, Ohio,and I drive past or through
Farmerstown on my way to work,so it's kind of strange to think
that five generations ago theywere here.
Like it's weird, Like yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Your ancestors were here struggling for survival.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Your ancestors were here struggling for survival.
I like that, or I think it'sreally cool that you live in an
area where you have ancestorsfor generations back.
Sometimes we think we have togo to Europe where they came
from, and while I love thatfeeling of walking down a street
over there and thinking ourancestors were here, we have
that here too Nine generations.
(20:24):
That's kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
So what were some of the questions that came up as we
were listening to the stories,and what were the things that we
wanted to that we wish we couldknow more about?
Speaker 3 (20:39):
When they were talking about Mary, our great
great-grandmother yes,great-great.
The question I have is what didshe do to raise those 10 sons,
to appreciate her leadership andit seems to have been passed
down through the generationsbecause we hear about other
strong women who were greatleaders and were admired.
(21:03):
Those 10 sons obviously had todo things that if they'd have
had a bunch of sisters, theywould not have been doing, and I
like to think that that shapedthe way that they perceived
women and their daughters.
But that's a question I wouldlove to ask, mary what did you
tell your sons?
How did you communicate withthem?
(21:24):
What was your experience?
Because those are the kinds ofthings that I like to ask
grandmothers.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Right, and there were also stories of her sons having
a sense of humor and a sense ofawareness which in the early
1900s would be like.
I mean, we think of us beingprogressive today and aware and
learning all these things andit's like, well, maybe they knew
what was going on back then too.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
They were self-reflective and seemed to
have the ability to attune andcommunicate and be emotionally
intelligent.
Yeah, were there any storiesthat felt sanitized or overly
nostalgic?
Yeah, I'll be honest, I didn'thear as many as I thought I
might.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
The one I thought about, and this wasn't directly
in our line, but in the familyof eight sons there was one who
ended up leaving the Amishchurch, and he had a descendant
that was there, and she wasamazing, she was sweet, she was
adorable, and it was interesting, though, because she kept
(22:29):
talking about how he left thecommunity and I I was reminded,
and she talked about how much ofit was a honor and a privilege
to be able to connect withfamily that she didn't know
about, and in that story shesaid she had known, before
becoming kind of connected withthe reunion, the folks
(22:50):
organizing the reunion in thelast few years.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
she knew she had Amish relatives and she would
joke about it as she drovearound Ohio like, oh there's my
Amish cousins, and not reallyexpecting to ever actually meet
some of her Amish cousins, whichnow she has.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
In that I was just curious, like what's the story
that's not being told?
And when is it appropriate tostart talking about maybe the
damaging effects that happen inshunning or in disowning and
what that does to futuregenerations?
And did that happen?
Right right, was that the case?
(23:29):
You would, I would assume, ifthey kind of lost touch as a
family perhaps, but but maybenot necessarily.
So yeah, I don't know.
I was just really curious aboutthat, like I was like what part
of the store is not being toldthere?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
No, I agree.
And then this afternoon afterthe reunion, our mom and dad
came over here.
Rebecca invited our mom and dadover and we were hanging out
and going through a bin of oldletters from grandma, which was
really cool.
But it was an opportunity toask my dad about our aunt Lydia
(24:04):
who left, and I think we'vementioned her before on the
podcast.
And I think we've mentioned herbefore on the podcast, but I
was curious about that becauseshe had left the Amish tradition
and we knew her as HolinessPentecostal, how she managed,
how she seemed so accepted bythe family even though she had
(24:25):
left the tradition.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
So dad explained that she had left the tradition with
her husband and he said it wasjust never a thing right.
Well, actually, from what Iunderstand, it wasn't unusual.
At that point.
There were a number of peoplewho left the Amish Mennonite
tradition and joined some kindof a Pentecostal church.
It was a season when a lot ofthat was happening, so it wasn't
like they were the only onesdoing that some kind of a
(25:09):
Pentecostal church.
It was a season when a lot ofthat was happening, so it wasn't
like they were the only onesdoing that.
So I don't know if you wouldcall it a time of spiritual
renewal I don't know if that'sthe correct term for it, but
there was.
I think it was the time maybewhen people were just making a
lot of changes, and so it wasn'tunusual for her to be doing
(25:30):
that.
She wasn't the only one.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Okay, okay, that makes sense.
That makes sense, although Ijust can't help but notice the
difference between the way thatdad described the reaction to
her leaving and the way I thinkthat kind of thing would go down
today.
Anyway, that's just kind of.
It was just interesting to getthat clarification from him,
(25:54):
since I was just working from myperception of things as a child
.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
So this great aunt that we're talking about.
Her name was Lydia and she AuntLydia.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Not Lydia.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I mean, maybe that's what it said on her birth
certificate, but she was AuntLydia, Not Lydia I mean, maybe
that's what it said on her birthcertificate, but she was Aunt
Lydia and so she would have beenBeldy Pop's daughter and wrote
many letters back and forth toour grandma Irene, and I have
some of those letters and wewere reading through them today.
And, um, lydia was talking aboutbeing at an amish funeral and
(26:33):
she was talking about how herand lizzie is that another
sister, a friend, were there andthey were the only ones who
were in amish, except for oneother person, I guess, because
she was criticizing the lengthof that skirt that she had on,
but yet she was.
Was also kind of pointing outhow some of the other people
there look like nuns, and I justkind of had to chuckle because
(26:57):
we just don't stop doing that,do we?
I mean, like we've all heardthat, we've all done that, we've
all been part of that game, andI just had to laugh at how
human nature is just humannature.
It doesn't matter if it's inthe early 1900s, it doesn't
matter if it is in the 60s or2025.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Here we are, yeah, evaluating or critiquing or
making observations about peoplebased on appearances.
So we're talking about ourdifferent impressions and the
way that stories, that parts ofstories, are lost or can be
forgotten, and I think thosegaps are.
(27:41):
I think we go, we participatein reunions and this kind of
thing in a search for the puzzlepieces to fill in those gaps,
to fill in those questions.
Were there any other gaps thateither of you noticed, of things
that weren't said, or silences,things that were missed?
Speaker 3 (28:02):
One of the things that I noticed.
I've seen it in accounts offamily history and we alluded to
the fact that it was mentionedat the reunion too.
We have great ancestors, butthe women, the women's stories
are really quiet and I find thatsad and I also have found
(28:26):
myself really passionate aboutseeking out those stories.
I want to know what, even ifit's tiny little pieces of the
puzzle.
I want to know what partspeople do know and put them
together, because those mothers,they shaped the future every
bit as much as those fathers did, the future every bit as much
(28:47):
as those fathers did.
And it's one thing to mentionit and say, yeah, the women
weren't very well.
You know, we don't talk verymuch about what they did, and
then even in the family historybooks when it's mentioned, then
there's another it's mentioned.
(29:10):
Oh, you know, we don't give themothers enough credit and then
it's all about the dad.
So that's one of my passions isto find those pieces.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
So what are you going to do to fix it?
You have a passion.
What are you going to do to fixit?
Speaker 3 (29:18):
I would love to do all the interviews I can and I
would love to put it in bookform.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
I think you should do it.
I think that would be great.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
So a heads up to our listeners.
We're teasing a project that wehope to tell you more about
after a while.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
And I think it's so important because so I have
three kids.
None of my kids have the samemother and by getting these
stories, it represents so manydifferent pieces of who even
just one person is and howdifferent people experience
different people.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
And even among ourselves.
You know we've talked about ourimpressions of our grandmother.
We all have as many differentexperiences as there are, you
know, different individuals ofus.
So putting all those piecestogether just gives us a very
well-rounded picture of a personand who they are.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Right, and I think it's also fascinating to kind of
dive into perhaps why differentpeople have different
experiences and the events andthe situations that maybe shape
some of those types of things.
My grandma, irene would havebought me my first pair of
(30:38):
little black Mary Jane shoes.
I was so proud of those shoes.
I spent most of my lifebarefoot and then when I did
actually have shoes, I had likeone pair of tennis shoes for I
was probably seven or eight andshe bought me this pair of black
Mary Janes.
It wasn't until you guyspointed out years later and
you're absolutely right she hada bunch of used shoes that were
(31:02):
given to her that she would havetypically just turned around
and gave to someone and madethem wear it, whether it was a
size too big or too small, butyet she bought me a new pair,
like what the heck?
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Hang on.
You got a new pair of shoesfrom grandma.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
She took me into the Lewisburg Kmart and I maybe
stood in front of the shoe racktoo long just gazing at them
Like I might have done somethinglike that.
It was Murphy.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Mart.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Oh, it was Murphy Mart.
You're right, it was MurphyMart.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Murphy Mart was down in Sealands Grove.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
You're right, You're right.
It was Murphy Mart.
I just remember standing thereand just gazing at those shoes
and she's like why don't we getyou a pair?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Are we talking about the same grandmother?
Because I also remember wearinga dress with a zipper in it and
at the time zippers were kindof the innovative thing in our
little bubble and I guesstraditionally it would have been
buttons.
And which is such a complicatedhistory with buttons?
(32:05):
Buttons on the back of littlegirls' dresses were okay On the
front of adult dresses, bad Onthe front of men's shirts.
Totally fine.
There's just no logic to it.
Anyway, that's beside the point.
The point is I have a veryclear memory of wearing a dress
with a zipper down the back.
It was one of the first times.
(32:27):
And walking in the walk and therocks were, it was kind of the
rough times.
And walking in the walk and therocks were, it was kind of the
rough walk.
There was some broken concreteand falling and skinning my knee
and hearing grandma say it wasbecause of the zipper in the
dress that you fell down.
And you know and I say thatwith absolutely no resentment or
(32:47):
knowing her in the context ofwho she was it makes sense to me
she had many sides.
She's a complicated characterand was very loving and many,
many warm memories of her.
But it's just to say that herbuying a child a pair of shoes
just because the kid wanted themwas not something she was doing
(33:10):
every day of the week, and Ithink you had a special status
that, yeah, the rest of usdidn't know about.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, I have been really curious about that
Because for many years I thoughtabout it.
I love the memory and all that,but I never thought about how
unusual it was.
But you're very right, For manyyears there, the devil was in
the zipper.
The devil's not the detail, thedevil is in the zipper.
(33:39):
That was a real thing and Ialso think it's funny.
I mean I knew it, but afterreading these letters from her
sister, her sister really sawthe devil behind every bush and
she was all into the end timesand I mean this was, this was,
and so I wonder how much thatinfluenced her too.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Right, right, yeah, her sister would send her a
bunch of tracts and they were inthis box and I scanned some of
the ones with provocative titlesand one of my favorites was the
most dangerous dope of our time, or something like that.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
And guys, there's tracks in there from Ken Ham.
How old is Ken Ham?
Like Ken Ham, I cannot believeI have his literature in my
house.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
That must have been early 90s.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
I think so I think the most.
There were maybe a fewpostcards from 96.
I think that was, but therewere also letters dating back to
the 70s, so yeah, and even atiny little notebook dating back
to the 30s.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
That's right, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah, I started scanning a bunch of those things
and it's the ephemera of dailylife that at the time most
probably didn't thinksignificant.
Most of us wouldn't.
We don't keep our to do listsusually and yet it's.
It's so interesting to go back.
For example, there was ascratch pad and I was looking
(35:07):
through the scratch pad and camealong a list of names with the
numbers next to them and figuredout that it was her Sunday
dinner plans and it was herguest list for a Sunday dinner,
probably in about 1975.
And so my mom and I were goingthrough and trying to work out
who those individuals, who thosefamilies, would have been.
(35:29):
Even though I wouldn't havebeen born at that time yet, it
brought back memories of thatbig dining room and the big
farmhouse.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
And 30 guests around her Sunday dinner table.
No problem, Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah, yeah.
So were there any particularparts of family story or
patterns that we want to honorand preserve, or patterns that
we want to honor and preserve,even if our daily lives look
very different from theancestors of the stories we were
hearing about?
What are some of the themesthat struck either of you as
(36:04):
traits worth preserving?
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Well, this is just going back to Grandma Irene
worth preserving.
Well, this is just going backto Grandma Irene.
Hospitality was just completelynormal for her.
You know she had people overfor meals.
She welcomed people into herhome.
I have so many memories of oldneighbor ladies sitting in the
hickory rocker beside her bigwood stove in the big kitchen.
(36:27):
They just came and sat there.
She might go on working, shemight be in and out of the house
doing her things and thoselittle old ladies were just
sitting there rocking.
And there's something abouthaving that kind of a welcoming
presence.
There must have been somethingabout her, something about her
energy that just attracted theselittle old ladies who just
(36:52):
needed to be in a safe space.
And she had this big bustlingfarmhouse.
It was a farm, there werepeople in and out, she had
grandchildren in and out and itwas a welcoming space.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
You know, that's kind of where my mind was going to,
and I think it was particularlyunusual because it seemed like
during that time the churches Iwas a part of, and even that she
was a part of, tend to kind ofclose themselves off from the
(37:23):
outside world, like prettyisolated, and yet somehow she
managed to have a hugeconnection to the outside world
and was some of that from herworking.
Like didn't she go to theLewisburg Farm Market every week
and didn't she have a standthere for a lot of yes,
(37:44):
everyone's nodding their heads,and this was like a thing she
did religiously.
I remember her buying mefireballs.
Wow, you didn't get fireballs,we maybe did.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Yeah, yes, I do remember fireballs.
They were like five cents.
Yes, yes, yes, I do rememberthose.
Yeah, yes, well, you know, whenshe was growing up in Virginia
Beach, from the time she was 13to 21, she went to market for
her parents.
She missed two weeks in thattime period, and so I think it
was perfectly normal that whenshe moved to Lewisburg she went
(38:18):
to farmer's market too.
And think of all theconnections she made.
She got to know a lot of peoplethat way.
She was just a friendly person.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
She was friendly and spicy.
She was person.
She was friendly and spicy shewas.
And for the record, if anyonecares, when she was the young
teen at the farmer's market andthis would have been in the
early 30s, right she sold adozen of eggs for 35 cents.
Just so you know.
I thought that was kind ofimportant.
That's what I learned from mylittle box of letters and
(38:47):
receipts.
But yeah, I agree, and I thinkthe thing that's also
fascinating is Feldy Pop wasfairly well to do and Irene was
a little Southern belle whoactually married down.
So our grandpa would have beenfrom a more poor family.
So she, her, my, our grandpawould have been from a poor,
(39:08):
more poor family, and I've oftenthought about that dynamic.
She wasn't necessarily spoiledin the sense of she didn't like
go buy stuff.
She was a cheapskate and shesaved everything, but yet she
was very brand conscious.
Like you had nothing butBechtel's ice cream.
Like you would never buy cheapice cream or cheap grape juice,
(39:43):
or even like, wasn't she reallypicky about her tinfoil and
saran wrap?
Like the very brand consciousabout that?
But she washed was like she wasvery committed and insistent on
particular brands, but yet shesaved everything.
It wasn't like she was just outhaving a party and spending
money.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Extravagance was not her thing at all.
She was very thoughtful andintentional.
The expensive things she boughtwere for completely practical
purposes.
She could can and bake, Herhome had all the essentials and
those things were going to last.
But she was not buying thingsthat were just frivolous.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Except apparently every now and then she would buy
a brand new shiny black pair ofMary Janes for a grandchild who
knew oh, there was that storyabout Peg Latin that we heard.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Margaret, do you want to tell that story?
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Oh yes, so our aunt said that when she was a little
girl they lived in a doublehouse, so our great grandparents
lived on one side, Ourgrandparents' family lived on
the other side.
So it was very lived on oneside, our grandparents' family
lived on the other side.
So it was very common for thechildren to go back and forth.
So the grandparents had secrets.
They of course needed someprivacy and they would speak Pig
(41:01):
Latin.
So the grandchildren didn'tknow everything that was going
on.
Well, as most childreneventually figure out, my aunt
figured out what they weresaying.
She could understand them andshe told them that she
understands.
Did she like repeat their wholesaying?
(41:25):
And so, as she says, the PigLatin pretty much stopped when
they figured out that thechildren are onto this.
This is not the way to haveprivacy anymore.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
And what did you say about your own memories of Pig
Latin oh this is true.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
So my grandma also spoke Pig Latin and as a child I
was so tickled the day Ifigured out what she was saying,
I could understand what she'ssaying.
And then I told her what shewas saying and I remember her
just looking at me and that wasthe end of the Pig Latin.
And for years and years I wasjust like why didn't I just be
(42:03):
quiet?
Why did I have to sayeverything?
And then I heard my aunt haddone the same thing to her
grandma and I realized, hey, I'ma normal child.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
So I realized I don't think my kids know what Pig
Latin is.
Do your kids know what PigLatin is?
Yeah, I think they have a joke,I think our audience wants you
to speak to us in Pig Latin.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
I love I Lila Fike washing, wash-aha Fashing.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
I don't know, I love Fie.
I think La Fink that La Fat youLa Foo, like, like, like La
Fike, two La Foo, one La Wash.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Two La Fishes.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
And I don't know that .
I even know I love Fie.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
It's adding something to every syllable.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yes, yes, yes.
And how?
And how do you know what we'readding?
Speaker 3 (42:50):
I think you just kind of go with what.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Oh I think lefi between syllables.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
Every syllable.
Yeah, see the At the end ofevery syllable the vowels change
.
Oh, I lefi do lefu li lefikralofakers.
Any linguists out there thatwant to explain Pig Latin to us?
I La.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Fie Do La Foo.
Lila Fike Krala Fackers.
Any linguists out there thatwant to explain pig Latin to us
Help?
Speaker 3 (43:15):
us out.
We are truly getting bored.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Trying to figure out our grandma's secrets.
That's what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
And so, as we reflect on this, what are some
takeaways?
In terms of the value ofattending a family reunion, we
know that well.
Speaking for myself, I wouldn'thave attended if it hadn't been
for the unique set ofcircumstances around the reunion
.
Otherwise, I had no intentionof coming and, as we said, we
(43:46):
were the young, we were thespring chickens there, and we
can understand how difficult itcan be when you're raising kids.
Your family has their owntravel schedule.
There's so many differentdemands on our time and energy.
Going to a family reunion tosee third cousins that we've
(44:07):
never met before can seem likesomething that goes at the
bottom of the to-do list of ourpriorities.
And so what are some thoughtsabout the value of these kinds
of events?
I know for myself I ended upenjoying it a lot more than I
thought I would, but what doy'all think?
Speaker 2 (44:25):
So I would kind of be with you.
I don't necessarily like groups, so that would be a good excuse
right there to stay away.
And I think for those of us whohave in any way been shunned or
disowned, it's easy to beunsure of where we belong or if
(44:48):
we belong, and I think it mightbe wise to at least consider
letting go of some of that andto attend these events with
curiosity, to ask questions andto kind of just let things be,
not attempting to worship ourancestors or to create history
(45:14):
that wasn't, but to simplyappreciate and hold what was.
It's a part of our past, it's apart of who we are good or bad
and to understand that that'skind of what we're living.
That's what we're living forthose who come after us too, and
I think it's just really kindof a neat way of not just
(45:38):
honoring the past but also thefuture and the present.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Before I came east for this reunion, I was having a
conversation with my son and Iwas talking to him about some of
the things I had found outabout my great-grandfather and
he said you know, I want toleave a legacy like that too.
So, coming to a reunion likethis, where you don't
necessarily know very manypeople, but there's a sense of
(46:02):
belonging, because none of uschose to be part of this family,
but we belong, and there's ahuman need for belonging and
it's not am I good enough or not.
It's.
I am a descendant.
That's not changing.
But, like you were talkingabout, you know the future.
(46:22):
I think it's great to look atthese people and go, wow, I want
to be like that or I don't wantto be like that.
And when we admire those people, I'm saying the same thing,
really, that you did in my ownwords I just like the idea of
being reminded about.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
What do I want my children, my great-grandchildren
, to say about me?
No, I agree, and I think somereunions or, you know, heritage
celebrations, right, can turninto a form of hero worship or
ancestor worship, or at leastkind of the sense of almost
exclusivity, and I think it'swonderful to be able to admire
those in our past withoutdemonizing anyone else, right.
(47:05):
Or saying, you know, to valueour past doesn't have to mean
devaluing anybody else right.
And so I think that another oneof the benefits of learning
about these parts of our pastyou mentioned, margaret, the
hospitality.
I think that's really valuable.
(47:39):
There was a mention of thepacifism that's in our tradition
.
Where we live, or because ofour working lives and being
pulled in many differentdirections and maybe not having
time for social relationshipslike we'd like, it's important
to be reconnected and to bereminded of those who
demonstrated hospitality, whoexcelled at hospitality, those
(48:04):
who had strong relationships andconnections within their
communities, and I think it canremind us of how that has been
done and how we can do thatagain, and it can inspire us to
bring something to ourcommunities as they are today,
something that's really neededand really valuable, and it can
(48:26):
bring greater connection to ourdaily lives and then pass that
on down.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
So anything else before we wrap up I think one
more thing that I think is kindof important is you know, we
have situations where where racewas not always dealt with well
in our history, there were timeswhere well-intentioned
(48:55):
spiritual abuse happened, and Ithink that it's important to
acknowledge and be honest aboutthose situations and also give
our kids space to be honestabout the ways we drop the ball
Because I were simply human andcorrect the patterns that were
(49:15):
started and somehow find ways toboth heal and maybe ways to
(49:47):
redeem that, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
I agree, I agree, and I think that's a way that we
can dare to look at the darkersides.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
We can dare to look at the parts that would be
easier to gloss over if we seethem as an opportunity to grow
and repair and and repair, andbe brave enough to speak up
about it and and to find ways togently ask those older than
what you are those questions to,to gently, um, to gently dig a
(50:21):
little bit deeper and and Ithink in some ways you want to
like you've had those questions,you've had those observations,
but it's easy to doubt yourselfand think that you're just kind
of making things up.
And if you can find ways togently ask those questions, I
think sometimes it bringsclarity but it also gives space
for change Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
So at the reunion there were some artifacts from
the family different familymembers brought and I'll drop
links to some of those pics inthe show notes.
Also a pic of our branch of thefamily that was there.
We had initially thought wewere going to be seeing a lot of
our aunts and uncles, so thenit didn't work out for as many
(51:06):
to come as we'd expected, but itwas those of us who were there.
We represented the Feldy Pupline and we'll put that picture
in the show notes.
So as we tell and retell thesestories, we're not just
preserving history, we'reshaping how we understand
ourselves and to our listeners.
Whether you come from atight-knit family or one that
(51:27):
barely speaks, there's power inknowing what came before you and
in asking those questions thatRebecca was just talking about.
And sometimes there's even morepower in deciding which parts
you're ready to leave behind andwhich parts you want to take
forward and how you want to dothat.
(51:47):
So thank you so much forspending time with us today.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
If you are in the Dee Dee Miller line or if you're in
the Felty Pop line, save thedate.
I guess we're going to be inSarasota in two years.
We have a group on Facebookthat we can add you to and make
plans to join us, because wethink you should be there too.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
And I couldn't help but think what are the things
that or how could a reunion likethat be structured or shaped or
designed to make it moreinviting, more compelling for
those of us, the youngergeneration, those of us who have
not yet retired?
And if anybody has ideas forthat, send them in.
(52:35):
I mean, I'm not on the planningcommittee, but I can pass it on
to somebody who is so.
Thanks so much for joining ustoday, and now we're going to go
have seconds of strawberryfluff.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
Thank you for spending time with us today.
The resources and materialswe've mentioned are linked in
the show notes and on Facebookat Uncovered Life Beyond.
What are?
Speaker 1 (53:03):
your thoughts about college and recovery from high
demand religion.
We know you have your ownquestions and experiences and we
want to talk about the topicsthat matter to you.
Share them with us atuncoveredlifebeyond at gmailcom.
That's uncoveredlifebeyond atgmailcom.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
If you enjoyed today's show and found value in
it, please rate and review it onyour favorite podcast app.
This helps others find the showWhile you're there.
Subscribe to our podcast so younever miss an episode Until
next time.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
stay brave, stay bold , stay awkward.
Thank you,
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